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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace a stunning and bizarre twist.

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Speaker 1: Hollywood star Alec Baldwin announcing a new reality show with

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Speaker 1: his family of nine, promising it will be full of love,

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Speaker 1: laughter and family highjinks. This as his manslaughter trial looms

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Speaker 1: after he shoots a young mom dead on a movie set,

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Speaker 1: say police, who won't have a reality show? Helena Hutchins,

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Speaker 1: the young mom now dead, her only child, the little

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Speaker 1: boy so traumatized after learning his mom is dead, he

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Speaker 1: could not speak, He couldn't speak utter a word for days.

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Speaker 1: Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 3: We have an announcement to me, not.

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Speaker 1: This show.

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Speaker 4: We're inviting you to experience the ups and down, the.

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Speaker 5: Crazy we are.

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Speaker 6: I'm coming to TLC.

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Speaker 1: I'm very rarely without a I'm very rarely at a

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Speaker 1: loss for words. But just you know what, take a

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Speaker 1: listen to our cut twenty one.

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Speaker 7: And when I got through to the doctor and spoke

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Speaker 7: with him and he detailed exactly what had happened and

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Speaker 7: that she didn't survive, I mean I was I was heartbroken.

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Speaker 1: Guys, you are hearing Hutchins's husband. That's Matt Hutchins speaking

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Speaker 1: to our friends at NBC. When I got through to

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Speaker 1: the doctor and spoke with him, he detailed exactly what

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Speaker 1: had happened and that she did not survive. I was

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Speaker 1: heart broken. Okay, this is what I like to do.

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Speaker 1: Whenever I have a jewry I like to take them

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Speaker 1: back to the moment of the incident if I can,

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Speaker 1: because we can talk about it till we're blue in

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Speaker 1: the face. But nothing can take the place of a

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Speaker 1: nine to one one call. Listen, let me.

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Speaker 8: Try emergency Bonanza Creek Grants. Two people accidentally shot on

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Speaker 8: a movie set by a prop done. We need help immediately,

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Speaker 8: Bonanza Creek Grants. Come on, stay almost phone with me.

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Speaker 8: We're going to get some help. Okay, Okay, what is

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Speaker 8: your name?

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Speaker 6: Don't hang up?

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Speaker 8: Okay, hold on just one second. It sounds like somebody

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Speaker 8: else is calling for better miss. It's good, everybody should be.

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Speaker 8: We need some help of director in our cameraman as

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Speaker 8: camera woman has been shot? Are they going to take

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Speaker 8: them to the roads? So was it loaded with a

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Speaker 8: real bullet or one? I don't I cannot tell you that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, I'm sure that if it were a fake bullet,

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Speaker 1: such as a blank This young mom would be bleeding

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Speaker 1: out on the floor of a movie set after Alec

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Speaker 1: Baldwin pulls a trigger. According to him, he didn't pull

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Speaker 1: the trigger. It went off on its own. I guess

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Speaker 1: whiless in his hand. But the disturbing part right now,

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Speaker 1: in addition to this young mom's death while everybody's standing

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Speaker 1: around trying to figure out what to do and if

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Speaker 1: it was a real bullet, is that Alec Baldwin and

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Speaker 1: his wife and their seven children have now announced a

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Speaker 1: reality show full of love, laughter and family hijinks. Kella

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Speaker 1: Brantley joining me, investigative reporter, Dailymail dot Com. Kella, how

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Speaker 1: many days did her only child go without being able

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Speaker 1: to speak after his mother's death.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Helena Hutchens son was clearly traumatized from the death

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Speaker 3: of his mother. And then you see there her husband

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Speaker 3: talking about the trauma that they also endured. And at

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Speaker 3: the same time you do see Alec Baldwin starting a

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Speaker 3: reality show. It's tentatively called The Baldwins. It's set to

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Speaker 3: come out on TLC in twenty twenty five, so we'll

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Speaker 3: all be looking out for that one.

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Speaker 1: Kilab Brantley joining us from dailymail dot Com. It was

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Speaker 1: actually two days. Two days. The little boy could not

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Speaker 1: speak after hearing the news his mother was dead. You know, Kila,

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Speaker 1: hold on, I'm going to circle back to you. Let

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Speaker 1: me go straight out to doctor John delatorre joining us

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Speaker 1: psychologist mediator specializing and forensic psychology. Doctor Delatory, thank you

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Speaker 1: for being with us. What is that psychological or psychiatric

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Speaker 1: phenomena when you literally cannot speak. I've heard of it,

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Speaker 1: just like I've heard of where people get a horrible shot,

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Speaker 1: their hair turns gray overnight, but you lose the ability

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Speaker 1: to speak. And that's what happened to her little boy

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Speaker 1: when he learns mommy is shot dead on a movie set.

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Speaker 1: She goes to work that morning and bam, never comes home.

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Speaker 1: What is it?

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Speaker 9: It's called selective mutism, Nancy. And honestly, what the kid

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Speaker 9: is experiencing is a trauma response. It's a pretty severe

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Speaker 9: trauma response because of the severity with which he lost

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Speaker 9: his mother.

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Speaker 10: Right.

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Speaker 9: Usually these things can be kind of proportional your response

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Speaker 9: to whatever the trauma is, and sometimes it's just so

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Speaker 9: overwhelming that you can't even process it. You dissociate from

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Speaker 9: the fact that you're even existing in the real world.

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Speaker 9: You regress back into whatever fantasy life or whatever sort

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Speaker 9: of dream like state that you can be in in

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Speaker 9: order to just kind of navigate the hurtful and very

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Speaker 9: vulnerable feelings that you have, especially with the loss of

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Speaker 9: your mother. And there's no way that he really understand

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Speaker 9: did what exactly was that happened?

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Speaker 11: He will when it.

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Speaker 9: As he gets older. He just knows that she's gone

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Speaker 9: and she's never coming back. And that's so overwhelming, even

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Speaker 9: for anyone, especially a little kid.

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Speaker 1: I've actually had crime victims that go into, as doctor

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Speaker 1: John Delatory described, a dream state after trauma. Doctor Delatory,

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Speaker 1: they go back to a time before the murder or

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Speaker 1: the rape or the molestation. But typically they go back

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Speaker 1: in their mind and they live in a dream state

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Speaker 1: where the murder never happened and they're still, for instance,

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Speaker 1: with their family at night for supper and sitting around

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Speaker 1: the TV watching a program together. They actually live in

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Speaker 1: that world, not in the reality of their loved one

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Speaker 1: having been murdered. What is that called, you said, selected mutism?

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Speaker 1: When the little boy can spin for at least two days,

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Speaker 1: what is that when you live in a dream stay

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Speaker 1: you're functioning seemingly normally, but you think your whole family

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Speaker 1: is still alive.

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Speaker 9: Well, this is part of a dissociation, depersonalization, but ultimately

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Speaker 9: what we're talking about is an avoidance. It's almost like,

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Speaker 9: even if you were to walk up to the person

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Speaker 9: and say, hey, you know, you know this thing happened

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Speaker 9: to you, they will say that it didn't. No matter

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Speaker 9: how many years it's long since been. They will never

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Speaker 9: sort of incorporate that trauma into their being. They'll never

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Speaker 9: incorporate it as a memory of any kind, just because

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Speaker 9: the mind can only take so much. There's only so

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Speaker 9: much that you can sort of process as a human being.

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Speaker 9: And the more overwhelming something becomes, the more taxing it

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Speaker 9: becomes on your coping resources, the more likely you are

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Speaker 9: to engage in these kinds of extreme examples of trauma responses.

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Speaker 1: I can only imagine it's worse on a child that

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Speaker 1: already has no coping mechanism at all, doesn't understand what's happening.

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Speaker 1: I mean, at that age, your mum, it's the single

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Speaker 1: most important person in your world. You don't really even

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Speaker 1: know of another world, and then to find out Mommy's

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Speaker 1: dead just like that, Hey, Daryl Cohen is joining me

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Speaker 1: now former felony prosecutor in inner city Atlanta, with me

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Speaker 1: now high profile defense attorney at Cohen Cooper E Stephen Allen, Darryl,

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Speaker 1: before you put on your boxing gloves and start arguing

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Speaker 1: with me about this case, taking Alec Baldwin's side and

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Speaker 1: jumping on the bandwagon of his Realities show, I want

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Speaker 1: to have you cast your mind back to the days

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Speaker 1: when you were prosecuting. You know what I hated, Darryl,

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Speaker 1: As you know, I hated having to put a victim

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Speaker 1: on the stand and make them re live what happened

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Speaker 1: to them, or in the case of a murder, putting

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Speaker 1: a family member on the stand to relive. I hate

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Speaker 1: even doing it on this program. I feel horrible because

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Speaker 1: I know what it feels like being a crime victim

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Speaker 1: and having to testify, for instance. But it's the state's duty.

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Speaker 1: The state has to do it. In other words, you,

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Speaker 1: when you are a prosecutor at ME, you have to

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Speaker 1: put that evidence up. And Daryl, have you ever had

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Speaker 1: a victim. I'm thinking of one girl victim right now.

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Speaker 1: She actually she's about fourteen. She actually put her head

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Speaker 1: down on the witness stand in the middle. Well, really

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of the direct examination. And I mean

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Speaker 1: she had been raped multiple times. It was horrible. But

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Speaker 1: the point is you have to somehow get the victim

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Speaker 1: to speak, and it's horrible. Have you ever experienced that

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Speaker 1: as a prosecutor.

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Speaker 10: I have, Nancy, And as much as I hated to

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Speaker 10: put that victim on the stand, if my victim, such

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Speaker 10: as the one you just mentioned, put her head on

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Speaker 10: the witness stand, and that is the most telling, most

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Speaker 10: compelling testimony ever in front of a jury. It may

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Speaker 10: not be evidence, but it's really what happened, and a

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Speaker 10: jury will hear and see that far more than there

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Speaker 10: will listen to her testimony.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, we're talking about miss Hutchins,

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Speaker 1: Helena Hutchins little boy and for days, days after his

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Speaker 1: mom was shot dead on the set of rust Alec

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Speaker 1: Baldwin's movie, Helena Hutchins's son could not speak with that

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Speaker 1: in mind. Listen, when we have an announcement to meet.

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Speaker 5: I'm having Yeah, this is a show.

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Speaker 4: We're inviting you to his home, experience the ups and

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Speaker 4: downs and.

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Speaker 5: The crazy we are the from coming to TLC again.

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Speaker 1: I see that, and I'm thinking of this seven year

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Speaker 1: old little boy without his mother, not able to speak,

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Speaker 1: and I'm actually speeciless. I mean, what are they planning

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Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen for the whole family as part of the

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Speaker 1: is it TLC? Reality series to go visit Daddy behind bars?

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Speaker 1: Because that's where he's going. How's that going to be

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Speaker 1: on TLC? That's full of hijinks and love and laughter.

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Speaker 1: You're confusing I'm not confusing anything.

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Speaker 10: You're completely confusing it.

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Speaker 8: Now.

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Speaker 10: Let me tell you, I am probably the only person

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Speaker 10: on your show that has ever been shot and killed

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Speaker 10: on a movie set. It was heat of the night.

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Speaker 10: Carol Connor was there, and I know what the protocol is.

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Speaker 10: Alec Baldwin is maybe criminally not guilty, but civilly libel

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Speaker 10: because it was his production. Having said that.

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Speaker 1: Is that what you call a Freudian slip? He's maybe no,

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Speaker 1: criminally not guilty. You just said that that I just said,

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Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin is maybe criminally not guilty. See you know what,

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Speaker 1: You're a veteran defense attorney, but even you have a

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Speaker 1: slip of the tongue. Wasn't a while and tell the truth,

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Speaker 1: don't you?

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Speaker 10: I always tell the truth. I don't always remember what

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Speaker 10: I say Nancy, he is not criminally He is not

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Speaker 10: kriminally guilty. You have to remember what you said if

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Speaker 10: you tell not the truth. The truth is based on

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Speaker 10: the facts. The way a set is supposed to go.

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Speaker 2: What is the art.

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Speaker 10: It is the armorer, the person who provides the weapon

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Speaker 10: to the actor. He had no responsibility to check that

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Speaker 10: weapon to see whether or not it was trot see

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Speaker 10: whether or not was anything other than a prop gun.

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Speaker 10: He did, whether he fired it or not, that is irrelevant.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Johannas chum Wayno is with me, film and TV

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Speaker 1: safety expert. He's the CEO of v ip Star Network. Okay,

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Speaker 1: that sounds impressive. Vip Star Network, Johannas, thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us, Johannas. Isn't it true, contrary to what

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Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen just spouted off? Isn't it true that on

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Speaker 1: a movie set you're never supposed to point a real gun.

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Speaker 1: This was a real gun. It's not a prop gun.

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Speaker 1: A real gun at a person and pull the trigger.

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Speaker 6: I mean, and that's a real gun with a live

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Speaker 6: board is obviously going to have a detrimental effect to

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Speaker 6: anybody that that gun is pointed to. And so you know,

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Speaker 6: the common aspect of how you you know, film a

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Speaker 6: movie in an environment where you're using live ammunition and

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Speaker 6: a live handgun.

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Speaker 1: Well, he's saying, you didn't know there was live ammo. Johannis,

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Speaker 1: who differentiates this scenario from what you're saying. Baldwin is

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Speaker 1: insisting a he didn't pull the trigger. Okay, that's bs right,

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Speaker 1: because the FBI has already done tests on this particular

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Speaker 1: gun and they say there's no way to going off

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Speaker 1: on its own. But I'm talking about movie protocol. When

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Speaker 1: you're not dealing with a prop gun, you're dealing with

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Speaker 1: a real gun. You're not supposed to point it is

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Speaker 1: somebody and pull the trigger.

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Speaker 6: Ever, I mean, this dates back to several decades in

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Speaker 6: terms of how movies have been made, and really, as

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Speaker 6: we look at the changes that are being made Nancy

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Speaker 6: into the future, this is what we're looking at in

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Speaker 6: terms of what type of ammunition can you use? Really,

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Speaker 6: the dummy bull this is what's been the common terminology

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Speaker 6: being used in this situation with Russ. Clearly we know

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Speaker 6: that it wasn't a me a bullet, It was a

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Speaker 6: real bullet and a real gun that caused the death

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Speaker 6: of Alena Hutchinson, and so we'll still learn more as

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Speaker 6: as a trial continues, if he's going to be found guilty,

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Speaker 6: if he's not going to be found guilty. To your point,

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Speaker 6: I definitely different in my opinion in terms of mister

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Speaker 6: Cohen's opinion that he just mentioned.

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Speaker 8: We have two injuries from a movie gun shock. Okay,

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Speaker 8: we're getting out there already. Just stay on the phone

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Speaker 8: with me. Okay, that yelled at me at lunch because

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Speaker 8: ask him about the visions?

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Speaker 1: Did you.

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Speaker 8: And yell at me. He's first abstructed guns. He's responsible

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Speaker 8: for MAMMI no, no, no, I'm a script supervivor. I

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Speaker 8: ran home. People were injured, true that I know of.

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Speaker 8: I was hearing. We were rehearsing and it went off,

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Speaker 8: and I ran out. We all ran out.

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Speaker 1: Bombshell.

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Speaker 10: Tonight.

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Speaker 12: Alec Baldwin parades new TLC reality show amidst a civil

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Speaker 12: suit for his cinematographer's depth, only months before his trial

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Speaker 12: on manslaughter charges. A prop gun and properly loaded with

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Speaker 12: live rounds, goes off on set during rehearsals for Alec

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Speaker 12: Baldwin's film Rust. Two crew members hit cinematographer Helena Hutchins

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Speaker 12: and director Joel Suza. Hutchins is critically injured and rushed

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Speaker 12: to the hospital. Despite life saving efforts, Hutchins succumbs to

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Speaker 12: her injuries and.

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Speaker 1: Now a TLC reality show has been announced where Alec Baldwin,

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Speaker 1: his wife, and their seven children share all of the love, laughter,

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Speaker 1: drama and family hijinks this as his manslaughter trial is looming.

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Speaker 1: I wonder what Miss Hutchins family thinks about the reality show.

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Speaker 1: You know, Johannes chum Way joining us from vip Star Network.

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Speaker 1: I've asked you twice now and I've yet to get

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Speaker 1: a straight answer out of you. I don't guess you're

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Speaker 1: on the ball and payroll or part of the knee

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Speaker 1: reality series. I don't know that tremuno question, and I'd

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Speaker 1: like to get a yes no answer if possible. Isn't

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Speaker 1: it protocol SOP standard operating procedure that on a movie set,

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Speaker 1: when working with a real gun, not a dummy gun

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Speaker 1: a prop gun, you are not to point the real

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Speaker 1: gun at a person and pull the trigger.

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Speaker 10: That is accurate.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I don't know what took so long to get

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Speaker 1: that out of you. Listen, I'm a JD, not a DDS.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how to pull teeth. But I can

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Speaker 1: certainly try joining me now Paul's zeit police commander out

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Speaker 1: of this jurisdiction. By the way, an author of stop

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Speaker 1: him from killing them. He is Screen Actors Guild and

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Speaker 1: he's experienced using firearms with the blanks during live action

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Speaker 1: movie scenes such as Terminator Paul's it's like, thank you

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Speaker 1: for being with us? Okay, follow up on what I

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Speaker 1: pulled out of Johanna's Chimoyno.

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Speaker 11: Absolutely not.

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Speaker 13: And as a matter of fact, you have a sanitary

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Speaker 13: environment to make sure live rounds are not introduced into

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Speaker 13: that environment, and that is the responsibility of any safety

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Speaker 13: officer on set.

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Speaker 2: As far as aiming a weapon at someone, again, that's

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Speaker 2: not okay, especially this weapon, given the fact that it

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Speaker 2: has nothing in its barrel except allegedly a blank round,

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Speaker 2: which we now know is a live round.

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Speaker 11: Bottom line is that firearm went off, it was aimed.

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Speaker 2: At the person that it actually killed, and the person

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Speaker 2: that had it in their hands is mister Baldwin. So

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Speaker 2: statutorily this meets New Mexico state statue.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's amazing of that Baldwin keep saying he

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Speaker 1: didn't pull the trigger and the gun quote went off

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Speaker 1: on its own while in his hand. But I want

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Speaker 1: to rage to everyone back to the time that Helene

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Speaker 1: Hutchins was shot dead on the set of Rust. With

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Speaker 1: the nine on one call.

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Speaker 8: Listen, well part of the body was injured. I'm not sure.

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Speaker 1: I'm not in there.

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Speaker 12: Fine, is there more than one wound?

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Speaker 8: I think there's one on an individual, one on two individuals. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 8: Canthony maultlen, I'll see exactly want to do next? We say,

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Speaker 8: I'm going to tell you how to stop the bleeding.

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Speaker 8: Listen carefully, make sure we do it right.

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Speaker 1: We do.

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Speaker 8: We do have a medic on medical ont They're already

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Speaker 8: doing that. Believe is the bleeding control. I'm allowed to

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Speaker 8: get it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know about the medic on the set of Rust,

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Speaker 1: but having been on multiple movie and TV sets, very

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Speaker 1: often there's somebody running around with a little plastic box

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Speaker 1: that has like band aids and back in it some aspirin.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how that's going to help anything. But

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Speaker 1: I want to go back to Keila Brantley, investigative reporter,

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Speaker 1: Dailymail dot Com. Keilla, I'm looking back at the verbatim

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Speaker 1: transcript of these nine on one calls, and the dispatch

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Speaker 1: officer is wise enough to say, so is it loaded

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Speaker 1: with a real bullet? And even in the heat of

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Speaker 1: the moment of a life threatening emergency, everybody on the

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Speaker 1: other end goes, I don't know. I can't tell you that. Well,

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Speaker 1: the woman is dying, bleeding out. That ain't from a

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Speaker 1: blake kila, But everybody's already in CYA cover your rear

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Speaker 1: end mode. I don't know if it was a live bullet.

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Speaker 1: Maybe she just fell. I can't believe the two faced

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Speaker 1: nature to dupluscity of this answer. I can't tell you

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Speaker 1: that she's bleeding out right in front of her.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think what you're seeing here is that everyone

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Speaker 3: on set was shocked that it was a live around

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Speaker 3: in the gun. Because there's several protocols that you're supposed

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Speaker 3: to go to that you're supposed to go through. That

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Speaker 3: means that there should not be a live round in

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Speaker 3: that gun. Obviously that was the fault of the armorer

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Speaker 3: who has been sentenced. And then another step there is

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Speaker 3: Alec Baldwin, who, as you said, should not have been

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Speaker 3: pointing that gun towards anyone.

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Speaker 1: I specifically want defense attorney, high profile defense attorney at that,

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Speaker 1: Darryl Cohen to hear what Alec Baldwin said. Listen, well,

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Speaker 1: the trigger wasn't put I didn't pull the trigger. So

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Speaker 1: you never pulled the trigger?

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Speaker 11: No, no, no, no no.

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Speaker 1: I would never point a to pull a trigger at them.

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Speaker 8: Never.

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Speaker 10: Never.

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Speaker 9: That was the training that I had.

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Speaker 4: You don't point it gun as a man and pull.

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Speaker 1: The trigger at that's from our friends over at ABC. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I can't wait for the State to play that in

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Speaker 1: front of the jury. I would never. It's not protocol.

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Speaker 1: That's not my training to pull the trigger. Agul In,

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Speaker 1: Well he did.

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Speaker 10: Darryl Nancy that I don't buy. I don't buy the

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Speaker 10: fact that he said he didn't pull the trigger. What

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Speaker 10: I am saying is is protocol. The armorer should have

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Speaker 10: made sure that weapon was not loaded with a live

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Speaker 10: round or rounds. That is what I am saying. I

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Speaker 10: think Alec Baldwin made a stupid mistake, both for the

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Speaker 10: reality show to come out now and also to say

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Speaker 10: he didn't pull the trigger. That is exactly what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, actually you just said two different things. So

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Speaker 1: first you said, I don't buy that. He said, yes,

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Speaker 1: you did that. He said he didn't pull the trigger.

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Speaker 1: So let me refresh your recollection. Listen, Well, the trigger

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Speaker 1: wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger, so you never

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Speaker 1: pulled the trigger?

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Speaker 6: No, no, no, no.

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Speaker 12: I would never point a gun to anyone to pull

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Speaker 12: a trigger at them.

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Speaker 10: Never.

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Speaker 6: That was the training that I had.

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Speaker 4: You don't point it, good as man and pull trigger.

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Speaker 1: Okay from our friends at ABC, and thank you ABC.

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Speaker 1: He just said it like three times in a row.

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Speaker 1: He did say I didn't pull the trigger. I would

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Speaker 1: never point a gun and pull the trigger, but he did.

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Speaker 1: So he's totally busted because, as you know, once you

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Speaker 1: lie about one thing, a jury can assume if they

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Speaker 1: wish that you're lying about everything. A lion part can

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Speaker 1: be viewed as a lie in a hole.

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Speaker 10: But that is not what the facts are. He was wrong.

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Speaker 10: I think that he did not tell the truth when

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Speaker 10: he said I didn't pull the trigger. I'm giving you that,

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Speaker 10: But what I'm saying to you is, Nancy, he has

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Speaker 10: no liability. In my view. He had followed protocol in

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Speaker 10: that the armorer is the one who makes sure that

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Speaker 10: the weapon is not loaded. Were there's some stupid moves?

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Speaker 10: Was there civil liability? You bet, but that's it.

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Speaker 14: Despite the tragic and untimely death of cinematographer Helena Hutchins,

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Speaker 14: actor and producer of movie Rust, Alec Baldwin seems to

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Speaker 14: be living his best Hollywood life. Just this week, Baldwin

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Speaker 14: proudly promotes a new reality TV show, The Baldwins, despite

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Speaker 14: being hit with yet another suit by Hudginson's family.

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Speaker 1: Okay, there you go, but let's see the trailer. Listen

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Speaker 1: him and we have an announcement to me, not.

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Speaker 11: This is about her show.

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Speaker 4: We're inviting you to experience the ups and downs crazy ALC.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So what exactly did Alec Baldwin say while under

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Speaker 1: police interrogation. I'm not talking about a friendly softball thrown

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Speaker 1: at him on ABC. I'm talking about what did he

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Speaker 1: say to police? Listen, she's right.

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Speaker 6: In front of me.

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Speaker 15: She's as farm for me as I am from between

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Speaker 15: the difference.

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Speaker 11: Between maybe you and the door. Okay for me.

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Speaker 15: She said it was a very tight shot, and the

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Speaker 15: shot was here not being a lead pulling the guns,

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Speaker 15: little lest lead turn cock.

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Speaker 11: Okay, and she's.

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Speaker 15: Right there, one of her in a position she wouldn't

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Speaker 15: ordinarily be if we were shooting and.

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Speaker 14: The gun.

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Speaker 1: Okay, DARYLD Cohen, You've dealt with a lot of defendants,

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Speaker 1: as have I, and I've looked at a lot of

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Speaker 1: their interrogations, read them, listened to them when they would

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Speaker 1: start explaining to me, maybe during plea negotiations, and they

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Speaker 1: always get right up to the critical moment, and then

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Speaker 1: suddenly they jump, they jumped to after the critical moment.

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Speaker 1: Let's just say you and I were robbing a bank

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Speaker 1: and I go, yeah, Cohen and I we went into

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Speaker 1: the bank and I said, man, don't pull a gun,

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Speaker 1: and then you know, he pulled the gun and the

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Speaker 1: next thing we were running out of the bank. We'll

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Speaker 1: hold on. There's two dead taillers. How did that get

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Speaker 1: lost in the sauce? The critical moment? And I'm looking

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Speaker 1: at what Ball was says here, reading critically, and he says,

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00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: and she's right there, vulnerable, in a position she would

437
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:09,680
Speaker 1: ordinarily be in if we were shooting, and this thing boom,

438
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: she hits the ground. Okay, isn't he leaving out the

439
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 1: part where he pulls the trigger and shoots her?

440
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 10: Kind of left that part out? Darryl Nancy too many times?

441
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 10: And Alec Baldwin is guilty of this when the truth

442
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 10: would set you free, or keep your damn big mouth shut,

443
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 10: as Judge Lan for you, as secretary, used to say,

444
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:36,640
Speaker 10: kyd BMS, keep your damn mouth, big mouth shut. If

445
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 10: he had done that, he was far better off than

446
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 10: inventing a story that he thought at the time would

447
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 10: help him, when in fact it's coming back to bite him.

448
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 1: It certainly is, because according to the FBI who tested

449
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 1: the weapon, there's no way the weapon went off on

450
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 1: its own. Back to dailymail dot Com investigative reporter Keilla Brantley,

451
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: what can you tell me about what the FBI says

452
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 1: about the trigger pool.

453
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 3: Well, during Hannah Gutira's case, you saw them bring in

454
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 3: the gun, analyze it and say that if it did

455
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 3: not go off, something would have to be completely wrong,

456
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,239
Speaker 3: that it would be a broken gun for it not

457
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 3: to need someone to pull the trigger to go off.

458
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 3: So Alec Baldwin's defense that he did not physically pull

459
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 3: the trigger, according to experts, is impossible.

460
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: This as the Baldwins announce a reality show on THLC

461
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 1: along with other major productions offered there. I'm trying to

462
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: figure out how Helena Hutchins family is going to react

463
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: to flipping through the channels and seeing all the quote love,

464
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: laughter and family hijinks. But speaking of the armorer, Hannah

465
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 1: Guitarra's I've got to very strong suspicion that Ali Baldwin

466
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:09,560
Speaker 1: is going to make her the villain in his trial.

467
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: Listener as guilty of the volutary manslaughter.

468
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 11: As Tarsian count one.

469
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 8: Is now guilty and cut Tambers Tarsian count.

470
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: It's going to be so easy since she has been

471
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: found guilty, to put all the blame on her. But

472
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: I'm understanding there's a very strong possibility that she will

473
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: be called to the stand.

474
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,239
Speaker 3: Listen, float in it with five of the dumm your

475
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 3: own before lunch, and there was.

476
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 14: One that want to go in, and.

477
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 11: So when we got back from.

478
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 8: Lunch, I took the little cleaner guy, I cleaned it

479
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 8: out really quick, and I put another dummy in there.

480
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 11: Okay, five total events?

481
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 10: Can you about Greg?

482
00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 11: There was something excise.

483
00:28:59,520 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 15: Yeah.

484
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 12: Baldwin's attorneys have planned their defense around Hannah gutier As

485
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 12: read not testifying against Alec Baldwin at trial. If the

486
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 12: defense can prevent Hannah gutier A's read from testifying, Baldwin's

487
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 12: team can use her own words and conviction to lay

488
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 12: the blame for the shooting squarely on her shoulders. Baldwin's

489
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 12: team also claims that anything Gutier as Reid would offer

490
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 12: is already available in her previous statements. In giving her

491
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 12: immunity from prosecution and the freedom to claim whatever she

492
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 12: wants could be highly prejudicial to their case.

493
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 1: Guys, will the armorer who is supposed to be in

494
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: charge of all weapons on the set, who has been

495
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: found guilty of involuntary manslaughter? Will she be the escapegoat

496
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: and Alec Baldwin's trial? Apparently, Baldwin's lawyers are fighting tooth

497
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: and nail to keep her out of that courtroom, for

498
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 1: the jury to never see her, never hear her. But

499
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 1: can they do that? Listen?

500
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 7: Hannah Gutier is Reid, found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in

501
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 7: the Rust shooting, pleads the fifth during a pre trial

502
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 7: hearing for Alec Baldwin. Goodier has read intends to avoid

503
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 7: incriminating herself while appealing her conviction. Prosecutors have now asked

504
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,959
Speaker 7: the judge to grant Gutier has read use immunity so

505
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 7: that she may testify a Baldwin's trial without her statements

506
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 7: evicting her legal standing. In a phone call from prison,

507
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 7: Gutier has read says she wants to see Alec Baldwin

508
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 7: in jail. The judge will decide if she will testify

509
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 7: against the Emmy Award winner at a trial. This summer.

510
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace two daral co In, a

511
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: high profile lawyer former prosecutor. Let's break it down in

512
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 1: simple terms. Immunity use immunity sometimes called single use immunity.

513
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 1: She has, even though she's been convicted, the right to

514
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: at least assert the Fifth Amendment to remain silent, even

515
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 1: though she's already been convicted at trial. Why because she's

516
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: got an appeal go and she's appealing that conviction, all right,

517
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: so she still has the Fifth to protect her. She

518
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: cannot be forced to take the stand. However, if the

519
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: state gives her immunity or use immunity immunity for the

520
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: purposes of this testimony, she can get out there and

521
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: incriminate herself, but it can never be used against her.

522
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: So if the state grants her use immunity, she has

523
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: no recourse to take the Fifth Amendment because what she's

524
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: going to say cannot be held against her. She's set

525
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: the creek without a paddle, and so is Baldwin. Before

526
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: I go and throw that to Dearyll Cohen, Paul Zike,

527
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: if she testifies at Baldwin's trial, what do you expect

528
00:31:58,200 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: her to say?

529
00:31:58,960 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 11: I expect her.

530
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 2: To put the blame and or the primary obligation of

531
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 2: the security of that movie set to ensure that there's

532
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 2: no live I am on that movie set.

533
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 11: He's the one that hired her. He has a large

534
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 11: role that he plays in this movie.

535
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 2: And you know, she's going to make sure that the

536
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,719
Speaker 2: Jerry knows that, and she's gonna shift some of this

537
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 2: over there on him.

538
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 11: And that makes sense. And you know, when you look

539
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:26,440
Speaker 11: at this reality.

540
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 2: TV show, I think that's a direct response to kind

541
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 2: of humanizing him a little bit. Right, So before this

542
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 2: goes to trial, you see him with his kids and

543
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 2: everything's great. Hey, wait, maybe he isn't the villain so

544
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 2: to speak, that people have made him out to be.

545
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 2: And I think that's intentional.

546
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: You know, Killen Brantley dailymil dot Com. That's a really

547
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: good point Zeke just made. Many people are speculating, Wow,

548
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: Alet Balwin needs the money, he's had to sell his place.

549
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: I guess it was in Martha's Vineyard now a reality show.

550
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: But maybe Zeke is right that this is a very

551
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: well orchestrated attempt to humanize him and make him not

552
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: the bad guy in the eyes of the jury.

553
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 3: Well, from a pr standpoint, Nancy, this does have the

554
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 3: potential to be a really good play. For the last

555
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 3: two plus years, Alec Baldwin has been associated with this tragedy.

556
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 3: You look at headlines and it's Alec Baldwin indicted, it's

557
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 3: Alec Baldwin potential killer. It's everything bad to do with

558
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 3: this case. So now it's a sort of rebrand that

559
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 3: makes him look like a doting dad, like a family man,

560
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,480
Speaker 3: and hopefully in this case you'll be able to see

561
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 3: the behind the scenes and maybe humanize him a little

562
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 3: bit more where you see potentially his struggle with this case,

563
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 3: how hard it's been for him personally and emotionally dealing

564
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 3: with all this.

565
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:46,479
Speaker 1: Is that what you expect? What do you what create us?

566
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 1: If any do you give? Rumors? Kill a brandtley that

567
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 1: he really needs the money?

568
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 3: Oh well, that's definitely a money grab here. Obviously he

569
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 3: has mounting legal fees. He has seven mouths to feed

570
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 3: on top of that, so there's no doubt. We don't

571
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 3: know exactly how much he's being paid for this, but

572
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:03,959
Speaker 3: he will be making a good payday off of it.

573
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: Which one is it money or pr or both? Listen?

574
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 7: Just in time for his manslaughter trial, Alec Baldwin announces

575
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 7: a new family reality show that will air on TLC.

576
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,240
Speaker 7: The video teaser offers a glimpse into the Baldwin family,

577
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,760
Speaker 7: with seven young children and a marriage with a twenty

578
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 7: five year age gap between the couple. Attorney Gloria Alrid,

579
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,400
Speaker 7: who represents Helena Hutchins's parents and sister in a civil

580
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 7: suit against Baldwin, claims the show is a calculated public

581
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,240
Speaker 7: relations move to influence the jury pool in New Mexico,

582
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 7: making Baldwin out to be a compassionate family.

583
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 3: Man who handed you your weapon in the day candidate

584
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 3: okay and physically handed.

585
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 15: She would show me the gun, okay, or she said colgun.

586
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 15: She said, test it for some language to she handed

587
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 15: it was sign did she said, do you want to check?

588
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 15: I know someone went soldier?

589
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 8: I said broad.

590
00:34:58,640 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 10: So and the first AI.

591
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:04,359
Speaker 15: Very often we'll ask periodically he'll say let me check

592
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 15: and they'll have two people check.

593
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 1: Okay, you know too, Johannes chim wayno joining us from

594
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: vip Star Network Film and say TV Safety expert. Is

595
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: he trying to cast blame elsewhere? Is that what he's doing?

596
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:21,720
Speaker 1: And that interrogation snippet.

597
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 6: One hundred percent, Nancy, this is a clear case where

598
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 6: he's trying to put blame on on the armor. I mean,

599
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 6: I go back to the expert witnesses and the expert

600
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 6: teams that we have on our health and safety services, Nancy.

601
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 6: When surgeons are operating on patients, they work directly with

602
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,839
Speaker 6: technicians to hand them over instruments. Where does the liability

603
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 6: lie with the surgeon operating on a patient. With the surgeon,

604
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,280
Speaker 6: it doesn't matter who hands him what. If he leaves

605
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 6: product in the patient, who's the blame the surgeon. If

606
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 6: he operates on the patient and makes mistakes during the surgery,

607
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,360
Speaker 6: who's the blame the surgeon? It's not the person that

608
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 6: handed him the instruments. And so we're going back and

609
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 6: forth between hearing mister Cohen comment that is the armor's

610
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 6: fault that handed him a live ammunition loaded firearm versus

611
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 6: the blame sitting there with Alec Baldwin. That should have

612
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 6: been part of the pre planning, the production, the training,

613
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 6: everything related to how you handle firearms. So I heavily

614
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 6: disregard or dis approve of the opinion by mister Cohen

615
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 6: in terms of whose liability it falls on.

616
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,320
Speaker 1: Well, another issue to me is just the simple truth.

617
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: I don't think it's all Alec Baldwin's fault, and I

618
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 1: don't think it's all the armor or Hannigatera's fault. I

619
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 1: think it's both of their faults. Okay, she handed him

620
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,880
Speaker 1: a gun with a live round in it, and he

621
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 1: pointed the gun at a human, a real gun, not

622
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: a prop gun, and pulled the trigger and then lied

623
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 1: about it and said he didn't pull the trigger. So

624
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 1: everything he says now is down the crapper because he's

625
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 1: already been caught in one lie. Then you've got the

626
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: other added culpability that he is the execut to produce

627
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: her and in charge of everything on this program. Hey,

628
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 1: let me circle back to Daryl Cohen again, because we

629
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: got off the track on the immunity issue. If the

630
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 1: armorer Hannigate is is given immunity to testify against Baldwin

631
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 1: for the state. She cannot take the fifth. She's got

632
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: to testify.

633
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 10: That's very true. And there's, as you knew, two types

634
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 10: of immunity. There's use immunity, which they're offering her, and

635
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:35,080
Speaker 10: there's transaction immunity. Transactional immunity is far greater, far better

636
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 10: for the person who's about to testify. But she cannot

637
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 10: take the fifth. On the other hand, what is she

638
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 10: to do about her trial and about the appeal? She

639
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 10: is between them, the proverbial rock and hard place. What

640
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 10: does she do better to lay low?

641
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,760
Speaker 1: I want you to hear this. Take a listen.

642
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 7: Ever since the shooting death of Helena Hutchings on the

643
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,840
Speaker 7: set of rust Alec, Baldwin has claimed he did not

644
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,760
Speaker 7: pulled the trigger, even after an FBI report contradicting Baldwin's

645
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:05,840
Speaker 7: account of the shooting, saying the trigger had to have

646
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 7: been pulled for the gun to fire. Baldwin says he

647
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,840
Speaker 7: didn't pull the trigger. The FBI report says their testing

648
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 7: proves the gun could not be made to fire without

649
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 7: the pull of the trigger. Accidental discharge testing determined that

650
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 7: the firearm used in the shooting a forty five cult

651
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,720
Speaker 7: single action revolver could not have fired without the trigger

652
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 7: being pulled. The FBI report also says with the hammer

653
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 7: in the quarter half cock and fully cocked positions, the

654
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 7: gun could not be made to fire without a pull

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00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 7: of the trigger. Ali Baldwin says he didn't pull the trigger.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna be hard to fight with the FBI ballistics testing.

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00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: Back to Calli brandtleydallymail dot com. Now we hear Baldwin

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00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,800
Speaker 1: stating in his police interrogation that Katias handed him the gun.

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00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: Was she the one that handed him the gun or

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00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:53,360
Speaker 1: did an assistant hand him the gun?

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00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 3: We have conflicting stories here. We have Alec Baldwin saying

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00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 3: that Hannagutierra is handed in the gun. We have police

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00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 3: reports saying that it was an assistant director who handed

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00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 3: in the gun. But at the end of the day,

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00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 3: what we have is a cinematographer who's dead, a son

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00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 3: without his mother, and we have two people who are

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00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 3: facing the music.

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00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: We wait as justice and foles. Thank you to our

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Speaker 1: guests for being with us. Nancy Grace signing off, good

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Speaker 1: night friend,