1 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:11,040 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Saber Protection of I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: I'm Annie Reese and I'm more in Vocal Bum And 3 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: today we have a special guest on the show for you, 4 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: returning friend of the show, Dr Julius Skinner. Yes, thank 5 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. We're so happy to 6 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,119 Speaker 1: have you. Thank you for having me. It's nice to 7 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: be back. Yes, yes, if you have listened to our show, 8 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: you have heard Dr Julius Skinner. Before um, tea Time, 9 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: we did something about tea time. We did food waste 10 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: and we did a video together with old timey apple pie, 11 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: which was a delight very tall. Yeah, it was quite tall. 12 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 1: I mean it tasted delicious, but that was my biggest 13 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: takeaway with this is kind of difficult to eat. Yeah, 14 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: it was very like very slow eating pie. I had 15 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: to be yeah, which is fine, which is fine, mindful eating. Um, 16 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: And it was you know that the apples I really 17 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: feel like because it incorporates whole apples. And I think 18 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: that the apples that we were able to source, even 19 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 1: the smallest ones, were larger than the intended apple size 20 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: that we were dealing with. Um indeed, indeed, but still delightful. 21 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: It was. It was delightful it was, and and it's 22 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 1: always delightful to have you on here. Would you mind 23 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 1: giving kind of a brief a brief rundown introduction to 24 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,320 Speaker 1: our listeners who need a refresher maybe miss those episodes, 25 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 1: go check them out if you did. Uh, just about 26 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: about all the amazing things that you've done and who 27 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: you are? Yeah, we we We usually start these interviews 28 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 1: with a with a solid like, Hi, who are you? 29 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm yeah, so um, I mean and the author 30 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: of several food books like you mentioned and the latest 31 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:58,279 Speaker 1: being are Fermented Lives. UM. I also run a food 32 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: history and fermentation company called Root and so I do 33 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: fermentation classes. I do um in person workshops. Sometimes a 34 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: lot of what I do is online. UM. I do 35 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: consulting for people who want, like, um, a food historian 36 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: to look at like, you know, their book, manuscript or 37 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 1: something and be like, does this sound at all like accurate? Uh? 38 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: And so that's kind of fun. UM. I do writing coaching. 39 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: I do a bunch of stuff. Um, but yeah, I 40 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: am primarily a food historian and a fermentation enthusiast and 41 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: yeah that's me, yes, I mean, and obviously that means 42 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: you fit right in our wheelhouse of both Friends and 43 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: show because we are all about fermentation, we're all about 44 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: food history. And yes, you wrote a book and congratulations 45 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: because it's amazing and you said does copies and it's 46 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 1: so good. I love it so so much. And as 47 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: I was reading and I was like, why are you 48 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 1: so cool? Yeah, I was saying, I was saying in 49 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: classic move right before we started recording, like like yeah, 50 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 1: like I've just been like like taking little little snacks 51 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: out of it, just just like oh oh that's so cool. 52 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: Oh that one's so good. Oh thank you? Yeah. Yeah, 53 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: so it's been really fun. Yes, can you can you 54 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: tell the listeners about the book why you want to 55 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: write it? So, why fermentation? All of those things? Yes, 56 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: So it's I mean, the topic is giant, right, it's 57 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: the global history of fermentation, which is um a food 58 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: making practice found in every culture, you know, throughout the 59 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: world and across you know, thousands of years. So the 60 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: large topic, not not a small undertaking. Yeah, we we 61 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: probably we probably mentioned fermentation in every episode that we do, 62 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: partially because I loved screaming about bacteria poop, but also right, 63 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: like it's super fascinating. Yeah, yeah it is. And it's 64 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: you know, as as I kind of got into fermenting food, um, 65 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: you know, ten twenty years ago, I started trying to 66 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 1: look more into the history of it, and some you know, 67 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 1: some books mentioned some of the history like it's out there, 68 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: but it wasn't really all in one place. And I 69 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: kind of wanted to have, like, what is the comprehensive 70 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 1: history of this, or as comprehensive as you can get, um, 71 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: And so I started diving in and looking and I 72 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 1: ended up I initially was going to organize it geographically, 73 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: and then what I discovered, um, was that there's so 74 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: much overlap between obviously, like we're fermenting cabbages, for example, 75 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: in a bunch of different places, and so it kind 76 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 1: of it would be a really boring book if I'm 77 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: like and also here we fermat cabbage. People like okay, great, 78 00:04:56,440 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: thank you, Julia. I got it. So I ended up 79 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:06,960 Speaker 1: organizing it by themes instead, so you could I see like, 80 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: why are we fermenting the cabbage. Oh, we're preserving the cabbage, 81 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:14,559 Speaker 1: ratting flavor to the cabbage. We're you know whatever. Um. Yeah, 82 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 1: And that's how it came about. Uh. Yeah, it's it's 83 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: such a amazing world when you start digging into it, 84 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 1: because you're taking what is essentially such a simple process 85 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: that that it happens without any human intervention at all. 86 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: And that's probably how we got so many simultaneous little 87 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 1: pop ups of very similar products around the world. But 88 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean, because you're just talking about UM, 89 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 1: microbes eating your food and then excreting some kind of 90 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 1: flavor molecules and something that will usually preserve it in 91 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: some way, like an alcohol or something like that. And 92 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 1: but like right, like like out of that extremely simple 93 00:05:55,640 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: definition and simplified definition, UM, fermentation can work on food 94 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: and drinks, UM, on all of these levels, both practical 95 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: and pleasurable. UM, could you talk a little bit about that. Yeah, 96 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I you know, I think as you were 97 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,359 Speaker 1: saying that, the thing that came to mind is something 98 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: that I mentioned in the start of the flavor chapter, 99 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,919 Speaker 1: which is that our ancestors had taste buds and flavor 100 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: preferences and things like us. And I think that we 101 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: we we kind of sometimes assume that they were just 102 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: all eating, you know, terrible subsistence food that was flavorless, 103 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: and it's just not not true. And I think our 104 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: fermentation traditions we see around the world are a good 105 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: example of that. Um. Certainly, fermenting ads nutrition to food 106 00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: as well. Um, you know, but there's something like let's 107 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:51,919 Speaker 1: say West African sour sour grain porridges those Um, you know, 108 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: it's not like you need to preserve the dried grains 109 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: with fermentation, Like they're dried grains, they're pretty well preserved. 110 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:03,120 Speaker 1: But but know, from a nutritional and from a flavor standpoint, Um, 111 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: it really adds a lot. And um, yeah, it's yeah, 112 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: there's examples like that all over the world. Yeah, that's 113 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 1: one of the ones that I think I only personally 114 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: keyed into recently. Um, that's that the right. So many 115 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: of these processes are really digging into how to get 116 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: more nutrients out of those foods that you're trying to prepare. 117 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: And it's just so it's so it's so smart and 118 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: amazing that people figure this out. Yeah. Yeah, I feel 119 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 1: like it'd be very interesting to kind of watch the 120 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: process of folks trial and error and kind of you know, 121 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: how long did it take to do this, Like what 122 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: what kind of ends up having the flavor nutrition balance? 123 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: We like, what ends up you know, not working for us? Yeah? Um, 124 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:52,679 Speaker 1: I guess kind of along those lines, Could you talk 125 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: a little bit about what fermentation means to you, because 126 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: I know that it was kind of a personal journey 127 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: getting into it. Yeah, so, I, um, you know, I 128 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: always turned to Sandercats's definition of the transformative action of 129 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: microbes when I talk about fermentation itself. But I think 130 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: we have to consider that transformation as you know, a 131 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: personal transformation and the transformation of our food. You know, 132 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: for me, making fermented food is very much, you know, 133 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: kind of a center of Oh. I mean, I don't 134 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: know if I would call it like my wellness practice, 135 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: but my sanity part of a wellness practice, being saying 136 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: feels like a wellness practice. Yeah. So, you know, I 137 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: start every day before I do anything else, you know, 138 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 1: while I'm making my coffee or doing whatever, I will, 139 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: h kind of check on all my ferments, and like 140 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 1: I begin every day with them, I constantly, you know, 141 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: I feel like they're always teaching me. Like I'm always 142 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: learning something both about the access of fermentation and about 143 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, other life things that maybe aren't 144 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 1: exactly about fermentation itself, like for example, being patient. Like 145 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: it's not like any of this happens you know, right 146 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 1: then it's not like you're putting something in a skillet 147 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: and having it be done twenty minutes later like you were. 148 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: You were on somebody else's timeline and you kind of 149 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 1: have to wait for that somebody to decide when they're 150 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: going to start doing their thing, you know. And so 151 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:30,559 Speaker 1: it's been it's been really powerful in that way. Um, 152 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: you know. And it's also interesting because I started fermenting 153 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 1: food when I had you know, I didn't have a 154 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:37,679 Speaker 1: lot of money, but I had like a lot of 155 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 1: vegetables in my garden, and so it kind of became 156 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: this practice in like abundance and so like when I 157 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: have like my class that's preserving abundance, and when I 158 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: talk about that idea, like, um, that's kind of where 159 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: that comes from. Is that like recognizing how much you 160 00:09:54,960 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: have and how much these methods help you capture it? Yeah, 161 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: And it can be um such a such a connection 162 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: point to with um with you know, uh, your personal 163 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: ancestors or in terms of family recipes, or just in 164 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: terms of your your human ancestors around the world, because 165 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: like human history sort of hinges on fermentation. Um. Do 166 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: you think there are aspects of that that that you're 167 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: just super into that. You think that maybe people don't 168 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: realize I mean, I think, you know, I mean, at 169 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: the most basic level, if we look at evolution, I mean, 170 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: like what did we evolve from? We all evolved from microbes. 171 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: I mean, if you go far back enough, you know, 172 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,800 Speaker 1: and so it's like we're not only dealing with like 173 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 1: foods that are ancestors made our human ancestors, but we're 174 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: also kind of in a way collaborating, you know, with 175 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: these microbial ancestors, and we're kind of working together in 176 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 1: that way. And that's you know, I mean a huge oversimplification, 177 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: and microbiologists listening are probably like, that's not exactly correct. 178 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:08,960 Speaker 1: But but like you know, very broad strokes, like when 179 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 1: we think about like microbes that we've had a long 180 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: relationship with, I mean, the reason why our microbiome is 181 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: so important to us is because we eventually became the 182 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: host of these microbes and still are and kind of 183 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: help each other out, um, you know, and I think too, 184 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: um when we think about that sort of um ancestry 185 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: and about you know, kind of the impact that this 186 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 1: can have on somebody, UM and exploring that. I mean, 187 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: something I talked about in the book is making sewings, 188 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: which is this fermented oat um like porridge situation. And 189 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: you know, it was really interesting because I had never 190 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: had it before. I had no idea what it was. 191 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: I came across it while I was doing research and 192 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: I was like, okay, like let's make that thing. I 193 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: tasted it, and I was like, this is really familiar. 194 00:11:57,800 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 1: Like I feel like I've been eating this my entire 195 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: life and I hadn't been. So it's kind of this 196 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,599 Speaker 1: like and I've talked with people, you know, who have 197 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: had that experience with other you know, foods that like 198 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: their ancestors would have eaten, but they hadn't eaten um, 199 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 1: and so that, you know, that was also kind of 200 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: something I found very interesting about it. Yeah, yeah, the same. 201 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: I mean that was one of the my very favorite 202 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: things was when you would be talking about like this 203 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 1: connection between like fermentation and just how humans work and 204 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: humans and microbes how they work together. And I love 205 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: that kind of sense of place of like wild fermentations. 206 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 1: And there's something that's really fascinating to me about like 207 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: you can you can plan things to a degree, but 208 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: then you're kind of just say, let's see what happens. 209 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: It's based on what's around me and what I can find. 210 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: And I love that. I find that so so interesting. Yeah, 211 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: like a decenters us from being like the soul driver 212 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: of a cooking practice, and since we're very good at 213 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:08,319 Speaker 1: centralizing ourselves, it's kind of refreshing to be like forced 214 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: out of that position. Yeah, it's kind of exciting. It's like, oh, 215 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: let's see what happens. Like yeah, no, no, yees, you'll 216 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: take the wheel, like right, Um, we we are ostensibly 217 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: a food show. Um. But you also talk in the 218 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:34,599 Speaker 1: book a lot about other areas of culture that use fermentation. 219 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:40,120 Speaker 1: Can you talk about a few of those, um, yes, 220 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: So like in dying, for example, UM, like dying like 221 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:50,199 Speaker 1: cloth not not. I mean, it's like there's also fermentation 222 00:13:50,240 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 1: connected with that, but that's different, Um yes, cloth dying 223 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: or you know, making inks and whatever. I mean, there's 224 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: a lot of um, a lot of fermentation used to 225 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: make say, indigo die, um, which has you know a 226 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: really pretty intense, um and awful history, including here in Georgia. UM. 227 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 1: But you know is still you know, is one of 228 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: the ways that we used fermentation in outside of food, um, 229 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: you know, in other things. Like ink making, even non 230 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 1: fermented inks will often use vinegar as a preservative. Um. 231 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: When I make um oak goll ink, which is you 232 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: know those like wasp gulls on um on oak like 233 00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: oak branches. Oh sure, yeah, so you can take that 234 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: and you take like some other like some iron filings, 235 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: and you like cook it down. It makes this really 236 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: beautiful um ink and then you add vinegar to stabilize 237 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 1: it or to preserve it. And yeah, so there's there's 238 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: a lot of different ways. I mean, the arts and 239 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: craft stuff is one of the things I'm most interested in, 240 00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: because you know, I do a lot of arts and 241 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: craft stuff in my life. But yeah, but you know, 242 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: I mean there's all kinds of like industry applications and 243 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: you know, all kinds of you know, we're kind of 244 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: at this interesting moment where we are both very like 245 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: returning to these traditional methods like the stuff I do 246 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: where I just like throw stuff in a jar and 247 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: kind of see what happens. And it's very like the 248 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 1: most low tech and also at the moment where we 249 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: have you know, these like dedicated you know biotech companies 250 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: working on you know, strains of use that will break 251 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: down this specific thing in this specific way or something. Um. Yeah, yeah, 252 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: all of these right industrial levels of of either um, 253 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: you know, harnessing the power of fermentation to break down 254 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 1: pollutants in our environments um or or right to produce 255 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: products like um flavor molecules or medicines, all kinds of things. Yeah, 256 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: it's a really interesting time to kind of have both 257 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: of those in tandem, having such just so many different 258 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: ways that we can approach fermentation more than you know, 259 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: we've had in the past. Yeah, and it is so new. 260 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: I I forget about that all the time. But right, 261 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: you know, we didn't have a have have like self 262 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: theory until what the eighteen thirties, and so we didn't 263 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: understand how any of this worked until like Carlsberg Labs 264 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: and stuff like that started working in it. Yeah. Yeah, 265 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: it's all all rather new, and yeah, it's but it's 266 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 1: very interesting because we had, like we had an understanding 267 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: obviously that something was happening, and yeah, like the different 268 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: ways that we described, like the unseen forces that are 269 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: shaping this, you know over time. UM, Like, it's not 270 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: surprising to me that fermentation becomes the source of so 271 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: many like you know, myths, deity myths, like you know, 272 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: all these different you know, stories that kind of connected 273 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: with the divine in some way. We've got more of 274 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: our conversation with Julia, but first we've got a quick 275 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 1: break forward from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you sponsors, 276 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,760 Speaker 1: and back to the interview. You've been talking a little 277 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: bit about UM, the ways in which some of this 278 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 1: historical research resonates with people and how it's resonated with you. 279 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,199 Speaker 1: Have there been any any pieces that UM that you 280 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 1: can share with us that just really you were like, oh, oh, 281 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: I mean I think that you know, that's so in 282 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: the example was a really good like that was maybe 283 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 1: the most like you know, personally kind of profound one. 284 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean there's something that that I came 285 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,439 Speaker 1: across UM while doing research for the health chapter, was 286 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: you know, Chinese medicine iurveda UM humoral theory like all 287 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: these different traditional healing modalities around the world that I 288 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:19,439 Speaker 1: mean explicitly bring in food UM as medicine in a 289 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: way that we definitely lost sight of for a long 290 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:26,439 Speaker 1: time and are starting to maybe think of again. But 291 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 1: you know, but also thinking about UM individualized medicine. You know, 292 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 1: food is medicine and about how flavor can help us 293 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 1: kind of strike balance between things, and you know, in 294 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: sour flavor being one of those things, um kind of 295 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: you know, in Chinese medicine, thinking about for example, like 296 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: it being more prominent in the spring kind of waking 297 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: your body back up and all of that. Um. So yeah, 298 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: that was. That was something that I was like, oh 299 00:18:56,560 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: that makes sense. Um, you know. One of the things was, 300 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 1: you know, some of the flavor pairings that we have 301 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,560 Speaker 1: are based rooted in this, so you know, vinegar and pork, 302 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: lemon and fish, like these sorts of things are actually 303 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 1: humoral medicine based and kind of thinking about like oh, 304 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 1: like of course, like that makes sense because our you know, 305 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 1: all of this informs each other, Like of course that 306 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:21,919 Speaker 1: would be true. But yeah, it was. It was interesting 307 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 1: to see it born out. Oh yeah, that stuff is 308 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 1: so it's so deeply ingrained in our culture, um that 309 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 1: that we mostly don't even think about it or talk 310 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: about it anymore, but it is so fascinating when you 311 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: dig in. I think that that was one of my 312 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 1: favorite Weird offshoot episodes where like, yes, we're sensibly a 313 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:40,400 Speaker 1: food show, but we've got to do an episode about 314 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: humoral medicine, and I was like, yeah, yeah, it's so 315 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: like there's so much to dive into with it, like 316 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: because I always, you know, I think when we're growing 317 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: up and we hear about it, it's like, oh, it's 318 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,360 Speaker 1: that crazy thing they use leeches, and it's like, well, yeah, 319 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 1: but that's a lot more. Yeah, and some of it, 320 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,679 Speaker 1: some of it does prove out, maybe not the leeches, 321 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 1: but not the leeches. Um. I guess. Sort of speaking 322 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: of do you, do you have any like super favorite 323 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 1: weird historical sources, because you you do like like as 324 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:19,400 Speaker 1: a historian you get to go into some weird collections 325 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 1: and look at some of these original sources. Do you 326 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:27,479 Speaker 1: have any favorite ones? I mean, I really like I 327 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 1: like just going in and you know, kind of like 328 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:31,880 Speaker 1: when you're playing in the kitchen, like you know, kind 329 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: of allowing yourself to be surprised and allowing yourself to 330 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: have you know, that serendipity. Um. I like the first 331 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:44,639 Speaker 1: collection that I worked with that was a culinary history 332 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: collection is at the University of Iowa. UM. And if 333 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: you have any listeners in Iowa who you know, ever 334 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 1: go to the sath Maury collection. They'll know what I'm 335 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 1: talking about. It's really very cool. Um, lots of old 336 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: old books and then lots of other things as well. 337 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: And yeah, it was very very fun to go in there. 338 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: And that's you know, that's where I found the first 339 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,679 Speaker 1: old cookbook that I ever started working with, you know, 340 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: years and years and years ago. Um, the one that 341 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:20,679 Speaker 1: the Tall Pie is from. It comes full circle, always 342 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 1: comes sounds about, right. Yeah, we we do. We do 343 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: always love finding and reading out I think that's one 344 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: of Annie's personal specialties is reading out old timey recipes 345 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: that are in a version of English that no longer 346 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: really exists. Yeah. Well in the format of them too. 347 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,439 Speaker 1: I mean, it's so interesting to read them and have 348 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: like try to translate them from modern cooks. That's that's 349 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: always kind of an interesting, interesting feat. Yeah. I feel 350 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: like usually I do really well until I get to 351 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:58,920 Speaker 1: the lasts, and it's for some reason, the lass and 352 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: it's always where I'm like, what are you talking? I 353 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 1: feel like the last sentence and a lot of those 354 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: like it, it's just like all the information is already 355 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: pretty condensed, and then it's like it's just like it 356 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: is an extra condensed. It's like, okay, now, put this 357 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: over a fire for five days and then like you know, 358 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: and store it in the usual way, and you're like, 359 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 1: what does that mean? What's the what kind of fire? 360 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: How big is the fire? Right? Exactly? My landlord is 361 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:35,640 Speaker 1: going to be mad. I don't even have a fireplace. 362 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: Does a Yankee candle count? What's going on? Well? It 363 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: was interesting because we joke, you know, we are sensibly 364 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 1: a food show. We are so many things come up, 365 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: We see so many trends that come up. Fermentation is 366 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: always mine, But when this way are you told that? 367 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, was the friendship bread? And 368 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: kind of how you got into fermentation around that and 369 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: it because of the pandemic and something people were doing 370 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 1: like sour dough bread. It just made me think about that. 371 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: But it's just like all of these examples of things 372 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,199 Speaker 1: that we might not consider at first that fermentation is 373 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: involved in, but it is. And then something like that, 374 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:20,679 Speaker 1: like I did that in college too, and it was 375 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: so kind of like, oh, somebody gave this to me. 376 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: It's like a pet and fere like, Okay, we're gonna 377 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: get through this together and we're all going to enjoy 378 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: this at the end, which I love because I think 379 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 1: like you did such a good job of illustrating that point, 380 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: and which is when we try to make off and 381 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,439 Speaker 1: in the show is like you're talking about fermentation, but 382 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 1: you're talking about so much more. You're talking about friendship bread. 383 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: Like the name is friendship. I just I loved it. 384 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: I loved it. UM. And and kind of related to that, 385 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: you had a lot in there about you know, communities 386 00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:00,119 Speaker 1: and being respectful of communities and fermentation and things like 387 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 1: food insecurity and waste and how fermentation can play such 388 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 1: a huge role in that. Can you talk about that 389 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:12,479 Speaker 1: for a little bit. Yeah, yeah, so, UM, in a 390 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 1: lot of my classes and in my life, and obviously 391 00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: also in this book, UM, I talk a lot about 392 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 1: food waste and reducing food waste. UM. Fermentation is a 393 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: really powerful way to do that because it allows us 394 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,679 Speaker 1: to change the flavor and texture of whatever various scraps. 395 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: But it can also be a good jumping off point 396 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 1: as well. So one example I often give is using 397 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,800 Speaker 1: things like herb stems in putting them in vinegar and 398 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 1: then you have it's like, okay, well now you have 399 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,919 Speaker 1: a flavored vinegar. UM, and you didn't throw all that 400 00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,880 Speaker 1: stuff away. You know, and you can you can take 401 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,919 Speaker 1: fermented things that you make and if you like the 402 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: flavor and don't like the texture, you know, you can 403 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: put it in a dehydrator and dry it and like 404 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 1: then you can still use it in some other way. Yeah, 405 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 1: I I like using fermentation uh as a food waste 406 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: producing method for a couple wastes or a couple of reasons, 407 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: you know, one like I just said, the flavor component, 408 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: and another being that it's really accessible, you know, I'm 409 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: I'm able to do something like go and teach a 410 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,639 Speaker 1: class in a community garden and people with very limited resources, 411 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: you know, can probably track down a jar and some 412 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: salt and um. You know, we can kind of go 413 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: from there. You know. It's and it's something that is 414 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: very nourishing. It's something healthy, and it's something that you know, 415 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 1: especially if we're talking about food and secure areas where 416 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: people have limited access to fresh food and want to 417 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: stretch that food. You know, I mean, if you're not 418 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: giving people, if people don't have the ability to um 419 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: to access probiotic food, and maybe you don't know how 420 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 1: to make probiotic food, you know, I mean, I don't 421 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: want to say like probiotic food is a panacea, because 422 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: nothing is, but it certainly is important for our health, 423 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: and you know, it can be a good way to 424 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: empower folks and you know, and again it's affordable and 425 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 1: you know, really customizable, really versatile. Um, it's something I 426 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 1: think we really we could handle to tap into more 427 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: as cooks when we think about being a little gentler 428 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:25,880 Speaker 1: on the earth with our our practices. Yeah, and I 429 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: I talked about this a lot on the show I 430 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: I lived by myself. I'm somebody who's very particular about 431 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: leftovers and ways. Laura and I just talked about this. 432 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 1: And so when I was reading your book, it's so 433 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: helpful because not only does have like all these cool 434 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 1: like historical facts and history, but you have recipes. You 435 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: have recipes throughout of how to put this into practice 436 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: that are helpful, accessible, pretty easy. And there were so 437 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:52,640 Speaker 1: many ingredients where I was like, I'm trying to find 438 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: a way to use this up and you had a 439 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,120 Speaker 1: recipe in there and I was like, Ah, that's amato paste. 440 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 1: This is what I did you try like all of 441 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: those recipes? Have you tried all of them? Oh? Yeah? 442 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: It's well And it's interesting because I started so I 443 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: I wrote the bulk of this book. I had gotten 444 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: the contract before lockdown, but the bulk of this book 445 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:21,159 Speaker 1: happened kind of during UM and so I had written. 446 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: I'd probably written about half of it. By lockdown. I 447 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 1: was like, Okay, it's time to like start writing and 448 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 1: testing the recipes as all of our grocery stores were 449 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: having shortages and you know, everything was chaos and you know, 450 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: and so it's very interesting because I tried to cook 451 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,679 Speaker 1: in a very you know, waste reducing way anyways, but 452 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: I kind of had no choice. Um, there were recipes 453 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 1: that I wanted to make that just like I was like, 454 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 1: well that's not you know, that's not going to happen. 455 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: I was going to try to I can't remember what 456 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 1: I was going to make. There was like a fish 457 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:54,920 Speaker 1: thing I was going to make, and just nowhere had 458 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: the kind of fish I wanted. So I was like, 459 00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,199 Speaker 1: never mind, not that one. Yeah, not that one. But 460 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 1: you know, and I mean I don't do a ton 461 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 1: of ton of meat fermentation anyways, but um, so it's fine. 462 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: But like I'm looking at I like wrote a little 463 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: list of all of the recipes for easy reference. Yeah, 464 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: and you know, I mean it's yeah, A lot of 465 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: these are ones I mean that are both you know, 466 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,359 Speaker 1: both standard in my in my kitchen practice and also 467 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 1: you know, things like the banana vinegar. I mean, it's 468 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: kind of one of my go to waste reducing things 469 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:36,439 Speaker 1: because like I I always I always assume I'm going 470 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,479 Speaker 1: to eat a lot more bananas than I do. Like 471 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: every time I buy bananas, like I'm gonna have a 472 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: banana every day this week, Well, no you're not, because 473 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 1: they're going to be like inredibly nearly after like three days, 474 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 1: and they're gonna be mushy and terrible and you're not 475 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: gonna want them, yeah, and so and so then I 476 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: make fanacraft them. Well that is that is always the 477 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: produce thing. I have such a hard time with that. 478 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: It's and we we we talked about that on the 479 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: show sometimes, I think most recently in our Pairs episode, 480 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: where I'm like, oh man, i have these really well 481 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: intentioned pairs sitting in my kitchen, but I'm not going 482 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: to remember to check them when they're probably going to 483 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 1: be ripe, and then they're not going to be good 484 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: after that, and so yeah, yeah, yeah, now and I 485 00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: do with you know, I also live alone and have. 486 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: I tend to buy a lot of produce and then 487 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, but it's just me here. What did 488 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 1: I do? Yeah, so I do a lot of just 489 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: like oh crap, I've got to pickle that like now, 490 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 1: um projects and so you know that way, if I 491 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: like go out of town or whatever, you know, it'll 492 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: still be fine when I get back. Yeah, I mean 493 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,480 Speaker 1: the pandemic. I I joked about it a lot on 494 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: the show. For me, it's not quite the same, but 495 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: I did have to get pretty creative. Um, well, I 496 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: have this. This is what I have. I can't find 497 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: anything else. Let's see what I can do. And I 498 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 1: do really like that aspects of it UM. And there's 499 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 1: something about reading your book where I don't know, there 500 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: was just something powerful about knowing we've been doing that forever, 501 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: Like even though it looks slightly different now, we've been 502 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: doing that forever. And like you having that moment of 503 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,479 Speaker 1: you know, with the soulan's and you're like, oh, I'm 504 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: connecting to this even though I don't really have a 505 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 1: particular like memory with it UM. And you say in 506 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: there you talk a lot about about like fermentation as 507 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: community um both within like your body but within the community. 508 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 1: But you also say like you're looking for big conversations 509 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 1: with this, if you could expound on that point. Yeah, 510 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I think, you know, fermentation, Like we've talked 511 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: about touches on so much, you know, I think the 512 00:30:57,720 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: food waste is a good place to jump off because 513 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 1: it's a reminder of that we you know, it's not 514 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: like we've had supermarkets for really most of history, and 515 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: we've just had a very different relationship to eating and 516 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: a lot of the foods that we consider to be 517 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 1: kind of staple foods and a lot of our diets 518 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: were developed based on that, and you know, like the 519 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: boxed mac and cheese, canned soup, you know, whatever, whatever 520 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: is like a much more recent phenomenon, you know, a 521 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: modernization of those things. Yeah, And so you know, I 522 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 1: think one of the conversations I enjoy having is about 523 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: this sort of like the power of using these traditional 524 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: foods in our you know, in our kitchens and making 525 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: them and interacting with them, and you know, and I 526 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 1: was talking about the personal journey of this and how 527 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: that I've connected so much with so many other parts 528 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: of my life and interest through doing this, you know, 529 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,640 Speaker 1: And one thing I think about a lot is community 530 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 1: and so UM you know, with community, when we're making 531 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 1: a traditional food UM in a group which is in 532 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 1: a lot of UM, a lot of places. Over time, 533 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 1: you know, it still sometimes happens today You'll have big 534 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:16,120 Speaker 1: like sara kraut making parties, kimchi making parties, you know ums, 535 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 1: people get together and have like homebrewing days like you 536 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: know whatever. But it's like you're making you're making this 537 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: thing that both brings your community together once during the 538 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: making and you get to catch up and all this 539 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 1: good stuff. But you're also providing your community food security 540 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,840 Speaker 1: in the future, and so you're caring for your community 541 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 1: and kind of this long term holistic way UM that 542 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: I think is outside of what UM. You know, just 543 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 1: like when we talk about like food and community, and 544 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: it kind of often becomes like this kind of pithy 545 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: statement that it's like like food brings people together, and 546 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: it's like, okay, well what does that mean? Now? How 547 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 1: does it bring people together? You know? And I think 548 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: this this book was nice to commun enity chapter was 549 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:02,880 Speaker 1: nice because I got to like dive into that and 550 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: be like, okay, like how does it do that? Um? 551 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 1: And that you know that sort of gathering and that 552 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 1: sort of like intergenerational knowledge sharing. You know, something I 553 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 1: talk a lot about in there is about the preservation 554 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 1: of um of culinary knowledge, of fermentation knowledge, in particular 555 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 1: the you know, we're talking about techniques that are primarily 556 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 1: used throughout history by people who were not considered you know, 557 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 1: valuable enough to record their information. So you would have 558 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,719 Speaker 1: women's servants, enslaved folks like a lot of people who 559 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: maybe didn't have access to either literacy or two or 560 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: were you know, considered important enough to write about a 561 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: lot of their techniques, and everything would be lost. And so, 562 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of when I think about community 563 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: building too, is like we're like we're the anchor point 564 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,719 Speaker 1: between the past and future, Like we get to decide 565 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: what's coming from the past and staying with us and 566 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: coming to the future. And so we are at a 567 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 1: critical decision point of saying, I want these culinary traditions 568 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,439 Speaker 1: to survive. Well, it's on me to write down how 569 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: Grandma does this. It's on me to do whatever, Like 570 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 1: I'm the one that gets to pick. So that's kind 571 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 1: of a whole soapbox. I can go on, but I'll 572 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:29,920 Speaker 1: leave it there. Yeah, we love us. So we have 573 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: a lot more ground we want to cover in this conversation, 574 00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: but first we have a quick break for word from 575 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: our sponsor. We're back, Thank you sponsor, and speaking about 576 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,759 Speaker 1: these communities, you know, like like so much about fermentation 577 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: is so incredibly specific to UM, to the person who's 578 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 1: working with it and the place where they're working and 579 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 1: UM and the the traditions that have been handed down 580 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,840 Speaker 1: to them. But there are, as we were talking about earlier, 581 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 1: so many practices or tropes that endure across cultures. UM. 582 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: In doing this research, did you find any examples of 583 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 1: that that really surprised or fascinated you? I mean, one 584 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 1: thing that I found was very interesting. UM, I'm not 585 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,840 Speaker 1: sure I would say surprising, but it was. I found 586 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 1: it really fascinating. UM. Was that a lot of different cultures, 587 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,360 Speaker 1: you know, like we talked about UM or, like you 588 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 1: just said, rather our specific fermentation practices, you know, are 589 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:43,400 Speaker 1: are specific toss Um in a lot of ways. You know, 590 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,400 Speaker 1: the way that I'm going to make sauerkroud is probably 591 00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 1: slightly different than the way you might and the place 592 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 1: where I live might make it taste a little bit 593 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 1: different than the place that you live, but yeah, I 594 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: mean as far as kind of the cultural significance of things. 595 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 1: You know, one thing that I found very interesting as 596 00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,880 Speaker 1: I was doing my research was alcohol and kind of 597 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: the role that like we um, we assigned alcohol in 598 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: different cultures as being you know, something that was like 599 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: gifted to us from by the gods, and it was 600 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 1: like a gift that gave us like knowledge and inspiration 601 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: and like all of these things that like make us 602 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: feel really good like it does when we have a 603 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:26,799 Speaker 1: few drinks. Um. Yeah, I'm sorry. You know that that 604 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 1: was interesting because of course, like you know, I mean, alcohol, 605 00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,360 Speaker 1: like ethanol is intoxicating wherever you are, so like I 606 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:41,880 Speaker 1: guess it makes sense. Uh um, okay, do you? Um, 607 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 1: do you have any Let's let's say that someone is 608 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: totally new to this entire conversation and they are similarly inspired, um, 609 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:55,839 Speaker 1: drink responsibly but similarly inspired. Um do you is there 610 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,040 Speaker 1: like a like a good ferment for folks to start 611 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,759 Speaker 1: to experiment with. I'm honestly, I think just like you know, 612 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: something simple like sauer kraut is a really good, good 613 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 1: kind of starter starter one you know, I'll have I'll 614 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,200 Speaker 1: have people ask like, oh, I've never made ferment before. 615 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:12,880 Speaker 1: I want to make like vinegar, I might want to 616 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 1: make fish sauce or I one or whatever, and like 617 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,359 Speaker 1: those are also really easy, but something like sauer kraut 618 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: is like a one step process. You kind of just 619 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 1: like you make it, you put it in the jar, 620 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: you check the jar, you make sure it's you know, 621 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 1: doing its thing, and then you have suberkraut. And the 622 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 1: next time about vegetables, it's like if it smells like 623 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 1: fermented vegetables, like if it smells like suer kraut, suberkraut, 624 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 1: like you don't have to worry about like, oh, is 625 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 1: is my suer kraut gonna kill me? Like if it's 626 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: got like red mold or something on it, like yeah, 627 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 1: I don't eat that. But like if it just looks 628 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,239 Speaker 1: like normal suer kraut and smells like suberkraut, like it's 629 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:54,759 Speaker 1: you know, it's very safe and fine. Yeah. Uh. Do 630 00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:59,439 Speaker 1: you have a favorite project that you've got going right now? 631 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,480 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think I have about a hundred things 632 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: fermenting right, Oh my goodness. And you're not supposed to 633 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 1: have favorites, I know, but I know, I know, I'm 634 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 1: in the other room. Maybe they can't hear me. So 635 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,720 Speaker 1: there's this interesting thing that, um, one of my friends 636 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 1: posted about about a month ago that I am trying, 637 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:26,000 Speaker 1: which is using sour dough discard um as the base 638 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 1: of brian to ferment cauliflower. And yeah, so it's like 639 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:36,520 Speaker 1: this really nice, like sour tasty cauliflower. I'm enjoying that. Um. 640 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:38,400 Speaker 1: You know, it's the time of year where I make 641 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 1: a lot of vinegar. I have a lot of you know, 642 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 1: apples and stuff, and so I tend to make enough 643 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,040 Speaker 1: cider vinegar to last me for the year, which is 644 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 1: a lot of cider vinegar. And I always end up 645 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 1: having to buy some around about June because I'll be 646 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 1: like it turns out like all of those gallons of 647 00:38:55,719 --> 00:39:09,440 Speaker 1: vinegar weren't enough. Whoops, cook too much. Yeah, uh, do 648 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,840 Speaker 1: you have like like a white whale of fermentation? Do 649 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: you have something that you've been like wanting to do 650 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,799 Speaker 1: and it's never quite gotten right or that like you 651 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,160 Speaker 1: haven't wanted to try yet because it just hasn't come 652 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 1: together in the right way. So I've made I've made 653 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,319 Speaker 1: like shorter term meat from it, like the only meat 654 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,840 Speaker 1: recipe I have. Um, in the book is for a 655 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:38,920 Speaker 1: tie a type pork sausage that like a sour sausage 656 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 1: that's like fermented like a few days. Like it's not 657 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: you know, it's not a very long ferment. But I've 658 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:48,439 Speaker 1: never done like a really long aged like salami sort 659 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:52,399 Speaker 1: of situation. Um. I've watched other people do that. I've 660 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,440 Speaker 1: like helped other people make it and then left and 661 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,799 Speaker 1: not experienced the fine product. But like I've never like, 662 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:00,520 Speaker 1: I've never actually made it start to finish. And yeah, 663 00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:06,759 Speaker 1: I think that would be fun. Oh yeah, goodness. Now 664 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:11,279 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about when we right what I'm thinking of 665 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:12,880 Speaker 1: of that that interview, We've got to go do it 666 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,080 Speaker 1: um home and in Finch and they talked us a 667 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,360 Speaker 1: little bit through their their house for ment program and 668 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,400 Speaker 1: everything they do in that cabinet. I was just like, 669 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:29,560 Speaker 1: oh no, um, but yeah, I guess um speaking speaking 670 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 1: of the future, what what else? What else does the 671 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 1: future hold for you? Are there any other projects you've 672 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,200 Speaker 1: got coming up that you can talk with us about 673 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:41,120 Speaker 1: or um, uh, just just research you're psyched about. Well 674 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:45,400 Speaker 1: I'm doing Um, I'm actually working on another book proposal 675 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,400 Speaker 1: right now I can't talk about. But I hope I 676 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 1: hope will be nice and well, I mean I hope 677 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,920 Speaker 1: that it comes to fruition that's the publisher wants it, 678 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,880 Speaker 1: and you know things. Um yeah, I mean right now 679 00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:05,080 Speaker 1: I'm writing a lot of articles. I'm mostly I'm really 680 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 1: enjoying kind of diving into my newsletter and playing with 681 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,239 Speaker 1: like different formats and thinking about food and like different angles. Um. 682 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,040 Speaker 1: I have an interview series in there, um as you 683 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:22,360 Speaker 1: both know, um and having been part of it, um 684 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 1: that I you know, where I talked with different folks 685 00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,200 Speaker 1: connected to food in various ways. Um. So I've been 686 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:32,000 Speaker 1: doing that. Um yeah, you know, I kind of have 687 00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,319 Speaker 1: these big, longer term dreams of like I would really 688 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:39,080 Speaker 1: love to like have kind of sander Cat style fermentation residencies, 689 00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 1: but like also with like you know, creative writing, art 690 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:48,680 Speaker 1: sort of like stuff involved to Um yeah yeah tie 691 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,800 Speaker 1: it all in right, Yeah, I like that would be 692 00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,520 Speaker 1: very fun. Um yeah, I don't know, like we'll see, 693 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:59,799 Speaker 1: Like I'm just writing and enjoying things right now. Now. 694 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,680 Speaker 1: That's an amazing that's an amazing place to be absolutely. 695 00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 1: Um well yeah. So so the book that we've been 696 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:11,120 Speaker 1: talking largely about today is again called Our Fermented lives 697 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,920 Speaker 1: a history. Um subtitle how Fermented Foods of Shape, Cultures 698 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:19,960 Speaker 1: and Communities. Um. But but where else can people find you? So? Um? 699 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:24,480 Speaker 1: On social I'm at book is Julia and Root Kitchens 700 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,799 Speaker 1: and if they want to read my newsletter at root 701 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:33,879 Speaker 1: Kitchens dot sub stact dot com. Heck, yeah, yes, yeah, 702 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,319 Speaker 1: yes do it listeners. Such a good book and if 703 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 1: you like this show, you will like this book. Yes, 704 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:46,480 Speaker 1: it's so it's so nerdy and funny and thoughtful and 705 00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:51,280 Speaker 1: like and sweet and it's just yeah, it's it's I'm 706 00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,400 Speaker 1: not buttering you up because you're looking at me on 707 00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,320 Speaker 1: a video call. It's it's it's really, it's really quite enjoyable. 708 00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,400 Speaker 1: So thank you, thank you for making this this beautiful 709 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:08,520 Speaker 1: weird thing, and thank you for being here. Always a 710 00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,720 Speaker 1: pleasure to have you. I look forward to hopefully meeting 711 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,879 Speaker 1: in person and maybe trying some fermented foods. Yeah, it's 712 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,400 Speaker 1: always a great, great part of it. Yeah, we definitely 713 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,360 Speaker 1: are overdue for an in person meet up. And it 714 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,759 Speaker 1: is always like a lovely, like selfish part of a 715 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,160 Speaker 1: good Julia visit. I'm just like, oh man, she's going 716 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:29,919 Speaker 1: to give us something weird. It's gonna be so good 717 00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:38,960 Speaker 1: refrigerators like amazing every time. I oh wow, it's a 718 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:43,840 Speaker 1: lot going on. Well, thank you, thank you, thank you, 719 00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,319 Speaker 1: thank you again for being here. Um listeners, go check 720 00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,279 Speaker 1: Julie out if you haven't already. Uh and you can 721 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,480 Speaker 1: contact us if you would like. Our email is hello 722 00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,440 Speaker 1: at saborpot dot com. We are also on social media. 723 00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,359 Speaker 1: You can find us on Facebook, Instagram and that other 724 00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:02,560 Speaker 1: one Twitter at saver pod and we do hope to 725 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,080 Speaker 1: hear from you. Savor is production of I Heart Radio. 726 00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:07,319 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit 727 00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,160 Speaker 1: the i Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 728 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,480 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows things. As always to our 729 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:15,840 Speaker 1: superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard, thanks to you for listening, 730 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:17,560 Speaker 1: and we hope that lots more good things are coming 731 00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:25,640 Speaker 1: your way