1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: I'm Katie Lambert and I'm Sarah Dowdy. And today's subject 4 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: is pretty serious and it's been in the news a 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: lot lately, and to me, it's always fascinating when something 6 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: that happened in the past makes headlines. It's because of 7 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: new archaeological insight, or medical analysis, or just the most 8 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: thorough review of buried facts you could possibly do. And 9 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 1: I think it's interesting because it gives people the chance 10 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,480 Speaker 1: to revisit a story that they may have only learned 11 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: about in textbooks or in films. It gives people a 12 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 1: chance to revisit history well and let us see what 13 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: history really is, which, of course is something that's subject 14 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:55,959 Speaker 1: to interpretation and not ever as final as it may 15 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: seem to us. And we've done so many episodes where 16 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 1: there are huge blanks in the information that's out there, 17 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: and they're definitely harder for us to research that trapp 18 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 1: or of rat River lev Um. But there's some of 19 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: your favorites and a lot of those blank spots aren't 20 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: ever going to be filled, but others can still come 21 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: to light. And that's what we're talking about today. Yeah, 22 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: our subject today would have been a very different kind 23 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: of episode had we recorded it one week earlier, because 24 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 1: it would have been before the release of the Sable Report, 25 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: which is this five thousand page blow by blow account 26 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: of the events of Bloody Sunday, and it's really shined 27 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: so much light on a very murky period in history. 28 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 1: The BBC says the report's length and depth may have 29 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:43,960 Speaker 1: and a quote in any other context, have rendered it 30 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: a purely academic and historic document. But in the context 31 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 1: of Northern Ireland, this report is alive with the lessons 32 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: of history. But first, as always, we better go back 33 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: a little bit and find out what happened before we 34 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 1: can really understand this report and it's significance. So in 35 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, British soldiers had arrived in Northern Ireland 36 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: to protect Catholics after all, the rising tensions there were 37 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: creating a lot of trouble, and by nineteen seventy two, 38 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: Irish nationalists believed that the British were just there's occupying forces. 39 00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 1: They wanted them out of the country and it wasn't 40 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: long before Northern Ireland's unionist government started to enter suspected 41 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: paramilitaries without trial, something that was making people very upset. 42 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: Another civil right that was taken away was the right 43 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: to march to protest um and people were getting really 44 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: tired of this. So on January thirti, nineteen seventy two, 45 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: a civil rights group and Londonderry had decided to stage 46 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 1: a peaceful mass demonstration to protest the ban. The march 47 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: was organized by the Northern Ireland Civil Rights Association and 48 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,239 Speaker 1: its organizers really meant for it to be peaceful, although 49 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: riots at the time were a frequent event. They even 50 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 1: contacted Republican factions and urged them to hold back any 51 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,519 Speaker 1: violence and allow the demonstration to take place in peace. 52 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: But as Sarah mentioned, tensions were high. You know, just 53 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 1: a few days earlier to London dairy policemen had been killed, 54 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: and so many people were really on edge. But others, 55 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 1: and will include a lot of young people in this 56 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 1: group too. We're just out there to be together and 57 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 1: take part in this protest. One of the injured women 58 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: later recounted that she had gone to hang out with 59 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:28,079 Speaker 1: her friends and to show off her new coat. So 60 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: I don't think of this protest as having every single 61 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: person involved, at the height of distress and ready to 62 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: be violent. It wasn't quite like that, and the ten 63 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: thousand people marched towards Guildhall Square, but they found it 64 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 1: barricaded because in anticipation of trouble, the first battalion of 65 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: the Parachute Regiment had been sent from Belfast to Dairy 66 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: and the recent reports suggested that perhaps this was the 67 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: wrong group to try to maintain the peace with, since 68 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: they were known for their horse So when the crowd 69 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: hit the barricade, most turned toward Fredairy Corner and others 70 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: stayed on course, and that's when a riot began typical 71 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: and that the protesters throw stones and the troops fired 72 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: rubber bullets and a water cannon, but the troops had 73 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 1: orders to arrest as many people as possible, and the 74 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: violence began to escalate, and so shots rang out, and 75 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: within half an hour thirteen protesters were dead and fourteen 76 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 1: were injured, one of whom later died from his wounds, 77 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: and a lot of the dead are really young boys 78 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 1: about seventeen years old, and the most famous image from 79 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 1: the event is one of those young boys, seventeen year 80 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: old named Jackie Duddy, who was mortally wounded, and there's 81 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: a famous picture of him being rushed out of the 82 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:48,839 Speaker 1: crowd with a priest in front of him waving a 83 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 1: white handkerchief as a flag. And from those thirty minutes 84 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 1: of violence, many questions arose, who fired first, where the 85 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: dead men armed or innocence civilians, and who was responsible. 86 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: An inquiry was immediately ordered by Prime Minister Edward Heath 87 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: and was led by the Lord Chief Justice of England, 88 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 1: Lord Widgery, and he quickly produced a sixty page report 89 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 1: concluding that while the dead didn't have weapons on them 90 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 1: on their dead bodies, they may have been armed before that, 91 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: or may have fired weapons before and it also concluded 92 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: that the demonstrators had definitely fired the first shots which 93 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: necessitated the army's response, and people are understandably outraged at 94 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: this conclusion. The Dairy coroner said that the deaths were 95 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: unadulterated murder, So there's no question about what most of 96 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: the people involved felt about this incident, and so for 97 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: the next several decades, nationalists and relatives of the victims 98 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: and just people interested in seeing justice carried out, pushed 99 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 1: for a new inquiry, and the violence spread to this 100 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: the events of Bloody Sunday really pushed the state of 101 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: Northern Ireland in to catastrophe. Bloody Sunday basically ended these 102 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,359 Speaker 1: non violent approaches to civil rights as more people began 103 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 1: to support the IRA, which advocated force against the UK 104 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 1: to get them out of Northern Ireland. Yeah, only a 105 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 1: few weeks after the incident, the Prime Minister had suspended 106 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 1: Parliament in Belfast and imposed direct British rule, and only 107 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: six months after the event, the provisional IRA came out 108 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 1: really hard. They detonated twenty bombs ever Belfast, killing nine people, 109 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: mutilating a hundred and thirty people, and over the next 110 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: few decades at least three thousand, six hundred people die 111 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: in these troubled times between the two countries. This direct 112 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 1: rule lasted until nine with the Good Friday Peace Pact 113 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: which helped de escalate the violence, and Prime Minister Tony 114 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 1: Blair also marked the piece by commissioning an inquest to 115 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: the event which had sent the troubles spiraling out of control, 116 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: which is Bloody Sunday. So the inquest produced a report, 117 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 1: the Savile Inquiry, which was led by the Judge Lord 118 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: Saville and took twelve years to research it called witnesses, 119 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: and it cost two hundred and eighty million dollars, and 120 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: I'd like to thank the New York Times for converting 121 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: that figure into dollars for me. And at least one man, 122 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: Mickey McKinney, who was the brother of one of the victims, 123 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: attended every day of the hearings, which is unbelievable, hearings 124 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: that go on for twelve years. Just imagine how much 125 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 1: that would dominate your life. He even commuted to London 126 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: for a time when they had moved the case there 127 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: because they were concerned about the safety of some of 128 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: the people testifying. And this inquiry completely recreated the events 129 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: oft and most importantly answered those lingering questions. It concluded 130 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: that none of the victims had posed a threat, that 131 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: the first shots came from the British Army, and that 132 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: while there was some firing from Republican paramilitaries mixed in 133 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: with the crowd, it didn't warrant shooting on our civilians. 134 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 1: And also that none of the soldiers had fired in 135 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: response to people throwing projectiles, something the soldiers lawyers had 136 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: long claimed. And then, in this remarkable speech that happened 137 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: just a few days before we're recording this, the still 138 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: new Prime Minister David Cameron apologized before Parliament saying that 139 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: the bloody Sunday shootings were quote both unjustified and unjustifiable, 140 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: and that quote what happened should never ever have happened. 141 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: The families of those who died should not have had 142 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 1: to live with the pain and hurt of that day 143 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 1: in a lifetime of loss. Some members of our armed 144 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: forces acted wrongly. The Government is ultimately responsible for the 145 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: conduct of the armed forces and for that on the 146 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 1: behalf of the government and indeed our country. I am 147 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: deeply sorry. So very powerful words to come from the 148 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: Prime Minister to Parliament, and they were viewed by news 149 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: people all over the world and most importantly people in 150 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: Northern Ireland have met with years and Londonderry people were 151 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: congregating with you know, photos of the victims and ripping 152 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: up the old Widgery report to to celebrate what he 153 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: was saying. Yeah, and the report really does give us 154 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: a lot of new insight into what actually happened, specific details. 155 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: As I said earlier, it's really a blow by blow thing. 156 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:23,719 Speaker 1: The the summary of the report is sixty pages. That's 157 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: how long the old report is that gives you a 158 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: pretty good example of how detailed it is. But one 159 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: of the things we get a better sense about is 160 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 1: the order that things progressed in that events progressed in. 161 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: And we know that the parachute Regiment had had orders 162 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 1: to arrest rioters, but the orders from ground Commander Brigadier 163 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: Pat McClellan had been to make arrest only when the 164 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: rioters were separate from the marchers, to to split up 165 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: those two groups, and instead Colonel Derreck Wilford pursued arrest 166 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: in the crowd where there was no way to tell 167 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: who was who, who was a rioter who was trying 168 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:01,559 Speaker 1: to flee the scene. And meanwhile, an anonymous Lieutenant Inn 169 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: fired shots over the head of the crowd, which was 170 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: a really big mistake because it sent his own fellow 171 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: soldiers into panic. They didn't know where the shots were 172 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 1: coming from. Imagine in the middle of a riot, they 173 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: have the fog guns going off, the water hoses, you 174 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 1: can't tell what's going on, and they hear these bullets 175 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 1: starting to fire. The report noted that quote soldiers reacted 176 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,839 Speaker 1: by losing their self control and firing themselves forgetting or 177 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: ignoring their instructions and training, and failing to satisfy themselves 178 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: that they had identified targets posing a threat of causing 179 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: death or serious injury, and they likely believe that they 180 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: were firing at provisional or official IRA members, But in reality, 181 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 1: only one of those killed, Gerald Donnie, was even a 182 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 1: member of the group's youth wing, and while he was 183 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: quote probably carrying nail bombs, the report still calls his 184 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: death unjustified and concluded that one victim was shot while 185 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: crawling away and that another was shot at while already 186 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: dying and already several of the soldiers who had not 187 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: fired shots rejected this report's criticism of Wilford, saying that 188 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: some senior official had to be blamed and it happened 189 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: to be Wilford. But what's really interesting about the report 190 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 1: is its acknowledgement of the shooting's future impact on the 191 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: relations between England and Northern Ireland. It goes pretty in 192 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,920 Speaker 1: depth with that, and one quote is what happened on 193 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: Bloody Sunday strengthened the Provisional IRA, increased nationalist resentment and 194 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,720 Speaker 1: hostility towards the army, and exacerbated the violent conflicts of 195 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: the years that followed, so it's really acknowledging all that 196 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: comes from this single thirty minute incident. So the solid 197 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: report helped settle some long held questions about who was responsible, 198 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: and it also gave family members the chance to you know, 199 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: many of them are getting up in front of crowds 200 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 1: and saying the name of their their loved one, the victim, 201 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: and then being able to say innocent after it, because 202 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 1: they all knew that they were in an But now 203 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: you've got, you know, that that official word that yes, 204 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: they didn't do anything wrong. But there's at least one 205 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: big question left, which is should the soldiers and their 206 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: commander face criminal prosecution And the decision rests with Northern 207 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: Ireland's Public Prosecution Service, something Cameron alluded to in his speech, 208 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: and it's likely that new information will come out on 209 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: this by the time we published this episode, and in 210 00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: fact the story was updating as Sarah was researching. It's 211 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 1: also interesting to note that this report has been ready 212 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,760 Speaker 1: for a short time at least. The former Prime Minister 213 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 1: Brown actually kept back the results until the country's May 214 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:42,319 Speaker 1: elections were over because he was afraid that what the results, 215 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: whatever they may be, would cause some sort of trouble, 216 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: and Cameron also alluded to the overall history of Britain 217 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,719 Speaker 1: in Ireland during this time period, trying to point out 218 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: that a thousand soldiers and policemen had been killed during 219 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: the conflicts and that this was a terrible anomaly out 220 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: of um, out of the regular service that was going on. 221 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: But he also said that you do not defend the 222 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 1: British Army by defending the indefensible. We do not honor 223 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: all those who have served with distinction in keeping the 224 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 1: peace and upholding the rule of law in Northern Ireland 225 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: by hiding from the truth. So it's interesting to see 226 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: such a candid document come out and have a Prime 227 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: Minister talk about it in such a way, and I 228 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: guess we can only hope that it works to promote 229 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 1: future peace and not do anything to hinder it. Well, 230 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: after all, like Bono says, the two song Bloody Sunday 231 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: is not a rebel song and that reps up what 232 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: we know today about Bloody Sunday, although of course that 233 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 1: may change. And that brings us to listener mail. One 234 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: listener wrote us about a podcast we did a while 235 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:00,559 Speaker 1: back on St Patrick's Day, Brian Boru, and he said, 236 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 1: I know it's a while since you did your podcast 237 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: about Brian Boru, but there's one important aspect of his 238 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: success that you missed, and that slavery. In Ireland. At 239 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: the time, those defeated in battle would surrender except the 240 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:14,839 Speaker 1: overlordship of their victor and go home to lick their 241 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: wounds and give military support to their new overlord until 242 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: the next time they felt strong enough to oppose him. 243 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: And when Brian's dull cash captured Limerick from the Vikings, 244 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: they had a much more lucrative option available to them. 245 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: They sold their vanquished opponents into slavery, and whatever Brian's 246 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: dislike of the Vikings of Limerick, he was happy to 247 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: use them to destroy his enemies. To be defeated in 248 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: battle by Brian Boru could easily mean being marched to 249 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 1: Limerick in chains, loaded on board a Viking ship, and 250 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: finding yourself the property of a Spanish or North African 251 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 1: war For Brian, it meant a defeated enemy need not 252 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: be of any future concern. His war chest would be 253 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: filled with foreign gold and potential enemies would have to 254 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: think very carefully about opposing him. I wish I could 255 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: remember my sources, but unfortunate only I can only pass 256 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: it on as top of the head information which may 257 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: interest you but can be used. 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