1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 2 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: My guest today is a lion of the food world, 3 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: Andrew's Zimmer Andrew. Good to have nice to be here, 4 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: Thanks Bob. So, how have you been coping with COVID? 5 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: What's your life look like for the last eighteen months? Um? 6 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: I think when when I when I hear the word 7 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:35,840 Speaker 1: coping and COVID in the same sentence, Uh, it makes 8 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 1: me feel tired, sad and angry. Uh, tired because we've 9 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: been working harder than we've had to to stay above water. 10 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is that we've needed 11 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 1: the help of our fellows, and I'm not sure we've 12 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,639 Speaker 1: gotten that. A percent. We've needed the help of our governments, 13 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: and I'm not sure we've gotten that. I think we've 14 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: needed to come together in a way that is quite 15 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: frankly been because Austin and we we haven't been able 16 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: to achieve that as a nation. I thought this would 17 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: be the kind of thing that would be an automatic. Um, 18 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: you know, a a public health crisis, global public health crisis, 19 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 1: and safety and wellness of our citizenry is government's number 20 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 1: one obligation in my opinion. So tired, Uh, sad, I've 21 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 1: lost I've lost friends, I've lost loved ones, I've lost businesses, 22 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: I've lost money, I've lost time. I've lost so many 23 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: things to this horrific uh pandemic. And UH angry because 24 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: when I start talking about those first two, it just 25 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: makes me really piste off. We we we we could 26 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: have had this thing. And I mean that in the 27 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: full expression of the colloquial sense in which I suggested. 28 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: I mean, we really could have had this thing. Um. 29 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: I was very publicly outspoken about the I even used 30 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: the word genocide at one point with the Trump administrations 31 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 1: handling of this uh pandemic in our country, although it 32 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: did have very serious international implications, as we found out 33 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 1: later when when tapes of the former president came out. Um. 34 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: And I wasn't joking about that. I I you know, 35 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: we we fumbled the ball, fumbled the ball, fumbled the ball. Uh, 36 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: then we get a vaccine. Uh. And we're now in 37 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: a situation with the delta variant where we're we see 38 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: ourselves going down the exact same path that we did 39 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: uh in uh you know, a year and a half ago. 40 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: So UM, Yeah, tired, sad, and angry, Okay, let's break 41 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: it down to the more micro level. Since the lockdown 42 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 1: of March. Where have you been? Have you been still 43 00:02:54,720 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: been in the Minnesota area? Has you traveled at all? Sure? Uh? 44 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 1: I did the Bill Mar Show. I think the last 45 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: weekend before the country shut down. Uh it was either 46 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 1: the first uh weekend of March, end of February, beginning 47 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 1: of March. I did the Mars show. Uh. There was 48 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: no one in the audience. They didn't quite know what 49 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:21,959 Speaker 1: to do. They were about to go into lockdown. UM. 50 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 1: I remember no one being on the streets in Los Angeles. 51 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: I remember coming home and was here for uh, you know, 52 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: going back and forth between my home and my my 53 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: private office. There was an advantage to having an office 54 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: that's a huge loft space with uh four different doors 55 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: uh going into it. It's a it's a one floor 56 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: uh sort of little mini complex we have for all 57 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: of our businesses. So we very quickly you know, masked 58 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: signs tape on the floor, and three or four business 59 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: leads and are controller in there every day, uh, trying 60 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: to make sure that, um, you know, to keep our 61 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: businesses to float. And you know, we had to downsize 62 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: and you know, lost some businesses and and lost some 63 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: business within the businesses that were open. UM. I've started 64 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: traveling again in uh early summer, UH because we found 65 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: a window and the ability to shoot some stuff outside 66 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: that we could make some episodes of Family Dinner, my 67 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: show for Magnolia and do it safely, UH, with testing 68 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: with masks, with all of the precautions that were necessary 69 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:39,720 Speaker 1: to take and UH, you know, no one's sick. I'm 70 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: super proud of the fact that our company we have 71 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:47,359 Speaker 1: a spotless record. UM. And and that includes the families 72 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: that we worked with. I did one or two day 73 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: trips to places during the summer. You know, I looked 74 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 1: at some real estate and Nashville for a restaurant deal. 75 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 1: I did you know, some other stuff like that. UH 76 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: went out to l A and shot a bright shiny 77 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:03,360 Speaker 1: floor you know, game show for another network. UH, and 78 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:07,400 Speaker 1: did some stuff like that. UM. And went and visited 79 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: my kid. You know that my son goes to school 80 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 1: outside of the home in another state, and UH I 81 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: was unable to see him. He was home, I guess 82 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 1: for his last home visit. The beginning of February, right 83 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: for COVID went went bonkers and they didn't allow kids 84 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 1: to leave the facility or parents to pick up their 85 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: kids for a a local visit until the end of June. 86 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 1: And that was the longest I went without seeing my child. UM. 87 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 1: And I know some people haven't seen their parents or 88 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: other family members in in longer. UM. I only have 89 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 1: my own experience. Those five months were absolutely brutal. UM. 90 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 1: And you know I you know, no vacations, no nothing. 91 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: We we shot a couple of things over the last 92 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 1: couple of months. Uh. It's been nothing like our my 93 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: regular travel schedule, that's for sure. Everything's been canceled and UH. 94 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: And now I'm not so keen on traveling again until 95 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: I see where this thing is going over the next 96 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: couple of weeks, and certainly not to the places that 97 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: we uh you know, typically find very easy uh pickings 98 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: for shooting. UM, which is in a lot of states 99 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: that offer us a lot of flexibility, but also happened 100 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: to be ones that are exploding with outbreaks of real 101 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: life cases of the Delta variant and shuttered hospitals and 102 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: and story numbers. UM. We're in a Minnesota. By the way, 103 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: I think rates is substantial on the CDC website in 104 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 1: terms of UH uh exposure and caseload for the Delta variant. Uh, 105 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 1: but we're in the orange, but we're not in the red. Okay, 106 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: almost a non sequitur. You said you were on the 107 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: Bill mar Show, and I watched the show and it's 108 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 1: a fun show. Other than literally the experience. Do you 109 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: find that gives you any benefit? Does it? You know, 110 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: in the old days viewer on TV, everybody saw you 111 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: in a world where only a couple of million people 112 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: might see the number one readed network show. What's that like? 113 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: Brilliant question. Um, some shows I do because they're fun 114 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: and I want to do them. Uh. And it has 115 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: nothing to do with the exposure. You know. Sometimes people 116 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: say to me, hey, would you do this show? Do 117 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: you do that show? You're gonna get a lot of exposure, 118 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: And I remind people that I have, you know, hundreds 119 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: of hours of television available on an international streamer. That's 120 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: you know, available in a hundred and seventy five countries 121 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: around the world. Um. And I certainly am at that 122 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: point in my career where I'm not doing things for 123 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: for exposure. Um, the Mars Show, you have to remember, 124 00:07:55,760 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: timing wise, my MSNBC show What's Eating America had just 125 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: UH premiered two weeks beforehand, and so I wanted to 126 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: promote that show to a very like minded audience. UM. 127 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: I had done the Set Meyers Show, I had done 128 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: a whole bunch of other uh, you know, marketing and 129 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: pr stuff around the MSNBC show UH in early February 130 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: and late January, especially UH with jose Andres, who was 131 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: the in the first episode with me. UM. And when 132 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:38,199 Speaker 1: I got the invite to do the mar Show as 133 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: someone who watches it every weekend, it was an automatic. Yes. 134 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 1: Bill is very food obsessed and very opinionated about the 135 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 1: necessity for human beings to eat clean, healthy food, and 136 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 1: he actually wanted to talk about things that other shows 137 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: would rather not discuss, and I find that fascinating. UM. 138 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: And you know, fun these days in my career. If 139 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: it's not fun, and if it's not with people that 140 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: I'm really excited about talking to, sitting with, UH, visiting 141 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: who are who are kind of into talking about ideas 142 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 1: the way I am, I'm much less interested. What is 143 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: the number one publicity vehicle to get your message out? UH? Great? Great, 144 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: great question. UM. I would love to be UH doing 145 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: more in in cable news because as noisy as that is, 146 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: I know that a lot of people who deal with 147 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: public policy and and the making of laws are watching 148 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: those shows. And I believe if I do, if I 149 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 1: rant for fifteen minutes in one of my shows on 150 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: a lifestyle network about UH food policy or about uh 151 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: you know, aquaculture or other things that I believe are 152 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: are are vital or the necessity for a foods are 153 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 1: a cabinet level position UH and pulling food out of 154 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: AGG and and U S d A, f DA, etcetera. UM, 155 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: I think that the percentage of people who are watching 156 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: that lifestyle show do not that they want to be 157 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: entertained by me, and they want me to be teaching 158 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,560 Speaker 1: them other things. And I believe when I'm doing my work, 159 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 1: most notably on MSNBC of late, UM, I believe I 160 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: have the greatest impact. And that's kind of what I'm 161 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 1: looking to do uh these days. UM. And they are 162 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: also you know, UH opportunities online in the digital space 163 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: where you know, a good one minute clip of me 164 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:56,560 Speaker 1: UH talking about the something that I'm really impassionate about 165 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: on certain websites, podcasts, etcetera. I think I have a 166 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: tremendous opportunity to influence UH outcomes or a greater percentage 167 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: of a chance to influence outcomes. Okay, there has been 168 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: a lot of news about the impact of COVID in 169 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 1: lockdowns on restaurants. UH. The latest news prior to this 170 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: delta variant putting a huge question mark in was the 171 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: ability to get help. So this is where you have 172 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: a lot of expertise. What I'm asking you is to 173 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: what degree have the restaurants and the restaurant industry been 174 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: affected by this? To what degree can they get out? 175 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 1: And what are the economics of a restaurant. I know 176 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: some people that say, well, you know, they're asked to 177 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: invest in restaurants in Los Angeles and they get reservations, 178 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: but they're not looking to get their money back. Then 179 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: you have Danny Meyer's got an empire. So what are 180 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: the economics of the restaurant world? And then square that 181 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: with both the economics during COVID and especially the help situation. Well, 182 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: it's it's both those things are true at the same time. 183 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: It's it's as if you could invest in a a 184 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: Taylor Swift record and the latest Crosby record at the 185 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: same time. You know, you're you're you're looking at two 186 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:26,439 Speaker 1: very different things, but both our music. Right. UM, let 187 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: me let me take a step back and then bring 188 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 1: up to this this question of what we're looking at 189 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: now in terms of pay rate in restaurants, which is 190 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: extremely extremely important piece of the puzzle. UM. When COVID 191 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: went down and restaurants started to shut her, and we 192 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: saw the writing on the wall, seventeen of us, then 193 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: forty of us, on a series of emails and phone 194 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: calls and and skype calls and then zooms over a 195 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: two week period, co founded a group called the Independent 196 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: Restaurant Coalition Save Restaurants dot com. Every One can go 197 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: there and see everything that we've been up to. UM. 198 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: Chief among us were some people from very diverse backgrounds. 199 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:13,400 Speaker 1: Uh Sam Cass uh incredible chef, but had also been 200 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: uh former First Lady Michelle Obama's Uh foods are uh, 201 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: Tom Collichio Jose Andres myself, Uh, the whole slew of 202 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: incredible human beings. Um. But several of us, especially people 203 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: like Tom Jose myself who had been talking for years 204 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: about raising a hundred thousand dollars at the gala to 205 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,839 Speaker 1: dump that money into a bucket with two hundred thousand 206 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: dollar holes at the bottom of it, wasn't doing anything 207 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 1: to advance the causes that were so near and dear 208 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,439 Speaker 1: to us. UH. Tom had started a Food Policy Action 209 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: Committee a few years beforehand, and for him, politics was 210 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 1: a love language. Jose Andres had founded World Central Kitchen 211 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: a few years before UH, and for him, UH, it 212 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: was feeding a hungry planet, especially those in crisis, was 213 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: his love language. UM I was about educating human beings 214 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 1: and and telling stories and changing hearts and minds with 215 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: that storytelling. With the politics kicker on the end of it, 216 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: and you know, with along with all the other folks 217 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 1: who were involved U with us, we knew that we 218 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: had to get federal funding for restaurants and we need 219 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: to start working on it right away. So the i 220 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: r C was founded with a very very simple premise 221 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: protect independent restaurants UH and do so by making sure 222 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: that we were getting laws passed on Capitol Hill. So 223 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: first UH we worked to get the p p P. 224 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: Then we worked to change the p p P. Thanks 225 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 1: to UH Republican Chip Roy of Texas and Democrat Dean 226 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: Phillips of Minnesota who pushed the p p P change legislation. 227 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: It fixed a Swiss horrible piece of legislation, actually made 228 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: it work for some people. And then we went to 229 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: work with UH Senators uh wicker And and Cinema and 230 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 1: Earl Blueman, our Congressman of Oregon, and UH they drafted 231 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: Earl drafted the Restaurant Relief Act Restaurants Act, excuse me, 232 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: and the Restaurants Act. We had done a lot of 233 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 1: work and invested tons of money on a lot of 234 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: economic studies to see exactly how much money was needed. 235 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 1: We came up with a figure of a hundred and 236 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: twenty billion the OMB, a whole bunch of other independent 237 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: studies I think Mackenzie had done one as well, a 238 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: bunch of other big accounting firms had done them. Everyone 239 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: came up with roughly the same number. Cost a hundred 240 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: twenty billion dollars to save restaurants. But that would be 241 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: worthwhile because you know, independent restaurants would lose a quarter 242 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: of a trillion dollars just through the last three quarters 243 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: of that year. UM. So it seemed like the easiest 244 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: thing to do. Let's let's get those restaurants back stopped, 245 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: UM so that we would have those restaurants to return 246 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: to whenever UH this thing ended and restaurants could fully open. 247 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: That never happened until finally, with some last minute wrangling 248 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: and thanks to some incredible work from some of our 249 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: members UH Centator Schumer included or got included twenty five 250 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: point nine billion dollars into the Restaurant Relief Fund administered 251 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: by the s b A in the America Cares Act, 252 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: which was the big tranche that the Biden administration passed 253 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: UH earlier this year. Now, the s b A opened 254 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: and it took applications for UH for these forgivable loans 255 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: and grants, and they took on eight billion dollars, rounding 256 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 1: up from seventy nine points something eighty billion dollars in applications. 257 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: They only had twenty five point nine billion to give out. UH. 258 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: So there is a substantial number of people who have 259 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: applied for this, deserving of it been approved, who were 260 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: sitting here waiting for money. So the I r C 261 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 1: is desperately trying to get that Restaurant Relief Fund refilled. 262 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 1: It is of vital importance. If we don't, we're going 263 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: to have an economic tragedy of what I fear will 264 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 1: be biblical proportions, and here's why, and then we'll get 265 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 1: to the cost of doing business with the employees. The 266 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: independent restaurants, when you pull them on together, pull them 267 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: all together, are the second largest business in America behind 268 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 1: only behind the US government. UH. It is a trillion 269 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: and a half dollar industry, represents about five and a 270 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: half percent of g d P. But it only keep 271 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: seven percent of the money that flows through it. And 272 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: of that seven percent, well over half of it is 273 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: put back into the business buying broken glass, replacing broken glasses, 274 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: broken dishwashers, stuff like that. So it is an incredible 275 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: vital piece of turnaround money economics. UH. And restaurant taxes 276 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: also go to give municipalities to buy books for schools 277 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,879 Speaker 1: and paint lines on roads and put new lights on 278 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: main Street and all that other stuff. Restaurants are also 279 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: vital to the tourism industry. They're vital to the cultural 280 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: identity of main street America. UH And most importantly, because 281 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 1: I believe that that everything is about people. When you 282 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: look at the people that are employed in restaurants, where 283 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: the number one employer of single moms, number one employer 284 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 1: of single dads, number one employer of returning citizens, those 285 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: coming back from jails and institutions, number one UH first 286 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: time UH job provider and now most recently the number 287 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 1: one last job provider. UM. It is a depending on 288 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: whose stats you look at, the number one or number 289 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,360 Speaker 1: two for immigrants and new arrivals to this country. So 290 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: you can see this is a very very special population. 291 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: They're not gonna go leave a restaurant and the next 292 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: week go to work at Ernst and Young. It's just 293 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 1: not how it happens. It is a vital population that 294 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 1: needs these jobs. The if you look at the supply chain, 295 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: all the food and the goods and the booze and 296 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:39,919 Speaker 1: everything else that goes into a restaurant. Uh, the impact 297 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: on our economy isn't limited just to that trillion and 298 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,439 Speaker 1: a half dollars and that five percent of g d P. 299 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: It multiplies by three or four times. Quick little fact, 300 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: just to to justify my point making UM, seventy five 301 00:19:55,840 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 1: cent of fish and seafood harvest did in America in 302 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,919 Speaker 1: all our coasts, by all of our fishing industries is 303 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 1: sold in restaurants. Right, That's where the majority of people 304 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,920 Speaker 1: eat their seafood. So just the impact on the American 305 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 1: seafood industry. You're taking away eight When when restaurants were closed, uh, 306 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: you know, four or five months into COVID, UH, the 307 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: American fishing industry literally came to a halt. Just to 308 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,239 Speaker 1: give you an idea, that's where you saw it. By 309 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: the way, those tragic pictures on the cover of the 310 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 1: New York Times of the zucchini farm in a Maacoli, Florida, 311 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: or the lettuce uh farm in the Salinas Valley literally 312 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: tilling under the fruit and vegetables as far as the 313 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: eye could see because there's no one, no one to 314 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: pick it, and no place to sell it into, and 315 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: no one to ship it truck it right. It's is 316 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:52,680 Speaker 1: an incredible, incredible impact on our nation's economy. And when 317 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: restaurants closed, So when restaurants reopened more vigorously a couple 318 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: of months ago, and some were getting federal bunnies and 319 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: some had been able to finatal things with p p P, 320 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: the vast majority had taken on a ton of debt, 321 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,239 Speaker 1: everything from people who in a little pizza parlor who 322 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:13,640 Speaker 1: had maxed out their credit cards to UH savvy restaurateurs 323 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: who've been able with their track record to get loans 324 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,640 Speaker 1: from banks. Everyone took on a staggering amount of debt, 325 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:22,399 Speaker 1: gambling that they were either going to get relief from 326 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 1: the government in form of the restaurant refund being top 327 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:30,000 Speaker 1: back golf, or they were going to be able to 328 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 1: open fully. Now you have to remember even those restaurants 329 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: that were open fully, and I walked by some in 330 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: my hometown and was like, Wow, they're doing great business. 331 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,159 Speaker 1: But I also knew that they had taken on a 332 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: year and a half of debt and they missed a 333 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 1: year and a half of profit, and to make that 334 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 1: up would take five or six years of being full 335 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 1: all the time just to get back to zero, just 336 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: get back to where they were at the end of 337 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 1: beginning of One of the things is that UH folks 338 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 1: never saw coming with COVID UH was the the human 339 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:15,840 Speaker 1: capacity for enduring pain and misery and coming up with 340 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: a better solution for their own lives. And I believe 341 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: that and the low pay and some of the toxic 342 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:29,440 Speaker 1: UH issues surrounding the restaurant business are the two biggest 343 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: reasons that we are struggling to find people to work 344 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: in restaurants. UM. So many people who were servers, bussers, 345 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 1: hosts and hostess bar backs, uh line cooks, dishwashers, simply 346 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 1: found a different way to make a living. And as 347 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:52,400 Speaker 1: things went on during COVID, they realized, wow, this is 348 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: this is pretty good for my lifestyle, or or I've 349 00:22:55,600 --> 00:23:00,080 Speaker 1: changed what I'm doing. Um, I've found another way to 350 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 1: supplement my life. Remember a lot of people in the 351 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: restaurant industry are lifers. They're they're devoted to restaurants. They're 352 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,439 Speaker 1: always gonna work in restaurants. They love restaurants. But the 353 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: vast majority of them are actually they're temporarily their college 354 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 1: students moving on to something else. They're actors in New York, 355 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: their musicians in Nashville, right, Um, they're doing something else 356 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: in transitioning. So people found a better and different way. 357 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: And I believe very very strongly that a lot of 358 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:34,880 Speaker 1: people were working in restaurants that we were unbalanced, where 359 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: there was no vacation pay, there was no health benefits, 360 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: there was no types of insurance there there there wasn't 361 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,360 Speaker 1: a professionalized atmosphere within the restaurants they were working in, 362 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: and they felt that those issues were toxic to their 363 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: returning that decided to make a career switch. I have 364 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 1: seen now. I was just on a two weeks ago, 365 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 1: was on an interview and with Tom Collegio. And the 366 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: reason I bring him up is that extremely famous chef 367 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,600 Speaker 1: with you know, a half dozen restaurants around the country, uh, 368 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 1: maybe more um and someone who very much uh is 369 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: at the the tip of the iceberg when it comes 370 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 1: to fame and and also skill set, an incredible chef, 371 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 1: incredibly talented. Right before we went on, he was telling 372 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: me that, UM, he was only open I think at 373 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: that point Wednesday through Sunday. Uh. And the reason was is, uh, 374 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,679 Speaker 1: he couldn't find enough staff. And there were some people 375 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 1: in this position who actually found that their restaurant in 376 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: their own lifestyle function better than being open seven days. 377 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 1: They were willing to do less money and keep a 378 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 1: little bit themselves and find it easier to manage. I 379 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: know of a lot of local restaurants here in the 380 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: Twin Cities, obviously, and I speak to more restaurant owners 381 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:00,679 Speaker 1: here in the Twin Cities on a regular basis that 382 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 1: I do anywhere else. But we're a big modern metro uh. 383 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: And by the way, in summertime where people can sit outside, 384 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: they're all off there. Only there some are open limited hours. 385 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 1: They've limited their menus so that they could shrink the 386 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: number of people on their staff. It is a huge, 387 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 1: uh crisis. The employment crisis and restaurants is very real. UM, 388 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 1: I do happen to believe, uh, like uh some other 389 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 1: people in my industry, UM that a level setting of 390 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,520 Speaker 1: hourly and salary employees, a level setting of the tipping mechanisms, 391 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 1: a level set, level setting of guests charges. In other words, 392 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 1: letting everybody in the restaurant profit equally from this success 393 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 1: is of vital, vital, vital importance. Okay, Denny made that. 394 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 1: You know, we included the service me then after COVID 395 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: got eliminated. Uh, I know him, but very you know 396 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: a fraction. Have you spoke with him in terms of 397 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:11,479 Speaker 1: how that worked before the COVID? Was it working for him? Yeah, well, Danny, 398 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: I've I've known Danny for twenty five years and I 399 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: consider him a good friend and uh we do speak 400 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,160 Speaker 1: and uh he is someone who I consider to be 401 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 1: uh one of the brightest, uh smartest business people and 402 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 1: human beings I've ever met in the restaurant business or elsewhere. 403 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: He also is one of the folks. If he's not 404 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 1: the leading light. He's one of the two or three 405 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 1: leading lights in our industry. Everyone looks at what Danny 406 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: does in his businesses um uh and his book Setting 407 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,919 Speaker 1: the Table is probably the only mandatory piece of reading 408 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,680 Speaker 1: and the restaurant business that I reckon. When everyone says, 409 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: what's the one thing I should read, I said, you 410 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,080 Speaker 1: read Setting the Table by Danny Meyer. It's the It's 411 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: the best book about restaurants and hospital so much so 412 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:05,120 Speaker 1: that there you know our business leaders who who make 413 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: it mandatory reading for their C suite people, they're not 414 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: even in the food business. It's a it's a really 415 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 1: brilliant book I recommended for everyone. Danny several years ago, 416 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: pre covid H, decided to experiment with service charges and 417 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 1: doing away with tipping. He was, like many other things, 418 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,159 Speaker 1: way ahead of his time, too much, too soon, and 419 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,920 Speaker 1: without other people doing it in the industry, was very, 420 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: very confusing to consumers. So Danny went back to tips. Uh. 421 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 1: The other issue that restaurants have charged. I'm being completely 422 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: transparent here is someone who is a partner in several 423 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: restaurant groups and invest in restaurants himself and talks to 424 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,160 Speaker 1: a lot of restaurant owners. People had talked about doing 425 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 1: this pre COVID again, because it is very crucial. Restaurants 426 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,240 Speaker 1: have not been able to charge what food really costs 427 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 1: on a plate for many, any many decades. They've been 428 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: artificially deflating their prod uh, the their what they charged 429 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 1: their prices on their menu and trying to make it 430 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: up at the bar. You've probably heard this colloquially at 431 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,080 Speaker 1: dinner parties a lot for anyone who's invest in restaurant. Well, 432 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,200 Speaker 1: we're gonna do at the bar. We're gonna do fifty 433 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: percent of revenue from our bar. We're gonna make a 434 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:23,639 Speaker 1: bar that happens to serve food and every other version 435 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: of that and in every because your profit margins are 436 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 1: higher and there's less waste than all the rest of 437 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, and you need fewer people to 438 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:36,400 Speaker 1: serve liquor than you do to serve food. Uh. But fascinatingly, um, 439 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: right before COVID, a lot of restaurateurs were calling me 440 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: to explore the idea of what it would take to 441 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 1: go with a service charge, And in talking to them, 442 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: the one thing they all had in common was they 443 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: all believe they would lose a lot of employees, they 444 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,479 Speaker 1: would have to go to restricted hours for a couple 445 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: of weeks or a month as they onboarded new employees. 446 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,240 Speaker 1: Right as you in board those new employees who have 447 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: different expectations of dollars, you can then retrain your staff. 448 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: That's a huge expense for a restaurant. One of the 449 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: biggest expenses restaurants have, uh independent restaurants is that is 450 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: the dollars takes to train and on board a new employee, 451 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: and the the old employees would leave because a server 452 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: that was making a good night is now gonna make 453 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: twenty five and a good night and he's gonna be 454 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: sharing money with other people and taking less for himself. 455 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: So those people tend to leave and go to another 456 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,800 Speaker 1: restaurant that isn't implementing service charges. So a lot of 457 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: people shied away from it. COVID put everyone in the 458 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: same boat. And so now that we're out of COVID, 459 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: I would say the majority of restaurants that I've been 460 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: in in the last five six months, uh and that's 461 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: uh four months that I've been dining out. Uh. The 462 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: I would say the restaurants that I go to all 463 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: have a service charge on them. We just in Minnesota 464 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: today one of our the Twin cities most beloved newcomers. 465 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: A and by the way, this place that serves hamburgers 466 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: uh and ice cream and French fries. That's not a 467 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 1: fancy restaurant UH called baby Zito's, just beloved by Minnesota's 468 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: hot new place. Everyone loves it. Have you had their burger? 469 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: Have you had their ice cream? Run by incredible young people, 470 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: really impassion just announced that they're going to a service 471 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 1: charge of eighteen percent so that they can share the 472 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 1: money with all of their employees and and actually get 473 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: the economics of their own business right. And you're seeing 474 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: this more and more and more. And the reason is, 475 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,960 Speaker 1: we have to pay our employees better. We have to 476 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: offer them paid sick leave, we have to offer them 477 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: some form of insurance that they earn into. We have 478 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: to professionalize and get those dollars up for these employees 479 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,959 Speaker 1: because so many of them have been kicked in the 480 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: butt by artificially depressed wages. And the reason that restaurants 481 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: can't pay the same dollars that other businesses do is 482 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 1: because they haven't been able to charge what that plate 483 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 1: of chicken really costs on the plate. For decades and 484 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: decades because no one, because the American consumer, and I'm 485 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: sure you've heard this before from from other thought leaders, 486 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:27,640 Speaker 1: is hooked on cheap fast food. And I don't just mean, uh, 487 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: you know, the McDonald's of the world. You know, Americans 488 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: believe that, you know, a red piece of red meat 489 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:37,240 Speaker 1: that's eight to twelve ounces should only cost them X 490 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: number of dollars and come with the giant baked potato 491 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: and a salad bar. And they're not factoring in what 492 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: that food really cost to get to the table, what 493 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: it costs to be planted, picked, trucked, prepped, stored, cooked 494 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: and served and cleaned up after that plate of food. 495 00:31:55,920 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 1: Dining in restaurants is a more expensive proposition. As we 496 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: want this huge moment in American history where food is 497 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: the new rock right where we've we've never had. There's 498 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 1: no culture in America, no culture in the world that 499 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: has had a more romantic relationship ever with food that 500 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: America has in the last ten, twelve, fifteen years. But 501 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: we're not willing to pay for it. And now the 502 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: swallows have returned to Capistrano, and in the spirit of 503 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 1: tortured metaphors everywhere, it's time to pay the piper. Okay, 504 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:34,400 Speaker 1: you mentioned all these household names. Certainly two people paying attention, uh, 505 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 1: you know, Tom Collickio Jose Andres. I gotta ask you 506 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: some of these people, certainly Bobby Flay seems to be 507 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 1: on food television seven. To what degree is their camaraderie 508 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:51,280 Speaker 1: and to what degree is their competition both? I think 509 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: it's like any other business. You know, food people are 510 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: the best people in the whole world. I really truly 511 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: believe that I'd rather be with food people than any 512 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: other human beings on planet Earth. If I'm with uh, 513 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: food people who are recovering addicts and alcoholics as well, 514 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: that to me is the the apex of human being. 515 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 1: But I have a lot of personal bias there. Um. 516 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 1: You know, there is a ton of mutual respect to 517 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: some people not like each other. Of course, it's just 518 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: like anywhere else. Um, But there's a ton of respect 519 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: because you have to work really hard, uh to get 520 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,480 Speaker 1: to a place of achievement uh in the food world, 521 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 1: and it's even harder to stay there. I think people 522 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 1: unfairly criticized people like Bobby Flay. I'll just use him 523 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: as as an example. I've heard things from friends of 524 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: mine like, well, he can't really be a good cookies 525 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:46,719 Speaker 1: on TV. He's actually one of the most phenomenal chefs cooks. 526 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 1: When he actually touches food, he's he's an incredible, incredible craftsperson. 527 00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 1: Same thing with Tom Callikio. There's a whole generation of 528 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: people who only think of Callikio as someone who turns 529 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: to Podma when she's ready to tell folks to pack 530 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,160 Speaker 1: their knives and go home. It's one of the greatest 531 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 1: chefs of his generation. Um. These are people who I 532 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,279 Speaker 1: believe thirty years from now will still be talked about 533 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 1: for their cuisine at the same time that camaraderie. Uh. 534 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,719 Speaker 1: You know, there's only so many TV stations they're willing 535 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 1: to put people on. There's only so many customers, there's 536 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 1: only so many fannies to go in so many seats. 537 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 1: There's only so many hotels that will give a chef 538 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,439 Speaker 1: a deal and take their one or two units and 539 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,359 Speaker 1: turn it into ten. Um. So obviously there's a lot 540 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 1: of healthy competition. UM. I don't think there's any competition 541 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:44,799 Speaker 1: for people like Jose andres Uh. Josiandre's is uh to 542 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 1: me uh in rarefied air. Um. Not only is he 543 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 1: one of the handful I'm talking about Top thirty forty 544 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 1: best chefs in the world, Top fifty for sure. I 545 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,839 Speaker 1: don't get an argument from from anyone. His skill set 546 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,319 Speaker 1: is legendary. Um, we're talking three star Michelin. But can 547 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: also put together a sandwich on his vegetarian food truck 548 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:11,280 Speaker 1: Tomato as well as anyone. Um. But he's also created 549 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:16,840 Speaker 1: a a a global UH network for help with his 550 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 1: nonprofit World Central Kitchen. That I mean he was. He 551 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,839 Speaker 1: was one of the three finalists for a Nobel Peace 552 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: Prize this year. For gosh sakes, first time a chef 553 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 1: has ever been a finalist for a Nobel Peace Prize. 554 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: And I hope people understand because of the unique aspects 555 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:37,279 Speaker 1: and talent sets that this community of culinarians has. It's 556 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,400 Speaker 1: why I really want to see UH, someone with a 557 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: food background become our first foods are And I really 558 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: hope before his time as president ends, whether that's one 559 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:53,760 Speaker 1: or two terms, UH, that our current president UH adds 560 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,000 Speaker 1: a cabinet level position UH to deal with food in 561 00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:01,760 Speaker 1: America because it is that big an issue. It touches everything. 562 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 1: You know, we're in a state of permanent climate emergency. 563 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,880 Speaker 1: We're in a permanent state of hunger and waste emergency 564 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: in this country, all related to food. The immigration issues 565 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 1: in America, the largest number of illegal immigrants work in 566 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 1: the food business, and and the legal migrants come in 567 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: on visa programs that are managed by a group that 568 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: doesn't understand food. And so consequently, I believe that all 569 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,359 Speaker 1: those things, lumped together, as well as a dozen other 570 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:33,360 Speaker 1: issues we can talk about, make it a requirement that 571 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:39,920 Speaker 1: we established a cabinet level secretary position around food. Okay, 572 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 1: that foods are you talk about all these issues of production, 573 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 1: et cetera. How about something that's been bandied about a 574 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 1: lot in terms of consumption. You're old enough to remember 575 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 1: in the Reagan era when it's school lunches, catch up 576 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,720 Speaker 1: was considered a vegetable. So the issue of what people 577 00:36:56,719 --> 00:37:00,760 Speaker 1: are consuming, these big multinationals, they literally we have people 578 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: creating what is commonly referred to as junk food to 579 00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:08,239 Speaker 1: be addictive. Okay, so on some level you can't even 580 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:12,800 Speaker 1: blame the consumer. Can this be turned around? Can of 581 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:17,319 Speaker 1: foods are do something? Or is it's just too late? No, 582 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 1: it's not well for the for a national school lunch program, 583 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,400 Speaker 1: it's not too late. In fact, we're seeing it. I 584 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: think we're up to uh fourteen states now that have 585 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 1: taken it upon themselves to pass legislation UH requiring all 586 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 1: schools to provide food free of charge to students. And 587 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,880 Speaker 1: that's the first step. What I'm insisting on is a 588 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: two step process. I would like food two or three 589 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 1: meals a day uh to be because it's the place 590 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:55,520 Speaker 1: to feed kids. Well, let's let's back up one second. 591 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,319 Speaker 1: We have a hunger crisis in America. We had it 592 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 1: beaten down to of human beings that were food insecure, 593 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,719 Speaker 1: which I think is a bullshit piece of terminology. I 594 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:12,120 Speaker 1: think it's too areadite. It's called hunger of Americans were hungry, 595 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,440 Speaker 1: they didn't know where their next day's meals were coming from. 596 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 1: COVID dropped another fifty of human beings below the poverty line, 597 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,360 Speaker 1: So now many of those are hungry. I believe we're backup. 598 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 1: Statistics say twenty uh to I think realistically the number 599 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:33,399 Speaker 1: is more like thirty uh. But even those that are 600 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:37,360 Speaker 1: eating are not eating well. To your point, they're buying 601 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,440 Speaker 1: their food at dollar general stores. We profiled all these 602 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,640 Speaker 1: stories in my MSNBC show What's eating America. I could 603 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: cite you chapter and verse on the explosion of these 604 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,719 Speaker 1: dollar general stores that do not sell fresh fruit, fresh vegetables, 605 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 1: produced fruit, meats, etcetera. Uh, they sell process food. It's 606 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,840 Speaker 1: it's like a a cheap dollar store version of the 607 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 1: center of the super market is supposed the perimeter where 608 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:06,280 Speaker 1: all the fresh food is for kids. I think it's 609 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 1: it's I mean, look, hungry children in America are no 610 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,839 Speaker 1: longer a national embarrassment or a shameful piece of our 611 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:18,080 Speaker 1: current situation. I believe it's a criminal situation. Hungry children 612 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:23,440 Speaker 1: in the richest, most successful country in the history of civilization, 613 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,720 Speaker 1: to me, is a criminal act. To keep children hungry 614 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 1: as a criminal act. The solutions are widely available. We 615 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 1: have the skill in this country to fix the problem. 616 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:37,120 Speaker 1: We do not have the political will currently to fix 617 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 1: this problem. And this is not red or blue, or 618 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 1: left or right. This has been an issue like the 619 00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:46,239 Speaker 1: immigration reform that is so desperately needed, that has been 620 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 1: kicked down the road. Uh, you know, like an old 621 00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,600 Speaker 1: tin can for thirty five or forty years, going back 622 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,600 Speaker 1: as you so, you know the reaganeer, a ketchup is 623 00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,280 Speaker 1: a vegetable, right, so what do we have to do. 624 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 1: We have to makes school lunch free for everyone. We 625 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,400 Speaker 1: have to start cooking again in schools. You and I 626 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,200 Speaker 1: are of the same generation. When I was young and 627 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 1: was in school, there were lunch ladies and they actually 628 00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,440 Speaker 1: had tilt skillets and giants saw tape, and they actually 629 00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:17,680 Speaker 1: made food, uh and it and and it came from 630 00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 1: There were boxes with heads of lettuce that were cut 631 00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:23,640 Speaker 1: up that went into a salad bar. And you know 632 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: that that Salsbury steak sometimes tasted like a hockey puck, 633 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,880 Speaker 1: but it was made with fresh meat and real ingredients 634 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:36,200 Speaker 1: and what we call whole foods. Right, they weren't empty calories. Now, 635 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:40,359 Speaker 1: even in public schools that are offering free lunch, so 636 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,719 Speaker 1: much of the food that's being uh served there are 637 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:48,239 Speaker 1: empty calories. And because the laws in this country say 638 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,520 Speaker 1: that kids have to have a certain number of calories, 639 00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,640 Speaker 1: the easiest way to make the number up if you're 640 00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:58,560 Speaker 1: putting healthy food, fruits, vegetable salads, lean meats on a tray. 641 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 1: The way that these schools get around so laws is 642 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,440 Speaker 1: stick a caramel roll onto the corner of the tray 643 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,759 Speaker 1: and you've you've got your caloric intake number. We're poisoning 644 00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:14,440 Speaker 1: our children. Kids who don't eat well in school are tired, 645 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:19,759 Speaker 1: they don't get good grades, their outcomes are are less successful. 646 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,279 Speaker 1: This is statistics that I mean. You know, it's very 647 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 1: easy to access from the biggest and most reliable UH 648 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 1: institutions in the country. The pew UH Foundation does incredible 649 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:34,400 Speaker 1: research UH in this regard um it is. It is horrific. 650 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:38,839 Speaker 1: And I will add this to that. Anywhere I've I've 651 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,760 Speaker 1: been screaming this from the mountaintop for twenty years. Any 652 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:45,960 Speaker 1: place that the public dollar intersects with food, we are 653 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,880 Speaker 1: under serving the people that need the hug that good 654 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:58,480 Speaker 1: food h gives. Public hospitals, public senior centers, public schools, 655 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:04,160 Speaker 1: UH jails, institutions. These people need good, healthy food to 656 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:10,279 Speaker 1: help them recover, live respectfully, get better outcomes in the 657 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:14,880 Speaker 1: cases of kids, lower recidivism rates, the cases of people 658 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:19,080 Speaker 1: who are incarcerated. The warm hug that food gives. That's 659 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,560 Speaker 1: talked about in the center fold of those food magazines 660 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,000 Speaker 1: where there's like that ten million dollar house in Nantucket 661 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,319 Speaker 1: and all the wonderful red, white and blue pley, the 662 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,400 Speaker 1: golden retriever, you know, roving around and piles of lobster 663 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,399 Speaker 1: and clams. That's a fantasy. That is for the one 664 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:39,319 Speaker 1: tenth of the one percent we have of the population 665 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,920 Speaker 1: in this country that need the hug and the nutrition 666 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,719 Speaker 1: that good food gets, and we we have the ability 667 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,360 Speaker 1: to give it to them. We just don't have the 668 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,960 Speaker 1: political will right now to make that a reality. And 669 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,200 Speaker 1: that's why I'm working so hard to make that a 670 00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:58,440 Speaker 1: reality by trying to talk to politicians, tell these stories, 671 00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:02,040 Speaker 1: you know, my MSNBC series What's Eating America out there 672 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,040 Speaker 1: and talking about this on shows like yours, because it's 673 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,960 Speaker 1: vitally important for people to understand that, you know, as 674 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,760 Speaker 1: the late great center of Paul Wellstone, my political mentor 675 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,600 Speaker 1: here in Minnesota, used to say, we all win when 676 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,480 Speaker 1: we all win, and if we want, if we want 677 00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,319 Speaker 1: to fulfill the promise of this great nation, we have 678 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,399 Speaker 1: to start feeding people properly. We just have to to 679 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:27,279 Speaker 1: not do so is is criminal dereliction. Okay, But one 680 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:31,719 Speaker 1: thing we know is it's expensive to eat healthy. So 681 00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,080 Speaker 1: it's easy. It's cheaper to eat at rallies than to 682 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,759 Speaker 1: make a fresh meal at home. And in an addition, 683 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,600 Speaker 1: if you it takes time. Okay, In addition, if you're 684 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,799 Speaker 1: Oprah and you have a private chef, it's amazing what 685 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,680 Speaker 1: they can make taste good, but we also know their 686 00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:53,400 Speaker 1: costs involved. Is there any way to make healthy food 687 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:59,040 Speaker 1: more economically available to people who are challenged financially? Of 688 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,839 Speaker 1: course there is, and there's tremendous their tremendous programs out 689 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:06,239 Speaker 1: there in the school lunch front. Uh, you know, challenged 690 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,960 Speaker 1: with that same problem. Hey, there's no way for a 691 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:12,880 Speaker 1: dollar seventy nine a meal, you know, or whatever it 692 00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:14,920 Speaker 1: is that the public schools at Can you make a healthy, 693 00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:19,200 Speaker 1: nutritious meal for kids that they'll eat well. Chef Dan Jiusti, 694 00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,719 Speaker 1: who was the Chef de cuisine at Noma when it 695 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,520 Speaker 1: was America the world's number one restaurant, started a group 696 00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,840 Speaker 1: called Brigade B R I G A I d UH 697 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:35,040 Speaker 1: in the UH Northeast. He's based, I believe, out of Connecticut, 698 00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:38,720 Speaker 1: UM and his company is now working with public schools 699 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,000 Speaker 1: I think in three or four states and has proved 700 00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:46,040 Speaker 1: that you can by buying smart and preparing fresh, uh, 701 00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,160 Speaker 1: you can do it and still meet the economic requirements. 702 00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:53,160 Speaker 1: It does require extra investment from the government, but what 703 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,520 Speaker 1: better use of our funds? And I don't want to 704 00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,759 Speaker 1: use the old cliche, uh, you know, let's have more 705 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:02,320 Speaker 1: bake sales and fewer aircraft carriers. But that cliche was 706 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,719 Speaker 1: true for a reason. I think we do overspend in 707 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,440 Speaker 1: a lot of areas that we don't need to overspend in. 708 00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,759 Speaker 1: Where just a few hundred billion dollars a year, and 709 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:13,560 Speaker 1: I know that's a big amount of money, but when 710 00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:15,319 Speaker 1: you compare it to some of the costs of things 711 00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:18,120 Speaker 1: we're wasting so much money on, becomes a drop in 712 00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:21,319 Speaker 1: the bucket. And I also will say this, Bob, that 713 00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,920 Speaker 1: we have skewed the food system in this country to 714 00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:33,000 Speaker 1: reward the farm to freighter agricultural community. Giant agribusinesses that 715 00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,640 Speaker 1: grow seed corn and soybeans and cotton and all the 716 00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,080 Speaker 1: rest of that are the ones that get what are 717 00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:44,120 Speaker 1: now insurance incentitives, incentives that are also called subsidies. Right. 718 00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,240 Speaker 1: It's it's just transferred over into crop insurance and stuff. 719 00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,160 Speaker 1: They're able to farm ten thousand acres with just five 720 00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,760 Speaker 1: to ten employees because they're driving these giant behemoth machines 721 00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:58,360 Speaker 1: that plant and picked the food food fit for human consumption. 722 00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,040 Speaker 1: All of it has been legally labeled. This is why 723 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:04,640 Speaker 1: we needed. Foods are has been legally labeled a specialty 724 00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,640 Speaker 1: crop so they can't get crop insurance right. And yes, 725 00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:10,360 Speaker 1: in a sense it is especially great. It has to 726 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,759 Speaker 1: be picked by You can't a machine can't pick a 727 00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,480 Speaker 1: tomato or a great has to be picked by hand. 728 00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,120 Speaker 1: Let us has to be picked by hand. Payers have 729 00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:21,120 Speaker 1: to be picked by hand. But if we could invest 730 00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:25,720 Speaker 1: in food, what better thing to invest in then feeding Americans. 731 00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,000 Speaker 1: It is the to me, it is a no brainer. 732 00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,319 Speaker 1: That's where we should be investing. And if we invested 733 00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:37,279 Speaker 1: federal moneys and subsidized farmers who were raising food for 734 00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:40,560 Speaker 1: human consumption to the same degree that we're allowing insurance 735 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,840 Speaker 1: subsidies for these farms to freighter economy farmers, uh, the 736 00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:48,399 Speaker 1: system would literally self correct all by itself. If we 737 00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,440 Speaker 1: invest in real nutritious food. We've just done the opposite. 738 00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:54,840 Speaker 1: You know, we all know we've heard that that point. 739 00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,080 Speaker 1: It's true. Seventy of the food in America is produced 740 00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:02,640 Speaker 1: by the same seven companies. We're destroying our biospheres with 741 00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:05,719 Speaker 1: these giant agri businesses. All of the runoff from those 742 00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:09,960 Speaker 1: farms and those chicken uh, giant chicken farms and feed 743 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:14,120 Speaker 1: lots where the cows are standing in their own filth 744 00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:17,400 Speaker 1: goes into our water system. We never had algae blooms 745 00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:21,320 Speaker 1: to the degree that we do now. Uh, stifling algae 746 00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:27,880 Speaker 1: blooms that kill off huge swaths of our coastal fishing zone. UM. 747 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:31,360 Speaker 1: Until we started interesting these chemicals into the waters. We 748 00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:34,719 Speaker 1: can literally trace them from the Gulf into farms in 749 00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:38,120 Speaker 1: the giant agri businesses in the Midwest. Because all of 750 00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:41,160 Speaker 1: that filth is going into the rivers like the Mississippi 751 00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:44,080 Speaker 1: and dumping into the Gulf. We need someone with common 752 00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:47,320 Speaker 1: sense ruling the roost. Here. Foods are for the wind. 753 00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:57,960 Speaker 1: From time immemorial, there's been the image of the tyrant, 754 00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:02,400 Speaker 1: abusive chef. All of a sudden seen comes along. We 755 00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:06,239 Speaker 1: have the me too era Mario Batali, let's use the 756 00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:10,200 Speaker 1: word was outed. What is really going on? And will 757 00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:14,120 Speaker 1: progress be made? Has progress been made? An amazing amount 758 00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:16,439 Speaker 1: of progress has been made, and it requires a lot 759 00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:19,760 Speaker 1: more progress. That toxic environment that I talked about before, 760 00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,320 Speaker 1: the part that relates to this question is often referred 761 00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:28,799 Speaker 1: to as toxic masculinity and restaurants. UM. You know, the 762 00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,359 Speaker 1: the majority of chefs in America for generations have been 763 00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:38,120 Speaker 1: uh you know, old white men, and they have been 764 00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:46,239 Speaker 1: allowed uh societally, culturally, uh to create environments that are 765 00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:51,839 Speaker 1: uh unfair, uh in many ways, illegal in many ways, 766 00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:56,280 Speaker 1: and toxic in many ways. UM. Let's start with pay structure. 767 00:48:56,680 --> 00:49:00,880 Speaker 1: It's it's ridiculous that the you know, a active man 768 00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:03,480 Speaker 1: or woman at twenty something up at the front of 769 00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:05,279 Speaker 1: the host and makes thirty dollars an hour and a 770 00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:09,040 Speaker 1: dish dishwasher makes eight nine or ten and worse, eight 771 00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:14,000 Speaker 1: nine or ten under the table with no benefits. UM, 772 00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:19,160 Speaker 1: that's ridiculous the amount of uh. And this is something 773 00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,040 Speaker 1: that has been a problem in our industry for a 774 00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,520 Speaker 1: long time, and I think it's unfair when people say that, 775 00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:27,080 Speaker 1: uh it's no longer a problem. It's a problem. Alcohol, 776 00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:31,160 Speaker 1: drugs and mental health issues in the restaurant community is 777 00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:34,640 Speaker 1: at a number that is, depending on who study you 778 00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:39,080 Speaker 1: look at, uh six seven percent higher than it is 779 00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:43,279 Speaker 1: in the in the rest of our population. UM. I'm 780 00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:45,960 Speaker 1: working with an organization out of Atlanta called the Giving 781 00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:51,839 Speaker 1: Kitchen UH working on their alcoholism and addiction programs as 782 00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:56,120 Speaker 1: they roll out these programs into other states to try 783 00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,760 Speaker 1: to help people because the restaurants have done a really 784 00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:02,799 Speaker 1: lousy job of doing it. If you work at you know, uh, 785 00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:06,760 Speaker 1: the company down the road and you're having mental health issues, 786 00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,680 Speaker 1: rugger alcoholism problems, you can actually get your company to 787 00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:14,160 Speaker 1: help you with the HR department will help you access treatment, etcetera. 788 00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:16,840 Speaker 1: It's one of those places that restaurants, despite being a 789 00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:20,799 Speaker 1: trillion and a half dollar industry, are hundreds of thousands, 790 00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:25,600 Speaker 1: six hundred seventy, six hundred and eighty thousand, to be exact, uh, independent, 791 00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:28,840 Speaker 1: little micro businesses, some of them very small, couple hundred 792 00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:30,799 Speaker 1: grand a year little mom and pop Delhi on a 793 00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:33,680 Speaker 1: tiny little town on Main Street, or that twenty million 794 00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:35,839 Speaker 1: dollar a year restaurants in New York City or Los 795 00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:38,320 Speaker 1: Angeles that everyone is dying to get into, and everything 796 00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:43,200 Speaker 1: in between. We need to service our employees better, We 797 00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:46,319 Speaker 1: need to take better care of them, and we need 798 00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:54,360 Speaker 1: to understand that the byproducts of decades of decades and decades, 799 00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,359 Speaker 1: and in this country four hundred and two years of 800 00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:03,480 Speaker 1: white privilege has created toxic levels of intolerance in many 801 00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:09,239 Speaker 1: businesses all across America, and restaurants are no exception to 802 00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:14,000 Speaker 1: this rule. Um, but restaurants can fix themselves faster than 803 00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:19,120 Speaker 1: big corporations, and what we've seen is incredible leaders uh 804 00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:21,800 Speaker 1: in all states. I mean I could start naming names 805 00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:24,640 Speaker 1: and and never stop. We don't have time to list them. 806 00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,960 Speaker 1: All of people who have created open source playbooks for 807 00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:33,120 Speaker 1: retraining employees, for managing restaurants, for instituting profit sharing and 808 00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:37,920 Speaker 1: coop based revenue systems, who have figured out ways to 809 00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:42,120 Speaker 1: to pay people better than a living wage, uh, so 810 00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:44,520 Speaker 1: that people don't have to have two or three jobs 811 00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:47,360 Speaker 1: to uh, you know, put a roof over their family's 812 00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,680 Speaker 1: head and feed them uh and pay for the basic necessities. 813 00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:54,760 Speaker 1: And still doing it in the restaurant industry, I think 814 00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:57,800 Speaker 1: one of the silver linings. And I hate talking about 815 00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:01,000 Speaker 1: this topic. I almost feel guilty, and I know I'm 816 00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:04,640 Speaker 1: gonna get a lot of letters about it. The fact 817 00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:07,200 Speaker 1: of the matter is is that while COVID has kneecapped 818 00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:10,240 Speaker 1: our industry and has destroyed, you know, put thirty percent 819 00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:12,200 Speaker 1: of it out of business, and maybe more now with 820 00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:16,080 Speaker 1: this explosion of the delta variant, the one saving grace, 821 00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:20,279 Speaker 1: uh is that I think twenty years from now, when 822 00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:21,640 Speaker 1: we have the numbers and we're gonna be able to 823 00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:26,720 Speaker 1: look back and realize that it was in knock on Wood. 824 00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:30,560 Speaker 1: Things don't get too much worse that we literally shifted 825 00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:34,120 Speaker 1: from doing business and restaurants one way to a variety 826 00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:38,480 Speaker 1: of other business models that actually worked better, were fairer 827 00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:42,200 Speaker 1: for everyone, and didn't just reward the few, but instead 828 00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:46,000 Speaker 1: rewarded the all. And I don't mean that in the 829 00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,640 Speaker 1: commonly when whenever I talked about these people immediately start 830 00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:52,120 Speaker 1: screaming socialist at me. Couldn't be further from the truth. 831 00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:56,360 Speaker 1: I am very much a capitalist. Uh I believe in capitalism. 832 00:52:56,360 --> 00:52:59,800 Speaker 1: I actually believe as an entrepreneur that that small business 833 00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:05,120 Speaker 1: and big business can actually save uh culture can save 834 00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:10,400 Speaker 1: this country uh In for many different reasons, UM, but 835 00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:13,200 Speaker 1: I very much of the capitalist. I just believe that 836 00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,320 Speaker 1: we have used the wrong economics and the wrong revenue 837 00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:22,160 Speaker 1: system in restaurants and been benefiting the onlys. And I 838 00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:24,920 Speaker 1: think that the I think that's time. That time has come, 839 00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:28,440 Speaker 1: and I think smart and savvy operators have realized they 840 00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:33,759 Speaker 1: can actually be more successful in uh In using more 841 00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:37,719 Speaker 1: varieties of business models, keeping the cash register ringing, not 842 00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:41,520 Speaker 1: just in lunch and dinner, uh using bonuses and incentives 843 00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:45,200 Speaker 1: and and yes even co op models, and yes, even 844 00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:50,600 Speaker 1: paying their employees more Uh. Michael Thestoria Um owns a 845 00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:53,399 Speaker 1: a booming franchise, one of the one of the most 846 00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:57,160 Speaker 1: popular pizza franchises in America and one of the fastest growing, 847 00:53:57,160 --> 00:54:00,439 Speaker 1: by the way, called and Pizza. Uh. People can look 848 00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:05,160 Speaker 1: him up Michael Historian his companies and Pizza. I think 849 00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:08,439 Speaker 1: he's got forty locations around the northeastern United States something 850 00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:12,440 Speaker 1: like that, and growing very quickly. Um. He's paying people 851 00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:15,520 Speaker 1: what everyone else considers an exorbitant rate and is one 852 00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:19,839 Speaker 1: of the most outspoken proponents of taking care of your 853 00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:21,800 Speaker 1: own people first, which, by the way, is a Danny 854 00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,799 Speaker 1: Meyer idea. Danny Meyer was the one thirty years ago 855 00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:27,399 Speaker 1: who said the customer is not the most important person 856 00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:29,840 Speaker 1: in the restaurant. The most important person in the restaurant 857 00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,480 Speaker 1: are the employees. If you don't take care of your 858 00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:34,839 Speaker 1: own people, then you have nothing to offer someone who 859 00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:38,320 Speaker 1: walks in the door when you're open. And I believe 860 00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:42,480 Speaker 1: those principles are very very important. Okay, Earlier you mentioned 861 00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:45,799 Speaker 1: that given a choice, you'd like to hang with restaurant 862 00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:50,120 Speaker 1: employees in those in recovery. What is special about those 863 00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:53,480 Speaker 1: in the recovery? Is it just a shared experience, or 864 00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:56,640 Speaker 1: do you learn something that those who have not been 865 00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:04,160 Speaker 1: through the process don't have uh the latter um, And 866 00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:06,160 Speaker 1: by the way, I should expand that, I was saying 867 00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:08,759 Speaker 1: that with a with a smile and a wink. UM. 868 00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:12,760 Speaker 1: I like hanging out with people who have been through 869 00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:17,719 Speaker 1: some heavy ship. I like hanging out with people who 870 00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:22,719 Speaker 1: have been forced to make some changes, have either had 871 00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:26,680 Speaker 1: a phoenix like experience rising from the ashes, had the 872 00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:31,319 Speaker 1: Joseph Campbell Hero's journey, and he was talking about, you know, 873 00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:37,000 Speaker 1: the odisious of of ancient Greek mythology. Tested kept away 874 00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:39,920 Speaker 1: from home for thirty years until finally returning to his 875 00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:44,319 Speaker 1: beloved athens um and that was the way that he 876 00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:48,760 Speaker 1: became spiritually fit and closer in understanding to what made 877 00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:54,800 Speaker 1: him happy. UM. I believe that people who have uh 878 00:55:55,120 --> 00:56:00,000 Speaker 1: not been tested in life, who have not faced uh 879 00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:02,760 Speaker 1: at because I think we all do at some point 880 00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:08,120 Speaker 1: incredible challenges UM, don't become the fullest versions of themselves. 881 00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:12,040 Speaker 1: And I really love being I think food people are 882 00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:15,399 Speaker 1: most generous people in the whole world. I mean one 883 00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:18,720 Speaker 1: reason while our industry has been kneecapped for the last 884 00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:22,160 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty months. I mean literally kneecapped. Who are what 885 00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:24,920 Speaker 1: are we doing? We're just borrowing money from banks to 886 00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:28,359 Speaker 1: feed first responders. I mean, you know, food people are 887 00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:31,760 Speaker 1: still cooking for other people and we can't we can't 888 00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,280 Speaker 1: help it. We This is how we believe in serving 889 00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:39,359 Speaker 1: our communities. UM. And I believe people in recovery once 890 00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:43,680 Speaker 1: they've established a a a firm handle on their own 891 00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:47,960 Speaker 1: sobriety from whatever they're recovering from whatever there is um 892 00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:51,360 Speaker 1: is UM. I think those people who are doing the 893 00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:53,959 Speaker 1: real work to change themselves are some of the most 894 00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:58,400 Speaker 1: inspirational people in the whole world. UM. I wish uh 895 00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:01,440 Speaker 1: that uh someone who look like Santa Claus but without 896 00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:06,640 Speaker 1: a hat, parted the clouds and whispered the the truth 897 00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:09,920 Speaker 1: of life, the answer to all the questions that I 898 00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,920 Speaker 1: have about you know, how to be happy, joyous and free. 899 00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:17,480 Speaker 1: I wish that that that happened to me, but it 900 00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:22,400 Speaker 1: never has. Where I've heard and learned from people is 901 00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:26,280 Speaker 1: from folks who have been through the same challenges in 902 00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:30,640 Speaker 1: life that I face or will face. UM, who share 903 00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:33,560 Speaker 1: their experience, strength and hope with me. And when they 904 00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:36,880 Speaker 1: do that, I believe that's actually my higher power talking 905 00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:40,720 Speaker 1: to me. Without getting to out there. I hear the 906 00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:44,240 Speaker 1: answers all the time from other human beings. That's who 907 00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:48,160 Speaker 1: That's where I get my spiritual strength from. Uh. Is 908 00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:50,680 Speaker 1: not from Santa Claus in the sky, but from other 909 00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:54,320 Speaker 1: human beings. Okay, how does a nice Jewish boy from 910 00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:57,280 Speaker 1: New York City like you who goes to you know, 911 00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:01,240 Speaker 1: high level institutions like Dalton and end up in the 912 00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:05,160 Speaker 1: food world? Oh? Boy, I knew when I was four 913 00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:09,560 Speaker 1: years old. I think those other detours were I was 914 00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:14,520 Speaker 1: very lucky that my parents had me in those places 915 00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:18,800 Speaker 1: because I I received an education that allowed me to read, write, 916 00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:25,880 Speaker 1: and think critically, um, and have some heightened level of 917 00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:30,240 Speaker 1: intellectual curiosity and really be tested at school and enjoy 918 00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:36,840 Speaker 1: it um and uh. But all along my parents were 919 00:58:36,880 --> 00:58:40,240 Speaker 1: also traveling with me all around the world, cooking with me. 920 00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:43,200 Speaker 1: My mother was an incredible cook, my father was an 921 00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:46,680 Speaker 1: incredible cook. They both loved to travel. UH. We ate 922 00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:48,520 Speaker 1: to travel and travel to eight. I've been around the 923 00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:50,200 Speaker 1: world two or three times by the time I was 924 00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:56,240 Speaker 1: fifteen years old. Um, what did you My dad was 925 00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:59,360 Speaker 1: in the advertising business, and at one point his domestic 926 00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:02,240 Speaker 1: agency decided they were going to go international and so 927 00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:04,480 Speaker 1: they had to take a bunch of executives and actually 928 00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:06,960 Speaker 1: be out on the road for years and years and 929 00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:12,640 Speaker 1: years establishing these outside agencies. First by uh what's now 930 00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:16,680 Speaker 1: called acquisition, right. You acquire an agency in London or France, 931 00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:20,400 Speaker 1: or Rome or Paris or Rome, uh, and then you 932 00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:23,840 Speaker 1: stock it with some people to establish your own culture. 933 00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:27,720 Speaker 1: And then you send your c suite executives over there 934 00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:30,840 Speaker 1: on a regular basis to be checking up on things. 935 00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:33,120 Speaker 1: You know, there was you know, this is the sixties 936 00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:36,080 Speaker 1: and seventies, by the way. Um. And so my father 937 00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:38,400 Speaker 1: would you know, he'd have to go to Paris for 938 00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:41,400 Speaker 1: three or four days because there was an issue over there. 939 00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:44,720 Speaker 1: And if I was staying with him my parents were divorced, 940 00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:48,600 Speaker 1: I would go. There was no nanny or babysitter. And 941 00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:51,800 Speaker 1: my father believed that me going away with him was 942 00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:54,920 Speaker 1: learning as much as I would anywhere else. Uh. The 943 00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:58,920 Speaker 1: very progressive Dalton school that I was in h agreed. 944 00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:02,240 Speaker 1: And so I would find myself at age nine sitting 945 01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:07,960 Speaker 1: in a little seafood restaurant in LaSalle in Paris. The 946 01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:12,360 Speaker 1: old the old fishing docks and and the just a 947 01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:17,280 Speaker 1: place where there was danger, where there was you know old, 948 01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:20,480 Speaker 1: you know, dirty music on the jukebox, where the lights 949 01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:23,400 Speaker 1: were low, where there was a baseball bat and a 950 01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:26,080 Speaker 1: gun behind the bar that had been used. But the 951 01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:29,240 Speaker 1: food was incredible. And we're sitting there eating these tiny 952 01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:33,640 Speaker 1: little big ornio, these steamed periwinkles, these little tiny blue 953 01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:39,120 Speaker 1: snails because my father's counterpart, who ran the French agency, 954 01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:46,760 Speaker 1: Jacques Lange, loved drinking pastie and eating uh, these big 955 01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:50,720 Speaker 1: orno and then having a saute piece of fish for dinner. 956 01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:53,640 Speaker 1: And my father loved it too. And I just sat 957 01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:57,240 Speaker 1: there reading my book while they talked business, and it 958 01:00:57,320 --> 01:00:59,440 Speaker 1: was it was life changing for me. I was hooked. 959 01:00:59,640 --> 01:01:01,840 Speaker 1: I want it to be a part of that mystique 960 01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:05,880 Speaker 1: and that that that or I loved everything about the 961 01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:08,680 Speaker 1: food business. And then when I was the summer I 962 01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:12,680 Speaker 1: turned fourteen, I asked my dad for that the spring 963 01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:15,919 Speaker 1: before I turned four. You're the only you're the only 964 01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:19,280 Speaker 1: kid or the other only child, only child, but my 965 01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:21,840 Speaker 1: my father, I'm a July baby. So in you know, 966 01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:24,880 Speaker 1: April of that year, I went to my dad and said, hey, 967 01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:27,880 Speaker 1: summer's coming up. I kind of like an allowance raise, 968 01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:30,840 Speaker 1: and you know, I think I was getting whatever seventy 969 01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:34,520 Speaker 1: five cents. I'd like a buck And my dad looked 970 01:01:34,520 --> 01:01:36,880 Speaker 1: at me and he said, what do you mean? And 971 01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:39,280 Speaker 1: I said, you know, allow, it's a little a little 972 01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:43,320 Speaker 1: something something for me. Now. My father, greatest generation, lied 973 01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:46,000 Speaker 1: about his age, went into the Navy, you know, it 974 01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:48,760 Speaker 1: was in the Pacific for three years, came back, helped 975 01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:53,000 Speaker 1: build a big company. Um didn't take any crap from anybody. 976 01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:58,280 Speaker 1: He was a legendary figure in the ad agency world 977 01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:01,840 Speaker 1: of the fifties, sixties and seventies, and and you know, 978 01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:03,760 Speaker 1: he was the He was one of those people who 979 01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:10,120 Speaker 1: had gravitational pull around them. Everyone loved my father, UM, 980 01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:14,000 Speaker 1: and you know that that everything slanted towards him when 981 01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:17,040 Speaker 1: he walked into the room. I'm a pale version of 982 01:02:17,080 --> 01:02:20,680 Speaker 1: my dad, much paler. And my father looked at me 983 01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:24,160 Speaker 1: and laughed and told me to to get out of 984 01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:26,720 Speaker 1: his room. I mean literally chase ma. And I was like, 985 01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:30,760 Speaker 1: what what did I do? And the next day he explained, 986 01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:33,080 Speaker 1: my dad loved to make me sleep on stuff. And 987 01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:35,120 Speaker 1: the next day he explained to me that I was 988 01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:37,680 Speaker 1: going to turn fourteen, allowance was over time to get 989 01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:42,080 Speaker 1: a job. M That irked me for a while, but 990 01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:45,760 Speaker 1: I immediately countered with great, I want to work at 991 01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:49,120 Speaker 1: the Quiet Clam, which was a seafood restaurant that some 992 01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:53,040 Speaker 1: family friends owned on the Montauk Highway in East Hampton. 993 01:02:53,400 --> 01:02:57,760 Speaker 1: This is nineteen and uh, my father said, you can't 994 01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:00,000 Speaker 1: work in a restaurant. How are you can't bike there? 995 01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:03,160 Speaker 1: It's too far. I said, I'll get someone to drive me. 996 01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:06,000 Speaker 1: I'll find I'll get a lift. He goes, well, Maggie 997 01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:09,080 Speaker 1: and Irene haven't even offered you the job yet. I said, 998 01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:13,320 Speaker 1: I'll go ask them. And thus became the process, a 999 01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:15,880 Speaker 1: month long of negotiating with my parents to work at 1000 01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:18,880 Speaker 1: this seafood restaurant, which I did, and I had a 1001 01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:21,439 Speaker 1: natural ability for it. I cooked with my mother for 1002 01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:24,960 Speaker 1: you know, a decade. Um, I'd forged. We didn't call 1003 01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:28,040 Speaker 1: it foraging. Uh we we we gather food. We'd rake 1004 01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:32,040 Speaker 1: for clams at Barnes Landing. We'd surfcast for striped bass. 1005 01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:35,640 Speaker 1: We uh you know, go crabbing in the ponds beyond 1006 01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:40,200 Speaker 1: the Georgia Coad Breakwater. Um, we would go ealing in 1007 01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:43,280 Speaker 1: three mile Harbor. I mean, you know, my father loved 1008 01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:45,040 Speaker 1: to collect food and throw it on the grill at 1009 01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:47,760 Speaker 1: the beach or whatever. We pull muscles up from in 1010 01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:51,160 Speaker 1: between the rocks on the jetties. Uh. And my mother 1011 01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:55,960 Speaker 1: had a huge garden at our home, and so I'd 1012 01:03:56,080 --> 01:03:58,360 Speaker 1: been food for so I knew how to chop a tomato. 1013 01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:00,560 Speaker 1: I knew how to shock a clam. I knew how 1014 01:04:00,640 --> 01:04:03,520 Speaker 1: to grill a piece of meat. And I also had 1015 01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:07,520 Speaker 1: a natural aptitude for it. And so I became pretty 1016 01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:12,040 Speaker 1: successful throughout my high school years cooking at this restaurant. 1017 01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:14,880 Speaker 1: Went away to college because my father believed I needed 1018 01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:18,640 Speaker 1: to go to a good college, uh and studying art 1019 01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:20,400 Speaker 1: history and history. For a while, I thought I was 1020 01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:23,920 Speaker 1: going to teach art history. Um, there's a lot of 1021 01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:28,120 Speaker 1: similarities that art history has uh with with food. You know, 1022 01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:30,400 Speaker 1: you look at a painting. I remember Madam Karetsky in 1023 01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:32,840 Speaker 1: the in the first day of the first class of 1024 01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:36,920 Speaker 1: you know, Renaissance painting, put a put a painting by 1025 01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:41,200 Speaker 1: a Dutch master up on a wall from from the 1026 01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:45,480 Speaker 1: Northern Renaissance era. UM. And you know, it was a 1027 01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:47,720 Speaker 1: woman and she's standing in front of a window, and 1028 01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:49,720 Speaker 1: there's a table and a dog and a bowl of 1029 01:04:49,760 --> 01:04:52,120 Speaker 1: fruit on the you know, and that's really all you 1030 01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:55,040 Speaker 1: can see. And she asked everyone to write down everything 1031 01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:59,400 Speaker 1: you see in that painting. So everyone did. It wound 1032 01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:02,720 Speaker 1: up being, you know, fifteen twenty nuns. And then she 1033 01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:04,720 Speaker 1: spent the rest of the forty five minutes after calling 1034 01:05:04,720 --> 01:05:07,160 Speaker 1: on a few students, just to verify that no one 1035 01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:09,840 Speaker 1: could actually look at this painting the way she could. 1036 01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:15,040 Speaker 1: And she then spent forty five minutes explaining what she saw. Uh, 1037 01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:17,640 Speaker 1: there were pineapples. They don't grow in the fruit ball, 1038 01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:20,240 Speaker 1: they don't grow in holland that met the family was wealthy. 1039 01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:23,960 Speaker 1: Through the window you could see boats. That was probably there's. 1040 01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:27,480 Speaker 1: They were traders based on the dress, the material, the 1041 01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:31,160 Speaker 1: jewelry she had. And so she told this story of 1042 01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:37,960 Speaker 1: you know, of of you know coastal uh the coastal Netherlands, um, 1043 01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:41,440 Speaker 1: you know, in the fifteen hundreds in a way that 1044 01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:43,880 Speaker 1: was like Sherlock Holmes to me. I mean, how did 1045 01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:48,200 Speaker 1: she deduce this? I was staggered, and so I fell 1046 01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:50,440 Speaker 1: in love with our history. Had always studied history. I'm 1047 01:05:50,440 --> 01:05:54,880 Speaker 1: a double major, you know, got a essentially a degree 1048 01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:58,080 Speaker 1: in both. And I realized one day when I was 1049 01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:01,040 Speaker 1: staring at a bowl of china fina a jungle market 1050 01:06:01,280 --> 01:06:04,520 Speaker 1: in nicaraguach. I'm fine as a stew made of inners 1051 01:06:04,640 --> 01:06:08,480 Speaker 1: guts of the animals. It's you know, couching, a povera, 1052 01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:11,640 Speaker 1: the food of the poor, right, and it's it was 1053 01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:15,160 Speaker 1: made in big ten gallon barrels and all the workers 1054 01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:17,200 Speaker 1: and the people who finally got off work at ten 1055 01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:20,040 Speaker 1: o'clock at night after starting at seven in the morning. 1056 01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:22,480 Speaker 1: By the way, I would come by and for a 1057 01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:26,120 Speaker 1: few uh you know, shekels be able to have a 1058 01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:29,840 Speaker 1: big bowl of this incredibly nutritious food, but one made 1059 01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:33,840 Speaker 1: with parts that other people overlooked. And I looked at 1060 01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:36,080 Speaker 1: my bowl. It was probably the third or fourth season 1061 01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:38,640 Speaker 1: of Bizarre Foods and I and I just started talking 1062 01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:42,840 Speaker 1: about what this bowl of food looked like to me. 1063 01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:47,840 Speaker 1: And I didn't see, you know, intestines and livers and 1064 01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:52,080 Speaker 1: hearts and lungs um and onions and hot chilies, uh 1065 01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:57,680 Speaker 1: and and coconut milk. I saw, you know, families and 1066 01:06:57,720 --> 01:06:59,840 Speaker 1: the struggle to put food on the table and not 1067 01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:03,160 Speaker 1: being able to afford anything else, and raising animals and 1068 01:07:03,280 --> 01:07:05,840 Speaker 1: keeping the the innards to yourself when you had to 1069 01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:08,160 Speaker 1: harvest them and sell them, uh so that you could, 1070 01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:10,720 Speaker 1: you know, buy some school books for your kid. And 1071 01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:14,400 Speaker 1: I started to talk about Nicaraguan culture in you know, 1072 01:07:15,120 --> 01:07:19,120 Speaker 1: fourteen uh, the same way that Madam Koretsky talked about 1073 01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:24,720 Speaker 1: you know, Northern European culture in fifteen sixty eight, and 1074 01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:27,000 Speaker 1: I realized that it was the exact same thing. You 1075 01:07:27,080 --> 01:07:30,040 Speaker 1: have to look at something and get a snapshot of history. 1076 01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:33,320 Speaker 1: It's actually what drew me. And I'm not blowing smoke 1077 01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:37,640 Speaker 1: where I shouldn't. We've just met, but in full transparency, 1078 01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:40,080 Speaker 1: we have been emailing each other back and forth several 1079 01:07:40,120 --> 01:07:42,120 Speaker 1: times over the last couple of years. It's one of 1080 01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:45,640 Speaker 1: the things that I loved about your newsletters that I'm 1081 01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:49,640 Speaker 1: addicted to because you you do the same thing. You 1082 01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:53,120 Speaker 1: draw inferences and are able to illuminate parts of our 1083 01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:57,160 Speaker 1: contemporary culture or do comparative cultural studies to the way 1084 01:07:57,280 --> 01:07:59,280 Speaker 1: things may have been thirty or forty years ago to 1085 01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:02,640 Speaker 1: the way they are now in talking about music, and 1086 01:08:02,760 --> 01:08:06,320 Speaker 1: I feel that I do the same thing, uh in 1087 01:08:06,520 --> 01:08:09,400 Speaker 1: with food. Maybe I'm also a paler version of you, 1088 01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:13,120 Speaker 1: although I am an art history major too. Are you 1089 01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:18,799 Speaker 1: really absolutely, oh my gosh, fantastic, But making it about you, 1090 01:08:18,800 --> 01:08:23,000 Speaker 1: You're in college, you know, the next period of your life. Hey, 1091 01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:26,799 Speaker 1: are you working in restaurants? Be? Does that make it separate? 1092 01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:30,920 Speaker 1: You separate from the people? Advass or see you graduate? 1093 01:08:31,160 --> 01:08:32,880 Speaker 1: How do you get into the industry? And how do 1094 01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:36,840 Speaker 1: you fall off the edge with alcohol and drugs, etcetera. 1095 01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:40,400 Speaker 1: So that period, I was already a daily cocaine user 1096 01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:44,600 Speaker 1: and a a chipper, a weekend heroin user. By the 1097 01:08:44,640 --> 01:08:47,960 Speaker 1: time I graduated college high school in the nineteen seventy nine, 1098 01:08:49,320 --> 01:08:51,880 Speaker 1: I mean pillows every day, smoking weed every day, doing 1099 01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:58,400 Speaker 1: coke every day. Weekends are for uh, we're for sniffing heroin. 1100 01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:03,479 Speaker 1: And I had fallen in love with hallucinogenic mushrooms and 1101 01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:06,800 Speaker 1: so two or three times a week I'm eating those. 1102 01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:09,600 Speaker 1: I'm a true New York City garbage head. Um. It 1103 01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:17,560 Speaker 1: was impossible to uh maintain the focus on my school work. Impossible. Um. 1104 01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:20,040 Speaker 1: After my first Tuesday after my freshman year in college, 1105 01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:23,040 Speaker 1: I was asked to take a mandatory semester off. UM. 1106 01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:29,120 Speaker 1: So the summer of nineteen eighty I went to Italy 1107 01:09:30,320 --> 01:09:35,840 Speaker 1: and I worked for nine months uh in a restaurant. Lie. 1108 01:09:36,240 --> 01:09:39,280 Speaker 1: I worked for four months in a restaurant in Venice 1109 01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:43,360 Speaker 1: during their peak time, UH called a La Columba restaurants 1110 01:09:43,360 --> 01:09:46,160 Speaker 1: that's still there, uh, right around the corner from the 1111 01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:51,799 Speaker 1: tavernas La Finch uh stone's throw from Saint Mark's Place. 1112 01:09:52,479 --> 01:09:54,240 Speaker 1: And I worked there for four or four and a 1113 01:09:54,280 --> 01:09:57,200 Speaker 1: half months, UM, and then I went to Paris and 1114 01:09:57,240 --> 01:10:00,679 Speaker 1: worked for at Last Center at a restaurant called Larca 1115 01:10:00,760 --> 01:10:04,040 Speaker 1: Strata uh, in the same building that now houses are 1116 01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:08,599 Speaker 1: Peg another very famous three star Michelin restaurant. A Larca 1117 01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:11,000 Speaker 1: Strata had three Michelin stars. At the time, there was 1118 01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:13,800 Speaker 1: no Italian How did you get these gigs? Well, those 1119 01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:17,000 Speaker 1: were the days. This is fascinating. I mean you talk 1120 01:10:17,040 --> 01:10:19,320 Speaker 1: about a time shift. Those were the days when if 1121 01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:22,720 Speaker 1: you were an American culinarian, uh, you could knock on 1122 01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:26,120 Speaker 1: the back door of a fancy restaurant and asked to 1123 01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:29,439 Speaker 1: work there, And if you were smart, you just said, 1124 01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:33,760 Speaker 1: I'll work for free, knowing that if you're good, they'll 1125 01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:35,800 Speaker 1: wind up paying you something. But at least they'll let 1126 01:10:35,800 --> 01:10:38,200 Speaker 1: you sleep on the banquets at night, or they have 1127 01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:41,479 Speaker 1: a place where people can sleep. I remember at one 1128 01:10:41,479 --> 01:10:45,799 Speaker 1: point at Alla Columba, I was sleeping in in literally 1129 01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:50,719 Speaker 1: an attic of a of a farm. There were cows 1130 01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:52,400 Speaker 1: living below me. And I was up in the attic. 1131 01:10:52,760 --> 01:10:55,439 Speaker 1: It was the best living. I slept like a baby 1132 01:10:55,560 --> 01:10:58,679 Speaker 1: every single night, probably because I was so exhausted. Uh 1133 01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:01,040 Speaker 1: But but then the chef would pick me up in 1134 01:11:01,080 --> 01:11:04,120 Speaker 1: the morning and we'd walk to the vegetable market and 1135 01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:06,519 Speaker 1: the rialto seafood market, and we pick up all the 1136 01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:09,360 Speaker 1: stuff for the restaurants. And I learned about ingredients because 1137 01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:13,479 Speaker 1: I was the guy carrying the chef's stuff and wheeling 1138 01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:17,439 Speaker 1: it on this two wheeler through the cobblestone streets of Venice, 1139 01:11:17,479 --> 01:11:19,200 Speaker 1: because I was the lowest guy in the totem pole. 1140 01:11:19,479 --> 01:11:23,800 Speaker 1: But as that uh well about to term nineteen year old, um, 1141 01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:28,120 Speaker 1: I was learning about ingredients I've never seen before in America. Right, 1142 01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:31,759 Speaker 1: I'd never seen a razor clams as thin as a pencil. 1143 01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:34,760 Speaker 1: I never knew to open them. You dip the end 1144 01:11:34,800 --> 01:11:36,840 Speaker 1: in a little pile of salt that you keep in 1145 01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:39,120 Speaker 1: a cup in your station, and they sort of open 1146 01:11:39,240 --> 01:11:41,160 Speaker 1: up for a second. You can run your finger through 1147 01:11:41,200 --> 01:11:44,120 Speaker 1: and not damage the raw razor clam, still keep them 1148 01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:46,720 Speaker 1: alive and remove them from the shell. I didn't know 1149 01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:49,280 Speaker 1: there were eight types of trevisa lettuce that we commonly 1150 01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:52,599 Speaker 1: call ridicio in this country. Um and that the tight 1151 01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:54,920 Speaker 1: head of ridicilo that we eat in this country was 1152 01:11:55,080 --> 01:11:59,639 Speaker 1: unknown to Italy. We actually genetically engineered it to the 1153 01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:02,160 Speaker 1: whole and tight use Americans like stuff where you get 1154 01:12:02,160 --> 01:12:04,840 Speaker 1: a lot of weight for your money, right, um. And 1155 01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:07,000 Speaker 1: so I learned all this stuff in this restaurant. Then 1156 01:12:07,040 --> 01:12:09,360 Speaker 1: I went to Paris to stand knocked on a door. 1157 01:12:09,920 --> 01:12:14,759 Speaker 1: So in those days, this is the late seventies, early eighties, 1158 01:12:14,760 --> 01:12:18,160 Speaker 1: you could actually do that. I was talking to Thomas Keller, 1159 01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:22,720 Speaker 1: one of the deans of American cooking and you know, 1160 01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:26,439 Speaker 1: arguably the most important chef of the last fifty years 1161 01:12:26,479 --> 01:12:30,840 Speaker 1: in America. Um and and again someone for whom he 1162 01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:34,200 Speaker 1: will still be in the books a hundred years from now. Um. 1163 01:12:34,360 --> 01:12:38,879 Speaker 1: And I asked him about stagiers and interns from cooking schools. 1164 01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:41,800 Speaker 1: I said, how many applications do you get a year 1165 01:12:42,240 --> 01:12:45,439 Speaker 1: two stage and intern in your restaurants? Because if you 1166 01:12:45,479 --> 01:12:47,400 Speaker 1: could work for three or four months in a Thomas 1167 01:12:47,479 --> 01:12:50,799 Speaker 1: Keller restaurant, it gets you a much better, more plumb 1168 01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:52,920 Speaker 1: position at the next place that you move on to 1169 01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:55,200 Speaker 1: and it and it gives you connections to some of 1170 01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:59,519 Speaker 1: the best culinarians in the world. And uh, he said, well, 1171 01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:02,439 Speaker 1: we stopped counting fifteen years ago when we hit ten 1172 01:13:02,479 --> 01:13:06,439 Speaker 1: thousand applications a year. So that just shows you how 1173 01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:09,360 Speaker 1: popular food is. I went to the Culinary Institute of 1174 01:13:09,360 --> 01:13:13,160 Speaker 1: America at one point because I thought I should go 1175 01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:16,600 Speaker 1: to cooking school. And I didn't have a great experience 1176 01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:19,160 Speaker 1: there on the on the day that I was I 1177 01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:21,559 Speaker 1: was there, Um, I already knew a lot, had been 1178 01:13:21,560 --> 01:13:25,240 Speaker 1: cooking a lot, and and the CIA was you know 1179 01:13:25,439 --> 01:13:27,479 Speaker 1: that there was no waiting list. I think now there's 1180 01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:29,280 Speaker 1: like a five year winning list to get into the 1181 01:13:29,280 --> 01:13:32,320 Speaker 1: c I A. I mean, it's just it's it's an incredible, 1182 01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:38,800 Speaker 1: incredible explosion in the food business in America on every 1183 01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:42,800 Speaker 1: single front. Um, when I was cooking and coming up, 1184 01:13:43,080 --> 01:13:44,680 Speaker 1: and I think it was a good thing, because I 1185 01:13:44,960 --> 01:13:47,400 Speaker 1: may have abandoned the thing I love more than anything 1186 01:13:47,400 --> 01:13:49,599 Speaker 1: in the whole world if it had been more difficult 1187 01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:52,639 Speaker 1: for me. Um, I was such a horrific drug addict 1188 01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:55,880 Speaker 1: and alcoholic. I somehow and by the way, alcoholism at 1189 01:13:55,880 --> 01:13:59,120 Speaker 1: the level that I was, uh suffering from the disease 1190 01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:04,960 Speaker 1: is oftentimes exemplified by you know, gross irresponsibility and gross 1191 01:14:05,080 --> 01:14:08,320 Speaker 1: responsibility at the same time, right, So I would show 1192 01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:12,840 Speaker 1: up for work and kick ass and make myself literally indispensable, right, 1193 01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:17,240 Speaker 1: I mean literally indispensable. Um. And then I would just 1194 01:14:17,280 --> 01:14:20,040 Speaker 1: disappear on a bender for three days, or steal a 1195 01:14:20,120 --> 01:14:24,439 Speaker 1: hundred dollars from the till, or take two bottles of vodka. 1196 01:14:24,439 --> 01:14:27,519 Speaker 1: And folks in the food business and the restaurants that 1197 01:14:27,560 --> 01:14:29,479 Speaker 1: I was working in, and by the way, some very 1198 01:14:29,520 --> 01:14:32,000 Speaker 1: good ones put up with this because I was the 1199 01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:33,880 Speaker 1: only guy that could put out two d orders of 1200 01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:36,479 Speaker 1: risotto on a Saturday night in three hours on only 1201 01:14:36,520 --> 01:14:39,519 Speaker 1: four burners. Um. I remember one restaurant I was in 1202 01:14:40,160 --> 01:14:43,160 Speaker 1: hearing a discussion between the general manager and the owner. 1203 01:14:43,479 --> 01:14:45,680 Speaker 1: The owner saying, you have to fire this guy, the 1204 01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:49,320 Speaker 1: general manager saying to him, who's gonna do two hundred 1205 01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:53,320 Speaker 1: egg dishes on Sunday brunch? We don't have anyone to 1206 01:14:53,439 --> 01:14:56,160 Speaker 1: do that. So I the general manager, saying, I don't 1207 01:14:56,280 --> 01:15:00,960 Speaker 1: care that he steals bucks worth of booze from every weekend. 1208 01:15:01,439 --> 01:15:04,640 Speaker 1: You know, is he an addict? Sure? Is he you know, 1209 01:15:04,680 --> 01:15:08,640 Speaker 1: a reprehensible mess? Sure? Is he an alcoholic? Absolutely? Is 1210 01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:10,679 Speaker 1: he a thief? For sure? But we know what he's 1211 01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:14,280 Speaker 1: doing and he can cook the gosh darn eggs um 1212 01:15:14,960 --> 01:15:19,160 Speaker 1: and eventually my food career. I cooked in some really 1213 01:15:19,160 --> 01:15:21,920 Speaker 1: great places and made quite a good name for myself 1214 01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:23,840 Speaker 1: in New York. Then the wheels came off and I 1215 01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:27,439 Speaker 1: became a homeless mess. I wound up trying to kill 1216 01:15:27,479 --> 01:15:32,240 Speaker 1: myself in a flop house hotel in January, uh, in 1217 01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:35,680 Speaker 1: New York City. Some friends found me, and a few 1218 01:15:35,760 --> 01:15:38,520 Speaker 1: days later I woke up and I was in a 1219 01:15:38,560 --> 01:15:44,480 Speaker 1: hospital attached to what is now Hazel and Betty Ford. 1220 01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:48,520 Speaker 1: You say you tried to kill yourself, A little bit slower. 1221 01:15:49,360 --> 01:15:51,759 Speaker 1: You were in such a bad place. Was his heroine? 1222 01:15:52,160 --> 01:15:54,320 Speaker 1: You're in the floor. Give me a little more detail, 1223 01:15:54,360 --> 01:15:57,080 Speaker 1: a little more fot I kicked. I kicked hard drugs 1224 01:15:57,120 --> 01:16:03,800 Speaker 1: three years before I went homeless. Um. In negotiation with 1225 01:16:04,479 --> 01:16:09,120 Speaker 1: my friends, my girlfriend, my parents, Oh, the problem is 1226 01:16:09,160 --> 01:16:11,599 Speaker 1: hard drugs. I'll get rid of those, right. The problem 1227 01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:14,120 Speaker 1: wasn't hard drugs. The problem was me. The problem was 1228 01:16:14,439 --> 01:16:17,160 Speaker 1: I couldn't handle taking anything that affected me from the 1229 01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:19,880 Speaker 1: neck up. Uh. But the drugs and alcohol are just 1230 01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:23,439 Speaker 1: a symptom. I I had a life problem. I had 1231 01:16:23,439 --> 01:16:27,519 Speaker 1: a responsibility problem. I had a spiritual illness. I was 1232 01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:32,439 Speaker 1: I was soul sick. I was I was incapable of 1233 01:16:32,479 --> 01:16:36,280 Speaker 1: living life on life's terms. I I I I didn't 1234 01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:39,760 Speaker 1: need to be rehabilitated. I needed to be hubilitated. I 1235 01:16:40,080 --> 01:16:43,760 Speaker 1: didn't have any of it. So um, little by little, 1236 01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:46,799 Speaker 1: I gave up everything, and then eventually I just got 1237 01:16:46,920 --> 01:16:49,080 Speaker 1: you know, I went from that phase. It's it's a 1238 01:16:49,160 --> 01:16:54,000 Speaker 1: very unique thing for alcoholics and drug addicts. You you 1239 01:16:54,000 --> 01:16:56,760 Speaker 1: you're in a phase where you tell people, when confronted 1240 01:16:56,800 --> 01:17:00,679 Speaker 1: with the truth, you know, by by people who love you, Hey, 1241 01:17:00,720 --> 01:17:03,599 Speaker 1: I love you, You're my best friend, You're you're you're 1242 01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:06,200 Speaker 1: a mess, and you've done X, Y and Z, and 1243 01:17:06,240 --> 01:17:08,080 Speaker 1: you got fired from your job, and your wife is 1244 01:17:08,160 --> 01:17:09,960 Speaker 1: leaving you, and the dog won't talk to you, and 1245 01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:12,320 Speaker 1: you you're you've got no money in the bank account. 1246 01:17:12,400 --> 01:17:14,559 Speaker 1: And the police said all this stuff is you have 1247 01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:17,720 Speaker 1: all these horrific things that have happened to you, your consequences, 1248 01:17:18,120 --> 01:17:21,280 Speaker 1: and you sit there and and you deny it. Oh, oh, 1249 01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:23,960 Speaker 1: well here's why, and that's not really the case. And 1250 01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:26,800 Speaker 1: well I wasn't really arrested. And she I really don't 1251 01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:28,639 Speaker 1: want to have that relationship with her, So I'm happy 1252 01:17:28,680 --> 01:17:31,200 Speaker 1: she's out of my life. And you just make every 1253 01:17:31,200 --> 01:17:35,840 Speaker 1: excuse in the book. And I went from that place 1254 01:17:37,000 --> 01:17:40,880 Speaker 1: about four years before I sobered up, to a place 1255 01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:43,559 Speaker 1: where if you confronted me with those things, I told 1256 01:17:43,560 --> 01:17:45,559 Speaker 1: you to go screw yourself and get out of my way. 1257 01:17:45,640 --> 01:17:48,800 Speaker 1: I didn't care. I didn't care that I was that way. 1258 01:17:49,360 --> 01:17:52,080 Speaker 1: And then eventually you get a case of what in 1259 01:17:52,160 --> 01:17:55,720 Speaker 1: recovery we call the buckets, where you're just like, you 1260 01:17:55,800 --> 01:17:59,479 Speaker 1: don't care. Fuck it. And at that point I did 1261 01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:02,920 Speaker 1: lower and lower and lower and lower, and crossed lines 1262 01:18:02,960 --> 01:18:07,960 Speaker 1: and barriers, uh that I never thought. I never thought 1263 01:18:08,040 --> 01:18:10,519 Speaker 1: I would I would cross. I never thought I would 1264 01:18:10,560 --> 01:18:13,760 Speaker 1: become a petty, petty criminal. That wasn't when when I 1265 01:18:13,840 --> 01:18:19,200 Speaker 1: was ten fifteen years old, that wasn't in my Hey, someday, 1266 01:18:19,439 --> 01:18:22,120 Speaker 1: I want to be so desperate that I'm gonna stand 1267 01:18:22,160 --> 01:18:25,080 Speaker 1: in the freezing cold outside of nightclubs in New York 1268 01:18:25,120 --> 01:18:28,000 Speaker 1: that I know, and when a drunk business guy in 1269 01:18:28,040 --> 01:18:31,080 Speaker 1: an expensive custom suit, because I could recognize one right 1270 01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:34,719 Speaker 1: go stumbling by. If he's not with any other friends, 1271 01:18:34,760 --> 01:18:37,360 Speaker 1: I'm gonna follow him, push him into the alley, grab 1272 01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:40,920 Speaker 1: his wallet, and run, or I'm gonna steal purses off 1273 01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:44,320 Speaker 1: the backs of restaurant chairs on a summer's day and 1274 01:18:44,360 --> 01:18:48,200 Speaker 1: Madison Avenue, run to the wall at Central Park, vaulted 1275 01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:51,080 Speaker 1: and head down to Alphabet City and sell the credit 1276 01:18:51,120 --> 01:18:54,760 Speaker 1: cards and passport and get some cash to to get 1277 01:18:54,840 --> 01:18:57,640 Speaker 1: high with. I never thought I was going to be 1278 01:18:57,720 --> 01:18:59,639 Speaker 1: that person. I never thought I would be the person 1279 01:19:00,080 --> 01:19:02,559 Speaker 1: whose parents would think they were dead. And I knew 1280 01:19:02,600 --> 01:19:05,840 Speaker 1: they thought that I was. It wasn't around, but didn't care. 1281 01:19:05,880 --> 01:19:09,400 Speaker 1: I'd rather just keep drinking and drugging endlessly. Wake up 1282 01:19:09,400 --> 01:19:13,240 Speaker 1: and use pass out, wake up and use pass out. UM. 1283 01:19:13,280 --> 01:19:17,160 Speaker 1: Eventually I got UH evicted from my There is a 1284 01:19:17,240 --> 01:19:19,120 Speaker 1: Sheriff of New York by the way. This was are 1285 01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:26,920 Speaker 1: a sheriff of Los Angeles, UM the UH. Shockingly, the 1286 01:19:26,960 --> 01:19:30,800 Speaker 1: Sheriff of New York UM knocked on my door one 1287 01:19:30,880 --> 01:19:35,599 Speaker 1: day with an eviction notice, and I wound up going 1288 01:19:35,680 --> 01:19:38,559 Speaker 1: down to the bar. I had no one to call 1289 01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:43,200 Speaker 1: for help. There was there was not a single human 1290 01:19:43,280 --> 01:19:46,040 Speaker 1: being whose number I could call. There was not a 1291 01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:51,280 Speaker 1: single human being who would take my call. UM. I 1292 01:19:51,320 --> 01:19:53,920 Speaker 1: had burned every bridge, and so I went down to 1293 01:19:54,080 --> 01:19:58,200 Speaker 1: the bar where I drank. This is by the way 1294 01:19:58,240 --> 01:20:01,160 Speaker 1: around the corner from the port authority a shot and 1295 01:20:01,400 --> 01:20:04,240 Speaker 1: beer bar that is the last stop on the on 1296 01:20:04,280 --> 01:20:07,639 Speaker 1: the subway for uh many people. Most of the regular 1297 01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:10,479 Speaker 1: customers in there just died of alcoholism, were wound up 1298 01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:14,759 Speaker 1: in institutions. And um, I would drink with these people 1299 01:20:14,800 --> 01:20:16,799 Speaker 1: till four or five in the morning. Then they closed 1300 01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:19,519 Speaker 1: the place for half an hour, spray it down, and 1301 01:20:19,520 --> 01:20:21,760 Speaker 1: then let you back in. And I went down there 1302 01:20:21,760 --> 01:20:24,240 Speaker 1: and this this old drunk named a J. I can 1303 01:20:24,360 --> 01:20:28,080 Speaker 1: see him. I've never forgotten what he looked like that night. 1304 01:20:28,120 --> 01:20:31,080 Speaker 1: He didn't have all his teeth, he had a big beard, glasses. 1305 01:20:31,560 --> 01:20:34,160 Speaker 1: He was the loudmouth guy, but he was kind of 1306 01:20:34,160 --> 01:20:36,200 Speaker 1: like the ringleader, was the cock of the walk in 1307 01:20:36,280 --> 01:20:39,680 Speaker 1: that bar. And he's like, what's up? And I was 1308 01:20:39,760 --> 01:20:42,719 Speaker 1: just like God evicted. And he said, sleep with us tonight. 1309 01:20:42,760 --> 01:20:44,600 Speaker 1: And I said, where are you sleeping? He goes, we 1310 01:20:44,640 --> 01:20:48,560 Speaker 1: have an abandoned building down on Sullivan Street that were squatting, 1311 01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:52,280 Speaker 1: and uh, I said, okay, I had a by the 1312 01:20:52,280 --> 01:20:55,360 Speaker 1: way that I had a duffel bag of dirty clothes 1313 01:20:55,400 --> 01:20:58,479 Speaker 1: with me, and so I spent eleven months of my 1314 01:20:58,560 --> 01:21:00,960 Speaker 1: life sleeping on that pile of dirty clothes in an 1315 01:21:01,000 --> 01:21:07,440 Speaker 1: abandoned building on Sullivan Street. Uh, cement casements in the windows. Um. 1316 01:21:07,479 --> 01:21:12,040 Speaker 1: It was when I look back on it, it was awful, 1317 01:21:12,240 --> 01:21:15,360 Speaker 1: and to me it was completely okay at the time. 1318 01:21:15,920 --> 01:21:19,440 Speaker 1: I used to steal a bottle of comic cleanser, uh 1319 01:21:19,479 --> 01:21:23,120 Speaker 1: every couple of days at the bodega down the street. Uh, 1320 01:21:23,280 --> 01:21:26,599 Speaker 1: you know, put some comic cleanser in your jacket pocket 1321 01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:29,360 Speaker 1: by a pack of smokes kind of thing, and then 1322 01:21:29,479 --> 01:21:34,559 Speaker 1: sprinkle a circle of comic cleanser around, uh my pile 1323 01:21:34,560 --> 01:21:37,400 Speaker 1: of dirty clothes so the rats and roaches wouldn't crawl 1324 01:21:37,439 --> 01:21:41,160 Speaker 1: over me when I passed out. Um. And eventually one 1325 01:21:41,240 --> 01:21:43,240 Speaker 1: day I woke up there and I just realized there's 1326 01:21:43,280 --> 01:21:46,639 Speaker 1: winners and losers in this world. Will Actually, right after 1327 01:21:46,680 --> 01:21:50,880 Speaker 1: New Year's Eve or New Year's Day, I woke up 1328 01:21:50,880 --> 01:21:55,320 Speaker 1: there and I just thought, I've I'm irredeemable and I'm hopeless. 1329 01:21:55,400 --> 01:21:58,640 Speaker 1: This is I literally should just end it all. I 1330 01:21:58,720 --> 01:22:01,840 Speaker 1: was in so much pain getting up every morning that 1331 01:22:02,600 --> 01:22:06,920 Speaker 1: hitting the bottle even you know, chugging at it, and 1332 01:22:07,160 --> 01:22:09,000 Speaker 1: you know, you know, like I said, I kicked the 1333 01:22:09,120 --> 01:22:11,679 Speaker 1: hard drugs, but I was still drinking booze and smoking 1334 01:22:11,680 --> 01:22:14,320 Speaker 1: with and drinking. By the way, a lot, a lot 1335 01:22:14,800 --> 01:22:17,160 Speaker 1: large volumes of alcohol. I was very turned out. It 1336 01:22:17,240 --> 01:22:18,640 Speaker 1: was very sick. I found out when I got to 1337 01:22:18,680 --> 01:22:21,360 Speaker 1: the hospital unit at Hazelden I needed to be there 1338 01:22:21,400 --> 01:22:23,840 Speaker 1: for four or five days and said the usual one 1339 01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:26,439 Speaker 1: or two because they were very concerned about my body 1340 01:22:26,680 --> 01:22:30,879 Speaker 1: giving out, UM, my organs, my my liver and kidney's 1341 01:22:30,960 --> 01:22:35,800 Speaker 1: most importantly. UH. And I just decided that I was 1342 01:22:35,960 --> 01:22:38,880 Speaker 1: I was gonna end it all. And I stole some 1343 01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:41,759 Speaker 1: jewelry from my godmother and I went in and I 1344 01:22:41,840 --> 01:22:45,080 Speaker 1: hocked it in New Jersey. By the way, huge mistake. 1345 01:22:45,320 --> 01:22:49,000 Speaker 1: Never steal something in one town, cross the state lines 1346 01:22:49,040 --> 01:22:51,519 Speaker 1: and hocket another and leave a paper trail with your 1347 01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:58,000 Speaker 1: name on it. UH. That's very typical alcoholic behavior. I 1348 01:22:58,040 --> 01:23:00,719 Speaker 1: wound up facing that charge when I was two years 1349 01:23:00,720 --> 01:23:06,000 Speaker 1: sober in Minnesota, UH, and pled guilty to it because 1350 01:23:06,040 --> 01:23:09,280 Speaker 1: I did it, and recovery had taught me to answer 1351 01:23:09,360 --> 01:23:11,759 Speaker 1: for the stuff that I did, and I was facing 1352 01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:14,559 Speaker 1: a couple of years in the workhouse at at best, 1353 01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:17,479 Speaker 1: and I wound up getting an action in contemplation of 1354 01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:19,880 Speaker 1: dismissal because of the service work that I had done. 1355 01:23:20,160 --> 01:23:24,160 Speaker 1: Thanks to the loving community here in Minnesota, that got me. Well, um, 1356 01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:28,080 Speaker 1: but when when I went to kill myself and I well, 1357 01:23:28,120 --> 01:23:30,479 Speaker 1: I took this money that I from the jewelry at Hawks, 1358 01:23:30,560 --> 01:23:34,000 Speaker 1: and I went to the San Pedro Hotel and I 1359 01:23:34,040 --> 01:23:36,479 Speaker 1: just bought a ton of vodka and just went into 1360 01:23:36,479 --> 01:23:39,280 Speaker 1: this hotel and just started chugging booze around the clock, 1361 01:23:39,439 --> 01:23:42,000 Speaker 1: knowing I just knew in my gut my body's gonna 1362 01:23:42,520 --> 01:23:46,920 Speaker 1: gonna quit. I was very, very sick, and I drank around. 1363 01:23:47,000 --> 01:23:48,800 Speaker 1: I know I was there for at least three days, 1364 01:23:48,840 --> 01:23:53,040 Speaker 1: but no more than five. Uh and uh based on 1365 01:23:53,640 --> 01:23:57,120 Speaker 1: you know, the information my friends had about that they 1366 01:23:57,160 --> 01:23:59,120 Speaker 1: got from the hotel person about when I got in 1367 01:23:59,200 --> 01:24:03,479 Speaker 1: and when they came around me. And uh, two days later, 1368 01:24:03,560 --> 01:24:13,799 Speaker 1: I was on the plane one way ticket to Minnesota. Okay, 1369 01:24:13,800 --> 01:24:16,280 Speaker 1: a couple of things. One, you know, just like the 1370 01:24:16,280 --> 01:24:19,919 Speaker 1: TV show Intervention, someone can need to go to rehab, 1371 01:24:20,720 --> 01:24:24,320 Speaker 1: but they either don't want to or they go and 1372 01:24:24,439 --> 01:24:30,040 Speaker 1: they jump. So, okay, what's your thought process? And then 1373 01:24:30,120 --> 01:24:33,240 Speaker 1: you get out your Minnesota, how do you get back 1374 01:24:33,240 --> 01:24:37,120 Speaker 1: into the food world? Super super easy, I mean easy 1375 01:24:37,160 --> 01:24:41,080 Speaker 1: answer to both, but I guess I'm really talking beyond that. 1376 01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:44,640 Speaker 1: You end up building let me let me get to 1377 01:24:44,680 --> 01:24:48,240 Speaker 1: my question a little more specifically, you end up building 1378 01:24:48,280 --> 01:24:53,479 Speaker 1: this empire. Most people, when asked that question, they say, well, 1379 01:24:53,479 --> 01:24:57,120 Speaker 1: it just happened. Okay, I'm sophisticated enough to know it 1380 01:24:57,280 --> 01:25:01,080 Speaker 1: never just tapped. It was very intentional on very so 1381 01:25:01,240 --> 01:25:06,600 Speaker 1: walk me through accepting rehabilitation and then deciding that you 1382 01:25:06,720 --> 01:25:11,599 Speaker 1: wanted to be more than just a chef and a restaurant. Um. 1383 01:25:12,120 --> 01:25:15,080 Speaker 1: Really very simple story. Um. It was not my first 1384 01:25:15,080 --> 01:25:19,440 Speaker 1: go round at recovery. The difference was that that particular 1385 01:25:20,439 --> 01:25:23,320 Speaker 1: uh time, I would have sobered up in a liquor store. 1386 01:25:23,400 --> 01:25:25,439 Speaker 1: I was sick and tired of being sick and tired, 1387 01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:30,120 Speaker 1: and I had just this tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny little 1388 01:25:30,479 --> 01:25:34,719 Speaker 1: light that came under my door, and I just focused 1389 01:25:34,720 --> 01:25:37,400 Speaker 1: on that little tiny light. And I had a series 1390 01:25:37,439 --> 01:25:40,800 Speaker 1: of experiences my first thirty days in recovery sufficient to 1391 01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:45,240 Speaker 1: get me to point C, D and E. I went 1392 01:25:45,320 --> 01:25:47,519 Speaker 1: to a half I had a good experience in my 1393 01:25:47,640 --> 01:25:50,479 Speaker 1: primary treatment at Hazel, and I went to I. I 1394 01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:52,360 Speaker 1: just said yes to everything I was told to do. 1395 01:25:52,640 --> 01:25:55,800 Speaker 1: I got a sponsor, I went to meetings, I went 1396 01:25:56,120 --> 01:25:59,200 Speaker 1: lived in the halfway house first seven months. Uh, they 1397 01:25:59,240 --> 01:26:01,200 Speaker 1: told me get a job. I got a job washing 1398 01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:08,799 Speaker 1: toilets uh in the the workhouse and jail system in St. 1399 01:26:08,840 --> 01:26:13,400 Speaker 1: Downtown St. Paul. That was so horrific a job. I 1400 01:26:13,439 --> 01:26:16,600 Speaker 1: got another job two days later as a dishwasher in 1401 01:26:16,640 --> 01:26:19,120 Speaker 1: a coffee shop. Now a coffee shop here in Minnesota 1402 01:26:19,160 --> 01:26:21,800 Speaker 1: kind of like once in New York. Uh is a 1403 01:26:21,880 --> 01:26:24,360 Speaker 1: place not like a Starbucks, but a place that opens 1404 01:26:24,360 --> 01:26:27,040 Speaker 1: at six am and serves breakfast and lunch all day long. 1405 01:26:27,439 --> 01:26:29,479 Speaker 1: And they have lots of hot coffee and just sit 1406 01:26:29,560 --> 01:26:34,000 Speaker 1: on stools and UH. Sometimes that the employees who worked 1407 01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:35,840 Speaker 1: in the kitchen, there were two of them, wouldn't show up. 1408 01:26:35,920 --> 01:26:38,720 Speaker 1: I showed up every day, uh for that job. It 1409 01:26:38,800 --> 01:26:41,160 Speaker 1: was the best job I ever had. I never wanted 1410 01:26:41,160 --> 01:26:43,559 Speaker 1: a job so much in my life is that job. 1411 01:26:44,200 --> 01:26:49,559 Speaker 1: And I treated it like like gold. And uh when 1412 01:26:49,560 --> 01:26:52,439 Speaker 1: they were sick, I would cook or or they wouldn't 1413 01:26:52,439 --> 01:26:56,679 Speaker 1: show and I would cook and the owners were like, Wow, 1414 01:26:56,720 --> 01:26:59,920 Speaker 1: you're sandwich is looking really good today. In the soup 1415 01:27:00,040 --> 01:27:04,120 Speaker 1: seems really good. And uh so I got, you know, 1416 01:27:04,160 --> 01:27:06,599 Speaker 1: a little bit of a raise and some preferential hours. 1417 01:27:07,160 --> 01:27:10,080 Speaker 1: But I was just very anonymous and going back to 1418 01:27:10,160 --> 01:27:17,280 Speaker 1: my halfway house every night. And eventually I decided to 1419 01:27:17,280 --> 01:27:20,479 Speaker 1: become a dishwasher at a better restaurant, and my plan 1420 01:27:20,600 --> 01:27:22,080 Speaker 1: was to still to go back to New York when 1421 01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:24,040 Speaker 1: I got out of the halfway house, and so I 1422 01:27:24,080 --> 01:27:28,559 Speaker 1: went to this uh, French restaurant in that had just opened. 1423 01:27:28,800 --> 01:27:31,640 Speaker 1: It was like two days old. And I knew that 1424 01:27:31,760 --> 01:27:35,920 Speaker 1: the restaurant was owned by two French guys in New 1425 01:27:36,000 --> 01:27:39,040 Speaker 1: York that I knew from partying days in sag Harbord. 1426 01:27:39,680 --> 01:27:42,320 Speaker 1: They owned a restaurant in New York of the same name, 1427 01:27:42,560 --> 01:27:45,040 Speaker 1: Cafe and de Ti in the Theater District. And they 1428 01:27:45,080 --> 01:27:47,280 Speaker 1: had opened a Cafe and de Ti in the Fauchet 1429 01:27:47,439 --> 01:27:50,040 Speaker 1: Tower right around the corner from the Theater District here 1430 01:27:50,080 --> 01:27:55,120 Speaker 1: in the Twin Cities. Um and uh, you know, so 1431 01:27:55,160 --> 01:27:58,360 Speaker 1: I knew that it would be a good place to work, 1432 01:27:59,040 --> 01:28:00,880 Speaker 1: and so I went there and I got a job 1433 01:28:00,920 --> 01:28:03,679 Speaker 1: as a dishwasher. And one day one of the cooks 1434 01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:08,880 Speaker 1: didn't show up for work, and um, it was really 1435 01:28:08,880 --> 01:28:10,920 Speaker 1: pretty straightforward. I went up to the owner and the 1436 01:28:11,000 --> 01:28:12,600 Speaker 1: chef and I said, look, I can put out that 1437 01:28:12,640 --> 01:28:15,479 Speaker 1: guy's station. And it was the grill station onion, soup, 1438 01:28:15,560 --> 01:28:20,839 Speaker 1: steak free. It's you know, a couple of appetizers, scargo 1439 01:28:20,880 --> 01:28:22,720 Speaker 1: went under the broiler there. It was a very very 1440 01:28:22,720 --> 01:28:25,280 Speaker 1: simple station. It did a couple of specials that day, 1441 01:28:25,280 --> 01:28:27,679 Speaker 1: and the lunch menu a chicken pie ard, a couple 1442 01:28:27,760 --> 01:28:31,559 Speaker 1: other things. Um, but you know it's ten twelve items 1443 01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:33,479 Speaker 1: on the menu came off of that station. It was 1444 01:28:33,520 --> 01:28:37,360 Speaker 1: the easiest station I thought in the restaurant um. And 1445 01:28:37,640 --> 01:28:39,600 Speaker 1: I've been watching for a couple of weeks. You know, 1446 01:28:39,600 --> 01:28:42,559 Speaker 1: as the dishwasher, you're running down and grabbing bus tubs 1447 01:28:42,560 --> 01:28:45,760 Speaker 1: of pots and pants from underneath the counters where the 1448 01:28:45,840 --> 01:28:49,120 Speaker 1: chefs are cooking. The cooks are cooking, and you know, 1449 01:28:49,400 --> 01:28:51,680 Speaker 1: my perch in the dish room, I could see what 1450 01:28:51,720 --> 01:28:53,760 Speaker 1: all the people were doing. And frequently, when there's no 1451 01:28:53,800 --> 01:28:56,320 Speaker 1: more dishes to watch your peeling potatoes, are working on 1452 01:28:56,720 --> 01:28:59,840 Speaker 1: prep for the chef. And so you know, I'm just 1453 01:29:00,000 --> 01:29:03,479 Speaker 1: oiling an anonymity. They're very blissfully by the way. This 1454 01:29:03,520 --> 01:29:05,680 Speaker 1: guy gets sick. They don't have a choice. They have 1455 01:29:05,800 --> 01:29:08,479 Speaker 1: to let me cook. And they're like, well, the dish washer, okay, 1456 01:29:08,520 --> 01:29:09,720 Speaker 1: keep an eye in and we'll take a couple of 1457 01:29:09,800 --> 01:29:12,360 Speaker 1: dishes away from you so it's easier. I'm like, I 1458 01:29:12,400 --> 01:29:13,880 Speaker 1: can do it. I can do it. They're like, well, 1459 01:29:14,080 --> 01:29:15,560 Speaker 1: do you know how to grill the salmon. It's like, 1460 01:29:15,560 --> 01:29:16,840 Speaker 1: I don't know how to I know how to grill 1461 01:29:16,880 --> 01:29:21,080 Speaker 1: the salmon. Um. And after the lunch shift ended, the 1462 01:29:21,120 --> 01:29:23,680 Speaker 1: owner of the restaurant, I remember, opened the door to 1463 01:29:23,760 --> 01:29:26,479 Speaker 1: his office and as I was walking by, and I 1464 01:29:26,560 --> 01:29:29,400 Speaker 1: remember just seeing his finger and I walked in the 1465 01:29:29,439 --> 01:29:31,559 Speaker 1: office and he he sat me down and he said, 1466 01:29:31,600 --> 01:29:33,880 Speaker 1: can you answer me one? I have one question for you? 1467 01:29:33,960 --> 01:29:36,720 Speaker 1: And I said sure. He said, can you explain to 1468 01:29:36,760 --> 01:29:42,080 Speaker 1: me why my dishwasher just put out food better than 1469 01:29:42,120 --> 01:29:45,719 Speaker 1: the chef in my restaurant does? And why when everything 1470 01:29:45,760 --> 01:29:47,720 Speaker 1: went to ship on the line in the middle of 1471 01:29:47,800 --> 01:29:50,080 Speaker 1: lunch because they were packed. I mean they were just 1472 01:29:51,000 --> 01:29:55,519 Speaker 1: murdered with business, um, and with lunch, you're just slammed 1473 01:29:55,520 --> 01:29:57,599 Speaker 1: all at once. They were doing a full second turn, 1474 01:29:57,720 --> 01:30:01,600 Speaker 1: which is how popular it was. But great, there was 1475 01:30:01,640 --> 01:30:04,599 Speaker 1: no French bistro in that town. Every rest every city 1476 01:30:04,680 --> 01:30:07,200 Speaker 1: needs a French bistro in a big seat like Minneapolis, 1477 01:30:07,280 --> 01:30:12,760 Speaker 1: right in downtown. It was quite famous. Um. And I said, 1478 01:30:12,479 --> 01:30:16,080 Speaker 1: I've worked in restaurants all my life and I'm just 1479 01:30:16,200 --> 01:30:18,479 Speaker 1: here in Minnesota for a while. And the guy said, 1480 01:30:18,479 --> 01:30:24,000 Speaker 1: why And I told him and he said, well, he says, I, 1481 01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:26,519 Speaker 1: I'll make you the chef in this restaurant. And I said, well, 1482 01:30:26,560 --> 01:30:30,680 Speaker 1: first of all, you're you're offering that to me immediately 1483 01:30:30,760 --> 01:30:33,240 Speaker 1: shows me that you don't know what you're doing. I said, 1484 01:30:33,240 --> 01:30:35,040 Speaker 1: so I'm less inclined to take that job. But I 1485 01:30:35,120 --> 01:30:36,640 Speaker 1: also can't take that job because I'm living in a 1486 01:30:36,640 --> 01:30:38,400 Speaker 1: halfway house. I have to go home and I have 1487 01:30:38,439 --> 01:30:42,040 Speaker 1: to be there every night at five o'clock, right And uh, 1488 01:30:42,080 --> 01:30:45,080 Speaker 1: I said, but I love my my job dishwashing here 1489 01:30:45,080 --> 01:30:48,640 Speaker 1: and I'd like to keep it. And he said, uh, well, 1490 01:30:48,640 --> 01:30:50,120 Speaker 1: I'm gonna talk to the chef. We're gonna have you 1491 01:30:50,160 --> 01:30:52,519 Speaker 1: prepping and do it. So I was washing dishes, I 1492 01:30:52,560 --> 01:30:55,479 Speaker 1: was waiting some tables, I was prepping and uh. I 1493 01:30:55,560 --> 01:30:57,720 Speaker 1: worked there for four months and then I got out 1494 01:30:57,720 --> 01:31:01,080 Speaker 1: of the halfway house and I needed to earn money 1495 01:31:01,160 --> 01:31:03,599 Speaker 1: to put a roof over my head. And I went 1496 01:31:03,640 --> 01:31:05,719 Speaker 1: back to him and I said, is that job offer 1497 01:31:05,760 --> 01:31:08,920 Speaker 1: still available? And he said yes, and I said, great, 1498 01:31:09,000 --> 01:31:12,680 Speaker 1: I'll take it. And he said, do you want to 1499 01:31:12,680 --> 01:31:16,240 Speaker 1: negotiate salary? I said not at all. I said, you 1500 01:31:16,280 --> 01:31:18,800 Speaker 1: pay me whatever you think is fair. He said, you're 1501 01:31:18,880 --> 01:31:21,519 Speaker 1: kidding me, and I said no. I said, you're gonna 1502 01:31:21,560 --> 01:31:24,120 Speaker 1: pay me more three months from now and six months 1503 01:31:24,160 --> 01:31:25,880 Speaker 1: from more, but you start me whatever you want, because 1504 01:31:25,880 --> 01:31:29,080 Speaker 1: remember I'm going from dishwasher at six dollars an hour 1505 01:31:29,240 --> 01:31:31,839 Speaker 1: whatever it was back then, to like the highest salary 1506 01:31:31,920 --> 01:31:35,160 Speaker 1: position in the restaurant. Um. But I also knew that 1507 01:31:35,200 --> 01:31:37,840 Speaker 1: I could change that restaurant and make it great, uh, 1508 01:31:37,880 --> 01:31:40,719 Speaker 1: and that the current team there was was not capable 1509 01:31:40,760 --> 01:31:43,360 Speaker 1: of that. And I told him I just need these 1510 01:31:43,400 --> 01:31:45,400 Speaker 1: These are the three nights off that I can't work 1511 01:31:45,400 --> 01:31:47,639 Speaker 1: because I need to go to my meetings. I want 1512 01:31:47,640 --> 01:31:50,880 Speaker 1: permission to have a daytime meeting from noon, sorry, from 1513 01:31:50,920 --> 01:31:53,120 Speaker 1: two to three o'clock, three days a week in the 1514 01:31:53,160 --> 01:31:56,320 Speaker 1: back of the dining room. He said sure, And I 1515 01:31:56,400 --> 01:31:59,519 Speaker 1: negotiated some other stuff all around my recovery, stuff that 1516 01:31:59,600 --> 01:32:02,479 Speaker 1: my my sponsor in the twelve step program that I 1517 01:32:02,520 --> 01:32:06,280 Speaker 1: was attending, had insisted on, by the way, and uh. 1518 01:32:06,479 --> 01:32:09,120 Speaker 1: And that was it. And after five or six years 1519 01:32:09,160 --> 01:32:11,600 Speaker 1: of you know, that restaurant, we within a year I 1520 01:32:11,680 --> 01:32:15,280 Speaker 1: replaced everyone and was arguably I mean not my words, 1521 01:32:15,360 --> 01:32:18,200 Speaker 1: wasn't are the magazines and newspapers you know called it 1522 01:32:18,240 --> 01:32:22,040 Speaker 1: the best restaurant in town. It was. Uh. We did 1523 01:32:22,080 --> 01:32:26,000 Speaker 1: so well it allowed the managing partner in Minneapolis to 1524 01:32:26,040 --> 01:32:29,040 Speaker 1: buy the place back after I've been there a year, 1525 01:32:29,120 --> 01:32:31,160 Speaker 1: from the French partners in New York who didn't want 1526 01:32:31,160 --> 01:32:34,400 Speaker 1: to run it or own a restaurant in Minneapolis anyway. 1527 01:32:34,560 --> 01:32:36,519 Speaker 1: UM and so I felt very good about what we 1528 01:32:36,560 --> 01:32:39,360 Speaker 1: achieved there. And then I decided. I had a moment 1529 01:32:39,360 --> 01:32:44,080 Speaker 1: of clarity about five six years in. I realized I 1530 01:32:44,120 --> 01:32:47,200 Speaker 1: was telling stories with my food and telling stories to 1531 01:32:47,240 --> 01:32:51,639 Speaker 1: my staff, but I felt my stories needed a bigger audience. 1532 01:32:51,920 --> 01:32:56,120 Speaker 1: And I wasn't going to be the best version of 1533 01:32:56,160 --> 01:33:00,599 Speaker 1: myself if I stayed cooking in a restaurant as much 1534 01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:09,760 Speaker 1: as I love them. And this is ninete eight nine nine, UM, 1535 01:33:09,920 --> 01:33:14,040 Speaker 1: and I left. I resigned, and I got a job, 1536 01:33:14,160 --> 01:33:18,920 Speaker 1: an internship, unpaid at a radio station, a magazine, the 1537 01:33:18,960 --> 01:33:25,240 Speaker 1: Big Glossy Monthly Minneapolis State Paul Magazine, Radio State, big 1538 01:33:25,320 --> 01:33:29,960 Speaker 1: radio station in town doing a weekend radio show for 1539 01:33:30,000 --> 01:33:34,879 Speaker 1: an hour on food. And a TV station, a local Uh. 1540 01:33:35,880 --> 01:33:39,120 Speaker 1: It was a up N station after it was Channel nine. 1541 01:33:39,160 --> 01:33:41,240 Speaker 1: It was an independence In those days in the Midwest, 1542 01:33:41,280 --> 01:33:45,360 Speaker 1: there was still radio independent TV stations owned by single people. 1543 01:33:45,840 --> 01:33:49,439 Speaker 1: Like a person owned this station and programmed it with 1544 01:33:49,439 --> 01:33:52,720 Speaker 1: stuff from all the other stuff that just doesn't exist. 1545 01:33:52,760 --> 01:33:54,880 Speaker 1: And I don't think there's a TV station like that 1546 01:33:54,960 --> 01:33:59,759 Speaker 1: left in America. But Stu Swartz owned this, this station 1547 01:33:59,800 --> 01:34:01,720 Speaker 1: that him a up N station, then a Fox O 1548 01:34:01,880 --> 01:34:06,040 Speaker 1: and O, UM and I started doing their morning. I 1549 01:34:06,120 --> 01:34:08,519 Speaker 1: was a food feature reporter and once the week I 1550 01:34:08,520 --> 01:34:12,519 Speaker 1: would do a little food recipe thing. And after ninety 1551 01:34:12,560 --> 01:34:14,519 Speaker 1: days of working for free for all of them, I just, 1552 01:34:15,240 --> 01:34:18,200 Speaker 1: I mean, it's my it's no secret. Get a job 1553 01:34:18,240 --> 01:34:20,960 Speaker 1: for free, make yourself indispensable, the wind up paying you. 1554 01:34:21,360 --> 01:34:26,519 Speaker 1: UM and I just I very much had a one, 1555 01:34:26,680 --> 01:34:30,559 Speaker 1: five and ten year plan, and I just put you know, 1556 01:34:32,200 --> 01:34:34,799 Speaker 1: my dream wasn't a dream, it was a goal because 1557 01:34:34,840 --> 01:34:38,599 Speaker 1: I had actual steps leading up to what it would 1558 01:34:38,600 --> 01:34:41,760 Speaker 1: take to achieve my goal. I wanted to have a 1559 01:34:41,840 --> 01:34:47,679 Speaker 1: TV show that broadcast internationally talking about food and culture 1560 01:34:48,080 --> 01:34:51,080 Speaker 1: as a unifying element in a world that I felt 1561 01:34:51,120 --> 01:34:53,760 Speaker 1: we were only talking about the things that divided us. 1562 01:34:54,400 --> 01:34:59,639 Speaker 1: And I I, if you try to sell that show, 1563 01:34:59,680 --> 01:35:02,040 Speaker 1: no one's go to Bube. So I knew I had 1564 01:35:02,080 --> 01:35:03,600 Speaker 1: to invent a hook. So I sort of sold a 1565 01:35:03,640 --> 01:35:07,720 Speaker 1: Trojan Horse UM and I the hook that I created was, 1566 01:35:07,880 --> 01:35:10,439 Speaker 1: you know, fat white guy goes around the world, eats 1567 01:35:10,479 --> 01:35:12,960 Speaker 1: bugs and sort of exaggerating, but you you get where 1568 01:35:12,960 --> 01:35:16,880 Speaker 1: I'm going with this. And the network said, okay, great, okay, 1569 01:35:16,920 --> 01:35:19,559 Speaker 1: but a little bit slower. Which network? And this was 1570 01:35:19,640 --> 01:35:23,920 Speaker 1: literally your first pitch other than Stu Schwartz station. Yeah, 1571 01:35:24,080 --> 01:35:27,880 Speaker 1: well it wasn't my first, UM, but it kind of 1572 01:35:27,920 --> 01:35:32,120 Speaker 1: was my It was my only. Uh I, So I'm working. 1573 01:35:33,040 --> 01:35:36,559 Speaker 1: My goal was to be good enough at the TV station, 1574 01:35:36,600 --> 01:35:38,880 Speaker 1: the radio station, the magazine to put together a deck 1575 01:35:39,040 --> 01:35:42,519 Speaker 1: on myself. And with the TV work, I could put 1576 01:35:42,520 --> 01:35:45,879 Speaker 1: together a real and if I was doing food feature 1577 01:35:45,880 --> 01:35:48,439 Speaker 1: reporting and interviewing, and I was like, you know, Al 1578 01:35:48,520 --> 01:35:52,000 Speaker 1: Franken was had returned to Minnesota, was doing a radio 1579 01:35:52,040 --> 01:35:54,479 Speaker 1: show and writing these books. So his very first book 1580 01:35:54,520 --> 01:35:56,559 Speaker 1: came out and he came on and cooked with me. 1581 01:35:56,800 --> 01:35:59,200 Speaker 1: So I snipped that clip out and I went out 1582 01:35:59,200 --> 01:36:01,479 Speaker 1: to this farm and did a package. You know, because 1583 01:36:01,479 --> 01:36:04,160 Speaker 1: I learned, I created my own syllabus. I wanted to 1584 01:36:04,240 --> 01:36:06,720 Speaker 1: learn how to be in front of a camera, edit 1585 01:36:07,320 --> 01:36:10,400 Speaker 1: with a cameraman. I needed to know about cameras and 1586 01:36:10,520 --> 01:36:13,439 Speaker 1: lighting and I just had to learn the basic stuff 1587 01:36:13,439 --> 01:36:15,080 Speaker 1: of the business. And the only way to do that 1588 01:36:15,160 --> 01:36:17,400 Speaker 1: is do it in live local news. There's no other 1589 01:36:17,439 --> 01:36:20,840 Speaker 1: place to do it, right. And then I had enough 1590 01:36:20,960 --> 01:36:25,200 Speaker 1: stuff and I started trying to take meetings, um, but 1591 01:36:25,280 --> 01:36:26,760 Speaker 1: no one would meet with me. I was just a 1592 01:36:26,800 --> 01:36:30,679 Speaker 1: guy with an idea, right. Uh. But eventually I weaseled 1593 01:36:30,720 --> 01:36:34,559 Speaker 1: my way into enough doors and uh that I got 1594 01:36:34,600 --> 01:36:37,679 Speaker 1: the attention of some people here in town who were 1595 01:36:37,760 --> 01:36:42,400 Speaker 1: producing shows for h G TV local production companies, and 1596 01:36:42,439 --> 01:36:45,320 Speaker 1: so I became the in house chef. I was doing 1597 01:36:46,040 --> 01:36:50,160 Speaker 1: episodes a year on Typical Mary Ellen, which was an 1598 01:36:50,320 --> 01:36:54,719 Speaker 1: HDTV home tips show early days of h G and 1599 01:36:54,920 --> 01:36:59,639 Speaker 1: on a syndicated program called Rebecca's Garden. And so then 1600 01:36:59,680 --> 01:37:03,120 Speaker 1: I had clips of myself on nationally syndicated TV shows, 1601 01:37:03,920 --> 01:37:06,559 Speaker 1: and so that I took that and sent it around 1602 01:37:06,640 --> 01:37:12,760 Speaker 1: and eventually it caught the eye of a first year employee, 1603 01:37:13,120 --> 01:37:17,360 Speaker 1: the lowest person on the totem pole at Food Network, 1604 01:37:17,479 --> 01:37:21,040 Speaker 1: by the name of Alison Page. Alison Page wound up 1605 01:37:21,280 --> 01:37:24,680 Speaker 1: running Food Network twenty years later and is now the 1606 01:37:24,800 --> 01:37:29,439 Speaker 1: runs Magnolia Network, the partnership between Chip and Joanna Gaines 1607 01:37:29,560 --> 01:37:33,439 Speaker 1: and Discovery, and she is one of the smartest and 1608 01:37:34,400 --> 01:37:37,559 Speaker 1: best human beings in the TV business. Um, and I 1609 01:37:37,560 --> 01:37:41,280 Speaker 1: got to meet with her and uh, she said, I 1610 01:37:41,320 --> 01:37:43,320 Speaker 1: don't know if I can help. I know, I'm literally 1611 01:37:43,320 --> 01:37:45,040 Speaker 1: the person here was the least amount of juice. But 1612 01:37:45,080 --> 01:37:47,080 Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell them that you're great and you've got 1613 01:37:47,080 --> 01:37:49,679 Speaker 1: great tape. She did. She actually told them to try 1614 01:37:49,680 --> 01:37:52,680 Speaker 1: to do something with me, and it of course they 1615 01:37:52,680 --> 01:37:57,240 Speaker 1: said no, uh, but she did tell me. Uh, she 1616 01:37:57,280 --> 01:37:59,360 Speaker 1: gave me one great piece of advice. She said, look, 1617 01:37:59,600 --> 01:38:01,559 Speaker 1: if you come on Food Network, you're gonna be on 1618 01:38:01,600 --> 01:38:04,519 Speaker 1: Saturday mornings and there's gonna be there's twenty other shows 1619 01:38:04,560 --> 01:38:07,400 Speaker 1: being tried out then. And I said, well, my show's 1620 01:38:07,400 --> 01:38:09,559 Speaker 1: difference about Traveling is that she goes, yeah, why don't 1621 01:38:09,560 --> 01:38:13,439 Speaker 1: you talk to Travel Channel. Travel Channel is just hired 1622 01:38:13,479 --> 01:38:16,360 Speaker 1: a new president and they're trying to change and it 1623 01:38:16,479 --> 01:38:18,519 Speaker 1: really sort of hasn't been put out there a lot, 1624 01:38:19,760 --> 01:38:24,240 Speaker 1: but they're they're they're going away from unhosted programs and 1625 01:38:24,280 --> 01:38:28,280 Speaker 1: they're gonna start doing hosted shows. And that was radical 1626 01:38:28,360 --> 01:38:31,400 Speaker 1: Travel Channel at that time. This is about two years 1627 01:38:31,479 --> 01:38:34,880 Speaker 1: three years before uh, the first episode of Bizarre Foods. 1628 01:38:34,880 --> 01:38:38,759 Speaker 1: There was just like World's Best bathrooms, world sexiest beaches, 1629 01:38:38,880 --> 01:38:41,920 Speaker 1: world's you know, biggest houses, all that kind of stuff, 1630 01:38:41,960 --> 01:38:46,639 Speaker 1: all unhosted. Um. So I started knocking on the because 1631 01:38:46,640 --> 01:38:49,840 Speaker 1: I'd rather be one of my business gurus taught me 1632 01:38:49,880 --> 01:38:51,800 Speaker 1: a long time ago, better to be the only than 1633 01:38:51,840 --> 01:38:56,840 Speaker 1: be the best. So I decided that I wanted to 1634 01:38:56,880 --> 01:39:00,599 Speaker 1: be the only food guy on Travel Channel. I wound 1635 01:39:00,680 --> 01:39:03,559 Speaker 1: up being one year late by the time they bought 1636 01:39:03,600 --> 01:39:05,360 Speaker 1: the show, but it wound up being good for me 1637 01:39:05,400 --> 01:39:09,080 Speaker 1: because that other person was Anthony Bourdain. Um. But I 1638 01:39:09,120 --> 01:39:11,080 Speaker 1: went and I just all I do is I focused 1639 01:39:11,080 --> 01:39:14,200 Speaker 1: on Travel Channel. But at this point I'm a I'm 1640 01:39:14,400 --> 01:39:16,479 Speaker 1: known to people in the business because I'm on two 1641 01:39:16,600 --> 01:39:19,120 Speaker 1: nationally syndicated shows and sort of like I'm only doing 1642 01:39:19,200 --> 01:39:22,160 Speaker 1: five minutes an hour on someone else's show, but I'm 1643 01:39:22,160 --> 01:39:25,680 Speaker 1: a regular, right. So I finally got someone to meet 1644 01:39:25,720 --> 01:39:28,680 Speaker 1: with me a Travel Channel. I made a tape on 1645 01:39:28,760 --> 01:39:31,760 Speaker 1: my own. They didn't look at it for six or 1646 01:39:31,880 --> 01:39:35,559 Speaker 1: nine months. Meanwhile, they hire Samantha Brown to host a show. 1647 01:39:36,040 --> 01:39:38,840 Speaker 1: They buy Tony Show a Cooks Tour, put it on 1648 01:39:38,960 --> 01:39:42,320 Speaker 1: for a year, and then wind up doing uh no 1649 01:39:42,439 --> 01:39:49,840 Speaker 1: reservations with him, uh and uh one day uh. The 1650 01:39:49,840 --> 01:39:52,960 Speaker 1: the head of the network, uh, finds my disc in 1651 01:39:53,000 --> 01:39:57,120 Speaker 1: his briefcase. This is a true story, and he hadn't 1652 01:39:57,160 --> 01:39:59,800 Speaker 1: watched it, and he'd run out of content and others 1653 01:40:00,040 --> 01:40:01,479 Speaker 1: up to do when he was stuck in an airport 1654 01:40:01,520 --> 01:40:03,920 Speaker 1: and he slid it into his computer in the days 1655 01:40:04,000 --> 01:40:07,320 Speaker 1: when for those who are younger, discs actually could go 1656 01:40:07,360 --> 01:40:09,800 Speaker 1: into your computer in the side. There's a little port 1657 01:40:09,960 --> 01:40:13,320 Speaker 1: that opened up, and he watched it, and he really 1658 01:40:13,360 --> 01:40:15,960 Speaker 1: liked me and the show. And I got an invitation 1659 01:40:16,000 --> 01:40:20,840 Speaker 1: to go to Discovery headquarters in Bethesda, Uh, Maryland and 1660 01:40:20,920 --> 01:40:23,880 Speaker 1: pitch my idea to the head of the network, Pat 1661 01:40:23,960 --> 01:40:26,160 Speaker 1: Young and about ten other people in the room. Okay, 1662 01:40:26,200 --> 01:40:30,679 Speaker 1: just as an intermediary point, why Bizarre Foods. I didn't 1663 01:40:30,720 --> 01:40:32,600 Speaker 1: name it. I had a worse name for it. It 1664 01:40:32,640 --> 01:40:35,599 Speaker 1: would have died if I had been allowed to name 1665 01:40:35,640 --> 01:40:39,759 Speaker 1: the show. But the wee relevant of the moniker. Well 1666 01:40:40,000 --> 01:40:43,360 Speaker 1: what here here, here's what Here's what I came up with. 1667 01:40:44,240 --> 01:40:47,200 Speaker 1: I walked in that room and I told him, I said, 1668 01:40:47,320 --> 01:40:50,040 Speaker 1: you know, here's you know, the Wandering Spoon or whatever 1669 01:40:50,120 --> 01:40:52,599 Speaker 1: horrible show that I had. I'm going to go into 1670 01:40:52,600 --> 01:40:56,120 Speaker 1: countries and cultures and I'm going to tell stories through 1671 01:40:56,200 --> 01:40:59,680 Speaker 1: food about their culture to illuminate our commonalities and not 1672 01:40:59,760 --> 01:41:03,240 Speaker 1: dwell in our differences. I'm going to show viewers that 1673 01:41:03,439 --> 01:41:08,400 Speaker 1: through fun and entertaining food series, uh, we can learn 1674 01:41:08,479 --> 01:41:11,519 Speaker 1: to practice better patients, tolerance, and understanding with each other. 1675 01:41:11,720 --> 01:41:13,920 Speaker 1: Because at the end of the day, sitting down to 1676 01:41:13,960 --> 01:41:16,880 Speaker 1: a meal with a family in Chicago is identical to 1677 01:41:16,960 --> 01:41:19,799 Speaker 1: sitting down with tribal people in the middle of the 1678 01:41:19,840 --> 01:41:23,519 Speaker 1: African veld Um. It's just that what's being served at 1679 01:41:23,520 --> 01:41:28,080 Speaker 1: the table is different. And here's my point of difference. 1680 01:41:28,240 --> 01:41:31,880 Speaker 1: I'm not telling stories about chicken breasts or you know, 1681 01:41:32,960 --> 01:41:37,559 Speaker 1: fetucchini alfredo or you know, pork wantons. We're gonna be 1682 01:41:37,640 --> 01:41:42,320 Speaker 1: eating you know, grilled African word hog and scorpions and 1683 01:41:42,400 --> 01:41:45,479 Speaker 1: in but in the countries where they actually eat those things, 1684 01:41:46,720 --> 01:41:52,200 Speaker 1: question why why this fantastical, crazy food that sounds nuts 1685 01:41:52,600 --> 01:41:55,160 Speaker 1: And it's like, well, everyone loves to eat. So if 1686 01:41:55,200 --> 01:41:57,120 Speaker 1: we can accept that this is what's part of the 1687 01:41:57,160 --> 01:42:01,280 Speaker 1: regular diet in another part of the world. Uh, you know, 1688 01:42:01,320 --> 01:42:04,240 Speaker 1: one man's weird as another man's wonderful, then maybe we'll 1689 01:42:04,280 --> 01:42:08,280 Speaker 1: have some empathy and some level of understanding for a culture. 1690 01:42:08,400 --> 01:42:13,080 Speaker 1: I said, Americans inhale other cultures first and foremost through 1691 01:42:13,120 --> 01:42:17,280 Speaker 1: their mouths. Then we learned to love their music and 1692 01:42:17,320 --> 01:42:19,240 Speaker 1: their people and all the rest of that kind of stuff. 1693 01:42:19,280 --> 01:42:25,160 Speaker 1: But we love other cultures food first and foremost and uh. 1694 01:42:25,479 --> 01:42:27,120 Speaker 1: The next day, I got a call from the network 1695 01:42:27,160 --> 01:42:30,920 Speaker 1: and they said, if in its current format, we're gonna pass. 1696 01:42:31,880 --> 01:42:33,680 Speaker 1: And I said, well, what do you mean is his 1697 01:42:33,760 --> 01:42:41,560 Speaker 1: current format? And Pat Young said to me, it's entertainment educational. 1698 01:42:41,720 --> 01:42:43,519 Speaker 1: He says, but if you can figure out a way 1699 01:42:44,040 --> 01:42:51,200 Speaker 1: to come pitch it to me again where it's seventy entertainment, uh, education, 1700 01:42:51,720 --> 01:42:53,960 Speaker 1: I'll help you find a production company and I'll put 1701 01:42:54,000 --> 01:42:56,240 Speaker 1: this show on in a hundred and seventy five countries. 1702 01:42:56,760 --> 01:42:58,400 Speaker 1: He says, I think you're gonna be a big star. 1703 01:42:59,160 --> 01:43:04,360 Speaker 1: And I I went back to the drawing board and 1704 01:43:04,400 --> 01:43:08,719 Speaker 1: I kind of repositioned the whole thing and created six 1705 01:43:08,760 --> 01:43:11,200 Speaker 1: acts that were all different in this show. And he 1706 01:43:11,360 --> 01:43:14,200 Speaker 1: ended up giving me a list of approved production companies, 1707 01:43:14,240 --> 01:43:16,080 Speaker 1: some of whom were in Minnesota. I went to because 1708 01:43:16,120 --> 01:43:19,240 Speaker 1: I had never delivered a show before, so I went 1709 01:43:19,240 --> 01:43:22,200 Speaker 1: to this production company. They were thrilled to get a 1710 01:43:22,200 --> 01:43:27,240 Speaker 1: show that was essentially sold um. And when we went 1711 01:43:27,280 --> 01:43:30,160 Speaker 1: to shoot the pilot. They were still airing Cooks Tour 1712 01:43:30,320 --> 01:43:33,439 Speaker 1: reruns of Cooks Tour, Tony's first show. By the time 1713 01:43:33,479 --> 01:43:39,040 Speaker 1: my show delivered, he'd had a season on Travel Channel. UM, 1714 01:43:39,080 --> 01:43:43,720 Speaker 1: they put Pat Wanted Immersive Talent, and you know, it 1715 01:43:43,800 --> 01:43:48,200 Speaker 1: was just uh, Samantha Brown, Tony then me. He put 1716 01:43:48,240 --> 01:43:52,519 Speaker 1: Tony and I on Monday nights back to back, UM, 1717 01:43:52,600 --> 01:43:59,000 Speaker 1: and the ratings just exploded, and it was you know, 1718 01:43:59,200 --> 01:44:01,560 Speaker 1: the following year, I got my own night Tuesday, and 1719 01:44:01,600 --> 01:44:05,719 Speaker 1: they built shows around me. UM. I got very lucky. 1720 01:44:05,800 --> 01:44:08,240 Speaker 1: The show's you know, everything is ratings, as you know. 1721 01:44:08,600 --> 01:44:13,439 Speaker 1: So the premier comes out, we do okay. Second week, 1722 01:44:13,479 --> 01:44:15,080 Speaker 1: we go up a couple of tents of a point. 1723 01:44:15,600 --> 01:44:19,840 Speaker 1: Third week, third week we come out and we come 1724 01:44:19,840 --> 01:44:22,960 Speaker 1: out of the gate and we're a couple of tents 1725 01:44:23,080 --> 01:44:25,599 Speaker 1: below and I'm ready for them to cancel the show, 1726 01:44:25,880 --> 01:44:28,360 Speaker 1: fully ready for them to cancel the show. But it 1727 01:44:28,439 --> 01:44:32,000 Speaker 1: was the episode when we were in uh Ecuador and 1728 01:44:32,120 --> 01:44:36,559 Speaker 1: a shaman, the witch doctor, who is not supposed to 1729 01:44:36,560 --> 01:44:38,879 Speaker 1: be in the show. I had to beg the producer 1730 01:44:38,960 --> 01:44:42,960 Speaker 1: of the photographer to come into this witch doctor's residence 1731 01:44:43,000 --> 01:44:46,720 Speaker 1: with me to get an exorcism performed on my body 1732 01:44:47,040 --> 01:44:49,800 Speaker 1: and he spat up on me and he I mean, 1733 01:44:49,840 --> 01:44:52,800 Speaker 1: anyone can google this. It's it pops up right away 1734 01:44:52,840 --> 01:44:56,559 Speaker 1: and resimmering witch doctor Ecuador, and he spits on me. 1735 01:44:56,640 --> 01:44:58,720 Speaker 1: He lights me on fire. I'm naked by the way 1736 01:44:58,840 --> 01:45:03,160 Speaker 1: in his us he kills two guinea pigs by beating 1737 01:45:03,200 --> 01:45:05,360 Speaker 1: him on my chest. He throws all this stuff. He 1738 01:45:06,000 --> 01:45:08,280 Speaker 1: break out in hives because he beats me with this 1739 01:45:08,560 --> 01:45:14,960 Speaker 1: giant bunch of herbs and he Uh, I walk out 1740 01:45:14,960 --> 01:45:18,320 Speaker 1: of there and uh, I'd like to say something funny 1741 01:45:18,360 --> 01:45:20,559 Speaker 1: the camera. Well, I feel better, And it was a 1742 01:45:20,680 --> 01:45:23,160 Speaker 1: very very very very funny sort of moment in the 1743 01:45:23,200 --> 01:45:27,880 Speaker 1: history of the show. Um. Now, when it aired, the 1744 01:45:27,960 --> 01:45:29,920 Speaker 1: ratings the next day were not as good, and I'm 1745 01:45:29,920 --> 01:45:32,439 Speaker 1: ready for the thing to be canceled. But you can't 1746 01:45:32,479 --> 01:45:34,559 Speaker 1: remember I'm on Monday nights, right, So the next day 1747 01:45:34,640 --> 01:45:37,160 Speaker 1: was Tuesday, we get the ratings. Wednesday morning, I get 1748 01:45:37,160 --> 01:45:40,240 Speaker 1: a call from the booker at the tonight show. Uh, 1749 01:45:40,439 --> 01:45:43,519 Speaker 1: we've we saw this scene and we showed it to 1750 01:45:43,640 --> 01:45:46,200 Speaker 1: Jay and Jay would like you to be on the 1751 01:45:46,240 --> 01:45:51,600 Speaker 1: show Friday night. And I literally I said, you know, 1752 01:45:52,080 --> 01:45:54,599 Speaker 1: you know, Michael stopped I thought it was my friend 1753 01:45:54,640 --> 01:45:59,880 Speaker 1: pulling my leg and I flew out Thursday night. Friday night, 1754 01:46:00,040 --> 01:46:03,800 Speaker 1: I was on the Tonight Show. UH and Jay we 1755 01:46:03,800 --> 01:46:06,439 Speaker 1: we had a great time and Jay said, You've got 1756 01:46:06,439 --> 01:46:10,160 Speaker 1: to come back. We love having you. Uh. And the 1757 01:46:10,200 --> 01:46:15,960 Speaker 1: next week the ratings quadrupled. Quinn tuppled because those were 1758 01:46:15,960 --> 01:46:18,479 Speaker 1: the days when your very first question that you asked me, 1759 01:46:18,840 --> 01:46:20,559 Speaker 1: what do you what? Where do you need to be 1760 01:46:20,760 --> 01:46:24,240 Speaker 1: to spread your message? In those days, the Tonight Show 1761 01:46:24,640 --> 01:46:27,360 Speaker 1: was the most watched thing other than the Super Bowl 1762 01:46:27,360 --> 01:46:31,400 Speaker 1: and Saturday Night Live, Right, And um, I wound up 1763 01:46:31,439 --> 01:46:33,200 Speaker 1: doing the Tonight Show four or five times over the 1764 01:46:33,280 --> 01:46:36,960 Speaker 1: next two or three years. And UM, I think without 1765 01:46:37,080 --> 01:46:40,200 Speaker 1: that invitation from j the show, who knows who would 1766 01:46:40,200 --> 01:46:42,080 Speaker 1: have happened. It could have found an audience or not. 1767 01:46:42,160 --> 01:46:45,400 Speaker 1: But all I know is thanks to that that witch 1768 01:46:45,439 --> 01:46:49,360 Speaker 1: doctor in Ecuador, I had a great year after that exorcism. 1769 01:46:49,400 --> 01:46:53,360 Speaker 1: I mean it was good. Uh. And the moral of 1770 01:46:53,400 --> 01:46:56,479 Speaker 1: the story is, anytime you can have an exorcism in 1771 01:46:56,560 --> 01:47:00,559 Speaker 1: Oda Vallo, Ecuador, in the Central Highlands, do it the 1772 01:47:00,600 --> 01:47:05,720 Speaker 1: brew harrows. They're the mail which is have incredible power. Um. 1773 01:47:05,760 --> 01:47:08,080 Speaker 1: And it was successful. But I also to your point, 1774 01:47:08,680 --> 01:47:13,800 Speaker 1: had a desire to start multiple businesses and do multiple 1775 01:47:13,920 --> 01:47:17,240 Speaker 1: things with the gifts that I had been given. UM. 1776 01:47:17,840 --> 01:47:21,320 Speaker 1: I have a marketing company of a production company that's 1777 01:47:21,360 --> 01:47:23,479 Speaker 1: now eight years old that makes TV for me and 1778 01:47:23,520 --> 01:47:27,519 Speaker 1: lots of other people, that's successful hospitality company, and I've 1779 01:47:27,800 --> 01:47:31,080 Speaker 1: you know, I've written books, and I've written for magazines, 1780 01:47:31,120 --> 01:47:33,680 Speaker 1: and I've done all the things that you're supposed to 1781 01:47:33,720 --> 01:47:36,800 Speaker 1: do in in my career, mostly because it's stuff that 1782 01:47:36,840 --> 01:47:38,599 Speaker 1: I want to do that has fun, but it also 1783 01:47:38,640 --> 01:47:41,599 Speaker 1: has to have a service element to it. We we 1784 01:47:41,680 --> 01:47:45,120 Speaker 1: believe very seriously at our companies that everything has to 1785 01:47:45,160 --> 01:47:48,400 Speaker 1: leave the world a better place, otherwise we're not going 1786 01:47:48,439 --> 01:47:51,120 Speaker 1: to do it. That that feeling has become stronger over 1787 01:47:51,160 --> 01:47:52,880 Speaker 1: the last ten years than it was the first ten 1788 01:47:53,000 --> 01:47:57,479 Speaker 1: years when we started um Our Companies. Uh, my first 1789 01:47:57,520 --> 01:48:01,080 Speaker 1: company is still alive part of this triad of groups 1790 01:48:01,120 --> 01:48:04,559 Speaker 1: and we're nineteen years old. UM it's a very very 1791 01:48:04,600 --> 01:48:08,680 Speaker 1: powerful statement. I think about what can happen when you 1792 01:48:08,800 --> 01:48:13,719 Speaker 1: treat human beings with dignity and respect. UM. I I 1793 01:48:13,800 --> 01:48:18,120 Speaker 1: was an unredeemable user of people and taker of things 1794 01:48:18,160 --> 01:48:23,840 Speaker 1: when I arrived in Minnesota January and the community here, 1795 01:48:23,960 --> 01:48:28,320 Speaker 1: loved me up and gave me, uh a little bit 1796 01:48:28,320 --> 01:48:30,880 Speaker 1: of respect and a little bit of dignity even when 1797 01:48:30,920 --> 01:48:34,160 Speaker 1: I didn't deserve it, and they watered me like a plant. 1798 01:48:34,200 --> 01:48:38,000 Speaker 1: And I think this is why human beings need to 1799 01:48:38,000 --> 01:48:40,880 Speaker 1: be treated better in this country, because there's a million 1800 01:48:40,960 --> 01:48:44,840 Speaker 1: versions of me out there that they're they're sleeping on corners, 1801 01:48:44,880 --> 01:48:48,680 Speaker 1: they're in homeless shelters, they're in public hospitals, they're in 1802 01:48:48,760 --> 01:48:51,559 Speaker 1: jails and institutions, and we need to take better care 1803 01:48:51,600 --> 01:48:54,439 Speaker 1: of them because our society would be better off if 1804 01:48:54,479 --> 01:48:57,080 Speaker 1: we actually love them up and gave them the dignity 1805 01:48:57,120 --> 01:49:01,120 Speaker 1: and respect they needed to get well. Uh Um. It's 1806 01:49:01,120 --> 01:49:03,519 Speaker 1: why I'm proud is when people say what's the what's 1807 01:49:03,560 --> 01:49:05,400 Speaker 1: the most important thing you do? It's like I'm I'm 1808 01:49:05,560 --> 01:49:07,599 Speaker 1: on the board of a group of New York called 1809 01:49:07,680 --> 01:49:10,760 Speaker 1: Services for the Underserved, where we're able to take care 1810 01:49:10,760 --> 01:49:13,599 Speaker 1: of thirty five thousand New Yorkers that no other agency 1811 01:49:13,640 --> 01:49:16,519 Speaker 1: will take care of. Those are the things that that 1812 01:49:16,720 --> 01:49:19,479 Speaker 1: I'm proud of. St of I. I love having an 1813 01:49:19,479 --> 01:49:22,320 Speaker 1: Emmy on the mantel in the house. I love having, 1814 01:49:22,880 --> 01:49:25,760 Speaker 1: you know, all the James Beard Awards and all the 1815 01:49:25,760 --> 01:49:28,320 Speaker 1: other stuff that I have, and you know, I turn 1816 01:49:28,360 --> 01:49:30,920 Speaker 1: on the TV and there I am and a bunch 1817 01:49:30,960 --> 01:49:35,000 Speaker 1: of different streamers or Magnolia or whatever. That's great, but 1818 01:49:35,120 --> 01:49:37,800 Speaker 1: it pales in comparison to all the other stuff that 1819 01:49:37,840 --> 01:49:40,960 Speaker 1: I do, because that's the stuff that makes me feel 1820 01:49:41,520 --> 01:49:45,400 Speaker 1: like I'm actually of this world and not taking from 1821 01:49:45,400 --> 01:49:54,840 Speaker 1: this world. Okay, I only have a few minutes left, 1822 01:49:54,880 --> 01:49:58,599 Speaker 1: so let's do lightning round quick answers. What's your goal now? 1823 01:49:59,080 --> 01:50:02,320 Speaker 1: Change more public policy and laws in America to make 1824 01:50:02,360 --> 01:50:09,480 Speaker 1: it easier for people uh to get fed, take themselves 1825 01:50:09,560 --> 01:50:16,000 Speaker 1: out of the hunger category that they're in, and help 1826 01:50:16,120 --> 01:50:19,760 Speaker 1: to remake our food system in America. It's a small goal. 1827 01:50:20,160 --> 01:50:24,960 Speaker 1: You're divorced. And to what degree did your lifestyle terms 1828 01:50:25,000 --> 01:50:27,400 Speaker 1: to travel around the world contribute to that? And can 1829 01:50:27,479 --> 01:50:30,640 Speaker 1: people in this world, in the food world, certainly in 1830 01:50:30,680 --> 01:50:34,600 Speaker 1: the food travel world, can they maintain a healthy relationship? No, 1831 01:50:36,720 --> 01:50:38,760 Speaker 1: I think you need to. I think you need to 1832 01:50:38,840 --> 01:50:43,439 Speaker 1: change things in your life. If you want your relationships 1833 01:50:44,240 --> 01:50:47,320 Speaker 1: to prosper, you need to invest in them and you 1834 01:50:47,360 --> 01:50:51,920 Speaker 1: need to do the work. Um, you can't be I 1835 01:50:51,960 --> 01:50:56,280 Speaker 1: mean nowadays we can play words with friends, so you 1836 01:50:56,320 --> 01:50:59,160 Speaker 1: know you can you play scrabble from anywhere in the world. Sure, 1837 01:50:59,280 --> 01:51:02,559 Speaker 1: sure you can, there's an app for that. Uh, all 1838 01:51:02,640 --> 01:51:05,519 Speaker 1: the face times in the world can't help you with 1839 01:51:05,600 --> 01:51:08,000 Speaker 1: your primary relationships. You have to put the work in. 1840 01:51:08,960 --> 01:51:11,360 Speaker 1: Where have you not been that you want to go 1841 01:51:11,479 --> 01:51:16,680 Speaker 1: to Czechoslovakia? And why? Why? Is so ready an answer? 1842 01:51:16,720 --> 01:51:18,200 Speaker 1: And why have you not been? And why do you 1843 01:51:18,200 --> 01:51:21,439 Speaker 1: want to go? I've been to a hundred and seventy 1844 01:51:21,439 --> 01:51:24,000 Speaker 1: seven countries, and I'm not talking about passing through. I 1845 01:51:24,000 --> 01:51:28,240 Speaker 1: mean actually been, uh, spend time there. I've been to 1846 01:51:28,360 --> 01:51:31,360 Speaker 1: China eighteen times. I've never been there for less than 1847 01:51:31,400 --> 01:51:34,400 Speaker 1: two weeks. I've never seen the Great Wall. And the 1848 01:51:34,439 --> 01:51:36,640 Speaker 1: reason is that I go in and I and I 1849 01:51:36,720 --> 01:51:39,680 Speaker 1: haven't experienced there that no one else gets to have. 1850 01:51:40,240 --> 01:51:44,839 Speaker 1: You know, I go to Botswana. I saw one square 1851 01:51:44,920 --> 01:51:48,000 Speaker 1: mile of that country because I lived with the Juntoasi, 1852 01:51:48,439 --> 01:51:51,040 Speaker 1: a protected tribe, the tribe from the movie The Gods 1853 01:51:51,120 --> 01:51:53,880 Speaker 1: must be Crazy. No one has been allowed to live 1854 01:51:53,920 --> 01:51:58,960 Speaker 1: with them for a week in forty years except me. Um, 1855 01:52:00,280 --> 01:52:07,479 Speaker 1: you know, you know there's I nothing can come to 1856 01:52:07,479 --> 01:52:09,519 Speaker 1: measure that. But I'd love to go back to Box 1857 01:52:09,520 --> 01:52:11,639 Speaker 1: want and see the rest of this amazing country. I'd 1858 01:52:11,640 --> 01:52:13,559 Speaker 1: love to go to China's a tourist and actually see 1859 01:52:13,600 --> 01:52:15,439 Speaker 1: some of the sights and sounds and smells that I 1860 01:52:15,520 --> 01:52:18,200 Speaker 1: never saw. Um. I'd like to go back to some 1861 01:52:18,240 --> 01:52:20,080 Speaker 1: of the countries I've only been to once that were 1862 01:52:20,080 --> 01:52:22,960 Speaker 1: really awesome. I actually I've been to Croatia twice. I 1863 01:52:22,960 --> 01:52:24,960 Speaker 1: wish I could go to Croatia every year. It's an 1864 01:52:25,000 --> 01:52:29,760 Speaker 1: incredible country with amazing people. Um, killer food, beautiful, But 1865 01:52:31,600 --> 01:52:34,760 Speaker 1: never been there, just just scheduling and a couple of 1866 01:52:34,800 --> 01:52:36,960 Speaker 1: times that it was on the docket to go shoot there, 1867 01:52:37,280 --> 01:52:39,920 Speaker 1: some other talent was going there and they decided we 1868 01:52:39,960 --> 01:52:42,040 Speaker 1: want zimmer and somewhere else. And you know, you don't 1869 01:52:42,040 --> 01:52:45,919 Speaker 1: get everything you want, even if you're successful in this industry, 1870 01:52:46,000 --> 01:52:48,120 Speaker 1: so a lot of times I had to take a 1871 01:52:48,120 --> 01:52:51,680 Speaker 1: back seat to somebody else. Um. And just this is 1872 01:52:51,720 --> 01:52:54,120 Speaker 1: crazy that I've been to a hundred seventy seven countries 1873 01:52:54,200 --> 01:52:56,280 Speaker 1: and and someone like me has never been to Prague 1874 01:52:56,479 --> 01:52:59,600 Speaker 1: or any of Czechoslovakia, Czech Republic. I mean, it's just 1875 01:53:00,800 --> 01:53:03,560 Speaker 1: so a lot of people want to travel where ultimately 1876 01:53:03,600 --> 01:53:06,599 Speaker 1: it's somewhat familiar. They go to the UK, they speak English. 1877 01:53:06,640 --> 01:53:09,680 Speaker 1: My experiences I've had the best times in places like 1878 01:53:09,760 --> 01:53:13,800 Speaker 1: bo Guitar and Mumbai. Well, mum by the speaking to 1879 01:53:14,400 --> 01:53:18,200 Speaker 1: But you know, for me, just like with food, the 1880 01:53:18,360 --> 01:53:20,600 Speaker 1: crazier if they don't speak English. The more out of 1881 01:53:20,640 --> 01:53:24,560 Speaker 1: place I am, the better I enjoy it. How about you, 1882 01:53:24,560 --> 01:53:26,320 Speaker 1: you want to go to an exotic place where your 1883 01:53:26,400 --> 01:53:28,439 Speaker 1: number or you want to go with her some comfort. 1884 01:53:29,280 --> 01:53:32,280 Speaker 1: I will double down on that actually and turn it 1885 01:53:32,320 --> 01:53:34,400 Speaker 1: a little bit around. But I bet you can relate 1886 01:53:34,439 --> 01:53:37,040 Speaker 1: to it. My guess is knowing you, having read so 1887 01:53:37,120 --> 01:53:39,360 Speaker 1: much of what you've written and listening to your podcast, 1888 01:53:40,240 --> 01:53:42,600 Speaker 1: I get the feeling you'll really relate to this. I 1889 01:53:42,640 --> 01:53:46,040 Speaker 1: am the best version of myself when I'm traveling in 1890 01:53:46,080 --> 01:53:49,519 Speaker 1: a place, and I'm the best version of the best 1891 01:53:49,640 --> 01:53:52,920 Speaker 1: version of myself when I'm challenged the most. When I'm 1892 01:53:52,920 --> 01:53:56,679 Speaker 1: out of my comfort zone, I take more risks. I'm 1893 01:53:56,840 --> 01:54:00,120 Speaker 1: I'm less risk averse, I asked more questions. I'm not 1894 01:54:00,200 --> 01:54:03,920 Speaker 1: a smarty pants. I don't pretend. I like myself best 1895 01:54:04,360 --> 01:54:08,040 Speaker 1: when I have a bag over my shoulder and I'm 1896 01:54:08,120 --> 01:54:12,280 Speaker 1: walking across Ethiopia. That's the best version of me there is. 1897 01:54:12,920 --> 01:54:16,600 Speaker 1: I am curious, I am friendly, I am alert, I 1898 01:54:16,640 --> 01:54:21,439 Speaker 1: am open to everything. I'm teachable, I am spontaneous, I 1899 01:54:21,479 --> 01:54:23,880 Speaker 1: am all the things I want to be in my life. 1900 01:54:24,040 --> 01:54:27,479 Speaker 1: I am that person because of the challenges of travel 1901 01:54:27,840 --> 01:54:34,080 Speaker 1: is transformative. Travel is transformative. So consequently, what's amazing about 1902 01:54:34,080 --> 01:54:36,120 Speaker 1: it is that you can then export some of that 1903 01:54:36,200 --> 01:54:41,120 Speaker 1: back into your life in America. Right, So, like you 1904 01:54:41,440 --> 01:54:45,000 Speaker 1: in those places you mentioned, you were forced to do 1905 01:54:45,080 --> 01:54:47,600 Speaker 1: some new things, and you come back and changed human beings, 1906 01:54:47,600 --> 01:54:50,760 Speaker 1: sometimes in small ways, sometimes in big impactful ways, but 1907 01:54:50,880 --> 01:54:57,480 Speaker 1: you're changed. Travel is transformative. Okay, what are your favorite 1908 01:54:57,560 --> 01:55:04,040 Speaker 1: one or two cuisines? You know there's a song by 1909 01:55:04,560 --> 01:55:07,160 Speaker 1: Sunday Afternoon by the Kings and Ray Davis. You know, 1910 01:55:07,360 --> 01:55:09,680 Speaker 1: give me two good reasons why I ought to stay. 1911 01:55:09,760 --> 01:55:12,080 Speaker 1: So I usually say too, but you know I'm not 1912 01:55:12,120 --> 01:55:14,480 Speaker 1: holding you to the ones that you know, Hey, you 1913 01:55:14,480 --> 01:55:16,440 Speaker 1: gotta eat this cuisine for the rest of your life. 1914 01:55:17,040 --> 01:55:21,400 Speaker 1: I'll answer it this way. The two most sophisticated cuisines 1915 01:55:21,480 --> 01:55:26,880 Speaker 1: for depth and breadth, for variety of ingredients, for variety 1916 01:55:26,920 --> 01:55:33,240 Speaker 1: of techniques, for uh, just just for just the deepest 1917 01:55:33,280 --> 01:55:35,280 Speaker 1: and the widest. And I think they are the two 1918 01:55:35,360 --> 01:55:41,240 Speaker 1: cuisines that sit atop the culinary in culinary Valhalla, are 1919 01:55:41,840 --> 01:55:47,000 Speaker 1: Chinese cuisine and Mexican cuisine. Now from that comes a 1920 01:55:47,040 --> 01:55:50,440 Speaker 1: lot of stuff. So if you go down to southeastern China, 1921 01:55:50,520 --> 01:55:53,960 Speaker 1: you're gonna eat fusion cuisine that has a lot of 1922 01:55:54,040 --> 01:55:57,560 Speaker 1: tie and vietnames. E vibe to it right, with fresh 1923 01:55:57,640 --> 01:56:00,680 Speaker 1: chilies and garlic and their version of fish sauce and 1924 01:56:00,760 --> 01:56:03,920 Speaker 1: things like that. Now, look, do I love the beauty 1925 01:56:03,920 --> 01:56:07,480 Speaker 1: and simplicity of Japanese cuisine? And Japanese cuisine is always 1926 01:56:07,480 --> 01:56:11,120 Speaker 1: the easy answer, or Italian cuisine. Every time I'm in France, 1927 01:56:11,240 --> 01:56:13,360 Speaker 1: I turned to whoever I'm traveling with, I'm going you 1928 01:56:13,400 --> 01:56:16,040 Speaker 1: know something, as cliches as it is, French food is 1929 01:56:16,040 --> 01:56:18,960 Speaker 1: fucking amazing. And it is. But at the end of 1930 01:56:18,960 --> 01:56:21,400 Speaker 1: the day, when I'm really being intellectual about it and 1931 01:56:21,400 --> 01:56:24,520 Speaker 1: I'm measuring all the strengths and weaknesses, I would rather 1932 01:56:24,680 --> 01:56:29,400 Speaker 1: take from high to low, bottom to top, side to side. 1933 01:56:30,160 --> 01:56:33,520 Speaker 1: Chinese and Mexican. I think they are the two cuisines 1934 01:56:33,640 --> 01:56:38,080 Speaker 1: that are the most complex in every measurable way. Uh 1935 01:56:38,280 --> 01:56:41,200 Speaker 1: we can. And I've eaten enough around the world to 1936 01:56:41,280 --> 01:56:45,800 Speaker 1: have some some perspective on that question. Eat out or 1937 01:56:45,840 --> 01:56:51,240 Speaker 1: stay home? Stay home? Just because you travel so much, No, 1938 01:56:51,440 --> 01:56:55,040 Speaker 1: I like to stay home and eat. Uh. Here's here's 1939 01:56:55,040 --> 01:56:58,720 Speaker 1: the difference I think from professional chefs. Um and certainly 1940 01:56:58,800 --> 01:57:02,600 Speaker 1: you know, I'm sixty. I've cooking for for money since 1941 01:57:02,640 --> 01:57:05,840 Speaker 1: I was fourteen, almost with you know, except for a 1942 01:57:05,840 --> 01:57:09,440 Speaker 1: couple of times. Here they're almost an unbroken line. Um, 1943 01:57:09,520 --> 01:57:12,320 Speaker 1: And I've had the experience of you know, I mean 1944 01:57:12,440 --> 01:57:16,080 Speaker 1: the food experiences that I've had eating out and traveling, 1945 01:57:16,120 --> 01:57:18,720 Speaker 1: I would put up against anyone's. I'm not sure the 1946 01:57:18,720 --> 01:57:21,960 Speaker 1: way that TV is no longer made in in oh 1947 01:57:21,960 --> 01:57:24,720 Speaker 1: will buy thirty or forty more episodes they buy eight. 1948 01:57:25,000 --> 01:57:27,400 Speaker 1: In the age of the streamer, they're buying eights and twelves. 1949 01:57:27,720 --> 01:57:30,400 Speaker 1: I don't think anyone will ever travel the world and 1950 01:57:30,520 --> 01:57:33,560 Speaker 1: eat the way Tony and I have had the opportunity 1951 01:57:33,600 --> 01:57:35,800 Speaker 1: to when we were doing what we were doing at 1952 01:57:35,920 --> 01:57:38,360 Speaker 1: Travel Channel. When we were doing that, I just don't 1953 01:57:38,400 --> 01:57:44,520 Speaker 1: I don't think it will ever happen again. Um and I. 1954 01:57:44,520 --> 01:57:47,840 Speaker 1: I love restaurants. I love the feeling of being in restaurants. 1955 01:57:47,920 --> 01:57:52,560 Speaker 1: I love seeing what other chefs are doing. But at 1956 01:57:52,600 --> 01:57:55,400 Speaker 1: the end of the day, and maybe it's more about 1957 01:57:55,600 --> 01:57:59,760 Speaker 1: the age that I am, Um, I have the ability 1958 01:57:59,760 --> 01:58:01,920 Speaker 1: to look so many different things. There's so many things 1959 01:58:01,960 --> 01:58:04,920 Speaker 1: I want to cook. I'm now it's switched around. Instead 1960 01:58:04,960 --> 01:58:08,720 Speaker 1: of like I have to fly to Hong Kong to 1961 01:58:08,920 --> 01:58:13,280 Speaker 1: eat at restaurant X. Instead of that, I'm like, I 1962 01:58:13,360 --> 01:58:16,040 Speaker 1: have to be able to get these ingredients so I 1963 01:58:16,080 --> 01:58:20,360 Speaker 1: can recreate this dish or series of dishes from this book, 1964 01:58:20,400 --> 01:58:23,160 Speaker 1: from this restaurant in Scandinavia that I've been dying to 1965 01:58:23,320 --> 01:58:26,920 Speaker 1: And I where am I gonna find baby seagulls legally 1966 01:58:26,960 --> 01:58:29,280 Speaker 1: in America? This is gonna be a toughie, but I 1967 01:58:29,320 --> 01:58:31,920 Speaker 1: gotta find him. Has got to recreate this dish. That 1968 01:58:32,160 --> 01:58:38,160 Speaker 1: is the stuff that excites me. Uh now, okay, hey 1969 01:58:38,600 --> 01:58:42,240 Speaker 1: was norma as good as the rep B. What are 1970 01:58:42,240 --> 01:58:46,800 Speaker 1: the two best restaurants you've ever been to? For you? Uh? 1971 01:58:47,080 --> 01:58:52,120 Speaker 1: Noma was because and is because not only is Renny 1972 01:58:52,200 --> 01:58:57,360 Speaker 1: Riseeppe is as phenomenal an executor of food. If you 1973 01:58:57,400 --> 01:58:59,800 Speaker 1: asked him to make you real scalapini, he would do 1974 01:58:59,840 --> 01:59:02,840 Speaker 1: with lawlessly. He has that skill set. It's like you've 1975 01:59:02,880 --> 01:59:06,120 Speaker 1: studied art. It's like the impressionists. You know, mon A 1976 01:59:06,240 --> 01:59:08,120 Speaker 1: man A, Sir, all those folks. They all went to 1977 01:59:08,160 --> 01:59:11,760 Speaker 1: the Accold, to Bozar and then they rejected it. They 1978 01:59:11,800 --> 01:59:14,560 Speaker 1: could literally paint a hand as if you were looking 1979 01:59:14,600 --> 01:59:17,480 Speaker 1: at a photograph, even though photographs haven't been invented. When 1980 01:59:17,480 --> 01:59:22,160 Speaker 1: they were paying the they once you can create a 1981 01:59:22,240 --> 01:59:24,760 Speaker 1: hand that looks like it does in real life, then 1982 01:59:24,800 --> 01:59:27,840 Speaker 1: you can create your impression of one. So these people 1983 01:59:27,880 --> 01:59:31,400 Speaker 1: who are doing molecular gastronomy or very progressive cuisine or 1984 01:59:31,760 --> 01:59:35,640 Speaker 1: cuisines that we see as being way out there, um, 1985 01:59:36,000 --> 01:59:39,800 Speaker 1: have the culinary skill set to do anything. They are 1986 01:59:40,040 --> 01:59:44,440 Speaker 1: masters of technique and craftspeople and so yes, Noma was. 1987 01:59:44,520 --> 01:59:46,720 Speaker 1: But it was also progressive in the sense that they 1988 01:59:46,720 --> 01:59:49,880 Speaker 1: were using ingredients from a part of the world that 1989 01:59:50,360 --> 01:59:55,360 Speaker 1: wasn't the southeastern United States or Mexico or Vietnamena where 1990 01:59:55,360 --> 01:59:57,840 Speaker 1: you can get so many things and everything grows and 1991 01:59:57,840 --> 02:00:00,960 Speaker 1: it's incredibly fertile. They were were working with a limited 1992 02:00:01,000 --> 02:00:05,120 Speaker 1: number of ingredients, doing a limited number of things. Um. 1993 02:00:05,160 --> 02:00:08,120 Speaker 1: So the answer is yes, it was two best meals 1994 02:00:08,200 --> 02:00:15,520 Speaker 1: of my life. Uh Well, prow house seafood house um 1995 02:00:15,600 --> 02:00:20,640 Speaker 1: off an island uh In at the bottom of the 1996 02:00:20,720 --> 02:00:25,920 Speaker 1: Filipino island chain just north of Borachai. Uh. You park 1997 02:00:26,000 --> 02:00:29,360 Speaker 1: your car in a field and you walk down a 1998 02:00:29,400 --> 02:00:33,480 Speaker 1: series of planks laid on logs in the mud. Thank God, 1999 02:00:33,560 --> 02:00:36,280 Speaker 1: the tide goes out at night when they're open, because 2000 02:00:36,280 --> 02:00:38,320 Speaker 1: the only way to walk to the restaurant, which is 2001 02:00:38,360 --> 02:00:44,200 Speaker 1: a hut in the middle of a tidal estuary, and 2002 02:00:44,240 --> 02:00:47,440 Speaker 1: the fishermen come by and push food and fish and 2003 02:00:47,560 --> 02:00:49,360 Speaker 1: vegetables up through a hole in the middle of the 2004 02:00:49,400 --> 02:00:53,120 Speaker 1: restaurants the whole middle of restaurant, like huge bunches of bananas. 2005 02:00:53,160 --> 02:00:55,360 Speaker 1: They were making a banana drink that night with ice 2006 02:00:55,920 --> 02:00:58,600 Speaker 1: that I had like sixteen of. But all the fish 2007 02:00:58,600 --> 02:01:00,680 Speaker 1: in the shrimp they you know, it's whatever the chef 2008 02:01:00,720 --> 02:01:03,440 Speaker 1: is making, and he makes batches this stuff and spreads 2009 02:01:03,480 --> 02:01:06,520 Speaker 1: it around every table. We probably had thirty seafood courses 2010 02:01:06,560 --> 02:01:08,920 Speaker 1: that night. Once you're there, you're there. You can stay 2011 02:01:09,000 --> 02:01:11,600 Speaker 1: for five hours, six hours if you like, or you 2012 02:01:11,600 --> 02:01:13,400 Speaker 1: can just walk back to your car at any point 2013 02:01:13,440 --> 02:01:16,680 Speaker 1: in time and pay your bill. Um. I wrote about 2014 02:01:16,680 --> 02:01:19,400 Speaker 1: it in my first book, UH one of the most 2015 02:01:19,400 --> 02:01:23,720 Speaker 1: transcendent food experiences of my life. UM. And then the 2016 02:01:23,880 --> 02:01:31,120 Speaker 1: second best one was at a um Uh, a little 2017 02:01:31,160 --> 02:01:35,440 Speaker 1: az tech village about two hours north of Mexico, two 2018 02:01:35,440 --> 02:01:41,040 Speaker 1: hours sorry south of Mexico City, um a town where 2019 02:01:42,600 --> 02:01:46,360 Speaker 1: there's a large number of people of ast Aztec descent 2020 02:01:47,000 --> 02:01:52,080 Speaker 1: still cooking pre contact, pre colonial food and still speaking 2021 02:01:52,200 --> 02:01:54,720 Speaker 1: what is essentially a dead language. But it's not dead 2022 02:01:54,760 --> 02:01:57,600 Speaker 1: because there's enough of them speaking it. But it's the 2023 02:01:57,720 --> 02:01:59,840 Speaker 1: last place to get a taste of history where these 2024 02:02:00,000 --> 02:02:02,440 Speaker 1: people that the oral tradition has passed these foods down. 2025 02:02:02,440 --> 02:02:04,480 Speaker 1: And there's a small, little six seat restaurant in the 2026 02:02:04,520 --> 02:02:09,160 Speaker 1: market there that a husband and wife run. Uh. That, 2027 02:02:09,280 --> 02:02:12,760 Speaker 1: to my mind, is still the one of the top 2028 02:02:12,840 --> 02:02:15,040 Speaker 1: meals that I've ever had in my life. I find 2029 02:02:15,040 --> 02:02:17,280 Speaker 1: it interesting when I think of that question, just without 2030 02:02:17,360 --> 02:02:20,600 Speaker 1: thinking about it. It's two restaurants that are as far 2031 02:02:20,680 --> 02:02:24,000 Speaker 1: off the grid and as far away from anything resembling 2032 02:02:24,200 --> 02:02:28,680 Speaker 1: tablecloths and silverware as anything I could think of. I think, 2033 02:02:28,720 --> 02:02:33,200 Speaker 1: the more stuff you have. Uh, sometimes we forget that 2034 02:02:33,280 --> 02:02:37,360 Speaker 1: food comes from the heart, not from the head. And 2035 02:02:38,360 --> 02:02:42,040 Speaker 1: those two food experiences were ones that I consider them 2036 02:02:42,040 --> 02:02:45,280 Speaker 1: a restaurant because number one, there was a financial transaction, 2037 02:02:45,320 --> 02:02:48,320 Speaker 1: but more importantly, there was an emotional transaction. I don't 2038 02:02:48,320 --> 02:02:52,200 Speaker 1: believe the history of restaurants by definition, is one that 2039 02:02:52,240 --> 02:02:54,680 Speaker 1: starts with a financial transaction. I believe it starts with 2040 02:02:54,760 --> 02:03:00,520 Speaker 1: a a an emotional transaction. Um, I think restaurants are 2041 02:03:00,600 --> 02:03:04,080 Speaker 1: thousands of years old, not hundreds as other historians think. 2042 02:03:04,160 --> 02:03:08,440 Speaker 1: And my favorite thing to argue them, um, and both 2043 02:03:08,440 --> 02:03:16,280 Speaker 1: of those restaurants gave me an emotional transaction experience that 2044 02:03:16,480 --> 02:03:19,280 Speaker 1: I think we're superior to anything else I've ever had, 2045 02:03:19,840 --> 02:03:22,240 Speaker 1: be it a temple of gastronomy or some great street 2046 02:03:22,240 --> 02:03:25,440 Speaker 1: food place or whatever they were. They price stand above 2047 02:03:25,480 --> 02:03:27,560 Speaker 1: and beyond all the others. Is the two best meals 2048 02:03:27,560 --> 02:03:30,680 Speaker 1: of my life. Okay, going back to the beginning, let's 2049 02:03:30,720 --> 02:03:35,640 Speaker 1: say money was no object. You know, the billionaires coffers 2050 02:03:35,680 --> 02:03:39,520 Speaker 1: were open. Do you believe this is fantasy land that 2051 02:03:40,120 --> 02:03:44,680 Speaker 1: as a result of foodie culture, et cetera, could we 2052 02:03:44,920 --> 02:03:49,360 Speaker 1: bring blue and Red together from the bottom via food 2053 02:03:49,760 --> 02:03:52,360 Speaker 1: is Would that even be possible because we're not bringing 2054 02:03:52,400 --> 02:03:57,640 Speaker 1: them together at the top. Yes, I believe. I mean 2055 02:03:57,720 --> 02:04:01,960 Speaker 1: and and Jose and I talked about this all the time. Uh, 2056 02:04:02,160 --> 02:04:05,920 Speaker 1: we need bigger tables. It's it's really that simple. We 2057 02:04:05,960 --> 02:04:08,640 Speaker 1: need bigger tables. I wanted to do a show called 2058 02:04:08,640 --> 02:04:12,280 Speaker 1: Dinner with the Dictator. Hopefully, if there's some network person 2059 02:04:12,360 --> 02:04:17,080 Speaker 1: listening for me, we'll we'll talk about it. Um, because 2060 02:04:17,120 --> 02:04:19,080 Speaker 1: of some of the places I've traveled and being the 2061 02:04:19,120 --> 02:04:22,520 Speaker 1: only person who's ever made TV in some of these places, 2062 02:04:23,160 --> 02:04:26,880 Speaker 1: or the first person to make TV there. Um, the 2063 02:04:26,920 --> 02:04:30,280 Speaker 1: head of the country wants to have dinner with you, 2064 02:04:30,400 --> 02:04:34,000 Speaker 1: and I don't believe in saying no, because I'm curious, 2065 02:04:34,040 --> 02:04:39,920 Speaker 1: even if that person is a international narco trafficker, terrorist, 2066 02:04:40,000 --> 02:04:43,320 Speaker 1: bad guy person, I want to go. I'm I'm an 2067 02:04:43,320 --> 02:04:46,600 Speaker 1: experienced collector and a storyteller, and so I want to 2068 02:04:46,600 --> 02:04:50,480 Speaker 1: go and see what that's like. And UM, I've never 2069 02:04:50,560 --> 02:04:56,360 Speaker 1: left a table having a meal with someone disliking them more. 2070 02:04:57,280 --> 02:05:01,000 Speaker 1: I've always understood more about them, and I believe if 2071 02:05:01,040 --> 02:05:05,400 Speaker 1: we actually sat down and broke bread in the literal 2072 02:05:05,480 --> 02:05:09,160 Speaker 1: sense with other human beings. I did a food dinner 2073 02:05:09,160 --> 02:05:13,480 Speaker 1: once for four hundred people in Aspen, Colorado. Uh. It 2074 02:05:13,600 --> 02:05:16,520 Speaker 1: was a buffet thing. We did whole roasted lambs, uh 2075 02:05:16,880 --> 02:05:20,640 Speaker 1: in two different ways, lots of sauces and sides. But 2076 02:05:20,720 --> 02:05:25,240 Speaker 1: I had assage, which is a North African Middle Eastern 2077 02:05:25,480 --> 02:05:28,880 Speaker 1: dome that's used to cook very thin flatbreads on and 2078 02:05:28,920 --> 02:05:31,720 Speaker 1: we're making bread to order. It only takes like thirty 2079 02:05:31,720 --> 02:05:33,840 Speaker 1: seconds and it's enough for like three or four people, 2080 02:05:33,880 --> 02:05:35,480 Speaker 1: so it kind of worked. As they came through the 2081 02:05:35,520 --> 02:05:38,880 Speaker 1: line and we're throwing these giant loaves of flat bread 2082 02:05:38,920 --> 02:05:42,320 Speaker 1: down into this basket and people would stare it, and 2083 02:05:42,360 --> 02:05:44,920 Speaker 1: I said, just you and these other two people in 2084 02:05:45,000 --> 02:05:46,600 Speaker 1: line with you, just grab it and tear it and 2085 02:05:46,640 --> 02:05:48,840 Speaker 1: break it. That's for you. Three. This pieces big, it's 2086 02:05:48,880 --> 02:05:51,120 Speaker 1: for you for this piece is smaller. It's for YouTube. 2087 02:05:51,240 --> 02:05:54,480 Speaker 1: And we'd actually have them physically break bread and watching 2088 02:05:54,520 --> 02:05:56,440 Speaker 1: them do that, this is seven or eight years ago, 2089 02:05:57,280 --> 02:06:00,480 Speaker 1: watching them smile and watching what happened when you physically 2090 02:06:00,520 --> 02:06:02,320 Speaker 1: broke a piece of bread with someone as you had 2091 02:06:02,480 --> 02:06:06,520 Speaker 1: by the way, people you did not know just reaffirmed 2092 02:06:06,560 --> 02:06:08,960 Speaker 1: for me. In addition to the hundreds of times I've 2093 02:06:08,960 --> 02:06:11,240 Speaker 1: sat down to eat with people I was sure I hated. 2094 02:06:12,640 --> 02:06:16,560 Speaker 1: I may leave. They're still knowing they're a bad human 2095 02:06:16,600 --> 02:06:19,640 Speaker 1: being doing bad things, and I don't believe in what 2096 02:06:19,680 --> 02:06:21,960 Speaker 1: they're doing, and I would still call the cops on 2097 02:06:22,000 --> 02:06:26,280 Speaker 1: them if I could, or whatever. But I understand more 2098 02:06:26,320 --> 02:06:29,200 Speaker 1: of them because I actually listened to them when we're 2099 02:06:29,280 --> 02:06:31,800 Speaker 1: at a meal. I believe the shouting ends and we 2100 02:06:31,840 --> 02:06:35,280 Speaker 1: can listen to them. What's heat in America? My MSNBC show, 2101 02:06:35,320 --> 02:06:38,120 Speaker 1: I had I had a meal with people who were 2102 02:06:38,200 --> 02:06:40,080 Speaker 1: on the other side of the issues. And in the 2103 02:06:40,120 --> 02:06:45,440 Speaker 1: case of the Secretary of State of Alabama, UM John 2104 02:06:45,480 --> 02:06:49,680 Speaker 1: Merrill at the time, someone who I thought was, you know, 2105 02:06:49,720 --> 02:06:56,480 Speaker 1: the architect of the Southern voters suppression UM and still 2106 02:06:56,520 --> 02:07:00,000 Speaker 1: a very very polarizing figure, and I believe a very 2107 02:07:00,080 --> 02:07:06,560 Speaker 1: very evil person, UH with with bad intent and UH 2108 02:07:06,600 --> 02:07:10,440 Speaker 1: and I and and the voting suppression issue in America 2109 02:07:10,520 --> 02:07:12,760 Speaker 1: is is one that I mean, I devoted a whole 2110 02:07:12,760 --> 02:07:14,920 Speaker 1: hour to it in What's Eating America? So I mean, 2111 02:07:15,120 --> 02:07:16,880 Speaker 1: you know where I stand on this. But in that 2112 02:07:17,280 --> 02:07:20,440 Speaker 1: What's Eating America episode, I actually dined with several people 2113 02:07:20,680 --> 02:07:22,920 Speaker 1: who were on the opposite side of the issue for me, 2114 02:07:23,680 --> 02:07:29,520 Speaker 1: and it changed none of my viewpoint about the issue, 2115 02:07:30,480 --> 02:07:34,840 Speaker 1: but I I got some insight into where they're coming from. 2116 02:07:34,880 --> 02:07:40,520 Speaker 1: Sufficient Two, if I was another politician or someone who 2117 02:07:40,600 --> 02:07:42,760 Speaker 1: was in that place to be able to work with 2118 02:07:42,840 --> 02:07:46,400 Speaker 1: them on something, could begin to do some things to 2119 02:07:46,520 --> 02:07:52,240 Speaker 1: at least put all put some hold, put some awareness, 2120 02:07:52,240 --> 02:07:55,480 Speaker 1: put some boundaries, make some improvements. The way we're going 2121 02:07:56,200 --> 02:07:58,760 Speaker 1: scares the ship out of me. I mean, this thing 2122 02:07:58,800 --> 02:08:01,440 Speaker 1: with vaccine, you know, we talk about restaurants. You know, 2123 02:08:01,480 --> 02:08:05,880 Speaker 1: these cities all around the country and restaurateurs. Danny most 2124 02:08:05,880 --> 02:08:09,920 Speaker 1: famously on CNBC the other day said, we want vaccine 2125 02:08:09,960 --> 02:08:12,960 Speaker 1: people have to show a vaccine card to make a 2126 02:08:13,000 --> 02:08:16,680 Speaker 1: reservation in the restaurant, right, So these vaccine mandates where 2127 02:08:16,920 --> 02:08:19,400 Speaker 1: you have to show your vacs to get into something. 2128 02:08:19,920 --> 02:08:23,000 Speaker 1: I do believe the federal government needs to come out 2129 02:08:23,040 --> 02:08:25,880 Speaker 1: and say that and take this awful burden off of 2130 02:08:25,960 --> 02:08:29,760 Speaker 1: restaurants and businesses and municipalities and states. We we we've 2131 02:08:29,800 --> 02:08:32,480 Speaker 1: got to start to do stuff like that. I don't 2132 02:08:32,520 --> 02:08:36,560 Speaker 1: think there's an option for it. But that's also going 2133 02:08:36,600 --> 02:08:40,720 Speaker 1: to create some real tension and some real escalation of 2134 02:08:40,760 --> 02:08:43,640 Speaker 1: trouble in this country, and I don't know if we're 2135 02:08:43,640 --> 02:08:45,760 Speaker 1: gonna be able to recover from it. It's a we're 2136 02:08:45,800 --> 02:08:49,520 Speaker 1: in a very, very dangerous time in America. Andrew, we 2137 02:08:49,560 --> 02:08:51,680 Speaker 1: could go on for another two hours. There's so many 2138 02:08:51,680 --> 02:08:53,840 Speaker 1: other things I wanted to ask you about. We'll have 2139 02:08:53,920 --> 02:08:57,800 Speaker 1: to wait for another time. You're fantastic your natural rock 2140 02:08:57,880 --> 02:09:01,040 Speaker 1: and tour. Thanks so much for doing this. Thank you 2141 02:09:01,080 --> 02:09:03,680 Speaker 1: as a real, real honor and a privilege. I wanted 2142 02:09:03,720 --> 02:09:05,240 Speaker 1: to do this for a long time. I've been a 2143 02:09:05,240 --> 02:09:08,960 Speaker 1: big fan of what you do UH for several years now, 2144 02:09:09,120 --> 02:09:11,960 Speaker 1: and and this conversation I feel the exact same way. 2145 02:09:12,160 --> 02:09:14,600 Speaker 1: Next time I'm in Los Angeles and we if we 2146 02:09:14,680 --> 02:09:16,879 Speaker 1: can go out to eat, let's go share our meal somewhere. 2147 02:09:17,400 --> 02:09:20,840 Speaker 1: I would love that. Until next time. This is Bob 2148 02:09:20,960 --> 02:09:21,440 Speaker 1: left sitt