Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Katie Couric and this is next question.
Speaker 1: When Gina Rosera walked into our podcast studio, I have
Speaker 1: to be honest, I was stunned by her beauty. She
Speaker 1: was wearing a gray Kashmir sweater, black jeans with a
Speaker 1: simple silver necklace, and she had a regal, almost otherworldly quality.
Speaker 1: She also had a very unpretentious easiness about her. But
Speaker 1: behind all of this is a pretty extraordinary life story,
Speaker 1: which she writes about in her new memoir called Horse Barbie.
Speaker 2: America still needs to see more stories about what it
Speaker 2: truly means to be trans and not just one type
Speaker 2: of representation. You know, for eight years passing as a
Speaker 2: sist model to knowing that we need to tell more
Speaker 2: varied stories because I think that's when we really fully
Speaker 2: show the humanity of it.
Speaker 1: Gina describes herself as a little femboy growing up in
Speaker 1: Manila in the Philippines, and she got very emotional talking
Speaker 1: about the unconditional love of her parents, especially her mother,
Speaker 1: and what it was like for so many years being,
Speaker 1: as she called it, both visible yet invisible, as she
Speaker 1: kept her true identity a secret. We'll talk with her
Speaker 1: about going stealth for so many years, terrified she would
Speaker 1: be discovered and lose everything.
Speaker 3: Would you like a chair? You sure? I feel bad?
Speaker 3: You can get us you sure?
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, okay. I am super excited to be
Speaker 1: here with you, Gina Rossero, to talk about your memoir
Speaker 1: Horse Barbie, and really talk about your life, because to
Speaker 1: say it is an extraordinary life, I think is a
Speaker 1: massive understatement. Before we talk about the content of your
Speaker 1: book and your story, I just wanted to ask you
Speaker 1: a bit about the process of writing it. Yeah, As
Speaker 1: someone who recently wrote a memoir, I'm curious what it
Speaker 1: was like for you to chronicle your entire life.
Speaker 2: I wrote this during the pandemic, and it was two
Speaker 2: years of writing. And it's just that process of getting
Speaker 2: in my space from nine to three o'clock.
Speaker 4: I'm a morning creative.
Speaker 2: By three pm, there's nothing like I'm quite literally exhausted
Speaker 2: and I need to just completely chill down.
Speaker 3: You're tapped out.
Speaker 2: I'm tapped out, And I was doing this for two years.
Speaker 2: I would listen to a podcasts, I would read a book,
Speaker 2: or light up a candle, have ats, or read a
Speaker 2: little page of another person's memoir, you know, and just
Speaker 2: getting into it and I'm sure you know this. But
Speaker 2: in that process where I could feel that I'm sort
Speaker 2: of entering a different world or I'm levitating, I knew
Speaker 2: there's something and I would feel that when I would
Speaker 2: get to that zone and I would snap out of
Speaker 2: it and look at the thing that I wrote, It's
Speaker 2: almost magic, you know.
Speaker 4: I enjoy being there.
Speaker 2: So I think that's what kept me going back for
Speaker 2: two years every day ninety three.
Speaker 1: Wow, that takes a lot of discipline.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: When I wrote my book, a lot of people said
Speaker 1: why now, So I'm curious why now? For you, at
Speaker 1: this stage in your life, did you feel you wanted
Speaker 1: to write a memoir because you told your story to
Speaker 1: the world and a Ted Talk in twenty fourteen, did
Speaker 1: you think, gosh, I want to do more than a
Speaker 1: ten minute Ted talk. My story is more complex and
Speaker 1: interesting than that.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I went from being stealth as a fashion model, where
Speaker 2: the industry didn't know my model agent did not know
Speaker 2: I was trands right, I was hiding. I was living
Speaker 2: this too realities. I went from being stealth to TED
Speaker 2: talk to United Nations to traveling the world advocating for
Speaker 2: trans writes, and it felt like I was missing that
Speaker 2: in between.
Speaker 4: I didn't get a.
Speaker 2: Chance to process that in between, and writing this book
Speaker 2: was my process to unpack a lot more. I didn't
Speaker 2: write it chronological and really went straight to my time
Speaker 2: in New York City when I was a model, because
Speaker 2: I felt like, if I'm gonna do this, which is
Speaker 2: this big task, I felt like, let me focus, and
Speaker 2: I think the most difficult part in my journey, which
Speaker 2: is crazy because I was modeling, but it was also
Speaker 2: the most traumatic, you know, in my life.
Speaker 1: In fact, the book starts with you in a John
Speaker 1: Legend music video in two thousand and five and the
Speaker 1: anxiety you felt. Honestly, I felt anxiety just reading those pages,
Speaker 1: worried and so concerned that you would be found out,
Speaker 1: and how agonizing that was. Yeah, why did you want
Speaker 1: to start with that? Oh?
Speaker 4: Give me gooseba?
Speaker 2: I think it represented a lot of things, a lot
Speaker 2: of things in my journey. But there's a lot of
Speaker 2: magical coincidence in the book. In that beginning of that story,
Speaker 2: the title of the song itself you know, which is
Speaker 2: now who is She? And then the lyrics that he
Speaker 2: was singing to me during my part of the music
Speaker 2: video was just incredibly like magical coincidence that he's asking
Speaker 2: me who I am. I was so visible, but I
Speaker 2: was also invisible, consciously invisible at the same time, while
Speaker 2: at the same time feeling sexy, feeling myself, feeling like
Speaker 2: my dream, but at the same time knowing this conversation
Speaker 2: that's in my head and that moment where I need
Speaker 2: to be careful, but I also need to do good
Speaker 2: so I could really continue this job. It really just
Speaker 2: encapsulates a lot of you know, what the book is about,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: And anxiety of being who you are privately but not
Speaker 1: who you are publicly.
Speaker 2: All of those things happening at the same time. You know,
Speaker 2: this was a dream that I've had growing up in
Speaker 2: the Philippines, and it was a dream come true. But
Speaker 2: that you know, little femboy that who I am in
Speaker 2: the Philippines thinking like I can't believe this is happening.
Speaker 4: I'm actually doing this. But then some.
Speaker 2: Parts of me really wants to just like get me
Speaker 2: out of here. I cannot continue doing this, you know, because.
Speaker 3: It can't keep living a lie.
Speaker 4: Basically, like to think of a very complicated woman.
Speaker 1: You know, let's talk about your childhood, because I loved
Speaker 1: reading about it. It was so evocative with your siblings
Speaker 1: and walking into your house and smelling clorox on the
Speaker 1: linoleum floors, and then walking a little further and seeing
Speaker 1: your dad fixing dinner while your mom was at work.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't think at the time in the
Speaker 2: Philippines there's no such thing as considered middle class. You know,
Speaker 2: it's just the beginning. I mean, my mom was working,
Speaker 2: but I definitely know at the end of the month,
Speaker 2: we're always running into like who do we borrow money
Speaker 2: from to, you know, to put food on the table.
Speaker 2: You know, we're always running out of money for sure.
Speaker 2: So my mom was working, my dad would stay at home.
Speaker 3: Dad so which is very unusual for the time, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's you know, Philippines is a very long history
Speaker 2: of matriarchal society, but also in the context of you know,
Speaker 2: very patriarchal you know, control as well. But the woman
Speaker 2: runs the country like small businesses are run by women.
Speaker 2: My mom is a very strong woman. So definitely, I
Speaker 2: at the time, I didn't see it like as the
Speaker 2: reverse role. It's just some obviously I was young. There's
Speaker 2: no critical analysis.
Speaker 4: I knew.
Speaker 2: I knew my mom goes to work and then my
Speaker 2: dad stay at home, and he's the best stay at
Speaker 2: home dad, you.
Speaker 1: Know, except when he drank, and then things got a
Speaker 1: little hairy, very very and it was hard for him.
Speaker 1: It was hard for him to have even if it's
Speaker 1: a matriarchical society, it was clear from your writing that
Speaker 1: wasn't easy having your mom as the breadwinner for him, right.
Speaker 2: You know, I have not spoken so much about my dad,
Speaker 2: and this book was the first time really like talking
Speaker 2: about it. Even in my ted talk I shared obviously
Speaker 2: the support and the love of my mom, and this
Speaker 2: book was actually the first one where I was really,
Speaker 2: you know, able to process what that was. But certainly
Speaker 2: this book was my first time to really remember a
Speaker 2: lot of the complication, you know, the relationship with my
Speaker 2: dad because I always remember, you know, being taken you
Speaker 2: know by him at the wet market and going every
Speaker 2: day taking me to you know, learn I think in
Speaker 2: some way I learned how to be comfortable in the kitchen.
Speaker 2: I love cooking because of my dad, because of that
Speaker 2: bonding that we had, right I mean, every day at
Speaker 2: six pm we would go to Guadalupe Public Market and
Speaker 2: it's known to be like the best chef in the neighborhood. Actually,
Speaker 2: it would get hired to cook in a fiesta, you know,
Speaker 2: But then it's fiesta, there's drinking, and he would come
Speaker 2: home drinking. Maybe that feeling of guilt that he wasn't
Speaker 2: the provider took its tall and I think it's expressed
Speaker 2: in that very violent.
Speaker 3: Rage, Gina.
Speaker 1: Why don't you read a passage from your book all
Speaker 1: about your childhood, Manila.
Speaker 4: Sure?
Speaker 2: In all there were six of us, my mother, my father,
Speaker 2: my two sisters, my brother, and me living in what
Speaker 2: was effectively a nine x twelve foot room, separated from
Speaker 2: our neighbors by a flimsy plywood wall. Whenever it rained
Speaker 2: too hard, the house would flood and we would have
Speaker 2: to use wooden dining chairs to elevate our beds. We
Speaker 2: also had to keep a watchful eye for the crafty
Speaker 2: jumping rats who liked to steal pieces of our marinated
Speaker 2: pork casino or slice of spam that had been left
Speaker 2: on the table, ferrying them back to the places unknown
Speaker 2: as they squeaked with the delight of their pillage.
Speaker 3: We'll be right back, and we're back.
Speaker 1: I know you write about when you were five or
Speaker 1: six years old and you had an epiphany. Can you
Speaker 1: share that part of the book with us?
Speaker 2: Standing there in front of the mirror, I started to
Speaker 2: take off my T shirt, which had a print of
Speaker 2: one of the animated robots from the show Voltage five,
Speaker 2: so I could step into the shower. But right before
Speaker 2: I was about to slip out of it, while the
Speaker 2: collar was still around the top of my head, I
Speaker 2: paused and looked at my bare face. There was a
Speaker 2: presence in it. It was speaking to me out of nothingness.
Speaker 2: The oversized shirt had flattened the top of my hair,
Speaker 2: the fabric draving behind me like a veil all the
Speaker 2: way to the floor below. As I swayed gently from
Speaker 2: side to side, my shirt moved like actual, real long
Speaker 2: hair would, brushing against my shoulders. In a powerful moment
Speaker 2: of recognition, it is my long hair, I whispered to myself.
Speaker 2: I'm a girl.
Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about when you first
Speaker 1: had this feeling.
Speaker 2: That was probably the first time where I felt that recognition.
Speaker 2: And when people say, like, what are your early memories,
Speaker 2: I'd like to think that that's the thing that's kept
Speaker 2: coming up because it was so strong. That's the one
Speaker 2: that was so significant to me. And to see that
Speaker 2: in the mirror, the reflection at such a young age,
Speaker 2: that that knowledge that like, this is who I am
Speaker 2: and saying it first to myself.
Speaker 4: Was powerful.
Speaker 1: I think many trans people I've talked to say from
Speaker 1: a very early age they felt not comfortable and their bodies,
Speaker 1: not comfortable in their skin, that something was wrong. Did
Speaker 1: you sense that even before you had that moment in
Speaker 1: the mirror.
Speaker 2: Yeah, trans people, especially young trans people, we know. You know,
Speaker 2: it's we know that truth and how powerful it is.
Speaker 2: It becomes uncomfortable when we go outside. You know, there
Speaker 2: are immediate surrounding or safe spaces or neighborhoods or communities
Speaker 2: that doesn't accept it. You know, that's when it becomes uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: Or the early messages that we receive about who were
Speaker 2: supposed to be, that's when it becomes uncomfortable. But the
Speaker 2: truth of that recognition is very present to every single
Speaker 2: young trans person. I knew it happened to me, and
Speaker 2: you know the places when they travel, when they talk
Speaker 2: to trans youth and then their family. It's very early
Speaker 2: when you at a very early age.
Speaker 1: I'm fascinated how different it is in the Philippines in
Speaker 1: terms of the way transgender people and transculture in general
Speaker 1: is treated and seen.
Speaker 3: You write.
Speaker 1: When I was growing up, Catholicism and trans beauty pageants
Speaker 1: inspired equal fanaticism. Families would go straight from mass to
Speaker 1: watching the Supera Serena trans pageants on TV back at home.
Speaker 1: No one really saw this as a paradox. It was
Speaker 1: just part of our unique cultural blend. That is so
Speaker 1: wild and so fascinating to me that this conservative Catholic
Speaker 1: country has a very expansive view of gender and a
Speaker 1: very accepting view of gender in general.
Speaker 2: I'd like to say, I want to offer I guess
Speaker 2: more nuanced context here.
Speaker 4: Acceptance is a very very big word.
Speaker 1: Right, tell me about sort of why it is celebrated.
Speaker 1: And you were a fem boy, yes, and you talk
Speaker 1: about sort of the way you walked and it never
Speaker 1: felt like you were full of shame for who you were,
Speaker 1: and that is I think a pretty foreign concept here
Speaker 1: in the United States.
Speaker 2: Yeah, shame is a big component, especially when they moved here.
Speaker 2: But growing up you know that culture that we have,
Speaker 2: it's very embedded in our culture.
Speaker 4: Gender fluidity.
Speaker 2: We don't have he or she in our language, so
Speaker 2: it's very much embedded in our culture, pre colonial in
Speaker 2: the Philippines, but because it's so embedded in our culture,
Speaker 2: colonial times and then Catholic system, you know, sort of
Speaker 2: took over in the Philippines all over the Philippines and
Speaker 2: then instituted this thing called Catholic Fiesta celebration, which is
Speaker 2: year round. But during those Fiesta celebrations, which is a
Speaker 2: Catholic celebration, the main event for everybody to go see
Speaker 2: is transgender beauty pageants, where the whole family watches it,
Speaker 2: you know, and it's just part of how we celebrate
Speaker 2: it because it's been embedded in our culture, you know,
Speaker 2: and that became my job when I was fifteen.
Speaker 4: There's a pageant.
Speaker 2: Almost every single day all over the Philippines during the
Speaker 2: month of May.
Speaker 1: And growing up in that environment, did it make you
Speaker 1: feel much more comfortable with your early gender fluidity and
Speaker 1: the fact that you know that you carried yourself like
Speaker 1: a girl and not like a boy. And can you
Speaker 1: explain sort of your mom watching you, You describe her,
Speaker 1: you know, radiantly watching you with so much pride. There
Speaker 1: was never any kind of conflict for her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, certainly she had questions, especially as we've gotten closer
Speaker 2: in our relationship, you know, and our women to women conversations.
Speaker 2: She've had questions, but at that time, growing up, I
Speaker 2: wouldn't even say, like it's a power, you know, it's
Speaker 2: so easy for me.
Speaker 4: It's the power of representation.
Speaker 2: It's cultural, you know, it's so embedded in our it's
Speaker 2: in our language, it's in our every society. I like
Speaker 2: to say that trans people are culturally mainstream visible in
Speaker 2: the Philippines. I also again recognize how lucky I am
Speaker 2: to have, you know, mom, even my dad who fully
Speaker 2: accepted me and loved me, not one resistance to to
Speaker 2: it all. And I guess it's love, you know, I
Speaker 2: guess you know, my mom truly just loved me. That
Speaker 2: that's my mom and my dad just somehow found that
Speaker 2: in them to accept me and love me.
Speaker 1: When you were nineteen, you went to Thailand to get
Speaker 1: gender affirmation surgery and your mom came with you, again
Speaker 1: an example of how incredibly supportive she was to you.
Speaker 1: Can you talk about that experience with your mom?
Speaker 4: Just take an excuse me?
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, you know, I'm.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be here without the love of my mom,
Speaker 2: you know, going with me to Thailand and to go
Speaker 2: through that.
Speaker 4: You know, my mom is super Catholic still and I
Speaker 4: can't question her Bible. She would hang up.
Speaker 2: The phone, but the love that she that she hasn't support,
Speaker 2: never questioned who I am going, you know, a Catholic
Speaker 2: mother supporting her trans daughter fully.
Speaker 4: I mean we went to we went to have an
Speaker 4: irreversible surgery in a suburb where nobody spoke English, and
Speaker 4: she was like, I'm coming with you.
Speaker 2: I will hold your hand, give you my rosary before
Speaker 2: you go into you know, your operation, and to be there.
Speaker 2: It was exactly what I needed, you know. And it
Speaker 2: was obviously a big decision. Lots of fear going through
Speaker 2: my head in what my life would it would have
Speaker 2: been if I didn't have the support and love of
Speaker 2: my mom.
Speaker 1: Particularly you also have or had a trans mom, Tiger Lily,
Speaker 1: a woman who would become your lifelong friend and mentor.
Speaker 1: You met her when you were fifteen years old, So
Speaker 1: tell us about the role she played in your life.
Speaker 2: Ohger Lily, I just called her, you know, on the
Speaker 2: way here.
Speaker 4: We speak all the time. You know, I've known.
Speaker 3: She's still in the Philippines.
Speaker 2: She's still in the Philippines. I've known Tiger Little since
Speaker 2: I was fifteen. You know another woman that changed my life.
Speaker 2: I was fifteen when I met her saw something in me.
Speaker 2: She asked me to join my first pageant, and that
Speaker 2: pageant that I shared called Super Syrena, which is this
Speaker 2: televised pageant.
Speaker 4: I remember, I was fifteen years old. I was still
Speaker 4: in high.
Speaker 2: School, and I remember just watching one of the finals
Speaker 2: of this pageant. I was still in school watching it.
Speaker 2: It was amazing seeing all the girls dreaming, you know,
Speaker 2: but also not vocalizing that I want to be like them.
Speaker 2: And little did I know a week a week and
Speaker 2: a half later, I would meet Tiger Lily and I
Speaker 2: would join trans pageant. Somehow she saw something in me.
Speaker 2: She made me try on the swimsuit. I felt, you know, sexy,
Speaker 2: you know where wearing that two piece Anian swimsuit. And
Speaker 2: she saw the confidence. She made me join that pageant,
Speaker 2: and I, you know, the woman that I was seeing
Speaker 2: on television was in that competition. I beat all of them,
Speaker 2: like it was like a fantasy world. And she took
Speaker 2: me on, you know, and then our life journey together
Speaker 2: has been you know, magical, I'd say, and she kind of,
Speaker 2: you know, she became my other mother. She was my
Speaker 2: chosen mother. She was my best friend. She was also
Speaker 2: my pageant manager.
Speaker 1: All at once, I wondered about your mom moving to
Speaker 1: America when you were still pretty young. You decided to
Speaker 1: join your mom in California. Was after you won the
Speaker 1: Miss Gay Universe pageant in two thousand. That was a
Speaker 1: huge deal for people who may not be familiar with
Speaker 1: the different pageants, that's that's a major major deal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the biggest And for me to I
Speaker 2: won that, that's such a young age and I was
Speaker 2: sixteen about to turn seventeen. I reached the top at
Speaker 2: such a young age, became a pageant diva, making a
Speaker 2: lot of money, the most popular trans pajiant queen. And
Speaker 2: to win that big one was it was the biggest moment,
Speaker 2: you know, and that just solidified my legacy in the
Speaker 2: pageant culture. My mom one day called me and she said,
Speaker 2: you know, your Green carpetition came through. You're now moving
Speaker 2: to the US. And initially I said no to her
Speaker 2: because I was a pageant diva. You know, it's a
Speaker 2: pageant queen in the Philippines. You know, I'm making so
Speaker 2: much money, you know, all of that thing as a
Speaker 2: young you.
Speaker 4: Know, pageant queen is an overachiever.
Speaker 2: But then when she came back to me and she said,
Speaker 2: you know, when you moved to the US, you could
Speaker 2: change your name and gender marker and your legal documents.
Speaker 4: And that did it for me.
Speaker 2: And as a seventeen year old trans Philippe that's a
Speaker 2: young immigrant seventeen.
Speaker 4: A culture shock.
Speaker 2: That was the biggest culture shock from I mean, the
Speaker 2: first question I asked my mom was the transpageants, Like,
Speaker 2: there's no transpageants here. But somehow I met this model
Speaker 2: who used to model in New York City. She said,
Speaker 2: if you really want to do this, you have to
Speaker 2: move to New York City. And I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: I'm going to move to New York City. And because
Speaker 2: of that thought it opened up that whole floodgate again
Speaker 2: of wanting to be a model.
Speaker 4: I wanted to.
Speaker 2: Pursue it, but the fear is always there that you know,
Speaker 2: anyone could out me and it would destroy people's career
Speaker 2: like it happened to It's well documented, it happened to
Speaker 2: so many trans women, trans particularly trans woman of color,
Speaker 2: that the moment they got out there, they were done,
Speaker 2: you know, discarded. So you have this ambition to be
Speaker 2: so visible, right whether on Times Square, Billboard or doing
Speaker 2: a commercial. You want to do that, but there's risk,
Speaker 2: the bigger the job, the bigger the paranoia that I
Speaker 2: was going through, And honestly, right now, even speaking to
Speaker 2: you in this voice, in this tone, I used to
Speaker 2: always calculate the little tones of how I speak, how
Speaker 2: I talk to someone. Am I drinking enough, you know,
Speaker 2: water so that my voice is more fluid? You know?
Speaker 4: Like these are the kind of things that was going
Speaker 4: through my head.
Speaker 1: And you talked about like would someone see your Adams
Speaker 1: Sapple during the making of that John Legend video? And
Speaker 1: then when someone asked to talk to you, you were
Speaker 1: terrified that you had been found out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I felt like I was a spy. I felt
Speaker 2: like I was in a clandestine operation every day of
Speaker 2: my life. And I think now it makes sense why
Speaker 2: I like spy genres.
Speaker 4: Because why I connect with them, because I really felt
Speaker 4: like I was. I have to put up this this cover.
Speaker 3: We'll be right back.
Speaker 1: If you want to get smarter Every morning with a
Speaker 1: breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and
Speaker 1: wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter
Speaker 1: wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com.
Speaker 3: And we're back.
Speaker 1: What made you finally say screw it? I am going
Speaker 1: to tell the world who I am and I'm going
Speaker 1: to tell my story.
Speaker 2: There's so many moments, I guess because I was in
Speaker 2: that process, there were so many little hints that maybe
Speaker 2: I want to do it? When am I going to
Speaker 2: do it? Questioning and over analyzing what could happen in
Speaker 2: my career? It manifested in a physical condition I had.
Speaker 2: Certainly I was very depressed. I know that the anguish,
Speaker 2: emotional anguish, the mental anguish of having to always edit
Speaker 2: my story.
Speaker 3: And always being on guard. That's stressful.
Speaker 2: I had a very crazy moment of eczema that manifested
Speaker 2: in my body. Its just somehow it took over my
Speaker 2: body that I got to the point that I thought
Speaker 2: I'll never be able to wear somesuit. There's still some
Speaker 2: marks here and there, and it's now a present thing.
Speaker 2: When I get stressed, it comes up. And I listened
Speaker 2: to that. But that was the big outbreak where it
Speaker 2: was all over my body. And it took a woman
Speaker 2: dermatologists who sat me down and said, after giving me
Speaker 2: all the steroids in everything, nothing was working. And she said,
Speaker 2: what is going on emotionally, spiritually, psychologically, you need to
Speaker 2: listen to whatever that's going on. Didn't tell her obviously
Speaker 2: that I'm transfer I knew exactly what she's talking about,
Speaker 2: Like my truth was quite literally coming out of my
Speaker 2: body wanting to come out.
Speaker 4: So I listened to that.
Speaker 2: My partner and I went to toulw, Mexico for my
Speaker 2: thirtieth birthday, and somehow, you know that magical moment when
Speaker 2: when he asked me what this s turning thirty means
Speaker 2: to me? Somehow it felt so pure in that moment
Speaker 2: to say it. You know, I was entering, you know,
Speaker 2: I was turning thirty. I couldn't take it anymore. I
Speaker 2: had to, you know, tell my story. And I somehow,
Speaker 2: once I made that decision, it was as if nothing
Speaker 2: could stop me. I wanted to share my story in
Speaker 2: the biggest possible platform that I could think of. I
Speaker 2: went from the decision of again being so ashamed, to like,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna come out on a Ted stage.
Speaker 3: Well does that what was the reaction?
Speaker 4: You know, this is twenty fourteen.
Speaker 2: I mean looking back and talk about timing in that moment,
Speaker 2: I mean, this was I gave the Ted Talk March
Speaker 2: twenty fourteen, and that June Laverne Cox on the cover
Speaker 2: of Time magazine and twenty fourteen was something in the zeitgeist.
Speaker 1: In late twenty fourteen, after your Ted talk, you traveled
Speaker 1: to the Philippines to lobby in favor of trans rights
Speaker 1: in front of the legislature, but you learned that not
Speaker 1: much had change in the Philippines.
Speaker 2: What happened, Gina, Oh my god, that was talking about,
Speaker 2: you know, humbling me in that moment. I was invited
Speaker 2: to speak at this conference advocating for antidiscrimination policies but
Speaker 2: also specifically transwrits, and you know, I was the guest
Speaker 2: of honor speaking my story coming from America walking into
Speaker 2: you know, the House of Representatives in the Philippines, and
Speaker 2: that was with my transpant tiger Lily, and we were
Speaker 2: there together. And as we were walking to the security
Speaker 2: the security guard, I was looking self fabulous.
Speaker 4: I felt like I was.
Speaker 2: Having my Angelina Joly moment, you know, with my fabulous dress.
Speaker 4: My friend made me feeling so confident.
Speaker 2: And as I was walking in the security guard sir, sir, sir,
Speaker 2: you need to go to the male section of the
Speaker 2: security I was like just dumbfounded about that moment and
Speaker 2: couldn't help it. I went full on snappy trans one
Speaker 2: on one to that guy and just said, like, somebody
Speaker 2: that looks like a woman, who speaks like a woman,
Speaker 2: looks like a woman, she is a woman, you know,
Speaker 2: And I just like pushed through and didn't even like
Speaker 2: just ignored him. You know, there was a moment of like,
Speaker 2: I need to follow through and like what he said.
Speaker 2: But this is why I was invited here to speak
Speaker 2: about these things. I felt that in as much as
Speaker 2: she has we're going to talk about trans writes, but
Speaker 2: in the most basic thing of the security doesn't even
Speaker 2: know how to communicate that in a space that should
Speaker 2: have been right. You know, there's still a lot of
Speaker 2: work that needs to be done, so well, I was
Speaker 2: going to ask you about that.
Speaker 1: It seems the best way for us to close out
Speaker 1: this conversation is to talk about where we are with
Speaker 1: trans issues today.
Speaker 3: Gina.
Speaker 1: It seems like a lot of progress was being made
Speaker 1: in twenty fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, and now we're experiencing
Speaker 1: a major backlash. Laverne Cox recently said in twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: we're at the height of the backlash against trans visibility.
Speaker 1: We have way more people who are educated about trans folks,
Speaker 1: but there's also been a rigorous misinformation media machine. Why
Speaker 1: do you think we are where we are today?
Speaker 2: It's ongoing every day, you know, I'd say there's slayers.
Speaker 2: I think one is power. I think that people empower,
Speaker 2: particularly in the political right, sees the trans people does
Speaker 2: not have that you know, same, I guess power pool
Speaker 2: when it comes to organizing and you know, at least
Speaker 2: a perception. So there's that component that like, oh, we
Speaker 2: could attack this and easily demonize the people that is
Speaker 2: the most misunderstood in America. So there's a component of power.
Speaker 2: The conversation that I'm having with my fellow trans folks
Speaker 2: is that freaking exhausted, you know, to feel that you're
Speaker 2: the only one fighting for this fighting in this moment.
Speaker 2: Why can we have the same support with marriage equality
Speaker 2: was happening. Why is that systematic approach when marriage equality
Speaker 2: was happening. Why can't we have that that kind of
Speaker 2: exhaustion that we're feeling and speaking to each other? We
Speaker 2: need more because we know this in history, have said it.
Speaker 2: When they come for one group, they are coming for everybody.
Speaker 1: I think another misunderstanding that I often hear and I'd
Speaker 1: love you to clear it up for people is people
Speaker 1: who are worried about children making big life choices. And
Speaker 1: I always want to say, well, kids are not getting
Speaker 1: gender affirming surgery when they're twelve thirteen, you know. But
Speaker 1: a constant refrain I hear and read as this dialogue
Speaker 1: continues is the concern that children are making permanent decisions
Speaker 1: when they don't have the maturity to make those decisions.
Speaker 1: And I wondered if you could address that gena for people.
Speaker 2: Sure, I think I'd say every respected prominent medical institutions
Speaker 2: have instituted these processes.
Speaker 4: There was.
Speaker 2: No resistance. It's been established for many many years. W
Speaker 2: passed to American Pediotic Association that deals with children and America.
Speaker 2: There's been well, well, well established for many many years.
Speaker 2: The reason why the demonization of that misinformation is again
Speaker 2: related to that power that I was talking about earlier,
Speaker 2: because it's such an easy target. Kids, young kids. I
Speaker 2: would remember when I was growing up, is that just
Speaker 2: want to express right, there's nothing wrong in letting a kid,
Speaker 2: you know, put a little nail polished and play.
Speaker 4: It's play. Why can we allow kids to play and express.
Speaker 4: It's all part of.
Speaker 2: That, and it's been debunked many times that you know,
Speaker 2: a young kid does not have to go through any
Speaker 2: big medical decisions with the presence of their family, with
Speaker 2: the support and the systematic approach in medical establishments until
Speaker 2: they're ready to do it, which is you know, eighteen
Speaker 2: sixteen years old. You know, with the guidance of a
Speaker 2: family member and a medical professional.
Speaker 1: How do you fight this backlash? Do you you talk
Speaker 1: about being tired of being an activist? I know that
Speaker 1: when I did my documentary, I talked to some transactivists
Speaker 1: who said, it's not really our job to educate you.
Speaker 1: You know, this is why God created Google. On the
Speaker 1: other hand, representation and conversation, I think can move the
Speaker 1: ball forward. So how do we get to a place
Speaker 1: of deeper understanding and acceptance.
Speaker 2: I think the bigger conversation of equity. You know, I'm
Speaker 2: a storyteller. I'm a media producer. I'm a storyteller at heart.
Speaker 2: I think stories of trans people from so many different experiences,
Speaker 2: so many different point of views, has to be told
Speaker 2: by trans people, particularly even more powerful because it might
Speaker 2: seem like it's an easy cop out answer that because
Speaker 2: when you see yourself and represent it, it creates.
Speaker 4: But they.
Speaker 2: It is obviously very exhausting to always talking about this,
Speaker 2: to always to defend your humanity, to debate your existence.
Speaker 1: It's almost as if I would have to defend being
Speaker 1: a cis gender. Imagine that heterosexual female.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, point of comparison, right, I mean imagine that,
Speaker 2: you know, people would have a little bit more empathy
Speaker 2: to really see through beyond this demonization of you know.
Speaker 3: We get tired of talking about it incessantly.
Speaker 2: As an artist, as a storyteller, and in this book
Speaker 2: that I wrote, I dared myself to really unapologetically express
Speaker 2: who I am, my stories, my hopes, my dreams, my vulnerability,
Speaker 2: my playfulness, just like any other human being, just like
Speaker 2: any other the sameness of what a trans person is
Speaker 2: experiencing to a cist person is experiencing, as it should be.
Speaker 1: So you did your ted talk in twenty fourteen, you
Speaker 1: have this beautiful memoir in twenty twenty three. What do
Speaker 1: you see yourself doing in the next decade?
Speaker 2: You know, I think I want to honor the storyteller
Speaker 2: in me, the artist and me. I want to direct more.
Speaker 2: I directed, you know, a DOCU series with PBS about
Speaker 2: Filipino America and frontline workers called Caretakers. They got Ammy
Speaker 2: nominated and Glad Media or nominated, and the baselines, I
Speaker 2: want to tell more story, whether it's I'm directing or
Speaker 2: acting in it or you know, there was a part
Speaker 2: of me for so long that because I was living stealth,
Speaker 2: I wasn't really living up to like who I am fully,
Speaker 2: and that's the anxiety filled person who just want to
Speaker 2: achieve part of me. But now I looked at that
Speaker 2: as a sense of Okay, this is my purpose now
Speaker 2: is to tell more story, to create more story, to
Speaker 2: create more to persent more work worlds that people have
Speaker 2: not seen before.
Speaker 1: Gina Rasero, it's been so fun talking to you and fascinating.
Speaker 1: I know this is your first interview for the book.
Speaker 1: How do you think it went? Were you happy?
Speaker 4: You made me cry? That's for sure?
Speaker 1: Then?
Speaker 2: Ah, thank you so much, Thank you, Gina, thank you,
Speaker 2: thank you, thank you for honoring me in this moment
Speaker 2: to share this. I've been saying that I can't wait
Speaker 2: to talk about it. It's been a long process and
Speaker 2: here I am talking about it, crying, you know, laughing
Speaker 2: and going through it and I'm sure there would be more,
Speaker 2: and truly, truly, I appreciate you taking this time.
Speaker 1: Thank you, love, I love the book, and I love
Speaker 1: talking to you. And I hope a lot of people
Speaker 1: not only love listening, but also love learning from your story.
Speaker 4: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening everyone. If you have a question for me,
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Speaker 1: this crazy world reach out. You can leave a short
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Speaker 1: producer is Marcy Thompson. Our producers are Adrianna Fazzio and
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