1 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:08,479 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie, and you're listening to stuff moll 2 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: Never told you. Recently, I was visiting family for the holidays, 3 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: and this is about the only time of year I 4 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: watched television like on TV, like satellite or cable whatever 5 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: it is, and we were flipping through the channels I 6 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: and I noticed a plethora of options in the holiday 7 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,319 Speaker 1: romantic comedy genre, which I was kind of baffled by, 8 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: and then later I confirmed the sheer number of them 9 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:52,200 Speaker 1: when I was searching through Amazon Primes holiday movie selection. Um. 10 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: And I've admitted on this show before I do not 11 00:00:55,360 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: have much knowledge of romantic comedies holiday or otherwise. So 12 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: so for any of those out there like me, or 13 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: maybe you do love rom coms and just want to 14 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: hear so much more about them, here is a crash 15 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:15,759 Speaker 1: course on the rom com enjoyed. Welcome to Stuff Mom 16 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:23,919 Speaker 1: Never Told You from how stupp Works dot com. Hello, 17 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline, 18 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: and this episode on romantic comedies is kicking off our 19 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: summer series all about rom coms. I know you guys 20 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: were so excited about the suggestions, so I'm hoping you're 21 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: all listening yes, because we've got a lot to talk 22 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: about this intro episode. It's gonna cover a lot of ground. 23 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: It's gonna cover the history and evolution of romantic comedies, 24 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: where they came from the role that censorship played Shakespeare. 25 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: We've got it all. Are we gonna have a meat 26 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,639 Speaker 1: cute somehow? Yeah? Well every day is a meat cute. 27 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: Every day stuff mom never told you. Um, yeah, we 28 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: have a lot of ground to cover. And I got 29 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: to say, Caroline, this was some of the most fun 30 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 1: stuff I've never told you research total ever because I 31 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: got to just watch some rom coms that and seen 32 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: a ever or be not a long time. Yeah, so 33 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: I watched for the first time ever to prepare for this. Um, 34 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:24,519 Speaker 1: His Girl Friday fabulous, starring the dashing Carrie Grant and 35 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: one of my faves, Rosalind Russell. Yes, but I fell 36 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: asleep because my brain was too tuckered out with all 37 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: of that fast paced, quick witted, sparkling dialogue. Oh yeah, 38 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: the old screwball comedy back and Forth. It is a 39 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: super screwball comedy and I loved it, and like you 40 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,080 Speaker 1: spend the whole time being like I love that they're 41 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: at odds because that is such a rom com troupe 42 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: the Man and the Woman at Odds UM and I 43 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: loved it my favorite. Some of my favorites, though, are 44 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: I would have to say, like high Fidelity. I love 45 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 1: Sliding Doors with Gwyneth Paltrow. UM and if if you're 46 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: looking at like shows not just movies, I think you're 47 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: the worst. Is a great example of like a new 48 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: age romantic comedy because it is like two people being 49 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: terrible but they are hilarious and in love. UM. I 50 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: watched for this episode Bringing Up Baby last night, UM, 51 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: which is another one of my faves for listeners who 52 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 1: don't know UM. I watched a lot of old movies 53 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: as a kid because it was mostly the only thing 54 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: I was allowed to watch. UM. And I had so 55 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: little appreciation for Katherine Hepburn when I was growing up. 56 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: I was all about Audrey Hepburn. I was like Catherine 57 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: Hepburn or whatever. But oh my gosh, she is fantastic 58 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: and Bringing Up Baby is one of her earliest films. 59 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: And she plays this zany heiress whom Carrie Grant, who's 60 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: playing a zoologist in this episode, a zany zoologist. He's 61 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: zane at all. He's just like trying to get her 62 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: out of his life. But Katherine Hepburn's character was like, no, 63 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: I'm gonna marry you. And I'm gonna marry you. I 64 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 1: knew what when I first saw you. So she just 65 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: like bamboozles him into essentially having to, um stay with 66 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 1: her the whole time. And I don't want to spoil it. Um, 67 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: So that was fantastic to watch. I also went back 68 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: and watched Stuff Mom Never Told You. Fans is number 69 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 1: one favorite rom com based on the very unscientific Facebook 70 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: survey that we took a while back. Now, um, just 71 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: asking folks what their favorite rom com was, and the 72 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 1: one that came up the most in a close, very 73 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: close to love actually, which was number two, was You've 74 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: Got Mail. That I think it's so funny. Yeah, especially 75 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 1: going back and watching You've Got Mail in Well, that's 76 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,359 Speaker 1: dude roommates favorite rom com. Oh wow, why does he 77 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: love it so much? You've Got Me? I don't know, 78 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 1: but he like unabashedly. I mean he jokes about it, 79 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 1: but like he loves that movie. Well, I gotta say 80 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: Tom Hanks is very charming in it. But you know, 81 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: when I watched that movie when it came out years 82 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 1: and years and years ago, now twenty years ago. Oh 83 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 1: my god. Um, I hated it because I was just like, 84 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: you're tricking her. You're the big bad Barnes and Noble guy. 85 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: And I mean, obviously I know that it's based on 86 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,679 Speaker 1: The Shop around the Corner, which is an older movie. Um, 87 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: but like you're the big bad bookstore guy who is 88 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: bamboozling Meg Ryan and her little local bookstore. Support your 89 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: local bookstore. There's always so much bamboozling happening in rom coms, 90 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: so much deceit. Seriously, yeah no, that is literally when 91 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: you read academic works on rom coms, of which there 92 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: are some, uh, they talk about the masquerade or the 93 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: deceit as being one of the major tropes, plot devices 94 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: what have you that drives the plot forward. Um. Also, 95 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: I got to give a quick shout out and you've 96 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: got mail to Parker Posey. Forgot she was in it. 97 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: She plays Tom Hanks's girlfriend and she's terrific because she's 98 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: just she's Parker Posey. I mean, what else do you 99 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: need to say? By the way, listeners, if you don't 100 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: already follow Parker Posey on Instagram and do it. Oh, 101 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,359 Speaker 1: I don't because it's bizarre. Really it's just her snapchat, 102 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 1: but it's really funny. Um. But yeah, I mean like 103 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 1: You've Got Mail, though, really crystallizes so many of the 104 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: common elements of more modern rom coms because Nora Fhron, 105 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: Meg Ryan, Tom Hanks and her hair and her hair. Um. Also, 106 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: I love a Greg Canere. Oh yeah, he would show up. 107 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 1: And I don't know if Sabrina. I guess Sabrina is 108 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: considered a rom com, the remake and the original. Um, 109 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 1: but yeah, it was. It was really interesting to go 110 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: back and watch that, and also in terms of the 111 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 1: deceit and masquerading that's so common in rom coms, sitting 112 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 1: there and being like, oh now Facebook, would Facebook would 113 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: take care of all that? Oh no, she can google him? No, no, 114 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: she was just Google. Yeah. I mean smartphones really just 115 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: ruin all romance movies. Yeah, whether it's like an action 116 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: movie with kidnapping or what like, yeah, ruin everything. But 117 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: those fantastical worlds where Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks and 118 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,679 Speaker 1: you've got males somehow would not figure out who each 119 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: other is. You know, you have all of these plot 120 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: devices that requires some magical thinking a lot of times 121 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: when we watch rom comms. And I was listening to 122 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast UM about rom coms in 123 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: preparation for this podcast, and one of them mentioned a 124 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: piece that Mindy Kaling wrote a while back um in 125 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: The New Yorker, and when she says, I regard romantic 126 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: comedies as a sub genre of sci fi in which 127 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 1: the world operates according to different rules than my regular 128 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: human war old for me, there's no difference between Ripley 129 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: from Alien and any Katherine Heigel character. And I had 130 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: never thought about it before, but it's so true totally. 131 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, I yes, I have long considered romantic comedy, 132 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: specifically of that like nineties flavor um to be fairy tales. Oh, 133 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: Sleepless in Seattle. Oh yeah, I mean yes, when you 134 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: go back and watch I did watch Sleepless in Seattle 135 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: like a year ago probably, and was like, are you 136 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:33,439 Speaker 1: kidding me with this? I mean, if someone going to 137 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 1: tell you, Okay, so a woman here's a boy on 138 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:41,319 Speaker 1: the radio, and she, by virtue of hearing the boy's story, 139 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: falls in love with a dad and then kind of 140 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: stalks him but works out then they fall in love. 141 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: How many rom coms are just flat out stalking. There's 142 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: a lot of god, a lot of of consented lines 143 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 1: that are yeah, you're not You're not wrong, And I 144 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: mean it interesting to watch. I think that rom com 145 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 1: evolution because we are out of the age of the 146 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: Tom Hanks, Meg Ryan, Julia Roberts kind of deal, Hugh Grant, 147 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 1: Hugh Grant, yes, thank you. He have the bumbling Grant era, 148 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 1: the whole Matthew McConaughey, Kate Hudson's stuff, and we've moved 149 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: into what I think is a really interesting era for 150 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: romantic comedy. And I was trying to come up with 151 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: some examples of modern romantic comedy, and I act accidentally 152 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: side note, kept just coming up with like self romantic comedy, 153 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,079 Speaker 1: where like the woman learned something about herself, but it's 154 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: like real quirky and funny along the way, like Francis Ha, 155 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: have you seen that movie? I have one of my 156 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: favorite movies. I think it's precious and it's like women's 157 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: relationships and with their bestie and with themselves and growing 158 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: and all this stuff. And I kept writing those down 159 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 1: in my notes, is like this is my favorite rom 160 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 1: Oh it's it's not a rom com, okay, um, But 161 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: I love. The one movie I did keep coming back 162 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: to was Obvious Child with Jenny Slate, where it's you've 163 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: got the the tropes of meat cute and in a 164 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: way and a little bit of deception and masquerading and 165 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: awkwardness and uncomfortable nous um and you know, boy gets 166 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: girl or girl gets boy uh, all framed around an 167 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: abortion and and it's a fantastic movie. And it starts 168 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: out with maybe one of my favorite jokes in the world. 169 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: If you haven't seen it, you really need to see it. 170 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 1: We can't really say it on the podcast. UM. So yes, 171 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 1: see Obvious Child asap. UM. You also noted Robbie Patel's 172 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: Meet the Patel's, which is another one I watched this weekend. Um. 173 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,199 Speaker 1: You can ps get a lot of rom com watching 174 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: done when you're making wedding crafts, so that was very helpful. 175 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 1: So get married, Yes, we'll just get engaged because after 176 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: after you get married and you have no time. I'm 177 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 1: assuming I don't know, um. And I've been wanting to 178 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: watch Meet the Hotels for a long time because I 179 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: had heard rave reviews about it, um, and also because 180 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: it's told documentary style UM. And it was really well done. 181 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: I mean it was a rom com also through a 182 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: completely different culture, obviously through an Indian culture um that 183 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 1: we do not see in Matthew McConaughey and Kate Hudson films. Right. 184 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: And also it won the top prize at the Traverse City, 185 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: Michigan Film Festival. What up Northern Michigan. Um. But speaking 186 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: of Matthew McConaughey, you know, he's faced a lot of 187 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: cocked eyebrows basically for his crappy rom com I'm gonna 188 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: say it, I'm sorry for a lot of his really 189 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: terrible rom coms that he's been in and leaving those 190 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 1: behind in favor of starring and things like True Detective 191 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: and Dallas Buyer's Club, things that have a lot of 192 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:51,439 Speaker 1: dramatic clout. And he basically, he told this interviewer, I 193 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: think it was for Variety that he's sick of this 194 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: then and now narrative in terms of his career. And 195 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: he says, because the thing behind it that people assume 196 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 1: is that rom coms aren't critical hits and that they're easy, 197 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 1: and they're not easy. It's a hard challenge, she said, 198 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 1: to make it work, to tell a story. You've seen 199 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: time and time again that you know what the ending 200 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: is going to be, and he's right. But it's like 201 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: I just by the time. I don't know if it 202 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: was my age or if it was just Matthew McConaughey 203 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: and Kate Hudson that I couldn't take anymore. But I 204 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: definitely hit a point where it's like I cannot want. 205 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 1: Maybe it's Jennifer Lopez too, A love her great actress, 206 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: cannot take her romantic comedies, but they do. They come 207 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:36,199 Speaker 1: off as so dumb and saccharin and easy to dismiss 208 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: because they're just so trophy and easy to predict, and 209 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: they're so coded. You know that if a movie has 210 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: Kate Hudson and Matthew McConaughey and you know they're going 211 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: to end up together, there's no drama. But then it 212 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: wouldn't be a romantic comedy if there were. Well, it's 213 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: a very specific genre. I gotta tell you that if 214 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: Paddle is a guy in ten days just happens to 215 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: be on a screwing in front of me on a weekend, 216 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: I will watch it. I really enjoyed. I mean like, 217 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: and that is it is super tropy. Of course, and 218 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: of course you know that there's going to be some conflict, 219 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: they'll lose each other and then they'll find each other again. 220 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:16,679 Speaker 1: But there is a comfort in the formulaic nature of 221 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: it too. Um. But all of those things that you 222 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: just noted in terms of how predictable they are and 223 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: how much they rely on gender stereotypes, and how even 224 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 1: all the rom coms that are set in New York, 225 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,439 Speaker 1: everyone lives an impossibly huge apartment and they're all in 226 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,880 Speaker 1: like publishing and marketing and newspapers and magazines. Oh yeah, 227 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: I love that Kate Hudson is like a magazine writer 228 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,719 Speaker 1: and apparently makes like well over six figures to have 229 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: the apartment and the wardrobe that she does. And because 230 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: of those kind of sci fi rules, as Mindy Kale 231 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:58,199 Speaker 1: describes them, they are easily dismissed. And in our conversation 232 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: about this, we are going to be refering to tomorrow 233 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: Jeffers McDonald's book Romantic Comedy, Boy meets Girl Meets Genre. 234 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 1: That's right, and only five romantic comedies have won the 235 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:14,199 Speaker 1: Academy Award for Best Picture. And I'm honestly surprised it's five. 236 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 1: It's that many. Um, it happened one night from nineteen 237 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: thirty four, which is basically cited as like the o 238 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: G romantic comedy that started at the screwball genre, which 239 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: of course we'll talk about more and more in depth later. Uh, 240 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: you can't take it with you. Nineteen sixties The Apartment, 241 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: seventy seven's Annie Hall and Shakespeare in Love, which I love. 242 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: I still never seen Shakespeare and looks really good. It 243 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: is really good and and obviously so is Annie Hall. 244 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 1: And unfortunately I haven't seen the other three. The Apartment 245 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 1: is fantastic. Yeah, it'll um, it'll throw you for a 246 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: loop in a good way. Um. And of course they 247 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 1: all follow the same basic formula, the same basic heteronormative 248 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: formula of boy meets girl, boy loses girl, and boy 249 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: does everything that he can or vice versa to regain 250 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: the girl. Um. Things that tend to happen include weddings 251 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 1: derailed at the last minute. I mean, really, if you 252 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: count up all the west wasted wedding money, just millions 253 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: of dollars. Didn't occur to me until I was an adult. 254 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: But chief, um, you also have the masquerade, as you mentioned, 255 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: and um, the embarrassing gesture, which is essentially like submitting 256 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: to humiliation in order to prove your love, like I'm 257 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: putting everything out there for you, Like what a fool 258 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: I am. I'm standing in front of your house with 259 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: a boom box on my shoulder, right, And again that 260 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: goes back to the sci fi nature of so many 261 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 1: rom coms, because if you're standing up, if I've rejected 262 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: you and you're standing outside of my house with a 263 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: boombox on calling nine one one any who. And of course, 264 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: another element of the formula is the meat cute, which 265 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 1: is basically the two characters meet in a way that 266 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: four casts their union. And Billy Wilder, the twentieth century 267 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: screenwriter director uh is one of the foremost proponents of 268 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: the meat cute. Yeah. He told um an interviewer at 269 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: the Paris Review, that at the time he and other 270 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: screenwriters would just keep notebooks of meat cutes. Anytime a 271 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: meat cute idea would come to mind, they'd be like, oh, 272 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: that's another one, because you had to have a meat cute. Well, yeah, 273 00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: And in case you're like, I'm still not clear on 274 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: what a meat cute is, here's an example from a 275 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: Wilder script, Bluebeard's Eighth Wife, features the couple first crossing 276 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: paths in a department store where the guy wants to 277 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: buy just the top of the pajamas and the woman 278 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: wants to buy just the bottom. I mean, how often 279 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: does that happen to you? Care? Oh my god, all 280 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: the time when I'm shopping in the men's section of 281 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: the department store for pajamas for pajamas. Um. And you 282 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: also see very familiar conflicts that tend to arise. Uh. 283 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: You have the whole parent child conflict, which is um 284 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 1: super common, whether it's parents you know, disapproving of relationship 285 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,400 Speaker 1: or parents just generally being disappointed in their children, are 286 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: being overly um ambitious in terms of what they want 287 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: for their kids. And then you have conflicts with courting 288 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: men and women that struggle to find common ground and 289 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,640 Speaker 1: the opposition of the gender cultures. I mean, I think, uh, 290 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,239 Speaker 1: how to lose a guy? Inton days plays that up 291 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: so much, or it's like you bring over tampons to 292 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,640 Speaker 1: a man's bathroom and he'll throw you out mid intercourse. 293 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: But one thing that McDonald notes about this whole gender 294 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: based conflict thing that is so trophy in rom coms 295 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 1: is that the dual protagonist perspective actually does offer really 296 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: great characters on the men's side and the women's side. 297 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: So it's obviously you have romantic comedies that are more 298 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,639 Speaker 1: from the woman's perspective or more from the man's. But 299 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,199 Speaker 1: when you have a Sleepless in Seattle case where it 300 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: is like Tom Hanks is the main character and so 301 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 1: is Meg Ryan, it gives you that chance to see 302 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: how men and women can both be strong and weak, 303 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: can be trophy masculine and trophy feminine, but can also 304 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: go against those gender norms. And she points out great 305 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 1: traditional rom com actors like Carrie Grant, James Stewart and 306 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 1: Hugh Grant, who are allowed to be and expected to 307 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 1: be handsome and strong and elegant and witty, but they 308 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 1: also want intimacy and they're ready to laugh at themselves. 309 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,439 Speaker 1: And then of course you've got the classic women like 310 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,360 Speaker 1: Catherine Hepburn, Meg Ryan and Julia Roberts, who are obviously 311 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,679 Speaker 1: beautiful and playful, but they can also be aggressive and 312 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 1: assertive and sassy and independent. And it goes to the 313 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 1: Yen and the yang, the uh renee Zellwigger, Tom Cruise, 314 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: you complete me. And that's a byproduct of having these 315 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: two great characters. Even if they do exhibit a lot 316 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: of trophy, gross stuff that we're sick of. It allows 317 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: for really well rounded characters that essentially serve to complete 318 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: each other well, and it also shows how you know, 319 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 1: it portrays these characters as both fallible when it comes 320 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 1: to love and a lot of times they are tripped 321 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 1: up by those very gender stereotypes, and a lot of 322 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: times rom coms are propping up right. But again, like, 323 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:27,200 Speaker 1: if you maintain the gender conflict throughout the whole movie, 324 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: they might never get together. So you've got to like 325 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:34,959 Speaker 1: have a way for them to overlap their sensibilities so 326 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: that they can have that happy ending. And of course, 327 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:43,680 Speaker 1: the central ideology, the central idea driving rom comms is 328 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:48,159 Speaker 1: the primary importance of the couple, which, of course traditionally 329 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,959 Speaker 1: has been white and has been heterosexual, although we did 330 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: start to see like in the nineties, more attempts to 331 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: include more LGBT storylines, more people of color falling in 332 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 1: love because who new it's not just white, straight people 333 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 1: falling in love in real life. Um, But regardless of 334 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: who is falling in love in these movies, monogamy rules 335 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 1: the day uh settled in a relationship. Sex is at 336 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: the heart of the rom com because monogamy and you know, 337 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 1: one partner only relationships stand in for basically social stability. Um. 338 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: But it is interesting several of the writers that we 339 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: read to prepare for this episode point out that romance, 340 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:35,919 Speaker 1: grand romance, and actual relationship stability kind of have different goals. 341 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 1: So you know, these characters are are pursuing and infecting 342 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: our minds with the drive for constant, eternal butterflies in 343 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: stomach romance, but they're also going for marriage and babies eventually, 344 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,840 Speaker 1: like that's also the goal. And you know, your traditional 345 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: long term relationship is not always going to be butterflies 346 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: in the stocks. Some sometimes you're gonna find about the 347 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 1: dishwasher or the toilet seat. Hence, we don't want to 348 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: see people mid relationship in rom coms. We want to 349 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: see single people. We want to see the conflict in 350 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: the sexual tension and the anxiety that all leads up 351 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: to the final climax. That's why I love the movie 352 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: to Day is It Two Days in Paris um where 353 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,800 Speaker 1: they are mid relationship and they go to Paris to 354 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: see her parents and massive conflict ensues, and that's so 355 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: fascinating to me. I'm so over rom com troops. But 356 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: it doesn't mean we're done talking about it, because of 357 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:42,360 Speaker 1: course we've been talking about gender, but we've been talking 358 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: about gender within the film itself. But the fact that 359 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: rom coms are so strongly associated with female audiences is 360 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 1: a huge reason that they face a lot of criticism. 361 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,159 Speaker 1: I mean, these movies are marketed to women, and they 362 00:21:55,200 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: are assumed therefore too largely appeal to women. And so 363 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: it's for these reasons that a lot of scholars and 364 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: critics alike consciously or unconsciously disparage them. It's like the 365 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,479 Speaker 1: whole conversation we had a couple of summers ago about 366 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: Chicklet and how marginalized it as simply because it's marketed 367 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 1: to women well, and female fandom at large, you know, 368 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 1: like teeny bopper type of stuff girls and women being 369 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: dismissed for what they like in pop culture. Um. But 370 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: it's interesting when you think about these plots of these movies. 371 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: It's not like it's only the woman who gets the happy, warm, 372 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 1: fuzzy fields. The man's getting it too. And it's this 373 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 1: myth of perfect love that appeals to everyone, not just men, 374 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 1: not just women, not just straight people. And these narratives 375 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: that we see so often in rom coms demonstrate that 376 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: both the woman and the man have to change and 377 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 1: adapt to come together basically. And it's interesting that it's again, 378 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 1: it's not just the woman in the audience who's like, hey, 379 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,919 Speaker 1: you should change to fine love. The man watching the 380 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 1: rom com is also being presented with these images, whether 381 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: it's Carrie Grant or Hugh Grant or whoever, these you know, 382 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 1: handsome guys and great apartments who are living these great lives, 383 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,719 Speaker 1: drinking martinis and whatever, and it's like, here, here's an 384 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: image for you to try to aspire to as well. 385 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: So you see, as rom coms evolve from their origins, 386 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: and then especially once you hit the fifties and sixties 387 00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: of like kind of this con slick consumer culture getting 388 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 1: wrapped up in them as well. Well, if we talk 389 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 1: about the origins of rom coms as a genre, we 390 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 1: have to go back before film was invented, before Oscar 391 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: Wilde and Jane austen Um to Shakespeare, because really a 392 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: lot of the rom com formulas that we still see 393 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:57,360 Speaker 1: today on screen came straight from the Bard. Well yeah, 394 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 1: I mean, you see, you know, love trying angles in 395 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 1: Midsummer Night's Stream or Twelfth Night, and in Taming of 396 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: the Shrew you see the crude sister who ends up tame. 397 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: It's also what Tim thinks I Hate about You is 398 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: based on btw um you see and much ado about 399 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,719 Speaker 1: nothing couples ripped apart by scandal and getting back together, 400 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:21,439 Speaker 1: and I mean that they're total direct ancestors to a 401 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: movie like How to Lose a Guy in Ten Days, 402 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: which is like the entire plot is based on deception 403 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 1: and getting ripped apart and then getting thrown back together, 404 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: that dramatic irony that Shakespeare was so expert at well, 405 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 1: and also playing around a lot with status and someone 406 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:45,120 Speaker 1: ending up with maybe an unexpected person, but the right person. 407 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 1: So um. One example that Jesse catle Over at Hyperbole 408 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: mentioned was how that happens in both Midsummer Night's Dream 409 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: and also Legally Blonde. Yeah, and once we get into Hollywood, 410 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,920 Speaker 1: even in the silent era out we have rom coms, 411 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 1: which are kind of hard to imagine silent rom coms, 412 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 1: but old Cecil be to Mill was making them. You know, 413 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,040 Speaker 1: who hasn't seen the classic nineteen eighteen Old Wives for 414 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: New you know, or nineteen nineteens Don't Change Your Husband. 415 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: I love the titles of these films because then in 416 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 1: nineteen I'm assuming this is a sequel to Don't Change 417 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: your Husband. Demil put out why Change your Wife? They 418 00:25:28,359 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: sound like chapters in a book. Yeah. I think with 419 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: cecil be to Mill just like working out some marital 420 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 1: issues through through the camera. I don't know. Yeah, these 421 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: are basically essentially moralistic early rom com type films. You 422 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: also have in nine Sherlock Junr and Girls Shy that 423 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 1: follow the Shakespearean meat have conflict and then have happy 424 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 1: reunion plot device. But as you can imagine, the whole 425 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: silent thing kind of puts the damper on the rom 426 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 1: com stuff because you're like watching and you're here on 427 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,159 Speaker 1: all the piano or the organ music, and you're like, 428 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,640 Speaker 1: oh my god, having witty dialogue and you've gotta wait, wait, wait, 429 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: and you get the little car that's like and get 430 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,879 Speaker 1: out of here, you brute. And then it goes on. 431 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: You're seeing more dialogue and she's being you know, roped 432 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: to a set of train tracks and you're like, what's 433 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 1: going on and it's like, oh, actually, I love you, 434 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: thanks for saving me. It kind of like screws with 435 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: the pacing. I would really like Mystery Signs three thousand 436 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: with you, but just with silent films. I would also 437 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: like that if anyone wants to sign up and start 438 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 1: a campaign, that would be great. Um. But it was 439 00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: really this, this is a twist. Here's a plot twist. Listeners. 440 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: Censorship was really what propelled screwball comedies classic screwball comedies, 441 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 1: and was something that David Denby wrote about in The 442 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: New Yorker because of course sensors always existed because people were, 443 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 1: you know, worried about the effects of film on young people. 444 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: So the moral standards has been around since nineteen two, 445 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: when the Motion Pictures Producers and Distributors Association, which would 446 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,880 Speaker 1: later become m p a A recruited oh Will Hayes 447 00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:28,760 Speaker 1: as president to administer morals, which was at first basically 448 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,320 Speaker 1: just a verbal agreement with producers like hey, you know, 449 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 1: don't do anything that will corrupt the minds of the youth. Um. 450 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 1: But of course with Hayes came to Hayes code. Yeah. 451 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 1: So at first censorship was pretty inconsistent. Things would be 452 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 1: banned in some cities and not others. But interestingly, of 453 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: course bands on female sexuality. We're pretty consistent. You had 454 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: Theodo Bearra's Vamp movies band. Anything about adultery was like 455 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: super taboo. Even Margaret Sanger's film Birth Control, which I 456 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: somehow didn't know existed, even though we talked about her 457 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,400 Speaker 1: a lot in our episodes on abortion, that was banned. 458 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: And in the early thirties, post sound, you get a 459 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: lot of newspaper comedies, gangster flix, musical's, horror, melodrama, things 460 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 1: that could really finally take advantage of sound. But at 461 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,199 Speaker 1: this time you also see a lot of movies despite 462 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,400 Speaker 1: the fact that we're having those moral standards, remember they're 463 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 1: not being consistently applied yet, So you see a lot 464 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: of movies with bad girls and scandal like Gene Harlow 465 00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: and The Red Headed Woman as an unstoppable and unpunished 466 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 1: home wreckerd working from a script by Anita Lose. By 467 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: the way, uh, you see Miriam Hopkins in the story 468 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: of Temple Drake. She's a woman who lives with a 469 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: gangster before she returns to respectability and may West in 470 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: a lot of her films where she's the super sexual 471 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: being who took her pick of men, and a lot 472 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 1: of feminist film critics love this period in film history 473 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: because even though you know, not all portrayals of female 474 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 1: sexuality are positive and Summer explore wative, during this period, 475 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: you still don't see women necessarily having to fit into 476 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: a strict moral pattern or a specific box about how 477 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:13,880 Speaker 1: to act, and they're not yet being killed off for 478 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: being sexual. But with the Haze Code comes those super 479 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 1: strict standards for what could be shown on screen, and 480 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:26,320 Speaker 1: it really grew out of essentially this group of Catholic 481 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: folks who developed a set of standards that would become 482 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: the official Haze Code. Prohibited profanity, licentious or suggestive nudity, 483 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 1: sexual perversions, and rape. And this is also where you 484 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: get married people in the movies sleeping in separate beds, 485 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: because you can't even suggest that even a married man 486 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: and woman might sleep together. And so in nineteen thirty 487 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:54,680 Speaker 1: three you get the Catholic based legion of Decency, which 488 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: sounds either terrifying or lame. I can't really decide um 489 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: that's crusading against Holly would as a moral threat. At 490 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: the same time that you see women's groups protesting depravity 491 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 1: and the mp p d A has to review screenplays 492 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: before they go into production, they demand changes, and this 493 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,719 Speaker 1: is when you see the punishment of sexual women of 494 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: loose women basically being officially instituted. This film group adds 495 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 1: the practice of moral compensation. Basically, sin could be shown. 496 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: Women could be living it up sexually, but they have 497 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: to be punished. So the woman who has sex or 498 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 1: commits adultery or whatever, she's got to drive off a 499 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 1: cliff or she's got to lose everything. Uh. Films, literally, 500 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 1: films in the early thirties that had already been made 501 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: were recut to show the woman who basically was like, oh, 502 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: I had a hard life, but I'm happy now, Like 503 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: she had to lose everything. They were like, nope, you 504 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: got a thlman, Louisa, just go off a cliff. Yeah. 505 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: And so basically, once the Hayes Code came into effect, 506 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: filmmakers had to get creative. So this is happening in 507 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: the mid nineteen thirties, and the challenge put to producers, directors, 508 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: and writers was to create sex without sex. Essentially, you 509 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: had to somehow um depict sexual tension without of course 510 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: um igniting the ire of the Haze Code. So this 511 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 1: actually produced really fantastic results for romantic comedy, and it 512 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 1: really led to the whole genre of screwball comedies because 513 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: you get this physicality with these early rom coms to 514 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 1: where you know, you can't really show them in a 515 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 1: certainly not in a bed together, even like bedrooms are 516 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: a little bit off limits, so sex becomes playful or 517 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: a lot of dance. I mean, if you have seen 518 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: UM films with Rettisterre and Ginger Rogers or Gene Kelly 519 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: and any number of the women that he co start with, 520 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: their dance numbers are essentially sex scenes in a lot 521 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: of ways. I mean, because that's how that's how they 522 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: woo the woman was through, you know, tap dancing, which 523 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: why doesn't that happen in real life? UM? And even 524 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 1: in the movie Bringing a Baby with Carrie Grant and 525 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: Katherine Hepburn, which came out I believe in nineteen eight, 526 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 1: I was thinking about this when I was watching it, 527 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 1: because there's this scene where they're in a nightclub and 528 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: Carrie Grant steps on the back of Katherine Hepburn's gown 529 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: and it rips off the back so her pentaloons are exposed, 530 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: and he's like, oh no, no, no, and she finally 531 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: realizes what's happened, and so to get through the restaurant, 532 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: he like, you know, holds her from behind, you know, 533 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: and they like walk. It was a really funny way, 534 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: like two by two um through the restaurant. But they're 535 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: so close. There's no room for the Holy Spirit between them, 536 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: not at all. And I was like, oh, there it is. 537 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 1: They're creating sex without sex. I had no idea that's 538 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 1: what I was watching. Okay, that's right. And and I 539 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: love the context of this because you know, we've moved, 540 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 1: obviously from the silent era, but you still have those 541 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 1: people working in Hollywood, and they had been expert at 542 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:22,239 Speaker 1: communicating comedy silently. So you had still a lot of 543 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 1: those uh, silent comedy directors who were so adept at 544 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: weaving in visual comedy pratfalls, hilarious little moments into those films. 545 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: But you also had a lot of that sparkling, quick 546 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,320 Speaker 1: dialogue that you obviously couldn't have in silent films, um 547 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 1: being written by both men and women from back East, 548 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 1: people who were veterans of Broadway, who were so skilled 549 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 1: at writing that all consuming dialogue that apparently can put 550 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: me to sleep if my brain gets too tired watching it. 551 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: But it did create these great speaking roles for women 552 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 1: who could care these films, oh man, like Katherine Hepburn 553 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: just and also Rosalind Russell were I mean so terrific 554 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: at that just missed machine guns toccato, Oh my god, 555 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:14,720 Speaker 1: I know? And Denby credits uh William Powell and Merna 556 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,840 Speaker 1: Lloyd in The Thin Man and Carrie Grant and Catherine 557 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: Hepburn in ninety eight Holiday. Uh with sort of setting 558 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:27,560 Speaker 1: the tone, displacing sex with wit, affection and style and 559 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,240 Speaker 1: setting the ball rolling on the era of screwball comedy 560 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,879 Speaker 1: and thank goodness. By the early fifties, movies finally get 561 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,360 Speaker 1: First Amendment protection through a Supreme Court ruling. But a 562 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:41,840 Speaker 1: lot of the film scholars we read were like, I 563 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: don't know, I kind of took something away when they 564 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:48,400 Speaker 1: were when filmmakers were forced to work around these regulations. 565 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,320 Speaker 1: So if we look at the timeline of rom coms 566 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 1: in Hollywood, the entire genre can be broken down into 567 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,839 Speaker 1: many genres. So in the nineteen twenties and thirties, with 568 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 1: those earliest rom com talkies, they were really comedies of 569 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:09,720 Speaker 1: manners that played a lot with status revolving around relationships 570 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 1: between people of different social classes, the high Low, and 571 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: one of the films often cited is It Happened One 572 00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:20,280 Speaker 1: Night with Clark Gable and Claudette Colbert. And you'll later 573 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 1: see this theme in movies like two thousand nine, The 574 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,320 Speaker 1: Proposal and two thousand ones bridget Gen's Diary, basically people 575 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,319 Speaker 1: of different social classes winding up together and becoming better people. 576 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 1: Although I could argue that Hugh Grant never becomes a 577 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 1: better person and burns, Oh yeah, he really doesn't, Hugh 578 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:41,359 Speaker 1: Grant the person. No, Oh, well, I don't know, but 579 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 1: you know this is coming out. This is the midst 580 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,959 Speaker 1: of the Great Depression, and despite the fact that people 581 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 1: were losing their jobs they had no money, movies still 582 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 1: remain popular, especially movies like It Happened One Night, because 583 00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:59,120 Speaker 1: these screwy romantic comedies were portraying the problems of the depression, 584 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,839 Speaker 1: but with character that ultimately triumphed over them. And so 585 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,440 Speaker 1: you get exposed, for instance, and It Happened One Night 586 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,960 Speaker 1: to the upper class life of Ellie, but you then 587 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,000 Speaker 1: watch she has to cross the country with no money, 588 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 1: and this is an enriching experience that helps her grow. 589 00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,360 Speaker 1: And a lot of people were attracted to the ideas 590 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 1: in these films that poverty was morally superior to wealth, 591 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,359 Speaker 1: and that your book learning or your city learning was 592 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 1: no better and definitely not superior to the school of 593 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,200 Speaker 1: hard knocks that a lot of people were living through 594 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 1: during this time. And um, I gotta mention one side 595 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,719 Speaker 1: fact about Clark Gable and this movie Caroline that goes 596 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,719 Speaker 1: back to our episode on toplessness and how we talked 597 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:45,840 Speaker 1: about um mail. Toplessness was not accepted for a while 598 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 1: in the twentieth century as well. Male nipples not okay 599 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 1: at the beach, but it happened one night. Contains a 600 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 1: scene in the bedroom where Clark Gable takes his shirt 601 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:01,720 Speaker 1: off and he's got nothing on underneath. Oh my gosh, 602 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 1: I know. And this was, I mean, talk about creating 603 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: sex without sex. I mean the side of Clark Gables 604 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 1: nipples were a pretty huge deal in Hollywood at the time, 605 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: especially since he had like seven of them. He had 606 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 1: so many extra nipples. Um And one source that I 607 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 1: read said that correlation causation. Sure, but undershirt sales plummeted 608 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,000 Speaker 1: after the movie came out because it was wildly popular 609 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:26,840 Speaker 1: and people were like, it was just Clark Gable winning 610 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:29,720 Speaker 1: Claudet Colbert with no under shirt on. Look at those nips. 611 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:34,480 Speaker 1: Look at those nips. Uh. But anyway, once we get 612 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:38,560 Speaker 1: into the thirties and forties, it happened one night really 613 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 1: did pave the way for the screwball era um, which 614 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:47,759 Speaker 1: specifically lasts between and nine two ish if you want 615 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:53,839 Speaker 1: to get technical about it, and screwball romantic comedies are 616 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 1: basically ninety minutes of a guy and a girl just 617 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,239 Speaker 1: putting each other through hell yeah and also just like 618 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 1: injuring themselves over and over again, um, in the process 619 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:11,240 Speaker 1: of falling in love. Yeah. And it's the movie Twentieth 620 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 1: Century that's also cited as a paved the wayer in 621 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,719 Speaker 1: this genre, and it really ushered in that idea that 622 00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,160 Speaker 1: people who love each other can and will do anything 623 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 1: they possibly can to torment one another. And this is 624 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,640 Speaker 1: also a great era, like I said, for women characters, 625 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: because you finally have a lot of league characters who 626 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,720 Speaker 1: are driving the story and are able like a Catherine 627 00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:35,759 Speaker 1: Hepern or a Rosalind Russell to give as good as 628 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,600 Speaker 1: she gets. She knows her in mind. She isn't above 629 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,800 Speaker 1: humiliating the guy. She's smart enough to outsmart him. And 630 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,520 Speaker 1: she can even be aggressive or a little predatory. But 631 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:53,040 Speaker 1: writing about film genre specifically romantic comedy, Julie Sealbo says 632 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,960 Speaker 1: that as big a fans as so many feminist film 633 00:38:55,960 --> 00:39:00,040 Speaker 1: critics are of this era, others have written that the 634 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:05,839 Speaker 1: threatened violence between couples, especially toward female characters, is a 635 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 1: sign that they weren't necessarily celebrated as independent and active women, 636 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 1: but that there is some anxiety around women's independence that's 637 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:18,399 Speaker 1: getting acted out on screen. I completely disagree. Well, no, 638 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:22,200 Speaker 1: go tell me, I completely disagree. I mean, as an 639 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:27,560 Speaker 1: armchair like twelve year old consumer of these films. Um. 640 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 1: And also I was I was thinking about this specifically 641 00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,319 Speaker 1: when I was watching Bringing Up Baby last night, because 642 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:37,800 Speaker 1: it's very physical and Katherine Hepburn and Carrie Grant both 643 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,800 Speaker 1: are constantly tripping and falling, like I said, just somehow 644 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:46,400 Speaker 1: hurting themselves, having car accidents, you name it. Um, And 645 00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,400 Speaker 1: I don't think that it is any way of trying 646 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:56,440 Speaker 1: to punish Katherine Hepburn's strong willed heiress, but rather, I 647 00:39:56,440 --> 00:40:01,520 Speaker 1: mean I thought it was really fan tastic to see 648 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 1: a woman being as active on screen as the lead man, 649 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,600 Speaker 1: you know. I mean that was My initial reaction to 650 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,799 Speaker 1: reading that was likely these women, like you said, they 651 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 1: give as good as they get and sometimes just like 652 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:22,240 Speaker 1: the dudes in screwball comedies, specifically that involves tripping and falling, 653 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,400 Speaker 1: Like I mean, there's a lot of banana peals everywhere, 654 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,800 Speaker 1: so to speak. Yeah, and so you've got these screwball 655 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:31,960 Speaker 1: comedies that are so popular there. They are the genre 656 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,879 Speaker 1: of romantic comedies during this time. And I mean, you've 657 00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 1: got elements still of those early ninet twenties comedies of manners. Uh, 658 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 1: you've still got that reverse class nobbery role play masquerade 659 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:50,880 Speaker 1: um a conventionally repressed person male or female being brought 660 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,000 Speaker 1: out of his or her shell by the zany person 661 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,160 Speaker 1: in that case, a zany heiress um and then you know, 662 00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,000 Speaker 1: being like, oh my god, you're so weird. Oh but 663 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,360 Speaker 1: I think I love you now, especially if that person 664 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,480 Speaker 1: takes off his or her glasses. This is also a 665 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,000 Speaker 1: genre that loves the magical makeover, which yeah, it really 666 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:15,360 Speaker 1: just requires like classes removable, you're beautiful. But what's interesting 667 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,479 Speaker 1: to see, because nothing exists in a vacuum, is that 668 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:22,080 Speaker 1: this whole screw ball nature, although it never truly goes 669 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 1: away as we can see in our romantic comedies today 670 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:29,120 Speaker 1: it starts to fade and get a little darker post 671 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,839 Speaker 1: World War Two. So you go from a plot like 672 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:36,320 Speaker 1: Philadelphia Story where the divorced couple reunites and that's the tension, 673 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,160 Speaker 1: uh to that of the film The Marrying Kind, which 674 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,960 Speaker 1: focuses instead on the path to divorce. And of course 675 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,680 Speaker 1: it's not like divorce was like super common or accepted 676 00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,799 Speaker 1: back then necessarily, but it was showing up in our 677 00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,399 Speaker 1: pop culture definitely as a reflection of the times. Oh yeah, 678 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,880 Speaker 1: I mean in the fifties and sixties you start having 679 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:02,840 Speaker 1: x is as in parts of rom coms, and the 680 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,480 Speaker 1: late fifties through the early seventies is known as the 681 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:09,680 Speaker 1: era of the sex comedy. Yeah so through the early 682 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 1: from the early fifties through the mid sixties particularly, the 683 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:18,000 Speaker 1: genre definitely lightens again. But that entails masculine and feminine 684 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:22,560 Speaker 1: roles becoming super black and white, oversimplified, and very explicit. 685 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,520 Speaker 1: Men were painted as wanting sex without strings. Women were 686 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:29,400 Speaker 1: painted as wanting financial security. If you've seen How to 687 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,759 Speaker 1: Marry a Millionaire, the seven year rich, some like at 688 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,480 Speaker 1: a hot gentleman prefer blonde's pillow talk all of that stuff, 689 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,080 Speaker 1: you know what we're talking about, And so the the 690 00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:43,760 Speaker 1: defining characteristics of these sex comedies were revolving around those 691 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,799 Speaker 1: gender differences about when sex should happen, because obviously the 692 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,080 Speaker 1: woman didn't want it till she was married, because that 693 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,600 Speaker 1: was what created the tension, right. The man's like, how 694 00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:53,239 Speaker 1: about how they give it to me now, baby, and 695 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:56,000 Speaker 1: the woman's like, no, not until we're married. It's like, oh, 696 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,640 Speaker 1: but I'm a bachelor with a martini and a record player. Uh, 697 00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,320 Speaker 1: marriage is tragic and awful and it's going to hamper 698 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,600 Speaker 1: my lifestyle. And she's like, well, then you're just not 699 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:06,200 Speaker 1: good enough for me. And then he's like, oh no, 700 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:08,200 Speaker 1: let me take off my glasses. I really love you. 701 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,719 Speaker 1: So that's early sex comedy. It turns out they were 702 00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:14,919 Speaker 1: just drunk on martinis and woke up the next day 703 00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:17,720 Speaker 1: completely hungover, and they were like this is a terrible idea. 704 00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,879 Speaker 1: Oh man, Well, yeah, a terrible idea because I fell 705 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,680 Speaker 1: in love with each other. And that's why the whole 706 00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,759 Speaker 1: masquerade thing is one of the largest plot devices for 707 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:31,359 Speaker 1: these sex comedies. And usually with sexual motives, you've got 708 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:35,160 Speaker 1: a man like Rock Hudson and lover come back pretending 709 00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,799 Speaker 1: to be a shy scientist to seduce storist day. But 710 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 1: when the woman does it, it it tends to be to 711 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,600 Speaker 1: like get one up on a female rival, or to 712 00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:48,160 Speaker 1: get the dirt on a female rival, rather than necessarily 713 00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,200 Speaker 1: to get back at the dude. And again, nothing exists 714 00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:52,680 Speaker 1: in a vacuum. I can say that all the time 715 00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:56,920 Speaker 1: for everything we ever record, because the sex comedy was 716 00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,080 Speaker 1: ushered in by a very specific set of cold your 717 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,280 Speaker 1: real circumstances happening at the same time. So in nineteen 718 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:07,080 Speaker 1: fifty three you have the release of the Kinsey Reports 719 00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:10,200 Speaker 1: that gets everyone talking about sex. You also have the 720 00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:15,160 Speaker 1: birth of Playboy happening. There are more people becoming fed 721 00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:19,600 Speaker 1: up with sexual double standards and these assumptions that women 722 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:24,200 Speaker 1: don't want or like to have sex. In nineteen sixty 723 00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:27,719 Speaker 1: we get the pill. I mean, you also have Cosmopolitan magazine, 724 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,480 Speaker 1: UM and Helly Helen Gurley Brown taking it over later, 725 00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:36,000 Speaker 1: I believe in the sixties or early seventies, And in 726 00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:41,400 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six, the strict moralistic film codes were replaced 727 00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:45,480 Speaker 1: with rating systems thanks to efforts by Auto Preminger to 728 00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:49,360 Speaker 1: go around the codes and find distribution for his sexually 729 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:53,319 Speaker 1: frank nineteen fifty three film that I have not seen, Uh, 730 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,280 Speaker 1: The Moon Is Blue, which apparently is a rom com 731 00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:01,520 Speaker 1: that investigates sexual desires and double standards. But even still, 732 00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,200 Speaker 1: even if it's not like in your Face, there were 733 00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:08,040 Speaker 1: so many like double entendres and yeah, all these films 734 00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:10,399 Speaker 1: like How to Marry a Millionaire in the Seven Year Itch, 735 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:14,200 Speaker 1: which is where you have the famous scene of Marilyn 736 00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:18,880 Speaker 1: Monroe standing above the subway great and her dress blows 737 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:20,520 Speaker 1: up and the guy's like, I don't know if I 738 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:25,640 Speaker 1: stay with my wife. Well, so, from the mid sixties on, 739 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,239 Speaker 1: you know, rom coms are becoming way more frank when 740 00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:33,400 Speaker 1: it comes to sex, but in return, we see the 741 00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,920 Speaker 1: whole faith and traditional romantic outcomes becoming a little ambivalent 742 00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:40,520 Speaker 1: or even pestimistic. We're getting into the seventies where we 743 00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,000 Speaker 1: get movies like Annie Hall and The Graduate and Harold 744 00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,360 Speaker 1: and Maud, which is the era of the radical romantic comedy, 745 00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:51,040 Speaker 1: which is like is love even real? Yeah? Apparently, you know, 746 00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:55,080 Speaker 1: the seventies is known as the me decade, when the 747 00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:59,680 Speaker 1: sexual revolution is overhauling sexual morays and you have more 748 00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,279 Speaker 1: women than achieving more financial independence. I believe it was 749 00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,799 Speaker 1: nineteen when we're finally unmarried women were finally allowed to 750 00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:09,400 Speaker 1: uh have credit cards. Good for them, I know, and 751 00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:14,799 Speaker 1: that way clueless could happen. Um and women's roles though 752 00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:19,240 Speaker 1: around this time, and films became diminished with the rise 753 00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:25,280 Speaker 1: of buddy comedies and action adventure plots. And if you look, 754 00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:29,080 Speaker 1: you know that's happening. And simultaneously I r L men 755 00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,760 Speaker 1: and women are becoming more open about sex and desire. 756 00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,880 Speaker 1: So what kind of tension can you build in a 757 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:40,600 Speaker 1: rom com I mean love this old school? Yeah, so 758 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,960 Speaker 1: you have people like Woody Allen and others investigating whether 759 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,160 Speaker 1: true love even exists, our soulmates a thing, do we 760 00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:51,320 Speaker 1: even need to have love in our lives to be fulfilled? 761 00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:54,800 Speaker 1: Or you know the sad sack I'm so empty because 762 00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:58,040 Speaker 1: I no longer believe in the importance of love. And 763 00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:02,840 Speaker 1: these films are really characterized by this cynicism that eventually 764 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:07,280 Speaker 1: moves toward acceptance of romantic love, but without necessarily losing 765 00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:11,760 Speaker 1: their identities, without necessarily having the all consuming fairy tale 766 00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:17,120 Speaker 1: going on, and so characteristics of these rom comms include 767 00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:20,360 Speaker 1: that sexual frankness and that questioning of the importance of love. 768 00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:23,759 Speaker 1: They're also breaking social conventions, so you're seeing divorce and 769 00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,800 Speaker 1: children out of wedlock being depicted. And because it is 770 00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,719 Speaker 1: the Me generation or the Me decade, that emphasis on 771 00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:33,760 Speaker 1: the self, you're seeing more characters in therapy or analysis. 772 00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:37,120 Speaker 1: You're seeing more people talking about and reading self help 773 00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:41,520 Speaker 1: books and um. In the movie Starting Over, for instance, 774 00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:45,440 Speaker 1: the character alludes to a women's self defense class. She's 775 00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:47,880 Speaker 1: talking about the right and wrong kinds of orgasms and 776 00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:52,200 Speaker 1: post divorce support groups, and on a clear day you 777 00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:56,359 Speaker 1: can see Forever and an unmarried woman. Those films emphasize 778 00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:00,520 Speaker 1: the importance, oh my God, of women's sexual fulfilm because 779 00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:04,640 Speaker 1: you can finally post Hayes Code admit that, like, oh yeah, 780 00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:06,480 Speaker 1: women are sexual too, They're like the other half of 781 00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,120 Speaker 1: this equation. Well, and talk about a sex comedy of 782 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,279 Speaker 1: this era that just came to mind as you were 783 00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,480 Speaker 1: talking about that is Um. I don't know the year 784 00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:17,959 Speaker 1: that it came out, but I believe it was other 785 00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:22,080 Speaker 1: late nineteen sixties early nineteen seventies, starring the beautiful Natalie 786 00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:25,400 Speaker 1: Wood Um. And it's called I'm going to miss up 787 00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:27,759 Speaker 1: these names, the name order, but it's something along the 788 00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:31,279 Speaker 1: lines of Bob Carol Allison Ted. Now I think it's 789 00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:35,759 Speaker 1: Bob Carol ted an Alice, and it's about these two 790 00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:40,480 Speaker 1: couples that are wondering whether they should swing or not, 791 00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,720 Speaker 1: and like everything revolves around that. I mean talk about 792 00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:45,279 Speaker 1: something a theme that you would not see in a 793 00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:47,759 Speaker 1: rom com. Well, yeah, I mean you've got the idea too. 794 00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:50,919 Speaker 1: Around this time, especially with Annie Hall, were like, yes, 795 00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:54,799 Speaker 1: we're questioning the existence of true love and soulmates and 796 00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:57,640 Speaker 1: you might not even end up together with that person, 797 00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:01,279 Speaker 1: but still love is there. So like you know, uh, 798 00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:04,000 Speaker 1: Diane Keaton's character and Woody Allen's character don't end up 799 00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:08,120 Speaker 1: together spoiler, but she finds love and happiness with someone else. 800 00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:10,359 Speaker 1: And he admits at the end of the movie like, oh, well, 801 00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:12,759 Speaker 1: just love is this like crazy stupid thing that you 802 00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:15,840 Speaker 1: know everybody wants and has to have even though it's ridiculous, 803 00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,520 Speaker 1: that crazy little thing called love, crazy little thing called love. 804 00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:20,919 Speaker 1: And so yeah, the idea of love is still there. 805 00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:24,399 Speaker 1: But we're finally admitting like, oh, we can depict not 806 00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:29,080 Speaker 1: tragic scenes, but you know, just more like bumbling, unfortunate 807 00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:32,399 Speaker 1: romances that don't work out, even if they might work 808 00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:36,200 Speaker 1: out with other characters. Well, and when we get into 809 00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:40,000 Speaker 1: the nineties and onward, I mean that to me is 810 00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:44,040 Speaker 1: such a classic era of rom coms because I mean, 811 00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:47,479 Speaker 1: you have Nora f bron making when Harry met Sally. 812 00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:51,920 Speaker 1: I know that came out in um, but yeah, I 813 00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:55,279 Speaker 1: mean it seems like this there's really a resurgence of 814 00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:57,399 Speaker 1: of rom coms. Oh yeah, totally. I mean, so Harry 815 00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:00,880 Speaker 1: met Sally is widely considered to be and homage to 816 00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:04,840 Speaker 1: Woody Allen, but again it concludes on a totally different 817 00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,840 Speaker 1: tone or a note with that amazing scene at the 818 00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,719 Speaker 1: end where Billy Crystal is confessing his love to Meg 819 00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,080 Speaker 1: Ryan in the middle of the parted I just love it, 820 00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:19,759 Speaker 1: and then Meg Ryan says, no spoiler kidding. Um. But 821 00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:23,839 Speaker 1: so this is when we see narratives returning that are 822 00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:29,880 Speaker 1: focused on romance to the exclusion basically for most of them, 823 00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:33,759 Speaker 1: of sex. We see sex no longer being primary or 824 00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:38,320 Speaker 1: even important. The couple, the romance, the fairy tale prince 825 00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:42,719 Speaker 1: charming stuff is what is of primary importance, and it's 826 00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:47,320 Speaker 1: up to the protagonist to figure out how and whether 827 00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,839 Speaker 1: she wants it. And this person is usually damaged in 828 00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:54,880 Speaker 1: some way. Uh maybe has gone through a painful experience 829 00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,920 Speaker 1: and now they're cynical about love because inevitably they're in 830 00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:00,160 Speaker 1: New York City and no good men or left to 831 00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:03,080 Speaker 1: New York City, and they've really got to come to 832 00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:07,440 Speaker 1: terms with whatever their pain or damages to be able 833 00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:11,640 Speaker 1: to come together with Prince Charming, like you see again 834 00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:15,240 Speaker 1: with the proposal with Ryan Reynolds and uh Sandra Bullock, 835 00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:18,160 Speaker 1: who's also a romcom queen who I just love, like 836 00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,759 Speaker 1: Sandra Bullocks probably one of my favorite people. I say that, 837 00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:25,520 Speaker 1: like I know are Sandy Sandy Um. But you know 838 00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:29,520 Speaker 1: that's a plot where the woman is a super independent, 839 00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:33,919 Speaker 1: career driven and doesn't want love and then finally has 840 00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:37,320 Speaker 1: her cold dead heart warmed by Ryan Reynolds adorable family 841 00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:40,640 Speaker 1: which I believe as Coach and Mary Steen Virgins it 842 00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:44,560 Speaker 1: is Coach, yeah, Um. But you see more plots like 843 00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:47,080 Speaker 1: that where it's like we're not even trying to get 844 00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:50,279 Speaker 1: in bed together, we just love each other so much. 845 00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:55,480 Speaker 1: And romcom characteristics around this time include things like nostalgia 846 00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:59,839 Speaker 1: around romance, which you absolutely see with When Harry met Sally. Um, 847 00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:05,000 Speaker 1: have references to older films, stories and songs to fill 848 00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:09,000 Speaker 1: characters and moods, you actually have a d emphasis on 849 00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:16,000 Speaker 1: sex and emphasizing its place, romantic compatibility and still marriages 850 00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:20,000 Speaker 1: the end goal. Everyone wants to find that someone. Why. 851 00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:22,200 Speaker 1: I think that whole referencing back to old films and 852 00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:24,680 Speaker 1: songs and stuff is so interesting because I never thought 853 00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:26,560 Speaker 1: about it that way. But when you have a movie 854 00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:29,600 Speaker 1: like My Best Friend's Wedding that's got a lot of 855 00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:32,440 Speaker 1: those great old songs in it, when you have a 856 00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:35,880 Speaker 1: Sleepless in Seattle like part of the plot is based 857 00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:38,360 Speaker 1: around and affair to remember, and so there is a 858 00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:41,759 Speaker 1: lot of that winking to the audience of like, look 859 00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:44,600 Speaker 1: at what we're trying to do. We're bringing romance back. 860 00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:49,000 Speaker 1: But a big exception to this very American conversation we've 861 00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:53,640 Speaker 1: been having because we are American Um is the British 862 00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:59,560 Speaker 1: rom com which did feature premarital sex um, but they 863 00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:03,360 Speaker 1: excuse it by making the sexually aggressive partner both female 864 00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:07,000 Speaker 1: and American a lot of times, for instance, in Four 865 00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:10,799 Speaker 1: Weddings in a Funeral, notting Hill and Wimbledon, which I've 866 00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:14,279 Speaker 1: never seen. I have not seen Wimbledon either, but yeah, 867 00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:16,200 Speaker 1: I think that's so funny. Again, this is a point 868 00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:19,240 Speaker 1: I literally had not considered before, but it's so true. 869 00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:22,799 Speaker 1: Four weddings in a funeral though like bless Andie mcdwell's heart. 870 00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:25,080 Speaker 1: She is so pretty, but she is a terrible actress. 871 00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:28,680 Speaker 1: But Groundhog Day, that's a fun one. It was so fun, 872 00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:32,319 Speaker 1: but she's so like she's just that pretty face that's 873 00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:34,799 Speaker 1: like vacant behind the ass. I have a follow up 874 00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:38,239 Speaker 1: question related to rom comms and Andy McDowell to ask you, 875 00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:43,600 Speaker 1: and also Matthew McConaughey. Is Magic Mike rom com I 876 00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:48,319 Speaker 1: haven't seen it. Caroline Listeners, please write me and let 877 00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:50,799 Speaker 1: me know everything that you think about Magic Mike and 878 00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:54,000 Speaker 1: Magic Mike XXL. Because Andy McDowell is in the follow up, 879 00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:57,839 Speaker 1: I would argue that it is a rom com. I 880 00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:01,600 Speaker 1: believe you and terrific. But anyway, well, I mean I 881 00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:03,840 Speaker 1: think to close out. I mean, we've given you a 882 00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:05,920 Speaker 1: really huge history to introduce this topic, but I think 883 00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:08,839 Speaker 1: to close out. Obviously, the calm part of the rom 884 00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:12,080 Speaker 1: calm is indispensable because if you didn't have the calm, 885 00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:15,520 Speaker 1: it would just probably be a rom dram and which 886 00:54:15,560 --> 00:54:22,480 Speaker 1: can be okay, you know, English, patient, whatever, but you know, 887 00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:25,239 Speaker 1: it's it's weird that like the defining characteristic of what 888 00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:28,400 Speaker 1: makes this genre is also what makes it so dispensable, 889 00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:31,560 Speaker 1: Like it's so easy to just poo poo them and 890 00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:35,840 Speaker 1: and gloss over them and ignore them because it's something 891 00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:38,920 Speaker 1: that's funny and it is prat falls and it's joking, 892 00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:43,160 Speaker 1: and it's wit and snark and sarcasm, and it is 893 00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:47,960 Speaker 1: happy endings. But like I love that. Sometimes sometimes I 894 00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:51,960 Speaker 1: don't watch them as much anymore, um, and I was wondering. 895 00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:53,600 Speaker 1: I was like, do I not watch anymore because they're 896 00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:56,040 Speaker 1: terrible and I'm so sick of Matthew McConaughey and Kate Hudson, 897 00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:58,480 Speaker 1: Or do I not watch them anymore because I'm like 898 00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:01,759 Speaker 1: older and in a stab this relationship. I don't know. 899 00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:04,080 Speaker 1: And it also makes you want to see some some 900 00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:10,120 Speaker 1: scholarly analysis of uh film criticism regarding Judd Apatow's rom coms, 901 00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:13,920 Speaker 1: because obviously that's like a whole new phase of it 902 00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,839 Speaker 1: where you have more of the raunch calm, but all 903 00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:20,279 Speaker 1: of those women still end up like I'm waving my 904 00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:23,319 Speaker 1: finger at this because like all of those women still 905 00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:26,279 Speaker 1: end up in the traditional feminine like I'm gonna get 906 00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:28,520 Speaker 1: married and be reformed by love things, and I am 907 00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:30,520 Speaker 1: going to be pretty emotional about it, and I'm going 908 00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:33,839 Speaker 1: to be pretty well yeah yeah, so well. I can't 909 00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:37,040 Speaker 1: wait to talk about this more now all summer, Um 910 00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,320 Speaker 1: and I think that we should give listeners a preview 911 00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:43,480 Speaker 1: of what's to come, because this is an overview, but 912 00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:49,760 Speaker 1: we're going to dive into more specific topics such as well, 913 00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:54,680 Speaker 1: for one, the cold, deadhearted career woman who finds love 914 00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:58,360 Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier. We're also going to dedicate an episode 915 00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:03,480 Speaker 1: to l g P, d Q rom coms and also 916 00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:09,320 Speaker 1: people of color and rom comms who are usually sidekicks. Yeah, yeah, exactly, 917 00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:14,000 Speaker 1: or the rom com is sort of a niche as 918 00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:18,560 Speaker 1: a black comedy right right, and ignored by the mainstream. 919 00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:22,319 Speaker 1: And then finally we're dedicating one to the sidekicks themselves. Yeah. 920 00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:23,920 Speaker 1: I can't wait. Oh my god, there were so much 921 00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:26,600 Speaker 1: like As I was taking notes for this episode, I 922 00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:28,560 Speaker 1: was like, oh this is this is? There so much 923 00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:30,360 Speaker 1: in here for everything, and I had to stop myself 924 00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:32,560 Speaker 1: from just reading for hours, although I did read for hours, 925 00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:35,879 Speaker 1: and never mind, it's really fun, Um and I bet 926 00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:38,040 Speaker 1: you have some fun letters to share with us, including 927 00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:40,919 Speaker 1: your favorite and least favorite rom coms. And why mom 928 00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:42,799 Speaker 1: Stuff at house stuffworks dot Com is where you can 929 00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:44,759 Speaker 1: send your letters. You can also tweet us at mom 930 00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:48,080 Speaker 1: Stuff podcast or messages on Facebook. And we've got a 931 00:56:48,080 --> 00:57:02,160 Speaker 1: couple of messages to share with you. Well, I've got 932 00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:05,200 Speaker 1: a letter here from Erica in response to our episode 933 00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:09,239 Speaker 1: on the comfort women of World War two. Uh Erica 934 00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:11,719 Speaker 1: says I found the episode very timely as I just 935 00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:14,200 Speaker 1: finished a paper about ethnic struggles in Japan for my 936 00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:17,560 Speaker 1: college finals. There may be several reasons behind the disturbing 937 00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:20,560 Speaker 1: fact that Japan won't acknowledge the comfort women from Korea. 938 00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:23,360 Speaker 1: One maybe because it would essentially open a can of 939 00:57:23,360 --> 00:57:26,360 Speaker 1: worms about the entire Japanese sex industry and how they 940 00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:30,520 Speaker 1: treat foreign women Overall. This additional mistreatment has happened outside 941 00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:33,720 Speaker 1: of war and still continues today. Japan has had an 942 00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:37,360 Speaker 1: influx of migration since their economy boomed in the nineteen eighties. 943 00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:42,080 Speaker 1: Filipino women often traveled to Japan under entertainment visas, and 944 00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:44,520 Speaker 1: Japan allowed this, knowing that these women would turn to 945 00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:48,520 Speaker 1: or be forced into prostitution. Additionally, Filipino women were brought 946 00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:50,880 Speaker 1: into the country to marry rural farmers who couldn't find 947 00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:54,440 Speaker 1: Japanese wives. These women were forced to adopt Japanese names 948 00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:57,360 Speaker 1: and denined cultural identity. The point here is that this 949 00:57:57,440 --> 00:57:59,640 Speaker 1: is all very recent and may still be going on. 950 00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:04,240 Speaker 1: Japan also has a recent tradition of recruiting half Japanese 951 00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:07,000 Speaker 1: women for modeling. These girls, as young as ten, are 952 00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:11,040 Speaker 1: collected from areas with large migrant populations, usually Brazilian, and 953 00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:14,760 Speaker 1: quote unquote adopted by modeling agency staff to live with them, 954 00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:17,800 Speaker 1: where they are molded into the perfect Japanese citizen. This 955 00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:19,520 Speaker 1: is another way to strip a girl of her own 956 00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:23,200 Speaker 1: cultural identity and objectify her. There are several more examples 957 00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:25,480 Speaker 1: of Japanese mistreatment of foreign women, but I didn't want 958 00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:28,120 Speaker 1: to make the email too long. Thank you for all 959 00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:29,880 Speaker 1: your work and I look forward to learning more from 960 00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:32,080 Speaker 1: your podcast, and thank you Erica for your notes. We 961 00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:35,320 Speaker 1: always appreciate filling in the gaps of our episodes. In 962 00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:38,720 Speaker 1: that whole having to take a Japanese name thing was 963 00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:42,240 Speaker 1: also going on with Korean women who were forced into 964 00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:45,600 Speaker 1: prostitution around World War Two, who uh men and women 965 00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:48,800 Speaker 1: alike had to adopt Japanese names. So thank you. So 966 00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:51,520 Speaker 1: I've got a letter here from Lauren in response to 967 00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:56,520 Speaker 1: our episode on the American military and prostitution, and Lauren 968 00:58:56,640 --> 00:59:00,680 Speaker 1: graduated from West Point In and served five years in 969 00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:06,040 Speaker 1: the military, including a deployment in Kandahar, Afghanistan, and she writes, 970 00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:11,000 Speaker 1: upon arrival in theater service, women received numerous lectures and 971 00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:13,960 Speaker 1: were told anecdotes, urban legend or real. I'm still not 972 00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:18,200 Speaker 1: certain of women being violently sexually assaulted, as if our 973 00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:22,360 Speaker 1: greatest threat wasn't enemy combatants but our fellows, soldiers both 974 00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:26,520 Speaker 1: American and Allies on base inside the secure perimeter. It 975 00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:29,440 Speaker 1: was so frightening that for the majority of the deployment 976 00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:31,600 Speaker 1: I carried a quick draw knife on my belt and 977 00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:35,200 Speaker 1: practice unsheaving it in case I was attacked in close quarters. 978 00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:37,640 Speaker 1: And this was on top of carrying a loaded pistol 979 00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:40,280 Speaker 1: on my hip. Female soldiers were not allowed to go 980 00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:43,520 Speaker 1: anywhere without a battle buddy, especially after dark, and could 981 00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:46,520 Speaker 1: get in trouble if found walking alone. I felt as 982 00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:48,760 Speaker 1: if the military was saying, ladies, is up to you 983 00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:51,200 Speaker 1: to protect yourselves, because we know these military men have 984 00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:54,360 Speaker 1: needs and eventually they won't be able to contain themselves. 985 00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:58,040 Speaker 1: I mean, really, one of the most ludicrous arguments against 986 00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:01,720 Speaker 1: women serving in combat arms, branches, and unions, is that 987 01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:04,480 Speaker 1: women will have sex with members of their units and 988 01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:07,920 Speaker 1: damage unit cohesion and morale. So basically, men can't keep 989 01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:11,040 Speaker 1: it in their pants, so let's keep discriminating against women, 990 01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:14,160 Speaker 1: or worse, women are temptresses who will seduce helpless men 991 01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:16,480 Speaker 1: who can't resist their charms and must be kept away 992 01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:19,320 Speaker 1: from our military heroes. I can't help but wonder and 993 01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:21,000 Speaker 1: hope that by the time my daughter is of age 994 01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:23,880 Speaker 1: to serve in the military, if she chooses, women will 995 01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:27,080 Speaker 1: no longer be expected to prevent their own sexual assault. 996 01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:30,440 Speaker 1: Oh well, Lauren, First of all, thank you for your service, 997 01:00:30,680 --> 01:00:35,400 Speaker 1: and thank you for sharing that with us um and listeners. 998 01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:37,640 Speaker 1: If you have thoughts to share with us, Mom stuff 999 01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:39,840 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com is our email address 1000 01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:41,600 Speaker 1: and for links to all of our social media as 1001 01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:44,160 Speaker 1: well as all of our blogs, videos, and podcasts with 1002 01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:48,080 Speaker 1: our sources. So you can learn more about rom coms, 1003 01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:51,160 Speaker 1: head on over to stuff mom Never Told You dot 1004 01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:57,640 Speaker 1: com for moral this, and thousands of other topics. Is 1005 01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:01,320 Speaker 1: it how stuff works dot com. Three