WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Indiana Dunes disappearance 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.040 Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by Bigfoot writing 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:06.240 a unicorn. Instead, it's brought to you by Simply Safe. 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:09.160 As much as we love investigating various crimes, the last 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:13.320 thing anyone wants to encounter is crime firsthand. Now there's 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:15.880 a smarter way to protect your home. Was Simply Safe. 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:19.240 Simply Safe doesn't have annual contracts, so there's no commitment 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:22.400 and no lawkins period. And best of all, was Simply 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:27.000 Safe you get seven protection with professional monitoring and police dispatch, 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:30.920 which is just fifteen bucks a month. It's unbeatable protection 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:34.159 at a great value and no strings attached. So protect 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:37.720 your home the smart way. Visit simply safe dot com 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:42.000 slash criminal to get timber cent off your system today. 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:46.199 That's s I M p l I Safe dot com 0:00:46.400 --> 0:01:04.000 slash Criminal. Sideways up brought the stories of things we 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:09.440 simply don't know the answer to. Hey, guys, welcome to 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:13.440 another episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast I Am Devin, 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:22.559 joined as usual by and Steve, the Boys the Dudes 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:27.800 at It's Okay. This week we're going to talk about 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:32.080 the Indiana Dunes disappearance, and it was suggested by Francesca. 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:35.880 Thanks Francesco, but it's one that I personally known about 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:38.200 for a really long time. She just happened to suggest 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:41.080 it too, and then other people have suggested since then. 0:01:41.200 --> 0:01:43.559 Probably sorry about that. Yeah, you might feel left out, 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:46.840 but we read your emails, I swear. Yeah. So this 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:52.360 disappearance includes three women. You'll often see girls, but they 0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:55.120 weren't girls. They were young women and they were named 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:59.240 Anne Miller, Patricia Blow, and Renee Browl in July of 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:04.400 nineteen six d six years ago. Man. Yeah, and oddly 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:08.840 all three of their Charlie Project pages are different slightly lately. 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:11.640 They're actually all cut and pasted and then modified. Yeah, 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:14.440 they are, but it's still kind of weird because they 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:18.000 disappeared together. So it seems like the information it should 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:21.560 be first paragraph is unique and last paragraph even the 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:23.520 body should be the same, but it's not. I agree 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:26.440 they should weird in there. Yeah, they should all actually 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:29.280 have to have just one page. I think, well, there 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:34.560 three different women. So um, so we're gonna go ahead 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:38.040 and go through the agreed upon story and we'll try 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:40.880 to make mention of any additional details as we can 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:43.000 to keep the story flowing. I don't want to give 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:45.560 anything away, but what happened to these three to be determined. 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:49.639 Oh really, okay, So Anne, Renee, and Patricia, who I've 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:52.840 seen referred to as Patty on a couple of blogs. 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:55.240 But I think she was Patricia. I don't think she 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:58.880 was Patty. Patty is a nickname for Patricia. I mean, 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:01.280 I know, but I think she was went by Patrician, 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:04.840 not Patty. But I said, if she went by pat 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:08.200 and Patty, and so anyway, we're gonna call our Patricia. 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:12.400 The three of these young women were horse enthusiasts, and 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:15.160 and Patricia met when they were boarding their horses at 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:17.920 the same stable. And then Patricia and Renee had been 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:24.160 friends since high school. Patricia was nineteen in nineteen sixty six, 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:26.360 and so was Renee. They had gone to high school together, 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:28.600 so you know, that makes sense. And then Anne was 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:31.440 twenty one, so a couple of years older. They often 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:35.240 met at a tavern in Hodgkins, Illinois, which is that 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:38.160 like a suburb of Chicago, it's one of many suburbs. 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:41.560 So they all lived in suburbs of Chicago, or actually 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:46.560 I think Renee lived in West Chicago, but they all 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.000 lived in suburbs, and so Hodgkins would have actually been 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:51.920 a pretty central meeting point for them, and it was 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:54.600 close to the stables. She was close to the stables 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:57.760 as well. Yeah, Renee was married patrician and both had 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:01.160 boyfriends that they may or may not have met at 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:03.840 the tavern. And also the men may or may not 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:07.400 have been married. I promise. So when you say boyfriends, 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:10.040 that they met, they met these guys for the first 0:04:10.080 --> 0:04:12.520 time at the tavern, not they had boyfriends who would 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:15.440 also meet the girls. Yeah, yeah, that they first met 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:20.680 at the table. Okay, I no, no, no, yeah, yeah, sorry, 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.719 so they maybe met these may be married men who 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:28.600 are their boyfriends respectively. Um, but it's it's unclear if 0:04:28.640 --> 0:04:30.760 these guys were married or not. I was a great choice. 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:33.240 Always you always want the married dude. Yeah, well, especially 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:35.599 when you're nineteen and twenty one, that's really when you 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:39.200 want the married. Good choices. Yeah. The women all stabled 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:42.039 and rode their horses at a stable called the Tri 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:46.920 Color Stable in Palatine, Illinois, which was owned by George Jane, 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:52.200 brother to Silas Jane. And we will talk about that later, Jane. 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:54.719 I know you guys love it when I say that. 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:57.200 We will talk about that later. If you happen to 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:00.480 have just had your ears peaked a little bit. It's 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:04.040 possible that you don't. Don't worry about Yeah, there is 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:07.680 Patricia aside from riding, just having a riding horse that 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:12.240 she had, she also owned a Thoroughbread named Hank, which 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:14.480 I think is a pretty cool name for horse, who 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:17.719 was a winning race horse. He had recently won two 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:21.840 separate races. That one about nine hundred dollars a piece, 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:24.760 which is like almost seven thousand dollars now, So not nothing. 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:28.200 I mean, we're not like, yeah, both of those races 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:31.160 were up in Canada, so Canadian dollars so much much. 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:36.000 I think it was American dollar. But yeah, so that 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:39.600 this will again probably be relevant later. But we'll talk 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:41.640 about that later because I know you guys like to 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:45.279 hear that. On July second, nineteen sixty six, in the 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:48.640 wee hours of the morning, Ann and Patricia returned to 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:51.920 their respective homes like right after bar closing time, like 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:54.760 two or three am. It's never really specified, but it 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:57.240 is said that they returned home very late. Yeah, I 0:05:57.240 --> 0:05:59.600 always heard. I've heard it said just before dawn. I 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:04.040 have no idea that. Yeah, then around eight am and 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:07.560 sets out to pick Patricia back up from Patricia's house 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:10.160 and owns a car. I think it was a Buick. 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:16.080 Buick and Anne lived in Lombard, Illinois, and Patricia lived 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:19.360 in Westchester, both suburbs of Chicago. As we previously mentioned, 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:23.719 the two drove together to pick up Renee, who lived 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:27.479 in West Chicago. Renee had told her mother earlier that 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:29.280 morning that she had planned to be home to cook 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:32.640 dinner for her husband sometime in the evening. Okay, so 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:34.400 then what happens? Come on, come on, come on, tell 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:36.760 me more. The three of them stop at a store 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:39.520 to pick up sun some sunscreen, and then planned to 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:43.040 spend the day at the dunes, the Indiana Dunes, which 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:45.880 is on Lake Michigan, in case you don't know of it. 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:48.200 Kind of nice. Yeah, it was at that time the 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:50.960 Indiana Dunes State Park. It is now the Indiana Dunes 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:56.280 National Park or National resor I can't remember that. It's 0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:59.520 a national park now national, Yeah, but it was a 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:01.440 state park at the time. That means you can't like, 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:05.880 do math or have guns. It's a safe space. Yeah. Yeah. 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:08.520 They arrived at about ten am, which seems like a 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:11.440 quick drive to me, but you know, it was nineteen 0:07:11.520 --> 0:07:14.120 sixty six, so maybe traffic wasn't as bad as it 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:16.960 is now in Chicago. It's reported that there were some 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:20.280 nine thousand visitors to that beach on the second you 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:25.680 know holiday. It was the Saturday before July. Yeah, so 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:29.120 it was busy. Obviously, they happened to set up next 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:31.280 to a couple on the beach that noticed them, so 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:33.200 they had, you know, a big beach blanket and everything 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:35.960 like that. And the one question about about the Indiana 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:38.320 I should have looked this up actually when I was researching, 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:40.160 but I never actually looked at the park itself to 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:44.240 see how long. It's like miles and miles and miles. Yeah, 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:46.280 it's miles and miles and miles long. So there's like 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:49.800 multiple parking lots and all kinds of stuff. Okay, it 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:52.280 sounded to me like it's a big place. And by 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:54.480 the way, like Michigan is a big lake. I don't 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:57.280 know if people know this, Yeah, very big. It's really big. Yeah. 0:07:57.480 --> 0:07:59.440 So I mean, you know, nine thousand people over the 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:01.800 course of a day on a Saturday on a holiday weekend. 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:04.240 It's not as though you're you know, packed shoulder to shoulder. 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:07.440 But it's also not as though there's no one there. Yeah, 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:09.840 but yeah, and miles and miles of beaches, nine thousand people, 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:11.520 it's not that much really, when you think about it, it 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:14.640 it probably wasn't that crowded. Well, and um, you know, 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:17.440 just because they were visiting the beach. The Lake Michigan 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:20.040 is a big boating area, so that also includes the 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:22.240 people who were just coming to park their cars to 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:23.920 you know, be on their boats and stuff like that. 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:27.720 But it was enough that there were people around, you know, 0:08:27.760 --> 0:08:30.200 it wasn't abandoned. And there was this couple that sat 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:34.040 next to where the ladies set up. I think it's 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:36.840 they were. They were near another couple, if I remember correctly, 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:40.120 because they were trying they were either near a tree 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:42.800 or trying to use the shade of the tree tree. 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:44.800 That's why they set up shop where they did, about 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:48.400 a hundred yards away from the water. It was me 0:08:48.480 --> 0:08:50.360 as I I always stick at a nice little spot 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:52.440 in the beach, and then immediately a big family of 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:55.200 seventeen comes and like plunks themselves down right next to 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:57.559 me for no reason whatsoever. This is why I don't 0:08:57.559 --> 0:08:59.360 go to the beach with you. Yeah, I know, I'm 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:01.120 a magna for that kind of thing. Luckily I don't 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:05.480 have that problem. Yeah, they this couple noticed these three 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:08.280 young women, and they reported that the women were just 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:11.520 hanging out, and then at about noon, they all three 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:16.079 entered the water together. They were swimming around and then 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:19.640 maybe a boat came up to them, and they all 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:22.840 three got on the boat and went away. Because, by 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:26.880 the way, chicks love boats. Some chicks, do you love boats? Yeah? 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:30.120 There were a lot of boats, but this particular boat, 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:35.960 this couple said was about fourteen to sixteen feet long. 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:39.440 It was white, had a blue interior and outboard motor. 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:41.920 There was a man driving the boat who was described 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:44.319 as a I love this quote tan with a head 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:49.800 full of coal colored curls. Quote foreign. Yeah, wearing a 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:53.200 beach jacket. He's always wearing a beach jacket. I don't 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:55.319 know what a beach jacket exactly is, to be honest 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:57.760 with you, but I see it like a breaker. Okay, 0:09:57.880 --> 0:09:59.960 I just seen it on a dozen different web pages 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:03.680 about this. I had the same thing, except I actually 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:06.120 came across one site that said that he was wearing 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:11.839 a life jacket, which would be smart dat Uh. Yeah, 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:15.880 this boat, this was the tri Marian. Correct, This particular boat. 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:18.840 It was a try hole but not trimaran. They didn't 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:22.439 know there's a sailboat with three separate holes, and try 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:25.200 hall is just a single hole boat. But it's got 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:27.880 like those it's got like those two big grooves in 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:31.760 the hall. So this one they don't know. This is like, 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:34.160 we need to pause on that because we'll talk more 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:36.880 about what you're talking about. Second, it confused me because 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:39.480 that's jumping ahead. This is literally the report that this 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:42.120 couple gave this boat, which is where we're at right now. 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:46.360 They actually used the words coal colored curls. They did, apparently. Yeah, 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:49.760 nothing about a foreign accent, they know there was, They didn't. 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:52.000 They just saw the guy like hand yards away. But 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:56.880 you can still hear that foreign stop it. No, he 0:10:57.000 --> 0:11:04.000 was just a kidnapping, okay. The couple spent the rest 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:06.560 of the day at the beach, sitting next to these 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:10.520 three young women's clothes, and when it was getting to 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:13.680 be dusk, they started packing up and noticed that the 0:11:13.720 --> 0:11:17.520 women hadn't come back yet, and so they were able 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:20.319 to find a park ranger and point out, you know, hey, 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:23.760 there's some stuff here, and there were three young women here. 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.560 And they left at noon and they haven't been back yet, 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:28.600 and then gave also the report of they got on 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:31.240 this boat with this guy and we haven't seen them 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:34.839 since so and the park ranger said, okay, well, I 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:37.280 don't know, maybe they forgot about it, or maybe they 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:39.920 went off to a party boat or something. So he 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:44.080 collected their stuff and then kept it in the office. 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:46.880 By the way, a couple of days. I've never seen 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:49.240 their names, and I presume the name of this couple 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:53.080 is just lost. I think it's just been actually have 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:57.360 seen it. I found it, and then like an hour 0:11:57.480 --> 0:11:58.839 later I was like, oh my god, I need to 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.839 write that down, and I didn't do it, and then 0:12:01.880 --> 0:12:04.600 find that web page again. Good luck. Yeah, that's the problem. 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:09.280 It's it's they're not any any famously known names of 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:11.959 any well, and there's no I mean, and there's there's 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:15.240 no reason for them to be thrown into a spotlight 0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:17.240 or have their name tossed around. Because this is one 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:20.120 of those cases that people have been really intrigued by 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:22.760 and feel it was a little mismanaged, and so in 0:12:22.800 --> 0:12:26.360 those kinds of cases, I totally respect not giving out 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:29.719 the first witness information because people are constantly going to 0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:33.280 be bad, yeah, or their family or whatever, saying I'm 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:35.800 sure you guys know more. And that's just horrible. And 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:38.560 they were just trying to be good Samaritans, so you know, 0:12:38.600 --> 0:12:42.600 why give that information. Okay, well we'll call them. We 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:45.079 don't need to call them anything because that's that's their 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:47.640 last in our case, we never know, we might we 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:51.880 might talk about the age, okay. The stuff that the 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:56.080 women had left behind, um did include purses and towels 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:59.600 and stuff like that. And as I said, the rangers 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:04.120 store them in their office for until the fourth when 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:07.640 Patricia's father called the ranger station to ask about his daughter. 0:13:08.120 --> 0:13:11.480 And it turns out missing person's reports had been filed 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:14.400 for all three young women over the weekend when they 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:16.959 didn't come back on the night of the second. And 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:18.880 you know, this is one of those situations where it's 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:22.720 tough because they're all adults technically, Yeah, they can do 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:25.760 what they want, and so they might just run off. 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:28.720 I don't know how, yeah, how seriously it was taken. 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:32.160 I mean, the father of Patricia is the person who 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:36.120 had to call the ranger station at their last known location. 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:41.040 The cops didn't even reach out all three. Yeah, the 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.800 cops didn't reach out and say, hey, did you guys 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:46.920 like find a body or something, I mean, like even 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:50.560 something as cursory as that they didn't do. So it 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:53.160 was a different age. It was a different age. Yeah. 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:58.680 When the rangers get the call, they say, oh, um, yeah, 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:00.400 what were the names of the other person? And this 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:02.720 is you know, when you would go to state parks, 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:05.280 you still have to do this. You fill out to 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:07.280 you have to pay for parking. So you fill out 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:10.600 a little slip of paper with your license number and 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:13.000 the spot that you've parked in at this at this 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:15.880 particular one, the spot you parked in, and then you 0:14:15.880 --> 0:14:17.600 you know, hang your little thing in the window and 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:20.080 you drop your money with the other things in the box. 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:23.960 So big cast iron boxing. Yeah. So they were able 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:27.280 to actually find the record of Ann's car, which happened 0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:30.080 to still be parked in the same spot, and as 0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:34.040 luck would have it or not, her keys happened to 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:37.840 be with the belongings that they've been holding. It totally 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:40.480 makes sense. Yeah, And there were additional things that they 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:43.800 found in the car, just personal effects, you know, additional 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:46.240 clothes and stuff like that. The articles that they left 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:49.360 on the beach in case anybody's wondering Anne had left 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:53.080 her denim shorts, a polo shirt, her shoes, and her 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:57.400 bathing cap, you know, just a swim cap, a comb, 0:14:57.520 --> 0:15:02.360 and her thermis. Patricia had left a yellow robes, sunglasses, transistor, radio, 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:05.480 a white towel, and her wallet that had five dollars 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:09.760 in it, and then Renee dollars today, right, not not quite, 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:12.840 but it's not I mean, it's not nothing. Renee had 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:17.600 left her beach towel, her shorts, a blouse, cigarettes, sunscreen, cents, 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:19.880 and her purse that had like fifty dollars worth of 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:26.360 checks in it. Now that's actually a randomly leave, yeah, 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:30.600 I And then yeah, as I said that, more more 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:36.760 stuff was found in the car, nothing of any couple, No, no, 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:41.160 just you know, like coats and probably regular stuff that 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:44.680 you find in somebody's car, probably Patricia's actual clothes because 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:47.520 she had just left her robe, you know, things like that. 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:50.600 So nothing out of nothing, out of the ordinary. That 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:52.440 was all the searching he did on the fourth, because 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:56.040 you know, holiday and stuff like that. Whatever, missing persons, whatever, 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:59.760 we'll put that onworks off. Yeah. So finally on the 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:04.080 it they launched their full scale investigation. And I'm gonna 0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:06.120 have full scale air quotes because there was a full 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:09.640 scale investigation for about a couple of days, and then 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:13.240 it was just two dudes who never two investigators who 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:15.800 never even met each other, were in charge of the 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:20.640 rest of this in different districts in different states. Yeah, yeah, 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:25.000 probably Illinois and Indiana. Yeah, And it was, you know, 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:28.400 one state patrolman who was in charge of finding backgrounds 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:32.920 and then another investigator. And they don't they didn't. They 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:36.520 never met in person ever. I actually don't even know 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:38.960 if they even spoke to each other. I'm not sure 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:42.120 you would think so, but I think that I think 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:45.480 they would meet to yeah, apart the full scale thing 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:48.080 was just basically scuba divers and dragon the lake and 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:52.120 all that stuff. And the full scale was the U. S. 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:54.720 Coast Guard came in and they you know, had some 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:58.360 scuba divers come down and they did and the helicopters 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:00.920 and kind of searching for these and things like that. 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:05.520 And initially they just searched within a tiny little radius 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:08.720 of where the women's stuff was found, and then they 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:10.960 expanded it. A couple of days later, they expanded it 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:14.400 six miles along the coast or along the lake shore 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:17.240 kind of to the southwest. I think, yeah, because I 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:19.480 I when I saw that, I assumed the currents must 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:21.840 move from east to west there, and then that has 0:17:21.880 --> 0:17:24.840 to be the reasoning. I guess I've presumed that that's accurate. 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:29.399 During this time, a lot of other witnesses, reliable or not, 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:33.160 came forward, you know, they said, hey, some young women 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:35.520 went missing. If you guys happened to be on the beach, 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:37.480 if anybody has information, let us know, And a lot 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:40.240 of the stories started to conflict what the original couple 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:44.720 had said. But the investigators kind of all agreed that 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:47.480 they found that first report to be the most reliable 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:50.080 and then to me, that's not so weird. I think 0:17:50.160 --> 0:17:53.560 they were able to say, these people went and did this, 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:57.600 it's weird, and they but they it's pretty clear that 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:02.920 they saw what happened were versus you know, nine thousand 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:06.000 people on a beach. Three young women could be any 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:10.760 three young women could totally have mistaken a group, you know, 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:14.040 for that group and given a different story. So the 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:17.159 police did pretty much say this is this is at 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:20.080 least the start of what had happened here. Yeah, I 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:24.439 don't think they ever got any actual, really actual, certifiable 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:27.359 other witnesses to those women actually being on that beach, 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:31.120 people that you trust, because again he put the word 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:32.399 out to the public, and of course a lot of 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:35.080 people are going to think there are a couple other 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:37.680 things that did happen, and we're going to talk about 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:40.359 that right now. Yeah, more witnesses kind of started to 0:18:40.400 --> 0:18:43.120 come forward, and one guy actually turned It turned out 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:45.479 had been filming doing like home videos, you know, just 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:49.840 from the family and his trip, and he had footage 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:53.320 of two separate boats that the police identified as boats 0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.880 of interest. Basically, I haven't found this footage anywhere online, 0:18:57.119 --> 0:18:59.320 but though to be fair, I didn't look very hard. 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:02.879 I tried, but so if somebody happens to find it, great, 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:06.600 send it to us. But I kind of feel like 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:10.280 if the guy was filming his family, then they would 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:14.879 have been in the background and probably unrecognized, and its well, 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:18.600 maybe recognizable. So what the footage caught basically was these 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:21.439 two different boats that they thought were a little suspect. 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:27.639 One was a fiberglass sixteen to eighteen foot trimaran try 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:31.320 hole what I've heard it called trimaran, but it's I 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:33.040 think it's really what they made. What they mean is 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:36.840 try hole. Well, it says a trimaran run about with 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:40.080 a three whole design. So I don't know what that 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:45.119 means necessarily, you think it's not that important, but what 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:48.000 I think you're probably important. Yeah, I think it probably is. 0:19:48.040 --> 0:19:49.680 It's like, you know, your average a little little motor 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:51.520 unt about. It's like get a V hole, which is 0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:54.199 basically comes down to a single keel, and in the 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:57.520 try hole there's a central keel and then there's two 0:19:57.520 --> 0:19:59.879 outer keels also, and then there's two what they call 0:19:59.880 --> 0:20:03.520 it tunnels in between them. Oh, I know exactly what 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:06.320 you're talking about. The bottom the boat has to two 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:10.840 arcs in them on the bottom, and it's a flatter Yeah, 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:13.119 it's a little it's a more flatter and more square design. 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:15.680 And that makes so much more. That's way more sense 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:19.320 than the other try holes. I've never seen a motorized 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:22.600 trim ran a sailboats. Yeah, yeah, well that's I was 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:25.760 like that, that's a distinctive boat to be a true 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:31.520 three individual holes. I was like, that's so strange. Okay, 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:34.760 thank you, thank you. That makes way more sense because 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:36.800 I did when I googled it, I was like, wow, 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:43.080 that's I think people would have remembered that. But Okay, sure, 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:45.720 why not, it's a little different. Yeah, So that boat 0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:49.399 the film, this person who was filming was able to 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:52.800 see and the police from the descriptions, it sounds like 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:55.000 the image was clear enough at least that they were 0:20:55.040 --> 0:20:57.400 able to see that there was one guy and three 0:20:57.520 --> 0:21:01.359 women on there. And the guy seemed to match at least, 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:03.240 you know, kind of. He was wearing his whatever, a 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:07.679 boat jacket, and he had black curly hair, and the women, 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:11.679 you know enough, they're probably their bathing suits are probably 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:15.280 how they matched because I think it was hair. Well 0:21:15.320 --> 0:21:16.959 it's black and white, right, but you can tell if 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:20.280 it but to I think two of them were in 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:22.760 bikinis and one was in a one piece if I 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:25.280 remember right, So that would help, that would help identify 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:26.959 if they were all in bikinis, you know, you had 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:29.040 the wrong boat, right. But still even with that, with 0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:32.200 the film, I don't think they really got a well 0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:37.200 they didn't. So there's this other boat that was at 0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:40.320 Trojan Cabin Cruiser. That's a big boat. I don't know 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:43.560 what that is either. He's a big boat. Yeah, that's 0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:48.040 not a huge boat really, but it's a big boat. 0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:49.960 It's got a big cabin on could one call it 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:52.440 a house boat. No, not really. I mean, you could 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:54.840 live on a ft, but it'd be kind of cramped. 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:56.920 But you know, you're talking bigger about you're talking like 0:21:58.280 --> 0:21:59.919 you're getting in a big boat territory, but you can. 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:03.960 I mean, so this is important to me. A layman 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:05.960