1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Tutor Dixon Podcast in the Clay 2 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: and Book podcast Network. Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: We are a week into the United Auto Workers strike 4 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: and many folks are wondering what exactly that means for 5 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 1: industry in this country, and some probably haven't even realized 6 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: how damaging it could be. But one guy who keeps 7 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: up on everything automotive is Henry Payne. Henry is a 8 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: thirty year newspaper veteran and current auto columnist and critic 9 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: for The New or for the Detroit News. He is 10 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: also the host of nine ten am Detroit Radio's Car 11 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: Radio program and a Pulitzer Prize nominated cartoonist. Let's Talk 12 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: Everything Automotive. Welcome Henry, Thank you so much for being 13 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: here today. 14 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 2: Hey, Tudor, good to be with you. 15 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: So obviously we're talking a lot these days about the 16 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: UAW strikes. We see that political folks on both sides 17 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: are getting involved in it. But in Michigan, I know 18 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: that I've been talking to some of the supply to 19 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: the automotive industry and they're getting a little nervous. 20 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 2: You know. 21 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 1: We know that today there's talks of continued strikes and 22 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: expanded strikes if a deal is not reached, and it 23 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,680 Speaker 1: looks like a deal may not be reached because it 24 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 1: seems like two sides are still fairly far apart. So 25 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 1: from your perspective as an expert in the industry, what 26 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: do you see happening in these states that are very 27 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: reliant on the automotive industry. 28 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 2: I think this is a huge strike. I think this 29 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 2: is going to go on for a while. Sean Fain, 30 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 2: who is the head of the UAW, has been very militant. 31 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 2: He's struck three automakers at the same time. This is historic, 32 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 2: never happened before in the eighty year history of UAW 33 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 2: Detroit three relations, So I think it's very serious. Those 34 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 2: plants are major volume plants, major profit producers for all 35 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:54,240 Speaker 2: three automakers. The Ford Bronco plan here in Michigan, the 36 00:01:54,320 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 2: Jeep Toledo plant, huge plant in Ohio, and the truck 37 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 2: assembly for GM and Missouri. So these are massive plants, 38 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 2: big profit centers. The ripple effects are already being felled 39 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 2: across the country because these are just in time inventory plants. 40 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 2: This is a very efficient industry and so you're already 41 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 2: seeing suppliers shut down, supplier employees being laid off, and 42 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 2: this is exactly what the UAW wants. It wants to 43 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 2: take it to the Big three, create pain, and also 44 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 2: bring Washington on their side, because Washington is remaking the 45 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 2: US auto industry right now, remaking it as an electric 46 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 2: industry much like states regulate utilities. So I think the 47 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 2: UAW season opportunity to use its democratic allies in Washington 48 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 2: in the White House to really force the Big three 49 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 2: to make a historic agreement. 50 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 1: Well, I want to dig into what you said there 51 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,679 Speaker 1: about this is the first time they've struck against all 52 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: three automakers and what that really means, because we hear 53 00:02:57,040 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 1: a lot of people. I mean, I've seen the lawmakers 54 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: out there on the picket line saying economic justice, we 55 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: want these people paid. But I just want to go 56 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: a little bit deeper here, because when costs go up 57 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,320 Speaker 1: at the big three auto makers, it's not really it 58 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: is Americans who suffer. It's no one else. Because you 59 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: have all these suppliers that then they get the squeeze. 60 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: They're already not able to pay the salaries that you're 61 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: seeing at the actual auto plants, the auto assembly plants, 62 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: the average salary we know is seventy eight thousand dollars 63 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: a year. That's not what we're hearing from these folks 64 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: that are striking. But when you have all three strike, 65 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,639 Speaker 1: I think that's key because I talk to a lot 66 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: of auto auto suppliers, and I used to sell to 67 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: a lot of the auto suppliers because I worked for 68 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: one of the big steel makers in Chicago, and those 69 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: folks felt like they were diversified in the industry if 70 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: they were in GM, Stilantis, and Ford because they didn't 71 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: expect all three to go down at one time. How 72 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: many jobs does this truly threaten when you have all 73 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: three down at one time and suppliers are no longer 74 00:03:58,000 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: diversified at all. 75 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a lot of jobs potentially affected with these strikes. 76 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 2: With these free plants out, you got about ten percent 77 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 2: of the big three Detroit three automakers out. But remember, Tutor, 78 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 2: this industry is much bigger now in the United States 79 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 2: than just the Detroit three. About half the employment auto 80 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 2: assembly employment in this country is non union. You go 81 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 2: three hours south of Detroit, which is the epicenter of 82 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 2: this strike. You go three hours south of here to Columbus, 83 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 2: Honda and acur are churning out Honda A Cords, Honda 84 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 2: crvs Honda Civics NonStop. They are unaffected by this strike 85 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 2: because they are non union. Go to Texas or California 86 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 2: where Tesla produces trucks and the best selling luxury car 87 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 2: in the United States, the Tesla Model three and the 88 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:56,239 Speaker 2: Tesla Model Y, non union plants they continue to run. 89 00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 2: So this is an enormous competitive disadvantage to Detroit. Three 90 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 2: has been for some time to have unions in their shop. 91 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 2: So they're resisting, you know, the demands of this union, 92 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 2: which are really over the top because they know that 93 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 2: they have competitor industries right here in the United States. 94 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 2: They're going to take market share the longer this strike 95 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 2: goes on. 96 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk about that for a second, because obviously 97 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:26,559 Speaker 1: we've seen the automakers kind of migrating out of these 98 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,040 Speaker 1: states that have unions. I mean, they've been leaving Michigan 99 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: slowly for a long time. For just invested eleven billion 100 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: into Kentucky and Tennessee, those are non union states. We 101 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: can see the writing on the wall. I mean, I 102 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 1: think most of us see the writing on the wall 103 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 1: that they're going to get away from unions. But when 104 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: you look at what Sean Fain is doing right now, 105 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 1: a forty six percent increase in pay is what they're 106 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: asking for on a thirty two hour work week. And 107 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 1: then you have to question is this time and a 108 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: half regular? I mean, essentially you're asking for time and 109 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: a half permanently, but then if you have to work 110 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: an extra eight hour you get time and a half 111 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:03,720 Speaker 1: on that. I mean, this is all there's a lot 112 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: of questions here. They're also saying they're demanding that they 113 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: go back to a pension. We've seen what pensions have done. 114 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: We all remember bailing out the auto industry. Pensions are 115 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 1: just not the future. Going back that direction could be catastrophic. 116 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:21,480 Speaker 1: We've also been told, well, these companies no longer deserve 117 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,919 Speaker 1: to make a profit. They've had record profits and so 118 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: we must make sure they don't get that profit. But 119 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: if we kind of expand this over time, we've seen 120 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: record or near record profits with these three companies for 121 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 1: eighteen months. 122 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 2: Now. 123 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: Let's remember during the pandemic there really were very little 124 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: profits and we had a lot of our car dealers 125 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: who massively suffered during the pandemic. So is this really 126 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: at this point, if you are one of these three automakers, 127 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: can you say, oh, well, I project long term that 128 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: will always have these profits or is this an artificial 129 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 1: bump and you need to have more data to really say, 130 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: can we share those profits permanently? Is this so unreasonable 131 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: that ultimately these guys go, hey, we're done with unions 132 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: in states like Michigan that just restored right or just 133 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: revoked right to work are suddenly in a situation where 134 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: you lose even more jobs after we've had all these 135 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: people move out of the state. 136 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 2: Well, tutor, as you say you're you're for manufacturing, I'm 137 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 2: from a manufacturing family. Record profits in manufacturing is a 138 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 2: relative term. I mean, this is this is this is 139 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 2: not uh yeah, this isn't Silicon Valley where they're racking 140 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 2: up profits on iPhones built in China. Manufacturing is a 141 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 2: very tight profit margin, uh five percent, you know, eight 142 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 2: percent if you're having a really good year. Uh, and 143 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 2: so this is really painful. Labor makes up five percent 144 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 2: of the cost of manufacturing a vehicle. That's quite a bit. 145 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 2: Uh So you know, every dime counts in manufacturing. And 146 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 2: these these talks are crucial because already the non union 147 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 2: plants in this country. Tesla pays forty five dollars an hour, 148 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 2: Honda Kentucky, Honda and Ohio, Toyota and Kentucky pay about 149 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 2: fifty five dollars an hour. The average AW plant sixty 150 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 2: five dollars an hour, so they're already not competitive from 151 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 2: a wage perspective. Again, manufacturing, you see these battery plants 152 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 2: which are being mandated mandated by the government are moving 153 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 2: to Tennessee, low cost manufacturing states like Tennessee and Kentucky 154 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 2: where they can draw cheap electricity. Electricity up here and 155 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 2: the Great Lakes is not very cheap, so they're moving 156 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 2: these battery plants to the South, in part because those 157 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 2: are right to work states, but also just because the 158 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 2: electricity is cheaper. Battery plants take an enormous amount of 159 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 2: energy to manufacture, and the reunions are really worried about those. 160 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: How ironic, because they're supposed to be so much better 161 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: for the environment and they take all of this energy. 162 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 2: Yeah no, that's right. And you have this I mean 163 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 2: and is really pinching these industries because you have these 164 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 2: climate regulations that are forcing utility rates up in coal 165 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 2: heavy states like Michigan, that forces manufacturing out of this state, 166 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 2: forces it down south to countries that have or to 167 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 2: states that have more hydro that have cheaper electricity. So 168 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 2: the more you get government involved, the more it causes 169 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 2: disruption in this industry. You're seeing disruption in where new 170 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 2: plants are being built, You're seeing disruption in these strikes, 171 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 2: and Tutor, the other piece of this is the Biden 172 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 2: Administration's insane war on fossil fuels is driving up the 173 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 2: cost of gas in this country. Gas in the last 174 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 2: couple of years has gone from two point fifty a 175 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 2: gallon to four dollars a gallon average. Who does that hurt? 176 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 2: That hurts the working man, the working man and woman 177 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 2: who drives to an assembly plant every day from Detroit 178 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 2: out to an assembly plant that goes straight to their 179 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 2: bottom line. So these workers who have not had cost 180 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 2: of living increases in a decade, even these UAW workers 181 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 2: that are feeling the pain because the energy prices that 182 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 2: the Body administration is driving up or hurting them in 183 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:15,479 Speaker 2: the pocketbook. 184 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on 185 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon podcast. Well, and everything is more expensive 186 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: when gas prices go up, because you see I mean, 187 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: everything you buy has to be moved. Everything that is 188 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: moved costs more money. Because moving anything you have to 189 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: fill something with fuel, and fuel is more expensive. It's outrageous. 190 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:40,840 Speaker 1: The trickle effect of this is the reason we have 191 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: so many families that are struggling to pay the grocery 192 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: bill right now. It is outrageous. And yet we keep 193 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:51,439 Speaker 1: hearing from well, I would say in general, I mean, 194 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: I would say both sides. We keep hearing people say, well, 195 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: we've got to take care of the climate. We've got 196 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: to you know, this is the most dangerous thing that 197 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: we see on the horizon. Meanwhile, people are suffering with 198 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:05,319 Speaker 1: folks that are having fentanyl overdoses. People are on the streets. 199 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: We've now seen carjackings in people's garages. I mean, this 200 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: is kind of people seem to be a little tone 201 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 1: deaf right now on what's going on. But I want 202 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: to get to something you said, because I think that 203 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,319 Speaker 1: you talked about something that a lot of people don't understand. 204 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,319 Speaker 1: When you are not in manufacturing, the margin is so tight. 205 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 1: Profits one day could be deficits the next, and this 206 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:30,199 Speaker 1: is something that is just it's it is so hard 207 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: to control and in the midst of this, you have 208 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,719 Speaker 1: a massive research and development project going on with all 209 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: of these companies because they're being told your core product 210 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: is no good anymore and the government's going to shut 211 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: that down. Any mean to imagine having the government come 212 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: into your business and say you're done. This is what 213 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: you're gonna do now, we're not helping you. You got 214 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: to pay to make it happen, and we are actually 215 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:54,839 Speaker 1: not going to make sure that people can actually fuel 216 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: their cars this way because it's a little unreasonable. But 217 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: Ford lost four point five million dollars just on evs 218 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: last year. They've put a lot of research and development 219 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: into this. You see politicians on both sides. We've got 220 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: Joe Biden saying I'm sending negotiators in. You've got Donald 221 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 1: Trump saying he's going to come in and meet with 222 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: these guys on the ground. How does this help anybody 223 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: politically to get involved in this right now? When there 224 00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 1: are so many families and their paychecks are hanging and 225 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: I say families meeting, families that are UAW workers and 226 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: families that are at these suppliers, and everybody is on 227 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: edge right now, what do they see when they see 228 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,719 Speaker 1: these politicians going, we'll come in and save the day. 229 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 2: Well, this is a heavily politicized industry. Now the federal 230 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:44,960 Speaker 2: government in California, California has enormous power here from a 231 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 2: regulatory standpoint, are essentially trying to turn these companies into 232 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 2: utilities by mandating that they make a certain powertrain, an 233 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 2: electric powertrain. So these politics is a very big piece 234 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 2: of that, and it's a political year. Sean the president 235 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 2: of the UAW, he knows that we're going into a 236 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:09,319 Speaker 2: political year. The federal government last month gave Ford Motor 237 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 2: Company nine billion dollars toward a battery plant because they know, 238 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:19,559 Speaker 2: and they talk to Ford, they know how unprofitable evs are. 239 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,319 Speaker 2: And so you have the federal government trying to help 240 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 2: Ford develop these batteries that they the government are mandating. 241 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 2: Sean Fame sees that. He says, look, you're going to 242 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 2: send nine billion dollars to Ford Motor Company, how about 243 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 2: sending some billions our way to the UAW Because electric 244 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 2: vehicles require forty percent less labor to assemble than a 245 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 2: gas engine. So he very much knows the politics of this. 246 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 2: Then you bring in Donald Trump and the Republican Party. Look, 247 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:57,559 Speaker 2: at the gains that the Republican Party made in West Virginia, Ohio, 248 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 2: Pennsylvania in the two thousands sixteen election, when the same 249 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 2: thing happened to the United mind Workers. The EPA started 250 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 2: a mandate coal out of existence in a decade ago, 251 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 2: and the United mind Workers lost thousands of jobs. Into 252 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 2: that vacuum came Donald Trump rolled up West Virginia, one 253 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 2: of the most Republican states in the Union now, as 254 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 2: well as key votes in Pennsylvania and Ohio. I think 255 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 2: Trump sees that same opportunity now with the United Auto 256 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 2: Workers in Michigan, at key swing state. He's going to 257 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 2: be here next week talking to auto workers. 258 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: And it'll be really interesting to see. I think that 259 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen that was a little different situation because 260 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: he could go in and say, I'm going to preserve 261 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: your jobs. Your jobs are going to be here, and 262 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 1: I think that's the same thing that happened in Michigan 263 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen. He came in and he said, Hey, 264 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: we're going to tell the auto workers or the auto makers, 265 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: you can't go to Mexico. You have to stay in 266 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: the United States. I'm going to make it so that 267 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: they can't leave. And the auto workers were like, this 268 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: is great. He's going to protect our jobs. Now you've 269 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: got this battle between the workers in the companies that 270 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: makes it a little bit different dynamic. And I think 271 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: that if you talk about the power that they feel 272 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: they have because of the leadership that they have supported, 273 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: and they have put millions of dollars into Democrat leadership 274 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 1: and they're holding you know, you've got Sean Fayn who 275 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: feels a lot of power. You can tell he feels 276 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 1: a lot of power right now. He's out there saying, 277 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: you know, I'm going to decide who gets my endorsement 278 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: and we'll see if they support us. And Joe Biden 279 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: hasn't gotten the endorsement, but he says he's the union president. 280 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: But I'll say in twenty two, we talked to a 281 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: lot of these different manufacturers and went to the Michigan 282 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: Manufacturers meeting and Stillantis looked at me and they said, 283 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: do you support the corporate welfare that we're getting? And 284 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: I said, to be honest with you, you all sign NDAs 285 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: on all this corporate welfare. So I would want to 286 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: see what the deals are and just make sure that 287 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: this is advantageous to the Michigan people. All these millions, 288 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: that hundreds of millions that we're spending, Well, that was 289 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: a turn off to Stalantis, as you can imagine. And 290 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: the word we got on the street is the manufacturers 291 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: decided to endorse Whitmer because they wanted to make sure 292 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: they still have that. I'm sure they're wondering, well, what 293 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: is Whitmer doing right now? And the UAW seems to 294 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: be putting pressure, Hey, you better stick with us as 295 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: because we put millions into your campaign. We haven't heard 296 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: much from her. This is happening in her state. What 297 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: do you do in the situation where you've accepted this 298 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: money to run the state to lead from both entities. 299 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: You've accepted it from the manufacturers, You've accepted it from 300 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,760 Speaker 1: the UAW. Now they're at war. This could be bad 301 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: for Donald Trump as well as Joe Biden. 302 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 2: Yes, it's tricky, you know, just to see who shows 303 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 2: up on a if anybody shows up on a picket 304 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 2: line next week. Picket Lines are difficult things. As you say, 305 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 2: they're very confrontational because they're pitting company against against union. 306 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 2: But the Democratic Party here in the state is very 307 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 2: nervous that Joe Biden has not shown up yet on 308 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:08,439 Speaker 2: on a picket line. Uh. 309 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: These auditors, they're all out there, all of all of 310 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 1: them are yeah. 311 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,879 Speaker 2: They're They're yeah, they're they're They're very nervous about what 312 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 2: this means. As I say, they saw what happened in 313 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:22,360 Speaker 2: twenty sixteen with the rank and file going to vote 314 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 2: for Donald Trump. I'm a West Virginia boy. West Virginia 315 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty four was one of three states that 316 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 2: voted for Mondale in two. In twenty and twenty, West 317 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 2: Virginia was the reddest state in the Union had the 318 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 2: highest percentage of voters vote for Donald Trump. It's been 319 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 2: that big a swing in my home state simply because 320 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 2: the EPA is trying to regulate coal out of existence. 321 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 2: The same dynamic I think is in play with auto 322 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,400 Speaker 2: workers now that the ev push that the Biden administration 323 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 2: is making drives jobs to China. That is a key, 324 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 2: a key component of Donald Trump's and paign and any 325 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 2: Republicans campaign. The minerals that are sourced for batteries, and 326 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 2: again these are batteries are being mandated by California, by Washington. 327 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 2: Eighty percent of those minerals come from China. The reason 328 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 2: that Ford is partnering with c at L, a huge 329 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 2: Chinese battery company in Michigan, is because that's where all 330 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 2: the batteries come from. They all come from China. So 331 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 2: I think this is right in the Republican wheelhouse. You know, 332 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 2: why is the Washington establishment making us more dependent on 333 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 2: China at a time when we have the greatest fossil 334 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 2: fuel resources in the world right underneath our feet. 335 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: Well, and you're not buying a car anymore. If you 336 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: buy an EV you're buying a battery, and you've had 337 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: this experience of driving the battery around the state, and 338 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: the state of Michigan batteries don't do so well in 339 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: the winter. I mean, I think people, if you don't 340 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: fully understand an electric vehicle, the battery is the same 341 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: size as the car. I mean, the base of the 342 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: car is essentially a battery. The battery is very heavy, 343 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: it is filled with a lot of toxic material. You're 344 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,919 Speaker 1: driving this around. It's going to also destroy our roads. 345 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: If you've suddenly had all of these much heavier vehicles 346 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: on our roads, it would be catastrophic. But if you're 347 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: in Michigan and you're driving around this giant battery. Guess what, 348 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 1: batteries don't love the freezing cold temperatures, And in Michigan, 349 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: you're not going to avoid that. At a certain point 350 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: in the year, you're going to have a it's going 351 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,199 Speaker 1: to be cold temperatures outside. So what is it like 352 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 1: to try to transition into this industry that really doesn't 353 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 1: make sense. On top of the fact that you don't 354 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: have the power to power these cars, but if you did, 355 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: you'd be doing it with coal, which seems totally counterintuitive 356 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,479 Speaker 1: to going to China, investing in China, taking all these 357 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: materials from China to get these batteries here, and then 358 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,719 Speaker 1: if your battery goes bad on your car, you need 359 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 1: to get a new car. I mean, this is kind 360 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: of crazy, isn't it. 361 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean thing comes from the ground, lithium ion 362 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 2: comes from the ground. If you want to if you 363 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 2: want to power it, you need to power it with 364 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 2: electricity that comes from the ground, that comes from natural gas, 365 00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 2: from coal, from utilities. I mean, this idea that Governor 366 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 2: Whitman puts forward that you can power uh Michigan electric 367 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 2: cars with windmills is a pipe dream. So so you 368 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 2: have that dynamic I own a Tesla. 369 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: Right, that's because that's happening immediately. 370 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 2: I mean, she's she's trying to regulate that this state 371 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 2: a major industrial state. Uh, go go all non fossil 372 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 2: fuel over the next decade. It's uh, it's it's it's 373 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 2: hard to hard to believe somebody in leadership believes that. 374 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 2: But to the point of electric cars, I'm a car. 375 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 2: I love cars. I love diesel cars, gas cars, electric cars, 376 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 2: I own them all. I own it. I own a Tesla, 377 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 2: I drive a Tesla as well as gas fired cars. 378 00:20:55,840 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 2: They are wonderful things. But that's why consumer markets are 379 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 2: so healthy, because consumers figure out what works in their 380 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:09,199 Speaker 2: in their life. And uh, to date, electric cars are 381 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:13,440 Speaker 2: a niche vehicle. They're very different vehicles to drive. They 382 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 2: work well in metro areas where you can go home 383 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 2: at night, plug in overnight at fifteen cents to kill 384 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,679 Speaker 2: a lot hour, and drive around do your errands the 385 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 2: next day. It's that's cheaper than gasoline. Go on the 386 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 2: road where electricity is a lot more expensive. In fact, 387 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 2: if you if you fill up at a DC fast charger, 388 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 2: it is more expensive than four dollars a gallon gasoline. 389 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 2: Because it's expensive to bring all that voltage into Yeah, 390 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 2: it's expensive to bring all that voltage into say a 391 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 2: mere or a Walmart parking lot. So it's more expensive 392 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,639 Speaker 2: to fuel up my Tesla on the road than it 393 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 2: is my wife's Subaru and present at four dollars a 394 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:58,920 Speaker 2: gallon gas. Then you then you bring into into effect weather. 395 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 2: Batteries are always affected by weather. My Tesla is allegedly 396 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 2: three hundred miles of range. That's in perfect seventy degree 397 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 2: California weather at fifty five miles an hour. You take 398 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,679 Speaker 2: my car up north at eighty miles an hour in 399 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 2: fifty degree weather, that range is going to degrade by 400 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 2: twenty five percent. And that's significant when you're looking for 401 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 2: a place to fuel. Gasoline, the most energy intense fuel 402 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,439 Speaker 2: on the planet. You can get five hundred miles and 403 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 2: five minutes you're off on your way a battery, it'll 404 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 2: take you an hour to fill up five hundred miles. 405 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 2: So it's a very different equation. That's why government should 406 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 2: not be involved in this market. Let consumers figure it out. 407 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: Let's take a quick commercial break. We'll continue next on 408 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: the Tutor Dixon Podcast. When you see these CEOs of 409 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: the big automakers interviewed. You can tell they're kind of 410 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,199 Speaker 1: hemming and hyhing about EV vehicles and they're trying not 411 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 1: to say anything too negative, but they're like, come on. 412 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,120 Speaker 1: You can see their faces are saying, let's live in reality. 413 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: And it was Ford CEO who essentially was pretty much saying, 414 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: I mean, we have to be realistic. This is a 415 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 1: toy for the wealthy. You know, if you can afford 416 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 1: to have a second vehicle you can drive when it's 417 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: convenient to drive one that has to be charged, then 418 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:21,959 Speaker 1: you're the person that's going to buy an EV. If 419 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: you're the regular person who can't afford to spend twice 420 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:26,640 Speaker 1: as much on a car and just have it sit 421 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: there some of the time, then you're not going to 422 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 1: do that. And let's face it, that is more than 423 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: half of the people in the country. That is the 424 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 1: majority of people in the country that are going to say, 425 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: there's no way this is not in my budget, especially 426 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: under Bidenomics. But let's look at what is happening to 427 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 1: car dealers. If you have an EV on your lot, 428 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: it's taking one hundred and three days to sell, as 429 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: compared to a gas car that's taking forty five days 430 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 1: to sell. And I'll say I was just in the 431 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: market for a new car at the beginning of the 432 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: summer and there are no cars on the lots. They 433 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: don't they have a chip problem, they have all kinds 434 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: of issues. They're like, you can't order a car, you 435 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: can't tell us what you want. You can get white, 436 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,160 Speaker 1: black or gray, and we'll let you know when it's 437 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: coming in and what the features are. And they're just 438 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 1: selling them as they're coming in. Evs not the case. 439 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: They're just sitting there. So what is What are these 440 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:16,919 Speaker 1: guys that are in automotive, ladies and men who are 441 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: at the higher level of automotive going, oh my word, 442 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,160 Speaker 1: how are we going to actually sell these? But then 443 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: you go to the dealers. What's it like to be 444 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: a dealer right now? First of all, they're all freaked 445 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: out about the strike, but secondly they're being told they 446 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: have to switch over to these cars they simply can't sell. 447 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a niche market right now, but consider the 448 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 2: pressure that the manufacturers are under. California, which is by 449 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 2: far the biggest auto market in this country and also 450 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 2: dictates regulations to another fourteen states beyond California. By twoenty 451 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 2: twenty six, California is mandating that manufacturers sell thirty five 452 00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 2: percent of their inventory as ev If they fail, car 453 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 2: that drops below that thirty five percent mandate gets penalized 454 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 2: twenty thousand dollars. We're talking about billions of dollars of 455 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 2: fines these manufacturers are facing. In twenty twenty six that mandate. 456 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 2: That goes up to forty eight percent in twenty twenty eight, 457 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 2: that mandate goes up to sixty five percent in twenty forty. 458 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 2: So the manufacturers are flooding dealers with evs because they're 459 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 2: trying to figure out if there's a market for these 460 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 2: vehicles and just trying to gauge whether they can come 461 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 2: anywhere close to those mandates. You go to California right now, 462 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,919 Speaker 2: about twenty percent of sales or evs, seventy percent of 463 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:47,800 Speaker 2: that is our teslas. So for the industry as a whole, 464 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 2: now I'm a little a little off on my percentage, 465 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 2: but yeah, don't don't don't don't do my math for 466 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 2: me here. But essentially, manufacturers in California right now who 467 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 2: are not TESLA only five percent of their sales or 468 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:05,679 Speaker 2: evs by twenty twenty six. That number needs to be 469 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 2: thirty five percent or they're facing billions in fines. And 470 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 2: you got the EPA right behind California doing the same 471 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,920 Speaker 2: doing the same thing, bringing in these very similar fines. 472 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 2: Last year, Dodge was fined seven hundred million dollars for 473 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 2: missing EPA emissions targets. You can't continue to operate as 474 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:26,120 Speaker 2: a company. 475 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,360 Speaker 1: It's almost like you have to leave those states if 476 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,880 Speaker 1: you are one of these auto makers. You know, it's 477 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,120 Speaker 1: almost like you got to say, well, we're just we're 478 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,200 Speaker 1: not going to play there. And I want to talk 479 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 1: a little bit about what it is. But I know 480 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: we're you know, we're getting we're running out of time, 481 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: but I really quickly want to hit Gretchen Whitmer went 482 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: out and she went to the rally with Bernie Sanders 483 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: and she said, we stand with the auto makers. You know, 484 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,240 Speaker 1: I stand or with the I stand with the auto workers, 485 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: and the automakers need to come to the table now. 486 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,680 Speaker 1: The automakers again, we talked about what the demands are 487 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,119 Speaker 1: of the union. The automaker came back and they said, hey, 488 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,920 Speaker 1: we're going to go with better benefits, We're going to 489 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 1: go with no more tiered workers. We're going to make 490 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,919 Speaker 1: sure that we have five weeks of vacation, fifteen personal days, 491 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 1: and we're going to give you a twenty percent raise. 492 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: And to me, that's coming to the table. Yet you 493 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 1: have Joe Biden saying, hey, these automakers, they've got to 494 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: come to the table. Well wait, wait a minute. They 495 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: have come to the table. Gretcha, wait a minute. They 496 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,159 Speaker 1: have come to the table. They've made an offer, but 497 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:28,239 Speaker 1: they're getting blown off. What does this mean to the 498 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 1: country if you see this strike go any longer? Because 499 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,680 Speaker 1: right now they've been striking at these three plants, they're 500 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: going they say, they're going to strike at more plants 501 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: if this goes into a full strike. Let's be real here. 502 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,080 Speaker 1: The reason they've only been striking at the three plants 503 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: is because they have a certain strike fund. They don't 504 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: want to run that out because if they run that out, 505 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 1: they only have eleven weeks of strike. If they can 506 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: strike at all, if they strike at all automakers at once, 507 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,639 Speaker 1: at all the plants at once, they're striking at a 508 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: few to run that out, I mean more than eleven weeks. 509 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: I think if we see more than eleven weeks We're 510 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: going to end up with a massive amount of Tier one, two, 511 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: and three suppliers that are just going to go under. 512 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: How does this affect the number of jobs across the 513 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: nation if we see these strikes go any longer. 514 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 2: Well, it shifts those jobs toward transplant automakers. You know, 515 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,400 Speaker 2: the longer the strike goes on, the more the inventory 516 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 2: of Detroit Detroit three automakers dry up, the more their 517 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:30,120 Speaker 2: costs go up, and consumers will start looking to hont To, Toyota, Tesla, 518 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 2: their competitors who are not affected by these strikes. So 519 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:39,480 Speaker 2: it's a competitive difficulty for the Detroit three. I will 520 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 2: say that I think part of the strategy by the 521 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 2: UAW is to use electrification to try to disadvantage the 522 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 2: transplant automakers. The regulation right now is that if you 523 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 2: build an EV, you only get tax credits for that 524 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 2: EV if you build it in the United States. So 525 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 2: I think the UAW is also trying to use this 526 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 2: EV regulation. These EV regulations the disadvantage the non union 527 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 2: shops in this country who get supplies from elsewhere. So 528 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 2: it's a lot of politics that's involved in this industry. 529 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 2: It's sad to see, but the UAW strike is one 530 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 2: consequence of that. 531 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 1: Before I Let you Go, we just recently saw the 532 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: Teamsters go up against UPS. They put in massive demands. 533 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:33,719 Speaker 1: UPS started to feel the burn of those demands because 534 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: when they were at the table, they had customers leaving. 535 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: So they're watching some of their biggest customers leave, and 536 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:41,959 Speaker 1: they are at the point where they're like, Okay, we've 537 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: got to make a deal. That's an unhealthy deal because 538 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 1: if we don't, we won't be We're beyond the point 539 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: of making a deal. Once we start losing so many customers, 540 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,000 Speaker 1: we go under. That's what happened to Yellow Yellow Freight, 541 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: same deal. They're at the table with the Teamsters, they're like, hey, 542 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: they sent a letter to their employees directly and said, 543 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: I know you're a part of the union. We're trying 544 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: to preserve your jobs. If you guys don't come to 545 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: the table with us, the jobs are gone. I think 546 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: they said, we're going to call your bluff. Well, guess what, 547 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: Yellow Freight is no longer. They've they've filed for bankruptcy. 548 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,760 Speaker 1: At what point does Sean Fain go too far? He 549 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: feels a lot of power right now, But it looks 550 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: like these automakers are getting pretty mad and they're going 551 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,520 Speaker 1: to just say, hey, over the next five years, we're 552 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: going to move out of Michigan, Ohio, Missouri, these places 553 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:29,719 Speaker 1: and you're not going to have jobs. Is he putting 554 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: his members jobs on the line in it in a 555 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: way that is just he's just being too arrogant here. 556 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 2: Well, you're seeing the historic trend. Manufacturing unions are in 557 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 2: steady decline. Most of the union games these days are 558 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 2: in service industries, so Sean Fay knows that they're up 559 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 2: against history. Go into an autoplanted these days, it is 560 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 2: heavily occupied, occupied by robots. If you go to more electrification, which, 561 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 2: as I say, motors take about forty percent of labor 562 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 2: to assemble the gas engines. So I think he's he's 563 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 2: seeing the walls closing in. We already had a strike 564 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,480 Speaker 2: in twenty nineteen. These are not unusual things in this 565 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 2: industry because the union does see these historical trends and 566 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 2: they want to try to get the benefits they can now. 567 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 1: Well, he must have been thrilled to see Gretchen Whitmer 568 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: in Japan a couple of weeks ago at Finook, who 569 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: is one of the biggest makers of robots for the 570 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,720 Speaker 1: manufacturing industry, saying look at me. I'm here with all 571 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 1: these robots and we're planning to bring this to Michigan. 572 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 1: And I'm like, wow, this is so tone deuf. Look 573 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: at the picture. She's standing in the factory. There's not 574 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: a worker in there. Why because they don't need workers anymore. 575 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: And she's standing there in her ballet flats and her 576 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: little jacket and she's smiling that she's bringing these folks 577 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: right into the state of Michigan. And I'm going, you 578 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 1: have no idea what you're talking about. You're literally giving 579 00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: the middle finger to all the workers in the state 580 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: of Michigan. Like, look at my foreign policy experience. It's 581 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: just kind of bizarre to me to watch these politicians 582 00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: go out there and pretend like they know what they're 583 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: talking about, and they look so goofy to the people 584 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: who are going, man, that's my paycheck you're talking about. 585 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: It's been really interesting talking about this. I mean, I 586 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: think that the auto industry has been fascinating for the 587 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: last ten years. As we've seen the ebbs and flows, 588 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 1: when we've seen the bailout. Now we see this push 589 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: to change the industry. These guys must be going what 590 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 1: you want? What are you going to throw at us next? 591 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: But we will as we they throw it back at them. 592 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: We're going to go to you and ask you your 593 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: opinion because it's been so fun talking to you today. 594 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: Thank you Henry Payne for being here. 595 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks ju great to be with you. 596 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: And thank you all for joining us on the Tutor 597 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,280 Speaker 1: Dixon Podcast. For this episode and others, check out Tutor 598 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: diisonpodcast dot com. You can subscribe right there, or go 599 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: to the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get 600 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 1: your podcasts and join us next time on the Tutor 601 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,160 Speaker 1: Dixon Podcast. Have a blessed day.