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Speaker 1: Music saved me.

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Speaker 2: I'm len Hoffman, and today music saved me.

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Speaker 1: We are sitting down with Rain Mada, the voice behind

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Speaker 1: our Lady Piece, and a man who spent three decades

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Speaker 1: turning pain into poetry, anxiety into anthems, and personal struggle

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Speaker 1: into songs that have saved countless others. From the raw

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Speaker 1: intensity of Navide to becoming one of Canada's most passionate

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Speaker 1: advocates for change. Rain hasn't just survived the music industry,

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Speaker 1: He's used music to survive period.

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Speaker 2: But before we.

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Speaker 1: Jump in with Rain, if you're loving these conversations about

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Speaker 1: music and how it heals and rescues and transforms lives, first,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much. And second, would you do us

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Speaker 1: a favor and open up the Apple podcast app and

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Speaker 1: leave us a five star rating and review? It would

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Speaker 1: be so awesome. It takes like thirty seconds and it

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Speaker 1: helps us reach more people who need to hear these stories.

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Speaker 1: And I'm serious when I say that your review could

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Speaker 1: be the reason that someone, even just one person, discovers

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Speaker 1: the song or the story that saves them.

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Speaker 2: And that's why we're doing this.

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Speaker 1: All right, Buckle up, get ready for the wonderfully, honest,

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Speaker 1: beautifully vulnerable and maybe a little clumsy, because that's where

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Speaker 1: the real magic happens. Rain Mada, He's here and he's

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Speaker 1: next on music, Save Me, Don't Go Anywhere. Music saved

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Speaker 1: me growing up in Western Ontario. What was your first

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Speaker 1: meaningful connection to music and was there a specific, like

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Speaker 1: aha moment when you realize that music could be more

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Speaker 1: than just entertainment and fun.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's a great question. I it's funny.

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Speaker 3: Like my first concert ever was Van Halen in nineteen

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Speaker 3: eighty four on that nineteen eighty four tour, and it

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Speaker 3: was wild, like it was I got hot, you know,

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Speaker 3: it was the first time I'd been to a rock

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Speaker 3: and roll concert like that in an arena. You know,

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Speaker 3: there's a lot of pot smoking on, so I got

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Speaker 3: like secondary high. The show was nominal, like David Roth

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Speaker 3: had he's knived and he's jumping around on stage. It

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Speaker 3: was it was so entertaining that I walked away. I

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Speaker 3: was like, oh my goodness, I never knew I never

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Speaker 3: knew me and Van Halen was kind of that kind

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Speaker 3: of band. But then about I think about six weeks later,

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Speaker 3: I saw Peter Gabriel and it was so different, you know,

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Speaker 3: it was like this. It was as musical, but it

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Speaker 3: was it wasn't entertainment. It was I don't and I

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Speaker 3: don't want to say it was serious. But he spoke

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Speaker 3: about like Amnesty International, and he spoke about green peace,

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Speaker 3: and he talked about just things that really mattered to

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Speaker 3: him personally, and it was like this really amazing global

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Speaker 3: view that it really made this difference to me in

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Speaker 3: terms of there is entertainment, which is amazing because I

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Speaker 3: love Ben Halen, but there also was this more kind

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Speaker 3: of like consciousness towards music that could could thought it

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Speaker 3: was preachy, but it was like you could have this

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Speaker 3: platform as well that went beyond music, and so that

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Speaker 3: was kind of like a ha moment for me for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I actually didn't ever see him back then, but more

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Speaker 1: recently he did the show in the Round Peter Gabriel,

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Speaker 1: and that was like incredible.

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Speaker 2: He makes you think like.

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Speaker 3: You said, yeah, yeah, he's just like yeah, he's just

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Speaker 3: this figure that really transformed me in whatever. The two

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Speaker 3: and a half hours that he played, I walked out

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Speaker 3: of there literally like I walked out of Van Hale

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Speaker 3: and like with a smile on my face. Contact high, yeah,

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Speaker 3: contact guy, and the show was incredible, But with Peter Gabriel,

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Speaker 3: it felt like, oh, I think I found some purpose.

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Speaker 2: That's cool.

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Speaker 1: That's a great story because a lot of people would

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Speaker 1: explain more something they heard at their home or watched

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Speaker 1: on TV. But you were actually there. It hit you

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Speaker 1: when you were at a show before our lady piece

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Speaker 1: took off? What were you going through personally? That made

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Speaker 1: music feel like a lifeline rather than maybe just a

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Speaker 1: passion of yours.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I've ever told

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Speaker 3: this story. My wife and I have a book coming on.

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Speaker 3: I tell it in the book where I just my

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Speaker 3: parents had got divorced and I was sent away to

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Speaker 3: school and I hated the school and I was really struggling.

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Speaker 3: But I had I had all these CDs with me

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Speaker 3: and it was Peter Gabriel and it was Springsteen, and

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Speaker 3: it was The Stones and Neil Young and Rush Exit

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Speaker 3: Stage Left and just you know, a box of CDs.

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Speaker 3: So at night I was able to like just dive

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Speaker 3: into music and it was like early U two and

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Speaker 3: r EM and I just that became my religion, and

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Speaker 3: it really it really became something that was like we

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Speaker 3: all love those bands and those records, but the idea

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Speaker 3: of the lyric for me and a bunch of those

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Speaker 3: artists became became religion and really started to make me

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Speaker 3: feel like, you know what this is because I always

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Speaker 3: loved creative writing growing up, but I I wasn't going

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Speaker 3: to like be a poet, and I want you know,

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Speaker 3: I know, I don't know if I was going to

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Speaker 3: be a writer. But listening to those lyrics, I felt like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: this is this is something where I can direct, like

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Speaker 3: my feelings, my emotions, express myself and music felt like, wow,

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Speaker 3: this could be like a viable thing where I could

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Speaker 3: really tell my story, which was interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it.

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Speaker 1: Could be a slippery slope as well, because if you

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Speaker 1: do what you love for a living, there's that fine

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Speaker 1: line you walk of like ruining the love of it,

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Speaker 1: you know, because it's work.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I know, I agree, You're right, You're right

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Speaker 3: for sure.

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Speaker 2: Not taking anything away from it. But it was always

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Speaker 2: the worry.

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Speaker 1: I think everyone I know who was in music, they

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Speaker 1: were always concerned that if they made it their full

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Speaker 1: time job that they would hate it.

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Speaker 2: And it would ruin it for them.

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Speaker 1: My brother being one of them and so talented, I

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Speaker 1: used to always try to get them, come on, you

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Speaker 1: can do this.

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Speaker 2: But I understand that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's interesting. I would just say one

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Speaker 3: thing for me, it was like when I finally tapped

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Speaker 3: into it, I don't think there was anything else I

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Speaker 3: could do. Like I think that became it was such

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Speaker 3: a pull to me in terms of this is like

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Speaker 3: and you know, and not to be cliche, but it

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Speaker 3: was like saving me. So I just felt like that

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Speaker 3: was that was the that was the the path that

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Speaker 3: was going to be my journey, like successful or non.

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Speaker 3: I was going to go down that path.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it spoke to your stage name Rain. Your real

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Speaker 1: name is Mike, but it became your identity.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, my full name is Michael Rain Anthony Mada. So

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Speaker 3: I yeah, I chose Rain just because it was like this,

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Speaker 3: it was that period in my life felt like and

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Speaker 3: I know tons of people parents get divorced, but it

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Speaker 3: felt like it had this profound effect on me. And

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Speaker 3: then being away from everything that it was just like

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Speaker 3: I really transitioned into not an adult but more of

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Speaker 3: an artist and in a sense of like that whole

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Speaker 3: thing I described in terms of finding this deep connection

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Speaker 3: with music and then really deciding and I'll straight up

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Speaker 3: like against a lot of people's wishes. I got kicked

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Speaker 3: out of that school because of music. You know, I

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Speaker 3: don't think my dad today still thinks I'm going into

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Speaker 3: like the family business, God bless them, but I'm.

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Speaker 2: Still thinking one day you're gonna change.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, but it's it's one of those things where, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it really allowed me to like okay, but it's seriousness

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Speaker 3: of what I'm doing and saying, hey, like I am,

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Speaker 3: I am transformed, and so that was part of the

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Speaker 3: whole journey.

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Speaker 1: Didn't make it easier for you to express yourself, I think,

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Speaker 1: so being kind of open and stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think like that.

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Speaker 3: It was kind of it sounds like it almost sound corny,

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Speaker 3: but it felt like this rebirth because before that, like

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Speaker 3: most teenagers were all struggling to figure out what our

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Speaker 3: purposes and what we're going to do. But that period

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Speaker 3: for me was it was just profound and like I said,

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Speaker 3: I just went all in on every front.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I feel like you and I are right around the

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Speaker 1: same age too, because all the song, all the albums

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Speaker 1: you mentioned, and you were in your I think in

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Speaker 1: ninety four when you released Navid, you were in your

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Speaker 1: early twenties and I was as well. Was there something

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Speaker 1: that you were trying to work out or you know,

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Speaker 1: escape from when you wrote some of those early songs.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that you know, some of those songs really came

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Speaker 3: back from like my late years in high school and

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Speaker 3: my first years and I was in college in Toronto

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Speaker 3: while we were forming the band, so it was really

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Speaker 3: like it was it was about that whole time period,

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Speaker 3: you know, it was about that kind of like transformation

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Speaker 3: that I was going through. Definitely, you know, songs like

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Speaker 3: Starci transcendental meditation, trying to find myself through these through

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Speaker 3: these different modes of like no, I don't want to

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Speaker 3: say escape in like a terrible way, but really there

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Speaker 3: was some sort of escape there. And I studied martial

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Speaker 3: arts growing up as well, so a lot of the

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Speaker 3: kind of the Eastern methods, some of the breathing techniques

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Speaker 3: and all that stuff. It just felt Navie was probably,

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Speaker 3: to be honest, like one of those most the most

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Speaker 3: spiritual albums we had, because it really felt like that exploration.

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Speaker 3: You know, when you're just starting to explore things, they're

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Speaker 3: so front of mind and then they become part of

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Speaker 3: your deadly practice and you don't really think of them

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Speaker 3: the same. But yeah, it was this great kind of

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Speaker 3: like intersection of music and spirituality for me and really

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Speaker 3: turning into it all getting out on my own, like

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Speaker 3: you know, I was out on the road and I

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Speaker 3: was my own person for the first time.

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Speaker 2: How did you get it?

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Speaker 1: How did how did you turn your inspiration and moment

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Speaker 1: of realization for what you wanted to do with your

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Speaker 1: life into actual practical work.

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Speaker 3: I think it's doing the work. I think, you know,

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Speaker 3: one thing for me was I never wanted to do

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Speaker 3: cover songs, so it was always about and now I

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Speaker 3: love doing them, but back in the day, I was like, no,

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Speaker 3: that's not what I'm about. It's about finding that originality

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Speaker 3: within my self. And that was that was a fascinating journey,

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Speaker 3: just just that in itself, just trying to you know,

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Speaker 3: find your own identity. It was really critical for me,

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Speaker 3: and I think that's what brought a lot of the

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Speaker 3: experimentation on other fronts.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's hard to do.

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Speaker 1: I mean experimenting when you don't even know if you're

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Speaker 1: gonna be successful in the beginning, and then when you

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Speaker 1: are successful, how do you continue to do and you know,

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Speaker 1: write the songs and you know, sell the albums and

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Speaker 1: move forward.

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Speaker 2: That takes a lot.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's when it gets tricky. I think

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Speaker 3: that when I look back on it like that early,

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Speaker 3: those early days, because we'd kind of written some of

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Speaker 3: the v before we get a record deal, that's the

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Speaker 3: best moment because you don't know anything about the business.

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Speaker 3: I didn't really know. I was so naive as like

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Speaker 3: even a songwriter and recording like we you know, we

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Speaker 3: would We paid an engineer, a friend of mine at

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Speaker 3: a studio, but it was like a real studio, and

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Speaker 3: we couldn't afford to go in during the day because

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Speaker 3: those rates were too high. So we'd convinced the engineer, hey,

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Speaker 3: like when that session leaves at like eleven, and we

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Speaker 3: load in at one am and worked till eight am.

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Speaker 3: And so that was the way we started recording na ved.

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Speaker 3: Luckily we got a record deal. So now to finish

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Speaker 3: the album doing like that, because it was brutal, you know, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: But I do look back on it fondly because we

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Speaker 3: didn't know anything, and that's the best it was. Really,

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Speaker 3: You're just writing music. I was trying to speak my

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Speaker 3: mind through lyrics and melodies and not really caring if

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Speaker 3: everyone ever heard. It was really just about, hey, do

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Speaker 3: we all feel that did it kind of when we

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Speaker 3: you know, either recorded it or when we were jamming

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Speaker 3: it out? Did it kind of make the hair in

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Speaker 3: the back of your next stand up? And that was

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Speaker 3: the only the only barometer for like success at that point.

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Speaker 3: Then you have some success, and now things change.

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Speaker 2: Right right right?

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Speaker 1: Well, songs like Clumsy and Superman stead I mean that

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Speaker 1: resonated with millions of people. Were you kind of surprised

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Speaker 1: that all of this personal stuff? I mean, after you

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Speaker 1: make create this art and you put it out there

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Speaker 1: for people to listen to and it resonates with them

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Speaker 1: so much, is that a surprising thing to you at

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Speaker 1: that time? You know, when people out there really are receptive?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think you know you have this

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Speaker 3: there's this amazing moment in art where you write something

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Speaker 3: like I remember I wrote four a M which became

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Speaker 3: a big song for us, even though it was never

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Speaker 3: really a single like the it just happened. And but

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Speaker 3: you know, you're like, oh, there's something here that I

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Speaker 3: really feel strongly about. I got to imagine like other

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Speaker 3: people will as well. But you never want to say

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Speaker 3: that out loud, right, I like you know, especially if

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Speaker 3: you have any sense of humility, and I think with

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Speaker 3: Clumsy there was something there as well, just in terms

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Speaker 3: of man there's just feels like really easy and good.

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Speaker 3: We really think people will feel the same, And it

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Speaker 3: was true. And I've spent some songs along the way

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Speaker 3: where you have those instincts, and I've been wrong as well,

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Speaker 3: but for the most part, you know, it usually translates.

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Speaker 1: Did it Did it change how you looked at being

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Speaker 1: vulnerable in music?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Four Am was really that song because I wrote

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Speaker 3: a specifically about my dad, and I remember I was

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Speaker 3: worried about a showing it to the band, and then

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Speaker 3: I did that. I demoed it up, but I went

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Speaker 3: in early in the studio one morning with the engineer

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Speaker 3: and demoed it myself, presented to the band that afternoon.

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Speaker 3: They all loved it. But then I got this other

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Speaker 3: like thing like do I really want to like, how

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Speaker 3: am I gonna explain this to my dad because I'm

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Speaker 3: actually like calling him out on some things and blaming

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Speaker 3: him for some stuff. And I was like, that's not cool.

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Speaker 3: But for whatever reason, I decided to have a go

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Speaker 3: on the album on Clumsy, and it I think it

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Speaker 3: realized in me this this idea of that vulnerability is

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Speaker 3: what really that's when you really connect with people, Like

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Speaker 3: when you can show that so kind of set the

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Speaker 3: bar for everything else.

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Speaker 1: Being vulnerable and being a guide to that's another right, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and especially at that time, like a lot of the

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Speaker 1: artists that were out felt like everyone was angry, which

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Speaker 1: was right, which was important as well, But that album

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Speaker 1: was not angry.

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Speaker 3: It was what you said, It was much more vulnerable, introspective.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, amazing album.

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Speaker 1: The music industry is like incredibly demanding and that's being nice.

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Speaker 1: Were there moments during our Lady Piece's peak where music

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Speaker 1: became a problem instead of a solution? Did that ever happen?

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Speaker 1: And how did you navigate that? I mean, being with the.

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Speaker 2: Band is like being in a marriage almost.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and being in the business adds another element that

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Speaker 3: has really can be destructive. I think it was for us.

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Speaker 3: Clumsy did really well. We had a bunch of signals

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Speaker 3: and like the touring was off the charts and we

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Speaker 3: were trilie all around the world, and then the expectation

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Speaker 3: is to do it again, and we've Clumsy is very

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Speaker 3: different than the v and then we're we're just it's

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Speaker 3: never been that band that are not like a rinse

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Speaker 3: and repeat band, Like it's always about this experimentation and

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Speaker 3: trying to get away from what we just did. So

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Speaker 3: we feel fulfilled creatively, and especially me as a songwriter,

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Speaker 3: like repeating myself, I'm like, it was cringing to me

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Speaker 3: to do that, where I think a lot of smart

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Speaker 3: artists have done that and been super successful. That wasn't

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Speaker 3: our thing, and so we Yeah, we definitely had moments

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Speaker 3: with a record company where they're expecting us to repeat

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Speaker 3: clumsy and it wasn't. And the next two records were

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Speaker 3: We're far away from that. And so we got back

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Speaker 3: and went to Mali and recorded record called Gravity with

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Speaker 3: Bob Rock, back to like the clumsy success basically if

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Speaker 3: you want to call it that. But then again the

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Speaker 3: next record after Gravity, after like huge singles like Somewhere

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Speaker 3: out There, was totally different. Again, so we've not been

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Speaker 3: the best at navigating the business. I would say in

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Speaker 3: that front.

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Speaker 1: Did it ever cause any issues with the band members

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Speaker 1: or did you all kind of keep it together and

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Speaker 1: stay on this page?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean you have to ask those guys. I

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Speaker 3: think for the most part, my perception is like we

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Speaker 3: went in it together as a band, and we're basically

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Speaker 3: on the same page, you know. I think that's great. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think you know, when things don't do as well

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Speaker 3: as the record before that, you everyone's second guess is stuff.

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Speaker 3: And we had those conversations. But I don't think anyone

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Speaker 3: has any regrets because I think the career arc for

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Speaker 3: us is something we're all really proud of.

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Speaker 4: We'll be right back with more of the Music Saved

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Speaker 4: Me Podcast. Welcome back to the Music Saved Me Podcast.

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Speaker 1: When you're in a dark place or you know, not

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Speaker 1: so happy, does the creative process help you work through

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Speaker 1: it or do you have to get past it, solve

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Speaker 1: it and then write about it.

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Speaker 2: Curious?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question. I've never written a song

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Speaker 3: when I'm happy. I just don't feel I don't know,

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Speaker 3: like it's it's it's it's something about, like you just said,

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Speaker 3: exploring something like turmoil or just something you're curious about

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Speaker 3: in your mind that makes me want to pick up

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Speaker 3: a guitar or sit at the piano. And that's the

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Speaker 3: way it's just always been.

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Speaker 1: Gosh, it's so much better. I mean, when you get

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Speaker 1: upset about something or you're in a bad place it

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Speaker 1: would be. It's so much safer to pick up a

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Speaker 1: guitar sit in front of a piano.

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Speaker 2: Be destructive.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Now, speaking of working with your band earlier, you

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Speaker 1: are married to a woman that I haven't actually had

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Speaker 1: the pleasure of interviewing back in my radio days. Chantal

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Speaker 1: creviasic beautiful on multiple levels. Now, how has a creative partner?

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Speaker 1: Having a creative partner is truly you know, she understands

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Speaker 1: the therapeutic power and the healing power of music and

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Speaker 1: how it's impacted your life.

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Speaker 2: And I how did number one? How does that work?

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Speaker 2: And number two?

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Speaker 1: Was that a cohesive question? And the other thing is

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Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen I read that you two put out it.

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Speaker 1: I'm so fascinated by this, by the way, you put

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Speaker 1: out a documentary called I'm Going to Break Your Heart

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Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen. I've often thought about I've been married

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Speaker 1: a while to a creative partner as well. We're both

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Speaker 1: in the business, and I always thought, you know, what

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Speaker 1: if we did something like that just to share how

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Speaker 1: we make this work, because it's not. It's not a

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Speaker 1: cakewalk life, isn't, you know? So those are It was

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Speaker 1: kind of two questions. One, Yeah, you know, how is

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Speaker 1: working with your wife who you know, having someone who

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Speaker 1: understands all of this business.

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Speaker 2: But also what was that like putting out that documentary.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean she's super creative and she's she has

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Speaker 3: her own career as an artist, but she's also like

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Speaker 3: a top songwriter who's written for like Drake and Kendrick

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Speaker 3: and Gwen and Brittany and all these people over the years.

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Speaker 3: So that part of it is always interesting because it's

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Speaker 3: it's just inspiration. Right when I hear working something that's

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Speaker 3: way outside of even what I'd ever do, you can't

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Speaker 3: help but be curious about that, just in terms of

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Speaker 3: like seeing stuff from instead, Like it's one thing hearing

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Speaker 3: something radio and be like, wow, that's amazing seeing stuff

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Speaker 3: being conceived, Like here she's singing at the piano one day.

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Speaker 3: Maybe I'm walking around on a call and I hear

386
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Speaker 3: something ends up being on a Drake album, Like, oh

387
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Speaker 3: my god, Like, that's that's something you can't pay for,

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Speaker 3: and to you know, it's just a privilege to be

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Speaker 3: in the room for that stuff. But we started to

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Speaker 3: think about, Okay, we do a lot of charity stuff together,

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Speaker 3: and we were on stages and we kind of like

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Speaker 3: do each other's songs, and we finally said, hey, we

393
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Speaker 3: should just at least write a few songs together. So

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Speaker 3: when we did those things, we have something that we

395
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Speaker 3: can say this is ours. We wrote a song called

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Speaker 3: I'm Gonna Break Your Heart, and it was like it

397
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Speaker 3: just poured out of us one night at like two

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Speaker 3: in the morning. Our kids were asleep, our dogs were

399
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Speaker 3: like chill, and the song just came out. I was like,

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Speaker 3: oh my god, this is like one of the favorite

401
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Speaker 3: things I've ever been involved in. You have to like

402
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Speaker 3: actually make a record now, and we tried for a

403
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Speaker 3: couple of years and it just never happened. We just figured, hey,

404
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Speaker 3: even if we get together like this once a week

405
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Speaker 3: for the next few months, we'll get a record done

406
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Speaker 3: and nothing just because it's crazy our careers and kids

407
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Speaker 3: and travel and stuff. And so a friend of ours

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Speaker 3: who's a filmmaker here in LA was just like, look,

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Speaker 3: I've been watching you guys struggle. I know you guys.

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Speaker 3: She's a dear friend. She just said, the only way

411
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Speaker 3: this is going to happen is if you get out

412
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Speaker 3: of La, go somewhere remote, leave the kids and just

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Speaker 3: like commit to like two or three weeks writing without

414
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Speaker 3: any distractions, and she was right. So we went to

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Speaker 3: this little island it's actually owned by France, but it's

416
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Speaker 3: south of coast of Canada, and she said, bring a

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Speaker 3: little film crew. You should document this. It could be

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Speaker 3: really special. So we did. Yeah, so we did that

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Speaker 3: and then we brought we came back and we recorded

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Speaker 3: the record at Rick Rubman's studio here in a melody

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Speaker 3: called Shangri La. But when we started looking at the

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Speaker 3: recording of all the footage, it was like, you get

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Speaker 3: to see how these songs are born, but the reality

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Speaker 3: is like not every It wasn't like hey, han, let's

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Speaker 3: write a song and it just comes out. It was

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Speaker 3: like typically we were away from our kids. We were

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Speaker 3: on this little island in January. It was freezing. Everybody

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Speaker 3: from that island left when we arrived to go to

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Speaker 3: Nice for the winter. They don't want to be there.

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Speaker 3: So like there was only two restaurants open and like

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Speaker 3: one bakery, and we're in this little hotel room. We're like,

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Speaker 3: oh my god, this is the next month. What are

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Speaker 3: were gonna you know, how we're gonna get through this?

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Speaker 3: So there was some emotional shit like some fights and

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Speaker 3: like reconnecting as well. We'd never been away like that

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Speaker 3: by ourselves since we had kids, so it was heavy

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Speaker 3: and we're looking back at the foot. It was like,

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Speaker 3: we can't just show this song finished without showing what

439
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 3: the backstory was. And sometimes the backstories like we got

440
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,200
Speaker 3: in a fight and we had to work it out

441
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:48,400
Speaker 3: and we had cameras there and I didn't real even

442
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,359
Speaker 3: pay attention to them, but just felt like that was

443
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 3: the most authentic thing. So the documentary really became more

444
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:59,119
Speaker 3: about a couple trying to kind of connect creatively, but like,

445
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 3: what is the other bullshit going on?

446
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 1: And I was cool.

447
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 3: I don't think like that was five years earlier. I

448
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:07,119
Speaker 3: might not have been in the same place where I

449
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:08,720
Speaker 3: was like, I can show that part of me. I

450
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,920
Speaker 3: think Chantelle is much easier with that, But I don't know.

451
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:13,639
Speaker 3: It was in a place where like this is really

452
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:15,560
Speaker 3: like Bowie always said, you know, you have to be

453
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,399
Speaker 3: courageous to make real art. I felt like for this

454
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 3: to be art, we had to show that other side

455
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 3: of it, which wasn't pretty, like was pretty sometimes brutal,

456
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 3: Like even looking back on it now, I'm like, oh

457
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 3: my god, I'd sound like such a dickhead.

458
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 2: It's hard, but you say you creating things out of that? Yeah,

459
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 2: that talking earlier.

460
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, So I think we did something really special

461
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,639
Speaker 3: and the documentary has been amazing. Like I said, we

462
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,200
Speaker 3: have a book coming out in May that's based on

463
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,479
Speaker 3: the same stuff. Because we had so many people say, hey,

464
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,640
Speaker 3: can you guys do a podcast or something to keep

465
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 3: this conversation going, because it really normalized what couples go through,

466
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 3: like seeing you guys go through the same kind of

467
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 3: stuff where some of those fights were like so petty

468
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 3: and dumb and how do you get through it. We

469
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 3: also have a therapist up in Sonoma County here in

470
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 3: northern California that is an amazing more of a coach,

471
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,640
Speaker 3: like a marriage coach, and so he's in the docu well,

472
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 3: and he gives like really great advice and these nuggets

473
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 3: of gold on how to like work through stuff as

474
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 3: partners that have been together for a minute.

475
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,200
Speaker 1: It's so awesome that you did that. You're my hero

476
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 1: both of hotel. Please tell her, I said, thank you,

477
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:29,880
Speaker 1: because that's it. Really we by talking about stuff, people go, oh,

478
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 1: I didn't know that someone else tells, even just simple

479
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 1: stuff like sibling things. You know, how many people have

480
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,680
Speaker 1: run into who say, you know, they don't talk to

481
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 1: a sister or a brother and it's not anything major,

482
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 1: it's just that they're not the same type of people.

483
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,680
Speaker 1: But yet all their friends are best friends with their siblings.

484
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 1: And you feel weird in an outcast, and then you

485
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you realize that's not the case.

486
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people in that situation.

487
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, well we learn really And we've been working with

488
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 3: this guy. And his name's doctor John Gray, not the

489
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 3: and not the doctor like marser men are from Mars

490
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 3: or woman for Venus. Guy he's a oh yeah, he's

491
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 3: like our doctor. John Gray is like a Stanford neurologist

492
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 3: guy that runs marriage coaching up in so Noma. Like

493
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 3: I said, but he it's just communication skills, right, it's

494
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,440
Speaker 3: just learning. It's learning how to like mirror your partner,

495
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 3: how to like actually hear them, how to mirror that back.

496
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 3: And yeah, he's got some amazing things that we learned

497
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 3: and put into practice, and yeah, it's pretty pretty incredible.

498
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 2: Well, thank you for that.

499
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:34,440
Speaker 1: Has there ever been a song that you wrote you

500
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 1: felt was too personal to release and how do you

501
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 1: decide what gets released and what doesn't.

502
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 3: Well, there's a couple of things that we have that

503
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 3: chan Tell and I have on this next next album

504
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 3: we're making where it's really, yeah, super personal. But again,

505
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 3: I think like there's an arc to like an artist's journey,

506
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,440
Speaker 3: and I think like becoming more comfortable in your own skin.

507
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 3: Like I I'm happy to release those now. I'm happy

508
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 3: to I think the world needs that. And as an artist,

509
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 3: that's the only way to be original is to tell

510
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 3: your story, you know, So if you're kind of hiding

511
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 3: behind like cliche phrases and stuff, I mean, that's just

512
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 3: so boring or someone else's story, Yeah, exactly, observational. Yeah,

513
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 3: is there a song of yours or someone else's that

514
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 3: you returned to when you need to be reminded to

515
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 3: be okay with yourself? Yeah, I mean there's a song

516
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 3: that we wrote on that documentary. It's called that Can Change.

517
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:34,400
Speaker 3: And like you see the fight, you see like the tension,

518
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 3: and Chantell just starts playing this like you said, she

519
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 3: starts playing this piano riff just because she's sad, and

520
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 3: like that's how she's dealing with it. I hear it.

521
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh my God, that riff's amazing. She was like,

522
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 3: I'm not writing this for a song. I'm writing it

523
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 3: just like this therapy. I was like, no, No, that's

524
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,880
Speaker 3: an amazing riff. Then I started writing lyrics the melodies,

525
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 3: and we write this whole song. We recorded in the

526
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 3: hotel room. That's what's on the album. That song is

527
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 3: like so pure or and just that message if I

528
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 3: can change is such a big deal because it's just

529
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 3: a reminder. So that's that's the song. I when we

530
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 3: when Chantelle and I play live, when we play that song,

531
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 3: it's just like it is like I know, it's like

532
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:15,479
Speaker 3: holding a mirror to yourself.

533
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: And it released too, probably for a lot of people

534
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,400
Speaker 1: hearing it, you know, looking at an example.

535
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think I think the idea that you know,

536
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 3: when people think about changing, it's like, oh I got

537
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 3: to change everything. This song is more about just little

538
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 3: incremental changes and how how affected that can be a

539
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 3: much of a difference I can make.

540
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 2: It's huge. Do you have advice for anyone looking to

541
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 2: use music to heal the best way?

542
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I mean I think we all do

543
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 3: that on a daily basis. And again, it can be

544
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 3: just fun music or it can be stuff that takes

545
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 3: you down that rabbit hole of darkness, but somehow leads you.

546
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,639
Speaker 3: Like I think Jeff Buckley does that so well in Grace.

547
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 3: And it's sad that we don't have am around, but

548
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 3: that record just had like heavy you know. It's just

549
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,360
Speaker 3: like there's a lot of feels like on all these songs,

550
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,399
Speaker 3: but there's something that's so spiritual about it that it

551
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 3: feels good in a weird way. And I think that's

552
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:11,399
Speaker 3: I realized it's over COVID. It's like when everyone was

553
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 3: locked up in their homes, we all binged like Netflix

554
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 3: and Hulu and Prime and all that stuff, and it

555
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 3: was all these new shows, you know. But the music

556
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 3: I went back to, and I've had this conversation a

557
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 3: lot of people I went back to, like Neil Young records.

558
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 3: I couldn't listen to new music, and it was it

559
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 3: was because music was the way in that time of

560
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:37,680
Speaker 3: like socio political disarray, music was a comfort. And so

561
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 3: that's that's where I realized, how, like, man, do we

562
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 3: kind of disvalue music like it is that it is

563
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 3: that healing force in our lives, you know.

564
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 2: It is it's so super powerful.

565
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: I've actually interviewed some doctors, some prominent doctors who are

566
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 1: using it to help people, you know, stroke victims and

567
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 1: not just people terminally who need to be uplifted, but

568
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 1: literally like helping them to regain walking again.

569
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 4: Yeah.

570
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 2: Stuff.

571
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, you see it with like Alzheimer's patients as well,

572
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 3: like music from their childhood or in their past, like

573
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 3: that's the only thing they connected with, that the only

574
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 3: thing that kind of awakens them. So it's just like

575
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 3: there's something neological. Obviously, obviously there's stuff within like the

576
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 3: you know, frequencies and everything, but like you said, there's

577
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 3: a science to it, and there's just an emotional equation

578
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 3: that is so special.

579
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:34,120
Speaker 2: Rain.

580
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 1: I know you are short on time, but I want

581
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: I have two more quick before I let you go. First,

582
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 1: is there I know you and your wife are involved

583
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: in important causes. Is there anything that you'd like to

584
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: talk about and let people know about that you're working on,

585
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: that you're passionate about outside of music.

586
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean we're big supporters of an organization called

587
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 3: War Child. I just came back from Afghanistan a couple

588
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 3: of weeks ago, and just to see their work on

589
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 3: the ground that they do, you know, helping more affected

590
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 3: children that really have no responsibility for the wars that

591
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 3: are going on in their countries or cities or towns.

592
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 3: It's pretty special. And with Warchild, like ninety seven percent

593
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 3: of every dollar donated goes to the programs, as opposed

594
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 3: to some other charities that just don't operate that way.

595
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 3: So we're huge advocates for them, and they're very music oriented.

596
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 3: So anyone that's looking for stuff to support war child

597
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 3: something worth looking in for sure.

598
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: My last question, and thank you for that. It's amazing

599
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: you give so much just through your music and your

600
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: creativity and all the stuff that you share, and then

601
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: above and beyond that, you also use your platform for

602
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: so many other good things.

603
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 2: So thank you for that.

604
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: And after thirty years, I know it sounds crazy, doesn't

605
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: considering making music?

606
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 2: Does music still save you in the same way every day?

607
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 3: Every day? I mean, I I'm always and I think

608
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 3: it's it's a very holistic like quote unquote saving because

609
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 3: it keeps my mind turning, it keeps me feeling youthful

610
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 3: because I'm always writing, and I think just the fact

611
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 3: that you're always kind of like dipping into your own

612
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 3: brain seeing what's coming out seeing what you want to say,

613
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 3: and then on the other side of it, I love.

614
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 3: I don't get to drive much because I'm always using

615
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 3: on planes or buses. So when I get to actually

616
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 3: drive a car and set up a playlist, that is

617
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 3: like so spiritual for me because I just get to

618
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 3: get lost in albums that I love, you know, And

619
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 3: so man, I can't wait. I'm I actually I fly

620
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 3: tonight to Toronto from LA and I get to drive

621
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 3: for four hours to Detroit from Toronto for an all

622
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 3: piece show. That drive will be magical because I you know,

623
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 3: I'll listen to like Grace, and I'll listen to like

624
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 3: maybe you know, the Joshua Tree, you know, and maybe

625
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 3: I'll listen to a couple of new records. But it's

626
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 3: just that like that, that's it right there. It'll that

627
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 3: four hours will get me through the next four weeks.

628
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: And you don't drive a lot, and you're getting lost

629
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: in music. So what road are you going to be

630
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: on that we shouldn't be driving on? Are you rain

631
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: made a Thank you so much for spending time with

632
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: us on music save Me and sharing your story, and

633
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: thank you for everything that you do, you and your wife,

634
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: your wonderful team, and I hope our paths cross again.

635
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 2: Thank you for sharing your story.

636
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 3: Oh thanks on my pleasure