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Speaker 1: Also media. Hello, welcome to Better Offline. I'm, of course

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Speaker 1: your host ed Zetron. Apologies to everyone for missing the

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Speaker 1: monologue last week. I know many of you have threatened

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Speaker 1: my life. That's a joke. You're all very lovely about it.

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Speaker 1: But we are back this week. It's Hate to Season.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna be honest. Hate Season has been so much

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Speaker 1: fun that everyone is just I think we're just gonna

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Speaker 1: do this forever. And today I'm joined by an incredible guy.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna be one of two divas coming together to

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Speaker 1: maximize our joint sleigh. I'm joined by Henry Zebrowski of

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Speaker 1: last podcast on the Left. Henry, how are you?

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Speaker 2: I am good? I'm filled with rage, with rage about

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Speaker 2: one I'm ready. Honestly, I hate the goddamn metaverse. It's

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Speaker 2: I saw it pop up the other day. I saw

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Speaker 2: a person mention the metaverse. And there is one guy,

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Speaker 2: Jamie something guy on Twitter you can find him who.

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Speaker 2: I watched him go from Crypto from clubhouse to crypt

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Speaker 2: web three to NFTs to Metaverse to AI and now

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Speaker 2: he's back to Metaverse and I think that just people.

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Speaker 2: He's wrong.

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Speaker 1: He's wrong, but also he's professionally but that's crazy, Like

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Speaker 1: people are very unfair of me about my correct opinions.

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Speaker 1: But it's insane to me how many of these consultant

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Speaker 1: swindlers still exist and how there are still people being like, yeah, dude, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the metaverse is still here, man, I'll pay you.

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Speaker 2: I'll do this because they're desperate. They're desperate for some

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Speaker 2: other realm of productivity and work. There's something they really thought.

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Speaker 2: They had us pegged during COVID, Like at some point

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Speaker 2: they were like, they miss work, they miss work, they

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Speaker 2: miss they miss they miss people, they miss us, and

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Speaker 2: they have this idea of like, oh, the social network.

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Speaker 2: Like what we have to do is convince them they're

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Speaker 2: hanging out. We have to convince all of them that

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Speaker 2: they're all just gonna like, oh no, no, it's it's

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Speaker 2: it's work, sure, but it's like a lifestyle. Work is

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Speaker 2: like your lifestyle.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember that whole period as well, just before

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Speaker 1: the metaverse, where they were all of the remote work

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Speaker 1: articles that were like, we're missing the serendipity at the office.

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Speaker 1: We're missing it. You can't bump into a friend at

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Speaker 1: the office and have these thoughts. I love that because

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Speaker 1: it was always written by a boss, because you could

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Speaker 1: tell because everyone else at work is like, I just

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Speaker 1: want to put my fucking headphones and I just want

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Speaker 1: to get my job done.

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Speaker 2: Please leave me alone. We have crawled into the heads

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Speaker 2: of these giant corporate like that's kind of what we're

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Speaker 2: living in. I feel like we're living in a giant ketamine.

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Speaker 2: Like we're in a ketamine fueled dream right now, Like

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Speaker 2: we are.

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Speaker 1: In a live inside the ketamine dream. But what is

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Speaker 1: the who is the dreamer?

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Speaker 2: Dreamer is people like Zuckerberg and these guys that are

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Speaker 2: kind of forming how they think we view reality. They're

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Speaker 2: like trying to put that on us. They're trying to say,

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Speaker 2: we love work, we love productivity as a as a

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Speaker 2: as a as an animal, as a human animal. They

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Speaker 2: believe we crave crushing it, we crave dividends, we clave

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Speaker 2: we love hustling. And I've just we've never just been

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Speaker 2: in this place now where we're kind of being dragged

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Speaker 2: through their version of the future which is just not

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Speaker 2: panning out, you know, the metaverse. I get a show

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Speaker 2: in the metaverse once right in The Men of Us,

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Speaker 2: which one it was something Yes, I want It was

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Speaker 2: something like so everybody was a little weeble wobble person, right,

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Speaker 2: because they had to eliminate general Remember when they had

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Speaker 2: to go through the whole thing because they had to

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Speaker 2: eliminate lower half of people.

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Speaker 1: Oh, yes, because they said they were bringing in legs,

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Speaker 1: but then the legs didn't didn't pan out.

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Speaker 2: Legs, yes, because legs mean penis and balls or vagina, right,

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Speaker 2: And so what happened was is that as soon as

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Speaker 2: those were in play, as soon as legs were in play,

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Speaker 2: penis and balls and vaginas were in plays. And then

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Speaker 2: immediately the people started getting sexually harassed on the metapas.

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Speaker 1: But did they ever put the legs in? I thought

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Speaker 1: they weren't able to get them in at all.

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Speaker 2: No, because that was the let's just say, I believe

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Speaker 2: you saw several attempts at this, this idea of like,

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Speaker 2: we can't put in legs, You can't put in legs.

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Speaker 2: You mean to tell me you built an entire second

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Speaker 2: reality and you can't put in fucking legs, all right?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I mean practically speaking, putting in functional legs

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Speaker 1: that mapped to movement from the user would be difficult.

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Speaker 2: But it's just I never really understand That's now even

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Speaker 2: when there there's the aesthetics have like a flat like

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Speaker 2: a candle. Who cares. It's as soon as people saw legs,

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Speaker 2: they saw genitals, and they started saying horrific stuff to

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Speaker 2: each other on the metaverse, and so they got rid

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Speaker 2: of leggs.

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Speaker 1: Tell me about this metaverse experience you have this New

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Speaker 1: Year's Eve.

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Speaker 2: So I was asked to do It was during COVID.

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Speaker 2: I was asked to do the comedy for a New

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Speaker 2: Year's Eve party quote unquote in a build out. It

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Speaker 2: was like a metaverse build out. It was one of

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Speaker 2: those that they had done it for this specific event,

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Speaker 2: and the goal was that people were walking around this

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Speaker 2: virtual space and they would come upon you, and then

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Speaker 2: your camera would turn on and you'd see quote unquote

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Speaker 2: the real person there. I was in a character. He

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Speaker 2: was wildly invasive. Everybody was obviously had agreed to it.

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Speaker 2: But I was Cheddargoblin, which is a character from a

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Speaker 2: movie called Mandy Right. I was playing that, Yeah, this

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Speaker 2: is my life. This is called the Entertainer's life. Ed.

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Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, they gave me one thousand dollars. That's

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Speaker 2: worth it. It was it was for the tears because

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Speaker 2: then I put in I propped up, I have a

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Speaker 2: build out of the cheddar Gomblet and from Mandy right,

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Speaker 2: I have a poll from the original model. I put

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Speaker 2: it in a chair and I put it on, put

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Speaker 2: a camera on it. Yeah, and then I was talking

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Speaker 2: as him roasting people that would arrive to the little

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Speaker 2: comedy build out right that they had. And the thing

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Speaker 2: is is that it's what happened after every single COVID

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Speaker 2: stream show is that obviously it was janky. It was strange.

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Speaker 2: People were not even though they thought they were prepped

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Speaker 2: that their cameras would turn on, they were not prepped

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Speaker 2: that their cameras would turn on and they would get scared,

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Speaker 2: and it was bad. You know, It's like all that

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Speaker 2: type of stuff. But in the end it really is.

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Speaker 2: Which is what I discovered afterwards is the closing of

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Speaker 2: the laptop after this and the silence.

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Speaker 1: Oh was it just like constant noise in the well.

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Speaker 2: Just the idea of like, as a performer like this

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Speaker 2: was kind of one of the big issues I had

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Speaker 2: to just even just during COVID, which is the cavernous

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Speaker 2: silence after the show that you have now done on

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Speaker 2: Zoom in which you have been in a sort of

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Speaker 2: similacrum of real life for half a second, and then

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Speaker 2: as soon as the laptop closes, all that illusion is shattered,

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Speaker 2: and now you're just sitting in silence. And there's a

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Speaker 2: part of me that thinks that that is kind of

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Speaker 2: the issue with the phenomenon as a whole, which is

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Speaker 2: this fake, a fake version of society that they wanted

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Speaker 2: to recreate for us in order for us to obey

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Speaker 2: whatever rules they want to set up for us. And

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Speaker 2: so like, as I was in this, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I'm a part of the normalizing process of this, Like

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Speaker 2: this is a I am a person, and I am

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Speaker 2: here doing this as a way to show all of you. Look,

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Speaker 2: even if the world is uninhabitable, even if all the

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Speaker 2: corporations of the world make the surface a giant like

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Speaker 2: lava stream, the rest of us can still go underground.

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Speaker 2: And don't worry. There can still be the Friends reboot.

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Speaker 2: Don't worry. There can still be any type of Sharman

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Speaker 2: you like. It can be there, It can be underground.

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Speaker 2: We can live underground. We don't need all of this

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Speaker 2: real life, right.

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Speaker 1: I also think it's just to your point about living

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Speaker 1: inside the heads. It is really funny watching them try

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Speaker 1: and sell it, like make stuff to sell us when

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Speaker 1: they do not speak to real people, like yeah, what

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Speaker 1: what are you fucking pigs like sitting at desks?

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Speaker 2: Right? You want to walk around h world?

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Speaker 1: I guess Look it's the few pigs like this, right,

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Speaker 1: What do you think?

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Speaker 2: The thing about the human version of the right now,

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Speaker 2: what I see is the in the IRL version of

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Speaker 2: the metaverse are the corporate like it is not only

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Speaker 2: a it's an apartment complex, it's where you work. It's

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Speaker 2: also where the the you got your slop balls, and

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Speaker 2: then you can go over here and you can get

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Speaker 2: your face injections, and you can go over here and

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Speaker 2: you can do the thing that makes you look and sound,

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Speaker 2: and you can get the clothes and make look just

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Speaker 2: like everybody else.

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Speaker 1: The Google version of worry Free from Sorry to bother you.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes there is. That's that's like one soft rollout

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Speaker 2: right for I.

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Speaker 1: Do believe they'll back though they've started pulling back on

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Speaker 1: corporate benefits, So I think it is going to be

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Speaker 1: the moment a company offers housing within their campus. That's

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Speaker 1: how you know that they've just lost the plot and

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Speaker 1: they're like a how to fuck it? How do we

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Speaker 1: do this just give them housing?

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Speaker 2: I guess I genuinely believe all of this is the

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Speaker 2: dry run for some form of United States of Peter Teel.

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Speaker 3: See.

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Speaker 1: That's that's the thing though, because I see that argument.

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Speaker 1: But whenever I read them or hear them talk, or

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Speaker 1: actually look at the success of them trying to do

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Speaker 1: like the network state stuff, which always seems to go

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Speaker 1: poorly because running a city or a country is hard.

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Speaker 1: It's hard, they also see it fall apart, and I

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Speaker 1: see them put like, AI in general, is this thing

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Speaker 1: that's very much a cultureless person. I personally doesn't know

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Speaker 1: anything how they think.

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Speaker 2: Knowledge or culture works.

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Speaker 1: Culture is just when you go to the art spender

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Speaker 1: and you're like, what art, please, I've got one hundred dollars.

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Speaker 1: How much art can I get for this?

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Speaker 2: Oh? I'm just humans hanging out spending time and in

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Speaker 2: culture too. Yeah, it's like it's this culture is literally

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Speaker 2: just a it was a not to not to minimize it,

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Speaker 2: but it's almost a to me in my mind, it's

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Speaker 2: a it's a it's a product of our connectivity as

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Speaker 2: an animal, as a psychic animal. I see, that's the

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Speaker 2: point of it. And so they're just trying to. They

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Speaker 2: don't they think that day Okay, they hate though.

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Speaker 1: They really have like a deep homophobia towards anything emotional

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Speaker 1: or sensual, also feminine, is what they do.

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Speaker 2: I do believe that that that is the literal vibe

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Speaker 2: that I get, which is this idea of you look

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Speaker 2: at Peter Thiel talking, look at these people talking, and

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Speaker 2: I guess that's what it is.

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Speaker 1: Is that is still though, but you're saying this like

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Speaker 1: a self loathing to it.

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Speaker 2: I just mean in terms of his the way they

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Speaker 2: view it as frivolous and stupid, right, But our our

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Speaker 2: need for connection is something that is replaced. That is

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Speaker 2: very trindset. Yes, and that that is and it's extremely

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Speaker 2: easy to place. And so what they didn't do little things.

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Speaker 2: What you were saying too, is that the idea of

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Speaker 2: a corporate culture. It's like when I was working in

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Speaker 2: office jobs, the idea of a culture. I was like,

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Speaker 2: oh no, no, no, no, I'm here to get health insurance.

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Speaker 2: Like I'm not here to meet you, buddy, Like I'm

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Speaker 2: here for health insurance, you know, Like I'm here to work,

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Speaker 2: like to just get the fuck out of here and

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Speaker 2: go home. But they want they just want all of us.

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Speaker 2: They want every minute of our fucking breathing lives.

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Speaker 1: Well, that kind of reminds me again around just before

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Speaker 1: the metaverse, all of the anti remote work stuff that

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Speaker 1: talked about office culture is like, office culture is so important.

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Speaker 1: You need office culture. Office culture is what brings the

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Speaker 1: company together. Missing for most of these articles was a

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Speaker 1: definition of office culture because it was just kind of

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Speaker 1: work propaganda.

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Speaker 2: And doing what your boss wants you to do. Yes, oh,

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Speaker 2: that is what office culture means. Mm hmmm, because which

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Speaker 2: means you're living in a dictator. You're living in his

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Speaker 2: you're living in his reality.

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Speaker 1: And on top of that, it's like you, oh, so

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Speaker 1: you're saying we should have a culture that involves supporting

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Speaker 1: labor and respecting labor and valuing work and supporting us

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Speaker 1: Like oh god, no, no, no, no, sorry, sorry, don't

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Speaker 1: get us wrong. It's the culture of the office, not

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Speaker 1: the people in it.

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Speaker 2: It is the full tables. Yes, we have there's a

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Speaker 2: we got a never ending soup bowl.

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Speaker 1: M he loves I used I used to have a

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Speaker 1: wee work long ago, and I never tried the beer.

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Speaker 1: And when I finally tried it, I'm like, Wow, these

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Speaker 1: people fucking hate us because it was like the worst beer.

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Speaker 1: They could have put like a keg of bud Light and.

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Speaker 2: It would have been fine.

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Speaker 1: But they somehow found like a beer that tasted not

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Speaker 1: quite as bad as Natty Light.

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Speaker 2: But and they just and then but it's their where

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Speaker 2: it's the wee work of beer.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it really is. It's like the beer slop.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, these I find it we are not living up

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Speaker 2: to their expectations.

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Speaker 3: Ed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's what it is, is that we're

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Speaker 2: really not living up to their expectations. We're not dying

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Speaker 2: fast enough, we're not working hard enough. And that's the thing,

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Speaker 2: is that we really should be working and dying up

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Speaker 2: until the very minute, the very minute that we die.

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Speaker 2: Technically we should be productive in that it is. And

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Speaker 2: that's why, you know, when I hear the argument like

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Speaker 2: about how people like me should be having kids, and

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Speaker 2: then I hear where the argument's coming from, and I

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Speaker 2: hear it's about me keeping up the ever exponentially rising

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Speaker 2: capitalistic output. That's really all they're concerned about. It's other

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Speaker 2: enough workers. Yeah, it's really funny.

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Speaker 1: We're going to get the listener, the occasional listeners who

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Speaker 1: are like because occasionally with. I think we've got a

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Speaker 1: fairly left leaning audience, but occasionally, I'm sure you're listening now,

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Speaker 1: one of you guys who's like a straight up like

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Speaker 1: somehow a center left person who's very pro work would

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Speaker 1: be like, whoa, whoa whoa. Office culture's importance that everyone

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Speaker 1: knows what they're doing their job. I know why I'm

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Speaker 1: doing my job make money. Well, I'm an entertainer now,

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Speaker 1: I guess not guess it's a real job. But I

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Speaker 1: remember the officers I've worked in. The one that was

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Speaker 1: the worst was the one that I actually respected the

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Speaker 1: most for just not pretending there was a work culture.

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Speaker 1: They didn't have any of that shit. They were just like,

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Speaker 1: you need to do that, this enough, or we fucking

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Speaker 1: fire you. It's p off truly not marrish place.

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Speaker 2: But it didn't try.

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Speaker 1: No one tried to pretend like we're a family.

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Speaker 2: Hit no one. No, this is jail. Unless you're working

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Speaker 2: at a not for profit helping people directly, there is

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Speaker 2: absolutely no reason for you to have a fucking thesis

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Speaker 2: statement outside of we're company that makes goods for people,

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Speaker 2: or we provide X and we pay you to do X.

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Speaker 2: That is it. That's all we do like it's there,

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Speaker 2: doesn't even have to be special in that. And this

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Speaker 2: is the problem is that where I see it from

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Speaker 2: literally from reality television shows all the way up to

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Speaker 2: this top. Now this concept of everything has to have

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Speaker 2: like uh presented story. Everybody already has to be arriving

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Speaker 2: with a character arc ready to go locked in. And

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Speaker 2: now the bosses are doing that. The bosses have are

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Speaker 2: applying a character arc to us. They are saying they're

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Speaker 2: trying to tell us what we are gonna do for them.

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Speaker 2: And now I feel like we're in this process of

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Speaker 2: they are going to try over the next decade or so,

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Speaker 2: to kill as many of us as possible, to literally

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Speaker 2: weed out the people that are against it. They're gonna

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Speaker 2: make us sick. They're gonna put bad things in the food,

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Speaker 2: They're gonna pull out all of the things protecting the environment.

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Speaker 2: They're extremely sure they're gonna be able to beat all

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Speaker 2: of those for themselves, right, And then what they're gonna

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Speaker 2: do is create a breakoff civilization. All of this is

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Speaker 2: a dry run for them to leave us behind.

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Speaker 1: The funny thing is is, though I believe you that

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Speaker 1: that's what they may plan, I.

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Speaker 2: Just I mean the plan. It's the plan.

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Speaker 1: I don't think they're competent enough to prove it. Because

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Speaker 1: the metav Hus was the I think Clubhouse was the

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Speaker 1: beginning for me, but the Metavhus was the moment when

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Speaker 1: I was like, oh, you don't speak to any real

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Speaker 1: people like you.

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Speaker 2: Just the house was the single dumbest than giantest, thank god,

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Speaker 2: flaming pile of waste of money of anything I have

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Speaker 2: ever that was so stupid. I was gonna almost use

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Speaker 2: a presidential word ad it was so stupid that the

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Speaker 2: whole thing, I cannot believe the whole thing needs to

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Speaker 2: be deleted. That it was just repackaging intercoms. If it

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Speaker 2: was repackaging a zoom call, a conference call.

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Speaker 1: It's like, do you ever wanted really really really really

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Speaker 1: bad non produced radio.

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Speaker 2: With people that thought they were great? Welcome to clubhouse.

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Speaker 1: Do you want to hear vcs talk for hours and

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Speaker 1: say multiple slurs? Well, guess well, we have a place

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Speaker 1: for you.

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Speaker 2: We already have podcasts. Man. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But the thing is, though it was I remember getting

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Speaker 1: The reason that it got to me Clubhouse specifically was

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Speaker 1: because the amount of people I talked to was like,

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Speaker 1: this is the future, man, it's the future. This is

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Speaker 1: how everything's gonna get done. I voice, what's your clubhouse stretch?

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Speaker 2: What's your every But are you how many times I

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Speaker 2: heard that fucking sentence? And I was just like, this

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Speaker 2: super flu is gonna kill all of us? That was

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Speaker 2: like the only that was my name. I was like

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Speaker 2: terrified of dying. Yes, I was like, we're all gonna

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Speaker 2: fucking die. And you want me to repackage radio again,

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Speaker 2: I've already done it, dude, I did it fifteen years ago,

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Speaker 2: just like the Good Doctor.

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Speaker 4: I am a podcaster. Yeah, it's but.

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Speaker 1: It was also just a moment where I was like

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Speaker 1: looking at all of these supposedly smart people, all these

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Speaker 1: people who are meant to really know what they're fucking

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Speaker 1: talked about, and watching them as they just went yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is this is crazy, man. And then at the

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Speaker 1: same time, I've been reading all this anti remote stuff

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Speaker 1: and I was like, wait a minute, all of these

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Speaker 1: are written by managers or bosses who aren't in the office.

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Speaker 1: And then it was just kind of obvious, but none

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Speaker 1: of these people interact with their business. Is all regular people,

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Speaker 1: so they're just the things that they make do not

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Speaker 1: reflect solving human problems. And then the meta us comes

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Speaker 1: along and half most of the media was like, yep,

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Speaker 1: this makes perfect sense, and I as a gamer, was

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Speaker 1: like you were describing World of Warcraft or like an MMRPG,

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Speaker 1: you were just describing going online in a group I played.

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Speaker 1: EverQuest I have the skin already happened?

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Speaker 2: And also it looks like somebody read the book snow Crash,

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Speaker 2: like one of the one of their aides read the

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Speaker 2: book snow Crash at some point in college vaguely described

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Speaker 2: the concept of making real estate out of nothing, which

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Speaker 2: I think really was what the metaverse was about. Was

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Speaker 2: his idea of recreating a world in which they could

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Speaker 2: own everything, yet they wanted to own the next Internet.

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Speaker 2: That was very much what Zuckerberg wanted. That was the idea.

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Speaker 2: Is that they would have said and they would again

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Speaker 2: set all the rules. They'd set all the rules, they'd

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Speaker 2: already had set up, all the real estate parameters. They

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Speaker 2: you'd show up into this like brand new world of

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Speaker 2: a thing, and then you'd be described, oh my god,

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Speaker 2: there's a McDonald's. Oh my god, there's a fucking pizza hut.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, because they've already bought into this real

378
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Speaker 2: estate concept. Because they were just trying to figure out.

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Speaker 2: I also feel like that's a part of it. They

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Speaker 2: saw some of the writing on the wall of like

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Speaker 2: it's gonna be hard to get these fuckers back in

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Speaker 2: the office. These fuckers went home and they're fucking enjoying

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Speaker 2: their They just do it.

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Speaker 1: They're doing as much work, if not more, and they

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Speaker 1: seem happy.

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Speaker 2: That shit fucking hate Wait. Wait, wait, I did you

387
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Speaker 2: see I want to smell what he's eating. I want

388
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Speaker 2: to look I want to hear what he's listening to.

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Speaker 2: I want to ask him about his wife. I want

390
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Speaker 2: to lookt his wife, I want to think about his wife.

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Speaker 2: And so what I think that like, that's what I

392
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:47,040
Speaker 2: think turns into right, Yeah, So they just then realized, like, oh,

393
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Speaker 2: but what if we could do it so we can

394
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Speaker 2: bring them into this other world and then we own

395
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Speaker 2: it's like that, it's it's real. Then eventually we can

396
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Speaker 2: let go. Yeah, then we can let go of real

397
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Speaker 2: life real estate. Then maybe if we build it all

398
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Speaker 2: in the in the metaverse, just on that great books

399
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Speaker 2: no crash, anybody read, the end we could do is

400
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Speaker 2: we could build out this amazing new real estate system

401
00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:12,480
Speaker 2: while the earth eats itself alive on the surface. I

402
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,040
Speaker 2: do think that that's the other side. What we're also

403
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,720
Speaker 2: seeing is the other side of this too, which is

404
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Speaker 2: why they were all showed up at the inauguration, because

405
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Speaker 2: they were all so excited for the fact that they

406
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,280
Speaker 2: were going to just be like, let's boil the planet.

407
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 2: Let's boil the surface of the planet. And then they

408
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Speaker 2: have to come to the metaverse. They have to come

409
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Speaker 2: to us because we're the only ones that are going

410
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Speaker 2: to have the stuff to protect them.

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Speaker 1: It's really funny as well, because everything was saying is true,

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Speaker 1: but they left out because their lack of this, their

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Speaker 1: lack of connection to anything it working. They didn't check

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Speaker 1: if it worked. They also left us out. It also

415
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Speaker 1: didn't work.

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Speaker 2: That's the best part, and that's the best part is

417
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Speaker 2: that what I don't know us human beings are fast

418
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Speaker 2: and there's no They have tried to model us. They

419
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Speaker 2: have tried to model us again and again, and they've

420
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 2: looked at history and they've done all the number crunching,

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Speaker 2: and they can't figure it out. They can't they can't

422
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 2: figure it out. They all of these things fail because

423
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,639
Speaker 2: they legitimately are operating in a fantasy world. They're operating

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Speaker 2: outside of reality. They because they believe they can imprint there.

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Speaker 2: They can literally just put their reality on us. They

426
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Speaker 2: just think that they can do that. Well, look at

427
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,640
Speaker 2: Lemis and look at us, and then you see it's

428
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Speaker 2: actually super difficult. It's actually really weird. I actually think

429
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Speaker 2: part of what broke my brain was in the twenty

430
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Speaker 2: sixteen election when Trump won in the first place. That

431
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Speaker 2: was the first time I saw something and I was like, oh, wow,

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Speaker 2: elections might actually do something. Yeah. It was like the

433
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Speaker 2: first time I realized that the fix might not be

434
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 2: entirely in from people that actually are in control. Yeah.

435
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:59,280
Speaker 1: I I definitely like, I didn't get particularly political until

436
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,920
Speaker 1: after that. I will admit to being completely ignorant of stuff.

437
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 2: So why would I. I didn't feel these things. And

438
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 2: then everything changed.

439
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 1: Then everything happened, and then it was do you suddenly

440
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 1: look backwards You're like, oh, did I miss everything? And

441
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,800
Speaker 1: I'm still learning as well a lot of this stuff.

442
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 1: And I feel like when you saw all of them

443
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,560
Speaker 1: turn up at the White House, it was so fucking grim.

444
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,400
Speaker 1: But I saw people who were surprised and that really

445
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 1: made me laugh. The people were like, wait, what, huh,

446
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,200
Speaker 1: why are they kissing up. They said three years ago

447
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 1: that they liked me.

448
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 2: Huh, there's a part of me you see. This is

449
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 2: my problem is that I look at this and it

450
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 2: made me laugh. Oh. Yes, I finally felt like I'm correct.

451
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 2: I'm correct. They're all on, they all and they couldn't

452
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 2: give a fuck. No, they couldn't give a fucking shit

453
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:57,120
Speaker 2: about our lives. The only reason they want to replace

454
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 2: us so bad. And that's the thing when we're talking

455
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 2: about ED, I actually got turned on your work about

456
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 2: this idea that we're going to be hit in this

457
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 2: AI wall, and I could not be more in agreement.

458
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 2: There's a part of my brain that sayings like, where's

459
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 2: the guy that wants to make the trillion dollars that

460
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 2: finally makes the little robot that puts dirty dishes in

461
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 2: the dishwashing machine. That's what we want. What we want

462
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 2: is a little robot man that I can yell at,

463
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 2: that can do does laundry, does put the clothes away,

464
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,399
Speaker 2: and does the dishes that hit Henry.

465
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 1: The pro is that's really difficult.

466
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:35,920
Speaker 2: Like that's the thing.

467
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,920
Speaker 1: They're like, Okay, can we do stuff that would help people?

468
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know, wash that flaws we kind of

469
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 1: got vacuum robots.

470
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 2: But sucking. They scare my dogs. Yeah, I want a

471
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 2: thing that can pet the dog. But also when it

472
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 2: comes down to it, I don't need it to be

473
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 2: God in the machine because guess what, the real God

474
00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 2: doesn't exist, and the real God gives children aids. I

475
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 2: don't need another one. Yeah.

476
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 1: Also I don't know. None of this works, Like just

477
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 1: none of it work. None of it works.

478
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 2: It's not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen. But also,

479
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 2: within ed, why do we do about continuing to be

480
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 2: in their delusion? We break it?

481
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 1: Like that's what I'm doing, Like that's the thing right

482
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 1: now as as we talk, I've recently been working on

483
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 1: this piece about how like Anthropic admitted in Core they

484
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 1: made five billion dollars cumulatively like of all time, which

485
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 1: when you follow their previous revenue reports, does not make sense.

486
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:39,640
Speaker 1: And I'm arguing with people constantly all through today leading

487
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 1: up to this because what has actually what the real

488
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: power of these people is is that they've they control

489
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,880
Speaker 1: like we live in their world through narratives, the narratives

490
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,800
Speaker 1: that are created, and it is you it's true, Yep,

491
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 1: it's Elon Musk buying Twitter. Yes, it's Google Search, Yes

492
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: it's this, But a lot of it is just institutions

493
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,199
Speaker 1: like see in c NBC New York Times.

494
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 2: I'd like they are.

495
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: Captured, but not necessarily by the entities, but by the ideologies.

496
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: The ideology is the AI will be big. AI will

497
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 1: be big. It's not that it's oh, it may be,

498
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 1: it's it will be.

499
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 2: They can't say how you notice that too? Right? They

500
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 2: all are like all this stuff about AI and they

501
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:29,159
Speaker 2: project all of these but none of them actually says specifically,

502
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 2: what do you mean, like, what are the uses of AI?

503
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 2: Like what exactly? You say? Oh, it has all these uses.

504
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 2: It's inevitable, it's gonna replace all of these things. And

505
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 2: it's more like, but to what end? How al So, yeah,

506
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 2: it's like, what was it doing that? I don't think

507
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 2: it is, dude, because guess what, man, guess what? You've

508
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 2: this ship with the fucking WEIMO When they came out

509
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 2: and they said that they can't they have to kick

510
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 2: it to some guy in the Philippines to dry drive it.

511
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 2: If it gets specifically stuck with.

512
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 1: With way Mo, that's not even generative AI. Because they

513
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: love to say ais that you conflate them WAYM kind

514
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 1: of works way most interesting because it's interesting, it's interesting,

515
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: it's an actual thing that drives people around. I think

516
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,360
Speaker 1: that there are a ton of issues that I will

517
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: go into in a future episode. But with like large

518
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: language models, I have been and I'm gonna say this

519
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: in passing. I'm not going to go into depth because

520
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 1: I don't want them to people to get mad at me.

521
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 1: But I'm currently learning to code, and the more I

522
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: learn about the code, the more I get scared about

523
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 1: people using large language models to code because I don't know.

524
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: I'm getting worried that there are software engineers out there

525
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 1: that can't read code and just copypaste it from place,

526
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 1: or that they're willing to ship code that kind of

527
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: looks right but they don't really understand. I'm not saying

528
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 1: this is all software engineers, but I'm worried that the

529
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: software engineers they're building these lms for are the ones

530
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: that don't know what they're fucking talking about.

531
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 2: Buddy, I think that that is exactly what we're seeing here.

532
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 2: I think that we are in oh No. I literally

533
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 2: think that this is a it's all human lead. All

534
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:05,120
Speaker 2: of the issues are human lead it is still because

535
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 2: you would need a perfect AI to make a perfect AI, right,

536
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 2: you would need it's it's too human, it's too janky.

537
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 2: We are my whole view, one of my more I

538
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 2: guess you could guess to call it a mystical view.

539
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,199
Speaker 2: But I think one of the problems I have with

540
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 2: AI is I do believe that there is like a

541
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 2: one percent of the human brain that we just can't

542
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 2: we literally can't see if we wanted to see it,

543
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 2: because we're looking at ourselves. That there's like a like

544
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 2: in terms of just the observer gets in the way

545
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 2: of the thing that we need to be looking at

546
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 2: right Like we are, there's a part of our consciousness

547
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 2: that we will never duplicate ever. We just want don't

548
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 2: even just on thinking we don't. This is what I'm saying,

549
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 2: is that at the very bottom of it, we don't

550
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 2: really understand what the key is. So how is a

551
00:28:54,000 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 2: bunch of cargo short wearing, basement dwelling coders sitting in

552
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 2: a place that probably have never kissed a girl or

553
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 2: a man before, and then now they're gonna make the

554
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 2: new human thought machine, you know what I mean? Like

555
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 2: that's kind of like what we're seeing. So what we're

556
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 2: seeing here is it's all based. It's all it's turtles

557
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 2: all the way down, and it's just gonna keep going.

558
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: With the software engineers, I found that there's this real

559
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: we're seeing this schism between those types of basement dweller

560
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 1: in cell types. There are the coaders who know just

561
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: enough to get by and keep that job without being fired,

562
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: and then the people who actually do software engineering, who

563
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: are relatively normal folks who are just going about their

564
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 1: lives and now.

565
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 2: They are people like the truth. They view it as

566
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 2: like because I know that it can go as far

567
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:40,880
Speaker 2: as to being like an art form and like a

568
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 2: it's a whole thing. But again that points to not

569
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 2: to create an absolutely bedrock structure for a new conscious

570
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 2: entity on it doesn't sound like the way that works.

571
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: What's the summation of what code is is not nixaresh,

572
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 1: good mind, mate. The point where it's like coding is

573
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: not just writing code. There is an art form to

574
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 1: it cal Newport as well. It is as well where

575
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: it's like it's a there is a cultural awareness. There

576
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: is awareness of how one constructs stuff. If you I

577
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: don't know the way I put it is like, how

578
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: comfortable would you be feeling about a building where I

579
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: don't know the architect only kind of knew what.

580
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 2: Materials were in it.

581
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: It's most I think it's mostly bricks.

582
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 2: I legitimately think that that is Another big issue is

583
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 2: that it's they're they low they're low balling the creation

584
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 2: of the New God. You know, like they're literally like

585
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 2: nickel and diming it with guys, and they're creating these

586
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 2: dumb deadlines and they're creating all of these things where

587
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 2: it's like, you know, if Bitter Tiel really wanted to

588
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 2: take over the very globe, he has, to my mind,

589
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 2: he has to have more like of a thousand year

590
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 2: view like with the old like the the way that

591
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 2: they view the world more and like China and stuff

592
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 2: like that, where they he needs more of a longer Yeah,

593
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 2: but who's gonna take this bord Henry. That's not American capitalism.

594
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 2: Tell me about it, bro, I tell me about it.

595
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 2: I got fucking agents, fucking breathing out my neck every day,

596
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 2: all right, and I do podcasting. I can't imagine what

597
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 2: these idiots, all these people in the fake Money Realm

598
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 2: and then the fake Computer God Realm are what the

599
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 2: pressure is from the inside for them all to make

600
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 2: all this bullshit money.

601
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: I have to wonder if the people inside the labs though,

602
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: at this point, as they kind of it's become kind

603
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,400
Speaker 1: of obvious that like, this isn't really doing the thing.

604
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: They don't actually they haven't made any gods, and now

605
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: it's just kind of like, uh, what we're doing because

606
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,719
Speaker 1: I think they're all just fucking around, not in like

607
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: a completely labor free way. They're just like doing experiments

608
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: and spending like millions of dollars of computer at dates,

609
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: being like what if this works, what if this works?

610
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 2: What if this works? Ed does this? I'm a CEO?

611
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 2: That's what I've learned. When you know I've learned about

612
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 2: being a CEO? What is it? The only job replaceable

613
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 2: be a by aie here's a ceo? Oh what Literally,

614
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 2: it's the easiest, it's the dumbest. They have nothing but

615
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 2: like not to be like I work very hard blah

616
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 2: blah blah. But they have plenty of time. They can

617
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 2: just sit and think about these dumb things all day

618
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 2: and play around with it, and they're just waiting for enough.

619
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 2: Like I gus also think there's a massive obviously it's capitalism,

620
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 2: but the lateral moves, these guys just get to make

621
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,000
Speaker 2: like they get to just sort of like decimate a company,

622
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 2: decimate a bunch of stuff, lose everything, and then they

623
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 2: get to just kind of jump ship to another thing.

624
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 2: And I tell you my favorite one.

625
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: So there's a guy called Jay Perk who is the

626
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: co CEO of a company called lace Works. I believe

627
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna check that on air and yeah, see

628
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: lace Works. So this company, yeah, lace Work. So this

629
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: company was famous for doing an event where they handed

630
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: out thirty thousand dollars worth of Lululemon gift cards in

631
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,479
Speaker 1: a night to convince people to use their software. So

632
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: that guy and that company into the fucking ground, and

633
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: you know what happened. He got a job at Meta

634
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: and now he heads up one of the AI divisions

635
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 1: in Microsoft.

636
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 2: The meritocracy's real, what is it? Do they not? At

637
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 2: some point it has to almost be purposeful. It has

638
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 2: to be like, do you think that they do it

639
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 2: almost in a way. What if there is a game

640
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 2: being played to where they all know it's not gonna happen,

641
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 2: and we all know it's not gonna happen, but they are.

642
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 2: We're all like, all of these middle men have propped

643
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 2: up the economy with this shit. Yeah, so it almost

644
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 2: kind of feels like it's it's almost like they're making

645
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 2: money on the constant rug pull and the moving of

646
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 2: all of the stuff back and forth. It's almost like

647
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 2: maybe it's good to hire somebody that will purposely blow

648
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 2: it all up so then they never have to get

649
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 2: it done.

650
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 1: I just think I think it's more stupid than that.

651
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 1: I think it is they hire people who look and

652
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: sound like that, who they've worked with before, who have

653
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: the right things on LinkedIn, who then go who then

654
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: can say that I have this theory the era of

655
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: the business I I call it where it's like these

656
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: people are just morons, and if you look at they're morons,

657
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: If you look at them as dipshits without much strategy,

658
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 1: the world actually makes a way more sense than.

659
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 2: This is what we've been saying, you know, we've been

660
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 2: saying on the show, this idea of like trying to

661
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 2: come back from conspiracy theory and just understand that there's

662
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:28,320
Speaker 2: just way more human beings being extremely bad at really

663
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:29,240
Speaker 2: important jobs.

664
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and those are the humans that run these companies

665
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,919
Speaker 1: because like, if you've ever heard Sachin Adella talk CEO

666
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: of Microsoft, it is like sustaining one hundred concussions a second.

667
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 1: It's insane, he meanders. There was an interview I saw

668
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 1: him give in Davos, I think, where he spoke for

669
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 1: three straight minutes to a yes or no question, and

670
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: it's just like, and this is I think, as a journalist,

671
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 1: you should just be able to get out like a

672
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,879
Speaker 1: taser at that point. You don't have to use it,

673
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: but you can just like start crackling it a bit

674
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,399
Speaker 1: like yep, uh huh, yeah is there.

675
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 2: Why does no one ever just say just straight to

676
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 2: stand up and be like, excuse me, sir, what in

677
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 2: the living hell are you talking about? I know why,

678
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 2: I know. Why can there just be one person be like, hey,

679
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,720
Speaker 2: just one question? What the living fuck is going on? Why?

680
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 2: What do you do? I want you to tell me

681
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 2: what you did today, from the moment you woke up

682
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 2: until when you got here. I want to hear what

683
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,879
Speaker 2: you did for the money. I and like, that's the thing.

684
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 1: They will never answer that because a lot of it

685
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 1: is just I read emails, I drank coffee, I went

686
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: to lunch, I went to a meeting.

687
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:44,240
Speaker 2: I didn't really listen. Hey, CEO's shops extremely important. Okay,

688
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,240
Speaker 2: when I have my executive time, Rob knows my producer.

689
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 2: He knows when I'm there, and I am in my

690
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:55,399
Speaker 2: blessed somnu lescens. If you think I'm sleeping, yeah, I'm

691
00:35:55,480 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 2: thinking dreaming of the mind dojo. I'm in my mind dojo.

692
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 2: That's where I do every day. I do my car

693
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 2: and I think about different ways for me to spend

694
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 2: our money.

695
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,280
Speaker 1: You know, it takes a lot of effort and works

696
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,439
Speaker 1: as a CEO to go, hey, do this.

697
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 2: Hey, if you guys thought about not having buttons on this,

698
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:22,120
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like that, I love those

699
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,760
Speaker 2: that stuff. It was like, Chief Jobs is a genius

700
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:27,200
Speaker 2: and it's just like making that at buttons.

701
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: Well, Steve Jobs was a genius in the sense that

702
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: he was No, no, I don't mean this in a

703
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 1: defensive way. I mean a genius in quotation marks, because

704
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: it was he was like, what if it was good?

705
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 1: It's like, what if instead of it, instead of being

706
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 1: clicking buttons, it was a touchscreen. But because touch screens

707
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 1: are being shit, what if they were good and responsive

708
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 1: and people use them? And when wow, this is fucking great.

709
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 1: I should come up with that. It's like, that's like

710
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 1: what I'm saying something worked.

711
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 2: Why, Like that's all the other thing ed that I've

712
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 2: never really understood, and I feel like there's like I'm

713
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 2: just dumb in that way where it's like I feel

714
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 2: like when it comes to the environment, that there is

715
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,839
Speaker 2: a lot of money in saving the environment. Yes, right,

716
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 2: it feels like in my head there's somebody that's gonna

717
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 2: maybe clean the ocean that will also then become a trillionaire,

718
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 2: and I feel like that could be a really good

719
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 2: focus on what we need to do in the future

720
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 2: and you can make money. I just don't understand, and

721
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 2: I just feel like I'm a silly dumb I'm a

722
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 2: bad capitalist. I learned that I could give all my

723
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 2: people raises and it really doesn't affect my fucking bottom line,

724
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 2: because my bottom it's ridiculous. It's fucking the margins are

725
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 2: fucking ridiculous.

726
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 1: It's short terminism because if you think of it, you

727
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't make money immediately from saving the environment.

728
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 2: You wouldn't make it. Yeah, so no, you sell some penguins. Honestly, dude,

729
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 2: there's ways to hear talking to a capitalist. Just get

730
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 2: some round up a bunch of good, healthy penguins, you

731
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,879
Speaker 2: selling them to an elementary school. Like it's like it's

732
00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 2: stuff like that. You see you do a certain thing

733
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 2: were you you gig? There's ways to do it in

734
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 2: fun ways. There's fun things.

735
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: I also just think solar power is kind of magical

736
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 1: and botes are kind of magical, like like bad stuff.

737
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,720
Speaker 1: But if you think of it in the short term way,

738
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: it's weird because what I'm about to describe is buying

739
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: batteries and solar panels before you make much money off

740
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: of them, such as, just to be clear, a capital

741
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 1: expenditure which will lead to an eventual payoff. Now that

742
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,320
Speaker 1: they hear and they go, fuck no, that sounds terrible. However,

743
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,800
Speaker 1: if they're like investing a bunch of GPUs for a

744
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: possible return but probably not, they're like, fuck yeah, that

745
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 1: makes perfect sense because they're all trapped in the past. Yeah,

746
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 1: they keep it because these people are so discant. That

747
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: thing I always say is like they don't have problems

748
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,399
Speaker 1: that they don't know how to fix them. So they

749
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,960
Speaker 1: look at the world and they go, what are my problems? Well,

750
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: they don't have enough money what do poor people like? Uh?

751
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: TikTok and Hamburger? I guess uh?

752
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 2: I saw the did you read that Epstein file? The

753
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,399
Speaker 2: one email there was one that went back and forth

754
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 2: about the idea of it was an extremely racist email

755
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 2: from I forgot it was somebody within forget who it was.

756
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 2: Explaining to Jeffrey Epstein, he's like, look, you see the

757
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,640
Speaker 2: same people. It was about jay Z buying into the NFL,

758
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 2: and they were doing this this uh this commercial with

759
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:44,280
Speaker 2: jay Z and he's like, he's like, look you see,

760
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 2: that's the same They're doing their advertising to the people

761
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 2: who should be super angry. That's exactly what we're going

762
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 2: to do. See, look, you just gave them exactly what

763
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 2: they wanted. That's all they care about, which I think

764
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 2: is minimizing of human beings obviously, because they think that

765
00:39:57,640 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 2: there's more than this, because what they've just done is

766
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 2: we have we do. Actually, our country is actually, which

767
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 2: I'm certain you're well aware of, head is kind of

768
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 2: in a deep turmoil right now, and there's protests in

769
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 2: every single major city that exists almost twenty four to seven,

770
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 2: and they're just not talking about it. And that's really

771
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 2: the issue is that there's just they're just trying to

772
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 2: delete that out of the narrative as if it's funny

773
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 2: as well.

774
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 1: Because if you want to make people happy, you make

775
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: food cheaper and better, and you make empousing, and you

776
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: make the general life better, it's.

777
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 2: Easy to do. Try to fucking fat boy actually ran

778
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 2: in a really good the idea of bringing manufacturing to people.

779
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,479
Speaker 2: Or if he had done one single maybe good thing,

780
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 2: maybe anybody who could have a good, favorable opinion. What's

781
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 2: going on? But we are nothing nothing could happen, right,

782
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,919
Speaker 2: nothing's good is happening, and we are we've just now

783
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 2: started a new war and and we uh And I

784
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 2: go to Florida. The groceryes are as expensive as they

785
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 2: are in Los Angelesjesus Christ, you know what I mean. Like,

786
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 2: and they don't see the difference in Florida. They they

787
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,919
Speaker 2: don't buy groceries. They don't buy like. These people don't

788
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 2: buy groceries, they don't.

789
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,720
Speaker 1: I I genuinely wonder if they have someone who brings

790
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 1: them like a soda, Like do they go to the fridge?

791
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: Do you think these people like like? I like, that's

792
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 1: the thing, because I think the they see the world

793
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,240
Speaker 1: as friction to be removed. They see every experience as friction,

794
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 1: and they at the top of the pile have removed

795
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 1: all frictions, such as they don't meet unexpected people, they

796
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 1: don't get talked to by anyone they don't want to

797
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: talk to, and indeed can reject anyone they want. They

798
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 1: are any much anything they don't want to do. So

799
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 1: things like oh, I gotta go to the bathroom, I've

800
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 1: gotta go do my laundry. I gotta go unload the dishwasher.

801
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 1: Maybe the dishwasher is like something we can automate fine

802
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 1: washing dishes sucks, laundry sucks. They're not trying to fix

803
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,839
Speaker 1: those problems. Well, they're trying to fix is.

804
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 2: What do you people do?

805
00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: Well, you do something, and I want to get rid

806
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 1: of that. So I've created a large language model that

807
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 1: will tell you what will do anything. I guess because

808
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:05,920
Speaker 1: that's all.

809
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 2: And I think that that is also an important thing

810
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:12,759
Speaker 2: we have to constantly call it, which is they're not

811
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:17,080
Speaker 2: Ai their language models. There's no there is no intelligence inside.

812
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 2: And I think that that has to keep being hit

813
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 2: being like and I keep saying this place is and

814
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,320
Speaker 2: people are like, oh, well, you know, but they're British smart,

815
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 2: and I'm like, I I don't think it is easy

816
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 2: to mimic how we talk's we aren't because this is

817
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:39,280
Speaker 2: the thing. The human mind is unknowable. The human mind

818
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 2: is endlessly complex. Our communication, however, is extremely patterned. We

819
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 2: know exactly, we know how to we it is. We

820
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 2: have so endless amounts of examples of human conversation, and

821
00:42:56,920 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 2: it's easy to mimic.

822
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 1: But here's the thing about or I don't know about you,

823
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 1: but my thoughts are not linear.

824
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 3: Now.

825
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 1: I've got like rockets going off in my head constantly,

826
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: not like genius thoughts.

827
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 2: It's like stupid thoughts. It's like what do I need

828
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 2: to be?

829
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: Probably not like things like that constantly. Like human thought

830
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 1: is chaos. And if you're a listener, by all means,

831
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 1: email me easy at better off Line dot com and

832
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 1: tell me how you think. Because I think that a

833
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: lot of these people want to believe that they sit

834
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 1: there and they enter their mind dojo and they do

835
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 1: their gun carter from equilibrium to think, and then the

836
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: genius spits out.

837
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:39,359
Speaker 2: Because if you do that, you.

838
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 1: Think large language models a genius. They also it goes

839
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:44,839
Speaker 1: back to my thing where it's they're all looking at

840
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: the past. They believe that the only way to tell

841
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 1: the future is by just looking at the past and going.

842
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,800
Speaker 2: A's kind of like that. Yeah, it's sort of fucking

843
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,120
Speaker 2: like as you know. I meanwhile, we are heading into

844
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 2: I love you know, I'm a big I love Terrence

845
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 2: McKenna and that kind of shit, and I love his

846
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 2: concept of the idea of we're in this like novelty zone. Okay,

847
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:08,760
Speaker 2: go on, right, tell me more that the universe longs

848
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 2: for novelty and builds novelty out and that life doesn't

849
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 2: it doesn't get like but he was the way you're describing.

850
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 2: And so it's like, instead of like imagining our technology

851
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 2: in our society ever going upwards towards some form of utopia,

852
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 2: we're actually endlessly folding in on top of ourself like

853
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 2: a fractal Right, Like we're constantly folding. We're slowly breaking

854
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 2: large groups into smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller,

855
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 2: niche micro groups. There's more and more layers to a

856
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 2: single subject, the more and more information that is readily

857
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 2: available to the human consciousness. We just complicated again and

858
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 2: again and again and again, and that what we are

859
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 2: in and that's where we're going to be headed to

860
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 2: is more unique situations as we have more information to

861
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 2: deal with it. As each generation came up, before we

862
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 2: operated largely each country, each area operated into sort of

863
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 2: like a vacuum of information and kind of had to

864
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 2: do its own thing and developed a stuff. This is

865
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:13,840
Speaker 2: the kind of like we're heading into an area where

866
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 2: everybody knows what everybody's doing at all times, and it's

867
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 2: going to change how we behave. Yeah, it is going

868
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,280
Speaker 2: to it's going it already is. It's going to change.

869
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 2: And I think that that is kind of what we're

870
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 2: seeing now, is that these things are nothing can play

871
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,719
Speaker 2: out like in another world, Like in another country, I

872
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 2: could have seen a thing with January sixth, back in

873
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 2: the day the insurrection in another country, Uh, the White

874
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 2: House would have been burnt to the ground, people in

875
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 2: mass executions that style. And I do believe that the

876
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 2: Internet created another world where they observe themselves insurrecting. Yes

877
00:45:55,120 --> 00:46:01,320
Speaker 2: they yes, they didn't understand they were They couldn't understand

878
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:05,760
Speaker 2: that they were being history. They were. They were walking

879
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 2: through a thing as if they were on their own

880
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 2: cell phones watching somebody else do it. That's like the

881
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 2: way I describe it, which is a I think a

882
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 2: new phenomena, like you were like watching a bunch of

883
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 2: people doing a pro doing a what used to be

884
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 2: like an inherent human way of changing our government. Right.

885
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 2: That used to be a way.

886
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: We used to like an attack on the very fabric

887
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:32,360
Speaker 1: of society.

888
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 2: We used to get together or hang a bunch of guys,

889
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. It was like a thing

890
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 2: that we used to do. And now that it's not,

891
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 2: I feel like that's what we're seeing here is is

892
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 2: this effect is that we're all on camera and so

893
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 2: it's gonna affect how we behave I.

894
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 1: See, I have this theory that I liked, I love

895
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 1: saying even though it doesn't mat to the thing called

896
00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 1: the beginning of history, which is just that it is

897
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:57,880
Speaker 1: no longer illustrative to use history to explain stuff.

898
00:46:58,280 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 2: It is not.

899
00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:03,720
Speaker 1: It can't like we are not like everyone's like, okay,

900
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 1: we've worked everything out. It's just a question of going

901
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:06,319
Speaker 1: up from here.

902
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:08,879
Speaker 2: Great.

903
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: No, I actually think what's happening is we have done

904
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 1: stuff for decades based on looking backwards, the situations we've

905
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 1: got ourselves in where look, everything's trump Trump's doing.

906
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 2: It's horrifying.

907
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 1: But what he is doing is instead of going, well,

908
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 1: we didn't do this before, so we're going to keep

909
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 1: being nice, it's just what if I didn't do that.

910
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 1: A lot of the boundary pushing is just the result

911
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 1: of ignoring what decorum was, and a lot of the

912
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,839
Speaker 1: rationalizations for a lot of tech stuff comes from looking

913
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 1: at the past. It's the same bullshit. Uber lost amount

914
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:44,719
Speaker 1: of money, No, it didn't. Thirty two point nine billion

915
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:46,839
Speaker 1: is a lot of money, but open Ai raised forty

916
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 1: two billion dollars in the last year. Amazon web services

917
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 1: cost a lot of money. Actually, not normalized for inflation,

918
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 1: Amazon web services cost about thirty eight point nine billion

919
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: dollars in eleven years. Amazon is going to spend two

920
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 1: hundred billion dollars in capex twenty twenty six. The actual

921
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 1: historic comparisons are used as ways to plicate people. It's

922
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 1: don't worry about it. This didn't happen before. And the

923
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 1: reason I say the beginning of history is you need

924
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 1: to start looking forward like that's what everyone needs to like,

925
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 1: stop pretending the because things didn't happen before.

926
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:25,440
Speaker 2: Have none of you played craps one by anything? Can happen.

927
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 2: Anything can happen, and if you see anything can happen. Yeah,

928
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 2: it's just oh no, I believe it entirely. I think

929
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 2: that we are we have been let loose from those examples.

930
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 2: I think that once we understand. But you know, I

931
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:43,479
Speaker 2: think this goes all the way to a psychic thing though.

932
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:46,120
Speaker 2: I think this goes straight to this full to an

933
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:53,280
Speaker 2: idea of human beings not fully understanding what they're capable

934
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:55,960
Speaker 2: of and their potential at all times. Okay, And I

935
00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:00,080
Speaker 2: think that we have accepted a very low position and

936
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 2: in reality, as as as this amazing quantum computer walking

937
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 2: around fired by like like literally like I do, it

938
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:14,399
Speaker 2: gets a little in the woo wee area, but it's

939
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 2: the truth is that they we're capable of a lot.

940
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:22,240
Speaker 2: And I think that they make a lot of money

941
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:27,439
Speaker 2: on debasing the human spirit and saying like and that's

942
00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 2: the idea. The idea is that we are We need them.

943
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,520
Speaker 2: They're nothing, We're nothing without them. We have to be

944
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 2: constantly entertained by them. We need to be Oh, we're

945
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 2: just as hungry as like like all this kind of

946
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,239
Speaker 2: shit and we just have to do more of No,

947
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 2: we're not gonna do that and said we're gonna do

948
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 2: naked bike ride and said we're gonna do this thing

949
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 2: like literally, like I know that it's like ridiculous, but

950
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 2: there needs to be more of that sort of culture jamming,

951
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,920
Speaker 2: which we're already seeing. And I think the no.

952
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: I fully agree because it's I said it, like I've

953
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:02,320
Speaker 1: told mysel a lot of economics and accountancy in the

954
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 1: last year. Because a lot of people said, you couldn't

955
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 1: possibly understand this, I was like, Okay, let me find out.

956
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 1: I think that everyone underestimates human beings. I think that

957
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: many of my listeners actually with the last podcast time

958
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:16,960
Speaker 1: actually get this as well, people like, oh, I couldn't

959
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 1: possibly understand something so complex. I have listeners who email

960
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 1: me complex economic theories, who are like builders and teachers

961
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 1: and real shit. Yeah, yeah, the human being. They want

962
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:30,880
Speaker 1: you to believe that you are mediocre and that the

963
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,439
Speaker 1: summation of your life is a large language model, which

964
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: is just everything on the internet crammed into something, and

965
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 1: that you don't need to think this. You must think

966
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,399
Speaker 1: this is intelligent, because if you do that, you look

967
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 1: down on yourself, and you'll be easier to sell to,

968
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 1: easier to capture, and easier to use, because in the end,

969
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 1: when you use a large language model, it is training you.

970
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 2: I saw a really interesting statement that I forgot where

971
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:56,399
Speaker 2: it was, but it was like the idea that we're

972
00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 2: in this we're being governed by gigantic economic political forces

973
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,879
Speaker 2: that are all under the the guys of you don't

974
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:07,280
Speaker 2: really care, though, do you? Right? Like, it's this idea

975
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 2: of we're now in this area where it's a bunch

976
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:12,720
Speaker 2: of guys we're like, well, you never cared about this stuff,

977
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:15,080
Speaker 2: so what do you care? What do you care about

978
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:16,319
Speaker 2: this thing? What do you care? What we do? You

979
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 2: just like, just fucking eat your slop and go to

980
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:20,960
Speaker 2: work or I'll kill you, all right, why do you care?

981
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 2: Act like you care? You know, I'm more fucking software. Yeah,

982
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 2: shut the fuck up, right, just shut the fuck up whatever,

983
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:31,840
Speaker 2: Just chug like that's and it's going to take us

984
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:36,879
Speaker 2: to say I do care. I do actually care about

985
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 2: human beings. I care that you've assigned massed shock troops

986
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 2: to uh fucking arrest children.

987
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 1: Building it's like fucking warehouses to prison people.

988
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 2: I care. I care about the Epstein files. I care

989
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:53,759
Speaker 2: about them a great deal.

990
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 1: Fun fact, Henry, did you know the the CEO of LinkedIn,

991
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:04,760
Speaker 1: per jmail Reatoff, he uh, he actually endorsed Jeffrey Epstein

992
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: on LinkedIn, and I refuse to believe that. Well, it's

993
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:11,960
Speaker 1: sadly in the files. But what's so funny is like

994
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 1: when that sea of disinformation, I he's the thing. When

995
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 1: I read that, I was crying with laughter because it's

996
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:22,800
Speaker 1: just like, there are so many people in the Epstein

997
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:25,399
Speaker 1: files who are like guilty by association because they fucking

998
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 1: went to the island. But like you were the CEO

999
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 1: of LinkedIn and you endorsed Jeffrey Epstein, could not find

1000
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 1: out what.

1001
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 2: For god knows did you get into? Well, you see,

1002
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:39,840
Speaker 2: my own my own pet obsession is Epstein's connections to

1003
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 2: the comedy world, which is just amazed. Yeah, it is

1004
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 2: just you know what I'll tell you, man, I'll say

1005
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:51,720
Speaker 2: a year of so many years of being nervous around people,

1006
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:55,280
Speaker 2: it is so nice to know that every single person

1007
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 2: I've ever liked is just not shit and they all

1008
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 2: absolutely suck my deck. Yeah, it's you know, he's there's

1009
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:06,279
Speaker 2: a release. There's a release of like the guys that

1010
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 2: booked Ja just for laughs used to be connected to him.

1011
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 2: Jimmy Chamalay's pr person, his her pub his publicist Peggy

1012
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,280
Speaker 2: Siegel is connected to him. The guys from the Interlock

1013
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:21,319
Speaker 2: and that trained Chapel Roone and all those people that

1014
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 2: didn't make all these the superstars. He was like, he

1015
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:26,399
Speaker 2: gave them four hundred and fifty thousand dollars. So it's

1016
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 2: like all of this stuff where you're like, I'm really

1017
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:34,319
Speaker 2: ready to tell all of these guys to go fuck themselves.

1018
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 2: And Jmail was great as well.

1019
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:37,640
Speaker 1: You could just go in there and type the name

1020
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:40,080
Speaker 1: of anyone you meet and hopefully they're not in there.

1021
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 2: You just do that, man, I'd recommend you do that.

1022
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:43,879
Speaker 2: That's all I do.

1023
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 1: That's all I like every time I meet and you

1024
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 1: persed them like yeah, but he just let me just

1025
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 1: to run that name through Jmail.

1026
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 2: Oh where were you? What do you do? Where were you?

1027
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:54,840
Speaker 2: In twenty eighteen?

1028
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:59,279
Speaker 1: By the way, it's so weird though, it's like so

1029
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 1: gay Brinn and Larry Patron there like Britain definitely seems

1030
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 1: to have at some point associated with Epstein. Nothing, nothing

1031
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 1: in the type madea really about it.

1032
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 2: It's well then you also look at his connections with

1033
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 2: Moot all of that kind of stuff. But I'll yeah,

1034
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:18,360
Speaker 2: awesome to me. I always believe all that though. I

1035
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 2: actually got a great breakdown on the show about that

1036
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:23,319
Speaker 2: from a listener again, how our listeners are some of

1037
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 2: the smartest, most educated. So fucking cool. Isn't that so

1038
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:28,960
Speaker 2: fucking cool? It means the world of me.

1039
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 1: It's same like I love my listeners like I adore them.

1040
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 2: I love it. And this someone broke me down about

1041
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:36,840
Speaker 2: like the secret history of four Chan, which is just

1042
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 2: the idea of that. Well, at the time, Christopher Poole

1043
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:41,359
Speaker 2: was moving away from four Chan already, he already had

1044
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:43,600
Speaker 2: other ideas. He was already on the way out. He

1045
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 2: had already kind of segued. He had been trying to

1046
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 2: create a sort of area for bad actors on four

1047
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:54,839
Speaker 2: Chan for a while. It never took uh And when

1048
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:58,279
Speaker 2: Epstein and Steve Bannon got involved with him, he was

1049
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 2: already kind of out the door. So Epstein probably had nothing.

1050
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 2: Epstein had nothing to do with four Chan. But then

1051
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:06,440
Speaker 2: it was interesting how that took off because of the

1052
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:09,799
Speaker 2: Steve Bannon Epstein connections to him. But it really was

1053
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 2: just to me what I thought was interesting is more

1054
00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 2: so after the fact about how they were making fun

1055
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 2: of the QAnon, four chan pizza Gate stuff by using

1056
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 2: the Pizzagate stuff themselves. Yeah, so, I mean a game

1057
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:24,840
Speaker 2: on a game on a game on a game, and

1058
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 2: it's all just it just makes people go crazy.

1059
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:29,959
Speaker 1: You know What's really interesting though, none of this general

1060
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,239
Speaker 1: if AI is Like Epstein was kind of into AI,

1061
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:34,400
Speaker 1: it seems, but he was into it in the same.

1062
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 2: Way every business IDA is.

1063
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 1: So he's like, what if it could do all this

1064
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 1: stuff that I've imagined? But yeah, he had know this

1065
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 1: era is part of like he maybe he was like

1066
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 1: a load bearing pedophile, like because.

1067
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 2: I think they missed the ketamine. I think it was

1068
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:50,840
Speaker 2: no ketamine, And I do think it was a different

1069
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 2: thing because at the time, what Epstein really was more

1070
00:55:53,719 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 2: focused on was his appearance on the Internet. He was

1071
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:04,920
Speaker 2: focused on the information about him on the Internet, and

1072
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:08,879
Speaker 2: that's why he got into all of the informational technology

1073
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:11,919
Speaker 2: and all that shit, because he was trying to figure out,

1074
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:16,400
Speaker 2: how can I control how people hear about me and

1075
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:19,200
Speaker 2: talk about me? And that's really what that's what that

1076
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:22,719
Speaker 2: was about. And then because you remember he was into

1077
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:26,919
Speaker 2: fucking freezing is common, making a world of supermodel sex

1078
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:29,520
Speaker 2: slaves that he would make endless children with. And that's

1079
00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 2: his big idea, is ed. He was trying to fucking

1080
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 2: live forever, and so he had other ideas. So he

1081
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:39,360
Speaker 2: wasn't here in this one. He was here. He's looking

1082
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:40,120
Speaker 2: great now.

1083
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:43,160
Speaker 1: Though, well, I mean, I don't know if I agree

1084
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 1: that Jeffrey Epstein looks great.

1085
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 2: I just saw him. Oh yeah, I always me and him.

1086
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:54,200
Speaker 2: Whenever I go to Tel Aviv, I see him. Jesus,

1087
00:56:54,640 --> 00:56:56,720
Speaker 2: that's my whole thing. I go check in with jeff

1088
00:56:56,760 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 2: We go down there. I love him, five hang out

1089
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 2: with him. David Bowie, Michael Jackson, Oh good, well, hem

1090
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 2: Ray Ama Bin Laden fine here, They're all all right,

1091
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 2: all right, Henry.

1092
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 1: We're gonna wrap it there, Henry, where can people find you?

1093
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 2: Go and check it out? And the last podcast on

1094
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 2: the left and all of the warships. Our videos are

1095
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 2: on Netflix now and you can also see us on YouTube,

1096
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:24,960
Speaker 2: and we've got a new if you want to check out.

1097
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:27,480
Speaker 2: If you like live play role playing games, we have

1098
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:30,920
Speaker 2: entered into the fray over here and we do Bloodbath

1099
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 2: Vampire of the mask Rid. It's LPN RPG. It's over

1100
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 2: on our YouTube channel LPN TV. And it is. Honestly,

1101
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 2: I think it's really good and it is. It is

1102
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:45,000
Speaker 2: a dark and evil version of an LPN event RPG playthrough.

1103
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, we'll get some links at that in the notes. Uh.

1104
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 1: You can also now buy We've just launched our Better

1105
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 1: Offline fuck data centers, merch graivel T shirt, beanie stickers,

1106
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Speaker 1: tank tops, baby onesies. Put them everywhere you're gonna. I'm

1107
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 1: at ze tron. Subscribe to the newsletter. You'll have them

1108
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:06,320
Speaker 1: unlogue this week. Sorry for biscuit last week. Cheers everyone,

1109
00:58:06,360 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 1: I love you all. Thank you for listening to Better Offline.

1110
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:19,560
Speaker 3: The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song

1111
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 3: is Matasowski. You can check out more of his music

1112
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:25,959
Speaker 3: and audio projects at Matasowski dot com, m A T

1113
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 3: T O S O W s ki dot com. You

1114
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 3: can email me at easy at Better offline dot com

1115
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 3: or visit Better offline dot com to find more podcast

1116
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 3: links and of course, my newsletter. I also really recommend

1117
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Speaker 3: you go to chat dot where's youreaed dot at to

1118
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Speaker 3: visit the discord, and go to our slash.

1119
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:44,720
Speaker 2: Better Offline to check out our reddit.

1120
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:48,760
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening Better Offline is a

1121
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 3: production of cool Zone Media. For more from cool Zone Media,

1122
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 3: visit our website cool zonemedia dot com, or check us

1123
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:58,120
Speaker 3: out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

1124
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 3: get your podcasts.