1
00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:13,280
Speaker 1: This is the meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

2
00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:18,319
Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You

3
00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,919
Speaker 1: can't predict anything. The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to

4
00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:24,759
Speaker 1: you by first Light. Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging

5
00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:28,240
Speaker 1: deer stands, or scouting for ELK. First Light has performance

6
00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:31,440
Speaker 1: apparel to support every hunter in every environment. Check it

7
00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,320
Speaker 1: out at first light dot com. F I R S

8
00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:41,280
Speaker 1: T L I t E dot com. Joined today by

9
00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:45,720
Speaker 1: my neighbor but not Pottery Pat. Further down the road,

10
00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:51,720
Speaker 1: Reverend doctor Shane Yates, CEO and co founder of Task

11
00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:58,080
Speaker 1: Force Heroes, who, uh, send us his h upon our request.

12
00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:05,720
Speaker 1: He's not bragging, send us his like military CV that

13
00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:09,360
Speaker 1: goes on and on, Chilie, what's your take on that?

14
00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,280
Speaker 1: He just, Shane says, just demonstrates that he's old.

15
00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were talking about you know how they change

16
00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:22,119
Speaker 2: things like for an example, like uh, for a lot

17
00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:24,440
Speaker 2: up until like from two thousand and one, like I believe,

18
00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,759
Speaker 2: like twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, somewhere in there,

19
00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:31,200
Speaker 2: like they called it Operation Enduring Freedom, which means like

20
00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,680
Speaker 2: the campaign in Afghanistan and then in sixteen or seventeen,

21
00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,440
Speaker 2: they change it to Operation Resolute Support. So like it

22
00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:39,880
Speaker 2: just kind of signifies like things are constantly changing. So

23
00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:43,399
Speaker 2: though I don't understand most of what it's on there,

24
00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,280
Speaker 2: it's like I'm sure there's something similar that.

25
00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:47,480
Speaker 3: I could probably relate it to.

26
00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:49,400
Speaker 2: But like I look at it, I'm just like, yes,

27
00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:58,280
Speaker 2: I would refer to him as stacked, soa which none's yeah.

28
00:01:58,360 --> 00:01:59,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, so when I when I.

29
00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:01,320
Speaker 2: Say st act, it's like you look at his like

30
00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,840
Speaker 2: his his achievements and medals, and like your stack is

31
00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,720
Speaker 2: like your your ribbons and medals, and so if you're stacked,

32
00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:08,080
Speaker 2: you have a.

33
00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:08,600
Speaker 4: Lot of them.

34
00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,960
Speaker 1: Brown Star Medal with Oak Leaf Cluster, Combat Action Badge,

35
00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,440
Speaker 1: I Raq Campaign Medal with two Brown Stars, Afghanistan Kane

36
00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,680
Speaker 1: Pain Medal with two Brown Stars, NATO Service Medal, National.

37
00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:21,200
Speaker 1: I could go on and on.

38
00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:25,560
Speaker 4: He loves he loves it. I don't like it, what.

39
00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:31,240
Speaker 5: I know, jumping out, but I'm not sorry at all.

40
00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:34,040
Speaker 1: Born and barn and codyak Alaska. Let me let's take

41
00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:38,960
Speaker 1: this approach. Born and cordyak Alaska. Uh A long career

42
00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:39,799
Speaker 1: in law enforcement.

43
00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was, actually I was born in that might change, Oh, sorry.

44
00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,840
Speaker 4: I was born in Sino, Oh, California, but spent most

45
00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:48,960
Speaker 4: of my life growing up in Kodyak got it.

46
00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:53,080
Speaker 1: And then longtime law enforcement in l A. P D.

47
00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,680
Speaker 1: Eli cheff l a shrif and then it don't make

48
00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:02,160
Speaker 1: us up with LAPD A sheriff Yeah yeah yeah, and

49
00:03:02,200 --> 00:03:06,799
Speaker 1: then long long time in the US Army. Yeah yeah,

50
00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:08,359
Speaker 1: I went in a little older. Uh.

51
00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,079
Speaker 4: And again I'm still in so I'm not here representing

52
00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:15,160
Speaker 4: the army, but I went in after after law enforcement

53
00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,280
Speaker 4: as a as a chaplain. Just kind of an interesting change.

54
00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:22,760
Speaker 4: And and yeah, I've been doing that now for almost

55
00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:23,480
Speaker 4: eighteen years.

56
00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,600
Speaker 1: In that up the Shane lives up the road for me,

57
00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:32,480
Speaker 1: and well it not lives, but Shane's organization, Task Force Heroes,

58
00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,360
Speaker 1: is based up the road for me on a on

59
00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:36,840
Speaker 1: a property. And I just became aware of Shane and

60
00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:38,760
Speaker 1: wanted to have him on the show because of he

61
00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:42,160
Speaker 1: does really cool work, which we're going to get into.

62
00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:49,560
Speaker 1: Shane hosts. You tell tell everybody what you tell everybody that. Yeah,

63
00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:51,000
Speaker 1: I wanted to do it like an intro, but I'd

64
00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:51,720
Speaker 1: rather just hear it from you.

65
00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,000
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah. So we bring up first responders and vets

66
00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,680
Speaker 4: from all across the country. Uh, totally free. I mean

67
00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,400
Speaker 4: guys and gals from various agencies. A lot of them

68
00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,280
Speaker 4: been involved in some of the more major critical incidents

69
00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,360
Speaker 4: that have gone on in the country. So we're blessed

70
00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:12,160
Speaker 4: to do that. And then vets from all over the

71
00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:16,840
Speaker 4: country as well, so police fire and either actively serving

72
00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:17,920
Speaker 4: or veterans.

73
00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,240
Speaker 1: Give an example, some of the groups you might have up.

74
00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:22,120
Speaker 1: I mean, as much as you're comfortable. Yeah, you've at

75
00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:24,279
Speaker 1: various times told me about groups you had in and

76
00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,560
Speaker 1: it could be like a collection of officers who've been

77
00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,760
Speaker 1: involved in a specific incident or how much are you

78
00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:32,080
Speaker 1: comfortable talking about.

79
00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, No, for instances, Yeah, we can talk a

80
00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:35,920
Speaker 4: little bit about that. So we get a ton of

81
00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,200
Speaker 4: for whatever reason, probably just something like connections in LA,

82
00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:41,880
Speaker 4: but we get a lot of LAPD guys, a lot

83
00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,760
Speaker 4: of Metro Division you know, Tier one level, you know,

84
00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:50,680
Speaker 4: SWAT canine guys up, a lot of We've had a

85
00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:56,160
Speaker 4: lot of hunted beach pilots, hunting beach PD folks, Long

86
00:04:56,200 --> 00:05:00,000
Speaker 4: Beach fire from some incidents that occurred there and unfortun

87
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,840
Speaker 4: in an incident in particular where where a captain was

88
00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,440
Speaker 4: killed on a fire by a pistol by a guy

89
00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,240
Speaker 4: with the hang gun. And then you know, vets from

90
00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:14,440
Speaker 4: all over the place and from multiple conflicts, mostly oif

91
00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:19,279
Speaker 4: oef Iraq, Afghanistan stuff, a lot of pilots won, sixty

92
00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:21,880
Speaker 4: of sore guys, just kind of all over all over

93
00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:22,240
Speaker 4: the board.

94
00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:27,520
Speaker 1: And these guys come up and they fish. You gotta

95
00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,400
Speaker 1: shoot bows. You get outside. And as Shane puts it,

96
00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:35,080
Speaker 1: he put it to me, the technical term he put

97
00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:36,920
Speaker 1: to me, we shower them and love.

98
00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:40,520
Speaker 4: Man. I mean, I think you know that. Here's here's

99
00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:42,280
Speaker 4: the deal, right. The goal is to reach in and

100
00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:45,240
Speaker 4: massage their hearts and love on them and meet them

101
00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:47,080
Speaker 4: right where they are, not where we think they need

102
00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,360
Speaker 4: to be, just just right where they are in their journey.

103
00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:53,560
Speaker 4: And so we do fly fishing, right. We teach that,

104
00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,720
Speaker 4: we do archery stuff. We used to do more mountain biking,

105
00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,160
Speaker 4: but they seem to like the archery is probably their favorite.

106
00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,240
Speaker 4: So we set up a course three D targets all

107
00:06:02,279 --> 00:06:05,760
Speaker 4: at kind of long course and then uh, and then

108
00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:07,600
Speaker 4: get them out fishing. And then we don't want them

109
00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:11,160
Speaker 4: just to just to go have fun. I mean that's

110
00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,320
Speaker 4: a that's a part of it, right, kind of decompress,

111
00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:15,600
Speaker 4: get out of the concrete jungles that they're working in

112
00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,680
Speaker 4: or wherever they're at. We want them to take home

113
00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,800
Speaker 4: something as well for their toolbox and and uh and

114
00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,480
Speaker 4: so we teach resiliency skills kind of the five pillars.

115
00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:30,360
Speaker 4: We'll talk about spiritual resiency, whatever that looks like to them.

116
00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,000
Speaker 4: You could also substitute the word resiliency for fitness, but

117
00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:41,240
Speaker 4: spiritual resiliency, physical resiliency, emotional, social, family, mental, all those

118
00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:43,360
Speaker 4: kind of all those kind of things too, So they

119
00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,240
Speaker 4: learned something while they're there. And then we also give

120
00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:50,280
Speaker 4: them a little shot of some leadership stuff. We talk

121
00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,360
Speaker 4: about their core, their context, their capabilities, and courage. What's

122
00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,520
Speaker 4: real courage look like? You know, where where are you

123
00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,120
Speaker 4: going to stand up? And and and let's look at

124
00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,560
Speaker 4: the times where you should stood up for what was right?

125
00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:05,279
Speaker 4: And so we cover all those contexts. Would be where

126
00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:11,600
Speaker 4: you're currently at in your life, your marriage, family, work capabilities,

127
00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,400
Speaker 4: What are those God given gifts and talents that you

128
00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:16,400
Speaker 4: have that maybe you're not using. What are the things

129
00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:18,280
Speaker 4: that rob you of your energy man and drain you?

130
00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:20,360
Speaker 4: And what are the things that you can do that

131
00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,920
Speaker 4: give you energy. So obviously outdoors is one of those things.

132
00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,920
Speaker 1: We're gonna dive into that pretty deep and then talk

133
00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,720
Speaker 1: about your own background. But you got to hang tight

134
00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:32,040
Speaker 1: with us. For men, we're gonna talk about a couple

135
00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:40,080
Speaker 1: of other things. Yeah we have. This is a lot of

136
00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:44,480
Speaker 1: times guys right in with like really arcane fish and

137
00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:52,360
Speaker 1: wildlife rule breaking questions. Okay, all right, and so we

138
00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,280
Speaker 1: gotta do a little listener feedback here. You're ready for

139
00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,320
Speaker 1: this one, So this guy says me, eat or crew.

140
00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:03,600
Speaker 1: I have recently watched your episode titled the Future of Waterfowl.

141
00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,440
Speaker 1: The segment about how limits on waterfowl are decided remind

142
00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:11,160
Speaker 1: me of a question I have had I have discussed

143
00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,240
Speaker 1: with buddies while sitting in the blind. You're right for

144
00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:21,120
Speaker 1: the Shane. I live in northern Kentucky, Alawn on the

145
00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,200
Speaker 1: Ohio River. A lot of fishermen and hunters in this

146
00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,400
Speaker 1: area purchase a Kentucky license as well as an Indiana

147
00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,080
Speaker 1: license so that we can access the tributaries on both

148
00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,600
Speaker 1: sides of the river. Most laws are pretty straightforward, but

149
00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,840
Speaker 1: one area that is questionable are the limits for each state.

150
00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:44,000
Speaker 1: For example, as a Kentuckian, we are allowed three Canadian

151
00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:48,360
Speaker 1: allowed three Canada geese during the late season. As a

152
00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:52,600
Speaker 1: hoosier in the Southern Zone, you are allowed five Canada

153
00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:57,480
Speaker 1: geese daily for the duration of the season. My questions

154
00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:02,080
Speaker 1: are as follows. As a Kentucky resident that holds a

155
00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,520
Speaker 1: license for both states hunting on water that is legal

156
00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:09,720
Speaker 1: for both states, what is my legal limit during the

157
00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:12,720
Speaker 1: late season? Does it depend on which ramp you launch

158
00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:17,280
Speaker 1: off or which states wildlife officer checks you?

159
00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:18,440
Speaker 3: Can?

160
00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:26,199
Speaker 1: I shoot a limit for both states. It's funny took

161
00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,800
Speaker 1: it to a game warden, you did, Huh? I took

162
00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:29,679
Speaker 1: it to a game warden.

163
00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:31,920
Speaker 6: Well, yeah, it's funny though that he says that he

164
00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,959
Speaker 6: purposely hasn't taken it to a game ward because he

165
00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,959
Speaker 6: just loves talking about it and just wondering about it

166
00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:41,240
Speaker 6: and riding into meat eater about it.

167
00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:41,520
Speaker 4: Yep.

168
00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,800
Speaker 1: It's like when I may go to the game warden.

169
00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,480
Speaker 1: When I would send a question to a game warder,

170
00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,720
Speaker 1: a game warden, it's like, uh, you know, well, let's

171
00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:54,760
Speaker 1: say a fella, you know, just maybe.

172
00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,600
Speaker 6: Happened before you give me answer. Can I take a stab?

173
00:09:59,040 --> 00:09:59,400
Speaker 1: Yeah?

174
00:09:59,559 --> 00:09:59,920
Speaker 4: I don't have.

175
00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:05,040
Speaker 1: I have how a game warden, I asked a retired

176
00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,480
Speaker 1: game recently retired game warden how a key were to

177
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:09,040
Speaker 1: handle it, and he gave me a couple of things

178
00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:09,560
Speaker 1: to think about.

179
00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,400
Speaker 6: Yeah, because they'll always tell you that it's up to

180
00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:16,440
Speaker 6: their interpretation, right, But I would think I would feel

181
00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:18,800
Speaker 6: like I would have a very strong case no matter

182
00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:23,080
Speaker 6: which state I launched in, if I had the correct

183
00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,640
Speaker 6: hunting license and he has both. If I went to

184
00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:29,600
Speaker 6: the state where you could shoot more geese and I

185
00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,280
Speaker 6: shot more geese there, not in the state where you

186
00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,800
Speaker 6: could only shoot three, but where you could shoot five,

187
00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,680
Speaker 6: which was in Indiana, and I shot five geese, and

188
00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:41,520
Speaker 6: I came back to Kentucky. I was just over there

189
00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:44,240
Speaker 6: hunting as a non resident hunter. As long as you

190
00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,080
Speaker 6: could prove where you were and where you shot your

191
00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,520
Speaker 6: five geese, it shouldn't be a problem. And it's a

192
00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:54,000
Speaker 6: definite no on the question whether you can shoot two limits.

193
00:10:54,280 --> 00:11:00,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna give I'm gonna offer and

194
00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,319
Speaker 1: this I'm going to offer a couple little just a

195
00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:04,800
Speaker 1: little color from different areas before I tell you what

196
00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,760
Speaker 1: the game wardens said. He didn't say anything like you know,

197
00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:09,800
Speaker 1: like like stunning, but like, let me give you a

198
00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:13,679
Speaker 1: couple things to consider we might have discussed this in

199
00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:18,360
Speaker 1: the original conversation. But like, for instance, take the Delaware River,

200
00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:22,520
Speaker 1: which for a while along its course it forms the

201
00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:27,880
Speaker 1: border between New York and Pennsylvania. They created a a

202
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:32,439
Speaker 1: sort of unified zone so that you didn't have New

203
00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:37,160
Speaker 1: York law in that river, contradicting Pennsylvania law and that river,

204
00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:39,400
Speaker 1: the two states come together and come up with a

205
00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:45,120
Speaker 1: river bag limit. You can fish the entire river with

206
00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:49,280
Speaker 1: either state's license, but then the river has a bag

207
00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:52,280
Speaker 1: limit that sits aside. Like let's say New York is

208
00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,720
Speaker 1: like six bassa day. Pennsylvania. I'm just pulling these numbers out.

209
00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,400
Speaker 1: They're not real. Pennsylvania has four bassa day. And so

210
00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,200
Speaker 1: instead of some guys saying, well do I get six

211
00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,480
Speaker 1: or four, they go and say it in the river

212
00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,400
Speaker 1: and that river we're gonna come together and say it's

213
00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,679
Speaker 1: five in that river. That's one way to handle it.

214
00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,360
Speaker 1: Another example that's totally different is if you go to

215
00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,560
Speaker 1: the Saint Mary's River, which forms the border between the

216
00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:22,280
Speaker 1: United States and Canada, particularly Michigan and Ontario. You have

217
00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:26,960
Speaker 1: to like know in that river channel the international boundary

218
00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:31,800
Speaker 1: runs up the river. You're obligated to know where you are.

219
00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,040
Speaker 1: You're obligated to know like this line you can't see,

220
00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:41,040
Speaker 1: it's your responsibility to know that you didn't drift five

221
00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:45,079
Speaker 1: feet over into the US while fishing. Sure, and that's

222
00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:49,319
Speaker 1: that's how they look at it. I had one more example.

223
00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:50,800
Speaker 1: I thought it was kind of interesting about how they

224
00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:55,160
Speaker 1: do all this. Well, here's what the warden said. The

225
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,520
Speaker 1: warden said, I'd be asking you. I'd be looking at

226
00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:02,520
Speaker 1: two questions. Where were you what? Oh? No, one more color? More,

227
00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:07,319
Speaker 1: one more bit of color. In Alaska, they do an

228
00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:12,080
Speaker 1: interesting thing with this where it kind of pertains. Let's

229
00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,840
Speaker 1: say that you have one air and you're lowed three

230
00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:18,320
Speaker 1: black tail deer per year, and you have another area

231
00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:23,640
Speaker 1: and you're allowed one black tail deer per year throughout

232
00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:29,800
Speaker 1: the season. You can't hunt a place where you are

233
00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:34,880
Speaker 1: over that place's bag limit, regardless of where you got them.

234
00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,440
Speaker 5: Oh, collectively, So if you're in the three limit and

235
00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:39,800
Speaker 5: you shoot one, you can't go hunt in the one limit.

236
00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:44,160
Speaker 1: So so let's say like, let's say you are go

237
00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:48,680
Speaker 1: down to the you go down to Sitka and you

238
00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:52,160
Speaker 1: kill a black You kill a black tail, and then

239
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:54,360
Speaker 1: you go to your home and your home is a

240
00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,400
Speaker 1: one bag limit. You're out in your home, you couldn't

241
00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,640
Speaker 1: be like, well, I got my one there where it's three.

242
00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:03,280
Speaker 1: It's like your possession limit follows you to wherever you go.

243
00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:05,800
Speaker 1: So the warden that I brought this question to said,

244
00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,720
Speaker 1: I would be looking at where were you when you

245
00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:13,600
Speaker 1: shot him? Obviously, but then I would also be wondering

246
00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:18,160
Speaker 1: I would be looking at too, is besides that where

247
00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:22,560
Speaker 1: were you when you possessed them? So your thing of

248
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,120
Speaker 1: that you cross the channel and kill, you cross the

249
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,080
Speaker 1: channel in a place and kill five where you're allowed five.

250
00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:32,320
Speaker 1: But then you're pulling out, you're still got your shotgun

251
00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,080
Speaker 1: with you, and you're still look to be hunting, and

252
00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,560
Speaker 1: you're and you're pulling your boat out in a three zone.

253
00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:44,520
Speaker 1: He would feel that you were over your possession in

254
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,440
Speaker 1: the field, and it'd be like, well, I understand you

255
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:53,960
Speaker 1: got him over there, but here you're hunting and you're

256
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:58,040
Speaker 1: over your possession. And that's how that's his take on it.

257
00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,400
Speaker 5: I feel like that's reading the rules in a way

258
00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:09,320
Speaker 5: where you're, uh, you're trying to be like the most fair,

259
00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:14,480
Speaker 5: like you're not trying to like advantage yourself in a

260
00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:18,040
Speaker 5: little you know, like I think that's the right way.

261
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,520
Speaker 5: So I think that our our listener probably like deep

262
00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,720
Speaker 5: inside his heart knows what the answer really is.

263
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,520
Speaker 1: So there. Yeah, and maybe the warden, like the warden's

264
00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,360
Speaker 1: in a position where is he really got to go

265
00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:34,480
Speaker 1: figure out where you were standing when you shot all

266
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,080
Speaker 1: these He's just like, dude, you're like, oh, in your

267
00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,840
Speaker 1: boat hunting, you got your gun, you got five geese,

268
00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:45,800
Speaker 1: you're here, Like you're here, you're over your limits.

269
00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:46,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

270
00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,200
Speaker 2: I also feel like it's a pretty pretty easy question

271
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,280
Speaker 2: to answer because I can I guarantee that he's not

272
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,240
Speaker 2: the first person along that river that has ever had

273
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,480
Speaker 2: that question and or maybe or not done that. No,

274
00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:03,040
Speaker 2: so just called your f WP your game warden and

275
00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,440
Speaker 2: ask him because I'm sure they've dealt with it before.

276
00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,640
Speaker 2: So it's like I feel like he went out of

277
00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:10,520
Speaker 2: his way to email us. What he could have just

278
00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:12,600
Speaker 2: called the WP office and figured it out.

279
00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:14,800
Speaker 1: Well, No, I think emailed because this is my favorite

280
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,200
Speaker 1: It's my favorite subject in the world, right, but like

281
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,480
Speaker 1: like just like weird game laws but.

282
00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:20,240
Speaker 3: No, no, no, totally.

283
00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:22,440
Speaker 2: What I'm saying is like he emailed with not knowing

284
00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:24,520
Speaker 2: if he could get a response from you, but he

285
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,200
Speaker 2: could have certainly got a response from guaranteed response from.

286
00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:29,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, but he's also contributing to our intent.

287
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,680
Speaker 1: I'm thank you very much, spite Chili. Spite Chili thinking

288
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:39,800
Speaker 1: that you like screwed up and yeah, man, come on, dude,

289
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,600
Speaker 1: good question. This next one we're gonna go to. We're

290
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,080
Speaker 1: gonna go to reverend, We're gonna go to our past.

291
00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:48,920
Speaker 1: All right, here we go, because this is a this

292
00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,680
Speaker 1: is an ethics one. Now, you got law enforcement background,

293
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:53,680
Speaker 1: so you could have definitely wighed in on law enforcement.

294
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:54,920
Speaker 1: We're going to bring an ethics.

295
00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:55,560
Speaker 4: One to you, all right.

296
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,240
Speaker 1: We do a thing called We have a colleague called Chester,

297
00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:01,640
Speaker 1: and Chester's the nicest, most fair guy in the world.

298
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,600
Speaker 1: So a lot of times we'll bring etiquette questions and

299
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:06,640
Speaker 1: we call hi, Chatticutt, and we'll bring him to Chester,

300
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:12,240
Speaker 1: who usually waffles. He's just like, well, you know, I

301
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,919
Speaker 1: can see both sides, you know. But here's an ethics

302
00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:20,080
Speaker 1: one for you. All right, Hello, crew, you ready you're

303
00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:20,840
Speaker 1: following chain.

304
00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:22,520
Speaker 4: I'm following, Hello crew.

305
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,680
Speaker 1: I hunt rural South Carolina and my father in law's property,

306
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,880
Speaker 1: which is mostly open row crop fields with a few

307
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:34,280
Speaker 1: blocks of wood between fields you picture in it. My

308
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:36,840
Speaker 1: father in law in the late two thousands bought the

309
00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:41,199
Speaker 1: land from his father in law. This sounds like a

310
00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:43,480
Speaker 1: right thing for I haven't read this yet. This sounds

311
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,359
Speaker 1: like there might be a divorce brewing somewhere in this email.

312
00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:49,880
Speaker 6: I don't think that fact is actually important to.

313
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:53,879
Speaker 1: The It doesn't wind up being about divorce. Okay, So

314
00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:56,400
Speaker 1: just a little background. Father in law bought it from

315
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,560
Speaker 1: father in law. There's a guy that has half a

316
00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:04,680
Speaker 1: dozen stands scattered across the property. It's roughly eight hundred acres.

317
00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,760
Speaker 1: He also loans his spots out to his friends to

318
00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:14,800
Speaker 1: hunt as they please. This guy theorizes that this individual

319
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:18,280
Speaker 1: is charging these people to hunt and has turned this

320
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,520
Speaker 1: land into a hunting club. My father in law has

321
00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,400
Speaker 1: zero interest in hunting, so this is not really an

322
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:29,639
Speaker 1: issue for him, but it is for my wife, his daughter,

323
00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:33,400
Speaker 1: and her brother, along with myself. So just to help

324
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,159
Speaker 1: people at home understand, the patriarch who actually owns the

325
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:40,640
Speaker 1: land doesn't care what this guy does. His children care.

326
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:46,400
Speaker 6: And this guy has no affiliation with the family other

327
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,919
Speaker 6: than he used to have access with the previous owner,

328
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:53,640
Speaker 6: father in law of his father in law.

329
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:59,199
Speaker 1: So let me continue on. He the patriarch does not

330
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:01,919
Speaker 1: want to complete kicked the guy off the land because

331
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,600
Speaker 1: he had permission to hunt there before my father in

332
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,919
Speaker 1: law acquired the property, so he feels that he should

333
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,640
Speaker 1: be allowed a couple stands, but only the one guy,

334
00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:17,080
Speaker 1: not his buddies. Lots of feelings, lots However, the guy

335
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,800
Speaker 1: has never actually asked my father in law for hunting

336
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:27,520
Speaker 1: permission since he has been the landowner for seventeen years.

337
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,600
Speaker 1: I confronted the guy and drew on the map the

338
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:34,200
Speaker 1: one field about eighty five acres that me, along with

339
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,560
Speaker 1: my wife and brother in law were okay with him

340
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,239
Speaker 1: and only him hunting. He was not a fan of

341
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:44,639
Speaker 1: my suggestion and responded that he was gonna hunt the

342
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:50,160
Speaker 1: whole road, which is about four hundred acres. How can

343
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:52,919
Speaker 1: I handle this for the twenty twenty five deer hunting season.

344
00:19:55,160 --> 00:20:00,119
Speaker 1: My wife is leaning towards calling the game warden. This

345
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:01,800
Speaker 1: guy points out, I don't know this will do much

346
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,080
Speaker 1: good because my father in law is not the guy

347
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:09,360
Speaker 1: kind of guy to press trespassing charges. Meanwhile, the brother

348
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:14,200
Speaker 1: in law wants to tear down the hunting stands. What's

349
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,880
Speaker 1: the cleanest way to avoid any larger issues, if there

350
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,640
Speaker 1: are any, it's pretty obvious.

351
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:22,760
Speaker 5: Its pretty dark.

352
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,720
Speaker 4: I think pop has got the last. Yeah, I mean

353
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,280
Speaker 4: that's about mine. He's barking up the wrong tree.

354
00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:29,960
Speaker 1: He wrote the email to the wrong people.

355
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:34,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's yeah, I'm sorry, man. That's that's a that's

356
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:36,560
Speaker 4: an ethical that's a good one. I wish I had

357
00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,600
Speaker 4: easy ones like that all the time. Yeah.

358
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:41,920
Speaker 1: It sounds like you gotta go talk to dad.

359
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 4: And if dad's cool with it, then there. I mean,

360
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:44,520
Speaker 4: that's it.

361
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:49,280
Speaker 2: But isn't there like like if he got permission from

362
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,080
Speaker 2: you know, two owners ago, he.

363
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,000
Speaker 1: Would he would he's got his own problem.

364
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,360
Speaker 2: Well yeah, but he would also need to get permission

365
00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,520
Speaker 2: again or every time, like under new ownership.

366
00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,760
Speaker 1: Not a well not according to that guy, he has

367
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,879
Speaker 1: a task that he enjoys, a tacit permission from the

368
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,359
Speaker 1: father in law. Whatever's going on between the guy and

369
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 1: the father in law. If the owner of the property,

370
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:14,679
Speaker 1: it's like, I don't want to mess with the guy.

371
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,399
Speaker 1: That's his call. Yeah, I got we got a funny

372
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:23,440
Speaker 1: story that's similarly similar to this where I probably I'm

373
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:24,879
Speaker 1: sure I've told this, but I'll tell it.

374
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:26,040
Speaker 5: Uh.

375
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,400
Speaker 1: A friend of mine had a friend of mine from

376
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,720
Speaker 1: school had a Her family owned some properties in California.

377
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,680
Speaker 1: I'm talking to her dad and her dad's like, yeah,

378
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 1: you guys can hunt turkeys. He says, no one's ever

379
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,160
Speaker 1: hunting turkeys except for it. It was like, I'm not exaggering.

380
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:45,600
Speaker 1: Twenty years ago, twenty years prior, he had been trying

381
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 1: to put in a water system he had. He had

382
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:51,240
Speaker 1: a pond, and he was trying to put in a

383
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:56,159
Speaker 1: wildfire water system of his own. So some guys from

384
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,480
Speaker 1: the local fire department came out and consulted with him

385
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 1: about how to go about putting in his own pump

386
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,480
Speaker 1: system so that he could fight fire if his house

387
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:03,360
Speaker 1: was gonna catch on fire.

388
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 4: Uh.

389
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:09,639
Speaker 1: And as a thank you, he extended a permission to

390
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 1: one of these firefighters to hunt turkeys. He's telling me,

391
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,840
Speaker 1: no one's hunted it since that guy when I put

392
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 1: the pumpin. While we're hunting. While we're hunting, we run

393
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,359
Speaker 1: into a guy and here's a guy hunting the place,

394
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,320
Speaker 1: and I'm and I you know, it's you always feel

395
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,160
Speaker 1: funny because like you're have permission too, but you can't.

396
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 1: You got to like ask like, hey, what what's you

397
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 1: know my understanding from the landowners. No one's hunting, but

398
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 1: here's a guy hunting. So I'm like, hey, what what's up. Oh, yeah,

399
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 1: you know, Glenn gave you permission. I'm a I'm a firefighter. No,

400
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 1: you talk to Glenn lately. No, how is Glenn doing right? Hecks?

401
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:58,359
Speaker 1: This guy hadn't been hunting for twenty years off that permission.

402
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:01,919
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I mean the right obviously. The right

403
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:03,679
Speaker 4: thing to do is you got you gotta be checking in, man,

404
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 4: if you're hunting, some check in once in a while. Man,

405
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,680
Speaker 4: I mean, that's that's a no go. I mean that's like, Yeah,

406
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 4: I talked to him when was last like, yo, it

407
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:17,160
Speaker 4: was back in nineteen seventy four, gave that's a bad deal.

408
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,640
Speaker 6: I think it's rampant though. Like we just I had

409
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 6: a little bit of a wind fall with another property

410
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 6: in Wisconsin that we just gained access to, and I've

411
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 6: been kind of giddy about it. Then I started thinking

412
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,879
Speaker 6: about it. I'm like, you know, if everything's right according

413
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 6: to these older Latvian gals that no one's been hunting

414
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 6: this place for some time, it mean, and they haven't

415
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 6: been there in years, and their kids don't have anything

416
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 6: to do with it. Someone else is probably treating it

417
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 6: as their hunting spot. Sure, like I will not be

418
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 6: surprised when I go there this spring to find tree stance,

419
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,440
Speaker 6: maybe a camera, maybe some tire tracks.

420
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, it's the guarantee.

421
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 6: It's the old uh you know, better ask for forgiveness

422
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 6: than permission attitude.

423
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: When we were little. Uh. It's stunning now to drive

424
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,439
Speaker 1: around where I live with with on X because we're little,

425
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: if public meant you hadn't been yelled at there yet,

426
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,080
Speaker 1: and now to be like, oh my god, that's like

427
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: a guy's place. I never really thought about what that

428
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,880
Speaker 1: place was. We just called it the woods.

429
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:33,640
Speaker 5: I'm surprised that isn't that people really don't check in more?

430
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 5: And that's so common because you know you could get

431
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 5: in real big trouble for trespassing, So don't you want

432
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,719
Speaker 5: to be I just feel like the excuse of you know,

433
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 5: someone seventeen years ago gave me permission doesn't hold like

434
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 5: the one consonant. Life has change, so you know, you

435
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:51,879
Speaker 5: don't want.

436
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 6: To say real big trouble though, And it's just it's there,

437
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 6: isn't the real big trouble. I mean, it's going to

438
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 6: be a slap on the hand. It's like driving your

439
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 6: ATV places you're not supposed to drive it on these

440
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,439
Speaker 6: public lands. People do it because what are they going

441
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 6: to do. There's a couple hundred dollars fine, They're like, oh,

442
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:13,200
Speaker 6: I'd pay a thousand bucks and drive my Yeah exactly.

443
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 5: Maybe they should. Maybe we should. Someone should think about

444
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 5: changing the law because that's no.

445
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 6: I don't know, criann more rules and regulations around these parts.

446
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 4: People don't like that.

447
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 1: Shane.

448
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:27,800
Speaker 4: You ready, Okay?

449
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 1: Why'd you guys go to Kodiak? You were born? Where

450
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:30,920
Speaker 1: were you born?

451
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,119
Speaker 4: I was born in California, Southern California. How old I

452
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 4: I'm going to fifty seven? How long you been married? Yeah,

453
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:39,720
Speaker 4: he's asked me these tough ones. My wife's gonna listen

454
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 4: to this and make sure I get this right. I

455
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 4: was married ninety two, so, uh what is that? I

456
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 4: don't years?

457
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, thirty thirty three year gratulations.

458
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:50,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, she put up with me.

459
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the only wife.

460
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 4: Rising, it's my only wife.

461
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: Uh so why why Kodiak?

462
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 5: So?

463
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 4: My dad did contracts, some military contracts, was a builder, painter,

464
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 4: did a lot of that. So, and and he had

465
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:07,439
Speaker 4: a buddy from uh, Vietnam. It was up there crab fishing.

466
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 4: So he started doing construction stuff and then then he

467
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 4: went crab fishing stuff.

468
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: Yeah huh. And you were brought up around that. Yeah,

469
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,159
Speaker 1: had you finished? Had your dad been military he was

470
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 1: in Vietnam? Yeah, yeah, yeah, talk about I've lost track

471
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 1: of what it is. But but lay out your family,

472
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: like you guys are a family of service man. Yeah,

473
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: walk through that a little bit. It's kind of like

474
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 1: when you're telling me it before I was like, I

475
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: couldn't even follow all the people from your lineage.

476
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I'm not sure where you want me to start.

477
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:44,679
Speaker 4: But uh, grandparents served, you know, grandfather's, my dad served,

478
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 4: I served. My three sons are serving, uh, two in

479
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 4: the military, one in law enforcement, and then my daughter's

480
00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,159
Speaker 4: in law enforcement, one of my girls. And then my

481
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 4: other daughter. Ah, she's got two kids and she she's

482
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 4: the only one that's not not serving. But she's she's

483
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 4: low on the list for a fire department, so that's

484
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 4: what she's gonna do.

485
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 1: So that was a little bit baked in by your

486
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: dad or no, Like he wasn't bitter about Vietnam.

487
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 4: He didn't talk about Vietnam a lot. Man. I love

488
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 4: my pops man. But he was always happy, right, like,

489
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 4: always a happy guy, good mood, never cranky, never grumpy.

490
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 4: Wouldn't really get too much into into Vietnam, but but uh,

491
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 4: I just kind of watched him and in the little

492
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 4: bits he would say just kind of always stood out,

493
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,880
Speaker 4: you know, to me as hugely important. He'd always talked

494
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 4: about his buddies over there and different things like that.

495
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 4: And he was a former law enforcement guy, so he

496
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 4: started with California High Patrol way back in the day.

497
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 4: So I watched that service a lot, and uh, yeah,

498
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 4: that was kind of my my, my motivator, even even

499
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 4: in high school, even a lot of Scott. I think

500
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:02,400
Speaker 4: I was only one of my buddies, and I'm tight

501
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 4: with all my buddies from up there. Just a small town, right,

502
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 4: you grow up island, right, I mean there's one stoplight.

503
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,959
Speaker 4: When I was growing up, we were excited to get

504
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 4: a McDonald's and where I think in eighth grade or something.

505
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 4: But I think I'm the only one that went into

506
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 4: you know, military law enforcement type stuff. Out of that crew, yeah,

507
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 4: out of that crew.

508
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: And what was the first movie you made in that direction?

509
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 4: Uh? What do you mean, what year do we go there?

510
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 5: No?

511
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: No, I'm sorry. When you were when you were young

512
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: you got in law enforcement?

513
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, really young. So I left Alaska and I don't

514
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 4: know eighty seven, but i'd go back up and fish.

515
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 4: So the last place I fish was Bristol Bay Commercial

516
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 4: gil Netty. You, Yeah, fish there. I fished kind of

517
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 4: all over Alaska commercial fishing, salmon, harry and halibut openings,

518
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 4: and then uh, and then after that went to school

519
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 4: for a little while at Boise, stayed not long, and

520
00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 4: then and then went to went to La. I kind

521
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 4: of wanted to see the action and and where it

522
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 4: was kind of all happening, and I certainly got that.

523
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 4: But yeah, got hired hired there in eighty eight.

524
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: So what year? What year in La was the it

525
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: was later the Rodney King incident and all that.

526
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was there for that.

527
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: Ye did you specifically want to go there because of

528
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: family ties into California just because you thought that was

529
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: a place you were gonna.

530
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 4: Well, it was, I mean it was. It's the largest

531
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 4: sheriff's apartment, I believe, in the in the country, and

532
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 4: it just advanced and I kind of wanted to see

533
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 4: the inner city and and kind of go for the top,

534
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 4: you know, toughest place. And uh, I was young and

535
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 4: no responsibility at the time, so I went there and

536
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 4: I was actually on Normandy when when the riots jumped off. Well,

537
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 4: you know that Danny was getting kind of whooped up

538
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 4: pretty good, just up at Florence and Normany. So I

539
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 4: was just south on Normandy, south of Imperial, so we

540
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 4: were fairly close. We didn't know he was up there

541
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 4: getting whooped up on I was just handling the call

542
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 4: guy get his car shot up this little housing project,

543
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 4: and partner was down at the car. I was just

544
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 4: getting the info and all of a sudden, doors started

545
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 4: swinging open, and you know, certain things were being said

546
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 4: to us, and so I just started jumping steps by

547
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 4: every three or four steps you're back to the car.

548
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 4: And immediately the riots just jumped off. So we were

549
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 4: going south on Normy and the streets were flooding, and

550
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 4: I mean it was like immediate. That's what was kind

551
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 4: of wild to see just the immediate reaction of chaos.

552
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 4: And I remember looking back and seeing just people in

553
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 4: the streets, stores getting looted, and we were called back

554
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 4: to the station to kind of gear up, and that's

555
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 4: what we did. We geared up and they just said,

556
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 4: do what you can do. Try to roll two cars deep,

557
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 4: and so that's what we did for the next couple

558
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 4: of days. So, yeah, it was different.

559
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: Now it's just in your first few years of that.

560
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, I had worked custody, you know, with the sheriffs.

561
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 4: You got to work in the jails first, so that's

562
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 4: kind of an experience. Yeah, I worked up at a

563
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 4: super max facility and that's that's an interesting environment. You

564
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 4: can kind of learn the streets a little bit from

565
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 4: being in there, you know, talking to inmates and whatnot.

566
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 4: But yeah, yeah, then you get you know, you put

567
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 4: in your dream list or your wish list for I

568
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 4: think back then it was six choices. So my first

569
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 4: choice was to go down to South Central and work,

570
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 4: and I got my first choice. So you can kind

571
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 4: of watch your numbers as you get lower and lower

572
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 4: to when you're going to go out. I did twenty

573
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 4: eight months in the jail and then and then got

574
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 4: to sign there. So then you go to patrol school

575
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 4: and then you'll get your station and your trainee. For

576
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 4: a while. That was an experience. I don't know how

577
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 4: it is now, but it was humbling.

578
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, what was it like absorbing all that, you know,

579
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: absorbing that hatred of cops at that time in l A.

580
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, man, you know, I guess it's it was. It's

581
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 4: a little bit hard to understand. I mean when you

582
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,719
Speaker 4: roll into an area where you know it's it's painted,

583
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,239
Speaker 4: you know, spray painted certain words against the five oh

584
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 4: or you know that kind of stuff. It was different

585
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 4: from a kid that grew up in a tiny town.

586
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 5: You know.

587
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 4: That that that first night on patrol was it was wild. Uh,

588
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 4: as a trainee, as a new new person. My f

589
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 4: t O wasn there that night, so wrote to the

590
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 4: different guy and and so back then it was you know,

591
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 4: training was was hard and you're the new person, so

592
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 4: you just keep your mouth shutting and.

593
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: Do your work.

594
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 4: And uh, but yeah, it was it was different. You know,

595
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 4: I don't think it really affected me. I mean, you

596
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 4: just do your job, just do your thing, support the

597
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 4: community as best you can, support your your fellow fellow deputies.

598
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 4: But it was definitely a different environment from what I

599
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 4: had grown up in for sure.

600
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: How do you how do you look at like if

601
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: you if you look at the LA riots at that time,

602
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: just it for for younger people don't remember this. There

603
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: was an incident where it's like, if someone really wants

604
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: to dig in on this made the documentary if you've

605
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: seen it made in America that covers the l A

606
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: Riots really care, it winds up being it's this very

607
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 1: long ESPN thing about O. J. Simpson, but it spends

608
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 1: a ton of time on the LA Riots. But right, so,

609
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: a bunch of officers pull over a guy, Rodney King.

610
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: He resisted to rest somewhat, they beat snot out of him.

611
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 1: They got equated as that how it goes. Yeah, and

612
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 1: then all hell broke lose, right yeah. Uh they chased

613
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: him for for a long time. Yeah, yeah, somebody got

614
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:10,280
Speaker 1: on video.

615
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 4: That's right.

616
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, back, this is back when everything wasn't on video.

617
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, no, it was novel. It certainly was after that.

618
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh, how's that like? When something like that happens?

619
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 1: For what?

620
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 5: What?

621
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 1: What's your attitude toward those officers? I mean, do you

622
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: do you stay like, do you stay where you're going?

623
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,919
Speaker 1: You think yourself, well, I understand where they're coming from,

624
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 1: I understand where they got pushed to. Or do you

625
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 1: look at something like that when you're a policeman and

626
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:43,399
Speaker 1: you look at something like that and you'd be like, man,

627
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 1: you guys should have known better, Like, like, how do

628
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: you handle it? Internally?

629
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 4: I think I think one of the biggest things is

630
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,239
Speaker 4: is you never know what's gone on prior to this, right,

631
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 4: or or what the call was or or what's happening.

632
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 4: I'm certainly not I'm certainly not justifying that the amount

633
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:01,839
Speaker 4: of force as used. I wouldn't there, you know, I don't.

634
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 4: I don't know other than what I saw, But there

635
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 4: there's always many details and conversations and things said and

636
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 4: things done by the suspect as well as the as

637
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 4: the cop that I think that that plays a huge

638
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 4: role in all that you know, and and it's easy

639
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 4: to you know, again, not that situation, but other situations.

640
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 4: You know, you can see on TV and you can

641
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 4: watch it, but who knows what happened prior to that,

642
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 4: or what he was wanted for, or what his actions were,

643
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 4: what he said, or what the witness said or all

644
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:39,800
Speaker 4: that stuff. Yeah, is a huge piece of the story.

645
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, And in those cases, that's the thing I always

646
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: wind up thinking. I always wind up looking and him like, man,

647
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: I would have to have like a documentary about what

648
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: went on that day before I can really start putting

649
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 1: together who did Right now that you see stuff and

650
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 1: you're like it seems egregious, but then you're like, I

651
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 1: don't know what the hell happened? Man?

652
00:35:58,200 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 4: Right?

653
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: Like, right, you know, I don't know the background, right?

654
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 1: And why why is it being hard to weigh in

655
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: on it?

656
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 3: You know?

657
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 4: Right?

658
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 1: People are sure quick to right, But I always feel

659
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: a little reluctant.

660
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 4: Right, yeah. I mean and in the every you know,

661
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 4: encounter with someone you don't know who you're encountering. I

662
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 4: don't know what they knew about him or his background.

663
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:23,879
Speaker 4: I mean I've heard things, uh, but you know, all

664
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 4: those things play a play a role. What was he

665
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 4: wanted for? What was the crime committed? But again, I

666
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 4: mean you do have to kind of kind of chill, right, Yeah,

667
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 4: I mean you got to you gotta get to a

668
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 4: point where you can you can function and take care

669
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 4: of business without getting too caught up in the in

670
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 4: the scenario. Yeah, I mean, that's that's my thought. But again,

671
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 4: I wo wasn't there different department, So I don't, I don't.

672
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 4: I don't judge any anything any anything going on there

673
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 4: too much. I mean, it didn't look great right on film.

674
00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 4: It just it obviously didn't. So but not be there

675
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 4: all I'll hold I'll hold my my judgment.

676
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: So how long did you stay with LA Sheriff?

677
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 4: So I was there from eighty eight to ninety six

678
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,320
Speaker 4: or so, and then transferred up to Washington State. I

679
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 4: just didn't want to raise my kids down there anymore.

680
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 4: You know, it's it's getting rough. It's getting rough. When

681
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 4: I lived in a town and forgive me all you

682
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 4: people from Palm Dell, Lancaster, but I was living ninety

683
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 4: miles one way from from the station to my house.

684
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 4: So you know, when you got court every day you

685
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 4: got I was wearing graveyard most of the time. You're

686
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 4: getting off in the morning, and then you got court,

687
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 4: you're not coming home, you're sleeping in the bunk room.

688
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 4: Then you're driving eighty nine miles home or you know,

689
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:40,800
Speaker 4: whatever you decided to do.

690
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 1: That was a lot.

691
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 4: And then when you're starting to get gangsters roll up

692
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 4: in your in your driveway trying to oki dook the police.

693
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 4: What I mean by oki dok is trying to know

694
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 4: ack them or you know, not acknowledge them. Maybe they

695
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 4: they're trying to pretend like they live at your house

696
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 4: and you're getting woke up by someone trying to open

697
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 4: your door and uh, and the deputies are hopper suit

698
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 4: behind him or containments in your yard. It's probably time

699
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 4: to hold And that happened randomly? Or does that happened

700
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 4: to me three times?

701
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 6: But they're not because you were a pot because you

702
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 6: were a sheriff. It was just a coincidence.

703
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 4: WHOA yeah, Then a different world. I mean at the

704
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 4: station I work, we averaged about sixty six homicides a year.

705
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:32,399
Speaker 4: So it's a different environment, man, just different. But when

706
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,480
Speaker 4: that started happening, I mean, I I'd get message on

707
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 4: my MDT, oh hey we got to containment. Guy just

708
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:38,359
Speaker 4: jumped your fence in your backyard and my wife's home

709
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,359
Speaker 4: with little kids. Nothing to do with you being a cop,

710
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 4: nothing to do with it. He just happened to pull

711
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 4: his caper somewhere close right, I mean, And that was

712
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,120
Speaker 4: his route that he that he took. So it wasn't

713
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,880
Speaker 4: the greatest area to live in, So I couldn't afford

714
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 4: to live in some of the other other spots on

715
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,959
Speaker 4: a on a single incommon and so it was time.

716
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 4: It was time a great apartment, great people, some of

717
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 4: the best, my opinion, some of the best street cops.

718
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 4: They're in this country, probably the world, you know, work there.

719
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 4: What makes a good street cop, I think a guy

720
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 4: that can communicate well, right, A guy that can I

721
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 4: think also empathize, have compassion, but also be direct and

722
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 4: can communicate, can kind of relate and communicate well with

723
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 4: with the people in the community. Uh, you know, and

724
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 4: that's I think those are those are huge. And I

725
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 4: think there's also kind of a sixth sense, right, like

726
00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 4: you know, being able to see and watch and learn

727
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 4: and pay attention to the small details and listen to

728
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 4: the small details. And then time in the in the

729
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 4: radio car, right, I mean you just you got to

730
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 4: put in your time. And uh yeah, I think those

731
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 4: are some.

732
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 1: Of the some of the factors did things chill out

733
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 1: When he went to Washington State.

734
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 4: It was different. Yeah, it was different, a lot different.

735
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 4: Cheaper live, you know, great department, great people, but yeah,

736
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 4: police work done different, some of the laws are a

737
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 4: little different. Uh you know, the environment's different, right, No,

738
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 4: southwest Washington, Yeah, closer to Portland, so the whole environment's different.

739
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 2: Was there like a big like mental shift from like

740
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 2: working down in l A to like working up just

741
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 2: like do your like combat mindset change and.

742
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. I'm on a podcast, man,

743
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 4: so I gotta watch what I said and have talked

744
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 4: about this, right, what are we going to talk about it?

745
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 4: Now we're sitting out of my place. I'd be telling

746
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 4: you straight, huge mental shift, right, because you know, if

747
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,359
Speaker 4: you're working a known gang area, no narcotics area, there's

748
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 4: there's things that are justifiable by the law that you

749
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:53,920
Speaker 4: can do in certain areas. Now I'm talking way back

750
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 4: in the nineties. I don't know how it is now,

751
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 4: so so forgive me. But you know you've made my

752
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 4: ultiple rests at this location. You know there's no drug

753
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 4: dealers in the area. There's all of these things that

754
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 4: you can articulate that can help you deal with bad guys. Right,

755
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 4: you don't you don't have that. Now you're in a

756
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 4: you're in a town of where there's very few gangs,

757
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 4: at least at the time. Drugs are everywhere, so so

758
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:24,800
Speaker 4: those are those are around. But yeah, you have to

759
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 4: just your you have to slow down your role and

760
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 4: you have to calm down, right, That's how i'd say,

761
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:34,200
Speaker 4: And I and I got told that.

762
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:39,879
Speaker 5: So, yeah, just a side question. When you were when

763
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,840
Speaker 5: you went from Alaska to California and then to Washington,

764
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 5: did you pursue your outdoor activities as a you know,

765
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,800
Speaker 5: kind of release, release from what you were doing to

766
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 5: have time to do that.

767
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:57,879
Speaker 4: Washington's great for I mean they got some good hunting there.

768
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 4: Grouse of elkhonta there, deer hunt, all those things. I

769
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 4: liked hunting grouse. That was fun. I mean, it wasn't

770
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 4: Kodiak where when I think when I when I got there,

771
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 4: I was really young, so I didn't start hunting right away.

772
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 4: But before I moved there, i'd lived for a short

773
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 4: time in Idaho, so you know, I started hunting with

774
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 4: my dad. When I could hold he would tell me,

775
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 4: when you're tall enough to hold on the belt loop

776
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 4: with your finger of my belt area on my jeans,

777
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:27,399
Speaker 4: you can come with me. So I was like, all right, pop.

778
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 4: So so I finally got to that point. It didn't

779
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 4: take long because I'm pretty taller guy, right, So I'd

780
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 4: hold onto the belt loop en roll with him. I

781
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 4: had this old US Army canvas backpack and uh, and

782
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 4: I'd have the lunches in there and a b begun

783
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 4: and be rolling around, and for years the story about

784
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,280
Speaker 4: a b begun. I thought I actually killed this chucker

785
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 4: one time with this BB gun, and I thought I'd

786
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,000
Speaker 4: heard my dad shoot too. But I was pretty young,

787
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 4: and I got this thing with my BB gun. It's

788
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 4: like forty yards away or something. My Dad's like, oh yeah,

789
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 4: you smoked it. Great. For years, I believed I made

790
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 4: this crazy shot. But as I got older, I realized

791
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 4: he shot that doug thing. Let me think, all these

792
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 4: years I shot that chucker. Yeah, I think staying involved

793
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,399
Speaker 4: in in in outdoor stuff. California's mostly quail. I dear

794
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 4: hunted a little bit, a lot of bird huntings, just

795
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 4: a little more accessible in time. You know, I'm so

796
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 4: busy down there.

797
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 5: Did you Did you ever come across roller pigeons? No that.

798
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 4: I know a lot of animals too.

799
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: I mean like it's street like, you know dudes that

800
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 1: are into street pigeons.

801
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:37,680
Speaker 4: Oh right, but ye whole I got you.

802
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 1: We were introduced. It's like pigeon fanciers Tyson Mike Tyson.

803
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, okay, yeah I didn't see I saw a

804
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 4: pigeons in the city, but uh not.

805
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:49,800
Speaker 1: These are dudes that keep pet pigeons.

806
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, pigeons, chickens. He'll be on calls and in the

807
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 4: inner city and chickens and will fighting chickens. Yeah yeah, yeah,

808
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,280
Speaker 4: running all over the place. The other crazy thing about

809
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 4: being down there, which was I always thought this was odd,

810
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,879
Speaker 4: And some guys that are listening to this that work

811
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 4: down there can relate. But when I get together with

812
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 4: the LAPD Southeast guys or some of these guys, we

813
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 4: have some fun or seventy seventh division. But they have

814
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 4: these dogs, man, and I don't I don't know a

815
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,400
Speaker 4: better term, so I hope this doesn't come off crazy.

816
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 4: But like we just call them ghetto dogs, like inner

817
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 4: city dogs, and they're just wild. But they know the city,

818
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,719
Speaker 4: like like I've literally washed a dog. Go up to

819
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 4: a major street, look both ways and cross like they

820
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 4: just know and they're out. They're all over the place.

821
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's wild. Or you'll see a.

822
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 4: Homeless guy, which you know, obviously I feel, you know,

823
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 4: I've got a hard for some of the homeless. But

824
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 4: cruising down with a shopping cart and about eight dogs

825
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 4: by him, huh, But they're season. There's season, vets man.

826
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 4: These dogs, I'm telling you, they just they know the city.

827
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:59,319
Speaker 4: They know, gunshots, I'm out, like I'm going, I'm going,

828
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:03,880
Speaker 4: it's just just wild. This is just wild. Different world, man,

829
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:04,959
Speaker 4: different world.

830
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 1: So walk me through how you went from police work

831
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 1: into the military and then how'd you become how'd you

832
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: become a reverend?

833
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a wild one.

834
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 3: Man.

835
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 4: I had to really saw. I had to soften up.

836
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:20,400
Speaker 4: Moving to Washington helped me help me kind of soften

837
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 4: and I glory to the Lord man. That's uh, I'll

838
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 4: just be bold about that. I had to I had

839
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 4: to slow down, soften up, and uh it was good

840
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 4: for me, yes, personally and family wise. But towards the

841
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 4: end of my career, I knew I wanted to be done.

842
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 4: As I got close to twenty, I want to be done.

843
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 4: And politics and garbage that goes on at some of

844
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:42,360
Speaker 4: these agencies, and it's still happening.

845
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 1: My heart.

846
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 4: I hear it all the time from guys. It's it's

847
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 4: unfortunate for these these uh officers and that are out

848
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 4: there just grinding, you know, working holidays, facing the stuff

849
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,560
Speaker 4: they face, especially the last you know, four years, just

850
00:45:56,640 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 4: the stuff they're having to deal with. But yeah, guy

851
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,959
Speaker 4: hands me a book and uh, it's called A Table

852
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 4: in My Presence written by Kerry Cash.

853
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 1: It's about a marine, A table in my presence, A

854
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:11,280
Speaker 1: table in thy presence.

855
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:15,680
Speaker 4: Right, it comes from a psalm and uh, navy chaplain

856
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:17,800
Speaker 4: a sign of the Marines first push into Iraq. And

857
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,840
Speaker 4: he just talks about his ministry to these these military

858
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,800
Speaker 4: folks and the dangers they faced, and and seeing some

859
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 4: of the miracles that that God did over there. And uh,

860
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 4: and we can we could talk a lot about some

861
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 4: of some of the stuff. I'm sure we'll get to that.

862
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 4: But it was amazing to me. And I was being

863
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 4: pulled in that direction. I was in seminary, working on

864
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 4: a graduate degree and just doing stuff in the church

865
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 4: and a lot of youth stuff. And man, it was

866
00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 4: just it was an amazing book. And uh and and

867
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 4: and he give it. He gives it to me. He says, hey, man,

868
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 4: I know you're thinking about going into a full time

869
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 4: ministry at some point. He goes, this might be a

870
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 4: good fit with your background. You know, you kind of

871
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 4: have this sort of sort of tactical side. Again, any

872
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,760
Speaker 4: guys have done more than me and gotten more awards

873
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 4: and all that. It's it's not about that. It just

874
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 4: his point was this might be a good fit in

875
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,319
Speaker 4: this that environment. And of course it was the height

876
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 4: of Iraq, A lot of stuff was going on, and

877
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 4: I thought, yeah, I don't know, maybe maybe so am

878
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:18,920
Speaker 4: I being called there? Right?

879
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 5: Like?

880
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 4: Do I have this this internal burning desire to go

881
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 4: serve in that environment? Well, I'm going to be separated

882
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 4: from my family right five kids, I'll be separated. Wife

883
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 4: won't be there at that point. Initially they were like

884
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 4: eighteen months with the Army of deployment with the two

885
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:36,840
Speaker 4: weeks of R and R. Then I went to twelve

886
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 4: with two weeks. Then it went to twelve three at

887
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 4: the mod platform nine in theater with no rn R.

888
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 4: So that was kind of the cycle. So you've got

889
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:51,320
Speaker 4: to be, you know, mentally tough against not it's not me,

890
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:54,240
Speaker 4: it's it's I think the Lord preparing you, preparing your family,

891
00:47:55,200 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 4: preparing your wife and kids for that separation, and and

892
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 4: and so I took it to her, and I don't

893
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 4: know the timeframe, a month or so after I've read

894
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 4: the book, and I said, hey, what do you think

895
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,360
Speaker 4: about this as we're you know, getting close here and

896
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 4: and and she said, no, no way, like you're going

897
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 4: to be gone, and I'm like, well, just you know,

898
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 4: pray about it and see. And so then about two

899
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 4: weeks later, I remember coming home with my motor and

900
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:30,080
Speaker 4: we rode motorcycles here around up there, police police motors

901
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,799
Speaker 4: in the rain and the whole deal. And I'd usually

902
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:34,959
Speaker 4: go up and get warm, take a bath or something,

903
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 4: you know, to heat up, and h and I went

904
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 4: upstairs in the bathroom. This is a true story, and

905
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 4: she's up there in tears, and I'm like, what's going on? Yeah,

906
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:52,840
Speaker 4: you guys, you give me emotional and she said this,

907
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 4: she said, Hey, if God wants you and a downrange

908
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 4: environment or wherever he's calling you to, he's got us

909
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:03,080
Speaker 4: here and we stand behind you and I support it.

910
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 4: And then that shocked me, you know, kind of rocked

911
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:14,399
Speaker 4: kind of rocked my world a little bit. And uh, yeah.

912
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 4: Then they didn't make it easy. You know, you've got

913
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 4: to have all this stuff to to go in as

914
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:23,920
Speaker 4: a chaplain right to serve in that way. You've got

915
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:27,440
Speaker 4: to be endorsed by a department of a Department of

916
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 4: Defense endorsing body. You've got to have so much ministry experience,

917
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,240
Speaker 4: you've got to be ordained, you've got to have your MDV.

918
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 4: You've got to you know, past your secret clearances, you've

919
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 4: got to be in physically fit, your medical stuff, you know,

920
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 4: all of those things. And and then you got to

921
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 4: get through base Officer Leader course, which is at Jackson,

922
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 4: South Carolina. So you've got a lot of that going on.

923
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 4: So I remember going to Maps and I had had

924
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 4: a back surgery. I had hurt my back doing some

925
00:49:55,200 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 4: jiu jitsu stuff and h yeah, and I was trying

926
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 4: to shrimp this guy off of me and blew a

927
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 4: disc so because I was tired of him pounding on

928
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 4: me and anyway, blew the disc out. That's a whole

929
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 4: nother story. But I had to get a waiver. So

930
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:16,319
Speaker 4: I remember going to Maps. I'm like the old guy

931
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 4: in there, right, like most Chappins are a little older

932
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 4: because you got to go through all the school and

933
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 4: you got to do all these things. But yeah, I'm

934
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:24,319
Speaker 4: the older guy in maps, in minder where I won't

935
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 4: run around in maps with all these young eighteen nineteen

936
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:28,919
Speaker 4: year old guys doing all this stuff, you know, duck

937
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 4: walk and all these different things. And and I get

938
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 4: to the end and everything went well, and he goes,

939
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:40,080
Speaker 4: he goes, hey, you gotta get a waiver. I can't

940
00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 4: pass you. And I'm like, I remember looking at this guy,

941
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:47,120
Speaker 4: super nice guy. I think he was about ninety nine

942
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 4: years old, but super nice guy. And and he goes

943
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 4: a guy. I'm like what, And I said, hey, man,

944
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 4: I just said, you don't understand, Sir. I said, God's called.

945
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 1: Me to do this.

946
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 4: I need to and he kind of looked puzzled, and

947
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,879
Speaker 4: I don't you know, you got to get a waiver.

948
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 4: So eventually I got the waiver and then deployed pretty

949
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 4: quick after that. I went to a calve squadron, Calvary's unit.

950
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 4: A lot of cool traditions in the calve, and I

951
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 4: was over there. And the funny story, it's not funny,

952
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 4: but cool. Part of the story is I went over

953
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:24,799
Speaker 4: there and my son, in the meantime, had joined right

954
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,400
Speaker 4: out of high school and he was also in the

955
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 4: same calve. He was in Charlie Troop and we're both

956
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 4: in Baghdad together for that whole time. So that was

957
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 4: a little that was a little wild.

958
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:41,240
Speaker 6: But how together.

959
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, same squadron. He was housed a little ways away

960
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 4: from me, not far. I was on Camp Liberty and

961
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 4: he was down more on the south kind of the

962
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 4: Victory Complex. The whole thing is Victory Complex. But I

963
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 4: don't know if Chili's been over there, but.

964
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:00,279
Speaker 1: He was.

965
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:05,320
Speaker 4: If I took a little I don't want to. I

966
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 4: gotta be careful how I say some of these terms

967
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 4: here on a podcast, But they gives these little vehicles

968
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 4: to drive, right what the locals would drive, you know

969
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 4: what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah, and uh so we

970
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:18,880
Speaker 4: called him, we had a certain name for him, but uh,

971
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 4: it would take me maybe thirty minutes to get over there,

972
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:25,879
Speaker 4: not too long to get to where he was. So yeah,

973
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 4: that was that was wild, wasn't it?

974
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:29,600
Speaker 3: Was it easy? Like I'm sure it wasn't.

975
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 2: It's probably a rhetorical question, but like separating, you know,

976
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 2: being a father in a combat environment, like having your

977
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 2: son like they're like and knowing probably being pretty well

978
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:42,720
Speaker 2: informed about like what's going on, like what your son's

979
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:44,440
Speaker 2: going through like versus like what you're going through, Like.

980
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 1: How is that like experience?

981
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:50,240
Speaker 4: Like yeah, yeah, it was, Uh it was different because

982
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 4: you know, so so I was. So it's we use

983
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 4: the term squadron in the cab, right, so in an

984
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:01,320
Speaker 4: infantry would be a battalion, right, And so you're the

985
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 4: only chaplain though, for that whole battalion or squadron. So

986
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:09,360
Speaker 4: on that deployment, we had about six hundred and something soldiers.

987
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 4: We weren't totally organic too, we weren't all calve. We

988
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 4: had a group from Nebraska to helped supplement us and

989
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,200
Speaker 4: some other folks. So you're the only chaplin for six

990
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:23,960
Speaker 4: hundred folks. But you know you got to care for

991
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:26,439
Speaker 4: all of them, right that that's the sheep that God

992
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 4: has said. Hey, here's the deal, Shade, I got this.

993
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:32,319
Speaker 4: This s ain't about you. It's not your deal, which

994
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 4: I had to learn the hard way after we lost

995
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:37,320
Speaker 4: a couple of guys right away. But you know this

996
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 4: is about my plan. You just go take care of them.

997
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:43,800
Speaker 4: You just go love on them, take care of your staff,

998
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 4: your commander, you know, advise them, do your religious area

999
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 4: analysis on on you know what what is as soon

1000
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 4: as it Shia and you work a little bit with

1001
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 4: the S two on some of that stuff. How do

1002
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 4: we deal with karans? Where's the Muslim burial ground? You know,

1003
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 4: you kind I can work through that part of it.

1004
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,880
Speaker 4: Advising the commander on the moral and ethical ramifications for decisions.

1005
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 4: He's gonna make or she's gonna make in that in

1006
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 4: in your in your ao, right, So you have that responsibility.

1007
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 4: But you also have a three pong responsibility, which is

1008
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 4: honor the dead, care for the wounded, and nurture of

1009
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 4: the living. So you've got that and or in the trust. Right,

1010
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:27,319
Speaker 4: we got six hundred soldiers. The worst the worst thing

1011
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:28,919
Speaker 4: I can hear when I go to when I would

1012
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 4: go back then when I was just the first attendant

1013
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 4: a captain is they get to a unit and you, hey,

1014
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 4: who is you know, I'm the new chaplain. Who was

1015
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:40,279
Speaker 4: your chaplain before they go I don't know. Okay, that's

1016
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:45,320
Speaker 4: the wrong answer or I don't really see him or

1017
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:49,839
Speaker 4: her wrong answer, right, So that means you don't as

1018
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:52,720
Speaker 4: a chaplain. I was probably because of my pride, my background,

1019
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 4: and just just the different way I thought it. The

1020
00:54:55,280 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 4: best way to operate was be with them, right, take

1021
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:03,680
Speaker 4: the similar risks, be with them. Get your butt out

1022
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 4: of your office. Don't need to read books all day, right.

1023
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:10,560
Speaker 4: I know you got cubs and bubs and update briefs

1024
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 4: and counselings and sometimes memorials and caring for the wounded.

1025
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 4: You got all that, but you need to be out

1026
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:22,880
Speaker 4: with the soldiers and that that's the place to be.

1027
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:27,319
Speaker 4: And I was willing to take a take some asscheans

1028
00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 4: to do that because you know, they lose you, and

1029
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:32,879
Speaker 4: I mean, you're a great target, right, it's a great

1030
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:34,719
Speaker 4: target for the enemy to take out the chaplain. He's

1031
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:39,440
Speaker 4: the kind of the spiritual even though it's not you

1032
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:42,480
Speaker 4: necessarily leading, it's it's God doing the work. But they

1033
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 4: see you as the spiritual leader. And you're you don't

1034
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:47,840
Speaker 4: have a gun, right, so you're going on all these missions.

1035
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:49,960
Speaker 4: You got an assistant, it's an actual mos that goes

1036
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,480
Speaker 4: with you. Religious fair specialists they call him now. Back

1037
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:56,280
Speaker 4: then it was chaplin assistants. So they're an enlisted person

1038
00:55:56,360 --> 00:56:00,279
Speaker 4: that's that's armed, that stays with you. But you know,

1039
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 4: you've you've got to cross on your uniform, you've got

1040
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:08,319
Speaker 4: a no gun, you got all the gear, you're soldier, right,

1041
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:11,720
Speaker 4: you're soldier first. But that's a that's a good target.

1042
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:15,359
Speaker 4: Take take him out, you know, especially.

1043
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:16,440
Speaker 3: Where come from?

1044
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:18,359
Speaker 6: Where's the decision to not be armed?

1045
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:21,279
Speaker 4: And need a convention thing? And it's been around a

1046
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 4: long term. I think Vietnam was I think the last

1047
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:25,360
Speaker 4: and I could be wrong here, but I think the

1048
00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 4: last war were they they gave you know, medics and

1049
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 4: chaplains guns. So yeah, no no weapon. So but that's

1050
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:38,800
Speaker 4: where you're in the trust, right, Be with the Be

1051
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:41,279
Speaker 4: with your folks, because if they don't know you and

1052
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 4: they don't trust you, they're not gonna come walking in

1053
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:46,880
Speaker 4: your office and and and tell you what's bugging them,

1054
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 4: or get the counts in the need or hey, you know,

1055
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 4: back home, my wife's leaving me because I've been gone

1056
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 4: and she's cheating on with so and so and so,

1057
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 4: or I messing around with this person, or you know,

1058
00:56:58,239 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 4: whatever is going on in their life, or I got

1059
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:04,320
Speaker 4: side ideations or you know, any of those things. You

1060
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 4: got to earn the trust, man, and the only way

1061
00:57:06,080 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 4: to do that is to get down in the trenches

1062
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:08,359
Speaker 4: with them.

1063
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 3: And so yeah, that's pretty common.

1064
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:13,239
Speaker 2: You know, in the eight years I spent, like I

1065
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 2: don't I don't remember a single chaplain's name, And but

1066
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 2: they would show up, like they would show up, like

1067
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:22,160
Speaker 2: when we had like suicides and like when we were

1068
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 2: in country and like you know, injuries, and then they

1069
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:26,919
Speaker 2: treated it like a like a check in the box.

1070
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:29,760
Speaker 2: Like it's more like, hey, you know, your commander asked

1071
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 2: me to come down here and talk to you guys.

1072
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 2: It's just like you're the last person I want to

1073
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:36,320
Speaker 2: talk to you, like just because I don't know you right,

1074
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 2: And I just find that like so like my I

1075
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 2: wouldn't say my experience with chaplains I have been negative,

1076
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 2: but I just it was I didn't know anything.

1077
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 4: Right or non existent right. And that's the and we listen,

1078
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 4: we got many many good ones out there, many great

1079
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:54,400
Speaker 4: ones totally. But you know, to me, you want to

1080
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 4: earn your your bones or your stripes or whatever you

1081
00:57:57,800 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 4: want to call it, then you need to get out

1082
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 4: of your off us and get out on missions with

1083
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:06,920
Speaker 4: them and spend time with them. And uh yeah, that's

1084
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:09,600
Speaker 4: that's even if even if you know, sometimes the commander

1085
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:12,120
Speaker 4: would be I had some great commanders. One of them's

1086
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 4: you know, still in is a two star now and

1087
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:18,200
Speaker 4: just an awesome individual. Use an O five at the time,

1088
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:21,320
Speaker 4: and uh, you know, I'd take a I'd take a

1089
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 4: whipping from it from time to time, especially if you

1090
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:26,240
Speaker 4: got if I got stuck in Mama Dio or you know,

1091
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:28,440
Speaker 4: fall loos or something because of the red air, you know,

1092
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 4: and he's like, hey, you need to get back here.

1093
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm stuck. You know, I can't. I can't

1094
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 4: a convoy ain't ain't rolling. But that that's where you're

1095
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 4: in your trust. And then then all of a sudden,

1096
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 4: you're in your offices. You keep going, uh as, you're

1097
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 4: going on your in your in your tour, and you

1098
00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 4: get there in the morning and you you needn't sleep much.

1099
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:49,720
Speaker 4: I mean, I'd be up till midnight one and then

1100
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:53,400
Speaker 4: you're up at four or whatever. But go to your

1101
00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 4: your update briefs and you know, go to your your

1102
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 4: sinks and stuff like that. Then you get to your

1103
00:58:57,800 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 4: office and there's eight people lined up outside your door.

1104
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 4: You know, that's when you know, Okay, it's starting to work.

1105
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 4: The trust is coming right now. What will those eight

1106
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:09,400
Speaker 4: people be there for? Oh, a variety of things. Some

1107
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:14,960
Speaker 4: suicidal ideations, some my girlfriend's breaking up with me, some divorce,

1108
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 4: some grandpa's sick, mom sick, you know, the similar things

1109
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:22,600
Speaker 4: that you'd see here, but it just gets heightened, it

1110
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:27,720
Speaker 4: gets intense, intensified being over there. Sometimes it could be

1111
00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:31,480
Speaker 4: they'd lost, you know, a friend, you had a ka

1112
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 4: and they want to work through that. We have special

1113
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 4: things we do for that similar to what we do

1114
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 4: up here, which are like a TAMES event or traumatic

1115
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:41,520
Speaker 4: event management event, where we ask certain questions, give everybody

1116
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 4: a chance to kind of talk through what they saw

1117
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 4: or how they feel. It's not I don't run them

1118
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 4: like a big, warm, fuzzy Kumbaya thing, but it's a

1119
00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 4: good time to sit down and just let some stuff out.

1120
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:53,320
Speaker 4: You don't have to talk if you don't want to.

1121
00:59:53,960 --> 00:59:58,720
Speaker 4: We used to calm critical incident debriefs. So yeah, it

1122
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 4: could be a variety of variety of things, chain of

1123
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:05,600
Speaker 4: command issues, you know, what, what whatever? I dealt with

1124
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:10,840
Speaker 4: so many, I mean hundreds and hundreds of counseling sessions

1125
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:15,880
Speaker 4: on on both deployments. But my first one, that that

1126
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 4: one had, that one had a lot, a lot of stress.

1127
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:21,560
Speaker 1: You know, did you go into that work knowing that

1128
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 1: that I guess not knowing, but had it already? Was

1129
01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 1: it already common knowledge at that time that the wars

1130
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:34,920
Speaker 1: in Iraq and Afghanistan we're going to spin off this

1131
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:40,480
Speaker 1: generation of of soldiers with like extraordinarily high suicide rates.

1132
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 3: Was that?

1133
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 1: Was that? Has that always been true of war? I

1134
01:00:46,440 --> 01:00:47,960
Speaker 1: think it's gotten worse.

1135
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:52,080
Speaker 4: You know, there there was a lot when I was

1136
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 4: when I was in on my first first deployment, and

1137
01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:57,200
Speaker 4: then when I went on active duty up at Joint

1138
01:00:57,240 --> 01:01:01,920
Speaker 4: Base Lewis McCord, similar, similar, It was just seemed to

1139
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:03,760
Speaker 4: kind of continue to get increase. I mean, we're a

1140
01:01:04,040 --> 01:01:07,160
Speaker 4: war a long time, you know, And I think that

1141
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:08,440
Speaker 4: contributed to it.

1142
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:11,280
Speaker 1: Like what what what do you feel?

1143
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:11,400
Speaker 5: Is?

1144
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 3: Like?

1145
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:12,280
Speaker 1: What is going on?

1146
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 4: Oh man? Uh? Yeah? Again, you know, Chilli and I

1147
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 4: could have this conversation and and and all of us

1148
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 4: off off my care, but uh, I think there is

1149
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 4: some generational things that could be going on. I know,

1150
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:32,720
Speaker 4: we do seem to have quite a few that are

1151
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:34,880
Speaker 4: currently happening. And again I'm just speaking up from my

1152
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 4: own personal opinion. I'm not speaking on behalf of the

1153
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:40,200
Speaker 4: army at all here, but from what I see in

1154
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:43,560
Speaker 4: my lane, we we do get quite a few that

1155
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:48,960
Speaker 4: are not related to combat experience. And that's a puzzling factor.

1156
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 4: Is it Is it contributing factors that they had prior.

1157
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:54,400
Speaker 1: To joining the military.

1158
01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:58,280
Speaker 4: Is it just the inability with some of the newer

1159
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 4: generation to cope with stress us and cope with embracing

1160
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 4: the suck factors?

1161
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 5: You know? Is it?

1162
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 4: Is it some of that, and I don't think we've

1163
01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 4: really put our finger on it. The definitely, uh, you

1164
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 4: know a lot of the combat related stuff because you

1165
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 4: think about this. Man, here, here's here's the way to

1166
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 4: look at it. So I remember coming home on I

1167
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 4: was on leave for my first I think it was

1168
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:30,560
Speaker 4: my first one. And I was at a Starbucks and

1169
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:34,080
Speaker 4: in the US, in the US, so I'm home for

1170
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:37,600
Speaker 4: like two weeks. I go into Starbucks and I had

1171
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:40,040
Speaker 4: just seen you know, all this different, all this all

1172
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 4: these all this stuff, lost a couple of guys and

1173
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 4: and uh wounded, you know, kids eating trash, just different environments,

1174
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 4: third world stuff. Well, you're in a Starbucks and the

1175
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 4: lady in front of me is blocking the line and

1176
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:56,200
Speaker 4: complaining about her caramel on her latte, right, and you're

1177
01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 4: kind of gone, and and and Chile. I'm sure you're

1178
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:02,920
Speaker 4: kind of get in your mind. Okay, is this this

1179
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:07,240
Speaker 4: is really happening? Yeah. I just came and watched all

1180
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:09,600
Speaker 4: this stuff. And here we are in America, spoiled again.

1181
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:12,200
Speaker 4: Whatever we want. We got menus for everything. You can

1182
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:15,960
Speaker 4: choose whatever you want. A lot of stuff's free depending

1183
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:19,160
Speaker 4: on the programs, and you know, and I just came

1184
01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:21,120
Speaker 4: from a place where they're fighting on the street to

1185
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:23,440
Speaker 4: dig out of a trash pile on the side of

1186
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:27,800
Speaker 4: the road, and they're trying to kill each other, and

1187
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:30,480
Speaker 4: you know there's a war going on, and you're complaining

1188
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:33,680
Speaker 4: that you want more caramel on your lotte. And I

1189
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:37,640
Speaker 4: just remember that hit me weird, like like I'm like, okay,

1190
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:41,640
Speaker 4: do I does my flesh take over and the chaplain

1191
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:43,640
Speaker 4: go dark here and snatch this lady up and move

1192
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 4: out of the wide or do I just you know,

1193
01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:49,800
Speaker 4: so I took some deep breaths and uh, or I

1194
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:52,280
Speaker 4: went to get a haircut, same time, same time I

1195
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:54,640
Speaker 4: was home and and the lady goes, oh, are you

1196
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:56,080
Speaker 4: in the military? Yeah, I was just home for a

1197
01:03:56,120 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 4: couple of weeks, so I didn't know there was I

1198
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:02,320
Speaker 4: didn't know we were still fighting over there, Right, so

1199
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:07,840
Speaker 4: you kind of go to a ten like really, well,

1200
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:09,960
Speaker 4: then you come home. So let's say you take the hours,

1201
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:12,160
Speaker 4: young young guy, right, the young enlisted dude, they make

1202
01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:14,800
Speaker 4: the they make the military work. The enlisted one hundred percent,

1203
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:17,600
Speaker 4: I'll say that right at the top. And they deserve

1204
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:19,800
Speaker 4: a lot more than what they get awards, wise and

1205
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:24,160
Speaker 4: everything else. These youngsters let's take guard or reserve. Let's

1206
01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:26,920
Speaker 4: take guard, all guards, all combat oriented units. Right, they

1207
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 4: supplement the active force. Fifty of the component in the

1208
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:36,680
Speaker 4: in the army at least is guarden reserve. So they're

1209
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:41,000
Speaker 4: working at McDonald's. Let's say they join the guard, they

1210
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:42,920
Speaker 4: go to an infantry unit or caveoun And now he's

1211
01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:44,680
Speaker 4: on a fifty cal. He's rolling in an m wrap

1212
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:49,600
Speaker 4: down some highway in Iraq, Afghanistan. He does his job.

1213
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 4: I don't know, maybe he smokes, maybe he's got a

1214
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:54,320
Speaker 4: smoke some bag. I don't know, but he's he's over there,

1215
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:55,840
Speaker 4: he's embracing the suck. He's a part of it. He's

1216
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:57,840
Speaker 4: doing his party, serving his country. And he comes back

1217
01:04:57,880 --> 01:05:01,560
Speaker 4: a nice back at McDonald's. Like a month after he

1218
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:05,920
Speaker 4: gets home and someone comes in it's complaining about you

1219
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:09,800
Speaker 4: need to make burgers faster. I'm not saying he doesn't

1220
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:12,480
Speaker 4: need to do that, but he just got out of

1221
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:16,000
Speaker 4: a he was just operating a fifty for freaking you know,

1222
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:19,160
Speaker 4: nine months or whatever. And that's the hard part. It's

1223
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:20,320
Speaker 4: that reintegration, you know.

1224
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:25,720
Speaker 2: I think, like to for your question earlier, like why

1225
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:28,640
Speaker 2: does that happen? Like again, personally from like what I've

1226
01:05:28,720 --> 01:05:31,320
Speaker 2: noticed in like suicide rates. I think it's just like

1227
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:33,800
Speaker 2: lack of purpose. You go from such a high to

1228
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:37,080
Speaker 2: such a low, and like in such a dramatic way.

1229
01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:42,680
Speaker 2: Like I mean, similarly, it's like when I got back,

1230
01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:46,960
Speaker 2: like we flew out of Afghanistan, we're in.

1231
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:48,280
Speaker 4: Kuwait for.

1232
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:52,120
Speaker 3: A week and a half, two weeks almost, and.

1233
01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:54,720
Speaker 2: Kuwait is still I don't I don't know if they

1234
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:56,960
Speaker 2: considered it a combat environment, but it was like it

1235
01:05:57,080 --> 01:05:58,880
Speaker 2: was like a hot there was hostiles around there.

1236
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:01,720
Speaker 3: But like they add that base in Kuwait.

1237
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:04,640
Speaker 2: I think it was a I can't I want all

1238
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:07,040
Speaker 2: yash reif that sounds familiar, I don't know. I can't

1239
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:10,040
Speaker 2: remember what the base is called. But there was like

1240
01:06:10,120 --> 01:06:13,320
Speaker 2: a there was a swimming pool there, and then there

1241
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:17,280
Speaker 2: was there is like a Starbucks, but it wasn't like

1242
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:19,120
Speaker 2: a Starbucks, and like you had all these army guys

1243
01:06:19,160 --> 01:06:22,640
Speaker 2: like rolling around just like have It's like completely oblivious,

1244
01:06:22,680 --> 01:06:25,960
Speaker 2: and then you fly out and then you know it's

1245
01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:29,560
Speaker 2: nighttime and you wake up and you're in Cherry Point,

1246
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:32,400
Speaker 2: North Carolina, and you're rolling through the gates and you're

1247
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:35,600
Speaker 2: like you just you're back in what we call Garrison

1248
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:37,600
Speaker 2: and then you're like, oh.

1249
01:06:37,520 --> 01:06:38,920
Speaker 3: It's so good to be home. And then like you

1250
01:06:39,040 --> 01:06:40,280
Speaker 3: go to a cookout or to.

1251
01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:43,880
Speaker 2: A McDonald's, and then some heifers just like bitching about

1252
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:47,640
Speaker 2: her her burger and you're just like, what is going

1253
01:06:47,720 --> 01:06:48,320
Speaker 2: on right now?

1254
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:51,280
Speaker 3: And like it just makes it makes it makes you

1255
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:52,040
Speaker 3: like irritable.

1256
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:54,080
Speaker 2: And then like I think that stems into like you

1257
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:58,080
Speaker 2: just you have a lack of one responsibility. You don't

1258
01:06:58,120 --> 01:07:01,160
Speaker 2: feel like you matter, and like when a lot of

1259
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:05,680
Speaker 2: guys get out And maybe this isn't directly related to combat.

1260
01:07:05,720 --> 01:07:08,200
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people get this way from

1261
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:10,520
Speaker 2: just doing their day to day job stateside as well.

1262
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:13,480
Speaker 4: But yeah, you just don't have a.

1263
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:19,120
Speaker 2: Like a like a calling, like you're not doing what

1264
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:21,479
Speaker 2: you're what you kind of like initially may have wanted

1265
01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:25,440
Speaker 2: to do. Yeah, And then and that's just like you know,

1266
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:28,240
Speaker 2: just a mental down spiral.

1267
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:31,000
Speaker 6: You feel like they give you a heads up as

1268
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:34,040
Speaker 6: to this because it's not like this is something new, right, No,

1269
01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:38,080
Speaker 6: they wrote songs about it in the sixties. Yeah, Like

1270
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:40,040
Speaker 6: did they give you a heads up at all? Like

1271
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:40,760
Speaker 6: be prepared?

1272
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:44,520
Speaker 2: They they kind of tell you about like the culture shock,

1273
01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:45,440
Speaker 2: and like I wouldn't say.

1274
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:46,640
Speaker 3: It's like a formal setting.

1275
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:48,760
Speaker 2: Like it's like if you have your your old timers

1276
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 2: and like your your battle tested dudes that have did

1277
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 2: a few pumps, like they kind of like they'll they'll

1278
01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:56,280
Speaker 2: tell you about it.

1279
01:07:56,920 --> 01:08:00,120
Speaker 3: And like my brother, uh, he was deployed.

1280
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:03,000
Speaker 2: With a unit called Turber Time Shit Marines saying in

1281
01:08:03,040 --> 01:08:07,360
Speaker 2: Afghanistan twenty ten eleven and they got I think they

1282
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:09,240
Speaker 2: get they got messed up like this unit did, like

1283
01:08:09,280 --> 01:08:10,200
Speaker 2: they lost a lot of people.

1284
01:08:11,200 --> 01:08:13,840
Speaker 3: And so but when I joined, I've I had a

1285
01:08:13,840 --> 01:08:18,720
Speaker 3: lot of his friends like kind of like mentor me.

1286
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:20,880
Speaker 2: And when I told a few of them like hey,

1287
01:08:21,000 --> 01:08:24,599
Speaker 2: like I'm doing a pump, They're like, hey, like everything's

1288
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:26,920
Speaker 2: gonna be fine, like they coached you and they and

1289
01:08:26,960 --> 01:08:29,200
Speaker 2: then one guy I remember, I won't say his name

1290
01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:30,680
Speaker 2: because I know he listens to the show and he

1291
01:08:30,760 --> 01:08:34,800
Speaker 2: doesn't want to be spotlighted, but uh, he's just like listen, man,

1292
01:08:34,880 --> 01:08:38,400
Speaker 2: it's gonna be it's gonna be like really hard, like

1293
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:40,840
Speaker 2: when you get back, like you're gonna be around a

1294
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:44,080
Speaker 2: lot of people that like don't understand, and they like

1295
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:46,559
Speaker 2: they're gonna ask questions and no matter what you tell them,

1296
01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:48,400
Speaker 2: no matter how long you spend telling them that, like

1297
01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:49,080
Speaker 2: they're just not.

1298
01:08:49,160 --> 01:08:50,320
Speaker 3: Gonna they're not gonna get it.

1299
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:53,760
Speaker 4: And he's like you just gotta like roll with it.

1300
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:58,479
Speaker 2: And so like in a way, yeah, people will tell you,

1301
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:03,639
Speaker 2: but not the not the army or the Marines themselves.

1302
01:09:04,240 --> 01:09:09,639
Speaker 2: Like yeah, like they they treated as I mean from

1303
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:12,320
Speaker 2: what I noticed, like they'll they're like when you when

1304
01:09:12,360 --> 01:09:13,600
Speaker 2: you get brought back, you have to do like a

1305
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:15,760
Speaker 2: bunch of debriefing. So like before we could, like when

1306
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:18,519
Speaker 2: we got back stateside, before we could go home, we

1307
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:21,840
Speaker 2: had to go through like classes and like we there's

1308
01:09:21,880 --> 01:09:24,400
Speaker 2: like mental tests and like computer tests to make sure

1309
01:09:24,439 --> 01:09:24,840
Speaker 2: like you don't have.

1310
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:25,600
Speaker 3: Any tv I S.

1311
01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:29,160
Speaker 2: I think we ended up talking to the chef Traumatic

1312
01:09:29,200 --> 01:09:31,800
Speaker 2: Brain injuries, so like you took a test. We took

1313
01:09:31,840 --> 01:09:34,960
Speaker 2: a test before we left, and then like when we

1314
01:09:35,080 --> 01:09:37,160
Speaker 2: got back, we took the exact same test and they're

1315
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:39,880
Speaker 2: like compared results and just to see if we were

1316
01:09:40,800 --> 01:09:42,799
Speaker 2: like copstetic and and everything was kosher.

1317
01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:49,840
Speaker 3: So we did that. We talked to a chaps chats

1318
01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:53,840
Speaker 3: we always call them chats, not to be mistaken for.

1319
01:09:55,479 --> 01:09:56,840
Speaker 4: Not not leather chats.

1320
01:09:56,920 --> 01:09:59,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, but uh but yeah, we were like and then

1321
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:02,280
Speaker 2: they we would you know, there was counselors and stuff too,

1322
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:06,200
Speaker 2: and but like it was more like how you doing good?

1323
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:08,479
Speaker 3: Like do you feel like you want to?

1324
01:10:09,920 --> 01:10:12,400
Speaker 2: Like they kind of I feel like the military deals

1325
01:10:12,439 --> 01:10:14,880
Speaker 2: in extremes a lot. Do you feel like you need

1326
01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:18,560
Speaker 2: you want to kill somebody? And like no, and like

1327
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 2: so they kind of prepare you the way.

1328
01:10:21,320 --> 01:10:25,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're just like you're going to say, They're like, yeah,

1329
01:10:25,240 --> 01:10:26,880
Speaker 3: like do you feel like you have PTSD?

1330
01:10:27,200 --> 01:10:29,360
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I don't know, I've never done this before,

1331
01:10:29,479 --> 01:10:31,080
Speaker 2: Like I don't know what that means and or what

1332
01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:32,400
Speaker 2: that looks like for myself.

1333
01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:35,880
Speaker 3: And so they kind of do it. But it's more

1334
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:39,719
Speaker 3: of like a military has to do their due diligence

1335
01:10:39,800 --> 01:10:41,519
Speaker 3: so we don't get into trouble kind of thing. And

1336
01:10:41,600 --> 01:10:43,400
Speaker 3: I and that's that's what it felt like. That's what

1337
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:44,800
Speaker 3: it felt like. I'm not saying that's what they're doing.

1338
01:10:44,880 --> 01:10:46,960
Speaker 3: I'm just saying like that's kind of how it felt.

1339
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:50,599
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, we do demo stuff in classes

1340
01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:53,280
Speaker 4: like like Chili's talking about and and a lot of

1341
01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:55,360
Speaker 4: that stuff. You'll check out medically and do do a

1342
01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:57,559
Speaker 4: bunch of those things. But I don't I don't think

1343
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:00,920
Speaker 4: that there's still the shock factor. You know, you haven't

1344
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:04,120
Speaker 4: paid bills, right, you haven't driven a regular car or

1345
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:06,880
Speaker 4: your car. I mean, if you were driving something it

1346
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:09,559
Speaker 4: was an armored vehicle or one of those other vehicles

1347
01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:11,800
Speaker 4: we were talking about earlier. Or you've been flying around

1348
01:11:11,800 --> 01:11:14,760
Speaker 4: a helicopter and now all of a sudden you're back

1349
01:11:15,320 --> 01:11:17,120
Speaker 4: and you know over over there, you don't want to

1350
01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:19,800
Speaker 4: be stuck in traffic. Right, you're sitting duck. There's all

1351
01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:23,479
Speaker 4: these different things, or you're driving super fast and swerving

1352
01:11:23,520 --> 01:11:26,040
Speaker 4: on some roads and you know, making sure they're not

1353
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:28,880
Speaker 4: They used to throw these things off the bridges. I

1354
01:11:28,920 --> 01:11:31,280
Speaker 4: can't remember if they are arcade threes or something, these

1355
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:35,000
Speaker 4: these hand grenades or ied stuff. So you know you're

1356
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:36,880
Speaker 4: staying in certain sides of land all those things. And

1357
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:41,560
Speaker 4: now you're on the freeway and you're sitting traffic and

1358
01:11:41,680 --> 01:11:44,120
Speaker 4: you're like trying to you know, just a little little

1359
01:11:44,160 --> 01:11:46,400
Speaker 4: things like that, you know, just trying to digest.

1360
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:48,960
Speaker 2: That your combat mindset does not go away, like as

1361
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:51,240
Speaker 2: soon as your back inside, Like you're looking at everything

1362
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:54,240
Speaker 2: as like a thread, right, and it doesn't.

1363
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:56,000
Speaker 4: Matter what your mos was. It just if you were

1364
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:57,720
Speaker 4: out there on missions and you were doing stuff it

1365
01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:03,719
Speaker 4: you know, even from a childing perspective, it's it's difficult

1366
01:12:03,880 --> 01:12:07,120
Speaker 4: getting back and as a dad, right, you haven't disciplined

1367
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:09,840
Speaker 4: the kids. The wife has kind of set that all

1368
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:11,880
Speaker 4: up and got a routine, and now you're coming into

1369
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:14,000
Speaker 4: that routine and you're kind of blowing it up now, right,

1370
01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:17,400
Speaker 4: you're kind of the new guy in the house, and

1371
01:12:17,720 --> 01:12:19,479
Speaker 4: you don't know what they've been through the whole time

1372
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:22,320
Speaker 4: you've been gone. And sometimes then you find out later,

1373
01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:25,320
Speaker 4: which is often upsetting about maybe they cried at night

1374
01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:28,200
Speaker 4: worried about you or this, but the wife kept that

1375
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:30,920
Speaker 4: from you because you didn't need that when you were

1376
01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:35,320
Speaker 4: down range. There's all those little nuances intimacy, right, you

1377
01:12:35,439 --> 01:12:38,680
Speaker 4: haven't been intimate for a year, so you've got to

1378
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:40,599
Speaker 4: earn all these things. You've got to work your way

1379
01:12:40,680 --> 01:12:43,280
Speaker 4: back into this and and that reintegration process can be

1380
01:12:43,479 --> 01:12:46,920
Speaker 4: can be difficult. So that's a contributing factor for sure

1381
01:12:48,040 --> 01:12:50,439
Speaker 4: with some of the stuff. And then and then it's hard, right,

1382
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:56,439
Speaker 4: it's hard losing your your friends and and your life changes.

1383
01:12:56,520 --> 01:13:00,439
Speaker 4: I think there's something I'll say it like this, I

1384
01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:02,800
Speaker 4: think there's something that happens when you go to a

1385
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:06,760
Speaker 4: combat zone. Regardless of whether you were a seal or

1386
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:11,160
Speaker 4: an s F or infantry or whatever, whatever your your

1387
01:13:11,280 --> 01:13:14,600
Speaker 4: job was or your unit was, there's something that is

1388
01:13:14,680 --> 01:13:17,640
Speaker 4: taken away from you. And I'm sure there's probably some

1389
01:13:17,720 --> 01:13:20,000
Speaker 4: guys that might disagree with me, but there is something

1390
01:13:20,080 --> 01:13:24,040
Speaker 4: that changes in you. And then I think you start

1391
01:13:24,120 --> 01:13:26,880
Speaker 4: to spend your time trying to get that back. And

1392
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:31,400
Speaker 4: I don't know if that's a sense of innocence, you know,

1393
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:34,439
Speaker 4: you just the world is different, right, and then you

1394
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:37,799
Speaker 4: become comfortable over there. You've learned how to kind of survive,

1395
01:13:37,960 --> 01:13:41,400
Speaker 4: and you're comfortable and you're you're in that environment. It's

1396
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:44,120
Speaker 4: snake especially Afghanistan. I was in cobble in it just

1397
01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:46,040
Speaker 4: it's smell. The air is real bad, not good for you.

1398
01:13:46,200 --> 01:13:48,439
Speaker 4: Why guys are getting all this burn pit stuff both

1399
01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:52,760
Speaker 4: both both both countries Iraq as well. But little kids

1400
01:13:52,840 --> 01:13:55,599
Speaker 4: are you're driving by and they're they're doing this. They

1401
01:13:55,600 --> 01:13:58,680
Speaker 4: don't want you there. They're throwing rocks at the at

1402
01:13:58,720 --> 01:14:01,439
Speaker 4: the you know, a big hunk of concrete hitting the

1403
01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:05,479
Speaker 4: armored vehicle sounds like you know it's a problem. Uh oh,

1404
01:14:07,360 --> 01:14:09,280
Speaker 4: you know, different things like that. And now all of

1405
01:14:09,280 --> 01:14:12,280
Speaker 4: a sudden, you're you're back and you watch just the

1406
01:14:13,120 --> 01:14:17,080
Speaker 4: two year olds, you know, no diaper, no nothing, eating

1407
01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:21,880
Speaker 4: old rotten food out of the street, and that just

1408
01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:24,120
Speaker 4: it's so there's I don't know, there's just something that

1409
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:28,720
Speaker 4: you know, I think you, I think you lose and

1410
01:14:28,840 --> 01:14:32,280
Speaker 4: that you're kind of constantly trying to get that back.

1411
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:36,280
Speaker 4: Something changes in you. And I think the other thing

1412
01:14:36,320 --> 01:14:39,479
Speaker 4: that happens a lot with families, in particular married couples

1413
01:14:39,600 --> 01:14:43,200
Speaker 4: or or families. As you get back and you you

1414
01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:45,400
Speaker 4: think you're the same, Right, you're the same dude. You're

1415
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:48,160
Speaker 4: you're you're happy to be home, you're thankful, you're blessed,

1416
01:14:48,160 --> 01:14:51,120
Speaker 4: you're all those things. And then maybe someone in your

1417
01:14:51,160 --> 01:14:54,639
Speaker 4: family or a relative or a friend says, man, you've changed.

1418
01:14:56,200 --> 01:14:59,040
Speaker 4: Well that's not what you want to hear, right, So

1419
01:14:59,200 --> 01:15:00,680
Speaker 4: it kind of hits you in the guy like, wait

1420
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:02,840
Speaker 4: a second, what do you mean I've changed? What do

1421
01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:05,800
Speaker 4: you mean by that? And so then that starts as cycle.

1422
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:07,439
Speaker 4: So there's a lot, I think a lot of factors.

1423
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:10,479
Speaker 4: That's why I think it's good. I mean, you gotta talk,

1424
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:13,439
Speaker 4: you got to get outside, you've got to do those things,

1425
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:18,160
Speaker 4: and uh, you know, you know I wouldn't have said

1426
01:15:18,160 --> 01:15:21,680
Speaker 4: this to you twenty some years ago. You know, I

1427
01:15:21,880 --> 01:15:26,639
Speaker 4: was more of a hardened you know, street cup from

1428
01:15:27,439 --> 01:15:29,880
Speaker 4: who who learned how to do that job in a

1429
01:15:30,320 --> 01:15:33,479
Speaker 4: bad place, in a bad time. And I wouldn't have said,

1430
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:37,280
Speaker 4: you don't need counseling whatever, go to this praph. Sure,

1431
01:15:37,439 --> 01:15:38,760
Speaker 4: I don't want to talk. I don't want to go

1432
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:42,360
Speaker 4: there and hold hands and all this stuff. But I'll

1433
01:15:42,360 --> 01:15:44,320
Speaker 4: tell you what, man, I get a lot of those

1434
01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:47,640
Speaker 4: dudes coming through the door, the toughest guys from and

1435
01:15:48,120 --> 01:15:49,840
Speaker 4: I'm telling you I won't name names, but I mean

1436
01:15:49,920 --> 01:15:52,280
Speaker 4: guys have been through CQB shootings within a few months

1437
01:15:52,320 --> 01:15:53,000
Speaker 4: of coming up there.

1438
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:53,760
Speaker 1: What's that mean?

1439
01:15:54,400 --> 01:15:58,720
Speaker 4: You know, close quarter contact shot type stuff, swat call

1440
01:15:58,760 --> 01:16:00,640
Speaker 4: outs where they've been shot. I had a guy up

1441
01:16:00,640 --> 01:16:04,200
Speaker 4: shot four times. I mean, all kinds of guys and

1442
01:16:04,280 --> 01:16:09,880
Speaker 4: some tough stuff. And uh, and they they kind of

1443
01:16:09,960 --> 01:16:11,800
Speaker 4: have that wall up. I get it. I was that

1444
01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:14,600
Speaker 4: way that, you know, coming in and they don't know

1445
01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:16,280
Speaker 4: what we're gonna talk about, they don't know who I am.

1446
01:16:16,360 --> 01:16:19,200
Speaker 4: They're trying to sniff it out. I told Krinn for

1447
01:16:19,360 --> 01:16:21,720
Speaker 4: lack of a better term just talking straight here. It's

1448
01:16:21,800 --> 01:16:23,439
Speaker 4: kind of like a couple of pit bulls sort of

1449
01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:25,919
Speaker 4: sniffing each other's butts, trying to figure out who's dominant,

1450
01:16:25,920 --> 01:16:29,439
Speaker 4: who's not. You know, that whole thing goes on. But

1451
01:16:29,520 --> 01:16:31,840
Speaker 4: then they realize, man, look, we're we're just here to

1452
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:34,519
Speaker 4: love you. Man, We're here to give you something for

1453
01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:37,439
Speaker 4: your toolbox. We're gonna give you an injection of some

1454
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:40,040
Speaker 4: some some biblical stuff. You're gonna get that. I'm not

1455
01:16:40,080 --> 01:16:41,640
Speaker 4: gonna proselyze to you. I'm not gonna beat you over

1456
01:16:41,680 --> 01:16:42,960
Speaker 4: the head with it, just like we don't do in

1457
01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:45,719
Speaker 4: the army. I'm not We're not doing that. We're gonna

1458
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:48,720
Speaker 4: give you something that that that means more than just

1459
01:16:49,040 --> 01:16:51,800
Speaker 4: some of the other frivolous stuff that that's out there

1460
01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:54,559
Speaker 4: in the world and in life. Right We're we're gonna

1461
01:16:54,600 --> 01:16:56,599
Speaker 4: that's what That's what we're gonna do, and we're gonna

1462
01:16:56,640 --> 01:17:00,519
Speaker 4: dig in whenever you're ready. And I'm telling you one

1463
01:17:00,600 --> 01:17:04,720
Speaker 4: hundred percent of the time, by Saturday Sunday, you know,

1464
01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:07,479
Speaker 4: tears are shed, guys are opening up, guys are talking.

1465
01:17:07,880 --> 01:17:09,479
Speaker 4: But you gotta have the right mix of people there.

1466
01:17:09,479 --> 01:17:11,240
Speaker 4: You gotta have everybody there has got to have some

1467
01:17:11,400 --> 01:17:14,519
Speaker 4: legit put in their work, right, so there's that respect

1468
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:17,280
Speaker 4: level we we we just call it putting in work

1469
01:17:19,600 --> 01:17:22,320
Speaker 4: and earning their trust and making sure it's a safe

1470
01:17:22,360 --> 01:17:23,040
Speaker 4: place to talk.

1471
01:17:23,280 --> 01:17:26,560
Speaker 1: Like the other guys want to you know, can you

1472
01:17:26,600 --> 01:17:28,840
Speaker 1: hold can you hold that thought? Mix you something I

1473
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:32,519
Speaker 1: want to ask before your specific work. Something I'm not

1474
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:38,599
Speaker 1: clear on. When I was laying we were talking about

1475
01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:43,640
Speaker 1: the suicide. Yeah, people having troubles reintegrating. I know just

1476
01:17:43,720 --> 01:17:46,920
Speaker 1: from being friends with you that that and you've mentioned it.

1477
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:48,880
Speaker 1: You do a lot of work with police as well,

1478
01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:53,320
Speaker 1: another first responders. Give me the give me the version

1479
01:17:53,439 --> 01:17:59,720
Speaker 1: that is happening with cops who do go home every night,

1480
01:18:00,200 --> 01:18:02,280
Speaker 1: or they go home every few nights whatever, Like what

1481
01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:04,439
Speaker 1: is that? What is that version? Because I remember a

1482
01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:07,120
Speaker 1: buddy mine, not even a cop, a buddy mine, Greg,

1483
01:18:07,200 --> 01:18:08,120
Speaker 1: who's a firefighter.

1484
01:18:09,120 --> 01:18:09,640
Speaker 4: He told me.

1485
01:18:11,720 --> 01:18:14,439
Speaker 1: A firefighter has a greater chance of dying by suicide

1486
01:18:14,439 --> 01:18:15,519
Speaker 1: than he has a dying in a fire.

1487
01:18:15,800 --> 01:18:16,040
Speaker 4: YEP.

1488
01:18:17,200 --> 01:18:19,880
Speaker 1: I also said to Greg one time, kind of dumb

1489
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:21,639
Speaker 1: like question. I'm sure he hates here, and I said,

1490
01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:25,559
Speaker 1: how many dead people have you dealt with? He said,

1491
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:28,680
Speaker 1: what do you mean it's like how many how many

1492
01:18:28,840 --> 01:18:33,840
Speaker 1: human bodies have you interacted with? He goes hundreds. Right,

1493
01:18:34,760 --> 01:18:37,160
Speaker 1: you have to like there has to be a connection there, right,

1494
01:18:37,600 --> 01:18:41,080
Speaker 1: But from your perspective, like, it's not that you're reintegrating

1495
01:18:41,280 --> 01:18:45,360
Speaker 1: from another country. What is the reality that that from

1496
01:18:45,439 --> 01:18:47,720
Speaker 1: your from your work? What is the reality that these

1497
01:18:47,800 --> 01:18:51,920
Speaker 1: guys that are in American society like what becomes so

1498
01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:52,639
Speaker 1: hard for them?

1499
01:18:52,880 --> 01:18:56,640
Speaker 4: I think it's the trauma exposure you do, okay, and

1500
01:18:56,800 --> 01:18:59,479
Speaker 4: it's the having to compartmentalize that stuff. And then I

1501
01:18:59,560 --> 01:19:02,000
Speaker 4: think as you get older. I actually think as you

1502
01:19:02,040 --> 01:19:04,720
Speaker 4: get older, it hits you harder. And that's just more

1503
01:19:04,800 --> 01:19:09,640
Speaker 4: personal experience. Your mortality comes into the site. Pick quicker, right,

1504
01:19:10,080 --> 01:19:12,479
Speaker 4: starting to get older, you've seen all this stuff. Maybe

1505
01:19:12,479 --> 01:19:14,080
Speaker 4: you've been able to block it out. You just keep

1506
01:19:14,200 --> 01:19:16,800
Speaker 4: rolling high op tempo, block it out. Next call, next call,

1507
01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:20,280
Speaker 4: next call, baby not breathing, okay, had to deal with that,

1508
01:19:20,760 --> 01:19:23,160
Speaker 4: and the baby didn't make it okay, you know, besides

1509
01:19:23,200 --> 01:19:26,519
Speaker 4: the fact that you know you gave it mouth to mouth.

1510
01:19:27,040 --> 01:19:29,479
Speaker 4: Then you go to a fatal crash, just an accident,

1511
01:19:29,840 --> 01:19:33,240
Speaker 4: but kid gets run over and you're investigating that. Then

1512
01:19:33,280 --> 01:19:35,360
Speaker 4: you go to a shooting, okay, drug rip off Okay,

1513
01:19:35,400 --> 01:19:37,519
Speaker 4: I can kind of I can kind of compartmentalize that

1514
01:19:37,520 --> 01:19:39,960
Speaker 4: it shouldn't have been messing with dope, right, But you

1515
01:19:40,120 --> 01:19:42,120
Speaker 4: compartmentalize and go to the next one, the next one,

1516
01:19:42,120 --> 01:19:43,840
Speaker 4: the next one, and it just stacks up. I like

1517
01:19:43,920 --> 01:19:46,280
Speaker 4: to use the bookshelf example. Right, you take it, you

1518
01:19:46,439 --> 01:19:48,640
Speaker 4: put the book on the shelf behind you. You just

1519
01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:52,720
Speaker 4: keep doing that over the years, and you're rolling careers, great,

1520
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:55,799
Speaker 4: everything's cool, family's cool. And then all of a sudden,

1521
01:19:55,960 --> 01:19:59,479
Speaker 4: the bookshelf falls over where you're gonna put all that stuff,

1522
01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:02,800
Speaker 4: and it's all coming kind of come coming down on you.

1523
01:20:02,960 --> 01:20:06,680
Speaker 4: Start thinking about things you got maybe a little more

1524
01:20:06,760 --> 01:20:09,519
Speaker 4: time as you get older, you know, you're having kids

1525
01:20:09,560 --> 01:20:12,160
Speaker 4: and grandkids whatever, and and that some of that stuff

1526
01:20:12,200 --> 01:20:15,720
Speaker 4: starts piling up on you. And uh, I think that

1527
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:19,320
Speaker 4: plays a role as well. And and and then those questions,

1528
01:20:19,520 --> 01:20:22,560
Speaker 4: maybe it's a little guilt and shame. Maybe it's I

1529
01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:25,120
Speaker 4: wish I could have done more. Why didn't I do more?

1530
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:28,280
Speaker 4: Or why is everybody killing each other? Oh? You know,

1531
01:20:28,400 --> 01:20:31,680
Speaker 4: these kind of things start start coming up, and law

1532
01:20:31,760 --> 01:20:36,200
Speaker 4: enforcement they lose folks too. I remember a young deputy

1533
01:20:36,280 --> 01:20:39,880
Speaker 4: getting getting killed when I early on when I was

1534
01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:43,800
Speaker 4: down working Lennox and we rolled leap Frog tried to

1535
01:20:43,800 --> 01:20:45,720
Speaker 4: get over he was working out a firestone station and

1536
01:20:46,560 --> 01:20:49,640
Speaker 4: and uh got shot up good and and I was

1537
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:53,519
Speaker 4: just in patrol school with him. Good guy, great guy,

1538
01:20:54,400 --> 01:20:57,880
Speaker 4: you know. And it happened. It doesn't happen every single

1539
01:20:58,000 --> 01:21:00,679
Speaker 4: day necessarily where I was working, but it did happen

1540
01:21:00,840 --> 01:21:03,920
Speaker 4: enough to where it bothers you, you know. And Uh,

1541
01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:06,639
Speaker 4: I just think dealing with all that trauma, not having

1542
01:21:06,680 --> 01:21:10,519
Speaker 4: outlets and coping healthy coping mechanisms such as the outdoors,

1543
01:21:10,560 --> 01:21:13,160
Speaker 4: such as uh, you know, talking to people and talking

1544
01:21:13,200 --> 01:21:17,400
Speaker 4: to someone, I think spiritual fitness, spiritual resiens. He's huge.

1545
01:21:18,160 --> 01:21:19,920
Speaker 4: And I put it this way, Steve, I think this

1546
01:21:20,040 --> 01:21:22,640
Speaker 4: is important. You know, where do we where do we

1547
01:21:23,400 --> 01:21:26,640
Speaker 4: think about a carabiner? Right? You guys probably use carabineers.

1548
01:21:27,800 --> 01:21:29,599
Speaker 4: Everybody's probably used one at some point in their life.

1549
01:21:29,680 --> 01:21:31,559
Speaker 4: Where is that? In order for that thing to work right,

1550
01:21:31,560 --> 01:21:33,519
Speaker 4: you gotta screw it down. You gotta hook something stable,

1551
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:38,160
Speaker 4: something you trust. So if we use that term, and

1552
01:21:38,520 --> 01:21:41,200
Speaker 4: we we say, okay, where's our hope. If our hope

1553
01:21:41,280 --> 01:21:45,479
Speaker 4: is the carabiner, what is it connected to. If it's

1554
01:21:45,560 --> 01:21:48,479
Speaker 4: to the world, it's gonna hold you. I'm just gonna

1555
01:21:48,520 --> 01:21:50,880
Speaker 4: screw you. If it's to yourself, you're gonna fail yourself.

1556
01:21:51,200 --> 01:21:53,519
Speaker 4: If it's to other person, usually they're gonna fail you

1557
01:21:53,520 --> 01:21:58,280
Speaker 4: at some point too. But if you've got some spiritual fitness,

1558
01:21:58,479 --> 01:22:00,880
Speaker 4: my personal opinion, if I that thing to the Lord

1559
01:22:00,920 --> 01:22:03,560
Speaker 4: and I study, I mean, not always understand why he

1560
01:22:03,560 --> 01:22:05,560
Speaker 4: does what he does. I mean I always understand the

1561
01:22:07,120 --> 01:22:11,160
Speaker 4: reasons or the timing or whatever. Uh you know. And

1562
01:22:11,200 --> 01:22:13,400
Speaker 4: I'm not I'm not here to preach. I'm just sharing

1563
01:22:13,439 --> 01:22:14,759
Speaker 4: this with you from my own personal experience.

1564
01:22:14,800 --> 01:22:16,439
Speaker 1: I real you were invited here to talk.

1565
01:22:16,800 --> 01:22:20,519
Speaker 4: I would rather hook that, to have my hope hooked

1566
01:22:20,560 --> 01:22:24,080
Speaker 4: to something like that. The one and only do that

1567
01:22:24,160 --> 01:22:26,040
Speaker 4: can they can truly help me? And in the end,

1568
01:22:26,280 --> 01:22:28,160
Speaker 4: when I when I'm not taking none of the stuff

1569
01:22:28,200 --> 01:22:33,200
Speaker 4: with me, nothing's going with me, right nothing? Am I

1570
01:22:33,280 --> 01:22:35,519
Speaker 4: going to roll the dice with eternity? Or am I

1571
01:22:35,560 --> 01:22:38,160
Speaker 4: going to try to spend my time in my life

1572
01:22:38,680 --> 01:22:42,679
Speaker 4: on things that have eternal value, things that are kingdom oriented,

1573
01:22:42,760 --> 01:22:45,280
Speaker 4: to make a difference, be a difference maker in somebody

1574
01:22:45,320 --> 01:22:48,760
Speaker 4: else's life, on behalf of the kingdom, Because I'm a

1575
01:22:48,800 --> 01:22:51,800
Speaker 4: sinner and jacked up just like the rest. Right, we're

1576
01:22:51,880 --> 01:22:53,360
Speaker 4: all trying to help you love each other and get

1577
01:22:53,479 --> 01:22:57,519
Speaker 4: get through stuff. And so so that's the question, the

1578
01:22:57,640 --> 01:22:59,479
Speaker 4: challenge I always ask my where's my hope hooked to?

1579
01:22:59,760 --> 01:23:01,760
Speaker 4: Is ain't trying to run his program and trying to

1580
01:23:02,439 --> 01:23:04,760
Speaker 4: control his life in every aspect. Sure there's days where

1581
01:23:04,760 --> 01:23:06,360
Speaker 4: I do that, and then I realize, Okay, let's see,

1582
01:23:06,439 --> 01:23:09,679
Speaker 4: this whole thing ain't up to me. But it's that faith.

1583
01:23:09,720 --> 01:23:12,920
Speaker 4: It's that it's that spiritual fitness. And that's why it's

1584
01:23:13,000 --> 01:23:15,439
Speaker 4: even what's taught even in the military as some of

1585
01:23:15,479 --> 01:23:19,719
Speaker 4: the resiliency skills is there's a value to that spiritual

1586
01:23:19,800 --> 01:23:22,600
Speaker 4: fitness or spiritual resiliency helping you overcome the challenges that

1587
01:23:22,640 --> 01:23:27,280
Speaker 4: you're going to face in your life. So doesn't necessarily

1588
01:23:27,320 --> 01:23:28,880
Speaker 4: even have to be you know, I'm going to tell

1589
01:23:28,920 --> 01:23:31,000
Speaker 4: you what I think is is a is a good

1590
01:23:31,040 --> 01:23:34,000
Speaker 4: way and what I believe. But if it's not and

1591
01:23:34,080 --> 01:23:37,639
Speaker 4: it's a different, different faith group or but you've got

1592
01:23:37,680 --> 01:23:41,960
Speaker 4: that spiritual resiliency, I think it matters, you know, I

1593
01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:44,720
Speaker 4: think it does. It can help you, you know, get

1594
01:23:44,840 --> 01:23:48,880
Speaker 4: rid of this bookshelf piling up and having that spiritual strength.

1595
01:23:48,920 --> 01:23:50,760
Speaker 4: I think is is a big deal.

1596
01:23:51,680 --> 01:23:55,439
Speaker 1: When you when you host a group of individuals, you're

1597
01:23:55,479 --> 01:23:57,880
Speaker 1: usually hosting a group of individuals who know each other.

1598
01:23:58,000 --> 01:23:58,439
Speaker 1: Is that true?

1599
01:23:59,640 --> 01:24:02,160
Speaker 4: Usually not in all cases. I'd say the majority of

1600
01:24:02,200 --> 01:24:04,080
Speaker 4: the time they know each other or of each other.

1601
01:24:04,680 --> 01:24:04,880
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1602
01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:08,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, and sometimes with vets it doesn't necessarily work that way.

1603
01:24:08,760 --> 01:24:12,040
Speaker 4: But you know, depending on what they're involved with. We

1604
01:24:12,120 --> 01:24:13,880
Speaker 4: might have a team of vets come out that we're

1605
01:24:13,880 --> 01:24:18,120
Speaker 4: all involved in some major stuff in Afghanistan or Iraq,

1606
01:24:18,240 --> 01:24:19,240
Speaker 4: and then they'll know.

1607
01:24:19,520 --> 01:24:24,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, each other. I don't want to like violate what happens. Yeah,

1608
01:24:24,400 --> 01:24:27,360
Speaker 1: it's privately, you know, up the road from my house

1609
01:24:27,479 --> 01:24:30,320
Speaker 1: when you're doing your work. But like a group of

1610
01:24:30,400 --> 01:24:36,680
Speaker 1: people come and they're they're using those probably using those

1611
01:24:36,760 --> 01:24:39,880
Speaker 1: coping mechanisms that you're talking about, meaning the coping mechanism

1612
01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:43,479
Speaker 1: might be like the bookshelf behind you. You know they're

1613
01:24:43,479 --> 01:24:46,360
Speaker 1: they're doing or okay.

1614
01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:51,720
Speaker 4: Right, alcohol or substance abuse or sex addictions or affairs

1615
01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:53,760
Speaker 4: or wherever they're getting there adrenaline.

1616
01:24:53,320 --> 01:24:58,280
Speaker 1: From there's got to be more like maybe at first

1617
01:24:58,400 --> 01:25:00,240
Speaker 1: you'd be like, well, let's cook some burgers. Them will

1618
01:25:00,280 --> 01:25:04,080
Speaker 1: shoot some bows. But I mean, how do you even

1619
01:25:04,320 --> 01:25:07,120
Speaker 1: how does the conversation start? You know what I'm saying.

1620
01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:11,800
Speaker 4: So the way I do it is I've got people

1621
01:25:11,880 --> 01:25:18,120
Speaker 4: I can trust in various agencies and various regions. For example,

1622
01:25:18,280 --> 01:25:21,160
Speaker 4: dudes that I know are legit, that have been through

1623
01:25:21,240 --> 01:25:26,679
Speaker 4: the storms, you know, put in their work that people respect,

1624
01:25:27,479 --> 01:25:32,080
Speaker 4: that are equally yoked with the mission. Makes sense? No, okay,

1625
01:25:32,439 --> 01:25:35,280
Speaker 4: so equally oak. They're on board, right, They're on board

1626
01:25:35,320 --> 01:25:37,599
Speaker 4: with our mission, they understand it, and they have access

1627
01:25:37,640 --> 01:25:39,439
Speaker 4: to some of these agencies more so than I do

1628
01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:40,240
Speaker 4: because I'm up here.

1629
01:25:40,439 --> 01:25:43,519
Speaker 1: Oh when you say they're yoked with the mission, your mission? Yes,

1630
01:25:43,840 --> 01:25:44,920
Speaker 1: mission right?

1631
01:25:45,000 --> 01:25:47,400
Speaker 4: Be equally oaked. Right, So it's a kind of a

1632
01:25:47,560 --> 01:25:49,639
Speaker 4: theological term. Right when you got two oxen, if they're

1633
01:25:49,680 --> 01:25:52,040
Speaker 4: not equally oak, they're not going to be able to plow.

1634
01:25:52,120 --> 01:25:56,680
Speaker 4: So everybody's equally oaked. And they're recruiting people to come

1635
01:25:56,760 --> 01:25:59,200
Speaker 4: up different struggles they they've heard about or know about,

1636
01:25:59,200 --> 01:26:00,640
Speaker 4: so they're hitting them kind of off the side. No

1637
01:26:00,680 --> 01:26:03,200
Speaker 4: one's getting spotlighted, No one's getting this is a very

1638
01:26:03,360 --> 01:26:07,800
Speaker 4: like in the Trenches program. We don't care, We're not

1639
01:26:07,960 --> 01:26:10,519
Speaker 4: looking at okay, we need two hundred people to come

1640
01:26:10,560 --> 01:26:12,439
Speaker 4: through this season. We have a steady take. We do

1641
01:26:12,600 --> 01:26:15,120
Speaker 4: small intimate groups so we can really make the most

1642
01:26:15,200 --> 01:26:21,799
Speaker 4: maximum impact in the time they're here. So the dynamic

1643
01:26:21,920 --> 01:26:24,280
Speaker 4: when they arrive, so they kind of have a little

1644
01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:26,120
Speaker 4: rough idea, but I'd say most of the time they

1645
01:26:26,160 --> 01:26:28,800
Speaker 4: don't really know how it's going to go. You got

1646
01:26:28,920 --> 01:26:30,840
Speaker 4: to earn their trust and that starts the moment they

1647
01:26:30,840 --> 01:26:33,640
Speaker 4: get off the plane. Right, you know, my job and

1648
01:26:33,680 --> 01:26:35,760
Speaker 4: they sometimes they don't realize I'm doing this, but my

1649
01:26:35,920 --> 01:26:38,080
Speaker 4: job is to size them up, and they're gonna size

1650
01:26:38,120 --> 01:26:40,920
Speaker 4: me up to figure out Okay, body language, what do

1651
01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:42,200
Speaker 4: they say, what are they wearing?

1652
01:26:42,280 --> 01:26:42,760
Speaker 5: What you know?

1653
01:26:42,800 --> 01:26:44,960
Speaker 4: And you're not judging, You're just trying to You're trying

1654
01:26:44,960 --> 01:26:47,880
Speaker 4: to get to know them on a little more intimate level, right,

1655
01:26:48,360 --> 01:26:49,920
Speaker 4: so you can better so you can better help them.

1656
01:26:50,080 --> 01:26:52,560
Speaker 1: And they have to know that, Like these guys have

1657
01:26:52,760 --> 01:26:53,720
Speaker 1: to know you've been there.

1658
01:26:54,120 --> 01:26:56,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh yeah, they know. Yeah, they'll know. They can

1659
01:26:56,360 --> 01:26:58,000
Speaker 4: go to the website, or they can ask around, or

1660
01:26:58,040 --> 01:26:59,160
Speaker 4: they can talk to these I mean.

1661
01:26:59,320 --> 01:27:04,640
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, not just knowledge, but psychologically it matters that

1662
01:27:04,760 --> 01:27:06,040
Speaker 1: you've seen the things they've seen.

1663
01:27:07,200 --> 01:27:09,559
Speaker 4: I think it matters for them. I think it matters,

1664
01:27:09,640 --> 01:27:11,680
Speaker 4: I think, and that goes back to that putting in

1665
01:27:11,840 --> 01:27:16,960
Speaker 4: work statement. It's the same with vets, right, you'll you'll

1666
01:27:17,040 --> 01:27:19,040
Speaker 4: you'll be more comfortable with someone that's been down range

1667
01:27:19,080 --> 01:27:22,600
Speaker 4: maybe than someone that hasn't, regardless of necessarily even what

1668
01:27:22,720 --> 01:27:24,880
Speaker 4: they did. But they embrace the suck. They were there,

1669
01:27:25,000 --> 01:27:27,479
Speaker 4: they were separated from their families, they were there. Yeah,

1670
01:27:28,080 --> 01:27:31,679
Speaker 4: so it's similar to that. They come in, Man, there's

1671
01:27:31,720 --> 01:27:34,280
Speaker 4: nothing tough. We're gonna give them a tour, We're gonna

1672
01:27:34,320 --> 01:27:37,639
Speaker 4: talk about schedule, We're gonna do introductions, and that's where

1673
01:27:37,720 --> 01:27:40,800
Speaker 4: I think the ice breakers come when we start doing introductions.

1674
01:27:41,560 --> 01:27:43,519
Speaker 4: You know, where do you work, you know, tell me

1675
01:27:43,560 --> 01:27:46,160
Speaker 4: about your family, those kind of things. But the funny

1676
01:27:46,200 --> 01:27:49,479
Speaker 4: part is, man, and I can't explain it any other

1677
01:27:49,560 --> 01:27:53,040
Speaker 4: way than this, as crazy as it sounds, And some

1678
01:27:53,160 --> 01:27:54,400
Speaker 4: of the listeners might be like, I don't know what

1679
01:27:54,400 --> 01:27:57,599
Speaker 4: he's talking about. But when they come through the door,

1680
01:27:58,600 --> 01:28:00,439
Speaker 4: first of all, when they make a decision to come

1681
01:28:00,520 --> 01:28:02,400
Speaker 4: up there, there's a sense of vulnerability that they have.

1682
01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:05,679
Speaker 4: They're showing up. They know at some point we're gonna

1683
01:28:05,680 --> 01:28:07,519
Speaker 4: talk a little bit. They're not gonna be forced to.

1684
01:28:07,640 --> 01:28:11,720
Speaker 4: But that's the deal. They're starting to recognize that they

1685
01:28:11,800 --> 01:28:14,160
Speaker 4: got to make some changes in their life right and

1686
01:28:14,520 --> 01:28:18,240
Speaker 4: step up. So some of that's already gone. And my

1687
01:28:18,400 --> 01:28:20,960
Speaker 4: belief is guys preparing their hearts well before they show up.

1688
01:28:21,240 --> 01:28:23,240
Speaker 4: I'm talking the toughest. Most of them don't even have

1689
01:28:23,360 --> 01:28:26,040
Speaker 4: a religious They don't have to have that to show

1690
01:28:26,120 --> 01:28:30,479
Speaker 4: up there. That's not a requirement. It starts before they

1691
01:28:30,520 --> 01:28:32,799
Speaker 4: get here. They get here, they come in, we relax,

1692
01:28:33,000 --> 01:28:34,840
Speaker 4: we give tours, and then I just open it up

1693
01:28:34,880 --> 01:28:37,400
Speaker 4: and explain, Listen, man, I'm down here to We're not judging,

1694
01:28:37,439 --> 01:28:40,160
Speaker 4: We're not We're here to let you get some rest,

1695
01:28:40,800 --> 01:28:43,599
Speaker 4: hopefull you'ld to get something out of it. We'll go outside,

1696
01:28:43,640 --> 01:28:46,000
Speaker 4: we'll do some fun stuff, get to shoot some bows

1697
01:28:46,040 --> 01:28:48,360
Speaker 4: and uh, and we'll dig in.

1698
01:28:48,400 --> 01:28:48,800
Speaker 1: A little bit.

1699
01:28:49,280 --> 01:28:52,000
Speaker 4: And it's a good time to do a self evaluation.

1700
01:28:52,760 --> 01:28:54,200
Speaker 4: And I just tell them straight, it's a good time

1701
01:28:54,200 --> 01:28:57,880
Speaker 4: to do a self evaluation and a gut check. I

1702
01:28:57,920 --> 01:29:00,000
Speaker 4: think it's healthy for us. And I can only speak

1703
01:29:00,080 --> 01:29:02,920
Speaker 4: from a man's perspective. Is you know we're most have

1704
01:29:02,960 --> 01:29:05,479
Speaker 4: been here in here a men, but you got a

1705
01:29:05,479 --> 01:29:07,880
Speaker 4: gut check yourself from time to time and figure out

1706
01:29:07,880 --> 01:29:10,439
Speaker 4: where where am I? What's the purpose of this life?

1707
01:29:10,439 --> 01:29:13,080
Speaker 4: Where am I going? You know, what's going to happen

1708
01:29:13,120 --> 01:29:15,240
Speaker 4: when I go to die? You know what? What does

1709
01:29:15,280 --> 01:29:18,200
Speaker 4: that look like? It's just over? Okay? You know how

1710
01:29:18,520 --> 01:29:20,280
Speaker 4: how am I with my relationships? How am I with

1711
01:29:20,400 --> 01:29:22,840
Speaker 4: my kids? All of those things? How am I with

1712
01:29:22,960 --> 01:29:23,280
Speaker 4: my job?

1713
01:29:23,400 --> 01:29:23,920
Speaker 1: My peers?

1714
01:29:25,080 --> 01:29:28,719
Speaker 4: Those are all all things that that we talk about.

1715
01:29:28,720 --> 01:29:30,320
Speaker 4: But it's a good time. I think it's important to

1716
01:29:30,360 --> 01:29:32,080
Speaker 4: gut check yourself once in a while. What kind of

1717
01:29:32,080 --> 01:29:35,960
Speaker 4: a man am I? Right? What do I really stand for?

1718
01:29:37,560 --> 01:29:40,200
Speaker 4: Because uh, you know, we're all going to get older,

1719
01:29:40,200 --> 01:29:41,719
Speaker 4: and then that's going to be the question, right.

1720
01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:44,400
Speaker 1: And you invite people to ask these questions of themselves.

1721
01:29:44,880 --> 01:29:48,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll pose the question. And a

1722
01:29:48,280 --> 01:29:50,479
Speaker 4: lot of times sometimes guys will jump in. Sometimes they'll

1723
01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:56,040
Speaker 4: just listen, intimately listen then and then when it starts

1724
01:29:56,080 --> 01:29:59,080
Speaker 4: to trust is earned, it'll open up. They'll talk about

1725
01:29:59,080 --> 01:30:02,840
Speaker 4: an incident. Maybe it was on a swat call. Maybe

1726
01:30:03,040 --> 01:30:04,680
Speaker 4: you know, one of the guys got killed and they're

1727
01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:06,160
Speaker 4: in a stick and they gotta step over him and

1728
01:30:06,280 --> 01:30:09,439
Speaker 4: keep fighting. Maybe they'll get into that. Maybe it's a

1729
01:30:09,479 --> 01:30:11,639
Speaker 4: family thing. Maybe it's something they feel comfortable to talk

1730
01:30:11,640 --> 01:30:15,240
Speaker 4: about about a bad situation with a parent or you

1731
01:30:15,320 --> 01:30:20,000
Speaker 4: know whatever. It's a safe place for that. And there's

1732
01:30:20,000 --> 01:30:22,120
Speaker 4: a lot of you know, so many people run by

1733
01:30:22,160 --> 01:30:25,080
Speaker 4: our place and drive up there, and I think if

1734
01:30:25,120 --> 01:30:28,639
Speaker 4: they knew the cool stuff there's going on down there,

1735
01:30:29,120 --> 01:30:32,360
Speaker 4: that's private. What goes on there stays there. But the

1736
01:30:32,800 --> 01:30:35,680
Speaker 4: I think some of the ministry work and the massaging

1737
01:30:35,720 --> 01:30:39,639
Speaker 4: of hearts and loving on people, I think I think

1738
01:30:39,680 --> 01:30:41,080
Speaker 4: they'd really be be shocked.

1739
01:30:43,920 --> 01:30:45,479
Speaker 1: You guys are incredibly low key.

1740
01:30:46,200 --> 01:30:46,960
Speaker 4: We like it that way.

1741
01:30:47,080 --> 01:30:49,760
Speaker 1: In our neighborhood. No one until I came on the show,

1742
01:30:50,600 --> 01:30:53,720
Speaker 1: and our neighborhood, no one knows. No one knows, right,

1743
01:30:54,200 --> 01:30:57,000
Speaker 1: no one knows. You guys don't have your trucks aren't marked.

1744
01:30:57,960 --> 01:31:02,960
Speaker 1: There's no sign we've got one you Yeah, oh no, no,

1745
01:31:03,120 --> 01:31:03,479
Speaker 1: I'm sorry.

1746
01:31:03,560 --> 01:31:06,360
Speaker 4: Yeah about being low key.

1747
01:31:06,439 --> 01:31:08,040
Speaker 1: I was like, you know that place up there, it's

1748
01:31:08,080 --> 01:31:11,200
Speaker 1: like they run that nonprofit for first responders and veterans.

1749
01:31:11,200 --> 01:31:15,719
Speaker 1: People like what, Yeah, I'm telling you right there, man, it's.

1750
01:31:15,080 --> 01:31:17,400
Speaker 4: About being low key. You won't see us in town

1751
01:31:17,800 --> 01:31:21,479
Speaker 4: drinking beers too much. You won't see us. Uh, you're

1752
01:31:21,520 --> 01:31:23,479
Speaker 4: not gonna see us out pushing this and pushing that.

1753
01:31:23,600 --> 01:31:26,719
Speaker 4: We're just here to put in work. His old school.

1754
01:31:27,479 --> 01:31:29,720
Speaker 1: How many how many guys come How many guys come

1755
01:31:29,760 --> 01:31:30,320
Speaker 1: through your place?

1756
01:31:30,760 --> 01:31:34,400
Speaker 4: We get about seventy sometimes a little more season yeap,

1757
01:31:35,240 --> 01:31:37,479
Speaker 4: And we usually run from May, depends on the snow

1758
01:31:37,600 --> 01:31:39,840
Speaker 4: and kind of what's happening. But is he made it

1759
01:31:39,880 --> 01:31:41,760
Speaker 4: November first? Yep?

1760
01:31:42,800 --> 01:31:46,760
Speaker 1: And we reset. We usually go every other week, reset.

1761
01:31:46,520 --> 01:31:49,519
Speaker 4: Clean kind of for us to kind of you know,

1762
01:31:49,720 --> 01:31:52,560
Speaker 4: for me emotion menally and emotionally, just also for me

1763
01:31:52,680 --> 01:31:54,640
Speaker 4: to kind of clear my head and my staff, my

1764
01:31:54,760 --> 01:31:57,919
Speaker 4: volunteers give him a break because you know, getting volunteers

1765
01:31:57,960 --> 01:32:00,320
Speaker 4: sometimes that came help out and teach stuff, and it's

1766
01:32:00,720 --> 01:32:03,640
Speaker 4: Sonny and Bozeman is and it's on a weekend, right,

1767
01:32:04,560 --> 01:32:07,559
Speaker 4: that can be tough. But and then everything's fund raised

1768
01:32:07,560 --> 01:32:09,960
Speaker 4: for and that that gets tough, you know, But every

1769
01:32:10,040 --> 01:32:13,639
Speaker 4: year we seem to just get enough to keep keep rolling.

1770
01:32:14,120 --> 01:32:17,680
Speaker 4: And so I just keep the faith, man, I just

1771
01:32:18,080 --> 01:32:18,519
Speaker 4: keep going.

1772
01:32:19,120 --> 01:32:21,759
Speaker 1: How much is doing that work its own you imagine,

1773
01:32:21,800 --> 01:32:24,439
Speaker 1: like you mentioned like having traumas, how much of that

1774
01:32:25,200 --> 01:32:29,240
Speaker 1: work does that to you and the people you work with?

1775
01:32:31,280 --> 01:32:33,680
Speaker 4: You mean, what effects do we get from here, And I.

1776
01:32:33,680 --> 01:32:35,400
Speaker 1: Mean, does it wind up being does it wind up

1777
01:32:35,439 --> 01:32:41,840
Speaker 1: being kind of circular where you not that they lay

1778
01:32:41,880 --> 01:32:46,000
Speaker 1: it on you, but like here, you are seventy people

1779
01:32:46,320 --> 01:32:48,680
Speaker 1: in a in a seventy people through the course of

1780
01:32:48,720 --> 01:32:54,960
Speaker 1: the summer lay on you all their horrific ship, right.

1781
01:32:56,400 --> 01:32:56,519
Speaker 5: Do you?

1782
01:32:56,640 --> 01:32:58,840
Speaker 1: I mean, does it does it feel burdensome or does

1783
01:32:58,880 --> 01:33:00,439
Speaker 1: it feel like it cleanses and something?

1784
01:33:00,520 --> 01:33:02,160
Speaker 4: Oh, I think I'd be lent to you if it's

1785
01:33:02,240 --> 01:33:05,439
Speaker 4: not burdensome, because I think our natural reaction is to

1786
01:33:05,560 --> 01:33:08,479
Speaker 4: take on to help people sometimes try to take those on.

1787
01:33:08,680 --> 01:33:11,840
Speaker 4: But it's not my deal. It's it's not it's not

1788
01:33:12,000 --> 01:33:14,519
Speaker 4: my caper, right, it's it's God's I gotta I gotta

1789
01:33:14,560 --> 01:33:16,560
Speaker 4: give it to him. I'm just there to facilitate that.

1790
01:33:17,720 --> 01:33:20,040
Speaker 4: And uh, and that's how that's how I treat it.

1791
01:33:20,120 --> 01:33:22,240
Speaker 4: But you your heart does break for some of them,

1792
01:33:22,320 --> 01:33:23,760
Speaker 4: and you think a lot about them, and you keep

1793
01:33:23,800 --> 01:33:26,160
Speaker 4: them on prayerless, and you stay in contact all those things.

1794
01:33:26,760 --> 01:33:31,640
Speaker 4: But to watch a you know, it's good for me,

1795
01:33:32,360 --> 01:33:34,200
Speaker 4: and I think it's good for my staff to hear this,

1796
01:33:35,000 --> 01:33:37,559
Speaker 4: to hear from them, and to give back in that way.

1797
01:33:37,560 --> 01:33:39,960
Speaker 4: I mean, we're serving those that serve us, right, So

1798
01:33:40,320 --> 01:33:42,920
Speaker 4: it's super rewarding, like it fills the cup big time

1799
01:33:44,240 --> 01:33:46,720
Speaker 4: and it and it definitely helps me personally, brings back

1800
01:33:46,760 --> 01:33:49,000
Speaker 4: a lot of memories sometimes for me that I have

1801
01:33:49,080 --> 01:33:54,200
Speaker 4: to sort through afterwards. But uh, I think it's circular

1802
01:33:54,240 --> 01:33:56,200
Speaker 4: in that way and in a positive But I also

1803
01:33:56,320 --> 01:33:58,600
Speaker 4: think if you don't, if you don't deal with the

1804
01:33:58,680 --> 01:34:00,920
Speaker 4: way you should deal with it, then it can be

1805
01:34:01,160 --> 01:34:05,479
Speaker 4: two burdensome to you, similar to down range. Right. I

1806
01:34:05,600 --> 01:34:07,600
Speaker 4: tried when I first lost those two guys, and for

1807
01:34:07,680 --> 01:34:10,160
Speaker 4: whatever reason, I would, you know, a lot of times

1808
01:34:10,200 --> 01:34:12,840
Speaker 4: I would stand when there was if I wasn't going

1809
01:34:12,880 --> 01:34:14,519
Speaker 4: on a mission. We had these secret briefing tents and

1810
01:34:14,520 --> 01:34:16,320
Speaker 4: then a convoy would go out. We have convoy security

1811
01:34:16,439 --> 01:34:19,320
Speaker 4: was kind of our primary thing, right, which is sketchy

1812
01:34:19,360 --> 01:34:23,200
Speaker 4: because you're rolling down all the roads and uh, and

1813
01:34:23,400 --> 01:34:25,960
Speaker 4: we had I was in there later at night and

1814
01:34:26,200 --> 01:34:29,519
Speaker 4: I'll try to work through this here, but late at

1815
01:34:29,560 --> 01:34:31,400
Speaker 4: night was one of my last ones. So I would

1816
01:34:31,439 --> 01:34:33,200
Speaker 4: go in this briefing tent for different chalks that were

1817
01:34:33,240 --> 01:34:35,120
Speaker 4: going out. I would sit in the back in a

1818
01:34:35,200 --> 01:34:38,280
Speaker 4: chair by the door. They'd give their secret brief on

1819
01:34:38,400 --> 01:34:41,920
Speaker 4: the routes. This one's black, this is red, whatever, and

1820
01:34:42,120 --> 01:34:43,880
Speaker 4: kind of go over the mission and how things are

1821
01:34:43,920 --> 01:34:47,479
Speaker 4: gonna roll. Well, this was the last one of the night,

1822
01:34:48,000 --> 01:34:51,599
Speaker 4: and I had a close relationship with some of these guys.

1823
01:34:51,640 --> 01:34:54,720
Speaker 4: I won't get into why, but with kind of these

1824
01:34:54,800 --> 01:34:57,439
Speaker 4: main ones that were involved in this particular incident. So

1825
01:34:57,560 --> 01:34:59,960
Speaker 4: at the end, I go chaplain, chaplain, stands up, everybody

1826
01:35:00,120 --> 01:35:02,760
Speaker 4: stands up. You give them a pep talk, You give

1827
01:35:02,800 --> 01:35:04,639
Speaker 4: them some encouragement, man, because let me tell you something,

1828
01:35:05,720 --> 01:35:08,759
Speaker 4: when you have an opportunity, I don't know of anything

1829
01:35:08,920 --> 01:35:11,040
Speaker 4: more humbling that's happened to me. Maybe birth, my kids

1830
01:35:11,080 --> 01:35:14,559
Speaker 4: and those kind of things, but my marriage to look

1831
01:35:14,640 --> 01:35:17,519
Speaker 4: in the eyes of a young soldier who could be

1832
01:35:17,720 --> 01:35:20,960
Speaker 4: sucking on a Starbucks latte, but they're down range, embracing

1833
01:35:21,040 --> 01:35:25,840
Speaker 4: the suck, serving their country, dirty and tired, and you

1834
01:35:25,960 --> 01:35:29,320
Speaker 4: get that opportunity to love on them. I don't know

1835
01:35:29,400 --> 01:35:33,400
Speaker 4: what's better than that. And so give them some encouragement,

1836
01:35:33,520 --> 01:35:36,679
Speaker 4: maybe read a psalm or verse, pump them up, because

1837
01:35:36,680 --> 01:35:38,680
Speaker 4: you don't know who's not coming back from that deal.

1838
01:35:39,800 --> 01:35:42,880
Speaker 4: I mean, just don't th roll the dice. Right In

1839
01:35:42,960 --> 01:35:47,439
Speaker 4: that particular night, I had for whatever reason. I usually

1840
01:35:47,439 --> 01:35:49,000
Speaker 4: will stand back by the door when they're done and

1841
01:35:49,040 --> 01:35:51,120
Speaker 4: they're leaving and just hug them, smack them on the shoulder,

1842
01:35:51,200 --> 01:35:54,720
Speaker 4: tell them I love them, and and you know, I'll

1843
01:35:54,720 --> 01:35:56,599
Speaker 4: see it soon or what you know, tomorrow or whatever.

1844
01:35:57,560 --> 01:36:00,600
Speaker 4: Everything will be fine. Well for whatever. That night, I

1845
01:36:00,760 --> 01:36:04,600
Speaker 4: was focused on these one truck and uh one we

1846
01:36:04,760 --> 01:36:08,639
Speaker 4: call him trucks, but one group. So you got a driver,

1847
01:36:08,800 --> 01:36:12,320
Speaker 4: TC and a gunner in that truck and H. I

1848
01:36:12,400 --> 01:36:14,960
Speaker 4: hugged them, shook their hands, and I was having a

1849
01:36:15,000 --> 01:36:18,320
Speaker 4: lot of interactions with them for some other things going on,

1850
01:36:18,520 --> 01:36:23,120
Speaker 4: and in a positive way and H and I told them.

1851
01:36:23,360 --> 01:36:26,680
Speaker 4: They're like, hey, chaplain, we'll see you tomorrow. And I said, yeah,

1852
01:36:26,680 --> 01:36:29,280
Speaker 4: I said, you're going to be fine. I prayed, everything's cool, guys.

1853
01:36:29,600 --> 01:36:31,160
Speaker 4: You guys go out there, do your thing. Man, We

1854
01:36:31,200 --> 01:36:33,519
Speaker 4: appreciate you serving the country. We love you, all those

1855
01:36:34,200 --> 01:36:38,240
Speaker 4: motivational things. And then two hours later, you know, I'm

1856
01:36:38,960 --> 01:36:41,760
Speaker 4: getting woke up one in the morning or whatever and

1857
01:36:43,479 --> 01:36:48,000
Speaker 4: running to the TMC and and uh they're hollering for

1858
01:36:48,120 --> 01:36:49,600
Speaker 4: me to get back there, and they're bringing one of

1859
01:36:49,640 --> 01:36:51,920
Speaker 4: them in on a gurney and he's all blown up.

1860
01:36:52,000 --> 01:36:56,679
Speaker 4: And turn to kid it out, and then I don't

1861
01:36:56,680 --> 01:36:58,320
Speaker 4: see the other guys. And then now I got a

1862
01:36:58,360 --> 01:37:02,080
Speaker 4: medic hugging me, crying because we lost those two guys

1863
01:37:02,120 --> 01:37:05,080
Speaker 4: we didn't know. I got company commanders. And two. I mean,

1864
01:37:05,120 --> 01:37:07,720
Speaker 4: it's just kind of melee that I'm trying to deal with.

1865
01:37:08,479 --> 01:37:10,200
Speaker 4: But the one, the one young man, he asked me

1866
01:37:10,320 --> 01:37:12,640
Speaker 4: something that was interesting. And he said, he's laying on

1867
01:37:12,720 --> 01:37:16,960
Speaker 4: his gurney and he said, he said, well, first he says, hey, chaplin,

1868
01:37:17,720 --> 01:37:21,240
Speaker 4: I said, and he's still still alive today, great, great kid.

1869
01:37:22,240 --> 01:37:24,200
Speaker 4: And I said, hey, man, I said, be asking you that.

1870
01:37:24,760 --> 01:37:29,680
Speaker 4: And then he realized what was happening and and his

1871
01:37:29,800 --> 01:37:33,680
Speaker 4: legs are in bad shape, and and I said, he

1872
01:37:33,840 --> 01:37:36,040
Speaker 4: asked me this, He said, why did God let this happen?

1873
01:37:37,040 --> 01:37:40,599
Speaker 4: And still to this day that question haunts me. Haunts

1874
01:37:40,640 --> 01:37:45,240
Speaker 4: me from a few perspectives. I don't have the answer. One. Two.

1875
01:37:45,800 --> 01:37:48,200
Speaker 4: He just he was sizing it up and realized he's

1876
01:37:48,240 --> 01:37:51,080
Speaker 4: in trouble and where's his buddies because he didn't know,

1877
01:37:53,560 --> 01:37:55,760
Speaker 4: and I didn't have it. I didn't have anything. And

1878
01:37:55,800 --> 01:37:57,439
Speaker 4: I was thinking, okay, Lord, you gotta give me something.

1879
01:37:57,479 --> 01:37:58,960
Speaker 4: So I just say, hey, listen, man, I don't know,

1880
01:37:59,520 --> 01:38:01,160
Speaker 4: I said, but God's got you. I got you, and

1881
01:38:01,160 --> 01:38:02,960
Speaker 4: I ain't going to leave your side. And I give

1882
01:38:03,000 --> 01:38:05,760
Speaker 4: you my word, I'm not leaving your side. And so

1883
01:38:05,800 --> 01:38:07,599
Speaker 4: I stayed with him until they shipped him to Germany.

1884
01:38:07,680 --> 01:38:13,240
Speaker 4: But what blogged in Germany? But I struggled with that

1885
01:38:13,400 --> 01:38:15,840
Speaker 4: the first few days in particular, I mean I still

1886
01:38:15,920 --> 01:38:17,800
Speaker 4: kind of struggle with it, just because I had said

1887
01:38:17,880 --> 01:38:20,439
Speaker 4: something that I don't think I should say. Again, did

1888
01:38:20,479 --> 01:38:22,720
Speaker 4: I give him a false sense of hope? Right?

1889
01:38:22,960 --> 01:38:23,200
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1890
01:38:23,760 --> 01:38:26,120
Speaker 4: Like maybe I shouldn't have said those things that way.

1891
01:38:26,720 --> 01:38:28,560
Speaker 4: So I had to change what I said. It's not

1892
01:38:28,680 --> 01:38:32,679
Speaker 4: up to me, sin, it's not my deal. Yeah, who

1893
01:38:32,800 --> 01:38:35,840
Speaker 4: comes home and who's you know, it's just not my deal.

1894
01:38:36,240 --> 01:38:38,320
Speaker 4: And so I had to I had to change that up.

1895
01:38:38,760 --> 01:38:41,559
Speaker 1: Like he gave him an assurance that wasn't used to give.

1896
01:38:41,520 --> 01:38:45,120
Speaker 4: It, right right yep. And I and that's the one

1897
01:38:45,200 --> 01:38:48,000
Speaker 4: that I still remember it everything about that night to

1898
01:38:48,120 --> 01:38:50,880
Speaker 4: this day. And there was other wounded people and other things,

1899
01:38:50,920 --> 01:38:53,719
Speaker 4: but that was our first one. And I said those words.

1900
01:38:53,760 --> 01:38:57,479
Speaker 4: So I just as a learning lesson, how did you

1901
01:38:57,640 --> 01:39:02,320
Speaker 4: change your words? Then you just would say, hey, you

1902
01:39:02,400 --> 01:39:04,520
Speaker 4: guys are doing great work. You focus on the positives.

1903
01:39:05,080 --> 01:39:06,920
Speaker 4: Go out there, take care of business. We're with you

1904
01:39:07,439 --> 01:39:11,439
Speaker 4: whatever you need, you know, more encouraging. I wouldn't promise them,

1905
01:39:12,080 --> 01:39:14,000
Speaker 4: even though I didn't realize I was doing that till

1906
01:39:14,080 --> 01:39:19,080
Speaker 4: after mortality, like promising them survival. Yep, this is not

1907
01:39:19,200 --> 01:39:22,280
Speaker 4: my call. And so I had to change that up.

1908
01:39:22,560 --> 01:39:24,960
Speaker 4: And there's a many other chaplains that have similar stories

1909
01:39:25,000 --> 01:39:26,840
Speaker 4: about you're just trying to give him some encouragement and

1910
01:39:26,840 --> 01:39:29,000
Speaker 4: that's why you're in there. But you know, they've got

1911
01:39:29,120 --> 01:39:31,160
Speaker 4: to trust that chaplain when that chaplain's praying. They got

1912
01:39:31,280 --> 01:39:33,320
Speaker 4: to trust when he you know, he stands up back there,

1913
01:39:33,439 --> 01:39:36,320
Speaker 4: she stands up. There's got to be a sense of

1914
01:39:36,520 --> 01:39:39,479
Speaker 4: all right, we're gonna be good. So there is some

1915
01:39:39,680 --> 01:39:42,920
Speaker 4: of that, But saying the words I think is was.

1916
01:39:43,600 --> 01:39:46,200
Speaker 4: I just didn't do that anymore. Figured out a different way.

1917
01:39:47,000 --> 01:39:47,160
Speaker 3: You know.

1918
01:39:47,880 --> 01:39:49,080
Speaker 4: I got last question for you.

1919
01:39:49,560 --> 01:39:55,519
Speaker 1: Your place where you work is just like this gorgeous property. Yeah,

1920
01:39:55,600 --> 01:39:58,360
Speaker 1: you guys got like a big creek, got looking off

1921
01:39:58,400 --> 01:40:01,800
Speaker 1: at the mountains, trout pond and yeah, big meadows and

1922
01:40:01,880 --> 01:40:06,000
Speaker 1: it's beautiful. Do you do you feel that? I mean,

1923
01:40:06,040 --> 01:40:08,720
Speaker 1: obviously do because you do your work there. But what

1924
01:40:08,960 --> 01:40:12,880
Speaker 1: is that what is that like natural environment, that natural

1925
01:40:12,960 --> 01:40:15,200
Speaker 1: beauty to be there?

1926
01:40:15,880 --> 01:40:16,080
Speaker 5: Is that.

1927
01:40:17,760 --> 01:40:22,360
Speaker 1: Is that helpful and getting people to want to go

1928
01:40:22,680 --> 01:40:26,960
Speaker 1: or is it helpful in getting people to getting people

1929
01:40:27,000 --> 01:40:28,080
Speaker 1: to open up you know what I mean.

1930
01:40:28,120 --> 01:40:30,599
Speaker 4: I think I think there's it's a yes to all three, right.

1931
01:40:30,640 --> 01:40:33,439
Speaker 4: I think I think one, people want to come to Montana,

1932
01:40:34,439 --> 01:40:38,559
Speaker 4: you know, they want they want to come up here

1933
01:40:38,600 --> 01:40:41,640
Speaker 4: and experience the beauty of it. I think they go

1934
01:40:41,760 --> 01:40:43,479
Speaker 4: on there and they see the place and they're like,

1935
01:40:43,960 --> 01:40:47,920
Speaker 4: you know, obviously enamored with that beauty. It's quiet, although

1936
01:40:48,120 --> 01:40:50,040
Speaker 4: you know sometimes now with some of the traffic in

1937
01:40:50,040 --> 01:40:52,120
Speaker 4: the winter, but we don't run as main groups in winter,

1938
01:40:52,240 --> 01:40:56,559
Speaker 4: so but it's quiet. It's away from the chaos, right,

1939
01:40:56,720 --> 01:40:59,160
Speaker 4: it's a it's a good place to gut check yourself.

1940
01:40:59,439 --> 01:41:03,080
Speaker 4: You can folks us on stuff and the beauty and

1941
01:41:03,360 --> 01:41:05,400
Speaker 4: and uh, you know, we've got a chef that comes

1942
01:41:05,400 --> 01:41:10,240
Speaker 4: in and cooks and make it comfortable. But yeah, the

1943
01:41:10,280 --> 01:41:12,240
Speaker 4: beauty is huge. And when they wake up and it's

1944
01:41:12,320 --> 01:41:14,360
Speaker 4: quiet and they're looking at trees and they're seeing animals

1945
01:41:14,439 --> 01:41:16,800
Speaker 4: and a lot of times those moose, I don't know

1946
01:41:16,840 --> 01:41:20,479
Speaker 4: what it is. They're fighting in the front yard, and

1947
01:41:20,600 --> 01:41:24,920
Speaker 4: guys were like, you know, I had one fireman, long

1948
01:41:24,960 --> 01:41:28,840
Speaker 4: beach fireman, great group man. Every person that's been through,

1949
01:41:28,880 --> 01:41:32,200
Speaker 4: it's just been fantastic. But we were sitting out there

1950
01:41:32,240 --> 01:41:34,360
Speaker 4: and we do like campfires at night, like a little

1951
01:41:34,360 --> 01:41:36,599
Speaker 4: bonfire and just kind of get to know each other

1952
01:41:36,720 --> 01:41:39,640
Speaker 4: more every night. And we had started early, so it's

1953
01:41:39,680 --> 01:41:42,040
Speaker 4: still like and we look over in this foxes jumping

1954
01:41:42,960 --> 01:41:44,920
Speaker 4: just like you see on nat geo. Right, he's jumping.

1955
01:41:45,000 --> 01:41:50,000
Speaker 4: He's snatching myself and out of the grass, and I'm like, wow,

1956
01:41:50,080 --> 01:41:53,120
Speaker 4: that's cool to see that, you know. And this young

1957
01:41:53,200 --> 01:41:55,200
Speaker 4: guy was so pumped. He said, I almost see how

1958
01:41:55,200 --> 01:41:56,720
Speaker 4: close I get. He gets his camera out and he's

1959
01:41:57,400 --> 01:41:59,360
Speaker 4: and he must have got within fifteen yards of the

1960
01:41:59,439 --> 01:42:01,600
Speaker 4: oh oh yeah. And that sucker just kept doing it

1961
01:42:01,720 --> 01:42:04,439
Speaker 4: over and over. Those are those kinds of things that

1962
01:42:04,600 --> 01:42:07,599
Speaker 4: really add to or bears will walk up. We've had bears.

1963
01:42:07,640 --> 01:42:09,719
Speaker 4: I've been doing a chapel service, so we do chapel service.

1964
01:42:09,760 --> 01:42:11,960
Speaker 4: It's optional, you don't have to go. I'm gonna offer

1965
01:42:12,040 --> 01:42:14,040
Speaker 4: to you, right, it's gonna do a quick ten minute,

1966
01:42:14,080 --> 01:42:16,639
Speaker 4: fifteen minute good word of the day. If a guy

1967
01:42:16,720 --> 01:42:20,280
Speaker 4: needs communion, you know, get communion as well. But ninety

1968
01:42:20,360 --> 01:42:22,120
Speaker 4: nine percent of the people come to those. We've only

1969
01:42:22,160 --> 01:42:25,400
Speaker 4: had maybe one or two that weren't of the same

1970
01:42:25,439 --> 01:42:27,680
Speaker 4: faith group. And that's fine, and they were cool about it.

1971
01:42:29,120 --> 01:42:32,639
Speaker 4: And this happened a few different times. One time in particularly,

1972
01:42:32,640 --> 01:42:34,320
Speaker 4: I'm doing the service and all of a sudden, everybody's

1973
01:42:34,560 --> 01:42:37,760
Speaker 4: I lose everybody, and I'm like, I look out, and

1974
01:42:37,800 --> 01:42:39,280
Speaker 4: this black bear is looking through the window.

1975
01:42:40,400 --> 01:42:41,040
Speaker 1: He's watching.

1976
01:42:41,479 --> 01:42:43,360
Speaker 4: He's watched it be he's watching the ever of course

1977
01:42:43,400 --> 01:42:46,400
Speaker 4: everybody mag you know, went right then that sucker got

1978
01:42:46,600 --> 01:42:49,599
Speaker 4: he was comfortable, he was too comfy. He cruises around

1979
01:42:49,600 --> 01:42:51,280
Speaker 4: the backside and he comes up to the front door.

1980
01:42:52,520 --> 01:42:54,639
Speaker 4: I mean, just like he lived in the joint. I've

1981
01:42:54,640 --> 01:42:56,200
Speaker 4: had a lot of bear issues, as you know. As

1982
01:42:56,240 --> 01:43:00,240
Speaker 4: you know, I had a lot of bear problems over there. Yeah,

1983
01:43:00,320 --> 01:43:03,439
Speaker 4: scared off cubs at night, used to get in my cans,

1984
01:43:03,520 --> 01:43:07,800
Speaker 4: drag a can forty yards into the brush, tear it

1985
01:43:07,880 --> 01:43:11,920
Speaker 4: up my barbecues of the back patio. I mean, just yeah,

1986
01:43:12,000 --> 01:43:14,960
Speaker 4: a lot of bear issues. But yeah, that's it. I

1987
01:43:15,040 --> 01:43:18,160
Speaker 4: think that the natural beauty, the wildlife, I think the

1988
01:43:18,280 --> 01:43:22,400
Speaker 4: montana feel, all those things are play a role in

1989
01:43:22,600 --> 01:43:23,760
Speaker 4: calming people down.

1990
01:43:24,120 --> 01:43:24,200
Speaker 2: Ye.

1991
01:43:26,479 --> 01:43:33,120
Speaker 1: So if if people out there, first responders, service members, like,

1992
01:43:33,800 --> 01:43:37,519
Speaker 1: if there's a group that feels that come and to

1993
01:43:37,600 --> 01:43:41,400
Speaker 1: see you might be good for them, Like, how do

1994
01:43:41,520 --> 01:43:43,840
Speaker 1: they proceed? And if people that are outside of that,

1995
01:43:44,240 --> 01:43:46,439
Speaker 1: they're just listeners that want to help, what you guys do?

1996
01:43:46,600 --> 01:43:47,920
Speaker 1: How do they how do they proceed?

1997
01:43:48,200 --> 01:43:49,879
Speaker 4: Yeah? The best way is they go to the website.

1998
01:43:50,439 --> 01:43:53,120
Speaker 4: All the stuff's on the on the website. If they've

1999
01:43:53,160 --> 01:43:54,840
Speaker 4: got a group they want to put together, there's apps

2000
01:43:54,840 --> 01:43:56,800
Speaker 4: they can fill out on there, or they can just

2001
01:43:56,840 --> 01:44:00,400
Speaker 4: go to task Force Heroes, Taskforce Heroes dot or YEP

2002
01:44:02,640 --> 01:44:04,479
Speaker 4: donations the same way they put it.

2003
01:44:04,560 --> 01:44:07,759
Speaker 1: But a group of guys, group of active like active

2004
01:44:07,840 --> 01:44:10,200
Speaker 1: people can go and say, hey, you know, me and

2005
01:44:10,360 --> 01:44:12,880
Speaker 1: some of my colleagues or whatever, YEP would like to

2006
01:44:13,240 --> 01:44:14,920
Speaker 1: check on the possibility of coming out.

2007
01:44:15,280 --> 01:44:15,479
Speaker 4: YEP.

2008
01:44:15,640 --> 01:44:16,439
Speaker 1: They could do it that way.

2009
01:44:16,479 --> 01:44:18,479
Speaker 4: They can. There's an email through there that comes directly

2010
01:44:18,520 --> 01:44:20,160
Speaker 4: to me that they can say, I got seven guys

2011
01:44:20,320 --> 01:44:22,360
Speaker 4: or like I said, we try to try to make

2012
01:44:22,400 --> 01:44:26,000
Speaker 4: it intimate and smaller. We fill up real quick, and

2013
01:44:26,800 --> 01:44:29,519
Speaker 4: we fill up real fast, and we're dealing with some

2014
01:44:29,640 --> 01:44:31,840
Speaker 4: maintenance issues right now that we're we're fixing because we

2015
01:44:31,880 --> 01:44:33,599
Speaker 4: had a water leak over there and some other stuff.

2016
01:44:33,640 --> 01:44:37,320
Speaker 4: But yeah, that's the that's the best way to the

2017
01:44:37,400 --> 01:44:38,160
Speaker 4: best way to do it.

2018
01:44:38,240 --> 01:44:40,439
Speaker 1: And how about people that want to support you and help.

2019
01:44:40,320 --> 01:44:42,880
Speaker 4: That that's another best way. Send an email, make a

2020
01:44:42,920 --> 01:44:45,720
Speaker 4: connection with me. I mean, they can get hold of you.

2021
01:44:46,080 --> 01:44:47,680
Speaker 4: We're right there. We see each other quite a bit.

2022
01:44:47,800 --> 01:44:52,080
Speaker 4: So any of those ways that that's the biggest. You know,

2023
01:44:52,080 --> 01:44:54,439
Speaker 4: it's one hundred percent free for these these folks, and

2024
01:44:55,880 --> 01:44:57,880
Speaker 4: you know, flying them and feeding them and cleaning and

2025
01:44:57,960 --> 01:45:00,880
Speaker 4: getting them here and all that. It's operation are fairly

2026
01:45:00,960 --> 01:45:03,360
Speaker 4: steep at a place like that, but we want to

2027
01:45:03,400 --> 01:45:05,760
Speaker 4: make it a once in a lifetime experience for him.

2028
01:45:06,200 --> 01:45:09,240
Speaker 4: Good food, cooking, wild game. A lot of them never

2029
01:45:09,320 --> 01:45:15,320
Speaker 4: tried elk or deer, turkey, any of those things. I mean,

2030
01:45:15,400 --> 01:45:19,479
Speaker 4: it's it's been a it's been amazing. I mean one

2031
01:45:19,560 --> 01:45:21,439
Speaker 4: time we we we we got a turkey right there

2032
01:45:21,479 --> 01:45:24,160
Speaker 4: on the property and smoked it up and and uh,

2033
01:45:24,320 --> 01:45:26,559
Speaker 4: they got to eat fresh turkey. Man, it was great.

2034
01:45:26,760 --> 01:45:29,519
Speaker 5: Do you guys deal with your nuisance bears on the property.

2035
01:45:30,320 --> 01:45:33,519
Speaker 4: We deal with those. Yeah, we have dealt successfully a

2036
01:45:33,600 --> 01:45:37,200
Speaker 4: few times with uh with bears. One four hundred and

2037
01:45:37,200 --> 01:45:42,080
Speaker 4: four pounder over four hundred sixteen year old bear, A

2038
01:45:42,120 --> 01:45:44,320
Speaker 4: big sucker, And I sent that picture of that big

2039
01:45:44,360 --> 01:45:44,960
Speaker 4: fatty we had.

2040
01:45:45,320 --> 01:45:46,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, you were like.

2041
01:45:46,960 --> 01:45:49,599
Speaker 4: His response was, Man, a lot of good bear grease

2042
01:45:49,640 --> 01:45:54,800
Speaker 4: out of that do that area?

2043
01:45:54,840 --> 01:45:59,960
Speaker 1: Want those cherries down along there, you know over there,

2044
01:46:00,120 --> 01:46:03,920
Speaker 1: like all over the place? Man, they just vanished the

2045
01:46:04,560 --> 01:46:05,400
Speaker 1: harvested a bear.

2046
01:46:05,640 --> 01:46:11,160
Speaker 4: Maybe yeah, well you have they stand up and you know,

2047
01:46:11,240 --> 01:46:13,840
Speaker 4: they reach up and pull them down and they'll just

2048
01:46:13,960 --> 01:46:16,880
Speaker 4: suck them all right off that yeah, right off the limb, man,

2049
01:46:17,560 --> 01:46:18,120
Speaker 4: that whole.

2050
01:46:17,960 --> 01:46:20,320
Speaker 1: Bottom end of that canyon. When the choke cherries come in,

2051
01:46:20,360 --> 01:46:22,519
Speaker 1: it's just bears all over. Choke cherries go away. Bears

2052
01:46:22,560 --> 01:46:24,479
Speaker 1: are all gone. Yeah, they take off, and then those

2053
01:46:24,520 --> 01:46:27,120
Speaker 1: wax wings show up clean up the choke cherries and

2054
01:46:27,120 --> 01:46:28,240
Speaker 1: it's the end of the whole program.

2055
01:46:28,520 --> 01:46:28,720
Speaker 4: Yep.

2056
01:46:29,000 --> 01:46:31,560
Speaker 1: But it's a little rush. It's a little flurry of activity,

2057
01:46:31,600 --> 01:46:35,800
Speaker 1: except yep, and wounded deer from getting hit. And yeah,

2058
01:46:35,960 --> 01:46:36,640
Speaker 1: we got a lot of that.

2059
01:46:38,160 --> 01:46:38,320
Speaker 5: You know.

2060
01:46:38,760 --> 01:46:40,960
Speaker 4: My wife running out going you got to kill that deer.

2061
01:46:41,240 --> 01:46:44,120
Speaker 4: I'm thinking I got one tag here, you know, it's

2062
01:46:44,160 --> 01:46:48,240
Speaker 4: a little spike or something with three legs. She's like

2063
01:46:48,320 --> 01:46:50,960
Speaker 4: you gotta do something so we get a lot of

2064
01:46:51,000 --> 01:46:54,880
Speaker 4: that stuff. Yeah, any more other questions you had? Man?

2065
01:46:54,960 --> 01:46:57,120
Speaker 1: No, Man, I'm glad I came on and, like I said,

2066
01:46:57,160 --> 01:46:59,920
Speaker 1: I just said, you know, it's been nice to it's

2067
01:47:00,080 --> 01:47:03,519
Speaker 1: been nice to meet you. And then just the little

2068
01:47:03,600 --> 01:47:05,560
Speaker 1: bits I've picked up about the work you did, I

2069
01:47:05,680 --> 01:47:06,640
Speaker 1: was just really impressed by it.

2070
01:47:06,680 --> 01:47:06,800
Speaker 5: Man.

2071
01:47:06,840 --> 01:47:08,519
Speaker 1: And then one time you invited me up to meet

2072
01:47:08,560 --> 01:47:10,400
Speaker 1: a couple of your guys. Yeah, And I could just

2073
01:47:10,479 --> 01:47:13,479
Speaker 1: tell going there, you know, as short as I was there,

2074
01:47:13,600 --> 01:47:15,080
Speaker 1: I could tell going there, I just could tell you

2075
01:47:15,200 --> 01:47:17,599
Speaker 1: had like a very special program going on. Yeah, it's

2076
01:47:17,680 --> 01:47:19,160
Speaker 1: very I can tell that the guys that were there

2077
01:47:19,240 --> 01:47:22,439
Speaker 1: were I don't know, man, I could I could see

2078
01:47:22,479 --> 01:47:24,360
Speaker 1: why they're there. I could see what they were getting

2079
01:47:24,400 --> 01:47:25,840
Speaker 1: out of it, you know what I mean? Just you

2080
01:47:25,960 --> 01:47:29,040
Speaker 1: create like a really like a I don't know, man,

2081
01:47:29,200 --> 01:47:32,599
Speaker 1: like a just in that little bit of exposure I had,

2082
01:47:32,680 --> 01:47:35,360
Speaker 1: you create this kind of amazing bubble for people. Man. Yeah,

2083
01:47:35,800 --> 01:47:38,519
Speaker 1: but I could picture being hard people to get to talk, right.

2084
01:47:39,000 --> 01:47:41,080
Speaker 4: I appreciate that. And it's not just me, it's I

2085
01:47:41,160 --> 01:47:42,799
Speaker 4: got a great team. I got great board of directors.

2086
01:47:42,840 --> 01:47:47,160
Speaker 4: They're all either former or veterans that are still serving

2087
01:47:47,280 --> 01:47:50,080
Speaker 4: or active military folks or uh, you know, I got

2088
01:47:50,080 --> 01:47:51,960
Speaker 4: a lot of LAPD guys on there, and guys from

2089
01:47:52,120 --> 01:47:55,640
Speaker 4: different places in the country, and a great board, great volunteers. Man,

2090
01:47:55,840 --> 01:47:58,400
Speaker 4: we got we couldn't do without all them, all them folks.

2091
01:47:58,479 --> 01:48:01,559
Speaker 4: And and then you know, when we moved up here,

2092
01:48:02,040 --> 01:48:04,439
Speaker 4: we just went all in, all our furniture, all stuff.

2093
01:48:04,840 --> 01:48:06,720
Speaker 4: And you know, I'm not saying that too my heart.

2094
01:48:06,720 --> 01:48:09,000
Speaker 4: I'm just saying it was a huge commitment. We didn't

2095
01:48:09,040 --> 01:48:12,320
Speaker 4: know anybody really in Montana, and we got here about

2096
01:48:12,360 --> 01:48:16,360
Speaker 4: it almost eight years ago, and and uh we're just like, okay, lord,

2097
01:48:16,400 --> 01:48:18,000
Speaker 4: you gotta do. You do your work here. And we

2098
01:48:18,120 --> 01:48:21,479
Speaker 4: filled up that first season in like three months. And uh,

2099
01:48:22,000 --> 01:48:24,280
Speaker 4: it's just just amazing stuff. So it's all my wife

2100
01:48:24,360 --> 01:48:27,120
Speaker 4: for sure and kids that that sacrificed a lot to

2101
01:48:28,000 --> 01:48:30,400
Speaker 4: make it happen. So we'll just keep on pushing forward.

2102
01:48:30,439 --> 01:48:33,320
Speaker 4: And I appreciate my relationship with you man, just being real.

2103
01:48:33,400 --> 01:48:36,040
Speaker 4: It's it's been it's been good. And I mean this

2104
01:48:36,120 --> 01:48:38,360
Speaker 4: guy helped me for hours try to find my Hebrew

2105
01:48:38,439 --> 01:48:41,080
Speaker 4: inscripted wedding band.

2106
01:48:41,560 --> 01:48:46,000
Speaker 1: Found I lost. We're out there. The metal Detector being

2107
01:48:46,080 --> 01:48:48,599
Speaker 1: my kids and man, we found You don't realize how

2108
01:48:48,640 --> 01:48:52,680
Speaker 1: many twenty two casings are out in the world. I'm

2109
01:48:52,760 --> 01:48:54,840
Speaker 1: sure you know what's funny. I was actually one of

2110
01:48:54,920 --> 01:48:57,679
Speaker 1: the camera guys I'm working with on his History Channel show.

2111
01:48:57,760 --> 01:49:00,880
Speaker 1: He'd filmed, like he worked for a long time on

2112
01:49:01,000 --> 01:49:02,200
Speaker 1: a metal detecting show.

2113
01:49:03,080 --> 01:49:04,160
Speaker 4: Oh, man, we gotta find it.

2114
01:49:04,200 --> 01:49:04,320
Speaker 5: Oh.

2115
01:49:04,360 --> 01:49:06,400
Speaker 1: I was picking his brain about that, and he was

2116
01:49:06,479 --> 01:49:09,120
Speaker 1: saying that, like, these dudes that host that show would

2117
01:49:09,120 --> 01:49:11,360
Speaker 1: have no problem hopping up that ring. But man, we

2118
01:49:11,439 --> 01:49:14,320
Speaker 1: were we got, I got. Yeah, I'm not like a

2119
01:49:14,360 --> 01:49:16,320
Speaker 1: metal detector, but me and my kids were out there

2120
01:49:16,360 --> 01:49:19,920
Speaker 1: and we were more garbage. That's a nice looking place

2121
01:49:20,000 --> 01:49:24,000
Speaker 1: for so much garbage, sub surface shockgun shells, everything. It's

2122
01:49:24,040 --> 01:49:27,360
Speaker 1: like people could trying to find a ring here man.

2123
01:49:28,720 --> 01:49:32,559
Speaker 4: Made Israel, like handmade in Israel, and my wife's got

2124
01:49:32,600 --> 01:49:33,599
Speaker 4: the match you won, and I'm.

2125
01:49:33,479 --> 01:49:37,480
Speaker 1: Like, maybe someone who's out there's a real metal detecting enthusiast.

2126
01:49:37,479 --> 01:49:41,240
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, so Shane walked out of his house. Yeah,

2127
01:49:41,320 --> 01:49:43,720
Speaker 1: he journey walks along the side of his driveway. You

2128
01:49:43,840 --> 01:49:45,120
Speaker 1: walked three hundred yards.

2129
01:49:45,439 --> 01:49:47,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, well he left the pond. We're we're you know,

2130
01:49:47,880 --> 01:49:49,920
Speaker 4: we used the pond just to let guys most of

2131
01:49:49,920 --> 01:49:51,519
Speaker 4: them never fly fish, so just to get them to

2132
01:49:51,640 --> 01:49:53,559
Speaker 4: cast and catch something, just so they get the field

2133
01:49:53,560 --> 01:49:55,160
Speaker 4: before we go to the creek or we go off site.

2134
01:49:56,040 --> 01:50:00,400
Speaker 4: And uh, I kept getting hooked with stuff, and you know,

2135
01:50:00,560 --> 01:50:02,720
Speaker 4: just trying to get sometimes guys will get snagged. You know,

2136
01:50:03,080 --> 01:50:05,640
Speaker 4: guy's got something in his ear or something, and so

2137
01:50:05,720 --> 01:50:07,200
Speaker 4: you're working through that. So I took it off, I

2138
01:50:07,240 --> 01:50:10,040
Speaker 4: put it in my pocket, walked around that pump back

2139
01:50:10,040 --> 01:50:11,960
Speaker 4: to the house, and then I went to take it

2140
01:50:12,040 --> 01:50:14,000
Speaker 4: out in my room and I had a hole in

2141
01:50:14,080 --> 01:50:17,879
Speaker 4: my pocket. Yeah, and I'm like, so somewhere, Yeah.

2142
01:50:17,760 --> 01:50:20,080
Speaker 1: It's like it's like a ten it's like not three

2143
01:50:20,160 --> 01:50:22,679
Speaker 1: hundred yards long, and it's maybe a ten foot wide

2144
01:50:22,840 --> 01:50:26,040
Speaker 1: twenty foot wide path. Yeah, but thwarted us.

2145
01:50:26,479 --> 01:50:29,320
Speaker 5: If you know, if you if you think you could

2146
01:50:29,400 --> 01:50:33,519
Speaker 5: find it, if you are a metal detecting enthusiast and

2147
01:50:33,600 --> 01:50:36,040
Speaker 5: a professional, you can write us at the meat Eater

2148
01:50:36,200 --> 01:50:39,880
Speaker 5: podcast at the meat eater dot com to offer yourself.

2149
01:50:39,560 --> 01:50:42,120
Speaker 1: And if you find it, will put together I'm just

2150
01:50:42,200 --> 01:50:44,240
Speaker 1: gonna throw this out there. If you find that, ring

2151
01:50:44,320 --> 01:50:48,519
Speaker 1: will put together a generous care package.

2152
01:50:48,840 --> 01:50:50,519
Speaker 4: Yeah. But you got.

2153
01:50:50,600 --> 01:50:52,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, say we're gonna vat you first. We're gonna vet you.

2154
01:50:53,000 --> 01:51:00,919
Speaker 1: Make sure we're gone.

2155
01:51:00,479 --> 01:51:01,400
Speaker 3: Right exactly.

2156
01:51:01,479 --> 01:51:04,000
Speaker 5: You need a CEEV as long as chains the.

2157
01:51:04,400 --> 01:51:05,840
Speaker 4: Property owner check in.

2158
01:51:07,120 --> 01:51:07,240
Speaker 5: Uh.

2159
01:51:09,160 --> 01:51:14,200
Speaker 1: Reverend Shane Yates, Yeah, former cop, current military guy.

2160
01:51:16,960 --> 01:51:17,320
Speaker 4: Chaps.

2161
01:51:18,560 --> 01:51:21,080
Speaker 1: Well, I appreciate it, man, it's a task force heroes.

2162
01:51:21,120 --> 01:51:22,000
Speaker 1: Thanks for coming out. Man.

2163
01:51:22,040 --> 01:51:24,160
Speaker 4: It's humbling. I appreciate you got each of you, you know,

2164
01:51:24,400 --> 01:51:26,800
Speaker 4: it really is. What we do is humbling, and I'm

2165
01:51:26,880 --> 01:51:30,799
Speaker 4: just blessed to be able to do it. And uh, blessed,

2166
01:51:31,160 --> 01:51:33,439
Speaker 4: blessed for all the blessings I've gotten in my life.

2167
01:51:34,439 --> 01:51:37,360
Speaker 4: And I missed all my own struggles and own stuff.

2168
01:51:37,439 --> 01:51:39,920
Speaker 4: So privilege to come on. So thanks for the time.

2169
01:51:40,360 --> 01:51:41,200
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you,