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Speaker 1: A Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions. Oh, welcome back to

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Speaker 2: It could Happen Here a podcast about it happening. Here.

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Speaker 2: Things falling apart, and today the thing that is falling

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Speaker 2: apart is info Wars. Now, this is not a new situation.

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Speaker 2: Info Wars has been falling apart for like half a

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Speaker 2: decade now, but we are reaching certainly a point in

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Speaker 2: that process. And to talk about that point, I have

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Speaker 2: been bringing on really the only two people you can

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Speaker 2: bring on if you want an expert opinion on Alex Jones,

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Speaker 2: Dan and Jordan of Knowledge Fight Dan Jordan, Welcome to

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Speaker 2: the program.

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Speaker 3: Hello, Thank you for having us.

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Speaker 4: Hello.

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Speaker 5: You can bring us on to tell you things that

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Speaker 5: every other expert in the world will say are wrong.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Well.

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Speaker 3: It's nice to know that we are once again at

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Speaker 3: that point where shit is looking that bad for Alex yep,

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Speaker 3: that it's relevant for us to, uh yeah, get to start.

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Speaker 4: Doing your media tours.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I mean, hey, well we're I'm enjoying

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Speaker 5: this because I know we're gonna see you next year

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Speaker 5: to have the same conversation.

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Speaker 3: And I was flashing back to earlier times we've talked.

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Speaker 3: We've probably been like, hey, things are looking bad for Alex.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, my fingers are crossed that he gets a

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Speaker 2: bad batch of supplements and goes on like not a

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Speaker 2: sad murdering spree, but like a cannibal spree, Like he

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Speaker 2: eats three or four people. And then the news like

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Speaker 2: you guys, you guys are on fucking CNN talking about well,

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Speaker 2: actually Alex has been discussing eating people for quite some time. Sure,

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Speaker 2: this is this is really a long story for him. Really,

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Speaker 2: anyone should have seen this coming up. The lighting was

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Speaker 2: on the wall. This is some of the least surprising

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Speaker 2: cannibalism in media history.

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Speaker 3: It turns out this supplement, it didn't make him a cannibal.

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Speaker 3: It just brought out that cannibal that was already there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what the iodine does first before we get

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Speaker 2: into it. You know, elephant in the room, by which

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Speaker 2: I mean Dan, you look like you're ready to lead

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Speaker 2: the Union Army in a series of Civil War battles.

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Speaker 2: That's a compliment to your facial hair.

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Speaker 3: So by elephant you mean the tusks. Yes, well, thank

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Speaker 3: you very much. I'm learning to accept compliments. Yeah, I've

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Speaker 3: got a ridiculous handlebar situation that I did as a joke.

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Speaker 3: I got this as a joke to go to undercover

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Speaker 3: to a Tucker Carlson event.

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Speaker 2: That's an incredible decision.

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Speaker 3: And then the positive feedback spit too much for me

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Speaker 3: to handle.

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Speaker 4: It's good.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, this is really changing things for me

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Speaker 2: because prior to seeing this, Jordan would have been my

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Speaker 2: go to if I needed someone to help me burn Atlanta.

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Speaker 2: But now I don't know, I don't know, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: could be either of you.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of Civil war jokes, a lot of

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Speaker 3: hitting home runs in the seventies, sure, sure jokes.

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Speaker 2: So okay, I have a whole subreddit full of people

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Speaker 2: that just photoshot my face on the pictures of rass Button.

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Speaker 4: So it's what happens.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of ras Button, he was psychic, and so is Alex.

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Speaker 2: According to Alex. Yeah, yeah, what do you guys want

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Speaker 2: to start here, because like, obviously the big news right

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Speaker 2: now is all of info Wars is up for auction,

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Speaker 2: including apparently Alex is twittering. It sounds like will probably

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Speaker 2: be part of the deal, although I guess that's a

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Speaker 2: little unclear right now.

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Speaker 3: He's trying to fight that inclusion of the Twitter handle

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Speaker 3: in his bankruptcy estate. But I think almost anybody could

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Speaker 3: make a pretty solid argument that it's company property. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: Like he uses it to broadcast his show. He takes

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Speaker 3: calls on it for his show, Yeah, from Twitter spaces,

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Speaker 3: So like, yeah, he's probably going to lose that fight,

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Speaker 3: and it's probably going to be part of the auction.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, But I mean, at the same time, him not

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Speaker 5: having it makes it valueless, so it's worthless.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So if I were going to auction it, it would

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Speaker 5: be worth zero dollars, But if I were going to

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Speaker 5: give it to Alex, it would be worth to him

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Speaker 5: millions upon millions of dollars.

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Speaker 4: And that's the issue here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it does kind of seem and I listened to

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Speaker 2: Alex primarily through you, but it does seem like, from

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Speaker 2: what I'm here on your show, he's kind of more

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Speaker 2: concerned about the Twitter account than the multimillion dollar studio

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Speaker 2: space yeah time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, which actually is kind of funny because I

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Speaker 3: think it belies a lack of confidence. Yeah, because I

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Speaker 3: think if he loses real Alex Jones on Twitter, he

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Speaker 3: could have reeler Alex Jones. Yep.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't seem like that would be a problem for him. Actually,

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Speaker 2: do you think.

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Speaker 3: You can't gather this audience back together.

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Speaker 4: I think that's the problem. He's worried he can't get

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Speaker 4: it back.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well and specifically him, Like Elon would tell people

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Speaker 2: to follow him, there'd be a bunch of people with

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Speaker 2: huge accounts saying this is the new Alex yit Like,

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Speaker 2: I really don't think it would be much more than

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Speaker 2: a speed bump. Actually, unfortunately you.

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Speaker 4: Can think that, but these aren't your friends.

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Speaker 5: Can't trust Elon fucking Musk help you out.

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Speaker 3: I do think that there's an abandonment fear possibly, yeah,

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Speaker 3: or some some sort of lack of confidence that like,

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Speaker 3: if this speed bump does hit, I won't be able

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Speaker 3: to rebuild.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: No, And it makes sense.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's delusional. I think he's totally fine.

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Speaker 3: Start one hundred new Twitter accounts. You'd get a million

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Speaker 3: followers on all of those, agreed.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, But I mean he's delusionable about just about everything,

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Speaker 5: so it makes sense that in this case he would

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Speaker 5: be delusional in the wrong direction.

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Speaker 3: That's true.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So yeah, how does this seem to be going?

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Speaker 2: My big concern when I'm when I'm thinking about it,

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Speaker 2: is like, well, there's probably someone rich out there, some

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Speaker 2: like rich asshole, you know, think tank funding oil billionaire

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Speaker 2: that would consider it chump change to buy all this

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Speaker 2: shit up and just give it back to Alex. But

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Speaker 2: my understanding is that that's not actually like a thing

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Speaker 2: you can do in these kind of situations. Although I'm

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Speaker 2: not not an expert.

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Speaker 3: On it, Oh, I think you can. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: The trustee has the ability to even say, like if

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Speaker 5: there is if there was like a bid that was

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Speaker 5: from whomever you want to say, like out of nowhere,

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Speaker 5: George Soros, if you.

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Speaker 2: Like, fucking William Regnery the fifth or whichever rignary were

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Speaker 2: on now, Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 5: Ten billion dollars more money than God could imagine. But

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Speaker 5: the trustee you wanted it to stay in right wing

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Speaker 5: billionaire hands. He could give it to somebody who bid

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Speaker 5: six million dollars for it or five, don't.

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Speaker 3: I don't think that that's actually accurate, fully, And I

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Speaker 3: also don't think that the trustee is beholden to Alex

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Speaker 3: in any way.

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Speaker 4: I'm saying that.

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Speaker 5: I'm just saying that there is that level of control

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Speaker 5: that is not just like it's going to the highest bidder.

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Speaker 3: I understand it. The trustees control in terms of that

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Speaker 3: is more about a minimum bid. Like, if there were

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Speaker 3: higher bids, it would be very difficult to rationalize not

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Speaker 3: taking them if they are from people who have the

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Speaker 3: actual money. Sure, aren't I guess involved with terrorism, sure

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Speaker 3: or something. Unless there is a concrete reason not to

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Speaker 3: accept it, I would be surprised. Yeah, if they didn't

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Speaker 3: accept Soros if he made a bid.

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Speaker 4: I mean I would be too.

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Speaker 5: But also, currently we are on surprise number seven and

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Speaker 5: a half thousand.

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Speaker 4: It's not more.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so that would be the least surprising thing if

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Speaker 5: it was a surprising thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess.

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Speaker 4: So.

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Speaker 2: I think we're all agreed. Alex isn't going to just

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Speaker 2: shut up and ride into the sunset. He's physically incapable

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Speaker 2: of doing that. Like he would literally literally explode like

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Speaker 2: a soda with mintos dropped into it if that were

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Speaker 2: to happen. Yeah, But also there's a massive judgment on him, right,

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Speaker 2: So my understanding is that like any money beyond whatever

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Speaker 2: a court decides would be necessary for him to maintain existence,

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Speaker 2: although I understand there's also like ways you can fuck

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Speaker 2: around with that too, Like what do you guys know about,

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Speaker 2: like what kind of limitations the court has placed on

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Speaker 2: Alex for the future after all of his shit gets

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Speaker 2: sold out from underneath him.

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Speaker 3: Well, I don't know about like specific details, but because

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Speaker 3: his judgment was deemed to be like malicious and intentional,

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Speaker 3: the amount that he owes personally is not dischargeable by bankruptcy. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: so he's in chapter seven bankruptcy now personally, and so

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Speaker 3: he's liquidating all the assets. So he has to sell

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Speaker 3: off the company, which is how we get to the

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Speaker 3: auction in the first place. And so he will sell

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Speaker 3: off these assets to go towards the payment of these people.

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Speaker 3: But that's not going to erase the debts and set

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Speaker 3: things even so in theory, he could be hounded for

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Speaker 3: the rest of his life. Sure, he could have wages

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Speaker 3: garnished have some oversight of his finances in theory. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: to the amount that that's exercised, I'm not sure how

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Speaker 3: much it will be, but yeah, that's going to be

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Speaker 3: hanging over him for the rest of his life. Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Or I mean, if I was him, and based on

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Speaker 5: how things are going for him so far and the

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Speaker 5: direction things are taking, then once this is handled, then

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Speaker 5: he's going to move all of his money to Alex

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Speaker 5: jonestore dot com. And then once they catch him there,

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Speaker 5: he's gonna move all of his money to Alex jonestore

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Speaker 5: dot com two. And then once they catch him there,

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Speaker 5: he's gonna move his stuff to Alex Jones dot com three.

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Speaker 5: Until eventually everybody gets so fucking tired that they're like, fine,

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Speaker 5: either we're no longer going to come after you, or

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Speaker 5: will settle for fucking nothing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Because and him and his lawyers explained that even

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Speaker 3: as part of their legal strategy early on, which is

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Speaker 3: that you exhaust people with delays and to the point

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Speaker 3: where someone's just willing to settle because you're such a

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Speaker 3: pain in the ass. Yeah, And that's just kind of

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Speaker 3: his mode of operation.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And every time people have been like, well, clearly

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Speaker 5: you can't continue to be a pain in the ass

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Speaker 5: this way anymore. It won't be allowed. It has instead

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Speaker 5: been allowed, so you can do it.

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Speaker 4: It's fun.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to get like in the way of

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Speaker 2: people's you know, celebrating the downfall of Alex Jones. But

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Speaker 2: it does kind of seem like nothing realistically is going

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Speaker 2: to stop him from being rich and being able to

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Speaker 2: talk to an audience of people who are dangerously devoted

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Speaker 2: to his shit. Like none of this is actually going

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Speaker 2: to I'm sure it's unpleasant and stressful, right, but it's

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Speaker 2: not going to stop him. It's just not possible.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, this is why you get other experts, because I

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Speaker 5: do want to get in the way of people enjoying

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Speaker 5: quote unquote info.

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Speaker 2: I'm just talking about like when I'm when I'm watching

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Speaker 2: people celebrate on Twitter, like you can't correct everybody. It's

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Speaker 2: like whenever, whenever there's like this info about Alex Jones

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Speaker 2: that people listen to your show, know, like there was

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Speaker 2: a period of time where I would correct people about

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Speaker 2: that or really literally anything else. And I've increasing the

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Speaker 2: out to the point where like everyone's wrong about almost

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Speaker 2: everything they say on the Internet, and there's really no

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Speaker 2: point in correcting anybody about it anymore, Like, what am

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Speaker 2: I going to do? How is this going to help?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I see people like posting videos of Alex crying, yeah,

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Speaker 3: and like changing the context of what it is for

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Speaker 3: some post and it's like, you guys are just it's

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Speaker 3: not worth the energy to correct here. Yeah, to your point, though,

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Speaker 3: Jordanan does want to stop people from celebrating and ruining

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Speaker 3: everyone's fun. I'm in the middle, okay. I would like

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Speaker 3: people to be a little half at the time to

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Speaker 3: do it. I want people to be a little bit

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Speaker 3: more realistic about their expectations, people being like celebrating prematurely,

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Speaker 3: Like you're just gonna have to deal with the hangover

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Speaker 3: of this. That is, there's a pretty decent chance somebody

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Speaker 3: aligned with Alex is going to buy the company and

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Speaker 3: then all of it is going to get just given

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Speaker 3: back to him, And it's equally likely that someone you know,

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Speaker 3: like a Soro or whatever, does end up buying it.

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Speaker 3: Info Wars is destroyed and Alex's revenue streams remain intact

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Speaker 3: because his dad runs his supplement company now that's outside

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Speaker 3: of the bankruptcy. He shifted all of his merch over

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Speaker 3: to this Alex Jones store dot com that's run by

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Speaker 3: somebody else, So like all the meaningful ways that he

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Speaker 3: can make money are now protected, and he can just

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Speaker 3: start Alex Jones Fuck Around Hour or whatever and have

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Speaker 3: these people be sponsors, and you know, it'll feel fun

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Speaker 3: that Info Wars is gone or someone else bought it

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Speaker 3: or whatever. But like you know, like you're saying, Robert,

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Speaker 3: it doesn't it doesn't really address the issue, and nothing

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Speaker 3: is nothing's really gained.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's kind of been a massive waste

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Speaker 5: of everybody's time. But but a lot of lawyers are

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Speaker 5: ever going to make a lot of money, so that's good.

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Speaker 2: It does seem if I'm going out of my way

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Speaker 2: to kind of look at what are the most positive

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Speaker 2: results of this, Like if I mean, it does look

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Speaker 2: like he's probably going to lose control of all all

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Speaker 2: of the shit that they have to film Info Wars, Right,

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Speaker 2: that won't stop them from filming and doing videos, but

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Speaker 2: maybe they'll look like crap, and maybe that will have

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Speaker 2: an impact on like the degree of credence people give them,

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Speaker 2: you know, like maybe the fact that info Wars has

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Speaker 2: a nice studio isn't zero percent of like why their

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Speaker 2: shit gets taken seriously by people. I don't think it's

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Speaker 2: most of why, but it's not nothing either, otherwise like

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Speaker 2: they wouldn't be doing it. Like I do think that

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Speaker 2: that although I don't know, maybe that was in a

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Speaker 2: different era is when that mattered.

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Speaker 3: I think it's also psychologically important for him. Yeah, that

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Speaker 3: might be the most he wants to think he's doing

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Speaker 3: a real show, and without the trappings of a fake

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Speaker 3: CNN studio. It's harder to pretend that you're not just

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Speaker 3: reading Twitter headlines and then getting mad about them. But

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Speaker 3: I do I do feel like this idea that it's

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Speaker 3: a waste of time and everything has been a waste

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Speaker 3: of time. I just want to give a little bit

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Speaker 3: of voice to the fact that it may feel like

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Speaker 3: a waste of time and nothing has been achieved. But

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Speaker 3: you know, if you listen to the perspective of some

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Speaker 3: of the plaintiffs and some of the families, the ability

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Speaker 3: to face him in court and reclaim some of the

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Speaker 3: power that he had over memories, yeah, and the power

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Speaker 3: and the pain. You know, that isn't something that is

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Speaker 3: quantifiable in terms of the money or you know, all

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Speaker 3: of his feet dragging, but it is something that matters,

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Speaker 3: and I don't want to pretend that that hasn't been achieved.

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Speaker 3: Oh great, as much as it's not the catharsis of

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Speaker 3: him getting arrested or losing all of his money or

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Speaker 3: whatever that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I mean, I just I think we all

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Speaker 5: needed to understand clearly from the beginning what this was,

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Speaker 5: and that would have altered kind of the way that

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Speaker 5: this is perceived. Like if we had all known from

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Speaker 5: the jump, Like if all the lawyers and everybody and

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Speaker 5: all the media had gotten together and been like, listen,

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Speaker 5: this is going to be a moral victory, and it's

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Speaker 5: gonna be good to have this like in public, to

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Speaker 5: have this airing for all of us to see and

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Speaker 5: for the families to have.

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Speaker 4: I think we would have been fine with that.

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Speaker 5: The problem was all the rest of the stuff was

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Speaker 5: a waste of everybody's time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, does that make sense? Yeah, No, that makes sense

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Speaker 2: to me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I think if we had just had that, this could

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Speaker 5: all have been banged out in a day.

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Speaker 4: Really.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Like we get everybody in court, everybody gets to

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Speaker 5: say their piece, and then we're done, and Alex gets

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Speaker 5: to remain rich.

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Speaker 4: It's basically the same thing.

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Speaker 2: All right, Well, We're gonna keep talking on this, and

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna ask you guys for an update on how

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Speaker 2: Alex is handling the election too. But first, what's all

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Speaker 2: handle some ads and we're back. You know, this is

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Speaker 2: one thing, this is gonna right.

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Speaker 3: I got to stop you. I can't believe you're running

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Speaker 3: an ad for doctor Jones Natural.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's just very different, very different naturals. Though, very

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Speaker 2: different naturals. Not we are, we are using that in

337
00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:15,000
Speaker 2: the porn sense. My okay, My Alex Jones deep fake

338
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:19,000
Speaker 2: pornography website is off the ground. For seventy dollars a month.

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Speaker 2: You two can have a subscription Doctor j Jones Shrunk Natural.

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Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, doctor doctor Jones Supplements.

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Speaker 4: You have some real trunk naturals.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, most of what I do is just take clips

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Speaker 2: from the graduate and uh and put him in as

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Speaker 2: the as the male elite. I don't know why.

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Speaker 3: I don't know why to give people what they want.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, we made forty million dollars last month.

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Speaker 6: Damn.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we should. We should have stopped with this whole

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Speaker 4: no ads thing.

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Speaker 2: So I I I want to talk a little bit

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Speaker 2: about how Alex has been handling the election. Because you know,

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Speaker 2: one of the things that's always interesting to me is

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Speaker 2: how his sense about whether or not everyone's doomed to be,

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Speaker 2: you know, murdered by the New World Order and have

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Speaker 2: their corpse disposed of by a robot is not related

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Speaker 2: at all to like how conservatism is doing, how how

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Speaker 2: his party has picked candidates are doing. It's it's a

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Speaker 2: pure his own personal vibes, because right now is not

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Speaker 2: a terrible time if you're a fascist in the United States.

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Speaker 2: There's a real good chance they're going to have a

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Speaker 2: have a runaway win here in the next couple of weeks.

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Speaker 2: But alex is, at least based on the most recent

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Speaker 2: episode of Knowledge Fight I've listened to more or less

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Speaker 2: on the everything is fucked and we're all doomed. The

365
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Speaker 2: New World Order is going to eat you all things.

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Speaker 2: I think it's just because he's got the auction team

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Speaker 2: coming by his office.

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Speaker 3: Well a spoiler alert in the next episode, he's had

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Speaker 3: a euphorium moment because he's realized that they're gonna win.

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Speaker 5: They've already won. You've you're far you're way too far behind.

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Speaker 5: Now Tomorrow, of course, they will be losing, and we're

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Speaker 5: all gonna die.

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Speaker 3: He's a rapid cycling kind of guy.

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Speaker 4: I don't do that We're gonna win.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but I mean I think I think that, you know,

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Speaker 3: we've even talked about this before, this dynamic of like

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Speaker 3: your enemy has to be uh, super strong and then

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Speaker 3: super defeatable and super weak, like all of that must

379
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Speaker 3: exist simultaneously or else. Yeah, you know his game doesn't

380
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Speaker 3: really work as well. Yeah, so that that energy is

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Speaker 3: going to keep going until the election.

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Speaker 4: And also it makes sense.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I can't imagine the idea of a bunch

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Speaker 5: of professional people coming into my home or place of

385
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Speaker 5: business and just like cataloging things, just taking each individual pictures,

386
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Speaker 5: the amount of stress and nervous energy that that would provide. Yeah,

387
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Speaker 5: like I'd be like I did, I didn't know. I

388
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Speaker 5: don't know if I needed to clean that. I don't

389
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Speaker 5: know if I needed to clean it.

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Speaker 3: She would be getting real.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, I just like cleaning up my dad's place

392
00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:52,040
Speaker 2: after he died was like this whole thing of all

393
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Speaker 2: of these are items that have meaning to our family,

394
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Speaker 2: and I would be okay burning them all in a

395
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Speaker 2: fire in.

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Speaker 4: A pit, right yeah, right, Like I'm just I'm done.

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Speaker 2: I'm done. So I can't imagine like the sense of

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Speaker 2: fuck it I would have and Alex is, especially if

399
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,800
Speaker 2: I had Alex Jones money, like he really it's just

400
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,719
Speaker 2: more evidence that there's a deep sickness involved in all

401
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,440
Speaker 2: this with him, like he can't stop himself, like yes,

402
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,520
Speaker 2: go fish or something, bro like go on a nice

403
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Speaker 2: fishing trip. What are you doing sitting in your office

404
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:24,359
Speaker 2: watching your life get picked apart? What a miserable place.

405
00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:26,600
Speaker 4: Give everybody the day off. It's great.

406
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,240
Speaker 3: Fishing's not going to stop the devil, and that is

407
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Speaker 3: really uh, you.

408
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Speaker 5: Know, fishing is actually how the devil gets out. It's

409
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,520
Speaker 5: every water is a portal to the fifth dimension of Hell,

410
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,520
Speaker 5: which is actually the lower fifth. There's a higher fifth

411
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Speaker 5: dimension where good demons come I mean, angels come out

412
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Speaker 5: of but then the lower fifth dimension comes up through

413
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Speaker 5: the pond, and that's where catfish come from.

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Speaker 3: This is not an Alex theory, but it plausibly could be.

415
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, I feel like I wasn't far off.

416
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Speaker 2: No, no, So how are we? How are we doing

417
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Speaker 2: with Alex in terms of like one thing I've noticed

418
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Speaker 2: maybe I have a You can tell me if you

419
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Speaker 2: agree with my kind of interpretation here is that he

420
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Speaker 2: seems to be at a little bit of a lower

421
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Speaker 2: ebb in terms of getting invited on and talking with

422
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Speaker 2: like much more popular creators. I haven't seen like last year,

423
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Speaker 2: I felt like I saw him on a lot of stuff,

424
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Speaker 2: and this year. I don't know if it's just that

425
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,960
Speaker 2: he's not, you know, as sexy as he was to

426
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,719
Speaker 2: them last year. But I'm just not seeing him out

427
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Speaker 2: as much as I kind of expected to in an election.

428
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Speaker 2: And I'm wondering if that's your interpretation too, or if

429
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Speaker 2: I'm just kind of you think I'm off.

430
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Speaker 3: I think it's fifty to fifty because I think that

431
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Speaker 3: there is something to that, Like he was on he's

432
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Speaker 3: been on more fun stuff before in the past, and

433
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Speaker 3: it's been it's been a little bit limited this year,

434
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Speaker 3: but he was just on Tucker's Live show in Pennsylvania,

435
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:50,480
Speaker 3: which is about as big as anything he's done. Probably

436
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:52,480
Speaker 3: it at least it feels pretty big.

437
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:54,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, it wasn't the two drunk sports guys.

438
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, flagrant two flagrant too. That might have been

439
00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:58,840
Speaker 3: a few years ago too.

440
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, my memory is terrible.

441
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 3: He hasn't been back on Rogan. Yeah, you know, there's

442
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,159
Speaker 3: some big there's some big gaps in terms of like

443
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 3: where he feels like he should be appearing. But you know,

444
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:11,919
Speaker 3: if you look at the luminaries that were on the

445
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,560
Speaker 3: Tucker Carlson tour, like him being included in that list

446
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 3: of people is pretty you know, that's that's rarefied air.

447
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 4: I mean, unfortunately, I guess it is in a way.

448
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,840
Speaker 3: You got RFK Junior, Yeah, you got the vic.

449
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:29,159
Speaker 5: They're consequential people, which is the most desruning part is

450
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 5: that these are the dregs of humanity and yet they

451
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,680
Speaker 5: are very consequential people that we should be paying attention.

452
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 2: It's absolutely infuriating that, Yeah, I have to care about

453
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,239
Speaker 2: especially fucking Vivac. Yeah, because I ran into him at

454
00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,240
Speaker 2: the fucking RNC and he was being surrounded by a

455
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,359
Speaker 2: cloud of guys who all looked like Nick Fuintes. Like

456
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,440
Speaker 2: the only reason I didn't assume one of them was

457
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 2: Nick Fuintes is that any one of them could have

458
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,639
Speaker 2: been Nick Fuintes. And I had to fight this urge.

459
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,720
Speaker 2: Do you're seeing those like old man comics, like a

460
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 2: guy I'll be fighting one hundred shrews and like eating

461
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,200
Speaker 2: one of them to death with the others, I had

462
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 2: to fight off the urge to pick up one Fuintes

463
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 2: by the lakes. It just starts swinging him.

464
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:07,640
Speaker 4: Just start swinging.

465
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:10,159
Speaker 3: You are my weapon.

466
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 2: So like, where do you where do you see Alex

467
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:16,359
Speaker 2: a year from now?

468
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 3: Right?

469
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,680
Speaker 2: Like, do you have any kind of expectation for where

470
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:21,639
Speaker 2: he's going to be, because like, at some point his

471
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:23,880
Speaker 2: dad has to die, which I understand is a pretty

472
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:25,920
Speaker 2: important part right now of how he's able to keep

473
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,520
Speaker 2: money flowing well to his operation the face of the judgment, right.

474
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,200
Speaker 3: His dad and his brother in law both run. Okay,

475
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 3: the Doctor Jones naturals, So even if Old David Jones

476
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 3: catch the bucket, his brother is still going to be there.

477
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 3: So I think, I think Alex is fine. But he

478
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:44,000
Speaker 3: almost killed his dad with COVID.

479
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,119
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I am surprised Doctor Jones lived through that,

480
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:48,360
Speaker 2: given alexis.

481
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 3: Yeah gorilla sitting on his chest, Yeah.

482
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

483
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 5: I think it is a little bit of a testament

484
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 5: to how insane and how the best torture for Alex

485
00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 5: is just being cursed with being Alex is. Like if

486
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,159
Speaker 5: I was in this scenario where I plausibly have a

487
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,719
Speaker 5: reason to never touch or talk about money again, and

488
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 5: yet still make the almost exact same amount of it.

489
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 4: That would be perfect. That's just taking a job away

490
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 4: from me right now.

491
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,440
Speaker 5: It's my dad's problem to look at the sales numbers.

492
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:19,640
Speaker 4: Dr tr anywhere else.

493
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 3: That's not a good ad man. That's the thing you

494
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:23,200
Speaker 3: can do a good read.

495
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, if Alex is the face guy, doctor Jones handles

496
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 5: the business, that means that Alex doesn't have to do both.

497
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 4: It makes perfect sense.

498
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,399
Speaker 3: But to your question, though, like I really do feel

499
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 3: like right now we're in the most chaotic possible moment

500
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,399
Speaker 3: because you have these two things that could go any

501
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 3: direction that are happening around the same time. Like you

502
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 3: have the election, and then you also have the auction, right,

503
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 3: and if Trump wins or loses, there's a lot of

504
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 3: different possibilities of how his path might go. And if

505
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 3: someone who he's aligned with ends up buying the company

506
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 3: or not, that's another Like the world would be very

507
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 3: different in terms of the choices that he has in

508
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 3: front of him. Yeah, but I think it'll be bad.

509
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 3: I think he'll be unhappy that I think, no matter

510
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 3: what I think, will be pretty miserable. Yeah.

511
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's just because of him. He's just a

512
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,200
Speaker 4: real miserable piece of shit.

513
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, I spend a lot of time thinking about his

514
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 2: bee cast and how they might do because I again,

515
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 2: I I don't see a world in which Alex gives

516
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 2: up what he's doing. But I do see a world

517
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,640
Speaker 2: in which he can no longer pay Owen Schroyer.

518
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 4: Uh.

519
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 5: And that's that's the truth, that's the true goal, when it's.

520
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 2: Not making what a heartbreaking amount of money. I'm sure

521
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 2: more further into the six figures than Owen Shrotier ot

522
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 2: to be.

523
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 3: I wonder what the deal with him would be though,

524
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 3: Like he went to jail for Alex.

525
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 2: God, it's true, he sure did.

526
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 3: He did. Time, Like what could he tell if he

527
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 3: was off the payroll or you know, like or how

528
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 3: much do you pay to keep him on the payroll?

529
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,439
Speaker 3: Because he's the kind of guy who went to jail

530
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 3: for you.

531
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 5: I mean, if you look at a I mean, David

532
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 5: Knight's not going to jail for you. But if that's

533
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 5: if that's a comparable exit for a personal popularity, I

534
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 5: don't think Owen's got much of a shot.

535
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,679
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think he can be tossed into the ocean.

536
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 3: But I think Chase Chase Geyser is more of a

537
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 3: beat player than Owen.

538
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 5: We just have a personal he just Chase Geyser is

539
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 5: a new character who's popped up in the later seasons

540
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 5: of the show.

541
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, and he's.

542
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 5: Really brought a new He's brought a lot of a

543
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 5: late season juice to it that I think we needed.

544
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's better than No One though, that's fr Yeah.

545
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 2: See I was going to say, it's like when Fraser

546
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 2: brought on all those British people. But speaking of British people,

547
00:25:52,920 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 2: our sponsors might be British. We don't check and we're back. Okay, guys,

548
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,679
Speaker 2: So I guess, kind of closing stuff out, what do

549
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:14,919
Speaker 2: you think this year have been the big pieces of

550
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 2: Alex misinformation that you've seen people spreading online? Like, what's

551
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,280
Speaker 2: kind of been your biggest I'm guessing this is gonna

552
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 2: be a Jordan heavy question, but.

553
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 5: Like stuff about Alex or stuff yeah, yeah, yeah, stuff

554
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 5: about Alex that's like specifically, what kind of stuff have

555
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 5: you heard, like people in media saying about Alex this

556
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 5: year that has pissed you off the most? I Mean,

557
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,480
Speaker 5: the funny part of this question is that I've actually

558
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 5: left the Internet about as much as possible because of

559
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 5: the rage that the rage that I feel at this

560
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 5: very situation.

561
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 2: A wise move.

562
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, So, I honestly, I think I think the big

563
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 5: thing for me personally is just the if we are

564
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,479
Speaker 5: going to talk about Alex's auction, then to me, what

565
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 5: we're talking about is how much money the families are

566
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 5: going to receive. That's to me in my head of

567
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 5: if we're gonna talk money, then what we should talk

568
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,400
Speaker 5: about is the end point. How much do the families

569
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 5: get And even if this auction just goes gangbusters, the

570
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 5: families are going to get so so little of whatever

571
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 5: happens because they're the last in line before you pay,

572
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 5: like Norm Pattis is going to make more money at

573
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 5: the end of all of this process than any of

574
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 5: the family members.

575
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 4: That's just that's just probably.

576
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 5: True, I would say, if not guaranteed true at this point,

577
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 5: unless of course Mark Cuban or somebody a billionaire shows

578
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 5: up and showers them with money. But for the most part,

579
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 5: it's it's like, the end goals should be the families,

580
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 5: they should be first, but that's the wrong thing.

581
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 4: They're the last. So it's very annoying, it's very frustrating.

582
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is especially given that, like that's the whole

583
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 2: reason for the suit, Like that's.

584
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 4: The whole reason for the season.

585
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 2: But I mean, obviously the system is not conducted to

586
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 2: benefit family last who are suffering. That's not who makes

587
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 2: the rules, that's not who operates the system. The system. Yeah, okay,

588
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 2: we don't need to rant about that. It is a bummer, Dan,

589
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 2: what about you?

590
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 3: I mean, maybe it's recency bias and stuff, but like,

591
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 3: I do think that the conversation around the auction is

592
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 3: missing a little bit of the point, whether it be

593
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 3: in terms of you know, what the sale is, like

594
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,959
Speaker 3: you were bringing up Jordan, or like people thinking that

595
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 3: there is a solution to the problem that Alex represents,

596
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,640
Speaker 3: Like this isn't going to be like a ding Dong

597
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 3: the Witch's dead type moment. You're going to have, you know,

598
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 3: his new thing funded by the companies that he's been

599
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 3: building up to avoid the bankruptcy, or you're going to

600
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 3: have somebody who's with him but that buys it in

601
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,239
Speaker 3: for wars is going to be the same problem on

602
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 3: November fourteenth or whatever as it was the day before.

603
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 3: And I think that I think that people are getting

604
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 3: themselves may be a little bit up for a disappointment. Yeah,

605
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 3: and I think that we've seen that a couple times,

606
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 3: like with the alexad the night where he claimed that

607
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 3: security guards were trying to shut him down. You know,

608
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 3: people got excited about like this is it? Yeah yep,

609
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 3: And I think maybe I'm jaded too because of years

610
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 3: of doing this.

611
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 6: Yeah.

612
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's almost never it.

613
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 5: I mean, I want to say this and I want

614
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 5: people to recognize that this is true in regards to

615
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 5: this scenario. You are never going to come. You're never

616
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 5: going to come. It's never going to happen. You're going

617
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 5: to be perpetually close, and then you're not gonna make it,

618
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 5: and then you're gonna come back. That's how it is.

619
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 2: If you're into edging, Alex is the guy to follow.

620
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's perfect.

621
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 2: So I think that that's actually really good advice. Like

622
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 2: if you if you just as a layman, are hearing

623
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 2: people talk about Alex Jones on social media or like

624
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 2: seeing some sort of like opinion column or whatever and

625
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 2: some you know, left wing or liberal rag and you

626
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 2: want to know, like how credible is this? I guess

627
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 2: the first question to ask is are they predicting a

628
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 2: massive change to Alex and what he actually does, because

629
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 2: if so, probably nothing has got Unless it's like an

630
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 2: article that he's been diagnosed with the disease, nothing's probably

631
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 2: going to change, right, at some point he's going to die.

632
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 2: I'm not being mean.

633
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 3: I don't even know.

634
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 4: I wouldn't believe that article. I wouldn't believe a word

635
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 4: in that article.

636
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 3: They're lying, well, you take that illness with doctor Marbles to.

637
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 4: Get out, Yes, exactly.

638
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 3: The deposition of them, so like he you know, fu

639
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 3: fuck even that. Yeah, I think I look at it

640
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 3: slightly differently, and that is that I do predict that

641
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 3: there will be a massive change. We just don't know

642
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 3: what it'll be. Sure like there'll be something. He's got

643
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 3: to do something, because his content is really stagnant and

644
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 3: a bit uninteresting in the Trump sense. Yeah, and I do.

645
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 3: I think that there is a change that will be

646
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 3: needed if he wants to maintain whatever he's doing. But

647
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 3: I mean, anybody who has an idea of what it

648
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 3: is is wrong.

649
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I imagine that predicting anything in the

650
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 5: next sixty days is going to be a ridiculous proposition.

651
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 5: If you had predicted a new hurricane fucking two weeks ago,

652
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 5: people would have thought you were crazy.

653
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I think that's all I had to ask. Guys,

654
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 2: anything you wanted to plug will bring up before we

655
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 2: close out.

656
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 3: Uh no, just we exist to where we have a show.

657
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 2: I'll check out Knowledge Fight. It's my favorite podcast. It's

658
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 2: the only only reasonable way to keep up with Alex

659
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 2: Jones and a whole network of other con men and

660
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 2: grifters who who kind of latch onto him like that

661
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 2: fish that lives on the underside of a shark, except

662
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 2: for Alex. Alex is also a remora or remera. Right,

663
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 2: So it's just like a It's like a just a

664
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 2: series of smaller and smaller ones, each sucking each other off.

665
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, that sounds about right.

666
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 2: And Alex is latched onto the side of a crew

667
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 2: ship toilet. Yeah, there were more on the cruise ship toilet.

668
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, you've now turned this into a human centipede situation.

669
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 3: I have, I have.

670
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 2: I don't know why again again, it's all this is

671
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 2: all viral marketing for doctor Jones's Big Naturals.

672
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:19,480
Speaker 5: Now figured out an appropriate punishment for defamation of character

673
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 5: human centipedes.

674
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been saying that for years years.

675
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like and I do have to point

676
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 3: this out. Sure, that is both cruel and very unusual.

677
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 5: It is perhaps the most unusual thing you could imagine.

678
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 2: Really, I hate to say, but somebody, it would it

679
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 2: would take like some of these people three months to

680
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 2: have several thousand people convinced that human centipeding is like

681
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 2: a mental health hack, like it's it's it's like getting

682
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 2: rid of seed oils. You know, that's how you accelerate

683
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 2: muscle development.

684
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 4: Right, yeah, yeah.

685
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 2: Ancient cavemen were always eating each other ship you know

686
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 2: what You've also you've also made a very good point.

687
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 5: If you this this whole thing. If you want to

688
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 5: stop Alex, Alex is a symptom. Alex is a symptom

689
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 5: of the larger problem. You need to regulate supplements, Yes,

690
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 5: FDA approved supplements.

691
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 2: We'll get rid of most of these guys every podcast

692
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 2: episode we can. We are pushing the line. In my dream.

693
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 2: If I accomplish one thing in my life, it would

694
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:21,000
Speaker 2: be getting this to become widely agreed upon by liberals

695
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 2: and the left. Regulate supplements, allowed direct sales of cars

696
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 2: to consumers yep, and ban MLMs, and prosecute people criminally

697
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 2: for trying to operate them. Do that, and you fix

698
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 2: a lot of other problems.

699
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 3: I would do something about precious metals businesses too, I

700
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 3: would throw that.

701
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 2: Well. Hey, now, hey, now, Mike Lindell's giving us some

702
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 2: gold money. Sir, right, you just wait wait right there

703
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 2: untill he runs out.

704
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 3: Dan, pillow sales are illegal, also, I should.

705
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 2: Pillows are illegal? Makes your neck week Yep, all right,

706
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 2: everybody listen to knowledge by Thank you, Dan and Jordan.

707
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 2: As always, we'll be back tomorrow with some other episode

708
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 2: of this podcast that we do every day.

709
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 7: Welcome to it could happen here. I'm Garrison. This is

710
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 7: a little special episode today. I'm joined by Alex from

711
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 7: Corvalis Antifa and Hank, who's using a pseudonym for personal

712
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 7: safety from the Left Coast Right Watch Team. Hello to

713
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 7: you both, and thank you so much for joining me.

714
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 8: Hey, what's happening? Thank you so much for having us,

715
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 8: Thanks for having us.

716
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 9: Good to be here.

717
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 7: So today we're gonna be talking about this group called

718
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 7: White Lives Matter. I guess originally White Lives Matter was

719
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 7: like a slogan and like a very a very loose

720
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,560
Speaker 7: group from like twenty fifteen, or at least it kind

721
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 7: of started in twenty fifteen as a reaction to the

722
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 7: growing Black Lives Matter movement. I know, I definitely saw this,

723
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 7: this phrase propagated via like memes, flyers, billboards, and other

724
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,439
Speaker 7: forms of propaganda as a way to like seed white

725
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 7: nationalist rhetoric to the then like growing and burgeoning.

726
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 8: Al Right, Yeah, so there was a formation that was

727
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,399
Speaker 8: kind of like an NSM splinter formation that happened in

728
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:34,240
Speaker 8: an in reaction to the initial Black Lives Matter protests

729
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 8: in twenty fifteen. The White Lives Matter that we're talking

730
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 8: about today is a different formation entirely that utilizes sort

731
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 8: of the same slogan. They are a group that started

732
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 8: in like twenty twenty one and have been organizing primarily

733
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,320
Speaker 8: on telegram and have grown really rapidly across the country

734
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 8: of the years since.

735
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, like we can see the early use of this

736
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 7: phrase spread by you mentioned the National Socialist Movement, along

737
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 7: with a few other kind of collection of neo Nazis,

738
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 7: the Aryan Resistance Society and the Aryan Nationalist Alliance. But

739
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 7: then things kind of like died down. It was just

740
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 7: it was like a slogan you could see at rallies,

741
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,240
Speaker 7: but it wasn't it wasn't anything like too prominent, honestly.

742
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 7: But then we had this big second wave in twenty

743
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,479
Speaker 7: twenty one with Telegram channels promoting a White Lives Matter

744
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 7: march or a series of martians to be held across

745
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 7: the country on like April eleventh. This batch of rallies

746
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 7: were mostly a failure, in part due to the efforts

747
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 7: of anti fascists who worked disabotage the planning of these

748
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,720
Speaker 7: rallies ahead of time. Of the rallies that did eventually

749
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 7: take place, really only a handful of white supremacists showed

750
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:42,720
Speaker 7: up and most were outnumbered by anti fascist counter demonstrators.

751
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 7: So then after this initial event with these with this

752
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 7: like big batch of like of like channels on Telegram,

753
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 7: which is this like encrypted messaging platform based out of Russia.

754
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 7: It's not very good. Don't use it unless you're trying

755
00:36:55,719 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 7: to infiltrate a Nazi group. But after these like fail rallies,

756
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 7: White Lives Matter kind of turned into yet another one

757
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 7: of these networks for white supremacists and neo Nazis that

758
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 7: advocate quote unquote pro white activism. Typically this includes like

759
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 7: putting up white nationalists like stickers around neighborhoods, hanging large

760
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 7: banners with fascist rhetoric or Nazi imagery, flyering, and just

761
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 7: spreading propaganda online with the occasional like in person rally.

762
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 7: I think you can see kind of the peak of

763
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 7: like the White Lives Matter slogan, at least was when

764
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,439
Speaker 7: it was propagated to the degree that Kanye west Ward

765
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 7: on a T shirt during his little Nazi era back

766
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 7: in twenty twenty two. And I think now you see

767
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 7: White Lives Matter as like a network. It overlaps and

768
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 7: crosses over a lot with like similar groups like the

769
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 7: GDL that's the Going Defense League, as well as the

770
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 7: National Socialist Club and Patriot Front to some degree. I

771
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 7: guess one thing that I wanted to talk about is that,

772
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,280
Speaker 7: and this is mentioned in the Corvalis and TIFA article

773
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 7: on the organ chapter of White Lives Matter, is like

774
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 7: the idea of hiding your power level, which we used

775
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 7: to talk about it a little bit more. I think

776
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 7: in some ways a much Nazis kind of blew their

777
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,839
Speaker 7: cover back around twenty twenty, but now you see kind

778
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 7: of more attempts to try to seed a white nationalist

779
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 7: rhetoric into other kind of right wing spaces to push

780
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 7: them farther along that radicalization pathway. And I would like

781
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,280
Speaker 7: to have a discussion at least a little bit about

782
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:27,320
Speaker 7: how White Lives Matter specifically tries to hide their power level,

783
00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 7: like kind of disguise the level of like overt fascism

784
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 7: that they're really proposing by employing this like quote unquote

785
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:35,720
Speaker 7: like pro white rhetoric.

786
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 4: Yeah.

787
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 8: So White Lives Matter as a national organization is extremely

788
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 8: like conscious of what they would describe as like their optics.

789
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 8: They are very intent on like radicalizing who they perceive

790
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 8: to be everyday white people into sort of fascist politics.

791
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 8: And in their national level manuals and the materials that

792
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 8: they provide the leaders of statewide organizations, they specifically talk

793
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 8: about stuff like not displaying Nazi flags or using like

794
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 8: neo Nazi rhetoric despite that being what they believe. But

795
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 8: their sort of goal is to use more innocuous styles

796
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:16,320
Speaker 8: of sloganeering, like you know, the phrase like white lives

797
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 8: matter and protect white babies stuff like that as ways

798
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,320
Speaker 8: to kind of open the door to get people to

799
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 8: become interested in a more like overtly national socialist politic

800
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 8: that they can radicalize people to who like join their group.

801
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 8: And you see a lot of groups like Active Clubs,

802
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 8: Patriot Front, other sort of white nationalists formations using the

803
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,399
Speaker 8: national WL on the BORG as sort of a way

804
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 8: to recruit to their own organizations with this sort of

805
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 8: more innocuous, subtle style of propaganda.

806
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 7: Yeah, and like one other thing that's pointed out in

807
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,719
Speaker 7: the in the Crabalis and Tifa article is like they

808
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 7: don't just do agit prop, Like they're not just a

809
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 7: group that is composed of only doing stickering. There's been

810
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 7: multiple instances when their online propaganda as well as their

811
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 7: like in person stickering, escalates to real to real violence.

812
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 7: Last year, a twenty eight year old from New Jersey

813
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 7: attacked an anti racism concert at a church. He yelled

814
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 7: White Lives Matter at attendees, threw smoke pomps at the church,

815
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 7: and then tried to bear spray the crowd, think inadvertently

816
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 7: bear sprague himself, which he then recorded a video talking

817
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 7: about and posted online. Later in air, fifteen and high

818
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 7: capacity magazines were found in his home alongside White Lives

819
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:36,319
Speaker 7: Matter propaganda, and later that year, a twenty year old

820
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 7: male associated with White Lives Matter firebombed a church in Ohio,

821
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 7: and the church was picked as a target because it

822
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 7: planned to host two drag events. After being arrested, police

823
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 7: found six firearms and dozens of loaded magazines alongside Nazi paraphernalia.

824
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 7: This guy also wrote a manifestor defending his actions and

825
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 7: specifically stating that he was happy about it because people

826
00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 7: online were proud of him. And you can even go

827
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 7: back to the White Lives Matter rallies back in twenty

828
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 7: twenty one, especially the one in Huntington Beach which saw

829
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 7: a degree of physical violence. It's important not just not

830
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,440
Speaker 7: to just write these groups off as being like, oh,

831
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 7: they only do banner drops, oh they only do stickers,

832
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,799
Speaker 7: because not only is like propaganda really important part of

833
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 7: growing the number of them out there, but they also

834
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:20,480
Speaker 7: do real world violence.

835
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 8: It's also important to talk about like the ways that

836
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 8: WLM is organizationally connected to like more like scary elements

837
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 8: of the neo Nazi right. Recently, Left Coast Right Watch

838
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,240
Speaker 8: published proof that Matthew Allison, who was one of the

839
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 8: leaders of the Terrogram collective who was recently arrested, was

840
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 8: responsible for some of the national WLM like propaganda that

841
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 8: they published, which is quite concerning. So you know, even

842
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 8: these groups that are more movementarian than nature and are

843
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 8: trying to appeal to you know, you know more quote

844
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:58,359
Speaker 8: unquote nor me white people are like directly in bed

845
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 8: with people who are like as scene with mass shooters and.

846
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:06,919
Speaker 7: Like terrorists yep, specifically try to like groom people into

847
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 7: becoming mass shooters. Yes, I mean, and like that's why

848
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 7: I think specifically with both these guys who did physical violence,

849
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 7: you can see violence as like it as like an

850
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,359
Speaker 7: escalatory thing for the person who's like doing it right,

851
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 7: you start off with throwing am al top cocktail, and

852
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 7: then later you might do a mass shooting. It's like

853
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 7: a testing ground. You can see the same thing with

854
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 7: you know, bear macing and anti racism concert. The fact

855
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,919
Speaker 7: that both these guys, specifically the one in Ohio had

856
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 7: like a lot a lot of guns, and like we're

857
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,839
Speaker 7: in America, there's a lot of guns around, but having

858
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,520
Speaker 7: that many guns and loaded magazines in Ohio as a

859
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 7: twenty year old with all that Nazi paraphernalia like that,

860
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 7: that is what a Nazi mass shooter's like bedroom looks like.

861
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 7: And these are not like isolated incidents. I guess let's

862
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:52,240
Speaker 7: let's take a bit of a break and we will

863
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 7: come back to talk about specifically the organ chapter of

864
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 7: White Lives Matter and what they've been getting up to

865
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 7: the past few months. All Right, So, after Krela Santifa

866
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 7: leaked like chatlogs from the organ White Lives Matter group

867
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 7: back in twenty twenty one, the chapter went to dormant,

868
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 7: and then it restarted earlier this year. I guess, Alex,

869
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 7: can you walk us through kind of the rebirth of

870
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 7: White Lives Matter Oregon.

871
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,240
Speaker 8: Yeah, So, the way that WOLM works as a national

872
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 8: organization is there's like a series of groups that all

873
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 8: kind of are extant, like they there are groups, and

874
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 8: then people would like apply to be with the national

875
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:41,480
Speaker 8: org to be like a leader of a state group.

876
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 8: So back when w OLM initially began as a thing

877
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 8: in twenty twenty one, our group was running the Oregon

878
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,240
Speaker 8: chapter and exposed several people who tried to join that group,

879
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:58,640
Speaker 8: and then after that like interest in that organization became

880
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 8: it stopped existing for several years.

881
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:03,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

882
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 8: Then earlier this year we noticed that somebody had taken

883
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 8: over the chapter and had started engaging in some stickering

884
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 8: and some propaganda. So we were like, well, you know,

885
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 8: we may as well join this group and see what's up.

886
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 8: So we infiltrated the organization, gathered information about the membership,

887
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 8: and published that information online in order to warn the

888
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 8: communities that these guys in habit about their activities. The group,

889
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 8: you know, was doing stuff that was not like extremely intense,

890
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 8: like they were doing stickers, they did two banner drops

891
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 8: or three banner drops successfully rather But in their chat

892
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 8: we also found that they were talking a lot about

893
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 8: like you know, military training and escalating and you know,

894
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 8: even though this group kind of like seemed very low

895
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 8: key and was like not doing anything, you know, super scary, like,

896
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:02,840
Speaker 8: the stuff they're talking about is concerning, and they're getting

897
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 8: organized and they're getting to know each other. So we

898
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 8: put a kibosh on that.

899
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,919
Speaker 7: So it looks like, according to a research the new

900
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 7: leader is this guy named Cruz. Dean Walters.

901
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, so Cruz is marine kind of wash out

902
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 8: who lives in McMinnville, Oregon. Until very recently was living

903
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 8: a double life. He was living with his mom and

904
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 8: his fiance, neither of who knew about his racist beliefs

905
00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 8: and now knew he was a highly incompetent leader who

906
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:38,240
Speaker 8: you know, really had a tremendous number of security flaws

907
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 8: in his organization, you know, as is evidenced by the

908
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 8: fact that we were able to you know, infiltrate and

909
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,320
Speaker 8: destroy it in a matter of just a few months.

910
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 8: But you know, it is worth noting that, like the

911
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 8: group grew from just a handful of people to you know,

912
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 8: doing banner drops with like, you know, six or seven

913
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 8: folks in just a couple, you know, a couple of

914
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 8: short months. Like, even though these groups can kind of

915
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 8: be benign, if there winds up being somebody who is

916
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 8: like particularly passed it behind the channel, like, they can

917
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:14,399
Speaker 8: transform into something less benign very very quickly. And that's

918
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 8: something we want to impart to other anti fascists across

919
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 8: the country, is there are all these channels and they

920
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 8: might be seen in kind of like benign now, but

921
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,760
Speaker 8: they can turn into something very malignant very quickly.

922
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 7: I wanted to ask specifically about Cruise's radicalization. It's written

923
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 7: in your piece that he was radicalized in part by

924
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 7: the GDL, the Going Defense League, and participated in the

925
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 7: city council desk squads, as reported by our own Molly Conger,

926
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:43,839
Speaker 7: and then just seemingly like just getting bored of just

927
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 7: calling into city council meetings to Yelsler's he then like

928
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:51,919
Speaker 7: coued the organization. So I'm curious if he ever wrote

929
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 7: about or talked about his background with the GDL and

930
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 7: his like apparent boredom at their particular style of like

931
00:46:57,960 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 7: a white supremacist activism.

932
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 8: Yeah, so he, I think was just kind of like

933
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 8: sitting on the internet as like a fucking, you know, dorky, lonely,

934
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 8: sad little man, and you know, got into the GDL.

935
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 8: For those who have the fortune of not knowing, the

936
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 8: GDL is sort of this network of like really grotesque,

937
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 8: highly cringey racist Twitch streamers or not on Twitch anymore,

938
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 8: but like you know there's streamers.

939
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 4: Nonetheless, they've been banned from Twitch. But yeah, but.

940
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 8: Yeah, so they have this program called the City Council

941
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 8: Death Squad where they will like call into like your

942
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 8: local city council meeting and just like yellow slurs at

943
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 8: the bleeder municipal employees that have to sit and watch.

944
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 8: They did one Corvalis and like watching the footage was

945
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 8: just like watching like these like grown men acting like children,

946
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 8: like you know, hollering at like random like city councilor

947
00:47:56,200 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 8: twenty three or whatever. It's really like pathetic. So I think,

948
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 8: you know, Cruse kind of saw that and many do

949
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 8: you know, the GDL is just a tremendously fucking pathetic organization.

950
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 8: And he was like kind of decided that he wanted

951
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 8: to get more involved, and he chose to get involved

952
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 8: with WLM as opposed to like another neo Nazi formation

953
00:48:16,239 --> 00:48:20,240
Speaker 8: because WLM is like a really really easy entry point

954
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,320
Speaker 8: and has a very like, you know, kind of base politic.

955
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 8: It's not like you know, Patriot Front or an active

956
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:29,439
Speaker 8: club where there are you know, membership requirements and you

957
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 8: have to engage in certain amounts of organizing activity or whatever.

958
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 8: It's just very easy for you know, your lazy Nazi

959
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 8: to engage with.

960
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 10: Yeah.

961
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 7: Absolutely, it definitely feels like the lazy person's option who

962
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:42,240
Speaker 7: doesn't want to go through the work of being vetted

963
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 7: by like actual, like larger organizations.

964
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,279
Speaker 8: Yeah, and he he took over the chapter from an

965
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:52,800
Speaker 8: even lazier Nazi named Christian Coats who lives in Portland, Orion,

966
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 8: who is like this old school bonehead from the two

967
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 8: thousands who like has some hate crime charges from like

968
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 8: I think like attempting to and failing to assault some

969
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 8: black teams in like two thousand and seven. So Christian

970
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 8: had in the interceding years between us destroying the initial

971
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,800
Speaker 8: iteration of w Olm taking it over and basically done

972
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 8: like zilch with it. He posts like one photo on

973
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 8: the channel. Ever, but then he got taken over by

974
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 8: this dude Cruise, who grew the organization from like just

975
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:26,800
Speaker 8: a few people to you know, being a reasonable street

976
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 8: presence in a short number of months, obviously at the

977
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 8: expense of including an anti fascist infiltrator, and you know,

978
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 8: also just a true coterie of scumbags and idiots in

979
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:41,280
Speaker 8: the in the group.

980
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

981
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 7: One of the other guys that you've identified is I

982
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:46,480
Speaker 7: don't know how to say his last name, but Casey

983
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:47,760
Speaker 7: I want to say Nutson.

984
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:50,280
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, Casey Knutson, who.

985
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 7: After being kicked out of both the Proud Boys and

986
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 7: Patriot Front, made his own group in twenty twenty two,

987
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,200
Speaker 7: the Rose City Nationalists, which is kind of the laughing

988
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 7: stock of all white pharmacist groups in the PNW, and

989
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 7: the group has the group has largely fallen apart after

990
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 7: being just extensively investigated and exposed by local antie fascists

991
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 7: almost to a comical extent.

992
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, ourselves, Rose City Antifa and the Stufftown Research Collective

993
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 8: have been kind of going through and just you know,

994
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 8: ripping apart. RCN and RCIEN is at this point more

995
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:27,720
Speaker 8: or less just Casey and this fella named Jared Huber

996
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:31,520
Speaker 8: who is an absolute like freak. He's got a bunch

997
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:35,040
Speaker 8: of tattoos all over his face. He was arrested for

998
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 8: kicking a puppy nearly to death and beating up his grandfather.

999
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 8: Just real scumbag.

1000
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:41,680
Speaker 4: Jesus Christ.

1001
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:45,200
Speaker 8: Yeah, they all have like domestic violence charges and you know.

1002
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 4: Are just yes.

1003
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 8: Real nightmare folks. The funniest thing about Rose City Nationalists

1004
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 8: is they gotten this conflict with the Proud Boys that

1005
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 8: I believe it was in Oregon City where they got

1006
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 8: just absolutely washed by some drunken Proud Boys on the street.

1007
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 8: Not because of like ideological issues, but just because they

1008
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:09,319
Speaker 8: like have you know, interpersonal issues between Casey and the

1009
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 8: Portland chapter of the Proud Boys.

1010
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 6: It was.

1011
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,400
Speaker 8: You know, they are truly just a laughing stock and

1012
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 8: are just like you know, I hate to use the term,

1013
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:18,439
Speaker 8: but kind of like locals at this point.

1014
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 7: No, I mean and one thing that you do, like

1015
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:24,759
Speaker 7: document is just how many of these guys are like

1016
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:28,239
Speaker 7: domestic abusers, and like this is not uncommon for like

1017
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:31,880
Speaker 7: these types of fellows. But also Cruise like both admitted

1018
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 7: to stealing a gun and also abusing his wife and

1019
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 7: threatening other family with firearms. And this is like a

1020
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 7: trend across as so many of the people exposed in

1021
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:44,279
Speaker 7: these articles. Is the extent to which they're all in

1022
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,880
Speaker 7: viewed in like disposal abuse, child abuse. It's it's just

1023
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 7: it's one of the very consistent factors.

1024
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:53,919
Speaker 8: Yeah, misogyny is you know, one of the very very

1025
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 8: core parts of neo Nazism and white nationalism. And yeah,

1026
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 8: there's a really really horrible like section of texts in

1027
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:06,359
Speaker 8: art article that where Cruz discusses like physically hitting his

1028
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 8: fiance and then threatening his brother with a firearm. And yeah,

1029
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 8: it's really really common that these people have domestic abuse charges.

1030
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 8: Multiple people in w lam Oregon have histories of domestic abuse,

1031
00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 8: including Jaron Huber and Casey Knutson, who are the two

1032
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 8: other members. And yeah, it's just anytime you look at

1033
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 8: a Nazi group, there's a dude who beats his wife,

1034
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 8: and it like kind of barn On. As long as

1035
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 8: we've been doing this work, we've been seeing it.

1036
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:34,280
Speaker 7: I'd like to talk now about the second in command

1037
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 7: of White Lives Matter Oregon, this small business owner in

1038
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:42,839
Speaker 7: Couse Bay named Michael Witt Gaiton Byne who usually just

1039
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 7: goes by Wit. Now, Witt has been a part of

1040
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:48,800
Speaker 7: the White Lives Matter Oregon banner drops, and that was

1041
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:52,160
Speaker 7: also responsible for a lot of the stickering that gets

1042
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 7: done as he leaves stickers across the truck stop bathrooms

1043
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 7: up and down the coast. Now, WIT's kind of a

1044
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 7: fascinating fellow to me. He has shockingly bad op SEC,

1045
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 7: kind of one of the worst examples I've ever seen.

1046
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:09,839
Speaker 7: His very easily recognized custom flatbed truck can be seen

1047
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:12,840
Speaker 7: at banner drops in August and it even appears in

1048
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:16,840
Speaker 7: their own like propaganda videos for another banner drop in September.

1049
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:19,920
Speaker 7: He like talked about his just like utter disregard for

1050
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:23,840
Speaker 7: off SEC in one of the audio archives that you

1051
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:26,759
Speaker 7: have hosted on left Goo's right watch, what else can

1052
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:28,839
Speaker 7: you tell us about kind of WIT's background here?

1053
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 9: Yeah, so what is a Nazi?

1054
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:35,719
Speaker 6: And I believe his mother is actually you know, he

1055
00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 6: said at one point his mother was like quote awakened.

1056
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:41,359
Speaker 9: To the truth about the Jews or something like that.

1057
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 6: So he seems to come from at the very least

1058
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 6: an anti Semitic family. But he himself is certainly a Nazi,

1059
00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 6: and I think he has believed he can operate with

1060
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 6: impunity in kous Bay. So I think it's less that

1061
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 6: he has bad op second, more believes he seems to

1062
00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:58,759
Speaker 6: think of himself as living in a world where it's

1063
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 6: okay to be a Nazi. Sure, we can talk a

1064
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 6: little bit more about that, but yeah, he runs a

1065
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 6: company called Wit Industries, which he's claimed does business from

1066
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 6: Mexico to Russia. He works in the marine, marine and

1067
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:14,280
Speaker 6: maritime industry within the Port of Kouz Bay and kous County.

1068
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,720
Speaker 6: We know that he's gotten about a quarter million dollars

1069
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:21,839
Speaker 6: in public contracts, primarily from the Port of kous Bay,

1070
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 6: but also the Port of Aumqua, the City of North Bend,

1071
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:27,800
Speaker 6: Kou's County, South Coast Education Service District.

1072
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 9: That's just what we've found so far.

1073
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 6: It can be pretty difficult to find, you know, even

1074
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:34,799
Speaker 6: though this is public money, it can still be sort

1075
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 6: of a pretty difficult process to get public records and

1076
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:37,839
Speaker 6: things like that.

1077
00:54:37,960 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 9: But you know, we know that the Port of kus Bay.

1078
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:45,320
Speaker 6: Alone has awarded him like two hundred nineteen thousand dollars

1079
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 6: in contracts for work ranging from hydraulics repairs and replacements

1080
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 6: on vessels on the bridge. He's also pained the state

1081
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 6: dredge and the trailer and things like that.

1082
00:54:57,160 --> 00:54:58,760
Speaker 9: You mentioned him using his work vehicle.

1083
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:00,880
Speaker 8: So he he has.

1084
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:03,440
Speaker 6: Stated, and this is from you know, information we have

1085
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:07,279
Speaker 6: from the Cornellis INTI for infiltration. He stated that part

1086
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:11,520
Speaker 6: of his goal is to build a white supremacist called

1087
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 6: in Coos Bay. He wants to get guys elected to

1088
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 6: mayor and city council and things like that. And he

1089
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:21,719
Speaker 6: actually was using White Lives Matter to recruit guys to

1090
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:24,279
Speaker 6: come and work for him. He was recruiting a guy

1091
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:27,719
Speaker 6: named wand And Calhoun, who is also an alleged pedophile.

1092
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:30,240
Speaker 6: And we go into in the left Colus Right Watch article,

1093
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 6: but if he got this alleged pedophile land In to

1094
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:34,920
Speaker 6: come and work for him, they met in White Lives

1095
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,879
Speaker 6: Matter and he said, hey, come work for an all

1096
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 6: white organization where we can come and build the movement together.

1097
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 9: And as far as we know, it does.

1098
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 6: Appear that Landon has moved there, who's planning to move

1099
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:48,920
Speaker 6: there in this fall, and we believe he's currently there.

1100
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1101
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:50,960
Speaker 7: I like to kind of go by some of these

1102
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:53,759
Speaker 7: points one by one because he's he's certainly like a

1103
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 7: worrying figure. The fact that he's using his income, which

1104
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:00,360
Speaker 7: is largely derived of government contracts, to like specif defictly,

1105
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 7: like fund white Ermas detectivity in the PNW, and like

1106
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 7: use his own company resources to grow the number of

1107
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:12,520
Speaker 7: far right extremists in cus Bay, specifically his plans of

1108
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:16,320
Speaker 7: like having them eventually like occupied positions of local government.

1109
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 7: It's a degree of like long term planning that isn't

1110
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 7: always present in some of these types of guys. You know,

1111
00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:24,799
Speaker 7: plans are one thing, but when you actually have a

1112
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 7: business that you are like hiring people to move to

1113
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 7: this town to like actually build this plan up, like,

1114
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 7: it shows a degree of hutspa. I guess on his

1115
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 7: part that he's actually like doing this. It kind of

1116
00:56:37,160 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 7: reminds me of the Rise Above movements tree trimming business,

1117
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 7: but that was just to pay bills. They had no

1118
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 7: plans to like slowly actually just like take over a

1119
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 7: small town. There's a lot of these businesses that are

1120
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 7: run by Nazis that primarily hire other Nazis. But the

1121
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:57,279
Speaker 7: degree to which that Michael wit Is is able to

1122
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:00,319
Speaker 7: operate without much oversight and just get get all of

1123
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:02,600
Speaker 7: this money from local government is certainly worrying.

1124
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:03,160
Speaker 3: I know.

1125
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:05,920
Speaker 7: He stated that one of his employees like prints out

1126
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 7: all of his White Lives Matter stickers and has gotten

1127
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:12,640
Speaker 7: help from employees to do one banner drop outside of Roseberg,

1128
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 7: and has a history of hiring far right people, conspiracy

1129
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:21,120
Speaker 7: theorists and like monetarily supporting them to like help them

1130
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:23,480
Speaker 7: continue their own far right activism.

1131
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:25,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, and you mentioned his employees that were printing the

1132
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 6: stickers for him. That was before he hired Landon, So yeah,

1133
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 6: he already has guys that are that are doing this

1134
00:57:31,720 --> 00:57:34,120
Speaker 6: and the port. I think it's important to point out

1135
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 6: that the point of cou'se bay, it's public body. The

1136
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 6: commissioners are elected by the governor and they're confirmed by

1137
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:44,040
Speaker 6: the organ Senate you know, or yeah, the Moorgan.

1138
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:44,640
Speaker 9: Senate, I believe it is.

1139
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:48,280
Speaker 6: So this is a state body that is giving state

1140
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:52,360
Speaker 6: funding to this Nazi and I think that's really important

1141
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:52,720
Speaker 6: to name.

1142
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 9: It's also like just to give people a.

1143
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:58,479
Speaker 6: Little bit of the geography, because it's a small town

1144
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 6: that actually geographically takes quite.

1145
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:04,320
Speaker 9: A while to like drive from North Bend to Coos Bay.

1146
00:58:04,400 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 6: And Witt lives right over by the Charleston Marina, and

1147
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:10,920
Speaker 6: we know he's pretty in bed with the marina folks.

1148
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 10: There.

1149
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:15,200
Speaker 6: There was a big organ Department of Transportation grant to

1150
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 6: the state level that the port had written that Wit

1151
00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:18,920
Speaker 6: would have been one of the.

1152
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 9: Like people making money. He was like written.

1153
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 6: Officially into this grant for it was a three point

1154
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:27,240
Speaker 6: five million dollar grant that.

1155
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 9: Wit was written into, right, so.

1156
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 4: They're like his friends, you know, like they're like, yeah.

1157
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 9: They're writing him into these grants. Witt's office is.

1158
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:37,120
Speaker 6: Over there on Ocean View Boulevard, which is right next

1159
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 6: to the Confenrated Tribes of Kuzler m Quan sayslaw Indians

1160
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 6: tribal housing office, and right next to one of their casinos.

1161
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 6: And just to give folks the terrain of where he's

1162
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:50,520
Speaker 6: living and kind of operate and too.

1163
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 7: Yeah, hello Garrison from the future, just to cutting in

1164
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:56,880
Speaker 7: to say something that Hank said, but I got a

1165
00:58:56,880 --> 00:58:59,360
Speaker 7: little bit garbled in the voice modulation. So I just

1166
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 7: want to stay at a little bit more clearly here,

1167
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 7: there's some other events that can help contextualize what WIT

1168
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:07,720
Speaker 7: is doing in Kuse Bay, because currently in Kous County

1169
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:11,120
Speaker 7: there's this sort of intense far right power grab that

1170
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 7: is slowly happening. Some people might know of this radio

1171
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:17,440
Speaker 7: host named Rob Taylor. He's said to be one of

1172
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:19,960
Speaker 7: the guys who coordinated the breaching of the Oregon Capital

1173
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 7: in late December, which was basically a test run for

1174
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:26,400
Speaker 7: January sixth, and he's hosted people with the far right

1175
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:29,360
Speaker 7: group Patriot Prayer. He has an old gab account which

1176
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 7: was essentially like Nazi Twitter before Twitter just became Nazi

1177
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 7: Twitter under Elon Musk. So this guy is like very

1178
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:39,720
Speaker 7: comfortable and associates with extremely far right people as well

1179
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:43,040
Speaker 7: as engaged in a level of activism in Oregon at least.

1180
00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:46,640
Speaker 7: So that's Rob Taylor, the radio guy. There's this other

1181
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 7: person named Rod Taylor who's a Kus County commissioner who

1182
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:54,440
Speaker 7: actually was a January sixth insurrectionist. He was arrested at

1183
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 7: the capitol on Jay six Now Michael went to Geitonbine

1184
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:02,400
Speaker 7: has also previously impled this guy named Matt Wilbanks who's

1185
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:05,320
Speaker 7: a buddy of Rob Taylor. He runs this blog called

1186
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 7: The Daily Resistor and also one of the kous County

1187
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:11,600
Speaker 7: neighborhood watch groups in the Empire District of cous Bay,

1188
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 7: which is mostly just focused on like doxing and harassing

1189
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:19,600
Speaker 7: homeless people. And these guys are also part of various

1190
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:23,640
Speaker 7: mega groups like Citizens Restoring Liberty, and Wit himself is

1191
01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 7: a part of this network. He has attended Citizens Restoring

1192
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:30,040
Speaker 7: Liberty events. He's also an admin on a Telegram channel

1193
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 7: called the organ Patriot Alliance, which is like this mega

1194
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 7: patriots organizing channel on Telegram. Nominally, these mega types typically

1195
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 7: say that they are, you know, not for Nazis, They

1196
01:00:42,120 --> 01:00:45,320
Speaker 7: are against Nazis, they are against pedophiles, and yet they

1197
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:49,320
Speaker 7: are associating with Wit here who employs a pedophile and

1198
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 7: is a Nazi. But one other thing that Hank said

1199
01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 7: that I want to reiter rate is that Kuspe is

1200
01:00:56,080 --> 01:01:00,280
Speaker 7: also a contested space. Although there is this intensely far

1201
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 7: right power graph happening, there's also a whole bunch of

1202
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:07,480
Speaker 7: other much more positive activism. Hank pointed to the tribal

1203
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:11,160
Speaker 7: communities of fighting for Indigenous sovereignty as well as environmentalist

1204
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 7: groups calling bs on the port's greenwashing of all their projects.

1205
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:18,720
Speaker 7: So it's not just that like everyone's Nazis now in

1206
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:21,680
Speaker 7: Cuse Bay. Yes, Wit is a Nazi and people should

1207
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:24,440
Speaker 7: be concerned about that, but it is a contested space

1208
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:27,600
Speaker 7: home to a diverse group of people who are also

1209
01:01:27,880 --> 01:01:30,360
Speaker 7: fighting for good things. We're now going to have an

1210
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 7: ad break and then return to talk more about White

1211
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 7: Lives Matter Oregon. Okay, we are back, and uh, Alex,

1212
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:48,840
Speaker 7: you said you wanted to add something on this point

1213
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 7: about Toose Bay being a contested space.

1214
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1215
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:54,720
Speaker 8: I think one thing that is important to just like

1216
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:58,120
Speaker 8: throw onto what Hank is saying about Who's Bay as

1217
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:03,200
Speaker 8: a contested space is like it's not entirely unheard of

1218
01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 8: for neo Nazis to kind of try to do these

1219
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 8: projects of like moving a bunch of people to certain

1220
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 8: usually rural areas to you know, try to take them over,

1221
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 8: you know, most notably like Leaf, North Dakota, where Crane

1222
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:19,880
Speaker 8: Com tried to take over. But well, I think has

1223
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 8: been shown really repeatedly is that these projects have failed

1224
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 8: because the communities that live there, you know, even if

1225
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:30,840
Speaker 8: they're rural communities, even if they're small towns, don't have

1226
01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:33,000
Speaker 8: it and are willing to fight back. And that's what

1227
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:36,320
Speaker 8: we're really hoping to see from folks on the Oregon

1228
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:39,640
Speaker 8: South coast being willing to push back against this sort

1229
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:42,120
Speaker 8: of thing like was done in Leaf and you know,

1230
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:45,720
Speaker 8: forcing these people out of the institutions they're trying to inhabit.

1231
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:49,320
Speaker 7: Yeah, and especially with someone like Michael here, because he's

1232
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:53,200
Speaker 7: like hiring people who advocate going much farther than white

1233
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:56,760
Speaker 7: lives matter to actually engage in like paramilitary training, hiring

1234
01:02:56,800 --> 01:02:59,960
Speaker 7: someone who is like not just accused of being a pedophile,

1235
01:03:00,080 --> 01:03:02,200
Speaker 7: but has admitted to Michael that his family like hates

1236
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:04,160
Speaker 7: him because of an allegation that he's that he's touched

1237
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:08,800
Speaker 7: someone and that Michael himself witnessed this guy Calhoun being

1238
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:11,600
Speaker 7: quote unquote hands on with an eight year old girl

1239
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:14,480
Speaker 7: while while they were meeting together in Cuspe. There's like

1240
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 7: that side of it. And then you have him like

1241
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 7: posting on telegram about like wanting the day of the

1242
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:22,120
Speaker 7: rope to come faster, kind of like an old like

1243
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 7: Nazi slogan about like racial like lynchings and like furthering

1244
01:03:26,040 --> 01:03:29,040
Speaker 7: racial conflict as well as like sharing instructions from the

1245
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:33,400
Speaker 7: meme Woffen telegram channel about how to make Maltov cocktails.

1246
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:36,600
Speaker 7: I believe we've talked about Meme Waffen on the show before.

1247
01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:38,920
Speaker 7: So he's like doing all of this type of stuff

1248
01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:42,160
Speaker 7: that's like so much more obviously objectionable, while also trying

1249
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:44,680
Speaker 7: to like make like space for himself within like the

1250
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 7: mega community, right being the admin of this organ Patriots

1251
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:51,080
Speaker 7: Alliance telegram channel, which is like also an attempt just

1252
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:53,760
Speaker 7: to like further the radicalization of these like mega centric

1253
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 7: members by like inundating them with more explicit kind of

1254
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:00,520
Speaker 7: fascistic propaganda, but on like a slow level.

1255
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:01,840
Speaker 4: And then there are.

1256
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:05,280
Speaker 7: Multi million and multi billion dollar government projects to improve

1257
01:04:05,320 --> 01:04:08,720
Speaker 7: the port that is expected to receive funds from. And

1258
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:11,040
Speaker 7: I feel like this is something that's pretty pretty objectionable

1259
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,200
Speaker 7: and it should be easy to stop, but it requires

1260
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:16,240
Speaker 7: like attention and it requires a degree of public pressure

1261
01:04:16,680 --> 01:04:19,200
Speaker 7: to make sure that the government, both state and federal,

1262
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:23,160
Speaker 7: are not giving funds to like an explicit neo Nazi

1263
01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:26,720
Speaker 7: who hires alleged pedophiles to fund like right wing activism

1264
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:28,520
Speaker 7: across the Pacific Northwest.

1265
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:30,160
Speaker 9: Yeah, totally.

1266
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:32,240
Speaker 6: And I think it's important to point out too, like

1267
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 6: you know, kus Bay is in this process. They have

1268
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:38,120
Speaker 6: the intermodal Port of Kus Bay, which is like a

1269
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:41,280
Speaker 6: two point three billion dollar project where they want to

1270
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:43,400
Speaker 6: become like, you know, they want to be as big

1271
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:46,880
Speaker 6: of a port as Oakland, California or whatever. And you know,

1272
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:50,840
Speaker 6: one of the things, I mean, my understanding from talking

1273
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:53,240
Speaker 6: to folks in Cuz Bay is that it's just greenwashed

1274
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:56,520
Speaker 6: capitalism that will be destructive to the environment.

1275
01:04:56,600 --> 01:04:59,000
Speaker 9: It won't actually bring the community the.

1276
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:02,400
Speaker 6: Kind of like are like what about bike lanes, you know,

1277
01:05:02,560 --> 01:05:05,280
Speaker 6: like there's like community infrastructure people want in cus Bay

1278
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:09,160
Speaker 6: and dredging the port is not that, you know.

1279
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:12,400
Speaker 9: And I think there's also like a couple of examples

1280
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:12,880
Speaker 9: of that is it.

1281
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:15,880
Speaker 6: Will destroy eel grass, which is a really important marine

1282
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:19,400
Speaker 6: habitat and also source of storage carbon. It will destroy

1283
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 6: indigenous cultural resources or impact those spaces. And you know,

1284
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:27,880
Speaker 6: we haven't seen the exact financials yet for what this

1285
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:30,600
Speaker 6: project will be, but it's a two point three billion

1286
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:33,400
Speaker 6: dollar project that involves dredging, you know, which is sort

1287
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:35,640
Speaker 6: of deepening and widening.

1288
01:05:35,160 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 9: The port and the channels.

1289
01:05:37,000 --> 01:05:39,800
Speaker 6: And we know that Witt has gotten money, for example,

1290
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:42,640
Speaker 6: to work on the state dredge and do work on

1291
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:46,000
Speaker 6: it so I think it's very possible that wit would

1292
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:48,440
Speaker 6: be until the Port takes the stand and says, hey,

1293
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:51,760
Speaker 6: we're not funding this nazi who uses his work truck

1294
01:05:52,240 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 6: to do Nazi stuff. I think people should be really

1295
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:59,680
Speaker 6: concerned about this port money going back to help build

1296
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:02,760
Speaker 6: or not community that he's trying to build there.

1297
01:06:03,480 --> 01:06:05,720
Speaker 7: Yeah, and like to your previous point, like the fact

1298
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:07,960
Speaker 7: that he's able to be so flagrant about his white

1299
01:06:07,960 --> 01:06:09,920
Speaker 7: supremacist beliefs, the way that he doesn't feel like he

1300
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:12,360
Speaker 7: needs to care about OPSEC because he has a job

1301
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:15,120
Speaker 7: that's like irreplaceable, Like he provides a service to this

1302
01:06:15,160 --> 01:06:16,880
Speaker 7: community that he feels like no one else can do.

1303
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:20,440
Speaker 7: Therefore he is secure in that, Like you can't allow

1304
01:06:20,520 --> 01:06:23,120
Speaker 7: them that level of comfortability, and that's something that has

1305
01:06:23,160 --> 01:06:26,040
Speaker 7: to be like opposed due to both like public pressure

1306
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:28,960
Speaker 7: and research that like you have done, as well as

1307
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:31,720
Speaker 7: the crucial work from corbetto Sentiva.

1308
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:34,800
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, I think just to add to like,

1309
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:38,080
Speaker 6: like groups like the Organ's Bay Area, which is like

1310
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:40,160
Speaker 6: a popular Facebook group has been doing a really great

1311
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:41,480
Speaker 6: job like raising.

1312
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:43,920
Speaker 9: Just talking about and what's going on.

1313
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:49,280
Speaker 6: I think largely we really haven't seen much response from

1314
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:52,960
Speaker 6: the Port of Cosbe or the governor who's confirming these commissioners,

1315
01:06:52,960 --> 01:06:57,000
Speaker 6: Like largely the sort of institutions of power are not

1316
01:06:57,080 --> 01:07:00,120
Speaker 6: yet responding, and so I think that's something that with

1317
01:07:00,320 --> 01:07:04,080
Speaker 6: local folks in KUSBEI could be pressuring. And also at

1318
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:06,400
Speaker 6: a statewide level, right Like this is state funding and

1319
01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:08,919
Speaker 6: the Port of Caussebae development has.

1320
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:09,800
Speaker 9: Federal funding too.

1321
01:07:10,280 --> 01:07:13,680
Speaker 6: But I think those are places where where there could

1322
01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:15,880
Speaker 6: really be a lot more pressure being applied, and I

1323
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:18,360
Speaker 6: think a lot more people should be talking about all

1324
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:19,000
Speaker 6: of this as well.

1325
01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:20,160
Speaker 9: As we mentioned earlier.

1326
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:26,120
Speaker 6: You know, WIT claims to have a reputation and work

1327
01:07:26,160 --> 01:07:28,960
Speaker 6: and contracts all up and down the entire West coast.

1328
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 6: So certainly if there are listeners in here in Oakland

1329
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:34,040
Speaker 6: or Alaska or Washington.

1330
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:36,080
Speaker 9: Or wherever you might be who know the name.

1331
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:38,200
Speaker 6: With GAT and Bne or WIT Industries and you want

1332
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:41,400
Speaker 6: to send in a tip to Cornella's Antifa or whatever

1333
01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:44,320
Speaker 6: Marco's right watch, we would be really happy to hear

1334
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:46,920
Speaker 6: what you know about this guy, because we know we

1335
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:50,760
Speaker 6: know he's working in other communities. We we would love

1336
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:52,520
Speaker 6: details or any tips folks might have.

1337
01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:54,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, would either of you like to kind of add

1338
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:55,320
Speaker 4: anything else?

1339
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:58,120
Speaker 7: Before we close out and point to people towards both

1340
01:07:58,160 --> 01:07:59,240
Speaker 7: your work and where to send.

1341
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:02,840
Speaker 8: Yeah, I guess the thing that I would just close

1342
01:08:02,840 --> 01:08:07,440
Speaker 8: out with is WLM is not just an organ problem,

1343
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:10,920
Speaker 8: it's a national problem. I know, this podcast reaches folks

1344
01:08:10,960 --> 01:08:14,720
Speaker 8: all across the country. If you are somebody who is

1345
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:18,439
Speaker 8: Antifa curious or is interested in making a difference in

1346
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:22,040
Speaker 8: your community, it's a group with really terrible security culture,

1347
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:24,840
Speaker 8: and it might be worth taking a gander at that.

1348
01:08:25,080 --> 01:08:28,160
Speaker 8: And then, you know, God, it feels so silly to

1349
01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:30,800
Speaker 8: do a podcast plug, but please check out our work

1350
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:34,200
Speaker 8: at CV antifa dot no blogs dot org. We're also

1351
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:39,080
Speaker 8: on Twitter at CV against fash and Instagram at cv Antifa,

1352
01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:42,240
Speaker 8: and you know, we have lots of articles exposing neo

1353
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:46,320
Speaker 8: Nazis in Oregon and across the country, and you might

1354
01:08:46,360 --> 01:08:48,559
Speaker 8: just find somebody in your community who sucks.

1355
01:08:49,080 --> 01:08:51,880
Speaker 6: Thank Yeah, I'll just add you know, if you want

1356
01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:54,960
Speaker 6: to see the of course, the LEFTUS Right Watch article

1357
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:57,679
Speaker 6: gives a really deep dive on what and also information

1358
01:08:57,760 --> 01:08:58,640
Speaker 6: for public.

1359
01:08:58,400 --> 01:09:01,200
Speaker 9: Use has posted like the financials, so if you.

1360
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:04,040
Speaker 6: Really want to like get into the numbers, it's worth

1361
01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:06,280
Speaker 6: looking there. And yeah, just to reiterate, I mean, I

1362
01:09:06,280 --> 01:09:09,200
Speaker 6: think kus Bay and so many other places are really

1363
01:09:09,240 --> 01:09:12,519
Speaker 6: contested spaces, and I think these Nazis want us to

1364
01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:16,840
Speaker 6: believe that they're in charge and that they're powerful, and

1365
01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:20,120
Speaker 6: they have this idea that they can operate with impunity,

1366
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:23,120
Speaker 6: and it's really not true. Like we've seen small and

1367
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:26,720
Speaker 6: rural towns take down Nazis all over this country, and

1368
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:29,360
Speaker 6: I think that will continue. And I think that, yeah,

1369
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:33,599
Speaker 6: like what tactics in ways people might do that from

1370
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:36,040
Speaker 6: place to place can look different, but I just you know,

1371
01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:39,599
Speaker 6: encourage folks to dig into your local Nazis and get

1372
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:42,680
Speaker 6: together and figure out how to how to mess them up,

1373
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:44,720
Speaker 6: you know. And it's a it's a good way to

1374
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 6: have fun with your friends and uh and we can

1375
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:49,160
Speaker 6: do it, you know, and and we need we need

1376
01:09:49,200 --> 01:09:50,760
Speaker 6: to be doing it. I mean, there just shouldn't be

1377
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:55,400
Speaker 6: state money going to help a Nazi build a white

1378
01:09:55,439 --> 01:09:58,559
Speaker 6: supremacist utopia. I mean, that's the that's the history of

1379
01:09:58,600 --> 01:10:00,200
Speaker 6: this country, right, Like, that's the history.

1380
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:04,519
Speaker 7: Colonization, that's the history of Oregon specifically. So yeah, it's

1381
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:06,200
Speaker 7: a time to do something else.

1382
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:09,920
Speaker 8: Yeah, And Antifa isn't just for you big city folk,

1383
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:13,240
Speaker 8: you know, those must live in rural communities can and

1384
01:10:13,360 --> 01:10:16,960
Speaker 8: should be involved in these struggles, and it is something

1385
01:10:17,000 --> 01:10:20,400
Speaker 8: that like is not just something that happens in Portland.

1386
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:22,439
Speaker 9: People in rural orient are.

1387
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:25,720
Speaker 8: Doing anti fascism and will continue to do it and

1388
01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:26,559
Speaker 8: will continue to win.

1389
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:28,280
Speaker 4: Thank you both so much.

1390
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:31,800
Speaker 7: I will leave links to your orgs and your and

1391
01:10:31,840 --> 01:10:34,280
Speaker 7: your articles in the description below. Thank you for listening.

1392
01:10:34,280 --> 01:10:37,040
Speaker 7: And yeah, if you are antifa curious, give it a shot.

1393
01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:38,400
Speaker 7: It is indeed fun.

1394
01:10:59,240 --> 01:11:04,760
Speaker 2: What Brett my cavanaughs. I'm Robert Evans, and this is

1395
01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:08,240
Speaker 2: it could happen here? A podcast about it happening here

1396
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:12,280
Speaker 2: with me today is Sophie Lichterman and Mia Wong. We're

1397
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:14,960
Speaker 2: going to be talking about a guy who is near

1398
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:16,680
Speaker 2: and dear to my heart because the second to the

1399
01:11:16,720 --> 01:11:19,080
Speaker 2: last conversation I ever had with my mom was about

1400
01:11:19,080 --> 01:11:21,759
Speaker 2: Brett Kavanaugh. Mia, what are we gonna learn today?

1401
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:22,080
Speaker 4: Oh?

1402
01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:27,280
Speaker 1: Boy, God, have you done the what's breading my Kavanaugh before?

1403
01:11:27,360 --> 01:11:27,439
Speaker 7: Like?

1404
01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:30,120
Speaker 2: I'm certain I haven't. Why would I have?

1405
01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:36,080
Speaker 4: I don't know if I oddly familiar? So if he has,

1406
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:37,559
Speaker 4: somebody let me know. Thank you.

1407
01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:38,720
Speaker 10: Yeah.

1408
01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:40,000
Speaker 4: Tell us the good and the bad.

1409
01:11:40,439 --> 01:11:44,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, we already know the ugly. Yeah, I'm body shaming

1410
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:46,560
Speaker 2: Brett Kavanaugh. Yeah that's right, motherfucker.

1411
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:52,760
Speaker 4: That's right, motherfucker. The worst thing he consequences he's ever

1412
01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:55,479
Speaker 4: going to suffer are this bad news cycle and me

1413
01:11:55,960 --> 01:11:59,080
Speaker 4: saying something that's not legally defamatory, and if he wants

1414
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:00,760
Speaker 4: to fucking prove it, you could sue me over it.

1415
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:04,000
Speaker 2: He has a sweet gig for life. Yeah, he's set,

1416
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:04,880
Speaker 2: is set, bro.

1417
01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:09,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, he sucks so bad that even like you know,

1418
01:12:11,160 --> 01:12:14,519
Speaker 1: Midwest dads hate him, so at least there's that.

1419
01:12:15,080 --> 01:12:18,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's he's really rad sid And so I think

1420
01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:19,880
Speaker 4: I think the place to start with this actually is

1421
01:12:19,880 --> 01:12:22,200
Speaker 4: not with Kavanaugh, but with Trump, because what we're talking

1422
01:12:22,200 --> 01:12:25,639
Speaker 4: about today is a thing that we kind of knew

1423
01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:28,000
Speaker 4: was true but didn't know the extent of until now,

1424
01:12:28,520 --> 01:12:32,280
Speaker 4: which is that the supposed FBI investigation into everything that

1425
01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:37,639
Speaker 4: Brett Kavanaugh did was like fake and deliberately fucked by

1426
01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:41,080
Speaker 4: Trump specifically, Like this is Trump specifically told them to

1427
01:12:41,120 --> 01:12:43,240
Speaker 4: just like not do the investigation, and so they didn't

1428
01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:46,679
Speaker 4: do the investigation and nothing happened. This is the sort

1429
01:12:46,680 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 4: of how we got confirmed. And I think the interesting

1430
01:12:49,479 --> 01:12:51,360
Speaker 4: thing about this, partially it's because I hate breck Capital.

1431
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:54,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, he sucks the worst guy, a real dick.

1432
01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:57,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, But I think the everything about him is like

1433
01:12:57,720 --> 01:13:00,120
Speaker 4: I feel like everyone has forgotten what it was like

1434
01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:04,639
Speaker 4: to live under Trump. I agree, because there was just

1435
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:08,519
Speaker 4: so much shit happening all the time, Like every single

1436
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:11,240
Speaker 4: every single day was like a new one of these things.

1437
01:13:11,280 --> 01:13:13,360
Speaker 4: And I want to go back to what like one

1438
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:17,639
Speaker 4: week of Trump was like, because every single fucking week

1439
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:20,639
Speaker 4: was like this, and it was the most miserable thing.

1440
01:13:21,400 --> 01:13:25,519
Speaker 4: So who is Brett Kavanaugh. He's one of the nine

1441
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:28,000
Speaker 4: assholes who get to decide whether we all have rights

1442
01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:31,040
Speaker 4: for people who've sort of forgotten his background. So he's

1443
01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:35,559
Speaker 4: like an old old like nineties era, kind of like

1444
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:38,720
Speaker 4: protege of the nineties Republican gruls. He's like one of

1445
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:40,960
Speaker 4: the people who helps Ken Starr do the like Monica

1446
01:13:41,040 --> 01:13:44,519
Speaker 4: Lewinsky trial. Like he's he's involved in a whole bunch

1447
01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:46,960
Speaker 4: of sort of like Republican rat fucking operations. He's also

1448
01:13:47,000 --> 01:13:49,040
Speaker 4: and I think this one's actually important to remembers, to

1449
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:51,760
Speaker 4: go up to the election, Kavanall was part of the

1450
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:54,320
Speaker 4: legal team that helped Bush do the original Stop the

1451
01:13:54,360 --> 01:13:56,960
Speaker 4: Steal in two thousands, just like straight up stole the

1452
01:13:57,000 --> 01:13:58,360
Speaker 4: election in Florida.

1453
01:13:59,320 --> 01:14:03,599
Speaker 2: So love that these guys keep getting jobs as opposed

1454
01:14:03,640 --> 01:14:06,559
Speaker 2: to I don't know, getting the punishment for treason.

1455
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:10,640
Speaker 4: And he's only fifty nine years old. Yeah, he's so

1456
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:14,599
Speaker 4: young for that job. We have like forty more years

1457
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:15,240
Speaker 4: of him.

1458
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:17,680
Speaker 2: If you ever wanted like a clear reason why we

1459
01:14:17,720 --> 01:14:21,200
Speaker 2: shouldn't do things like the death penalty for treason, it's

1460
01:14:21,240 --> 01:14:24,599
Speaker 2: because when people commit treason, nothing happens to them, and

1461
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:28,240
Speaker 2: when people I don't know agitate for Puerto Rican independence,

1462
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:32,439
Speaker 2: they get executed. Like that's that's what happens with those laws.

1463
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:38,160
Speaker 2: I just bad avoid laws existing.

1464
01:14:38,920 --> 01:14:42,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, and especially avoid all of your laws being dictated

1465
01:14:42,160 --> 01:14:46,240
Speaker 4: by a bunch of a bunch of fucking serial predators. Yeah,

1466
01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:50,960
Speaker 4: and this gets us too. So Kevinaugh's appointment was very

1467
01:14:51,280 --> 01:14:55,200
Speaker 4: very close. The Republicans at the time they controlled the Senate,

1468
01:14:55,320 --> 01:14:57,280
Speaker 4: but they had a fifty two to forty eight margin,

1469
01:14:58,120 --> 01:15:02,440
Speaker 4: and a lot of those kind kind of marginal senators

1470
01:15:03,200 --> 01:15:04,720
Speaker 4: were like.

1471
01:15:04,840 --> 01:15:08,080
Speaker 1: There was there was a more realistic chance of it

1472
01:15:08,160 --> 01:15:13,000
Speaker 1: not happening then typically Yeah, but they still fucked it

1473
01:15:13,200 --> 01:15:13,720
Speaker 1: in the end.

1474
01:15:14,040 --> 01:15:17,320
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, of course. But you know the reason, the

1475
01:15:17,320 --> 01:15:19,559
Speaker 4: reason why it was close. Is as I think most

1476
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:23,600
Speaker 4: people probably remember, Kavanaugh is a serial sexual predator. He

1477
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:27,160
Speaker 4: has sexually assaulted so many fucking people. People saw him

1478
01:15:27,200 --> 01:15:28,760
Speaker 4: do it. There were times when he was the only

1479
01:15:28,800 --> 01:15:30,400
Speaker 4: fucking person there he did there were times when we

1480
01:15:30,439 --> 01:15:33,280
Speaker 4: did it in crowds. He definitely one hundred percent did it.

1481
01:15:33,320 --> 01:15:35,320
Speaker 4: And if he wants to fucking sue me about it, like,

1482
01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:37,360
Speaker 4: I'll see you in court, motherfucker.

1483
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:40,840
Speaker 1: And while we're here, Clarence Thomas also a predator, thank you.

1484
01:15:41,560 --> 01:15:42,200
Speaker 4: We're going to get to that.

1485
01:15:43,360 --> 01:15:45,919
Speaker 2: Let's let's be clear here, Like if we're doing an

1486
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:48,679
Speaker 2: Olympics of predators, Clarence Thomas is up in the number

1487
01:15:48,720 --> 01:15:51,240
Speaker 2: one spot. Brett Kavanaugh's down in place three. You know,

1488
01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:57,320
Speaker 2: Thomas is a much, much more I don't know, expansive predator.

1489
01:15:58,120 --> 01:16:01,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, there was some belief at the time in this

1490
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:03,479
Speaker 4: is sort of like every single article about this like

1491
01:16:03,520 --> 01:16:05,760
Speaker 4: talks about how this is peakb too, but it is

1492
01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:08,120
Speaker 4: of important that like this, it was a real possibility

1493
01:16:08,160 --> 01:16:10,200
Speaker 4: that he was going to go down in flames. Yeah,

1494
01:16:10,320 --> 01:16:14,280
Speaker 4: it has happened before, it can happen again, and it

1495
01:16:14,439 --> 01:16:17,040
Speaker 4: was a real issue for him. It was a real

1496
01:16:17,080 --> 01:16:19,840
Speaker 4: issue for him in large part because Christine Blossi Forde,

1497
01:16:19,840 --> 01:16:22,519
Speaker 4: who's a psychology professor, just like testified under oath in

1498
01:16:22,600 --> 01:16:26,200
Speaker 4: one of the most like fucking harrowing things I've ever

1499
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:28,280
Speaker 4: seen on the floor of the Senate.

1500
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:29,080
Speaker 2: Horrific.

1501
01:16:29,439 --> 01:16:32,200
Speaker 4: Yeah. The thing I stuck with b was like he

1502
01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:34,599
Speaker 4: was laughing while he did it. It's just like, this

1503
01:16:34,680 --> 01:16:36,080
Speaker 4: guy is a fucking monster.

1504
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:38,320
Speaker 2: I Mean. One of the things that you do have

1505
01:16:38,400 --> 01:16:42,000
Speaker 2: to take into account is that, like the media infrastructure

1506
01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:45,200
Speaker 2: that world up to defend Brett Kavanaugh to ensure that

1507
01:16:45,240 --> 01:16:49,559
Speaker 2: this didn't take him down existed in part because about

1508
01:16:49,560 --> 01:16:52,160
Speaker 2: a third of right wing media, like about a third

1509
01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:55,920
Speaker 2: of that whole infrastructure system exists because of the Clarence

1510
01:16:55,960 --> 01:16:59,840
Speaker 2: Thomas hearings. Ye, Like that and Nixon's resignation being for

1511
01:17:00,720 --> 01:17:03,880
Speaker 2: are kind of the two two inciting incidents of modern

1512
01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:06,960
Speaker 2: conservative media. Those were the things that made them really

1513
01:17:06,960 --> 01:17:08,639
Speaker 2: commit to the idea that, like, we have to build

1514
01:17:08,640 --> 01:17:12,840
Speaker 2: a completely separate ecosystem of facts because if we let

1515
01:17:12,920 --> 01:17:15,720
Speaker 2: reality in at all, like our guys who are all

1516
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:19,200
Speaker 2: sex predators and criminals will never be able to win

1517
01:17:19,400 --> 01:17:20,360
Speaker 2: or stay in office.

1518
01:17:20,640 --> 01:17:22,920
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, And also, I mean it's worth noting too

1519
01:17:22,960 --> 01:17:26,519
Speaker 4: that like Roger ayles Off, who is like one of

1520
01:17:26,560 --> 01:17:29,120
Speaker 4: the people responsible for building all this infrastructure, was also

1521
01:17:29,240 --> 01:17:34,240
Speaker 4: himself just a serial predator on a like frankly incomprehensible scale. Yes,

1522
01:17:34,479 --> 01:17:37,320
Speaker 4: And so all these people were also just defending themselves

1523
01:17:37,439 --> 01:17:43,240
Speaker 4: because they also are all fucking their own sometimes miniature capital,

1524
01:17:43,320 --> 01:17:47,160
Speaker 4: sometimes worse Kavenaughs. And it into this sort of breach,

1525
01:17:47,280 --> 01:17:48,880
Speaker 4: right like, so this is this is this is a

1526
01:17:48,920 --> 01:17:51,479
Speaker 4: real pr crisis to Republicans, this is this is going

1527
01:17:51,680 --> 01:17:55,360
Speaker 4: even worse for them then the last time that they

1528
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:57,880
Speaker 4: fucking did this, which was, as we've alluded to, when

1529
01:17:57,880 --> 01:18:00,280
Speaker 4: they got Clarence Thomas on and when Joe Biden didn't

1530
01:18:00,920 --> 01:18:04,840
Speaker 4: like personally helped Railroad Anita Hill to make sure that

1531
01:18:04,960 --> 01:18:07,280
Speaker 4: when she would get fucked when she to testify against

1532
01:18:07,280 --> 01:18:11,680
Speaker 4: claris Thomas. So that's great, incredible stuff. There was a

1533
01:18:11,680 --> 01:18:13,600
Speaker 4: point in our nation's history where that was actually like

1534
01:18:13,600 --> 01:18:16,160
Speaker 4: a political problem for Joe Biden. We're fucking no longer

1535
01:18:16,160 --> 01:18:20,720
Speaker 4: there anymore. And into this breach steps what's supposed to

1536
01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:25,920
Speaker 4: be an FBI investigation. Yeah, ostensibly, Yeah, so I'm going

1537
01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:28,599
Speaker 4: to read from a recently released report, and there's gonna

1538
01:18:28,600 --> 01:18:29,960
Speaker 4: be I'm going to quote from this report a lot,

1539
01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:31,719
Speaker 4: because this is this is the sort of new information

1540
01:18:31,880 --> 01:18:34,600
Speaker 4: that we have. Where can people see the report? It

1541
01:18:34,600 --> 01:18:37,120
Speaker 4: will be in the description. If you just like search

1542
01:18:37,720 --> 01:18:40,640
Speaker 4: Sheldon white House Report, you should be able to find it.

1543
01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:43,439
Speaker 4: There'll be a link in the notes. Yeah, we'll link it.

1544
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:43,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1545
01:18:44,000 --> 01:18:45,840
Speaker 4: It's like it's like thirty pages. It's actually not third

1546
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:47,720
Speaker 4: it's more like twenty pages because like a bunch of

1547
01:18:47,720 --> 01:18:50,560
Speaker 4: the mergercizations, so it's pretty easy read. I'm going to

1548
01:18:50,640 --> 01:18:52,720
Speaker 4: read some of it. And also I do want to

1549
01:18:52,720 --> 01:18:55,639
Speaker 4: point out the fact that the Senate Judiciary Committee member

1550
01:18:55,680 --> 01:18:59,880
Speaker 4: who wrote this thing is named Sheldon white House. Incredible name,

1551
01:19:00,320 --> 01:19:01,280
Speaker 4: incredible center.

1552
01:19:01,400 --> 01:19:04,280
Speaker 2: That is a great name. Where does that come from?

1553
01:19:04,360 --> 01:19:05,920
Speaker 2: That can't be a real name. That can't be a

1554
01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:08,040
Speaker 2: name that existed. That can't be a name that existed

1555
01:19:08,120 --> 01:19:10,479
Speaker 2: before the White House, right, Like it has to have

1556
01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:13,160
Speaker 2: at some point been named after the White House, right,

1557
01:19:13,800 --> 01:19:15,559
Speaker 2: I mean, why else would you have that name?

1558
01:19:16,200 --> 01:19:18,360
Speaker 4: Well, it could just be that this family historically lived

1559
01:19:18,360 --> 01:19:20,320
Speaker 4: in a White House for seven hundred years.

1560
01:19:20,479 --> 01:19:21,840
Speaker 2: You'd have to be in a White House for a

1561
01:19:21,960 --> 01:19:23,360
Speaker 2: long ass time to get.

1562
01:19:23,160 --> 01:19:27,960
Speaker 4: That last name. So here's from the report quote after

1563
01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:31,439
Speaker 4: hearing the testimony by Ford and Kavanaugh, the Judiciary Committee

1564
01:19:31,439 --> 01:19:34,639
Speaker 4: agreed to request the FBI he knocked a supplemental background

1565
01:19:34,680 --> 01:19:40,320
Speaker 4: investigation quote limited to current credible allegations against Kavanaugh, before

1566
01:19:40,360 --> 01:19:43,360
Speaker 4: the full Senate voted on his confirmation. And so there's

1567
01:19:43,360 --> 01:19:46,800
Speaker 4: an important detail here that wasn't clear to anyone at

1568
01:19:46,840 --> 01:19:49,520
Speaker 4: the time, because fucking no one knows how the minutia

1569
01:19:49,680 --> 01:19:54,000
Speaker 4: of FBI investigations work. But this was not actually a

1570
01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:57,680
Speaker 4: full FBI investigation. This is this is something called a

1571
01:19:58,479 --> 01:20:04,519
Speaker 4: like supplemental background investigation, and we'll get into what exactly

1572
01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:06,840
Speaker 4: that is in a second, but it's not like a

1573
01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:12,280
Speaker 4: real FBI investigation. And this investigation does what it was

1574
01:20:12,320 --> 01:20:15,120
Speaker 4: supposed to do, which was, you know, clear Kavanaugh's name

1575
01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:16,920
Speaker 4: and off of Republican senators to be able to vote

1576
01:20:16,960 --> 01:20:20,000
Speaker 4: for him without immediately getting destroyed politically. What it didn't

1577
01:20:20,040 --> 01:20:24,160
Speaker 4: do was like actually conduct an investigation. Trump very famously

1578
01:20:24,400 --> 01:20:26,759
Speaker 4: at this time it says that the investigation had quote

1579
01:20:26,760 --> 01:20:31,880
Speaker 4: free reign and it unbelievably did not bull fucking shit. Yeah,

1580
01:20:31,920 --> 01:20:34,240
Speaker 4: he just lied about this, like yep.

1581
01:20:34,479 --> 01:20:34,679
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1582
01:20:34,680 --> 01:20:39,000
Speaker 4: The administration directly ran the investigation, killed it, and then

1583
01:20:39,080 --> 01:20:41,960
Speaker 4: used its political power and the FBI itself to you know,

1584
01:20:42,000 --> 01:20:44,599
Speaker 4: illegitimately railroad a serial predator or on at the Supreme

1585
01:20:44,640 --> 01:20:46,519
Speaker 4: Court to take away of when's right to get into abortion.

1586
01:20:47,200 --> 01:20:50,599
Speaker 4: And then after that they stonewalled the investigation for six years.

1587
01:20:51,439 --> 01:20:53,720
Speaker 4: So this is how that sort of process worked. I'm

1588
01:20:53,720 --> 01:20:56,600
Speaker 4: going to quote from that report again. Third, although the

1589
01:20:56,600 --> 01:20:59,760
Speaker 4: Trump administration and the FBI assured the Senate that the

1590
01:20:59,840 --> 01:21:03,800
Speaker 4: FBI's investigation was being conducted quote by the book, they

1591
01:21:03,800 --> 01:21:07,080
Speaker 4: failed to disclose that there was actually no quote unquote

1592
01:21:07,160 --> 01:21:10,560
Speaker 4: book at all. The FBI produced no written records for

1593
01:21:10,600 --> 01:21:14,479
Speaker 4: supplemental background investigation, saying it was merely acting as the

1594
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:17,639
Speaker 4: quote agent for the White House in such matters.

1595
01:21:17,840 --> 01:21:19,400
Speaker 2: Which white House was it? Sheldon White?

1596
01:21:20,120 --> 01:21:20,400
Speaker 9: Sorry?

1597
01:21:21,200 --> 01:21:25,599
Speaker 4: No, white House? Bad, the one with the president White House.

1598
01:21:25,720 --> 01:21:26,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1599
01:21:26,120 --> 01:21:28,360
Speaker 1: By the way, I was, I was trying to debunk

1600
01:21:28,400 --> 01:21:32,000
Speaker 1: his last name. He comes from the longest line of

1601
01:21:32,160 --> 01:21:34,320
Speaker 1: nepotism of that he.

1602
01:21:34,680 --> 01:21:36,400
Speaker 2: I was like, I was like, oh, they must have

1603
01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:38,519
Speaker 2: gotten named that back when like the fact that they

1604
01:21:38,560 --> 01:21:40,800
Speaker 2: had a house at all was noteworthy.

1605
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:44,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, these people have paint it literally kept going.

1606
01:21:44,600 --> 01:21:47,320
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, one level, okay, two levels okay, three,

1607
01:21:47,720 --> 01:21:50,080
Speaker 1: okay for this, Okay, when does it end?

1608
01:21:50,160 --> 01:21:52,640
Speaker 4: And then I got bored? And the funny part of

1609
01:21:52,640 --> 01:21:54,439
Speaker 4: back of this again is that, like this is the

1610
01:21:54,520 --> 01:21:58,720
Speaker 4: good guy in this story is my NEPO baby like

1611
01:21:58,720 --> 01:22:04,679
Speaker 4: like corruption Junior Senator of Rhode Island. Yeah, okay, yeah,

1612
01:22:04,720 --> 01:22:07,479
Speaker 4: And I want to kind of focus in on this

1613
01:22:07,600 --> 01:22:10,280
Speaker 4: statement in and of itself, because this is just like

1614
01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:13,639
Speaker 4: an absolutely hideous a view of just like the hideous

1615
01:22:13,720 --> 01:22:17,280
Speaker 4: power of the unitary executive just do whatever the fuck

1616
01:22:17,280 --> 01:22:21,000
Speaker 4: it wants. Like, what do you mean that the FBI

1617
01:22:21,160 --> 01:22:24,000
Speaker 4: produced no written protocols for for how they're supposed to

1618
01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:27,120
Speaker 4: do supplements of background investigation? What do you mean that

1619
01:22:27,160 --> 01:22:30,240
Speaker 4: they were quote acting as an agent for the White House?

1620
01:22:30,920 --> 01:22:34,559
Speaker 4: That's batshit? Why why their security service is literally directly

1621
01:22:34,640 --> 01:22:36,880
Speaker 4: answered to one guy who could just tell them what

1622
01:22:37,040 --> 01:22:39,559
Speaker 4: to do whatever the fuck he wants. That's insane. That

1623
01:22:39,720 --> 01:22:41,679
Speaker 4: is a that is a fucking that is a drange

1624
01:22:41,720 --> 01:22:45,200
Speaker 4: political system. And yet this is you know, this is

1625
01:22:45,240 --> 01:22:47,400
Speaker 4: this is the system I'm supposed to be doing this stuff,

1626
01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:50,519
Speaker 4: which is also very funny because White House is like

1627
01:22:51,080 --> 01:22:53,920
Speaker 4: not really trying to get into a feud with the FBI,

1628
01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:56,120
Speaker 4: So there's a lot of kind of like a sculptory

1629
01:22:56,160 --> 01:22:58,439
Speaker 4: stuff in the FBI. But like, also everything the FBI

1630
01:22:58,640 --> 01:23:01,479
Speaker 4: does in this is such a fiasco that it's very

1631
01:23:01,520 --> 01:23:05,760
Speaker 4: clearly like also very much their fault. I'm gonna read

1632
01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:07,720
Speaker 4: another quote from this. This is from a bit later

1633
01:23:07,760 --> 01:23:11,479
Speaker 4: in the report. Fourth, the FBI's tip line was not

1634
01:23:11,640 --> 01:23:15,360
Speaker 4: used to facilitate the FBI supplemental background investigation into the

1635
01:23:15,400 --> 01:23:19,840
Speaker 4: allegations against Kavanall on instructions from the White House. The

1636
01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:23,160
Speaker 4: FBI did not investigate thousands of tips that came through

1637
01:23:23,200 --> 01:23:27,320
Speaker 4: the FBI's tip line. Instead, all tips related to Kavandall

1638
01:23:27,400 --> 01:23:31,320
Speaker 4: were forwarded to the White House without investigation. If anything,

1639
01:23:31,400 --> 01:23:33,400
Speaker 4: the White House may have used the tip line to

1640
01:23:33,560 --> 01:23:39,080
Speaker 4: steer FBI investigators away from derogatory or damaging information, which

1641
01:23:39,120 --> 01:23:42,880
Speaker 4: is again absolutely nuts insane.

1642
01:23:42,479 --> 01:23:45,160
Speaker 2: And like, yes, so this is the kind of thing

1643
01:23:45,160 --> 01:23:48,760
Speaker 2: that like should be serious crime, right, like yeah, you go,

1644
01:23:48,920 --> 01:23:50,920
Speaker 2: you get locked up for forever, Like this is a

1645
01:23:50,960 --> 01:23:54,120
Speaker 2: forever crime. Yeah, it seems much more serious than I

1646
01:23:54,120 --> 01:23:55,960
Speaker 2: don't know, robbing a bank to try and fund the

1647
01:23:56,000 --> 01:23:57,479
Speaker 2: Puerto Rican independence movement.

1648
01:23:57,960 --> 01:23:59,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not clear to me whether this would have

1649
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:02,400
Speaker 4: been a giant scandal for a normal administration, just because

1650
01:24:02,479 --> 01:24:05,040
Speaker 4: the American presidency has so much power. But it should

1651
01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:07,400
Speaker 4: have been like this was just like a thing that

1652
01:24:07,439 --> 01:24:09,720
Speaker 4: would happen every week under Trump, was like he would

1653
01:24:09,760 --> 01:24:12,320
Speaker 4: just do shit like this. Do you know also what

1654
01:24:12,400 --> 01:24:14,560
Speaker 4: you should do? Shit like I don't know. That was

1655
01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:16,080
Speaker 4: not my best pivot.

1656
01:24:15,800 --> 01:24:18,160
Speaker 2: No, no, but but do shit like.

1657
01:24:18,560 --> 01:24:21,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, like like these products and services that support the podcast,

1658
01:24:31,560 --> 01:24:33,960
Speaker 4: we are back. We've gotten to the point where again

1659
01:24:34,000 --> 01:24:36,960
Speaker 4: the FBI's tip line is not actually being used of

1660
01:24:37,000 --> 01:24:39,160
Speaker 4: the investigation. They're sending it all to the White House.

1661
01:24:39,439 --> 01:24:43,200
Speaker 4: The report found that so the FBI, like and I

1662
01:24:43,240 --> 01:24:45,000
Speaker 4: talked about the public at the time, they talked to

1663
01:24:45,280 --> 01:24:49,000
Speaker 4: ten people who they said had like direct knowledge of

1664
01:24:49,040 --> 01:24:52,280
Speaker 4: the situation. But again they only talked to ten people,

1665
01:24:53,080 --> 01:24:55,280
Speaker 4: and there is a whole bunch of people who had

1666
01:24:55,400 --> 01:24:57,519
Speaker 4: very relevant evidence about a lot of important stuff in

1667
01:24:57,520 --> 01:24:59,360
Speaker 4: this Like so one of the claims that's going on

1668
01:24:59,479 --> 01:25:01,720
Speaker 4: here is that Kavanaugh was just wasted all the time.

1669
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:03,840
Speaker 4: And this is like every single person you talk to

1670
01:25:04,200 --> 01:25:06,960
Speaker 4: who knew Kavanaugh in college and isn't like directly employed

1671
01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:08,439
Speaker 4: by the Republican Party was like, oh yeah, this guy

1672
01:25:08,520 --> 01:25:11,400
Speaker 4: wasted all the time, right, and this became a big

1673
01:25:11,439 --> 01:25:12,880
Speaker 4: part of the trial. And there were a whole bunch

1674
01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:14,720
Speaker 4: of people who tried to go to the FBI to

1675
01:25:14,800 --> 01:25:19,200
Speaker 4: be like, hey, he did this, and they just like

1676
01:25:19,439 --> 01:25:22,479
Speaker 4: would not talk to them. People who tried to come forward,

1677
01:25:22,680 --> 01:25:24,679
Speaker 4: like they wouldn't talk to people who sent them information

1678
01:25:24,720 --> 01:25:27,600
Speaker 4: to the tip line. They just like didn't talk to

1679
01:25:27,640 --> 01:25:30,800
Speaker 4: them at all. I'm going going to read from the

1680
01:25:30,840 --> 01:25:34,599
Speaker 4: thing again. According to a quote executive summary, if the

1681
01:25:34,680 --> 01:25:38,839
Speaker 4: FBI supplemental background investigation issued by the Judiciary Committee majority,

1682
01:25:39,240 --> 01:25:41,559
Speaker 4: the majority of that time was Republican majority, So that's

1683
01:25:41,600 --> 01:25:45,360
Speaker 4: why it's fucked. These people were quote all witnesses with

1684
01:25:45,439 --> 01:25:49,759
Speaker 4: potential firsthand knowledge at the allegations. The FBI did not, however,

1685
01:25:49,920 --> 01:25:53,599
Speaker 4: interview Ford or Kavanaugh, the witnesses potentially with the most

1686
01:25:53,640 --> 01:25:57,400
Speaker 4: firsthand knowledge, nor did it speak to other potentially corroborating

1687
01:25:57,439 --> 01:26:01,040
Speaker 4: witnesses who had not witnessed the events firsthand. Nevertheless, the

1688
01:26:01,120 --> 01:26:06,440
Speaker 4: Judiciary Committee's Republicans executive summary concluded that the quote supplemental

1689
01:26:06,479 --> 01:26:10,760
Speaker 4: background investigation confirms there is no cooberation of allegations made

1690
01:26:10,760 --> 01:26:15,000
Speaker 4: by doctor Ford and Ms Ramirez, So they didn't talk

1691
01:26:15,080 --> 01:26:18,519
Speaker 4: to either Kavanaugh or Ford, the two people who the

1692
01:26:18,800 --> 01:26:19,960
Speaker 4: thing was a ballot.

1693
01:26:19,760 --> 01:26:21,800
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you know, why would you need to

1694
01:26:21,840 --> 01:26:23,000
Speaker 2: do that, right, Like.

1695
01:26:23,320 --> 01:26:28,439
Speaker 4: Wait, what the fuck? This is so insane. No. Oother

1696
01:26:28,479 --> 01:26:30,479
Speaker 4: part of this is so the FBI's initial background check

1697
01:26:30,479 --> 01:26:32,599
Speaker 4: didn't turn up any of this, and so the supplemental

1698
01:26:32,640 --> 01:26:34,400
Speaker 4: thing is being done in place of like the normal

1699
01:26:34,400 --> 01:26:36,719
Speaker 4: background check because the normal background check was also done

1700
01:26:36,720 --> 01:26:38,479
Speaker 4: like shit, and so they never figured out any of

1701
01:26:38,520 --> 01:26:42,160
Speaker 4: this incredibly obvious stuff about him. And meanwhile, like the

1702
01:26:42,160 --> 01:26:44,400
Speaker 4: supplemental one just they just kept being like, oh, well,

1703
01:26:44,400 --> 01:26:47,000
Speaker 4: we don't actually need to talk to the people who

1704
01:26:47,040 --> 01:26:52,040
Speaker 4: this is about for incredibly nebulous reasons. And the other

1705
01:26:52,080 --> 01:26:53,760
Speaker 4: part of this that's going on is that like, while

1706
01:26:53,800 --> 01:26:57,080
Speaker 4: this process is happening, the Democratic on the Judiciary Committee

1707
01:26:57,080 --> 01:26:58,840
Speaker 4: are trying to figure out how this process works, and

1708
01:26:59,680 --> 01:27:02,160
Speaker 4: Trump but just like refuses to talk to any of

1709
01:27:02,200 --> 01:27:04,519
Speaker 4: them and the FBI refuses to send any of them.

1710
01:27:04,520 --> 01:27:07,639
Speaker 4: People are fighting out like we we know that there's

1711
01:27:07,680 --> 01:27:12,080
Speaker 4: no specific process for this like supplemental investigation thing, because

1712
01:27:12,360 --> 01:27:16,360
Speaker 4: like their staffers found it out from a YouTube video Jesus,

1713
01:27:16,600 --> 01:27:18,400
Speaker 4: like they did not find this out from the FBI.

1714
01:27:18,479 --> 01:27:20,839
Speaker 4: It was like this guy. Senator staffers were like watching

1715
01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:23,639
Speaker 4: YouTube videos to figure out how this investigation was supposed

1716
01:27:23,640 --> 01:27:26,240
Speaker 4: to work. So, and it turns out we had known

1717
01:27:26,360 --> 01:27:29,760
Speaker 4: at the time that the FBI was doing some kind

1718
01:27:29,800 --> 01:27:34,240
Speaker 4: of shady stuff. But what we know now is that

1719
01:27:34,720 --> 01:27:38,080
Speaker 4: so Ford and her lawyers repeatedly tried to talk to

1720
01:27:38,120 --> 01:27:40,600
Speaker 4: the FBI and they were just never able to do so, right,

1721
01:27:40,680 --> 01:27:43,280
Speaker 4: the FBI completely stonewalled them. And it turns out that

1722
01:27:43,320 --> 01:27:46,599
Speaker 4: they ston malled them because Trump specifically ordered the FBI

1723
01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:50,160
Speaker 4: not to talk to her or kavanall what what, which

1724
01:27:50,200 --> 01:27:55,600
Speaker 4: is absolutely insane. Yeah, the law It turns out this

1725
01:27:55,680 --> 01:27:56,720
Speaker 4: is this is this is the part of this is

1726
01:27:56,760 --> 01:27:57,360
Speaker 4: the most insane.

1727
01:27:57,400 --> 01:27:57,519
Speaker 1: Right.

1728
01:27:57,520 --> 01:28:01,000
Speaker 4: Everyone thought that the FBI, which is doing a normal

1729
01:28:01,080 --> 01:28:03,160
Speaker 4: FBI investigation, right, And part of what's going on here

1730
01:28:03,200 --> 01:28:06,439
Speaker 4: is that the media is just these like absolute credulous idiots, right,

1731
01:28:06,920 --> 01:28:09,439
Speaker 4: because every single day the media is reporting that like

1732
01:28:09,520 --> 01:28:12,240
Speaker 4: Trump is allowing an open investigation because like somehow again

1733
01:28:12,280 --> 01:28:14,080
Speaker 4: this is this is like two years into him being

1734
01:28:14,120 --> 01:28:16,040
Speaker 4: in office. Right, none of these people have figured out

1735
01:28:16,160 --> 01:28:18,479
Speaker 4: that every single thing he says is a lie. They're

1736
01:28:18,479 --> 01:28:20,320
Speaker 4: all like, oh, yeah, Trump keep saying that these people

1737
01:28:20,360 --> 01:28:22,040
Speaker 4: can talk to whoever they want, and they can investigate

1738
01:28:22,080 --> 01:28:24,040
Speaker 4: whoever they want. And this gets to the point where

1739
01:28:24,240 --> 01:28:26,679
Speaker 4: the FBI is calling the White House every day because

1740
01:28:26,920 --> 01:28:29,040
Speaker 4: they'll be reading the news reports that say we can

1741
01:28:29,120 --> 01:28:31,200
Speaker 4: talk to anyone, and they'll be like, hey, you told

1742
01:28:31,280 --> 01:28:33,679
Speaker 4: us we can't talk to these people, and they'll be like, no, no, actually,

1743
01:28:33,720 --> 01:28:36,240
Speaker 4: you still can't talk to these people. And it turns

1744
01:28:36,280 --> 01:28:39,080
Speaker 4: out that what's happening is this like quote unquote supplemental investigation.

1745
01:28:39,560 --> 01:28:42,280
Speaker 4: It's not an FBI investigation. They can only do things

1746
01:28:42,360 --> 01:28:45,000
Speaker 4: that are like quote unquote directed by the president, So

1747
01:28:45,040 --> 01:28:47,479
Speaker 4: they can only talk to the people who the President

1748
01:28:47,560 --> 01:28:49,760
Speaker 4: tells them to talk to, and they can't look at

1749
01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:53,360
Speaker 4: evidence that the President doesn't tell them to to look at.

1750
01:28:53,479 --> 01:28:56,840
Speaker 4: And so what ends up happening is that like you know,

1751
01:28:56,960 --> 01:28:59,920
Speaker 4: there's initially like four people that they're they're supposed to

1752
01:28:59,920 --> 01:29:02,880
Speaker 4: be talking to, right, and you know, they keep getting

1753
01:29:02,920 --> 01:29:05,479
Speaker 4: these like press things that are like, oh, hey, this

1754
01:29:05,520 --> 01:29:07,320
Speaker 4: is the full this is an open investigation. You can

1755
01:29:07,400 --> 01:29:10,400
Speaker 4: like do whatever you want. And eventually they put in

1756
01:29:10,439 --> 01:29:12,280
Speaker 4: like six more people, so like they talked to ten

1757
01:29:12,360 --> 01:29:15,120
Speaker 4: total people. But because this is an investigation that is

1758
01:29:15,160 --> 01:29:17,559
Speaker 4: not being run by the FBI. Really it's being it's

1759
01:29:17,640 --> 01:29:20,759
Speaker 4: being directly ran by Trump himself, which he's lying about

1760
01:29:21,479 --> 01:29:23,360
Speaker 4: because of that, they fucking never talked to anyone. And

1761
01:29:23,400 --> 01:29:26,240
Speaker 4: then also again as we talked about, right that that

1762
01:29:26,280 --> 01:29:27,679
Speaker 4: tip line they set up a bunch of the people

1763
01:29:27,680 --> 01:29:29,360
Speaker 4: who tried to talk to the FBI, who the FBI

1764
01:29:29,400 --> 01:29:32,920
Speaker 4: wouldn't talk to, were like told, okay, go submit stuff

1765
01:29:32,960 --> 01:29:35,599
Speaker 4: to this tip line. And the FBI later admits that

1766
01:29:36,040 --> 01:29:37,840
Speaker 4: the tip line was like never real.

1767
01:29:37,760 --> 01:29:39,639
Speaker 2: Sure have a nice fake tip line.

1768
01:29:39,720 --> 01:29:42,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, they never used any of an investigation. They sent

1769
01:29:42,479 --> 01:29:44,240
Speaker 4: it all the Trump Yeah. And the reason they did

1770
01:29:44,320 --> 01:29:45,960
Speaker 4: it was that they were sick of people calling their

1771
01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:48,840
Speaker 4: regular tip line, so they set up a specific tip

1772
01:29:48,880 --> 01:29:50,280
Speaker 4: line so they could just have all the stuff that

1773
01:29:50,280 --> 01:29:51,800
Speaker 4: they would never listen to, and the same sense of

1774
01:29:51,800 --> 01:29:53,280
Speaker 4: the White House so they could do I guess like

1775
01:29:53,320 --> 01:29:58,120
Speaker 4: oppo research bullshit on it. So this is just straight

1776
01:29:58,240 --> 01:30:12,160
Speaker 4: up a sham. There's no actual investigation going on. The

1777
01:30:12,240 --> 01:30:14,600
Speaker 4: media people at the time should have been able to

1778
01:30:14,600 --> 01:30:17,160
Speaker 4: figure out that obviously this thing was bullshit, right, but

1779
01:30:17,439 --> 01:30:19,479
Speaker 4: nobody looked into it except for this one guy and

1780
01:30:19,479 --> 01:30:21,679
Speaker 4: the Senate Duciary Committee, And so the support comes back

1781
01:30:21,720 --> 01:30:23,679
Speaker 4: and goes like, yeah, we did no research. We talked

1782
01:30:23,720 --> 01:30:26,759
Speaker 4: to like ten people and we didn't like ask them anything,

1783
01:30:26,800 --> 01:30:28,559
Speaker 4: and we didn't use any of the research that we had,

1784
01:30:28,680 --> 01:30:32,679
Speaker 4: and we have cleared this guy. As this is happening, right,

1785
01:30:32,760 --> 01:30:35,479
Speaker 4: the Judiciary Committee Democrats are like trying to figure out

1786
01:30:35,479 --> 01:30:38,680
Speaker 4: what the fuck is going on. And this begins a

1787
01:30:39,479 --> 01:30:43,200
Speaker 4: six year process of a Senator White House just fighting

1788
01:30:43,200 --> 01:30:45,960
Speaker 4: a war with the actual White House and the FBI

1789
01:30:46,080 --> 01:30:47,680
Speaker 4: and the DODA to try to figure out what the

1790
01:30:47,680 --> 01:30:51,320
Speaker 4: fuck just happens. And the interesting part of this also

1791
01:30:51,560 --> 01:30:53,519
Speaker 4: is that so obviously the Trump administration was never going

1792
01:30:53,520 --> 01:30:55,400
Speaker 4: to talk to them, right, which is idience of itself

1793
01:30:55,439 --> 01:30:58,160
Speaker 4: incredibly disturbing that like the Senate Judiciary Committee, who in

1794
01:30:58,240 --> 01:31:00,639
Speaker 4: theory is one of the organizations supposed to be doing

1795
01:31:00,640 --> 01:31:03,320
Speaker 4: oversight of the FBI, would send requests of the FBI

1796
01:31:03,320 --> 01:31:04,760
Speaker 4: for your information, the FBI would just tell him to

1797
01:31:04,800 --> 01:31:07,800
Speaker 4: fuck off. Yeah. But the interesting part is they kept

1798
01:31:07,840 --> 01:31:12,080
Speaker 4: doing this under Biden. So Biden's FBI was also doing this.

1799
01:31:12,240 --> 01:31:12,800
Speaker 4: It was awesome.

1800
01:31:13,080 --> 01:31:14,840
Speaker 2: I love, I love they do a greta, which fucking

1801
01:31:14,880 --> 01:31:18,680
Speaker 2: liberals like have concluded politically at least that they have

1802
01:31:18,760 --> 01:31:22,200
Speaker 2: to be as like vociferously pro law enforcement as they can,

1803
01:31:22,280 --> 01:31:24,680
Speaker 2: and all cops ever do is say, we are just

1804
01:31:24,800 --> 01:31:29,599
Speaker 2: waiting for the chance to kill you. Like, yeah, it's great, cool,

1805
01:31:30,160 --> 01:31:30,719
Speaker 2: good stuff.

1806
01:31:31,200 --> 01:31:34,160
Speaker 4: I'm going to go relign from this. It's so insane.

1807
01:31:34,800 --> 01:31:37,320
Speaker 4: When the Senators followed up, they faced the challenge of

1808
01:31:37,360 --> 01:31:41,360
Speaker 4: aligning FBI, DOJ, and White House equities. They sent like

1809
01:31:41,560 --> 01:31:44,439
Speaker 4: requests for the emails between Trump and the FBI right

1810
01:31:44,520 --> 01:31:46,599
Speaker 4: figure out whether Trump was doing the thing he was doing,

1811
01:31:46,640 --> 01:31:50,120
Speaker 4: which was like directly running the investigation himself. The FBI

1812
01:31:50,160 --> 01:31:53,160
Speaker 4: claimed it cannot answer without authorization from the DOJ in

1813
01:31:53,160 --> 01:31:56,559
Speaker 4: the White House. The DOJ directed the senator's inquiries to

1814
01:31:56,560 --> 01:31:58,439
Speaker 4: the White House and the FBI, and the White House

1815
01:31:58,439 --> 01:32:01,360
Speaker 4: referred the senators back to the agency. So they're doing

1816
01:32:01,400 --> 01:32:03,639
Speaker 4: this like they're doing the like the circular run around

1817
01:32:03,720 --> 01:32:05,479
Speaker 4: thing you give him your insurance company where they tell

1818
01:32:05,520 --> 01:32:06,880
Speaker 4: you to talk to three people and every single one

1819
01:32:06,920 --> 01:32:08,000
Speaker 4: of them tells you to talk to the other one.

1820
01:32:08,000 --> 01:32:11,479
Speaker 4: But again, this is the Biden DOJ, the Biden FBI,

1821
01:32:11,520 --> 01:32:15,519
Speaker 4: and the Biden administration all doing this. The FBI finally

1822
01:32:15,560 --> 01:32:20,320
Speaker 4: provides documents about like their contact with Trump for the investigation.

1823
01:32:20,800 --> 01:32:25,080
Speaker 4: They finally provide the documents in November of twenty twenty three.

1824
01:32:25,120 --> 01:32:30,719
Speaker 4: This investigation started in late twenty eighteen. It took half

1825
01:32:30,760 --> 01:32:35,040
Speaker 4: a decade, almost half of which was under the Biden administration.

1826
01:32:35,920 --> 01:32:39,640
Speaker 4: And also Senator Whitehouse literally threatening to torpedo and nomination

1827
01:32:39,800 --> 01:32:42,680
Speaker 4: for the DOJ's Office of Legal Counsel, Like he had

1828
01:32:42,720 --> 01:32:46,280
Speaker 4: to threaten the Department of Justice in order to get

1829
01:32:46,320 --> 01:32:49,040
Speaker 4: them to send the documents that proved that Trump colluded

1830
01:32:49,080 --> 01:32:52,960
Speaker 4: to top Kavanaugh investigation, which even just some like a

1831
01:32:53,000 --> 01:32:55,840
Speaker 4: political standpoint from the Democrats, right, why the fuck would

1832
01:32:55,880 --> 01:32:58,360
Speaker 4: you not want that in the open? I mean, I guess,

1833
01:32:58,360 --> 01:32:59,840
Speaker 4: I guess unless you're Jo Biden, you don't want every

1834
01:33:00,000 --> 01:33:01,920
Speaker 4: remembering like all the shit you need to need a hill.

1835
01:33:01,960 --> 01:33:06,280
Speaker 4: But like this is literally free political amministionat of your opponent,

1836
01:33:06,600 --> 01:33:11,200
Speaker 4: like abusing the political process. And it still took a

1837
01:33:11,280 --> 01:33:15,360
Speaker 4: Democratic senator just directly threatening the DOJ of a democratic

1838
01:33:15,400 --> 01:33:16,679
Speaker 4: administration to get this out.

1839
01:33:17,160 --> 01:33:20,559
Speaker 1: I just like it also took so many years, Like yeah,

1840
01:33:20,720 --> 01:33:24,559
Speaker 1: Havanat has has been able to take away and fuck

1841
01:33:24,640 --> 01:33:29,439
Speaker 1: up our rights since what twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen. Yeah,

1842
01:33:29,600 --> 01:33:34,000
Speaker 1: and the damage he's done is permanent.

1843
01:33:34,320 --> 01:33:37,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, he will be around in office, possible, very likely

1844
01:33:37,640 --> 01:33:39,440
Speaker 2: for most of the rest of our lives.

1845
01:33:39,640 --> 01:33:40,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1846
01:33:40,479 --> 01:33:42,960
Speaker 4: Like I said earlier, it's only fifty nine years old.

1847
01:33:43,160 --> 01:33:45,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, he could have another thirty years there at least.

1848
01:33:45,600 --> 01:33:48,480
Speaker 4: Yeah. And if this stuff had been known, she absolutely

1849
01:33:48,520 --> 01:33:49,920
Speaker 4: would not have gotten nominated.

1850
01:33:50,000 --> 01:33:50,160
Speaker 3: Right.

1851
01:33:50,320 --> 01:33:54,679
Speaker 4: There were two unbelievably close votes to get him appointed.

1852
01:33:54,760 --> 01:33:54,880
Speaker 1: Right.

1853
01:33:55,000 --> 01:33:56,920
Speaker 4: There was a first vote where the Republicans trade a

1854
01:33:57,000 --> 01:34:02,200
Speaker 4: bypassed the Fillow Bobster and still almost lost. And it

1855
01:34:02,280 --> 01:34:05,840
Speaker 4: turns out that, Okay, the actual final vote ended up

1856
01:34:05,880 --> 01:34:09,280
Speaker 4: being fifty to forty eight with two abstensions, and one

1857
01:34:09,320 --> 01:34:11,040
Speaker 4: of the essensions is this guy was going to his

1858
01:34:11,080 --> 01:34:15,280
Speaker 4: daughter's wedding or something. But the other abstention was Lisa Morowski,

1859
01:34:15,320 --> 01:34:17,479
Speaker 4: who's the senator from Alaska who's like the most sort

1860
01:34:17,479 --> 01:34:20,479
Speaker 4: of liberal Republican senators and she does like a coward

1861
01:34:20,520 --> 01:34:23,360
Speaker 4: present vote so it can happen. And if she had

1862
01:34:23,439 --> 01:34:28,040
Speaker 4: voted no, and if Joe Manchin hadn't fucking cross party

1863
01:34:28,120 --> 01:34:30,720
Speaker 4: lines to get to get him in office, which I

1864
01:34:30,720 --> 01:34:32,479
Speaker 4: think I also people just forget about. Joe mentioned that

1865
01:34:32,520 --> 01:34:36,639
Speaker 4: he is also like, individually specifically the guy who got

1866
01:34:36,720 --> 01:34:40,479
Speaker 4: fucking Kavanaugh pointed this would have failed, and the only

1867
01:34:40,520 --> 01:34:43,080
Speaker 4: reason that it didn't fail and that this guy was

1868
01:34:43,120 --> 01:34:47,360
Speaker 4: able to fucking destroy Roephi Wade is that Trump just

1869
01:34:47,439 --> 01:34:50,640
Speaker 4: straight up ran a fake FBI investigation and lied to

1870
01:34:50,680 --> 01:34:54,160
Speaker 4: everyone about it and fucking railroad of the nomination through.

1871
01:34:54,760 --> 01:34:57,920
Speaker 4: That's fucking Kavanaugh. And I think I think the thing

1872
01:34:57,920 --> 01:35:00,439
Speaker 4: that calls on here again is like every single week

1873
01:35:00,600 --> 01:35:03,559
Speaker 4: of Trump is just like this, yeah, right, Like every

1874
01:35:03,600 --> 01:35:05,680
Speaker 4: single day has some bullshit like this. It just like

1875
01:35:05,720 --> 01:35:07,280
Speaker 4: fucks everyone for the rest of their lives.

1876
01:35:07,400 --> 01:35:07,599
Speaker 2: Yep.

1877
01:35:08,320 --> 01:35:13,679
Speaker 4: And it's deeply grim that he could take power again

1878
01:35:14,040 --> 01:35:16,400
Speaker 4: and we could get back to like the stuff he

1879
01:35:16,439 --> 01:35:18,040
Speaker 4: was doing at the end of his administratory. Who's just

1880
01:35:18,040 --> 01:35:21,000
Speaker 4: like having protesters killed with federal worshels, Like.

1881
01:35:21,320 --> 01:35:24,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, That's the scary thing about it, right, is there's

1882
01:35:24,880 --> 01:35:27,599
Speaker 2: not any kind of like functional resistance to this. Right,

1883
01:35:27,680 --> 01:35:33,160
Speaker 2: the left has no power, has no serious organizing capacity

1884
01:35:33,280 --> 01:35:36,000
Speaker 2: in the United States, and can't get on the same

1885
01:35:36,040 --> 01:35:39,640
Speaker 2: page about anything that matters, whereas liberals, when they have

1886
01:35:39,840 --> 01:35:45,200
Speaker 2: four years of control of the federal government cannot adequately

1887
01:35:45,360 --> 01:35:50,520
Speaker 2: prosecute an attempt to overthrow the government and murder them. Yeah,

1888
01:35:50,560 --> 01:35:54,280
Speaker 2: so I don't know, you know, make sure you got

1889
01:35:54,280 --> 01:35:57,800
Speaker 2: clean water, folks, check on that garden. I don't know

1890
01:35:57,800 --> 01:35:58,280
Speaker 2: what to tell you.

1891
01:35:58,600 --> 01:36:02,519
Speaker 1: It's just so bleak because, like I said earlier, everything

1892
01:36:02,600 --> 01:36:03,719
Speaker 1: is so permanent.

1893
01:36:03,920 --> 01:36:05,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know what I mean, like.

1894
01:36:05,439 --> 01:36:06,800
Speaker 2: Just lasts so fucking long.

1895
01:36:07,040 --> 01:36:11,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, it lasts so long, and like and like we

1896
01:36:11,560 --> 01:36:13,880
Speaker 1: we don't even know the damage that Kavanaugh is going

1897
01:36:13,920 --> 01:36:16,280
Speaker 1: to do to our society because of Trump. And it's

1898
01:36:16,280 --> 01:36:20,920
Speaker 1: also just terrifying that, you know, Trump was able to

1899
01:36:20,960 --> 01:36:24,559
Speaker 1: manipulate the system in this way and that so many

1900
01:36:24,600 --> 01:36:29,520
Speaker 1: people were silenced and now our rights are gone, yeah,

1901
01:36:29,640 --> 01:36:31,439
Speaker 1: or our rights are going to be taken away. We

1902
01:36:31,479 --> 01:36:33,599
Speaker 1: have no idea what else is going to be taken Yea,

1903
01:36:34,000 --> 01:36:35,800
Speaker 1: we have no idea. What else is going to get

1904
01:36:35,800 --> 01:36:38,160
Speaker 1: fucked up? We have ideas we have.

1905
01:36:38,200 --> 01:36:41,599
Speaker 2: The idea is that that Again, the problem is the

1906
01:36:41,720 --> 01:36:46,280
Speaker 2: root of the problem is that liberals work tirelessly in

1907
01:36:46,320 --> 01:36:48,880
Speaker 2: this country to stop the left from gaining any power,

1908
01:36:49,280 --> 01:36:51,840
Speaker 2: and the left works tirelessly to stop itself from having

1909
01:36:51,880 --> 01:36:55,560
Speaker 2: any kind of influence by having no capacity to organize

1910
01:36:55,800 --> 01:36:59,040
Speaker 2: or compromise with people who do not agree with whatever

1911
01:36:59,040 --> 01:37:02,400
Speaker 2: their little brand of leftism is. Right, whereas conservatives are

1912
01:37:02,400 --> 01:37:05,400
Speaker 2: willing to work together with other conservatives they hate for

1913
01:37:05,400 --> 01:37:08,160
Speaker 2: forty straight years in order to get us to the

1914
01:37:08,160 --> 01:37:11,400
Speaker 2: position that we're in. That's what happened is they had

1915
01:37:12,240 --> 01:37:16,919
Speaker 2: message discipline, they had organizing discipline, and they successfully pushed

1916
01:37:17,120 --> 01:37:20,680
Speaker 2: their madness into the mainstream in such a way that

1917
01:37:20,800 --> 01:37:23,559
Speaker 2: now the Democratic Party, in a lot of ways is

1918
01:37:23,720 --> 01:37:27,000
Speaker 2: expending a huge amount of its efforts on moving in

1919
01:37:27,040 --> 01:37:30,000
Speaker 2: the direction of that madness, especially as regards immigration. Look

1920
01:37:30,000 --> 01:37:32,160
Speaker 2: at where we've moved on immigration from twenty sixteen to

1921
01:37:32,160 --> 01:37:36,880
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. Right, That is the result of disciplined

1922
01:37:37,640 --> 01:37:41,840
Speaker 2: power building as opposed to know what liberals and the

1923
01:37:41,920 --> 01:37:44,680
Speaker 2: left to do, which is fight with each other and

1924
01:37:44,760 --> 01:37:48,680
Speaker 2: fight amongst each other and engage in a mix of

1925
01:37:48,760 --> 01:37:54,360
Speaker 2: like craven power politics and worshiping various con artists, and

1926
01:37:54,400 --> 01:37:57,080
Speaker 2: the right worships con artists too. They just actually get

1927
01:37:57,120 --> 01:37:58,000
Speaker 2: power out of the deal.

1928
01:37:58,920 --> 01:38:02,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, like this. The other terrifying thing about this story

1929
01:38:03,080 --> 01:38:06,920
Speaker 1: is that it's not fucking everywhere. It's not everywhere. Ten

1930
01:38:07,040 --> 01:38:11,360
Speaker 1: years ago, this would be the scandal of all scandals,

1931
01:38:12,320 --> 01:38:14,880
Speaker 1: and it's barely barely a headline.

1932
01:38:15,040 --> 01:38:16,519
Speaker 2: No, because no one's going to do anything about it.

1933
01:38:16,520 --> 01:38:18,679
Speaker 2: It's like, it's like Elon Musk paying people a million

1934
01:38:18,720 --> 01:38:23,040
Speaker 2: dollars a day to vote in Pennsylvania, Like that should

1935
01:38:23,080 --> 01:38:26,200
Speaker 2: be illegal. Like you can at least make a strong

1936
01:38:26,280 --> 01:38:29,480
Speaker 2: case based on existing laws that that is election interference,

1937
01:38:29,760 --> 01:38:31,559
Speaker 2: the kind of which that can land you in prison.

1938
01:38:31,720 --> 01:38:33,599
Speaker 2: Everyone knows, nothing's going to happen to him.

1939
01:38:33,840 --> 01:38:34,880
Speaker 4: Nothing's going to happen to him.

1940
01:38:34,880 --> 01:38:37,759
Speaker 2: If Kamala wins, right, if the Dims have a blowout

1941
01:38:37,800 --> 01:38:40,200
Speaker 2: and wipe up with both Houses of Congress, nothing is

1942
01:38:40,240 --> 01:38:41,719
Speaker 2: going to happen to Elon Musk.

1943
01:38:41,960 --> 01:38:45,680
Speaker 1: It's yeah, again, just like we have no idea how

1944
01:38:46,160 --> 01:38:48,240
Speaker 1: how long this is going to get throw on and

1945
01:38:48,280 --> 01:38:49,439
Speaker 1: how much worse it could get.

1946
01:38:50,160 --> 01:38:54,840
Speaker 2: And uh, yeah I have some ideas, but I podcasted

1947
01:38:54,880 --> 01:39:00,200
Speaker 2: about those back in twenty nineteen. Sophie.

1948
01:39:00,320 --> 01:39:02,559
Speaker 4: I was there. I was quite literally there.

1949
01:39:02,640 --> 01:39:03,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1950
01:39:03,360 --> 01:39:05,719
Speaker 4: But yeah, so thanks Miyah.

1951
01:39:06,080 --> 01:39:08,439
Speaker 2: That was a boomer, Thank you, Mia. No, this was good.

1952
01:39:08,720 --> 01:39:10,040
Speaker 2: I uh, this is solid.

1953
01:39:10,439 --> 01:39:11,439
Speaker 4: And again when.

1954
01:39:11,320 --> 01:39:13,479
Speaker 2: I started this by saying, my second to the last

1955
01:39:13,560 --> 01:39:16,320
Speaker 2: conversation I had in person with my mom was about Kavanaugh.

1956
01:39:16,360 --> 01:39:19,160
Speaker 2: It was hers almost screaming at me because of how

1957
01:39:19,240 --> 01:39:22,120
Speaker 2: unfair what the Democrats did to Brett Kavanaugh was because

1958
01:39:22,160 --> 01:39:24,479
Speaker 2: of the good man that they and she felt the

1959
01:39:24,520 --> 01:39:27,840
Speaker 2: same way about Clarence Thomas right that like these guys

1960
01:39:27,880 --> 01:39:31,439
Speaker 2: were the victims of media assassination attempts. She feels the

1961
01:39:31,439 --> 01:39:34,400
Speaker 2: same way about Bill Cosby. By the way, anyway, whatever,

1962
01:39:34,400 --> 01:39:37,800
Speaker 2: I don't need to yell about my mom. I've yelled

1963
01:39:37,800 --> 01:39:38,959
Speaker 2: about enough this episode.

1964
01:39:39,280 --> 01:39:41,639
Speaker 4: Tomorrow's episode will be more fun. I promise we're gonna

1965
01:39:41,840 --> 01:39:44,479
Speaker 4: We're gonna yell about why the Kunda Wild Prizes fake

1966
01:39:44,560 --> 01:39:46,040
Speaker 4: and read some of the dubbest things you've ever seen

1967
01:39:46,040 --> 01:39:46,639
Speaker 4: in your life.

1968
01:39:46,840 --> 01:39:48,920
Speaker 2: Hell, yeah, there we go. There we go, back to

1969
01:39:48,960 --> 01:39:51,759
Speaker 2: the good stuff, Back to the good stuff.

1970
01:39:52,000 --> 01:39:54,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. MEA has been deeply excited to do this episode,

1971
01:39:54,400 --> 01:39:58,160
Speaker 1: So look look out for that one. And I don't know, uh,

1972
01:39:58,400 --> 01:40:00,840
Speaker 1: touch grass and peta dog if it wants you to.

1973
01:40:01,600 --> 01:40:25,280
Speaker 10: Yeah bye, no.

1974
01:40:24,160 --> 01:40:27,120
Speaker 4: Bell prize, welcome to it could happen here a podcast

1975
01:40:27,320 --> 01:40:32,599
Speaker 4: about Nobel Prizes. I guess I'm your host via loog

1976
01:40:32,720 --> 01:40:33,400
Speaker 4: with Me with Me?

1977
01:40:33,479 --> 01:40:37,200
Speaker 11: Is James Himia excited to hear about the dynamite guy prices.

1978
01:40:37,640 --> 01:40:40,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, so, as people I think are aware, the man

1979
01:40:40,479 --> 01:40:43,840
Speaker 4: who invented dynamite established a bunch of prizes to be

1980
01:40:44,000 --> 01:40:47,839
Speaker 4: like the pinnacle of human achievement. Right, every years decided

1981
01:40:47,960 --> 01:40:49,920
Speaker 4: I'm a bunch of judges and you know, and this

1982
01:40:50,040 --> 01:40:52,400
Speaker 4: year in the Nobel Prize in physics, right, Nobel Prize

1983
01:40:52,400 --> 01:40:56,599
Speaker 4: in Physics went to two guys who did a whole

1984
01:40:56,640 --> 01:40:58,960
Speaker 4: bunch of the sort of fundamental basic work on what

1985
01:40:59,000 --> 01:41:02,840
Speaker 4: became machine learning algorithms. And as annoying as modern AI is,

1986
01:41:02,920 --> 01:41:06,080
Speaker 4: like machine learning algorithms has fundamentally changed the way that

1987
01:41:06,200 --> 01:41:08,519
Speaker 4: science works. It changed the strong and I've used it.

1988
01:41:08,560 --> 01:41:11,200
Speaker 4: I used the new astronomy like there's all this. You know,

1989
01:41:11,360 --> 01:41:15,320
Speaker 4: it has fundamentally changed the way that humanity functions. Yeah,

1990
01:41:15,400 --> 01:41:18,559
Speaker 4: it's an important discovery. Yeah, and you know, the Nobel

1991
01:41:18,600 --> 01:41:21,840
Speaker 4: Price in Medicine went to a group of people who

1992
01:41:21,960 --> 01:41:25,680
Speaker 4: discovered micro rna, which is like a different type of

1993
01:41:25,760 --> 01:41:30,760
Speaker 4: RNA that fundamentally changed the way that we understand how

1994
01:41:30,960 --> 01:41:34,960
Speaker 4: like gene regulation works. It's like a fundamental path breaking

1995
01:41:35,400 --> 01:41:37,679
Speaker 4: thing in biology. They got that, they got the fucking

1996
01:41:37,720 --> 01:41:40,519
Speaker 4: medicine double price for the Nobel Price in Economics went

1997
01:41:40,680 --> 01:41:47,080
Speaker 4: to uh three guys who discovered that institutions affect prosperity.

1998
01:41:47,600 --> 01:41:54,400
Speaker 11: Huge groundbreaking shit. It's like economists don't discover shit. They

1999
01:41:54,479 --> 01:41:58,120
Speaker 11: just they just say shit, and then other economists are like, yeah,

2000
01:41:58,120 --> 01:41:59,400
Speaker 11: cool this okay.

2001
01:42:00,040 --> 01:42:02,280
Speaker 4: So I when I was originally planning this episode, this

2002
01:42:02,320 --> 01:42:04,679
Speaker 4: is going to be an episode about the fake Nobel Prize,

2003
01:42:04,680 --> 01:42:06,760
Speaker 4: which is the economics Nobel Prize wich We've talked about

2004
01:42:06,760 --> 01:42:08,800
Speaker 4: on the show before, but it's worth saying again this

2005
01:42:08,920 --> 01:42:11,240
Speaker 4: is not a real Nobel Prize, Like, this is not

2006
01:42:11,360 --> 01:42:13,799
Speaker 4: one of the prizes that was established by Alfred Nobel.

2007
01:42:14,160 --> 01:42:17,439
Speaker 4: This was a thing established by the sweetest central Bank

2008
01:42:17,439 --> 01:42:20,760
Speaker 4: as a way to push neoliberal economics new classical economics.

2009
01:42:21,120 --> 01:42:25,679
Speaker 4: And every year they're always very stupid, is the thing, right,

2010
01:42:26,320 --> 01:42:29,000
Speaker 4: And my plan for this episode because I started seeing

2011
01:42:29,040 --> 01:42:31,080
Speaker 4: stuff about this Nobel Prize and I was looking at

2012
01:42:31,080 --> 01:42:32,240
Speaker 4: this and I was like, this is the this is

2013
01:42:32,280 --> 01:42:34,200
Speaker 4: the one of the dumbest ones they've had since they

2014
01:42:34,240 --> 01:42:36,120
Speaker 4: gave out one in the two thousands for realizing that

2015
01:42:36,160 --> 01:42:41,120
Speaker 4: people could simply not make a trade. Like But I

2016
01:42:41,160 --> 01:42:42,760
Speaker 4: was like, Okay, I'm going to go read all of

2017
01:42:42,800 --> 01:42:44,840
Speaker 4: these papers, right, We're going to come back, We're going

2018
01:42:44,920 --> 01:42:46,720
Speaker 4: to have a detail analysis of it. And and I'm

2019
01:42:46,760 --> 01:42:51,080
Speaker 4: reading these papers and it's like it's nothing these three

2020
01:42:51,080 --> 01:42:54,880
Speaker 4: economists are They're from what's called institutional economics. These are

2021
01:42:54,880 --> 01:42:57,559
Speaker 4: supposed to be the smart ones, right, These are These

2022
01:42:57,560 --> 01:43:00,080
Speaker 4: are the economists that like the neoclassical economists had to

2023
01:43:00,200 --> 01:43:02,840
Speaker 4: bring in, like the normalio classical comments has to bring in,

2024
01:43:02,880 --> 01:43:05,720
Speaker 4: because their models don't work right. And and the thing

2025
01:43:05,720 --> 01:43:07,559
Speaker 4: that makes them like quote unquote smart is that they

2026
01:43:07,640 --> 01:43:09,720
Speaker 4: understand the institutions exist, and they know how to use

2027
01:43:09,800 --> 01:43:13,720
Speaker 4: really really basic game theory models. And this makes them

2028
01:43:13,760 --> 01:43:17,720
Speaker 4: like the cutting edge, the absolute elite cutting edge of

2029
01:43:17,800 --> 01:43:21,679
Speaker 4: bortlaw economics on the front lines. What are these people discovered?

2030
01:43:21,920 --> 01:43:24,800
Speaker 4: Want the people win this prize for? Right? Okay, the

2031
01:43:24,880 --> 01:43:27,840
Speaker 4: thing that they won this prize for like the initial thing,

2032
01:43:27,960 --> 01:43:29,439
Speaker 4: and there's a couple of stuff that will get you

2033
01:43:29,479 --> 01:43:31,759
Speaker 4: in a second, but like the big thing that they

2034
01:43:31,840 --> 01:43:36,640
Speaker 4: figured out is do a series of thunderously stupid regression analyzes.

2035
01:43:37,360 --> 01:43:40,920
Speaker 4: They discovered something. I don't even know how to frame

2036
01:43:41,720 --> 01:43:44,720
Speaker 4: the magnitude of this discovery. But it took them a

2037
01:43:44,880 --> 01:43:47,960
Speaker 4: shit ton of math and like a bunch of like

2038
01:43:48,360 --> 01:43:53,160
Speaker 4: tabulations of mortality data to discover that in some places

2039
01:43:53,439 --> 01:43:57,479
Speaker 4: European colonial powers formed settular colonies and in some places

2040
01:43:57,520 --> 01:44:00,479
Speaker 4: they established colonial rule that wasn't based on settler colonies,

2041
01:44:00,479 --> 01:44:05,000
Speaker 4: and that these were different. This is what they won

2042
01:44:05,040 --> 01:44:07,879
Speaker 4: the Nobel Prize for. They did a bunch of regression

2043
01:44:07,880 --> 01:44:12,559
Speaker 4: analyses and were like, holy shit, in some places the

2044
01:44:12,600 --> 01:44:15,960
Speaker 4: Europeans did similar colonies and in some places they didn't,

2045
01:44:16,200 --> 01:44:18,400
Speaker 4: and it had to do with like disease and a

2046
01:44:18,479 --> 01:44:21,519
Speaker 4: level of redistance from the indigenous population. They won a

2047
01:44:21,560 --> 01:44:26,000
Speaker 4: Nobel Prize in Economics for this Are you fucking kidding?

2048
01:44:26,200 --> 01:44:28,640
Speaker 11: As also a paper that you could write for my

2049
01:44:28,800 --> 01:44:31,640
Speaker 11: history one ten class at community college.

2050
01:44:32,320 --> 01:44:34,960
Speaker 4: Okay, some of the discourse about this, right, the Marxist

2051
01:44:34,960 --> 01:44:40,040
Speaker 4: economist Sharramazar pointed out that, like these fundamental observations were

2052
01:44:40,080 --> 01:44:42,519
Speaker 4: made by another guy we've talked about on this show,

2053
01:44:42,640 --> 01:44:46,799
Speaker 4: the red again Marxist economist Paul Baran. And that's a

2054
01:44:46,840 --> 01:44:50,720
Speaker 4: good point. But also what I was thinking about how

2055
01:44:50,720 --> 01:44:53,479
Speaker 4: to do this episode, right, This isn't a thing like

2056
01:44:53,600 --> 01:44:55,759
Speaker 4: with like Donald Harris, like we talked abou Kabal Harris's

2057
01:44:55,800 --> 01:44:58,679
Speaker 4: dad's book, right, and that's that's a book where there's

2058
01:44:58,880 --> 01:45:00,280
Speaker 4: there's like ideas in it.

2059
01:45:00,400 --> 01:45:00,519
Speaker 3: Right.

2060
01:45:01,200 --> 01:45:02,920
Speaker 4: You can go through it and you can watch them

2061
01:45:02,960 --> 01:45:06,240
Speaker 4: developing ideas. You can't do that with this because these

2062
01:45:06,280 --> 01:45:09,840
Speaker 4: people are not developing ideas. They have discovered the most

2063
01:45:09,920 --> 01:45:14,040
Speaker 4: obvious things. They have read a single book about history,

2064
01:45:14,240 --> 01:45:16,000
Speaker 4: and they have attempted to use a bunch of regression

2065
01:45:16,000 --> 01:45:18,840
Speaker 4: analyses to prove things that like you can just read

2066
01:45:19,240 --> 01:45:22,720
Speaker 4: a Wikipedia article and discover about the course of colonization.

2067
01:45:23,280 --> 01:45:25,320
Speaker 11: Yeah, and then you can go back and to a

2068
01:45:25,320 --> 01:45:28,120
Speaker 11: bunch of aggressionalities to prove something that everyone already needs.

2069
01:45:28,200 --> 01:45:30,439
Speaker 4: Yeah. And the place that I got to about this

2070
01:45:30,560 --> 01:45:33,840
Speaker 4: is I have the shoke about Maoism where all the

2071
01:45:33,880 --> 01:45:35,720
Speaker 4: things that people get from Maoism are things that you

2072
01:45:35,720 --> 01:45:38,000
Speaker 4: should have learned in elementary school. Like one of the

2073
01:45:38,040 --> 01:45:39,840
Speaker 4: most common things you get from maoist is like, ah,

2074
01:45:39,880 --> 01:45:42,599
Speaker 4: you have to read no investigation, no right to speak,

2075
01:45:42,640 --> 01:45:48,000
Speaker 4: And like, my friend, okay, if you needed maose done

2076
01:45:48,600 --> 01:45:53,080
Speaker 4: to tell you that you needed to research something before

2077
01:45:53,120 --> 01:45:57,160
Speaker 4: you talked about it, what the fuck happened in your

2078
01:45:57,320 --> 01:46:01,280
Speaker 4: like the rest with your life? What we're wrong with

2079
01:46:01,320 --> 01:46:03,639
Speaker 4: your education? Like what has gone wrong with the way

2080
01:46:03,680 --> 01:46:06,120
Speaker 4: you think about the world that you needed? Nowse Dung

2081
01:46:06,640 --> 01:46:10,360
Speaker 4: can tell you this and this this is what most

2082
01:46:10,800 --> 01:46:13,200
Speaker 4: Nobel prizes and economics are and this is the most

2083
01:46:13,360 --> 01:46:18,160
Speaker 4: that it has ever been. So basically their argument is that, like,

2084
01:46:19,000 --> 01:46:22,040
Speaker 4: this is also an argument that Paul Baran makes is

2085
01:46:22,040 --> 01:46:24,360
Speaker 4: that like, okay, depending on whether you're dealing with a

2086
01:46:24,360 --> 01:46:28,360
Speaker 4: settler quality or a sort of like India style like

2087
01:46:28,479 --> 01:46:31,960
Speaker 4: administrative colony, I guess I'm like a term for it.

2088
01:46:31,840 --> 01:46:33,760
Speaker 11: It gets like an extractive colony, where you have more

2089
01:46:33,800 --> 01:46:36,519
Speaker 11: about extracted labor, raw materials and settling.

2090
01:46:36,640 --> 01:46:38,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, like that changes the kinds of institutions that are

2091
01:46:38,960 --> 01:46:42,519
Speaker 4: set up. And like, okay, you can if you want

2092
01:46:42,560 --> 01:46:47,760
Speaker 4: to credit Paul Baron for the discovery that like the

2093
01:46:47,840 --> 01:46:52,880
Speaker 4: settler colonies and like extractive colonies have different legal institutions

2094
01:46:52,920 --> 01:46:54,800
Speaker 4: and they function differently, and that has had long range

2095
01:46:54,880 --> 01:46:59,040
Speaker 4: economic impacts, like stretching into the future. But like this

2096
01:46:59,120 --> 01:47:00,880
Speaker 4: is something again that you you can just you can

2097
01:47:00,960 --> 01:47:04,360
Speaker 4: find in a history book and immediately understand. And these

2098
01:47:04,360 --> 01:47:06,040
Speaker 4: people have tried to do this. They're trying to like

2099
01:47:06,080 --> 01:47:09,160
Speaker 4: track the difference in why were like some colonies more

2100
01:47:09,160 --> 01:47:12,479
Speaker 4: prosperous later than other colonies. Right, They're trying to track

2101
01:47:12,560 --> 01:47:15,879
Speaker 4: this process through a whole bunch of incredibly sketchy regression

2102
01:47:15,880 --> 01:47:19,280
Speaker 4: analyzes and weird assumptions about what income is they're trying

2103
01:47:19,320 --> 01:47:22,240
Speaker 4: to track, Like why was it that like China and

2104
01:47:22,280 --> 01:47:25,320
Speaker 4: Turkey were like rich in the fifteen hundreds, but they

2105
01:47:25,479 --> 01:47:27,360
Speaker 4: ceased to be rich after that. Oh sick.

2106
01:47:27,400 --> 01:47:30,280
Speaker 11: They're doing a fucking Jared Diamond. Yeah, they're doing a

2107
01:47:30,320 --> 01:47:31,240
Speaker 11: West and the rest.

2108
01:47:31,360 --> 01:47:34,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's wonder a Jared Diamond bullshit, except you know,

2109
01:47:34,680 --> 01:47:38,880
Speaker 4: with China standard of living in Europe, if you actually

2110
01:47:38,920 --> 01:47:40,840
Speaker 4: go back to the historical record and aren't doing their

2111
01:47:40,880 --> 01:47:45,799
Speaker 4: like stupid weird like using population density as an index

2112
01:47:45,880 --> 01:47:49,360
Speaker 4: for stuff, whether they start bringing Malthus into it. If

2113
01:47:49,360 --> 01:47:51,360
Speaker 4: you don't do that and you look at like the

2114
01:47:51,439 --> 01:47:55,360
Speaker 4: actual historical record, like the average quality of life in

2115
01:47:55,479 --> 01:47:58,519
Speaker 4: China like is not eclipsed by Europe until like the

2116
01:47:58,600 --> 01:48:02,320
Speaker 4: May eighteen hundreds. Yeah, like you know, so like this

2117
01:48:02,360 --> 01:48:04,000
Speaker 4: is all this is all like very even.

2118
01:48:03,880 --> 01:48:06,759
Speaker 11: Then, like life expects in the midic and hundreds didn't

2119
01:48:06,920 --> 01:48:09,719
Speaker 11: it took decades to go up after the Industrial Revolution

2120
01:48:09,920 --> 01:48:10,599
Speaker 11: right lately.

2121
01:48:10,720 --> 01:48:12,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, Oh, this is this is sort of drawing to

2122
01:48:12,680 --> 01:48:14,840
Speaker 4: what they're trying to do here, is that like a

2123
01:48:14,840 --> 01:48:16,479
Speaker 4: lot of this is it's just it's directly it's the

2124
01:48:16,479 --> 01:48:19,000
Speaker 4: product of colonialism, right, and they sort of acknowledge that

2125
01:48:19,040 --> 01:48:21,559
Speaker 4: colonialism existed and that it was like extractive. But their

2126
01:48:21,800 --> 01:48:24,479
Speaker 4: job is to take the basic insights of history and

2127
01:48:24,520 --> 01:48:27,439
Speaker 4: depoliticize it. Right, We're going to get you later. One

2128
01:48:27,439 --> 01:48:30,839
Speaker 4: of the things they win this prize for is depoliticizing revolution,

2129
01:48:32,040 --> 01:48:35,160
Speaker 4: turning revolution into like a Nashi Colubrium game theory thing.

2130
01:48:35,520 --> 01:48:38,840
Speaker 4: Oh god, which is unbelievable. It's incredible.

2131
01:48:39,240 --> 01:48:41,280
Speaker 11: Yeah, these are the kind of people who I have

2132
01:48:41,320 --> 01:48:43,680
Speaker 11: to deal with on a daily basis on list serves,

2133
01:48:43,960 --> 01:48:47,120
Speaker 11: Like these are the economists emailing the entire list serve

2134
01:48:47,160 --> 01:48:49,479
Speaker 11: with a unique insight into something that we all you

2135
01:48:49,520 --> 01:48:53,040
Speaker 11: thirty ye, like the old faculty email list is plagued

2136
01:48:53,120 --> 01:48:54,880
Speaker 11: by this kind of individual.

2137
01:48:54,479 --> 01:48:58,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, and like like this is a thing where so

2138
01:48:58,439 --> 01:49:01,840
Speaker 4: they're absolutely convinced that, like, like the one hundred percent

2139
01:49:01,920 --> 01:49:04,320
Speaker 4: convinced that the thing that leads to economic prosperity is

2140
01:49:04,320 --> 01:49:09,840
Speaker 4: like the safeguarding of individual property rights. And like I

2141
01:49:09,840 --> 01:49:12,120
Speaker 4: will give them a little tiny bit of credit where

2142
01:49:12,120 --> 01:49:15,520
Speaker 4: they're like, well, yeah, so direct colonial institutions were attractive

2143
01:49:15,520 --> 01:49:18,240
Speaker 4: and they're bad because they infringe on property rights. And

2144
01:49:18,280 --> 01:49:22,160
Speaker 4: that's mildly better than most of these people yeah, but

2145
01:49:22,200 --> 01:49:24,360
Speaker 4: these are these are these are again, these are the

2146
01:49:24,400 --> 01:49:27,640
Speaker 4: most advanced Bushwai economists, right, they're not. They're not like

2147
01:49:27,720 --> 01:49:31,120
Speaker 4: pro Rhodesia and neoclassical guys, right, they do. They do

2148
01:49:31,160 --> 01:49:32,400
Speaker 4: have a lie where they say, we're not going to

2149
01:49:32,439 --> 01:49:34,120
Speaker 4: say when the colonialism is good or bad. And I

2150
01:49:34,120 --> 01:49:36,519
Speaker 4: think that's been misinterpreted a little bit because like in

2151
01:49:36,560 --> 01:49:39,400
Speaker 4: their work they're pretty clear that it's bad.

2152
01:49:39,680 --> 01:49:42,320
Speaker 11: They're just trying to make like a moral judgment because

2153
01:49:42,320 --> 01:49:42,920
Speaker 11: God forbid.

2154
01:49:43,040 --> 01:49:45,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, well they said, they're saying it's extractive and they

2155
01:49:45,439 --> 01:49:48,120
Speaker 4: think that like attractions bad because it's inefficients. Yeah, but

2156
01:49:48,160 --> 01:49:50,719
Speaker 4: basically the things like that, they think that like, Okay,

2157
01:49:50,720 --> 01:49:52,519
Speaker 4: so like if you if you set up like regimes

2158
01:49:52,520 --> 01:49:55,880
Speaker 4: that like safeguard private property, this will like make people

2159
01:49:56,400 --> 01:50:00,400
Speaker 4: like richer. But I want to read a quote from

2160
01:50:00,400 --> 01:50:03,679
Speaker 4: one of the papers they wrote. Quote, in comparatively poor

2161
01:50:03,720 --> 01:50:06,960
Speaker 4: and less dense populated regions where Europeans could easily settle,

2162
01:50:07,040 --> 01:50:10,400
Speaker 4: it was in the colonizer's interest to introduce inclusive economic

2163
01:50:10,439 --> 01:50:13,880
Speaker 4: institutions that helped to boost prosperity for the majority in

2164
01:50:13,920 --> 01:50:14,719
Speaker 4: the long run.

2165
01:50:15,240 --> 01:50:20,320
Speaker 12: No, now me, like they didn't go on to say

2166
01:50:20,320 --> 01:50:23,080
Speaker 12: how like yeah, but Britain built the railways in India,

2167
01:50:23,160 --> 01:50:27,160
Speaker 12: like like like.

2168
01:50:27,320 --> 01:50:29,439
Speaker 4: This is what he says, right, because what's happening here.

2169
01:50:29,520 --> 01:50:31,320
Speaker 4: You know, this is something that economists love to do.

2170
01:50:31,360 --> 01:50:33,240
Speaker 4: It's like economists love to go into other fields and

2171
01:50:33,280 --> 01:50:35,559
Speaker 4: to have to colonize them, right, Yes, Like what they're

2172
01:50:35,560 --> 01:50:37,519
Speaker 4: doing here is there they've gone into like this field

2173
01:50:37,560 --> 01:50:40,720
Speaker 4: of history. Yeah, and their attempting to colonized them, right,

2174
01:50:41,360 --> 01:50:45,280
Speaker 4: many such cases. Yeah, and you know they're looking at

2175
01:50:45,280 --> 01:50:48,160
Speaker 4: this stuff, right, and you got things like this where

2176
01:50:48,160 --> 01:50:50,439
Speaker 4: it's like no, like the economic institutions that were set

2177
01:50:50,520 --> 01:50:54,759
Speaker 4: up in like settler colonies were not designed to introduce

2178
01:50:54,760 --> 01:50:57,720
Speaker 4: inclusive economic institutions to like help boost the prosperity for

2179
01:50:57,760 --> 01:50:59,400
Speaker 4: the majority of the long run, like that was the

2180
01:50:59,439 --> 01:51:04,080
Speaker 4: result of social struggle. But they for some reason basically

2181
01:51:04,080 --> 01:51:10,080
Speaker 4: think that social struggles started in like the eighteen eighties. Yeah,

2182
01:51:10,120 --> 01:51:13,519
Speaker 4: the Noble Bell like committee, they're like econ fake Econdo

2183
01:51:13,520 --> 01:51:16,479
Speaker 4: Bell Committee like releases like a giant statement, Like there's

2184
01:51:16,479 --> 01:51:18,880
Speaker 4: like press summaries they have like a slightly more detail

2185
01:51:18,880 --> 01:51:21,000
Speaker 4: and they have like the econy one and I want

2186
01:51:21,040 --> 01:51:24,800
Speaker 4: to read this from so part of what they're doing, right,

2187
01:51:24,880 --> 01:51:27,559
Speaker 4: you're talking about like the work that was inspired by this,

2188
01:51:28,600 --> 01:51:31,519
Speaker 4: by the understanding that like the different institutions change economic

2189
01:51:31,520 --> 01:51:35,599
Speaker 4: outcomes quote better g and Ivery two thousand and five

2190
01:51:35,760 --> 01:51:38,680
Speaker 4: examined the legacy of British land institutions in India that

2191
01:51:38,720 --> 01:51:42,880
Speaker 4: gave cultivators in certain regions proprietary rights, including that productivity

2192
01:51:42,920 --> 01:51:47,560
Speaker 4: was higher in these regions post independence. Genioli and Rainier

2193
01:51:47,600 --> 01:51:55,240
Speaker 4: and Michaelopolis and Papa Iyadu studied the impact of differences

2194
01:51:55,280 --> 01:51:59,120
Speaker 4: in political centralization along ethnic groups dream dream pre colonial times.

2195
01:51:59,479 --> 01:52:02,960
Speaker 4: None documented the long run negative impacts of the slave

2196
01:52:03,120 --> 01:52:07,080
Speaker 4: trade Del ten by my non paper in two thousand

2197
01:52:07,120 --> 01:52:08,719
Speaker 4: and eight, so we'll go back to that. A second

2198
01:52:09,040 --> 01:52:11,760
Speaker 4: Del twenty ten investigated the long run effects of the

2199
01:52:11,800 --> 01:52:15,160
Speaker 4: so called meta system in operation between fifteen seventy three

2200
01:52:15,200 --> 01:52:17,840
Speaker 4: and eighteen twelve and Peru and Bolivian Peru, where men

2201
01:52:17,880 --> 01:52:20,559
Speaker 4: were forced to work in minds. Within the boundaries of

2202
01:52:20,600 --> 01:52:23,400
Speaker 4: meta household consumption was twenty five percent lower in twenty

2203
01:52:23,439 --> 01:52:26,920
Speaker 4: twenty one than just outside the boundaries. So what they

2204
01:52:26,920 --> 01:52:31,439
Speaker 4: have discovered here again in the late two thousands and

2205
01:52:31,680 --> 01:52:36,080
Speaker 4: early twenty tens, they discovered that slavery had long run

2206
01:52:36,120 --> 01:52:39,080
Speaker 4: negative economic impacts on the places where there was slavery.

2207
01:52:40,160 --> 01:52:49,640
Speaker 11: Jesus Christ, thanks for trying guys like this.

2208
01:52:48,760 --> 01:52:51,719
Speaker 4: And shit that they gave these people a Nobell prize

2209
01:52:51,720 --> 01:52:58,520
Speaker 4: for inspiring this is insane.

2210
01:52:58,680 --> 01:53:01,400
Speaker 11: You're right, economists due just love to tourists in someone

2211
01:53:01,400 --> 01:53:06,000
Speaker 11: else's discipline and like fucking have the most basic insight possible.

2212
01:53:06,080 --> 01:53:08,200
Speaker 11: Like all of these are things that would be like

2213
01:53:08,720 --> 01:53:11,760
Speaker 11: an interesting undergraduate paper, right, Like.

2214
01:53:14,080 --> 01:53:16,519
Speaker 4: Insane that these people are getting Noble.

2215
01:53:16,360 --> 01:53:18,640
Speaker 11: Prizes for this. So it's not insane, it's economics, but

2216
01:53:19,120 --> 01:53:20,280
Speaker 11: the same difference, I guess.

2217
01:53:20,640 --> 01:53:22,400
Speaker 4: All right, So speaking of economics, we need to go

2218
01:53:22,439 --> 01:53:25,280
Speaker 4: to ads because so it'll be a long term detrimental

2219
01:53:25,320 --> 01:53:28,000
Speaker 4: consequence for us. We don't, but when we come back,

2220
01:53:28,479 --> 01:53:42,639
Speaker 4: there's some more unreal bullshit. We are back, okay, So

2221
01:53:43,280 --> 01:53:46,320
Speaker 4: speaking of undergred bullshit, Well, what of the big things

2222
01:53:46,320 --> 01:53:48,840
Speaker 4: in their like initial paper where they did the whole

2223
01:53:48,880 --> 01:53:51,000
Speaker 4: Oh my god, they discovered that there's difference between settler

2224
01:53:51,040 --> 01:53:53,479
Speaker 4: colonies and like distractive colonies. One of the big things

2225
01:53:53,479 --> 01:53:54,840
Speaker 4: in that paper was they spent a whole bunch of

2226
01:53:54,880 --> 01:53:57,320
Speaker 4: time looking into it was the economic difference in these

2227
01:53:57,320 --> 01:54:02,400
Speaker 4: countries because of the climate which now, for those of

2228
01:54:02,439 --> 01:54:05,080
Speaker 4: you who are students of history, right, the thing you

2229
01:54:05,080 --> 01:54:08,080
Speaker 4: will remember is that this this was like the most

2230
01:54:08,120 --> 01:54:11,959
Speaker 4: advanced race science theory of the early eighteen hundreds. Yes,

2231
01:54:12,360 --> 01:54:15,800
Speaker 4: and these people are, like the economists are finally getting

2232
01:54:15,840 --> 01:54:19,480
Speaker 4: around to busting this. In like two thousand and four.

2233
01:54:20,439 --> 01:54:22,840
Speaker 11: They had a looked at skull measurements because I felt like,

2234
01:54:23,000 --> 01:54:28,080
Speaker 11: I feel like we're heading down that pod, like econophrenology.

2235
01:54:27,720 --> 01:54:32,880
Speaker 4: So bad, incredible. That was actually a whole thing in

2236
01:54:33,200 --> 01:54:35,800
Speaker 4: fascist Japan where they had all I can't remember if

2237
01:54:35,800 --> 01:54:37,400
Speaker 4: I ever talked about this in the episodes that I

2238
01:54:37,440 --> 01:54:39,600
Speaker 4: did on Bachelor's episodes, but they had this whole thing

2239
01:54:39,640 --> 01:54:45,000
Speaker 4: where they had like racial categorizations and like biological characteristics

2240
01:54:45,000 --> 01:54:46,640
Speaker 4: of like the races, and they would use them to

2241
01:54:46,680 --> 01:54:49,280
Speaker 4: like determine allocated efficiency of which slaves you should use

2242
01:54:49,320 --> 01:54:51,920
Speaker 4: to do what. Oh cool, cool, cool, cool cool. It

2243
01:54:52,080 --> 01:54:56,280
Speaker 4: was great and like great, I mean, like, holy fucking shit,

2244
01:54:56,480 --> 01:54:57,560
Speaker 4: it's so bad.

2245
01:54:58,800 --> 01:55:01,120
Speaker 11: They just missed that time. Those people could kick the

2246
01:55:01,120 --> 01:55:03,480
Speaker 11: shit out of a Nobel price. In like twenty twenty five,

2247
01:55:03,640 --> 01:55:04,720
Speaker 11: they came back with that stuff.

2248
01:55:04,880 --> 01:55:06,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, I get, like, you know, I mean, one of

2249
01:55:06,920 --> 01:55:08,400
Speaker 4: the things we were talking about, right, is like you

2250
01:55:08,400 --> 01:55:09,960
Speaker 4: were mentioning, is like these these are like these are

2251
01:55:09,960 --> 01:55:13,120
Speaker 4: like such obvious insights. And I remember, so I went

2252
01:55:13,160 --> 01:55:15,000
Speaker 4: to the University of Chicago, right, and that means that

2253
01:55:15,040 --> 01:55:18,680
Speaker 4: I fucking know all of these fucking ghouls, Like I

2254
01:55:18,800 --> 01:55:20,440
Speaker 4: met all the people who are going to become these

2255
01:55:20,440 --> 01:55:23,040
Speaker 4: econ dipshits. Yeah, you at ground zero for that shit.

2256
01:55:23,440 --> 01:55:25,960
Speaker 4: One of the things that's funny is that like this

2257
01:55:26,080 --> 01:55:28,400
Speaker 4: is like a particular thing of the University of Chicago ecome.

2258
01:55:28,440 --> 01:55:30,600
Speaker 4: People's like they all think they can do math and

2259
01:55:30,640 --> 01:55:32,960
Speaker 4: they can't, right, they suck at it. But one of

2260
01:55:33,040 --> 01:55:34,280
Speaker 4: the thin things I was almost like, so a bunch

2261
01:55:34,280 --> 01:55:36,440
Speaker 4: of my friends are math majors, and math majors can

2262
01:55:36,560 --> 01:55:39,000
Speaker 4: like actually do math, Like they could do the kind

2263
01:55:39,040 --> 01:55:42,800
Speaker 4: of math that's like there's no there aren't like numbers involved.

2264
01:55:43,040 --> 01:55:45,920
Speaker 4: Like it's like they're doing like field theory or some shit,

2265
01:55:46,040 --> 01:55:47,840
Speaker 4: or like they're doing a kind of math that when

2266
01:55:47,880 --> 01:55:49,640
Speaker 4: someone tries to explain it to you, they have to

2267
01:55:49,640 --> 01:55:53,280
Speaker 4: start like making diagrams of like the faces of cubes

2268
01:55:53,400 --> 01:55:55,960
Speaker 4: and then like explaining how there's like thirty two dimensional

2269
01:55:56,040 --> 01:55:59,720
Speaker 4: edges or whatever. And there's always this joke from the

2270
01:55:59,760 --> 01:56:02,000
Speaker 4: math professors where they'd be mad because like they look

2271
01:56:02,000 --> 01:56:03,920
Speaker 4: at the kondable price and they'd be like, this person made

2272
01:56:04,080 --> 01:56:08,000
Speaker 4: like an incredibly minor optimization to a trading algorithm that's

2273
01:56:08,040 --> 01:56:10,520
Speaker 4: like incredibly obvious to anyone who even sort of knows math,

2274
01:56:10,560 --> 01:56:12,240
Speaker 4: and they gave them at a mole price for this. And

2275
01:56:12,320 --> 01:56:16,440
Speaker 4: this is that before history. Yeah. So the other thing

2276
01:56:16,800 --> 01:56:22,200
Speaker 4: that they discovered, right, oh god, I I I'm trying

2277
01:56:22,200 --> 01:56:26,120
Speaker 4: to find the least depressing way to put this. They

2278
01:56:26,720 --> 01:56:34,320
Speaker 4: they discovered that there are revolutions, and they discovered that,

2279
01:56:34,600 --> 01:56:38,240
Speaker 4: like there are different interest groups in a revolution who

2280
01:56:38,240 --> 01:56:40,280
Speaker 4: have different interests and like like literally one of the

2281
01:56:40,280 --> 01:56:42,120
Speaker 4: things that they won this prize for is a paper

2282
01:56:42,160 --> 01:56:47,080
Speaker 4: where they they discovered that giving people like the franchise,

2283
01:56:47,120 --> 01:56:48,920
Speaker 4: like giving people the ability to vote, and setting up

2284
01:56:48,960 --> 01:56:50,840
Speaker 4: the welfare state was something that was done by elites

2285
01:56:50,880 --> 01:56:56,040
Speaker 4: to stop revolutions. Yeah. Again, Yeah, they have all these

2286
01:56:56,080 --> 01:56:58,880
Speaker 4: mathematical models that look very impressive until you realize they're

2287
01:56:58,920 --> 01:57:01,960
Speaker 4: just they're like incredibly stupid game theory bullshit to like

2288
01:57:02,440 --> 01:57:05,280
Speaker 4: determine whether or not a country will do a revolution.

2289
01:57:05,840 --> 01:57:08,960
Speaker 4: And their model for it basically is and they've discovered

2290
01:57:09,040 --> 01:57:12,760
Speaker 4: some some genuinely impressive insights for like a sixteen year

2291
01:57:12,840 --> 01:57:15,560
Speaker 4: old who wants to go into into political science. Right, Like,

2292
01:57:15,840 --> 01:57:20,120
Speaker 4: they discovered that, for example, elites have economic interests and

2293
01:57:20,160 --> 01:57:24,480
Speaker 4: that those economic interests are different from masses. But because

2294
01:57:24,480 --> 01:57:27,280
Speaker 4: they're economists, the only way they can conceptualize this is

2295
01:57:27,280 --> 01:57:30,680
Speaker 4: in terms of tax rates. So they make the argument,

2296
01:57:30,720 --> 01:57:33,800
Speaker 4: and this is not a joke. I am being serious

2297
01:57:33,840 --> 01:57:37,080
Speaker 4: about this. I read this fucking footnote. They make the

2298
01:57:37,280 --> 01:57:41,640
Speaker 4: argument that the overthrow of Salvador Allende was about elite

2299
01:57:41,680 --> 01:57:42,480
Speaker 4: tax rates.

2300
01:57:44,720 --> 01:57:46,280
Speaker 2: Oh, that one is fucking like.

2301
01:57:47,720 --> 01:57:52,000
Speaker 4: Jesus wept and it's so funny too. And this is

2302
01:57:52,080 --> 01:57:54,560
Speaker 4: this is like one of the biggest most obvious problems

2303
01:57:54,560 --> 01:57:56,520
Speaker 4: with their models, right, and this is this is this

2304
01:57:56,600 --> 01:57:59,520
Speaker 4: is from all the way back to like their whole

2305
01:57:59,520 --> 01:58:01,320
Speaker 4: thing about like how the institutions that were set up

2306
01:58:01,320 --> 01:58:04,560
Speaker 4: by colonialists being different affected like the long term trajectory

2307
01:58:04,560 --> 01:58:09,360
Speaker 4: of these countries. They treat these entire process because one

2308
01:58:09,400 --> 01:58:10,720
Speaker 4: of the things that they've discovered is that there are

2309
01:58:10,760 --> 01:58:13,840
Speaker 4: revolutions and counter revolutions. Because they read a Wikipedia article

2310
01:58:13,960 --> 01:58:16,560
Speaker 4: about like right wing coups in Latin America and they

2311
01:58:16,560 --> 01:58:19,800
Speaker 4: discovered that elites can do antidemocratic coups because they don't

2312
01:58:19,800 --> 01:58:21,920
Speaker 4: want their taxes to be too high. That's the only

2313
01:58:21,960 --> 01:58:24,640
Speaker 4: reason they do it. Yeah, But their discovery of this right,

2314
01:58:24,960 --> 01:58:28,320
Speaker 4: that that right wingers do antidemocratic cups to like preserve

2315
01:58:28,480 --> 01:58:32,440
Speaker 4: their wealth and political power. Right, But never, at any

2316
01:58:32,480 --> 01:58:34,680
Speaker 4: point in their process does it seem to have occurred

2317
01:58:34,720 --> 01:58:39,720
Speaker 4: to them that elites are not purely single national figures,

2318
01:58:40,040 --> 01:58:42,800
Speaker 4: and that there are in fact multinational elites and in

2319
01:58:42,840 --> 01:58:46,640
Speaker 4: fact there's something called the Central Intelligence Agency that doesn't

2320
01:58:46,720 --> 01:58:49,840
Speaker 4: come for me. These people do curse, and this is

2321
01:58:49,880 --> 01:58:51,720
Speaker 4: this is like the fundamental core of this right. It's

2322
01:58:51,720 --> 01:58:54,040
Speaker 4: like these models talk about sort of like elite distraction, right,

2323
01:58:54,080 --> 01:58:56,880
Speaker 4: but it's all framed through the language of sort of

2324
01:58:56,920 --> 01:59:00,800
Speaker 4: like taxes or like rents, basically like make thinking like

2325
01:59:00,920 --> 01:59:02,879
Speaker 4: land ranch or like they're fighting over a surplus.

2326
01:59:03,000 --> 01:59:03,120
Speaker 1: Right.

2327
01:59:03,120 --> 01:59:05,960
Speaker 4: Okay, but what they're trying to do is depoliticize how

2328
01:59:06,000 --> 01:59:07,920
Speaker 4: this actually works, because the thing you're trying to present

2329
01:59:08,200 --> 01:59:13,040
Speaker 4: is that all extraction happens through the state, right, Yeah,

2330
01:59:13,240 --> 01:59:15,240
Speaker 4: Like the state is the tool that at least use

2331
01:59:15,320 --> 01:59:17,600
Speaker 4: And now if you think about those about five seconds,

2332
01:59:17,600 --> 01:59:20,320
Speaker 4: we like, well, no, obviously, like there's an exploitation in

2333
01:59:20,400 --> 01:59:24,000
Speaker 4: like the workplace that's actually in these right military statorships,

2334
01:59:24,000 --> 01:59:26,600
Speaker 4: that's actually like the primary place where extraction happens. Where

2335
01:59:26,600 --> 01:59:29,880
Speaker 4: you shoot all the union organizers and then you fucking

2336
01:59:30,040 --> 01:59:31,520
Speaker 4: force solved the peasants to work in the fields and

2337
01:59:31,520 --> 01:59:32,360
Speaker 4: shoot them if they don't.

2338
01:59:32,600 --> 01:59:32,760
Speaker 3: Right.

2339
01:59:33,960 --> 01:59:35,600
Speaker 4: But but what what they're doing is attempting to sort

2340
01:59:35,600 --> 01:59:38,960
Speaker 4: of depoliticize the deep plicize this entire process. This is

2341
01:59:39,000 --> 01:59:41,360
Speaker 4: what I'm talking about. Like they are the most advanced

2342
01:59:41,400 --> 01:59:45,280
Speaker 4: bushwiw economists, and being the most advanced bushwise economists, they

2343
01:59:45,280 --> 01:59:48,800
Speaker 4: have finally figured out that the whole they call it

2344
01:59:48,840 --> 01:59:51,440
Speaker 4: modernization theory. That's not really what modernization theory is. But

2345
01:59:52,120 --> 01:59:54,560
Speaker 4: they're economists. They're fucking stupid. They don't know anything. You

2346
01:59:55,120 --> 01:59:57,840
Speaker 4: can't judge them for not actually knowing what modernization theory is.

2347
01:59:58,040 --> 02:00:01,080
Speaker 4: But they finally discovered that the old old line about

2348
02:00:01,120 --> 02:00:07,400
Speaker 4: how economic development and evidently brought democracy was wrong. Again,

2349
02:00:07,720 --> 02:00:11,600
Speaker 4: huge insight here. Yeah, but this this brings them into

2350
02:00:11,640 --> 02:00:16,040
Speaker 4: the world of democratic transitions. Now, after we come back

2351
02:00:16,040 --> 02:00:17,760
Speaker 4: from these ad breaks, I would to read you the

2352
02:00:17,760 --> 02:00:20,320
Speaker 4: most thunderously stupid line I've ever read in a paper

2353
02:00:20,320 --> 02:00:22,440
Speaker 4: in my entire life. And that is fucking saying something

2354
02:00:22,480 --> 02:00:24,800
Speaker 4: given how many eCOM papers I've read. Yeah, you've been

2355
02:00:24,840 --> 02:00:39,720
Speaker 4: in the trenches. Okay, oh god, let mean let me

2356
02:00:39,800 --> 02:00:42,120
Speaker 4: let me, let me read this line. This is This

2357
02:00:42,160 --> 02:00:48,800
Speaker 4: is a quote from the the ECON Nobel Prizes site.

2358
02:00:49,520 --> 02:00:52,920
Speaker 4: In the two thousand and sixth book, the two of

2359
02:00:53,000 --> 02:00:56,320
Speaker 4: the three economists made an ambitious attempt to provide quote,

2360
02:00:56,360 --> 02:01:00,480
Speaker 4: the first systematic formal analysis of the creation and consultalidation

2361
02:01:00,600 --> 02:01:10,280
Speaker 4: of democracy, the first. This is very funny. This is

2362
02:01:10,320 --> 02:01:11,240
Speaker 4: fucking insane.

2363
02:01:11,560 --> 02:01:14,880
Speaker 11: This is like an entire field of international relations, of

2364
02:01:14,920 --> 02:01:15,720
Speaker 11: political science.

2365
02:01:15,720 --> 02:01:20,760
Speaker 4: This is shit. Not notice that there are literally multiple disciplines.

2366
02:01:20,960 --> 02:01:23,280
Speaker 4: This is an entire field of study, right, like I

2367
02:01:23,720 --> 02:01:26,200
Speaker 4: have read it, Like obviously, this is an entire matcho

2368
02:01:26,200 --> 02:01:28,760
Speaker 4: political science. This is an entire branch of international relations.

2369
02:01:28,800 --> 02:01:32,160
Speaker 4: This is an entire branch of sociology. There's like there's

2370
02:01:32,200 --> 02:01:35,160
Speaker 4: like an anthropological school kind of that that's about this.

2371
02:01:35,240 --> 02:01:39,400
Speaker 11: They're interdisciplinary fucking institute, So that exists for this reason.

2372
02:01:39,880 --> 02:01:42,760
Speaker 11: Like this is shit that I studied from people who

2373
02:01:42,840 --> 02:01:45,560
Speaker 11: wrote books about it in the nineteen fifties.

2374
02:01:46,280 --> 02:01:49,040
Speaker 4: Like this is like like you and The funny thing

2375
02:01:49,080 --> 02:01:52,400
Speaker 4: is they are they literally quote people who are writing

2376
02:01:52,440 --> 02:01:58,320
Speaker 4: about this from the ages. People have been studying this

2377
02:01:58,440 --> 02:02:01,400
Speaker 4: for fucking it as long as they're it has been democracy.

2378
02:02:01,920 --> 02:02:05,040
Speaker 4: People have been studying this shita their ECON thing. They

2379
02:02:05,080 --> 02:02:07,440
Speaker 4: always was like, oh, nobody ever did formal analysis before.

2380
02:02:07,440 --> 02:02:10,520
Speaker 4: It's like, have you ever fucking read have you read

2381
02:02:10,520 --> 02:02:14,120
Speaker 4: a poly side paper? I understand, I too dropped my

2382
02:02:14,200 --> 02:02:16,839
Speaker 4: public policy major the moment I realized that public policy

2383
02:02:16,920 --> 02:02:20,680
Speaker 4: was just fucking econ with the lines in the graph relabeled, Yeah,

2384
02:02:20,680 --> 02:02:23,160
Speaker 4: have you ever fucking read one of these papers? Like

2385
02:02:23,640 --> 02:02:26,320
Speaker 4: you actually have a chance of understanding them because they

2386
02:02:26,320 --> 02:02:28,800
Speaker 4: are you know, okay, I can't bet you mean to

2387
02:02:28,840 --> 02:02:31,320
Speaker 4: political science. They are about one hundred and fifty times

2388
02:02:31,320 --> 02:02:33,840
Speaker 4: more advanced than the ECON papers on this subject. But

2389
02:02:33,880 --> 02:02:36,480
Speaker 4: that's still not like a very high level of advancement, right,

2390
02:02:36,800 --> 02:02:39,680
Speaker 4: But like still they're like they have formal models of this,

2391
02:02:39,800 --> 02:02:42,920
Speaker 4: They've done all the stupid math bullshit, the sociologists done

2392
02:02:42,920 --> 02:02:47,080
Speaker 4: all the number crunching, Like okay, okay, here's another go

2393
02:02:47,240 --> 02:02:49,680
Speaker 4: from this. The authors start the paper by showing that

2394
02:02:49,720 --> 02:02:53,440
Speaker 4: democratic transitions are precipitated by falls in GDP per capita.

2395
02:02:54,000 --> 02:02:59,920
Speaker 4: They discovered this two nineteen. I was having Twitter argument,

2396
02:03:00,400 --> 02:03:04,160
Speaker 4: like arguments again with like sixteen year olds on Twitter

2397
02:03:04,440 --> 02:03:08,560
Speaker 4: in like twenty sixteen about what the relationship between revolutions

2398
02:03:08,600 --> 02:03:11,440
Speaker 4: and declining and raising living standards were. Like this was

2399
02:03:11,840 --> 02:03:13,800
Speaker 4: Twitter discourse, right.

2400
02:03:13,840 --> 02:03:19,800
Speaker 11: This is seven years after the Arab Spring, just twenty nine.

2401
02:03:19,960 --> 02:03:24,400
Speaker 4: Yes, insane, they discovered this. Yeah, so they do form

2402
02:03:24,440 --> 02:03:25,000
Speaker 4: an analyzes.

2403
02:03:25,080 --> 02:03:28,160
Speaker 11: Is the Arab Spring famously the first and only democratic

2404
02:03:28,200 --> 02:03:29,440
Speaker 11: transition that's ever happened?

2405
02:03:29,760 --> 02:03:33,560
Speaker 4: No, that's like two recents. Okay, they're all all their stuff.

2406
02:03:33,600 --> 02:03:35,280
Speaker 4: Is what they call the quote the second wave of

2407
02:03:35,320 --> 02:03:37,880
Speaker 4: democratic transitions, which is the second wave of all because

2408
02:03:37,880 --> 02:03:40,320
Speaker 4: they're two social idiots, so that they're talking about the

2409
02:03:41,000 --> 02:03:44,760
Speaker 4: protomocracy movements in the eighties in Latin America and you,

2410
02:03:44,880 --> 02:03:48,640
Speaker 4: Sasha great, Yeah, which they also were just thunderously wrong

2411
02:03:48,640 --> 02:03:50,680
Speaker 4: about like all of the time. Yeah, I was gonna say,

2412
02:03:50,880 --> 02:03:52,200
Speaker 4: I can't wait to hear what they have to say

2413
02:03:52,200 --> 02:03:55,200
Speaker 4: about those. I'm literally not even gonna talk about it

2414
02:03:55,240 --> 02:03:57,640
Speaker 4: because it's nothing. It's just like air.

2415
02:03:58,160 --> 02:04:01,640
Speaker 11: I'm just looking up a very insightful paper that Ali

2416
02:04:01,720 --> 02:04:04,680
Speaker 11: Khadeva wrote, who I've been feuded several times, so different things.

2417
02:04:04,880 --> 02:04:08,600
Speaker 4: It's called stick stones and Molotovs cocktails that it.

2418
02:04:08,560 --> 02:04:11,640
Speaker 11: Is a fantastic analysis of democratic transitions. It's about like

2419
02:04:12,320 --> 02:04:16,360
Speaker 11: the strategic use of violence against property and the correlation

2420
02:04:16,440 --> 02:04:20,120
Speaker 11: it has between like successful democratic transition movements.

2421
02:04:20,240 --> 02:04:23,240
Speaker 4: It's good paper read that. Yeah, there's a lot of

2422
02:04:23,280 --> 02:04:25,600
Speaker 4: great like analysis. We'll put that in like the notes here.

2423
02:04:25,640 --> 02:04:27,960
Speaker 4: There's a lot of great analysis of this. But what

2424
02:04:27,960 --> 02:04:29,280
Speaker 4: they're trying to do is they're trying to build this

2425
02:04:29,360 --> 02:04:33,080
Speaker 4: model where they're like looking at like basically bargaining between

2426
02:04:33,120 --> 02:04:34,680
Speaker 4: like the masses and elites to decide whether you do

2427
02:04:34,720 --> 02:04:36,640
Speaker 4: a revolution or a counter revolution. And they're trying to

2428
02:04:36,640 --> 02:04:39,320
Speaker 4: build like a game theory model based on like fuck

2429
02:04:39,400 --> 02:04:42,560
Speaker 4: off the elites and like give ranting concessions and when

2430
02:04:42,600 --> 02:04:44,920
Speaker 4: they don'te grant concessions, and whether people believe they're getting

2431
02:04:44,920 --> 02:04:47,160
Speaker 4: grant concession. The other thing that's also very stupid about this, right,

2432
02:04:47,200 --> 02:04:49,320
Speaker 4: is that like the thing that they're interested in is

2433
02:04:49,440 --> 02:04:53,560
Speaker 4: why or why not people like believe that the olibal

2434
02:04:53,600 --> 02:04:56,640
Speaker 4: economical forms are going to work? And a lot of

2435
02:04:56,720 --> 02:05:01,640
Speaker 4: democratic transitions are also about like resistance to that shit. Yeah,

2436
02:05:01,680 --> 02:05:04,440
Speaker 4: like the revolutions to Dan for example, like he is

2437
02:05:04,480 --> 02:05:06,440
Speaker 4: a proto Marcus move, but like it is also in

2438
02:05:06,560 --> 02:05:10,040
Speaker 4: large part a reaction to imf in constructural reforms. These

2439
02:05:10,080 --> 02:05:11,960
Speaker 4: people all think are good and will like cause long

2440
02:05:12,040 --> 02:05:14,760
Speaker 4: term prospority and like a lot of the democratic disitions

2441
02:05:14,760 --> 02:05:17,520
Speaker 4: they're talking about, like like, for example, again Pinochet, right,

2442
02:05:17,720 --> 02:05:20,000
Speaker 4: like that was like you know, and like obviously the

2443
02:05:20,080 --> 02:05:22,960
Speaker 4: protomocracy reformers did more neoliberalism, but like a part of

2444
02:05:23,000 --> 02:05:24,680
Speaker 4: the part of the reason like that stuff worked was

2445
02:05:24,720 --> 02:05:29,440
Speaker 4: because Pinochet ran the economy into the graduating yeah, right,

2446
02:05:29,560 --> 02:05:32,200
Speaker 4: which is what he was sad to do. But yeah,

2447
02:05:32,320 --> 02:05:35,720
Speaker 4: but like I want to close it on two things. One,

2448
02:05:36,360 --> 02:05:40,480
Speaker 4: I want to read this line right from I'm talking

2449
02:05:40,520 --> 02:05:42,520
Speaker 4: about like the advances in their papers. This is again

2450
02:05:42,640 --> 02:05:46,160
Speaker 4: from the equitible prize thing. Yea quote in the earlier models.

2451
02:05:46,160 --> 02:05:48,880
Speaker 4: The probability that the masses are successful when they stage

2452
02:05:48,880 --> 02:05:52,320
Speaker 4: a revolution is always one. But this is a strong

2453
02:05:52,360 --> 02:05:55,960
Speaker 4: assumption that does not reflect real world events very well.

2454
02:05:57,080 --> 02:06:01,560
Speaker 4: They published a paper about how people make a decision

2455
02:06:01,640 --> 02:06:04,400
Speaker 4: to do a revolution. This was peer reviewed in an

2456
02:06:04,400 --> 02:06:07,000
Speaker 4: economics journal. It's one of the papers that incited in

2457
02:06:07,080 --> 02:06:09,800
Speaker 4: the noble price they gave them when they assumed that

2458
02:06:09,840 --> 02:06:15,040
Speaker 4: revolutions always succeed. Yeah, Nobel Prize, And the second paper

2459
02:06:15,080 --> 02:06:19,440
Speaker 4: was one they realized, Holy shit, that's not true, mom mouth,

2460
02:06:19,600 --> 02:06:21,680
Speaker 4: isn't it. This is the kind of assumption that these

2461
02:06:21,800 --> 02:06:24,840
Speaker 4: absolute fucking morons make all of the time, all of

2462
02:06:24,880 --> 02:06:26,160
Speaker 4: the funk. This is why they had to bring in

2463
02:06:26,160 --> 02:06:28,320
Speaker 4: the institucial columnists in the first place, to bring the

2464
02:06:28,360 --> 02:06:31,240
Speaker 4: shit in, right, because like, they're basic models of how

2465
02:06:31,400 --> 02:06:33,560
Speaker 4: humans work. Were like every single human like sits out

2466
02:06:33,600 --> 02:06:36,400
Speaker 4: and calculates a fucking utility curve figure out where they're

2467
02:06:36,400 --> 02:06:38,240
Speaker 4: going to brush their hair in the morning. Was obviously

2468
02:06:38,240 --> 02:06:39,480
Speaker 4: not true. That's what I had to bring in game

2469
02:06:39,520 --> 02:06:40,240
Speaker 4: theory in the first place.

2470
02:06:40,320 --> 02:06:40,480
Speaker 9: Right.

2471
02:06:40,720 --> 02:06:43,960
Speaker 4: They make stupid assumptions like this literally all the time.

2472
02:06:44,840 --> 02:06:47,200
Speaker 4: And again, this is one of the ones they're making

2473
02:06:47,240 --> 02:06:48,600
Speaker 4: in one of the papers that was cited in here

2474
02:06:48,640 --> 02:06:50,400
Speaker 4: as the reason they want to know what price in economics.

2475
02:06:50,680 --> 02:06:53,160
Speaker 11: Yeah, I want to read this models off Cocktail's paper

2476
02:06:53,360 --> 02:06:56,560
Speaker 11: to everyone. Here's a fun little sentence, and event history

2477
02:06:56,600 --> 02:06:59,960
Speaker 11: analysis finds it, right, so positively associated with political liberalizing

2478
02:07:00,200 --> 02:07:02,640
Speaker 11: in one hundred and three non democracies from nineteen ninety

2479
02:07:02,680 --> 02:07:05,720
Speaker 11: to two thousand and four attacks by civilians on police

2480
02:07:05,720 --> 02:07:08,920
Speaker 11: stations during the January twenty fifth Egyptian Revolution illustrate one

2481
02:07:08,960 --> 02:07:11,840
Speaker 11: way in which un noncollective violence can bring about a

2482
02:07:11,840 --> 02:07:17,680
Speaker 11: democratic breakthrough. Incredible, thank you, We love to see it.

2483
02:07:18,160 --> 02:07:22,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, we love this. That's a pretty normal thing from like,

2484
02:07:22,280 --> 02:07:23,880
Speaker 4: I guess you would call it like the center left

2485
02:07:23,960 --> 02:07:27,000
Speaker 4: of like Democrats edition studies stuff. Right, Yeah, it's the

2486
02:07:27,040 --> 02:07:30,280
Speaker 4: sociology paper. Yeah, that's like a pretty normal it's like

2487
02:07:30,320 --> 02:07:33,440
Speaker 4: a good life, a good paper. This is from one

2488
02:07:33,440 --> 02:07:35,680
Speaker 4: of the books written by the people who won the

2489
02:07:35,720 --> 02:07:40,120
Speaker 4: Economics Nobel Prize. Quote. Chapter six explains why several European

2490
02:07:40,120 --> 02:07:43,480
Speaker 4: countries have managed to build broadly participatory societies capable but

2491
02:07:43,520 --> 02:07:46,840
Speaker 4: still shackled states. Our answer focuses on the factor is

2492
02:07:46,880 --> 02:07:49,600
Speaker 4: that led much of Europe towards the corridor during the

2493
02:07:49,640 --> 02:07:52,760
Speaker 4: early Middle Ages, as Germanic tribes, especially the Franks, came

2494
02:07:52,800 --> 02:07:56,520
Speaker 4: to invade lands dominated by the Western Roman Empire. Afterwards collapse,

2495
02:07:56,880 --> 02:07:59,840
Speaker 4: we argue, but the marriage of bottom up participatory is

2496
02:07:59,840 --> 02:08:04,280
Speaker 4: a tutions and norms of dramatic tribes and the centralizing

2497
02:08:04,320 --> 02:08:07,960
Speaker 4: bureaucratic and legal traditions of the Roman Empire forged a

2498
02:08:08,080 --> 02:08:11,280
Speaker 4: unique balance of power between the state and society enabling

2499
02:08:11,400 --> 02:08:15,520
Speaker 4: the rise of the.

2500
02:08:15,400 --> 02:08:18,080
Speaker 2: Oh god, me.

2501
02:08:20,960 --> 02:08:21,680
Speaker 4: Is so depressing.

2502
02:08:21,760 --> 02:08:24,480
Speaker 11: I spent ten years getting a PhD in history and

2503
02:08:24,520 --> 02:08:26,320
Speaker 11: they've just given these people a Nobel Prize.

2504
02:08:26,360 --> 02:08:31,640
Speaker 4: But like Jordan Peterson ship, they have discovered. But this

2505
02:08:31,680 --> 02:08:34,520
Speaker 4: is the thing, Like these people have discovered the concept

2506
02:08:34,560 --> 02:08:39,080
Speaker 4: of history. Yeah, and they've read like four Wikipedia articles

2507
02:08:39,400 --> 02:08:43,320
Speaker 4: and they've used those Wikipedia articles they started doing regression analysis. Yeah,

2508
02:08:43,520 --> 02:08:46,839
Speaker 4: and this is this is what they want a Nobel prize. Yeah,

2509
02:08:46,880 --> 02:08:51,880
Speaker 4: this is fake Nobel prize. Like again, like I've been

2510
02:08:51,880 --> 02:08:54,680
Speaker 4: thinking about, like you know, in physics, what you have

2511
02:08:54,760 --> 02:08:57,000
Speaker 4: to do to win a Nobel Prize. You have to

2512
02:08:57,120 --> 02:09:01,360
Speaker 4: make a prediction about the fundamental nature of the universe

2513
02:09:01,560 --> 02:09:05,040
Speaker 4: that can only be tested by building a fucking machine

2514
02:09:05,600 --> 02:09:09,320
Speaker 4: that can measure a vibration of gravitational ways, which is

2515
02:09:09,320 --> 02:09:11,880
Speaker 4: a It has to be able to measure a ripple

2516
02:09:11,960 --> 02:09:15,120
Speaker 4: in the fabric of space time that is smaller than

2517
02:09:15,160 --> 02:09:18,960
Speaker 4: the diameter of the fucking nucleus of an atom. That

2518
02:09:19,080 --> 02:09:20,360
Speaker 4: is what you have to do to win the Nobel

2519
02:09:20,400 --> 02:09:22,400
Speaker 4: Prize in physics. What you have to do to win

2520
02:09:22,440 --> 02:09:31,960
Speaker 4: the Nobel Prize in economics is realize that institutions affect prosparity. Jesus,

2521
02:09:33,480 --> 02:09:38,200
Speaker 4: I just cannot this has been. This has been the

2522
02:09:38,360 --> 02:09:42,760
Speaker 4: ViBe's econdoble Prize episode. I don't know. I hope this

2523
02:09:42,840 --> 02:09:47,440
Speaker 4: made your day slightly slightly better, because holy shit, this

2524
02:09:47,520 --> 02:09:49,480
Speaker 4: is the fakest prize in the entire world.

2525
02:09:49,840 --> 02:09:52,800
Speaker 11: Shout out to the economists like I guess I'm eagerly

2526
02:09:52,840 --> 02:09:55,800
Speaker 11: awaiting you discovering some other ship from my one oh

2527
02:09:55,840 --> 02:09:58,880
Speaker 11: one class. Feel free to sign up at anytime if

2528
02:09:58,880 --> 02:10:01,280
Speaker 11: you want to get a noble fi prize in economics.

2529
02:10:01,320 --> 02:10:03,560
Speaker 4: I guess ah. All right, well this has been. It

2530
02:10:03,560 --> 02:10:07,040
Speaker 4: could happen here. I will return.

2531
02:10:07,320 --> 02:10:09,800
Speaker 11: Yeah, next time we give an economy's surprised for tying

2532
02:10:09,800 --> 02:10:10,360
Speaker 11: the issues of.

2533
02:10:10,400 --> 02:10:34,640
Speaker 7: Something this is it could happen here today. I'm your host,

2534
02:10:34,840 --> 02:10:39,600
Speaker 7: Garrison Davis, and they're sure has been a lot happening

2535
02:10:39,720 --> 02:10:43,920
Speaker 7: this past year. I am kind of feeling emotionally exhausted

2536
02:10:44,000 --> 02:10:47,800
Speaker 7: and just numb in general. It's a different feeling from

2537
02:10:47,800 --> 02:10:52,520
Speaker 7: the political desensitization that my job usually provides me. I'm

2538
02:10:52,680 --> 02:10:57,080
Speaker 7: frankly still recovering from attending the DNC, even more so

2539
02:10:57,160 --> 02:11:00,240
Speaker 7: than the RNC. At the RNC I knew I was

2540
02:11:00,240 --> 02:11:02,720
Speaker 7: going to be walking through the pits of hell, and

2541
02:11:03,240 --> 02:11:08,000
Speaker 7: despite the immense evil on display, the side show conspiracy

2542
02:11:08,040 --> 02:11:12,600
Speaker 7: theory freak nature of the event made it almost absurdly amusing.

2543
02:11:13,640 --> 02:11:18,920
Speaker 7: But the DNC kind of broke me between the infighting

2544
02:11:18,960 --> 02:11:23,360
Speaker 7: among Palestine protesters and the insistence from the official organizers

2545
02:11:23,400 --> 02:11:27,120
Speaker 7: TM to oppose any course of action that would actually

2546
02:11:27,120 --> 02:11:30,680
Speaker 7: disrupt the event or apply pressure to attendees and instead

2547
02:11:30,800 --> 02:11:33,920
Speaker 7: just use the Palestine protests to promote their little socialist

2548
02:11:33,920 --> 02:11:38,520
Speaker 7: newspapers and political orgs. Meanwhile, inside the actual event, I

2549
02:11:38,600 --> 02:11:41,000
Speaker 7: was surrounded by some of the richest and most powerful

2550
02:11:41,000 --> 02:11:44,320
Speaker 7: people I had ever been around, and just watching them

2551
02:11:44,440 --> 02:11:48,640
Speaker 7: maintain their like kamala Is bracked party atmosphere at all

2552
02:11:48,720 --> 02:11:52,720
Speaker 7: costs and purposely blind themselves to the atrocities happening around

2553
02:11:52,720 --> 02:11:59,480
Speaker 7: the world, especially Gaza, was a deeply unsettling experience. Like

2554
02:11:59,800 --> 02:12:02,600
Speaker 7: they're supposed to be the if not the good guys,

2555
02:12:02,920 --> 02:12:06,800
Speaker 7: at least the better guys or the less openly fascist guys,

2556
02:12:07,640 --> 02:12:10,720
Speaker 7: and like among the American right wings, unprecedented focus and

2557
02:12:11,080 --> 02:12:14,760
Speaker 7: organized attack on trans rights. This was the first d

2558
02:12:14,920 --> 02:12:18,440
Speaker 7: n C SINS twenty twelve to not feature a trans speaker,

2559
02:12:18,920 --> 02:12:22,640
Speaker 7: and trans people were never directly mentioned during the convention's

2560
02:12:22,720 --> 02:12:27,480
Speaker 7: prime time speaking slots. And now with the election ramping

2561
02:12:27,560 --> 02:12:31,440
Speaker 7: up and the Southeast still recovering from two devastating hurricanes,

2562
02:12:32,080 --> 02:12:35,280
Speaker 7: Israel escalating tensions with Iran, and with the backing of

2563
02:12:35,280 --> 02:12:39,000
Speaker 7: the United States continuing strikes in Lebanon and Palestine, I

2564
02:12:39,040 --> 02:12:42,920
Speaker 7: am just feeling more lost and discombobulated than I have

2565
02:12:43,000 --> 02:12:43,760
Speaker 7: been in years.

2566
02:12:45,080 --> 02:12:46,480
Speaker 4: So to cheer.

2567
02:12:46,280 --> 02:12:49,840
Speaker 7: Myself up, I decided to go to a Charlie Kirk

2568
02:12:49,960 --> 02:12:55,160
Speaker 7: and vivek Ramaswami rally at Georgia State University. Now to

2569
02:12:55,240 --> 02:12:59,160
Speaker 7: some that may sound just completely bat shit or perhaps

2570
02:12:59,360 --> 02:13:02,760
Speaker 7: some form of bizarre self harm, but look like I've

2571
02:13:02,760 --> 02:13:06,200
Speaker 7: been covering far right rallies and writing about these weird

2572
02:13:06,240 --> 02:13:10,760
Speaker 7: conservative influencers for years now, it's almost second nature to me.

2573
02:13:11,600 --> 02:13:16,000
Speaker 7: Going to these events can feel paradoxically relaxing, even though

2574
02:13:16,000 --> 02:13:19,400
Speaker 7: it may trigger some stress. My body just kind of

2575
02:13:19,400 --> 02:13:23,720
Speaker 7: subconsciously knows what to do in environments like this. The

2576
02:13:23,880 --> 02:13:28,160
Speaker 7: RNC was so easy, it's like an autopilot just takes over,

2577
02:13:28,760 --> 02:13:31,280
Speaker 7: and so I thought going to this Turning Point USA

2578
02:13:31,360 --> 02:13:34,760
Speaker 7: event might help reset my brain by giving myself a

2579
02:13:34,760 --> 02:13:38,440
Speaker 7: simple task that I know I can excel at. But

2580
02:13:38,640 --> 02:13:42,280
Speaker 7: before we get into all that, first, for those more

2581
02:13:42,360 --> 02:13:46,440
Speaker 7: fortunate than I, here's some background on Charlie Kirk, also

2582
02:13:46,560 --> 02:13:49,600
Speaker 7: known as the far right podcaster with the Smallest Face.

2583
02:13:50,200 --> 02:13:54,400
Speaker 7: As a teenager, back in twenty twelve, Charles J. Kirk

2584
02:13:54,760 --> 02:13:59,400
Speaker 7: co founded in organization for campus conservatives called Turning Point USA,

2585
02:14:00,200 --> 02:14:02,880
Speaker 7: and then in twenty nineteen he founded a sister organization

2586
02:14:03,040 --> 02:14:07,240
Speaker 7: called Turning Point Action, which focuses on elections and conservative

2587
02:14:07,240 --> 02:14:11,680
Speaker 7: political advocacy. Though initially more aligned with the so called

2588
02:14:11,840 --> 02:14:15,880
Speaker 7: alt light rather than the alt right, Kirk has slowly

2589
02:14:16,000 --> 02:14:18,400
Speaker 7: moved farther and farther to the right during the past

2590
02:14:18,480 --> 02:14:21,920
Speaker 7: ten years, and by twenty twenty he embraced election fraud,

2591
02:14:21,960 --> 02:14:26,600
Speaker 7: COVID nineteen, and vaccine conspiracy theories. Also during twenty twenty,

2592
02:14:26,760 --> 02:14:30,400
Speaker 7: he started his own podcast, The Charlie Kirk Show, which

2593
02:14:30,480 --> 02:14:34,160
Speaker 7: is now somehow ranked as the number seven podcast for

2594
02:14:34,320 --> 02:14:36,160
Speaker 7: news in Apple Podcasts.

2595
02:14:36,640 --> 02:14:37,600
Speaker 4: So that's not good.

2596
02:14:38,880 --> 02:14:42,120
Speaker 7: At this point, Charlie has kind of taken the place of,

2597
02:14:42,240 --> 02:14:46,880
Speaker 7: if not surpassed, the role that was previously occupied by

2598
02:14:46,920 --> 02:14:50,760
Speaker 7: Stephen Crowder before his fall from grace isteming from his

2599
02:14:50,840 --> 02:14:54,120
Speaker 7: breakup with Ben Shapiro and the allegations of abusing his

2600
02:14:54,240 --> 02:14:58,920
Speaker 7: ex wife. Through the Turning Point Action organization, Kirk is

2601
02:14:59,320 --> 02:15:02,960
Speaker 7: more tight with the actual mechanisms of the Republican Party

2602
02:15:03,280 --> 02:15:07,200
Speaker 7: then even the Daily Wire is just This past Wednesday,

2603
02:15:07,440 --> 02:15:10,880
Speaker 7: Turning Point Action hosted a rally for Trump in Duluth, Georgia,

2604
02:15:10,920 --> 02:15:14,200
Speaker 7: just outside of Atlanta. Trump spoke at this event, and

2605
02:15:14,280 --> 02:15:19,680
Speaker 7: Tucker Carlson made a very fascist speech advocating to refuse

2606
02:15:19,720 --> 02:15:23,320
Speaker 7: the results of the election if Trump loses, and likening

2607
02:15:23,320 --> 02:15:27,280
Speaker 7: Trump to a quote unquote daddy figure, needing to punish

2608
02:15:27,320 --> 02:15:31,040
Speaker 7: the country for being a quote unquote bad girl the

2609
02:15:31,120 --> 02:15:36,120
Speaker 7: past four years. It's a huge indictment against Americans, deeply

2610
02:15:36,280 --> 02:15:37,520
Speaker 7: Freudian politics.

2611
02:15:38,680 --> 02:15:39,000
Speaker 4: Now.

2612
02:15:39,320 --> 02:15:42,200
Speaker 7: The event that I attended on October twenty first was

2613
02:15:42,240 --> 02:15:46,680
Speaker 7: a part of Charlie Kirk's You're Being Brainwashed tour, where

2614
02:15:46,840 --> 02:15:50,000
Speaker 7: Kirk and friends travel from swing state to swing state

2615
02:15:50,160 --> 02:15:53,680
Speaker 7: to debate college students on camera about why Trump is

2616
02:15:53,720 --> 02:15:59,040
Speaker 7: the better candidate. Charlie's focus on debating unprepared college students

2617
02:15:59,200 --> 02:16:01,000
Speaker 7: shows how he he has kind of picked up the

2618
02:16:01,040 --> 02:16:05,360
Speaker 7: baton from Stephen Crowder and his old change My mind videos,

2619
02:16:06,280 --> 02:16:10,360
Speaker 7: but this year specifically, Charlie's version of this college debate

2620
02:16:10,680 --> 02:16:14,520
Speaker 7: content creation strategy is more in line with this overall

2621
02:16:14,600 --> 02:16:18,640
Speaker 7: strategy to inflate Kirk's political influence leading up to the

2622
02:16:18,680 --> 02:16:21,600
Speaker 7: election so that he can get more directly involved in

2623
02:16:21,640 --> 02:16:25,280
Speaker 7: the GOPS get out the vote campaign in key swing states.

2624
02:16:26,240 --> 02:16:28,280
Speaker 7: As a part of this strategy, Kirk has been on

2625
02:16:28,320 --> 02:16:29,960
Speaker 7: a bit of a media blitz the past few months

2626
02:16:29,960 --> 02:16:33,160
Speaker 7: to promote himself. Some listeners may have seen the viral

2627
02:16:33,240 --> 02:16:37,400
Speaker 7: video featuring Charlie Kirk debating twenty five quote unquote woke

2628
02:16:37,560 --> 02:16:42,160
Speaker 7: college students for over ninety minutes. This video, from the

2629
02:16:42,200 --> 02:16:46,920
Speaker 7: YouTube channel Jubilee, has over twenty million views, and like

2630
02:16:47,400 --> 02:16:51,800
Speaker 7: just as an aside, Jubilee is just so deeply evil.

2631
02:16:52,080 --> 02:16:55,879
Speaker 7: This company claims to advocate for like empathy and human

2632
02:16:55,920 --> 02:17:00,640
Speaker 7: connection while turning life and death political issues into fucking

2633
02:17:00,720 --> 02:17:05,160
Speaker 7: game show segments for YouTube ad revenue, often pitting media

2634
02:17:05,200 --> 02:17:10,240
Speaker 7: trained conservative activists against just random clueless liberals. I hate

2635
02:17:10,240 --> 02:17:15,720
Speaker 7: this company. They are so bad, but I digress now.

2636
02:17:16,000 --> 02:17:18,920
Speaker 7: I actually attended a Turning Point USA event on the

2637
02:17:18,959 --> 02:17:22,200
Speaker 7: GSU campus last year. It was a smaller event that

2638
02:17:22,280 --> 02:17:26,560
Speaker 7: was ostensibly about defending the Cop City training facility in Atlanta.

2639
02:17:27,320 --> 02:17:31,039
Speaker 7: Though halfway through the event it just stopped being about

2640
02:17:31,040 --> 02:17:33,560
Speaker 7: cop City and it just turned into an ad for

2641
02:17:33,640 --> 02:17:36,959
Speaker 7: Turning Point USA and this other political organization started by

2642
02:17:37,000 --> 02:17:41,800
Speaker 7: Candice Owens called BLEXIT, which stands for the quote Black

2643
02:17:41,959 --> 02:17:47,240
Speaker 7: Exit from the Victimhood mentality unquote. This was one of

2644
02:17:47,280 --> 02:17:51,160
Speaker 7: the most racist events I've ever been to. The main speaker,

2645
02:17:51,360 --> 02:17:56,040
Speaker 7: in his best metrosexual attire, blamed black people for creating

2646
02:17:56,040 --> 02:17:59,240
Speaker 7: situations that result in police murders, said that the real

2647
02:17:59,320 --> 02:18:03,000
Speaker 7: problem is that black kids are never taught accountability and

2648
02:18:03,120 --> 02:18:07,240
Speaker 7: that in the MLK days, people only ever advocated for

2649
02:18:07,360 --> 02:18:11,560
Speaker 7: more police training. He also claimed that rap music is

2650
02:18:11,640 --> 02:18:15,360
Speaker 7: causing a spike in violent crime and ranted against jay

2651
02:18:15,480 --> 02:18:18,840
Speaker 7: Z and Beyonce and closed by saying that we need

2652
02:18:18,879 --> 02:18:23,680
Speaker 7: to support more conservative rappers and singers. It was really bad,

2653
02:18:24,680 --> 02:18:28,080
Speaker 7: But on the plus side, I went undercover to this event,

2654
02:18:28,280 --> 02:18:31,720
Speaker 7: and when talking with the Turning Point USA officials, I

2655
02:18:31,840 --> 02:18:34,360
Speaker 7: convinced them that I was actually a student at a

2656
02:18:34,360 --> 02:18:38,600
Speaker 7: different nearby university and I reserve the right to start

2657
02:18:38,680 --> 02:18:43,560
Speaker 7: a fake TPUSA chapter in that school, so hopefully that

2658
02:18:43,600 --> 02:18:45,920
Speaker 7: will never happen. Since I'm the one who's supposed to

2659
02:18:45,959 --> 02:18:51,240
Speaker 7: be doing it. For the Brainwashed Tour event this past Monday,

2660
02:18:51,879 --> 02:18:56,039
Speaker 7: I dressed like an unfashionable campus conservative and donned my

2661
02:18:56,360 --> 02:18:59,840
Speaker 7: Reagan movie baseball cap acquired at the RNC welcome party,

2662
02:19:00,200 --> 02:19:03,320
Speaker 7: and arrived at campus an hour early to scope out

2663
02:19:03,360 --> 02:19:07,120
Speaker 7: the terrain. They didn't announce the exact location for the

2664
02:19:07,120 --> 02:19:09,760
Speaker 7: event ahead of time, so for about half an hour

2665
02:19:09,879 --> 02:19:12,880
Speaker 7: I just walked around to GSU with the fucking Ronald

2666
02:19:12,920 --> 02:19:17,279
Speaker 7: Reagan hat, looking for like a TPUSA booth. Now, luckily

2667
02:19:17,320 --> 02:19:20,120
Speaker 7: I spotted some people with red mega hats that I

2668
02:19:20,200 --> 02:19:24,359
Speaker 7: tailed to the nearby Hurt Park, where it was immediately

2669
02:19:24,360 --> 02:19:26,880
Speaker 7: evident that this would be a much bigger event than

2670
02:19:26,920 --> 02:19:30,480
Speaker 7: the Copcity one I attended a year prior. In the

2671
02:19:30,480 --> 02:19:33,200
Speaker 7: middle of the park was a big table with microphones

2672
02:19:33,240 --> 02:19:36,680
Speaker 7: set up for questions and debate, and on either side

2673
02:19:36,720 --> 02:19:41,000
Speaker 7: there were booths with turning point stickers, buttons, flyers, a

2674
02:19:41,080 --> 02:19:44,520
Speaker 7: pocket constitution, and sign up sheets to get involved in

2675
02:19:44,560 --> 02:19:48,600
Speaker 7: their political advocacy programs. I took home a big button

2676
02:19:48,680 --> 02:19:54,959
Speaker 7: that read Republicans are Hotter, and I got another what

2677
02:19:55,000 --> 02:19:58,760
Speaker 7: I would call a brat style button, but brown instead

2678
02:19:58,760 --> 02:20:03,600
Speaker 7: of green. That re D's high period, stop being a

2679
02:20:03,600 --> 02:20:12,320
Speaker 7: socialist period. Thanks period. Not good, not good. But I

2680
02:20:12,400 --> 02:20:15,480
Speaker 7: watched the crowd grow from like twenty people I would

2681
02:20:15,520 --> 02:20:19,800
Speaker 7: say around two hundred. You know, it got kind of fluid,

2682
02:20:19,840 --> 02:20:23,520
Speaker 7: but yeah, around two hundred to fifty. Maybe A small

2683
02:20:23,560 --> 02:20:27,039
Speaker 7: majority were students or at least young, and appeared to

2684
02:20:27,080 --> 02:20:31,480
Speaker 7: be equally made up of liberals and conservatives, with the

2685
02:20:31,520 --> 02:20:34,360
Speaker 7: rest of the crowd mostly made up of conservatives from

2686
02:20:34,440 --> 02:20:38,160
Speaker 7: all ages who came to campus just to see Charlie Kirk.

2687
02:20:39,000 --> 02:20:43,240
Speaker 7: As the event was about to begin, TPUSA staff moved

2688
02:20:43,400 --> 02:20:47,600
Speaker 7: all of the older quote unquote non college students out

2689
02:20:47,600 --> 02:20:50,920
Speaker 7: of frame of the cameras to make the video seem

2690
02:20:51,320 --> 02:20:56,120
Speaker 7: more focused on liberal college students, and after waiting in

2691
02:20:56,200 --> 02:21:00,880
Speaker 7: the surprisingly warm October sun for over an hour, Charles J.

2692
02:21:01,080 --> 02:21:05,080
Speaker 7: Kirk finally arrived thirty minutes late from the official start time,

2693
02:21:05,680 --> 02:21:09,480
Speaker 7: tossing free mega hats wildly into the crowd, one of

2694
02:21:09,520 --> 02:21:12,960
Speaker 7: which I am now in possession of. For this leg

2695
02:21:13,000 --> 02:21:15,680
Speaker 7: of the tour, Kirk has been accompanied by the twenty

2696
02:21:15,720 --> 02:21:19,600
Speaker 7: twenty four Republican presidential candidate with the tallest hair, the

2697
02:21:19,720 --> 02:21:23,440
Speaker 7: vek Ramaswami, who, by the way, has also won the

2698
02:21:23,560 --> 02:21:27,280
Speaker 7: Cool Zone Media Award for presidential candidate with the most

2699
02:21:27,440 --> 02:21:29,440
Speaker 7: Nick Fuentes groyper energy.

2700
02:21:30,680 --> 02:21:32,360
Speaker 4: So there you go.

2701
02:21:33,280 --> 02:21:36,680
Speaker 7: I can't believe I've seen the vek Ramaswami like four

2702
02:21:36,680 --> 02:21:40,920
Speaker 7: different times this year. That doesn't feel good. But do

2703
02:21:40,920 --> 02:21:44,240
Speaker 7: you know what does feel good? That's right, these products

2704
02:21:44,240 --> 02:21:58,000
Speaker 7: and services that support this podcast. Okay, we are back.

2705
02:21:58,040 --> 02:22:02,320
Speaker 7: It's time to finally talk about this fucking rally. So

2706
02:22:02,959 --> 02:22:05,560
Speaker 7: I'm not gonna go over like the whole event play

2707
02:22:05,600 --> 02:22:08,600
Speaker 7: by play, because there was over two hours of quote

2708
02:22:08,680 --> 02:22:11,760
Speaker 7: unquote debating that I have neither the time nor the

2709
02:22:11,840 --> 02:22:15,680
Speaker 7: desire to recap, but I will mention some of the

2710
02:22:15,920 --> 02:22:20,600
Speaker 7: overarching topics and common lines of questioning. Even as the

2711
02:22:20,680 --> 02:22:24,039
Speaker 7: first student took the mic, I knew that this was

2712
02:22:24,320 --> 02:22:27,280
Speaker 7: gonna be a rough day. The first person to quote

2713
02:22:27,360 --> 02:22:32,320
Speaker 7: unquote debate, Charlie and Vivek, stated that their quote primary

2714
02:22:32,320 --> 02:22:35,640
Speaker 7: opposition to Trump is that he's anti American and anti

2715
02:22:35,720 --> 02:22:41,879
Speaker 7: patriotic unquote. They said that they believed that Trump fundamentally

2716
02:22:42,040 --> 02:22:47,080
Speaker 7: undermines American values, and they specifically invoked Trump's rhetoric online

2717
02:22:47,080 --> 02:22:53,120
Speaker 7: about suspending the Constitution and the whole January sixth incident. Look,

2718
02:22:53,360 --> 02:22:55,720
Speaker 7: I don't think this is a very compelling line of attack,

2719
02:22:55,920 --> 02:22:58,879
Speaker 7: especially in a debate setting. And I just don't believe

2720
02:22:58,920 --> 02:23:02,280
Speaker 7: that patriotism is like an inherently good thing. And I

2721
02:23:02,280 --> 02:23:07,680
Speaker 7: think Grifters and Conman are pretty darn American. But Vivek

2722
02:23:07,879 --> 02:23:12,120
Speaker 7: and Kirk responded by talking about how social media censorship

2723
02:23:12,120 --> 02:23:16,400
Speaker 7: in twenty twenty was a much greater act of anti Americanism,

2724
02:23:16,879 --> 02:23:19,400
Speaker 7: although later on in the day they defended Elon Musk

2725
02:23:19,400 --> 02:23:21,800
Speaker 7: in his running of Twitter, since he's a private citizen

2726
02:23:21,840 --> 02:23:23,520
Speaker 7: and should be allowed to do whatever he wants with

2727
02:23:23,600 --> 02:23:27,760
Speaker 7: his own platform. This is, of course ironic amidst reporting

2728
02:23:27,760 --> 02:23:29,600
Speaker 7: from The New York Times that Musk and the Trump

2729
02:23:29,600 --> 02:23:33,480
Speaker 7: team colluded to suppress information damaging to Trump on the platform,

2730
02:23:33,720 --> 02:23:36,800
Speaker 7: basically exactly what the right was accusing the old Twitter

2731
02:23:36,959 --> 02:23:40,039
Speaker 7: doing the last election. But none of that really matters.

2732
02:23:40,360 --> 02:23:42,920
Speaker 7: There's no such thing as hypocrisy. You can never hold

2733
02:23:42,920 --> 02:23:45,520
Speaker 7: anyone account to this sort of thing on the right.

2734
02:23:46,200 --> 02:23:49,080
Speaker 7: Charlie Kirk then just went on to deny that Trump

2735
02:23:49,120 --> 02:23:52,680
Speaker 7: called to suspend the Constitution. Here's a clip he ever has.

2736
02:23:52,920 --> 02:23:55,240
Speaker 13: You're misquoting him. But let's just look at what he did,

2737
02:23:55,600 --> 02:23:56,400
Speaker 13: not just rhetoric.

2738
02:23:56,480 --> 02:23:59,920
Speaker 7: Nice little quick pivot there from Charles. But yes, technical

2739
02:24:00,440 --> 02:24:05,600
Speaker 7: Trump didn't say suspend. He actually said terminate, which is

2740
02:24:05,720 --> 02:24:06,440
Speaker 7: like worse.

2741
02:24:06,640 --> 02:24:07,200
Speaker 4: I don't know.

2742
02:24:08,720 --> 02:24:12,680
Speaker 7: In twenty twenty two, Trump posted on truth Social calling

2743
02:24:12,720 --> 02:24:17,199
Speaker 7: for the quote unquote termination of all rules, regulations, and articles,

2744
02:24:17,440 --> 02:24:21,960
Speaker 7: even those found in the Constitution unquote, in response to

2745
02:24:22,000 --> 02:24:25,120
Speaker 7: the twenty twenty election. I don't know how Kirk thinks

2746
02:24:25,160 --> 02:24:29,760
Speaker 7: that saying terminate is better than suspend. Of course he doesn't.

2747
02:24:30,200 --> 02:24:34,119
Speaker 7: He's just playing this game. It doesn't matter. Kirk went

2748
02:24:34,160 --> 02:24:36,640
Speaker 7: on to lie about the nature of January sixth and

2749
02:24:36,680 --> 02:24:41,199
Speaker 7: whether Trump literally personally committed the legal act of insurrection,

2750
02:24:41,879 --> 02:24:44,000
Speaker 7: eventually saying that even if Trump did, it would be

2751
02:24:44,080 --> 02:24:47,320
Speaker 7: thrown out under the new presidential immunity ruling by the

2752
02:24:47,320 --> 02:24:51,959
Speaker 7: Supreme Court, and stating that though Trump didn't actually do

2753
02:24:52,040 --> 02:24:56,120
Speaker 7: a coup, the Democrats did actually do a coup to

2754
02:24:56,160 --> 02:24:57,760
Speaker 7: get Kamala Harris on the ticket.

2755
02:24:58,360 --> 02:24:59,840
Speaker 4: Okay, sure, but.

2756
02:25:01,440 --> 02:25:06,720
Speaker 7: Now part of Kirk's just flagrant January sixth revisionist history

2757
02:25:07,640 --> 02:25:12,720
Speaker 7: was claiming that Ashley Babbitt was suddenly killed with no

2758
02:25:12,879 --> 02:25:17,640
Speaker 7: warning as she was retreating from the Capitol and just

2759
02:25:17,879 --> 02:25:18,960
Speaker 7: none of that is true.

2760
02:25:19,160 --> 02:25:20,959
Speaker 4: That just isn't what happened.

2761
02:25:21,240 --> 02:25:23,160
Speaker 13: The only person to die on January sixth is a

2762
02:25:23,160 --> 02:25:25,920
Speaker 13: Trump supporter killed by one of Nancy Pelosi's bodyguards.

2763
02:25:26,040 --> 02:25:30,359
Speaker 7: Okay, even that part isn't true. Two other Trump supporters

2764
02:25:30,400 --> 02:25:33,440
Speaker 7: died of heart attacks, and another died holding a Don't

2765
02:25:33,480 --> 02:25:37,720
Speaker 7: tread on Me flag after being trampled by fellow rioters.

2766
02:25:38,280 --> 02:25:42,040
Speaker 7: Now a student countered Kirk's claim of Babbitt's innocence by

2767
02:25:42,080 --> 02:25:45,440
Speaker 7: confirming that he believes in stands your ground laws that

2768
02:25:45,520 --> 02:25:49,080
Speaker 7: if you're breaking into property you can be shot hold on.

2769
02:25:49,200 --> 02:25:51,440
Speaker 13: But Ashley Babbitt was unarmed. Isn't the whole kind of

2770
02:25:51,440 --> 02:25:53,840
Speaker 13: stick of the American left, like, don't shoot unarmed people.

2771
02:25:53,920 --> 02:25:56,039
Speaker 13: If I break into your house, then I was unarmed,

2772
02:25:56,080 --> 02:25:56,800
Speaker 13: but I broken I was.

2773
02:25:56,760 --> 02:25:57,600
Speaker 8: Breaking into your house?

2774
02:25:57,680 --> 02:25:59,360
Speaker 13: Was George Floyd? Was that a rightful death?

2775
02:25:59,520 --> 02:26:04,120
Speaker 7: Okay, first of all, incredible deflection, but oh yes, as

2776
02:26:04,160 --> 02:26:08,280
Speaker 7: if these two situations are in any way comparable, a

2777
02:26:08,320 --> 02:26:10,520
Speaker 7: black man being pinned down and choked to death for

2778
02:26:10,600 --> 02:26:14,440
Speaker 7: over nine minutes and a woman leading a mob intent

2779
02:26:14,560 --> 02:26:17,680
Speaker 7: on killing US politicians right up to the last line

2780
02:26:17,680 --> 02:26:20,760
Speaker 7: of defense protecting set of politicians as they try to

2781
02:26:20,800 --> 02:26:25,120
Speaker 7: evacuate the capital. Kirk tried to make this same gross

2782
02:26:25,240 --> 02:26:29,000
Speaker 7: George Floyd comparison like an hour later, again to booze

2783
02:26:29,000 --> 02:26:33,240
Speaker 7: from the audience. Later in the day, a second student

2784
02:26:33,520 --> 02:26:37,240
Speaker 7: hit the Charlie Kirk debate chair debating on whether Trump

2785
02:26:37,320 --> 02:26:41,320
Speaker 7: is anti American, and mentioned Trump's recent comments talking about

2786
02:26:41,400 --> 02:26:46,119
Speaker 7: a quote unquote enemy within, some enemy inside the United

2787
02:26:46,160 --> 02:26:49,160
Speaker 7: States that poses a far bigger threat than foreign enemies.

2788
02:26:49,560 --> 02:26:52,240
Speaker 7: The Veck claimed that Trump was referring to people who

2789
02:26:52,360 --> 02:26:55,240
Speaker 7: shot at Trump, and Kirk claimed that it was a

2790
02:26:55,280 --> 02:26:56,760
Speaker 7: reference to drug cartels.

2791
02:26:57,040 --> 02:26:59,000
Speaker 13: So Donald Trump is talking with enemy, then he's talking

2792
02:26:59,000 --> 02:27:00,840
Speaker 13: about the cartels that are here that are poisoning our

2793
02:27:00,840 --> 02:27:03,440
Speaker 13: streets with drugs, that are bringing illegal guns into the country.

2794
02:27:03,560 --> 02:27:05,680
Speaker 13: That is the enemy within. Yet we say Russia is

2795
02:27:05,680 --> 02:27:08,320
Speaker 13: an enemy. Russia has never attacked the United States of America.

2796
02:27:08,520 --> 02:27:13,160
Speaker 7: Curious Russia comment there, certainly, But like for this enemy

2797
02:27:13,160 --> 02:27:16,800
Speaker 7: within thing, we know that's just not true. Trump has

2798
02:27:16,840 --> 02:27:20,920
Speaker 7: specifically named multiple Democrats as the enemy within. It's not

2799
02:27:20,959 --> 02:27:25,040
Speaker 7: about cartels, it's not about people shooting him. There's just

2800
02:27:25,200 --> 02:27:28,520
Speaker 7: non stop lying coming from Kirk and Vek and none

2801
02:27:28,560 --> 02:27:31,480
Speaker 7: of the students are like equipped or researched enough to

2802
02:27:31,560 --> 02:27:34,520
Speaker 7: call him out on it. Another common topic of debate

2803
02:27:34,680 --> 02:27:38,160
Speaker 7: was war and the insistence that Trump didn't start to

2804
02:27:38,200 --> 02:27:43,000
Speaker 7: any new wars, unlike Biden and Harris, who have personally

2805
02:27:43,120 --> 02:27:47,279
Speaker 7: started wars. I guess with Kirk crediting Biden for starting

2806
02:27:47,320 --> 02:27:51,640
Speaker 7: the Russia Ukraine War by financing the Ukrainian defensive, as

2807
02:27:51,640 --> 02:27:54,400
Speaker 7: well as roping in Harris by saying that she was

2808
02:27:54,480 --> 02:28:00,000
Speaker 7: quote in charge of the Russia Ukrainian War before it happened, unquote,

2809
02:28:00,720 --> 02:28:04,480
Speaker 7: which really doesn't make much sense as a sentence. The

2810
02:28:04,560 --> 02:28:08,080
Speaker 7: Veck later added that Kamala Harris was personally in charge

2811
02:28:08,080 --> 02:28:12,039
Speaker 7: of the withdrawal from Afghanistan, which again just isn't true.

2812
02:28:12,600 --> 02:28:16,200
Speaker 7: The Vek is parroting of failed attempt by Republican lawmakers

2813
02:28:16,200 --> 02:28:20,480
Speaker 7: from last September to invent some way to blame Harris

2814
02:28:20,480 --> 02:28:24,400
Speaker 7: for the Afghanistan withdrawal now that she is the presidential nominee.

2815
02:28:24,440 --> 02:28:27,840
Speaker 7: Harris is only mentioned three times in the three thousand,

2816
02:28:28,000 --> 02:28:32,120
Speaker 7: two hundred and eighty eight pages of interview transcripts from

2817
02:28:32,120 --> 02:28:36,240
Speaker 7: the Foreign Affairs Committee's investigation of the withdrawal, but by

2818
02:28:36,280 --> 02:28:39,200
Speaker 7: far Charlie and Vivek's main focus on the topic of

2819
02:28:39,280 --> 02:28:41,959
Speaker 7: war is just defending Russia.

2820
02:28:42,200 --> 02:28:43,960
Speaker 8: Donald Trump's going to negotiate an end of that war.

2821
02:28:44,000 --> 02:28:44,640
Speaker 8: That's reasonable.

2822
02:28:44,760 --> 02:28:47,280
Speaker 14: Kamala Harrison and Joe Biden have created that war and

2823
02:28:47,440 --> 02:28:49,080
Speaker 14: escalated that over the last three year.

2824
02:28:49,280 --> 02:28:53,400
Speaker 7: Trump did not really end any wars in his first term.

2825
02:28:53,760 --> 02:28:56,680
Speaker 7: In fact, he increased US troop levels in twenty seventeen

2826
02:28:57,000 --> 02:28:59,360
Speaker 7: and raised the number of civilian deaths in Afghanistan from

2827
02:28:59,400 --> 02:29:02,800
Speaker 7: drones strikes by three hundred and thirty percent according to

2828
02:29:02,840 --> 02:29:06,440
Speaker 7: Brown University. Still, the Veck tried to frame Trump as

2829
02:29:06,480 --> 02:29:10,320
Speaker 7: the much more principled anti war candidate, But which candadate?

2830
02:29:10,360 --> 02:29:11,840
Speaker 14: Was there a major war in the Middle East? Was

2831
02:29:11,879 --> 02:29:13,560
Speaker 14: there a major war in the Middle East or Donald Trump?

2832
02:29:13,720 --> 02:29:16,879
Speaker 7: There were multiple arms deal packages to Saudi Arabia for

2833
02:29:16,920 --> 02:29:20,039
Speaker 7: the war in Yemen, and the US increased its involvement

2834
02:29:20,080 --> 02:29:22,959
Speaker 7: in the series of a war under Trump. But to

2835
02:29:23,040 --> 02:29:26,600
Speaker 7: the Vek's earlier point, I really don't see a way

2836
02:29:26,840 --> 02:29:29,400
Speaker 7: Trump would end the war in Ukraine. That isn't just

2837
02:29:29,560 --> 02:29:33,240
Speaker 7: giving more territory over to Russia. But to Charlie Kirk

2838
02:29:33,680 --> 02:29:36,560
Speaker 7: that might not be such a bad thing, since he

2839
02:29:36,640 --> 02:29:38,520
Speaker 7: seems to be kind of fond of Russia.

2840
02:29:38,600 --> 02:29:40,600
Speaker 13: You know who is the enemy. China is the enemy.

2841
02:29:40,720 --> 02:29:41,439
Speaker 8: Russia.

2842
02:29:41,520 --> 02:29:43,960
Speaker 13: Well, Russia's not the enemy. Exactly how many of your

2843
02:29:44,000 --> 02:29:45,520
Speaker 13: friends have died because of Russians?

2844
02:29:45,720 --> 02:29:47,920
Speaker 4: Here's another SoundBite from the Veck.

2845
02:29:48,040 --> 02:29:50,360
Speaker 8: Joe Biden and Kyple Harris along with some Republican help.

2846
02:29:50,360 --> 02:29:52,959
Speaker 14: I'm gonna admit is sending more money to escalate that

2847
02:29:53,000 --> 02:29:55,200
Speaker 14: war that otherwise would have resolve itself if we had

2848
02:29:55,200 --> 02:29:57,600
Speaker 14: just negotiated peace back in twenty twenty two.

2849
02:29:57,800 --> 02:30:01,640
Speaker 7: Resolves itself. Sounds a lot like Vivek just means that

2850
02:30:01,760 --> 02:30:05,520
Speaker 7: Russia would have just seized territory, and like later on,

2851
02:30:06,000 --> 02:30:09,680
Speaker 7: Vavek argued that Ukraine just shouldn't be getting any native

2852
02:30:09,720 --> 02:30:10,760
Speaker 7: protection at all.

2853
02:30:11,120 --> 02:30:13,440
Speaker 14: So the US actually made a commitment back in nineteen

2854
02:30:13,560 --> 02:30:16,680
Speaker 14: ninety to say that NATO would expand not one inch

2855
02:30:16,800 --> 02:30:18,000
Speaker 14: past East Germany.

2856
02:30:18,240 --> 02:30:22,800
Speaker 7: Hmmm, I wonder what may have been different geopolitically in

2857
02:30:22,920 --> 02:30:27,880
Speaker 7: nineteen ninety in relation to Russia. Vivek, I wonder if

2858
02:30:28,000 --> 02:30:32,680
Speaker 7: anything has happened since nineteen ninety that might affect certain

2859
02:30:32,800 --> 02:30:38,280
Speaker 7: Slavic territories. Avek, I wonder, Oh my god. Now, the

2860
02:30:38,440 --> 02:30:42,760
Speaker 7: topic discussed probably the most during this event was immigration

2861
02:30:43,520 --> 02:30:47,320
Speaker 7: even the liberal college students seem to believe that an

2862
02:30:47,400 --> 02:30:51,680
Speaker 7: influx of immigration was the biggest problem currently facing the

2863
02:30:51,800 --> 02:30:56,560
Speaker 7: United States. Kirk claimed that Kamala Harris let ten million

2864
02:30:56,720 --> 02:31:01,160
Speaker 7: new quote unquote illegal immigrants into the cunt and like no,

2865
02:31:01,920 --> 02:31:04,920
Speaker 7: the total population of undocumented immigrants in this country has

2866
02:31:04,959 --> 02:31:08,920
Speaker 7: fluctuated between ten to twelve million over the course of

2867
02:31:08,959 --> 02:31:10,280
Speaker 7: the past twenty years.

2868
02:31:11,000 --> 02:31:11,800
Speaker 4: Though, like JD.

2869
02:31:11,920 --> 02:31:17,760
Speaker 7: Vance, Kirk considers most immigrants illegal regardless of their actual status.

2870
02:31:18,120 --> 02:31:21,720
Speaker 7: Kirk claimed that the quote unquote nine million immigrants seeking

2871
02:31:21,720 --> 02:31:24,640
Speaker 7: asylum that have come into this country under Biden are

2872
02:31:24,720 --> 02:31:30,359
Speaker 7: all illegal because they are quote cartel sponsored fraudulent asylum

2873
02:31:30,440 --> 02:31:34,680
Speaker 7: claims unquote. Kirk said that these false asylum seekers pay

2874
02:31:34,760 --> 02:31:38,039
Speaker 7: cartels ten thousand dollars to be smuggled into the United States.

2875
02:31:38,320 --> 02:31:40,720
Speaker 13: They're all illegal because they're we know it's actually, we

2876
02:31:40,720 --> 02:31:42,280
Speaker 13: know it to be true. It's not the question nine

2877
02:31:42,720 --> 02:31:46,080
Speaker 13: they're frauds. That they're defrauding the American immigration system is

2878
02:31:46,120 --> 02:31:46,600
Speaker 13: what they're doing.

2879
02:31:46,920 --> 02:31:51,040
Speaker 7: When pressed for proof on this, Kirk just stumbled, and

2880
02:31:51,200 --> 02:31:54,480
Speaker 7: Viveck took over and later just plugged his new movie

2881
02:31:54,560 --> 02:31:55,959
Speaker 7: about illegal immigration.

2882
02:31:56,160 --> 02:31:58,040
Speaker 13: Yes, I mean, so, for example, what is the asylum

2883
02:31:58,160 --> 02:32:02,520
Speaker 13: claim if you're coming from from George, Korea.

2884
02:32:02,800 --> 02:32:09,440
Speaker 7: Actually, wow, wow, very very convincing stuff happening. Viveck argued

2885
02:32:09,520 --> 02:32:13,040
Speaker 7: that most immigrants lie about seeking asylum in order to

2886
02:32:13,240 --> 02:32:16,760
Speaker 7: enter the country, and since that's illegal, that makes them

2887
02:32:17,040 --> 02:32:20,840
Speaker 7: more likely to commit other crimes once in the United States.

2888
02:32:21,080 --> 02:32:24,040
Speaker 15: So right now, our immigration system literally selects for the

2889
02:32:24,080 --> 02:32:26,560
Speaker 15: people who are most willing to lie to the US

2890
02:32:26,680 --> 02:32:29,440
Speaker 15: government to get in. And that's why it's no surprise

2891
02:32:29,520 --> 02:32:31,680
Speaker 15: that the people whose first act of entering the country

2892
02:32:31,760 --> 02:32:34,680
Speaker 15: breaks the law often continue to break the law while

2893
02:32:34,720 --> 02:32:35,560
Speaker 15: they're already here.

2894
02:32:35,959 --> 02:32:37,560
Speaker 13: I don't think that's racist or xenophobic.

2895
02:32:37,600 --> 02:32:39,360
Speaker 15: I think it's a fact based on who we're actually

2896
02:32:39,400 --> 02:32:42,199
Speaker 15: selecting to come into the country in actuality.

2897
02:32:42,320 --> 02:32:46,600
Speaker 7: Immigrants and especially undocumented or quote unquote illegal immigrants, are

2898
02:32:46,840 --> 02:32:50,480
Speaker 7: far less likely to commit crimes than US citizens. Most

2899
02:32:50,560 --> 02:32:53,560
Speaker 7: research puts it between forty to sixty percent less likely,

2900
02:32:53,920 --> 02:32:56,959
Speaker 7: at least according to Stanford, the Texas Department of Public Safety,

2901
02:32:57,320 --> 02:33:02,760
Speaker 7: and the Cato Institute, all famously liberal organizations. One thing

2902
02:33:02,920 --> 02:33:06,720
Speaker 7: that Kirk kept trying to do is pander his nationalism

2903
02:33:07,040 --> 02:33:10,240
Speaker 7: towards the racially diverse audience of Atlanta.

2904
02:33:10,360 --> 02:33:10,840
Speaker 4: Students.

2905
02:33:11,400 --> 02:33:14,200
Speaker 13: The people in this audience, which is a very diverse audience,

2906
02:33:14,520 --> 02:33:19,000
Speaker 13: specifically Black Americans, should be incensed that they're being replaced

2907
02:33:19,120 --> 02:33:23,360
Speaker 13: by foreigners. Black Americans are now being put aside so

2908
02:33:23,480 --> 02:33:26,280
Speaker 13: that a bunch of foreigners can come, undercut wages and

2909
02:33:26,440 --> 02:33:28,560
Speaker 13: fill your city. The black community, which you obviously both

2910
02:33:28,640 --> 02:33:32,480
Speaker 13: care a lot about, is actually not being prioritized. Instead,

2911
02:33:32,879 --> 02:33:34,920
Speaker 13: people from the Third World. They're coming in and Black

2912
02:33:34,959 --> 02:33:37,640
Speaker 13: America is getting put last, which seems to be a

2913
02:33:37,680 --> 02:33:40,280
Speaker 13: common theme over the last sixty years when Democrats are

2914
02:33:40,320 --> 02:33:45,240
Speaker 13: in control. Well, okay, we'll find that. Thank you guys,

2915
02:33:45,280 --> 02:33:47,560
Speaker 13: so much. Thank you, Thank you guys.

2916
02:33:47,959 --> 02:33:52,000
Speaker 7: The worst part is that this seems to work. The

2917
02:33:52,120 --> 02:33:57,120
Speaker 7: audience seems to resonate with this grossly fascistic framing, seemingly

2918
02:33:57,360 --> 02:34:00,480
Speaker 7: unable to recognize what Kirk was doing. And at this

2919
02:34:00,560 --> 02:34:04,320
Speaker 7: point I was just like fucking losing it. Vivek said

2920
02:34:04,360 --> 02:34:06,720
Speaker 7: that if you don't know English, you shouldn't be allowed

2921
02:34:06,720 --> 02:34:08,840
Speaker 7: in the United States, and like no one cared, no

2922
02:34:08,920 --> 02:34:12,119
Speaker 7: one pushed back on that. A pro Kamala person repeated

2923
02:34:12,360 --> 02:34:16,120
Speaker 7: false migrant crime wave rhetoric in her question about the

2924
02:34:16,240 --> 02:34:20,640
Speaker 7: Venezuelan refugee crisis. That student said that three hundred thousand

2925
02:34:20,720 --> 02:34:23,400
Speaker 7: Venezuelan refugees came to the United States in twenty twenty three,

2926
02:34:23,959 --> 02:34:28,200
Speaker 7: and Kirk then claimed that three million more would arrive

2927
02:34:28,360 --> 02:34:32,760
Speaker 7: if Kamala is elected, along with twenty million more immigrants.

2928
02:34:33,240 --> 02:34:38,200
Speaker 7: Kirk promised that if Trump's elected, any immigrant, whether legal, undocumented,

2929
02:34:38,480 --> 02:34:41,440
Speaker 7: or a refugee, just any immigrant who commits a crime

2930
02:34:41,560 --> 02:34:46,360
Speaker 7: like a dui will be immediately deported. And unfortunately, when

2931
02:34:46,520 --> 02:34:50,480
Speaker 7: pressed to defend or even just openly express their own

2932
02:34:50,680 --> 02:34:54,400
Speaker 7: personal views on whatever the topic of debate was, multiple

2933
02:34:54,440 --> 02:34:58,160
Speaker 7: students just like completely backed down, saying that they would

2934
02:34:58,240 --> 02:35:02,560
Speaker 7: rather quote unquote stay out of the political realm or

2935
02:35:02,680 --> 02:35:03,840
Speaker 7: in another instance.

2936
02:35:04,800 --> 02:35:07,000
Speaker 4: Politically charge you fair enough, what are you doing.

2937
02:35:07,600 --> 02:35:10,280
Speaker 7: You're trying to debate about access to abortion or if

2938
02:35:10,400 --> 02:35:12,960
Speaker 7: all immigrants should be rounded up and deported, but you

2939
02:35:13,000 --> 02:35:15,400
Speaker 7: don't want to get quote unquote too political.

2940
02:35:16,000 --> 02:35:17,520
Speaker 4: What are you talking about?

2941
02:35:17,920 --> 02:35:21,160
Speaker 7: I'm sorry you couldn't get a fast dunk on Charlie Kirk,

2942
02:35:21,440 --> 02:35:26,840
Speaker 7: but come on. But perhaps the most disheartening moment was

2943
02:35:26,879 --> 02:35:29,960
Speaker 7: when Charlie Kirk was challenged on his opposition to the

2944
02:35:30,120 --> 02:35:34,120
Speaker 7: Civil Rights Act. Someone asked why Charlie thinks that the

2945
02:35:34,160 --> 02:35:37,960
Speaker 7: Civil Rights Act was a mistake. Kirk started by saying

2946
02:35:38,000 --> 02:35:41,000
Speaker 7: that even if some of the original intent was good,

2947
02:35:41,720 --> 02:35:45,840
Speaker 7: it's now being used for bad things, like allowing men

2948
02:35:46,120 --> 02:35:49,920
Speaker 7: in women's locker rooms, to the complete shock of the questionnaire,

2949
02:35:50,840 --> 02:35:53,520
Speaker 7: Kirk and Viveki then went on to explain why we

2950
02:35:53,600 --> 02:35:55,640
Speaker 7: should repeal the Civil Rights Act.

2951
02:35:55,840 --> 02:35:59,040
Speaker 13: The fanfare that the Civil Rights Actor is met with.

2952
02:35:59,480 --> 02:36:02,320
Speaker 13: It's almost like the new Constitution. We talk about the

2953
02:36:02,360 --> 02:36:05,000
Speaker 13: Civil Rights Act more than the Constitution. Is it is

2954
02:36:05,160 --> 02:36:08,160
Speaker 13: cited more than the Constitution. We almost had a new

2955
02:36:08,280 --> 02:36:11,560
Speaker 13: American founding in the nineteen sixties with the Civil Rights Act.

2956
02:36:11,760 --> 02:36:14,480
Speaker 14: So let me share a couple of couple hard facts

2957
02:36:14,520 --> 02:36:17,720
Speaker 14: with you, which is that turns out that you're much

2958
02:36:17,760 --> 02:36:19,640
Speaker 14: more likely to end up in prison, you're much more

2959
02:36:19,760 --> 02:36:21,680
Speaker 14: likely to end up in poverty, you're much more likely

2960
02:36:21,800 --> 02:36:24,000
Speaker 14: not to graduate from high school if you grow up

2961
02:36:24,040 --> 02:36:26,400
Speaker 14: in a single parent household versus the dual parent household.

2962
02:36:27,320 --> 02:36:30,640
Speaker 14: Today you're talking about upwards of sixty percent of black

2963
02:36:30,720 --> 02:36:33,320
Speaker 14: kids born into single parent households rather than dual parent

2964
02:36:33,560 --> 02:36:35,840
Speaker 14: What number do you think that was in the nineteen fifties,

2965
02:36:35,920 --> 02:36:40,360
Speaker 14: before the Great Society, Probably it was even less twenty

2966
02:36:40,360 --> 02:36:43,720
Speaker 14: percent twenty percent back then. So then we look at

2967
02:36:43,760 --> 02:36:46,080
Speaker 14: what the results have been of this entire agenda. Put

2968
02:36:46,080 --> 02:36:49,760
Speaker 14: the Civil Rights Act, put the LBJ great society. Black

2969
02:36:49,800 --> 02:36:53,680
Speaker 14: Americans are worse off today even economically in terms of

2970
02:36:53,720 --> 02:36:56,400
Speaker 14: mobility than they were back then, in the name of

2971
02:36:56,520 --> 02:36:59,320
Speaker 14: laws that were passed to supposedly advance black interests.

2972
02:36:59,400 --> 02:37:01,960
Speaker 7: Oh god, do you know what that can actually be

2973
02:37:02,040 --> 02:37:06,040
Speaker 7: attributed to. It's the massive increase in policing and the

2974
02:37:06,160 --> 02:37:10,320
Speaker 7: carcinal justice system that was specifically intensified as a conservative

2975
02:37:10,360 --> 02:37:14,240
Speaker 7: reaction to black people gaining more civil rights in society.

2976
02:37:14,520 --> 02:37:16,840
Speaker 13: The Civil Rights Act has nine different titles in it,

2977
02:37:17,280 --> 02:37:20,720
Speaker 13: and you have this this leviathan that was created, and

2978
02:37:21,120 --> 02:37:23,960
Speaker 13: something that most Black Americans dunt support is men in

2979
02:37:24,040 --> 02:37:28,360
Speaker 13: female sports. Would you agree men playing in female sports?

2980
02:37:28,360 --> 02:37:31,160
Speaker 13: I have no, Yeah, I know, no, no for sure, right,

2981
02:37:31,440 --> 02:37:33,400
Speaker 13: but believe it or not, the Civil Rights Act is

2982
02:37:33,480 --> 02:37:36,560
Speaker 13: now being used to keep men playing in women's sports.

2983
02:37:37,400 --> 02:37:40,000
Speaker 13: So the Civil Rights Act was used to help Black

2984
02:37:40,080 --> 02:37:43,480
Speaker 13: America originally totally get that, but now the way it

2985
02:37:43,600 --> 02:37:47,640
Speaker 13: was written is that any claim of identification, so someone

2986
02:37:47,680 --> 02:37:50,120
Speaker 13: says I'm a woman, therefore I can compete in your

2987
02:37:50,200 --> 02:37:52,600
Speaker 13: volleyball team. They come in with a civil rights claim,

2988
02:37:53,080 --> 02:37:54,600
Speaker 13: and so what we're saying is no, no, no, it

2989
02:37:54,640 --> 02:37:58,920
Speaker 13: should be specified to racial, not gender all that other stuff.

2990
02:37:58,959 --> 02:38:00,480
Speaker 13: And there were all these other privilegis as well.

2991
02:38:01,200 --> 02:38:05,120
Speaker 7: How sad is it that this kid was convinced that

2992
02:38:05,280 --> 02:38:09,920
Speaker 7: the fucking Civil Rights Act is bad through transphobia. It's

2993
02:38:10,040 --> 02:38:13,240
Speaker 7: so fucking predatory what Kirk is doing here. This was

2994
02:38:13,280 --> 02:38:16,360
Speaker 7: so fucking gross to watch in person. As the day

2995
02:38:16,440 --> 02:38:19,279
Speaker 7: went on, things just started to get more and more kookie.

2996
02:38:19,800 --> 02:38:24,680
Speaker 7: A whole batch of like libertarian Austrian trained economists went

2997
02:38:24,840 --> 02:38:28,320
Speaker 7: back and forth with Charles and Viveka on tariffs, free markets,

2998
02:38:28,720 --> 02:38:32,440
Speaker 7: and the validity of the economic philosophy of Frederick Hayek.

2999
02:38:34,840 --> 02:38:37,680
Speaker 7: This fucking dude with a little mustache, who ostensibly got

3000
02:38:37,760 --> 02:38:41,040
Speaker 7: up to debate Kirk on abortion said that quote, I

3001
02:38:41,200 --> 02:38:45,720
Speaker 7: think my generation has started to abuse the option of abortion. Unquote,

3002
02:38:46,160 --> 02:38:48,080
Speaker 7: like why the fuck are you up there debating him?

3003
02:38:48,120 --> 02:38:52,959
Speaker 7: Then Jesus Christ and then what I would call generously

3004
02:38:53,680 --> 02:38:58,400
Speaker 7: a himbo in a white dude's for Harris shirt said

3005
02:38:58,440 --> 02:39:02,480
Speaker 7: that Kamala's greatest to pumplishment is being an idol. After

3006
02:39:02,720 --> 02:39:07,680
Speaker 7: debating Kirk about FEMA money being spent on illegal immigrants. Meanwhile,

3007
02:39:07,959 --> 02:39:12,520
Speaker 7: Kirk just continued to spew COVID nineteen conspiracy theories to

3008
02:39:12,879 --> 02:39:14,200
Speaker 7: very little pushback.

3009
02:39:14,360 --> 02:39:16,320
Speaker 13: They were wrong about everything. They were wrong about six

3010
02:39:16,360 --> 02:39:18,120
Speaker 13: feet to solder spread. They were wrong about the vaccine

3011
02:39:18,160 --> 02:39:18,879
Speaker 13: safe and effective.

3012
02:39:19,000 --> 02:39:20,520
Speaker 14: They were hey, they we were wrong about whether the

3013
02:39:20,640 --> 02:39:21,600
Speaker 14: Arthur revolves around the sun.

3014
02:39:21,920 --> 02:39:23,080
Speaker 4: What are you talking about?

3015
02:39:23,160 --> 02:39:23,800
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

3016
02:39:24,640 --> 02:39:27,760
Speaker 7: One student just got so fed up with Kirk's endless

3017
02:39:28,040 --> 02:39:31,560
Speaker 7: rambling about topics unrelated to their question and decided to

3018
02:39:31,680 --> 02:39:34,840
Speaker 7: walk away, which then, of course, Kirk claimed as a

3019
02:39:34,920 --> 02:39:36,000
Speaker 7: rhetorical victory.

3020
02:39:36,320 --> 02:39:39,760
Speaker 13: How to biden laptop misinformation? Where did the virus come from? Biolabs?

3021
02:39:40,800 --> 02:39:44,080
Speaker 13: It's exactly how fine? That's okay, go to your fics class.

3022
02:39:46,680 --> 02:39:50,560
Speaker 7: I was losing it and frankly just shocked at how

3023
02:39:50,720 --> 02:39:54,600
Speaker 7: little pushback Charles and Vivek were receiving for what I

3024
02:39:54,720 --> 02:39:59,320
Speaker 7: saw is very clear lies and manipulative debate tactics. The

3025
02:39:59,400 --> 02:40:02,360
Speaker 7: majority of some people clearly did not think too hard

3026
02:40:02,400 --> 02:40:04,640
Speaker 7: about the question they were going to ask, or let

3027
02:40:04,680 --> 02:40:09,200
Speaker 7: alone research the topic of debate beforehand. I saw people

3028
02:40:09,400 --> 02:40:14,000
Speaker 7: in line to ask a question using chat GPT to

3029
02:40:14,200 --> 02:40:17,840
Speaker 7: generate questions to ask using a prompt about how to

3030
02:40:18,080 --> 02:40:22,360
Speaker 7: debate Charlie Kirk at a Turning Point USA event, like

3031
02:40:22,600 --> 02:40:27,560
Speaker 7: what the fuck is going on now? I fundamentally refuse

3032
02:40:27,879 --> 02:40:31,520
Speaker 7: to participate in quote unquote debates like this for reasons

3033
02:40:31,560 --> 02:40:34,240
Speaker 7: that I will soon get into. So I just started

3034
02:40:34,400 --> 02:40:37,440
Speaker 7: taking notes of all the things Charlie was lying about,

3035
02:40:38,480 --> 02:40:40,880
Speaker 7: and I was right at the very front of the crowd.

3036
02:40:41,200 --> 02:40:45,760
Speaker 7: So whenever TPUSA publishes the video Charlie Kirk destroying silly

3037
02:40:45,840 --> 02:40:49,240
Speaker 7: liberal college students, you should be able to see me

3038
02:40:49,400 --> 02:40:53,000
Speaker 7: pretty clearly in the background in my fucking Ronald reag

3039
02:40:53,040 --> 02:40:57,120
Speaker 7: at a hat, just furiously scribbling down notes. Though I

3040
02:40:57,160 --> 02:40:59,720
Speaker 7: would recommend watching with an ad blocker not to give

3041
02:40:59,800 --> 02:41:03,880
Speaker 7: Kirk extra money. The whole event was a pretty pathetic affair.

3042
02:41:04,600 --> 02:41:08,640
Speaker 7: By my count, there were only eight liberal leaning challengers

3043
02:41:08,640 --> 02:41:14,720
Speaker 7: who questioned Kirk compared to thirteen conservative leaning questionnaires who

3044
02:41:14,920 --> 02:41:18,360
Speaker 7: entered a friendly discussion with Kirk. Out of all the

3045
02:41:18,480 --> 02:41:22,120
Speaker 7: liberal debaters, too backed down because they didn't want to

3046
02:41:22,160 --> 02:41:26,120
Speaker 7: get too political, and three others appeared to be at

3047
02:41:26,200 --> 02:41:31,040
Speaker 7: least somewhat swayed by Kirk and vivek now like I

3048
02:41:31,240 --> 02:41:35,360
Speaker 7: can't entirely blame these students right like, this setting is

3049
02:41:35,480 --> 02:41:38,560
Speaker 7: not a real debate. Kirk holds all of the power.

3050
02:41:38,680 --> 02:41:40,920
Speaker 7: He does this for a living, and he fucking brought

3051
02:41:41,000 --> 02:41:43,640
Speaker 7: a friend with him to help. It's two of them

3052
02:41:43,760 --> 02:41:46,800
Speaker 7: versus one. It's Kirk and Vivek. There's a reason he

3053
02:41:46,920 --> 02:41:51,960
Speaker 7: prefers debating college students rather than working professionals. Most students

3054
02:41:52,040 --> 02:41:55,720
Speaker 7: are not prepared to effectively counter Kirk's claims and don't

3055
02:41:55,760 --> 02:41:58,480
Speaker 7: have enough general knowledge on current events to call him

3056
02:41:58,520 --> 02:42:02,000
Speaker 7: out on every one of his many lies. And even

3057
02:42:02,040 --> 02:42:04,440
Speaker 7: if they do catch him on something, Kirk will try

3058
02:42:04,480 --> 02:42:08,360
Speaker 7: to project authority to sway the uneducated audience into believing

3059
02:42:08,400 --> 02:42:12,760
Speaker 7: that he is correct. Just because teens are chronically online

3060
02:42:13,240 --> 02:42:16,600
Speaker 7: doesn't mean that they have better media literacy, critical thinking,

3061
02:42:17,120 --> 02:42:20,840
Speaker 7: or know how to determine the validity of information. A

3062
02:42:20,920 --> 02:42:23,960
Speaker 7: twenty twenty four survey by News Literacy America found that

3063
02:42:24,080 --> 02:42:27,280
Speaker 7: only fifty percent of teens could identify that in article

3064
02:42:27,360 --> 02:42:30,680
Speaker 7: labeled as branded content on a news site was in

3065
02:42:30,840 --> 02:42:35,000
Speaker 7: fact an advertisement. Barely over half of teens could accurately

3066
02:42:35,080 --> 02:42:38,120
Speaker 7: identify an op ed with the word commentary in the

3067
02:42:38,200 --> 02:42:42,280
Speaker 7: headline as an opinion piece, forty four percent claimed that

3068
02:42:42,440 --> 02:42:45,720
Speaker 7: a company's own press release was more credible than an

3069
02:42:45,760 --> 02:42:49,320
Speaker 7: independent news report on the same subject, and thirty four

3070
02:42:49,360 --> 02:42:53,920
Speaker 7: percent of teens incorrectly labeled a random picture of damaged

3071
02:42:53,959 --> 02:42:58,360
Speaker 7: traffic lights as quote unquote strong evidence supporting a viral

3072
02:42:58,440 --> 02:43:02,800
Speaker 7: false claim that hot July temperatures had melted traffic lights.

3073
02:43:03,560 --> 02:43:07,360
Speaker 7: These teens surveyed said that local TV news and TikTok

3074
02:43:07,720 --> 02:43:11,600
Speaker 7: were the most trustworthy sources of information, and thirty five

3075
02:43:11,600 --> 02:43:15,440
Speaker 7: percent of teens said that professional journalists are more biased

3076
02:43:15,560 --> 02:43:19,760
Speaker 7: than social media content creators. Meanwhile, forty five percent said

3077
02:43:19,760 --> 02:43:23,920
Speaker 7: that journalists are just as biased as these TikTok influencers.

3078
02:43:25,000 --> 02:43:27,560
Speaker 7: Let's do a test right now, try to see if

3079
02:43:27,640 --> 02:43:43,360
Speaker 7: you can determine that these following clips are in fact advertisements. Okay,

3080
02:43:43,640 --> 02:43:47,720
Speaker 7: we are back now. This was technically my first time

3081
02:43:47,959 --> 02:43:52,760
Speaker 7: seeing this format of conservative YouTube debate in person. The

3082
02:43:52,879 --> 02:43:56,800
Speaker 7: videos that got published online later get heavily edited down,

3083
02:43:57,360 --> 02:43:59,680
Speaker 7: and while I was going at it in my notepad,

3084
02:44:00,120 --> 02:44:03,600
Speaker 7: I started to recognize the repeating patterns that Kirk and

3085
02:44:03,680 --> 02:44:08,600
Speaker 7: Vivek employed to gain dominance in almost every single debate matchup.

3086
02:44:09,440 --> 02:44:10,920
Speaker 7: So now I'm going to talk about some of these

3087
02:44:11,000 --> 02:44:15,800
Speaker 7: common tactics used by Kirk. When Kirk or Vivek wants

3088
02:44:15,879 --> 02:44:18,320
Speaker 7: to end a particular line of questioning or move on

3089
02:44:18,400 --> 02:44:21,960
Speaker 7: to the next person, they'll just restate their own opinions

3090
02:44:22,120 --> 02:44:26,240
Speaker 7: as fact and then end that debate, leaving the impression

3091
02:44:26,360 --> 02:44:30,080
Speaker 7: that they won. They can just stop whenever they feel

3092
02:44:30,120 --> 02:44:33,360
Speaker 7: like they have made the final point that gives them victory.

3093
02:44:34,080 --> 02:44:34,720
Speaker 4: Here's Vivek.

3094
02:44:34,920 --> 02:44:37,800
Speaker 14: The number one human attribute that our legal immigration system

3095
02:44:37,840 --> 02:44:40,480
Speaker 14: selects for isn't who's smart. Isn't who's going to work hard,

3096
02:44:40,760 --> 02:44:42,640
Speaker 14: isn't who loves the country. It's are you willing to

3097
02:44:42,720 --> 02:44:44,680
Speaker 14: lie to the US government or not. If you are,

3098
02:44:44,879 --> 02:44:45,200
Speaker 14: you get in.

3099
02:44:45,440 --> 02:44:46,800
Speaker 13: If not, you don't. That's the way it works.

3100
02:44:46,840 --> 02:44:47,440
Speaker 4: Thank you so much.

3101
02:44:47,600 --> 02:44:47,840
Speaker 3: Thank you.

3102
02:44:48,240 --> 02:44:50,080
Speaker 4: And here's another example from Kirk.

3103
02:44:50,400 --> 02:44:53,600
Speaker 13: Black Americans are treated far worse than illegals in this country,

3104
02:44:53,959 --> 02:44:57,160
Speaker 13: and we have violated our social contract to our own citizens.

3105
02:44:57,400 --> 02:44:58,959
Speaker 13: And I just want you to think about that, okay.

3106
02:44:59,120 --> 02:45:01,520
Speaker 13: Is that if you into America, you get a flight

3107
02:45:01,600 --> 02:45:03,520
Speaker 13: to the country the city of your choosing, You get

3108
02:45:03,600 --> 02:45:07,240
Speaker 13: taxpayer funded luxury hotels, you get a taxpayer funded phone,

3109
02:45:07,480 --> 02:45:11,280
Speaker 13: taxpayer funded food stamps, whereas many Americans are struggling to

3110
02:45:11,280 --> 02:45:13,320
Speaker 13: even make ends meet, So thank you so much for coming.

3111
02:45:13,400 --> 02:45:15,720
Speaker 7: Yeah, what a convenient way to say a bunch of

3112
02:45:15,760 --> 02:45:19,480
Speaker 7: bullshit without having to back any of it enough. Now,

3113
02:45:19,600 --> 02:45:22,800
Speaker 7: of of course, welfare programs like food stamps and even

3114
02:45:22,840 --> 02:45:25,920
Speaker 7: assistants to get access to smartphones, since they basically are

3115
02:45:25,959 --> 02:45:29,600
Speaker 7: now a requirement of everyday life, those programs do exist, right,

3116
02:45:29,760 --> 02:45:34,200
Speaker 7: Those are important programs. But those free flights to any city,

3117
02:45:34,959 --> 02:45:38,240
Speaker 7: that's actually a reference to New York City's reticketing program,

3118
02:45:38,320 --> 02:45:41,200
Speaker 7: which offers one way bus or plane tickets out of

3119
02:45:41,280 --> 02:45:44,880
Speaker 7: the city. This program was actually started because the governor

3120
02:45:44,920 --> 02:45:48,280
Speaker 7: of Texas sent forty thousand immigrants to New York against

3121
02:45:48,360 --> 02:45:52,840
Speaker 7: their will. And those quote unquote luxury hotels are actually

3122
02:45:52,959 --> 02:45:56,200
Speaker 7: a small part of an emergency housing program that utilizes

3123
02:45:56,480 --> 02:46:00,680
Speaker 7: some converted hotels as well as airport motels and even

3124
02:46:00,959 --> 02:46:05,520
Speaker 7: office buildings as temporary shelter for immigrants. But I'm sure

3125
02:46:05,720 --> 02:46:08,200
Speaker 7: Kirk would rather these people just be homeless living on

3126
02:46:08,320 --> 02:46:10,400
Speaker 7: the street. I'm sure he wouldn't find ways to complain

3127
02:46:10,440 --> 02:46:14,520
Speaker 7: about that too. A very common Kirk tactic to avoid

3128
02:46:14,600 --> 02:46:17,760
Speaker 7: answering a question is just to simply flip it around

3129
02:46:18,040 --> 02:46:22,000
Speaker 7: and ask the students a different question that might eventually

3130
02:46:22,240 --> 02:46:26,040
Speaker 7: be related to the student's original question, but not necessarily.

3131
02:46:26,400 --> 02:46:28,280
Speaker 13: Let me ask you just one more question. Can men

3132
02:46:28,320 --> 02:46:28,760
Speaker 13: give birth?

3133
02:46:29,400 --> 02:46:30,240
Speaker 8: Can men give birth?

3134
02:46:30,400 --> 02:46:30,640
Speaker 13: Yeah?

3135
02:46:31,480 --> 02:46:34,120
Speaker 8: If they're transgender? Q?

3136
02:46:34,440 --> 02:46:38,080
Speaker 7: The audience's shocked response. These people probably don't even know

3137
02:46:38,120 --> 02:46:40,800
Speaker 7: if this refers to a transgender woman or a transgender man.

3138
02:46:41,400 --> 02:46:41,720
Speaker 4: Whatever.

3139
02:46:42,400 --> 02:46:45,400
Speaker 7: For another example, here's how Levek responded to a question

3140
02:46:45,680 --> 02:46:47,320
Speaker 7: about voter fraud allegations.

3141
02:46:47,520 --> 02:46:49,480
Speaker 13: Do you think dal Trump committed a coup against the

3142
02:46:49,520 --> 02:46:50,080
Speaker 13: US government?

3143
02:46:50,240 --> 02:46:52,680
Speaker 7: This was part of Kirk's response to a question about

3144
02:46:52,840 --> 02:46:54,000
Speaker 7: US aid to Israel.

3145
02:46:54,200 --> 02:46:56,560
Speaker 13: What is your strong opinion about the civil war happening

3146
02:46:56,600 --> 02:46:57,959
Speaker 13: in the Central African Republic.

3147
02:46:58,120 --> 02:47:00,880
Speaker 7: For another example, a student asked Kirk what should be

3148
02:47:00,959 --> 02:47:04,880
Speaker 7: done about hate crimes against Venezuelan immigrants in cities like Chicago?

3149
02:47:05,120 --> 02:47:05,560
Speaker 13: Chicago?

3150
02:47:05,600 --> 02:47:06,360
Speaker 8: I think that we should do.

3151
02:47:07,080 --> 02:47:08,680
Speaker 13: I have a question, so what part of Chicago from?

3152
02:47:08,920 --> 02:47:13,160
Speaker 4: So these are all just classic red herricks. Here's another.

3153
02:47:13,560 --> 02:47:15,720
Speaker 13: Do you admit that the Hamas tried to commit genocide

3154
02:47:15,720 --> 02:47:16,400
Speaker 13: on October seven?

3155
02:47:16,720 --> 02:47:20,840
Speaker 7: Also simply not what a genocide is. Now, Sometimes students

3156
02:47:20,879 --> 02:47:24,000
Speaker 7: can catch what Kirk is doing with red herrings and deflections,

3157
02:47:24,560 --> 02:47:27,360
Speaker 7: but even when drilled down on the original line of questioning,

3158
02:47:27,720 --> 02:47:31,240
Speaker 7: Kirk will try hard to pivot away whenever the momentum

3159
02:47:31,480 --> 02:47:32,959
Speaker 7: is not going in his favor.

3160
02:47:33,160 --> 02:47:37,240
Speaker 13: You guys are super focused on technical things that we

3161
02:47:37,280 --> 02:47:39,160
Speaker 13: could talk about forever. Let me just ask a question.

3162
02:47:40,160 --> 02:47:43,200
Speaker 13: I asked you, what is Kamala Harris's greatest accomplishment? Can

3163
02:47:43,280 --> 02:47:44,440
Speaker 13: you tell me what that would be?

3164
02:47:44,800 --> 02:47:49,080
Speaker 7: Perhaps the most common tactic Charlie Kirk employes to maintain

3165
02:47:49,280 --> 02:47:53,640
Speaker 7: control over the interaction is instead of just stating his opinion,

3166
02:47:54,160 --> 02:47:57,080
Speaker 7: Kirk will throw a question back to his opponent with

3167
02:47:57,200 --> 02:48:00,160
Speaker 7: the intent of getting them to say something that's in

3168
02:48:00,280 --> 02:48:05,640
Speaker 7: support of Kirk's own argument. Alternatively, Kirk will ask a

3169
02:48:05,720 --> 02:48:10,359
Speaker 7: question that the student probably doesn't know, like some specific

3170
02:48:10,480 --> 02:48:14,040
Speaker 7: stat but something that Kirk already has a prepared answer for,

3171
02:48:14,640 --> 02:48:17,720
Speaker 7: so that he can throw off his opponent, make them

3172
02:48:17,879 --> 02:48:22,040
Speaker 7: question their own ability to debate, and make himself seem smarter.

3173
02:48:22,800 --> 02:48:24,240
Speaker 7: Here's a short compilation.

3174
02:48:24,640 --> 02:48:28,520
Speaker 13: If there was a policy that made markets more free

3175
02:48:28,879 --> 02:48:31,400
Speaker 13: but hurt your country, would you support it? Do you

3176
02:48:31,520 --> 02:48:34,760
Speaker 13: believe that FDR was right and partnering with Joseph Stalin

3177
02:48:34,840 --> 02:48:35,480
Speaker 13: to defeat Hitler?

3178
02:48:35,720 --> 02:48:35,879
Speaker 4: Yeah?

3179
02:48:35,920 --> 02:48:37,760
Speaker 13: So I guess two questions with tariff's how do you

3180
02:48:37,800 --> 02:48:40,120
Speaker 13: avoid a tariff's? Ask another moral question, then, is it

3181
02:48:40,160 --> 02:48:43,360
Speaker 13: ever okay to do something evil after an l under abortion?

3182
02:48:43,480 --> 02:48:45,680
Speaker 13: Do you carve out a new morality? Is there like

3183
02:48:45,760 --> 02:48:48,160
Speaker 13: a different kind of morality that we apply only to abortion?

3184
02:48:48,520 --> 02:48:49,920
Speaker 13: At what point does it get human rights?

3185
02:48:50,040 --> 02:48:51,000
Speaker 8: Let me ask you just a question.

3186
02:48:51,440 --> 02:48:54,440
Speaker 14: Do you know which nation is the biggest supplier of

3187
02:48:54,520 --> 02:48:55,720
Speaker 14: the US military today?

3188
02:48:55,760 --> 02:48:56,560
Speaker 8: You could probably guess it.

3189
02:48:56,680 --> 02:48:58,680
Speaker 13: Is your phone, paid for by US taxpayers. Let me

3190
02:48:58,720 --> 02:49:00,840
Speaker 13: ask you, did you have a big this summer in

3191
02:49:00,879 --> 02:49:03,440
Speaker 13: a luxury hotel paid for by taxpayers? Ten people are

3192
02:49:03,520 --> 02:49:06,240
Speaker 13: murdered in Chicago. Out of those ten, how many of

3193
02:49:06,280 --> 02:49:08,080
Speaker 13: those cases will be solved on average?

3194
02:49:08,080 --> 02:49:08,480
Speaker 2: Do you think?

3195
02:49:08,600 --> 02:49:11,920
Speaker 13: Okay? So you said wanted to suspend the Constitution? Did

3196
02:49:12,000 --> 02:49:13,360
Speaker 13: he do that when he was president?

3197
02:49:13,720 --> 02:49:17,160
Speaker 7: His argumentative style looks pretty goofy when it's all broken

3198
02:49:17,280 --> 02:49:20,720
Speaker 7: down into its respective parts. Now to circle back to

3199
02:49:20,800 --> 02:49:24,240
Speaker 7: my stance of just never engaging with these bad faith

3200
02:49:24,480 --> 02:49:28,680
Speaker 7: debate spectacles. Lastly, I'll show you what happens when you

3201
02:49:28,760 --> 02:49:33,040
Speaker 7: quote unquote do well against someone like Charlie Kirk. I

3202
02:49:33,120 --> 02:49:35,760
Speaker 7: think the only time Kirk was really thrown off was

3203
02:49:35,840 --> 02:49:38,560
Speaker 7: during one of the very last matchups, with a student

3204
02:49:38,720 --> 02:49:42,600
Speaker 7: asking about Kirk's support of military aid to Israel despite

3205
02:49:42,760 --> 02:49:45,480
Speaker 7: his alleged anti war stance and his call for the

3206
02:49:45,600 --> 02:49:49,040
Speaker 7: US to pause all foreign aid until the southern border

3207
02:49:49,200 --> 02:49:54,120
Speaker 7: is secured. Like usual, Kirk first tried to deflect by

3208
02:49:54,200 --> 02:49:57,440
Speaker 7: using red herrings and turn questions back on the student.

3209
02:49:57,800 --> 02:49:59,680
Speaker 13: Let me ask you this a first principal question. Do

3210
02:49:59,680 --> 02:50:01,800
Speaker 13: you think the Jewish people have a moral rights to

3211
02:50:01,800 --> 02:50:03,400
Speaker 13: their religions?

3212
02:50:03,440 --> 02:50:03,760
Speaker 10: Do not have?

3213
02:50:06,000 --> 02:50:09,880
Speaker 7: Kirk then failed to accuse the student of anti Semitism.

3214
02:50:10,560 --> 02:50:12,840
Speaker 7: Kirk then tried to trick the student into saying that

3215
02:50:12,959 --> 02:50:17,760
Speaker 7: Hamas is more morally good than Israel, But the student

3216
02:50:17,879 --> 02:50:20,240
Speaker 7: saw what Kirk was trying to do with his bizarre

3217
02:50:20,480 --> 02:50:21,480
Speaker 7: moralistic framing.

3218
02:50:21,840 --> 02:50:24,880
Speaker 13: Do you think that Israel as it's currently constituted is

3219
02:50:25,000 --> 02:50:26,800
Speaker 13: morally equivalent with Hamas?

3220
02:50:26,959 --> 02:50:31,600
Speaker 7: The student quite wisely did not answer Kirk's precariously worded

3221
02:50:31,680 --> 02:50:35,720
Speaker 7: yes or no question and instead reframed the question in

3222
02:50:35,840 --> 02:50:39,640
Speaker 7: their own words and only then stated their opinion that

3223
02:50:39,800 --> 02:50:44,760
Speaker 7: both Hamas and the IDs actions can be constituted as evil.

3224
02:50:45,560 --> 02:50:47,519
Speaker 4: Still, Kirk wouldn't relent.

3225
02:50:47,600 --> 02:50:49,960
Speaker 13: So which one is better? Which one is good is better.

3226
02:50:50,360 --> 02:50:54,440
Speaker 7: His nonsensical framing was once again rejected, but then Kirk

3227
02:50:54,520 --> 02:50:58,560
Speaker 7: accused the student of being propagandized and then asked if

3228
02:50:58,600 --> 02:51:02,039
Speaker 7: they had personally been to Israel to assess the situation.

3229
02:51:02,720 --> 02:51:04,440
Speaker 4: And this is when everything fell apart.

3230
02:51:05,040 --> 02:51:06,000
Speaker 13: Let me tell you this that you know that.

3231
02:51:06,000 --> 02:51:10,400
Speaker 16: There's Arab serving in the Kannesset, you know that, and

3232
02:51:10,400 --> 02:51:12,160
Speaker 16: there why you're a point of Jews saying I don't

3233
02:51:12,200 --> 02:51:14,279
Speaker 16: like Jews because Israel absolutely.

3234
02:51:14,160 --> 02:51:15,440
Speaker 13: Saying I'm just gonna I'm gonna go back to this

3235
02:51:15,480 --> 02:51:17,520
Speaker 13: because I think it's so interesting though, which is that

3236
02:51:17,640 --> 02:51:19,320
Speaker 13: I believe that the Jewish people do have a rights

3237
02:51:19,320 --> 02:51:20,199
Speaker 13: their ancestral body.

3238
02:51:20,440 --> 02:51:22,160
Speaker 16: Well, first of all, that you believe that they should

3239
02:51:22,160 --> 02:51:24,200
Speaker 16: be leveling buildings because that's their ancestral home.

3240
02:51:24,320 --> 02:51:26,400
Speaker 13: I'm not I'm not defending every decision they made, but

3241
02:51:26,520 --> 02:51:29,240
Speaker 13: that's exactly what they're doing. Interrupt every you're interrupting. I'm

3242
02:51:29,240 --> 02:51:31,039
Speaker 13: gonna ask for our next question because you're not arguing.

3243
02:51:31,040 --> 02:51:31,840
Speaker 4: The more questions.

3244
02:51:32,440 --> 02:51:35,000
Speaker 13: Not much to debate, because I believe that Israel should

3245
02:51:35,000 --> 02:51:36,920
Speaker 13: exist in its current form, you do not, thank you

3246
02:51:37,000 --> 02:51:44,200
Speaker 13: very much. Okay, last couple the moral confusion on the

3247
02:51:44,280 --> 02:51:46,440
Speaker 13: Israel topic. Is it's it's hard to clear up in

3248
02:51:46,480 --> 02:51:46,960
Speaker 13: a vendy like this.

3249
02:51:47,240 --> 02:51:51,320
Speaker 7: Again, like these aren't real debates. If the conversation goes

3250
02:51:51,520 --> 02:51:54,200
Speaker 7: any way other than how Kirk wants it to go,

3251
02:51:54,920 --> 02:51:58,000
Speaker 7: he has complete control of the environment and can move

3252
02:51:58,080 --> 02:52:02,520
Speaker 7: on to a more desirable apent because, like, beyond convincing

3253
02:52:02,640 --> 02:52:05,119
Speaker 7: any gullible people that might happen to be in the crowd,

3254
02:52:05,840 --> 02:52:08,680
Speaker 7: the real reason Kirk does events like this is to

3255
02:52:08,760 --> 02:52:09,520
Speaker 7: make content.

3256
02:52:10,240 --> 02:52:11,320
Speaker 4: It's YouTube debate.

3257
02:52:12,000 --> 02:52:15,720
Speaker 7: These debate videos rack up thousands and sometimes millions of

3258
02:52:15,800 --> 02:52:20,040
Speaker 7: views on YouTube and TikTok, and every single person that

3259
02:52:20,120 --> 02:52:24,000
Speaker 7: participates as if these are real debates is directly helping

3260
02:52:24,120 --> 02:52:28,840
Speaker 7: Charlie Kirk make money and grow his brand. This TPUSA

3261
02:52:29,160 --> 02:52:33,680
Speaker 7: Brainwash Tour will continue into November, and I'm sure Charlie

3262
02:52:33,720 --> 02:52:36,480
Speaker 7: Kirk will keep doing events like this in the years

3263
02:52:36,560 --> 02:52:41,080
Speaker 7: to come, regardless of who wins the election. So what's

3264
02:52:41,120 --> 02:52:45,040
Speaker 7: the options to counter something like this? I'm of three minds.

3265
02:52:45,840 --> 02:52:49,160
Speaker 7: My default response to stuff like this is usually just

3266
02:52:49,240 --> 02:52:52,840
Speaker 7: to ignore. Don't give these attention hounds what they're looking for,

3267
02:52:53,000 --> 02:52:56,039
Speaker 7: don't try to debate, don't try to own Charlie Kirk

3268
02:52:56,160 --> 02:53:00,480
Speaker 7: with facts and logic, there's no real benefit from engaging

3269
02:53:00,560 --> 02:53:04,560
Speaker 7: with him and his ilk on their own terms, but

3270
02:53:05,120 --> 02:53:08,240
Speaker 7: there will always be at least a few college students

3271
02:53:08,280 --> 02:53:10,480
Speaker 7: who think they can get one up on Charlie Kirk.

3272
02:53:11,200 --> 02:53:15,440
Speaker 7: So since these events are gonna continue to happen even

3273
02:53:15,480 --> 02:53:20,120
Speaker 7: if my friends and I withhold our participation, the second

3274
02:53:20,160 --> 02:53:24,120
Speaker 7: option is just to simply confuse. This is what I

3275
02:53:24,240 --> 02:53:29,080
Speaker 7: call the skibbity Biden strategy, one which I deployed against

3276
02:53:29,200 --> 02:53:32,240
Speaker 7: the my pillow guy Mike Lindell in front of the

3277
02:53:32,400 --> 02:53:34,760
Speaker 7: Israeli Consulate as he tried to suck up as much

3278
02:53:34,760 --> 02:53:36,959
Speaker 7: attention as possible during the DNC.

3279
02:53:37,600 --> 02:53:41,720
Speaker 4: They might come work. Skibbity Biden, skibbity Biden, give me

3280
02:53:41,800 --> 02:53:46,640
Speaker 4: buy one. This was probably my favorite moment of the DNC.

3281
02:53:47,560 --> 02:53:51,480
Speaker 7: This strategy of complete confusion doesn't just deny the subject

3282
02:53:51,560 --> 02:53:53,960
Speaker 7: what they want. If you're the my pillow guy attention

3283
02:53:54,080 --> 02:53:56,840
Speaker 7: from reporters or, in the case of Charlie Kirk, an

3284
02:53:57,000 --> 02:54:00,280
Speaker 7: unfair debate against a non media trained college friend Shuman,

3285
02:54:00,959 --> 02:54:04,920
Speaker 7: but the skibbity Biden strategy also eats up their time,

3286
02:54:05,520 --> 02:54:08,560
Speaker 7: prohibiting others from being able to engage on the terms

3287
02:54:08,600 --> 02:54:12,880
Speaker 7: decided upon by Turning Point USA, the more time you

3288
02:54:13,160 --> 02:54:18,720
Speaker 7: spend spewing your near unintelligible gibberish about how Warhammer connects

3289
02:54:18,760 --> 02:54:22,320
Speaker 7: to US foreign policy or explaining your made up conspiracy

3290
02:54:22,360 --> 02:54:25,760
Speaker 7: theory about how the Hawktua girl is a CIA asset.

3291
02:54:26,600 --> 02:54:29,640
Speaker 7: All of that is less time for some nineteen year

3292
02:54:29,640 --> 02:54:33,280
Speaker 7: olds to challenge Kirk on his abortion views, and a

3293
02:54:33,400 --> 02:54:36,640
Speaker 7: knowing Charlie Kirk is just a fun bonus, now that

3294
02:54:36,720 --> 02:54:39,560
Speaker 7: I think about it, this is essentially the patent Oswalt

3295
02:54:39,640 --> 02:54:44,720
Speaker 7: filibuster tactic. Now, obviously Kirk has control of the mic

3296
02:54:44,760 --> 02:54:47,480
Speaker 7: and probably won't let you ramble on about gibberish for

3297
02:54:47,680 --> 02:54:52,360
Speaker 7: too long, So this strategy becomes more successful if you

3298
02:54:52,400 --> 02:54:54,720
Speaker 7: can get a whole team lined up in front of

3299
02:54:54,720 --> 02:54:59,920
Speaker 7: the microphone. Now, finally, the last option is disruption through force,

3300
02:55:00,480 --> 02:55:03,200
Speaker 7: preferably in a way that limits the possibility of creating

3301
02:55:03,600 --> 02:55:07,039
Speaker 7: an on camera spectacle that can be utilized by TPUSA.

3302
02:55:08,320 --> 02:55:11,600
Speaker 7: This has typically not been a common tactic used to

3303
02:55:11,720 --> 02:55:15,680
Speaker 7: counter Turning Point events on campus, but it may be

3304
02:55:15,840 --> 02:55:20,960
Speaker 7: time to reconsider. Forceful disruptions were often utilized when figures

3305
02:55:21,000 --> 02:55:25,200
Speaker 7: like Milo Uanapolis toured college campuses back in twenty sixteen

3306
02:55:25,240 --> 02:55:29,120
Speaker 7: to twenty eighteen, and more recently against campus events featuring

3307
02:55:29,200 --> 02:55:34,119
Speaker 7: Daily Wire employees like Michael Knowles and Matt Walsh. Historically,

3308
02:55:34,280 --> 02:55:37,240
Speaker 7: this strategy has not been applied to Charlie Kirk, as

3309
02:55:37,280 --> 02:55:40,120
Speaker 7: he's been viewed as less radical than some of these

3310
02:55:40,200 --> 02:55:44,039
Speaker 7: other figures. But I just don't think that's true anymore.

3311
02:55:44,520 --> 02:55:49,439
Speaker 7: Kirk is spreading and normalizing hardcore as xenophobic and nationalist

3312
02:55:49,480 --> 02:55:54,160
Speaker 7: rhetoric across college campuses with little to no resistance, not

3313
02:55:54,320 --> 02:55:57,680
Speaker 7: to mention his complete embrace of conspiracy theories and use

3314
02:55:57,760 --> 02:56:02,400
Speaker 7: of transphobia to undermine civil rights. There's many ways to

3315
02:56:02,440 --> 02:56:07,240
Speaker 7: disrupt events like this through forceful means, sound disruption, visual disruption,

3316
02:56:07,720 --> 02:56:11,480
Speaker 7: physical disruption, planning an alternate event to take place at

3317
02:56:11,520 --> 02:56:15,440
Speaker 7: the same time, and place big banners with Charles's tiny

3318
02:56:15,520 --> 02:56:20,640
Speaker 7: face carefully placed in view of the debate cameras. Creative

3319
02:56:20,720 --> 02:56:25,520
Speaker 7: opportunities abound, but it requires people to be actively monitoring

3320
02:56:25,720 --> 02:56:29,920
Speaker 7: when and where these events take place and actually plan

3321
02:56:30,040 --> 02:56:33,480
Speaker 7: a counterdemo ahead of time, and that just doesn't seem

3322
02:56:33,520 --> 02:56:37,600
Speaker 7: to be happening at the moment. And so I thought

3323
02:56:37,760 --> 02:56:40,720
Speaker 7: going to this event would help reboot my brain cheer

3324
02:56:40,800 --> 02:56:45,400
Speaker 7: myself up and amuse me with Charlie's childish display of

3325
02:56:45,560 --> 02:56:50,080
Speaker 7: debate kid politics. But it just left me more sad

3326
02:56:50,680 --> 02:56:56,240
Speaker 7: watching hapless kids fall prey to Kirk's transparent scheme, just

3327
02:56:56,360 --> 02:56:58,800
Speaker 7: feeling like I had no way to stop the train wreck.

3328
02:56:59,560 --> 02:57:01,880
Speaker 7: But it doesn't have to be this way. With a

3329
02:57:01,959 --> 02:57:05,400
Speaker 7: few friends and a little preparation, there is an alternative

3330
02:57:05,680 --> 02:57:11,279
Speaker 7: and hey, it could happen here. Well that's my recap

3331
02:57:11,400 --> 02:57:15,680
Speaker 7: on this fucking Charlie Kirk rally. Oh and heads up,

3332
02:57:16,120 --> 02:57:19,080
Speaker 7: next week, there's gonna be no Spooky Week episodes for

3333
02:57:19,280 --> 02:57:22,959
Speaker 7: the first time in four years. Sorry, the world has

3334
02:57:23,080 --> 02:57:27,160
Speaker 7: just gotten too spooky this year. Between the election and

3335
02:57:28,000 --> 02:57:32,720
Speaker 7: hurricanes and the genocide and Gaza and everything else happening,

3336
02:57:33,040 --> 02:57:35,520
Speaker 7: the world's just too spooky. I'm really just not feeling

3337
02:57:35,840 --> 02:57:40,000
Speaker 7: Halloween pilled as I usually am. Hopefully things will get

3338
02:57:40,080 --> 02:57:44,080
Speaker 7: better soon. But in lieu of Spooky Week, we actually

3339
02:57:44,120 --> 02:57:47,039
Speaker 7: have a special series from James on the Darien Gap,

3340
02:57:47,400 --> 02:57:49,440
Speaker 7: so you have that to look forward to next week.

3341
02:57:50,040 --> 02:57:52,199
Speaker 7: Goodbye everyone, see you on the other side.

3342
02:57:54,840 --> 02:57:57,960
Speaker 2: Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week

3343
02:57:58,080 --> 02:57:59,920
Speaker 2: from now until the heat Death of the Universe.

3344
02:58:00,480 --> 02:58:02,959
Speaker 4: It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

3345
02:58:03,160 --> 02:58:06,200
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

3346
02:58:06,280 --> 02:58:09,840
Speaker 1: coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

3347
02:58:09,959 --> 02:58:13,480
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

3348
02:58:13,560 --> 02:58:15,840
Speaker 1: now find sources for it could Happen Here listed directly

3349
02:58:15,920 --> 02:58:17,040
Speaker 1: in episode descriptions.

3350
02:58:17,400 --> 02:58:18,160
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening.