1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and thank you so much for joining us 2 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: for this special edition of Bloomberg Daybreak. US markets are 3 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: closed for the Juneteenth holiday. I'm Nathan Hager. Coming up 4 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: this hour. We look at the state of antitrust in 5 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 1: America with a paramount Skydance takeover of Warner Brothers Discovery 6 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: getting final approval from the Justice Department. But is it final? 7 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: We'll discuss with Jenniferree of Bloomberg Intelligence. Plus, the official 8 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: start of summer is just days away. We'll look at 9 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,160 Speaker 1: what's in store for summer travel season with Nicki Eckstein 10 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: and Chris Rouser of Bloomberg Pursuits. But we begin with 11 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 1: earnings because one of the big flyers in the tech space, 12 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 1: Micron Technology, is set to report next week. For a 13 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 1: look at that and more of what the tech landscape's 14 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,279 Speaker 1: looking like about halfway through the year, we are very 15 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: pleased to welcome man Deep Singh, Global head of Technology 16 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: Research at Bloomberg Intelligence, along with Bloomberg Intelligence Senior tech 17 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: analyst anurag Rana. It's great to have the both of 18 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: you with us on this holiday. I mean, you just 19 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: think about the run, not just Micron, but pretty much 20 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: all of the memory chip stocks have had this year. 21 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:12,559 Speaker 1: It has been mind boggling, Mandy, what are we expecting 22 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: when we actually hear second quarter numbers from Micron in 23 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: the coming week. 24 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 2: When it comes to Micron, they have had a phenomenal 25 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 2: upward revision this year simply because memory demand has inflected. 26 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 2: First we saw that with HPM, the high bandwidth memory 27 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 2: that was used with all the accelerator chips. Now we 28 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 2: have seen the same with DRAM and nand and other 29 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:44,199 Speaker 2: types of memory. And you know, there is a lot 30 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 2: of stockpiling going on, but for a good reason, because 31 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 2: you know, when you look at the large ANGLEIG models 32 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 2: and the inference in side of llms, there is no 33 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 2: doubt that you know, these models are being used for 34 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 2: you use cases like coding agents, and that has just 35 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 2: resulted in a lot more demand for all types of memories. 36 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 2: And that's showing up in the device upgrades, that showing 37 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,679 Speaker 2: up in the new server deployments. But this is a 38 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 2: very big secular trend and which is why you're seeing, 39 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 2: you know, Micron probably going to post to over two 40 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 2: hundred percent growth, you know this year in twenty twenty six. 41 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: That demand has led to huge increases as you know, 42 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: in memory chip prices and huge increases in capital expenditure 43 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: forecast by so many of these companies. I wonder when 44 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 1: we start to see a top on both of those 45 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: man deep do you see that on the horizon. 46 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 2: The way these cycles work is, you know, as you know, 47 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 2: Memories and oligopoly with Micron, s Kehinex and Samsung, and 48 00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 2: these companies haven't really expanded their capacity in a big way. 49 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 2: So when you look at the capex of the memory companies, 50 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 2: they've been more around you know, mid to high single 51 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 2: digit type of capacity expansion and the sort of demand 52 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 2: trends that I alluded to earlier, we have seen demand 53 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 2: grow you know, two x three x. So when there 54 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 2: is such big you know, supply demand mismatch, I mean, 55 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 2: the pricing obviously is off the charge, which is a 56 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 2: big driver of what the top line growth of over 57 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 2: two hundred percent. But we don't see that you know, 58 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 2: supply demand coming into equilibrium anytime soon, simply because that 59 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 2: capacity expansion is so muted. And until these memory companies 60 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 2: expand their supply in a big way, or we find 61 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 2: you know, there is a new memory player out of 62 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 2: China or somewhere else, it's hard to imagine, you know, 63 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 2: what will resolve this mismatch anytime soon. 64 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: I want to bring you into the conversation, Anna rog 65 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: because I know you cover many of the hyperscalers that 66 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: are behind so much of this memory demand, as well 67 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 1: as the software stocks that could potentially be disrupted by 68 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: what we're seeing in the AI build out. What's your 69 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 1: view on where the demand pictures headed from here? 70 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,039 Speaker 3: So it looks like that the kapex is going to 71 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 3: be revised upward again, which is obviously good for all 72 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 3: the semi names and memory as when he was talking about, 73 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 3: but that's really the big you know focus right now. 74 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 3: We came into the ear with a very common trait 75 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 3: that was everybody's long semis and shot software and that 76 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 3: continues to be the case, although you know, we have 77 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:49,679 Speaker 3: seen some relief over the past few weeks for software names, 78 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 3: but you know, the easy trade for everybody is Kapix 79 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,239 Speaker 3: is going up, so the hardware and the semi names 80 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 3: should benefit because of all that's going into that realm. 81 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 3: And we are uncertain how the software world is going 82 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 3: to shape up because these models are getting smarter day 83 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 3: by day. And if that's the case, you don't need 84 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 3: to pay so much for packet software down the road. 85 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 3: So that still remains the case if you look at it. 86 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 3: You know, Microsoft is down over fifteen percent this year, 87 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 3: and yet some of the other cloud vendors such as 88 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 3: Amazon up is up this year. So that's that's your 89 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 3: dichotomy over there. 90 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: Well and Rock, how do you see the software name 91 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 1: sort of navigating the potential for disruption at this point. 92 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: We haven't just heard from the hyperscalers. You've heard from 93 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 1: the likes of Adobe and Oracle as well. 94 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean each one of them has a different 95 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 3: story that's going through it at this point. So when 96 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 3: you look at you know, we published a big report 97 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 3: earlier in the year. When you look at bigger companies 98 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 3: like SAP, we think they are a little bit better 99 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 3: protected then maybe somebody like an Adobe, where the product 100 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 3: or the LMS can do some of that model generation 101 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 3: or the image generation as well as the as movie generation. 102 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 3: And I think that's where a lot of the arguments is. 103 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 3: We are not seeing a lot of fundamentals get eroded 104 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 3: at this point only because we are still early in 105 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 3: the AI model race. But down the road there is 106 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 3: a high chance that some of them will lose business 107 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 3: to the lower end of the market. The bigger question 108 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 3: is whether enterprises will shift into their homegrown systems or 109 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 3: they still depend on the likes of Workday and Salesforce 110 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 3: and all the other companies. At this point, we are 111 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 3: not seeing that mass shift over because again, as I said, 112 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 3: it's early in the game, but I think that's the 113 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 3: big risk for them. 114 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: We're speaking with annorag Rana, senior tech analysts for Bloomberg Intelligence, 115 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: along with bi's global head of Tech research Mandeep saying 116 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: for a broad look at the tech space as we're 117 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:56,920 Speaker 1: getting closer to the second half of the year. Mandeep, 118 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 1: of course, one of the big elephants in the room 119 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: in tech right now is the arrival of SpaceX in 120 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 1: the public market, not just a rocket company, but positioning 121 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: itself as a major player in AI as well with 122 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: these dreams of data centers in orbit at some point, 123 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:21,239 Speaker 1: how do you see SpaceX affecting the overall AI race 124 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: Now that it's in the public market, That. 125 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 2: Makes it even more exciting in terms of you know 126 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 2: what we are witnessing with this big technology shift that 127 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 2: we are talking about in terms of AI and with 128 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 2: space really, you know, it's SpaceX with IPO has shown 129 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 2: that it is iconic in terms of what they have achieved. 130 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 2: And even with the orbital data center vision, I know, 131 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 2: you know, right now we don't have anything tangible in 132 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 2: terms of actual compute being done in orbital data center, 133 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 2: but as a concept, you know, it is huge in 134 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 2: terms of meeting some of the compute requirements that we 135 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 2: are talking about with AI. And if that vision turns 136 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 2: into a reality, which is what they laid out, you 137 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 2: know with the road show, it could be huge for 138 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 2: you know, just the technology dominance that these companies have had, 139 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 2: and I think the aipiece of SpaceX is clearly a 140 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 2: vertical strategy that they are pursuing. You know, not only 141 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 2: do they have the compute with the terrestrial data centers, 142 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 2: they also have this orbital data center capacity and they 143 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 2: can deploy it within their own rock model, which is 144 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,239 Speaker 2: what they're hoping to improve with the acquisition of Cursors. 145 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 2: So a lot of moving parts in that company, but 146 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 2: you know, they have a grand vision and if there's 147 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 2: anyone who can make that space vision a reality, I 148 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 2: would bet on SpaceX. And so it is a big bet. 149 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,960 Speaker 2: And we still don't know how feasible it is to 150 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 2: you know, send these one hundred ton loads to space 151 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 2: because they've shown they can do that for up to 152 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 2: twenty three fifty tons, but sending it one hundred tons 153 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 2: of payload and then doing that in a reusable way, 154 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 2: that is the part that I think technology challenge that 155 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:35,119 Speaker 2: still needs to be solved for, and I think SpaceX 156 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 2: is best position to do that. 157 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 1: Of course, it is early days in terms of how 158 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: SpaceX is going to perform in the market, and to 159 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: your point on a rock about it being early days 160 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 1: in the AI race in general, in terms of the 161 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: stocks that you cover, some of those software names. Is 162 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: there a SpaceX impact on your coverage area. 163 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 3: No, there is no SpaceX direct impact other than you know, 164 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 3: the traders trying to you know, I would say fivoit 165 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 3: more towards those kinds of names, and perhaps you know, 166 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 3: selling some of the traditional technology names, whether it's in 167 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 3: consulting or software. I mean, we have seen some pressure 168 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 3: on that in the last few weeks, but you know, 169 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 3: by and large, there is no direct impact. 170 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: There are so many dynamics around the tech story as well, 171 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: not just this huge amount of competition, the valuations, but 172 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: you know, there's been some level of pushback as well, 173 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 1: not just from many consumers who are concerned about AI's 174 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: impact on their job prospects or society as a whole, 175 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: but some government pushback as well when it comes to 176 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:48,679 Speaker 1: Anthropic in particular. Man, Deep, how do you see that 177 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: potentially affecting how things go in terms of the fundamentals 178 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 1: for these companies. 179 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, Anthropic has had a phenomenal growth this year 180 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 2: here to Their revenue has grown, you know, five x 181 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 2: from where they were back in December, and you know, 182 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 2: it's a forty seven billion dollar revenue run rate business. 183 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 2: So if something like this happens where a government bands, 184 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:19,559 Speaker 2: you know, the use of its models outside the country, 185 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 2: it is a big deal and it will have repercussions 186 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 2: in terms of, you know, what kind of growth we 187 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:34,560 Speaker 2: can expect, especially outside the US for a frontier model 188 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 2: like Entropic. But it's still early days. I think Entropic 189 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:44,199 Speaker 2: being labeled the supply chain risk was always a threat. 190 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 2: And you know, they talked about the capabilities of this 191 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 2: Mythos model, which they commercially released under a new name 192 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 2: called Fable. This has capabilities that could be used for 193 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 2: all sorts of purpose is not just for useful work, 194 00:12:02,559 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 2: but also you know, for cyber attacks, and I think 195 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 2: poses a lot of risks. So from that perspective, we 196 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 2: are still learning about the capabilities of this model, and 197 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 2: I think like all these frontier labs may have to 198 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 2: take a pause and really highlight the risks involved in 199 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 2: deploying these models at scale. And that's where I think 200 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 2: the governments will step in and make sure that sovereign 201 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 2: element is clear, and you know, they know exactly how 202 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 2: to regulate this, so there will be a lot more 203 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 2: emphasis on regulation and government involvement with the deployment of 204 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 2: these models going forward. 205 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,480 Speaker 1: Really appreciate the perspective from both of you as we 206 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: keep a closer eye on the tech space into the 207 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: second half. That's on a rag Rana and man Deep 208 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: sing covering tech for Bloomberg Intelligence. Up next, we're going 209 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:57,439 Speaker 1: to take a look at the current state of anti 210 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: trust with Jennifer Reed of blaeg Intelligence. It's twenty minutes 211 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:05,040 Speaker 1: past the hour. I'm Nathan Hager, and this is Bloomberg. 212 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,439 Speaker 1: Welcome back to this special edition of Bloomberg Daybreak. US 213 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: markets are closed for the Juneteenth holiday. I'm Nathan Hager. 214 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: The Justice Departments closed, it's antitrust probe into Paramount Skydance, 215 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: and it's one hundred and ten billion dollar purchase of 216 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,439 Speaker 1: Warner Brothers Discovery. But it's far from a done deal. 217 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,479 Speaker 1: For more, let's bring in Bloomberg Intelligence senior litigation analysts 218 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: Jennifer Ree set up the leading question, Jen why is 219 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: it not a done deal? 220 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 4: Right? 221 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 5: You'd think that that would be a big hurdle for 222 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,400 Speaker 5: them to cross, but it wasn't really much of a surprise, 223 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 5: to be honest. But this deal needs approval from regulators 224 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 5: in the UK and also in Europe before it can close. 225 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 5: That's a term within their agreement, but also the laws 226 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 5: of those jurisdictions say that they need to get clearance 227 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 5: before they've closed. And so those are ongoing investigations with 228 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 5: some important dates coming up in July and August, whereby 229 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 5: each one will decide whether or not they'll move into 230 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 5: an in depth investigation of the deal or cleared the 231 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 5: deal with or without concessions. 232 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: So, the UK and the EU, what are the main 233 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: hurdles that they could potentially be putting up against Paramount 234 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: sky Dance in that Warner Brothers acquisition, So. 235 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 5: They're looking at a lot of what I think challengers 236 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 5: or complainants in this country have looked at the overlap 237 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 5: in the movie theaters. It's really kind of Big five 238 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 5: going down to Big four. There's some other fringe studios, 239 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 5: but specifically, I think in Europe the concern might be 240 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 5: an overlap in children's television stations. Most children's television stations 241 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 5: in both the UK and Europe are owned by American companies, 242 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 5: And with this combination Paramount and Warner Brothers, you bring 243 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 5: together cartoon network Nickel, Nick Junior, cartoon Nito, and they 244 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 5: both have some international children's channels as well. So I 245 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 5: suspect that there may be some concessions needed with respect 246 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 5: to divesting some of those channels. 247 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: Okay, I think there'd been some Bloomberg News reporting that 248 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: Paramount sky Dance might be willing to work with some 249 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: of the regulators overseas on potentially divesting some of those 250 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: children's channels. Would that be enough? You know? 251 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 5: I think it will maybe with a few behavioral concessions, 252 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 5: like promises to license their content to other distributors. Streaming 253 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 5: distributors in those jurisdictions on fair, reasonable and non discriminatory 254 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 5: terms rather than favoring their own streaming products. A few 255 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 5: behavioral concessions, but I think that'll probably be enough to 256 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 5: get those deals over the line. You know, when Disney 257 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 5: acquired Fox, this is what they had to do. In Europe, 258 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 5: there was an issue there with an overlap in what 259 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 5: they called factual channels. These were mostly channels operated by 260 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 5: A and E, and in order to get that deal cleared, 261 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 5: they did need to divest I think with something five 262 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 5: or six channels that were A and E stations. 263 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 1: Now, if the deal does get over the line in 264 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: the UK and EU, would that be the ultimate clearance 265 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: for this? 266 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 5: So not necessarily. You have the California Attorney General investigating 267 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 5: the deal now with apparently a group of about ten 268 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 5: or nine other states. The states have the right independently 269 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 5: to enforce federal antitrust law no matter what the Department 270 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 5: of Justice does. So if the States determined that they 271 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 5: think the deal could harm competition, they can still bring 272 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 5: a lawsuit. And they keep saying, hey, this isn't over yet. 273 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 5: We're investigating and we're not done yet, so it's possible 274 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 5: they could still go to court to challenge the deal. 275 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 5: Even though it's been cleared by the DOJ and will 276 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 5: likely be cleared elsewhere too. 277 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: And to that point, the Justice Department has said they 278 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: don't think that joining these two companies would be unfair 279 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: to competition. So what are the potential arguments that the 280 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:53,160 Speaker 1: States could make. 281 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 5: Well, the first thing I'll say about this is that 282 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 5: the Department of Justice did say that, but gave very 283 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 5: very little detail. They basically just said, hey, it's a 284 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 5: competitive market. And these companies have promised the world. They've 285 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 5: promised to invest, They've promised to maintain employment, they've promised 286 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 5: to increase their slate of movies they produce, and to 287 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 5: maintain theatrical distribution before going to streaming. But usually that's 288 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:21,359 Speaker 5: not those kinds of promises aren't good enough in somebody. 289 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,959 Speaker 5: Usually the authorities want those to be put down on paper. 290 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,439 Speaker 5: So it may be that the states there are a 291 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 5: couple options here. The States just simply want to do 292 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 5: better than saying here's what the company said they would do, 293 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,160 Speaker 5: and we're okay with that. You know, they might want 294 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 5: some kind of a settlement. So the States are legally 295 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 5: bound to those the companies are legally bound. And again 296 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 5: I think there's a lot of room here. You know, 297 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 5: antitrust and harm to markets can really be very gray 298 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 5: and can be subjective. You know, where one assessment could 299 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 5: show unlikely harm, another could show likely harm. Because remember 300 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 5: they're looking at what might happen in the future, if 301 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 5: two companies come together, what might their incentives be, what 302 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 5: might happen in the market, So everybody speculating. Obviously it's 303 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 5: not out of the realm of possibility that two different 304 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,239 Speaker 5: speculators could come out differently on that. And in the 305 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:14,680 Speaker 5: markets here, it's really very close. We tend to think 306 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 5: of about a thirty percent combined market share as kind 307 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:20,400 Speaker 5: of being that level by which below it you're probably 308 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 5: not too worried, but above it, maybe you have some 309 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 5: concern about harm. And I do have to say, in 310 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 5: most of the overlap markets for this deal, the shares 311 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 5: get to about that level, but don't exceed that level. 312 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 5: So it's hard to make out kind of an initial 313 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 5: case that this could harm competition. But in particular, I 314 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 5: think California is concerned about labor and the labor market 315 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,679 Speaker 5: in those cities in the state where they're making movies 316 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:45,199 Speaker 5: and content. 317 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:49,479 Speaker 1: Yeah, to have California potentially leading the charge on a 318 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: challenge to this merger. It makes you think that, you know, 319 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: this is kind of the home state, right, I mean, 320 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 1: this is where Hollywood is. So what's the track record 321 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 1: or is there a track recw for California when it 322 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:07,199 Speaker 1: comes to mounting challenges to mergers in their sort of 323 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:09,119 Speaker 1: home state industry. 324 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 5: I would say that that track record is pretty good, 325 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 5: but it's very new. 326 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 3: You. 327 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 5: It is unusual in the past for the states to 328 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 5: go out independently. They're generally aligned with the federal antitrust enforcers. 329 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 5: But what we have seen as a bit of a 330 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 5: departure in the last couple of years whereby states are 331 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 5: striking out independently in cases where they deemed the Department 332 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 5: of Justice having been to lax or not doing it 333 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:35,640 Speaker 5: their job, and they've had some success. So, for instance, 334 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 5: Nextstar Integna have merged. They were cleared by the Department 335 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 5: of Justice and Federal Communications Commission, but the States said, 336 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 5: not so fast, we think this is a problematic deal. 337 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 5: They went to court. They tried to get to court 338 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,439 Speaker 5: before the deal closed, but they didn't manage to do that. 339 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,199 Speaker 5: But they went to court and they successfully obtained a 340 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 5: preliminary injunction stopping the companies for now from integrating until 341 00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 5: the judge can decide on a permanent block on the deal, 342 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:03,439 Speaker 5: So that's in litigation. They also had great success in 343 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 5: a lawsuit against Live Nation for monopolization. That was a 344 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 5: jury trial and the Department of Justice was a plaintiff 345 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 5: with the States there, but settled during the first week 346 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 5: of trial. But at a large group of states said no, 347 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 5: this is a problematic deal. The settlement doesn't resolve the concerns. 348 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 5: They went forward. They litigated the case and they have 349 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,160 Speaker 5: won a liability decision, so again a big success for them, 350 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 5: and that's still litigating now. The remedy aspect of that 351 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 5: is what we're looking at. 352 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:31,680 Speaker 2: Now. 353 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 1: We're speaking with Bloomberg Intelligence senior litigation analyst Jennifer Ree 354 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: on where the Paramount Skydance Warner Brothers merger could go 355 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,159 Speaker 1: now that the Justice Department has approved the deal. If 356 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: we do get to a point, Jen where the States 357 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:50,439 Speaker 1: bring a lawsuit and it does come to court, what 358 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: are the potential arguments that Paramount Skydance could make in 359 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:59,240 Speaker 1: their defense that you know, combining with Warner Brothers wouldn't 360 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 1: be a harm to competition. 361 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 5: Well, I think exactly what they've said to the Department 362 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 5: of Justice. No, we're promising something like thirty releases, and 363 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 5: if we're going to release that many movies, we need 364 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 5: to maintain both of these studios and maintain the employment 365 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:16,400 Speaker 5: because otherwise we can't get to that volume that we 366 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 5: promise a certain theatrical release window in big theaters, and 367 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 5: so it's not going to harm theaters, and it won't 368 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 5: harm labor and g and streaming. When we combine HBO 369 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 5: Max and Discovery Plus and Paramount Plus, we're still much 370 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 5: smaller than all the other big streamers out there, Netflix 371 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 5: in particular, and combined we only get to about I 372 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 5: think a fifteen percent share in the United States. And 373 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 5: these are just simply not historically problematic figures in antitrusturisprudence. 374 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 5: So I think those are the kind of arguments they'll make. 375 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: And if it gets to that point that we do 376 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: see those kinds of arguments, could we see the Justice 377 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:53,160 Speaker 1: Department looking for further commitments or even further concessions from 378 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: Paramount I. 379 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 5: Think not at this point, because as of June sixteenth, 380 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 5: the Department of Justice cleared the deal and issued a 381 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,639 Speaker 5: statement saying, you know, we're done. We don't think it 382 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 5: would harm competition, but you could see a settlement with 383 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 5: the companies in the States whereby they make certain promises. 384 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: Now, time is of the essence, isn't it for paramount 385 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 1: s guidance to really get this deal done to avoid 386 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 1: ticking fees to Warner Brothers Discovery? Right, So how does 387 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:21,600 Speaker 1: that affect things? 388 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 2: Right? 389 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 5: So, they have this ticking fee that'll kick in at 390 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,280 Speaker 5: the end of September. I mean interestingly, the end date 391 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 5: in their purchase agreement it isn't until June of twenty 392 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,120 Speaker 5: twenty seven, so they technically have time in their agreement 393 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 5: to litigate if they have to. But what they're going 394 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 5: to need to do if they get this clearance, these 395 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 5: clearances from the UK and the EU, but the States 396 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 5: go ahead and sue them, they're going to have to 397 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 5: fight hard against a preliminary injunction that would be a 398 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 5: temporary or short term block on closing the deal, while 399 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 5: a judge can decide on a more permanent solution, because 400 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 5: that would absolutely extend well beyond that September thirtieth date 401 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 5: by which the ticking fee would kick in. And I'm 402 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 5: thinking they're probably going to want to avoid pay that, 403 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 5: So they'll be fighting hard at that stage of the 404 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 5: litigation or I think trying hard to settle with the States. 405 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: Could that affect the further the terms of the deal 406 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: to try to get out from under those ticking fees 407 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: as fast as they can. 408 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 5: You know, I don't think so. I think they're just 409 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 5: going to do everything they can to fight hard and 410 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 5: put resources into this and to be aggressive to try 411 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,959 Speaker 5: to prevent anything that stops them from closing before that 412 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 5: September thirty date. 413 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,439 Speaker 1: So how do you see this shaking out as we 414 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: get closer to that. You mentioned the dispute in the 415 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: UK and the EU trying to get through that as well. 416 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,400 Speaker 1: What's the timetable? How do you see things playing out? 417 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,439 Speaker 5: You know, I think what the companies will do is 418 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 5: offer up concessions in the UK and EU and get 419 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,919 Speaker 5: those jurisdictions to clear before going into in depth investigations, 420 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 5: because if either one did open an in depth investigation, 421 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 5: it would absolutely extend well beyond September thirty. Right now, 422 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 5: they're in what they call a phase one, whereas an 423 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 5: in depth would be phase two, and Europe has to 424 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 5: make a decision about that July seventh in the UK 425 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 5: on August seventh, But the companies can offer concessions before 426 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,159 Speaker 5: those dates, and I think that they will do that 427 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 5: because then they can get these clearances before September thirty 428 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 5: for sure, and I think that's how that'll probably play out. 429 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,959 Speaker 1: Do you see any chance of any of these factors 430 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: scrubbing the deal? I wonder if Netflix is sort of 431 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,439 Speaker 1: still waiting in the wings there, or is that just 432 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: way out of left. 433 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 5: Field, you know, No, I think Netflix might still be 434 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 5: waiting in the wings. There's been so much vocal opposition 435 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 5: to the deal that I think many observers might think 436 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 5: there's some chance of getting it blocked. I would say 437 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 5: that when you really dive into the nitty gritty, it 438 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 5: just doesn't really raise clear cut or slam dunk antitrust 439 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 5: issues that a judge can easily rule on against the companies. 440 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 5: Netflix may be waiting in the wings, but I do 441 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 5: say Netflix has a bigger problem than Paramount on the 442 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,199 Speaker 5: anti trust because they are so big in streaming, so 443 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 5: adding on HBO Max would probably be a problem for Netflix. 444 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 1: And in our last minute, Jen, what other antitrust cases 445 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 1: do you potentially see coming down the pike? That could 446 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: pit States against the Justice Department. What's on your radar? 447 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,640 Speaker 5: Well, you know, I'm really mostly watching the litigation that's 448 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 5: ongoing now with respect to Nextstar and Live Nation. What 449 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 5: I think could happen down the road. We have these 450 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 5: really big anti trust lawsuits against Apple and against Amazon. 451 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 5: Amazon is the ftc, Apple is the United States Department 452 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,679 Speaker 5: of Justice, and if they follow the patterns that have 453 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:39,440 Speaker 5: been occurring since President Trump was reelected, there's some chance 454 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,400 Speaker 5: those cases could settle. So my question there would be, 455 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 5: will the States go on in those two cases, one 456 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 5: against Apple, one against Amazon, or either one as they 457 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 5: did in Live Nation if the federal anti trust enforces 458 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 5: decide to settle. So that's a little bit down the road, though. 459 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 5: We're looking more into twenty twenty seven for activity in 460 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 5: those cases. But I'm watching those all right. 461 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: Well, it never stops, doesn't It doesn't. Thank you for 462 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: this jet again, really great having you on with us. 463 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: That's Bloomberg Intelligence Senior Litigation analyst Jennifer Rae And up next, 464 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: we're going to look at some travel options this summer 465 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,640 Speaker 1: with Nicki Eckstein and Chris Rouser of Bloomberg Pursuits. It's 466 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 1: thirty seven minutes past the hour. I'm Nathan Hager, and 467 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:30,120 Speaker 1: this is Bloomberg. Thank you so much for joining us 468 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: for the special edition of Bloomberg Daybreak. US markets are 469 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,439 Speaker 1: closed for the Juneteenth holiday. I'm Nathan Hager, and we 470 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,919 Speaker 1: are just days away from the official start of summer, 471 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 1: so we thought this would be a kind of a 472 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: good time to think about travel. Many of us are 473 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,880 Speaker 1: getting ready to head out for vacations if we haven't already, 474 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: but this year is different than most. The war in 475 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 1: the Middle East has driven up gas, oil and jet 476 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: fuel prices for more. We're pleased to welcome from Bloomberg Pursuits, 477 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: Nikki Eckstein and Chris Rouser. Great to have the both 478 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: of you with us. So while we think about travel, 479 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: because you know, a lot of the airlines even as 480 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 1: the war has been underway, we're predicting this summer was 481 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 1: going to be busy, Nikki, are is that what we're 482 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 1: seeing play out right now? 483 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,400 Speaker 4: You know, people are not really willing to cut back 484 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 4: on travel this summer. There's data showing that sixty six 485 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,880 Speaker 4: percent of people are still spending more on their trips, 486 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 4: even if forty three percent of them are using their 487 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,640 Speaker 4: savings in order to do that. So definitely, people are 488 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 4: still very much hitting the road near, far and everything 489 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:32,400 Speaker 4: in between. 490 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: Is it just the road or are we expecting, Chris, 491 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 1: that the airports are going to be packed no matter 492 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: what time of the summer this. 493 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 6: Is, the airports are going to be chaotic. And yes, 494 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 6: we expect that airports are going to be packed. People 495 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 6: are going to be flying and you know, people are 496 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 6: putting a lot of trips on credit cards. People are 497 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 6: building in extra time to be in airports. The dwell 498 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 6: time in airports has gone up over the past few years, 499 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,719 Speaker 6: and people are know that there might be chaos, so 500 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 6: they show up early, they do some shopping, they eat it, 501 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 6: they eat some restaurants, and they just they give themselves 502 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 6: more wiggle room. 503 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,840 Speaker 1: So let's talk about you know, you mentioned how people 504 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: are paying for travel with credit cards more this year, Nikki. 505 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 1: Is there still a big need for travel points or 506 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: are people sort of dipping into those credit cards to 507 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,160 Speaker 1: get their trips off the ground. 508 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:27,360 Speaker 2: Here. 509 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 4: Oh, absolutely so. The use of rewards to pay for 510 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 4: your travel is up eight hundred and twenty percent this summer, wow, 511 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 4: which is a wild figure. I mean, we always have 512 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 4: known that people love to use points and miles in 513 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 4: order to get what they call free trips. Whether it's 514 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 4: really free or not, you and I can just you know, 515 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 4: we can debate that. But there's also a lot more 516 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 4: tools out there to help you make better use of 517 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 4: your points and miles. There's a lot more services that 518 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 4: are popping up to make sure that if you book, 519 00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 4: for instance, a flight on points and that cost of 520 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 4: the flight goes down in some kind of weird miracle, 521 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 4: you can get automatically rebooked to make sure that you're 522 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 4: not leaving miles on the table. The same is true 523 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 4: for hotels. So I think people are getting very wise 524 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 4: to those tools and trying to be very smart about 525 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 4: how they use this currency that is more valuable than 526 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 4: ever this summer. I would say, if that's something that 527 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 4: you want to do, there's a website called Gondola for hotels. 528 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 4: It automatically rebooks you when you're when your price drops 529 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 4: if that should happen. And there's a couple also for 530 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 4: for points and miles when you're booking flights. We've got 531 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 4: a whole list of these, but point dot me and 532 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 4: seats dot arrow are the two that really stand out. 533 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: Well, I can't think of how many times I've been 534 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: in coach and you know, heard from the flight attendant 535 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 1: passing around the credit card application for their loyalty credit 536 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 1: card and the points you can get. Chris, do those 537 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: kind of offers still make sense these days? 538 00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 2: Yeah? 539 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 6: I mean people, you know, the airline are basically miles 540 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 6: and rewards companies. That's where they make all their money, 541 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 6: and their strategy is oriented towards that. But something that 542 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 6: we learned from Brian Kelly, the points guy, is actually 543 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 6: that you should the best rewards come from getting like 544 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 6: a multi brand card, so like you Chase Saphire Reward 545 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 6: or an American Express Card Platinum card. Those gives you 546 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 6: the give you the more broad points that you can 547 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 6: use on lots of different things, and they're transferable. I 548 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 6: am like a Delta loyalist and so I am addicted 549 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,959 Speaker 6: to my Delta Platinum card and but that really locks 550 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 6: me in with Delta, and actually the benefits on other 551 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 6: cards that have points and miles that you know you 552 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 6: get three dollars for for gas purchases or grocery store purchases, 553 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 6: that kind of stuff actually can be better. 554 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to be admitting a little bit of 555 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: something here. When I book tickets, often I try to 556 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: get the you know, the lowest economy rate that I 557 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: possibly can, you know, just to get the cheapest rate. 558 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: But when it comes to things like being able to rebook, 559 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 1: does it make more sense now to try to pay 560 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: up for that higher tier just in case your plans change? 561 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 4: Nikki, Well, certainly there's two ways to approach that question. 562 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 4: There's the question of refundable bookings, where you can pay 563 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 4: a little bit more. You know, it's a sliding scale 564 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,720 Speaker 4: cost to get a refundable either a plane ticket or 565 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 4: hotel room, where you're not necessarily committed upfront to a 566 00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 4: locked in cost. You can always, you know, decide if 567 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 4: your plans change, somebody get sick, the geopolitical situation evolves, 568 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 4: you can make a change no matter what. The other 569 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 4: way is to pursue something called cancel for any reason. 570 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 4: Travel insurance. It can be a bit expensive. Sometimes it 571 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 4: goes up to like fifteen percent of your total travel cost, 572 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 4: and you have to sign up for these policies like 573 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 4: immediately after booking your flights and hotels. You can't really 574 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 4: delay between when you book your trip and you book 575 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 4: your travel insurance. So those are the two things that 576 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 4: exist to protect you from all of the different factors 577 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 4: that might change your plans. I would price compare. There's 578 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 4: a website called square mouth that helps you compare the 579 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 4: price of various insurance policies and providers so that you 580 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 4: can kind of just look side by side at what 581 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 4: you're getting and what it costs. And I would do 582 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 4: that next to your airfare search that shows you what 583 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 4: a non refundable ticket looks like versus a refundable ticket. 584 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I kind of bring issues up because I'm sure 585 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: I'm not the only traveler who's thinking about ways to 586 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: try to save money here and there, just because you know, 587 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,960 Speaker 1: there are so many fees nowadays as well, and you 588 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: think about the bankruptcy of Spirit Airlines and a lot 589 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: of commentary that maybe that was going to have an 590 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: effect on pricing power for airlines as well. So, Chris, 591 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 1: do you see any of this sort of deterring people 592 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: or having them rethink how they're booking their travel this summer? 593 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 6: I mean a lot of the airlines are really focused 594 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 6: on the higher end of their travelers, so they break 595 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 6: up the there's like elite tier, you know, there's the 596 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 6: first class, there's you know, the second class, there's third class, 597 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 6: and then they and then they have actually lowered what 598 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 6: the bottom economy tier is. So like some airlines have 599 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 6: a basic economy where you really got to look at 600 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 6: what you what you're signing up for because it is 601 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 6: the cheapest fair but you can't make changes, you don't 602 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 6: get to pick your seat. You know, there's no check bags. 603 00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 6: So what we used to think of as sort of 604 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 6: the floor of what you have, the grace that you 605 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 6: kept during traveling, actually they found a way to sort 606 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 6: of remove even some of that, so you know, paying 607 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 6: a little bit for the additional perks actually kind of 608 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,479 Speaker 6: only gets you to where you sort of assumed we 609 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 6: were at base level. 610 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 1: Before speaking with Chris Rouser and Nikki k Stein of 611 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Pursuits, as we start to think about summer travel season, 612 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 1: we've talked about, you know, some of the ways we 613 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: can try to save money here, let's talk about where 614 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: we can go now to put that money to you. 615 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 1: So I want to start with you, Nikki, what are 616 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 1: some of the best places to go this summer? Just 617 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 1: if you're looking for value. 618 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 4: If you're looking for value, then it's less about where 619 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,279 Speaker 4: you go than about how you go. Bear with me 620 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 4: on this one. Okay, I am not a cruiser personally, 621 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,200 Speaker 4: no offense to all of the many many people who are, 622 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,399 Speaker 4: but it is not my usual preferred style travel. That said, 623 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:24,400 Speaker 4: this is the summer where even if you're like me, 624 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 4: you might consider a cruise. There are more high end 625 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 4: options than have ever existed before. There are a lot 626 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 4: of hotel lines that have introduced yacht like sailing products 627 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,000 Speaker 4: on small ships. We're talking about a couple hundred passengers 628 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 4: at most on a ship. These are not like floating megacities. 629 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 4: And while the rates seem expensive on the surface, we're 630 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 4: talking about maybe six hundred to one thousand dollars a 631 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,279 Speaker 4: night per room. If you compare that to what you 632 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,720 Speaker 4: get on land in the most popular places in Europe 633 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 4: or in the Mediterranean, where a lot of these ships 634 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 4: are sailing, the value is actually mismatched in a way 635 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,839 Speaker 4: that's really really pealing to cruisers, especially when you think 636 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 4: about food being built in. Some of your excursions may 637 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:07,799 Speaker 4: be built in. Some of the on ship amenities, for sure, 638 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:12,120 Speaker 4: are built in. You're getting a much better deal for 639 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,760 Speaker 4: what is now a comparable product in terms of luxury. Certainly, 640 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,240 Speaker 4: trains are another thing that we don't think about quite 641 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,800 Speaker 4: so much. I was looking at a route on the 642 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 4: Rocky Mountaineer in Canada, which hits a bunch of beautiful 643 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 4: national parks as well as cities going all you know, 644 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,880 Speaker 4: from east to west across the lower border of Canada basically, 645 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 4: and you can get away with paying five hundred dollars 646 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,840 Speaker 4: a day, which on land is a really tricky ceiling 647 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 4: at this point to break. 648 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 1: Well, I got to admit, you know, across transcontinental train 649 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,239 Speaker 1: trip is one of those bucket list items for me 650 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 1: for sure, and it gets you thinking about, you know, 651 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 1: whether all inclusive is a better option this summer than 652 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,800 Speaker 1: you know, maybe you know, going to a luxury hotel 653 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,800 Speaker 1: and then you know, separating the flight that sort of thing. Chris, 654 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: does all inclusive make more sense this summer than it 655 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:06,280 Speaker 1: has in the past. 656 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 6: You know, all inclusive has sort of been a little 657 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,359 Speaker 6: bit of a family secret and maybe like a bachelorette 658 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 6: party or spring break secret. But yeah, in some cases, 659 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 6: you know a lot of booking through a tour company 660 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,439 Speaker 6: that creates everything for you, working with a travel agent 661 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 6: who can actually find you a package deal. Working with 662 00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 6: a human who can sort of steer you to something 663 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 6: where all the costs are built in actually can be 664 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,040 Speaker 6: a real plus, and people don't always think of it. 665 00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,920 Speaker 6: It like cruising, working on a package tour all inclusive 666 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,919 Speaker 6: thing can get a bad rep, but actually what we 667 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 6: think of from twenty thirty years ago, in terms of 668 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:47,720 Speaker 6: the level of amenities and the food for example, actually 669 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:49,359 Speaker 6: can be quite cheap. 670 00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up, Chris, because 671 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:57,240 Speaker 1: so many travelers these days are probably booking their trips 672 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 1: through artificial intelligence. Vicky, does it really make more sense 673 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,799 Speaker 1: to still work with a travel agent than to let 674 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 1: the chatbot do it for you? 675 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:07,640 Speaker 4: You know what a lot of people don't realize is 676 00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:09,440 Speaker 4: that it doesn't cost you anything to work with a 677 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 4: travel agent almost you know, ten out of ten times, 678 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,400 Speaker 4: the cost of a travel agent is not passed on 679 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,720 Speaker 4: to the consumer. It's actually passed on to your hotel 680 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 4: or different providers along the way, who pay commission to 681 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,480 Speaker 4: the travel agent for their services, not the traveler themselves. 682 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 4: And what the traveler gets out of this is a 683 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:32,360 Speaker 4: backup policy. It's a safety net if anything should go 684 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,320 Speaker 4: wrong on your trip, if your flight is canceled if 685 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 4: you know, whether it gets in your way, whatever it 686 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,360 Speaker 4: may be. And we know how hard it is to 687 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 4: avoid anything going wrong on your travels. These days, you 688 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,960 Speaker 4: have a real human in your pocket who is really 689 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,160 Speaker 4: well hooked up to help you out and get you 690 00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 4: out of trouble in that exact moment. I've been caught 691 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 4: in really tricky situations in the last couple of months, 692 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 4: and I've been so thankful to have a real human 693 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,760 Speaker 4: to call who can rebook my flights, you know, whatever 694 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 4: it might be. Gosh, it makes a huge difference. 695 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:07,400 Speaker 1: So just to close this out, Chris, when it comes 696 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 1: to you know, sort of out of the radar destinations, 697 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,800 Speaker 1: places you might want to go to just to avoid 698 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,759 Speaker 1: the crowds that you talked about that there are going 699 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,320 Speaker 1: to be at the airports this summer. What are you 700 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:21,000 Speaker 1: thinking about? 701 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:25,720 Speaker 6: We have some great recommendations. Nikki in the BusinessWeek section 702 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,360 Speaker 6: of Pursuits did a whole summer travel package which has 703 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 6: some really great ideas. One of my favorite stories was 704 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,399 Speaker 6: one that a writer named Paul Richardson did about Extremadura, 705 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,840 Speaker 6: which is in Spain. It's in southwestern Spain. You're Portugal 706 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:43,360 Speaker 6: and it's this mountainous region, beautiful towns and incredible culture, 707 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 6: new museums, great luxury hotels. I've been to Spain a 708 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 6: bunch of times. I lived there for a while, and 709 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,239 Speaker 6: I had never been there myself, and you know, when 710 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,960 Speaker 6: you go to Madrid, Barcelona, a lot of those places 711 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,839 Speaker 6: are quite crowded now because everyone has sort of, you know, 712 00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 6: woken up to the beauties of Spain and the amazing food, 713 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,640 Speaker 6: and so finding places that feel really authentic but also 714 00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:05,880 Speaker 6: not really overrun is very special. And Extremodora has some 715 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 6: really beautiful towns that are really great to visit and 716 00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:09,400 Speaker 6: not packed. 717 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 1: So great to get these summer travel ideas from the 718 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 1: both of you. Thanks so much for being with us. 719 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:20,279 Speaker 1: That is Nicky Eckstein and Chris Rouser of Bloomberg Pursuits. 720 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,879 Speaker 1: We'd also like to thank Bloomberg Intelligence analyst Jennifer ree Man, 721 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 1: Deep Sing and honorog Run. Of course, thanks to you 722 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 1: as well for joining us on this holiday. I'm Nathan Hager. 723 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,680 Speaker 1: Stay with us. Top stories and global business headlines are 724 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:35,080 Speaker 1: coming up right now.