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Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of My Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to Too Much Information, the show

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Speaker 1: that brings you the secret history of little loan facts

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Speaker 1: behind your favorite music, movies, TV shows, and more. We

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Speaker 1: are your two witches of the world wide Web, your

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Speaker 1: two conjurors of classic movie anecdotes, your one waving weirdos

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Speaker 1: of way too granular details. My name is Jordan run

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Speaker 1: Tug and I'm Alex and today we are talking about

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Speaker 1: a Disney Halloween classic, much beloved by our fellow millennials,

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Speaker 1: Focus Pocus, he said, with lead in enthusiasm. Yeah, you know, folks,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna drop my mask a bit. I'm gonna level

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Speaker 1: with you. You know, normally when we do these shows,

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Speaker 1: at least one, if not both of us, we have

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Speaker 1: a fondness for the topic. Though I have to say

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Speaker 1: I do love it when you hate something high goal.

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Speaker 1: I maybe I'm a masochist. I think it's funny when

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Speaker 1: you hate something I adore. But this time around, we

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Speaker 1: can't fake this. I don't want to lie to you.

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Speaker 1: Neither of us particularly care for this movie, so my knowledge,

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Speaker 1: neither of us have ever seen it. I've seen it once.

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Speaker 1: You didn't see it in must have been nineties six,

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Speaker 1: all right, yeah, so yeah, I've never seen it. I've

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Speaker 1: seen it once, um, five years ago. I've I've tried

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Speaker 1: to get into it. You know what. Actually, yesterday I

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Speaker 1: took a field trip to the town of Salem, Massachusetts

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Speaker 1: to really try to get into the spirit. And it

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Speaker 1: just wasn't happening for me. I wasn't a spooky, scary kid.

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Speaker 1: I tell you what. I really didn't like Halloween ever.

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Speaker 1: Tell you my Halloween story. No, yeah, my first Halloween,

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Speaker 1: I was just like, all right, let me get this straight.

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Speaker 1: Five years old. My whole life so far, you've told

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Speaker 1: me not to take candy from strangers, and now you're

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Speaker 1: telling me to do exactly that. So they're giving me

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Speaker 1: pep talks. They're like, all right, you know, it's okay,

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Speaker 1: you can go up to the stranger's house. You can.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm not it was an introvert anyway, So

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Speaker 1: actually go up to a stranger and ask for something

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Speaker 1: is just completely you know, an athemat to anything that

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Speaker 1: I'm about. No, it's okay, it's okay. You say trick

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Speaker 1: a treat and then they give you candy and you

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Speaker 1: walk away. It's gonna be great. I liked candy, so this,

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Speaker 1: you know, all right? At last it was a payoff here.

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Speaker 1: I was a bowling pin for my first Halloween, um,

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Speaker 1: because I love bowling. So I went up to the

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Speaker 1: first house and I rang the door and the woman

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Speaker 1: came to the door. I said, trick a treat and

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Speaker 1: she said trick, what are you gonna do now? And

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Speaker 1: I burst into tears and I turned around and I left.

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Speaker 1: And that was my first Halloween. And i've i've really,

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Speaker 1: i've hated it ever since. And I i've also I've

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Speaker 1: looked like I do now as a thirty almost thirty

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Speaker 1: five year old man since I was about eleven or twelve.

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Speaker 1: So when I would be eleven or twelve, you would

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Speaker 1: get parents at the door handing out candy, saying I

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Speaker 1: got you a little old for this, and to be

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Speaker 1: in like fifth grade. So yeah, oh no, I'm just

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Speaker 1: always way too shy and self conscious to have a

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Speaker 1: really enjoy Halloween, way too easily scared to enjoy all

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Speaker 1: the spooky stuff. Yeah, some pokus focus never really did

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Speaker 1: it for me. What do you think? I love Halloween?

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Speaker 1: It's the best. Halloween's the best, best season it's got

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Speaker 1: all the best stuff candy and jan Kee decorations and yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I just I love it. My parents

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Speaker 1: had great costumes for us. And what's your favorite. I

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Speaker 1: had a pretty good Dracula one, Yeah, pretty good Dracula one.

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Speaker 1: I had a pretty good Werewolf one. Yeah. And I

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Speaker 1: just I just really love horror movies too. But this

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Speaker 1: is not a good movie. Let's let's just say the

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Speaker 1: quiet part out loud. It is like I get the

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Speaker 1: thing is I was like ten to twelve and I

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Speaker 1: was just not yeah and then and so I have

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Speaker 1: no like grandfather day in affection for it. And it's

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Speaker 1: just it's not that good. And and I'm sorry. I

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Speaker 1: mean people are gonna be like, who could you see that?

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Speaker 1: Like because you watched it when you were a child,

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Speaker 1: and like, I like, there's a lot of things that

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Speaker 1: this is. This whole thing is like you could like

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Speaker 1: things when your child, and but that doesn't you know,

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Speaker 1: let me say this. Roger Ebert agrees with US Entertainment

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Speaker 1: Weekly and Jane's Sisko, And yeah, it was when it

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Speaker 1: was released. It was not a success when it was released.

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Speaker 1: It's like that, it's like the it's the Hannibal Birds Day,

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Speaker 1: It's like, why are you booing me? I'm right, you

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Speaker 1: know so, But you know what I think. I say

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Speaker 1: that without malice though. It's not a good movie, but

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Speaker 1: I love that people are excited about it. I am,

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Speaker 1: and it's got some great stories behind it. So let's

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Speaker 1: just let's just dive in. Yes, absolutely, through no fault

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Speaker 1: of its own, this movie never really resonated with either

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Speaker 1: of us, but you know it's important to you, dear listeners,

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Speaker 1: so we did our very best to give you what

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Speaker 1: I think is a truly spectacular show. And especially now

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Speaker 1: we've got the release of the sequel, Focus Focused Too

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Speaker 1: earlier this year, it's as good a time as any.

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Speaker 1: I can't wait. Let's dive in from all the weird

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Speaker 1: ties this movie as to the film Titanic and the

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Speaker 1: film American Beauty, and the show Friends. To the surprising

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Speaker 1: reason it broke Steven Spielberg's heart, the reason Kathy and

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Speaker 1: Jimmy was initially afraid to appear in it, the Sarah

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Speaker 1: Jessica Parker's ancestral ties to the Salem witch Trials. There's

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Speaker 1: an army of black cats, piles of rotten pumpkins, mouthfuls

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Speaker 1: of moths, and also the true reason why everyone in

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Speaker 1: New England says that things are wicked. Here's everything you

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Speaker 1: didn't know about Disney's hocus Pocus. The plot of hocus

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Speaker 1: Pocus was born when a black cat crossed the path

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Speaker 1: of producer David Kirshner in the early eighties. Usually that's

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Speaker 1: supposed to be bad luck when a black cat crosses

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Speaker 1: your path, But in this case, I'd say I worked

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Speaker 1: out pretty well for David Kirshner. The time, he was

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Speaker 1: known mostly for coming up with the story for an

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Speaker 1: American tale, but he says that the plot for hocus

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Speaker 1: Pocus came to him one day when a black cat

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Speaker 1: wandered into his family yard, and to amuse, slash terrify

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Speaker 1: his young daughter, he made up a bedtime story about

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Speaker 1: this cat being a boy who was cursed by three

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Speaker 1: witches some three hundred years ago to inhabit the body

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Speaker 1: of a cat. And this alway isn't quite as strange

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Speaker 1: as it may sound. He later told the rap that

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Speaker 1: Halloween was a huge deal in the Kirshner family home.

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Speaker 1: He said, our family is a bit like the Adams family,

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Speaker 1: so you know, telling two little girls a bedtime story

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Speaker 1: about which is sucking the life out of children. It's

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Speaker 1: probably not the best decision as far as parental gentleness

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Speaker 1: is concerned, but from the time they were little, they

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Speaker 1: love this kind of world of things that go bump

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Speaker 1: in the night, and the story would ultimately become the

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Speaker 1: tragic tale of Thackeray Binks, a young man who was

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Speaker 1: turned into a cat by the three Witchie Sanderson's sisters,

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Speaker 1: and the name Thackeray Binks actually has a personal connection

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Speaker 1: to David Kirshner. The name was inspired in part by

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Speaker 1: a stray black cat he'd taken in as a kid,

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Speaker 1: who they called Inks for his inky black fur. Hence

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Speaker 1: Binks and Kursner liked this story well enough to write

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Speaker 1: it up and submit it to Muppet Magazine, which I

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Speaker 1: had no idea was a thing where it got some attention,

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Speaker 1: and that's when he just I did to start developing

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Speaker 1: it into a full length script. Yeah, David Kirshner has

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Speaker 1: just one of the wildest cvs. I mean, he goes

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Speaker 1: from American Tale, which he also wrote, to the Child's

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Speaker 1: Play franchise. He is, along with writer director Don Mancini,

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Speaker 1: the big creative engine behind that franchise. He created the

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Speaker 1: animatronic doll for Chucky and has produced all seven films

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Speaker 1: in the original franchise. Yeah, good on him. Also, Muppet Magazine.

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Speaker 1: Did you read anything about Bumppa Magazine? No? I know

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Speaker 1: nothing about It's kind of incredible. It featured real life

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Speaker 1: celebrity guests alongside the Muppets, and the Muppets got like

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Speaker 1: recurring columns like, uh, Floyd from the band would review records,

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Speaker 1: and Statler and Waldorf would review movies. Well, that's their

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Speaker 1: cisco and Ebert I exactly give me ms. Piggy has

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Speaker 1: an advice column. Um. And you can see all these

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Speaker 1: covers out there from this magazine that we're um like

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Speaker 1: Brooke Shields, Olivia Newton, John Christopher Reeves, Steve Martin, Danny DeVito,

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Speaker 1: Don Johnson. I mean, this whole thing was run by

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Speaker 1: a guy named Don Wells who had came to it

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Speaker 1: after stints at Fortune and Rolling Stone. So yeah, dude,

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Speaker 1: Muppet Magazine real, real heavy hitter in the publishing world. Wow.

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Speaker 1: So okay, this makes a lot more sense that success

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Speaker 1: in Muppet Magazine put him on the path to trying

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Speaker 1: to pitch this to Disney. Okay, so the plot of

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Speaker 1: the movie that you all, I'm not gonna say, we

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Speaker 1: know and love. You know and Love mostly focuses on

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Speaker 1: the kids, but the original version of hocus Pocus was

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Speaker 1: a lot darker. Krisher developed the story with a guy

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Speaker 1: named Mick Garris, who had a career writing horror movies

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Speaker 1: and he produced and directed several documentaries about horror films

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Speaker 1: and worked as a story editor and writer on the

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Speaker 1: Amazing Stories TV series that was produced by Steven Spielberg,

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Speaker 1: who will talk more about in a moment now. Chris

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Speaker 1: Star had worked with Spielberg somewhat extensively, most notably and

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Speaker 1: most recently on the American Tale movie. So that was

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Speaker 1: the connection between the producer David Kirshner and writer Mick Garris.

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Speaker 1: G Garris has written critters to the Main Course. He

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Speaker 1: also wrote Batteries Not Included Um and the sequel to

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Speaker 1: The Fly. Yeah, he's a legit dude. So he's collaborating

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Speaker 1: with Dave Kirshner on Focus Pocus. And in this early version,

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Speaker 1: the kids were actually a little younger and everything was

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Speaker 1: a little bit more evil. As Gary said, the kids

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Speaker 1: being younger in more Jeopardy was certainly more explicitly frightening.

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Speaker 1: Later versions of the script made two of the children

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Speaker 1: older to attract the different demographic to sell more tickets

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Speaker 1: and make the film more broadly comic. My version centered

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Speaker 1: on the fears of a younger, less mature kid and

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Speaker 1: how they would face death in a graveyard, which damn.

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Speaker 1: Kathy and Jimmy also says that the movie they shot

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Speaker 1: was pretty drastically different from the movie that was completed

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Speaker 1: during the anniversary screening in eighteen. She told sci Fi

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Speaker 1: Wire it was cut and edited completely different than it

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Speaker 1: was filmed. It was really more about the witches and

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Speaker 1: less about the kids. Apparently, Disney being Disney, wanted to

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Speaker 1: make the film more kid friendly, so they removed, by

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Speaker 1: the Jimmy's estimation, five huge scenes with the Sanderson's sisters

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Speaker 1: the witches, including one scene that was set in the

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Speaker 1: supermarket that actually wound up in the movie trailer, And

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Speaker 1: there were also scenes that were cut where kids tried

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Speaker 1: to push the witches into a pool, and also seeing

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Speaker 1: where the witches were handing out candy to trick or treaters.

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Speaker 1: That sounds funny. The original title of this movie was

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Speaker 1: slated to be Disney's Halloween house, which flows, yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: hocus pocus clearly superior. The phrase has been in use

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Speaker 1: since at least sixteen twenty as an incantation used by

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Speaker 1: magicians alongside Abrica dabra, and the idea behind these exotic

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Speaker 1: phrases was part shamanship and drama, but also kind of

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Speaker 1: the audio equivalent of sleight of hand. The magicians would

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Speaker 1: hope that these phrases would serve as brief distractions for

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Speaker 1: the audience so that they could, you know, do what

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Speaker 1: they needed to do to pull off the trick. And

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Speaker 1: the phrase hocus pocus is thought to be a pervert

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Speaker 1: ursion of the Latin sacramental blessing hawks corpus menum, which

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Speaker 1: is I'm sure I'm pronouncing wrong. This is my body

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Speaker 1: from Latin Mass. I've never been to Latin Mass that

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Speaker 1: much of a Catholic and Catholic yeah yeah, my my

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Speaker 1: relatives were priests. I didn't know that. Um. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: Kirchener goes to pitch his movie at Disney way back,

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Speaker 1: and to really sell the idea, he made what was

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Speaker 1: essentially an elementary school Halloween party for these executives, which is, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's very cute, he says, He got to the meeting

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Speaker 1: a half hour early and arranged somewhere between two and

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Speaker 1: fifteen pounds of candy corn accounts of arry on the

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Speaker 1: conference room table in the shape of a snake to

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Speaker 1: create the smell of Halloween. Pitching is about, you know,

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Speaker 1: all five, engaging all five of the senses. He also

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Speaker 1: hung props all around the room, like childlike drawings of

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Speaker 1: black cats, brooms suspended from the ceiling, and even a

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Speaker 1: vacuum cleaner, uh, which is a nod to the way

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Speaker 1: that the Sanderson sisters get around in these modern times.

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Speaker 1: Then he darkened the lights in the room and ushered

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Speaker 1: the executives in being Jeffrey Katzenberg being led into a

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Speaker 1: child's Halloween party in his conference room. They all loved

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Speaker 1: the idea, but apparently the initial plan was for this

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Speaker 1: to be a made for TV movie for the newly

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Speaker 1: created Disney Channel, which had launched a year earlier in

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Speaker 1: eighty three and was just desperately in need of new material.

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Speaker 1: That is the rumor. It's unclear what point in the

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Speaker 1: process that it was upgraded from made for TV to

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Speaker 1: theatrical feature. Um there are versions that say that the

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Speaker 1: exacts were just super excited about the script. There's other

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Speaker 1: versions that claim when Bette Midler signed up, they decided

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Speaker 1: to go big with it. There's also a theory that

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Speaker 1: the finished movie was just too frightening for Disney Channel consideration,

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Speaker 1: especially some of the makeup stuff, which we'll get too later.

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Speaker 1: And given the fact that it was eight years between

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Speaker 1: the pitch meeting of eighty four and the start of

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Speaker 1: production in n clearly there was some conversations that took place.

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Speaker 1: I like to imagine, um, they did the old blindfolding

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Speaker 1: and gave him a cold spaghetti and they're like the

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Speaker 1: grapes appeeled grapes, and they were like, and this is

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Speaker 1: Steven Spielberg's eyes, cold spaghetti being like in this is

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Speaker 1: is David Geffen's brands, Roy Disney's brands. Who Uh. It's

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Speaker 1: a long standing tradition here on t M. I to

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Speaker 1: drag Jeffrey Katzenberg whenever he appears on the show. Which

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Speaker 1: a powerful enemy. Yeah, we've picked we picked possibly the

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Speaker 1: most the worst enemy. He is a vengeful man and

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Speaker 1: thin skinned. Um. This story recently came out in Andy

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Speaker 1: ortiz Is Amazing Oral History of Hocus Pocus. A few

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Speaker 1: weeks back. In the rap. So it's important to remember

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Speaker 1: that David Kirshner had made his name with An American Tale,

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Speaker 1: which he had initially pitched to Katzenberg at Disney before

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Speaker 1: Spielberg picked it up. According to a recent interview Kershner

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Speaker 1: gave to the Rap, Katzenberg turned it down quite rudely. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this is Kirscher saying. I presented an American Tale to him,

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Speaker 1: and Jeffrey said, I won't use his language, but who

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Speaker 1: the f is going to go see a film about

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Speaker 1: a Jewish mouse? And I said, well, who's going to

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Speaker 1: see a film about a wooden puppet? M I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's where you take these characters, with the art, with

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Speaker 1: the emotions, what the story is. And he said, nice,

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Speaker 1: try thank you anyway, and that was the end of it. God,

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Speaker 1: he sucks, And I was fortunate that Spielberg felt very

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Speaker 1: differently and bought it. Spielberg bought An American Tale for

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Speaker 1: his new production company, Amblin Entertainment, and in nineteen six

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Speaker 1: on American Tale became the highest performing non Disney animated

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Speaker 1: movie ever at the time, all thanks to Steven Spielberg

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Speaker 1: giving him the chance. Now, in this retailing in the Rap,

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Speaker 1: Kirshner said that he took hocus Pocus to Disney first,

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Speaker 1: even though they'd rejected an American tale, and according to Kirshner,

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Speaker 1: this broke Spielberg's heart. He recalled seeing uh Spielberg's production partner,

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Speaker 1: Kathleen Kennedy at a party and she said, you know,

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Speaker 1: he really hurt Stephen. And, as Kirshner tells the story,

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Speaker 1: and I was like what And she said, the fact

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Speaker 1: that after he gave you your first film, you didn't

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Speaker 1: even bring hocus Pocus to him, You went right to Disney.

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Speaker 1: I honestly felt tears in the back of my eyes.

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Speaker 1: This is a really painful memory for me that I

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Speaker 1: upset Stephen, who, as I say, I owe everything too. However,

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Speaker 1: this is when it begins to get fuzzy. Mick Garris, screenwriter,

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Speaker 1: has claimed that he and producer David Kircher pitched hocus

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Speaker 1: Pocus to Spielberg first, but he ultimately passed because Spielberg

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Speaker 1: was starting his own production company, Amblin and didn't want

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Speaker 1: to work with Disney. Garris said he loved it until

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Speaker 1: he found out that Disney was already involved. At that time,

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Speaker 1: Disney and Amblin were very competitive in the family film market,

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Speaker 1: so neither of them wanted to be in business with

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Speaker 1: the other, but it was very close to being a

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Speaker 1: project with Steven Spielberg. Reps for Spielberg did not comment

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Speaker 1: on the rap story, which is famously cold shoulder in

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Speaker 1: the celebrity entertainment journalism world, so jury is still out

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Speaker 1: on that one. If you were a loved one can

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Speaker 1: prove a verified timeline of the pitching process for Hocus Pocus.

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Speaker 1: Jordan vemo you five bucks. So that's enough industry backstabbing

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Speaker 1: for one episode. I tend to believe Kirshner because the

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Speaker 1: story doesn't make him sound good, which makes me believe him.

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Speaker 1: You know, you, piste Off Spielberg, the guy who gave

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Speaker 1: you your big break seems like the kind of mortifying

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Speaker 1: thing that you probably remember kind of sticks with you.

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Speaker 1: So I tend to believe Kirshner in this whole version

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Speaker 1: that he just accidentally hurt him. So that's sad, but anyway,

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Speaker 1: for a director, Disney tapped Kenny Ortega, who t m

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Speaker 1: I fans will remember as the choreographer who worked with

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Speaker 1: Gene Kelly on the roller disco Bomb Zanna Do, and

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Speaker 1: he would go on to direct Disney Juggernauts High School

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Speaker 1: Musical one through three Cheetah Girls too, and he also

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Speaker 1: choreographed tours for share Kids, Gloria Estefan, and to me

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Speaker 1: most famously, Michael Jackson for the ill fated This Is

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Speaker 1: It tour that never happened in two thousand nine because

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Speaker 1: he died. But back when hocus Pocus was getting off

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Speaker 1: the ground, or Taka had just directed the Disney movie

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Speaker 1: musical news Ees starring Christian Vale, but that movie tanked

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Speaker 1: after its release in the spring of pulling in just

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Speaker 1: two point eight million dollars unreported fifteen million dollar budget,

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Speaker 1: thus making it one of Disney's lowest grossing live action movies. Ever,

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize it was that big of a flop,

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Speaker 1: so hocus Pocus was seen as a chance to prove

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Speaker 1: himself and unfortunately, as we'll find out, the box office

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Speaker 1: score for hocus Pocus was pretty much as dismal as Newsies. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so we mentioned earlier that one of the armchair theories

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Speaker 1: behind why hocus Pocus went from being a made for

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Speaker 1: TV movie to theatrical release was because Bett Midler signed on.

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Speaker 1: So now we must talk about Bett Midler. Initially, the

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Speaker 1: part of Winifred Sanderson was written with Chloris Leachman and

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Speaker 1: mine Chloris leech friend of the Pod, Chloris Leachman, famously

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Speaker 1: of The Last Picture Show, The Mary Tyler Moore Show,

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Speaker 1: and an X of Bobby Boris Pickett. If decades old

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Speaker 1: monster match Hollywood scuttle Buddies to be believed, David Kirchner

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Speaker 1: admitted at the annual screening of hocus Pocus, and the

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Speaker 1: first person that I really wanted for Winnifred Sanderson was

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Speaker 1: Chloris Leachman, And that was the first person because I

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Speaker 1: was so in love with her from the mel Brooks films,

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Speaker 1: from Young Frankenstein especially, which makes total sense. It's unclear

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Speaker 1: whether or not Chlorus was actually offered the role, but

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Speaker 1: ultimately they went with Bette Midler, who had already made

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Speaker 1: a number of movies with Disney's Touchstone Pictures in Print,

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Speaker 1: Down and Out, Beverly Hills, Ruthless People, and Outrageous Fortune,

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Speaker 1: as well as voicing Georgette the Poodle in Oliver and Company,

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Speaker 1: a movie I remember nothing about except for that banger

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Speaker 1: of a Billy Joel song that's a rip Street Savoir fair.

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Speaker 1: Why shut up will Uh. Anyway, her involvement was really

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Speaker 1: pivotal for this uh. David Kirshner later said, had she

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Speaker 1: not said yes, I'm not sure if hocus Pocus would

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Speaker 1: have ever been made. Mittler was interested in the movie

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Speaker 1: because of her young daughter, Sophie. She told Kirshner that

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Speaker 1: she wanted to do something that her little girl could

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Speaker 1: actually watch and appreciate after making mostly R rated films

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Speaker 1: throughout her career. She based her character on both the

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Speaker 1: Wicked Witch of the West from Wizard of Oz played

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Speaker 1: by Margaret Hamilton's who will get to in a moment,

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Speaker 1: and also Angelica Houston's character of the Grand High Witch

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Speaker 1: from nineteen nineties The Witches. Do you have? Did you

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Speaker 1: have familiarity with the Witches? No? Not at all? Oh boy, horrifying, horrified,

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Speaker 1: truly horrifying, or just yes she is. Just do be

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Speaker 1: a favorite. Google the Grand High Witch. Wanna I want

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Speaker 1: to get your facial reaction live on live on the screen.

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Speaker 1: Oh my, yeah, that's her. That's Angelica Houston. Baby, I

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Speaker 1: mean she's she's decomposing. That's wow. That makes the crip

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Speaker 1: Keeper look vivacious. Jesus Christ. Okay, wow, I did not

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Speaker 1: need to see that at this hour. Okay, well quick,

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Speaker 1: let's get back to Bette Midler, her and her campy career.

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Speaker 1: I love it. There's a cute nod to Bette Midler's career.

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Speaker 1: Earlier in the film, Kathy and Jimmy's character Mary says

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Speaker 1: to Winnifred winnefer thou art divine Bette Midler, famously known

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Speaker 1: for her nickname the Divine miss m And she did

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Speaker 1: indeed singing this movie. Because they're gonna have Bette Midler

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Speaker 1: in your movie. It's stupid not to have her sing.

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Speaker 1: She does a version of I Put a Spell on you, uh,

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Speaker 1: famously by screaming Jay Hopkins and Nina Simone pick your favorite.

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Speaker 1: They're both amazing uh. And credence and credence. Okay, I

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Speaker 1: put a spell on you song by a witch, low

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Speaker 1: hanging fruit, but I'll allow it. Uh. And Thora Birch

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Speaker 1: remembers Bet wowing the set during downtime on the shoot

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Speaker 1: with her singing. She said, Bett and Thora, who was

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Speaker 1: like and at this point were suspended from the ceiling

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Speaker 1: and flying harnesses to film one of the final scenes

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Speaker 1: of the movie, and as Thora recalled to the rap

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Speaker 1: for that amazing oral history we just spoke about. It

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Speaker 1: was towards the end of how long we had to

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Speaker 1: be up there, and we were both pretty miserable. But

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Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, Bet just starts singing and

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Speaker 1: everybody stops, which probably wasn't a good idea because they

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Speaker 1: clearly needed to keep working. But when Bet sings, everybody stops,

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Speaker 1: and I was just like, oh my god, this is

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Speaker 1: freaking awesome. She's like singing to comfort us. That was

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Speaker 1: a completely memorable moment. And Thora, who was like ten

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Speaker 1: at the time, remembers that Bet quote had two people

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Speaker 1: running around behind her with dictionaries of old curse words,

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Speaker 1: and that's where she came up with legendary unscripted digs

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Speaker 1: like Trollamog and magatry mouthfeasance, which is awesome. Unrelated side note,

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Speaker 1: do you know that Thora birches mom, Carol Connors, was

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Speaker 1: in Deep Throat? Yeah. The only reason I checked that

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Speaker 1: was because I saw that her mom was Carol Connors,

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Speaker 1: and I misread it as Carol O'Connor, and I thought

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Speaker 1: briefly that Thora Birch's dad was Archie Bunker, and all

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Speaker 1: in the family Carol O'Connor, but I was wrong. Um yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess both of Thora's parents were adult entertainment performers.

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Speaker 1: Your dad, Jack Birch, was a porn star. So wait,

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Speaker 1: did they meet doing porn? I think so that's incredible. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: good for them. I bet that's not a story that

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Speaker 1: gets told every Christmas. I was googling. Someone suggested that

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Speaker 1: they did meet on the set of Deep Throat, but

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Speaker 1: I wasn't able to Actually, yeah, that was what I

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Speaker 1: thought I heard. Yeah they yeah, so yeah, they were

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Speaker 1: both in Deep Throat. That's uh, that's a hell, that's

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Speaker 1: a meat cute, that's a that's a movie we should make.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's basically love. Actually it's the it's the

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Speaker 1: Martin Friedman character gets stuff in there. I mean soccer

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Speaker 1: to me. For the part of the youngest Sanderson's sister, Sarah,

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Speaker 1: Oh god, that is the one of the only things

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Speaker 1: I remember about this movie is having a young preteen

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Speaker 1: stirring for Sarakha. Jessica Parker is the hot goth, which

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Speaker 1: they nearly got Jennifer Lopez cartoon Wolf. My tongue falling

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Speaker 1: out of my jaw. I have to hit myself on

420
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 1: the top of the head to roll it back up

421
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 1: with I hit myself on the head with a mallet,

422
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 1: et cetera. That was more of a that Mittler boy

423
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,399
Speaker 1: and they're in there in lives. The difference between us

424
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,680
Speaker 1: on Carson Saraha and Carson on the second to last episode,

425
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 1: Come On Melts. Jennifer Lopez auditioned for this, but it

426
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,360
Speaker 1: went to Sarah Jessica Parker, who is then hot off

427
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 1: her appearance and Steve Martin's l a story and this

428
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,199
Speaker 1: is wild makes sense because for all Jennifer Lopez as

429
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 1: many and obvious charms, she is not related to an

430
00:23:55,520 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: actual woman accused of witchcraft in the sixteen hundreds, as

431
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 1: Sarah Jessica Parker is during an appearance of the genealogy

432
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 1: show Who Do You Think You Are? Isn't that the

433
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: one where they surprised like like didn't afflect try and

434
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 1: bury the fact that his family like owned slaves That

435
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: I didn't hear that, but that's possible one of the

436
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 1: two of them did. Anyway, Sarah Jessica Parker learned that

437
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: she's the tenth great granddaughter of Esther l Well, who

438
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: stood accused during the Salem witch trials. When a young

439
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 1: girl said she saw esther's specter strangling a neighbor. L

440
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,880
Speaker 1: Well was arrested but never actually went to trial because

441
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 1: the accusations were starting to get so out of hand

442
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,479
Speaker 1: that even the governor's wife was getting accusations hurled at her.

443
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 1: And naturally, when the powerful get accused of crimes, the

444
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: laws changed quickly, so s JP's ancestor was released and

445
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,879
Speaker 1: reportedly lived into her eighties. Now, the so called Salem

446
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: witch trials occurred roughly between February and May see, during

447
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: which time more than two hundred men, women and children

448
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,120
Speaker 1: were accused of witchcraft. Out of all of those, nineteen

449
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,000
Speaker 1: of them were hanged. Most of these were women, but

450
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: there was one man named Giles Corey who was pressed

451
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 1: to death under heavy stones. Isn't that in the Crucible

452
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 1: when he's he's a guy who keeps calling for more weight?

453
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 1: I think so. Yeah, great death scene. We we we

454
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 1: stand Giles Corey. At least five more of those who've

455
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 1: been found guilty dyed in jail. Obviously the most famous

456
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 1: witch hunt this side of Joseph McCarthy and the Red

457
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 1: Scare of the fifties, but sadly not the only one

458
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 1: Between sixty seven and sixteen sixty nine in Connecticut, thirty

459
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: people were accused of witchcraft and eleven were hanged. During

460
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: the same time as the Salem witch trials, there were

461
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: similar trials in New Hampshire and Virginia, and these would

462
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 1: just keep popping up sporadically throughout the seventeen hundreds. Not

463
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 1: much to do, not not much else happening, might as

464
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 1: well accuse a bunch of people of witchcraft. However, the

465
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 1: last trial for witchcraft in the United States would occur

466
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: Faithful in Salem in eight Hopefully some of those spirits

467
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: were somewhat appeased by the casting of Sarah Jessica Parker

468
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: in Hocus Pocus. I mean, it's I've read somewhere. I

469
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,399
Speaker 1: should probably research this before I say this, But like

470
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: a lot of the people that were accused of being,

471
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: which is in addition to being people that the accusers

472
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 1: just didn't personally like because they owned land on land,

473
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,479
Speaker 1: I heard that there were also just people with you know,

474
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 1: people with tourettes, for example. But it was a really

475
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 1: easy way to seize land from women, which was already

476
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: a tenuous position for them, as was the fashion at

477
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,159
Speaker 1: the time. But yeah, you could. If you got her

478
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,880
Speaker 1: successfully accused and hanged, then you can just take that

479
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 1: land right right quick. Yeah. I think I read some

480
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 1: instances where like there would be people who would by

481
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 1: all accounts, seemed to go crazy. They start having visions

482
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 1: and start howling and start and it was I don't

483
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: remember what exactly it was, but it was some kind

484
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:07,479
Speaker 1: of like fairly easier to remedy vitamin deficiency that you know,

485
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: could have been solved in a matter of days. There

486
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 1: have been different academic studies that have advanced the theory

487
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: that the brief and intense illnesses suffered by townspeople that

488
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,199
Speaker 1: were chocked up to witchcraft were air goot is um,

489
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 1: a disease commonly contracted by rye bread And isn't that

490
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 1: where LSD you are, correct, sir? After the after the

491
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: after the rye plant contracts arrogate, the fungus grows and

492
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:40,400
Speaker 1: replaces the shoots on the grains with sclerotia. Sclerotia I'm

493
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 1: getting and um. Those growths contain lysurgic acid and basically, uh,

494
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: this stuff caused severe convulsions, muscle spasms, delusions, the sensation

495
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:57,360
Speaker 1: of crawling under the skin, and that's basically what they

496
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 1: think witchcraft was people tripping balls on bad rye bread.

497
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: You know, as with so many things in this country,

498
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: the explanation is so much stupider. Yeah, yeah, wow, amazing.

499
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: Only took us, like maybe, you know, under thirty minutes

500
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: just to to link hocus focus with acid. As you

501
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 1: meditate on that. We'll be right back with more too

502
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: much information after these messages, But back to your beloved

503
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 1: Sarah Jessica Parker. She later said that she felt her

504
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: character was quote the most fundamentally evil of all the

505
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: Sanders and sisters. She's so not bright, not calculating, but

506
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: it's her innate nature to be evil. For her older sisters,

507
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 1: it's a learned thing. Yet she's still somewhat seductive. She's

508
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: just awful, but I love her. There was very little

509
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: about our characters beyond the script itself, so it gave

510
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: me my first chance to really create a character, like

511
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: finding the voice and physical stuff. They wanted me to

512
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: do a Marilyn Monroe voice, but I found that boring,

513
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: so I came up with something like a small five

514
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: year old boy on helium. And there's a funny little

515
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: detail about Sarah Sanderson's hair that ties back to classic cinema.

516
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: There are actually several nods of the Wizard of Oz

517
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 1: in hocus Pocus, and one of them is the length

518
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: of Sarah Sanderson's hair. During the production of The Wizard

519
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 1: of Oz, I guess I'd never noticed this. There were

520
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: continuity issues with Dorothy's hair in some scenes, for pigtails

521
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: rest just below her shoulders, and in others they're quite

522
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: a bit longer. Apparently as a little nod to this detail,

523
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: Sarah Sanderson's hair constantly switches from curly to straight, and

524
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 1: I also believe it varies in length at different times

525
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 1: throughout the movie too. And this is just one of

526
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: several allusions to The Wizard of Oz, including the use

527
00:29:55,280 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: of the wicked Witches theme, you know the And this

528
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: sets me up perfectly for a crazy fact that I

529
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 1: learned the other day about the Wicked Witch of the

530
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: West from The Wizard of Oz, or rather the actors

531
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 1: who played her, Margaret Hamilton's I'm from Boston yesterday you yesterday.

532
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 1: As I was making my very first visit to Salem,

533
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: I started to wonder why people in Boston always said wicked.

534
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: You know, wicked, great wicked Whatever I was wondering, if

535
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 1: it had something to do with Salem and the Witch trials,

536
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: if it was just like a local nod to that

537
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: moment in our history. The truth is possibly very much

538
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: weirder of the stories to be believed. Apparently, the whole

539
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 1: wicked slang phenomenon was inspired by a Boston mayor's affair

540
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 1: with Margaret Hamilton's actors who played the Wicked Witch to

541
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: the West, and this is from an article in Boston

542
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: Magazine written by Matthew Reid Baker. He said, quote the

543
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: year zero was nineteen forty two and former Mayor Jay

544
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: Michael Curly was running for the U S House of Representatives,

545
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: but his campaign was crippled by his horrid affair with

546
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: Margaret Hamilton's, still hot from her role as the Wicked

547
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: Witch of the West and The Wizard of Oz, which

548
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: had come out three years earlier. Once the Rascal King

549
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: dumped his Hollywood mistress, he swept to victory thanks to

550
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:23,720
Speaker 1: an endorsement from Cardinal O'Connor, who exclaimed, our wicked man

551
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: has become wicked good and the rest is local slang history. Um.

552
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 1: The author of this piece does admit that there's an

553
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: excellent chance that this whole wicked witch of the West

554
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 1: connection is just local legend, and there's actually, in truth,

555
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: no consensus when it comes to the slang history of

556
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: wicked in New England. According to the Merrion Webster Dictionary,

557
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: the traditional use of wicked for bad dates back to

558
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: the thirteenth century. Perhaps is a bastardization of the Middle

559
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: English word wicca or the Old English wicca, which is

560
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: kind of a more familiar or word to me, which

561
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: you know, to me is a synonym for witchcraft. However,

562
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: there is a theory that Salem City officials started using

563
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: the word wicked as a trend to promote tourism in

564
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 1: their town, but obviously the use of that phrase went

565
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: through the roof after Google Hunting came out. I'm surprised

566
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: we haven't gotten you to bust out of Boston accent

567
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: on this yet. I can't do them because I'm from

568
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 1: like just far enough West that wasn't like a local

569
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 1: and my parents were both from Pennsylvania, so I never

570
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 1: really grew up surrounded by Boston accents too much. I mean,

571
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: I heard it was something that was like native to me.

572
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 1: M hmm. I bet you had two different accents. Huh

573
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: growing up you were like two different people. Oh yeah,

574
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: this is this is the form where the podcast just

575
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: evolves into a US reciting lines from The Depoted. Let's

576
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: get this thing back on the rails, folks. That's a

577
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 1: much longer podcast. We gotta do the Departed. That's like

578
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: the movie I think I saw the most in theaters.

579
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: Oh it's so perfect, it's so perfect. What's my favorite?

580
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: I mean, my favorite Boston in that is is marky

581
00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: Mark just doing them? Well? Yeah, maybe maybe maybe not?

582
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: Maybe you The best line of that movie is Leo

583
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: when he goes to his therapist house. You don't have cats?

584
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: I like that and it's all going, no, you know.

585
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: The best line of movie actually is is Alec Baldwin

586
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: saying I'm the guy who does his job. You must

587
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: be the guy. I use that, and it was Micky Mark.

588
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 1: Maybe you're right. I don't know anyway, now that we've

589
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: talked about a movie we actually care about. Uh, Kathy

590
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: y Gemi was reluctant to take this role because she

591
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,160
Speaker 1: had a fear of real life, which is Rosie O'Donnell,

592
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: who fears no one man of God or Bordal was

593
00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 1: originally hasked to play the role with Mary Sanderson, but

594
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 1: she turned it down because she didn't want to play

595
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,480
Speaker 1: a witch, so that part ultimately went to Kathy to Jimmy,

596
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: who had just broken Big and Sister Act along with

597
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 1: Whoopi Goldberg, but apparently Kathy didn't want to play a

598
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: witch either. At the twentieth anniversary screening panel, she told

599
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: fans she was afraid of offending real life, which is which, Yeah, sure,

600
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: that's tracks. She reportedly told the audience, I really believe

601
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: in white witches, as in witches who are use their

602
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 1: magic for good. It's not a whole race thing, even

603
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: though it even though it is Boston related, the whole

604
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: witches busting controversies. Um, I really believe in white witches,

605
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:42,920
Speaker 1: and I'm a witch and a lot of women I

606
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,240
Speaker 1: know who are very spiritually forward are witches. She said

607
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 1: she was worried that the Sanderson sister's obsession with killing

608
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 1: children would create a negative, harmful stereotype around which is which,

609
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: But they'll do that. Ship's kind of sailed though, Kathy Yeah.

610
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: Dijim apparently asked writers to include mentions of white witches

611
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 1: or good witches such as Alison, the character played by

612
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: Vanessa Shaw, who she saws human ish and funny. Is

613
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 1: that she talking about the actress the idea describing and funny.

614
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: The rare reason that Jimmy agreed to do the movie

615
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: was because she had been a massive bet Middler super

616
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,439
Speaker 1: fan for fifteen years, to the point where you said

617
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: you kept seeing the phrase borderline stalker attached to her name. Yes, simlistical, Yes,

618
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 1: so she was happy to tempt Black Magic Reprisal for

619
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: a chance to work alongside her hero. Cathy thought of

620
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: her character, Mary is half bloodhound, which is why she

621
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 1: has that sort of crooked mouth and barks occasionally. She said,

622
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 1: one day in rehearsal I just sort of went to

623
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 1: the side, she explained to Sci Fi Wire. We decided

624
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: she was like a bloodhound. So this sort of sniffy

625
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:57,240
Speaker 1: thing happened. But the but the wasn't the only sniffy

626
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,879
Speaker 1: thing that happened on this say, hey, I actually don't

627
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 1: know where any of these people drug abusers. Charles Rockett

628
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,879
Speaker 1: was in the cast. It can't be on Saturday Live

629
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: in the eighties. Yeah, yeah, it's true. But the most

630
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: seismic instance of alternate universe casting in this movie is that. Apparently,

631
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: Kenny Ortega wanted Leonardo DiCaprio for the part of Max Dennison.

632
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 1: Interview with Variety, Leonardo DiCaprio said that he was offered

633
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: quote more money than I ever dreamed of to play Max,

634
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,280
Speaker 1: but he turned down the role because he was holding

635
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: up for a chance to audition for What's Eating Gilbert Grape.

636
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 1: He said, quote, I don't know where the hell I

637
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 1: got the nerve. You live in an environment where you're

638
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: influenced by people telling you you make a lot of

639
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: money and strike while the iron's hot. But the move

640
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,240
Speaker 1: paid off, because Leo got an Academy Award and Golden

641
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 1: Globe nomination for his portrayal of Arnold Arnie Grape, making

642
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: him the seventh youngest nominee ever in that category at

643
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:55,439
Speaker 1: just nineteen years old. However, director Kenny Ortega remembers things

644
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: a little differently. In a two eighteen interview with D

645
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,840
Speaker 1: twenty three, he claims that Leo was never actually available

646
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 1: for this movie, but he met with Leo anyway at

647
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 1: the assistance of a couple of casting agents during pre production.

648
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,359
Speaker 1: But even so, everyone already knew that Leo would very

649
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: likely pass up this role because he was already up

650
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,720
Speaker 1: for parts of What's Eating Gilbert Grape and This Boy's Life,

651
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,879
Speaker 1: And sure enough, Ortega said that during the meeting, Leo

652
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 1: politely made it clear that his head was quote somewhere else,

653
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 1: and the part of Max ultimately went to al Marie Cats.

654
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 1: And after hocus Pocus, Cats briefly started in shows like

655
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,120
Speaker 1: General Hospital and Freaks and Geeks before we retired from

656
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: acting in two thousand two, and Cats recently spoke to

657
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: Entertainment Weekly about the hocus Pocus sequel. He said, quote,

658
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 1: people have been asking, and unfortunately I'm not in it.

659
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 1: I would have loved to have been involved. Thora Birch, however,

660
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,240
Speaker 1: was I guess offered to reprise her role as Danny

661
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: Dennison and hocus Pocus too, but she declined due to

662
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 1: quote scheduling conflicts, which I think is industry code for

663
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 1: I don't want to do it, but maybe wrong. Um.

664
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,879
Speaker 1: There's a frequent rumor that hocus Pocus is the first

665
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 1: Disney movie to use the word virgin, but that is

666
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: reportedly untrue. That honor belongs to nine one Dragon Slayer.

667
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 1: And speaking of there's a funny moment in the movie

668
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 1: when Max's father snaps at him watch your language. His

669
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,800
Speaker 1: dad in this movie is played by the aforementioned Charles Rocket,

670
00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: who is probably most famous for his tenure on SNL

671
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 1: when he dropped an unscripted f bomb live on air

672
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: during an episode in February. And I believe he was

673
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,919
Speaker 1: only on the show for one more episode. After that,

674
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,240
Speaker 1: NBC put the show on hiatus and retooled the cast

675
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 1: and kicked him off. This is just from my memory bank.

676
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 1: I think he killed himself by slitting his own throat

677
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 1: in a field on his own property in Connecticut in

678
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:59,760
Speaker 1: two thousand five. I'm a Cobb end of this, good lord.

679
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: Uh something we didn't have in our Hocus focus bingo card.

680
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 1: Well you didn't, Yeah, well so James Horner. Uh, enemy

681
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,279
Speaker 1: of the pod James Horner. I don't know. We're kind

682
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 1: of cool, but but that is not the only Titanic

683
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:21,799
Speaker 1: connection in this movie. And I knew you would find it. Yeah. Uh.

684
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 1: The song that Sarah Jessica Parker's character sings in the film,

685
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:27,920
Speaker 1: Come Little Children, which he uses to summon the Little Children,

686
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 1: was written by James Horner, who wrote My Heart Will

687
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: Go On and the score of Titanic just chock full

688
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: of penny whistles. That soundtrack was just like that was

689
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: like our generations. Frampton comes Live and I feel like

690
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 1: everyone I knew had that CD. Yeah. Uh. He was

691
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 1: nominated for eight Oscars over the course of his career,

692
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 1: winning two both for Titanic, but also earning nods for

693
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 1: Apaular Thirteen, Field of Dreams, Brave Heart, A Beautiful Mind,

694
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 1: the Avatar, and It's hilarious. He want up working with

695
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: James Cameron again on Titanic and again on Avatar because

696
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: ten years earlier he vowed never to work with Cameron

697
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:11,240
Speaker 1: again because the scoring sessions for Aliens were, in Horner's words,

698
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,359
Speaker 1: a nightmare, which is you can probably just plug that

699
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 1: into every single interaction with James Cameron. Anyone has ever

700
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 1: had not a guy famously well liked in Hollywood. Uh.

701
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 1: Mr Horner is uh fame over in his corner eating

702
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: some pumpkin pie. What am I doing that, right, little

703
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 1: Georgie something? What am I free associating here? Jordan's Jack Horner,

704
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:43,320
Speaker 1: Little James Horner sat in his corner self plagiarizing um

705
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: as some pumpkin and pie. Uh and plagiarizing from other people.

706
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 1: What I'm getting at here, folks, is that James Horner

707
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: has been accused of reusing both his previously written works

708
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: or lightly reworking pieces by classic composers for the material

709
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 1: he generates in him. His scores from Star Trek to

710
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 1: The Wrath of con and Star Trek three The Search

711
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 1: for Spock include excerpts from Prokofiev's Alexander Nevsky and Romeo

712
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 1: and Juliet. The action Austinado from Aliens is originally lifted

713
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: from the werewolf movie Wolfen, starring I want to say,

714
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 1: Albert Finney, and the film's main title is almost identical

715
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:26,439
Speaker 1: to Aram catch A Kourian's Gayanne Ballett Sweet Theodagio, which

716
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 1: was already used in an outer space context in two

717
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 1: thousand one Space Odyssey. That's just dumb. Don't steal classical

718
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,720
Speaker 1: music cues from Stanley Kubrick, who did more than perhaps

719
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: any other filmmaker to popularize classical scores in films in space,

720
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 1: in Space throughout the twentieth century. Good lord uh, And

721
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 1: then he would use it again in the score of

722
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:55,720
Speaker 1: Patriot Games. Oh, James Horner, you Rube Field of Dreams

723
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 1: includes cues from the Saturday Night Waltz portion of Aaron

724
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,719
Speaker 1: Copeland's Ballet Rodeo and Copeland score from Our Town. In

725
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,360
Speaker 1: issue of Film Score Monthly, an editorial review of Titanic

726
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:11,280
Speaker 1: said Horner was skilled in the adaptation of existing music

727
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,920
Speaker 1: into films with just enough variation to avoid legal troubles.

728
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: But that is not strictly true. He did indeed get

729
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 1: in trouble for his main theme for Honey, I Shrunk

730
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: the Kid. This is which incorporates cues from the score

731
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 1: by Nino Rota from Federico Fellini three film record A

732
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 1: Record I'm a Chord of Thing, and Raymond Scott's Peace Powerhouse,

733
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: regularly heard in the Loony Tunes God. This led to

734
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 1: Raymond Scott's estate to threaten a lawsuit against Disney, who

735
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,879
Speaker 1: paid an undisclosed settlement out of court. However, history has

736
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:50,800
Speaker 1: taken a kinder view of James Horner following his Titanic

737
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 1: mega success and his death in a single occupant plane

738
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 1: crash in the Los Padres National Forest. R I P.

739
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: James Horner, You're plagiarizing in Heaven now kisses me off.

740
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,760
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I good Lord, I know good Oars borrow

741
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:16,480
Speaker 1: graad oars steel but like come on, come On. And

742
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: on the topic of reusing music, a little bit in

743
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: fact about hocus Pocus was that there was a theme

744
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 1: song written for it by the Swedish pop duo rock Set,

745
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 1: who had number ones in the late eighties with songs

746
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:30,720
Speaker 1: like it Must Have Been Love Yeah, that song rules

747
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:35,080
Speaker 1: and Listen to Your Heart which rules less Um. They

748
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:38,720
Speaker 1: wrote a song called Almost Unreal, which is this great

749
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:42,320
Speaker 1: cynthi pop banger that references hocus Pocus a number of times,

750
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,719
Speaker 1: but ultimately the producers decided it wasn't right for a

751
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 1: family friendly witch movie and decided to cut it from

752
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 1: the film. But since the song was commissioned for Disney

753
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,880
Speaker 1: and they obviously owned the rights, the company decided to

754
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 1: recycle it for another one of their movies, Super Mario

755
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: Brothers No Famously Misbegotten Horrendous Box Office Bomb. And the

756
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: band rock Set were apparently pretty pissed about this switch,

757
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 1: but then again, they weren't exactly huge fans of the

758
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 1: song in the first place. In the booklet for the

759
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: two thousand six release a collection of rock Set hits

760
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: their twenty greatest songs, one of the band made set

761
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: of this song not one of our most inspired moments,

762
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,319
Speaker 1: so it's probably good it wound up in a not

763
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 1: very inspired film, saying that in your own greatest hits,

764
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 1: how somebody wasn't in charge of the track listing there.

765
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 1: The shoot for Hocus Focus began on October twelve, and

766
00:44:41,239 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 1: though the film's obviously set in the town of Salem,

767
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 1: most of it was done on a back lot in Burbank, California,

768
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 1: which will talk more about in the moment. But they

769
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 1: did do two weeks of shooting on location in Salem

770
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 1: and then the nearby town of marble Head. That's where

771
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 1: they did the scenes for the human Thackeray Binks running

772
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 1: through the woods. Among many exteriors the high s cool

773
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 1: in the film, Jacob Bailey High was actually Phillips Elementary School,

774
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: which was unused at the time. I think I might

775
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: have shot inside as well as exteriors. And now that's

776
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,359
Speaker 1: an apartment complex, so if you're a Hocus Pocus super

777
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: fan looking for a place to live, check it out.

778
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 1: You can live in the school from hocus Pocus. The

779
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: Dennison's family home is a sweet eighteen seventies Victorians on

780
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: Ocean Avenue, which has become a popular tourist attraction, and

781
00:45:23,080 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: the Halloween party in the film takes place in the

782
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 1: supposed Old Town Hall, which is actually the Salem Museum

783
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 1: on Derby Square. But most interesting to me is the

784
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 1: house belonging to the character Allison. The exterior was shot

785
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,680
Speaker 1: at the Ropes Mansion on Essex Street in Salem, which

786
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 1: is open to the public and operated by the Peabody

787
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,360
Speaker 1: Essex Museum. According the website for it, the house was

788
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: built in seventeen twenty seven in Georgian style, but the

789
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 1: interiors were shot at a famous mansion in Altadena, California,

790
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 1: known as the Crank House, named for its former owner,

791
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 1: businessman James F. Crank. And this is cool because the

792
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:04,000
Speaker 1: interiors were used not only for hocus Pocus, but also

793
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:06,399
Speaker 1: in the movie Matilda, where it was used for Miss

794
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 1: trunch Bull's house and also screamed to during the scene

795
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:13,520
Speaker 1: where CC was played by Sarah Michelle Gellar receives her

796
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,800
Speaker 1: final fatal phone call, and it was also used in

797
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 1: Catcher If You Can when Leonardo DiCaprio celebrated his engagement

798
00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 1: to any Adams in New Orleans. I think, I think

799
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 1: that was when he was in New Orleans in that movie.

800
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: If you can, Oh, it's actually really I didn't see

801
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 1: it ever until relatively recently, like maybe five years ago,

802
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 1: and it's it's not one of those ones that you

803
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:40,360
Speaker 1: had to see like at a certain time to enjoy it.

804
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 1: Like it's it's really good. Um. Yeah, it's up there

805
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,799
Speaker 1: with like The Sting in terms of just like that

806
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: kind of fun. I meanotus, the Sting is a lot better.

807
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 1: But yeah, just as unrelated aside, I'd assume that the

808
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 1: cemetery scenes in this movie were shot on location, but

809
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 1: apparently they were filmed on the largest sound stage at

810
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:05,320
Speaker 1: the Walt Disney Studios, and real birch and elm trees

811
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:07,759
Speaker 1: from the East Coast were uprooted and moved to the

812
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: set to give it that spooky Salem vibe. Well, as

813
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 1: we said, aside from some location shots in Salem, the

814
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 1: majority of hocus Pocus was filmed in California. Exteriors were

815
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: mostly done at the Warner Brothers Ranch and Burbank, which

816
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:25,280
Speaker 1: is basically an open air movie set museum. The neighborhood

817
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:26,839
Speaker 1: where the kids walk in the movie is known as

818
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 1: Blondie Street after the comic strip Blondie, which was then

819
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 1: turned into an early television sitcom. This little U shaped

820
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 1: street features house facades that have appeared in I Dream

821
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 1: of Genie, The Donna Reed Show, The Partridge Family, and

822
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: appropriately enough for this episode, Bewitched, as well as more

823
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 1: modern stuff like Young Sheldon, Son of a Bitching, Young Shaldon,

824
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:57,320
Speaker 1: Enemy of the Pod, Young Sheldon, The Apocalypse Now looking

825
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: through the Venetian Blinds, Young Shell Children. They also did

826
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 1: the Three Stooges, the original Batman and Superman Cereals, Lethal Weapon,

827
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 1: Dennis the Menace, but one house in particular, which appears

828
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 1: in the background when the kids are prematurely celebrating their

829
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: defeat of the Sanderson sisters after locking them in the kiln.

830
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:20,320
Speaker 1: These kids can be seen talking in front of the house.

831
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: As they walk to the park, Max stops to talk

832
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: to beings the cat outside of this house too. This

833
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: house has a wrought iron fence and blue shutters. This

834
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 1: house previously used as the Griswolds House in National Lampoon's

835
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:37,320
Speaker 1: Christmas Vacation, but just a few years after hocus Pocus

836
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 1: was used as the Burnham family home in American Beauty.

837
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 1: The house with the red door and Thora Burch's character

838
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 1: lives there in American Beauty. So six years earlier in

839
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:51,479
Speaker 1: Hocus Pocus, Thora Birch is visiting her future movie home

840
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 1: and then, Uh, you said, you think it's also in WandaVision. Yeah,

841
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:59,720
Speaker 1: I think it's um the home in wand Division, the division.

842
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:04,720
Speaker 1: I love this stuff so much. I'm good. I'm happy

843
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 1: you do. I mean it's just the way that they

844
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 1: reused the same like eight houses for dozens and dozens

845
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:13,359
Speaker 1: of movies and TV shows. Like, for example, I mean

846
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 1: that that the home in Bewitch where Samantha and Darren

847
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: Stevens lived during the whole run of The which it's

848
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: the same house that in a dream of Genie, Larry

849
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: Hagman's boss Dr Bellows lives. It's just like they only

850
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 1: have like a couple of houses. They all just swap out,

851
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: change the you know, the aluminum signing on the front,

852
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 1: and call a day. Well, as with all things in Hollywood,

853
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 1: it ends tragically. Uh. Warner Brothers announced a massive plan

854
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:44,280
Speaker 1: to overhaul this movie ranch, with a five hundred million

855
00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 1: dollar redevelopment plan to build sixteen sound stages. This means

856
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 1: that this beloved filming location will be no more and

857
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:54,800
Speaker 1: these famous facades will either be destroyed or God willing,

858
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 1: just moved. Um, you said that you think they're they're

859
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: being kept. The thing that I think that they're keeping

860
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 1: is the park square that is used in the opening

861
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 1: of the TV show Friends. Oh well, thank god, And

862
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:16,880
Speaker 1: this leads us to the next topic. Uh. Yes, That

863
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: set also makes an appearance in Hocus Pocus. Perhaps the

864
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:23,040
Speaker 1: most storage set piece in this movie was missed by

865
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 1: most viewers for years. It was only recently that Internet

866
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,719
Speaker 1: Salutes took a close look at a park fountain that

867
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 1: appeared in the scene where Max, Danny Allison, and Factory

868
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,879
Speaker 1: Banks are celebrating the demise of the Sanderson sisters, and

869
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 1: fans determined that this is the very same fountain from

870
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:45,840
Speaker 1: the opening credits of the TV show Friends. Right, you

871
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 1: do you do the thing? Uh? The fountain is located

872
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:52,800
Speaker 1: at the Warner Brothers studio in Burbank and has appeared

873
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 1: in all sorts of TV shows and movies dating back

874
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 1: to the sixties. It was used in Friends because it

875
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 1: looks very similar to the Cherry Hill fountain and Center

876
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 1: or Park. The fountain was moved from the Warner Brothers

877
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 1: ranch to the main studio lot earlier this year to

878
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 1: preserve it, where it was added to the Warner Brothers

879
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 1: Studio Tour in Hollywood, which means you can see it

880
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 1: and pose for photos with it, and there are still

881
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 1: many more traces of classic movies and shows in hocus focus.

882
00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 1: This was a film that had originally been conceived as

883
00:51:21,200 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 1: a made for TV movie, so the budget was fairly tight,

884
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 1: and one place where they cut corners was the costume budget.

885
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 1: Specifically for the scene but they filmed the town's Halloween

886
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:33,239
Speaker 1: party and for the costumes worn by the townspeople, the

887
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 1: producers just dipped into the Disney costume vault and pulled

888
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:39,280
Speaker 1: out old outfits that have been worn in prior films.

889
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 1: And this was a god cent because, as customer Mary

890
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 1: Vault told Glamour in, they had literally run out of

891
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 1: money when it came to shooting this scene, and she said, fortunately,

892
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 1: I had access to the Walt Disney costume department and

893
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 1: they had saved clothes from all the movies they've done,

894
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 1: so I went through there and took everything that looked

895
00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 1: like a costume in some movie. They must have had

896
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 1: these three girls and red sequin dresses so I said,

897
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 1: let's get that. We'll ask three women to play the supremes,

898
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,320
Speaker 1: and if you look closely, you'll see that their outfits

899
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: in the background that we're used in Trawn the Old

900
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 1: Treasure Island with Robert Newton, the sword and the rose

901
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 1: which I don't know that one, and even costumes from

902
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 1: Bette Midler's amy nominated TV version of the stage musical Gypsy,

903
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 1: which is the biopic of burlesque dancer Gypsy Rose Lee.

904
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 1: And there's a little nod to it in hocus Pocus.

905
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 1: When Winniford, played by Bette Midler takes the stage perform

906
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 1: she says, Hello, Salem, my name's Winniford. What's yours? And

907
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:37,240
Speaker 1: that's a very famous line in Gypsy, when Bitte Midler's

908
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 1: character goes on stage says, Hello, everybody, my name is

909
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:45,359
Speaker 1: Rose what's yours. I only saw the the Natalie Wood

910
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 1: version of Gypsy, but I think she does it in

911
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 1: the middle of let me entertain you. Your mom is

912
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 1: a musical person, you know any of the Gypsy stuff?

913
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 1: He tunes from Gypsy? Bette Midler is a huge blind

914
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 1: spot for me. I don't know. I don't know any

915
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:02,280
Speaker 1: of the I don't know Gypsy. I don't know beaches.

916
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 1: I don't know any beaches. It's bum or sad one. Anyway, Apparently,

917
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:10,400
Speaker 1: back in the day used to be able to actually

918
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 1: rent the Witch's costumes from hocus Pocus. The studio would

919
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:17,839
Speaker 1: just rent out their costumes from their costume vault. At

920
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:21,160
Speaker 1: least that's what costomer Mary Vaught says in this Glamor piece. Now,

921
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 1: she says, studios keep everything. They have their archives and

922
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 1: keep absolutely everything. But at that time it was different.

923
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 1: I think the real hocus Pocus costumes, people would just

924
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 1: rent them out all the time so they could get

925
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 1: money out of them. But then when the movie got

926
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 1: more popular, that stopped. I've seen photos of the real

927
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 1: costumes and they actually look like they're in pretty good

928
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 1: shape even though they were rented out for years. That's cool.

929
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,880
Speaker 1: H It's like how in UM. I forgot which studio,

930
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 1: But sometime in the seventies I think it was MGM.

931
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:52,239
Speaker 1: They just I think MGM was like either looking to

932
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:57,919
Speaker 1: downsize its actual facility and not store all of their

933
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 1: movie props and stuff, or or they just wanted to

934
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 1: make some money and wanted to sell some stuff off

935
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 1: and get some cash. I want to say it was

936
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy they were selling Dorothy's ruby slippers and

937
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:11,279
Speaker 1: just all of this I think stuff gone with the

938
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 1: wind and all this stuff. It's like, you know, like

939
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 1: when hotels go out of business, like that kind of

940
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 1: thing where they just would She's let people in. Yeah,

941
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 1: I mean there's like a really look it up. I

942
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:24,360
Speaker 1: think this whole Wikipedia page about like the nineteen seventy

943
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:29,400
Speaker 1: MGM sale and they sold you know, up to that point,

944
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:33,359
Speaker 1: what nineteen seventy, so say, fifty years of the most

945
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:37,360
Speaker 1: amazing historic movie memorabilia ever. This is the biggest. It

946
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:41,479
Speaker 1: belongs in the museum segment I've ever had on this show. Yeah,

947
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:46,080
Speaker 1: it's pretty crazy. We're going to take a quick break,

948
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:48,799
Speaker 1: but we'll be right back with more too much information

949
00:54:48,840 --> 00:55:01,880
Speaker 1: in just a moment. So well, you can't actually wear

950
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:05,760
Speaker 1: the same outfits worn by the Sanderson's sisters in Hocus Pocus.

951
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:12,879
Speaker 1: You can stay in their house sort of fine print asterix. Uh,

952
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 1: you know, consult local dealer for details. Their cottage has

953
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:20,840
Speaker 1: recently been recreated in the town of Danvers, Massachusetts, about

954
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes away from Salem, as part of the celebration

955
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:27,520
Speaker 1: for the Hocus Pocus sequel this year, and Airbnb ran

956
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:30,319
Speaker 1: a competition where two guests could stay there for just

957
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 1: one night for only thirty one dollars all of us.

958
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 1: I don't really understand how all this works economically. I'm

959
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 1: guessing was all just a promo for the film, and

960
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 1: I think the cottage is independently owned and operated. Um.

961
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 1: The big catch is that there's not much in the

962
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 1: way of accommodations. There's an outhouse in place of a bathroom,

963
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:51,360
Speaker 1: there's no kitchen, there's no TV, there's no air conditioning.

964
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:53,880
Speaker 1: But the lucky guests who did manage to make a

965
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:57,440
Speaker 1: reservation for this, I think one might only event uh

966
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:00,359
Speaker 1: we'll see some uh. I guess this already happened. Were

967
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:03,359
Speaker 1: able to see some of the more memorable details from

968
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:06,799
Speaker 1: the film, including the spell book, the famous cauldron, a

969
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:10,000
Speaker 1: few brooms for flying, and a black cat who looks

970
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 1: quite a bit like Thackeray Banks. And now we must

971
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:18,719
Speaker 1: come to Thackeray Banks. This movie was made when c

972
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:20,600
Speaker 1: g I was still in its infancy, so this was

973
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 1: a difficult effect to pull off. The talking cat. It

974
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:26,680
Speaker 1: was created with a mix of practical effects and very

975
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 1: rough and ready computer effects. It involved nine, yes nine

976
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:34,360
Speaker 1: and not for a bit, black cats plus an animatronic

977
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:37,719
Speaker 1: robot cat. The nine cats were basically the filmmaker's way

978
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:40,720
Speaker 1: of hedging their bets, because you see, if you teach

979
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 1: one cat every single trick that you might use in

980
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 1: a movie, you're screwed if the cat is having a

981
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:47,919
Speaker 1: bad day and refuses to cooperate, which, as anyone would

982
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:52,839
Speaker 1: tell you, he's frequently. So Instead, animal handlers will train

983
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:56,359
Speaker 1: multiple cats to do different tasks and tricks. Vanessa Shaw,

984
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:58,879
Speaker 1: who played Alison Watts, later said there was a whole

985
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:01,920
Speaker 1: wall of cats. They all did a different thing. One

986
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 1: would bat you, one would jump on you, one would sleep,

987
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:06,759
Speaker 1: one would cuttle with you. The fact that there were

988
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,440
Speaker 1: nine cats was purely a coincidence and not a reference

989
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:12,840
Speaker 1: to the old cats having nine lives wives tale. For

990
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 1: scenes where Binks speaks, filmmakers either used a real cat

991
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:18,360
Speaker 1: and then replaced its head with a primitive c g

992
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 1: I version, or they would use one of six animatronic

993
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:23,920
Speaker 1: cats to get the job done. At least one of

994
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 1: these animatronics found second life on the production of Sabrina

995
00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 1: the Teenage, which starring Wilson Joan Hart between and two

996
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:38,040
Speaker 1: thousand three for the part of the wise cracking Feline Salem.

997
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 1: The kids were annoyed with all the cats because each

998
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 1: time a new one was brought onto the set, they'd

999
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 1: have to become friendly with it, which if you spend

1000
00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:48,560
Speaker 1: any time around cats at all, you know is a

1001
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 1: herculean task because cats are at the devil. They would

1002
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 1: have to earn these the new cats trust using a

1003
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:57,360
Speaker 1: combination of treats and a buzzer, and it was a

1004
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 1: whole thing. I feel like we say this in every episode,

1005
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 1: as TBC Fields once said, never work with children or animals.

1006
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:10,240
Speaker 1: Continuing down, Thackeray Binks Lane Uh. In The Lord of

1007
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 1: the Movie, he's actually a seventeenth century man who was

1008
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 1: turned into a cat as punishment for insulting Winnifred Sanderson.

1009
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 1: The human form of the characters played by actor Sean Murray,

1010
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 1: who later went on to star in The Crime Procedural

1011
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:26,040
Speaker 1: and c I S. But they didn't use Murray's actual voice.

1012
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 1: After he filmed his part, producers decided that his voice

1013
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:32,880
Speaker 1: sounded too modern to convincingly becoming from a seventeenth century boy,

1014
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:35,160
Speaker 1: so they call it in. An eighteen year old actor

1015
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:38,480
Speaker 1: and vocal performer named Jason Marston, who is something of

1016
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: an undercover m v P when it comes to beloved

1017
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:44,840
Speaker 1: nineties children properties. In fact, he's sort of just he's all.

1018
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 1: He's all over the T G I F lineup. He

1019
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 1: plays Eric Matthews, best friend of Boy Meets World. That's

1020
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:53,800
Speaker 1: the older brother of Corey h He plays DJ's rich

1021
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 1: boyfriend on Full House, the one who hires Frankie Valley

1022
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 1: to sing for her, and JT's friend on Step by Step.

1023
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 1: He also voiced Goofy's son Max in a Goofy movie.

1024
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:05,520
Speaker 1: That's a hell of a lineup right there. I just

1025
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 1: want to pause and reflect on that he had a

1026
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 1: good couple of years. He had a good run, a

1027
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:18,200
Speaker 1: good spring when I was seventeen. Uh. Marston actually hung

1028
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 1: out on the set while it was filming because he

1029
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 1: was working on a television show that was shooting nearby.

1030
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 1: He was not cast with the voice of Banks till

1031
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 1: after the film had wrapped, and that's when they called

1032
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 1: him in to do two or three days of dialogue dubbing.

1033
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:31,280
Speaker 1: He told The Daily Beast they thought it would be

1034
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 1: more realistic since the Witch has come from a different

1035
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 1: time period. For Banks to have an affected accent. Unfortunately,

1036
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:39,800
Speaker 1: since they had shot the thing already, Marston had to

1037
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:42,920
Speaker 1: lip sync over the previous guy's performance, both for the

1038
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 1: live action stuff as well as for the stuff they

1039
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:48,320
Speaker 1: animated for the cat. As you can imagine, this was

1040
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 1: something of a chore. Marson recalled the animator in charge

1041
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 1: of Banks was meticulous, wonderful euphemism there. He said, I'll

1042
00:59:57,400 --> 00:59:59,840
Speaker 1: never forget. There were times when I'm like, oh, I landed.

1043
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:03,040
Speaker 1: He's like, no, you were off half a frame. H

1044
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 1: He was so nitpicky about it in the best way.

1045
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:09,120
Speaker 1: The frustrating part was like, I wish this is nothing

1046
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:11,000
Speaker 1: against Sean. I mean, this is the way it was,

1047
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 1: But I wish I would have been able to use

1048
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 1: my own rhythms because I had to actually match what

1049
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:17,920
Speaker 1: was already there. So that's enough about cats. Now we

1050
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:20,680
Speaker 1: have to give equal time to dogs. This is see

1051
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 1: in the movie where the Sanders and sisters meet a

1052
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 1: man dressed up as the Devil for Halloween, and hilariously

1053
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:28,320
Speaker 1: they believe him to be the real Devil and are

1054
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 1: pumped at the opportunity to meet the Master. They go

1055
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 1: to a suburban home, only to be chased out by

1056
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:37,360
Speaker 1: his dog with red bat wings satan wings. I don't

1057
01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 1: really know what he's supposed to be dressed as anyway.

1058
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:42,880
Speaker 1: That dog is Kathiny Jimmy's real life dog, who is

1059
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 1: named al Finney Big Albert Finney Fan. I don't I

1060
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:50,600
Speaker 1: don't know. The dog also made a cameo in Sister

1061
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:53,440
Speaker 1: Act as well, and the so called devil and his

1062
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:56,440
Speaker 1: wife in this movie are probably familiar to pop culture buffs.

1063
01:00:56,600 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 1: It's Gary Marshall who was famous for the as the

1064
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 1: TV exam I could even created Happy Days, Laverne and

1065
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 1: Shirley and Mark and Mindy, before branching out into directing

1066
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:09,040
Speaker 1: stuff like Pretty Woman, Runaway Bride, The Princess Diaries, Overboard

1067
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:11,760
Speaker 1: with Goldie Hawn and Kurt Russell, and the tear jerker

1068
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:15,480
Speaker 1: Beaches with Bett Mitler, which is probably how he wound

1069
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:18,760
Speaker 1: up in here. He also did small acting parts, including

1070
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:21,320
Speaker 1: the baseball team owner in A League of Their Own,

1071
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:26,000
Speaker 1: which was directed by his sister, Penny Marshall, who plays

1072
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:32,640
Speaker 1: his wife in this movie. Mm hmm. She famously played

1073
01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:37,120
Speaker 1: Laverne and Laverne and Shirley and produced the movie version

1074
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:39,640
Speaker 1: of Bewitched in two thousand five, so I don't know,

1075
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:42,240
Speaker 1: a nice little bit of synergy there, but uh yeah,

1076
01:01:42,440 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 1: she's married to her brother in uh hocus Pocus, which

1077
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 1: is weird. Um. I remember when I was in high

1078
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:53,720
Speaker 1: school and I was we did Greece for Drama Society,

1079
01:01:54,080 --> 01:01:56,600
Speaker 1: and the director cast one of my friends to play

1080
01:01:56,720 --> 01:02:00,400
Speaker 1: one of the t birds and he acts Dent Lee.

1081
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:04,160
Speaker 1: So he says, cast this guy's sister to play his

1082
01:02:04,240 --> 01:02:07,320
Speaker 1: corresponding pink lady, because you know, all the tea bers

1083
01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 1: have names like Duffy, Duty, Sonny, all like no one

1084
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:13,400
Speaker 1: knows like who they are. And then all of a sudden,

1085
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:15,320
Speaker 1: on the first day when everybody showed up, he realized

1086
01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:18,400
Speaker 1: that his sister was playing his love interest and they

1087
01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:23,960
Speaker 1: swapped parts pretty quickly. That tracks well. Incest is gross,

1088
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:26,360
Speaker 1: but you know what else is gross? Moths flying out

1089
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:30,080
Speaker 1: of your mouth. There's a scene in the movie where

1090
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 1: the character Billy Butcherson has moths fly out of his mouth.

1091
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:35,600
Speaker 1: Seeing how this is before the age of c g I,

1092
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:36,880
Speaker 1: they had to figure out a way to do this

1093
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:40,400
Speaker 1: with practical effects, which meant that he had moths in

1094
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:43,720
Speaker 1: his mouth. Character of Billy Butcherson is played by the

1095
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 1: famous character actor Doug Jones, who is by virtue of

1096
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 1: being tall and skinny, in almost every monster suit you

1097
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:56,840
Speaker 1: can imagine. Um. He especially in stuff directed by Garland Dotro.

1098
01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 1: He is the pale man, the guy with the who

1099
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:04,080
Speaker 1: puts his hands in his eyes in um the most

1100
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:07,600
Speaker 1: horrifying sequence in Pan's Labyrinth. He's the fish like Abe

1101
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:12,680
Speaker 1: Sapien in Hellboy and its sequel, and basically reprises the

1102
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:15,960
Speaker 1: character in a completely different film, Shape of Water, a

1103
01:03:16,080 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 1: Best Picture winner The Shape of Water. Uh. He's the

1104
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,840
Speaker 1: silver surfer in Fantastic four movie. He's one of the

1105
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:26,480
Speaker 1: creepy gentleman and Buffy he's an alien and falling skies.

1106
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:31,360
Speaker 1: His working relationship with Gambled Detorto dates back to Mimic.

1107
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 1: You ever here about this movie, the movie where they

1108
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:39,440
Speaker 1: create humanoid cockroaches. Yeah, it's gross. Doug Jones plays one

1109
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:44,440
Speaker 1: of them down. Yeah. Um. But hocus Pocus is one

1110
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:47,280
Speaker 1: of his first major roles, and he actually tweaked his

1111
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 1: dialogue a little bit. When Billy is re animated and

1112
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:52,920
Speaker 1: calls Winifred a wench. The line was initially supposed to

1113
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:55,280
Speaker 1: be bitch, but Doug Jones thought that was a little

1114
01:03:55,360 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 1: much for Disney movie and made the edit. He seems

1115
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:00,520
Speaker 1: like a lovely kind of man, and in no way

1116
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:03,280
Speaker 1: do we wish that he had moths shoved in his mouth,

1117
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:07,280
Speaker 1: but such was his lot. You can't fight City Hall,

1118
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:13,880
Speaker 1: you can't fight moths. Uh. Interview with Buddy Disgusting. Makeup

1119
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:16,800
Speaker 1: and special effects designer Tony Gardner said that Jones wore

1120
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:21,520
Speaker 1: a mouth rig phrasing which can be best to be

1121
01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:25,240
Speaker 1: described as a latex pocket attached to denture's that blocked

1122
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:29,000
Speaker 1: off Jones's throat, basically a dental damn. This was so

1123
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:32,200
Speaker 1: that he wouldn't swallow them, the moths, and that they

1124
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 1: wouldn't get so wet that they couldn't then fly out. God,

1125
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:40,600
Speaker 1: that's gross anyway. At the appointed time, a trainer would

1126
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:43,160
Speaker 1: place the moths in the dental damn pocket with a

1127
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 1: pair of tweezers, under supervision from a Humane Society rap. Unfortunately,

1128
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:50,720
Speaker 1: it took them several takes to nail that shot, which

1129
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:53,440
Speaker 1: meant poor Doug Jones just had a whole afternoon of

1130
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:59,080
Speaker 1: moth mouth. Sorry, Ali, we're gonna get the mothman prophecies

1131
01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:02,200
Speaker 1: for you soon, but it settle for Stay tuned for

1132
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:05,320
Speaker 1: my my full length, My dinner with Andre Parody, that's

1133
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:11,760
Speaker 1: just my dinner with moth mouth. Oh well, as you

1134
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:14,040
Speaker 1: can gather considering the fact that they made this man

1135
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:17,200
Speaker 1: actually have moths in his mouth. Practical effects were very

1136
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:19,000
Speaker 1: much the name of the game. During the production of

1137
01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:22,280
Speaker 1: hocus Pocus, they really wanted everything to be done for real,

1138
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:24,600
Speaker 1: and this was down to the jack O lanterns used

1139
01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:27,560
Speaker 1: in the movie, which, as you can imagine jack o lanterns,

1140
01:05:27,680 --> 01:05:30,640
Speaker 1: pumpkins that have been carved out sitting under hot lights

1141
01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:35,160
Speaker 1: for days, maybe even weeks at a time started to smell,

1142
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:39,760
Speaker 1: and I guess after not very long, the set started

1143
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:44,120
Speaker 1: smell disgusting. Hocus Pocus set decorator Rosemary Brandenburg later said

1144
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:47,480
Speaker 1: we vowed we wouldn't use any store bought Halloween decorations,

1145
01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:51,480
Speaker 1: so we made everything from scratch, from carved pumpkins to scarecrows,

1146
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:53,760
Speaker 1: which is ghosts, you name it. It was a blast.

1147
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:56,400
Speaker 1: There was a layered quality to hocus Pocus that I

1148
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:59,560
Speaker 1: continue to strive for my work. But she also added

1149
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 1: that her most visceral memory of the sets was the

1150
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:06,640
Speaker 1: overwhelming smell of rotting pumpkins. Sara Jessica Par's main memory

1151
01:06:06,640 --> 01:06:09,120
Speaker 1: from the production was a little less disgusting. In fact,

1152
01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:12,480
Speaker 1: it's kind of whimsical. In an interview with Stephen Colbert

1153
01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:14,800
Speaker 1: in two thousand eighteen, she admitted that she doesn't have

1154
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:18,120
Speaker 1: very many memories of filming hoaxux Pocus, but she loved

1155
01:06:18,200 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 1: flying during the broom sequences. In actually loved it so

1156
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:23,400
Speaker 1: much that she would hang out in the flying rig

1157
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 1: in between breaks on the set. Once again, this was

1158
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:29,800
Speaker 1: just a master class and practical effects. There was a

1159
01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:32,440
Speaker 1: giant grid mounted to the ceiling of the sound stage

1160
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:35,400
Speaker 1: that was capable of flying the Sanders and sisters anywhere

1161
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:38,120
Speaker 1: on the stage that they wanted at any angle, and

1162
01:06:38,200 --> 01:06:40,880
Speaker 1: these actors would be suspended something like thirty feet off

1163
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:44,240
Speaker 1: the ground, which sounds terrifying to me, But Sarah Jessica

1164
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:47,320
Speaker 1: Parker loved it. As she told Colbert, they'd call cut,

1165
01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:49,280
Speaker 1: and maybe they go to lunch or change the lens,

1166
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:51,600
Speaker 1: and I would just stay up there. I realized, like

1167
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:53,959
Speaker 1: I fit an entire New York Times up the back

1168
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:57,520
Speaker 1: of the corset, and I found that the harness was comfortable,

1169
01:06:57,680 --> 01:06:59,080
Speaker 1: So I would just sit up there and read the

1170
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:01,680
Speaker 1: Times while people took their brakes or change the camera

1171
01:07:01,760 --> 01:07:05,120
Speaker 1: or sometimes want to lunch. Honestly, this kind of sounds

1172
01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:08,200
Speaker 1: like exactly what I would imagine Sarah Jisco Parker would

1173
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:10,120
Speaker 1: have done on the set of hocus Pocus. I mean,

1174
01:07:10,480 --> 01:07:14,120
Speaker 1: perfect training for sex in the city. Another of my

1175
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:17,680
Speaker 1: favorite practical effects from hocus Pocus is when they turned

1176
01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:20,040
Speaker 1: Bette Midler's character to stone at the end of the

1177
01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:24,000
Speaker 1: movie spoilers uh c g. I was still in its

1178
01:07:24,000 --> 01:07:27,000
Speaker 1: infancy again, and painting her like a living statue would

1179
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:30,440
Speaker 1: have looked like something you would see in Washington Square

1180
01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:34,240
Speaker 1: park Um kind of corny. So instead, the production team

1181
01:07:34,280 --> 01:07:38,200
Speaker 1: went with seven different statues which showed the progression of

1182
01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:41,440
Speaker 1: the flesh and blood Winnifred Sanderson or whatever, which is

1183
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:44,200
Speaker 1: Are they flesh and blood? I guess they are turning

1184
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:47,160
Speaker 1: to stone? So these statues were all swapped out as

1185
01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:50,720
Speaker 1: the scene progressed, um and in our it belongs in

1186
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:53,240
Speaker 1: a museum segment for this episode. One of these statues

1187
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:57,720
Speaker 1: currently resides in the planet Hollywood in Orlando, Florida, along

1188
01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:01,520
Speaker 1: with the fleshy spell book. Product was well not this

1189
01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:04,000
Speaker 1: part isn't sad, This part was probably quite happy. Production

1190
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 1: was completed on February, which meant no more moths in

1191
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 1: a young Doug Jones's mouth. I just can't it's mouth. Um.

1192
01:08:18,160 --> 01:08:21,280
Speaker 1: But Disney fumbled so close to the end zone. Rather

1193
01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:24,639
Speaker 1: than released the movie during Halloween because it's a Halloween movie,

1194
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:28,599
Speaker 1: they opted to release it wide Midsummer, famously the most

1195
01:08:28,640 --> 01:08:33,720
Speaker 1: Halloweeny of times, July. The idea was that they would

1196
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:35,960
Speaker 1: take advantage of all the kids out on summer vacation

1197
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:40,320
Speaker 1: and avoid competition with other Halloween centric releases, specifically Disney's

1198
01:08:40,360 --> 01:08:42,679
Speaker 1: own Night Number four Christmas, which is not a bad

1199
01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:46,519
Speaker 1: idea except for the fact that Summer of nine also

1200
01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:49,479
Speaker 1: featured some movies you may have heard of, like Rookie

1201
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:53,960
Speaker 1: of the Year, Free Willie, Dennis The Menace, a reissue

1202
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:56,479
Speaker 1: of Snow White and the Seven Dwarves, and a small

1203
01:08:56,520 --> 01:09:00,599
Speaker 1: independent movie that would go on to have no impact

1204
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:04,200
Speaker 1: on the wider film industry at large. Jordan, have you

1205
01:09:04,200 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 1: heard of this one? Jurassic Jurassic Park? Am I saying

1206
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:12,799
Speaker 1: that right? Those idiots debuted their little Witch movie against

1207
01:09:12,840 --> 01:09:17,679
Speaker 1: Jurassic Park instead of putting out October Spielberg's Jurassic Park.

1208
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:22,519
Speaker 1: Still that probably scheduled it against it on purpose. It's

1209
01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:27,400
Speaker 1: crushed them like the Moth on the Like a Moth

1210
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:31,880
Speaker 1: and Doug Jones Mohler's The film debut in fourth place, which,

1211
01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:35,479
Speaker 1: honestly pretty good, pretty respectable considering everything we just rattled off.

1212
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:39,320
Speaker 1: Earned a reported thirty nine five mill in its initial

1213
01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:42,439
Speaker 1: theatrical run against the twenty eight million budget, so made

1214
01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:46,160
Speaker 1: its money back. But yeah, um, there are some involved

1215
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:49,000
Speaker 1: with this movie. They got the distinct impression that Disney

1216
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:51,600
Speaker 1: was just trying to bury it. Um. Aside from a

1217
01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:54,400
Speaker 1: set visit from Entertainment Tonight and the three stars appearing

1218
01:09:54,439 --> 01:09:56,839
Speaker 1: individually on The Today Show the week of its release,

1219
01:09:57,200 --> 01:10:00,639
Speaker 1: there were almost no contemporary interviews out there and very

1220
01:10:00,680 --> 01:10:04,120
Speaker 1: little promo for the film at the time, as Jason Marsden,

1221
01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:06,840
Speaker 1: the voice of Thackeray Banks and no stranger to the

1222
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:10,040
Speaker 1: Disney machine at the time, later said it wasn't built

1223
01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:12,479
Speaker 1: up as this landmark thing that Disney was going to launch.

1224
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:14,600
Speaker 1: He joked that if there was a press tour for

1225
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:19,160
Speaker 1: the movie, they didn't invite me. David Kirshner had similar sentiments,

1226
01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:21,640
Speaker 1: saying I never got the impression that Disney were gung ho.

1227
01:10:22,160 --> 01:10:24,080
Speaker 1: They put the trailer out there and that's about all

1228
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:27,800
Speaker 1: they did for it. The movie was also torn apart,

1229
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:32,439
Speaker 1: much like a moth in Doug Jones's mouth. Focus Pocus

1230
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:35,920
Speaker 1: was torn apart by critics. Jane Siskel called it a

1231
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:39,960
Speaker 1: dreadful witches comedy with nothing funny to say. Roger Ebert

1232
01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:42,639
Speaker 1: gave it a mere one star, writing of the film's

1233
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:45,360
Speaker 1: many problems, the greatest maybe that all three whitches are

1234
01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:49,200
Speaker 1: thoroughly unpleasant. They don't have personalities, they have behavior patterns

1235
01:10:49,240 --> 01:10:53,840
Speaker 1: and decibel levels. That's good. A good movie inspires the

1236
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:57,439
Speaker 1: audience to subconsciously ask, give me more. The witches in

1237
01:10:57,520 --> 01:11:00,639
Speaker 1: this one inspired my silent cry get out of here.

1238
01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:03,600
Speaker 1: Oh man, that's not as good. Hocus Pocus is a

1239
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:06,720
Speaker 1: film desperately in need of self discipline. It's one of

1240
01:11:06,760 --> 01:11:09,559
Speaker 1: those projects where you imagine everyone laughing and applauding each

1241
01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:12,040
Speaker 1: other after every scene because they're so convinced they're wild

1242
01:11:12,080 --> 01:11:14,879
Speaker 1: and crazy guys. But watching the movie is like attending

1243
01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:17,559
Speaker 1: a party you weren't invited to and where you don't

1244
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:19,600
Speaker 1: know anybody and they're all in on a joke but

1245
01:11:19,680 --> 01:11:24,200
Speaker 1: won't explain it to you. Ebert not wonder Pool Punches

1246
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:27,639
Speaker 1: Entertainment Weekly was no kinder, calling it a piece of corny,

1247
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:32,200
Speaker 1: slapstick trash, and saying it was acceptably scary, silly kid

1248
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:36,200
Speaker 1: father that adults will find only mildly insulting unless they're

1249
01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:39,000
Speaker 1: bet Middler fans, in which case it's depressing as hell.

1250
01:11:40,320 --> 01:11:43,200
Speaker 1: To this day, the film holds a thirty eight percent

1251
01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:46,960
Speaker 1: critical score on Rotten Tomatoes, so all in all, a

1252
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:49,920
Speaker 1: bit of a sad trombone. Thora Birch told The Rap

1253
01:11:50,120 --> 01:11:52,640
Speaker 1: After that initial disappointment were off, there was just a

1254
01:11:52,640 --> 01:11:56,280
Speaker 1: period of dead silence about the film, like nobody talked

1255
01:11:56,320 --> 01:11:59,080
Speaker 1: about it, nobody watched It felt like that lasted for

1256
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:03,879
Speaker 1: about ten years, is and then the cast gradually noticed

1257
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:06,760
Speaker 1: this ground swell around the movie. They said that the

1258
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:09,240
Speaker 1: cult status of the movie sort of dawned them them

1259
01:12:09,240 --> 01:12:11,840
Speaker 1: all at different times, but the average was around two

1260
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:16,280
Speaker 1: thousand seven two thousand eight. So what happened, Well, First

1261
01:12:16,280 --> 01:12:18,439
Speaker 1: of all, it became a constant feature on both the

1262
01:12:18,439 --> 01:12:21,920
Speaker 1: Disney Channel and the Disney owned ABC Family Channel for years,

1263
01:12:22,439 --> 01:12:26,519
Speaker 1: anchoring the multi week block of Festive Halloween programming, and

1264
01:12:26,560 --> 01:12:28,920
Speaker 1: of course was also a huge hit on home video.

1265
01:12:29,320 --> 01:12:31,800
Speaker 1: Hocus Focus was first released in two thousand two, but

1266
01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:35,000
Speaker 1: sales really started speeding up in two thousand eight, So yeah,

1267
01:12:35,040 --> 01:12:38,680
Speaker 1: it's around. You know that that that jibes within the

1268
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:41,320
Speaker 1: cast started noticing that they were being asked about it

1269
01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:45,200
Speaker 1: more at fan events and stuff, and every October since

1270
01:12:45,240 --> 01:12:47,559
Speaker 1: two thousand eleven, the movie has made more than one

1271
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:51,799
Speaker 1: million dollars in DVD sales a year, and that figure

1272
01:12:51,960 --> 01:12:54,240
Speaker 1: is sure to rise this year with the release of

1273
01:12:54,240 --> 01:12:58,639
Speaker 1: the Hocus Focus sequel. In September, director Kenny Ortega spoke

1274
01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:02,559
Speaker 1: about the film slow Burn and interview with Forbes. Talking

1275
01:13:02,600 --> 01:13:05,320
Speaker 1: about the initial flop, he said, Honestly, at that point,

1276
01:13:05,600 --> 01:13:07,400
Speaker 1: I thought it was all over for me. I thought

1277
01:13:07,400 --> 01:13:09,439
Speaker 1: to myself, I'm never going to get a chance to

1278
01:13:09,439 --> 01:13:11,680
Speaker 1: do this ever again. My career as a filmmaker is

1279
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:15,599
Speaker 1: all over. Then over the years everything changes. What I've

1280
01:13:15,680 --> 01:13:18,599
Speaker 1: learned is don't give up. I believed in Hocus Pocus,

1281
01:13:18,800 --> 01:13:21,120
Speaker 1: the girls believed in it, and even though it wasn't

1282
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:24,559
Speaker 1: found by audiences immediately, the generations have believed in it.

1283
01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:28,240
Speaker 1: And you know, for a movie that neither Haigl nor

1284
01:13:28,320 --> 01:13:32,360
Speaker 1: myself have ever seen or especially care too, I think

1285
01:13:32,439 --> 01:13:36,240
Speaker 1: that that's a beautiful sentiment to end on. Bett Mitler

1286
01:13:36,280 --> 01:13:38,800
Speaker 1: has talked about the film's late blooming success during a

1287
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:45,000
Speaker 1: Reddit a m a in nah, um, that's amazing, she said,

1288
01:13:45,040 --> 01:13:47,639
Speaker 1: I am shocked. I'm totally shocked. All of us are

1289
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:50,759
Speaker 1: just stunned by the success of the movie. Kathy, Sarah,

1290
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:53,919
Speaker 1: Jessica and I have talked about it. We are totally

1291
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:56,760
Speaker 1: thrilled to death because when it came out, it laid

1292
01:13:56,800 --> 01:13:59,640
Speaker 1: a tiny little bit of an egg. She said, so

1293
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:03,439
Speaker 1: expect much and now look at it. October is hocus

1294
01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:08,040
Speaker 1: Pocus month. And she also, well, okay, let's give her.

1295
01:14:08,080 --> 01:14:10,640
Speaker 1: Let's give her that. She also told the BBC that

1296
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:13,360
Speaker 1: it's her favorite among all of the films that she's made,

1297
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:16,479
Speaker 1: though she doesn't rewatch it much. Kathey m Jimmy, on

1298
01:14:16,520 --> 01:14:19,000
Speaker 1: the other hand, has made an annual tradition of rewatching

1299
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:23,840
Speaker 1: hocus Pocus with her family every year on August. Apparently.

1300
01:14:24,160 --> 01:14:27,120
Speaker 1: I don't know why that's the case, because it wasn't

1301
01:14:27,160 --> 01:14:29,880
Speaker 1: when it was released and it's not Halloween. Maybe it's

1302
01:14:30,280 --> 01:14:32,720
Speaker 1: in between when it was released in Halloween. I don't know,

1303
01:14:33,560 --> 01:14:36,840
Speaker 1: it's the way point between when it was released in Halloween.

1304
01:14:37,640 --> 01:14:40,639
Speaker 1: But you know, honestly, if it makes Kathy and Jimmy happy,

1305
01:14:41,320 --> 01:14:44,880
Speaker 1: I think this was all worth it. The movie, the podcast,

1306
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:49,880
Speaker 1: all of it, All of it, folks, Thank you for listening.

1307
01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:52,640
Speaker 1: This has been too much information. I'm Alex Hegel and

1308
01:14:52,680 --> 01:15:00,200
Speaker 1: I'm Jordan run Tug. We'll get you next time. Too

1309
01:15:00,280 --> 01:15:02,760
Speaker 1: Much Information was a production of I Heart Radio. The

1310
01:15:02,800 --> 01:15:06,200
Speaker 1: show's executive producers are Noel Brown and Jordan Runtalk. The

1311
01:15:06,240 --> 01:15:09,759
Speaker 1: supervising producer is Mike John's. The show was researched, written

1312
01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:12,600
Speaker 1: and hosted by Jordan runt Talk and Alex Hegel, with

1313
01:15:12,680 --> 01:15:15,639
Speaker 1: original music by Seth Applebaum and the Ghost Funk Orchestra.

1314
01:15:16,040 --> 01:15:18,080
Speaker 1: If you like what you heard, please subscribe and leave

1315
01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:20,759
Speaker 1: us a review. For more podcasts and I heart Radio,

1316
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:23,880
Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever

1317
01:15:23,960 --> 01:15:25,240
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows