WEBVTT - Supermodel Geena Rocero on Living Your Truth 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:08.160 Hi everyone, I'm Katie Couric and this is next question. 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:12.119 When Gina Rosera walked into our podcast studio, I have 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:14.960 to be honest, I was stunned by her beauty. She 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:18.279 was wearing a gray Kashmir sweater, black jeans with a 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:23.480 simple silver necklace, and she had a regal, almost otherworldly quality. 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:28.560 She also had a very unpretentious easiness about her. But 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:32.400 behind all of this is a pretty extraordinary life story, 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:36.320 which she writes about in her new memoir called Horse Barbie. 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:39.360 America still needs to see more stories about what it 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:42.160 truly means to be trans and not just one type 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:46.080 of representation. You know, for eight years passing as a 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:50.360 sist model to knowing that we need to tell more 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:54.880 varied stories because I think that's when we really fully 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:56.319 show the humanity of it. 0:00:56.880 --> 0:01:00.880 Gina describes herself as a little femboy growing up in 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:05.480 Manila in the Philippines, and she got very emotional talking 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:10.000 about the unconditional love of her parents, especially her mother, 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:14.120 and what it was like for so many years being, 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:18.600 as she called it, both visible yet invisible, as she 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:22.720 kept her true identity a secret. We'll talk with her 0:01:22.760 --> 0:01:26.920 about going stealth for so many years, terrified she would 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:29.200 be discovered and lose everything. 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:35.360 Would you like a chair? You sure? I feel bad? 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:40.600 You can get us you sure? 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:44.840 Okay, all right, okay. I am super excited to be 0:01:44.959 --> 0:01:49.120 here with you, Gina Rossero, to talk about your memoir 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:52.600 Horse Barbie, and really talk about your life, because to 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:56.160 say it is an extraordinary life, I think is a 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:59.840 massive understatement. Before we talk about the content of your 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:02.480 book and your story, I just wanted to ask you 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:06.440 a bit about the process of writing it. Yeah, As 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:10.280 someone who recently wrote a memoir, I'm curious what it 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:14.280 was like for you to chronicle your entire life. 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:17.800 I wrote this during the pandemic, and it was two 0:02:17.919 --> 0:02:25.040 years of writing. And it's just that process of getting 0:02:25.520 --> 0:02:29.280 in my space from nine to three o'clock. 0:02:30.040 --> 0:02:31.239 I'm a morning creative. 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:36.240 By three pm, there's nothing like I'm quite literally exhausted 0:02:36.320 --> 0:02:38.000 and I need to just completely chill down. 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:38.880 You're tapped out. 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:42.120 I'm tapped out, And I was doing this for two years. 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:45.880 I would listen to a podcasts, I would read a book, 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:49.160 or light up a candle, have ats, or read a 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:53.160 little page of another person's memoir, you know, and just 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:56.880 getting into it and I'm sure you know this. But 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:00.239 in that process where I could feel that I'm sort 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:04.679 of entering a different world or I'm levitating, I knew 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:07.840 there's something and I would feel that when I would 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:10.200 get to that zone and I would snap out of 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:13.760 it and look at the thing that I wrote, It's 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:15.080 almost magic, you know. 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:17.079 I enjoy being there. 0:03:17.120 --> 0:03:19.200 So I think that's what kept me going back for 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:20.919 two years every day ninety three. 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:23.679 Wow, that takes a lot of discipline. 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:24.680 Yeah. 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:26.920 When I wrote my book, a lot of people said 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:31.160 why now, So I'm curious why now? For you, at 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:35.000 this stage in your life, did you feel you wanted 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:38.600 to write a memoir because you told your story to 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:42.000 the world and a Ted Talk in twenty fourteen, did 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:44.080 you think, gosh, I want to do more than a 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:47.480 ten minute Ted talk. My story is more complex and 0:03:47.600 --> 0:03:48.600 interesting than that. 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:49.240 Yeah. 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:52.960 I went from being stealth as a fashion model, where 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:56.080 the industry didn't know my model agent did not know 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:59.480 I was trands right, I was hiding. I was living 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:05.080 this too realities. I went from being stealth to TED 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:08.480 talk to United Nations to traveling the world advocating for 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:11.120 trans writes, and it felt like I was missing that 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:11.680 in between. 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:12.320 I didn't get a. 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:15.280 Chance to process that in between, and writing this book 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:19.400 was my process to unpack a lot more. I didn't 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:23.560 write it chronological and really went straight to my time 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:25.480 in New York City when I was a model, because 0:04:25.480 --> 0:04:28.760 I felt like, if I'm gonna do this, which is 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:31.400 this big task, I felt like, let me focus, and 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:34.200 I think the most difficult part in my journey, which 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:37.040 is crazy because I was modeling, but it was also 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:39.040 the most traumatic, you know, in my life. 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:42.640 In fact, the book starts with you in a John 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:47.599 Legend music video in two thousand and five and the 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:54.279 anxiety you felt. Honestly, I felt anxiety just reading those pages, 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:59.640 worried and so concerned that you would be found out, 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:05.040 and how agonizing that was. Yeah, why did you want 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:06.800 to start with that? Oh? 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:07.600 Give me gooseba? 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.280 I think it represented a lot of things, a lot 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:13.680 of things in my journey. But there's a lot of 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:17.839 magical coincidence in the book. In that beginning of that story, 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:21.720 the title of the song itself you know, which is 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:23.839 now who is She? And then the lyrics that he 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:26.960 was singing to me during my part of the music 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:32.440 video was just incredibly like magical coincidence that he's asking 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:35.400 me who I am. I was so visible, but I 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:39.480 was also invisible, consciously invisible at the same time, while 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:43.520 at the same time feeling sexy, feeling myself, feeling like 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:46.480 my dream, but at the same time knowing this conversation 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:49.640 that's in my head and that moment where I need 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:52.719 to be careful, but I also need to do good 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:55.320 so I could really continue this job. It really just 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:58.800 encapsulates a lot of you know, what the book is about, 0:05:58.960 --> 0:05:59.320 you know. 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:05.400 And anxiety of being who you are privately but not 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:07.080 who you are publicly. 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:09.800 All of those things happening at the same time. You know, 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:11.880 this was a dream that I've had growing up in 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:13.960 the Philippines, and it was a dream come true. But 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:18.080 that you know, little femboy that who I am in 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:20.560 the Philippines thinking like I can't believe this is happening. 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:23.719 I'm actually doing this. But then some. 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:26.320 Parts of me really wants to just like get me 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:29.320 out of here. I cannot continue doing this, you know, because. 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:30.640 It can't keep living a lie. 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:33.239 Basically, like to think of a very complicated woman. 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:37.919 You know, let's talk about your childhood, because I loved 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:43.480 reading about it. It was so evocative with your siblings 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:47.359 and walking into your house and smelling clorox on the 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:50.920 linoleum floors, and then walking a little further and seeing 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:55.000 your dad fixing dinner while your mom was at work. 0:06:56.400 --> 0:06:57.760 You know, I don't think at the time in the 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:01.039 Philippines there's no such thing as considered middle class. You know, 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:03.960 it's just the beginning. I mean, my mom was working, 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:07.480 but I definitely know at the end of the month, 0:07:07.560 --> 0:07:10.200 we're always running into like who do we borrow money 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:12.680 from to, you know, to put food on the table. 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:15.400 You know, we're always running out of money for sure. 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:17.760 So my mom was working, my dad would stay at home. 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:21.160 Dad so which is very unusual for the time, right. 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:24.640 Yeah, it's you know, Philippines is a very long history 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:28.840 of matriarchal society, but also in the context of you know, 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:32.559 very patriarchal you know, control as well. But the woman 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:35.320 runs the country like small businesses are run by women. 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:40.160 My mom is a very strong woman. So definitely, I 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:43.160 at the time, I didn't see it like as the 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:46.520 reverse role. It's just some obviously I was young. There's 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:47.840 no critical analysis. 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:48.360 I knew. 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:51.600 I knew my mom goes to work and then my 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:53.680 dad stay at home, and he's the best stay at 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:54.600 home dad, you. 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:58.160 Know, except when he drank, and then things got a 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:02.840 little hairy, very very and it was hard for him. 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:05.320 It was hard for him to have even if it's 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:08.440 a matriarchical society, it was clear from your writing that 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:14.760 wasn't easy having your mom as the breadwinner for him, right. 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:18.280 You know, I have not spoken so much about my dad, 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:20.960 and this book was the first time really like talking 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:25.320 about it. Even in my ted talk I shared obviously 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:27.360 the support and the love of my mom, and this 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:29.520 book was actually the first one where I was really, 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:33.280 you know, able to process what that was. But certainly 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:38.080 this book was my first time to really remember a 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:41.680 lot of the complication, you know, the relationship with my 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:46.960 dad because I always remember, you know, being taken you 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:50.960 know by him at the wet market and going every 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:53.600 day taking me to you know, learn I think in 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.120 some way I learned how to be comfortable in the kitchen. 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:58.480 I love cooking because of my dad, because of that 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:02.439 bonding that we had, right I mean, every day at 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:05.720 six pm we would go to Guadalupe Public Market and 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:09.880 it's known to be like the best chef in the neighborhood. Actually, 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:12.720 it would get hired to cook in a fiesta, you know, 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:16.360 But then it's fiesta, there's drinking, and he would come 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:20.240 home drinking. Maybe that feeling of guilt that he wasn't 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:24.200 the provider took its tall and I think it's expressed 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:25.800 in that very violent. 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:26.800 Rage, Gina. 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:29.000 Why don't you read a passage from your book all 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:30.840 about your childhood, Manila. 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:31.200 Sure? 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:36.320 In all there were six of us, my mother, my father, 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:40.760 my two sisters, my brother, and me living in what 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:44.080 was effectively a nine x twelve foot room, separated from 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:48.920 our neighbors by a flimsy plywood wall. Whenever it rained 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:53.640 too hard, the house would flood and we would have 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:57.600 to use wooden dining chairs to elevate our beds. We 0:09:57.679 --> 0:10:01.120 also had to keep a watchful eye for the crafty 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:04.720 jumping rats who liked to steal pieces of our marinated 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:09.160 pork casino or slice of spam that had been left 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:12.960 on the table, ferrying them back to the places unknown 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:17.280 as they squeaked with the delight of their pillage. 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:32.120 We'll be right back, and we're back. 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:35.760 I know you write about when you were five or 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:39.200 six years old and you had an epiphany. Can you 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:40.920 share that part of the book with us? 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:46.080 Standing there in front of the mirror, I started to 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:49.199 take off my T shirt, which had a print of 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:52.240 one of the animated robots from the show Voltage five, 0:10:53.040 --> 0:10:56.360 so I could step into the shower. But right before 0:10:56.400 --> 0:10:59.160 I was about to slip out of it, while the 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:02.440 collar was still around the top of my head, I 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:07.640 paused and looked at my bare face. There was a 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:12.160 presence in it. It was speaking to me out of nothingness. 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:15.880 The oversized shirt had flattened the top of my hair, 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:19.520 the fabric draving behind me like a veil all the 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:23.800 way to the floor below. As I swayed gently from 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:28.160 side to side, my shirt moved like actual, real long 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:32.560 hair would, brushing against my shoulders. In a powerful moment 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:39.840 of recognition, it is my long hair, I whispered to myself. 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:41.959 I'm a girl. 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:46.000 I want to talk to you about when you first 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:47.360 had this feeling. 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:52.400 That was probably the first time where I felt that recognition. 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:55.679 And when people say, like, what are your early memories, 0:11:56.920 --> 0:11:59.320 I'd like to think that that's the thing that's kept 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:02.280 coming up because it was so strong. That's the one 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:05.200 that was so significant to me. And to see that 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:09.120 in the mirror, the reflection at such a young age, 0:12:09.240 --> 0:12:12.000 that that knowledge that like, this is who I am 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:14.199 and saying it first to myself. 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:15.920 Was powerful. 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:19.160 I think many trans people I've talked to say from 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:24.560 a very early age they felt not comfortable and their bodies, 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:28.880 not comfortable in their skin, that something was wrong. Did 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:31.640 you sense that even before you had that moment in 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:32.160 the mirror. 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:36.080 Yeah, trans people, especially young trans people, we know. You know, 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:38.520 it's we know that truth and how powerful it is. 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:41.960 It becomes uncomfortable when we go outside. You know, there 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:46.400 are immediate surrounding or safe spaces or neighborhoods or communities 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:49.679 that doesn't accept it. You know, that's when it becomes uncomfortable. 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:54.079 Or the early messages that we receive about who were 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:56.719 supposed to be, that's when it becomes uncomfortable. But the 0:12:56.760 --> 0:13:01.040 truth of that recognition is very present to every single 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:04.480 young trans person. I knew it happened to me, and 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:07.400 you know the places when they travel, when they talk 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:10.079 to trans youth and then their family. It's very early 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:11.840 when you at a very early age. 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:16.560 I'm fascinated how different it is in the Philippines in 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:21.480 terms of the way transgender people and transculture in general 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:24.760 is treated and seen. 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:26.360 You write. 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:30.920 When I was growing up, Catholicism and trans beauty pageants 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:35.880 inspired equal fanaticism. Families would go straight from mass to 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:40.959 watching the Supera Serena trans pageants on TV back at home. 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:44.560 No one really saw this as a paradox. It was 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:49.360 just part of our unique cultural blend. That is so 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:55.320 wild and so fascinating to me that this conservative Catholic 0:13:55.480 --> 0:14:00.320 country has a very expansive view of gender and a 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:05.240 very accepting view of gender in general. 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:10.440 I'd like to say, I want to offer I guess 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:11.840 more nuanced context here. 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:14.239 Acceptance is a very very big word. 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:19.080 Right, tell me about sort of why it is celebrated. 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:25.240 And you were a fem boy, yes, and you talk 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.680 about sort of the way you walked and it never 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:32.320 felt like you were full of shame for who you were, 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:37.240 and that is I think a pretty foreign concept here 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:39.200 in the United States. 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:44.080 Yeah, shame is a big component, especially when they moved here. 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:46.320 But growing up you know that culture that we have, 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:48.720 it's very embedded in our culture. 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:49.760 Gender fluidity. 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:52.800 We don't have he or she in our language, so 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:56.480 it's very much embedded in our culture, pre colonial in 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:59.880 the Philippines, but because it's so embedded in our culture, 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:04.240 colonial times and then Catholic system, you know, sort of 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:06.480 took over in the Philippines all over the Philippines and 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:10.000 then instituted this thing called Catholic Fiesta celebration, which is 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:14.440 year round. But during those Fiesta celebrations, which is a 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:18.840 Catholic celebration, the main event for everybody to go see 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:23.080 is transgender beauty pageants, where the whole family watches it, 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:26.880 you know, and it's just part of how we celebrate 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:29.640 it because it's been embedded in our culture, you know, 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:31.480 and that became my job when I was fifteen. 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:32.920 There's a pageant. 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:36.440 Almost every single day all over the Philippines during the 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:37.000 month of May. 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.520 And growing up in that environment, did it make you 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:45.960 feel much more comfortable with your early gender fluidity and 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:50.720 the fact that you know that you carried yourself like 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:53.480 a girl and not like a boy. And can you 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:57.480 explain sort of your mom watching you, You describe her, 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:03.240 you know, radiantly watching you with so much pride. There 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:07.400 was never any kind of conflict for her. 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:13.080 Yeah, certainly she had questions, especially as we've gotten closer 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:17.359 in our relationship, you know, and our women to women conversations. 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:21.320 She've had questions, but at that time, growing up, I 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:23.360 wouldn't even say, like it's a power, you know, it's 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:24.000 so easy for me. 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:25.640 It's the power of representation. 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:29.760 It's cultural, you know, it's so embedded in our it's 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:33.640 in our language, it's in our every society. I like 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:37.240 to say that trans people are culturally mainstream visible in 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:41.240 the Philippines. I also again recognize how lucky I am 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:44.200 to have, you know, mom, even my dad who fully 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:47.760 accepted me and loved me, not one resistance to to 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:52.240 it all. And I guess it's love, you know, I 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:55.440 guess you know, my mom truly just loved me. That 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:58.960 that's my mom and my dad just somehow found that 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:01.040 in them to accept me and love me. 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.240 When you were nineteen, you went to Thailand to get 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:10.960 gender affirmation surgery and your mom came with you, again 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:16.440 an example of how incredibly supportive she was to you. 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:22.680 Can you talk about that experience with your mom? 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:25.080 Just take an excuse me? 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:33.280 Yeah, of course, you know, I'm. 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:37.399 I wouldn't be here without the love of my mom, 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:41.119 you know, going with me to Thailand and to go 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:41.720 through that. 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:47.440 You know, my mom is super Catholic still and I 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:49.880 can't question her Bible. She would hang up. 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:56.760 The phone, but the love that she that she hasn't support, 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:03.480 never questioned who I am going, you know, a Catholic 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:05.560 mother supporting her trans daughter fully. 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:10.679 I mean we went to we went to have an 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:14.919 irreversible surgery in a suburb where nobody spoke English, and 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:16.440 she was like, I'm coming with you. 0:18:17.040 --> 0:18:20.159 I will hold your hand, give you my rosary before 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:24.920 you go into you know, your operation, and to be there. 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:28.520 It was exactly what I needed, you know. And it 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:34.520 was obviously a big decision. Lots of fear going through 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:38.480 my head in what my life would it would have 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:41.000 been if I didn't have the support and love of 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:41.760 my mom. 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:47.639 Particularly you also have or had a trans mom, Tiger Lily, 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:51.120 a woman who would become your lifelong friend and mentor. 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:54.200 You met her when you were fifteen years old, So 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:57.200 tell us about the role she played in your life. 0:18:58.040 --> 0:19:00.560 Ohger Lily, I just called her, you know, on the 0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:01.160 way here. 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:04.240 We speak all the time. You know, I've known. 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:05.840 She's still in the Philippines. 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:08.000 She's still in the Philippines. I've known Tiger Little since 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:12.359 I was fifteen. You know another woman that changed my life. 0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:16.800 I was fifteen when I met her saw something in me. 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:21.920 She asked me to join my first pageant, and that 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:25.080 pageant that I shared called Super Syrena, which is this 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:26.400 televised pageant. 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:30.520 I remember, I was fifteen years old. I was still 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:31.040 in high. 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:35.800 School, and I remember just watching one of the finals 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:38.960 of this pageant. I was still in school watching it. 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:42.840 It was amazing seeing all the girls dreaming, you know, 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:45.720 but also not vocalizing that I want to be like them. 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:48.280 And little did I know a week a week and 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:50.080 a half later, I would meet Tiger Lily and I 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:54.040 would join trans pageant. Somehow she saw something in me. 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:58.880 She made me try on the swimsuit. I felt, you know, sexy, 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:02.440 you know where wearing that two piece Anian swimsuit. And 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:06.000 she saw the confidence. She made me join that pageant, 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:09.040 and I, you know, the woman that I was seeing 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:12.240 on television was in that competition. I beat all of them, 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:16.840 like it was like a fantasy world. And she took 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:20.080 me on, you know, and then our life journey together 0:20:20.320 --> 0:20:24.359 has been you know, magical, I'd say, and she kind of, 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:26.760 you know, she became my other mother. She was my 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:30.080 chosen mother. She was my best friend. She was also 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:31.240 my pageant manager. 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:34.359 All at once, I wondered about your mom moving to 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:38.760 America when you were still pretty young. You decided to 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:42.800 join your mom in California. Was after you won the 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:46.919 Miss Gay Universe pageant in two thousand. That was a 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:50.800 huge deal for people who may not be familiar with 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:55.520 the different pageants, that's that's a major major deal. 0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:58.639 Yeah, that was the biggest And for me to I 0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:02.320 won that, that's such a young age and I was 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:05.760 sixteen about to turn seventeen. I reached the top at 0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:09.080 such a young age, became a pageant diva, making a 0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:12.640 lot of money, the most popular trans pajiant queen. And 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:17.639 to win that big one was it was the biggest moment, 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:21.800 you know, and that just solidified my legacy in the 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:26.320 pageant culture. My mom one day called me and she said, 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:28.720 you know, your Green carpetition came through. You're now moving 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:31.400 to the US. And initially I said no to her 0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:34.040 because I was a pageant diva. You know, it's a 0:21:34.080 --> 0:21:36.760 pageant queen in the Philippines. You know, I'm making so 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:40.159 much money, you know, all of that thing as a 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:41.920 young you. 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:44.400 Know, pageant queen is an overachiever. 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:47.040 But then when she came back to me and she said, 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:48.600 you know, when you moved to the US, you could 0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:52.840 change your name and gender marker and your legal documents. 0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:53.919 And that did it for me. 0:21:55.040 --> 0:22:01.199 And as a seventeen year old trans Philippe that's a 0:22:01.240 --> 0:22:03.439 young immigrant seventeen. 0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:04.240 A culture shock. 0:22:04.320 --> 0:22:06.560 That was the biggest culture shock from I mean, the 0:22:06.560 --> 0:22:08.919 first question I asked my mom was the transpageants, Like, 0:22:08.960 --> 0:22:13.320 there's no transpageants here. But somehow I met this model 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:16.320 who used to model in New York City. She said, 0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:17.600 if you really want to do this, you have to 0:22:17.600 --> 0:22:19.240 move to New York City. And I was like, okay, 0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:21.280 I'm going to move to New York City. And because 0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:24.960 of that thought it opened up that whole floodgate again 0:22:25.000 --> 0:22:26.320 of wanting to be a model. 0:22:27.359 --> 0:22:28.000 I wanted to. 0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:31.119 Pursue it, but the fear is always there that you know, 0:22:34.160 --> 0:22:37.160 anyone could out me and it would destroy people's career 0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:39.600 like it happened to It's well documented, it happened to 0:22:40.640 --> 0:22:44.200 so many trans women, trans particularly trans woman of color, 0:22:44.359 --> 0:22:48.600 that the moment they got out there, they were done, 0:22:48.880 --> 0:22:52.960 you know, discarded. So you have this ambition to be 0:22:53.160 --> 0:22:58.320 so visible, right whether on Times Square, Billboard or doing 0:22:58.359 --> 0:23:02.320 a commercial. You want to do that, but there's risk, 0:23:03.480 --> 0:23:05.720 the bigger the job, the bigger the paranoia that I 0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:10.320 was going through, And honestly, right now, even speaking to 0:23:10.359 --> 0:23:13.359