WEBVTT - The Karol Markowicz Show: Is Journalism Dead with John Ziegler 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.400 Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Marcowitch Show on iHeartRadio. 0:00:09.880 --> 0:00:15.200 My son left for sleepaway camp today. He's eleven. My 0:00:15.320 --> 0:00:17.960 eight year old son joins him in a few weeks, 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:21.520 and my fourteen year old daughter is doing something similar. 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:26.640 It's the worst. Being apart from them is just terrible. 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:29.639 I miss them every day, and I miss them like 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:33.080 I turn to say something to them and realize they're 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:33.600 not there. 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:35.320 Just awful. 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:38.800 I think a lot of people hear this perspective and think, oh, 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:43.080 that's obvious. But some parents, and absolutely no judgment for 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:45.479 me on this, enjoy when their kids go. 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:47.920 They take trips, they. 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:51.600 Invigorate their marriage, and a lot of people say their 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:54.920 families are happier and healthier when the kids return. All 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:58.640 of this to say, it's definitely a net positive for 0:00:58.720 --> 0:00:59.680 families who do it. 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:01.120 Why would they? 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:04.000 And I know this, but I still hate it? 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:05.400 So why do it? Right? 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:08.120 That's a question I ask myself after they've. 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:08.920 Been gone a few weeks. 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:12.039 Why send my children out into the world like that? 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:14.320 I just want to keep them. 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:14.679 Close to me. 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:18.760 And you know, partially it's because this is what American 0:01:18.840 --> 0:01:21.240 Jews do. I mean, non Jews go to sleep away 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:23.880 camp too, But it's a real big part of the 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:28.240 American Jewish experience. I didn't do it growing up because 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:31.200 I was an immigrant from the Soviet Union, and even 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:34.480 if my parents somehow had the money, they probably wouldn't 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:38.319 have known that sleep away camps existed. But I have 0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:41.760 little American kids, and part of our religious experience in 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:45.440 this country involved sleep away camp. But also the kids 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:49.600 love it, and again they come back happy, mature, having 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:54.080 done things for themselves, lived a life outside the family bubble, 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:57.240 made new friends, challenge themselves. I mean, the whole thing. 0:01:57.560 --> 0:01:59.160 There are a lot of things that are good for 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:04.320 kids that we don't necessarily like. Struggle is good for kids, 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:06.320 but it's kind of hard to watch that from a 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:10.440 parent's perspective. Having to try hard is good, learning how 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:13.239 to get along with other people, all of it. It's 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:15.920 hard to watch them fail, it's hard to be apart 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:18.720 from them, but all of it leads to a better 0:02:18.800 --> 0:02:22.120 outcome for them. It's funny. COVID has been back in 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:25.320 the news the last few days as Anthony Fauci again 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:29.280 pretends he had no power or influence and never locked 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:32.160 anyone down or put anyone in a mask. It brings 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:35.320 up all the old feelings of feeling bad at the 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:37.240 time that I was not able to do what I 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:39.800 felt was right for my kids, and having to listen 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:43.000 to these idiotic guidelines that made no sense. And the 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:47.640 worst part I remember this so clearly, was being accused 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:50.480 of just wanting free babysitting when I would push for 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:53.880 schools to open. And the truth was that that time, 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:57.240 that cozy time at home where we didn't see anyone 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:00.720 or have to do anything, it was great. I loved it, 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:03.200 but I knew it was bad for them, so I 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:06.280 pushed for that time to end. Sometimes the things that 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:09.679 feel good for the parent aren't necessarily what's best for 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:13.880 the kids. It's a hard but necessary lesson. Keep sending 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:16.560 in your ideas for new questions for the guests. As 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:18.520 I mentioned when I hit the one year mark of 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:20.760 the show in October, I'm going to switch up my 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:24.560 three standard questions, so if you have ideas for what 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:25.320 they should be. 0:03:25.480 --> 0:03:25.960 Let me know. 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:29.600 I've already gotten some really good ones. The email is 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:32.720 Carol Maarkowitz Show at gmail dot com or tweet at 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:36.200 me on X Thank you for listening. Coming up next 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:39.360 and interview with John Ziggler join us after the break. 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:46.880 Welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:49.560 guest today is John Ziggler, host of the Death of 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:50.840 Journalism podcast. 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:52.480 Hi John, So nice to have you on. 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:54.440 Always great to talk to you, Carol. 0:03:55.320 --> 0:04:01.120 So, how dead is journalism on a scale of like 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:02.640 one to like very dead? 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:06.720 I would say eleven. This one goes to eleven in 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:08.800 my opinion. That's why we do a podcast called The 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:11.760 Debt of Journalism. I think this has been a long 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:14.280 time in coming. I think there are a lot of 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:17.000 reasons for it. But yeah, it's pretty much about as 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:20.080 dead as it could possibly be, and we see examples 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:22.680 of it almost every single day. In fact, you know, 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:24.960 when I started this podcast, Carol, I thought, am I 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:28.080 really going to be able to do two hour podcasts 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:32.480 per week focusing on this topic? And if anything, I 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:36.440 find myself having to cut material in order to keep 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:39.039 the podcast from getting too long because there's just so 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:42.039 much evidence of it on a daily basis, as you 0:04:42.080 --> 0:04:42.440 well know. 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:46.039 So does it matter that journalism is dead or is 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:47.200 this a problem for us? 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:48.240 Well? 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:49.560 I think it's a huge problem. 0:04:49.920 --> 0:04:54.200 I think that our entire system of government is based 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:58.120 upon the fourth of state being at least somewhat relevant 0:04:58.160 --> 0:04:58.800 and competent. 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:01.920 It's not, and it's not in a lot of ways. 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:06.200 This goes way beyond just normal political bias. You know, 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:10.119 when I'm fifty seven years old, when I started being 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:13.160 interested in politics, way way back in the nineteen seventies 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:17.040 early eighties, you know, that was the big thing, liberal 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:18.440 bias in the news media. 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:22.039 To me, I long for those days. I long for 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:25.080 the days of where that was the biggest problem in 0:05:25.080 --> 0:05:25.640 the news media. 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:28.720 It was just that there was a pretty significant liberal bias. 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:32.279 We are so far beyond that now. It's the whole 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:35.880 system is broken. And the main reason there are many 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:37.800 reasons for this, but the main reason is that the 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:43.200 business model for the news media broke horrendously catastrophically. We're 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:47.440 seeing that almost on a daily basis now, in dramatic fashion. 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:51.479 I mean, it's remarkable how fast the old media is 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:54.600 collapsing right before our eyes. And you know, a lot 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:56.919 of conservatives, Caro W'll probably take joy in that. 0:05:57.920 --> 0:05:58.800 I don't take as. 0:05:58.760 --> 0:06:03.400 Much joy because I think that there's a really important 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:08.000 role to play not just in fair reporting, but also 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:10.800 in educating the public. And I don't think it's a 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:14.560 coincidence that the public seems to be less educated about 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:17.320 important topics than they have ever been in probably the 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:18.279 history of the country. 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:20.960 Yeah, I mean that's absolutely right. 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:23.560 So you know, when you're talking about this, I'm thinking 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:25.640 to myself, like, what do I think is the biggest 0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:29.080 problem with the media, And obviously the bias is a 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:33.160 huge thing, but that they're so frequently wrong and they 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:36.760 don't correct anything. Like I just could think of plenty 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:40.440 of examples recently where the New York Times, which I 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:43.240 don't really read that much anymore, partly because it's so wrong, 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:45.960 but I read like the newsletters they send out, so 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:50.960 they get things just plain factually incorrect frequently and it 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:52.080 never gets corrected. 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:55.080 What would you say is kind of the biggest issue here? 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:57.840 Well, you and I I think I have are a 0:06:58.040 --> 0:06:59.880 like mind when it comes to what I call the 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:04.520 COVID panic. And what we just saw was really remarkable 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:07.720 and in so many different ways, But the media was 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:15.000 dead wrong in unison on many things regarding COVID, not everything. 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:17.840 And look, I hear a lot of people say, wow, we. 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:20.960 Didn't know, we didn't know, right, we knew, Well. 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:22.520 You knew I knew. 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:24.960 I mean, you know, and I'm not that smart you are, 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:26.720 but I'm saying I'm all that smart. 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:29.600 You know, I just read some things and things didn't 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:32.200 make sense, and you know, that's that's really where it 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:33.600 all came from, right, And. 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:39.640 I think that there is a massive deficit of trust 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:41.640 post COVID. I don't know if you saw it, but 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:44.640 I guess I think he was your former governor, and 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:49.840 Anthony Cuomo recently acknowledged, and that there is that if 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:52.840 they did the same things again from a government perspective 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:56.320 as they did during the COVID panic, that the public would. 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:59.200 Not trust us. Well, a huge part of that is 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:00.840 so right. 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:03.400 Oh yeah, I thought that was actually being somewhat optimistic 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:07.640 because I because if you, if you haven't lost trust 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:10.080 in the government and the media. And let's be clear, Carol, 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:14.240 never in my lifetime has the government and the mainstream 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:18.720 news media worked hand in hand more significantly than they 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:20.000 did during the COVID panic. 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:21.440 It's never happened before. 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:24.320 This was not the way it was supposed to operate, 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:28.040 but they did so. And the most remarkable aspect of 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:31.360 this was they were wrong way more than they were right, 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:33.960 and it wasn't even close. And you know, to me, 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:37.880 the most glaring example, I think there's a little ambiguity 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:39.960 with regard to the vaccines, but they were totally wrong 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:42.520 about you know, whether there should be mandates. That's one 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:45.760 hundred percent true. There should never have been mandates for 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:49.000 a vaccine like that that didn't stop transmission and all 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:51.959 the other issues with it. But to me, if you still, 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:57.120 in twenty twenty four believe that masks work to stop COVID, 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:01.920 then I can't help you because there's never been a 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:04.839 major issue about which the reality was. 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:08.240 So obviously the opposite of what the media told us. 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:12.559 They vowed for masks because the government did so, and 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:17.160 they were wrong, and many, many millions of school children 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:20.600 especially were harmed because of this. This wasn't just a 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:24.600 minor inconvenience. This was a situation where people's lives were 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:28.959 dramatically impacted, especially when it came to schooling, and we've 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:33.079 never gotten any acknowledgment that they were wrong. To this day, 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:36.880 the main streamers media won't fully admit that masks don't work. 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:40.280 And I believe if we had another pandemic. 0:09:39.840 --> 0:09:43.120 Again, we'd still, especially in the blue states like here, 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:46.600 in California, people would mask at least forty fifty percent 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:50.720 of the population would mask up automatically. And it's just astonishing. 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:53.000 It's astonishing that we're still living in that world care. 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:56.600 You know, I'm still pissed off about the mask thing 0:09:57.000 --> 0:09:59.920 because it hasn't been touched. Like they're kind of there 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:02.520 inching closer to lots of stuff, Like a lot of 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:05.360 them have admitted that the six feet you know requirement 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:08.960 made no sense and didn't come from anything scientific. They've 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:11.680 admitted that maybe schools should have been open the whole time, 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:15.480 But nobody has touched masks, and we know that it 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:16.080 was bullshit. 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:17.880 We know that it didn't do anything. 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:21.679 We absolutely have no data to suggest otherwise. And you're right, 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:24.880 I think should there be another pandemic, I think a 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:26.600 large number of people would be. 0:10:26.600 --> 0:10:27.559 Right back in the masks. 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:30.719 I you know, my thing about masks is if you 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:32.880 believe it works, why wouldn't. 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:34.800 You wear it all the time, one hundred percent of 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:35.400 the time. 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:38.480 Like, if it keeps you from getting sick always, why 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:39.160 not wear them? 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:39.520 Right? 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:41.559 And people are like, oh, well, because I was afraid 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:43.640 of dying of COVID. But even that, you knew you 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:45.440 weren't going to die of COVID, you knew what the 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:46.320 percentages were. 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:49.040 I mean, I hope, and yet you know. 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:52.400 You continued doing this crazy thing for so long, and 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:54.880 so you know, I think it's a hopeful, hopeful thing 0:10:54.920 --> 0:10:56.240 that they wouldn't do it again. 0:10:56.520 --> 0:10:59.520 Well, let me explain why they've never corrected themselves. It's 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:01.960 not just not wanting to admit they were wrong, which 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:04.480 is a huge part of the mainstream news media, because 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:07.600 these are all egomaniacs who think that they are smarter 0:11:07.720 --> 0:11:09.320 than the rest of us, So they don't want to 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:12.200 admit they were wrong. That's always number one. But the 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:15.880 biggest part of the problem is for the mainstream element. 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:18.920 You know, outlets like the New York Times, their subscriber 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:23.040 base is extremely liberal, and they are part of the 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:26.199 mask cult, and they don't want to have to tell 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:32.240 their cult, their base of subscribers that they were duped, 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:36.080 that they did something for two years that they didn't 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:39.720 have to do, so they'd rather just pretend it never happened. 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:42.120 Because you know, we've seen this on the right. You know, 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:44.040 neither of us are fans of Donald Trump. 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:45.800 You know, the right. 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:48.520 Wing media won't say anything that will offend the Trump 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:51.480 cult members. Well, the mainstream media won't say anything that 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:55.840 will offend the mass cult. And the most dramatic example, 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:58.200 and there are so many, there are hundreds during the 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:01.120 COVID panic, but I'm sure you remember one. There was 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:05.120 a Dutch study early on they'd indicated, oh guess what, 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:09.679 masks don't work? Right in The New York Times originally 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:13.920 printed a headline it says, massive Dutch study indicates masks 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:16.080 don't really work. That's a paraphrase, right, That was basically 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:19.400 what they the original headline was. They got so much 0:12:19.480 --> 0:12:22.920 blowback from their subscriber base and for people on Twitter, 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:26.720 they changed the headline to say something along the lines 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:28.840 of masks may not work, but here's why you should 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:29.600 wear one. 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.440 Anyway, right, right, right. That's not literally what. 0:12:32.360 --> 0:12:36.280 The headline said. And that's not news, that's not journalism. 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:38.839 That's therapy. That's therapy. 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:41.600 So hard to understand why no one trusts. 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:43.439 Them, Just bizarre, exactly. 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:45.000 I was thinking about this. 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:49.960 You know, you've taken some very controversial opinions obviously, and 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:52.320 you know, I could think of some that were very 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:56.200 very controversial or you know, outside of kind of the 0:12:56.760 --> 0:12:59.240 I don't say norm right, just you believe things that 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:00.840 not everybody leaves. 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:01.920 Does it feel good? 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:04.560 Because for me, I honestly would. 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:06.200 Prefer if everybody just agreed with me. 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:10.240 I really would. It's not I'm not like there to 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:12.800 have the argument. I'm having the argument because I think 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:15.440 you have to. But I prefer I would prefer if 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:18.800 everyone would just fall into line and believe me when 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:20.600 I You know, when I argue. 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:24.120 And be on my side. Do you enjoy the strife? 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:26.280 No, I actually don't. 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.760 I wish I did not have to go through some 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:32.679 of the things I've gone through standing up for unpopular positions. 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:35.800 By the way, I'm almost always right when I do that, 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:39.000 because I don't do so casually. I only do so 0:13:39.120 --> 0:13:43.000 when I am positive that I am right, like for instance, 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:46.240 with COVID. And I actually think, Carol, that some of 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:51.440 the situations I've been in prepared me for the COVID panic. 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:53.079 That's I think one of the reasons. 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:55.000 Why I not that I was special, but I was 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:58.360 certainly one of those at the forefront, right at the start, 0:13:58.440 --> 0:13:59.559 saying WHOA, WHOA, WHOA? 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:02.199 Hold on here, what are we doing? 0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:05.079 And it's the reason why I was more than there 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:07.640 were two reasons why I was willing to do this. 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:11.240 One because you know, it's Churchill's old saying, the greatest 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:14.240 exhilaration the man can feel is being shot without result. 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:17.199 And I've been shot many times and I'm still standing, 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:19.400 So I don't fear the attacks. 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:20.160 That's number one. 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:24.280 But number two, I had seen the same kind of 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:29.560 panic in other situations and what happens under those circumstances, 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:32.280 so I felt like I was prepared. And I also, 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:35.480 I guess this is number three. I understand the media 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:39.040 exceedingly well. I mean, I've been in every aspect of 0:14:39.080 --> 0:14:41.960 the media throughout a very long and tumultuous and bizarre 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:43.080 media career. 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:45.720 I know a lot of these people. I've dealt with them. 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:50.160 I get them probably better than they get themselves, and 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:53.640 so I knew exactly how this was going to go down, 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:56.640 and I, you know, talk about it controversial things. I 0:14:56.680 --> 0:14:59.080 am of the belief, Carol, this is a little bit 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:00.840 far field, but I guess a sense of where I'm 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:04.520 going with this. I believe to my dying breath that 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:08.040 if Hillary Clinton had been president during the COVID panic, 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:10.040 there would not have been a COVID panic, not because 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:16.040 Hillary Clinton was better prepared to handle this than Donald Trump, 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:18.960 but because the media would not have seen it in 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:23.680 their interest to destroy this president and his reelection chances. 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:27.240 I mean, I loathed Trump, but I am easily able 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:30.560 to see that if they had seen the COVID panic 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:32.480 through the prism of oh my god, what's this going 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:35.800 to do to Hillary's reelection campaign all of a sudden, 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:39.240 we would have seen a vastly different narrative out of 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:41.560 the mainstream news media. There would not have been the 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:44.560 same kind of panic, and we certainly wouldn't have seen 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:48.680 the Blue states shutting down immediately, because they would have 0:15:48.720 --> 0:15:50.200 been like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what are you doing? 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:53.280 You're putting Hillary's reelection in jeopardy here. 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:56.520 Gavin Newsome, as you well know, was the person that 0:15:56.560 --> 0:16:00.000 effectively shut the country down. There's no chance he does 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:03.520 that if Hillary Clinton is running for reelection in twenty sixteen. 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:05.640 We're going to take a quick break and be right 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:12.120 back on the Carol Marcowitch Show. The fact that Europe 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:16.840 also freaked out in Asia, I think it was a mass. 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:18.240 Like absolutely not help. 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:20.360 But I I look, there would have been it still 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:22.120 would have been a big deal. I'm not pretending the 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:23.400 whole thing was about Trump. 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:24.480 No, I'm hearing you. 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:28.800 Yeah, I'm saying I'm saying that, you know, there would 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:31.320 have been an argument to be made. The United States 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:33.640 is different. You know, we got the Statue of Liberty. 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.880 We're going to stand up strong. We're not going to panic. 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:39.320 We're gonna do We're gonna get through this together. 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:40.200 You know this. 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:43.080 You know we're we're not going to destroy our principles 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:46.080 over this. Uh and and you know we're gonna come 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:48.440 out stronger in the end. That would have been it 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.240 would have been a you know, already referenced Churchill once. 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:54.240 It would have been a Churchill World War two type 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:58.760 of reaction, rather than the curl into the fetal position, 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:02.520 wear a mask, shut down schools, and forget about your 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:05.400 damn freedoms. We're now living in a country of tyranny, 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:07.840 especially if you live in a blue state. And so 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:11.960 I really and by the way, Carol, I tried to 0:17:12.000 --> 0:17:16.359 write about my theory during COVID for a rather mainstream 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:18.520 news outlet that I was working for at the time. 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:20.840 I'm not going to mention it right now, but I 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:24.840 was that I was never censored. This outlet previously, I 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:26.920 was censured from writing that take. 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:28.720 Censored that's crazy. 0:17:28.800 --> 0:17:31.280 That's not a crazy take. I mean maybe just I'm 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:32.280 seeing it through like. 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:38.720 Take because at the time I was basically saying, what 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:39.960 the heck are we doing here? 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:42.639 That this is all political, or at least the. 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:47.000 Lens through which everyone is seeing this is political, and 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:48.520 some of them was subconscious. 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:49.760 I'm not saying that this was. 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:53.840 I'm I'm a very anti conspiracy type of person, which 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:56.480 makes me unusual on the right these days because I'm 0:17:56.480 --> 0:18:00.600 also yeah, the right, the right is dominated by conspiracies unfortunately, 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:01.600 and the era of Trump. 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.760 But so I'm not even suggesting this was, oh, we 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:07.680 can get Trump with this COVID virus. That's not what happened. 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:11.639 People just they realized, oh my gosh, well, you know, 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:15.000 one they panicked, and two the nice side effect of 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:19.280 this is we're going to destroy child Trump's election. Yeah, 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:22.520 and so we can go we can go pedal the 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:27.000 metal on this with our craziness because there's no downside politically, 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:30.640 and I think they were vindicated in that because obviously 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:33.040 Trump lost the election, although I'm not sure he would 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:33.639 acknowledge that. 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:37.680 So this leads me into a question that I ask 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:40.960 all of my guests, and that's what would you say 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:44.480 is our largest cultural issue? And is it the fact 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:47.400 that people will just do whatever they're told? 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:49.080 Wow, we have. 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:52.200 So many And I guess you when you say issue, 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:55.320 you mean what problem do we have culturally? 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:56.280 That's the biggest? 0:18:56.320 --> 0:19:00.520 Well, to me, public ignorance is number one, as everything 0:19:00.560 --> 0:19:05.000 flows from that. But but related to that is a 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:09.959 complete lack of belief in our basic founding principles, foremost 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:12.440 among them freedom of speech. I mean, I'm a I'm 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:16.159 a conservative libertarian. I'm a big free speech guy. It 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:21.439 is really scary, especially how younger people view the issue 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:25.680 of free speech. And you know, I mean, we're seeing 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:28.960 it right now with the Kansas City Chief kicker Harrison Putcker. 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:31.239 I don't agree with everything he said. I got two 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:32.000 young daughters. 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:35.600 But the idea that the you know, the liberal elites 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:37.879 and the National Football League and everyone else are going 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:41.840 down on him this hard for simply giving a commencement address. 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:44.400 He didn't hurt anybody, didn't hurt anybody. 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:48.080 They're going after him harder than they do NFL players 0:19:48.080 --> 0:19:51.399 who beat the crap out of women physically. And I 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:54.160 really think Carol, part of it, part of it's political 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:57.240 right because it's seen its conservative. We can't we can't 0:19:57.240 --> 0:19:59.879 have a conservatives taking out in the mainstream like this, 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:02.840 especially for Taylor Swift's team. We can't do that. But 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:07.600