1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio. 5 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:24,600 Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, 6 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 2: my name is Noah. 7 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 3: They call b Ben. We're joined as always with our 8 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 3: super producer Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you 9 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 3: are here. That makes this the stuff they don't want 10 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 3: you to know. This is part two of a continuing 11 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 3: conversation with friends of the show the legendary John Cameron Mitchell. 12 00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 3: Please please please tune into part one before you travel 13 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 3: to part two. 14 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, God does where we landed? Where we're going to 15 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 4: start this one off? We covered so many amazing topics 16 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 4: with John. 17 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 2: Oh. 18 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 5: Yeah. 19 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 2: And one of the things we're talking about specifically is 20 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 2: his show Cancelation Island that you can listen to you 21 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 2: right now if you want to. It's brought to us 22 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:05,119 Speaker 2: by Topic Studios. You guys, I look them up. They 23 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 2: also produced a like a television documentary called Risk back 24 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 2: in twenty seventeen about Julian asonge and this it was 25 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 2: the Laura poetrous thing that was just so interesting to 26 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 2: see the inner workings of that dude. It's cool that 27 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 2: they are also producing this project. 28 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 4: They also had a hand in a little movie that 29 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 4: I believe won a couple Oscars this year called A 30 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 4: Real Pain with Jesse Eisenberg and the Culkin, the Young, 31 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 4: the Medium, Culkin, the Middle Culkin. Karen, Yeah, he's hot 32 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 4: right now. But topic's great for sure. 33 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 3: And armed with that information, fellow conspiracy realist, please join 34 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 3: us for Part two of our conversation with John Cabern 35 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:46,119 Speaker 3: Mitchell in. 36 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:47,279 Speaker 1: Progress as we speak. 37 00:01:55,560 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 3: I love this point of interpretation right the story, right 38 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 3: of a story, a common lived experience. And earlier, earlier, John, 39 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 3: we talked briefly about, you know, the nature of reality? 40 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 2: Right? 41 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 3: Is reality a matter of consensus? In interpretation? We see 42 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,679 Speaker 3: quite a few institutions over the course of human civilization 43 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 3: arguing this, and it's it's real bag of badgers. You know, 44 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 3: it's a pickle to think on. And as we know now, 45 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 3: many many people feel that they have figured out the truth, 46 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 3: at least for themselves, and many other people are are 47 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 3: still searching, still navigating the identity. Right, what is the universe? 48 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 3: What part do we play in this? Tremendous theater. And 49 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 3: this is this is where we have to ask you. 50 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 3: We had this list in our notes of questions to 51 00:02:54,280 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 3: ask you what's next for John Cameron Mitchell. You you 52 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 3: teased a little bit about your next project. Could you 53 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 3: share some insider info for our audience? 54 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 6: Yes, you know, a cancelation I on the podcast sitcom 55 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 6: of whatever you want to call it. Satire is out 56 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 6: now and I'm very proud of it. And we haven't 57 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:22,239 Speaker 6: actually designed animated characters because we'd love it to be 58 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 6: an animated series that would be ongoing. So that's something 59 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 6: that's we're in the process of. I'm doing a reading 60 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 6: of my new play, my first since head Big in June, 61 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 6: about Claude Cahun c a h u n if you 62 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 6: can look up. 63 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 5: And incredible story and incredible art, credible work. 64 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 6: Probably recognize some of the photography they did in the twenties, 65 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 6: but she and her female partner in art and life 66 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 6: went on to create a two women too, middle aged 67 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 6: woman art resistance cell. Again, it's the Nazi occupation and 68 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 6: Claude was half Jewish and she knew what that meant, 69 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 6: you know, she knew what was going to happen and 70 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 6: she's like, we're going to fight, but we're her wife. 71 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 6: Marcel was like, well, we're older women. What are we 72 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 6: going to do. Well, We're going to use our art. 73 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 6: And they, for example, they were undermining morale of normal 74 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 6: German soldiers. Again, their queerness made them understand it wasn't 75 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 6: a black or white situation. All Germans were not Nazis, 76 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 6: just as all Americans are not Magat. You know. It's 77 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 6: like people take advantage of economic situations and even as 78 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 6: a minority can take over. And Germans were known for 79 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 6: following orders as Japanese were and Americans aren'ts That's why 80 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 6: I still have hope that our military will not turn 81 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 6: on its own people when commanded by their anti military 82 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 6: commander in brief, and I say this as a military brat, 83 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,919 Speaker 6: like I know what the military is and it's not cops, 84 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 6: you know what I mean to me? Claude Cahun is 85 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 6: a hero for our age because she and her partner, 86 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 6: for example, broke into a German church at night to 87 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 6: put up a banner that said Jesus is great, but 88 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 6: Hitler is greater because Jesus died for you, and you're 89 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 6: going to die for Hitler. 90 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 4: Love love is the wrong word. Maybe that's what an 91 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 4: important realization. 92 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 5: Yeah, I can. 93 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 6: That is poetry, That is truth that allows the viewer 94 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 6: of the so called propaganda to think about it, to 95 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 6: think about their lives, to make a decision about it, 96 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 6: not be it's not rammed down their throats. Look at 97 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 6: this situation. 98 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 4: I mean, just back to your point at the very 99 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:47,279 Speaker 4: beginning of the show, where you know the idea of 100 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 4: when off news is fake, all stories are true, and 101 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 4: how what that means for the power of stories. And 102 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 4: I think maybe in times of upheaval and division, it's 103 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 4: things like satire and story telling that can do much 104 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 4: more work and be more powerful even than revolution, or 105 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 4: even at the very least be the seeds of that. 106 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 4: I mean, I keep thinking back to things that I 107 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 4: read when I was younger, like nineteen eighty four and 108 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:13,559 Speaker 4: Fair and nine four fifty one, that at the time 109 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 4: seemed like fiction. But then as you grow older and 110 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 4: you start to see all of these little touch points 111 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 4: that you first were made aware of by fiction and 112 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,039 Speaker 4: realize how much connection there is and how that can 113 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 4: not only I mean, sure it can be a bummer 114 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 4: because of the realization, but it can also give you 115 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 4: the tools you need to either change minds or to 116 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 4: have your mind changed. 117 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 5: Just I don't know. I think it's very powerful. 118 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:41,679 Speaker 6: You're right, and you know sadly and fortunately, as facts 119 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 6: degrade and as let's even say, nightly evening news, which 120 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 6: used to be kind of accepted as somewhat true by 121 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 6: everybody has gone, and now we've replaced it with the 122 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 6: news that we want to read and see. And it's 123 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 6: been replaced also by po so there, you know, podcasts 124 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 6: and YouTube. It's like, we do your research right. We 125 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 6: have a Robert Rfk Junior saying, Wow, if you just 126 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 6: do your research about measles, then you'll treat it with 127 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 6: you know, castor oil. And it's just like, dude, you're 128 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 6: in charge our health. Not to mention our military and 129 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 6: our economic system, but it's like we are in this 130 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 6: strange almost medieval time when the number of angels on 131 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 6: a pin is being debated on podcasts, and podcasts like 132 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 6: yours are looking at those stories from an outside point 133 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 6: of view in a bigger context of like where are 134 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 6: we You know this? All of these stories are entertaining 135 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 6: in many ways, but when they become gospel and when 136 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 6: they justify someone going into a pizza joint. Guns, He's like, 137 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 6: what is going on? It reminds me of medieval times, 138 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 6: you know. Witches are you know thrown in? 139 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 4: I mean like the fun theme restaurant or no, okay, n. 140 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 5: Go get a go, get a pint of ale? 141 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, John, really quickly. You you talked at the top 142 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 2: about how you've had friends who were directly impacted by 143 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 2: cancelation or through some of the culture happening there. I 144 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 2: want to talk about your role as Hal Carter in 145 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 2: the Sandman universe and then watching, you know, on just 146 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 2: online everything that's happening with Neil Gamon and the Sandman 147 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 2: universe and all that, and just being a part of 148 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 2: that universe. What has it been like for you to 149 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 2: experience that and just what is happening. 150 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 6: It's very sad, you know, and I'm I'm friends, you know, 151 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 6: in a kind of cursory but friendly way with Neil 152 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 6: and his separated partner Amanda Palmer from way back, you know, 153 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 6: and see them every couple of times a year or whatever. 154 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 6: And adapted Neil's story with Philippa Gosslet how to talk 155 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 6: to girls at parties, which is punks versus aliens check 156 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 6: it out. Yeah, and I've done recorded with Amanda. And 157 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 6: the thing is I don't know all the facts, and 158 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 6: the thing is I want to believe the best about 159 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 6: my friends. And I also refuse to adjudicate the situation 160 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 6: that I know nothing about. That, of course, is what 161 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 6: cancelation is is saying I am judge and jury. This 162 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 6: has been said, therefore that you know I will amplify 163 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 6: the destruction of their career without knowing anything from behind 164 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 6: my screen. And it comes from a lack of potency 165 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 6: in your own life. It comes from fear, It comes 166 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 6: from being afraid of being canceled yourself, right, because if 167 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 6: you accused, then you can't be accused, or at least 168 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 6: that's that's the reasoning. And I hate it. I've had 169 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 6: all kinds of friends under the knife, under the microscope, 170 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 6: under the cancelation boom, and whether the facts are there 171 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 6: or not, it didn't happen to me. If something happens 172 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 6: to you, you deal with it. If you have don't 173 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 6: have the facts and it happened to someone else, let 174 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 6: the system figure that out. I refuse to be one 175 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 6: of the mob in terms of justice. 176 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 2: It's just. 177 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:47,800 Speaker 6: It's not right. It's a waste of energy, it can 178 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 6: destroy lives, you know, and who voted you in as executioner. 179 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 6: You know, it's like, come on, it's like, we have 180 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 6: a rule of law. Granted, there are when a cancelation 181 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 6: came up because as the legal system didn't work. But again, 182 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:06,440 Speaker 6: unless it's happened to me, I refuse to take on 183 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 6: the robes of Supreme Court justice. It's arrogant and it's 184 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 6: ultimately ends up creating camps and silos. And one of 185 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 6: the reasons Trump was elected is because we all separated 186 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:28,000 Speaker 6: ourselves into so called identities and so called righteous affinity 187 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 6: groups to the point that we couldn't collaborate with another 188 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 6: one that we have goals in common with. You know, 189 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 6: when people say Kamala and Trump are the same thing, Really, guys, 190 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,559 Speaker 6: tell that to the transferson who's just lost their healthcare. 191 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 6: Tell that to the professor who's just been thrown out, 192 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 6: the student has been arrested, Tell them that to their face. 193 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 4: Hey, let's take a quick pause here, you're a word 194 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 4: from our sponsor, and then jump right back into talking 195 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 4: with John Cameron Mitchell. 196 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 5: Okay, we're back. 197 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 3: I want to point out for the audience drawn your 198 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 3: use of the term affinity groups, which may sound like 199 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 3: innocuous language, but please do uh, as RFK Juger would say, 200 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 3: please do your own research, dig up that, dig up 201 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 3: that phrase. 202 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 6: There's und four chan if that still exists, We're all 203 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 6: everything's four chun now. 204 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah, we're living the dream underground. Well really quickly, 205 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 5: just the last thing for me, something we touched on before. 206 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 4: It really is something that both sides on this very 207 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 4: divided time, in this very divided time, are guilty of 208 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 4: in terms of weaponizing, uh, this sort of thing. There 209 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 4: are folks on the left that are just as guilty 210 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 4: of perhaps believing the worst reading, not reading past the headline, 211 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 4: and then maybe from a place of good intention, jumping 212 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 4: on that social justice bandwagon and just kind of asking 213 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 4: questions later. 214 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 3: Yeah. 215 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 5: And then on the other side, you have potential. 216 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 4: Miss let's say, uh, spreading of misinformation, whether or not 217 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 4: again that is believed to be true, that you're what you're. 218 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 5: Doing, what you're spreading. 219 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 4: There is a certain lack of fact checking oneself on 220 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 4: that side as well, So there is kind of, I 221 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 4: don't know, to your point, the idea of trying to 222 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 4: find that balance in the middle of those things and 223 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 4: realize that we have more in common with the other 224 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:31,920 Speaker 4: side than we may realize. 225 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 5: I think it's a big dose. Yeah. 226 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 3: The court of public opinion has a thousand judges. 227 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 6: Yeah, and the sincere people on all sides, of course, 228 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 6: are being taken advantage of by the chaos agents that 229 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 6: we call our leaders, you know there. You know, Putin 230 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:52,319 Speaker 6: himself is very clear that he's trying to sow disunion 231 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 6: with his cyber you know work as well as China, 232 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 6: and now Trump joins them as one of their brethren. 233 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 6: You know, if I was conspiracy theory minded, I you know, 234 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 6: to me, I'm like a nine to eleven inside job 235 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 6: organized by. 236 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 7: The government, right, I think it's going to be that 237 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 7: well organized. But it's like if I did believe in 238 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 7: those things. You know, Trump, she and Putin have set 239 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 7: up a system where they wanted to. If I wanted 240 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 7: to take over, I would invent conspiracy theories to confuse everyone. 241 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 7: I would destroy the possibility of fact being accepted. I 242 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 7: would do all of the things. I would create the 243 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 7: internet to distract us. When a young person can't get 244 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 7: to the end of something he's reading or watching, how 245 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 7: are they going to notice? 246 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 6: You know? A fascist takeover, you know, attention span itself 247 00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 6: because alien conspiracy theory, you know, to de Troy that, 248 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 6: but I don't, I don't do that. I see these 249 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 6: things happening because of capitalism. To be honest, A lot 250 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 6: of even racism and the queer phobia and sexism are 251 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 6: just rampant capitalism. Here's an example, like, of course you're 252 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 6: going to keep casting the same white, straight male actors 253 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 6: as stars of the movies because they already were stars, 254 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 6: and that means money. If all those people were people 255 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 6: of color, that were trans who are already huge stars, 256 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 6: they would have no compunction putting them in every film. 257 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:41,359 Speaker 6: You know, it's about money more than let's say, animus. 258 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 6: You rich people of the world you know, might be homophobic, 259 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 6: sexist and stuff, but more importantly, their power power is 260 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 6: more important than any of that stuff. And money fuels power. 261 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 6: So you know, I'm not just a simplistic Marxist, but 262 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 6: I also know that that money corrupts, and when you know, 263 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 6: we're in a situation in some ways, I almost trust 264 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 6: a capitalist more than a self deluded messiah. They're more predictable, 265 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 6: that's true, Like Trump is not predictable. Yeah, I think 266 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 6: he's drunk his own kool aid. He's high in his 267 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 6: own supply, and that assassination attempt has made him into 268 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 6: some weird self Martsiah. Yeah, save the world. You can't 269 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 6: break a law when you're saving the world, he says, 270 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 6: right right, uves that now. 271 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 5: The Greater Good back off from a third term though. 272 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 6: Things, and then he comes back to them, doesn't He. 273 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 3: Also true, it's always you know, it's always like a 274 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 3: I'll say it. This is an apolitical point just in 275 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 3: terms of mechanics of conversation and rhetoric. It's always a 276 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 3: speech like four thirty pm on a Friday energy, you know, like, hey, 277 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 3: what do you guys think about I don't know, man 278 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 3: like Greenland, you know, spitballin. Uh, this, this conversation is 279 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 3: going in so many directions, John, and we could not 280 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 3: be more grateful for your time. Uh, the guys now 281 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 3: we're talking off air in preparation for this, and one 282 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 3: thing that that we want to make space for with 283 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 3: you today is the following. It's no secret that this 284 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 3: is a frightening time in the so called American experiment, 285 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 3: and right now we have a great many non binary 286 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 3: transace l G T B Q audience members with us today, 287 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 3: and so we wanted to ask you on their behalf, 288 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 3: what message do we wish to convey to everybody listening? 289 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 3: What what is the you know, uh oto love it 290 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 3: or not is about empowerment, right, So what is uh what? 291 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 3: What would be your message beyond cancelation island, beyond all 292 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 3: of your amazing work, What would be your message to 293 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 3: the audience. 294 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 6: It's the same message I've been giving. I've been on 295 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 6: a college speaking tour talking about film theater, but of 296 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,239 Speaker 6: course we're now talking about the situation we're in, and 297 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 6: young people don't have the tools anymore. You know, you 298 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:19,199 Speaker 6: can't cancel a dictator, So to me, I want to 299 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 6: remind them that the good people are still here and 300 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:28,640 Speaker 6: those who are not will be. It's going to become 301 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:33,120 Speaker 6: very clear this situation, this fascist you know. 302 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 5: Takeover. 303 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,160 Speaker 6: You know, it's happening in slow motion and fast motion 304 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,640 Speaker 6: at the same time. Will tell us what we're made 305 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 6: of and not everyone is a giant rebel and a 306 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 6: leader of resistance. But we also will find out who 307 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 6: the opportunists are very quickly, and they will shift quickly 308 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 6: from social justice warriors to maga warriors. You'll smell, you smell, 309 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 6: you'll see it happening. But I'm reminding them that the 310 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 6: good people are still here. And as I said earlier, 311 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 6: the outsiders are the ones who get us out of 312 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:15,200 Speaker 6: hot water. The outsiders are the ones who grew up 313 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 6: knowing there was something different about themselves, and therefore there 314 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 6: was complexity to the world. There was surface, and then 315 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 6: there was truth underneath. And again, like I said, the 316 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:29,880 Speaker 6: people who are in charge are literal. It's the outsiders. 317 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:35,280 Speaker 6: It's the misfits who save us. And earlier I talked 318 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,880 Speaker 6: about the people who come saved from the ruling class, 319 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 6: people who are handed life on a platter. Those people 320 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 6: are very literal, and it doesn't mean they're bad people. 321 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 6: It just means they haven't come up against complexity, and 322 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 6: so things are what they look like. When you grow 323 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 6: up different and you are judged by how you look 324 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 6: or you have a secret, you understand there's a surface 325 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 6: and that there's layers of reality underneath it. You understand 326 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 6: nuance from five years on. You know, you understand complexity. 327 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,640 Speaker 6: You understand that things aren't what they are, and things 328 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 6: are not black and white. It's easier to say they are, 329 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 6: but we know in our heart if we're evolved minded 330 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 6: people are different from the mainstream that complexity rules. Some 331 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 6: would say chaos reigns. I prefer complexity rules because when 332 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 6: this hits the fan, you know, when your parents get Alzheimer's, 333 00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 6: when you when the economic system shifts, who steps up? 334 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 6: Who's got the still skills to deal with conflict and complexity? 335 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 6: It tends to be the outsiders. They have the skills 336 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 6: and if their outsiderness has not destroyed them, because they 337 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:54,440 Speaker 6: are misfits, and misfits kill themselves. Misfits do more drugs. 338 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,600 Speaker 6: You know, Misfits have a lot of hurdles they have 339 00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:59,919 Speaker 6: to get over. But when they do it over them 340 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,639 Speaker 6: they are evolved. They have powers. As Frank Zappa said, 341 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 6: there is no progress without deviation. M and the one 342 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 6: the deviates, which I would include much of your audience 343 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 6: here are the ones who are going to get us 344 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 6: out of it because we know there are other ways 345 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:25,359 Speaker 6: of being. We're scientists of life. We experiment, we have hypotheses. 346 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 6: That's what this whole you know, interesting podcast is about 347 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:34,480 Speaker 6: is hypotheses, and whether they have proof or not, they 348 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 6: tell us something about ourselves. And to me, we have 349 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:44,640 Speaker 6: to go back to punk. Identity politics and cancelation culture 350 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 6: has failed us. They had good intentions, it brought up 351 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 6: good ideas, but it failed us because it separated us 352 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 6: and it helped, you know, get Trump in there. People 353 00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:01,199 Speaker 6: got tired of it, and people on the edge, you know, 354 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 6: said well, I'll give him a chance again. It was dumb, 355 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 6: but I understand it. We've the holier than thou kind 356 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,679 Speaker 6: of thing that comes out of identity politics, stay in 357 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,360 Speaker 6: your lane stuff has alienated a lot of natural buddies, 358 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 6: and I hate that. 359 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 3: You know. 360 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 6: I grew up in the military, which was highly diverse. 361 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 6: It was a socialist state for rednecks. Everybody was from 362 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,480 Speaker 6: somewhere else. You could be an immigrant, you do service, 363 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 6: you become a citizen. It was America at its best 364 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 6: in many ways, even though it was very macho and 365 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,640 Speaker 6: that was not good for women or queer people at 366 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:39,199 Speaker 6: that time. But now it is. And Trump's about to 367 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 6: knock remove trans people from their units. What are their 368 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 6: unit mates going to think when you're under fire, that 369 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 6: trans colleague is way more important than what I called it. 370 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 6: Commander in brief with making fun of casualties of war, 371 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 6: calling them a users who the hell does he think 372 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 6: he is? Chicken hawk making fun of our military at 373 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:11,880 Speaker 6: its best really did help us out and helps continues 374 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,120 Speaker 6: to help people out through a kind of social program 375 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 6: of the military, you know, of getting people on their feet. 376 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 3: Right, providing, providing, you know, even at its most imperfect, 377 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 3: providing a socioeconomic avenue. Yes, right in a very yeah 378 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:39,680 Speaker 3: meritocracy in the face of oligarchy and capitalism wherein all 379 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:40,679 Speaker 3: things are commodial and. 380 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 6: Other cultures have co opted their military by giving them, 381 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 6: say the oil business in Iran or you know. But 382 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 6: so the military will never not support the people who 383 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 6: feed them, right. But I was just in Korea during 384 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 6: that constitutional crisis when the military, when the president tried 385 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 6: to stage a coup and when push came to shove. 386 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,439 Speaker 6: A coup only really takes place when the military is 387 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,639 Speaker 6: willing to turn its guns on his own people, and 388 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 6: in that case they did not, and when democracy was saved. 389 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 6: And I really believe that this chicken hawk who's demanding 390 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 6: a military birthday procession will fail when a push comes 391 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 6: to shove and he tries, which I think he will, 392 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 6: to turn the military against his own citizens. He will 393 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 6: start with illeal immigrants in his view, and it will shift. 394 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 6: But once it gets to that point, he cannot remake 395 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 6: the military fast enough for them to reject him. He 396 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 6: can change the generals but and put a muppet in 397 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 6: charge of the Defense Department, but he cannot change the 398 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 6: fact that your unit mate, in your military unit is 399 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:11,199 Speaker 6: way more important than this walking baby. So that's a 400 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 6: long way of saying, there is hope in the world. 401 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 6: There is goodness in the world. We have to think 402 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 6: about punk, which is about making things outside the system, 403 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 6: outside capitalism, outside all the approved systems, to make things work, 404 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,399 Speaker 6: whether it's a demonstration or a film, or a food 405 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,959 Speaker 6: bank or a neighborhood garden. New Orleans is a perfect 406 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 6: example of that. Hurricanes always coming. You better know your neighbors. 407 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,360 Speaker 4: I really, I really thought that was an incredible point 408 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 4: that you made at the talk you did at Emory 409 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 4: that I was lucky enough to go to. I knew 410 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 4: about your military background, but that whole comment and that 411 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,399 Speaker 4: that that train of thought about how this is not 412 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,239 Speaker 4: something that folks within the military are a fan of 413 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 4: the idea of othering folks within the military, and that 414 00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 4: the general sort of slow rolled a lot of those 415 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 4: policies It's not something I'd considered, and maybe it's come 416 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 4: up and on the on the show before, but when 417 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 4: you said it really put it starkly, because I guess 418 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 4: in my mind, having not grown up around those type 419 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 4: of folks, and I know, Ben you did, I often 420 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 4: maybe unfairly characterize folks from that world as being bigoted, 421 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 4: perhaps or having the potential for that. But that is 422 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,640 Speaker 4: very much not the case. And it slapped me kind 423 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 4: of into reality. And I appreciate it that true much. 424 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 6: The military at its best is some of the best 425 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 6: of America. Yes, there's a macho thing that suffuses it. 426 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 6: They can get very much in the way of you know, 427 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,959 Speaker 6: the complexity we know exists, but that is fated, you know, 428 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 6: it into you know, the military integrated in the late forties, 429 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 6: you know, not without tension. Gays in the military came in, 430 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 6: you know, in the two thousands, was not a big issue. 431 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,879 Speaker 6: Trans people came in what eight or ten years ago, 432 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 6: not a problem, not a problem. And of course now 433 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 6: this person in charges trying to make it a problem 434 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 6: and make queer people into the secret lizard people among us. 435 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 3: And there we have it. We've brought it back, John, 436 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 3: We have gone again, at the risk of sounded redundant, right, 437 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 3: we have gone in so many deep directions. This feels 438 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:29,360 Speaker 3: like the beginning of a much more in depth discourse. 439 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 3: We want to for today's purposes. We want to thank 440 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 3: you again so much, not just for joining us today, 441 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 3: but more importantly for bringing Cancelation Island into the world 442 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:49,719 Speaker 3: and for exploring you know, incredibly terrifying, disturbing, and at 443 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:54,159 Speaker 3: the same time inspiring concepts with us today. 444 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 6: This was delightful. It was so much fun. I feel 445 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 6: like we've saved the world and had. 446 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 5: Done check that box off. 447 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 4: All right, that's well, you know that being said, maybe 448 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 4: you'll come back sometimes, John, I think just this is 449 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 4: a breath of fresh air. Anyways, And on the show, 450 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 4: we often struggle to make sure that we're representing you know, 451 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 4: everybody and and there it does sometimes feel like we 452 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,879 Speaker 4: have to tiptoe a little bit sometimes as not to offend. 453 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,120 Speaker 4: And I just felt like this was such a measured 454 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 4: conversation about some very real things that maybe are not 455 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 4: always easy. And I think, you know, I really appreciate 456 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 4: you contributing to that and discourse on stuff they don't 457 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:29,679 Speaker 4: want you to know. 458 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 6: Of course, I'm sorry I'm so late. 459 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:39,719 Speaker 2: Finally, John, John, thank you so much for casting Josh 460 00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 2: Pisce as Carl because he was he was the voice 461 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 2: of Raphael for me, he was. 462 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 4: I recognized him from somewhere I went to an event, 463 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 4: yes and yeah, yeah, mutant Ninja, you know the one. 464 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 2: Yes, So I when I recognized his voice, I know 465 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 2: this person? Who is this person? And then I looked 466 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 2: it up and realized and he was a secret turtle, right, 467 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 2: not really secret, he was just a turtle. 468 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 5: Talk about full circle. But they're the good ones. 469 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 4: They are hidden, but they're here to protect the city 470 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 4: from the Foot Clan. 471 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:24,719 Speaker 3: And Cancelation Island is available now on your favorite podcast 472 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 3: platform of choice. We're going to join John in the 473 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 3: near future and with this go forth do everything John said, honestly, 474 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 3: I think you nailed it. 475 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 6: Oh, I love it. 476 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 3: And there you have it, folks, We've had technically a 477 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 3: week long deep dive conversation with none other than John 478 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 3: Cameron Mitchell, the creator of Cancelation Island. Out today wherever 479 00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 3: you find your favorite shows, and speaking of your favorite shows, 480 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 3: we hope you will also join us. You can find 481 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 3: us online, you can call us on phone. You can 482 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 3: always reach us at our good old fashioned email address. 483 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 4: Yes, find us online at the handle Conspiracy Stuff where 484 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,200 Speaker 4: we exist on Facebook with our Facebook group here is 485 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 4: where it gets crazy, on x FKA, Twitter and on 486 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 4: YouTube with video content for your bruising enjoyment. On Instagram 487 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 4: and TikTok. However, we're Conspiracy Stuff Show, and there's more. 488 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 2: We have a phone number. It is one eight three 489 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 2: three std WYTK. When you call in, tell us about 490 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 2: your favorite therapies that might be included in this show, 491 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 2: like Harass the Harasser, Bad Touch football and anti racism 492 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 2: spin Class. Sorry, I just really get a kick out 493 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 2: of the. 494 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 5: Fun show. What a great show. Do listen to Cancelation Island. 495 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 5: That was very grateful to be able to be an 496 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 5: EP on that project. 497 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,080 Speaker 4: And Man John and his co creator are just such 498 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 4: talented folks. 499 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,120 Speaker 2: When you call in, give yourself a cool nickname and 500 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 2: let us know if we can use your name and 501 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 2: message on the air. If you've got more to say 502 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 2: they could fit in a three minute voicemail, why not 503 00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 2: instead send us a good old fashioned email. 504 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 3: We are the entities that read every piece of correspondence 505 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 3: we receive. Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the Void 506 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 3: writes back, joined us here in the dark conspiracy at 507 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 3: iHeartRadio dot com. 508 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production 509 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 510 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.