Speaker 1: Also media. Hello, welcome to Better Offline. I'm, of course
Speaker 1: your host ed Zetron. Apologies to everyone for missing the
Speaker 1: monologue last week. I know many of you have threatened
Speaker 1: my life. That's a joke. You're all very lovely about it.
Speaker 1: But we are back this week. It's Hate to Season.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be honest. Hate Season has been so much
Speaker 1: fun that everyone is just I think we're just gonna
Speaker 1: do this forever. And today I'm joined by an incredible guy.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be one of two divas coming together to
Speaker 1: maximize our joint sleigh. I'm joined by Henry Zebrowski of
Speaker 1: last podcast on the Left. Henry, how are you?
Speaker 2: I am good? I'm filled with rage, with rage about
Speaker 2: one I'm ready. Honestly, I hate the goddamn metaverse. It's
Speaker 2: I saw it pop up the other day. I saw
Speaker 2: a person mention the metaverse. And there is one guy,
Speaker 2: Jamie something guy on Twitter you can find him who.
Speaker 2: I watched him go from Crypto from clubhouse to crypt
Speaker 2: web three to NFTs to Metaverse to AI and now
Speaker 2: he's back to Metaverse and I think that just people.
Speaker 2: He's wrong.
Speaker 1: He's wrong, but also he's professionally but that's crazy, Like
Speaker 1: people are very unfair of me about my correct opinions.
Speaker 1: But it's insane to me how many of these consultant
Speaker 1: swindlers still exist and how there are still people being like, yeah, dude, yeah,
Speaker 1: the metaverse is still here, man, I'll pay you.
Speaker 2: I'll do this because they're desperate. They're desperate for some
Speaker 2: other realm of productivity and work. There's something they really thought.
Speaker 2: They had us pegged during COVID, Like at some point
Speaker 2: they were like, they miss work, they miss work, they
Speaker 2: miss they miss they miss people, they miss us, and
Speaker 2: they have this idea of like, oh, the social network.
Speaker 2: Like what we have to do is convince them they're
Speaker 2: hanging out. We have to convince all of them that
Speaker 2: they're all just gonna like, oh no, no, it's it's
Speaker 2: it's work, sure, but it's like a lifestyle. Work is
Speaker 2: like your lifestyle.
Speaker 1: Do you remember that whole period as well, just before
Speaker 1: the metaverse, where they were all of the remote work
Speaker 1: articles that were like, we're missing the serendipity at the office.
Speaker 1: We're missing it. You can't bump into a friend at
Speaker 1: the office and have these thoughts. I love that because
Speaker 1: it was always written by a boss, because you could
Speaker 1: tell because everyone else at work is like, I just
Speaker 1: want to put my fucking headphones and I just want
Speaker 1: to get my job done.
Speaker 2: Please leave me alone. We have crawled into the heads
Speaker 2: of these giant corporate like that's kind of what we're
Speaker 2: living in. I feel like we're living in a giant ketamine.
Speaker 2: Like we're in a ketamine fueled dream right now, Like
Speaker 2: we are.
Speaker 1: In a live inside the ketamine dream. But what is
Speaker 1: the who is the dreamer?
Speaker 2: Dreamer is people like Zuckerberg and these guys that are
Speaker 2: kind of forming how they think we view reality. They're
Speaker 2: like trying to put that on us. They're trying to say,
Speaker 2: we love work, we love productivity as a as a
Speaker 2: as a as an animal, as a human animal. They
Speaker 2: believe we crave crushing it, we crave dividends, we clave
Speaker 2: we love hustling. And I've just we've never just been
Speaker 2: in this place now where we're kind of being dragged
Speaker 2: through their version of the future which is just not
Speaker 2: panning out, you know, the metaverse. I get a show
Speaker 2: in the metaverse once right in The Men of Us,
Speaker 2: which one it was something Yes, I want It was
Speaker 2: something like so everybody was a little weeble wobble person, right,
Speaker 2: because they had to eliminate general Remember when they had
Speaker 2: to go through the whole thing because they had to
Speaker 2: eliminate lower half of people.
Speaker 1: Oh, yes, because they said they were bringing in legs,
Speaker 1: but then the legs didn't didn't pan out.
Speaker 2: Legs, yes, because legs mean penis and balls or vagina, right,
Speaker 2: And so what happened was is that as soon as
Speaker 2: those were in play, as soon as legs were in play,
Speaker 2: penis and balls and vaginas were in plays. And then
Speaker 2: immediately the people started getting sexually harassed on the metapas.
Speaker 1: But did they ever put the legs in? I thought
Speaker 1: they weren't able to get them in at all.
Speaker 2: No, because that was the let's just say, I believe
Speaker 2: you saw several attempts at this, this idea of like,
Speaker 2: we can't put in legs, You can't put in legs.
Speaker 2: You mean to tell me you built an entire second
Speaker 2: reality and you can't put in fucking legs, all right?
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean practically speaking, putting in functional legs
Speaker 1: that mapped to movement from the user would be difficult.
Speaker 2: But it's just I never really understand That's now even
Speaker 2: when there there's the aesthetics have like a flat like
Speaker 2: a candle. Who cares. It's as soon as people saw legs,
Speaker 2: they saw genitals, and they started saying horrific stuff to
Speaker 2: each other on the metaverse, and so they got rid
Speaker 2: of leggs.
Speaker 1: Tell me about this metaverse experience you have this New
Speaker 1: Year's Eve.
Speaker 2: So I was asked to do It was during COVID.
Speaker 2: I was asked to do the comedy for a New
Speaker 2: Year's Eve party quote unquote in a build out. It
Speaker 2: was like a metaverse build out. It was one of
Speaker 2: those that they had done it for this specific event,
Speaker 2: and the goal was that people were walking around this
Speaker 2: virtual space and they would come upon you, and then
Speaker 2: your camera would turn on and you'd see quote unquote
Speaker 2: the real person there. I was in a character. He
Speaker 2: was wildly invasive. Everybody was obviously had agreed to it.
Speaker 2: But I was Cheddargoblin, which is a character from a
Speaker 2: movie called Mandy Right. I was playing that, Yeah, this
Speaker 2: is my life. This is called the Entertainer's life. Ed.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, they gave me one thousand dollars. That's
Speaker 2: worth it. It was it was for the tears because
Speaker 2: then I put in I propped up, I have a
Speaker 2: build out of the cheddar Gomblet and from Mandy right,
Speaker 2: I have a poll from the original model. I put
Speaker 2: it in a chair and I put it on, put
Speaker 2: a camera on it. Yeah, and then I was talking
Speaker 2: as him roasting people that would arrive to the little
Speaker 2: comedy build out right that they had. And the thing
Speaker 2: is is that it's what happened after every single COVID
Speaker 2: stream show is that obviously it was janky. It was strange.
Speaker 2: People were not even though they thought they were prepped
Speaker 2: that their cameras would turn on, they were not prepped
Speaker 2: that their cameras would turn on and they would get scared,
Speaker 2: and it was bad. You know, It's like all that
Speaker 2: type of stuff. But in the end it really is.
Speaker 2: Which is what I discovered afterwards is the closing of
Speaker 2: the laptop after this and the silence.
Speaker 1: Oh was it just like constant noise in the well.
Speaker 2: Just the idea of like, as a performer like this
Speaker 2: was kind of one of the big issues I had
Speaker 2: to just even just during COVID, which is the cavernous
Speaker 2: silence after the show that you have now done on
Speaker 2: Zoom in which you have been in a sort of
Speaker 2: similacrum of real life for half a second, and then
Speaker 2: as soon as the laptop closes, all that illusion is shattered,
Speaker 2: and now you're just sitting in silence. And there's a
Speaker 2: part of me that thinks that that is kind of
Speaker 2: the issue with the phenomenon as a whole, which is
Speaker 2: this fake, a fake version of society that they wanted
Speaker 2: to recreate for us in order for us to obey
Speaker 2: whatever rules they want to set up for us. And
Speaker 2: so like, as I was in this, I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm a part of the normalizing process of this, Like
Speaker 2: this is a I am a person, and I am
Speaker 2: here doing this as a way to show all of you. Look,
Speaker 2: even if the world is uninhabitable, even if all the
Speaker 2: corporations of the world make the surface a giant like
Speaker 2: lava stream, the rest of us can still go underground.
Speaker 2: And don't worry. There can still be the Friends reboot.
Speaker 2: Don't worry. There can still be any type of Sharman
Speaker 2: you like. It can be there, It can be underground.
Speaker 2: We can live underground. We don't need all of this
Speaker 2: real life, right.
Speaker 1: I also think it's just to your point about living
Speaker 1: inside the heads. It is really funny watching them try
Speaker 1: and sell it, like make stuff to sell us when
Speaker 1: they do not speak to real people, like yeah, what
Speaker 1: what are you fucking pigs like sitting at desks?
Speaker 2: Right? You want to walk around h world?
Speaker 1: I guess Look it's the few pigs like this, right,
Speaker 1: What do you think?
Speaker 2: The thing about the human version of the right now,
Speaker 2: what I see is the in the IRL version of
Speaker 2: the metaverse are the corporate like it is not only
Speaker 2: a it's an apartment complex, it's where you work. It's
Speaker 2: also where the the you got your slop balls, and
Speaker 2: then you can go over here and you can get
Speaker 2: your face injections, and you can go over here and
Speaker 2: you can do the thing that makes you look and sound,
Speaker 2: and you can get the clothes and make look just
Speaker 2: like everybody else.
Speaker 1: The Google version of worry Free from Sorry to bother you.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes there is. That's that's like one soft rollout
Speaker 2: right for I.
Speaker 1: Do believe they'll back though they've started pulling back on
Speaker 1: corporate benefits, So I think it is going to be
Speaker 1: the moment a company offers housing within their campus. That's
Speaker 1: how you know that they've just lost the plot and
Speaker 1: they're like a how to fuck it? How do we
Speaker 1: do this just give them housing?
Speaker 2: I guess I genuinely believe all of this is the
Speaker 2: dry run for some form of United States of Peter Teel.
Speaker 3: See.
Speaker 1: That's that's the thing though, because I see that argument.
Speaker 1: But whenever I read them or hear them talk, or
Speaker 1: actually look at the success of them trying to do
Speaker 1: like the network state stuff, which always seems to go
Speaker 1: poorly because running a city or a country is hard.
Speaker 1: It's hard, they also see it fall apart, and I
Speaker 1: see them put like, AI in general, is this thing
Speaker 1: that's very much a cultureless person. I personally doesn't know
Speaker 1: anything how they think.
Speaker 2: Knowledge or culture works.
Speaker 1: Culture is just when you go to the art spender
Speaker 1: and you're like, what art, please, I've got one hundred dollars.
Speaker 1: How much art can I get for this?
Speaker 2: Oh? I'm just humans hanging out spending time and in
Speaker 2: culture too. Yeah, it's like it's this culture is literally
Speaker 2: just a it was a not to not to minimize it,
Speaker 2: but it's almost a to me in my mind, it's
Speaker 2: a it's a it's a product of our connectivity as
Speaker 2: an animal, as a psychic animal. I see, that's the
Speaker 2: point of it. And so they're just trying to. They
Speaker 2: don't they think that day Okay, they hate though.
Speaker 1: They really have like a deep homophobia towards anything emotional
Speaker 1: or sensual, also feminine, is what they do.
Speaker 2: I do believe that that that is the literal vibe
Speaker 2: that I get, which is this idea of you look
Speaker 2: at Peter Thiel talking, look at these people talking, and
Speaker 2: I guess that's what it is.
Speaker 1: Is that is still though, but you're saying this like
Speaker 1: a self loathing to it.
Speaker 2: I just mean in terms of his the way they
Speaker 2: view it as frivolous and stupid, right, But our our
Speaker 2: need for connection is something that is replaced. That is
Speaker 2: very trindset. Yes, and that that is and it's extremely
Speaker 2: easy to place. And so what they didn't do little things.
Speaker 2: What you were saying too, is that the idea of
Speaker 2: a corporate culture. It's like when I was working in
Speaker 2: office jobs, the idea of a culture. I was like,
Speaker 2: oh no, no, no, no, I'm here to get health insurance.
Speaker 2: Like I'm not here to meet you, buddy, Like I'm
Speaker 2: here for health insurance, you know, Like I'm here to work,
Speaker 2: like to just get the fuck out of here and
Speaker 2: go home. But they want they just want all of us.
Speaker 2: They want every minute of our fucking breathing lives.
Speaker 1: Well, that kind of reminds me again around just before
Speaker 1: the metaverse, all of the anti remote work stuff that
Speaker 1: talked about office culture is like, office culture is so important.
Speaker 1: You need office culture. Office culture is what brings the
Speaker 1: company together. Missing for most of these articles was a
Speaker 1: definition of office culture because it was just kind of
Speaker 1: work propaganda.
Speaker 2: And doing what your boss wants you to do. Yes, oh,
Speaker 2: that is what office culture means. Mm hmmm, because which
Speaker 2: means you're living in a dictator. You're living in his
Speaker 2: you're living in his reality.
Speaker 1: And on top of that, it's like you, oh, so
Speaker 1: you're saying we should have a culture that involves supporting
Speaker 1: labor and respecting labor and valuing work and supporting us
Speaker 1: Like oh god, no, no, no, no, sorry, sorry, don't
Speaker 1: get us wrong. It's the culture of the office, not
Speaker 1: the people in it.
Speaker 2: It is the full tables. Yes, we have there's a
Speaker 2: we got a never ending soup bowl.
Speaker 1: M he loves I used I used to have a
Speaker 1: wee work long ago, and I never tried the beer.
Speaker 1: And when I finally tried it, I'm like, Wow, these
Speaker 1: people fucking hate us because it was like the worst beer.
Speaker 1: They could have put like a keg of bud Light and.
Speaker 2: It would have been fine.
Speaker 1: But they somehow found like a beer that tasted not
Speaker 1: quite as bad as Natty Light.
Speaker 2: But and they just and then but it's their where
Speaker 2: it's the wee work of beer.
Speaker 1: Yes, it really is. It's like the beer slop.
Speaker 2: Yeah, these I find it we are not living up
Speaker 2: to their expectations.
Speaker 3: Ed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's what it is, is that we're
Speaker 2: really not living up to their expectations. We're not dying
Speaker 2: fast enough, we're not working hard enough. And that's the thing,
Speaker 2: is that we really should be working and dying up
Speaker 2: until the very minute, the very minute that we die.
Speaker 2: Technically we should be productive in that it is. And
Speaker 2: that's why, you know, when I hear the argument like
Speaker 2: about how people like me should be having kids, and
Speaker 2: then I hear where the argument's coming from, and I
Speaker 2: hear it's about me keeping up the ever exponentially rising
Speaker 2: capitalistic output. That's really all they're concerned about. It's other
Speaker 2: enough workers. Yeah, it's really funny.
Speaker 1: We're going to get the listener, the occasional listeners who
Speaker 1: are like because occasionally with. I think we've got a
Speaker 1: fairly left leaning audience, but occasionally, I'm sure you're listening now,
Speaker 1: one of you guys who's like a straight up like
Speaker 1: somehow a center left person who's very pro work would
Speaker 1: be like, whoa, whoa whoa. Office culture's importance that everyone
Speaker 1: knows what they're doing their job. I know why I'm
Speaker 1: doing my job make money. Well, I'm an entertainer now,
Speaker 1: I guess not guess it's a real job. But I
Speaker 1: remember the officers I've worked in. The one that was
Speaker 1: the worst was the one that I actually respected the
Speaker 1: most for just not pretending there was a work culture.
Speaker 1: They didn't have any of that shit. They were just like,
Speaker 1: you need to do that, this enough, or we fucking
Speaker 1: fire you. It's p off truly not marrish place.
Speaker 2: But it didn't try.
Speaker 1: No one tried to pretend like we're a family.
Speaker 2: Hit no one. No, this is jail. Unless you're working
Speaker 2: at a not for profit helping people directly, there is
Speaker 2: absolutely no reason for you to have a fucking thesis
Speaker 2: statement outside of we're company that makes goods for people,
Speaker 2: or we provide X and we pay you to do X.
Speaker 2: That is it. That's all we do like it's there,
Speaker 2: doesn't even have to be special in that. And this
Speaker 2: is the problem is that where I see it from
Speaker 2: literally from reality television shows all the way up to
Speaker 2: this top. Now this concept of everything has to have
Speaker 2: like uh presented story. Everybody already has to be arriving
Speaker 2: with a character arc ready to go locked in. And
Speaker 2: now the bosses are doing that. The bosses have are
Speaker 2: applying a character arc to us. They are saying they're
Speaker 2: trying to tell us what we are gonna do for them.
Speaker 2: And now I feel like we're in this process of
Speaker 2: they are going to try over the next decade or so,
Speaker 2: to kill as many of us as possible, to literally
Speaker 2: weed out the people that are against it. They're gonna
Speaker 2: make us sick. They're gonna put bad things in the food,
Speaker 2: They're gonna pull out all of the things protecting the environment.
Speaker 2: They're extremely sure they're gonna be able to beat all
Speaker 2: of those for themselves, right, And then what they're gonna
Speaker 2: do is create a breakoff civilization. All of this is
Speaker 2: a dry run for them to leave us behind.
Speaker 1: The funny thing is is, though I believe you that
Speaker 1: that's what they may plan, I.
Speaker 2: Just I mean the plan. It's the plan.
Speaker 1: I don't think they're competent enough to prove it. Because
Speaker 1: the metav Hus was the I think Clubhouse was the
Speaker 1: beginning for me, but the Metavhus was the moment when
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, you don't speak to any real
Speaker 1: people like you.
Speaker 2: Just the house was the single dumbest than giantest, thank god,
Speaker 2: flaming pile of waste of money of anything I have
Speaker 2: ever that was so stupid. I was gonna almost use
Speaker 2: a presidential word ad it was so stupid that the
Speaker 2: whole thing, I cannot believe the whole thing needs to
Speaker 2: be deleted. That it was just repackaging intercoms. If it
Speaker 2: was repackaging a zoom call, a conference call.
Speaker 1: It's like, do you ever wanted really really really really
Speaker 1: bad non produced radio.
Speaker 2: With people that thought they were great? Welcome to clubhouse.
Speaker 1: Do you want to hear vcs talk for hours and
Speaker 1: say multiple slurs? Well, guess well, we have a place
Speaker 1: for you.
Speaker 2: We already have podcasts. Man. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But the thing is, though it was I remember getting
Speaker 1: The reason that it got to me Clubhouse specifically was
Speaker 1: because the amount of people I talked to was like,
Speaker 1: this is the future, man, it's the future. This is
Speaker 1: how everything's gonna get done. I voice, what's your clubhouse stretch?
Speaker 2: What's your every But are you how many times I
Speaker 2: heard that fucking sentence? And I was just like, this
Speaker 2: super flu is gonna kill all of us? That was
Speaker 2: like the only that was my name. I was like
Speaker 2: terrified of dying. Yes, I was like, we're all gonna
Speaker 2: fucking die. And you want me to repackage radio again,
Speaker 2: I've already done it, dude, I did it fifteen years ago,
Speaker 2: just like the Good Doctor.
Speaker 4: I am a podcaster. Yeah, it's but.
Speaker 1: It was also just a moment where I was like
Speaker 1: looking at all of these supposedly smart people, all these
Speaker 1: people who are meant to really know what they're fucking
Speaker 1: talked about, and watching them as they just went yeah,
Speaker 1: this is this is crazy, man. And then at the
Speaker 1: same time, I've been reading all this anti remote stuff
Speaker 1: and I was like, wait a minute, all of these
Speaker 1: are written by managers or bosses who aren't in the office.
Speaker 1: And then it was just kind of obvious, but none
Speaker 1: of these people interact with their business. Is all regular people,
Speaker 1: so they're just the things that they make do not
Speaker 1: reflect solving human problems. And then the meta us comes
Speaker 1: along and half most of the media was like, yep,
Speaker 1: this makes perfect sense, and I as a gamer, was
Speaker 1: like you were describing World of Warcraft or like an MMRPG,
Speaker 1: you were just describing going online in a group I played.
Speaker 1: EverQuest I have the skin already happened?
Speaker 2: And also it looks like somebody read the book snow Crash,
Speaker 2: like one of the one of their aides read the
Speaker 2: book snow Crash at some point in college vaguely described
Speaker 2: the concept of making real estate out of nothing, which
Speaker 2: I think really was what the metaverse was about. Was
Speaker 2: his idea of recreating a world in which they could
Speaker 2: own everything, yet they wanted to own the next Internet.
Speaker 2: That was very much what Zuckerberg wanted. That was the idea.
Speaker 2: Is that they would have said and they would again
Speaker 2: set all the rules. They'd set all the rules, they'd
Speaker 2: already had set up, all the real estate parameters. They
Speaker 2: you'd show up into this like brand new world of
Speaker 2: a thing, and then you'd be described, oh my god,
Speaker 2: there's a McDonald's. Oh my god, there's a fucking pizza hut.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, because they've already bought into this real
Speaker 2: estate concept. Because they were just trying to figure out.
Speaker 2: I also feel like that's a part of it. They
Speaker 2: saw some of the writing on the wall of like
Speaker 2: it's gonna be hard to get these fuckers back in
Speaker 2: the office. These fuckers went home and they're fucking enjoying
Speaker 2: their They just do it.
Speaker 1: They're doing as much work, if not more, and they
Speaker 1: seem happy.
Speaker 2: That shit fucking hate Wait. Wait, wait, I did you
Speaker 2: see I want to smell what he's eating. I want
Speaker 2: to look I want to hear what he's listening to.
Speaker 2: I want to ask him about his wife. I want
Speaker 2: to lookt his wife, I want to think about his wife.
Speaker 2: And so what I think that like, that's what I
Speaker 2: think turns into right, Yeah, So they just then realized, like, oh,
Speaker 2: but what if we could do it so we can
Speaker 2: bring them into this other world and then we own
Speaker 2: it's like that, it's it's real. Then eventually we can
Speaker 2: let go. Yeah, then we can let go of real
Speaker 2: life real estate. Then maybe if we build it all
Speaker 2: in the in the metaverse, just on that great books
Speaker 2: no crash, anybody read, the end we could do is
Speaker 2: we could build out this amazing new real estate system
Speaker 2: while the earth eats itself alive on the surface. I
Speaker 2: do think that that's the other side. What we're also
Speaker 2: seeing is the other side of this too, which is
Speaker 2: why they were all showed up at the inauguration, because
Speaker 2: they were all so excited for the fact that they
Speaker 2: were going to just be like, let's boil the planet.
Speaker 2: Let's boil the surface of the planet. And then they
Speaker 2: have to come to the metaverse. They have to come
Speaker 2: to us because we're the only ones that are going
Speaker 2: to have the stuff to protect them.
Speaker 1: It's really funny as well, because everything was saying is true,
Speaker 1: but they left out because their lack of this, their
Speaker 1: lack of connection to anything it working. They didn't check
Speaker 1: if it worked. They also left us out. It also
Speaker 1: didn't work.
Speaker 2: That's the best part, and that's the best part is
Speaker 2: that what I don't know us human beings are fast
Speaker 2: and there's no They have tried to model us. They
Speaker 2: have tried to model us again and again, and they've
Speaker 2: looked at history and they've done all the number crunching,
Speaker 2: and they can't figure it out. They can't they can't
Speaker 2: figure it out. They all of these things fail because
Speaker 2: they legitimately are operating in a fantasy world. They're operating
Speaker 2: outside of reality. They because they believe they can imprint there.
Speaker 2: They can literally just put their reality on us. They
Speaker 2: just think that they can do that. Well, look at
Speaker 2: Lemis and look at us, and then you see it's
Speaker 2: actually super difficult. It's actually really weird. I actually think
Speaker 2: part of what broke my brain was in the twenty
Speaker 2: sixteen election when Trump won in the first place. That
Speaker 2: was the first time I saw something and I was like, oh, wow,
Speaker 2: elections might actually do something. Yeah. It was like the
Speaker 2: first time I realized that the fix might not be
Speaker 2: entirely in from people that actually are in control. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I I definitely like, I didn't get particularly political until
Speaker 1: after that. I will admit to being completely ignorant of stuff.
Speaker 2: So why would I. I didn't feel these things. And
Speaker 2: then everything changed.
Speaker 1: Then everything happened, and then it was do you suddenly
Speaker 1: look backwards You're like, oh, did I miss everything? And
Speaker 1: I'm still learning as well a lot of this stuff.
Speaker 1: And I feel like when you saw all of them
Speaker 1: turn up at the White House, it was so fucking grim.
Speaker 1: But I saw people who were surprised and that really
Speaker 1: made me laugh. The people were like, wait, what, huh,
Speaker 1: why are they kissing up. They said three years ago
Speaker 1: that they liked me.
Speaker 2: Huh, there's a part of me you see. This is
Speaker 2: my problem is that I look at this and it
Speaker 2: made me laugh. Oh. Yes, I finally felt like I'm correct.
Speaker 2: I'm correct. They're all on, they all and they couldn't
Speaker 2: give a fuck. No, they couldn't give a fucking shit
Speaker 2: about our lives. The only reason they want to replace
Speaker 2: us so bad. And that's the thing when we're talking
Speaker 2: about ED, I actually got turned on your work about
Speaker 2: this idea that we're going to be hit in this
Speaker 2: AI wall, and I could not be more in agreement.
Speaker 2: There's a part of my brain that sayings like, where's
Speaker 2: the guy that wants to make the trillion dollars that
Speaker 2: finally makes the little robot that puts dirty dishes in
Speaker 2: the dishwashing machine. That's what we want. What we want
Speaker 2: is a little robot man that I can yell at,
Speaker 2: that can do does laundry, does put the clothes away,
Speaker 2: and does the dishes that hit Henry.
Speaker 1: The pro is that's really difficult.
Speaker 2: Like that's the thing.
Speaker 1: They're like, Okay, can we do stuff that would help people?
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know, wash that flaws we kind of
Speaker 1: got vacuum robots.
Speaker 2: But sucking. They scare my dogs. Yeah, I want a
Speaker 2: thing that can pet the dog. But also when it
Speaker 2: comes down to it, I don't need it to be
Speaker 2: God in the machine because guess what, the real God
Speaker 2: doesn't exist, and the real God gives children aids. I
Speaker 2: don't need another one. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Also I don't know. None of this works, Like just
Speaker 1: none of it work. None of it works.
Speaker 2: It's not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen. But also,
Speaker 2: within ed, why do we do about continuing to be
Speaker 2: in their delusion? We break it?
Speaker 1: Like that's what I'm doing, Like that's the thing right
Speaker 1: now as as we talk, I've recently been working on
Speaker 1: this piece about how like Anthropic admitted in Core they
Speaker 1: made five billion dollars cumulatively like of all time, which
Speaker 1: when you follow their previous revenue reports, does not make sense.
Speaker 1: And I'm arguing with people constantly all through today leading
Speaker 1: up to this because what has actually what the real
Speaker 1: power of these people is is that they've they control
Speaker 1: like we live in their world through narratives, the narratives
Speaker 1: that are created, and it is you it's true, Yep,
Speaker 1: it's Elon Musk buying Twitter. Yes, it's Google Search, Yes
Speaker 1: it's this, But a lot of it is just institutions
Speaker 1: like see in c NBC New York Times.
Speaker 2: I'd like they are.
Speaker 1: Captured, but not necessarily by the entities, but by the ideologies.
Speaker 1: The ideology is the AI will be big. AI will
Speaker 1: be big. It's not that it's oh, it may be,
Speaker 1: it's it will be.
Speaker 2: They can't say how you notice that too? Right? They
Speaker 2: all are like all this stuff about AI and they
Speaker 2: project all of these but none of them actually says specifically,
Speaker 2: what do you mean, like, what are the uses of AI?
Speaker 2: Like what exactly? You say? Oh, it has all these uses.
Speaker 2: It's inevitable, it's gonna replace all of these things. And
Speaker 2: it's more like, but to what end? How al So, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like, what was it doing that? I don't think
Speaker 2: it is, dude, because guess what, man, guess what? You've
Speaker 2: this ship with the fucking WEIMO When they came out
Speaker 2: and they said that they can't they have to kick
Speaker 2: it to some guy in the Philippines to dry drive it.
Speaker 2: If it gets specifically stuck with.
Speaker 1: With way Mo, that's not even generative AI. Because they
Speaker 1: love to say ais that you conflate them WAYM kind
Speaker 1: of works way most interesting because it's interesting, it's interesting,
Speaker 1: it's an actual thing that drives people around. I think
Speaker 1: that there are a ton of issues that I will
Speaker 1: go into in a future episode. But with like large
Speaker 1: language models, I have been and I'm gonna say this
Speaker 1: in passing. I'm not going to go into depth because
Speaker 1: I don't want them to people to get mad at me.
Speaker 1: But I'm currently learning to code, and the more I
Speaker 1: learn about the code, the more I get scared about
Speaker 1: people using large language models to code because I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm getting worried that there are software engineers out there
Speaker 1: that can't read code and just copypaste it from place,
Speaker 1: or that they're willing to ship code that kind of
Speaker 1: looks right but they don't really understand. I'm not saying
Speaker 1: this is all software engineers, but I'm worried that the
Speaker 1: software engineers they're building these lms for are the ones
Speaker 1: that don't know what they're fucking talking about.
Speaker 2: Buddy, I think that that is exactly what we're seeing here.
Speaker 2: I think that we are in oh No. I literally
Speaker 2: think that this is a it's all human lead. All
Speaker 2: of the issues are human lead it is still because
Speaker 2: you would need a perfect AI to make a perfect AI, right,
Speaker 2: you would need it's it's too human, it's too janky.
Speaker 2: We are my whole view, one of my more I
Speaker 2: guess you could guess to call it a mystical view.
Speaker 2: But I think one of the problems I have with
Speaker 2: AI is I do believe that there is like a
Speaker 2: one percent of the human brain that we just can't
Speaker 2: we literally can't see if we wanted to see it,
Speaker 2: because we're looking at ourselves. That there's like a like
Speaker 2: in terms of just the observer gets in the way
Speaker 2: of the thing that we need to be looking at
Speaker 2: right Like we are, there's a part of our consciousness
Speaker 2: that we will never duplicate ever. We just want don't
Speaker 2: even just on thinking we don't. This is what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: is that at the very bottom of it, we don't
Speaker 2: really understand what the key is. So how is a
Speaker 2: bunch of cargo short wearing, basement dwelling coders sitting in
Speaker 2: a place that probably have never kissed a girl or
Speaker 2: a man before, and then now they're gonna make the
Speaker 2: new human thought machine, you know what I mean? Like
Speaker 2: that's kind of like what we're seeing. So what we're
Speaker 2: seeing here is it's all based. It's all it's turtles
Speaker 2: all the way down, and it's just gonna keep going.
Speaker 1: With the software engineers, I found that there's this real
Speaker 1: we're seeing this schism between those types of basement dweller
Speaker 1: in cell types. There are the coaders who know just
Speaker 1: enough to get by and keep that job without being fired,
Speaker 1: and then the people who actually do software engineering, who
Speaker 1: are relatively normal folks who are just going about their
Speaker 1: lives and now.
Speaker 2: They are people like the truth. They view it as
Speaker 2: like because I know that it can go as far
Speaker 2: as to being like an art form and like a
Speaker 2: it's a whole thing. But again that points to not
Speaker 2: to create an absolutely bedrock structure for a new conscious
Speaker 2: entity on it doesn't sound like the way that works.
Speaker 1: What's the summation of what code is is not nixaresh,
Speaker 1: good mind, mate. The point where it's like coding is
Speaker 1: not just writing code. There is an art form to
Speaker 1: it cal Newport as well. It is as well where
Speaker 1: it's like it's a there is a cultural awareness. There
Speaker 1: is awareness of how one constructs stuff. If you I
Speaker 1: don't know the way I put it is like, how
Speaker 1: comfortable would you be feeling about a building where I
Speaker 1: don't know the architect only kind of knew what.
Speaker 2: Materials were in it.
Speaker 1: It's most I think it's mostly bricks.
Speaker 2: I legitimately think that that is Another big issue is
Speaker 2: that it's they're they low they're low balling the creation
Speaker 2: of the New God. You know, like they're literally like
Speaker 2: nickel and diming it with guys, and they're creating these
Speaker 2: dumb deadlines and they're creating all of these things where
Speaker 2: it's like, you know, if Bitter Tiel really wanted to
Speaker 2: take over the very globe, he has, to my mind,
Speaker 2: he has to have more like of a thousand year
Speaker 2: view like with the old like the the way that
Speaker 2: they view the world more and like China and stuff
Speaker 2: like that, where they he needs more of a longer Yeah,
Speaker 2: but who's gonna take this bord Henry. That's not American capitalism.
Speaker 2: Tell me about it, bro, I tell me about it.
Speaker 2: I got fucking agents, fucking breathing out my neck every day,
Speaker 2: all right, and I do podcasting. I can't imagine what
Speaker 2: these idiots, all these people in the fake Money Realm
Speaker 2: and then the fake Computer God Realm are what the
Speaker 2: pressure is from the inside for them all to make
Speaker 2: all this bullshit money.
Speaker 1: I have to wonder if the people inside the labs though,
Speaker 1: at this point, as they kind of it's become kind
Speaker 1: of obvious that like, this isn't really doing the thing.
Speaker 1: They don't actually they haven't made any gods, and now
Speaker 1: it's just kind of like, uh, what we're doing because
Speaker 1: I think they're all just fucking around, not in like
Speaker 1: a completely labor free way. They're just like doing experiments
Speaker 1: and spending like millions of dollars of computer at dates,
Speaker 1: being like what if this works, what if this works?
Speaker 2: What if this works? Ed does this? I'm a CEO?
Speaker 2: That's what I've learned. When you know I've learned about
Speaker 2: being a CEO? What is it? The only job replaceable
Speaker 2: be a by aie here's a ceo? Oh what Literally,
Speaker 2: it's the easiest, it's the dumbest. They have nothing but
Speaker 2: like not to be like I work very hard blah
Speaker 2: blah blah. But they have plenty of time. They can
Speaker 2: just sit and think about these dumb things all day
Speaker 2: and play around with it, and they're just waiting for enough.
Speaker 2: Like I gus also think there's a massive obviously it's capitalism,
Speaker 2: but the lateral moves, these guys just get to make
Speaker 2: like they get to just sort of like decimate a company,
Speaker 2: decimate a bunch of stuff, lose everything, and then they
Speaker 2: get to just kind of jump ship to another thing.
Speaker 2: And I tell you my favorite one.
Speaker 1: So there's a guy called Jay Perk who is the
Speaker 1: co CEO of a company called lace Works. I believe
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna check that on air and yeah, see
Speaker 1: lace Works. So this company, yeah, lace Work. So this
Speaker 1: company was famous for doing an event where they handed
Speaker 1: out thirty thousand dollars worth of Lululemon gift cards in
Speaker 1: a night to convince people to use their software. So
Speaker 1: that guy and that company into the fucking ground, and
Speaker 1: you know what happened. He got a job at Meta
Speaker 1: and now he heads up one of the AI divisions
Speaker 1: in Microsoft.
Speaker 2: The meritocracy's real, what is it? Do they not? At
Speaker 2: some point it has to almost be purposeful. It has
Speaker 2: to be like, do you think that they do it
Speaker 2: almost in a way. What if there is a game
Speaker 2: being played to where they all know it's not gonna happen,
Speaker 2: and we all know it's not gonna happen, but they are.
Speaker 2: We're all like, all of these middle men have propped
Speaker 2: up the economy with this shit. Yeah, so it almost
Speaker 2: kind of feels like it's it's almost like they're making
Speaker 2: money on the constant rug pull and the moving of
Speaker 2: all of the stuff back and forth. It's almost like
Speaker 2: maybe it's good to hire somebody that will purposely blow
Speaker 2: it all up so then they never have to get
Speaker 2: it done.
Speaker 1: I just think I think it's more stupid than that.
Speaker 1: I think it is they hire people who look and
Speaker 1: sound like that, who they've worked with before, who have
Speaker 1: the right things on LinkedIn, who then go who then
Speaker 1: can say that I have this theory the era of
Speaker 1: the business I I call it where it's like these
Speaker 1: people are just morons, and if you look at they're morons,
Speaker 1: If you look at them as dipshits without much strategy,
Speaker 1: the world actually makes a way more sense than.
Speaker 2: This is what we've been saying, you know, we've been
Speaker 2: saying on the show, this idea of like trying to
Speaker 2: come back from conspiracy theory and just understand that there's
Speaker 2: just way more human beings being extremely bad at really
Speaker 2: important jobs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and those are the humans that run these companies
Speaker 1: because like, if you've ever heard Sachin Adella talk CEO
Speaker 1: of Microsoft, it is like sustaining one hundred concussions a second.
Speaker 1: It's insane, he meanders. There was an interview I saw
Speaker 1: him give in Davos, I think, where he spoke for
Speaker 1: three straight minutes to a yes or no question, and
Speaker 1: it's just like, and this is I think, as a journalist,
Speaker 1: you should just be able to get out like a
Speaker 1: taser at that point. You don't have to use it,
Speaker 1: but you can just like start crackling it a bit
Speaker 1: like yep, uh huh, yeah is there.
Speaker 2: Why does no one ever just say just straight to
Speaker 2: stand up and be like, excuse me, sir, what in
Speaker 2: the living hell are you talking about? I know why,
Speaker 2: I know. Why can there just be one person be like, hey,
Speaker 2: just one question? What the living fuck is going on? Why?
Speaker 2: What do you do? I want you to tell me
Speaker 2: what you did today, from the moment you woke up
Speaker 2: until when you got here. I want to hear what
Speaker 2: you did for the money. I and like, that's the thing.
Speaker 1: They will never answer that because a lot of it
Speaker 1: is just I read emails, I drank coffee, I went
Speaker 1: to lunch, I went to a meeting.
Speaker 2: I didn't really listen. Hey, CEO's shops extremely important. Okay,
Speaker 2: when I have my executive time, Rob knows my producer.
Speaker 2: He knows when I'm there, and I am in my
Speaker 2: blessed somnu lescens. If you think I'm sleeping, yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: thinking dreaming of the mind dojo. I'm in my mind dojo.
Speaker 2: That's where I do every day. I do my car
Speaker 2: and I think about different ways for me to spend
Speaker 2: our money.
Speaker 1: You know, it takes a lot of effort and works
Speaker 1: as a CEO to go, hey, do this.
Speaker 2: Hey, if you guys thought about not having buttons on this,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like that, I love those
Speaker 2: that stuff. It was like, Chief Jobs is a genius
Speaker 2: and it's just like making that at buttons.
Speaker 1: Well, Steve Jobs was a genius in the sense that
Speaker 1: he was No, no, I don't mean this in a
Speaker 1: defensive way. I mean a genius in quotation marks, because
Speaker 1: it was he was like, what if it was good?
Speaker 1: It's like, what if instead of it, instead of being
Speaker 1: clicking buttons, it was a touchscreen. But because touch screens
Speaker 1: are being shit, what if they were good and responsive
Speaker 1: and people use them? And when wow, this is fucking great.
Speaker 1: I should come up with that. It's like, that's like
Speaker 1: what I'm saying something worked.
Speaker 2: Why, Like that's all the other thing ed that I've
Speaker 2: never really understood, and I feel like there's like I'm
Speaker 2: just dumb in that way where it's like I feel
Speaker 2: like when it comes to the environment, that there is
Speaker 2: a lot of money in saving the environment. Yes, right,
Speaker 2: it feels like in my head there's somebody that's gonna
Speaker 2: maybe clean the ocean that will also then become a trillionaire,
Speaker 2: and I feel like that could be a really good
Speaker 2: focus on what we need to do in the future
Speaker 2: and you can make money. I just don't understand, and
Speaker 2: I just feel like I'm a silly dumb I'm a
Speaker 2: bad capitalist. I learned that I could give all my
Speaker 2: people raises and it really doesn't affect my fucking bottom line,
Speaker 2: because my bottom it's ridiculous. It's fucking the margins are
Speaker 2: fucking ridiculous.
Speaker 1: It's short terminism because if you think of it, you
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't make money immediately from saving the environment.
Speaker 2: You wouldn't make it. Yeah, so no, you sell some penguins. Honestly, dude,
Speaker 2: there's ways to hear talking to a capitalist. Just get
Speaker 2: some round up a bunch of good, healthy penguins, you
Speaker 2: selling them to an elementary school. Like it's like it's
Speaker 2: stuff like that. You see you do a certain thing
Speaker 2: were you you gig? There's ways to do it in
Speaker 2: fun ways. There's fun things.
Speaker 1: I also just think solar power is kind of magical
Speaker 1: and botes are kind of magical, like like bad stuff.
Speaker 1: But if you think of it in the short term way,
Speaker 1: it's weird because what I'm about to describe is buying
Speaker 1: batteries and solar panels before you make much money off
Speaker 1: of them, such as, just to be clear, a capital
Speaker 1: expenditure which will lead to an eventual payoff. Now that
Speaker 1: they hear and they go, fuck no, that sounds terrible. However,
Speaker 1: if they're like investing a bunch of GPUs for a
Speaker 1: possible return but probably not, they're like, fuck yeah, that
Speaker 1: makes perfect sense because they're all trapped in the past. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they keep it because these people are so discant. That
Speaker 1: thing I always say is like they don't have problems
Speaker 1: that they don't know how to fix them. So they
Speaker 1: look at the world and they go, what are my problems? Well,
Speaker 1: they don't have enough money what do poor people like? Uh?
Speaker 1: TikTok and Hamburger? I guess uh?
Speaker 2: I saw the did you read that Epstein file? The
Speaker 2: one email there was one that went back and forth
Speaker 2: about the idea of it was an extremely racist email
Speaker 2: from I forgot it was somebody within forget who it was.
Speaker 2: Explaining to Jeffrey Epstein, he's like, look, you see the
Speaker 2: same people. It was about jay Z buying into the NFL,
Speaker 2: and they were doing this this uh this commercial with
Speaker 2: jay Z and he's like, he's like, look you see,
Speaker 2: that's the same They're doing their advertising to the people
Speaker 2: who should be super angry. That's exactly what we're going
Speaker 2: to do. See, look, you just gave them exactly what
Speaker 2: they wanted. That's all they care about, which I think
Speaker 2: is minimizing of human beings obviously, because they think that
Speaker 2: there's more than this, because what they've just done is
Speaker 2: we have we do. Actually, our country is actually, which
Speaker 2: I'm certain you're well aware of, head is kind of
Speaker 2: in a deep turmoil right now, and there's protests in
Speaker 2: every single major city that exists almost twenty four to seven,
Speaker 2: and they're just not talking about it. And that's really
Speaker 2: the issue is that there's just they're just trying to
Speaker 2: delete that out of the narrative as if it's funny
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: Because if you want to make people happy, you make
Speaker 1: food cheaper and better, and you make empousing, and you
Speaker 1: make the general life better, it's.
Speaker 2: Easy to do. Try to fucking fat boy actually ran
Speaker 2: in a really good the idea of bringing manufacturing to people.
Speaker 2: Or if he had done one single maybe good thing,
Speaker 2: maybe anybody who could have a good, favorable opinion. What's
Speaker 2: going on? But we are nothing nothing could happen, right,
Speaker 2: nothing's good is happening, and we are we've just now
Speaker 2: started a new war and and we uh And I
Speaker 2: go to Florida. The groceryes are as expensive as they
Speaker 2: are in Los Angelesjesus Christ, you know what I mean. Like,
Speaker 2: and they don't see the difference in Florida. They they
Speaker 2: don't buy groceries. They don't buy like. These people don't
Speaker 2: buy groceries, they don't.
Speaker 1: I I genuinely wonder if they have someone who brings
Speaker 1: them like a soda, Like do they go to the fridge?
Speaker 1: Do you think these people like like? I like, that's
Speaker 1: the thing, because I think the they see the world
Speaker 1: as friction to be removed. They see every experience as friction,
Speaker 1: and they at the top of the pile have removed
Speaker 1: all frictions, such as they don't meet unexpected people, they
Speaker 1: don't get talked to by anyone they don't want to
Speaker 1: talk to, and indeed can reject anyone they want. They
Speaker 1: are any much anything they don't want to do. So
Speaker 1: things like oh, I gotta go to the bathroom, I've
Speaker 1: gotta go do my laundry. I gotta go unload the dishwasher.
Speaker 1: Maybe the dishwasher is like something we can automate fine
Speaker 1: washing dishes sucks, laundry sucks. They're not trying to fix
Speaker 1: those problems. Well, they're trying to fix is.
Speaker 2: What do you people do?
Speaker 1: Well, you do something, and I want to get rid
Speaker 1: of that. So I've created a large language model that
Speaker 1: will tell you what will do anything. I guess because
Speaker 1: that's all.
Speaker 2: And I think that that is also an important thing
Speaker 2: we have to constantly call it, which is they're not
Speaker 2: Ai their language models. There's no there is no intelligence inside.
Speaker 2: And I think that that has to keep being hit
Speaker 2: being like and I keep saying this place is and
Speaker 2: people are like, oh, well, you know, but they're British smart,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, I I don't think it is easy
Speaker 2: to mimic how we talk's we aren't because this is
Speaker 2: the thing. The human mind is unknowable. The human mind
Speaker 2: is endlessly complex. Our communication, however, is extremely patterned. We
Speaker 2: know exactly, we know how to we it is. We
Speaker 2: have so endless amounts of examples of human conversation, and
Speaker 2: it's easy to mimic.
Speaker 1: But here's the thing about or I don't know about you,
Speaker 1: but my thoughts are not linear.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: I've got like rockets going off in my head constantly,
Speaker 1: not like genius thoughts.
Speaker 2: It's like stupid thoughts. It's like what do I need
Speaker 2: to be?
Speaker 1: Probably not like things like that constantly. Like human thought
Speaker 1: is chaos. And if you're a listener, by all means,
Speaker 1: email me easy at better off Line dot com and
Speaker 1: tell me how you think. Because I think that a
Speaker 1: lot of these people want to believe that they sit
Speaker 1: there and they enter their mind dojo and they do
Speaker 1: their gun carter from equilibrium to think, and then the
Speaker 1: genius spits out.
Speaker 2: Because if you do that, you.
Speaker 1: Think large language models a genius. They also it goes
Speaker 1: back to my thing where it's they're all looking at
Speaker 1: the past. They believe that the only way to tell
Speaker 1: the future is by just looking at the past and going.
Speaker 2: A's kind of like that. Yeah, it's sort of fucking
Speaker 2: like as you know. I meanwhile, we are heading into
Speaker 2: I love you know, I'm a big I love Terrence
Speaker 2: McKenna and that kind of shit, and I love his
Speaker 2: concept of the idea of we're in this like novelty zone. Okay,
Speaker 2: go on, right, tell me more that the universe longs
Speaker 2: for novelty and builds novelty out and that life doesn't
Speaker 2: it doesn't get like but he was the way you're describing.
Speaker 2: And so it's like, instead of like imagining our technology
Speaker 2: in our society ever going upwards towards some form of utopia,
Speaker 2: we're actually endlessly folding in on top of ourself like
Speaker 2: a fractal Right, Like we're constantly folding. We're slowly breaking
Speaker 2: large groups into smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller,
Speaker 2: niche micro groups. There's more and more layers to a
Speaker 2: single subject, the more and more information that is readily
Speaker 2: available to the human consciousness. We just complicated again and
Speaker 2: again and again and again, and that what we are
Speaker 2: in and that's where we're going to be headed to
Speaker 2: is more unique situations as we have more information to
Speaker 2: deal with it. As each generation came up, before we
Speaker 2: operated largely each country, each area operated into sort of
Speaker 2: like a vacuum of information and kind of had to
Speaker 2: do its own thing and developed a stuff. This is
Speaker 2: the kind of like we're heading into an area where
Speaker 2: everybody knows what everybody's doing at all times, and it's
Speaker 2: going to change how we behave. Yeah, it is going
Speaker 2: to it's going it already is. It's going to change.
Speaker 2: And I think that that is kind of what we're
Speaker 2: seeing now, is that these things are nothing can play
Speaker 2: out like in another world, Like in another country, I
Speaker 2: could have seen a thing with January sixth, back in
Speaker 2: the day the insurrection in another country, Uh, the White
Speaker 2: House would have been burnt to the ground, people in
Speaker 2: mass executions that style. And I do believe that the
Speaker 2: Internet created another world where they observe themselves insurrecting. Yes
Speaker 2: they yes, they didn't understand they were They couldn't understand
Speaker 2: that they were being history. They were. They were walking
Speaker 2: through a thing as if they were on their own
Speaker 2: cell phones watching somebody else do it. That's like the
Speaker 2: way I describe it, which is a I think a
Speaker 2: new phenomena, like you were like watching a bunch of
Speaker 2: people doing a pro doing a what used to be
Speaker 2: like an inherent human way of changing our government. Right.
Speaker 2: That used to be a way.
Speaker 1: We used to like an attack on the very fabric
Speaker 1: of society.
Speaker 2: We used to get together or hang a bunch of guys,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. It was like a thing
Speaker 2: that we used to do. And now that it's not,
Speaker 2: I feel like that's what we're seeing here is is
Speaker 2: this effect is that we're all on camera and so
Speaker 2: it's gonna affect how we behave I.
Speaker 1: See, I have this theory that I liked, I love
Speaker 1: saying even though it doesn't mat to the thing called
Speaker 1: the beginning of history, which is just that it is
Speaker 1: no longer illustrative to use history to explain stuff.
Speaker 2: It is not.
Speaker 1: It can't like we are not like everyone's like, okay,
Speaker 1: we've worked everything out. It's just a question of going
Speaker 1: up from here.
Speaker 2: Great.
Speaker 1: No, I actually think what's happening is we have done
Speaker 1: stuff for decades based on looking backwards, the situations we've
Speaker 1: got ourselves in where look, everything's trump Trump's doing.
Speaker 2: It's horrifying.
Speaker 1: But what he is doing is instead of going, well,
Speaker 1: we didn't do this before, so we're going to keep
Speaker 1: being nice, it's just what if I didn't do that.
Speaker 1: A lot of the boundary pushing is just the result
Speaker 1: of ignoring what decorum was, and a lot of the
Speaker 1: rationalizations for a lot of tech stuff comes from looking
Speaker 1: at the past. It's the same bullshit. Uber lost amount
Speaker 1: of money, No, it didn't. Thirty two point nine billion
Speaker 1: is a lot of money, but open Ai raised forty
Speaker 1: two billion dollars in the last year. Amazon web services
Speaker 1: cost a lot of money. Actually, not normalized for inflation,
Speaker 1: Amazon web services cost about thirty eight point nine billion
Speaker 1: dollars in eleven years. Amazon is going to spend two
Speaker 1: hundred billion dollars in capex twenty twenty six. The actual
Speaker 1: historic comparisons are used as ways to plicate people. It's
Speaker 1: don't worry about it. This didn't happen before. And the
Speaker 1: reason I say the beginning of history is you need
Speaker 1: to start looking forward like that's what everyone needs to like,
Speaker 1: stop pretending the because things didn't happen before.
Speaker 2: Have none of you played craps one by anything? Can happen.
Speaker 2: Anything can happen, and if you see anything can happen. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just oh no, I believe it entirely. I think
Speaker 2: that we are we have been let loose from those examples.
Speaker 2: I think that once we understand. But you know, I
Speaker 2: think this goes all the way to a psychic thing though.
Speaker 2: I think this goes straight to this full to an
Speaker 2: idea of human beings not fully understanding what they're capable
Speaker 2: of and their potential at all times. Okay, And I
Speaker 2: think that we have accepted a very low position and
Speaker 2: in reality, as as as this amazing quantum computer walking
Speaker 2: around fired by like like literally like I do, it
Speaker 2: gets a little in the woo wee area, but it's
Speaker 2: the truth is that they we're capable of a lot.
Speaker 2: And I think that they make a lot of money
Speaker 2: on debasing the human spirit and saying like and that's
Speaker 2: the idea. The idea is that we are We need them.
Speaker 2: They're nothing, We're nothing without them. We have to be
Speaker 2: constantly entertained by them. We need to be Oh, we're
Speaker 2: just as hungry as like like all this kind of
Speaker 2: shit and we just have to do more of No,
Speaker 2: we're not gonna do that and said we're gonna do
Speaker 2: naked bike ride and said we're gonna do this thing
Speaker 2: like literally, like I know that it's like ridiculous, but
Speaker 2: there needs to be more of that sort of culture jamming,
Speaker 2: which we're already seeing. And I think the no.
Speaker 1: I fully agree because it's I said it, like I've
Speaker 1: told mysel a lot of economics and accountancy in the
Speaker 1: last year. Because a lot of people said, you couldn't
Speaker 1: possibly understand this, I was like, Okay, let me find out.
Speaker 1: I think that everyone underestimates human beings. I think that
Speaker 1: many of my listeners actually with the last podcast time
Speaker 1: actually get this as well, people like, oh, I couldn't
Speaker 1: possibly understand something so complex. I have listeners who email
Speaker 1: me complex economic theories, who are like builders and teachers
Speaker 1: and real shit. Yeah, yeah, the human being. They want
Speaker 1: you to believe that you are mediocre and that the
Speaker 1: summation of your life is a large language model, which
Speaker 1: is just everything on the internet crammed into something, and
Speaker 1: that you don't need to think this. You must think
Speaker 1: this is intelligent, because if you do that, you look
Speaker 1: down on yourself, and you'll be easier to sell to,
Speaker 1: easier to capture, and easier to use, because in the end,
Speaker 1: when you use a large language model, it is training you.
Speaker 2: I saw a really interesting statement that I forgot where
Speaker 2: it was, but it was like the idea that we're
Speaker 2: in this we're being governed by gigantic economic political forces
Speaker 2: that are all under the the guys of you don't
Speaker 2: really care, though, do you? Right? Like, it's this idea
Speaker 2: of we're now in this area where it's a bunch
Speaker 2: of guys we're like, well, you never cared about this stuff,
Speaker 2: so what do you care? What do you care about
Speaker 2: this thing? What do you care? What we do? You
Speaker 2: just like, just fucking eat your slop and go to
Speaker 2: work or I'll kill you, all right, why do you care?
Speaker 2: Act like you care? You know, I'm more fucking software. Yeah,
Speaker 2: shut the fuck up, right, just shut the fuck up whatever,
Speaker 2: Just chug like that's and it's going to take us
Speaker 2: to say I do care. I do actually care about
Speaker 2: human beings. I care that you've assigned massed shock troops
Speaker 2: to uh fucking arrest children.
Speaker 1: Building it's like fucking warehouses to prison people.
Speaker 2: I care. I care about the Epstein files. I care
Speaker 2: about them a great deal.
Speaker 1: Fun fact, Henry, did you know the the CEO of LinkedIn,
Speaker 1: per jmail Reatoff, he uh, he actually endorsed Jeffrey Epstein
Speaker 1: on LinkedIn, and I refuse to believe that. Well, it's
Speaker 1: sadly in the files. But what's so funny is like
Speaker 1: when that sea of disinformation, I he's the thing. When
Speaker 1: I read that, I was crying with laughter because it's
Speaker 1: just like, there are so many people in the Epstein
Speaker 1: files who are like guilty by association because they fucking
Speaker 1: went to the island. But like you were the CEO
Speaker 1: of LinkedIn and you endorsed Jeffrey Epstein, could not find
Speaker 1: out what.
Speaker 2: For god knows did you get into? Well, you see,
Speaker 2: my own my own pet obsession is Epstein's connections to
Speaker 2: the comedy world, which is just amazed. Yeah, it is
Speaker 2: just you know what I'll tell you, man, I'll say
Speaker 2: a year of so many years of being nervous around people,
Speaker 2: it is so nice to know that every single person
Speaker 2: I've ever liked is just not shit and they all
Speaker 2: absolutely suck my deck. Yeah, it's you know, he's there's
Speaker 2: a release. There's a release of like the guys that
Speaker 2: booked Ja just for laughs used to be connected to him.
Speaker 2: Jimmy Chamalay's pr person, his her pub his publicist Peggy
Speaker 2: Siegel is connected to him. The guys from the Interlock
Speaker 2: and that trained Chapel Roone and all those people that
Speaker 2: didn't make all these the superstars. He was like, he
Speaker 2: gave them four hundred and fifty thousand dollars. So it's
Speaker 2: like all of this stuff where you're like, I'm really
Speaker 2: ready to tell all of these guys to go fuck themselves.
Speaker 2: And Jmail was great as well.
Speaker 1: You could just go in there and type the name
Speaker 1: of anyone you meet and hopefully they're not in there.
Speaker 2: You just do that, man, I'd recommend you do that.
Speaker 2: That's all I do.
Speaker 1: That's all I like every time I meet and you
Speaker 1: persed them like yeah, but he just let me just
Speaker 1: to run that name through Jmail.
Speaker 2: Oh where were you? What do you do? Where were you?
Speaker 2: In twenty eighteen?
Speaker 1: By the way, it's so weird though, it's like so
Speaker 1: gay Brinn and Larry Patron there like Britain definitely seems
Speaker 1: to have at some point associated with Epstein. Nothing, nothing
Speaker 1: in the type madea really about it.
Speaker 2: It's well then you also look at his connections with
Speaker 2: Moot all of that kind of stuff. But I'll yeah,
Speaker 2: awesome to me. I always believe all that though. I
Speaker 2: actually got a great breakdown on the show about that
Speaker 2: from a listener again, how our listeners are some of
Speaker 2: the smartest, most educated. So fucking cool. Isn't that so
Speaker 2: fucking cool? It means the world of me.
Speaker 1: It's same like I love my listeners like I adore them.
Speaker 2: I love it. And this someone broke me down about
Speaker 2: like the secret history of four Chan, which is just
Speaker 2: the idea of that. Well, at the time, Christopher Poole
Speaker 2: was moving away from four Chan already, he already had
Speaker 2: other ideas. He was already on the way out. He
Speaker 2: had already kind of segued. He had been trying to
Speaker 2: create a sort of area for bad actors on four
Speaker 2: Chan for a while. It never took uh And when
Speaker 2: Epstein and Steve Bannon got involved with him, he was
Speaker 2: already kind of out the door. So Epstein probably had nothing.
Speaker 2: Epstein had nothing to do with four Chan. But then
Speaker 2: it was interesting how that took off because of the
Speaker 2: Steve Bannon Epstein connections to him. But it really was
Speaker 2: just to me what I thought was interesting is more
Speaker 2: so after the fact about how they were making fun
Speaker 2: of the QAnon, four chan pizza Gate stuff by using
Speaker 2: the Pizzagate stuff themselves. Yeah, so, I mean a game
Speaker 2: on a game on a game on a game, and
Speaker 2: it's all just it just makes people go crazy.
Speaker 1: You know What's really interesting though, none of this general
Speaker 1: if AI is Like Epstein was kind of into AI,
Speaker 1: it seems, but he was into it in the same.
Speaker 2: Way every business IDA is.
Speaker 1: So he's like, what if it could do all this
Speaker 1: stuff that I've imagined? But yeah, he had know this
Speaker 1: era is part of like he maybe he was like
Speaker 1: a load bearing pedophile, like because.
Speaker 2: I think they missed the ketamine. I think it was
Speaker 2: no ketamine, And I do think it was a different
Speaker 2: thing because at the time, what Epstein really was more
Speaker 2: focused on was his appearance on the Internet. He was
Speaker 2: focused on the information about him on the Internet, and
Speaker 2: that's why he got into all of the informational technology
Speaker 2: and all that shit, because he was trying to figure out,
Speaker 2: how can I control how people hear about me and
Speaker 2: talk about me? And that's really what that's what that
Speaker 2: was about. And then because you remember he was into
Speaker 2: fucking freezing is common, making a world of supermodel sex
Speaker 2: slaves that he would make endless children with. And that's
Speaker 2: his big idea, is ed. He was trying to fucking
Speaker 2: live forever, and so he had other ideas. So he
Speaker 2: wasn't here in this one. He was here. He's looking
Speaker 2: great now.
Speaker 1: Though, well, I mean, I don't know if I agree
Speaker 1: that Jeffrey Epstein looks great.
Speaker 2: I just saw him. Oh yeah, I always me and him.
Speaker 2: Whenever I go to Tel Aviv, I see him. Jesus,
Speaker 2: that's my whole thing. I go check in with jeff
Speaker 2: We go down there. I love him, five hang out
Speaker 2: with him. David Bowie, Michael Jackson, Oh good, well, hem
Speaker 2: Ray Ama Bin Laden fine here, They're all all right,
Speaker 2: all right, Henry.
Speaker 1: We're gonna wrap it there, Henry, where can people find you?
Speaker 2: Go and check it out? And the last podcast on
Speaker 2: the left and all of the warships. Our videos are
Speaker 2: on Netflix now and you can also see us on YouTube,
Speaker 2: and we've got a new if you want to check out.
Speaker 2: If you like live play role playing games, we have
Speaker 2: entered into the fray over here and we do Bloodbath
Speaker 2: Vampire of the mask Rid. It's LPN RPG. It's over
Speaker 2: on our YouTube channel LPN TV. And it is. Honestly,
Speaker 2: I think it's really good and it is. It is
Speaker 2: a dark and evil version of an LPN event RPG playthrough.
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, we'll get some links at that in the notes. Uh.
Speaker 1: You can also now buy We've just launched our Better
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Speaker 1: I love you all. Thank you for listening to Better Offline.
Speaker 3: The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song
Speaker 3: is Matasowski. You can check out more of his music
Speaker 3: and audio projects at Matasowski dot com, m A T
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