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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and President Zelenski says to Trump, if

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Speaker 1: you can really stop the war in twenty four hours,

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Speaker 1: I invite you to Ukraine.

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Speaker 2: We have such a great show for you today.

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Speaker 1: Former Secretary of Labor Robert Reich joins us to talk

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Speaker 1: about the impact of the child tax credit and other

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Speaker 1: policies Biden.

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Speaker 2: Can enact in a second term. And also right now

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Speaker 2: then we'll talk to balls and Strikes.

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Speaker 1: Editor Jay Willis about the Supreme Court's horrifying next move.

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Speaker 1: But first we have, because it's a Monday, the host

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Speaker 1: of the Enemy's List, the one, the only, the Lincoln

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Speaker 1: Project's own, Rick Wilson, Welcome to Fast Politics, my Baddy,

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Speaker 1: Rick Wilson, it is I. It's been a fruitful week

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Speaker 1: for you and also for the Lincoln Project more generally.

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Speaker 3: I would say, So, we had an ad that now

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Speaker 3: has something like eleven million views and six hundred thousand shares,

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Speaker 3: and it's right now in beautiful New Hampshire on a

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Speaker 3: truck outside of every Trump rally.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about the truck. Sure, so the

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Speaker 1: ad is playing on a truck.

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Speaker 3: Well it's playing on TV also, But yes, right.

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Speaker 2: That seems like the kind of thing that would make

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Speaker 2: him pleasy.

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Speaker 3: Well, here's the thing we did. I give full credit

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Speaker 3: to Philip Jermaine and our team, who is the master

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Speaker 3: of these truck things. He's our trolling director for the trucks.

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Speaker 3: We've got two of them. One of them followed the

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Speaker 3: Trump bus where at least saphonic the aggression meaners of

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Speaker 3: Republican politics was. And one of them was in front,

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Speaker 3: one was behind outside the rally space. You had to

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Speaker 3: walk by the truck twice if you were in line

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Speaker 3: to go to the Trump rally. We know that this

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Speaker 3: kind of thing. And by the way, it's like deminimous

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Speaker 3: expense but his maximum trolling. We know their staffers coming

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Speaker 3: out to like you're going to get sued by mister Trump. Okay,

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Speaker 3: fuck off, go away. We've been to this road, Johns.

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Speaker 3: But the ad basically came out and it flipped this

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Speaker 3: whole like Trump is God thing and on its head,

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Speaker 3: and it's called you know, God made a dictator. It's

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Speaker 3: an inversion of their bullshit from last week, which Trump

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Speaker 3: is telling evangelicals I am God or I am God's representative,

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Speaker 3: I'm the avatar of the of all your religious desires.

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Speaker 3: You know, we just weren't going to put up with it.

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Speaker 3: It's been an ad that's been bigger than anything anybody's

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Speaker 3: done this year, and Friday bigger than anything we've done

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Speaker 3: this year. We've got a few good ads this year,

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Speaker 3: are in the last twelve months, but this one was

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Speaker 3: a really big smack into Trump's head. He's very unhappy

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Speaker 3: about it because our little birds from his campaign sing

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Speaker 3: to us again, and we know they're trying to keep

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Speaker 3: him away from commenting on it, because every time Trump

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Speaker 3: opens his mouth this week, he sounds like it's good

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Speaker 3: for you, get crazy, lunatic, which is, you know, probably

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Speaker 3: the advantage of being true.

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Speaker 1: I want to like pause for a second. Trump is

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Speaker 1: going to be the nominee. And we in the chattering

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Speaker 1: political pundon industrial complex have been saying this for about, oh,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, two and a half years, not.

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Speaker 3: All of us, but a lot of us.

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Speaker 1: Yes, correct, Yeah, because the reality is if you offer nothing,

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Speaker 1: which the other candidates did, Trump without the charisma and

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Speaker 1: Christy who never had a shot, and how you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like this saying you, if you come at the king,

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Speaker 1: you best not miss. If you come at the king

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Speaker 1: and don't even come at him, you miss.

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Speaker 3: Right, if you come at the king and don't make

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Speaker 3: an argument why you should be the king, a real argument,

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Speaker 3: not like a I'm nicer or anything. And again, we've

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Speaker 3: talked about this a lot. There's no diet Trump, Okay,

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Speaker 3: there's no like light less sugar less, caffeine less fat Trump.

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Speaker 3: They want the real thing. And so Ron DeSantis was

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Speaker 3: always trying to be Trump without being Trump.

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Speaker 2: Well he was Trump without the charisma.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, Look he was saying, I'll give you all

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Speaker 3: the culture worshit you want without being assumed to be

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Speaker 3: indicted felon. And that didn't work out either, because they

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Speaker 3: don't care their post rule of law, their post conservative.

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Speaker 3: All these people today who are like Mickey Haley's taking

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Speaker 3: the fight to Trump, I'm like, guys, you got three

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Speaker 3: days till THEO in New Hampshire primary.

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Speaker 2: She came in third in Iowa.

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Speaker 3: Right, the ballgame has already over. Stop insulting everyone's intelligence

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Speaker 3: by pretending that this thing is going to last to

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Speaker 3: Super Tuesday. DeSantis will be out by Tuesday night. As

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Speaker 3: my guess, I don't think I.

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Speaker 2: Think he's going to be out today.

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Speaker 3: Right, he might be out today. Look, let me tell you,

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Speaker 3: the first time Casey DeSantis has to fly coach on Delta,

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Speaker 3: that campaign is over, over and done.

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Speaker 2: She backed down, They backed down, back down.

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Speaker 3: The backing down has been spectacular. In the last week,

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Speaker 3: they have gone through one hundred and fifty million dollars modestly,

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Speaker 3: that's a low boundary.

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Speaker 1: Of which Jeff row got sixty seven Who's gonna say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: go on.

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Speaker 3: Sixty seven cents of every dollar that the Dasanta's campaign spent.

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Speaker 3: Jeff where O took in to his companies, whether it

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Speaker 3: was to the De Santa's campaign or the super pac,

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Speaker 3: which was, as you know, not what we call traditionally legal. Right,

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Speaker 3: it requires a novel interpretation of what we call the law.

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Speaker 3: But okay, we'll play that out. We'll pretend that doesn't

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Speaker 3: exist right now. All that happens in this space of

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Speaker 3: a campaign that was doomed from the start. Everyone knew

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Speaker 3: it except apparently Ron and Casey, and people are shocked

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Speaker 3: that it's failed. People are shocked that that it didn't work.

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Speaker 3: We've said it from the start. Every single thing about

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Speaker 3: Trump and trump Ism is a cult. It depends on

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Speaker 3: cult like adulation and adoration, and no one, no one

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Speaker 3: should be fooled that the result was going to be

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Speaker 3: anything but what it was. I'm just it's exhausting.

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Speaker 2: Let's have a minute of media on media violence.

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Speaker 3: I'm always here for that.

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Speaker 1: We saw so many think pieces about Joe Biden's age. Sure,

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Speaker 1: over the last two days, Donald Trump has confused Obahama

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Speaker 1: with Biden more than once, and he has confused Nikki

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Speaker 1: Haley with Nancy Pelosi, two people who, while they their

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Speaker 1: names start with N, have almost nothing in common.

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Speaker 3: I'm starting to think Grandpa Mumbleforts out there on stage

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Speaker 3: is not altogether. I'm starting to think Donald Trump might

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Speaker 3: be feeling a little wee touch of the old Alzheimer's

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Speaker 3: because this is a guy who there used to be

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Speaker 3: an era where serious reporters would say, oh, he said kaffevy.

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Speaker 3: That's because he's a brilliant five D thinker and its

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Speaker 3: three dimensional chess. And Trump's communicating secretly with his bait. No, No,

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Speaker 3: he's a drooling old fool. He's a guy who's got

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Speaker 3: a diaper valet now following him around because He's verbally

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Speaker 3: and physically incontinent. Nothing about this is from strength. It's

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Speaker 3: because he's just a gibbering fool. I wish the national

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Speaker 3: media would spend one minute of the time that The

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Speaker 3: New York Times has done, like insiders say, Biden's age

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Speaker 3: continues to concern and I don't see a headline double

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Speaker 3: truck front page saying Trump's seventeenth about of verbal dysentery

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Speaker 3: this week where he conflated, you know, the wrong people,

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Speaker 3: the wrong facts. He thinks he beat President Obama. Really what?

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Speaker 3: And even the Republicans are pretending this isn't real now.

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Speaker 3: They used to pretend, Oh he's playing some game or

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Speaker 3: that's Trump being Trump. Now they're saying, like, oh shit,

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Speaker 3: you know what the fuck?

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Speaker 1: I've sat through a million conversations with people.

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Speaker 2: Biden looks too old. He walks like an old man.

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Speaker 1: You know this is that you have a guy who's

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Speaker 1: out there looking like he's going to die.

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Speaker 2: Confusing and Melosi and.

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Speaker 3: Barack Obama with Joe Biden and saying Jeb Bush started

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Speaker 3: the Iraq War, right, Jeb. You can criticize Jeb for

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Speaker 3: any number of things in that campaign, but he didn't

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Speaker 3: start the Iraq War war.

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Speaker 2: I mean, so that's what I don't I don't totally get.

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Speaker 3: Oh listen, I totally get it. It's explicable as holl mollie.

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Speaker 3: This guy is great for ratings. He's great fun. The

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Speaker 3: craziness is spectacle, and the idea that he's going to

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Speaker 3: be such a nut on the trail is unbelievably appealing

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Speaker 3: to a lot of people who will they'll be mad

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Speaker 3: at me for saying this, and they're man, oh.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, go for it. Then we like it even more.

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Speaker 3: But a lot of these folks had a great run

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Speaker 3: with Trump. They got to write books, they got to

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Speaker 3: do they got to do a lot of TV, they

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Speaker 3: got to have fun. And look, people would say, oh,

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Speaker 3: you did the same thing. I was trying to warn

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Speaker 3: you fuckers off this guy. I was trying to scare

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Speaker 3: you because he would lead to the destruction of America.

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Speaker 3: And I guess I was wrong. I guess people, you know,

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Speaker 3: wanted more of the chaos, and the more they want,

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Speaker 3: the more they'll get.

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Speaker 1: I mean, no, I get you, and I get what

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Speaker 1: you're saying. But I also think it just it's surprising

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Speaker 1: to me. Here we are we all know, like if

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Speaker 1: Trump gets elected again, there won't be no more mainstream

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Speaker 1: media right right.

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Speaker 3: When he says things like I'm going to take away

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Speaker 3: MSNBC's license, he's not fucking around. You don't think Steve Bannon.

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Speaker 3: You think you people don't think Steve Bannon. Day one

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Speaker 3: is going to say to the FEC, by the way,

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Speaker 3: I want to remove all of NBC's broadcast licenses because

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Speaker 3: they are libtard cucks. And they'll say, but mister Bannon,

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Speaker 3: libtard coukery is not a reason or an excuse, and

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Speaker 3: he'll say, well, fuck you. The President's going to issue

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Speaker 3: an executive order banning libtardcock media.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: How hard is this?

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Speaker 1: And by the way, I mean, what I think is

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Speaker 1: the scariest is that the Heritage Foundation has a you know,

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Speaker 1: a twenty thirty plan or whatever it's called for. When

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Speaker 1: Trump gets back in office.

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Speaker 3: Project twenty twenty five. This time, it's personal.

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Speaker 1: Right project twenty twenty five. This time, we really fuck you.

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Speaker 1: I actually don't think that people want Trump back. I

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Speaker 1: actually think it's this weird perverse two sidesism and an

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Speaker 1: overcompensation to look nonpartisan that drives a lot of mainstream media.

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Speaker 3: I think that's a lot of it. And look, the Republicans.

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Speaker 3: I wrote about this a lot in my second book.

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Speaker 3: The Republicans have played the refs on the media side

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Speaker 3: for so long. The New York Times is now afraid

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Speaker 3: to not have a pro coup voice or whatever on

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Speaker 3: the op ed page. I mean, when you see that

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Speaker 3: piece last week from Ross, it wasn't really a coup

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Speaker 3: per se. They didn't call it one, so it wasn't

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Speaker 3: what wait what right? Fuck?

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Speaker 1: I know, well, and I mean you know it was

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Speaker 1: bad because the Atlantic was like, no.

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Speaker 3: It was right, right, Yeah. The Atlantic is more genteel

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Speaker 3: than a lot of organizations. And when they say it's

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Speaker 3: a coup, it's a coup people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they were like, yeah, actually it's kind

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Speaker 1: of a coup. But the other thing about it is

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Speaker 1: like a failed coup is still a coup.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so failed coup is a training exercise.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: Another thing that trump enablers have done, which is what

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Speaker 1: Adam Stirwell in that very good piece in the Atlantic said,

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Speaker 1: was that they've been killing themselves to sort of say

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Speaker 1: it wasn't a coup because it didn't work. And then

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Speaker 1: also this idea that the Fourteenth Amendment was about reconstruction,

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Speaker 1: and reconstruction is totally different than trying to have slates

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Speaker 1: of fake electors change the results of an election.

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Speaker 3: The bright line lettering of the fourteenth Amendment. And I

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Speaker 3: know what constitutional attorney or an attorney of any kind,

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Speaker 3: so don't take legal advice from me. The idea that

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Speaker 3: the bright line lettering of the words insurrection only referred

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Speaker 3: to the Civil War is madness.

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Speaker 1: It's madness, yeah, But it's also this phenomenon where people

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Speaker 1: just continually change the rules for trumpty. Right, Like, if

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Speaker 1: you're under thirty five, you can't run for a president, right,

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Speaker 1: if you're born in a different country, you can't run

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Speaker 1: for president, if you are involved in an insruction, you

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Speaker 1: can't run for a president, except if you're Trump, because

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Speaker 1: it's different because his people will get upside and by.

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Speaker 3: The way, the same argument that they're making now of

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Speaker 3: Trump and exceptions to the Constitution and the rule of law,

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Speaker 3: which they make that argument every day, they will make

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Speaker 3: that argument for a third full term, mark my words.

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Speaker 3: They will come out and say, well, he was treated badly,

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Speaker 3: and look he said this himself. They treated me so

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Speaker 3: unfairly that I deserve another term. And if people don't

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Speaker 3: think that's what's going to happen if he's president again,

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Speaker 3: or they'll just make it dynastic. Well, I now have

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Speaker 3: reached the age where I'm going to pass along the

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Speaker 3: presidency to my son, Prince Eric the slow you.

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Speaker 1: Know, And I want to like talk about this for

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Speaker 1: a minute, because the things Trump has been saying on

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Speaker 1: the stump.

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Speaker 2: When he's not confusing Nancy.

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Speaker 1: Pelosi with Nikki Haley or confusing Barack Obama with Joe

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Speaker 1: Biden because they seem so similar.

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Speaker 3: They all look the same to him, right.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, he does this other thing where he makes this

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Speaker 1: whole argument about how president should have complete and utter immunity.

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Speaker 1: Now we know this is because he's facing ninety one

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Speaker 1: criminal count So how does an electorate get excited about that?

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Speaker 1: Explain to me how this helps candidate Trump.

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Speaker 3: Candidate Trump is driven or his people are driven by

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Speaker 3: this imaginary sense of oppression and this imaginary sense that

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Speaker 3: there's an elite constantly out to get them. Look, the

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Speaker 3: elite wants you to not fuck your first cousin and

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Speaker 3: to brush your teeth.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I don't even care about the first cousins. I'm

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Speaker 2: tal with that.

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Speaker 3: I will say this. That world though, for them, is

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Speaker 3: very coherent, and they see any time that Trump is

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Speaker 3: held to account for anything he's done, said, or desired,

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Speaker 3: they see that as an attack on themselves. It is

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Speaker 3: a superpower in politics right now. I take it seriously.

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Speaker 3: Which is why when people say, oh, Trump's just joking,

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Speaker 3: he's just shit talking, it's just Trump being Trump. It's

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Speaker 3: never just Trump being Trump. It's never just shit talking.

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Speaker 3: This is a guy with a movement behind him. It

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Speaker 3: is an authoritarian movement. We'll say it a thousand more

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Speaker 3: times before this election's over. But that authoritarian movement is

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Speaker 3: dedicated to taking power at any cost and holding that

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Speaker 3: power as long as they can. They are not small

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Speaker 3: d democracy fans. They are not fans of liberty or freedom.

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Speaker 3: Except for Trump and his family and a limited clack

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Speaker 3: of his supporters, this is a dangerous movement. And for

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Speaker 3: all the fun that people seem to have with it,

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Speaker 3: look look at the crazy thing you said today. The

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Speaker 3: craziness is a very deep, scary element of our politics now.

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Speaker 3: People are wired in for it. People who don't take

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Speaker 3: it seriously and don't take him seriously are the ones

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Speaker 3: putting us at risk.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and the Heritage Foundation is right there with them.

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Speaker 3: By the way, the Heritage Foundation's Project twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 3: that's the gentry part of their plan. That's the country

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Speaker 3: club part of their plan. That's the part of their

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Speaker 3: plan they can take out to major donors and say, well,

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Speaker 3: this is here. We're going to reform the way processing

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Speaker 3: is done on applications in the Department of the Interior.

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Speaker 3: When they mean we're going to set up a system

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Speaker 3: where our political opponents are systematically jailed and prosecuted, We're

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Speaker 3: going to do the things that we claim are being

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Speaker 3: done to Trump because we want to exercise political power

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Speaker 3: in a way that is tyranny adjacent, and they will.

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Speaker 3: Trump was incompetent in his first term because he didn't

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Speaker 3: know what he had, and not even his most weird

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Speaker 3: and passionate supporters like Steve Bannon understood what they had,

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Speaker 3: and what they had was miss handled and put in

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Speaker 3: the hands of a variety of people who were not

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Speaker 3: so smart in Jared Kushner, et cetera. That problem will

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Speaker 3: not be there this time.

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Speaker 1: Right, I just want to pause for saying this. We're

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Speaker 1: out of time, but I just want to say one thing.

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Speaker 1: During Trump's only term. The first two years he had

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Speaker 1: the House, the Senate, the presidency and they still had

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Speaker 1: a government shutdown.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, of course it's a feature, not a.

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Speaker 2: Bug, which is incredible. Thank you. Rick Wilson, any Time by.

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Speaker 1: Robert Reich is former Secretary of Labor and substack author.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Fast Politics. Robert Reich.

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Speaker 5: Well, thank you very much, Molly.

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Speaker 2: It's really great to have you.

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Speaker 1: And I was reading about you before we started podcasting,

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Speaker 1: and you have been in every Democratic administration.

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Speaker 5: Since, yes, since Franklin D. Roosevelt. No, actually we go

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Speaker 5: back to nineteenth century. It starts with Jimmy Carter. You know,

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Speaker 5: I say, I said my students, I was in the

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Speaker 5: Clinton administration, Carter administration, and I was a special assistant

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Speaker 5: to Abraham Lincoln. And they used to laugh at that.

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Speaker 5: They don't laugh at this anymore and starting to worry me, Molly.

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Speaker 2: But it is interesting.

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Speaker 1: You really have seen the Democratic Party through a number

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Speaker 1: of decades and seeing the sort of trajectory.

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Speaker 2: I have this theory, maybe.

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Speaker 1: Because I'm gonna name drop here, but I'm going to

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Speaker 1: name drop someone that no one cares about anymore.

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Speaker 2: When I was growing up, I spent a.

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Speaker 1: Lot of time with Gorbidal and well, not a lot,

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Speaker 1: but a little time with Gorbudal, and Gorbadal had this

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Speaker 1: whole theory that America's United States of Amnesia, because we

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Speaker 1: remember nothing, we never.

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Speaker 2: Look back at all.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if you could talk a little bit about

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Speaker 1: kind of how you feel that these democratic administrations have

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Speaker 1: changed and what your takeaways from that.

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Speaker 5: I mean, the big shift happened in the late nineteen seventies,

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Speaker 5: and that was at a time when workers in the

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Speaker 5: United States stopped getting wage increases. I'm talking about most

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Speaker 5: of our workers, people who were paid an hourly wage,

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Speaker 5: people who were at that time a third of them unionized.

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Speaker 5: But everything came to a fairly grinding halt in the

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Speaker 5: late nineteen seventies. This was the fault of Jimmy Carter.

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Speaker 5: Happened to happen on Jimmy Carter's watch, but Ronald Reagan

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Speaker 5: did kind of exploit it and celebrate it. He said

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Speaker 5: government is the problem. And I think from that point

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Speaker 5: on Democrats were very were intimidated. They didn't want to

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Speaker 5: go back to the New Deal. They did want a

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Speaker 5: strong government to help average working people. And I worked

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Speaker 5: for Well, I campaigned for Walter Mondale in eighty four,

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Speaker 5: and then I campaigned for Michael Decaccus. You remember these.

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Speaker 2: Names, yeah, very much.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and then Clinton Intewo and these people, these men

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Speaker 5: really adopted the notion they were called Atari Democrats. They

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Speaker 5: adopted the notion that the Democratic Party really did need

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Speaker 5: to move toward the information economy and the suburban swing

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Speaker 5: vote and the knowledge workers, rich people, well who became

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Speaker 5: rich people, but essentially abandoning the blue collar working class

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Speaker 5: that had been the foundation of the Democratic Party. And

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Speaker 5: we're living with that legacy right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think that's really such an interesting and salient point.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, I do feel like Reagan is the

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Speaker 1: original sin on a lot of this, and he did

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Speaker 1: he sort of took advantage of it. And then this

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Speaker 1: idea of democratic anxiety is so interesting to me because

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Speaker 1: I do think you cannot live in our political world

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Speaker 1: without being very clear that Democrats are anxious. And you

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Speaker 1: could say it's because of the stakes, but it's also

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Speaker 1: just a different way of operating in the political world

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Speaker 1: versus Republicans.

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Speaker 5: Well, I think the Democrats did let the American working

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Speaker 5: class go. I mean, they kind of abandoned them. And

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Speaker 5: I saw this happening. I mean it happened during the

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Speaker 5: nineteen seventies to eighties, nineteen nineties. There was a void.

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Speaker 5: I mean, the traditional Republican establishment was big business at

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Speaker 5: Wall Street. So who's there for the working class? Who's

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Speaker 5: there for working Americans? I mean, in effect, from a

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Speaker 5: filled a void that was already there, from exploited the

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Speaker 5: fact that there was a large and an ever more

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Speaker 5: desperate working class had not really got a raise adjusted

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Speaker 5: for inflation since the late nineteen seventies. Most Americans living

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Speaker 5: paycheck to paycheck, no job security, no more pensions. Most

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Speaker 5: people don't really have the advantage of looking forward to

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Speaker 5: a pension. I mean, America and workers have got screwed

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Speaker 5: and shafted. You know, in recent years, Democrats are much better,

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Speaker 5: and I think Biden is a much better job. But

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Speaker 5: a lot of Democrats over the last thirty forty years

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Speaker 5: have not really given the working class an opportunity to

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Speaker 5: move ahead.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk about what that would look like.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the ways in what you feel that Biden

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Speaker 1: has been more pro worker and how that could keep

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Speaker 1: going well.

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Speaker 5: I think Biden, unlike Barack Obama and Bill Clinton and

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Speaker 5: Jimmy Carter, really has embraced average working class people and

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Speaker 5: labor unions, and you know, he's really tried to give

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Speaker 5: workers an opportunity to bring back manufacturing and manufacturing jobs.

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Speaker 5: I mean, all of these investments that have been made

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Speaker 5: under Biden in manufacturing in the Midwest in many Republican states.

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Speaker 5: They don't know it yet, maybe they'll never give credit

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Speaker 5: to Joe Biden, but he really has done it. There

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Speaker 5: are all sorts of industries that will generate a lot

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Speaker 5: of jobs and manufacturing jobs and good jobs, particularly if

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Speaker 5: they're unionized.

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Speaker 1: Do you think this is in some way related to

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden considering himself to be a working class person.

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Speaker 5: I think so, you know, I think Joe Biden really

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Speaker 5: you know, born in Scranton, Pennsylvania, grew up in Pennsyla.

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Speaker 5: That's where I was born, by the way, and Delaware,

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Speaker 5: and you know, taking the train back and forth as

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Speaker 5: far as I remember. And I worked around him and

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Speaker 5: with him on various things over the years. He never

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Speaker 5: really took on the mantle that some Democrats did of

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Speaker 5: the kind of fancy modern Washington world. I knew Washington

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Speaker 5: qually when Washington was kind of a CD town, you know,

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Speaker 5: under Reagan and after Reagan it became a very rich town.

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Speaker 5: But Biden never really indulged that aspect of Washington. To

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Speaker 5: his credit, I think he stayed a working class person.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, really really important point. And I think that's also true.

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Speaker 1: And you do hear when he talks about it, because

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Speaker 1: the fact that his father lost his job and they

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Speaker 1: all had to move was one of the things that

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Speaker 1: shaped him in a good way, I think as a president.

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Speaker 5: The loss of a job and having to move your family,

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Speaker 5: these were traumatic events for a kid, they're traumatic for

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Speaker 5: a family. Most American workers right now have even less

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Speaker 5: security than Joe Biden's family had when Joe Biden was

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Speaker 5: growing up. And the lack of job security, the fact

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Speaker 5: that in this country you can be fired at any

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Speaker 5: time for no reason, you know, makes American capitalism one

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Speaker 5: of the harshest forms of capitalism on the planet.

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Speaker 1: Hot take even worse is the fact that your health

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Speaker 1: insurance is tied to your job.

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Speaker 5: Your health insurance is tied to your job, your pension

436
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 5: is tied to your job. Any other benefits that unions

437
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 5: have fought for over the years is tied to your job. Obviously,

438
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 5: But if you lose a job or if you are

439
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 5: a part time worker, and right now, you know, anywhere

440
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 5: from fifteen to twenty five percent of American workers are

441
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,640
Speaker 5: working part time. They are working maybe two or three

442
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 5: jobs part time, but they're not as workers were thirty

443
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:05,240
Speaker 5: or forty years ago, attached to their companies for lifetime. Well,

444
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 5: that means that there is a deeper level of insecurity.

445
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think is really an important point. I think

446
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 1: there's more positive tey towards unions publicly, but it does

447
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 1: seem like we're at a place where rebuilding unions should

448
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:25,640
Speaker 1: be high on the list of things that Americans are doing.

449
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 5: Absolutely because unions fought for higher wages. I mean in

450
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 5: the fifties and sixties when I was growing up, over

451
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 5: a third of Americans private sector workers were unionized. Now

452
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 5: six percent are in unions. A progressive pro worker agenda

453
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:45,120
Speaker 5: also attacks monopolies, and this is something else that Joe

454
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 5: Biden has done an a trust division of the Justice

455
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 5: Department and the Federal Trade Commission, very very proactive. A

456
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 5: pro worker policy also fights to make sure that big

457
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:02,159
Speaker 5: companies are following the Dictates National Relations Act of nineteen

458
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 5: thirty five, And this is something Joe Biden's labor board

459
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 5: is trying to do is really doing actually more successfully

460
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 5: than any labor board is done in forty years. It

461
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 5: gets no publicity, but it just like fighting monopolies, it's

462
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 5: exceedingly important.

463
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 2: Didn't they reject the merger with spirit?

464
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 5: The anti monopoly crew of the Biden administration was very

465
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 5: active in that litigation, And yes, it was important and

466
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 5: is important to fight monopolies like well, aircraft monopolies are

467
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 5: a good example.

468
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, talk to us about Boeing because I feel like

469
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 1: a great time to just I mean, I don't know

470
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: if you saw this, but Secretary Blinken's plane broke and he.

471
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,360
Speaker 2: Couldn't get home. It was yet another Boeing.

472
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 1: There was some blaming in the billionaire class that this

473
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: was all caused by diversity and inclusion.

474
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,120
Speaker 2: So I'm hoping you could talk about.

475
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 5: That, Well, it's caused by monopolization, in corporate greed. Boeing

476
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 5: is the poster child from monopoly. I mean, there's nobody

477
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 5: else but Boeing merged with McDonald Douglas and became a

478
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,439
Speaker 5: giant monopoly. Nobody has any choice. I mean, if you

479
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 5: are an airline and you want to buy an aircraft.

480
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 5: What are you going to do if you go to

481
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 5: Europe and try to buy something from one of the

482
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 5: major European manufacturers, You've got to wait in line for

483
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 5: ten years. If you need aircraft right now, Boeing is

484
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 5: about the only possibility you have. But if you're a

485
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 5: monopolistlight Boeing, you don't have to worry about your consumers,

486
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 5: you don't have to worry about quality, you don't have

487
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 5: to worry about anything. Obviously, Boeing is concerned right now

488
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 5: because of all of the problems with its max and

489
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 5: it's had those problems for years. That's something else about

490
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 5: a monopoly, Molly, I mean, a monopoly has lous equality

491
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:49,679
Speaker 5: because there's no competition.

492
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 2: Right.

493
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: Let's talk about one of the other things that Biden

494
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: administration is doing, very unsexy but really disproportionally affects people

495
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 1: who have less money and also people who can't do

496
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,199
Speaker 1: math aka me overdraft fees.

497
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 5: The Biden administration is cracked down on these fees, banking fees,

498
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 5: overdraft fees. There there are things that if you put

499
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 5: your money somewhere and you want to take it out,

500
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,119
Speaker 5: and it turns out that you have taken out a

501
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 5: little bit too much more than you had. You are

502
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 5: charged interest, but the interest can be huge and the

503
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 5: bank there's really no good regulation on this. If you

504
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,399
Speaker 5: borrow from a lender on Wall Street, who is a

505
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 5: local lender really backed by Wallstreet, but a lender that

506
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 5: is charging up to could charge up up to three

507
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 5: hundred percent on your loans. I mean that you've got

508
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,959
Speaker 5: these fees. You've got loan sharks out there. The average worker,

509
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 5: the average person is very much susceptible all this, and

510
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 5: so the Biden administration is definitely cracking down.

511
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 2: It is a way to protect people who have lasts, right.

512
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

513
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 5: The other thing that needs to be said, Molly, is

514
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 5: that the Biden administration, remember, it is facing a Republican

515
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 5: wall of regression. Republicans really are standing in for big

516
00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:12,680
Speaker 5: business and Wall Street, but they are using the rhetoric

517
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,000
Speaker 5: of anti establishment populism. So a lot of people are

518
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 5: very confused. You know, somebody like Donald Trump comes along

519
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 5: and says, I am your voice, I represent you. Yet

520
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 5: what does he do. The only thing he did when

521
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 5: he was president was a huge tax cut, mostly for

522
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 5: very wealthy people and big corporations. Biden has to deal

523
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 5: with a Congress. That is very, very difficult. You know,

524
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 5: the Republicans now control the House, that Democrats are holding

525
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 5: on to the Senate by a very thin margin. It's

526
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 5: amazing what Biden was managed to accomplish in his first

527
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 5: two years given the intransigence of the Republican Party.

528
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the things that we don't talk about

529
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: is corporate America. Even if they pretend to care, I mean,

530
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 1: they really support the Republican Party.

531
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 5: The corporate America is basically bank rolling Republicans. You know,

532
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 5: Davos this week, where you have the biggest American corporations

533
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 5: and the CEOs gathering in their annual becunfab in Switzerland.

534
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,479
Speaker 5: The theme this year, if you can believe it, is

535
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 5: rebuilding trust. What's really ironic here is that many of

536
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 5: the companies and CEOs who are talking about we worry

537
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 5: that about American political instability and how it's going to

538
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 5: affect our bottom lines, that they are pouring money into

539
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 5: American politics. They are supporting the one hundred and forty

540
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 5: seven election deniers who are still there. Right.

541
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 2: You know, this is about tax sets for businesses.

542
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: I've been trying not to talk about this because I

543
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: don't think it helps them try to get it done.

544
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: But there's some pretty exciting legislation that could happen with

545
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 1: the child tax credit being brought back.

546
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 2: Can you talk about that a little bit.

547
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 5: America did an experiment in twenty twenty one. It didn't

548
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 5: last very long, but it was an important experiment. We

549
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 5: provided every family with children with a certain amount of

550
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 5: money that enabled well, it enabled families to do better

551
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 5: and also cut child poverty by almost fifty percent. And

552
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 5: then because the Republicans in the Senate didn't want to

553
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 5: continue it, and Joe Manchin joined the Republicans, it ended.

554
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 5: That experiment ended. Now there is a possibility once again

555
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 5: for having at least part of that experiment revived with

556
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 5: an expanded child tax grit and hopefully this compromise will

557
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 5: go through.

558
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Robert, I hope you will come back.

559
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 5: I'd be delighted. Molly Well, thank you for everything you're

560
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 5: doing to alert the public with the truth.

561
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: Jay Willis is the editor of Balls and Strikes.

562
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 2: Welcome back to Fast Politics.

563
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 4: Jay, Thank you for having me. What are you going

564
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 4: to talk about today? Is anything going on?

565
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 2: No and no legal staff?

566
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 4: Oh well, thank you so much for having me.

567
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: We're going to start by talking about what's happening in

568
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. This season of magas Supreme Court Chaos

569
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: was billed as the season where they don't act as crazy.

570
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 4: Go they are acting just as crazy. There's just I

571
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 4: guess what's the analogy like, Yeah, this is still like

572
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 4: a prestige drama. It's just that there's like fewer explosions

573
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 4: in this one. I think this is like Season three

574
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 4: of the Americans as opposed to some of the earlier ones.

575
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 2: Right, it's succession and not Game of Thrones.

576
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's right, whereas last.

577
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: Season was Game of Surrounds and this season before talk

578
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: us through this case that they're hearing oral arguments about

579
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: the Chevron deference.

580
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,239
Speaker 4: Right, I will talk through what that is first in

581
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 4: the briefest possible fashion to avoid having listeners fall asleep

582
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 4: quick into our conversation, because overturning this concept again, Chevron

583
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 4: deference is very critical to the conservative legal movement. So

584
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 4: if you hear it and you think that sounds boring,

585
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 4: that is pretty much exactly what Neil Gorsuch wants you

586
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 4: to decide. So basic schoolhouse rock. Right, Congress passes laws,

587
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 4: but most of the laws Congress passes are very general.

588
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 4: So for example, the Clean Air Act basically says we

589
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 4: should have clean air, but lawmakers aren't saying exactly how

590
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 4: to do this, Like Lauren Bober doesn't know shit about

591
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 4: pollutant parts per million levels. So the laws just say, look, listen.

592
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 4: The Environmental Protection Agency, the EPA, staffed by experts, staffed

593
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 4: by scientists. You figure out the best way for us

594
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 4: to have clean air. The EPA creates rules called regulations,

595
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 4: basically the same thing, and that's sort of the bread

596
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:56,959
Speaker 4: and butter about how laws actually get enforced. Now, sometimes

597
00:32:57,040 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 4: people will challenge these regulations. For example, a petrochemical plant

598
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 4: that wants to pump more poison in the air will

599
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 4: be upset about its obligations not to do that. And

600
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 4: when these challenges come before courts, judges employ what's known

601
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 4: as Chevron deference. It's named after a nineteen eighty four

602
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,239
Speaker 4: Supreme Court case. The court looks at a rule and

603
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 4: it says, listen, is the law is it clear or

604
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 4: is it ambiguous? And if the court thinks, you know,

605
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 4: it's ambiguous. And the agency did a reasonable job of

606
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 4: figuring out how to go about this, this isn't our

607
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 4: lane as a judge. As long as the agency is,

608
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 4: you know, not way outside the scope of what seems reasonable,

609
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 4: Courts defer to the agency. Remember how Lauren Bobert isn't

610
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 4: good at pollutant level determinations. Neither is bretttay Right. That's

611
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 4: the idea behind Chevron deference. Conservatives, you know, if they

612
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 4: want governments so small they can drown it in a bathtub.

613
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 4: They hate Chevron difference because, in their view, it gives

614
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 4: a lot of power to agencies. Now a little side note,

615
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 4: can Conservatives didn't always hate Chevron deference because it was

616
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 4: very helpful to them during Reagan era deregulation. Some of

617
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 4: its loudest fanboys two guys named Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas.

618
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 4: But once Court started using it to uphold sort of

619
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 4: more progressive rules under democratic administrations, You'll never believe it,

620
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,759
Speaker 4: but the Conservatives change their tune. So that's what these

621
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,839
Speaker 4: cases that the Court is considering now are about. It's

622
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 4: about overturning Chevron and just turning decisions about air pollution

623
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 4: and water contamination and medication safety and a billion other

624
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 4: things over to unelected life tenure judges.

625
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 1: So the idea here is that they can just sort

626
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:45,280
Speaker 1: of do whatever they want when it comes to the environment, right.

627
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 4: They can. The idea is that they can sort of

628
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 4: substitute their own judgment. If they don't agree with a rule,

629
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 4: they may say, you know what, I don't think that's

630
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 4: a reasonable interpretation of agency power and force the EPA

631
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 4: to sort of go back to the drawing board.

632
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: That really is sort of their larger geshtalled up trying

633
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 1: to limit the power of the federal government.

634
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 4: That's right, And there's not sort of a super clean

635
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 4: answer as to what would happen to legal challenges without Chevron,

636
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,839
Speaker 4: But that's kind of part of the problem, right. This

637
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,919
Speaker 4: has been sort of a background principle of the law

638
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 4: for nineteen eighty four, forty years now. The day to

639
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,320
Speaker 4: day work of governing a country of three hundred and

640
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 4: fifty million people is really hard, and undermining agency's power

641
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 4: to do that work would just be like, really disruptive

642
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 4: and unsettling. I'm not saying that agencies always get their

643
00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 4: decisions right, but again, I want the FDA to make

644
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 4: decisions about food contamination, not sam Alaedo, not Marjorie Taylor Green.

645
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 2: Right, and the idea is that you can then politicize

646
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 2: things that should be about science.

647
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,280
Speaker 4: That's right, And I mean we have a Supreme Court

648
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 4: that is famously anti science, a conservative judiciary that is

649
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 4: famously skeptical of that kind of thing. That sort of

650
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:10,399
Speaker 4: thinking could be tinging like major decisions about policy in

651
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:11,680
Speaker 4: this country in the years to come.

652
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 1: So let's talk for a minute about the oral arguments

653
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: for a second.

654
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:21,320
Speaker 2: Justice Kavanaugh is into the friend of mine.

655
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's just really a dumb dumb right, not to

656
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 1: put too fine a legal point on it.

657
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, sort of sorry for the legal jargon, right, Like, Yeah,

658
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 4: sometimes I struggle to talk about this because I don't

659
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 4: agree with Brett Kavanaugh's jurisprudence, ideology, life choices, any of that,

660
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 4: But like I want to sort of separate that from

661
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 4: sort of this like really unique role I think he

662
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,799
Speaker 4: plays on the court. Like I can't stress enough how

663
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 4: much of like just a guy Brett Kavanaugh is. He

664
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 4: is like repeatedly sort of the like most obviously in

665
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 4: over his head at oral argue when he writes opinions.

666
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 4: I just don't think he's very smart. And I mean

667
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 4: this guy was like a Bush administration Lackey for years,

668
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 4: like this is not someone with sort of the academic

669
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 4: pedigree to the extent that anyone gives a shit about

670
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 4: that that some of the other justices bring. Like he's

671
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 4: just a dude who is in the right place at

672
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,000
Speaker 4: the right time, and now he gets to hear the

673
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 4: sound of his own voice even more often.

674
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, one of my favorite things is all the people

675
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: who are so mad about diversity, equity and inclusion seem

676
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 1: to not understand that they're quote unquote non diversity. Higher

677
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 1: is as dumb as Max Rocks.

678
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 5: Yeah.

679
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 4: He has like a very funny tick where he will

680
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,399
Speaker 4: latch on to a word or phrase and you can

681
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 4: just tell he's thinking, like, man, I've come up with

682
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 4: something smart here. Like famously, at oral argument in Dobbs

683
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 4: with you know, the case the Conservatives used to overturn

684
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 4: Roe v. Wade, he kept returning to this idea that

685
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,720
Speaker 4: the court could be and I'm quoting here, scrupulously neutral

686
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 4: on the issue of abortion. And he said that a

687
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 4: couple times, and I remember listening to it and just

688
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 4: being like, oh God, Like he thinks he's got this,

689
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 4: and sure enough, like he wrote a concurring opinion in Dobbs.

690
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 4: That was just like littered with references to neutral and neutrality,

691
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,879
Speaker 4: the Court being neutral on the issue of abortion, which

692
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 4: like is like, how would the some of the dumbest

693
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 4: shit I've ever heard? Right, the Court's going to hear

694
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 4: two more cases this term about abortion. The Court can't

695
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 4: get out of this issue. It's only making different choices

696
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 4: about whose side it comes down on. Yeah, he just

697
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:39,919
Speaker 4: very much brings the energy to these of a guy

698
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,280
Speaker 4: who like just remembered today that he asked to deliver

699
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 4: a presentation on the book report and he didn't finish

700
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 4: the book, but he did get to skin the spark notes.

701
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 4: That's how he does his job as a Supreme Court justice.

702
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 2: Now Justice Jackson is a bit different. Will you talk

703
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 2: to us about that.

704
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

705
00:38:57,120 --> 00:38:59,840
Speaker 4: Justice Jackson got a lot of I think well deserved

706
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:04,080
Speaker 4: for like really doing her homework in her first couple

707
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 4: years on the court. But this conservative court claims to

708
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 4: be the champions of history and tradition. I think that

709
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 4: is dumb and wrong and disingenuous for a host of reasons.

710
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 2: And right also because they're not.

711
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, that is principally one of the reasons I don't

712
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 4: like it. But Justice Jackson tried to play the game.

713
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 4: Tries to play the game, really goes back and brings

714
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 4: in famously the history of Reconstruction Amendments during the oral

715
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 4: argument over affirmative action to correctly make the case that

716
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 4: affirmative action policies are in fact consistent with the Fourteenth

717
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 4: Amendment and the Reconstruction Amendments. She didn't win that argument, obviously,

718
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 4: but shout out to her for at least trying. And

719
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 4: I mean, the fact is that, like you know, a

720
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 4: lot of these sort of competing ideologies is you know,

721
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 4: mostly interesting to law professors and legal pundits and no

722
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:04,600
Speaker 4: one else. What matters is whether or not you can

723
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 4: count to five votes. The liberals can't do that. But

724
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:12,239
Speaker 4: I respect the liberal justices for trying, for giving it

725
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 4: a shot, and for at the very least right like

726
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 4: exposing the fact that, as Justice Jackson did in the

727
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:22,800
Speaker 4: affirmative action cases, the Conservatives aren't real champions of history

728
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,760
Speaker 4: and tradition. They are champions of the history and tradition,

729
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 4: the elements of it, the slivers of it often that

730
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 4: lead to their preferred result.

731
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:34,720
Speaker 1: The Supreme Court is going to look at some trump

732
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: I don't even want to say, cases, right, but they

733
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,240
Speaker 1: are cases. Can you explain to us what they're looking

734
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: at and how and why.

735
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 4: The biggest case, the most potentially consequential case, is the

736
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 4: decisions about Trump's eligibility to run for president again under

737
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,360
Speaker 4: Section three of the Fourteenth Amendment. Fourteenth Amendment was passed

738
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,480
Speaker 4: in the wake of the Civil War, and one of

739
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 4: its key provisions is that if you previously engaged in

740
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 4: insurrection against the government, we are not going to let

741
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 4: you hold political office again. You can't try and overthrow

742
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 4: the Union and then be like a key part of

743
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 4: its lawmaking governing process. At the time, there was sort

744
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 4: of one big insurrection that they had in mind, but

745
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:22,879
Speaker 4: there have been other insurrections since then.

746
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 2: There are new into our that's.

747
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 4: Right, you may have been familiar. So the Colorado Supreme

748
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 4: Court decided that Trump is not eligible under what this

749
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,720
Speaker 4: It's called the disqualification clause. The main Secretary of State

750
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 4: made a similar decision, and both states for now want

751
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 4: to leave Trump off their presidential primary ballots. And Trump,

752
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 4: as you can imagine, does not much care for this,

753
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 4: has challenged it, and the Supreme Court will hear oral

754
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 4: argument in the case next month.

755
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 1: One of the things I'm struck by with Trump, and

756
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,279
Speaker 1: the reason why Trump is where he is right now

757
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 1: is because at every point sort of people have said, like, oh, no,

758
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 1: the real rules don't apply to this guy.

759
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,280
Speaker 2: We have other special rules.

760
00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 1: Like it's kind of the definition of white privilege, right, Like, yeah,

761
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 1: you know, I know everybody else has to go to

762
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 1: jail for doing crimes, but not our guy because he's

763
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:20,280
Speaker 1: you know, he's Donald Trump.

764
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:22,879
Speaker 2: And so I do think it's kind of interesting when

765
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 2: it comes to fourteenth Amendment.

766
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 1: You have people who are saying, you know, this is

767
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 1: not what it's made for, but it's actually, this is

768
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:31,879
Speaker 1: exactly what it's made for.

769
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 4: Yeah. I have been both surprised and unsurprised, definitely dismayed

770
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 4: by sort of the army of political pundits and like

771
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:46,280
Speaker 4: ostensibly smart legal scholars who are just like twisting themselves

772
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 4: into rhetorical knots to figure out why this shouldn't exclude

773
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 4: a violent insurrectionist like Donald Trump from the ballots. Michael

774
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 4: Lerof heard a great essay for Balls and Strikes Gray

775
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 4: website Balls and Strikes or about this. There's sort of

776
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 4: this through line in a lot of these op eds

777
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 4: that's basically like, well, the legal process isn't the right

778
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 4: way to reject Trump. Americans should reject him through the

779
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 4: political process at the ballots that happens, I mean, if

780
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 4: you want to get technical about it, outside of the

781
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,920
Speaker 4: electoral college that happened twice. There's also this idea that

782
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,760
Speaker 4: you know, we mustn't exclude Trump because if we exclude Trump,

783
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 4: his supporters will become violent. And I just sort of

784
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 4: question the use of the word become there. They are

785
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,959
Speaker 4: going to be violent no matter what. You can't as again,

786
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 4: as Michael wrote for the site, like there aren't really

787
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 4: magic words that you can get to stop reactionaries from

788
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:47,440
Speaker 4: being reactionaries, and it certainly certainly shouldn't stop you from

789
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:53,280
Speaker 4: using the howlingly obvious legal tools at your disposal to

790
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,360
Speaker 4: prevent dangerous people like that from being in positions of power.

791
00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 4: It just smacks of, again, as you said, sort of

792
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:04,080
Speaker 4: the deep Sea did sort of cowardice and tolerance within

793
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 4: the pundit community of finding ways not to apply the

794
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 4: law to people in ways where they sort of fear

795
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:12,880
Speaker 4: the unknown consequences.

796
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean I also think like they're saying,

797
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 1: what's a political process, and that Senators should be the

798
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:24,040
Speaker 1: ones who vote to convict, and as we remember, senators

799
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:25,880
Speaker 1: would absolutely not do that because they were scared for

800
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 1: their same day right.

801
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 4: Section three of the fourteenth Amendment. Congress enacted that to

802
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 4: prevent violent people from assuming positions of power. I don't

803
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:39,840
Speaker 4: really understand the pundit's urge to sort of second guess

804
00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 4: that by requiring additional Congressional action, additional Senate confirmation, Like

805
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 4: this is what the law says, and I don't deny it.

806
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 4: Like again, as my friend Michael wrote, it's definitely true,

807
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 4: right that, like removing a major party presidential candidate from

808
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 4: the ballot is like kind of but you know what

809
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 4: else is fraught a violent insurrection that almost ended with

810
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 4: Nancy Pelosi and Mike Pence getting murdered in the capital,

811
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 4: Like there have to be consequences for this.

812
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such an insane moment in American life, and

813
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: I think we don't spend enough time sort of pulling

814
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 1: back and going like this is not how any of

815
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 1: this is supposed to work. The fourteenth Amendment is, you know,

816
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:31,360
Speaker 1: the fire alarm, because there is someone who did insurrection

817
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 1: who wants to be in office, and now you know

818
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 1: we're having an argument about gentility, right, I mean, like,

819
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: this is not how any of.

820
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 2: This is supposed to go.

821
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like I get really frustrated with sort of the

822
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 4: terminal collegial brain that political pundits and especially that legal

823
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 4: pundits and law professors are infected with, where they will

824
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 4: just find a way to say anything nice about like

825
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 4: people who would deny them civil and human rights. But

826
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 4: the the idea of looking the other way on a

827
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 4: presidential candidate who you know, thanks immigrants are vermin and

828
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 4: wants to round people up and deport them from the

829
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 4: country on day one. That's almost a parody of frog

830
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:14,720
Speaker 4: in the in the boiling pop. Right, it's a little

831
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 4: too on the nose.

832
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 2: Jay, thank you so much for joining us.

833
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 4: Thank you again for having me.

834
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 3: Moment. Wait, do you want fuckery? Do you want some dirty,

835
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 3: hot fuckery?

836
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:35,439
Speaker 2: Yes, Psycho Jesse is like his life just.

837
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:42,080
Speaker 3: Jess's like mom and dad are talking weird.

838
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 2: Yes, that's right, only by like six months.

839
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 3: The fuckery that I have been paying the most attention

840
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 3: to this week is, frankly, the desperate media driven attempt

841
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 3: to make Nikki fetch. Yes, Nicki's not going to be fetched. Folks,

842
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 3: Nicki's not going to be the one. It like borders

843
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 3: on insulting to the American people. That as what Tim

844
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 3: Miller calls the horse race industrial complex keeps trying to

845
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,800
Speaker 3: put the paddles on her. It really bothers me because

846
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 3: we are not there anymore. This is not the world

847
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 3: we live in. She's done. It's over. And the shock

848
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,359
Speaker 3: and awe effect that will hit people next week when

849
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 3: they say, wait, we thought there was a prop Wait

850
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 3: what I mean? It's time And I've had a lot

851
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 3: of anger about that, because you know, we're in the

852
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:36,800
Speaker 3: moment where the greatest competition between authoritarianism and a limited

853
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 3: government republic based on the constitution the rule of law

854
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 3: has ever has ever been imagined in this country's about

855
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 3: to happen. And a lot of people are going to

856
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 3: be surprised, in part because we have seen over and

857
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 3: over again that people cast this race not as what

858
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 3: it really is, but as a viable republican primary, and

859
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:55,760
Speaker 3: that ain't the case.

860
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:59,440
Speaker 1: My moment of Fockray is going to be you talking

861
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 1: with Frank LUNs Tell me why Frank Luntz is a problem.

862
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 3: I've known Frank for a very very long time. Before

863
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 3: I knew him. My first interaction with Frank and I

864
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:10,320
Speaker 3: got in trouble because I was actually working for the

865
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 3: government at the time, was at an event where he

866
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 3: was defending Ross Perrot saying, Oh, he's not going to

867
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 3: take Republican votes away from George Bush.

868
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:19,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, he totally we love that guy.

869
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 3: I was like, yeah, he will, and what the fuck

870
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 3: are you talking about? And I got a little like

871
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 3: nasty gram for the White House Political I It's like,

872
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:29,279
Speaker 3: you didn't have to use your real name in that.

873
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 3: Frank is a guy who's believed in this like dream

874
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 3: of some sort of third party do gooder, not Republican

875
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 3: or a Democrat, just American thing. And I kind of

876
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 3: had to take him to school on ali Velshi on

877
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 3: Sunday morning. Because this isn't a contest between the perfect

878
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 3: third party candidate grown in a laboratory somewhere who's gonna

879
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 3: pursue good technocratic impulses to make America, you know, a

880
00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 3: safer and healthier country. It's between Orangeler and Joe Biden.

881
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 3: It's between the darkness for one thousand fucking years and

882
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 3: a guy who has been a center left Democratic president

883
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 3: has done a pretty good job. The idea that you

884
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 3: have some perfect compromise candidate in the middle somewhere is

885
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 3: a luxury that American politics cannot afford this year or

886
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 3: maybe ever, because we're fighting a smart, evil movement. And

887
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 3: when you get somebody who's willing to say this sort

888
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 3: of things like oh, well, you know, people are going

889
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 3: to run to it. Joe Manchin would be such a

890
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,759
Speaker 3: good No, stop it. It's insanity.

891
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, it's insanity. Who is Joe Manchin for?

892
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 2: No one? And stop it? No labels will do nothing

893
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 2: but make Trump president again.

894
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 3: Which they don't have a path to. Two seventy might

895
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 3: be their goal, which is their goal. You're right, they're

896
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:51,640
Speaker 3: funded by Harlan Crow and the Republican Party, so you know,

897
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:54,280
Speaker 3: call me crazy. All right, Well, thank you as always,

898
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 3: fun time, Wilson, you are betcha. I'm your Huckleberry.

899
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode to Fast Politics. Tune in

900
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday and Friday to hear the best minds

901
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 1: in politics make sense of all this chaos. If you

902
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:11,240
Speaker 1: enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend

903
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:14,840
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.