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Speaker 1: slash Criminal. Sideways up brought the stories of things we
Speaker 1: simply don't know the answer to. Hey, guys, welcome to
Speaker 1: another episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast I Am Devin,
Speaker 1: joined as usual by and Steve, the Boys the Dudes
Speaker 1: at It's Okay. This week we're going to talk about
Speaker 1: the Indiana Dunes disappearance, and it was suggested by Francesca.
Speaker 1: Thanks Francesco, but it's one that I personally known about
Speaker 1: for a really long time. She just happened to suggest
Speaker 1: it too, and then other people have suggested since then.
Speaker 1: Probably sorry about that. Yeah, you might feel left out,
Speaker 1: but we read your emails, I swear. Yeah. So this
Speaker 1: disappearance includes three women. You'll often see girls, but they
Speaker 1: weren't girls. They were young women and they were named
Speaker 1: Anne Miller, Patricia Blow, and Renee Browl in July of
Speaker 1: nineteen six d six years ago. Man. Yeah, and oddly
Speaker 1: all three of their Charlie Project pages are different slightly lately.
Speaker 1: They're actually all cut and pasted and then modified. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they are, but it's still kind of weird because they
Speaker 1: disappeared together. So it seems like the information it should
Speaker 1: be first paragraph is unique and last paragraph even the
Speaker 1: body should be the same, but it's not. I agree
Speaker 1: they should weird in there. Yeah, they should all actually
Speaker 1: have to have just one page. I think, well, there
Speaker 1: three different women. So um, so we're gonna go ahead
Speaker 1: and go through the agreed upon story and we'll try
Speaker 1: to make mention of any additional details as we can
Speaker 1: to keep the story flowing. I don't want to give
Speaker 1: anything away, but what happened to these three to be determined.
Speaker 1: Oh really, okay, So Anne, Renee, and Patricia, who I've
Speaker 1: seen referred to as Patty on a couple of blogs.
Speaker 1: But I think she was Patricia. I don't think she
Speaker 1: was Patty. Patty is a nickname for Patricia. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know, but I think she was went by Patrician,
Speaker 1: not Patty. But I said, if she went by pat
Speaker 1: and Patty, and so anyway, we're gonna call our Patricia.
Speaker 1: The three of these young women were horse enthusiasts, and
Speaker 1: and Patricia met when they were boarding their horses at
Speaker 1: the same stable. And then Patricia and Renee had been
Speaker 1: friends since high school. Patricia was nineteen in nineteen sixty six,
Speaker 1: and so was Renee. They had gone to high school together,
Speaker 1: so you know, that makes sense. And then Anne was
Speaker 1: twenty one, so a couple of years older. They often
Speaker 1: met at a tavern in Hodgkins, Illinois, which is that
Speaker 1: like a suburb of Chicago, it's one of many suburbs.
Speaker 1: So they all lived in suburbs of Chicago, or actually
Speaker 1: I think Renee lived in West Chicago, but they all
Speaker 1: lived in suburbs, and so Hodgkins would have actually been
Speaker 1: a pretty central meeting point for them, and it was
Speaker 1: close to the stables. She was close to the stables
Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, Renee was married patrician and both had
Speaker 1: boyfriends that they may or may not have met at
Speaker 1: the tavern. And also the men may or may not
Speaker 1: have been married. I promise. So when you say boyfriends,
Speaker 1: that they met, they met these guys for the first
Speaker 1: time at the tavern, not they had boyfriends who would
Speaker 1: also meet the girls. Yeah, yeah, that they first met
Speaker 1: at the table. Okay, I no, no, no, yeah, yeah, sorry,
Speaker 1: so they maybe met these may be married men who
Speaker 1: are their boyfriends respectively. Um, but it's it's unclear if
Speaker 1: these guys were married or not. I was a great choice.
Speaker 1: Always you always want the married dude. Yeah, well, especially
Speaker 1: when you're nineteen and twenty one, that's really when you
Speaker 1: want the married. Good choices. Yeah. The women all stabled
Speaker 1: and rode their horses at a stable called the Tri
Speaker 1: Color Stable in Palatine, Illinois, which was owned by George Jane,
Speaker 1: brother to Silas Jane. And we will talk about that later, Jane.
Speaker 1: I know you guys love it when I say that.
Speaker 1: We will talk about that later. If you happen to
Speaker 1: have just had your ears peaked a little bit. It's
Speaker 1: possible that you don't. Don't worry about Yeah, there is
Speaker 1: Patricia aside from riding, just having a riding horse that
Speaker 1: she had, she also owned a Thoroughbread named Hank, which
Speaker 1: I think is a pretty cool name for horse, who
Speaker 1: was a winning race horse. He had recently won two
Speaker 1: separate races. That one about nine hundred dollars a piece,
Speaker 1: which is like almost seven thousand dollars now, So not nothing.
Speaker 1: I mean, we're not like, yeah, both of those races
Speaker 1: were up in Canada, so Canadian dollars so much much.
Speaker 1: I think it was American dollar. But yeah, so that
Speaker 1: this will again probably be relevant later. But we'll talk
Speaker 1: about that later because I know you guys like to
Speaker 1: hear that. On July second, nineteen sixty six, in the
Speaker 1: wee hours of the morning, Ann and Patricia returned to
Speaker 1: their respective homes like right after bar closing time, like
Speaker 1: two or three am. It's never really specified, but it
Speaker 1: is said that they returned home very late. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: always heard. I've heard it said just before dawn. I
Speaker 1: have no idea that. Yeah, then around eight am and
Speaker 1: sets out to pick Patricia back up from Patricia's house
Speaker 1: and owns a car. I think it was a Buick.
Speaker 1: Buick and Anne lived in Lombard, Illinois, and Patricia lived
Speaker 1: in Westchester, both suburbs of Chicago. As we previously mentioned,
Speaker 1: the two drove together to pick up Renee, who lived
Speaker 1: in West Chicago. Renee had told her mother earlier that
Speaker 1: morning that she had planned to be home to cook
Speaker 1: dinner for her husband sometime in the evening. Okay, so
Speaker 1: then what happens? Come on, come on, come on, tell
Speaker 1: me more. The three of them stop at a store
Speaker 1: to pick up sun some sunscreen, and then planned to
Speaker 1: spend the day at the dunes, the Indiana Dunes, which
Speaker 1: is on Lake Michigan, in case you don't know of it.
Speaker 1: Kind of nice. Yeah, it was at that time the
Speaker 1: Indiana Dunes State Park. It is now the Indiana Dunes
Speaker 1: National Park or National resor I can't remember that. It's
Speaker 1: a national park now national, Yeah, but it was a
Speaker 1: state park at the time. That means you can't like,
Speaker 1: do math or have guns. It's a safe space. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: They arrived at about ten am, which seems like a
Speaker 1: quick drive to me, but you know, it was nineteen
Speaker 1: sixty six, so maybe traffic wasn't as bad as it
Speaker 1: is now in Chicago. It's reported that there were some
Speaker 1: nine thousand visitors to that beach on the second you
Speaker 1: know holiday. It was the Saturday before July. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: it was busy. Obviously, they happened to set up next
Speaker 1: to a couple on the beach that noticed them, so
Speaker 1: they had, you know, a big beach blanket and everything
Speaker 1: like that. And the one question about about the Indiana
Speaker 1: I should have looked this up actually when I was researching,
Speaker 1: but I never actually looked at the park itself to
Speaker 1: see how long. It's like miles and miles and miles. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's miles and miles and miles long. So there's like
Speaker 1: multiple parking lots and all kinds of stuff. Okay, it
Speaker 1: sounded to me like it's a big place. And by
Speaker 1: the way, like Michigan is a big lake. I don't
Speaker 1: know if people know this, Yeah, very big. It's really big. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I mean, you know, nine thousand people over the
Speaker 1: course of a day on a Saturday on a holiday weekend.
Speaker 1: It's not as though you're you know, packed shoulder to shoulder.
Speaker 1: But it's also not as though there's no one there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but yeah, and miles and miles of beaches, nine thousand people,
Speaker 1: it's not that much really, when you think about it, it
Speaker 1: it probably wasn't that crowded. Well, and um, you know,
Speaker 1: just because they were visiting the beach. The Lake Michigan
Speaker 1: is a big boating area, so that also includes the
Speaker 1: people who were just coming to park their cars to
Speaker 1: you know, be on their boats and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: But it was enough that there were people around, you know,
Speaker 1: it wasn't abandoned. And there was this couple that sat
Speaker 1: next to where the ladies set up. I think it's
Speaker 1: they were. They were near another couple, if I remember correctly,
Speaker 1: because they were trying they were either near a tree
Speaker 1: or trying to use the shade of the tree tree.
Speaker 1: That's why they set up shop where they did, about
Speaker 1: a hundred yards away from the water. It was me
Speaker 1: as I I always stick at a nice little spot
Speaker 1: in the beach, and then immediately a big family of
Speaker 1: seventeen comes and like plunks themselves down right next to
Speaker 1: me for no reason whatsoever. This is why I don't
Speaker 1: go to the beach with you. Yeah, I know, I'm
Speaker 1: a magna for that kind of thing. Luckily I don't
Speaker 1: have that problem. Yeah, they this couple noticed these three
Speaker 1: young women, and they reported that the women were just
Speaker 1: hanging out, and then at about noon, they all three
Speaker 1: entered the water together. They were swimming around and then
Speaker 1: maybe a boat came up to them, and they all
Speaker 1: three got on the boat and went away. Because, by
Speaker 1: the way, chicks love boats. Some chicks, do you love boats? Yeah?
Speaker 1: There were a lot of boats, but this particular boat,
Speaker 1: this couple said was about fourteen to sixteen feet long.
Speaker 1: It was white, had a blue interior and outboard motor.
Speaker 1: There was a man driving the boat who was described
Speaker 1: as a I love this quote tan with a head
Speaker 1: full of coal colored curls. Quote foreign. Yeah, wearing a
Speaker 1: beach jacket. He's always wearing a beach jacket. I don't
Speaker 1: know what a beach jacket exactly is, to be honest
Speaker 1: with you, but I see it like a breaker. Okay,
Speaker 1: I just seen it on a dozen different web pages
Speaker 1: about this. I had the same thing, except I actually
Speaker 1: came across one site that said that he was wearing
Speaker 1: a life jacket, which would be smart dat Uh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this boat, this was the tri Marian. Correct, This particular boat.
Speaker 1: It was a try hole but not trimaran. They didn't
Speaker 1: know there's a sailboat with three separate holes, and try
Speaker 1: hall is just a single hole boat. But it's got
Speaker 1: like those it's got like those two big grooves in
Speaker 1: the hall. So this one they don't know. This is like,
Speaker 1: we need to pause on that because we'll talk more
Speaker 1: about what you're talking about. Second, it confused me because
Speaker 1: that's jumping ahead. This is literally the report that this
Speaker 1: couple gave this boat, which is where we're at right now.
Speaker 1: They actually used the words coal colored curls. They did, apparently. Yeah,
Speaker 1: nothing about a foreign accent, they know there was, They didn't.
Speaker 1: They just saw the guy like hand yards away. But
Speaker 1: you can still hear that foreign stop it. No, he
Speaker 1: was just a kidnapping, okay. The couple spent the rest
Speaker 1: of the day at the beach, sitting next to these
Speaker 1: three young women's clothes, and when it was getting to
Speaker 1: be dusk, they started packing up and noticed that the
Speaker 1: women hadn't come back yet, and so they were able
Speaker 1: to find a park ranger and point out, you know, hey,
Speaker 1: there's some stuff here, and there were three young women here.
Speaker 1: And they left at noon and they haven't been back yet,
Speaker 1: and then gave also the report of they got on
Speaker 1: this boat with this guy and we haven't seen them
Speaker 1: since so and the park ranger said, okay, well, I
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe they forgot about it, or maybe they
Speaker 1: went off to a party boat or something. So he
Speaker 1: collected their stuff and then kept it in the office.
Speaker 1: By the way, a couple of days. I've never seen
Speaker 1: their names, and I presume the name of this couple
Speaker 1: is just lost. I think it's just been actually have
Speaker 1: seen it. I found it, and then like an hour
Speaker 1: later I was like, oh my god, I need to
Speaker 1: write that down, and I didn't do it, and then
Speaker 1: find that web page again. Good luck. Yeah, that's the problem.
Speaker 1: It's it's they're not any any famously known names of
Speaker 1: any well, and there's no I mean, and there's there's
Speaker 1: no reason for them to be thrown into a spotlight
Speaker 1: or have their name tossed around. Because this is one
Speaker 1: of those cases that people have been really intrigued by
Speaker 1: and feel it was a little mismanaged, and so in
Speaker 1: those kinds of cases, I totally respect not giving out
Speaker 1: the first witness information because people are constantly going to
Speaker 1: be bad, yeah, or their family or whatever, saying I'm
Speaker 1: sure you guys know more. And that's just horrible. And
Speaker 1: they were just trying to be good Samaritans, so you know,
Speaker 1: why give that information. Okay, well we'll call them. We
Speaker 1: don't need to call them anything because that's that's their
Speaker 1: last in our case, we never know, we might we
Speaker 1: might talk about the age, okay. The stuff that the
Speaker 1: women had left behind, um did include purses and towels
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. And as I said, the rangers
Speaker 1: store them in their office for until the fourth when
Speaker 1: Patricia's father called the ranger station to ask about his daughter.
Speaker 1: And it turns out missing person's reports had been filed
Speaker 1: for all three young women over the weekend when they
Speaker 1: didn't come back on the night of the second. And
Speaker 1: you know, this is one of those situations where it's
Speaker 1: tough because they're all adults technically, Yeah, they can do
Speaker 1: what they want, and so they might just run off.
Speaker 1: I don't know how, yeah, how seriously it was taken.
Speaker 1: I mean, the father of Patricia is the person who
Speaker 1: had to call the ranger station at their last known location.
Speaker 1: The cops didn't even reach out all three. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: cops didn't reach out and say, hey, did you guys
Speaker 1: like find a body or something, I mean, like even
Speaker 1: something as cursory as that they didn't do. So it
Speaker 1: was a different age. It was a different age. Yeah.
Speaker 1: When the rangers get the call, they say, oh, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: what were the names of the other person? And this
Speaker 1: is you know, when you would go to state parks,
Speaker 1: you still have to do this. You fill out to
Speaker 1: you have to pay for parking. So you fill out
Speaker 1: a little slip of paper with your license number and
Speaker 1: the spot that you've parked in at this at this
Speaker 1: particular one, the spot you parked in, and then you
Speaker 1: you know, hang your little thing in the window and
Speaker 1: you drop your money with the other things in the box.
Speaker 1: So big cast iron boxing. Yeah. So they were able
Speaker 1: to actually find the record of Ann's car, which happened
Speaker 1: to still be parked in the same spot, and as
Speaker 1: luck would have it or not, her keys happened to
Speaker 1: be with the belongings that they've been holding. It totally
Speaker 1: makes sense. Yeah, And there were additional things that they
Speaker 1: found in the car, just personal effects, you know, additional
Speaker 1: clothes and stuff like that. The articles that they left
Speaker 1: on the beach in case anybody's wondering Anne had left
Speaker 1: her denim shorts, a polo shirt, her shoes, and her
Speaker 1: bathing cap, you know, just a swim cap, a comb,
Speaker 1: and her thermis. Patricia had left a yellow robes, sunglasses, transistor, radio,
Speaker 1: a white towel, and her wallet that had five dollars
Speaker 1: in it, and then Renee dollars today, right, not not quite,
Speaker 1: but it's not I mean, it's not nothing. Renee had
Speaker 1: left her beach towel, her shorts, a blouse, cigarettes, sunscreen, cents,
Speaker 1: and her purse that had like fifty dollars worth of
Speaker 1: checks in it. Now that's actually a randomly leave, yeah,
Speaker 1: I And then yeah, as I said that, more more
Speaker 1: stuff was found in the car, nothing of any couple, No, no,
Speaker 1: just you know, like coats and probably regular stuff that
Speaker 1: you find in somebody's car, probably Patricia's actual clothes because
Speaker 1: she had just left her robe, you know, things like that.
Speaker 1: So nothing out of nothing, out of the ordinary. That
Speaker 1: was all the searching he did on the fourth, because
Speaker 1: you know, holiday and stuff like that. Whatever, missing persons, whatever,
Speaker 1: we'll put that onworks off. Yeah. So finally on the
Speaker 1: it they launched their full scale investigation. And I'm gonna
Speaker 1: have full scale air quotes because there was a full
Speaker 1: scale investigation for about a couple of days, and then
Speaker 1: it was just two dudes who never two investigators who
Speaker 1: never even met each other, were in charge of the
Speaker 1: rest of this in different districts in different states. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: probably Illinois and Indiana. Yeah, And it was, you know,
Speaker 1: one state patrolman who was in charge of finding backgrounds
Speaker 1: and then another investigator. And they don't they didn't. They
Speaker 1: never met in person ever. I actually don't even know
Speaker 1: if they even spoke to each other. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: you would think so, but I think that I think
Speaker 1: they would meet to yeah, apart the full scale thing
Speaker 1: was just basically scuba divers and dragon the lake and
Speaker 1: all that stuff. And the full scale was the U. S.
Speaker 1: Coast Guard came in and they you know, had some
Speaker 1: scuba divers come down and they did and the helicopters
Speaker 1: and kind of searching for these and things like that.
Speaker 1: And initially they just searched within a tiny little radius
Speaker 1: of where the women's stuff was found, and then they
Speaker 1: expanded it. A couple of days later, they expanded it
Speaker 1: six miles along the coast or along the lake shore
Speaker 1: kind of to the southwest. I think, yeah, because I
Speaker 1: I when I saw that, I assumed the currents must
Speaker 1: move from east to west there, and then that has
Speaker 1: to be the reasoning. I guess I've presumed that that's accurate.
Speaker 1: During this time, a lot of other witnesses, reliable or not,
Speaker 1: came forward, you know, they said, hey, some young women
Speaker 1: went missing. If you guys happened to be on the beach,
Speaker 1: if anybody has information, let us know, And a lot
Speaker 1: of the stories started to conflict what the original couple
Speaker 1: had said. But the investigators kind of all agreed that
Speaker 1: they found that first report to be the most reliable
Speaker 1: and then to me, that's not so weird. I think
Speaker 1: they were able to say, these people went and did this,
Speaker 1: it's weird, and they but they it's pretty clear that
Speaker 1: they saw what happened were versus you know, nine thousand
Speaker 1: people on a beach. Three young women could be any
Speaker 1: three young women could totally have mistaken a group, you know,
Speaker 1: for that group and given a different story. So the
Speaker 1: police did pretty much say this is this is at
Speaker 1: least the start of what had happened here. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't think they ever got any actual, really actual, certifiable
Speaker 1: other witnesses to those women actually being on that beach,
Speaker 1: people that you trust, because again he put the word
Speaker 1: out to the public, and of course a lot of
Speaker 1: people are going to think there are a couple other
Speaker 1: things that did happen, and we're going to talk about
Speaker 1: that right now. Yeah, more witnesses kind of started to
Speaker 1: come forward, and one guy actually turned It turned out
Speaker 1: had been filming doing like home videos, you know, just
Speaker 1: from the family and his trip, and he had footage
Speaker 1: of two separate boats that the police identified as boats
Speaker 1: of interest. Basically, I haven't found this footage anywhere online,
Speaker 1: but though to be fair, I didn't look very hard.
Speaker 1: I tried, but so if somebody happens to find it, great,
Speaker 1: send it to us. But I kind of feel like
Speaker 1: if the guy was filming his family, then they would
Speaker 1: have been in the background and probably unrecognized, and its well,
Speaker 1: maybe recognizable. So what the footage caught basically was these
Speaker 1: two different boats that they thought were a little suspect.
Speaker 1: One was a fiberglass sixteen to eighteen foot trimaran try
Speaker 1: hole what I've heard it called trimaran, but it's I
Speaker 1: think it's really what they made. What they mean is
Speaker 1: try hole. Well, it says a trimaran run about with
Speaker 1: a three whole design. So I don't know what that
Speaker 1: means necessarily, you think it's not that important, but what
Speaker 1: I think you're probably important. Yeah, I think it probably is.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, your average a little little motor
Speaker 1: unt about. It's like get a V hole, which is
Speaker 1: basically comes down to a single keel, and in the
Speaker 1: try hole there's a central keel and then there's two
Speaker 1: outer keels also, and then there's two what they call
Speaker 1: it tunnels in between them. Oh, I know exactly what
Speaker 1: you're talking about. The bottom the boat has to two
Speaker 1: arcs in them on the bottom, and it's a flatter Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a little it's a more flatter and more square design.
Speaker 1: And that makes so much more. That's way more sense
Speaker 1: than the other try holes. I've never seen a motorized
Speaker 1: trim ran a sailboats. Yeah, yeah, well that's I was
Speaker 1: like that, that's a distinctive boat to be a true
Speaker 1: three individual holes. I was like, that's so strange. Okay,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. That makes way more sense because
Speaker 1: I did when I googled it, I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: that's I think people would have remembered that. But Okay, sure,
Speaker 1: why not, it's a little different. Yeah, So that boat
Speaker 1: the film, this person who was filming was able to
Speaker 1: see and the police from the descriptions, it sounds like
Speaker 1: the image was clear enough at least that they were
Speaker 1: able to see that there was one guy and three
Speaker 1: women on there. And the guy seemed to match at least,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of. He was wearing his whatever, a
Speaker 1: boat jacket, and he had black curly hair, and the women,
Speaker 1: you know enough, they're probably their bathing suits are probably
Speaker 1: how they matched because I think it was hair. Well
Speaker 1: it's black and white, right, but you can tell if
Speaker 1: it but to I think two of them were in
Speaker 1: bikinis and one was in a one piece if I
Speaker 1: remember right, So that would help, that would help identify
Speaker 1: if they were all in bikinis, you know, you had
Speaker 1: the wrong boat, right. But still even with that, with
Speaker 1: the film, I don't think they really got a well
Speaker 1: they didn't. So there's this other boat that was at
Speaker 1: Trojan Cabin Cruiser. That's a big boat. I don't know
Speaker 1: what that is either. He's a big boat. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: not a huge boat really, but it's a big boat.
Speaker 1: It's got a big cabin on could one call it
Speaker 1: a house boat. No, not really. I mean, you could
Speaker 1: live on a ft, but it'd be kind of cramped.
Speaker 1: But you know, you're talking bigger about you're talking like
Speaker 1: you're getting in a big boat territory, but you can.
Speaker 1: I mean, so this is important to me. A layman
Speaker 1: could look at that boat and say, it's a houseboat.
Speaker 1: Does it look like there's a little cabin on the top.
Speaker 1: Houseboats are trailers with pontoons under them, basically, But a
Speaker 1: cabin cruiser is a boat and it's it's got just
Speaker 1: a big enclosed cabin area. It's much more distinctive. It's
Speaker 1: not you know, you know, like you think of a
Speaker 1: basic rowboat design and you slap a big cabin on
Speaker 1: the top of it that takes maybe the first third
Speaker 1: or first half, and that's it. You see the ones
Speaker 1: um like the ones you always see guys doing the
Speaker 1: big fishing expeditions on TV. And that's kind of cabin
Speaker 1: cruiser style. Yeah, okay, that one was seen with three
Speaker 1: men on it and three women who might have might
Speaker 1: have been matched vaguely the description of our three missing ladies.
Speaker 1: It's just so hard to imagine a boat with three
Speaker 1: women on it. I can see what these really stood. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Well the problem here is, of course, that neither of
Speaker 1: these boats had names printed on them painted on them anywhere,
Speaker 1: or if they did, they weren't discernible. They weren't discernible,
Speaker 1: so there was no way to identify these boats. So
Speaker 1: they were kind of dead leads. But investigators also had
Speaker 1: some reports that they deemed to be reliable, that Renee
Speaker 1: and Patrician and had been seeing walking along the beach
Speaker 1: and eating a little bit after three pm on the
Speaker 1: second that some miles away from where their belongings were.
Speaker 1: It sounds like that the women had swam out to
Speaker 1: meet this boat, gotten on this smaller boat, been taken
Speaker 1: some miles away, got off, got something to eat while
Speaker 1: waiting for the larger boat to come pick them up,
Speaker 1: and then gotten on the larger boat, and then never
Speaker 1: gotten off the larger boat. Perhaps, or maybe as if
Speaker 1: you're if you're three women in bathing suits on the beach,
Speaker 1: probably a lot of guys with boats are going to
Speaker 1: approach you and say, hey, you want to write my vote,
Speaker 1: and maybe don't. And actually that that leads into something
Speaker 1: I don't remember where I read it, but I seem
Speaker 1: to remember that somebody else had come forward saying that
Speaker 1: they had seen the women's swimming in the water, and
Speaker 1: the guy had come up and done just that, Hey
Speaker 1: you want to come on board, and one of them
Speaker 1: had said, no, we can't, I'm married, as in, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm off limits. Get away, dude. So that's that's an
Speaker 1: interesting thing that this story comes out where this guy
Speaker 1: was turned down, and then the main story comes along
Speaker 1: and says they just happily climbed on board some random boat. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they might have been somebody they knew, though, I mean,
Speaker 1: or a friend of a friend. Yes, they could have
Speaker 1: been somebody that they knew. Well. I mean, that's interesting
Speaker 1: to me because I saw that one place and it
Speaker 1: was kind of like, okay, one place. But also I
Speaker 1: guess it's never explained how somebody heard that conversation. Would
Speaker 1: have been guy driving the boat who said they turned
Speaker 1: him down, because I seem to remember it being the
Speaker 1: guy who's driving the boat they told him, no, I'm married.
Speaker 1: I do remember. Reported then he like, I remember seeing
Speaker 1: that somewhere, but I've never I don't know how much
Speaker 1: how much value there is. It's just it's interesting to me,
Speaker 1: you know, because it's it's very counter to the narrative.
Speaker 1: Yeah it is, okay, well with that, we'll just leave that.
Speaker 1: Patrician and are reported to have been very strong swimmers
Speaker 1: who could swim about thirty miles. Renee was reported to
Speaker 1: have been a quote fair swimmer. But you know, by
Speaker 1: the people who are like a strong swimmer thirty miles,
Speaker 1: I don't know what fair means. I mean, I report
Speaker 1: myself to be a fair swimmer because I could save
Speaker 1: my life, but I wouldn't qualify myself as a particularly
Speaker 1: great Can you swimmer of a mile? Yeah, yeah, if
Speaker 1: I had to, I mean, it wouldn't be a fun mile,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I kind of kind of for me. It
Speaker 1: would depend on current and stuff like that, but it
Speaker 1: would be a lot of treading water and a lot
Speaker 1: of breaks and just floating up. Well, you just learn,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, this is part of I'm sorry everyone,
Speaker 1: this is part of the cruise ship training. But you
Speaker 1: there's a certain way that you can swim that you know,
Speaker 1: you could just swim for forever. Obviously it's not like
Speaker 1: battling strong currents or anything like that, but it'll get
Speaker 1: you to a place kind of I think we've talked
Speaker 1: about this before the fact that if I ever go
Speaker 1: over in in a situation like that, I am screwed.
Speaker 1: I can swim, but I am absolutely not buoyant. I
Speaker 1: sink like a rock. I don't know. I'm not that
Speaker 1: boyant either, but pretty buoyant filled with more hot air
Speaker 1: or something. Uh So, I guess it sounds like all
Speaker 1: three of them were pretty strong. They could swim, so
Speaker 1: they pretty much All of the investigators, both official and armchair,
Speaker 1: agree that three accidental drownings highly unlikely, especially with the
Speaker 1: their bodies not ever having washed on shore. And we're
Speaker 1: not talking the ocean where they could have been devoured
Speaker 1: by sharks, right, I mean, it's like Michigan. I mean,
Speaker 1: I haven't looked at the theory section yet, but is
Speaker 1: accidental drowning even in there, and it should go. I
Speaker 1: don't think it should be, because you've just made a
Speaker 1: great point. Three bodies. One of them should have washed ashore,
Speaker 1: you would think so, And for all three of them
Speaker 1: to have drowned accidentally at the same time seems pretty crazy.
Speaker 1: But unless they didn't, you know, unless they were helped
Speaker 1: to drown, unless they helped do not wash ashore. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that isn't accidental anymore, all right. So there are
Speaker 1: some more things that we're going to talk about, but
Speaker 1: I'm going to weave those into theories. So before we
Speaker 1: get to theories, let's take a quick break. A horse
Speaker 1: walks into a bar. The door hangs open behind her.
Speaker 1: She lazily looks around owned at the other patrons she
Speaker 1: size and stares down at the harry pick tending the bar.
Speaker 1: He snorts and trots away to whisper to the cranky
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Speaker 1: talking about theories now. First theory is gonna sound like
Speaker 1: one of those things we throw in here as a joke,
Speaker 1: but it actually, I think personally, the most viable of
Speaker 1: all of our theories. This theory is called the horse
Speaker 1: syndicate people theory. Remember how we talked about the Tricolor
Speaker 1: stables and George Jane and Silas Jane a little bit.
Speaker 1: I mentioned it, and then I said, remember that, and
Speaker 1: then some people were like, no, talked about Silas Jane
Speaker 1: now because they know who Siles Jane Jane is. Okay, Well,
Speaker 1: I'm going to start off by saying, if you go
Speaker 1: out and google Tricolor stables, you have to google cry
Speaker 1: Color Stables bombing or something like that, because there's a
Speaker 1: Tricolor Stables that exists in Florida and it is not
Speaker 1: the same. I think it has no relation to this one.
Speaker 1: Don't don't even go there. Well, no, I'll go there.
Speaker 1: We don't want to drive away their business. Oh yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Don't feel free to go. Don't associate them
Speaker 1: with what we're about to talk about, is what I mean. Okay,
Speaker 1: we don't want any lawsuits. The name Silas Jane may
Speaker 1: have rung about for some of you because he's kind
Speaker 1: of famous in the Chicago area, slash connected and implicated
Speaker 1: in a number of unsolved murders in the Chicago area.
Speaker 1: Let's start from the top a little bit, shall we.
Speaker 1: Silas was the eldest of eleven children, and his half brother, George,
Speaker 1: was the product of an extramarital affair on his mother's part.
Speaker 1: Silas was worn in nineteen o seven and George was
Speaker 1: born in nineteen twenty three, so there were sixteen years apart.
Speaker 1: I guess they were too close as children. I don't
Speaker 1: think so. I think, especially with the present time and everything.
Speaker 1: But you're gonna get into that in when George was
Speaker 1: just one years old. One year old Silas was convicted
Speaker 1: of rape and sent to spend a year in the
Speaker 1: state reformatory. Just a year for rape. You're welcome. It
Speaker 1: does seem kind of lied, although he would have been, well, okay,
Speaker 1: we're not. In the fifties, Silas and two of his
Speaker 1: other brothers worked at a stable then eventually became known
Speaker 1: for their horse trading and training skills and eventually opened
Speaker 1: up their own stable called the Idle Hour, and then
Speaker 1: later I'm not quite sure when, but George opened his
Speaker 1: own stable, Tricolor. Yeah, that was years later. Years later,
Speaker 1: Silas made money selling horses, subpar horses to rich fathers
Speaker 1: who had daughters who wanted to go into horse riding competitions,
Speaker 1: and there was a certain there was a certain caliber
Speaker 1: of horse that you needed for something like that, and
Speaker 1: Silas didn't really care and just lied and convinced these
Speaker 1: fathers that these horses were of that caliber. He would
Speaker 1: upsell these people in a big way. Well he I mean,
Speaker 1: these horses were horses. He would go out and catch
Speaker 1: these horses from the wild and turn around and sell
Speaker 1: them and be like, oh, it just needs to be
Speaker 1: broken in. It's just kind of like what's your average
Speaker 1: used car salesman does today? Really, I would say a
Speaker 1: little worse than He would take horses that we're bad
Speaker 1: performers or potentially ready in those times to go to
Speaker 1: the glue factory, and he would resell them as champion horses,
Speaker 1: like I used car salesman. Yeah. Idle Hour, which was Silas.
Speaker 1: The stable you remember, was in Chicago and was frequented
Speaker 1: by a lot of Chicago gangsters at the time. Uh. Silas,
Speaker 1: he's the kind of guy who um so since he
Speaker 1: had this rape conviction when he was seventeen, he was
Speaker 1: ineligible for the draft, so when the war came along,
Speaker 1: he couldn't get drafted, so he decided to just sell
Speaker 1: horse meat instead. That's how he made money. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: then he made a lot of friends with a lot
Speaker 1: of famous gangsters in Chicago at the time, and they
Speaker 1: often frequented Idle Hour. And though he was a savvy businessman,
Speaker 1: he was a huge bully and a heavy drinker. And
Speaker 1: I don't think he had a steak in George's Tricolor
Speaker 1: stables at all, but they were rivals. Silas did what
Speaker 1: he does best and planted a car bomb on George's car.
Speaker 1: He didn't do it himself. Well, he had someone do it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we know that actually that he was behind them.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, you're right, it's strongly suspected that he was
Speaker 1: wrongly suspected. Again. Yeah, they're brothers, but all their half brothers,
Speaker 1: but apparently no love lost. They're actually business competitors. Yeah. Um, well,
Speaker 1: and unfortunately that car bomb went off when a woman
Speaker 1: named Cherylyn Rude went to move George's car for him.
Speaker 1: You got it, I kind of. I've always suspected that
Speaker 1: perhaps George had an inkling that maybe the car was
Speaker 1: not safe to drive, I don't know, car for me. Well,
Speaker 1: he It turns out after that he rigged this system
Speaker 1: with a really long pull with his key attached to it,
Speaker 1: so that he could start the car from a safe distance.
Speaker 1: Every Yeah. Yeah, he was sticking through the passengers window,
Speaker 1: turn it and let the car start, and then turn
Speaker 1: it off and you know, put his stick away and
Speaker 1: go straf car again. Yeah. Obviously at that point then
Speaker 1: you want to put the bomb in the passenger side
Speaker 1: facing outward. Yeah, yeah, you do. Well. George eventually was
Speaker 1: actually murdered. It took three attempts at least before they
Speaker 1: got it. Yeah. Yeah, police of course assumed that Silas
Speaker 1: was to blame for the bomb and for the murder,
Speaker 1: but they couldn't prove it. So there's that. Patricia, you
Speaker 1: will remember, had her prize winning horse stable at the Tricolor,
Speaker 1: which George owned. The bombing was in sixty five, so
Speaker 1: just a year before the women went disappearing, went disappeared,
Speaker 1: disappeared before they left the split split. Yeah. In March
Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty six, Patricia acquired what is um quoted
Speaker 1: as a face injury which may have been inflicted by
Speaker 1: a fist or stairs. Such a weird description. When her
Speaker 1: family asked her what happened, she kind of brushed it
Speaker 1: off and just said that she was having some problems
Speaker 1: with the quote horse syndicate people, which is where we
Speaker 1: get the title for this theory. The theory goes then
Speaker 1: that the women who wrote at Tricolor all the time
Speaker 1: had witnessed the bombing or the placement of the bomb,
Speaker 1: or could some one of them or yeah, or one
Speaker 1: of them, or could somehow otherwise implicate Silas in the crime,
Speaker 1: and so he was bullying them into not talking, but
Speaker 1: decided that that wasn't quite enough, and so he needed
Speaker 1: to have them murdered. So the thing to keep in
Speaker 1: mind is the car bomb went off, went off in
Speaker 1: Silas went to trial, and I think it was a
Speaker 1: four month long trial, and the trial had ended just
Speaker 1: the month before they disappeared. So I think it was
Speaker 1: the beginning of June that that he had been that
Speaker 1: he had been cleared of the case. It was acquitted. Yeah,
Speaker 1: to add to this theory, there are a lot of
Speaker 1: also's in this theory. To add to the theory, in
Speaker 1: late sixty six, Silas claimed to have bodies of three
Speaker 1: women buried under his house, and police took this claim
Speaker 1: seriously and planned to dig it up. But I don't
Speaker 1: know why I have heard about this claim, but and
Speaker 1: I've actually heard it said that he told police that
Speaker 1: he had three bodies buried under his house. Why would
Speaker 1: anybody do that? Because he was insane. He was insane,
Speaker 1: he was legit insane. He also also his phone number
Speaker 1: was found in the purse of at least one of
Speaker 1: the women. I think it was Patricia, but I can't
Speaker 1: be certain. I think it was in Patricia's purse, but
Speaker 1: it was in one of the persons. I heard this also,
Speaker 1: but was hit his personal phone number or his number
Speaker 1: at the stable. I think it was his personal phone number.
Speaker 1: I think that it would have been said that it
Speaker 1: was the number. Yeah, And and then it would have
Speaker 1: been the idle hour stable, which none of them they were,
Speaker 1: they're using tricolor. Also, also of note, Silas is suspected
Speaker 1: in the nineteen murders of three young boys known as
Speaker 1: the Peterson Schusler murders. And he's also implicated implicated in
Speaker 1: the murders of the Grime Sisters. And then as we said,
Speaker 1: the murder of George, his brother, the murder. And then
Speaker 1: also there are some other last quote unquote noteworthy when
Speaker 1: he when he took out George. Finally, how did you
Speaker 1: get him? He was shot in the head while playing
Speaker 1: cards through a basement window. Yeah, And I think is
Speaker 1: it the Grime sisters, the ones who know that was
Speaker 1: somebody different who was calling him out and going to
Speaker 1: report to the authorities his scam on what he did
Speaker 1: with horses, you know, selling crappy horses as super fancy horses.
Speaker 1: How was somebody else who also happened to die, Yes,
Speaker 1: who happened to disappear and die? Yeah? Also also also,
Speaker 1: Patricia's boyfriend at the time was an ex con cowboy
Speaker 1: who lived in California, and you know that was John
Speaker 1: Paul Jones, right, yeah, and he maintains that he was innocent.
Speaker 1: By the way, I don't think he was married. I know,
Speaker 1: I said earlier the boyfriends might have been married, but
Speaker 1: I don't think this guy was. I heard that one
Speaker 1: of them was married, but not not. I think that
Speaker 1: Ann's boyfriend might have been married, but Patricia's ex con
Speaker 1: California cowboy boyfriend was. No. I think he was in California.
Speaker 1: I think kind of shady character. Yeah, I know. There's
Speaker 1: a theory out there. It says the reason that these
Speaker 1: three young women had Silas's phone number was because they
Speaker 1: were working as like call girl date girls for him,
Speaker 1: and that they that he had set up a date
Speaker 1: yeah something like necessarily anything sexual but no, no, no,
Speaker 1: but you know, like paid date time or whatever. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then that's why there were three men on that
Speaker 1: large boat and three young women on that large boat,
Speaker 1: and that, you know, I don't know, something that wrong,
Speaker 1: I guess or I don't know, or they decided to
Speaker 1: sell them, you know, like sell them. Uh. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think about the whole murder thing by by Silas is
Speaker 1: that he waited a long time, like a whole year
Speaker 1: between the bombing and the actual disappearance of the women.
Speaker 1: And also he had already been on trial and essentially acquitted,
Speaker 1: so it's like, you know, you couldn't be tried again
Speaker 1: for it anyway. So I actually don't think that he
Speaker 1: waited all that long though. I mean, he he probably
Speaker 1: felt like he was going to get away with it,
Speaker 1: and then he had to go to you know, it's
Speaker 1: arrested and goes through trial. And I could see this
Speaker 1: being a situation of cleaning up all the loose ends
Speaker 1: just in case. But he had already been to trial
Speaker 1: and acquitted by the time they disappeared, right, he had
Speaker 1: been to trial. I don't know if he was acquitted. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the thing about it is too, is there were
Speaker 1: other witnesses to the guys actually planting the bomb in
Speaker 1: the car I heard, and these people their names were
Speaker 1: published in the papers, and none of them got killed.
Speaker 1: And there's no evidence that any of the three women
Speaker 1: actually saw anything or new anything. Well, but you know,
Speaker 1: but it could also be So there's the whole she
Speaker 1: was having problems with the horse that the good people,
Speaker 1: and that that brus could have simply have come from
Speaker 1: a horse worked with animals, and that was the reason. Okay,
Speaker 1: But but the what I'm saying here is that if
Speaker 1: she's having problems with them, and somehow Silas is involved
Speaker 1: in this, and she knows, she could have foolishly mouthed
Speaker 1: off and said, listen, cut it out, or I'm going
Speaker 1: to tell everybody that I know something and I saw
Speaker 1: you there, I mean, you know, making claims that could
Speaker 1: have put her in the hot seat and was not
Speaker 1: a good negotiating tactic. Here's my two things about that.
Speaker 1: First of all, the fact that she said somebody punched her,
Speaker 1: when in fact it would have been really easy for
Speaker 1: her to say a horse hit me means that she
Speaker 1: probably was trying to tell someone something right to make
Speaker 1: at least. Second of all, Silas was involved in so
Speaker 1: many shady things that it doesn't have to be even
Speaker 1: a little bit connected to the bombing. In my mind
Speaker 1: that they, at least one of them could have known
Speaker 1: something about anything that he had done and said, hey,
Speaker 1: i'm gonna we're gonna tell yeah, you hang out in
Speaker 1: the stable as you probably hear some scuttle, but you know,
Speaker 1: I mean it wasn't just them talking to George or
Speaker 1: the talk of the silas or whatever. It was like,
Speaker 1: you know, there's all kinds of people hanging around. There
Speaker 1: were other mobsters hanging around there, maybe wanted to, like,
Speaker 1: you know, pick up on these girls and press these
Speaker 1: girls and stuff like that. Who knows that they actually heard, Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course it's all at hearsay. Also, so it's like
Speaker 1: whether it was any danger or just silence, I'm not
Speaker 1: so sure. So so back to the whole date on
Speaker 1: the boat thing. So you were saying, so I'm assuming
Speaker 1: I just want to flesh that out a little bit.
Speaker 1: You said, you know, and then something went wrong. I'm
Speaker 1: assuming that means that something went wrong and one of
Speaker 1: them died, and to cover it up they killed all
Speaker 1: three and waited in the drums at the bottom. That
Speaker 1: seems to be the kind of going theory. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of theories that involved that sort of And then
Speaker 1: something went wrong and they had to kill all three
Speaker 1: of them, and why I don't know, But yeah, there's
Speaker 1: always I kind of like the white slavery theory. That's
Speaker 1: your favorite theory for literally everything. You could be talking
Speaker 1: about when did Yeah, actually in that area, it was
Speaker 1: an issue. It still is. It's still but at that
Speaker 1: time is always a thing that's happening a lot right now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean it's possible. It's possible, certainly. I
Speaker 1: I think that's a kind of a weak one in
Speaker 1: this particular case, but it is completely plausible based on
Speaker 1: the people they were hanging around with. So I noticed
Speaker 1: that you don't have on your list any popular killers,
Speaker 1: and I'm surprised. I mean, Silas Jaane is a pretty
Speaker 1: popular killer. Let's be honest here, known convicted killer. How
Speaker 1: about that? Okay, So we're not going to debate that.
Speaker 1: I have to that. I didn't know if you wanted
Speaker 1: to talk about if you want, you okay. So there's
Speaker 1: one and I'm gonna probably butcher the pronunciation of this town.
Speaker 1: But it's the Yipsilante ripper John Norman Collins or Chapman.
Speaker 1: His name is different in places, but he's the guy
Speaker 1: who between sixty seven and sixty nine he killed like
Speaker 1: seven or eight women. He started out like once once
Speaker 1: a year, once every eight months, and then suddenly at
Speaker 1: the very end it it escalated and he killed a
Speaker 1: whole bunch of people or women from seven to six, right,
Speaker 1: So this would be his kind of his big getting things.
Speaker 1: He's starting with three women at once. That's ambitious. He
Speaker 1: kind of matched the description. He's not too far off
Speaker 1: of the area, a couple hundred miles away, so yeah,
Speaker 1: that that's a jaunt. But you never know with these
Speaker 1: kind of things. The other one that I saw was
Speaker 1: Richard Spec And if anybody doesn't know who he is,
Speaker 1: he's the guy that in on July nineteen sixty six,
Speaker 1: which is ten or twelve days prior, he killed eight
Speaker 1: nursing students, eight women in their house. He was he
Speaker 1: said he was on some you know, he was drunk
Speaker 1: and he was black out drunk. But he he butchered
Speaker 1: all of them, and he obviously would have had the
Speaker 1: capacity to do that. So they're they're two ones that
Speaker 1: are right there in the area that could have been earlies. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess that's true, that that second one, Spec, I
Speaker 1: guess I'm will more willing to believe him than the
Speaker 1: other one. Well, in the problem with spec specting clean up, Yeah,
Speaker 1: he didn't clean up. And also, um, why not just
Speaker 1: I mean, if you've you've brutally murdered eight women, what's
Speaker 1: another three? Well they're warmups, but I mean crap, but
Speaker 1: I mean to not say. Also, well he he tried to,
Speaker 1: you know, to play games as all these guys draped.
Speaker 1: Did I want to them own a boat? Not that
Speaker 1: I know of, but I haven't seen that in there.
Speaker 1: But they were both Um so Spec was in his
Speaker 1: mid twenties at the time and John Norman I think
Speaker 1: was eighteen or nineteen at the time. That's why I
Speaker 1: feel like he could have matched the description. That's why
Speaker 1: I looked him like, check this out. Yeah, the man
Speaker 1: is described as being in his mid twenties. Ish's you know,
Speaker 1: is hard because it's kind of when you start looking
Speaker 1: like you're any age. But yeah, I mean those are
Speaker 1: two good theories. I guess they're suspects that are out
Speaker 1: there that these people are always trying to tie people
Speaker 1: who did bad deeds into so many other cases, so
Speaker 1: I'm amazed that that hasn't happened with this one. They
Speaker 1: would do it, Yeah, that's a good idea, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I could see where he would like to decide, Hey,
Speaker 1: you know, I want to start saal killing and I
Speaker 1: know I've got this great idea I'm going to go
Speaker 1: down to this beach with a boat, and I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna pick up a girl, take her out in the lake,
Speaker 1: and kill her. And then he discovered. He gets out
Speaker 1: there and discovers, hey, no individual woman is kind of
Speaker 1: willing to climb into my boat alone with me. Uh,
Speaker 1: And so he winds up with three women's okay, well
Speaker 1: I let's just roll with the punches. Yeah. Yeah, for me,
Speaker 1: for it to be one person is always pretty incredible
Speaker 1: to me, particularly since all three of these women were
Speaker 1: pretty strong swimmers. Don't you think at least one of
Speaker 1: them would have tried to escape? Um, if you're in
Speaker 1: a motorized boat and somebody is swimming away, you know what,
Speaker 1: it's very easy to do him over, run him over.
Speaker 1: Oh she got away. Well I'll finish what I'm doing
Speaker 1: because we're out in the middle of the lake, and
Speaker 1: then I'll just take care of her true story. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's fair. The next theory is a little bit of
Speaker 1: a sensitive topic this islar though it's a very popular theory. Um,
Speaker 1: But just so you guys know, if anybody needs to
Speaker 1: take a break for this one, feel free, or if
Speaker 1: you don't want to hear it. We're going to talk
Speaker 1: about aliens. The next one, it's about abortions and was
Speaker 1: apparently pregnant. Three months pregnant sounds like angely. I've also
Speaker 1: heard that Patricia was pregnant, but I'm not sure where
Speaker 1: that information comes from. I've also heard that all three
Speaker 1: of them were pregnant, but I have no idea where
Speaker 1: that information comes from. I don't think Renee was pregnant.
Speaker 1: I think her she's just she's not pregnant. She is
Speaker 1: the one married one day, but I think her family
Speaker 1: would have known, but maybe not. An had talked about
Speaker 1: entering a home for unwed mothers before her disappearance. And
Speaker 1: now this is six so that's seven years before Roe v. Wade.
Speaker 1: So abortion is super illegal at the time everywhere everywhere,
Speaker 1: well not everywhere. It was. It was legal in some
Speaker 1: American states, but it was not none of not not
Speaker 1: in the mid West where they were at now. And
Speaker 1: as we know, when something is illegal, we just make
Speaker 1: it in our bathtubs and get on with life. So
Speaker 1: that's what they did. I'm sorry there's this. There was
Speaker 1: this well known man named Hank Largo in the Chicago
Speaker 1: area at that time, and he, along with his wife, Helen,
Speaker 1: helped women who were in a family way who did
Speaker 1: not want to be in a family way out by
Speaker 1: providing abortions. Yeah. Um, they operated out of a houseboat
Speaker 1: is what it's described as floating on you guessed it, Lake, Michigan.
Speaker 1: I've also heard that maybe they operated out of Gary, Indiana.
Speaker 1: But to be honest, I don't know why you wouldn't
Speaker 1: just operate multiple locations or move your operation a lot.
Speaker 1: It's illegal and people are going to come after you
Speaker 1: if yeah, eventually somebody's can figure out and if you
Speaker 1: move around a lot yet, Yeah, especially if you're like
Speaker 1: on a houseboat that boat around Yeah, well yeah, if
Speaker 1: you have actually a good charts, you know, and you
Speaker 1: know whether the demarcation between say Illinois Indiana is when
Speaker 1: the Illinois State Police and the lawn just start coming
Speaker 1: after you's like right, yeah, yeah. The so Helen and
Speaker 1: Hank's nephew, Ralph Largo Jr. It sounds like maybe ran
Speaker 1: a bit of a fairy transport to help young women
Speaker 1: get to this house boat and also, you know, make
Speaker 1: sure that they never knew. I mean, that's what you
Speaker 1: kind of want. You want somebody to transport people there
Speaker 1: because to the dock, right, But also you can you know,
Speaker 1: load your women into a smaller craft and you ride
Speaker 1: around Lake Michigan, drop them off, pick them up again,
Speaker 1: you know, do whatever you need to do to make
Speaker 1: sure that they don't know where in the lake they
Speaker 1: are so that nobody can go to the yeast later
Speaker 1: and say there was a houseboat and it was here.
Speaker 1: It could be a totally a totally good cut out
Speaker 1: to you know, he shows up and he doesn't say, hey,
Speaker 1: you're ready for to the abortion, you know, Instead you
Speaker 1: show up and say, hey, you girls want to go
Speaker 1: for a ride, absolutely, and that they know what kind
Speaker 1: of but they know that's why they went. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: this would explain a lot. But so the theory goes
Speaker 1: before we get a little too far into it. Obviously,
Speaker 1: the theory goes that either just An or In and
Speaker 1: Patricia or all three of them were pregnant. They were
Speaker 1: able to contact Hank and uh find out you know,
Speaker 1: or get this procedure started, wanted friends with them. I'm
Speaker 1: just going to go on the assumption that Anne was
Speaker 1: the only one that was pregnant, but she wanted her
Speaker 1: two good friends with her, probably for safety, but also
Speaker 1: for emotional support and things like that. Something goes wrong,
Speaker 1: it's box. So they kill them all and I don't know,
Speaker 1: throw them overboard or something. They just probably kept some
Speaker 1: weights around for that very purpose and then they moved
Speaker 1: the house boat and then never to be wise. Yeah,
Speaker 1: one of the problems I have with this theory. I'm
Speaker 1: not totally discounting it. But they went off into the
Speaker 1: water wearing bathing suits and then get into the boat
Speaker 1: and go off for their abortions. And I've never had
Speaker 1: an abortion, believe it or not, But I'm not sure
Speaker 1: is that is a bathing suit what you want to
Speaker 1: be wearing like act you've had your abortion. No, No,
Speaker 1: that's there. There is. Convalescing is what you would want
Speaker 1: to do, more so than playing in the beach running
Speaker 1: around in your bathing suit. That would be much more
Speaker 1: conducive to your your recuperation. However, on the other hand,
Speaker 1: if this operation is happening on a houseboat and it's
Speaker 1: super illegal, you're gonna want to try to keep all
Speaker 1: of the attention away from you as possible. So you're
Speaker 1: going to go in your bathing suit because it's unsuspicious
Speaker 1: for you to be swimming around. You may you may
Speaker 1: even spend the night on this houseboat recuperating. I don't know.
Speaker 1: They likely have, you know, robes and other clothes on
Speaker 1: the house boat for you to be able to help
Speaker 1: cover yourself up and feel better in. But I mean,
Speaker 1: you do what you have to do in situations that
Speaker 1: are that illegal. I will certainly it's not the ideal situation,
Speaker 1: but a back alley illegal abortion on a houseboat isn't
Speaker 1: the ideal situation either, so I understand that. And the
Speaker 1: weather was super hot I think it was like nineties
Speaker 1: some degrees that day, but I could I mean, if
Speaker 1: this guy is going to pick you up, he could
Speaker 1: just as easily have picked you up at one of
Speaker 1: the docks that's around the area, And you could whoever
Speaker 1: was going to have the procedure could have instead of
Speaker 1: water around a bikini, how a sun dress on that
Speaker 1: That isn't you know what I'm dancing It wasn't like
Speaker 1: that was the only access the lake, right, Well, there's that,
Speaker 1: And what else I'm also dancing around is that there's
Speaker 1: likely to be apparent bleeding after the fact that is
Speaker 1: very noticeable in a in a wimen suit. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: that's that's why I have such a problem, and I
Speaker 1: agree with Joe in this particular one have been something.
Speaker 1: I agree that it's definitely not a full proof theory,
Speaker 1: but I also agree that it's not the worst theory
Speaker 1: out there, except with the exception of well, no, what
Speaker 1: the exception of something went wrong and they killed three
Speaker 1: women because an abortion was botched. I mean it's I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, well, the thing about it is is that
Speaker 1: when abortions get screwed up. And again I'm not an expert,
Speaker 1: by the way, and this is a this is a
Speaker 1: touchy subject, and I think we all understand and agree
Speaker 1: with that. Well, yeah, it's usually it's usually complications after
Speaker 1: the fact, and it's not like somebody's getting abortion and
Speaker 1: they just immediately kick off. I mean, it's usually it
Speaker 1: takes a little while. Yeah, I mean, it is an operation,
Speaker 1: so it could be you know, somebody could bleed out
Speaker 1: on the table. Conceivably, I don't know if that's more
Speaker 1: likely they would die from SEPs as much as you know,
Speaker 1: somewhat late. Sure, But I mean even if in the
Speaker 1: instance that you know, somebody bleeds out on the table,
Speaker 1: you know, for you to turn around to be like, well,
Speaker 1: I guess manslaughter is my only option here instead of
Speaker 1: you know, saying she knew the risks, she decided to
Speaker 1: go through with it. Anyway, Let's figure out if there's
Speaker 1: a way. I don't know it's it's just turning straight
Speaker 1: to manslaughter. Is like, I don't I don't think that's manslaughter.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you turn around you kill the other
Speaker 1: two to keep it quiet, I think that's more than manlater,
Speaker 1: but I mean, well, okay, so let's let's look at
Speaker 1: it from the other side, from your perspective, and just
Speaker 1: go to the other side of whoever was getting the
Speaker 1: procedure does die and the other two or one of
Speaker 1: the other two completely loses her mind and starts to again,
Speaker 1: this is the same thing I'm going to wrap you
Speaker 1: us making threats, and this is your livelihood and you
Speaker 1: do illegal things. Yeah, that's one more illegal thing, okay,
Speaker 1: to more things. That's true. Yeah for me, I guess
Speaker 1: I just have a hard time because there Because here's
Speaker 1: the thing is the illegal thing they are doing is
Speaker 1: an illegal thing. They are doing to help provide health
Speaker 1: access to women who need it. Right, They're not like
Speaker 1: slinging back alley super dangerous drugs. They're not out, you know,
Speaker 1: thieving and things like that. They're trying to provide a
Speaker 1: medical service that women need. So for me, no, no,
Speaker 1: it's not, that's true. But what I'm saying is that
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to put myself in the in the
Speaker 1: boots of um Hank and Helen right as the medical
Speaker 1: providers here. It's they're doing an illegal thing for good
Speaker 1: from their point of view, right, They're not doing an
Speaker 1: illegal thing for their own profit, for their own maybe
Speaker 1: for a little monetary profit, but not They are not murderers, right,
Speaker 1: They are not common thieves and criminals. So for me
Speaker 1: to say, like, hey, these doctors who are providing this
Speaker 1: medical procedure for people, what's another murder on top of that, Like,
Speaker 1: that's a pretty big stretch for me. That's at the
Speaker 1: same time, you know, even though I agree these people
Speaker 1: probably weren't the kind of people to just cold bloodedly
Speaker 1: murder people in a situation like that where these you know,
Speaker 1: a woman is like Steve says, flips out, says, you're
Speaker 1: an incompetent moron. I'm going to take this to the
Speaker 1: police right now. You I can see where you would
Speaker 1: panic and just like grab a blunt instrument and just
Speaker 1: hammer and both I could totally see that. I will
Speaker 1: admit that. I just I'm taking exception with the idea
Speaker 1: of like, what's another murder medical procedure? I mean, and
Speaker 1: I would be careful to when you're doing that, devon,
Speaker 1: because you're saying that they have you know, they don't
Speaker 1: have the scruples to be bad people and just do
Speaker 1: it because they're in it for the money, because they
Speaker 1: could potentially be that kind of person people. And I
Speaker 1: admit I didn't do a whole lot of reading on
Speaker 1: these two because it makes me feel better because I
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time on Silas. Yeah. So that's
Speaker 1: but I think we've I think we've established this one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's the second theory. Third fourth, I don't know
Speaker 1: if we're counting your weird serial killer. What about the
Speaker 1: water spout? When are we going to get the water spout?
Speaker 1: The water spout? There wasn't a water pop. But what
Speaker 1: about the water crib? Water crib? There was a water crib.
Speaker 1: We can talk about that. I guess sure, Well, that's
Speaker 1: the water inlets that when they found the boat parts, Yeah,
Speaker 1: they did find some boat parts. It was a seat
Speaker 1: and yeah, so it could have been stuff that was
Speaker 1: thrown overboard. It could have been, you know, a boat
Speaker 1: crash from weeks again, the boat crib was the crib
Speaker 1: was like a giant intake for a water supply for
Speaker 1: what this it's a city of Gary. Was it city
Speaker 1: of Gary, Indiana? Or serves Does it serve Chicago? I
Speaker 1: don't remember which city it serves now, but it's Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a giant creep pillar that's got a processing plant
Speaker 1: in the middle of it. It's way out in the lake. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so presumably they put filters in the screens so
Speaker 1: people and boat still get sucked into it, I'm assuming,
Speaker 1: And they also set a bunch of divers down around it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because divers searched all around that thing, because they presumed
Speaker 1: that on this fun boat ride they smashed headlong into it,
Speaker 1: they all sunk. And that's why. Yeah, I mean, there
Speaker 1: was no boat that was reported missing or crashed or
Speaker 1: anything like that, but I don't I don't put a
Speaker 1: lot of stock and I mean there was there was,
Speaker 1: there's no boat found there. Yeah, So yeah, I have
Speaker 1: a couple of the theories. I know that, Steve, do
Speaker 1: you have another one today? Okay? Well, I guess our
Speaker 1: final theories aliens or stage or something. One of Patty's
Speaker 1: friends did mention Patricia. One of Patricia's friends did mention
Speaker 1: that she told them that she was planning to stage
Speaker 1: her own disappearance, which I don't know. Maybe, I guess
Speaker 1: is a lot to leave behind. Line check. Yeah, police
Speaker 1: report that Renee's marriage may have been in trouble because
Speaker 1: they found a letter in her person. Yeah, they've been
Speaker 1: married fifteen months and she had written a letter that
Speaker 1: said that he spent too much time working on hot
Speaker 1: rod cars with his friends and she wanted to end it.
Speaker 1: But her husband says that he didn't know of any
Speaker 1: issues because he was too busy working on hot rod
Speaker 1: The typical duty has no idea, no idea. But the
Speaker 1: family agreed, and people pretty much assumed that she just
Speaker 1: had this note because she had it and had written
Speaker 1: it when she was angry one night, and then just
Speaker 1: didn't ever plan on giving it. Not unheard of, No,
Speaker 1: I get it now. That possibility is that whoever was
Speaker 1: pregnant was it was Anne. It was told that was
Speaker 1: certifiably pregnant. Yeah, that was an okay, Yeah, maybe her
Speaker 1: boyfriend decided to offer although again I don't really understand
Speaker 1: offering all three of them versus just her. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't quite get that. Yeah, I don't either. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: to go after all three it was especial beach. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the reason people mentioned that they
Speaker 1: might have been married is like, well, maybe one of
Speaker 1: the wives came after them, and or why the boyfriends
Speaker 1: were married. I don't know. I don't think. I think
Speaker 1: the Silas Jane or the abortion theories are the best ones,
Speaker 1: but the convenience. The thing that helps with the story
Speaker 1: when you think about when you see these stuff about
Speaker 1: well it was the one of the wives or it
Speaker 1: was somebody else that killed all three of them when
Speaker 1: they were in the area is the fact that the
Speaker 1: dunes in that area are constantly shifting, and so it
Speaker 1: is entirely possible that somebody could have buried them at
Speaker 1: the base of a dune, and those are living dunes,
Speaker 1: meaning they're moving all the time, and they could have
Speaker 1: been buried, you know, just a couple of feet down,
Speaker 1: and the dune does all of the hard work and
Speaker 1: covers all of the evidence for which might pop out.
Speaker 1: One of these might well there is people do think
Speaker 1: that there's probably some additional evidence that got buried in
Speaker 1: the dunes at some point, but they I don't think
Speaker 1: people really think that their bodies are but I mean
Speaker 1: it's possible, but I don't know. You also see the
Speaker 1: stuff about so there's at Mount Baldy, which is right
Speaker 1: near there, there's the stuff about the holes. You guys
Speaker 1: saw those articles. Didn't because it's a moving dune. It's
Speaker 1: it's swallowed up entire trees, which of them rotted out,
Speaker 1: and the sand is just kind of barely held together
Speaker 1: in a column, an open air column. And a boy
Speaker 1: fell in a couple of years ago. But people was like, well,
Speaker 1: maybe they all got swallowed. That's a mighty huge coincidence.
Speaker 1: That is a very huge tree to have to have
Speaker 1: rotted out and not collapsed prior maybe they all three fellow,
Speaker 1: three separate holes. You're walking side by side, and wow,
Speaker 1: there's a good sides for it. But yeah, that would
Speaker 1: have happened. And and by the way, just y uh,
Speaker 1: as far as I know, in that area, there were
Speaker 1: never any trees anywhere near big enough to swallow three women. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: there the holes are like twelve. I heard that phenomenon
Speaker 1: even occurs around here. Now at our dunes and so
Speaker 1: be careful out there. Wear a rope, a long long rope,
Speaker 1: have your friends holding the other end. Yeah, that'll save you. Yeah.
Speaker 1: At what they do is they do is they tie
Speaker 1: it to the back of their their four wheel. Drawing
Speaker 1: you how many more theories? Anybody your favorite theory? I
Speaker 1: kind of like the theory that it was a Chinese
Speaker 1: submarine and yeah they were defecting to China and in
Speaker 1: Lake Michigan. Yeah that could have been that, right, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: let's see. Other than that. No, really, I actually think
Speaker 1: my favorite theory is that it probably was they were
Speaker 1: probably a random murder, maybe a serial killers, that type
Speaker 1: of guy, because I don't see that Silas had any
Speaker 1: pick in the motivation. Of course, again, silence is everybody's
Speaker 1: we didn't know about well yeah, totally for sure, But
Speaker 1: I mean, silence is everybody's favorite for this whole thing.
Speaker 1: But if you look at Silas's typical murder, m oh,
Speaker 1: this is pretty out there. This is pretty different for
Speaker 1: Silas to do it this particularly, I mean, Salad is
Speaker 1: more the kind of guy to either you know, plant
Speaker 1: a bomb in your car or just to have his
Speaker 1: guys take you out. Somewhere in a field and put
Speaker 1: a bullet in your brain. Well, he so the two
Speaker 1: other murders, the big ones that he was implicated in,
Speaker 1: the one of the three younger boys, and then the
Speaker 1: grime sisters, those were bodies that were murdered and then
Speaker 1: dropped in ditches by the side of the road. So
Speaker 1: this wouldn't be so far different from that necessarily. I mean,
Speaker 1: you killed three people and they drop him in the
Speaker 1: lake instead. And I think that's one of the reasons
Speaker 1: that people really think that he looks good for this,
Speaker 1: because there was at least a tenuous connection between them
Speaker 1: and him. You can you can say they may have
Speaker 1: met and he I mean, he was a rapist. You
Speaker 1: hate to say it, but he was a rapist. And um,
Speaker 1: you know, it's possible that he had just seen them
Speaker 1: and thought, oh, hey, I know, I'll bring them on
Speaker 1: my boat. I'll rape them and i'll murder them, and
Speaker 1: I'll just have a convenient dropping places that could have
Speaker 1: been it. And maybe he and his buddies we're going
Speaker 1: to have just a whole rape, fast, good old time.
Speaker 1: But you know, and and this is another possibility, and
Speaker 1: but I don't know, this might be just a little
Speaker 1: too subtle and clever for silas. Yeah, I think we're
Speaker 1: getting but but let me point this out. There's actually
Speaker 1: only one pair of witnesses who saw the girls there,
Speaker 1: reliable witnesses. That was the couple, the married couple who
Speaker 1: supposedly were next to them. But if you really wanted
Speaker 1: to be clever about disappearing these three, what you do is,
Speaker 1: you know, you just have some people say you kidnapped him.
Speaker 1: He takes some of their effects. You have some of
Speaker 1: your accomplices go down to the beach and say, hey,
Speaker 1: you know they were right next to us. They went off,
Speaker 1: and you've got in a boat with the guy that
Speaker 1: had a mop of curly, cold black hair. Yeah. What
Speaker 1: we're getting into now, Joe, is that part that makes
Speaker 1: our listeners uncomfortable and think that maybe you are actually
Speaker 1: a serial kid. Yeah, exactly. But what I'm saying is
Speaker 1: that we don't actually even know that they were at
Speaker 1: that park. I mean, you don't really honestly. I mean technically, yeah,
Speaker 1: technically that's true. Yeah, I think they probably were, but
Speaker 1: well no, yes, I mean that's all I'm saying is
Speaker 1: that we don't actually know that they disappeared. I think
Speaker 1: they were probably were, but I wouldn't. I'm not a
Speaker 1: sure so I think I Silas is my favorite theory
Speaker 1: for how you know, there are madrid of different reasons
Speaker 1: that he could have done it, or how he could
Speaker 1: have done it or whatever, but I think he did it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm not convinced of anything. I do not
Speaker 1: believe that they voluntarily took off on their own, but
Speaker 1: after that, I just I'm not willing to throw my
Speaker 1: hat onto any one of these voluntarily. You mean they
Speaker 1: disappeared themselves. Yes, I think they did voluntarily climate of
Speaker 1: that boat. Oh yeah, I just go start new lives. Yeah, out,
Speaker 1: now that's kind of rare. Okay, Well, um, all of
Speaker 1: that having been said, UM, I think we're going to
Speaker 1: wrap this one up. Don't forget to check out our
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Speaker 1: think that's it for us. I'm gonna cruise on out
Speaker 1: of here. Oh, once again I got nothing. Vaminos