Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: George nor with you, calling Dickey with Us. His book
Speaker 2: is called Under the Eye of Power. His website is
Speaker 2: linked up at Coast tocoastam dot com. Colin, you were
Speaker 2: talking about Abraham Lincoln's best friend. Why would he? Why
Speaker 2: would that doctor do that?
Speaker 1: All right?
Speaker 3: This guy, this guy Sho who claimed that he was
Speaker 3: a Lincoln's best friend. And this looks like a huge bestseller.
Speaker 3: Everybody bought this story even though it was based on nothing.
Speaker 3: He just told us whole He wrote this whole memoir
Speaker 3: about they were best friends. Why did he do it? He?
Speaker 3: I think what he he was in a real be
Speaker 3: in his bonnet about Catholicism, and he really thought that
Speaker 3: the Catholics were out to just undermine everything that's great
Speaker 3: about America, which I think is pretty nonsensical, but it
Speaker 3: was a pretty popular belief at the time, and I
Speaker 3: think it was a way for people to sort of like,
Speaker 3: you know, they had been through the Civil War. It
Speaker 3: it really messed people up, and they were looking for
Speaker 3: some kind of narrative and for some reason, this one
Speaker 3: really just kind of, you know, grabbed people's attention, and
Speaker 3: they sort of allowed them to kind of kind of
Speaker 3: forget maybe what had happened and why it had happened.
Speaker 2: I guess tell us about William Morgan and what happened
Speaker 2: to him.
Speaker 3: So this was fascinating, you know. I mean, for all
Speaker 3: the all of the conspiracy theories around the Freemasons and
Speaker 3: all the kind of terrible things they've done, the one
Speaker 3: thing that they really did that's on record, that that
Speaker 3: is actually absolutely provable happened in upstate New York in
Speaker 3: eighteen twenty six. This guy, William Morgan, was a Freemason.
Speaker 3: He got tired of the organization. He decided to leave.
Speaker 3: He was going to publish a book with the secret
Speaker 3: rights of the Freemasons, and he was going to make
Speaker 3: it make it public. And this annoyed his brothers and
Speaker 3: they decided to harass him. They threw him in jail
Speaker 3: a couple of times on trumped up charges, trying to
Speaker 3: get him to you know, racan't and he refused. To
Speaker 3: the guy who was going to publish it, they burned
Speaker 3: down his printing press. Finally, in August eighteen twenty six,
Speaker 3: they they threw William Morgan and jail again and then
Speaker 3: this sort of mysterious figures shows up to bail him out,
Speaker 3: and at first Morgan is pretty pretty happy to be
Speaker 3: released from prison. They realized that he doesn't know this
Speaker 3: guy and he's being hustled into a waiting carriage. Morgan
Speaker 3: shouts to the onlookers on the street, you know, help,
Speaker 3: I'm being murdered. Oh yes, that's the last anybody ever
Speaker 3: saw William Morgan. And you know, nobody, nobody knows for
Speaker 3: sure what happened to him, but it seems like these
Speaker 3: guys in upstate New York, you know, disappeared him, so
Speaker 3: to speak. And that you know, as I said, for
Speaker 3: all of the conspiracy theories around the Freemasons, that's the
Speaker 3: one act of violence that can you know, actually be
Speaker 3: attributed to any American Masons.
Speaker 2: There was strange violence in this country during these days,
Speaker 2: wasn't there.
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean, yeah, it was. It's fascinating that there
Speaker 3: there was a lot of kind of you know, riots
Speaker 3: around that time. And I think we maybe now we
Speaker 3: think of our our history as sort of, you know,
Speaker 3: pretty peaceful one with a few notable exceptions, but it
Speaker 3: seems like we had like riots pretty regularly, and they
Speaker 3: were used by different people to kind of you know,
Speaker 3: uh gin up you know, bigotry towards people, or to
Speaker 3: you know, keep people in line. And and this, this
Speaker 3: h Freemason event was you know, actually kind of par
Speaker 3: for the course, not by the Freemasons themselves, but just
Speaker 3: by Americans generally. We just seem to like to have
Speaker 3: a good riot every so often. That seems to be
Speaker 3: something maybe kind of baked into who we are.
Speaker 2: I guess, which is amazing. How did you come upon
Speaker 2: all these stories?
Speaker 3: Calling it was? It's fascinating.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: I set out I you know, as I said, I
Speaker 3: I picked up my topic. I was going to look
Speaker 3: at groups either either feel or imagined who were working
Speaker 3: behind the scenes to uh you know, break laws or
Speaker 3: or curtail civil liberties. And I just kind of casta
Speaker 3: a wide net. And I, you know, in some cases
Speaker 3: this sort of thing, one thing would lead to another,
Speaker 3: and I would just sort of kind of follow a
Speaker 3: rabbit hole. And that's how I found out about I
Speaker 3: was just kind of looking around for these kind of crazy,
Speaker 3: you know, these these anti Catholic conspiracy theories like this
Speaker 3: the Shaniqui guy. And that's how I found out about this.
Speaker 3: This convent in outside of Boston in eighteen thirty four,
Speaker 3: was you know, another kind of just crazy riot that
Speaker 3: just happened where you know, the local people in Boston
Speaker 3: decided they were just going to burn this convent to
Speaker 3: the ground. And I'd never heard of this before. I
Speaker 3: you know, I've spent a lot of time in Boston.
Speaker 3: I know a lot of people there. Nobody I know it,
Speaker 3: ever heard heard of this before. And you know, Boston
Speaker 3: is is known for the the Boston Tea Party. It's
Speaker 3: it's known as a place that you know, kind of
Speaker 3: wears its riots proudly on its sleeve. And and here
Speaker 3: was one that nobody was talking about. How they they
Speaker 3: ransacked and destroyed this this Catholic convent out, you know,
Speaker 3: based on this faulty notion that people were being held
Speaker 3: there against their will.
Speaker 2: I go to Denver once a month to tape some
Speaker 2: television programs. You went to the Denver Airport to do
Speaker 2: a little investigating.
Speaker 3: I mean, you gotta right, like, I mean, you know,
Speaker 3: I don't I don't know what your experience with the
Speaker 3: Denver Airport is, but I I've been going there, you know,
Speaker 3: I don't know, for twenty years or so, and it's
Speaker 3: always like, why is it so far out? That's my
Speaker 3: big question is that it's like takes forever to get
Speaker 3: there at it. And I guess I understand why people
Speaker 3: might think there's something going on there, just because it
Speaker 3: seemed weirdly out in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 2: It's huge, it's huge, right.
Speaker 3: And then there's the the that that blue or horse
Speaker 3: when you come in and out.
Speaker 2: You heard the story of that horse. It fell on
Speaker 2: the architect and killed him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the guy who designed it, Yeah, like it killed
Speaker 3: him on his leg and you know, he bled out
Speaker 3: and it's it's horrifying. I mean, like you know that
Speaker 3: who's that guy? Lewis Amenez is the name of the sculptor,
Speaker 3: and his work is all over El Paso. I think
Speaker 3: that's where he's from. So I've seen his work everywhere
Speaker 3: and most of it's fine, normal, and that one, for
Speaker 3: some reason, is just terrifying.
Speaker 2: They say the Denver Airport has been constructed for any
Speaker 2: kind of earth emergency and they would need to put
Speaker 2: the government leaders underground. You think it's out there?
Speaker 3: I sure, why not? I mean, you know, like that
Speaker 3: seems a weird place to put them though, right, Like
Speaker 3: wouldn't you put them near DC or something.
Speaker 2: I mean, they're a source of power, you would think.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, it is huge. It does like ask a
Speaker 3: lot of questions. When you're out there, you're just sort
Speaker 3: of like, I mean, I went there for a weekend,
Speaker 3: and I had a flight in the afternoon, and I
Speaker 3: purposely got there as early as I could so I
Speaker 3: could just kind of go through security and loiter around
Speaker 3: and you know, not not draw the attention of any anybody,
Speaker 3: because I wasn't doing anything wrong, but I just kind
Speaker 3: of wanted to kind of experience it. And you're right, like,
Speaker 3: it's huge. It goes on forever, it doesn't seem to
Speaker 3: need that much space, and all these sort of kind
Speaker 3: of minor maybe you know, architectural decisions all sort of
Speaker 3: add up, and you start to wonder, like, is there
Speaker 3: something really going on here beneath the surface? Maybe maybe not.
Speaker 2: We had a congressional hearing today on UAP's I call
Speaker 2: him UFOs now, of course, and a lot of people
Speaker 2: are still suspicious of government calling with respect to hiding information.
Speaker 2: What do you think of that?
Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting. I listen to a lot of that.
Speaker 3: I've been following that story that guy, you know, he's
Speaker 3: he keeps saying, you know, I can't say anything publicly
Speaker 3: because it's all classified, which which might be true. It
Speaker 3: made me say, think of this book Donald Keijo's UFOs
Speaker 3: are real from like nineteen Yeah, he had a bunch
Speaker 3: of guys also, you know, air Force pilots and other
Speaker 3: guys who said, you know, we've seen stuff. And I mean,
Speaker 3: you know, we've been We've been seeing this story of
Speaker 3: a guy coming forward and saying he's seen stuff. We've
Speaker 3: been seeing it for for decades. You know this a
Speaker 3: lot of people, I think are are acting like this
Speaker 3: guy and what is the name Gretch, Like he is,
Speaker 3: you know, the first guy who's ever done this. But
Speaker 3: we've we've got these guys, We've had these guys on
Speaker 3: record for a long time, and it's it seems interesting
Speaker 3: that we keep kind of getting that same story without
Speaker 3: anything really coming from it.
Speaker 2: Why is there so much distrust and it goes all
Speaker 2: the way back to the beginning of government.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's weird. You know, in the beginning, when when
Speaker 3: you see kind of fear of secret groups, whether or
Speaker 3: not it's the Freemasons or or the Illuminati or or
Speaker 3: the Catholics or whomever. It's always like, the people are
Speaker 3: always worried about government being attacked from from the outside.
Speaker 3: That you know, it's it's foreign influences, it's it's French revolutionaries,
Speaker 3: or it's the pope, and they're going to undermine our
Speaker 3: great democratic system. We you know, we're the first democracy.
Speaker 3: We've got it all worked out, and so we're we're
Speaker 3: deeply paranoid that somebody is going to come in from
Speaker 3: a foreign power and undermine America. And that shifts by
Speaker 3: you know, the post war, post World War two. Suddenly
Speaker 3: it's the government who is, you know, the the conspirator,
Speaker 3: the government who's had to get us to, you know,
Speaker 3: the government we stopped trusting. And I think that's a weird,
Speaker 3: fascinating shift that we went from thinking that the government
Speaker 3: needed to be protected from conspirators to thinking that the government,
Speaker 3: you know, is itself the main conspirator.
Speaker 2: What is a secret society to you?
Speaker 3: To me, I think of a secret society, and in
Speaker 3: two ways I think of I think there's a there
Speaker 3: there are literal groups like you know, the Freemasons. I
Speaker 3: think that's a pretty straight forward secret society. And these
Speaker 3: guys either are doing something the farious or not, you know,
Speaker 3: I think almost I think of like Nixon's cronies as
Speaker 3: a secret society doing something the farious, kind of working
Speaker 3: you know, conspiratorially to break laws. There's this other kind
Speaker 3: of secret society, which I think we think of as
Speaker 3: like a much more kind of kind of nebulous and
Speaker 3: ambiguous and wide reaching. Like when you talk about talk
Speaker 3: to people about the Illuminati, it's like, you know, they're
Speaker 3: they're capable of doing anything, They're everywhere in anywhere. They're
Speaker 3: almost kind of like kind of magical or supernatural and
Speaker 3: their ability to sort of reach out and affect everything.
Speaker 3: And I think we have these kind of two parallel
Speaker 3: versions of secret societies, one which is kind of grounded
Speaker 3: in history, and one which is maybe a little bit
Speaker 3: more supernatural.
Speaker 2: I think you investigated the CIA, what did you uncover?
Speaker 3: So? Yeah, one of my favorite stories in the book
Speaker 3: is this, this crazy story, and this is absolutely true.
Speaker 3: The CIA got involved in trying to find drugs, like
Speaker 3: you know, mostly LSD, but other drugs that they thought
Speaker 3: could do could achieve mind control. And they were trying
Speaker 3: all these different experiments to see if they could get
Speaker 3: you know, people to do stuff under LSD. The craziest,
Speaker 3: craziest one happened in San Francisco in the fifties where
Speaker 3: they got a apartment which they sort of outfitted and
Speaker 3: decorated to look like a brothel, and then they got
Speaker 3: sex workers to bring back John's from the local bars
Speaker 3: and clubs in North Beach and San Francisco to this
Speaker 3: this pad. They called it the Pad, and it was
Speaker 3: outfitted with all these two way mirrors and listening devices,
Speaker 3: so all these CIA agents could basically watch these people
Speaker 3: have sex. And these these prostitutes would dose their clients
Speaker 3: with LSD without their knowledge and then basically have sex
Speaker 3: with them, and the CIA agents would just watch and
Speaker 3: take notes. And this this was called Operation Midnight. Climax
Speaker 3: was the code name for it. And this went on.
Speaker 2: Did they what did they expect to learn?
Speaker 3: I mean they I don't know that they really. I
Speaker 3: think maybe they were just a little a little bit voyeuristic.
Speaker 3: I mean yeah, like I don't know that they ever
Speaker 3: got anything useful. I mean, you know, you can imagine this.
Speaker 3: You know, being taking LSD without your knowledge or consent
Speaker 3: probably messes you up something because you don't really know
Speaker 3: what's going on, and all of a sudden, your perception
Speaker 3: has all changed. But I don't you know, I guess
Speaker 3: they they thought maybe it would lead to some kind
Speaker 3: of revelation about you know, mind control or persuasiveness or
Speaker 3: maybe getting people to do things against their their will
Speaker 3: and kind of a Manchurian candidate way. But I think
Speaker 3: I don't think it. I don't think they ever got
Speaker 3: anything useful. I think they just liked it and they
Speaker 3: were getting you know, taxpayers basically pay them for this,
Speaker 3: you know, kind of crazy kind of second sting operation
Speaker 3: they were running.
Speaker 2: You have a chapter about a situation in eighteen thirty
Speaker 2: four outside of Boston where mobs burned down a convent.
Speaker 2: What did they do?
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, so yeah, so again you know these kind
Speaker 3: of anti Catholic conspiracy theories that were really popular in
Speaker 3: the nineteenth century, and these guys decided that, you know this,
Speaker 3: these Catholic priests were using the confessional as maybe kind
Speaker 3: of part blackmail, part mind control to you know, enslaved
Speaker 3: young women who were being held there against their will.
Speaker 3: And so this this rumor kept spreading to the point
Speaker 3: where they decided they were just going to break into
Speaker 3: this convent liberate all the women. They figured that there
Speaker 3: was maybe sort of unwanted children who had been murdered
Speaker 3: and buried in the in the basement. So they they
Speaker 3: you know, hustled all these women out, who were of
Speaker 3: course horrified and confused because that was their home. They
Speaker 3: didn't want to be livery. They were fine, you know,
Speaker 3: these guys didn't find anything, they didn't find any evidence
Speaker 3: of anything that there wasn't anything, but they decided to
Speaker 3: burn the convent down to the ground anyways, and they did,
Speaker 3: you know, luckily they didn't kill anybody. But this was
Speaker 3: this was again one of one of Boston's sort of
Speaker 3: notable riots, but one that maybe was a little bit
Speaker 3: more infamous than the Boston Tea Party. So it doesn't
Speaker 3: get talked about a lot, and it's been more or
Speaker 3: less forgotten, but it it definitely happened. It was definitely
Speaker 3: part of Boston's crazy history.
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