Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know Are
Speaker 1: You a Charlotte? Welcome to Are You a Charlotte. This
Speaker 1: is our very first podcast. It's kind of crazy, very nervous,
Speaker 1: but we're just going to press on together. Okay. We
Speaker 1: are doing this podcast Are You a Charlotte because we
Speaker 1: want to look back at our wonderful show Sex and
Speaker 1: the City and kind of relive it. I'm going to
Speaker 1: rewatch it, but also just tell you how I remember it.
Speaker 1: You know, what was happening in life, what it was
Speaker 1: like filming it, all the different memories that come up
Speaker 1: when I'm watching it. I watched the pilot last night
Speaker 1: and wow, wow, I have so many thoughts. But also
Speaker 1: we really want to you know, have guests on. We
Speaker 1: want to hear from the fans. We want you guys
Speaker 1: to write in and call in and maybe come visit.
Speaker 1: I just want to create a community around the show
Speaker 1: that we were Sex and the City, the movie and
Speaker 1: just like that, our whole trajectory, and communicate with everyone
Speaker 1: about the themes that we talked about back then and
Speaker 1: how relevant they still are now. I want to acknowledge
Speaker 1: all of our writers who've contributed, our creator Darren Starr
Speaker 1: originally and Michael Patrick King currently. You know, we would
Speaker 1: not be able to be here if they're writing and
Speaker 1: their ideas were not so so good and brilliant and
Speaker 1: have really stood the test of time.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: When I'm Mountain Life, I run into fans and have
Speaker 1: just the most amazing conversations, and sometimes people cry and
Speaker 1: tell me about things in their life, or some of
Speaker 1: those people are like, remember that time you guys, you're
Speaker 1: on the sateline ferrier, you know whatever. It is different things,
Speaker 1: and it's such a connecting kind of a thing with people,
Speaker 1: and sometimes I'm in a hurry and I can't connect.
Speaker 1: And so that's kind of part of the reason that
Speaker 1: I felt like this podcast was the right time and
Speaker 1: kind of the right time for me life to reflect back.
Speaker 1: There used to be a time where I never wanted
Speaker 1: to see the old show because I felt like I
Speaker 1: would be living in the past because obviously it takes
Speaker 1: me back. But I feel at this point that it's
Speaker 1: really interesting to look back, and it has been so
Speaker 1: long and we are luckily still playing these characters, so
Speaker 1: super fascinating to think about how we all began and
Speaker 1: what we were thinking then and how we have been
Speaker 1: able to evolve. So welcome to Are You a Charlotte.
Speaker 1: So the first thing that I was going to talk
Speaker 1: about is like my life and how I got cast
Speaker 1: in the show and what it was like to get
Speaker 1: cast in the show. So I had been on Melro's Place,
Speaker 1: which Darren also created Darren Starr and very luckily cast
Speaker 1: me as this character Brooke Armstrong, and I was on
Speaker 1: for a season. But a season of Melro's Place was
Speaker 1: like thirty six episodes, which is totally insane to think
Speaker 1: about now. And then I died, well, yes, I died
Speaker 1: in the pool. I died to remember for a second.
Speaker 1: So I was out of work. Basically, I was out
Speaker 1: of work. I'd had this big, big, great job that
Speaker 1: was fun but also very bizarre. Melor's Place was like
Speaker 1: a you know, cult kind of a soap opera show,
Speaker 1: a lot of people watching it. It was my first
Speaker 1: big job. And then I went back to being kind
Speaker 1: of an out of work actor, auditioning all the time,
Speaker 1: all the time, all the time, trying to figure out
Speaker 1: what I wanted to do. And I had this wonderful manager,
Speaker 1: Dave Fleming, who's still my manager, and he said to
Speaker 1: me one day he said, you know, I really think
Speaker 1: that you should do comedy because you can do comedy
Speaker 1: and not everyone can. And so you've been on a
Speaker 1: soap and we probably are going to have to work
Speaker 1: to get you cast in comedy. So I auditioned for,
Speaker 1: for instance, Seinfeld. I think I auditioned, I want to say,
Speaker 1: six times, and then finally got a guest star on
Speaker 1: Seinfeld an incredible, amazing. Then I was had a little
Speaker 1: part on r with Clooney, also amazing. You know, little
Speaker 1: things that where I was just trying to you know,
Speaker 1: you're trying to find your thing. And I got this
Speaker 1: script from Darren and I had a little note from
Speaker 1: it and he said, Kristin, you know, I really want
Speaker 1: you to read this for the part of Carrie. He
Speaker 1: didn't say, will you do the part of Carrie. I
Speaker 1: think that's some rumor that's out there that I was
Speaker 1: offered the part of carry No, no, No. One was
Speaker 1: offering me any roles at this point in life. Okay,
Speaker 1: I was reading scripts and auditioning. So he sends me
Speaker 1: the script and he says, read this for the part
Speaker 1: of Carrie, and I was like, okay, And Carrie is
Speaker 1: very clearly the main part, and she is described as
Speaker 1: having the body of Heatherlocklear with the mind of Dorothy Parker.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, what, I can't what I can't do that?
Speaker 1: So I'm like I was stressing, And in the pilot
Speaker 1: she swore a lot and she smoked a lot. She
Speaker 1: was much more like the Candace Bushnell of the time,
Speaker 1: which Candace wrote the column that then became the book
Speaker 1: Sex and the City that Carry is based on. So
Speaker 1: in the pilot she was not as you see her
Speaker 1: when Sara Jesska does eventually play her. So I thought
Speaker 1: to myself, I can't I can't possibly pull this off.
Speaker 1: At the time, I definitely was like, no way, But
Speaker 1: I like this other girl, Charlotte, because Charlotte and the
Speaker 1: pilot there was not a lot on the page, but
Speaker 1: it was very clear that she had a different point
Speaker 1: of view than the other girls, that she was more
Speaker 1: focused on, you know, relationships and love, which I kind
Speaker 1: of related to. But also I'd grown up in the
Speaker 1: South where everyone's trying to get married, and I just
Speaker 1: felt like she was more hopeful and less I don't
Speaker 1: know how to put it, but she seemed more younger
Speaker 1: in her viewpoint and open than the other characters, which
Speaker 1: at the time I related to a lot when I
Speaker 1: watched the pilot. I have some other thoughts, but we'll
Speaker 1: get to that in a second. So I was like, well, Darren, Darren,
Speaker 1: I can't, I can't possibly play that part. I think.
Speaker 1: I called him and said, I can't, I can't play Carrie.
Speaker 1: I don't even know what you're thinking, but I could
Speaker 1: play this other girl. I want to play this other girl.
Speaker 1: He was like, oh, okay, okay. You know, we have
Speaker 1: Sir Jisca Parker and we really want her to play Carrie.
Speaker 1: And I was like, that would be amazing. I was
Speaker 1: a huge fan of Sarah's I'd seen ELA's story multiple times,
Speaker 1: and she does other things too, but I just loved her.
Speaker 1: I had seen her and Annie when I was little
Speaker 1: and she was little, but I hadn't been aware of
Speaker 1: her as being her at that time. But I was like,
Speaker 1: you should make that work with Sara Jessica Parker because
Speaker 1: she's incredible and intelligent and so fascinating and this would
Speaker 1: be a great part for her. And she lived in
Speaker 1: New York and she was very of New York, you know,
Speaker 1: so I thought that would be great. So I said, no, no,
Speaker 1: I need to play this other character. So she said, okay,
Speaker 1: we'll bring you in for the other character. So I
Speaker 1: go in. And I really wanted it because at that
Speaker 1: point in time, I can't remember any shows that were
Speaker 1: led by women and only women at that time filming,
Speaker 1: and nothing filmed in New York except for cop shows
Speaker 1: like Law and Order. So the idea that you would
Speaker 1: go to Manhattan, that these four women were the the
Speaker 1: through line of the thing. It was unclear in the
Speaker 1: pilot exactly what would happen with the four women, but
Speaker 1: it was clear that Carrie was the lead and that
Speaker 1: these other women were in the mix. And the idea
Speaker 1: that we would like walk around Manhattan in these like outfits,
Speaker 1: you know, and go to the met you know, staircase
Speaker 1: to record, you know, do the show, do the you
Speaker 1: know locations whatever. It was very it was a very
Speaker 1: glamorous idea and kind of like outside the box of
Speaker 1: what was currently happening in nineteen ninety seven, which is
Speaker 1: the year that we filmed the pilot. So I really
Speaker 1: wanted it. So I go to test at the HBO
Speaker 1: building over here in Century City and in la and
Speaker 1: they were seeing people in New York seeing people in
Speaker 1: la There was a lot of people in the mix.
Speaker 1: You'd hear like, oh, they want a comedian to play Miranda.
Speaker 1: Oh they wanted this, Oh they wanted that. You'd hear
Speaker 1: all these different things, but everybody wanted these parts, and
Speaker 1: so I go. I think I just went directly to test.
Speaker 1: I don't remember going in before that. And this is
Speaker 1: back in the olden days where we had fax machines
Speaker 1: and we went to test on the day, and you
Speaker 1: had this You had to have a pilot deal, which
Speaker 1: was this really lengthy, like seven year contract, which was
Speaker 1: how television worked at the time, and it would have
Speaker 1: like you would be in this many episodes each season
Speaker 1: for this year, but they had to have seven years
Speaker 1: of your commitment, which was a lot. And their fax
Speaker 1: machine at the office had broken, so they wouldn't let
Speaker 1: anyone read for the part without signing the final contract
Speaker 1: that were being sent by all of our lawyers. So
Speaker 1: I was there. Willie Garson was there, and I knew
Speaker 1: Willy already. I had met Willy in Vancouver probably the
Speaker 1: year before, and I loved him so much, so thank
Speaker 1: god he was there, because I do wait for hours
Speaker 1: before I could go in and read. Darren was there,
Speaker 1: but he was inside reading with whoever got their contract first. Right,
Speaker 1: So I'm sitting on a counter at this point, and
Speaker 1: Willy is sitting up there with me. Were there for
Speaker 1: so long that like, I'd be nervous, and then I'd
Speaker 1: get unnervous, and then Willie would tell me a funny
Speaker 1: story made me laugh. I'd be unnervous, and then I'd
Speaker 1: get nervous again. Darren would come out, and Darren looked
Speaker 1: very stressed. And I think the backstory for Darren is
Speaker 1: that he had had a big deal at Fox because
Speaker 1: of nine o two and Oho and Melrose, and he
Speaker 1: really wanted to change up what he was doing. He
Speaker 1: wanted to take more risks, he wanted to film in Manhattan.
Speaker 1: So he had gone with HBO for less money because
Speaker 1: he felt like he'd have more freedom, which he absolutely did.
Speaker 1: Because at that time the networks were very specific and
Speaker 1: safe and advertiser driven, and cable was brand new. So
Speaker 1: HBO had only had a show. I think they had
Speaker 1: had dream On, which was an odd show where every
Speaker 1: episode some woman took her top off, and then they
Speaker 1: had had the Larry Sanders show, which I had also
Speaker 1: guest starred on, which was incredible, but that was it.
Speaker 1: So there's no sopranos. There's nothing else on HB You
Speaker 1: and HBO was like, we're going to try this. We
Speaker 1: don't know, we're not a real network. So we're in
Speaker 1: the testing, you know office. We're in the office of
Speaker 1: HBO and Darren's nervously coming in and out. Willie's like
Speaker 1: making me laugh, making it so much better. But it
Speaker 1: goes on. I might have waited five hours, I can't remember.
Speaker 1: It was very long, and I was I was pretty
Speaker 1: nervous because I really really wanted the part of Charlotte.
Speaker 1: So I go in, I read that, I go back out.
Speaker 1: This is how testing worked, and you have to wait
Speaker 1: and then they're going to come back out and give
Speaker 1: you notes or tell you to go home or whatever.
Speaker 1: It's like very stressful, and will he's just like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, I've had it. You know, he's so funny.
Speaker 1: So Darren comes out. I had gone in, I had read,
Speaker 1: I had come back out. You know, Charlotte doesn't have
Speaker 1: a lot in the pilot, so I had done the
Speaker 1: best with what I had and it wasn't like jokes
Speaker 1: or like funny funny. It was, you know, more it
Speaker 1: was the scenes with the guy, so it was more
Speaker 1: relationship whatever stuff. So he comes out and he's like, Kristen,
Speaker 1: you've got to be funnier. You've got to be funnier.
Speaker 1: And he's waving his hands like this, and I'm like, oh, god,
Speaker 1: is super nervous. I was like, okay, I've got.
Speaker 2: To be funnier.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, what am I gott to do? So
Speaker 1: I was like, welly, what am I going to do?
Speaker 1: He was like, oh, you know, just make it bigger,
Speaker 1: make it bigger. And I was like okay, okay. So
Speaker 1: I go back in and I think there were three people,
Speaker 1: like that's how small HBO was. It was Chris Albreck,
Speaker 1: the head of HBO, Carolyn Strauss, who was the head
Speaker 1: of original programming, and I think Michael Hill, who was
Speaker 1: like the executive in charge of the new shows. I
Speaker 1: guess I think that, and maybe are casting people Billy Hopkins,
Speaker 1: Orkerry Barton. Not hardly anyone there. So I go back
Speaker 1: in and I remember Chris standing up and Chris was
Speaker 1: wearing like a complete riding outfit, like with tall boots
Speaker 1: and whatever. And I was like, this is so fascinating,
Speaker 1: and he was like, you know, can you you know,
Speaker 1: make her, you know, more funny, and I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll try. So I really tried to make that funny,
Speaker 1: but I think it was the scene on the met
Speaker 1: staircase which wasn't funny. But anyway, whatever, I did my best.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, please God, let this work, Please,
Speaker 1: let this work. So believe. And the way that the
Speaker 1: contract was was you would test and then I think
Speaker 1: they had two weeks to tell you. Oh, the longest
Speaker 1: two weeks of my life. Like they waited and waited.
Speaker 1: Every day. I'd call my people, did you hear anything?
Speaker 1: Did you hear anything? They're like non or anything, Oh
Speaker 1: my god, Jesus God, wor they don't do it. So
Speaker 1: at the final day, you know, it was like, you know,
Speaker 1: the time is ticking and I was like, I'm just
Speaker 1: I'm going to go to the movies. So I went
Speaker 1: to a Brad Pitt movie, I remember it, and I
Speaker 1: like ran to the car afterwards, called on like my
Speaker 1: ancient cell phone and they were like, yes you got.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh thank god. So I was super
Speaker 1: excited but like really nervous, and then I don't remember
Speaker 1: anything in between there except getting to Manhattan. I had
Speaker 1: lived in New York before I'd gone to Rutgers in
Speaker 1: New Jersey. I had gone all over Manhattan, and this
Speaker 1: is when I get to watching the pilot. I watched
Speaker 1: the pilot and I was like, first of all, I
Speaker 1: seem like I'm twenty five years old, and second of all,
Speaker 1: I seem like I've literally never been to Manhattan, like
Speaker 1: everyone else is so much more sophisticated than me. And
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know if it's like the
Speaker 1: Charlotte element. I remember, Okay, so I had long hair
Speaker 1: previous to getting there for this, you know, hair like
Speaker 1: kind of like how it is right now. I get there.
Speaker 1: One of the first things they say to me is
Speaker 1: that they want me to cut my hair. And I'm like, why, well,
Speaker 1: I do want me to cut my hair because to me,
Speaker 1: I didn't feel like all the New York ladies had
Speaker 1: their haircut or whatever. But they were like, we want
Speaker 1: you to look like Jill Hennessy, who's on Law and Order.
Speaker 1: And I was like, well, but Jill Hennessy is like
Speaker 1: really tall and extremely beautiful and she's got there's long neck,
Speaker 1: and how am I ever going to look like Jill Hennessy.
Speaker 1: And also my hair is wavy. I was like, if
Speaker 1: you cut my hair like she had like a short
Speaker 1: bob at this time, right, I'm just gonna have like
Speaker 1: a poof, I'm gonna be like a poodle. So the
Speaker 1: hair guy on the pilot really sweet guy, very much
Speaker 1: like a like a regular journeyman hairdresser on TV shows, right,
Speaker 1: and he's like, you've got to get your haircut, and
Speaker 1: if you don't get your haircut, I'm going to cut
Speaker 1: it for you on your first day of work. And
Speaker 1: I'm like what. So I get in a panic. And
Speaker 1: at this point I don't really know Sarah Jessica well
Speaker 1: enough right to go to her, Like now, I know
Speaker 1: I should have gone to her asap, okay, but I
Speaker 1: didn't know. I didn't know yet. And I also probably
Speaker 1: should have gone to Darren. I don't know if Darren
Speaker 1: was aware they were trying to chop my hair off,
Speaker 1: but I was like, oh god, oh god. So I
Speaker 1: go to like this salon on Madison Avenue and they
Speaker 1: had a booklet that you had to go through and
Speaker 1: like pick out like a haircut. So I was like,
Speaker 1: I guess this one. So I picked that weird haircut
Speaker 1: that I have. It's like here, it's like a very
Speaker 1: halfway haircut. But I was so scared that that guy
Speaker 1: was going to cut my hair in the trailer at work,
Speaker 1: which seemed really like not a good idea. So I
Speaker 1: get this haircut and then I remember Sarah Juska being like,
Speaker 1: what happened to your hair? And I was like, that
Speaker 1: dude made me cut it. She was like what, And
Speaker 1: then I realized, like, this is who I need to
Speaker 1: talk to about things. Then I get there, he doesn't
Speaker 1: like my haircut and he wants me to put this
Speaker 1: massive velvet scrunchy on the back of my head. It's
Speaker 1: literally like as big as my face. And I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: sarataisica no, because at that point I realized that you
Speaker 1: need to run things by her. She's going to help you.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, he wants to put this scrunch She
Speaker 1: was like, no, no scrunchies, no banana clips. We're in Manhattan,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay, thank god. Right, So I've got
Speaker 1: that strange little like flip in that oof that first
Speaker 1: scene where I'm talking to camera. Oh gosh, it's not good.
Speaker 1: It's not good. And then, thank goodness, they put my
Speaker 1: hair up. I think for the rest of it, at
Speaker 1: least for the date they put my hair up. I
Speaker 1: can't remember for the Chinese restaurant, but I mean, oh,
Speaker 1: that was stressful. So after that I grew my hair out,
Speaker 1: you know, thank goodness. And I think at that point
Speaker 1: and this is the other I mean, I don't even
Speaker 1: know when I should get into the rewatching, but rewatch
Speaker 1: I say that I live at Fourth and Bank. When
Speaker 1: did Charlotte ever live at Fourth and Bank. I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm in the village. I was in
Speaker 1: the village and I didn't even know it, and that's
Speaker 1: like a dream address. I'm like, maybe they asked Kristin
Speaker 1: where she'd like to live, and I would have said
Speaker 1: Fourth and Bank, but I had no idea Charlotte's uper
Speaker 1: east Side, upper west Side. I was upper west side,
Speaker 1: that it was up eastside. But I mean, it's all
Speaker 1: very interesting. But the main thing I want to say
Speaker 1: from that is that we didn't know what we were
Speaker 1: in a way, do you.
Speaker 2: Know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like it seems now kind of like we did, and
Speaker 1: I think Sarah Jessica did, but I didn't know at
Speaker 1: all what we were.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I remember thinking like, I've got to walk around and
Speaker 1: look at the women and try to figure out, like
Speaker 1: who these characters are. And I also knew that Charlotte
Speaker 1: in the book Sex Andicity wasn't really she wasn't prominently featured,
Speaker 1: and she wasn't like a through line. And later on
Speaker 1: I thought that she was based on different people. So
Speaker 1: Kendis had kind of compiled different stories of different friends
Speaker 1: of hers into one person, which is why when you
Speaker 1: read the book, you're like, in the book, I think
Speaker 1: Charlotte takes psychedelics and goes roller skating, like what you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying. So I remember just being like, huh,
Speaker 1: that's really interesting. But I was just trying to navigate.
Speaker 1: And I'm wearing that short skirt when you first see me.
Speaker 1: What on earth? I mean, that's definitely a Melrose place,
Speaker 1: you know, That's what we wore predominantly. But I'm just like, oh,
Speaker 1: oh my god. But it was ninety seven also, so anyway,
Speaker 1: and we didn't have pat Field yet. So many things
Speaker 1: I remember, so many things. I remember meeting Cynthia. I
Speaker 1: had seen Cynthia when she was doing two plays on
Speaker 1: Broadway across the street from each other, and I had
Speaker 1: read an article about her than the New York Times
Speaker 1: and thought, like, this woman, Oh wow, she's got the life.
Speaker 1: You know, she's incredible, and she was so good in
Speaker 1: these two plays, the Real Thing and her liberally like
Speaker 1: incredible actress. So I was very kind of like starstruck
Speaker 1: in a way. And Sin had a baby Sam at
Speaker 1: the time, and I was like, aren't you nervous. I
Speaker 1: remember she had like a little picture of Sam on
Speaker 1: her notebook. I said, aren't you nervous to go to work?
Speaker 1: And she was like no. And I was like, this
Speaker 1: woman's cool, so cool and fascinating. Right, She's like no,
Speaker 1: what do you mean. I'm like, okay, all right, all right,
Speaker 1: So it's fascinating. And I remember meeting Kim. I think
Speaker 1: I met Kim in Vancouver. There's like one hotel when
Speaker 1: you work in Vancouver all the actors stay in. But
Speaker 1: I hadn't really talked to her, and then we were
Speaker 1: in an elevator because I think we were staying in
Speaker 1: the same hotel. I think remember being in an elevator
Speaker 1: with her and talking about Jazz. I mean, it was
Speaker 1: so long ago, so long ago, but I mostly remember
Speaker 1: in terms of all of us being together, would be
Speaker 1: the scene in the pilot when we're in the Chinese
Speaker 1: restaurant that I guess is Miranda's birthday, which is also funny.
Speaker 1: I didn't remember that. That was really the only time
Speaker 1: in the pilot that worked together in the way that
Speaker 1: we come to be together obviously as part of the show.
Speaker 1: And I remember that day super well. I was super
Speaker 1: excited to get to work with everyone. And I remember
Speaker 1: Sarah Jessica called me to a trailer. She's like, come
Speaker 1: come with me, and she had this huge thing of
Speaker 1: Krispy Kreme donuts. And I grew up in South Carolina,
Speaker 1: where cream are from, and I was like, first of all,
Speaker 1: how is this tiny, tiny little actress eating Krispy Cream donuts?
Speaker 1: And second of all, hallelujah because none of that was
Speaker 1: having at Melo's place right. I was like, we're gonna
Speaker 1: eat donuts, Oh my god. And we chatted and she
Speaker 1: was asked me questions about myself and she's just so
Speaker 1: incredibly sweet. And then we went into the scene and
Speaker 1: it was really you know, we've got the you know,
Speaker 1: drag queens and the crazy Chinese things, and it was
Speaker 1: like so many people, and it was so different from
Speaker 1: anything in the Melrose world and really fun and exciting.
Speaker 1: And at that point that's when I remember the talking
Speaker 1: to the camera thing. So I don't know if you
Speaker 1: all remember we used to talk to the camera. That
Speaker 1: was like a part of the pilot that was, you know,
Speaker 1: really interesting and very different, and it was just on
Speaker 1: the page. So I don't remember as a person thinking
Speaker 1: like should this be here? Should this not be here?
Speaker 1: I just remember it being very hard to do, like
Speaker 1: when I had to be like, you know, these men
Speaker 1: are threatened by successful women and so you just have
Speaker 1: to be quiet and play the game or something I say,
Speaker 1: like so hysterical, but like the fact that you would
Speaker 1: actually look in the camera was so weird for an actor, right,
Speaker 1: like you were like, am I on a commercial? What
Speaker 1: am I doing? What am I doing? And I feel
Speaker 1: to some extent that what I remember about the Chinese
Speaker 1: restaurant scene was Sara Jessica talking to Darren about it
Speaker 1: because there was some kind of debate about how much
Speaker 1: should she talk to the camera or in what way
Speaker 1: should she talk to the camera, especially if we were
Speaker 1: in a group scene, Like in what way would she
Speaker 1: turn and just start talking to the camera like it
Speaker 1: was strange to break the fourth wall in that way,
Speaker 1: and she seemed to feel at the time, I remember,
Speaker 1: not super comfortable with it. And I remember watching her
Speaker 1: talking to Darren about it and thinking like, this woman
Speaker 1: is so strong in herself and knows herself so well
Speaker 1: and is talking to him in such a great way
Speaker 1: of like an equal footing in terms of the creative process.
Speaker 1: And I hadn't really seen that. I had. I hadn't
Speaker 1: really been around that. I mean maybe in theater I had,
Speaker 1: but not in television up to that point. And she
Speaker 1: really was really just trying to navigate her own way
Speaker 1: to make it organic, because it's a really odd thing,
Speaker 1: like you're in a scene, you're doing your regular acting,
Speaker 1: and then you have to turn and be like blah
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah. It was a strange, strange thing,
Speaker 1: and I knew at the time that she was uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: So when I was going to do this podcast, you know,
Speaker 1: I have obviously talked to everyone about it in our
Speaker 1: world and they have given their blessing, and I said
Speaker 1: to you, I just want to check in with you
Speaker 1: about the talking to the camera because I remember that
Speaker 1: day at the Chinese restaurant, and I remember you and
Speaker 1: Darren kind of negotiating how it would go or how much.
Speaker 1: And she reminded me of a couple things that I
Speaker 1: would never have remembered. One is that she felt really
Speaker 1: uncomfortable about it because she felt like, it's really hard
Speaker 1: to do It's hard to make it organic because you
Speaker 1: are in a scene. And also this what I hadn't remembered.
Speaker 1: Matthew Brodrick, her husband, had done it in Ferris Bueller
Speaker 1: and Ferris Bueller's Day Off, in case you haven't seen it,
Speaker 1: is a huge classic film that was, you know, a
Speaker 1: touchstone for all of us as we were growing up,
Speaker 1: like it was a formative kind of a viewing experience.
Speaker 1: So for Sarah, she felt like, well, Matthew did this
Speaker 1: so brilliantly, how am I going to live up to that? Which,
Speaker 1: of course I would never remember that, and probably no
Speaker 1: viewer would remember that, But it makes perfect sense when
Speaker 1: you think about it, because that was an inherent part
Speaker 1: of Ferris Bueller's Day Off, right that you're kind of
Speaker 1: with the Farris character going through it all and he's
Speaker 1: just talking to you in this kind of like kind
Speaker 1: of smart, alec adorable, charming, Matthew way, And I think
Speaker 1: Sarah felt like that was too hard to do for
Speaker 1: an entire show, you know, And it's a good point.
Speaker 1: It's a lot. It's a lot of her talking to
Speaker 1: the camera. I only had to do it a tiny bit,
Speaker 1: and I remember being very hard. So that was really
Speaker 1: interesting for me to think about. But then the other thing,
Speaker 1: I don't even know if I should get into this
Speaker 1: get or whatever, but like all the other people talking
Speaker 1: to the camera and the fact that you don't even
Speaker 1: see the rest of us for so long, I'd forgotten
Speaker 1: all these things until I rewatched it. And then also
Speaker 1: Sarah Winter, who's kind of our guest star, and her
Speaker 1: her storyline is so fascinating, and then we never find
Speaker 1: out what happens. I'm like, what happened to that character?
Speaker 1: She just gone? She got ghosted by this guy? Oh? No,
Speaker 1: where is she? Is she? Okay? Why don't we ever
Speaker 1: talk about her anymore? Like it's super fascinating, you know,
Speaker 1: I've forgotten all that we're gonna talk to Sarah. I
Speaker 1: know what, I haven't seen the pilot and probably I
Speaker 1: mean at least twenty years maybe more, because I was
Speaker 1: never a fan of the pilot. I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't know about the pilot. I knew in my gut
Speaker 1: that the show was like a living, breathing thing that
Speaker 1: we should do and that I should be on it
Speaker 1: as well as everyone else, but I didn't When I
Speaker 1: saw the pilot, I was like, I don't know in
Speaker 1: terms of a pilot, right, because back then we were
Speaker 1: in like more networking television. It was a different vibe.
Speaker 1: And when you see our show, it is also a
Speaker 1: different vibe, like it's kind of rough, Like when they
Speaker 1: go to Chaos, which I'm not in that scene, and
Speaker 1: everyone always asks me about cast and I'm like, I
Speaker 1: don't remember casts. That's because I wasn't there. Chaos is
Speaker 1: a mess. You're like, what what's happening here? Like did
Speaker 1: they just take a camera in there and film people?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: It's messy and interesting. I mean, very very different from
Speaker 1: network TV. Very different. I guess part of my response
Speaker 1: to the pilot back then was that it didn't seem polished,
Speaker 1: It didn't seem smooth. It seemed kind of choppy and hectic.
Speaker 1: But I also feel my personal theory on pilots in
Speaker 1: general is that if they're too good. If the pilot
Speaker 1: is too formed, the show might not be good. Like
Speaker 1: what you want in a pilot is like a like
Speaker 1: a spark, like a something like a fissure, like an energy,
Speaker 1: and then the show can run on that and you
Speaker 1: can form it into something like Clay. And then you
Speaker 1: can form it into something if you have the right
Speaker 1: creative people and if you have a network who will
Speaker 1: allow you to form it, which luckily we did an HBO,
Speaker 1: thank god, because we really we went on such a
Speaker 1: course of you know, finding each character and the show's vibe,
Speaker 1: you know, over the years really and it's actually still
Speaker 1: a journey, which is amazing and amazing that we've been
Speaker 1: allowed to do that. But I remember watching the pilot
Speaker 1: myself at the time, and the scene that I remembered
Speaker 1: and loved, and I feel like everyone feels this way
Speaker 1: is the last scene with Big and Carrie in the
Speaker 1: car and when she gets out, and first of all,
Speaker 1: the village, I mean, it's unrecognizable, Okay, the city in general.
Speaker 1: You're just like, I can't even believe it's changed as
Speaker 1: much as it's changed. I mean, it's still glorious, but
Speaker 1: it's just it was like it looks like the seventies,
Speaker 1: almost true. I mean that's at a little questionable to say,
Speaker 1: and people who are in New York and the seventies
Speaker 1: might disagree with me, But I mean it's rough looking.
Speaker 1: It's fascinatingly rough looking, except for the met stairs of course,
Speaker 1: very glamorous, but Sarah on the street and we used
Speaker 1: to film in Super sixteen, which is very different than
Speaker 1: how we film now, so it's got a kind of
Speaker 1: a rougher quality to the actual film stock. And it's
Speaker 1: just so interesting, like an indie film. It reminds me
Speaker 1: of an indie film, and also an indie film in
Speaker 1: terms of like, you're here, you're there. There's not a
Speaker 1: lot of explanation, there's not a lot of backstory. People
Speaker 1: are just talking to you, and then you're in chaos
Speaker 1: and people are smoking cigars and like it's a very
Speaker 1: interesting and slightly chaotic situation. But really I wanted to
Speaker 1: know more, Like when I watched it last night, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I want to know all about Miranda. I feel like
Speaker 1: Miranda in that suit with that hair eating, you know,
Speaker 1: like calling a skipper skippy and then she pushes it
Speaker 1: up against the wall. I don't remember any of this.
Speaker 1: I obviously wasn't there when they filmed it, but I
Speaker 1: was like, I want to go with her, Like, what's
Speaker 1: her job? What's she doing? And I guess it said
Speaker 1: corporate lawyer, But like, I want to follow her there.
Speaker 1: You know, she's super fascinating and funny and weird. And
Speaker 1: then Samantha is so sophisticated and powerful. You know, this
Speaker 1: is my other thought. When I was watching the show,
Speaker 1: I was like, the three of them are very powerful.
Speaker 1: Charlotte not so powerful, not so powerful at all. Charlotte's
Speaker 1: like a puppy. You know. I really was like, this
Speaker 1: is super fascinating. So I have this other story. So
Speaker 1: I told you about testing, and I had this big,
Speaker 1: big deal. It was like a big, thick, seven year deal.
Speaker 1: When we're doing the pilot. This producer, I think she
Speaker 1: was like a maybe a line producer, like not an
Speaker 1: executive producer. One day I'm in my trailer and she
Speaker 1: comes to my trailer and she knocks on my door
Speaker 1: and I opened it and you know, yes, and she says, oh, well,
Speaker 1: we have this paperwork we need you to fill out.
Speaker 1: And I was like, okay, I take the paperwork and
Speaker 1: I look at it and it seems to be like
Speaker 1: a new contract, but it's only two pages long, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, what is this? And it says like, you know,
Speaker 1: you will be a recurring character and you will be
Speaker 1: paid five thousand dollars And I was like what, So
Speaker 1: I call my lawyer. I'm like, Jason, he's still my Jason.
Speaker 1: Just give me this newpaperwork. What do I do? He said,
Speaker 1: do not sign it. I was like, but but they're
Speaker 1: gonna ask me. What am I gonna say? Because I'm
Speaker 1: a good girl, you know, I'd like to do my
Speaker 1: things right. And he's like, I just just say you
Speaker 1: forgot it. So you forgot it. And I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: what is going on? He said, I don't know. I'm
Speaker 1: going to find out. I'll call them. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I know that the pilot's costing a lot and that
Speaker 1: they're stressed at HBO about it. I think the pilot
Speaker 1: costs like two point five million roughly, which at the
Speaker 1: time was a lot because no one really filmed in Manhattan.
Speaker 1: Right when you look at it, it does not look
Speaker 1: like it cost a lot. But I think just being
Speaker 1: in the locations we were in cost a lot. So
Speaker 1: I was like, oh God, Oh Jesus, what are they
Speaker 1: trying to do to me? He goes happening. I was
Speaker 1: so stressed, and then I was just like, I'm just
Speaker 1: not going to mention this to anybody else. I'm just
Speaker 1: going to pretend like everything's fine, you know. But inside
Speaker 1: I was really really nervous about it, and I didn't
Speaker 1: know what it meant. Darren didn't say anything to me
Speaker 1: about it, so I thought, well, if Darren's not saying
Speaker 1: anything to me about it, then everything must be okay.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I was scared. But it was also
Speaker 1: very clear from the book and from the script and
Speaker 1: from the pilot that Charlotte's point of view was a
Speaker 1: different point of view than the other girls. Now that
Speaker 1: they all share the exact same point of view, they don't.
Speaker 1: But when we do have that group scene about trying
Speaker 1: to have sex like a man, and I'm like what
Speaker 1: you know? And I make crazy faces, you know, like
Speaker 1: what romance? You know, it's very clear that I'm on
Speaker 1: a different trajectory, And you do kind of think, like,
Speaker 1: how did Charlotte get to be friends with these girls?
Speaker 1: Like this is interesting, right, but do you feel like
Speaker 1: that is how friend groups are like you're gonna have
Speaker 1: a variety of friend groups. I always thought that was
Speaker 1: weird through the years, when people would bring that up
Speaker 1: to me, like why are you friends with them? I'd
Speaker 1: be like, why wouldn't I be friends with them? Right?
Speaker 1: They're fascinating, They're interesting. I think Charlotte was trying to
Speaker 1: like learn from them, or you know, hopefully some of
Speaker 1: that would rub off on her or whatever. But honestly,
Speaker 1: when I looked back on it, I was like, well, now,
Speaker 1: I do think they were trying to save money, but
Speaker 1: I also think that they were like, well, she's so different,
Speaker 1: and the other three are kind of powerful, like in control,
Speaker 1: trying to navigate this relationship thing where we're talking about
Speaker 1: these issues, and you know, can women have sex like
Speaker 1: men and not have feelings? You know, like what does
Speaker 1: it mean to be ghosted?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: Why are there so many incredible single women and all
Speaker 1: these toxic bachelors Like I get all of the points.
Speaker 1: And then to have Charlotte be kind of this looking
Speaker 1: for love, you know, naive character, which obviously I knew
Speaker 1: she was. It is different. It is definitely different, But
Speaker 1: in my gut, I felt like it was really important
Speaker 1: to have this other character. So even though I was
Speaker 1: super stressed about this weird paperwork thing, I did feel like, no, no,
Speaker 1: they need me, you know. I felt inside that they
Speaker 1: needed me. And I'm so happy that I did, because
Speaker 1: obviously it could have really gone wrong, right, like anyone
Speaker 1: could get recast or cut out or at any time
Speaker 1: in our business. But in my gut, I didn't feel
Speaker 1: like that would happen. And I'm so thankful that I
Speaker 1: that I didn't and that I had faith in myself.
Speaker 1: I really am unsure why. In some ways, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. I wasn't the most super confident person
Speaker 1: or whatever, but I do feel like when things come
Speaker 1: to you and you have something that connects with that
Speaker 1: and you have something that you want to be able
Speaker 1: to express or create or whatever, and something that you
Speaker 1: want to be a part of, because I know, I
Speaker 1: desperately wanted to be a part of it, like I
Speaker 1: thought it was like the most incredible job ever, you know.
Speaker 1: And when I watch that group scene, all I see
Speaker 1: is how much I want to connect with them, you know,
Speaker 1: how much I want to be with them and fit in,
Speaker 1: which is kind of heartbreaking in a certain way, but
Speaker 1: also that is kind of Charlotte. You know, that is
Speaker 1: kind of in a way like she wants to be loved,
Speaker 1: she wants to find love, she wants to have love
Speaker 1: with her girlfriend, she wants to connect, you know. And
Speaker 1: I do relate to that still, But when I look
Speaker 1: back on it, I'm like, wow, I was like a
Speaker 1: floppy puppy and they're like sophisticated power, you know, like Samantha.
Speaker 1: I mean, I was just like, she's like a purring
Speaker 1: cat of power, and you know, like she's in there
Speaker 1: using her tools, and Kim does it so well, and
Speaker 1: then Miranda is like an awkward power you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Like, and then Carrie, I forgot this whole
Speaker 1: scene where she goes to try to have sex with
Speaker 1: Bill Sage's character and gets out of bed and is like,
Speaker 1: you know, good luck. He's like what about me, and
Speaker 1: she's like never mind and she gets out of bed.
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, I totally forgot about this. How incredible.
Speaker 1: But I do remember that we were it was, you know,
Speaker 1: shocking in many ways to be talking about sex in
Speaker 1: this kind of open way at the time, and I
Speaker 1: remember that we were nervous about the response, like would
Speaker 1: women like it? Like we were trying to make it
Speaker 1: for women, but we were like, are they going to
Speaker 1: be turned off? Because I do think there's a lot
Speaker 1: to think about in terms of like the male gaze
Speaker 1: and how like at that time in films there was
Speaker 1: a lot of sexuality, but it was from the director's
Speaker 1: point of view or the male actors, like it was
Speaker 1: from the male gaze, not necessarily from empowering women. I mean,
Speaker 1: with a few exceptions, like I can think of like
Speaker 1: that Melanie Griffith movie in Manhattan, what was it culed?
Speaker 1: Do you remember sidebar? We'll figure it out later. Working girl,
Speaker 1: good job, good job, working girl, working girl. Incredible, Like
Speaker 1: there were like like here and there a little and
Speaker 1: we talk about the Last Seduction. We talk about that
Speaker 1: in the film, and that was also like a super
Speaker 1: powerful female character, Linda Fiorentino, remember her, You're too young anyway,
Speaker 1: you know, like there were things here and there where
Speaker 1: the women were powerful kind of sexual beings, but there
Speaker 1: was no TV show like that at all. Right, So
Speaker 1: like from that perspective, I think about how amazing it
Speaker 1: was to be a part of it and how much
Speaker 1: fear we had about the response of it to it,
Speaker 1: you know, but also how incredible that we got to
Speaker 1: do it, you know, and how far everything has come.
Speaker 1: But yet when you look back, we don't use the
Speaker 1: term ghosting, but obviously Sarah Winter's character is ghost before
Speaker 1: we had a term for it, which is always a
Speaker 1: very perplexing thing and still very much something you know,
Speaker 1: we discuss in our culture. And then also, you know,
Speaker 1: can women have sex like men? I mean, I think
Speaker 1: it's a valid question. I do feel like that part
Speaker 1: of the conversation has definitely come a long way. Like
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, the casual hookup became very
Speaker 1: like acceptable in a certain way, in a more kind
Speaker 1: of equal men and women way, which is great, but
Speaker 1: wasn't true in the nineties. I don't feel like, I mean,
Speaker 1: it might have been true, but I don't know that
Speaker 1: we were open about it, you know. But anyway, I
Speaker 1: think those things are super fascinating, and those were the
Speaker 1: two big themes of the show. And then also, I mean,
Speaker 1: I thought so many things watching the show, but one
Speaker 1: of the things I thought was, like, every male character
Speaker 1: in this show is awful. Okay, they're awful. Why do
Speaker 1: we even want to date them? Why? Why? And thank
Speaker 1: god we wrote toxic bachelor on each one, because all
Speaker 1: of them, all of them, even Skipper, I mean, he's
Speaker 1: just I don't know, well, I'm not I'm not buying
Speaker 1: the Skipper of it all. I hadn't really remembered the
Speaker 1: Skipper of it all. I just love how Miranda is
Speaker 1: with him, where she's just like Skippy. You know, it's
Speaker 1: just so funny. But I mean it's super fascinating all
Speaker 1: of it, all of it. And then I mean there's
Speaker 1: so many other things that I've left out. For one thing,
Speaker 1: I just want to talk about Sarah Jessica. We're gonna
Speaker 1: have a little Sir Jesca talk right now. She's got
Speaker 1: her brown hair. Love it. I love it so much.
Speaker 1: I know we had to go blind, but like to
Speaker 1: see her brown hair curly natural and her eyes, My
Speaker 1: good Lord, like, thank God, we built an empire on
Speaker 1: this woman. She is incredible, dur I'm saying, like I
Speaker 1: was floored. I had not watched this thing is so long,
Speaker 1: and her ease and grace and like also intelligence and depth. Right,
Speaker 1: but like the scene on the street where she meets
Speaker 1: Big and she drops the condoms, but then also when
Speaker 1: she's leaving, you know, she almost like she has to
Speaker 1: fix her skirt behind her Like her physical comedy is
Speaker 1: so brilliant but also subtle. And then also like when
Speaker 1: she has this scene with Bill Sage where she's like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I forgot Willy. Oh my god, when
Speaker 1: Willy comes on the screen, I might cry. Sorry, but
Speaker 1: you know, he's so young and he's so beautiful and
Speaker 1: I really had forgotten, you know, sorry, but I had
Speaker 1: to stop.
Speaker 2: When I was watching it, I was like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: we were just little little babies, you know. And he's
Speaker 2: so funny and their relationship is so great and they
Speaker 2: had been friends for so long. So I love it
Speaker 2: that it's on camera.
Speaker 1: I have to stop this for a little seconds in
Speaker 1: the scene, I was thinking about the scene that Willy
Speaker 1: and Sarah are in together and.
Speaker 3: You know, he's telling her like, don't go talk to him,
Speaker 3: and she's like, no, no, you know, I'm doing research.
Speaker 3: And she's so seductive and funny and like her eyes.
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, who could say no to her? Like,
Speaker 3: who could say no to her? She's incredible. That was
Speaker 3: fun to watch, Like, I don't know that I think.
Speaker 3: I was just like, I'm just gonna do everything she tells.
Speaker 1: Me to do. Like that's what I feel like at
Speaker 1: the time when I met her, you know, she seemed
Speaker 1: so much more sophisticated, and I mean she frankly just
Speaker 1: is more sophisticated than I am. And I just remember thinking, like,
Speaker 1: whatever she says, I'm gonna do it, I'm going to
Speaker 1: try to do it. Like if she says to grow
Speaker 1: my hair, and I'm gonna grow my hair out. You know,
Speaker 1: if she says to wear longer shirts, I'm gonna wear
Speaker 1: longer shirts. I'm just gonna try to do whatever she says.
Speaker 1: And I did, which is great. But it's really funny
Speaker 1: to look at everything she brings and how she shifted
Speaker 1: the role of Carrie to kind of suit her, but
Speaker 1: also she made her more kind of like every woman
Speaker 1: in a way. I mean, I know this is obviously debatable,
Speaker 1: and the show goes on a long time and everyone
Speaker 1: has opinions about Carrie, but you know, she's so fascinating
Speaker 1: and I don't think that our whole trajectory would ever
Speaker 1: have worked if Sarah had played less, do you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying? Like she added so much depth and thinking,
Speaker 1: Like her intelligence shows through in so many ways because
Speaker 1: she is a columnist, and she is thinking about, well,
Speaker 1: why this and why that? And you know, she is
Speaker 1: the reason that we could all deepen out, you know,
Speaker 1: because if she hadn't brought that, then the rest of
Speaker 1: us would have been able to do that. So I
Speaker 1: thought about that watching it like, it's a pretty incredible performance,
Speaker 1: even in the messiness of us trying to find ourselves
Speaker 1: and her apartment. Oh my god, I still can't get
Speaker 1: over that apartment and what I think it was, because
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously we changed to the Perry Street apartment,
Speaker 1: which was not supposed to be Pari Street. It supposed
Speaker 1: to be that our breast side, which is where Candace
Speaker 1: actually lived. And Candace I believe, did actually live over
Speaker 1: a coffee shop. Remember they show that neon side of
Speaker 1: the coffee shop and then that really really incredibly messy apartment.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's super interesting, but I was shocked. I
Speaker 1: do not remember it being that dark and that messy,
Speaker 1: and I'm really glad that we changed it. Okay, So
Speaker 1: as you can see, I have many stories. I have
Speaker 1: stories for days, stories for days, and I look forward
Speaker 1: to telling them all to you. But I also have
Speaker 1: an exciting guest who're going to bring the very first
Speaker 1: guest star, Sarah Winter in to talk to me. She's
Speaker 1: the very first face that you see in the pilot
Speaker 1: and she's so lovely and I have such fond memories
Speaker 1: ever and I can't wait to see her again. And
Speaker 1: that is going to be on our next episode of
Speaker 1: Are You a Charlotte? And I think we're gonna ask Sarah,
Speaker 1: are you a Charlotte? Let's ask her, let's find out
Speaker 1: thanks for being with me.