Speaker 1: Welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff with Margaret Piljoy,
Speaker 1: a podcast that's about cool people who did cool stuff.
Speaker 1: Our guest today is Max Collins. Max, how are you doing?
Speaker 1: You wanna about yourself at all? What's going on? I'm
Speaker 1: doing great. Thank you, it's good to be here. I
Speaker 1: was going to say on this day. That is definitely
Speaker 1: a different day. I think everything this podcast knows that
Speaker 1: we recorded in two takes one good. Yeah. So so
Speaker 1: Max Collins our guests in the nineties, he actually did
Speaker 1: an anthropological field study on one hit wonders in the
Speaker 1: rock world. That's right. Everything where you're saying right now
Speaker 1: is absolutely on, equivocally, verifiably true. Yeah, exactly, Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So today we're talking about one hit wonder Chumbawamba, and
Speaker 1: if you haven't listened to part one, what is wrong
Speaker 1: with you? Did something go wrong with your life? Why
Speaker 1: do you make the choices that you make? So go
Speaker 1: listen to that. Okay. So around the early nineties, life
Speaker 1: starts chan changing. For Chambawamba. It stays egalitarian, but it
Speaker 1: goes from this like loose chaotic thing into something more
Speaker 1: like a workers cooperative. They start having tons of meetings
Speaker 1: by one account, they spend more times and meetings than
Speaker 1: in practice. There's like eight or nine of them at
Speaker 1: this point, and most of them move out of the
Speaker 1: squad but stay in the band and stay activists, and
Speaker 1: they just want to do other things with their lives
Speaker 1: and more and more they're alto like having families and
Speaker 1: ship right and sometimes maybe obviously some of them having
Speaker 1: kids in the squad, but I could imagine not being
Speaker 1: like this is where I want to raise my children.
Speaker 1: I don't know, whatever. And and one of the cooler
Speaker 1: things about them is as they start doing this, they
Speaker 1: don't go off the h ones behind the music, like
Speaker 1: they keep not exploding. Some of them did drugs, some
Speaker 1: of them were sober. They date within the band, they
Speaker 1: get one of them dumps one of them to go
Speaker 1: date the other bandmate, and everyone stays good with each
Speaker 1: other more or less, like I don't know. They feel
Speaker 1: like they kind of like did hedonism right, at least
Speaker 1: as it's presented in their self mythologizing right parties and
Speaker 1: raves and shows and everything. But there they're not doing
Speaker 1: the like trash the hotel room, drop penises, sexually assault fans,
Speaker 1: thing and so, and they're basically at this point trying
Speaker 1: to make it as no longer young musicians. They're trying
Speaker 1: to be like this is So they sit down and
Speaker 1: they have what the funk are we doing? Meeting, like
Speaker 1: a conversation ten years into the band, and they're like,
Speaker 1: all right, let's fucking do this thing, like let's double
Speaker 1: or nothing, let's um you know. They they quit their
Speaker 1: jobs to do it full time, which means that they
Speaker 1: needed to pay their employees, which was themselves, and also
Speaker 1: other people are helping them out, and so commercial considerations
Speaker 1: start having to be balanced alongside musical and political considerations
Speaker 1: as they make this music and they release Anarchy is
Speaker 1: the name of an album and the cover of which
Speaker 1: features the photo of a child being born, which is
Speaker 1: from a book for children about where babies came from.
Speaker 1: But this is obviously like their whole point is like
Speaker 1: you're all going to call this pornographic, aren't you, And
Speaker 1: it did. It's called pornographic. Stories refused to sell it.
Speaker 1: They keep it in brown bags because you can see
Speaker 1: a vagina in it or whatever. It's my favorite of
Speaker 1: their albums, um and it's the first time that they
Speaker 1: crack the very bottom of the mainstream charts, and it
Speaker 1: has the song if you haven't if you've never listened
Speaker 1: to Chumba Womba song besides Tumpa Plumping, or even if
Speaker 1: you haven't heard that, go listen to Homophobia by Chumbawemba.
Speaker 1: So they start getting to play larger and larger shows
Speaker 1: right there as they start taking this band really seriously.
Speaker 1: Ten years in, they tour more of the world, and
Speaker 1: the press fucking hates them. They're like, you're washed up,
Speaker 1: bad musicians. You're all too old. You scream about politics,
Speaker 1: but you don't even believe any of it. You're or
Speaker 1: like they're all like you're two woke, you're ruining the
Speaker 1: music whatever. And the fans love them. They sell out
Speaker 1: shows left and right. Uh, and the press goes between
Speaker 1: ignoring them and hating them, which is like this is
Speaker 1: just like literally how to see see that's a cult
Speaker 1: band as first, and they're not super famous yet, they're
Speaker 1: not tub thumping famous yet, but they're sharing a stage
Speaker 1: of smashing pumpkins in Germany at some big televised event,
Speaker 1: and smashing pumpkins is apparently being real assholes about it,
Speaker 1: at least as related in Boff Whale's book and so they,
Speaker 1: like all the other bands have to like hide in
Speaker 1: their dressing rooms with the doors closed and they can't
Speaker 1: be in the corridors when Billy Corgan comes through or something.
Speaker 1: And this is still prey yeah yeah, so they're like
Speaker 1: not seeing as Smashing Pumpkins as peer yet, but they're
Speaker 1: big enough to be at this televised event. And so
Speaker 1: Dan one of the people in Humble one, but he
Speaker 1: likes being naked, like constantly, He's stripping on stage for
Speaker 1: the funk of it. And the band is like, what
Speaker 1: are we gonna do to prank these assholes? That's like
Speaker 1: what we gotta do. That's our thing, you know, I know, Dan,
Speaker 1: take off all your clothes. So Dan gets naked. They
Speaker 1: write they were punk and huge letters across his chest.
Speaker 1: He strolls out on stage just a smashing bomb gets
Speaker 1: it's their big finale, you know. He walks up to
Speaker 1: Billy and he salutes the crowd naked, and then he
Speaker 1: walks off and the rest of the band is to
Speaker 1: physically rescue him from pouncers and that they fled the
Speaker 1: scene as like they're being chased, and the promoters like,
Speaker 1: you'll never appear on German television again which probably didn't
Speaker 1: turn out to be true incredible and yeah, I know,
Speaker 1: I love it, I love it. Um. Also, they turn
Speaker 1: in an album called tub Thump into their label, which
Speaker 1: is a label called One Little Indian, which was not
Speaker 1: a great name for a label, and just to be clear,
Speaker 1: the label realized that and in they changed their name
Speaker 1: to One Little Independent. Chamba Womba turns in this album
Speaker 1: to them and the labels like, no, this sucks, go
Speaker 1: home and write better songs. No good onward. And then
Speaker 1: E m I Germany, a major label, was like, well,
Speaker 1: we'll give you a hundred thousand fake europe money for it,
Speaker 1: maybe pound, maybe euros, I don't know, one of the
Speaker 1: fake moneys that they have over there. And at first
Speaker 1: they laugh it off right there, like no way when
Speaker 1: we do that, obviously, and then they kind of sit
Speaker 1: on it and they're like, we're so fucking broke, and
Speaker 1: that is enough money that even if the album doesn't
Speaker 1: sell at all, we can still pay everyone involved a
Speaker 1: decent wage, you know. They to be clear, Chumbawemba had
Speaker 1: put a song out on an anti em I compilation
Speaker 1: about ten years earlier. The compilations called Funck E M
Speaker 1: I at at the time e m I was was
Speaker 1: deep in the nuclear arms industry. E m I had
Speaker 1: since divested from that, but still it wasn't It clearly
Speaker 1: wasn't good optics, and they weren't sure, but they I
Speaker 1: think what happened is that they they were sure it
Speaker 1: wasn't good optics to the punk scene. What they were
Speaker 1: trying to figure out was whether or not it was
Speaker 1: good ethics, and they wanted to make their decision based
Speaker 1: on that. So they talk it over as a collective,
Speaker 1: like they do everything. They don't vote about major decisions.
Speaker 1: They work for consensus, and they talk it over for weeks.
Speaker 1: They are like, look, the symbolism is bad, but change
Speaker 1: for change's sake is sometimes good. They were stagnating, and
Speaker 1: they were like, fuck stagnating, that's what we don't want
Speaker 1: to do. It's more of a chance to reach more people.
Speaker 1: Saying fuck you to a scene that was getting way
Speaker 1: too essentially conservative from their point of view, seemed fun
Speaker 1: to them. Being able to pay themselves enough to not
Speaker 1: worry for a while. Like they're all working class folks, right,
Speaker 1: and they're proceeding in middle age without much of a
Speaker 1: safety net. Because they all were squatter punks and and
Speaker 1: they're like fans like Fugazi can get away with being
Speaker 1: fiercely independent because they're just big enough and sell enough records. Right,
Speaker 1: Chamba Womba wasn't selling that kind of those kinds of numbers,
Speaker 1: and but fear of what people would think was a
Speaker 1: big part of it. A few years earlier in Poland,
Speaker 1: some American punk had taken it upon himself to like
Speaker 1: slash their tour van tires because he was mad about
Speaker 1: how much the band was charging for the show. Punks
Speaker 1: can be sort of yeah, yeah, And one of one
Speaker 1: of the things that they thought about a lot they
Speaker 1: you know, the most convincing argument to some of them,
Speaker 1: and I actually think maybe the most convincing argument to
Speaker 1: me is they're like, look are independent labels are also
Speaker 1: just all about the money. They are also fucking us over.
Speaker 1: They're also greedy, we might as well get paid well.
Speaker 1: Alice Nutter puts it in an interview of The Punk
Speaker 1: magazine later, my reasoning for doing it isn't how we're
Speaker 1: going to get our message across to more people. It's
Speaker 1: nothing to do with that. It's because my experiences with
Speaker 1: one little Indian in the music industry have me convinced
Speaker 1: that they're all the fucking same. They're small businessmen and
Speaker 1: big business men, and they've they have a different agenda
Speaker 1: to us. There's no good or bad capitalism. It's kind
Speaker 1: of what they hit upon. They do it, and which
Speaker 1: brings us to probably the only song by them that
Speaker 1: most of the people listening to this podcast have actually heard,
Speaker 1: stub thumping about falling down and standing up and about drinking.
Speaker 1: I literally don't know. I didn't actually ask Sophie what
Speaker 1: I'm allowed to do in terms of quoting song lyrics.
Speaker 1: So that's why I keep tea speaking about it. Very verge.
Speaker 1: Sophie says, yes, I can claim that I wrote the
Speaker 1: song and that it is legally my property. That is
Speaker 1: what Sophie is nodding and saying, yes right now. So
Speaker 1: I wrote the song tub Thumping, and when I did, okay, So,
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna quote Boff Walley about this song. Tub
Speaker 1: Thumping from its very outset as an idea, was definitely
Speaker 1: populist and based on working class experience. That's working class
Speaker 1: not just as a mythic Trotskyist vision, but as a
Speaker 1: cultural and historic whole which includes family and sport and
Speaker 1: community and war and love and entertainment, not just the
Speaker 1: cliche clenched fist getting up, but the getting knocked down
Speaker 1: as well. Tub Thumping became known to some purely as
Speaker 1: a drinking song, which is fair enough because of nothing else.
Speaker 1: It didn't belong to an elite group of musicians. It
Speaker 1: belonged to people, people at football matches, people singing along
Speaker 1: to the radio as they drove, people at parties, drinking
Speaker 1: too much whiskey and tripping over the kitchen chairs, people
Speaker 1: like me. And because it helped beggar the notion that
Speaker 1: Chumba Womba were boring zealots from planet anarchy. And that's
Speaker 1: not what I realized when I heard it when I
Speaker 1: was in the nineties and like driving around and like,
Speaker 1: but but I think it's cool that they don't try
Speaker 1: to shoe that interpretation because it is a drinking song,
Speaker 1: you know, it's but it works on a couple of
Speaker 1: different levels. But um, it is a drinking song insofar
Speaker 1: as like, you know you're drinking with your mates, and
Speaker 1: that there's community there, and there's solidarity there, and and
Speaker 1: there's you know, commiseration for the getting knocked down, you know,
Speaker 1: parts of life there, which is punk as fuck. It
Speaker 1: is punk as fucked, like put your arms around all
Speaker 1: your friends and drunkenly sing songs like whatever. The song
Speaker 1: you know, like yeah, like yeah, um, it's collective, it's
Speaker 1: it's yeah. It's a kind of a spiritual experience, you know, yeah, totally,
Speaker 1: and it's one that we have like increasingly stripped away
Speaker 1: from us up by modern life. And apparently one of
Speaker 1: the main inspirations of the song was watching a drunk
Speaker 1: irish guy stumbling home from a bar singing Danny Boy
Speaker 1: and being told to shut up by a neighbor. So
Speaker 1: and the song goes fucking huge. And again, if you
Speaker 1: were live in the nineties, you probably remember this. It's
Speaker 1: number two in the UK, it's number six in the US,
Speaker 1: It's in the charts everywhere in the world. It gets
Speaker 1: ranked on lists of like the twenty most annoying songs
Speaker 1: of all time. Yeah, I mean there's a distinction to
Speaker 1: be made there between between like a hit song and
Speaker 1: like a global smash like that song was like, you know,
Speaker 1: number one on alternative rock radio or whatever, but also
Speaker 1: pop radio, and also not just in the US, but
Speaker 1: like yeah, you know, everywhere. It was just one of those,
Speaker 1: you know, hyper ubiquitous, so that you could not escape
Speaker 1: no matter where you were, no matter what you're where
Speaker 1: your tastes, what genres your tastes went through or whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because it's also kind of a genre list song. Like
Speaker 1: on its face, you know, it has like I think
Speaker 1: electronic drums and just this catchy sing along chorus and
Speaker 1: like it's just and it's like, yeah, it's almost like
Speaker 1: like a collective delusion, you know, this thing that just
Speaker 1: like absorbed everyone for a moment, you know, and yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's fucking interesting. It's like in a way,
Speaker 1: it's like it was it was a troll sort of,
Speaker 1: but it also wasn't a cynical one. They were they
Speaker 1: weren't looking down on the people enjoying it for whatever
Speaker 1: surface reasons. There was no contempt there um, but it
Speaker 1: was this thing that functioned on a couple of different levels. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's so fucking like it's just brilliant. It's us So
Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's it's a prank, but it's not a prank,
Speaker 1: you know. It's this earnest thing they did that got
Speaker 1: injected into pop culture and sucking and a lot of
Speaker 1: their old fans write them letters calling them sellouts. But
Speaker 1: the people who really lad the charge of calling them
Speaker 1: hypocrites were the same music journalists who had always hated
Speaker 1: them because they're like, ah see, we told you their
Speaker 1: politics didn't mean anything, which was their way of basically
Speaker 1: excusing themselves for never having had decent politics in the
Speaker 1: first which is a really dubious way to sort of yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, truffle hunt for what seems like hypocrisy, but
Speaker 1: if you scratch the service at all, you realize really isn't.
Speaker 1: It's a collective who wants to take be able to
Speaker 1: take care of their own and as we'll find soon
Speaker 1: enough in the story, um take care of others as well,
Speaker 1: and do that by siphoning corporate money. And yeah, like
Speaker 1: you know, doing Robin hood ship. Really yeah, totally totally
Speaker 1: And and it's funny is to look at like if
Speaker 1: I had been I, you know, I was a salty
Speaker 1: subcultural but not like a punk yet right at the
Speaker 1: time of all of this, if I had been like
Speaker 1: if it had happened in two thousands three, I probably
Speaker 1: would have been one of the people being like, you
Speaker 1: fucking sellouts, right, But I'm glad that I don't um,
Speaker 1: you know, like twenty one year old me is not
Speaker 1: who I look back to about what decisions were best
Speaker 1: to make for my life. You know, I'm stuck with
Speaker 1: some of the tattoos, but that's okay. Yeah. So they
Speaker 1: spent two years, the next two years in this whirlwind
Speaker 1: of fame. It doesn't stop them from being themselves. And
Speaker 1: first and foremost, they gave away just a fun ton
Speaker 1: of money since since all the money gets split equally,
Speaker 1: they didn't like fuss about who did who deserves what
Speaker 1: amount and stuff like that. You know, there were the
Speaker 1: people who are the lead singers of the songs whatever,
Speaker 1: but they're like, we're just split in evenly. We'll work
Speaker 1: from there. And they peer pressure each other out of
Speaker 1: like running out and buying Jaguars. Boff notes that Dan
Speaker 1: went out and bought a really fancy vacuum cleaner, which
Speaker 1: I must be what middle age an artists do. And
Speaker 1: they suddenly have a lot of money. You know, vacuum
Speaker 1: cleaners a very nice thing. And they I get the
Speaker 1: impression that they hold onto enough money to not have
Speaker 1: to like worry about being poor. But they donate money
Speaker 1: to artists, women's groups, prisoner defense campaigns, kids football teams,
Speaker 1: radical media projects, venues, solidarity groups, individual organizers, community groups, magazines,
Speaker 1: direct action groups, and social centers. At one point in
Speaker 1: two thousand two, GM wanted a song for a commercial. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Jumba Womba said yes, and they take took a hundred
Speaker 1: thousand dollars or different accounts give different amounts, but a
Speaker 1: large number of money, high money number hundred thousand will
Speaker 1: go with that. And they just turn around and they
Speaker 1: give half of it to indie media, which is this
Speaker 1: big decentralized you be the media network, and they give
Speaker 1: which is unfortunately kind of probably what prefigured to it
Speaker 1: earned the rest of the night where we living now,
Speaker 1: but it was a good idea at the time. And
Speaker 1: they give the other half to a project called corp
Speaker 1: Watch that is specifically fucking um tracking GM and like
Speaker 1: exposing their crimes. And so they just turn around and
Speaker 1: give fifty to people who are like specifically attacking GM. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And so if the two main arguments that they have
Speaker 1: in favor of selling out are reach a wider audience
Speaker 1: and get fun tons of money, they do both. But
Speaker 1: but I actually I think Alice Nutter was right in
Speaker 1: some ways, the funk tons of money, which seems less
Speaker 1: radical goal, is actually in some ways the more radical
Speaker 1: thing they did, because the wider audience didn't necessarily like
Speaker 1: get it right. Uh. They talk about anarchism on news shows,
Speaker 1: they mostly get made fun of. They sell their music
Speaker 1: to a ton of places, but they turned down other
Speaker 1: places too. They turned down Nike, who offered them a
Speaker 1: million and a half bucks. Their rules were really simple
Speaker 1: and strict. They wouldn't sell their music to anyone involved
Speaker 1: in sweatshop labor or the arms industry. And when I
Speaker 1: first started researching this episode, I thought it was gonna
Speaker 1: be mostly about their their high jinks during the fame period,
Speaker 1: because it's really good hijinks. But in the end, I
Speaker 1: you know, the reason the first half is more about
Speaker 1: the working class punks in the squad breaking laws is
Speaker 1: like what I kind of lingered on. But let's start
Speaker 1: without the hijinks. One time, the tob Thumping era, Dan
Speaker 1: gets arrested in Italy literally for just walking down the
Speaker 1: street wearing a skirt, and he's held in his cell.
Speaker 1: He's a show that night. He gets held in a
Speaker 1: cell with no one speaking to him in English, and
Speaker 1: finally he scrawls I'm in a pop group called Chumbo
Speaker 1: Womba on a piece of paper and helds it up
Speaker 1: to the glass of the cell and they release him
Speaker 1: um and he gets in time to go to the
Speaker 1: sound check. Uh. The next day, he appears on Italian
Speaker 1: TV in the skirt and says Italy has some problems
Speaker 1: with homophobic, macho cop culture. Alice Nutter steps up as
Speaker 1: being the kind of unofficial spokesperson for the band, I
Speaker 1: think mostly because she enjoyed talking the most and had
Speaker 1: the most to say. She was also maybe the most
Speaker 1: firebrand of them. She told the UK Press, nothing can
Speaker 1: change the fact that we like it when cops get killed.
Speaker 1: E m I is like, oh my god, please apologize.
Speaker 1: What the fuck? Oh my god. She didn't apologize and
Speaker 1: said she clarified her statement. If you're working class, they
Speaker 1: won't protect you. When you hear about them, it's in
Speaker 1: the context of them abusing people, you know, miscarriages of justice.
Speaker 1: We don't have a party when cops die, you know,
Speaker 1: we don't. But before we hear about more of Alice
Speaker 1: Nutter's anti capitalist hijinks, boy, we have some capitalist hijinks
Speaker 1: for you, in the form of products and services. Okay,
Speaker 1: and we are back in January. Alice Nutter, she goes
Speaker 1: on the talk show Politically Incorrect, and she says, basically, yeah,
Speaker 1: if you can't afford our music, just go to the
Speaker 1: nearest big, evil, giant chain store like Virgin and steal it.
Speaker 1: Um and Virgin I didn't like this Chambawamba at the
Speaker 1: time as Universal's number one selling band, and here's the
Speaker 1: band saying, just steal it. Who fucking cares as long
Speaker 1: as you steal from a large corporation. Virgin threatens to
Speaker 1: remove the album from their stores. And it depends on
Speaker 1: what account you read. They either stopped carrying it entirely
Speaker 1: or hit it behind the counter. I don't know. And
Speaker 1: this only makes sales go up, which doesn't fucking surprise me, right,
Speaker 1: Like I could have told them that, Like, yeah, more
Speaker 1: will get stolen. But if people steal the CDs, people
Speaker 1: are gonna listen to it and talk about it, and
Speaker 1: more people are going to go out and sucking buy it. Right.
Speaker 1: And and if you're taking it off the shelves were
Speaker 1: hiding it, you're literally manufacturing scarcity for the thing, and
Speaker 1: by making it more valuable. Yeah, yeah, so everyone wants
Speaker 1: to go out and find it and get it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So anyway, their their contact at Universal called the band
Speaker 1: and was like, well, you all just laugh at me
Speaker 1: if I tell you that Universal wants to ask you
Speaker 1: to apologize for saying all that, Like they're rep knows
Speaker 1: it's a like fool's errand that he's been tasked to
Speaker 1: call them and ask them to apologize. He's like, you're
Speaker 1: not going to do this, are you, And they're like
Speaker 1: ha ha ha Nope. And later Alice Nutters, in a
Speaker 1: recollection says, why should I apologize? I wasn't sorry, which
Speaker 1: is exactly how you should or shouldn't apologize when you
Speaker 1: make decisions about apologies. So, and on The David Letterman Show,
Speaker 1: they changed the lyrics of tub thumping to include from
Speaker 1: free mu Mia bou Jamal and Mama bou Jamal for
Speaker 1: anyone who's not aware. As a a black political prisoner
Speaker 1: who was probably framed up on the murder of a
Speaker 1: cop in Philly and at the very least definitely had
Speaker 1: an unfair trial, he spent a couple of decades on
Speaker 1: death row, which was reduced to life without pearl in
Speaker 1: two thousand one. So Chumbawamba goes on Letterman and sings
Speaker 1: free Muma Bou Jamal and it was prerecorded, so Letterman
Speaker 1: let it happen. In the end, basically they sat down
Speaker 1: like the Letterman Show. People were like, funk, are we
Speaker 1: gonna let this fu happen? And finally the network is
Speaker 1: like all right, fuck it. They run it and they
Speaker 1: talked about anarchism with Barbara Walters. They basically leave a
Speaker 1: trail of chaos that the record labels are running around
Speaker 1: trying to clean up for them. But instead of trash
Speaker 1: hotel rooms, it was just weird ship, you know. And
Speaker 1: the peak of all this was brit Awards, which I
Speaker 1: think are the Grammys for people stuck on entirely tiny
Speaker 1: island without sunshine. My theory is that they actually named
Speaker 1: the country after the award show. Uh it was called
Speaker 1: britt Land, but then with the accents on like Britain,
Speaker 1: and so that's what stuck. Sounds true to me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So I wonder how long I'm gonna get away with
Speaker 1: this bit um so Jumba Womba. They get invited to awards,
Speaker 1: they're even up for an award themselves Best Single, and
Speaker 1: they're they're going to perform. At first, they weren't going
Speaker 1: to perform, but the director he knows their fucking number
Speaker 1: and he's like, all right, you don't want to perform,
Speaker 1: We'll let you have a video behind you. And they're like, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: we're in. We can show propaganda. We are in. And
Speaker 1: the day of the director of the wards he goes
Speaker 1: up to chumble One personally with a plea and he's like, hey,
Speaker 1: could you, um, could you not physically attack any of
Speaker 1: the other artists And that's his big request to them. Chumbawamba.
Speaker 1: It's like, alright, fine, whatever, we won't attack any of
Speaker 1: the other artists physically, And they even technically stuck with that.
Speaker 1: They're not super stoked about it though, and everyone else
Speaker 1: is pissing them off with all being off pop Star
Speaker 1: and ship and I have a feeling that every like
Speaker 1: bands that's played at this level kind of like vaguely
Speaker 1: enjoys talking about bands. But you know they they point
Speaker 1: out in this in the book that like half a
Speaker 1: Fleetwood Mac refuses to use their dressing room because of
Speaker 1: inadequate carpeting. Um, and I don't know it about Fleetwood Mac.
Speaker 1: And I'm taking Boff Whaley's word for it, maybe inadequate carpeting,
Speaker 1: was like maybe like the whole thing was like this,
Speaker 1: like sewage swamp. I don't fucking know, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's easier to imagine, like, ah, those damn rock stars,
Speaker 1: said the one rock star to anyway, whatever, it's more
Speaker 1: fun to imagine too, yeah, exactly. Yeah. Uh. So they
Speaker 1: go up and play and they're all wearing sweatshirts that
Speaker 1: says things like sold out or whatever, and they put
Speaker 1: on a film behind them and it's full of people
Speaker 1: rioting and protesting, and there's act up banners and there's
Speaker 1: the stage is streaming with red and black banners, and
Speaker 1: it's like, it's exactly what I would do if I
Speaker 1: was up for one of these supports. And it's not
Speaker 1: even not necessarily in an original way, but just it's
Speaker 1: it's like you kind of have to if you're if
Speaker 1: you're that band, you know. And at the time, dockers
Speaker 1: in Liverpool had been on strike and it was one
Speaker 1: of the longest labor disputes in British history, and the
Speaker 1: doctors had mostly lost They've been forced into a settlement
Speaker 1: package and they all lost their job and the Labor
Speaker 1: Party was currently branding itself as New Labor, and they
Speaker 1: were culpable for a lot of that. So Chumba womb
Speaker 1: but changed the course of tub thumping to include New Labor.
Speaker 1: Sold out the doctors, just like they'll sell out the
Speaker 1: rest of us, and they even brought some doctors with
Speaker 1: them to the ceremony with the plan that if they win,
Speaker 1: the doctors would go up and accept on their behalf
Speaker 1: and give a speech about what was going on. But
Speaker 1: Chumba Woman didn't win, so they didn't get to do
Speaker 1: the doctors accepting. But after they get off stage, they're like, oh, shoot,
Speaker 1: that's that's John Prescott and he's the Deputy Prime Minister,
Speaker 1: which is the roughly the equivalent of vice president, and
Speaker 1: he's he's from the working class. He used to be
Speaker 1: a member of the same union as the doctors, but
Speaker 1: he basically sold them out. He was blocking tuition bills,
Speaker 1: he was sucking over the unemployed. He was just doing
Speaker 1: all kinds of ship right. So they're sitting around and
Speaker 1: they're like, what the funk are we gonna do. There's
Speaker 1: the Vice president of Britain, which definitely as a vice president,
Speaker 1: and they they look at the bend that had been
Speaker 1: full of all the ice for the Champagne and all
Speaker 1: of that, and they're like, Dan, Alice, you got this,
Speaker 1: And Dan and Alice were like, yes, we do indeed
Speaker 1: have it. So they go up to Prescott. Dan jumps
Speaker 1: on the table, says this is for the Liverpool Dockers
Speaker 1: and dumps a bucket of ice water on John Prescott's head.
Speaker 1: Not to be outdone, Nutter is right there behind him
Speaker 1: with I think an extra bucket of water and also
Speaker 1: just soaks him with that as well. And this is
Speaker 1: like on okay. So so Dan gets arrested and Prescott
Speaker 1: has to be a good sport about it because he's
Speaker 1: like trying to look cool with the kids he's here
Speaker 1: at the brit Awards or whatever. It's really hard to
Speaker 1: imagine the US politician being this cool about especially a
Speaker 1: vice president. I'm like, I'm struggling to imagine the punk
Speaker 1: band that can dump ice water on the vice president
Speaker 1: of the United States and survive. You know, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean we saw the way, was it Juliani? Who
Speaker 1: there was that video of a guy who kind of
Speaker 1: like lightly like gaveh uh hat on the back and
Speaker 1: then talk some ship and he acted like it was
Speaker 1: a soul and yeah, yeah, yeah, But however they managed
Speaker 1: to dump ice water on the fucking deputy prime minister's
Speaker 1: head and and the Deputy Prime Minister of Prescott is like,
Speaker 1: all right, I'm not pressing charges. And so they get
Speaker 1: let go, and the tabloids eat the whole thing up,
Speaker 1: and of course the usual snotty critics get mad. And
Speaker 1: oh and then Ginger Spice from the Spice Girls goes
Speaker 1: up to Prescott to make sure he's okay. They made
Speaker 1: sure to include that part in the in their biography
Speaker 1: or that's really funny, And Alice Nutter later, I think
Speaker 1: it's talking about the entire like arc of Chumba Womba
Speaker 1: and it's like it was all worth it just to
Speaker 1: be able to get at John Prescott, to just to
Speaker 1: get at these people who think they're untouchable. And that's
Speaker 1: the thing that's kind of interesting to me about like
Speaker 1: like people used to pie politicians more often, it feels like,
Speaker 1: and it seems is like the point of that is
Speaker 1: just to say, like, hey, remember you're a person. Yeah
Speaker 1: you know, like this could have been worse, is what
Speaker 1: you're saying when you dump ice water on someone's head.
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, you're a person who's supposed to be
Speaker 1: accountable to us. Yeah, and you clearly aren't, and you
Speaker 1: enjoy this sort of like protected celebrity status, you know, Yeah,
Speaker 1: totally and so okay. So they spent about two years
Speaker 1: on the road doing the celebrity thing, and then they
Speaker 1: take a break and they resume other parts of their
Speaker 1: lives figuring out their next move. And then they put
Speaker 1: out a second album with E m I. UM, which
Speaker 1: is a bit confusing because in their mythologizing UM, I've
Speaker 1: read some of their accounts that are like E M
Speaker 1: I wanted to put out another album, but we said no.
Speaker 1: But I think they did put out another album with
Speaker 1: E M I. Either way, either either em I dumps
Speaker 1: them or they dump E M I and or yeah
Speaker 1: E M I cud have done something where if they
Speaker 1: were under contract for another record or something but didn't
Speaker 1: want to deliver it, where they either I mean, we
Speaker 1: had our record label do that with us, where they
Speaker 1: put out I don't know if it was like live
Speaker 1: stuff for you know, how interesting because you owed them
Speaker 1: an album but they didn't like the wing to tune in. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that that that kind of thing for us. I don't
Speaker 1: remember exactly what the circumstances were, but I could see
Speaker 1: it being something like that where they basically manufactured some
Speaker 1: kind of release out of B sides or whatever. You know,
Speaker 1: are you still technically owned? I think you're not still
Speaker 1: with a major labels? That correct, that's correct. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: got dropped from our c A and like two thousand
Speaker 1: three and we put records out now with with an
Speaker 1: indie label called Velocity, okay, which always seems like kind
Speaker 1: of a cool like after this, and I'll get to
Speaker 1: it in a moment, like Chamber one by kind of
Speaker 1: like goes from major label back to indie. They go
Speaker 1: from indie to major to indie, right, and they're like
Speaker 1: all right, like and it's kind of interesting to me
Speaker 1: to see that as a well, you just do what's
Speaker 1: best in the situation, rather than like, oh no, you're
Speaker 1: a failure because the major label dropped you, or oh no,
Speaker 1: you're a sellout because you know you went to a
Speaker 1: major label at all. I don't know, yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean sort of like judging or making the metric of
Speaker 1: like what is worthwhile about making rock by what type
Speaker 1: of record label you're on or whatever ain't really where
Speaker 1: it's at. I can also see how you know, perception
Speaker 1: is created by like by that kind of story, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, it did feel embarrassing to get dropped from
Speaker 1: a major label for all of those reasons, but then
Speaker 1: you sort of realize, like why why why do you
Speaker 1: feel that way? Right, and that you know this The
Speaker 1: reasons for it are are pretty dubious once you examine
Speaker 1: them a little bit, like what what are you what
Speaker 1: are you making stuff for anyway? Is it too you know,
Speaker 1: appeas you know, the bean counters or whatever because you
Speaker 1: like like to like to make rock because it makes
Speaker 1: you feel free or whatever. Yeah, and like connecting to people,
Speaker 1: like you connect with people in different ways depending on
Speaker 1: what means by which you access them. And it doesn't
Speaker 1: make it better or worse, Like, no, that's interesting, Yeah
Speaker 1: it must have been. You have not been in that position,
Speaker 1: but it must have been like, oh, we've we've hit
Speaker 1: our crest and now we are coming down from it,
Speaker 1: as compared to like, well now you got this like
Speaker 1: boost of um attention and now you're able to do
Speaker 1: things with that, you know. Yeah, total, it's all in
Speaker 1: how you sort of frame your your perspective toward it.
Speaker 1: Like I mean, in our case, we did need to
Speaker 1: like break up for a host of reasons, um, and
Speaker 1: we did for a few years, and only recently, in
Speaker 1: the last couple of years have we started doing this
Speaker 1: new iteration of the band that, like I said, is
Speaker 1: sort of in practice a side project. But we just
Speaker 1: still call it Eve six um. But yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: we're doing it for for the right reasons. And I
Speaker 1: think a band like Trumbawamba was always doing it for
Speaker 1: the right reasons, you know. Yeah, And you know who
Speaker 1: else is doing it for the right reasons. It's it's
Speaker 1: a it's the advertisers. We're actually sponsored by this new um,
Speaker 1: this new act on our ci com EVE seven one
Speaker 1: new band. It's very original. Okay, this isn't interesting. I
Speaker 1: hadn't I hadn't heard of this, hadn't heard of this group.
Speaker 1: But um, my first reaction is, I don't know if
Speaker 1: this town is big enough for the two of us. Well,
Speaker 1: they've got this hit, and you know that's the first
Speaker 1: advertisers gonna be this hit. It's called what kind of
Speaker 1: prepositions are they're working with? You put a blender in
Speaker 1: my heart, I believe is that? Okay? Um, it's funny
Speaker 1: because five Seconds of Summer apparently just released a song
Speaker 1: called Blender or like Emotional Blender or something like that.
Speaker 1: I haven't listened to it yet, but yeah, town's only
Speaker 1: big enough for one blender song. That's that's right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm stay away from our kitchen appliants. That is the
Speaker 1: official motto of cool Zone Media. Is that is that correct?
Speaker 1: Sophie is nodding. Um, Sometimes I just say so if
Speaker 1: he's not in when Sophie's actually holding up a sign
Speaker 1: that says stop doing this, You're going to get us
Speaker 1: in trouble. But so if he's yeah, yeah, totally. And
Speaker 1: here's some other products and services including Eve six I
Speaker 1: mean sorry, seven, eight and nine. M h. And we
Speaker 1: are back, okay. So, and we were talking about the
Speaker 1: the at this point, you know, Chumba Womba is in there.
Speaker 1: They they're they've taken a break from the celebrity thing.
Speaker 1: Then they then they come back at making music and
Speaker 1: they keep at it for another fifteen years. Tump Pumping
Speaker 1: is right in the middle of the career of Chumba
Speaker 1: Womba as a band. They start their own label. They
Speaker 1: work with a bunch of different indies, and they put
Speaker 1: out a ton of music, and they continue to accidentally
Speaker 1: show up at the craziest riots in history. Wow, what
Speaker 1: a weird coincidence. And I actually this part actually caught
Speaker 1: me by surprise because I had kind of assumed that,
Speaker 1: like they're in their forties, I think at this point,
Speaker 1: and like they're doing all right, and they're still just like, well,
Speaker 1: there's this riot. I mean, actually it's an accident. There's
Speaker 1: just accidentally in all these things. Um. And I really
Speaker 1: I really appreciate about the their bad timing where they
Speaker 1: keep showing these things and so, and they also fund
Speaker 1: a bunch of direct actions, which I think there's still um,
Speaker 1: I don't want to conjecture too hard about the things
Speaker 1: that they fund. And a bunch of them leave the
Speaker 1: band in two thousand four, and I spent a while
Speaker 1: trying to be like, what did they leave the band about? Right?
Speaker 1: But then I realized that none of them were trying
Speaker 1: to talk about it. There was a little bit of
Speaker 1: like personal and political differences, and they leave it at that, right,
Speaker 1: And and that's cool. It's cool that I don't know
Speaker 1: because they're just like their whole thing seems to be
Speaker 1: like how do we come close to this environment that
Speaker 1: could have made us douchebag rock stars without and so
Speaker 1: they're just like they just worked through it, at least
Speaker 1: somewhat privately, right, Yeah, it sounds like they have loyalty
Speaker 1: to one another and like, yeah, actual friendship. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: it's almost like they you know, repaired a house together
Speaker 1: for ten years before they went on any of this
Speaker 1: crazy you know, and um and even the people who
Speaker 1: left in two thousand four came back for their two
Speaker 1: thousand twelve Fucket were Done Tour. I don't think that
Speaker 1: was the actual name of it, but it might as well.
Speaker 1: And their funcket were Done tour because they basically were like,
Speaker 1: fuck it, we're done, and then they had a tour.
Speaker 1: Um and they still contribute to each other's art to
Speaker 1: this day. They like a bunch of a make movies
Speaker 1: and theater and music and you know, Boff writes books
Speaker 1: about running, Alice writes for tv UH. Bruce is working
Speaker 1: on a documentary about Chumbawemba that's currently on the the
Speaker 1: the circuit where you're not allowed to watch it unless
Speaker 1: you have a that's it. When they broke up, they
Speaker 1: put out a statement, I'm a quote from it, because
Speaker 1: I think they they do a good, pretty good job
Speaker 1: of something up what they were doing. Jumbo Wombo was
Speaker 1: our vehicle for pointing at the Naked Emperor's we're telling
Speaker 1: our version of the truth. It gave us more than
Speaker 1: the joy and love of playing live, writing songs, and
Speaker 1: singing together. It gave us a chance to be part
Speaker 1: of a broad coalition of activists and Hector's optimists and questioners.
Speaker 1: But eventually the rest of our lives got in the way,
Speaker 1: and we couldn't commit the time and enthusiasm that the
Speaker 1: band demanded, couldn't keep up with whatever responsibilities came with
Speaker 1: a band like this. If there were ever a chumble
Speaker 1: One manifesto, it would read in the inconsistent, contradictory language
Speaker 1: of the dataists, parts strident belligerents, and part foolishness. This
Speaker 1: ending is no different. It comes almost as much of
Speaker 1: a surprise to us as it may do to you.
Speaker 1: Always more clown than politician, the band trips over its
Speaker 1: outsize feet and performs its final tumble. There have been
Speaker 1: squabbles and arguments along the way, a deal of griping, frustration, moaning, exasperation,
Speaker 1: but always alongside a huge amount of good will and generosity,
Speaker 1: good humor and love. What a riot it's been, frankly,
Speaker 1: and now it's time to clear up the mess and
Speaker 1: move on. And U and Dan, I'm gonna read one
Speaker 1: more quote about from one of them about this Dan
Speaker 1: an interview with band Camp this year. I guess I
Speaker 1: can just say this year, if I'm just talking about
Speaker 1: the year I'm in, I'm very proud of what we
Speaker 1: did the whole way through. We tried to push the envelope,
Speaker 1: were and always successful, but we always tried. And that's
Speaker 1: probably a defining characteristic of Chumbawamba. Whatever era or genre
Speaker 1: we tried, it always had a working class basis, which
Speaker 1: is a whole other story. When we signed with the
Speaker 1: major labels in the mainstream, it didn't destroy us. You
Speaker 1: could accuse us of selling out, but we weren't bought up,
Speaker 1: and I think that's a testament to the way we
Speaker 1: had each other's backs. The mainstream usually swallows people and
Speaker 1: spits them out. I mean it did spit us out,
Speaker 1: but we took it as a compliment. Really there you go. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like what you were saying about, like, it's just
Speaker 1: how you fucking look at it. You know, yep, there
Speaker 1: there like pros or you know, I don't know if
Speaker 1: that last quote quotation was what you know, said to
Speaker 1: a reporter or something like that, but it's it's so
Speaker 1: beautiful and it's like better than their lyrics there their
Speaker 1: own sort of like um yeah, assessment of their story
Speaker 1: is is really deep and just like so on point
Speaker 1: and and includes all of the admittedly seemingly contradictory things
Speaker 1: that that made made up Shamba Womba, this thing that
Speaker 1: was you know, on one level, just like uh vessel
Speaker 1: for entertainment and diversion, and on another you know, straight
Speaker 1: up you know, activism. Yeah, And it's interesting cause I
Speaker 1: was thinking about this as I was writing this out.
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, I'm not really talking about
Speaker 1: their music, right, and like their songs, and I'm not
Speaker 1: talking about like the their instrumentation and like and all
Speaker 1: that stuff really matters, and it clearly mattered to them
Speaker 1: because the whole time they're always like, oh yeah, we
Speaker 1: don't want to play our instruments. They are like musically
Speaker 1: really talented to the point where it's like sort of
Speaker 1: almost annoying. Like their acapella album. I'm like, you all
Speaker 1: these amazing like multiple harmonies and like all this crazy shit,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's it's about all of these things
Speaker 1: at once. It is one of the things that the
Speaker 1: music is an aspect of this thing that UM as
Speaker 1: a whole is like yeah, activist performance art. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: really inspiring, you know. I mean, they they they did
Speaker 1: buck the system, as as he put like, maybe they
Speaker 1: sold out, but they didn't. What's the language he used,
Speaker 1: It spits them out right, But but but they weren't
Speaker 1: bought up. Yeah. Yeah, it's really cool. Yeah, yeah that
Speaker 1: it is really Like this is funny because it's like,
Speaker 1: I know, you're in a band, and I'm in a band,
Speaker 1: and I like, doesn't it make you want to start
Speaker 1: a band or like makes you want to be in
Speaker 1: a band? You know, Like, yeah, I'm writing right now. Um,
Speaker 1: I've been in a bunch of bands that have done
Speaker 1: various things, and right now, I like signed to my
Speaker 1: first indie label with my metal band, and we have
Speaker 1: an album Do Soon, right and it's our second full
Speaker 1: length of the band. And I'm like, oh, I should
Speaker 1: really care about that, you know, in a way where
Speaker 1: I'm like I care about it. And I've been working
Speaker 1: with this band for years, but I'm like, I don't
Speaker 1: know it. No, it's inspiring, yeah, it uh, you know,
Speaker 1: trains your your eyes back on like what's important? Yeah,
Speaker 1: fun joyful about about a project and you know, exposes
Speaker 1: all the things that aren't, all the metrics that are
Speaker 1: seemingly important and the matter and all of that ship
Speaker 1: which don't ultimately, Yeah, and the way in which they
Speaker 1: matter is the vehicle with which to do it. Like
Speaker 1: the thing that you know, getting the money to make
Speaker 1: the music allows them to make the music. That is
Speaker 1: the the part of that that matters, you know. It's
Speaker 1: just the ability to continue to allow to continue to happen, Right,
Speaker 1: That's the end. It's not it's not you know, to
Speaker 1: make yourself obscenely wealthy or you know, fame or whatever
Speaker 1: whatever else. It's like how that in their case, how
Speaker 1: that served their their project totally, and both as individuals
Speaker 1: and as activists and as artists like the music that
Speaker 1: they make, how how it matters for its own sake
Speaker 1: and like m hm and so they actually they released
Speaker 1: one album after they broke up, because the very last
Speaker 1: release came in the year after they broke up, and
Speaker 1: because in two thousand five, they recorded an EP called
Speaker 1: in Memoria Margaret Thatcher, and they were like, this would
Speaker 1: be released when Margaret Thatcher dies, and so in Margaret
Speaker 1: Thatcher did that did the world that that favor? And
Speaker 1: went ahead and died and the EP came out along
Speaker 1: with a statement, our deepest sympathies go out to the
Speaker 1: families of all Margaret Thatcher's victims. And it's a very
Speaker 1: happy little album. Amazing and so okay, so this is
Speaker 1: and so thanks for coming along for my episode that
Speaker 1: I totally didn't write in order to get myself off
Speaker 1: the hook for taking corporate money, giant faceless corporation around
Speaker 1: a podcast but radical history. Now you all know my
Speaker 1: secret is that we're telling you about. But I I look,
Speaker 1: I think the analogy works. Yeah, you know, yeah, I
Speaker 1: think I think they might, you know, tip their their bowlers,
Speaker 1: I hope. So if you're listening Jumba Womba, yeah all right,
Speaker 1: well well uh yeah, what what can people you say?
Speaker 1: You're in a band? What what is that band? What
Speaker 1: do you? You're the band that ripped off Eve seven?
Speaker 1: I think right, yeah, look, um, there's there's a bunch
Speaker 1: of you know, vicious like um rumors going out going
Speaker 1: around that have no footpold in the truth. Um, Eve
Speaker 1: six came before Eve seven, and Eve seven has been like,
Speaker 1: you know, biting our vibe, you know, agreed to egregiously
Speaker 1: and and and you know, anyone who's got their ear
Speaker 1: to the ground, Margaret has heard of Eve six, this
Speaker 1: quiet band that yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, okay, and it
Speaker 1: it does chronologically six does come before you? Could you
Speaker 1: could use that six comes before seven? Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I actually here it's afraid of seven because nine that
Speaker 1: that that's right, see and that's that too, is true.
Speaker 1: So that was despicable. If the lizarders could only see
Speaker 1: how happy she was while making that terrible joke, that
Speaker 1: they would be, they would be truly dismayed. Yeah, truly
Speaker 1: the worst. I lost all of my my goth points
Speaker 1: went out the river river. Yeah, my out the window
Speaker 1: and down the river. Okay. Well um yeah, so so
Speaker 1: what what do you have going on? You play shows
Speaker 1: or like, how can people check out? Maybe have a
Speaker 1: new album out coming out? Maybe it's even out by
Speaker 1: the time people listen, because this will come out about
Speaker 1: a month after we record it. Yeah it might be.
Speaker 1: I have no idea when our album comes out. I
Speaker 1: don't know, it comes out in like a few weeks.
Speaker 1: I think I should know this, but it's called hyper relativisation.
Speaker 1: If you follow us on Twitter at EVE six, you'll
Speaker 1: you'll hear about all of that stuff. That's the only
Speaker 1: thing you talked about on Twitter. As I recall, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's That's all I talked about on on Twitter.
Speaker 1: Is just just you know, we just do band promo
Speaker 1: on there. It's a very typical nineties band account where
Speaker 1: we just like post photos of ourselves with with wallet chains, um,
Speaker 1: you know, doing the devil horns and saying come out
Speaker 1: to our show, the rib Fest and you know, and Tulsa.
Speaker 1: That's that's what That's the kind of content that you're
Speaker 1: going to find that our on our Twitter. Okay, cool?
Speaker 1: Do you still have the pants um which the ones
Speaker 1: that you cut slits in the side to make wider
Speaker 1: say shoes? No, I I wish people changed, I know,
Speaker 1: I know, Um yeah, those were so cool. Like when
Speaker 1: I see pictures of us from from back in the day,
Speaker 1: it's just really funny because none of us have feet. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I used to. I used to chain when my when
Speaker 1: my pants would ripped on the side I would chain
Speaker 1: the whole between the two sides of it, make chain man. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's pretty tough. Yeah, yeah, that's what people saw. They
Speaker 1: saw me coming and we're like, well, that girl is tough.
Speaker 1: That That was absolutely the vibe I managed to communicate
Speaker 1: when I was a goth girl didn't know she was
Speaker 1: a girl in the nineties. Yeah, okay, Well, um, Sophie,
Speaker 1: do you have anything you'd like to plug just at
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media on Twitter and Instagram for all things Margaret.
Speaker 1: And you have a book coming out, correct, I do,
Speaker 1: but I should pitch my band. I have a band
Speaker 1: called Feminale School, where a feminist, atmospheric black metal band. Uh.
Speaker 1: And we have a bunch of different releases, mostly on
Speaker 1: band camp or through various labels. And then also eventually
Speaker 1: we'll have a full length again we already have one, uh,
Speaker 1: but it's not up for pre order right now, unlike
Speaker 1: my book We Won't Be Here Tomorrow, in which I
Speaker 1: name every short story things that sound like they would
Speaker 1: be black metal album titles like The Devil Lives Here
Speaker 1: and Into the Gray and you know, very dramatic things,
Speaker 1: very dramatic person um. And that is okay. So my
Speaker 1: book is available for pre order, you can get an
Speaker 1: a k press and if you get it you get
Speaker 1: a little postcard of art. That is nice part we
Speaker 1: love that. And and we'll be back what next week Monday,
Speaker 1: I believe so cool every Monday and Wednesday. Great, I'll
Speaker 1: see you there, all right, Thank you both so much
Speaker 1: for having me on. This has been really fun. Thank
Speaker 1: you cool people who did. Cool Stuff is a production
Speaker 1: of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media,
Speaker 1: visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check
Speaker 1: us out on the i Heeart radio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.