WEBVTT - With Friends Like These

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Hidden Gin, a production of I Heart

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<v Speaker 1>Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minkey. Some of

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<v Speaker 1>you may know that I am an attorney by profession

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<v Speaker 1>and spent most of my legal career doing immigration and

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<v Speaker 1>civil rights work. Well you may not know is that

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<v Speaker 1>my legal work eventually led to working briefly for about

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<v Speaker 1>six years in national security policy. Now that's another story

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<v Speaker 1>to tell, but suffice it to say that work connected

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<v Speaker 1>me to experts across the field, military and defense folks,

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<v Speaker 1>policy walks, and government and think tanks, homeland security officials, diplomats,

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<v Speaker 1>social media executives, researchers, academics, commune and social workers. Let's

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<v Speaker 1>just say it was a broad reaching and deeply interesting work. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>many of these connections were virtual, which is pretty common

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<v Speaker 1>these days. So I was excited at one point to

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<v Speaker 1>be invited to present at a conference where I would

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<v Speaker 1>meet some of these folks in person finally, and one

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<v Speaker 1>of those people I was looking forward to meeting was

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<v Speaker 1>a national security expert and former intelligence operative from another country,

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<v Speaker 1>someone who was pretty well respected in industry circles by

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<v Speaker 1>all indications online. He was a fairly serious guy with

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<v Speaker 1>some intense experience in the field, and he was often

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<v Speaker 1>called upon to testify in high level hearings on national

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<v Speaker 1>security matters. I have been following him online for a

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<v Speaker 1>few years and vice versa, and I was pleased when

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<v Speaker 1>we met to find him to be pretty laid back

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<v Speaker 1>and friendly, and on the first evening of the conference,

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<v Speaker 1>as we mingled after dinner, I began gently asking this

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<v Speaker 1>gentleman about something I had been curious about for a while.

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<v Speaker 1>Years earlier, he had been involved in a controversy that

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<v Speaker 1>involved a criminal proceeding, and it seemed to still haunt

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<v Speaker 1>his social media mentions every so often. I remember I

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<v Speaker 1>was holding a soda taking SIPs as he began telling

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<v Speaker 1>me about what had happened and how he and his

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<v Speaker 1>family had gotten through it. But nothing could have prepared

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<v Speaker 1>me for what he was going to say. He told

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<v Speaker 1>me that for a very long time, for years, he

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<v Speaker 1>had a group of gin, his own gin that protected him.

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<v Speaker 1>The details on how he got ahold of these gin

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<v Speaker 1>and got them to do his bidding is fuzzy now,

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<v Speaker 1>probably because I was trying to process a whole lot

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<v Speaker 1>going on in my head. As I listened, he explained

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<v Speaker 1>that on the day he was to testify in his

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<v Speaker 1>highly publicized and controversial case. He was sequestered in a

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<v Speaker 1>witness waiting room, but his GIN were able to show

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<v Speaker 1>him what was happening in the court room, almost as

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<v Speaker 1>if the walls between him and the room where the judge, jury,

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<v Speaker 1>and lawyers were doing their duties had disappeared. The gin

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<v Speaker 1>had lifted the veils of the material world in order

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<v Speaker 1>to calm him down, to reassure him that they were

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<v Speaker 1>with him. And so he sat in the witness room

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<v Speaker 1>down multiple halls, able to see the proceedings before he

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<v Speaker 1>was even called, and when the bailiff came to get him,

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<v Speaker 1>he didn't need to be guided into the courtroom. He

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<v Speaker 1>knew every turn down the hallway, and he knew who

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<v Speaker 1>was who before he stepped in front of the judge.

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<v Speaker 1>These jen he said, had been with him for a

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<v Speaker 1>few years before all of this had gone down, and

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<v Speaker 1>they protected his life after the trial too, But eventually

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<v Speaker 1>he had dismissed them, no longer needing their services. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>as I was standing there taking this in, you have

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<v Speaker 1>to understand I had no reason not to believe this man. First,

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<v Speaker 1>Why would he a professional with a solid reputation share

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<v Speaker 1>a story that could so undermine him. Second, I had

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<v Speaker 1>seen or heard nothing about him or from him, Otherwise

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<v Speaker 1>that would make me wonder about the state of his

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<v Speaker 1>mind or his credibility, and believe me I had asked around. Finally,

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<v Speaker 1>I know I have my own inexplicable experiences and which

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<v Speaker 1>I've been convinced a jin was at the root of

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<v Speaker 1>my troubles. So if I believe that, why wouldn't I

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<v Speaker 1>believe this guy? Where exactly do you draw the line

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<v Speaker 1>on what Gin stories are too fantastical to be true?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, really, it's like being a little bit pregnant.

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<v Speaker 1>You're either all in or not. Anyhow, it did get

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<v Speaker 1>me thinking though about the very nature of gin. Up

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<v Speaker 1>until that point, most of the firsthand stories I had

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<v Speaker 1>heard from people who had Gin experiences were either outright

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<v Speaker 1>frightening or at least kind of spooky. Even the stories

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<v Speaker 1>of the far far past, like the gin that built

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<v Speaker 1>Solomon's first temple, were only helpful to humans when they

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<v Speaker 1>were being controlled against their will. But this man's story

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<v Speaker 1>shifted my perception a little bit about the Gin, Putting

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<v Speaker 1>aside the fact that it was a little problematic as

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<v Speaker 1>a lawyer that they rendered the sequestration of a witness

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<v Speaker 1>completely meaningless. These gin were protective of their human They

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<v Speaker 1>were not just there to guard him physically, but to

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<v Speaker 1>calm him down, to take care of his emotional and

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<v Speaker 1>mental state. The question then becomes what to make up

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<v Speaker 1>a gin. What we know is that while they may

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<v Speaker 1>be everywhere surrounding us at this very moment, and that

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<v Speaker 1>they're powerful and able to wreak all kinds of havoc

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<v Speaker 1>on us if they want to, they mostly don't. They

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<v Speaker 1>just go about their business while doing their best to

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<v Speaker 1>steer clear of humans, and they don't even like human

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<v Speaker 1>beings entering their space. So are they good? Are they evil?

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<v Speaker 1>Are they our friends or our foes? If you recall

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<v Speaker 1>the legend of King Solomon's Jinn's when they were eventually

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<v Speaker 1>released from their bondage, they vow to be an enemy

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<v Speaker 1>to mankind forever. But most scholars and experts say that

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<v Speaker 1>you can't broadly label the gin as good or bad

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<v Speaker 1>anymore than you can with people. According to a scholar

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<v Speaker 1>of Arabic literature, so Nila Mubai, orthodox traditionalists say that

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<v Speaker 1>people cannot understand the gin. We're either not capable of

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<v Speaker 1>it or we're not meant to, but why not? It

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<v Speaker 1>would seem they're not too much different than us. They

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<v Speaker 1>feel anger, rage, happiness, lust, love, They have free will,

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<v Speaker 1>they marry and have children, and they are countless stories

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<v Speaker 1>of Gin studying alongside humans and earthly educational institutes, so

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<v Speaker 1>it seems like they like to learn and grow just

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<v Speaker 1>like us too. They live in families and tribes and societies,

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<v Speaker 1>and their leaders governed peacefully, but will also wage war

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<v Speaker 1>when necessary. The Gin characters found in Old Arab folklore

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<v Speaker 1>are almost unnervingly human, facing the same kinds of troubles

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<v Speaker 1>and issues we all do. I imagine Jin spouse is

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<v Speaker 1>arguing over the bills, and Jin kids pouting over bedtime,

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<v Speaker 1>and Jin grandparents spoiling their Jin grand babies. I think that,

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<v Speaker 1>just like people, we tend not to hear about the

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<v Speaker 1>silent majority of the Gin just living their lives. The

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<v Speaker 1>stories we know about the Jin come from the opposite

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<v Speaker 1>ends of the spectrum, the good ones, the helpers, or

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<v Speaker 1>the very very bad ones. My name is Robbia Chadar,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'll be your guide into the world of the

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<v Speaker 1>hidden Gin. Welcome. While the universe may be full of Gin,

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<v Speaker 1>most of them will live their lives completely unknown to us. Some, however,

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<v Speaker 1>we know by name because of their power, or their

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<v Speaker 1>stature in the Gin realm, or their impact on human lives.

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<v Speaker 1>And one of the most famous of the ones that

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<v Speaker 1>are named is a Jin whose life story reflects the

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<v Speaker 1>complicated nature of these creatures. That Jin is King Schamharush,

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<v Speaker 1>both demon and saint, feared and loved. The story of

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<v Speaker 1>Chamharush is thousands of years old. He's one of the

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<v Speaker 1>seven Jin kings who originally ruled the Jin kingdoms called

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<v Speaker 1>alta Jar. The Flyer. King Chamharoush was known to be

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<v Speaker 1>the fastest Jin, able to fly between physical places and dimensions,

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<v Speaker 1>faster than any unit of measurement our feeble mortal minds

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<v Speaker 1>could ever come up with. But there may be another

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<v Speaker 1>reason he's called the flyer. It could be because of

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<v Speaker 1>the speed of his vast communications network. King Chamharoush was

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<v Speaker 1>way ahead of the social media and e messaging game,

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<v Speaker 1>with a network that's been compared to a river with

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<v Speaker 1>thousands of tributaries and each tributary branching into tens of

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<v Speaker 1>thousands of smaller ones. The river itself a legion of

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<v Speaker 1>Jin that report back to him, and each of these

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<v Speaker 1>gin with the legion of their own, and those jin

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<v Speaker 1>with allegiance of their own, all set up so that

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<v Speaker 1>Schamharush not only knows what is happening in every part

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<v Speaker 1>of the world, his world and ours, but he knows

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<v Speaker 1>it virtually instantly. How's that for a grape vine. The

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<v Speaker 1>name Shamharush itself means the usher a moniker he may

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<v Speaker 1>have gotten because it's believed that while he might have

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<v Speaker 1>been a king, he still did serve more powerful masters,

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<v Speaker 1>and so the usher at King Shamharush stood guard at

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<v Speaker 1>one of the entrances to Satan's palace and was directly

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<v Speaker 1>in the service of the son of Satan, Prince Mora. Clearly,

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<v Speaker 1>this king had allegiances to dark forces, I mean like

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<v Speaker 1>he was tight with the worst of them, but it

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<v Speaker 1>seems like he eventually saw the light. His legend predates

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<v Speaker 1>Islam and Christianity, but it said that once Jesus came along,

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<v Speaker 1>Shamharush apparently became a Christian, and six centuries later he

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<v Speaker 1>met the prophet Mohammed, prompting him to then become a Muslim.

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<v Speaker 1>Not only did he become a Muslim, though he became

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<v Speaker 1>a GODDI a judge of Islamic law, presumably presiding over

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<v Speaker 1>matters of religion in the Jinn world. That's what ultimately

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<v Speaker 1>landed him the reputation of being a saint, long before

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<v Speaker 1>he became a Christian or a Muslim, even before these

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<v Speaker 1>religions existed. Actually, sham Haush was revered. We know this

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<v Speaker 1>because almost two thousand four high up in the Atlas

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<v Speaker 1>Mountains in Morocco, there stands a massive rock painted white

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<v Speaker 1>with a green and white flag flying from its summit.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not just any old rock. It's a shrine to

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<v Speaker 1>King sham Haroush dating back thousands of years, and throughout

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<v Speaker 1>the history of that shrine, seekers in need of help

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<v Speaker 1>have flocked to it, making pilgrimages to ask the Jin's

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<v Speaker 1>favor in granting their wishes, and they still do by

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<v Speaker 1>the way. Eventually, though, when Islam did spread to the

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<v Speaker 1>region about years ago, a mosque was installed next to

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<v Speaker 1>the shrine. But the rock that forms a shrine is

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<v Speaker 1>so big that it dwarfs the humble little mosque. The

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<v Speaker 1>earth itself is hollowed out beneath the rock, and some

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<v Speaker 1>say it's a zo liam that once held the remains

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<v Speaker 1>of the Great Jin king himself. Now, it's not clear

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<v Speaker 1>when or how cham Harous went from guarding Satan's palace

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<v Speaker 1>to being venerated at a shrine, and it's also not

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<v Speaker 1>clear if he's dead or alive. As I mentioned, some

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<v Speaker 1>think the shrine is where the king is laid to rest,

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<v Speaker 1>but others believe he's still very much alive and takes

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<v Speaker 1>care of those who seek him out. One of the

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<v Speaker 1>signs that he's still around is that food and water

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<v Speaker 1>magically appear to pilgrims as they journey to his shrine,

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<v Speaker 1>as befits his reputation for hospitality and benevolence. Cha Haroush's

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<v Speaker 1>story is remarkable in that it means Gin, very much

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<v Speaker 1>like humans, have a capacity for new beginnings. Even the

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<v Speaker 1>most evil of them can turn their lives around. It's

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<v Speaker 1>quite a redemption story, if you ask me, and it

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<v Speaker 1>confirms the theory that Jin aren't fundamentally good or bad. Most,

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<v Speaker 1>as I said earlier, just quietly stay in their lanes,

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<v Speaker 1>living their lives and leaving us alone. But there are

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<v Speaker 1>many stories of Gin entering our world when they want

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<v Speaker 1>something from it. And no, I don't mean to haunt

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<v Speaker 1>and possess and torture us. In fact, you'd be surprised

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<v Speaker 1>at how ordinary their interests are. In the book Legends

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<v Speaker 1>of the Fire Spirits, author Robert Lebling relays a contemporary

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<v Speaker 1>story from a young Bangladeshi woman about her time as

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<v Speaker 1>a college student at the University of Taka. The woman

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<v Speaker 1>isn't named, but for the sake of the story will

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<v Speaker 1>call her Maria. In the fall of Maria had moved

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<v Speaker 1>out of the campus and into a dorm where she

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<v Speaker 1>was assigned a roommate named Lucy. There is something, however,

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<v Speaker 1>about Lucy that wasn't quite right. Lucy was beautiful in

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<v Speaker 1>an extraordinary way. She had exceedingly bright eyes, a big,

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<v Speaker 1>welcoming smile, a dimple and a mole on her left cheek,

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<v Speaker 1>and she was tall with long, dark hair. Her beauty,

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<v Speaker 1>said Maria, was unpaired. Allowed She wasn't just lovely on

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<v Speaker 1>the outside, though she was incredibly kind, loving, amiable, and

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<v Speaker 1>simply good. The two young women quickly became close friends,

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<v Speaker 1>sharing secrets and confiding in each other, and said Maria,

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<v Speaker 1>I could not but love her, and I am sure

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<v Speaker 1>that she loved me the same. Over the course of

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<v Speaker 1>the next few months, Maria noticed that Lucy would do

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<v Speaker 1>inexplicable things like finished tasks and work faster than humanly possible.

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<v Speaker 1>One night, Lucy went to visit another student and Maria

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<v Speaker 1>waited up for her, knowing that she didn't have a

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<v Speaker 1>key to the room. But eventually Maria got sleepy, so

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<v Speaker 1>she decided she would just lock the dorm door and

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<v Speaker 1>get up to open it when Lucy returned and knocked,

0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:45.280
<v Speaker 1>so she fell asleep, but when she woke up a

0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:48.600
<v Speaker 1>few hours later, she found Lucy in the room with her.

0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:51.920
<v Speaker 1>Maria demanded to know how she got into the room,

0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:54.360
<v Speaker 1>because she knew without a doubt that she had locked it,

0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:57.560
<v Speaker 1>but Lucy assured her that no, the door was open

0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:00.920
<v Speaker 1>when she got back. Maybe, she said, Maria was so

0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:04.760
<v Speaker 1>drowsy that she imagined she had locked the door. Maria

0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:07.960
<v Speaker 1>was sure that was not possible, and yet she had

0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:11.719
<v Speaker 1>no other explanation for what had happened. The next day, though,

0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:16.840
<v Speaker 1>everything became clear. It was Lucy's birthday on December thirteenth,

0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:20.360
<v Speaker 1>so on the night of the summer twelve, Maria wanted

0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:23.600
<v Speaker 1>to surprise her exactly at midnight with a necklace she

0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:27.480
<v Speaker 1>had bought for her friend. As the clock approached twelve am,

0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:30.640
<v Speaker 1>Lucy sat down in front of their shared dresser, brushing

0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:34.040
<v Speaker 1>her hair, preparing for bed. Maria pulled out the gift

0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:36.720
<v Speaker 1>and stood behind her roommate, wishing her a happy birthday.

0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:41.640
<v Speaker 1>As she latched the necklace around Lucy's neck, Maria looked

0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:43.320
<v Speaker 1>up into the mirror to see how the neck was

0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:45.920
<v Speaker 1>looked on her friend, and to her shock and horror,

0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:50.480
<v Speaker 1>the mirror held no reflection of Lucy at all. There

0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:54.680
<v Speaker 1>was just a necklace suspended by itself an air Maria

0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:57.240
<v Speaker 1>screamed and fainted, and when she came to, she was

0:14:57.320 --> 0:14:59.680
<v Speaker 1>surrounded by other girls living in the dormitory who had

0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:04.160
<v Speaker 1>heard scream. Lucy, however, was nowhere to be seen, and

0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:08.960
<v Speaker 1>in fact, she would never be seen again. Maria was

0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:11.000
<v Speaker 1>so shaken by all of this that she left school

0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:13.160
<v Speaker 1>and returned home for a few months, not wanting to

0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:17.080
<v Speaker 1>return to the university. Over time, though she felt guilt

0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:20.560
<v Speaker 1>and regret, she remembered how wonderful Lucy was and what

0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:23.400
<v Speaker 1>a great friend she had been, and realized that her

0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:28.040
<v Speaker 1>terrified reaction had driven Lucy away because others told her

0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:31.720
<v Speaker 1>that Lucy was probably a ginn who had taken human form.

0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:35.160
<v Speaker 1>To study at the university, and it could have been that.

0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:38.480
<v Speaker 1>After a few months with Maria, Lucy thought they were

0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:41.840
<v Speaker 1>close enough to reveal her secret to her roommate, but

0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:45.560
<v Speaker 1>instead it had backfired and Lucy had to quickly disappear.

0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:49.760
<v Speaker 1>Maria eventually returned to the campus and was assigned a

0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:55.000
<v Speaker 1>new roommate, a girl named Mini. Mini was like Lucy beautiful,

0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:59.760
<v Speaker 1>although she didn't exactly look like her until she smiled.

0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:03.400
<v Speaker 1>As smile that seemed oddly familiar, and that's when Maria

0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:07.960
<v Speaker 1>noticed on Many's left cheek a dimple and a mole.

0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:16.200
<v Speaker 1>Lucy story doesn't come as much of a surprise to me.

0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:19.840
<v Speaker 1>I've actually heard firsthand accounts by people people I trust

0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:23.240
<v Speaker 1>who are certain that some student or another they studied

0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:26.720
<v Speaker 1>with years earlier was a gin. It seems to be

0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:29.880
<v Speaker 1>a rather common theme the gin entering the human realm

0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:32.800
<v Speaker 1>to study, though to be honest, I do have questions

0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:37.560
<v Speaker 1>about their registration process, transcripts and finances, parent teacher conferences

0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:40.080
<v Speaker 1>at all, but maybe I'm thinking too much into it.

0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:42.960
<v Speaker 1>It may seem odd that the gin would want to

0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:45.800
<v Speaker 1>go to human schools, but it's said that one of

0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:48.560
<v Speaker 1>the ways a gin can increase their rank or power

0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:52.160
<v Speaker 1>is through more knowledge. I mean, even we know that

0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:56.160
<v Speaker 1>knowledge is power, and gaining knowledge is so important to

0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:59.200
<v Speaker 1>some Gin. They not only enter our worlds to study

0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:02.800
<v Speaker 1>alongside us, they also study the ancient texts of the

0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:07.240
<v Speaker 1>past to grow ever more powerful. A legend relayed by

0:17:07.280 --> 0:17:11.520
<v Speaker 1>the nineteenth century mystic Madame Helena Bolovatsky and her occult

0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:16.240
<v Speaker 1>classic Isis Unveiled, tells of an ancient, petrified and buried

0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:20.399
<v Speaker 1>city where the Jin pursue their studies. The city referred

0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:23.680
<v Speaker 1>to is the three thousand, five hundred year old Ishmania,

0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:29.240
<v Speaker 1>today known as Al Ashmunain, located in Middle Egypt and

0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:33.040
<v Speaker 1>rumored to once be filled with the petrified bodies of men, women,

0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.320
<v Speaker 1>and children. Ishmonia is found near the ruins of a

0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:40.160
<v Speaker 1>vast and well known necropolis. This city of the dead

0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:43.960
<v Speaker 1>is Hermopolis, which was once the opulent center of the

0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:47.440
<v Speaker 1>cult of the pagan deity of Learning and Scribes, both

0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:52.760
<v Speaker 1>known to the Greeks as Ermez. Archaeologists have uncovered a

0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:56.520
<v Speaker 1>labyrinth of streets and catacombs and ruins related to the

0:17:56.600 --> 0:18:00.480
<v Speaker 1>temple of both. But here the ground underneath your feet

0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:04.480
<v Speaker 1>contains not only thousands of catacombs holding the mummified bodies

0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:09.040
<v Speaker 1>of people and animals. According to Madame Blavatsky, there are

0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:14.720
<v Speaker 1>also vast subterranean galleries filled with millions of manuscripts and scrolls,

0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:19.120
<v Speaker 1>hidden archives holding the ancient writings of thought, the god

0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:22.920
<v Speaker 1>believed to be the inventor of writing itself. And while

0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:26.640
<v Speaker 1>the ruins stand lonely and unoccupied during the day, according

0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:33.320
<v Speaker 1>to Madame Blavatsky, everything changes at night. For no amount

0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:35.680
<v Speaker 1>of money would the Arabs go near it at night?

0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:39.000
<v Speaker 1>They say, from the crevices of the desolate ruins, sunk

0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:42.240
<v Speaker 1>deep in the unwatered sands of the desert stream, the

0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:45.800
<v Speaker 1>rays of lights carried to and fro in the galleries

0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:50.240
<v Speaker 1>by no human hands. The afrite Jin study the literature

0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:53.840
<v Speaker 1>of the Andaluvian ages, and the Jin learns from the

0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:59.720
<v Speaker 1>magic rolls the lesson of the following day. So yeah,

0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:03.160
<v Speaker 1>the Gin definitely know the value of education and knowledge.

0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:07.360
<v Speaker 1>These tales also provide us with a different and fascinating

0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:10.600
<v Speaker 1>insight when it comes to how the Gin see themselves

0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:14.480
<v Speaker 1>in relation to humans. And that's this. They may be

0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:17.480
<v Speaker 1>so much more powerful than us in many ways, with

0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:21.680
<v Speaker 1>supernatural abilities. We don't have, but we know things they don't.

0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:24.960
<v Speaker 1>They may lift thousands of years more than us and

0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:29.200
<v Speaker 1>witness events that we never could, and yet they lack

0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:33.200
<v Speaker 1>something we have and they know it, which might be why,

0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:36.200
<v Speaker 1>according to all of the Abrahamic faith traditions, at least

0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:40.720
<v Speaker 1>mankind made of mere flesh and blood, is God's most

0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:43.959
<v Speaker 1>superior creation. And that's not just me saying it, that's

0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:48.280
<v Speaker 1>according to God himself. Human beings are superior to the angels,

0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:52.240
<v Speaker 1>and yes to the Gin for sure. That could rub

0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:55.439
<v Speaker 1>some gin the wrong way. And then, of course, remember,

0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:58.119
<v Speaker 1>the Gin were here before us, thousands of years at

0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:01.400
<v Speaker 1>least before then. We came along and took over the earth,

0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:05.399
<v Speaker 1>God's new favorite children early on, though it might not

0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:08.679
<v Speaker 1>have bothered them too much, because well before the advent

0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:12.360
<v Speaker 1>of the Abrahamic religions, people not only believed in the Gin,

0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:21.960
<v Speaker 1>but they worshiped them in ancient times. Scholars believe that

0:20:22.000 --> 0:20:26.160
<v Speaker 1>the early divinities worshiped by the Sumerians, Babylonians, and Akkadians

0:20:26.280 --> 0:20:30.400
<v Speaker 1>thousands of years ago were Gin deities, but the advent

0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:35.120
<v Speaker 1>of monotheism turned people away from gin idolatry, further enraging

0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:38.840
<v Speaker 1>them tolerating humans wasn't so bad as long as a

0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:42.120
<v Speaker 1>Gin felt in some way superior to them, and then

0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:45.760
<v Speaker 1>even that was taken away from them. According to the

0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:48.840
<v Speaker 1>authors of the book The Vengeful Gin, here's a long

0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:53.239
<v Speaker 1>history of perceived indignities and injustices the Gin have had

0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:56.200
<v Speaker 1>to bear because of humans, and many of them have

0:20:56.320 --> 0:20:58.879
<v Speaker 1>felt deeply wronged ever since we arrived on the scene

0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:02.440
<v Speaker 1>and took it over. The Jin who once occupied this

0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:06.399
<v Speaker 1>world now seek to reclaim it back from us, and

0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:09.399
<v Speaker 1>if they can't have it back, they'll at least make

0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:13.560
<v Speaker 1>our lives miserable for it. Some Jin get their kicks

0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:17.240
<v Speaker 1>by playing harmless pranks on people, disappearing objects, moving things around,

0:21:17.600 --> 0:21:21.160
<v Speaker 1>playing with our heads, nothing malicious, but sometimes a way

0:21:21.200 --> 0:21:24.159
<v Speaker 1>to let a person know that they're around. But one

0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:27.840
<v Speaker 1>of the ways they exert actual power over people, power

0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:30.920
<v Speaker 1>that can be used to harm is through shape shifting,

0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:36.160
<v Speaker 1>continuously deceiving our eyes while at the same time enticing

0:21:36.280 --> 0:21:40.760
<v Speaker 1>us to them. There's a fascinating ancient story relaid by

0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:44.920
<v Speaker 1>the scholar Amira al Zane in her book Islam, Arabs

0:21:45.000 --> 0:21:48.239
<v Speaker 1>and the Intelligent World of the Gin that illustrates how

0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:52.399
<v Speaker 1>the Gin go about their vengeance. In the story, a

0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:55.920
<v Speaker 1>gin named Abu Hadraj recounts his days on earth to

0:21:56.000 --> 0:21:59.760
<v Speaker 1>a man who was interrogating him about his life. Hadraj

0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:02.719
<v Speaker 1>gains by explaining how the gin and mankind have been

0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:07.600
<v Speaker 1>gifted different things. Man, he says, has the gift of stratagem,

0:22:08.200 --> 0:22:13.320
<v Speaker 1>and the gin have the gift of power. I have

0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:17.159
<v Speaker 1>suffered evil from men, and they from me. The children

0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:19.760
<v Speaker 1>of Adam were evil to me, and I likewise treated them.

0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:22.760
<v Speaker 1>Once I entered into their world, wanting to sleep with

0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:25.760
<v Speaker 1>one of their maids, and I changed my shape into

0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:28.639
<v Speaker 1>the form of a field rat, and the cats chased me.

0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:31.240
<v Speaker 1>And when they got me, I shaped shifted into a

0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:34.879
<v Speaker 1>striped serpent and slinked into a tree stump, but they

0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:39.080
<v Speaker 1>uncovered me. I followed along the timbers plank, and while

0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:41.919
<v Speaker 1>they were wondering where I was, I went to the Virgin,

0:22:42.200 --> 0:22:45.159
<v Speaker 1>who was under a mosquito net. And when she saw me,

0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:49.399
<v Speaker 1>the fear hit her that her family gathered around her

0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:52.720
<v Speaker 1>from all sides and brought exorcists that called doctors, and

0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:56.280
<v Speaker 1>they made every effort to revive her, but I did

0:22:56.320 --> 0:22:59.920
<v Speaker 1>not respond. I clutched to her tightly, and when death

0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:04.359
<v Speaker 1>hit her. I sought to replace her by another, then another,

0:23:05.160 --> 0:23:11.439
<v Speaker 1>then another. Abu Hadraj killed the woman that he sought,

0:23:11.960 --> 0:23:15.320
<v Speaker 1>the virgin. Yes, I know, it's always a virgin somehow.

0:23:16.320 --> 0:23:19.639
<v Speaker 1>But he wasn't satisfied. His rage against mankind was so

0:23:19.800 --> 0:23:23.600
<v Speaker 1>deep that he killed another, and another and another. The

0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:26.920
<v Speaker 1>story ends in an interesting way, though the Jin confesses

0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:29.040
<v Speaker 1>that he stopped killing young women when he saw the

0:23:29.119 --> 0:23:33.040
<v Speaker 1>light of God and repented his sins, he says were

0:23:33.119 --> 0:23:37.359
<v Speaker 1>now forgiven. This story was originally penned by the blind

0:23:37.560 --> 0:23:42.000
<v Speaker 1>tenth century Syrian poet and philosopher Abu Almari, who wrote

0:23:42.040 --> 0:23:44.280
<v Speaker 1>it in response to a topic of hot debate in

0:23:44.320 --> 0:23:47.400
<v Speaker 1>that era, whether jin were good or evil, and whether

0:23:47.480 --> 0:23:50.560
<v Speaker 1>they could make it to paradise after dying. The way

0:23:50.600 --> 0:23:53.680
<v Speaker 1>that Almari wrote it, the jinn Abu Hadraj was telling

0:23:53.800 --> 0:23:57.119
<v Speaker 1>his story from where he sat for eternity at the

0:23:57.240 --> 0:24:01.080
<v Speaker 1>mouth of a cave in Paradise. So it seems the

0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:04.560
<v Speaker 1>gin like man can find their way to heaven. A

0:24:04.720 --> 0:24:08.360
<v Speaker 1>rather powerful redemption story. Given them many lives. This gin

0:24:08.480 --> 0:24:11.920
<v Speaker 1>had taken lies of young women that apparently had done

0:24:11.960 --> 0:24:15.440
<v Speaker 1>nothing to deserve the ire of this gin. But that's

0:24:15.440 --> 0:24:18.240
<v Speaker 1>not always the case, though. While there are times a

0:24:18.320 --> 0:24:21.800
<v Speaker 1>gin may choose their victim arbitrarily, more often than not

0:24:22.000 --> 0:24:24.920
<v Speaker 1>there is some specific reason a gin will attack a person.

0:24:25.720 --> 0:24:28.320
<v Speaker 1>Provoking them on purpose or not is one sure way

0:24:28.400 --> 0:24:31.800
<v Speaker 1>to draw their vengeance. In traditional Arab culture, it was

0:24:31.880 --> 0:24:34.680
<v Speaker 1>forbidden to casually cast a stone or a fruit pit

0:24:34.800 --> 0:24:37.359
<v Speaker 1>into the open, or throw water out of a window,

0:24:37.880 --> 0:24:40.080
<v Speaker 1>or drive stakes into the ground for fear of hurting

0:24:40.119 --> 0:24:43.359
<v Speaker 1>a gin without meaning to, and particular care should be

0:24:43.440 --> 0:24:46.200
<v Speaker 1>taken not to harm or encroach on places that the

0:24:46.320 --> 0:24:50.440
<v Speaker 1>gin might live, like forests and caves and lakes. Pre

0:24:50.600 --> 0:24:54.280
<v Speaker 1>modern Persian texts warned not to set wildfires or to

0:24:54.400 --> 0:24:57.560
<v Speaker 1>throw waste into bodies of water or trash in the desert,

0:24:58.000 --> 0:25:00.920
<v Speaker 1>because you might inadvertently be di throwing a gin's home

0:25:01.480 --> 0:25:03.960
<v Speaker 1>and I can't help. But note it's also some great

0:25:04.000 --> 0:25:07.639
<v Speaker 1>advice to keep the planet green and clean, so the

0:25:07.760 --> 0:25:10.040
<v Speaker 1>next time you find yourself about to check some trash

0:25:10.119 --> 0:25:13.000
<v Speaker 1>in the woods, you might want to rethink it. Just

0:25:13.160 --> 0:25:15.119
<v Speaker 1>because you think no one can see you and no

0:25:15.240 --> 0:25:18.960
<v Speaker 1>one lives there anyway doesn't mean it's true, and that's

0:25:19.000 --> 0:25:22.359
<v Speaker 1>as good as any reason not to litter. You also

0:25:22.480 --> 0:25:25.400
<v Speaker 1>never want to strike an animal, especially a black one,

0:25:26.040 --> 0:25:29.000
<v Speaker 1>first because it's simply a terrible thing to do, but

0:25:29.160 --> 0:25:32.400
<v Speaker 1>also because that could very well be agent in disguise,

0:25:33.280 --> 0:25:35.399
<v Speaker 1>and doing something like that could very well turn and

0:25:35.480 --> 0:25:40.320
<v Speaker 1>otherwise neutral Gin into your enemy, an enemy that is

0:25:40.359 --> 0:25:43.960
<v Speaker 1>able to mentally and physically torment you, make you sick,

0:25:44.200 --> 0:25:48.120
<v Speaker 1>possess you, even kill you. Although it's said that only

0:25:48.200 --> 0:25:51.960
<v Speaker 1>the most evil of them go to those lengths. But

0:25:52.080 --> 0:25:54.239
<v Speaker 1>perhaps one of the most frightening things that gin can

0:25:54.320 --> 0:25:57.880
<v Speaker 1>do to humans is abduct them and carry them off

0:25:57.960 --> 0:26:02.120
<v Speaker 1>into their own world. Stories of gin abductions stretched back

0:26:02.200 --> 0:26:04.399
<v Speaker 1>to the Middle Ages, and there are a number of

0:26:04.440 --> 0:26:08.400
<v Speaker 1>reasons people believe the abductions take place. Sometimes a gin

0:26:08.480 --> 0:26:12.800
<v Speaker 1>will kidnap someone they've become obsessed with. Sometimes a person

0:26:12.960 --> 0:26:15.159
<v Speaker 1>is dragged into their world to stand trial for an

0:26:15.160 --> 0:26:18.960
<v Speaker 1>offense they committed against a gin. And sometimes the jin

0:26:19.119 --> 0:26:23.800
<v Speaker 1>snatch up young children or babies, never to be seen again, unless,

0:26:23.840 --> 0:26:27.000
<v Speaker 1>of course, they leave a change link a gin baby

0:26:27.359 --> 0:26:31.600
<v Speaker 1>in exchange for a human baby. Not everyone disappears forever,

0:26:31.720 --> 0:26:36.080
<v Speaker 1>though some return, and interestingly, the accounts of those who

0:26:36.200 --> 0:26:39.080
<v Speaker 1>claim to have been kidnapped by gin in the centuries

0:26:39.160 --> 0:26:42.480
<v Speaker 1>past are often very similar to moderate accounts of those

0:26:42.680 --> 0:26:46.800
<v Speaker 1>claiming to have been abducted by aliens. The reason I

0:26:46.920 --> 0:26:49.359
<v Speaker 1>think this is the most frightening possibility of all, and

0:26:49.480 --> 0:26:51.560
<v Speaker 1>the worst thing a Jin could do to a human

0:26:51.960 --> 0:26:54.840
<v Speaker 1>is because well, no one will ever know what happened

0:26:54.840 --> 0:26:58.240
<v Speaker 1>to their loved one. A missing person, a missing child

0:26:58.800 --> 0:27:02.480
<v Speaker 1>leaves open a gaping wound forever, a black hole of

0:27:02.640 --> 0:27:07.320
<v Speaker 1>uncertainty and fear for those left behind death. In many ways,

0:27:07.920 --> 0:27:22.399
<v Speaker 1>it's much easier to cope with now. The most common

0:27:22.520 --> 0:27:25.560
<v Speaker 1>gin human relationship that most of us have heard about

0:27:25.720 --> 0:27:29.359
<v Speaker 1>is the classic genie that grants three wishes scenario. Someone

0:27:29.440 --> 0:27:32.480
<v Speaker 1>finds an object imprisoning a gin, and the gin bargains

0:27:32.520 --> 0:27:35.560
<v Speaker 1>for their freedom or sometimes rewards it by granting a

0:27:35.640 --> 0:27:39.040
<v Speaker 1>series of wishes. It might seem like a pretty innocuous

0:27:39.080 --> 0:27:42.000
<v Speaker 1>set up, a straight deal, something that seems pretty appealing.

0:27:42.040 --> 0:27:44.440
<v Speaker 1>In fact. I mean I know, as a kid, I

0:27:44.560 --> 0:27:46.640
<v Speaker 1>rubbed plenty of old bottles hoping to gin would pop

0:27:46.720 --> 0:27:49.639
<v Speaker 1>out and be under my command and control. What I

0:27:49.680 --> 0:27:52.560
<v Speaker 1>didn't know is that in most cases the Gin are

0:27:52.680 --> 0:27:57.480
<v Speaker 1>never under your command and control, not completely. Remember, they

0:27:57.560 --> 0:28:01.040
<v Speaker 1>have free will, and they use that to outwit even

0:28:01.080 --> 0:28:05.440
<v Speaker 1>their liberators. No story about a gin granting wishes ever

0:28:05.840 --> 0:28:09.640
<v Speaker 1>ends happily. In the book The Vengeful Jin, the authors

0:28:09.720 --> 0:28:12.280
<v Speaker 1>note that when asked to grant a wish, the Jin

0:28:12.400 --> 0:28:16.320
<v Speaker 1>themselves will often warn the unsuspecting human that they may

0:28:16.359 --> 0:28:19.880
<v Speaker 1>not be happy with the consequences of their wish. First

0:28:19.960 --> 0:28:22.240
<v Speaker 1>of all, say the writers, the gin might be emerging

0:28:22.280 --> 0:28:26.840
<v Speaker 1>from their captivity after thousands of years bitter, resentful, full

0:28:26.880 --> 0:28:31.720
<v Speaker 1>of rage, rage against mankind for imprisoning them. And while

0:28:31.800 --> 0:28:34.920
<v Speaker 1>they may or may not be essentially evil, their experience

0:28:35.119 --> 0:28:38.880
<v Speaker 1>has made them so. That's why, no matter how carefully

0:28:38.960 --> 0:28:41.800
<v Speaker 1>a wish is worded, a gin will find a way

0:28:41.880 --> 0:28:45.040
<v Speaker 1>to outwit their liberator by granting the wish in a

0:28:45.120 --> 0:28:50.120
<v Speaker 1>way that brings the person a lot of harm or pain. Oftentimes,

0:28:50.160 --> 0:28:52.520
<v Speaker 1>in these stories, the person will regret their wishes and

0:28:52.600 --> 0:28:54.960
<v Speaker 1>try to use the last of them to undo the

0:28:55.040 --> 0:29:00.440
<v Speaker 1>earlier ones. Interestingly, a similar dynamic exists in Irish folklore

0:29:00.520 --> 0:29:04.000
<v Speaker 1>with fairies, and as I've noted previously, many people consider

0:29:04.080 --> 0:29:07.080
<v Speaker 1>fairies to be a kind of gin. A common theme

0:29:07.120 --> 0:29:09.480
<v Speaker 1>in these stories is fairy brides who grant their human

0:29:09.600 --> 0:29:13.680
<v Speaker 1>husbands all sorts of wishes, but with conditions. If any

0:29:13.840 --> 0:29:16.560
<v Speaker 1>of these conditions are broken, even if it's years and

0:29:16.720 --> 0:29:21.960
<v Speaker 1>decades later, everything will disappear into fairyland. The husband will

0:29:22.000 --> 0:29:24.760
<v Speaker 1>not just lose everything he gained through his wishes, but

0:29:24.920 --> 0:29:29.720
<v Speaker 1>he'll lose his fairy bride too. Another common theme in

0:29:29.840 --> 0:29:33.360
<v Speaker 1>fairy stories is that they'll put arbitrary conditions on someone

0:29:33.440 --> 0:29:36.960
<v Speaker 1>they've granted a wish to, for example, telling the human

0:29:37.040 --> 0:29:39.560
<v Speaker 1>not to look back as they walk away, or not

0:29:39.720 --> 0:29:42.120
<v Speaker 1>to look at whatever object they were granted until they

0:29:42.160 --> 0:29:46.040
<v Speaker 1>get home. Of course, there's nothing like a restrictive condition

0:29:46.200 --> 0:29:49.200
<v Speaker 1>that compels the human being to do exactly what they

0:29:49.240 --> 0:29:51.600
<v Speaker 1>were told not to, and as soon as they break

0:29:51.640 --> 0:29:56.320
<v Speaker 1>the condition, poof the prize disappears, Which brings us back

0:29:56.400 --> 0:29:59.600
<v Speaker 1>to our original question, what to make of the gin?

0:30:00.240 --> 0:30:04.080
<v Speaker 1>Are they our friends or our foes? Suffice it to

0:30:04.160 --> 0:30:08.080
<v Speaker 1>say that, according to the experts, including the famed century

0:30:08.120 --> 0:30:14.320
<v Speaker 1>theologian Ivantamia, the Jin are generally quote ignorant, untruthful, oppressive,

0:30:14.400 --> 0:30:18.880
<v Speaker 1>and treacherous. There never ever to be trusted. They lie,

0:30:19.440 --> 0:30:22.880
<v Speaker 1>make false promises, they break, are vindictive, and they are

0:30:23.040 --> 0:30:27.040
<v Speaker 1>master deceivers. Their power may have limits, but in many

0:30:27.120 --> 0:30:29.800
<v Speaker 1>ways we are no match for them. Even when we

0:30:29.920 --> 0:30:31.840
<v Speaker 1>think we can control them, it's only for a matter

0:30:31.880 --> 0:30:36.200
<v Speaker 1>of time. And remember time is on their side, not ours.

0:30:37.600 --> 0:30:40.600
<v Speaker 1>If every ying has its yang, then the Jin are

0:30:40.720 --> 0:30:44.480
<v Speaker 1>ours their fire to our earth, fighting for the same

0:30:44.560 --> 0:30:47.400
<v Speaker 1>space on this planet. It seems in many ways we

0:30:47.560 --> 0:30:51.760
<v Speaker 1>are and will forever be pitted against each other, both

0:30:51.840 --> 0:30:55.960
<v Speaker 1>creatures wielding the most dangerous weapon of them all free will.

0:30:57.440 --> 0:30:59.760
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for joining us this week. Next week we'll be

0:30:59.800 --> 0:31:02.040
<v Speaker 1>bad to take you into another step into the world

0:31:02.120 --> 0:31:06.479
<v Speaker 1>of the Gin. Until then, remember we are not alone.

0:31:14.400 --> 0:31:16.920
<v Speaker 1>If you loved today's episode, I'm gonna ask you a

0:31:17.000 --> 0:31:19.760
<v Speaker 1>big favor. Please stop my iTunes and leave me a

0:31:19.920 --> 0:31:23.200
<v Speaker 1>rating and a review, even if it's just one short sentence.

0:31:23.720 --> 0:31:26.480
<v Speaker 1>Not only is that how other listeners discover the podcast,

0:31:26.640 --> 0:31:29.800
<v Speaker 1>but it's also what keeps the podcast going. And for

0:31:29.960 --> 0:31:33.520
<v Speaker 1>every thousand reviews that I get on iTunes, I'll release

0:31:33.600 --> 0:31:37.840
<v Speaker 1>another Patreon episode absolutely free. That's right, We're on Patreon,

0:31:37.960 --> 0:31:40.840
<v Speaker 1>so if you're a Gin enthusiast, check out the Companion

0:31:40.920 --> 0:31:45.720
<v Speaker 1>Patreon series at patreon dot com slash Hidden Jin. Again,

0:31:45.840 --> 0:31:48.800
<v Speaker 1>that's patreon dot com slash Hidden Gin, and remember Jin

0:31:48.960 --> 0:31:51.800
<v Speaker 1>is spelled d J I N N that's where you're

0:31:51.840 --> 0:31:57.480
<v Speaker 1>gonna find an amazing series of interviews between me, scholars, experts, artist, historians,

0:31:57.520 --> 0:32:01.760
<v Speaker 1>and every day lay people who have had extraordinary experiences

0:32:02.080 --> 0:32:04.880
<v Speaker 1>with Jin and everybody can check out the first episode

0:32:04.880 --> 0:32:08.000
<v Speaker 1>absolutely free. It's me and my husband sharing our Jen

0:32:08.120 --> 0:32:10.680
<v Speaker 1>stories and it was a lot of fun. And if

0:32:10.760 --> 0:32:12.920
<v Speaker 1>you have any Gin stories, well, I'd love to hear

0:32:13.000 --> 0:32:16.320
<v Speaker 1>from you. Email me at the Hidden Gin at gmail

0:32:16.400 --> 0:32:19.760
<v Speaker 1>dot com. Once again, it's The Hidden Gin Gin with

0:32:19.840 --> 0:32:22.600
<v Speaker 1>a D at gmail dot com and you might just

0:32:22.760 --> 0:32:25.320
<v Speaker 1>hear back from me, or you might hear your story

0:32:25.520 --> 0:32:28.200
<v Speaker 1>on this show. And finally, don't forget to follow us

0:32:28.240 --> 0:32:31.680
<v Speaker 1>on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram with

0:32:31.800 --> 0:32:36.440
<v Speaker 1>the handle the Hidden Gin. There you can tweet, post, insta,

0:32:36.800 --> 0:32:38.840
<v Speaker 1>dm me. I'd love to hear from all of you,

0:32:39.040 --> 0:32:45.360
<v Speaker 1>and believe me, I read every single message. The Hidden

0:32:45.440 --> 0:32:48.280
<v Speaker 1>Gin is a production of I Heart Radio and Grimm

0:32:48.360 --> 0:32:51.760
<v Speaker 1>and Mild from Aaron Mankey. The podcast is written and

0:32:51.880 --> 0:32:55.640
<v Speaker 1>hosted by Robbia Chaudry and produced by Miranda Hawkins and

0:32:55.720 --> 0:33:00.480
<v Speaker 1>Trevor Young, with executive producers Aaron Mankey, Alex Williams, and

0:33:00.640 --> 0:33:05.080
<v Speaker 1>Matt Frederick. Music for the show was provided by Smithsonian

0:33:05.120 --> 0:33:09.560
<v Speaker 1>Folkways Recordings. Our theme song was created by Patrick Cortez.

0:33:10.360 --> 0:33:13.240
<v Speaker 1>For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the I

0:33:13.400 --> 0:33:17.800
<v Speaker 1>heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.