WEBVTT - BREAKING: Killer Mom Trial: FUMING Judge Nearly Declares Mistrial! 0:00:02.200 --> 0:00:05.720 Hey folks, it is Monday, August twenty fourth, and a 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:10.360 breaking update on the triple murder trial of Lindsey Clancy. 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:14.680 We just came oh so close to a mistrial and 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:19.360 this judge is pissed with that. Welcome again to this 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:22.439 breaking episode of Amy and TJ. We just got this 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:25.239 news rope. We just watched this play out, I mean, hell, 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:28.160 five minutes before we hopped on the mics. Here robes. 0:00:28.280 --> 0:00:30.920 This came close and a lot of people almost surprised 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:32.680 this was not declared a mistrial. 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:37.080 Yeah, as you mentioned, the judge was as angry as 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:41.000 I have ever seen him, and the defense attorney, Kevin 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:45.680 Reddington even said he was reluctantly asking for a mistrial 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:48.879 but felt like he needed to because of the line 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:54.600 of testimony and it was all about morality, about Catholic dogma. 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:58.320 And look, this is not something to play around with 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:01.720 when you are talking about a woman and they are trying, 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:04.720 the prosecution trying to tell jurors that she knew right 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:09.120 from wrong, that her Catholic upbringing even was a part 0:01:09.200 --> 0:01:11.959 of that conversation. And you have a forensic psychiatrist who 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:14.800 is not trained in theology, who is not trained in 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:18.680 Catholicism offering an opinion or beginning to offer an opinion 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:23.479 about Catholic dogma. And that was a huge notice, Ruth. 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:26.240 He offered an opinion, but it's one that the prosecution 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:30.119 has already been scolded for. Last week, robes To used 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:35.480 some of the same language about mortal sin. The same 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:38.520 phrase came out, and it came out last week, and 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:42.319 it was her mama's Lindsey was her mom or mother? 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:46.319 It was her mother, her mother right. Prosecution asked her 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:49.600 about being a Catholic and said, are you aware that 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:51.360 murders a mortal sin? 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:52.840 So is suicide? 0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:57.040 Immediate objection. Everybody calls to the side. The judge is pissed. 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:02.560 Robes when that phrase came up again today, Reddington, you 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:05.559 know how quick he is the defense attorney. He didn't 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:08.280 even get a chance to object before the judge. His 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:11.680 chair is turning around, he's slammed a table. Let me see. 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:16.760 Everybody rooks it it look and this is something in 0:02:16.840 --> 0:02:19.239 the Boston area. I just I think most people I 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:20.840 don't know, maybe you don't know. I mean I was 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:25.040 raised Catholic. That area is a very Catholic area of 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:28.320 this country, and a you don't mess with religion, but 0:02:28.360 --> 0:02:30.480 you don't bring it or invoke it when it comes 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:34.800 to determining state of mind. And it seemed so wildly 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:38.440 inappropriate last week, especially when you're addressing Lindsay Clancy's own 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:41.799 mother about her Catholic upbringing, about her Catholic awareness. And yes, 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:44.520 suicide is considered a mortal sin. All of us who 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:47.600 went through Catholic school and CCD classes and went to 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:49.720 Catholic church, we all know we're taught this from a 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:53.120 very early age. Suicide is a mortal sin. Obviously, so 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:57.560 is homicide or murder. But to bring that up in 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:01.919 the context of knowing right from wrong is such a 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:05.600 blurred line between. If we're talking about psychiatry about whether 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:08.000 or not someone has a mental illness, how does their 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:10.520 religion or how they were raised have anything to do 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:13.880 with your mental capacity to know right from wrong. 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:18.200 So it was unfair, it's mistrangworthy. It might have been 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:21.160 after the first one. But what's happened now, Robes is 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:24.799 twice the exact same phrase has come up. That has 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:27.440 tainted now the jury potentially is what the argument is 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:33.800 in some way that the right and wrong question is 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:37.520 the wrong one to consider. If you're considering the religious 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:40.240 side of it. Robes. This is not just something that's 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:44.280 wrong or icky or morally wrong to do. It's actually 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:47.520 against the law. There are rules in Massachusetts specifically, and 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:50.080 pretty much everywhere, and in federal courts as well. You 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:54.840 can not bring religion up. It doesn't happen, Robes. I 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:57.920 didn't realize how big of a no no it was 0:03:58.040 --> 0:03:59.960 until the mortal sin came up last week. 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:04.000 Yep. And the judge was pissed last week. Kevin Reddington 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:07.560 was pissed. If they were pissed last week, they were outraged, 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:10.000 And honestly, it was one of those jaw dropping moments 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:12.680 when you see you mentioned the judge swiveling his chair. 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:18.360 I mean, there was genuine anger in his voice, genuine 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:21.120 I actually thought I thought he was going to declare 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:22.280 a mistrial, you know. 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:24.479 What, Robes, because he realized what he had and he 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:27.960 probably might be forced to. This is week what five 0:04:28.040 --> 0:04:31.520 five Robes, All of this we've gone through with having 0:04:32.279 --> 0:04:36.279 elastic bands come out even I mean, it's just a 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:38.720 drain on everybody who had to participate. You tell me, 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:41.440 you got to put all these families, all these friends, 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:44.119 all these doctors, all these people through this once again 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:47.000 because of what the defense right now is calling Robes 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:50.320 intentional misconduct. He said, they're doing this on purple because. 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:54.080 They already got admonished about bringing up suicide and mortal 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:57.920 sin as it relates to her Catholic upbringing. They were 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:01.520 already told you cannot go there, you cannot go there. 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:05.640 And here we are again with a witness going there 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:09.279 and to hear the prosecutor say, I didn't ask a question. 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:12.040 He just went there. But he didn't intentionally go there. 0:05:12.360 --> 0:05:15.680 He was just trying to explain something. Look, I don't know. 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:20.040 I'm not sure, but I also think she's running a 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:22.359 huge risk not only for having this being declared a 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:25.679 mistrial grounds for appeal, but also pissing off the jury. 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:29.200 Like I mentioned, this is a major Catholic area in 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:33.919 the country, and I don't think people and anyone of 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:39.400 the Catholic faith especially would particularly appreciate their faith or 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:43.960 their religious beliefs being brought into a legal proceeding and 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:48.240 have that same faith used against the defendant because of 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:49.119 how she was raised. 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:51.520 Bro this is so, and again she was trying to 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:56.000 explain that her question, he took it upon himself. This 0:05:56.400 --> 0:06:00.080 phrase go to God is what's reportedly she said and 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:02.799 reported to doctors that she said. That's not necessarily in dispute, 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:05.200 it's in the file. He then took it a step 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:10.200 further by saying that go to God. He actually used 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:12.680 a phrase rogue, he said, and it is as well 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:14.559 as my understanding with the Catholic faith. 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:18.320 That is not that like what my understanding. Oh he's 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:21.479 not even Catholic. Oh yeah, I mean that makes it 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:23.880 even worse. And that was the judge even said that 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:28.640 he isn't some theologian, He hasn't have any any standing 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:34.080 or any expertise on Catholic dogma or Catholic Catholic doctrine. 0:06:34.200 --> 0:06:37.360 He was absolutely just kind of in a way kind 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:41.280 of guessing or trying to tie those things together. And 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:44.560 looked at to hear that. Lindsey Clancy told him when 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:47.719 he evaluated her that she wasn't thinking about moral issues 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:51.640 when she made the decision or when she killed her children. 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:53.800 She was just she said, he was all action. So 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:57.880 even by her own words, she wasn't a according to 0:06:57.920 --> 0:06:59.800 the defense, she was out of her mind. She was 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:03.160 a state of psychosis, so to even act as if 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:05.640 she was considering her Catholic faith, or that that was 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:09.279 something she was weighing to speak to her state of 0:07:09.320 --> 0:07:11.600 mind or to speak to her state of sanity. I 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:16.680 guess in this case, with this particular psychologist describing his 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:20.000 evaluation of her, it's just it was a leap that 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:24.080 should never be made or taken and certainly not testified. 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:26.200 To Can you say, I mean, I don't know. Can 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:29.080 you say that maybe they just that there was a 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:33.119 suggestion I've seen made now robes that the prosecution yes, 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:36.320 did this intentionally because they know they're losing, and they 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:39.040 would rather just go ahead, cut our losses, get this 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:41.720 one thrown out of here so we can run this back. 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:49.280 That is wow. I'd love to maybe I'm naive and 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:51.080 I'd love to think that that doesn't happen, but I 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:54.120 know better, And look, we don't know. We could never 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:57.400 prove what the intent was by the prosecution. Did they 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:00.680 want a mistrial? To my god, we've gone through five 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:04.640 were in the fifth week of this gutting, emotional, horrific testimony. 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:06.680 To imagine that you would have to do it all 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:09.880 over again. I think about Patrick Clancy, I think about 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:14.240 Lindsay Clancy's parents, Lindsay Clancy herself barely able to get 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:20.560 through days and days of just emotionally jarring. Isn't even 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:23.800 the word eviscerating testimony to have to go through it 0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:24.360 all again. 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:28.080 But then robes, what if they don't get the verdict 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:31.640 they want the defense? What are they going to do, babe? 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:34.040 What is going to be the first thing they list 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:36.200 as grounds from for a new trial? 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:40.800 Absolutely this exhibit A and B last week and this week. 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:42.920 And the judge doesn't want to have to, but he 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:45.240 doesn't want to have one of his cases now come 0:08:45.280 --> 0:08:47.439 back or get thrown out. What's a guy to do? 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:51.960 So this happens. The judge immediately sends everybody out and 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:54.760 angrily takes a recess and he says, I'll come back 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:57.200 as soon as I can. Like he got off the 0:08:57.200 --> 0:08:59.280 bench in a way, he was hot. 0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:01.160 He was going for what twenty minutes? I mean it 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:03.079 was a while. He didn't just come right back. 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:05.480 He took his time. Clearly he was he probably needed 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:07.720 to cool down and maybe need to do his research. 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:09.800 But he does come back and he says he's going 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:11.960 to allow them to make their arguments on this motion. 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:15.679 Reddington gets up first and was pretty calm and pretty collected, 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:18.400 and actually didn't he sound a little disappointed to you. 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:21.640 That he was reluctantly asking for a mistrial? And I 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:26.000 believe that because look again, we haven't gotten we're not 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:30.360 some we don't know what the jury is going to decide, 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:32.760 and it's very hard to know who's winning or losing. 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:36.800 But from our point of view, and certainly watching Kevin Reddington, 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:40.559 he is confident he has put on an incredible defense. 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:43.319 I believe by most legal experts anything I've read in 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:47.200 people evaluating how he's done in terms of defending his client, 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:50.520 he has done a stellar job. So yeah, why would 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:52.480 he want a mistrial called? Right now? 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:56.640 If he's winning, right, you're up fifty to five in 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:58.320 the fourth quarter and you want to forfeit. 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:01.439 Well, once again, I believe him when he said he 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:04.199 was reluctantly going to ask for a mistrial. 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:08.280 But roads he gets up and he's he is accusing. 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:13.520 I believe it was intentional misconduct on behalf of the Commonwealth. 0:10:13.520 --> 0:10:16.160 He says, here ropes he did make. Now, this was key, 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:19.559 he said the first time this came up, mortal sin. 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:23.840 Last week, the judge issued a warning to the judge 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:25.560 to the jurors that you're supposed to strike it. He 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:29.440 said that was sufficient today, he said, when you're major ruling, 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:32.640 it was strong. I thought it was sufficient at the time, 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:36.240 and I made a tactical decision to not ask for 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:38.800 a mistrial and to move on. He said, But now 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:42.080 this says, come up again and quote this is just 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:42.800 over the top. 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:46.439 It's true, and I actually have the original exchange between 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:51.080 the prosecutor and Susan Clancy. So this sorry, it was 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:52.920 the mother in law. It was the mother in law. 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:54.720 It was the mother in law, Susan Clancy. So the 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:58.839 prosecutors asked, are you an active member in the Catholic Church. 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:04.080 Susan Clancy replies yes. The prosecutor asks, so you're aware 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:07.160 that murder is considered a mortal sin. So that was 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:10.359 on the issue of murder, But this was about suicide. 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:12.599 So I don't know. Did they think they were cleverly 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:16.440 addressing it from another mortal sin in the Catholic Church? 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:18.480 Murder and suicide both. 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:21.360 What was this going? Forensic psychology is a psychologist. 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:24.880 A forensic psychologist. He was not in any way, shape 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:28.520 or form equipped to answer that question, or to answer 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:32.440 any or to even offer a suggestion or any sort 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:37.640 of because what he thinks, from a psychological evaluation, has 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:42.600 nothing to do with her Catholic upbringing. You can't be 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:45.600 an expert on something you don't even know. It doesn't 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:47.720 even sound like he's Catholic, was raised Catholic, has been 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:49.400 a part of the Catholic Church, And even if he 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:51.920 had been, it still would not be appropriate because he 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:55.240 hasn't been ruled or deemed an expert in Catholicism or 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:56.079 Catholic doctrine. 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:59.360 But let me tell you about Buddhism. Here is right, 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:03.600 What do any of us know but Robes, I don't 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:05.719 know if that could not hate to think it was 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:06.400 a strategy. 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:08.000 I hate to think that too. 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:09.960 But they've had a couple of moments where we thought 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:14.160 that was desperation, like what are they doing? Like there 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:16.520 were some moment I think bringing out the bands once 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:19.920 unnecessarily for an extra time to make a There was 0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:21.680 just some moments that reeked of. 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:26.120 Mind when they were describing Lindsay Clancy working out at 0:12:26.160 --> 0:12:33.320 the hospital using elastic bands much like the ones she 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:35.240 used to kill her children's wet. 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:37.600 So therefore she must not care. 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:40.160 She's that callous she's that cold that it didn't even 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:44.760 bother her to use those same type of exercise bands. 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:50.000 But yeah, the judge, he he said, what was I'm 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:54.240 going to strongly and perhaps the strongest language, talk to 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:57.040 him and let him know he can't go into that. 0:12:57.040 --> 0:13:00.440 That is what he said to the prosecution. But what 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:03.360 he said to the jury, you even said, he the 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:07.040 anger in his voice. Those jurors knew that judge was pissed. 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:10.360 I wonder what impact that we'll have on them. 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:14.120 I mean, they didn't see as much as we did, 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:18.480 but they saw enough. Stay here, we'll explain just how 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:21.679 angry this guy got. And you know what, we're kind 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:24.480 of compare it. We have seen him every day essentially 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:26.880 for the past five weeks, and we have seen him 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:27.040 like this. 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:39.040 Welcome back everyone to Amy and DJ. This is a 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:42.520 bit of a breaking news episode because we were not 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:46.679 expecting to see what we just saw in that Massachusetts courtroom. 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:50.320 The judge, Judge Sullivan in this case, I mean, I 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:54.080 would say, came so close to calling a mistrial after 0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:58.120 the defense attorney Kevin Ruddington reluctantly asked for one because 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:02.960 the prosecution went exactly in the same direction. They did 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:07.680 last week that nearly nearly cost them a mistrial. The 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:10.679 defense stopped short of asking for one, but they were admonished. 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:13.599 The judge told the jury they could not consider this 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:16.880 idea of what mortal sin is in the Catholic Church 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:18.800 as it relates to murder, and now this time as 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:24.320 it relates to suicide. But the prosecution getting in this 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:29.040 idea that perhaps Lindsey Clancy knew what she was doing 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:31.280 because of how she was raised. 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:33.560 This is crazy. I'm looking at it more and I 0:14:33.600 --> 0:14:35.400 don't know if we've gave the whole verbatim here from 0:14:35.400 --> 0:14:39.960 this guy Helibrium, right, Kurt Helibrium, this forensic psychologist who 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:44.440 who I guess examined her on behalf of the prosecution roa. 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:48.520 This was it. This is wild. That was part of 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:51.880 her expectation. He said that she and the children would 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:55.200 be together in heaven with God. She was raised as 0:14:55.240 --> 0:15:00.240 a Catholic, and as I understand Catholic considerations, that's not 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:04.840 necessarily what happens. He's saying, Catholics don't go to heaven 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:05.720 when they do this. 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:09.080 Correct Catholics. So here's like a as someone who was 0:15:09.160 --> 0:15:12.240 raised in the Catholic Church, a mortal sin means you 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:16.280 cannot go to heaven. So if you I was always 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:20.240 raised with the belief that if you committed suicide, you 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:24.080 cannot go to heaven. So the idea would be she 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:28.560 wouldn't think that she could go to heaven. If she 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:31.800 killed herself, killed her children, killed herself, she could not 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:35.040 be forgiven. It's a mortal sin in the Catholic faith. 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:40.520 So yes, he was using his understanding of Catholic teachings 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:46.920 as a legal foundation for her sanity. 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:53.880 Oh ma, I cannot believe he uttered that phrase. Raster. 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:55.840 What happened last week? 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:57.080 That is? 0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:00.360 Is it possible the prosecution didn't know he was going 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:00.960 to go there. 0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:03.680 I don't know that. 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:06.000 They claim they didn't. They claim they didn't know that 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:08.480 he made that call. He made that choice. It wasn't 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:12.480 anything she was specifically asking him, and this was not 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:15.240 something that was up for him to be like, they 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:17.920 didn't expect him to go there, according to the prosecution. 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:21.560 Okay, this judge has been pretty even keel. He's gotten 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:25.680 annoyed with some uh, some witnesses when they won't answer directly. 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:28.400 I won't just stop going on and on and on. 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:30.760 But still he's been pretty cool. He hasn't had to 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:34.120 admonish too much. He's had to step in and say, hey, guys, 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:35.320 but that's. 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:36.640 About speaking over each other. 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:39.360 That's about as bad as it's gotten. Yes, right, I 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:43.000 thought he's been firm, but he's never necessarily seemed angry. 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:46.680 Ropes this. This dude was mad. He knew immediately when 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:49.160 that came out that they were in trouble. 0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:53.200 That this was a possible mistrail. And at the very least, again, 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:56.520 if the verdict didn't go the defense's way, this would 0:16:56.560 --> 0:17:01.400 be the obvious reason grounds for appeal. So when he 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:05.480 gets the jury back into the courtroom, he tells them 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:10.879 very passionately that the religion that the defendant was raised 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:16.520 with is absolutely an inappropriate area of testimony. It is 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:19.840 to be stricken, it is not to be considered. And 0:17:19.880 --> 0:17:24.480 he added that the witnesses understanding of Catholic faith and 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:30.440 teaching is immaterial and is to be disregarded. And then 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:32.720 he said, I'm going to dismiss them because I want 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:35.560 that to be the last thing they hear, so they 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:38.719 take that with them when they go home. And they 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:40.159 felt his wrath. 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:43.439 They knew he did. He was It was almost like 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:45.760 he was on Love Island. He was talking like snapping 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:50.440 his hands. Yeah, in delivery. Why is what we're gonna do? 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.560 I don't know why to prosecute? To keep he was 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:57.160 smacking his hands, baby he was. When we came back 0:17:57.200 --> 0:17:59.800 out from the recess, he had a stack, look like 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:02.920 he came from teaching law class, a stack of stuff. 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:06.879 Oh this dude, I cannot wait to see what happened 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:09.000 in the morning. Will there be anything else said to 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:11.639 the prosecution? Will there be anything else he needs to 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:13.080 get onto that. He says he's going to talk to 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:16.080 the witness. Is he going to do that on the record, 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:17.080 off the record, I don't know. 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:19.159 He wanted the prosecute first. He told you wanted the 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:22.679 prosecutor to talk to the witness, like this cannot happen. 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:25.800 He dismissed the jury for the day a little early, 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:30.840 but then called another sidebar with the attorneys. So look, 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:33.760 there is going to be more hashed out. I'm sure 0:18:33.800 --> 0:18:36.239 about what needs to be said to this witness, what 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:39.000 he needs to say to the attorneys. But does the 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:41.320 witness even know what he did wrong? 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:43.399 He Betty does. By now, I mean, I was. 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:46.960 Just thinking this is an older guy He's apparently had 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:51.919 a lot of a lot of experience testifying. He had 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:54.440 a lot of notes he was shuffling through. But this 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:57.359 isn't his first rodeo. So that's a little shocking that 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:00.360 he wouldn't know not to go there. 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:02.480 Babe, you make a good point. This is as play. 0:19:02.520 --> 0:19:04.800 It might be new to us and not top of mind. 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:11.119 This is understood. This is a major, major no no, bro, 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:15.119 this is I've seen some legal analysis about this. This 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:20.040 is way out of bounds the first time, two times. 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:23.920 What are we doing? Can't wait to see what happens 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:26.080 in the morning. I don't know. The judge has already 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:28.080 said no mistrial. Can he go back on that? Can 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:30.520 he have a different opinion in the morning. 0:19:30.720 --> 0:19:33.840 Uh, you know that the judge can do whatever he wants. Again, 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:36.280 I'm sure he could take some time upon further reflection, 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:40.680 But obviously I understand why he's hesitant to call a 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:44.880 mis trial. We're at the very end this I believe 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:48.840 might be the final rebuttal witness, and you're telling me 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:52.480 the last few minutes of the last bit of testimony 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:57.040 is going to upend four full weeks of testing. 0:19:57.200 --> 0:20:00.800 Man, he's oh my god, he is gonna this how 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:04.119 short is at least going to be with the prosecution. Now, Robes, 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:06.919 he has to be keeping an eye because it a 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:10.959 look it I don't know they should have known, is 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:13.920 one of the arguments. The other argument is they asked 0:20:13.960 --> 0:20:16.560 the question and they had no idea where he was 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:18.680 going to go. Or the other thing is Robes, they 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:21.560 flat out did exactly what they wanted to and this 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:24.359 is some strategy they've decided to use. 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:26.760 Do you think that that's the case. Do you think 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:29.879 that's the more likely situation that the prosecution so badly 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:32.879 wants to get this idea of mortal sin into the 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:36.280 jurors minds, that because she was raised Catholic, because she 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:40.199 fully understood as a Catholic what a mortal sin is, 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:43.280 and that is suicide, and that is homicide, but suicide 0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:47.640 even more specifically because you don't we are taught as 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:51.520 Catholics that you if you kill yourself, you cannot go 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:57.800 to heaven. So obviously they wanted that in the jury's mind. 0:20:57.880 --> 0:20:59.680 But that what does that prove to me? That this 0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:02.120 woman who has been struggling and all this evidence I've 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:05.879 seen of her postpartum depression and psychosis, forget that because 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:08.879 she was raised Catholic. Therefore she always knows that this 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:10.560 is wrong. Is that the connection? 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:14.119 And yes, I mean I think that's what they're trying 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:18.280 to say, that it was wrong because she was raised 0:21:18.359 --> 0:21:21.360 as a Catholic and her Catholic considerations would be with 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:24.360 her because it's how she was raised. And right when 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:28.600 the judge paused, he said that he asked Lindsey Clancy 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:31.600 whether suicide was a mortal sin? And I cannot believe 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:34.680 those words were uttered again. That phrase came out again 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:39.240 because they were so admonished for having because the prosecutor 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:42.960 used that term last week. Now you got a witness 0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:48.440 uttering it this week, and look, this will be It's all. 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:51.920 It's been a fascinating case. Every day there's been something 0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:57.479 unique and interesting. This one was truly unexpected. And who 0:21:57.840 --> 0:21:59.919 I thought it was over. You came running in like 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:01.680 I think we've got a mistrial. 0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:05.280 I was sure this was about to happen. And because 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:08.000 his tone, he looked defeated when this came out of 0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:10.280 at that dude's mouth, he was pissed and defeated, like, 0:22:10.320 --> 0:22:13.399 oh my god, yeah, I mean his reaction really was 0:22:13.400 --> 0:22:15.439 the thing that for me I mean, I don't have 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:19.520 any legal background fully of understood on my own. His 0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:21.679