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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent coverage.

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Speaker 3: That is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 4: But enough with that, let's get to the show.

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Speaker 5: Hey, guys, welcome to Crystal Kyle and friends. Very excited

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Speaker 5: about the episode we have for you today. Thank you, guys.

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Speaker 5: I'll find it pretty interesting.

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Speaker 1: I got to sit down for thirty minutes with Senator

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Speaker 1: Sanders and talk about all the things, from how he

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Speaker 1: views the Biden administration, how I view the Biden administration,

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Speaker 1: whether the Progressives are doing enough, his change in role

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Speaker 1: from sort of perpetual outsider status to now being in

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Speaker 1: the room, and what that's been like.

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Speaker 5: So it's pretty interesting talking to him.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, So this episode is a little bit bittersweet for

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Speaker 6: me because I mean, I love the fact that you

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Speaker 6: got to talk to Bernie, and I have full faith

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Speaker 6: and confidence in your abilities. I know you're going to

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Speaker 6: do an amazing job, but I'm not in this interview,

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Speaker 6: and there's a reason why I'm not in this interview.

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Speaker 6: So I mean, you could probably give the timeline better

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Speaker 6: than me. But they reached out to you and basically said, yeah,

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Speaker 6: we'll do an interview under the condition it's only you.

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Speaker 4: Correct.

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Speaker 5: Yes, So that was that we actually didn't reach out

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Speaker 5: to them.

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Speaker 6: I'm going to say that, but I feel like months

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Speaker 6: ago you did reach out to them and invite them,

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Speaker 6: and and now like months later they finally responded and

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Speaker 6: they were like, sure, but only you.

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Speaker 5: I actually can't.

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Speaker 1: You're probably right because probably at the beginning, at the

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Speaker 1: beginning of the podcast, they probably did reach out to

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Speaker 1: but it has been that request long expired, so they

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Speaker 1: reached out. The Senator was very frustrated with the media

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Speaker 1: not asking him a single decent question, so I think

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Speaker 1: they wanted to have a place where they thought they'd

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Speaker 1: get a more substantive discussion.

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Speaker 5: I've interviewed him a couple times before, and.

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Speaker 1: For whatever reason, that was the very first thing they

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Speaker 1: led with when they reached out to me. It was like,

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Speaker 1: I want to do this interview, but really want it

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Speaker 1: to be just you. They were also kind of open

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Speaker 1: on whether it would live here or with breaking points.

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Speaker 1: So it wasn't just you that they didn't want. It

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Speaker 1: was also Sager made you.

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Speaker 6: Made it seem like it was relatively non negotiable that

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Speaker 6: they wanted to talk to you. Yea, it was very

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Speaker 6: It was like a hard line kind of like, sure,

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Speaker 6: we'll do it, but this is the condition. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 6: so you know am I but heered over that. Yes,

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Speaker 6: I'm very buttered over that. I mean, I supported Bernie

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Speaker 6: more than anybody in twenty sixteen, more than anybody in

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Speaker 6: twenty twenty. I got him on Joe Rogan. That's you know,

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Speaker 6: you could talk to Fashakir, his campaign manager. I'm the

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Speaker 6: one who set all that up.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So I think that's fair to.

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Speaker 6: Sort of be thrown under the bus in a way,

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Speaker 6: whether it's Saga or me. I mean, Sager, he'll he'll

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Speaker 6: even tell you he's more Bernie's ideological enemy than I am. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: And so to be somebody who's more ideologically aligned with

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Speaker 6: him and supported him as much as I did, and

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Speaker 6: for him to just be like, I'm gonna.

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Speaker 4: Kick you off your own show, that's stunge.

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Speaker 6: I didn't like that I was talking to corn about it,

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Speaker 6: and he was like, really, why would he do that?

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Speaker 6: I was like, I don't fucking know, So you tell me.

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Speaker 6: I mean, your theory was like, Oh, it's just he

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Speaker 6: likes you and so he wants to do it with

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Speaker 6: only you. My theory's more, for whatever reason, he doesn't

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Speaker 6: want to involve me or Sager. In the case of me,

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Speaker 6: maybe it's be as I called him a cuck repeatedly,

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Speaker 6: if he saw.

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Speaker 4: That could be which but I kind of doubt he

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Speaker 4: saw that, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: I honestly, I mean, it's very hard to say what

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Speaker 1: the behind the scenes looks like. I honestly would be

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Speaker 1: surprised if it was like personal to you or personal

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Speaker 1: to Sager.

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Speaker 5: I think it was more. I mean, this is specula.

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Speaker 1: I have no idea, right, All I know is that

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Speaker 1: it was presented to me is like, we want to

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Speaker 1: do this interview and give you a good chunk of time,

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Speaker 1: but it's we want it to be a one on

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Speaker 1: one and like that's a stipulation. So they were open

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Speaker 1: on which platform, they were open on how we promote it.

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Speaker 1: You know, you'll see the conversation like it's definitely not

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Speaker 1: a softball interview and we it's wide right and all

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Speaker 1: that stuff. So they were open on all of those pieces.

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Speaker 1: Came the studio, which I also appreciated because it makes

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Speaker 1: for a better conversation. But that was like the one

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Speaker 1: thing they were hard on is it needs to be

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Speaker 1: one on one.

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Speaker 6: The other possibility, like you pointed out, I don't know

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Speaker 6: how much I buy this, But the other possibility is

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Speaker 6: that maybe his uh hit like his manager or agent

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Speaker 6: or his commas person doesn't like me or saga and

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Speaker 6: was like we just wanted to be only you.

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Speaker 4: So that's another possibility.

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Speaker 1: Or the sent or knows that the senator has a

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Speaker 1: certain like knows who I am. I know he knows

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Speaker 1: who you are to but had you know, a certain

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Speaker 1: comfortable he had been just had me in mind.

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Speaker 4: So he was on my show during the campaign.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and that was more I think what happened there

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Speaker 6: was Flashakir the campaign manager. I set up the Rogan interview,

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Speaker 6: and then they felt like the right thing to do

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Speaker 6: is to give Kyle interview. I didn't even ask for

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Speaker 6: an interview because I didn't do interviews. Then I didn't

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Speaker 6: even really want an interview, but they were like, do

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Speaker 6: an interview. Because oh, basically like, let me pay you

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Speaker 6: back for the rogan for getting Yeah, and so you

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Speaker 6: know the one thing. Yeah, this is obvious, everybody will

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Speaker 6: know this, but they gave me fifteen minutes and it

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Speaker 6: was like, in out quick interview, I asked like four

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Speaker 6: fucking questions.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: But you know, especially because he's not a short winded person.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, so you just get. But that's the thing that's

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Speaker 6: a little frustrating is that you do get the sense

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Speaker 6: that it's sort of looked down his nose at certain people.

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Speaker 6: And I think he does have this contradictory belief where

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Speaker 6: he talks all the time about oh, we love independent

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Speaker 6: media and we want independent media to grow, and it's like, well,

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Speaker 6: all the people who were part of the Justice Democrats

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Speaker 6: and we're in the squad, we're more than happy to

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Speaker 6: go on all these left wing shows when we were

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Speaker 6: helping them get elected. And now that they are elected

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Speaker 6: and now that they're not really fulfilling your mission, it's

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Speaker 6: like all.

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Speaker 4: Of a sudden when we get tiny bit critical of

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Speaker 4: them gone.

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Speaker 6: And so it's like you don't really actually want a

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Speaker 6: thriving into pendent media because that actually does mean more

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Speaker 6: tough questions for you, and you're willing to dismiss or

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Speaker 6: overlook or not pay attention to and not go on

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Speaker 6: any of the shows that were huge supporters of you.

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Speaker 6: So I kind of think it's bullshit. Right Wing media

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Speaker 6: always has right wing politicians and they feed each other,

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Speaker 6: they echo each other's arguments, and there's like a bond

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Speaker 6: there and on the left. I mean, that's not the case.

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Speaker 6: But you know what, at this point I should really

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Speaker 6: stop complaining because the fact of the matter is I

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Speaker 6: don't want to have any sort of relationship with any

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Speaker 6: of these people, you know, whether it's politicians, whether it's

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Speaker 6: other people in the media space. I mean, I've seen

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Speaker 6: what happens in the past and recently with stuff like that,

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Speaker 6: and it's like it's just a drain and it's a waste,

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Speaker 6: and it's mental energy wasted, and it's just it's not

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Speaker 6: worth it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think why it's important is because there's two

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Speaker 1: ways for media to really matter and have an impact,

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Speaker 1: which is, you know, the goal of media is to

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Speaker 1: matter and have an impact ultimately.

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Speaker 5: One is just to have a large audience, right which

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Speaker 5: you have.

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Speaker 1: The other, though, is you have to have sort of

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Speaker 1: like elite awareness of what's going on in that space

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Speaker 1: if you're looking to influence policymakers and the people who

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Speaker 1: you know run this country and run the world. And

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Speaker 1: so it helps a lot in that latter category to

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Speaker 1: have people like Bernie Sanders or AOC or any member

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Speaker 1: of Congress who you know is going on those platforms

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Speaker 1: and sort of bridging that divide between alternative media and

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Speaker 1: these elite spaces, because otherwise they just they pretend like

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Speaker 1: the large audiences don't exist. They pretend like the whole

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Speaker 1: space and genre and whatever is like irrelevant and doesn't

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Speaker 1: doesn't exist at all, even as we get higher views

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Speaker 1: than CNN or higher views that MSNBC or whatever. So

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Speaker 1: that's part of why I think it matters this conversation

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Speaker 1: about whether left politicians are actually engaging with these spaces.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, so what I want to do is, well, we'll

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Speaker 6: have the interview here and then I want to respond

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Speaker 6: to it, break it down, get your thoughts on it,

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Speaker 6: and then also you know, I'll tell everybody had I

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Speaker 6: been there, which I wanted to be there, had I

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Speaker 6: been there, the questions I would have asked.

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Speaker 1: Well, we also should say you gave me that list

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Speaker 1: of questions beforehand too, of things that you were thinking of,

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Speaker 1: and I think a lot.

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Speaker 5: I mean, there are a lot.

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Speaker 1: Of things that either you or I were interested in

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Speaker 1: and would have asked, but definitely informed the interview some

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Speaker 1: of the things that you sent.

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Speaker 6: So yeah, that's why I ultimately, I mean, I'm not

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Speaker 6: gonna lie to everybody. My initial reaction when I was

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Speaker 6: told he wants to come on your show, but kick

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Speaker 6: you off, my reaction was like, fuck him, No, I

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Speaker 6: don't want him on the show. How about that? That

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Speaker 6: was my initial reaction. But when I'm not as emotional

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Speaker 6: and I'm a little more calm and rational about it, Yes,

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Speaker 6: you think through it and you realize number one, you're

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Speaker 6: a phenomenal interviewer and you're gonna ask great questions. And

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Speaker 6: number two, yeah, I could write down a bunch of

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Speaker 6: questions that I would have asked and give you the list,

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Speaker 6: and you can determine which you think are fair and

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Speaker 6: which ones you think maybe aren't, and then you'll know

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Speaker 6: incorporate that into your question. So even though I'm not there,

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Speaker 6: I am some percentage there because some of the questions

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Speaker 6: were inspired by some of the things that I showed you.

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Speaker 6: So you know, when I'm more calm and rational about it. Yes,

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Speaker 6: we ended up doing what is the right thing, and

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Speaker 6: you sat down and interviewed him. But yes, I'm not

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Speaker 6: gonna lie the irrational lizard. Part of my brain was like,

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Speaker 6: you can go fuck himself. You're not coming on my

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Speaker 6: show and kicking me off, fuck out of here.

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Speaker 5: Fair?

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Speaker 1: All right with that, we will bring you Seda Sanders.

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Speaker 1: He wanted to talk about the Reconciliation Bill, which is

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Speaker 1: what he's been spending a lot of time on. But

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Speaker 1: we got into media, we got into Trump, we got

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Speaker 1: into the coal miners strike, we got into the plant

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Speaker 1: closing in West Virginia, and quite a bit of back

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Speaker 1: and forth on Biden and what progressives could do with

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Speaker 1: their leverage. Let's take a look, Senator Sanders. So great

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Speaker 1: to see you, Sarah, thanks for joining us with you.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: Let's dive right into the nitty gritty of what you've

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Speaker 1: been spending most of your time on, which is this

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Speaker 1: budget bill. What's in it that you're excited about, what

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Speaker 1: do you think is going to be most consequential, and

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Speaker 1: are there things that you were disappointed didn't make it

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Speaker 1: in well?

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Speaker 3: First thought, thank you very much for asking that question,

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Speaker 3: because you would be astounded as to how little interest

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Speaker 3: there is in the inside the beltwagh media call about

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Speaker 3: those issues every day. I'm hounded, what's the process, When

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Speaker 3: is it going to be done? What about this one?

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Speaker 3: They just forget to ask? What's in the bill? Now? Is?

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Speaker 3: I think many people may know. I have indicated in

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Speaker 3: my view that this bill is the most consequential piece

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Speaker 3: of legislation for working families since the nineteen thirties FDR,

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Speaker 3: the New Deal. Okay, what's in it? Well, first thought,

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Speaker 3: at a time of massive income and wealth inequality, you know,

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Speaker 3: what we actually do. We demand that the wealthiest people

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Speaker 3: in this country and large profitable corporations who in some

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Speaker 3: years are paying zero in federal taxes start paying their

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Speaker 3: fair share of taxes. So that in itself is a

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Speaker 3: fairly radical statement. Number two, what we do, and I

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Speaker 3: have to tell you this is still a work in progress.

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Speaker 3: We've got to get the budget thing done, then we've

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Speaker 3: got to get the reconciliation bill done. Number two, what

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Speaker 3: we do is take a look at what's going on

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Speaker 3: with children in America. You know, we don't talk about

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Speaker 3: that in this country. Everyone talks about the future generation.

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Speaker 3: They love America, but they ignored the needs of the children.

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Speaker 3: We have the highest rate of childhood poverty of any

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Speaker 3: major country, almost any major country in terms of children.

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Speaker 3: We address that in a very frontal way, very broadway.

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Speaker 3: What we do is provide a expand a chrial tax credit.

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Speaker 3: Every working class family in America as kids will get

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Speaker 3: to check for three hundred dollars a month. We think

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Speaker 3: that that in itself will cut childhood poverty in the

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Speaker 3: United States of America in half. How's that? And then

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Speaker 3: on top of that, we understand that our childcare system

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Speaker 3: is totally sysfunctional. Right, people are spending twenty five thirty

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Speaker 3: percent of their incomes while they go to work on childcare.

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Speaker 3: The premise that we're operating on the now is that

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Speaker 3: nobody in America should pay more than seven percent of

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Speaker 3: his or income for childcare. You'd step forward. In addition

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Speaker 3: to that, we put a lot of money into children's

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Speaker 3: nutrition program, so big focus on the needs of our kids.

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Speaker 3: The United States is the only major country on Earth

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Speaker 3: not to provide paid family and medically right. There are

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Speaker 3: women today who give birth you have to go back

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Speaker 3: to work in a week because they don't have any

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Speaker 3: paid leave we end that, and that's a significant step forward.

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Speaker 3: Right now, driving over here from the Capitol, it's a

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Speaker 3: ten minute drive, you see people who are homeless, living

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Speaker 3: intents all over the city. We are putting an unprecedented

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Speaker 3: amount of money into building low income and affordable housing.

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Speaker 3: We are dealing with the existential threat to this planet

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Speaker 3: of climate, and we're putting hundreds and hundreds of billions

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Speaker 3: of dollars into transforming our energy system. Creating a Civilian

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Speaker 3: Climate Core will put hundreds of thousands of young people

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Speaker 3: to work transforming our energy system, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 3: And we are dealing in terms of Medicare. You got

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Speaker 3: a lot of folks in Vermont, around this country, people

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Speaker 3: who can't afford ventures, can't afford hearing aids, can't affoid eyeglasses.

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Speaker 3: We're going to expand Medicare. Those are just some of

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Speaker 3: the provisions which I think are transformative for American society.

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Speaker 1: Is there still a possibility of the Medicare age being

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Speaker 1: lowered as part of this? That's still on the table.

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Speaker 1: So I wanted to ask you said this obviously work

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Speaker 1: in progress. Still, do you have red lines in terms

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Speaker 1: of certain programs that must be there in order to

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Speaker 1: garner your support certain dollar amount, a threshold that it

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Speaker 1: must meet.

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Speaker 3: Well, I have a lot of red lines with Soto

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Speaker 3: forty nine other members, right, So I mean what makes

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Speaker 3: this very very difficult. I hope everybody appreciates this. The

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Speaker 3: Senator is split fifty to fifty. We will have zero

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Speaker 3: Republican support for this type of legislation. Then we're interested

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Speaker 3: to giving tax breaks to billionaires and throwing working people

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Speaker 3: off of the Affordable Care Act. So they're not there.

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Speaker 3: We got fifty people. Everybody knows it is a very

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Speaker 3: diverse caucus of philosophically, people have very different ideas. So

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Speaker 3: my job is to try to put it together. But

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Speaker 3: I think all of these basic principles are going to

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Speaker 3: be included. I didn't even mention making community colleges, tuition free,

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Speaker 3: taking on the pharmaceutical industries of Medica negotiates crisis. But

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Speaker 3: all of those basic principles will be in the legislation. Now,

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Speaker 3: you asked me, are the aspects of it that I

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Speaker 3: am disappointed? In law? We proposed six trillion dollars as

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Speaker 3: a bill. Many of my more conservative Democratic colleagues did

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Speaker 3: not agree with that, and it was taken down to

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Speaker 3: three and a half trillion plus six hundred billion going

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Speaker 3: into the physical infrastructure, which is part of the so

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Speaker 3: called bipartisan bill.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I want to ask you about that in

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Speaker 1: a minute. So it seems like you have obviously a

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Speaker 1: couple of constraints. You have people like Center or Mansion,

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Speaker 1: He's expressed skepticism over some of the provisions regarding climate change.

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Speaker 1: You also have the Senate parliamentarian to contend with. They

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Speaker 1: previously stripped out the fifteen dollars minimum wage the last

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Speaker 1: time around, things like the Proact Immigration Reform, potentially the

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Speaker 1: renewable Energy Standard. It seems like those all might be

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Speaker 1: contested by the Senate Parliament.

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Speaker 3: Those are all hurdles that we've got to overcome.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and what is your expectation there though I don't.

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Speaker 3: Want to make any any speculation on that. But I

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Speaker 3: just again want people to understand that because of the Fillibus,

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Speaker 3: let's get back to the phillbus. So we don't even

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Speaker 3: have fifty votes plus the Vice President, we're operating under

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Speaker 3: a reconciliation rules and the so called bird rules, which

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Speaker 3: means and this is hard for people outside of the

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Speaker 3: belt Way to understand it's not just hey, I have

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Speaker 3: an idea, let's put it in the bill. It has

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Speaker 3: to confirm conform to reconciliation rules, which have to do

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Speaker 3: with budgetary processes, not policy decisions. Her argument, which I

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Speaker 3: strongly disagree with against the minimum wage is that was policy,

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Speaker 3: not a tax proposal. So we have to in a

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Speaker 3: sense conform to the bird rules budget rules rather than

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Speaker 3: just the good policy that we have to do.

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Speaker 1: Why do you have to conform to those rules from

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Speaker 1: this particular parliamentarian because look, the Republicans previously they got

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Speaker 1: a ruling they didn't like, they got a new parliamentarian,

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Speaker 1: and I just look, I know you see the climate

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Speaker 1: crisis as existential as I do too. It seems hard

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Speaker 1: to understand how you would let the the advice of

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Speaker 1: an unelected.

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Speaker 3: Staffer work somebody that.

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Speaker 1: We have hired staffer who's unelected, who is there to

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Speaker 1: provide you with guidance on what these rules should be,

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Speaker 1: allow them to stand in the way of doing what

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Speaker 1: is really necessary to deal with what is truly an

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Speaker 1: existential crisis.

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Speaker 3: Uh, you're right, period, you are right. So again, there

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Speaker 3: are fifty members of the Democraticalcus. I share you a

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Speaker 3: view not everybody agrees with that.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: In other words, you know, if you're saying, you know,

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Speaker 3: should the lead a fire the parliamentarian, you can make

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Speaker 3: that argument, but I have to tell you that there

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Speaker 3: are members of them crodicbal becaus who do not agree

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Speaker 3: with them.

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Speaker 1: And same thing on the filibuster. Is there any movement

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Speaker 1: towards filibuster reform because it's another one of these things

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Speaker 1: that it's kind of hard to understand. You see what

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Speaker 1: needs to be done, it's really clear, I know, you

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Speaker 1: see it really clearly, and then you have this kind

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Speaker 1: of you know, archaic Senate procedure that's standing in the

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Speaker 1: way of actually accomplishing it.

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Speaker 3: You know, you talk about climate being an existential threat

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Speaker 3: to the planet. I would also put in that area

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Speaker 3: the attacks on democracy that we're thinking in Texas and

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Speaker 3: Georgia and states all over this country.

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Speaker 5: Yep.

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Speaker 3: And to me, that is an existential threat against American democracy.

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Speaker 3: Do I think we should act boldly to overturn what

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Speaker 3: these states are doing, who are very clear about trying

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Speaker 3: to exclude African Americans, Latinos, young people, people with disabilities

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Speaker 3: from the political process. Of course we should do. We

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Speaker 3: have fifty votes to do that. Now we're working on that.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk a little bit about the infrastructure plan,

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Speaker 1: the bipartisan plan. There is a lot of focus and obsession,

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Speaker 1: I would say, with getting a couple of Republicans on

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Speaker 1: board with this plan so they can pass in and

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Speaker 1: bipartisan way. The reports are it includes some privatization schemes,

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Speaker 1: things like asset recycling, which is basically just a fancy

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Speaker 1: name for selling off some public works. Do you expect

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Speaker 1: to vote in favor of that bill based on what

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Speaker 1: you need?

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Speaker 3: Question? All right, Look between you and me, don't tell

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Speaker 3: anybody I think this whole process doesn't make a whole

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Speaker 3: lot of sense. Look, you got needs out there. Should

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Speaker 3: we invest heavily in rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure, roads, bridges, water,

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Speaker 3: huge problem, wastewater, plants, broadband, all of those are huge issues.

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Speaker 3: Of course we should do it. My own preference would

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Speaker 3: have been to do it in one bill, that's all,

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Speaker 3: and get the fifty votes plus the Vice president that

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Speaker 3: we need. Again, there are fifty members of the Democratic Caucus.

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Speaker 3: Some felt it very important too, for whatever reason, to

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Speaker 3: show the world that they can work with Republicans. And

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Speaker 3: that's what this process is about. So I think by

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Speaker 3: in law, and we haven't seen the fine print of

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Speaker 3: this legislation yet. As you and I chat, I think

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Speaker 3: the investments are sensible, roads, bridges and all that stuff,

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Speaker 3: greats jobs. It's important what we call the pay for

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Speaker 3: is how these things are going to be funded. In

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Speaker 3: many ways do not make a lot of sense to me,

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Speaker 3: based on what I have seen up to now. They

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Speaker 3: are pretty conservative approaches, and the reason of that is Republicans,

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Speaker 3: of course don't want to raise any taxes on the

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Speaker 3: wealthy large corporations, so the Democratic negotiators are caught in

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Speaker 3: a bund.

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Speaker 1: What's your understanding right now of those pay for us?

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Speaker 1: I think the asset recycling.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that is the idea that we privatize infrastructure, that

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Speaker 3: we give over roads and bridges and parking meets or

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Speaker 3: whatever it may be to private sector. I think is

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Speaker 3: a very foolish idea. I'm not a great fan of privatization.

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Speaker 3: And what they are also doing is taking money from

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Speaker 3: other pots of money that were passed in previous COD

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Speaker 3: bills which should be used later on. Concerned about small businesses, restaurants,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. So in general, the pay fors are not

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Speaker 3: good but here is the bottom line, and this is

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Speaker 3: the world that we live in. We have fifty volks.

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Speaker 3: One person says no, nothing happens. So I am willing

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Speaker 3: to go along. I think I want to see the

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Speaker 3: final details of the bipotterisan bill. If there is one

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Speaker 3: hundred percent agreement on the part of the Democrats who

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Speaker 3: are negotiating this that they are going to go along

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Speaker 3: with the reconciliation package.

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Speaker 5: And do you have those assurances today?

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Speaker 3: That is a very good question. And the fate of

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Speaker 3: the All I can tell you is, if I have

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Speaker 3: anything to say about it, there will not be a

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Speaker 3: bipotisan bill unless there is a reconciliation bill.

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Speaker 1: I guess that gets into one of the other questions

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Speaker 1: that I've had and a lot of other people have had,

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Speaker 1: which is that it seems like the Mansions and the

439
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,000
Speaker 1: Gottheimer's of the world, the more conservative Democrats are always

440
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,800
Speaker 1: willing to threaten to withhold their vote over things that

441
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,760
Speaker 1: frankly make the bills worse. Mansion willing to walk away

442
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:05,159
Speaker 1: if we're raising taxes on corporations too much. Gotttheimer and

443
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,639
Speaker 1: the Salt Tax Caucus over in the House saying we

444
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:09,920
Speaker 1: really are dying to, you know, give the wealthy in

445
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 1: our district a tax break, and there's not an equivocal

446
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,160
Speaker 1: willingness to walk away from the progressive siluce Well, I wouldn't.

447
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:17,919
Speaker 3: Say that, Crystal, I really would not. In fact, we

448
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 3: have gone as far as we have gone. Let's again,

449
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 3: you know, sometimes we kind of take things for granted.

450
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:30,439
Speaker 3: What we are looking at as legislation right now that

451
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,240
Speaker 3: is more consequential than any time in the last seventy

452
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,000
Speaker 3: eighty years. So it's a big deal. It would not

453
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,760
Speaker 3: have happened without the Progressive Caucus in the House standing

454
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 3: up and fighting. So in the House, for example, it

455
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 3: is not the there are some conservative to say, hey,

456
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 3: unless you do these conservative things, we're not going to

457
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,119
Speaker 3: put it is dozens and numbers, dozens of members of

458
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 3: the progressive caucuses and say, you know what, we are

459
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 3: going to expand medicare, We're all going to deal with childcare,

460
00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:58,159
Speaker 3: we all going to deal with pre K, we all

461
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,359
Speaker 3: got to deal with paid family and medical leaf. That

462
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,920
Speaker 3: is a huge, huge, huge step forward. Look, this bill.

463
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,280
Speaker 3: You got a fairly conservative of the United States Congress.

464
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 3: What can I tell you, But this bill is a major,

465
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:15,320
Speaker 3: major step forward but your point is well taken. Historically.

466
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,200
Speaker 3: I remember I was in the House for sixteen years.

467
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 3: Over and over again I heard, oh, Bernie, your ideas

468
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:21,119
Speaker 3: are great there, but you know, we have all these

469
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,560
Speaker 3: conservatives who can't vote for it. We have kind of

470
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,920
Speaker 3: turned that around a little bit. That's what this bill

471
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:30,720
Speaker 3: is about. That's a big deal. But we are right

472
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 3: now in a pivotal moment, and I have made clear,

473
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,600
Speaker 3: and I think Schumer has made clear, Pelosi has made clear,

474
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 3: the President has made clear. This is a two track process.

475
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 3: You want this bipotizan bill, fine, you're going to vote

476
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 3: for reconciliation. You don't want it, that's it.

477
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 1: And so to reiterate, if you don't feel confident that

478
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 1: all of the Democrats are going to stick together to

479
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,400
Speaker 1: pass something close to what you've proposed with this budget bill,

480
00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 1: you're going to be out in terms of the Infanta

481
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 1: won't happen.

482
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 3: That's all. Just it's not me. I mean, Pelosi has said,

483
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 3: I think very strongly and effectively that this is you

484
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,639
Speaker 3: guys want your bipotisan bill, that's fine, We're going to

485
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:11,679
Speaker 3: bring the reconciliation bill up at the same time. And

486
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 3: that's exactly the right strategy. The President has made that clear.

487
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 3: So it's not just me, but we're going to go

488
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 3: forward together. We're not going forward at all.

489
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 1: What is your assessment of the Biden administration to date.

490
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 1: I know you have a lot of hopes for this

491
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:24,880
Speaker 1: particular bill.

492
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 5: You know.

493
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 1: My own thought is the relief bill was important. It

494
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 1: was significant, but also especially with the fifteen dollar minium

495
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 1: and wage stripped down, all of those provisions were ultimately temporary.

496
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 3: It was, but you're not going to I mean, look,

497
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,960
Speaker 3: do I have disagreements with Joe Biden. Obviously I do.

498
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 3: I ran for president against them. Right, one clear difference.

499
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 3: I strongly believe in a Medicare for all single payer system.

500
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 3: Current healthcare system is totally dysfunctional. His views are different.

501
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 3: But having said that, and I have to make this point,

502
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,479
Speaker 3: sometimes progresses, Oh it's not perfect. Oh we didn't do this,

503
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 3: we didn't do that. And by the way, we have

504
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 3: not given up on the minimum wage. All right, we

505
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 3: are going to continue to fight for that, and I

506
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 3: think we have a shot.

507
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 5: Can you elaborate on that, No.

508
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,479
Speaker 3: But I think we have There are ways that you know,

509
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 3: it can be implemented, and it must be implemented. Okay,

510
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 3: we have too many people working for starvation wages. But

511
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 3: this is what I would say about Joe Biden. You know,

512
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 3: somebody who, throughout his career in the Senate was considered

513
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,479
Speaker 3: to be a moderate. All right, well, whatever reason. You know,

514
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 3: Biden came into office and he looked around him and

515
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:34,080
Speaker 3: he said, you know what, climate is an existential threat.

516
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 3: We have got to deal with it. Yes, the working

517
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 3: class has been decimated for decades now. We have got

518
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 3: to address that. So what he did that, No, President,

519
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 3: you correct me if you think I'm misstating this. What

520
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 3: he did said, well, we're going to spend three percent

521
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 3: more here and five percent more there. What he said,

522
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 3: these are the issues. We are going to deal with

523
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 3: the needs of the children. We are going to deal

524
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,119
Speaker 3: with the needs of the eli. We are going to

525
00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 3: deal with climb, we are going to deal with paid

526
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 3: family and medically, we're all going to deal with housing.

527
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 3: Virtually every major crisis that we are facing, he is

528
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 3: prepared to deal with. I have not seen a president

529
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 3: in my lifetime who has done that. Am I wrong?

530
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 1: I see that perspective, But I also see a president

531
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: who's willing to let a lot of those agenda items

532
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,680
Speaker 1: be killed by the filibuster and the parliamentarium.

533
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 3: Well, but again, I don't want to get defend them.

534
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 3: I think the point you made a few minutes ago

535
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 3: is exactly right in this critical moment when we're dealing

536
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 3: with the future of the planet, when we're dealing with

537
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 3: the future of democracy. You know what, I think majority

538
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 3: should rule and not that I believe that strongly. But

539
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 3: don't think that he can snap his fingers no matter

540
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 3: what he may or may not believe, and make things happen.

541
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 1: All right, the centered there are certain things he could

542
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,880
Speaker 1: do though through executive at for example, canceling student debt.

543
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, that's right.

544
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 1: There are things he can legalizing marijuana. She could potentially

545
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 1: do a story executive order. And so there hasn't been

546
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,159
Speaker 1: a willingness even though he says, yes, I support the

547
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: fifteen dollars minimum wage, Yes, I support the Proact, to

548
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,199
Speaker 1: use all the tools that are at his disposal to

549
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 1: actually make those things happen.

550
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 5: You're absolutely sure that is that fair?

551
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 3: No? I mean, in other words, you do not know

552
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,120
Speaker 3: about the discussions that he has with people who walk

553
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,479
Speaker 3: into his office. So it's wrong to assume that when

554
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 3: you're dealing with the United States senator who does not

555
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 3: want to end the fillibuster, that he can go in

556
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 3: there and say, hey, I want you to do that. No,

557
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 3: so don't give the president.

558
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,199
Speaker 5: Although he could do what you proposed.

559
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: When you were asked on the trail, how would you

560
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 1: deal with Senator Mansion, you said, I go to West Virginia,

561
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: I do the rally. I'd call him out right.

562
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 3: I mean, there are things you could do. All that

563
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,880
Speaker 3: I'm saying, do not minimize. I mean, and I don't

564
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 3: want to get into personalities, but sure, any member of

565
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,360
Speaker 3: the United States Senate has the power to kill this thing.

566
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 3: And to think that the president alone can change that,

567
00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 3: there's not one hundred percent correct.

568
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 1: Sure, but there are executive actions that he could look student.

569
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: Another thing that we can agree on.

570
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 3: I am not yes, you know, yeah, Joe Biden and

571
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,440
Speaker 3: I marijuana. I think the war on drugs has been

572
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 3: just the disaster for this country, for the African American community.

573
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 3: I think it should end. I think marijuana should be legalizing. Right,

574
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 3: we do that Philly simply. But so we have differences.

575
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 3: But on this piece of legislation, at the end of

576
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 3: the day if we are successful, if you know this

577
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 3: will be a major, major achievement.

578
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, universal pre K two three years too.

579
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:31,640
Speaker 4: You don't want to be community, you're.

580
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 3: Working mom and dad out there. What we are talking

581
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 3: about it again, it's not going to happen overnight. And

582
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 3: there's not enough money in this bill that I would

583
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 3: like as much as I would like to see. But

584
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 3: what we're doing is expanding public education from K through

585
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,119
Speaker 3: twelve to three years old. So you got a three

586
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 3: year old, you've got a four year old kid will

587
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 3: go to school, not gonna cost you a nickel. How's

588
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 3: that maximum of seven percent for childcare when people are

589
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 3: paying twenty or thirty percent? Do you think that's significant?

590
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 3: And by the way, what we haven't discussed when we

591
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 3: talk about rebuilding the physical infrastructure and addressing climate, transforming

592
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 3: our energy system, galking about millions and millions of good

593
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 3: pay in many cases union jobs. Is that transformative? So

594
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 3: I don't want to argue with you about whether he

595
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 3: could do more. He could, all right, but I don't

596
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 3: want you or anyone else to think that what we

597
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 3: are talking about here is not extraordinarily significant and transformative

598
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:29,160
Speaker 3: for the lives of working families.

599
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: Your political role has changed a lot over the past decade.

600
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 3: It has I'm getting bold and my hair is getting whiter.

601
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: You're right, you are very much in the room now.

602
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 1: You know, in terms of implementing the Biden agenda, there's

603
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: almost no one who's more central to all of that

604
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: than you. Do you still see yourself as an outsider.

605
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 3: Look, you're absolutely right. My role has been transformed. I

606
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 3: am frankly much more comfortable being in front of twenty

607
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 3: five or thirty thousand people at a rally doing five

608
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 3: town today. I love doing that. I love That's where

609
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 3: I get my energy from. Yes, I do. I love it.

610
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 3: It's I get you know, people say, oh, Bernie, you

611
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 3: inspired me. Trust me. Those folks, young people especially inspire me.

612
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 3: I love it. But that's not my role right now

613
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 3: Chairman of the Budget Committee. So I'm trapped in a

614
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 3: room with a lot of middle aged or aging members

615
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 3: of the United States Senate trying to work out a

616
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 3: transformative agreement. And it is in a sense, I don't

617
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 3: know that I was born to do that, but that's

618
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 3: the role that I have, and I am proud that

619
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 3: many of the ideas you know, these ideas that we're

620
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 3: talking about are They're not all that I had talked about,

621
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 3: They're not funded in the way I would have liked.

622
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 3: But many of them are there on the table right now.

623
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 3: And I think it's fair to say that unless there

624
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 3: was a progressive movement in this country, not just me,

625
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 3: but so many other great progresses, these things would not

626
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 3: be discussed right now. Does that mean to say that

627
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 3: we still don't have a very long way to go? Absolutely,

628
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 3: we do. I get back the crooks and the pharmaceutical

629
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,479
Speaker 3: industry or ripping off the American people, the absurdity of

630
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 3: our current privatized health insurance system, the fact that no

631
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 3: matter what we do on climate in this bill, which

632
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 3: will be unprecedented, that it is not enough. How do

633
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 3: you deal with the issue that we can't do it alone.

634
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 3: You got to work with China, India, other countries. Huge issues,

635
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 3: But if we can pass this bill, it'll be an

636
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 3: important step forward.

637
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 1: Were there considerations around or is it still on the

638
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: table even to put the public option into this bill?

639
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: You and I both support Medicare for all. I'd rather

640
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: see that Joe Biden ran on the public option. It

641
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: seems like that's kind of fallen off the table.

642
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 3: I won't want my preferences to expand public healthcare.

643
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: So you would rather see the Medicare age lowered for example, Yes, gotcha,

644
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: that makes sense. I wanted to ask you mentioned the

645
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 1: pharmaceutical industry. I got a couple more, just very specific

646
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 1: questions for you. There's a plant that's closing in West Virginia.

647
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 1: It's eleven hundred jobs and generic pharmaceutical maker. One of

648
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: the things that we found, of course, during the pandemic

649
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: is that a lot of critical ppe and other medicines

650
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: not made in this country that made us incredibly vulnerable.

651
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: Seems like a candidate and the workers in the union,

652
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: they're asking for the Biden administration to invoke the Defense

653
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 1: Production Act.

654
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 5: Does that make sense to you? Is that something that

655
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 5: you would encourage?

656
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 3: Let me get I can't give you the finner of answer,

657
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,719
Speaker 3: but in general, yeah, I mean, I think, as you've indicated,

658
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 3: it is unbelievable how poorly prepared we were. That we

659
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 3: have doctors and nurses who couldn't have masks decent and

660
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 3: ninety five masks or gowns or gloves is beyond comprehension.

661
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 3: So it goes without saying and by the way, We're

662
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 3: putting a lot of money into research and development in

663
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 3: terms of future pandemic so that we are a lot

664
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 3: better prepared, and that would mean that we produce these

665
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 3: products here in the United States.

666
00:31:54,680 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: You mentioned your disenchantment with Beltway media something and I

667
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: share and I know you have long standing criticisms there.

668
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: There's a minor strike going on right now, something like

669
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: eleven hundred miners down in Alabama, been going on for

670
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: four months. They are picketing in front of Black Rock

671
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: in Manhattan right now as we're talking, and at least

672
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: as of last week, there hadn't been a single cable

673
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: news segment on this four month long strike, first of

674
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: its kind in forty years. What sort of I mean,

675
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 1: what's going on with that? Why do they ignore these

676
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: incredibly significantly?

677
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 3: I don't want to overly generalize it. Yeah, there are

678
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 3: great reporters who work really, really hard, and every now

679
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 3: and then you really see outstanding investigative reporting. Sure, but

680
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 3: in general, I would say that for corporate media in general,

681
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 3: there is not a lot of respect or connection with

682
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 3: working class people. Those issues that impact people get their

683
00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 3: hands dirty are not terribly high priorities for a lot

684
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 3: of the corporate media. I mean again, I would point

685
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 3: back to here, we are working on a piece of

686
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 3: legislation which is transformative for working families, very very little interest.

687
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 3: But the process is what is interesting. Gossip is very interesting.

688
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 3: But you have a strike is we're taking on Wall

689
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 3: Street and getting very little coverage. It does not surprise me.

690
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it also doesn't fit into a political horse race

691
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 1: kind of narrative, which I think is kind of their

692
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: comfort zone in terms of covering.

693
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 3: The corporate media is not particularly interested in class issues.

694
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 3: So here you have mine is thinking on a major

695
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 3: Wall Street entity.

696
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: So yeah, last question I have for you. One thing

697
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 1: that I've always really appreciated about you and the way

698
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 1: that you've thought about the Trump era, as you've recognized

699
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: him as a symptom of these broader underlying problems. And

700
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: as I was looking at some of the statistics this week,

701
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: every metric that was bad when we got Trump has

702
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: gotten worse. So inequality now we're not just in the

703
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: yielded age, We've surpassed the yielded age.

704
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 5: We had the worst year ever.

705
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:11,399
Speaker 1: For addiction overdoses, mental health has collapsed. All of these

706
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 1: indicators that tell you, you know, you've got a society

707
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: where you have a lot of people who are hopeless,

708
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 1: a lot of people in despair.

709
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 3: We did a hearing, by the way, on life expectancy, yeah,

710
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 3: and which got no by the way, I got virtually

711
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 3: no coverage none. So. But the point to be made

712
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 3: is that if you're wealthy, you're going to live ten

713
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,839
Speaker 3: fifteen years longer in America than if you're poor. Can

714
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 3: you do that?

715
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:32,919
Speaker 5: Wow?

716
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 3: No? One was particularly very little medior interest in that.

717
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 5: Wow.

718
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: So given that those metrics have gotten worse, and given

719
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 1: that our former president seems very interesting running again, do

720
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:46,360
Speaker 1: you think you could get reelected?

721
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 3: Sure? Look I think you have And this would be

722
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 3: a whole other, longer discussion. Yeah, You've got million, many

723
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,879
Speaker 3: millions of people who are working longer hours for low

724
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 3: for lower wages. They are hopeless about the future. Their

725
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 3: kids are not doing well. They are turning to drugs,

726
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 3: to alcohol, even to suicide. They're going nowhere in a hurry.

727
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 3: Somebody's got to talk to those people. Somebody's got to

728
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 3: talk to those people. And I think the Democratic Party

729
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 3: has not done a particularly good job in that. I

730
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 3: hope if I ever have the damn time and we

731
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 3: can pass this bill, actually get out into Trump Land

732
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,879
Speaker 3: and to start talking to working class people, because when

733
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 3: people are frustrated and angry, they turn to bad things,

734
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 3: and that's where racism and sexism, and homophobia and xenophobia

735
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 3: rear their ugly heads. And what we have got to

736
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 3: do is say to those people, Look, there is a

737
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 3: reason why you can't afford to send your kid to college.

738
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 3: There is a reason why the richer getting richer and

739
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 3: you're getting poor. Let's talk about what those reasons are.

740
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 3: How we can create a nation that works for all

741
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 3: of us. And you've got to be involved in that.

742
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 3: And in Trump you know where people don't talk about.

743
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 3: You may have known Trump has held some rallies recently,

744
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 3: huge turnouts, huge turnouts for a non campaign moment. So

745
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 3: is the a potent threat, yes, and we have got

746
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 3: to think long and hard about how we reach out

747
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 3: to those people. Many of them, not all. Some of

748
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:18,839
Speaker 3: them are going to be racist, and you're frankly, you're

749
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:20,120
Speaker 3: never going to read nothing you can do about it,

750
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 3: and that is really sad. It upsets me very much.

751
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 3: That is a reality. But not all of them are.

752
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 3: You've got to give them some hope. You've got to

753
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 3: give them an alternative, and I don't think we're doing

754
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 3: anywhere near enough. Now, what this bill is about, this

755
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,759
Speaker 3: crumpled piece of paper, this is the legislative language, you

756
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 3: got it. What is about is saying to those people,

757
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 3: you've given up on government, but you know what, we

758
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 3: have not given up on you. We know you can't

759
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 3: afford to send your kids to college, You're going to

760
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 3: be able to do that at least for two years.

761
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 3: You can't afford childcare, you can't afford teeth in your mouth.

762
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 3: We're going to address that. Is that all that we

763
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 3: have to do? No, is this an important step forward

764
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 3: in order to restore the faith of millions of people

765
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 3: that the government can work for them, not just you know,

766
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 3: billionaire campaign contributors. That's what this is about.

767
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,520
Speaker 5: Senator, thank you, great to see you, Thank you for

768
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:10,879
Speaker 5: your time.

769
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 3: Thank you.

770
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: So that was Senator Sanders covered quite a lot of

771
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 1: ground there. I thought it was interesting there at the

772
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 1: end him talking about the conditions that exist in the

773
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: country that led to Trump. I mean, this is actually

774
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 1: a controversial view bizarrely that like economic conditions might fuel

775
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:34,800
Speaker 1: political conditions, but he's clearly concerned about not enough getting done,

776
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,919
Speaker 1: and yet there's also a tension there where now rather

777
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 1: than just being the outsider throwing bombs and occupying that role,

778
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 1: which is a space he feels very comfortable, and he's

779
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,440
Speaker 1: trying to navigate this new space of like being in

780
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 1: the room and being the insider. So it was interesting

781
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:51,520
Speaker 1: to hear him articulate that kind of tension.

782
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, that's one of the things I was

783
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 6: thinking of to ask him, and that's something that you

784
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:02,000
Speaker 6: touched on. Is I really do think he he has

785
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 6: contradictory views right now. On the one hand, he still

786
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 6: thinks to himself as like the crusading outsider, Yeah, trying

787
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:08,280
Speaker 6: to take down the system.

788
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, and not your whole life.

789
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: I'm sure that gets that's what's in your.

790
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 6: Head, right, But on the other hand, he's got to

791
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 6: be honest with himself about the fact that's not the

792
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 6: role he's playing now. The role he's playing now is

793
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 6: I'm the cheerleader for the administration, and yeah, I try

794
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 6: to hold them to the left flank.

795
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 4: Of what is possible.

796
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 6: But what is possible is a lot different from Bernie

797
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 6: Sanders of twenty sixteen and Bernie.

798
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 4: Sanders of his entire fucking career.

799
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,439
Speaker 6: Yeah, where he was the one dragging the spectrum saying, no, bitch,

800
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:32,760
Speaker 6: I'm gonna make some shit possible.

801
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

802
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 6: Now he's like, okay, Realt, it's up the pragmatic terms,

803
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 6: and in the pragmatic terms, I'll be the left flank

804
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 6: of that.

805
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 1: I thought it was funny. There's a moment, I guess

806
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: not funny revealing. There's a moment when he's like sometimes progressive,

807
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 1: like they want everything, you'd be perfect, they want everything.

808
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was you, bitch, that was you, motherfucker.

809
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 5: That's what's the fire.

810
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: I was like, this is very different from you know,

811
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 1: the role that you've occupied previously, and it's like, yeah,

812
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 1: of course we want things to be better. Of course

813
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: we want you know you to do everything you can,

814
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 1: for Biden to do everything he can.

815
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 5: That's that's our job.

816
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 1: That's our role is because if we don't push and

817
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 1: demand the very bare minimum of what working class people deserve,

818
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 1: no one else is going to do it.

819
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,759
Speaker 6: So the best part of the interview is, I think

820
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 6: very clearly when you ask about Biden and you know

821
00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,879
Speaker 6: he contradict for yours is again, on the one hand,

822
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 6: you want that old side of him wants to come

823
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 6: out and be like, here are the things that we

824
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 6: need to do.

825
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:32,720
Speaker 4: But then on the other hand, he's sort.

826
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 6: Of like, hey, uh, you know, there has there been

827
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 6: a president who's ready to deal with climate and wages

828
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,280
Speaker 6: and paid leave and all these things like him. And

829
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 6: you know, you go back and forth. Three times, you

830
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 6: check made him there, three times, you hold him accountable,

831
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 6: and you basically say like he's like, oh, I kept

832
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 6: it all on his own, and you're like, yes, he can.

833
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 6: He has executive orders, he could, he could get rid

834
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,359
Speaker 6: of student dead if he wanted to today. He could

835
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 6: legalize marijuana if he wanted to today. The other thing is,

836
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,839
Speaker 6: like you said, he could go to West Virginia and

837
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 6: you rally in West Virginia and rile up West Virginians

838
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 6: against Joe Manchin. If Joe Manchin stands in the way,

839
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,959
Speaker 6: you know he can do the old LBJ or FDR move.

840
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 6: Call Kirston Cinemon Mansion into the office. Hey, I'm gonna

841
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 6: make you an offer you can't refuse. I'll be your

842
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:15,399
Speaker 6: best friend or I'll be your worst enemy. You pick,

843
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 6: and he can do all of that. He's chosen to

844
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 6: do none of that. So when Bernie sits there and

845
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 6: he's like, oh, he's trying and he's doing a lot,

846
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:23,640
Speaker 6: and you're like, no, he's not.

847
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:25,359
Speaker 4: Oh, okay, you're right, you're right.

848
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 6: See that's the thing that was so sad, honestly is

849
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 6: and I don't he's not doing he's not lying when

850
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 6: he says this stuff.

851
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 4: I think he's just confused and contradictory.

852
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 6: And on the one hand, like I said, he's got

853
00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 6: that thing where old Bernie is still in him, but

854
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 6: new Bernie's like, well, give the president credit because I

855
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 6: think he's obviously he thinks Biden is better than Obama,

856
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 6: Obviously he thinks Biden's better than Bill Clinton. But the

857
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 6: idea is a FDR. That's one of the bars exactly.

858
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 6: That's one of the questions I wanted to ask him.

859
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 6: I wanted to ask him, is Joe Biden closer to

860
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 6: the new Bill Clinton or the new FDR? And if

861
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 6: he says the new FDR, I would have been like, bullshit,

862
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 6: here's the list of He's not like that.

863
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 4: So but I think that was definitely the best part of.

864
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 6: The interview because you basically you pressed him and you

865
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 6: checkmated him three times, and I don't even think he

866
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 6: realized he was checkmated because he would literally flip like that, Oh,

867
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 6: he's doing a lot, He's doing all he can, and

868
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 6: you're the things that he's.

869
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 4: Doing and you're like, well, he could do more. Oh yeah, no,

870
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 4: you could definitely do that.

871
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:21,560
Speaker 6: It would just immediately with flip flop, flip flop, flip flop,

872
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 6: and you caught him three times.

873
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 1: The thing that is interesting in interviewing him is he

874
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 1: is different than most fault He does not like to spin,

875
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: and he doesn't typically spin. So when he's saying he

876
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: really thinks Biden is better than Obama and than Clinton.

877
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 4: I don't I use those words. He didn't use it.

878
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I don't he said of any president in

879
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: our lifetime. That's what he means by that, right, we

880
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: certainly Reagan and Bush.

881
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 6: Just just to interject, he said, oh, he's ready to

882
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 6: deal with climate wages and pay leave, and it's like,

883
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:52,879
Speaker 6: we haven't gotten anything on any of those things yet, right.

884
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 6: So that's the other problem is that he's taking these

885
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 6: like proposals which are still up in the air and

886
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 6: likely going to get slapped down, and giving him credit

887
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:00,200
Speaker 6: for those things why are you doing that?

888
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,240
Speaker 1: So that was why I tried to frame it as,

889
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 1: how do you assess the Biden administration.

890
00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 4: So far so far right?

891
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,840
Speaker 1: I get you have a lot of hopes for this bill,

892
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 1: and I think we would both agree there's some really

893
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 1: you know, significant items that are that Bernie wants in

894
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:16,320
Speaker 1: the reconciliation package.

895
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 5: That's a long way from happening.

896
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: And we've seen already the way fifteen dollars minimum wage

897
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 1: got stripped down of the relief bill, and that mattered

898
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 1: a lot because that was effectively the only permanent change

899
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: that was even being proposed as part of that bill.

900
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: So were there good things in the relief bill that

901
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 1: were really critical in that moment?

902
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 5: Yes, of course.

903
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 1: I mean we saw the way that the checks were

904
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 1: helpful for poverty. The short term child tax credit also

905
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 1: significant and dramatically decreased poverty. Those are all short term things.

906
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, you made that point, he ignored.

907
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 1: It, So to paint that as FDR is you know,

908
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 1: that's just not true. So I think he's perspectively looking

909
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 1: at and here are the things that I believe we've

910
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 1: got in this bill that I've been pushing for that

911
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,359
Speaker 1: I think we have a pathway to getting done we're

912
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,839
Speaker 1: looking at like, yeah, but here's the reality of where

913
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:12,839
Speaker 1: things have been. And also, by the way, and this

914
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 1: is part of what he admits to is he says, oh,

915
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:18,240
Speaker 1: we've got to keep in mind in early in the interviews,

916
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 1: oh we got to keep in mind or the bird

917
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 1: rule and the parliamentarian. I know it's difficult for people

918
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: outside the Beltway to understand. And I said, well, yeah,

919
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 1: but why do Why are we letting a parliamentarian hem

920
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: in what the agenda should be And he's like, I,

921
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: you know, I agree, I think that's ridiculous. But that

922
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 1: then gets ignored when when he says I think Biden's

923
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 1: doing everything he can, It's like, well, no, we already

924
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 1: acknowledged that he could not. You could get rid of

925
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,879
Speaker 1: the parliamentarian. You could push for Pilovester reform. Who knows

926
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 1: if it will work or not, but you could go

927
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 1: to you could go to West Virginia the way that

928
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 1: Bernie proposed on the campaign trail. So there and then

929
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 1: putting all of that aside, there are executive actions he

930
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:00,879
Speaker 1: could do today that he just is it.

931
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 5: That's the reality.

932
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 6: So it's even worse than we're letting on here because

933
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 6: you keep bringing Oh, they could fire the parliamentarian.

934
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:10,399
Speaker 4: They don't even have to fire the parliamentarian. They could

935
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 4: ignore the parliamentarian.

936
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 6: They could do specific carve outs on the filibuster and

937
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 6: say voting rights says nothing to do with the filibuster

938
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 6: doesn't apply to this anymore. There's one hundred and sixty

939
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 6: exceptions to the filibuster right now. Yeah, you could also

940
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 6: just increase the number of reconciliation attempts you have from

941
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 6: two or three to fucking ten, and then all of

942
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 6: a sudden, you got all these other things that you

943
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:30,239
Speaker 6: can do, and you got a lot more chances to

944
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 6: get good policy through. So there are so many ways

945
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 6: around it, and he's not acknowledging it. And I noticed

946
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 6: something now. His fall back line is like you say, hey,

947
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 6: the parliamentarian is a staffer and they have no power. Effectively,

948
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:46,280
Speaker 6: their job is just to explain to you what precedent

949
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 6: is and what did he say? You're right with their

950
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 6: fifty other senators who disagree mm hm. And I think

951
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 6: that's my biggest objection is that, yeah, when he's having

952
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 6: conversations with people who agree with him ideologically, you'll be like, yeah,

953
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 6: I agree with you. But then when you know you're

954
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,319
Speaker 6: in the room boom with these other people, instead of

955
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:06,439
Speaker 6: acknowledging that these are ideological enemies who need to be

956
00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 6: pressured and need to be you need to find a way,

957
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 6: like Biden should to make them fall in line. And

958
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 6: he has the power to, you know, exert some pressure

959
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 6: on them. That's where I start getting pissed off, is

960
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 6: because I feel like he's gaslighting us because don't tell

961
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 6: me you ideologically agree with me on this shit, and

962
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 6: then also make the excuse which is exactly what you

963
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 6: just explained that he did, and to and use that

964
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:30,359
Speaker 6: line multiple times. By the way, in the interview, Oh

965
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 6: you're right, you said do you have any red lines?

966
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 6: This was one of the early questions, JA, do you

967
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 6: have any red lines on this thing? Basically asking hey,

968
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:38,759
Speaker 6: will you tank the bill of certain things if they

969
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:40,919
Speaker 6: put certain things in there, take certain things out of there?

970
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:43,920
Speaker 6: And he basically said I do, but so do fifty

971
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 6: other senators. So it's always like, oh, woe is me?

972
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 6: I'm just this one senator and you know what am

973
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 6: I supposed to do? And if Biden is who Bernie

974
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 6: Sanders seems to think he is, he would have already

975
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 6: dismissed the parliamentarian or said we're going to do more

976
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,880
Speaker 6: cracks of reconciliation, or put more exceptions in there for

977
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:05,239
Speaker 6: the filibuster, or reform the philibuster back to the talking filibuster,

978
00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 6: or did the thing with Mansion or ready where he

979
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:10,879
Speaker 6: did the right life Mansion, he could any of that shit,

980
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 6: he could have done, and he's done none of it,

981
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 6: which tells me he's not the guy that you know

982
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:16,720
Speaker 6: is Bernie, and not even have to think that Biden's

983
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 6: really this guy, because Biden's probably just telling Bernie what

984
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:20,319
Speaker 6: he wants to hear when he's in the meeting with him.

985
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 1: Well that I think that's a really good point of

986
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 1: It is true that Bernie on his own right as

987
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: one actor in this process trying to corral fifty Democrats,

988
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 1: including Mansion and Cinema.

989
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's that's an impossible task.

990
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 1: But what he's presenting is that he has a lockstep

991
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 1: ally in Joe Biden also doing everything that it takes.

992
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 1: And that's the part that just I mean, it just

993
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 1: doesn't hold up to scrutiny. If that was the dynamic,

994
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:53,879
Speaker 1: then it wouldn't be Bernie Sanders and the left, who's

995
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 1: under it to be Joe Manchon, who's under pressure, it'd

996
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 1: be Kirsten Cinema, who's under pressure, who's in a tough spot,

997
00:46:58,239 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 1: who's getting called out publicly.

998
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 5: It would be you know, you wouldn't have.

999
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 1: These concerns about the parliamentarian and about the philibuster. I mean,

1000
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: and I asked him specifically. You know, he seemed to

1001
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 1: agree and acknowledge that the pro a lot of provisions

1002
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:18,839
Speaker 1: of the Proact, the renewable Energy standard, immigration reform, that

1003
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:22,280
Speaker 1: it was questionable whether these items would make it through

1004
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,719
Speaker 1: the Parliamentarian and the Bird rule. And you know, we

1005
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:32,359
Speaker 1: see the way that that limitation has been intentionally imposed

1006
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 1: so that the Biden administration can go to their allies,

1007
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 1: you know, whether it's people who are advocating on immigration

1008
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,760
Speaker 1: reform or people who are advocating on fifteen dollars minimum wage,

1009
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 1: people who are advocating in climate and go, look, I

1010
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: really tried, but we just can't.

1011
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:47,399
Speaker 5: Get it done.

1012
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:52,200
Speaker 6: So some of the questions that I wanted to ask him, now,

1013
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:54,359
Speaker 6: a bunch of them you touched on and you made

1014
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:55,600
Speaker 6: them your own, and you asked them.

1015
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 4: I'll just leave those out here.

1016
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 6: Yeah, one of the things I wanted to ask him

1017
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 6: is just very simply, give me a current criticism you

1018
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 6: have of Joe Biden. Yeah, because he does seem to

1019
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 6: be taking this role of now I'm going to be

1020
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 6: an advocate for Biden and basically imply or outright make

1021
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 6: the argument that yes, Biden is more ideologically in agreement

1022
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 6: with me than he is with Manchin than Cinema. When

1023
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 6: he talks to Manchin, he makes Manchin think on with you,

1024
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 6: And when he talks to Bernie, he makes Bernie think

1025
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:22,120
Speaker 6: I'm with you.

1026
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 4: That's well.

1027
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:26,960
Speaker 1: You remember you remember in some meeting with Republicans, I

1028
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:30,800
Speaker 1: guess around the infrastructure bill. Remember, they came away thinking

1029
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 1: that he had agreed even with them, right on what

1030
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 1: he does, whatever their papers or whatever it was that

1031
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,359
Speaker 1: they were negotiating, and then the White House staff had

1032
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:40,359
Speaker 1: to come clean up after and be like, no, no, no,

1033
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 1: that's not his position. So I do think I think

1034
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 1: it's Biden's disposition to try to make whoever is in

1035
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 1: the room with him.

1036
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:48,919
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.

1037
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:51,359
Speaker 6: And you know, one of the ways I would press

1038
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 6: Bernie on that question, give me a current criticism you

1039
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 6: have of Biden. Is you know you support a Medicare

1040
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 6: for all. Joe Biden said he supported a public option.

1041
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 6: Now neither one of them is on the agenda. We're

1042
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 6: not talking about any of them, right, So are you

1043
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 6: going to criticize him for that?

1044
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 4: Right? That's something that I wanted to.

1045
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 1: Ask his explanation on the public option. He made it

1046
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 1: seem like it was my choice to instead of pursuing.

1047
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 4: The public option, he expanded Medicare.

1048
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 1: To expand Medicare and not, actually, to my knowledge, it's

1049
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:19,760
Speaker 1: news making that Medicare expansion is still on the table

1050
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 1: because the reporting had been that the lowering the age

1051
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:27,080
Speaker 1: had basically been stripped out, so that apparently is still

1052
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 1: potentially insane.

1053
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:30,319
Speaker 6: But that's where I did think Bernie's just wishful thinking there,

1054
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,399
Speaker 6: you think so absolutely? I mean, this is the same

1055
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:35,319
Speaker 6: thing everybody. It was all this this Kabooki theater about

1056
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 6: the three point five trillion dollar Partisan Reconciliation Human Infrastructure Bill.

1057
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 6: Everybody was pretending like, yes, we're on the brink of agreeing,

1058
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 6: and then two seconds later, heresin Cinema comes out and

1059
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 6: she's like, I don't support that right, and everybody's like,

1060
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 6: oh yeah, how the fuck, did you guys not know that?

1061
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:54,799
Speaker 4: Of course that's the case. So there's this weird kobuki theater.

1062
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:56,360
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, Bernie might be saying, I want it to

1063
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 6: still be on the table, and maybe the people I've

1064
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 6: talked to recently think it's all on the tabe That

1065
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 6: shit is not still on the table.

1066
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 4: No way.

1067
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 6: If it is and it gets through, then I'll be

1068
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:08,120
Speaker 6: the happiest man on the planet. But that I definitely

1069
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:10,840
Speaker 6: don't think that's the case. Another question I wanted to

1070
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 6: ask him is about they just had a march in

1071
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 6: over forty cities for Medicare for All last week. I'm

1072
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 6: curious why he didn't say anything about it, Why he

1073
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 6: didn't voice support for it. Why none of the people,

1074
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 6: the lefties in Congress did it. You know, regardless of

1075
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 6: what you think of the organization or the people involved,

1076
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 6: it's march for Medicare for All. Yeah, it's like that's

1077
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:32,240
Speaker 6: your thing, and now mum's the words.

1078
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was actually that was one that I was

1079
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 1: regretful that I wasn't able to get to. I mean,

1080
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 1: I would love to have gotten to all of them,

1081
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:40,839
Speaker 1: but that was what I was really sorry to not get.

1082
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 5: His response on because it.

1083
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,840
Speaker 1: Is strange to live in a moment where it seems

1084
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 1: like we were so close to having that thing and

1085
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 1: now it's like it seems like it's completely evaporated. And

1086
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 1: you don't have Bernie, who was the leader who really

1087
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 1: put that on the table, talking about it. You don't

1088
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:00,439
Speaker 1: have him laying out Okay, here's how the the path

1089
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 1: for how we get here. So I would have been

1090
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:04,240
Speaker 1: interested here as response, for sure.

1091
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:08,360
Speaker 6: I wanted to ask why or if maybe is a

1092
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 6: better question the Progressive House Democrats, why is it they

1093
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:18,799
Speaker 6: don't organize better, band together, vote as a block, and

1094
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 6: why can't he play a leadership role in that as

1095
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 6: a senator? Yeah, to sort of get even if you

1096
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:27,439
Speaker 6: just slap together a coalition of six, there's a three

1097
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 6: vote margin in the House, right, So if you guys

1098
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 6: did act like the Tea Party and you did vote together, then.

1099
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:38,319
Speaker 4: You can effectively get whatever you want.

1100
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 6: Like I say that, you know, my pipe dream to

1101
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 6: get as much change as quickly as possible would have

1102
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 6: been if you had a group of six or ten

1103
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 6: or twelve Progressive House Democrats and Bernie could be you know,

1104
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 6: a leader of theirs in the Senate where they say

1105
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:56,760
Speaker 6: Not a single thing is going to get through Congress

1106
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,359
Speaker 6: in lesson until Joe Biden takes out that Executive order

1107
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 6: pencil and pencil pen and eliminates student loan debt and

1108
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 6: legalizes marijuana. And I don't want to hear it. I

1109
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 6: don't want to hear a single peep against this. It's

1110
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 6: on him. It's not on us. It's on him. If

1111
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 6: he does it, fine, we're in business. If not, blame him,

1112
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 6: because guess what, these things pull very very popular. So

1113
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,319
Speaker 6: we are standing up for democracy. We are standing up

1114
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 6: for the American people. And even if the media shits

1115
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 6: on them, and they will, Republicans will shit on them.

1116
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 6: Democratic leadership will shit on them. If they had spine,

1117
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:32,080
Speaker 6: they could do that. And guess what, eventually, after week

1118
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:34,919
Speaker 6: two or three, Biden would talk to them and maybe

1119
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:37,080
Speaker 6: you don't get everything, but maybe you do get fifty

1120
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 6: thousand dollars worth of student loan debt canceled, and maybe

1121
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 6: again we decriminalized instead illlegalized around the country, which is

1122
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:43,479
Speaker 6: a fucking win.

1123
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:44,359
Speaker 4: I would take.

1124
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:46,239
Speaker 6: Yeah, But they don't do this, and I want to

1125
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:47,839
Speaker 6: know why the fuck aren't you doing this?

1126
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 4: I don't I genuinely think they don't realize how much

1127
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:50,239
Speaker 4: power they have.

1128
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 5: Do you think that's it?

1129
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 6: I do, Yeah, I do. I don't listen. I don't

1130
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 6: think Bernie's corrupt. I don't think he's serving corporate interests.

1131
00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 6: I think he means what he says. Yeah, And I

1132
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,320
Speaker 6: just think fundamentally he's got a little bit of Washington

1133
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 6: brain going on, and you suddenly you stop thinking big,

1134
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:07,920
Speaker 6: and you stop thinking of what you try to color

1135
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 6: within the lines. You don't want to be the sore

1136
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:11,919
Speaker 6: thumb that sticks out and do something that that looks

1137
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:13,720
Speaker 6: like that it fails, you feel stupid.

1138
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:17,520
Speaker 1: In some ways, that portion of the conversation where I

1139
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 1: asked him, do you still see yourself as an outsider?

1140
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 1: I sort of felt like was the most revealing part,

1141
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:29,239
Speaker 1: because he articulated that tension and discomfort with the role

1142
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 1: that he's occupying now, Like he misses the rally, he

1143
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:34,239
Speaker 1: misses being that guy. Right, that was a role that

1144
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 1: felt very comfortable to him, and now he's in the room.

1145
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 1: And so I think you're right that there's a different

1146
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:47,120
Speaker 1: mentality that she's operating with than we've ever seen from

1147
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders' entire time in Washington. And you've seen that

1148
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:55,239
Speaker 1: we've seen that transition happen with AOC and the way

1149
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:57,400
Speaker 1: she positioned herself when she first came into the house

1150
00:53:57,480 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 1: versus how she positions herself now.

1151
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:01,759
Speaker 5: And it's it.

1152
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:04,919
Speaker 1: I thought that was very revealing, just to see how

1153
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 1: he himself is kind of viewing his role and viewing

1154
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 1: that transition and ending up you know, sounding a lot

1155
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:16,480
Speaker 1: like saying things all you progressives always want this guy

1156
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:19,319
Speaker 1: in the moon and you know, of course Biden's doing

1157
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 1: everything he can do. Oh well, you're right, he's not

1158
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:23,319
Speaker 1: actually doing everything he could do.

1159
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 6: And just one more I'll give you year. I was, uh,

1160
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 6: I wanted to ask him to your point, do you

1161
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:35,440
Speaker 6: fear at all that Biden is using your outsider status

1162
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:38,799
Speaker 6: to sort of lull the left to sleep and say, see,

1163
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:40,759
Speaker 6: even Bernie's with me, even Bernie agrees with me.

1164
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:45,239
Speaker 1: Did you read that piece from Alex Sammonson American Prospect

1165
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 1: about how Joe Biden defanged the left? No, very good piece,

1166
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 1: not specifically about Bernie, more about progressive activist groups in

1167
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 1: DC who he points out. You know, voting rights gets

1168
00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 1: totally quashed, and you don't hear a peep from civil

1169
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 1: rights groups like Women's protections and daycare and these sorts

1170
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 1: of issues get get stripped out and pushed aside, and

1171
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 1: you don't hear anything from the feminist groups and just

1172
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:12,760
Speaker 1: goes through point by point of like you know, fifteen

1173
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:15,240
Speaker 1: dollars minimum wage gets stripped down, You don't hear anything.

1174
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 5: So what's going on?

1175
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 1: And he essentially posits that these groups have all sort

1176
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 1: of been co opted by Washington brain where they've been.

1177
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:24,919
Speaker 5: Allowed in the room.

1178
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 1: Right, they're not They're given the illusion of influence, right,

1179
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:32,600
Speaker 1: they don't want to lose that positioning and that access,

1180
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 1: which they feel like is valuable even though it's not

1181
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 1: really garnering them anything at this point, and so they

1182
00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 1: keep their.

1183
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 5: Mouth shut, you know.

1184
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:43,840
Speaker 1: I mean the Infrastructure bill is perfect example. Now, I

1185
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 1: do want to say you, you did have Sunrise out

1186
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 1: protesting about the infrastructure Bill and taking a little bit

1187
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 1: of a harder line there, so I want to give

1188
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:55,359
Speaker 1: them credit for that. But almost all the climate provisions

1189
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 1: stripped down of the infrastructure bill right and pushed to

1190
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,480
Speaker 1: the Reckoncilly Bill, which is much more of a question

1191
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 1: mark than the Infrastructure Bill is, and as subject to

1192
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 1: the whims of Joe Manchin, who has already expressed concern

1193
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:13,719
Speaker 1: about the climate change portions of that bill. And oh,

1194
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:18,480
Speaker 1: by the way, the probably most transformational part of the

1195
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 1: climate agenda in the Reconciliation Bill is the renewable Energy Standard,

1196
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 1: which is at risk of being stripped out by the Parliamentarian.

1197
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 1: So in spite of all this, I mean, you hear

1198
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 1: and what is truly an existential crisis that we are

1199
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 1: all living through, And we hear lots of words and

1200
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 1: rhetoric about a World War II style mobilization because the

1201
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 1: thread is that real. But then you're gonna let the

1202
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 1: parliamentarian decide whether you're going to do what it takes

1203
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:46,200
Speaker 1: to save the world. Like what in what world does

1204
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 1: that make any kind of sense? And yet most of

1205
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 1: these groups have been really quiet because they all it

1206
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:55,120
Speaker 1: took was just like, give them some pats on the head,

1207
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:58,279
Speaker 1: invite them to some meetings, occasionally have ron Klay like

1208
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 1: tweet something nice down about them, and they've effectively been defanked.

1209
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:06,320
Speaker 4: What was the term you use? The illusion of power?

1210
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:08,640
Speaker 6: What was it they're given the illusion of You say,

1211
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:10,399
Speaker 6: you had a good phrase there, but I forget the words.

1212
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:11,440
Speaker 5: You have no idea.

1213
00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 6: Well, whatever it was, it struck a chord and listen.

1214
00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 6: I think this is honestly a bigger problem with institutions too,

1215
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:23,120
Speaker 6: that once things become an institution, once you set up

1216
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 6: a bureaucracy, things sort of take on a life of

1217
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:26,720
Speaker 6: their own.

1218
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:31,800
Speaker 4: And yeah, I mean.

1219
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 6: It's almost a contradiction in terms, right, Like, Yeah, a

1220
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:39,760
Speaker 6: group in Washington that's institutional, that's an outsider group. No,

1221
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:42,440
Speaker 6: by definition you're insiders because look at where you are.

1222
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 1: Well and what were we just looking at before we

1223
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:47,480
Speaker 1: started doing this. Our revolution, which came out of the

1224
00:57:47,520 --> 00:57:53,320
Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders movement, is now rebranding themselves as pragmatic progressives,

1225
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 1: which is so cringe because that's what Hillary called herself

1226
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 1: back in twenty sixteen that we all rolled our eyes on.

1227
00:57:59,080 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 1: Are like, what is this. They're curbing their advocacy for

1228
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 1: the Sanders platform of medicare for all green New Deal

1229
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 1: in those Boulder proposals in favor of trying to push

1230
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:14,000
Speaker 1: public option and the Biden more incrementalist positions.

1231
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:16,600
Speaker 5: So it's sad to see.

1232
00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's a great MLK quote about how now's not

1233
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 6: the time to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism m H.

1234
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:29,080
Speaker 6: And it just it fits this moment so perfectly because

1235
00:58:29,120 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 6: the guy who was the quintessential outsider crusader, unapologetic, policy focused,

1236
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 6: rigid and I mean that with a positive, positive connotation,

1237
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:42,320
Speaker 6: not a negative connotation. I mean you see it there

1238
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 6: in that interview perfectly. It's almost like this Jekyl and

1239
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 6: Hide thing where you know he'll the the positive parts

1240
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:52,440
Speaker 6: are when he admits to you like, oh.

1241
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, he could do more.

1242
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, okay, eliment Tellary and his bolster, Oh yeah, okay,

1243
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 6: we should get rid of philibuster. Oh yeah, he could

1244
00:58:58,080 --> 00:59:01,600
Speaker 6: legalize marijuana and each student loan debt. Like that's the

1245
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:04,520
Speaker 6: positive part. But everything he says before that is always

1246
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:06,440
Speaker 6: like what do you expect this guy could do all

1247
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 6: this shit?

1248
00:59:07,240 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 4: Right? So it's like he can't do it, don't be ridiculous.

1249
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 6: Okayeah, he could do it, And it's like that's the

1250
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 6: tug of war going on inside him. Yeah, And it's

1251
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:18,760
Speaker 6: sad to see because he used to have definitive answers

1252
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 6: to that, to those questions.

1253
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:22,840
Speaker 4: On one side of it, well, and I.

1254
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:23,520
Speaker 5: Do have.

1255
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 1: I do kind of understand where he's coming from because

1256
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:31,640
Speaker 1: he looks at the things that he thinks can get

1257
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 1: into the reconciliation bill and actually pass and sees you know,

1258
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 1: universal pre K, and sees paid leave, and sees the

1259
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:44,160
Speaker 1: child tax credit, and sees two years of free community college,

1260
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:47,600
Speaker 1: and sees significant investments.

1261
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 5: But he's wrong, that's not passing and the CCC.

1262
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:52,840
Speaker 1: So he's you know, really desperately trying to hold that

1263
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:57,919
Speaker 1: thing together, believing that those provisions, believing correctly that those

1264
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 1: provisions would be really significant.

1265
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 4: They would, but that's not passing if they get through.

1266
01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:04,920
Speaker 1: And so that's I think where part of the disconnect

1267
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 1: comes in, as he's sort of like preemptively getting credit,

1268
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:11,479
Speaker 1: giving credit to Biden for things that haven't actually happened yet,

1269
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:15,080
Speaker 1: and that you don't see a demonstrated willingness from Joe

1270
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:17,000
Speaker 1: Biden to fight to actually make happen in.

1271
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:19,200
Speaker 6: Order to even get the things that he said there,

1272
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:20,959
Speaker 6: which he was acting like we already got but we didn't.

1273
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 6: In order to even get those Joe Biden needs to

1274
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:25,560
Speaker 6: do the things that we said he should do. Right,

1275
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 6: she is either fire the parliamentarian, or ignore the parliamentarian,

1276
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 6: or come up with you know, you can do reconciliation

1277
01:00:32,360 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 6: ten times a year instead of two or three times

1278
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:37,080
Speaker 6: a year. Here's another exception to the filibuster. We're gonna

1279
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:39,240
Speaker 6: go back to the talking filibuster. I'm gonna go to

1280
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 6: West Virginia and I'm gonna call out Joe Manchin. I'm

1281
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 6: gonna do a rally there, or I'm gonna call him

1282
01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:45,640
Speaker 6: into the office and make them an offer they can

1283
01:00:45,720 --> 01:00:46,200
Speaker 6: refuse and do.

1284
01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 4: The characterstick approach.

1285
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:50,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, in order to even just get the things that

1286
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:53,200
Speaker 6: Bernie is acting like we already have that needs to

1287
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 6: be done, and the fact that he doesn't see that

1288
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:59,440
Speaker 6: or get that or acknowledge that is astonishing to me.

1289
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:02,320
Speaker 6: How long have you been in Washington, DC? Like you're

1290
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:06,800
Speaker 6: you're giving credit for a bill that hasn't passed and

1291
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:08,320
Speaker 6: that is falling apart right in front of our eyes

1292
01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:10,000
Speaker 6: because Houston Cinema just was like, no, I'm not going

1293
01:01:10,040 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 6: to vote for it. You're already given credit for that,

1294
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:14,200
Speaker 6: and you don't even realize even get just the things

1295
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 6: you said. We need hardball, that's beyond any hardball that

1296
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:19,400
Speaker 6: we've seen since LBJ.

1297
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:24,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Bernie Sanders alone can't get it there because

1298
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:26,920
Speaker 1: you need the backing of the Pride Biden, Yes, you do,

1299
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 1: because ultimately you're you're gonna get. You are going to

1300
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 1: get as much of the reconciliation bill as Joe Biden

1301
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:34,760
Speaker 1: is willing to fight for.

1302
01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 4: That's right, That's exactly right.

1303
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:38,320
Speaker 6: And by the way, the other crazy thing is that

1304
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:42,680
Speaker 6: he's not really willing on his own to just totally

1305
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:46,000
Speaker 6: call bullshit and talk about the farcical things that Democrats

1306
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 6: have done, like when they pulled the fifteen dollars minimum

1307
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:51,880
Speaker 6: wage out of the last reconciliation bill and they said, God,

1308
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 6: this language drives me crazy. The parliamentarian has ruled where

1309
01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:58,760
Speaker 6: the parliamentarian has decreed. I mean, the low level staffer

1310
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:00,880
Speaker 6: whose job it is just to give you advisory opinion

1311
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:01,480
Speaker 6: on precedent.

1312
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:04,040
Speaker 1: I even like giving her because it's easy to sort

1313
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:06,600
Speaker 1: of like demonize her, like she's wrong, but it's really

1314
01:02:06,680 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 1: it's not her. She's sure she made a decision that

1315
01:02:10,640 --> 01:02:13,200
Speaker 1: you know, we disagree with, and Bernie disagrees with, et cetera.

1316
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:16,400
Speaker 1: But the real villains here are the Democrats that are like, yeah,

1317
01:02:16,440 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 1: we're gonna accept whatever you say as if it's you know,

1318
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:22,120
Speaker 1: the word of God, and we can't possibly because so

1319
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:22,760
Speaker 1: beyond it.

1320
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:25,680
Speaker 6: Because they didn't want the fifteen dollar minimum wage we

1321
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 6: know that at least seven or eight of them didn't

1322
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:29,360
Speaker 6: want it because Bernie forced the vote.

1323
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 1: My understanding is that the big pushback on the fifteen

1324
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:34,400
Speaker 1: dollars minimum.

1325
01:02:34,120 --> 01:02:36,080
Speaker 4: Wage is secondary budgetary.

1326
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 1: No is from the senators is the tipped minimum wage.

1327
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 1: That they're okay with the top line, but they are

1328
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:47,520
Speaker 1: uncomfortable with increasing the tipped wage.

1329
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 5: By that much.

1330
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:51,360
Speaker 1: Why are they uncomfortable because of the restaurant bobby, which

1331
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:54,920
Speaker 1: is very influential in Washington and all of these states.

1332
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:56,520
Speaker 4: I buy that that's their excuse.

1333
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:58,120
Speaker 5: Well, no, that's not an excuse.

1334
01:02:58,120 --> 01:02:59,120
Speaker 4: I don't know that excuse.

1335
01:02:59,120 --> 01:03:01,480
Speaker 1: I don't consider that a good reason that some lobbyists

1336
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:01,880
Speaker 1: convince you.

1337
01:03:02,440 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 5: No.

1338
01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:04,680
Speaker 6: But I'm saying even that is they're trying to portray

1339
01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:07,080
Speaker 6: themselves looking even better than they are, because I think

1340
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:09,600
Speaker 6: in reality they're also just against a fifteen dollar minimum wage.

1341
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:11,520
Speaker 6: I think that, you know, it's not just the restaurant

1342
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:14,040
Speaker 6: lobby that pays them money. How many giant multinational corporations

1343
01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:17,080
Speaker 6: pay them money who pay the minimum wage? A lot

1344
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:19,440
Speaker 6: of them, So they might say, oh, I'm totally for it,

1345
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:22,160
Speaker 6: but just this one little thing, it's my ass cheek.

1346
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:25,440
Speaker 1: They pulled out the like, oh, the small business owner

1347
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:26,760
Speaker 1: in the restaurant and whatever.

1348
01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:28,200
Speaker 6: Which, by the way, I've made this point a thousand

1349
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:31,080
Speaker 6: times on my show. Let's let's accept that criticism for

1350
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 6: a second. And by the way, it's a fair criticism.

1351
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:34,600
Speaker 6: There are small businesses out there that might struggle to

1352
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:36,520
Speaker 6: pay that. The answer to that is not to say,

1353
01:03:36,560 --> 01:03:38,480
Speaker 6: scrap the whole idea of the fifteen dollar minum wage.

1354
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:39,960
Speaker 6: The answer to that is to come up with a

1355
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:42,200
Speaker 6: subsidy program for small businesses, or come up with a

1356
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 6: tax credit program. But no businesses, but they don't want

1357
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 6: to do fucking exactly. They don't give me that.

1358
01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:49,880
Speaker 4: Oh, the small businesses which we care so much about.

1359
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:52,280
Speaker 6: If you cared so much about them, you do fifteen

1360
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:54,000
Speaker 6: dollar minimum wage, and then you'd also set up some

1361
01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:56,960
Speaker 6: other program to help offset the burden on those small businesses,

1362
01:03:57,120 --> 01:03:58,280
Speaker 6: which they never fucking do.

1363
01:03:58,600 --> 01:03:59,520
Speaker 5: Yep, yep.

1364
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:03,320
Speaker 1: Anyway, very interesting speaking to the senator. I really did

1365
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 1: appreciate that he took so much time, and I was

1366
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:05,640
Speaker 1: a very busy day.

1367
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:06,680
Speaker 5: The infrastructure thing.

1368
01:04:06,640 --> 01:04:09,040
Speaker 1: Was going on, and I think I was pretty revealing

1369
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:12,920
Speaker 1: to see how he's thinking and how he's sort of

1370
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:17,680
Speaker 1: uncomfortably occupying this new role and just what a departure

1371
01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:19,880
Speaker 1: it is from who he's been and where he's been

1372
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 1: for the rest of his career.

1373
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:24,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, you did a great job in the interview. There

1374
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 6: were some moments there where you really were able to

1375
01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 6: checkmate him well without breaking a sweat. He didn't even

1376
01:04:31,080 --> 01:04:33,840
Speaker 6: realize he was getting checkmated in those moments. And yeah,

1377
01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:36,480
Speaker 6: I think the biggest takeaway from this interview, at least

1378
01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:42,919
Speaker 6: to me, is that he is living a contradiction right now.

1379
01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:45,440
Speaker 6: And on the one hand, he've used his job as

1380
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:50,440
Speaker 6: a cheerleader for his most positive image of Biden. He've

1381
01:04:50,520 --> 01:04:53,960
Speaker 6: used Biden as more the campaigning Biden who's a little

1382
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:56,480
Speaker 6: more to the left. He've used his job both as

1383
01:04:56,520 --> 01:04:58,800
Speaker 6: a cheerleader for that and a cheerleader for the policies

1384
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:01,640
Speaker 6: it still remain the bill in the negotiation. But he

1385
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:06,000
Speaker 6: also views himself as an outsider who's still crusading for

1386
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:07,680
Speaker 6: the principled original position.

1387
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:10,480
Speaker 1: He wants to be the outsider that's not going to

1388
01:05:10,560 --> 01:05:14,400
Speaker 1: rock the boat, and those two things don't make much

1389
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:17,920
Speaker 1: sense together, that's right. Yeah, all right, guys, thank you

1390
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 1: so much for watching. We have so many great interviews

1391
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:24,760
Speaker 1: for you coming up and tell the people how they

1392
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 1: can subscribe.

1393
01:05:25,480 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 4: Kyle, Yeah, so I do.

1394
01:05:27,880 --> 01:05:30,320
Speaker 6: Just go to substack and if you want to see

1395
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:34,920
Speaker 6: the video of all the interviews a day early on Friday,

1396
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:37,960
Speaker 6: pay five dollars a month for that. If you want

1397
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:40,320
Speaker 6: to just sign up on substack for free, you could

1398
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:42,560
Speaker 6: also do that and you get the audio version of

1399
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:44,600
Speaker 6: the show a day later on Saturday.

1400
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:46,600
Speaker 4: Pretty simple.

1401
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:50,120
Speaker 6: And obviously we take zero AD dollars for this show,

1402
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:52,800
Speaker 6: and you have our word we will never take a

1403
01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:57,200
Speaker 6: single penny of ad money from anybody ever. So we

1404
01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:01,240
Speaker 6: do really appreciate anybody who pays the five dollars a month.

1405
01:06:01,240 --> 01:06:03,400
Speaker 6: We know that, you know, people out there, it's tough

1406
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 6: out there, and a lot of people are struggling and

1407
01:06:05,600 --> 01:06:06,760
Speaker 6: a lot of people just can't swing it.

1408
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:08,160
Speaker 4: And I understand that. We still love that.

1409
01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:10,640
Speaker 5: We make the whole thing also completely free.

1410
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:14,240
Speaker 6: It's why it's in audio form exactly. But if you

1411
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:17,360
Speaker 6: do support us, we greatly appreciate it. And you know,

1412
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:18,920
Speaker 6: we're still trying to get in front of Barry Weiss.

1413
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:20,480
Speaker 6: We can give you guys a tour of behind the

1414
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 6: scenes stuff for all the paying members, but you know

1415
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:24,480
Speaker 6: we haven't.

1416
01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:27,959
Speaker 4: I don't think you know. Glenn made an interesting point

1417
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:28,280
Speaker 4: about this.

1418
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:32,200
Speaker 6: He was like, oh, because there's some like yearly update

1419
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:36,600
Speaker 6: thing that happens where you know it, or or since

1420
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:38,840
Speaker 6: we started so much later than her, right, didn't we

1421
01:06:38,840 --> 01:06:39,720
Speaker 6: start our show.

1422
01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:40,480
Speaker 4: Way later than her?

1423
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:42,960
Speaker 6: I don't know that you He made some point where

1424
01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:44,840
Speaker 6: I was like, oh, okay, that makes sense. His point

1425
01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:46,760
Speaker 6: was at some point you won't even realize it, and

1426
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:48,080
Speaker 6: it'll show that you leap progerr.

1427
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:48,800
Speaker 4: That was his point.

1428
01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:50,440
Speaker 5: Okay. It was nice of him to say.

1429
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:51,840
Speaker 6: I don't know if I buy that, because you said

1430
01:06:51,880 --> 01:06:54,480
Speaker 6: we were we were way behind her, even though we

1431
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:55,959
Speaker 6: were just one behind her on the list.

1432
01:06:56,160 --> 01:06:56,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, we were.

1433
01:06:57,160 --> 01:06:59,200
Speaker 5: Gonna look but okay, all right, we had ground.

1434
01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:00,520
Speaker 4: You don't have to check. It's it's point so we

1435
01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:01,440
Speaker 4: know when to do the video form.

1436
01:07:01,560 --> 01:07:04,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, I'll check, but and we'll get back to you.

1437
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:04,800
Speaker 4: We'll have an update.

1438
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:06,920
Speaker 1: Tune in next week for an update on where we

1439
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:08,640
Speaker 1: are in the Barry Weiss fight.

1440
01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 6: Yes, but still shameful that we're not in front of

1441
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 6: her yet. We don't advocate for killing Palestinian babies, so

1442
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:14,520
Speaker 6: support us on that.

1443
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:17,160
Speaker 1: All Yeah, there you go, there you go, all right, guys,

1444
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:18,640
Speaker 1: thanks for watching and enjoy the week.

1445
01:07:18,640 --> 01:07:19,400
Speaker 5: We'll see you next week.