1 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Emily, and this is and you're listening 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: to stuff Mom never told you. Today on the podcast, 3 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:26,319 Speaker 1: we're talking through a truly troubling but important subject and 4 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: that has to do with the intersection of gender and 5 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:35,239 Speaker 1: veteran suicide. Sadly, there was a new report released earlier 6 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: this week that we really wanted to jump on and 7 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: talk through and parse through to better understand why. There 8 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: are new numbers out showing that women veterans are much 9 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 1: more likely and the data on this is new in 10 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: terms of being able to make these conclusions, but women 11 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: veterans have been found to be much much more likely 12 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: than their non veteran counterparts to commit suicide to take 13 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: their own lives. And we just have to say, this 14 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 1: is a topic that a lot of people might find 15 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 1: hard to deal with and we totally understand. So big 16 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: trigger warning, this is going to be an episode that 17 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: deals with some heavy issues like sexual assault in the 18 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 1: military and self harm and suicide. So, um, if those 19 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: are issues that are complicated for you to deal with, 20 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 1: you should just know that that's going to be the 21 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: topic of today's show. Yeah, and we don't I mean, 22 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: we don't want to be downers about this, but I 23 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: feel strongly that it's important for us to talk about 24 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: these intersections and for us to talk about what we 25 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 1: can do more of as a country and as individuals 26 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 1: to help our veterans, men and women alike well, because 27 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: if we aren't talking about it, if we aren't studying it, 28 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 1: if you aren't getting research and data around it, there's 29 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:43,320 Speaker 1: no way that we're going to be able to properly 30 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: tackle it. So, even though it's not a topic that 31 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: I think anybody necessarily likes talking about or finds cheery 32 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: or uplifting, is a topic that we have to deal 33 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: with because if we're not dealing with it, we're not 34 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: dealing with it right exactly. And what's interesting here is 35 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: that suicide is stereotypically associated with maleness, and in reality, 36 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: it's true that across the broader population, men or people 37 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 1: who identify as men are much much more likely to 38 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: commit suicide than women are across the board. But what 39 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 1: is troubling is this sort of old stereotype of the 40 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:23,079 Speaker 1: older veteran who takes their own life, and of course 41 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: that by stereotypical we're talking about men here. There is 42 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: a lot of truth to that stereotype. The suicide rate 43 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: amongst middle age and older adult veterans remains the highest. Now, 44 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: Researchers have long thought that suicide rates were higher across 45 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: the board for older veterans, but because the v A 46 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: just completed a comprehensive examination of more than fifty five 47 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: million records from nineteen seventy nine through to two thousand fourteen, 48 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: they actually have new research that shows that statistic is 49 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: not true for women veterans, who are much more likely 50 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: to take their own lives shortly after their time and service, 51 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:06,359 Speaker 1: and that finding has some serious ramifications for how we 52 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,239 Speaker 1: implement suicide prevention programming. Yeah, I think when you look 53 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: at folks who serve and then and their own lives, 54 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: I do think there's this this stereotype that it's older 55 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: folks who have long been living with this traumas their 56 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 1: whole lives. Maybe they've dealt with alcoholism, maybe they've dealt 57 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: with you know, addiction issues, they've been exactly exactly. I 58 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: definitely think in pop culture you see this idea of 59 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: the older veteran who's been trying to get it together 60 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: and just suit of can't. And I think shifting the 61 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: way that we think about it along the lines of gender, 62 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: and it's more along the lines of what is actually 63 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,279 Speaker 1: happening in reality. I think it's going to be instrumental 64 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: to how we come at this issue, because if you're 65 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: expecting veteran suicide to look like an older person who 66 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: has been, you know, dealing with it, slogging through for 67 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: thirty years and then this can't handle it anymore, but 68 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: in actuality, it can look like a woman who is 69 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: struggling to readjust her civilian life and can't find out 70 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: she can't. Very early on, I think we need to 71 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: understand what that looks like as well, because the solutions 72 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 1: will differ dramatically exactly. So let's take a look at 73 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: the numbers, because another really alarming data point that came 74 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: out of this new research is looking at and comparing 75 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: veterans versus non veterans suicide rates when it's broken down 76 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: by gender. So if you consider the fact, first of all, 77 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:29,599 Speaker 1: we have to acknowledge that men across the board are 78 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: much more likely to take their own lives, so that 79 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: does affect some of the conclusions you might draw here. However, 80 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: this new data shows that male veterans are more likely 81 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: than male non veterans to take their own lives. So 82 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: if we want to pinpoint the impact that serving in 83 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: the military has on suicide rates, that's almost increase. That 84 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:58,359 Speaker 1: makes you, as a dude, more likely to commit suicide. 85 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:00,160 Speaker 1: That's a pretty alarming number, isn't it. Yeah, it's a 86 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: learning until you see the numbers on women, because when 87 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: it comes to women veterans compared to non veteran women, 88 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: women veterans are two hundred and fifty percent more likely 89 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: to take their own lives than non veteran women. That 90 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: is such a huge difference. That's so alarming exactly. And 91 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,799 Speaker 1: another way of breaking these numbers down, because that percentage 92 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,919 Speaker 1: comparison can be a little bit tricky, is by thinking 93 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: about suicide rates expressed by the number of annual deaths 94 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 1: for every one hundred thousand people in America. For male veterans, 95 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: that figure is thirty two, so thirty two deaths related 96 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 1: to suicide amongst men veterans for every one hundred thousand people, 97 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: versus only about twenty for non veteran men out of 98 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: every one hundred thousand, so thirty two versus twenty. The 99 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:57,159 Speaker 1: numbers for women are away further apart. When it comes 100 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 1: to women veterans, the numbers twenty nine out of every 101 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand people, whereas for non veteran women, just 102 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 1: civilian women, the numbers five, So five versus twenty eight 103 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,720 Speaker 1: much bigger difference than thirty two versus twenty. Now, just 104 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: to add another wrinkle to that data, which I feel 105 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: like is already a little bit complicated, the thing is 106 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 1: is that because many veterans, like we said, are killing 107 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: themselves long after their military service, it's suspected that their 108 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: time and uniform may have little to do with the 109 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 1: reason why they've chosen to end their own life. Many 110 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 1: experts actually surmised that the farther away a veteran is 111 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: from their time of serving, the less and less their 112 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:37,799 Speaker 1: suicide has to do with their time in the military. 113 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: So the same reason that civilians kill themselves, you know, depression, um, 114 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 1: mental health issues, difficult life circumstances, experts think that these 115 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 1: are the same reason that service people kill themselves, the 116 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: longer removed they are from when they served. And just 117 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: to sort of add on to that, most research has 118 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: been focused on men, these these older men who to 119 00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: end their own lives, but they end up missing the 120 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 1: fact that younger women they're actually much more at risk 121 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: than older women when they come home from their military service. 122 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: Unlike men whose suicides predominantly happened later in life, women 123 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: that seem to be much more likely to commit suicide 124 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: in the first few years out of service. There was 125 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: a great quote from Allen's rambo. He writes, the rates 126 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: are highest among young veterans. The VA found in new 127 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 1: research compiling eleven years of data for women ages eighteen 128 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: to twenty nine, veterans killed themselves at nearly twelve times 129 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: the rate of non veterans. It's true the differences between 130 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: female veterans and civilian women in terms of suicide rates 131 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: are much more extreme in that early age bracket, the 132 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: eighteen to twenty nine year old bracket, as compared to 133 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: suicide rates amongst veteran women versus non veteran women later 134 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: on in life. And we are not trying to compare 135 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: women's suicide to men's suicide to say that one is 136 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: at all more important than the other. I just think 137 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: that I get a little bit enraged when I read 138 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: this stuff, because it is clear to me that we 139 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: are failing Our veterans. Are veterans who volunteer to serve 140 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: on behalf of our country, and I get on my 141 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: like patriotic soapbox and get really defensive, not just because 142 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: I got veterans in the family and who I love 143 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: and care for. But you know, there's a lot of 144 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: talk about broken Washington when it comes to veteran care 145 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:22,160 Speaker 1: and the v A in particular, and this data is 146 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: a good first step in starting to improve suicide prevention efforts. 147 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: But it's clear to me that we are not doing 148 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:33,439 Speaker 1: enough for men or women veterans to really provide them 149 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: with the lifelines they need in their moment of greatest need. 150 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more. I'm probably a little less ra 151 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: ra about the military than you are, Emily, just to 152 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: be you know, full disclosure. UM. I have a lot 153 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: of critical things to say about the military as an 154 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: institution in terms of our you know, foreign policy, But 155 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: my main thing is that we've got to support the 156 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 1: individual veterans. We have to support our service people. These 157 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,320 Speaker 1: are the people who are putting their lives on the 158 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 1: line to keep us, to presumably keep us safe. They 159 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: makeing the toughest decisions, They're away from their families for 160 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: so long. I have so many service members in my family, 161 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: you know, being from the South, it was a huge 162 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: part of our upbringing was the military. Um, so many 163 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,719 Speaker 1: of my cousins who couldn't pay for college, didn't have 164 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: this like easy avenue to sort of a comfortable middle 165 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,079 Speaker 1: class life. Military service was how they did that. And 166 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 1: they sort of bought into this, into this dream or 167 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,839 Speaker 1: this contract that if they signed up to put their 168 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: lives on the line to take care of America and 169 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 1: defend America, America would take care of them and defend them. 170 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: And when you look at this data, when you unpack it, 171 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: it's just very very clear we aren't doing that, exactly. 172 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: I couldn't have said it better. And I think when 173 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: you break it down based on class too, it gets me. 174 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,559 Speaker 1: It gets my my more liberal, socialist e side up 175 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: in arms, just as much as my military loving side 176 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: off of myself up in arms, because we're basically recruiting 177 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: troops on like on the backs of our nation's least 178 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,679 Speaker 1: financially stable populations exactly. And so, even as someone who 179 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 1: is very critical of the military, I the fact that 180 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: so many people feel so comfortable crapping on our service 181 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: members when so many of them are are working class 182 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: or don't have these these avenues to middle middle class 183 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,199 Speaker 1: life like other folks might have. It just looks like 184 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,559 Speaker 1: another way to shame and crap on the poor. Yeah, 185 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,559 Speaker 1: and this is so not a partisan issue for me, um, 186 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: because I like to play both sides of the aisle 187 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: sometimes and I can be persuaded. But um, I guess 188 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,959 Speaker 1: I'm a relatively moderate liberal person. But this to me 189 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: is so not a partisan issue at all. And I 190 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: would be curious to hear from our life I'm sure 191 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: we will hear from our listeners on this one. But 192 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: what we need to do next is really peel back 193 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: these layers a little bit more and understand, all right, 194 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: what are some of the underlying causes behind why so 195 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,839 Speaker 1: many of our service members are choosing to end their 196 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 1: own lives. We're gonna go there right after this quick 197 00:10:53,360 --> 00:11:02,959 Speaker 1: break and a word from our sponsors, and we're back, 198 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:05,559 Speaker 1: and we want to talk a little bit more about 199 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: some of the underlying causes behind this troubling information around 200 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 1: the increasing rates of women veterans and suicide in particular 201 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 1: as compared to non veteran women or the civilian population 202 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: of women in the United States. And the first thing 203 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 1: that comes to mind, at least I thought of right away, 204 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: was the impact of PTSD or post traumatic stress disorder. 205 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: We know that a lot of our veterans who have 206 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: come back from the wars in the Middle East that 207 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: we've been waging for quite some time now have been 208 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:42,079 Speaker 1: struggling with PTSD, and that PTSD is relatively new diagnosis 209 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: with ever evolving treatment options. But what I found really 210 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: fascinating is that it appears women are diagnosed with PTSD 211 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: at higher rates than men, despite the fact that men 212 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: seem to experience more traumatic events on average than women do. 213 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: And that's according to a review of over twenty five 214 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: years of research in the November issue of the Psychological 215 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 1: Bulletin by the a PA to American Psychological Association. Well again, 216 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: I think that really just goes to show that when 217 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 1: you think about what kind of service members are the 218 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: ones who we're dealing with things like PTSD, I don't 219 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: feel like we think of women. Yet women are the ones, 220 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: according to this data, who are suffering from PTSD the most. 221 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: You're absolutely right, but the numbers are different between men 222 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,959 Speaker 1: and women in the general population versus men and women 223 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: veterans in the general population. Women are twice as likely 224 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,839 Speaker 1: as men to develop PTSD, Whereas, according to the v 225 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: A or retorneys, basically service members who are coming back 226 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: after they've become veterans, after they're no longer active duty 227 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: military members and they're seeking treatment at the VA, which 228 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: by the way, is a small population that like, not 229 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: every veteran comes back to the v A for care, 230 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: but amongst those who do, rates among men and women 231 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:57,840 Speaker 1: diagnosed with PTSD are the same. And one thing that 232 00:12:57,880 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: I can't help but wonder when we look at all 233 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 1: this data is how is this impacted by the idea 234 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: that not every service member who is dealing with these 235 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:08,199 Speaker 1: kinds of issues might choose to seek mental health? Right? 236 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: Are there folks out there who are struggling who don't 237 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: even get to the level of being studied or talking 238 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:16,080 Speaker 1: to a mental health professional? And how might that impact 239 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: these numbers? I'm just very cuah. I think there's a 240 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: lot more research that needs to be done on this. 241 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: It kind of reminds me of the situation around a 242 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 1: d h D diagnosis, because we're all really socially conditioned 243 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: to think of boys and diagnosing them with a d 244 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: h D and that leads to lower diagnosis rates amongst 245 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: little girls or young women, but that's starting to change 246 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: and correct itself based on those those biases. So it's interesting. Yeah, 247 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I I can't help but wonder how these 248 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: gender biases have impacted even who feels comfortable coming forward 249 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: with these issues, and how that impacts the numbers and 250 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 1: how we're studying it totally. And there's also a neurological 251 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 1: element here that I found really interesting. There was a 252 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: study done by Dr sab Inflict, a staff psychologist at 253 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: the San Francisco Via Medical Center, which she really looked 254 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: at how men and women learn fear, how they experienced 255 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:09,839 Speaker 1: trauma and fear and what was fascinating. This is a 256 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 1: study published in the October twelve issue in the Journal 257 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: of Psychiatric Research. She took ten men and thirteen women, 258 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: all of whom had been diagnosed with PTSD that was 259 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: already across the board, true, and she showed these folks 260 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: various images on a computer screen and zapped them after 261 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: a certain after certain images. It's kind of like, yes, 262 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: she I don't know how this sounds like one of 263 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 1: those studies you read about in psychology one oh one 264 00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: before ethics were involved in science, but I'm sure it 265 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: was just a minor zap. She hooked up electrodes to 266 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 1: their palms so they could uh measure the psychological response 267 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: how how like the sweat response, heart rate, see how 268 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: their brain was lighting up, And after certain images, the 269 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: test subject received a small electrical shock. Gradually the subjects 270 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: these people, we can and to associate particular images with 271 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: something unpleasant. In other words, they learned to anticipate the 272 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: impending shock or the danger, and this is something called 273 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: fear conditioning. What's fascinating is that the researchers found women 274 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: responded much more strongly to the visual cues than men 275 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: when they saw an image that they knew was going 276 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: to be followed by a shock. So it's almost like 277 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: we have higher rates of fear before a bad result 278 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: than our male counterparts do in terms of experiencing trauma, fear, 279 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 1: or stress. That sounds so right to me. I have 280 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: no trouble at all believing that that women knowing like, oh, 281 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: I know something stressful is coming, and that anticipation is 282 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: what generates that sweaty palm fear response. Right. I mean 283 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 1: it also, I mean we're drawing major correlations here that 284 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: are kind of a stretch. But I would also say 285 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 1: it makes me think of anxiety disorders being a much 286 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: more female thing, because that's really what that feels like 287 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: to me, is like the anxiety of an impending trauma 288 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: some kind. As an anxious person, I can tell you 289 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: that thinking about having to do something stressful oftentimes is 290 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 1: the thing. And then you do it and it takes 291 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: five seconds, it's not a big deal, But it was 292 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: that week of stressing yourself out about it that is 293 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: really the tough part. Now, even the researcher herself admits 294 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: that the study was small in terms of sample size, 295 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: and there's a ton more research that's needed because there 296 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: were lots of questions left unanswered. For instance, she says, 297 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: all our study participants had PTSD, so we couldn't arrive 298 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: at any conclusions regarding whether women, as a general rule, 299 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: condition more strongly than men do, or if it's a 300 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: difference found solely amongst men and women who already have PTSD. 301 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: And they didn't examine what may drive the gender differences 302 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: that they found, so it might be biological such as 303 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: hormones or neuropeptides that might mediate those effects. So there's 304 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: lots more research to be done, but PTSD as a 305 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: reason behind veterans suicide is not as simple as it seems, 306 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: even though their fromently connected and correlated. Women and men 307 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 1: experience PTSD differently, So we have to think about our 308 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: solutions and our suicide prevention programming in with the gender lens. 309 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 1: In my opinion, it seems like we come back to 310 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: that position so many times when we talk about mental 311 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: health issues or medical conditions, that we're not studying folks 312 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,360 Speaker 1: all along the gender spectrum in the way that they 313 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 1: sort of deserve to be studied. That we study men 314 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: and then we use the findings from men to to 315 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 1: talk about the issue large or we study women and 316 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,760 Speaker 1: we we use that we were not never hapens, right, Yeah, yeah, 317 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:35,959 Speaker 1: it's usually men. It's usually men. But we don't we're 318 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 1: not yeah, Rara exactly, um no, but we're not allowing for, 319 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 1: you know, an inclusive understanding of how we present in 320 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 1: the world and our and our you know, the diversity 321 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 1: of people who live on this planet. We're not studying 322 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 1: in a way. We're not studying people in a way 323 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: that allows for that diversity, right, Because where do gender 324 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: nonconforming folks fit into all this data right, like if 325 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 1: we only think about it in term of the binary, 326 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,120 Speaker 1: or even worse, just studying men and no one else, 327 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: we don't, we won't get anywhere exactly, although I have 328 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,400 Speaker 1: been pleasantly surprised by how many folks tweeted at us 329 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: after which episode. Maybe it's multiple episodes now in which 330 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 1: we get on our soapbox about this very subject, saying 331 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: this professor at this medical school or this class at 332 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 1: my medical school had intersectionality built into the curriculum, and 333 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: I thought, dang, that is great to hear. Totally. I 334 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: think it's one of those issues that's slowly catching up 335 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 1: with where we are now, and I love hearing about 336 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 1: people's experiences where folks are getting it right so that 337 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: we can finally turn the tide on this issue. Absolutely 338 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: now jumping off to another underlying cause behind these truly 339 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: exceptional and not in a good way rates of suicide 340 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: amongst men and especially women veterans when compared to their 341 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: civilian counterparts. There's another theory out there that I have 342 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: to admit is pretty compelling despite being kind of hopeless, 343 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: uh in some ways, and that is the idea of 344 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 1: selection bias. There's a really interesting correlation between people who 345 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 1: volunteer to join the military and serve their country through 346 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 1: the armed forces versus people who were drafted. So what's 347 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 1: fascinating is that male veterans fifty and older, the vast 348 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 1: majority of whom served during the draft era which ended 349 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: in ninety three, had roughly the same suicide rates as 350 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:33,640 Speaker 1: non veteran men in their age bracket. So this idea 351 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:37,199 Speaker 1: that only younger male veterans who served in the all 352 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: volunteer force and women who have always been serving on 353 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,679 Speaker 1: a volunteer capacity because we were never included in the draft. 354 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,919 Speaker 1: It basically suggests that maybe suicide rates have more to 355 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: do with who chooses to join the military than what 356 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,520 Speaker 1: happens during their service. Well that's exactly what Claire Hoffmeyer, 357 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 1: the v A epidemiologist who led this research says. Hoffmeyer 358 00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:59,880 Speaker 1: pointed to recent research showing that men and women who 359 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: join the military or actually more likely to have endured 360 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 1: things like difficult childhoods, including sexual and emotional abuse. So 361 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,120 Speaker 1: really it could come down to who these folks are, 362 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: what their lives have looked like that end up impacting 363 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: whether or not they choose to end their lives. Other 364 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 1: studies have actually shown that army personnelity before enlistment had 365 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 1: elevated rates of suicidal thinking, attempts and various mental health problems. 366 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,439 Speaker 1: Um but those studies did not break out the numbers 367 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: for women. You know what I think, as depressing as 368 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 1: that theory is, I think what it really points to 369 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,640 Speaker 1: for me is that we as a nation have very 370 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: little in the way of mental health services accessible to 371 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 1: all Americans. People in need of mental health support have 372 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: very few places to turn, and one of which seems 373 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,880 Speaker 1: to be the military. Absolutely, and honestly, I would even 374 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 1: take it a step further and say, not only in 375 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,880 Speaker 1: this country do we need easier access to mental health 376 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: services across the board, but particularly for veterans. This is 377 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,160 Speaker 1: exactly the kind of thinking that drives my own personal 378 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,239 Speaker 1: ideology in terms of being, you know, anti war. If 379 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: we really cared about these people, if you really cared 380 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: about not signing them up for a life of hardship 381 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 1: and a life of dealing with really difficult things for 382 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: a very long time, up to and including possibly taking 383 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: your own life, we would not have policy that makes 384 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 1: allowances for endless war. We would be more careful about 385 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 1: how we how we're speaking about these people and what 386 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 1: we're putting them up against. And another wrinkle in terms 387 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: of why you might see women service members taking their 388 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:30,119 Speaker 1: own lives sooner after returning from service is the huge, 389 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 1: huge epidemic of sexual assault and trauma in the military 390 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: that often goes without any kind of justice of any 391 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: kind exactly. In fact, this past May, there was a 392 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,920 Speaker 1: new report released from the d o D showing that 393 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: showing i would say, mixed results when it came to 394 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: assault in the military and the epidemic that is women 395 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 1: veterans being assaulted and raped without having any recourse to 396 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: real justice in the system. The report found that the 397 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 1: number of service members reporting cases of sexual assault in 398 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 1: went up to six thousand, one seventy two compared to 399 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,159 Speaker 1: the year prior at six thousand eighty two, all of 400 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 1: which was a huge increase, almost increase from when only 401 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: thirty six hundred or so cases were reported. What was 402 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,239 Speaker 1: really weird was to see the d D kind of 403 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 1: double speak on this. They were saying, the fact that 404 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: more women are reporting sexual assault shows that there's increased 405 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 1: trust in the system, and isn't that great. It was 406 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 1: like a real ministry of double speak moment um because 407 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,199 Speaker 1: I read that and scratched my head reading some of 408 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: the quotes from the administration saying how great that was. 409 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:47,400 Speaker 1: But what they said was quote and this is Elizabeth 410 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: Van Winkle, the Assistant Secretary Defense, at a press conference, says, 411 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:53,959 Speaker 1: we see the increase in rates of reporting as an 412 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 1: indicator of continued trust in our response and support systems. 413 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 1: But thank god for Senator cre Sston jilla Brand, who 414 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 1: said in a statement, the truth is that the scourge 415 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 1: of sexual assault in the military remains status quo. Today's 416 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 1: report disappointingly shows a flat overall reporting rate, which is true, 417 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: there's barely any increase, and a retaliation rate against survivors 418 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: that remains at an unacceptable six out of ten for 419 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: a third year in a row. Basically, six out of 420 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,479 Speaker 1: ten women who reported said that they faced retaliation and 421 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 1: we're either squeezed out of the military or didn't find 422 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,679 Speaker 1: any justice through the fact that they reported. Well, that 423 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 1: sure sounds like increased accountability and trust in the system 424 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 1: to me, Emily, I know right well, it was interesting. 425 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 1: The Senator Claire McCaskill, a senior member of the Armed 426 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 1: Services Committee, also a Democrat, said that these numbers show 427 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 1: real continued progress as a result of our historic reforms 428 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: to the military justice system. McCaskill and Jilla Brand have 429 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 1: been loud proponents of increased transparency, accountability, and justice for 430 00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: women victims of sexual assault and raped the military. And 431 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 1: while I for sure know that there's been increased visibility 432 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:06,639 Speaker 1: brought to these issues, that might have to do with 433 00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 1: the increased confidence in reporting, this anonymous survey still found 434 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: that fifty eight percent of victims experienced reprisals or retaliation 435 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 1: for reporting. Not cool, not okay, But I will admit 436 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 1: that the numbers are mixed because this is an anonymous 437 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 1: survey delivered every two years, and the overall number of 438 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: service members who experienced some kind of sexual assault in 439 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: two thousands sixteen was fourteen thousand, nine hundred, down from 440 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 1: twenty thousand, three hundred two thousand fourteen. So that's that 441 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: is a significant you know, almost over five thousand less 442 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,479 Speaker 1: assaults according to this anonymous survey, not that they're all 443 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: being reported. If you look at the reporting, four hundred 444 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:52,120 Speaker 1: people said they were assaulted six thousand plus just over 445 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: six thousand reported. This is one of those issues where 446 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: it's hard for me to even trust the data because 447 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: I know what things like sexual thought and adding in 448 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 1: this code of military silence and sort of what it 449 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: looks like to be a you know, part of the 450 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: part of the like the brotherhood, and yeah, it's like 451 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: you don't turn on your fellow service member exactly. So 452 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,679 Speaker 1: just knowing a little bit about that vibe makes it 453 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: really difficult from even trust these numbers, because for every 454 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 1: woman out there who does report, who even knows how 455 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: many don't you know, well, and you're saying, even in 456 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 1: this anonymous survey exactly, there's got to be people who 457 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: didn't admit it. And unfortunately, there is, without a doubt 458 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,440 Speaker 1: a clear link between sexual assault, rape, that kind of trauma, 459 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: and suicidal thinking or ending up taking your own life. 460 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: And so we can't overlook how much of a deal 461 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: this is. And we really, I mean, we could talk 462 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,240 Speaker 1: all day about the important work being done to end 463 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: sexual violence in the military and how much more needs 464 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: to happen on that front, but we should get Senator 465 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,159 Speaker 1: Delibran up in here. Yeah, you should do that with 466 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 1: us sometimes totally call us. One other added wrinkle to 467 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: all of this that I really found just I couldn't 468 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 1: even really wrap my head around it, and as soon 469 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: as it came up in the research, I was kind 470 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 1: of both shocked that I had never thought of it 471 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: and sort of weirdly just terribly depressed. Is that women 472 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: attempts suicide more often than men but succeed less because 473 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,560 Speaker 1: women usually use pills or other methods. So when you 474 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 1: look at women who have served in the military, they're 475 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 1: much more likely than their civilian counterparts to know how 476 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: to use a firearm, and so they're more likely perhaps 477 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,880 Speaker 1: to successfully and their own lives using a firearm than 478 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: women who are non civilians who are using other methods. 479 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:44,400 Speaker 1: When I heard this this stat I was so sort 480 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 1: of troubled and depressed, but also it kind of it. 481 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 1: I don't want to say it makes sense, but it's 482 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 1: sort of helps explain the inexplicable. It's true that veterans 483 00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 1: Affairs researchers found that the female veterans who did and 484 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: their own lives chose to use guns compared with thirty 485 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,719 Speaker 1: of civilian women. So basically, women veterans are much more 486 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: likely to use a firearm for those ends, and tragically 487 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 1: that sets them up to be more likely to actually 488 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 1: end their own life. Yeah, and I think not not 489 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 1: being someone who serves and not being someone who was 490 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,400 Speaker 1: around firearms that much, I would never that would never 491 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: occur to me, but seeing it laid out in such 492 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: playing detail just crystallizes how sickening and depressing and unacceptable 493 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: this this issue is. Right. The one thing I would 494 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,840 Speaker 1: add is that researchers say that this is enough to 495 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:46,400 Speaker 1: have a small difference on explaining the massively increased risk 496 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: that are women veterans have for suicide than non veteran women. 497 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: But it's not the whole story. There's a lot more 498 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: going on now, one final underlying cause behind some of 499 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 1: these numbers. It makes it especially challenging I think for 500 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:05,199 Speaker 1: women veterans navigating the transition into civilian life. Is this 501 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 1: idea of the double bind that women's service members face. 502 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is that whole solidarity 503 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 1: of the brotherhood that is the armed forces isn't something 504 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: that's super duper inclusive of women. Uh, they might not 505 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: ever feel like they truly belong in such a massively 506 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: male dominated environment. And yet on the flip side, when 507 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: these exact same women veterans re enter civilian life, they're 508 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 1: expected to be warm, loving, caring and ladylike in a 509 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: way that there they haven't been socialized or conditioned to 510 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,000 Speaker 1: be for years, sometimes decades of serving the armed forces, 511 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:47,479 Speaker 1: and that can make them feel like they don't have 512 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: any real sense of belonging or connection in either one 513 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,719 Speaker 1: of those realms. That really sounds to me just like 514 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 1: what so many women go through, where you're never enough. 515 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 1: You're when you're in the military, arry you're not one 516 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 1: of the boys, you're not really accepted as tough enough 517 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: or good enough, and you're always proving yourself. And you know, 518 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: as we know from all the times you talk about 519 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 1: things like microaggressions, I can only imagine how that adds up, 520 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: bit by bit by bit by bit, how it just 521 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: grows and grows inside of you, giving you these signals 522 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: that you're not good enough, you're not worth it, all 523 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 1: of that, you're always being tested, and then after on 524 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 1: top of dealing with that, as if that is not enough, 525 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: going home and realizing the things that were prized when 526 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: you were in the military, that it made you good 527 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 1: at being in the military might not necessarily make you 528 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 1: good at being a quote unquote traditional woman or wife 529 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: or mother. Right, this idea of having to fit back 530 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 1: into this mold of civilian life and what civilian life 531 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: tells you it looks like to be a quote unquote 532 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 1: proper woman. How difficult that must be after then navigating 533 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: this entirely other mind field of the military. I can 534 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: imagine how that just makes you feel set up for 535 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: failure exactly. Danielle Simpson, who works the Vetera Affairs Crisis Hotline, 536 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: in speaking to NPR, she shared this winter, I spoke 537 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: with a female veteran who she had been in Afghanistan 538 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: seeing combat, and so she was really dealing with a 539 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: lot of PTSD and then coming home and being expected 540 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: to be the soft, caring, warm mother and wife that 541 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: she was expected to be in civilian life, and she 542 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,240 Speaker 1: was really struggling with that transition. I mean, I can 543 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: imagine anybody would struggle with that transition. I think that 544 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: women in all kinds of different professions probably struggle with similar, 545 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: similar transitions. But then having it be the military is 546 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: probably just so much more intense and tough, and you know, 547 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: I just can't imagine trying so hard to fit in 548 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 1: in the military, which is this you know, brotherhood BROWI 549 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: hyper masculine, industry aggressive, And then what's supposed to be 550 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 1: good exactly, and then finding that those same things that 551 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: got you rewarded just make you not feel like you're 552 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: doing a good job in your civilian life and back 553 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 1: in the domestic sphere. Like I can imagine that it's 554 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 1: already so difficult to dovetail back into civilian life, that's 555 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,960 Speaker 1: just another added challenge that women face that I think 556 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: is unique. And we know, even going back to the 557 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 1: very first episode that you and I put together for Stuff, 558 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 1: Mom never told you that having solid connections in your life, 559 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: feeling like you have friendships or loved ones who respect 560 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 1: and accept you for who you are, and feeling that 561 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: sense of love and belonging is so foundational to your 562 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: mental health that it does not surprise me that what 563 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,720 Speaker 1: might seem like a trite issue of not feeling like 564 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: one of the guys in the armed forces and not 565 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 1: quite feeling like you belong in civilian life, it might 566 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: seem like not that big a deal, but it adds 567 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: up because it severs your ability to have deep, trusting, 568 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: vulnerable connections and to allow yourself to be fully seen 569 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: and respected. And on top of that, if you're someone 570 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: who is struggling or hard to a hard time. If 571 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,239 Speaker 1: back in civilian life, you don't feel like you have 572 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: somebody that you can genuinely open up to, maybe you 573 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 1: don't feel like you can really talk to people about 574 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: what you're going through. I can imagine that's just another 575 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: burden in another way, that this is so complicated, and 576 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,600 Speaker 1: we're going to talk through exactly what options do currently 577 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 1: exist for folks in that exact situation after we come 578 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: back from this quick break and we're back, and we're 579 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 1: going to talk through some of the resources and services 580 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 1: available to veterans who might be struggling with those feelings 581 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: of depression, PTSD or suicidal thoughts. So something to know 582 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: is that the v A is actually recently made some 583 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: significant progress in terms of healthcare delivery for women veterans. Currently, 584 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 1: v h A initiatives and programs include rolling out enhanced 585 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: women's healthcare, comprehensive primary care from an interested, proficient, and 586 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 1: designated women's health provider at any access point across facilities nationwide, 587 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: UM more mental health care for women veterans, um staffing 588 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 1: of every v A medical center without women veterans program 589 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: manager and training more than twelve primary care providers, and 590 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 1: things like women's health. And while that progress has been 591 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: made back in two thousand eleven when a lot of 592 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:19,040 Speaker 1: sweeping reforms came through to make those improvements, unfortunately, more 593 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: recently than that, Congress has failed time and time again 594 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:27,239 Speaker 1: to provide more resources to really solve these issues. So 595 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: back in two thousand fifteen, Hr. S Seven, or the 596 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: ruth More Act of was introduced and passed in the 597 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: House to really address the epidemic rates of sexual assault 598 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: happening in the military. That act would have allowed a 599 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: statement from a person who had been sexually assaulted to 600 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: serve as sufficient proof that the assault occurred in the 601 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 1: disability benefits claim process, because really, many many veterans were 602 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: being dishonorably discharged and not given their disability benefits if 603 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: they couldn't prosecute through the chain of command, which might 604 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 1: have been part of perpetuating assaults or being complicit and 605 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 1: turning the other cheek to assaults that were happening uh 606 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: in military court processes. So really this was enabling veterans 607 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,520 Speaker 1: who were claiming assault for that claim alone to be 608 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,919 Speaker 1: sufficient for them to gain disability benefits that they could 609 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,719 Speaker 1: have otherwise had access to. Now, despite the fact that 610 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,759 Speaker 1: to pass the House, it failed to do anything significant 611 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:31,279 Speaker 1: in the Senate, where it was sent off to a 612 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:36,839 Speaker 1: committee to basically be researched into oblivion. The same thing 613 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: happened a year later when HR fifteen, the Female Veterans 614 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 1: Suicide Prevention Act, which is much more directly pertaining to 615 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,239 Speaker 1: this topic, was introduced and passed in the House. That 616 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,680 Speaker 1: would have directed the Secretary of Veterans Affairs to identify 617 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 1: mental health care and suicide prevention programs and metrics that 618 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 1: are specifically effective in treating women veterans as a part 619 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 1: of the evaluation of their suicide prevention programs. Basically, it 620 00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:07,560 Speaker 1: was saying, hey, while evaluating all the efforts you're making 621 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,319 Speaker 1: on suicide preventions, we have to make sure that we're 622 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 1: looking at this with a gendered lens, which if we 623 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 1: have covered anything, hopefully that's far. In this episode, it's 624 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,720 Speaker 1: become clear that that's significant, salient, and important. It passed 625 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 1: in the House on February nine and went off to 626 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,080 Speaker 1: the Senate where it's stagnated in a committee and nothing 627 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,399 Speaker 1: came from it. Well, that's what's so frustrating I think 628 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 1: about this issue is that I think both of these 629 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 1: programs sound great, but if we're not actually getting anywhere 630 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 1: on them, what's what difference does it make. I think 631 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 1: if we are actually interested in tackling this issue, which 632 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,800 Speaker 1: as Americans we certainly should be, we gotta get somewhere. 633 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,319 Speaker 1: We gotta get some traction. And I don't think the reforms, 634 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 1: as as good as they are from thousand eleven, is 635 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 1: going to cut it. I think that it really is 636 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 1: going to take some sort of meaningful action on the 637 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 1: part of our lawmakers to make sure that people that 638 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,760 Speaker 1: were not sending people, you know, to preventable early graves 639 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:02,240 Speaker 1: because they served for their country exactly and and ironically slash, 640 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,279 Speaker 1: unfortunately slash. I'm not sure how to feel about this, 641 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,800 Speaker 1: necessarily because the details aren't out yet. But Trump Alert 642 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 1: because Donald J. Trump, the President of the United States, 643 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:19,040 Speaker 1: did in fact issue by executive order a requirement for 644 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 1: Veterans Affairs to take part in a total structural reorganization. 645 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 1: Now they say the v A says that they always 646 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:32,399 Speaker 1: had plans to reorganize and restructure its workforce executive order 647 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,360 Speaker 1: or not so. In the White House and the Office 648 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,320 Speaker 1: of Management and Budget charge agencies to develop comprehensive reform 649 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: plans to reorganize. The VA says that they already had 650 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 1: the basics of their plan in mind, but as of 651 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: right now, as of this recording, those plans aren't super transparent. 652 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,359 Speaker 1: We don't really know what a structural reorganization is going 653 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,280 Speaker 1: to focus on or going to result in. It looks 654 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 1: like they're going to be focused on modernization, an efficiency, 655 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: and all that private sector talk for like potentially outsourcing things, 656 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,720 Speaker 1: but who knows really what that means. To his credit, 657 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: VA Secretary David Schulkin did lay out all of his 658 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 1: top priorities thirteen top priorities to be specific, one of 659 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 1: which absolutely includes veterans suicide. He says combating veteran suicide 660 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,719 Speaker 1: is vas top clinical priority, and he called it a 661 00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:30,239 Speaker 1: public health crisis. So there's there's some reason to be 662 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,319 Speaker 1: hopeful and optimistic that in today's day and age, with 663 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 1: this administration, with this Congress, there's still the potential for 664 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 1: improvement here. I just hope that that improvement doesn't leave 665 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:44,080 Speaker 1: women veterans behind. I hope it doesn't leave women veterans behind. 666 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,839 Speaker 1: And further than that, I would say, I hope it's 667 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,880 Speaker 1: not in a transparent way, because I one of the 668 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:51,759 Speaker 1: things I hate so much about how we deal with 669 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,080 Speaker 1: veterans in this country is that veterans issues are this 670 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 1: thing that we don't if you're a civilian, that we 671 00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:58,880 Speaker 1: don't even have to think about. And I think the 672 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 1: idea of this being done in a way that's not 673 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,920 Speaker 1: transparent will only add to that notion that doesn't matter 674 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:05,799 Speaker 1: what these people are going through, Like who cares what 675 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,960 Speaker 1: veterans are going through? And I think that we as Americans, 676 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 1: all of us, need to be invested in terms of 677 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 1: how our country and our government is dealing with veterans 678 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:16,920 Speaker 1: and the issues are going through. These aren't people that 679 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 1: we should be thinking about, as you know, off to 680 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 1: the sidelines, whose issues that we don't care about. These 681 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,399 Speaker 1: are the people who are keeping us safe every day. 682 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 1: We have a vested interest in making sure that they 683 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 1: are being treated well and that they're being treated fairly 684 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: and that they have the support that they need. Otherwise, 685 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: what the heck are we doing? What is your bid 686 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 1: for Republicans? No? I mean, I want to make it 687 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:43,879 Speaker 1: clear clearly, I hate the military, but I just love 688 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,000 Speaker 1: seeing you know, it's a nuanced right, like like you know, 689 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,239 Speaker 1: um you can be I I totally, and people might 690 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 1: write in about this and I have very hyper hyper 691 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 1: I have intense feelings about the military, obviously, but at 692 00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 1: the end of the day, I think that we need 693 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:00,960 Speaker 1: to be protecting are as people and I think that 694 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:05,200 Speaker 1: what makes me the angriest is that we aren't protecting them. 695 00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:07,839 Speaker 1: In fact, we are failing them, and nobody seems to care. 696 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,359 Speaker 1: And I think that for me, it begins and ends 697 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,240 Speaker 1: with we need to be making sure that the folks 698 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:18,360 Speaker 1: who are making the biggest sacrifices for us, whether or 699 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:19,840 Speaker 1: not you're down with the military or not like that, 700 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:23,960 Speaker 1: like that is accurate, but we are not having their 701 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,440 Speaker 1: backs and that pisses me off. That makes me very angry, 702 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:28,440 Speaker 1: even as someone who is oftentimes very critical of the 703 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,760 Speaker 1: military love it. I couldn't have said it better myself. 704 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,239 Speaker 1: The last thing I want to add to this conversation 705 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 1: is that if you are someone specifically a veteran who 706 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,560 Speaker 1: is struggling with thoughts of suicide, or you know someone 707 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,760 Speaker 1: who might be in that situation, the number one recommendation 708 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,920 Speaker 1: that the v A and everybody out there has really 709 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:55,640 Speaker 1: made prominent and upfront is calling the Veterans Crisis Line, 710 00:39:56,120 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 1: which can be found online at Veterans Crisis Line dot net. 711 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 1: Someone messed up there, you r L purchased there, but 712 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:07,319 Speaker 1: Veterans Crisis Line dot net and it can also be 713 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 1: reached over the phone at one eight hundred to seven 714 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 1: three eight to five five and then pressing one. That's 715 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:20,359 Speaker 1: seven three eight to five five and press one. Now 716 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,040 Speaker 1: that is run by the v A. If that is 717 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,719 Speaker 1: not your JAM, or you haven't had the best experience 718 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:27,440 Speaker 1: with the v A, or don't want to go through 719 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:31,879 Speaker 1: that vehicle. There are also some fantastic nonprofits out there 720 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:35,480 Speaker 1: that are doing incredible work, and one that I found 721 00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:41,760 Speaker 1: really helpful in in compiling many different resources and methods 722 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,920 Speaker 1: for rehabilitation for veterans who are struggling with adjusting to 723 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 1: civilian life or struggling with PTSD and depression or suicidal thoughts, 724 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 1: is called Mission twenty two. Mission two. The number twenty 725 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,600 Speaker 1: two here is somewhat dated now, but it used to 726 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 1: be true that every day we lost twenty two veterans 727 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:04,840 Speaker 1: to suicide, staggering awful. Now that number is is twenty, 728 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:09,760 Speaker 1: but still far too high, and Mission twenty two really 729 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:14,720 Speaker 1: focuses on understanding the nuance behind the underlying causes behind 730 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:18,640 Speaker 1: veterans suicide and has a bunch of different solutions and 731 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,680 Speaker 1: creative ways that they approach providing services to veterans. If 732 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:25,680 Speaker 1: you get a mission twenty two dot com slash vet intel, 733 00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,560 Speaker 1: you'll find all of the ways that you can join 734 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,719 Speaker 1: forces with many different nonprofits and advocacy organizations who have 735 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,279 Speaker 1: your back. I just want our veterans listening to know 736 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:38,440 Speaker 1: that we have your back. We have your backs, like 737 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 1: everyone should have their backs. Our country should have their backs. 738 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,200 Speaker 1: Individuals should have their back, everybody should should be supporting 739 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:47,400 Speaker 1: service people. The only folks missing that MAMO seems to 740 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,319 Speaker 1: be Congress, but that puts you in a long line 741 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,560 Speaker 1: of people that Congress has been failing lately. So I 742 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,160 Speaker 1: hope that you know that we hear at stuff I've 743 00:41:56,200 --> 00:42:01,399 Speaker 1: never told you. UH want to see more veterans continue 744 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,920 Speaker 1: to thrive and strive in our society together and to 745 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:10,799 Speaker 1: feel not alone, especially women veterans who we know experienced 746 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,880 Speaker 1: significantly higher rates of suicide than compared to our UH 747 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:18,560 Speaker 1: non military or civilian women population. So if you know 748 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,359 Speaker 1: a veteran and you haven't talked to her in a while, 749 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,080 Speaker 1: get out there, reach out. Her life might not be 750 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,080 Speaker 1: that different from yours after all, So being the kind 751 00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,880 Speaker 1: of person who facilitates connection can be a life saver. 752 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,920 Speaker 1: And honestly, you never know what someone's going through. You 753 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:34,920 Speaker 1: never know who's putting on a brave face because they 754 00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,040 Speaker 1: feel like that's what they have to do because they 755 00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,240 Speaker 1: need to be a strong person or a tough person. Honestly, 756 00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:41,880 Speaker 1: just checking in on our folks, I think is the 757 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,400 Speaker 1: most important thing. Absolutely so, Smithy listeners, we want to 758 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,600 Speaker 1: hear from you. We know that this is a big, 759 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,880 Speaker 1: burly complicated subject matter that we tried to put together 760 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:54,600 Speaker 1: in a pretty concise uh podcast for you, and I 761 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:56,600 Speaker 1: know there's stuff we missed. I know there are points 762 00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:58,839 Speaker 1: that we want to add to the conversation, and that's 763 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,279 Speaker 1: why it's so critical that you keep this conversation going 764 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,319 Speaker 1: online and in our inbox. You can tweet at us 765 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,280 Speaker 1: at mom Stuff Podcast, find us on Instagram at Stuff 766 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,320 Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You, and as always, we love getting 767 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:25,000 Speaker 1: your emails at mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com.