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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and the consumer price index rows two

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Speaker 1: point seven percent from one year prior as the global

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Speaker 1: trade war started to rage. We have such a great

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Speaker 1: show for you today, Slates. Dahlia Lethwick stops by to

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Speaker 1: talk about the fallout from the recent dramatic and dramatic

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court's rulings. Then we'll talk to the Bulwarks. Will

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Speaker 1: Sommer about the extreme amounts of kopham coming from Maga

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Speaker 1: world as they twist themselves in knots over the Epstein

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Speaker 1: client list. But first the news.

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Speaker 2: My Emil Bove, a man who judges don't like. I

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Speaker 2: think is right up there with Stephen Miller and being

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Speaker 2: a person where when you know him, you're not a fan.

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Speaker 2: This is evidenced by dozens of judges have called for

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Speaker 2: it a letter to be unfit for the bench. As

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Speaker 2: the Senate votes to confirm him. What are you seeing here?

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Speaker 1: So this is one of these confirmations where the Senate

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Speaker 1: is looking at him. People cannot stop leaking and sending

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Speaker 1: letters and their whistleblowers. He's up for a lifetime appointment

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Speaker 1: on the Third Circuit Court of Appeals if confirmed by

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Speaker 1: the Senate, and literally everyone in the world is coming

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Speaker 1: forward to tell them stories of alleged misdeeds, including a whistleblower.

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Speaker 1: He was also this is another person, and they're a

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Speaker 1: bunch who are who were Trump, who were Trump lawyers

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Speaker 1: who then were put into the Justice Department to serve

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Speaker 1: as tru Trump Hedgeman Trump henchmen. And so this is

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Speaker 1: another one. I mean, what I think is the most

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Speaker 1: interesting about both Vey is that he looks so much

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Speaker 1: like Roy Cohen.

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Speaker 2: It's so funny you said that. I literally was thinking

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Speaker 2: that yesterday. I'd never heard anybody say that.

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Speaker 1: He looks just like Ray Colan. And he has that

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Speaker 1: same thing that Stephen Miller has where he's not very old.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, maybe Jesse will figure out

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Speaker 1: how old he is, but he's not very old, but

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Speaker 1: he looks like he has really been through it, just

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Speaker 1: like Steven Miller.

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Speaker 2: He's younger than us.

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Speaker 1: He's younger than us, right, and he looks like he

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Speaker 1: could be our dad. And that is not to say

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Speaker 1: anything bad about his looks, but just to say that

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Speaker 1: the acts of whatever it is those guys are doing

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Speaker 1: for Trump AGCO. Just like Stephen Miller is like a

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Speaker 1: decade younger than we are.

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Speaker 2: He's probably going to make People's Sexiest Man Alive list

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Speaker 2: this year.

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Speaker 1: He'll be telling you, certainly, if Trump propaganda is any

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Speaker 1: if they have any way with the propaganda, they will

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Speaker 1: be They both be on People's Sexiest List.

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Speaker 2: So, speaking of people doing things for mister Trump, Linda

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Speaker 2: McMahon will begin the process of dismantling the Education Department

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Speaker 2: after their Supreme Court win.

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Speaker 1: So it's worth remembering this is another like we have

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Speaker 1: to end everything good Jimmy Carter did. FEMA is another

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Speaker 1: creation of Jimmy Carter. There is a theory floating around

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Speaker 1: that the reason Trump became so stuck on undoing the

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Speaker 1: legacy of Jimmy Carter is because Jimmy Carter died and

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Speaker 1: it was in the news cycle, and he got thinking

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Speaker 1: about Jimmy Carter and he wanted to undo a lot

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Speaker 1: of the carterisms. By the way, Jesse, I'm sure when

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Speaker 1: you saw this year, the same thought I did, which

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Speaker 1: is this is all right out of Project twenty twenty five, right,

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Speaker 1: dismantle the Department of Education, give the money back to

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Speaker 1: the states. This will mean you know, the Department of

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Speaker 1: Education famous for Title one funding for poor schools, so

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Speaker 1: that's schools in run districts where state taxes are low,

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Speaker 1: so they don't get as much money. And the other

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Speaker 1: thing that you and I both often talk about is

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Speaker 1: that the Department of Education handles pelgrants. Pelgrants are college

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Speaker 1: scholarships for children who are our neediest kits. Right, you

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Speaker 1: can technically use these grants to go to college. It's

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Speaker 1: interesting to me to see this is one of the many,

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Speaker 1: many ways that you see the Trump administration just declaring

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Speaker 1: war on people who don't have money. But it's also

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Speaker 1: besides declaring war on people who don't have money. What

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Speaker 1: these things do is they make it harder and harder

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Speaker 1: for people in the sort of lower income range to

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Speaker 1: get more education, make more money, and get into a

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Speaker 1: higher income bracket. And so what this does is it

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Speaker 1: creates more of a cast system. It makes it harder

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Speaker 1: for people to move up and make more and have more.

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Speaker 1: It creates more financial inequality, which is something that this

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Speaker 1: country is already being crushed under. And I just want

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Speaker 1: to point out that you know, as bad as dismantling

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Speaker 1: the Department of Education is and you know where it's coming.

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Speaker 1: After they dismantled USAID and they dismantled the parts of

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Speaker 1: the State Department. And this is like doing that but

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Speaker 1: to our show. And it's worth realizing a Elon Musk

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Speaker 1: is out. So this is really just Trump's Republican Party

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Speaker 1: doing this, So don't let them try to blame anyone else.

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Speaker 1: And then the other thing is that we're going to

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Speaker 1: see basically the goal here and we've talked about this

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Speaker 1: before with Project twenty twenty five. The goal here is

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Speaker 1: to make it so the federal government does nothing. Really,

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Speaker 1: it does very little for the people, and at some

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Speaker 1: point people are going to say, well, why why why

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Speaker 1: even have a federal government, And that's what Republicans want.

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Speaker 1: It's trying to provide people with less and less services

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Speaker 1: from the government. So it's infuriating. Linda McMahon is just

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Speaker 1: you know, she has an opportunity here to not do

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Speaker 1: the worst possible thing, and she is in fact going

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Speaker 1: to just do what Trump tells her to, just like

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Speaker 1: everyone else in this administration.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of walking lockstep with dear Leader, everyone is just

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Speaker 2: twisting themselves and knots to block the release of the

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Speaker 2: Epstein files. And now we have all these mega Congress

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Speaker 2: people who just blocked the release of the Upstein files.

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Speaker 2: And I will tell you the funniest thing to watch

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Speaker 2: in the last forty eight hours is how many of

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Speaker 2: these people who do content we're trying to cover up

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Speaker 2: for Trump. And now they're like, nope, we're going to

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Speaker 2: go out the side of the people. They should release

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Speaker 2: the Epstein files because they are seeing the wrath of

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Speaker 2: the MAGA who really want this released. And they don't

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Speaker 2: realize Trump and Epstein were real close friends.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean House Republicans they block the release of

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Speaker 1: the Epstein files. I'm just going to read you a

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Speaker 1: post from one Donald Trump Junior, the intellectual beating heart

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Speaker 1: of the MAGA movement. Show us all the Epstein client

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Speaker 1: lists now. Explanation point. Explanation point, explanation point, why would

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Speaker 1: anyone protect those scum space bags? Question mark? Ask yourself

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Speaker 1: this question daily and the answer becomes very apparent. Explanation point,

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Speaker 1: explanation point, not apparent, but very apparent. Yeah, Well, I

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Speaker 1: asked myself this question. Maybe not daily, but I ask

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Speaker 1: myself this question, and I see that two hundred and

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Speaker 1: eleven Republicans in the House of Representatives voted to block

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Speaker 1: the release of the Epstein files. I wonder what they

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Speaker 1: why they're doing that. That's weird. That's weird. I was

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Speaker 1: I was told the deep state was going to be ended.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, the funny thing is is this is going

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Speaker 2: to bleed a lot of their base from trusting demon.

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Speaker 2: It's another nail in their coffin that I won't be

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Speaker 2: crying over. But I will be crying over, Molly. Yes,

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Speaker 2: inflation because Trump's tariffs are driving it up. As we

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Speaker 2: got a new economic forecast from the Consumer Price Index data.

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Speaker 2: And thank you Bureau of Labor Statistics for giving us

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Speaker 2: the bad news.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you a story here. The one

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Speaker 1: good thing about this is that at least the Bureau

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Speaker 1: of Labor Statistics is not lying to us yet. That

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Speaker 1: was when I said, I was like, Oh, I guess

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Speaker 1: they're not being controlled by Trump. Good job. Trump is

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Speaker 1: trying to fire to roam pal right. He's doing everything

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Speaker 1: he can to try to get rid of Jerome Powell

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Speaker 1: so we can lower interest rates, so that he can

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Speaker 1: completely fuck up the economy. He doesn't realize that's what's

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Speaker 1: going to happen. But that's what's going to happen. I

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Speaker 1: just want to say, tariffs are taxes paid by the consumer.

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Speaker 1: Trump is all about cutting taxes, but he's not cutting tariffs,

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Speaker 1: and this inflationary it's stupid. So much of what's happening

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Speaker 1: right now is just Donald Trump playing stupid games and

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Speaker 1: winning stupid prizes and all of us suffering. So the

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Speaker 1: good news is your strawberries are about to be eight

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Speaker 1: hundred dollars. And the bad news is no, that's the

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Speaker 1: bad news. Dalia Luthwick is a senior editor at Slate

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Speaker 1: and the author of Lady Justice, Women, The Law, and

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Speaker 1: the Battle to Save America. Welcome back to Fast Politics, Dahlia.

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Speaker 3: II, My this has ravaged me, in case you're wondering

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Speaker 3: what she looked like. Ravaged me like being eaten alive

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Speaker 3: from inside by biole and fury and injustice.

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Speaker 1: It strikes me that the Supreme Court has really just

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Speaker 1: done a lot of bad stuff to put, not to

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Speaker 1: speak into specific a way, but there's certainly a big

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Speaker 1: thing we need to talk about, which is the Department

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Speaker 1: of Education, and I want to talk about them first.

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Speaker 1: But in the back of your head start thinking about

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Speaker 1: all of the other incredibly fucked up things they've done

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Speaker 1: when I think about the birthright citizenship decision and why

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Speaker 1: they took that and what that means. But first, let's

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Speaker 1: just talk for a second about this most recent decision

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Speaker 1: where the Supreme Court basically said Trump can do it,

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Speaker 1: yet again said Trump, do you want to do something

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Speaker 1: because we want to help you do stuff. Part of

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Speaker 1: the I think.

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Speaker 3: The term of legal art I'm looking for is like,

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Speaker 3: bitch of this decision is that they actually didn't tell

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Speaker 3: us a thing. Like it's another in a long string

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Speaker 3: of and I know we've talked about this a bunch

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Speaker 3: on your show, Molly, but like this is the most

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Speaker 3: I think egregious example of something that comes out on

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Speaker 3: the shadow docket, which means.

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Speaker 1: Which Deepen Vlatick wrote a whole book about.

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Speaker 3: And I know your listeners know what it is, but

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Speaker 3: it's just worth Like the frame that I'm trying to

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Speaker 3: use is like, if you think that the Supreme Court

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Speaker 3: term ended on the last day of the term when

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Speaker 3: birthright citizenship and all those other horrendous cases came down,

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Speaker 3: like you sell, hook line and sinker for the story

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Speaker 3: they want to tell about themselves, right, which is that

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Speaker 3: they you know, only work from the first Monday of

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Speaker 3: October till the end of June and then they go

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Speaker 3: off on vacation. And that's just not true. We've had

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Speaker 3: a series of emergency orders on the so called shadow docket,

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Speaker 3: each of which has been like as gobsmackingly awful as

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Speaker 3: stuff that was happening on the merits docket. And so

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Speaker 3: I think the reason, like you want to start at

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Speaker 3: the Department of Education isn't just what they did, but

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Speaker 3: how they did it. And the fact that like you know,

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Speaker 3: and I say this on your show, and I'll just

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Speaker 3: say it again, like they have one job, which is

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Speaker 3: to explain why they are doing what they're doing. It's

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Speaker 3: just not good enough to say because we say so

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Speaker 3: and then swawn off to like, you know, wherever they

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Speaker 3: go Cote Dessert or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Right, summer trips was conservative.

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Speaker 3: Donor show your work and explain to us why you

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Speaker 3: just allowed Secretary McMahon to fire half of the employees

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Speaker 3: at the department and you don't tell us why. And

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Speaker 3: so this is another in a series of like I'm

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Speaker 3: trying to think of it as kind of like front

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Speaker 3: stage backstage stuff where like if you're only paying attention

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Speaker 3: to the sixty sum cases that were on the merits

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Speaker 3: dock that were argued and briefed and that the court

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Speaker 3: issued aions and as crap as all that was, and

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Speaker 3: it was, like, to be sure, a very very bad term.

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Speaker 3: What you're missing is that they're getting away with in

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Speaker 3: case after case after case after case, giving Donald Trump

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Speaker 3: everything he wants without explaining why, without giving guidance to

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Speaker 3: the lower courts about how to proceed, without telling the

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Speaker 3: parties how they could possibly fix us. They're just doing

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Speaker 3: these back of the napkin like because we say so.

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Speaker 3: And what's shocking, in addition to the decision itself, is

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Speaker 3: just I think we need to understand that the court,

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Speaker 3: you know, used to use its emergency docket for actual emergency,

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Speaker 3: and the emergency wasn't. Donald Trump didn't get what he wanted,

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Speaker 3: and now you know, case after case after case after case,

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Speaker 3: and he wins in like eighty some percent of the cases.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was actually what I was going to ask

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Speaker 1: you next, was we have seen in this court, not

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Speaker 1: exactly in the same makeup, but pretty much was more

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Speaker 1: than happy not to take Biden administration so they would

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Speaker 1: not take any of that stuff. So it's partially the

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Speaker 1: way they're doing it. It's partially what they are doing,

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Speaker 1: and it's partially their obsession with enabling Donald Trump to

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Speaker 1: grow executive pow.

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Speaker 3: So and you're that's such a good way to sort

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Speaker 3: of layer the cake. It's you know, what they're doing.

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Speaker 3: What they're doing is without explanations, saying that this administration

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Speaker 3: that came into office saying we're going to eviscerate the

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Speaker 3: Department of Education and brought in a Secretary of Education

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Speaker 3: who was like, I'm turning off all the lights and

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Speaker 3: locking the door. I'm the last one, and who said

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Speaker 3: that over and over and over again, right straight out

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Speaker 3: of Project twenty twenty five playbooks, you know anyone, And

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Speaker 3: you know now they're saying, oh, we're not gotting the

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Speaker 3: Department of Ages, We're just streamlining it. And so entire

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Speaker 3: departments who are in charge of financial aid, who are

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Speaker 3: in charge of uage instruction, who are you know, who

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Speaker 3: disperse money that has been appropriated by Congress for the

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Speaker 3: department that was established by Congress and by statute cannot

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Speaker 3: be dissolved willy nilly by the president. And they're saying, oh, no,

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Speaker 3: he's not dissolving it willy nilly, even though that's what

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Speaker 3: he says, and she says.

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Speaker 1: They're just streamlining it.

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Speaker 3: And so then we've got these just buckets and buckets

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Speaker 3: of money that there's nobody to effectuate the will of Congress.

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Speaker 3: And so what's shocking is that the court, you know,

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Speaker 3: if you compare this to when President Joe Biden, who

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Speaker 3: wanted to do loan forgiveness, and that that's what I

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Speaker 3: was like, Yeah, oh shocking. You know, you can't do this,

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Speaker 3: and we don't know who has standing, and let's sit

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Speaker 3: on this, but let's not enjoying it. Let's see like

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Speaker 3: you know, or you know, we let's let the injunction

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Speaker 3: stand and let's just like wait and wait and wait

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Speaker 3: and wait, and then let's like invoke the Major Questions

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Speaker 3: doctrine and say this is a made up doctrine that

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Speaker 3: doesn't allow Joe Biden to do what he wants when

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Speaker 3: he's president. And now we are, and it's like, oh no,

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Speaker 3: this is really exigent that Donald Trump has to be

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Speaker 3: able to We can talk about the hardship. This is

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Speaker 3: going to just unloose on millions and millions and millions

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Speaker 3: of students around the country, you know, particularly with you know, English,

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Speaker 3: non English speaking kids, particularly kids who have any sort

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Speaker 3: of special needs. Like it's massive, massive hardship, and this

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Speaker 3: is just an immense amount of money that's been appropriated

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Speaker 3: that I guess, you know, just doesn't get forked over.

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Speaker 3: But the language that is used by the Trump administration

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Speaker 3: is like cynical to the point of psychotic, like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we're not closing the department, and for the court to

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Speaker 3: just be like, well, we just got to take them

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Speaker 3: at their word. And then just to your last point,

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Speaker 3: which I think is probably the most important point, when

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Speaker 3: President Biden tried to do anything by executive order, when

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Speaker 3: President Biden tried to do anything that would put his

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Speaker 3: vision of the presidency into power, he was rebuffed by

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Speaker 3: the court. And yet now so I think it's the

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Speaker 3: like both the cynicism of taking them at their word,

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Speaker 3: but also the cynicism of just nakedly, nakedly giving this

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Speaker 3: president a maximalist executive authority to do whatever he wants,

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Speaker 3: even though it's clearly unlawful to do this, it's not permitted,

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Speaker 3: And the cynicism of not allowing Biden an inch by

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Speaker 3: the same exact lights. And I think one of the

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Speaker 3: things that sticks in your craw about all of this

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Speaker 3: is that not just that real people are going to

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Speaker 3: suffer immense hardship, but that Kutanji Brown Jackson keeps writing

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Speaker 3: these descents. The dissent in this particular education case comes

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Speaker 3: from Sony Soda Mayor. It's signed off on by Justices

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Speaker 3: Kagan and by Justice Jackson. But I think that by

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Speaker 3: and large, every time one of the these liberal justices writes

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Speaker 3: a dissent that says, look at what you just get there,

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Speaker 3: look at what you're doing here, look at what they said,

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Speaker 3: look at what they promised, and look at the affidavits

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Speaker 3: in this case that show that if you eliminate entire departments,

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Speaker 3: there's nobody to do the work that Congress has authorized,

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Speaker 3: and that nobody wants to even look at it much less.

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Speaker 3: It is veri in a discent because the majority opinion

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Speaker 3: has no law. So this is like the Bad v. Bad.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that I'm struck by is so

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Speaker 1: much of legal scholarship is about picking other cases that

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Speaker 1: back up your point, And here is the Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: that is, you know, a year later, behaving towards a

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Speaker 1: president in a completely opposite way that they did to

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Speaker 1: the previous president.

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Speaker 3: Right, it's reverse engineering every single decision and using whatever

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Speaker 3: doctrine it needs to do that in order to get

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Speaker 3: the outcome at once. And like you say, there isn't

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Speaker 3: even the patina of trying to you know, square the circle.

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Speaker 3: Like there's no attempt to say and this is exactly

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Speaker 3: the same as you know, when we kneecap President Biden,

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Speaker 3: or you know when Biden said, wait, you know universal injunctions,

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Speaker 3: those are hobbling my ability to be the president. Twice Yeah,

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Speaker 3: the CORP was like, no, that's not an issue we

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Speaker 3: want to take up. And like five months into the

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Speaker 3: Trump presidency at like v burning judicial question. And so

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Speaker 3: I think there's a way in which and this is

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Speaker 3: just tricky Molly, like blinkering yourself to the politics of

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Speaker 3: the world is supposed to be like a judge's superpower, right,

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Speaker 3: Like I'm not going to pay attention to the you know,

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Speaker 3: all of the extraneous political things because my job is

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Speaker 3: to like go into the laboratory and like pour justice

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Speaker 3: into the two test tubes until it smokes and then

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Speaker 3: justice appears. And so there's this partly it's that the

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Speaker 3: strength of the judicial project, which is that politics isn't

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Speaker 3: supposed to get in the way of that is also

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Speaker 3: the weakness of the judicial project, which is what you

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Speaker 3: have Justice Jackson being like, that's not how any of

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Speaker 3: this works. Yeah, and why you have Justice Sotomayor saying like,

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Speaker 3: it cannot be the case that we're falling for this

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Speaker 3: over and over again. It's way outside the four corners

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Speaker 3: of the opinion, and it's enraging not just the conservative justices,

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Speaker 3: but like the commentariat that they're talking about, like, how

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Speaker 3: can you not see the patterns here? How can you

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Speaker 3: not see that Trump wins all the time. But they're

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Speaker 3: just doing the thing that is hard for judges to do,

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Speaker 3: which is like, look at what the world has brought us,

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Speaker 3: you know, look at what the world has brought to us.

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Speaker 1: So Alino and Thomas, you give up, right, those guys

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Speaker 1: are never going to do They're going to just Trump

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Speaker 1: can do anything. He's a god king. Gorsic and Kavanaugh

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Speaker 1: are basically the younger versions ultimately really with the exception

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Speaker 1: of Native Americans, right. For Gorsic, Yeah, Roberts pretends to

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Speaker 1: be normal, but obviously isn't because of all these decisions,

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Speaker 1: and then you do have this one smart conservative justice,

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Speaker 1: right just as Amy, who is by no means in

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Speaker 1: any stretch of the imagination, a liberal. She's very religious

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Speaker 1: and comes from very very religious stock, and she you know,

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Speaker 1: was at uh she practiced taught at very religious you know.

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Speaker 1: But she is smart, because we know that from the

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Speaker 1: oral arguments. I mean, so I just wonder you think

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Speaker 1: that she just sort of is like, I'm just going

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Speaker 1: to go along with this anyway because the numbers aren't there.

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Speaker 1: I mean, what do you think the calculus there is,

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Speaker 1: or do you think that she's not. Ultimately she's just

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Speaker 1: a partisan like every like the others.

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Speaker 3: You and I spoke on several occasions this year where

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Speaker 3: Justice Barrett was like hiving up and some times with

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Speaker 3: John Roberts right being the center of the court, sometimes

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Speaker 3: even with Brett Kavanaugh. That's been a pattern we've seen

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Speaker 3: the last couple of years. You know, there were a

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Speaker 3: lot of people who were prepared to say that the Barrett,

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Speaker 3: who was joining the liberal justices in several important cases

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Speaker 3: here sort of represented some new you know, two point

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Speaker 3: oh Amy Cony Barrett, and we had a lot of

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Speaker 3: theories about why that was. I don't know that it

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Speaker 3: was about smartness. I think it was just that there

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Speaker 3: was a sense that she and John Roberts were pretty

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Speaker 3: temperate and at minimum were institutionalists, at minimum didn't want

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Speaker 3: to sit on the last Supreme Court in American constitutional history,

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Speaker 3: and that they were sort of modulating what they might

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Speaker 3: have done at the ballot box or what they might

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Speaker 3: have done if we weren't in a crisis, because they

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Speaker 3: understood the moment we're in, and they understood that the

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Speaker 3: far right flank of the Court is, you know, all

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Speaker 3: in for Project twenty twenty five and Stephen Miller and

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Speaker 3: Steve Bannon and who that Amy Cony Barrett not in

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Speaker 3: evidence At the end of the term. These were six

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Speaker 3: three decisions on everything that mattered, with few exceptions. Justice

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Speaker 3: Barrett voted in lockstep with the Conservatives. She was given

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Speaker 3: the opinion in birthright Citizenship, which is right USA arguably

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Speaker 3: the most important case of the term, and she kind

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Speaker 3: of made their dreams come true. I mean, she wrote this,

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Speaker 3: like Cuckoo Banana's originalist reading of nationwide injunctions, that you

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Speaker 3: did what the majority wanted her to do. So I

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Speaker 3: don't think I'm prepared to say anymore that that center

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Speaker 3: of the court that we have seen mostly manifest in

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Speaker 3: Barrett and Roberts in some really important issues, and certainly

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Speaker 3: at the beginning of this term, I don't know where

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Speaker 3: they are, but they're not here as to the why

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Speaker 3: of it. I think you're probably right, Molly, like some

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Speaker 3: of it is like this is the stuff they of, right,

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Speaker 3: maximalist readings of an executive theory of power in which

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Speaker 3: the president is all powerful unless there's Joe Biden, and

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Speaker 3: you know, a sort of constriction on voting rights and

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Speaker 3: on civil liberties, and a constriction on an awareness of

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Speaker 3: racial injustice and LGBTQ rights, and then of course, you know,

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Speaker 3: swing for the fences on religious liberty for certain kinds

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Speaker 3: of religions. That's the project in some sense, that's why

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Speaker 3: they were put on the court. And so I don't

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Speaker 3: know that there's a lot of light between their own

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Speaker 3: views of the world and the doctrine that they were

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Speaker 3: pulling from. I guess what changed for me and what

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Speaker 3: mystifies me, And I think this is your question is

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Speaker 3: are they not aware of the peril that they are

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Speaker 3: putting both the court in and the country in and

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Speaker 3: that they are kind of making a bargain with the devil,

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Speaker 3: and that you can give Trump every single thing he wants,

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Speaker 3: and the minute you say no, he's going to take

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Speaker 3: it any way. And I thought they were savvy enough

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Speaker 3: to understand that you can't accommodate this and you can't

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Speaker 3: barge with this. But you know, at the end of

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Speaker 3: the day, I think they genuinely feel that they are

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Speaker 3: protecting the Court's power and the Court's prerogatives and the

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Speaker 3: Court's supremacy by essentially being in this kind of weird

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Speaker 3: codependent relationship an imperial presidency in bed with an imperial court,

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Speaker 3: and that this is the way to protect the institution

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Speaker 3: and to protect the presidency. And I guess, you know,

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Speaker 3: the really sad code of the coda to that story

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Speaker 3: is at the end of the term in the you know,

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Speaker 3: in the birthright citizenship case, they recapped the rest of

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Speaker 3: the Article three judiciary to get that. I mean, they

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00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 3: really went after explicitly district court judges who are just

433
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 3: doing their jobs, who have been the bulwark, the single

434
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 3: most effective check on a runaway president. And they went

435
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 3: after those judges without any regret or without any sense

436
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 3: that what they were doing in making themselves an imperial

437
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 3: court was throwing the rest of the Article three judiciary

438
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:20,120
Speaker 3: on the dumpster.

439
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: So let's talk for a minute about what it means

440
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:31,439
Speaker 1: to even take the birthright citizenship case up, because I

441
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: think that that is a case that has had some

442
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: coverage problems. Can you just explain a little bit for

443
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 1: our listeners about that case. It was big case, and

444
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: I think it has more meaning than maybe we think.

445
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 3: I mean, I think it was probably the case of

446
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 3: the term and in some sense it checked every box

447
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 3: of how Donald Trump's going to do stuff right by

448
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 3: executive order right, which is not the way we make change.

449
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:10,880
Speaker 3: And essentially on the first day in office again, campaign

450
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,639
Speaker 3: promise fulfilled just kind of like taking a sharpie and

451
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 3: like scribbling out section one of the fourteenth Amendment that says,

452
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 3: if you're born in this country, you are an American

453
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 3: and doesn't matter, you know, with narrow exceptions like if

454
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 3: you're the kid of a diplomat or an invader. Those

455
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 3: are the exceptions. That was the intent. This was meant

456
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 3: to correct for, you know, the egregious sins of slavery

457
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 3: and what it meant to be right stateless in some

458
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 3: states if you were born in some states and not

459
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 3: in others. It is perfectly clear what section one of

460
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 3: the fourteenth Amendment conferred on people. It has been ratified

461
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,719
Speaker 3: in case law from the Supreme Court, it has been

462
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 3: ratified in statutes. This is not a question. And Trump

463
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 3: just took it upon himself to say, Nope, we are

464
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 3: going to distort the language subject to the jurisdiction thereof,

465
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 3: to mean that unless your parents are either citizens or

466
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 3: they are you know, Green card holders or other lawful

467
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 3: permanent residents, if you are born here, even if your

468
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 3: parents are both on student visas, you're not a citizen.

469
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 3: And don't care what the case law says, don't care

470
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 3: what the statutes stay. And in a normal world, a

471
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 3: no president would attempt to do this. And in a

472
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 3: normal world what would happen is what happened, which is

473
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,440
Speaker 3: in three different district courts, judges said, this is bonkers.

474
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 3: This is not the way the parting Amendment has ever

475
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 3: been read. No serious person reads it this way, and

476
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 3: we're enjoining it across the country, and appeals courts all agreed.

477
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 3: And in normal world, the Trump administration, if they genuinely

478
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 3: wanted to have this fight, would take it to the

479
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 3: Supreme Court and say, decide this on the marits. Does

480
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 3: Fortique Amendment mean what it says it means and what

481
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 3: everyone who has reviewed it.

482
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 1: A hundred years agree.

483
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 3: They didn't do that. They didn't ask that question of

484
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 3: the court. They just said, we want to take this

485
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 3: narrow question of whether a single judge in a single

486
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:19,120
Speaker 3: district can enjoin a policy across the country, and we're

487
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 3: going to take that to the Court, and that's the

488
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 3: only thing we're going to ask the Court to deal with.

489
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 3: And to be fair, we kind of said this earlier.

490
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 3: Nationwide injunctions were a huge problem for President Biden, huge

491
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 3: problem in the first Trump administration, problem for Obama. Right,

492
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 3: you take a case to Judge Matthew Chasmeric and Amorial

493
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 3: and techn where you have a one hundred percent of

494
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 3: getting Judge Matthew Chasmeric and he'll go ahead and say

495
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 3: that mefipristone has to be taken off the market. So

496
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 3: this is a problem for both presidents, right, It has

497
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 3: been a problem for years. The problem is that when

498
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 3: Joe Biden was faced with nationwide injunctions, for instance in

499
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:03,479
Speaker 3: the student relief cases, he said, hey, Supreme Court This

500
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 3: is really problematic. This single judge can enjoin a policy

501
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 3: around the country for everyone, and the Supreme Court had

502
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 3: no interest in taking that question. Was no interest, right,

503
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 3: They had opportunities to resolve this burning problem, and they're like, nah,

504
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 3: we're good. And five months into the Trump administration, here

505
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 3: we are. This is the exigent question. And so again

506
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 3: it a little bit goes to the lies you have

507
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 3: to tell yourself as a jurist about we can have

508
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 3: a bracing, difficult conversation about whether single judges should be

509
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 3: allowed to enjoin policies around the country. The fact that

510
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 3: we didn't want to have it Haven's months ago, and

511
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 3: we need to have it right now, and the answer

512
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 3: has to be noe. That a judge cannot do this

513
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 3: feels like the most cynical thing in the world. And

514
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 3: when you kind of couple that with the ways in

515
00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 3: which this administration has been running every single case that

516
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 3: they lose up to the Supreme Court and being like me, me, me, me,

517
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 3: mister relief, and the Court's just like, yes, my son, yes,

518
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 3: my son.

519
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: Yes.

520
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 3: There's no such thing as a political question doctrine. That's

521
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 3: only for Joe Biden, right, There's no such constraint on

522
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 3: this president. And so I think what you're seeing is

523
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 3: not just the court given the opportunity to answer a

524
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 3: question which, by the way, Molly, I think the answer went.

525
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 3: If they ever take Section one of the fourteenth Amendment,

526
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 3: does it confers it is chip on everyone born in

527
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 3: the States. I think the answer will be yes. It

528
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 3: is going to be very hard for them to find

529
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 3: otherwise the choice to not decide that in this case.

530
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 3: The choice instead is a real choice to hobble the

531
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 3: district court judges, who again are the only thing restraining

532
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 3: the only check that exists right super in Congress and

533
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 3: hollowing out the rest of government is these district court

534
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 3: judges in to turn on them and be like, who

535
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 3: are these self aggrandizing lunatics? You think they know everything?

536
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 3: And that's you know what's frightening about this is the

537
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 3: contempt for judges.

538
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 1: Yes, Dahlia, I love you and I never want to

539
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: cut you off because you're amazing. Thank you, thank you,

540
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: thank you, Dahlia.

541
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you, thank you. Mollie, take good care

542
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 3: of yourself.

543
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 1: Will Sommer is a reporter at The Bulwark and the

544
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: author of Trust the Plan. Welcome to fast politics, Will.

545
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 4: Sommer, Thanks for having me.

546
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: We cover a lot of stupid crap. Not to put

547
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 1: too fine a point on it, but what is happening

548
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: right now with Ebstein bringing down Donald Trump not in

549
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: the way you thought he would, is pretty amazing. So

550
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: talk us through sort of how we got to this very,

551
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:52,959
Speaker 1: very stupid moment in American history.

552
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 4: Okay, so let's take it back to the early George W.

553
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 4: Bush administration. There is a guy on the scene, let's

554
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 4: say to that too. There is a mega rich guy

555
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 4: named Jeffrey Epstein who is inexplicably wealthy. He has some

556
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 4: financial connections. He worked there. He's like a hedge fund guy,

557
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 4: but he's way wealthier than that. Then makes sense. I

558
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,239
Speaker 4: mean he has homes in Palm Beach, a huge home

559
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 4: in Manhattan, a ranch out West. I mean, he's all

560
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 4: over the place. And he's also friends with a lot

561
00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 4: of really wealthy people, powerful people like Bill Clinton, Bill Gates,

562
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 4: and notably Donald Trump.

563
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: Right, Bill Richardson, the governor of New Mexico.

564
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,479
Speaker 4: Bill Richardson, And he takes and he's known Trump at

565
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 4: one point, I think he's done, Trump says. The late eighties.

566
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 4: Trump says that in two thousand and two, and there

567
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 4: are these videos of him and Trump paleling around. They're

568
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 4: kind of like at the side of a dance floor,

569
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 4: and they look kind of like they're like picking out

570
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 4: which women they want to pursue, and Trump in two

571
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 4: thousand and two, in a profile of Epstein, says, you know, essentially,

572
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 4: Jeffrey is a very a kind of a man about town,

573
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 4: and he likes women, maybe even more than I do,

574
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 4: some of them very young. So it seems almost like

575
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 4: Trump already knows Epstein's deal, and then they kind of

576
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 4: drift apart. Epstein catches these charges for basically offering young women,

577
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 4: like for offering girls like sexual massages in exchange for money.

578
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 4: But then he gets this weird plea deal from the

579
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 4: federal government that basically lets him skate on nearly all

580
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 4: the charges, and then in he sort of rejoins this

581
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 4: high powered world. And then in twenty nineteen he's indicted

582
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 4: on federal charges for the first time, and then that

583
00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,240
Speaker 4: summer he's found dead in his prison cell in Manhattan.

584
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: Right and fast forward to magworld in general has long

585
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: fanned the flames of conspiracies. Pretty much everybody in that

586
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: world has had some different conspiracy theory they've ran with,

587
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: from QAnon to you know, Sandy hook being you know,

588
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of Alex Jones. I mean, all different members

589
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 1: of MAGA world have fanned the flames of conspiracies, including

590
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: Donald Trump his first administration, when he said things like

591
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: he said where we go, one, we go all? He

592
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 1: retweeted lots of q and on stuff. They played a

593
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: q and On song. At one point, didn't he have

594
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,760
Speaker 1: do some sort of homage to QAnon?

595
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,240
Speaker 4: You know, he was asked, can you dissuade these quanon

596
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 4: crazy people that you're pursuing the pedophile cabal? And he said, well,

597
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 4: you know, maybe they're right about that, and you know,

598
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 4: would that be such a bad thing?

599
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 3: Right?

600
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 1: So, at every point when Trump has been able to

601
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,280
Speaker 1: sort of squash this idea that there's a deep state,

602
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 1: he has in fact just encouraged it.

603
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know he's promoted it. I mean, I

604
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 4: think he saw the idea of like this kind of sinister,

605
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 4: shadowy force that's out to get him as very advantageous

606
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 4: because then he could chalk up any criminal prosecution he faced,

607
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 4: or really any opposition as sort of this sinister force

608
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 4: that's out to get him unfairly.

609
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: So it worked well until it didn't. Yes, So he

610
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 1: comes back into office, he's, you know, we're going to

611
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: release the Jeffrey Epstein stuff. Then we see Pambondy, who

612
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,240
Speaker 1: is you know, his ag brings a lot of MAGA

613
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: influencers to the Justice Department.

614
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 4: Oh no, Mollie, it's actually a little crazier. It was

615
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 4: not for a meeting with Pambondi. So this is late February,

616
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 4: roughly around February twenty. First she's asked, do you have

617
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 4: the EPSTCEN client list? She says, it's on my desk.

618
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 4: I'm going to review the Epstein case for release. Then

619
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 4: six days after that, a bunch of right wing influencers

620
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 4: Jack Pisovic, Mike Cernovich lives of TikTok are visiting the

621
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 4: White House and she in sort of a and they

622
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,279
Speaker 4: they're therefore meetings with administration officials. It's not supposed to

623
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 4: be an Epstein thing. And then she shows up with

624
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,359
Speaker 4: Cash Betel and these binders that say Epstein, you know,

625
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 4: we release phase one and hands them out and then

626
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 4: disastrously they pose for pictures with that as sort of

627
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 4: like you know, big smiles with the human trafficking evidence.

628
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 4: It all turns out to be public info anyway, It

629
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:55,919
Speaker 4: blows up in everyone's face.

630
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,760
Speaker 1: And I want to point out that was stage one,

631
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: so theoretic, so you don't put numbers on things unless

632
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: there are going to be other stages, right.

633
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 4: Yes, that's a right, So you would think there's a

634
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 4: stage two at least to come.

635
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 1: Right, but there has not been a stage two.

636
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 4: There's not, And the pressure kind of ramps up that

637
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 4: then you know, she starts saying she gets caught on

638
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 4: tape bragging about all the videos they have, and then

639
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 4: so then she has to come out and say it publicly,

640
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:22,520
Speaker 4: and so they're kind of getting pushed towards more and

641
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 4: more disclosure. And then Elon says, you know, well, the

642
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 4: reason you're never going to get the Epstein files is

643
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 4: because Trump's in.

644
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 1: Them, right, Which was a pretty amazing moment because I

645
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: think that was the moment when Elon said that about

646
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:38,919
Speaker 1: Trump and Epstein. I think that was the moment where

647
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 1: it became clear that Elon was never going to be

648
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: invited back into the White House. Do you think that's fair?

649
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 4: That was the moment, I would say, cat to her

650
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 4: truly lost faith in Elon. You know that was when

651
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 4: the like, you know before it's kind of like it

652
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:53,839
Speaker 4: was like I believe Jack was Zobac said, you know,

653
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 4: before Elon mentioned the Epsteine stuff, he was like, you know,

654
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 4: this is how two alpha males fight, like in a

655
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 4: very fallous way, like the Big Boys loved a rough House.

656
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:05,359
Speaker 4: And then as soon as the epstein stuff hits, people go, whoa.

657
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 4: I mean, because you know he's calling Trumpet pedophile and

658
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 4: so in fairness, at that point, you know, there's no

659
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 4: coming back from that.

660
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the moment Elon decided that he didn't

661
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: want that huge base of supporters anyway. Bondi releases stuff

662
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:25,280
Speaker 1: that turns out to be nothing. Magelworld gets furious. They're

663
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 1: on a Monday, so about a week ago, a little

664
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: more than a week ago, the Trump DOJ releases a

665
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: statement which basically says, there's nothing to see here.

666
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 4: This is so weird. There was no sense of we're

667
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 4: going to have the decision that comes out by X

668
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 4: date or you know, we're going to review it. They

669
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 4: just Sunday night. I believe that it was the long

670
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,800
Speaker 4: July fourth weekend. They leak to Axios that you know, okay,

671
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 4: we're closing it up, and it says very specifically, it

672
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,760
Speaker 4: says Epstein killed himself. There's no one else to charge.

673
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,919
Speaker 4: We're not putting out any more documents. It's a right.

674
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: You could see a federal government doing that, like they

675
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 1: did that on JFK ultimately the JFK assassination, and then

676
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: they kept stuff, you know whatever. But the brass tax

677
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: here is that you can't release information about private people

678
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 1: unless you are going to pursue legal charges. Right. The

679
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: federal government is not a publicity. I mean, with the

680
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:27,320
Speaker 1: exception of some things that have been leaked by members

681
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 1: of Trump world and Biden world too, But you can't

682
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 1: just release stuff that implicates people if you're not going

683
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 1: to press charges.

684
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 4: Right, I mean, that's theoretically at least, you wouldn't be

685
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 4: putting that out there, you know. Obviously the Trump administration,

686
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 4: I think it is more into a sort of accusing

687
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:43,399
Speaker 4: people randomly without charges, right.

688
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 1: Trump himself likes to do that.

689
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 4: If they had some file that said, you know, X

690
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 4: guy was with epstcene that wasn't substantiated, they wouldn't want

691
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 4: to release that exactly.

692
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: And one of the reasons why you don't do that

693
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,320
Speaker 1: is because you can be sued, right, the federal government

694
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: can be sued, like if they say whoever was on

695
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:02,840
Speaker 1: Epstein's place and then it's not true or there's no

696
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,000
Speaker 1: backup or whatever, they can theoretically be.

697
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 4: Sued for that, right, I mean exactly if they just

698
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 4: started accusing people, you know, willy nilly. Yeah.

699
00:39:11,120 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 1: So Trump then is asked by a reporter about the

700
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,399
Speaker 1: Epstein stuff. It's like one of the first times I've

701
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 1: ever seen him have no sense of what the base wants.

702
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: So talk us through sort of how Trump has dealt

703
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 1: with the fallout.

704
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 4: Sure so, so on the Tuesday after the release of

705
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 4: the memo, Trump's asked about it and they said, you know,

706
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 4: what's going on with this? Why are you closing this up?

707
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 4: Is nothing else going to come out? And he just

708
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 4: goes stop talking about Epstein. No one cares. The I

709
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,320
Speaker 4: can't believe you're still talking about Epstein. We're trying to

710
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 4: talk about all my great womins. This is unbelievable. Move on,

711
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 4: and so is that kind of thing that that sort

712
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:47,879
Speaker 4: of language I think really antagonizes the bass, as you said,

713
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 4: just saying, you know, don't believe your own eyes, just

714
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:51,280
Speaker 4: go over.

715
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: It, right. And it's also the case for him getting

716
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: back in office was that he was going to solve

717
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 1: this you know q a non child trafficking lie that

718
00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: doesn't exist exactly.

719
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 4: I mean, so that was you know, JD. Vance was saying,

720
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 4: you know, we got to release the the Epstein list.

721
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 4: Cash Fattel was saying, you know, the FBI director controls

722
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 4: the list. I mean, there was this idea that there

723
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 4: was going to be I mean when people talk about

724
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,359
Speaker 4: like the corruption, you know, when Crum's worries talking about

725
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 4: the corruption, often really what they mean is like the

726
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 4: pedophile cabal, and you kind of like prod them a little.

727
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 4: And they are talking about like like green energy contracts

728
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 4: that are gone awry or something. I mean, that's what

729
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 4: they're talking about. And so this, I think, this idea

730
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 4: that Trump was going to like you know, purge the

731
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 4: government of all these villains, you know, was a big deal.

732
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:42,960
Speaker 4: And now he's just saying, oh, you know, let's just

733
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:44,399
Speaker 4: move on, right, right.

734
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 1: I was going to purge the government of villains. But

735
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 1: now I am just going to not do that. Sorry, sorry, folks.

736
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 4: And there's gonna be no explanation. It's just you know,

737
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 4: we're done boring.

738
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 1: Tell us how magaworld has reacted. And so many of

739
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 1: these people Trump elevate. I mean, Laura Lumer would not

740
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,240
Speaker 1: be Laura Lumor without her relationship with Donald Trump.

741
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 4: No, I mean she would be. And we've seen what

742
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 4: Laura Lumor's like when Trump doesn't care about her, and

743
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:12,440
Speaker 4: you know, she's kind of lost in the wilderness in

744
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,800
Speaker 4: Flora and chaining herself to Twitter headquarters. So in this case,

745
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 4: the reaction was really negative. And there's a unique thing

746
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 4: going on here because the Epstein case is so emotionally

747
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,439
Speaker 4: resonant that when Trump does something that they care less

748
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 4: about in MAGA, like let's say he has a credible

749
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 4: azadors believe these heavy things like giving weapons to Ukraine

750
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,360
Speaker 4: or bombing Iran. I mean, these are not as intense

751
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 4: issues as Epstein is, and so people can kind of

752
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 4: get in line on these other issues. But with Epscene,

753
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:39,920
Speaker 4: I mean they're really risking in terms of these like

754
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 4: right wing media figures. They're really risking their relationships with

755
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 4: their audience because there's tape, there's hours of tape of

756
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 4: them talking about how important Epstein is.

757
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we saw a lot of people in Trump

758
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 1: world freak out about this. The one that I think

759
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 1: is sort of the most interesting is Lara Trump. So

760
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,280
Speaker 1: Lara Trump is the one member of the Trump family

761
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 1: that is making a calculus about running for office, and

762
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: so she says more is going to come out. So

763
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 1: she's decided at kicking the can is the only way

764
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 1: to do this. And I'm a little bit surprised that

765
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:15,399
Speaker 1: Trump didn't do that. Why do you think Trump didn't

766
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 1: do that? What do you think is happening here?

767
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 4: Have some theories. I think you're right. I mean, we

768
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,919
Speaker 4: had this sort of weak, nine day, real blow up

769
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 4: about it, and I think what's going on here is

770
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 4: the administration is trying to get back to the sort

771
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 4: of like strategic ambiguity about like who knows when the

772
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 4: files will be released, but we aren't saying they won't

773
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 4: be released. And you might say, well, why did they

774
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 4: ever put out this memo closing the case that started

775
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 4: all this trouble?

776
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 1: Yeah? Why did they?

777
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 4: I wonder if it's because Elon was saying Trump's in

778
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 4: the files, and then Trump just got to he was like,

779
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 4: I'm sick of hearing about these damn files. Just put

780
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 4: you know, perhaps because he's you know, embarrassed or implicated

781
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,680
Speaker 4: in some way, or you know, who knows there's somebody

782
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:53,399
Speaker 4: he doesn't like in the files, and so he says,

783
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,359
Speaker 4: you know, we are going to just shut this down,

784
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,360
Speaker 4: and we're going to signal to the base that it's over.

785
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 4: You know, this is done. I think the reality is,

786
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 4: you know, I think perhaps he overestimated or his henchmen,

787
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 4: you know, or the administration overestimated his sort of hold

788
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 4: over the messaging on the base.

789
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, clearly someone forgot that the base that

790
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 1: they're not zombies, that they in fact have believes that

791
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: have been stoked that you're now telling them no longer exist.

792
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: When I think about Trump world this, you think about

793
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 1: these people who have personally suffered for Trump, like the

794
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: January sixth people, or the people who have you know,

795
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:34,879
Speaker 1: lost things because of their devotion to Trump and trump Ism,

796
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 1: and those people did that because they thought that Trump

797
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 1: would ultimately provide them the things that they needed to

798
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 1: gratify their worldview. Is this as sort of coming down

799
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 1: from that. I mean, here he's just saying, no, none

800
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:52,240
Speaker 1: of that is real.

801
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 4: I think it is a case of Trump just saying,

802
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,360
Speaker 4: you know that these people have to live in reality,

803
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 4: which or at least you know who does. That's certainly

804
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 4: what he's claiming is going on, and that's not something

805
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 4: they're really used to hearing from him. I mean they're

806
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:07,360
Speaker 4: used to him saying, you know, you can have everything

807
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 4: you want, and you know, we're going to pour all

808
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:10,839
Speaker 4: these people you don't like, and then your rent's gonna

809
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 4: go down. Food's going to be cheap. And this is

810
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 4: the one time where he's saying, you know, kind of

811
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 4: grow up. This is the situation, get over it, and

812
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 4: you know when it comes. I think if that was

813
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 4: about another issue, that'd be one thing. But I think

814
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 4: when you're saying that about get over what you believe

815
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 4: in what we've told you is a pedophile cabal, I

816
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:27,760
Speaker 4: think that's very difficult.

817
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a fundamental disconnect with what he's been

818
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:36,160
Speaker 1: doing this entire time. So he just came out, I'm

819
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 1: going to break a little news here. I don't know

820
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: if you saw this. Jesse just sent it to me. Jesse,

821
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 1: can we play this clip that is happening as we

822
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,719
Speaker 1: are talking, because I think, well, we'll have something to

823
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:48,359
Speaker 1: say about it.

824
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,399
Speaker 4: You know, these files were made up by Komi. They

825
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 4: were made up by Obama, they were made up by

826
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 4: the Biden from.

827
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:58,400
Speaker 1: You know, and we went through years of that with

828
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 1: the Russia Russia Russia hooks. I really do not like

829
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: James Comy because I find him he's too tall, number one,

830
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 1: and then also he writes these terrible plot boilers, and

831
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 1: also he made it Hillary Clinton lose the election. But

832
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 1: I don't think he created the Epstein files discuss.

833
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the challenge Trump is facing here, like

834
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 4: you can, this just seems like someone was like make

835
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 4: up a conspiracy theory on the spot, go go go,

836
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 4: like he's flailing. I mean, we saw this with the

837
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 4: cabinet thing, where you just had just shut up, you know,

838
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 4: we get over it. A lot of these things when

839
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 4: you have kind of like a counter narrative, like, for example,

840
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,799
Speaker 4: the sort of right wing counter narrative to the Russia investigation,

841
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 4: you have to have like some kernel of truth, like

842
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 4: you have to have emails where FBI agents are talking

843
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:49,600
Speaker 4: about how much they dislike Trump, or with Ukraine and Biden,

844
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 4: you have to have Hunter Biden actually having a weird

845
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,839
Speaker 4: board seat with Barisma. But in this case, I mean,

846
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 4: there's no connection between Comy and Epstein or Obama and Epstein,

847
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:01,399
Speaker 4: and this thing has been hyped up. I mean, Jade

848
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:02,719
Speaker 4: danced just a few months ago. I was like, I

849
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 4: can't wait to see the client list. And now you're saying,

850
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 4: are you saying Jade Vance is a dufis who doesn't

851
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,319
Speaker 4: you know, know what he's talking about? So it just

852
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 4: is completely different than like all the groundwork that's already

853
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 4: been late.

854
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 1: I would like to blame James call mey for something

855
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 1: he made Hillary Goton lose the election. Isn't that enough?

856
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 1: It does feel like panic. It does feel like Trump

857
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: is sort of flailing on this. We've seen a bunch

858
00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:30,280
Speaker 1: of MAGA influencers. We see Charlie Kirk is now throwing

859
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:33,759
Speaker 1: the line. Some of them are coming back saying there's

860
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,879
Speaker 1: nothing to see here. But in some ways I think

861
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:38,520
Speaker 1: that's made the problem a little worse.

862
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 4: I agree with you. There's this sense of you know,

863
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 4: you're talking about we're talking about this in the Epstein,

864
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 4: the thing that the idea of like this very sinister

865
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 4: cabal that controls everyone and it's rending the truths from

866
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 4: getting out. And then suddenly you have people like Charlie

867
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 4: Kirk or Dnesh Jsuza, who are taking like what counts

868
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 4: in their world as like a relatively brave stand is

869
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 4: standing up to Trump and then suddenly they go, you know,

870
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 4: never mind, you know, right, but forgive me, you know,

871
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 4: and you get this sense of this like hid in hand.

872
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,839
Speaker 4: And you know it's reported that Trump called Charlie Kirk

873
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 4: and said, hey, cut it out, and so I agree,

874
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 4: it does look like I think that fuels it even more.

875
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. What would happen in a conspiracy, right,

876
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: is that people would get.

877
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 4: Silenced exactly, and people would suddenly say, oh, you know,

878
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:26,960
Speaker 4: I have too much to lose here, I need to

879
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,439
Speaker 4: stop talking about what I genuinely want to talk about

880
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 4: or what my audience cares about. It's a real meth

881
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:33,319
Speaker 4: and you know, they're trying to kind of square the

882
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:36,720
Speaker 4: circle by saying, like Charlie Kirk and I think Banna,

883
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,320
Speaker 4: they were complaining that why isn't the media asking Trump

884
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 4: more questions about Epstein? So Trump knows how important Epstein

885
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 4: is to us and we'll really go after it. I mean,

886
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:46,439
Speaker 4: it's like they're trying to blame these people that really

887
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:47,239
Speaker 4: aren't culpable.

888
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 1: Yes, it is once again the media's fault. Thank you,

889
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:55,640
Speaker 1: fellow member of the media, Will Soma, thanks.

890
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:55,880
Speaker 4: For having me.

891
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:04,560
Speaker 5: No moment, Jesse Cannon, I have to tell you, I

892
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:09,359
Speaker 5: usually find the petty squabbles between states of like California

893
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 5: and Florida and Texas to be silly, but this one

894
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 5: popping the popcorn.

895
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 2: Like as Governor Abbott threatens redistricting to get less congressional

896
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,760
Speaker 2: districts and potentially get rid of Jasmine Crockett's district, Gavin

897
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 2: Newsom's fighting back.

898
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 1: So this is interesting. Here's what's happening. I'm going to

899
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:29,760
Speaker 1: say something here that I think everyone knows and maybe

900
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:33,760
Speaker 1: we're not talking about. Gavin Newsom is running for president. Yeah, okay,

901
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,400
Speaker 1: he's running for president. He can say whatever he wants.

902
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 1: My man is running for president. Now, you and I

903
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 1: are both very cynical because we live in politics world

904
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: and so we see everyone at their worst. But what

905
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 1: Newsom is denial here, no denial. What Newsom is doing

906
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:56,720
Speaker 1: here is he is pushing real hard. And as someone

907
00:48:56,719 --> 00:49:00,359
Speaker 1: who has seen a lot of Democrats really disappoint over

908
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:03,879
Speaker 1: the last couple of months, even if right, I mean

909
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 1: really really disappoint And we know you guys, our listeners

910
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 1: are as irritated as anyone about what's happening with Democrats.

911
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 1: And we know that because you guys turn off when

912
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: we have a lot of different Democratic electeds. We know who.

913
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 1: We get it, man.

914
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,160
Speaker 2: We see what you don't listen to a certain episodes.

915
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:28,280
Speaker 1: Exactly. There's no secret here. But what Gavin is doing

916
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 1: is he is fighting really hard and that's what all

917
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 1: of us wanted. So Texas is Greg Abbott wants to

918
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 1: redistrict because look, Republicans don't want to lose the house.

919
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 1: You know why they don't want to lose the house.

920
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 1: Can you guess Donald Trump is going to get impeached again?

921
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:45,400
Speaker 1: Maybe once, maybe twice, maybe three times. I mean, how

922
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 1: much time do we have because Trump is doing crimes.

923
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 1: So they don't want to lose a house, and they're

924
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 1: trying to figure out any which way do not lose

925
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 1: the house. And the thing they've decided is they're going

926
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 1: to draw new maps. But here's the thing about that.

927
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:02,959
Speaker 1: New California is a big state, right, Texas big state.

928
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 1: California is a biger state. So Newsom wants to meet

929
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:09,840
Speaker 1: Abbot where he is and look these people an Abbot,

930
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 1: I think this is certainly true, and newsome I think

931
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:15,400
Speaker 1: this is also true. Bohletys really want to be president.

932
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: But I don't care why they're doing it. I want

933
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 1: them to do it because it is the only way

934
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 1: that any of this is going to stop is if

935
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:25,799
Speaker 1: Democrats say, if you're going to do that, we're going

936
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 1: to do it too. Because what's happened for the last

937
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 1: decade is that Republicans have done stuff and Democrats have said,

938
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:33,760
Speaker 1: when you go low, we go high. And the reality

939
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,439
Speaker 1: is it's got to be when you go low, we

940
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 1: go low. So you stop going low. That's the only

941
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:42,279
Speaker 1: way to do it. So as much as this may

942
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 1: be out of a lot of our comfort zones, as

943
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 1: the quote unquote good guys that has not worked for

944
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:50,400
Speaker 1: the last eight years, that ship sailed, yeah, I think

945
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,319
Speaker 1: that we got to just remember that we're trying to

946
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: protect democracy here and this is what it is man.

947
00:50:57,640 --> 00:50:57,879
Speaker 4: Yeah.

948
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 2: I think another interesting thing is Gavin news really wasn't

949
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 2: reading the room well at first with his podcast bookings.

950
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:05,359
Speaker 2: Now it seems he's reading the room a lot better,

951
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 2: and I hope a lot of other democratic politicians learned

952
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 2: to read the room.

953
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:10,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I also think you don't need to

954
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 1: just go on other people's podcasts. You don't have to

955
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:16,719
Speaker 1: start your own podcasts. Man, just govern, how about governing? Yep,

956
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 1: that's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

957
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear the best

958
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If

959
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend

960
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.