WEBVTT - QLS Classic: Terri Lyne Carrington

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<v Speaker 1>Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Hi, this is Sugar Steve from Quest Love Supreme. This March,

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<v Speaker 2>we're celebrating women's history at QLs, something that we've done

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<v Speaker 2>for years. Back in March of twenty twenty two, we

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<v Speaker 2>spoke to Terry Lynn Carrington about her years as a

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<v Speaker 2>jazz prodigy, some of the prejudice she faced as a

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<v Speaker 2>young female drummer playing with elder males, and how she

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<v Speaker 2>kicks down the doors for others as founder and artistic

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<v Speaker 2>director of the Berkeley Institute of Jazz and Gender Justice

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<v Speaker 2>as a jazz guy. I really enjoyed this episode. Whether

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<v Speaker 2>you heard it when it was first released or this

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<v Speaker 2>is your first time, we hope you enjoyed.

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<v Speaker 3>Ladies and gentlemen, another episode of Quest Loves Supreme. I'm

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<v Speaker 3>your host Quests Love. We got Team Supreme in the

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<v Speaker 3>hit House Fontigolo. Wow new If Bill Sherman were here,

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<v Speaker 3>he would notice that you're in yet another room in

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<v Speaker 3>the house.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, this is my studio. It's just easier for me here.

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<v Speaker 4>I normally recording my living room, but my.

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<v Speaker 3>Son was going to school out uhstairs, so I just

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<v Speaker 3>bring it upstairs to the studio.

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<v Speaker 4>And do it here.

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<v Speaker 3>Wait, virtual school is still going on or is it

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<v Speaker 3>optional them as well?

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it's option.

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<v Speaker 4>We did it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he'll be going back to classroom for the junior year,

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<v Speaker 3>but for this.

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<v Speaker 4>Year it was just the numbers around here were crazy,

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<v Speaker 4>so we put him in virtual Smart. We gotta be

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<v Speaker 4>smart man. Uh, Steve, where are you at right now?

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<v Speaker 4>I'm where you are?

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<v Speaker 2>In the sixty seven degrees at thirty rock.

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<v Speaker 4>We're freezing in thirty rock right now.

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<v Speaker 6>And yeah, keep that covid out.

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<v Speaker 4>It's cold. I know. Yeah, I freeze the COVID out definitely. Uh.

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<v Speaker 4>Where are you at with black part behind you?

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<v Speaker 6>Lamert all day?

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<v Speaker 7>That's where I'm Yoh yeah, I forgot to tell you

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<v Speaker 7>was here.

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<v Speaker 4>I took my first visit to Lahmurt Park.

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<v Speaker 6>You know why I can't stand.

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<v Speaker 3>I only had only had like thirty five minutes to

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<v Speaker 3>run the Juneteenth.

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<v Speaker 6>He was at the June teen festival.

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<v Speaker 4>I think I was in a legit episode of Insecure. Yo.

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<v Speaker 6>Somebody told me they saw black thought I thought they

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<v Speaker 6>was lying.

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<v Speaker 4>It was awesome. Yeah. I went to uh juneteen for

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<v Speaker 4>half a second. Then I went to.

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<v Speaker 3>Uh the Body Rule party like in another side of

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<v Speaker 3>l a like Saturday.

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<v Speaker 4>Man, it was.

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<v Speaker 3>It was one of the nicest, blackest experiences I've ever

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<v Speaker 3>had in Los Angeles.

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<v Speaker 6>People don't know about that. I'm glad you said that.

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<v Speaker 4>I forgot. Yeah, you're you're a Lamert Parker. Did you

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<v Speaker 4>enjoy it?

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<v Speaker 6>I loved it?

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<v Speaker 7>This was an amazing Juneteenth weekend. I mean, thank god

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<v Speaker 7>we came through. It was looking sketchy for a minute

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<v Speaker 7>because of Walmart and then but it came through nicely.

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<v Speaker 4>Damn ice cream.

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<v Speaker 5>You know, Bill, you know Billy Higgins had the World

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<v Speaker 5>stage there, so you probably if this is kind of

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<v Speaker 5>a Lamert Park yeah, then you never experienced that. But

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<v Speaker 5>that was really dope back in the day. I'm learning.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm learning, well, you know, if we if we bring

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<v Speaker 3>the festival back to Los Angeles, I think we're going

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<v Speaker 3>to travel with it, so we're looking at like Texas

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<v Speaker 3>and other spots.

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<v Speaker 4>But I definitely want to do another student team. Oh god, yeah.

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<v Speaker 6>Yes, yes, did you did it?

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<v Speaker 4>You did well?

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<v Speaker 3>There's nothing exclusive about one in the spread the June

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<v Speaker 3>teaenth love a Round anyway, y'all. As I was saying,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, I would say that this year for me

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<v Speaker 3>has been an awesome year for bucket listing, and I'm checking.

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<v Speaker 4>I guess I could say I'm checking a lot.

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<v Speaker 3>Of my musical heroes, bringing them on the show and

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<v Speaker 3>neuro and out on them. And our guest today is

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<v Speaker 3>absolutely no exception. I'll say that she's probably the first

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<v Speaker 3>young person male or female, the first young person that

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<v Speaker 3>I ever saw on a drum set. And I guess

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<v Speaker 3>at the time when I first I forget the name

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<v Speaker 3>of the show was like on PPS, like Rebop or

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<v Speaker 3>something like that. I forget what it was, but it's

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<v Speaker 3>definitely one of those like local Boston shows or whatever.

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<v Speaker 3>And to see a young kid on a drum set

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<v Speaker 3>definitely made an impression on me when I was a kid,

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<v Speaker 3>I forget what year it was, like, I was like

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<v Speaker 3>six or seven when I first saw you.

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<v Speaker 4>I think you were like twelve, thirteen or whatever. But

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<v Speaker 4>she's literally done it all.

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<v Speaker 3>Grammy's college professor, two time late night band leader, activist, producer,

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<v Speaker 3>collaborated with such luminaries like the great Clark, Terry, Wayne Shorter,

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<v Speaker 3>Herbie Hancock.

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<v Speaker 4>I know that you have to be in the meditation

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<v Speaker 4>if you if you have.

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<v Speaker 5>If you collaborate with those two, but I'm a bad Buddhist.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's Ron's Spalding the whole mosaic project with you know,

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<v Speaker 3>Diana Crawl and and and the likes al Ji Rose,

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<v Speaker 3>Dan Gets Clark, Terry Wood he Shaw.

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<v Speaker 4>I can go on and on and on. This has

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<v Speaker 4>been a long time coming.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you for your patience, because this is one of

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<v Speaker 3>these episodes where, you know, because of the courses and

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<v Speaker 3>the events of my life in the last month or so,

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<v Speaker 3>I've had to put this off at least three or

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<v Speaker 3>four times.

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<v Speaker 4>You've been very patient.

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<v Speaker 3>Finally I can say, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Quest

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<v Speaker 3>of Supreme Terry Lynn Carrington.

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<v Speaker 4>Thank you, Yes, I appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 5>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 4>How are you today?

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<v Speaker 5>I'm great. This is my pleasure talking to you. I'm

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<v Speaker 5>a big fan and I love everything that you do.

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<v Speaker 5>So the aberration is mutual.

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<v Speaker 3>We've never had an in depth, heart to heart like conversation.

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<v Speaker 3>So whenever I hear through other people like oh you know, Terrrisis,

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<v Speaker 3>what's up or whatever, you know it. Occasionally you've come by,

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<v Speaker 3>like I've seen you play a few gigs or whatever,

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<v Speaker 3>and I'm still mind blowing. Like there's there's always this

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<v Speaker 3>thing where you know, jazz musicians are so not above

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<v Speaker 3>the fray, but just like above whatever is below them

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<v Speaker 3>as far as pop music concern is concerned or whatever,

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<v Speaker 3>Like it's all one thing.

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<v Speaker 5>It's all black music, you know, Like I mean, it's

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<v Speaker 5>all comes from the blues. So there was something something

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<v Speaker 5>would be wrong with me if I didn't appreciate what

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<v Speaker 5>you did. You know, that would be like if any

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<v Speaker 5>you know, if I had a jazz friend, you know,

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<v Speaker 5>didn't appreciate you, I would be looking at them sideways.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I thank you for that. I appreciate.

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<v Speaker 3>Where are you talking to this right now from you

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<v Speaker 3>have a very interesting background. It looks like a mall

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<v Speaker 3>in a prison. At the same time, I have.

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<v Speaker 5>A few backgrounds. I'm at home, but that's just my

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<v Speaker 5>Berkeley background. Here's another Berkeley background. Yes, here's an animated

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<v Speaker 5>one with I don't know who's that, Chicak Yoh's red

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<v Speaker 5>and Alice Coltrane. Just when I just want to see

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<v Speaker 5>Obama drop the mic when I'm missing my grandmother. Okay,

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<v Speaker 5>there's our slogan. You can't really see it, but it's

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<v Speaker 5>jazz without patriarchy. Oh, and this one you might recognize.

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<v Speaker 5>This is from soul because you know, I was a

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<v Speaker 5>consultant on soul.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I know, I know, like they went above and

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<v Speaker 3>beyond the call of duty to ask every wow jazz

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<v Speaker 3>Luminaria for their for their advice.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it was fun doing that, was doing some meetings.

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<v Speaker 5>The first one Herbie was that I was probably the

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<v Speaker 5>only one in the room that you know, might have

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<v Speaker 5>a difference in opinion, you know, with Herbie and be

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<v Speaker 5>able to actually say it right, you know what I mean,

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<v Speaker 5>because everybody gets scared. So yeah, wow, here's my biggest mentor. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 5>So anyway, we.

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<v Speaker 6>Just had him on the show shorter.

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<v Speaker 5>Oh yeah cool.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm going to say I was shocked at the amount

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<v Speaker 3>of feedback we got for that particular episode, like a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of heavy jazz heads hit us because kind of

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<v Speaker 3>thank you for asking questions that we nor like aren't

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<v Speaker 3>normally asked, you know, and other Yeah.

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<v Speaker 6>Just letting him talk, That's what we did.

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<v Speaker 4>We let him talk exactly.

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<v Speaker 5>That's the right thing.

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<v Speaker 3>So I'm gonna start with you, Terry, the way I

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<v Speaker 3>always start the episode. Can you tell me what your

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<v Speaker 3>first musical memory was?

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<v Speaker 5>Wow, you know, they happened so long ago that it's

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<v Speaker 5>kind of like a movie that I'm a part of

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<v Speaker 5>that I watched and it feels real because I watched it.

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<v Speaker 5>But was I really there? You know what I mean?

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<v Speaker 5>Like I played tambourine when I was five years old

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<v Speaker 5>on stage with Ross and Roland Kirk, and that was

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<v Speaker 5>probably the first time I was on stage.

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<v Speaker 4>How many saxophones did he play?

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<v Speaker 5>Always at least three until he had a stroke, and

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<v Speaker 5>then I'll see him after that, and then he played

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<v Speaker 5>with one hand, one of the saxophone, but he might

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<v Speaker 5>have even worked too with the one hand, right, No, any.

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<v Speaker 4>Of that's surreal to you. I mean, I'm with the movie.

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<v Speaker 3>Those kids that I see, especially kids that are I

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<v Speaker 3>guess you could say progeny of like other I know

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<v Speaker 3>that your father and your grandfather were musicians as well,

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<v Speaker 3>so oftentimes you know, at least there's a realization moment

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<v Speaker 3>of what you're really into, but that usually comes in

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<v Speaker 3>your teens. But in the beginning, it's just like, Hey,

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<v Speaker 3>this dad and this granddad and here's some musicians around

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<v Speaker 3>the house. Like, but anything strike you odd about this?

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<v Speaker 3>You know this this guy with dread or I don't

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<v Speaker 3>know if he had dread locks back then, but playing

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<v Speaker 3>three saxophones at the same time, Like, nothing seemed odd

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<v Speaker 3>about that to you.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, but you know, when you're young, you don't really

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<v Speaker 5>pay attention to all that, Like you're just doing you

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<v Speaker 5>And I was having fun so and I was getting attention,

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<v Speaker 5>So I knew I was different from the other, you know,

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<v Speaker 5>elementary school kids that I was hanging out with, because

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<v Speaker 5>Ebony came to school to take pictures of me, you.

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<v Speaker 4>Know, I was affl after that.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, well, I mean from the black kids. You know,

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<v Speaker 5>there might have been I don't know, six or seven

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<v Speaker 5>in my class, so of course they knew what was happening.

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<v Speaker 5>The other kids, I'm not sure they knew what evan

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<v Speaker 5>it was.

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<v Speaker 4>But where did you grow up? Where were you born?

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<v Speaker 5>In Medford, Massachusetts?

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<v Speaker 3>How far is that from Boston to anyone outside of

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<v Speaker 3>New England, like Massachusetts, just like Boston, and then a

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<v Speaker 3>bunch of suburbs areas.

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<v Speaker 6>Where New Addition is from.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, Roxburgh.

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<v Speaker 3>Whoa, Oh damn, you grew up in Roxburgh.

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<v Speaker 5>Oh hell, no, okay, you go to Roxburgh. But my

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<v Speaker 5>dad would remind me, you know, you're from West Medford,

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<v Speaker 5>but our area of town, West Medford was the most

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<v Speaker 5>heavily settled black area outside of Boston. So like, for instance,

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<v Speaker 5>in my high school's four thousand people in high school,

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<v Speaker 5>close to four thousand, and at a time when I

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<v Speaker 5>was in high school, there were three hundred and sixty

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<v Speaker 5>five black kids, which is not quite even ten percent.

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<v Speaker 5>But when we had lunch, you know, I'm sitting with

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<v Speaker 5>two hundred black kids, So it felt like it was,

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<v Speaker 5>you know, it was a black environment.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, for our circle, it was Boston, the south

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<v Speaker 4>of the North.

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<v Speaker 3>Again, like I'm so triggered by anything to do with Massachusetts,

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<v Speaker 3>I just naturally think that Massachusetts is just one of

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<v Speaker 3>these states that escaped you know, the Confederate you know,

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<v Speaker 3>just based on what we've learned about it. But like

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<v Speaker 3>in your childhood, was it like that at all?

0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:48.160
<v Speaker 5>Or I mean I came like right after the busing situation,

0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:50.719
<v Speaker 5>and there was like a bit of a riot at

0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:54.280
<v Speaker 5>my high school about you know, surrounded by some kind

0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:57.280
<v Speaker 5>of race or about some kind of racial incident. But

0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:01.560
<v Speaker 5>I haven't right before I got to high school, and

0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:05.640
<v Speaker 5>I mean, you know, I was going into Boston weekly.

0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:08.240
<v Speaker 5>At least. I got a scholarship to Berkeley when I

0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:11.680
<v Speaker 5>was eleven, and I was going weekly.

0:12:12.720 --> 0:12:16.400
<v Speaker 3>I got to say, you went to Berkeley while still

0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:18.960
<v Speaker 3>in in junior high school?

0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:20.840
<v Speaker 4>Correct, So I.

0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:26.120
<v Speaker 5>Was elementary when I started, but that I went once

0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:29.160
<v Speaker 5>a week. So it wasn't like that big deal. You know,

0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:32.000
<v Speaker 5>I went after school once a week and took private

0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:37.560
<v Speaker 5>lessons and ensemble deal special. But what I mean is

0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:39.520
<v Speaker 5>it wasn't like stressful.

0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:41.200
<v Speaker 4>Berkeley reject that's a big deal.

0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:44.520
<v Speaker 5>Well that's their loss, right.

0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:45.960
<v Speaker 4>Damn right. I'm not bitter at all.

0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:52.440
<v Speaker 5>But what I'm gonna say though, is, you know, Boston is,

0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:55.720
<v Speaker 5>in a weird way, is kind of the most liberal

0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:58.720
<v Speaker 5>and conservative places you'll ever be. It's a total, you know,

0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:03.120
<v Speaker 5>dichotomy of these things. And everybody hates the Celtics and

0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:06.160
<v Speaker 5>all that, but you know, nobody ever talks about how

0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:08.800
<v Speaker 5>we had the first black coach and one of the

0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:10.880
<v Speaker 5>first black players. Hmm.

0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:13.120
<v Speaker 6>I never thought that about the Celtics for real.

0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:19.280
<v Speaker 5>Yeah. Yeah. So I'm just saying, like, there's a lot

0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:22.600
<v Speaker 5>of things wrong racially with what's happened here, but you know,

0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:27.000
<v Speaker 5>there's it's it's not all bad. And there were, you know,

0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:30.920
<v Speaker 5>places like where I grew up, I had heavily populated

0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:33.480
<v Speaker 5>black areas, and it was very you know, rich in culture.

0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:37.920
<v Speaker 3>All right, So if ever the Patriots or the Celtics

0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:41.960
<v Speaker 3>went again, I'll add you to my new edition file. Like, Okay, well,

0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:44.760
<v Speaker 3>at least you seven are happy.

0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:49.800
<v Speaker 6>So universal health care? Mayor Massachusetts did that first too?

0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:50.840
<v Speaker 6>Remember free health care?

0:13:51.000 --> 0:13:51.720
<v Speaker 5>Yeah?

0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:52.040
<v Speaker 4>Yep.

0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:54.880
<v Speaker 5>I mean, you know, if you're from a place, there's

0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:56.840
<v Speaker 5>got to be some love, you know, Like I used to.

0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:00.400
<v Speaker 5>I used to hate to go to Philadelphia, but you know,

0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:04.960
<v Speaker 5>I got happier as I went, you know, so as

0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:07.200
<v Speaker 5>I learn more about the city. Really, you know, I

0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:09.840
<v Speaker 5>used to not like Chicago, you know whatever. I'm like,

0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:12.240
<v Speaker 5>you have these experiences, and it's just as you grow

0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:15.320
<v Speaker 5>you have the other experiences that can make a place.

0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:18.719
<v Speaker 5>I have some nostalgia at the very least you.

0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:20.520
<v Speaker 4>Didn't like traveling in general or.

0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:25.120
<v Speaker 5>Just yeah, I mean, well I liked it. Now I

0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:27.720
<v Speaker 5>don't particularly care for it. I have a love hate

0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:31.320
<v Speaker 5>relationship because I am happiest sometimes when I'm just in

0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:34.880
<v Speaker 5>a hotel room and can close the shades and no

0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:40.320
<v Speaker 5>block everybody out. I know, because I'm not dealing with Oh,

0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:42.760
<v Speaker 5>I got to fix this in my house. You know,

0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:44.800
<v Speaker 5>I come home and I get stressed. I'm like, oh

0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:46.240
<v Speaker 5>my god, I got that paint the house, I need

0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:49.320
<v Speaker 5>a new roof, you know, all those things start kicking in.

0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:52.440
<v Speaker 5>But when I'm away, I can just I can just

0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:54.240
<v Speaker 5>focus on whatever it is I'm doing.

0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:56.800
<v Speaker 7>Can I ask a question, because I just want to know,

0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:59.080
<v Speaker 7>you say, from the jump, jazz was in your life

0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:02.400
<v Speaker 7>in the sense that like no other you weren't even

0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:04.560
<v Speaker 7>as a kid in school, because I mean you said

0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:06.160
<v Speaker 7>Berkeley when you were eleven.

0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:08.240
<v Speaker 6>So I'm like, did anything.

0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:10.280
<v Speaker 7>Else ever get into the household, er into your ears

0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:11.080
<v Speaker 7>outside of the lot?

0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:13.760
<v Speaker 5>Okay, yeah, I mean I was. I mean I listened

0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:15.960
<v Speaker 5>to the radio, and I listened to you know, like

0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:19.080
<v Speaker 5>my father started me off listening to what he would

0:15:19.120 --> 0:15:22.040
<v Speaker 5>consume more rhythm and blues, which at the time we

0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:25.080
<v Speaker 5>were talking about the early seventies. But for him, like

0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:28.320
<v Speaker 5>he played in horn sections with James Brown and Ruth

0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:31.040
<v Speaker 5>Brown and people like that when he was in college,

0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:35.600
<v Speaker 5>and so that's the kind of music he started me

0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:38.120
<v Speaker 5>off listening to because he thought I would be able

0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:40.680
<v Speaker 5>to relate to that, you know, more than John Coletrain

0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:44.720
<v Speaker 5>and Miles Davis. So I was listening to lots of Oregon.

0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:48.720
<v Speaker 5>You know lots of blues Jack McDuff, Jimy McGriff, and

0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:50.960
<v Speaker 5>you know some rhythm and blues of course, James Brown,

0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:55.640
<v Speaker 5>Ray Charles Raytha Franklin. And those are the records, you know,

0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:57.560
<v Speaker 5>a lot of the records that I remember, you know,

0:15:57.640 --> 0:15:58.280
<v Speaker 5>as a kid.

0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:00.800
<v Speaker 3>Can you tell me the first out that you purchased

0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:04.640
<v Speaker 3>with your own money? Not just that around the house,

0:16:04.720 --> 0:16:06.840
<v Speaker 3>like oh, let me see what dad's James Brown's altmore

0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:09.479
<v Speaker 3>into but like, yeah.

0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:11.920
<v Speaker 5>You know, like I don't know if I purchased it,

0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:14.200
<v Speaker 5>but I think I must have asked my parents to

0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:16.280
<v Speaker 5>get get it for me, because I'm not sure they

0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.920
<v Speaker 5>would have. For whatever reason, I was obsessed. And I

0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:23.880
<v Speaker 5>remember I had one of those kids it was green too,

0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:26.880
<v Speaker 5>one of those kids, uh phonograph players that had a

0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:27.960
<v Speaker 5>little speaker built in.

0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:35.120
<v Speaker 3>Right post preschool or whatever, Fisher Price record players. Yeah,

0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:36.800
<v Speaker 3>I feel like I know what this record or what

0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:37.440
<v Speaker 3>was the record?

0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:43.080
<v Speaker 5>Oh no, it was the Fifth Dimension. It was. I

0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:49.560
<v Speaker 5>was obsessed with Aquarius. H yeah, for some reason, the

0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:53.960
<v Speaker 5>age of the Aquarius, Like are you one? No no, no,

0:16:54.000 --> 0:17:00.600
<v Speaker 5>I'm a leo. Okay, I forget it for that being

0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:01.080
<v Speaker 5>the record.

0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:03.320
<v Speaker 3>No, no, no, no, no, no, I'm just saying, no,

0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:05.280
<v Speaker 3>it's for being a leo.

0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:09.440
<v Speaker 4>Get extra points if you're in a query for drumming.

0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:13.200
<v Speaker 3>Though, you know, I know that there's a sect of

0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:15.719
<v Speaker 3>people whose opinions are like, you know, at least for

0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:23.360
<v Speaker 3>ginger pairing, Like there are instruments that it probably deemed

0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:26.800
<v Speaker 3>that men should use only as far as masculine or

0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:32.160
<v Speaker 3>feminine whatever, like the women on drums really, in my opinion,

0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:36.560
<v Speaker 3>like an adjustment pre nineteen eighties. But at all, did

0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:38.680
<v Speaker 3>anyone ever discourage you, like, well, why don't you try

0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:46.840
<v Speaker 3>the piano or maybe a guitar, violin, yeah, clarinet, Yeah.

0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:49.680
<v Speaker 5>I don't you know, I don't know if anybody really

0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:54.520
<v Speaker 5>ever discouraged me. And I was, you know, I was

0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:59.439
<v Speaker 5>confident at a young age. So like, I think what

0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:02.040
<v Speaker 5>tells us story about that? For me, the best is

0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:04.280
<v Speaker 5>when I met Buddy Rich for the first time. I

0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:08.040
<v Speaker 5>was ten. I was a guest with Clark Terry Nice. Well,

0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:10.960
<v Speaker 5>that was the thing. Everybody said, stay away from him,

0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:13.280
<v Speaker 5>he's in a really bad mood. And I didn't care,

0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:16.720
<v Speaker 5>and I went up to him anyway, And so then

0:18:16.760 --> 0:18:18.919
<v Speaker 5>somebody stepped in and said, well, let me introduce you.

0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:21.239
<v Speaker 5>To young Terry. She's a guest with Clark Terry. And

0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:23.120
<v Speaker 5>he said, oh, yeah, you better not be any good.

0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:25.120
<v Speaker 5>And I just looked at him and said, well, who's

0:18:25.160 --> 0:18:25.800
<v Speaker 5>going to stop me?

0:18:25.960 --> 0:18:26.160
<v Speaker 6>Oh?

0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:32.360
<v Speaker 5>And then he said he kind of took a step back,

0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:34.040
<v Speaker 5>and then he said, you want to come play with

0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:36.800
<v Speaker 5>my band? Oh? You see what I mean?

0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:40.240
<v Speaker 6>Flax flax?

0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:43.000
<v Speaker 5>No, but it well, it wasn't that it was beautiful flax.

0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:45.560
<v Speaker 5>Well yeah, because I think it's how you're raised and

0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:48.800
<v Speaker 5>I was raised that this is my music.

0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:50.680
<v Speaker 6>Where did that confidence come from? Terry?

0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:53.560
<v Speaker 7>Like, do you remember, like did your parents something say

0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:56.800
<v Speaker 7>to you, like the impetus of that, Like, I think.

0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:58.280
<v Speaker 5>It's who you are. And that's why I do so

0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:01.919
<v Speaker 5>much gender equity work now because every woman shouldn't have

0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:04.080
<v Speaker 5>to be like me. I would go ahead to head

0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:07.040
<v Speaker 5>with any man, you know what I mean. And I'm

0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:12.399
<v Speaker 5>not intimidated by anyone. I can be I can be shy,

0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:15.720
<v Speaker 5>and I can be insecure. Of course, we're all insecure.

0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:18.359
<v Speaker 5>If I was playing a gig next to you, I

0:19:18.400 --> 0:19:20.800
<v Speaker 5>would be insecure, especially if I had to play the groove,

0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:26.680
<v Speaker 5>I'd be like, oh man, he's sitting next to me.

0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:33.840
<v Speaker 3>You're talking about sugar Steve and his engineering skills.

0:19:34.160 --> 0:19:36.960
<v Speaker 5>What I'm just saying, No, I'm serious, and so I'm

0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:39.000
<v Speaker 5>just saying that doesn't mean I think you can be

0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:42.080
<v Speaker 5>confident and that be a part of your personality, which

0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:44.840
<v Speaker 5>doesn't mean there's these other things that you know aren't

0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:48.000
<v Speaker 5>there as well. But you shouldn't have to be like

0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:52.000
<v Speaker 5>me to make it, you know, you shouldn't have to

0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:55.320
<v Speaker 5>have that kind of personality as a woman to to

0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:59.680
<v Speaker 5>have the opportunity or the access or mentorship or apprenticeships.

0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:02.200
<v Speaker 5>And so that's you know, when I realized that. That's

0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:04.679
<v Speaker 5>when I because I had been looking at women saying, well,

0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:06.359
<v Speaker 5>what do you mean just do it? You know, like,

0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:08.720
<v Speaker 5>what do you mean just later for them? You know,

0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:11.760
<v Speaker 5>like something discourage you, that should give you more impetus

0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:14.600
<v Speaker 5>to you know, And then I realized, you know, they

0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:17.439
<v Speaker 5>have a nervous breakdowns and shit, you know, like so

0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:20.280
<v Speaker 5>I had to look at it differently.

0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:21.440
<v Speaker 6>Because everybody doesn't have a foundation.

0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:24.520
<v Speaker 7>Because you still had some type of foundation to let

0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:26.720
<v Speaker 7>you know that that is the way to think, and

0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:28.880
<v Speaker 7>these women didn't have that, so.

0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:31.720
<v Speaker 5>And they don't need to. That's the whole thing. We're

0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:34.159
<v Speaker 5>all different. You know, we don't have to be I

0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:36.679
<v Speaker 5>was nothing around nothing but men playing, you know, for

0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:39.760
<v Speaker 5>a long time, and so I ended up kind of

0:20:39.760 --> 0:20:41.840
<v Speaker 5>acting like them, you know, and not be you know,

0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:45.879
<v Speaker 5>having a problem being around man all the time. So

0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:50.000
<v Speaker 5>I think that, you know, we should celebrate our differences.

0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:54.320
<v Speaker 5>And what does a woman's aesthetic sound like in the music?

0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:57.520
<v Speaker 5>You know, I think that's the question we should start

0:20:57.560 --> 0:20:58.080
<v Speaker 5>to ask.

0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:07.000
<v Speaker 3>I don't think I've ever went public on record with

0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:13.720
<v Speaker 3>In high school, I once had a masterclass kind of

0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:20.399
<v Speaker 3>session with a well known patriarch of jazz music.

0:21:20.960 --> 0:21:22.280
<v Speaker 4>I guess you could say he was a.

0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:27.440
<v Speaker 3>Total dick, And you know, that's actually where I was

0:21:27.480 --> 0:21:30.600
<v Speaker 3>leaning towards it. Like especially, there's a there's a generation

0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:35.919
<v Speaker 3>of cats who were sort of in the game in

0:21:35.960 --> 0:21:39.199
<v Speaker 3>the fifties and the sixties and the seventies, who you know,

0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:42.119
<v Speaker 3>don't mince words at all. They don't suffer any fools.

0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:45.240
<v Speaker 3>They're very blatant and honest or whatever. And this guy

0:21:45.359 --> 0:21:47.800
<v Speaker 3>just tore me up, man like everything. I didn't even

0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:49.679
<v Speaker 3>get on the set, and he just looked at the

0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:52.840
<v Speaker 3>loud shirt I was wearing, look at my hair. It's like,

0:21:52.920 --> 0:21:55.919
<v Speaker 3>oh see, I wouldn't hire you because your hair is

0:21:55.960 --> 0:21:58.040
<v Speaker 3>just like a girl's right now, you know, with that

0:21:58.080 --> 0:21:59.879
<v Speaker 3>with them snakes in your hair or whatever, and like

0:21:59.880 --> 0:22:04.399
<v Speaker 3>he was just going in and I remember like after

0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:11.280
<v Speaker 3>that day, that day, I like distinctively remember like I'm

0:22:11.280 --> 0:22:13.480
<v Speaker 3>not going the young lion route because you know, I

0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:16.960
<v Speaker 3>went to school with Christian McBride and Joey at Performing

0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:20.320
<v Speaker 3>Arts High School, and so I was on that that

0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:23.600
<v Speaker 3>sort of track every day trying to keep up with

0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:26.199
<v Speaker 3>those two and become a young lion, like, you know,

0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:30.560
<v Speaker 3>because all those cats in Philly were just like even

0:22:30.560 --> 0:22:33.520
<v Speaker 3>in high school, like doing sessions and what I you know,

0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:35.040
<v Speaker 3>I had the opposite reaction.

0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:38.360
<v Speaker 4>I actually that kind of like just got in my.

0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:41.800
<v Speaker 3>Head and you know, maybe like a year later, that's

0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:44.200
<v Speaker 3>when I decided, Okay, I'm gonna go to the roots

0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:48.280
<v Speaker 3>route because you know, he told me that I don't

0:22:48.280 --> 0:22:53.159
<v Speaker 3>look like a serious jazz cat, and you know it's

0:22:53.240 --> 0:22:56.879
<v Speaker 3>I'm I'm I'm glad you can buy him, right.

0:22:59.000 --> 0:23:00.119
<v Speaker 5>I love to say, where was you?

0:23:02.359 --> 0:23:02.520
<v Speaker 7>No?

0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:03.280
<v Speaker 4>No this this?

0:23:03.840 --> 0:23:07.560
<v Speaker 3>You know, this guy's a legacy god in the world

0:23:07.600 --> 0:23:10.560
<v Speaker 3>of jazz right now, you know, no longer with us, but.

0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:12.760
<v Speaker 5>You don't want to you don't want to name his name.

0:23:13.880 --> 0:23:17.280
<v Speaker 4>You know, hey, dogs Marcellus, I'll just let it out.

0:23:21.480 --> 0:23:25.280
<v Speaker 5>Well, I just mean, you know, he was, you know,

0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:28.520
<v Speaker 5>very kind to me. Actually he coached us once.

0:23:28.560 --> 0:23:30.560
<v Speaker 4>But I feel like you're a disarming person.

0:23:30.600 --> 0:23:32.119
<v Speaker 3>I feel like at the age of ten, you were

0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:36.439
<v Speaker 3>very disarming with anyone that you met, you know, that

0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:37.239
<v Speaker 3>would encourage you.

0:23:37.960 --> 0:23:40.240
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, and I think that that's helped, you know, with

0:23:40.320 --> 0:23:42.280
<v Speaker 5>the gender equity work now, because I'll get a lot

0:23:42.280 --> 0:23:45.359
<v Speaker 5>of older musicians calling me saying, you know, I guess

0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:47.440
<v Speaker 5>I've been an old fart or you know, thanks for

0:23:47.480 --> 0:23:51.800
<v Speaker 5>pointing this out. But you know, the bottom line is

0:23:52.080 --> 0:23:54.639
<v Speaker 5>he shouldn't have to be that, and people should recognize

0:23:54.640 --> 0:23:56.480
<v Speaker 5>what they're doing. And there are a lot of older

0:23:56.560 --> 0:24:01.760
<v Speaker 5>musicians that basically bought into this, you know, patriarchy and

0:24:01.760 --> 0:24:05.720
<v Speaker 5>brought brought into the hyper masculinity. And what I'm finding

0:24:05.800 --> 0:24:08.960
<v Speaker 5>is there's a lot of young musicians from teaching at Berkeley,

0:24:09.400 --> 0:24:12.119
<v Speaker 5>a lot of young male musicians that aren't digging the

0:24:12.200 --> 0:24:15.760
<v Speaker 5>hyper masculinity. So they actually come to our institute because

0:24:15.760 --> 0:24:18.480
<v Speaker 5>some people get it twisted and think that our institute

0:24:18.560 --> 0:24:21.840
<v Speaker 5>is for women musicians or non binary musicians. It's a

0:24:21.880 --> 0:24:25.560
<v Speaker 5>space that they can come and make mistakes and learn

0:24:25.600 --> 0:24:30.000
<v Speaker 5>the music without having their guard up. But we have

0:24:30.040 --> 0:24:33.520
<v Speaker 5>about fifty percent young men in our institute as well,

0:24:33.560 --> 0:24:37.679
<v Speaker 5>because they're rejecting the hyper masculinity in jazz as well.

0:24:37.920 --> 0:24:40.360
<v Speaker 5>And I think that we're really seeing a turning point

0:24:40.840 --> 0:24:44.320
<v Speaker 5>right now. It's starting to really shift, and I think

0:24:44.320 --> 0:24:47.199
<v Speaker 5>that the music needs that for it to live up

0:24:47.240 --> 0:24:48.400
<v Speaker 5>to its full potential.

0:24:48.640 --> 0:24:50.520
<v Speaker 7>So let me ask you, as a professor, then this

0:24:50.600 --> 0:24:54.800
<v Speaker 7>is about the patriarchy, because how do you since it

0:24:54.880 --> 0:24:58.479
<v Speaker 7>was an art form built on that, doesn't it come

0:24:58.520 --> 0:25:00.280
<v Speaker 7>to a certain point where you're at an impact ask

0:25:00.520 --> 0:25:04.400
<v Speaker 7>and explaining and you know, because I feel like we're

0:25:04.400 --> 0:25:06.879
<v Speaker 7>in this point too of sometimes either that's what it

0:25:06.920 --> 0:25:09.399
<v Speaker 7>was and we're trying to change it, or how do

0:25:09.440 --> 0:25:14.119
<v Speaker 7>we make that still legendary even though that was a problem,

0:25:14.359 --> 0:25:15.320
<v Speaker 7>Like how do we keep that?

0:25:16.040 --> 0:25:18.800
<v Speaker 5>You know, the patriarchy was patriarchy was never good. It

0:25:18.840 --> 0:25:22.200
<v Speaker 5>wasn't good for anybody, right It's white, white male patriarchy

0:25:22.320 --> 0:25:27.119
<v Speaker 5>to be specific. But you know, I think that the

0:25:27.240 --> 0:25:31.960
<v Speaker 5>oppressed learned how to oppress without trying. It's just, you know,

0:25:32.000 --> 0:25:35.480
<v Speaker 5>that's what happens. And I felt I feel like this

0:25:35.640 --> 0:25:37.640
<v Speaker 5>was you know, this is just you know, my opinion,

0:25:38.000 --> 0:25:40.440
<v Speaker 5>but I feel like jazz was a space for black

0:25:40.480 --> 0:25:44.280
<v Speaker 5>men to uh, you know, really feel freedom, right black

0:25:44.320 --> 0:25:48.400
<v Speaker 5>men exactly, you know, because I mean, well you go back,

0:25:48.400 --> 0:25:50.520
<v Speaker 5>you know, I've talked to Angela Davis about this and

0:25:51.680 --> 0:25:55.720
<v Speaker 5>different people, because when slavery ended, you know, black people

0:25:55.720 --> 0:25:59.320
<v Speaker 5>couldn't travel, right, they you couldn't go anywhere. And then

0:25:59.359 --> 0:26:02.520
<v Speaker 5>when slavery ended and there was a little bit of freedom,

0:26:02.560 --> 0:26:04.840
<v Speaker 5>the first one I think that people took advantage of

0:26:05.320 --> 0:26:08.840
<v Speaker 5>was being able to move, you know, being able to

0:26:08.480 --> 0:26:11.720
<v Speaker 5>to go to another town and you know, whether you're

0:26:11.720 --> 0:26:13.480
<v Speaker 5>playing on the street or in a juke joint or

0:26:13.480 --> 0:26:16.080
<v Speaker 5>wherever you could bring your guitar and you could. But

0:26:16.119 --> 0:26:21.320
<v Speaker 5>it wasn't safe still for women to do that, okay, okay, okay,

0:26:21.480 --> 0:26:26.520
<v Speaker 5>And these places were not places respectable women should women

0:26:26.560 --> 0:26:27.600
<v Speaker 5>should be in.

0:26:27.760 --> 0:26:30.400
<v Speaker 6>But they were there enjoying the music though.

0:26:30.280 --> 0:26:38.040
<v Speaker 5>They Yeah, but not all women, you know, brothels and

0:26:38.040 --> 0:26:41.880
<v Speaker 5>the music was in these places. So yeah, so it

0:26:41.920 --> 0:26:46.560
<v Speaker 5>was that's what the music kind of where it was birthed, right,

0:26:47.080 --> 0:26:50.399
<v Speaker 5>So it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't spaces necessarily for

0:26:50.480 --> 0:26:56.359
<v Speaker 5>women to discover their artistic uh you know, the discover

0:26:56.520 --> 0:26:59.560
<v Speaker 5>that they could actually do this. So they were always

0:26:59.600 --> 0:27:02.640
<v Speaker 5>off to the side in the house, in the church wherever,

0:27:02.760 --> 0:27:05.160
<v Speaker 5>you know, and of course playing piano. And that's why

0:27:05.200 --> 0:27:07.520
<v Speaker 5>I think that's so acceptable. You know, women always play

0:27:07.560 --> 0:27:09.280
<v Speaker 5>piano in the house in the church.

0:27:09.359 --> 0:27:09.520
<v Speaker 4>Right.

0:27:10.680 --> 0:27:14.600
<v Speaker 5>So then when women started traveling and getting into you know,

0:27:14.720 --> 0:27:18.080
<v Speaker 5>music and the blues, a lot of it was as singers, right,

0:27:18.119 --> 0:27:21.479
<v Speaker 5>as vocalist. Then you have like you know, Bessie Smith

0:27:21.600 --> 0:27:25.520
<v Speaker 5>and Mamie Smith and you know, some of the first

0:27:25.560 --> 0:27:34.600
<v Speaker 5>blues women my Rainy, but they became also like sexualized,

0:27:34.800 --> 0:27:38.080
<v Speaker 5>and they had you know, they were entertainers. You know,

0:27:38.080 --> 0:27:43.280
<v Speaker 5>it wasn't necessarily as considered serious work. Musicians were doing

0:27:43.320 --> 0:27:47.080
<v Speaker 5>the serious. You know. It was like, let's commodify this.

0:27:47.800 --> 0:27:50.640
<v Speaker 5>We can commodify this, you know, woman standing up front

0:27:50.680 --> 0:27:53.560
<v Speaker 5>singing the blues more than we can commodify the dude

0:27:53.560 --> 0:27:56.600
<v Speaker 5>with the guitar kind of singing the blues. So those

0:27:56.640 --> 0:28:00.280
<v Speaker 5>blues singers, the women, they sold more records, you know,

0:28:01.080 --> 0:28:04.280
<v Speaker 5>but Bessie Smith was selling yeah. So my point is

0:28:04.320 --> 0:28:07.880
<v Speaker 5>it started off like that, and you know then later

0:28:07.920 --> 0:28:10.639
<v Speaker 5>of course, in the forties when the war happened, all

0:28:10.680 --> 0:28:14.480
<v Speaker 5>the women emerged playing because so many men were gone.

0:28:15.640 --> 0:28:18.520
<v Speaker 5>What blows my mind is that when they came back

0:28:19.200 --> 0:28:23.560
<v Speaker 5>from the war, it seemed like the women disappeared, you know,

0:28:23.680 --> 0:28:26.760
<v Speaker 5>it came back to the you know, those practices, and

0:28:26.800 --> 0:28:29.520
<v Speaker 5>none of this really you know, surprises me. Like when

0:28:29.520 --> 0:28:32.760
<v Speaker 5>I look up, I was ignorant to the story of

0:28:32.840 --> 0:28:36.240
<v Speaker 5>Liberia and I just kind of found out about that

0:28:36.600 --> 0:28:41.640
<v Speaker 5>the return. Yeah. Yeah. And like when I saw some

0:28:41.680 --> 0:28:46.560
<v Speaker 5>footage of all the black people with the top hats

0:28:46.600 --> 0:28:50.680
<v Speaker 5>and looking trying to look British and then colonizing basically

0:28:50.680 --> 0:28:54.240
<v Speaker 5>the Africans, I'm like, well, why would I expect anything

0:28:54.320 --> 0:28:57.080
<v Speaker 5>different in jazz? I mean, you know what I mean,

0:28:57.160 --> 0:28:59.360
<v Speaker 5>it's kind of we're in music. You know, it's like

0:29:00.080 --> 0:29:04.680
<v Speaker 5>you're oppressed. You just like that, you take that nature, yeah, exactly,

0:29:04.720 --> 0:29:07.120
<v Speaker 5>without even knowing it's wrong sometimes.

0:29:08.240 --> 0:29:11.320
<v Speaker 4>So do you feel like the age.

0:29:12.400 --> 0:29:18.600
<v Speaker 3>Of the abusive, like and where we are now, like

0:29:18.720 --> 0:29:24.240
<v Speaker 3>hip hop is is changing where you know, there's a

0:29:25.760 --> 0:29:30.120
<v Speaker 3>sort of like a slow seed change of a lot

0:29:30.160 --> 0:29:34.800
<v Speaker 3>of toxic attitudes that were long associated with hip hop.

0:29:35.600 --> 0:29:37.560
<v Speaker 3>You know, we're now just starting to see the seeds

0:29:37.600 --> 0:29:40.080
<v Speaker 3>of it growing, and you know, I will will assume

0:29:40.120 --> 0:29:43.400
<v Speaker 3>that if it's still a thing in the fifties and sixties,

0:29:43.520 --> 0:29:47.760
<v Speaker 3>twenty fifties, twenty sixty, that we'll see a total turnaround.

0:29:47.800 --> 0:29:51.480
<v Speaker 3>But like kind of the the age of the abusive

0:29:52.520 --> 0:29:54.160
<v Speaker 3>actor and Whiplash.

0:29:54.120 --> 0:29:55.560
<v Speaker 4>Oh whipla J K.

0:29:55.680 --> 0:29:59.760
<v Speaker 3>Simmons, How abusive he was?

0:30:00.120 --> 0:30:03.880
<v Speaker 4>Whiplash? When you see Matt it was? Was that to you?

0:30:04.920 --> 0:30:05.560
<v Speaker 4>Was it triggering?

0:30:06.400 --> 0:30:08.880
<v Speaker 5>Yeah? I didn't see Whiplash, you know what.

0:30:09.880 --> 0:30:13.520
<v Speaker 3>Everyone when Whiplash came out, Literally everyone asked me about it.

0:30:14.560 --> 0:30:17.520
<v Speaker 5>People one about the drummer too, right, the one that

0:30:17.640 --> 0:30:18.440
<v Speaker 5>was lost his hearing.

0:30:18.560 --> 0:30:22.920
<v Speaker 3>I didn't see that was the one with your boy.

0:30:23.280 --> 0:30:26.320
<v Speaker 4>Uh about to say Freddie Mercury.

0:30:25.960 --> 0:30:27.840
<v Speaker 5>Uh, yeah, but I saw that.

0:30:29.080 --> 0:30:31.440
<v Speaker 4>The sound of metal, that's the name of that movie,

0:30:31.440 --> 0:30:32.640
<v Speaker 4>is amazing. That is great.

0:30:32.840 --> 0:30:35.240
<v Speaker 5>Yeah. I have so many thoughts, you know, about that,

0:30:35.840 --> 0:30:40.200
<v Speaker 5>But the first one that just came to my mind is, damn,

0:30:40.240 --> 0:30:43.920
<v Speaker 5>how do I say this politically correct? I just mean, like,

0:30:44.120 --> 0:30:49.720
<v Speaker 5>you know, I'm not so attracted to uh, you know,

0:30:50.360 --> 0:30:54.080
<v Speaker 5>white dude suffering from some drum lessons. It just feels

0:30:54.200 --> 0:30:54.960
<v Speaker 5>a little like.

0:30:55.000 --> 0:30:58.080
<v Speaker 4>This goddamn from the Book of.

0:31:01.360 --> 0:31:02.680
<v Speaker 6>Trauma by trauma.

0:31:02.760 --> 0:31:05.360
<v Speaker 5>I just mean, like, yeah, you know, so like for me,

0:31:05.720 --> 0:31:08.520
<v Speaker 5>like there's a lot more suffering that I'm gonna focus

0:31:08.560 --> 0:31:11.440
<v Speaker 5>on if I spend any part of my days dealing

0:31:11.480 --> 0:31:13.920
<v Speaker 5>with that. I'm glad he made a movie and the

0:31:14.000 --> 0:31:16.760
<v Speaker 5>drums are in it and that people liked it. But

0:31:18.040 --> 0:31:20.800
<v Speaker 5>you know, he could walk away probably a lot easier

0:31:20.840 --> 0:31:24.920
<v Speaker 5>than you know, somebody else. And he actually, if you know, historically,

0:31:25.920 --> 0:31:29.360
<v Speaker 5>he has all the tools to you know, fight back

0:31:29.360 --> 0:31:31.840
<v Speaker 5>a little more than some of us. So I don't know,

0:31:32.800 --> 0:31:37.680
<v Speaker 5>but anyway, uh, just as far as that whole method

0:31:37.720 --> 0:31:41.160
<v Speaker 5>of teaching, I mean, yeah, this this of course, like

0:31:41.200 --> 0:31:44.840
<v Speaker 5>I had like a well known drummer who's passed away

0:31:44.880 --> 0:31:46.800
<v Speaker 5>and who was my teacher, and he threw a book

0:31:46.840 --> 0:31:50.680
<v Speaker 5>at me once, but he said, you know, he was

0:31:50.720 --> 0:31:54.760
<v Speaker 5>frustrated with his career and he quit teaching right after that.

0:31:54.840 --> 0:31:57.400
<v Speaker 5>He was teaching at Berkeley, and he said, you're playing

0:31:57.400 --> 0:31:58.880
<v Speaker 5>my ship. You're not supposed to play my ship.

0:31:58.960 --> 0:32:03.240
<v Speaker 7>And then he that yeah, you know, because I was

0:32:03.280 --> 0:32:05.000
<v Speaker 7>just thinking that's got to be something for all these.

0:32:09.080 --> 0:32:12.400
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I mean it's okay because I saw him, and

0:32:12.480 --> 0:32:14.880
<v Speaker 5>we you know, I had a beautiful time hanging out before,

0:32:15.040 --> 0:32:17.080
<v Speaker 5>you know, shortly before he passed, and he was living

0:32:17.080 --> 0:32:20.920
<v Speaker 5>in Europe and it was Keith Copeland. Uh, you know,

0:32:21.040 --> 0:32:25.160
<v Speaker 5>so it's like I didn't even I loved him, and

0:32:25.280 --> 0:32:28.080
<v Speaker 5>I felt like he loved me, and I never I

0:32:28.080 --> 0:32:29.880
<v Speaker 5>think my parents were a little more upset about it

0:32:29.920 --> 0:32:33.320
<v Speaker 5>than me, you know, because I just I shrugged it off,

0:32:33.400 --> 0:32:35.960
<v Speaker 5>you know, that was I think that's been my way.

0:32:36.040 --> 0:32:38.120
<v Speaker 5>And that's another thing I just wanted to point out,

0:32:38.160 --> 0:32:43.240
<v Speaker 5>since we're talking about it, everything that's happened, like anything negative,

0:32:43.680 --> 0:32:45.720
<v Speaker 5>I've had to shrug it off. For me, I had

0:32:45.720 --> 0:32:47.760
<v Speaker 5>to just act like it didn't happen, to keep moving

0:32:48.520 --> 0:32:50.360
<v Speaker 5>and you know, beating in my brain double that's not

0:32:50.400 --> 0:32:52.800
<v Speaker 5>gonna stop me, you know what I mean. Like, and

0:32:52.840 --> 0:32:54.720
<v Speaker 5>so then you look back and it's hard, you know,

0:32:54.760 --> 0:32:58.080
<v Speaker 5>you start thinking, like when I started playing with Esperanza

0:32:58.160 --> 0:33:02.640
<v Speaker 5>and Jerry Allen, they started talking about, Oh, this feels good,

0:33:02.720 --> 0:33:05.080
<v Speaker 5>like this is a space where man, I can let

0:33:05.080 --> 0:33:07.719
<v Speaker 5>my hair down. I don't have, you know, I'm not

0:33:08.360 --> 0:33:11.160
<v Speaker 5>what's the word. Uh, you know, there's a like a

0:33:11.160 --> 0:33:15.719
<v Speaker 5>protective layer face armor. Well, I was trying to think

0:33:15.720 --> 0:33:17.320
<v Speaker 5>of how Es Browns will put it and she just

0:33:17.360 --> 0:33:19.800
<v Speaker 5>started talking about an armor that she was able to

0:33:19.880 --> 0:33:22.239
<v Speaker 5>let go of, and then Jerry was agreeing, and I

0:33:22.320 --> 0:33:26.240
<v Speaker 5>was only once sit there saying hmmm, like really, oh okay, cool, Well,

0:33:26.520 --> 0:33:30.160
<v Speaker 5>whatever works for you. It took me years after that

0:33:30.360 --> 0:33:35.120
<v Speaker 5>to understand, oh, I have those issues too, but I

0:33:35.240 --> 0:33:39.440
<v Speaker 5>just sweep him under the rug so well that I

0:33:39.440 --> 0:33:41.600
<v Speaker 5>don't deal with it because it's just it's not useful

0:33:41.640 --> 0:33:41.880
<v Speaker 5>to me.

0:33:42.600 --> 0:33:44.560
<v Speaker 6>I thought you were like the most free individual I

0:33:44.600 --> 0:33:45.080
<v Speaker 6>ever met.

0:33:45.160 --> 0:33:45.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:33:45.400 --> 0:33:48.400
<v Speaker 4>I was about to say, this is very unusual. Yeah,

0:33:48.720 --> 0:33:49.200
<v Speaker 4>what do you mean.

0:33:49.600 --> 0:33:53.560
<v Speaker 3>No, I'm just saying, so many people plant seeds, and

0:33:53.800 --> 0:33:55.640
<v Speaker 3>you know, they plant seeds of doubt in your head

0:33:55.680 --> 0:33:57.400
<v Speaker 3>and you live with it. And I just love the

0:33:57.440 --> 0:34:01.520
<v Speaker 3>fact that that wasn't even like you just duct it

0:34:01.680 --> 0:34:02.920
<v Speaker 3>like a boxer.

0:34:02.800 --> 0:34:05.920
<v Speaker 6>But it goes somewhere, exactly, it goes somewhere. And that's

0:34:05.920 --> 0:34:06.880
<v Speaker 6>what she's saying. That's why I know.

0:34:06.960 --> 0:34:09.080
<v Speaker 7>That's why I take back what I said, because I'm like, oh,

0:34:09.120 --> 0:34:10.560
<v Speaker 7>she puts it somewhere. It ain't.

0:34:10.800 --> 0:34:11.040
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

0:34:11.400 --> 0:34:13.760
<v Speaker 5>Well, I mean I wasn't conscious of it though, because

0:34:13.920 --> 0:34:15.680
<v Speaker 5>you know, you know what I'm saying, and so that's

0:34:15.719 --> 0:34:18.080
<v Speaker 5>just a layer. That is the way I see it.

0:34:18.080 --> 0:34:20.560
<v Speaker 5>It's just hard enough to learn how to play music,

0:34:20.840 --> 0:34:23.440
<v Speaker 5>any kind of music, but jazz. I mean, it's really

0:34:23.560 --> 0:34:28.520
<v Speaker 5>fucking hard, right, So who wants that extra burden? Who

0:34:28.560 --> 0:34:32.480
<v Speaker 5>wants that extra layer of Oh? And I have to

0:34:32.480 --> 0:34:35.239
<v Speaker 5>deal with this, you know, like somebody hit on you know,

0:34:35.239 --> 0:34:36.759
<v Speaker 5>I don't. I don't get hit on a whole lot,

0:34:37.080 --> 0:34:40.200
<v Speaker 5>you know, without wanting to. But you know, if a

0:34:40.239 --> 0:34:43.440
<v Speaker 5>band leader hit on me in the middle of a

0:34:43.440 --> 0:34:47.759
<v Speaker 5>rehearsal or you know, I would just be like, oh man, really, well,

0:34:47.920 --> 0:34:50.320
<v Speaker 5>you know, fantasies are good, Let's go back to playing,

0:34:50.440 --> 0:34:55.240
<v Speaker 5>you know whatever. And I never thought for one minute

0:34:55.760 --> 0:34:57.920
<v Speaker 5>I'm thinking of somebody, and I'll say it, it was

0:34:57.960 --> 0:35:02.000
<v Speaker 5>Stan Getz. And I never thought for a minute that

0:35:02.040 --> 0:35:04.759
<v Speaker 5>it meant that I would lose the gig. And then

0:35:04.800 --> 0:35:07.600
<v Speaker 5>when I start talking to these young people, all of

0:35:07.600 --> 0:35:09.000
<v Speaker 5>that is going through their brain.

0:35:09.239 --> 0:35:12.440
<v Speaker 6>Yes, yes, all of us going through their brain. And

0:35:12.440 --> 0:35:13.799
<v Speaker 6>they're not standing for it.

0:35:14.719 --> 0:35:17.719
<v Speaker 5>Well no, but now, but I'm talking about five ten

0:35:17.800 --> 0:35:18.279
<v Speaker 5>years ago.

0:35:18.320 --> 0:35:19.560
<v Speaker 6>You know, we just had to suck it out. You

0:35:19.600 --> 0:35:20.759
<v Speaker 6>just suck you just yeah, you just.

0:35:21.000 --> 0:35:23.640
<v Speaker 5>They were wondering, well what do I do? Like, you know,

0:35:24.440 --> 0:35:26.560
<v Speaker 5>am I going to lose the gig or you know how,

0:35:27.120 --> 0:35:30.120
<v Speaker 5>and they start thinking. I realized, Wow, that never crossed

0:35:30.160 --> 0:35:31.839
<v Speaker 5>my mind. I told him, you know how to let's

0:35:31.840 --> 0:35:35.200
<v Speaker 5>go with rehearse, you know, and it never crossed my

0:35:35.239 --> 0:35:36.719
<v Speaker 5>mind that he would hold it against me.

0:35:37.600 --> 0:35:40.560
<v Speaker 7>So that means technically, you've never been disappointed by your

0:35:40.560 --> 0:35:42.319
<v Speaker 7>heroes in that way.

0:35:42.600 --> 0:35:47.399
<v Speaker 5>Oh maybe not in that way, you know, not. I mean,

0:35:47.600 --> 0:35:51.560
<v Speaker 5>you know, I'm sorry, I just had a flashback. But

0:35:51.719 --> 0:35:53.680
<v Speaker 5>even that, you know, like if somebody, you know, you,

0:35:54.320 --> 0:35:56.160
<v Speaker 5>you know, somebody's over your house, you come out and

0:35:56.160 --> 0:35:58.959
<v Speaker 5>they're like sitting there naked or something, you know, even

0:35:59.000 --> 0:36:01.080
<v Speaker 5>that would make me laugh, you know.

0:36:01.280 --> 0:36:02.080
<v Speaker 7>I know.

0:36:06.200 --> 0:36:08.120
<v Speaker 6>It depends on the legend. It could be real sad

0:36:08.120 --> 0:36:11.160
<v Speaker 6>though Terry. It could be like, damn, come on man.

0:36:12.960 --> 0:36:15.200
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, but you know, there's a lot of love, and

0:36:15.239 --> 0:36:22.160
<v Speaker 5>I think that black women have historically taken in consideration

0:36:22.640 --> 0:36:26.160
<v Speaker 5>all these things. And I'm like, as long as I

0:36:26.160 --> 0:36:29.920
<v Speaker 5>don't feel like, you know, you're about to physically harm me,

0:36:31.239 --> 0:36:33.960
<v Speaker 5>then I'm not really worried about it, you know. But

0:36:34.040 --> 0:36:37.200
<v Speaker 5>what I'm what I keep trying to say is you

0:36:37.200 --> 0:36:39.600
<v Speaker 5>shouldn't have to be that way. She shouldn't have to

0:36:39.640 --> 0:36:42.479
<v Speaker 5>go through the extra burden, and that's what I will

0:36:42.520 --> 0:36:45.000
<v Speaker 5>then take somebody down for. So I have to talk

0:36:45.080 --> 0:36:47.759
<v Speaker 5>myself off a ledge now all the time. But that's

0:36:47.760 --> 0:36:49.800
<v Speaker 5>for other people. For some of my students, I'm like,

0:36:49.840 --> 0:36:52.400
<v Speaker 5>they say what, and I'm like, trying to go to

0:36:52.480 --> 0:36:55.320
<v Speaker 5>the runt of the school and beat somebody down. I'm like, Okay,

0:36:55.320 --> 0:36:58.000
<v Speaker 5>we can't do that, right, you know, I got to, like,

0:36:58.080 --> 0:37:03.719
<v Speaker 5>now try to intelligently talk to this person or use language.

0:37:04.200 --> 0:37:09.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you know, Terry, I always wanted to know simply

0:37:09.480 --> 0:37:11.840
<v Speaker 3>because I'm I'm I'm so drenched in hip hop.

0:37:12.760 --> 0:37:14.160
<v Speaker 4>I have to be a shape shifter.

0:37:15.840 --> 0:37:19.920
<v Speaker 3>In other words, any track I hear, my first question

0:37:20.000 --> 0:37:25.720
<v Speaker 3>I'm asking is how would DJ Premier program this, or

0:37:25.760 --> 0:37:27.480
<v Speaker 3>how would see FERRONI drum on this?

0:37:28.200 --> 0:37:32.320
<v Speaker 4>Or how would Tony Williams play this or whatever?

0:37:33.520 --> 0:37:37.320
<v Speaker 3>So oftentimes, you know, I'm shape shifting kind of in

0:37:37.400 --> 0:37:41.200
<v Speaker 3>the name of being a human sampler. But when you're

0:37:41.239 --> 0:37:46.480
<v Speaker 3>starting to drum, who is the who's the drummer? Who

0:37:46.640 --> 0:37:50.680
<v Speaker 3>sound that you were most attracted to when you first

0:37:50.719 --> 0:37:55.239
<v Speaker 3>started based on you know, you left Arcinio a thing

0:37:55.280 --> 0:37:58.480
<v Speaker 3>in eighty nine, so based on your simple work, always

0:37:58.520 --> 0:38:00.799
<v Speaker 3>thought that Tony Williams might have been in your north Star.

0:38:01.280 --> 0:38:06.120
<v Speaker 3>But you know, for you, who were your three gods

0:38:06.160 --> 0:38:09.000
<v Speaker 3>of drumming that you had in your mind when you

0:38:09.000 --> 0:38:09.600
<v Speaker 3>were drumming.

0:38:10.600 --> 0:38:14.880
<v Speaker 5>Well, at the end of the day, it became well,

0:38:15.000 --> 0:38:18.960
<v Speaker 5>let me see, when I was eighteen seventeen, it was

0:38:19.080 --> 0:38:22.960
<v Speaker 5>Jack de Jeannette, and he became my biggest mentor. I

0:38:23.200 --> 0:38:29.480
<v Speaker 5>purposely stayed away from trying to mimic Tony Williams and

0:38:29.600 --> 0:38:32.879
<v Speaker 5>Elsen Jones to a degree too, because their styles are

0:38:32.920 --> 0:38:36.399
<v Speaker 5>so individual that if I hear somebody playing like them,

0:38:36.800 --> 0:38:40.520
<v Speaker 5>it sounds like a caricature of them more than anybody else,

0:38:40.600 --> 0:38:42.480
<v Speaker 5>I think, because their styles are so strong.

0:38:42.800 --> 0:38:46.680
<v Speaker 3>So even when you're playing with Herbie or Wayne or Combo,

0:38:47.239 --> 0:38:49.160
<v Speaker 3>it's the temptation to not.

0:38:50.680 --> 0:38:52.080
<v Speaker 4>Go there doesn't.

0:38:51.800 --> 0:38:56.800
<v Speaker 5>Hit you at all, no, it Unfortunately, when I played

0:38:56.800 --> 0:38:59.400
<v Speaker 5>with Herbie, especially in the earlier years, well, see the

0:38:59.440 --> 0:39:01.200
<v Speaker 5>thing is, you know I played in six or seven

0:39:01.200 --> 0:39:05.840
<v Speaker 5>different bands of Herbie's, so you know he's supporting, yeah, exactly.

0:39:05.920 --> 0:39:08.920
<v Speaker 5>So it was the first, the first long, you know,

0:39:09.280 --> 0:39:11.520
<v Speaker 5>term gig I had with him. We were supporting this

0:39:11.560 --> 0:39:13.520
<v Speaker 5>is the drum, and then I had to play these

0:39:13.520 --> 0:39:17.160
<v Speaker 5>grooves like with uh, with computers, you know, which I

0:39:17.200 --> 0:39:17.960
<v Speaker 5>had never done.

0:39:18.560 --> 0:39:18.680
<v Speaker 7>Uh.

0:39:19.520 --> 0:39:23.720
<v Speaker 5>And then uh, you know, Trio Quartet and then Gersha

0:39:23.880 --> 0:39:28.400
<v Speaker 5>was well just those were more acoustic. But then the

0:39:28.400 --> 0:39:31.520
<v Speaker 5>The Future of the Future, which you know, was more

0:39:32.800 --> 0:39:34.799
<v Speaker 5>It had you know, some hybrid hip hop stuff in

0:39:34.840 --> 0:39:37.200
<v Speaker 5>there as well, but it was all, you know, mostly grooves.

0:39:38.560 --> 0:39:41.399
<v Speaker 5>So when I was playing straight ahead in the beginning, yeah,

0:39:41.600 --> 0:39:45.200
<v Speaker 5>Tony Williams would creep out because I realized whenever I

0:39:45.239 --> 0:39:47.920
<v Speaker 5>heard Herbie from all the records, it was mostly Tony

0:39:48.200 --> 0:39:50.920
<v Speaker 5>playing with him. So that is the sound, you know,

0:39:51.239 --> 0:39:55.520
<v Speaker 5>my spirit related to Hervey, which was interesting because he

0:39:55.719 --> 0:39:57.920
<v Speaker 5>told me that Jack Deson it was his favorite drummer

0:39:58.920 --> 0:40:02.919
<v Speaker 5>and that's like my guy, yeah yeah, back then, yeah,

0:40:03.000 --> 0:40:04.080
<v Speaker 5>and that's my guys.

0:40:03.920 --> 0:40:04.440
<v Speaker 4>So Tony.

0:40:05.400 --> 0:40:08.279
<v Speaker 3>So Jackie's net was Tony's sort of north starts as

0:40:08.320 --> 0:40:08.800
<v Speaker 3>far as.

0:40:08.719 --> 0:40:11.520
<v Speaker 5>No, no, no, I'm saying, Herbie told me. Herbie said that

0:40:11.520 --> 0:40:15.759
<v Speaker 5>that Jack was his favorite drama overt. Yeah, that's what

0:40:15.800 --> 0:40:19.359
<v Speaker 5>he told me. Wow, okay to play with this is

0:40:19.400 --> 0:40:22.680
<v Speaker 5>you know, after you know, many years after that plastic

0:40:22.719 --> 0:40:25.279
<v Speaker 5>Miles David Quintest so he if you notice, I mean

0:40:25.280 --> 0:40:27.840
<v Speaker 5>he hired jack On. You know, some of his records.

0:40:27.960 --> 0:40:30.799
<v Speaker 5>But anyway, so I thought, oh, this that's my guy.

0:40:30.920 --> 0:40:33.839
<v Speaker 5>So I'm good. You know, that's great, that's who that's

0:40:33.920 --> 0:40:37.960
<v Speaker 5>my north star. But then once I started playing all this,

0:40:38.080 --> 0:40:41.760
<v Speaker 5>Tony snuck in, you know, which is interesting just because

0:40:42.080 --> 0:40:44.400
<v Speaker 5>having heard him with Herbie all those years.

0:40:44.719 --> 0:40:47.000
<v Speaker 3>What is because a lot of the Jack stuff that

0:40:47.040 --> 0:40:50.280
<v Speaker 3>I heard was more like fusing, like his seventies fusion

0:40:50.320 --> 0:40:55.840
<v Speaker 3>work or whatever. How like for me, Tony is so

0:40:56.280 --> 0:41:00.920
<v Speaker 3>heavy on symbol work that you automatically and his ability

0:41:00.960 --> 0:41:04.080
<v Speaker 3>to stop time and just you know, for listeners today

0:41:04.120 --> 0:41:07.080
<v Speaker 3>that you know, I guess you can say that sort

0:41:07.120 --> 0:41:10.600
<v Speaker 3>of the way that Chris Dave's relationship with time, where

0:41:11.640 --> 0:41:15.120
<v Speaker 3>you know, it doesn't exist in his world, but it exists,

0:41:15.360 --> 0:41:18.799
<v Speaker 3>but it doesn't exist. Tony was sort of you know

0:41:18.880 --> 0:41:21.080
<v Speaker 3>that way straight ahead. But what do you think that

0:41:21.200 --> 0:41:23.200
<v Speaker 3>Jack's trademark.

0:41:22.800 --> 0:41:26.360
<v Speaker 5>Was, Well, I think I disagree a little bit about

0:41:26.400 --> 0:41:29.719
<v Speaker 5>Tony in the time existing and not existing because I

0:41:29.760 --> 0:41:37.120
<v Speaker 5>feel like, you know, Tony's beat was pretty, it was beautiful.

0:41:37.400 --> 0:41:40.799
<v Speaker 5>It was so beautiful his time feel.

0:41:41.640 --> 0:41:44.279
<v Speaker 3>Oh no, he would say on rhythm, but do all

0:41:44.320 --> 0:41:46.359
<v Speaker 3>these counter rhythms that, yeah, but.

0:41:46.320 --> 0:41:48.759
<v Speaker 5>That's to me mathematics, you know what I mean, Like

0:41:48.800 --> 0:41:52.520
<v Speaker 5>the counter rhythms, it's polyrhythms. There's things that work within

0:41:52.600 --> 0:41:55.960
<v Speaker 5>the structure of a beat. And so what attracted me

0:41:56.000 --> 0:42:00.160
<v Speaker 5>to Jack was the opposite of that, you know, of

0:42:00.280 --> 0:42:05.440
<v Speaker 5>the time being elastic and like hear him on this

0:42:05.600 --> 0:42:09.799
<v Speaker 5>all it's slinky like a snake. You know, it's in

0:42:09.880 --> 0:42:12.680
<v Speaker 5>his touch. You know, I can tell Jack within a

0:42:12.760 --> 0:42:16.320
<v Speaker 5>second of hearing him, you know, on any recording, because

0:42:16.360 --> 0:42:19.080
<v Speaker 5>it's his touch. Any great drummer, you're right, it's the

0:42:19.160 --> 0:42:22.280
<v Speaker 5>rise symbol. You know, any great jazz drummer, their their

0:42:22.680 --> 0:42:28.040
<v Speaker 5>identity lives in their rise symbol. Now, some people like Tony,

0:42:28.239 --> 0:42:31.960
<v Speaker 5>like a lot of great drummers like Tony, like Art Blakey,

0:42:32.719 --> 0:42:37.280
<v Speaker 5>Max Rusch. Also part of their identity is what they've

0:42:37.400 --> 0:42:41.360
<v Speaker 5>you know, developed soloing, so their their licks. There are

0:42:41.400 --> 0:42:44.400
<v Speaker 5>things that are signature, right, So there are signature licks

0:42:44.719 --> 0:42:47.560
<v Speaker 5>that you can say that Art Blakey, or Tony Williams

0:42:47.719 --> 0:42:50.759
<v Speaker 5>or Philly Joe Jones. But with Jack it's not really

0:42:50.840 --> 0:42:53.799
<v Speaker 5>signature licks. There's no licks. It's like it's all more

0:42:53.920 --> 0:42:57.120
<v Speaker 5>organic and the same thing. All my favorite drummers, Roy Haynes,

0:42:57.800 --> 0:42:59.760
<v Speaker 5>it all begins and ends with Roy Haynes. He's the hippos.

0:42:59.840 --> 0:43:01.399
<v Speaker 5>Jaz I was. I was so glad.

0:43:01.480 --> 0:43:03.520
<v Speaker 7>She said that, oh God, my dad would be so glad.

0:43:03.520 --> 0:43:05.520
<v Speaker 7>She said that, I just want to say this real quick.

0:43:05.520 --> 0:43:07.359
<v Speaker 7>I'm sorry, I mean to interrupt y'all, but for some

0:43:07.400 --> 0:43:09.680
<v Speaker 7>of us, eighty nine is when you ended our Senio.

0:43:10.040 --> 0:43:12.239
<v Speaker 7>It's a whole generation of other folks that go from

0:43:12.239 --> 0:43:15.080
<v Speaker 7>my father who go little Terry that was Rory Haynes's

0:43:15.080 --> 0:43:17.440
<v Speaker 7>protag and all that. So it was just for me,

0:43:17.680 --> 0:43:19.600
<v Speaker 7>I'm continue on Terry Ipoplois.

0:43:19.719 --> 0:43:23.120
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, no, it's beautiful, you know, just a sidebar. His

0:43:23.200 --> 0:43:27.480
<v Speaker 5>son sent me a video last night of his granddaughter daughter,

0:43:27.840 --> 0:43:31.320
<v Speaker 5>which would be Roy's great granddaughter. They had been asking

0:43:31.360 --> 0:43:33.000
<v Speaker 5>if she had been asking for sticks, and he finally

0:43:33.000 --> 0:43:36.440
<v Speaker 5>about this little kid. She's three little kids set and

0:43:36.680 --> 0:43:38.879
<v Speaker 5>sticks and it was the first time you ever held

0:43:38.880 --> 0:43:41.680
<v Speaker 5>a pair of sticks. And she was like and she

0:43:41.840 --> 0:43:44.399
<v Speaker 5>ended and flipped the sticks and put him under her arm.

0:43:44.520 --> 0:43:47.640
<v Speaker 5>He was like, you're the first person I'm sending.

0:43:47.360 --> 0:43:51.000
<v Speaker 3>This to for our listeners that don't know. Roy Haynes

0:43:51.040 --> 0:43:57.680
<v Speaker 3>is probably the the elder statesman I think between him.

0:43:58.000 --> 0:44:01.920
<v Speaker 4>Roy's ninety seven or ninety eight, still playing, still playing

0:44:02.040 --> 0:44:09.200
<v Speaker 4>like forty something. Yes, that's crazy, like it's nothing you know, and.

0:44:10.280 --> 0:44:13.439
<v Speaker 3>You know and and with and his son Graham and

0:44:13.440 --> 0:44:15.800
<v Speaker 3>and whatever like literally.

0:44:16.120 --> 0:44:20.160
<v Speaker 7>Yes, just mentioned he taught my dad too. That's why

0:44:20.160 --> 0:44:22.400
<v Speaker 7>he's so important to him to geniuses.

0:44:23.239 --> 0:44:23.879
<v Speaker 5>Who's your dad?

0:44:24.239 --> 0:44:26.480
<v Speaker 7>His name is Ron Saint Clair. But my dad had

0:44:26.520 --> 0:44:28.360
<v Speaker 7>a nephew that he taught, named Dennis Davis.

0:44:28.360 --> 0:44:32.680
<v Speaker 5>So we're just a fan. Oh yes, yeah, dunnis to

0:44:32.760 --> 0:44:33.719
<v Speaker 5>play with Stevie.

0:44:33.480 --> 0:44:41.800
<v Speaker 4>Yes self slaying me. Were you part of the in

0:44:41.920 --> 0:44:42.480
<v Speaker 4>bass circle?

0:44:42.640 --> 0:44:45.439
<v Speaker 5>Yeah? I was there when Steve named it, like he said,

0:44:45.480 --> 0:44:47.799
<v Speaker 5>I came up with this thing, you know, macro dash

0:44:47.880 --> 0:44:52.440
<v Speaker 5>basic Array of structural extis. I was like, good luck,

0:44:52.680 --> 0:44:53.960
<v Speaker 5>let's see if that's going anyway.

0:44:54.800 --> 0:44:57.360
<v Speaker 4>I did I know BASE was an acronym.

0:44:57.480 --> 0:45:03.840
<v Speaker 5>What is it for macro ah Basic array of structural extemporizations.

0:45:06.320 --> 0:45:06.640
<v Speaker 4>Deep?

0:45:08.600 --> 0:45:11.239
<v Speaker 5>But yeah, we have a We did a record which

0:45:11.280 --> 0:45:14.000
<v Speaker 5>I think was really the beginning of M BASE that

0:45:14.160 --> 0:45:18.920
<v Speaker 5>never came out. It was for Gramma Vision. It was Graham,

0:45:19.280 --> 0:45:23.560
<v Speaker 5>the horn section was Graham, greg osby Steve and h

0:45:24.480 --> 0:45:27.319
<v Speaker 5>Whoman missed and it was four Robin you Banks and

0:45:27.360 --> 0:45:31.319
<v Speaker 5>then the rhythm section was Vernon Reed, Jerry Allen, Me

0:45:32.080 --> 0:45:34.120
<v Speaker 5>and Kevin Harris. Yeah.

0:45:34.160 --> 0:45:37.480
<v Speaker 3>Oh man, you just opened up a door because I

0:45:37.719 --> 0:45:41.360
<v Speaker 3>had a manager who was one of the top jazz

0:45:41.520 --> 0:45:48.200
<v Speaker 3>DJs at Temple RTI in Philadelphia, and you know, in

0:45:48.239 --> 0:45:52.200
<v Speaker 3>his mind, like m base was the future, which is

0:45:52.200 --> 0:45:54.400
<v Speaker 3>the reason why like a lot of MBASE, including like

0:45:54.480 --> 0:45:57.759
<v Speaker 3>Cassandra and everybody like was on our first view records.

0:45:58.239 --> 0:46:00.600
<v Speaker 3>Did you at the time when you're in this movement,

0:46:00.640 --> 0:46:03.360
<v Speaker 3>did you feel as though, like, Okay, we are the

0:46:03.400 --> 0:46:06.719
<v Speaker 3>new generation, we're the native tongues, We're gonna you know,

0:46:06.800 --> 0:46:09.920
<v Speaker 3>push forward. How much pushback at the time from like

0:46:10.120 --> 0:46:11.960
<v Speaker 3>jazz traditionalists were you getting?

0:46:13.080 --> 0:46:17.160
<v Speaker 5>H Well, you know when that started, Like I moved

0:46:17.239 --> 0:46:20.279
<v Speaker 5>shortly thereafter to La to do the Arsenial Hall. So

0:46:21.440 --> 0:46:24.480
<v Speaker 5>actually I was moving anyway, and then I got the

0:46:24.520 --> 0:46:26.680
<v Speaker 5>show and that just made my move have to happen.

0:46:26.680 --> 0:46:28.880
<v Speaker 5>In a week, I was out there looking for apartments.

0:46:28.880 --> 0:46:31.120
<v Speaker 5>I was staying with Patris Russian And.

0:46:31.400 --> 0:46:34.319
<v Speaker 4>What was the aficial process, Like, you just dropped a

0:46:34.360 --> 0:46:35.480
<v Speaker 4>lot in that one sentence.

0:46:35.520 --> 0:46:38.120
<v Speaker 6>You sure did. He has another former guest of Quest left.

0:46:37.960 --> 0:46:42.640
<v Speaker 5>Spree right, Yes, yeah, yeah, So I was playing with

0:46:42.680 --> 0:46:46.200
<v Speaker 5>Wayne Shorter at the time. So, and Diane Reeves was

0:46:46.200 --> 0:46:48.480
<v Speaker 5>my best friend. She lived in LA. I met her

0:46:48.560 --> 0:46:51.000
<v Speaker 5>at that same time when I Clarke Terry. So she

0:46:51.160 --> 0:46:53.640
<v Speaker 5>was nineteen and I was ten. We were both guessed

0:46:53.640 --> 0:46:55.360
<v Speaker 5>with Clark that time when I told you about the

0:46:55.360 --> 0:46:58.440
<v Speaker 5>Buddy Rich store. So when I went to LA and

0:46:58.719 --> 0:47:00.920
<v Speaker 5>you know, with hers, with Wayne we went to Japan,

0:47:01.000 --> 0:47:02.840
<v Speaker 5>I would just stop in LA and stay for a

0:47:02.880 --> 0:47:06.920
<v Speaker 5>while and stay with Diane and then in Patrise and

0:47:06.960 --> 0:47:10.200
<v Speaker 5>Patrise she was on joy Rider, you know, with us.

0:47:10.200 --> 0:47:12.640
<v Speaker 5>So it was around that time, and so the three

0:47:12.680 --> 0:47:16.040
<v Speaker 5>of them convinced me to move to LA. So this

0:47:16.239 --> 0:47:20.600
<v Speaker 5>was the end of eighty eight. So I went right

0:47:20.640 --> 0:47:24.880
<v Speaker 5>around Thanksgiving to LA and looked for an apartment. And

0:47:24.920 --> 0:47:28.960
<v Speaker 5>then somehow it was Nary, Michael Walden and Patrise maybe

0:47:28.960 --> 0:47:32.120
<v Speaker 5>one other person that recommended me for the Arsenio Hall show.

0:47:32.680 --> 0:47:34.520
<v Speaker 5>And so I went in and I just played a

0:47:34.560 --> 0:47:37.400
<v Speaker 5>couple of tunes with them and I got the gig.

0:47:37.600 --> 0:47:39.040
<v Speaker 5>But they were like, you got to be back here

0:47:39.080 --> 0:47:41.319
<v Speaker 5>next week we start taping, you know, we start next

0:47:41.360 --> 0:47:44.239
<v Speaker 5>week the day after New Year's Uh. So I had

0:47:44.239 --> 0:47:47.319
<v Speaker 5>a week to go home and pack up in Fort

0:47:47.360 --> 0:47:52.200
<v Speaker 5>Green and it was to Glendale, California. But yeah, I

0:47:52.440 --> 0:47:56.160
<v Speaker 5>stayed with Patrise while I was looking. So the audition

0:47:56.280 --> 0:47:59.080
<v Speaker 5>process wasn't very I don't even know how many drummers

0:47:59.120 --> 0:48:01.480
<v Speaker 5>they had they had audition.

0:48:01.840 --> 0:48:04.800
<v Speaker 4>Uh Sanders, okay, keep play funk, play jazz.

0:48:05.600 --> 0:48:08.719
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, and you know, Michael Wolf was there. It wasn't

0:48:08.880 --> 0:48:10.839
<v Speaker 5>it wasn't any heavy funk, you know what I mean.

0:48:10.840 --> 0:48:14.320
<v Speaker 5>It wasn't any Yeah, but it was a good, great experience,

0:48:14.360 --> 0:48:15.879
<v Speaker 5>you know, and I feel like it set me up,

0:48:15.920 --> 0:48:18.920
<v Speaker 5>you know, more for doing the Vibe TV show with

0:48:19.160 --> 0:48:24.080
<v Speaker 5>very filling games, and that was you know, more more

0:48:24.200 --> 0:48:26.880
<v Speaker 5>of of a band that could play with anybody. So

0:48:26.920 --> 0:48:29.719
<v Speaker 5>like we played with James Brown, we played with Aliyah,

0:48:29.760 --> 0:48:34.880
<v Speaker 5>we played with Destiny's Child, we played with uh, I

0:48:34.880 --> 0:48:37.680
<v Speaker 5>don't know, Rick, James, we played with you know, just

0:48:37.719 --> 0:48:39.960
<v Speaker 5>a lot of It was an amazing experience playing with

0:48:40.000 --> 0:48:42.480
<v Speaker 5>all those people, whereas the first one we didn't really

0:48:42.480 --> 0:48:45.360
<v Speaker 5>play with that many people that came on. But you

0:48:45.400 --> 0:48:51.480
<v Speaker 5>were saying something else I fell down. Uh. So what

0:48:51.560 --> 0:48:55.479
<v Speaker 5>happened was they were moving on. And when I look back,

0:48:55.560 --> 0:48:57.960
<v Speaker 5>and like when that record we made, everybody had to

0:48:57.960 --> 0:49:01.840
<v Speaker 5>bring in a song and Steve had made this like

0:49:01.920 --> 0:49:05.240
<v Speaker 5>kind of criteria for the music of it not being

0:49:05.280 --> 0:49:09.600
<v Speaker 5>straight ahead and having you know, rhythms or grooves kind

0:49:09.600 --> 0:49:13.520
<v Speaker 5>of from more modern because he was into James Brown,

0:49:13.880 --> 0:49:17.880
<v Speaker 5>but you know, more modern grooves but with harmony and

0:49:17.920 --> 0:49:21.360
<v Speaker 5>stuff moving like jazz but not necessarily in the traditional

0:49:21.440 --> 0:49:25.279
<v Speaker 5>kind of two five to one way, and things that

0:49:25.400 --> 0:49:28.680
<v Speaker 5>weren't in that kind of form, like no aaba forms

0:49:28.719 --> 0:49:31.240
<v Speaker 5>and that kind of thing. Right, So what I wrote

0:49:31.800 --> 0:49:36.200
<v Speaker 5>was more poppish, so to say, and if you if

0:49:36.239 --> 0:49:38.640
<v Speaker 5>you would listen to it, like my song was the

0:49:38.719 --> 0:49:41.960
<v Speaker 5>outlier on the record because I listened to everything he said,

0:49:41.960 --> 0:49:45.560
<v Speaker 5>and I did everything literally in these little sections odd

0:49:45.560 --> 0:49:50.840
<v Speaker 5>time signatures or whatever. But it really pointed to something

0:49:50.880 --> 0:49:55.759
<v Speaker 5>more commercial, so to say, than they're writing and you know,

0:49:55.800 --> 0:49:58.000
<v Speaker 5>I know so many it was like a potpourria music,

0:49:58.000 --> 0:50:00.239
<v Speaker 5>which was probably good that the record never came out.

0:50:00.600 --> 0:50:03.680
<v Speaker 5>But so I didn't feel so connected. I feel like

0:50:03.719 --> 0:50:07.920
<v Speaker 5>I was there in the beginning, but I wasn't super connected,

0:50:07.920 --> 0:50:10.440
<v Speaker 5>and I was playing with Wayne and I was really

0:50:10.520 --> 0:50:13.439
<v Speaker 5>just trying to do that gig because I hadn't really

0:50:13.440 --> 0:50:16.520
<v Speaker 5>played a fusion gig, like when I auditioned for Wayne

0:50:16.520 --> 0:50:19.560
<v Speaker 5>it was fourteen drummers, and you know, I got the

0:50:19.640 --> 0:50:23.680
<v Speaker 5>gig somehow, and that was my first real foray into

0:50:23.800 --> 0:50:26.120
<v Speaker 5>just you know, playing group stuff. But I had been listening,

0:50:26.160 --> 0:50:29.040
<v Speaker 5>of course, to Weather Report and all of that, and

0:50:29.440 --> 0:50:31.480
<v Speaker 5>you know, coming up, I mean Earthen when the Fire

0:50:31.640 --> 0:50:34.840
<v Speaker 5>was my favorite band. You had asked earlier if I

0:50:34.880 --> 0:50:37.319
<v Speaker 5>was listening to all this other music. I mean, I

0:50:37.360 --> 0:50:40.200
<v Speaker 5>remember the first place I was when I heard Go

0:50:40.200 --> 0:50:43.279
<v Speaker 5>Go at a party. Excuse me, where'd you hear Go Go?

0:50:43.320 --> 0:50:46.080
<v Speaker 5>At a party in West Medford? In Medford?

0:50:46.160 --> 0:50:48.719
<v Speaker 7>Well, I said there was a black community. See it's not,

0:50:49.080 --> 0:50:51.120
<v Speaker 7>but it's so go Go is so localized. That's why

0:50:51.120 --> 0:50:52.160
<v Speaker 7>I'm like it made it up there.

0:50:52.320 --> 0:50:55.120
<v Speaker 5>Okay, yeah, of course, yeah, chuck frown. And then I

0:50:55.160 --> 0:50:57.200
<v Speaker 5>remember the first time, you know, I was at another

0:50:57.360 --> 0:50:59.240
<v Speaker 5>one of those parties. You know, I heard rappers Delight.

0:50:59.360 --> 0:51:01.759
<v Speaker 5>You know, it was my first introduction to hip hop.

0:51:01.800 --> 0:51:06.040
<v Speaker 5>I didn't know what was happening before that, but yeah,

0:51:06.160 --> 0:51:08.239
<v Speaker 5>you know, so like I was listening to all of

0:51:08.280 --> 0:51:12.600
<v Speaker 5>that stuff coming up, and you know, just as a sidebar,

0:51:13.840 --> 0:51:16.279
<v Speaker 5>I was in B Street, so I feel like I was.

0:51:16.320 --> 0:51:21.160
<v Speaker 4>Actually stop, stop, come back.

0:51:21.800 --> 0:51:25.080
<v Speaker 1>You did know that, no, yeah.

0:51:24.920 --> 0:51:26.879
<v Speaker 5>I'll say to a little clip. It was just like

0:51:26.920 --> 0:51:27.920
<v Speaker 5>a quick cameo.

0:51:28.040 --> 0:51:31.640
<v Speaker 4>But wait when they were doing the ballet thing on stage. Yep.

0:51:33.960 --> 0:51:37.000
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, but I was brought in from Medford, Massachusetts by

0:51:37.040 --> 0:51:40.319
<v Speaker 5>Harry Belafonto to play like this little drum fill.

0:51:40.600 --> 0:51:43.680
<v Speaker 6>I'm sorry, these sentences are so compound that you give.

0:51:45.320 --> 0:51:45.680
<v Speaker 4>My hair.

0:51:45.840 --> 0:51:48.800
<v Speaker 6>Belafonte for the Beach Street came.

0:51:49.400 --> 0:51:52.560
<v Speaker 5>Because, yeah, because he was the producer of Beach Street

0:51:53.000 --> 0:51:57.879
<v Speaker 5>and was playing in his band. So I had made

0:51:57.880 --> 0:52:00.480
<v Speaker 5>an album that's actually gonna come out forty years now

0:52:01.200 --> 0:52:04.279
<v Speaker 5>with Kenny Baron, Bussell Williams and George Coleman, and I

0:52:04.360 --> 0:52:07.839
<v Speaker 5>was I was sixteen at a time, so we had

0:52:07.920 --> 0:52:10.200
<v Speaker 5>just done it. So at this point now I'm seventeen

0:52:10.840 --> 0:52:15.360
<v Speaker 5>and uh, Diane came to Boston with Harry. So I

0:52:15.400 --> 0:52:18.319
<v Speaker 5>hadn't seen her since this Witchita vessel when I was ten.

0:52:18.400 --> 0:52:21.080
<v Speaker 5>So we had a big reunion and she I gave

0:52:21.120 --> 0:52:24.000
<v Speaker 5>her this tape of my album. It was a green

0:52:24.719 --> 0:52:28.120
<v Speaker 5>cassette tap and she gave it to Harry and then

0:52:28.200 --> 0:52:30.520
<v Speaker 5>out of the blue, he just called and we thought

0:52:30.520 --> 0:52:32.719
<v Speaker 5>it was a joke. You know, there's a couple of

0:52:32.719 --> 0:52:34.160
<v Speaker 5>people that called. We thought it was a joke. Benny

0:52:34.200 --> 0:52:36.600
<v Speaker 5>Goodman call once too. We definitely thought that was a joker.

0:52:37.520 --> 0:52:41.759
<v Speaker 5>It was, and them like yeah with Harry though.

0:52:41.840 --> 0:52:44.920
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, we were coming from you are making the wrong

0:52:45.000 --> 0:52:46.560
<v Speaker 7>movies around the wrong people.

0:52:46.600 --> 0:52:47.920
<v Speaker 6>I'm like, when is this movie?

0:52:49.200 --> 0:52:53.160
<v Speaker 3>Literally I'm literally okay, I'm watching the scene right now.

0:52:54.040 --> 0:52:56.280
<v Speaker 4>I'm sorry, I had to pull it up with my monitor.

0:52:56.800 --> 0:52:57.000
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

0:52:57.000 --> 0:53:00.600
<v Speaker 7>No, I was talking about Terry lynk care into movie

0:53:00.760 --> 0:53:03.920
<v Speaker 7>about her life because it's r never in my whole

0:53:04.000 --> 0:53:05.879
<v Speaker 7>there's never been, never never.

0:53:06.800 --> 0:53:11.120
<v Speaker 5>It's just it's funny. It's yeah. Yeah, So I feel like,

0:53:11.920 --> 0:53:14.520
<v Speaker 5>you know, like some weird in some weird way, that

0:53:14.719 --> 0:53:17.400
<v Speaker 5>was you know, that was the word I'm looking for it.

0:53:17.440 --> 0:53:20.240
<v Speaker 5>I was kind of predicting. You know, I've always felt

0:53:20.280 --> 0:53:24.480
<v Speaker 5>connected to all the genres. You I've always been a

0:53:24.480 --> 0:53:26.800
<v Speaker 5>bit of a bridge, you know, with all the genres

0:53:26.840 --> 0:53:29.160
<v Speaker 5>because I mean, I'm a jazz head, of course, but

0:53:29.200 --> 0:53:30.719
<v Speaker 5>I mean I went through many years when I lived

0:53:30.760 --> 0:53:33.400
<v Speaker 5>in La saying, don't call me a jazz musician. You know,

0:53:33.440 --> 0:53:36.160
<v Speaker 5>I'm just a musician. Then you know, I had to

0:53:36.200 --> 0:53:37.880
<v Speaker 5>come back, you know, like my dad was like, you

0:53:37.880 --> 0:53:39.200
<v Speaker 5>can't run away from who you are.

0:53:40.280 --> 0:53:43.000
<v Speaker 6>And also you stay collaborating with folks.

0:53:43.000 --> 0:53:44.359
<v Speaker 7>So I'm like, I know you still got your ear

0:53:44.400 --> 0:53:46.760
<v Speaker 7>to the streets because you know, you still got folks

0:53:46.760 --> 0:53:48.600
<v Speaker 7>like Rhapsody on Records and whatnot.

0:53:48.680 --> 0:53:51.880
<v Speaker 5>So yeah, I'm doing an R now for a Candid

0:53:52.000 --> 0:53:55.000
<v Speaker 5>which is an old label that John Burke and the

0:53:55.040 --> 0:54:00.640
<v Speaker 5>team that he's with, Acceleration Music. They're buying labels. They

0:54:00.680 --> 0:54:03.600
<v Speaker 5>bought Alligator Records. They about Candidate about a hip hop

0:54:03.680 --> 0:54:05.920
<v Speaker 5>label too. So I'm doing it, you know. So it's

0:54:05.880 --> 0:54:08.239
<v Speaker 5>a dream that I always wanted. I always wanted to do.

0:54:08.280 --> 0:54:09.759
<v Speaker 5>I read hit Man back in the day, and I

0:54:09.800 --> 0:54:12.400
<v Speaker 5>wanted to do an R. And one day I was

0:54:12.440 --> 0:54:13.680
<v Speaker 5>walking and I said, well that's.

0:54:13.600 --> 0:54:16.239
<v Speaker 4>When you know you've read hip Man and then still

0:54:16.280 --> 0:54:17.360
<v Speaker 4>wanted to be in the industry.

0:54:17.920 --> 0:54:19.399
<v Speaker 5>Oh yeah, that was what I wanted to do.

0:54:21.480 --> 0:54:24.160
<v Speaker 4>Light to be like, nah, don't don't come here.

0:54:26.040 --> 0:54:28.160
<v Speaker 5>I wanted to do you know, I wanted to be

0:54:28.400 --> 0:54:31.640
<v Speaker 5>Clive Davis. I wanted to be you know, like and

0:54:31.680 --> 0:54:33.600
<v Speaker 5>so I felt like, you know, there was only two

0:54:33.680 --> 0:54:36.560
<v Speaker 5>black women you know that we're doing. We're doing that right,

0:54:36.560 --> 0:54:40.640
<v Speaker 5>Suzanda Pass and Sylvia Rome. Yeah, so when people ask

0:54:40.719 --> 0:54:44.319
<v Speaker 5>me about glass ceilings, that's what I say as a producer,

0:54:44.440 --> 0:54:47.760
<v Speaker 5>as an R person, those are the places I felt

0:54:47.800 --> 0:54:50.480
<v Speaker 5>more of a glass ceiling and playing the drums.

0:54:50.080 --> 0:54:56.600
<v Speaker 7>Necessarily, like you ain't got the ears?

0:54:57.040 --> 0:54:59.719
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, like like I've mean or like I'm in some

0:54:59.760 --> 0:55:04.879
<v Speaker 5>little jazz box over here that you know, because I'm

0:55:04.960 --> 0:55:08.160
<v Speaker 5>like all of those people were attorneys. They don't have

0:55:08.200 --> 0:55:08.880
<v Speaker 5>no years on me.

0:55:09.800 --> 0:55:12.000
<v Speaker 7>So what are you an r AND for right now? Specifically?

0:55:12.040 --> 0:55:13.040
<v Speaker 7>Like what do you what?

0:55:13.200 --> 0:55:16.440
<v Speaker 5>You Well, the idea with Candida, and it's all relatively new,

0:55:16.440 --> 0:55:20.200
<v Speaker 5>but is to try to find people that are really

0:55:20.920 --> 0:55:27.120
<v Speaker 5>merging jazz with hip hop. And that's fun assignment, yeah exactly.

0:55:27.160 --> 0:55:31.040
<v Speaker 5>But it's a catalog label too, and we're not going

0:55:31.120 --> 0:55:33.360
<v Speaker 5>to say no to certain cool records. So the first

0:55:33.400 --> 0:55:36.880
<v Speaker 5>record that I got done happened to be a live

0:55:36.960 --> 0:55:41.680
<v Speaker 5>record with Wayne Shorter, Esperanza and myself, and so that's

0:55:41.680 --> 0:55:45.279
<v Speaker 5>gonna be coming out in September, I think. And then

0:55:45.320 --> 0:55:46.959
<v Speaker 5>I have a new record that would be coming out

0:55:47.000 --> 0:55:50.280
<v Speaker 5>on it too. And then the other person I signed

0:55:50.400 --> 0:55:54.200
<v Speaker 5>was Morgan Garn who's been playing in my band. But

0:55:54.400 --> 0:55:58.040
<v Speaker 5>he's like a program, dude. It's not necessarily hip hop,

0:55:58.080 --> 0:56:00.680
<v Speaker 5>but it's like I don't know, it's kind of like

0:56:00.719 --> 0:56:04.440
<v Speaker 5>if you took Wayne Shorter and had him like today

0:56:04.520 --> 0:56:07.800
<v Speaker 5>and programming and using you know, all of the right

0:56:08.480 --> 0:56:09.800
<v Speaker 5>things that are available today.

0:56:09.840 --> 0:56:12.680
<v Speaker 4>You know, So I have so many questions.

0:56:12.719 --> 0:56:15.399
<v Speaker 3>But since we're just going all over the place as

0:56:15.440 --> 0:56:18.800
<v Speaker 3>a professor, coming full circle now back to Berkeley.

0:56:19.120 --> 0:56:20.560
<v Speaker 4>Do you find yourself in a position?

0:56:20.760 --> 0:56:24.800
<v Speaker 3>So the year that I left NYU, I did n

0:56:24.880 --> 0:56:27.600
<v Speaker 3>YU for like four or five years, and my last

0:56:27.680 --> 0:56:30.680
<v Speaker 3>year I kind of had an O ship moment when

0:56:30.719 --> 0:56:33.560
<v Speaker 3>I realized that my students knew more than I did.

0:56:34.480 --> 0:56:37.200
<v Speaker 3>You know, we were talking about I think my last class,

0:56:37.400 --> 0:56:40.520
<v Speaker 3>I believe we taught about Thriller, and they had a

0:56:40.560 --> 0:56:45.279
<v Speaker 3>lot of synth questions like synth choice questions that I

0:56:45.280 --> 0:56:47.480
<v Speaker 3>had to do extra homework, and I realized, like, yo,

0:56:47.600 --> 0:56:50.000
<v Speaker 3>these kids are smarter and shit like, they know more

0:56:50.000 --> 0:56:55.040
<v Speaker 3>than I do as a professor, especially with where music

0:56:55.160 --> 0:56:58.640
<v Speaker 3>is going. And now I don't know specifically the class

0:56:58.680 --> 0:57:01.680
<v Speaker 3>that you're teaching at Berkeley, but you know, there's so

0:57:01.760 --> 0:57:04.839
<v Speaker 3>many levels of musicianship as far as like gospel chop

0:57:04.960 --> 0:57:09.400
<v Speaker 3>musicians and broken beat musicians. I guess now there's lo

0:57:09.600 --> 0:57:13.839
<v Speaker 3>fi kind of that genre of music or whatever in

0:57:13.880 --> 0:57:16.360
<v Speaker 3>your mind, not do you feel as if you have

0:57:16.440 --> 0:57:19.600
<v Speaker 3>something to contribute, but do you sometimes feel like a

0:57:19.600 --> 0:57:23.720
<v Speaker 3>stranger in a strange land With the way that musicianship

0:57:23.800 --> 0:57:27.760
<v Speaker 3>is approached now. For instance, I have a member in

0:57:27.880 --> 0:57:30.880
<v Speaker 3>my group right now who we don't know exactly how

0:57:30.920 --> 0:57:35.640
<v Speaker 3>to describe what Stroe Elliott does where he plays a

0:57:35.720 --> 0:57:39.320
<v Speaker 3>drum machine as if he is Taikowski, or like a

0:57:39.360 --> 0:57:43.600
<v Speaker 3>piano player where he's playing samples and whatnot. So with

0:57:43.720 --> 0:57:47.720
<v Speaker 3>this whole new generation of musicians there, like what is

0:57:48.720 --> 0:57:52.840
<v Speaker 3>teaching a student at Berkeley in twenty twenty two henceforth,

0:57:53.440 --> 0:57:55.720
<v Speaker 3>when it seems that now is the time when the

0:57:55.800 --> 0:57:59.040
<v Speaker 3>rules are being just washed away and new rules are

0:57:59.040 --> 0:57:59.440
<v Speaker 3>coming in.

0:58:00.120 --> 0:58:02.600
<v Speaker 5>Well, I mean that's really interesting because that taps on

0:58:02.680 --> 0:58:06.160
<v Speaker 5>a few things for me. I try to stay around

0:58:06.520 --> 0:58:09.640
<v Speaker 5>young musicians. I mean, everybody in my band is younger

0:58:09.680 --> 0:58:13.280
<v Speaker 5>than me, and people that wrote in a different way

0:58:13.360 --> 0:58:17.840
<v Speaker 5>than than I do. And I'm talking about the Social

0:58:17.880 --> 0:58:20.520
<v Speaker 5>Science band. So if you if you heard that record,

0:58:20.720 --> 0:58:25.240
<v Speaker 5>I think it definitely pointed to something different than I

0:58:25.240 --> 0:58:27.960
<v Speaker 5>would have been able to do on my own, you know,

0:58:28.040 --> 0:58:31.400
<v Speaker 5>because of the writing and uh and the players you know,

0:58:31.640 --> 0:58:35.760
<v Speaker 5>like Morgan and uh, and you know Matt and the

0:58:35.800 --> 0:58:39.960
<v Speaker 5>ideas of mixing other genres, like you know, somebody like

0:58:40.000 --> 0:58:43.480
<v Speaker 5>Matt Stevens mixes more indie rock, Aaron Parks is you know,

0:58:43.680 --> 0:58:48.040
<v Speaker 5>like leads into classical composers. You know, Morgan's into you know,

0:58:48.080 --> 0:58:51.720
<v Speaker 5>more of the kind of new school jazz. Uh. And

0:58:51.760 --> 0:58:54.640
<v Speaker 5>then I had Casa Overall, who is not really with

0:58:54.760 --> 0:58:58.400
<v Speaker 5>us any more. Kokaia's doing it, but Cosa uh, you

0:58:58.440 --> 0:59:02.479
<v Speaker 5>know is definitely kind of into more cocaine, yeah, jazz

0:59:02.560 --> 0:59:06.000
<v Speaker 5>me hip hop. So that I did was for me

0:59:06.280 --> 0:59:08.680
<v Speaker 5>to recognize kind of like you know, Prince did, right,

0:59:09.960 --> 0:59:13.760
<v Speaker 5>And Uh, that's my favorite part about Purple Rain is

0:59:13.800 --> 0:59:17.600
<v Speaker 5>that Prince was like finally like, oh, like, you know,

0:59:17.640 --> 0:59:20.160
<v Speaker 5>I need to in order for me to remain relevant,

0:59:20.200 --> 0:59:22.400
<v Speaker 5>I have to let Wendy and Lisa write, you know.

0:59:22.960 --> 0:59:26.160
<v Speaker 5>So for me that was kind of like my reckoning

0:59:26.280 --> 0:59:30.080
<v Speaker 5>with I'm gonna do much better, you know, with this

0:59:30.200 --> 0:59:34.000
<v Speaker 5>kind of collective. So I feel like I've always tried

0:59:34.040 --> 0:59:38.439
<v Speaker 5>to keep my ear and my spirit to what's happening now,

0:59:38.520 --> 0:59:42.160
<v Speaker 5>even though I can't do it like you know, like

0:59:42.240 --> 0:59:44.880
<v Speaker 5>they do. You know, I never had gospel chops or

0:59:44.920 --> 0:59:48.000
<v Speaker 5>something that I just never did it, never went to church,

0:59:48.160 --> 0:59:51.960
<v Speaker 5>never you know, played in church, and never developed that

0:59:52.080 --> 0:59:55.080
<v Speaker 5>kind of technique. And I don't really hear the drums

0:59:55.120 --> 0:59:58.720
<v Speaker 5>like that. But I can't see how, you know, listening

0:59:58.760 --> 1:00:02.520
<v Speaker 5>to this younger generation, how it has influenced me to

1:00:02.600 --> 1:00:06.000
<v Speaker 5>some degree, you know. And so as far as the

1:00:06.040 --> 1:00:11.040
<v Speaker 5>stranger strange land, I don't really feel that. I feel

1:00:11.080 --> 1:00:15.240
<v Speaker 5>like I'm constantly being fed, you know, and it kind

1:00:15.240 --> 1:00:17.480
<v Speaker 5>of you know, in the end, you know, comes up

1:00:17.520 --> 1:00:19.320
<v Speaker 5>my way, and I still feel like I can comment,

1:00:19.920 --> 1:00:21.680
<v Speaker 5>you know, on what they're doing.

1:00:21.920 --> 1:00:23.720
<v Speaker 4>So you're still at Berkeley.

1:00:24.000 --> 1:00:28.480
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, absolutely, I'm always a student, always a student. But

1:00:28.640 --> 1:00:31.440
<v Speaker 5>you know, what that also taps on, though, is how

1:00:31.520 --> 1:00:35.320
<v Speaker 5>jazz education has screwed up jazz because what I'm dealing

1:00:35.400 --> 1:00:39.560
<v Speaker 5>with mostly are people that come out of jazz programs.

1:00:39.840 --> 1:00:43.560
<v Speaker 5>And now the people in the jazz programs are mostly affluent,

1:00:44.160 --> 1:00:46.400
<v Speaker 5>you know, from certain cities. So I don't know, like

1:00:47.000 --> 1:00:50.480
<v Speaker 5>it's all over really, but people that had programs in

1:00:50.560 --> 1:00:55.360
<v Speaker 5>school and jazz was kind of more street music, you know,

1:00:55.480 --> 1:00:58.560
<v Speaker 5>I mean it was from the people and their experience

1:00:59.160 --> 1:01:02.920
<v Speaker 5>academia exactly. So the academia they started, you know, they

1:01:03.240 --> 1:01:06.160
<v Speaker 5>were able to codify it in a way and then uh,

1:01:06.440 --> 1:01:11.000
<v Speaker 5>you know, uh, what's the word make money from it?

1:01:11.040 --> 1:01:16.160
<v Speaker 5>Monetizer monetize, But there was another word modify, commodify. Yeah, ok, yeah,

1:01:16.280 --> 1:01:21.160
<v Speaker 5>And I feel like now to get into a school

1:01:21.360 --> 1:01:23.680
<v Speaker 5>you have to be on this certain level and have

1:01:23.800 --> 1:01:28.880
<v Speaker 5>cone through this system, which is you know, is still

1:01:28.920 --> 1:01:31.440
<v Speaker 5>dealing with you know, it's yes, it's prohibitive for a

1:01:31.480 --> 1:01:36.480
<v Speaker 5>lot of people. Yeah, there's a racist, sexist system, you know,

1:01:36.720 --> 1:01:40.280
<v Speaker 5>so income based what else what I mean, that's why

1:01:40.320 --> 1:01:46.800
<v Speaker 5>it's racist. Yeah.

1:01:46.880 --> 1:01:49.520
<v Speaker 3>There's a certain side of musicianship that I'm seeing now

1:01:49.560 --> 1:01:55.680
<v Speaker 3>with younger people in which they're able to do whatever,

1:01:55.840 --> 1:02:01.120
<v Speaker 3>fly to the bumblebee levels of speed and and literally

1:02:01.280 --> 1:02:05.800
<v Speaker 3>just packing everything in the first one minute, whereas where

1:02:05.840 --> 1:02:09.160
<v Speaker 3>I tell them to do something like my dad had

1:02:09.160 --> 1:02:12.360
<v Speaker 3>a trick where he would make musicians just play a ballot,

1:02:12.560 --> 1:02:16.880
<v Speaker 3>play something very simple, and man, they will all fall apart,

1:02:17.000 --> 1:02:19.920
<v Speaker 3>one by one. They would just like fall this like

1:02:19.960 --> 1:02:22.920
<v Speaker 3>if you ask them to play tea for two or chopsticks.

1:02:23.600 --> 1:02:25.480
<v Speaker 3>It was like asking them to play rights to spring.

1:02:26.040 --> 1:02:28.640
<v Speaker 3>So as as a teacher, do you find it that

1:02:28.800 --> 1:02:33.680
<v Speaker 3>more students are now in this We're in an era

1:02:33.840 --> 1:02:37.680
<v Speaker 3>now where like your Instagram stories is fifteen seconds, like

1:02:37.760 --> 1:02:40.520
<v Speaker 3>your TikTok is thirty seconds, Like you got to have

1:02:40.680 --> 1:02:44.760
<v Speaker 3>all the impact of an entire performance in thirty seconds

1:02:45.600 --> 1:02:48.080
<v Speaker 3>with you know, they don't believe that much in space

1:02:48.160 --> 1:02:51.640
<v Speaker 3>or quietness anymore, like have is there such a thing

1:02:51.680 --> 1:02:56.880
<v Speaker 3>as a drummer who just plays straight ahead and gives

1:02:56.880 --> 1:02:57.760
<v Speaker 3>what's required?

1:02:57.880 --> 1:02:59.280
<v Speaker 4>Or are you dealing with like.

1:03:01.400 --> 1:03:04.480
<v Speaker 3>More gospel chops people that have to like have bells

1:03:04.480 --> 1:03:07.520
<v Speaker 3>and whistles and firing, eating and everything.

1:03:07.680 --> 1:03:12.080
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I love it. Time field is the most important

1:03:12.120 --> 1:03:15.000
<v Speaker 5>thing period right for a drummer, Like if you don't

1:03:15.000 --> 1:03:18.240
<v Speaker 5>have a time field it feels good, then nothing else

1:03:18.520 --> 1:03:21.360
<v Speaker 5>really matters, no matter what the genre, you know, and

1:03:21.400 --> 1:03:23.600
<v Speaker 5>then it needs to be you know, I'm into playing

1:03:23.640 --> 1:03:26.880
<v Speaker 5>free these days. You know, it's just kind of where

1:03:26.880 --> 1:03:29.640
<v Speaker 5>my head is. But there's time in that, you know,

1:03:29.720 --> 1:03:32.600
<v Speaker 5>it's not it's not like free means absolutely no time.

1:03:33.480 --> 1:03:35.960
<v Speaker 5>And I think the people that play free the best

1:03:36.080 --> 1:03:39.760
<v Speaker 5>of once they have good rhythm. But as far as

1:03:39.800 --> 1:03:44.040
<v Speaker 5>the students are concerned, I don't teach drums anymore. I

1:03:44.040 --> 1:03:47.600
<v Speaker 5>haven't done that in probably like six years or so.

1:03:48.880 --> 1:03:51.680
<v Speaker 5>I just have ensembles and right now, I'm the artistic

1:03:51.720 --> 1:03:55.200
<v Speaker 5>director of an institute, but I do have two ensembles

1:03:55.280 --> 1:03:58.280
<v Speaker 5>in that institute, and so I'm just dealing with the

1:03:58.320 --> 1:04:05.160
<v Speaker 5>overall sound of the of the group more than individuals.

1:04:05.400 --> 1:04:07.480
<v Speaker 5>But it's the same thing with all the instruments.

1:04:07.480 --> 1:04:10.400
<v Speaker 3>What you're saying, is that hard to convey now to

1:04:10.480 --> 1:04:14.600
<v Speaker 3>a generation that feels like to me, all Star games

1:04:14.640 --> 1:04:18.760
<v Speaker 3>are the most boringest games ever in basketball because you know,

1:04:19.560 --> 1:04:24.520
<v Speaker 3>gonna try to show off, whereas a Golden State Warriors

1:04:24.520 --> 1:04:30.000
<v Speaker 3>in Boston. Sorry, by the way, you know, it's literally

1:04:30.120 --> 1:04:33.640
<v Speaker 3>about teammate and you putting in your twenty percent and

1:04:33.720 --> 1:04:36.120
<v Speaker 3>him putting in his twenty percent and doing one hundred percent?

1:04:37.600 --> 1:04:41.000
<v Speaker 3>Is that harder to convey on students now? As far

1:04:41.000 --> 1:04:44.360
<v Speaker 3>as ensemble is concerned, well, I.

1:04:44.320 --> 1:04:48.720
<v Speaker 5>Mean sometimes I'm actually asking them to play more because

1:04:49.000 --> 1:04:52.760
<v Speaker 5>that's the part of me that is like old school

1:04:52.840 --> 1:04:55.720
<v Speaker 5>and jazz, like you know, like you gotta like I'm

1:04:55.760 --> 1:04:59.240
<v Speaker 5>finding that a lot of them can't play consecutive ace

1:04:59.280 --> 1:05:03.800
<v Speaker 5>notes and construct lines that are interesting. You know, they've

1:05:03.920 --> 1:05:07.360
<v Speaker 5>gone into this like moved into something else, and I

1:05:07.400 --> 1:05:10.520
<v Speaker 5>think they're using too much space sometimes, Like what you're

1:05:10.600 --> 1:05:13.439
<v Speaker 5>saying I would have thought, like a little bit back

1:05:13.480 --> 1:05:16.400
<v Speaker 5>in the day where everybody was just blazing all the time,

1:05:17.040 --> 1:05:20.560
<v Speaker 5>and yeah, that's tiring. I get tired of listening after

1:05:21.120 --> 1:05:24.040
<v Speaker 5>you know, a minute or two. That's why. That's another

1:05:24.040 --> 1:05:27.480
<v Speaker 5>reason why I don't really listen too much or prefer

1:05:27.560 --> 1:05:30.360
<v Speaker 5>to listen to the gospel chops drumming, because I'm bored

1:05:30.400 --> 1:05:33.600
<v Speaker 5>after I you know, it's just I get bored, you know,

1:05:33.920 --> 1:05:36.560
<v Speaker 5>because I'm not a geek, a drum geek, you know,

1:05:36.680 --> 1:05:39.240
<v Speaker 5>So I don't really care about that. And I think

1:05:39.240 --> 1:05:42.400
<v Speaker 5>at the end of the day, that's what your job is,

1:05:42.440 --> 1:05:45.560
<v Speaker 5>to make the listener care, right, what is it that?

1:05:46.000 --> 1:05:48.720
<v Speaker 5>Why do we even do this? You know? So if

1:05:49.000 --> 1:05:51.720
<v Speaker 5>you feel like it's to make them groove that they care,

1:05:51.840 --> 1:05:54.680
<v Speaker 5>you know, that's a level of care, right. But I

1:05:54.680 --> 1:05:57.320
<v Speaker 5>also feel like, you know, kind of coming out of

1:05:57.360 --> 1:05:59.680
<v Speaker 5>the way short of in Herbie Hancock book, I think

1:05:59.720 --> 1:06:03.840
<v Speaker 5>it's about touching the humanity and them, you know, exploring

1:06:04.120 --> 1:06:06.840
<v Speaker 5>what it is that you share in common. So how

1:06:06.880 --> 1:06:12.440
<v Speaker 5>do I inspire you? That's my humanity relating to your humanity,

1:06:12.840 --> 1:06:16.320
<v Speaker 5>and so that's where my head is. And so sometimes

1:06:16.320 --> 1:06:18.880
<v Speaker 5>when I'm listening to some of these young musicians, I

1:06:18.920 --> 1:06:22.360
<v Speaker 5>can't get past their sound, let alone the notes, you know,

1:06:22.360 --> 1:06:25.040
<v Speaker 5>because there's nothing in there sound yet there's no pain,

1:06:26.120 --> 1:06:28.320
<v Speaker 5>you know, I don't hear the joy, you know what

1:06:28.360 --> 1:06:30.240
<v Speaker 5>I mean. So I try to get them to, you know,

1:06:30.680 --> 1:06:34.240
<v Speaker 5>go back to the beginning. Like I remember once being

1:06:34.680 --> 1:06:36.760
<v Speaker 5>on some I got honored and there was a I

1:06:36.760 --> 1:06:38.560
<v Speaker 5>can't remember who it was, but there was a pro

1:06:38.680 --> 1:06:42.840
<v Speaker 5>ball player, must have been for the Patriots, and because

1:06:42.840 --> 1:06:46.240
<v Speaker 5>it was in a Boston event, and he said, and

1:06:46.280 --> 1:06:48.800
<v Speaker 5>I'll never forget this because this is how I feel

1:06:48.800 --> 1:06:50.760
<v Speaker 5>too it in music. But he said, you know, he

1:06:50.840 --> 1:06:54.000
<v Speaker 5>was all star in college and then when he got

1:06:54.120 --> 1:06:57.040
<v Speaker 5>to the Patriots, they said, now let us show you,

1:06:57.040 --> 1:06:59.040
<v Speaker 5>you know, how to throw the ball or how to

1:06:59.080 --> 1:07:01.480
<v Speaker 5>catch the ball. He had to like go back.

1:07:01.600 --> 1:07:03.680
<v Speaker 6>He played it a little bit and.

1:07:06.880 --> 1:07:10.280
<v Speaker 5>Burn go back to the basics. So for me, that's

1:07:10.320 --> 1:07:14.080
<v Speaker 5>the same with sound, you know, like why is it

1:07:14.120 --> 1:07:17.040
<v Speaker 5>Dwayne Shorter could play one note and break your heart?

1:07:17.560 --> 1:07:22.280
<v Speaker 5>Like it's about what you're projecting, you know. So the

1:07:22.320 --> 1:07:25.240
<v Speaker 5>greatest compliments I ever get is when somebody said, damn,

1:07:25.400 --> 1:07:27.680
<v Speaker 5>somebody else just played that drum set. But then when

1:07:27.680 --> 1:07:30.800
<v Speaker 5>you played it, like wow, you know, the sound changed,

1:07:31.960 --> 1:07:35.680
<v Speaker 5>and that's when I know that's right, that's what because

1:07:35.680 --> 1:07:39.640
<v Speaker 5>it's the sound is your spirit, right, you know what

1:07:39.640 --> 1:07:40.000
<v Speaker 5>I mean?

1:07:40.760 --> 1:07:44.760
<v Speaker 3>I would say probably the Mosaic project is one of

1:07:44.760 --> 1:07:47.480
<v Speaker 3>your most beloved projects. Could you tell me about just

1:07:47.520 --> 1:07:51.040
<v Speaker 3>the whole concept of doing that album and and gathering

1:07:51.280 --> 1:07:54.600
<v Speaker 3>these uh these women together to do this album and

1:07:55.320 --> 1:07:57.160
<v Speaker 3>how it came to fruition.

1:07:58.320 --> 1:08:02.400
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I did gig in Israel. I had a gig

1:08:02.400 --> 1:08:05.520
<v Speaker 5>in Israel called Esperanza. It was the first time, well

1:08:05.520 --> 1:08:08.920
<v Speaker 5>the second time we played together, and she was still

1:08:09.000 --> 1:08:10.880
<v Speaker 5>like she had come out of Berkeley and started teaching

1:08:11.040 --> 1:08:14.040
<v Speaker 5>at Berkeley, and that's when I met her first year teaching.

1:08:14.320 --> 1:08:17.960
<v Speaker 5>So I called her and Jerry Allen and a saxophone

1:08:17.960 --> 1:08:21.679
<v Speaker 5>player from Hall and Tennka Postma. I realized I called

1:08:21.720 --> 1:08:24.080
<v Speaker 5>three women for a gig just based on the way

1:08:24.080 --> 1:08:26.840
<v Speaker 5>they played. I didn't realize that it was three women

1:08:27.439 --> 1:08:29.880
<v Speaker 5>and this was going to be an all women quartet

1:08:30.360 --> 1:08:33.280
<v Speaker 5>until after I had, you know, booked them. So it

1:08:33.320 --> 1:08:35.800
<v Speaker 5>wasn't anything I was trying to do. I just wanted

1:08:35.800 --> 1:08:38.599
<v Speaker 5>to play with the three of them, and I was like, Okay,

1:08:38.640 --> 1:08:42.120
<v Speaker 5>this is a big deal for me because Throughout my

1:08:42.120 --> 1:08:44.599
<v Speaker 5>whole career, people had asked me, oh, could you do

1:08:44.640 --> 1:08:47.800
<v Speaker 5>this women's festival? Could he play with these women? And

1:08:47.960 --> 1:08:50.080
<v Speaker 5>I was kind of like, you know, when I look

1:08:50.120 --> 1:08:52.840
<v Speaker 5>at somebody like Mary L. Williams who didn't want to

1:08:52.840 --> 1:08:54.479
<v Speaker 5>play with other women, she said, well, why would I

1:08:54.479 --> 1:08:56.600
<v Speaker 5>want to play with them when I'm playing with the best,

1:08:56.840 --> 1:08:57.599
<v Speaker 5>you know, And I.

1:08:57.520 --> 1:08:59.240
<v Speaker 6>Was wondering how you felt about this?

1:08:59.600 --> 1:09:04.880
<v Speaker 5>Yes, okay, yeah, yeah. And so I shot away from

1:09:04.960 --> 1:09:08.320
<v Speaker 5>it my entire career, and there was always be somebody like,

1:09:08.400 --> 1:09:11.600
<v Speaker 5>you know, I played with Ingrid Jensen or you know,

1:09:11.640 --> 1:09:15.880
<v Speaker 5>Renie Robinson, with Wayne, with Bernard Wright, you know, Rest

1:09:15.920 --> 1:09:21.080
<v Speaker 5>in Peace, and there was always a woman here or there,

1:09:21.200 --> 1:09:24.479
<v Speaker 5>you know, Jerry Back with Mbase and before that actually,

1:09:25.080 --> 1:09:28.439
<v Speaker 5>but never all together, you know, And I really shot

1:09:28.479 --> 1:09:30.240
<v Speaker 5>away from it. So I did it, and then I said,

1:09:30.760 --> 1:09:34.240
<v Speaker 5>this is a moment that I really want to celebrate

1:09:34.479 --> 1:09:37.519
<v Speaker 5>and shine some light on. So I started with just

1:09:37.560 --> 1:09:39.799
<v Speaker 5>the four of them, and then I just kept adding

1:09:39.920 --> 1:09:44.200
<v Speaker 5>people and it just became like twenty one women and

1:09:44.320 --> 1:09:47.880
<v Speaker 5>that's really just how it started. And I wasn't really

1:09:47.960 --> 1:09:51.880
<v Speaker 5>trying to make any kind of political statement other than, oh,

1:09:51.960 --> 1:09:54.200
<v Speaker 5>there are a lot of amazing women that play and

1:09:54.479 --> 1:09:57.120
<v Speaker 5>let me just put through this record, you know.

1:09:57.080 --> 1:09:58.639
<v Speaker 6>So this is how the sisterhood started?

1:09:58.680 --> 1:10:00.920
<v Speaker 7>Then, because I want to ask you, is there a

1:10:00.960 --> 1:10:04.559
<v Speaker 7>sisterhood in well, I was gonna say jazz. Really, of course,

1:10:04.640 --> 1:10:08.720
<v Speaker 7>jazz when it comes to musicians, you know of a

1:10:08.760 --> 1:10:09.639
<v Speaker 7>sisterhood that way.

1:10:10.439 --> 1:10:12.719
<v Speaker 5>I mean, there is, But there's a lot of women

1:10:13.439 --> 1:10:17.680
<v Speaker 5>that are playing jazz that still they think about it.

1:10:18.800 --> 1:10:21.040
<v Speaker 5>How do I say, not as much like a sisterhood

1:10:21.040 --> 1:10:23.559
<v Speaker 5>because you know, we're affected by the patriarchy too, right,

1:10:23.600 --> 1:10:26.320
<v Speaker 5>So women are invested in it. Yeah, they don't want

1:10:26.320 --> 1:10:28.639
<v Speaker 5>to play with other women because they feel like it's

1:10:28.680 --> 1:10:30.400
<v Speaker 5>a step down. That's something.

1:10:30.720 --> 1:10:33.759
<v Speaker 7>But as more greats are coming out of the fold,

1:10:33.840 --> 1:10:34.439
<v Speaker 7>how does it be?

1:10:34.640 --> 1:10:36.320
<v Speaker 6>How is it a step down? And to play with

1:10:36.560 --> 1:10:38.000
<v Speaker 6>Terry Well.

1:10:37.840 --> 1:10:40.840
<v Speaker 5>That's the well, I mean, that's the point that there's

1:10:40.880 --> 1:10:43.799
<v Speaker 5>only going to happen. That's why I started apprenticeship program,

1:10:44.160 --> 1:10:46.680
<v Speaker 5>the mentorship program New Music USA, because there's a lot

1:10:46.720 --> 1:10:50.120
<v Speaker 5>of mentorship programs, but apprenticeship means you have to put

1:10:50.160 --> 1:10:53.000
<v Speaker 5>them on the stage with you. And so we got

1:10:53.000 --> 1:10:56.120
<v Speaker 5>a grant of one point two five million dollars to

1:10:56.600 --> 1:11:00.200
<v Speaker 5>do this three year program. And we have a these

1:11:00.200 --> 1:11:03.120
<v Speaker 5>six applicants this first year, and we picked seven and

1:11:03.160 --> 1:11:08.280
<v Speaker 5>so like I did pairings and so some of the

1:11:08.320 --> 1:11:11.040
<v Speaker 5>mentors are Bob McFerrin and Wayne Shorter and you know,

1:11:11.680 --> 1:11:14.880
<v Speaker 5>watch of different people. But some of the apprenticeships are

1:11:14.920 --> 1:11:21.479
<v Speaker 5>with Chris Potter, Linda Mayhanou Esmza, Marcus Miller. He took

1:11:21.520 --> 1:11:25.120
<v Speaker 5>one Alexis, which is great. She's having a blast playing

1:11:25.160 --> 1:11:27.679
<v Speaker 5>with him. So I just feel like, I thought, how

1:11:27.720 --> 1:11:30.720
<v Speaker 5>do we get more men to hire women, because if

1:11:30.720 --> 1:11:33.000
<v Speaker 5>they don't really do it on their own because they

1:11:33.320 --> 1:11:35.800
<v Speaker 5>need to, you know, they don't necessarily know that they

1:11:35.840 --> 1:11:39.080
<v Speaker 5>need to contribute to this the shift, how do we

1:11:39.120 --> 1:11:42.920
<v Speaker 5>get them? So I said, pay them, you know, the.

1:11:42.880 --> 1:11:47.280
<v Speaker 7>Men din women, then the women will start hiring women.

1:11:47.760 --> 1:11:50.799
<v Speaker 5>You know what I mean is once you know, everybody

1:11:50.800 --> 1:11:53.400
<v Speaker 5>has to be invested in gender equity because it's for

1:11:53.479 --> 1:11:57.599
<v Speaker 5>the good of everybody. And I just felt like one

1:11:57.640 --> 1:12:00.880
<v Speaker 5>way to get people interested is is have it affect

1:12:00.880 --> 1:12:03.639
<v Speaker 5>their wallet. If they're getting a free musician and getting

1:12:04.080 --> 1:12:06.960
<v Speaker 5>you know a little money on top of that, it

1:12:07.040 --> 1:12:10.080
<v Speaker 5>might make it easier. And it's you know, so far

1:12:10.280 --> 1:12:12.840
<v Speaker 5>kind of work. You know, this is our inaugural year.

1:12:14.479 --> 1:12:17.640
<v Speaker 5>But anyway, I think that this last record, though, the

1:12:17.680 --> 1:12:19.960
<v Speaker 5>Waiting Game is the one. It's the only one I

1:12:19.960 --> 1:12:22.160
<v Speaker 5>can listen to. Let's put it like that. The other

1:12:22.200 --> 1:12:26.720
<v Speaker 5>ones is I can't. I can't really listen to a

1:12:26.760 --> 1:12:29.400
<v Speaker 5>Waiting Game. I could still listen to. So I think

1:12:29.439 --> 1:12:32.439
<v Speaker 5>that's for me my favorite of all the elbows real

1:12:33.080 --> 1:12:35.519
<v Speaker 5>because I don't cringe when I listen.

1:12:35.840 --> 1:12:38.640
<v Speaker 3>So you're still like in your head about like I

1:12:38.640 --> 1:12:40.200
<v Speaker 3>could have did that better, We could have did a

1:12:40.200 --> 1:12:41.200
<v Speaker 3>big different take.

1:12:41.120 --> 1:12:46.439
<v Speaker 5>Or yeah, or just sometimes like Mosaic Projects, the first one,

1:12:47.080 --> 1:12:48.559
<v Speaker 5>I mean I like things on the second one too,

1:12:48.600 --> 1:12:52.439
<v Speaker 5>but the Mosaic Project, I think that the playing is

1:12:52.800 --> 1:12:57.840
<v Speaker 5>good overall. There's like some sound things, like you know,

1:12:57.960 --> 1:13:02.479
<v Speaker 5>some production things that really both with me. But you know,

1:13:02.560 --> 1:13:04.880
<v Speaker 5>playing is good overall, but it's a little bit far

1:13:04.960 --> 1:13:07.560
<v Speaker 5>away from where I am as a musician. There's a

1:13:07.560 --> 1:13:09.920
<v Speaker 5>little bit of my writing that bothers me. You know

1:13:09.920 --> 1:13:12.040
<v Speaker 5>that I'm like, oh man, I could have really developed

1:13:12.040 --> 1:13:15.160
<v Speaker 5>that idea much better, and I've improved as a writer

1:13:15.439 --> 1:13:20.120
<v Speaker 5>since then, So that's what you know. But overall, I think,

1:13:20.200 --> 1:13:22.280
<v Speaker 5>you know, the playing is okay.

1:13:22.400 --> 1:13:24.679
<v Speaker 6>Oh so you're writing writing these lyrics on waiting game.

1:13:24.800 --> 1:13:27.519
<v Speaker 4>Okay, Well, you've been also singing on all of your records.

1:13:27.520 --> 1:13:31.759
<v Speaker 3>That's you've sung on it since your first album, you've sung.

1:13:33.000 --> 1:13:36.479
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, except this last one. I didn't, you know, way

1:13:36.479 --> 1:13:39.920
<v Speaker 5>to give it, but I wrote all the lyrics, but

1:13:40.520 --> 1:13:41.640
<v Speaker 5>I tried to sing a little bit.

1:13:42.880 --> 1:13:43.120
<v Speaker 3>Man.

1:13:43.400 --> 1:13:44.200
<v Speaker 4>You you got to.

1:13:44.520 --> 1:13:49.639
<v Speaker 3>I guess bucket List check a project before she died,

1:13:51.200 --> 1:13:55.600
<v Speaker 3>maybe like six months before Amy Winehouse died, she was

1:13:55.760 --> 1:13:59.599
<v Speaker 3>stalking me daily telling me that her and I were

1:13:59.640 --> 1:14:07.200
<v Speaker 3>going to redo Money Jungle and yeah, the Money Money

1:14:07.240 --> 1:14:12.679
<v Speaker 3>Jungle album from Duke Ellington and Max Wroton and Charles Minkus,

1:14:12.920 --> 1:14:14.040
<v Speaker 3>the famous trio record.

1:14:14.880 --> 1:14:16.280
<v Speaker 5>What I did that record?

1:14:16.400 --> 1:14:18.360
<v Speaker 4>I know? And you wound up pulling it off.

1:14:18.840 --> 1:14:21.720
<v Speaker 3>So we were planning me her and most Step and

1:14:21.720 --> 1:14:23.599
<v Speaker 3>a few other musicians were going to cover.

1:14:23.439 --> 1:14:24.479
<v Speaker 4>The entire album.

1:14:25.000 --> 1:14:25.719
<v Speaker 5>Oh my god.

1:14:26.240 --> 1:14:30.640
<v Speaker 3>Right, and she passed away and ah, man, I was

1:14:30.680 --> 1:14:33.400
<v Speaker 3>just heartbroken. And then a year and a half or

1:14:33.400 --> 1:14:36.080
<v Speaker 3>for the for the fiftieth anniversary, you actually, what made

1:14:36.080 --> 1:14:38.680
<v Speaker 3>you want to cover that entire album? Because when I

1:14:38.760 --> 1:14:41.000
<v Speaker 3>see it, I was like, wow, what the hell? Like

1:14:41.960 --> 1:14:44.439
<v Speaker 3>it came out, but I wasn't even mad at it.

1:14:44.479 --> 1:14:46.240
<v Speaker 3>But what made you want to cover that album.

1:14:47.560 --> 1:14:49.360
<v Speaker 5>You know, people ask me that all the time, and

1:14:49.800 --> 1:14:53.120
<v Speaker 5>I don't know, it's just it haunted me. I don't

1:14:53.120 --> 1:14:55.000
<v Speaker 5>know what made me choose it, other than it just

1:14:55.080 --> 1:14:58.600
<v Speaker 5>kind of haunted me. And I started reading all these

1:14:58.680 --> 1:15:04.960
<v Speaker 5>Duke Ellington biography books and and I was transcribing, you know,

1:15:04.960 --> 1:15:07.200
<v Speaker 5>in the piano, and I realized these are all mostly

1:15:07.280 --> 1:15:12.080
<v Speaker 5>blues based songs, probably the easiest stuff that Duke Ellington wrote.

1:15:12.520 --> 1:15:14.720
<v Speaker 5>And I knew that it was as far as I

1:15:14.720 --> 1:15:18.480
<v Speaker 5>could go, you know, like with transcribing Duke Ellington a trio.

1:15:18.360 --> 1:15:21.200
<v Speaker 4>Record, you know, and that's the easiest.

1:15:21.600 --> 1:15:25.799
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, this, and it wasn't complex, you know, in general.

1:15:25.960 --> 1:15:30.160
<v Speaker 5>So uh, I kept flipping like, you know, some of

1:15:30.160 --> 1:15:32.439
<v Speaker 5>the songs to the point it didn't sound like it

1:15:32.520 --> 1:15:34.160
<v Speaker 5>so even you know, Christian said when he came in

1:15:34.160 --> 1:15:36.680
<v Speaker 5>the session, he said, you know, you really could have

1:15:36.760 --> 1:15:39.760
<v Speaker 5>just called most of these songs something else, you know,

1:15:45.040 --> 1:15:48.880
<v Speaker 5>but you know, I just I wanted to make sure

1:15:49.120 --> 1:15:53.920
<v Speaker 5>that I wasn't bastardizing, you know, Duke Ellington's music. And

1:15:54.439 --> 1:15:56.679
<v Speaker 5>I read enough interviews, like he said, jazz, we stopped

1:15:56.760 --> 1:16:00.360
<v Speaker 5>using that that word. In nineteen forty seven. He said jazz.

1:16:00.400 --> 1:16:03.759
<v Speaker 5>That just means freedom of expression. And so when I

1:16:03.800 --> 1:16:08.360
<v Speaker 5>realized that's how he felt, then I felt, okay, you

1:16:08.360 --> 1:16:11.280
<v Speaker 5>know about changing his music to that degree.

1:16:11.760 --> 1:16:12.120
<v Speaker 4>Okay.

1:16:12.800 --> 1:16:15.960
<v Speaker 3>And at this phase of your career, and you pretty

1:16:16.000 --> 1:16:22.680
<v Speaker 3>much have done everything. You've You've done scores, you've taught television,

1:16:22.760 --> 1:16:28.719
<v Speaker 3>you've done everything. Is there something that you had yet

1:16:28.760 --> 1:16:31.880
<v Speaker 3>to embarkle on that you wish to do for this

1:16:31.960 --> 1:16:33.280
<v Speaker 3>phase of your career right now?

1:16:34.840 --> 1:16:37.599
<v Speaker 5>Oh man, I'm just getting started as far as I can.

1:16:38.439 --> 1:16:41.240
<v Speaker 5>I mean, I'm doing I'm doing so much now that

1:16:41.280 --> 1:16:44.639
<v Speaker 5>I'm a little pissed that some of these opportunities didn't

1:16:44.680 --> 1:16:47.880
<v Speaker 5>come before. I'm you know, a little tired. I'm fifty six.

1:16:49.200 --> 1:16:52.719
<v Speaker 5>I'll be fifty seven and two months on somebody's baby,

1:16:54.320 --> 1:16:59.200
<v Speaker 5>thank you. So I'm a little tired, you know, and

1:16:59.360 --> 1:17:03.160
<v Speaker 5>I wish that I had some of these opportunities earlier.

1:17:03.200 --> 1:17:05.240
<v Speaker 5>Like right now, I can tell you a couple of

1:17:05.280 --> 1:17:07.880
<v Speaker 5>things really right, really.

1:17:07.960 --> 1:17:11.200
<v Speaker 3>Tell you about business in the fifties, Like I've been

1:17:11.240 --> 1:17:13.160
<v Speaker 3>waiting for this at twenty.

1:17:13.040 --> 1:17:15.240
<v Speaker 4>I think it's the time. You're at least forty one,

1:17:15.560 --> 1:17:16.519
<v Speaker 4>at least thirty nine.

1:17:16.920 --> 1:17:19.800
<v Speaker 2>Say that again now, because you're ready for it now,

1:17:19.800 --> 1:17:21.240
<v Speaker 2>if you got any twenties, you would.

1:17:21.040 --> 1:17:21.599
<v Speaker 4>Have sucked it up.

1:17:22.200 --> 1:17:23.919
<v Speaker 6>Hello, well not maybe.

1:17:23.720 --> 1:17:26.040
<v Speaker 4>A mirror, Yeah, everybody would everybody.

1:17:26.560 --> 1:17:27.360
<v Speaker 6>He started so early.

1:17:27.439 --> 1:17:30.679
<v Speaker 5>So I don't know, I know, but I hear you.

1:17:31.600 --> 1:17:34.320
<v Speaker 5>I hear you, I feel you because I feel the

1:17:34.360 --> 1:17:37.519
<v Speaker 5>same way. And honestly, I hear what you're saying. We're

1:17:37.560 --> 1:17:41.479
<v Speaker 5>wiser and maybe we're doing it better or different, but

1:17:41.560 --> 1:17:45.200
<v Speaker 5>I feel like I'm the same person really, you know,

1:17:45.240 --> 1:17:47.400
<v Speaker 5>twenty years ago, I would have been going on thirty

1:17:47.479 --> 1:17:52.280
<v Speaker 5>seven even fifteen years, have more energy, and I feel

1:17:52.280 --> 1:17:55.559
<v Speaker 5>like I knew most of the things that I know now.

1:17:55.760 --> 1:17:58.160
<v Speaker 5>I just have a little more confidence now because I'm older.

1:17:58.400 --> 1:18:01.240
<v Speaker 5>But if I had gotten opportunity unities, because the way

1:18:01.240 --> 1:18:04.080
<v Speaker 5>I see it is, there's a lot of and I

1:18:04.120 --> 1:18:07.439
<v Speaker 5>say this when I talk to young women that feel like, oh,

1:18:07.600 --> 1:18:10.080
<v Speaker 5>we're not ready to be in the if they're at

1:18:10.080 --> 1:18:11.960
<v Speaker 5>North Texas or something, they say, we're not ready to

1:18:11.960 --> 1:18:13.960
<v Speaker 5>be in the one o'clock band. I don't want to

1:18:14.000 --> 1:18:16.200
<v Speaker 5>get the opportunity to play in the one o'clock band

1:18:16.200 --> 1:18:19.960
<v Speaker 5>when I'm really two o'clock band material, you know, And

1:18:20.000 --> 1:18:22.040
<v Speaker 5>I'm like, wait a minute. There's a lot of marginal

1:18:22.120 --> 1:18:25.479
<v Speaker 5>white men that have hot have these opportunities, you know,

1:18:25.680 --> 1:18:29.000
<v Speaker 5>like that weren't ready and why do we have to

1:18:29.040 --> 1:18:31.360
<v Speaker 5>be like three times, Oh we have to be super dope.

1:18:31.400 --> 1:18:34.639
<v Speaker 6>No, that's just the program that way, right, like right, So.

1:18:34.680 --> 1:18:38.360
<v Speaker 5>That's what I resent. I resent not having some opportunities

1:18:38.680 --> 1:18:41.240
<v Speaker 5>when I was in my thirties and forties when I

1:18:41.240 --> 1:18:44.519
<v Speaker 5>really had the energy. But now I'm you know, I'm

1:18:44.600 --> 1:18:49.599
<v Speaker 5>burning a candle. I mean writing, you know, projects, writing words,

1:18:49.680 --> 1:18:52.320
<v Speaker 5>you know, like I'm writing the children's book, I'm doing

1:18:52.320 --> 1:18:55.560
<v Speaker 5>some film for an exhibition.

1:18:56.720 --> 1:18:59.679
<v Speaker 7>As anybody approach you about a something about your life

1:19:00.040 --> 1:19:03.680
<v Speaker 7>because there is no one about you. There's nobody like

1:19:03.760 --> 1:19:05.360
<v Speaker 7>you in the world, Like it's.

1:19:05.200 --> 1:19:08.760
<v Speaker 5>Just nobody's nobody's approached me yet about that.

1:19:09.080 --> 1:19:09.719
<v Speaker 4>No memoir.

1:19:10.720 --> 1:19:13.360
<v Speaker 5>No, I'm just trying to get my dad. He's gonna

1:19:13.360 --> 1:19:15.439
<v Speaker 5>like start because he has a better memory than me

1:19:15.720 --> 1:19:17.679
<v Speaker 5>and he's eighty four.

1:19:18.040 --> 1:19:19.519
<v Speaker 4>Interview your dad right now.

1:19:19.720 --> 1:19:22.639
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, what I'm doing I'm currently in Yeah, I'm sorry,

1:19:22.760 --> 1:19:25.880
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to interview my mom. Like just I think

1:19:26.439 --> 1:19:31.559
<v Speaker 3>generally like everyone should just interview their elders and get

1:19:31.600 --> 1:19:36.200
<v Speaker 3>all the stories out so that way that they're they're preserved,

1:19:36.439 --> 1:19:36.720
<v Speaker 3>you know.

1:19:36.640 --> 1:19:38.800
<v Speaker 5>And I also want to say to you too, I

1:19:38.960 --> 1:19:42.280
<v Speaker 5>use I tried to you might not hear the inspiration,

1:19:42.680 --> 1:19:46.160
<v Speaker 5>but break you off. You know that end drum thing right,

1:19:46.520 --> 1:19:48.400
<v Speaker 5>break you off, so like I have an end drump

1:19:48.400 --> 1:19:51.240
<v Speaker 5>thing on a tune of mine on the second Mosaic

1:19:52.520 --> 1:19:56.559
<v Speaker 5>Utrich Russian song when I found you, so that was

1:19:56.680 --> 1:20:00.280
<v Speaker 5>like your inspiration. I'm going to break you off is

1:20:00.479 --> 1:20:03.640
<v Speaker 5>what made me write that section at the end. But

1:20:03.680 --> 1:20:06.400
<v Speaker 5>this is in fifteen, but I think it's fifteen. But

1:20:07.160 --> 1:20:09.160
<v Speaker 5>if you check it out, I don't know, you know,

1:20:09.400 --> 1:20:11.680
<v Speaker 5>I said once the Wayne Shorter, I wrote this, you

1:20:12.120 --> 1:20:16.320
<v Speaker 5>were my inspiration. He was like, oh yeah, wow.

1:20:17.520 --> 1:20:21.040
<v Speaker 7>We should have asked when we ever see y'all on

1:20:21.080 --> 1:20:24.320
<v Speaker 7>a stage together on we Never damn should have asked

1:20:24.320 --> 1:20:26.200
<v Speaker 7>that question because y'all never been on a stage together.

1:20:28.000 --> 1:20:28.679
<v Speaker 5>Never too late.

1:20:29.680 --> 1:20:31.800
<v Speaker 4>Now now, now's the time before.

1:20:31.600 --> 1:20:34.240
<v Speaker 6>I'm gonna tell Christian. I'm gonna tell Christian make it happen.

1:20:34.880 --> 1:20:35.400
<v Speaker 4>Here you go.

1:20:36.280 --> 1:20:39.519
<v Speaker 3>This is long overdue. I thank you so much for

1:20:39.600 --> 1:20:41.639
<v Speaker 3>coming on that show. You got to come back because

1:20:41.840 --> 1:20:45.080
<v Speaker 3>I've skipped so many, so many questions I had about

1:20:45.080 --> 1:20:46.840
<v Speaker 3>your career that I've skipped.

1:20:48.240 --> 1:20:52.440
<v Speaker 2>Because about your fuller Lester Bowie, Diana Cross.

1:20:53.840 --> 1:21:00.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Jimmy jam episode, sure you like. Terry's actually like

1:21:00.800 --> 1:21:05.800
<v Speaker 3>a four hour episode on the real So I'm at

1:21:05.800 --> 1:21:07.719
<v Speaker 3>my day Jo sneaking on my lunch break.

1:21:08.439 --> 1:21:13.560
<v Speaker 7>Thank you for existing, Terry, Thank you, thank you.

1:21:12.680 --> 1:21:13.800
<v Speaker 4>No, that's real like you.

1:21:14.000 --> 1:21:19.320
<v Speaker 3>You know, I saw you drumming mad early and you

1:21:19.360 --> 1:21:22.400
<v Speaker 3>know you were You were the first kid that I

1:21:22.439 --> 1:21:23.160
<v Speaker 3>saw doing.

1:21:23.000 --> 1:21:24.360
<v Speaker 4>What I wanted to do for a living. That was

1:21:24.400 --> 1:21:25.320
<v Speaker 4>that was really inspiration.

1:21:25.720 --> 1:21:28.920
<v Speaker 5>See and thank you pretty wild. I never would have

1:21:29.160 --> 1:21:34.679
<v Speaker 5>imagined that. And really that makes me feel really good.

1:21:35.000 --> 1:21:35.720
<v Speaker 4>Thank you so much.

1:21:36.240 --> 1:21:36.639
<v Speaker 5>Alone.

1:21:37.360 --> 1:21:42.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well on behalf of like Sugar Steve, Unpaid Bill

1:21:42.240 --> 1:21:43.040
<v Speaker 3>and font Tickeolo.

1:21:43.160 --> 1:21:45.240
<v Speaker 4>This is Quest Love and we will see you on

1:21:45.320 --> 1:21:47.880
<v Speaker 4>the next go round on the next episode of Quest Supreme.

1:21:48.600 --> 1:22:00.559
<v Speaker 1>Piece we'st Love Supreme is a production of iHeart New Radio.

1:22:04.640 --> 1:22:09.160
<v Speaker 3>For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1:22:09.520 --> 1:22:11.200
<v Speaker 3>or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.