WEBVTT - Reframing Conversations About Education 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:14.480 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wik f Daily with 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:18.439 me your girl, Danielle Moody recording from the Home Bunker, Folks. 0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:21.439 Today I get into a conversation with our friend or 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:26.840 in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, about how we reframe 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:34.280 the conversations around education being fundamental to our democracy. It 0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:38.760 has always been clear since the battle for integration in 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:47.400 our schools that schools are where Republicans point their weapons. 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:52.080 Why because the more that people know, the more robust 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:56.160 education that people have, the less ability they have to 0:00:56.240 --> 0:01:00.240 be controlled, the more questions that they ask. So if 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:04.720 you go to war on critical thought, if you ban books, 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:10.520 if you ban thinking, if you narrow curriculum to implement 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:15.160 your lies, you further the cause for white supremacy. When 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:18.960 you have generation after generation of students believing that slavery 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:22.920 was a good thing, that the owning of people, the raping, 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:26.199 the beating, the brutalization, the ripping of babies and breaking 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:30.240 apart of families, the lynchings, the torture, the domestic terrorism. 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:35.240 When you start to look for the bright side and 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:38.480 all of those things and say, wow, you know, maybe 0:01:38.520 --> 0:01:41.240 they were enslaved and shackled and beaten and weren't fed, 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:45.479 and you know, tortured for four hundred, five hundred years. 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:49.680 But at least they became a woodworker, least they learned 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:52.760 how to be a blacksmith. When the truth of the 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:56.840 matter is those very people were stolen from their countries, 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:01.720 from their communities with them skills that they came here with. 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:09.040 Those white slaveholders didn't teach them a fucking thing except 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:15.560 how depraved parts of humanity could actually be. So Jonathan 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:20.560 and I in today's conversation talk about the fact that 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:24.800 Democrats are late to the party with regard to education, 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:30.320 public education being on the front lines of the battle 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:34.720 to save our democracy, because if we are not fighting 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:44.839 for robust, genuine, fact based education, then our society has 0:02:44.960 --> 0:02:49.120 no chance for survival because what we are creating then 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:57.200 is generation of generation of mindless which it workers, which 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:00.520 is sad because guess what, we ain't got no whichet's 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:06.440 to work in this country because we've outsourced factories. So 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:09.000 you tell me the jobs that people are going to 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:12.440 get that allow them to be globally competitive and also, 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:16.960 I don't know, competitive against artificial intelligence, which in the 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:19.360 next five to ten years is going to replace a 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:24.840 lot of fucking jobs. We are creating our own destruction. 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:31.600 And if we don't fight for education, if we don't 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:34.680 fight for books, if we just look at this as 0:03:34.720 --> 0:03:38.440 siloed issues of oh well, they're talking about black people 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:42.360 today and Jewish people tomorrow and trans people the next day, 0:03:42.640 --> 0:03:45.320 if we just take it piece by piece instead of 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:50.200 fighting for the whole, which is the right to think. 0:03:51.240 --> 0:04:00.520 That's what we're fighting for. It is absolutely crazy that 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:04.720 we are watching day by day, decision by decision, policy 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:11.400 pass by policy, measured pass that are denying people free thought, 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:18.160 bodily autonomy. Folks, we got to wake the fuck up, 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:21.279 and we got to wake up everybody around us. And 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:23.120 I keep saying it does not matter if you have 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:28.479 kids in the school system, because having an educated workforce 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:35.039 matters to all of us. So I am encouraging people 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:38.400 to find out about your school board elections, find out 0:04:38.400 --> 0:04:42.120 what the fuck is happening in your school speak out, donate, 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:48.320 run for office. We have got to mobilize because right 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:55.400 now they are winning. Coming up next, my conversation with 0:04:55.440 --> 0:05:01.560 our friend Jonathan Metzel. Folks, you know that whenever we 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:04.280 have the opportunity each week to sit down with our 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:08.200 in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzil. I am always thrilled 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:11.640 and the conversation is always stirring, and this week I'm 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:16.480 sure will be no different. Jonathan. 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:22.800 We are living in such a crazy time. I have 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:28.840 no better way to disclose that. But you know, I 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:31.320 find that every time we sit down, you will larnt 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:33.800 me to something that I'm like, no way, that couldn't 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:37.600 possibly be like a thing, and You're just like, no, no, 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:41.880 it truly is happening. So, folks, what we know is 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:45.720 that over the last couple of weeks or last, yeah, 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:49.560 the last couple of weeks, the state of Florida has 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:55.880 once again outdone itself with their pure, unadulterated fuckery to 0:05:56.040 --> 0:06:02.760 erase black people, black culture, to marginalized the trans community, 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:07.880 which is already marginalized, and to criminalize women and everyone 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:10.359 essentially that is not white, that is not cis, that 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:16.520 is not hetero or male. And they really, I mean 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:24.560 just took great lengths to redesign the education curriculum that 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:27.280 would have young people in the State of Florida to 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:32.680 learn and believe that slavery was somehow beneficial to black people, 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:36.520 which is It's what I did in a video the 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:39.800 other day, Jonathan, which was stating that it is not 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:46.400 enough to oppress, right, they actually want you to be 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:50.120 grateful for the oppression, Like that's the place that we're in, 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:54.039 which is to say, oh, well, slavery wasn't necessary evil, 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:56.240 and you should be grateful for the fact that you 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:59.920 learn skills, because how they see black people were as 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:04.559 empty minded animals that they brought here, domesticated and gave 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:08.400 all of these skills to left to their own devices. Right, 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:11.760 who would have known what would have happened to, you know, 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:18.240 enslaved Africans. That's the mentality of white supremacist slaveholders and 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:22.440 their ancestors aka the Desantises, the Abbots, the Trumps, and 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:26.400 the Republican Party of the world. Now, please tell the 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:30.920 people how far this ideology is now going. And what 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:34.040 was just stated on Fox. 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:39.520 Well, the logic, I think you're exactly right is it's 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:43.120 kind of a three step process, right, That is that 0:07:43.280 --> 0:07:45.880 because people don't just fall out of bed in the 0:07:45.920 --> 0:07:49.760 morning saying I'm ready to oppress people like you have 0:07:49.800 --> 0:07:51.760 to kind of lead them up to it by this 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:54.480 kind of logical scaffolding, which is what we're seeing. And 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:57.360 so the first part that I think is really important 0:07:58.080 --> 0:08:02.080 is you're not the oppressor or the aggressor. You're the victim, right, 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:04.120 And we're seeing that happen a lot. There was a 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:07.679 poll that came out, I think last week that showed 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:12.280 that over sixty percent of white Americans think that anti 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:16.360 white racism is the most parnicious form of racism in 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:21.240 this country. So increasingly white Americans are saying, it's not 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:25.679 anti black racism that is the problem, it's actually we're 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:28.720 the victims of racism, like kind of turning the turning 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:30.920 the tide. So number one is that there's this logical 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:35.360 twist in which people become the victims. And what does 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:40.760 that do, right, It get off get you don't have 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:42.960 to see your own complicity. It's not like, oh, I'm 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:46.040 part of a system that's oppressing other people. In fact, 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:48.160 I'm the victim of this system. I don't have to 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:51.760 see my own participation. So that's part number one. And 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:54.719 then part number two is I'm going to find some 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:58.160 strong man or strong person who protects me because I'm 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:00.320 the victim of all this kind of stuff, which is 0:09:00.360 --> 0:09:03.120 we're seeing with the rise of Trump and DeSantis and 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:06.000 this logic of not like, let's make the country better 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:10.480 for everybody. And then the third is historical revision that 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:16.080 fill in the blank, historical atrocity wasn't so bad. Why 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:19.320 should we be hung up on studying black history. Slavery 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:22.160 wasn't so bad. In fact, slaves learned marketable skills that 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:25.880 they later losed in the job market. Now, of course, 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:29.640 it's never the people who themselves, their families, their groups 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:34.920 were the victims of that. It's more like people who 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:37.440 are on the outside trying to justify. It's more often 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:40.640 people who were in the aggressor group who were saying, oh, 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:43.640 the system wasn't so bad. We help people, and we 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:45.240 have much more to say. I hope we talk about 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:48.280 it today about where that logic comes from about slavery 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:52.400 wasn't so bad. But once that gets to be your logic, 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:56.040 it gets to ridiculous endpoints, like what happened a couple 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:59.040 of days ago on Fox News where a Jewish Fox 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:02.480 News host was talking to another Fox News host and 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:06.000 the Fox News host said, I'm Jewish, Are you going 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:10.360 to tell me that the Holocaust wasn't so bad? And 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:14.880 the Fox News people all said, yeah, there were marketable 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:18.720 skills that Jews who survived the Holocaust got and people 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:22.160 who survived the Holocaust, and they were citing Victor Frankel, 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:25.880 whose brothers, parents, and pregnant wife were all murdered in 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:30.199 concentration camps as saying because Victor Frankel survived the Holocaust, 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:32.400 so in a way, what they're doing is just using 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:36.280 this and the Holocaust thing for me was like, man, 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:38.160 it's just like mad lips, Like you can just fill 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:40.440 in the historical atrocity and then say it wasn't so 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:42.000 bad for that kind of thing. But it's gotten to 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:45.959 the point where, yes, the Holocaust taught Jews marketable skills 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:48.160 that they could later use in the job market. That's 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:51.240 a logic that is actually being said on the biggest 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:53.080 news channel in the United States. 0:10:56.200 --> 0:11:04.480 I am just like outdone. Do you know what I'm saying? 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:10.800 Like I get to a point I find where this 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:14.160 is an even revisionist I don't even know what you 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:23.720 would call this, Jonathan, like one the like the system 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:31.880 of slavery was the biggest crime against humanity in the world, right, 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:38.520 Like you're talking about millions of people being raped and 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:46.800 tortured and brutalized and terrorized and literally treated as animals, 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:49.640 going so far as to go through the court system 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:55.359 to deny people their humanity for hundreds and hundreds of years. 0:11:56.400 --> 0:12:00.680 The vileness of slavery that we are still feeling the 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:04.160 effects of and will until the end of days in 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:07.320 this country and around the world. It is what anti 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:12.520 blackness is perpetuated off of. It is what policies are 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:19.280 created around, right, And so to have this Florida Board 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:24.679 of Education decide that this is how they're going to 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:28.880 teach slavery goes to show you the lengths that white 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:32.960 supremacy has to go to in order to survive, the 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:37.720 lengths of lies and the depths of deceit, in order 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:43.640 to continue to indoctrinate generation after generation to believe that 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:47.520 black people deserve the treatment that they've received because all 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:51.760 white people are benevolent, right, and that without the institution 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:55.800 of slavery, that black people would have never been able 0:12:55.880 --> 0:13:01.679 to thrive and survive in society. Again, and perpetuating lies 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:06.080 and stereotypes about the humanity of black people, denying the 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:11.040 depravity of white domestic terrorism, which is what founded this country. 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:15.920 To then go to the other length to begin to 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:25.520 erase the responsibility of people's roles in the Holocaust, including 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:30.440 the United States that allowed and waited for millions of 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:35.360 Jewish people to die before you actually to be murdered, 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:40.040 before you engaged in war. I just I don't know. 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:44.000 I mean, you talk to these people. I don't know 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:46.560 how you talk to these people. 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:47.280 I don't know. 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:53.120 I don't know what where the bridge is anymore, Jonathan, Like, 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:55.160 I just think that it's burned to the ground. You 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:59.480 tell me, because I don't see how you move forward. 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:03.960 If we don't have a foundation one of shared values 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:07.840 and laws and like what we consider to be evil 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:11.240 and wrong, Like, if we don't have a shared morality, 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:16.920 then I don't know how society functions. 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:21.160 I want to give like an answer to that, which 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:23.080 is like, oh, yeah, here's how you turn it around. 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:27.160 I do think that education is at the core of 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:29.760 a lot of this, honestly. I mean it's not lost 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:33.160 on anybody. I think that this it's not even just 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:36.800 revisionist history, it's wrong history, right, Like what they said 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:39.880 on Fox News, for example, was that Jews survived concentration 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:44.400 camps by being the word they use was useful, and 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:47.320 so you would have to like know nothing about the 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:50.920 Holocaust to know to not know that the Jews who 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:54.800 survived the Holocaust, it was just totally capricious, like there 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:59.680 was no everybody died basically, but the ways that they 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:02.800 made deals with people is like if you help push 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:06.200 your aunt into the gas chamber, you you'll survive another 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:08.520 week or something like that. Like what useful meant was 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:12.200 serving the needs of the murderers, right, And so in 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:15.000 a way, it's it's it's it's ignorant, but it's also 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:20.120 a really dangerous lie. And so part of the story 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:24.120 is that this is playing out in the context of 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:27.320 all of these attacks on education for being too woke 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:30.080 and redoing the standards and stuff like that they're trying 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:32.520 to kind of and so I think we need a 0:15:32.560 --> 0:15:36.520 massive mobilization and defense of education. I think education is 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:40.560 the terrain that this is obviously being fought on. And 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:43.920 we were late to the game. Right a year ago 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:46.520 we talked about it on this show. Right wingers were 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:50.000 mobilizing at school boards and saying let's ban books and 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:55.680 stuff like that, and we were horrified. But every time 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:59.960 there were five hundred parents saying we want these books banned, 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:03.000 there should have been five thousand people showing up at 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:06.400 the school board saying we're not going to stand for that, 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:09.000 or running for school board elections or things like that. 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:12.000 Like I think, I think we're seeing and I'm surprised 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:14.080 that education is the terrain right. It's been right in 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:15.520 front of us this entire time. 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:18.520 But it's always been the terrain right, Jonathan, Like we're 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:21.720 going back to Ruby Bridges and the integration of schools. 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:26.920 Schools have always been on the front lines of the 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:29.560 cultural wars. And I don't even want to call it 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:32.240 the cultural wars, because the cultural war would be to 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:35.080 presume that there are two sides that are fighting against 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:39.760 each other when it is one white supremacist party that 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:44.400 has always used education as there to as a weapon. 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:46.920 But don't you think that a lot of this came 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:50.920 out of when Trump said there are no facts I 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:53.800 actually won the election. It kind of opened the doors 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:56.080 for people to say, hey, wait, there are no facts. 0:16:56.440 --> 0:16:58.200 The story is whatever we tell it to And it's 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:00.920 been going on a lot before the election. But when 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:04.480 like even the narrative of our own democracy became kind 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:06.760 of up for grabs, like it's it's it was so 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:11.200 blatantly false that that Trump lost the election, but the 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:15.119 term win the election. But if you convince enough people 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:18.080 that the system was rigged or Trump actually won the election, 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:20.399 and then you overturn the school boards and stuff like that, 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:22.720 you can actually create your own reality. And so there's 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:26.120 something about this that flows for me, at least out 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:30.040 of Trump taking the most obvious fact in the world, like, dude, 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:32.439 you lost the election and saying we don't have to 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:35.160 stand for any fact that we don't agree with. Yeah, 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:37.359 And that to me like opened the doors. And so 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:41.040 in a way, obviously we're fighting back against that. But 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:44.479 these things to me like kind of all seem they 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.520 all seem connected, which is, there is no truth except 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:49.439 for the one that makes you feel good or something 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:51.600 something like that. And so in a way it just 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:59.080 seems to me like education is is I just I'm 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:01.920 thinking that any schools across the country have closed their 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:07.000 dei offices after the Supreme Court ruling. And have you 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:08.320 heard a lot of protests about that? 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:09.119 No? 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:12.399 Yeah, that's a and and to you to your point, 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:17.040 I actually, if we're if we're talking about the beginning 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:20.840 of the ends of facts, I want to go all 0:18:20.840 --> 0:18:23.919 the way back to you know, the beginning of the 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:29.040 climate change arguments. Right when science no longer became a 0:18:29.119 --> 0:18:33.040 black and white issue, right Like science and math are 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:37.800 pretty clear, right, there's not room for debate there. One 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:41.879 plus one equals two, right like water is wet, the 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:45.960 sky is blue. We exist because of gravity, right, Like 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:50.080 there are things that are factual. And once you had 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.800 a group that decided that no, no, these scientists don't 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:56.840 know what they're talking about, this isn't real, This isn't 0:18:56.920 --> 0:19:00.320 you know, this isn't actually happening. That was the beginning 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:04.480 of the creation of their own reality, getting their own 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:08.360 quote unquote scientists getting their own you know, doctors, and 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:14.560 creating this alternative set of facts. And I think that 0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:17.760 when we look at this now and we go to 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:21.480 Glenn Youngkin, right now we fast forward to Glenn Youngkin's 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:26.240 campaign for governor on CRT and parental choice, right which 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:30.120 all hearkens back to your kids, your white kids shouldn't 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:32.480 have to go to school with these black kids. That 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:35.639 should be your choice. There should be no mixing of 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:39.080 the races. That should be your choice, right Like, it 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:42.720 all hearkens back to those days, and to your point, 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:46.960 DEI offices are being closed, people are being fired from 0:19:47.040 --> 0:19:52.800 those roles that were created really the aftermath of George 0:19:52.800 --> 0:19:57.919 Floyd and then boom, they're gone. So it's like, I 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:03.359 don't education and the lack thereof have always been on 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:07.000 the front lines of pushing against white supremacy because the 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:10.040 more educated that people are, the more critical thought that 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:13.680 you instill in them, right, the more the less likely 0:20:13.720 --> 0:20:18.480 they are to be duped, and that's what they want. 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:20.639 And I just don't understand. I don't know how to 0:20:20.720 --> 0:20:25.720 break on through right past what it is that they are, 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:28.360 the bullshit that they are feeding. 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:33.119 It's interesting, right because education has been their unified front 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:39.000 and I just always wonder, have we done enough to 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:44.800 defend education? Right? Did we? Did we feel like? I 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:46.760 mean a lot of people felt like, Okay, brown versus 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:51.480 Board of Education is settled law of the land. It's 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:54.720 it's the progress narrative where we're opening the doors of 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:59.280 opportunity to everybody. And I do think that all those 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:03.080 core asumptions are completely up for grabs. Like I think 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:05.480 that if somebody like Trump or to Sant just wins, 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:08.080 you might see something like brown versus Board of Education 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:10.560 being thrown up for grabs. And so I just think 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:13.679 people have been relatively late to the game of like 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:18.480 seeing the centrality of education to all of this agenda, 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:21.919 But what does it mean to defend education? Like what 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:28.440 tools do we have to defend education? And I don't 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:33.280 like ending desegregation was a unified agenda that people could 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:37.320 agree upon, not everybody, but it became a kind of 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:44.720 rallying cry for legal interventions for building infrastructure. What is 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:48.560 our tool right now for defending education? When there are 0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:49.800 people all across. 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:52.960 This I mean, in my humble opinion, and I've said this, 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:55.480 and we've said this on this show so many times, 0:21:55.760 --> 0:21:59.280 it is people being activated at these school board hearings. 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:02.520 It is people like understanding, regardless of whether or not 0:22:02.560 --> 0:22:05.119 you have children that may or may not be in 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:11.920 the school system, that providing a robust and you know, critical, thoughtful, strategic, 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:17.160 you know, innovative education benefits the whole of society, right 0:22:17.400 --> 0:22:22.119 like and creating an incompetent workforce that is not going 0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:25.400 to be globally competitive. That Rohndesson said, Oh, we need 0:22:25.440 --> 0:22:27.320 to go back to the basics, the basics of what 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:31.440 we're battling against, fucking AI And you want to teach 0:22:31.480 --> 0:22:34.719 the basics, right, Like, the basics are not doing it 0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:37.960 because there are no basic jobs anymore because they've all 0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:42.080 been sent overseas. So I'm like, I'm confused about why 0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:47.400 people are not outraged, right, Like why there weren't thousands 0:22:47.480 --> 0:22:50.280 of people that were organized to fight back against their 0:22:50.280 --> 0:22:54.880 school boards when they were talking about, you know, reversing 0:22:55.040 --> 0:22:57.919 COVID restrictions. So you're just sending your kids into a 0:22:57.920 --> 0:22:59.520 fucking patriotish. 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:05.800 I am like, how can we defend education? I think 0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:07.680 this is a really important question, and. 0:23:09.040 --> 0:23:11.359 You have to run for office. Yeah, yeah, how you 0:23:11.359 --> 0:23:15.720 can like parents have like parents. Parental control is the 0:23:15.840 --> 0:23:20.480 rallying point and measure for the right. Then parents who 0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:23.919 are progressive, parents who believe in freedom and liberty and 0:23:24.119 --> 0:23:28.080 justice and actually believe in democracy. Those people need to 0:23:28.240 --> 0:23:33.560 be rallied right by the school bye, by the teachers' unions, 0:23:33.840 --> 0:23:37.399 by you know, the city councils. Like that's what needs 0:23:37.440 --> 0:23:40.280 to happen. This is not like making up things out 0:23:40.280 --> 0:23:40.880 of thin air. 0:23:41.200 --> 0:23:43.240 No, No, you're exactly right, and we've been talking about 0:23:43.240 --> 0:23:44.679 it for so long. Right, we need to run for 0:23:44.680 --> 0:23:47.120 school boards. It's not just about expanding the Supreme Court 0:23:47.119 --> 0:23:49.000 and all that kind of stuff. It is a grassroots thing. 0:23:50.280 --> 0:23:52.560 Do you think it's possible that, like, cause I think 0:23:52.600 --> 0:23:56.280 people got we got, we got put back on our heels, right, 0:23:56.320 --> 0:23:59.280 all of a sudden, the debate was about pronouns and 0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:03.119 about land statements, and in a way like those became 0:24:03.200 --> 0:24:07.680 metonyms for all liberalism. All education has become too liberal 0:24:07.760 --> 0:24:10.400 because boys are dressing as girls and stuff like that. 0:24:10.440 --> 0:24:12.280 And in a way we were. The fight was on, 0:24:12.359 --> 0:24:15.040 there was on their terrain. And so I guess the 0:24:15.119 --> 0:24:17.320 question it's it's a it's a question which is like, 0:24:17.640 --> 0:24:21.280 how do you reclaim education in a way that is 0:24:21.600 --> 0:24:27.639 mobilizing across the spectrum of Democrats independence, which isn't fighting 0:24:27.720 --> 0:24:30.080 about wokeism? Right. I think that what the right has 0:24:30.119 --> 0:24:33.280 been able to do is say all liberals are woke, 0:24:33.480 --> 0:24:36.479 and all everything woke is about fighting about pronouns, and 0:24:36.520 --> 0:24:39.840 it's very divisive for Democrats in a way, right, And 0:24:39.880 --> 0:24:44.359 so the issue is how can we defend education in 0:24:44.359 --> 0:24:50.119 a way that is completely unifying for Democrats? And I 0:24:50.119 --> 0:24:52.159 think the issue is, I think you're right, run for 0:24:52.200 --> 0:24:55.320 school boards, facts, truth, all that kind of stuff. We've 0:24:55.359 --> 0:24:58.000 just been put back on our heels and slow to 0:24:58.040 --> 0:24:58.360 the game. 0:24:58.480 --> 0:25:03.200 So I I mean the Vice President just spoke recently, right, 0:25:03.359 --> 0:25:06.880 and you know, at the dedication ceremony for Emma til 0:25:07.840 --> 0:25:14.040 and his mother, which happened recently, the President also remarked 0:25:14.080 --> 0:25:17.919 about education and learning our history and not denying it, 0:25:17.960 --> 0:25:21.600 that strong countries face all parts of their history, even 0:25:21.640 --> 0:25:24.560 the darkest ones, right, so as not to repeat them. 0:25:24.640 --> 0:25:28.359 The Vice President gave an impassioned speech and which you 0:25:28.400 --> 0:25:32.880 know had I forget who wrote it, but it's out 0:25:32.960 --> 0:25:36.040 right now, which was an article written by a Republican 0:25:36.080 --> 0:25:38.680 that said, I agree with the Vice President of the 0:25:38.800 --> 0:25:41.879 United States. Why are Republicans afraid of critical thought? 0:25:42.359 --> 0:25:42.439 Like? 0:25:42.560 --> 0:25:45.520 Why are they afraid of the truth? And that to 0:25:45.640 --> 0:25:49.760 me is the unifying message, right because it goes not 0:25:50.080 --> 0:25:52.840 just from the classroom, but it goes to Capitol Hill. 0:25:53.160 --> 0:25:55.920 And the denial of the election. You just had Rudy 0:25:55.920 --> 0:26:00.720 Giuliani just say finally in this deaf Nation suit that 0:26:00.800 --> 0:26:06.200 is being brought against him by by by by Shay 0:26:06.320 --> 0:26:09.359 Moss and her mother in Georgia, that oh, yes, I 0:26:09.400 --> 0:26:12.560 did lie about the election, right like that that there 0:26:12.560 --> 0:26:15.320 it is truth there, right, that I did lie and 0:26:15.400 --> 0:26:19.000 spread these lies about these women that destroyed their lives. Right, 0:26:19.400 --> 0:26:22.760 And so if we are to unify, the unified message 0:26:23.040 --> 0:26:27.400 needs to be about critical fighting for critical thought, and 0:26:27.440 --> 0:26:30.960 fighting for and fighting for truth right, and that goes 0:26:31.119 --> 0:26:34.920