Speaker 1: This is so good, and I'm so embarrassed because these
Speaker 1: kids don't do this perfect. And that's why I'm telling this.
Speaker 1: This is why I'm telling this story.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Off the Cup, my personal anti anxiety antidote.
Speaker 2: I've told you guys this before. My job is weird.
Speaker 2: It's weirder than you might think. Yeah, I do the news.
Speaker 2: I cover politics. I've covered every presidential since two thousand
Speaker 2: and four, midterms, local state elections, national politics, foreign affairs, war,
Speaker 2: national disasters. But being in the news has also opened
Speaker 2: very fun, weird doors to other things like Bravo as
Speaker 2: you know, which is also so fun. I love going
Speaker 2: on watch What Happens Live or interviewing bravolebrities at Bravo
Speaker 2: con or for this podcast.
Speaker 3: I also did.
Speaker 2: I did a Seinfeld and Curb talk show.
Speaker 3: I did Jeopardy. I've been at a bunch of docs.
Speaker 2: I once shot a pilot Get This with Dion Sanders,
Speaker 2: Bobby Bones, Juliana Ransick, and Lauren Sanchez. Yeah that Lauren
Speaker 2: Sanchez never saw the light of day. That's probably for
Speaker 2: the best, But I don't know how I've ended up
Speaker 2: in some of these places.
Speaker 3: It's a wild ride. It's upmost have been a lot
Speaker 3: of fun. Okay, So one of.
Speaker 2: The coolest things I've ever done involves my next guest.
Speaker 3: And I don't know if he knows this.
Speaker 2: You know him from countless TV shows and movies, from
Speaker 2: Jack Ryan to Criminal Minds, The Adjustment Bureau to Lioness.
Speaker 3: He's so talented.
Speaker 2: I mean, he just always disappears into his roles and
Speaker 2: yet you cannot take your eyes off of him. He's
Speaker 2: also kind and thoughtful and funny. And he's a big
Speaker 2: baseball fan, which I love. Michael Kelly, Welcome to Off
Speaker 2: the Cup.
Speaker 1: Oh thanks for having me. What a pleasure to be here.
Speaker 2: I'm so glad you're here. I just think you're so great.
Speaker 2: So I purposely left out the thing. You're perhaps apps
Speaker 2: best known for your Emmy nominated role as Doug Stamper
Speaker 2: in House of Cards?
Speaker 3: Did you know I was also in House of Cards?
Speaker 1: I did not. I'm embarrassed to say that. Did you
Speaker 1: Did you play yourself?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I played myself in two episodes they did like a
Speaker 2: CNN panel. It was like me Van van Jones, Paula
Speaker 2: Gala Yes, yes, and like On with Jake, I think
Speaker 2: On with Jake Tapper and we did two episodes and
Speaker 2: it was the coolest thing I've ever done.
Speaker 3: I still have the script. It's framed in my office.
Speaker 2: I loved it, but I love we have that we
Speaker 2: share this.
Speaker 3: Little connection, even though I didn't get to meet you there.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's that's super cool. I love that they did that.
Speaker 1: On Ause of Cards. They use a lot of real
Speaker 1: people and you know, just everything that bo Willheman did
Speaker 1: with that show, though it was made everything so infinture,
Speaker 1: you know the way they you know, if you had
Speaker 1: an if you were holding a newspaper article, it actually
Speaker 1: had what you were talking about. It was a written article.
Speaker 1: They actually went to the effort of making the newspaper
Speaker 1: article about what you were talking about, which is never
Speaker 1: the case never.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it was pretty wild.
Speaker 2: Well, that very similitude and you know, commitment to getting
Speaker 2: it right is something we loved as well in my business.
Speaker 3: And it's really funny. The common saying was.
Speaker 2: That Politics was actually a lot more like Veep than
Speaker 2: House of Cards, But I think that's why we loved
Speaker 2: it so much.
Speaker 3: And Veep was hilarious.
Speaker 2: We but like real close to reality, like real close, and.
Speaker 3: House of Cards felt more like a true escape.
Speaker 2: And then of course reality decided to say hold my
Speaker 2: beer and gave us Donald Trump, and then it was.
Speaker 3: Like, oh, you know, House of Cards was was a comedy.
Speaker 1: It was the insane, look at wild political ride, right,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden weren't so crazy anymore,
Speaker 1: and it was just like, oh wow, yeah, so while
Speaker 1: we were making it, that actually happened, and that was
Speaker 1: pretty pretty wild. Man, it was wild.
Speaker 2: I I don't think it's wrong to say that you
Speaker 2: were the breakout star of that show. I mean, we
Speaker 2: just loved watching your intensity. And you know, I was
Speaker 2: just looking at a post headlines every person Frank and
Speaker 2: Claire Underwood kilt.
Speaker 3: Those two were just terrorists.
Speaker 1: Man, that's so good. There's many, There's many, There's so
Speaker 1: many directly and indirectly.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: What did you think when you saw the finale, the
Speaker 2: script for the finale, I mean.
Speaker 1: So that was so crazy, right, because all that stuff
Speaker 1: happened with Kevin, and you know, he was gone, and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the writers had to I had
Speaker 1: to rewrite an entire season in a very shortened amount
Speaker 1: of time. And so really it was Frank and Melissa
Speaker 1: and God bless in the writers and chowrunners at the time,
Speaker 1: and Robin and myself and we would sit there and
Speaker 1: we were brainstorming and talking things through as we were filming,
Speaker 1: because it was they were given and the almost impossible
Speaker 1: task of having to rewrite your entire season, like I said,
Speaker 1: in such a limited amount of time without a full
Speaker 1: writer's room. It was insane and without oh, without your
Speaker 1: lead actor. Right, there's that too, So you know, I
Speaker 1: knew it would just sort of it all happened while
Speaker 1: we were working, you know, the the ending. They came
Speaker 1: up with the ending while we were doing it. So
Speaker 1: not not that episode that day, but they're during the crison.
Speaker 1: You know, I knew, or at least I figured that
Speaker 1: he was gonna go.
Speaker 2: He's going, right, yeah, And I don't know was I
Speaker 2: assume assassination was discussed rights his political figure, like I
Speaker 2: assume a number of things were discussed of how to
Speaker 2: get rid of your lead who also happens to be
Speaker 2: playing the president, right.
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, Like what do you do? What do you have?
Speaker 1: How's it going to happen? And then and then the
Speaker 1: fact that I did it is just it's crazy, it's crazy.
Speaker 2: Remarkable, remarkable, And that was Yeah, as you mentioned, that
Speaker 2: was around Kevin's downfall. Woll What was he like to
Speaker 2: work with before any of that happened.
Speaker 1: I mean, look, for me, you know, honestly, I got
Speaker 1: the job and I was just like, oh wow, I
Speaker 1: get to go learn with you know, Kevin Spacey and
Speaker 1: Robin Wright and Kamara and David Fincher and like all
Speaker 1: those people were set when I got the job. So
Speaker 1: for me, I was just like, I just want to
Speaker 1: go be a sponge. I want to learn as much
Speaker 1: as I can. And so every day working with him,
Speaker 1: I just watched him, you know, and I you know,
Speaker 1: did my stuff, but I very much paid attention. He
Speaker 1: was one of my favorite actors. You know, he's so
Speaker 1: incredibly talented. Yeah, and I think that's one of the
Speaker 1: most unfortunate things from everything that happened, is we will
Speaker 1: be deprived of most likely deprived of seeing that man's talent. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Ever again, probably right. So for me, it was just
Speaker 1: one of those things that I was like, I'm just
Speaker 1: going to watch this guy and I'm going to learn
Speaker 1: and I'm going to see how he does it. And
Speaker 1: you know, we all do it different, we all do
Speaker 1: the same, we all do it different, you know. So
Speaker 1: for me, it was just it was fun to watch
Speaker 1: and learn every day, you know, and and pick his
Speaker 1: brain when I could. And he was pretty He's pretty private,
Speaker 1: you know. He got in his corner and worked really
Speaker 1: hard on his stuff. I'd be in my corner working
Speaker 1: hard on my stuff and they'd say we're ready for
Speaker 1: you guys, and you go and you can do it.
Speaker 1: And it was an incredible experience as a as a
Speaker 1: you know, I say young actor, I wasn't so young,
Speaker 1: but it was. It was ten years ago. I was,
Speaker 1: you know, I was younger than I am now. Certainly
Speaker 1: you were younger thirteen years ago, and I wasn't. I
Speaker 1: didn't really have had a career, but I didn't. The
Speaker 1: House cards really put me on the map. So for me,
Speaker 1: I was just like, oh, gonna I'm gonna absorb here, you.
Speaker 3: Know, Yeah, how did that role come to you?
Speaker 1: So crazy? I auditioned for every male role you saw
Speaker 1: on that show like I was originally. When I auditioned,
Speaker 1: I would go into my agency and just put myself
Speaker 1: on tape for Hammerschmidt, the guy who ran the paper
Speaker 1: for Lucas, who was Kate Mart's love interest for the
Speaker 1: Corey Stall character. Yeah, I love that character me too.
Speaker 1: And I kept kept going back in. They kept every
Speaker 1: week or two weeks will pass and they'd be like,
Speaker 1: they want to see you again for another role. They
Speaker 1: want to see you again for the role. It's like great.
Speaker 1: And so eventually lay and David Fincher came to New
Speaker 1: York and they were you know, they're in LA and
Speaker 1: they they came to New York to meet some folks
Speaker 1: and I had like this, I had a callback for
Speaker 1: Lucas and the Corey Stall character. I'm like, you know
Speaker 1: his name. It was just the two of them in
Speaker 1: the room and myself and Fincher just kept was pacing
Speaker 1: in the background. Loray's reading with me, and he would say,
Speaker 1: all right, try like this, Okay, now do it like this,
Speaker 1: all right on this take, I want you to think
Speaker 1: about this and this and this and this. He's just
Speaker 1: throwing all these different like forty five minutes. I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is so cool. And at the
Speaker 1: end of it was like and I read for these
Speaker 1: two different characters. At the end, he goes, all right, Honestly,
Speaker 1: I think you can play anybody, but I'm going to
Speaker 1: have you read for somebody else, and in my head,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I have auditioned for every male character who's left.
Speaker 1: In my head is like and thinking back, I was like,
Speaker 1: well Stamper didn't really say a lot in those first
Speaker 1: two episodes, you know. And he was like he's And
Speaker 1: I said, okay, well, I'll just go sit outside and
Speaker 1: go over and I'll come back in and he was
Speaker 1: like no, no, no, no, you can put it on tape.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I'd really rather do it with
Speaker 1: you here in the room. And he was like, I
Speaker 1: promise I'm going to watch it. And I was like
Speaker 1: he was telling me no, and so I said, okay, right,
Speaker 1: and I left and I went with Julie Shubert in
Speaker 1: New York City into her office, like I don't know.
Speaker 1: A week later and put myself on tape for Stamper.
Speaker 1: And then this is crazy. I went to New Orleans
Speaker 1: to film now you see me, yep, And I was
Speaker 1: down there when they had what's called the test. And
Speaker 1: for people who don't know, a test is when they
Speaker 1: you're making it to the semifinals, they and they basically
Speaker 1: they bring you in and you go in front of producers, directors,
Speaker 1: studio and in this case, it was Netflix, and I
Speaker 1: wasn't available to go because they couldn't let me go
Speaker 1: because some locations that we had locked down, and so
Speaker 1: I literally couldn't go to the callbacks. And they were like, well,
Speaker 1: they're just going to play your tape at the callbacks,
Speaker 1: and I was like, that's gone. And I literally was
Speaker 1: like it's gone because you you know, being in the
Speaker 1: room and being able to do things on the fly,
Speaker 1: it's just it's so different. And so I just wait
Speaker 1: to myself. I was like, that was a great experience
Speaker 1: and I'm grateful for it, and David Finch or Laray
Speaker 1: Mayfield know who I am now and that's great, right,
Speaker 1: And then I don't know, like a few days later,
Speaker 1: I'll never forget the exact place the window. I was
Speaker 1: looking out, how far that window was open. A pebble
Speaker 1: I knocked off the window sill. I got a call
Speaker 1: from my manager and he said the assistant got on
Speaker 1: and said, hey, Michael, I be for you, and I
Speaker 1: was like cool, And so he gets on. He was
Speaker 1: like hey Doug, and I was like, alb it's Michael.
Speaker 1: I said, I said, you got me mixed up, and
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, I'm sorry, I was looking for Doug Stamper,
Speaker 1: and I literally just stopped and I was like, you know,
Speaker 1: I just had a tear in mind. I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, like I get I get emotional talking
Speaker 1: about it now because it was so that was a
Speaker 1: life changing moment. And somehow at that moment that I
Speaker 1: was looking at that window when I knocked that pebble
Speaker 1: off and looking down the street in New Orleans, I knew.
Speaker 1: I just knew, and uh yeah, that was That was
Speaker 1: a moment I'll never forget ever. I Mean, it's a
Speaker 1: very long winded story about how it came about.
Speaker 2: It's a great story, and I have like a vicarious
Speaker 2: hill because we all hopefully have at least one of
Speaker 2: those moments in our life where we know everything is
Speaker 2: going to change, we get the thing we're desperate to get,
Speaker 2: you know, kind of against all.
Speaker 3: Odds, and we remember where we were. I like, I
Speaker 3: can feel it. That's incredible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty well.
Speaker 2: Man, did you know at the time that it was
Speaker 2: going to be this huge phenomenon or I mean, I'm
Speaker 2: sure you could tell the talent was good and that
Speaker 2: the people at attached to it were good, But did
Speaker 2: you know what it was going to be.
Speaker 1: No, No, I knew at that moment. At that moment,
Speaker 1: I knew that I was going to have this opportunity
Speaker 1: to go work with people who I just you know,
Speaker 1: had on the highest of highest pedestals. Yeah, from Bow
Speaker 1: to Fincher to Robin to Kevin, everyone involved, And so
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm going to go have the time
Speaker 1: of my life working with the best of the best.
Speaker 1: Right Netflix, at the time, this was their first streamer,
Speaker 1: this was the first show. Like, yeah, it's crazy to
Speaker 1: think that that was thirteen years ago and that was
Speaker 1: the first streaming show. So no, I had no idea
Speaker 1: that it was going to be what it became. To
Speaker 1: the point, yeah, where I was, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: guess we were on the second episode and David Fincher
Speaker 1: and I had become somewhat close, and he said we
Speaker 1: were I forget what we were doing, but he was like, Hey,
Speaker 1: do you want to go watch a rough cut of
Speaker 1: the first in my office? And I was like yes.
Speaker 1: He was like all right, and so I went in
Speaker 1: there and I watched it, and I came out and
Speaker 1: I was like, He's like, what'd you think. I was like,
Speaker 1: holy shit, He's like, what did you think I was
Speaker 1: going to do? I was like, I know, but holy.
Speaker 3: Shit, it was unreal.
Speaker 1: And he was like He's like, were you down of me?
Speaker 1: And I was like, no, it's not that. I'm just
Speaker 1: like that was And I remember calling my manager and
Speaker 1: I was like, Buddy, we are making something so special
Speaker 1: and so different that people are going to lose their minds.
Speaker 1: I said, I don't know if anyone's ever going to
Speaker 1: see it, but we're making something really special because oh
Speaker 1: my god, who knew what that was going to be?
Speaker 3: Right, Like, yeah, that's the craziest and this was going
Speaker 3: to be Yeah that's what I mean, Like, was this
Speaker 3: going to be?
Speaker 1: Like? You know how many failed networks and things have
Speaker 1: there been?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Is this something that we just we made this incredible content.
Speaker 1: We're to just disappear into the ethos, you.
Speaker 3: Know, listen, it didn't matter because it worked. It more
Speaker 3: than worked.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, I want to talk more about your work,
Speaker 2: but first I always like to ask Michael what kind
Speaker 2: of kid were you?
Speaker 1: I was not a great student. I was very mischievous,
Speaker 1: but not in a bad mean way, never mean spirited
Speaker 1: trouble I was, but I was in trouble a good amount.
Speaker 1: I had a hard time, had our time focusing. I
Speaker 1: still do, but at the time, at the time, it
Speaker 1: wasn't adhd or whatever though, you know, they were just like, oh,
Speaker 1: he's a spas or yeah he's nuts. Yeah. But I
Speaker 1: was outside all the time at the same time, you know,
Speaker 1: like we got on our bikes in the morning and
Speaker 1: we would come home when you heard the back porch bell,
Speaker 1: like it was right. You'd be at the pool, the
Speaker 1: tennis courts, the bike trails or whatever, you would hear
Speaker 1: the bell and you go home. So very active, yeah,
Speaker 1: and somewhat mischievous.
Speaker 2: What you're born in Philly, What age do you move
Speaker 2: to Georgia?
Speaker 1: Like a year like I was a year and a
Speaker 1: half old. I think we moved to Georgia to Atlanta
Speaker 1: suburbs Atlanta. Then we moved to Texas until I was
Speaker 1: in fifth grade and then fifth grade on my folks
Speaker 1: or my father passed this year, but my mother still
Speaker 1: lives in the same house we grew up in. So
Speaker 1: pretty cool, pretty cool.
Speaker 3: And I know your dad just passed and I'm so sorry,
Speaker 3: thank you. What kind of dad was he?
Speaker 1: The best? He really was, truly the best. He was
Speaker 1: a flawed man, like many men of that generation, you know,
Speaker 1: But he was the best at that I could have
Speaker 1: have had rest asked for. And he was a best friend,
Speaker 1: and he was he was so many things to the
Speaker 1: four of us. I'm the oldest of four. So he
Speaker 1: was an incredible role model. Like I said, there was
Speaker 1: a he eventually quit drinking and smoking and everything, but
Speaker 1: there was a period there where he probably wasn't the
Speaker 1: best role model. Yeah, but at the same but at
Speaker 1: the same time, he was a hell of a lot
Speaker 1: of fun of your own. Maybe not as much for
Speaker 1: my mom, but for the kids he was us. But
Speaker 1: he was a good man too, and he taught us.
Speaker 1: He taught us all how to be how to be
Speaker 1: really good people, and how to have a good sense
Speaker 1: of humor about life in general, and just have fun. Man,
Speaker 1: he had a lot of fun, and he taught us
Speaker 1: how to have a lot of fun. And we still
Speaker 1: we still do. We're very very tight family. Mom and
Speaker 1: the and the forces and all the grandkids.
Speaker 2: Now, what did he make of your decision to become
Speaker 2: an actor.
Speaker 1: I think he thought I was fucking nuts. If you
Speaker 1: don't know the you know my mom, especially though she
Speaker 1: was like, because I was studying political science, I wanted
Speaker 1: to be a lawyer and and I fell into it.
Speaker 1: And I remember calling her and she was like, well, Michael,
Speaker 1: if you think about it, if you if you're a lawyer,
Speaker 1: you're going to get to act all the time. And
Speaker 1: I was like, no, Mom, this is this is really
Speaker 1: what I want to do. And but then to their credit,
Speaker 1: they came to see me in the Glass of Menager
Speaker 1: and and afterwards I remember both my mom and dad
Speaker 1: having having tears in their eyes, now like we're behind
Speaker 1: you one thousand percent, Like they didn't have a lot
Speaker 1: of money, and you know, they weren't like we're behind you,
Speaker 1: go get a place in New York, like yeah, you're
Speaker 1: a good kid. It was it was more like we
Speaker 1: believe in you and there's no and that's it for me, man,
Speaker 1: Like that that was it Like having them and my
Speaker 1: siblings never doubt that I was going to be an actor,
Speaker 1: like that's everything. They never said what about this or
Speaker 1: what are you gonna do if it doesn't work out?
Speaker 1: They've never said that to me, And so I think
Speaker 1: this half the reason I made it. You know, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm believing in you like that someone that you care
Speaker 1: about so much, believing in you like that.
Speaker 2: You're at Coastal Carolina right studying. So when do you
Speaker 2: fall into it? How does it fall onto your lap?
Speaker 1: I think it was my third year. That's why I
Speaker 1: stayed for five. I was I need an elective. My
Speaker 1: advisor was like, well, if you want to be a lawyer,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to be comfortable getting up in front
Speaker 1: of people. I recommend you take this acting class. And
Speaker 1: I was like, wow. He said you had too many.
Speaker 1: I was trying to take too many core classes. And
Speaker 1: he was like you're going to fail. He's like, you
Speaker 1: need some electives. And I was like okay, and so
Speaker 1: he recommended this class. And then you know, the teacher
Speaker 1: was like, I don't know, two weeks in me to
Speaker 1: do the scene. And I was like, I'll go and
Speaker 1: I do it with my my scene partner's Sonny and
Speaker 1: and she was like, can I talk to you after class?
Speaker 1: And I was like yeah. She's like, how long have
Speaker 1: you been acting? I was like, I've never done this before.
Speaker 1: And she was like, oh, you got something, and she
Speaker 1: just her and the other professor, Chuck Wessell, and her
Speaker 1: name was Sandy Shackelford. They just encouraged me, and you know,
Speaker 1: it was this. I was the first person to graduate
Speaker 1: with a theater degree there, so they finished the program
Speaker 1: for me so that I could graduate with that degree
Speaker 1: in five years. And they you know, there wasn't a
Speaker 1: lot of kids, so I basically had two private teachers,
Speaker 1: and you know a lot of our plays were cast
Speaker 1: with some mostly the school, but people were taken from
Speaker 1: the community as well because we didn't have a big
Speaker 1: but we had this gorgeous theater still to this day,
Speaker 1: one of the most beautiful theaters I've ever performed in.
Speaker 1: And so it was just just a total fluke. Or
Speaker 1: maybe it's just like that's where you're supposed to be,
Speaker 1: right where you're supposed to, where you're supposed to be
Speaker 1: because I went only was that coastal, because I was
Speaker 1: a runner and I had a scholarship to a few
Speaker 1: small regional schools and that was one of them. My
Speaker 1: dad and I went to visit and we left and
Speaker 1: he was like, oh, you're going here, right. It took
Speaker 1: us down to the He took us down to the
Speaker 1: beach and he's like, so we train here sometimes and
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know if we ever went
Speaker 1: back there to train again, but he was it was
Speaker 1: a selling point. I'm sure. Yeah. We drove away from
Speaker 1: the beach in like one minute, and the drive days
Speaker 1: like you're going here, right, I was, Yeah.
Speaker 3: That's incredible though.
Speaker 2: So you you have the schools sort of not only
Speaker 2: nurture this talent in you, but also create program around
Speaker 2: you basically, so I imagine you feel pretty obligated like Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm going to go out and do this now.
Speaker 1: Yeah right. Yeah. They actually helped me get my first
Speaker 1: job too, which was a I was I did like
Speaker 1: this touring children's theater. It's like it's like four people
Speaker 1: in an eighties custom van.
Speaker 4: With with the sets and the actors and everything, and
Speaker 4: you would you would take off and you would go perform,
Speaker 4: the kids throwing snot at you and ship it was.
Speaker 1: And I was like when I remember I got the job,
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, like I want to do it.
Speaker 1: I said, just don't. I don't want to. I don't
Speaker 1: want to play a tree, you know. I'm They're like no,
Speaker 1: it's usually like the Prince and then the bad guy,
Speaker 1: and then the big bad the big bad Wolf, and
Speaker 1: then the princess and I was like, all right, So
Speaker 1: I did that for like six months and then and
Speaker 1: then they asked me to run the program, which simply
Speaker 1: you were the driver of the van and you were
Speaker 1: in charge of four people. It wasn't was It wasn't
Speaker 1: a big You got like fifty bucks more a week
Speaker 1: or something. And I was like, no, I'm going to
Speaker 1: go to New York man, I'm going to go for it.
Speaker 1: And that was it. I moved to New York City
Speaker 1: and I went for it.
Speaker 2: Was it a slow start or did you get in
Speaker 2: pretty very quickly?
Speaker 1: No, it was it was I want to say, it
Speaker 1: was about seven years before I started to make a
Speaker 1: living wow as an actor, and even then I probably
Speaker 1: kept a job, a side job for a few more
Speaker 1: years after that. Just you know, I was seven years
Speaker 1: when I got my first TV show. But all along
Speaker 1: the way, there were baby steps. And that's what I
Speaker 1: always say to young actors. I'm like, as long as
Speaker 1: you have as long as you're taking baby steps, as
Speaker 1: long as you're making some progress. You know, if you're
Speaker 1: just flatlining, you're there. You know, I'm never wanting to
Speaker 1: say give up on your dream. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: I'm like, you're forty years old and you're not seeing
Speaker 1: baby steps. It's time to good teach acting, you know,
Speaker 1: like because it's hard as shit, it's really really hard.
Speaker 1: But all along the way, you know, it's like seventy
Speaker 1: five dollars a day and then one hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: dollars a day, and then you know, it just it
Speaker 1: got better and better, but slowly. And that was you know,
Speaker 1: going back to the family thing, like sharing every baby
Speaker 1: stuff with them and then being like, yeah, you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: I get a commercial, you know, and then I once
Speaker 1: I started getting commercials and I started making good, you know,
Speaker 1: good money there. And that was back when they used
Speaker 1: to pay you to do that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: Uh huh, right, did you ever consider stopping?
Speaker 1: I did?
Speaker 3: You did?
Speaker 1: I very much did. I was about thirty eight years
Speaker 1: old and I was making a living. I make good money.
Speaker 1: And my brother, who's my best friend, had a very
Speaker 1: successful business building houses. He and his wife are design
Speaker 1: build team in Atlanta. And I love that stuff, like
Speaker 1: this house that we just did is our fifth or
Speaker 1: six renovation. Like Karen and I love it. We love
Speaker 1: doing this stuff. So he was like, I can't find
Speaker 1: someone to take on that I need someone. The business
Speaker 1: is growing and I need someone and I've offered it
Speaker 1: to so many people and be like, here, I want
Speaker 1: to give you part of my company. He's like, but
Speaker 1: nobody has our work ethic. And I was like, you
Speaker 1: know what, man, I was a year of getting you know,
Speaker 1: three episodes of Sopranos at like five thousand dollars an
Speaker 1: episode or whatever it was. It was not a lot
Speaker 1: of money, and it was a whole year of being like,
Speaker 1: it's between you and somebody else, and it was somebody else,
Speaker 1: somebody else, somebody else, somebody else do the three episodes
Speaker 1: of Sopranos. I end my year with fifteen thousand dollars
Speaker 1: and I was like, my brother's like, dude, we could
Speaker 1: crush together, right. And I called my manager and I
Speaker 1: was like, Buddy, I think I'm gonna I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: to Atlanta and build houses. And he was like, no,
Speaker 1: you're not. And I was like, I could be happy, dude,
Speaker 1: I know I could be happy doing that. And he
Speaker 1: was like, give me to your forty I promise this
Speaker 1: is how you're doing with the rest of your life
Speaker 1: if I absolutely promise you, And so wow, I don't know.
Speaker 1: A couple of weeks went by, and maybe a month
Speaker 1: or two, and it was a lot in that month
Speaker 1: or two. I remember there being a lot of like
Speaker 1: talking with Karen and you know, She's like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: and it was just back and forth. And then I
Speaker 1: booked the HBO limited series called Generation Kill and that
Speaker 1: sent me to Africa for six months. And while I
Speaker 1: was doing that, I booked the Clint Eastwood movie Change
Speaker 1: Link with Angelina Joe Lee Yep, And that's sort of
Speaker 1: that was Prehouse of Cards. But what Clint and Angelina
Speaker 1: said about me publicly before the film came out, they
Speaker 1: both said things about me publicly that that in the
Speaker 1: Whispers of the movie got me in that tend to
Speaker 1: watch that year for Variety, which sort of really puts
Speaker 1: you out there, and then and then things just kind
Speaker 1: of went from there. So it was really I was
Speaker 1: very close, yeah to not giving up to just change
Speaker 1: in horses. You know, I never thought of it as
Speaker 1: given up, because I was like, I've done it, I've
Speaker 1: made a good living doing it. I'm not I know,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it again, but it's like how much
Speaker 1: do you want to to do this? Like it's hard.
Speaker 1: And I tell young actors that all the time. I'm like,
Speaker 1: it's not just hard when you start, it's hard forever,
Speaker 1: Like it's yeah, I have all these great jobs that
Speaker 1: I've done in my career, and you know, you don't
Speaker 1: you never know, you never know. I've had friends be
Speaker 1: very successful at this and they don't do it anymore.
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, it's very difficult to maintain. You know.
Speaker 3: Wow, Yeah, I do know. What was your worst audition?
Speaker 2: And tell me, like, who were you auditioning with against
Speaker 2: when you were coming up? Like what other guys would
Speaker 2: you see in the room all the time.
Speaker 1: Well, that's funny, that's you know David Harbor, Yeah, from
Speaker 1: Stranger Things. So David and I would see each other
Speaker 1: all the time, and and to the point where where
Speaker 1: it was mostly the commercial circuit that we were in
Speaker 1: together and Jim gaff again, the three of us see
Speaker 1: each other. We're totally totally different, but we would see
Speaker 1: each other all the time. And it's funny because now
Speaker 1: all these years later, like I saw David at the
Speaker 1: Emmys one year and we're like, oh my god, wait,
Speaker 1: we never we never hung out, but you knew each
Speaker 1: other so well from and and Gaff again we both
Speaker 1: had kids at the same little elementary or kindergarten school
Speaker 1: whatever in the city, and we reconnected there and so
Speaker 1: and now he's got a place up here near me
Speaker 1: as well. And so it's funny you see these cats again.
Speaker 1: So those are two guys that just they really stick
Speaker 1: out of my head as they were always around. And
Speaker 1: it's great when we see each other now. But Tom
Speaker 1: Scott was good, good buddy of mine that we sort
Speaker 1: of you know, he was ahead of me and I
Speaker 1: would always ask and be able to ask him for
Speaker 1: advice and he was always so great, great to me
Speaker 1: for that.
Speaker 3: What was a bad audition, Oh my god.
Speaker 1: So it was for this is so good. And I'm
Speaker 1: so embarrassed because these kids don't do this. And that's
Speaker 1: why I'm telling this. This is why I'm telling this story.
Speaker 3: It's a cautionary tale. Got it.
Speaker 1: So it was the first night that I kissed my
Speaker 1: now wife and we went out and I was just like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm just head over your this is
Speaker 1: this is my this is my wife like I know it.
Speaker 1: And we went out and we stayed out until I
Speaker 1: don't know, we closed the bars. Now I was like
Speaker 1: four right in the city. And then I walked her
Speaker 1: home and then we stood on her stoop and made
Speaker 1: out for probably an hour and just like not wanting
Speaker 1: to say goodbye, you know, like just kissing and hanging
Speaker 1: out and kissing. And then I went home and so
Speaker 1: now it's and then I walked home because I was
Speaker 1: on such a high. And it was probably like five
Speaker 1: thirty morning. In my audition was like at nine thirty,
Speaker 1: and it was for or ten o'clock maybe, and it
Speaker 1: was for a Johnny Knoxville TV shown us to play's brother.
Speaker 1: And I went in there and I guarantee you I still,
Speaker 1: I mean, I must have reek of alcohol, like I
Speaker 1: was hammered hammer. I was still. I'm sure I was
Speaker 1: still drunk. And I went in and she literally the
Speaker 1: castal director, she was like, are you okay?
Speaker 3: And I was like, and I was like, oh.
Speaker 1: Shit, I'm not hiding this one. You know. I had showered,
Speaker 1: I had brushed my tea that listerine and done everything
Speaker 1: I could to try to make myself presentable. And what
Speaker 1: I should have done was just I never had ever
Speaker 1: called in sick or been like I'd never not shown
Speaker 1: to a very good work ethic, and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I gotta go, when really a smart thing would have
Speaker 1: been like I'm sick, yea, because I was. I was
Speaker 1: definitely sick, and one shape or form, I was sick,
Speaker 1: and so I remember asking me okay, and then it
Speaker 1: was just kind of like one of those things when
Speaker 1: when I did it and then I left and she
Speaker 1: was like okay, Michael, and I was like, I'll see it.
Speaker 1: We knew each other, you know, I've been doing it
Speaker 1: for a little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was just so embarrassed and nothing was ever said
Speaker 1: of it again. But she maybe she had a conversation
Speaker 1: with manager who knows. But you can't do that.
Speaker 3: You can't.
Speaker 1: I'm really lucky that I had another chance with her.
Speaker 1: Like there's a lot of castin writors who rightfully would
Speaker 1: be like, I'm not seeing this is you have a
Speaker 1: These are opportunities that are not everyone who wants to
Speaker 1: go out for a Johnny Knoxville TV spin off ship whatever,
Speaker 1: gets the opportunity to read for it to be seen
Speaker 1: for it. They only see some people. Yeah, your agent,
Speaker 1: your manager worked hard to get you those appointments, and
Speaker 1: to just throw it away like that was so needless
Speaker 1: to say that never happened again.
Speaker 3: It was that's a terrible feeling.
Speaker 2: But listen, I feel like you made the right choice,
Speaker 2: Like it works out with you.
Speaker 1: I have the most amazing wife and uh and that
Speaker 1: night's unfre gettable and yeah.
Speaker 3: That's an awesome story.
Speaker 2: What's the what's the hardest thing you've had to learn
Speaker 2: as an actor Spanish?
Speaker 1: For Jack Ryan? That was I. And this is really
Speaker 1: funny too, because I was I was on the final
Speaker 1: season Outs the Cards and my manager called me and
Speaker 1: he's like, hey, Jack Ryan. They had done the first
Speaker 1: season and they said, Jack Ryan's really interested in you
Speaker 1: for to come join the show. And it's a one year,
Speaker 1: one year commitment, and I was like perfect because I
Speaker 1: didn't want to sign up for another six years on something.
Speaker 1: So I was like great. And so they sent me
Speaker 1: the first episode of the first two episodes of the
Speaker 1: first season and the first script for the second season,
Speaker 1: and I watched the show and I was like, holy shit, man,
Speaker 1: this is really good. And I loved John like I
Speaker 1: had met John before because Emily and I did a
Speaker 1: movie together and I met John. I just I love yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and now we're dear friends. And then I can read
Speaker 1: the script and say, my character is the uh. He
Speaker 1: was the chief of station for for the CIA in
Speaker 1: crocuss Venezuela, so obviously flute in Spanish. And there's this
Speaker 1: whole interrogation scene where I'm speaking Spanish most of the time,
Speaker 1: you speaking English. There's a whole introgation scene where I'm
Speaker 1: speaking Spanish and then odd Spanish here and there. And
Speaker 1: I was like, huh, and I was like so I.
Speaker 1: So They're like, they want to do a zoom with you,
Speaker 1: the creators, and I was like great, and so I
Speaker 1: said to them, I was like, guys, I just write
Speaker 1: up right out of the gate after the niceties and
Speaker 1: nice to meet you and all that I said, but
Speaker 1: I want to be very clear out of the gate here.
Speaker 1: I love the show. I love John, I love this script.
Speaker 1: I love this character. I would love to do it.
Speaker 1: I'm letting you know now I do not speak a
Speaker 1: word of Spanish. And they're like, and they were like,
Speaker 1: you should just see him looking at each other, and
Speaker 1: they're like, no problem, No, it's just a little bit.
Speaker 1: It's a little bit. Don't even worry about it. Maybe
Speaker 1: it wasn't even the full interrogation scene that was in
Speaker 1: the first in the episode that I read, because I
Speaker 1: remember it being more later and I was just like, guys,
Speaker 1: like I told you, and they're like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: it's not a problem at all. So having to learn
Speaker 1: Spanish for that was was incredible. Obviously I've done more
Speaker 1: difficult things acting, but I just remember it's just so
Speaker 1: funny because I was like, it was really hard because
Speaker 1: you had to first you had to memorize it, and
Speaker 1: that's one I'm not very good at memorizing. Funny enough
Speaker 1: being okay, but you had to memorize it in English
Speaker 1: first so that you understood what you were saying.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Then you had to go and memorize. Then you had
Speaker 1: to match all your words in Spanish so you knew
Speaker 1: what you were saying and where to put the inflection
Speaker 1: on words and whatnot. Like it would be like you
Speaker 1: learning Russian and having to make it make sense. I
Speaker 1: know it doesn't sound as like the same thing, but
Speaker 1: it's I know nothing I know Spanish. I mean, the
Speaker 1: four or five words you learn waiting tables, most of
Speaker 1: them bad and bad words. My character didn't say any
Speaker 1: of those. Yeah, So that was one of the more
Speaker 1: difficult things.
Speaker 2: The adjustment Bureau is one of my favorite movies, and
Speaker 2: it's just cool. It's so cool and conceptually and everyone's
Speaker 2: great in it, including you. And that was sort of
Speaker 2: a Doug Stamper character, sort of a man behind him.
Speaker 1: Man. Yeah, he was exactly he was. He was his
Speaker 1: uh like handler, he was yeah, like a chief yah,
Speaker 1: fixer and best friend yeah and best friend.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, what a cool project?
Speaker 2: Did it look as cool when you got the script
Speaker 2: as it ended up being when we all saw it?
Speaker 1: It got cooler actually, Like you know, you because when
Speaker 1: you're reading it, you're like, okay, and they go through
Speaker 1: this door and then you then there's.
Speaker 3: This you know, yeah, the hat. So yeah, it's it's.
Speaker 1: What you're it's what your mind is capable of trying
Speaker 1: to trying to imagine.
Speaker 3: Right, right.
Speaker 1: But then when you see what they did and you
Speaker 1: know the DP and how he did it, and it
Speaker 1: was just like, oh shit, you're making it. Because you know,
Speaker 1: I didn't do a lot of the door jumping and
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. I think, yeah, they froze
Speaker 1: me at some point in time. They did, but it
Speaker 1: was you know, for me, I was like, oh, man,
Speaker 1: Matt Damon and Emily Blunt you know this is this
Speaker 1: is yeah, crazy crazy, like what an opportunity. And and
Speaker 1: now Matt Emily we're all good friends, like it's it's wild.
Speaker 1: He was, you know, a couple of blocks from hither.
Speaker 1: He has a fris a couple of blocks from me here,
Speaker 1: so it's uh and John, We're all just for all
Speaker 1: his buddies, you know. The John thing though. When I
Speaker 1: went to the kickoff party for Adjustment Bureau, John and
Speaker 1: Emiley were playing darts and drinking beers and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: those guys look like fun. I went by myself with
Speaker 1: with a hole in the back of my head from
Speaker 1: where I cut my own hair and shaved a big patch,
Speaker 1: and they and my wife's like, you're going to the party.
Speaker 1: I was like, no, I look an ass on. And
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm gonna wear a hat and she's like,
Speaker 1: don't wear a hat, just just own it. You'd be
Speaker 1: better off. And yeah, so I go, I see John Iman,
Speaker 1: I'm I gonna go hang out with those guys because
Speaker 1: I'm all self conscious and nervous and I don't know anyone,
Speaker 1: and so I went over to them and I was like, hey, man,
Speaker 1: you you guys mind if I join you, and they're like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: come on, and I was like, oh, I'm playing Bubba
Speaker 1: and they're like oh cool and uh. And then so
Speaker 1: we're with my turn to throw the darts. I throw
Speaker 1: the darts and then I'm like, shit, I gotta get
Speaker 1: the darts. And I was like, look before I went,
Speaker 1: I got, I got. I just cut my own hair,
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, I needn't worry about it, over silly.
Speaker 1: And meanwhile, I know that two of them and they're
Speaker 1: wicked senses of humor. The second I walked up there
Speaker 1: like oh my god, covering their faces when I'm walking back,
Speaker 1: you know. So it's like, like, you cut your own hair.
Speaker 1: I was like, guy, do uh because typically i'm or
Speaker 1: most of the time i'm working and someone else is
Speaker 1: cutting my hair. So I don't like have a barber,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't. I just let it go and
Speaker 1: I'm like, got like shit. So then I started learning
Speaker 1: how to just clip it myself. Kind of. I wish
Speaker 1: i'd a a flow beat or whatever. I just used clippers,
Speaker 1: and when I was using the clipper, the guard just
Speaker 1: popped off and it went and I was like.
Speaker 3: Oh fuck, oh no, too good.
Speaker 1: But then but so that's when when they came to
Speaker 1: me for Jack Ryan. I just remember I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, you had to spend time with that dude,
Speaker 1: are you kidding me? Yeah, at the time of my
Speaker 1: life with them that night. So yeah, that's great.
Speaker 2: When does baseball enter your consciousness?
Speaker 1: Be easier to answer when it leaves you means as growing.
Speaker 1: I thought you met like daily.
Speaker 3: Now like, when does it first enter your consciousness?
Speaker 1: I think, like, you know, I don't remember how old
Speaker 1: I was when I tried out for a team and
Speaker 1: I was I remember kicking rocks in the outfield where
Speaker 1: they just like stick him out there, They're never going
Speaker 1: to hit him, and I didn't and I never played,
Speaker 1: but so it was probably like i'd say, I was
Speaker 1: about fourteen fifteen years old when I was working for
Speaker 1: my brother's now father in law, Mark Epstein, who was
Speaker 1: a builder. I worked for him in the summers. I
Speaker 1: worked for him all year round doing stuff around his
Speaker 1: house and then but he gave me tickets to a
Speaker 1: raise game once and I remember going. And then it
Speaker 1: was shortly after that that I discovered that Dale Murphy
Speaker 1: was our neighbor. And then I met Dale and he
Speaker 1: was only our neighbor for a year. Once he got
Speaker 1: his contract, he was.
Speaker 3: Okay at the big contract.
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm going to a nice neighborhood. So he
Speaker 1: has got now Dale and I are friends, so it's
Speaker 1: it's it's it's fantastic. But it was around that age
Speaker 1: and uh and it was the Land and Braves and
Speaker 1: that's my team and it's always always been.
Speaker 2: I know, I'm a I'm a Met fans for rivals, but.
Speaker 1: Good good, good year for you guys.
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, this is.
Speaker 2: You know, I was just thinking back though, like the
Speaker 2: late nineties we had the Mets. I don't know if
Speaker 2: you remember, like nineteen ninety nine Sports illustrated the best
Speaker 2: in field ever. We had Robin Ventura, Mike Piazza, John
Speaker 2: olrud and Gardola, Fonso Rare, Doniez. And at the same time,
Speaker 2: you guys have the best pitching staff of all time.
Speaker 2: You have Maddox, Glavin, Smoltz, Rocker. I mean, what is awesome?
Speaker 1: Everyone forgets Avery. Avery was such a rae. You know,
Speaker 1: everyone says Glavin Maddox smalls Avery was That's right.
Speaker 3: It was amazing, and of course we called him Larry.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like what an awesome era the late nineties
Speaker 2: with Mets braves like that was just so fun.
Speaker 1: Incredible, incredible, man like just incredible and and and look
Speaker 1: you know they are with their their rivalries and the
Speaker 1: Phillies now, like we we all hate each other, but
Speaker 1: we love each other. Like it's you know, it's I
Speaker 1: think people love Chipper Jones. They hated him, but they
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, you don't respect someone like that, right,
Speaker 1: you respect him? Like like Bryce Harper. He gets booed
Speaker 1: every time he comes to Atlanta. But you'd be hard
Speaker 1: pressed to find someone that hates Bryce Harper, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: great baseball player, and he plays the game hard as hell.
Speaker 1: Like yeah, I hate the Mets, but I love Francisco Lindora.
Speaker 1: I love you know, I love Yeah. I don't like
Speaker 1: Pete A. Lonzo. I don't like I think it's take.
Speaker 1: I think he does everything too serious, you know, I
Speaker 1: think he just there's like, have a little fun, kid,
Speaker 1: You're getting to play a game for a lot of money,
Speaker 1: for a living. Have some fun. The home run derby
Speaker 1: is a fun contest. It is not a stress. You know,
Speaker 1: you don't have to get all crazy anyway. That's my
Speaker 1: that's my team. Team Oh my god, the time of
Speaker 1: my life. That's why I have this mustache right now. Well,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you why I kept it. But I got
Speaker 1: to play in the celebrity softball game. It was at
Speaker 1: my field. I stood at home plate and got a
Speaker 1: hit at Truest Park, and I swear to god, I
Speaker 1: was a ten year old kid like I was like,
Speaker 1: this is the greatest, one of the greatest things I've
Speaker 1: ever and I got to do it all with my
Speaker 1: son that weekend. So if you play in that, if
Speaker 1: you play in that game, then they give you tickets
Speaker 1: to everything. So you're at the home run derby and
Speaker 1: you're in a suite and you're at the you're at
Speaker 1: the All Star Game, and you can do anything you
Speaker 1: want in It's like amazing because so there there we
Speaker 1: were the night of the All Star Game and we
Speaker 1: go up to the suite and it's my mother, my
Speaker 1: brother in law, my son, myself, and there's Gary Sheffield
Speaker 1: and Paid Martinez and uh and Ryan Howard and I
Speaker 1: was just like, oh my god. And Sheffield comes over
Speaker 1: and a couple of guys recognized me. So then we
Speaker 1: all kind of get to know each other. And Pedro
Speaker 1: was a big fan, and I was like, dude, And
Speaker 1: again there's a great example of always love Pedro Martinez. Always. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if you're a brave fan or not.
Speaker 1: You recognize the greatest and you appreciate them, right. And
Speaker 1: so Sheffield's like show me your swing, kid to Clint
Speaker 1: to my boy and he was like what He's like
Speaker 1: going on, let me see your swing, And so I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I just step back. I get my
Speaker 1: phone out. I'm like video and my son getting batting
Speaker 1: lessons from Gary Sheffield, and I'm like this is and
Speaker 1: every night my son and I just get into bed
Speaker 1: and laughing, are just like I can't believe this. Like
Speaker 1: he was so appreciative too, and it was just one
Speaker 1: of those moments to share with your son. It was
Speaker 1: like just magical man magic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I feel like baseball is magical, and even
Speaker 2: if you don't get that kind of magical experience, I
Speaker 2: feel like it's every time I go into a stadium,
Speaker 2: it's magical. It doesn't matter who I'm seeing. My husband's
Speaker 2: a Red Sox fan. We're from Boston, so we go
Speaker 2: to a lot of Sox games with my son and
Speaker 2: it's just the most magical. It's religious for me, and
Speaker 2: I'm not religious. It's the closest thing I know to religion.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it really is right like that, you step
Speaker 1: into those parks and you feel it doesn't matter what
Speaker 1: park either. Like I've been to many many parks, you know.
Speaker 1: Wherever I am working, I'll try to go to the
Speaker 1: ballpark there. Yeah, And it's just even if it's my
Speaker 1: team or not. Like I'm like, it's baseball.
Speaker 3: It's baseball.
Speaker 1: In my opinion, it's the greatest game ever created. And
Speaker 1: so watching my son play, I'm at every practice I'm
Speaker 1: in town. I'm at every single practice for the whole practice.
Speaker 1: I'm at every game. Yeah. Yeah, just yeah, I live
Speaker 1: for it. Love it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. My son plays too, and I love it also.
Speaker 3: It's creating. It's incredible.
Speaker 2: But I feel like there's two things baseball and Broadway.
Speaker 2: I'll see anything on Broadway, and every time I'm there,
Speaker 2: I will start crying during the overture.
Speaker 3: No matter what. I don't have to know the show.
Speaker 3: It's funny.
Speaker 2: My mom and I just took my son to see
Speaker 2: a regional production of Annie Regional and real Regional.
Speaker 3: Okay, real regional, you know what that means yes, real regional.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, but can I tell you my mom and
Speaker 2: I are both in tears at the overture. I just
Speaker 2: I get overwhelmed and overcome in those two in those
Speaker 2: two sacred spaces for me, Yeah, it doesn't matter what
Speaker 2: it is.
Speaker 3: I'm just happy to be there. And I just hope.
Speaker 2: Everyone in their lives have has something like that, a
Speaker 2: place like that, a sacred space where they feel like
Speaker 2: a kid again, or they can just magically get overwhelmed
Speaker 2: and everything else from the world, the anxiety, the news, whatever,
Speaker 2: disappears for an hour or two.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so important. That's my daughter. She's so very young.
Speaker 1: She was saying and carrying. Neither one of us sing,
Speaker 1: but she could really sing. And then she was like, oh,
Speaker 1: and then she saw Hamilton. We took her to see
Speaker 1: Hamilton and the end of that first song when it's
Speaker 1: like and she turned to me just like what did
Speaker 1: I just see? And like and now she is full
Speaker 1: on just got back from camp, like she's full on
Speaker 1: musical theater and wants to be an actor. And you know,
Speaker 1: she played She did get to play my daughter in
Speaker 1: Lioness The Last Last for a couple episodes. Yes, but
Speaker 1: she's like, no, I want to be a Broadway That's
Speaker 1: what I want to do. So she's in she's going
Speaker 1: into eleventh grade and that's so I'm very fortunate I
Speaker 1: get both both my son plays. Basically, I'm like, I'll
Speaker 1: go to anything everything.
Speaker 3: So she just did.
Speaker 1: And this ripped my heart out. And it's one of
Speaker 1: the hardest things, you know, with what we do for
Speaker 1: a living, and you miss things right. And we were
Speaker 1: doing Jack Ryan and we were in Dubai and at
Speaker 1: this point we're in London. Very early on, I was like,
Speaker 1: I need these dates. Three days of performances. My daughter
Speaker 1: was playing Doraley in nine to five and I was like,
Speaker 1: I got to get on for it. And Alice, and
Speaker 1: the producer is a dear friend of mine. She was like, dude,
Speaker 1: we'll put you on a private if we have to.
Speaker 1: And come to find out, we got screwed. It was
Speaker 1: over a weekend where we had these locations. It was
Speaker 1: the only look and it was a military base. It
Speaker 1: was very hard to get. It wasn't just like you know,
Speaker 1: a street corner and I missed it and it killed me,
Speaker 1: like it killed me, like it just yep, you know,
Speaker 1: And I got to see a tape. There was a
Speaker 1: video of it, and Karen Snack, you know, she she
Speaker 1: went all three performances. So I was like, just the
Speaker 1: first night, I was like, just enjoy the first night.
Speaker 1: The second night, sneak me some VIDs. Yeah, right, give
Speaker 1: me some good quality because I know what I know.
Speaker 1: The other one's gonna be the big wide performance. But
Speaker 1: I got to see it. I get to feel and
Speaker 1: my wife's videos were actually fantastic, and so I did
Speaker 1: feel like I was and I talked to her after
Speaker 1: every performance and whatnot. But it's one of the things
Speaker 1: that sucks about what we do for a living. It's
Speaker 1: it's very there's no you know, there's no weekends off
Speaker 1: always you know, I.
Speaker 2: Do know, and it's Yeah, I was talking to my
Speaker 2: son about this. He's ten, and listen, I've been lucky.
Speaker 2: I've been around a lot. I you know, I do
Speaker 2: a lot of work from home, and but you know,
Speaker 2: every four years, mom's work goes into hyperdrive, right, And
Speaker 2: it's so crazy because last year, last year, I spent
Speaker 2: six months in Philadelphia covering the election in a swing state,
Speaker 2: and so I was like back and forth. Wow, you know,
Speaker 2: a week in Philly weekends home, and I remember toward
Speaker 2: the end of the year, someone was asking him. I
Speaker 2: was there and someone was like, so, you know, how
Speaker 2: what kind of vacations did you go on this year?
Speaker 2: And he goes, not many, because you know, it's an
Speaker 2: election year, and that's just the how it goes. I'm like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, I cannot believe this is like just
Speaker 2: his life now. And then he was like, but next year,
Speaker 2: next year, twenty twenty five won't be as bad.
Speaker 3: You know, we'll have a lot more vacation time.
Speaker 2: And now I just got this new show covering the
Speaker 2: New York City mayoral election, so it is an election
Speaker 2: year again for me. And he's like, Mom, you don't
Speaker 2: need this many jobs, and.
Speaker 3: It's so hard, but you know what this is like.
Speaker 2: And I try to tell him, Hey, you don't know
Speaker 2: my finances. B you know, mom likes working and mom
Speaker 2: doesn't like being away from you. That's not the part
Speaker 2: I like at all. But I love my work and
Speaker 2: I want him to know.
Speaker 3: For you need it, for you, Yeah.
Speaker 2: It makes me a better mom, yeah, and a better person.
Speaker 2: It's good for my mental health to work. But also
Speaker 2: I want you to I want you to know that
Speaker 2: I love what I do, so that you go and
Speaker 2: chase something that you love and don't just feel like,
Speaker 2: oh I just need the paycheck.
Speaker 3: I want them to know and see.
Speaker 2: That that's like the only silver lining of how much
Speaker 2: it sucks when I have to be away.
Speaker 1: Yep, my kids know that. I can't say it enough.
Speaker 1: If you love what you do, you'll never work a
Speaker 1: day in your life. Once I started making a living,
Speaker 1: I've never once said I have to go to work tomorrow.
Speaker 1: I get to work tomorrow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I get.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I fucking love what I do. Yeah, And when
Speaker 1: I don't do it for a while, I get it's
Speaker 1: not good for me. It's not good for my head,
Speaker 1: it's not good for my well being. Like I can,
Speaker 1: I can work out, and I can do all this
Speaker 1: stuff for the family. But I realized that I need
Speaker 1: it to fulfill me as a person in some way,
Speaker 1: you know, it makes me me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So s they'll understand that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they will when they find a thing
Speaker 1: in life, you know, and they're like, oh, exactly right,
Speaker 1: I get it. I get it.
Speaker 3: You mentioned lionis is that going to get a first season? Okay,
Speaker 3: maybe it looks.
Speaker 1: It looks it looks very promising right now. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and I I couldn't be any happier about.
Speaker 3: That, Like that's my husband loves that show. My husband
Speaker 3: watches that show.
Speaker 1: So Karen and I love it. We love watching it together.
Speaker 1: Like it's I tell people, I'm like, it's not because
Speaker 1: a minute, man, like, watch this show.
Speaker 3: It's it's really good.
Speaker 1: Taylor Sheridan knows how to create drama, man, Like apparently, yeah,
Speaker 1: I wanted dude, man, he wrote them all like that's crazy, crazy, crazy,
Speaker 1: He's so good and it's and and get to get
Speaker 1: to work with those women on a daily basis. And
Speaker 1: Morgan Freeman, I mean, are you shitting me? It's that
Speaker 1: first time that I sat in that conference room, you know,
Speaker 1: and Jenniferly and Bruce McGill and I sat down at
Speaker 1: that table and I was just like, holy Ship, Academy,
Speaker 1: warg Academy, Ward, Academy, word, God knows Accounts, Awards and
Speaker 1: that nominations in that room and I was just like
Speaker 1: and then you just you know, some of those scenes
Speaker 1: are nine pages long, so it's like little one one
Speaker 1: act plays because they'll run them straight through and we'll
Speaker 1: just do them over and over and it's just like
Speaker 1: to watch the Volley and the you know, it's just
Speaker 1: that that's that's a high. Being an aver room hard.
Speaker 1: It's hard as ship to get all that to memory,
Speaker 1: especially for me to memorize all that to make it
Speaker 1: so that I can make it make sense too, because
Speaker 1: it's a lot of it is very complicated, and with
Speaker 1: all the political stuff I've done a lot of it's
Speaker 1: a foreign language to a certain extent.
Speaker 3: So well, at least at least it's English.
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, yep, Yeah, that show.
Speaker 3: I just I love it.
Speaker 1: I love love love it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, I hope it gets another another season. Okay, it's
Speaker 2: time for a lightning round.
Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 2: Who's the real person you'd like to play in a
Speaker 2: film or television series? Burt Reynolds, Ah, listen with that
Speaker 2: stash Man, you are halfway there? Why can I ask why?
Speaker 1: I don't know? I mean Georgia connection, and you know,
Speaker 1: I just I always thought, uh, before I wanted to
Speaker 1: be an actor, there was something about Burt Brynholds and
Speaker 1: all those movies and from Smoking the Bandit the Cannonball
Speaker 1: Run to Hooper. You know, I would love to do
Speaker 1: Hooper play that character or I don't if you remember,
Speaker 1: he was a stunt man. He was hooked on pain
Speaker 1: pills and just got to be really really cool to
Speaker 1: redo that lightly less McColl uh huh uh huh yeah,
Speaker 1: but yeah, yeah, and an aging stun man. I'm kind
Speaker 1: of aging. I'm kind of prime. Bert was much younger
Speaker 1: when he played it, But I think it can work
Speaker 1: right now for me.
Speaker 3: It's great.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just always there's something about the dude.
Speaker 1: I just thought he was so cool. You see. It's
Speaker 1: such a wicked sense of humor too.
Speaker 3: Bert.
Speaker 1: Did you watch all that fun stuff that he and
Speaker 1: Johnny Carson did back in the day, right, And that
Speaker 1: guy was just fun. Man, he was just fun.
Speaker 2: Okay, what's the best movie about politics?
Speaker 1: Uh? What do you call it? With Robert Ridford and
Speaker 1: presents Man? Yeah, that's my favorite.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, classic.
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, just so.
Speaker 2: That's most people's like top of the Cannon. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: did you ever see the Contender?
Speaker 1: Was that Russell Krusch?
Speaker 2: No, that's the insider. The contender is Jeff Bridges plays
Speaker 2: the president. Joan Allen is vying to be the vice president,
Speaker 2: Christian Slater, Gary Oldman, Oh my.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. You've got to see You've got
Speaker 1: to see myself right now?
Speaker 3: So good? What's the best baseball movie?
Speaker 1: All square? Now, I'm kidding, I get that one did exactly.
Speaker 1: It's a movie I did.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 3: I looked that movie up.
Speaker 1: It actually is a really fun little indie that we
Speaker 1: did for a you know, a million bucks. A car
Speaker 1: screw to make it with me and uh and jumped
Speaker 1: on board. We made not even a million bucks like
Speaker 1: seven and fifty. But it's actually a fun movie. It
Speaker 1: is not my favorite. It's a tough one because you
Speaker 1: got you know, good ones. I love Bad News Bears,
Speaker 1: but I think Major League is also wow. And then
Speaker 1: the female one, uh oh, A league of their own,
Speaker 1: a league of their own. But you know what, I
Speaker 1: just watched Funny just Is and I really loved it.
Speaker 1: And it's one that not many people or maybe people
Speaker 1: know about. But it's I think I've seen every baseball more.
Speaker 1: I thought I did a little big league. Have you
Speaker 1: seen that one?
Speaker 3: A little big league?
Speaker 1: No, little big league? It was really good. It's this kid.
Speaker 1: The grandfather gives him the baseball team. Okay, he's got
Speaker 1: a bright baseball mind, and he dies the grandfather. They
Speaker 1: have a relationship in the movie. Grandfather dies in his will.
Speaker 1: The kids like, what, I have a baseball team.
Speaker 3: I'll have to check that out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really fun one yourself.
Speaker 2: Watch with my son. Oh great for yours. I think
Speaker 2: it's Bullderham. Oh yeah, yeah, it's so good, just like
Speaker 2: both of their like all three of them, their monologues like, yeah,
Speaker 2: Kevin's Tim Susan's like they're all so good.
Speaker 1: And then and and you have all that talent in
Speaker 1: that movie too, I mean all the talent those are
Speaker 1: the three actors. Like that's insane.
Speaker 2: It's insane, and like the Roman, it captures the romance
Speaker 2: of baseball.
Speaker 3: So so yeah, that's a good one. What was what
Speaker 3: was your worst vacation?
Speaker 1: They're vacations, and I don't think I've had one. Actually
Speaker 1: there was one where where but but but again, and
Speaker 1: we were with the family, so it wasn't that bad
Speaker 1: my family. Yeah, but my wife had to go down
Speaker 1: a few days early because I was working. I met
Speaker 1: them there, but we went down to Florida. Forget the
Speaker 1: name of this place, but it's everyone gets like their
Speaker 1: own massive home and it could sleep twenty something people.
Speaker 1: One of those things had its own pool and everything.
Speaker 1: It rained, oh for seven straight days. And I'm not
Speaker 1: saying just like, oh it rain. It Florida rained, yep
Speaker 1: from start to fucking finish every single day we were there,
Speaker 1: and we're just like, so it was great. We were
Speaker 1: with our family, you know, so it wasn't terrible, but
Speaker 1: it was like are you kidding right? Like every day
Speaker 1: we'd be like, are.
Speaker 3: You sitting still going?
Speaker 1: Yeah, my son was a baby, my son was like
Speaker 1: and my poor wife had to go down without me.
Speaker 1: Like it was just so that was pretty rough. Recently, though,
Speaker 1: I will say we went to and the vacation itself
Speaker 1: was amazing, but what happened while we were away suck.
Speaker 1: So we went down to Puerto Rico. We're renovating this home.
Speaker 1: We were tapped out financially, so I was like, we're
Speaker 1: gonna use points well, fly out Jet Blue to Puerto Rico.
Speaker 1: We're in an air We got an airbnb. It was
Speaker 1: like it was like three quarters a mile from the
Speaker 1: beach and we just rented a jeep for literally a
Speaker 1: couple hundred bucks for five days. It was an amazing
Speaker 1: vacation and marine come while we were there. We got
Speaker 1: this dog recently, and she has anxiety and she can't
Speaker 1: be in the house for more than like three and
Speaker 1: a half four hours without doing bad shit to the house.
Speaker 1: So we hired a guy. We said, one of those
Speaker 1: doggy apps. Whatever. We said, here, here's the deal. You
Speaker 1: can live in our house. It's nice. You do whatever
Speaker 1: you want. This is your home for a week. Okay,
Speaker 1: one thing you can't do is leave that dog for
Speaker 1: more than three and a half hours. And the sun
Speaker 1: of a bitch. We're having dinner one night and my wife,
Speaker 1: we've just finished dinner and she picked up her phone.
Speaker 1: It was just like put it and she was like,
Speaker 1: oh god, oh god, oh god. And he had sent
Speaker 1: pictures of what Jovi, our dog had done to the
Speaker 1: windows in the rental house we were in. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: And she had eaten the windows and the doors. And
Speaker 1: he had left her for seven and a half that's
Speaker 1: what he said. So I'm sure it was more than that.
Speaker 1: But his girlfriend went to the hospital or some shit,
Speaker 1: and oh my god, all you do is call, bro,
Speaker 1: All you do is call And we had to call
Speaker 1: a neighbor and someone would have gone yeah, no. So
Speaker 1: if we were coming home and and he knew we
Speaker 1: were flying home and we're in the car, and she
Speaker 1: text him and said, hey, we're so, we're in we're
Speaker 1: at the airport, we're heading home. You can And he
Speaker 1: was like, do you want me to be here when
Speaker 1: you get home? And and she just Karen turned me
Speaker 1: and goes. He just asked if he should be there
Speaker 1: when we get there. I was like, I beg him
Speaker 1: not to be there when I get there. I mean,
Speaker 1: that would be a very bad idea for him. So
Speaker 1: he was gone. The windows were there, and it sucked.
Speaker 1: And this cheap, inexpensive vacation that we took cost twice
Speaker 1: as much to fix all the windows.
Speaker 3: So that hurts. Yeah, so that was it hurts.
Speaker 1: It was a great vacation, yeah, but at a cost,
Speaker 1: at a cost. Oh may you had a bad one?
Speaker 2: Well, I've had one of those Florida ones. And with kids,
Speaker 2: it really sucks because it was just like you said,
Speaker 2: like raining so much you couldn't actually leave, Like you
Speaker 2: couldn't you didn't even want to walk to your car.
Speaker 3: It was raining so hard. So like rightly, so like
Speaker 3: forget the beach of the pool? Can I even can
Speaker 3: I go like to a movie? Inside?
Speaker 2: Not really I mean, so you're just cabin fever stuck
Speaker 2: in a We were in.
Speaker 3: A condo at the.
Speaker 2: Time, you know, Yeah, I've been on that, yeah, and
Speaker 2: then the other the other, like bad vacation. I was
Speaker 2: in my twenties and we went to Rome with some
Speaker 2: friends and my luggage went to Osaka. So I land
Speaker 2: and it's a five day vacation. For five days, I
Speaker 2: have nothing. It comes on the fifth day, I'm running
Speaker 2: around Rome. I have no money at this time, so
Speaker 2: I'm running around Rome looking at like street street vendors
Speaker 2: to buy clothes and toilet trees and trying to make something.
Speaker 3: That wasn't great.
Speaker 2: The vacation was fun minus that part. Okay, this is
Speaker 2: a quiz. The Braves have won four World Series, but
Speaker 2: only two as the Atlanta Braves. What were the first two?
Speaker 1: Milwaukee and in Boston.
Speaker 3: You're correct, You're correct. I knew you knew that one
Speaker 3: of each.
Speaker 1: I wasn't positive it was one of.
Speaker 3: Each, but it was one of each.
Speaker 2: It was Boston Braves nineteen fourteen and Milwaukee Braves in
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty seven.
Speaker 3: What is your guilty pleasure?
Speaker 1: It was nic Grette, but I quit it. I'm very,
Speaker 1: very happy about that many many years of doing that shit,
Speaker 1: and I got a hypnotist and I and I did
Speaker 1: it and I quit it.
Speaker 3: The hypnotis worked.
Speaker 1: It worked. He was a quick smoking hypnotist. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: it freaking worked. No, And I was like, no way.
Speaker 1: So I go I go for my physical and my
Speaker 1: doctor calls me and she was like, hey, so you're
Speaker 1: pre diabetic. And I was like what, and she's like,
Speaker 1: I know, it doesn't make any sense. Your numbers came
Speaker 1: back as pre diabetic. You're I know how much you work,
Speaker 1: I know how you work out. I know what you eat,
Speaker 1: like I eat right, I don't really drink hardly ever.
Speaker 1: And so I was like, I know, I don't get it.
Speaker 1: And she's like, I don't get it either. I want
Speaker 1: to test you again. I was like okay. I tested
Speaker 1: again a month later and she was like, you're pre diabetic.
Speaker 1: So Karen, my wife, who's like she helps women through
Speaker 1: menopause and personal trainer and yoga instructor. She's just a
Speaker 1: warrior and a health nut, and she was like, you
Speaker 1: texted me and she's like, you fucking idiot. It's a nicorette.
Speaker 1: So yes, it has because it has that. It's all
Speaker 1: sugar free, so it.
Speaker 3: Has that fake sugar stuff, fake sugar stuff.
Speaker 1: Which triggers your body and the thing. And I was
Speaker 1: consuming so much of it. Anyone who takes niggarette knows
Speaker 1: that it's worse, not worse for you. You're smoking, certainly,
Speaker 1: but you consume so much of it. Like I never
Speaker 1: didn't have a piece of my mouth ever. Ever, there
Speaker 1: was always a piece of my mouth, whether there's a
Speaker 1: mint or a gum or whatever. And it's so it
Speaker 1: was definitely messing with my So so a friend was like,
Speaker 1: gay man should try the shypnotist. And I did it
Speaker 1: and it worked.
Speaker 3: That's amazing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, incredible.
Speaker 2: Okay, this is the last question. It's the most important
Speaker 2: question to me. Okay, when is it iced coffee season?
Speaker 1: Always I think you can do it. Whenever I think
Speaker 1: you can do it whenever.
Speaker 3: Now you can do it whenever I do.
Speaker 1: I think it's you know, there's I don't do it
Speaker 1: in the winter, but why not? Like but for me,
Speaker 1: I would say I would go and and for me
Speaker 1: it's just like in every now and then, after I've
Speaker 1: had my morning coffee, my morning coffee will always be hot, hot,
Speaker 1: no matter what. Yep, An afternoon to light. I would
Speaker 1: do it anywhere from say May to late August early September.
Speaker 1: What about you? You obviously it's year round.
Speaker 2: The answer is year round, and I only I only
Speaker 2: have it iced in the morning. If I'm camping, I
Speaker 2: might have it hot, but like, oh yeah morning, dead
Speaker 2: of winter, it's iced because I want it like in
Speaker 2: my veins.
Speaker 3: I want to drink it quickly. I want it immediately.
Speaker 1: See, it's so interesting to me. The immediacy comes from
Speaker 1: that hot and it has to be hot.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I get if I get.
Speaker 1: Half a cup and it's and I'm getting warm chips
Speaker 1: tossed the cup. Yeah, can't do it. Can't do it.
Speaker 3: But at least you allow me to have it year round.
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 1: Of course you can, because you know you can do
Speaker 1: whatever you want.
Speaker 3: I knew, I like I knew.
Speaker 2: I liked to Michael Kelly, this was so delightful and
Speaker 2: wonderful and I'm so glad it happened.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough. It's it's an honor spend
Speaker 1: an hour with you, and I'm grateful, so thank.
Speaker 3: You, Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2: Coming up next week on off the Cup, I talked
Speaker 2: to Broadway star of In the Heights, The Lion King,
Speaker 2: Hell's Kitchen, and of course Hamilton Christopher Jackson.
Speaker 1: Glynn and I are on stage during the performance of
Speaker 1: In the Heights and he says to me, I'm my
Speaker 1: next thing. I think.
Speaker 3: I was like, cool, what is it?
Speaker 2: He's like, It's a hip hop concept album about the
Speaker 2: Treasury Secretary. Time to go on out and then we
Speaker 2: go out into the big number of ninety six thousand, right,
Speaker 2: so what? Off the Cup is a production of iHeart
Speaker 2: Podcasts as part of the Reason Choice Network.
Speaker 3: If you want more, check out the other.
Speaker 2: Reason Choice podcasts Spolitics with Jamel Hill and Native Land pod.
Speaker 2: For Off the Cup, I am your host Se Cup.
Speaker 2: Editing and sound design by Derek Clements. Our executive producers
Speaker 2: are me Se Cup, Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman.
Speaker 3: Rate and review wherever you
Speaker 2: Get your podcasts, follow or subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday.