Speaker 1: The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording
Speaker 1: themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters
Speaker 1: because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives.
Speaker 1: He just walked around shot all the black people. The
Speaker 1: cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure
Speaker 1: out how to go on and how to compete. I
Speaker 1: wanted to win for them more than anything this season.
Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and
Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find
Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt
Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the
Speaker 1: Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality,
Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious.
Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know
Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to The Girlfriends
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts. Hi, I'm free and I'm rthy. We have
Speaker 1: spent the last twenty years building and working at some
Speaker 1: of the largest companies in the world. We worked with
Speaker 1: some remarkable people. Rob mcalinney. When I see the people
Speaker 1: of Wrexham, I grew up exactly like them. Check Out
Speaker 1: the Arth and Tree Arm show. That is a R
Speaker 1: D HI and s R I R A M show.
Speaker 1: Listen to the Art Instrie Arm Show on the iHeart
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: This is the story of a man who's fascinated me.
Speaker 1: His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's a name
Speaker 1: you don't forget. He was a visionary who built a
Speaker 1: fortune as a black man during Jim Crow during the Depression,
Speaker 1: but today not many people know about him. The race
Speaker 1: sort of wiped out, and I wonder if this was
Speaker 1: done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. To me,
Speaker 1: it maybe had something to do with that one little girl.
Speaker 1: But to me, there's a bigger read. You can't tell
Speaker 1: me that day won't be in and heeled eight people
Speaker 1: over one child. It's just so bizarre that there's so
Speaker 1: many twists and turns. It's mind boggling, and it's like
Speaker 1: a powerful trying to put the pieces together. It's just
Speaker 1: got so many tentacles and goes in so many different directions.
Speaker 1: Nobody has said anything other than he was shy and
Speaker 1: in love with Hannah Rode, literally in love, like something
Speaker 1: is off. This is the Pike of Massacre, returned to
Speaker 1: Pike County season three episode hen House on a Hill.
Speaker 1: I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie's Studios with
Speaker 1: Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane. In researching this story, we
Speaker 1: sometimes find ourselves mired in details that lead to dead ends.
Speaker 1: In this episode, before George Wagner the fourth Trial, we're
Speaker 1: stepping back to take an eagle eye view on the
Speaker 1: dark power dynamics at play in southern Ohio. We have
Speaker 1: uncovered some shocking new theories about what might have led
Speaker 1: to the grizzly murders of the eight members of the
Speaker 1: Rodent family. Here's Stephanie and Jeff. After following the story
Speaker 1: for years, you really start to see that there are
Speaker 1: sort of two piked In's in one piked In. There
Speaker 1: are people simply trying to live, work and put food
Speaker 1: on the table for their family. And on the other hands,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people in power who are misusing it,
Speaker 1: and quite a few of these individuals have used their
Speaker 1: power for personal gain period, often with brutal consequences for
Speaker 1: those who get caught in the crossfire. No one exemplifies
Speaker 1: this more than Michael Moran, who we know is a
Speaker 1: local Portsmouth lawyer who was accused of doing all sorts
Speaker 1: of heinous things. As we've discussed in previous episodes, Michael
Speaker 1: Moran preyed upon vulnerable female clients, often prostitutes and drug users.
Speaker 1: He lured them in with inexpensive legal representation than trapped
Speaker 1: him into sexual slavery and worse. His victims were people
Speaker 1: like Megan Lancaster, who went missing in twenty thirteen. Angie
Speaker 1: Montgomery knew her and her sister in law, Katie, who
Speaker 1: spent years trying to find Megan. Here's Angie the way
Speaker 1: Katie described Megan to me. She looked at me and
Speaker 1: she was like, I knew she would find a way
Speaker 1: to get a hold of somebody. I knew she would.
Speaker 1: That's what I always you know, it was in the
Speaker 1: back of her mind. I knew she would find a
Speaker 1: way to save something to somebody during her tireless crusade
Speaker 1: to find out what happened to Megan. Katie Lancaster also
Speaker 1: fell victim to the pressures of life in Pike County.
Speaker 1: I'm going to be honest with you, she was easing.
Speaker 1: I didn't know it. Hern her husband went through hell
Speaker 1: right before she died. And she also told me that
Speaker 1: the court told her to stop with her Megan's campaign.
Speaker 1: She was found in an area in Portsmouth it's known
Speaker 1: for drug daily and she was found in a house
Speaker 1: having apparently overdosed. Right, that's the same area that Moran's
Speaker 1: office was in her right, Right, that's the road. Here's
Speaker 1: Jeff speaking with Sophie, an acquaintance of the Wagner family.
Speaker 1: We spoke with her in an earlier episode, but as
Speaker 1: a reminder, she's the one who alerted us to ties
Speaker 1: between Michael Moran and Angela Wagner's father, Pug Carter. It's
Speaker 1: not a surprise to me that her dad had him
Speaker 1: as a lawyer. That was news to me. How did
Speaker 1: you find that out? You'd probably send you the link
Speaker 1: to it. We talked about Michael Moran on the podcast,
Speaker 1: but kind of as an outlier. It just spoke to
Speaker 1: crimes that were happening in the community. But this really
Speaker 1: connects Michael Moran to the Wagner family. Yes, and Auntie
Speaker 1: was always really close with her dad. From what I
Speaker 1: remember is that there was like an undercover seeing where
Speaker 1: the police were going to his house and purchasing and
Speaker 1: selling drugs. So actual drug bust is how he got caught.
Speaker 1: Another local sleuth who goes by j J, confirms the story.
Speaker 1: Everybody there in that little town of South Webster knew
Speaker 1: what he was doing. I mean, he was their supplier.
Speaker 1: Is it just mainly pot? Now we're talking about her
Speaker 1: part drugs like heroin and cocaine, oxtic CoDown. He even
Speaker 1: did time prison for his drug dealings. He was a
Speaker 1: want to be gangster, if you will. So that's what
Speaker 1: she grew up in. That's what she was familiar with.
Speaker 1: Billy Wagner's aunts lived across the street from the cars.
Speaker 1: That's how they had to have met. For a defense
Speaker 1: lawyer like Michael Moran, Pug Carter was probably a legitimate
Speaker 1: source of study income, but he also recognized another possible
Speaker 1: stream of cash from his less well off female clients.
Speaker 1: Michael Moran exploited the power dynamic ruthlessly, often abusing the
Speaker 1: women he lured in and calling them the product he
Speaker 1: turned around and sold their services right back to the
Speaker 1: most powerful and Pike County. It's rumored that some of
Speaker 1: this took place in a house on a hill just
Speaker 1: south of Piketon. Here's Stephanie speaking with Angie Montgomery. This
Speaker 1: is just, you know, frankly rumor in speculation that there's
Speaker 1: a place that was this house slash bar, and officials,
Speaker 1: people that worked for the local police would go there
Speaker 1: for drinks, and sometimes there would be girls there and
Speaker 1: maybe not such great behavior would happen behind closed doors. Yes,
Speaker 1: and if you give me two seconds, I'll give you
Speaker 1: the name in the place. It's on top of Big
Speaker 1: Beer Lake. Is it's just like a it's like a resort.
Speaker 1: I was told that there was some sort of a
Speaker 1: security PINpad that you could go into that club at anytime.
Speaker 1: I shouldn't call it a club like a bar anytime
Speaker 1: if you had a key. Yes, it's like you just
Speaker 1: take this place and just drop it in the middle
Speaker 1: and at lands on top of this mountain, because you
Speaker 1: have to have four rollers to get up to it. Actually,
Speaker 1: I dated a police officer years ago. I remember me
Speaker 1: and whom we're driving down one or four and we
Speaker 1: drove past Big Beer Lake. I remember whom telling me
Speaker 1: that's where all the cops go to get chicks and
Speaker 1: do illegal stuff. And this was in like nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 1: He told me this, and I thought he was blown
Speaker 1: smoke up my ass, but apparently he wasn't. So you
Speaker 1: can actually go up to it now and walk through it.
Speaker 1: There's rooms like you got the restaurant in the bar,
Speaker 1: then you've got your little rooms, kind of like a hotel. Frasier's.
Speaker 1: It's called Frasier's Chateau Club. Got it just my phone
Speaker 1: and it's got the address. Wow. We took the address
Speaker 1: and just put it into Google Maps, and the chateau
Speaker 1: seems to be located just south of Pikes In kind
Speaker 1: of on the way to Portsmith. It's way up on
Speaker 1: the top of this mountain looking over Lake Frasier, which
Speaker 1: is actually sometimes referred to as Big Bear Lake, but
Speaker 1: the technical name is Lake Frasier, hence the name Frasier's Chateau.
Speaker 1: We heard a lot about in the early days that
Speaker 1: you know, the rodents would go to Big Bear Lake
Speaker 1: in the summertime to go off road and tubing, and
Speaker 1: it was just a place to go as a family
Speaker 1: for fun. But when you look at this photo, you
Speaker 1: see at the very very top there's almost this fancy
Speaker 1: place kind of looking over the whole thing and stuff.
Speaker 1: Which I find interesting is if you look at this
Speaker 1: map which we'll post on our Instagram at kat Underscore Studios,
Speaker 1: there's almost this like back road that goes up to
Speaker 1: it that almost looks like a place where you could
Speaker 1: drive a four wheeler, which does remind me of how
Speaker 1: Angie described this place. It makes you wonder what was
Speaker 1: going up and down this road, like who was transporting
Speaker 1: what to the chateau from town. We found out that
Speaker 1: it was for sale in two thousand and one and
Speaker 1: it was owned by a man named Richard Fraser Jr.
Speaker 1: He then passed it on to Richard Fraser the third
Speaker 1: in the early nineties. We were also able to track
Speaker 1: down some videos of the chateau and its heyday. What
Speaker 1: you see are people enjoying the better things of life.
Speaker 1: There drinks, they're watching the Kentucky Derby. We were only
Speaker 1: going to win about a million dollars. The audio is
Speaker 1: a little hard to decipher. But what you just heard
Speaker 1: was one man saying, bring it on home to daddy,
Speaker 1: followed by another saying we were only going to win
Speaker 1: about a million dollars. Men are wearing tuxedos and they're
Speaker 1: gambling and drinking champagne. You know, it looks like one
Speaker 1: of those very fancy, upscale country clubs you would see
Speaker 1: in the movies. Everybody is living their best possible life.
Speaker 1: Makes you wonder what was happening up at the chateau.
Speaker 1: What's being alleged is that this chateau sort of serves
Speaker 1: as the center of yet another backstory in the massacre
Speaker 1: that could be connected. And again we're kind of learning
Speaker 1: about this real time also. But it's interesting when things
Speaker 1: that were considered rumor in previous seasons and we couldn't
Speaker 1: talk about it really now we're all shaping up to
Speaker 1: be a matter of fact, and the more people we
Speaker 1: speak to, the connective tissue becomes clearer and clearer. We
Speaker 1: were also able to uncover that Moran represented the owners
Speaker 1: of the chateau in a court case where they had
Speaker 1: an issue with a bank loan, So there's now no
Speaker 1: doubt that Michael Moran was tied to Frasier Chateau in
Speaker 1: some capacity. It just ties together all of these players
Speaker 1: that we've been talking about, Michael Moran, Frasier Chateau, the cops,
Speaker 1: the Wagners, the Rodents. They're all in the same world
Speaker 1: in ways that we never imagined. We've also found road
Speaker 1: in connections to the chateau. We've been told that Chris
Speaker 1: Senior might have been doing construction there, and it's confirmed
Speaker 1: that Frankie and Chris Junior worked there because they listed
Speaker 1: as their place of employment on Facebook, so there was
Speaker 1: an obvious connec action there for work. And we have
Speaker 1: heard that Chris Senior was also a craftsman and who
Speaker 1: used to do construction on a lot of patios in
Speaker 1: and around the area, and it's been speculated that perhaps
Speaker 1: he overheard something or saw some sort of nefarious behavior
Speaker 1: at the chateau and that people were afraid he was
Speaker 1: going to snitch, and maybe that's a factor into the massacre.
Speaker 1: But again we do know it's definitely playing a role,
Speaker 1: and quickly these dots are getting connected. Worth noting, though,
Speaker 1: that none of our research would suggest that any of
Speaker 1: the Rodents were connected to anything nefarious at Big Bear Lake.
Speaker 1: We called and confirmed with Big bear Lake workers that
Speaker 1: the chateau is now closed. We've learned that Big Bear
Speaker 1: Lake bought over three hundred acres of land fifteen years ago,
Speaker 1: which included the chateau. The current owners have nothing to
Speaker 1: do with the sha toe. According to the person we
Speaker 1: spoke with who has worked at Big Bear Lake for
Speaker 1: fifteen years, thieves who rode around on ATVs would come
Speaker 1: in and have completely destroyed what was left of the property.
Speaker 1: This same worker knew the Rodents and confirmed the work
Speaker 1: they did there. The whole thing is now boarded up,
Speaker 1: and Big Bear Lake's current owner actually plans on bulldozing
Speaker 1: the whole building in a few weeks. The Rodent men
Speaker 1: all working at Big bear Lake just speaks to what
Speaker 1: we've heard about them before, which is that they're all
Speaker 1: really hard workers and good with their hands. Before the murders,
Speaker 1: Chris Roden Senior worked as a carpenter and Dana Roden
Speaker 1: was working full time, sometimes even double time, as a nurse.
Speaker 1: The whole ring of people, the powers that be that
Speaker 1: are not doing what they should be doing, and that's
Speaker 1: why families in Pike County feel like we're forgotten. In
Speaker 1: the early two thousands. Most of the big companies in
Speaker 1: charge of plants and in the area left Pike County,
Speaker 1: and drug abuse was up at the time of the murders.
Speaker 1: The unemployment rate was also up at eight point six
Speaker 1: percent compared to five point one percent nationwide. You know,
Speaker 1: you've got people that are heard working, people that grew marijuana.
Speaker 1: It's so bizarre to people outside, you know, the rural
Speaker 1: communities that don't know the goings on. As reported at
Speaker 1: the time of the murders, the Rodents had two hundred
Speaker 1: marijuana plants with a street value of about half a
Speaker 1: million dollars. I thought the cartel did it. I really did,
Speaker 1: and I've talked to people in the area, he said,
Speaker 1: they swear the cartal did it. Cartel activity in the
Speaker 1: area is documented. In twenty ten, a large marijuana seizure
Speaker 1: just fifteen miles west of piked In was suspected of
Speaker 1: being linked to the Aloa cartel. Two years later, another
Speaker 1: pot buzz yielded solid evidence of a campsite set up
Speaker 1: by the Mexican Nationals. According to a Wagner family insider,
Speaker 1: it's been going on for years and there are rumors
Speaker 1: that the Wagners were wrapped up in it as well. Again,
Speaker 1: these are simply rumors about the Wagners being involved in
Speaker 1: the cartel that we have heard throughout the years. However,
Speaker 1: it seems likely that any potential connections between them were
Speaker 1: also investigated. Maybe they got mixed up with the cartel. Boal,
Speaker 1: I live in Chill Coffee and whenever you get down
Speaker 1: through Waverley, they're a big horse stable, and my whole
Speaker 1: wife and when I ate it was legit cartel lived there.
Speaker 1: My mom and died at several electric drops form and
Speaker 1: they would even tell you that the horses that they
Speaker 1: ship didn't had drugs in them. And that's why I
Speaker 1: said it was so close too. Then she's referring to
Speaker 1: the cartel location being close to Frederica and George Wagner
Speaker 1: Senior's horse farm. George Wagner Senior, which was Billy's father,
Speaker 1: was a drug dealer too, and he would put bags
Speaker 1: of dope in these female horses of vaginas and ship them.
Speaker 1: That's sound he transported as drugs. It was right in
Speaker 1: the back door. You know what about what lived right
Speaker 1: your bio and the horses. It threw me into that name,
Speaker 1: thinking of the horses with Freddie and them with horses,
Speaker 1: that Mexicans shipping the horses. You know, maybe there was
Speaker 1: something mere. I need to point out that we were
Speaker 1: unable to locate any records to support these allegations. Pikedon's
Speaker 1: location suits cartel operations in the Midwest perfectly. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of cartel in that area, and they grow in
Speaker 1: the hills. You know, it's refertile ground, and it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's easy to hide. It's also a known trafficking route
Speaker 1: in southern Ohio. US Route twenty three runs from the
Speaker 1: state line in Portsmouth north through piked In Columbus and
Speaker 1: eventually into Michigan. But before nineteen twenty six, Portsmouth was
Speaker 1: the southern terminus of the road. Three years later it
Speaker 1: was expanded, eventually running all the way to the Atlantic
Speaker 1: Ocean in Jacksonville, Florida. Now, the two lane divided expressway
Speaker 1: is outdated. Interstate seventy five gets most of the legitimate
Speaker 1: north south traffic in the area, which makes twenty three
Speaker 1: the preferred route of those trying to keep a low profile.
Speaker 1: Maybe it was some crazy thing like that, because you
Speaker 1: know who else would go in and kill a Holdian family.
Speaker 1: It just seems to need it. It was so personal
Speaker 1: the murders were to me, especially the way Chris or
Speaker 1: was killed, just how many times he was shot, Because
Speaker 1: if you're just doing this to get kustie of a child,
Speaker 1: you're just going to go in shoot the person one time,
Speaker 1: a couple times and then leave, not do what they
Speaker 1: did to him. When I read the autopsy, I mean
Speaker 1: he was shot in his extremity to torso his head.
Speaker 1: That's overkilled and to me, that's anger. The autopsies if
Speaker 1: you really look at him, if you really read between
Speaker 1: the lines and where the paragraphs leading up to the redactions,
Speaker 1: if you really look at it and go, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: that's what's redacted. There was marks in the groin area,
Speaker 1: you know, wounds in the groin area. Chris Senior and
Speaker 1: Frankie Rodent, it appears that their janitaria had been removed.
Speaker 1: They were tortured, they were mutilated. There was marks where
Speaker 1: not a typical knife would have been used. There was
Speaker 1: a lot of talk about do you know what a
Speaker 1: jaff is. A jaff is a weapon that's used by
Speaker 1: the cartel. Okay, what's it look like? It has like
Speaker 1: a claw with sharp blades like Edward scissorhand. You think
Speaker 1: the redacted sections of the autopsy point to that type
Speaker 1: of weapon maybe being used. Yes, we're going to take
Speaker 1: a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh. I'm
Speaker 1: Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends.
Speaker 1: Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few
Speaker 1: of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob.
Speaker 1: He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and
Speaker 1: he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't.
Speaker 1: He really wasn't. He chouked into the point she went unconscious.
Speaker 1: Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one
Speaker 1: time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us
Speaker 1: girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to
Speaker 1: pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice.
Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now,
Speaker 1: I'd spit on him. I would call him and I
Speaker 1: would say, I know you killed my sister. I will
Speaker 1: always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to
Speaker 1: The Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts from iHeart Podcasts. Whitney hell Is
Speaker 1: going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted
Speaker 1: a situation like this. I just thought it was just
Speaker 1: a really terrible, immoral thing, a line they won't cross.
Speaker 1: I was stunned, and I just said, no, we're killing people.
Speaker 1: You may never have to face that decision when you
Speaker 1: find yourself at that line. Thou its ricin, rs ricin,
Speaker 1: and somebody needs to just for once give everybody the
Speaker 1: whole truth. I'm like, this is evil and the only
Speaker 1: person who can sound the alarm is you. I wasn't
Speaker 1: just going to sit silently. Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These
Speaker 1: are the whistleblowers. If you are disloyal, things are going
Speaker 1: to happen to this week out disgrace to our gun.
Speaker 1: Evil play should be prosecuted when power corrupts, conscience is
Speaker 1: the last line of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to
Speaker 1: the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista,
Speaker 1: and host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember
Speaker 1: my award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's
Speaker 1: always time to touch incredible guests about important things. People
Speaker 1: like me have been screaming for years. We've got to
Speaker 1: watch the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what
Speaker 1: they're doing is evil. They will take things away. And
Speaker 1: I can only hope that Dobbs is that like Pearl
Speaker 1: Harbor moment, girl, you and I both know what it
Speaker 1: took to just get through the day in New York
Speaker 1: City and get home in one piece. And so the
Speaker 1: fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what
Speaker 1: I've achieved, you know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting
Speaker 1: around complaining about some bills. The only reason that you
Speaker 1: might think, as Chase said, that we're always miserable is
Speaker 1: because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it.
Speaker 1: Listen to The Laverne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Be sure
Speaker 1: to subscribe and share. How Rude Tanta Rito's is the
Speaker 1: full House rewatch podcast you've been waiting for. Each week,
Speaker 1: get together with iconic characters Stephanie Tanner and Kimmy Gibbler,
Speaker 1: also known as actresses Jody Sweeten and Andrea Barber, as
Speaker 1: they team up to relive every episode of your favorite
Speaker 1: Friday night comfort show. We spent our entire childhoods on
Speaker 1: a little show called Full House, playing freenemies but becoming
Speaker 1: besties whenever the cameras weren't rolling, And now, thirty five
Speaker 1: years later, it's our biggest adventure yet. Get ready for
Speaker 1: Jody and Andrea to tell all as they take an
Speaker 1: in depth book back at life in and around the
Speaker 1: Tanner Home from the very very beginning. So if you
Speaker 1: think you know everything there is to know about Full House,
Speaker 1: How Rude, We'll be reliving every moment with you, and
Speaker 1: we'll be joined by our Full House family, including all
Speaker 1: your favorites from one hundred and ninety two episodes. We'll
Speaker 1: reveal the hidden treasures you may have missed within the show,
Speaker 1: and we'll take a trip down memory lane together. Listen
Speaker 1: to How Rude Tanner Ritos on the iHeartRadio Appicable Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. The brutality of the
Speaker 1: Mexican cartel is widely known. It's possible all the power
Speaker 1: brokers in the orbit of the piked and massacre we're
Speaker 1: dealing with something larger and even more terrifying than what
Speaker 1: they had created themselves. Even Sheriff Reader, who was at
Speaker 1: the time in charge of enforcing the law in his
Speaker 1: dark corner of Ohio, was possibly an over his head.
Speaker 1: Here's Jeff talking about the possibilities of what happened the
Speaker 1: night of April twenty first, twenty sixteen. It all comes
Speaker 1: full circle back to Reader. When we initially got involved
Speaker 1: in the case, the theory out there was that it
Speaker 1: was the cartel, and that theory was put out there
Speaker 1: by Reader very early on in the investigation, and is
Speaker 1: what people thought happened for quite some time. I remember
Speaker 1: talking with Rodin, Kenny's daughter, and this was maybe a
Speaker 1: week or so after the murders happened, and it was
Speaker 1: when Charlie went on TV to do a pressor and
Speaker 1: said that he didn't know the Rodent And I remember
Speaker 1: Kinder looking at me and saying, I don't know why
Speaker 1: he's saying he doesn't know us. He knows who we are.
Speaker 1: I knew she just went through hell, and I didn't
Speaker 1: want to say, well, how does he know you or
Speaker 1: whatever you know? But I always kept that in the
Speaker 1: back of my mind, like it upset her that he
Speaker 1: said he didn't know them. Imagine them sitting around the
Speaker 1: table eating supper, plotting to kill eight people. It's just
Speaker 1: hard to grasp. Was there a larger and much more
Speaker 1: dangerous element pulling the strings from a distance with threats
Speaker 1: against the Wagner family and others in Piketon. And I'm
Speaker 1: just theorizing, but it's been said to me it's possible
Speaker 1: that Jake is lying because there's death threats in some
Speaker 1: way against them behind bars, which would kind of point
Speaker 1: to a larger issue, whether that's the marijuana operation or
Speaker 1: some fishy dealings, or maybe Billy was in other trouble
Speaker 1: and this was gonna be his way out. I think
Speaker 1: they're involved, but I believe the cartel was involved with them.
Speaker 1: It was too horrendous and happened too fast for everything
Speaker 1: to go down in a time frame that it supposedly
Speaker 1: went down in for having just two people to do it,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. The cartel zoomed in on him,
Speaker 1: and they let it be known that if you don't
Speaker 1: take a plea, we will kill your family, will kill
Speaker 1: the rest of your family. You know, they're wielding this
Speaker 1: proverbial sword over their heads because they are involved. I mean,
Speaker 1: out of nowhere, he took a plea. I do not
Speaker 1: think Jake could stand over Hannah and shoot her, especially
Speaker 1: with a baby next to her. Something is off, something
Speaker 1: is not right. It's important to note that George the
Speaker 1: fourth Wagner and his father, there Billy Wagner, have both
Speaker 1: pleaded not guilty and are presumed innocent. No one except
Speaker 1: for the people who will appear in court next month,
Speaker 1: knows the real truth. It seems like there are basically
Speaker 1: three ways this could play out. It's either, as their
Speaker 1: plea deals would suggest, Jake Wagner has confessed to killing five.
Speaker 1: Who are those five? We do not know. That would
Speaker 1: suggest that either Billy or George are responsible for the
Speaker 1: remaining three. Many accounts would suggest that George was not
Speaker 1: a trigger puller, and that seems to be their first
Speaker 1: line of defense. So what we know for a fact
Speaker 1: is that George Wagner's trial is set to start August
Speaker 1: twenty nine. We're going to learn a lot more when
Speaker 1: George's trial actually begins and we learn more about the
Speaker 1: prosecution's case, But for right now, all we can do
Speaker 1: is sort of guess what might happen, and what's being
Speaker 1: reported so far is that Angela Wagner was not present
Speaker 1: at the time time of the murders. Jake Wagner has
Speaker 1: confessed to committing five, and we can sort of surmise
Speaker 1: that because George Wagner think he didn't kill anyone, that
Speaker 1: Billy Wagner must have killed the other three. This theory
Speaker 1: plays well into what the plea deals have said so far,
Speaker 1: but there are still so many other theories to impact.
Speaker 1: Is it possible that there's another layer to this altogether,
Speaker 1: and the Wagners were in fact tied into something nefarious,
Speaker 1: whether that's the cartel or not, and there was this
Speaker 1: potential of a custody battle to heat up. And on
Speaker 1: top of that, there does seem to be corruption behind
Speaker 1: the scenes. We know that. So at this point there's
Speaker 1: been so many pieces of the puzzle held closed by
Speaker 1: the prosecution in the defense for obvious reasons. They want
Speaker 1: to keep their case sacred. But that's about to change
Speaker 1: once George's trials start. It shapes everything because you'd have
Speaker 1: to imagine that Billy Wagner's trial is just behind it
Speaker 1: and their stories all better match, or is there an
Speaker 1: entirely new story that's evolving real time. We're likely going
Speaker 1: to pause just for a stretch so we can have
Speaker 1: jurious selection happen and really be with you when things
Speaker 1: start to heat up. I think there's a curveball coming.
Speaker 1: Whether or not Angela Wagner was present at any or
Speaker 1: all of the Road family houses on the night of
Speaker 1: the murders has been a huge point of contention. Added
Speaker 1: confusion is that we've read conflicting reports based on what
Speaker 1: was reported on and what we've seen in court. What
Speaker 1: we've understood and have reported on this podcast that Angela
Speaker 1: was at home babysitting of the murderers. However, in looking
Speaker 1: back one more time through court transcripts, we found conflicting
Speaker 1: reports that said Angela had moved two of the bodies.
Speaker 1: To shed some light on this, we spoke to Fox
Speaker 1: nineteen legal analyst Mike Allen. She pled to conspiracy to
Speaker 1: commit aggravated murder, which indicates to me that she was
Speaker 1: not there and didn't participate in it. Also several counts
Speaker 1: of aggravated burglary. Now that's trespassing in an occupied structure
Speaker 1: or a structure that could be occupied. But the real
Speaker 1: thing here is tampering with evidence. I checked with Mike Shell,
Speaker 1: he's a reporter here at Fox nineteen. He's been following
Speaker 1: this thing closer than anyone. I said, is there any
Speaker 1: indication that Angela did participate in the homicide? And he
Speaker 1: said no. His understanding was that she was at home
Speaker 1: with a baby or baby. So I think the gist
Speaker 1: of what she pled to is that she was not
Speaker 1: there when it happened, but conspired before the fact. I
Speaker 1: don't know why they're so close mouth about this, but
Speaker 1: that would be my speculation. You mentioned the dumping tight lips.
Speaker 1: Is that standard or not standard? What do you make
Speaker 1: of the prosecution not releasing a lot of information. You know,
Speaker 1: they want to keep a lid on it because it's
Speaker 1: just got so many tentacles and goes in so many
Speaker 1: different directions, and I think they're probably inundated with media request.
Speaker 1: But I will say this, it's highly unusual. As a
Speaker 1: matter of fact, I don't ever remember a trial that
Speaker 1: I've been involved with, or that I've even heard of
Speaker 1: here in Hamilton County where that's happened. I mean, the
Speaker 1: every document that's filed in the Clerk of Courts office
Speaker 1: is put online unless that orders it's sealed and judge
Speaker 1: is here, and don't routinely do that unless there's a
Speaker 1: legitimate law enforcement reason to do it. So that's got
Speaker 1: me baff all. I tell you, I'm sure would make
Speaker 1: everybody job easier. Let's stop here for another break. Oh.
Speaker 1: I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting a podcast called The
Speaker 1: girl Friends. Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob.
Speaker 1: He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and
Speaker 1: he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't.
Speaker 1: He really wasn't. He choked into the point miss she
Speaker 1: went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything, but only takes
Speaker 1: the one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob,
Speaker 1: us girlfriends know how to fight back on him. To
Speaker 1: pay for his crime, he needed to be put to justice.
Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now,
Speaker 1: I'd spit on him. I would call him and I
Speaker 1: would say, I know you killed my sister. I will
Speaker 1: always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to
Speaker 1: the girl Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart Podcasts. Whitney hell
Speaker 1: is going on here? Everyone has their limits. I'd never
Speaker 1: confronted a situation like this. I just thought it was
Speaker 1: just a really terrible, immoral thing, a line they won't cross.
Speaker 1: I was stunned, and I just said, no, we're killing people.
Speaker 1: You may never have to face that decision when you
Speaker 1: find yourself at that lineouts ricin aren't ricin. And somebody
Speaker 1: needs to just for once give everybody the whole truth.
Speaker 1: Probably this is evil, and the only person who can
Speaker 1: sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just going to
Speaker 1: sit silently. Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are the whisp Blowers.
Speaker 1: If you are disloyal thinks are going to happen to
Speaker 1: speak out disgrace to our gun, evil, be prosecute when
Speaker 1: power corrupts, conscience is the last line of defense. I'm
Speaker 1: Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. My name's
Speaker 1: Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, and host of
Speaker 1: The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember my award winning
Speaker 1: first season. I've been pretty busy. There's always time to
Speaker 1: touch incredible guests about important things. People like me have
Speaker 1: been screaming for years. We've got to watch the Supreme Court.
Speaker 1: What they're doing is wrong. What they're doing as evil.
Speaker 1: They will take things away. And I can only hope
Speaker 1: that Dobbs is that like Pearl Harbor moment or you
Speaker 1: and I both know what it took to just get
Speaker 1: through the day in New York City and get home
Speaker 1: in one piece. And so the fact that we're here
Speaker 1: and what you've achieved and what I've achieved, you know,
Speaker 1: that's momentous. It's not just sitting around complaining about some bills.
Speaker 1: The only reason that you might think, as Chase said,
Speaker 1: that we're always miserable is because people are constantly attacking
Speaker 1: us and we're constantly noticing it. Listen to the Laverne
Speaker 1: Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcast. Be sure to subscribe and share.
Speaker 1: She's a Hollywood Western She's Jack Kerouac, but in a
Speaker 1: nap dress with braids. She is one of the most
Speaker 1: important American children's authors of the twentieth century. She's the
Speaker 1: basis for a television show still watched around the world.
Speaker 1: Somebody somewhere is watching a little les than the room
Speaker 1: She's been called a hero, a racist, a feminist, and
Speaker 1: a propagandist. I think the harm is too great because
Speaker 1: it's just one more thing that Native children have to endure.
Speaker 1: She is Laura Ingles Wilder, author of the book series
Speaker 1: Little House on the Prairie. As a kid, I idolized Laura,
Speaker 1: and last summer I went on the road in search
Speaker 1: of the real Laura. We're literally on the prairie. What
Speaker 1: I found was a complicated person alongside the complicated country
Speaker 1: she represents. I'm Glennis McNicol and this is Wilder. Listen
Speaker 1: to Wilder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Just when we think we know
Speaker 1: everything about this case and things are wrapping up, we
Speaker 1: find something else out and more information comes out, and
Speaker 1: it's clear that with the Rodin and the Wagner case,
Speaker 1: that's really expect the unexpected. Ultimately, though, eight members of
Speaker 1: the Rodin, Manly and Gilly family were killed in their homes,
Speaker 1: and I think I speak for the entire team here
Speaker 1: at Katsy Studios, but getting to the bottom of what
Speaker 1: happened is really in the name of finding justice for
Speaker 1: the family. We hope to honor not only the victims,
Speaker 1: but also the lives and the people that they left behind.
Speaker 1: In speaking with their family members, loved ones, and friends,
Speaker 1: it's really hard to move on without knowing exactly what
Speaker 1: happened that night. And with the trials finally coming up,
Speaker 1: the hope is that we can at least give some
Speaker 1: sort of end to this horrible chapter of their lives.
Speaker 1: While we wait for jury selection and the trial of
Speaker 1: George the Fourth to begin, we will continue to follow leads.
Speaker 1: We are humbled beyond measure with what the community of
Speaker 1: Pike County and family members have shared with us. For now,
Speaker 1: we leave you with a message we've recently received from
Speaker 1: one of the surviving road and family members. Just know
Speaker 1: that my family, they were good people, loving and kind,
Speaker 1: very protective, would help anyone in need. I believe in loyalty,
Speaker 1: hard work, and honesty. If you did not honor these,
Speaker 1: then you were not anyone. Family, the Bible and God.
Speaker 1: That's what they live for. Next week's episode will be
Speaker 1: the final episode of this current season. It's one we
Speaker 1: recorded live in front of an audience at Crime Con
Speaker 1: in Las Vegas, Nevada. After that will pause before the
Speaker 1: Wagner Trials heat Up. If you're enjoying The Pikes and Massacre,
Speaker 1: listen to our other hit series Crazy and Love. New
Speaker 1: episodes there every Tuesday wherever you get your podcasts. For
Speaker 1: more information and case photos, follow us on Instagram at
Speaker 1: Katie Underscore Studios. The Piked and Massacres produced by Stephanie Lydecker,
Speaker 1: Jeff Shane, Chris Greeves, Scott de Graw and me Wertney Armstrong.
Speaker 1: Editing and sound designed by Jeff Ti Music by Jared Aston,
Speaker 1: audio mixing by Ken Novak. The Pikes and Massacre is
Speaker 1: a production of Katie Studios and iHeartRadio. For more podcasts
Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows. I'm Carol Fisher and
Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The girl Friends. It's Las Vegas,
Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find
Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt
Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelor's one of them one of the
Speaker 1: spot there in bout On paper, he was perfect, but
Speaker 1: in reality, this guy's a wacko. He choked into the
Speaker 1: point she went unconscious. I would call him and I
Speaker 1: would say, I know you killed my sister. You can
Speaker 1: listen to the girl Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple
Speaker 1: podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Free
Speaker 1: and I'm rthy. We have spent the last twenty years
Speaker 1: building and working at some of the largest companies in
Speaker 1: the world. We worked with some remarkable people, Rob mclenny.
Speaker 1: When I see the people of Wrexham, I grew up
Speaker 1: exactly like them. Check out the Arth and Tree Arm Show.
Speaker 1: That is a R D HI and s R I
Speaker 1: R A M show. Listen to the Art Instree Arm
Speaker 1: Show on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcast This is the story of a
Speaker 1: man who's fascinated me. His name was Sweet Daddy Grace,
Speaker 1: and that's a name you don't forget. He was a
Speaker 1: visionary who built a fortune as a black man during
Speaker 1: Jim Crow during the Depression, but today not many people
Speaker 1: know about him. The race sort of wiped out, and
Speaker 1: I wonder if this was done intentionally. Listen to Sweet
Speaker 1: Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. I'm will daily. For years have
Speaker 1: been on the road playing shows and seeing America through
Speaker 1: live music. This summer, I'll hit the stage who Season
Speaker 1: two of Sound of Our Town ten cities, twelve episodes
Speaker 1: every other Thursday, we explore the live music, venues and
Speaker 1: culture of a new American city. With each new episode,
Speaker 1: our tour continues into the kind of venues you want
Speaker 1: to get to when you landed in Detroit, Providence, Denver,
Speaker 1: or Seattle. Listen to Sound of Our Town on the
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.