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Speaker 1: Welcome to Dirty Rush, The Truth about Sorority Life with

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Speaker 1: your hosts me Gia Judice.

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Speaker 2: Davey Kent, and Jennifer Fessler.

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Speaker 1: Hi you guys, welcome back to another week of Dirty Rush.

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Speaker 1: I am Jenfessler, and today we want to get into

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Speaker 1: the minds of what Rush sorority was really like back

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Speaker 1: in the day and how it has changed. So I

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Speaker 1: am the ripe old age of fifty seven years old.

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Speaker 1: I graduated from the University of Texas in nineteen ninety

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Speaker 1: so picture Rush. Although I actually rushed as a junior

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Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty eight, and I can tell you right

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Speaker 1: here right now, just to spoil the ending, it was

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Speaker 1: a lot different. And I'm also going to bring in

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Speaker 1: our guest today. Her name is Katie, and she is

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Speaker 1: here because she is from sort of my generation. Hi Katie,

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Speaker 1: Hi wait, I'm sorry, I don't even know how Wait

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Speaker 1: where are you from?

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Speaker 2: Fifty seven?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm I'm fifty. I rushed in the nineties. I

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Speaker 3: was in a house in the nineties and yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 3: so much has changed, I think.

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Speaker 1: Right, so it really has. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: joining me, because we really do want to talk about this.

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Speaker 1: I think it's it's interesting our perspective, not only of

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Speaker 1: the way that we you know, we rushed and we pledged,

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Speaker 1: but also how different it is from what our daughters

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Speaker 1: are doing. Now. Do you have kids going through it,

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Speaker 1: because my daughter went through it at in Delaware.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't have kids, but I have a lot

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Speaker 3: that are going through it. But I have a number

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Speaker 3: of friends whose kids are or have gone through it,

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Speaker 3: And so I've been asked to write recommendations and wow, Okay,

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Speaker 3: that was like the first signal. This is really different

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Speaker 3: because back in the day, like we really thought through

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Speaker 3: who's going to write our recommendation? And you know, because

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Speaker 3: it mattered more than that, like if your mom or

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Speaker 3: grandma or aunt or somebody, if you were a legacy,

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Speaker 3: if they were like in your house else, that also

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Speaker 3: really mattered. And it's super interesting because when I went

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Speaker 3: to the website a couple of years ago, I wrote

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Speaker 3: the first recommendation for a friend's daughter, and I went

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Speaker 3: to the website and it actually explicitly said that they've

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Speaker 3: changed the whole process. They have clearly stated there is

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Speaker 3: no preference given to legacy, to any of that, and

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Speaker 3: that they really want to be more inclusive and so

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Speaker 3: it also told us we can write a recommendation if

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Speaker 3: we want, but they don't even really allow you to

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Speaker 3: write a recommendation. All you do is fill out standard

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Speaker 3: information about Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, my daughter I wanted her to I was a

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Speaker 1: Phi at ut I was an a FI, and I

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Speaker 1: wanted her to go FI at Delaware.

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Speaker 2: Turns out she wanted Alpha Fi.

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Speaker 1: But I remember thinking like, oh, great, she's gonna have,

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Speaker 1: you know, such a great shop just because her mom

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Speaker 1: was a Phi, her aunt was a Phi. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: definitely was like that for us. So I did not

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Speaker 1: have anybody who had I didn't have any legacy when

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Speaker 1: I was going through it. So yeah, yeah, things have changed.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's just right, that's just like the tip

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Speaker 1: of the iceberg.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's an interesting thing.

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Speaker 3: Like I mean, I get the idea that you want

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Speaker 3: to be more inclusive, but there's also something about the

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Speaker 3: tradition of the whole thing and it's really special to

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Speaker 3: a lot of people. So yeah, yeah, but yeah, and

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Speaker 3: then like you know, being a rushie is also so

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Speaker 3: different from being in the house. It's like such a

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Speaker 3: different experience.

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Speaker 1: I think that's probably that's probably still true. Well, first,

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Speaker 1: let's how about you. Tell me a little bit about

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Speaker 1: your experience, Like did you go in where did you

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Speaker 1: go to school?

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Speaker 2: What was your house?

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Speaker 1: What was it like going through Did you know you

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Speaker 1: wanted to be in a particular sorority?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? So, I it's interesting. So like the experience was

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Speaker 3: so different. I mean I have stories from being a

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Speaker 3: rashie and I have some funny stories about being a

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Speaker 3: member on the other side. So I went to so

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Speaker 3: I mean, as a rashie, you're nervous. You hope they

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Speaker 3: like you, and not all goes according to plan. I mean, like,

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Speaker 3: I remember there was a girl when I went through

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Speaker 3: RUSH who didn't realize that the back of her skirt

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Speaker 3: was all bunched up in her pantyhouse elastic, her underwear

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Speaker 3: was showing. She'd been walking around to parties at different

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Speaker 3: houses and nobody told her, Like so embarrassing. I mean,

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Speaker 3: had I didn't see it, had I seen it, I

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Speaker 3: would have told her. But like, were people not noticing?

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Speaker 3: Were people nervous? Like why does that happen? But you're

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Speaker 3: so nervous? You know. Another thing I remember going through

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Speaker 3: RUSH is I went to UC Berkeley. There was a

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Speaker 3: famous guy at the time who'd walk around naked. He

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Speaker 3: was called the naked guy and like you'd hear about

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Speaker 3: this guy. Well, on the first day of Rush, which

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Speaker 3: was before school even started, we were brand new freshmen.

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Speaker 3: This guy was deliberately circulating the sorority areas. We were

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Speaker 3: running between houses, and it was like, again, like do

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Speaker 3: you acknowledge it? Do you tend you don't see it

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Speaker 3: because you're so nervous and you're so focused and you're

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Speaker 3: running around. Anyway, it was a perfect welcome to Berkeley.

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Speaker 2: I'll bet, I'll bet.

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Speaker 1: Well, let me let me just ask you, because I

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Speaker 1: can't emphasize enough that that not having social media, not

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Speaker 1: owning a cell phone like there was, it was a

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Speaker 1: whole different thing. Like you were lined up and maybe

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Speaker 1: that is sort of similar. Went from house to house.

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Speaker 1: I can't even remember, like I guess how I got

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Speaker 1: the instructions in terms of you know, what to do,

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Speaker 1: where to go, where to show up, when I just

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Speaker 1: remember standing with groups of strange girls and in being

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Speaker 1: shuffled from house to house, and that is that how

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Speaker 1: you did it?

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Speaker 3: I mean totally. I mean it's like the whole thing

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Speaker 3: was really confusing, right right, but it actually was more organized,

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Speaker 3: like at first, I was like, like, are we just

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Speaker 3: are they just going to leave you? Like is it

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Speaker 3: just randomly a party? Now I'm an outgoing person, like

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Speaker 3: I'll go up to anybody and like, you know, introduce

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Speaker 3: myself and say hi, but not everyone does. But you

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Speaker 3: kind of worry, like are you going to these parties

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Speaker 3: and are you going to sit there awkwardly it is

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Speaker 3: no one going to talk to you. But actually it

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Speaker 3: was really organized. From what I remember, you got a schedule,

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Speaker 3: told you what time you're going to what house? Right?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Right, now, yeah, you're right, I do, yeah, I do

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Speaker 2: remember that.

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Speaker 3: And then you went as a group and then like

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Speaker 3: you'd go to the house and they'd open the door

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Speaker 3: and usually they'd like I don't know, there was like

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Speaker 3: a performance and maybe the girls would sing a song

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Speaker 3: and like welcome you into their house. And then it's

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Speaker 3: interesting because from the rushi's perspective, it just seems like

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Speaker 3: you go in the house and a bunch of people

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Speaker 3: come and talk to you. There was never a moment

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Speaker 3: that you're without somebody, right, Like they made sure that

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Speaker 3: there were always like probably a few people talking to you.

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Speaker 3: And it's so interesting because on the other side, from

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Speaker 3: the member of perspective. It was incredibly well organized and orchestrated.

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Speaker 3: Like we had teams, and the teams rotated to like

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Speaker 3: a rushi would be invited to sit at a certain

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Speaker 3: seat in the living room or wherever, and then the

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Speaker 3: members had teams and the teams would rotate to specific

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Speaker 3: seats so that we would all each team would meet

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Speaker 3: the same girl, and we'd all like have something to

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Speaker 3: say about the girl.

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Speaker 1: I remember when I was like, I remember that my sorority,

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Speaker 1: we would put the girls that we really wanted because

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Speaker 1: we would do skits as well or songs, so we'd

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Speaker 1: put the girls that we really wanted in like the

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Speaker 1: front two rows, let's say, before the skits, so that

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Speaker 1: we could I mean, I.

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Speaker 3: Know, like, oh, that's so funny. We didn't be able

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Speaker 3: to like.

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Speaker 2: Make eye contact with them.

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Speaker 1: And I remember, actually because I already had had friends

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Speaker 1: in five so I remember being in one of those

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Speaker 1: front two rows not even realizing that, you know, whatever,

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Speaker 1: that meant something. But there were all those kind of

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Speaker 1: little like behind the scene tricks that everybody got to

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Speaker 1: kind of look at, you know. And also I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you felt this way, but I went to

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Speaker 1: so many houses that I knew not only did I

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Speaker 1: not want to be in those sororities, I knew that

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Speaker 1: I had not chance of being in them. And part

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Speaker 1: of that for me was that in nineteen eighty eight

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Speaker 1: at University of Texas, Jewish girls weren't really getting in

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Speaker 1: to the other sororities. So and I knew that for me,

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Speaker 1: it was going to come down to these three Jewish sororities.

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Speaker 1: And that is actually it's it's really how it was.

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Speaker 3: Like.

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Speaker 1: I have friends who went to school in Dallas and

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Speaker 1: then went to ut and watched their very dear friends

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Speaker 1: go into sororities that they knew they couldn't get into.

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Speaker 1: And this is now, really we're going back in time,

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Speaker 1: but still that actually existed.

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Speaker 2: And you know it was so I was.

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Speaker 1: I just knew automatically there were three, but I remember

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Speaker 1: going into all of the other houses and also just

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Speaker 1: feeling I was insecure when I was that age anyway,

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Speaker 1: what was what was I twenty one and just watching

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Speaker 1: all these beautiful girls and just feeling less than and insecure.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, did you have any of that?

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Speaker 1: Was it like that at Berkeley?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Wow, that's so interesting to hear, because like I

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Speaker 3: heard about that more from my mom's generation. I mean Berkeley, right,

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Speaker 3: because it's California. It's not Berkeley, you know, California and

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Speaker 3: Texas are so different in the eighties and nineties, right, yes,

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Speaker 3: because I mean I don't remember there being a Jewish sorority,

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Speaker 3: but there definitely were Jewish fraternities, not because Jewish guys

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Speaker 3: couldn't join the others, but more because there were groups

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Speaker 3: that just liked how and I think there were non

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Speaker 3: Jewish members of those Jewish fraternities. So like, so Berkeley

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Speaker 3: it sounds like was quite different. But oh my gosh,

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Speaker 3: it's kind of heartbreaking also hearing your story of like

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Speaker 3: going to these houses and seeing these beautiful girls and

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Speaker 3: feeling less than.

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Speaker 2: I had the information ahead of time.

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Speaker 1: I knew that there were going to be three houses

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Speaker 1: that were probably going to be interested in me, right,

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Speaker 1: and so it wasn't it wasn't a big surprise, but

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Speaker 1: it was just like, yeah, just rushing the other ones.

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Speaker 1: It was just wrote It was like, oh my god.

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Speaker 1: But I still remember being walking in and just feeling

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Speaker 1: so intimidated. And houses, you know, yeah, the physical houses

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Speaker 1: at Texas are overwhelmingly huge and beautiful, like you know,

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Speaker 1: it's exactly what you would picture in terms of Greek

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Speaker 1: life in the South, and it was I just I

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Speaker 1: just remember, you know, seeing everybody seemed all of the

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Speaker 1: girls seemed so perfect and they just looked yeah.

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Speaker 2: And they had it down and I did.

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Speaker 3: Not well, and that was that was created to be

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Speaker 3: that way, right because every house, like you know, everyone

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Speaker 3: was smiling, everyone was like they were trying to put

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Speaker 3: their best selves forward because they wanted to be the

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Speaker 3: house everybody wanted, right like, and so some of that

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Speaker 3: was like contrived. It really was contrived, and some houses

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Speaker 3: maybe did it better, like I do remember, like some

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Speaker 3: houses just seem more joyful and beautiful and perfect and

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Speaker 3: all of that. It's interesting though, because what I do

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Speaker 3: remember is the the members could not speak to rushi

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Speaker 3: even if you knew them, and so there was like

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Speaker 3: that whole rule but secret like to your point, which

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Speaker 3: house might you end up in and if you knew

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Speaker 3: each other secret messages. I remember these secret messages being

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Speaker 3: sent between members and Rashi's by parents actually, because because

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Speaker 3: it's interesting. I mean, you talk about being a Rashie

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Speaker 3: and being nervous and the house is looking perfect, but

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Speaker 3: on the other side of it, the houses didn't want

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Speaker 3: to waste invitations on people that didn't want their house.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's it right, Like as much as they

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Speaker 3: appeared like, oh, you want us more than we want you,

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Speaker 3: it was really interesting. And the reason these secret messages

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Speaker 3: were passed is because the houses wanted to know what

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Speaker 3: all the reshis that they liked were thinking.

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Speaker 2: Now went through the parents. I mean, my mother had

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Speaker 2: zero I don't even know if she knows that.

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Speaker 1: I was in a sorority to these days, so I

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Speaker 1: can't imagine she was definitely not passing notes with other moms.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I can't I have not heard that.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, and I remember like among our group of

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Speaker 3: friends because like we knew a lot of that people

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Speaker 3: in the houses that we wanted to join, and our

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Speaker 3: parents knew each other. And so yeah, these secret messages

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Speaker 3: would come and and you know, someone would take a survey, okay,

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Speaker 3: rank your preferences, which house do you want? And then

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Speaker 3: they'd send it back. But there were also.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, did you go in like with the dream house,

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Speaker 1: like were you did you know before the process started

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Speaker 1: that you.

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Speaker 3: Wanted to be I had a sense of which houses

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Speaker 3: I might want to join, and I will say the

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Speaker 3: house I ended up joining from the first day was like,

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Speaker 3: I was like, that is the house I want to join.

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Speaker 3: Like it just was so clear to me from day one,

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Speaker 3: and it stood out to me so much from the

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Speaker 3: others right way. I got lucky, you know, I just

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Speaker 3: I found I mean, first of all, it was like,

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Speaker 3: I'll use the word it was so like you walked in,

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Speaker 3: it was joyful. I mean the physical house itself, in

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Speaker 3: my opinion, was also the most beautiful of all the houses.

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Speaker 3: And many of these houses were really beautiful, Like there's

264
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Speaker 3: a there's a famous architect, nam Jillian Morgan, she had

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Speaker 3: designed a lot of these houses. These are like former mansions,

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Speaker 3: you know that are converted and so a lot of

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Speaker 3: them are really beautiful. But physically this house was beautiful.

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Speaker 3: It was so joyful. The girls in the house, I

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Speaker 3: just really connected with them. I just felt like they

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Speaker 3: were my people, you know. They were fun, smart, interesting,

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Speaker 3: you know, and it just seemed like there was such

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Speaker 3: a special camaraderie among the members and that just really

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Speaker 3: spoke to me. Right. It felt comfortable for me. It

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Speaker 3: felt unhappy, you know. Every time I was there, I

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Speaker 3: was like, I don't know, it's just your guts. Sometimes

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Speaker 3: it's a gut check.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I knew that I wanted to be a fie

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Speaker 1: because I was rooming with three fives, So I knew

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Speaker 1: that that was the way it was going to go.

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Speaker 1: But it was interesting becuse when I walked into SDT,

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Speaker 1: I felt really comfortable there in a different way. And

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Speaker 1: the reputation at the time was so ridiculous, but there

283
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Speaker 1: was you know, the fives were pretty girls and SDT

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Speaker 1: that was the night. Those were the nice girls, and

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Speaker 1: I felt so comfortable there. But there was almost this

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Speaker 1: feeling of I'm going to be a fie and so

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Speaker 1: I wonder how many how many girls go through it

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Speaker 1: and they, you know, they had this idea of where

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Speaker 1: they're supposed to be, right, so this is my what

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Speaker 1: do they call it now, the top tier sorority, and

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Speaker 1: this is where and I hope that they allow themselves

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Speaker 1: to go into these other ones and and connect and

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Speaker 1: feel like potentially it's a fit. I mean, I I

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Speaker 1: think I felt like maybe even it was more of

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Speaker 1: a fit at SDT, but I was already sort of

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Speaker 1: like destined to be in a fight, And I'm glad

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Speaker 1: that I was, I made fabulous friends. I had a ball,

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Speaker 1: But you know, I can't say that I had such

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Speaker 1: an open mind, did you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, No, it's a really good point. I just wrote

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Speaker 3: a recommendation for a friend's daughter for she's going to Wisconsin.

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Speaker 3: And what I said to her what and apparently what

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Speaker 3: her mother told me was that that's the house she wants,

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Speaker 3: that's her top choice, right, And what I told her

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Speaker 3: what the daughter was keep an open mind, I said,

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Speaker 3: first of all, and she's also really nervous. She told me,

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Speaker 3: I'm like super nervous, and I like kind of explained

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Speaker 3: the process. I was like, don't be nervous. But what

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Speaker 3: I told her too, is you're interviewing them as much

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Speaker 3: I mean interviewing, I'll use that word, but like, you know,

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Speaker 3: don't forget that you're interviewing them as much as they're

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Speaker 3: interviewing you. And don't forget, you know, to keep an

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Speaker 3: open mind. You might I said, I've had friends whose

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Speaker 3: daughters thought they wanted a certain house and they ended

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Speaker 3: up joining a different one, right because that was the

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Speaker 3: house they loved. So I think you're exactly right. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I told her, I don't forget you might change your mind.

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Speaker 3: Keep an open mind, and it'll make you less nervous too,

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Speaker 3: to think. It's not like you're right being You're the

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Speaker 3: only one being evaluated here because you're you know, ask

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Speaker 3: them a lot of questions, try and get a sense

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Speaker 3: of the houses.

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Speaker 1: It's so funny because my daughter would use the phrase

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Speaker 1: top tier. I just wanted to puke. I was like, Rachel,

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Speaker 1: I don't even know, but guess what I mean?

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Speaker 3: That was.

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Speaker 1: We had that back then too, we just didn't have,

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Speaker 1: you know, the words to attach to it.

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Speaker 2: And so it's.

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Speaker 1: It's you know, because everybody knew, you know what where

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Speaker 1: which sorties were the top and right that were known

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Speaker 1: for one thing and some that were known for another.

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Speaker 1: And I also look now at on TikTok specifically. But

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Speaker 1: these skits, they're not even skits like back in the

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Speaker 1: day because I was skits chair or whatever it was

336
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:58,120
Speaker 1: after I pledged, and it was like it was songs

337
00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,320
Speaker 1: that we would write on loosely paper to musicals or

338
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Speaker 1: to like Broadway. Now it's like it is no joke.

339
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Speaker 1: These are full fledged performances. These girls are dancers and

340
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Speaker 1: they are gymnasts. I don't know what's happening. I mean,

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Speaker 1: don't you see that on TikTok now, Like wow, I

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Speaker 1: just they're all right, I mean yeah, ours were Ours

343
00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,960
Speaker 1: were like not like that. Ours were way simpler, maybe

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Speaker 1: a little sweeter, more clothes for sure.

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Speaker 3: Work, that's for sure. Yeah. I mean we did have

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Speaker 3: like a theme day where we do like I think

347
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,680
Speaker 3: we did a Barry Manila song, you know, copa Cabana,

348
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Speaker 3: and we like decorated the whole house and we like

349
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Speaker 3: did a whole performance. But yeah, it was not like

350
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Speaker 3: the TikTok level performances you see now. It was like

351
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Speaker 3: us like you know whatever. But it was fun, you know,

352
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Speaker 3: and that was the fun of it. But it certainly

353
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Speaker 3: wasn't as polished as they might do now. But but yeah,

354
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Speaker 3: but actually like interesting, I mean, just one second, going

355
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Speaker 3: back to what you were saying about like the expectations

356
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Speaker 3: being open. I do remember girls getting not getting the

357
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Speaker 3: house they wanted and getting a different house and yet

358
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Speaker 3: being happy with that house. Like sometimes you know what

359
00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:12,359
Speaker 3: you don't get, like you get the right thing in

360
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:12,760
Speaker 3: the end.

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Speaker 1: Well, it sounds like you really like you knew and

362
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Speaker 1: you went in there and you felt it, And I'm

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Speaker 1: guessing that you felt that way throughout the four years

364
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:22,800
Speaker 1: that you felt because I didn't.

365
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Speaker 2: Really.

366
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Speaker 1: I don't think I felt always like I fit in.

367
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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if I would have fit

368
00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,879
Speaker 1: in better to a different sorority, but I definitely didn't

369
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,560
Speaker 1: feel like the same as And that could have to

370
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,040
Speaker 1: do with the fact that I was such an insecure,

371
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,760
Speaker 1: you know, young person, and I don't think I was

372
00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:47,040
Speaker 1: really comfortable even you know, being me at that point.

373
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Speaker 1: But I definitely had you know, the girls were they

374
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Speaker 1: just all felt like they had their shit together, and

375
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,280
Speaker 1: they all had either boyfriends or they were eating all

376
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,359
Speaker 1: the time. And I mean, this is just I didn't.

377
00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:04,320
Speaker 1: I would walk in there and feel a little bit

378
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,679
Speaker 1: like a fraud. You Oh gosh, I did not have

379
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:07,440
Speaker 1: any of that.

380
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:11,560
Speaker 3: That's so hard because it's not like, you know, you

381
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:13,399
Speaker 3: choose a college and you may not like it. You

382
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:17,240
Speaker 3: can transfer, like you can't transfer sororities. You join once

383
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Speaker 3: kind of it doesn't work, you deactivate.

384
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Speaker 2: So that is well, So it wasn't.

385
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:22,639
Speaker 1: But it wasn't ha me to imply that it was

386
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,000
Speaker 1: not like I had friends and we had fun. It

387
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Speaker 1: just I didn't really, I didn't. I don't think it

388
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:31,760
Speaker 1: was a great fit. Maybe Sworary life wasn't a great

389
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:33,680
Speaker 1: fit for me, I don't know. But I also, you know,

390
00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:38,200
Speaker 1: I had transferred from Boston University because I was homesick,

391
00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,960
Speaker 1: and I had all of these friends from sleep away

392
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,560
Speaker 1: camp in Texas and they were doing mixers and matches

393
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:46,720
Speaker 1: and they were living the Sororied life, and I would

394
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,320
Speaker 1: you know, with all of the fun that came along

395
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,919
Speaker 1: with that and the football games, and I feel like

396
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:53,280
Speaker 1: I was in the middle of the city school and

397
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,840
Speaker 1: I really felt like I was missing out and I

398
00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,399
Speaker 1: really wanted that Greek life and back you know, in

399
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,520
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty at Boston University, there was not much of

400
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,080
Speaker 1: a Greek life, so I felt like I was missing

401
00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:10,359
Speaker 1: out on this whole entire college experience. And you know,

402
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,320
Speaker 1: UT was a great place if for that, and still

403
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,720
Speaker 1: is if you want that sort of classic Greek life experience.

404
00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,640
Speaker 1: But I think I didn't know, really, like at that point,

405
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:23,760
Speaker 1: I was trying to figure out who I wanted to be,

406
00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:28,680
Speaker 1: and so I didn't It wasn't seamless for me, right,

407
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:30,960
Speaker 1: Like the transition to Greek life was it for you?

408
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,280
Speaker 3: But I guess, I mean it did feel seamless a

409
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,639
Speaker 3: little bit. I was a freshman, I can I can

410
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,679
Speaker 3: understand it probably was even harder as a transfer, right

411
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,480
Speaker 3: because friendships are already formed. It's harder to break in

412
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:50,919
Speaker 3: sometimes because like we had people join our house like

413
00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,359
Speaker 3: they had already been at UC Berkeley, but they joined

414
00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,480
Speaker 3: our house as juniors. And I always kind of remember,

415
00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,360
Speaker 3: I think it was harder for them to form friendships

416
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,680
Speaker 3: because group friendship groups are already formed a little bit,

417
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 3: not to say, you know, people aren't inclusive, but but

418
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:08,959
Speaker 3: I could see how that would be more difficult.

419
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,919
Speaker 1: I think I had friend It wasn't it was just

420
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,320
Speaker 1: more of am I really truly a sorority girl.

421
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:15,959
Speaker 2: I don't know.

422
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,080
Speaker 1: Listen again, I wouldn't take it back. It was It

423
00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:20,680
Speaker 1: was fun and I have still dear friends.

424
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I loved it. I got kind of

425
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:28,800
Speaker 3: busy with other stuff and so, you know, to some degree,

426
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:30,399
Speaker 3: I went all I was kind of more all in

427
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,320
Speaker 3: in the earlier years and then I kind of got

428
00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:35,919
Speaker 3: more involved with other stuff, and I feel like I

429
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:40,159
Speaker 3: made some of the greatest friends I have there, and

430
00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,320
Speaker 3: you know, and I kind of cherished that. But yeah,

431
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,440
Speaker 3: I mean I think there was a time that came

432
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,400
Speaker 3: that I kind of was like, you know, I don't

433
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,800
Speaker 3: I don't know. I think there's other stuff I might

434
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 3: do a little more. And then we had people who

435
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 3: deactivated because they just felt it wasn't a fit for them.

436
00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,600
Speaker 3: We definitely had that, and I don't think anyone took

437
00:21:59,600 --> 00:21:59,920
Speaker 3: a person.

438
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 2: So, Katie, were there.

439
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 1: Secret rituals, things that you remember as a pledge that

440
00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:21,960
Speaker 1: you could share with us?

441
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I think being a pledge was like

442
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 3: my favorite time in the house. We felt so celebrated.

443
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 3: The members really went all out to celebrate us, to

444
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 3: make us feel welcome. We had an awesome like pledge leader,

445
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,440
Speaker 3: you know, one of the chapter members takes the job

446
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 3: of being a pledge leader. We had an awesome one,

447
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 3: and we just felt so welcome. You know. We had

448
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,119
Speaker 3: to learn all the like songs of our sorority and

449
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 3: we kind of loved that, and we had activities constantly

450
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 3: and just like we just felt welcome. But like one

451
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 3: of the things I remember, which was like so specific

452
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 3: to sororities and named sororities in the nineties, I don't

453
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 3: know if they still I'll do this, but puffy paint

454
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,640
Speaker 3: and paint pens on like we would get all these gifts.

455
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 3: We had this thing called the Secret CIS and then

456
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 3: that person became your big sis and so like for

457
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,639
Speaker 3: like a week, you didn't know who this person was,

458
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,200
Speaker 3: and they would do they would leave you secret grifts.

459
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 3: They would plan like secret little like I don't know,

460
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 3: I got an invitation along with three other pledges to

461
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,160
Speaker 3: show up on the roof. We had this really pretty

462
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 3: roof and show up for dinner. And we had this

463
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 3: like and what are your favorite preferences Sushi, Italian whatever,

464
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 3: And we showed up and like, we have no idea

465
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 3: who planned this thing, but we had this really awesome dinner.

466
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 3: But all these gifts with puffy paint like decoration.

467
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 2: Oh my god, do you remember.

468
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 3: That pillowed photo albums like you know a little plastic

469
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 3: like photos and you know frames and when.

470
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,919
Speaker 1: They get a signed I guess little sister, Little's, BIG's

471
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,920
Speaker 1: whatever the big. I just I remember with Rachel, I've

472
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 1: never seen anything like it. She would get boxes upon

473
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:13,359
Speaker 1: boxes of clothes and jewelry and her big w The

474
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 1: boxes were yeah, it's a hole.

475
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 3: We got like ribbons, I mean it was it was crazy.

476
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you remember you know it's funny because you

477
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 1: talk about I remember there was always like there was

478
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: a mean pledge.

479
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 2: There was like what was it called them, like a

480
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:32,680
Speaker 2: mean pledge.

481
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: Pledge chair and a nice clo Oh that was like yeah,

482
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 1: they almost like did that, I want to say, on purpose,

483
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 1: and they were like they were like pledge whatever. Anyway,

484
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,880
Speaker 1: So at one point, one of like the initiation rituals

485
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: was that they kidnapped us, right, and they took us

486
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: to some room somewhere and they had a scale in

487
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 1: the room and they told us that they were going

488
00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:00,919
Speaker 1: to weigh us and line us up in order of

489
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,679
Speaker 1: our weight. And I was I thought I was going

490
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:05,360
Speaker 1: to pass out.

491
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,919
Speaker 2: Wow, right, I mean they didn't do that.

492
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 3: Oh my god, they didn't end do it.

493
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 1: It was a joke, but it was not a funny one.

494
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 1: But there were some like that was like the mean

495
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 1: you know, there was a mean one and a nice one.

496
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, I heard about. So here's the difference between the

497
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 3: you know, you and I are a few years apart

498
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 3: of age, and that's the difference.

499
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,360
Speaker 4: Right, the few years that were apart, a lot changed

500
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:32,360
Speaker 4: already because there had been some major hazing incidents.

501
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 3: I mean not to say we didn't have stuff like that.

502
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 3: But but and now I think it's probably like they

503
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 3: take it very seriously because these things are dressed in

504
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 3: a very serious way. But like I remember hearing stories that, yeah,

505
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 3: they would take pictures of the pledges in like a

506
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 3: bikini or something and then they'd circle the fat you know,

507
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 3: on the picture. Like I remember hearing stories. We didn't

508
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:57,879
Speaker 3: have that. I mean, we did have a bit of

509
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 3: like I would call it fun hazing, like it was

510
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:04,160
Speaker 3: you know, I.

511
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 2: Like wearing stupid shit on campus.

512
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, like that kind of stuff. It wasn't anything that

513
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 3: felt traumatic for me now that said, like I don't know,

514
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 3: there might have been people who did feel whatever they

515
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 3: were asked to do it was traumatic. And yeah, there

516
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 3: was like a little bit of like tough love that

517
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 3: maybe came from like some of the seniors or something

518
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 3: like that. But like sometimes what I realized is it

519
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 3: meant like you know, they'd make you take shots or right,

520
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 3: they'd like kind of called to you. Now, it's interesting

521
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 3: the kidnapping, we actually reversed it. We had a tradition

522
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:39,120
Speaker 3: called Pledge sneak Night where we would plan to kidnap

523
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 3: the whole chapter and all the members and we'd plan

524
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,679
Speaker 3: like a whole fun party, and that was always like

525
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 3: one of the traditions I loved about being a Pledge.

526
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 3: We had the best time. We really did a whole

527
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 3: like extensive like we actually runted a bus and like

528
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 3: went all over the Bay Area and we had like

529
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,119
Speaker 3: a whole succession planned that and then and then the

530
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 3: joke is we always did like Monday night was chapter

531
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 3: meeting night, and so that was always the easiest time

532
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 3: to do it because like you never knew when you

533
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 3: could get everyone together, and like members would always kind

534
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 3: of as a joke, pretend to escape the room, like

535
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 3: we try and lock them in and get everyone in there,

536
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 3: and they and I think we hired a fireman stripper age.

537
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 3: I guess it was a surprise. And then we had

538
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 3: a bunch of fraternity guys come and guard the doors

539
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 3: so that no one could get out and chase people down.

540
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 3: But yeah, that was something that was something I was

541
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 3: always a fun tradition, and it was fun for members

542
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 3: too because you never knew every Pledge class did something

543
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:44,919
Speaker 3: really different and really fun. But yeah, no, I mean,

544
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 3: these are good memories, and I mean, but I also remember,

545
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 3: like as a member, we knock down drag out fights

546
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 3: over girls during the rush process, like it was a series,

547
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,679
Speaker 3: And I wonder how they do it now, you know,

548
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 3: like in light of like how they've changed even the

549
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 3: recommendations to make things more inclusive. I wonder how they

550
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 3: manage Like back back when when we were in sororities,

551
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 3: like the process was every day a rashi gets a

552
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 3: bunch of invitations, Like at the end of every day,

553
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 3: the house has to decide who to invite to the

554
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 3: next day, and the numbers come like every day Reshi's

555
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 3: visit fewer houses and the numbers get cut and so

556
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,000
Speaker 3: like as you get toward the end of rush week,

557
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 3: it's a really hard decision for the houses to decide

558
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 3: who to invite because like girls get you know, members

559
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 3: really want certain people. So like at the end of

560
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 3: every day, we would lock ourselves in the dining room

561
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 3: and discuss every single girl and it got really right, yeah,

562
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 3: it got really really take sup oh yeah, And I

563
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,840
Speaker 3: mean and sometimes we were still debating, like long after

564
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 3: midnight and like the wee hours of the morning because

565
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 3: we couldn't come to consensus.

566
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: Right we I remember, we would literally just put our

567
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 1: heads down. I mean, this is how talk about like

568
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 1: good old days and like raise our hands.

569
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 2: I don't know how like there was no like that's

570
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 2: how the decisions were made in the end.

571
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: And we were supposed to obviously see each other's vote,

572
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: but I don't know.

573
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:22,719
Speaker 2: Everyone was peaking.

574
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, the discussions they would go on, and the arguments,

575
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 3: and I mean it really got I remember one of

576
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 3: the members stood up and said she would deactivate if

577
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 3: if we didn't give a bid to one of the

578
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 3: rushi's that she loved. Like it got really, I mean,

579
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 3: this was a passionate thing, like and so when Reshi's

580
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 3: like think, oh, I got to impress them.

581
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 4: Like it's a hard decision for the for the houses too, right,

582
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 4: It's not like.

583
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 3: You know sometimes they have to cut girls they don't

584
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 3: want to cut or can't agree on.

585
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: Right right, right, Yeah what about So now let's say

586
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: we're in the and I'm wondering, well, first, you know,

587
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: was there did you just already have a certain reputation

588
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 1: on campus?

589
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 2: Was it known for anything?

590
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,560
Speaker 3: I mean I've been like staying away from saying like

591
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 3: we were kind of the it so you know what

592
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 3: I mean, when everyone wanted I stayed away from like

593
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 3: trying to be a leadist or whatever. But I think

594
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 3: to some degree our house was maybe thought of that way. Yeah,

595
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,239
Speaker 3: I mean I can say from like my perspective, like

596
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 3: some of the greatest girls were in that house, you know, like, yeah,

597
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,239
Speaker 3: they were smart, they were pretty, they were awesome, they

598
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 3: were fun, they were great people, they were good friends.

599
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 1: Like yeah, I remember, like though it was like it

600
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: was also important because you're trying to figure out how

601
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: to get into the best house so you could meet

602
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:43,640
Speaker 1: the best.

603
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 5: Guys, right, like so interesting, which yeah, because there was

604
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 5: sort of alliances between certain houses and certain fraternities a

605
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 5: little bit, like the fraternities would invite certain houses to

606
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 5: their parties and stuff like that exactly. But and I

607
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 5: remember it's funny to use then because we used to

608
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,959
Speaker 5: have mixers. This is not all about I don't mean

609
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 5: to make this all about religion and being Jewish, but

610
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 5: that's just my experience. But I remember that some of

611
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 5: the fret houses, like Jewish girls had this reputation that

612
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 5: like it was okay for them to have sex before marriage.

613
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 3: Oh interesting, in the Catholic and religious ones not so much.

614
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, so you know, a lot of the like

615
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:27,200
Speaker 1: a lot of the houses would want to like have

616
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: mixers with.

617
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 2: Us, do you and just in terms of mixers, do

618
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 2: you remember so? I?

619
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: Uh so, first we would have a match, so we'd

620
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: have matches and then mixers. And at the match you

621
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: got asked hopefully lots of times you didn't, but you

622
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: got asked to wait, No, you got asked to the mixer,

623
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 1: and then the match. The match, Yeah, you got went

624
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: to a mixer, and then you got asked to the match.

625
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: And if you didn't, you hung out with the girls

626
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: that didn't get asked.

627
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 3: Oh like this, Oh my god, really all this?

628
00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 2: Oh no, I'm really sorry.

629
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 1: I think I'm putting I am paidtiness Like it was

630
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: this traumatic, you know experience for me. And I loved

631
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: being a FI and I love Greek life. It just

632
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: wasn't always it wasn't It wasn't maybe always right and

633
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 1: didn't always feel natural for me, But I would do

634
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: it again. I don't want to make it sound like

635
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 1: it was so awful. It really really wasn't. But like things,

636
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: I just remember that you were so it was so intense,

637
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: like I don't know what your this situation, the situation

638
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: was with you in terms of like the mixing and

639
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: matching with frats. But that was a big part of

640
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:36,479
Speaker 1: it all, you know, for us back then. And you know,

641
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: you couldn't even at u T like you you did

642
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 1: not go to football games if you didn't have a date.

643
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: So obviously he's a huge football school. So you didn't

644
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: go if there, if you didn't have a date. You

645
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: and when you did have a date, you got dressed

646
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: up for these football games.

647
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 2: I mean I'm talking about, you know, how things have

648
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 2: changed obviously.

649
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, has that changed in the South?

650
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've heard I've heard that it has, but you know,

651
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: I would think so. I mean we're in you know,

652
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. I hope that things would have evolved

653
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: a bit.

654
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, the football games too, like you don't need a date.

655
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 3: I mean, we were always very aware that in California

656
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 3: it was really different than the South, right, Like, sofe

657
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 3: still is different.

658
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 2: I bet you it still is.

659
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 3: I'm guessing probably that, I you know, I don't know,

660
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 3: I would think so, Like some of the traditions are

661
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 3: just a lot stronger in the South, maybe, and we

662
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 3: were a lot more casual about things like I remember

663
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 3: hearing about like friends at southern schools needing dates to

664
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,959
Speaker 3: go to the football game, yeah, and getting dressed up,

665
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 3: because that was not what we did at all.

666
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 4: And a lot of the parties, I mean, the way date,

667
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 4: the way parties worked for us was a little less

668
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 4: structured that way. So like fraternities might have a big party,

669
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 4: and then they might have date parties where each guy

670
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 4: would ask a date, and then we had I think

671
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 4: all of our parties were days parties where you'd ask

672
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 4: specifically ask a date. We might have had some bigger ones,

673
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 4: but generally, I mean it was different too, right, because

674
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,600
Speaker 4: a fraternity at the time would have parties at their house,

675
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 4: whereas we were not allowed to have parties without cahol

676
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 4: at our house, right, and so we would have to

677
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 4: like rent a bar or a restaurant or something like that.

678
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 4: And so a lot of times it was date parties.

679
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,240
Speaker 3: You'd ask your own date, and so there wasn't really

680
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 3: like a structure around who got invited, who didn't get invited?

681
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 3: Can you go? Do you not go? Right? And if

682
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 3: a guy asked you to a date party, you know,

683
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 3: you didn't feel left out if you didn't get asked

684
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 3: or whatever there were I mean, but we did have

685
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 3: some legendary parties. I remember in fact, we got in

686
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 3: big trouble for one of our parties and we got

687
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 3: put on probation like everything. Oh my god. So we

688
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:54,240
Speaker 3: had a party called the set Up your Buddy Party,

689
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 3: where you did not choose your date, someone else chose

690
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 3: your date for you. And it was also a graffiti party,

691
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 3: which meant.

692
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 2: That we were all white.

693
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,800
Speaker 3: Yep. We wore white T shirts and we had pens,

694
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 3: and everyone would just graffiti all over each other, which

695
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 3: like I would equate to like you know how Halloween

696
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 3: parties sometimes get a little more like wild because when

697
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 3: you're dressed as something else, you lose your inhibitions a

698
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 3: little bit. I guess I had equate it to that.

699
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 3: So and so the way it worked was you would

700
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 3: actually make a T shirt for your date, not knowing

701
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 3: who your date was going to be, and it was

702
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 3: usually some kind of funny like and so that way,

703
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,879
Speaker 3: and then the dates would the girls would all go

704
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 3: to the party location first, and then the dates were

705
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 3: supposed to go to our house after we left and

706
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 3: pick up the bag with their name on it that

707
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 3: had the T shirt and whatever like bun snacks and

708
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 3: shot you know whatever, those little bottles alcohol whatever it

709
00:35:55,480 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 3: was in a shot, glasses and pens of course, graffas

710
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 3: and so like I remember I think I was I was,

711
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 3: where's Waldo? And my date was Waldo? Or like you'd

712
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 3: find some like combination of spaghetti meatballs whatever. Yeah, And

713
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 3: so what happened the year I was a pledge is

714
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 3: the party got really out of control and the party

715
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 3: actually ended early because one of the guys, so the

716
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 3: party was at this like restaurant bar, I don't know

717
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 3: what it was, that was like on the water and

718
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 3: there were some docks and stuff under he fell off

719
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 3: a railing like he was just I remember watching him,

720
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 3: like he was sitting there and there's his date, and

721
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 3: then all of a sudden he's gone, and like his

722
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 3: dates standing there like with their arms up, like looking lost.

723
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 3: And it took a while for people to figure out

724
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,919
Speaker 3: that he was sitting on the railing. He fell off

725
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 3: the railing. Fortunately he fell onto a dock rather than

726
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,720
Speaker 3: in the water where he probably would have driven. People

727
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 3: were so drunk nobody even realized what happened, and an

728
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 3: ambulance came. Party was over. But the problem was, since

729
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,760
Speaker 3: the ambulance came and like all this stuff had happened,

730
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 3: what they saw was that girls were passed out under

731
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 3: the sinks in the bathroom, like no one noticed what

732
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 3: was happening. Like it was really a disaster. We got

733
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 3: in huge trouble. We were put on probation from the

734
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:35,320
Speaker 3: national Organization and our advisors. They brought in an alumni

735
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 3: from our sorority who was a recovering alcoholic to talk

736
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 3: to us about alcoholism and how, you know, just having

737
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 3: a good time drinking in college is how you know

738
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 3: she used to just think it was fun in college

739
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 3: until she realized it wasn't. So yeah, I mean sometimes

740
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 3: parties got out of control.

741
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they you know the difference though between then

742
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: and now. So I don't know how you guys did it,

743
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 1: But like you would have, we didn't have cell phones, right,

744
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,359
Speaker 1: so nobody was taking pictures because if we did at

745
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 1: the time, I'm sure I would have it would have

746
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 1: been I would have gotten myself into a lot of trouble.

747
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 1: But like we used to have like mister photo tech

748
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 1: guy come like a week later after the party and

749
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 1: you could like pay for the memories that you want

750
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: to keep. I don't know if you had that, like

751
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,720
Speaker 1: like all these different pictures and they were all labeled

752
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: and it'd be like APHI and CBT Texas, Oh you

753
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:31,480
Speaker 1: weekend or whatever it was, and so it was harder

754
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 1: to prove that, you know, I don't know bat was

755
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:37,800
Speaker 1: going down because you couldn't.

756
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:39,960
Speaker 2: There was no real photo documentation of it.

757
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,120
Speaker 3: That's right. I loved those parties. I mean, I have

758
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 3: a huge puffy album. I hate these albums with like

759
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 3: some kind of fabric and like all this like puffy

760
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 3: puffy stuff to make a puffy I have a huge

761
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,040
Speaker 3: album with all those party picks. I love those party picks. Yeah,

762
00:38:56,080 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 3: we had mister photographer man Mark. Mark was exactly that

763
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 3: we order our pictures. But you're right, things weren't documented.

764
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 1: I'm thinking a lot about just like the secrets and

765
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 1: the traditions that we had that would not I don't

766
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:25,560
Speaker 1: think wouldn't fly today. And I mean there were certain

767
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,399
Speaker 1: things like did you guys have got it? I feel

768
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: so old when I when I say this, But we

769
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:34,839
Speaker 1: would have the those ceremonies, those pin the pin ceremonies.

770
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 1: I'm saying it right where get pinned? And then you'd

771
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:39,839
Speaker 1: sit down with a candle. It was called a candle lighting,

772
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 1: and we'd sit in the living room and we'd pass

773
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 1: the candle around and whatever girl like was pinned, the

774
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:49,919
Speaker 1: candle would stop at that girl. And I think about

775
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 1: the fact that that was it wasn't an engagement, right,

776
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 1: it was some girl was being engaged to be engaged.

777
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, did you do that?

778
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: I mean, now, first of all, sweet I was I

779
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: would kill my daughter now she was pinned. She would

780
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: have like, I'll tell you to your bed at home,

781
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 1: little girl, you know.

782
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 3: I mean, we didn't mean it's interesting because we used

783
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,439
Speaker 3: to hear that that had been a thing, right, because yeah,

784
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 3: like most girls were not I mean in the nineties

785
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 3: at UC Berkeley, a lot of girls, I mean some

786
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,840
Speaker 3: maybe thought they would be getting married soon, but a

787
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 3: lot of girls, I don't think we're looking to get

788
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 3: married any like right away. Like I think a lot

789
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 3: of the girls kind of wanted to a little bit

790
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 3: experience life before that. But but so we would hear

791
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 3: about these things, and we kind of thought it was

792
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 3: a thing of the past, right. But then actually we

793
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 3: did have a pinning and it was really sweet. There

794
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 3: was this I think when I was like a freshman

795
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 3: or sophomore. She was a couple of years older, and

796
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 3: she and her boyfriend had been dating like all through

797
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 3: college and they were just the sweetest couple and he

798
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 3: pinned her and it was really sweet. And I don't

799
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 3: know if like they even knew like what the tradition

800
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 3: or how it was done, but it was really really sweet.

801
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:08,600
Speaker 3: We all were there and they are married still and

802
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:11,839
Speaker 3: two of their kids go to East Berkeley. I mean,

803
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 3: I just saw them. They're happily married, their kids are

804
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:15,360
Speaker 3: like grown.

805
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 2: Up in college and amazing.

806
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 3: It's just the sweetest thing, you know.

807
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 1: We I just think this conversation is so interesting in

808
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 1: terms of like, you know, Texas versus California, and the

809
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: difference is I'm I'm I don't know if anymore. It's

810
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:31,359
Speaker 1: they're so stark the differences are. But I would think

811
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 1: that they they like a college like Berkeley, just I

812
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: would think inherently would be.

813
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 2: Less traditionally Greek.

814
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 3: And you're exactly right, and we always kind of knew that.

815
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 3: So like, I think California is going to be different

816
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 3: than the South, which you're right, and then you see

817
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 3: Berkeley maybe, but like I know, I think Stanford. So

818
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 3: they didn't have a house, so they had to come

819
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 3: to our house for their initiation and all the less

820
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 3: ceremony of everything, and so I would say like probably

821
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,880
Speaker 3: Stanford's like we were, I don't know about like you know,

822
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:08,800
Speaker 3: UCLA and places like that, Southern, oh I, Southern California,

823
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:10,839
Speaker 3: like USC might have been a little more like a

824
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 3: southern situation. Like I had friends that were in houses

825
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 3: down there that was probably a little closer to what

826
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,359
Speaker 3: the South was. But yeah, UC Berkeley I think was

827
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 3: certainly less traditional, although like you know, some of the

828
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:27,600
Speaker 3: rules really got enforced. So I mean, like with the

829
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 3: Rush rules like that you couldn't talk to people like

830
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 3: I got in trouble. So I was actually president of

831
00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 3: the whole sorority system, the Panmadanic system.

832
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, like so you're kind of like you're supposed to lead.

833
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 2: That's like, that's what is it, that's the lead information.

834
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 2: I don't know. I was talking to a president.

835
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 3: And the rule was during Rush, we actually had to

836
00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 3: be sequestered. We had to stay at a hotel, like myself,

837
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 3: the Rush heare, and all the whole council that was

838
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 3: involved in the whole sorority system. We had to like

839
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 3: extract ourselves from our houses because we had to be unbiased,

840
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:04,600
Speaker 3: like we were part of the whole rush process. We

841
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 3: were supporting Rushi's and we couldn't have an agenda like

842
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 3: around you know, who we wanted for our house or

843
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 3: anything like that, and so we had to stay at

844
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 3: a hotel. We had to be like sequestered from our house.

845
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 3: It was actually like really sad because I missed my friends,

846
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 3: you know, it was like kind of sad, right. I

847
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 3: enjoyed being with the other like people from the council.

848
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I remember Daisy and Gia, my two co hosts,

849
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 1: talking about that.

850
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I got in trouble because I you couldn't

851
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:36,919
Speaker 3: talk to anybody. I actually went to visit some friends

852
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 3: at a fraternity house and someone spotted me and reported

853
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 3: it and I got in serious trouble for that. So,

854
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 3: like you know, it was it was relaxed at Berkeley,

855
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 3: but like some things were serious.

856
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 2: There are Yeah.

857
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: I remember, like, yeah, Daisy and g said there was

858
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:53,320
Speaker 1: always someone who had to be impartial.

859
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 2: They were it was somebody in Greek life.

860
00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, but there was leading the groups you know, rushies around, right,

861
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,840
Speaker 1: and so it was very important that you didn't know

862
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 1: what sorority that person was in.

863
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 3: Yes, Yeah. And then the other thing is like there

864
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 3: were some other things that were like very specifically yucy

865
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 3: Berkeley that was so different. Like so remember you know

866
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 3: what I was talking about that the Rush sneak party,

867
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 3: like when the Reshis would sneak out and play in

868
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 3: a party for all the members, right, And there was

869
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,720
Speaker 3: one year where they did like a whole.

870
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 4: Mexican theme night and so tequila shots, sombreros, like it.

871
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 3: Was just like a whole party theme. And you know

872
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,560
Speaker 3: in the nineties, there was a restaurant called Chevy's in

873
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:42,400
Speaker 3: California or it was like Texmax.

874
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know because they had it in Austin.

875
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 3: I still do absolutely, And what was your Birthday? Like

876
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 3: you'd get us some morero, they'd sing, you know, it

877
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 3: was all part of the celebration. And so it just

878
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 3: felt like a way to celebrate. And we had a

879
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 3: house next to us that wasn't a sorority. It was

880
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 3: actually yucy Berkeley had these themes houses, and that was

881
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:04,840
Speaker 3: I think it was called Kasawaquina. It was like a

882
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 3: house that was with Hispanic people, right that lived there.

883
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 3: And so here's this party. Everybody's like going out to

884
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 3: the bus.

885
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:18,279
Speaker 4: We're in sombreros, tequila, the whole thing, and they're all

886
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:22,320
Speaker 4: standing outside at the house next door or standing outside

887
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:23,760
Speaker 4: looking really upset.

888
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 3: And a couple of us stopped and said, is everything okay?

889
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 3: And they said, no, it's not. It's actually very insensitive

890
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 3: what you're doing. Those hats represent you know.

891
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 4: People who's who are picking beans in the field, and

892
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:42,439
Speaker 4: this is really culturally offensive to us.

893
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 3: That to you it's a party, but to us it's heritage.

894
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,479
Speaker 3: And I had you know, I think now these things

895
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 3: are more understood how to be insensitive to different cultures,

896
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:57,359
Speaker 3: But back then it wasn't something people understood or talked about.

897
00:45:57,520 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: Right, No, I mean I had never heard of the

898
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 1: cultural appro she appropriation was not something that we thought

899
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 1: about back right.

900
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:05,240
Speaker 3: And now, like you know, you go to a school

901
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 3: before Halloween and they have things posted saying, you know,

902
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 3: certain Halloween costumes are offensive to people and you can't

903
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 3: do them anymore, right, Yeah, cultural things, And we didn't know.

904
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 3: When it got.

905
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 4: Reported to the university, we got in trouble with university.

906
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 3: We had to go through the whole like judicial process

907
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 3: and hearing and everything, and it was it was this

908
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 3: really difficult thing because like we were almost like we

909
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 3: didn't know but we were almost embarrassed to say we

910
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 3: didn't know. But that was UC Berkeley. It was a

911
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 3: little bit ahead on stuff like that.

912
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 1: So interesting because just in terms of I'm interested in,

913
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,719
Speaker 1: you know, when you look back at all of your

914
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 1: experience rushing and being in a sorority, the impact that

915
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 1: it has had on you. I think that the part

916
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 1: where you kind of learn, or you're actually learning, learning

917
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 1: about what's okay what's not okay socially and you know,

918
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: in terms of just the world around you. I mean,

919
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 1: I think that a lot of that good stuff does

920
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:04,800
Speaker 1: happen in a sorority. You know, you're in this little

921
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 1: microcosm where you're surrounded by you know, other women of

922
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 1: the same age, and and you have an opportunity to really,

923
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 1: you know, not just have mixers and matches and parties,

924
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:20,120
Speaker 1: but kind of grow and expand your horizons a little.

925
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 3: Bit, right right, and be a better person.

926
00:47:22,680 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 2: I think do you feel like that after Yeah?

927
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 3: I mean I do you.

928
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 2: Had it had that kind of an impact on you?

929
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 1: Yeah?

930
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 3: I mean I would say even like if somebody's they

931
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 3: would check our grades, Like if your grades weren't above

932
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 3: a certain level, you'd have to go in and see

933
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 3: the standards group, which was like the Yeah, I mean

934
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,319
Speaker 3: there was I would say, like, yeah, I mean the

935
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 3: girls in our house studied, got good grades, like you know,

936
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 3: we're serious about school. And I think there was like

937
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 3: you know, a common sense of values. But those were

938
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 3: but that was like the culture you chose right and

939
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 3: the people you chose right at the time, right, some

940
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 3: comes from national but yeah.

941
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, well listen, I absolutely loved having you with me.

942
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:09,160
Speaker 1: I think that there's so much you know, I've now

943
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 1: sort of you've ignited this little spark in me. I

944
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:14,959
Speaker 1: think it's so interesting to compare colleges on the East

945
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 1: Coast the West coast, you know, the sorty life and

946
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 1: how it differs, because it sounds like it really is

947
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,800
Speaker 1: definitely different, you know, at someplace like Berkeley versus University

948
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:29,399
Speaker 1: of Texas. So yeah, yeah, i'd I'd love to talk

949
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:32,839
Speaker 1: more about that. Yeah, but I absolutely I loved having

950
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 1: you on. Thank you so much for joining me. Is

951
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: there anything else you want to tell us about or no?

952
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 3: This was fun. I think this was I mean it

953
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 3: was fun and interesting for me to learn too and

954
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 3: hear about your experience.

955
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yea, yeah, Well I thank you and it's

956
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 1: also nice for me to have somebody you're you are

957
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 1: younger than I am. My friend, but who's not, you know,

958
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 1: twenty five to talk about this.

959
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 2: I thought about it or talking about in the long time.

960
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:59,919
Speaker 2: It is fun. Okay, So thank you, thank you Katie. Yeah,

961
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 2: take care of you, you too.

962
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 3: By