WEBVTT - Amy Lee

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Wefts. That's fivecast.

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<v Speaker 1>My guest today is the one and only Amy Amy.

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<v Speaker 1>You're in your old studio. Your people say that you're

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<v Speaker 1>very technologically savvy, so tell me about that.

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<v Speaker 2>That's really funny considering that I was just saying I

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<v Speaker 2>always messed this up, and for once I had it

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<v Speaker 2>working right from the get go. Yeah, I guess I started.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, what can I say? Like, we make our demos.

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<v Speaker 2>Been doing that for twenty plus years at this point.

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<v Speaker 2>So learning pro tools and all that, it's been a

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<v Speaker 2>major instrument in my life.

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<v Speaker 1>So in the old days, you used to have a

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<v Speaker 1>Portis studio, et cetera. How'd you start recording?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, when we were in high school, the guy that

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<v Speaker 2>we started the band together, Ben Moody, it was all

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<v Speaker 2>about whatever we get our hands on. It wasn't like

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<v Speaker 2>pro tools back then. It was like an eight track

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<v Speaker 2>or a sixteen track recorder where you record some and

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<v Speaker 2>then you bounce them down, you know, until you run

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<v Speaker 2>out of room and just like making songs like that.

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<v Speaker 2>So that just has evolved over the years as technology

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<v Speaker 2>has changed and become something where I can use more

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<v Speaker 2>and more from home on the actual records.

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<v Speaker 1>So today you record in pro tools or logic? What

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<v Speaker 1>do you use pro tools?

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<v Speaker 2>I've actually been using pro tools since like right after

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<v Speaker 2>we finished our first big tour, which was fallen. We

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<v Speaker 2>got home and I had our in your monitor guy

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<v Speaker 2>come over and just like spend a day. I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>just teach me how to do this so I can

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<v Speaker 2>do it myself. And then I've always had wonderful engineer

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<v Speaker 2>type dudes in my life that I can call and

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<v Speaker 2>be like, help, I'm stuck. So here I am.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you generally good with tech?

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<v Speaker 3>It's really just a necessity thing.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I kind of I'm where I would call myself

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<v Speaker 2>an analog girl in a digital world. But when you

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<v Speaker 2>care about something enough, you know you find a way.

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<v Speaker 1>So so, how much equipment do you have at home?

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<v Speaker 2>I got this lovely Telefunken Mike that I've been using

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<v Speaker 2>this year. Now you forty seven. I really I've got

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of keyboards. I've been using the profit more

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<v Speaker 2>than any of them in the last couple of years

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<v Speaker 2>as we've been working on this new music. What else

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<v Speaker 2>have I got? Just lots of keyboard stuff, a good

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<v Speaker 2>little pro tool set up, I don't like it to

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<v Speaker 2>get too complicated because I get bogged down in that.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, it's like you spend too much. I hate it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the worst thing ever when you come out you

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<v Speaker 2>want to work on something and the stuff won't work

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<v Speaker 2>and you just want to get your idea down and

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<v Speaker 2>not deal with you know, when you're fiddling with the

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<v Speaker 2>remote how it's the most annoying thing in the world.

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<v Speaker 2>Just drains your energy. So I try to keep it

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<v Speaker 2>fairly simple.

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<v Speaker 1>So when do you get your ideas all.

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<v Speaker 2>The time, all the time? Anytime? Sometimes it takes a

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<v Speaker 2>long time.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean, okay, so you're coming up with ideas

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<v Speaker 1>all the time some people. For me, I get good

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<v Speaker 1>ideas in the shower. It's like, if I'm sitting in

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<v Speaker 1>front of the computer and trying to come up with ideas,

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<v Speaker 1>that's hard. Yeah, But if I'm.

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<v Speaker 3>Doing something else, why I totally agree with that.

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<v Speaker 2>Usually, like I guess, driving in the car, I like

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<v Speaker 2>to walk in the woods, walk down the street. I

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<v Speaker 2>lived in Brooklyn for thirteen years, and it was always

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<v Speaker 2>really inspiring to me. If I ever felt like, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know, I needed inspiration or just to clear my head,

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<v Speaker 2>to just get out of the house and walk put

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<v Speaker 2>headphones on or not, and just walk around the neighborhood

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<v Speaker 2>and like smell other people's cooking and hear the music

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<v Speaker 2>they're playing and overheard conversations and all that.

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<v Speaker 1>So when Amy Lee walks down the street to people recognize.

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<v Speaker 2>Her sometimes not all the time, probably not as much

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<v Speaker 2>as you'd think, you know, it kind of depends it. Actually,

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<v Speaker 2>it is dependent on if we're like actively have a

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<v Speaker 2>single out at the moment, because it's like if you're

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<v Speaker 2>in somebody's mind, they're like, oh, hey, there she is.

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<v Speaker 2>But I generally like to go pretty young. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>wear the black eyelander in like real life very much.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, And how do you deal with it when someone

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<v Speaker 1>comes up to you?

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<v Speaker 2>I think people, honestly, people are mostly pretty nice. People

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<v Speaker 2>are if they're I don't know if it's like specific

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<v Speaker 2>to like our type of music or what, but usually

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<v Speaker 2>it's people being cool, just being like, oh my god,

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<v Speaker 2>I've loved you since high school or like that one

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<v Speaker 2>song changed my life, and you're just like thanks and

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<v Speaker 2>you go on your way. It's it's not so good

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<v Speaker 2>when they follow you home. That's that's the part where

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<v Speaker 2>you got to kind of go, okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, being a woman in music to what degree or

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<v Speaker 1>stalker is a problem.

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<v Speaker 2>It's it's been a problem. It's been a real problem

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<v Speaker 2>from from early days.

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<v Speaker 1>Actually, Okay, are these people just mentally ill or they infatuated?

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<v Speaker 2>I I do, honestly like the ones that have been serious,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like a serious problem. It is mental illness,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's it's you kinda. I mean, I've learned how

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<v Speaker 2>naturally what you want to do is what are they thinking?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, like get inside the head of somebody and

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<v Speaker 2>you can't like something's broken in there. So I try to,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, we have as much grace as possible at

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<v Speaker 2>the same time, like there is there is a line

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<v Speaker 2>that has to be drawn, and it is. It is

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<v Speaker 2>different being being a woman, and it's different having a family.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it's not just about protecting myself. There's a

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<v Speaker 2>bigger layer there where security has become you know, really

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<v Speaker 2>just important. Obviously it's important. But yeah, it's funny you

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<v Speaker 2>brought that.

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<v Speaker 3>Up quickly in the interview.

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<v Speaker 2>It's definitely very real in my life and I will

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<v Speaker 2>talk about it very much.

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<v Speaker 1>So having these bad experiences, does that make you anxious

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<v Speaker 1>about getting close to your fans.

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<v Speaker 2>H I I have Well there, I think it's more

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<v Speaker 2>like just knowing the balance, knowing line, knowing the balance

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<v Speaker 2>of you know, where's the line where there's a there's

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<v Speaker 2>a difference between people that really know you and that

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<v Speaker 2>you really know and the fans. And I love our fans,

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<v Speaker 2>but you do have to be careful. You definitely do

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<v Speaker 2>have to draw that line. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, let me give you an example from my own life.

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<v Speaker 1>The people who send the longest emails are the weirdest people,

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<v Speaker 1>and the people have to be afraid of They're passionate,

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<v Speaker 1>as opposed to someone to just send you a couple

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<v Speaker 1>of sentences or apparently sure. Sure, My point being the

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<v Speaker 1>way I say, you know, ten percent of the public

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<v Speaker 1>is certifiably nuts. You just don't know what ten percent

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<v Speaker 1>it is.

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<v Speaker 2>It's true, It's true. Yeah, I can get a lot

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<v Speaker 2>worse than a long email.

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<v Speaker 1>To what degree are you available online?

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like I'm less available online than most people

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<v Speaker 2>these days. It didn't used to be such a sort

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<v Speaker 2>of I don't know, essential piece being constantly you know,

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<v Speaker 2>engaging directly because it well, it didn't used to really

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<v Speaker 2>be possible. But when we started out it was like

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<v Speaker 2>there was my Space, and I feel like Facebook was

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<v Speaker 2>maybe just beginning, but it wasn't even like I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>even there was chat rooms like we would do like

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<v Speaker 2>a fun like I don't remember what we called him,

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<v Speaker 2>like a log thing like a little thread we can

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<v Speaker 2>go and you could always see the conversation like frozen there,

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<v Speaker 2>which was cute. But for the most part, that sort

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<v Speaker 2>of started happening later. And there's I feel like there's

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<v Speaker 2>a really good side as well as a dark side

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<v Speaker 2>to that. And the good side is I used to

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<v Speaker 2>get I don't know, a lot of anxiety doing interviews, honestly,

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<v Speaker 2>because I found, you know, we came out to see

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<v Speaker 2>when I was twenty one, honestly, just a couple years

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<v Speaker 2>at high school, and you just, you know, suddenly like

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<v Speaker 2>in this big arena with everybody looking at you and

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<v Speaker 2>talking about you and judging you and whatever, and trying

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<v Speaker 2>to see, okay, is this legit? Or I love you

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<v Speaker 2>so much?

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<v Speaker 3>Whatever it is?

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<v Speaker 2>So all these interviews, you know, when it gets put

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<v Speaker 2>in print and on a big platform and your face

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<v Speaker 2>is on the cover and all those things, and you

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<v Speaker 2>don't have any control over like how that comes across

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<v Speaker 2>it's different. It's school that we're doing a podcast because

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<v Speaker 2>you can hear the tones of our voices and like

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<v Speaker 2>what we're saying. But I feel like so often, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>things get sort of misunderstood or translated in a different way.

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<v Speaker 3>I written down wrong, and I oftentimes.

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<v Speaker 2>Felt like people felt like they had a story to

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<v Speaker 2>write in their mind before we ever really spoke, when

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<v Speaker 2>it was like, you know, just summon us up, who's

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<v Speaker 2>this new kid in town kind of thing. Now I

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<v Speaker 2>feel like I can just say something or clear something up,

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<v Speaker 2>or if something's a misunderstanding or any drama, it's like, hey, guys,

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<v Speaker 2>here's a deal.

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<v Speaker 3>You know it's not don't have to be a big thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I will say the press always gets it wrong

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<v Speaker 1>basically dealing with me and I without telling my own examples.

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<v Speaker 1>But let's go back to the anxiety. Obviously you were

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<v Speaker 1>on the stage before. I mean it's sometimes tens of thousands.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's go back to high school or maybe your regular life. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>do you have social anxiety of any degree talking to people?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I don't really feel that way, but

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<v Speaker 2>maybe we all do to some degree. Yeah, sure, there's

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<v Speaker 2>times when you don't want to be on and you

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<v Speaker 2>have to be on. But I mean, I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe you deal with that too. It's just one of

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<v Speaker 2>those things where you have to get in the right

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<v Speaker 2>mindset of like, all right, it's just talking. I don't know.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh ky, social anxiety.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, I mean after pandemic listen, after that, having to

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<v Speaker 2>go back on stage again was weird. It was really

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<v Speaker 2>really weird at first, even masked up alone in your

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<v Speaker 2>house wearing pjs for like a year and a half,

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<v Speaker 2>and then it's like, cool, get on stage in front

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<v Speaker 2>of like seven thousand people, no problem.

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<v Speaker 3>I feel like we're back though.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, at this point in time, other than your husband

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<v Speaker 1>and your child, do you have any people who were friends,

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<v Speaker 1>forget business, who you're in contact with on a regular basis.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, of course, Well not necessarily, of course there

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<v Speaker 1>are people. Okay. Oh, so would you call one of

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<v Speaker 1>those people and say, hey, assuming they live near you, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>let's get together and say are you more waiting for

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<v Speaker 1>them to suggest it, and you'll say yes or no.

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<v Speaker 3>It's definitely both.

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<v Speaker 1>I have.

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<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't I wouldn't be me if I didn't have

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<v Speaker 2>real people and real friends in my life that I

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to be around and called up and hung out

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<v Speaker 2>with My best friend is maya hair and makeup artists

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<v Speaker 2>for the last twenty years, trying to think when she

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<v Speaker 2>actually came on the road. We met in high school

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<v Speaker 2>and we're friends. And I went on the road and

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<v Speaker 2>I was out for like I think six months without her,

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<v Speaker 2>just doing our thing, and it was lonely and stressful,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was the only girl ever all the time.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember, I forget why it came up. And somebody's like,

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<v Speaker 2>why don't you just have somebody, you know, do your

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<v Speaker 2>hair and stuff? And I was like, I could do that, really,

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<v Speaker 2>They're like, uh yeah, and I was. I called her

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<v Speaker 2>and I was like, Hey, would you want to like

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<v Speaker 2>quit the salon like for a year or whatever and

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<v Speaker 2>like come on tour and do my hair and makeup

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<v Speaker 2>and we get to hang out and see the world.

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<v Speaker 3>And she was like, yes, hell, yes, I would love

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<v Speaker 3>to do that.

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<v Speaker 2>And we've been doing that ever since. I couldn't do

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<v Speaker 2>it without Beth Wilson.

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<v Speaker 1>How do you decide how much to pay a friend?

0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:33.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh, that's hard. I would say, always overpay your friend.

0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:37.120
<v Speaker 1>I would think so, but you know, it's weird when

0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:38.720
<v Speaker 1>you mix friendship and money.

0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:42.240
<v Speaker 3>Sure, it is, of course it is. That's why it's

0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:43.040
<v Speaker 3>a true friendship.

0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:45.800
<v Speaker 2>Like and I think you know, we're all in that

0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:47.920
<v Speaker 2>situation being in a band together and working together. We

0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:50.360
<v Speaker 2>are we are making money, you know, and that is

0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:53.199
<v Speaker 2>a part of it. But we also have to have trust.

0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:57.480
<v Speaker 2>We also have to really love what we're doing and

0:11:57.840 --> 0:11:59.600
<v Speaker 2>love each other and want to I feel like that.

0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:02.040
<v Speaker 2>When it's not like that, that's when things start breaking down.

0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:05.079
<v Speaker 1>You know, I'm beating a dead horse with anxiety thing.

0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:07.960
<v Speaker 1>But since you mentioned I want to focus. Okay, okay,

0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:12.880
<v Speaker 1>you were in high school, You're going to class like

0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:18.440
<v Speaker 1>anybody else. Are you more of you know, there's some

0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:22.680
<v Speaker 1>people who are constantly talking, they're the life of the party.

0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:26.480
<v Speaker 1>Than the other extreme, there's the loner. Obviously you're not

0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:30.680
<v Speaker 1>that person. But are you the type of person who's

0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:34.120
<v Speaker 1>more Aggressive's got a bad connotation, but more putting yourself

0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:38.839
<v Speaker 1>out there in social situations, not work situations or not

0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:39.680
<v Speaker 1>bearing your music.

0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:43.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm more I'm yeah, I'm a natural introvert. Like I

0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:47.480
<v Speaker 2>I not because I'm afraid. It's not about anxiety. It's

0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:51.520
<v Speaker 2>because I love being by myself or like with one person.

0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:56.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm just sort of an intimate person. So, and I

0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:59.160
<v Speaker 2>love to make stuff. I love to be quiet and

0:12:59.200 --> 0:13:03.400
<v Speaker 2>be by myself create It's usually music, but also art

0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:07.600
<v Speaker 2>and crafting and or just being with a bestie. Having

0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:10.600
<v Speaker 2>a deep conversation is so much more me than go

0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:13.880
<v Speaker 2>into a show or go into a party where there's

0:13:13.920 --> 0:13:15.720
<v Speaker 2>a bunch of people talking and it's noisy and you

0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:18.400
<v Speaker 2>gotta keep your brain constantly moving from one thing to

0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:21.280
<v Speaker 2>the next. That, yes, my my favorite is definitely the

0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:21.880
<v Speaker 2>calmer one.

0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:24.240
<v Speaker 3>But I do both, I mean right, right, But.

0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:29.199
<v Speaker 1>You answered the question being a naturally introvert, et cetera. Yeah,

0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:32.559
<v Speaker 1>So how does a natural introvert wanting a loane time

0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:34.360
<v Speaker 1>cope with having a child?

0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:40.880
<v Speaker 2>Aw, he's he's my favorite. There's I mean, I don't

0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:42.960
<v Speaker 2>know if you have kids, but I do not have kids.

0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:49.480
<v Speaker 2>I you can't be prepared for, like how much love

0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:54.960
<v Speaker 2>for me personally? Like I didn't know that I had

0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:57.640
<v Speaker 2>that extra chamber in my heart just waiting to open

0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.840
<v Speaker 2>up and love somebody so much. I love my son.

0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:02.800
<v Speaker 2>I would love to be around him all the time.

0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:05.120
<v Speaker 2>I need space for my brain to be quiet. Or

0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:07.800
<v Speaker 2>we're actually wired kind of similarly He likes it quiet too,

0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:10.240
<v Speaker 2>so like we can just sit and be quiet and

0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:13.640
<v Speaker 2>enjoy something together without constantly mommy this, mommy that he's

0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:14.000
<v Speaker 2>not like that.

0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:14.640
<v Speaker 3>He's a cool kid.

0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:19.360
<v Speaker 1>Is he aware that you're Amy Lee performer? Yes?

0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:22.840
<v Speaker 2>And he has just over the past like year or

0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.880
<v Speaker 2>so maybe two, really reached that age where he thinks

0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:29.640
<v Speaker 2>it's really cool and realizes that it isn't normal. I

0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:31.440
<v Speaker 2>don't know if maybe in the beginning he thought every's

0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:34.800
<v Speaker 2>mom was a rock star, but now he knows it's

0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:37.680
<v Speaker 2>special and it's really cool and he likes to tell everybody.

0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:39.880
<v Speaker 1>So how does he deal with that with his friends?

0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:42.720
<v Speaker 3>He has one friend that like teases me. He's like, oh,

0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:43.840
<v Speaker 3>I have a nesscence is here.

0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:50.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, shut up, Okay, I gotta stop right now. Okay,

0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:53.920
<v Speaker 1>in that I know you've been at. Evan Essence is

0:14:53.960 --> 0:15:00.760
<v Speaker 1>a word I've used since college. Okay, not regular the public.

0:15:01.280 --> 0:15:03.400
<v Speaker 1>How did it become evanescence?

0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:05.280
<v Speaker 3>Well, that's why.

0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:10.000
<v Speaker 2>That's why it was one of those things where every

0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:14.280
<v Speaker 2>every every word that or or a couple of words

0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:16.440
<v Speaker 2>that we were trying to think of to name the

0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:20.360
<v Speaker 2>band back in those early early days reminded us of

0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:24.640
<v Speaker 2>something else, and I think, you know, we really wanted

0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:26.880
<v Speaker 2>something that was like nothing else. We wanted to be

0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:28.400
<v Speaker 2>like nothing else, and we didn't want there to be

0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.120
<v Speaker 2>any like previous connotation with the words. It was literally

0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:33.160
<v Speaker 2>just became this like okay, just start looking for cruel

0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:34.000
<v Speaker 2>words in the dictionary.

0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:36.240
<v Speaker 3>And you know the meaning is important.

0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:38.160
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's something about it, but it's it's more

0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:40.440
<v Speaker 2>of just like it's almost like an adjective.

0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:45.520
<v Speaker 1>But evanescence has a specific meaning. Yes, the concept of evanescence.

0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:47.840
<v Speaker 1>Is it really just about the cool word, or it

0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:50.720
<v Speaker 1>is about something being here and disappearing whatever.

0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:52.240
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:53.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't it wasn't that deep as far as the

0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:55.720
<v Speaker 2>meaning of it, to be very honest, I think it's

0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:57.800
<v Speaker 2>come to mean more over time, Like a lot of

0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:00.840
<v Speaker 2>the stuff from back then just sort of like searching,

0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:05.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, making sounds and figuring out what my voice

0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:09.320
<v Speaker 2>sounds like, and taking the things that we're into, you know,

0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:14.200
<v Speaker 2>from movie scores to like contemporary nineties music and all

0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:18.200
<v Speaker 2>kinds of stuff classical and then making sounds that I

0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:20.760
<v Speaker 2>don't know, Naming that is hard. I didn't want to

0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:23.920
<v Speaker 2>like stick it in the box of any particular genre

0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:28.880
<v Speaker 2>or connotation. So it's like, just find something beautiful and

0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:31.640
<v Speaker 2>it's interesting. It's kind of funny, I don't it certainly

0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:35.120
<v Speaker 2>wasn't intentional, but it's interesting because like over time, we

0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:40.440
<v Speaker 2>are definitely a band who has like appeared and been

0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:42.080
<v Speaker 2>doing our thing and been very active and all that,

0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:44.240
<v Speaker 2>and then just sort of disappeared for a while and

0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:48.600
<v Speaker 2>come back, you know, when when when the time is right,

0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.120
<v Speaker 2>when when it's in my heart, you know, and when

0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:53.520
<v Speaker 2>when things line up like they're supposed to. So I

0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:56.360
<v Speaker 2>don't know, maybe it's it's gotten a meaning over the years,

0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:58.440
<v Speaker 2>but no, there's not a huge one, not really.

0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:11.440
<v Speaker 1>Okay, people are interacting with you all the time, can

0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:13.000
<v Speaker 1>they spell eminescence?

0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:20.160
<v Speaker 2>Not always, you know, not always usually usually by now,

0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:21.400
<v Speaker 2>come on, we've got time.

0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:25.040
<v Speaker 1>Okay, back to you know, being an introvert. So I

0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:28.440
<v Speaker 1>realize you have a child, but left to your own devices,

0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:30.480
<v Speaker 1>you a morning person, night person.

0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:36.320
<v Speaker 2>Oh night very much vampire hours naturally, but yeah, you

0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:37.280
<v Speaker 2>can't be that when you're a mom.

0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:39.160
<v Speaker 3>So I was up six twenty this morning.

0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:43.240
<v Speaker 1>So you say that you have ideas all the time,

0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:49.800
<v Speaker 1>but do you find late night more inspiring than during the.

0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:54.000
<v Speaker 2>Day generally, yeah, because it just feels like extra time.

0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:56.719
<v Speaker 2>It's like nobody's waiting on me. There's not something else

0:17:56.720 --> 0:17:58.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm supposed to be doing. You know, this is the

0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:02.840
<v Speaker 2>free secret out. So I feel like naturally things kind

0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:05.760
<v Speaker 2>of come to you then. But I don't know. I

0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:08.440
<v Speaker 2>all throughout the day, like I'll think of a little

0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:12.239
<v Speaker 2>melody idea or some like hear like a little bit

0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:13.679
<v Speaker 2>of a song or something in my head and just

0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:16.800
<v Speaker 2>grab my voice notes and stick it in there. And

0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:19.440
<v Speaker 2>I've got I mean, there's over a thousand in here.

0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:22.480
<v Speaker 2>So then when it's time to go into the studio

0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:24.440
<v Speaker 2>and play, it's like, oh, what was I thinking about earlier?

0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:27.919
<v Speaker 2>Scroll through the notes, find whatever that was, or just

0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:28.400
<v Speaker 2>come in here.

0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:29.880
<v Speaker 3>And when I don't have an idea, I.

0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:32.160
<v Speaker 2>Love to just play with with keyboards, play with somethcizors,

0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:35.520
<v Speaker 2>turn it on, find an arpeggiator, hold one note and

0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:36.399
<v Speaker 2>start singing stuff.

0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:37.400
<v Speaker 3>That's always fun.

0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:45.280
<v Speaker 1>Okay, people have different styles. What would trigger you wanting

0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:46.600
<v Speaker 1>to make an album?

0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:55.199
<v Speaker 2>It's interesting you say album because it doesn't have to

0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:59.240
<v Speaker 2>be that anymore, right, like make a song, and it's

0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:02.320
<v Speaker 2>but we do we make albums. I think that that's

0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:06.320
<v Speaker 2>something that the fans want. I think that it's beautiful

0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:08.080
<v Speaker 2>when you can come up with a full book of

0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:11.240
<v Speaker 2>music and put it out, it feels really good.

0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:12.760
<v Speaker 3>It's also a big undertaking.

0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:16.359
<v Speaker 2>So my thought isn't usually ever like I'm gonna go

0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:18.680
<v Speaker 2>sit down and we're gonna make a whole album right now.

0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:22.359
<v Speaker 2>As much as I, you know, want that, that seems daunting.

0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:25.560
<v Speaker 2>So for me, it's getting inspired about a single idea,

0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:30.880
<v Speaker 2>about a song by a cool collaboration, you know, or

0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:33.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, we we came up with something that feels new,

0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:35.760
<v Speaker 2>and it's like, oh, let's make more music that sounds

0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:40.159
<v Speaker 2>like that, finding a great producer, lots of things. We're

0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:44.080
<v Speaker 2>in the thick of it right now. And honestly, the

0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:48.439
<v Speaker 2>last few years years from us have been I have

0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:52.600
<v Speaker 2>really felt like this upward trajectory this many years in

0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:57.439
<v Speaker 2>so like playing shows, I'm trying to think when to

0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:01.560
<v Speaker 2>start the timeline from, but honestly, coming from the pandemic,

0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:06.720
<v Speaker 2>let's start there. Like we kind of just ramped up,

0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:08.320
<v Speaker 2>like each tour was like a bigger one and a

0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:10.919
<v Speaker 2>bigger one and a bigger one for whatever reason, and

0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:12.840
<v Speaker 2>we had the bitter truth, which is our last album

0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:15.640
<v Speaker 2>that we loved so much, having new music to play,

0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:18.520
<v Speaker 2>having something fresh to say. We had I felt like

0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:20.560
<v Speaker 2>I had so much to say when we were making

0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:23.960
<v Speaker 2>music in twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, that was that was

0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:25.600
<v Speaker 2>the big thing. And all of a sudden we were

0:20:25.600 --> 0:20:28.439
<v Speaker 2>down this path and getting things out that felt like

0:20:29.600 --> 0:20:33.440
<v Speaker 2>they're putting something good into the world, something useful, something

0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:36.240
<v Speaker 2>where we could connect and bring people together in a

0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:40.720
<v Speaker 2>positive way. But I now like at this point, running

0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:43.560
<v Speaker 2>off of that, I don't want I want to keep playing.

0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:45.440
<v Speaker 2>We're having a great time, the band is in a

0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:48.560
<v Speaker 2>great place, the shows are bigger than ever, and I

0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:50.160
<v Speaker 2>need new songs, Like I don't want to play those

0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:53.879
<v Speaker 2>same songs anywhere. They're awesome, But like I'm I'm changing still.

0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:59.520
<v Speaker 1>I guess what I'm asking the Stones legendarily come in, Well,

0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:01.919
<v Speaker 1>you know, I have an idea. The Eagles did that

0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:05.000
<v Speaker 1>a certain way. It's talking about classic acts. I guess

0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:09.040
<v Speaker 1>what I'm saying is you could come in with a song,

0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:13.240
<v Speaker 1>platform fully formed, you got a verse, ro out of chorus, whatever.

0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:15.879
<v Speaker 1>But it's different from sitting Well, let me go to

0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:17.720
<v Speaker 1>my notes app and see what I have.

0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:21.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, see those both exist in my life for sure,

0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:22.919
<v Speaker 2>Like if we're gonna get together, hey guys, let's get

0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:24.240
<v Speaker 2>there and do some writing. We do that all the time,

0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:28.480
<v Speaker 2>just like honestly, I've been getting more into like camps.

0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:31.600
<v Speaker 2>Like we have a tour and we have a show

0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:34.840
<v Speaker 2>on Friday and Saturday, and then we don't have another

0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:37.240
<v Speaker 2>show until like the next Thursday. I'll be like, well,

0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:38.960
<v Speaker 2>instead of everybody going home, why don't we grab an

0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:41.960
<v Speaker 2>Airbnb set up in the living room, you know, at

0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:44.119
<v Speaker 2>like a listenable level, and like jam and see what

0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:46.760
<v Speaker 2>we got. Whenever we do those sessions, it's fun to

0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:48.679
<v Speaker 2>just jam out of nothing. But I always show up

0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:51.359
<v Speaker 2>with ideas like I got this cool chorus, like let's

0:21:51.359 --> 0:21:51.879
<v Speaker 2>make a song.

0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:55.119
<v Speaker 1>You know. Will you ever sit there you're all in

0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:58.000
<v Speaker 1>the living room and you say, let's go through the notes.

0:21:58.040 --> 0:21:59.680
<v Speaker 1>App this sounds good?

0:21:59.720 --> 0:22:03.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Like what about this idea? Hold on?

0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:04.520
<v Speaker 3>Well, all listen to it and be're like okay, and

0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:05.600
<v Speaker 3>then like jam it on the piano.

0:22:06.880 --> 0:22:10.200
<v Speaker 1>Well, recently you've done a certain number of collaborations.

0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:11.360
<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm.

0:22:12.080 --> 0:22:15.760
<v Speaker 1>Collaboration and working alone is very different. What are your

0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:16.680
<v Speaker 1>feelings there?

0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:21.240
<v Speaker 2>I I feel like I've grown into it more and

0:22:21.280 --> 0:22:23.120
<v Speaker 2>more loving it, embracing it.

0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:27.040
<v Speaker 3>I think after falling.

0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:31.800
<v Speaker 2>And the guy that I started the band with, he

0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:35.159
<v Speaker 2>left like in the in the tour on our first album,

0:22:35.480 --> 0:22:36.439
<v Speaker 2>and that was a good thing for us.

0:22:36.480 --> 0:22:37.840
<v Speaker 3>It was the only way.

0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:42.400
<v Speaker 2>But it there was I just felt that I had

0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:44.560
<v Speaker 2>so much to prove and I was excited to like

0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:46.639
<v Speaker 2>I was ready to prove it, but I had a

0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:49.240
<v Speaker 2>ton to prove because the easiest thing to say is, oh, well,

0:22:49.640 --> 0:22:51.640
<v Speaker 2>it's not the original thing anymore, Like she can't do.

0:22:51.560 --> 0:22:52.119
<v Speaker 3>It by herself.

0:22:52.440 --> 0:22:53.760
<v Speaker 2>So I had to. I had to prove that I

0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:56.040
<v Speaker 2>could do it myself. So it was super important to

0:22:56.080 --> 0:22:58.440
<v Speaker 2>me back then to do everything myself. I didn't want

0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:01.000
<v Speaker 2>any help, and immediately, of course the label saying, okay,

0:23:01.000 --> 0:23:03.600
<v Speaker 2>we need co writers. Now, let's go and do it

0:23:03.600 --> 0:23:04.960
<v Speaker 2>the way everybody does it. And I was like, I

0:23:04.960 --> 0:23:07.359
<v Speaker 2>don't want that. I'm not just the singer upfront, I'm

0:23:07.480 --> 0:23:10.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm that let me do that, and you know, used

0:23:10.840 --> 0:23:16.240
<v Speaker 2>my band, you know, and that was it really important

0:23:16.280 --> 0:23:17.239
<v Speaker 2>for me at the time. It was.

0:23:17.720 --> 0:23:20.040
<v Speaker 3>It's still important. It's still a big part of me.

0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:23.040
<v Speaker 2>But I at this point after our second album, which

0:23:23.119 --> 0:23:24.600
<v Speaker 2>I love and I'm so proud of and it was

0:23:24.880 --> 0:23:27.120
<v Speaker 2>such a journey where I felt like I got this

0:23:27.280 --> 0:23:29.720
<v Speaker 2>you know kind of attitude. And then the third one

0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:32.960
<v Speaker 2>where you know, our self titled album was very much

0:23:33.840 --> 0:23:36.080
<v Speaker 2>a band album for the first time. Like that whole

0:23:36.200 --> 0:23:38.520
<v Speaker 2>situation I described about sitting in a room and jamming together.

0:23:38.560 --> 0:23:40.960
<v Speaker 2>I never would have done that back in high school.

0:23:41.200 --> 0:23:42.560
<v Speaker 2>That wasn't what it was. We were a studio of

0:23:42.600 --> 0:23:44.159
<v Speaker 2>bad or just a couple of kids making stuff and

0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:45.879
<v Speaker 2>recording it as we went. We sort of had to

0:23:45.880 --> 0:23:49.520
<v Speaker 2>build the band to make the album, so you know,

0:23:49.720 --> 0:23:51.520
<v Speaker 2>at that point it was like, oh we went to

0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:54.440
<v Speaker 2>rock school. Nick Raskilnic sat and was like, all right, guys,

0:23:54.720 --> 0:23:57.280
<v Speaker 2>play me a song, no tracks, no nothing, just you guys,

0:23:57.480 --> 0:23:58.840
<v Speaker 2>just jam in the room. Let's hear, I don't know,

0:23:58.840 --> 0:24:01.560
<v Speaker 2>bring me to life. And uh, it.

0:24:01.600 --> 0:24:03.640
<v Speaker 3>Was so funny because we hadn't played.

0:24:03.480 --> 0:24:05.480
<v Speaker 2>Like in a year or year and a half, and

0:24:05.560 --> 0:24:08.560
<v Speaker 2>we certainly wouldn't do like no no no synth, no

0:24:08.560 --> 0:24:11.880
<v Speaker 2>no tracks, no nothing, okay, and we sucked. It's not terrible,

0:24:13.840 --> 0:24:15.359
<v Speaker 2>it was so bad and we were all just like,

0:24:15.400 --> 0:24:17.560
<v Speaker 2>oh my gosh, I don't even want to work with us,

0:24:18.280 --> 0:24:20.080
<v Speaker 2>and he was like, all right, all right, we got

0:24:20.080 --> 0:24:23.520
<v Speaker 2>some work to do, and it was such a good

0:24:23.680 --> 0:24:29.960
<v Speaker 2>exercise because it forced us to really like grow as

0:24:30.080 --> 0:24:32.920
<v Speaker 2>musicians in that setting. If you can make it sound

0:24:33.040 --> 0:24:36.399
<v Speaker 2>great like a garage band, then whatever else is going

0:24:36.480 --> 0:24:38.159
<v Speaker 2>to go on, you know, as a part of it,

0:24:38.200 --> 0:24:41.399
<v Speaker 2>that's great, but that's gravy, like the band is strong.

0:24:41.880 --> 0:24:44.679
<v Speaker 2>And to even just like be in that setting and

0:24:44.720 --> 0:24:47.040
<v Speaker 2>write write some songs or even pieces of songs like

0:24:47.119 --> 0:24:50.199
<v Speaker 2>in that way was really inspiring to me at the

0:24:50.200 --> 0:24:53.920
<v Speaker 2>time because it was it was new and that that

0:24:55.080 --> 0:24:58.080
<v Speaker 2>so then Bitter Truth fast forward another bunch of years,

0:24:58.119 --> 0:25:01.480
<v Speaker 2>because it always takes me forever. Then it was like

0:25:01.520 --> 0:25:04.240
<v Speaker 2>this beautiful combination of remembering the roots of being a

0:25:04.280 --> 0:25:08.600
<v Speaker 2>studio artist and using all the elements and the production

0:25:08.680 --> 0:25:10.840
<v Speaker 2>and making sauces in here in my studio and together,

0:25:11.040 --> 0:25:13.040
<v Speaker 2>but also being able to jam in the room and

0:25:13.080 --> 0:25:14.920
<v Speaker 2>write like that and have the best of both worlds

0:25:15.000 --> 0:25:18.720
<v Speaker 2>was really awesome and cool and inspiring. And now like

0:25:18.840 --> 0:25:21.879
<v Speaker 2>we're still on that, that's still where we are. But

0:25:22.520 --> 0:25:26.400
<v Speaker 2>this music that we're making now is once again more

0:25:26.480 --> 0:25:31.040
<v Speaker 2>studio focused. More it's taking me back to the beginning

0:25:32.040 --> 0:25:35.920
<v Speaker 2>in all of the best ways and making me feel comfortable.

0:25:36.359 --> 0:25:39.800
<v Speaker 2>Your question was about collaboration. I don't feel like I

0:25:39.880 --> 0:25:42.879
<v Speaker 2>have to prove that anymore. Like I know what I

0:25:42.880 --> 0:25:44.960
<v Speaker 2>can do. I've proven what I can do. I'm great

0:25:44.960 --> 0:25:48.200
<v Speaker 2>at what I do. But there's nothing but gain that

0:25:48.280 --> 0:25:51.199
<v Speaker 2>can come from trying to work with other people and

0:25:51.240 --> 0:25:54.000
<v Speaker 2>see what they can bring to the table, you know,

0:25:54.119 --> 0:25:56.440
<v Speaker 2>and see what can happen when you write together. And

0:25:56.480 --> 0:26:00.359
<v Speaker 2>I've had a lot of writing sessions, some about you

0:26:00.400 --> 0:26:01.720
<v Speaker 2>know me and.

0:26:01.760 --> 0:26:03.520
<v Speaker 3>Some about other people's projects over the.

0:26:03.560 --> 0:26:07.680
<v Speaker 2>Last ten years, honestly, which have been so life giving

0:26:07.720 --> 0:26:12.560
<v Speaker 2>and such a great experience and education for me to

0:26:12.680 --> 0:26:17.840
<v Speaker 2>learn seeing the window in other people's process and learning

0:26:17.880 --> 0:26:20.480
<v Speaker 2>new things to try. You know, it can only make

0:26:20.480 --> 0:26:22.000
<v Speaker 2>you grow. You can always say, you know what, this

0:26:22.080 --> 0:26:23.800
<v Speaker 2>isn't working, and sometimes it doesn't work.

0:26:24.119 --> 0:26:26.160
<v Speaker 3>But when you catch lightning with somebody, that's great.

0:26:26.280 --> 0:26:28.760
<v Speaker 2>You just I don't I have no ego about that anymore.

0:26:28.920 --> 0:26:33.600
<v Speaker 1>Okay, If you write the song yourself, it's completely uncompromised,

0:26:34.119 --> 0:26:37.960
<v Speaker 1>it's what you want to do. Then there's the concept,

0:26:38.040 --> 0:26:40.520
<v Speaker 1>which is really how most people do it. They have

0:26:40.600 --> 0:26:44.440
<v Speaker 1>a song, but then the band adds something. Okay, right,

0:26:44.560 --> 0:26:48.440
<v Speaker 1>that's one stuff. Then there's the other thing. Two people

0:26:48.520 --> 0:26:50.400
<v Speaker 1>are going to sit in the room or else they're

0:26:50.440 --> 0:26:53.760
<v Speaker 1>going to send stuff back and forth with email, right,

0:26:54.080 --> 0:26:57.199
<v Speaker 1>and no one's going to agree one hundred percent of

0:26:57.240 --> 0:26:57.800
<v Speaker 1>the time.

0:26:58.000 --> 0:26:58.440
<v Speaker 3>That's right.

0:26:58.680 --> 0:27:05.040
<v Speaker 1>And in addition, inherently having someone else, it's not completely

0:27:05.040 --> 0:27:07.160
<v Speaker 1>your vision. Let me go once. I know a guy

0:27:07.200 --> 0:27:11.080
<v Speaker 1>in publishing forever, he's a big believer. There's all the

0:27:11.119 --> 0:27:14.320
<v Speaker 1>great slaw you know, songwriters a collaboration. I don't always

0:27:14.359 --> 0:27:18.920
<v Speaker 1>agree with him. So is collaboration? Do you sometimes say wow,

0:27:19.000 --> 0:27:21.719
<v Speaker 1>I would never have come up with that, this is

0:27:21.800 --> 0:27:24.800
<v Speaker 1>so great, or what we have is good. It was

0:27:24.880 --> 0:27:27.840
<v Speaker 1>give and take, or that's good. But really I like

0:27:27.880 --> 0:27:29.480
<v Speaker 1>what I do myself the best.

0:27:30.880 --> 0:27:33.560
<v Speaker 2>I think I've done everything you just describe by the

0:27:33.600 --> 0:27:36.080
<v Speaker 2>way and all of it recently, Like I've done every

0:27:36.080 --> 0:27:38.080
<v Speaker 2>style I like. I like to not be stuck to

0:27:38.080 --> 0:27:42.920
<v Speaker 2>one process. But it absolutely depends on who you're writing

0:27:42.920 --> 0:27:45.560
<v Speaker 2>with or working with whoever it is that you're inviting

0:27:45.560 --> 0:27:49.320
<v Speaker 2>into that very intimate space, like what's going to happen

0:27:49.359 --> 0:27:51.520
<v Speaker 2>and the arguments, you know, I want to say arguments.

0:27:51.520 --> 0:27:54.760
<v Speaker 2>They're usually fun arguments, But all of that push and

0:27:54.800 --> 0:27:57.560
<v Speaker 2>pull is either going to be something where there's trust,

0:27:57.960 --> 0:28:00.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, and you get to and awesome place, or

0:28:01.000 --> 0:28:03.080
<v Speaker 2>there's not and you don't really like what the other person's.

0:28:02.760 --> 0:28:04.240
<v Speaker 3>Prying at the table, and then that you know that

0:28:04.240 --> 0:28:04.960
<v Speaker 3>it's not working.

0:28:05.560 --> 0:28:09.000
<v Speaker 2>But I feel also like it is important to have

0:28:09.040 --> 0:28:12.359
<v Speaker 2>somebody who's the leader and who's going to at the

0:28:12.440 --> 0:28:13.520
<v Speaker 2>end of the day say you know what I like

0:28:13.560 --> 0:28:14.919
<v Speaker 2>a not be and that's what we're gonna go with.

0:28:14.960 --> 0:28:16.440
<v Speaker 3>We're not going to sit here and argue about it.

0:28:16.640 --> 0:28:17.119
<v Speaker 3>And that's me.

0:28:17.720 --> 0:28:20.120
<v Speaker 2>So whether it's writing with the band, whether it's doing

0:28:20.119 --> 0:28:22.960
<v Speaker 2>something with the producer, whether it's co writer's situation, or

0:28:22.960 --> 0:28:25.520
<v Speaker 2>we're doing things together, I'm gonna at the end of

0:28:25.520 --> 0:28:28.160
<v Speaker 2>the day and make the call, you know, pretty much.

0:28:28.520 --> 0:28:30.919
<v Speaker 2>But at the same time, like if you're bringing in

0:28:30.960 --> 0:28:37.119
<v Speaker 2>people that you respect and you want them in the mix,

0:28:37.320 --> 0:28:39.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, and they're feeling then it's not like I'm

0:28:39.680 --> 0:28:41.880
<v Speaker 2>shooting stuff down that much. It's more like, oh, yeah,

0:28:41.920 --> 0:28:43.360
<v Speaker 2>except go over here and then we do this and

0:28:43.760 --> 0:28:44.560
<v Speaker 2>everybody's loving it.

0:28:45.320 --> 0:28:47.560
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's be No. You've had a couple of big

0:28:47.600 --> 0:28:51.880
<v Speaker 1>successes recently with collaboration. How did these come about and

0:28:51.920 --> 0:28:53.480
<v Speaker 1>how did you actually do it?

0:28:55.480 --> 0:28:57.600
<v Speaker 3>They're all different. Where do you want to start?

0:28:57.840 --> 0:28:58.720
<v Speaker 1>I'll leave it to you.

0:28:58.720 --> 0:28:59.720
<v Speaker 3>You want me to pick something?

0:29:00.000 --> 0:29:04.400
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Well, wait, when's this going to come out?

0:29:04.680 --> 0:29:06.520
<v Speaker 1>Whenever you want?

0:29:06.720 --> 0:29:09.560
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Well, i'm a I have a really awesome collab

0:29:09.560 --> 0:29:10.720
<v Speaker 2>coming out in just a few days.

0:29:11.440 --> 0:29:13.240
<v Speaker 1>It's not going to come out before a few days,

0:29:13.280 --> 0:29:14.680
<v Speaker 1>so okay.

0:29:14.960 --> 0:29:20.400
<v Speaker 2>So uh this, I'll just start with my most recent one.

0:29:20.720 --> 0:29:24.640
<v Speaker 2>Courtney La Plant and Poppy and me have this three

0:29:24.640 --> 0:29:27.640
<v Speaker 2>way cool collab. And it's also a clab with Jordan Fish.

0:29:27.800 --> 0:29:31.200
<v Speaker 2>I feel like it really came from him. It came

0:29:31.200 --> 0:29:34.520
<v Speaker 2>from him and Poppy, and it started because Jordan and

0:29:34.600 --> 0:29:37.600
<v Speaker 2>I have been working together quite a bit. We worked

0:29:37.600 --> 0:29:41.920
<v Speaker 2>on the Halsey song I did earlier this year together. Uh.

0:29:41.960 --> 0:29:43.520
<v Speaker 2>We met a few years ago when he was a

0:29:43.560 --> 0:29:46.920
<v Speaker 2>premier The Horizon, and now we've been working on songs for

0:29:47.000 --> 0:29:49.360
<v Speaker 2>our album together, which has been incredible. He's like a

0:29:49.400 --> 0:29:50.600
<v Speaker 2>missing piece in my life.

0:29:52.440 --> 0:29:54.880
<v Speaker 3>Anyway. He called me a round I don't know Christmas

0:29:54.920 --> 0:29:57.040
<v Speaker 3>time and was like, hey, I have this idea.

0:29:57.200 --> 0:29:57.680
<v Speaker 2>Check it out.

0:29:57.840 --> 0:29:59.520
<v Speaker 3>Like I was just thinking, wouldn't be so awesome? On'm

0:29:59.520 --> 0:29:59.800
<v Speaker 3>I working with?

0:30:00.280 --> 0:30:01.880
<v Speaker 2>We're talking about a colah blah blah, and he just

0:30:01.920 --> 0:30:04.400
<v Speaker 2>it was just an idea of of the three of

0:30:04.480 --> 0:30:06.440
<v Speaker 2>us on a track. It's kind of where that whole

0:30:06.440 --> 0:30:08.400
<v Speaker 2>thing started. And I was like, I mean that would

0:30:08.440 --> 0:30:10.200
<v Speaker 2>be amazing. We gotta, you know, think of a song.

0:30:11.360 --> 0:30:12.880
<v Speaker 2>And I think he's kind of the master of just

0:30:12.920 --> 0:30:15.680
<v Speaker 2>like whipping stuff up really quick that sounds hypey and good,

0:30:15.960 --> 0:30:18.520
<v Speaker 2>but it's fast, just on his laptop and coming up

0:30:18.520 --> 0:30:21.440
<v Speaker 2>with he's just a good songwriter, so and making it

0:30:21.440 --> 0:30:23.680
<v Speaker 2>sound saucy enough in the bedeo that you can imagine,

0:30:23.720 --> 0:30:26.480
<v Speaker 2>you can imagine what it's going to be. And he

0:30:26.560 --> 0:30:29.320
<v Speaker 2>sent a song starter idea. Oh my god, the weirdest thing.

0:30:29.960 --> 0:30:34.200
<v Speaker 2>So this is a first. So he sent me this

0:30:34.440 --> 0:30:37.160
<v Speaker 2>the beginning of the song. It's called the end of

0:30:37.200 --> 0:30:40.400
<v Speaker 2>You Now, End of You. So it starts with this

0:30:40.600 --> 0:30:43.080
<v Speaker 2>really cool ambient stuff and a vocal and the idea

0:30:43.120 --> 0:30:47.040
<v Speaker 2>is it would be my voice, and he he, I

0:30:47.280 --> 0:30:49.000
<v Speaker 2>don't know what the app is. Apparently there's a bunch

0:30:49.040 --> 0:30:50.960
<v Speaker 2>of them, but you can just like type Amy Lee

0:30:51.480 --> 0:30:53.720
<v Speaker 2>like the sound of my voice.

0:30:54.160 --> 0:30:55.120
<v Speaker 3>And he sung it.

0:30:55.600 --> 0:30:58.240
<v Speaker 2>He like sung a melody you know, no no, no, no, no,

0:30:58.040 --> 0:30:59.600
<v Speaker 2>no whatever, but like type my name in. So it

0:30:59.640 --> 0:31:02.400
<v Speaker 2>sounded kind of like me, and it was wild, like

0:31:02.440 --> 0:31:04.720
<v Speaker 2>because I was laughing. I was like, how did you

0:31:04.800 --> 0:31:05.000
<v Speaker 2>do that?

0:31:05.120 --> 0:31:06.520
<v Speaker 3>What did you do? And he was like, that's my voice.

0:31:06.520 --> 0:31:08.080
<v Speaker 3>I just put it through. And I was like, that's

0:31:08.640 --> 0:31:11.200
<v Speaker 3>amazing because it's convincing.

0:31:11.720 --> 0:31:13.280
<v Speaker 2>I guess it's made up of pieces of things that

0:31:13.320 --> 0:31:15.760
<v Speaker 2>I've done and I don't know how it worked, but anyway,

0:31:16.120 --> 0:31:19.080
<v Speaker 2>he just like could show me that vibe and they

0:31:19.080 --> 0:31:21.560
<v Speaker 2>had that start going. That was a really good start already,

0:31:21.560 --> 0:31:22.200
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, I love it.

0:31:22.280 --> 0:31:22.760
<v Speaker 3>Let's do this.

0:31:22.800 --> 0:31:24.440
<v Speaker 2>So when I get home and I've got my pro tools,

0:31:24.440 --> 0:31:29.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, send me you know, the instrumental and you know,

0:31:29.080 --> 0:31:30.760
<v Speaker 2>by itself and if I need anything else whatever, and

0:31:30.760 --> 0:31:32.520
<v Speaker 2>I just play and come up with ideas and cut

0:31:32.560 --> 0:31:34.200
<v Speaker 2>and paste and whatever, and we send back and forth

0:31:34.240 --> 0:31:34.440
<v Speaker 2>a bit.

0:31:34.480 --> 0:31:35.480
<v Speaker 3>We were kind of the same.

0:31:36.160 --> 0:31:39.320
<v Speaker 2>And then later on after we had a solid start going,

0:31:39.400 --> 0:31:41.520
<v Speaker 2>he and Poppy came over to my house that came

0:31:41.560 --> 0:31:43.960
<v Speaker 2>in this room and.

0:31:43.880 --> 0:31:44.440
<v Speaker 3>We just sat here.

0:31:44.480 --> 0:31:46.400
<v Speaker 2>It was it was interesting because the beginning was for

0:31:46.440 --> 0:31:48.680
<v Speaker 2>me to sing, and it was like mostly they're already

0:31:48.720 --> 0:31:51.960
<v Speaker 2>like the first verse and the start of the chorus,

0:31:53.040 --> 0:31:55.000
<v Speaker 2>and then it's like okay, like let's wrap up this

0:31:55.080 --> 0:31:56.840
<v Speaker 2>chorus and we figured that out and I was like, Okay,

0:31:56.880 --> 0:31:58.560
<v Speaker 2>now let's work on the second verse. This will be

0:31:58.600 --> 0:32:01.200
<v Speaker 2>Poppies verse. And it was fun because it was like

0:32:01.320 --> 0:32:03.960
<v Speaker 2>she wrote like a lot of the lyrics that I'm singing,

0:32:03.960 --> 0:32:05.760
<v Speaker 2>and I wrote a lot of a lot of the

0:32:05.840 --> 0:32:07.120
<v Speaker 2>lyrics that she is saying.

0:32:07.680 --> 0:32:10.000
<v Speaker 3>And then it's like, okay, we need a bridge. Let's

0:32:10.000 --> 0:32:11.400
<v Speaker 3>bring Courtney and let's do this whole thing.

0:32:12.600 --> 0:32:15.400
<v Speaker 2>And Courtney's band got involved a little bit, and it

0:32:15.440 --> 0:32:16.960
<v Speaker 2>was just sort of this everybody in the pool, very

0:32:17.000 --> 0:32:21.800
<v Speaker 2>collaborative but very remote process. And those can work like

0:32:21.840 --> 0:32:25.440
<v Speaker 2>if everybody's savvy, you know, and everybody can kind of

0:32:25.480 --> 0:32:26.959
<v Speaker 2>throw their shit in the computer and throw it in

0:32:27.000 --> 0:32:29.200
<v Speaker 2>for demo land until we do it for real or whatever.

0:32:29.520 --> 0:32:31.200
<v Speaker 3>I think that works great.

0:32:31.800 --> 0:32:35.280
<v Speaker 2>So we made this really killer song and it really

0:32:35.320 --> 0:32:38.160
<v Speaker 2>just came out of just a concept and then make

0:32:38.200 --> 0:32:40.600
<v Speaker 2>it come true with whatever tools available wherever we were,

0:32:40.920 --> 0:32:43.200
<v Speaker 2>like throwing down vocals from around the world.

0:32:44.080 --> 0:32:47.280
<v Speaker 1>There you go, so you you don't do it Nashville's style,

0:32:47.680 --> 0:32:50.680
<v Speaker 1>where we're meeting at ten in the morning, we're all

0:32:50.920 --> 0:32:52.840
<v Speaker 1>shit in the room. By one pm, we're going to

0:32:52.920 --> 0:32:53.720
<v Speaker 1>have a song.

0:32:54.120 --> 0:32:56.680
<v Speaker 2>I cannot do that. That is not in my DNA.

0:32:57.280 --> 0:32:58.160
<v Speaker 3>I can.

0:32:58.320 --> 0:33:01.000
<v Speaker 2>I have put myself in situauation similar to that to

0:33:01.000 --> 0:33:04.200
<v Speaker 2>write for other people, and they have been productive. But

0:33:04.400 --> 0:33:06.520
<v Speaker 2>the part that you said where it's like we're gonna

0:33:06.560 --> 0:33:09.040
<v Speaker 2>be done in a couple, there's no way I have

0:33:09.080 --> 0:33:12.320
<v Speaker 2>to walk into a writing situation, whatever it is, with this,

0:33:12.480 --> 0:33:16.360
<v Speaker 2>with my band or with somebody else, thinking it's okay

0:33:16.480 --> 0:33:18.360
<v Speaker 2>if nothing happens, like it's okay.

0:33:18.520 --> 0:33:20.680
<v Speaker 3>If you go home tonight and you don't.

0:33:20.440 --> 0:33:22.840
<v Speaker 2>Have a song, like, don't feel like a failure, because

0:33:22.880 --> 0:33:25.320
<v Speaker 2>I think you have to just try things. You just

0:33:25.400 --> 0:33:27.640
<v Speaker 2>have to go down the road and don't shoot everything

0:33:27.680 --> 0:33:30.600
<v Speaker 2>down that comes into your head, allow it to live

0:33:30.920 --> 0:33:33.520
<v Speaker 2>for a minute before you decide, ah, this is garbage,

0:33:33.600 --> 0:33:37.120
<v Speaker 2>let's start over. So sometimes you go down a lot

0:33:37.120 --> 0:33:40.080
<v Speaker 2>of roads that could have been cool but didn't work

0:33:40.160 --> 0:33:41.840
<v Speaker 2>out like you wanted, and you just got to just

0:33:41.920 --> 0:33:46.400
<v Speaker 2>keep playing until it happens. And I think opening your

0:33:46.440 --> 0:33:50.760
<v Speaker 2>heart is the greatest ingredient. Just have an open heart,

0:33:50.880 --> 0:33:54.680
<v Speaker 2>don't have worry or a schedule so much like, oh

0:33:55.240 --> 0:33:58.760
<v Speaker 2>I can't do this, Just relax, open your mind, think

0:33:58.760 --> 0:34:00.640
<v Speaker 2>about something else. If you don't feel like like, go

0:34:00.720 --> 0:34:02.400
<v Speaker 2>take a walk, go do something else. Come back to

0:34:02.440 --> 0:34:05.320
<v Speaker 2>it later when it's night and you're feeling moody, like,

0:34:05.520 --> 0:34:09.400
<v Speaker 2>just allow the spirit to move you, because I feel

0:34:09.400 --> 0:34:12.760
<v Speaker 2>like that ingredient is the most essential ingredient and it's

0:34:12.800 --> 0:34:17.760
<v Speaker 2>it really is an ingredient that's beyond my control, which

0:34:17.960 --> 0:34:21.160
<v Speaker 2>makes it magic. The magic comes from something beyond me

0:34:21.200 --> 0:34:23.239
<v Speaker 2>saying this is what I want to write. That's not

0:34:23.280 --> 0:34:25.520
<v Speaker 2>really how it is. It's not math. It has to

0:34:25.560 --> 0:34:27.160
<v Speaker 2>sort of come from something.

0:34:34.920 --> 0:34:38.520
<v Speaker 1>Okay, before we get back to the magic. Does it

0:34:38.600 --> 0:34:42.960
<v Speaker 1>make any difference if you're collaborating in person as opposed

0:34:42.960 --> 0:34:45.040
<v Speaker 1>to online sending things back and forth.

0:34:46.000 --> 0:34:48.280
<v Speaker 3>There's something pretty cool about being in person.

0:34:48.440 --> 0:34:52.400
<v Speaker 2>I will say I again, I've had cool success with

0:34:52.440 --> 0:34:55.680
<v Speaker 2>remote after life was a totally remote thing. Alex Seber

0:34:55.760 --> 0:34:59.840
<v Speaker 2>and I were apart, like laying stuff down and writing ideas.

0:35:00.000 --> 0:35:02.920
<v Speaker 2>But when you can be together in the moment and

0:35:02.960 --> 0:35:05.920
<v Speaker 2>somebody says how about this, you know, and you're like, ooh,

0:35:06.480 --> 0:35:08.239
<v Speaker 2>do that, but go up not down, and then I'm

0:35:08.239 --> 0:35:10.560
<v Speaker 2>gonna jump in. It's just different when you have the

0:35:10.640 --> 0:35:14.000
<v Speaker 2>instant back and forth because you can try it four

0:35:14.040 --> 0:35:16.960
<v Speaker 2>ways before agreeing on which way. You're going to go

0:35:16.960 --> 0:35:19.600
<v Speaker 2>with that particular turnaround before going to the next section,

0:35:19.640 --> 0:35:21.400
<v Speaker 2>You know what I mean? Yeah, there is definitely something

0:35:21.400 --> 0:35:22.680
<v Speaker 2>special about being in the room.

0:35:23.280 --> 0:35:27.080
<v Speaker 1>Okay, the magic this is I feel you can separate

0:35:28.080 --> 0:35:30.360
<v Speaker 1>the artists from everybody else. There are a few people

0:35:30.520 --> 0:35:33.480
<v Speaker 1>going back to ancient history Steely Dan Eagles, who build

0:35:33.520 --> 0:35:40.760
<v Speaker 1>things step by step. But you know when you create

0:35:40.760 --> 0:35:44.520
<v Speaker 1>an eleven, but you can't create an eleven every day.

0:35:45.440 --> 0:35:47.200
<v Speaker 2>No okay.

0:35:47.480 --> 0:35:50.239
<v Speaker 1>So as you say, you don't have to have an

0:35:50.280 --> 0:35:53.719
<v Speaker 1>album today, but your audience wants an album. If you

0:35:53.800 --> 0:35:57.120
<v Speaker 1>were waiting to put out an album with elevens, that

0:35:57.239 --> 0:36:03.640
<v Speaker 1>might be eleven years right, So how do you deal

0:36:03.719 --> 0:36:06.600
<v Speaker 1>with As I say, it comes rarely, we go this

0:36:06.680 --> 0:36:09.719
<v Speaker 1>is unbelievable, and as you say, you channel it. It

0:36:09.880 --> 0:36:12.120
<v Speaker 1>just comes from some place you don't know, and you say,

0:36:12.360 --> 0:36:14.239
<v Speaker 1>I gotta be buy a keyboard right away, I gotta

0:36:14.320 --> 0:36:17.320
<v Speaker 1>lay it down. It's fah okay. How about the rest

0:36:17.320 --> 0:36:17.960
<v Speaker 1>of the stuff.

0:36:21.120 --> 0:36:24.640
<v Speaker 2>You know, we talked about time in between. Like my

0:36:24.960 --> 0:36:31.239
<v Speaker 2>standard that I've always held myself like two is it

0:36:31.280 --> 0:36:33.120
<v Speaker 2>has to be at least as good as falling in

0:36:33.160 --> 0:36:36.200
<v Speaker 2>my head to me, Like whether or not anybody else

0:36:36.239 --> 0:36:41.080
<v Speaker 2>thinks so. So I've never allowed time to pressure me

0:36:41.640 --> 0:36:43.919
<v Speaker 2>into putting it out until I really truly did feel

0:36:43.960 --> 0:36:47.360
<v Speaker 2>like there were all elevens for me. And sometimes that

0:36:47.400 --> 0:36:51.560
<v Speaker 2>takes five years. So I have to live with it forever.

0:36:52.480 --> 0:36:54.200
<v Speaker 2>I love all of our music that we put out.

0:36:54.520 --> 0:36:56.120
<v Speaker 2>I don't have to sit back and go, oh, except

0:36:56.120 --> 0:36:56.399
<v Speaker 2>that one.

0:36:56.440 --> 0:36:58.640
<v Speaker 1>But you really, you're typical. You don't listen to your

0:36:58.680 --> 0:36:59.280
<v Speaker 1>old records.

0:36:59.360 --> 0:37:02.680
<v Speaker 2>To you, I mean, I don't really have a choice

0:37:03.239 --> 0:37:06.240
<v Speaker 2>because I mean, well, we're playing them live, and that's different.

0:37:06.239 --> 0:37:06.799
<v Speaker 3>We have a lot of stun.

0:37:06.960 --> 0:37:09.400
<v Speaker 1>That's different. You're playing it live. It's different from dropping

0:37:09.400 --> 0:37:11.400
<v Speaker 1>the needles, so to speak, on an old rerec.

0:37:11.360 --> 0:37:14.359
<v Speaker 2>I don't usually drop, but once in a whiles were like, oh, yeah,

0:37:14.360 --> 0:37:16.040
<v Speaker 2>I remember that thing. I'm gonna listen to that right now.

0:37:16.200 --> 0:37:19.440
<v Speaker 2>Not usually because I've listened to it. I have listened

0:37:19.440 --> 0:37:22.640
<v Speaker 2>to it like thousands of times as we were making it.

0:37:22.680 --> 0:37:24.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm a total perfectionist in the recording process.

0:37:25.160 --> 0:37:28.759
<v Speaker 1>Okay, but let's say, for whatever reason, you listen five

0:37:28.840 --> 0:37:31.719
<v Speaker 1>to ten years later, do you WinCE and say, oh,

0:37:31.719 --> 0:37:33.839
<v Speaker 1>I shouldn't have done that, or I wish i'd put

0:37:33.880 --> 0:37:37.319
<v Speaker 1>this in whatever I mean not yes.

0:37:37.600 --> 0:37:41.080
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, the answer is yes, But I mean mostly

0:37:41.200 --> 0:37:42.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going, oh my god, I hate it so

0:37:42.680 --> 0:37:45.920
<v Speaker 2>much like now and any of that stuff. Really it's

0:37:46.000 --> 0:37:48.600
<v Speaker 2>from the first one. It's it's only then because I

0:37:48.640 --> 0:37:49.600
<v Speaker 2>can really hear.

0:37:51.040 --> 0:37:52.640
<v Speaker 3>The child.

0:37:52.800 --> 0:37:55.080
<v Speaker 2>I can hear me as a little kid. I can

0:37:55.080 --> 0:37:58.279
<v Speaker 2>hear me just figuring stuff out and being nineteen and

0:37:59.200 --> 0:38:02.279
<v Speaker 2>not really knowing necessarily how that structure is supposed to work,

0:38:02.320 --> 0:38:06.279
<v Speaker 2>but just doing something close, you know, I don't know.

0:38:06.680 --> 0:38:08.960
<v Speaker 2>I hear lyrics sometimes too, when you're younger, you're like,

0:38:08.960 --> 0:38:10.080
<v Speaker 2>oh God, you were young.

0:38:10.719 --> 0:38:12.600
<v Speaker 1>How do you end up working with Halsey?

0:38:14.320 --> 0:38:18.600
<v Speaker 2>That one was out of nowhere. I have to back

0:38:18.600 --> 0:38:20.040
<v Speaker 2>it up to Fight Like a Girl because that's how

0:38:20.040 --> 0:38:24.800
<v Speaker 2>it started. So this movie Ballerina where those that song

0:38:25.000 --> 0:38:27.919
<v Speaker 2>and fight like a Girl uh with KFLA were both

0:38:28.000 --> 0:38:34.000
<v Speaker 2>for this movie Ballerina from the John Wick world. So Tyler,

0:38:34.360 --> 0:38:36.200
<v Speaker 2>Tyler Bates, he's awesome.

0:38:36.239 --> 0:38:36.920
<v Speaker 3>Do you know who that is?

0:38:36.960 --> 0:38:39.279
<v Speaker 2>He's a he's a well he's the score composer for

0:38:39.320 --> 0:38:42.560
<v Speaker 2>all the John Wicks, but also like Sucker Punch and

0:38:42.960 --> 0:38:45.000
<v Speaker 2>just a whole bunch of stuff, and he's just a

0:38:45.120 --> 0:38:49.080
<v Speaker 2>very cool, cool music I don't know how I'm not

0:38:49.120 --> 0:38:50.200
<v Speaker 2>describing it well. He's awesome.

0:38:50.400 --> 0:38:50.760
<v Speaker 3>Anyway.

0:38:50.960 --> 0:38:54.640
<v Speaker 2>We've been friends for a long time and always would

0:38:54.680 --> 0:38:57.560
<v Speaker 2>like talked about we would like to work together, but

0:38:57.840 --> 0:39:01.640
<v Speaker 2>hadn't had a reason or found the opportunity, and just

0:39:01.680 --> 0:39:03.880
<v Speaker 2>one of those things. So he called me around in December,

0:39:03.920 --> 0:39:07.160
<v Speaker 2>also same time, everything just at once. This time. It

0:39:07.239 --> 0:39:09.239
<v Speaker 2>was just like so many things kind of came at

0:39:09.280 --> 0:39:11.080
<v Speaker 2>me at the same time, and I just was just yes,

0:39:11.280 --> 0:39:13.319
<v Speaker 2>just saying yes, working really hard, saying yes to all

0:39:13.320 --> 0:39:15.840
<v Speaker 2>the good stuff. Tyler was like, Hey, I think I

0:39:15.880 --> 0:39:19.680
<v Speaker 2>found our thing, you know, working on this thing for Lionsgate.

0:39:19.840 --> 0:39:23.560
<v Speaker 2>It's about a chick kicking ass and Lionsgate actually mentioned you,

0:39:23.600 --> 0:39:24.760
<v Speaker 2>and I was like, oh my god, they'd be perfect.

0:39:24.760 --> 0:39:27.320
<v Speaker 2>And I actually know her so and I was like okay.

0:39:27.840 --> 0:39:29.799
<v Speaker 2>So we started working on a song that he came

0:39:29.880 --> 0:39:31.920
<v Speaker 2>up with the start for remotely and sent to me,

0:39:31.960 --> 0:39:34.120
<v Speaker 2>and I came up with the you know, melody stuff

0:39:34.120 --> 0:39:38.799
<v Speaker 2>over here, and Halsey was in the conversation that I'd

0:39:38.840 --> 0:39:41.320
<v Speaker 2>heard like Lionsgate talking about to you, like oh, wouldn't

0:39:41.360 --> 0:39:42.839
<v Speaker 2>it be cool? And I was like, Yeah, that would

0:39:42.880 --> 0:39:46.160
<v Speaker 2>be cool. So it was just one of those things

0:39:46.160 --> 0:39:47.480
<v Speaker 2>where I tried to reach out to her, but I

0:39:47.520 --> 0:39:49.799
<v Speaker 2>had I don't know her or I didn't so I

0:39:49.800 --> 0:39:51.920
<v Speaker 2>hadn't gotten a hold of her and just sort of

0:39:52.080 --> 0:39:56.320
<v Speaker 2>moved on. And then halfway down the road on that song,

0:39:56.960 --> 0:39:58.640
<v Speaker 2>she reached out to me and she was like, Hey,

0:39:58.760 --> 0:40:00.920
<v Speaker 2>I have a song idea like that we should do,

0:40:01.040 --> 0:40:03.719
<v Speaker 2>like for this movie. And I was like, well, I'm

0:40:03.719 --> 0:40:08.160
<v Speaker 2>already working on one, you know, please don't take my job.

0:40:10.040 --> 0:40:12.160
<v Speaker 2>But she was like well whatever, She's like, I honestly,

0:40:12.160 --> 0:40:13.640
<v Speaker 2>I'd just like to work with you, whether it's for

0:40:13.680 --> 0:40:16.319
<v Speaker 2>the movie or not, Like I think it'd just be

0:40:16.320 --> 0:40:19.320
<v Speaker 2>really cool to do something together. And here's the start,

0:40:19.840 --> 0:40:22.560
<v Speaker 2>and she had the verse the first person chorus like

0:40:22.640 --> 0:40:25.719
<v Speaker 2>demoed of the Hand that Feeds and I thought it

0:40:25.760 --> 0:40:27.680
<v Speaker 2>was so good, Like right away, I was like, well,

0:40:27.719 --> 0:40:30.279
<v Speaker 2>this is a hit song, okay, And I was like

0:40:30.320 --> 0:40:32.000
<v Speaker 2>I'd love to I'd love to finish this with you

0:40:32.040 --> 0:40:35.000
<v Speaker 2>and sing this with you. So that was it was

0:40:35.040 --> 0:40:36.640
<v Speaker 2>just her coming out of nowhere. And I've, you know,

0:40:36.680 --> 0:40:38.280
<v Speaker 2>of course, behind this. He's like, hey, we can.

0:40:38.160 --> 0:40:40.560
<v Speaker 3>Have two right? Can we have two songs like please?

0:40:41.480 --> 0:40:43.200
<v Speaker 2>And they were like yeah, we'd love to have two twos.

0:40:43.239 --> 0:40:44.799
<v Speaker 3>Even better, and it was just this cool thing.

0:40:44.840 --> 0:40:46.640
<v Speaker 2>So now at the end of the movie, there's two

0:40:46.640 --> 0:40:48.120
<v Speaker 2>in a row that I got to be a part of,

0:40:48.160 --> 0:40:51.440
<v Speaker 2>two different really cool collaborations. And I think it just

0:40:51.480 --> 0:40:54.839
<v Speaker 2>comes from artists. And Kaflay is me on the other

0:40:54.920 --> 0:40:57.319
<v Speaker 2>end of that, reaching out to her because we're, you know,

0:40:57.400 --> 0:40:58.920
<v Speaker 2>working on this song and I love her. I'm a

0:40:58.920 --> 0:41:01.040
<v Speaker 2>big fan, and she's in my head. She's in my

0:41:01.080 --> 0:41:03.279
<v Speaker 2>heart because I listened to her and I heard her

0:41:03.360 --> 0:41:05.440
<v Speaker 2>voice when we started writing the Bridge. I was like, Oh,

0:41:05.520 --> 0:41:08.960
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't that be cool? So I just found a number

0:41:09.000 --> 0:41:12.080
<v Speaker 2>and called her and that ended up being an incredible thing.

0:41:12.320 --> 0:41:16.839
<v Speaker 2>So I think like we all get inspired by each other,

0:41:17.360 --> 0:41:20.040
<v Speaker 2>you know, and when you have your heart open and

0:41:20.280 --> 0:41:22.239
<v Speaker 2>have that maybe a little bit of a magical, I

0:41:22.239 --> 0:41:27.400
<v Speaker 2>don't know, spunk, like you can think, hey, anything's possible.

0:41:27.600 --> 0:41:29.520
<v Speaker 2>Why not? Why wouldn't Why why should I just call?

0:41:29.719 --> 0:41:32.040
<v Speaker 2>Why should I just try? And then you do, and

0:41:32.080 --> 0:41:34.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, so much of the time it's been more

0:41:34.640 --> 0:41:37.880
<v Speaker 2>than I would have guessed. Like ten years ago, people

0:41:38.000 --> 0:41:40.640
<v Speaker 2>want to work together, like they're like, yeah, hell yeah,

0:41:40.640 --> 0:41:41.759
<v Speaker 2>I'd love to make something with you.

0:41:42.040 --> 0:41:46.759
<v Speaker 1>So okay, you talk about not knowing Halsey, are you

0:41:46.880 --> 0:41:49.760
<v Speaker 1>the type of person who's just in your own vertical?

0:41:50.680 --> 0:41:53.640
<v Speaker 1>You've certainly been on the road with people, but generally speaking,

0:41:54.160 --> 0:41:56.319
<v Speaker 1>do you tend to know and stay in contact with

0:41:56.360 --> 0:41:59.240
<v Speaker 1>other The musicians are really in your own world. Unless

0:41:59.280 --> 0:42:01.479
<v Speaker 1>it's business, you don't know them.

0:42:02.239 --> 0:42:05.399
<v Speaker 2>I make connections with people and stay in touch with them,

0:42:05.719 --> 0:42:07.680
<v Speaker 2>like you meet. All kinds of you have, all kinds

0:42:07.719 --> 0:42:11.759
<v Speaker 2>of you know, fun friends, acquaintances. On tour, we love

0:42:11.800 --> 0:42:13.520
<v Speaker 2>to hang out with bands that we play with. We

0:42:13.600 --> 0:42:15.680
<v Speaker 2>do we hang out backstage. We're not the people that

0:42:15.719 --> 0:42:18.319
<v Speaker 2>stay by ourselves. We're the people coming around. Like I

0:42:18.680 --> 0:42:22.960
<v Speaker 2>My rider on tour is like three bottles of wine,

0:42:23.400 --> 0:42:27.120
<v Speaker 2>a cheese plate, and a veggie tray. And after the show,

0:42:27.239 --> 0:42:29.920
<v Speaker 2>everybody gets cleaned up and does their thing. I grab

0:42:30.000 --> 0:42:32.719
<v Speaker 2>all that stuff and I walk to wherever I hear

0:42:33.000 --> 0:42:33.919
<v Speaker 2>somebody's playing music.

0:42:33.960 --> 0:42:36.120
<v Speaker 3>It's usually the other dress room of.

0:42:36.120 --> 0:42:39.880
<v Speaker 2>The band, the guy's room, and it's Will, our drummer.

0:42:40.320 --> 0:42:40.959
<v Speaker 3>We call it club.

0:42:41.000 --> 0:42:46.279
<v Speaker 2>Willis playing whatever eighties metal to today future rock.

0:42:47.600 --> 0:42:49.160
<v Speaker 3>And I'm like, all right, and I'm bringing this stuff.

0:42:49.160 --> 0:42:51.080
<v Speaker 2>And we hang out and we leave the door open,

0:42:51.160 --> 0:42:53.879
<v Speaker 2>and I want I want to have an experience where

0:42:53.880 --> 0:42:56.239
<v Speaker 2>I get to know whoever we're playing with. I care

0:42:56.320 --> 0:42:58.640
<v Speaker 2>about the bands that if we're headlining, like the bands

0:42:58.680 --> 0:43:01.399
<v Speaker 2>that we choose to come out with us, I really

0:43:01.400 --> 0:43:04.200
<v Speaker 2>put thought into that. That's my opportunity to like curate,

0:43:04.600 --> 0:43:06.680
<v Speaker 2>to show something great, you know, to our fans that

0:43:06.719 --> 0:43:09.719
<v Speaker 2>maybe they haven't heard before that is, you know, up

0:43:09.800 --> 0:43:11.640
<v Speaker 2>and coming, or something that maybe they missed that I

0:43:11.719 --> 0:43:13.920
<v Speaker 2>love that I want to uplift or somebody that is

0:43:13.960 --> 0:43:17.160
<v Speaker 2>inspiring to me because I'm hearing that before our show too.

0:43:17.400 --> 0:43:18.880
<v Speaker 2>I want it to be something great. I want to

0:43:18.880 --> 0:43:21.000
<v Speaker 2>give them a great show from start to finish. So

0:43:21.480 --> 0:43:24.319
<v Speaker 2>we generally like hang out with people that we like

0:43:24.440 --> 0:43:25.120
<v Speaker 2>with music.

0:43:24.880 --> 0:43:27.600
<v Speaker 1>That okay, that's on the road. When you're at home,

0:43:27.880 --> 0:43:30.880
<v Speaker 1>are you emailing these people or it's til you go

0:43:30.960 --> 0:43:34.200
<v Speaker 1>back on the road and you see them again at home.

0:43:34.320 --> 0:43:37.279
<v Speaker 2>I have people that are that are close to my

0:43:37.280 --> 0:43:38.560
<v Speaker 2>heart that I have stayed close with.

0:43:38.600 --> 0:43:41.840
<v Speaker 3>Emma Emma are bass player.

0:43:41.920 --> 0:43:45.000
<v Speaker 2>Now we've been like that for many years before she

0:43:45.160 --> 0:43:49.000
<v Speaker 2>entered this band. We met on the road in seven

0:43:49.080 --> 0:43:51.160
<v Speaker 2>when she was playing with Sick Puppies and we played

0:43:51.280 --> 0:43:55.759
<v Speaker 2>together on a tour and we just clicked like, especially

0:43:55.800 --> 0:43:58.080
<v Speaker 2>when it's it's especially women in my life.

0:43:58.920 --> 0:44:01.160
<v Speaker 3>We're kind of you know, we're still the rarer breed

0:44:01.400 --> 0:44:02.000
<v Speaker 3>on the road.

0:44:03.000 --> 0:44:04.879
<v Speaker 2>And when you meet in the heavy world and when

0:44:04.920 --> 0:44:08.560
<v Speaker 2>you meet somebody in like heavy rock music, that's we

0:44:08.680 --> 0:44:10.879
<v Speaker 2>end up having a lot in common. Nine times out

0:44:10.880 --> 0:44:13.520
<v Speaker 2>of ten just because of the experience. It's just different.

0:44:14.080 --> 0:44:17.359
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you've been doing this for a couple of decades now, yeah,

0:44:17.400 --> 0:44:19.799
<v Speaker 1>but when you first go on the road, if you're

0:44:19.840 --> 0:44:23.600
<v Speaker 1>a guy. Now we live in the cell phone camera error, Jeff.

0:44:23.680 --> 0:44:25.520
<v Speaker 1>They say they want to you know, sex, drugs in

0:44:25.640 --> 0:44:28.080
<v Speaker 1>rock and roll, and there are a bunch of guys.

0:44:28.120 --> 0:44:32.640
<v Speaker 1>I know, some people legendary people never left the hotel room,

0:44:32.719 --> 0:44:37.200
<v Speaker 1>didn't drink, didn't drug whatever. But generally speaking, people like

0:44:37.239 --> 0:44:40.480
<v Speaker 1>to have a good time. What's it like being the woman?

0:44:41.120 --> 0:44:43.720
<v Speaker 1>Do you feel forced to be one of the guys?

0:44:44.400 --> 0:44:48.200
<v Speaker 1>Do you feel the other what's it like? Certainly when

0:44:48.200 --> 0:44:49.240
<v Speaker 1>you started out.

0:44:49.920 --> 0:44:51.839
<v Speaker 2>That's different. I was gonna say, I don't feel any

0:44:51.880 --> 0:44:54.400
<v Speaker 2>of that. I feel happy and surrounded by people that

0:44:54.440 --> 0:44:57.880
<v Speaker 2>I trust. But in the beginning, no, absolutely not. In

0:44:57.920 --> 0:45:02.440
<v Speaker 2>the beginning it was dangerous. There is a lot more

0:45:02.480 --> 0:45:05.480
<v Speaker 2>situations where you kind of need it. Be smart and

0:45:05.520 --> 0:45:09.719
<v Speaker 2>be aware and remove yourself from the situation. Sometimes that's

0:45:09.800 --> 0:45:13.240
<v Speaker 2>just being young and being female. And I we didn't

0:45:13.280 --> 0:45:16.760
<v Speaker 2>start out with security either, and we learned. I learned

0:45:17.400 --> 0:45:19.799
<v Speaker 2>Beth and I together learned the hard way why we

0:45:19.880 --> 0:45:25.280
<v Speaker 2>have to have security. And that's that's every everybody should

0:45:25.320 --> 0:45:25.960
<v Speaker 2>have have that.

0:45:27.320 --> 0:45:31.040
<v Speaker 1>Uh yeah, generally speaking in the music business. To what

0:45:31.120 --> 0:45:32.960
<v Speaker 1>degree of you encountered sexism?

0:45:34.960 --> 0:45:38.200
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I mean what can I say from I

0:45:38.200 --> 0:45:41.680
<v Speaker 2>don't know where to start. I started anywhere a high

0:45:41.680 --> 0:45:47.080
<v Speaker 2>degree from the industry. I think the suits, Like that

0:45:47.200 --> 0:45:49.279
<v Speaker 2>was the first place that I started to recognize it.

0:45:49.600 --> 0:45:52.400
<v Speaker 2>For that just in the idea of how to market

0:45:52.440 --> 0:45:56.080
<v Speaker 2>me and why it was a challenge and what I

0:45:56.120 --> 0:45:59.200
<v Speaker 2>needed to change, like all all those all those thoughts

0:45:59.560 --> 0:46:02.560
<v Speaker 2>were so wild to me. It's like I never thought

0:46:02.560 --> 0:46:04.600
<v Speaker 2>of any of this. This is rock and roll. I'm

0:46:04.600 --> 0:46:07.040
<v Speaker 2>not trying to go up there and be a pop star, Like,

0:46:07.120 --> 0:46:11.640
<v Speaker 2>why are we talking about this? So that was the

0:46:11.680 --> 0:46:21.279
<v Speaker 2>first element. But I think also I definitely was in

0:46:21.280 --> 0:46:27.480
<v Speaker 2>a situation where I was young and surrounded by not

0:46:27.800 --> 0:46:31.000
<v Speaker 2>people that necessarily like were thinking at all about me

0:46:31.280 --> 0:46:33.080
<v Speaker 2>or what was good for me. I was surrounded by

0:46:33.080 --> 0:46:35.719
<v Speaker 2>people that started seeing the opportunity and we're thinking a

0:46:35.760 --> 0:46:39.719
<v Speaker 2>lot about what was best for themselves. So you know

0:46:39.920 --> 0:46:43.719
<v Speaker 2>where that plays into sexism, I guess is the way

0:46:43.719 --> 0:46:45.839
<v Speaker 2>that they treat you to keep you down and keep

0:46:45.840 --> 0:46:49.359
<v Speaker 2>you from thinking that you have too much power. And

0:46:49.400 --> 0:46:52.080
<v Speaker 2>that got in my head real hard in the beginning.

0:46:52.120 --> 0:46:53.200
<v Speaker 2>It was something to overcome.

0:46:54.520 --> 0:46:59.759
<v Speaker 1>So when you experience sexism to what degree was ignorance

0:47:00.280 --> 0:47:03.880
<v Speaker 1>of your viewpoint and what deg we was sort of

0:47:04.000 --> 0:47:06.400
<v Speaker 1>bullying and keeping you under their thumb.

0:47:08.120 --> 0:47:11.640
<v Speaker 2>I felt the under the thumb part a lot, a lot.

0:47:13.719 --> 0:47:18.200
<v Speaker 2>It's like, I don't know, when you're just naive and

0:47:18.400 --> 0:47:21.200
<v Speaker 2>doing everything you can't. It was hard for me for

0:47:21.280 --> 0:47:24.040
<v Speaker 2>a while to see the difference. And it is a

0:47:24.080 --> 0:47:30.600
<v Speaker 2>blurred line between that I was a woman, that I

0:47:30.680 --> 0:47:36.120
<v Speaker 2>was a girl, and that I was young, like because

0:47:36.120 --> 0:47:37.839
<v Speaker 2>people just treat you like you're stupid and you don't

0:47:37.840 --> 0:47:39.799
<v Speaker 2>know any better, and you okay, all right, yeah right,

0:47:39.800 --> 0:47:41.560
<v Speaker 2>Well let me explain to you how this works. Here's

0:47:41.560 --> 0:47:43.920
<v Speaker 2>what you're gonna do, this is what everybody does, and

0:47:43.960 --> 0:47:45.600
<v Speaker 2>you've never done this before, so you have to trust me.

0:47:45.640 --> 0:47:48.799
<v Speaker 2>So here's what's going on. Like that kind of attitude

0:47:49.120 --> 0:47:51.720
<v Speaker 2>is hard when you're brand new and you are supposed

0:47:51.760 --> 0:47:54.360
<v Speaker 2>to okay, like I just signed a contract, I'm supposed

0:47:54.360 --> 0:47:55.160
<v Speaker 2>to whatever.

0:47:55.480 --> 0:47:55.920
<v Speaker 3>But it's not.

0:47:56.360 --> 0:47:58.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm not trying to put it all on the label

0:47:58.120 --> 0:48:00.239
<v Speaker 2>because there was a much bigger, darker thing that I right,

0:48:00.400 --> 0:48:03.279
<v Speaker 2>I really try not to let be my story. There

0:48:03.320 --> 0:48:05.200
<v Speaker 2>was a big part of my story in the early days.

0:48:05.480 --> 0:48:09.640
<v Speaker 2>It was tough within the band in the early days.

0:48:10.440 --> 0:48:14.680
<v Speaker 1>Okay, but the member who is no longer in the band,

0:48:15.719 --> 0:48:18.080
<v Speaker 1>you had a lot of history just you and him

0:48:18.080 --> 0:48:23.319
<v Speaker 1>making music before, right, Yeah, yes, So what was that

0:48:23.440 --> 0:48:26.520
<v Speaker 1>dark force there from the beginning? And it just became

0:48:27.080 --> 0:48:30.360
<v Speaker 1>either bigger or you recognized it or did something change.

0:48:30.400 --> 0:48:33.520
<v Speaker 3>With success, it definitely grew.

0:48:34.160 --> 0:48:39.319
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, success definitely makes everything more complicated.

0:48:41.000 --> 0:48:46.520
<v Speaker 1>Okay, But this is a classic rock and roll story.

0:48:47.280 --> 0:48:51.040
<v Speaker 1>There is a separation between the original members, and one

0:48:51.120 --> 0:48:56.080
<v Speaker 1>member continues to have success and the other member does not. Right,

0:48:57.440 --> 0:49:00.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, do you think about it? Is the other

0:49:00.520 --> 0:49:03.120
<v Speaker 1>person contact you and is bitter? Does the other person

0:49:03.200 --> 0:49:06.720
<v Speaker 1>disappear completely? Is it something you don't even think about?

0:49:07.400 --> 0:49:10.480
<v Speaker 2>It's it's honestly, it's been it has been that long

0:49:10.760 --> 0:49:13.640
<v Speaker 2>where I do feel like I'm in a place where

0:49:14.280 --> 0:49:18.440
<v Speaker 2>that's not motivating anything that I do. Like I definitely,

0:49:18.640 --> 0:49:21.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, felt like a big reaction to the fallout

0:49:21.520 --> 0:49:22.759
<v Speaker 2>between us, like I.

0:49:22.760 --> 0:49:23.520
<v Speaker 3>Needed to react.

0:49:23.560 --> 0:49:25.600
<v Speaker 2>I needed to react in the music, you know, I

0:49:25.640 --> 0:49:27.560
<v Speaker 2>needed to react with the way that I was making

0:49:27.560 --> 0:49:31.000
<v Speaker 2>the music. And I think the harder part was just

0:49:31.080 --> 0:49:33.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, the hurt inside me, Like I hated it.

0:49:34.040 --> 0:49:35.520
<v Speaker 2>I didn't want to feel hurt. I didn't want to

0:49:35.520 --> 0:49:40.000
<v Speaker 2>feel anything like about him about that. I wanted to

0:49:40.080 --> 0:49:43.000
<v Speaker 2>just have my own story that wasn't like, I don't know,

0:49:44.280 --> 0:49:47.680
<v Speaker 2>messed with, but it is what it is. Like you

0:49:47.719 --> 0:49:49.160
<v Speaker 2>come from where you come from, and the things that

0:49:49.200 --> 0:49:52.719
<v Speaker 2>we overcome, I really do. I'm positive make us stronger.

0:49:54.160 --> 0:49:57.840
<v Speaker 2>So to me, like the storyline like for me, like

0:49:57.920 --> 0:50:02.319
<v Speaker 2>moving forward really came. It was about overcoming it for

0:50:02.440 --> 0:50:05.319
<v Speaker 2>a good while, and then there was then life became

0:50:05.320 --> 0:50:07.000
<v Speaker 2>more complicated and there's more to the story, and there's

0:50:07.040 --> 0:50:08.759
<v Speaker 2>so many other people and gosh, that stuff was so

0:50:08.840 --> 0:50:11.440
<v Speaker 2>long ago. It's part of what shapes you and and

0:50:11.440 --> 0:50:14.840
<v Speaker 2>and makes you see people a certain way. But also

0:50:14.920 --> 0:50:18.440
<v Speaker 2>it's something that I'm really at a place at this

0:50:18.520 --> 0:50:22.520
<v Speaker 2>point in my life that I'm ready to like really

0:50:22.600 --> 0:50:26.680
<v Speaker 2>let go of and and see the beauty of what

0:50:26.800 --> 0:50:29.680
<v Speaker 2>we had as well. It's taken the longest for me

0:50:29.719 --> 0:50:32.839
<v Speaker 2>to really look at the early music and and hear

0:50:32.880 --> 0:50:35.960
<v Speaker 2>it and not always have like a pang of ouch

0:50:36.160 --> 0:50:39.160
<v Speaker 2>about something like I'm I'm really at a place now

0:50:39.160 --> 0:50:42.520
<v Speaker 2>where I'm I I remember that love, I remember the

0:50:42.560 --> 0:50:46.520
<v Speaker 2>love in the music of all of that, and you know,

0:50:46.880 --> 0:50:49.040
<v Speaker 2>see what what was special about that that had to

0:50:49.239 --> 0:50:52.040
<v Speaker 2>that had to happen like that, And I am I'm

0:50:52.080 --> 0:50:55.520
<v Speaker 2>grateful for a lot, you know. But yeah, it was

0:50:55.840 --> 0:51:03.000
<v Speaker 2>quite tumultuous behind the scenes.

0:51:07.480 --> 0:51:10.480
<v Speaker 1>Okay, do I have it right? There's history where you

0:51:10.520 --> 0:51:12.680
<v Speaker 1>went to church camp and stuff like that.

0:51:13.520 --> 0:51:16.799
<v Speaker 2>We met at church, Yeah, we did when I was

0:51:16.800 --> 0:51:17.400
<v Speaker 2>like thirteen.

0:51:17.600 --> 0:51:21.240
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So what's your viewpoint on religion? Now?

0:51:22.640 --> 0:51:27.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh it's fucking complicated. How do you sum up your

0:51:27.560 --> 0:51:31.879
<v Speaker 2>viewpoint on religion? I am a spiritual person with an

0:51:31.880 --> 0:51:37.480
<v Speaker 2>open mind on a lot of things, and I don't know.

0:51:38.600 --> 0:51:41.200
<v Speaker 2>It's funny, like I spent a long time really defensive

0:51:41.239 --> 0:51:45.600
<v Speaker 2>about this conversation as well in the early days, because

0:51:45.600 --> 0:51:48.600
<v Speaker 2>it was just this thing that was like penned on

0:51:48.760 --> 0:51:52.480
<v Speaker 2>us about religion. And you're a Christian band or we

0:51:52.600 --> 0:51:55.960
<v Speaker 2>really weren't, but we met at church. There's a lot

0:51:55.960 --> 0:52:00.439
<v Speaker 2>of music at church, and yeah, like I guess world

0:52:00.480 --> 0:52:02.440
<v Speaker 2>of it was like cringey to me because you get

0:52:02.440 --> 0:52:04.439
<v Speaker 2>older and you're like, oh my god, Like it wasn't

0:52:04.480 --> 0:52:09.239
<v Speaker 2>that quit it but spirituality. If I wasn't a spiritual

0:52:09.280 --> 0:52:11.560
<v Speaker 2>person who went deep to make our songs, it wouldn't

0:52:11.560 --> 0:52:14.400
<v Speaker 2>sound like they do. Like I'm definitely trying to channel

0:52:14.719 --> 0:52:17.760
<v Speaker 2>always like something that's bigger than myself. I do believe

0:52:17.800 --> 0:52:20.560
<v Speaker 2>there's absolutely more than just this.

0:52:22.840 --> 0:52:25.799
<v Speaker 1>Okay, jumping around a little bit. How'd you end up

0:52:25.800 --> 0:52:28.480
<v Speaker 1>working on the rehearsal? Uh?

0:52:28.560 --> 0:52:30.920
<v Speaker 3>That is fun? I don't know, they asked me.

0:52:31.400 --> 0:52:35.960
<v Speaker 2>I got I got an email that was describing kind

0:52:36.000 --> 0:52:38.719
<v Speaker 2>of what the rehearsal was, which I didn't know the

0:52:38.760 --> 0:52:42.160
<v Speaker 2>show personally, like I hadn't seen it before, and the

0:52:42.200 --> 0:52:45.879
<v Speaker 2>description like of what it was was like fascinating because

0:52:46.000 --> 0:52:48.400
<v Speaker 2>I don't even know how you how how I was

0:52:48.400 --> 0:52:49.920
<v Speaker 2>trying to explain what it was to my parents and

0:52:49.920 --> 0:52:51.600
<v Speaker 2>I couldn't do it. I was like, it's like you

0:52:51.640 --> 0:52:53.279
<v Speaker 2>know what, You're just gonna have to watch it. Yeah,

0:52:53.640 --> 0:52:58.640
<v Speaker 2>at the beginning, I think it is just a really incredible,

0:52:59.719 --> 0:53:03.080
<v Speaker 2>the coolest license we've ever had. I feel like it's

0:53:03.160 --> 0:53:08.759
<v Speaker 2>part of the story, you know, in an unusual way. Yeah.

0:53:08.760 --> 0:53:10.920
<v Speaker 2>I was literally just like asked for a license request

0:53:10.920 --> 0:53:14.680
<v Speaker 2>that was really really wild. And then months later they

0:53:14.680 --> 0:53:16.680
<v Speaker 2>were like, oh, yeah, hey, that show is going to

0:53:16.760 --> 0:53:18.880
<v Speaker 2>come out that you know you approved the license for,

0:53:19.000 --> 0:53:22.600
<v Speaker 2>and there's a journalist is asking to speak to you,

0:53:22.640 --> 0:53:25.440
<v Speaker 2>like the next day after you watch it, And I

0:53:25.480 --> 0:53:29.000
<v Speaker 2>was like really, And I was like, Okay, I hope

0:53:29.040 --> 0:53:34.120
<v Speaker 2>this is good. Uh yeah, screaming, crying, throwing up. I

0:53:34.160 --> 0:53:35.879
<v Speaker 2>love it so much. I thought it was so good.

0:53:35.880 --> 0:53:39.000
<v Speaker 2>And I watched a bunch more like I watched that

0:53:39.080 --> 0:53:42.000
<v Speaker 2>whole season and I mean came to tears a little

0:53:42.000 --> 0:53:42.560
<v Speaker 2>bit in there.

0:53:42.719 --> 0:53:45.919
<v Speaker 1>You've had some success in this world, Does that lead

0:53:45.960 --> 0:53:47.120
<v Speaker 1>to more opportunity?

0:53:48.719 --> 0:53:51.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, of course always.

0:53:51.400 --> 0:53:54.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm just you know, well, I mean.

0:53:55.520 --> 0:53:58.960
<v Speaker 2>You mean just for working with people, and yeah.

0:53:59.480 --> 0:54:02.080
<v Speaker 1>You would a couple of things. Now since these are

0:54:02.120 --> 0:54:05.279
<v Speaker 1>successful productions, other people say, I'm a Netflix show, want

0:54:05.360 --> 0:54:06.200
<v Speaker 1>you to write a song?

0:54:08.080 --> 0:54:08.799
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

0:54:08.840 --> 0:54:12.319
<v Speaker 2>That's honestly, that was what I was dreaming of twenty

0:54:12.400 --> 0:54:15.240
<v Speaker 2>years ago, even fifteen years ago. I was just wishing,

0:54:15.920 --> 0:54:20.200
<v Speaker 2>like to get into that world when I started making music,

0:54:20.360 --> 0:54:22.239
<v Speaker 2>Like when I started really getting into music when I

0:54:22.320 --> 0:54:26.319
<v Speaker 2>was my son's age. Actually, I saw the movie Am

0:54:26.440 --> 0:54:30.000
<v Speaker 2>Dais and I was obsessed with Mozart and his genius

0:54:30.040 --> 0:54:33.319
<v Speaker 2>and I wanted to be that whatever that is, and

0:54:33.360 --> 0:54:35.880
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to be a composer on a piano player,

0:54:36.480 --> 0:54:40.439
<v Speaker 2>and I got I got piano lessons like the next year.

0:54:40.440 --> 0:54:42.000
<v Speaker 3>It was a gift from my grandparents. It was a

0:54:42.000 --> 0:54:42.439
<v Speaker 3>big deal.

0:54:43.800 --> 0:54:47.200
<v Speaker 2>And it's funny because like my siblings, like we all

0:54:47.560 --> 0:54:51.360
<v Speaker 2>took piano lessons. I'm the oldest. But it was different

0:54:51.719 --> 0:54:53.640
<v Speaker 2>for all of them than it was for me because

0:54:53.760 --> 0:54:56.359
<v Speaker 2>I begged for it. I cried for it. I wanted

0:54:56.360 --> 0:54:59.520
<v Speaker 2>it so bad and it wasn't a given. It was like, please,

0:54:59.520 --> 0:55:01.319
<v Speaker 2>how do we make it work? I really I need this.

0:55:01.360 --> 0:55:02.440
<v Speaker 2>I know this is what I want to do with

0:55:02.440 --> 0:55:04.640
<v Speaker 2>my life kind of thing. When I was like ten

0:55:05.400 --> 0:55:09.560
<v Speaker 2>and having you know, okay, you got them, you better

0:55:09.560 --> 0:55:12.920
<v Speaker 2>take this seriously. I really did, like I loved it.

0:55:13.239 --> 0:55:15.359
<v Speaker 2>And then you know, my parents are like, oh my gosh,

0:55:15.400 --> 0:55:17.480
<v Speaker 2>this is great. Everybody's going to take piano and we're

0:55:17.480 --> 0:55:21.759
<v Speaker 2>all musically inclined. We all played piano, wheel sing for

0:55:21.800 --> 0:55:24.000
<v Speaker 2>everybody else was like work kind of a little bit more.

0:55:24.480 --> 0:55:26.239
<v Speaker 2>Not that I didn't treat you know, some of the

0:55:26.280 --> 0:55:30.680
<v Speaker 2>assignments that way and most exhausting, but it's different when

0:55:30.719 --> 0:55:33.719
<v Speaker 2>you like are dying to do it, you know.

0:55:33.840 --> 0:55:38.239
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I took piano lessons. Everybody took piano lessons. In

0:55:38.280 --> 0:55:43.320
<v Speaker 1>my family, we didn't want to practice. So you're taking

0:55:43.360 --> 0:55:45.239
<v Speaker 1>piano lessons, are you practicing?

0:55:46.760 --> 0:55:49.760
<v Speaker 2>I started off taking that very seriously and being excited

0:55:49.800 --> 0:55:51.440
<v Speaker 2>about practice, And as I got older and got into

0:55:51.480 --> 0:55:56.440
<v Speaker 2>high school, I would neglect practice, but I could kind

0:55:56.440 --> 0:55:57.920
<v Speaker 2>of get away with it because I have a good

0:55:57.960 --> 0:56:00.160
<v Speaker 2>year and I could hear what it was supposed to

0:56:00.160 --> 0:56:02.400
<v Speaker 2>be and figure it out without really doing all the work.

0:56:02.880 --> 0:56:05.400
<v Speaker 2>So I would sort of cheat, which was bad. And

0:56:05.440 --> 0:56:07.800
<v Speaker 2>my teacher was an amazing piano player at concert pianist,

0:56:07.800 --> 0:56:10.200
<v Speaker 2>and she could tell, so I kind of get in trouble.

0:56:10.200 --> 0:56:11.640
<v Speaker 2>She'd be like, yeah, you're doing that right, but that's

0:56:11.680 --> 0:56:14.160
<v Speaker 2>not what it says. I'm like, what it's like, Yeah,

0:56:14.200 --> 0:56:15.759
<v Speaker 2>that's what it sounds like when that one guy did it.

0:56:15.760 --> 0:56:16.439
<v Speaker 2>I know what you're doing.

0:56:18.760 --> 0:56:21.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, at this lead day, can you still read?

0:56:23.360 --> 0:56:26.160
<v Speaker 2>I can? But I mean I'm out of practice real bad.

0:56:26.600 --> 0:56:29.040
<v Speaker 2>I've got cheat music in there, songs that I like,

0:56:29.120 --> 0:56:31.080
<v Speaker 2>and I'm like, I'm going to learn, like last Christmas,

0:56:31.120 --> 0:56:34.319
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to learn this song, and I absolutely have

0:56:34.400 --> 0:56:38.280
<v Speaker 2>not finished that song. So it's hard, you know, you start,

0:56:38.440 --> 0:56:40.439
<v Speaker 2>you get to where like I can just play now,

0:56:40.719 --> 0:56:42.960
<v Speaker 2>like I can hear something in my head and make

0:56:43.000 --> 0:56:44.839
<v Speaker 2>it come true in a minute.

0:56:45.080 --> 0:56:45.640
<v Speaker 3>Once you have.

0:56:45.640 --> 0:56:48.520
<v Speaker 2>That, it's hard to just sit there and force yourself

0:56:48.520 --> 0:56:50.480
<v Speaker 2>to like read in another language.

0:56:51.600 --> 0:56:52.560
<v Speaker 3>It takes discipline.

0:56:53.000 --> 0:56:55.480
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you see on the day as you're inspired to

0:56:55.480 --> 0:57:00.279
<v Speaker 1>take piano lessons, are you listening to music at that point?

0:57:00.360 --> 0:57:01.600
<v Speaker 1>Is there music in the home?

0:57:02.320 --> 0:57:07.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh? Yeah, my dad. My dad's almost plays everything, but

0:57:08.320 --> 0:57:11.640
<v Speaker 2>was a DJ and program director all growing up, So

0:57:11.840 --> 0:57:14.120
<v Speaker 2>I grew up around the radio station and a lot

0:57:14.120 --> 0:57:17.400
<v Speaker 2>of he worked at all different formats, but kind of

0:57:17.440 --> 0:57:20.680
<v Speaker 2>like classics, oldies, that sort of thing was a lot

0:57:20.760 --> 0:57:22.480
<v Speaker 2>of my growing up, the sort of music that he

0:57:22.640 --> 0:57:24.840
<v Speaker 2>was knew about and was playing on the air and

0:57:25.240 --> 0:57:29.240
<v Speaker 2>was the guy about. So I definitely just got a basic,

0:57:29.360 --> 0:57:34.360
<v Speaker 2>like especially rock like music education from Neil Young the

0:57:34.360 --> 0:57:38.320
<v Speaker 2>Beatles to honestly like four Tops and Temptations and you

0:57:38.360 --> 0:57:41.000
<v Speaker 2>know Stevie Wonder and Marvin get just all kinds of

0:57:41.080 --> 0:57:43.800
<v Speaker 2>music in the house. So that's the kind of music

0:57:43.840 --> 0:57:48.200
<v Speaker 2>that I was exposed to first, just like great classic music,

0:57:49.160 --> 0:57:53.560
<v Speaker 2>but then the dark drama of like Mosa that was

0:57:53.600 --> 0:57:55.880
<v Speaker 2>what was different for me when I hit that age.

0:57:55.640 --> 0:57:57.040
<v Speaker 3>Where you're just starting to have all those.

0:57:56.880 --> 0:58:01.280
<v Speaker 2>Like feelings and emotions and then this dramatic like classical

0:58:01.360 --> 0:58:02.960
<v Speaker 2>music hit me in a way that was like, oh,

0:58:03.000 --> 0:58:05.200
<v Speaker 2>this is what this is me, this is deep, you know.

0:58:06.400 --> 0:58:10.080
<v Speaker 1>So then what we I mean, Mozart's not new, So

0:58:10.120 --> 0:58:13.280
<v Speaker 1>what new recordings or you know, contemporary recordings. Did you

0:58:13.320 --> 0:58:14.520
<v Speaker 1>then start to listen.

0:58:14.280 --> 0:58:19.320
<v Speaker 2>To It's it's it's all over the place. It's so

0:58:19.720 --> 0:58:22.600
<v Speaker 2>mixed up together because it was like classical hit And

0:58:22.640 --> 0:58:24.680
<v Speaker 2>then I start what I really got into wasn't listening

0:58:24.680 --> 0:58:27.120
<v Speaker 2>to old classical music as much as it was film scores.

0:58:27.480 --> 0:58:31.880
<v Speaker 2>I was really really into the the emotions of film.

0:58:32.040 --> 0:58:33.800
<v Speaker 2>So I'm trying to think of some of the first

0:58:34.080 --> 0:58:35.520
<v Speaker 2>movies that I saw that was like, oh my god,

0:58:35.520 --> 0:58:37.040
<v Speaker 2>oh my god, this is a funny one. This is

0:58:37.080 --> 0:58:40.000
<v Speaker 2>different because it's soundtrack. But The Bodyguard was like the

0:58:40.040 --> 0:58:41.640
<v Speaker 2>first R rated movie I got to see. If you

0:58:41.640 --> 0:58:44.320
<v Speaker 2>get to see The Bodyguard because you love music, and

0:58:45.200 --> 0:58:48.320
<v Speaker 2>that was big and inspiring. But like I would listen

0:58:48.320 --> 0:58:51.720
<v Speaker 2>to film scores like like the Batman score, like the

0:58:52.360 --> 0:58:55.960
<v Speaker 2>Danny Elfman Batman score, or like like the Lion King,

0:58:56.440 --> 0:59:00.720
<v Speaker 2>like the cartoon, like just music in general. I don't know.

0:59:00.880 --> 0:59:02.680
<v Speaker 3>I was kind of a nerd to listen to weird music.

0:59:02.720 --> 0:59:05.360
<v Speaker 2>But also at the same time, it was like grunge

0:59:05.840 --> 0:59:08.360
<v Speaker 2>started happening a couple of years later for me, and

0:59:08.400 --> 0:59:11.600
<v Speaker 2>I heard I Forget What I can't say the first song.

0:59:11.720 --> 0:59:15.320
<v Speaker 2>I like Nirvana and Soundgarden, and then Smashing Pumpkins and

0:59:15.360 --> 0:59:18.920
<v Speaker 2>Garbage and then b York. All these really interesting alternative

0:59:19.000 --> 0:59:23.560
<v Speaker 2>artists really started happening, and that opened my mind even

0:59:23.600 --> 0:59:26.520
<v Speaker 2>wider to like wanting it all at the same time together.

0:59:27.280 --> 0:59:30.480
<v Speaker 2>So I think that that's why the band started becoming

0:59:30.520 --> 0:59:32.400
<v Speaker 2>a thing of like, oh, maybe I'm maybe I'm the singer,

0:59:32.400 --> 0:59:33.240
<v Speaker 2>maybe I'm in a band.

0:59:34.000 --> 0:59:38.520
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you're talking about early nineties grunge. You're going on

0:59:38.600 --> 0:59:42.040
<v Speaker 1>tour in Australia with Metallica. That's a couple of steps

0:59:42.040 --> 0:59:43.040
<v Speaker 1>beyond grunge.

0:59:43.840 --> 0:59:48.680
<v Speaker 2>Mm hm. I liked Metallica then, too, Well, that's you know,

0:59:48.760 --> 0:59:52.200
<v Speaker 2>that's a whole Yeah, ruled there without mentioning every band

0:59:52.240 --> 0:59:52.840
<v Speaker 2>in that world.

0:59:52.920 --> 0:59:53.640
<v Speaker 3>That's so true.

0:59:54.240 --> 0:59:56.080
<v Speaker 1>Is that music say, oh yeah, I want to listen

0:59:56.120 --> 0:59:58.360
<v Speaker 1>to that music at the time.

0:59:58.440 --> 1:00:02.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure, Metallica was probably, I want to say,

1:00:02.800 --> 1:00:05.040
<v Speaker 2>the first like heavy band that I that I was

1:00:05.080 --> 1:00:09.560
<v Speaker 2>really into. But my heart is more that sound garden world.

1:00:10.080 --> 1:00:12.560
<v Speaker 2>That's dark and heavy to me big time. I mean,

1:00:12.640 --> 1:00:14.880
<v Speaker 2>I think that there's different ways to look at like

1:00:14.920 --> 1:00:18.680
<v Speaker 2>what's metal or what's heavy, and for me that there

1:00:18.720 --> 1:00:22.919
<v Speaker 2>was a big crossover in the darkness of the alternative

1:00:22.960 --> 1:00:26.280
<v Speaker 2>scene in the nineties, like the Hardsheet Box is super dark.

1:00:27.680 --> 1:00:29.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, there's there's a lot of music from

1:00:29.920 --> 1:00:32.120
<v Speaker 2>back then that I feel like the whole the time

1:00:32.240 --> 1:00:37.440
<v Speaker 2>was dark somehow musically and long, like long journeys through places.

1:00:37.720 --> 1:00:40.440
<v Speaker 2>But for some reason that really resonated with me.

1:00:41.040 --> 1:00:45.400
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you're talking about the darkness in music. Is that

1:00:45.440 --> 1:00:50.520
<v Speaker 1>an element of your life today? Not the music, the darkness.

1:00:51.240 --> 1:00:53.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean I think that's part that's a part

1:00:53.200 --> 1:00:53.800
<v Speaker 2>of the world.

1:00:54.640 --> 1:00:58.720
<v Speaker 1>Wait wait, wait, wait wait wait, we can talk about politics.

1:00:58.760 --> 1:01:02.720
<v Speaker 1>One might be disillusion with politics, well, might be disillusion

1:01:02.760 --> 1:01:07.480
<v Speaker 1>with their own social situation, their own business situation. Then

1:01:07.520 --> 1:01:10.360
<v Speaker 1>there are other people you talk about who are introverted,

1:01:10.360 --> 1:01:14.840
<v Speaker 1>who are also introspective, and they're in touch. I can't

1:01:14.840 --> 1:01:17.680
<v Speaker 1>believe I'm verbalizing it this way. They're in touch with

1:01:17.760 --> 1:01:20.920
<v Speaker 1>the darkness. Does that start to resonate with you and go, No,

1:01:21.000 --> 1:01:21.720
<v Speaker 1>that doesn't fit.

1:01:22.880 --> 1:01:27.160
<v Speaker 2>No, it does, of course it does. I've lost big

1:01:27.200 --> 1:01:29.959
<v Speaker 2>in my life. I've lost people that are very close

1:01:29.960 --> 1:01:31.400
<v Speaker 2>to me that I love. I lost my little sister

1:01:31.440 --> 1:01:37.280
<v Speaker 2>and I lost my brother, and I think that that happening.

1:01:37.480 --> 1:01:40.120
<v Speaker 2>You know, I was six years old and my sister

1:01:40.160 --> 1:01:45.240
<v Speaker 2>passed away. That touched me in a way that big

1:01:45.280 --> 1:01:48.640
<v Speaker 2>time shaped the way that my mind works and the

1:01:48.680 --> 1:01:52.880
<v Speaker 2>way that I look in, you know, look in and

1:01:52.920 --> 1:01:53.520
<v Speaker 2>look out.

1:01:54.760 --> 1:01:58.120
<v Speaker 1>That happens these tragedies. How do you metabolize that and

1:01:58.160 --> 1:01:59.840
<v Speaker 1>get past it to the degree you ever do.

1:02:03.040 --> 1:02:03.920
<v Speaker 3>That?

1:02:03.920 --> 1:02:06.760
<v Speaker 2>That is why, that is how this started. I feel

1:02:06.760 --> 1:02:12.960
<v Speaker 2>like it started from needing an outlet, Like I think

1:02:13.000 --> 1:02:16.400
<v Speaker 2>that's why hearing that music, you know, hearing Mozart and

1:02:16.440 --> 1:02:17.800
<v Speaker 2>hearing the drama and.

1:02:17.720 --> 1:02:20.320
<v Speaker 3>That darkness that was it was more adult.

1:02:20.480 --> 1:02:22.360
<v Speaker 2>You know. There was something about that that touched me

1:02:22.360 --> 1:02:24.960
<v Speaker 2>in a way that I couldn't describe and I wanted

1:02:24.960 --> 1:02:28.920
<v Speaker 2>to tap into that. And I think before it was

1:02:28.960 --> 1:02:31.240
<v Speaker 2>even that, before it was music, it was poetry. It

1:02:31.280 --> 1:02:35.880
<v Speaker 2>was just writing in my journal. From very young, I

1:02:36.000 --> 1:02:40.840
<v Speaker 2>always was just like writing my feelings down and trying

1:02:40.880 --> 1:02:43.400
<v Speaker 2>to I don't know, like making them, not just writing

1:02:43.440 --> 1:02:47.680
<v Speaker 2>in my diary, but like kind of writing poetry, like

1:02:47.880 --> 1:02:51.120
<v Speaker 2>writing prose because it felt good. It felt like it

1:02:51.480 --> 1:02:56.919
<v Speaker 2>turned something that I couldn't explain into something that said

1:02:56.960 --> 1:02:58.880
<v Speaker 2>what I wanted to say that I couldn't say, or

1:02:58.920 --> 1:03:02.040
<v Speaker 2>that or that was beautif like taking something really really

1:03:02.080 --> 1:03:04.240
<v Speaker 2>painful or really dark and making it into oh that

1:03:04.280 --> 1:03:08.920
<v Speaker 2>could that's not worthless. It turned into something beautiful. At

1:03:09.000 --> 1:03:11.440
<v Speaker 2>least there's this little thing that I made that's beautiful

1:03:11.640 --> 1:03:14.040
<v Speaker 2>that couldn't have existed if I didn't feel those feelings.

1:03:15.920 --> 1:03:21.040
<v Speaker 1>Do you feel you're misunderstood as a star artist? Evan

1:03:21.200 --> 1:03:25.040
<v Speaker 1>Essence is known for a certain style of music. Do

1:03:25.120 --> 1:03:27.840
<v Speaker 1>you feel like, oh, yeah, I have a tory aimed

1:03:27.880 --> 1:03:32.920
<v Speaker 1>as solo piano thing more demure and reserved, or no,

1:03:33.120 --> 1:03:35.040
<v Speaker 1>this is what I do, this is who I am.

1:03:36.320 --> 1:03:40.760
<v Speaker 2>I it's a great question because I have gone through

1:03:40.920 --> 1:03:43.640
<v Speaker 2>phases in my life where I felt very like I

1:03:43.720 --> 1:03:47.640
<v Speaker 2>needed to search and like maybe this didn't sum it up,

1:03:48.120 --> 1:03:50.440
<v Speaker 2>Like maybe evan Essence was a piece of something. And

1:03:51.280 --> 1:03:54.240
<v Speaker 2>I really feel home in the music that I'm making

1:03:54.240 --> 1:03:56.280
<v Speaker 2>at this point. I feel like I know who I am.

1:03:56.840 --> 1:04:00.720
<v Speaker 2>But another reason for the time between albums, another reason

1:04:00.760 --> 1:04:04.440
<v Speaker 2>for that that time of searching and introspection is allowing

1:04:04.960 --> 1:04:07.720
<v Speaker 2>it to die in my mind, like I had to

1:04:07.720 --> 1:04:10.040
<v Speaker 2>do that a couple times, like go, Okay, I might

1:04:10.160 --> 1:04:13.280
<v Speaker 2>never do this again, so let's just be me and

1:04:13.320 --> 1:04:16.960
<v Speaker 2>see what that looks and sounds like. And usually when

1:04:17.000 --> 1:04:19.160
<v Speaker 2>I when I'm just sitting around and I want to

1:04:19.160 --> 1:04:20.920
<v Speaker 2>make music, I'm not thinking, Okay, this is going to

1:04:20.960 --> 1:04:22.960
<v Speaker 2>be for Evanescence or this is going to be for

1:04:23.640 --> 1:04:27.800
<v Speaker 2>It's just I just let it happen and don't give

1:04:27.840 --> 1:04:31.680
<v Speaker 2>it those parameters. That's how I really enjoy making music.

1:04:31.720 --> 1:04:35.200
<v Speaker 2>And what's a beautiful thing about that is that it

1:04:35.200 --> 1:04:38.360
<v Speaker 2>it has, this is what it sounds like, this is

1:04:38.400 --> 1:04:40.880
<v Speaker 2>what it sounds like. And Evanescence is a collaboration. It's

1:04:40.920 --> 1:04:45.480
<v Speaker 2>always been that, but but it's that is really that

1:04:45.600 --> 1:04:50.080
<v Speaker 2>is really me. So I don't because of that, I

1:04:50.120 --> 1:04:54.240
<v Speaker 2>am here this many years later and feel ultimate satisfaction

1:04:55.200 --> 1:04:57.520
<v Speaker 2>when we play our music, and we put our music

1:04:57.640 --> 1:05:00.640
<v Speaker 2>because it is one from the heart and write on

1:05:00.680 --> 1:05:05.320
<v Speaker 2>the money of who I feel that I am, you know,

1:05:06.840 --> 1:05:09.920
<v Speaker 2>and that is varied. I feel like our band honestly,

1:05:09.960 --> 1:05:11.920
<v Speaker 2>Like if you listen to it all, it's kind of

1:05:12.120 --> 1:05:14.600
<v Speaker 2>it's not all over the place, but it's a pretty

1:05:14.600 --> 1:05:16.840
<v Speaker 2>broad spectrum of stuff.

1:05:17.280 --> 1:05:21.440
<v Speaker 1>Let's talk about the lyrics. Twenty years on, do you

1:05:21.800 --> 1:05:26.960
<v Speaker 1>feel a need to convey your inner thoughts to the

1:05:27.040 --> 1:05:28.760
<v Speaker 1>degree you did previously?

1:05:31.440 --> 1:05:34.080
<v Speaker 2>It feels good to do. The more you can say,

1:05:34.160 --> 1:05:38.560
<v Speaker 2>the more you can express, Like, the more release you get.

1:05:39.720 --> 1:05:42.040
<v Speaker 2>I mean, and I definitely feel like I'm a lot

1:05:42.080 --> 1:05:47.920
<v Speaker 2>better at putting stuff, putting the depth, you know, putting

1:05:47.920 --> 1:05:52.160
<v Speaker 2>my darkest fears and my deepest feelings into music than

1:05:52.160 --> 1:05:54.840
<v Speaker 2>I am at just saying them in a conversation.

1:05:55.880 --> 1:05:56.600
<v Speaker 3>That's hard.

1:05:57.000 --> 1:06:00.400
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you have this makeup artist, very good friend of yours,

1:06:01.200 --> 1:06:05.800
<v Speaker 1>but forget the fans. That's something different. Generally speaking, are

1:06:05.800 --> 1:06:08.919
<v Speaker 1>you guarded or are you waiting to feel the right

1:06:09.040 --> 1:06:11.520
<v Speaker 1>vibe that you say what you really think?

1:06:15.360 --> 1:06:18.080
<v Speaker 2>I guess that depends. It just depends on the situation.

1:06:18.440 --> 1:06:20.360
<v Speaker 2>I can definitely be a person who's just like just

1:06:20.440 --> 1:06:22.760
<v Speaker 2>totally stick my foot in my mouth, like I'll just

1:06:22.800 --> 1:06:24.160
<v Speaker 2>blurt stuff out and be like, why did I say

1:06:24.160 --> 1:06:24.640
<v Speaker 2>that out loud?

1:06:26.840 --> 1:06:29.400
<v Speaker 1>Okay, going back to career stuff, how do you end

1:06:29.520 --> 1:06:31.720
<v Speaker 1>up on wind Up Records?

1:06:33.000 --> 1:06:36.240
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, kind of like I was saying before,

1:06:36.040 --> 1:06:38.720
<v Speaker 2>we weren't really a band at the time. We were like,

1:06:38.840 --> 1:06:43.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, songwriters, Like we were just creating music and

1:06:43.760 --> 1:06:45.920
<v Speaker 2>recording it and making demos and you know, pulling together

1:06:46.240 --> 1:06:49.919
<v Speaker 2>people you know locally from bands, you know, to put

1:06:49.920 --> 1:06:53.440
<v Speaker 2>on a show once in a while. And when what

1:06:53.560 --> 1:06:57.280
<v Speaker 2>happened with wind Up is I'm trying to think how

1:06:57.320 --> 1:07:01.280
<v Speaker 2>old I must have been. We signed when I was nineteen,

1:07:01.840 --> 1:07:05.520
<v Speaker 2>so I guess I was probably eighteen. And we had

1:07:05.800 --> 1:07:08.680
<v Speaker 2>taken our demos, which people talk about as if it's

1:07:08.680 --> 1:07:11.920
<v Speaker 2>an album. It's really not. But we put our demos

1:07:11.920 --> 1:07:16.440
<v Speaker 2>into like a homemade album. It's called Origin, and we

1:07:16.520 --> 1:07:18.880
<v Speaker 2>had I think we spent five hundred dollars to go

1:07:18.920 --> 1:07:21.840
<v Speaker 2>to Memphis and have it mastered, so like it sounded

1:07:21.840 --> 1:07:25.120
<v Speaker 2>really good. And while we were there, you know, working

1:07:25.120 --> 1:07:28.480
<v Speaker 2>with the guy who was mastering it for us, Pete Matthews,

1:07:29.920 --> 1:07:32.160
<v Speaker 2>was down the hall. It was really really nice and

1:07:32.200 --> 1:07:34.000
<v Speaker 2>like heard it through the door and was like, what

1:07:34.040 --> 1:07:36.200
<v Speaker 2>who are you guys? And you know, we told them

1:07:36.160 --> 1:07:37.680
<v Speaker 2>we're just kids and this is our band. He's like, wow,

1:07:37.720 --> 1:07:41.320
<v Speaker 2>that sounds really cool. He's like, I'm going to New

1:07:41.400 --> 1:07:44.360
<v Speaker 2>York to talk to this label about this other band

1:07:44.400 --> 1:07:46.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm dealing with, and do you want me to show

1:07:46.720 --> 1:07:48.120
<v Speaker 2>it to people? I could love to show that around.

1:07:48.120 --> 1:07:49.560
<v Speaker 2>Like he sat and listened to everything we were doing

1:07:49.600 --> 1:07:51.200
<v Speaker 2>and thought it was cool, and we're like, oh, yeah, cool,

1:07:51.240 --> 1:07:54.280
<v Speaker 2>yeah I do that. So it was really literally like

1:07:54.280 --> 1:07:56.280
<v Speaker 2>the first people we talked to and what the song

1:07:56.360 --> 1:07:59.920
<v Speaker 2>that got us signed was my Immortal because they just

1:08:00.600 --> 1:08:02.840
<v Speaker 2>something about that song, just love that song.

1:08:02.960 --> 1:08:03.560
<v Speaker 3>That was the thing.

1:08:04.600 --> 1:08:05.720
<v Speaker 2>And it all kind of.

1:08:06.040 --> 1:08:06.960
<v Speaker 3>Happens sort of fast.

1:08:07.000 --> 1:08:08.920
<v Speaker 2>We we you know, we knew that the right thing

1:08:08.960 --> 1:08:12.920
<v Speaker 2>to do is like to shop around, but honestly, like

1:08:13.040 --> 1:08:16.559
<v Speaker 2>all the other labels wanted like a showcase and for

1:08:16.640 --> 1:08:18.120
<v Speaker 2>us to come in and play it live and see

1:08:18.120 --> 1:08:20.679
<v Speaker 2>how and that's just not that wasn't we weren't there.

1:08:21.280 --> 1:08:24.479
<v Speaker 2>That's just not really who we were. So it was

1:08:24.600 --> 1:08:26.200
<v Speaker 2>just one of those things like look this this label's

1:08:26.240 --> 1:08:29.559
<v Speaker 2>right here right now. They've got a success story. They're

1:08:29.600 --> 1:08:31.280
<v Speaker 2>passionate about it. Why don't we just do this? So

1:08:31.800 --> 1:08:33.439
<v Speaker 2>you know, I don't know, we're kids. We signed a

1:08:33.439 --> 1:08:33.880
<v Speaker 2>record deal.

1:08:34.200 --> 1:08:38.840
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you're kids. You know this is sort of well

1:08:38.880 --> 1:08:41.840
<v Speaker 1>known stuff. There's Don Passman book, et cetera. Are you

1:08:41.960 --> 1:08:45.200
<v Speaker 1>sharp enough to know we should get a music business lawyer,

1:08:45.320 --> 1:08:48.759
<v Speaker 1>we should get a manager, or you basically walk into

1:08:48.800 --> 1:08:51.519
<v Speaker 1>the quagmiring it rape? Shall we say?

1:08:52.880 --> 1:08:53.000
<v Speaker 2>Uh?

1:08:54.000 --> 1:08:54.479
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

1:08:54.560 --> 1:08:56.200
<v Speaker 2>I feel like we kind of knew the roles and

1:08:56.360 --> 1:08:59.240
<v Speaker 2>just didn't do what we were supposed to do. We

1:08:59.240 --> 1:09:03.759
<v Speaker 2>we got a lawyer, but I mean it was definitely

1:09:03.800 --> 1:09:06.080
<v Speaker 2>like what do you want me to say? Like this

1:09:06.160 --> 1:09:08.240
<v Speaker 2>is this is a deal that you know, this is

1:09:08.479 --> 1:09:12.160
<v Speaker 2>this is kind of you're committing your entire career here,

1:09:12.320 --> 1:09:13.120
<v Speaker 2>that's what this is.

1:09:13.240 --> 1:09:15.719
<v Speaker 3>But you also have no leverage.

1:09:16.080 --> 1:09:18.200
<v Speaker 2>It's not like you're going in there saying, oh, well

1:09:18.240 --> 1:09:20.840
<v Speaker 2>we've already succeeded this and that you have nothing. So

1:09:20.920 --> 1:09:22.760
<v Speaker 2>if you want to go give it a shot, you know,

1:09:22.840 --> 1:09:24.599
<v Speaker 2>give it a shot. The worst thing that can happen

1:09:24.640 --> 1:09:28.200
<v Speaker 2>is you become really successful and then you're in trouble.

1:09:30.920 --> 1:09:33.360
<v Speaker 3>But I mean, we made it out alive, like it.

1:09:34.520 --> 1:09:38.840
<v Speaker 2>I will say this, like there there were definitely struggles

1:09:38.920 --> 1:09:44.040
<v Speaker 2>with that relationship. That was difficult. But looking back, there

1:09:44.040 --> 1:09:47.439
<v Speaker 2>are things that they did for us that I see

1:09:47.479 --> 1:09:53.439
<v Speaker 2>now as really valuable and rare, which was they made us.

1:09:53.479 --> 1:09:55.080
<v Speaker 2>First of all, they made us. We thought we were done,

1:09:55.120 --> 1:09:56.439
<v Speaker 2>and they're like, no, no, no, you're gonna have to like

1:09:56.880 --> 1:10:01.840
<v Speaker 2>write more songs, like do your thing. They sent us

1:10:01.840 --> 1:10:04.680
<v Speaker 2>to la and put us in the oak Woods, and

1:10:04.720 --> 1:10:08.639
<v Speaker 2>we're like, you're gonna, you know, like write more songs,

1:10:08.840 --> 1:10:11.479
<v Speaker 2>you know, and also, you know, we work with this

1:10:11.560 --> 1:10:14.960
<v Speaker 2>producer guy. Maybe something cool come out of that, uh,

1:10:15.120 --> 1:10:18.040
<v Speaker 2>like gave us. We didn't we didn't have much money

1:10:18.080 --> 1:10:19.960
<v Speaker 2>to live off of, but like everything was kind of

1:10:19.960 --> 1:10:20.439
<v Speaker 2>taken care of.

1:10:20.479 --> 1:10:21.679
<v Speaker 3>It was like you have a gym membership.

1:10:22.240 --> 1:10:26.360
<v Speaker 2>And they even got me like acting classes because it

1:10:26.439 --> 1:10:31.040
<v Speaker 2>was super shy. It was every time I'd performed live before,

1:10:32.200 --> 1:10:34.040
<v Speaker 2>I just had to keep my eyes closed, like the

1:10:34.200 --> 1:10:36.160
<v Speaker 2>entire set, like just stand there with my eyes shut

1:10:36.200 --> 1:10:39.519
<v Speaker 2>and couldn't talk to the crowd. And what they did

1:10:39.600 --> 1:10:42.200
<v Speaker 2>was they they put me in with this guy. It

1:10:42.240 --> 1:10:45.040
<v Speaker 2>was so awesome actually lose. I remember when we broke through,

1:10:45.320 --> 1:10:47.400
<v Speaker 2>I would bring my boombox. He taught an acting class

1:10:47.439 --> 1:10:49.519
<v Speaker 2>and at the end of the class, like he let

1:10:49.520 --> 1:10:51.960
<v Speaker 2>me sit in if I wanted to. Everyone would leave

1:10:52.360 --> 1:10:55.120
<v Speaker 2>and I'd have my stereo with our songs that we

1:10:55.120 --> 1:10:58.479
<v Speaker 2>were working on, and he would sit in an empty

1:10:58.680 --> 1:11:00.839
<v Speaker 2>little theater and I I would be on the stage

1:11:00.920 --> 1:11:04.959
<v Speaker 2>and I would have to just cringingly sing my songs,

1:11:05.400 --> 1:11:08.519
<v Speaker 2>looking at him, like just sing and do my thing

1:11:08.560 --> 1:11:12.200
<v Speaker 2>and rock out and not have my eyes closed and

1:11:12.840 --> 1:11:13.639
<v Speaker 2>try to get comfortable.

1:11:13.640 --> 1:11:14.439
<v Speaker 3>It was super awkward.

1:11:14.840 --> 1:11:17.400
<v Speaker 2>And then one day I remember just kind of I

1:11:17.439 --> 1:11:19.360
<v Speaker 2>don't know, something clicked where I was like just I

1:11:19.400 --> 1:11:23.040
<v Speaker 2>stopped caring what he was thinking, and he saw it

1:11:23.080 --> 1:11:24.080
<v Speaker 2>and he was like, there, you did it.

1:11:24.320 --> 1:11:25.439
<v Speaker 3>That's it, You're good.

1:11:26.200 --> 1:11:28.120
<v Speaker 2>And I was like we literally had I don't know,

1:11:28.120 --> 1:11:31.479
<v Speaker 2>maybe seven seven sessions together and he just like helped

1:11:31.520 --> 1:11:33.280
<v Speaker 2>me get to a place where I felt more comfortable.

1:11:33.280 --> 1:11:36.840
<v Speaker 2>That's so valuable. That is something that I needed that

1:11:37.080 --> 1:11:41.599
<v Speaker 2>I couldn't see that I needed. So I'm not sitting

1:11:41.640 --> 1:11:43.479
<v Speaker 2>here to say how wonderful it all was. It was

1:11:43.520 --> 1:11:45.760
<v Speaker 2>a real struggle, and the biggest thing we struggled about

1:11:45.760 --> 1:11:48.519
<v Speaker 2>was creative control. Because I knew what I wanted, I

1:11:48.600 --> 1:11:50.679
<v Speaker 2>knew what I wanted it to look like. I knew

1:11:50.720 --> 1:11:54.120
<v Speaker 2>the words I wanted to sing. I needed to develop

1:11:54.280 --> 1:11:58.960
<v Speaker 2>like my identity, and it was a struggle, not just

1:11:59.000 --> 1:12:01.200
<v Speaker 2>for the first album, but after we had one Grammy's

1:12:01.240 --> 1:12:05.760
<v Speaker 2>and proven so much. I constantly had to fight just

1:12:05.800 --> 1:12:14.880
<v Speaker 2>to prove that I could do what I had already done.

1:12:16.479 --> 1:12:21.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you're talking about performing, but having this success, did

1:12:21.000 --> 1:12:25.080
<v Speaker 1>you have or still have any imposter syndrome? Oh?

1:12:25.200 --> 1:12:27.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, all the time? Yeah for sure.

1:12:28.760 --> 1:12:32.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I don't know how to how to elaborate

1:12:32.200 --> 1:12:34.360
<v Speaker 2>on that, but for sure, I definitely goes.

1:12:34.400 --> 1:12:37.360
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's go back. You hear your father's in music,

1:12:37.479 --> 1:12:41.360
<v Speaker 1>You're exposed to all this music, you go to si Ahmedaish.

1:12:41.439 --> 1:12:44.320
<v Speaker 1>At what point do you say, this is what I

1:12:44.360 --> 1:12:45.360
<v Speaker 1>want to do for a living.

1:12:48.280 --> 1:12:49.720
<v Speaker 3>I felt like that struck me back then.

1:12:50.479 --> 1:12:54.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean, but learning what that's what I want to

1:12:54.760 --> 1:12:57.800
<v Speaker 2>do for a living was grew and changed over time

1:12:58.080 --> 1:13:00.080
<v Speaker 2>because at first I didn't even think about myself as

1:13:00.080 --> 1:13:00.439
<v Speaker 2>a singer.

1:13:01.240 --> 1:13:02.080
<v Speaker 3>It wasn't that my.

1:13:02.160 --> 1:13:05.040
<v Speaker 2>Idea was ooh, I want to be the center of attention.

1:13:05.320 --> 1:13:09.680
<v Speaker 2>That that wasn't really me. I wanted to create, I

1:13:09.720 --> 1:13:12.800
<v Speaker 2>wanted to write music. I wanted to make music, and

1:13:12.840 --> 1:13:14.880
<v Speaker 2>I really thought I was going down the road to

1:13:14.880 --> 1:13:17.240
<v Speaker 2>write music for film. So when I went to college

1:13:17.280 --> 1:13:19.360
<v Speaker 2>for a hot minute right before you know, we signed

1:13:19.360 --> 1:13:23.600
<v Speaker 2>that deal. It was theory composition because I knew that

1:13:23.680 --> 1:13:25.960
<v Speaker 2>I could play by ear and I knew that I could,

1:13:26.000 --> 1:13:27.519
<v Speaker 2>you know, write a song. But what I wanted to

1:13:27.560 --> 1:13:30.879
<v Speaker 2>get good at was the hard stuff, you know, learning

1:13:31.200 --> 1:13:37.200
<v Speaker 2>the real technicality of music and instrumentation and you know, orchestration. Okay,

1:13:37.400 --> 1:13:39.040
<v Speaker 2>but then you know, like you know, I'm sorry, I

1:13:39.080 --> 1:13:41.920
<v Speaker 2>didn't really finish like I was thinking that. But at

1:13:41.920 --> 1:13:43.840
<v Speaker 2>the same time, like my heart was going towards this

1:13:43.920 --> 1:13:46.519
<v Speaker 2>place of contemporary music that was moving me so much,

1:13:46.800 --> 1:13:48.200
<v Speaker 2>like the sound gardens and the U Yorks and the

1:13:48.200 --> 1:13:49.519
<v Speaker 2>Smashing Pumpkins and the garbages.

1:13:50.320 --> 1:13:55.160
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you're in high school with this, say oh Amy, Yeah, yeah,

1:13:55.240 --> 1:13:57.439
<v Speaker 1>she's that girl. She's the one who plays the piano.

1:13:57.560 --> 1:14:00.439
<v Speaker 1>She's one into music or was it a more private thing?

1:14:01.960 --> 1:14:06.000
<v Speaker 2>They those who knew me at all, like did know that.

1:14:07.080 --> 1:14:10.840
<v Speaker 2>But it's not like I was famous at school. I

1:14:10.840 --> 1:14:13.280
<v Speaker 2>was just I was just an art kid. I was

1:14:13.360 --> 1:14:14.080
<v Speaker 2>choir president.

1:14:14.720 --> 1:14:20.040
<v Speaker 1>Okay. So all these years later, with all this great success,

1:14:20.840 --> 1:14:23.720
<v Speaker 1>have you gone to any reunions? Have you heard from

1:14:23.760 --> 1:14:24.639
<v Speaker 1>any of these people.

1:14:25.600 --> 1:14:27.600
<v Speaker 2>Uh, oh, I've heard from them. Yeah, I've seen some

1:14:27.640 --> 1:14:30.439
<v Speaker 2>of them since. Yeah, I actually have one, my bestie

1:14:30.520 --> 1:14:32.120
<v Speaker 2>from junior high.

1:14:32.240 --> 1:14:34.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm actually talking about the other people. I don't know

1:14:34.880 --> 1:14:37.240
<v Speaker 1>how many people in your high school class, the people

1:14:37.280 --> 1:14:40.960
<v Speaker 1>who gave you a hard time, et cetera. Have they

1:14:41.000 --> 1:14:44.600
<v Speaker 1>come out of the woodwork with different opinions.

1:14:45.760 --> 1:14:48.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I haven't really focused on that too much.

1:14:49.560 --> 1:14:52.280
<v Speaker 2>There definitely were the people, Like you know, I feel

1:14:52.320 --> 1:14:53.000
<v Speaker 2>like I have.

1:14:52.960 --> 1:14:54.160
<v Speaker 3>A different heart about it now.

1:14:54.560 --> 1:14:58.000
<v Speaker 2>When things felt like such a huge deal when you're

1:14:58.000 --> 1:15:00.240
<v Speaker 2>in middle school or high school, they really start to

1:15:00.400 --> 1:15:02.280
<v Speaker 2>not feel like such a big deal. Later it's like, oh,

1:15:02.280 --> 1:15:04.040
<v Speaker 2>we were all just kids. I don't hate you, You're

1:15:04.080 --> 1:15:08.760
<v Speaker 2>just a dumb kid like me. But at the time, yeah, no,

1:15:08.800 --> 1:15:09.640
<v Speaker 2>I don't have that.

1:15:09.840 --> 1:15:12.519
<v Speaker 1>Just to be clear, are you choosing not to go

1:15:12.600 --> 1:15:15.479
<v Speaker 1>to reunion where the stars have not lined up?

1:15:18.400 --> 1:15:22.760
<v Speaker 2>I did hear about the tenure union decide not to go?

1:15:23.600 --> 1:15:28.040
<v Speaker 2>I feel I not for any reason. I just feel awkward.

1:15:28.360 --> 1:15:32.280
<v Speaker 2>I just feel awkward. I feel like, especially if I

1:15:32.600 --> 1:15:35.640
<v Speaker 2>hate feeling like in a situation, people are going to

1:15:35.680 --> 1:15:37.880
<v Speaker 2>think that I think I'm better than everybody or something,

1:15:38.280 --> 1:15:42.520
<v Speaker 2>and I feel so awkward, like walking into that situation.

1:15:43.439 --> 1:15:45.400
<v Speaker 2>I don't know where they're like expecting me to like, hey,

1:15:45.439 --> 1:15:48.360
<v Speaker 2>look at me, I made it, check it out. So

1:15:48.520 --> 1:15:49.840
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, just feels awkward.

1:15:50.680 --> 1:15:54.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay, when you're in high school, to what degree are

1:15:54.760 --> 1:15:56.080
<v Speaker 1>you playing out?

1:15:58.200 --> 1:16:02.640
<v Speaker 2>I think we played like twelve shows ever before we

1:16:02.680 --> 1:16:03.160
<v Speaker 2>got signed.

1:16:04.080 --> 1:16:06.599
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you graduate, you go to college. How long did

1:16:06.640 --> 1:16:08.640
<v Speaker 1>you stay in college?

1:16:09.080 --> 1:16:10.000
<v Speaker 3>One whole semester?

1:16:10.320 --> 1:16:16.120
<v Speaker 1>Okay, just to get the timeline right, Yeah, you make

1:16:16.200 --> 1:16:19.879
<v Speaker 1>this album with this other guy, You go to Memphis

1:16:19.880 --> 1:16:23.400
<v Speaker 1>to get it mastered. When that's happening, are you already

1:16:23.400 --> 1:16:28.440
<v Speaker 1>in college? Oh yeah?

1:16:28.760 --> 1:16:32.280
<v Speaker 2>I why shoot, No, that was before that was still

1:16:32.360 --> 1:16:32.840
<v Speaker 2>high school.

1:16:32.880 --> 1:16:37.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay. From the time you go to Memphis to the

1:16:37.840 --> 1:16:40.640
<v Speaker 1>time you end up in La how much time is that.

1:16:41.640 --> 1:16:46.160
<v Speaker 2>It's a really short amount of time. We were in Memphis,

1:16:47.640 --> 1:16:49.920
<v Speaker 2>Well we went back to that's such a weird it's

1:16:50.080 --> 1:16:52.720
<v Speaker 2>foggy now, Like we went there to do the mastering thing,

1:16:52.720 --> 1:16:53.439
<v Speaker 2>and then we went back.

1:16:53.360 --> 1:16:56.360
<v Speaker 1>Home and then let me let me ask questions a

1:16:56.360 --> 1:16:59.920
<v Speaker 1>different way. From the time wind Up heard it, how

1:17:00.160 --> 1:17:02.120
<v Speaker 1>long until you had signed contracts?

1:17:02.760 --> 1:17:05.560
<v Speaker 3>It was within a year. It was probably it was

1:17:05.600 --> 1:17:06.360
<v Speaker 3>a matter of months.

1:17:06.680 --> 1:17:06.920
<v Speaker 2>I think.

1:17:07.320 --> 1:17:11.719
<v Speaker 1>Okay, did they move you out to Los Angeles before

1:17:11.760 --> 1:17:13.120
<v Speaker 1>the contracts were signed?

1:17:14.720 --> 1:17:17.320
<v Speaker 2>I think that was after after I think it's sign

1:17:17.320 --> 1:17:19.679
<v Speaker 2>It's like, okay, we're putting you in like artists development.

1:17:19.680 --> 1:17:23.280
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Just to go back from the time wind Up

1:17:23.360 --> 1:17:26.680
<v Speaker 1>first heard your music, how long until you end up

1:17:26.680 --> 1:17:30.920
<v Speaker 1>in Los Angeles? A year?

1:17:31.439 --> 1:17:32.679
<v Speaker 2>So, while maybe.

1:17:32.560 --> 1:17:36.880
<v Speaker 1>Didn't happen fast, what's going through your mind during that year?

1:17:38.680 --> 1:17:41.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, just making music, just music. It's like

1:17:41.720 --> 1:17:43.720
<v Speaker 2>always had to be better, make more, and make something wright.

1:17:43.800 --> 1:17:45.600
<v Speaker 1>I mean there are two things. I mean, this is

1:17:45.640 --> 1:17:49.360
<v Speaker 1>a long shot business under the best of circumstances. So

1:17:49.880 --> 1:17:51.920
<v Speaker 1>you could be chomping at the bit saying I'm ready

1:17:51.920 --> 1:17:55.400
<v Speaker 1>to orse he say, is this really gonna happen? Or man,

1:17:55.479 --> 1:17:56.960
<v Speaker 1>I just can't wait anymore.

1:17:57.760 --> 1:18:00.520
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, here is where the word is anxiety

1:18:00.520 --> 1:18:02.280
<v Speaker 2>comes to mind. There was so much pressure all of

1:18:02.320 --> 1:18:04.439
<v Speaker 2>a sudden because there it's like, oh my god, people

1:18:04.479 --> 1:18:07.120
<v Speaker 2>are they're putting money into us, like we have to

1:18:07.160 --> 1:18:10.360
<v Speaker 2>make it, like this has to be good. I left

1:18:10.400 --> 1:18:14.559
<v Speaker 2>school for this, like everything is on the line, and

1:18:15.200 --> 1:18:18.760
<v Speaker 2>it definitely felt like this is my job, like is

1:18:18.840 --> 1:18:20.599
<v Speaker 2>it is not just the thing that you love. It's

1:18:20.640 --> 1:18:23.559
<v Speaker 2>your job to make this work for more than just you,

1:18:23.640 --> 1:18:27.320
<v Speaker 2>like for everybody involved. So pressure, major pressure is what

1:18:27.360 --> 1:18:27.720
<v Speaker 2>it felt like.

1:18:27.880 --> 1:18:30.360
<v Speaker 1>What did your parents say when you said you're dropping

1:18:30.400 --> 1:18:31.160
<v Speaker 1>out of college?

1:18:32.120 --> 1:18:34.160
<v Speaker 3>They were really cool.

1:18:35.040 --> 1:18:36.679
<v Speaker 2>My dad, you know, I said, he was a musician,

1:18:36.680 --> 1:18:39.200
<v Speaker 2>he was in a band before I was born, and

1:18:39.240 --> 1:18:43.400
<v Speaker 2>he knew how rare and special it was that we'd

1:18:43.600 --> 1:18:46.080
<v Speaker 2>even gotten too that place like that they wanted to

1:18:46.080 --> 1:18:49.080
<v Speaker 2>sign us. And it was always with this attitude of like, hey,

1:18:49.160 --> 1:18:53.519
<v Speaker 2>like you know, keep perspective in your heart, of like

1:18:53.600 --> 1:18:56.320
<v Speaker 2>how it's gonna go, you know, like you know, keep

1:18:56.360 --> 1:18:58.679
<v Speaker 2>up your studies. But like, you know, when that happened,

1:18:58.680 --> 1:19:02.880
<v Speaker 2>it was they were one hundred in my corner and cheering, and.

1:19:03.040 --> 1:19:03.680
<v Speaker 3>It was it.

1:19:03.800 --> 1:19:05.519
<v Speaker 2>Really you said it was a long It wasn't. It

1:19:05.560 --> 1:19:07.240
<v Speaker 2>didn't feel like a long time. It felt fast. It

1:19:07.320 --> 1:19:09.839
<v Speaker 2>was like one minute we're in school, the next minute

1:19:10.080 --> 1:19:12.400
<v Speaker 2>we're out of there and working on music, and we

1:19:12.760 --> 1:19:15.479
<v Speaker 2>have a career that we're working on and making, you know, music.

1:19:15.600 --> 1:19:17.879
<v Speaker 2>And then a year and a half after that, Fallen's

1:19:17.960 --> 1:19:20.719
<v Speaker 2>coming out and then the Grammys and my parents were

1:19:21.800 --> 1:19:23.840
<v Speaker 2>they had a big party and we're like watching that.

1:19:23.920 --> 1:19:25.280
<v Speaker 2>I just was looking at the picture of the day.

1:19:25.320 --> 1:19:27.800
<v Speaker 2>It's so cute, Like I had all their friends over

1:19:27.800 --> 1:19:29.559
<v Speaker 2>and they're all sitting living and watching the Grammys. When

1:19:29.560 --> 1:19:29.840
<v Speaker 2>we won.

1:19:31.360 --> 1:19:36.960
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you go to LA, they say they need more songs.

1:19:37.479 --> 1:19:39.600
<v Speaker 1>So what did you end up doing in LA? I

1:19:39.640 --> 1:19:41.840
<v Speaker 1>mean you talk about the acting less, you talk about writing,

1:19:41.840 --> 1:19:45.120
<v Speaker 1>you talked about a producer. But at a more granular level,

1:19:45.160 --> 1:19:47.560
<v Speaker 1>what was actually going on in that period.

1:19:48.240 --> 1:19:51.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, not a lot that I mean that that was

1:19:51.400 --> 1:19:53.400
<v Speaker 2>the focus for me. I don't know.

1:19:55.680 --> 1:19:59.680
<v Speaker 1>You'd cut a record. Did they say we want a

1:20:00.439 --> 1:20:04.759
<v Speaker 1>to those records and we want to remix that record

1:20:04.760 --> 1:20:05.960
<v Speaker 1>and we want new material.

1:20:06.880 --> 1:20:09.400
<v Speaker 2>No, we were writing and demo ing stuff, so we

1:20:09.520 --> 1:20:12.680
<v Speaker 2>had like, uh, it was just our job to like.

1:20:12.640 --> 1:20:14.280
<v Speaker 3>Come up with stuff, and they told until they told

1:20:14.320 --> 1:20:16.120
<v Speaker 3>it was us talk about it.

1:20:16.280 --> 1:20:19.760
<v Speaker 1>Was there a specific producer or multiple producers?

1:20:20.160 --> 1:20:24.120
<v Speaker 2>There were the I hate to mention somebody if I

1:20:24.120 --> 1:20:29.040
<v Speaker 2>can't remember their name. What really happened? What once we

1:20:29.080 --> 1:20:30.240
<v Speaker 2>really started getting.

1:20:31.720 --> 1:20:32.679
<v Speaker 3>There were a couple of people.

1:20:32.760 --> 1:20:36.960
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yes, but I want to say like two because

1:20:36.960 --> 1:20:39.120
<v Speaker 2>when we kind of came time to like, okay, we've

1:20:39.120 --> 1:20:43.920
<v Speaker 2>got you've got the songs, now you know it. We

1:20:43.960 --> 1:20:46.240
<v Speaker 2>met with Dave Fortman because their their thought was Jay

1:20:46.280 --> 1:20:49.080
<v Speaker 2>Bongerner and Dave Portman, who is formerly an ugly kid

1:20:49.160 --> 1:20:51.840
<v Speaker 2>Joe and then became an awesome producer. He was just

1:20:51.880 --> 1:20:54.080
<v Speaker 2>kind of starting out his producer career as well. He

1:20:54.160 --> 1:20:57.120
<v Speaker 2>was like under Jay's wing, and uh, I think it

1:20:57.120 --> 1:20:58.720
<v Speaker 2>was the kind of thing where Jay wasn't available and

1:20:58.880 --> 1:21:00.680
<v Speaker 2>and Dave was. And we met with Jay, and we

1:21:00.800 --> 1:21:03.320
<v Speaker 2>really really I mean with Dave, We really really liked

1:21:03.360 --> 1:21:03.960
<v Speaker 2>him a lot.

1:21:04.280 --> 1:21:04.800
<v Speaker 3>Hit it off.

1:21:05.520 --> 1:21:08.600
<v Speaker 2>I felt like he understood something about it and was

1:21:08.640 --> 1:21:10.200
<v Speaker 2>going to bring cool stuff to the table, even though

1:21:10.200 --> 1:21:12.719
<v Speaker 2>he didn't have a bunch of records to say, here's

1:21:12.760 --> 1:21:14.559
<v Speaker 2>all the things I've already done. We were all kind

1:21:14.600 --> 1:21:19.120
<v Speaker 2>of going in trusting each other and that relationship was

1:21:19.439 --> 1:21:24.880
<v Speaker 2>really important and great. Like having Dave for both Fallen

1:21:24.960 --> 1:21:28.800
<v Speaker 2>and the Open Door was it was so essential for

1:21:28.840 --> 1:21:29.559
<v Speaker 2>me personally.

1:21:31.840 --> 1:21:34.960
<v Speaker 1>How long after you go to LA do they say

1:21:35.520 --> 1:21:37.960
<v Speaker 1>you have the songs, let's cut them? Or are you

1:21:38.120 --> 1:21:39.599
<v Speaker 1>cutting them as you're writing them?

1:21:40.479 --> 1:21:41.760
<v Speaker 3>No, we weren't cutting as we were writing.

1:21:41.760 --> 1:21:43.680
<v Speaker 2>We're just demoing. We were just demoing. And then it

1:21:43.720 --> 1:21:46.760
<v Speaker 2>was like okay, we agree, like on your songs, like

1:21:46.880 --> 1:21:48.720
<v Speaker 2>you can go in. But it was very much like

1:21:48.760 --> 1:21:52.080
<v Speaker 2>you know, it was my schooling. It's like the traditional method,

1:21:52.120 --> 1:21:55.080
<v Speaker 2>like you go in. Time is money. You know we're

1:21:55.120 --> 1:21:57.680
<v Speaker 2>going to record, you know, first get make sure we

1:21:57.720 --> 1:21:59.720
<v Speaker 2>know we've got everything mapped out before we're paying for

1:21:59.720 --> 1:22:02.599
<v Speaker 2>student a time in like a pre production sort of zone,

1:22:02.640 --> 1:22:05.960
<v Speaker 2>in a rehearsal space at where Dave was with us,

1:22:06.000 --> 1:22:08.280
<v Speaker 2>like kind of mapping things out. We've already decided this

1:22:08.360 --> 1:22:10.280
<v Speaker 2>is the tempo, you know, this is how long the

1:22:10.280 --> 1:22:12.679
<v Speaker 2>bridge is, all the pretty much had it all mapped

1:22:12.920 --> 1:22:14.439
<v Speaker 2>and then it's like you go into the studio and

1:22:14.479 --> 1:22:15.800
<v Speaker 2>you do all the drums and then you do all

1:22:15.800 --> 1:22:17.000
<v Speaker 2>the bass, and then you do all the guitar and

1:22:17.000 --> 1:22:18.519
<v Speaker 2>then you know, just in order like that.

1:22:19.400 --> 1:22:20.320
<v Speaker 3>So it's pretty typical.

1:22:20.479 --> 1:22:23.800
<v Speaker 1>Okay, to the degree you can remember, you land in

1:22:23.960 --> 1:22:26.680
<v Speaker 1>LA you end up working with Dave Fortman. How long

1:22:26.720 --> 1:22:27.800
<v Speaker 1>a period of time is that.

1:22:30.040 --> 1:22:33.920
<v Speaker 2>From landing to working with him? We spent at a

1:22:34.080 --> 1:22:36.160
<v Speaker 2>solid year I almost want to say a year and

1:22:36.200 --> 1:22:41.800
<v Speaker 2>a half in that limbo like still writing songs, pre

1:22:41.840 --> 1:22:42.599
<v Speaker 2>production zone.

1:22:42.760 --> 1:22:46.200
<v Speaker 1>I okay, you're a young woman essentially a coupler student.

1:22:46.640 --> 1:22:49.479
<v Speaker 1>Do they give you a car? Do you hang out?

1:22:49.560 --> 1:22:51.920
<v Speaker 1>Do you go to shows? Do you go to the beach?

1:22:52.360 --> 1:22:55.360
<v Speaker 1>Or you just sitting in the would writing songs.

1:22:55.720 --> 1:22:58.400
<v Speaker 2>I went to the beach, sure, and I had my

1:22:58.479 --> 1:23:02.360
<v Speaker 2>family all come out, like during spring Breaker something, and

1:23:02.560 --> 1:23:04.080
<v Speaker 2>we all went to Universal. And I felt like the

1:23:04.080 --> 1:23:06.760
<v Speaker 2>cool person who like took into Venice Beach and went

1:23:06.800 --> 1:23:09.479
<v Speaker 2>to Universal Studios. And I'm the big sister who's like

1:23:09.479 --> 1:23:11.400
<v Speaker 2>about to be a rock star with all the my

1:23:11.400 --> 1:23:14.479
<v Speaker 2>sweet little sibs just like that, making them think I'm

1:23:14.520 --> 1:23:15.000
<v Speaker 2>super cool.

1:23:15.439 --> 1:23:20.200
<v Speaker 1>So nobody doubt.

1:23:20.200 --> 1:23:22.919
<v Speaker 2>Of whether or not we were going to run success.

1:23:23.439 --> 1:23:26.679
<v Speaker 2>Oh of course though, Well you can't think about that.

1:23:26.439 --> 1:23:27.720
<v Speaker 2>That's all cass you up.

1:23:28.920 --> 1:23:33.960
<v Speaker 1>The record is now done. Are you a happy with

1:23:34.040 --> 1:23:36.040
<v Speaker 1>the record? And B do you believe it's going to

1:23:36.080 --> 1:23:38.080
<v Speaker 1>be commercially successful?

1:23:39.120 --> 1:23:42.000
<v Speaker 2>I absolutely believe that. I think.

1:23:43.800 --> 1:23:46.519
<v Speaker 3>For the most part, like you have to you have

1:23:46.600 --> 1:23:48.800
<v Speaker 3>to be good. Things are made.

1:23:48.600 --> 1:23:51.200
<v Speaker 2>When everybody believes in it and everybody's excited about it

1:23:51.200 --> 1:23:54.599
<v Speaker 2>and working for it, as if there is no possible

1:23:54.600 --> 1:23:56.679
<v Speaker 2>way it could fail, Like you have to operate that way,

1:23:56.960 --> 1:24:00.280
<v Speaker 2>like that's the passion just driving you. I always leaved

1:24:00.280 --> 1:24:06.560
<v Speaker 2>in it like that. But what I couldn't have foreseen

1:24:07.439 --> 1:24:11.760
<v Speaker 2>or maybe believed or comprehended at the time was where

1:24:11.800 --> 1:24:14.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm at now. I think, like the whole the whole

1:24:14.920 --> 1:24:17.320
<v Speaker 2>thing in my head at the time was about that

1:24:17.360 --> 1:24:20.840
<v Speaker 2>album and that music and that moment and us existing

1:24:20.880 --> 1:24:22.559
<v Speaker 2>in a way. Where are we going to be a

1:24:22.600 --> 1:24:24.640
<v Speaker 2>band that can like exist and I can I can

1:24:24.680 --> 1:24:27.160
<v Speaker 2>be a musician like this, you know, for my career,

1:24:28.800 --> 1:24:31.320
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't long term, Like I never would have imagined

1:24:31.320 --> 1:24:36.080
<v Speaker 2>that at forty three we be at a better place

1:24:36.280 --> 1:24:39.679
<v Speaker 2>by far than we were at on our first album,

1:24:39.760 --> 1:24:43.880
<v Speaker 2>which which did so well, and have fans around the

1:24:43.920 --> 1:24:47.719
<v Speaker 2>world and all those things. Like it's definitely a degree

1:24:47.760 --> 1:24:50.200
<v Speaker 2>that isn't something you can plan for or expect. You

1:24:50.320 --> 1:24:52.599
<v Speaker 2>just I don't know. You just have to make what

1:24:52.640 --> 1:24:54.280
<v Speaker 2>you love and believe in it and give it, give

1:24:54.280 --> 1:24:55.439
<v Speaker 2>it your everything all the time.

1:24:55.840 --> 1:24:58.880
<v Speaker 1>Okay, it's a different era twenty years ago, but the

1:24:58.920 --> 1:25:03.760
<v Speaker 1>record is done, the record is released. From your perspective,

1:25:04.040 --> 1:25:06.960
<v Speaker 1>did it just take off or did they say let's

1:25:07.000 --> 1:25:08.720
<v Speaker 1>see if it happens, or did they put you on

1:25:08.800 --> 1:25:11.080
<v Speaker 1>the road. What happened.

1:25:12.600 --> 1:25:18.360
<v Speaker 2>In my mind now, it all felt pretty fast, but

1:25:19.560 --> 1:25:22.160
<v Speaker 2>It was a tumultuous time for sure. Like it was

1:25:22.200 --> 1:25:25.240
<v Speaker 2>like there was big success that felt fat. It was

1:25:25.320 --> 1:25:28.400
<v Speaker 2>fast radio stations like Seattle I think was like the

1:25:28.400 --> 1:25:29.760
<v Speaker 2>first one that picked it up. And then it was

1:25:29.800 --> 1:25:31.680
<v Speaker 2>like ky rock and it just spread and it was

1:25:31.680 --> 1:25:37.160
<v Speaker 2>this thing where it was charting, and I had a

1:25:37.160 --> 1:25:39.360
<v Speaker 2>lot of a lot of conflicting feelings going on at

1:25:39.400 --> 1:25:42.959
<v Speaker 2>the same time, excitement and all that, of course, also exhaustion.

1:25:43.120 --> 1:25:46.760
<v Speaker 2>We were touring way hard and in between, you know,

1:25:46.920 --> 1:25:49.200
<v Speaker 2>starting to do the awards show stuff and everything all

1:25:49.280 --> 1:25:51.600
<v Speaker 2>this like that stuff like it was all it was

1:25:51.680 --> 1:25:53.840
<v Speaker 2>kind of all at once, and at the same time

1:25:53.880 --> 1:25:55.840
<v Speaker 2>I was worried. I remember what it was bringing to

1:25:55.880 --> 1:25:57.559
<v Speaker 2>life was our first song and there was a guest

1:25:57.600 --> 1:26:02.000
<v Speaker 2>vocal on it. I was really really worried about that.

1:26:02.000 --> 1:26:04.920
<v Speaker 2>That wasn't what I wanted. And I was concerned that

1:26:04.920 --> 1:26:07.519
<v Speaker 2>people wouldn't understand our sound. But they was think there

1:26:07.560 --> 1:26:09.240
<v Speaker 2>was two singers in the band, and how are we

1:26:09.280 --> 1:26:12.080
<v Speaker 2>going to overcome this like this this thing that we

1:26:12.160 --> 1:26:15.840
<v Speaker 2>had to do, you know. And Paul, by the way,

1:26:16.200 --> 1:26:21.000
<v Speaker 2>was wonderful. I really love Paul. He did everything to

1:26:21.040 --> 1:26:23.160
<v Speaker 2>just come into the stshure. We go okay, like I'll

1:26:23.200 --> 1:26:26.560
<v Speaker 2>do this and and nailed it, and then at the

1:26:26.600 --> 1:26:29.400
<v Speaker 2>same time I'm struggling with like it was that wasn't

1:26:29.400 --> 1:26:31.559
<v Speaker 2>my original vision and are people gonna I don't know,

1:26:31.960 --> 1:26:34.920
<v Speaker 2>but you know, only a few months later, which felt

1:26:34.920 --> 1:26:37.599
<v Speaker 2>like a million years in the moment, Going Under happened

1:26:37.880 --> 1:26:40.559
<v Speaker 2>and it was really successful too, and then my mortal

1:26:40.640 --> 1:26:42.559
<v Speaker 2>and I was just it was this relief that people

1:26:42.600 --> 1:26:45.960
<v Speaker 2>understood who we were. At the same time, my brother

1:26:46.040 --> 1:26:49.840
<v Speaker 2>was sick at home having brain surgery that year, and

1:26:50.640 --> 1:26:53.040
<v Speaker 2>it just it was just a time where there was

1:26:53.080 --> 1:26:56.280
<v Speaker 2>a lot of emotion in me and a lot of

1:26:56.320 --> 1:27:01.400
<v Speaker 2>me feeling like I needed to present strong, and inside

1:27:01.720 --> 1:27:04.280
<v Speaker 2>I felt like I didn't have a lot of control

1:27:04.479 --> 1:27:05.280
<v Speaker 2>over anything.

1:27:07.560 --> 1:27:12.479
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you do have this great success out of the

1:27:12.520 --> 1:27:16.160
<v Speaker 1>box you've been working. You know, there's a couple of

1:27:16.160 --> 1:27:20.240
<v Speaker 1>cliches here. You've been working on your first album for years. Second,

1:27:20.280 --> 1:27:23.720
<v Speaker 1>you have success. Now what you have to follow it up?

1:27:25.040 --> 1:27:25.519
<v Speaker 3>Exactly?

1:27:30.400 --> 1:27:33.880
<v Speaker 2>How do I? How do I start that one?

1:27:34.200 --> 1:27:36.599
<v Speaker 1>What do you? You know? What do you even do?

1:27:36.680 --> 1:27:38.799
<v Speaker 1>Are you on the road saying, fuck, I gotta write

1:27:38.840 --> 1:27:42.120
<v Speaker 1>songs or when the tour is over, I'll write songs

1:27:42.160 --> 1:27:44.120
<v Speaker 1>and yeah, I gotta have songs as good as a

1:27:44.200 --> 1:27:45.120
<v Speaker 1>previous album.

1:27:47.320 --> 1:27:50.960
<v Speaker 2>I wanted all of that, but writing on the road

1:27:51.040 --> 1:27:53.679
<v Speaker 2>wasn't possible for me. That was way too hard at

1:27:53.720 --> 1:27:56.040
<v Speaker 2>the time. I'm able to come up with ideas better

1:27:56.080 --> 1:27:58.400
<v Speaker 2>now I have a little portable rig and I'm comfortable

1:27:58.400 --> 1:28:01.400
<v Speaker 2>with multitasking. It's like I can only think about one.

1:28:01.439 --> 1:28:04.200
<v Speaker 2>Those are two opposite sides of my personality. There's the

1:28:04.320 --> 1:28:08.799
<v Speaker 2>you know, the creative introvert who's you know, writing songs

1:28:08.920 --> 1:28:11.920
<v Speaker 2>and only thinking about like the inside. And then there's

1:28:11.960 --> 1:28:14.360
<v Speaker 2>this extrovert side that I have to be this showman

1:28:14.800 --> 1:28:17.360
<v Speaker 2>and doing interviews and standing on stage and telling the

1:28:17.360 --> 1:28:21.000
<v Speaker 2>crowd to rally and all those things. So for me,

1:28:21.080 --> 1:28:25.360
<v Speaker 2>it was like I could only do one. So we

1:28:25.479 --> 1:28:28.160
<v Speaker 2>toured fall In for a really good amount of time,

1:28:28.240 --> 1:28:30.040
<v Speaker 2>like when all over the world. It was exhausting by

1:28:30.080 --> 1:28:32.240
<v Speaker 2>the time I got home and I was tired, but

1:28:32.680 --> 1:28:35.640
<v Speaker 2>I had it definitely in my heart that I was

1:28:36.040 --> 1:28:38.400
<v Speaker 2>dying to prove myself and I knew, you know, what

1:28:38.479 --> 1:28:40.080
<v Speaker 2>it meant, and it was like, well, this is survival

1:28:40.160 --> 1:28:42.640
<v Speaker 2>or not, and I have to show like what is

1:28:42.720 --> 1:28:46.599
<v Speaker 2>me and what my worth is because you know, even

1:28:46.760 --> 1:28:50.600
<v Speaker 2>the people around me don't know. And I have to

1:28:50.600 --> 1:28:54.360
<v Speaker 2>give some credit to Terry Balsamo, who became our guitar

1:28:54.400 --> 1:28:57.639
<v Speaker 2>player in the middle of that Fallen tour. He's from

1:28:57.680 --> 1:29:01.600
<v Speaker 2>a band Cold, and I remember at the time like

1:29:01.640 --> 1:29:06.839
<v Speaker 2>he was struggling in his situation with his band, and

1:29:06.920 --> 1:29:10.320
<v Speaker 2>when I don't know, when things hit the fan, it

1:29:10.400 --> 1:29:11.559
<v Speaker 2>was like, Hey, you want to be in a band

1:29:11.560 --> 1:29:13.920
<v Speaker 2>with me? You want to come like fill in. He's like, yeah,

1:29:13.920 --> 1:29:17.080
<v Speaker 2>I'll fill in, And then we ended up really connecting

1:29:17.160 --> 1:29:20.479
<v Speaker 2>musically on a lot of things. He sort of it

1:29:20.520 --> 1:29:24.080
<v Speaker 2>was kind of like I made him love and appreciate

1:29:24.120 --> 1:29:27.120
<v Speaker 2>you York, and he made me love and appreciate Pantera

1:29:27.280 --> 1:29:30.000
<v Speaker 2>and the Deaf Tones. So it was like this nice

1:29:30.080 --> 1:29:33.040
<v Speaker 2>like mashup of like opposite worlds that was really beautiful.

1:29:33.040 --> 1:29:33.920
<v Speaker 3>And he's a great musician.

1:29:34.240 --> 1:29:37.120
<v Speaker 2>So we spent a bunch of time after the end

1:29:37.200 --> 1:29:40.960
<v Speaker 2>of tour at my place in California, just the two

1:29:41.040 --> 1:29:45.519
<v Speaker 2>of us writing the second record. He stayed with me

1:29:45.840 --> 1:29:49.320
<v Speaker 2>for weeks at a time and we would just be creative,

1:29:49.840 --> 1:29:54.200
<v Speaker 2>hang out, night, swim, go, get drunk, all that stuff,

1:29:55.160 --> 1:29:57.960
<v Speaker 2>and it was just a really it was an important

1:29:57.960 --> 1:30:00.360
<v Speaker 2>time for me to feel like and and he was

1:30:00.960 --> 1:30:08.559
<v Speaker 2>honestly just extremely supportive of me and uplifting me about

1:30:08.600 --> 1:30:11.200
<v Speaker 2>my ideas. It wasn't that he was always going, yeah

1:30:11.200 --> 1:30:12.720
<v Speaker 2>that's not heavy enough, or yeah that could be cooler

1:30:12.720 --> 1:30:14.680
<v Speaker 2>if we did this. He really listened to me and

1:30:14.720 --> 1:30:16.920
<v Speaker 2>followed me and respected me. Even though I feel like

1:30:17.400 --> 1:30:20.120
<v Speaker 2>it was it was something that was different. We had

1:30:20.160 --> 1:30:24.240
<v Speaker 2>different talents. It's hard to explain, but I got very,

1:30:24.360 --> 1:30:27.000
<v Speaker 2>very lucky meeting him at the right time, and we

1:30:27.439 --> 1:30:29.400
<v Speaker 2>made that album and worked on the next one together

1:30:29.479 --> 1:30:29.840
<v Speaker 2>as well.

1:30:37.920 --> 1:30:41.400
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you referenced this earlier, but let's go a little

1:30:41.439 --> 1:30:45.559
<v Speaker 1>deeper into the five years between the second and third albums.

1:30:46.080 --> 1:30:50.920
<v Speaker 1>M So you said earlier you got to a point

1:30:50.960 --> 1:30:52.759
<v Speaker 1>where you said, I don't know if I'm even gonna

1:30:52.800 --> 1:30:58.840
<v Speaker 1>do this anymore. I mean, was this exhaustion anger or

1:30:58.960 --> 1:31:01.280
<v Speaker 1>like I did it, I want to take a break?

1:31:01.360 --> 1:31:01.960
<v Speaker 1>What was it?

1:31:02.960 --> 1:31:05.360
<v Speaker 2>There was a lot of things. I was struggling with

1:31:05.360 --> 1:31:09.240
<v Speaker 2>the label. I was also struggling with management. I had

1:31:09.280 --> 1:31:11.559
<v Speaker 2>to go through a couple of lawsuits. There was just

1:31:11.600 --> 1:31:15.439
<v Speaker 2>a mess. There was a mess behind the scenes, and

1:31:15.520 --> 1:31:16.760
<v Speaker 2>it was stuck in all the fun out of it

1:31:16.800 --> 1:31:18.920
<v Speaker 2>for me, Like every time I had a cool idea.

1:31:18.960 --> 1:31:22.920
<v Speaker 2>I feel like it was being not appreciated shot down,

1:31:23.040 --> 1:31:27.400
<v Speaker 2>Like I just you have I have learned the incredible

1:31:27.400 --> 1:31:30.360
<v Speaker 2>difference of surrounding yourself with people who truly like believe

1:31:30.400 --> 1:31:34.800
<v Speaker 2>in you. I didn't have that for a while, and

1:31:35.040 --> 1:31:37.719
<v Speaker 2>when we got to the end of touring the second one,

1:31:37.800 --> 1:31:41.200
<v Speaker 2>there was a mess and I just it just didn't

1:31:41.200 --> 1:31:45.080
<v Speaker 2>want to spend my life arguing and fighting for everything.

1:31:45.280 --> 1:31:47.640
<v Speaker 2>I just wanted to make great music, you know, and

1:31:47.680 --> 1:31:52.240
<v Speaker 2>it's just not It wasn't that simple. So I definitely

1:31:52.240 --> 1:31:56.360
<v Speaker 2>spend some time like in court and like cleaning up messes,

1:31:56.400 --> 1:31:59.640
<v Speaker 2>like behind the scenes. And also like Terry had a

1:31:59.680 --> 1:32:03.240
<v Speaker 2>stroke and it was really difficult. It had become really

1:32:03.240 --> 1:32:05.920
<v Speaker 2>difficult for him to play and tour. So it was

1:32:05.960 --> 1:32:07.960
<v Speaker 2>like I lost that thing that it helped me, you know.

1:32:08.600 --> 1:32:10.240
<v Speaker 2>So there was just it felt at the time like

1:32:10.280 --> 1:32:11.519
<v Speaker 2>there was a lot against me. And I was also

1:32:11.560 --> 1:32:14.080
<v Speaker 2>kind of having an identity crisis about what it was

1:32:14.160 --> 1:32:16.240
<v Speaker 2>and what it looked like. And I could see elements

1:32:16.240 --> 1:32:19.720
<v Speaker 2>of like it's like the picture on the fall and cover,

1:32:20.200 --> 1:32:21.879
<v Speaker 2>it was like a cartoon of myself.

1:32:22.080 --> 1:32:24.360
<v Speaker 3>It's like that's a character that's not me.

1:32:24.920 --> 1:32:25.000
<v Speaker 1>That.

1:32:25.080 --> 1:32:27.720
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's a caricature. It's it's not the whole me,

1:32:28.280 --> 1:32:31.519
<v Speaker 2>and people don't understand like that there's a lot more

1:32:31.560 --> 1:32:34.600
<v Speaker 2>to this than that. And I was still, I don't know,

1:32:34.640 --> 1:32:36.000
<v Speaker 2>at a place in my life where that was that

1:32:36.080 --> 1:32:36.599
<v Speaker 2>was difficult.

1:32:37.080 --> 1:32:38.519
<v Speaker 3>I want everybody to know me all the way.

1:32:38.600 --> 1:32:40.120
<v Speaker 2>I know that people can't know me all the way,

1:32:40.520 --> 1:32:42.200
<v Speaker 2>but like as an artist, I think there's something in

1:32:42.240 --> 1:32:44.719
<v Speaker 2>there that's like we're striving. We want to be known

1:32:45.400 --> 1:32:48.400
<v Speaker 2>like as openly as possible. That's what feels good is

1:32:48.720 --> 1:32:52.600
<v Speaker 2>feeling that that connection with people. And I kind of

1:32:52.640 --> 1:32:55.120
<v Speaker 2>had to just like not make that kind of music

1:32:55.160 --> 1:32:57.920
<v Speaker 2>for a while. I did some solo stuff, I made

1:32:57.960 --> 1:33:01.160
<v Speaker 2>music by myself in my house. I don't know, I

1:33:01.200 --> 1:33:03.520
<v Speaker 2>just I had to get back to a place where eventually,

1:33:03.600 --> 1:33:07.280
<v Speaker 2>like my heart showed me that it was still I mean,

1:33:07.360 --> 1:33:10.439
<v Speaker 2>it was what I wanted naturally, I wanted it really bad.

1:33:10.479 --> 1:33:13.479
<v Speaker 2>By the time we made more music together, and it

1:33:13.520 --> 1:33:15.040
<v Speaker 2>was just like come over to my house, let's make

1:33:15.080 --> 1:33:16.920
<v Speaker 2>music at the house, and everybody come over. I don't know,

1:33:17.600 --> 1:33:18.240
<v Speaker 2>do it however?

1:33:18.880 --> 1:33:22.160
<v Speaker 1>Make it happen so exist when you start going to therapy.

1:33:23.280 --> 1:33:26.760
<v Speaker 2>No, I have been to therapy, But I started a long,

1:33:26.880 --> 1:33:29.679
<v Speaker 2>long time before that. It was definitely before the album,

1:33:29.720 --> 1:33:31.080
<v Speaker 2>before the first album ever came out.

1:33:31.200 --> 1:33:34.639
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So before the first album came out, like right before,

1:33:35.040 --> 1:33:36.280
<v Speaker 1>years before.

1:33:36.800 --> 1:33:40.200
<v Speaker 2>No, like right before, like like during during that process.

1:33:40.240 --> 1:33:43.080
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So what stimulated going to therapy?

1:33:45.680 --> 1:33:48.920
<v Speaker 2>Stuff in my personal life current but also uh just

1:33:49.000 --> 1:33:56.720
<v Speaker 2>past past trauma, dealing with you know, grief and how

1:33:56.760 --> 1:33:58.599
<v Speaker 2>that manifests in the present.

1:33:59.640 --> 1:34:02.240
<v Speaker 1>Well, there good therapist and bad therapist. How do you

1:34:02.280 --> 1:34:03.240
<v Speaker 1>find a therapist?

1:34:05.280 --> 1:34:05.760
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

1:34:06.120 --> 1:34:08.880
<v Speaker 2>I haven't actually, I haven't been to therapy in a

1:34:08.880 --> 1:34:09.639
<v Speaker 2>really long time.

1:34:10.640 --> 1:34:12.280
<v Speaker 1>So did it help you at the time?

1:34:13.040 --> 1:34:16.479
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I did, absolutely. I needed to be fair, I

1:34:16.560 --> 1:34:19.960
<v Speaker 2>needed a woman to talk you and it just wasn't

1:34:20.000 --> 1:34:20.920
<v Speaker 2>something I had.

1:34:21.560 --> 1:34:26.640
<v Speaker 1>Okay, there's a lot of money generated when you have

1:34:26.760 --> 1:34:30.520
<v Speaker 1>this level of success in music. It all doesn't necessarily

1:34:30.560 --> 1:34:33.040
<v Speaker 1>come back to the artist, and even the money that

1:34:33.160 --> 1:34:38.360
<v Speaker 1>comes back to the artist can be very delayed. Lawsuits

1:34:38.600 --> 1:34:44.240
<v Speaker 1>are very expensive. So how did it work with the money?

1:34:44.640 --> 1:34:46.320
<v Speaker 1>Did you see the money and say, oh, I want

1:34:46.360 --> 1:34:48.719
<v Speaker 1>to go out and buy X or did the money

1:34:48.760 --> 1:34:51.760
<v Speaker 1>never really come through? You know, there's successful acts. I'm

1:34:51.800 --> 1:34:54.599
<v Speaker 1>both into the spectrum wait.

1:34:54.360 --> 1:34:56.360
<v Speaker 2>Are you talking about in the beginning, Like how long

1:34:56.360 --> 1:34:57.559
<v Speaker 2>did it take to see money? No?

1:34:57.920 --> 1:34:58.720
<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

1:34:58.760 --> 1:35:00.760
<v Speaker 1>And did you get the money you thought you deserve them?

1:35:00.760 --> 1:35:02.360
<v Speaker 1>Did you spend it or what'd you do with it?

1:35:02.920 --> 1:35:03.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh?

1:35:03.400 --> 1:35:04.759
<v Speaker 3>Well that stuff.

1:35:05.120 --> 1:35:09.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean that's a long answer. I don't It

1:35:09.240 --> 1:35:11.559
<v Speaker 2>took a while, yes, to come in for sure. And

1:35:11.600 --> 1:35:14.000
<v Speaker 2>you always have to chase it. They're not going to

1:35:14.080 --> 1:35:16.280
<v Speaker 2>just pay you. You're gonna have to audit every time.

1:35:18.320 --> 1:35:20.840
<v Speaker 2>And you know, when you don't have the money to

1:35:20.920 --> 1:35:24.439
<v Speaker 2>begin with, you know's that's where artists get taken advantage

1:35:24.479 --> 1:35:29.559
<v Speaker 2>of so much. Because I feel like Fallen and the

1:35:29.560 --> 1:35:32.439
<v Speaker 2>success of Fallen gave me the luxury of being able

1:35:32.479 --> 1:35:35.519
<v Speaker 2>to when I can't get what I want, When I

1:35:35.520 --> 1:35:38.200
<v Speaker 2>can't get the advance or whatever, I can't get the

1:35:38.280 --> 1:35:39.960
<v Speaker 2>label to sign on, I'll be like, Okay, fine, I'll

1:35:39.960 --> 1:35:40.639
<v Speaker 2>spend my own money.

1:35:40.760 --> 1:35:41.519
<v Speaker 3>I'll do it myself.

1:35:42.160 --> 1:35:45.080
<v Speaker 2>And I still operate that way when thinks if I

1:35:45.120 --> 1:35:47.360
<v Speaker 2>need to do something and I want to do something,

1:35:47.360 --> 1:35:51.559
<v Speaker 2>I just do it I can. That has really been

1:35:51.600 --> 1:35:56.280
<v Speaker 2>an incredible gift and I but that said, I'm not

1:35:56.360 --> 1:36:00.880
<v Speaker 2>a person who spends a lot of money on shit

1:36:01.240 --> 1:36:04.439
<v Speaker 2>for myself and I'm a person that spends money on

1:36:04.600 --> 1:36:08.640
<v Speaker 2>our band. I really do spend I have always invested

1:36:08.680 --> 1:36:10.719
<v Speaker 2>back into the thing that made it in the first place.

1:36:11.040 --> 1:36:13.320
<v Speaker 2>So when we made our second record, I remember we

1:36:13.320 --> 1:36:15.360
<v Speaker 2>went to the record plant in La and I was like,

1:36:16.000 --> 1:36:18.639
<v Speaker 2>money's no object. We're staying here and we're gonna write

1:36:18.640 --> 1:36:20.160
<v Speaker 2>in the studio and we're not going to feel that

1:36:20.200 --> 1:36:22.960
<v Speaker 2>pressure of time like we did last time. We're gonna

1:36:22.960 --> 1:36:25.519
<v Speaker 2>make all the choices that feel good and take time

1:36:25.520 --> 1:36:28.240
<v Speaker 2>to really listen back and just make this great. And

1:36:28.520 --> 1:36:31.880
<v Speaker 2>that was a great process. I feel like I probably

1:36:31.880 --> 1:36:34.080
<v Speaker 2>spent more on that album than any of them, just

1:36:34.080 --> 1:36:35.640
<v Speaker 2>because it's like I was just like learning, like I

1:36:35.640 --> 1:36:36.160
<v Speaker 2>don't know.

1:36:37.280 --> 1:36:39.160
<v Speaker 1>Well, how long were you in it? How much did

1:36:39.200 --> 1:36:39.360
<v Speaker 1>you do?

1:36:39.400 --> 1:36:42.280
<v Speaker 2>We were in the studio for over a million dollars.

1:36:42.520 --> 1:36:46.640
<v Speaker 2>We were in the studio for I don't know record plants.

1:36:46.880 --> 1:36:48.760
<v Speaker 2>I want to say six months. Long time.

1:36:50.439 --> 1:36:51.040
<v Speaker 3>It was awesome.

1:36:52.720 --> 1:36:56.880
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you're there that long. The label's not happy if

1:36:57.040 --> 1:37:00.920
<v Speaker 1>forget them, forget the money. The label only wants another

1:37:01.000 --> 1:37:06.600
<v Speaker 1>record immediately. Yeah, So you second guessing yourself? Are you saying, no,

1:37:06.840 --> 1:37:09.639
<v Speaker 1>I know exactly what I'm doing. It's taking the time it's.

1:37:09.479 --> 1:37:13.000
<v Speaker 2>Taking, I was saying, fuck the man, and I made

1:37:13.000 --> 1:37:14.519
<v Speaker 2>you that money, so don't tell me what to do.

1:37:14.960 --> 1:37:18.080
<v Speaker 2>And at the time, I think that whatever they were feeling,

1:37:18.920 --> 1:37:22.800
<v Speaker 2>they did know that they were gonna make it back

1:37:23.000 --> 1:37:26.800
<v Speaker 2>just through fallen royalties anyway. So sure they don't like it,

1:37:26.880 --> 1:37:30.519
<v Speaker 2>but I was definitely that was my rebellious teens moment.

1:37:31.479 --> 1:37:34.120
<v Speaker 1>And to what degree are you as student of the game.

1:37:34.160 --> 1:37:36.400
<v Speaker 1>Your first album comes out in two thousand and three,

1:37:36.920 --> 1:37:43.840
<v Speaker 1>The recording landscape is completely different today. You know, you

1:37:43.880 --> 1:37:46.840
<v Speaker 1>were like at the tail end of music television, the

1:37:46.920 --> 1:37:51.839
<v Speaker 1>power of terrestrial rio. Something goes, it goes big. Nothing

1:37:52.439 --> 1:37:57.439
<v Speaker 1>is that big anymore. Nothing absolutely okay. And in addition,

1:37:57.680 --> 1:38:01.280
<v Speaker 1>unless you have something a certain track, the odds of

1:38:01.360 --> 1:38:04.920
<v Speaker 1>making a lot of money streaming or not high. Right,

1:38:05.520 --> 1:38:07.280
<v Speaker 1>So where do you sit on all this?

1:38:08.160 --> 1:38:10.840
<v Speaker 2>I just feel like you if you have to open

1:38:10.880 --> 1:38:14.240
<v Speaker 2>your mind about how you're making your money, Like we

1:38:14.720 --> 1:38:17.600
<v Speaker 2>just spent you know, a couple hundred thousand dollars on

1:38:17.600 --> 1:38:20.080
<v Speaker 2>a music video game like that doesn't make money.

1:38:20.439 --> 1:38:21.040
<v Speaker 3>Used to get.

1:38:20.920 --> 1:38:25.679
<v Speaker 2>Paid in like like like streams, like every time MTV

1:38:25.720 --> 1:38:27.599
<v Speaker 2>would play it, you get something it's like radio play.

1:38:28.800 --> 1:38:30.760
<v Speaker 2>And now you literally just put it up for free

1:38:30.800 --> 1:38:33.960
<v Speaker 2>on YouTube. You have to recognize that when you when

1:38:34.000 --> 1:38:39.200
<v Speaker 2>you invest in your band, in your brand, in whatever

1:38:39.240 --> 1:38:42.880
<v Speaker 2>it is, and show them what it's worth, then it's

1:38:42.920 --> 1:38:45.640
<v Speaker 2>gonna come. I have found that it comes back to

1:38:45.680 --> 1:38:48.200
<v Speaker 2>you in other ways, whether it's that whether or not

1:38:48.240 --> 1:38:51.360
<v Speaker 2>that's you know, a commercial, like a placement somebody wanted,

1:38:51.439 --> 1:38:53.519
<v Speaker 2>Oh cool, I saw that, that was awesome, Let's use

1:38:53.520 --> 1:38:54.960
<v Speaker 2>you for this, or come write a song for my

1:38:55.080 --> 1:38:58.720
<v Speaker 2>this or that, and or most importantly, I would say,

1:38:58.720 --> 1:39:02.559
<v Speaker 2>is touring, like how you make it this awesome event,

1:39:02.680 --> 1:39:05.559
<v Speaker 2>this thing that people want to experience. Then you can

1:39:05.600 --> 1:39:08.719
<v Speaker 2>go play shows you know, and have a big audience

1:39:08.760 --> 1:39:10.840
<v Speaker 2>and there's plenty of money. It's still to be made

1:39:10.920 --> 1:39:13.400
<v Speaker 2>on the touring side, for sure, and that takes work,

1:39:13.439 --> 1:39:15.840
<v Speaker 2>and that takes leaving your family and all of those things.

1:39:15.880 --> 1:39:18.640
<v Speaker 2>So you definitely have to be willing to put the

1:39:18.680 --> 1:39:21.400
<v Speaker 2>work in. But I have a great band, and playing

1:39:21.439 --> 1:39:25.639
<v Speaker 2>live is also really really fun, So I mean knowing

1:39:25.680 --> 1:39:27.080
<v Speaker 2>that we're gonna go out there and have a good

1:39:27.120 --> 1:39:29.040
<v Speaker 2>time is different the old cliches.

1:39:29.080 --> 1:39:31.920
<v Speaker 1>You're on stage one hour day, they're paying you for

1:39:31.960 --> 1:39:33.640
<v Speaker 1>the other twenty three hours.

1:39:34.040 --> 1:39:35.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you gotta make it fun.

1:39:35.720 --> 1:39:37.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm kind of I to make it fun.

1:39:38.120 --> 1:39:43.120
<v Speaker 2>I make it fun like I like, we're gonna go

1:39:43.120 --> 1:39:44.680
<v Speaker 2>on a booz peruise. I already booked it. Let's go

1:39:44.840 --> 1:39:49.320
<v Speaker 2>required everybody come, like if we have a day off,

1:39:49.439 --> 1:39:54.479
<v Speaker 2>like I'm gonna put us, you know, in Paris, not

1:39:54.720 --> 1:39:58.080
<v Speaker 2>in whatever random talent you can't pronounce, if I can,

1:39:58.200 --> 1:39:58.679
<v Speaker 2>if I can.

1:39:58.840 --> 1:40:00.000
<v Speaker 3>You can't always make that happen.

1:40:00.040 --> 1:40:02.599
<v Speaker 2>Of course, there's boring days, you know what, when we're

1:40:02.600 --> 1:40:05.880
<v Speaker 2>in the middle of nowhere in Utah, like at a

1:40:07.320 --> 1:40:10.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what hotel name to use, but something

1:40:10.080 --> 1:40:10.840
<v Speaker 2>not great.

1:40:12.000 --> 1:40:13.280
<v Speaker 3>We barbecue in the parking lot.

1:40:13.320 --> 1:40:15.200
<v Speaker 2>We're friends with our crew, like we have a lot

1:40:15.280 --> 1:40:17.360
<v Speaker 2>of our crew that have been that are our close

1:40:17.400 --> 1:40:19.639
<v Speaker 2>friends that we've been with for years doing this together.

1:40:19.720 --> 1:40:22.120
<v Speaker 3>You have to make it your family like.

1:40:22.200 --> 1:40:24.360
<v Speaker 2>You have to make it fun so that you don't

1:40:24.360 --> 1:40:27.000
<v Speaker 2>feel like you're just wasting your time twenty three like

1:40:27.040 --> 1:40:28.840
<v Speaker 2>you said, however, long out of the day you're not

1:40:28.920 --> 1:40:31.560
<v Speaker 2>actually doing your job. I don't want to live a

1:40:31.600 --> 1:40:33.400
<v Speaker 2>life where I'm just like sitting in my hotel room

1:40:33.479 --> 1:40:35.680
<v Speaker 2>not talking to anybody, And would it be better for

1:40:35.760 --> 1:40:38.760
<v Speaker 2>my voice if I did, yeah, probably, but like what

1:40:38.880 --> 1:40:43.120
<v Speaker 2>about your soul? You know, so if you're gonna especially

1:40:43.160 --> 1:40:44.519
<v Speaker 2>if you're going to be in it for the long haul,

1:40:44.920 --> 1:40:48.680
<v Speaker 2>like surround yourself with people that don't that love you

1:40:48.720 --> 1:40:50.800
<v Speaker 2>for who you are, not your money, and with people

1:40:50.800 --> 1:40:52.559
<v Speaker 2>that you want to spend time with and be around

1:40:53.600 --> 1:40:55.920
<v Speaker 2>and hang out. Like I there are nights when I'd

1:40:55.960 --> 1:40:58.160
<v Speaker 2>absolutely have to stay in and be good and be quiet,

1:40:58.479 --> 1:41:00.840
<v Speaker 2>But other nights, I'm I need to hang out for

1:41:00.960 --> 1:41:01.320
<v Speaker 2>my heart.

1:41:01.720 --> 1:41:03.599
<v Speaker 3>I think, actually, I think that's really important.

1:41:04.320 --> 1:41:08.639
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's say you're in a legendary place Paris, Rome,

1:41:08.760 --> 1:41:14.439
<v Speaker 1>whether New York in Chicago. Are you someone say I

1:41:14.479 --> 1:41:16.360
<v Speaker 1>am here. I have to get it out of the

1:41:16.400 --> 1:41:18.760
<v Speaker 1>hotel room. I have to go to this museum or

1:41:18.760 --> 1:41:20.360
<v Speaker 1>eat at this restaurant. I mean, I know, if you've

1:41:20.360 --> 1:41:24.760
<v Speaker 1>been around the world and told me I have seen nothing, Okay,

1:41:25.320 --> 1:41:25.720
<v Speaker 1>I like it.

1:41:25.800 --> 1:41:26.639
<v Speaker 3>I like to go see.

1:41:26.920 --> 1:41:29.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I like to get out and I I you know,

1:41:30.000 --> 1:41:32.000
<v Speaker 2>it's not always a big group thing, like I like

1:41:32.080 --> 1:41:36.000
<v Speaker 2>to just go wander. It's hard to think ahead on

1:41:36.080 --> 1:41:39.920
<v Speaker 2>stuff like dinner reservations like I like to you know,

1:41:40.000 --> 1:41:44.160
<v Speaker 2>we get to a place and we've got the afternoon No,

1:41:44.200 --> 1:41:45.679
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to stay in my hotel room usually

1:41:45.720 --> 1:41:48.479
<v Speaker 2>the whole time. I'll just go take a walk, I said,

1:41:48.600 --> 1:41:50.200
<v Speaker 2>I lived in New York for a long time. I'm

1:41:50.200 --> 1:41:53.760
<v Speaker 2>comfortable of being in a city by myself, with my

1:41:53.800 --> 1:41:59.200
<v Speaker 2>hair back and the glasses on. But I like to go,

1:41:59.320 --> 1:42:04.000
<v Speaker 2>like just experience the world, like go go, pretend you

1:42:04.040 --> 1:42:08.240
<v Speaker 2>live there for a minute. I actually find that really fascinating.

1:42:08.240 --> 1:42:10.840
<v Speaker 2>I find other languages fascinating and other culture is fascinating.

1:42:10.920 --> 1:42:12.800
<v Speaker 2>And it's been a real gift to get to travel

1:42:12.840 --> 1:42:15.519
<v Speaker 2>the world. I honestly, we all feel that way. It's

1:42:16.040 --> 1:42:18.679
<v Speaker 2>it feels good to get out and see something outside

1:42:18.720 --> 1:42:19.799
<v Speaker 2>yourself inspiring.

1:42:20.000 --> 1:42:23.720
<v Speaker 1>Where's the coolest place you've been? Mmm? Ah?

1:42:23.840 --> 1:42:26.040
<v Speaker 2>Man, picking one place?

1:42:26.120 --> 1:42:27.240
<v Speaker 1>Oh, you could pick two.

1:42:27.160 --> 1:42:33.960
<v Speaker 2>That's impossible. I mean I mentioned Paris, but I love Paris.

1:42:34.080 --> 1:42:38.960
<v Speaker 2>I love London too. Ah, how do I do that?

1:42:39.800 --> 1:42:41.599
<v Speaker 2>We we've had a lot of fun in South America.

1:42:42.200 --> 1:42:45.040
<v Speaker 1>Well, I was gonna say, for me, if they don't

1:42:45.080 --> 1:42:48.679
<v Speaker 1>speak English, the more exotic, Like I went to Bogata, Man,

1:42:48.720 --> 1:42:49.559
<v Speaker 1>it was so vivid.

1:42:50.800 --> 1:42:54.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we went. We went like ziplining in Costa Rica

1:42:54.040 --> 1:42:56.080
<v Speaker 2>one time. I'll never forget. That was so fun.

1:42:56.320 --> 1:42:59.719
<v Speaker 3>It was so high up, like way above the trees.

1:43:00.320 --> 1:43:03.280
<v Speaker 2>And speaking of Beth, she scared heights and she didn't

1:43:03.280 --> 1:43:04.720
<v Speaker 2>really realize what we were doing until we were up

1:43:04.720 --> 1:43:06.160
<v Speaker 2>there and there was no way down but zip lanning.

1:43:06.200 --> 1:43:11.880
<v Speaker 2>She was discarded for life, like it's completely terrified. I

1:43:11.920 --> 1:43:13.760
<v Speaker 2>was loving it, but also feeling sorry for her.

1:43:14.560 --> 1:43:18.839
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you're in a band, you give it all on stage,

1:43:18.960 --> 1:43:21.240
<v Speaker 1>there's all this love that comes. Then you're with the

1:43:21.240 --> 1:43:24.760
<v Speaker 1>same people you've known for years. It's very hard to

1:43:24.880 --> 1:43:28.720
<v Speaker 1>calm down. How do you deal with sleep when you're

1:43:28.760 --> 1:43:29.800
<v Speaker 1>on the road.

1:43:31.479 --> 1:43:36.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's hard. Sleep is definitely one of the top

1:43:36.800 --> 1:43:40.080
<v Speaker 2>two most important ingredients for having a good voice the

1:43:40.120 --> 1:43:43.080
<v Speaker 2>next day. I know that's going to sound like an

1:43:43.080 --> 1:43:46.200
<v Speaker 2>old lady thing to say, but taking magnesium before bed

1:43:46.320 --> 1:43:48.760
<v Speaker 2>is actually really helpful. I only discovered that in like

1:43:48.800 --> 1:43:51.240
<v Speaker 2>the past five years, and it's it really does something

1:43:51.240 --> 1:43:55.479
<v Speaker 2>for me. I don't have a big answer. It is hard.

1:43:56.280 --> 1:43:59.320
<v Speaker 1>You said, it's a problem. We're in this timeline. Do

1:43:59.360 --> 1:44:02.519
<v Speaker 1>you meet your husban, Well, that's funny.

1:44:02.960 --> 1:44:07.760
<v Speaker 2>A long time ago. I met him around that time,

1:44:07.960 --> 1:44:11.120
<v Speaker 2>like when we were either I don't know if we

1:44:11.120 --> 1:44:13.280
<v Speaker 2>were signed yet and working on it or we were

1:44:13.720 --> 1:44:19.720
<v Speaker 2>about to be in Arkansas, where I'm not really from there.

1:44:19.760 --> 1:44:21.960
<v Speaker 2>We moved around a lot as a family, like my

1:44:22.040 --> 1:44:23.840
<v Speaker 2>dad's radio job took us all over the place. But

1:44:24.080 --> 1:44:27.120
<v Speaker 2>we moved to Arkansas when I was thirteen, and Josh's

1:44:28.000 --> 1:44:30.240
<v Speaker 2>dad was like a superintendent at the school and they

1:44:30.280 --> 1:44:33.759
<v Speaker 2>moved around all the time too. So for this one

1:44:33.920 --> 1:44:35.680
<v Speaker 2>period in both of our lives, we were in the

1:44:35.680 --> 1:44:38.400
<v Speaker 2>same town at the same place, I mean the same

1:44:38.479 --> 1:44:43.960
<v Speaker 2>town at the same time, and we met through a friend.

1:44:44.040 --> 1:44:46.240
<v Speaker 2>Like the friend was actually in the band at the time,

1:44:46.560 --> 1:44:50.400
<v Speaker 2>and it was his like college buddy, and it was

1:44:50.439 --> 1:44:51.680
<v Speaker 2>just one of those things where we didn't know each

1:44:51.680 --> 1:44:56.559
<v Speaker 2>other well, but I liked him and the timing wasn't

1:44:56.640 --> 1:45:00.599
<v Speaker 2>right and actually browed me to life about him. It's

1:45:00.640 --> 1:45:02.599
<v Speaker 2>pretty storied. I don't know how much longer we have.

1:45:02.880 --> 1:45:04.559
<v Speaker 1>We got enough time to tell just a couple of

1:45:04.560 --> 1:45:08.040
<v Speaker 1>these stories. But okay, you meet him at this you know,

1:45:08.080 --> 1:45:10.840
<v Speaker 1>when the stars aligned and you meet him, but then

1:45:10.880 --> 1:45:12.800
<v Speaker 1>you both go your separate ways. How does it end

1:45:12.880 --> 1:45:13.959
<v Speaker 1>up becoming a romance?

1:45:14.600 --> 1:45:20.040
<v Speaker 2>He pursued me and I, well, I should say this

1:45:20.200 --> 1:45:26.559
<v Speaker 2>part like when we were first hanging out, like it

1:45:26.640 --> 1:45:28.000
<v Speaker 2>was one of those things where he came around and

1:45:28.000 --> 1:45:29.519
<v Speaker 2>then he'd be gone for a year because he was

1:45:29.520 --> 1:45:31.880
<v Speaker 2>in college somewhere else, and he came back and I'd say, oh, yeah, hey,

1:45:31.920 --> 1:45:32.439
<v Speaker 2>I remember you.

1:45:32.479 --> 1:45:35.559
<v Speaker 3>Cool, he'd be gone for a while, and when we.

1:45:36.960 --> 1:45:40.920
<v Speaker 2>One of those times, it just I was in an

1:45:40.920 --> 1:45:45.240
<v Speaker 2>abusive relationship and it wasn't anything that I talked about

1:45:45.240 --> 1:45:48.960
<v Speaker 2>with anybody on earth. It was absolutely my private thing.

1:45:49.800 --> 1:45:54.519
<v Speaker 2>And we went to go grab a table at a

1:45:54.560 --> 1:45:58.760
<v Speaker 2>restaurant while the other guys parked the car, and he

1:45:59.160 --> 1:46:00.960
<v Speaker 2>we really didn't know each other very well, and he

1:46:01.080 --> 1:46:03.000
<v Speaker 2>just looked at me and the eyes across the table

1:46:03.000 --> 1:46:07.479
<v Speaker 2>and was like, so are you happy? And it just

1:46:07.720 --> 1:46:10.240
<v Speaker 2>sent this like shock wave down into my heart and

1:46:10.280 --> 1:46:12.680
<v Speaker 2>my heart started beating fast, and I just felt like

1:46:12.960 --> 1:46:14.960
<v Speaker 2>he knew something.

1:46:15.040 --> 1:46:16.479
<v Speaker 3>And I don't think he really did.

1:46:16.520 --> 1:46:18.640
<v Speaker 2>I think he was just being nice and he was

1:46:18.800 --> 1:46:21.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, he's a mental health counselor, so he's just

1:46:21.800 --> 1:46:25.200
<v Speaker 2>talking to me, but I don't know. I just sort

1:46:25.240 --> 1:46:27.200
<v Speaker 2>of malfunctioned it didn't give him a great answer, and

1:46:27.479 --> 1:46:29.760
<v Speaker 2>stalled until people came in. But it stuck with me,

1:46:30.960 --> 1:46:32.920
<v Speaker 2>and it made me kind of realize my own feelings

1:46:32.960 --> 1:46:37.240
<v Speaker 2>about how I wasn't and then I just started writing

1:46:37.840 --> 1:46:39.519
<v Speaker 2>the beginning of every Redy to Life, how can you

1:46:39.600 --> 1:46:41.720
<v Speaker 2>see into my eyes? Like open doors like and all

1:46:41.760 --> 1:46:44.760
<v Speaker 2>of that, and then he was gone again. You know.

1:46:45.000 --> 1:46:46.519
<v Speaker 3>It was just like this person in the back of

1:46:46.520 --> 1:46:47.679
<v Speaker 3>my mind and he was in another.

1:46:47.520 --> 1:46:51.320
<v Speaker 2>Relationship and I was in a relationship, and yeah, he

1:46:51.400 --> 1:46:54.800
<v Speaker 2>just he just kept calling me, like a year later, like.

1:46:55.439 --> 1:46:56.160
<v Speaker 3>Hey, I'm in town.

1:46:56.240 --> 1:46:58.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, how did this guy get my number? Like

1:46:58.160 --> 1:47:00.960
<v Speaker 2>I didn't even save your number, Like, please don't call

1:47:01.000 --> 1:47:03.439
<v Speaker 2>me because I knew I liked him. And it was

1:47:03.479 --> 1:47:05.200
<v Speaker 2>always like I'm not gonna I don't I don't have

1:47:05.280 --> 1:47:07.320
<v Speaker 2>an energy for this. I can't deal with this person,

1:47:07.439 --> 1:47:09.360
<v Speaker 2>like I don't I don't want to see you because

1:47:09.360 --> 1:47:09.800
<v Speaker 2>I like you.

1:47:10.960 --> 1:47:12.680
<v Speaker 3>And he's like, hey, I'm leaving town. You know, we're

1:47:12.680 --> 1:47:13.320
<v Speaker 3>gonna see.

1:47:13.120 --> 1:47:15.519
<v Speaker 2>Me, and we hooked up and it was just forever.

1:47:15.640 --> 1:47:18.920
<v Speaker 2>I was like, okay, fine, just finally gave in. But

1:47:19.240 --> 1:47:22.560
<v Speaker 2>like before all that, like I remember telling him and

1:47:22.680 --> 1:47:25.559
<v Speaker 2>like a mic drop ridiculous, very juvenile kind of way

1:47:25.560 --> 1:47:26.840
<v Speaker 2>that I wrote Bring Me to Life about him, right

1:47:26.800 --> 1:47:29.439
<v Speaker 2>before it came out, was like we were going it

1:47:29.439 --> 1:47:32.160
<v Speaker 2>was during that pre pro time in La and we

1:47:32.160 --> 1:47:34.320
<v Speaker 2>were going to go pick up like taco bell or

1:47:34.360 --> 1:47:37.719
<v Speaker 2>something for everybody, Baha Fresh probably, and we come back

1:47:38.320 --> 1:47:40.519
<v Speaker 2>and it was like okay, thanks bye, you know, when

1:47:40.520 --> 1:47:42.479
<v Speaker 2>he was leaving town again, and I grabbed the stuff

1:47:43.600 --> 1:47:47.240
<v Speaker 2>and like I was halfway out the door and I

1:47:47.320 --> 1:47:49.120
<v Speaker 2>just dropped it on him. I was like, hey, listen,

1:47:49.240 --> 1:47:50.760
<v Speaker 2>because Bring Me Life was going to be the single,

1:47:50.920 --> 1:47:52.559
<v Speaker 2>was the one that all the focus from the label

1:47:52.560 --> 1:47:53.920
<v Speaker 2>and everything we were doing was all about bring Me

1:47:53.960 --> 1:47:57.240
<v Speaker 2>to Life. And I was like, listen, I just I

1:47:57.280 --> 1:47:59.439
<v Speaker 2>just feel like I should tell you, like I just

1:47:59.479 --> 1:48:02.640
<v Speaker 2>wanted you to know I wrote me to I mean,

1:48:02.640 --> 1:48:04.960
<v Speaker 2>like I don't feel this way now, but I did

1:48:04.960 --> 1:48:06.439
<v Speaker 2>write bring Me to Life about that one time in

1:48:06.479 --> 1:48:09.160
<v Speaker 2>the restaurant when you asked me if I was happy,

1:48:09.680 --> 1:48:11.720
<v Speaker 2>and I just want you to know that. But I

1:48:11.720 --> 1:48:13.639
<v Speaker 2>got out of the car and closed the door before

1:48:13.680 --> 1:48:16.160
<v Speaker 2>he could say anything, and I was reversy in his

1:48:16.240 --> 1:48:20.960
<v Speaker 2>face in the window, like like looking like searching for

1:48:21.000 --> 1:48:23.360
<v Speaker 2>words to say something, and couldn't think of anything to say.

1:48:23.720 --> 1:48:25.280
<v Speaker 2>And then time went by again and I didn't see

1:48:25.360 --> 1:48:28.400
<v Speaker 2>him for like another six months or something. This is

1:48:28.600 --> 1:48:31.680
<v Speaker 2>really weird and then finally he called me and it

1:48:31.720 --> 1:48:33.360
<v Speaker 2>was just like like I told you before, Like the

1:48:33.360 --> 1:48:36.479
<v Speaker 2>timing was finally like, okay, I give in. So we've

1:48:36.479 --> 1:48:41.040
<v Speaker 2>been married for eighteen years.

1:48:45.600 --> 1:48:49.680
<v Speaker 1>Okay. When he then called you, you have some success

1:48:50.400 --> 1:48:55.479
<v Speaker 1>at that point, right, So at what point does it

1:48:55.520 --> 1:48:57.519
<v Speaker 1>become a one on one thing and what point do

1:48:57.560 --> 1:48:58.200
<v Speaker 1>you get married?

1:49:00.240 --> 1:49:02.000
<v Speaker 2>It was a one on one thing. As soon as

1:49:02.040 --> 1:49:06.120
<v Speaker 2>I saw him that time. He reached out like it

1:49:06.200 --> 1:49:08.519
<v Speaker 2>was right at the end of like another relationship, and

1:49:08.560 --> 1:49:11.599
<v Speaker 2>I was still just like I was still in the

1:49:11.640 --> 1:49:13.320
<v Speaker 2>sadness of the breakup. That's why I was like, oh,

1:49:13.320 --> 1:49:14.040
<v Speaker 2>I'm not ready for this.

1:49:14.720 --> 1:49:15.559
<v Speaker 3>But you know, we.

1:49:15.520 --> 1:49:17.639
<v Speaker 2>Saw each other and it was literally like that night,

1:49:17.800 --> 1:49:20.000
<v Speaker 2>it was like, dude, I'd like you a lot. I

1:49:20.040 --> 1:49:24.840
<v Speaker 2>don't know. It was kind of instant, but it was

1:49:24.880 --> 1:49:27.439
<v Speaker 2>different because like with him, it was never like that

1:49:27.479 --> 1:49:33.120
<v Speaker 2>about the famous part that wasn't yeah, yeah, exactly.

1:49:33.520 --> 1:49:38.320
<v Speaker 1>Okay, but you say, now you're going and disappearing for

1:49:38.360 --> 1:49:44.560
<v Speaker 1>all this time. Yeah, so how does does it sustain

1:49:45.320 --> 1:49:48.880
<v Speaker 1>and then continue and then lead to marriage.

1:49:49.120 --> 1:49:52.560
<v Speaker 2>Well, when we got together, that's when I moved to

1:49:52.600 --> 1:49:55.439
<v Speaker 2>New York. He was in New York and we were

1:49:55.439 --> 1:49:57.559
<v Speaker 2>talking about how we could be around each other.

1:49:57.439 --> 1:50:00.519
<v Speaker 1>And move to New York because he was New York.

1:50:00.920 --> 1:50:03.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, and I did. So that was that was

1:50:03.760 --> 1:50:08.439
<v Speaker 2>after falling. But at this point, it was when I

1:50:08.479 --> 1:50:13.760
<v Speaker 2>was writing for the Open Door and he was like,

1:50:13.960 --> 1:50:15.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, I'll come to La I can move there.

1:50:15.680 --> 1:50:17.320
<v Speaker 2>I I'll do it, you know whatever. And I was like,

1:50:17.320 --> 1:50:19.120
<v Speaker 2>please don't. I don't want to be here. I'm tired

1:50:19.160 --> 1:50:23.080
<v Speaker 2>of this down I had visited him before. I was like,

1:50:23.120 --> 1:50:25.800
<v Speaker 2>I'd rather come to you. Like everything that I'm doing

1:50:25.840 --> 1:50:27.840
<v Speaker 2>I can probably do from anywhere. Like, I don't have

1:50:27.920 --> 1:50:29.960
<v Speaker 2>to be here. I was here before, you know, because

1:50:29.960 --> 1:50:31.680
<v Speaker 2>we were trying to make it, but we made it now,

1:50:31.800 --> 1:50:33.880
<v Speaker 2>Like I think I can probably live wherever I want.

1:50:35.080 --> 1:50:38.320
<v Speaker 2>So I moved to New York and really fell in

1:50:38.320 --> 1:50:40.439
<v Speaker 2>love with New York. You know I was. I was

1:50:40.439 --> 1:50:42.280
<v Speaker 2>falling in love with him. It was kind of all

1:50:42.280 --> 1:50:43.559
<v Speaker 2>wrapped up. I miss it very much.

1:50:44.640 --> 1:50:47.520
<v Speaker 1>Okay, what does he do all day?

1:50:48.120 --> 1:50:49.680
<v Speaker 2>Well, at this point, he spends most of his time

1:50:49.760 --> 1:50:52.280
<v Speaker 2>making it, making this possible, and taking care of her baby.

1:50:53.040 --> 1:50:59.759
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so how long after that moment when you say

1:50:59.760 --> 1:51:02.439
<v Speaker 1>that leave the car do you get married?

1:51:04.640 --> 1:51:06.000
<v Speaker 3>We dated for a year and a half.

1:51:06.640 --> 1:51:10.040
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so we got married in seven relatively soon.

1:51:10.439 --> 1:51:12.719
<v Speaker 1>How did you decide to have a child, or maybe

1:51:12.720 --> 1:51:13.479
<v Speaker 1>you didn't decide.

1:51:14.600 --> 1:51:17.839
<v Speaker 2>We always knew that we wanted that, but we actually

1:51:18.360 --> 1:51:21.040
<v Speaker 2>we waited. So we hung out and had a nice

1:51:21.040 --> 1:51:22.839
<v Speaker 2>time for seven years before going there.

1:51:24.479 --> 1:51:25.160
<v Speaker 3>And it was fun.

1:51:25.200 --> 1:51:29.160
<v Speaker 2>But like we all, we always knew that we wanted

1:51:29.360 --> 1:51:31.280
<v Speaker 2>a child if that was going to be possible for us,

1:51:31.280 --> 1:51:35.000
<v Speaker 2>and there was nothing but excitement and happiness when that

1:51:35.040 --> 1:51:38.200
<v Speaker 2>finally happened. We waited for a while though, we were like,

1:51:38.560 --> 1:51:41.320
<v Speaker 2>come on, let's go, let's be kids before we have

1:51:41.360 --> 1:51:41.679
<v Speaker 2>the kid.

1:51:42.720 --> 1:51:46.560
<v Speaker 1>Let's go back to Arkansas. I grew up in the northeast.

1:51:46.600 --> 1:51:51.599
<v Speaker 1>We're very judgmental Arkansas in our minds. Ultimately, Bill Clinton

1:51:51.680 --> 1:51:54.639
<v Speaker 1>came from Arkansas. But explain Arkansas to me.

1:51:55.720 --> 1:52:00.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean I before Arkansas, I was, uh, we

1:52:00.960 --> 1:52:07.800
<v Speaker 2>were living in Rockford, Illinois, and I was, yeah it

1:52:07.840 --> 1:52:13.759
<v Speaker 2>was I thought Rockford was cool and I was just yeah, exactly,

1:52:14.479 --> 1:52:14.960
<v Speaker 2>and I was.

1:52:15.040 --> 1:52:16.720
<v Speaker 3>And my dad worked at the cool station that year,

1:52:16.920 --> 1:52:17.880
<v Speaker 3>like he was at.

1:52:17.760 --> 1:52:22.280
<v Speaker 2>Like, uh, the pop rock actually playing Cats in the

1:52:22.280 --> 1:52:25.240
<v Speaker 2>Cradle and stuff like that. Really funny like talking point later,

1:52:26.320 --> 1:52:29.800
<v Speaker 2>but moving to Arkansas was like devastating to me, Like

1:52:29.920 --> 1:52:34.799
<v Speaker 2>I absolutely hated the idea was so cringe, and also

1:52:34.880 --> 1:52:36.880
<v Speaker 2>I didn't know anybody. Just like happing to start over

1:52:36.960 --> 1:52:40.320
<v Speaker 2>when you're kind of starting to become a teenager is the.

1:52:40.240 --> 1:52:43.400
<v Speaker 3>Most horrible, just horrible feeling. I did not want to go.

1:52:44.320 --> 1:52:47.040
<v Speaker 2>So yes, I I tend to agree with your feeling

1:52:47.120 --> 1:52:50.240
<v Speaker 2>on that going into it, But I mean that as

1:52:50.360 --> 1:52:52.400
<v Speaker 2>kind of paid off because there was nothing to do

1:52:53.280 --> 1:52:55.479
<v Speaker 2>and I didn't have any friends at first, you know,

1:52:55.600 --> 1:52:58.160
<v Speaker 2>and I was just like the new weird kid and

1:52:58.479 --> 1:53:03.320
<v Speaker 2>like you know, thirty, so felt like everything about myself

1:53:03.360 --> 1:53:07.679
<v Speaker 2>was stupid and awkward and embarrassing. And I just leaned

1:53:07.720 --> 1:53:12.840
<v Speaker 2>way into like the poetry and the music, and you know,

1:53:13.040 --> 1:53:17.479
<v Speaker 2>found my awesome piano teacher, Missus Twombly and choir, got

1:53:17.560 --> 1:53:20.559
<v Speaker 2>really really into choir and not art nerds and stuff.

1:53:20.600 --> 1:53:23.960
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, being an Arkansas meant that you have to

1:53:24.040 --> 1:53:26.519
<v Speaker 2>make your own fun and starting a band and all

1:53:26.560 --> 1:53:28.680
<v Speaker 2>that stuff. It all really came out of Like it

1:53:28.720 --> 1:53:30.599
<v Speaker 2>wasn't like there was so much stuff to do.

1:53:30.960 --> 1:53:36.240
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you've lived in New York. Time keeps marching on

1:53:36.280 --> 1:53:38.479
<v Speaker 1>the internet, cable TV, every It's not the same like

1:53:38.520 --> 1:53:42.439
<v Speaker 1>it used to be. But give me your take on Arkansas.

1:53:42.960 --> 1:53:46.639
<v Speaker 2>Well, I love going back there now to visit my parents.

1:53:46.680 --> 1:53:49.200
<v Speaker 2>They settled there and they'd live kind of in the

1:53:49.200 --> 1:53:54.040
<v Speaker 2>woods and it's really peaceful. And you know, obviously by

1:53:54.080 --> 1:53:55.599
<v Speaker 2>now too, I have so many memories there.

1:53:56.280 --> 1:53:58.599
<v Speaker 1>Okay, how do you decide to move from New York

1:53:58.640 --> 1:53:59.440
<v Speaker 1>to Nashville.

1:54:01.600 --> 1:54:06.559
<v Speaker 2>Well, after my brother passed away, my family, so to

1:54:06.680 --> 1:54:12.200
<v Speaker 2>drive there from here is like five hours. And actually

1:54:12.920 --> 1:54:15.000
<v Speaker 2>it's just one of those things, like I love New

1:54:15.080 --> 1:54:16.240
<v Speaker 2>York so much, like just.

1:54:17.680 --> 1:54:19.160
<v Speaker 3>It's hard to sum.

1:54:19.040 --> 1:54:21.400
<v Speaker 1>Up, but it's a hard place to live.

1:54:22.960 --> 1:54:23.559
<v Speaker 3>It can be.

1:54:24.000 --> 1:54:27.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, some days it kicks your ass, but there's

1:54:27.400 --> 1:54:32.560
<v Speaker 2>always something going on, Like there's inspiration everywhere. And I

1:54:32.640 --> 1:54:37.120
<v Speaker 2>never felt lonely, Like it's hard to explain. And I

1:54:37.160 --> 1:54:41.280
<v Speaker 2>also having grown up like being in Arkansas, Like as

1:54:41.280 --> 1:54:43.600
<v Speaker 2>a teenager, I always felt weird. I always felt like

1:54:43.600 --> 1:54:46.200
<v Speaker 2>the weird one. You don't feel like that in New York.

1:54:46.360 --> 1:54:48.400
<v Speaker 2>I never felt like that. I always felt like I

1:54:48.480 --> 1:54:51.200
<v Speaker 2>was exactly in just a world with a whole lot

1:54:51.240 --> 1:54:55.320
<v Speaker 2>of other people, and everybody was different, and nobody was

1:54:55.360 --> 1:54:59.640
<v Speaker 2>looking at me for wearing weird. Giant fuzzy shoes or

1:54:59.680 --> 1:55:04.640
<v Speaker 2>whatever stupid thing having black hair. So I felt like

1:55:04.720 --> 1:55:06.480
<v Speaker 2>a real sense of belonging to New York, like I

1:55:06.480 --> 1:55:07.520
<v Speaker 2>didn't feel anywhere else.

1:55:07.880 --> 1:55:10.440
<v Speaker 3>But after my brother passed away.

1:55:10.360 --> 1:55:14.000
<v Speaker 2>It was like all that magic, all the inspiration and

1:55:14.040 --> 1:55:15.520
<v Speaker 2>all those things about New York that I loved so

1:55:15.600 --> 1:55:19.280
<v Speaker 2>much just didn't seem as important as being together with

1:55:19.320 --> 1:55:22.520
<v Speaker 2>my family and being close to them. Just felt like

1:55:22.640 --> 1:55:26.120
<v Speaker 2>time was passing and was precious and going home, you know,

1:55:26.160 --> 1:55:28.360
<v Speaker 2>to Arkansas from New York is it's a hassle. You're

1:55:28.360 --> 1:55:30.440
<v Speaker 2>taking two flights. You know, you stay for your chunk

1:55:30.440 --> 1:55:31.880
<v Speaker 2>of time and then you go home. It's not kind

1:55:31.880 --> 1:55:34.280
<v Speaker 2>of like you can pop over anytime. And I guess

1:55:34.280 --> 1:55:35.880
<v Speaker 2>it's not really like that here either, but it is

1:55:35.920 --> 1:55:37.800
<v Speaker 2>more like we could just get in the car. So

1:55:38.720 --> 1:55:40.560
<v Speaker 2>I just I was just done. I just I just

1:55:40.600 --> 1:55:42.480
<v Speaker 2>wanted to be close to my family really bad right then.

1:55:42.800 --> 1:55:45.160
<v Speaker 2>That was the real reason. And also, you know, we

1:55:45.200 --> 1:55:48.680
<v Speaker 2>found a place here where the studio like is in

1:55:48.760 --> 1:55:51.400
<v Speaker 2>the it's separated from the house, like it's in the back,

1:55:51.480 --> 1:55:53.040
<v Speaker 2>like it's like the pool house or whatever.

1:55:53.520 --> 1:55:54.240
<v Speaker 3>And in New.

1:55:54.160 --> 1:55:56.960
<v Speaker 2>York once, you know, when it was just us, it

1:55:57.040 --> 1:55:59.600
<v Speaker 2>was one thing, but once there's like a baby sleeping,

1:56:00.120 --> 1:56:02.600
<v Speaker 2>I can't like sing late at night and do my

1:56:02.760 --> 1:56:05.080
<v Speaker 2>thing like I really need to and feel like nobody

1:56:05.080 --> 1:56:06.640
<v Speaker 2>can hear me or it doesn't matter.

1:56:07.960 --> 1:56:09.240
<v Speaker 3>It was it was harder.

1:56:09.640 --> 1:56:11.520
<v Speaker 2>So the idea of moving to a place where I

1:56:11.560 --> 1:56:14.480
<v Speaker 2>could have my like studio structure and scream at the

1:56:14.480 --> 1:56:15.920
<v Speaker 2>top of my lungs at three in the morning and

1:56:16.280 --> 1:56:18.760
<v Speaker 2>sound like shit and not feel like anybody's judging me

1:56:18.880 --> 1:56:22.240
<v Speaker 2>or anything, I just completely alone. Was It really has

1:56:22.360 --> 1:56:26.800
<v Speaker 2>been an incredible thing to feel the space here. So

1:56:27.280 --> 1:56:28.840
<v Speaker 2>both of those reasons, mainly I want to be close

1:56:28.840 --> 1:56:31.800
<v Speaker 2>to family, but also it's cool to have a space

1:56:31.920 --> 1:56:35.320
<v Speaker 2>like this. And it was lucky too because pandemic hit

1:56:35.400 --> 1:56:36.240
<v Speaker 2>right after we moved.

1:56:36.960 --> 1:56:40.960
<v Speaker 1>Nashville is not the only place closed to little rock

1:56:41.280 --> 1:56:44.360
<v Speaker 1>and Nasha is a big music city, that's.

1:56:44.200 --> 1:56:48.480
<v Speaker 2>Right, yes, And we actually we've been rehearsing here. We've

1:56:48.920 --> 1:56:51.640
<v Speaker 2>we've rehearded. This has been our spot to get together

1:56:51.720 --> 1:56:55.520
<v Speaker 2>and work and record and rehearse for a long time.

1:56:55.560 --> 1:56:58.280
<v Speaker 2>And we're spread out all over the country at this point.

1:56:58.280 --> 1:57:01.720
<v Speaker 2>I've got one in California, to in Florida, one in Atlanta,

1:57:02.360 --> 1:57:04.840
<v Speaker 2>and now I'm here, so our stuff's here.

1:57:05.200 --> 1:57:05.920
<v Speaker 3>I run down to.

1:57:06.200 --> 1:57:08.919
<v Speaker 2>Our rehearsal space all the time and like grab a keyboard,

1:57:09.200 --> 1:57:11.160
<v Speaker 2>come back here and go, Like I get to leave

1:57:11.160 --> 1:57:12.080
<v Speaker 2>two days later for tour.

1:57:12.120 --> 1:57:15.960
<v Speaker 1>It's the best, Okay, But Nashville used to be country

1:57:16.000 --> 1:57:20.440
<v Speaker 1>people twenty years ago, people in La studio, musicians, other people.

1:57:20.480 --> 1:57:21.760
<v Speaker 1>They all moved to Nashville.

1:57:21.880 --> 1:57:26.680
<v Speaker 4>Then everybody moved to Nashville. So now are you Amy

1:57:26.760 --> 1:57:30.160
<v Speaker 4>Lee in your house and it's Nashville. It could be Knoxville,

1:57:30.320 --> 1:57:34.960
<v Speaker 4>it could be you know, Chattanooga, or are you intersecting.

1:57:34.320 --> 1:57:35.920
<v Speaker 1>With what's going on in Nashville.

1:57:37.040 --> 1:57:39.640
<v Speaker 2>Uh? Well, I have a lot of friends here, like

1:57:39.640 --> 1:57:42.600
<v Speaker 2>like more than half of our Brooklyn community moved here

1:57:42.640 --> 1:57:45.000
<v Speaker 2>before we did, Like we were some of those music once.

1:57:45.240 --> 1:57:48.920
<v Speaker 2>We're not music people, ah friends, Yeah, most of them

1:57:48.960 --> 1:57:51.760
<v Speaker 2>are music people. We've got some really close I don't

1:57:51.800 --> 1:57:54.600
<v Speaker 2>know if you know their bands. We have some close

1:57:54.600 --> 1:57:57.880
<v Speaker 2>friends that are the Lone Bellow. They're really good Zach Williams,

1:57:57.920 --> 1:58:00.880
<v Speaker 2>and we've been friends with them forever. They were one

1:58:00.920 --> 1:58:04.360
<v Speaker 2>of like our close family friends. We've got another music

1:58:04.400 --> 1:58:07.520
<v Speaker 2>industry family friends that were very close with that moved

1:58:07.520 --> 1:58:11.480
<v Speaker 2>here first. So and Beth live's here also, so it's

1:58:11.520 --> 1:58:13.760
<v Speaker 2>like we already have like a community of friends there.

1:58:13.880 --> 1:58:15.440
<v Speaker 2>That was the other thing that made it safe. Yeah,

1:58:15.440 --> 1:58:17.160
<v Speaker 2>we didn't just pick a random town. It was kind

1:58:17.200 --> 1:58:19.480
<v Speaker 2>of what was given to us. Like, look, this is

1:58:19.480 --> 1:58:22.080
<v Speaker 2>where your people are. Just go be with your people,

1:58:22.200 --> 1:58:25.000
<v Speaker 2>because that's really the truth. Home is where your heart is, Like,

1:58:25.120 --> 1:58:26.080
<v Speaker 2>that's where your family is.

1:58:26.600 --> 1:58:31.400
<v Speaker 1>Uh okay, pulling back as we said earlier, the landscape

1:58:31.480 --> 1:58:35.040
<v Speaker 1>is changed. You can shoot somebody in the morning, it's

1:58:35.080 --> 1:58:38.520
<v Speaker 1>not in the news the next day. Do you say

1:58:38.800 --> 1:58:42.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm an artist, I just create and do what I want.

1:58:42.680 --> 1:58:46.240
<v Speaker 1>Or are you psychologically managing your career all the time?

1:58:46.600 --> 1:58:48.960
<v Speaker 1>Are you saying, well, you know, I haven't been in

1:58:49.000 --> 1:58:51.680
<v Speaker 1>the public sphere, or I need to come back. They're

1:58:51.680 --> 1:58:55.080
<v Speaker 1>going to forget me. What's your attitude about the whole thing.

1:58:56.680 --> 1:58:58.720
<v Speaker 2>I don't think about that side of it too much,

1:58:58.960 --> 1:59:01.120
<v Speaker 2>Like what do I want want to present? What I

1:59:01.160 --> 1:59:03.200
<v Speaker 2>want to project? As far as like staying in it

1:59:03.240 --> 1:59:05.160
<v Speaker 2>and striking while all the iron so hot, I've kind

1:59:05.160 --> 1:59:07.000
<v Speaker 2>of broken all those rules enough to where I don't

1:59:07.000 --> 1:59:10.400
<v Speaker 2>care about it anymore. I have found in my own

1:59:10.480 --> 1:59:14.360
<v Speaker 2>experience that I can disappear for a few years and

1:59:14.440 --> 1:59:17.240
<v Speaker 2>come back when I have something great to say and

1:59:18.360 --> 1:59:20.600
<v Speaker 2>if the music's good enough that people will show up

1:59:20.640 --> 1:59:23.680
<v Speaker 2>for it. We have really cool fans and they a

1:59:23.760 --> 1:59:27.040
<v Speaker 2>lot of them have really just been around. And I

1:59:27.040 --> 1:59:30.760
<v Speaker 2>will say too, like artists that I love and I

1:59:30.880 --> 1:59:33.160
<v Speaker 2>have been really inspired by my life, a lot of

1:59:33.200 --> 1:59:35.800
<v Speaker 2>them do that. They don't put out an album every

1:59:35.880 --> 1:59:39.400
<v Speaker 2>year like one of my top bands, as Porta said,

1:59:39.880 --> 1:59:42.040
<v Speaker 2>they have only made a handful of albums and each

1:59:42.040 --> 1:59:44.680
<v Speaker 2>one is so good and special to me and worth

1:59:44.720 --> 1:59:46.880
<v Speaker 2>the wait. And I never stopped being a fan or

1:59:46.920 --> 1:59:48.920
<v Speaker 2>loving them in all those years that they weren't around,

1:59:49.480 --> 1:59:51.880
<v Speaker 2>Like I just I've found out the good news. One

1:59:51.920 --> 1:59:53.160
<v Speaker 2>day they were coming out with the new album and

1:59:53.160 --> 1:59:55.400
<v Speaker 2>I went and picked it up. So I feel like

1:59:55.920 --> 1:59:58.120
<v Speaker 2>I don't care about that part of it obviously. The

1:59:58.880 --> 2:00:01.240
<v Speaker 2>thing about that now that is in my heart is

2:00:01.280 --> 2:00:04.960
<v Speaker 2>about life and how long is my life? And you know,

2:00:05.280 --> 2:00:07.840
<v Speaker 2>like that thought of like how long do I really

2:00:07.880 --> 2:00:08.360
<v Speaker 2>have where.

2:00:08.160 --> 2:00:09.720
<v Speaker 3>We can keep doing this?

2:00:10.040 --> 2:00:14.560
<v Speaker 2>And it is very life giving to me in this time,

2:00:14.960 --> 2:00:16.560
<v Speaker 2>like it is giving me life.

2:00:16.640 --> 2:00:17.440
<v Speaker 3>I feel happy.

2:00:17.520 --> 2:00:20.680
<v Speaker 2>I feel like when I'm working on something, that's when

2:00:20.720 --> 2:00:24.040
<v Speaker 2>I feel the best. I really do, like I can't

2:00:24.040 --> 2:00:26.440
<v Speaker 2>just sit around and do nothing. I feel like this

2:00:27.080 --> 2:00:28.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm good at. This is what I was born to do.

2:00:28.720 --> 2:00:30.560
<v Speaker 2>It gives me joy, it gives other people joy. I

2:00:30.640 --> 2:00:33.560
<v Speaker 2>want to do it. So now there's an urgency for

2:00:33.600 --> 2:00:37.400
<v Speaker 2>me that isn't really about my career what I want

2:00:37.440 --> 2:00:40.600
<v Speaker 2>to do. I've done that. I feel pretty satisfied honestly

2:00:40.800 --> 2:00:44.240
<v Speaker 2>with what we've done. But it's coming from a place

2:00:44.400 --> 2:00:48.280
<v Speaker 2>of I guess just it's existential. It's like, I don't

2:00:48.320 --> 2:00:49.920
<v Speaker 2>know how long we have and I love doing it

2:00:49.960 --> 2:00:52.120
<v Speaker 2>and I want joy in my life, and let's go.

2:00:52.200 --> 2:00:54.800
<v Speaker 2>Let's hurry up because who knows what comes tomorrow.

2:00:55.640 --> 2:00:59.400
<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's well put. But you've had amazing success.

2:01:00.280 --> 2:01:04.360
<v Speaker 1>Is there any holy grail or something beyond this that

2:01:04.400 --> 2:01:07.640
<v Speaker 1>you want to achieve or is it more like you said,

2:01:07.640 --> 2:01:09.600
<v Speaker 1>with the extential thing, I just want to produce.

2:01:13.720 --> 2:01:16.920
<v Speaker 2>It'd be cool to win another Grammy with my band now,

2:01:17.760 --> 2:01:21.120
<v Speaker 2>like the band that we've become, not the kids that

2:01:21.520 --> 2:01:23.840
<v Speaker 2>were just starting out and everything has changed since then.

2:01:24.320 --> 2:01:27.160
<v Speaker 2>Just scraping the surface. That would be cool. I would

2:01:27.200 --> 2:01:30.720
<v Speaker 2>love that for us. It also be cool to go

2:01:30.760 --> 2:01:32.200
<v Speaker 2>on SNL. I don't know why I've never done that.

2:01:34.440 --> 2:01:38.560
<v Speaker 2>But like I can't say, I honestly can't tell you

2:01:38.600 --> 2:01:42.160
<v Speaker 2>that I'm like striving and driving towards winning any award.

2:01:42.880 --> 2:01:46.520
<v Speaker 2>Like that's not really what I'm not trying to sound cool,

2:01:46.600 --> 2:01:49.840
<v Speaker 2>that's not really why I'm in it. There's a satisfaction

2:01:49.880 --> 2:01:51.720
<v Speaker 2>that's just a lot bigger than that. But that would

2:01:51.760 --> 2:01:52.640
<v Speaker 2>be cool. I would love that.

2:01:54.320 --> 2:01:58.040
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Amy, thanks so much for being honest, forth right,

2:01:58.080 --> 2:02:01.400
<v Speaker 1>and open, very verbal. I know you can turn it

2:02:01.440 --> 2:02:03.120
<v Speaker 1>on when there are people there and other times you

2:02:03.160 --> 2:02:05.080
<v Speaker 1>have to be in your own mind. But in any event,

2:02:05.160 --> 2:02:06.760
<v Speaker 1>I want to thank you so much for taking this

2:02:06.840 --> 2:02:07.919
<v Speaker 1>time with my audience.

2:02:08.960 --> 2:02:10.160
<v Speaker 3>Thank you for taking the time.

2:02:10.240 --> 2:02:13.440
<v Speaker 2>I've been your fan for quite a while and was

2:02:13.480 --> 2:02:15.160
<v Speaker 2>excited when I heard that you wanted to talk to me.

2:02:15.440 --> 2:02:16.800
<v Speaker 3>So thanks for taking the time.

2:02:16.840 --> 2:02:19.400
<v Speaker 1>I was excited wanted to talk to me in any

2:02:19.440 --> 2:02:23.080
<v Speaker 1>of them until next time. This is Bob left sets