WEBVTT - Open Marriages with Eli J. Finkel, Steve Hernandez, and Julia Loken 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:03.720 My name is Alex, and I have more than one partner. 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:14.520 Nor no all right, will be all right soever? No 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:24.239 be al alright, no Molly all right ever. I was 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:26.319 raised in a family that, you know, my mom my 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:28.680 dad were always together and it was always just kind 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.200 of like super monogamous and uh, and I kind of 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:34.160 picked up that same spirit. But when we were researching 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:37.240 this episode, UM, there's a lot of really cool ideas 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:39.960 that kind of came to my mind. The same way 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:42.920 that people might have a spouse or a sexual partner, 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:44.959 they might also have a best friend or a friend 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:46.879 they play video games with, or a friend that they 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:50.160 do certain activities with. And it started making me think 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:53.640 about kind of the purpose for people in your lives. 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:57.600 And that's why really was so excited to do this episode, UM, 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:01.240 expanding kind of what relationships are in what they mean. So, 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:04.280 while I have a girlfriend and I am a very 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:07.759 monogamous minded person, I was so excited to kind of 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:12.720 hear the reasoning and the um experience in life experience 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:16.000 behind people who have different types of relationships. UM. And 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:19.000 so this isn't really a story time because this is 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:21.479 something that I'm really here to learn with you guys. 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:24.800 Usually I have a real nice, long story about my 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:27.679 experience in the field, but today I'm gonna let my 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:30.400 guests do the talking. So this just got me thinking, 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:34.080 is one partner enough? And what's it like to actually 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:39.360 have more than one partner? What's up, y'all? It's Alex 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:41.640 i oo here, this is my podcast. Let's get into 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:45.080 it where we get into everything, especially things that I 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:48.200 have no experience on. And today we're talking about O 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:50.400 S O S. You're gonna hear that a lot in 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:55.200 today's episode. It stands for other significant others. Like I 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:56.880 said in my story, I don't have a lot of 0:01:56.920 --> 0:02:00.000 experience in this. I'm actually really excited to learn more, 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:01.840 more and more about it. And I'm gonna be learning 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:05.320 from not one, not two, which is our normal number, 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:08.800 but three amazing guests. Uh and I want to introduce 0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:12.240 you to them right now. First up, we have a 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:15.399 stand up comedian who's also the host of several podcasts, 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:18.480 including The Male Gaze and Who's Your God. He's also 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:22.000 been featured on Comedy Central and was a field correspondent 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:24.840 for I Love You America with Sarah Silverman. The one 0:02:24.840 --> 0:02:28.239 and Only Steve Hernandez. What's up? Man, Hey all, that's 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:31.040 great to be here. Thanks for having you. Are fortunate 0:02:31.120 --> 0:02:34.440 enough to actually have a real personal connection to another 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:37.680 one of our guests. She is a Los Angeles based 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:41.920 comedian host of What's Your Sign, a comedy astrology podcast. 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:45.280 She's also been featured in Nylon, Bustle, The New York Times, 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:50.520 Women's health magazine, Vogue, and Cosmopolitan. Julia Lokan, how are you? 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:53.560 I'm good? Thank you so much for having me. You 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:55.680 guys got a petty I mean combined. We're gonna get 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:59.120 into your relationship in general, but just pedigree alone. You 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:08.000 guys got just a full gamut of success, solid, solid credits. Uh. 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:10.079 And on top of those credits that you guys share, 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:12.400 we have one more guest with us. The author of 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:15.079 the best selling book The All Or Nothing Marriage, How 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:19.240 the Best Marriages Work, professor at Northwestern University, as well 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:23.839 as a social scientists studying romantic relationships. He's published over 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:27.600 a hundred fIF Geez, Louise, I'm looking at this. This 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:30.040 is crazy, how much how much work has been done 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:32.400 amongst my three guests. He's published over a hundred and 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:35.560 fifties scientific papers and as a contributor to the op 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:39.800 ed page of the New York Times. Eli Finkel, how 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:42.440 are you, Eli? I'm doing well. I'm excited to be here. 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:45.720 Not only am I intimidated, but I'm very excited to 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:49.640 to learn about about this topic about open relationships and 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:54.000 other significant others. First up, Steve and Julia, You guys 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:56.360 and myself are going to be talking about opening up 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:59.920 your first hand experience in relationships that I can't speak 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:02.440 on UH. And then we're gonna take a break and 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:04.360 we're gonna come back, and Eli, you and I are 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:07.400 going to be talking about the complications of UH and 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:10.520 the intricate I would say intricacies more than complications of 0:04:10.800 --> 0:04:13.600 different types of relationships. And then, last, but not least, 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:15.640 we got we're talking love hacks and it's gonna be 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:17.520 all four of us and we're just gonna be figuring 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:21.000 out how the best relationships work. Well. Um, but before 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:22.920 we get into that, I have a question that I 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:25.480 ask all of my guests, and it's pretty simple question. 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:27.839 It is, what have you been doing this week to 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:31.520 improve yourself? Julia, you seem like you have an answer 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:34.520 for us. I do. I have lots of answers. I've 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:38.039 adopted like a real uh mantra for the year. Not 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:41.640 a resolution per se, but something that I'm constantly kind 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:45.000 of trying to do, which is systems not stories. So 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:46.560 I think I make up a lot of like negative 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:50.400 self talk stories that end up persisting problems instead of 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:53.200 solving them. So I'm trying to come up with like, Okay, 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:56.080 I haven't been posting enough on social media. So instead 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:59.200 of thinking like, oh, I'm bad at that, I'm going 0:04:59.240 --> 0:05:02.359 to create a schedule for myself and say, like Monday, 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:05.160 I need to post this thing. Tuesday, I need to 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:08.760 do this. Um, I've been feeling bad physically, and so 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:11.040 I did yoga today. That's another one where I was like, 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:13.760 that's a system over a story, instead of making up 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:16.120 a story about how I'm a terrible person who doesn't 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:18.599 take care of themselves. My friend was teaching a yoga 0:05:18.640 --> 0:05:21.440 class and I took that yoga class. I like that 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:24.720 systems over stories. That's a I've never even heard of 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:26.560 that before, but that makes so much sense as you 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:29.120 explained it. I love that. I love that, Uh, Steve, 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:31.760 you got something for us. Yeah, I've got a few things. 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:33.880 I think in the middle of this pandemic and everything, 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:38.040 especially it goes on longer and longer. I've been making 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:41.559 it a real habit to reach out when I start 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:45.000 to feel bad, when I start to feel anxious or depressed. So, uh, 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:47.520 not only have been I've been making phone calls to 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:50.200 my friends with especially I think as a as a man, 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:52.159 men don't typically do this kind of thing, but I 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:55.000 have been making phone calls. But twice this week I 0:05:55.080 --> 0:05:58.320 met my friends out socially distanced over at the Silver 0:05:58.400 --> 0:06:00.479 Lake Reservoir and we went for a two a walk. 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:03.080 But we're able to talk for half an hour and 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:06.560 then go, you know, on the two or three mile walk. 0:06:06.600 --> 0:06:09.280 It takes about an hour. And you know, no matter 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:11.719 what anyone says, any kind of thing, just moving your 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:15.080 body and seeing a friend because we can't do that anymore. 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:17.960 It energizes you and makes you feel so good. And 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:20.719 if you're feeling hopeless or anxious or depressed even a 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:23.760 little bit, remembering that you're not in the Salona, that 0:06:23.800 --> 0:06:26.159 people love you in this world. It's been. It's it's 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:29.720 it's changed the way I feel completely. Man. I love that, 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:33.880 especially because, like you mentioned in the pandemic, it's really taken. Um. 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:37.240 We've had episodes about it where anybody who has mental 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:39.400 illness who's already kind of known about it and has 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:41.159 been dealing with it, it's taken a hit and a 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:44.200 lot of people are also now realizing um kind of 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:47.400 the daily struggles. We just recorded an episode about about 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:51.080 anxiety and how some of anxiety is built into everybody 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:53.760 and some of it, especially in times like this, can 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:56.360 really flare up. And so I think that's a great 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:59.080 idea reaching out as huge. I started seeing a therapist 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:00.719 in the pandemic. It was the first time that I 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:03.200 decided to actually like reach out, reach out, and so 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:05.520 the fact that that was your answer makes me very 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:08.600 very happy. My friend, um Eli, how about you? What 0:07:08.640 --> 0:07:10.880 are you been doing this week to improve yourself? Well, 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:14.200 the new academic term started this quarter and I'm teaching 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:18.160 my undergraduate course on relationships science, the field where you 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:21.480 use data to try to figure out what works and relationships. 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:24.720 And I've been studying this stuff for over twenty years now, 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:28.840 but I decided to do a significant overhaul on the course, 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:31.240 especially because it's the first time I've ever taught several 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:33.920 hundred people on zoom and it has been a blast. 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:36.680 I've been doing a lot more work than necessary, and 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:39.520 it's certainly paying off so far. I don't even know 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:42.320 if I fully understand what you just said. But we're 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:46.160 gonna unpack. We're gonna unpack all of it. Um Uh. 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:49.360 It sounds like taking a course on on how successful 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:51.920 relationships work. Probably is something that we should all do, 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:55.320 and that's why we're here today talking about it. Um, 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:58.360 we've got I'm just hyped today. We have such good energy. 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:01.600 So let's get straight into it. Steve and Julia, let's 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:03.840 get into talking. Eli. I'll be with you in just 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:06.880 a sex you can sit tight. First off, you guys 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:11.600 just got married. Congratulations, Thank you? How was? How was? 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:14.320 What's a wedding like in in pandemic mode? What it 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:18.160 would take me down? Take me down the road? Well, 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:20.840 it's a real uh. I think it's like most things 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:24.120 in in pandemic boat, it's a very much an exercise 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:28.480 and surrender and being being okay with what you can 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:31.120 and can't control in those kinds of things. Um, we 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:34.160 went to Vegas and we're going to try to have 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:38.000 a really small, intimate kind of family only ceremony in 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:40.880 person thing, you know, obviously taking into account everything that 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:44.319 was going on. Um. But as the numbers, particular here 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:46.720 in l A got worse and worse, it just became 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:49.839 apparent that that was not going to be an option. Um, 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:53.080 but we still wanted to get married in it felt 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:55.480 like a it's like a good way to kind of 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:59.720 wrap up a shitty year, and we wanted to be 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:01.560 married ads. So we decided to go to Vegas, which 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:06.320 I'm a big Vegas person, and having like, uh, not 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:09.120 a shotgun Vegas wedding, but some kind of like quicky 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:12.160 Vegas wedding is like, uh a thing that I thought 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:16.480 would be fun um. And it was very funny. It 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:18.600 was like I mean not it was very special and 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:21.280 romantic and sweet too, but it's just it was a 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:24.559 really surreal you know, being in Vegas during your pandemic. 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:27.760 I think you like I it just hit me on 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:30.079 a lot more levels than I was expecting because you're 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:32.880 seeing people. It was a weird thing to see people 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:35.480 still kind of out acting like it's not a pandemic 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:38.640 and all of the things that come with that. But 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:41.439 it was also a really great I think, like I said, 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:44.559 exercise and surrender of really being like that what's important 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:48.920 about this isn't all of the other things like we 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:51.560 wore Dodger jerseys and we got our rings when we 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:54.000 were there and all of these things that it's like 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:56.800 it was special because it was us getting married and 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:00.319 professing our love to each other and doing this thing. 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:02.920 It wasn't what we were wearing or any of those things. 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:05.000 So it was a real like put your money where 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:08.720 your mouth is kind of exercise for me. I think. Ah, 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:12.600 And how long have you guys been together? Exactly? Six 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:16.040 years here? Six years? Six years? And so was there 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:17.880 any part of you guys that I know you had 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:21.320 mentioned you wanted to wait. Seemed like of great time 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:24.800 to to make something good out of the year. But 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:26.240 was there any part of you guys that said, hey, 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:28.760 we should just wait until it's until pandemics over so 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:30.960 we can have the family and the party and the 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:33.760 and the whole nine. I mean, we're still going to 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:37.640 do that. That's that's the only reason. Julian her wedding dress, 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:40.559 she has like a nice wedding dress and everything. We're 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:43.040 still going to do that, God willing at in New 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:46.439 Year's Eve next year. Everyone will be okay. By then, 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:49.560 it'll be safe. But yeah, so we did it because 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:51.520 I just I didn't want to call this. We only 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:54.199 got engaged in early November. I just I didn't want 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:56.320 to call her fiance. For a whole year we lived 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:59.840 together already. She's been my wife in my heart for 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:02.960 a while now, so it's just felt silly to me. 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:05.120 I was like, I'm not gonna I was a little 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:09.280 cautious because I felt bad about going to Vegas. But 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:11.880 we went. We spent the night in a hotel and 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:14.200 then our appointment was at twelve thirty pm, and then 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:16.360 we got the heck out of Vegas. So I think 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:18.920 there was just that thing. It was funny because we're like, 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:21.080 let's go, let's do what. I wanted this to be official, 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:22.880 and we did it. And then when we get to 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:26.920 this little white chapel and this uh, super sweet, hilarious 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:30.400 little Filipino woman in a glittery like bow tie was 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:33.320 marrying us. And then she she was really great because 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:35.360 she but she was rushing us too. She's like all right, now, 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:37.240 walked down the aisle and she ran up front and 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:39.640 press play on the CD player and the song played, 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:41.719 and then she's like say something sweet to her, say 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:43.960 it from your heart. And then I look into Julia's 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:45.960 face and as fun as this, and I was like, 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:48.319 this is just to make it official, but the real 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:50.839 weddings next year. When I looked in her face, I 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:54.160 was I was like, surprised at how moved I was. 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:56.319 I was like, okay, the real weddings next year. But 0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:59.760 also I can't believe this. We're really getting married and 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:02.640 then absolutely nobody in the world that I would rather 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:05.760 be partnered with them, this perfect woman right here. So 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:09.719 I was surprised at how how much emotion and how 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:12.000 much is still right there and that thing that we 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:13.719 want to do to be fun and to make it 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:17.840 official with paperwork, but I was surprised at how swelled 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:19.760 I was with emotion. She was like, speak from your 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:22.520 heart and you gotta believe me, Alex, I've got like 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:26.000 the sickest like of I was already written in my head, 0:12:26.000 --> 0:12:27.959 but so I didn't want to waste it in Vegas. 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:31.480 So I was just like mm, I just said like 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:33.960 very simple things, but also looking to joy his face, 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:36.880 I was like, I'm so happy that we're here right 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:40.480 now doing this because I'm so excited to be partnered 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:45.240 up with them. My my heart is absolutely just overflowing 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:47.960 right now. And I said, I'm actually so glad you 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:50.360 guys said that too, because and I don't and I 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:53.120 and I really hope that nothing that I say is 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:56.679 taken for anything other than me really being excited about 0:12:56.760 --> 0:13:00.400 learning about other types of relationships. But I'm so glad 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:05.600 that you started with that because your relationship isn't uh 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:09.640 is not necessarily the I don't. I don't even know 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:12.080 like a traditional relation. I don't know how, but maybe 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:14.920 it's more traditional. We're gonna learn. But um, I want 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:19.040 to get this right, Steve. You are open and Julia 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:21.840 is not open. Is that correct? Yeah? I would say 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:26.679 that I identify as non monogamous, polyamorous, and Julia at 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:29.559 this point does not, So yeah, I would say that's 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:32.520 fair to say. So I would love to to just 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:35.640 break that down and conventional that's the word I was 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:38.120 I was thinking of earlier. But I want to break 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:40.400 that down because I'm so glad that you started with 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:44.439 how how loving and incredible, even if it was in Vegas. 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:46.360 I'm so glad you talked about how rich your love 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:50.280 is because I think a common misconception, including a misconception 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:52.440 that I had for the longest time until I actually 0:13:52.520 --> 0:13:54.599 made friends with somebody a few years back who was 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:56.600 in an open relationship and kind of schooled me a 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:59.520 little bit. A common misconception with an open relationship is 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:02.120 this whole like, well, they're not really. It's just they're 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:03.840 like into each other, but they're not that into each other, 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:05.720 but they don't want to not be with each other. Like. 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:07.840 There's a lot of misconceptions, and so I'm glad that 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:12.559 we're here um talking about and unwrapping it. Um. But first, 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:14.880 before we get into the nitty gritty of that, I'd 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:17.400 like to take it all the way back to kind 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:21.120 of the early stages of your guys relationship, Julia. On 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:24.240 your end, what was that conversation, Like, at what point 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:27.800 did you guys have the conversation of being polyamorous or 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:31.200 or monogamous? And you know, were you guys already in love? 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:33.400 Was it right at the beginning on the first date? 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:37.880 Walk me through that. Well, we're both um, stand up comedians, 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:41.440 and that means that we uh, I guess thankful. I 0:14:41.480 --> 0:14:42.920 don't know, I don't know if thankfully it is the 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:46.400 right word, but I think I think thankfully. I mean 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:48.640 I don't think we could do it any other way. Um, 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:50.600 but I these are things that I knew about Steve 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:53.440 before we were in a relationship together, because you talk 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:55.960 about yourself in your material, so I was aware that 0:14:55.960 --> 0:15:00.160 he had been in previous, um, non monogamous relationships, and 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:04.359 when we got together, it wasn't necessarily like an explicit 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:06.600 conversation that we had, but I do feel like it 0:15:06.680 --> 0:15:09.720 was something that I knew was part of him and 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:12.560 part of his baggage so to speak, that was coming 0:15:12.600 --> 0:15:14.200 with or like just part of who he is, and 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:16.440 that that was something that would likely come up and 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:22.160 then um, but it wasn't, uh, you know. I feel 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:24.000 like it was more of a thing of like, yes, 0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:26.840 that's something that I'm aware of, will kind of cross 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:31.040 that bridge when we get to it, because I think, uh, 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:35.080 it wasn't something that was happening when we were first together, 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:38.960 but as obviously we've been together longer, there's been just different, 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:42.640 I think, different conversations about it at different points, sometimes 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:46.920 around like is this something that you um can be 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:52.360 okay with? Is kind of the I guess the main 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:55.160 question that would come up at different points as we 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:58.680 got further along in our relationship. So the thing that 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:01.960 I'm really interested in earning about especially with you. I, 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:04.200 Like I mentioned, I have made friends with people who 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:06.520 are in open relationships, but I've never made friends with 0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:10.400 somebody who's in a I guess partially open relationship. I 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:12.760 don't know if that's the proper term for it. Can 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:16.360 you talk about your choice to be partially open and 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:20.040 why that was still important to you to remain monogamous 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:23.120 even though you were entering this relationship. It's something for 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:25.400 me that's just not a thing right now. I can't 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:28.200 say how I'm going to feel, you know, further down 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:31.480 the line. And I think that's kind of my feeling 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:34.240 about the whole thing in general, is more just like 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:38.200 it's not really an issue for me, not not the 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:40.560 practice in and of itself, but I mean the the 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:45.680 to me. I don't I'm not like struggling with monogamy 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:49.200 or anything. I don't. I don't necessarily think that that's 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:52.280 always going to be the case or whatever, but I mean, 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:55.920 especially literally right now, in the pandemic and whatnot, Like 0:16:56.040 --> 0:17:01.520 I'm not I'm certainly certainly not open, but I think 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:05.399 it's less. I think it's more just like a to 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:08.240 each their own kind of thing, So it's not necessarily 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:13.080 a decided I am monogamous. He is not kind of thing. 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:16.160 It's more just like, if this is what you need 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:18.360 to do, this is what you do, I don't need 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:20.240 to do that at the time. There may again, like 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:21.959 I said, there may come a time in the future 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:25.400 when I when I would like to, And at that point, 0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:27.119 I'm going to be really grateful that I'm with a 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:30.800 partner who is open to those ideas and having those discussions, 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:33.600 because I think that that more than anything, I think 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:35.720 being able to talk about it and being able to 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:41.000 hold the idea of evaluating is this working for me 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:43.880 versus these are the ways that this is supposed to go. 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:47.800 Um is the most important thing I think for anybody, 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:52.520 whether you're in a monogamous relationship or a non monogamous relationship, whatever, 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:55.520 whatever kind of even casual dating sort of thing, if 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:58.240 if the core thing for all of those things is 0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:01.560 figuring out what actually works for you and makes you 0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.040 feel happy and fulfilled and like you are showing up 0:18:04.080 --> 0:18:08.160 in the most hole and complete kind of way. Oh man, 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:10.560 this is the thing, is like I really have since 0:18:10.600 --> 0:18:14.479 you guys started speaking on your relationship, I'm like, wow, again, 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:18.080 I think it's common misconceptions by by monogamous people. They 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:21.440 ask questions that are probably very very annoying to be asked, 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:24.119 and they and they um, and they view things in 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:26.919 a different way where it's I think it's very label 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:28.920 based and it's like, well, if you're in a relationship, 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:30.840 then it means this and it has to mean that. 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:32.840 And what you mentioned is like, look, at the end 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:34.639 of the day, you're with somebody who's just so open 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.639 minded that says, hey, if your heart desires something and 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:39.919 you need to follow your heart, then like you go 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:42.280 after it. Steve, I want to switch it over to 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:48.000 you a little bit. I have not heard the your comedy, UM, 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:52.159 your comedy routines that involve talking about your maybe your 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:55.760 reasoning behind being polyamorous. But can you talk me through 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:59.159 kind of what led you to that um that answer 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:02.879 that was something at you that you desired. Um, I 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:05.640 think it's something I got into with my ex. I've 0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:08.320 been doing this for about fifteen years and I was 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:11.920 married previously, we were open. That wasn't the reason why 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:14.360 we ended. We ended because I started doing comedy, which 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:17.040 is a terrible life. I wouldn't I wouldn't put it 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:19.159 on anybody I really do. I feel bad about it 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:21.760 with my ex wife that I started comedy after we 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:23.760 got married, and it was really like the worst thing 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:25.720 you could put on someone but her. Her and I 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:30.840 were open as well. Uh we stumbled into it. Uh um, 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:33.560 you know, we stumbled into it. We started doing all 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:35.479 the other things. And then when I was married, I 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:38.600 was like a regular kind of anybody who would identify 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:41.440 as polyamorous. All the kind of things you've heard are 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:44.679 are like the scummy jokes or whatever. I was like 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:47.440 the guy who was trying to, like ten years ago, 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:49.760 fifteen years ago, I was trying to talk everyone into it, 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:52.840 like this is like the best lifestyle for everyone. Everyone 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:55.080 needs to think this way. It is like that. I 0:19:55.160 --> 0:19:59.120 now understand that that's absolutely not the case, and and 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:02.960 that my how I define it as constantly evolving as well. 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:07.280 I really love relationships and I really love people, and 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:11.080 to me, ultimately, I want each relationship to be what 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:14.440 it what it can be, and if that includes physicalness, 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:17.720 that's okay. If it's a romantic relationship without touching, I 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:19.960 would like it to be that kind of a thing too. 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:23.480 I understand most people have a hard time just finding 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:26.679 one partner so I know how greedy it looks for 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:31.240 me to say I want like more than this perfect person. 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:33.800 I mean, people would be like you, piece of ship 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:36.280