1 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Hey, this is anning and welcome to stuff. I've never 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:09,960 Speaker 1: told your production of I Heart Radios how stuff works. 3 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: And we're back with another edition of feminist Movie Friday. 4 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 1: And this one is kind of a departure because we've 5 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: done superhero movies and horrors. Yeah, so we're trying to 6 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: mix it up. Yeah. I thought this would be a 7 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: little more lighthearted, Yeah, as opposed to the Revenge episodes 8 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 1: that we just completed. And funnily enough, even though it 9 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: is more lighthearted, I would definitely agree. We have to 10 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 1: put a trigger a warding in here for suicide and 11 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 1: very brief mention of sexual assault. Yeah, you are pretty 12 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: surprised at the very beginning. Oh yeah, I thought I 13 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: tricked you. I did, I because I've never seen this 14 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: until Samantha and I watched it together about a week ago, right, 15 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: and I had no idea what to expect. Samantha, what 16 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: you said, something like it's about middle aged women having 17 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 1: it is definitely one of those yeah up becoming middle 18 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 1: aged women movies. Right, So, so for it to start 19 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: in the way that it does with a suicide, right, 20 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 1: was a little surprising to story. True. True, And we'll 21 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:28,399 Speaker 1: get more into the plot in the second UM. But 22 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:33,760 Speaker 1: for basics, this is a nine comedy comedy es UM. 23 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: I did. I definitely did. And it turned out to 24 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: be a pretty good choice of movie because of the 25 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: question of revenge versus justice that comes up quite a bit, 26 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: and we talked about that in our part one on 27 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: women and revenge. Um. It was very, very gloriously nineties. 28 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:58,280 Speaker 1: I'll say that that was a fun little flashback. You 29 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: love the nineties. Do you remember the first time you 30 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: saw this? Oh? Yeah, so I do not, because it's 31 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: been a while from when it's I can't remember who 32 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: are what, but I just remember seeing it. Um. But 33 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: I do remember that I watched this as well as 34 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:15,799 Speaker 1: I'll give their own UM in preparation to the two 35 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: sixteen election. Yeah, yeah, and trying to get all really 36 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: kind of inspired and you know, not too deep into it, 37 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: like dark, but kind of inspiration level of Okay, we 38 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: can do this. Yes, And funnily enough, Vonna Trump is 39 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: in it. Yeah, we will discuss that more later. More 40 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: you reat nice, more cameos than I did. And I 41 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 1: was like, oh my gosh, I was like and I 42 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: had I was like, was that really was? It was? 43 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 1: So let's go ahead and get into it because it 44 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: is a fantastic movie. To me, your friend Marissa, great listener. 45 00:02:53,560 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: She agrees, yes, I love her taste. UM. So for plot, 46 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 1: if you have not seen this movie, or maybe it's 47 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: been a while, which for a lot of people probably has, 48 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:08,799 Speaker 1: so there. This is a nine movie directed by Hugh 49 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: Wilson with a screenplay by Robert Harlan, based on a 50 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 1: nineteen book of the same name by Olivia Goldsmith. It 51 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,679 Speaker 1: stars Goldie Han, Bette Midler, and Diane Keaton. Has three 52 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,839 Speaker 1: recently reunited friends who decide to help each other get 53 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: revenge or justice they say, um against their ex husbands 54 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: who ditched them for younger women played by Sarah Dsca Parker, which, 55 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: by the way, this was made after Hocus Pocus. We 56 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: did it that up, Marcia gay Harden who was phenomenal, 57 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: and Elizabeth Berkley you know her from Saved by the 58 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: Bell fame um. And then on the periphery we have 59 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: Maggie Smith as an n y C socialite Dame Maggie 60 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: Smith if you want to be nasty, and a cameo 61 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: appearance by Gloria's Dynham which I missed until you pointed 62 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: this out to me Annie and I wanted Trump, which 63 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 1: she is kind of the all encompassing first wife, like 64 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: she's what they call her, the original fresh wive. Also, 65 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: just to throw it out there, it had a bit 66 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: of the women the movie as inspiration. Yeah, and if 67 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: you're like me, and maybe you didn't get the title 68 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 1: at first, it because they were first wives. I don't 69 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: know together you didn't know this. I don't know why. 70 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: I thought that was obvious, but yes, it is exactly why. 71 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 1: But I did not put it together, so I just 72 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:31,039 Speaker 1: thought i'd put it out there. Despite mixed reviews, this 73 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 1: movie became a box office hit, earning almost two hundred 74 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 1: million dollars at the box office, and it definitely got 75 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: a cult following, especially among middle aged women inspired a 76 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 1: musical and a television show, and a movie like this 77 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: is still unfortunately pretty rare a main cast of middle 78 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,359 Speaker 1: aged women about their friendship, even though yes, they do 79 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: spend a lot of time talking about men um but yeah, 80 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:02,119 Speaker 1: we don't really see that too much, right. The movie 81 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: starts off in nine with four friends, Annie played by Keaton, 82 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 1: Aliz played by Goldie Hawn, Brenda played by Bette Midler, 83 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: and Cynthia, who's played by Stalker Channing, who you told 84 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: me was in Greece. Okay, um, I was paying attention. 85 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 1: And they have just graduated college and are filled with 86 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 1: excitement about their futures. They share at champagne toast and 87 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: Cynthia presents her friends with pearl necklaces. Yeah, I know, 88 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: I said, Well, I didn't get that from many of 89 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: my friends. That's okay, we don't eat pearl necklaces. But 90 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: they get these pearl necklaces, and they take a picture 91 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: together and Cynthia makes them all promise that they'll always 92 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: be there for each other. And then it cuts to 93 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: present day and Cynthia is tearfully gazing at the picture, 94 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: clearly implying that they have drifted apart. They have not, 95 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: in fact, been there for each other. She's living in 96 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: a super fancy apartment. Through series of newspaper headlines, it's 97 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: revealed that her ex husband, a man Cynthia helped climb 98 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: the social latter married a much younger woman. I believe 99 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: like two days before, two days after they got divorces. 100 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 1: They're luckier. What yeh wow? Um. So Cynthia gives her 101 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: maid her set of pearls and three letters to mail 102 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 1: to her once close friends. Then she puts on this 103 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: floor length fur coat. There's so much for in this movie. 104 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 1: There's a lot of the nineties. I guess um. She 105 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: gets a drink and a cigarette and then she jumps 106 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 1: off the balcony to her death. There's also a lot 107 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: of cigarette smoking. There is very nineties. So at the funeral, 108 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,280 Speaker 1: the three friends who are shocked reunite, feeling guilty about 109 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 1: not being there for their friend. They go out for 110 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: lunch afterwards, and after a few drinks, they all admit 111 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: their lives aren't what they had hoped for, so they 112 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: literally just go one. It starts at the day beginning 113 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: when they're really nice to each other and just like 114 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 1: everything is perfect, everything is per of and then cut 115 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: to like four drinks later, everything spills. Annie and her 116 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: husband are separated in therapy, which, by the way she 117 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: puts those positive spends everything's okay um. And then actress 118 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: Elie's husband left her for a younger actress and she 119 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: is now an alcoholic reliant on plastic surgery. And I 120 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: think it is really kind of funny because at that 121 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: point there was this whole underlying joke about her going 122 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: in for plastic surgery. Right, so she was making it 123 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: even bigger, very self aware. Um, and Brenda's husband divorced 124 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: her for a young woman, leaving her in a financial 125 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: larch with her son. Right. The three women each have 126 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: disastrous encounters with her exes after this this lunch. Annie 127 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: spends the night with her ex husband, believing that they're 128 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: going to get back together, only to find out that 129 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: her ex is dating her therapist played by Marcia Gayharden, 130 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: and he asked her instead of getting back together, that 131 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: he wants a divorce. Alice discovers that her ex is 132 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: asking for alimony and half of their marital assets, claiming 133 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 1: she would never have been successful without him. Brenda has 134 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: an embarrassing encounter with her ex when she confronts him 135 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: at a department store, and his new wife, Sarah Jessica Parker, 136 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 1: an address that Brenda had mocked earlier, shows up and 137 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: makes fun of her her looks and her clothes and 138 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: her size. Right. Um, and then there's Cynthia's letter which 139 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: arrives at you see at the very beginning the maid 140 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: sends it all for her, which inspires them to form 141 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: the first Wives Club. As in the first wife left 142 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 1: for the younger, second, third whatever wife to get revenge 143 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: on their exes and they recoup. They also involve Any's 144 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: daughter who is a lesbian, but then but it is 145 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 1: fun because she does get involved to help her as 146 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: well as the Social Light New York. Social Light name 147 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: Maggie Smith, Brenda's mafia connected uncle and Brenda's boss who 148 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 1: is the interior decorator who I knew from The Perfect 149 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: Strangers from the eighties sitcom I Know What I Know 150 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,440 Speaker 1: and that was the original t g I Friday lineup. 151 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: They uncover that bndess X had committed text fraud UM, 152 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 1: taking a lot of stolen merchandise, sold it off as 153 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: his own than any plans to restart her advertising company 154 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: by buying out her ex's clients to finance. This at 155 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:23,079 Speaker 1: least liquidates her marital assets. Um with their exes right 156 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: to where they want them, the club decides that they 157 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: want to be better than their exes. They want to 158 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: take the higher road. They want justice, not revenge, so 159 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: they coerced their ex husbands into funding their nonprofit, the 160 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: Cynthia Swan Griffin Crisis Center for Women, primarily aimed at 161 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: assisting abused women. The club throws this opening party at 162 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: the center, and we we find out Eliza is now 163 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: sober and she took the play that her friends had 164 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 1: encouraged her to accept the role. Um Brenda reconciles with 165 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: her ex. Annie bought out her ex and then turns 166 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 1: him down at this party when he atten is to 167 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: reconcile with her, Gloria's sign him is there, as is 168 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 1: Avonna Trump, who says the famous line don't get mad, 169 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 1: get everything. When the party ends, the women all dressed 170 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: in white singing Leslie Gore's you Don't Own Me? Yeah, 171 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: one of my favorite parts because that's every time we 172 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: talk about First Wives Club, that's the song that hits 173 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: in my head. And Marissa actually commented in our story thing, 174 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: do you are you guys seeing this song? At least 175 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: she said that, Um, but yeah, it's also good to 176 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: know in this whole kind of thing, you do have 177 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: different tropes. And we're gonna talk a lot about it. 178 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:39,199 Speaker 1: But there's definitely gas lighting when Annie's husband A breaks 179 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: up with her essentially but then trying to also get 180 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,559 Speaker 1: back with her and then blaming her for his failures. 181 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 1: But it's really interesting and I we'renna talk a little 182 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: more about it, but it's definitely like, huh, I see 183 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: what you did there, We see it, We see it. Oh. 184 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: I was so happy when she was like, nah, not 185 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: getting back with you. It's also nice to see her 186 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: get finally standing up because of the crew, she's the 187 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,679 Speaker 1: one that kind of just as a peacemaker and quiet 188 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:07,839 Speaker 1: and submissive. Yeah, and we're gonna we're gonna talk about 189 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: that um in a little bit as well. Kind of 190 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 1: the I feel like in a lot of these movies, 191 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 1: the characters represent this one kind of magnified trait, right, um. 192 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: But yeah, this song you know only has been stuck 193 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: in my head since we've done it, and I thought 194 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: it was from Suicide Squad and you kept singing it 195 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: from this It's like, oh, it makes sense that's existed 196 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: for a long time. Yes, yes, yes, because obviously he's 197 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: been around for a while. But they do it as 198 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: a trio. I guess they did it as a quartet 199 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: because they had Cynthia with her with them, because it 200 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: was they performed it in college, they did, and so 201 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,559 Speaker 1: this was them kind of reclaiming it at the end, 202 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: and every time we talk about it. I also sing it, 203 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: yes you do, and I may have sang throughout the 204 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 1: movie as we were watching it, yes you did so Yeah. 205 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: This song was recorded in nineteen sixty three and was 206 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: adopted as a part of the Second Way feminist movement. 207 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: It has been covered many a time, as you can 208 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: tell because any I was from who Side Squad? Well 209 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: that's where I heard it from. It has not it 210 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: hasn't come out yet, but it was on the ads alright, 211 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: the trailers, And we do wanna look into each of 212 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: these characters a bit more in depth, but first we're 213 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: going to pause for a quick break for a word 214 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: from our sponsor, and we're back, Thank you, sponsor. So yes, 215 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: I feel like in a lot of movies like these 216 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: are even books, um, the characters are distilled into one 217 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,719 Speaker 1: basic thing, the pretty one, the goofy one, the nice one, 218 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: and that always leads to a BuzzFeed quiz like which 219 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: one are you? Um. Through these main characters, you can 220 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 1: see different stereotypes about women personified, right um. And I 221 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: think it also each one of them that they play 222 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: is kind of a stereotype of them as as individuals 223 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: that they are known for. Beth Midler is known for 224 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: being sarcastic and sassy in real life. Diane Keaton, I 225 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: don't know if she's ever been like just nice nice, 226 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:18,199 Speaker 1: but she's definitely the quieter, seemingly submissive one. And then 227 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: you have Goldie Han who has always been but kind 228 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 1: of treated as a dumb blonde type of thing. Um. 229 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: And then again I think often applies with women who 230 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: are getting back at people. The Witches of Eastwick, which 231 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:31,880 Speaker 1: we talked about. I forgot about that movie for a 232 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: while and I had to go back and read the 233 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,760 Speaker 1: plot because it's been so long since I've watched it. 234 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: The craft even hocus pocused and oddly applied to which 235 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: is maybe I don't know that just happened to be 236 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 1: my theme. I guess. Um it hasn't changed even in TV. 237 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 1: If you think about like Sex in the City and 238 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,480 Speaker 1: speaking of Sarah Jessica Parker and that kind of trope 239 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: as well, there's four of them. They all represent very 240 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: specific types of women. And then um, you also have 241 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 1: the new show Doll Face, which I've talked about for 242 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,800 Speaker 1: on Hulu. Um, and I think that has that same 243 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: persona as well. You've got the down to art sassy 244 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: one versus the you know, over the type stereotypical Asian woman. 245 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: That's the whole thing in itself. I think that's another 246 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: episode that we should get into, is why do we 247 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: have to represent when women so monotone one dimensionally. Yeah, 248 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: I can talk about that for a long time. It 249 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: is interesting because you really can't see this everywhere. And 250 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: one thing to get really nerdy for a second, when 251 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 1: you're creating a character in Dungeons and Dragons, one thing 252 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: they say is pick a treat, and that's your thing. 253 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: And that's gonna make it easy for you to know 254 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: what this character would do, So it can be something 255 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: as small as I'm afraid of blood or I get 256 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: not just really easily. It's just funny. I feel like 257 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: writers do this a lot, where we pick, Okay, you're this, 258 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,479 Speaker 1: it's gonna be easy to write you then. But okay, 259 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: let's look at our cast, starting with Anne Keaton's Annie, 260 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: who provides kind of sporadic voiceover for the film. Um. Yeah, 261 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 1: and I would say she's the nice one. She's what 262 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: I would call the middle child, the peacekeeper. Yeah, yeah, 263 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: you said that. I would. I was most closely really 264 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: into her, like if I took the test. This is 265 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: the one I would get. Yeah, I definitely did not 266 00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 1: think as I said, I would definitely be Bette Midler. 267 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: Well I would be Brenda said, not Jewish. But you know, 268 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: as there you go. This is the update the reboot. Um, 269 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: She's Annie a shy, She's plagued by low self esteem. 270 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: She doesn't really speak up herself, she doesn't really express 271 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: her emotions. And Cynthia's letter to her, she said she 272 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: most admired Annie's strength and present day Annie's daughter, yes, 273 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: is a lesbian. Did she like this is the first 274 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: thing you learned about her? Um anyway calls her a doormat, 275 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 1: pointing out that she lets her ex walk all over her. 276 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: That's why her daughter was so ready to help her 277 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: with revenge. By the way, is her father yea, she 278 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: just could not stand her own father exactly. Meanwhile, Um, 279 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: Annie's mom keeps pushing for her to get back with 280 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: her ex and on the surface and is very up beeat. 281 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: I was actually confused at first because I was like, 282 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: she's so happy, but what she's saying is so sad. 283 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: But she just yeah, exactly, but she plays it so well. 284 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: I was like, is she really happy with this situation? Um? 285 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: But yeah, she is in therapy, and that's one of 286 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: the first signs you get that all might not be well, 287 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 1: where her therapist urges her to get angry and hit 288 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: her with like what looks like a toy bat filled 289 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 1: with air or something. It's a star film bat these 290 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:47,720 Speaker 1: kids played with. It's kind of like the nerve version 291 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: of a bat. But it's just a large yellow and 292 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: blue Yeah, okay, the safe colors. Yes, um. And at 293 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: first Annie can't do it like she does it, but 294 00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: she's sort of laughing. But then with the continued shring 295 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: of her therapist, she snaps and starts whacking at her 296 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: with all this pent up anger. That's foreshadowing too, it 297 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: is I never guessed that. Um. Yeah, she's always apologizing 298 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: and taking the blame that I did notice really quickly 299 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: that she's constantly saying I'm sorry. Um with the three 300 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 1: front when they when three friends reconnect over lunch, she 301 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 1: maintains everything with her relationship is perfect, even when she 302 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: reveals they are separated and Brenda and Elies are like 303 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: they start laughing. That is like, by the way, would 304 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 1: be kind of not that that's not the nice reaction, 305 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,959 Speaker 1: but it could definitely sound like that's cute. Yeah, they 306 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 1: Brenda and Elies have a more like oh we've seen it, 307 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 1: you know, kind of cynical view. Um. She believes her 308 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: husband is going to get back together with her. She's 309 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:55,360 Speaker 1: super excited about it when she gets the phone call um. 310 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:59,199 Speaker 1: But yeah, he instead after they have sex, asked for 311 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,160 Speaker 1: a divorce. And then her therapist shows up and it's 312 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: revealed that she is, yes, the new girlfriend. Um, the 313 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 1: same her this therapist. By the way, I've been telling 314 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 1: her she needed to work on her self esteem. Like 315 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: m m. So Annie flips out. Her voice gets super 316 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: right pitched. She storms out, crying. Throughout the film, we 317 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: see her struggling with fear and expressing herself when they 318 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 1: have to escape an apartment via window washing scaffolding. Yes, 319 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,880 Speaker 1: that that happens in this movie. She's the one that's terrified, 320 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: although I do think that is fair. When the group 321 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: drunkenly sings randition if you Don't Own Me the first 322 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 1: time in the movie, Um, she is tentative. She stops 323 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: out of shyness when the other two attempt to let 324 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: her sing by herself, but she does grow into herself 325 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: with the help of the women in her life. When 326 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: she becomes a majority shareholder and her husband's her ex 327 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: husband's company, she does it confidently. When her husband tries 328 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: to reconcile with her, she tells of himself. At the end, 329 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: her mom says, you know, you need absolutely nothing, And 330 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: during the final music number, she sings it joyously and confidently, right, 331 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 1: And I think that was part of the thing. She 332 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: didn't want to be seen, and so when they would 333 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: let her beat seen, she would freak out because it 334 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 1: was so embarrassing for her. She wanted to be the 335 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 1: perfect whatever, so she can't seem perfectly. She didn't want 336 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: to sing out loud. Um. I think it's interesting because 337 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: it is she's one of these characters that does have 338 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: the mother who is continually pressuring her to stay married. 339 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: It didn't matter what was happening is you should be 340 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: together with this man. I think that she mentioned about 341 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: her being older not being able to find someone else. 342 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:41,159 Speaker 1: She does yeah, which is absolutely kind of a stereotype 343 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,640 Speaker 1: of the mother. Okay, so let's hop into Goldie Han, 344 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 1: whom I love. She plays a struggling actress Alice, who 345 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: was you know, very very famous for a long while 346 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: and then she comes at an age where she realizes, Oh, 347 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: I'm in between, which I know. We've had many discussions 348 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: on you're too old to play does, but are too 349 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,719 Speaker 1: young to play this? So what do we do with you? 350 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: You're just the pasture? So she she once was an 351 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: Oscar winning actress, but has now been relegated to be 352 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 1: movies due to her unprofitable age quote unquote, now getting 353 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: roles for the mother. And when they talk about the mother, 354 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,199 Speaker 1: they say the words grotesque, but he that's how he 355 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 1: describes the character um as opposed to the the young 356 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: hot daughter, which Yah know that doesn't happen anymore. I 357 00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: guess I don't know. I don't know. I've seen many 358 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 1: of actresses now who don't age. It's phenomenal. I'm like, 359 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: how do you look like this? Angela Bassett, she is 360 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 1: one of those has never aged. I can't figure her out. 361 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: She says in the movie there are only three ages 362 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: for women in Hollywood, Babe, District attorney, and driving Miss Daisy. 363 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: And right now I want to be young, she says, 364 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 1: science fiction young um. And the first time we see 365 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: President Day Last, she's getting plastic surgery for what is 366 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:04,919 Speaker 1: implied to be one of numerous previous times, um, and 367 00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: her plastic surgeant says something like, if you get any 368 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 1: more plastic charritory, you're going to be able to blink 369 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: your lips, which is funny. Um. She's also an alcoholic 370 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: and a smoker, in part to deal with the fact 371 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 1: her ex left her for a younger actress, again played 372 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: by Elizabeth Berkeley. Her husband is asking for alimony and 373 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: half of their assets, to Alsee's fury, which rightly so. 374 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: Elise is insecure, van and consistently drunk. We do get 375 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: to see her have phone with taking her husband's stuff, 376 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:34,120 Speaker 1: or her stuff, as she would say, selling for one 377 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 1: dollar to any and giving him half or all in 378 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 1: the end because he poudered. There's a scene after the 379 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 1: First Wives Club is formed where she was working out 380 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,199 Speaker 1: on a stair climber and Brenda asks her, doesn't it 381 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 1: bother you that you're never getting anywhere? You climb and 382 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: you climb and you climb and never reach the top, 383 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: so something like that, and of course she says, no, 384 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: I love it. I get this is when I can think, 385 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:58,439 Speaker 1: which I think, Yeah, I think a lot of us 386 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: think that way, because then when I've been when I 387 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: used to run That's how I felt. But by the 388 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 1: end of the movie, she accepted a role in a 389 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: play which is supposed to be really phenomenal, aging gracefully 390 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:14,160 Speaker 1: I think, and she starts dating her coworker and gets sober. Yeah. 391 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: And I did want to include that thing about the 392 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 1: stair climber because it does remind me I might have 393 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 1: been reading way too much into it, but like of 394 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:25,200 Speaker 1: putting in all of this work and just constantly keeping 395 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: yourself busy, but you're not going anywhere, nothing is changing, um, 396 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 1: which I thought was interesting. And then yeah, we have 397 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 1: Bette Midler as Brenda, the goofy one, always ready with 398 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 1: a wise crack. She is financially strapped after she helped 399 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,399 Speaker 1: her husband succeed and then he left her for a 400 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 1: younger woman, Sarah Jessica Parker. That is a recurring theme 401 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 1: in all of this too, is that, um, these women 402 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: helped their husbands get to where they are and then 403 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: once they couldn't I guess you could say, in a 404 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: very bad light, use them anymore, then they left them, right, 405 00:22:57,720 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 1: I mean, essentially they do say this is the air 406 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,880 Speaker 1: midlife crisis. Brenda is the one that talks about him 407 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: going through the midlife prices with an airing in a 408 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 1: car and all of that. That's right, that's right, And 409 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,439 Speaker 1: I guess part of that is Sarah Jessica Parker's character 410 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,159 Speaker 1: um Brenda definitely has the best one liners in the 411 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 1: film in my opinion. Goodbye Love, Hello Pop Darts was 412 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: a favorite. Yes, she's resentful, beauty standard. She complains about 413 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 1: anorexia and Bulie macwomen um able to wear trendy fashions, 414 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: UM and clothes. She is the most in your face, 415 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: She says it like she means it, and perhaps has 416 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 1: the least growth of any of them. At the end, 417 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,359 Speaker 1: she does end up reconciling with her ex after he 418 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: is contriving. Not that that doesn't mean she hadn't didn't 419 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: have any growth, but I feel like she's sort of 420 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: I'm less sure of what her arc was. It's compared 421 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 1: to the other the other two. Um. She is the 422 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: butt of a lot of jokes, whether it's her frumpy 423 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: clothes or her weight. At one point in the movie 424 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,160 Speaker 1: at least shouts at her, yeah, what did you ever win? 425 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: A hiding contest best digestion um And although admittedly Alze's 426 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: plastic surgery is also a source of a lot of mockery, 427 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: So it's kind of like we're making fun of women 428 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: for doing looking beautiful or being the dumb blonde as 429 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: you say, and then not doing those things and just 430 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: kind of at the end, one of the things that 431 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 1: Brenda feels like she's accomplished is that she has lost 432 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,360 Speaker 1: some weight. Yeah, yeah, she does say that, which, again, yeah, 433 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 1: I'm with you, it doesn't seem like it's a big 434 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: change as everyone else. But I think one of her 435 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: stories were the fact that they weren't villainizing men, they 436 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,679 Speaker 1: were trying not to villainize men. So morty for someone 437 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: she cared for and still loved and just felt like 438 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: he turned the wrong way, So that is I think 439 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: that's kind of part of the reasoning behind less gross 440 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,400 Speaker 1: for her. Um. Again, so we do want to touch 441 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: on Stockard Channing's Cynthia for a second, who kills herself 442 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: three days after her husband left her and married a 443 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: younger woman. Once again, had their a clear who was 444 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: in it very briefly, These were definitely like mainstay nineties women. 445 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: By the way, Before she dies, she jumps to her 446 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: death a Swan dive flash Swan song. Since her last 447 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: name was Swan, and she puts on all these trappings 448 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,439 Speaker 1: of her life, like she's wrapping herself in all the 449 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: superficial stuff that ended up being meaningless um, including the 450 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: fact she's wearing hills, you know, in her pajamas, and 451 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 1: her for and her drinking. Her character represents a lot 452 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 1: the danger of defining yourself and your partner, getting your 453 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 1: self esteemed to the relationship. In this case, the husband 454 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: she helped build up um. Apparently her fortune actually helped 455 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,199 Speaker 1: his business, as they do say that, and how we 456 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: teach women that their main goal is to get married 457 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,199 Speaker 1: again very nineties values that we were slowly flipping the 458 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: idea at that point, and how women's values in their 459 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:54,080 Speaker 1: looks as well as their age, and that without these 460 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,080 Speaker 1: things their values go down. And I think a lot 461 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: of this also, I talked about how opportunities for women 462 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 1: diminished as we age. I'm starting to get a little 463 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 1: anxious about that, and the difficulty of starting over and 464 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: the importance of female friendships and support and a great 465 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: I think that's part of the reason I do love 466 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:16,360 Speaker 1: this film so much. It does rely more on the friendships, 467 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 1: and for me, I think we've talked about this. You 468 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 1: and I both thought about this. We're not relationship people. 469 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,679 Speaker 1: That's never been a thing for me. I've never needed 470 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: to have a relationship, didn't have that many boyfriends. My 471 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 1: relationships did not ever last too long. But my friendships 472 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: have been consistent. Um And I'm I've been fortunate to 473 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 1: have really good friends in my life, and I know 474 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,879 Speaker 1: that if I need someone, they'll still be there. Even 475 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:45,159 Speaker 1: at almost forty, where we're coming up on middle age. Me, 476 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,160 Speaker 1: I'm coming up on middle age. Everybody else is younger. 477 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 1: I can still see them on a weekly basis. I 478 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: can still hang out with them and consistently call them 479 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 1: as where my mother she lost contact with all of 480 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: her friends because it was a different I'm an age 481 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: and as I was concentrating on family, no one had 482 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: the access like the internets. Um And I think that's 483 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: a really different But I do love that even in 484 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: the nineties they saw it as an important conversation to 485 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: be had about things fall apart helptent times. Friendships outlast 486 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: most of these things, obviously. Yeah, um And I'm glad 487 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 1: to see stories like this because we don't see that 488 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: many of female friendships where that's like the first and 489 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,920 Speaker 1: foremost thing of the story and for me, my my 490 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 1: friendships with women in my life have been so valuable, 491 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: like more than anything, and I'm so so lucky that 492 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: I have that. UM and the support is hard to 493 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:48,120 Speaker 1: to overstate. And speaking of supporting women, we did want 494 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: to talk about some of the main shops and this movie, 495 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,439 Speaker 1: including that one. But first we're gonna pause for one 496 00:27:52,440 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: more quick break for word from our sponsor, and we're back, 497 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 1: Thank you sponsored. And we did wanna get into some 498 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: themes of this movie, some tropes, and perhaps the biggest 499 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: one being women supporting women. UM and the power in that, 500 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: because that, I mean, that's the whole thing, is that 501 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,120 Speaker 1: their relationships shall apart, their lives fall apart, but they 502 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: have the supportive group of friends who not only are 503 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,199 Speaker 1: they trying to get revenge and get justice, but like 504 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: in the case of Als, where they are like, no, 505 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 1: you should take this play, they're trying to help each 506 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:45,160 Speaker 1: other make healthier and more successful life decisions. UM And 507 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: I love seeing how Annie's daughter supports her and ultimately 508 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,720 Speaker 1: her mom does too, that there's three generations of women 509 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: supporting each other and all the stuff that, Yeah, these 510 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: women are able to accomplish with each other's help, and 511 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: they for the most part are building each other up 512 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: and giving advice, believing in each other and helping each 513 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: other succeed. So that is the idea behind this, that 514 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: they can't accomplish their glow up or grooves back, you know, 515 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: as we would throw it back without the help of 516 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: each other, which is only highlighted by the fact that 517 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 1: their downfall, their loss of self, was partially due to 518 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: the loss of each other. I think that's really important 519 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: to talk about, not necessarily that it hinges on other people, 520 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: but the fact that we do have to have support 521 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: and others to push us, and a lot of times 522 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: it is we do grow apart. I mean, that's the reality. 523 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: What the friends I had twenty years ago I may 524 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: not have now, but the friends I've had, you know, 525 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 1: in this past, have remained friends because we were able 526 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: to grow up together or change together. And even though 527 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: things can separate you a lot of the times, when 528 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: you find those people, that core group of people, your people, 529 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: it is just an amazing thing. The things that you 530 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 1: can do, these things that you can get support from 531 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: just being year or was you know, being able to 532 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: do This is everything to do with the type of 533 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: the people I know are supporting me or have pushed 534 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: me to say, yeah, these are important things to talk about, 535 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: let's do this. So I mean, it's a very significant 536 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,600 Speaker 1: part of who we are. And again we would have 537 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 1: to say this has to do with a lot with privilege. 538 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: So this was very white perspective, obviously white rich perspective, 539 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: because we don't have an actress who's going to sell 540 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: millions of dollars of worth of things to us for 541 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 1: a dollar would be lovely. I think of us their fortune. 542 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: But at the same time, the main idea of it's 543 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 1: a nice feel of being able to see a group 544 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 1: of friends who have been there for each other before 545 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: come back together now yeah, and the argument they have. 546 00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 1: I also think it was really enlightening because there is 547 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: a layer of oh, yeah, we've been trained to tear 548 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,120 Speaker 1: down other women because but the things they're picking out 549 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: on each other are largely looks based. But like, underneath 550 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: it all, there still is a layer of I don't know, 551 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 1: caring because Brenda was worried about um Aliza's drinking, and 552 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: they definitely said things that were not supportive at all, 553 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 1: but there there was this sort of at the core 554 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: of it that they still did care. And speaking of 555 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: women tearing down their women, we got to talk about 556 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: the other woman, the trip of that, Yeah, because we 557 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: see that play out big in this movie. And and yeah, 558 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 1: we were talking about this after the movie ended, and 559 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 1: how much blame we could place on these other women. 560 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: So in the case of Sarah Jessica Parker's Shelley, she 561 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: is a gold digger, She's a stereotypical gold digger. She's 562 00:31:53,880 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: manipulative but unintelligent, the beautiful dits, many many jokes play 563 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: out at her expense, um as the club along with 564 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 1: the sociolite Vanilla Goldberg, which is Maggie Smith trigger multiple times, right, 565 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 1: And I think for me, I keep going back to 566 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 1: the fact that it's so hocus pocus like her same 567 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:19,160 Speaker 1: character almost Yeah, yeah, I kind of is. But then 568 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,640 Speaker 1: you also have Marsha gay Harden's Dr Leslie Rosen, Annie's 569 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,360 Speaker 1: and her exes therapists who claims to be helping with 570 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 1: Annie's self esteem, which to me is definitely the idea 571 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: of gas lighting, not necessarily from Marcia, not necessarily from 572 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: the therapist perspective, maybe because we don't know the conversations 573 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 1: other than get your self esteem you need to be 574 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: stronger type of perspective, but her husband once again continually saying, 575 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: you always do this to me. You always make me 576 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 1: feel this way. You always did it. Uh, and you're 577 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:53,479 Speaker 1: like nobody does not, which is yeah, token definitely idea 578 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 1: of gas lighting the beginnings of and her taking that 579 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: blame and her believing that blame and believing that up 580 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,840 Speaker 1: until she exits after finding out the therapist as the 581 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:09,720 Speaker 1: new woman and starts screaming her non apologies, that was 582 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 1: a great thing. Yeah, I'm so sorry. I cared for 583 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: you and I did everything supported you. I'm so sorry, 584 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: Like you gotta love her doing that. I love her, 585 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 1: I love her, I love to have the therapist is like, 586 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 1: you've got to let her express herself, right, And then 587 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: we have the cameo by Elizabeth Berkeley, a young naive actress, 588 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: and you can really see the power dynamic between her 589 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: and Alicia's ex husband, who is offering her all of 590 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,760 Speaker 1: these lead roles. Um she's actually a fan of the 591 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: Leason is that her play at the end, So she 592 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 1: really does seem just like a super young naive and 593 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 1: maybe flattered that an older man is interested in her, 594 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 1: who is also going to help her excel in her 595 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: career and believing that she is. And maybe she is, 596 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,239 Speaker 1: but he is telling her she's good at all these 597 00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 1: things and if you continue to be these things, you know, 598 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 1: I'll help your care rear, whatever what not. But she 599 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 1: comes in very naively, not even understanding, it seems, the 600 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 1: relationship between Alice and the ex husband, Like she just 601 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,439 Speaker 1: kind of, oh my god, I'm so glad you're here. 602 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 1: It doesn't even occur to her that police might not 603 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 1: be super happy to meet her exactly. And I feel 604 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 1: like that's definitely a trope. At the same time, at 605 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:24,319 Speaker 1: least it's not versus woman versus woman, and that that 606 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:25,840 Speaker 1: that didn't make me feel a little better because we 607 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:27,399 Speaker 1: were not talking about them, Like, I hate that whole 608 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:32,080 Speaker 1: idea that when there's a downfall in a relationship that 609 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: it is the other woman's fault instead of seeing, hey, 610 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: that dude, yeah, comman denominator in this whole scenario. Um, 611 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,239 Speaker 1: and again, she is supposed to be sixteen, so you 612 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 1: can talk about the how in the world is she 613 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 1: has sixteen year old as living with this man and 614 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 1: no one notices. That's whole other conversation. It is. I 615 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 1: did really appreciate that she showed up at the playing Yeah. 616 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 1: I thought that was a nice touch. Yeah, and she 617 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:02,400 Speaker 1: seemed to be really into it. Um, there is still 618 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 1: the sense that they're playing. These women are playing the 619 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 1: game that the only avenue from women to succeed is 620 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,240 Speaker 1: by using their youth and their beauty to attract a man. 621 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: It's not great that they play into it and tear 622 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,959 Speaker 1: each other down. And one day they'll be competing with younger, 623 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 1: prettier women too, they'll be like second wives. But at 624 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: the same time, it's kind of hard to blame them, 625 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 1: and I'm not condoning it at all, but the patriarchal 626 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,680 Speaker 1: system we live in, it really does hit us against 627 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,319 Speaker 1: each other. I guess I can see I can see 628 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,319 Speaker 1: why it happens. I mean, that's the whole idea of 629 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: behind anti feminists in general. I don't think tars sue. Yeah. True. Um. Also, 630 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,760 Speaker 1: as the audience, I'd argue were meant to tear down 631 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: these women at least a little bit. We're poking fun 632 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: at Annie's weakness, Adelie's plastic surgery, at Brenda's rumpiness. Yeah. Absolutely, 633 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,839 Speaker 1: it's supposed to be the obvious of why they were 634 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: left again, something we see in society. We have to 635 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,680 Speaker 1: find a reason to blame. What did you do wrong? 636 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:01,919 Speaker 1: Why he leave you? And don't get me wrong, there's 637 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,360 Speaker 1: definitely two that tangoes. It definitely takes two to tango. 638 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: Try that one again, did it um? And there's a 639 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: whole other perspective that we met not see, we don't see. 640 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: But then there's also that whole keep yourself together, keep 641 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:21,400 Speaker 1: like all of these things, make yourself presentable, be desirable, whatever. 642 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 1: And I have seen more and more of people flipping 643 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: that switch two men or the other partner. And I've 644 00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 1: seen people you say that to them as well, And 645 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: I think that's unnecessary in just in general, it's traumatic 646 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: in itself to try to blame whatever. It's something maybe 647 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 1: you can't help or something that you don't like about yourself. Either, 648 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,440 Speaker 1: it's not something that you want as a part of 649 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: the reason that they left. So right, I think it's 650 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 1: the kind of transitions into our next thing we wanted 651 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 1: to talk about, which is having it all right, which 652 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,120 Speaker 1: is a huge theme of the nineties for a lot 653 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:02,360 Speaker 1: of women. Another thing, Yeah, because the whole idea of 654 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 1: having it all is it's impossible. It doesn't it's not 655 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 1: gonna happen. Um. They start out so hopeful for their future, 656 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,879 Speaker 1: having just graduated college in the sixties, which I'm sure 657 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:13,399 Speaker 1: it was a big fee. But again, these were very 658 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,759 Speaker 1: privileged women, once again white women, so we're able to 659 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:21,560 Speaker 1: get their education pretty easily, it seemed, with their pearls 660 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 1: and champagne to celebrate. But then we see them as 661 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,440 Speaker 1: adults and they obviously do not have at all. Um. 662 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,920 Speaker 1: It's a whole scenario of the young, naive idea of 663 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 1: what it is to dream for the end all um, 664 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:38,160 Speaker 1: to have perfect family lives with the princess like marriage. Obviously, 665 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 1: you see that dwindling away, and then you do see 666 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,560 Speaker 1: a lot about divorce raised in general, and the falling 667 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: apart of the American family. Whether it's set up by 668 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 1: lies that's a that's a Hallmark movie or something no, no, 669 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 1: but it should be it should be let's go, let's 670 00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 1: go right when next um, or whether it's just this 671 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:03,520 Speaker 1: level of expectations that you're not meeting in front of 672 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,920 Speaker 1: other people, so kind of like, whether it's obviously a 673 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: help mom, but I don't want to be, but I'm 674 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 1: supposed to be, or I am while I am a 675 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:13,600 Speaker 1: career woman, but I don't want to, you know, any 676 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:15,839 Speaker 1: of those perspectives that you're supposed to have it all 677 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,840 Speaker 1: and be all running that perfect home, being the perfect wife, 678 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:25,239 Speaker 1: having a perfect career. Yeah nah, yeah, And it's it's 679 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,840 Speaker 1: a double edged sword too, because you're gonna get blamed 680 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:29,840 Speaker 1: for being at work too much or not enough, for 681 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:34,760 Speaker 1: being at home too much or not enough. Um. Yeah. 682 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:39,279 Speaker 1: So they were all successful, they all got married to 683 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,320 Speaker 1: some had kids, and they helped their husbands succeed, only 684 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 1: for these husbands to go and go for a younger 685 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 1: woman once they had been established with the help of 686 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:51,200 Speaker 1: their first wives. One tries to keep everyone happy at 687 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,640 Speaker 1: the expense of herself. One tries to hold onto youth 688 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,240 Speaker 1: at the expense of herself. One lashes out at everyone 689 00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:00,399 Speaker 1: at the expense of women. Everywhere, they all define themselves wives. 690 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,799 Speaker 1: So when that was gone, after everything, they've given up 691 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,759 Speaker 1: the best years of their lives. As is said in 692 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 1: the movie, more than once, they didn't know what to 693 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 1: do with themselves. They lacked purpose. Their happiness had always 694 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 1: been second to see them reclaim themselves, to take what's theirs, 695 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,279 Speaker 1: and to find happiness and success in themselves and their 696 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,239 Speaker 1: friendships is really rewarding. They can't have it all, but 697 00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: with the help of each other, they get closer to 698 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:28,719 Speaker 1: having what they truly want. Is that jagline. I mean, 699 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:34,319 Speaker 1: I'm here to cante, I can write things, and we 700 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 1: didn't want to talk about revenge versus justice as well, 701 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,560 Speaker 1: because it's interesting how at the end they turn their 702 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,040 Speaker 1: desire for revenge outward, they make it into something to 703 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,560 Speaker 1: help other people. They keep emphasizing this is not revenge, 704 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,279 Speaker 1: this is justice, and their decision to start a nonprofit 705 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,239 Speaker 1: is a way of turning their desire for revenge into 706 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,200 Speaker 1: justice and honoring their friend that started this whole thing 707 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 1: that brought them back together, which is especially interesting in 708 00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:59,440 Speaker 1: light of what we talked about in our Women and 709 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,320 Speaker 1: Revenge said about how women are more likely to channel 710 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,319 Speaker 1: their desire for revenge into altruistic purposes, right, And I 711 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:06,880 Speaker 1: think there is a lot to be said when it 712 00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:10,560 Speaker 1: comes to the female perspective of revenge and justice. Revenge 713 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 1: is than all out, maybe balls out, hell and brimstone, 714 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,719 Speaker 1: while justice is were storing the balance. I think if 715 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:18,799 Speaker 1: we look more deeply into it, for a feminist take, 716 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 1: is trying to get balanced as we would say, that's 717 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,520 Speaker 1: what we're storing implies like you're giving it back to 718 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,040 Speaker 1: what it was. But I think if you know that 719 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:29,799 Speaker 1: it isn't there, there's a tip of the scale that 720 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,239 Speaker 1: changes the perspective. And if we look at it for 721 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,440 Speaker 1: the first time, it's not that they're getting balance. It's 722 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,920 Speaker 1: just they're trying to find balance and put justice into 723 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,120 Speaker 1: place because they never had that balance to begin with, right, 724 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,919 Speaker 1: So it's a whole different level. Yeah, it was always 725 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:48,560 Speaker 1: an unequal situation. Um. And to close out here because 726 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,319 Speaker 1: we've had a surprising amount to say about First Wives Club, 727 00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:53,680 Speaker 1: maybe not, I don't know. We did want to toudge 728 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,879 Speaker 1: on some real world stuff, including a Vonna Trump because 729 00:40:56,880 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 1: after we watched this, we were curious about her being 730 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:03,760 Speaker 1: in the movie and what she said, and we looked 731 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,600 Speaker 1: it up because I do remember the whole trope about 732 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:08,680 Speaker 1: the fact that she was the original First Wive and 733 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:13,760 Speaker 1: that it was a huge tabloid extravaganza when the divorce 734 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,400 Speaker 1: went down and what was happening, and and the new mistress, 735 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,640 Speaker 1: Marlon Maple's coming in and yeah, a small bit of 736 00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:23,399 Speaker 1: history because honestly, again I forgot about the whole mass. 737 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,160 Speaker 1: I just remember it being a big deal. I was 738 00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,320 Speaker 1: really young at the point, you weren't born yet. Probably 739 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:32,240 Speaker 1: a deposition relating to the divorce, she accused Donald Trump 740 00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:35,440 Speaker 1: of rape and pulling out handfuls of her hair, and 741 00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:39,240 Speaker 1: in a book written by Harry hurt Um Lost Tycoon, 742 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,480 Speaker 1: The Mini Lives of Donald J. Trump, Ivanna Trump confirmed 743 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,400 Speaker 1: that she had felt violated quote unquote. However, in a 744 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:49,120 Speaker 1: statement provided by Donald J. Trump and his lawyers, Ivanna 745 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,360 Speaker 1: Trump stated that she did use the word rape, but 746 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,560 Speaker 1: that she did not want her words to be interpreted 747 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:58,320 Speaker 1: in a literal or criminal sense, which this isn't very 748 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,320 Speaker 1: comforting in any way. And the divorce was great in 749 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:06,080 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety on the grounds of cruel and inhumane treatment 750 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 1: by Mr Trump, so that was actually written into the 751 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,960 Speaker 1: reasoning and for divorce. The condition of the settlement was 752 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,799 Speaker 1: that she wouldn't talk about their marriage without his permission, 753 00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:19,640 Speaker 1: so not to say too much. But this has obviously 754 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:24,000 Speaker 1: a lot of indications of all the accusations we see today. 755 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:27,160 Speaker 1: It's been happening, it's been said, It's been said since 756 00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:31,719 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety in official court documents, and I think it 757 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,560 Speaker 1: was important to remember unfortunately that this happened, because I 758 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:39,279 Speaker 1: completely did not realize that statement was even written out 759 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:41,640 Speaker 1: as a part of the reason for their divorce. It 760 00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,799 Speaker 1: was kind of funny at that time because everybody was 761 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:47,160 Speaker 1: making jokes about the fact that Donald was leaving her 762 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:50,759 Speaker 1: for a younger woman, Marlin Maples, and all of these 763 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,400 Speaker 1: things came out about how he cheated and what he 764 00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:55,600 Speaker 1: wanted and feeling like a failure because I think this 765 00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:59,840 Speaker 1: was the beginning of him losing everything and so again 766 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,440 Speaker 1: kind of having a breakdown and going for the younger woman. 767 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:07,400 Speaker 1: That's exactly that trope. But then how serious the situation 768 00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,080 Speaker 1: was at the time, and everybody was able to disregard it. 769 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,520 Speaker 1: Kind of forgot about that history until I believe it 770 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:15,200 Speaker 1: was brought up again during the elections, But it was 771 00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:21,760 Speaker 1: a small blip that everybody ignored. Yeah, and then another 772 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,200 Speaker 1: person we want to talk about very briefly, it's Harvy 773 00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:28,359 Speaker 1: Wise Stude, just because it's really hard not to see 774 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:32,719 Speaker 1: some disturbing parallels between him in the situation with the 775 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:37,560 Speaker 1: young actress in the movie. So it is odd to 776 00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:43,600 Speaker 1: watch that movie now with our eyes are modernized and 777 00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:47,440 Speaker 1: knowing what happens um and it was treated it so 778 00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:51,719 Speaker 1: lightly at that point time, both of those situations were 779 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:56,120 Speaker 1: treated so lightly, and then today you're like, oh, yeah 780 00:43:56,280 --> 00:44:01,360 Speaker 1: it's bad. Yeah. Um, and then Gloria steinem was I 781 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:05,160 Speaker 1: think Gloria steinhum. So come on. That's That's about what 782 00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:09,160 Speaker 1: we have to say on First Wives Club. If you 783 00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,680 Speaker 1: haven't seen it, it's on Netflix. Um, and we would 784 00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:16,080 Speaker 1: love to hear from you. What should be our next 785 00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:21,919 Speaker 1: movie for finmness movie Friday we're doing next, Yeah, get 786 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,239 Speaker 1: excited for that. I'm excited about that one. Um. But 787 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,080 Speaker 1: after that, what should we do? We definitely are definitely 788 00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,680 Speaker 1: gonna come back for Heathers, Yes, and I think I'm 789 00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,440 Speaker 1: gonna do one over Whiches in together, like all together 790 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:37,040 Speaker 1: with the Craft, which is a focus, possibly because I 791 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:38,880 Speaker 1: feel like there's gonna be a lot of inter weaving 792 00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,680 Speaker 1: True and the Witches. There's a lot of movies we 793 00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:44,560 Speaker 1: can talk about in there. Yeah. I guess i'd see 794 00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:49,799 Speaker 1: that as such a because there's yeah, they're all women. Yes, interestingly, 795 00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,200 Speaker 1: I love it too. But in the meantime, you can 796 00:44:56,239 --> 00:45:00,839 Speaker 1: email your suggestions to you as at our email at 797 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,120 Speaker 1: Stuff Media Mom Stuff at i heeart media dot com. 798 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,680 Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast 799 00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,560 Speaker 1: or on Instagram at Stuff I've Never Told You. Thanks 800 00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,160 Speaker 1: as always to our super producer Andrew Howard, and thanks 801 00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:15,040 Speaker 1: to you for listening. Stuff I've Never Told You The 802 00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,440 Speaker 1: production of iHeart Radios how Stuff Works. For more podcasts 803 00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:19,960 Speaker 1: from I Hear Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, 804 00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:21,680 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,