WEBVTT - Surfing Neanderthals 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:04.960 Welcome Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of I 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:13.960 Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, you welcome to Stuff 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:16.239 to Blow your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:18.800 I'm Joe McCormick. And before we turn the mics on, 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:20.599 or actually after we turned the mics on, but before 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.000 we officially started the episode, we were just talking about, 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:27.480 is there a better eighties action movie than Point Break? Um? 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:30.120 I mean, arguably there there are some definitely some action 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:33.200 pictures that I love more than Point Break. But Point 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:37.840 Break has a purity to it, you know, this like this, this, 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:43.040 this the weird nobility of this band of nomadic surfers 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:47.199 who are also bank robbers. And uh. And then the 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:50.440 man who is pursuing them, a man who must become 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:53.239 a surfer in order to catch surfers. Because isn't that 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:55.440 it meant the old saying in order to catch a surfer, 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:59.040 you must become a surfer. Uh, something like that. Patrick 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:01.000 Swayzy is the key to the movie. Oh and hey, 0:01:01.040 --> 0:01:02.720 by the way, if you're out there some kind of 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:05.440 pedants saying wait a minute, Point Break didn't come out 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:07.240 in the nineteen eighties. How are you saying it's the 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:10.520 best eighties action movie. As we all know, Cinna in 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:15.040 the cinema world the nineteen eighties lasted until nine. Okay, yeah, 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:18.120 I think that's a solid argument. But yeah, this was 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:21.520 This was some some really great sways in this film, 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:25.320 Like sways. He just has such such a unique charisma 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:29.000 that he's it's it's like with with the Roadhouse. You know, 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:32.119 he's he's able to be just so serious in this 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:36.120 role and it's you're you're laughing because it is ridiculous, 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:40.120 but at the same time you're totally buying into this presentation. 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:44.280 He's giving you absolutely the deep seriousness in the delivery 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:48.000 of the lines like pain don't hurt, the fact that 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:50.800 he is is trying to commit to this character who's 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:55.480 like a philosopher bouncer in Roadhouse. Yeah, in Roadhouse, but now, 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:57.680 I mean, essentially, I think he's playing the same character 0:01:57.840 --> 0:01:59.920 in Point Break, and that in Roadhouse he's a pill 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:02.880 asper bouncer. In Point Break, he's the same character. He's 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:08.200 now become a philosopher surfer slash bank robber. Yeah, and 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:10.560 and he's he's tremendous. He just like he eats that 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:12.959 they've seen he's in Point point Break is a great 0:02:12.960 --> 0:02:16.480 example of one of these eighties again, but it was 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:20.600 the eighties. Eighties action movies that is so silly in 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:23.600 a way that like, there are still action movies that 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:27.680 have a great spirit of silliness that aren't like these unpleasant, 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:30.919 self serious action movies. Uh. You know. A good example 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:33.080 is like the later movies in the Fast and the 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:35.800 Furious franchise, which can be a lot of fun, but 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:38.119 they are they're in on the joke, like the rock 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:40.920 is winking at the camera. It's you know, it's played 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:44.280 explicitly for a kind of like wet laughter that like 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:47.840 cars can fly and all this, but that's not what's 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:50.160 going on in Point Break, Point Break, and and some 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:52.600 of the movies like it are just as silly as 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:55.480 the later Fast and the Furious movies, but they're not 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:58.480 they're not winking at you. They're not in on the joke. Instead, 0:02:58.480 --> 0:03:01.720 they've got Patrick Swayzy who stay in himself. Real seriously, 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:04.320 I wonder if part of that is that a film 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:07.919 like Point Break like building on the in a sense, 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:11.040 even though it's an eighties and so technically nineties film, 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:14.400 it's building on like the grittier uh, like a film 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:17.840 heritage of the nineteen seventies that preceded it, and where 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:21.880 whereas nineties films are are proceeding from the eighties films, 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:24.400 uh and so forth to where there's just like the 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:28.320 initial groundwork underneath something like The Fast and the Furious. 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:31.320 It's just that much sillier and that that and just 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:35.360 further removed from like nineteen seventies cinema. Wait a minute, 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:37.560 why are we talking about Point Break? Oh? Yeah, we're 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:40.440 talking about it because this episode is about surfing the indertals. 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:43.760 I mean, it's also not about surfing neandertals, but it 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:49.120 is about neandertals. It's about surfer's ear and uh, surfing 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:51.560 the Andertal's the working title of Point Break that was 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:55.920 on the script. It it's exactly where my mind went 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:59.960 when I first read a very recent scientific paper the 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:03.480 came out about the under tolls and surfers here. But 0:04:03.480 --> 0:04:05.280 but before we get into all that um and we 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:09.800 may come back two point break. As we proceed again, 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:11.840 I want to be clear that this episode is not 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:14.080 really about surfing. It doesn't have that much to do 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:15.760 with surfing, But I do want to point out the 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:19.880 ancient origins of this aquatic practice we call surfing. What 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:23.240 surfing wasn't invented in the nineteen sixties, No, no, no, 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:26.120 And I was looking at a couple of sources on this, 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:28.279 but but one of the better ones that came across 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:32.560 um was a book by Ben R. Finny and James D. 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:35.719 Houston called Surfing A History of the Ancient Hawaiian Sport. 0:04:36.320 --> 0:04:38.800 And uh, it's pretty insightful. They point out that that 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:41.760 all you need really to surf is a surfer and 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:46.080 a board and of course waves um or something standing 0:04:46.080 --> 0:04:47.760 in for a board, such as a canoe, or even 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:50.040 the surfer's own body. I mean, you can body surf. 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:53.880 What you don't need a surfballfall, you don't need a 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:57.440 surf suit. Well, as we'll discuss, it can be very helpful, 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:00.680 especially in the colder waters. Uh. You know, it's just 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:03.520 it's ultimately and I don't know, have you ever surfed, Joe, 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:09.680 Have you ever? No, I've I mean very limited water experience. 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:12.760 I've done like knee boarding, and that's I know that's 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:14.640 not surfing. I'd say that's the closest to that. But 0:05:14.720 --> 0:05:18.039 you've you've gotten up on your knees on a surfboard, well, 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:19.800 not on a surfboard on a knee board. I don't 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:21.760 know how different they are. I've gotten up on my 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:23.760 knees on a floating thing that was being towed behind 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:29.280 a boat. Okay, well a little. It's not close, but 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:31.400 but it's it's enough. We can we can build from here. 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:35.600 So I am not a surfer, but I on a 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:38.880 trip to who I, um, you know, like like twenty 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:42.440 years ago or something. Um, I was encouraged by a 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:44.960 friend to go out and try it. This friend had 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:47.360 surfed before. This is very helpful I find if you 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:50.040 were going to try to surf, uh, certainly go someone 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:53.040 who has at least done it once before, but proverably 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:57.000 somebody who who is more skilled than that. But there 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:59.480 is this kind of magical moment where you're you're pushing 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:02.560 the board, You're you're paddling and kicking, you're just going 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:05.120 as hard and as fast as you can. Uh, and 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:08.200 then it comes this this almost magical moment where the 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:12.400 wave catches the board and suddenly the waves propelling the board. 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:14.520 And this is the point where then you can climb 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:16.520 up on onto your knees on the board. And then 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:18.880 then once you you know, have your figure out what 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:21.320 you're doing. This is where you can rise up on 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:23.520 both of your feet on the board and you can 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:28.240 ride the surfboard like a surfer rides a surfboard. And 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:31.599 it sounds hard. I mean, it's it's it's one of 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:33.560 those things where I definitely would have given up had 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:35.840 I not been encouraged to keep doing it, you know, 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:39.400 to just keep do it again once more. Let's let's 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:41.360 paddle back and then paddle as hard and fast as 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:43.480 you can to try and catch this magical moment when 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:46.640 the when the board catches you. Um yeah, and so 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:50.480 like once so, all you need is a board, the waves, yourself, 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:53.400 and then like the patience and or courage to to 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:55.359 reach that point where you can rise up on the 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:57.560 board and become comfortable enough doing so that you can 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:00.640 manipulate the bird board further. Okay, so of surfing was 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:04.440 not invented by the beach boys in the mid twentieth century, 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:07.719 Where does surfing actually come from? Well, as the authors 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:10.000 at this point out how Hawaii is of course strongly 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:13.400 associated with surfing, and humans seem to have first arrived 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:17.720 at these far flung Polynesian islands by between three hundred 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:22.040 and four hundred ce. Now, longboards would have developed over time, 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:26.040 and the author's guess that Hawaiian surfing is ultimately perhaps 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:29.720 a thousand years old. Yet the principles involved would have 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:32.800 been known to Pacific islanders and the first pioneers to 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:37.920 enter the Pacific as far back as two thousand b C. So, um, 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:39.880 you know, it's one of those again, it's one of 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:44.680 those things where the necessary technology, uh, and and and 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:48.000 ability you know, is not something that were It did 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:51.840 not exist before thousand years ago, you know, conceivably uh, 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:57.200 you know, these more ancient cultures knew of the properties involved. 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:00.640 So we don't know for sure how far back it could, right, 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:03.440 And there's also some debate whether a form of stand 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:06.360 up paddle boarding practiced by the pre Incan civilization in 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:10.080 Peru would have constituted surfing some two thousand years ago. 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:13.600 Of course, that's another thing you get into, you know, 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:16.520 discussions of the terminology. Is it truly surfing, is it's 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:19.400 something else? Are are the people on these paddle boards 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:21.800 ever reaching that point where the you know, the magic 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:25.080 of the wave takes over and propels them. But anyway, 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:27.240 I just I found it. It'll be useful I think 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:29.760 to just think of that as we proceed, uh, in 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:32.280 order to also keep it connected to surfing in some way. 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:34.360 To think of of surfing as this thing that is 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:38.160 at least a thousand years old, maybe older, and uh 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:40.760 and ultimately, just based on the technology involved, is not 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:46.360 all that uh, you know, constrained to a particular portion 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:49.000 of human time. For all we know dinosaurs for surfing. 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:54.320 Definitely dinosaurs. Well, no, the dinosaurs were not surfing. But 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:56.599 I mean, ultimately, to come back to the title of 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:59.720 the episode, when you start wondering if Neanderthals surfed, there's 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:02.920 that really no evidence that they did. But when you 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:06.240 start considering the technology involved, yes, somebody could make a 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:08.720 case for it, and it would be you know, you 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:10.559 wouldn't have be able to prove it necessary that we 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:14.360 wouldn't be able to disprove it. So what we're gonna 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:17.480 be talking about though in this episode is more a 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:20.800 matter of what is known as surfers ear. Okay, Now, 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:23.560 I remember from when I was a kid, people I 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:27.439 knew getting swimmers ear. But that was just like ear infections, 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:30.440 right right, Swimmers ear is is a different thing. Is 0:09:30.679 --> 0:09:34.040 bacterial infection of the outer ear, often caused by trapped water, 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:37.199 so water or debris, it gets trapped in the ear 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:40.160 and it can cause an infection. And uh and depending 0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:44.640 on like the state and condition of your your ear canals. Uh, 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:47.840 some people are more uh you know, have more tendants, 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.719 more a greater tendency to uh to get swimmers eer 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:53.600 than other people. I remember people with swimmers ear being 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:56.720 treated by just getting like ethyl alcohol pulled in there 0:09:57.000 --> 0:09:58.760 or maybe I don't know what kind of some kind 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:02.200 of alcohol alcohol uh poured in their ear. Yeah, there's 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:06.080 just a stest standard swimmer's ear um droplets you can get. 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:08.839 I use some, like just the other day because I 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:13.800 swim fairly regularly. But uh. But but then also not 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:15.360 to be confused with the drops you would get for 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:18.000 a full blown ear infection. Like this is where yeah, 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:21.600 everything is actually getting like more and more painful in 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:24.559 your ear, and that may require uh, some more advanced drops. 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:27.520 But that's not really what we're talking about here. What 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:31.440 we're talking about here is exostosis of the external auditory 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:36.640 canal or external auditory exostosis or e a E, also 0:10:36.720 --> 0:10:40.200 known as surfer's ear. And then the game, Yeah, and 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:42.880 it's it's a condition. It's a condition that affects both 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:47.200 modern humans and our our prehistoric ancestors. So what is 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:51.400 E A E? Well, these are dense bony growths that 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:55.439 that that grow that slowly extend into the auditory ear canal. 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:59.920 Whoa bony growths in the ear canal? Now please read 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:02.679 sure me Robert that these growths are not like spiny 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:06.200 you know, no, No, these are rounded growths um that 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:08.400 you know. Basically if you look at it, if you 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:10.480 look at an image of this, it looks like they're 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:13.840 bony growths on you know, underneath the skin on either 0:11:13.920 --> 0:11:16.480 side that are like that are that are pushing in, 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:20.240 causing kind of a cave in, gradual cave in of 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:23.640 the auditory canal. That still doesn't sound good. So the 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:26.520 question is what causes them? Well, this is where it 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:30.440 gets weird. It is uh, we basically still have a 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:33.439 lot of questions about surfers here. But the widely accepted 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:37.960 hypothesis is the is the aquatic hypothesis, and that is 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:41.080 that it is caused by repeated exposure to cold water 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:45.280 or or in some cases cold wind, but especially cold water, 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:50.480 and it's typically encountered in cold watered in cold water foraging. 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:53.760 Among traditional and ancient peoples as well as among cold 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:59.320 water sports practice today, such as surfing. Coming back to 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:01.839 a question of what is required for surfing, and you 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:05.600 asked about body suits and wet suits or dry suits, 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:07.480 and uh, you know, and and a part of this 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:09.600 is has to do with the fact that, in addition 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:11.680 to having to deal with, you know, potentially being scraped 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:15.040 up against things you don't want your body scraped against, 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:19.560 you're often also surfing in colder environments and uh, and 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:22.440 you want to protect your body from the cold. But 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:26.559 cold water is is also an irritant to the inner 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:29.520 ear and uh, and it is the most commonly observed 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:33.720 irritant that leads to surfer's ear and repeated irritation leads 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:35.960 to this growth. Now, wait a minute, it sounded like 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:41.240 you were alluding to their being potential multiple potential explanations, right, Well, 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:44.840 this is I mean, well, this is the primary explanation. 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:49.400 Um and I did not encounter another explanation that that 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:52.120 was really presented. Basically, it's just there are some mysteries 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:57.160 remain about exactly how it occurs. Uh and uh. Anybody 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:00.240 that's discussing surfers here like is sticking to the equatic 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:04.000 hypothesis here, uh, and then certainly the evidence bears it 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:06.600 out that it's I mean, you look at at where 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:09.320 surfers here occurs, and it occurs in the ears of 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:12.440 individuals who are engaging in a lot of cold water activity, 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.560 be it foraging, you know, pearl diving, that sort of thing, 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:20.200 or surfing. But you know, other forms of irritation can 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:23.800 can can technically cause it, uh, because it's just gonna 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:26.440 result in tissue inflammation in the inner ear. Now that's 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:28.760 gonna happen after just like you have a couple of 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:32.000 bad days in cold water and you get these growths. No, no, no, 0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:35.080 it's uh, this is something that's going to develop over 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:38.360 the years. So typically you see it manifest in a 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:41.520 person during their like their mid to late thirties or 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:44.880 possibly in their forties, lining up with the timeline of 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:48.719 their exposure to the irritation. It could potentially occur earlier though, 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:50.800 but like this is like when you think about like 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:53.880 someone's prime surfing years and at what point they've been 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:57.280 surfing for uh, you know, for say twenty years that 0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:00.120 sort of thing. Uh, it's gonna line up with this, 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:02.319 So you're more likely to see it in people who 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:04.440 spend a lot of time in the water over a 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:07.160 long period of their lives. Right, Yeah, they're spending a 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:09.680 lot of time in cold water, like they're going surfing 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:12.440 a lot, where they're going pearl diving a lot with 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:15.439 with a uh, you know, a fair degree of regularity. Well, 0:14:15.480 --> 0:14:18.800 so it would seem like having bony growths protruding into 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:21.520 your ear canal would not be a good thing. Right, 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:23.920 So for for the for the longest, it's not really 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:27.200 an issue, but you know, it'll reach the point where 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:31.480 you'll have potential complications from your Essentially you're closing ear canals. 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:36.400 That includes decreased hearing capability uh and increased likelihood of 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:39.280 blockage and infection due to trapped ear wax or debris. 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:41.960 And you know, you see generally you're looking at a 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:45.440 five to eight millimeter diameter ear canal, but this can 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:49.920 be narrowed to almost total blockage over time by surfers. 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:53.520 Ere am I imagining that there's kind of a cultural 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:58.720 stereotype where the you know, the the archetype, the surfer dude, 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:02.680 the surfer person uh is saying like, what would you 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:05.960 say A lot? Is that? Is that just my imagination 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:09.040 or does that exist as part of the stereotype. UM. 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:11.960 I mean, there's certain certainly a crossover between like the 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:15.280 surfer stereotype and sort of the the dude and sort 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:20.120 of hippie freewheeling stereotype. I don't know if lack of 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:21.880 hearing is really part of it, but it would make 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:24.440 sense that that it would be right because based on 0:15:24.480 --> 0:15:26.320 what we're discussing here, I mean, this is this is 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:29.200 where you're going to see some potential hearing loss due 0:15:29.240 --> 0:15:32.200 to exposure to the cold water. Now. An important thing 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:35.240 to stress though, is that we only discovered surfers here 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:38.040 in the last century or so. I believe the first 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:42.280 report on it was a German paper by Welker h 0:15:42.560 --> 0:15:47.200 Uber in eighteen sixty four. And uh, and so you know, 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:49.480 we haven't had that long to like really study it 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:51.760 and figure out what's what the deal is with it, 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:53.680 or even to figure out how, you know, ways to 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:56.560 treat it or how to to prevent it. But the 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:58.680 most obvious ways to prevent it are, of course, to 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:03.080 avoid regular cold water activities, UM, which may not be 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:07.040 an option or or desirable for you if if you're 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:09.040 really into surfing or you depend on some sort of 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:12.480 cold water foraging. But I've read that cold water surfers 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:16.880 are six more likely to experience it than warm water surfers, 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:21.600 and sounds like a significant effect. Now, you can also 0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:25.240 wear varying forms of ear protection that will help, ranging 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:28.320 from special plugs to cat special caps to go over 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:31.520 your head in your ear, to certain varieties of wet suits. 0:16:31.560 --> 0:16:34.720 But if you reach the point where where the bony 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:38.560 protrusions have grown to the point that it's an issue, 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:43.320 doctors can also remove the expoptosis with a surgical drill there. 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:46.680 I think two different procedures, two different ways of going 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:50.600 in there and drilling back the bone the bony growths. 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:52.680 And the good news is that if if you have 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:55.440 this done, you'll probably you really probably only have to 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:58.480 do it once because generally, given the timeline of of 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:01.520 them growing back, they can grow act, but you probably 0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:03.600 won't reach that second point where you'll need to have 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:05.520 them removed. All right, looks like we need to take 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:07.280 a break, But when we come back, we will ask 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:13.280 the question of why the these spurs and the ears? 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:15.119 All right, we're back. All right, So we've been talking 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:20.440 about surfer's ear, or the idea of external auditory exostoses 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:23.720 or E A E. And these are these bone like 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:27.000 protrusions into the ear canal that seemed to pop up 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.280 in people who spend a lot of their lives in 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:32.399 cold water. If you're constantly irritating the ear canal with 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:36.080 cold water, these things are likely to pop up. Now, 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:41.160 I guess we haven't addressed yet why they occur. Well, 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:44.160 if you'll think back to the Bible, you have Cane 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:48.440 and Able and uh Able you know was was really 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:50.680 into staying on the land. Cane was a big surfer, 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:53.520 So God punish it now. Um has nothing to do 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:56.480 with that. Now, Now this is another area where it's 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:59.280 there's still a lot of open questions about it now, 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:02.199 so some are you it's essentially like bone spurs, you know, 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:05.520 which these occur either due to these occur you know, 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:09.280 due to constant irritation or stress, generally in the feet 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:13.080 where you have these bony um. You know, protrusions that 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:15.840 are forming in the foot could be quite painful. So 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:18.399 one idea is that it's basically that irritation leading to 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:22.600 growth leading to symptoms. And there's not a lot else 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:25.760 beyond that in terms of why, Like what is the reason, 0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:28.520 you know, because it's like asking what is what is 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:31.359 the reason for bone spurs? What is you know, what 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:35.080 are the reason for for various ailments that afflict us 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:38.040 due to the things that we insist on doing due 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:41.760 to our you know, our our human desire to to 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:45.960 ride waves or climb mountains to ridiculous heights, that sort 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:49.400 of thing. But there is one area where you will 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:53.800 see an argument for a purpose behind all that. Unfortunately, 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:57.160 it's in aquatic eight theory. Oh yeah, So aquatic ape 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:00.320 theory has come up on the show before, and I 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:03.040 think we've talked about how this is one of those 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:08.280 theories that's like that's sticky. It's sticky beyond its explanatory power. 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:12.880 And it's hard to know exactly why some some hypotheses 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:15.119 are like this, but I think it tends to be 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:19.080 the ones that are just the most uh, that offered 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:23.280 the most totalizing explanation for the most phenomena through the 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:27.919 most interesting image. And it does that. It but it 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:32.159 is also widely rejected by science. Yeah, and we can 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:34.160 talk about some reasons for that in a minute. Yeah, 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:36.000 but it does continue to come up, and you know, 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:38.280 in fact, it was it was recently it brought up 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:41.639 and by none other than Sir David Attenborough himself. No, 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:46.240 he apparently on a BBC four um series he talked 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:49.040 about it and he there's something that criticized him for, 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:53.399 you know, bringing up, you know, a redundant scientific theory. Well, 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:55.560 I'm not gonna slam. I mean, you know, we talk 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:58.720 about theories that are not accepted because you know, it's 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:01.360 okay to talk about things. I agree, Yeah, you don't 0:20:01.359 --> 0:20:03.720 have to think something is correct to talk about it. 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:06.879 But it sounds like he was sort of advocating it. Well, 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:09.800 I mean, he has a history of being interested in it. 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:11.800 I read that he also organized the symposium on the 0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:15.080 topic back in But you know, it's like you said, 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:19.480 we discuss theories and hypotheses on this show that that 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:22.199 are you know, sometimes definitely under the category of of 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:27.760 rejected or unprovable. Uh. And I think my my opinion 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:30.000 is that it is okay to discuss these It's informative 0:20:30.040 --> 0:20:33.280 to discuss these ideas, you know, as long as you're 0:20:33.320 --> 0:20:35.880 approaching them with the right attitude and you're not like, 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:40.560 you know, you're not seeking to to prove them, you know, 0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:43.199 in in your discussion of the of of of what 0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:46.679 is unprovable, right, You're not becoming an evangelist for something 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:50.080 based on bad evidence. Uh. Now, So for a brief 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:52.879 refresh in case you don't recall us talking about this 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:55.400 theory in the past, the short version is, I think 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:58.040 that the original idea was that in nineteen sixty a 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:03.120 marine biologist named Alistair already proposed this idea that we 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:07.360 had an aquatic primate ancestor maybe four to seven million 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:10.720 years ago, and he proposed this in this article a 0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:12.920 new scientist. I think he also gave a big talk 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:16.439 about this. I think the idea is that us having 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:20.720 a an aquatic or semi aquatic primate ancestor could explain 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:25.760 many interesting morphological features of humans that distinguish us from 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:28.479 our closest relatives like the other great apes. And there 0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:30.679 are a lot of examples of this, like why do 0:21:30.720 --> 0:21:33.240 we have less body hair than the other great apes? 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:35.560 Why do we have this, you know, smoother skin. And 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:38.320 his idea was, well, maybe we lost body hair and 0:21:38.359 --> 0:21:41.800 got smooth skin to streamline us for swimming, to reduce 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:45.119 drag in the water. Um, why do we have a 0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:48.560