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Speaker 1: Hey, we are back on. Normally they show me normal

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Speaker 1: it takes, but when the news gets weird, I'm Mary Cathorham.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Carol mark Witz, Mary Catherine. My youngest son,

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Speaker 2: the football playing one, has a concert at school today

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Speaker 2: because he has started playing the trombone and the keys.

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Speaker 2: And you know, the joke about this in our house

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Speaker 2: is my other two are like straight A students, and

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Speaker 2: he's a little fast and loose with the grades. But

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Speaker 2: he's the one who's going to get into any college

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Speaker 2: he wants because a football playing trombone player is just

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Speaker 2: a popular thing.

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Speaker 1: I love a trombone player. That's fantastic.

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Speaker 2: Trombone is like the same size as him.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I could see that. We also

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Speaker 1: had a performance in our house today and I had

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Speaker 1: skated into school like two minutes before my daughter got

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Speaker 1: on stage, as is my way. I love it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but it was lovely, although I always because they go

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Speaker 1: to this little school where they sing these little adorable songs.

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Speaker 1: And I am really good at controlling my emotions in

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Speaker 1: public unless little children sing about Jesus to me, and

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Speaker 1: then it is absolutely embarrassing. I have to stand at

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Speaker 1: the back because I will be sobbing. I want to

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Speaker 1: see this. And then my kids think it's so funny.

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Speaker 1: They're like, every time she comes, she just cries in

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Speaker 1: the back. It's so cute. I can't handle it. I

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Speaker 1: love it.

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Speaker 2: I love it. Ie where little kids sing about Jesus

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Speaker 2: to you and watch you cry, it's.

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Speaker 1: Like really, it's like immediate, immediate, alrighty.

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Speaker 2: Okay, all right. So remember when everybody was like the

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Speaker 2: Democratic Party is over forever and will never rise again,

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Speaker 2: and you and me were like, I think they'll rise again.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're rising.

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Speaker 2: They are rising again. It turns out that one of

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Speaker 2: the two parties did not actually just drop dead after

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Speaker 2: losing a political presidential election. They had things go their

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Speaker 2: way in the off year election, as we've talked about

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Speaker 2: on the show. And now some midterm numbers are out

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Speaker 2: and they are looking absolutely bleak, and yeah, I don't

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Speaker 2: know who could.

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Speaker 1: Have predicted who could have predicted this? Yeah, the generic

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Speaker 1: ballot numbers, which is what pollsters asked to get a

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Speaker 1: handle on, like sort of, you know, if there were

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Speaker 1: a Republican or a Democrat, not specifying anyone whom you

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Speaker 1: have personal feelings about, which way would you go? And

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Speaker 1: We're looking at like a fourteen point spread in favor

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Speaker 1: of Democrats right now. That matches. It's bad. Republicans historically

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Speaker 1: do not run at the same party ID or generic

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Speaker 1: ballot numbers as Democrats. Generally, they often have an advantage

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Speaker 1: on that. But had we had come to parody and

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Speaker 1: even gone beyond Democrats in many polls, and so this

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Speaker 1: one doesn't, it doesn't bode well, I'll tell you that

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Speaker 1: it doesn't.

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Speaker 2: Right, you know, it's the The problem is that the

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Speaker 2: right is mired in I don't use the R word,

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Speaker 2: so I'm just going to say abject stupidity. They loudest

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Speaker 2: voices on our side are like re litigating World War

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Speaker 2: Two and finding Hitler to be the good guy. They're

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Speaker 2: obsessed with Israel and turning our closest ally and yes

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Speaker 2: they are our closest ally into our greatest enemy. Not

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Speaker 2: just like we should stop funding them, but like, actually

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Speaker 2: they're evil and want to bring down the country. They're

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Speaker 2: discussing whether the first Lady of France has a penis.

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Speaker 2: And these are the people getting millions and millions and

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Speaker 2: millions of views, leading thinkers, leading thinkers, yeah, on the right,

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Speaker 2: And so I just can't help but blame the conversations

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Speaker 2: that the right is having because this is what people see.

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Speaker 2: And if I were to see, if I wasn't super

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Speaker 2: into politics and I was kind of pay a little

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Speaker 2: bit of attention and suddenly I'm hearing Hitler is good

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Speaker 2: and you know, elevating the Nick Fointis's, et cetera, I

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Speaker 2: would be like running in the other direction from these people,

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Speaker 2: which is what I feel like the normies will do

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Speaker 2: if the conservative world doesn't get a handle on this

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Speaker 2: and start talking about actual issues that actually matter to

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Speaker 2: real people and make that happen, you know, through the

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Speaker 2: election and beyond.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you have to keep convincing people. And

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Speaker 1: I think this is a good thing. Republicans are still

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Speaker 1: ahead of where they were because turning Latino voters and

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Speaker 1: young voters, particularly male young voters, not young female voters.

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Speaker 1: But turning those demographics into a swing vote is an accomplishment, right,

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Speaker 1: Like those are voters that in the past the left

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Speaker 1: was like, these belong to us. Okay, so you did

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Speaker 1: some work. You turn them into swing voters. They can

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Speaker 1: swing the other way. And that's also, by the way,

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Speaker 1: good for those demographics because people have to compete for them.

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Speaker 1: This is a thing that makes their relationship with politicians

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Speaker 1: more healthy. Well, unless I guess you don't politicians talking

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Speaker 1: to you or trying to figure out what you're into.

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Speaker 1: That's just what happens when you're a swing better. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: they can swing back. And to your point, Carol, if

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Speaker 1: you're not delivering on promises to them, if their lives

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Speaker 1: don't look measurably better, then you're going to run into

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Speaker 1: trouble reconvincing them that the time they pulled the lever

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Speaker 1: for you was did what they thought it would do.

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Speaker 2: You know, yesterday the House unanimously basically, I think one

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Speaker 2: person said no, but passed, you know, releasing the Epstein files.

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Speaker 2: As we've said many times on here, release the Epstein

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Speaker 2: files whatever. But it's irrelevant, it's irrelevant to people's lives.

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Speaker 2: It does not matter. I can make a prediction that

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Speaker 2: there's not going to be anything interesting in those Epstein

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Speaker 2: files that we don't already know. If there were, the

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Speaker 2: Democrats would have released it. Be serious here, But all

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Speaker 2: of this, and again, if you're talking about Epstein and

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Speaker 2: whether or not he was a pedophile or you just

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Speaker 2: like the girls a little bit, younger, or if you're

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Speaker 2: talking about all the topics that I covered in the

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Speaker 2: first few minutes of this, you know, first ladies of

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Speaker 2: France and their penises. I think you're going to find

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Speaker 2: the American people very turned off.

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Speaker 1: Well, and I think too, I'm a bit with the

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Speaker 1: conventional wisdom crowd on the idea of the She's for them,

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Speaker 1: they them, I'm for you ad. That ad was very successful,

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Speaker 1: and I think some Republicans probably over read how successful

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Speaker 1: that ad was. Right. One of the reasons that was

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Speaker 1: successful is a because that stuff is crazy and gone

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Speaker 1: too far from normal voters, but also because it I

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Speaker 1: think it's a signifier of people being out of touch

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Speaker 1: when they care about this thing more than the groceries

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Speaker 1: that you're trying to buy. So that cuts both ways. Though,

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Speaker 1: if you're a Republican and that's all you talk about,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's a righteous fight, it is a

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Speaker 1: righteous fight to keep boys out of women's dressing rooms

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Speaker 1: in the Northern Virginia schools, you should be mad about it.

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Speaker 1: You should talk about it. But if it becomes the

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Speaker 1: only thing you talk about, people will think you're not

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Speaker 1: paying attention to other things. In addition, like I think

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Speaker 1: that the economy buoyed partly by the AI industry and

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Speaker 1: energy unleashing that Trump has had a large part in.

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Speaker 1: He has stimied himself to some extent with tariffs, and

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Speaker 1: you can see that with the admission that, like we're

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Speaker 1: going to remove some of these tariffs, that it'll bring

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Speaker 1: prices down. Now. I think, look, he loves tariffs. He

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Speaker 1: was very clear about it. Yeah, you be lighted on

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Speaker 1: that he likes to make the deals. However, if you

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Speaker 1: are sort of like futzing around with prices and bringing

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Speaker 1: them up in certain areas of people's lives for things

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Speaker 1: they really like, like coffee and bananas, they will react

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Speaker 1: badly to that, right, and they'll notice. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And also, I mean, look, Democrats are also talking about

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Speaker 2: Epstein NonStop. It just Republicans have been unable to capitalize

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Speaker 2: on their distraction. They've been capitalizing quite well on our distraction.

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Speaker 2: And I think that they've also just the Republican being president,

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Speaker 2: like you said, the fact that he does have some

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Speaker 2: control over prices in some capacity, I think that they're

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Speaker 2: able to pin certain things on Republicans in a way

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Speaker 2: that Republicans just haven't been able to do.

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Speaker 1: In reverse, I would also note for Republicans, like, be

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Speaker 1: careful with whatever plan you're coming up with. I know

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Speaker 1: this is like, you know, the chances of that happening

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Speaker 1: are low. But the shutdown messaging. Some more recent polling

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Speaker 1: after all the fallout and after the government has opened

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Speaker 1: back up, shows that Democrats wiped the floor with Trump

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Speaker 1: on shutdown messaging, which is not as it should be.

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Speaker 1: I feel very like, right, where's Brian Stelger crying about

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Speaker 1: a post truth society?

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Speaker 2: Now?

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Speaker 1: When when literally where is Brian? Literally? These people vote

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Speaker 1: fifteen times to keep the government shut but the message

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Speaker 1: that people got was that it was Republicans. Now, I

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Speaker 1: do think that's partly because Republicans are branded as that

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Speaker 1: party shut down party.

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Speaker 2: Sure, yes, but it wasn't them this time.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't. The fact is you have to factor that

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Speaker 1: into the way that you are doing messaging, in the

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Speaker 1: way that you are making decisions. If people are primed

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Speaker 1: to think of you as the guy who does that,

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Speaker 1: you need to be a lot louder or a lot

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Speaker 1: clearer or Donald Trump needs to use the bully pulpit

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Speaker 1: in a lot clearer way. Gosh, that guy talks all

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Speaker 1: the time. But like do it in primetime. Do it

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Speaker 1: in primetime on the networks. Yeah, make them carry you.

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Speaker 1: But I think that is a real warning sign for

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Speaker 1: whatever tactic they take on in the future.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Republicans have some time to turn this around. It's

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Speaker 2: just that we're in such disarray right now that it's

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Speaker 2: almost funny to think back to, you know, not that

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Speaker 2: long ago. Donald Trump only got elected a year ago,

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Speaker 2: and the message around the country was that's it. It's

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Speaker 2: over for Democrats. Republicans are going to win everything forever. Listen,

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Speaker 2: if you listen to Normally, you know two people who

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Speaker 2: were saying maybe not, maybe not.

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Speaker 1: You got to keep convincing people politics is it's you

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Speaker 1: got to keep the politic in gooing. Alrighty, we'll be

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Speaker 1: back on normally in a few minutes. With the scandal,

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Speaker 1: let's sex scandal, this thing good old fashioned fun.

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Speaker 2: We are back on normally. Where Look, is this a

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Speaker 2: sex scandal? It's so hard to say, because let's just

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Speaker 2: put it out there. Olivia Newsy wrote a book about

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Speaker 2: having an affair with RFK Junior where no sex has

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Speaker 2: had and I find that perplexing personally. The book is

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Speaker 2: called American Canto, and it is a tale of Robert F.

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Speaker 2: Kennedy Jr. On the trail meeting Olivia Newsy and the

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Speaker 2: love that developed between them, the insane texts that they

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Speaker 2: sent each other. But again no sex and as far

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Speaker 2: as I understand, not even not even like a kiss,

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Speaker 2: like nothing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we should set the stage to Olivia Newsy for

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Speaker 1: the stage. Don't know. Is like a was like a

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Speaker 1: very up and coming young journalist, got these fascinating profiles,

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Speaker 1: got access to people, I'm gonna say in intimate ways,

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Speaker 1: and by that I mean like she would get these

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Speaker 1: one on one profiles where she spent a lot of

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Speaker 1: time with folks and would turn out interesting work about them,

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Speaker 1: like high level political people. Then she blew up her

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Speaker 1: career to some extent by having this sexting relationship and

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Speaker 1: probably seems like infatuation with RFK Junior. While she was

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Speaker 1: covering him, she was also at the time engaged to

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Speaker 1: Ryan Liza, who is another political figure, wrote for Politico

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Speaker 1: for a long time, has written for Esquire all sorts

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Speaker 1: of outlets, and so this became public. She then went

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Speaker 1: after him in court saying he's like blackmailing me and

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Speaker 1: all sorts of things. Ryan stock up for himself and

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Speaker 1: was like, no, no, no, none of that is happening, right,

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Speaker 1: she writes this book, at which point we find out,

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Speaker 1: by the way via some of these excerpts, did she

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Speaker 1: just have really good before because I remember her writing

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Speaker 1: being better than this. And then Ryan Liza, on the

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Speaker 1: release of this book, is apparently mad that she said like,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to talk about this anymore if you

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Speaker 1: won't talk about this anymore, and then wrote a book

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Speaker 1: and then wrote a whole book mm hmm, and Ryan

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Speaker 1: Liza is like, okay, I will write about the Danieu

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Speaker 1: mal the unraveling of this relationship. And it's a it's

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Speaker 1: a subset post essentially entitled How I found Out?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the How I found out? Man just texting you

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Speaker 2: as I'm reading it, And then I'm reading How he

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Speaker 2: found Out? And he's actually a beautiful writer.

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Speaker 1: You don't think his final revenge is that he is a.

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Speaker 2: Well done And he finds a note about a water

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Speaker 2: tower and how she would drink all the water and

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Speaker 2: the water tower above his house or and and then

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Speaker 2: he's like, I don't have a water tower, but that's

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Speaker 2: not about me. Yeah, And then we get to the

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Speaker 2: end and we find out.

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Speaker 1: That because the whole time you're thinking it's RFK Junior.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, spoiler alert, because y'all don't never read. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: y'all don't need to read six pieces about this sex scandal.

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Speaker 1: We're just going to tell you about it. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to tell you about it.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna we're going to give you the away, the ending.

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Speaker 2: You get to the bottom. And it's from twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: and she slept with then candidate Mark Sandford. Now, if

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Speaker 2: you don't remember who Mark Sandford is, he was governor

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Speaker 2: of South Carolina, and he went missing for a few days,

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Speaker 2: and then he came back and said he was hiking

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Speaker 2: the Applechian Trail, but in fact he was having like

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Speaker 2: a full blown affair with some woman in South America

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Speaker 2: while totally married and in the governor's mansion.

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Speaker 1: Correct. Yes, he went away.

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Speaker 2: For a few years, came back as senator.

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Speaker 3: I believe no, No, he's a house member, house member,

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Speaker 3: and then ran for president and she, Olivia Newsoo, profiled

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Speaker 3: him and ended up sleeping with him, allegedly.

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Speaker 2: At his South Carolina home. That was some good revenge

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Speaker 2: because that piece was like everybody pretty much was like you.

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Speaker 1: Got to read this. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 1: Also revealed in this piece is that she had a

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Speaker 1: long time, long term relationship with Keith Olberman, Yeah, who

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Speaker 1: paid for a lot of high end jewelry and clothing

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Speaker 1: and a place for her in New York City and

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Speaker 1: that Ryan quote you know her from this entanglement. Oh oh,

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Speaker 1: the entanglement where I get all the Cardier and the

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Speaker 1: nice bags.

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Speaker 2: But Keith Olberman.

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Speaker 1: Look this, there's there is a thing about this story

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Speaker 1: that annoys me in a very specific way, because tell me,

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Speaker 1: I don't love when people can't hold their ish together

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Speaker 1: in public under rather minor duress, when.

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Speaker 2: I actually no duress at all, no, no.

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Speaker 1: Dress at all, Cardier bracelets and a burgeoning, beautiful career,

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Speaker 1: when I have held mine together under extreme duress in public.

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Speaker 1: And I don't like that it pays to unravel like

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Speaker 1: this in public. I don't think it's healthy for her,

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Speaker 1: or for the audience, or for media. And I actually

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Speaker 1: kind of wonder if this is like a last gasp

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Speaker 1: media scandal. It feels like very very old fashioned.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I actually was speaking on a college campus the

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Speaker 1: last night and asked if anyone knew who this person was?

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Speaker 1: Not one right, No, one knew who this was. And

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Speaker 1: in the media world, these people are important, right they

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Speaker 1: have cachet totally, Yes, in another generation.

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Speaker 2: None, right, I had to explain this story, not had to.

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Speaker 2: I chose to explain this story to a lot of

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Speaker 2: normies in my life, including my sister in law who's visiting,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, Okay, you don't know who any

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Speaker 2: of these people are. Yes, but like you know, we

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Speaker 2: have to stop for every Like you know Keith Olberman,

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Speaker 2: he used to be on ESPN, but now he's like

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Speaker 2: this internet lunatic who just screams at people.

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Speaker 1: This is the problem. Everyone's arc is so long. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, the normies enjoyed the gossip and

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Speaker 2: then they went on about their lives. They will not

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Speaker 2: remember who these people are going forward. They don't matter

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Speaker 2: to them at all. I wish them all the best.

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Speaker 2: I wish them all the best.

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Speaker 1: I'm a bit of a grump about this story because

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Speaker 1: it is fascinating to talk about it, and it makes

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Speaker 1: me like a little annoyed with myself that I find

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Speaker 1: it so fascinating because I don't want to be into that,

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Speaker 1: and also I'm annoyed at the playing into the stereotype

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Speaker 1: of this Songeen new smart young woman who I think

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Speaker 1: in many ways was a talented reporter, right, and now

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Speaker 1: everything she's done is tainted and I that's not a pun,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know.

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Speaker 2: What it is real, but it actually, guys, is a pun.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what's real and what's not. And that

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Speaker 1: is part of the problem with modern media, such a problem. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: her version of getting access is so much more lude

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Speaker 1: and obvious, but like the bias and the access gaining

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Speaker 1: that she's doing is just a dirtier form of what

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Speaker 1: we've seen in many other places, and you can't trust it.

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Speaker 1: You can't trust these people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, where like where does the information come from? On

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Speaker 2: my one of my group chats, my Florida group chat,

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Speaker 2: they have a running joke that I get my tips

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Speaker 2: from Hunter Biden. Like occasionally I get, you know, a

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Speaker 2: big tip, and they're sort of random, my big tips

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Speaker 2: because I have a lot of tipsters, and they're like, okay,

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Speaker 2: it has to be Hunter Biden, like somebody like really

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Speaker 2: high up. And so I just want to say, I

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Speaker 2: have not slept with Hunter Biden for any of these tips.

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Speaker 1: Thank goodness, thank you. There is a thing here where where,

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Speaker 1: particularly for women who are in the industry, When something

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Speaker 1: like this happens, it makes everyone suspect suspect just as

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Speaker 1: like that's the problem with sexual harassment and systematic abuse

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Speaker 1: like happened with Roger Ailes. Is like everyone looks around

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Speaker 1: and goes, oh, you must have done that too, because

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Speaker 1: you were young when you got hired at Fox, and

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Speaker 1: to which I have a very good answer, which is

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Speaker 1: rodri Aiels was neither professionally norse actually interested in me,

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Speaker 1: and athletics were not their thing over there, so I

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Speaker 1: was like in the clear. But it does not feel good. No,

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Speaker 1: it does have every woman looked at in this way

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Speaker 1: and think, well, how does she get that interview?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Who's associated Olivia? I don't appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: We'll be right back with more on normally and slightly

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Speaker 2: less sexy topic, but let's talk about education some more.

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Speaker 2: We are back on normally, where it turns out that

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Speaker 2: there is a sharp decline in the number of families

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Speaker 2: with young children, and that that's under five in major

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Speaker 2: cities in the last like almost twenty years. It looks

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Speaker 2: at from two thousand and five to twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 2: Chicago had a thirty one percent drop, Boston thirty three percent,

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Speaker 2: New York thirty four percent, La thirty six percent, San

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Speaker 2: Francisco thirty eight percent. And the cities that have gained

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Speaker 2: population are Austin, Orlando, Raleigh, Charlotte, Dallas, and some others. Now,

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Speaker 2: as my kids like to say, one hundred percent of

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Speaker 2: the people who confuse correlation with causation die. But I'm

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Speaker 2: going to risk it and correlate anyway and point out

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Speaker 2: that all of the places with this population drop were

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Speaker 2: the strictest on schools reopening, and the places with the

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Speaker 2: big gains weren't now one hundred five years old. Means

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Speaker 2: these people are not kids are not in school yet.

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Speaker 2: But I think that a message was sent to parents

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Speaker 2: and it was well received. Where schools were closed for

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Speaker 2: over a year, you know, a year and a half

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Speaker 2: in a lot of places, and parents got the message

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Speaker 2: at schools just weren't important. And just to clarify, of course,

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Speaker 2: only public schools were closed. Private schools were open. Parents

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Speaker 2: got the message public schools cannot be relied on in

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Speaker 2: these cities, and they left.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think American cities liberal American cities during the

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty to twenty twenty three, and look, I want

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Speaker 1: these cities to succeed, sure, but too I looked at

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Speaker 1: them and was like, you guys are committing suicide. You

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Speaker 1: are already the cost of living is so high, and

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Speaker 1: the cost of living is so high for some perks.

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Speaker 1: And the perks are like activities and theater and music

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Speaker 1: and good dying food. Yes, all those things, right, And

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Speaker 1: then what did you do? You took away the perks,

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Speaker 1: but you left the cost of living. And then you

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Speaker 1: added some public safety disarray, just like danger everywhere, chaos, vandalism.

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Speaker 1: And then you tell people when they say it's hard

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Speaker 1: for me to raise children here, this is just the

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Speaker 1: cost of doing business.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, right, it's always been like this, Like no, I

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Speaker 2: really wasn't always like this.

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Speaker 1: And that is not an acceptable answer to them. So

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Speaker 1: what happens is they go, I don't know, this seems hard,

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Speaker 1: dangerous and expensive. I think I'll move on to somewhere

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Speaker 1: like Raleigh, where I can get a decent little piece

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Speaker 1: of land with a decent home on it for a

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Speaker 1: much lower price and there aren't vagrants on every corner

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Speaker 1: because it's a different style of governs than it is

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Speaker 1: in my city, and you're right, Carol. The schools are

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Speaker 1: a huge part of this. I know, of course, like

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Speaker 1: people I know in DC, it's basically understood that none

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Speaker 1: of them are sending their kids to public schools there.

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Speaker 1: That's just not even a possibility. It's off the table.

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Speaker 1: So it's this other huge expense on top of living

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Speaker 1: in an expensive city. And by the way, what do

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Speaker 1: you get for sending your kids to those schools? Well,

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Speaker 1: I have a still mad about it, bro for.

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Speaker 2: Us, still mad about it, bro, let's do it.

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Speaker 1: Are still mad about the inability of schools to educate children.

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Speaker 1: And The Atlantic has a piece called a Recipe for

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Speaker 1: idiocracy What happens when even college students can't do math anymore? Now,

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Speaker 1: this is the jumping off point. Is this? You see

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Speaker 1: San Diego study which I appreciate those professors flagging its

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Speaker 1: saying we need to do something about this, because they

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Speaker 1: could have kept hiding the ball easily. Yes. The opening

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Speaker 1: paragraph to this is for the past several years, America

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Speaker 1: has been using its young people as brats and a sweeping,

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Speaker 1: if not exactly thought out education experiment. Schools across the

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Speaker 1: country have been lowering standards and removing penalties for failure,

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Speaker 1: the results are coming into focus. I just want to

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Speaker 1: list a couple of the things that she discover rails here,

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Speaker 1: just found out of that. Now, this reporter, by the way,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to go like, I don't know what

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Speaker 1: her personal views were on COVID and closing schools. She's

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Speaker 1: very young, so like she's just reporting. Fine, let's I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to hold her feet to the fire over this.

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Speaker 1: But the elite class in general, one of the courses

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Speaker 1: tutors noted this is the UCSD, but students faced more

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Speaker 1: issues with logical thinking than with math facts per se,

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Speaker 1: meaning they did not even know how to read and

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Speaker 1: begin solving a word problem. Okay, scary. The decline started

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Speaker 1: about a decade ago and sharply accelerated during the coronavirus pandemic.

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Speaker 1: One theory is, of course, that attention shredding influence of

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Speaker 1: phones and social media is to blame. But that's not all.

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Speaker 1: Or maybe students have stopped achieving in math because school

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Speaker 1: have stopped demanding it of them.

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Speaker 2: Maybe that's it.

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Speaker 1: During the George W. Bush administration, federal policy emphasized accountability

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Speaker 1: for public schools. Schools that saw poor performance on standardized

435
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 1: tests received increased funding at first, but if scores still

436
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,239
Speaker 1: didn't improve, they had their funding pulled. Research suggests that

437
00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 1: this helped improve math outcomes, particularly for poor black students

438
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 1: after those of us.

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00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 2: Who were there though, that was called racist. Yes, even

440
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 2: though it helped poor black students go ahead.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, After twenty fifteen, federal government backed off from its

442
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:38,080
Speaker 1: accountability measures. There's more. The pandemic supercharged the decline. Districts

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00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 1: that spent most of the twenty twenty one school year

444
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 1: mandating remote learnings saw students fall more than half a

445
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 1: grade behind in math. Districts that reopened earlier saw more

446
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 1: modest declines, and then to cover it up, many districts

447
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 1: adopted things like No Zero's policy, forcing teachers to pass

448
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 1: students who had little command of the material. And then

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00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:02,199
Speaker 1: finally the colleges discontinued, particularly in California, standardized testing so

450
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 1: they couldn't know that these kids weren't learning. So just

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00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 1: to review pandemic closures, expectations, universal expectations, punishments for not

452
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 1: meeting expectations, and standardized tests not acceptable. Yeah, what are

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00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: the things we've been saying for for years feeling it's

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00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,119
Speaker 1: those things actually I feel like I feel like we

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00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 1: may have said those things. We have said those things.

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Speaker 2: The non standardized testing is sort of the colleges bad here.

457
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 2: It's like you allowed students in without a standardized method

458
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 2: by which to judge them. Everything became subjective and you

459
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 2: had to know this was going on. Why did you

460
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 2: get rid of SATs? And I understand the pandemic era explanation, like,

461
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 2: oh not everybody could have taken the SAT in twenty twenty.

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00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 2: I mean it's twenty twenty five, how are things going now?

463
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 2: Everybody could take it like well your chimble mask.

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00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,160
Speaker 1: Some of that was the you know, this compassionate response,

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00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 1: like things are hard for everyone, so let's not make

466
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 1: it harder by holding people to expectations. And I actually

467
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 1: want to there's actually research that shows I'm familiar with

468
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,199
Speaker 1: this because of my own family going through bereavement and

469
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,359
Speaker 1: losing a parent. When you go through something tough, it

470
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: actually isn't the answer to drop standards and to get

471
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: rid of and to be as kind to yourself as possible,

472
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 1: Particularly for kids going through hard things, keeping standards is

473
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 1: more beneficial to them. Yeah, keeping their schedules is more

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00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,360
Speaker 1: beneficial to them, And so I think some of that

475
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: was well placed, like, oh my gosh, everything's so stressful

476
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 1: right now, but you're right, five years later, this is

477
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 1: just hiding failure. It's just hiding failure. And eventually you

478
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 1: get to the point where college students cannot do middle

479
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:46,640
Speaker 1: school math or elementary school math.

480
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 2: Yeap, and teachers' unions try to get parents to opt

481
00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 2: their kids out of the standardized test way before twenty twenty.

482
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 2: I remember in Parkshall, Brooklyn, where I lived, super left area,

483
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 2: it was just there was pressure to get opt your

484
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,439
Speaker 2: kids out because kids shouldn't be taking standardized tests. Oh

485
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,119
Speaker 2: my kids are taking standardized tests, so they'll be not

486
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 2: opting out here. But yeah, there was a lot of

487
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 2: pressure from teachers unions on parents, especially on left parents,

488
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 2: to say that we shouldn't be held accountable because our

489
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 2: kids are failing at every level, and teachers should be

490
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 2: held accountable. Of course they should. The better teachers will

491
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 2: get better results. That's how it works. And this misplaced

492
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 2: idea that nobody should fail and all failures should be

493
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 2: hidden leads us to this moment.

494
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: And I think what concerned me perhaps most about that

495
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: is what I feel like the underlying problem is is

496
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: that we are losing societally the skill of thinking, and

497
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: you could see it the skill of learning itself. Yeah,

498
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: and that is the part where like you can't just say,

499
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: like a calculator in AI is going to be able

500
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 1: to do all this for you. You have to learn

501
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: to think, and those muscles are atrophying extremely quickly.

502
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

503
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think all these things were bad ideas ten

504
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: fifteen years ago, and it's a.

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00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 2: Yeah here we are listen to us going forward? Is

506
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 2: really the message here from all three segments, I think, Yeah,

507
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 2: I'm not sure we commented on sex scandals before, but

508
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:16,120
Speaker 2: don't have one.

509
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,919
Speaker 1: Hey, you know we could do just look at our

510
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 1: lives and how we've conducted ourselves. I think that you know. Yeah,

511
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 1: although I have said that the trashy, crazy trajectory for

512
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 1: a media career is rewarding in the cash area, were.

513
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 2: Doing it all wrong. Actually, if you want to, if

514
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 2: you want to be want to be upfront about it,

515
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 2: because we are being not maximizing our.

516
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: Being not insane and being not trashy must be rewards

517
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 1: unto themselves because they're going to have to be and

518
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: we're doing those things.

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00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us on Normally Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays,

520
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 2: and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get

521
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 2: in touch with us at normally theepod at gmail dot com.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and when things get weird, act Mo