1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:07,880 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 1: Never told your production of iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 2: And y'all, we are back round to our series, which 4 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 2: has been really stretched out. I have done a really 5 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 2: great job in really pulling this string very far, and 6 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 2: we're talking about Western Christianity and how it affects the 7 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 2: marginalized community. And today we are tackling the very controversial 8 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 2: topic of homosexuality and religion. And as per usual, there's 9 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 2: way too much stuff. So therefore, this is going to 10 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 2: be a two parter. So not only is it like 11 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 2: episode I think seven or eight, but it's two parters 12 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 2: to that. So omg, Annie, OMG. And if you're not 13 00:00:57,840 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 2: from the US or in the US, you might not 14 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 2: know the level of controversy we are at, but I 15 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 2: feel like the whole world is experiencing this. But I 16 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 2: think the best way to describe this is that the 17 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,839 Speaker 2: extremists have created a boogieman, which they've done so for 18 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 2: like decades now so they can gain power, and unfortunately 19 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 2: the queer community has become the victim of this at 20 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 2: this point anyway, because between this and you know, the 21 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 2: black community and CRT and anti racist rhetoric. Those two 22 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 2: are the big boogeymans right now. And as a reminder, 23 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 2: much like most attempts by extremist group, this isn't about 24 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 2: just one marginalized group, but is an overall attempt in 25 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 2: a complete power grab by oppressing all the marginalized groups 26 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 2: slowly but surely. So when we talk about how, don't 27 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 2: think it's just happening to one person or one group 28 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 2: of people. This is the trickle down effect. That is 29 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 2: that is a true, true trickle down effect. If we 30 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 2: should say it that way. We're going to go ahead 31 00:01:58,200 --> 00:01:59,560 Speaker 2: and let you know that this is going to be 32 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 2: heated and triggering and most most of you will probably 33 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 2: say is biased because we are looking at this as 34 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,079 Speaker 2: looking at a group of people who are extremists and 35 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 2: for the most part, the minority. And again we're going 36 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 2: to talk about that as well a little bit later, 37 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 2: because we find it absolutely intolerable as it should be, 38 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 2: and that we do feel like this is hateful. It 39 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 2: is hateful, point blank. Again, this is uh, this is 40 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 2: going to have a lot of hate speech content. So 41 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 2: if we're quoting from the organizations or talking about the organizations, 42 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 2: please no, that's not our stance. This is what they 43 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 2: are they are leaning against as to what they say 44 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 2: they believe. There's also a lot of fear mongering of course, 45 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 2: a lot of white supremacy UH tactics as well as 46 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 2: white supremacy overall. Like that's that's the point of this, honestly, 47 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 2: and it's going to be all throughout the topic for 48 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 2: this episode as well as the part two. I'm sure 49 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 2: we'll do another warning there is going to be a 50 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,639 Speaker 2: mentions of rape and sexual abuse and assault, because you know, 51 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 2: the Boogeyman has to have monsters and demons and that's 52 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 2: part of that. So the big start, So sorry, here 53 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 2: we go. So here's the history of Christianity and beliefs 54 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 2: on homosexuality. Christianity has a long history of change, as 55 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 2: we can see from the many types of denominations and 56 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 2: splits within the same denominations and wars that happened because 57 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 2: of that. Just as a reminder, but there's also groups 58 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 2: like Baptists and Presbyterians and Methodists and so many more. 59 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 2: So it's not surprising to see that the beliefs on 60 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 2: homosexuality and the queer community differs throughout. You have specific 61 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 2: groups that believe that homosexuality isn't an issue and is 62 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 2: inviting and inclusive. I went to one church was lovely. 63 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 2: They had a whole series based on Broadway shows. That 64 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 2: sounds stereotypical, I know, but it was actually lovely. You 65 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 2: have those who often say the statement quote love the 66 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 2: sin or hate the sin thing, so may take a 67 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 2: less violent approach on their disagreement with homosexuality, but it's 68 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 2: still disagreements. And then you have those who may show 69 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 2: up to protests and be the executor of judgment as 70 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 2: they believe they have been ordained to fight against homosexuality 71 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 2: by whatever means possible, including violence, fear, markering, and all 72 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 2: those different tactics. 73 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,280 Speaker 1: And with these different levels of beliefs, it's no surprise 74 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 1: to see that there is divisiveness and argument among so many. 75 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: Some would argue that Christians aren't necessarily arguing against homosexuality, 76 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 1: but against sex itself. Many of the early research on 77 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: Biblical teachings refer to many of the early theologists fear 78 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: of sex altogether. Here's a quote from the American Journal 79 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 1: of Sociology. Christian hostility to homosexuality was not directed against 80 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: that alone, but toward all forms of sexual activity. Although 81 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: the New Testament did not look favorably on sexual expression, 82 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: the leaders of the Early Church gave sex much greater 83 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: attention and rejected it far more passionately and completely. Virtually 84 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: all the church fathers Gregory of Nanziasis, Gregory of Nissa, 85 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:17,840 Speaker 1: John Chrysostom, Ambrose, Augustine, Jerome praised virginity and looked on 86 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 1: sex with horror. 87 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 2: Right, And with that they talked about the level of 88 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 2: the creation of the popes, the fathers, and then the nuns, 89 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 2: and why they valued that and how they did this. 90 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 2: So Early American historian John Eastbourne Boswell, who is well 91 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 2: known for his studies on issues of religion and homosexuality. 92 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 2: He was, I believe, a gay man who died in 93 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 2: his mid forties due to the AIDS epidemic. He has 94 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 2: been one of the leaders in this conversation for a 95 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 2: long while, and there's a lot of controversy about this, 96 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 2: specifically talking about Christianity, and yeah, like I said, very controversial. 97 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 2: Spoke of his own findings of this idea of Christian's 98 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 2: disdain and fear of sex altogether. He wrote, there was, indeed, 99 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 2: on the part of many early Christians a feeling of 100 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 2: hostility towards any form of sexuality which was not potentially procreative. 101 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 2: This cannot, however, be shown to stem from Christian principles. 102 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 2: Among other things, there is not a word within the 103 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 2: Old Testament or the New about the non procreative sexuality 104 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 2: among married persons, and indeed, most Jewish commentators have agreed 105 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 2: that anything was listed between husband and wife. It is 106 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 2: a well established principle in several social science disciplines that 107 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 2: there is, however, a class related prejudice against non procreative 108 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 2: sexual acts, and one would expect to find this among 109 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 2: lower class Christians, as among any lower class group of 110 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:49,840 Speaker 2: the society. Among theologians, explicit rejection of all non procreative 111 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 2: sexuality does not relate directly to attitudes towards gay people. 112 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 2: The theologians of the early Church were attempting to impress 113 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 2: on all Christians that they had to see every act 114 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 2: of heterosexual intercourse as the potential creation of a child. 115 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 2: No effective means of birth control was known in this world, 116 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 2: except for abstinence, not even the rhythm method. The only 117 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 2: way to avoid having children was to kill or abandon them. 118 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 2: Theologians therefore wished to persuade Christian parents that they had 119 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 2: to be responsible for the creation of a child every 120 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 2: time they had sexual pleasure. The only other alternatives in 121 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 2: their world, the world in which the early theology of 122 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 2: the Church was formulated, were morally unacceptable. Now, the original 123 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 2: aim of the approach, it appears, was only to protect children. 124 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 2: It was not to attack homosexuality. Indeed, it was a 125 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 2: very long time before this notion spilt over into homosexuality, 126 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 2: but it eventually did, and. 127 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: There has been lots of debate with Boswell's words and research. 128 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: Many have countered Boswell's theories, and they still do to 129 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: this day as Boswell's work has become widespread. Surprisingly, the 130 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: actual word homosexuals appears for the first time in nineteen 131 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: forty six in a version of the Bible. And not surprisingly, 132 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: the different versions of the Bible are not consistent and 133 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: can be inconsistent, and this could be partly due to 134 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 1: the types of translations Latin versus Greek versus Hebrew and 135 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: so on. And then we have the King James version, 136 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: probably the most inaccurate of the versions and other translations 137 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: since then. And let's not forget the apocrypha that is 138 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: not used by Protestants and often spoke of as blasphemis 139 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: by many of the Protestants, or even the Dead Sea Scrolls, 140 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,959 Speaker 1: which many still do not refer to in a biblical context. 141 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: The spread of the idea that homosexuality as a sin 142 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: can be found as a part of the Catholic belief 143 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 1: of natural law, which is now held by other groups 144 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: such as the Orthodox Church and some Protestant denominations, including 145 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: the Southern Baptist Convention and some United Methodist churches. 146 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 2: Again, many believers that hold to the idea of queerness 147 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 2: as a moral failing teach that homosexuality is a sin 148 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 2: that can be resisted with the help of Jesus, which 149 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,719 Speaker 2: is where the harmful usage of conversion camps come in, 150 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 2: which we'll talk about in the next episode. And of course, 151 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 2: the tactics of trying to convert homosexuals have not followed 152 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 2: the tactics of loving the man, but again threatening them 153 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 2: with the scare tactic of eternal damnation and humiliation. 154 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, uh, huh. 155 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:31,680 Speaker 2: Did you ever experience the campus preachers that would just 156 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 2: go around screaming about how you were going to hell, 157 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 2: especially those like it was specifically to like all sex. 158 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:39,560 Speaker 2: Much like what we just talked about before because we 159 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 2: know that that's kind of the pinnacle point for purity 160 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 2: culture all of that. But like we had them talk 161 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 2: about gay people, and we know Westborough Church, that's our 162 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 2: favorite thing to do is to go to funerals of 163 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 2: the queer community and then tell them they're all burning 164 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 2: in hell or hoping that they're gon be in hell. Yeah, 165 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 2: which is lovely in itself. Sry yeah, oh yeah, but yeah, 166 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:03,439 Speaker 2: there's so much to that. 167 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, And there's a famous well, no, there's a famous 168 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,559 Speaker 1: example to me because a Dragon Con every year, there 169 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: is a group that comes. It's specifically one man, but 170 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: it's a whole group and they are spouting this kind 171 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: of stuff and they have like a bullhorn and they're saying, yeah, 172 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 1: like queer people are going to hell. But it's been 173 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 1: very heartwarming in some sense because now we all know 174 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: who it is and we all go and like protests 175 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: against him, and there's a lot more of us. 176 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 2: Yes, you know, that's typically is how it goes. The 177 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,319 Speaker 2: people who come to protest or do these things are 178 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 2: out done by those who are in that community doing 179 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 2: whatever they're doing because they're there to celebrate, so of 180 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 2: course people are coming to celebrate and love their own community, 181 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 2: and then you have three or four people who come 182 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:48,719 Speaker 2: to hate, and so they're going to be outnumbered. 183 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and people like Nart made costumes about it, like 184 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: it's very like signs, it's very dragon. 185 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 3: Yeah. 186 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, I love the signs. It's like this dude's gay 187 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 2: or you know, like not that that's the derogatory, but 188 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 2: like you know the level of light this dude is. Yeah, 189 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:05,839 Speaker 2: he's closetive. We know what's happening type of level. 190 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, a lot of trolling happens to that group, 191 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: but they continue to come. I'm sure they'll be here 192 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 1: this year too. Oh yeah. Now, there are many denominations 193 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: who have turned away from the idea of homosexuality as 194 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: a sin. According to a very thorough wikimedia page about 195 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: the history of Christianity and homosexuality, they say quote minority 196 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 1: interpret biblical passages differently and argue that homosexuality can be 197 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 1: seen as morally acceptable. This approach has been taken by 198 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: a number of denominations in North America, notably the United 199 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: Church of Canada, the United Church of Christ, the Moravian Church, 200 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: the Anklican Episcopal Church, the Anglican Church of Canada, the 201 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: Liberal Catholic Church Friends at General Conference, the Presbyterian Church USA, 202 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, and the Evangelical Lutheran 203 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: Church in Canada. Relatively many denominations have taken this approach 204 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 1: in Europe, including United Performed and Lutheran Churches, the Evangelical 205 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: Church in Germany, Church of Sweden, Church of Norway, Church 206 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 1: of Denmark, Protestant Church of the Netherlands, Church of Iceland, 207 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 1: United Protestant Church in Belgium, United Protestant Church of France, 208 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: Federation of Swiss Protestant Churches, Methodist Church of Great Britain, 209 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: and the Church of Scotland. And I will say my 210 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: mom Presbyterian Church, they are very LGBTQ Fernley. It's been 211 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: interesting hearing her talk about it because she's she is. 212 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 1: She's very open minded, but she's still kind of like 213 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: getting used to the terms. So it's been fun, right, Yeah, 214 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: I would say, like, because she's she is and she 215 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: wants to get it right, and she'll ask me about 216 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: it and talk about it. 217 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 2: It's really cute. I love that. That's the good experience. Yeah, 218 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,079 Speaker 2: that's exactly one of the reasons we wanted to point 219 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,439 Speaker 2: this out. Even though it came from a Wikipedia page, 220 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 2: it was very thorough. If you won't go look at it, 221 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 2: because they do name off to some of these churches, 222 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 2: and I think it's we want to give credit even 223 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 2: though it's the like the bad minimum, but still it 224 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 2: is something to celebrate to know that people who and 225 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 2: I do have many gay and queer Christian friends who 226 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 2: go to church, and I think that needs to be 227 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 2: celebrated too, because they have a strong belief and they 228 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 2: should be allowed to also practice those beliefs. And knowing 229 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,439 Speaker 2: that these churches exist, which I find it not funny 230 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 2: about right on point that you see like Church of Sweden, 231 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 2: Church of Norway, and then we have we don't have 232 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 2: my Church of the US. We did, i'd be super 233 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 2: scary probably. 234 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: Probably, it probably would. And I'll also say as you 235 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: you already mentioned, but just to reinforce the point, even 236 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: within denominations, people fight, because that's one of the things 237 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: my mom is dealing with in the Presbyterian denomination is 238 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: there is a group and some of her families involved 239 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: that think they're too liberal at nour right soon. 240 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 2: So that's how the splits happen I've seen that happen 241 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 2: so many times with my churches, Like they just leave 242 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 2: and they start their own church, and I'm like, what 243 00:13:57,720 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 2: just happened? 244 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, So you know, like, yes, call it out, 245 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 1: it's good, but also not there's still fighting. 246 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 2: It's still a thing. Yeah. But of course this all 247 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 2: has now spilled out of the churches and into politics 248 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 2: and policies. And we know this with bills like the 249 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 2: Floridas Don't Say Gay bills and the anti trans bills 250 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 2: all over the country. The politicians have made it clear 251 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 2: that homosexuality has become a battleground for them. One report 252 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 2: shows that as of June of this year, twenty twenty three, 253 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 2: there have been at least five hundred and thirty anti 254 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 2: LGBTQ focused legislations and yeah, there's a war against the 255 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:36,520 Speaker 2: queer community. And with that, at least sixty eight have 256 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 2: passed and one hundred and twenty two have failed, and 257 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 2: the rest are just either in limbo or still being discussed. Interestingly, 258 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 2: as a side note, there is now a new API 259 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 2: article that just came out saying that the majority of 260 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,440 Speaker 2: Americans believe that the politicians are not working for the 261 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 2: interests of the actual population or what they feel is 262 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 2: a representation of what they want. And I think we 263 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 2: talked about this previously anyway, about the that again, it's 264 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 2: not the majority who is wanting this, yeah, and we 265 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:10,840 Speaker 2: often include us. Again, this is just pretty much the 266 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 2: loud minority that we talked about, which often includes those 267 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 2: with the most power or the most money, usually both, 268 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 2: and they seem to be controlling the narrative and the 269 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 2: policies being introduced or seen as important. So it is 270 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 2: very all like at the surface, where you go to 271 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 2: and who you talk to, because when we talk to 272 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 2: people directly, it doesn't feel like that's anybody's feelings or 273 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 2: that they just the same way with the abortion issue, right. 274 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: But we've also, as we discussed, we've seen kind of 275 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 1: a backtracking because it has become such a pit They 276 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,640 Speaker 1: have become so loud, right, And that's from people who 277 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: are probably already kind of not supportive anyway, but we're like, 278 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: I'll be quite I don't care about it, but now 279 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: it's become this issue again. 280 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 2: For the last decade, more and more people were accepting 281 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 2: of the queer community. Like you said, we've been We've 282 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 2: given as we talked about personal examples are about how 283 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 2: our own families went from they just want to exist 284 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 2: to why are they pushing this in our faces? And 285 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 2: and then also that they're turning our kids gay. Literally 286 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 2: the things that buy my family not to me though, 287 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 2: because I think they know that I would fight them 288 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 2: or make fun of them. I don't know, because I 289 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 2: don't know how to react to that other than to 290 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 2: laugh and be like what because it's so ridiculous to me. 291 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 2: But they have the audacity to say it to some 292 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 2: of the female members who think more like myself but 293 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 2: have always been quieter or newer to this way of thinking, right, 294 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 2: so they don't think that they I don't know if 295 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 2: they're trying to save them and I've put that in 296 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 2: quotes of course or what. But yeah, it's it's very 297 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 2: interesting to see them do that because at once one 298 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 2: time they could give me examples where like this seems 299 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 2: like this is they were born like this. I can 300 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 2: I can see this too. Well, why why are they 301 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 2: doing this? They're making it so loud, They're trying to 302 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 2: get everybody else gay. That the that was in the 303 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,800 Speaker 2: air particles, I heard it. 304 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: I heard that in high school, that it was in 305 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: the water but recently a politician made a lot of 306 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: headlines because he said that. 307 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 2: There's no I feel like they just reached the same 308 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 2: old things. There's nothing new anymore. Be creative, it's true. 309 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 2: Tests can we say that right? Yes? And the Pope, 310 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 2: as in fact, just this year, came out against all 311 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,040 Speaker 2: the anti gay legislation himself. 312 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: Yes. Here's a quote from The Guardian. Pope Francis has 313 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: criticized laws that criminalized homosexuality as unjust, saying God loves 314 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,239 Speaker 1: all his children just as they are and calling on 315 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 1: Catholic bishops who support the laws to welcome LGBTQ plus 316 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: people to the church. Being homosexual is in a crime, 317 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 1: Francis said on Tuesday in an interview, Francis acknowledged that 318 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: Catholic bishops in some parts of the world support laws 319 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 1: that criminalize homosexuality or discriminate against LGBTQ plus people, and 320 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: he himself referred to the issue in terms of sin, 321 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,640 Speaker 1: but he attributed such attitudes to cultural backgrounds and said 322 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 1: bishops in particular need to undergo a process of change 323 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: to recognize the dignity of everyone, and that same article 324 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 1: continues declaring such laws unjust. Francis said, the Catholic Church 325 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: can and should work to put an end to them. 326 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: It must do this, It must do this, he said. 327 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 1: Francis quoted the Catholic Catechism and saying gay people must 328 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: be welcomed and respected and should not be marginalized or 329 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: discriminated against. We are all children of God, and God 330 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 1: loves us as we are and for the strength that 331 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 1: each of us fights for our dignity. Francis said, Uh, 332 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: but of course this is not to say the Pope 333 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: changed the Catholic beliefs that homosexuality is a sin, but 334 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:02,120 Speaker 1: rather that to even him, these laws are cruel and 335 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 1: also a sin, saying it's a sin to lack charity 336 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: with one another. 337 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 2: So you know, kind of good again. Yeah, it. 338 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:14,880 Speaker 1: Could be worse. 339 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 2: Story Okay, okay, but that doesn't seem to make any 340 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 2: difference when it comes to politics. As we said before, 341 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 2: it's not the majority looking to criminalize and discriminate against 342 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:33,199 Speaker 2: the queer community, but small, powerful groups. So let's talk 343 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,959 Speaker 2: about a few of them. Unsurprisingly, the majority of these 344 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 2: who are the head of these movements are a part 345 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,159 Speaker 2: of the Christian nationalist movement, which we'll talk about in 346 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 2: hopefully the final episode, I don't know. In that grove 347 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 2: of the vast majority are white Evangelical Protestants, and two 348 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 2: thirds of that is Republican and independents who are right leaning. Now, 349 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 2: we got this from a study from the PEW that 350 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 2: uses open ended questions that ask about the US and 351 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,159 Speaker 2: whether it is or should be a Christian nation. So 352 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 2: instead of saying nationalisms, as should the US be a 353 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 2: Christian nation and how that works, and the responses varied 354 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 2: on what Christian nationalism was and what specific level of 355 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,640 Speaker 2: Christianity they think should be enforced. So some would say 356 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 2: along the lines of, you know, trusting in God on 357 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 2: the money, that's great, doing the Bible thing which still 358 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 2: coming home, okay, you know when I say the Bible, 359 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 2: going on stand, pledging on the Bible whatever, or being 360 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:32,640 Speaker 2: sworn in. But others would be more specific. And here's 361 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:35,679 Speaker 2: a quote. A nation that honors God and Jesus Christ 362 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 2: and doesn't make laws that fly in the face of 363 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 2: what God has said, and certainly doesn't persecute Christians for 364 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 2: following what they believe the Bible tells them about issues 365 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 2: such as homosexuality and abortion being sinful. 366 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: But within that same study, it does show that most 367 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: people have now associated the idea of Christian principles with 368 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: conservative groups, and specifically to the magat crowds. Here's the 369 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: quote from study. It should mean they followed the teachings 370 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: of Christ. However, now it can mean extremist, moneyloaded white 371 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 1: nationalists pushing their agenda. Another claims it should mean that 372 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,439 Speaker 1: the nation is guided by the teachings of Christ, but 373 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: most Christian politicians wish to exploit religion in a manner 374 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: Christ would not approve. Several respondents suggest that its meaning 375 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 1: recently changed. I used to think it was a positive view, 376 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: but now with the Maga crowd, I view it as racist, homophobic, 377 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: anti woman and another quote. Similarly, some respondents see the 378 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: idea of a Christian nation as political tool. As one 379 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 1: respondent says to me, it means pandering to a subset 380 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: of our population to get money and votes. Other descriptions 381 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:49,399 Speaker 1: in this category include ruled by religious propaganda, pretending to 382 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: be Christian but yet not being Christian in order to 383 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: gain politically, being used for political purposes, and a bunch 384 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,400 Speaker 1: of hypocrites who use God as a shield to do 385 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: say wacky is any things and everyone's supposed to brush 386 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:03,880 Speaker 1: it off right. 387 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, So I found that whole thing interesting because when 388 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 2: I was originally looking at it, and by the way, 389 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 2: this study is from twenty twenty two, talking about what 390 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 2: does this look like for the US? Who are we 391 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 2: talking about and for the longest time, you know, God 392 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,679 Speaker 2: Bless America that is a common phrase, and then we 393 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:24,719 Speaker 2: have a Pledge of Allegiance which also has that, and 394 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 2: then we have the national anthem, which you know, not 395 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 2: all of that. It's swiftly turned in the last year 396 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 2: and a half, not honestly last six years, but really 397 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:37,199 Speaker 2: really coming to this point. And when the conversation we 398 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 2: were talking about groups, I went specifically looking for Southern 399 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 2: Baptists Convention because we know they are a big part 400 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,679 Speaker 2: of the money when it comes to politicians. And instead 401 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 2: of finding articles about what they do, I found a 402 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 2: lot more articles having people trying to discourage Southern Baptist 403 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,919 Speaker 2: Convention members to becoming Christian nationalists. So there's this kind 404 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 2: of balance of trying to figure out where they are. 405 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 2: But the truth of the matter is it's not completely working. 406 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 2: And I'm not going to say that it's Southern Baptist 407 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 2: Conventions because obviously there's other denominations. My church was not 408 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 2: part of the Southern Baptist Convention but a completely different 409 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 2: denomination independent, I believe, and they are way more extreme 410 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,439 Speaker 2: to me than anyone else. I think has everything to 411 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 2: do with being uneducated and have everything to do with 412 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 2: the fact that they are all lower class socio economically, 413 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 2: so that that you know, that's an easy target for 414 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:35,000 Speaker 2: these crews. We know this so, but doesn't mean they 415 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 2: don't exist, because again, Southern Baptist Convention has a lot 416 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,880 Speaker 2: of money, and when we talk about homosexuality, they are 417 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 2: crew number one in this fight. At some fact, we 418 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 2: know that they just recently chastised groups of people that 419 00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 2: have women ministers, like well recently being a couple of 420 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 2: weeks ago. Yep. So they expelled one of their biggest 421 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 2: churches in California because they were disappointed that there was 422 00:23:55,480 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 2: one woman pastor. Ye yeah, anyway, yep, we'll come back 423 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,640 Speaker 2: to that. That's probably like way down the road of 424 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 2: like let's have an update about why everything is awful. 425 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,679 Speaker 2: But outside of that, we're gonna talk about other specific groups, 426 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 2: and one of them is Moms for Liberty. Now we 427 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 2: should mention all of these groups all our multitaskers, though 428 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 2: we are specifically looking at the attacks against the LGBTQ community. 429 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 2: Many of them have been at the forefront and book 430 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:31,639 Speaker 2: bands against the anti racist teachings and so much more. 431 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 2: And Moms for Liberty, who's just been recently named a 432 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 2: hate group by the SPLC, I think others, I think 433 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 2: the Human Rights Campaign has too. The group has been 434 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 2: a force ever since their anti mass campaign during the pandemic, 435 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 2: which is when they were formed out of Florida. By 436 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,439 Speaker 2: the way, y'all, Florida, we love you. We're here for 437 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 2: you if you need us. Here's a quote from the 438 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,440 Speaker 2: recent NPR article. Moms of Liberty, founded in early twenty 439 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 2: twenty one by conservative women in Florida, has quickly expanded 440 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 2: its presence across the country. It has landed national media 441 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 2: attention for its efforts, sometimes successfully, to fight COVID safety 442 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,239 Speaker 2: measures in schools. Band books, limit discussion about race and 443 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 2: LGBTQ identities, and populate local school boards with conservatives. Two 444 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 2: of its founders, Tino Deskovich and Tiffany Justice, provided MPR 445 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 2: with this written statement in lieu of an interview to 446 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 2: respond to the SBLC designation. Here's the quote two thirds 447 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 2: of America's think the public education system is on the 448 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 2: wrong track today. This is why our organization is devoted 449 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,479 Speaker 2: to empowering parents to be a part of their child's 450 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 2: public school education. Of course we know that is actually 451 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 2: not a correct number, or if there is a correct number, 452 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:48,360 Speaker 2: is not what there's implying exactly as in fact, part 453 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 2: of the people would be complaining that because other things 454 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 2: like this the Moms the Liberty are doing is part 455 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 2: of the problem of their education system. 456 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 1: Yes, and we did talk about them in our book 457 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: Banning episode, and we also talked about them in our 458 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:07,800 Speaker 1: recent Queer Update episode. Because they are part of Ron 459 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: DeSantis has had conferences with them. They tried to it's 460 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: still ongoing this battle with Disney, but they try to 461 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:21,119 Speaker 1: get them involved in that. So yeah, they they are 462 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:25,119 Speaker 1: something we should be worried about. And this group is 463 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: heavily influenced and has strong links to the prop Boys, 464 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: many being partners or wives of them. Also, I'm sure 465 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 1: you all know a very problematic group, terrible group. Problematic 466 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: is too is worse than that three percenters, QAnon and 467 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: many Christian national groups they're also connected to. They have 468 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,360 Speaker 1: been busy all over the country leading anti gay protests 469 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,720 Speaker 1: and rallies titled Protect the Children, which is a familiar 470 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: refrain we've heard in this conversation. And here's one example 471 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: of their work which warning it does contain some ablest language. 472 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: The Florida chapter advocated for separating LGBT students into specialized classes, 473 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: quote like for example, children with autism down syndrome. 474 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 2: Right, So we know this is this is going right 475 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:18,360 Speaker 2: back to that track of racist ideals when they would segregate. 476 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 2: And that's a big conversation that we're having in here, 477 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 2: that there's a lot of segregation conversations here, especially when 478 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 2: it comes to the queer community as well as still 479 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 2: the black community. Yeah, okay, very disappointing in all the 480 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 2: ways we also, yeah, and then and going back to 481 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 2: the ablest language, obviously, the whole conversation is this is 482 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 2: not how we do it. There should not be specialized 483 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 2: classes like this. That's not a thing. And that's a 484 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 2: whole different tangent that I should be on that what 485 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 2: we need is more assistance and being able to acclimate 486 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:54,640 Speaker 2: and serve them instead of just pushing them aside, which 487 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 2: is irritating an angers in so many ways. So then 488 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 2: we have the Alliance Defending Freedom. Here is an explainer 489 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,639 Speaker 2: from the SBLC. Founded by some thirty leaders of the 490 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 2: Christian right, the Alliance Defending Freedom is a legal advocacy 491 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 2: and training group that has supported the recriminalization of sexual 492 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 2: acts between consenting LGBTQ adults in the US and criminalization abroad. 493 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 2: Has defended state sanctioned sterilization of trans people abroad, has 494 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 2: contended that LGBTQ people are more likely to engage in pedophilia, 495 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 2: and claims that a quote homosexual agenda will destroy Christianity 496 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 2: and society. ADF also works to develop quote religious liberty 497 00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 2: legislation case law that will allow the denial of goods 498 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 2: and services to LGBTQ people on the basis of religion. 499 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 2: Since the election of President Trump, ADF has become one 500 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 2: of the most influential groups informing the administration's attacks on LGBTQ. 501 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:59,480 Speaker 1: Rights and their specific agenda includes coming after the trans community, 502 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: which we've been talking about a lot lately, because we've 503 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 1: been seeing it a lot lately, with a large amount 504 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: of donations, receiving at least fifty five million dollars in 505 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen and over three four hundred affiliated lawyers and 506 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: judges worldwide. They have made progress in their agenda unfortunately 507 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: and more from the SPLC on the ADF quote. The 508 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: founding board and original funders included James Dobson, a focus 509 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: on the Family, Bill Bright of the Campus Crusade for Christ, D. 510 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: James Kennedy of Coral Ridge Ministries now D James Kennedy Ministries, 511 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: and Don Wildman, a founder of the American Family Association. 512 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: Its original purpose was to oppose the ACLU and other 513 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: radical groups, as well as to fight for religious liberty. 514 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: Since its founding, ADF has expanded its operations abroad as 515 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: it battles abortion, LGBTQ quality, and what it considers the 516 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: myth of the separation of church and state. Originally called 517 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: the Alliance Defense Fund, the name changed in twenty twelve. 518 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: ADF has been funding cases and training attorneys since its inception, 519 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: claiming that it is also quote advocating for freedom and court, 520 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: though it also says is working to change the culture 521 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 1: because it says legal victories aren't enough. In other words, 522 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: ADF is attempting to eradicate the separation of church and 523 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 1: state and graft its version of conservative Christianity onto the 524 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 1: legal profession and the culture at large through its legal strategies, 525 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: the training of thousands of attorneys, and its advocacy of 526 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 1: policy changes at the state and federal levels. 527 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 2: Right. And if this sounds scary, it is because it's working. 528 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: It is. 529 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 2: We just saw what happened in the Supreme Court with 530 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 2: an imaginary discrimination case. Religious freedom case literally didn't happen, 531 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,440 Speaker 2: but she was trying to prevent it beforehand, So this 532 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 2: is bad. Also, I believe this is the same organization 533 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 2: that helped with the cake If you remember the cake 534 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 2: incident where the gay couple was deny service. Yeah, that 535 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 2: they were the ones that came in for that. So 536 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 2: their tactics are specific and precise. Here's some more from 537 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 2: the sblc ADF has several initiatives that help train conservative Christians. 538 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 2: These include a variety of programs designed for young lawyers, 539 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 2: including the Young Lawyers Academy, which schools new US attorneys 540 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 2: and provides opportunities to quote engage the culture and join 541 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 2: a network of Christian attorneys around the globe, and the 542 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 2: Ertae Academy, which launches highly accomplish university students and recent 543 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:42,800 Speaker 2: graduates on a path to future leadership in law, government, business, 544 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 2: and public policy. ADF Academy is a training program that 545 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 2: purports to equip participants to quote effectively advocate for religious liberty, 546 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 2: the sanctity of life, and marriage and family. ADF claims 547 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 2: more than eighteen hundred lawyers have participated ah The organization 548 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 2: also offers the secretive Blackstone Legal Fellowship, through which Christian 549 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 2: law students study under prominent scholars, participate in internships, and 550 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 2: prepare for life and leadership in the legal profession. Since 551 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 2: two thousand, the year of Blackstone's inception, EIGHTYF claims it 552 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 2: has trained more than sixteen hundred law students from two 553 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:28,040 Speaker 2: hundred and twenty five law schools in twenty one different countries. 554 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 2: Day is scary. I don't like. 555 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 1: No, it is very scary, and I think that it's 556 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:41,880 Speaker 1: you know, as you said, this is a minority. But 557 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: they've been effective. They've been effective at really getting people 558 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: like law students, at really spreading this message, at being 559 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: very vocal, at taking like a lot of space and 560 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: making it seem like they are not the minority, and 561 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 1: doing it in other countries like that's aw. 562 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:05,480 Speaker 2: Right, that's that isn't colonization like this is modern colonization, 563 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 2: what the hell? And even grosser. 564 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 3: Yeah. 565 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 2: So with these specific initiatives, they have also written out 566 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 2: specific agendas to go after the quote homosexual agenda. A 567 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 2: book written by an ADF leader titled The Homosexual Agenda 568 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 2: Exposing the Principal Threat to Religious Freedom Today specifically addresses 569 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 2: the again quote homosexual agenda, which, by the way, the 570 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 2: SBLC explains as a nefarious scheme to destroy Christianity and 571 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 2: eventually civilization through LGBTQ people's efforts to secure equality under 572 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 2: the law. To those who believe in this conspiracy theory, 573 00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 2: the LGBTQ are not really seeking equality. Rather, they are 574 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 2: actually seeking to destroy such things as Christianity, the family, 575 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 2: and culture. And I would like to say, between this 576 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 2: episode as well as a feminist episode on Christianity, if 577 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 2: we if that was a thing, I feel like we 578 00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:14,759 Speaker 2: would win, right because there's a lot of. 579 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: Us I know, I know, it's one of those frustrating 580 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 1: but kind of funny things where it's like you're giving 581 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 1: me a lot of power when all I want to 582 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 1: do is like sit and read fan fiction and not 583 00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: really have sex with anybody. 584 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 2: But a right to have my own body and make 585 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,280 Speaker 2: sure to care for and being paid right like I don't, 586 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 2: and just be happy in my own family like I don't, 587 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 2: whether it be you and your fan fiction as your family, 588 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 2: and me and my partner my dog, like let me be. 589 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: Right. 590 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, we sure trying to destroy well now I am. 591 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:54,920 Speaker 2: I'm just playing, not gonna be taking Oh no. 592 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 1: And the book expands on the idea again from the 593 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 1: SBLC SAD by supporting quote the pseudoscientific and dangerous practice 594 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,400 Speaker 1: of so called ex gay therapy to falsely claim that 595 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: LGBTQ plus people are more likely to engage in pedophilia, 596 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: and to claim that schools are indoctrinating children into being 597 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:21,360 Speaker 1: LGBTQ lately. The authors breathlessly claim homosexual behavior on college 598 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: campuses is taking a dangerous new turn the promotion of 599 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 1: sexual relations between adults and children known as pedophilia, which again, yes, 600 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,400 Speaker 1: we've heard that argument a lot. And of course they 601 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 1: add the idea that if civil union is allowed for 602 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 1: saying sex marriages, that it would destroy the institution of marriage. 603 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 1: All to get their. 604 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,880 Speaker 2: Course, which is again one of those big moments that 605 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 2: we haven't even addressed the fact that the majority of 606 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 2: people who have been arrested for pedophilia and child molization 607 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,919 Speaker 2: have been a part of these groups, or at least 608 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 2: think along the lines of these groups, every single one 609 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,239 Speaker 2: of them. Yeah, thus far, that's far. 610 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, we talked about that a little bit more in 611 00:35:58,080 --> 00:35:59,520 Speaker 1: the abuse that they stood. 612 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,799 Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, we're the rings and then the like, 613 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,320 Speaker 2: I'm getting more and more stuff in my feet about 614 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,759 Speaker 2: actual police and police officers and having a ring. We 615 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 2: know there's a case right now that is ongoing on 616 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 2: a military site in which there was a fourteen year 617 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 2: old Indigenous girl taken in trafficked and no one was 618 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,880 Speaker 2: wanting to talk about it. Right convenient. Then we have 619 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,400 Speaker 2: one of the more known groups, Focused on the Family, 620 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,920 Speaker 2: who has famously continued to blame gays for any and 621 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 2: all natural or unnatural incidents, including the Sandy Hook School shooting. 622 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 2: And here are some quotes from the Focus on the 623 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:43,800 Speaker 2: Family quote, the tree of homosexuality bears bad fruits. Sodom 624 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 2: medical acts have not only external consequences like death, disease, 625 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 2: and childlessness, but internal ones. Some of the internal consequences 626 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:57,360 Speaker 2: are psychological, like loneliness and compulsive behavior. Others are moral, 627 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:01,400 Speaker 2: for we cannot violate the human desigs yet expect things 628 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 2: to go on as they are. That road leads down 629 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 2: and down, which, honestly, if I did not know this 630 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:09,440 Speaker 2: was about homosexuality, I would think about some suburban wives. 631 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 2: I think that's that's I'm talking about them. 632 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: M oh boy and their views in anti gay works pawned. 633 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 1: Another religious group, the Family Research Council, pushing more of 634 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: its anti trans and anti queer agenda, reminded the parents 635 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,719 Speaker 1: that the LGBTQ community is coming for their children and 636 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:35,319 Speaker 1: are damaged. End quote disconnected from Jesus. A little bit 637 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:40,240 Speaker 1: about FRC from the SBLC. The Family Research Council FRC 638 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 1: bills itself as the leading voice of the family in 639 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,560 Speaker 1: our nation's halls of power, but the group's real specialty 640 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: is defaming LGBTQ people. FRC often makes false claims about 641 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:56,800 Speaker 1: the LGBTQ community based on discredited research and junk science. 642 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:02,520 Speaker 1: The intention is to dehumanize LGBTQ people, as the organization 643 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 1: battles against LGBTQ rights. In the past, this included stances 644 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:11,279 Speaker 1: against same sex marriage, hate crime laws, anti bowllying programs, 645 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,719 Speaker 1: and the repeal of the militaries don't ask, don't tell policy. 646 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,719 Speaker 1: FRC continues this work, but has also revived long debunked 647 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 1: pedophilia and grooming myths in its work against transgender rights, 648 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: opposition to drag performances, and support for conversion therapy. The 649 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:30,960 Speaker 1: latter is in response to state level and international bands 650 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: on conversion therapy for minors. FRC has amplified and even 651 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 1: co opted some queer rhetoric and social science about the 652 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 1: mutability of identity to imply LGBTQ people can and should 653 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:47,720 Speaker 1: change to become straight and cys gendered, despite research showing 654 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:52,400 Speaker 1: such practices cause harm to LGBTQ children. 655 00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,080 Speaker 2: And it continues to make the case that the LGBTQ 656 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 2: community is a threat to American society. The FRC employs 657 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,600 Speaker 2: several po see experts who have allowed the FRC to 658 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 2: be extremely active politically in shaping public debate. It's research 659 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,040 Speaker 2: fellows and leaders often testify before Congress and appear in 660 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 2: the mainstream media. It also works at the grassroots level, 661 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:19,880 Speaker 2: conducting outreach to pastors to quote transform the culture in 662 00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:23,239 Speaker 2: advancing the cause of religious freedom, which they understand as 663 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,799 Speaker 2: a freedom to discriminate against anyone they find morally inferior. 664 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,840 Speaker 2: FRC has also established itself as a network of churches, 665 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 2: which limits public scrutiny of its political activity, again using 666 00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:43,040 Speaker 2: churches and religion under to continue their biases and discrimination. 667 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 2: But that's not all focused on the family themselves has 668 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 2: been a heavy advocate for conversion therapy, not just their 669 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:54,160 Speaker 2: subset group, including their own center titled Love One Out, 670 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:58,399 Speaker 2: which ironically was sold to Exodus International, which shut down 671 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,919 Speaker 2: in twenty thirteen, and former CEO came out as gay 672 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:06,160 Speaker 2: and even apologized for their role in their harnful practices. 673 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,720 Speaker 2: So I'm not gonna lie. I hate that that happened, 674 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,279 Speaker 2: but it does feel like, yeah, that's about right. 675 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:18,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I know I just saw a headline 676 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:22,360 Speaker 1: that this conversation about the queer community and church is 677 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,600 Speaker 1: playing out in a lot of denominations, as we said, 678 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:25,960 Speaker 1: But I just saw a headline I think about the 679 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,880 Speaker 1: Methodist Church and was saying like they're losing so much 680 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:31,720 Speaker 1: of people who used to go to that church because 681 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,680 Speaker 1: of this this issue. And I know we're going to 682 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:39,400 Speaker 1: talk about it in the part two of this two. 683 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. 684 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,560 Speaker 1: I mean, and when I was in high school, because 685 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,600 Speaker 1: as you said, very important to emphasize like this is 686 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,879 Speaker 1: not it is attack on the queer community, but it's 687 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,480 Speaker 1: an attack on a lot of marginalized people. It's not 688 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,160 Speaker 1: just one group. You and I discussed this, but I 689 00:40:54,200 --> 00:41:00,520 Speaker 1: remember hearing Hurricane Katrina was because of gay people, and 690 00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:02,239 Speaker 1: that was just like a thing we were talking about 691 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 1: as high school. Yeah, but as you said, and you're 692 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:09,960 Speaker 1: totally correct, it's also blamed on black people. So it 693 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,680 Speaker 1: is like those intersections that are so important that we 694 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:13,359 Speaker 1: have to talk about. 695 00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,759 Speaker 2: Ye, so many bad things, and they just want to 696 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,920 Speaker 2: spread all the hate except amongst themselves. 697 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:26,880 Speaker 1: Yep, yep, Yeah, it's supposed to be about love. Oh 698 00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:32,600 Speaker 1: all right, well we do. We will come back because 699 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,200 Speaker 1: there is a lot still to talk about, in a 700 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,800 Speaker 1: lot going on right now that we need to discuss. 701 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,839 Speaker 1: But for now, that is the end of part one 702 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,920 Speaker 1: of this very part whatever of this mini series. I 703 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,880 Speaker 1: love it. We will be that. 704 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,520 Speaker 2: It's not many anymore any We're going to get through this. 705 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:53,080 Speaker 1: We're going to get through this in the meantime. Listeners, 706 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:54,840 Speaker 1: do you have any thoughts on this? If you'd like 707 00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,879 Speaker 1: to contact us, you can our email Stephanie mom Stuff 708 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,520 Speaker 1: at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find on Twitter at 709 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:03,280 Speaker 1: mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff 710 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,960 Speaker 1: I've Never Told You. We do have a tea public store. 711 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,279 Speaker 1: If you want some merchandise, we have a book. You 712 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,080 Speaker 1: can pre order it at stuff you should read books 713 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 1: dot com and on Audible Things. As always to our 714 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,920 Speaker 1: super producer Christina, I know this one was really all 715 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:22,160 Speaker 1: right for a lot of reasons, scheduling and voice wise. 716 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:28,320 Speaker 1: Also thanks to our executive producer Maya and your contributor Joey. 717 00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:30,920 Speaker 2: Yes, thank you so much, and Joey, thank you for 718 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 2: your contribution because they did this a long time ago 719 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:34,880 Speaker 2: and we're still on it. 720 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,440 Speaker 1: We're still working through it. Yes, thank you, and thanks 721 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,480 Speaker 1: to you for listening. Step I Never Told You is 722 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:42,799 Speaker 1: proreection by Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, 723 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,640 Speaker 1: you can check out the iet radio app, Apple Podcasts 724 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:52,920 Speaker 1: or regul listen to your favorite shows.