1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,600
Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to

2
00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,640
Speaker 1: the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much

3
00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,080
Speaker 1: for tuning in. This is part two two two two

4
00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:38,760
Speaker 1: two of Spiteful Architecture, featuring now our super producer mister

5
00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,479
Speaker 1: Max Williams to himself a font of spite.

6
00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:48,519
Speaker 2: Oh wow, I would maybe reserve that sobriquet for the

7
00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:50,360
Speaker 2: quist Jonathan Strickland.

8
00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:53,479
Speaker 3: I always think of Max as being pretty spite free.

9
00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,240
Speaker 3: I don't know. I can be quite spiteful, how about that?

10
00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:57,560
Speaker 1: Huh?

11
00:00:57,680 --> 00:00:59,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I am.

12
00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:03,840
Speaker 4: I am quite at holding a very powerful and useless resentment,

13
00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:07,080
Speaker 4: like very good at holding those resentments for way too long,

14
00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:09,120
Speaker 4: and they have no reason.

15
00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:10,160
Speaker 3: Sospite I could build.

16
00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:14,200
Speaker 4: I could see myself building a massive stupid house to

17
00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,480
Speaker 4: piss somebody off. But that's that's just And then they

18
00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:20,959
Speaker 4: move away like three weeks later, and they were moving

19
00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:22,240
Speaker 4: away before I built the house.

20
00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:24,559
Speaker 3: Oh yes, yes, nice call back.

21
00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:27,720
Speaker 1: How about we call you an architect instead of spiteful.

22
00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,720
Speaker 2: The architect is a very good Actually, there was a

23
00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,600
Speaker 2: kind of a three to eleven adjacent band that was

24
00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:35,960
Speaker 2: a local band growing up called the riff Raff Kings,

25
00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:38,640
Speaker 2: and I believe the bassists. They all had like rap

26
00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:40,480
Speaker 2: names like the all of the Beastie Boys, and the

27
00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,000
Speaker 2: basis name was the Architect, which I thought was a

28
00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:45,080
Speaker 2: really cool, like you know, nickname, m M.

29
00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:50,680
Speaker 1: I agree, and you are Noel, and they still this

30
00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,680
Speaker 1: is don't call it a comeback, or you may if

31
00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,560
Speaker 1: you wish, folks, because this is part of a somewhat

32
00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:01,720
Speaker 1: continuing series. Our pow research is so Jeff Bartlett hipped

33
00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:06,880
Speaker 1: us to something called spiite spiteful architecture, the architecture of spite,

34
00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:11,040
Speaker 1: which is funny because we're architecture fans and we always,

35
00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,959
Speaker 1: at least I always associate it with these noble things,

36
00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:20,000
Speaker 1: these pretentious thoughts like good architectures, frozen music. But it

37
00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:22,600
Speaker 1: turns out quite a lot of people have instead used

38
00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:26,120
Speaker 1: architecture as a way of making a permanent screw you

39
00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:29,400
Speaker 1: guys statement to any number of other people.

40
00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:33,079
Speaker 3: Are you guys familiar with Albert Speer s p e

41
00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:34,440
Speaker 3: e er correct?

42
00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:40,359
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, famous German architecture, very closely involved

43
00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,919
Speaker 2: with the Nazis and building out some of their you.

44
00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,200
Speaker 3: Know, typically foreboding structures.

45
00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:49,600
Speaker 2: But in the in the podcast that I'm working on

46
00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,960
Speaker 2: with our dear friend Jordan Runtag the Stones Touring Party

47
00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,320
Speaker 2: about the Rolling Stones Exile Main Street album and tour.

48
00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,360
Speaker 2: He refers to Chipmunk, who is the guy that like

49
00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:00,680
Speaker 2: built the stages and also was like the MC at

50
00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,160
Speaker 2: Woodstock as the Albert Spear of rock.

51
00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,320
Speaker 3: And I did not know who Albert Spear was.

52
00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:07,960
Speaker 2: I had to look it up, but uh yeah, kind

53
00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,200
Speaker 2: of a dubious uh uh comparison there, but you know,

54
00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,560
Speaker 2: it's always good to learn new references. Chip Monk, chip

55
00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:20,960
Speaker 2: Albert something Beresford Monk the third and he was like

56
00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,640
Speaker 2: this this Yeah, he was the guy that told people

57
00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,760
Speaker 2: to lay off the brown acid at Woodstock and he

58
00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,480
Speaker 2: got hit. He was basically like the kind of you know, uh,

59
00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,959
Speaker 2: one of the first big like minds behind touring rock

60
00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,200
Speaker 2: music and like building elaborate stages and lighting setups. But

61
00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:39,480
Speaker 2: it was all very seat of your pants at the time.

62
00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,400
Speaker 2: But he kind of created the mold for that whole world.

63
00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:44,160
Speaker 2: Talk about him a lot in the pod. It's pretty

64
00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:45,080
Speaker 2: interesting stuff.

65
00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,640
Speaker 1: So do check it out, folks. And no, what's the

66
00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:49,080
Speaker 1: name of that show? One more time?

67
00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,160
Speaker 2: Jone's Touring Party the podcast thank You and that was

68
00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,320
Speaker 2: an organic plug though you got to give me that.

69
00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:56,800
Speaker 1: And well, I just want to make sure people know

70
00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,160
Speaker 1: their name and check it out. All the episodes are

71
00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,400
Speaker 1: free wherever you on your favorite shows. There is no

72
00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:06,040
Speaker 1: spiteful architecture. There just solid journalism and a hell of

73
00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:10,600
Speaker 1: an audible experience when we're talking, hey, thank you, when

74
00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:15,080
Speaker 1: we're talking about spiteful architecture. Man, I got to tell

75
00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,320
Speaker 1: you when we first got into part one, I thought,

76
00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:22,359
Speaker 1: how many can there be? But sure enough, this is

77
00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,720
Speaker 1: a part two that may end up being a two

78
00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,200
Speaker 1: parter itself. Not sure we're gonna I.

79
00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,960
Speaker 3: Know, two part part two, that's what is?

80
00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:31,919
Speaker 1: It is idiomatic for the people.

81
00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,080
Speaker 2: Exactly No, because it does seem like a very specific

82
00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,920
Speaker 2: flex that would be reserved for like the money gentry,

83
00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,120
Speaker 2: you know, for the most part, like someone to have

84
00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,320
Speaker 2: enough money to throw around, they could like invest their

85
00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:46,599
Speaker 2: money in just pissing somebody else off.

86
00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:48,200
Speaker 3: So you would think it might be rare.

87
00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,520
Speaker 2: I think we've said in the last installment we reference

88
00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,120
Speaker 2: to the Spike Store, the coffee shop, and the Curb

89
00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,800
Speaker 2: your Enthusiasm. That was my first introduction to this concept,

90
00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,320
Speaker 2: but it's actually got a lot of historical precedent as

91
00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:01,920
Speaker 2: we will get into right now.

92
00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,880
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we're going to talk about the Skinny House,

93
00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,360
Speaker 1: a place literally named the spite House, the Kavanaugh Building,

94
00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,200
Speaker 1: the Pie House. But you know where we wanted to

95
00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:13,920
Speaker 1: start we were talking off air. I want to start

96
00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,080
Speaker 1: someplace close to home for the Americans in the audience.

97
00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,720
Speaker 1: The Macy's department store in Times Square.

98
00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:21,520
Speaker 3: This is nuts.

99
00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,080
Speaker 1: I've walked past that place so many times in the

100
00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,240
Speaker 1: pass never had any idea about the story behind it.

101
00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:28,559
Speaker 3: I didn't either.

102
00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:30,919
Speaker 2: All I know is that it's just, you know, always considered,

103
00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,200
Speaker 2: been considered kind of the flagship Macy's. It was a

104
00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:37,240
Speaker 2: place to be and be seen, you know, in a

105
00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:37,920
Speaker 2: certain era.

106
00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:38,360
Speaker 3: Right.

107
00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you go over to the corner of thirty

108
00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:46,240
Speaker 1: fourth and Broadway in New York City, you'll see that

109
00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,200
Speaker 1: flagship store that you're just you just described.

110
00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,279
Speaker 3: It's a Macy's. It's huge.

111
00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:56,640
Speaker 1: It's taken up almost an entire city block since nineteen

112
00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:01,840
Speaker 1: oh two. But it doesn't quite form a complete rectangle.

113
00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:07,039
Speaker 1: It takes up almost the whole block except for one

114
00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,000
Speaker 1: little quarter notch.

115
00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:09,559
Speaker 3: Like a nook.

116
00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,679
Speaker 2: Huh, that's weird. What's the deal with that? I mean, Okay,

117
00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,480
Speaker 2: guys like Jerry Seinfeld, but I'm leaving it in. He

118
00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:18,680
Speaker 2: doesn't own that expression. In fact, I don't know if

119
00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:20,360
Speaker 2: he ever even said it. I think people just making

120
00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,000
Speaker 2: fun of him say it. I know it's more of

121
00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,039
Speaker 2: a rooney I think that's right. It's like it's like

122
00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:27,360
Speaker 2: beat me up, Scottie, yeah, or Luke.

123
00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:27,919
Speaker 3: I am your father?

124
00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:28,400
Speaker 1: You know?

125
00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:30,200
Speaker 3: Well yeah.

126
00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,040
Speaker 2: But in any case, this little nook in question here,

127
00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:35,440
Speaker 2: it has to you know, we know real estate is

128
00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:37,919
Speaker 2: at a premium in New York, as is just space.

129
00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,560
Speaker 2: That's why everything's built on top of itself. So this

130
00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:44,680
Speaker 2: is obviously sported numerous non Macy's tenants over the years,

131
00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,680
Speaker 2: ranging from you know, fast food joints like Burger King

132
00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:53,640
Speaker 2: to the delightfully named sunglass Hut, which never really feels

133
00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:54,680
Speaker 2: much like a hut to me.

134
00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,120
Speaker 3: I don't know the sunglasses that sunglass hut. I haven't.

135
00:06:58,560 --> 00:06:59,760
Speaker 3: I've never seen the point.

136
00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,600
Speaker 1: I did once because I had to. I was you know,

137
00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,720
Speaker 1: I'm not a day walker by nature, so when I'm

138
00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,280
Speaker 1: forced out in the sun, I need to protect my peepers.

139
00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:14,200
Speaker 1: And I picked up some sunglasses at a sunglass hut I.

140
00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:14,600
Speaker 3: Think it was.

141
00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,760
Speaker 1: Was it a Kiosk do they have kiosk for sunglass hut?

142
00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,080
Speaker 2: They're always pretty small. I don't know they necessarily have kiosk.

143
00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:24,520
Speaker 2: But is it a sunglass hut owned by Luxodica at

144
00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:25,000
Speaker 2: this point?

145
00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, ultimately yeah, Yeah.

146
00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:28,520
Speaker 3: That's another story for another day.

147
00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:30,000
Speaker 2: Actually, if you want to hear about it, you can

148
00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,120
Speaker 2: check out our sister show stuff they don't want you

149
00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,760
Speaker 2: to know, or we go into the conspiracy behind why

150
00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,160
Speaker 2: I Wear is so damn expensive.

151
00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,960
Speaker 3: And owned by one giant monopolistic company.

152
00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:45,400
Speaker 1: Weirdly enough out of Italy. But yeah, there's so there's

153
00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:50,040
Speaker 1: this huge building. It's amazing except for this very narrow

154
00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,960
Speaker 1: five story building. In a corner, in a nook, there

155
00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,800
Speaker 1: was a sunglass hut. There was a burger king. There's

156
00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:58,920
Speaker 1: a story behind this. It all goes back to the

157
00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:03,400
Speaker 1: eighteen hundred a guy named Roland H. Macy and a

158
00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:07,240
Speaker 1: dude he bitterly hated named Henry Siegel who was a

159
00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:10,920
Speaker 1: partner of a store called Siegel Cooper. They were beefed up.

160
00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:15,280
Speaker 1: Siegel Cooper back in the day was a store on

161
00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:19,800
Speaker 1: the between like the eighteenth and nineteenth streets on sixth Avenue,

162
00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,520
Speaker 1: and in their glory days, they were a neck and

163
00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:25,480
Speaker 1: neck rival with Macy's.

164
00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:27,320
Speaker 2: Bro Really quickly. I just had to google this and

165
00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,679
Speaker 2: I found a result. Really quickly. Turns out William H. Macy,

166
00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:34,600
Speaker 2: the actor, is third cousin four times removed.

167
00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:37,480
Speaker 3: Of Roland H. Macy, the founder of Macy's Departments.

168
00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,040
Speaker 1: I am Jack's complete lack of surprise.

169
00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:42,640
Speaker 3: Yeah. Can I tell you, guys, I'm an ancestor of

170
00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:43,480
Speaker 3: the Adams family.

171
00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:44,880
Speaker 1: You're an ancestor.

172
00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:49,479
Speaker 3: There's Adams Family. That's it's a television show, John Adams.

173
00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:52,480
Speaker 3: You're sorry.

174
00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:54,920
Speaker 2: The Adams Family, in my mind, purely belongs to Gomez

175
00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:55,520
Speaker 2: and Martish.

176
00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,680
Speaker 1: Unless you have some time travel technology, of which I

177
00:08:58,720 --> 00:08:59,360
Speaker 1: am unaware.

178
00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,320
Speaker 3: You're a descendant of same difference.

179
00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,800
Speaker 2: Oh oh good times of flat circle is potato kleimano.

180
00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,120
Speaker 3: But what's the deal? It seems like there's a beef

181
00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:10,160
Speaker 3: of bruin. Mm.

182
00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:15,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, our buddy Roland starts his store named in a

183
00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:18,760
Speaker 1: burst of humility, Macy's in eighteen fifty eight. It's on

184
00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:22,520
Speaker 1: the southeast corner of fourteenth Street and sixth Avenue. There's

185
00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:27,160
Speaker 1: a big shopping district that's just coming into play on

186
00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,400
Speaker 1: fourteenth Street around this time. We want to give a

187
00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:35,200
Speaker 1: big shout out to Bloomberg the author Mimi Kirk, who

188
00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:39,240
Speaker 1: helped us out a lot with this story. It's the

189
00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,080
Speaker 1: so he starts in eighteen fifty eight, it's the eighteen nineties,

190
00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:46,400
Speaker 1: and Macy says, you know what, I'm gonna leap frog

191
00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:50,679
Speaker 1: over this shopping district. I'm gonna build a store on

192
00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,440
Speaker 1: thirty fourth and Broadway, and I'm gonna do it in secret,

193
00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:56,040
Speaker 1: so my competitors don't know.

194
00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:01,280
Speaker 2: Okay, we've seen that happen before, or like the Florida

195
00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:05,840
Speaker 2: Project as an example, where the Walt Disney Company secretly

196
00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,559
Speaker 2: bought up all this land in Florida, in the Orlando

197
00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,360
Speaker 2: area under this name, the Florida Project, so that no

198
00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,360
Speaker 2: one would know what was coming. They were developing this massive,

199
00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:20,079
Speaker 2: you know, theme park resort situall would ultimately become resort

200
00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:23,400
Speaker 2: in multiple theme parks. But yeah, this kind of you know,

201
00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,200
Speaker 2: buying up real estate in secret is not uncommon.

202
00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:30,280
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, one hundred percent. And it makes sense as well.

203
00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,240
Speaker 1: I imagine for quite some time there's been a cottage

204
00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:39,559
Speaker 1: industry of people tracking down the actions of real estate

205
00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,440
Speaker 1: brokers right to try to figure this stuff out. I mean,

206
00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,079
Speaker 1: even now in twenty twenty three out in California by

207
00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,960
Speaker 1: Travis Air Force Base. There's a mysterious company buying hundreds

208
00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:52,440
Speaker 1: of acres of land Flannery associates. No one knows who

209
00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:54,760
Speaker 1: they are. So tales oldest time.

210
00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:55,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

211
00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:59,000
Speaker 2: So, as you said, Ben, late eighteen nineties, Macy's is

212
00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:02,840
Speaker 2: getting into this creative expansion project to build their flagship

213
00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:04,560
Speaker 2: store at thirty fourth and Broadway.

214
00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:05,920
Speaker 3: And they started to.

215
00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:09,200
Speaker 2: Just buy up all of this, the blocks of property

216
00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:11,400
Speaker 2: from thirty fourth Street all the way to thirty fifth

217
00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,320
Speaker 2: Street a block, but you know, blocks.

218
00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:15,640
Speaker 3: Big, that's a big deal.

219
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:20,400
Speaker 2: Packets parcels right, and Macy's as an organization had a

220
00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,839
Speaker 2: gentleman's agreement to pay hilarious when you think about it,

221
00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,360
Speaker 2: time a mere two hundred and fifty thousand dollars to

222
00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:33,200
Speaker 2: one Albert Dwayne Pell for that corner of thirty fourth Street.

223
00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:44,679
Speaker 1: But someone leaked to the info. Maybe it was a PI.

224
00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:48,760
Speaker 1: Maybe was someone trading a hot tip for anything like

225
00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:53,000
Speaker 1: anything from cash to you know, I don't know, maybe

226
00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:55,240
Speaker 1: just the price of a few drinks at a happy hour.

227
00:11:56,280 --> 00:12:02,320
Speaker 1: Somewhat squealed. Someone stitched Macy's plays became public knowledge in

228
00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,680
Speaker 1: April of nineteen oh one, and this is before that

229
00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:10,080
Speaker 1: gentleman's agreement turned into paperwork. We're getting a lot of

230
00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,520
Speaker 1: this from a book called Holdouts with an exclamation Mark

231
00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,960
Speaker 1: by Andrew Albern and Seymour Durst from nineteen eighty four.

232
00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:23,040
Speaker 1: So when people know that Macy is conspiring to buy

233
00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:28,520
Speaker 1: up this block, his old rival Henry Siegel sends a

234
00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:32,559
Speaker 1: guy in kind of like Slugworth in Willie Wonka. And

235
00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:38,120
Speaker 1: this agent of Seagulls goes to Pell and says, hey, man,

236
00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:42,840
Speaker 1: we'll give you three hundred and seventy five thousand dollars

237
00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,400
Speaker 1: just for this little this little plot of land.

238
00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:46,880
Speaker 3: What was it?

239
00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:47,360
Speaker 2: What was it on?

240
00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:51,319
Speaker 1: Like uh one thousand, one hundred and fifty four square

241
00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,400
Speaker 1: feet something like feet, not miles.

242
00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:55,720
Speaker 2: They nailed it well, square a square feet. And this

243
00:12:55,840 --> 00:13:00,760
Speaker 2: was agreed to perhaps non gentlemanly, considering that there was

244
00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,120
Speaker 2: already a pre existing verbal agreement.

245
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:09,760
Speaker 1: Right yeah, I think so he definitely Pell that is

246
00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:13,760
Speaker 1: definitely decided to chase the money instead of keeping to

247
00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,720
Speaker 1: his word. So he I mean, business can be dirty.

248
00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,520
Speaker 1: People are still kind of divided over this part. Did

249
00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:24,440
Speaker 1: Siegull want to buy that slice of land to embarrass

250
00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,760
Speaker 1: his competitor, and maybe have you know a picture a

251
00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:31,679
Speaker 1: big sign that says we got better prices, a seagulls.

252
00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:32,480
Speaker 3: Or just macy sucks.

253
00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:38,959
Speaker 1: You know what, Right, Macy's blows. But he didn't do that.

254
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:42,679
Speaker 1: He didn't make a bunch of anti Macy's propaganda. And

255
00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,800
Speaker 1: right now, if you look at the best records we have,

256
00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:52,440
Speaker 1: it seems there are two possible explanations for his motives here.

257
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:56,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he had, I guess, an associate by

258
00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,000
Speaker 2: the name of Robert Smith, not of the cure of family,

259
00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:05,760
Speaker 2: but this gentleman had a dry goods business. He already

260
00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,199
Speaker 2: had a brick and mortar spot set up near Macy's

261
00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:12,079
Speaker 2: and wanted to expand and set up a news shop.

262
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,240
Speaker 2: Smith then announced that he was planning on putting up

263
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,600
Speaker 2: a twelve story building on the corner this location to

264
00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:24,360
Speaker 2: sell women's clothing, not dry goods at all. But this

265
00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,680
Speaker 2: was probably just a weird bit of flexing again because

266
00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:33,280
Speaker 2: remember the size is really odd. He couldn't really build

267
00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:38,120
Speaker 2: that upward, I don't think, right, it doesn't narrow, would

268
00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,080
Speaker 2: be weird building. It'd be like one of those half

269
00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:42,160
Speaker 2: floors and being John Malkovich.

270
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be like one of those weird buildings

271
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:50,080
Speaker 1: in downtown Tokyo or in a European country. It would

272
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:54,000
Speaker 1: look up to code. The staircase would be very strange.

273
00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:58,000
Speaker 1: It's just awkward all the way around. So there's another

274
00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:02,280
Speaker 1: account that feels a little more plausible, and the idea

275
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,920
Speaker 1: is that Seagull himself wanted to build a new store

276
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:11,320
Speaker 1: on the old Macy's site at fourteenth and sixth. Macy's

277
00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,040
Speaker 1: was moving from there, and they were thinking, you know,

278
00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:17,080
Speaker 1: people will still walk by, there will still be foot traffic,

279
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:19,800
Speaker 1: so of course they're going to go shopping because they're

280
00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:25,400
Speaker 1: already there. And so what what he wanted to do

281
00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,320
Speaker 1: was have a have a hook in Macy's new plan

282
00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:35,920
Speaker 1: and seagulls. Seagull's own conspiracy apparently was that he would say, hey, Macy,

283
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:40,640
Speaker 1: I own that little corner plot there and i'll give

284
00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,960
Speaker 1: it to you for a song, so long as you

285
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,080
Speaker 1: agree to give up your lease on the old fourteenth

286
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:52,320
Speaker 1: Street store bargaining chip a bargaining chip just so yeah,

287
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,080
Speaker 1: that lease would run till nineteen oh three. So the

288
00:15:55,120 --> 00:16:01,080
Speaker 1: timeline works out, But it appears Macy's he didn't play.

289
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:02,880
Speaker 3: Ball and just jump in here.

290
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:05,200
Speaker 4: It feels kind of spiteful, even on Macy's end a

291
00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:07,440
Speaker 4: little bit more because it's like they were leaving the

292
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:09,520
Speaker 4: place already, the guys, like, hey, might just leaving the

293
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:10,760
Speaker 4: least like two years earlier.

294
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:12,320
Speaker 3: Like he's not like telling them that they have to

295
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,080
Speaker 3: pay the least or anything. It's like it is a

296
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:18,560
Speaker 3: little dirty of a tactic. Sure, but it's like, I

297
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:20,720
Speaker 3: don't know, like Macy's is also prey picking a little

298
00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,120
Speaker 3: bit of a break, like they don't have to pay

299
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:23,240
Speaker 3: two years of this lease.

300
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:25,880
Speaker 2: So I don't know, true, but at a certain level

301
00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,880
Speaker 2: of wealth and success, which I would argue that if he's,

302
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:32,840
Speaker 2: you know, building this giant flagship store, he's probably all right,

303
00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:36,480
Speaker 2: probably more worth it to cut out the competition than

304
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:38,160
Speaker 2: it is to get a little bit of a break.

305
00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,480
Speaker 2: He's thinking big picture. This is like high level spite,

306
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:42,040
Speaker 2: you know.

307
00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:44,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, this is the type of spite you

308
00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:46,480
Speaker 4: can do when you have more money than you know

309
00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:47,080
Speaker 4: what to do with.

310
00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:51,880
Speaker 1: Right, And there's there is a bigger picture, like you said,

311
00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,880
Speaker 1: a long term goal here. But also, these guys don't

312
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,480
Speaker 1: like each other, you know what I mean. They wouldn't

313
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,200
Speaker 1: cross the street to piss the other guy was on fire.

314
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:03,480
Speaker 1: Can I say that on this show? Thank you?

315
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:05,919
Speaker 2: It's not one of the George Carlin words. I think

316
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,640
Speaker 2: you say that on the radio. Yeah, you definitely can.

317
00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:17,400
Speaker 1: And if you were. If you find yourself in a

318
00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:22,639
Speaker 1: survival situation, remember, piss is not the best thing to

319
00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,360
Speaker 1: use to put out a fire. Try to find another

320
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:27,719
Speaker 1: source of non petroleum liquid.

321
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,399
Speaker 3: But if you're stung by a jellyfish, it's just a ticket.

322
00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:32,919
Speaker 1: If you're stung by a jellyfish, you know what, depending

323
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,280
Speaker 1: on the jellyfish, why not why not live a little

324
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,000
Speaker 1: at the very end? See if it was nothing you were.

325
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:43,560
Speaker 4: Into Balsamic dressing also does it? You don't have to pee.

326
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:43,880
Speaker 3: On it.

327
00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,080
Speaker 2: Unless you're on a picnic lunch situation on the beach

328
00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,320
Speaker 2: and you happen to be making some sort of salad.

329
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:50,879
Speaker 3: You know.

330
00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,640
Speaker 2: The piss comes with the with the human body. Enough

331
00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:54,960
Speaker 2: about this though.

332
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:59,000
Speaker 1: Well well, yeah, so clearly Macy's and Seagull their their

333
00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,800
Speaker 1: main rival. He was urine based, but it bled over

334
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:12,800
Speaker 1: into their department store businesses. Yeah, if you will, And

335
00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:18,439
Speaker 1: so now these guys are beefed up with this. Macy's

336
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,720
Speaker 1: refuses to play ball with Seagull, and he says in

337
00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,920
Speaker 1: July of in July nineteen oh one, he says, we're

338
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,680
Speaker 1: building a huge new store, a flagship store. It's nine

339
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:33,720
Speaker 1: stories high. It's an entire city block. And then someone says,

340
00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,240
Speaker 1: is the entire city block mister Macy's.

341
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:42,159
Speaker 3: And he goes, I did everything right, and they indicted me.

342
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,960
Speaker 2: Sorry, that was just the voice was hitting me on

343
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,439
Speaker 2: that level. I love that sound bite, by the way.

344
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,679
Speaker 2: But yeah, So Macy is employing the architectural services of

345
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:57,600
Speaker 2: De Limos and Cordes, and they were able to complete

346
00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:02,560
Speaker 2: the structure that they had planned around the little enclave,

347
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,720
Speaker 2: the little cutout, and they created a ground floor arcade

348
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:08,639
Speaker 2: which is kind of like a lobby or is it

349
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:10,399
Speaker 2: an open space that you can kind of like go

350
00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:11,640
Speaker 2: through between spaces.

351
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like that. It's almost a promenade. Yeah, you

352
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,720
Speaker 1: can just walk, you can stroll through and take in

353
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:19,359
Speaker 1: the sites.

354
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,280
Speaker 2: I love the idea of a promenade, and also the

355
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,240
Speaker 2: action of promenading through the promenade.

356
00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:27,200
Speaker 3: That always struck me as a real classy.

357
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,359
Speaker 2: So yeah, he builds this arcade, which unfortunately didn't have

358
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,640
Speaker 2: any claw machines or gallica tables or anything like that

359
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,199
Speaker 2: at least at this point. So this does create this

360
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,920
Speaker 2: little cut through connecting Broadway in thirty fourth Street, and

361
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:45,080
Speaker 2: the Macy's flagship store does have its grand opening in

362
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:46,360
Speaker 2: nineteen o two.

363
00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:53,080
Speaker 1: It sure does. And this is the structure that's still

364
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:57,200
Speaker 1: there under those big macy signs. And here's a bit

365
00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,800
Speaker 1: more of spite of the old ultra respite for you.

366
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 1: Macy's paid to keep its old store vacant until its

367
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,760
Speaker 1: lease went up, so they weren't doing business there. They

368
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,840
Speaker 1: kept it as a ghost store, and then once the

369
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:20,159
Speaker 1: lease expired, Seagull took over the property. He built a

370
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:24,280
Speaker 1: ten story high structure he called the fourteenth Street Store.

371
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:30,400
Speaker 1: His buddy Robert Smith, the women's clothier, brought bought Seagull's

372
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,520
Speaker 1: interest in the thirty fourth Street corner in nineteen oh seven,

373
00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,080
Speaker 1: and in nineteen eleven, just a few years later, he

374
00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,960
Speaker 1: sold that structure for one million dollars. At the time,

375
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:46,080
Speaker 1: this was a record breaking price for any property in Manhattan,

376
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,120
Speaker 1: about eight hundred and sixty six dollars and fifty five

377
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:53,639
Speaker 1: cents a square foot, And people wondered if Macy's was

378
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,359
Speaker 1: the you know, the ultimate buyer of that property, but

379
00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,560
Speaker 1: they never were. And that's why even in modern times

380
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,800
Speaker 1: there was a sunglass hut, a burger king, you name it. Oh. Also,

381
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:08,320
Speaker 1: an arcade is just like a series of arches. Just

382
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:09,880
Speaker 1: to correct myself there.

383
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was thinking it was my columns got it,

384
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:13,439
Speaker 3: But but it is.

385
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 2: It's just a path, you know, it's meant to kind

386
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,480
Speaker 2: of like connect two spaces, so you can like cut

387
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:20,520
Speaker 2: through sort of like a bespoke alley.

388
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, it can be freestanding or it can be attached

389
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:27,240
Speaker 1: to a wall, but it can also be a promenade,

390
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,240
Speaker 1: because a promenade is just a public place for walking

391
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:34,399
Speaker 1: as a social activity. Life was weird before TV.

392
00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,119
Speaker 3: Oh god, yeah, yeah, what do people even do?

393
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,240
Speaker 2: I guess they just strolled, you know, just strolled strolled

394
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,280
Speaker 2: around and have really really petty fights.

395
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:43,880
Speaker 3: That's true.

396
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 1: I mean that's still oh well, that's that'd be twitter.

397
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's just that's just part of the human condition.

398
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 2: So moving on, and boy, you know these it's it's

399
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 2: you wouldn't I think there'd be so much spite to

400
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 2: talk about when it comes to architecture. But we just

401
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,760
Speaker 2: filled up a proper half hour just about just talking about.

402
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 3: Macy's and these two fellas arguing over space.

403
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 2: So we think we're gonna do another one here, and

404
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,280
Speaker 2: then we're gonna take a pause and do a second

405
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 2: part of this episode for Thursday.

406
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:19,160
Speaker 3: But this is Ben.

407
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,200
Speaker 2: You teased it beautifully at the top of the show

408
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,639
Speaker 2: about something called the skinny house.

409
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 3: What's up with that? What's the skinny house?

410
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 1: Oh? The skinny house. Yes, right, let's do this one.

411
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,280
Speaker 1: This is definitely two part of now. So, speaking of

412
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:37,439
Speaker 1: awkward architecture itself an awkward phrase, if you go to

413
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:42,719
Speaker 1: Boston's North End in New England, you will see a

414
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:47,680
Speaker 1: weird building tucked between two other brick buildings. It's four stories,

415
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 1: it's pale green, it is about thirty feet long, it's

416
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,440
Speaker 1: only ten feet wide. It's the house at forty four

417
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 1: Whole Street. You can see pictures of it easily. It

418
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,199
Speaker 1: has no front door. You can only get to it

419
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:06,640
Speaker 1: through a side alley. First question would be, why the

420
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:08,639
Speaker 1: heck would someone build that.

421
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 3: House to what end? You might ask, right to what

422
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:13,919
Speaker 3: North End? Yeah, well exactly.

423
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 2: I love a good brotherly legend, and in this one,

424
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 2: these two brothers inherited a plot of land from their father,

425
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 2: and when one of the brothers returned from their time

426
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:27,560
Speaker 2: serving in the Civil War. To his chagrin, he found

427
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 2: that his other brother from the same mother had built

428
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 2: a large home, presumably just for him and his family

429
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 2: on this shared piece of land. That's not cool, other brother, No.

430
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,160
Speaker 3: That is accurate.

431
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:48,840
Speaker 1: That has been documented multiple times. We pulled some of

432
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: this from Boston Magazine written by Madeline Billis And what

433
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 1: a dick move.

434
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it is the stuff of legend. Though.

435
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 2: That we we know of them is the brothers, you know,

436
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 2: one brother the other. This is like classic, you know,

437
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 2: fairy tale stuff. So the one who built the house

438
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 2: used pretty much the whole share of land, at the

439
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 2: very least, he took more than what was meant for him.

440
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 2: And presumably all this was demarketed in some form of paperwork.

441
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:22,200
Speaker 3: I would I would hope.

442
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 2: But maybe it was just sort of like gentlemen's rules,

443
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 2: you know, where it's like, you know, we get this

444
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 2: inherited equally. We are two people that should be split

445
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 2: evenly right down the middle. But I guess that all

446
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 2: depends on the shape of the land and all of that.

447
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,360
Speaker 2: We'll get into this. So when the second brother came

448
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 2: back and he saw what his other brother had done,

449
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 2: he was. He was very upset, and he decided to

450
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 2: take his revenge.

451
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 3: To exact his revenge.

452
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,719
Speaker 2: We had a similar story to this in our last episode,

453
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 2: where I believe someone built an ugly monument or something

454
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 2: like that to where like you just would see this

455
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 2: annoying thing.

456
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 3: I think he was in France. It was like some

457
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 3: sort of there was one sea. I'm getting the confused

458
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:00,959
Speaker 3: because there was one with like a feature on a

459
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:05,360
Speaker 3: fountain that was in that was in Vadic in the city. Yeah,

460
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 3: I can't remember.

461
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:08,439
Speaker 2: They're all running together for me so much Spie, so

462
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 2: much SPIKEE in the world of architecture. But he decided

463
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 2: to build what was referred to as historical writings as

464
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:19,200
Speaker 2: a skinny house to block out the sun from his

465
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 2: brother's building. Yeah, and he obviously didn't intend on inhabiting

466
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 2: the spot because it didn't even have a door.

467
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, only has that side entrance.

468
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 3: If you if you look at that precisely.

469
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you look at a picture of it, it's

470
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 1: not even the most impressive. It's not even the most

471
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 1: impressive house. It's it's four stories if you count that

472
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: window coming out of the roof. It's definitely a Spike house,

473
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,879
Speaker 1: and it is clearly meant it's it's a budding the

474
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: other building. It's clearly meant to block out the view.

475
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: If if you look at the side door, and you

476
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:07,119
Speaker 1: can find tours and stuff of this building online, the

477
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: side door looks like a window. It reminds me of

478
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: I've been to some hotels in Europe where they say

479
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: they have a terrace, and it took me a second

480
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: to find the terrace because it was a window that

481
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 1: happened to open big enough to be like a hobbit door.

482
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: So that's kind of what this door is like. And

483
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 1: people still live there, people enjoy it. It's kind of

484
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 1: a flex to own that piece of history in Boston.

485
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 3: I believe it was.

486
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,679
Speaker 1: Oh there's an interview that's been going around a while

487
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: back with the Semonic Semonic family, sim Nic and they

488
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 1: talked with the Boston Globe about how much fun they

489
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: had throwing a party in the Hull House for New

490
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,639
Speaker 1: Year's Eve. I'm saying fun somewhat sarcastically. I think the

491
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 1: novelty wore off once someone had to use the restroom.

492
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,400
Speaker 1: This is not a big place.

493
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 2: No, it's it's I mean, it's you know, it's not

494
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 2: something when you look at it, it's not It looks

495
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 2: kind of like a condo, you know what I mean, Like, well,

496
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 2: you might see like a townhouse. Like here in Atlanta,

497
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 2: there's a couple of spots where there are these like

498
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 2: rows of these real skinny type houses that are you know,

499
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 2: you buy them and it's it's like a relatively affordable

500
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 2: human dwelling, but they are kind of weirdly skinny. And

501
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 2: you'll see places like this and you know, San Francisco

502
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 2: and in other spots.

503
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 3: But this was not part of the urban planning.

504
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 2: Lets let's just say, right, this was like an afterthought

505
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,439
Speaker 2: and it still stands to this day, and it looks odd,

506
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 2: but it doesn't look like crazy, you know.

507
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,560
Speaker 3: It's something that we definitely see stuff like it.

508
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, it would make sense to see that in Philly,

509
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 1: or to see that in some older US towns. It

510
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: would make a lot of sense to see it in

511
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: places like Amsterdam too, write any densely populated place that

512
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 1: has some centuries to its past. If you want to

513
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 1: figure out what it looks like inside, do check out

514
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 1: the tours that are available on YouTube. You'll see walkthroughs

515
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: one of the seminent family members. Jennifer told The Boston

516
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 1: Globe this quote. We had a party of ten one

517
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,159
Speaker 1: New Year's Eve, and when one person has to go

518
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,680
Speaker 1: to the bathroom, everyone has to move.

519
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 3: She said.

520
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: There are only five doors in the house. The bathroom,

521
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: in the living room or one of the few rooms

522
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: actually separated by a door. And if you look on

523
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: the outside, each of those four floors is a different room.

524
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: That's how skinny it is.

525
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, exactly exactly.

526
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 2: And the youngest daughter's bedroom actually shared the floor with

527
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 2: a closet.

528
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, how does that work?

529
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: That's all they had room for. They have a bedroom

530
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 1: on the third floor, a closet and stairs. So if

531
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: you want to go to the master bedroom on the

532
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: top floor, you got to walk through your daughter's room.

533
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: I'm sure every teenage girl would love that.

534
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 3: There's no walls either. You just walk into that floor

535
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 3: and you're in the room. Am I right? Right?

536
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: Yes? Yeah, yeah, I don't think there's a door. I

537
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: think it's just the stairs.

538
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 3: Got it.

539
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, not particularly conducive to privacy, you know, So, like

540
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 2: you said, yeah, teenage girl would not be down with that.

541
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 2: So nine hundred and sixty four square feet is what

542
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 2: we're dealing with here, just to give you a clear

543
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 2: picture for folks out there that are into, you know, measuring.

544
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 3: Stuff, and to add insults injury.

545
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 2: I suppose with all this lack of privacy, the house

546
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 2: became something of a draw for tourists, so they would

547
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 2: pretty commonly find folks camped out, you know, in their

548
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 2: yard taking pictures.

549
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: I wonder why they didn't build out the backyard at

550
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 1: least a little bit, you know, and put maybe put

551
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: a garden on the roof somewhere. Anyway, you know what,

552
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,479
Speaker 1: it's a it's a piece of history now, so you

553
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: can't there's probably a law preventing them from doing too

554
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: much renovation to it. But that house was built entirely

555
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: despite the story, as you said, Noel, does seem a

556
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: bit apocryphal. There aren't a ton of really solid sources

557
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: on how it was constructed. I think the closest we

558
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: could find here is that if you go to the

559
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: Boston City Archives, you can see in the Hopkins Atlas

560
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: of eighteen seventy four the way the land was split

561
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: up into five lots in the eighteen eighties.

562
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 3: And we have a good.

563
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: Friend of ours, Frank well Heron, who's appeared on Idiomatic

564
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: for the people. He's worked in this world before, and

565
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: he can attest how sketchy land deeds and titles can

566
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: get right when you go that far back, because at

567
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:58,719
Speaker 1: that point, isn't it mainly handwriting?

568
00:30:59,000 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 3: I think that's right.

569
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, you have to definitely go to you know, physical

570
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 2: archives and records to pull these sort of chains of custody,

571
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,760
Speaker 2: you know, for making sure that a title is quote

572
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 2: unquote clear.

573
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 1: And I kind of want to go there. You know

574
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: what it reminds me of. It reminds me of the

575
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: tiny house movement. It's a little bit bigger than the

576
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 1: popular tiny houses. And oh, our Palchris Vrosiotis had owned

577
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: out tiny house. I always wanted to live in one,

578
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,719
Speaker 1: But I'm wondering if I just liked the idea of

579
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: it more than the actual experience, you know what I mean?

580
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 2: Sure, I mean the skinny house is I guess, kind

581
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 2: of ahead of its time in that way. And you know,

582
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 2: Ben my favorite, you know, if I'm paying for my

583
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,719
Speaker 2: own hotel when I go to New York, I very

584
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 2: much love to stay in the Pod Hotel, which is

585
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 2: the tiny house of hotels. It's like a ship's cabin,

586
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 2: you know, with bunk beds and like the desk built

587
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,760
Speaker 2: into the wall and stuff. But it's very ergonomic and

588
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 2: I stay there all the time. I couldn't recommend it more.

589
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 2: It's a fun experience, but maybe not for like all

590
00:31:58,840 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 2: the time.

591
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 3: Right, yeah.

592
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 1: I mean one thing that's great about that, and this

593
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,880
Speaker 1: is not a paid ad for for pot hotels, is

594
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: places like that also encourage you to go out and

595
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: explore the city, which I absolutely love about them. The

596
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 1: only place I've spent some time in there was a

597
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: little too small for me capsule hotels and I don't

598
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 1: have claustrophobia, but that's a that's a tight fit.

599
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 3: I don't recommend it, no, no, no, no.

600
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 2: I mean even after like you know, two or three

601
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 2: days in the pot hotel, if you're staying with somebody,

602
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 2: it's it's time to go, and right time to go

603
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 2: your separate ways. But it's still fun. I stayed there

604
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 2: with my kid recently actually only had a good old time.

605
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 3: But yeah, it does.

606
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 2: You're right about that, because at the end of the day,

607
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 2: a hotel is just a place to you know, hang

608
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 2: your hat and grab a little shut eye. If you're

609
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 2: spending all your time in the hotel room. What are

610
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 2: you even doing right?

611
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: And speaking of time to go, it is time for

612
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: us to hit the hit the old dusty trail of

613
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: the in folks, we are returning, as my partner in

614
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: History Crime said earlier, we're going to be back on

615
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: Thursday with part two of Spiteful Architecture Part two, So

616
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 1: it's like two points, you know what, don't think about

617
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: it too much, just join us in giving a big

618
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: old thanks to mister Max Williams, our super producer, our

619
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: architect who has chosen a higher path than spite. Thank

620
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 1: you and congratulations Max.

621
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and don't call it a comeback, but do come

622
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 2: back for part two of Part two of spite Architecture.

623
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 2: Huge thanks to christophrasiotis here in spirit, who we mentioned

624
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 2: a tiny house trailblazer in his own right, Jonathan Strickland,

625
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 2: it truly is our spider architecture.

626
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:49,400
Speaker 3: I think we can all agree. And to you Ben, yeah,

627
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 3: that was fun.

628
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: Yeah and also with.

629
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 3: You, let's see you next out folks.

630
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

631
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.