WEBVTT - House On A Hill 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.920 The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:09.240 themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters 0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:13.160 because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:15.400 He just walked around shot all the black people. The 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:18.440 cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.160 out how to go on and how to compete. I 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:23.840 wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:28.640 Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.720 or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:36.800 I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.200 it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:44.560 a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:48.040 to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:53.239 Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality, 0:00:53.440 --> 0:00:58.080 this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:00.560 I would call him and I would say, I know 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.520 you killed my sister. You can listen to The Girlfriends 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:07.680 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:11.840 your podcasts. Hi, I'm free and I'm rthy. We have 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:14.760 spent the last twenty years building and working at some 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:17.319 of the largest companies in the world. We worked with 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:20.640 some remarkable people. Rob mcalinney. When I see the people 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:23.200 of Wrexham, I grew up exactly like them. Check Out 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:26.480 the Arth and Tree Arm show. That is a R 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:31.240 D HI and s R I R A M show. 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:34.400 Listen to the Art Instrie Arm Show on the iHeart 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:38.119 Radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:42.040 This is the story of a man who's fascinated me. 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:45.759 His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and that's a name 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:49.200 you don't forget. He was a visionary who built a 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:53.480 fortune as a black man during Jim Crow during the Depression, 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:57.400 but today not many people know about him. The race 0:01:57.760 --> 0:02:00.280 sort of wiped out, and I wonder if this was 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:04.880 done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on the iHeartRadio app, 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:12.120 Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. To me, 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:15.800 it maybe had something to do with that one little girl. 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:18.320 But to me, there's a bigger read. You can't tell 0:02:18.400 --> 0:02:20.320 me that day won't be in and heeled eight people 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:26.120 over one child. It's just so bizarre that there's so 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:30.640 many twists and turns. It's mind boggling, and it's like 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:34.160 a powerful trying to put the pieces together. It's just 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:38.160 got so many tentacles and goes in so many different directions. 0:02:39.600 --> 0:02:42.560 Nobody has said anything other than he was shy and 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:48.080 in love with Hannah Rode, literally in love, like something 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:56.680 is off. This is the Pike of Massacre, returned to 0:02:56.760 --> 0:03:01.480 Pike County season three episode hen House on a Hill. 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:06.400 I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie's Studios with 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:10.640 Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane. In researching this story, we 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:14.160 sometimes find ourselves mired in details that lead to dead ends. 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:18.440 In this episode, before George Wagner the fourth Trial, we're 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:20.640 stepping back to take an eagle eye view on the 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:24.960 dark power dynamics at play in southern Ohio. We have 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:27.799 uncovered some shocking new theories about what might have led 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:30.480 to the grizzly murders of the eight members of the 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:35.160 Rodent family. Here's Stephanie and Jeff. After following the story 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:37.400 for years, you really start to see that there are 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:40.560 sort of two piked In's in one piked In. There 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:43.320 are people simply trying to live, work and put food 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:45.880 on the table for their family. And on the other hands, 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:48.760 there's a lot of people in power who are misusing it, 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:51.920 and quite a few of these individuals have used their 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:57.040 power for personal gain period, often with brutal consequences for 0:03:57.120 --> 0:04:02.600 those who get caught in the crossfire. No one exemplifies 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:06.600 this more than Michael Moran, who we know is a 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:09.400 local Portsmouth lawyer who was accused of doing all sorts 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:14.840 of heinous things. As we've discussed in previous episodes, Michael 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:20.320 Moran preyed upon vulnerable female clients, often prostitutes and drug users. 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:25.000 He lured them in with inexpensive legal representation than trapped 0:04:25.040 --> 0:04:29.320 him into sexual slavery and worse. His victims were people 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:34.120 like Megan Lancaster, who went missing in twenty thirteen. Angie 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:36.960 Montgomery knew her and her sister in law, Katie, who 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:41.720 spent years trying to find Megan. Here's Angie the way 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:45.440 Katie described Megan to me. She looked at me and 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:47.400 she was like, I knew she would find a way 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:49.680 to get a hold of somebody. I knew she would. 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:52.599 That's what I always you know, it was in the 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:54.919 back of her mind. I knew she would find a 0:04:54.920 --> 0:05:01.840 way to save something to somebody during her tireless crusade 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:05.039 to find out what happened to Megan. Katie Lancaster also 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:07.960 fell victim to the pressures of life in Pike County. 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:13.760 I'm going to be honest with you, she was easing. 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:16.880 I didn't know it. Hern her husband went through hell 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:20.200 right before she died. And she also told me that 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:23.480 the court told her to stop with her Megan's campaign. 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:30.200 She was found in an area in Portsmouth it's known 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:32.799 for drug daily and she was found in a house 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:39.160 having apparently overdosed. Right, that's the same area that Moran's 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:44.520 office was in her right, Right, that's the road. Here's 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:47.719 Jeff speaking with Sophie, an acquaintance of the Wagner family. 0:05:48.600 --> 0:05:51.040 We spoke with her in an earlier episode, but as 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:53.840 a reminder, she's the one who alerted us to ties 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:59.400 between Michael Moran and Angela Wagner's father, Pug Carter. It's 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:01.360 not a surprise to me that her dad had him 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:04.040 as a lawyer. That was news to me. How did 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:06.279 you find that out? You'd probably send you the link 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:08.760 to it. We talked about Michael Moran on the podcast, 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:12.359 but kind of as an outlier. It just spoke to 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:15.599 crimes that were happening in the community. But this really 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:20.240 connects Michael Moran to the Wagner family. Yes, and Auntie 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:22.800 was always really close with her dad. From what I 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.000 remember is that there was like an undercover seeing where 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:27.440 the police were going to his house and purchasing and 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:31.239 selling drugs. So actual drug bust is how he got caught. 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:38.640 Another local sleuth who goes by j J, confirms the story. 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:43.479 Everybody there in that little town of South Webster knew 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:47.360 what he was doing. I mean, he was their supplier. 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:52.400 Is it just mainly pot? Now we're talking about her 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:59.360 part drugs like heroin and cocaine, oxtic CoDown. He even 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:02.480 did time prison for his drug dealings. He was a 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:05.159 want to be gangster, if you will. So that's what 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:07.800 she grew up in. That's what she was familiar with. 0:07:08.400 --> 0:07:13.200 Billy Wagner's aunts lived across the street from the cars. 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:19.440 That's how they had to have met. For a defense 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:22.800 lawyer like Michael Moran, Pug Carter was probably a legitimate 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:27.280 source of study income, but he also recognized another possible 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:30.160 stream of cash from his less well off female clients. 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:36.160 Michael Moran exploited the power dynamic ruthlessly, often abusing the 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:42.240 women he lured in and calling them the product he 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:44.920 turned around and sold their services right back to the 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:48.720 most powerful and Pike County. It's rumored that some of 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:50.960 this took place in a house on a hill just 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:57.680 south of Piketon. Here's Stephanie speaking with Angie Montgomery. This 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:01.080 is just, you know, frankly rumor in speculation that there's 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:06.480 a place that was this house slash bar, and officials, 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:10.040 people that worked for the local police would go there 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:12.960 for drinks, and sometimes there would be girls there and 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:17.480 maybe not such great behavior would happen behind closed doors. Yes, 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:19.120 and if you give me two seconds, I'll give you 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:21.080 the name in the place. It's on top of Big 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:24.000 Beer Lake. Is it's just like a it's like a resort. 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:25.680 I was told that there was some sort of a 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:29.240 security PINpad that you could go into that club at anytime. 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:32.520 I shouldn't call it a club like a bar anytime 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:35.920 if you had a key. Yes, it's like you just 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:38.760 take this place and just drop it in the middle 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:41.200 and at lands on top of this mountain, because you 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:44.439 have to have four rollers to get up to it. Actually, 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:49.120 I dated a police officer years ago. I remember me 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:52.160 and whom we're driving down one or four and we 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:55.360 drove past Big Beer Lake. I remember whom telling me 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:58.080 that's where all the cops go to get chicks and 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:03.480 do illegal stuff. And this was in like nineteen ninety nine. 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:05.520 He told me this, and I thought he was blown 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:10.080 smoke up my ass, but apparently he wasn't. So you 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:12.720 can actually go up to it now and walk through it. 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:16.959 There's rooms like you got the restaurant in the bar, 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:21.760 then you've got your little rooms, kind of like a hotel. Frasier's. 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:28.319 It's called Frasier's Chateau Club. Got it just my phone 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:32.959 and it's got the address. Wow. We took the address 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:35.680 and just put it into Google Maps, and the chateau 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:38.640 seems to be located just south of Pikes In kind 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:41.520 of on the way to Portsmith. It's way up on 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:44.760 the top of this mountain looking over Lake Frasier, which 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:47.920 is actually sometimes referred to as Big Bear Lake, but 0:09:47.960 --> 0:09:52.200 the technical name is Lake Frasier, hence the name Frasier's Chateau. 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:55.520 We heard a lot about in the early days that 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:57.880 you know, the rodents would go to Big Bear Lake 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:02.360 in the summertime to go off road and tubing, and 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:04.320 it was just a place to go as a family 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:07.120 for fun. But when you look at this photo, you 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:12.160 see at the very very top there's almost this fancy 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:15.280 place kind of looking over the whole thing and stuff. 0:10:15.320 --> 0:10:16.800 Which I find interesting is if you look at this 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:20.280 map which we'll post on our Instagram at kat Underscore Studios, 0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:23.440 there's almost this like back road that goes up to 0:10:23.559 --> 0:10:27.280 it that almost looks like a place where you could 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:29.920 drive a four wheeler, which does remind me of how 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:33.200 Angie described this place. It makes you wonder what was 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:36.520 going up and down this road, like who was transporting 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:42.880 what to the chateau from town. We found out that 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:44.960 it was for sale in two thousand and one and 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:47.040 it was owned by a man named Richard Fraser Jr. 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:50.160 He then passed it on to Richard Fraser the third 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:52.800 in the early nineties. We were also able to track 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:56.880 down some videos of the chateau and its heyday. What 0:10:57.000 --> 0:10:59.520 you see are people enjoying the better things of life. 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:10.400 There drinks, they're watching the Kentucky Derby. We were only 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:16.400 going to win about a million dollars. The audio is 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:19.280 a little hard to decipher. But what you just heard 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:21.840 was one man saying, bring it on home to daddy, 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:25.240 followed by another saying we were only going to win 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:29.040 about a million dollars. Men are wearing tuxedos and they're 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:32.560 gambling and drinking champagne. You know, it looks like one 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:35.400 of those very fancy, upscale country clubs you would see 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:39.440 in the movies. Everybody is living their best possible life. 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:41.800 Makes you wonder what was happening up at the chateau. 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:46.240 What's being alleged is that this chateau sort of serves 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:51.360 as the center of yet another backstory in the massacre 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:55.840 that could be connected. And again we're kind of learning 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:59.440 about this real time also. But it's interesting when things 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:02.440 that were considered rumor in previous seasons and we couldn't 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:05.360 talk about it really now we're all shaping up to 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:09.880 be a matter of fact, and the more people we 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:13.920 speak to, the connective tissue becomes clearer and clearer. We 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:17.480 were also able to uncover that Moran represented the owners 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:19.840 of the chateau in a court case where they had 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:22.080 an issue with a bank loan, So there's now no 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:25.200 doubt that Michael Moran was tied to Frasier Chateau in 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:30.360 some capacity. It just ties together all of these players 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:34.280 that we've been talking about, Michael Moran, Frasier Chateau, the cops, 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:36.959 the Wagners, the Rodents. They're all in the same world 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:42.800 in ways that we never imagined. We've also found road 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:46.800 in connections to the chateau. We've been told that Chris 0:12:46.800 --> 0:12:49.440 Senior might have been doing construction there, and it's confirmed 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:52.520 that Frankie and Chris Junior worked there because they listed 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:59.079 as their place of employment on Facebook, so there was 0:12:59.120 --> 0:13:01.640 an obvious connec action there for work. And we have 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:04.800 heard that Chris Senior was also a craftsman and who 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:07.800 used to do construction on a lot of patios in 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:11.880 and around the area, and it's been speculated that perhaps 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:17.040 he overheard something or saw some sort of nefarious behavior 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:21.560 at the chateau and that people were afraid he was 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:25.400 going to snitch, and maybe that's a factor into the massacre. 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:29.320 But again we do know it's definitely playing a role, 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:33.040 and quickly these dots are getting connected. Worth noting, though, 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:35.960 that none of our research would suggest that any of 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:39.600 the Rodents were connected to anything nefarious at Big Bear Lake. 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.400 We called and confirmed with Big bear Lake workers that 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:51.880 the chateau is now closed. We've learned that Big Bear 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:55.200 Lake bought over three hundred acres of land fifteen years ago, 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:59.400 which included the chateau. The current owners have nothing to 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:02.800 do with the sha toe. According to the person we 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:05.120 spoke with who has worked at Big Bear Lake for 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:09.400 fifteen years, thieves who rode around on ATVs would come 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:13.080 in and have completely destroyed what was left of the property. 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:16.960 This same worker knew the Rodents and confirmed the work 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:20.160 they did there. The whole thing is now boarded up, 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:23.560 and Big Bear Lake's current owner actually plans on bulldozing 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:28.080 the whole building in a few weeks. The Rodent men 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:30.560 all working at Big bear Lake just speaks to what 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:32.480 we've heard about them before, which is that they're all 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:36.280 really hard workers and good with their hands. Before the murders, 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:39.800 Chris Roden Senior worked as a carpenter and Dana Roden 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:43.440 was working full time, sometimes even double time, as a nurse. 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:48.120 The whole ring of people, the powers that be that 0:14:48.280 --> 0:14:51.480 are not doing what they should be doing, and that's 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:56.240 why families in Pike County feel like we're forgotten. In 0:14:56.280 --> 0:14:58.800 the early two thousands. Most of the big companies in 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:02.640 charge of plants and in the area left Pike County, 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:05.680 and drug abuse was up at the time of the murders. 0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:10.520 The unemployment rate was also up at eight point six 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:18.880 percent compared to five point one percent nationwide. You know, 0:15:18.920 --> 0:15:21.920 you've got people that are heard working, people that grew marijuana. 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:27.880 It's so bizarre to people outside, you know, the rural 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:33.120 communities that don't know the goings on. As reported at 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:35.600 the time of the murders, the Rodents had two hundred 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:38.480 marijuana plants with a street value of about half a 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:44.440 million dollars. I thought the cartel did it. I really did, 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:47.280 and I've talked to people in the area, he said, 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:51.280 they swear the cartal did it. Cartel activity in the 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:55.960 area is documented. In twenty ten, a large marijuana seizure 0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:59.120 just fifteen miles west of piked In was suspected of 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:05.720 being linked to the Aloa cartel. Two years later, another 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:09.080 pot buzz yielded solid evidence of a campsite set up 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:14.560 by the Mexican Nationals. According to a Wagner family insider, 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:18.520 it's been going on for years and there are rumors 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:23.480 that the Wagners were wrapped up in it as well. Again, 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:26.280 these are simply rumors about the Wagners being involved in 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:29.640 the cartel that we have heard throughout the years. However, 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:32.840 it seems likely that any potential connections between them were 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:37.920 also investigated. Maybe they got mixed up with the cartel. Boal, 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:40.960 I live in Chill Coffee and whenever you get down 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:44.080 through Waverley, they're a big horse stable, and my whole 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:48.520 wife and when I ate it was legit cartel lived there. 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.800 My mom and died at several electric drops form and 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.600 they would even tell you that the horses that they 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:57.320 ship didn't had drugs in them. And that's why I 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:01.960 said it was so close too. Then she's referring to 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:05.840 the cartel location being close to Frederica and George Wagner 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:11.600 Senior's horse farm. George Wagner Senior, which was Billy's father, 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:15.880 was a drug dealer too, and he would put bags 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:20.720 of dope in these female horses of vaginas and ship them. 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:24.960 That's sound he transported as drugs. It was right in 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:27.760 the back door. You know what about what lived right 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:30.720 your bio and the horses. It threw me into that name, 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.480 thinking of the horses with Freddie and them with horses, 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:36.680 that Mexicans shipping the horses. You know, maybe there was 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:41.800 something mere. I need to point out that we were 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:46.840 unable to locate any records to support these allegations. Pikedon's 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:51.720 location suits cartel operations in the Midwest perfectly. There's a 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:55.000 lot of cartel in that area, and they grow in 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:57.520 the hills. You know, it's refertile ground, and it's you know, 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:02.359 it's easy to hide. It's also a known trafficking route 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:06.280 in southern Ohio. US Route twenty three runs from the 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:10.159 state line in Portsmouth north through piked In Columbus and 0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:15.159 eventually into Michigan. But before nineteen twenty six, Portsmouth was 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:20.240 the southern terminus of the road. Three years later it 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:23.280 was expanded, eventually running all the way to the Atlantic 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:28.440 Ocean in Jacksonville, Florida. Now, the two lane divided expressway 0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:32.760 is outdated. Interstate seventy five gets most of the legitimate 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:36.480 north south traffic in the area, which makes twenty three 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:39.720 the preferred route of those trying to keep a low profile. 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:45.600 Maybe it was some crazy thing like that, because you 0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:47.639 know who else would go in and kill a Holdian family. 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:52.679 It just seems to need it. It was so personal 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:58.000 the murders were to me, especially the way Chris or 0:18:58.160 --> 0:19:02.520 was killed, just how many times he was shot, Because 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:04.680 if you're just doing this to get kustie of a child, 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:07.440 you're just going to go in shoot the person one time, 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:09.840 a couple times and then leave, not do what they 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:11.879 did to him. When I read the autopsy, I mean 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:14.880 he was shot in his extremity to torso his head. 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:22.880 That's overkilled and to me, that's anger. The autopsies if 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:25.639 you really look at him, if you really read between 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:30.480 the lines and where the paragraphs leading up to the redactions, 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:35.000 if you really look at it and go, oh, okay, 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:39.000 that's what's redacted. There was marks in the groin area, 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:42.560 you know, wounds in the groin area. Chris Senior and 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:49.000 Frankie Rodent, it appears that their janitaria had been removed. 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:56.680 They were tortured, they were mutilated. There was marks where 0:19:57.200 --> 0:20:01.719 not a typical knife would have been used. There was 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:04.320 a lot of talk about do you know what a 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:09.000 jaff is. A jaff is a weapon that's used by 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:17.080 the cartel. Okay, what's it look like? It has like 0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:23.040 a claw with sharp blades like Edward scissorhand. You think 0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:27.200 the redacted sections of the autopsy point to that type 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:32.320 of weapon maybe being used. Yes, we're going to take 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:38.000 a break. We'll be back in a moment. Oh. I'm 0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:41.480 Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:44.920 Back in the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:48.960 of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:55.159 He spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:59.760 he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. 0:21:00.119 --> 0:21:05.000 He really wasn't. He chouked into the point she went unconscious. 0:21:05.400 --> 0:21:09.520 Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:13.560 time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:16.480 girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:20.040 pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:21.679 I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:24.000 I'd spit on him. I would call him and I 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:26.840 would say, I know you killed my sister. I will 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:29.919 always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:34.560 The Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:39.200 you get your podcasts from iHeart Podcasts. Whitney hell Is 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:43.160 going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:45.119 a situation like this. I just thought it was just 0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:48.479 a really terrible, immoral thing, a line they won't cross. 0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:52.159 I was stunned, and I just said, no, we're killing people. 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:55.439 You may never have to face that decision when you 0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:58.879 find yourself at that line. Thou its ricin, rs ricin, 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:02.280 and somebody needs to just for once give everybody the 0:22:02.320 --> 0:22:06.680 whole truth. I'm like, this is evil and the only 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:10.400 person who can sound the alarm is you. I wasn't 0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:15.159 just going to sit silently. Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:18.399 are the whistleblowers. If you are disloyal, things are going 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:20.680 to happen to this week out disgrace to our gun. 0:22:20.800 --> 0:22:26.800 Evil play should be prosecuted when power corrupts, conscience is 0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:30.960 the last line of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to 0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:35.320 the Whistleblowers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:45.720 you get your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, 0:22:45.880 --> 0:22:48.800 and host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember 0:22:48.880 --> 0:22:53.240 my award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's 0:22:53.280 --> 0:22:56.760 always time to touch incredible guests about important things. People 0:22:56.800 --> 0:22:58.960 like me have been screaming for years. We've got to 0:22:59.040 --> 0:23:01.480 watch the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what 0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:04.320 they're doing is evil. They will take things away. And 0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:07.200 I can only hope that Dobbs is that like Pearl 0:23:07.240 --> 0:23:09.720 Harbor moment, girl, you and I both know what it 0:23:09.800 --> 0:23:11.920 took to just get through the day in New York 0:23:11.960 --> 0:23:15.040 City and get home in one piece. And so the 0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:17.480 fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what 0:23:17.640 --> 0:23:22.000 I've achieved, you know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting 0:23:22.000 --> 0:23:24.639 around complaining about some bills. The only reason that you 0:23:24.720 --> 0:23:27.600 might think, as Chase said, that we're always miserable is 0:23:27.640 --> 0:23:30.840 because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it. 0:23:31.200 --> 0:23:34.080 Listen to The Laverne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, 0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:38.680 Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Be sure 0:23:38.720 --> 0:23:45.040 to subscribe and share. How Rude Tanta Rito's is the 0:23:45.040 --> 0:23:48.160 full House rewatch podcast you've been waiting for. Each week, 0:23:48.280 --> 0:23:51.680 get together with iconic characters Stephanie Tanner and Kimmy Gibbler, 0:23:51.960 --> 0:23:55.720 also known as actresses Jody Sweeten and Andrea Barber, as 0:23:55.760 --> 0:23:58.680 they team up to relive every episode of your favorite 0:23:58.720 --> 0:24:02.119 Friday night comfort show. We spent our entire childhoods on 0:24:02.160 --> 0:24:05.359 a little show called Full House, playing freenemies but becoming 0:24:05.400 --> 0:24:08.480 besties whenever the cameras weren't rolling, And now, thirty five 0:24:08.520 --> 0:24:11.080 years later, it's our biggest adventure yet. Get ready for 0:24:11.200 --> 0:24:13.640 Jody and Andrea to tell all as they take an 0:24:13.640 --> 0:24:15.800 in depth book back at life in and around the 0:24:15.840 --> 0:24:19.239 Tanner Home from the very very beginning. So if you 0:24:19.320 --> 0:24:21.760 think you know everything there is to know about Full House, 0:24:22.240 --> 0:24:25.439 How Rude, We'll be reliving every moment with you, and 0:24:25.800 --> 0:24:28.120 we'll be joined by our Full House family, including all 0:24:28.160 --> 0:24:31.000 your favorites from one hundred and ninety two episodes. We'll 0:24:31.000 --> 0:24:33.399 reveal the hidden treasures you may have missed within the show, 0:24:33.440 --> 0:24:35.840 and we'll take a trip down memory lane together. Listen 0:24:35.880 --> 0:24:39.200 to How Rude Tanner Ritos on the iHeartRadio Appicable Podcasts, 0:24:39.280 --> 0:24:48.679 or wherever you get your podcasts. The brutality of the 0:24:48.720 --> 0:24:55.159 Mexican cartel is widely known. It's possible all the power 0:24:55.240 --> 0:24:58.120 brokers in the orbit of the piked and massacre we're 0:24:58.160 --> 0:25:01.359 dealing with something larger and even more terrifying than what 0:25:01.440 --> 0:25:06.640 they had created themselves. Even Sheriff Reader, who was at 0:25:06.680 --> 0:25:08.840 the time in charge of enforcing the law in his 0:25:08.960 --> 0:25:12.440 dark corner of Ohio, was possibly an over his head. 0:25:14.320 --> 0:25:17.439 Here's Jeff talking about the possibilities of what happened the 0:25:17.520 --> 0:25:22.040 night of April twenty first, twenty sixteen. It all comes 0:25:22.040 --> 0:25:24.919 full circle back to Reader. When we initially got involved 0:25:24.920 --> 0:25:27.040 in the case, the theory out there was that it 0:25:27.080 --> 0:25:29.560 was the cartel, and that theory was put out there 0:25:29.600 --> 0:25:32.480 by Reader very early on in the investigation, and is 0:25:32.520 --> 0:25:36.680 what people thought happened for quite some time. I remember 0:25:36.760 --> 0:25:40.679