WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 153 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:03.160 A Zone Media. 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:05.680 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:09.400 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:12.680 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:16.520 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:19.000 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:20.959 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:22.720 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:28.200 you can make your own decisions. Oh, welcome back to 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:31.600 It could Happen Here a podcast about it happening. Here. 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:35.120 Things falling apart, and today the thing that is falling 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:39.560 apart is info Wars. Now, this is not a new situation. 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:42.800 Info Wars has been falling apart for like half a 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:46.919 decade now, but we are reaching certainly a point in 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:49.839 that process. And to talk about that point, I have 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:52.599 been bringing on really the only two people you can 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:55.720 bring on if you want an expert opinion on Alex Jones, 0:00:56.360 --> 0:01:01.240 Dan and Jordan of Knowledge Fight Dan Jordan, Welcome to 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:01.840 the program. 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:04.160 Hello, Thank you for having us. 0:01:04.360 --> 0:01:04.720 Hello. 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:08.679 You can bring us on to tell you things that 0:01:09.280 --> 0:01:12.679 every other expert in the world will say are wrong. 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:13.800 Yeah, yeah, Well. 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:16.920 It's nice to know that we are once again at 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:20.240 that point where shit is looking that bad for Alex yep, 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:24.960 that it's relevant for us to, uh yeah, get to start. 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:26.080 Doing your media tours. 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:29.959 Yeah, I mean, I mean, hey, well we're I'm enjoying 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:33.120 this because I know we're gonna see you next year 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:35.080 to have the same conversation. 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:37.759 And I was flashing back to earlier times we've talked. 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:41.080 We've probably been like, hey, things are looking bad for Alex. 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:43.480 Oh yeah, my fingers are crossed that he gets a 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:46.640 bad batch of supplements and goes on like not a 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:49.680 sad murdering spree, but like a cannibal spree, Like he 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:52.840 eats three or four people. And then the news like 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:55.760 you guys, you guys are on fucking CNN talking about well, 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:59.600 actually Alex has been discussing eating people for quite some time. Sure, 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:03.680 this is this is really a long story for him. Really, 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:06.080 anyone should have seen this coming up. The lighting was 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:08.960 on the wall. This is some of the least surprising 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:10.800 cannibalism in media history. 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:14.680 It turns out this supplement, it didn't make him a cannibal. 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:17.160 It just brought out that cannibal that was already there. 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:20.919 Yeah, that's what the iodine does first before we get 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:23.800 into it. You know, elephant in the room, by which 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:28.160 I mean Dan, you look like you're ready to lead 0:02:28.400 --> 0:02:31.240 the Union Army in a series of Civil War battles. 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:33.200 That's a compliment to your facial hair. 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:36.639 So by elephant you mean the tusks. Yes, well, thank 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:39.799 you very much. I'm learning to accept compliments. Yeah, I've 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:43.880 got a ridiculous handlebar situation that I did as a joke. 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:46.360 I got this as a joke to go to undercover 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:47.960 to a Tucker Carlson event. 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:50.280 That's an incredible decision. 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:52.679 And then the positive feedback spit too much for me 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:53.200 to handle. 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:53.880 It's good. 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:56.400 Well, I mean, this is really changing things for me 0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:59.240 because prior to seeing this, Jordan would have been my 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:01.840 go to if I needed someone to help me burn Atlanta. 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:04.800 But now I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:06.040 could be either of you. 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:08.520 There's a lot of Civil war jokes, a lot of 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:12.600 hitting home runs in the seventies, sure, sure jokes. 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:15.120 So okay, I have a whole subreddit full of people 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:17.760 that just photoshot my face on the pictures of rass Button. 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:20.200 So it's what happens. 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:26.800 Speaking of ras Button, he was psychic, and so is Alex. 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:29.880 According to Alex. Yeah, yeah, what do you guys want 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:32.000 to start here, because like, obviously the big news right 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:34.920 now is all of info Wars is up for auction, 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:39.480 including apparently Alex is twittering. It sounds like will probably 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:41.480 be part of the deal, although I guess that's a 0:03:41.520 --> 0:03:42.720 little unclear right now. 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:47.080 He's trying to fight that inclusion of the Twitter handle 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:51.560 in his bankruptcy estate. But I think almost anybody could 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:54.600 make a pretty solid argument that it's company property. Yeah, 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:57.840 Like he uses it to broadcast his show. He takes 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:01.520 calls on it for his show, Yeah, from Twitter spaces, 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:04.600 So like, yeah, he's probably going to lose that fight, 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:06.400 and it's probably going to be part of the auction. 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:09.000 Yeah, But I mean, at the same time, him not 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:12.440 having it makes it valueless, so it's worthless. 0:04:12.560 --> 0:04:12.920 Yeah. 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:15.200 So if I were going to auction it, it would 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:18.120 be worth zero dollars, But if I were going to 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:20.279 give it to Alex, it would be worth to him 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:22.520 millions upon millions of dollars. 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:23.719 And that's the issue here. 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:27.080 Yeah, it does kind of seem and I listened to 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:30.320 Alex primarily through you, but it does seem like, from 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:32.480 what I'm here on your show, he's kind of more 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:35.839 concerned about the Twitter account than the multimillion dollar studio 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:37.279 space yeah time. 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:41.720 Yeah, yeah, which actually is kind of funny because I 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:45.160 think it belies a lack of confidence. Yeah, because I 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:48.240 think if he loses real Alex Jones on Twitter, he 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:50.400 could have reeler Alex Jones. Yep. 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:53.160 It doesn't seem like that would be a problem for him. Actually, 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:54.919 do you think. 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:57.240 You can't gather this audience back together. 0:04:57.440 --> 0:04:59.680 I think that's the problem. He's worried he can't get 0:04:59.680 --> 0:04:59.960 it back. 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:00.400 Yeah. 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:04.120 Yeah, well and specifically him, Like Elon would tell people 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:06.200 to follow him, there'd be a bunch of people with 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:08.440 huge accounts saying this is the new Alex yit Like, 0:05:08.480 --> 0:05:10.280 I really don't think it would be much more than 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:12.880 a speed bump. Actually, unfortunately you. 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:14.760 Can think that, but these aren't your friends. 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:20.000 Can't trust Elon fucking Musk help you out. 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:25.280 I do think that there's an abandonment fear possibly, yeah, 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:28.240 or some some sort of lack of confidence that like, 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:32.240 if this speed bump does hit, I won't be able 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:32.799 to rebuild. 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:33.080 Yeah. 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:34.000 No, And it makes sense. 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:37.080 Yeah, I think it's delusional. I think he's totally fine. 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.320 Start one hundred new Twitter accounts. You'd get a million 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:41.680 followers on all of those, agreed. 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:45.039 Yeah, yeah, But I mean he's delusionable about just about everything, 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:47.520 so it makes sense that in this case he would 0:05:47.560 --> 0:05:49.120 be delusional in the wrong direction. 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:49.760 That's true. 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:52.880 Yeah, So yeah, how does this seem to be going? 0:05:53.520 --> 0:05:55.840 My big concern when I'm when I'm thinking about it, 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:59.440 is like, well, there's probably someone rich out there, some 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:03.640 like rich asshole, you know, think tank funding oil billionaire 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:06.719 that would consider it chump change to buy all this 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:08.640 shit up and just give it back to Alex. But 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:11.760 my understanding is that that's not actually like a thing 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:14.320 you can do in these kind of situations. Although I'm 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:15.840 not not an expert. 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:17.440 On it, Oh, I think you can. Yeah. 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:20.800 The trustee has the ability to even say, like if 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:23.120 there is if there was like a bid that was 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:26.080 from whomever you want to say, like out of nowhere, 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:27.120 George Soros, if you. 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:30.960 Like, fucking William Regnery the fifth or whichever rignary were 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:32.560 on now, Yeah, yeah. 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:37.719 Ten billion dollars more money than God could imagine. But 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:40.360 the trustee you wanted it to stay in right wing 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:42.960 billionaire hands. He could give it to somebody who bid 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.200 six million dollars for it or five, don't. 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:48.479 I don't think that that's actually accurate, fully, And I 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:52.920 also don't think that the trustee is beholden to Alex 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:53.520 in any way. 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:54.800 I'm saying that. 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:57.080 I'm just saying that there is that level of control 0:06:57.279 --> 0:07:00.039 that is not just like it's going to the highest bidder. 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:03.760 I understand it. The trustees control in terms of that 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:06.800 is more about a minimum bid. Like, if there were 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:09.920 higher bids, it would be very difficult to rationalize not 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:12.640 taking them if they are from people who have the 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:17.280 actual money. Sure, aren't I guess involved with terrorism, sure 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:20.000 or something. Unless there is a concrete reason not to 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:22.480 accept it, I would be surprised. Yeah, if they didn't 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:24.760 accept Soros if he made a bid. 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:25.800 I mean I would be too. 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:29.040 But also, currently we are on surprise number seven and 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:29.800 a half thousand. 0:07:30.280 --> 0:07:30.880 It's not more. 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:33.280 Yeah, so that would be the least surprising thing if 0:07:33.280 --> 0:07:34.280 it was a surprising thing. 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:34.960 Yeah, I guess. 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:35.120 So. 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:38.000 I think we're all agreed. Alex isn't going to just 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:41.040 shut up and ride into the sunset. He's physically incapable 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:44.280 of doing that. Like he would literally literally explode like 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:47.640 a soda with mintos dropped into it if that were 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:52.200 to happen. Yeah, But also there's a massive judgment on him, right, 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:55.440 So my understanding is that like any money beyond whatever 0:07:55.520 --> 0:08:00.000 a court decides would be necessary for him to maintain existence, 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:03.080 although I understand there's also like ways you can fuck 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:05.000 around with that too, Like what do you guys know about, 0:08:05.600 --> 0:08:08.080 like what kind of limitations the court has placed on 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:11.000 Alex for the future after all of his shit gets 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:12.240 sold out from underneath him. 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:16.640 Well, I don't know about like specific details, but because 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:21.720 his judgment was deemed to be like malicious and intentional, 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:26.760 the amount that he owes personally is not dischargeable by bankruptcy. Yeah, 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:30.880 so he's in chapter seven bankruptcy now personally, and so 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:33.640 he's liquidating all the assets. So he has to sell 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:35.319 off the company, which is how we get to the 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:38.320 auction in the first place. And so he will sell 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:43.199 off these assets to go towards the payment of these people. 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:47.959 But that's not going to erase the debts and set 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:52.280 things even so in theory, he could be hounded for 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:55.040 the rest of his life. Sure, he could have wages 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:59.880 garnished have some oversight of his finances in theory. Yeah, 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.920 to the amount that that's exercised, I'm not sure how 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:05.240 much it will be, but yeah, that's going to be 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:07.280 hanging over him for the rest of his life. Yeah. 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:10.800 Or I mean, if I was him, and based on 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:12.800 how things are going for him so far and the 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:17.200 direction things are taking, then once this is handled, then 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:19.000 he's going to move all of his money to Alex 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:22.160 jonestore dot com. And then once they catch him there, 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:25.000 he's gonna move all of his money to Alex jonestore 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:27.679 dot com two. And then once they catch him there, 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:30.240 he's gonna move his stuff to Alex Jones dot com three. 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:35.560 Until eventually everybody gets so fucking tired that they're like, fine, 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:38.680 either we're no longer going to come after you, or 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:40.640 will settle for fucking nothing. 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:43.400 Yeah, Because and him and his lawyers explained that even 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:46.280 as part of their legal strategy early on, which is 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:50.320 that you exhaust people with delays and to the point 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:52.600 where someone's just willing to settle because you're such a 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:54.640 pain in the ass. Yeah, And that's just kind of 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:56.320 his mode of operation. 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.880 Yeah, And every time people have been like, well, clearly 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:02.680 you can't continue to be a pain in the ass 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:06.360 this way anymore. It won't be allowed. It has instead 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:08.199 been allowed, so you can do it. 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:08.720 It's fun. 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:11.440 I don't want to get like in the way of 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:14.920 people's you know, celebrating the downfall of Alex Jones. But 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:18.800 it does kind of seem like nothing realistically is going 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:22.160 to stop him from being rich and being able to 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:25.720 talk to an audience of people who are dangerously devoted 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:27.880 to his shit. Like none of this is actually going 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:31.439 to I'm sure it's unpleasant and stressful, right, but it's 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:33.960 not going to stop him. It's just not possible. 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:37.560 Yeah, this is why you get other experts, because I 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:39.480 do want to get in the way of people enjoying 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:41.440 quote unquote info. 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:45.120 I'm just talking about like when I'm when I'm watching 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:48.800 people celebrate on Twitter, like you can't correct everybody. It's 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:52.480 like whenever, whenever there's like this info about Alex Jones 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:54.719 that people listen to your show, know, like there was 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:57.280 a period of time where I would correct people about 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:00.960 that or really literally anything else. And I've increasing the 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:03.880 out to the point where like everyone's wrong about almost 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:05.920 everything they say on the Internet, and there's really no 0:11:06.000 --> 0:11:08.760 point in correcting anybody about it anymore, Like, what am 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:11.360 I going to do? How is this going to help? 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:15.360 Yeah? I see people like posting videos of Alex crying, yeah, 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:17.880 and like changing the context of what it is for 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:22.240 some post and it's like, you guys are just it's 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:25.480 not worth the energy to correct here. Yeah, to your point, though, 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:29.679 Jordanan does want to stop people from celebrating and ruining 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:33.840 everyone's fun. I'm in the middle, okay. I would like 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:35.400 people to be a little half at the time to 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:37.000 do it. I want people to be a little bit 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:42.280 more realistic about their expectations, people being like celebrating prematurely, 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:45.000 Like you're just gonna have to deal with the hangover 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:49.160 of this. That is, there's a pretty decent chance somebody 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:51.520 aligned with Alex is going to buy the company and 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:54.320 then all of it is going to get just given 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:59.200 back to him, And it's equally likely that someone you know, 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:01.840 like a Soro or whatever, does end up buying it. 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:06.680 Info Wars is destroyed and Alex's revenue streams remain intact 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:10.160 because his dad runs his supplement company now that's outside 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:12.920 of the bankruptcy. He shifted all of his merch over 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:15.920 to this Alex Jones store dot com that's run by 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:19.560 somebody else, So like all the meaningful ways that he 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:22.480 can make money are now protected, and he can just 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:27.080 start Alex Jones Fuck Around Hour or whatever and have 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:30.959 these people be sponsors, and you know, it'll feel fun 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:33.520 that Info Wars is gone or someone else bought it 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:35.800 or whatever. But like you know, like you're saying, Robert, 0:12:35.840 --> 0:12:38.920 it doesn't it doesn't really address the issue, and nothing 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:40.680 is nothing's really gained. 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:44.360 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's kind of been a massive waste 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:47.640 of everybody's time. But but a lot of lawyers are 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:49.720 ever going to make a lot of money, so that's good. 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:52.680 It does seem if I'm going out of my way 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:55.000 to kind of look at what are the most positive 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:57.800 results of this, Like if I mean, it does look 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:00.199 like he's probably going to lose control of all all 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:03.720 of the shit that they have to film Info Wars, Right, 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:07.960 that won't stop them from filming and doing videos, but 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:11.320 maybe they'll look like crap, and maybe that will have 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:15.080 an impact on like the degree of credence people give them, 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:17.800 you know, like maybe the fact that info Wars has 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:22.120 a nice studio isn't zero percent of like why their 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:24.560 shit gets taken seriously by people. I don't think it's 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:27.880 most of why, but it's not nothing either, otherwise like 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:30.559 they wouldn't be doing it. Like I do think that 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:33.320 that although I don't know, maybe that was in a 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:35.520 different era is when that mattered. 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:39.360 I think it's also psychologically important for him. Yeah, that 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:41.880 might be the most he wants to think he's doing 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:45.880 a real show, and without the trappings of a fake 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:50.480 CNN studio. It's harder to pretend that you're not just 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:53.760 reading Twitter headlines and then getting mad about them. But 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:56.240 I do I do feel like this idea that it's 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:58.120 a waste of time and everything has been a waste 0:13:58.120 --> 0:13:59.800 of time. I just want to give a little bit 0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:03.360 of voice to the fact that it may feel like 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:06.000 a waste of time and nothing has been achieved. But 0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:09.320 you know, if you listen to the perspective of some 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:13.319 of the plaintiffs and some of the families, the ability 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:17.400 to face him in court and reclaim some of the 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:20.640 power that he had over memories, yeah, and the power 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:23.520 and the pain. You know, that isn't something that is 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:26.880 quantifiable in terms of the money or you know, all 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.920 of his feet dragging, but it is something that matters, 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:34.080 and I don't want to pretend that that hasn't been achieved. 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:37.120 Oh great, as much as it's not the catharsis of 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:40.080 him getting arrested or losing all of his money or 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:40.560 whatever that. 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:44.400 Yeah, well, I mean, I just I think we all 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:48.600 needed to understand clearly from the beginning what this was, 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:51.120 and that would have altered kind of the way that 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:54.680 this is perceived. Like if we had all known from 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:56.720 the jump, Like if all the lawyers and everybody and 0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:58.720 all the media had gotten together and been like, listen, 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:02.520 this is going to be a moral victory, and it's 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:06.080 gonna be good to have this like in public, to 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:09.280 have this airing for all of us to see and 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:10.400 for the families to have. 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:12.200 I think we would have been fine with that. 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:15.880 The problem was all the rest of the stuff was 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:17.160 a waste of everybody's time. 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:20.000 Yeah, does that make sense? Yeah, No, that makes sense 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:20.240 to me. 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:21.000 Yeah. 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:23.320 I think if we had just had that, this could 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:24.880 all have been banged out in a day. 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:25.640 Really. 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:28.360 Yeah, Like we get everybody in court, everybody gets to 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:30.720 say their piece, and then we're done, and Alex gets 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:31.480 to remain rich. 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:34.120 It's basically the same thing. 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:38.120 All right, Well, We're gonna keep talking on this, and 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:40.840 I'm gonna ask you guys for an update on how 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:44.600 Alex is handling the election too. But first, what's all 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:58.480 handle some ads and we're back. You know, this is 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:00.320 one thing, this is gonna right. 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:02.560 I got to stop you. I can't believe you're running 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:03.960 an ad for doctor Jones Natural. 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:08.360 Well, that's just very different, very different naturals. Though, very 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:11.480 different naturals. Not we are, we are using that in 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:15.000 the porn sense. My okay, My Alex Jones deep fake 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:19.000 pornography website is off the ground. For seventy dollars a month. 0:16:19.120 --> 0:16:23.480 You two can have a subscription Doctor j Jones Shrunk Natural. 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:27.400 Yeah yeah, doctor doctor Jones Supplements. 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:29.239 You have some real trunk naturals. 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:34.040 Honestly, most of what I do is just take clips 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.360 from the graduate and uh and put him in as 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:39.760 the as the male elite. I don't know why. 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:41.560 I don't know why to give people what they want. 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:45.440 Anyway, we made forty million dollars last month. 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:47.240 Damn. 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:50.280 Yeah, we should. We should have stopped with this whole 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:51.320 no ads thing. 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:54.000 So I I I want to talk a little bit 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:58.760 about how Alex has been handling the election. Because you know, 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:01.840 one of the things that's always interesting to me is 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:05.399 how his sense about whether or not everyone's doomed to be, 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:08.000 you know, murdered by the New World Order and have 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:11.720 their corpse disposed of by a robot is not related 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:14.560 at all to like how conservatism is doing, how how 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:17.440 his party has picked candidates are doing. It's it's a 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:20.600 pure his own personal vibes, because right now is not 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:23.959 a terrible time if you're a fascist in the United States. 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:25.879 There's a real good chance they're going to have a 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:28.959 have a runaway win here in the next couple of weeks. 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:32.440 But alex is, at least based on the most recent 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:35.080 episode of Knowledge Fight I've listened to more or less 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:37.439 on the everything is fucked and we're all doomed. The 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:39.200 New World Order is going to eat you all things. 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:41.600 I think it's just because he's got the auction team 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:42.959 coming by his office. 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:47.200 Well a spoiler alert in the next episode, he's had 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:50.680 a euphorium moment because he's realized that they're gonna win. 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:55.080 They've already won. You've you're far you're way too far behind. 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:57.800 Now Tomorrow, of course, they will be losing, and we're 0:17:57.800 --> 0:17:58.400 all gonna die. 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:00.000 He's a rapid cycling kind of guy. 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:02.280 I don't do that We're gonna win. 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:05.679 Yeah, but I mean I think I think that, you know, 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:08.240 we've even talked about this before, this dynamic of like 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:11.160 your enemy has to be uh, super strong and then 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:14.320 super defeatable and super weak, like all of that must 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:17.520 exist simultaneously or else. Yeah, you know his game doesn't 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:21.040 really work as well. Yeah, so that that energy is 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:22.840 going to keep going until the election. 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:24.240 And also it makes sense. 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:27.720 I mean, I can't imagine the idea of a bunch 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:31.600 of professional people coming into my home or place of 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:36.400 business and just like cataloging things, just taking each individual pictures, 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:39.680 the amount of stress and nervous energy that that would provide. Yeah, 0:18:39.720 --> 0:18:41.480 like I'd be like I did, I didn't know. I 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:43.240 don't know if I needed to clean that. I don't 0:18:43.240 --> 0:18:44.480 know if I needed to clean it. 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:45.720 She would be getting real. 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:49.440 But yeah, I just like cleaning up my dad's place 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:52.040 after he died was like this whole thing of all 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:54.399 of these are items that have meaning to our family, 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:56.439 and I would be okay burning them all in a 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:57.080 fire in. 0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:59.080 A pit, right yeah, right, Like I'm just I'm done. 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:03.280 I'm done. So I can't imagine like the sense of 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:05.800 fuck it I would have and Alex is, especially if 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:08.800 I had Alex Jones money, like he really it's just 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:11.719 more evidence that there's a deep sickness involved in all 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:14.440 this with him, like he can't stop himself, like yes, 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:17.520 go fish or something, bro like go on a nice 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:20.400 fishing trip. What are you doing sitting in your office 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:24.359 watching your life get picked apart? What a miserable place. 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:26.600 Give everybody the day off. It's great. 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:29.240 Fishing's not going to stop the devil, and that is 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:30.320 really uh, you. 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:32.840 Know, fishing is actually how the devil gets out. It's 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:36.520 every water is a portal to the fifth dimension of Hell, 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:39.520 which is actually the lower fifth. There's a higher fifth 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:43.040 dimension where good demons come I mean, angels come out 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:45.400 of but then the lower fifth dimension comes up through 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:48.000 the pond, and that's where catfish come from. 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:50.919 This is not an Alex theory, but it plausibly could be. 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:53.160 Yeah, I feel like I wasn't far off. 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:56.720 No, no, So how are we? How are we doing 0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:59.359 with Alex in terms of like one thing I've noticed 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:02.320 maybe I have a You can tell me if you 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:04.560 agree with my kind of interpretation here is that he 0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:06.040 seems to be at a little bit of a lower 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:10.159 ebb in terms of getting invited on and talking with 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:13.360 like much more popular creators. I haven't seen like last year, 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:15.640 I felt like I saw him on a lot of stuff, 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:18.040 and this year. I don't know if it's just that 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:20.960 he's not, you know, as sexy as he was to 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:23.719 them last year. But I'm just not seeing him out 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:26.240 as much as I kind of expected to in an election. 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:28.879 And I'm wondering if that's your interpretation too, or if 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:30.560 I'm just kind of you think I'm off. 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:33.439 I think it's fifty to fifty because I think that 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:36.360 there is something to that, Like he was on he's 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:40.119 been on more fun stuff before in the past, and 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:43.200 it's been it's been a little bit limited this year, 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:46.280 but he was just on Tucker's Live show in Pennsylvania, 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:50.480 which is about as big as anything he's done. Probably 0:20:50.960 --> 0:20:52.480 it at least it feels pretty big. 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:54.560 Yeah, it wasn't the two drunk sports guys. 0:20:54.640 --> 0:20:57.840 Yeah, no, flagrant two flagrant too. That might have been 0:20:57.840 --> 0:20:58.840 a few years ago too. 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:01.000 Yeah, my memory is terrible. 0:21:01.200 --> 0:21:03.600 He hasn't been back on Rogan. Yeah, you know, there's 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:06.159 some big there's some big gaps in terms of like 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:09.600 where he feels like he should be appearing. But you know, 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:11.919 if you look at the luminaries that were on the 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:15.560 Tucker Carlson tour, like him being included in that list 0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:18.840 of people is pretty you know, that's that's rarefied air. 0:21:19.080 --> 0:21:21.600 I mean, unfortunately, I guess it is in a way. 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:24.840 You got RFK Junior, Yeah, you got the vic. 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:29.159 They're consequential people, which is the most desruning part is 0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:32.000 that these are the dregs of humanity and yet they 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:34.680 are very consequential people that we should be paying attention. 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:38.359 It's absolutely infuriating that, Yeah, I have to care about 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:41.239 especially fucking Vivac. Yeah, because I ran into him at 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:44.240 the fucking RNC and he was being surrounded by a 0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:47.359 cloud of guys who all looked like Nick Fuintes. Like 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:49.440 the only reason I didn't assume one of them was 0:21:49.520 --> 0:21:51.600 Nick Fuintes is that any one of them could have 0:21:51.640 --> 0:21:55.639 been Nick Fuintes. And I had to fight this urge. 0:21:55.680 --> 0:21:57.720 Do you're seeing those like old man comics, like a 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:00.240 guy I'll be fighting one hundred shrews and like eating 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:02.200 one of them to death with the others, I had 0:22:02.240 --> 0:22:04.320 to fight off the urge to pick up one Fuintes 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:06.840 by the lakes. It just starts swinging him. 0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:07.640 Just start swinging. 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:10.159 You are my weapon. 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:15.320 So like, where do you where do you see Alex 0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:16.359 a year from now? 0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:16.800 Right? 0:22:16.920 --> 0:22:19.680 Like, do you have any kind of expectation for where 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:21.639 he's going to be, because like, at some point his 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:23.880 dad has to die, which I understand is a pretty 0:22:23.880 --> 0:22:25.920 important part right now of how he's able to keep 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:29.520 money flowing well to his operation the face of the judgment, right. 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:33.200 His dad and his brother in law both run. Okay, 0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:37.080 the Doctor Jones naturals, So even if Old David Jones 0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:40.080 catch the bucket, his brother is still going to be there. 0:22:40.480 --> 0:22:42.480 So I think, I think Alex is fine. But he 0:22:42.520 --> 0:22:44.000 almost killed his dad with COVID. 0:22:44.160 --> 0:22:47.119 Yeah yeah, I am surprised Doctor Jones lived through that, 0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:48.360 given alexis. 0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:50.600 Yeah gorilla sitting on his chest, Yeah. 0:22:50.480 --> 0:22:51.240 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:53.320 I think it is a little bit of a testament 0:22:53.359 --> 0:22:57.000 to how insane and how the best torture for Alex 0:22:57.119 --> 0:23:01.080 is just being cursed with being Alex is. Like if 0:23:01.119 --> 0:23:04.159 I was in this scenario where I plausibly have a 0:23:04.200 --> 0:23:07.719 reason to never touch or talk about money again, and 0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:11.080 yet still make the almost exact same amount of it. 0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:13.520 That would be perfect. That's just taking a job away 0:23:13.560 --> 0:23:14.840 from me right now. 0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:18.440 It's my dad's problem to look at the sales numbers. 0:23:18.359 --> 0:23:19.640 Dr tr anywhere else. 0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:22.320 That's not a good ad man. That's the thing you 0:23:22.359 --> 0:23:23.200 can do a good read. 0:23:23.400 --> 0:23:27.040 Yeah, if Alex is the face guy, doctor Jones handles 0:23:27.040 --> 0:23:29.800 the business, that means that Alex doesn't have to do both. 0:23:29.960 --> 0:23:30.920 It makes perfect sense. 0:23:31.440 --> 0:23:35.399 But to your question, though, like I really do feel 0:23:35.440 --> 0:23:40.000 like right now we're in the most chaotic possible moment 0:23:40.560 --> 0:23:43.399 because you have these two things that could go any 0:23:43.440 --> 0:23:46.639 direction that are happening around the same time. Like you 0:23:46.720 --> 0:23:50.280 have the election, and then you also have the auction, right, 0:23:50.520 --> 0:23:54.000 and if Trump wins or loses, there's a lot of 0:23:54.080 --> 0:23:57.480 different possibilities of how his path might go. And if 0:23:57.480 --> 0:24:00.600 someone who he's aligned with ends up buying the company 0:24:01.119 --> 0:24:04.800 or not, that's another Like the world would be very 0:24:04.840 --> 0:24:07.960 different in terms of the choices that he has in 0:24:08.000 --> 0:24:10.040 front of him. Yeah, but I think it'll be bad. 0:24:10.160 --> 0:24:12.960 I think he'll be unhappy that I think, no matter 0:24:13.000 --> 0:24:14.879 what I think, will be pretty miserable. Yeah. 0:24:14.960 --> 0:24:17.480 Yeah, and that's just because of him. He's just a 0:24:17.520 --> 0:24:19.200 real miserable piece of shit. 0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:24.479 Yeah, I spend a lot of time thinking about his 0:24:24.640 --> 0:24:28.359 bee cast and how they might do because I again, 0:24:28.440 --> 0:24:31.000 I I don't see a world in which Alex gives 0:24:31.080 --> 0:24:32.600 up what he's doing. But I do see a world 0:24:32.640 --> 0:24:34.640 in which he can no longer pay Owen Schroyer. 0:24:34.960 --> 0:24:35.080 Uh. 0:24:36.280 --> 0:24:43.040 And that's that's the truth, that's the true goal, when it's. 0:24:42.960 --> 0:24:45.400 Not making what a heartbreaking amount of money. I'm sure 0:24:46.880 --> 0:24:50.320 more further into the six figures than Owen Shrotier ot 0:24:50.320 --> 0:24:50.520 to be. 0:24:52.160 --> 0:24:56.320 I wonder what the deal with him would be though, 0:24:56.400 --> 0:24:58.600 Like he went to jail for Alex. 0:24:58.840 --> 0:25:01.639 God, it's true, he sure did. 0:25:02.040 --> 0:25:06.080 He did. Time, Like what could he tell if he 0:25:06.240 --> 0:25:08.359 was off the payroll or you know, like or how 0:25:08.440 --> 0:25:10.440 much do you pay to keep him on the payroll? 0:25:10.520 --> 0:25:12.439 Because he's the kind of guy who went to jail 0:25:12.520 --> 0:25:12.840 for you. 0:25:13.000 --> 0:25:14.800 I mean, if you look at a I mean, David 0:25:14.880 --> 0:25:16.840 Knight's not going to jail for you. But if that's 0:25:16.920 --> 0:25:21.119 if that's a comparable exit for a personal popularity, I 0:25:21.119 --> 0:25:22.560 don't think Owen's got much of a shot. 0:25:22.720 --> 0:25:24.679 Yeah, I think he can be tossed into the ocean. 0:25:25.080 --> 0:25:27.280 But I think Chase Chase Geyser is more of a 0:25:27.320 --> 0:25:28.840 beat player than Owen. 0:25:29.040 --> 0:25:32.840 We just have a personal he just Chase Geyser is 0:25:32.880 --> 0:25:35.720 a new character who's popped up in the later seasons 0:25:35.760 --> 0:25:36.240 of the show. 0:25:36.400 --> 0:25:37.440 Yeah, and he's. 0:25:37.240 --> 0:25:39.760 Really brought a new He's brought a lot of a 0:25:39.880 --> 0:25:42.320 late season juice to it that I think we needed. 0:25:42.440 --> 0:25:45.200 Yeah, it's better than No One though, that's fr Yeah. 0:25:45.240 --> 0:25:47.160 See I was going to say, it's like when Fraser 0:25:47.160 --> 0:25:52.480 brought on all those British people. But speaking of British people, 0:25:52.920 --> 0:26:08.520 our sponsors might be British. We don't check and we're back. Okay, guys, 0:26:09.160 --> 0:26:12.679 So I guess, kind of closing stuff out, what do 0:26:12.720 --> 0:26:14.919 you think this year have been the big pieces of 0:26:14.960 --> 0:26:19.119 Alex misinformation that you've seen people spreading online? Like, what's 0:26:19.240 --> 0:26:21.280 kind of been your biggest I'm guessing this is gonna 0:26:21.280 --> 0:26:22.480 be a Jordan heavy question, but. 0:26:22.440 --> 0:26:25.720 Like stuff about Alex or stuff yeah, yeah, yeah, stuff 0:26:25.760 --> 0:26:28.879 about Alex that's like specifically, what kind of stuff have 0:26:28.920 --> 0:26:31.240 you heard, like people in media saying about Alex this 0:26:31.359 --> 0:26:34.160 year that has pissed you off the most? I Mean, 0:26:34.240 --> 0:26:36.480 the funny part of this question is that I've actually 0:26:36.680 --> 0:26:40.399 left the Internet about as much as possible because of 0:26:40.480 --> 0:26:43.879 the rage that the rage that I feel at this 0:26:44.080 --> 0:26:45.359 very situation. 0:26:45.160 --> 0:26:46.080 A wise move. 0:26:46.359 --> 0:26:49.760 Yeah, So, I honestly, I think I think the big 0:26:49.800 --> 0:26:53.400 thing for me personally is just the if we are 0:26:53.440 --> 0:26:56.479 going to talk about Alex's auction, then to me, what 0:26:56.560 --> 0:26:59.520 we're talking about is how much money the families are 0:26:59.520 --> 0:27:02.440 going to receive. That's to me in my head of 0:27:02.760 --> 0:27:04.800 if we're gonna talk money, then what we should talk 0:27:04.840 --> 0:27:07.400 about is the end point. How much do the families 0:27:07.440 --> 0:27:12.680 get And even if this auction just goes gangbusters, the 0:27:13.160 --> 0:27:16.960 families are going to get so so little of whatever 0:27:17.040 --> 0:27:20.040 happens because they're the last in line before you pay, 0:27:20.240 --> 0:27:23.840 like Norm Pattis is going to make more money at 0:27:23.840 --> 0:27:26.639 the end of all of this process than any of 0:27:26.680 --> 0:27:27.600 the family members. 0:27:27.920 --> 0:27:30.280 That's just that's just probably. 0:27:29.800 --> 0:27:33.439 True, I would say, if not guaranteed true at this point, 0:27:33.640 --> 0:27:36.520 unless of course Mark Cuban or somebody a billionaire shows 0:27:36.560 --> 0:27:39.560 up and showers them with money. But for the most part, 0:27:39.600 --> 0:27:42.800 it's it's like, the end goals should be the families, 0:27:43.160 --> 0:27:46.160 they should be first, but that's the wrong thing. 0:27:46.200 --> 0:27:49.080 They're the last. So it's very annoying, it's very frustrating. 0:27:49.280 --> 0:27:52.200 Yeah, that is especially given that, like that's the whole 0:27:52.240 --> 0:27:54.480 reason for the suit, Like that's. 0:27:54.400 --> 0:27:55.840 The whole reason for the season. 0:27:55.880 --> 0:27:59.119 But I mean, obviously the system is not conducted to 0:27:59.160 --> 0:28:02.080 benefit family last who are suffering. That's not who makes 0:28:02.119 --> 0:28:06.359 the rules, that's not who operates the system. The system. Yeah, okay, 0:28:06.880 --> 0:28:09.360 we don't need to rant about that. It is a bummer, Dan, 0:28:09.400 --> 0:28:09.919 what about you? 0:28:10.720 --> 0:28:13.679 I mean, maybe it's recency bias and stuff, but like, 0:28:14.200 --> 0:28:17.679 I do think that the conversation around the auction is 0:28:17.800 --> 0:28:20.000 missing a little bit of the point, whether it be 0:28:20.160 --> 0:28:23.720 in terms of you know, what the sale is, like 0:28:23.800 --> 0:28:26.959 you were bringing up Jordan, or like people thinking that 0:28:27.160 --> 0:28:30.720 there is a solution to the problem that Alex represents, 0:28:31.320 --> 0:28:34.640 Like this isn't going to be like a ding Dong 0:28:34.680 --> 0:28:38.400 the Witch's dead type moment. You're going to have, you know, 0:28:38.480 --> 0:28:42.320 his new thing funded by the companies that he's been 0:28:42.440 --> 0:28:46.160 building up to avoid the bankruptcy, or you're going to 0:28:46.280 --> 0:28:50.000 have somebody who's with him but that buys it in 0:28:50.120 --> 0:28:52.239 for wars is going to be the same problem on 0:28:52.280 --> 0:28:55.920 November fourteenth or whatever as it was the day before. 0:28:56.280 --> 0:28:58.600 And I think that I think that people are getting 0:28:58.720 --> 0:29:02.760 themselves may be a little bit up for a disappointment. Yeah, 0:29:02.800 --> 0:29:04.600 and I think that we've seen that a couple times, 0:29:04.640 --> 0:29:08.640 like with the alexad the night where he claimed that 0:29:08.960 --> 0:29:12.200 security guards were trying to shut him down. You know, 0:29:12.560 --> 0:29:15.160 people got excited about like this is it? Yeah yep, 0:29:15.440 --> 0:29:19.080 And I think maybe I'm jaded too because of years 0:29:19.120 --> 0:29:19.600 of doing this. 0:29:19.880 --> 0:29:20.160 Yeah. 0:29:20.280 --> 0:29:22.080 Yeah, it's almost never it. 0:29:22.480 --> 0:29:25.800 I mean, I want to say this and I want 0:29:25.800 --> 0:29:28.840 people to recognize that this is true in regards to 0:29:28.960 --> 0:29:32.360 this scenario. You are never going to come. You're never 0:29:32.800 --> 0:29:35.560 going to come. It's never going to happen. You're going 0:29:35.600 --> 0:29:38.200 to be perpetually close, and then you're not gonna make it, 0:29:38.240 --> 0:29:40.000 and then you're gonna come back. That's how it is. 0:29:40.240 --> 0:29:43.240 If you're into edging, Alex is the guy to follow. 0:29:43.360 --> 0:29:44.480 Yeah, it's perfect. 0:29:44.520 --> 0:29:48.000 So I think that that's actually really good advice. Like 0:29:48.080 --> 0:29:50.880 if you if you just as a layman, are hearing 0:29:50.880 --> 0:29:53.480 people talk about Alex Jones on social media or like 0:29:53.560 --> 0:29:56.000 seeing some sort of like opinion column or whatever and 0:29:56.080 --> 0:29:59.280 some you know, left wing or liberal rag and you 0:29:59.320 --> 0:30:02.520 want to know, like how credible is this? I guess 0:30:02.560 --> 0:30:04.520 the first question to ask is are they predicting a 0:30:04.640 --> 0:30:07.720 massive change to Alex and what he actually does, because 0:30:07.720 --> 0:30:10.120 if so, probably nothing has got Unless it's like an 0:30:10.200 --> 0:30:13.400 article that he's been diagnosed with the disease, nothing's probably 0:30:13.400 --> 0:30:17.320 going to change, right, at some point he's going to die. 0:30:17.360 --> 0:30:18.160 I'm not being mean. 0:30:18.480 --> 0:30:18.960 I don't even know. 0:30:19.040 --> 0:30:21.520 I wouldn't believe that article. I wouldn't believe a word 0:30:21.560 --> 0:30:22.360 in that article. 0:30:22.600 --> 0:30:26.480 They're lying, well, you take that illness with doctor Marbles to. 0:30:26.440 --> 0:30:29.480 Get out, Yes, exactly. 0:30:29.040 --> 0:30:32.240 The deposition of them, so like he you know, fu 0:30:32.360 --> 0:30:36.000 fuck even that. Yeah, I think I look at it 0:30:36.080 --> 0:30:39.680 slightly differently, and that is that I do predict that 0:30:39.680 --> 0:30:41.920 there will be a massive change. We just don't know 0:30:41.960 --> 0:30:45.600 what it'll be. Sure like there'll be something. He's got 0:30:45.600 --> 0:30:50.000 to do something, because his content is really stagnant and 0:30:50.080 --> 0:30:53.880 a bit uninteresting in the Trump sense. Yeah, and I do. 0:30:53.960 --> 0:30:55.720 I think that there is a change that will be 0:30:55.760 --> 0:30:58.560 needed if he wants to maintain whatever he's doing. But 0:30:59.320 --> 0:31:01.280 I mean, anybody who has an idea of what it 0:31:01.360 --> 0:31:01.920 is is wrong. 0:31:02.120 --> 0:31:05.640 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I imagine that predicting anything in the 0:31:05.680 --> 0:31:08.720 next sixty days is going to be a ridiculous proposition. 0:31:09.280 --> 0:31:12.560 If you had predicted a new hurricane fucking two weeks ago, 0:31:12.600 --> 0:31:13.920 people would have thought you were crazy. 0:31:14.560 --> 0:31:19.320 Yeah, well I think that's all I had to ask. Guys, 0:31:19.680 --> 0:31:21.920 anything you wanted to plug will bring up before we 0:31:21.960 --> 0:31:22.520 close out. 0:31:23.560 --> 0:31:26.840 Uh no, just we exist to where we have a show. 0:31:27.960 --> 0:31:31.680 I'll check out Knowledge Fight. It's my favorite podcast. It's 0:31:31.720 --> 0:31:34.760 the only only reasonable way to keep up with Alex 0:31:34.880 --> 0:31:38.240 Jones and a whole network of other con men and 0:31:38.320 --> 0:31:42.600 grifters who who kind of latch onto him like that 0:31:42.760 --> 0:31:45.600 fish that lives on the underside of a shark, except 0:31:45.600 --> 0:31:48.960 for Alex. Alex is also a remora or remera. Right, 0:31:49.000 --> 0:31:51.040 So it's just like a It's like a just a 0:31:51.120 --> 0:31:54.440 series of smaller and smaller ones, each sucking each other off. 0:31:56.080 --> 0:31:57.760 Yeah, that sounds about right. 0:31:57.880 --> 0:32:00.000 And Alex is latched onto the side of a crew 0:32:00.160 --> 0:32:03.560 ship toilet. Yeah, there were more on the cruise ship toilet. 0:32:04.520 --> 0:32:07.880 Yeah, you've now turned this into a human centipede situation. 0:32:08.000 --> 0:32:08.680 I have, I have. 0:32:08.880 --> 0:32:11.000 I don't know why again again, it's all this is 0:32:11.040 --> 0:32:14.280 all viral marketing for doctor Jones's Big Naturals. 0:32:15.080 --> 0:32:19.480 Now figured out an appropriate punishment for defamation of character 0:32:19.880 --> 0:32:20.840 human centipedes. 0:32:20.960 --> 0:32:24.000 Yeah, I've been saying that for years years. 0:32:24.160 --> 0:32:27.160 Yeah, I feel like and I do have to point 0:32:27.160 --> 0:32:30.200 this out. Sure, that is both cruel and very unusual. 0:32:30.280 --> 0:32:33.320 It is perhaps the most unusual thing you could imagine. 0:32:33.360 --> 0:32:35.560 Really, I hate to say, but somebody, it would it 0:32:35.560 --> 0:32:38.120 would take like some of these people three months to 0:32:38.160 --> 0:32:41.320 have several thousand people convinced that human centipeding is like 0:32:41.640 --> 0:32:44.240 a mental health hack, like it's it's it's like getting 0:32:44.320 --> 0:32:47.400 rid of seed oils. You know, that's how you accelerate 0:32:47.520 --> 0:32:49.200 muscle development. 0:32:48.840 --> 0:32:50.440 Right, yeah, yeah. 0:32:50.440 --> 0:32:55.320 Ancient cavemen were always eating each other ship you know 0:32:55.400 --> 0:32:58.160 what You've also you've also made a very good point. 0:32:58.280 --> 0:33:00.440 If you this this whole thing. If you want to 0:33:00.440 --> 0:33:03.680 stop Alex, Alex is a symptom. Alex is a symptom 0:33:03.680 --> 0:33:07.040 of the larger problem. You need to regulate supplements, Yes, 0:33:07.360 --> 0:33:09.200 FDA approved supplements. 0:33:09.280 --> 0:33:11.880 We'll get rid of most of these guys every podcast 0:33:11.920 --> 0:33:15.400 episode we can. We are pushing the line. In my dream. 0:33:15.440 --> 0:33:17.480 If I accomplish one thing in my life, it would 0:33:17.480 --> 0:33:21.000 be getting this to become widely agreed upon by liberals 0:33:21.000 --> 0:33:25.960 and the left. Regulate supplements, allowed direct sales of cars 0:33:26.200 --> 0:33:30.800 to consumers yep, and ban MLMs, and prosecute people criminally 0:33:30.880 --> 0:33:33.920 for trying to operate them. Do that, and you fix 0:33:34.000 --> 0:33:35.520 a lot of other problems. 0:33:35.720 --> 0:33:38.760 I would do something about precious metals businesses too, I 0:33:38.800 --> 0:33:39.320 would throw that. 0:33:39.520 --> 0:33:42.120 Well. Hey, now, hey, now, Mike Lindell's giving us some 0:33:42.200 --> 0:33:45.800 gold money. Sir, right, you just wait wait right there 0:33:45.880 --> 0:33:46.680 untill he runs out. 0:33:46.760 --> 0:33:53.360 Dan, pillow sales are illegal, also, I should. 0:33:52.760 --> 0:33:55.320 Pillows are illegal? Makes your neck week Yep, all right, 0:33:55.400 --> 0:33:59.360 everybody listen to knowledge by Thank you, Dan and Jordan. 0:33:59.480 --> 0:34:03.080 As always, we'll be back tomorrow with some other episode 0:34:03.200 --> 0:34:23.680 of this podcast that we do every day. 0:34:26.040 --> 0:34:28.520 Welcome to it could happen here. I'm Garrison. This is 0:34:28.560 --> 0:34:32.239 a little special episode today. I'm joined by Alex from 0:34:32.360 --> 0:34:37.040 Corvalis Antifa and Hank, who's using a pseudonym for personal 0:34:37.080 --> 0:34:41.120 safety from the Left Coast Right Watch Team. Hello to 0:34:41.160 --> 0:34:42.880 you both, and thank you so much for joining me. 0:34:43.200 --> 0:34:45.480 Hey, what's happening? Thank you so much for having us, 0:34:46.080 --> 0:34:47.000 Thanks for having us. 0:34:47.040 --> 0:34:47.640 Good to be here. 0:34:48.560 --> 0:34:51.040 So today we're gonna be talking about this group called 0:34:51.160 --> 0:34:57.160 White Lives Matter. I guess originally White Lives Matter was 0:34:57.239 --> 0:35:00.680 like a slogan and like a very a very loose 0:35:01.239 --> 0:35:03.560 group from like twenty fifteen, or at least it kind 0:35:03.560 --> 0:35:06.960 of started in twenty fifteen as a reaction to the 0:35:07.000 --> 0:35:10.840 growing Black Lives Matter movement. I know, I definitely saw this, 0:35:10.840 --> 0:35:15.799 this phrase propagated via like memes, flyers, billboards, and other 0:35:15.840 --> 0:35:18.439 forms of propaganda as a way to like seed white 0:35:18.520 --> 0:35:22.840 nationalist rhetoric to the then like growing and burgeoning. 0:35:22.880 --> 0:35:27.040 Al Right, Yeah, so there was a formation that was 0:35:27.120 --> 0:35:30.399 kind of like an NSM splinter formation that happened in 0:35:30.440 --> 0:35:34.240 an in reaction to the initial Black Lives Matter protests 0:35:34.280 --> 0:35:37.120 in twenty fifteen. The White Lives Matter that we're talking 0:35:37.160 --> 0:35:40.880 about today is a different formation entirely that utilizes sort 0:35:40.880 --> 0:35:44.120 of the same slogan. They are a group that started 0:35:44.120 --> 0:35:47.840 in like twenty twenty one and have been organizing primarily 0:35:47.840 --> 0:35:51.320 on telegram and have grown really rapidly across the country 0:35:51.360 --> 0:35:52.120 of the years since. 0:35:52.640 --> 0:35:54.600 Yeah, like we can see the early use of this 0:35:54.640 --> 0:35:58.680 phrase spread by you mentioned the National Socialist Movement, along 0:35:58.680 --> 0:36:00.960 with a few other kind of collection of neo Nazis, 0:36:01.360 --> 0:36:04.920 the Aryan Resistance Society and the Aryan Nationalist Alliance. But 0:36:05.200 --> 0:36:07.680 then things kind of like died down. It was just 0:36:07.880 --> 0:36:09.680 it was like a slogan you could see at rallies, 0:36:09.719 --> 0:36:12.240 but it wasn't it wasn't anything like too prominent, honestly. 0:36:12.600 --> 0:36:14.680 But then we had this big second wave in twenty 0:36:14.719 --> 0:36:18.479 twenty one with Telegram channels promoting a White Lives Matter 0:36:18.640 --> 0:36:21.560 march or a series of martians to be held across 0:36:21.600 --> 0:36:25.920 the country on like April eleventh. This batch of rallies 0:36:26.280 --> 0:36:28.840 were mostly a failure, in part due to the efforts 0:36:28.840 --> 0:36:32.120 of anti fascists who worked disabotage the planning of these 0:36:32.239 --> 0:36:35.720 rallies ahead of time. Of the rallies that did eventually 0:36:35.800 --> 0:36:38.319 take place, really only a handful of white supremacists showed 0:36:38.400 --> 0:36:42.720 up and most were outnumbered by anti fascist counter demonstrators. 0:36:43.360 --> 0:36:46.839 So then after this initial event with these with this 0:36:46.880 --> 0:36:49.880 like big batch of like of like channels on Telegram, 0:36:49.920 --> 0:36:53.360 which is this like encrypted messaging platform based out of Russia. 0:36:53.440 --> 0:36:55.719 It's not very good. Don't use it unless you're trying 0:36:55.719 --> 0:37:00.680 to infiltrate a Nazi group. But after these like fail rallies, 0:37:00.960 --> 0:37:03.279 White Lives Matter kind of turned into yet another one 0:37:03.320 --> 0:37:06.239 of these networks for white supremacists and neo Nazis that 0:37:06.280 --> 0:37:10.719 advocate quote unquote pro white activism. Typically this includes like 0:37:10.760 --> 0:37:14.680 putting up white nationalists like stickers around neighborhoods, hanging large 0:37:14.719 --> 0:37:19.000 banners with fascist rhetoric or Nazi imagery, flyering, and just 0:37:19.040 --> 0:37:22.960 spreading propaganda online with the occasional like in person rally. 0:37:23.000 --> 0:37:26.160 I think you can see kind of the peak of 0:37:26.200 --> 0:37:29.279 like the White Lives Matter slogan, at least was when 0:37:29.280 --> 0:37:32.439 it was propagated to the degree that Kanye west Ward 0:37:32.480 --> 0:37:35.120 on a T shirt during his little Nazi era back 0:37:35.120 --> 0:37:38.600 in twenty twenty two. And I think now you see 0:37:38.640 --> 0:37:41.600 White Lives Matter as like a network. It overlaps and 0:37:41.640 --> 0:37:44.640 crosses over a lot with like similar groups like the 0:37:44.680 --> 0:37:47.560 GDL that's the Going Defense League, as well as the 0:37:47.640 --> 0:37:51.120 National Socialist Club and Patriot Front to some degree. I 0:37:51.120 --> 0:37:53.960 guess one thing that I wanted to talk about is that, 0:37:54.440 --> 0:37:57.280 and this is mentioned in the Corvalis and TIFA article 0:37:57.440 --> 0:37:59.840 on the organ chapter of White Lives Matter, is like 0:37:59.840 --> 0:38:03.239 the idea of hiding your power level, which we used 0:38:03.239 --> 0:38:05.040 to talk about it a little bit more. I think 0:38:05.239 --> 0:38:07.520 in some ways a much Nazis kind of blew their 0:38:07.560 --> 0:38:10.839 cover back around twenty twenty, but now you see kind 0:38:10.840 --> 0:38:13.400 of more attempts to try to seed a white nationalist 0:38:13.440 --> 0:38:17.600 rhetoric into other kind of right wing spaces to push 0:38:17.600 --> 0:38:20.880 them farther along that radicalization pathway. And I would like 0:38:20.920 --> 0:38:23.280 to have a discussion at least a little bit about 0:38:23.320 --> 0:38:27.320 how White Lives Matter specifically tries to hide their power level, 0:38:27.640 --> 0:38:30.880 like kind of disguise the level of like overt fascism 0:38:31.120 --> 0:38:34.520 that they're really proposing by employing this like quote unquote 0:38:34.600 --> 0:38:35.720 like pro white rhetoric. 0:38:36.280 --> 0:38:36.600 Yeah. 0:38:36.760 --> 0:38:41.080 So White Lives Matter as a national organization is extremely 0:38:41.160 --> 0:38:44.320 like conscious of what they would describe as like their optics. 0:38:44.640 --> 0:38:48.800 They are very intent on like radicalizing who they perceive 0:38:48.920 --> 0:38:52.640 to be everyday white people into sort of fascist politics. 0:38:52.719 --> 0:38:57.480 And in their national level manuals and the materials that 0:38:57.520 --> 0:39:01.680 they provide the leaders of statewide organizations, they specifically talk 0:39:01.719 --> 0:39:05.759 about stuff like not displaying Nazi flags or using like 0:39:05.840 --> 0:39:08.840 neo Nazi rhetoric despite that being what they believe. But 0:39:08.880 --> 0:39:13.520 their sort of goal is to use more innocuous styles 0:39:13.520 --> 0:39:16.320 of sloganeering, like you know, the phrase like white lives 0:39:16.360 --> 0:39:20.640 matter and protect white babies stuff like that as ways 0:39:20.680 --> 0:39:24.320 to kind of open the door to get people to 0:39:24.360 --> 0:39:28.680 become interested in a more like overtly national socialist politic 0:39:28.800 --> 0:39:32.160 that they can radicalize people to who like join their group. 0:39:32.320 --> 0:39:35.120 And you see a lot of groups like Active Clubs, 0:39:35.160 --> 0:39:39.920 Patriot Front, other sort of white nationalists formations using the 0:39:40.040 --> 0:39:42.399 national WL on the BORG as sort of a way 0:39:42.440 --> 0:39:45.080 to recruit to their own organizations with this sort of 0:39:45.120 --> 0:39:48.680 more innocuous, subtle style of propaganda. 0:39:49.280 --> 0:39:51.000 Yeah, and like one other thing that's pointed out in 0:39:51.120 --> 0:39:54.719 the in the Crabalis and Tifa article is like they 0:39:54.920 --> 0:39:58.560 don't just do agit prop, Like they're not just a 0:39:58.600 --> 0:40:02.000 group that is composed of only doing stickering. There's been 0:40:02.040 --> 0:40:05.799 multiple instances when their online propaganda as well as their 0:40:05.920 --> 0:40:09.520 like in person stickering, escalates to real to real violence. 0:40:09.920 --> 0:40:11.840 Last year, a twenty eight year old from New Jersey 0:40:11.880 --> 0:40:16.160 attacked an anti racism concert at a church. He yelled 0:40:16.280 --> 0:40:19.239 White Lives Matter at attendees, threw smoke pomps at the church, 0:40:19.280 --> 0:40:22.279 and then tried to bear spray the crowd, think inadvertently 0:40:22.480 --> 0:40:26.080 bear sprague himself, which he then recorded a video talking 0:40:26.080 --> 0:40:30.239 about and posted online. Later in air, fifteen and high 0:40:30.280 --> 0:40:33.480 capacity magazines were found in his home alongside White Lives 0:40:33.520 --> 0:40:36.319 Matter propaganda, and later that year, a twenty year old 0:40:36.360 --> 0:40:39.719 male associated with White Lives Matter firebombed a church in Ohio, 0:40:40.120 --> 0:40:41.880 and the church was picked as a target because it 0:40:41.960 --> 0:40:45.600 planned to host two drag events. After being arrested, police 0:40:45.600 --> 0:40:50.239 found six firearms and dozens of loaded magazines alongside Nazi paraphernalia. 0:40:50.719 --> 0:40:53.400 This guy also wrote a manifestor defending his actions and 0:40:53.480 --> 0:40:56.400 specifically stating that he was happy about it because people 0:40:56.440 --> 0:41:00.360 online were proud of him. And you can even go 0:41:00.440 --> 0:41:02.680 back to the White Lives Matter rallies back in twenty 0:41:02.680 --> 0:41:05.200 twenty one, especially the one in Huntington Beach which saw 0:41:05.239 --> 0:41:08.160 a degree of physical violence. It's important not just not 0:41:08.200 --> 0:41:10.440 to just write these groups off as being like, oh, 0:41:10.480 --> 0:41:12.640 they only do banner drops, oh they only do stickers, 0:41:12.880 --> 0:41:15.799 because not only is like propaganda really important part of 0:41:15.840 --> 0:41:18.840 growing the number of them out there, but they also 0:41:19.239 --> 0:41:20.480 do real world violence. 0:41:20.880 --> 0:41:23.360 It's also important to talk about like the ways that 0:41:23.680 --> 0:41:29.719 WLM is organizationally connected to like more like scary elements 0:41:29.719 --> 0:41:32.960 of the neo Nazi right. Recently, Left Coast Right Watch 0:41:32.960 --> 0:41:36.240 published proof that Matthew Allison, who was one of the 0:41:36.360 --> 0:41:40.520 leaders of the Terrogram collective who was recently arrested, was 0:41:40.600 --> 0:41:44.640 responsible for some of the national WLM like propaganda that 0:41:44.680 --> 0:41:47.719 they published, which is quite concerning. So you know, even 0:41:47.760 --> 0:41:50.719 these groups that are more movementarian than nature and are 0:41:51.200 --> 0:41:54.600 trying to appeal to you know, you know more quote 0:41:54.680 --> 0:41:58.359 unquote nor me white people are like directly in bed 0:41:58.400 --> 0:42:02.200 with people who are like as scene with mass shooters and. 0:42:02.120 --> 0:42:06.919 Like terrorists yep, specifically try to like groom people into 0:42:06.920 --> 0:42:09.560 becoming mass shooters. Yes, I mean, and like that's why 0:42:09.560 --> 0:42:12.840 I think specifically with both these guys who did physical violence, 0:42:13.280 --> 0:42:14.880 you can see violence as like it as like an 0:42:15.000 --> 0:42:17.359 escalatory thing for the person who's like doing it right, 0:42:17.400 --> 0:42:19.520 you start off with throwing am al top cocktail, and 0:42:19.520 --> 0:42:21.719 then later you might do a mass shooting. It's like 0:42:21.719 --> 0:42:23.640 a testing ground. You can see the same thing with 0:42:24.040 --> 0:42:27.040 you know, bear macing and anti racism concert. The fact 0:42:27.080 --> 0:42:29.919 that both these guys, specifically the one in Ohio had 0:42:29.960 --> 0:42:33.640 like a lot a lot of guns, and like we're 0:42:33.680 --> 0:42:36.839 in America, there's a lot of guns around, but having 0:42:36.880 --> 0:42:40.520 that many guns and loaded magazines in Ohio as a 0:42:40.520 --> 0:42:43.520 twenty year old with all that Nazi paraphernalia like that, 0:42:43.520 --> 0:42:46.520 that is what a Nazi mass shooter's like bedroom looks like. 0:42:46.840 --> 0:42:50.640 And these are not like isolated incidents. I guess let's 0:42:50.719 --> 0:42:52.240 let's take a bit of a break and we will 0:42:52.280 --> 0:42:55.360 come back to talk about specifically the organ chapter of 0:42:55.400 --> 0:42:57.600 White Lives Matter and what they've been getting up to 0:42:57.800 --> 0:43:11.680 the past few months. All Right, So, after Krela Santifa 0:43:11.800 --> 0:43:15.040 leaked like chatlogs from the organ White Lives Matter group 0:43:15.120 --> 0:43:17.880 back in twenty twenty one, the chapter went to dormant, 0:43:18.120 --> 0:43:21.920 and then it restarted earlier this year. I guess, Alex, 0:43:22.000 --> 0:43:24.440 can you walk us through kind of the rebirth of 0:43:24.480 --> 0:43:25.920 White Lives Matter Oregon. 0:43:26.360 --> 0:43:29.240 Yeah, So, the way that WOLM works as a national 0:43:29.360 --> 0:43:33.440 organization is there's like a series of groups that all 0:43:33.520 --> 0:43:36.920 kind of are extant, like they there are groups, and 0:43:36.960 --> 0:43:39.560 then people would like apply to be with the national 0:43:39.640 --> 0:43:41.480 org to be like a leader of a state group. 0:43:41.760 --> 0:43:45.960 So back when w OLM initially began as a thing 0:43:46.040 --> 0:43:49.960 in twenty twenty one, our group was running the Oregon 0:43:50.080 --> 0:43:53.240 chapter and exposed several people who tried to join that group, 0:43:53.360 --> 0:43:58.640 and then after that like interest in that organization became 0:44:00.080 --> 0:44:02.400 it stopped existing for several years. 0:44:02.960 --> 0:44:03.280 Yeah. 0:44:03.400 --> 0:44:07.000 Then earlier this year we noticed that somebody had taken 0:44:07.040 --> 0:44:11.840 over the chapter and had started engaging in some stickering 0:44:12.000 --> 0:44:14.880 and some propaganda. So we were like, well, you know, 0:44:15.000 --> 0:44:17.120 we may as well join this group and see what's up. 0:44:17.719 --> 0:44:23.920 So we infiltrated the organization, gathered information about the membership, 0:44:24.080 --> 0:44:28.319 and published that information online in order to warn the 0:44:28.360 --> 0:44:33.520 communities that these guys in habit about their activities. The group, 0:44:33.680 --> 0:44:38.080 you know, was doing stuff that was not like extremely intense, 0:44:38.480 --> 0:44:41.040 like they were doing stickers, they did two banner drops 0:44:41.120 --> 0:44:44.719 or three banner drops successfully rather But in their chat 0:44:44.760 --> 0:44:46.960 we also found that they were talking a lot about 0:44:47.000 --> 0:44:51.319 like you know, military training and escalating and you know, 0:44:51.400 --> 0:44:54.279 even though this group kind of like seemed very low 0:44:54.360 --> 0:44:59.960 key and was like not doing anything, you know, super scary, like, 0:45:00.120 --> 0:45:02.840 the stuff they're talking about is concerning, and they're getting 0:45:02.960 --> 0:45:05.560 organized and they're getting to know each other. So we 0:45:05.760 --> 0:45:06.759 put a kibosh on that. 0:45:07.239 --> 0:45:09.919 So it looks like, according to a research the new 0:45:10.000 --> 0:45:13.200 leader is this guy named Cruz. Dean Walters. 0:45:13.560 --> 0:45:18.480 Yeah, yeah, so Cruz is marine kind of wash out 0:45:18.560 --> 0:45:23.160 who lives in McMinnville, Oregon. Until very recently was living 0:45:23.239 --> 0:45:26.200 a double life. He was living with his mom and 0:45:26.320 --> 0:45:29.440 his fiance, neither of who knew about his racist beliefs 0:45:29.440 --> 0:45:33.440 and now knew he was a highly incompetent leader who 0:45:33.719 --> 0:45:38.240 you know, really had a tremendous number of security flaws 0:45:38.239 --> 0:45:41.160 in his organization, you know, as is evidenced by the 0:45:41.200 --> 0:45:44.080 fact that we were able to you know, infiltrate and 0:45:44.120 --> 0:45:46.320 destroy it in a matter of just a few months. 0:45:46.600 --> 0:45:49.759 But you know, it is worth noting that, like the 0:45:49.800 --> 0:45:53.080 group grew from just a handful of people to you know, 0:45:53.560 --> 0:45:56.600 doing banner drops with like, you know, six or seven 0:45:56.640 --> 0:45:59.279 folks in just a couple, you know, a couple of 0:45:59.280 --> 0:46:03.000 short months. Like, even though these groups can kind of 0:46:03.040 --> 0:46:05.759 be benign, if there winds up being somebody who is 0:46:05.800 --> 0:46:09.920 like particularly passed it behind the channel, like, they can 0:46:10.040 --> 0:46:14.399 transform into something less benign very very quickly. And that's 0:46:14.400 --> 0:46:17.000 something we want to impart to other anti fascists across 0:46:17.040 --> 0:46:20.200 the country, is there are all these channels and they 0:46:20.280 --> 0:46:22.840 might be seen in kind of like benign now, but 0:46:22.880 --> 0:46:25.760 they can turn into something very malignant very quickly. 0:46:26.120 --> 0:46:29.600 I wanted to ask specifically about Cruise's radicalization. It's written 0:46:29.840 --> 0:46:32.480 in your piece that he was radicalized in part by 0:46:32.520 --> 0:46:35.960 the GDL, the Going Defense League, and participated in the 0:46:36.040 --> 0:46:39.840 city council desk squads, as reported by our own Molly Conger, 0:46:40.200 --> 0:46:43.839 and then just seemingly like just getting bored of just 0:46:43.880 --> 0:46:47.080 calling into city council meetings to Yelsler's he then like 0:46:47.280 --> 0:46:51.919 coued the organization. So I'm curious if he ever wrote 0:46:51.920 --> 0:46:54.560 about or talked about his background with the GDL and 0:46:54.640 --> 0:46:57.920 his like apparent boredom at their particular style of like 0:46:57.960 --> 0:46:59.360 a white supremacist activism. 0:46:59.680 --> 0:47:03.239 Yeah, so he, I think was just kind of like 0:47:03.680 --> 0:47:07.360 sitting on the internet as like a fucking, you know, dorky, lonely, 0:47:07.480 --> 0:47:11.440 sad little man, and you know, got into the GDL. 0:47:11.760 --> 0:47:14.560 For those who have the fortune of not knowing, the 0:47:14.640 --> 0:47:18.480 GDL is sort of this network of like really grotesque, 0:47:18.960 --> 0:47:24.080 highly cringey racist Twitch streamers or not on Twitch anymore, 0:47:24.080 --> 0:47:25.520 but like you know there's streamers. 0:47:25.560 --> 0:47:30.000 Nonetheless, they've been banned from Twitch. But yeah, but. 0:47:30.239 --> 0:47:33.160 Yeah, so they have this program called the City Council 0:47:33.280 --> 0:47:36.799 Death Squad where they will like call into like your 0:47:36.840 --> 0:47:40.200 local city council meeting and just like yellow slurs at 0:47:40.239 --> 0:47:43.480 the bleeder municipal employees that have to sit and watch. 0:47:44.040 --> 0:47:46.759 They did one Corvalis and like watching the footage was 0:47:46.800 --> 0:47:51.560 just like watching like these like grown men acting like children, 0:47:51.760 --> 0:47:55.920 like you know, hollering at like random like city councilor 0:47:56.200 --> 0:48:00.239 twenty three or whatever. It's really like pathetic. So I think, 0:48:00.239 --> 0:48:03.000 you know, Cruse kind of saw that and many do 0:48:03.200 --> 0:48:06.600 you know, the GDL is just a tremendously fucking pathetic organization. 0:48:07.280 --> 0:48:10.120 And he was like kind of decided that he wanted 0:48:10.120 --> 0:48:12.160 to get more involved, and he chose to get involved 0:48:12.200 --> 0:48:16.040 with WLM as opposed to like another neo Nazi formation 0:48:16.239 --> 0:48:20.240 because WLM is like a really really easy entry point 0:48:20.400 --> 0:48:23.320 and has a very like, you know, kind of base politic. 0:48:23.400 --> 0:48:26.040 It's not like you know, Patriot Front or an active 0:48:26.080 --> 0:48:29.439 club where there are you know, membership requirements and you 0:48:29.560 --> 0:48:32.600 have to engage in certain amounts of organizing activity or whatever. 0:48:32.640 --> 0:48:36.200 It's just very easy for you know, your lazy Nazi 0:48:36.280 --> 0:48:37.040 to engage with. 0:48:37.480 --> 0:48:37.640 Yeah. 0:48:37.680 --> 0:48:40.480 Absolutely, it definitely feels like the lazy person's option who 0:48:40.520 --> 0:48:42.240 doesn't want to go through the work of being vetted 0:48:42.520 --> 0:48:45.120 by like actual, like larger organizations. 0:48:45.360 --> 0:48:48.279 Yeah, and he he took over the chapter from an 0:48:48.440 --> 0:48:52.800 even lazier Nazi named Christian Coats who lives in Portland, Orion, 0:48:52.920 --> 0:48:56.000 who is like this old school bonehead from the two 0:48:56.000 --> 0:48:59.560 thousands who like has some hate crime charges from like 0:49:00.200 --> 0:49:03.000 I think like attempting to and failing to assault some 0:49:03.040 --> 0:49:06.920 black teams in like two thousand and seven. So Christian 0:49:06.960 --> 0:49:10.560 had in the interceding years between us destroying the initial 0:49:10.560 --> 0:49:13.800 iteration of w Olm taking it over and basically done 0:49:13.840 --> 0:49:16.440 like zilch with it. He posts like one photo on 0:49:16.480 --> 0:49:19.440 the channel. Ever, but then he got taken over by 0:49:19.440 --> 0:49:23.680 this dude Cruise, who grew the organization from like just 0:49:23.760 --> 0:49:26.800 a few people to you know, being a reasonable street 0:49:26.840 --> 0:49:31.200 presence in a short number of months, obviously at the 0:49:31.239 --> 0:49:35.440 expense of including an anti fascist infiltrator, and you know, 0:49:35.920 --> 0:49:40.040 also just a true coterie of scumbags and idiots in 0:49:40.120 --> 0:49:41.280 the in the group. 0:49:41.719 --> 0:49:42.000 Yeah. 0:49:42.040 --> 0:49:44.560 One of the other guys that you've identified is I 0:49:44.560 --> 0:49:46.480 don't know how to say his last name, but Casey 0:49:46.719 --> 0:49:47.760 I want to say Nutson. 0:49:48.239 --> 0:49:50.280 Oh yeah, Casey Knutson, who. 0:49:50.120 --> 0:49:52.120 After being kicked out of both the Proud Boys and 0:49:52.239 --> 0:49:55.040 Patriot Front, made his own group in twenty twenty two, 0:49:55.640 --> 0:49:58.200 the Rose City Nationalists, which is kind of the laughing 0:49:58.239 --> 0:50:01.960 stock of all white pharmacist groups in the PNW, and 0:50:02.040 --> 0:50:04.600 the group has the group has largely fallen apart after 0:50:04.640 --> 0:50:09.120 being just extensively investigated and exposed by local antie fascists 0:50:09.160 --> 0:50:10.680 almost to a comical extent. 0:50:11.000 --> 0:50:16.000 Yeah, ourselves, Rose City Antifa and the Stufftown Research Collective 0:50:16.080 --> 0:50:19.920 have been kind of going through and just you know, 0:50:20.360 --> 0:50:24.000 ripping apart. RCN and RCIEN is at this point more 0:50:24.080 --> 0:50:27.720 or less just Casey and this fella named Jared Huber 0:50:27.760 --> 0:50:31.520 who is an absolute like freak. He's got a bunch 0:50:31.520 --> 0:50:35.040 of tattoos all over his face. He was arrested for 0:50:35.239 --> 0:50:38.680 kicking a puppy nearly to death and beating up his grandfather. 0:50:39.600 --> 0:50:40.640 Just real scumbag. 0:50:40.880 --> 0:50:41.680 Jesus Christ. 0:50:42.080 --> 0:50:45.200 Yeah, they all have like domestic violence charges and you know. 0:50:45.200 --> 0:50:46.040 Are just yes. 0:50:46.719 --> 0:50:50.799 Real nightmare folks. The funniest thing about Rose City Nationalists 0:50:50.800 --> 0:50:53.480 is they gotten this conflict with the Proud Boys that 0:50:54.520 --> 0:50:57.080 I believe it was in Oregon City where they got 0:50:57.320 --> 0:51:00.840 just absolutely washed by some drunken Proud Boys on the street. 0:51:01.719 --> 0:51:05.000 Not because of like ideological issues, but just because they 0:51:05.120 --> 0:51:09.319 like have you know, interpersonal issues between Casey and the 0:51:09.400 --> 0:51:10.920 Portland chapter of the Proud Boys. 0:51:10.920 --> 0:51:11.239 It was. 0:51:11.640 --> 0:51:14.400 You know, they are truly just a laughing stock and 0:51:14.440 --> 0:51:16.600 are just like you know, I hate to use the term, 0:51:16.600 --> 0:51:18.439 but kind of like locals at this point. 0:51:19.000 --> 0:51:21.200 No, I mean and one thing that you do, like 0:51:21.320 --> 0:51:24.759 document is just how many of these guys are like 0:51:24.920 --> 0:51:28.239 domestic abusers, and like this is not uncommon for like 0:51:28.280 --> 0:51:31.880 these types of fellows. But also Cruise like both admitted 0:51:31.880 --> 0:51:35.160 to stealing a gun and also abusing his wife and 0:51:35.200 --> 0:51:38.520 threatening other family with firearms. And this is like a 0:51:38.560 --> 0:51:41.480 trend across as so many of the people exposed in 0:51:41.719 --> 0:51:44.279 these articles. Is the extent to which they're all in 0:51:44.400 --> 0:51:47.880 viewed in like disposal abuse, child abuse. It's it's just 0:51:47.960 --> 0:51:50.120 it's one of the very consistent factors. 0:51:50.520 --> 0:51:53.919 Yeah, misogyny is you know, one of the very very 0:51:54.040 --> 0:51:58.960 core parts of neo Nazism and white nationalism. And yeah, 0:51:59.000 --> 0:52:02.200 there's a really really horrible like section of texts in 0:52:02.440 --> 0:52:06.359 art article that where Cruz discusses like physically hitting his 0:52:06.400 --> 0:52:10.719 fiance and then threatening his brother with a firearm. And yeah, 0:52:10.760 --> 0:52:15.160 it's really really common that these people have domestic abuse charges. 0:52:15.280 --> 0:52:18.640 Multiple people in w lam Oregon have histories of domestic abuse, 0:52:19.080 --> 0:52:21.600 including Jaron Huber and Casey Knutson, who are the two 0:52:21.640 --> 0:52:24.520 other members. And yeah, it's just anytime you look at 0:52:24.520 --> 0:52:26.480 a Nazi group, there's a dude who beats his wife, 0:52:26.520 --> 0:52:28.960 and it like kind of barn On. As long as 0:52:28.960 --> 0:52:30.640 we've been doing this work, we've been seeing it. 0:52:31.440 --> 0:52:34.280 I'd like to talk now about the second in command 0:52:34.440 --> 0:52:37.960 of White Lives Matter Oregon, this small business owner in 0:52:38.080 --> 0:52:42.839 Couse Bay named Michael Witt Gaiton Byne who usually just 0:52:42.960 --> 0:52:46.040 goes by Wit. Now, Witt has been a part of 0:52:46.280 --> 0:52:48.800 the White Lives Matter Oregon banner drops, and that was 0:52:48.840 --> 0:52:52.160 also responsible for a lot of the stickering that gets 0:52:52.200 --> 0:52:55.480 done as he leaves stickers across the truck stop bathrooms 0:52:55.520 --> 0:52:58.480 up and down the coast. Now, WIT's kind of a 0:52:58.480 --> 0:53:02.719 fascinating fellow to me. He has shockingly bad op SEC, 0:53:03.000 --> 0:53:05.160 kind of one of the worst examples I've ever seen. 0:53:05.680 --> 0:53:09.839 His very easily recognized custom flatbed truck can be seen 0:53:09.840 --> 0:53:12.840 at banner drops in August and it even appears in 0:53:12.880 --> 0:53:16.840 their own like propaganda videos for another banner drop in September. 0:53:17.160 --> 0:53:19.920 He like talked about his just like utter disregard for 0:53:20.000 --> 0:53:23.840 off SEC in one of the audio archives that you 0:53:23.920 --> 0:53:26.759 have hosted on left Goo's right watch, what else can 0:53:26.800 --> 0:53:28.839 you tell us about kind of WIT's background here? 0:53:29.560 --> 0:53:32.600 Yeah, so what is a Nazi? 0:53:33.160 --> 0:53:35.719 And I believe his mother is actually you know, he 0:53:35.760 --> 0:53:39.440 said at one point his mother was like quote awakened. 0:53:38.840 --> 0:53:41.359 To the truth about the Jews or something like that. 0:53:41.360 --> 0:53:43.680 So he seems to come from at the very least 0:53:43.719 --> 0:53:47.600 an anti Semitic family. But he himself is certainly a Nazi, 0:53:47.640 --> 0:53:50.600 and I think he has believed he can operate with 0:53:50.840 --> 0:53:53.400 impunity in kous Bay. So I think it's less that 0:53:53.520 --> 0:53:57.040 he has bad op second, more believes he seems to 0:53:57.040 --> 0:53:58.759 think of himself as living in a world where it's 0:53:58.760 --> 0:54:00.680 okay to be a Nazi. Sure, we can talk a 0:54:00.680 --> 0:54:02.680 little bit more about that, but yeah, he runs a 0:54:02.680 --> 0:54:07.080 company called Wit Industries, which he's claimed does business from 0:54:07.160 --> 0:54:10.640 Mexico to Russia. He works in the marine, marine and 0:54:10.680 --> 0:54:14.280 maritime industry within the Port of Kouz Bay and kous County. 0:54:14.360 --> 0:54:17.720 We know that he's gotten about a quarter million dollars 0:54:17.760 --> 0:54:21.839 in public contracts, primarily from the Port of kous Bay, 0:54:21.960 --> 0:54:25.000 but also the Port of Aumqua, the City of North Bend, 0:54:25.160 --> 0:54:27.800 Kou's County, South Coast Education Service District. 0:54:28.440 --> 0:54:30.239 That's just what we've found so far. 0:54:30.400 --> 0:54:32.960 It can be pretty difficult to find, you know, even 0:54:32.960 --> 0:54:34.799 though this is public money, it can still be sort 0:54:34.840 --> 0:54:37.239 of a pretty difficult process to get public records and 0:54:37.280 --> 0:54:37.839 things like that. 0:54:37.960 --> 0:54:40.960 But you know, we know that the Port of kus Bay. 0:54:40.920 --> 0:54:45.320 Alone has awarded him like two hundred nineteen thousand dollars 0:54:45.440 --> 0:54:51.200 in contracts for work ranging from hydraulics repairs and replacements 0:54:51.280 --> 0:54:54.080 on vessels on the bridge. He's also pained the state 0:54:54.200 --> 0:54:56.640 dredge and the trailer and things like that. 0:54:57.160 --> 0:54:58.760 You mentioned him using his work vehicle. 0:54:58.880 --> 0:55:00.880 So he he has. 0:55:00.880 --> 0:55:03.440 Stated, and this is from you know, information we have 0:55:03.600 --> 0:55:07.279 from the Cornellis INTI for infiltration. He stated that part 0:55:07.320 --> 0:55:11.520 of his goal is to build a white supremacist called 0:55:11.760 --> 0:55:14.520 in Coos Bay. He wants to get guys elected to 0:55:14.600 --> 0:55:17.480 mayor and city council and things like that. And he 0:55:17.560 --> 0:55:21.719 actually was using White Lives Matter to recruit guys to 0:55:21.760 --> 0:55:24.279 come and work for him. He was recruiting a guy 0:55:24.320 --> 0:55:27.719 named wand And Calhoun, who is also an alleged pedophile. 0:55:27.880 --> 0:55:30.240 And we go into in the left Colus Right Watch article, 0:55:30.280 --> 0:55:32.960 but if he got this alleged pedophile land In to 0:55:33.000 --> 0:55:34.920 come and work for him, they met in White Lives 0:55:34.920 --> 0:55:37.879 Matter and he said, hey, come work for an all 0:55:37.880 --> 0:55:41.680 white organization where we can come and build the movement together. 0:55:42.040 --> 0:55:44.040 And as far as we know, it does. 0:55:43.880 --> 0:55:46.080 Appear that Landon has moved there, who's planning to move 0:55:46.080 --> 0:55:48.920 there in this fall, and we believe he's currently there. 0:55:49.400 --> 0:55:49.600 Yeah. 0:55:49.680 --> 0:55:50.960 I like to kind of go by some of these 0:55:50.960 --> 0:55:53.759 points one by one because he's he's certainly like a 0:55:53.800 --> 0:55:57.120 worrying figure. The fact that he's using his income, which 0:55:57.160 --> 0:56:00.360 is largely derived of government contracts, to like specif defictly, 0:56:01.239 --> 0:56:05.120 like fund white Ermas detectivity in the PNW, and like 0:56:05.320 --> 0:56:08.640 use his own company resources to grow the number of 0:56:08.719 --> 0:56:12.520 far right extremists in cus Bay, specifically his plans of 0:56:12.560 --> 0:56:16.320 like having them eventually like occupied positions of local government. 0:56:16.840 --> 0:56:19.120 It's a degree of like long term planning that isn't 0:56:19.160 --> 0:56:22.520 always present in some of these types of guys. You know, 0:56:22.600 --> 0:56:24.799 plans are one thing, but when you actually have a 0:56:24.840 --> 0:56:28.040 business that you are like hiring people to move to 0:56:28.080 --> 0:56:30.480 this town to like actually build this plan up, like, 0:56:30.600 --> 0:56:34.200 it shows a degree of hutspa. I guess on his 0:56:34.280 --> 0:56:37.160 part that he's actually like doing this. It kind of 0:56:37.160 --> 0:56:40.960 reminds me of the Rise Above movements tree trimming business, 0:56:41.480 --> 0:56:43.960 but that was just to pay bills. They had no 0:56:44.040 --> 0:56:47.080 plans to like slowly actually just like take over a 0:56:47.120 --> 0:56:50.279 small town. There's a lot of these businesses that are 0:56:50.440 --> 0:56:53.920 run by Nazis that primarily hire other Nazis. But the 0:56:53.920 --> 0:56:57.279 degree to which that Michael wit Is is able to 0:56:57.320 --> 0:57:00.319 operate without much oversight and just get get all of 0:57:00.360 --> 0:57:02.600 this money from local government is certainly worrying. 0:57:02.960 --> 0:57:03.160 I know. 0:57:03.239 --> 0:57:05.920 He stated that one of his employees like prints out 0:57:05.960 --> 0:57:08.520 all of his White Lives Matter stickers and has gotten 0:57:08.719 --> 0:57:12.640 help from employees to do one banner drop outside of Roseberg, 0:57:13.200 --> 0:57:16.680 and has a history of hiring far right people, conspiracy 0:57:16.680 --> 0:57:21.120 theorists and like monetarily supporting them to like help them 0:57:21.200 --> 0:57:23.480 continue their own far right activism. 0:57:23.920 --> 0:57:25.960 Yeah, and you mentioned his employees that were printing the 0:57:25.960 --> 0:57:28.680 stickers for him. That was before he hired Landon, So yeah, 0:57:28.720 --> 0:57:31.160 he already has guys that are that are doing this 0:57:31.720 --> 0:57:34.120 and the port. I think it's important to point out 0:57:34.160 --> 0:57:37.160 that the point of cou'se bay, it's public body. The 0:57:37.520 --> 0:57:40.720 commissioners are elected by the governor and they're confirmed by 0:57:40.840 --> 0:57:44.040 the organ Senate you know, or yeah, the Moorgan. 0:57:43.800 --> 0:57:44.640 Senate, I believe it is. 0:57:44.680 --> 0:57:48.280 So this is a state body that is giving state 0:57:48.400 --> 0:57:52.360 funding to this Nazi and I think that's really important 0:57:52.400 --> 0:57:52.720 to name. 0:57:52.840 --> 0:57:54.440 It's also like just to give people a. 0:57:54.360 --> 0:57:58.479 Little bit of the geography, because it's a small town 0:57:58.520 --> 0:58:01.000 that actually geographically takes quite. 0:58:00.800 --> 0:58:04.320 A while to like drive from North Bend to Coos Bay. 0:58:04.400 --> 0:58:07.600 And Witt lives right over by the Charleston Marina, and 0:58:07.680 --> 0:58:10.920 we know he's pretty in bed with the marina folks. 0:58:10.960 --> 0:58:11.160 There. 0:58:11.240 --> 0:58:15.200 There was a big organ Department of Transportation grant to 0:58:15.600 --> 0:58:17.880 the state level that the port had written that Wit 0:58:17.960 --> 0:58:18.920 would have been one of the. 0:58:18.920 --> 0:58:21.680 Like people making money. He was like written. 0:58:21.680 --> 0:58:25.360 Officially into this grant for it was a three point 0:58:25.440 --> 0:58:27.240 five million dollar grant that. 0:58:27.160 --> 0:58:28.480 Wit was written into, right, so. 0:58:28.440 --> 0:58:30.960 They're like his friends, you know, like they're like, yeah. 0:58:30.840 --> 0:58:34.360 They're writing him into these grants. Witt's office is. 0:58:34.400 --> 0:58:37.120 Over there on Ocean View Boulevard, which is right next 0:58:37.160 --> 0:58:41.360 to the Confenrated Tribes of Kuzler m Quan sayslaw Indians 0:58:41.440 --> 0:58:44.200 tribal housing office, and right next to one of their casinos. 0:58:44.240 --> 0:58:46.960 And just to give folks the terrain of where he's 0:58:47.000 --> 0:58:50.520 living and kind of operate and too. 0:58:50.800 --> 0:58:54.080 Yeah, hello Garrison from the future, just to cutting in 0:58:54.320 --> 0:58:56.880 to say something that Hank said, but I got a 0:58:56.880 --> 0:58:59.360 little bit garbled in the voice modulation. So I just 0:58:59.360 --> 0:59:01.160 want to stay at a little bit more clearly here, 0:59:01.560 --> 0:59:04.600 there's some other events that can help contextualize what WIT 0:59:04.760 --> 0:59:07.720 is doing in Kuse Bay, because currently in Kous County 0:59:08.040 --> 0:59:11.120 there's this sort of intense far right power grab that 0:59:11.280 --> 0:59:14.760 is slowly happening. Some people might know of this radio 0:59:14.840 --> 0:59:17.440 host named Rob Taylor. He's said to be one of 0:59:17.440 --> 0:59:19.960 the guys who coordinated the breaching of the Oregon Capital 0:59:20.000 --> 0:59:22.920 in late December, which was basically a test run for 0:59:23.000 --> 0:59:26.400 January sixth, and he's hosted people with the far right 0:59:26.440 --> 0:59:29.360 group Patriot Prayer. He has an old gab account which 0:59:29.400 --> 0:59:33.400 was essentially like Nazi Twitter before Twitter just became Nazi 0:59:33.440 --> 0:59:36.240 Twitter under Elon Musk. So this guy is like very 0:59:36.280 --> 0:59:39.720 comfortable and associates with extremely far right people as well 0:59:39.760 --> 0:59:43.040 as engaged in a level of activism in Oregon at least. 0:59:43.360 --> 0:59:46.640 So that's Rob Taylor, the radio guy. There's this other 0:59:46.680 --> 0:59:50.760 person named Rod Taylor who's a Kus County commissioner who 0:59:50.800 --> 0:59:54.440 actually was a January sixth insurrectionist. He was arrested at 0:59:54.480 --> 0:59:58.400 the capitol on Jay six Now Michael went to Geitonbine 0:59:58.760 --> 1:00:02.400 has also previously impled this guy named Matt Wilbanks who's 1:00:02.440 --> 1:00:05.320 a buddy of Rob Taylor. He runs this blog called 1:00:05.320 --> 1:00:08.720 The Daily Resistor and also one of the kous County 1:00:08.760 --> 1:00:11.600 neighborhood watch groups in the Empire District of cous Bay, 1:00:12.320 --> 1:00:16.120 which is mostly just focused on like doxing and harassing 1:00:16.120 --> 1:00:19.600 homeless people. And these guys are also part of various 1:00:19.720 --> 1:00:23.640 mega groups like Citizens Restoring Liberty, and Wit himself is 1:00:23.680 --> 1:00:26.720 a part of this network. He has attended Citizens Restoring 1:00:26.800 --> 1:00:30.040 Liberty events. He's also an admin on a Telegram channel 1:00:30.200 --> 1:00:33.800 called the organ Patriot Alliance, which is like this mega 1:00:34.000 --> 1:00:39.120 patriots organizing channel on Telegram. Nominally, these mega types typically 1:00:39.200 --> 1:00:42.120 say that they are, you know, not for Nazis, They 1:00:42.120 --> 1:00:45.320 are against Nazis, they are against pedophiles, and yet they 1:00:45.320 --> 1:00:49.320 are associating with Wit here who employs a pedophile and 1:00:49.560 --> 1:00:53.080 is a Nazi. But one other thing that Hank said 1:00:53.080 --> 1:00:56.040 that I want to reiter rate is that Kuspe is 1:00:56.080 --> 1:01:00.280 also a contested space. Although there is this intensely far 1:01:00.360 --> 1:01:03.240 right power graph happening, there's also a whole bunch of 1:01:03.320 --> 1:01:07.480 other much more positive activism. Hank pointed to the tribal 1:01:07.480 --> 1:01:11.160 communities of fighting for Indigenous sovereignty as well as environmentalist 1:01:11.200 --> 1:01:15.360 groups calling bs on the port's greenwashing of all their projects. 1:01:15.920 --> 1:01:18.720 So it's not just that like everyone's Nazis now in 1:01:18.840 --> 1:01:21.680 Cuse Bay. Yes, Wit is a Nazi and people should 1:01:21.720 --> 1:01:24.440 be concerned about that, but it is a contested space 1:01:24.680 --> 1:01:27.600 home to a diverse group of people who are also 1:01:27.880 --> 1:01:30.360 fighting for good things. We're now going to have an 1:01:30.360 --> 1:01:33.800 ad break and then return to talk more about White 1:01:33.800 --> 1:01:46.840 Lives Matter Oregon. Okay, we are back, and uh, Alex, 1:01:46.880 --> 1:01:48.840 you said you wanted to add something on this point 1:01:48.880 --> 1:01:51.080 about Toose Bay being a contested space. 1:01:51.320 --> 1:01:51.720 Yeah. 1:01:51.800 --> 1:01:54.720 I think one thing that is important to just like 1:01:55.280 --> 1:01:58.120 throw onto what Hank is saying about Who's Bay as 1:01:58.160 --> 1:02:03.200 a contested space is like it's not entirely unheard of 1:02:03.280 --> 1:02:05.640 for neo Nazis to kind of try to do these 1:02:05.680 --> 1:02:09.200 projects of like moving a bunch of people to certain 1:02:09.600 --> 1:02:13.720 usually rural areas to you know, try to take them over, 1:02:13.800 --> 1:02:16.760 you know, most notably like Leaf, North Dakota, where Crane 1:02:16.840 --> 1:02:19.880 Com tried to take over. But well, I think has 1:02:19.960 --> 1:02:23.880 been shown really repeatedly is that these projects have failed 1:02:23.960 --> 1:02:27.600 because the communities that live there, you know, even if 1:02:27.640 --> 1:02:30.840 they're rural communities, even if they're small towns, don't have 1:02:30.880 --> 1:02:33.000 it and are willing to fight back. And that's what 1:02:33.120 --> 1:02:36.320 we're really hoping to see from folks on the Oregon 1:02:36.440 --> 1:02:39.640 South coast being willing to push back against this sort 1:02:39.680 --> 1:02:42.120 of thing like was done in Leaf and you know, 1:02:42.400 --> 1:02:45.720 forcing these people out of the institutions they're trying to inhabit. 1:02:46.320 --> 1:02:49.320 Yeah, and especially with someone like Michael here, because he's 1:02:49.560 --> 1:02:53.200 like hiring people who advocate going much farther than white 1:02:53.240 --> 1:02:56.760 lives matter to actually engage in like paramilitary training, hiring 1:02:56.800 --> 1:02:59.960 someone who is like not just accused of being a pedophile, 1:03:00.080 --> 1:03:02.200 but has admitted to Michael that his family like hates 1:03:02.240 --> 1:03:04.160 him because of an allegation that he's that he's touched 1:03:04.160 --> 1:03:08.800 someone and that Michael himself witnessed this guy Calhoun being 1:03:08.880 --> 1:03:11.600 quote unquote hands on with an eight year old girl 1:03:11.680 --> 1:03:14.480 while while they were meeting together in Cuspe. There's like 1:03:14.520 --> 1:03:17.040 that side of it. And then you have him like 1:03:17.080 --> 1:03:20.000 posting on telegram about like wanting the day of the 1:03:20.080 --> 1:03:22.120 rope to come faster, kind of like an old like 1:03:22.240 --> 1:03:25.960 Nazi slogan about like racial like lynchings and like furthering 1:03:26.040 --> 1:03:29.040 racial conflict as well as like sharing instructions from the 1:03:29.120 --> 1:03:33.400 meme Woffen telegram channel about how to make Maltov cocktails. 1:03:33.560 --> 1:03:36.600 I believe we've talked about Meme Waffen on the show before. 1:03:37.160 --> 1:03:38.920 So he's like doing all of this type of stuff 1:03:38.920 --> 1:03:42.160 that's like so much more obviously objectionable, while also trying 1:03:42.200 --> 1:03:44.680 to like make like space for himself within like the 1:03:44.680 --> 1:03:47.800 mega community, right being the admin of this organ Patriots 1:03:47.840 --> 1:03:51.080 Alliance telegram channel, which is like also an attempt just 1:03:51.080 --> 1:03:53.760 to like further the radicalization of these like mega centric 1:03:53.800 --> 1:03:57.400 members by like inundating them with more explicit kind of 1:03:57.640 --> 1:04:00.520 fascistic propaganda, but on like a slow level. 1:04:00.960 --> 1:04:01.840 And then there are. 1:04:01.840 --> 1:04:05.280 Multi million and multi billion dollar government projects to improve 1:04:05.320 --> 1:04:08.720 the port that is expected to receive funds from. And 1:04:08.760 --> 1:04:11.040 I feel like this is something that's pretty pretty objectionable 1:04:11.080 --> 1:04:13.200 and it should be easy to stop, but it requires 1:04:13.240 --> 1:04:16.240 like attention and it requires a degree of public pressure 1:04:16.680 --> 1:04:19.200 to make sure that the government, both state and federal, 1:04:19.640 --> 1:04:23.160 are not giving funds to like an explicit neo Nazi 1:04:23.160 --> 1:04:26.720 who hires alleged pedophiles to fund like right wing activism 1:04:26.800 --> 1:04:28.520 across the Pacific Northwest. 1:04:29.360 --> 1:04:30.160 Yeah, totally. 1:04:30.200 --> 1:04:32.240 And I think it's important to point out too, like 1:04:32.680 --> 1:04:35.520 you know, kus Bay is in this process. They have 1:04:35.640 --> 1:04:38.120 the intermodal Port of Kus Bay, which is like a 1:04:38.200 --> 1:04:41.280 two point three billion dollar project where they want to 1:04:41.320 --> 1:04:43.400 become like, you know, they want to be as big 1:04:43.400 --> 1:04:46.880 of a port as Oakland, California or whatever. And you know, 1:04:47.040 --> 1:04:50.840 one of the things, I mean, my understanding from talking 1:04:50.840 --> 1:04:53.240 to folks in Cuz Bay is that it's just greenwashed 1:04:53.760 --> 1:04:56.520 capitalism that will be destructive to the environment. 1:04:56.600 --> 1:04:59.000 It won't actually bring the community the. 1:04:59.040 --> 1:05:02.400 Kind of like are like what about bike lanes, you know, 1:05:02.560 --> 1:05:05.280 like there's like community infrastructure people want in cus Bay 1:05:05.440 --> 1:05:09.160 and dredging the port is not that, you know. 1:05:09.360 --> 1:05:12.400 And I think there's also like a couple of examples 1:05:12.400 --> 1:05:12.880 of that is it. 1:05:12.880 --> 1:05:15.880 Will destroy eel grass, which is a really important marine 1:05:15.880 --> 1:05:19.400 habitat and also source of storage carbon. It will destroy 1:05:20.000 --> 1:05:24.520 indigenous cultural resources or impact those spaces. And you know, 1:05:24.720 --> 1:05:27.880 we haven't seen the exact financials yet for what this 1:05:28.000 --> 1:05:30.600 project will be, but it's a two point three billion 1:05:30.680 --> 1:05:33.400 dollar project that involves dredging, you know, which is sort 1:05:33.440 --> 1:05:35.640 of deepening and widening. 1:05:35.160 --> 1:05:37.000 The port and the channels. 1:05:37.000 --> 1:05:39.800 And we know that Witt has gotten money, for example, 1:05:40.120 --> 1:05:42.640 to work on the state dredge and do work on 1:05:42.720 --> 1:05:46.000 it so I think it's very possible that wit would 1:05:46.040 --> 1:05:48.440 be until the Port takes the stand and says, hey, 1:05:48.440 --> 1:05:51.760 we're not funding this nazi who uses his work truck 1:05:52.240 --> 1:05:55.080 to do Nazi stuff. I think people should be really 1:05:55.120 --> 1:05:59.680 concerned about this port money going back to help build 1:05:59.760 --> 1:06:02.760 or not community that he's trying to build there. 1:06:03.480 --> 1:06:05.720 Yeah, and like to your previous point, like the fact 1:06:05.720 --> 1:06:07.960 that he's able to be so flagrant about his white 1:06:07.960 --> 1:06:09.920 supremacist beliefs, the way that he doesn't feel like he 1:06:09.920 --> 1:06:12.360 needs to care about OPSEC because he has a job 1:06:12.360 --> 1:06:15.120 that's like irreplaceable, Like he provides a service to this 1:06:15.160 --> 1:06:16.880 community that he feels like no one else can do. 1:06:17.160 --> 1:06:20.440 Therefore he is secure in that, Like you can't allow 1:06:20.520 --> 1:06:23.120 them that level of comfortability, and that's something that has 1:06:23.160 --> 1:06:26.040 to be like opposed due to both like public pressure 1:06:26.400 --> 1:06:28.960 and research that like you have done, as well as 1:06:29.000 --> 1:06:31.720 the crucial work from corbetto Sentiva. 1:06:32.000 --> 1:06:34.800 Yeah, you know, I think just to add to like, 1:06:34.800 --> 1:06:38.080 like groups like the Organ's Bay Area, which is like 1:06:38.080 --> 1:06:40.160 a popular Facebook group has been doing a really great 1:06:40.240 --> 1:06:41.480 job like raising. 1:06:41.520 --> 1:06:43.920 Just talking about and what's going on. 1:06:44.160 --> 1:06:49.280 I think largely we really haven't seen much response from 1:06:49.440 --> 1:06:52.960 the Port of Cosbe or the governor who's confirming these commissioners, 1:06:52.960 --> 1:06:57.000 Like largely the sort of institutions of power are not 1:06:57.080 --> 1:07:00.120 yet responding, and so I think that's something that with 1:07:00.320 --> 1:07:04.080 local folks in KUSBEI could be pressuring. And also at 1:07:04.120 --> 1:07:06.400 a statewide level, right Like this is state funding and 1:07:07.160 --> 1:07:08.919 the Port of Caussebae development has. 1:07:08.840 --> 1:07:09.800 Federal funding too. 1:07:10.280 --> 1:07:13.680 But I think those are places where where there could 1:07:13.680 --> 1:07:15.880 really be a lot more pressure being applied, and I 1:07:15.880 --> 1:07:18.360 think a lot more people should be talking about all 1:07:18.400 --> 1:07:19.000 of this as well. 1:07:19.040 --> 1:07:20.160 As we mentioned earlier. 1:07:20.200 --> 1:07:26.120 You know, WIT claims to have a reputation and work 1:07:26.160 --> 1:07:28.960 and contracts all up and down the entire West coast. 1:07:29.000 --> 1:07:31.800 So certainly if there are listeners in here in Oakland 1:07:31.960 --> 1:07:34.040 or Alaska or Washington. 1:07:33.760 --> 1:07:36.080 Or wherever you might be who know the name. 1:07:35.920 --> 1:07:38.200 With GAT and Bne or WIT Industries and you want 1:07:38.200 --> 1:07:41.400 to send in a tip to Cornella's Antifa or whatever 1:07:41.800 --> 1:07:44.320 Marco's right watch, we would be really happy to hear 1:07:44.920 --> 1:07:46.920 what you know about this guy, because we know we 1:07:46.960 --> 1:07:50.760 know he's working in other communities. We we would love 1:07:50.800 --> 1:07:52.520 details or any tips folks might have. 1:07:52.960 --> 1:07:54.760 Yeah, would either of you like to kind of add 1:07:54.800 --> 1:07:55.320 anything else? 1:07:55.360 --> 1:07:58.120 Before we close out and point to people towards both 1:07:58.160 --> 1:07:59.240 your work and where to send. 1:08:00.960 --> 1:08:02.840 Yeah, I guess the thing that I would just close 1:08:02.840 --> 1:08:07.440 out with is WLM is not just an organ problem, 1:08:07.440 --> 1:08:10.920 it's a national problem. I know, this podcast reaches folks 1:08:10.960 --> 1:08:14.720 all across the country. If you are somebody who is 1:08:14.840 --> 1:08:18.439 Antifa curious or is interested in making a difference in 1:08:18.479 --> 1:08:22.040 your community, it's a group with really terrible security culture, 1:08:22.439 --> 1:08:24.840 and it might be worth taking a gander at that. 1:08:25.080 --> 1:08:28.160 And then, you know, God, it feels so silly to 1:08:28.160 --> 1:08:30.800 do a podcast plug, but please check out our work 1:08:30.960 --> 1:08:34.200 at CV antifa dot no blogs dot org. We're also 1:08:34.240 --> 1:08:39.080 on Twitter at CV against fash and Instagram at cv Antifa, 1:08:39.520 --> 1:08:42.240 and you know, we have lots of articles exposing neo 1:08:42.320 --> 1:08:46.320 Nazis in Oregon and across the country, and you might 1:08:46.360 --> 1:08:48.559 just find somebody in your community who sucks. 1:08:49.080 --> 1:08:51.880 Thank Yeah, I'll just add you know, if you want 1:08:51.920 --> 1:08:54.960 to see the of course, the LEFTUS Right Watch article 1:08:55.040 --> 1:08:57.679 gives a really deep dive on what and also information 1:08:57.760 --> 1:08:58.640 for public. 1:08:58.400 --> 1:09:01.200 Use has posted like the financials, so if you. 1:09:01.160 --> 1:09:04.040 Really want to like get into the numbers, it's worth 1:09:04.040 --> 1:09:06.280 looking there. And yeah, just to reiterate, I mean, I 1:09:06.280 --> 1:09:09.200 think kus Bay and so many other places are really 1:09:09.240 --> 1:09:12.519 contested spaces, and I think these Nazis want us to 1:09:13.479 --> 1:09:16.840 believe that they're in charge and that they're powerful, and 1:09:17.280 --> 1:09:20.120 they have this idea that they can operate with impunity, 1:09:20.160 --> 1:09:23.120 and it's really not true. Like we've seen small and 1:09:23.240 --> 1:09:26.720 rural towns take down Nazis all over this country, and 1:09:26.800 --> 1:09:29.360 I think that will continue. And I think that, yeah, 1:09:29.479 --> 1:09:33.599 like what tactics in ways people might do that from 1:09:33.600 --> 1:09:36.040 place to place can look different, but I just you know, 1:09:36.439 --> 1:09:39.599 encourage folks to dig into your local Nazis and get 1:09:39.640 --> 1:09:42.680 together and figure out how to how to mess them up, 1:09:42.760 --> 1:09:44.720 you know. And it's a it's a good way to 1:09:44.760 --> 1:09:47.479 have fun with your friends and uh and we can 1:09:47.520 --> 1:09:49.160 do it, you know, and and we need we need 1:09:49.200 --> 1:09:50.760 to be doing it. I mean, there just shouldn't be 1:09:51.640 --> 1:09:55.400 state money going to help a Nazi build a white 1:09:55.439 --> 1:09:58.559 supremacist utopia. I mean, that's the that's the history of 1:09:58.600 --> 1:10:00.200 this country, right, Like, that's the history. 1:10:00.240 --> 1:10:04.519 Colonization, that's the history of Oregon specifically. So yeah, it's 1:10:04.520 --> 1:10:06.200 a time to do something else. 1:10:06.600 --> 1:10:09.920 Yeah, And Antifa isn't just for you big city folk, 1:10:10.000 --> 1:10:13.240 you know, those must live in rural communities can and 1:10:13.360 --> 1:10:16.960 should be involved in these struggles, and it is something 1:10:17.000 --> 1:10:20.400 that like is not just something that happens in Portland. 1:10:20.600 --> 1:10:22.439 People in rural orient are. 1:10:22.320 --> 1:10:25.720 Doing anti fascism and will continue to do it and 1:10:25.760 --> 1:10:26.559 will continue to win. 1:10:27.240 --> 1:10:28.280 Thank you both so much. 1:10:28.600 --> 1:10:31.800 I will leave links to your orgs and your and 1:10:31.840 --> 1:10:34.280 your articles in the description below. Thank you for listening. 1:10:34.280 --> 1:10:37.040 And yeah, if you are antifa curious, give it a shot. 1:10:37.080 --> 1:10:38.400 It is indeed fun. 1:10:59.240 --> 1:11:04.760 What Brett my cavanaughs. I'm Robert Evans, and this is 1:11:04.800 --> 1:11:08.240 it could happen here? A podcast about it happening here 1:11:08.800 --> 1:11:12.280 with me today is Sophie Lichterman and Mia Wong. We're 1:11:12.320 --> 1:11:14.960 going to be talking about a guy who is near 1:11:14.960 --> 1:11:16.680 and dear to my heart because the second to the 1:11:16.720 --> 1:11:19.080 last conversation I ever had with my mom was about 1:11:19.080 --> 1:11:21.759 Brett Kavanaugh. Mia, what are we gonna learn today? 1:11:21.920 --> 1:11:22.080 Oh? 1:11:22.160 --> 1:11:27.280 Boy, God, have you done the what's breading my Kavanaugh before? 1:11:27.360 --> 1:11:27.439 Like? 1:11:28.360 --> 1:11:30.120 I'm certain I haven't. Why would I have? 1:11:30.840 --> 1:11:36.080 I don't know if I oddly familiar? So if he has, 1:11:36.160 --> 1:11:37.559 somebody let me know. Thank you. 1:11:38.520 --> 1:11:38.720 Yeah. 1:11:38.800 --> 1:11:40.000 Tell us the good and the bad. 1:11:40.439 --> 1:11:44.439 Yeah, we already know the ugly. Yeah, I'm body shaming 1:11:44.520 --> 1:11:46.560 Brett Kavanaugh. Yeah that's right, motherfucker. 1:11:46.920 --> 1:11:52.760 That's right, motherfucker. The worst thing he consequences he's ever 1:11:52.760 --> 1:11:55.479 going to suffer are this bad news cycle and me 1:11:55.960 --> 1:11:59.080 saying something that's not legally defamatory, and if he wants 1:11:59.120 --> 1:12:00.760 to fucking prove it, you could sue me over it. 1:12:00.840 --> 1:12:04.000 He has a sweet gig for life. Yeah, he's set, 1:12:04.240 --> 1:12:04.880 is set, bro. 1:12:05.280 --> 1:12:09.960 Yeah, Yeah, he sucks so bad that even like you know, 1:12:11.160 --> 1:12:14.519 Midwest dads hate him, so at least there's that. 1:12:15.080 --> 1:12:18.160 Yeah, he's he's really rad sid And so I think 1:12:18.240 --> 1:12:19.880 I think the place to start with this actually is 1:12:19.880 --> 1:12:22.200 not with Kavanaugh, but with Trump, because what we're talking 1:12:22.200 --> 1:12:25.639 about today is a thing that we kind of knew 1:12:25.720 --> 1:12:28.000 was true but didn't know the extent of until now, 1:12:28.520 --> 1:12:32.280 which is that the supposed FBI investigation into everything that 1:12:32.280 --> 1:12:37.639 Brett Kavanaugh did was like fake and deliberately fucked by 1:12:37.760 --> 1:12:41.080 Trump specifically, Like this is Trump specifically told them to 1:12:41.120 --> 1:12:43.240 just like not do the investigation, and so they didn't 1:12:43.240 --> 1:12:46.679 do the investigation and nothing happened. This is the sort 1:12:46.680 --> 1:12:49.479 of how we got confirmed. And I think the interesting 1:12:49.479 --> 1:12:51.360 thing about this, partially it's because I hate breck Capital. 1:12:51.520 --> 1:12:54.599 Yeah, he sucks the worst guy, a real dick. 1:12:55.240 --> 1:12:57.400 Yeah, But I think the everything about him is like 1:12:57.720 --> 1:13:00.120 I feel like everyone has forgotten what it was like 1:13:00.200 --> 1:13:04.639 to live under Trump. I agree, because there was just 1:13:04.800 --> 1:13:08.519 so much shit happening all the time, Like every single 1:13:08.640 --> 1:13:11.240 every single day was like a new one of these things. 1:13:11.280 --> 1:13:13.360 And I want to go back to what like one 1:13:13.520 --> 1:13:17.639 week of Trump was like, because every single fucking week 1:13:17.800 --> 1:13:20.639 was like this, and it was the most miserable thing. 1:13:21.400 --> 1:13:25.519 So who is Brett Kavanaugh. He's one of the nine 1:13:25.520 --> 1:13:28.000 assholes who get to decide whether we all have rights 1:13:28.560 --> 1:13:31.040 for people who've sort of forgotten his background. So he's 1:13:31.040 --> 1:13:35.559 like an old old like nineties era, kind of like 1:13:36.000 --> 1:13:38.720 protege of the nineties Republican gruls. He's like one of 1:13:38.720 --> 1:13:40.960 the people who helps Ken Starr do the like Monica 1:13:41.040 --> 1:13:44.519 Lewinsky trial. Like he's he's involved in a whole bunch 1:13:44.560 --> 1:13:46.960 of sort of like Republican rat fucking operations. He's also 1:13:47.000 --> 1:13:49.040 and I think this one's actually important to remembers, to 1:13:49.040 --> 1:13:51.760 go up to the election, Kavanall was part of the 1:13:51.840 --> 1:13:54.320 legal team that helped Bush do the original Stop the 1:13:54.360 --> 1:13:56.960 Steal in two thousands, just like straight up stole the 1:13:57.000 --> 1:13:58.360 election in Florida. 1:13:59.320 --> 1:14:03.599 So love that these guys keep getting jobs as opposed 1:14:03.640 --> 1:14:06.559 to I don't know, getting the punishment for treason. 1:14:06.760 --> 1:14:10.640 And he's only fifty nine years old. Yeah, he's so 1:14:10.960 --> 1:14:14.599 young for that job. We have like forty more years 1:14:14.840 --> 1:14:15.240 of him. 1:14:15.479 --> 1:14:17.680 If you ever wanted like a clear reason why we 1:14:17.720 --> 1:14:21.200 shouldn't do things like the death penalty for treason, it's 1:14:21.240 --> 1:14:24.599 because when people commit treason, nothing happens to them, and 1:14:24.640 --> 1:14:28.240 when people I don't know agitate for Puerto Rican independence, 1:14:28.320 --> 1:14:32.439 they get executed. Like that's that's what happens with those laws. 1:14:32.800 --> 1:14:38.160 I just bad avoid laws existing. 1:14:38.920 --> 1:14:42.040 Yeah, and especially avoid all of your laws being dictated 1:14:42.160 --> 1:14:46.240 by a bunch of a bunch of fucking serial predators. Yeah, 1:14:46.280 --> 1:14:50.960 and this gets us too. So Kevinaugh's appointment was very 1:14:51.280 --> 1:14:55.200 very close. The Republicans at the time they controlled the Senate, 1:14:55.320 --> 1:14:57.280 but they had a fifty two to forty eight margin, 1:14:58.120 --> 1:15:02.440 and a lot of those kind kind of marginal senators 1:15:03.200 --> 1:15:04.720 were like. 1:15:04.840 --> 1:15:08.080 There was there was a more realistic chance of it 1:15:08.160 --> 1:15:13.000 not happening then typically Yeah, but they still fucked it 1:15:13.200 --> 1:15:13.720 in the end. 1:15:14.040 --> 1:15:17.320 Oh yeah, of course. But you know the reason, the 1:15:17.320 --> 1:15:19.559 reason why it was close. Is as I think most 1:15:19.560 --> 1:15:23.600 people probably remember, Kavanaugh is a serial sexual predator. He 1:15:23.640 --> 1:15:27.160 has sexually assaulted so many fucking people. People saw him 1:15:27.200 --> 1:15:28.760 do it. There were times when he was the only 1:15:28.800 --> 1:15:30.400 fucking person there he did there were times when we 1:15:30.439 --> 1:15:33.280 did it in crowds. He definitely one hundred percent did it. 1:15:33.320 --> 1:15:35.320 And if he wants to fucking sue me about it, like, 1:15:35.760 --> 1:15:37.360 I'll see you in court, motherfucker. 1:15:37.920 --> 1:15:40.840 And while we're here, Clarence Thomas also a predator, thank you. 1:15:41.560 --> 1:15:42.200 We're going to get to that. 1:15:43.360 --> 1:15:45.919 Let's let's be clear here, Like if we're doing an 1:15:45.960 --> 1:15:48.679 Olympics of predators, Clarence Thomas is up in the number 1:15:48.720 --> 1:15:51.240 one spot. Brett Kavanaugh's down in place three. You know, 1:15:51.360 --> 1:15:57.320 Thomas is a much, much more I don't know, expansive predator. 1:15:58.120 --> 1:16:01.519 Yeah, there was some belief at the time in this 1:16:01.560 --> 1:16:03.479 is sort of like every single article about this like 1:16:03.520 --> 1:16:05.760 talks about how this is peakb too, but it is 1:16:05.920 --> 1:16:08.120 of important that like this, it was a real possibility 1:16:08.160 --> 1:16:10.200 that he was going to go down in flames. Yeah, 1:16:10.320 --> 1:16:14.280 it has happened before, it can happen again, and it 1:16:14.439 --> 1:16:17.040 was a real issue for him. It was a real 1:16:17.080 --> 1:16:19.840 issue for him in large part because Christine Blossi Forde, 1:16:19.840 --> 1:16:22.519 who's a psychology professor, just like testified under oath in 1:16:22.600 --> 1:16:26.200 one of the most like fucking harrowing things I've ever 1:16:26.240 --> 1:16:28.280 seen on the floor of the Senate. 1:16:28.560 --> 1:16:29.080 Horrific. 1:16:29.439 --> 1:16:32.200 Yeah. The thing I stuck with b was like he 1:16:32.360 --> 1:16:34.599 was laughing while he did it. It's just like, this 1:16:34.680 --> 1:16:36.080 guy is a fucking monster. 1:16:36.320 --> 1:16:38.320 I Mean. One of the things that you do have 1:16:38.400 --> 1:16:42.000 to take into account is that, like the media infrastructure 1:16:42.080 --> 1:16:45.200 that world up to defend Brett Kavanaugh to ensure that 1:16:45.240 --> 1:16:49.559 this didn't take him down existed in part because about 1:16:49.560 --> 1:16:52.160 a third of right wing media, like about a third 1:16:52.160 --> 1:16:55.920 of that whole infrastructure system exists because of the Clarence 1:16:55.960 --> 1:16:59.840 Thomas hearings. Ye, Like that and Nixon's resignation being for 1:17:00.720 --> 1:17:03.880 are kind of the two two inciting incidents of modern 1:17:03.920 --> 1:17:06.960 conservative media. Those were the things that made them really 1:17:06.960 --> 1:17:08.639 commit to the idea that, like, we have to build 1:17:08.640 --> 1:17:12.840 a completely separate ecosystem of facts because if we let 1:17:12.920 --> 1:17:15.720 reality in at all, like our guys who are all 1:17:15.840 --> 1:17:19.200 sex predators and criminals will never be able to win 1:17:19.400 --> 1:17:20.360 or stay in office. 1:17:20.640 --> 1:17:22.920 Yeah. Yeah, And also, I mean it's worth noting too 1:17:22.960 --> 1:17:26.519 that like Roger ayles Off, who is like one of 1:17:26.560 --> 1:17:29.120 the people responsible for building all this infrastructure, was also 1:17:29.240 --> 1:17:34.240 himself just a serial predator on a like frankly incomprehensible scale. Yes, 1:17:34.479 --> 1:17:37.320 And so all these people were also just defending themselves 1:17:37.439 --> 1:17:43.240 because they also are all fucking their own sometimes miniature capital, 1:17:43.320 --> 1:17:47.160 sometimes worse Kavenaughs. And it into this sort of breach, 1:17:47.280 --> 1:17:48.880 right like, so this is this is this is a 1:17:48.920 --> 1:17:51.479 real pr crisis to Republicans, this is this is going 1:17:51.680 --> 1:17:55.360 even worse for them then the last time that they 1:17:55.400 --> 1:17:57.880 fucking did this, which was, as we've alluded to, when 1:17:57.880 --> 1:18:00.280 they got Clarence Thomas on and when Joe Biden didn't 1:18:00.920 --> 1:18:04.840 like personally helped Railroad Anita Hill to make sure that 1:18:04.960 --> 1:18:07.280 when she would get fucked when she to testify against 1:18:07.280 --> 1:18:11.680 claris Thomas. So that's great, incredible stuff. There was a 1:18:11.680 --> 1:18:13.600 point in our nation's history where that was actually like 1:18:13.600 --> 1:18:16.160 a political problem for Joe Biden. We're fucking no longer 1:18:16.160 --> 1:18:20.720 there anymore. And into this breach steps what's supposed to 1:18:20.800 --> 1:18:25.920 be an FBI investigation. Yeah, ostensibly, Yeah, so I'm going 1:18:25.960 --> 1:18:28.599 to read from a recently released report, and there's gonna 1:18:28.600 --> 1:18:29.960 be I'm going to quote from this report a lot, 1:18:30.000 --> 1:18:31.719 because this is this is the sort of new information 1:18:31.880 --> 1:18:34.600 that we have. Where can people see the report? It 1:18:34.600 --> 1:18:37.120 will be in the description. If you just like search 1:18:37.720 --> 1:18:40.640 Sheldon white House Report, you should be able to find it. 1:18:40.960 --> 1:18:43.439 There'll be a link in the notes. Yeah, we'll link it. 1:18:43.760 --> 1:18:43.960 Yeah. 1:18:44.000 --> 1:18:45.840 It's like it's like thirty pages. It's actually not third 1:18:46.000 --> 1:18:47.720 it's more like twenty pages because like a bunch of 1:18:47.720 --> 1:18:50.560 the mergercizations, so it's pretty easy read. I'm going to 1:18:50.640 --> 1:18:52.720 read some of it. And also I do want to 1:18:52.720 --> 1:18:55.639 point out the fact that the Senate Judiciary Committee member 1:18:55.680 --> 1:18:59.880 who wrote this thing is named Sheldon white House. Incredible name, 1:19:00.320 --> 1:19:01.280 incredible center. 1:19:01.400 --> 1:19:04.280 That is a great name. Where does that come from? 1:19:04.360 --> 1:19:05.920 That can't be a real name. That can't be a 1:19:06.000 --> 1:19:08.040 name that existed. That can't be a name that existed 1:19:08.120 --> 1:19:10.479 before the White House, right, Like it has to have 1:19:10.520 --> 1:19:13.160 at some point been named after the White House, right, 1:19:13.800 --> 1:19:15.559 I mean, why else would you have that name? 1:19:16.200 --> 1:19:18.360 Well, it could just be that this family historically lived 1:19:18.360 --> 1:19:20.320 in a White House for seven hundred years. 1:19:20.479 --> 1:19:21.840 You'd have to be in a White House for a 1:19:21.960 --> 1:19:23.360 long ass time to get. 1:19:23.160 --> 1:19:27.960 That last name. So here's from the report quote after 1:19:28.080 --> 1:19:31.439 hearing the testimony by Ford and Kavanaugh, the Judiciary Committee 1:19:31.439 --> 1:19:34.639 agreed to request the FBI he knocked a supplemental background 1:19:34.680 --> 1:19:40.320 investigation quote limited to current credible allegations against Kavanaugh, before 1:19:40.360 --> 1:19:43.360 the full Senate voted on his confirmation. And so there's 1:19:43.360 --> 1:19:46.800 an important detail here that wasn't clear to anyone at 1:19:46.840 --> 1:19:49.520 the time, because fucking no one knows how the minutia 1:19:49.680 --> 1:19:54.000 of FBI investigations work. But this was not actually a 1:19:54.000 --> 1:19:57.680 full FBI investigation. This is this is something called a 1:19:58.479 --> 1:20:04.519 like supplemental background investigation, and we'll get into what exactly 1:20:04.560 --> 1:20:06.840 that is in a second, but it's not like a 1:20:06.880 --> 1:20:12.280 real FBI investigation. And this investigation does what it was 1:20:12.320 --> 1:20:15.120 supposed to do, which was, you know, clear Kavanaugh's name 1:20:15.160 --> 1:20:16.920 and off of Republican senators to be able to vote 1:20:16.960 --> 1:20:20.000 for him without immediately getting destroyed politically. What it didn't 1:20:20.040 --> 1:20:24.160 do was like actually conduct an investigation. Trump very famously 1:20:24.400 --> 1:20:26.759 at this time it says that the investigation had quote 1:20:26.760 --> 1:20:31.880 free reign and it unbelievably did not bull fucking shit. Yeah, 1:20:31.920 --> 1:20:34.240 he just lied about this, like yep. 1:20:34.479 --> 1:20:34.679 Yeah. 1:20:34.680 --> 1:20:39.000 The administration directly ran the investigation, killed it, and then 1:20:39.080 --> 1:20:41.960 used its political power and the FBI itself to you know, 1:20:42.000 --> 1:20:44.599 illegitimately railroad a serial predator or on at the Supreme 1:20:44.640 --> 1:20:46.519 Court to take away of when's right to get into abortion. 1:20:47.200 --> 1:20:50.599 And then after that they stonewalled the investigation for six years. 1:20:51.439 --> 1:20:53.720 So this is how that sort of process worked. I'm 1:20:53.720 --> 1:20:56.600 going to quote from that report again. Third, although the 1:20:56.600 --> 1:20:59.760 Trump administration and the FBI assured the Senate that the 1:20:59.840 --> 1:21:03.800 FBI's investigation was being conducted quote by the book, they 1:21:03.800 --> 1:21:07.080 failed to disclose that there was actually no quote unquote 1:21:07.160 --> 1:21:10.560 book at all. The FBI produced no written records for 1:21:10.600 --> 1:21:14.479 supplemental background investigation, saying it was merely acting as the 1:21:14.560 --> 1:21:17.639 quote agent for the White House in such matters. 1:21:17.840 --> 1:21:19.400 Which white House was it? Sheldon White? 1:21:20.120 --> 1:21:20.400 Sorry? 1:21:21.200 --> 1:21:25.599 No, white House? Bad, the one with the president White House. 1:21:25.720 --> 1:21:26.080 Yeah. 1:21:26.120 --> 1:21:28.360 By the way, I was, I was trying to debunk 1:21:28.400 --> 1:21:32.000 his last name. He comes from the longest line of 1:21:32.160 --> 1:21:34.320 nepotism of that he. 1:21:34.680 --> 1:21:36.400 I was like, I was like, oh, they must have 1:21:36.400 --> 1:21:38.519 gotten named that back when like the fact that they 1:21:38.560 --> 1:21:40.800 had a house at all was noteworthy. 1:21:40.880 --> 1:21:44.479 Yeah, these people have paint it literally kept going. 1:21:44.600 --> 1:21:47.320 I was like, okay, one level, okay, two levels okay, three, 1:21:47.720 --> 1:21:50.080 okay for this, Okay, when does it end? 1:21:50.160 --> 1:21:52.640 And then I got bored? And the funny part of 1:21:52.640 --> 1:21:54.439 back of this again is that, like this is the 1:21:54.520 --> 1:21:58.720 good guy in this story is my NEPO baby like 1:21:58.720 --> 1:22:04.679 like corruption Junior Senator of Rhode Island. Yeah, okay, yeah, 1:22:04.720 --> 1:22:07.479 And I want to kind of focus in on this 1:22:07.600 --> 1:22:10.280 statement in and of itself, because this is just like 1:22:10.320 --> 1:22:13.639 an absolutely hideous a view of just like the hideous 1:22:13.720 --> 1:22:17.280 power of the unitary executive just do whatever the fuck 1:22:17.280 --> 1:22:21.000 it wants. Like, what do you mean that the FBI 1:22:21.160 --> 1:22:24.000 produced no written protocols for for how they're supposed to 1:22:24.000 --> 1:22:27.120 do supplements of background investigation? What do you mean that 1:22:27.160 --> 1:22:30.240 they were quote acting as an agent for the White House? 1:22:30.920 --> 1:22:34.559 That's batshit? Why why their security service is literally directly 1:22:34.640 --> 1:22:36.880 answered to one guy who could just tell them what 1:22:37.040 --> 1:22:39.559 to do whatever the fuck he wants. That's insane. That 1:22:39.720 --> 1:22:41.679 is a that is a fucking that is a drange 1:22:41.720 --> 1:22:45.200 political system. And yet this is you know, this is 1:22:45.240 --> 1:22:47.400 this is the system I'm supposed to be doing this stuff, 1:22:47.400 --> 1:22:50.519 which is also very funny because White House is like 1:22:51.080 --> 1:22:53.920 not really trying to get into a feud with the FBI, 1:22:54.560 --> 1:22:56.120 So there's a lot of kind of like a sculptory 1:22:56.160 --> 1:22:58.439 stuff in the FBI. But like, also everything the FBI 1:22:58.640 --> 1:23:01.479 does in this is such a fiasco that it's very 1:23:01.520 --> 1:23:05.760 clearly like also very much their fault. I'm gonna read 1:23:05.800 --> 1:23:07.720 another quote from this. This is from a bit later 1:23:07.760 --> 1:23:11.479 in the report. Fourth, the FBI's tip line was not 1:23:11.640 --> 1:23:15.360 used to facilitate the FBI supplemental background investigation into the 1:23:15.400 --> 1:23:19.840 allegations against Kavanall on instructions from the White House. The 1:23:19.920 --> 1:23:23.160 FBI did not investigate thousands of tips that came through 1:23:23.200 --> 1:23:27.320 the FBI's tip line. Instead, all tips related to Kavandall 1:23:27.400 --> 1:23:31.320 were forwarded to the White House without investigation. If anything, 1:23:31.400 --> 1:23:33.400 the White House may have used the tip line to 1:23:33.560 --> 1:23:39.080 steer FBI investigators away from derogatory or damaging information, which 1:23:39.120 --> 1:23:42.880 is again absolutely nuts insane. 1:23:42.479 --> 1:23:45.160 And like, yes, so this is the kind of thing 1:23:45.160 --> 1:23:48.760 that like should be serious crime, right, like yeah, you go, 1:23:48.920 --> 1:23:50.920 you get locked up for forever, Like this is a 1:23:50.960 --> 1:23:54.120 forever crime. Yeah, it seems much more serious than I 1:23:54.120 --> 1:23:55.960 don't know, robbing a bank to try and fund the 1:23:56.000 --> 1:23:57.479 Puerto Rican independence movement. 1:23:57.960 --> 1:23:59.760 Yeah, it's not clear to me whether this would have 1:23:59.760 --> 1:24:02.400 been a giant scandal for a normal administration, just because 1:24:02.479 --> 1:24:05.040 the American presidency has so much power. But it should 1:24:05.040 --> 1:24:07.400 have been like this was just like a thing that 1:24:07.439 --> 1:24:09.720 would happen every week under Trump, was like he would 1:24:09.760 --> 1:24:12.320 just do shit like this. Do you know also what 1:24:12.400 --> 1:24:14.560 you should do? Shit like I don't know. That was 1:24:14.720 --> 1:24:16.080 not my best pivot. 1:24:15.800 --> 1:24:18.160 No, no, but but do shit like. 1:24:18.560 --> 1:24:21.240 Yeah, like like these products and services that support the podcast, 1:24:31.560 --> 1:24:33.960 we are back. We've gotten to the point where again 1:24:34.000 --> 1:24:36.960 the FBI's tip line is not actually being used of 1:24:37.000 --> 1:24:39.160 the investigation. They're sending it all to the White House. 1:24:39.439 --> 1:24:43.200 The report found that so the FBI, like and I 1:24:43.240 --> 1:24:45.000 talked about the public at the time, they talked to 1:24:45.280 --> 1:24:49.000 ten people who they said had like direct knowledge of 1:24:49.040 --> 1:24:52.280 the situation. But again they only talked to ten people, 1:24:53.080 --> 1:24:55.280 and there is a whole bunch of people who had 1:24:55.400 --> 1:24:57.519 very relevant evidence about a lot of important stuff in 1:24:57.520 --> 1:24:59.360 this Like so one of the claims that's going on 1:24:59.479 --> 1:25:01.720 here is that Kavanaugh was just wasted all the time. 1:25:01.760 --> 1:25:03.840 And this is like every single person you talk to 1:25:04.200 --> 1:25:06.960 who knew Kavanaugh in college and isn't like directly employed 1:25:06.960 --> 1:25:08.439 by the Republican Party was like, oh yeah, this guy 1:25:08.520 --> 1:25:11.400 wasted all the time, right, and this became a big 1:25:11.439 --> 1:25:12.880 part of the trial. And there were a whole bunch 1:25:12.880 --> 1:25:14.720 of people who tried to go to the FBI to 1:25:14.800 --> 1:25:19.200 be like, hey, he did this, and they just like 1:25:19.439 --> 1:25:22.479 would not talk to them. People who tried to come forward, 1:25:22.680 --> 1:25:24.679 like they wouldn't talk to people who sent them information 1:25:24.720 --> 1:25:27.600 to the tip line. They just like didn't talk to 1:25:27.640 --> 1:25:30.800 them at all. I'm going going to read from the 1:25:30.840 --> 1:25:34.599 thing again. According to a quote executive summary, if the 1:25:34.680 --> 1:25:38.839 FBI supplemental background investigation issued by the Judiciary Committee majority, 1:25:39.240 --> 1:25:41.559 the majority of that time was Republican majority, So that's 1:25:41.600 --> 1:25:45.360 why it's fucked. These people were quote all witnesses with 1:25:45.439 --> 1:25:49.759 potential firsthand knowledge at the allegations. The FBI did not, however, 1:25:49.920 --> 1:25:53.599 interview Ford or Kavanaugh, the witnesses potentially with the most 1:25:53.640 --> 1:25:57.400 firsthand knowledge, nor did it speak to other potentially corroborating 1:25:57.439 --> 1:26:01.040 witnesses who had not witnessed the events firsthand. Nevertheless, the 1:26:01.120 --> 1:26:06.440 Judiciary Committee's Republicans executive summary concluded that the quote supplemental 1:26:06.479 --> 1:26:10.760 background investigation confirms there is no cooberation of allegations made 1:26:10.760 --> 1:26:15.000 by doctor Ford and Ms Ramirez, So they didn't talk 1:26:15.080 --> 1:26:18.519 to either Kavanaugh or Ford, the two people who the 1:26:18.800 --> 1:26:19.960 thing was a ballot. 1:26:19.760 --> 1:26:21.800 Well, I mean, you know, why would you need to 1:26:21.840 --> 1:26:23.000 do that, right, Like. 1:26:23.320 --> 1:26:28.439 Wait, what the fuck? This is so insane. No. Oother 1:26:28.479 --> 1:26:30.479 part of this is so the FBI's initial background check 1:26:30.479 --> 1:26:32.599 didn't turn up any of this, and so the supplemental 1:26:32.640 --> 1:26:34.400 thing is being done in place of like the normal 1:26:34.400 --> 1:26:36.719 background check because the normal background check was also done 1:26:36.720 --> 1:26:38.479 like shit, and so they never figured out any of 1:26:38.520 --> 1:26:42.160 this incredibly obvious stuff about him. And meanwhile, like the 1:26:42.160 --> 1:26:44.400 supplemental one just they just kept being like, oh, well, 1:26:44.400 --> 1:26:47.000 we don't actually need to talk to the people who 1:26:47.040 --> 1:26:52.040 this is about for incredibly nebulous reasons. And the other 1:26:52.080 --> 1:26:53.760 part of this that's going on is that like, while 1:26:53.800 --> 1:26:57.080 this process is happening, the Democratic on the Judiciary Committee 1:26:57.080 --> 1:26:58.840 are trying to figure out how this process works, and 1:26:59.680 --> 1:27:02.160 Trump but just like refuses to talk to any of 1:27:02.200 --> 1:27:04.519 them and the FBI refuses to send any of them. 1:27:04.520 --> 1:27:07.639 People are fighting out like we we know that there's 1:27:07.680 --> 1:27:12.080 no specific process for this like supplemental investigation thing, because 1:27:12.360 --> 1:27:16.360 like their staffers found it out from a YouTube video Jesus, 1:27:16.600 --> 1:27:18.400 like they did not find this out from the FBI. 1:27:18.479 --> 1:27:20.839 It was like this guy. Senator staffers were like watching 1:27:20.880 --> 1:27:23.639 YouTube videos to figure out how this investigation was supposed 1:27:23.640 --> 1:27:26.240 to work. So, and it turns out we had known 1:27:26.360 --> 1:27:29.760 at the time that the FBI was doing some kind 1:27:29.800 --> 1:27:34.240 of shady stuff. But what we know now is that 1:27:34.720 --> 1:27:38.080 so Ford and her lawyers repeatedly tried to talk to 1:27:38.120 --> 1:27:40.600 the FBI and they were just never able to do so, right, 1:27:40.680 --> 1:27:43.280 the FBI completely stonewalled them. And it turns out that 1:27:43.320 --> 1:27:46.599 they ston malled them because Trump specifically ordered the FBI 1:27:46.800 --> 1:27:50.160 not to talk to her or kavanall what what, which 1:27:50.200 --> 1:27:55.600 is absolutely insane. Yeah, the law It turns out this 1:27:55.680 --> 1:27:56.720 is this is this is the part of this is 1:27:56.760 --> 1:27:57.360 the most insane. 1:27:57.400 --> 1:27:57.519 Right. 1:27:57.520 --> 1:28:01.000 Everyone thought that the FBI, which is doing a normal 1:28:01.080 --> 1:28:03.160 FBI investigation, right, And part of what's going on here 1:28:03.200 --> 1:28:06.439 is that the media is just these like absolute credulous idiots, right, 1:28:06.920 --> 1:28:09.439 because every single day the media is reporting that like 1:28:09.520 --> 1:28:12.240 Trump is allowing an open investigation because like somehow again 1:28:12.280 --> 1:28:14.080 this is this is like two years into him being 1:28:14.120 --> 1:28:16.040 in office. Right, none of these people have figured out 1:28:16.160 --> 1:28:18.479 that every single thing he says is a lie. They're 1:28:18.479 --> 1:28:20.320 all like, oh, yeah, Trump keep saying that these people 1:28:20.360 --> 1:28:22.040 can talk to whoever they want, and they can investigate 1:28:22.080 --> 1:28:24.040 whoever they want. And this gets to the point where 1:28:24.240 --> 1:28:26.679 the FBI is calling the White House every day because 1:28:26.920 --> 1:28:29.040 they'll be reading the news reports that say we can 1:28:29.120 --> 1:28:31.200 talk to anyone, and they'll be like, hey, you told 1:28:31.280 --> 1:28:33.679 us we can't talk to these people, and they'll be like, no, no, actually, 1:28:33.720 --> 1:28:36.240 you still can't talk to these people. And it turns 1:28:36.280 --> 1:28:39.080 out that what's happening is this like quote unquote supplemental investigation. 1:28:39.560 --> 1:28:42.280 It's not an FBI investigation. They can only do things 1:28:42.360 --> 1:28:45.000 that are like quote unquote directed by the president, So 1:28:45.040 --> 1:28:47.479 they can only talk to the people who the President 1:28:47.560 --> 1:28:49.760 tells them to talk to, and they can't look at 1:28:49.800 --> 1:28:53.360 evidence that the President doesn't tell them to to look at. 1:28:53.479 --> 1:28:56.840 And so what ends up happening is that like you know, 1:28:56.960 --> 1:28:59.920 there's initially like four people that they're they're supposed to 1:28:59.920 --> 1:29:02.880 be talking to, right, and you know, they keep getting 1:29:02.920 --> 1:29:05.479 these like press things that are like, oh, hey, this 1:29:05.520 --> 1:29:07.320 is the full this is an open investigation. You can 1:29:07.400 --> 1:29:10.400 like do whatever you want. And eventually they put in 1:29:10.439 --> 1:29:12.280 like six more people, so like they talked to ten 1:29:12.360 --> 1:29:15.120 total people. But because this is an investigation that is 1:29:15.160 --> 1:29:17.559 not being run by the FBI. Really it's being it's 1:29:17.640 --> 1:29:20.759 being directly ran by Trump himself, which he's lying about 1:29:21.479 --> 1:29:23.360 because of that, they fucking never talked to anyone. And 1:29:23.400 --> 1:29:26.240 then also again as we talked about, right that that 1:29:26.280 --> 1:29:27.679 tip line they set up a bunch of the people 1:29:27.680 --> 1:29:29.360 who tried to talk to the FBI, who the FBI 1:29:29.400 --> 1:29:32.920 wouldn't talk to, were like told, okay, go submit stuff 1:29:32.960 --> 1:29:35.599 to this tip line. And the FBI later admits that 1:29:36.040 --> 1:29:37.840 the tip line was like never real. 1:29:37.760 --> 1:29:39.639 Sure have a nice fake tip line. 1:29:39.720 --> 1:29:42.439 Yeah, they never used any of an investigation. They sent 1:29:42.479 --> 1:29:44.240 it all the Trump Yeah. And the reason they did 1:29:44.320 --> 1:29:45.960 it was that they were sick of people calling their 1:29:46.000 --> 1:29:48.840 regular tip line, so they set up a specific tip 1:29:48.880 --> 1:29:50.280 line so they could just have all the stuff that 1:29:50.280 --> 1:29:51.800 they would never listen to, and the same sense of 1:29:51.800 --> 1:29:53.280 the White House so they could do I guess like 1:29:53.320 --> 1:29:58.120 oppo research bullshit on it. So this is just straight 1:29:58.240 --> 1:30:12.160 up a sham. There's no actual investigation going on. The 1:30:12.240 --> 1:30:14.600 media people at the time should have been able to 1:30:14.600 --> 1:30:17.160 figure out that obviously this thing was bullshit, right, but 1:30:17.439 --> 1:30:19.479 nobody looked into it except for this one guy and 1:30:19.479 --> 1:30:21.679 the Senate Duciary Committee, And so the support comes back 1:30:21.720 --> 1:30:23.679 and goes like, yeah, we did no research. We talked 1:30:23.720 --> 1:30:26.759 to like ten people and we didn't like ask them anything, 1:30:26.800 --> 1:30:28.559 and we didn't use any of the research that we had, 1:30:28.680 --> 1:30:32.679 and we have cleared this guy. As this is happening, right, 1:30:32.760 --> 1:30:35.479 the Judiciary Committee Democrats are like trying to figure out 1:30:35.479 --> 1:30:38.680 what the fuck is going on. And this begins a 1:30:39.479 --> 1:30:43.200 six year process of a Senator White House just fighting 1:30:43.200 --> 1:30:45.960 a war with the actual White House and the FBI 1:30:46.080 --> 1:30:47.680 and the DODA to try to figure out what the 1:30:47.680 --> 1:30:51.320 fuck just happens. And the interesting part of this also 1:30:51.560 --> 1:30:53.519 is that so obviously the Trump administration was never going 1:30:53.520 --> 1:30:55.400 to talk to them, right, which is idience of itself 1:30:55.439 --> 1:30:58.160 incredibly disturbing that like the Senate Judiciary Committee, who in 1:30:58.240 --> 1:31:00.639 theory is one of the organizations supposed to be doing 1:31:00.640 --> 1:31:03.320 oversight of the FBI, would send requests of the FBI 1:31:03.320 --> 1:31:04.760 for your information, the FBI would just tell him to 1:31:04.800 --> 1:31:07.800 fuck off. Yeah. But the interesting part is they kept 1:31:07.840 --> 1:31:12.080 doing this under Biden. So Biden's FBI was also doing this. 1:31:12.240 --> 1:31:12.800 It was awesome. 1:31:13.080 --> 1:31:14.840 I love, I love they do a greta, which fucking 1:31:14.880 --> 1:31:18.680 liberals like have concluded politically at least that they have 1:31:18.760 --> 1:31:22.200 to be as like vociferously pro law enforcement as they can, 1:31:22.280 --> 1:31:24.680 and all cops ever do is say, we are just 1:31:24.800 --> 1:31:29.599 waiting for the chance to kill you. Like, yeah, it's great, cool, 1:31:30.160 --> 1:31:30.719 good stuff. 1:31:31.200 --> 1:31:34.160 I'm going to go relign from this. It's so insane. 1:31:34.800 --> 1:31:37.320 When the Senators followed up, they faced the challenge of 1:31:37.360 --> 1:31:41.360 aligning FBI, DOJ, and White House equities. They sent like 1:31:41.560 --> 1:31:44.439 requests for the emails between Trump and the FBI right 1:31:44.520 --> 1:31:46.599 figure out whether Trump was doing the thing he was doing, 1:31:46.640 --> 1:31:50.120 which was like directly running the investigation himself. The FBI 1:31:50.160 --> 1:31:53.160 claimed it cannot answer without authorization from the DOJ in 1:31:53.160 --> 1:31:56.559 the White House. The DOJ directed the senator's inquiries to 1:31:56.560 --> 1:31:58.439 the White House and the FBI, and the White House 1:31:58.439 --> 1:32:01.360 referred the senators back to the agency. So they're doing 1:32:01.400 --> 1:32:03.639 this like they're doing the like the circular run around 1:32:03.720 --> 1:32:05.479 thing you give him your insurance company where they tell 1:32:05.520 --> 1:32:06.880 you to talk to three people and every single one 1:32:06.920 --> 1:32:08.000 of them tells you to talk to the other one. 1:32:08.000 --> 1:32:11.479 But again, this is the Biden DOJ, the Biden FBI, 1:32:11.520 --> 1:32:15.519 and the Biden administration all doing this. The FBI finally 1:32:15.560 --> 1:32:20.320 provides documents about like their contact with Trump for the investigation. 1:32:20.800 --> 1:32:25.080 They finally provide the documents in November of twenty twenty three. 1:32:25.120 --> 1:32:30.719 This investigation started in late twenty eighteen. It took half 1:32:30.760 --> 1:32:35.040 a decade, almost half of which was under the Biden administration. 1:32:35.920 --> 1:32:39.640 And also Senator Whitehouse literally threatening to torpedo and nomination 1:32:39.800 --> 1:32:42.680 for the DOJ's Office of Legal Counsel, Like he had 1:32:42.720 --> 1:32:46.280 to threaten the Department of Justice in order to get 1:32:46.320 --> 1:32:49.040 them to send the documents that proved that Trump colluded 1:32:49.080 --> 1:32:52.960 to top Kavanaugh investigation, which even just some like a 1:32:53.000 --> 1:32:55.840 political standpoint from the Democrats, right, why the fuck would 1:32:55.880 --> 1:32:58.360 you not want that in the open? I mean, I guess, 1:32:58.360 --> 1:32:59.840 I guess unless you're Jo Biden, you don't want every 1:33:00.000 --> 1:33:01.920 remembering like all the shit you need to need a hill. 1:33:01.960 --> 1:33:06.280 But like this is literally free political amministionat of your opponent, 1:33:06.600 --> 1:33:11.200 like abusing the political process. And it still took a 1:33:11.280 --> 1:33:15.360 Democratic senator just directly threatening the DOJ of a democratic 1:33:15.400 --> 1:33:16.679 administration to get this out. 1:33:17.160 --> 1:33:20.559 I just like it also took so many years, Like yeah, 1:33:20.720 --> 1:33:24.559 Havanat has has been able to take away and fuck 1:33:24.640 --> 1:33:29.439 up our rights since what twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen. Yeah, 1:33:29.600 --> 1:33:34.000 and the damage he's done is permanent. 1:33:34.320 --> 1:33:37.599 Yeah, he will be around in office, possible, very likely 1:33:37.640 --> 1:33:39.440 for most of the rest of our lives. 1:33:39.640 --> 1:33:40.280 Yeah. 1:33:40.479 --> 1:33:42.960 Like I said earlier, it's only fifty nine years old. 1:33:43.160 --> 1:33:45.400 Yeah, he could have another thirty years there at least. 1:33:45.600 --> 1:33:48.480 Yeah. And if this stuff had been known, she absolutely 1:33:48.520 --> 1:33:49.920 would not have gotten nominated. 1:33:50.000 --> 1:33:50.160 Right. 1:33:50.320 --> 1:33:54.679 There were two unbelievably close votes to get him appointed. 1:33:54.760 --> 1:33:54.880 Right. 1:33:55.000 --> 1:33:56.920 There was a first vote where the Republicans trade a 1:33:57.000 --> 1:34:02.200 bypassed the Fillow Bobster and still almost lost. And it 1:34:02.280 --> 1:34:05.840 turns out that, Okay, the actual final vote ended up 1:34:05.880 --> 1:34:09.280 being fifty to forty eight with two abstensions, and one 1:34:09.320 --> 1:34:11.040 of the essensions is this guy was going to his 1:34:11.080 --> 1:34:15.280 daughter's wedding or something. But the other abstention was Lisa Morowski, 1:34:15.320 --> 1:34:17.479 who's the senator from Alaska who's like the most sort 1:34:17.479 --> 1:34:20.479 of liberal Republican senators and she does like a coward 1:34:20.520 --> 1:34:23.360 present vote so it can happen. And if she had 1:34:23.439 --> 1:34:28.040 voted no, and if Joe Manchin hadn't fucking cross party 1:34:28.120 --> 1:34:30.720 lines to get to get him in office, which I 1:34:30.720 --> 1:34:32.479 think I also people just forget about. Joe mentioned that 1:34:32.520 --> 1:34:36.639 he is also like, individually specifically the guy who got 1:34:36.720 --> 1:34:40.479 fucking Kavanaugh pointed this would have failed, and the only 1:34:40.520 --> 1:34:43.080 reason that it didn't fail and that this guy was 1:34:43.120 --> 1:34:47.360 able to fucking destroy Roephi Wade is that Trump just 1:34:47.439 --> 1:34:50.640 straight up ran a fake FBI investigation and lied to 1:34:50.680 --> 1:34:54.160 everyone about it and fucking railroad of the nomination through. 1:34:54.760 --> 1:34:57.920 That's fucking Kavanaugh. And I think I think the thing 1:34:57.920 --> 1:35:00.439 that calls on here again is like every single week 1:35:00.600 --> 1:35:03.559 of Trump is just like this, yeah, right, Like every 1:35:03.600 --> 1:35:05.680 single day has some bullshit like this. It just like 1:35:05.720 --> 1:35:07.280 fucks everyone for the rest of their lives. 1:35:07.400 --> 1:35:07.599 Yep. 1:35:08.320 --> 1:35:13.679 And it's deeply grim that he could take power again 1:35:14.040 --> 1:35:16.400 and we could get back to like the stuff he 1:35:16.439 --> 1:35:18.040 was doing at the end of his administratory. Who's just 1:35:18.040 --> 1:35:21.000 like having protesters killed with federal worshels, Like. 1:35:21.320 --> 1:35:24.840 Yeah, That's the scary thing about it, right, is there's 1:35:24.880 --> 1:35:27.599 not any kind of like functional resistance to this. Right, 1:35:27.680 --> 1:35:33.160 the left has no power, has no serious organizing capacity 1:35:33.280 --> 1:35:36.000 in the United States, and can't get on the same 1:35:36.040 --> 1:35:39.640 page about anything that matters, whereas liberals, when they have 1:35:39.840 --> 1:35:45.200 four years of control of the federal government cannot adequately 1:35:45.360 --> 1:35:50.520 prosecute an attempt to overthrow the government and murder them. Yeah, 1:35:50.560 --> 1:35:54.280 so I don't know, you know, make sure you got 1:35:54.280 --> 1:35:57.800 clean water, folks, check on that garden. I don't know 1:35:57.800 --> 1:35:58.280 what to tell you. 1:35:58.600 --> 1:36:02.519 It's just so bleak because, like I said earlier, everything 1:36:02.600 --> 1:36:03.719 is so permanent. 1:36:03.920 --> 1:36:05.280 Yeah, you know what I mean, like. 1:36:05.439 --> 1:36:06.800 Just lasts so fucking long. 1:36:07.040 --> 1:36:11.560 Yeah, it lasts so long, and like and like we 1:36:11.560 --> 1:36:13.880 we don't even know the damage that Kavanaugh is going 1:36:13.920 --> 1:36:16.280 to do to our society because of Trump. And it's 1:36:16.280 --> 1:36:20.920 also just terrifying that, you know, Trump was able to 1:36:20.960 --> 1:36:24.559 manipulate the system in this way and that so many 1:36:24.600 --> 1:36:29.520 people were silenced and now our rights are gone, yeah, 1:36:29.640 --> 1:36:31.439 or our rights are going to be taken away. We 1:36:31.479 --> 1:36:33.599 have no idea what else is going to be taken Yea, 1:36:34.000 --> 1:36:35.800 we have no idea. What else is going to get 1:36:35.800 --> 1:36:38.160 fucked up? We have ideas we have. 1:36:38.200 --> 1:36:41.599 The idea is that that Again, the problem is the 1:36:41.720 --> 1:36:46.280 root of the problem is that liberals work tirelessly in 1:36:46.320 --> 1:36:48.880 this country to stop the left from gaining any power, 1:36:49.280 --> 1:36:51.840 and the left works tirelessly to stop itself from having 1:36:51.880 --> 1:36:55.560 any kind of influence by having no capacity to organize 1:36:55.800 --> 1:36:59.040 or compromise with people who do not agree with whatever 1:36:59.040 --> 1:37:02.400 their little brand of leftism is. Right, whereas conservatives are 1:37:02.400 --> 1:37:05.400 willing to work together with other conservatives they hate for 1:37:05.400 --> 1:37:08.160 forty straight years in order to get us to the 1:37:08.160 --> 1:37:11.400 position that we're in. That's what happened is they had 1:37:12.240 --> 1:37:16.919 message discipline, they had organizing discipline, and they successfully pushed 1:37:17.120 --> 1:37:20.680 their madness into the mainstream in such a way that 1:37:20.800 --> 1:37:23.559 now the Democratic Party, in a lot of ways is 1:37:23.720 --> 1:37:27.000 expending a huge amount of its efforts on moving in 1:37:27.040 --> 1:37:30.000 the direction of that madness, especially as regards immigration. Look 1:37:30.000 --> 1:37:32.160 at where we've moved on immigration from twenty sixteen to 1:37:32.160 --> 1:37:36.880 twenty twenty four. Right, That is the result of disciplined 1:37:37.640 --> 1:37:41.840 power building as opposed to know what liberals and the 1:37:41.920 --> 1:37:44.680 left to do, which is fight with each other and 1:37:44.760 --> 1:37:48.680 fight amongst each other and engage in a mix of 1:37:48.760 --> 1:37:54.360 like craven power politics and worshiping various con artists, and 1:37:54.400 --> 1:37:57.080 the right worships con artists too. They just actually get 1:37:57.120 --> 1:37:58.000 power out of the deal. 1:37:58.920 --> 1:38:02.679 Yeah, like this. The other terrifying thing about this story 1:38:03.080 --> 1:38:06.920 is that it's not fucking everywhere. It's not everywhere. Ten 1:38:07.040 --> 1:38:11.360 years ago, this would be the scandal of all scandals, 1:38:12.320 --> 1:38:14.880 and it's barely barely a headline. 1:38:15.040 --> 1:38:16.519 No, because no one's going to do anything about it. 1:38:16.520 --> 1:38:18.679 It's like, it's like Elon Musk paying people a million 1:38:18.720 --> 1:38:23.040 dollars a day to vote in Pennsylvania, Like that should 1:38:23.080 --> 1:38:26.200 be illegal. Like you can at least make a strong 1:38:26.280 --> 1:38:29.480 case based on existing laws that that is election interference, 1:38:29.760 --> 1:38:31.559 the kind of which that can land you in prison. 1:38:31.720 --> 1:38:33.599 Everyone knows, nothing's going to happen to him. 1:38:33.840 --> 1:38:34.880 Nothing's going to happen to him. 1:38:34.880 --> 1:38:37.759 If Kamala wins, right, if the Dims have a blowout 1:38:37.800 --> 1:38:40.200 and wipe up with both Houses of Congress, nothing is 1:38:40.240 --> 1:38:41.719 going to happen to Elon Musk. 1:38:41.960 --> 1:38:45.680 It's yeah, again, just like we have no idea how 1:38:46.160 --> 1:38:48.240 how long this is going to get throw on and 1:38:48.280 --> 1:38:49.439 how much worse it could get. 1:38:50.160 --> 1:38:54.840 And uh, yeah I have some ideas, but I podcasted 1:38:54.880 --> 1:39:00.200 about those back in twenty nineteen. Sophie. 1:39:00.320 --> 1:39:02.559 I was there. I was quite literally there. 1:39:02.640 --> 1:39:03.320 Yeah. 1:39:03.360 --> 1:39:05.719 But yeah, so thanks Miyah. 1:39:06.080 --> 1:39:08.439 That was a boomer, Thank you, Mia. No, this was good. 1:39:08.720 --> 1:39:10.040 I uh, this is solid. 1:39:10.439 --> 1:39:11.439 And again when. 1:39:11.320 --> 1:39:13.479 I started this by saying, my second to the last 1:39:13.560 --> 1:39:16.320 conversation I had in person with my mom was about Kavanaugh. 1:39:16.360 --> 1:39:19.160 It was hers almost screaming at me because of how 1:39:19.240 --> 1:39:22.120 unfair what the Democrats did to Brett Kavanaugh was because 1:39:22.160 --> 1:39:24.479 of the good man that they and she felt the 1:39:24.520 --> 1:39:27.840 same way about Clarence Thomas right that like these guys 1:39:27.880 --> 1:39:31.439 were the victims of media assassination attempts. She feels the 1:39:31.439 --> 1:39:34.400 same way about Bill Cosby. By the way, anyway, whatever, 1:39:34.400 --> 1:39:37.800 I don't need to yell about my mom. I've yelled 1:39:37.800 --> 1:39:38.959 about enough this episode. 1:39:39.280 --> 1:39:41.639 Tomorrow's episode will be more fun. I promise we're gonna 1:39:41.840 --> 1:39:44.479 We're gonna yell about why the Kunda Wild Prizes fake 1:39:44.560 --> 1:39:46.040 and read some of the dubbest things you've ever seen 1:39:46.040 --> 1:39:46.639 in your life. 1:39:46.840 --> 1:39:48.920 Hell, yeah, there we go. There we go, back to 1:39:48.960 --> 1:39:51.759 the good stuff, Back to the good stuff. 1:39:52.000 --> 1:39:54.320 Yeah. MEA has been deeply excited to do this episode, 1:39:54.400 --> 1:39:58.160 So look look out for that one. And I don't know, uh, 1:39:58.400 --> 1:40:00.840 touch grass and peta dog if it wants you to. 1:40:01.600 --> 1:40:25.280 Yeah bye, no. 1:40:24.160 --> 1:40:27.120 Bell prize, welcome to it could happen here a podcast 1:40:27.320 --> 1:40:32.599 about Nobel Prizes. I guess I'm your host via loog 1:40:32.720 --> 1:40:33.400 with Me with Me? 1:40:33.479 --> 1:40:37.200 Is James Himia excited to hear about the dynamite guy prices. 1:40:37.640 --> 1:40:40.479 Yeah, so, as people I think are aware, the man 1:40:40.479 --> 1:40:43.840 who invented dynamite established a bunch of prizes to be 1:40:44.000 --> 1:40:47.839 like the pinnacle of human achievement. Right, every years decided 1:40:47.960 --> 1:40:49.920 I'm a bunch of judges and you know, and this 1:40:50.040 --> 1:40:52.400 year in the Nobel Prize in physics, right, Nobel Prize 1:40:52.400 --> 1:40:56.599 in Physics went to two guys who did a whole 1:40:56.640 --> 1:40:58.960 bunch of the sort of fundamental basic work on what 1:40:59.000 --> 1:41:02.840 became machine learning algorithms. And as annoying as modern AI is, 1:41:02.920 --> 1:41:06.080 like machine learning algorithms has fundamentally changed the way that 1:41:06.200 --> 1:41:08.519 science works. It changed the strong and I've used it. 1:41:08.560 --> 1:41:11.200 I used the new astronomy like there's all this. You know, 1:41:11.360 --> 1:41:15.320 it has fundamentally changed the way that humanity functions. Yeah, 1:41:15.400 --> 1:41:18.559 it's an important discovery. Yeah, and you know, the Nobel 1:41:18.600 --> 1:41:21.840 Price in Medicine went to a group of people who 1:41:21.960 --> 1:41:25.680 discovered micro rna, which is like a different type of 1:41:25.760 --> 1:41:30.760 RNA that fundamentally changed the way that we understand how 1:41:30.960 --> 1:41:34.960 like gene regulation works. It's like a fundamental path breaking 1:41:35.400 --> 1:41:37.679 thing in biology. They got that, they got the fucking 1:41:37.720 --> 1:41:40.519 medicine double price for the Nobel Price in Economics went 1:41:40.680 --> 1:41:47.080 to uh three guys who discovered that institutions affect prosperity. 1:41:47.600 --> 1:41:54.400 Huge groundbreaking shit. It's like economists don't discover shit. They 1:41:54.479 --> 1:41:58.120 just they just say shit, and then other economists are like, yeah, 1:41:58.120 --> 1:41:59.400 cool this okay. 1:42:00.040 --> 1:42:02.280 So I when I was originally planning this episode, this 1:42:02.320 --> 1:42:04.679 is going to be an episode about the fake Nobel Prize, 1:42:04.680 --> 1:42:06.760 which is the economics Nobel Prize wich We've talked about 1:42:06.760 --> 1:42:08.800 on the show before, but it's worth saying again this 1:42:08.920 --> 1:42:11.240 is not a real Nobel Prize, Like, this is not 1:42:11.360 --> 1:42:13.799 one of the prizes that was established by Alfred Nobel. 1:42:14.160 --> 1:42:17.439 This was a thing established by the sweetest central Bank 1:42:17.439 --> 1:42:20.760 as a way to push neoliberal economics new classical economics. 1:42:21.120 --> 1:42:25.679 And every year they're always very stupid, is the thing, right, 1:42:26.320 --> 1:42:29.000 And my plan for this episode because I started seeing 1:42:29.040 --> 1:42:31.080 stuff about this Nobel Prize and I was looking at 1:42:31.080 --> 1:42:32.240 this and I was like, this is the this is 1:42:32.280 --> 1:42:34.200 the one of the dumbest ones they've had since they 1:42:34.240 --> 1:42:36.120 gave out one in the two thousands for realizing that 1:42:36.160 --> 1:42:41.120 people could simply not make a trade. Like But I 1:42:41.160 --> 1:42:42.760 was like, Okay, I'm going to go read all of 1:42:42.800 --> 1:42:44.840 these papers, right, We're going to come back, We're going 1:42:44.920 --> 1:42:46.720 to have a detail analysis of it. And and I'm 1:42:46.760 --> 1:42:51.080 reading these papers and it's like it's nothing these three 1:42:51.080 --> 1:42:54.880 economists are They're from what's called institutional economics. These are 1:42:54.880 --> 1:42:57.559 supposed to be the smart ones, right, These are These 1:42:57.560 --> 1:43:00.080 are the economists that like the neoclassical economists had to 1:43:00.200 --> 1:43:02.840 bring in, like the normalio classical comments has to bring in, 1:43:02.880 --> 1:43:05.720 because their models don't work right. And and the thing 1:43:05.720 --> 1:43:07.559 that makes them like quote unquote smart is that they 1:43:07.640 --> 1:43:09.720 understand the institutions exist, and they know how to use 1:43:09.800 --> 1:43:13.720 really really basic game theory models. And this makes them 1:43:13.760 --> 1:43:17.720 like the cutting edge, the absolute elite cutting edge of 1:43:17.800 --> 1:43:21.679 bortlaw economics on the front lines. What are these people discovered? 1:43:21.920 --> 1:43:24.800 Want the people win this prize for? Right? Okay, the 1:43:24.880 --> 1:43:27.840 thing that they won this prize for like the initial thing, 1:43:27.960 --> 1:43:29.439 and there's a couple of stuff that will get you 1:43:29.479 --> 1:43:31.759 in a second, but like the big thing that they 1:43:31.840 --> 1:43:36.640 figured out is do a series of thunderously stupid regression analyzes. 1:43:37.360 --> 1:43:40.920 They discovered something. I don't even know how to frame 1:43:41.720 --> 1:43:44.720 the magnitude of this discovery. But it took them a 1:43:44.880 --> 1:43:47.960 shit ton of math and like a bunch of like 1:43:48.360 --> 1:43:53.160 tabulations of mortality data to discover that in some places 1:43:53.439 --> 1:43:57.479 European colonial powers formed settular colonies and in some places 1:43:57.520 --> 1:44:00.479 they established colonial rule that wasn't based on settler colonies, 1:44:00.479 --> 1:44:05.000 and that these were different. This is what they won 1:44:05.040 --> 1:44:07.879 the Nobel Prize for. They did a bunch of regression 1:44:07.880 --> 1:44:12.559 analyses and were like, holy shit, in some places the 1:44:12.600 --> 1:44:15.960 Europeans did similar colonies and in some places they didn't, 1:44:16.200 --> 1:44:18.400 and it had to do with like disease and a 1:44:18.479 --> 1:44:21.519 level of redistance from the indigenous population. They won a 1:44:21.560 --> 1:44:26.000 Nobel Prize in Economics for this Are you fucking kidding? 1:44:26.200 --> 1:44:28.640 As also a paper that you could write for my 1:44:28.800 --> 1:44:31.640 history one ten class at community college. 1:44:32.320 --> 1:44:34.960 Okay, some of the discourse about this, right, the Marxist 1:44:34.960 --> 1:44:40.040 economist Sharramazar pointed out that, like these fundamental observations were 1:44:40.080 --> 1:44:42.519 made by another guy we've talked about on this show, 1:44:42.640 --> 1:44:46.799 the red again Marxist economist Paul Baran. And that's a 1:44:46.840 --> 1:44:50.720 good point. But also what I was thinking about how 1:44:50.720 --> 1:44:53.479 to do this episode, right, This isn't a thing like 1:44:53.600 --> 1:44:55.759 with like Donald Harris, like we talked abou Kabal Harris's 1:44:55.800 --> 1:44:58.679 dad's book, right, and that's that's a book where there's 1:44:58.880 --> 1:45:00.280 there's like ideas in it. 1:45:00.400 --> 1:45:00.519 Right. 1:45:01.200 --> 1:45:02.920 You can go through it and you can watch them 1:45:02.960 --> 1:45:06.240 developing ideas. You can't do that with this because these 1:45:06.280 --> 1:45:09.840 people are not developing ideas. They have discovered the most 1:45:09.920 --> 1:45:14.040 obvious things. They have read a single book about history, 1:45:14.240 --> 1:45:16.000 and they have attempted to use a bunch of regression 1:45:16.000 --> 1:45:18.840 analyses to prove things that like you can just read 1:45:19.240 --> 1:45:22.720 a Wikipedia article and discover about the course of colonization. 1:45:23.280 --> 1:45:25.320 Yeah, and then you can go back and to a 1:45:25.320 --> 1:45:28.120 bunch of aggressionalities to prove something that everyone already needs. 1:45:28.200 --> 1:45:30.439 Yeah. And the place that I got to about this 1:45:30.560 --> 1:45:33.840 is I have the shoke about Maoism where all the 1:45:33.880 --> 1:45:35.720 things that people get from Maoism are things that you 1:45:35.720 --> 1:45:38.000 should have learned in elementary school. Like one of the 1:45:38.040 --> 1:45:39.840 most common things you get from maoist is like, ah, 1:45:39.880 --> 1:45:42.599 you have to read no investigation, no right to speak, 1:45:42.640 --> 1:45:48.000 And like, my friend, okay, if you needed maose done 1:45:48.600 --> 1:45:53.080 to tell you that you needed to research something before 1:45:53.120 --> 1:45:57.160 you talked about it, what the fuck happened in your 1:45:57.320 --> 1:46:01.280 like the rest with your life? What we're wrong with 1:46:01.320 --> 1:46:03.639 your education? Like what has gone wrong with the way 1:46:03.680 --> 1:46:06.120 you think about the world that you needed? Nowse Dung 1:46:06.640 --> 1:46:10.360 can tell you this and this this is what most 1:46:10.800 --> 1:46:13.200 Nobel prizes and economics are and this is the most 1:46:13.360 --> 1:46:18.160 that it has ever been. So basically their argument is that, like, 1:46:19.000 --> 1:46:22.040 this is also an argument that Paul Baran makes is 1:46:22.040 --> 1:46:24.360 that like, okay, depending on whether you're dealing with a 1:46:24.360 --> 1:46:28.360 settler quality or a sort of like India style like 1:46:28.479 --> 1:46:31.960 administrative colony, I guess I'm like a term for it. 1:46:31.840 --> 1:46:33.760 It gets like an extractive colony, where you have more 1:46:33.800 --> 1:46:36.519 about extracted labor, raw materials and settling. 1:46:36.640 --> 1:46:38.960 Yeah, like that changes the kinds of institutions that are 1:46:38.960 --> 1:46:42.519 set up. And like, okay, you can if you want 1:46:42.560 --> 1:46:47.760 to credit Paul Baron for the discovery that like the 1:46:47.840 --> 1:46:52.880 settler colonies and like extractive colonies have different legal institutions 1:46:52.920 --> 1:46:54.800 and they function differently, and that has had long range 1:46:54.880 --> 1:46:59.040 economic impacts, like stretching into the future. But like this 1:46:59.120 --> 1:47:00.880 is something again that you you can just you can 1:47:00.960 --> 1:47:04.360 find in a history book and immediately understand. And these 1:47:04.360 --> 1:47:06.040 people have tried to do this. They're trying to like 1:47:06.080 --> 1:47:09.160 track the difference in why were like some colonies more 1:47:09.160 --> 1:47:12.479 prosperous later than other colonies. Right, They're trying to track 1:47:12.560 --> 1:47:15.879 this process through a whole bunch of incredibly sketchy regression 1:47:15.880 --> 1:47:19.280 analyzes and weird assumptions about what income is they're trying 1:47:19.320 --> 1:47:22.240 to track, Like why was it that like China and 1:47:22.280 --> 1:47:25.320 Turkey were like rich in the fifteen hundreds, but they 1:47:25.479 --> 1:47:27.360 ceased to be rich after that. Oh sick. 1:47:27.400 --> 1:47:30.280 They're doing a fucking Jared Diamond. Yeah, they're doing a 1:47:30.320 --> 1:47:31.240 West and the rest. 1:47:31.360 --> 1:47:34.519 Yeah, yeah, it's wonder a Jared Diamond bullshit, except you know, 1:47:34.680 --> 1:47:38.880 with China standard of living in Europe, if you actually 1:47:38.920 --> 1:47:40.840 go back to the historical record and aren't doing their 1:47:40.880 --> 1:47:45.799 like stupid weird like using population density as an index 1:47:45.880 --> 1:47:49.360 for stuff, whether they start bringing Malthus into it. If 1:47:49.360 --> 1:47:51.360 you don't do that and you look at like the 1:47:51.439 --> 1:47:55.360 actual historical record, like the average quality of life in 1:47:55.479 --> 1:47:58.519 China like is not eclipsed by Europe until like the 1:47:58.600 --> 1:48:02.320 May eighteen hundreds. Yeah, like you know, so like this 1:48:02.360 --> 1:48:04.000 is all this is all like very even. 1:48:03.880 --> 1:48:06.759 Then, like life expects in the midic and hundreds didn't 1:48:06.920 --> 1:48:09.719 it took decades to go up after the Industrial Revolution 1:48:09.920 --> 1:48:10.599 right lately. 1:48:10.720 --> 1:48:12.439 Yeah, Oh, this is this is sort of drawing to 1:48:12.680 --> 1:48:14.840 what they're trying to do here, is that like a 1:48:14.840 --> 1:48:16.479 lot of this is it's just it's directly it's the 1:48:16.479 --> 1:48:19.000 product of colonialism, right, and they sort of acknowledge that 1:48:19.040 --> 1:48:21.559 colonialism existed and that it was like extractive. But their 1:48:21.800 --> 1:48:24.479 job is to take the basic insights of history and 1:48:24.520 --> 1:48:27.439 depoliticize it. Right, We're going to get you later. One 1:48:27.439 --> 1:48:30.839 of the things they win this prize for is depoliticizing revolution, 1:48:32.040 --> 1:48:35.160 turning revolution into like a Nashi Colubrium game theory thing. 1:48:35.520 --> 1:48:38.840 Oh god, which is unbelievable. It's incredible. 1:48:39.240 --> 1:48:41.280 Yeah, these are the kind of people who I have 1:48:41.320 --> 1:48:43.680 to deal with on a daily basis on list serves, 1:48:43.960 --> 1:48:47.120 Like these are the economists emailing the entire list serve 1:48:47.160 --> 1:48:49.479 with a unique insight into something that we all you 1:48:49.520 --> 1:48:53.040 thirty ye, like the old faculty email list is plagued 1:48:53.120 --> 1:48:54.880 by this kind of individual. 1:48:54.479 --> 1:48:58.320 Yeah, and like like this is a thing where so 1:48:58.439 --> 1:49:01.840 they're absolutely convinced that, like, like the one hundred percent 1:49:01.920 --> 1:49:04.320 convinced that the thing that leads to economic prosperity is 1:49:04.320 --> 1:49:09.840 like the safeguarding of individual property rights. And like I 1:49:09.840 --> 1:49:12.120 will give them a little tiny bit of credit where 1:49:12.120 --> 1:49:15.520 they're like, well, yeah, so direct colonial institutions were attractive 1:49:15.520 --> 1:49:18.240 and they're bad because they infringe on property rights. And 1:49:18.280 --> 1:49:22.160 that's mildly better than most of these people yeah, but 1:49:22.200 --> 1:49:24.360 these are these are these are again, these are the 1:49:24.400 --> 1:49:27.640 most advanced Bushwai economists, right, they're not. They're not like 1:49:27.720 --> 1:49:31.120 pro Rhodesia and neoclassical guys, right, they do. They do 1:49:31.160 --> 1:49:32.400 have a lie where they say, we're not going to 1:49:32.439 --> 1:49:34.120 say when the colonialism is good or bad. And I 1:49:34.120 --> 1:49:36.519 think that's been misinterpreted a little bit because like in 1:49:36.560 --> 1:49:39.400 their work they're pretty clear that it's bad. 1:49:39.680 --> 1:49:42.320 They're just trying to make like a moral judgment because 1:49:42.320 --> 1:49:42.920 God forbid. 1:49:43.040 --> 1:49:45.360 Yeah, well they said, they're saying it's extractive and they 1:49:45.439 --> 1:49:48.120 think that like attractions bad because it's inefficients. Yeah, but 1:49:48.160 --> 1:49:50.719 basically the things like that, they think that like, Okay, 1:49:50.720 --> 1:49:52.519 so like if you if you set up like regimes 1:49:52.520 --> 1:49:55.880 that like safeguard private property, this will like make people 1:49:56.400 --> 1:50:00.400 like richer. But I want to read a quote from 1:50:00.400 --> 1:50:03.679 one of the papers they wrote. Quote, in comparatively poor 1:50:03.720 --> 1:50:06.960 and less dense populated regions where Europeans could easily settle, 1:50:07.040 --> 1:50:10.400 it was in the colonizer's interest to introduce inclusive economic 1:50:10.439 --> 1:50:13.880 institutions that helped to boost prosperity for the majority in 1:50:13.920 --> 1:50:14.719 the long run. 1:50:15.240 --> 1:50:20.320 No, now me, like they didn't go on to say 1:50:20.320 --> 1:50:23.080 how like yeah, but Britain built the railways in India, 1:50:23.160 --> 1:50:27.160 like like like. 1:50:27.320 --> 1:50:29.439 This is what he says, right, because what's happening here. 1:50:29.520 --> 1:50:31.320 You know, this is something that economists love to do. 1:50:31.360 --> 1:50:33.240 It's like economists love to go into other fields and 1:50:33.280 --> 1:50:35.559 to have to colonize them, right, Yes, Like what they're 1:50:35.560 --> 1:50:37.519 doing here is there they've gone into like this field 1:50:37.560 --> 1:50:40.720 of history. Yeah, and their attempting to colonized them, right, 1:50:41.360 --> 1:50:45.280 many such cases. Yeah, and you know they're looking at 1:50:45.280 --> 1:50:48.160 this stuff, right, and you got things like this where 1:50:48.160 --> 1:50:50.439 it's like no, like the economic institutions that were set 1:50:50.520 --> 1:50:54.759 up in like settler colonies were not designed to introduce 1:50:54.760 --> 1:50:57.720 inclusive economic institutions to like help boost the prosperity for 1:50:57.760 --> 1:50:59.400 the majority of the long run, like that was the 1:50:59.439 --> 1:51:04.080 result of social struggle. But they for some reason basically 1:51:04.080 --> 1:51:10.080 think that social struggles started in like the eighteen eighties. Yeah, 1:51:10.120 --> 1:51:13.519 the Noble Bell like committee, they're like econ fake Econdo 1:51:13.520 --> 1:51:16.479 Bell Committee like releases like a giant statement, Like there's 1:51:16.479 --> 1:51:18.880 like press summaries they have like a slightly more detail 1:51:18.880 --> 1:51:21.000 and they have like the econy one and I want 1:51:21.040 --> 1:51:24.800 to read this from so part of what they're doing, right, 1:51:24.880 --> 1:51:27.559 you're talking about like the work that was inspired by this, 1:51:28.600 --> 1:51:31.519 by the understanding that like the different institutions change economic 1:51:31.520 --> 1:51:35.599 outcomes quote better g and Ivery two thousand and five 1:51:35.760 --> 1:51:38.680 examined the legacy of British land institutions in India that 1:51:38.720 --> 1:51:42.880 gave cultivators in certain regions proprietary rights, including that productivity 1:51:42.920 --> 1:51:47.560 was higher in these regions post independence. Genioli and Rainier 1:51:47.600 --> 1:51:55.240 and Michaelopolis and Papa Iyadu studied the impact of differences 1:51:55.280 --> 1:51:59.120 in political centralization along ethnic groups dream dream pre colonial times. 1:51:59.479 --> 1:52:02.960 None documented the long run negative impacts of the slave 1:52:03.120 --> 1:52:07.080 trade Del ten by my non paper in two thousand 1:52:07.120 --> 1:52:08.719 and eight, so we'll go back to that. A second 1:52:09.040 --> 1:52:11.760 Del twenty ten investigated the long run effects of the 1:52:11.800 --> 1:52:15.160 so called meta system in operation between fifteen seventy three 1:52:15.200 --> 1:52:17.840 and eighteen twelve and Peru and Bolivian Peru, where men 1:52:17.880 --> 1:52:20.559 were forced to work in minds. Within the boundaries of 1:52:20.600 --> 1:52:23.400 meta household consumption was twenty five percent lower in twenty 1:52:23.439 --> 1:52:26.920 twenty one than just outside the boundaries. So what they 1:52:26.920 --> 1:52:31.439 have discovered here again in the late two thousands and 1:52:31.680 --> 1:52:36.080 early twenty tens, they discovered that slavery had long run 1:52:36.120 --> 1:52:39.080 negative economic impacts on the places where there was slavery. 1:52:40.160 --> 1:52:49.640 Jesus Christ, thanks for trying guys like this. 1:52:48.760 --> 1:52:51.719 And shit that they gave these people a Nobell prize 1:52:51.720 --> 1:52:58.520 for inspiring this is insane. 1:52:58.680 --> 1:53:01.400 You're right, economists due just love to tourists in someone 1:53:01.400 --> 1:53:06.000 else's discipline and like fucking have the most basic insight possible. 1:53:06.080 --> 1:53:08.200 Like all of these are things that would be like 1:53:08.720 --> 1:53:11.760 an interesting undergraduate paper, right, Like. 1:53:14.080 --> 1:53:16.519 Insane that these people are getting Noble. 1:53:16.360 --> 1:53:18.640 Prizes for this. So it's not insane, it's economics, but 1:53:19.120 --> 1:53:20.280 the same difference, I guess. 1:53:20.640 --> 1:53:22.400 All right, So speaking of economics, we need to go 1:53:22.439 --> 1:53:25.280 to ads because so it'll be a long term detrimental 1:53:25.320 --> 1:53:28.000 consequence for us. We don't, but when we come back, 1:53:28.479 --> 1:53:42.639 there's some more unreal bullshit. We are back, okay, So 1:53:43.280 --> 1:53:46.320 speaking of undergred bullshit, Well, what of the big things 1:53:46.320 --> 1:53:48.840 in their like initial paper where they did the whole 1:53:48.880 --> 1:53:51.000 Oh my god, they discovered that there's difference between settler 1:53:51.040 --> 1:53:53.479 colonies and like distractive colonies. One of the big things 1:53:53.479 --> 1:53:54.840 in that paper was they spent a whole bunch of 1:53:54.880 --> 1:53:57.320 time looking into it was the economic difference in these 1:53:57.320 --> 1:54:02.400 countries because of the climate which now, for those of 1:54:02.439 --> 1:54:05.080 you who are students of history, right, the thing you 1:54:05.080 --> 1:54:08.080 will remember is that this this was like the most 1:54:08.120 --> 1:54:11.959 advanced race science theory of the early eighteen hundreds. Yes, 1:54:12.360 --> 1:54:15.800 and these people are, like the economists are finally getting 1:54:15.840 --> 1:54:19.480 around to busting this. In like two thousand and four. 1:54:20.439 --> 1:54:22.840 They had a looked at skull measurements because I felt like, 1:54:23.000 --> 1:54:28.080 I feel like we're heading down that pod, like econophrenology. 1:54:27.720 --> 1:54:32.880 So bad, incredible. That was actually a whole thing in 1:54:33.200 --> 1:54:35.800 fascist Japan where they had all I can't remember if 1:54:35.800 --> 1:54:37.400 I ever talked about this in the episodes that I 1:54:37.440 --> 1:54:39.600 did on Bachelor's episodes, but they had this whole thing 1:54:39.640 --> 1:54:45.000 where they had like racial categorizations and like biological characteristics 1:54:45.000 --> 1:54:46.640 of like the races, and they would use them to 1:54:46.680 --> 1:54:49.280 like determine allocated efficiency of which slaves you should use 1:54:49.320 --> 1:54:51.920 to do what. Oh cool, cool, cool, cool cool. It 1:54:52.080 --> 1:54:56.280 was great and like great, I mean, like, holy fucking shit, 1:54:56.480 --> 1:54:57.560 it's so bad. 1:54:58.800 --> 1:55:01.120 They just missed that time. Those people could kick the 1:55:01.120 --> 1:55:03.480 shit out of a Nobel price. In like twenty twenty five, 1:55:03.640 --> 1:55:04.720 they came back with that stuff. 1:55:04.880 --> 1:55:06.880 Yeah, I get, like, you know, I mean, one of 1:55:06.920 --> 1:55:08.400 the things we were talking about, right, is like you 1:55:08.400 --> 1:55:09.960 were mentioning, is like these these are like these are 1:55:09.960 --> 1:55:13.120 like such obvious insights. And I remember, so I went 1:55:13.160 --> 1:55:15.000 to the University of Chicago, right, and that means that 1:55:15.040 --> 1:55:18.680 I fucking know all of these fucking ghouls, Like I 1:55:18.800 --> 1:55:20.440 met all the people who are going to become these 1:55:20.440 --> 1:55:23.040 econ dipshits. Yeah, you at ground zero for that shit. 1:55:23.440 --> 1:55:25.960 One of the things that's funny is that like this 1:55:26.080 --> 1:55:28.400 is like a particular thing of the University of Chicago ecome. 1:55:28.440 --> 1:55:30.600 People's like they all think they can do math and 1:55:30.640 --> 1:55:32.960 they can't, right, they suck at it. But one of 1:55:33.040 --> 1:55:34.280 the thin things I was almost like, so a bunch 1:55:34.280 --> 1:55:36.440 of my friends are math majors, and math majors can 1:55:36.560 --> 1:55:39.000 like actually do math, Like they could do the kind 1:55:39.040 --> 1:55:42.800 of math that's like there's no there aren't like numbers involved. 1:55:43.040 --> 1:55:45.920 Like it's like they're doing like field theory or some shit, 1:55:46.040 --> 1:55:47.840 or like they're doing a kind of math that when 1:55:47.880 --> 1:55:49.640 someone tries to explain it to you, they have to 1:55:49.640 --> 1:55:53.280 start like making diagrams of like the faces of cubes 1:55:53.400 --> 1:55:55.960 and then like explaining how there's like thirty two dimensional 1:55:56.040 --> 1:55:59.720 edges or whatever. And there's always this joke from the 1:55:59.760 --> 1:56:02.000 math professors where they'd be mad because like they look 1:56:02.000 --> 1:56:03.920 at the kondable price and they'd be like, this person made 1:56:04.080 --> 1:56:08.000 like an incredibly minor optimization to a trading algorithm that's 1:56:08.040 --> 1:56:10.520 like incredibly obvious to anyone who even sort of knows math, 1:56:10.560 --> 1:56:12.240 and they gave them at a mole price for this. And 1:56:12.320 --> 1:56:16.440 this is that before history. Yeah. So the other thing 1:56:16.800 --> 1:56:22.200 that they discovered, right, oh god, I I I'm trying 1:56:22.200 --> 1:56:26.120 to find the least depressing way to put this. They 1:56:26.720 --> 1:56:34.320 they discovered that there are revolutions, and they discovered that, 1:56:34.600 --> 1:56:38.240 like there are different interest groups in a revolution who 1:56:38.240 --> 1:56:40.280 have different interests and like like literally one of the 1:56:40.280 --> 1:56:42.120 things that they won this prize for is a paper 1:56:42.160 --> 1:56:47.080 where they they discovered that giving people like the franchise, 1:56:47.120 --> 1:56:48.920 like giving people the ability to vote, and setting up 1:56:48.960 --> 1:56:50.840 the welfare state was something that was done by elites 1:56:50.880 --> 1:56:56.040 to stop revolutions. Yeah. Again, Yeah, they have all these 1:56:56.080 --> 1:56:58.880 mathematical models that look very impressive until you realize they're 1:56:58.920 --> 1:57:01.960 just they're like incredibly stupid game theory bullshit to like 1:57:02.440 --> 1:57:05.280 determine whether or not a country will do a revolution. 1:57:05.840 --> 1:57:08.960 And their model for it basically is and they've discovered 1:57:09.040 --> 1:57:12.760 some some genuinely impressive insights for like a sixteen year 1:57:12.840 --> 1:57:15.560 old who wants to go into into political science. Right, Like, 1:57:15.840 --> 1:57:20.120 they discovered that, for example, elites have economic interests and 1:57:20.160 --> 1:57:24.480 that those economic interests are different from masses. But because 1:57:24.480 --> 1:57:27.280 they're economists, the only way they can conceptualize this is 1:57:27.280 --> 1:57:30.680 in terms of tax rates. So they make the argument, 1:57:30.720 --> 1:57:33.800 and this is not a joke. I am being serious 1:57:33.840 --> 1:57:37.080 about this. I read this fucking footnote. They make the 1:57:37.280 --> 1:57:41.640 argument that the overthrow of Salvador Allende was about elite 1:57:41.680 --> 1:57:42.480 tax rates. 1:57:44.720 --> 1:57:46.280 Oh, that one is fucking like. 1:57:47.720 --> 1:57:52.000 Jesus wept and it's so funny too. And this is 1:57:52.080 --> 1:57:54.560 this is like one of the biggest most obvious problems 1:57:54.560 --> 1:57:56.520 with their models, right, and this is this is this 1:57:56.600 --> 1:57:59.520 is from all the way back to like their whole 1:57:59.520 --> 1:58:01.320 thing about like how the institutions that were set up 1:58:01.320 --> 1:58:04.560 by colonialists being different affected like the long term trajectory 1:58:04.560 --> 1:58:09.360 of these countries. They treat these entire process because one 1:58:09.400 --> 1:58:10.720 of the things that they've discovered is that there are 1:58:10.760 --> 1:58:13.840 revolutions and counter revolutions. Because they read a Wikipedia article 1:58:13.960 --> 1:58:16.560 about like right wing coups in Latin America and they 1:58:16.560 --> 1:58:19.800 discovered that elites can do antidemocratic coups because they don't 1:58:19.800 --> 1:58:21.920 want their taxes to be too high. That's the only 1:58:21.960 --> 1:58:24.640 reason they do it. Yeah, But their discovery of this right, 1:58:24.960 --> 1:58:28.320 that that right wingers do antidemocratic cups to like preserve 1:58:28.480 --> 1:58:32.440 their wealth and political power. Right, But never, at any 1:58:32.480 --> 1:58:34.680 point in their process does it seem to have occurred 1:58:34.720 --> 1:58:39.720 to them that elites are not purely single national figures, 1:58:40.040 --> 1:58:42.800 and that there are in fact multinational elites and in 1:58:42.840 --> 1:58:46.640 fact there's something called the Central Intelligence Agency that doesn't 1:58:46.720 --> 1:58:49.840 come for me. These people do curse, and this is 1:58:49.880 --> 1:58:51.720 this is like the fundamental core of this right. It's 1:58:51.720 --> 1:58:54.040 like these models talk about sort of like elite distraction, right, 1:58:54.080 --> 1:58:56.880 but it's all framed through the language of sort of 1:58:56.920 --> 1:59:00.800 like taxes or like rents, basically like make thinking like 1:59:00.920 --> 1:59:02.879 land ranch or like they're fighting over a surplus. 1:59:03.000 --> 1:59:03.120 Right. 1:59:03.120 --> 1:59:05.960 Okay, but what they're trying to do is depoliticize how 1:59:06.000 --> 1:59:07.920 this actually works, because the thing you're trying to present 1:59:08.200 --> 1:59:13.040 is that all extraction happens through the state, right, Yeah, 1:59:13.240 --> 1:59:15.240 Like the state is the tool that at least use 1:59:15.320 --> 1:59:17.600 And now if you think about those about five seconds, 1:59:17.600 --> 1:59:20.320 we like, well, no, obviously, like there's an exploitation in 1:59:20.400 --> 1:59:24.000 like the workplace that's actually in these right military statorships, 1:59:24.000 --> 1:59:26.600 that's actually like the primary place where extraction happens. Where 1:59:26.600 --> 1:59:29.880 you shoot all the union organizers and then you fucking 1:59:30.040 --> 1:59:31.520 force solved the peasants to work in the fields and 1:59:31.520 --> 1:59:32.360 shoot them if they don't. 1:59:32.600 --> 1:59:32.760 Right. 1:59:33.960 --> 1:59:35.600 But but what what they're doing is attempting to sort 1:59:35.600 --> 1:59:38.960 of depoliticize the deep plicize this entire process. This is 1:59:39.000 --> 1:59:41.360 what I'm talking about. Like they are the most advanced 1:59:41.400 --> 1:59:45.280 bushwiw economists, and being the most advanced bushwise economists, they 1:59:45.280 --> 1:59:48.800 have finally figured out that the whole they call it 1:59:48.840 --> 1:59:51.440 modernization theory. That's not really what modernization theory is. But 1:59:52.120 --> 1:59:54.560 they're economists. They're fucking stupid. They don't know anything. You 1:59:55.120 --> 1:59:57.840 can't judge them for not actually knowing what modernization theory is. 1:59:58.040 --> 2:00:01.080 But they finally discovered that the old old line about 2:00:01.120 --> 2:00:07.400 how economic development and evidently brought democracy was wrong. Again, 2:00:07.720 --> 2:00:11.600 huge insight here. Yeah, but this this brings them into 2:00:11.640 --> 2:00:16.040 the world of democratic transitions. Now, after we come back 2:00:16.040 --> 2:00:17.760 from these ad breaks, I would to read you the 2:00:17.760 --> 2:00:20.320 most thunderously stupid line I've ever read in a paper 2:00:20.320 --> 2:00:22.440 in my entire life. And that is fucking saying something 2:00:22.480 --> 2:00:24.800 given how many eCOM papers I've read. Yeah, you've been 2:00:24.840 --> 2:00:39.720 in the trenches. Okay, oh god, let mean let me 2:00:39.800 --> 2:00:42.120 let me, let me read this line. This is This 2:00:42.160 --> 2:00:48.800 is a quote from the the ECON Nobel Prizes site. 2:00:49.520 --> 2:00:52.920 In the two thousand and sixth book, the two of 2:00:53.000 --> 2:00:56.320 the three economists made an ambitious attempt to provide quote, 2:00:56.360 --> 2:01:00.480 the first systematic formal analysis of the creation and consultalidation 2:01:00.600 --> 2:01:10.280 of democracy, the first. This is very funny. This is 2:01:10.320 --> 2:01:11.240 fucking insane. 2:01:11.560 --> 2:01:14.880 This is like an entire field of international relations, of 2:01:14.920 --> 2:01:15.720 political science. 2:01:15.720 --> 2:01:20.760 This is shit. Not notice that there are literally multiple disciplines. 2:01:20.960 --> 2:01:23.280 This is an entire field of study, right, like I 2:01:23.720 --> 2:01:26.200 have read it, Like obviously, this is an entire matcho 2:01:26.200 --> 2:01:28.760 political science. This is an entire branch of international relations. 2:01:28.800 --> 2:01:32.160 This is an entire branch of sociology. There's like there's 2:01:32.200 --> 2:01:35.160 like an anthropological school kind of that that's about this. 2:01:35.240 --> 2:01:39.400 They're interdisciplinary fucking institute, So that exists for this reason. 2:01:39.880 --> 2:01:42.760 Like this is shit that I studied from people who 2:01:42.840 --> 2:01:45.560 wrote books about it in the nineteen fifties. 2:01:46.280 --> 2:01:49.040 Like this is like like you and The funny thing 2:01:49.080 --> 2:01:52.400 is they are they literally quote people who are writing 2:01:52.440 --> 2:01:58.320 about this from the ages. People have been studying this 2:01:58.440 --> 2:02:01.400 for fucking it as long as they're it has been democracy. 2:02:01.920 --> 2:02:05.040 People have been studying this shita their ECON thing. They 2:02:05.080 --> 2:02:07.440 always was like, oh, nobody ever did formal analysis before. 2:02:07.440 --> 2:02:10.520 It's like, have you ever fucking read have you read 2:02:10.520 --> 2:02:14.120 a poly side paper? I understand, I too dropped my 2:02:14.200 --> 2:02:16.839 public policy major the moment I realized that public policy 2:02:16.920 --> 2:02:20.680 was just fucking econ with the lines in the graph relabeled, Yeah, 2:02:20.680 --> 2:02:23.160 have you ever fucking read one of these papers? Like 2:02:23.640 --> 2:02:26.320 you actually have a chance of understanding them because they 2:02:26.320 --> 2:02:28.800 are you know, okay, I can't bet you mean to 2:02:28.840 --> 2:02:31.320 political science. They are about one hundred and fifty times 2:02:31.320 --> 2:02:33.840 more advanced than the ECON papers on this subject. But 2:02:33.880 --> 2:02:36.480 that's still not like a very high level of advancement, right, 2:02:36.800 --> 2:02:39.680 But like still they're like they have formal models of this, 2:02:39.800 --> 2:02:42.920 They've done all the stupid math bullshit, the sociologists done 2:02:42.920 --> 2:02:47.080 all the number crunching, Like okay, okay, here's another go 2:02:47.240 --> 2:02:49.680 from this. The authors start the paper by showing that 2:02:49.720 --> 2:02:53.440 democratic transitions are precipitated by falls in GDP per capita. 2:02:54.000 --> 2:02:59.920 They discovered this two nineteen. I was having Twitter argument, 2:03:00.400 --> 2:03:04.160 like arguments again with like sixteen year olds on Twitter 2:03:04.440 --> 2:03:08.560 in like twenty sixteen about what the relationship between revolutions 2:03:08.600 --> 2:03:11.440 and declining and raising living standards were. Like this was 2:03:11.840 --> 2:03:13.800 Twitter discourse, right. 2:03:13.840 --> 2:03:19.800 This is seven years after the Arab Spring, just twenty nine. 2:03:19.960 --> 2:03:24.400 Yes, insane, they discovered this. Yeah, so they do form 2:03:24.440 --> 2:03:25.000 an analyzes. 2:03:25.080 --> 2:03:28.160 Is the Arab Spring famously the first and only democratic 2:03:28.200 --> 2:03:29.440 transition that's ever happened? 2:03:29.760 --> 2:03:33.560 No, that's like two recents. Okay, they're all all their stuff. 2:03:33.600 --> 2:03:35.280 Is what they call the quote the second wave of 2:03:35.320 --> 2:03:37.880 democratic transitions, which is the second wave of all because 2:03:37.880 --> 2:03:40.320 they're two social idiots, so that they're talking about the 2:03:41.000 --> 2:03:44.760 protomocracy movements in the eighties in Latin America and you, 2:03:44.880 --> 2:03:48.640 Sasha great, Yeah, which they also were just thunderously wrong 2:03:48.640 --> 2:03:50.680 about like all of the time. Yeah, I was gonna say, 2:03:50.880 --> 2:03:52.200 I can't wait to hear what they have to say 2:03:52.200 --> 2:03:55.200 about those. I'm literally not even gonna talk about it 2:03:55.240 --> 2:03:57.640 because it's nothing. It's just like air. 2:03:58.160 --> 2:04:01.640 I'm just looking up a very insightful paper that Ali 2:04:01.720 --> 2:04:04.680 Khadeva wrote, who I've been feuded several times, so different things. 2:04:04.880 --> 2:04:08.600 It's called stick stones and Molotovs cocktails that it. 2:04:08.560 --> 2:04:11.640 Is a fantastic analysis of democratic transitions. It's about like 2:04:12.320 --> 2:04:16.360 the strategic use of violence against property and the correlation 2:04:16.440 --> 2:04:20.120 it has between like successful democratic transition movements. 2:04:20.240 --> 2:04:23.240 It's good paper read that. Yeah, there's a lot of 2:04:23.280 --> 2:04:25.600 great like analysis. We'll put that in like the notes here. 2:04:25.640 --> 2:04:27.960 There's a lot of great analysis of this. But what 2:04:27.960 --> 2:04:29.280 they're trying to do is they're trying to build this 2:04:29.360 --> 2:04:33.080 model where they're like looking at like basically bargaining between 2:04:33.120 --> 2:04:34.680 like the masses and elites to decide whether you do 2:04:34.720 --> 2:04:36.640 a revolution or a counter revolution. And they're trying to 2:04:36.640 --> 2:04:39.320 build like a game theory model based on like fuck 2:04:39.400 --> 2:04:42.560 off the elites and like give ranting concessions and when 2:04:42.600 --> 2:04:44.920 they don'te grant concessions, and whether people believe they're getting 2:04:44.920 --> 2:04:47.160 grant concession. The other thing that's also very stupid about this, right, 2:04:47.200 --> 2:04:49.320 is that like the thing that they're interested in is 2:04:49.440 --> 2:04:53.560 why or why not people like believe that the olibal 2:04:53.600 --> 2:04:56.640 economical forms are going to work? And a lot of 2:04:56.720 --> 2:05:01.640 democratic transitions are also about like resistance to that shit. Yeah, 2:05:01.680 --> 2:05:04.440 like the revolutions to Dan for example, like he is 2:05:04.480 --> 2:05:06.440 a proto Marcus move, but like it is also in 2:05:06.560 --> 2:05:10.040 large part a reaction to imf in constructural reforms. These 2:05:10.080 --> 2:05:11.960 people all think are good and will like cause long 2:05:12.040 --> 2:05:14.760 term prospority and like a lot of the democratic disitions 2:05:14.760 --> 2:05:17.520 they're talking about, like like, for example, again Pinochet, right, 2:05:17.720 --> 2:05:20.000 like that was like you know, and like obviously the 2:05:20.080 --> 2:05:22.960 protomocracy reformers did more neoliberalism, but like a part of 2:05:23.000 --> 2:05:24.680 the part of the reason like that stuff worked was 2:05:24.720 --> 2:05:29.440 because Pinochet ran the economy into the graduating yeah, right, 2:05:29.560 --> 2:05:32.200 which is what he was sad to do. But yeah, 2:05:32.320 --> 2:05:35.720 but like I want to close it on two things. One, 2:05:36.360 --> 2:05:40.480 I want to read this line right from I'm talking 2:05:40.520 --> 2:05:42.520 about like the advances in their papers. This is again 2:05:42.640 --> 2:05:46.160 from the equitible prize thing. Yea quote in the earlier models. 2:05:46.160 --> 2:05:48.880 The probability that the masses are successful when they stage 2:05:48.880 --> 2:05:52.320 a revolution is always one. But this is a strong 2:05:52.360 --> 2:05:55.960 assumption that does not reflect real world events very well. 2:05:57.080 --> 2:06:01.560 They published a paper about how people make a decision 2:06:01.640 --> 2:06:04.400 to do a revolution. This was peer reviewed in an 2:06:04.400 --> 2:06:07.000 economics journal. It's one of the papers that incited in 2:06:07.080 --> 2:06:09.800 the noble price they gave them when they assumed that 2:06:09.840 --> 2:06:15.040 revolutions always succeed. Yeah, Nobel Prize, And the second paper 2:06:15.080 --> 2:06:19.440 was one they realized, Holy shit, that's not true, mom mouth, 2:06:19.600 --> 2:06:21.680 isn't it. This is the kind of assumption that these 2:06:21.800 --> 2:06:24.840 absolute fucking morons make all of the time, all of 2:06:24.880 --> 2:06:26.160 the funk. This is why they had to bring in 2:06:26.160 --> 2:06:28.320 the institucial columnists in the first place, to bring the 2:06:28.360 --> 2:06:31.240 shit in, right, because like, they're basic models of how 2:06:31.400 --> 2:06:33.560 humans work. Were like every single human like sits out 2:06:33.600 --> 2:06:36.400 and calculates a fucking utility curve figure out where they're 2:06:36.400 --> 2:06:38.240 going to brush their hair in the morning. Was obviously 2:06:38.240 --> 2:06:39.480 not true. That's what I had to bring in game 2:06:39.520 --> 2:06:40.240 theory in the first place. 2:06:40.320 --> 2:06:40.480 Right. 2:06:40.720 --> 2:06:43.960 They make stupid assumptions like this literally all the time. 2:06:44.840 --> 2:06:47.200 And again, this is one of the ones they're making 2:06:47.240 --> 2:06:48.600 in one of the papers that was cited in here 2:06:48.640 --> 2:06:50.400 as the reason they want to know what price in economics. 2:06:50.680 --> 2:06:53.160 Yeah, I want to read this models off Cocktail's paper 2:06:53.360 --> 2:06:56.560 to everyone. Here's a fun little sentence, and event history 2:06:56.600 --> 2:06:59.960 analysis finds it, right, so positively associated with political liberalizing 2:07:00.200 --> 2:07:02.640 in one hundred and three non democracies from nineteen ninety 2:07:02.680 --> 2:07:05.720 to two thousand and four attacks by civilians on police 2:07:05.720 --> 2:07:08.920 stations during the January twenty fifth Egyptian Revolution illustrate one 2:07:08.960 --> 2:07:11.840 way in which un noncollective violence can bring about a 2:07:11.840 --> 2:07:17.680 democratic breakthrough. Incredible, thank you, We love to see it. 2:07:18.160 --> 2:07:22.240 Yeah, we love this. That's a pretty normal thing from like, 2:07:22.280 --> 2:07:23.880 I guess you would call it like the center left 2:07:23.960 --> 2:07:27.000 of like Democrats edition studies stuff. Right, Yeah, it's the 2:07:27.040 --> 2:07:30.280 sociology paper. Yeah, that's like a pretty normal it's like 2:07:30.320 --> 2:07:33.440 a good life, a good paper. This is from one 2:07:33.440 --> 2:07:35.680 of the books written by the people who won the 2:07:35.720 --> 2:07:40.120 Economics Nobel Prize. Quote. Chapter six explains why several European 2:07:40.120 --> 2:07:43.480 countries have managed to build broadly participatory societies capable but 2:07:43.520 --> 2:07:46.840 still shackled states. Our answer focuses on the factor is 2:07:46.880 --> 2:07:49.600 that led much of Europe towards the corridor during the 2:07:49.640 --> 2:07:52.760 early Middle Ages, as Germanic tribes, especially the Franks, came 2:07:52.800 --> 2:07:56.520 to invade lands dominated by the Western Roman Empire. Afterwards collapse, 2:07:56.880 --> 2:07:59.840 we argue, but the marriage of bottom up participatory is 2:07:59.840 --> 2:08:04.280 a tutions and norms of dramatic tribes and the centralizing 2:08:04.320 --> 2:08:07.960 bureaucratic and legal traditions of the Roman Empire forged a 2:08:08.080 --> 2:08:11.280 unique balance of power between the state and society enabling 2:08:11.400 --> 2:08:15.520 the rise of the. 2:08:15.400 --> 2:08:18.080 Oh god, me. 2:08:20.960 --> 2:08:21.680 Is so depressing. 2:08:21.760 --> 2:08:24.480 I spent ten years getting a PhD in history and 2:08:24.520 --> 2:08:26.320 they've just given these people a Nobel Prize. 2:08:26.360 --> 2:08:31.640 But like Jordan Peterson ship, they have discovered. But this 2:08:31.680 --> 2:08:34.520 is the thing, Like these people have discovered the concept 2:08:34.560 --> 2:08:39.080 of history. Yeah, and they've read like four Wikipedia articles 2:08:39.400 --> 2:08:43.320 and they've used those Wikipedia articles they started doing regression analysis. Yeah, 2:08:43.520 --> 2:08:46.839 and this is this is what they want a Nobel prize. Yeah, 2:08:46.880 --> 2:08:51.880 this is fake Nobel prize. Like again, like I've been 2:08:51.880 --> 2:08:54.680 thinking about, like you know, in physics, what you have 2:08:54.760 --> 2:08:57.000 to do to win a Nobel Prize. You have to 2:08:57.120 --> 2:09:01.360 make a prediction about the fundamental nature of the universe 2:09:01.560 --> 2:09:05.040 that can only be tested by building a fucking machine 2:09:05.600 --> 2:09:09.320 that can measure a vibration of gravitational ways, which is 2:09:09.320 --> 2:09:11.880 a It has to be able to measure a ripple 2:09:11.960 --> 2:09:15.120 in the fabric of space time that is smaller than 2:09:15.160 --> 2:09:18.960 the diameter of the fucking nucleus of an atom. That 2:09:19.080 --> 2:09:20.360 is what you have to do to win the Nobel 2:09:20.400 --> 2:09:22.400 Prize in physics. What you have to do to win 2:09:22.440 --> 2:09:31.960 the Nobel Prize in economics is realize that institutions affect prosparity. Jesus, 2:09:33.480 --> 2:09:38.200 I just cannot this has been. This has been the 2:09:38.360 --> 2:09:42.760 ViBe's econdoble Prize episode. I don't know. I hope this 2:09:42.840 --> 2:09:47.440 made your day slightly slightly better, because holy shit, this 2:09:47.520 --> 2:09:49.480 is the fakest prize in the entire world. 2:09:49.840 --> 2:09:52.800 Shout out to the economists like I guess I'm eagerly 2:09:52.840 --> 2:09:55.800 awaiting you discovering some other ship from my one oh 2:09:55.840 --> 2:09:58.880 one class. Feel free to sign up at anytime if 2:09:58.880 --> 2:10:01.280 you want to get a noble fi prize in economics. 2:10:01.320 --> 2:10:03.560 I guess ah. All right, well this has been. It 2:10:03.560 --> 2:10:07.040 could happen here. I will return. 2:10:07.320 --> 2:10:09.800 Yeah, next time we give an economy's surprised for tying 2:10:09.800 --> 2:10:10.360 the issues of. 2:10:10.400 --> 2:10:34.640 Something this is it could happen here today. I'm your host, 2:10:34.840 --> 2:10:39.600 Garrison Davis, and they're sure has been a lot happening 2:10:39.720 --> 2:10:43.920 this past year. I am kind of feeling emotionally exhausted 2:10:44.000 --> 2:10:47.800 and just numb in general. It's a different feeling from 2:10:47.800 --> 2:10:52.520 the political desensitization that my job usually provides me. I'm 2:10:52.680 --> 2:10:57.080 frankly still recovering from attending the DNC, even more so 2:10:57.160 --> 2:11:00.240 than the RNC. At the RNC I knew I was 2:11:00.240 --> 2:11:02.720 going to be walking through the pits of hell, and 2:11:03.240 --> 2:11:08.000 despite the immense evil on display, the side show conspiracy 2:11:08.040 --> 2:11:12.600 theory freak nature of the event made it almost absurdly amusing. 2:11:13.640 --> 2:11:18.920 But the DNC kind of broke me between the infighting 2:11:18.960 --> 2:11:23.360 among Palestine protesters and the insistence from the official organizers 2:11:23.400 --> 2:11:27.120 TM to oppose any course of action that would actually 2:11:27.120 --> 2:11:30.680 disrupt the event or apply pressure to attendees and instead 2:11:30.800 --> 2:11:33.920 just use the Palestine protests to promote their little socialist 2:11:33.920 --> 2:11:38.520 newspapers and political orgs. Meanwhile, inside the actual event, I 2:11:38.600 --> 2:11:41.000 was surrounded by some of the richest and most powerful 2:11:41.000 --> 2:11:44.320 people I had ever been around, and just watching them 2:11:44.440 --> 2:11:48.640 maintain their like kamala Is bracked party atmosphere at all 2:11:48.720 --> 2:11:52.720 costs and purposely blind themselves to the atrocities happening around 2:11:52.720 --> 2:11:59.480 the world, especially Gaza, was a deeply unsettling experience. Like 2:11:59.800 --> 2:12:02.600 they're supposed to be the if not the good guys, 2:12:02.920 --> 2:12:06.800 at least the better guys or the less openly fascist guys, 2:12:07.640 --> 2:12:10.720 and like among the American right wings, unprecedented focus and 2:12:11.080 --> 2:12:14.760 organized attack on trans rights. This was the first d 2:12:14.920 --> 2:12:18.440 n C SINS twenty twelve to not feature a trans speaker, 2:12:18.920 --> 2:12:22.640 and trans people were never directly mentioned during the convention's 2:12:22.720 --> 2:12:27.480 prime time speaking slots. And now with the election ramping 2:12:27.560 --> 2:12:31.440 up and the Southeast still recovering from two devastating hurricanes, 2:12:32.080 --> 2:12:35.280 Israel escalating tensions with Iran, and with the backing of 2:12:35.280 --> 2:12:39.000 the United States continuing strikes in Lebanon and Palestine, I 2:12:39.040 --> 2:12:42.920 am just feeling more lost and discombobulated than I have 2:12:43.000 --> 2:12:43.760 been in years. 2:12:45.080 --> 2:12:46.480 So to cheer. 2:12:46.280 --> 2:12:49.840 Myself up, I decided to go to a Charlie Kirk 2:12:49.960 --> 2:12:55.160 and vivek Ramaswami rally at Georgia State University. Now to 2:12:55.240 --> 2:12:59.160 some that may sound just completely bat shit or perhaps 2:12:59.360 --> 2:13:02.760 some form of bizarre self harm, but look like I've 2:13:02.760 --> 2:13:06.200 been covering far right rallies and writing about these weird 2:13:06.240 --> 2:13:10.760 conservative influencers for years now, it's almost second nature to me. 2:13:11.600 --> 2:13:16.000 Going to these events can feel paradoxically relaxing, even though 2:13:16.000 --> 2:13:19.400 it may trigger some stress. My body just kind of 2:13:19.400 --> 2:13:23.720 subconsciously knows what to do in environments like this. The 2:13:23.880 --> 2:13:28.160 RNC was so easy, it's like an autopilot just takes over, 2:13:28.760 --> 2:13:31.280 and so I thought going to this Turning Point USA 2:13:31.360 --> 2:13:34.760 event might help reset my brain by giving myself a 2:13:34.760 --> 2:13:38.440 simple task that I know I can excel at. But 2:13:38.640 --> 2:13:42.280 before we get into all that, first, for those more 2:13:42.360 --> 2:13:46.440 fortunate than I, here's some background on Charlie Kirk, also 2:13:46.560 --> 2:13:49.600 known as the far right podcaster with the Smallest Face. 2:13:50.200 --> 2:13:54.400 As a teenager, back in twenty twelve, Charles J. Kirk 2:13:54.760 --> 2:13:59.400 co founded in organization for campus conservatives called Turning Point USA, 2:14:00.200 --> 2:14:02.880 and then in twenty nineteen he founded a sister organization 2:14:03.040 --> 2:14:07.240 called Turning Point Action, which focuses on elections and conservative 2:14:07.240 --> 2:14:11.680 political advocacy. Though initially more aligned with the so called 2:14:11.840 --> 2:14:15.880 alt light rather than the alt right, Kirk has slowly 2:14:16.000 --> 2:14:18.400 moved farther and farther to the right during the past 2:14:18.480 --> 2:14:21.920 ten years, and by twenty twenty he embraced election fraud, 2:14:21.960 --> 2:14:26.600 COVID nineteen, and vaccine conspiracy theories. Also during twenty twenty, 2:14:26.760 --> 2:14:30.400 he started his own podcast, The Charlie Kirk Show, which 2:14:30.480 --> 2:14:34.160 is now somehow ranked as the number seven podcast for 2:14:34.320 --> 2:14:36.160 news in Apple Podcasts. 2:14:36.640 --> 2:14:37.600 So that's not good. 2:14:38.880 --> 2:14:42.120 At this point, Charlie has kind of taken the place of, 2:14:42.240 --> 2:14:46.880 if not surpassed, the role that was previously occupied by 2:14:46.920 --> 2:14:50.760 Stephen Crowder before his fall from grace isteming from his 2:14:50.840 --> 2:14:54.120 breakup with Ben Shapiro and the allegations of abusing his 2:14:54.240 --> 2:14:58.920 ex wife. Through the Turning Point Action organization, Kirk is 2:14:59.320 --> 2:15:02.960 more tight with the actual mechanisms of the Republican Party 2:15:03.280 --> 2:15:07.200 then even the Daily Wire is just This past Wednesday, 2:15:07.440 --> 2:15:10.880 Turning Point Action hosted a rally for Trump in Duluth, Georgia, 2:15:10.920 --> 2:15:14.200 just outside of Atlanta. Trump spoke at this event, and 2:15:14.280 --> 2:15:19.680 Tucker Carlson made a very fascist speech advocating to refuse 2:15:19.720 --> 2:15:23.320 the results of the election if Trump loses, and likening 2:15:23.320 --> 2:15:27.280 Trump to a quote unquote daddy figure, needing to punish 2:15:27.320 --> 2:15:31.040 the country for being a quote unquote bad girl the 2:15:31.120 --> 2:15:36.120 past four years. It's a huge indictment against Americans, deeply 2:15:36.280 --> 2:15:37.520 Freudian politics. 2:15:38.680 --> 2:15:39.000 Now. 2:15:39.320 --> 2:15:42.200 The event that I attended on October twenty first was 2:15:42.240 --> 2:15:46.680 a part of Charlie Kirk's You're Being Brainwashed tour, where 2:15:46.840 --> 2:15:50.000 Kirk and friends travel from swing state to swing state 2:15:50.160 --> 2:15:53.680 to debate college students on camera about why Trump is 2:15:53.720 --> 2:15:59.040 the better candidate. Charlie's focus on debating unprepared college students 2:15:59.200 --> 2:16:01.000 shows how he he has kind of picked up the 2:16:01.040 --> 2:16:05.360 baton from Stephen Crowder and his old change My mind videos, 2:16:06.280 --> 2:16:10.360 but this year specifically, Charlie's version of this college debate 2:16:10.680 --> 2:16:14.520 content creation strategy is more in line with this overall 2:16:14.600 --> 2:16:18.640 strategy to inflate Kirk's political influence leading up to the 2:16:18.680 --> 2:16:21.600 election so that he can get more directly involved in 2:16:21.640 --> 2:16:25.280 the GOPS get out the vote campaign in key swing states. 2:16:26.240 --> 2:16:28.280 As a part of this strategy, Kirk has been on 2:16:28.320 --> 2:16:29.960 a bit of a media blitz the past few months 2:16:29.960 --> 2:16:33.160 to promote himself. Some listeners may have seen the viral 2:16:33.240 --> 2:16:37.400 video featuring Charlie Kirk debating twenty five quote unquote woke 2:16:37.560 --> 2:16:42.160 college students for over ninety minutes. This video, from the 2:16:42.200 --> 2:16:46.920 YouTube channel Jubilee, has over twenty million views, and like 2:16:47.400 --> 2:16:51.800 just as an aside, Jubilee is just so deeply evil. 2:16:52.080 --> 2:16:55.879 This company claims to advocate for like empathy and human 2:16:55.920 --> 2:17:00.640 connection while turning life and death political issues into fucking 2:17:00.720 --> 2:17:05.160 game show segments for YouTube ad revenue, often pitting media 2:17:05.200 --> 2:17:10.240 trained conservative activists against just random clueless liberals. I hate 2:17:10.240 --> 2:17:15.720 this company. They are so bad, but I digress now. 2:17:16.000 --> 2:17:18.920 I actually attended a Turning Point USA event on the 2:17:18.959 --> 2:17:22.200 GSU campus last year. It was a smaller event that 2:17:22.280 --> 2:17:26.560 was ostensibly about defending the Cop City training facility in Atlanta. 2:17:27.320 --> 2:17:31.039 Though halfway through the event it just stopped being about 2:17:31.040 --> 2:17:33.560 cop City and it just turned into an ad for 2:17:33.640 --> 2:17:36.959 Turning Point USA and this other political organization started by 2:17:37.000 --> 2:17:41.800 Candice Owens called BLEXIT, which stands for the quote Black 2:17:41.959 --> 2:17:47.240 Exit from the Victimhood mentality unquote. This was one of 2:17:47.280 --> 2:17:51.160 the most racist events I've ever been to. The main speaker, 2:17:51.360 --> 2:17:56.040 in his best metrosexual attire, blamed black people for creating 2:17:56.040 --> 2:17:59.240 situations that result in police murders, said that the real 2:17:59.320 --> 2:18:03.000 problem is that black kids are never taught accountability and 2:18:03.120 --> 2:18:07.240 that in the MLK days, people only ever advocated for 2:18:07.360 --> 2:18:11.560 more police training. He also claimed that rap music is 2:18:11.640 --> 2:18:15.360 causing a spike in violent crime and ranted against jay 2:18:15.480 --> 2:18:18.840 Z and Beyonce and closed by saying that we need 2:18:18.879 --> 2:18:23.680 to support more conservative rappers and singers. It was really bad, 2:18:24.680 --> 2:18:28.080 But on the plus side, I went undercover to this event, 2:18:28.280 --> 2:18:31.720 and when talking with the Turning Point USA officials, I 2:18:31.840 --> 2:18:34.360 convinced them that I was actually a student at a 2:18:34.360 --> 2:18:38.600 different nearby university and I reserve the right to start 2:18:38.680 --> 2:18:43.560 a fake TPUSA chapter in that school, so hopefully that 2:18:43.600 --> 2:18:45.920 will never happen. Since I'm the one who's supposed to 2:18:45.959 --> 2:18:51.240 be doing it. For the Brainwashed Tour event this past Monday, 2:18:51.879 --> 2:18:56.039 I dressed like an unfashionable campus conservative and donned my 2:18:56.360 --> 2:18:59.840 Reagan movie baseball cap acquired at the RNC welcome party, 2:19:00.200 --> 2:19:03.320 and arrived at campus an hour early to scope out 2:19:03.360 --> 2:19:07.120 the terrain. They didn't announce the exact location for the 2:19:07.120 --> 2:19:09.760 event ahead of time, so for about half an hour 2:19:09.879 --> 2:19:12.880 I just walked around to GSU with the fucking Ronald 2:19:12.920 --> 2:19:17.279 Reagan hat, looking for like a TPUSA booth. Now, luckily 2:19:17.320 --> 2:19:20.120 I spotted some people with red mega hats that I 2:19:20.200 --> 2:19:24.359 tailed to the nearby Hurt Park, where it was immediately 2:19:24.360 --> 2:19:26.880 evident that this would be a much bigger event than 2:19:26.920 --> 2:19:30.480 the Copcity one I attended a year prior. In the 2:19:30.480 --> 2:19:33.200 middle of the park was a big table with microphones 2:19:33.240 --> 2:19:36.680 set up for questions and debate, and on either side 2:19:36.720 --> 2:19:41.000 there were booths with turning point stickers, buttons, flyers, a 2:19:41.080 --> 2:19:44.520 pocket constitution, and sign up sheets to get involved in 2:19:44.560 --> 2:19:48.600 their political advocacy programs. I took home a big button 2:19:48.680 --> 2:19:54.959 that read Republicans are Hotter, and I got another what 2:19:55.000 --> 2:19:58.760 I would call a brat style button, but brown instead 2:19:58.760 --> 2:20:03.600 of green. That re D's high period, stop being a 2:20:03.600 --> 2:20:12.320 socialist period. Thanks period. Not good, not good. But I 2:20:12.400 --> 2:20:15.480 watched the crowd grow from like twenty people I would 2:20:15.520 --> 2:20:19.800 say around two hundred. You know, it got kind of fluid, 2:20:19.840 --> 2:20:23.520 but yeah, around two hundred to fifty. Maybe A small 2:20:23.560 --> 2:20:27.039 majority were students or at least young, and appeared to 2:20:27.080 --> 2:20:31.480 be equally made up of liberals and conservatives, with the 2:20:31.520 --> 2:20:34.360 rest of the crowd mostly made up of conservatives from 2:20:34.440 --> 2:20:38.160 all ages who came to campus just to see Charlie Kirk. 2:20:39.000 --> 2:20:43.240 As the event was about to begin, TPUSA staff moved 2:20:43.400 --> 2:20:47.600 all of the older quote unquote non college students out 2:20:47.600 --> 2:20:50.920 of frame of the cameras to make the video seem 2:20:51.320 --> 2:20:56.120 more focused on liberal college students, and after waiting in 2:20:56.200 --> 2:21:00.880 the surprisingly warm October sun for over an hour, Charles J. 2:21:01.080 --> 2:21:05.080 Kirk finally arrived thirty minutes late from the official start time, 2:21:05.680 --> 2:21:09.480 tossing free mega hats wildly into the crowd, one of 2:21:09.520 --> 2:21:12.960 which I am now in possession of. For this leg 2:21:13.000 --> 2:21:15.680 of the tour, Kirk has been accompanied by the twenty 2:21:15.720 --> 2:21:19.600 twenty four Republican presidential candidate with the tallest hair, the 2:21:19.720 --> 2:21:23.440 vek Ramaswami, who, by the way, has also won the 2:21:23.560 --> 2:21:27.280 Cool Zone Media Award for presidential candidate with the most 2:21:27.440 --> 2:21:29.440 Nick Fuentes groyper energy. 2:21:30.680 --> 2:21:32.360 So there you go. 2:21:33.280 --> 2:21:36.680 I can't believe I've seen the vek Ramaswami like four 2:21:36.680 --> 2:21:40.920 different times this year. That doesn't feel good. But do 2:21:40.920 --> 2:21:44.240 you know what does feel good? That's right, these products 2:21:44.240 --> 2:21:58.000 and services that support this podcast. Okay, we are back. 2:21:58.040 --> 2:22:02.320 It's time to finally talk about this fucking rally. So 2:22:02.959 --> 2:22:05.560 I'm not gonna go over like the whole event play 2:22:05.600 --> 2:22:08.600 by play, because there was over two hours of quote 2:22:08.680 --> 2:22:11.760 unquote debating that I have neither the time nor the 2:22:11.840 --> 2:22:15.680 desire to recap, but I will mention some of the 2:22:15.920 --> 2:22:20.600 overarching topics and common lines of questioning. Even as the 2:22:20.680 --> 2:22:24.039 first student took the mic, I knew that this was 2:22:24.320 --> 2:22:27.280 gonna be a rough day. The first person to quote 2:22:27.360 --> 2:22:32.320 unquote debate, Charlie and Vivek, stated that their quote primary 2:22:32.320 --> 2:22:35.640 opposition to Trump is that he's anti American and anti 2:22:35.720 --> 2:22:41.879 patriotic unquote. They said that they believed that Trump fundamentally 2:22:42.040 --> 2:22:47.080 undermines American values, and they specifically invoked Trump's rhetoric online 2:22:47.080 --> 2:22:53.120 about suspending the Constitution and the whole January sixth incident. Look, 2:22:53.360 --> 2:22:55.720 I don't think this is a very compelling line of attack, 2:22:55.920 --> 2:22:58.879 especially in a debate setting. And I just don't believe 2:22:58.920 --> 2:23:02.280 that patriotism is like an inherently good thing. And I 2:23:02.280 --> 2:23:07.680 think Grifters and Conman are pretty darn American. But Vivek 2:23:07.879 --> 2:23:12.120 and Kirk responded by talking about how social media censorship 2:23:12.120 --> 2:23:16.400 in twenty twenty was a much greater act of anti Americanism, 2:23:16.879 --> 2:23:19.400 although later on in the day they defended Elon Musk 2:23:19.400 --> 2:23:21.800 in his running of Twitter, since he's a private citizen 2:23:21.840 --> 2:23:23.520 and should be allowed to do whatever he wants with 2:23:23.600 --> 2:23:27.760 his own platform. This is, of course ironic amidst reporting 2:23:27.760 --> 2:23:29.600 from The New York Times that Musk and the Trump 2:23:29.600 --> 2:23:33.480 team colluded to suppress information damaging to Trump on the platform, 2:23:33.720 --> 2:23:36.800 basically exactly what the right was accusing the old Twitter 2:23:36.959 --> 2:23:40.039 doing the last election. But none of that really matters. 2:23:40.360 --> 2:23:42.920 There's no such thing as hypocrisy. You can never hold 2:23:42.920 --> 2:23:45.520 anyone account to this sort of thing on the right. 2:23:46.200 --> 2:23:49.080 Charlie Kirk then just went on to deny that Trump 2:23:49.120 --> 2:23:52.680 called to suspend the Constitution. Here's a clip he ever has. 2:23:52.920 --> 2:23:55.240 You're misquoting him. But let's just look at what he did, 2:23:55.600 --> 2:23:56.400 not just rhetoric. 2:23:56.480 --> 2:23:59.920 Nice little quick pivot there from Charles. But yes, technical 2:24:00.440 --> 2:24:05.600 Trump didn't say suspend. He actually said terminate, which is 2:24:05.720 --> 2:24:06.440 like worse. 2:24:06.640 --> 2:24:07.200 I don't know. 2:24:08.720 --> 2:24:12.680 In twenty twenty two, Trump posted on truth Social calling 2:24:12.720 --> 2:24:17.199 for the quote unquote termination of all rules, regulations, and articles, 2:24:17.440 --> 2:24:21.960 even those found in the Constitution unquote, in response to 2:24:22.000 --> 2:24:25.120 the twenty twenty election. I don't know how Kirk thinks 2:24:25.160 --> 2:24:29.760 that saying terminate is better than suspend. Of course he doesn't. 2:24:30.200 --> 2:24:34.119 He's just playing this game. It doesn't matter. Kirk went 2:24:34.160 --> 2:24:36.640 on to lie about the nature of January sixth and 2:24:36.680 --> 2:24:41.199 whether Trump literally personally committed the legal act of insurrection, 2:24:41.879 --> 2:24:44.000 eventually saying that even if Trump did, it would be 2:24:44.080 --> 2:24:47.320 thrown out under the new presidential immunity ruling by the 2:24:47.320 --> 2:24:51.959 Supreme Court, and stating that though Trump didn't actually do 2:24:52.040 --> 2:24:56.120 a coup, the Democrats did actually do a coup to 2:24:56.160 --> 2:24:57.760 get Kamala Harris on the ticket. 2:24:58.360 --> 2:24:59.840 Okay, sure, but. 2:25:01.440 --> 2:25:06.720 Now part of Kirk's just flagrant January sixth revisionist history 2:25:07.640 --> 2:25:12.720 was claiming that Ashley Babbitt was suddenly killed with no 2:25:12.879 --> 2:25:17.640 warning as she was retreating from the Capitol and just 2:25:17.879 --> 2:25:18.960 none of that is true. 2:25:19.160 --> 2:25:20.959 That just isn't what happened. 2:25:21.240 --> 2:25:23.160 The only person to die on January sixth is a 2:25:23.160 --> 2:25:25.920 Trump supporter killed by one of Nancy Pelosi's bodyguards. 2:25:26.040 --> 2:25:30.359 Okay, even that part isn't true. Two other Trump supporters 2:25:30.400 --> 2:25:33.440 died of heart attacks, and another died holding a Don't 2:25:33.480 --> 2:25:37.720 tread on Me flag after being trampled by fellow rioters. 2:25:38.280 --> 2:25:42.040 Now a student countered Kirk's claim of Babbitt's innocence by 2:25:42.080 --> 2:25:45.440 confirming that he believes in stands your ground laws that 2:25:45.520 --> 2:25:49.080 if you're breaking into property you can be shot hold on. 2:25:49.200 --> 2:25:51.440 But Ashley Babbitt was unarmed. Isn't the whole kind of 2:25:51.440 --> 2:25:53.840 stick of the American left, like, don't shoot unarmed people. 2:25:53.920 --> 2:25:56.039 If I break into your house, then I was unarmed, 2:25:56.080 --> 2:25:56.800 but I broken I was. 2:25:56.760 --> 2:25:57.600 Breaking into your house? 2:25:57.680 --> 2:25:59.360 Was George Floyd? Was that a rightful death? 2:25:59.520 --> 2:26:04.120 Okay, first of all, incredible deflection, but oh yes, as 2:26:04.160 --> 2:26:08.280 if these two situations are in any way comparable, a 2:26:08.320 --> 2:26:10.520 black man being pinned down and choked to death for 2:26:10.600 --> 2:26:14.440 over nine minutes and a woman leading a mob intent 2:26:14.560 --> 2:26:17.680 on killing US politicians right up to the last line 2:26:17.680 --> 2:26:20.760 of defense protecting set of politicians as they try to 2:26:20.800 --> 2:26:25.120 evacuate the capital. Kirk tried to make this same gross 2:26:25.240 --> 2:26:29.000 George Floyd comparison like an hour later, again to booze 2:26:29.000 --> 2:26:33.240 from the audience. Later in the day, a second student 2:26:33.520 --> 2:26:37.240 hit the Charlie Kirk debate chair debating on whether Trump 2:26:37.320 --> 2:26:41.320 is anti American, and mentioned Trump's recent comments talking about 2:26:41.400 --> 2:26:46.119 a quote unquote enemy within, some enemy inside the United 2:26:46.160 --> 2:26:49.160 States that poses a far bigger threat than foreign enemies. 2:26:49.560 --> 2:26:52.240 The Veck claimed that Trump was referring to people who 2:26:52.360 --> 2:26:55.240 shot at Trump, and Kirk claimed that it was a 2:26:55.280 --> 2:26:56.760 reference to drug cartels. 2:26:57.040 --> 2:26:59.000 So Donald Trump is talking with enemy, then he's talking 2:26:59.000 --> 2:27:00.840 about the cartels that are here that are poisoning our 2:27:00.840 --> 2:27:03.440 streets with drugs, that are bringing illegal guns into the country. 2:27:03.560 --> 2:27:05.680 That is the enemy within. Yet we say Russia is 2:27:05.680 --> 2:27:08.320 an enemy. Russia has never attacked the United States of America. 2:27:08.520 --> 2:27:13.160 Curious Russia comment there, certainly, But like for this enemy 2:27:13.160 --> 2:27:16.800 within thing, we know that's just not true. Trump has 2:27:16.840 --> 2:27:20.920 specifically named multiple Democrats as the enemy within. It's not 2:27:20.959 --> 2:27:25.040 about cartels, it's not about people shooting him. There's just 2:27:25.200 --> 2:27:28.520 non stop lying coming from Kirk and Vek and none 2:27:28.560 --> 2:27:31.480 of the students are like equipped or researched enough to 2:27:31.560 --> 2:27:34.520 call him out on it. Another common topic of debate 2:27:34.680 --> 2:27:38.160 was war and the insistence that Trump didn't start to 2:27:38.200 --> 2:27:43.000 any new wars, unlike Biden and Harris, who have personally 2:27:43.120 --> 2:27:47.279 started wars. I guess with Kirk crediting Biden for starting 2:27:47.320 --> 2:27:51.640 the Russia Ukraine War by financing the Ukrainian defensive, as 2:27:51.640 --> 2:27:54.400 well as roping in Harris by saying that she was 2:27:54.480 --> 2:28:00.000 quote in charge of the Russia Ukrainian War before it happened, unquote, 2:28:00.720 --> 2:28:04.480 which really doesn't make much sense as a sentence. The 2:28:04.560 --> 2:28:08.080 Veck later added that Kamala Harris was personally in charge 2:28:08.080 --> 2:28:12.039 of the withdrawal from Afghanistan, which again just isn't true. 2:28:12.600 --> 2:28:16.200 The Vek is parroting of failed attempt by Republican lawmakers 2:28:16.200 --> 2:28:20.480 from last September to invent some way to blame Harris 2:28:20.480 --> 2:28:24.400 for the Afghanistan withdrawal now that she is the presidential nominee. 2:28:24.440 --> 2:28:27.840 Harris is only mentioned three times in the three thousand, 2:28:28.000 --> 2:28:32.120 two hundred and eighty eight pages of interview transcripts from 2:28:32.120 --> 2:28:36.240 the Foreign Affairs Committee's investigation of the withdrawal, but by 2:28:36.280 --> 2:28:39.200 far Charlie and Vivek's main focus on the topic of 2:28:39.280 --> 2:28:41.959 war is just defending Russia. 2:28:42.200 --> 2:28:43.960 Donald Trump's going to negotiate an end of that war. 2:28:44.000 --> 2:28:44.640 That's reasonable. 2:28:44.760 --> 2:28:47.280 Kamala Harrison and Joe Biden have created that war and 2:28:47.440 --> 2:28:49.080 escalated that over the last three year. 2:28:49.280 --> 2:28:53.400 Trump did not really end any wars in his first term. 2:28:53.760 --> 2:28:56.680 In fact, he increased US troop levels in twenty seventeen 2:28:57.000 --> 2:28:59.360 and raised the number of civilian deaths in Afghanistan from 2:28:59.400 --> 2:29:02.800 drones strikes by three hundred and thirty percent according to 2:29:02.840 --> 2:29:06.440 Brown University. Still, the Veck tried to frame Trump as 2:29:06.480 --> 2:29:10.320 the much more principled anti war candidate, But which candadate? 2:29:10.360 --> 2:29:11.840 Was there a major war in the Middle East? Was 2:29:11.879 --> 2:29:13.560 there a major war in the Middle East or Donald Trump? 2:29:13.720 --> 2:29:16.879 There were multiple arms deal packages to Saudi Arabia for 2:29:16.920 --> 2:29:20.039 the war in Yemen, and the US increased its involvement 2:29:20.080 --> 2:29:22.959 in the series of a war under Trump. But to 2:29:23.040 --> 2:29:26.600 the Vek's earlier point, I really don't see a way 2:29:26.840 --> 2:29:29.400 Trump would end the war in Ukraine. That isn't just 2:29:29.560 --> 2:29:33.240 giving more territory over to Russia. But to Charlie Kirk 2:29:33.680 --> 2:29:36.560 that might not be such a bad thing, since he 2:29:36.640 --> 2:29:38.520 seems to be kind of fond of Russia. 2:29:38.600 --> 2:29:40.600 You know who is the enemy. China is the enemy. 2:29:40.720 --> 2:29:41.439 Russia. 2:29:41.520 --> 2:29:43.960 Well, Russia's not the enemy. Exactly how many of your 2:29:44.000 --> 2:29:45.520 friends have died because of Russians? 2:29:45.720 --> 2:29:47.920 Here's another SoundBite from the Veck. 2:29:48.040 --> 2:29:50.360 Joe Biden and Kyple Harris along with some Republican help. 2:29:50.360 --> 2:29:52.959 I'm gonna admit is sending more money to escalate that 2:29:53.000 --> 2:29:55.200 war that otherwise would have resolve itself if we had 2:29:55.200 --> 2:29:57.600 just negotiated peace back in twenty twenty two. 2:29:57.800 --> 2:30:01.640 Resolves itself. Sounds a lot like Vivek just means that 2:30:01.760 --> 2:30:05.520 Russia would have just seized territory, and like later on, 2:30:06.000 --> 2:30:09.680 Vavek argued that Ukraine just shouldn't be getting any native 2:30:09.720 --> 2:30:10.760 protection at all. 2:30:11.120 --> 2:30:13.440 So the US actually made a commitment back in nineteen 2:30:13.560 --> 2:30:16.680 ninety to say that NATO would expand not one inch 2:30:16.800 --> 2:30:18.000 past East Germany. 2:30:18.240 --> 2:30:22.800 Hmmm, I wonder what may have been different geopolitically in 2:30:22.920 --> 2:30:27.880 nineteen ninety in relation to Russia. Vivek, I wonder if 2:30:28.000 --> 2:30:32.680 anything has happened since nineteen ninety that might affect certain 2:30:32.800 --> 2:30:38.280 Slavic territories. Avek, I wonder, Oh my god. Now, the 2:30:38.440 --> 2:30:42.760 topic discussed probably the most during this event was immigration 2:30:43.520 --> 2:30:47.320 even the liberal college students seem to believe that an 2:30:47.400 --> 2:30:51.680 influx of immigration was the biggest problem currently facing the 2:30:51.800 --> 2:30:56.560 United States. Kirk claimed that Kamala Harris let ten million 2:30:56.720 --> 2:31:01.160 new quote unquote illegal immigrants into the cunt and like no, 2:31:01.920 --> 2:31:04.920 the total population of undocumented immigrants in this country has 2:31:04.959 --> 2:31:08.920 fluctuated between ten to twelve million over the course of 2:31:08.959 --> 2:31:10.280 the past twenty years. 2:31:11.000 --> 2:31:11.800 Though, like JD. 2:31:11.920 --> 2:31:17.760 Vance, Kirk considers most immigrants illegal regardless of their actual status. 2:31:18.120 --> 2:31:21.720 Kirk claimed that the quote unquote nine million immigrants seeking 2:31:21.720 --> 2:31:24.640 asylum that have come into this country under Biden are 2:31:24.720 --> 2:31:30.359 all illegal because they are quote cartel sponsored fraudulent asylum 2:31:30.440 --> 2:31:34.680 claims unquote. Kirk said that these false asylum seekers pay 2:31:34.760 --> 2:31:38.039 cartels ten thousand dollars to be smuggled into the United States. 2:31:38.320 --> 2:31:40.720 They're all illegal because they're we know it's actually, we 2:31:40.720 --> 2:31:42.280 know it to be true. It's not the question nine 2:31:42.720 --> 2:31:46.080 they're frauds. That they're defrauding the American immigration system is 2:31:46.120 --> 2:31:46.600 what they're doing. 2:31:46.920 --> 2:31:51.040 When pressed for proof on this, Kirk just stumbled, and 2:31:51.200 --> 2:31:54.480 Viveck took over and later just plugged his new movie 2:31:54.560 --> 2:31:55.959 about illegal immigration. 2:31:56.160 --> 2:31:58.040 Yes, I mean, so, for example, what is the asylum 2:31:58.160 --> 2:32:02.520 claim if you're coming from from George, Korea. 2:32:02.800 --> 2:32:09.440 Actually, wow, wow, very very convincing stuff happening. Viveck argued 2:32:09.520 --> 2:32:13.040 that most immigrants lie about seeking asylum in order to 2:32:13.240 --> 2:32:16.760 enter the country, and since that's illegal, that makes them 2:32:17.040 --> 2:32:20.840 more likely to commit other crimes once in the United States. 2:32:21.080 --> 2:32:24.040 So right now, our immigration system literally selects for the 2:32:24.080 --> 2:32:26.560 people who are most willing to lie to the US 2:32:26.680 --> 2:32:29.440 government to get in. And that's why it's no surprise 2:32:29.520 --> 2:32:31.680 that the people whose first act of entering the country 2:32:31.760 --> 2:32:34.680 breaks the law often continue to break the law while 2:32:34.720 --> 2:32:35.560 they're already here. 2:32:35.959 --> 2:32:37.560 I don't think that's racist or xenophobic. 2:32:37.600 --> 2:32:39.360 I think it's a fact based on who we're actually 2:32:39.400 --> 2:32:42.199 selecting to come into the country in actuality. 2:32:42.320 --> 2:32:46.600 Immigrants and especially undocumented or quote unquote illegal immigrants, are 2:32:46.840 --> 2:32:50.480 far less likely to commit crimes than US citizens. Most 2:32:50.560 --> 2:32:53.560 research puts it between forty to sixty percent less likely, 2:32:53.920 --> 2:32:56.959 at least according to Stanford, the Texas Department of Public Safety, 2:32:57.320 --> 2:33:02.760 and the Cato Institute, all famously liberal organizations. One thing 2:33:02.920 --> 2:33:06.720 that Kirk kept trying to do is pander his nationalism 2:33:07.040 --> 2:33:10.240 towards the racially diverse audience of Atlanta. 2:33:10.360 --> 2:33:10.840 Students. 2:33:11.400 --> 2:33:14.200 The people in this audience, which is a very diverse audience, 2:33:14.520 --> 2:33:19.000 specifically Black Americans, should be incensed that they're being replaced 2:33:19.120 --> 2:33:23.360 by foreigners. Black Americans are now being put aside so 2:33:23.480 --> 2:33:26.280 that a bunch of foreigners can come, undercut wages and 2:33:26.440 --> 2:33:28.560 fill your city. The black community, which you obviously both 2:33:28.640 --> 2:33:32.480 care a lot about, is actually not being prioritized. Instead, 2:33:32.879 --> 2:33:34.920 people from the Third World. They're coming in and Black 2:33:34.959 --> 2:33:37.640 America is getting put last, which seems to be a 2:33:37.680 --> 2:33:40.280 common theme over the last sixty years when Democrats are 2:33:40.320 --> 2:33:45.240 in control. Well, okay, we'll find that. Thank you guys, 2:33:45.280 --> 2:33:47.560 so much. Thank you, Thank you guys. 2:33:47.959 --> 2:33:52.000 The worst part is that this seems to work. The 2:33:52.120 --> 2:33:57.120 audience seems to resonate with this grossly fascistic framing, seemingly 2:33:57.360 --> 2:34:00.480 unable to recognize what Kirk was doing. And at this 2:34:00.560 --> 2:34:04.320 point I was just like fucking losing it. Vivek said 2:34:04.360 --> 2:34:06.720 that if you don't know English, you shouldn't be allowed 2:34:06.720 --> 2:34:08.840 in the United States, and like no one cared, no 2:34:08.920 --> 2:34:12.119 one pushed back on that. A pro Kamala person repeated 2:34:12.360 --> 2:34:16.120 false migrant crime wave rhetoric in her question about the 2:34:16.240 --> 2:34:20.640 Venezuelan refugee crisis. That student said that three hundred thousand 2:34:20.720 --> 2:34:23.400 Venezuelan refugees came to the United States in twenty twenty three, 2:34:23.959 --> 2:34:28.200 and Kirk then claimed that three million more would arrive 2:34:28.360 --> 2:34:32.760 if Kamala is elected, along with twenty million more immigrants. 2:34:33.240 --> 2:34:38.200 Kirk promised that if Trump's elected, any immigrant, whether legal, undocumented, 2:34:38.480 --> 2:34:41.440 or a refugee, just any immigrant who commits a crime 2:34:41.560 --> 2:34:46.360 like a dui will be immediately deported. And unfortunately, when 2:34:46.520 --> 2:34:50.480 pressed to defend or even just openly express their own 2:34:50.680 --> 2:34:54.400 personal views on whatever the topic of debate was, multiple 2:34:54.440 --> 2:34:58.160 students just like completely backed down, saying that they would 2:34:58.240 --> 2:35:02.560 rather quote unquote stay out of the political realm or 2:35:02.680 --> 2:35:03.840 in another instance. 2:35:04.800 --> 2:35:07.000 Politically charge you fair enough, what are you doing. 2:35:07.600 --> 2:35:10.280 You're trying to debate about access to abortion or if 2:35:10.400 --> 2:35:12.960 all immigrants should be rounded up and deported, but you 2:35:13.000 --> 2:35:15.400 don't want to get quote unquote too political. 2:35:16.000 --> 2:35:17.520 What are you talking about? 2:35:17.920 --> 2:35:21.160 I'm sorry you couldn't get a fast dunk on Charlie Kirk, 2:35:21.440 --> 2:35:26.840 but come on. But perhaps the most disheartening moment was 2:35:26.879 --> 2:35:29.960 when Charlie Kirk was challenged on his opposition to the 2:35:30.120 --> 2:35:34.120 Civil Rights Act. Someone asked why Charlie thinks that the 2:35:34.160 --> 2:35:37.960 Civil Rights Act was a mistake. Kirk started by saying 2:35:38.000 --> 2:35:41.000 that even if some of the original intent was good, 2:35:41.720 --> 2:35:45.840 it's now being used for bad things, like allowing men 2:35:46.120 --> 2:35:49.920 in women's locker rooms, to the complete shock of the questionnaire, 2:35:50.840 --> 2:35:53.520 Kirk and Viveki then went on to explain why we 2:35:53.600 --> 2:35:55.640 should repeal the Civil Rights Act. 2:35:55.840 --> 2:35:59.040 The fanfare that the Civil Rights Actor is met with. 2:35:59.480 --> 2:36:02.320 It's almost like the new Constitution. We talk about the 2:36:02.360 --> 2:36:05.000 Civil Rights Act more than the Constitution. Is it is 2:36:05.160 --> 2:36:08.160 cited more than the Constitution. We almost had a new 2:36:08.280 --> 2:36:11.560 American founding in the nineteen sixties with the Civil Rights Act. 2:36:11.760 --> 2:36:14.480 So let me share a couple of couple hard facts 2:36:14.520 --> 2:36:17.720 with you, which is that turns out that you're much 2:36:17.760 --> 2:36:19.640 more likely to end up in prison, you're much more 2:36:19.760 --> 2:36:21.680 likely to end up in poverty, you're much more likely 2:36:21.800 --> 2:36:24.000 not to graduate from high school if you grow up 2:36:24.040 --> 2:36:26.400 in a single parent household versus the dual parent household. 2:36:27.320 --> 2:36:30.640 Today you're talking about upwards of sixty percent of black 2:36:30.720 --> 2:36:33.320 kids born into single parent households rather than dual parent 2:36:33.560 --> 2:36:35.840 What number do you think that was in the nineteen fifties, 2:36:35.920 --> 2:36:40.360 before the Great Society, Probably it was even less twenty 2:36:40.360 --> 2:36:43.720 percent twenty percent back then. So then we look at 2:36:43.760 --> 2:36:46.080 what the results have been of this entire agenda. Put 2:36:46.080 --> 2:36:49.760 the Civil Rights Act, put the LBJ great society. Black 2:36:49.800 --> 2:36:53.680 Americans are worse off today even economically in terms of 2:36:53.720 --> 2:36:56.400 mobility than they were back then, in the name of 2:36:56.520 --> 2:36:59.320 laws that were passed to supposedly advance black interests. 2:36:59.400 --> 2:37:01.960 Oh god, do you know what that can actually be 2:37:02.040 --> 2:37:06.040 attributed to. It's the massive increase in policing and the 2:37:06.160 --> 2:37:10.320 carcinal justice system that was specifically intensified as a conservative 2:37:10.360 --> 2:37:14.240 reaction to black people gaining more civil rights in society. 2:37:14.520 --> 2:37:16.840 The Civil Rights Act has nine different titles in it, 2:37:17.280 --> 2:37:20.720 and you have this this leviathan that was created, and 2:37:21.120 --> 2:37:23.960 something that most Black Americans dunt support is men in 2:37:24.040 --> 2:37:28.360 female sports. Would you agree men playing in female sports? 2:37:28.360 --> 2:37:31.160 I have no, Yeah, I know, no, no for sure, right, 2:37:31.440 --> 2:37:33.400 but believe it or not, the Civil Rights Act is 2:37:33.480 --> 2:37:36.560 now being used to keep men playing in women's sports. 2:37:37.400 --> 2:37:40.000 So the Civil Rights Act was used to help Black 2:37:40.080 --> 2:37:43.480 America originally totally get that, but now the way it 2:37:43.600 --> 2:37:47.640 was written is that any claim of identification, so someone 2:37:47.680 --> 2:37:50.120 says I'm a woman, therefore I can compete in your 2:37:50.200 --> 2:37:52.600 volleyball team. They come in with a civil rights claim, 2:37:53.080 --> 2:37:54.600 and so what we're saying is no, no, no, it 2:37:54.640 --> 2:37:58.920 should be specified to racial, not gender all that other stuff. 2:37:58.959 --> 2:38:00.480 And there were all these other privilegis as well. 2:38:01.200 --> 2:38:05.120 How sad is it that this kid was convinced that 2:38:05.280 --> 2:38:09.920 the fucking Civil Rights Act is bad through transphobia. It's 2:38:10.040 --> 2:38:13.240 so fucking predatory what Kirk is doing here. This was 2:38:13.280 --> 2:38:16.360 so fucking gross to watch in person. As the day 2:38:16.440 --> 2:38:19.279 went on, things just started to get more and more kookie. 2:38:19.800 --> 2:38:24.680 A whole batch of like libertarian Austrian trained economists went 2:38:24.840 --> 2:38:28.320 back and forth with Charles and Viveka on tariffs, free markets, 2:38:28.720 --> 2:38:32.440 and the validity of the economic philosophy of Frederick Hayek. 2:38:34.840 --> 2:38:37.680 This fucking dude with a little mustache, who ostensibly got 2:38:37.760 --> 2:38:41.040 up to debate Kirk on abortion said that quote, I 2:38:41.200 --> 2:38:45.720 think my generation has started to abuse the option of abortion. Unquote, 2:38:46.160 --> 2:38:48.080 like why the fuck are you up there debating him? 2:38:48.120 --> 2:38:52.959 Then Jesus Christ and then what I would call generously 2:38:53.680 --> 2:38:58.400 a himbo in a white dude's for Harris shirt said 2:38:58.440 --> 2:39:02.480 that Kamala's greatest to pumplishment is being an idol. After 2:39:02.720 --> 2:39:07.680 debating Kirk about FEMA money being spent on illegal immigrants. Meanwhile, 2:39:07.959 --> 2:39:12.520 Kirk just continued to spew COVID nineteen conspiracy theories to 2:39:12.879 --> 2:39:14.200 very little pushback. 2:39:14.360 --> 2:39:16.320 They were wrong about everything. They were wrong about six 2:39:16.360 --> 2:39:18.120 feet to solder spread. They were wrong about the vaccine 2:39:18.160 --> 2:39:18.879 safe and effective. 2:39:19.000 --> 2:39:20.520 They were hey, they we were wrong about whether the 2:39:20.640 --> 2:39:21.600 Arthur revolves around the sun. 2:39:21.920 --> 2:39:23.080 What are you talking about? 2:39:23.160 --> 2:39:23.800 Oh my god. 2:39:24.640 --> 2:39:27.760 One student just got so fed up with Kirk's endless 2:39:28.040 --> 2:39:31.560 rambling about topics unrelated to their question and decided to 2:39:31.680 --> 2:39:34.840 walk away, which then, of course, Kirk claimed as a 2:39:34.920 --> 2:39:36.000 rhetorical victory. 2:39:36.320 --> 2:39:39.760 How to biden laptop misinformation? Where did the virus come from? Biolabs? 2:39:40.800 --> 2:39:44.080 It's exactly how fine? That's okay, go to your fics class. 2:39:46.680 --> 2:39:50.560 I was losing it and frankly just shocked at how 2:39:50.720 --> 2:39:54.600 little pushback Charles and Vivek were receiving for what I 2:39:54.720 --> 2:39:59.320 saw is very clear lies and manipulative debate tactics. The 2:39:59.400 --> 2:40:02.360 majority of some people clearly did not think too hard 2:40:02.400 --> 2:40:04.640 about the question they were going to ask, or let 2:40:04.680 --> 2:40:09.200 alone research the topic of debate beforehand. I saw people 2:40:09.400 --> 2:40:14.000 in line to ask a question using chat GPT to 2:40:14.200 --> 2:40:17.840 generate questions to ask using a prompt about how to 2:40:18.080 --> 2:40:22.360 debate Charlie Kirk at a Turning Point USA event, like 2:40:22.600 --> 2:40:27.560 what the fuck is going on now? I fundamentally refuse 2:40:27.879 --> 2:40:31.520 to participate in quote unquote debates like this for reasons 2:40:31.560 --> 2:40:34.240 that I will soon get into. So I just started 2:40:34.400 --> 2:40:37.440 taking notes of all the things Charlie was lying about, 2:40:38.480 --> 2:40:40.880 and I was right at the very front of the crowd. 2:40:41.200 --> 2:40:45.760 So whenever TPUSA publishes the video Charlie Kirk destroying silly 2:40:45.840 --> 2:40:49.240 liberal college students, you should be able to see me 2:40:49.400 --> 2:40:53.000 pretty clearly in the background in my fucking Ronald reag 2:40:53.040 --> 2:40:57.120 at a hat, just furiously scribbling down notes. Though I 2:40:57.160 --> 2:40:59.720 would recommend watching with an ad blocker not to give 2:40:59.800 --> 2:41:03.880 Kirk extra money. The whole event was a pretty pathetic affair. 2:41:04.600 --> 2:41:08.640 By my count, there were only eight liberal leaning challengers 2:41:08.640 --> 2:41:14.720 who questioned Kirk compared to thirteen conservative leaning questionnaires who 2:41:14.920 --> 2:41:18.360 entered a friendly discussion with Kirk. Out of all the 2:41:18.480 --> 2:41:22.120 liberal debaters, too backed down because they didn't want to 2:41:22.160 --> 2:41:26.120 get too political, and three others appeared to be at 2:41:26.200 --> 2:41:31.040 least somewhat swayed by Kirk and vivek now like I 2:41:31.240 --> 2:41:35.360 can't entirely blame these students right like, this setting is 2:41:35.480 --> 2:41:38.560 not a real debate. Kirk holds all of the power. 2:41:38.680 --> 2:41:40.920 He does this for a living, and he fucking brought 2:41:41.000 --> 2:41:43.640 a friend with him to help. It's two of them 2:41:43.760 --> 2:41:46.800 versus one. It's Kirk and Vivek. There's a reason he 2:41:46.920 --> 2:41:51.960 prefers debating college students rather than working professionals. Most students 2:41:52.040 --> 2:41:55.720 are not prepared to effectively counter Kirk's claims and don't 2:41:55.760 --> 2:41:58.480 have enough general knowledge on current events to call him 2:41:58.520 --> 2:42:02.000 out on every one of his many lies. And even 2:42:02.040 --> 2:42:04.440 if they do catch him on something, Kirk will try 2:42:04.480 --> 2:42:08.360 to project authority to sway the uneducated audience into believing 2:42:08.400 --> 2:42:12.760 that he is correct. Just because teens are chronically online 2:42:13.240 --> 2:42:16.600 doesn't mean that they have better media literacy, critical thinking, 2:42:17.120 --> 2:42:20.840 or know how to determine the validity of information. A 2:42:20.920 --> 2:42:23.960 twenty twenty four survey by News Literacy America found that 2:42:24.080 --> 2:42:27.280 only fifty percent of teens could identify that in article 2:42:27.360 --> 2:42:30.680 labeled as branded content on a news site was in 2:42:30.840 --> 2:42:35.000 fact an advertisement. Barely over half of teens could accurately 2:42:35.080 --> 2:42:38.120 identify an op ed with the word commentary in the 2:42:38.200 --> 2:42:42.280 headline as an opinion piece, forty four percent claimed that 2:42:42.440 --> 2:42:45.720 a company's own press release was more credible than an 2:42:45.760 --> 2:42:49.320 independent news report on the same subject, and thirty four 2:42:49.360 --> 2:42:53.920 percent of teens incorrectly labeled a random picture of damaged 2:42:53.959 --> 2:42:58.360 traffic lights as quote unquote strong evidence supporting a viral 2:42:58.440 --> 2:43:02.800 false claim that hot July temperatures had melted traffic lights. 2:43:03.560 --> 2:43:07.360 These teens surveyed said that local TV news and TikTok 2:43:07.720 --> 2:43:11.600 were the most trustworthy sources of information, and thirty five 2:43:11.600 --> 2:43:15.440 percent of teens said that professional journalists are more biased 2:43:15.560 --> 2:43:19.760 than social media content creators. Meanwhile, forty five percent said 2:43:19.760 --> 2:43:23.920 that journalists are just as biased as these TikTok influencers. 2:43:25.000 --> 2:43:27.560 Let's do a test right now, try to see if 2:43:27.640 --> 2:43:43.360 you can determine that these following clips are in fact advertisements. Okay, 2:43:43.640 --> 2:43:47.720 we are back now. This was technically my first time 2:43:47.959 --> 2:43:52.760 seeing this format of conservative YouTube debate in person. The 2:43:52.879 --> 2:43:56.800 videos that got published online later get heavily edited down, 2:43:57.360 --> 2:43:59.680 and while I was going at it in my notepad, 2:44:00.120 --> 2:44:03.600 I started to recognize the repeating patterns that Kirk and 2:44:03.680 --> 2:44:08.600 Vivek employed to gain dominance in almost every single debate matchup. 2:44:09.440 --> 2:44:10.920 So now I'm going to talk about some of these 2:44:11.000 --> 2:44:15.800 common tactics used by Kirk. When Kirk or Vivek wants 2:44:15.879 --> 2:44:18.320 to end a particular line of questioning or move on 2:44:18.400 --> 2:44:21.960 to the next person, they'll just restate their own opinions 2:44:22.120 --> 2:44:26.240 as fact and then end that debate, leaving the impression 2:44:26.360 --> 2:44:30.080 that they won. They can just stop whenever they feel 2:44:30.120 --> 2:44:33.360 like they have made the final point that gives them victory. 2:44:34.080 --> 2:44:34.720 Here's Vivek. 2:44:34.920 --> 2:44:37.800 The number one human attribute that our legal immigration system 2:44:37.840 --> 2:44:40.480 selects for isn't who's smart. Isn't who's going to work hard, 2:44:40.760 --> 2:44:42.640 isn't who loves the country. It's are you willing to 2:44:42.720 --> 2:44:44.680 lie to the US government or not. If you are, 2:44:44.879 --> 2:44:45.200 you get in. 2:44:45.440 --> 2:44:46.800 If not, you don't. That's the way it works. 2:44:46.840 --> 2:44:47.440 Thank you so much. 2:44:47.600 --> 2:44:47.840 Thank you. 2:44:48.240 --> 2:44:50.080 And here's another example from Kirk. 2:44:50.400 --> 2:44:53.600 Black Americans are treated far worse than illegals in this country, 2:44:53.959 --> 2:44:57.160 and we have violated our social contract to our own citizens. 2:44:57.400 --> 2:44:58.959 And I just want you to think about that, okay. 2:44:59.120 --> 2:45:01.520 Is that if you into America, you get a flight 2:45:01.600 --> 2:45:03.520 to the country the city of your choosing, You get 2:45:03.600 --> 2:45:07.240 taxpayer funded luxury hotels, you get a taxpayer funded phone, 2:45:07.480 --> 2:45:11.280 taxpayer funded food stamps, whereas many Americans are struggling to 2:45:11.280 --> 2:45:13.320 even make ends meet, So thank you so much for coming. 2:45:13.400 --> 2:45:15.720 Yeah, what a convenient way to say a bunch of 2:45:15.760 --> 2:45:19.480 bullshit without having to back any of it enough. Now, 2:45:19.600 --> 2:45:22.800 of of course, welfare programs like food stamps and even 2:45:22.840 --> 2:45:25.920 assistants to get access to smartphones, since they basically are 2:45:25.959 --> 2:45:29.600 now a requirement of everyday life, those programs do exist, right, 2:45:29.760 --> 2:45:34.200 Those are important programs. But those free flights to any city, 2:45:34.959 --> 2:45:38.240 that's actually a reference to New York City's reticketing program, 2:45:38.320 --> 2:45:41.200 which offers one way bus or plane tickets out of 2:45:41.280 --> 2:45:44.880 the city. This program was actually started because the governor 2:45:44.920 --> 2:45:48.280 of Texas sent forty thousand immigrants to New York against 2:45:48.360 --> 2:45:52.840 their will. And those quote unquote luxury hotels are actually 2:45:52.959 --> 2:45:56.200 a small part of an emergency housing program that utilizes 2:45:56.480 --> 2:46:00.680 some converted hotels as well as airport motels and even 2:46:00.959 --> 2:46:05.520 office buildings as temporary shelter for immigrants. But I'm sure 2:46:05.720 --> 2:46:08.200 Kirk would rather these people just be homeless living on 2:46:08.320 --> 2:46:10.400 the street. I'm sure he wouldn't find ways to complain 2:46:10.440 --> 2:46:14.520 about that too. A very common Kirk tactic to avoid 2:46:14.600 --> 2:46:17.760 answering a question is just to simply flip it around 2:46:18.040 --> 2:46:22.000 and ask the students a different question that might eventually 2:46:22.240 --> 2:46:26.040 be related to the student's original question, but not necessarily. 2:46:26.400 --> 2:46:28.280 Let me ask you just one more question. Can men 2:46:28.320 --> 2:46:28.760 give birth? 2:46:29.400 --> 2:46:30.240 Can men give birth? 2:46:30.400 --> 2:46:30.640 Yeah? 2:46:31.480 --> 2:46:34.120 If they're transgender? Q? 2:46:34.440 --> 2:46:38.080 The audience's shocked response. These people probably don't even know 2:46:38.120 --> 2:46:40.800 if this refers to a transgender woman or a transgender man. 2:46:41.400 --> 2:46:41.720 Whatever. 2:46:42.400 --> 2:46:45.400 For another example, here's how Levek responded to a question 2:46:45.680 --> 2:46:47.320 about voter fraud allegations. 2:46:47.520 --> 2:46:49.480 Do you think dal Trump committed a coup against the 2:46:49.520 --> 2:46:50.080 US government? 2:46:50.240 --> 2:46:52.680 This was part of Kirk's response to a question about 2:46:52.840 --> 2:46:54.000 US aid to Israel. 2:46:54.200 --> 2:46:56.560 What is your strong opinion about the civil war happening 2:46:56.600 --> 2:46:57.959 in the Central African Republic. 2:46:58.120 --> 2:47:00.880 For another example, a student asked Kirk what should be 2:47:00.959 --> 2:47:04.880 done about hate crimes against Venezuelan immigrants in cities like Chicago? 2:47:05.120 --> 2:47:05.560 Chicago? 2:47:05.600 --> 2:47:06.360 I think that we should do. 2:47:07.080 --> 2:47:08.680 I have a question, so what part of Chicago from? 2:47:08.920 --> 2:47:13.160 So these are all just classic red herricks. Here's another. 2:47:13.560 --> 2:47:15.720 Do you admit that the Hamas tried to commit genocide 2:47:15.720 --> 2:47:16.400 on October seven? 2:47:16.720 --> 2:47:20.840 Also simply not what a genocide is. Now, Sometimes students 2:47:20.879 --> 2:47:24.000 can catch what Kirk is doing with red herrings and deflections, 2:47:24.560 --> 2:47:27.360 but even when drilled down on the original line of questioning, 2:47:27.720 --> 2:47:31.240 Kirk will try hard to pivot away whenever the momentum 2:47:31.480 --> 2:47:32.959 is not going in his favor. 2:47:33.160 --> 2:47:37.240 You guys are super focused on technical things that we 2:47:37.280 --> 2:47:39.160 could talk about forever. Let me just ask a question. 2:47:40.160 --> 2:47:43.200 I asked you, what is Kamala Harris's greatest accomplishment? Can 2:47:43.280 --> 2:47:44.440 you tell me what that would be? 2:47:44.800 --> 2:47:49.080 Perhaps the most common tactic Charlie Kirk employes to maintain 2:47:49.280 --> 2:47:53.640 control over the interaction is instead of just stating his opinion, 2:47:54.160 --> 2:47:57.080 Kirk will throw a question back to his opponent with 2:47:57.200 --> 2:48:00.160 the intent of getting them to say something that's in 2:48:00.280 --> 2:48:05.640 support of Kirk's own argument. Alternatively, Kirk will ask a 2:48:05.720 --> 2:48:10.359 question that the student probably doesn't know, like some specific 2:48:10.480 --> 2:48:14.040 stat but something that Kirk already has a prepared answer for, 2:48:14.640 --> 2:48:17.720 so that he can throw off his opponent, make them 2:48:17.879 --> 2:48:22.040 question their own ability to debate, and make himself seem smarter. 2:48:22.800 --> 2:48:24.240 Here's a short compilation. 2:48:24.640 --> 2:48:28.520 If there was a policy that made markets more free 2:48:28.879 --> 2:48:31.400 but hurt your country, would you support it? Do you 2:48:31.520 --> 2:48:34.760 believe that FDR was right and partnering with Joseph Stalin 2:48:34.840 --> 2:48:35.480 to defeat Hitler? 2:48:35.720 --> 2:48:35.879 Yeah? 2:48:35.920 --> 2:48:37.760 So I guess two questions with tariff's how do you 2:48:37.800 --> 2:48:40.120 avoid a tariff's? Ask another moral question, then, is it 2:48:40.160 --> 2:48:43.360 ever okay to do something evil after an l under abortion? 2:48:43.480 --> 2:48:45.680 Do you carve out a new morality? Is there like 2:48:45.760 --> 2:48:48.160 a different kind of morality that we apply only to abortion? 2:48:48.520 --> 2:48:49.920 At what point does it get human rights? 2:48:50.040 --> 2:48:51.000 Let me ask you just a question. 2:48:51.440 --> 2:48:54.440 Do you know which nation is the biggest supplier of 2:48:54.520 --> 2:48:55.720 the US military today? 2:48:55.760 --> 2:48:56.560 You could probably guess it. 2:48:56.680 --> 2:48:58.680 Is your phone, paid for by US taxpayers. Let me 2:48:58.720 --> 2:49:00.840 ask you, did you have a big this summer in 2:49:00.879 --> 2:49:03.440 a luxury hotel paid for by taxpayers? Ten people are 2:49:03.520 --> 2:49:06.240 murdered in Chicago. Out of those ten, how many of 2:49:06.280 --> 2:49:08.080 those cases will be solved on average? 2:49:08.080 --> 2:49:08.480 Do you think? 2:49:08.600 --> 2:49:11.920 Okay? So you said wanted to suspend the Constitution? Did 2:49:12.000 --> 2:49:13.360 he do that when he was president? 2:49:13.720 --> 2:49:17.160 His argumentative style looks pretty goofy when it's all broken 2:49:17.280 --> 2:49:20.720 down into its respective parts. Now to circle back to 2:49:20.800 --> 2:49:24.240 my stance of just never engaging with these bad faith 2:49:24.480 --> 2:49:28.680 debate spectacles. Lastly, I'll show you what happens when you 2:49:28.760 --> 2:49:33.040 quote unquote do well against someone like Charlie Kirk. I 2:49:33.120 --> 2:49:35.760 think the only time Kirk was really thrown off was 2:49:35.840 --> 2:49:38.560 during one of the very last matchups, with a student 2:49:38.720 --> 2:49:42.600 asking about Kirk's support of military aid to Israel despite 2:49:42.760 --> 2:49:45.480 his alleged anti war stance and his call for the 2:49:45.600 --> 2:49:49.040 US to pause all foreign aid until the southern border 2:49:49.200 --> 2:49:54.120 is secured. Like usual, Kirk first tried to deflect by 2:49:54.200 --> 2:49:57.440 using red herrings and turn questions back on the student. 2:49:57.800 --> 2:49:59.680 Let me ask you this a first principal question. Do 2:49:59.680 --> 2:50:01.800 you think the Jewish people have a moral rights to 2:50:01.800 --> 2:50:03.400 their religions? 2:50:03.440 --> 2:50:03.760 Do not have? 2:50:06.000 --> 2:50:09.880 Kirk then failed to accuse the student of anti Semitism. 2:50:10.560 --> 2:50:12.840 Kirk then tried to trick the student into saying that 2:50:12.959 --> 2:50:17.760 Hamas is more morally good than Israel, But the student 2:50:17.879 --> 2:50:20.240 saw what Kirk was trying to do with his bizarre 2:50:20.480 --> 2:50:21.480 moralistic framing. 2:50:21.840 --> 2:50:24.880 Do you think that Israel as it's currently constituted is 2:50:25.000 --> 2:50:26.800 morally equivalent with Hamas? 2:50:26.959 --> 2:50:31.600 The student quite wisely did not answer Kirk's precariously worded 2:50:31.680 --> 2:50:35.720 yes or no question and instead reframed the question in 2:50:35.840 --> 2:50:39.640 their own words and only then stated their opinion that 2:50:39.800 --> 2:50:44.760 both Hamas and the IDs actions can be constituted as evil. 2:50:45.560 --> 2:50:47.519 Still, Kirk wouldn't relent. 2:50:47.600 --> 2:50:49.960 So which one is better? Which one is good is better. 2:50:50.360 --> 2:50:54.440 His nonsensical framing was once again rejected, but then Kirk 2:50:54.520 --> 2:50:58.560 accused the student of being propagandized and then asked if 2:50:58.600 --> 2:51:02.039 they had personally been to Israel to assess the situation. 2:51:02.720 --> 2:51:04.440 And this is when everything fell apart. 2:51:05.040 --> 2:51:06.000 Let me tell you this that you know that. 2:51:06.000 --> 2:51:10.400 There's Arab serving in the Kannesset, you know that, and 2:51:10.400 --> 2:51:12.160 there why you're a point of Jews saying I don't 2:51:12.200 --> 2:51:14.279 like Jews because Israel absolutely. 2:51:14.160 --> 2:51:15.440 Saying I'm just gonna I'm gonna go back to this 2:51:15.480 --> 2:51:17.520 because I think it's so interesting though, which is that 2:51:17.640 --> 2:51:19.320 I believe that the Jewish people do have a rights 2:51:19.320 --> 2:51:20.199 their ancestral body. 2:51:20.440 --> 2:51:22.160 Well, first of all, that you believe that they should 2:51:22.160 --> 2:51:24.200 be leveling buildings because that's their ancestral home. 2:51:24.320 --> 2:51:26.400 I'm not I'm not defending every decision they made, but 2:51:26.520 --> 2:51:29.240 that's exactly what they're doing. Interrupt every you're interrupting. I'm 2:51:29.240 --> 2:51:31.039 gonna ask for our next question because you're not arguing. 2:51:31.040 --> 2:51:31.840 The more questions. 2:51:32.440 --> 2:51:35.000 Not much to debate, because I believe that Israel should 2:51:35.000 --> 2:51:36.920 exist in its current form, you do not, thank you 2:51:37.000 --> 2:51:44.200 very much. Okay, last couple the moral confusion on the 2:51:44.280 --> 2:51:46.440 Israel topic. Is it's it's hard to clear up in 2:51:46.480 --> 2:51:46.960 a vendy like this. 2:51:47.240 --> 2:51:51.320 Again, like these aren't real debates. If the conversation goes 2:51:51.520 --> 2:51:54.200 any way other than how Kirk wants it to go, 2:51:54.920 --> 2:51:58.000 he has complete control of the environment and can move 2:51:58.080 --> 2:52:02.520 on to a more desirable apent because, like, beyond convincing 2:52:02.640 --> 2:52:05.119 any gullible people that might happen to be in the crowd, 2:52:05.840 --> 2:52:08.680 the real reason Kirk does events like this is to 2:52:08.760 --> 2:52:09.520 make content. 2:52:10.240 --> 2:52:11.320 It's YouTube debate. 2:52:12.000 --> 2:52:15.720 These debate videos rack up thousands and sometimes millions of 2:52:15.800 --> 2:52:20.040 views on YouTube and TikTok, and every single person that 2:52:20.120 --> 2:52:24.000 participates as if these are real debates is directly helping 2:52:24.120 --> 2:52:28.840 Charlie Kirk make money and grow his brand. This TPUSA 2:52:29.160 --> 2:52:33.680 Brainwash Tour will continue into November, and I'm sure Charlie 2:52:33.720 --> 2:52:36.480 Kirk will keep doing events like this in the years 2:52:36.560 --> 2:52:41.080 to come, regardless of who wins the election. So what's 2:52:41.120 --> 2:52:45.040 the options to counter something like this? I'm of three minds. 2:52:45.840 --> 2:52:49.160 My default response to stuff like this is usually just 2:52:49.240 --> 2:52:52.840 to ignore. Don't give these attention hounds what they're looking for, 2:52:53.000 --> 2:52:56.039 don't try to debate, don't try to own Charlie Kirk 2:52:56.160 --> 2:53:00.480 with facts and logic, there's no real benefit from engaging 2:53:00.560 --> 2:53:04.560 with him and his ilk on their own terms, but 2:53:05.120 --> 2:53:08.240 there will always be at least a few college students 2:53:08.280 --> 2:53:10.480 who think they can get one up on Charlie Kirk. 2:53:11.200 --> 2:53:15.440 So since these events are gonna continue to happen even 2:53:15.480 --> 2:53:20.120 if my friends and I withhold our participation, the second 2:53:20.160 --> 2:53:24.120 option is just to simply confuse. This is what I 2:53:24.240 --> 2:53:29.080 call the skibbity Biden strategy, one which I deployed against 2:53:29.200 --> 2:53:32.240 the my pillow guy Mike Lindell in front of the 2:53:32.400 --> 2:53:34.760 Israeli Consulate as he tried to suck up as much 2:53:34.760 --> 2:53:36.959 attention as possible during the DNC. 2:53:37.600 --> 2:53:41.720 They might come work. Skibbity Biden, skibbity Biden, give me 2:53:41.800 --> 2:53:46.640 buy one. This was probably my favorite moment of the DNC. 2:53:47.560 --> 2:53:51.480 This strategy of complete confusion doesn't just deny the subject 2:53:51.560 --> 2:53:53.960 what they want. If you're the my pillow guy attention 2:53:54.080 --> 2:53:56.840 from reporters or, in the case of Charlie Kirk, an 2:53:57.000 --> 2:54:00.280 unfair debate against a non media trained college friend Shuman, 2:54:00.959 --> 2:54:04.920 but the skibbity Biden strategy also eats up their time, 2:54:05.520 --> 2:54:08.560 prohibiting others from being able to engage on the terms 2:54:08.600 --> 2:54:12.880 decided upon by Turning Point USA, the more time you 2:54:13.160 --> 2:54:18.720 spend spewing your near unintelligible gibberish about how Warhammer connects 2:54:18.760 --> 2:54:22.320 to US foreign policy or explaining your made up conspiracy 2:54:22.360 --> 2:54:25.760 theory about how the Hawktua girl is a CIA asset. 2:54:26.600 --> 2:54:29.640 All of that is less time for some nineteen year 2:54:29.640 --> 2:54:33.280 olds to challenge Kirk on his abortion views, and a 2:54:33.400 --> 2:54:36.640 knowing Charlie Kirk is just a fun bonus, now that 2:54:36.720 --> 2:54:39.560 I think about it, this is essentially the patent Oswalt 2:54:39.640 --> 2:54:44.720 filibuster tactic. Now, obviously Kirk has control of the mic 2:54:44.760 --> 2:54:47.480 and probably won't let you ramble on about gibberish for 2:54:47.680 --> 2:54:52.360 too long, So this strategy becomes more successful if you 2:54:52.400 --> 2:54:54.720 can get a whole team lined up in front of 2:54:54.720 --> 2:54:59.920 the microphone. Now, finally, the last option is disruption through force, 2:55:00.480 --> 2:55:03.200 preferably in a way that limits the possibility of creating 2:55:03.600 --> 2:55:07.039 an on camera spectacle that can be utilized by TPUSA. 2:55:08.320 --> 2:55:11.600 This has typically not been a common tactic used to 2:55:11.720 --> 2:55:15.680 counter Turning Point events on campus, but it may be 2:55:15.840 --> 2:55:20.960 time to reconsider. Forceful disruptions were often utilized when figures 2:55:21.000 --> 2:55:25.200 like Milo Uanapolis toured college campuses back in twenty sixteen 2:55:25.240 --> 2:55:29.120 to twenty eighteen, and more recently against campus events featuring 2:55:29.200 --> 2:55:34.119 Daily Wire employees like Michael Knowles and Matt Walsh. Historically, 2:55:34.280 --> 2:55:37.240 this strategy has not been applied to Charlie Kirk, as 2:55:37.280 --> 2:55:40.120 he's been viewed as less radical than some of these 2:55:40.200 --> 2:55:44.039 other figures. But I just don't think that's true anymore. 2:55:44.520 --> 2:55:49.439 Kirk is spreading and normalizing hardcore as xenophobic and nationalist 2:55:49.480 --> 2:55:54.160 rhetoric across college campuses with little to no resistance, not 2:55:54.320 --> 2:55:57.680 to mention his complete embrace of conspiracy theories and use 2:55:57.760 --> 2:56:02.400 of transphobia to undermine civil rights. There's many ways to 2:56:02.440 --> 2:56:07.240 disrupt events like this through forceful means, sound disruption, visual disruption, 2:56:07.720 --> 2:56:11.480 physical disruption, planning an alternate event to take place at 2:56:11.520 --> 2:56:15.440 the same time, and place big banners with Charles's tiny 2:56:15.520 --> 2:56:20.640 face carefully placed in view of the debate cameras. Creative 2:56:20.720 --> 2:56:25.520 opportunities abound, but it requires people to be actively monitoring 2:56:25.720 --> 2:56:29.920 when and where these events take place and actually plan 2:56:30.040 --> 2:56:33.480 a counterdemo ahead of time, and that just doesn't seem 2:56:33.520 --> 2:56:37.600 to be happening at the moment. And so I thought 2:56:37.760 --> 2:56:40.720 going to this event would help reboot my brain cheer 2:56:40.800 --> 2:56:45.400 myself up and amuse me with Charlie's childish display of 2:56:45.560 --> 2:56:50.080 debate kid politics. But it just left me more sad 2:56:50.680 --> 2:56:56.240 watching hapless kids fall prey to Kirk's transparent scheme, just 2:56:56.360 --> 2:56:58.800 feeling like I had no way to stop the train wreck. 2:56:59.560 --> 2:57:01.880 But it doesn't have to be this way. With a 2:57:01.959 --> 2:57:05.400 few friends and a little preparation, there is an alternative 2:57:05.680 --> 2:57:11.279 and hey, it could happen here. Well that's my recap 2:57:11.400 --> 2:57:15.680 on this fucking Charlie Kirk rally. Oh and heads up, 2:57:16.120 --> 2:57:19.080 next week, there's gonna be no Spooky Week episodes for 2:57:19.280 --> 2:57:22.959 the first time in four years. Sorry, the world has 2:57:23.080 --> 2:57:27.160 just gotten too spooky this year. Between the election and 2:57:28.000 --> 2:57:32.720 hurricanes and the genocide and Gaza and everything else happening, 2:57:33.040 --> 2:57:35.520 the world's just too spooky. I'm really just not feeling 2:57:35.840 --> 2:57:40.000 Halloween pilled as I usually am. Hopefully things will get 2:57:40.080 --> 2:57:44.080 better soon. But in lieu of Spooky Week, we actually 2:57:44.120 --> 2:57:47.039 have a special series from James on the Darien Gap, 2:57:47.400 --> 2:57:49.440 so you have that to look forward to next week. 2:57:50.040 --> 2:57:52.199 Goodbye everyone, see you on the other side. 2:57:54.840 --> 2:57:57.960 Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week 2:57:58.080 --> 2:57:59.920 from now until the heat Death of the Universe. 2:58:00.480 --> 2:58:02.959 It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 2:58:03.160 --> 2:58:06.200 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 2:58:06.280 --> 2:58:09.840 coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 2:58:09.959 --> 2:58:13.480 Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 2:58:13.560 --> 2:58:15.840 now find sources for it could Happen Here listed directly 2:58:15.920 --> 2:58:17.040 in episode descriptions. 2:58:17.400 --> 2:58:18.160 Thanks for listening.