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Speaker 1: That's s I M p l I Safe dot com

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Speaker 1: slash Criminal. Sideways up brought the stories of things we

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Speaker 1: simply don't know the answer to. Hey, guys, welcome to

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Speaker 1: another episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast I Am Devin,

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Speaker 1: joined as usual by and Steve, the Boys the Dudes

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Speaker 1: at It's Okay. This week we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: the Indiana Dunes disappearance, and it was suggested by Francesca.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Francesco, but it's one that I personally known about

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Speaker 1: for a really long time. She just happened to suggest

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Speaker 1: it too, and then other people have suggested since then.

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Speaker 1: Probably sorry about that. Yeah, you might feel left out,

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Speaker 1: but we read your emails, I swear. Yeah. So this

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Speaker 1: disappearance includes three women. You'll often see girls, but they

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Speaker 1: weren't girls. They were young women and they were named

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Speaker 1: Anne Miller, Patricia Blow, and Renee Browl in July of

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Speaker 1: nineteen six d six years ago. Man. Yeah, and oddly

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Speaker 1: all three of their Charlie Project pages are different slightly lately.

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Speaker 1: They're actually all cut and pasted and then modified. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they are, but it's still kind of weird because they

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Speaker 1: disappeared together. So it seems like the information it should

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Speaker 1: be first paragraph is unique and last paragraph even the

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Speaker 1: body should be the same, but it's not. I agree

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Speaker 1: they should weird in there. Yeah, they should all actually

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Speaker 1: have to have just one page. I think, well, there

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Speaker 1: three different women. So um, so we're gonna go ahead

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Speaker 1: and go through the agreed upon story and we'll try

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Speaker 1: to make mention of any additional details as we can

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Speaker 1: to keep the story flowing. I don't want to give

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Speaker 1: anything away, but what happened to these three to be determined.

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Speaker 1: Oh really, okay, So Anne, Renee, and Patricia, who I've

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Speaker 1: seen referred to as Patty on a couple of blogs.

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Speaker 1: But I think she was Patricia. I don't think she

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Speaker 1: was Patty. Patty is a nickname for Patricia. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I know, but I think she was went by Patrician,

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Speaker 1: not Patty. But I said, if she went by pat

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Speaker 1: and Patty, and so anyway, we're gonna call our Patricia.

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Speaker 1: The three of these young women were horse enthusiasts, and

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Speaker 1: and Patricia met when they were boarding their horses at

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Speaker 1: the same stable. And then Patricia and Renee had been

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Speaker 1: friends since high school. Patricia was nineteen in nineteen sixty six,

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Speaker 1: and so was Renee. They had gone to high school together,

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Speaker 1: so you know, that makes sense. And then Anne was

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Speaker 1: twenty one, so a couple of years older. They often

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Speaker 1: met at a tavern in Hodgkins, Illinois, which is that

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Speaker 1: like a suburb of Chicago, it's one of many suburbs.

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Speaker 1: So they all lived in suburbs of Chicago, or actually

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Speaker 1: I think Renee lived in West Chicago, but they all

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Speaker 1: lived in suburbs, and so Hodgkins would have actually been

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Speaker 1: a pretty central meeting point for them, and it was

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Speaker 1: close to the stables. She was close to the stables

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Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, Renee was married patrician and both had

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Speaker 1: boyfriends that they may or may not have met at

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Speaker 1: the tavern. And also the men may or may not

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Speaker 1: have been married. I promise. So when you say boyfriends,

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Speaker 1: that they met, they met these guys for the first

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Speaker 1: time at the tavern, not they had boyfriends who would

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Speaker 1: also meet the girls. Yeah, yeah, that they first met

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Speaker 1: at the table. Okay, I no, no, no, yeah, yeah, sorry,

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Speaker 1: so they maybe met these may be married men who

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Speaker 1: are their boyfriends respectively. Um, but it's it's unclear if

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Speaker 1: these guys were married or not. I was a great choice.

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Speaker 1: Always you always want the married dude. Yeah, well, especially

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Speaker 1: when you're nineteen and twenty one, that's really when you

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Speaker 1: want the married. Good choices. Yeah. The women all stabled

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Speaker 1: and rode their horses at a stable called the Tri

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Speaker 1: Color Stable in Palatine, Illinois, which was owned by George Jane,

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Speaker 1: brother to Silas Jane. And we will talk about that later, Jane.

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Speaker 1: I know you guys love it when I say that.

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Speaker 1: We will talk about that later. If you happen to

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Speaker 1: have just had your ears peaked a little bit. It's

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Speaker 1: possible that you don't. Don't worry about Yeah, there is

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Speaker 1: Patricia aside from riding, just having a riding horse that

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Speaker 1: she had, she also owned a Thoroughbread named Hank, which

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Speaker 1: I think is a pretty cool name for horse, who

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Speaker 1: was a winning race horse. He had recently won two

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Speaker 1: separate races. That one about nine hundred dollars a piece,

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Speaker 1: which is like almost seven thousand dollars now, So not nothing.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we're not like, yeah, both of those races

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Speaker 1: were up in Canada, so Canadian dollars so much much.

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Speaker 1: I think it was American dollar. But yeah, so that

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Speaker 1: this will again probably be relevant later. But we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about that later because I know you guys like to

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Speaker 1: hear that. On July second, nineteen sixty six, in the

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Speaker 1: wee hours of the morning, Ann and Patricia returned to

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Speaker 1: their respective homes like right after bar closing time, like

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Speaker 1: two or three am. It's never really specified, but it

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Speaker 1: is said that they returned home very late. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: always heard. I've heard it said just before dawn. I

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Speaker 1: have no idea that. Yeah, then around eight am and

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Speaker 1: sets out to pick Patricia back up from Patricia's house

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Speaker 1: and owns a car. I think it was a Buick.

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Speaker 1: Buick and Anne lived in Lombard, Illinois, and Patricia lived

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Speaker 1: in Westchester, both suburbs of Chicago. As we previously mentioned,

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Speaker 1: the two drove together to pick up Renee, who lived

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Speaker 1: in West Chicago. Renee had told her mother earlier that

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Speaker 1: morning that she had planned to be home to cook

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Speaker 1: dinner for her husband sometime in the evening. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: then what happens? Come on, come on, come on, tell

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Speaker 1: me more. The three of them stop at a store

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Speaker 1: to pick up sun some sunscreen, and then planned to

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Speaker 1: spend the day at the dunes, the Indiana Dunes, which

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Speaker 1: is on Lake Michigan, in case you don't know of it.

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Speaker 1: Kind of nice. Yeah, it was at that time the

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Speaker 1: Indiana Dunes State Park. It is now the Indiana Dunes

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Speaker 1: National Park or National resor I can't remember that. It's

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Speaker 1: a national park now national, Yeah, but it was a

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Speaker 1: state park at the time. That means you can't like,

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Speaker 1: do math or have guns. It's a safe space. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: They arrived at about ten am, which seems like a

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Speaker 1: quick drive to me, but you know, it was nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty six, so maybe traffic wasn't as bad as it

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Speaker 1: is now in Chicago. It's reported that there were some

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Speaker 1: nine thousand visitors to that beach on the second you

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Speaker 1: know holiday. It was the Saturday before July. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: it was busy. Obviously, they happened to set up next

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Speaker 1: to a couple on the beach that noticed them, so

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Speaker 1: they had, you know, a big beach blanket and everything

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Speaker 1: like that. And the one question about about the Indiana

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Speaker 1: I should have looked this up actually when I was researching,

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Speaker 1: but I never actually looked at the park itself to

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Speaker 1: see how long. It's like miles and miles and miles. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's miles and miles and miles long. So there's like

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Speaker 1: multiple parking lots and all kinds of stuff. Okay, it

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Speaker 1: sounded to me like it's a big place. And by

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Speaker 1: the way, like Michigan is a big lake. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if people know this, Yeah, very big. It's really big. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, you know, nine thousand people over the

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Speaker 1: course of a day on a Saturday on a holiday weekend.

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Speaker 1: It's not as though you're you know, packed shoulder to shoulder.

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Speaker 1: But it's also not as though there's no one there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, and miles and miles of beaches, nine thousand people,

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Speaker 1: it's not that much really, when you think about it, it

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Speaker 1: it probably wasn't that crowded. Well, and um, you know,

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Speaker 1: just because they were visiting the beach. The Lake Michigan

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Speaker 1: is a big boating area, so that also includes the

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Speaker 1: people who were just coming to park their cars to

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Speaker 1: you know, be on their boats and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: But it was enough that there were people around, you know,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't abandoned. And there was this couple that sat

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Speaker 1: next to where the ladies set up. I think it's

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Speaker 1: they were. They were near another couple, if I remember correctly,

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Speaker 1: because they were trying they were either near a tree

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Speaker 1: or trying to use the shade of the tree tree.

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Speaker 1: That's why they set up shop where they did, about

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Speaker 1: a hundred yards away from the water. It was me

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Speaker 1: as I I always stick at a nice little spot

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Speaker 1: in the beach, and then immediately a big family of

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Speaker 1: seventeen comes and like plunks themselves down right next to

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Speaker 1: me for no reason whatsoever. This is why I don't

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Speaker 1: go to the beach with you. Yeah, I know, I'm

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Speaker 1: a magna for that kind of thing. Luckily I don't

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Speaker 1: have that problem. Yeah, they this couple noticed these three

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Speaker 1: young women, and they reported that the women were just

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Speaker 1: hanging out, and then at about noon, they all three

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Speaker 1: entered the water together. They were swimming around and then

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Speaker 1: maybe a boat came up to them, and they all

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Speaker 1: three got on the boat and went away. Because, by

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Speaker 1: the way, chicks love boats. Some chicks, do you love boats? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: There were a lot of boats, but this particular boat,

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Speaker 1: this couple said was about fourteen to sixteen feet long.

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Speaker 1: It was white, had a blue interior and outboard motor.

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Speaker 1: There was a man driving the boat who was described

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Speaker 1: as a I love this quote tan with a head

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Speaker 1: full of coal colored curls. Quote foreign. Yeah, wearing a

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Speaker 1: beach jacket. He's always wearing a beach jacket. I don't

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Speaker 1: know what a beach jacket exactly is, to be honest

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Speaker 1: with you, but I see it like a breaker. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I just seen it on a dozen different web pages

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Speaker 1: about this. I had the same thing, except I actually

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Speaker 1: came across one site that said that he was wearing

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Speaker 1: a life jacket, which would be smart dat Uh. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this boat, this was the tri Marian. Correct, This particular boat.

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Speaker 1: It was a try hole but not trimaran. They didn't

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Speaker 1: know there's a sailboat with three separate holes, and try

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Speaker 1: hall is just a single hole boat. But it's got

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Speaker 1: like those it's got like those two big grooves in

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Speaker 1: the hall. So this one they don't know. This is like,

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Speaker 1: we need to pause on that because we'll talk more

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Speaker 1: about what you're talking about. Second, it confused me because

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Speaker 1: that's jumping ahead. This is literally the report that this

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Speaker 1: couple gave this boat, which is where we're at right now.

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Speaker 1: They actually used the words coal colored curls. They did, apparently. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: nothing about a foreign accent, they know there was, They didn't.

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Speaker 1: They just saw the guy like hand yards away. But

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Speaker 1: you can still hear that foreign stop it. No, he

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Speaker 1: was just a kidnapping, okay. The couple spent the rest

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Speaker 1: of the day at the beach, sitting next to these

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Speaker 1: three young women's clothes, and when it was getting to

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Speaker 1: be dusk, they started packing up and noticed that the

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Speaker 1: women hadn't come back yet, and so they were able

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Speaker 1: to find a park ranger and point out, you know, hey,

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Speaker 1: there's some stuff here, and there were three young women here.

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Speaker 1: And they left at noon and they haven't been back yet,

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Speaker 1: and then gave also the report of they got on

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Speaker 1: this boat with this guy and we haven't seen them

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Speaker 1: since so and the park ranger said, okay, well, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, maybe they forgot about it, or maybe they

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Speaker 1: went off to a party boat or something. So he

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Speaker 1: collected their stuff and then kept it in the office.

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Speaker 1: By the way, a couple of days. I've never seen

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Speaker 1: their names, and I presume the name of this couple

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Speaker 1: is just lost. I think it's just been actually have

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Speaker 1: seen it. I found it, and then like an hour

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Speaker 1: later I was like, oh my god, I need to

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Speaker 1: write that down, and I didn't do it, and then

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Speaker 1: find that web page again. Good luck. Yeah, that's the problem.

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Speaker 1: It's it's they're not any any famously known names of

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Speaker 1: any well, and there's no I mean, and there's there's

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Speaker 1: no reason for them to be thrown into a spotlight

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Speaker 1: or have their name tossed around. Because this is one

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Speaker 1: of those cases that people have been really intrigued by

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Speaker 1: and feel it was a little mismanaged, and so in

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Speaker 1: those kinds of cases, I totally respect not giving out

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Speaker 1: the first witness information because people are constantly going to

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Speaker 1: be bad, yeah, or their family or whatever, saying I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you guys know more. And that's just horrible. And

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Speaker 1: they were just trying to be good Samaritans, so you know,

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Speaker 1: why give that information. Okay, well we'll call them. We

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Speaker 1: don't need to call them anything because that's that's their

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Speaker 1: last in our case, we never know, we might we

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Speaker 1: might talk about the age, okay. The stuff that the

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Speaker 1: women had left behind, um did include purses and towels

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Speaker 1: and stuff like that. And as I said, the rangers

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Speaker 1: store them in their office for until the fourth when

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Speaker 1: Patricia's father called the ranger station to ask about his daughter.

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Speaker 1: And it turns out missing person's reports had been filed

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Speaker 1: for all three young women over the weekend when they

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Speaker 1: didn't come back on the night of the second. And

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Speaker 1: you know, this is one of those situations where it's

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Speaker 1: tough because they're all adults technically, Yeah, they can do

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Speaker 1: what they want, and so they might just run off.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how, yeah, how seriously it was taken.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the father of Patricia is the person who

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Speaker 1: had to call the ranger station at their last known location.

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Speaker 1: The cops didn't even reach out all three. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: cops didn't reach out and say, hey, did you guys

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Speaker 1: like find a body or something, I mean, like even

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Speaker 1: something as cursory as that they didn't do. So it

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Speaker 1: was a different age. It was a different age. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: When the rangers get the call, they say, oh, um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: what were the names of the other person? And this

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Speaker 1: is you know, when you would go to state parks,

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Speaker 1: you still have to do this. You fill out to

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Speaker 1: you have to pay for parking. So you fill out

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Speaker 1: a little slip of paper with your license number and

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Speaker 1: the spot that you've parked in at this at this

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Speaker 1: particular one, the spot you parked in, and then you

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Speaker 1: you know, hang your little thing in the window and

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Speaker 1: you drop your money with the other things in the box.

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Speaker 1: So big cast iron boxing. Yeah. So they were able

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Speaker 1: to actually find the record of Ann's car, which happened

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Speaker 1: to still be parked in the same spot, and as

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Speaker 1: luck would have it or not, her keys happened to

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Speaker 1: be with the belongings that they've been holding. It totally

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Speaker 1: makes sense. Yeah, And there were additional things that they

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Speaker 1: found in the car, just personal effects, you know, additional

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Speaker 1: clothes and stuff like that. The articles that they left

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Speaker 1: on the beach in case anybody's wondering Anne had left

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Speaker 1: her denim shorts, a polo shirt, her shoes, and her

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Speaker 1: bathing cap, you know, just a swim cap, a comb,

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Speaker 1: and her thermis. Patricia had left a yellow robes, sunglasses, transistor, radio,

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Speaker 1: a white towel, and her wallet that had five dollars

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Speaker 1: in it, and then Renee dollars today, right, not not quite,

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Speaker 1: but it's not I mean, it's not nothing. Renee had

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Speaker 1: left her beach towel, her shorts, a blouse, cigarettes, sunscreen, cents,

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Speaker 1: and her purse that had like fifty dollars worth of

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Speaker 1: checks in it. Now that's actually a randomly leave, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I And then yeah, as I said that, more more

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Speaker 1: stuff was found in the car, nothing of any couple, No, no,

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Speaker 1: just you know, like coats and probably regular stuff that

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Speaker 1: you find in somebody's car, probably Patricia's actual clothes because

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Speaker 1: she had just left her robe, you know, things like that.

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Speaker 1: So nothing out of nothing, out of the ordinary. That

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Speaker 1: was all the searching he did on the fourth, because

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Speaker 1: you know, holiday and stuff like that. Whatever, missing persons, whatever,

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Speaker 1: we'll put that onworks off. Yeah. So finally on the

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Speaker 1: it they launched their full scale investigation. And I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: have full scale air quotes because there was a full

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Speaker 1: scale investigation for about a couple of days, and then

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Speaker 1: it was just two dudes who never two investigators who

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Speaker 1: never even met each other, were in charge of the

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Speaker 1: rest of this in different districts in different states. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: probably Illinois and Indiana. Yeah, And it was, you know,

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Speaker 1: one state patrolman who was in charge of finding backgrounds

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Speaker 1: and then another investigator. And they don't they didn't. They

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Speaker 1: never met in person ever. I actually don't even know

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Speaker 1: if they even spoke to each other. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: you would think so, but I think that I think

301
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Speaker 1: they would meet to yeah, apart the full scale thing

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Speaker 1: was just basically scuba divers and dragon the lake and

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Speaker 1: all that stuff. And the full scale was the U. S.

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Speaker 1: Coast Guard came in and they you know, had some

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Speaker 1: scuba divers come down and they did and the helicopters

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Speaker 1: and kind of searching for these and things like that.

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Speaker 1: And initially they just searched within a tiny little radius

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Speaker 1: of where the women's stuff was found, and then they

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Speaker 1: expanded it. A couple of days later, they expanded it

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Speaker 1: six miles along the coast or along the lake shore

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Speaker 1: kind of to the southwest. I think, yeah, because I

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Speaker 1: I when I saw that, I assumed the currents must

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Speaker 1: move from east to west there, and then that has

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Speaker 1: to be the reasoning. I guess I've presumed that that's accurate.

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Speaker 1: During this time, a lot of other witnesses, reliable or not,

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Speaker 1: came forward, you know, they said, hey, some young women

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Speaker 1: went missing. If you guys happened to be on the beach,

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Speaker 1: if anybody has information, let us know, And a lot

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Speaker 1: of the stories started to conflict what the original couple

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Speaker 1: had said. But the investigators kind of all agreed that

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Speaker 1: they found that first report to be the most reliable

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Speaker 1: and then to me, that's not so weird. I think

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Speaker 1: they were able to say, these people went and did this,

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Speaker 1: it's weird, and they but they it's pretty clear that

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Speaker 1: they saw what happened were versus you know, nine thousand

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Speaker 1: people on a beach. Three young women could be any

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Speaker 1: three young women could totally have mistaken a group, you know,

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Speaker 1: for that group and given a different story. So the

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Speaker 1: police did pretty much say this is this is at

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Speaker 1: least the start of what had happened here. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: don't think they ever got any actual, really actual, certifiable

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Speaker 1: other witnesses to those women actually being on that beach,

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Speaker 1: people that you trust, because again he put the word

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Speaker 1: out to the public, and of course a lot of

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Speaker 1: people are going to think there are a couple other

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Speaker 1: things that did happen, and we're going to talk about

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00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,359
Speaker 1: that right now. Yeah, more witnesses kind of started to

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Speaker 1: come forward, and one guy actually turned It turned out

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Speaker 1: had been filming doing like home videos, you know, just

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Speaker 1: from the family and his trip, and he had footage

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Speaker 1: of two separate boats that the police identified as boats

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Speaker 1: of interest. Basically, I haven't found this footage anywhere online,

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Speaker 1: but though to be fair, I didn't look very hard.

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Speaker 1: I tried, but so if somebody happens to find it, great,

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Speaker 1: send it to us. But I kind of feel like

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Speaker 1: if the guy was filming his family, then they would

347
00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:14,879
Speaker 1: have been in the background and probably unrecognized, and its well,

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Speaker 1: maybe recognizable. So what the footage caught basically was these

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Speaker 1: two different boats that they thought were a little suspect.

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Speaker 1: One was a fiberglass sixteen to eighteen foot trimaran try

351
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Speaker 1: hole what I've heard it called trimaran, but it's I

352
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Speaker 1: think it's really what they made. What they mean is

353
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Speaker 1: try hole. Well, it says a trimaran run about with

354
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Speaker 1: a three whole design. So I don't know what that

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Speaker 1: means necessarily, you think it's not that important, but what

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00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,000
Speaker 1: I think you're probably important. Yeah, I think it probably is.

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Speaker 1: It's like, you know, your average a little little motor

358
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Speaker 1: unt about. It's like get a V hole, which is

359
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:54,199
Speaker 1: basically comes down to a single keel, and in the

360
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,520
Speaker 1: try hole there's a central keel and then there's two

361
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Speaker 1: outer keels also, and then there's two what they call

362
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Speaker 1: it tunnels in between them. Oh, I know exactly what

363
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Speaker 1: you're talking about. The bottom the boat has to two

364
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,840
Speaker 1: arcs in them on the bottom, and it's a flatter Yeah,

365
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,119
Speaker 1: it's a little it's a more flatter and more square design.

366
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Speaker 1: And that makes so much more. That's way more sense

367
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Speaker 1: than the other try holes. I've never seen a motorized

368
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Speaker 1: trim ran a sailboats. Yeah, yeah, well that's I was

369
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Speaker 1: like that, that's a distinctive boat to be a true

370
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Speaker 1: three individual holes. I was like, that's so strange. Okay,

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Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. That makes way more sense because

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Speaker 1: I did when I googled it, I was like, wow,

373
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Speaker 1: that's I think people would have remembered that. But Okay, sure,

374
00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:45,720
Speaker 1: why not, it's a little different. Yeah, So that boat

375
00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,399
Speaker 1: the film, this person who was filming was able to

376
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Speaker 1: see and the police from the descriptions, it sounds like

377
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,000
Speaker 1: the image was clear enough at least that they were

378
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Speaker 1: able to see that there was one guy and three

379
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,359
Speaker 1: women on there. And the guy seemed to match at least,

380
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:03,240
Speaker 1: you know, kind of. He was wearing his whatever, a

381
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Speaker 1: boat jacket, and he had black curly hair, and the women,

382
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,679
Speaker 1: you know enough, they're probably their bathing suits are probably

383
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,280
Speaker 1: how they matched because I think it was hair. Well

384
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:16,959
Speaker 1: it's black and white, right, but you can tell if

385
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 1: it but to I think two of them were in

386
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,760
Speaker 1: bikinis and one was in a one piece if I

387
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,280
Speaker 1: remember right, So that would help, that would help identify

388
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:26,959
Speaker 1: if they were all in bikinis, you know, you had

389
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,040
Speaker 1: the wrong boat, right. But still even with that, with

390
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:32,200
Speaker 1: the film, I don't think they really got a well

391
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:37,200
Speaker 1: they didn't. So there's this other boat that was at

392
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 1: Trojan Cabin Cruiser. That's a big boat. I don't know

393
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 1: what that is either. He's a big boat. Yeah, that's

394
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 1: not a huge boat really, but it's a big boat.

395
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 1: It's got a big cabin on could one call it

396
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,440
Speaker 1: a house boat. No, not really. I mean, you could

397
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 1: live on a ft, but it'd be kind of cramped.

398
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:56,920
Speaker 1: But you know, you're talking bigger about you're talking like

399
00:21:58,280 --> 00:21:59,919
Speaker 1: you're getting in a big boat territory, but you can.

400
00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,960
Speaker 1: I mean, so this is important to me. A layman

401
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:05,960
Speaker 1: could look at that boat and say, it's a houseboat.

402
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:07,920
Speaker 1: Does it look like there's a little cabin on the top.

403
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:14,040
Speaker 1: Houseboats are trailers with pontoons under them, basically, But a

404
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 1: cabin cruiser is a boat and it's it's got just

405
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:22,720
Speaker 1: a big enclosed cabin area. It's much more distinctive. It's

406
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 1: not you know, you know, like you think of a

407
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 1: basic rowboat design and you slap a big cabin on

408
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,200
Speaker 1: the top of it that takes maybe the first third

409
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,760
Speaker 1: or first half, and that's it. You see the ones

410
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,439
Speaker 1: um like the ones you always see guys doing the

411
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 1: big fishing expeditions on TV. And that's kind of cabin

412
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 1: cruiser style. Yeah, okay, that one was seen with three

413
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Speaker 1: men on it and three women who might have might

414
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 1: have been matched vaguely the description of our three missing ladies.

415
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Speaker 1: It's just so hard to imagine a boat with three

416
00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 1: women on it. I can see what these really stood. Yeah, yeah,

417
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,240
Speaker 1: Well the problem here is, of course, that neither of

418
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,120
Speaker 1: these boats had names printed on them painted on them anywhere,

419
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 1: or if they did, they weren't discernible. They weren't discernible,

420
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:17,320
Speaker 1: so there was no way to identify these boats. So

421
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 1: they were kind of dead leads. But investigators also had

422
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:26,640
Speaker 1: some reports that they deemed to be reliable, that Renee

423
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 1: and Patrician and had been seeing walking along the beach

424
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,119
Speaker 1: and eating a little bit after three pm on the

425
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 1: second that some miles away from where their belongings were.

426
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 1: It sounds like that the women had swam out to

427
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,119
Speaker 1: meet this boat, gotten on this smaller boat, been taken

428
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 1: some miles away, got off, got something to eat while

429
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,919
Speaker 1: waiting for the larger boat to come pick them up,

430
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:52,640
Speaker 1: and then gotten on the larger boat, and then never

431
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 1: gotten off the larger boat. Perhaps, or maybe as if

432
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 1: you're if you're three women in bathing suits on the beach,

433
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 1: probably a lot of guys with boats are going to

434
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 1: approach you and say, hey, you want to write my vote,

435
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 1: and maybe don't. And actually that that leads into something

436
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 1: I don't remember where I read it, but I seem

437
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 1: to remember that somebody else had come forward saying that

438
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,600
Speaker 1: they had seen the women's swimming in the water, and

439
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 1: the guy had come up and done just that, Hey

440
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 1: you want to come on board, and one of them

441
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 1: had said, no, we can't, I'm married, as in, hey,

442
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,919
Speaker 1: I'm off limits. Get away, dude. So that's that's an

443
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: interesting thing that this story comes out where this guy

444
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,120
Speaker 1: was turned down, and then the main story comes along

445
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 1: and says they just happily climbed on board some random boat. Yeah,

446
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,640
Speaker 1: they might have been somebody they knew, though, I mean,

447
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 1: or a friend of a friend. Yes, they could have

448
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: been somebody that they knew. Well. I mean, that's interesting

449
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 1: to me because I saw that one place and it

450
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 1: was kind of like, okay, one place. But also I

451
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: guess it's never explained how somebody heard that conversation. Would

452
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 1: have been guy driving the boat who said they turned

453
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 1: him down, because I seem to remember it being the

454
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 1: guy who's driving the boat they told him, no, I'm married.

455
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: I do remember. Reported then he like, I remember seeing

456
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: that somewhere, but I've never I don't know how much

457
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,919
Speaker 1: how much value there is. It's just it's interesting to me,

458
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 1: you know, because it's it's very counter to the narrative.

459
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 1: Yeah it is, okay, well with that, we'll just leave that.

460
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 1: Patrician and are reported to have been very strong swimmers

461
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 1: who could swim about thirty miles. Renee was reported to

462
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 1: have been a quote fair swimmer. But you know, by

463
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: the people who are like a strong swimmer thirty miles,

464
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 1: I don't know what fair means. I mean, I report

465
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: myself to be a fair swimmer because I could save

466
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 1: my life, but I wouldn't qualify myself as a particularly

467
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 1: great Can you swimmer of a mile? Yeah, yeah, if

468
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 1: I had to, I mean, it wouldn't be a fun mile,

469
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: but yeah, I kind of kind of for me. It

470
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 1: would depend on current and stuff like that, but it

471
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 1: would be a lot of treading water and a lot

472
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 1: of breaks and just floating up. Well, you just learn,

473
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, this is part of I'm sorry everyone,

474
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 1: this is part of the cruise ship training. But you

475
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 1: there's a certain way that you can swim that you know,

476
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 1: you could just swim for forever. Obviously it's not like

477
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 1: battling strong currents or anything like that, but it'll get

478
00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 1: you to a place kind of I think we've talked

479
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,919
Speaker 1: about this before the fact that if I ever go

480
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: over in in a situation like that, I am screwed.

481
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: I can swim, but I am absolutely not buoyant. I

482
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 1: sink like a rock. I don't know. I'm not that

483
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: boyant either, but pretty buoyant filled with more hot air

484
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: or something. Uh So, I guess it sounds like all

485
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 1: three of them were pretty strong. They could swim, so

486
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 1: they pretty much All of the investigators, both official and armchair,

487
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 1: agree that three accidental drownings highly unlikely, especially with the

488
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: their bodies not ever having washed on shore. And we're

489
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: not talking the ocean where they could have been devoured

490
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 1: by sharks, right, I mean, it's like Michigan. I mean,

491
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 1: I haven't looked at the theory section yet, but is

492
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 1: accidental drowning even in there, and it should go. I

493
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: don't think it should be, because you've just made a

494
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 1: great point. Three bodies. One of them should have washed ashore,

495
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: you would think so, And for all three of them

496
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: to have drowned accidentally at the same time seems pretty crazy.

497
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: But unless they didn't, you know, unless they were helped

498
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,880
Speaker 1: to drown, unless they helped do not wash ashore. Yeah,

499
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 1: and that isn't accidental anymore, all right. So there are

500
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: some more things that we're going to talk about, but

501
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 1: I'm going to weave those into theories. So before we

502
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: get to theories, let's take a quick break. A horse

503
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: walks into a bar. The door hangs open behind her.

504
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,919
Speaker 1: She lazily looks around owned at the other patrons she

505
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: size and stares down at the harry pick tending the bar.

506
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: He snorts and trots away to whisper to the cranky

507
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,120
Speaker 1: old hens sitting in the other end of the bar.

508
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 1: They know why she's there, and they're ready. Revolution has

509
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,159
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510
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511
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Speaker 1: know where your food comes from. And for less than

512
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Speaker 1: ten dollars per person per meal, Blue Apron delivers easy

513
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514
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Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty local farms, ranches, and fisheries across

515
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Speaker 1: the US, right to your door. And because Blue Apron

516
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Speaker 1: ships the exact amount of each ingredient required for a recipe,

517
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518
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522
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523
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524
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525
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 1: to cook and keep animals out of bars. And we're back.

526
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 1: I hope you like that word from our sponsors. We're

527
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: talking about theories now. First theory is gonna sound like

528
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: one of those things we throw in here as a joke,

529
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 1: but it actually, I think personally, the most viable of

530
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,480
Speaker 1: all of our theories. This theory is called the horse

531
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 1: syndicate people theory. Remember how we talked about the Tricolor

532
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: stables and George Jane and Silas Jane a little bit.

533
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: I mentioned it, and then I said, remember that, and

534
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 1: then some people were like, no, talked about Silas Jane

535
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: now because they know who Siles Jane Jane is. Okay, Well,

536
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: I'm going to start off by saying, if you go

537
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: out and google Tricolor stables, you have to google cry

538
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: Color Stables bombing or something like that, because there's a

539
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: Tricolor Stables that exists in Florida and it is not

540
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: the same. I think it has no relation to this one.

541
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: Don't don't even go there. Well, no, I'll go there.

542
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,520
Speaker 1: We don't want to drive away their business. Oh yeah, no,

543
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Don't feel free to go. Don't associate them

544
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: with what we're about to talk about, is what I mean. Okay,

545
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: we don't want any lawsuits. The name Silas Jane may

546
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 1: have rung about for some of you because he's kind

547
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: of famous in the Chicago area, slash connected and implicated

548
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: in a number of unsolved murders in the Chicago area.

549
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: Let's start from the top a little bit, shall we.

550
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:39,360
Speaker 1: Silas was the eldest of eleven children, and his half brother, George,

551
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 1: was the product of an extramarital affair on his mother's part.

552
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: Silas was worn in nineteen o seven and George was

553
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: born in nineteen twenty three, so there were sixteen years apart.

554
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: I guess they were too close as children. I don't

555
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: think so. I think, especially with the present time and everything.

556
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: But you're gonna get into that in when George was

557
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: just one years old. One year old Silas was convicted

558
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: of rape and sent to spend a year in the

559
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: state reformatory. Just a year for rape. You're welcome. It

560
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: does seem kind of lied, although he would have been, well, okay,

561
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: we're not. In the fifties, Silas and two of his

562
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: other brothers worked at a stable then eventually became known

563
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: for their horse trading and training skills and eventually opened

564
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: up their own stable called the Idle Hour, and then

565
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: later I'm not quite sure when, but George opened his

566
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: own stable, Tricolor. Yeah, that was years later. Years later,

567
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: Silas made money selling horses, subpar horses to rich fathers

568
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: who had daughters who wanted to go into horse riding competitions,

569
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 1: and there was a certain there was a certain caliber

570
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:54,239
Speaker 1: of horse that you needed for something like that, and

571
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: Silas didn't really care and just lied and convinced these

572
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: fathers that these horses were of that caliber. He would

573
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: upsell these people in a big way. Well he I mean,

574
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 1: these horses were horses. He would go out and catch

575
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 1: these horses from the wild and turn around and sell

576
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 1: them and be like, oh, it just needs to be

577
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: broken in. It's just kind of like what's your average

578
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 1: used car salesman does today? Really, I would say a

579
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: little worse than He would take horses that we're bad

580
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: performers or potentially ready in those times to go to

581
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: the glue factory, and he would resell them as champion horses,

582
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: like I used car salesman. Yeah. Idle Hour, which was Silas.

583
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: The stable you remember, was in Chicago and was frequented

584
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 1: by a lot of Chicago gangsters at the time. Uh. Silas,

585
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: he's the kind of guy who um so since he

586
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: had this rape conviction when he was seventeen, he was

587
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: ineligible for the draft, so when the war came along,

588
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 1: he couldn't get drafted, so he decided to just sell

589
00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 1: horse meat instead. That's how he made money. Yeah, and

590
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 1: then he made a lot of friends with a lot

591
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 1: of famous gangsters in Chicago at the time, and they

592
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:13,959
Speaker 1: often frequented Idle Hour. And though he was a savvy businessman,

593
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 1: he was a huge bully and a heavy drinker. And

594
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: I don't think he had a steak in George's Tricolor

595
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: stables at all, but they were rivals. Silas did what

596
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 1: he does best and planted a car bomb on George's car.

597
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: He didn't do it himself. Well, he had someone do it. Yeah,

598
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: and we know that actually that he was behind them.

599
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, you're right, it's strongly suspected that he was

600
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: wrongly suspected. Again. Yeah, they're brothers, but all their half brothers,

601
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: but apparently no love lost. They're actually business competitors. Yeah. Um, well,

602
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: and unfortunately that car bomb went off when a woman

603
00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 1: named Cherylyn Rude went to move George's car for him.

604
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: You got it, I kind of. I've always suspected that

605
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: perhaps George had an inkling that maybe the car was

606
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: not safe to drive, I don't know, car for me. Well,

607
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: he It turns out after that he rigged this system

608
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: with a really long pull with his key attached to it,

609
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: so that he could start the car from a safe distance.

610
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: Every Yeah. Yeah, he was sticking through the passengers window,

611
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:29,919
Speaker 1: turn it and let the car start, and then turn

612
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 1: it off and you know, put his stick away and

613
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:37,160
Speaker 1: go straf car again. Yeah. Obviously at that point then

614
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: you want to put the bomb in the passenger side

615
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: facing outward. Yeah, yeah, you do. Well. George eventually was

616
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 1: actually murdered. It took three attempts at least before they

617
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 1: got it. Yeah. Yeah, police of course assumed that Silas

618
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,320
Speaker 1: was to blame for the bomb and for the murder,

619
00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 1: but they couldn't prove it. So there's that. Patricia, you

620
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 1: will remember, had her prize winning horse stable at the Tricolor,

621
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: which George owned. The bombing was in sixty five, so

622
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: just a year before the women went disappearing, went disappeared,

623
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 1: disappeared before they left the split split. Yeah. In March

624
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 1: of nineteen sixty six, Patricia acquired what is um quoted

625
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: as a face injury which may have been inflicted by

626
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: a fist or stairs. Such a weird description. When her

627
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 1: family asked her what happened, she kind of brushed it

628
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 1: off and just said that she was having some problems

629
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 1: with the quote horse syndicate people, which is where we

630
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: get the title for this theory. The theory goes then

631
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,400
Speaker 1: that the women who wrote at Tricolor all the time

632
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: had witnessed the bombing or the placement of the bomb,

633
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 1: or could some one of them or yeah, or one

634
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: of them, or could somehow otherwise implicate Silas in the crime,

635
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 1: and so he was bullying them into not talking, but

636
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: decided that that wasn't quite enough, and so he needed

637
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 1: to have them murdered. So the thing to keep in

638
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: mind is the car bomb went off, went off in

639
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:16,560
Speaker 1: Silas went to trial, and I think it was a

640
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 1: four month long trial, and the trial had ended just

641
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 1: the month before they disappeared. So I think it was

642
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: the beginning of June that that he had been that

643
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 1: he had been cleared of the case. It was acquitted. Yeah,

644
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 1: to add to this theory, there are a lot of

645
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 1: also's in this theory. To add to the theory, in

646
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,479
Speaker 1: late sixty six, Silas claimed to have bodies of three

647
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 1: women buried under his house, and police took this claim

648
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:47,439
Speaker 1: seriously and planned to dig it up. But I don't

649
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,719
Speaker 1: know why I have heard about this claim, but and

650
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 1: I've actually heard it said that he told police that

651
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,919
Speaker 1: he had three bodies buried under his house. Why would

652
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: anybody do that? Because he was insane. He was insane,

653
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,800
Speaker 1: he was legit insane. He also also his phone number

654
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,319
Speaker 1: was found in the purse of at least one of

655
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 1: the women. I think it was Patricia, but I can't

656
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 1: be certain. I think it was in Patricia's purse, but

657
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,439
Speaker 1: it was in one of the persons. I heard this also,

658
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:16,960
Speaker 1: but was hit his personal phone number or his number

659
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: at the stable. I think it was his personal phone number.

660
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 1: I think that it would have been said that it

661
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: was the number. Yeah, And and then it would have

662
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: been the idle hour stable, which none of them they were,

663
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: they're using tricolor. Also, also of note, Silas is suspected

664
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: in the nineteen murders of three young boys known as

665
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: the Peterson Schusler murders. And he's also implicated implicated in

666
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 1: the murders of the Grime Sisters. And then as we said,

667
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: the murder of George, his brother, the murder. And then

668
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: also there are some other last quote unquote noteworthy when

669
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 1: he when he took out George. Finally, how did you

670
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,720
Speaker 1: get him? He was shot in the head while playing

671
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:05,920
Speaker 1: cards through a basement window. Yeah, And I think is

672
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 1: it the Grime sisters, the ones who know that was

673
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: somebody different who was calling him out and going to

674
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 1: report to the authorities his scam on what he did

675
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 1: with horses, you know, selling crappy horses as super fancy horses.

676
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 1: How was somebody else who also happened to die, Yes,

677
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:26,280
Speaker 1: who happened to disappear and die? Yeah? Also also also,

678
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: Patricia's boyfriend at the time was an ex con cowboy

679
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,839
Speaker 1: who lived in California, and you know that was John

680
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 1: Paul Jones, right, yeah, and he maintains that he was innocent.

681
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: By the way, I don't think he was married. I know,

682
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 1: I said earlier the boyfriends might have been married, but

683
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 1: I don't think this guy was. I heard that one

684
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 1: of them was married, but not not. I think that

685
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: Ann's boyfriend might have been married, but Patricia's ex con

686
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 1: California cowboy boyfriend was. No. I think he was in California.

687
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 1: I think kind of shady character. Yeah, I know. There's

688
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 1: a theory out there. It says the reason that these

689
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:06,319
Speaker 1: three young women had Silas's phone number was because they

690
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:11,879
Speaker 1: were working as like call girl date girls for him,

691
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: and that they that he had set up a date

692
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: yeah something like necessarily anything sexual but no, no, no,

693
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 1: but you know, like paid date time or whatever. Uh.

694
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 1: And then that's why there were three men on that

695
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 1: large boat and three young women on that large boat,

696
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: and that, you know, I don't know, something that wrong,

697
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 1: I guess or I don't know, or they decided to

698
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: sell them, you know, like sell them. Uh. Yeah, I

699
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 1: think about the whole murder thing by by Silas is

700
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: that he waited a long time, like a whole year

701
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,320
Speaker 1: between the bombing and the actual disappearance of the women.

702
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,800
Speaker 1: And also he had already been on trial and essentially acquitted,

703
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:51,680
Speaker 1: so it's like, you know, you couldn't be tried again

704
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: for it anyway. So I actually don't think that he

705
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 1: waited all that long though. I mean, he he probably

706
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: felt like he was going to get away with it,

707
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: and then he had to go to you know, it's

708
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,319
Speaker 1: arrested and goes through trial. And I could see this

709
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 1: being a situation of cleaning up all the loose ends

710
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: just in case. But he had already been to trial

711
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 1: and acquitted by the time they disappeared, right, he had

712
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,839
Speaker 1: been to trial. I don't know if he was acquitted. Yeah.

713
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 1: And the thing about it is too, is there were

714
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: other witnesses to the guys actually planting the bomb in

715
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,759
Speaker 1: the car I heard, and these people their names were

716
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 1: published in the papers, and none of them got killed.

717
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: And there's no evidence that any of the three women

718
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 1: actually saw anything or new anything. Well, but you know,

719
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 1: but it could also be So there's the whole she

720
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 1: was having problems with the horse that the good people,

721
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:38,399
Speaker 1: and that that brus could have simply have come from

722
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 1: a horse worked with animals, and that was the reason. Okay,

723
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 1: But but the what I'm saying here is that if

724
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 1: she's having problems with them, and somehow Silas is involved

725
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: in this, and she knows, she could have foolishly mouthed

726
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 1: off and said, listen, cut it out, or I'm going

727
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,320
Speaker 1: to tell everybody that I know something and I saw

728
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: you there, I mean, you know, making claims that could

729
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 1: have put her in the hot seat and was not

730
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 1: a good negotiating tactic. Here's my two things about that.

731
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 1: First of all, the fact that she said somebody punched her,

732
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,080
Speaker 1: when in fact it would have been really easy for

733
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,840
Speaker 1: her to say a horse hit me means that she

734
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 1: probably was trying to tell someone something right to make

735
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 1: at least. Second of all, Silas was involved in so

736
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: many shady things that it doesn't have to be even

737
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 1: a little bit connected to the bombing. In my mind

738
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 1: that they, at least one of them could have known

739
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:42,720
Speaker 1: something about anything that he had done and said, hey,

740
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 1: i'm gonna we're gonna tell yeah, you hang out in

741
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: the stable as you probably hear some scuttle, but you know,

742
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,840
Speaker 1: I mean it wasn't just them talking to George or

743
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 1: the talk of the silas or whatever. It was like,

744
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: you know, there's all kinds of people hanging around. There

745
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 1: were other mobsters hanging around there, maybe wanted to, like,

746
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 1: you know, pick up on these girls and press these

747
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 1: girls and stuff like that. Who knows that they actually heard, Yeah,

748
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 1: of course it's all at hearsay. Also, so it's like

749
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 1: whether it was any danger or just silence, I'm not

750
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: so sure. So so back to the whole date on

751
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 1: the boat thing. So you were saying, so I'm assuming

752
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 1: I just want to flesh that out a little bit.

753
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: You said, you know, and then something went wrong. I'm

754
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 1: assuming that means that something went wrong and one of

755
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:23,879
Speaker 1: them died, and to cover it up they killed all

756
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 1: three and waited in the drums at the bottom. That

757
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: seems to be the kind of going theory. There's a

758
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 1: lot of theories that involved that sort of And then

759
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: something went wrong and they had to kill all three

760
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,439
Speaker 1: of them, and why I don't know, But yeah, there's

761
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,279
Speaker 1: always I kind of like the white slavery theory. That's

762
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 1: your favorite theory for literally everything. You could be talking

763
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:47,919
Speaker 1: about when did Yeah, actually in that area, it was

764
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,880
Speaker 1: an issue. It still is. It's still but at that

765
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 1: time is always a thing that's happening a lot right now. Yeah,

766
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean it's possible. It's possible, certainly. I

767
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 1: I think that's a kind of a weak one in

768
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 1: this particular case, but it is completely plausible based on

769
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 1: the people they were hanging around with. So I noticed

770
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: that you don't have on your list any popular killers,

771
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 1: and I'm surprised. I mean, Silas Jaane is a pretty

772
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:19,319
Speaker 1: popular killer. Let's be honest here, known convicted killer. How

773
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 1: about that? Okay, So we're not going to debate that.

774
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,239
Speaker 1: I have to that. I didn't know if you wanted

775
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 1: to talk about if you want, you okay. So there's

776
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:33,280
Speaker 1: one and I'm gonna probably butcher the pronunciation of this town.

777
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 1: But it's the Yipsilante ripper John Norman Collins or Chapman.

778
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 1: His name is different in places, but he's the guy

779
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:46,319
Speaker 1: who between sixty seven and sixty nine he killed like

780
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 1: seven or eight women. He started out like once once

781
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: a year, once every eight months, and then suddenly at

782
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 1: the very end it it escalated and he killed a

783
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 1: whole bunch of people or women from seven to six, right,

784
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 1: So this would be his kind of his big getting things.

785
00:44:00,760 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 1: He's starting with three women at once. That's ambitious. He

786
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: kind of matched the description. He's not too far off

787
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 1: of the area, a couple hundred miles away, so yeah,

788
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 1: that that's a jaunt. But you never know with these

789
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 1: kind of things. The other one that I saw was

790
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 1: Richard Spec And if anybody doesn't know who he is,

791
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 1: he's the guy that in on July nineteen sixty six,

792
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: which is ten or twelve days prior, he killed eight

793
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,319
Speaker 1: nursing students, eight women in their house. He was he

794
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: said he was on some you know, he was drunk

795
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,760
Speaker 1: and he was black out drunk. But he he butchered

796
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 1: all of them, and he obviously would have had the

797
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 1: capacity to do that. So they're they're two ones that

798
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 1: are right there in the area that could have been earlies. Yeah,

799
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 1: I guess that's true, that that second one, Spec, I

800
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 1: guess I'm will more willing to believe him than the

801
00:44:57,120 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: other one. Well, in the problem with spec specting clean up, Yeah,

802
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 1: he didn't clean up. And also, um, why not just

803
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 1: I mean, if you've you've brutally murdered eight women, what's

804
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 1: another three? Well they're warmups, but I mean crap, but

805
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:18,279
Speaker 1: I mean to not say. Also, well he he tried to,

806
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 1: you know, to play games as all these guys draped.

807
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: Did I want to them own a boat? Not that

808
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: I know of, but I haven't seen that in there.

809
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: But they were both Um so Spec was in his

810
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:37,399
Speaker 1: mid twenties at the time and John Norman I think

811
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 1: was eighteen or nineteen at the time. That's why I

812
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:42,799
Speaker 1: feel like he could have matched the description. That's why

813
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 1: I looked him like, check this out. Yeah, the man

814
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 1: is described as being in his mid twenties. Ish's you know,

815
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 1: is hard because it's kind of when you start looking

816
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: like you're any age. But yeah, I mean those are

817
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 1: two good theories. I guess they're suspects that are out

818
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 1: there that these people are always trying to tie people

819
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 1: who did bad deeds into so many other cases, so

820
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 1: I'm amazed that that hasn't happened with this one. They

821
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 1: would do it, Yeah, that's a good idea, Like, yeah,

822
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: I could see where he would like to decide, Hey,

823
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 1: you know, I want to start saal killing and I

824
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 1: know I've got this great idea I'm going to go

825
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 1: down to this beach with a boat, and I'm just

826
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 1: gonna pick up a girl, take her out in the lake,

827
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: and kill her. And then he discovered. He gets out

828
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 1: there and discovers, hey, no individual woman is kind of

829
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:31,800
Speaker 1: willing to climb into my boat alone with me. Uh,

830
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:34,799
Speaker 1: And so he winds up with three women's okay, well

831
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 1: I let's just roll with the punches. Yeah. Yeah, for me,

832
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 1: for it to be one person is always pretty incredible

833
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,359
Speaker 1: to me, particularly since all three of these women were

834
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 1: pretty strong swimmers. Don't you think at least one of

835
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: them would have tried to escape? Um, if you're in

836
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 1: a motorized boat and somebody is swimming away, you know what,

837
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 1: it's very easy to do him over, run him over.

838
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 1: Oh she got away. Well I'll finish what I'm doing

839
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: because we're out in the middle of the lake, and

840
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:06,360
Speaker 1: then I'll just take care of her true story. Okay,

841
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 1: that's fair. The next theory is a little bit of

842
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 1: a sensitive topic this islar though it's a very popular theory. Um,

843
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 1: But just so you guys know, if anybody needs to

844
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 1: take a break for this one, feel free, or if

845
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:21,839
Speaker 1: you don't want to hear it. We're going to talk

846
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 1: about aliens. The next one, it's about abortions and was

847
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:33,720
Speaker 1: apparently pregnant. Three months pregnant sounds like angely. I've also

848
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 1: heard that Patricia was pregnant, but I'm not sure where

849
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:38,439
Speaker 1: that information comes from. I've also heard that all three

850
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: of them were pregnant, but I have no idea where

851
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 1: that information comes from. I don't think Renee was pregnant.

852
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 1: I think her she's just she's not pregnant. She is

853
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 1: the one married one day, but I think her family

854
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 1: would have known, but maybe not. An had talked about

855
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 1: entering a home for unwed mothers before her disappearance. And

856
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 1: now this is six so that's seven years before Roe v. Wade.

857
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 1: So abortion is super illegal at the time everywhere everywhere,

858
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 1: well not everywhere. It was. It was legal in some

859
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 1: American states, but it was not none of not not

860
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 1: in the mid West where they were at now. And

861
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:18,799
Speaker 1: as we know, when something is illegal, we just make

862
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 1: it in our bathtubs and get on with life. So

863
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 1: that's what they did. I'm sorry there's this. There was

864
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: this well known man named Hank Largo in the Chicago

865
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 1: area at that time, and he, along with his wife, Helen,

866
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:33,839
Speaker 1: helped women who were in a family way who did

867
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 1: not want to be in a family way out by

868
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 1: providing abortions. Yeah. Um, they operated out of a houseboat

869
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 1: is what it's described as floating on you guessed it, Lake, Michigan.

870
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 1: I've also heard that maybe they operated out of Gary, Indiana.

871
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 1: But to be honest, I don't know why you wouldn't

872
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:55,279
Speaker 1: just operate multiple locations or move your operation a lot.

873
00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: It's illegal and people are going to come after you

874
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 1: if yeah, eventually somebody's can figure out and if you

875
00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 1: move around a lot yet, Yeah, especially if you're like

876
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 1: on a houseboat that boat around Yeah, well yeah, if

877
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 1: you have actually a good charts, you know, and you

878
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: know whether the demarcation between say Illinois Indiana is when

879
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 1: the Illinois State Police and the lawn just start coming

880
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 1: after you's like right, yeah, yeah. The so Helen and

881
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:30,319
Speaker 1: Hank's nephew, Ralph Largo Jr. It sounds like maybe ran

882
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 1: a bit of a fairy transport to help young women

883
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 1: get to this house boat and also, you know, make

884
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:38,719
Speaker 1: sure that they never knew. I mean, that's what you

885
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 1: kind of want. You want somebody to transport people there

886
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 1: because to the dock, right, But also you can you know,

887
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 1: load your women into a smaller craft and you ride

888
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 1: around Lake Michigan, drop them off, pick them up again,

889
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 1: you know, do whatever you need to do to make

890
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 1: sure that they don't know where in the lake they

891
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: are so that nobody can go to the yeast later

892
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:02,759
Speaker 1: and say there was a houseboat and it was here.

893
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 1: It could be a totally a totally good cut out

894
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 1: to you know, he shows up and he doesn't say, hey,

895
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: you're ready for to the abortion, you know, Instead you

896
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 1: show up and say, hey, you girls want to go

897
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:15,359
Speaker 1: for a ride, absolutely, and that they know what kind

898
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:18,400
Speaker 1: of but they know that's why they went. Yeah, so

899
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 1: this would explain a lot. But so the theory goes

900
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 1: before we get a little too far into it. Obviously,

901
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:27,759
Speaker 1: the theory goes that either just An or In and

902
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 1: Patricia or all three of them were pregnant. They were

903
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 1: able to contact Hank and uh find out you know,

904
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 1: or get this procedure started, wanted friends with them. I'm

905
00:50:39,680 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 1: just going to go on the assumption that Anne was

906
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 1: the only one that was pregnant, but she wanted her

907
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:45,959
Speaker 1: two good friends with her, probably for safety, but also

908
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 1: for emotional support and things like that. Something goes wrong,

909
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 1: it's box. So they kill them all and I don't know,

910
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 1: throw them overboard or something. They just probably kept some

911
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:58,960
Speaker 1: weights around for that very purpose and then they moved

912
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:01,799
Speaker 1: the house boat and then never to be wise. Yeah,

913
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:03,920
Speaker 1: one of the problems I have with this theory. I'm

914
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:07,319
Speaker 1: not totally discounting it. But they went off into the

915
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 1: water wearing bathing suits and then get into the boat

916
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 1: and go off for their abortions. And I've never had

917
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 1: an abortion, believe it or not, But I'm not sure

918
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 1: is that is a bathing suit what you want to

919
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 1: be wearing like act you've had your abortion. No, No,

920
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:26,879
Speaker 1: that's there. There is. Convalescing is what you would want

921
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 1: to do, more so than playing in the beach running

922
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:34,399
Speaker 1: around in your bathing suit. That would be much more

923
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:38,880
Speaker 1: conducive to your your recuperation. However, on the other hand,

924
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 1: if this operation is happening on a houseboat and it's

925
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 1: super illegal, you're gonna want to try to keep all

926
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 1: of the attention away from you as possible. So you're

927
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 1: going to go in your bathing suit because it's unsuspicious

928
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:53,319
Speaker 1: for you to be swimming around. You may you may

929
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:57,000
Speaker 1: even spend the night on this houseboat recuperating. I don't know.

930
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:00,719
Speaker 1: They likely have, you know, robes and other clothes on

931
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 1: the house boat for you to be able to help

932
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,359
Speaker 1: cover yourself up and feel better in. But I mean,

933
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 1: you do what you have to do in situations that

934
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: are that illegal. I will certainly it's not the ideal situation,

935
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 1: but a back alley illegal abortion on a houseboat isn't

936
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: the ideal situation either, so I understand that. And the

937
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 1: weather was super hot I think it was like nineties

938
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:27,239
Speaker 1: some degrees that day, but I could I mean, if

939
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 1: this guy is going to pick you up, he could

940
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:34,319
Speaker 1: just as easily have picked you up at one of

941
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: the docks that's around the area, And you could whoever

942
00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 1: was going to have the procedure could have instead of

943
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:43,720
Speaker 1: water around a bikini, how a sun dress on that

944
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 1: That isn't you know what I'm dancing It wasn't like

945
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:50,319
Speaker 1: that was the only access the lake, right, Well, there's that,

946
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 1: And what else I'm also dancing around is that there's

947
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,440
Speaker 1: likely to be apparent bleeding after the fact that is

948
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 1: very noticeable in a in a wimen suit. Yeah, so

949
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:03,840
Speaker 1: that's that's why I have such a problem, and I

950
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 1: agree with Joe in this particular one have been something.

951
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:11,320
Speaker 1: I agree that it's definitely not a full proof theory,

952
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 1: but I also agree that it's not the worst theory

953
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 1: out there, except with the exception of well, no, what

954
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 1: the exception of something went wrong and they killed three

955
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 1: women because an abortion was botched. I mean it's I mean,

956
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:28,920
Speaker 1: you know, well, the thing about it is is that

957
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 1: when abortions get screwed up. And again I'm not an expert,

958
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 1: by the way, and this is a this is a

959
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:37,239
Speaker 1: touchy subject, and I think we all understand and agree

960
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 1: with that. Well, yeah, it's usually it's usually complications after

961
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 1: the fact, and it's not like somebody's getting abortion and

962
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 1: they just immediately kick off. I mean, it's usually it

963
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 1: takes a little while. Yeah, I mean, it is an operation,

964
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:52,680
Speaker 1: so it could be you know, somebody could bleed out

965
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:57,359
Speaker 1: on the table. Conceivably, I don't know if that's more

966
00:53:57,360 --> 00:53:59,360
Speaker 1: likely they would die from SEPs as much as you know,

967
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 1: somewhat late. Sure, But I mean even if in the

968
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 1: instance that you know, somebody bleeds out on the table,

969
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 1: you know, for you to turn around to be like, well,

970
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:09,839
Speaker 1: I guess manslaughter is my only option here instead of

971
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 1: you know, saying she knew the risks, she decided to

972
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:15,919
Speaker 1: go through with it. Anyway, Let's figure out if there's

973
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:20,040
Speaker 1: a way. I don't know it's it's just turning straight

974
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 1: to manslaughter. Is like, I don't I don't think that's manslaughter.

975
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:25,440
Speaker 1: I mean, if you turn around you kill the other

976
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 1: two to keep it quiet, I think that's more than manlater,

977
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 1: but I mean, well, okay, so let's let's look at

978
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:34,719
Speaker 1: it from the other side, from your perspective, and just

979
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 1: go to the other side of whoever was getting the

980
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 1: procedure does die and the other two or one of

981
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:46,880
Speaker 1: the other two completely loses her mind and starts to again,

982
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:49,640
Speaker 1: this is the same thing I'm going to wrap you

983
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 1: us making threats, and this is your livelihood and you

984
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:59,400
Speaker 1: do illegal things. Yeah, that's one more illegal thing, okay,

985
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:04,400
Speaker 1: to more things. That's true. Yeah for me, I guess

986
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:08,359
Speaker 1: I just have a hard time because there Because here's

987
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:10,920
Speaker 1: the thing is the illegal thing they are doing is

988
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,960
Speaker 1: an illegal thing. They are doing to help provide health

989
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:17,279
Speaker 1: access to women who need it. Right, They're not like

990
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 1: slinging back alley super dangerous drugs. They're not out, you know,

991
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:23,960
Speaker 1: thieving and things like that. They're trying to provide a

992
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 1: medical service that women need. So for me, no, no,

993
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 1: it's not, that's true. But what I'm saying is that

994
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to put myself in the in the

995
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:37,440
Speaker 1: boots of um Hank and Helen right as the medical

996
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:40,760
Speaker 1: providers here. It's they're doing an illegal thing for good

997
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 1: from their point of view, right, They're not doing an

998
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:47,320
Speaker 1: illegal thing for their own profit, for their own maybe

999
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:51,879
Speaker 1: for a little monetary profit, but not They are not murderers, right,

1000
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:55,160
Speaker 1: They are not common thieves and criminals. So for me

1001
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 1: to say, like, hey, these doctors who are providing this

1002
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:02,120
Speaker 1: medical procedure for people, what's another murder on top of that, Like,

1003
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:04,680
Speaker 1: that's a pretty big stretch for me. That's at the

1004
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,040
Speaker 1: same time, you know, even though I agree these people

1005
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 1: probably weren't the kind of people to just cold bloodedly

1006
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:12,480
Speaker 1: murder people in a situation like that where these you know,

1007
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 1: a woman is like Steve says, flips out, says, you're

1008
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 1: an incompetent moron. I'm going to take this to the

1009
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:21,120
Speaker 1: police right now. You I can see where you would

1010
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 1: panic and just like grab a blunt instrument and just

1011
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 1: hammer and both I could totally see that. I will

1012
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 1: admit that. I just I'm taking exception with the idea

1013
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:34,840
Speaker 1: of like, what's another murder medical procedure? I mean, and

1014
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:39,360
Speaker 1: I would be careful to when you're doing that, devon,

1015
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 1: because you're saying that they have you know, they don't

1016
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 1: have the scruples to be bad people and just do

1017
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:46,399
Speaker 1: it because they're in it for the money, because they

1018
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 1: could potentially be that kind of person people. And I

1019
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:54,400
Speaker 1: admit I didn't do a whole lot of reading on

1020
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 1: these two because it makes me feel better because I

1021
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time on Silas. Yeah. So that's

1022
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:06,240
Speaker 1: but I think we've I think we've established this one. Yeah,

1023
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:09,719
Speaker 1: so that's the second theory. Third fourth, I don't know

1024
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:13,840
Speaker 1: if we're counting your weird serial killer. What about the

1025
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 1: water spout? When are we going to get the water spout?

1026
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:19,040
Speaker 1: The water spout? There wasn't a water pop. But what

1027
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:23,000
Speaker 1: about the water crib? Water crib? There was a water crib.

1028
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,560
Speaker 1: We can talk about that. I guess sure, Well, that's

1029
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 1: the water inlets that when they found the boat parts, Yeah,

1030
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 1: they did find some boat parts. It was a seat

1031
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:37,360
Speaker 1: and yeah, so it could have been stuff that was

1032
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 1: thrown overboard. It could have been, you know, a boat

1033
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:44,840
Speaker 1: crash from weeks again, the boat crib was the crib

1034
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:47,480
Speaker 1: was like a giant intake for a water supply for

1035
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:50,240
Speaker 1: what this it's a city of Gary. Was it city

1036
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 1: of Gary, Indiana? Or serves Does it serve Chicago? I

1037
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:59,040
Speaker 1: don't remember which city it serves now, but it's Yeah,

1038
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 1: it's a giant creep pillar that's got a processing plant

1039
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 1: in the middle of it. It's way out in the lake. Yeah,

1040
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:07,720
Speaker 1: and so presumably they put filters in the screens so

1041
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 1: people and boat still get sucked into it, I'm assuming,

1042
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:12,960
Speaker 1: And they also set a bunch of divers down around it. Yeah,

1043
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 1: because divers searched all around that thing, because they presumed

1044
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 1: that on this fun boat ride they smashed headlong into it,

1045
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 1: they all sunk. And that's why. Yeah, I mean, there

1046
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 1: was no boat that was reported missing or crashed or

1047
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:28,840
Speaker 1: anything like that, but I don't I don't put a

1048
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 1: lot of stock and I mean there was there was,

1049
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:34,560
Speaker 1: there's no boat found there. Yeah, So yeah, I have

1050
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 1: a couple of the theories. I know that, Steve, do

1051
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:41,160
Speaker 1: you have another one today? Okay? Well, I guess our

1052
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 1: final theories aliens or stage or something. One of Patty's

1053
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:51,320
Speaker 1: friends did mention Patricia. One of Patricia's friends did mention

1054
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 1: that she told them that she was planning to stage

1055
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:58,880
Speaker 1: her own disappearance, which I don't know. Maybe, I guess

1056
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:03,200
Speaker 1: is a lot to leave behind. Line check. Yeah, police

1057
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 1: report that Renee's marriage may have been in trouble because

1058
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:09,280
Speaker 1: they found a letter in her person. Yeah, they've been

1059
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:12,680
Speaker 1: married fifteen months and she had written a letter that

1060
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:15,479
Speaker 1: said that he spent too much time working on hot

1061
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 1: rod cars with his friends and she wanted to end it.

1062
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 1: But her husband says that he didn't know of any

1063
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:23,560
Speaker 1: issues because he was too busy working on hot rod

1064
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:27,080
Speaker 1: The typical duty has no idea, no idea. But the

1065
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 1: family agreed, and people pretty much assumed that she just

1066
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:34,080
Speaker 1: had this note because she had it and had written

1067
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 1: it when she was angry one night, and then just

1068
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:38,960
Speaker 1: didn't ever plan on giving it. Not unheard of, No,

1069
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 1: I get it now. That possibility is that whoever was

1070
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:44,520
Speaker 1: pregnant was it was Anne. It was told that was

1071
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:49,280
Speaker 1: certifiably pregnant. Yeah, that was an okay, Yeah, maybe her

1072
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 1: boyfriend decided to offer although again I don't really understand

1073
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:55,760
Speaker 1: offering all three of them versus just her. Yeah, I

1074
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:59,000
Speaker 1: don't quite get that. Yeah, I don't either. Yeah, it

1075
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 1: to go after all three it was especial beach. Yeah,

1076
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:05,880
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the reason people mentioned that they

1077
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:07,680
Speaker 1: might have been married is like, well, maybe one of

1078
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:10,880
Speaker 1: the wives came after them, and or why the boyfriends

1079
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:13,439
Speaker 1: were married. I don't know. I don't think. I think

1080
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 1: the Silas Jane or the abortion theories are the best ones,

1081
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:23,400
Speaker 1: but the convenience. The thing that helps with the story

1082
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 1: when you think about when you see these stuff about

1083
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:30,440
Speaker 1: well it was the one of the wives or it

1084
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:33,920
Speaker 1: was somebody else that killed all three of them when

1085
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 1: they were in the area is the fact that the

1086
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 1: dunes in that area are constantly shifting, and so it

1087
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 1: is entirely possible that somebody could have buried them at

1088
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 1: the base of a dune, and those are living dunes,

1089
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:50,760
Speaker 1: meaning they're moving all the time, and they could have

1090
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 1: been buried, you know, just a couple of feet down,

1091
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 1: and the dune does all of the hard work and

1092
01:00:55,840 --> 01:00:58,840
Speaker 1: covers all of the evidence for which might pop out.

1093
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:02,439
Speaker 1: One of these might well there is people do think

1094
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:06,960
Speaker 1: that there's probably some additional evidence that got buried in

1095
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:10,480
Speaker 1: the dunes at some point, but they I don't think

1096
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:12,840
Speaker 1: people really think that their bodies are but I mean

1097
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 1: it's possible, but I don't know. You also see the

1098
01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:18,640
Speaker 1: stuff about so there's at Mount Baldy, which is right

1099
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:21,360
Speaker 1: near there, there's the stuff about the holes. You guys

1100
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 1: saw those articles. Didn't because it's a moving dune. It's

1101
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:28,240
Speaker 1: it's swallowed up entire trees, which of them rotted out,

1102
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 1: and the sand is just kind of barely held together

1103
01:01:31,120 --> 01:01:34,160
Speaker 1: in a column, an open air column. And a boy

1104
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 1: fell in a couple of years ago. But people was like, well,

1105
01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:39,880
Speaker 1: maybe they all got swallowed. That's a mighty huge coincidence.

1106
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:43,200
Speaker 1: That is a very huge tree to have to have

1107
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:46,600
Speaker 1: rotted out and not collapsed prior maybe they all three fellow,

1108
01:01:46,720 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 1: three separate holes. You're walking side by side, and wow,

1109
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:50,840
Speaker 1: there's a good sides for it. But yeah, that would

1110
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:54,800
Speaker 1: have happened. And and by the way, just y uh,

1111
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:56,840
Speaker 1: as far as I know, in that area, there were

1112
01:01:56,880 --> 01:02:00,920
Speaker 1: never any trees anywhere near big enough to swallow three women. Yeah, no,

1113
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:06,960
Speaker 1: there the holes are like twelve. I heard that phenomenon

1114
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:11,040
Speaker 1: even occurs around here. Now at our dunes and so

1115
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:14,160
Speaker 1: be careful out there. Wear a rope, a long long rope,

1116
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:18,480
Speaker 1: have your friends holding the other end. Yeah, that'll save you. Yeah.

1117
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:21,439
Speaker 1: At what they do is they do is they tie

1118
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:23,080
Speaker 1: it to the back of their their four wheel. Drawing

1119
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:31,200
Speaker 1: you how many more theories? Anybody your favorite theory? I

1120
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 1: kind of like the theory that it was a Chinese

1121
01:02:34,120 --> 01:02:37,960
Speaker 1: submarine and yeah they were defecting to China and in

1122
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:41,080
Speaker 1: Lake Michigan. Yeah that could have been that, right, Yeah, yeah,

1123
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:44,880
Speaker 1: let's see. Other than that. No, really, I actually think

1124
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:47,920
Speaker 1: my favorite theory is that it probably was they were

1125
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 1: probably a random murder, maybe a serial killers, that type

1126
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:52,960
Speaker 1: of guy, because I don't see that Silas had any

1127
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:56,160
Speaker 1: pick in the motivation. Of course, again, silence is everybody's

1128
01:02:56,960 --> 01:02:59,160
Speaker 1: we didn't know about well yeah, totally for sure, But

1129
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:02,040
Speaker 1: I mean, silence is everybody's favorite for this whole thing.

1130
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:06,120
Speaker 1: But if you look at Silas's typical murder, m oh,

1131
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:09,640
Speaker 1: this is pretty out there. This is pretty different for

1132
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:12,440
Speaker 1: Silas to do it this particularly, I mean, Salad is

1133
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:14,320
Speaker 1: more the kind of guy to either you know, plant

1134
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:16,680
Speaker 1: a bomb in your car or just to have his

1135
01:03:16,760 --> 01:03:19,080
Speaker 1: guys take you out. Somewhere in a field and put

1136
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:21,960
Speaker 1: a bullet in your brain. Well, he so the two

1137
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:25,360
Speaker 1: other murders, the big ones that he was implicated in,

1138
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:28,000
Speaker 1: the one of the three younger boys, and then the

1139
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:31,919
Speaker 1: grime sisters, those were bodies that were murdered and then

1140
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:35,320
Speaker 1: dropped in ditches by the side of the road. So

1141
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:39,880
Speaker 1: this wouldn't be so far different from that necessarily. I mean,

1142
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:41,760
Speaker 1: you killed three people and they drop him in the

1143
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:44,720
Speaker 1: lake instead. And I think that's one of the reasons

1144
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:47,720
Speaker 1: that people really think that he looks good for this,

1145
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:51,960
Speaker 1: because there was at least a tenuous connection between them

1146
01:03:52,040 --> 01:03:54,800
Speaker 1: and him. You can you can say they may have

1147
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:59,240
Speaker 1: met and he I mean, he was a rapist. You

1148
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:02,880
Speaker 1: hate to say it, but he was a rapist. And um,

1149
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:04,840
Speaker 1: you know, it's possible that he had just seen them

1150
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 1: and thought, oh, hey, I know, I'll bring them on

1151
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:09,720
Speaker 1: my boat. I'll rape them and i'll murder them, and

1152
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:11,920
Speaker 1: I'll just have a convenient dropping places that could have

1153
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:13,480
Speaker 1: been it. And maybe he and his buddies we're going

1154
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:15,800
Speaker 1: to have just a whole rape, fast, good old time.

1155
01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:19,720
Speaker 1: But you know, and and this is another possibility, and

1156
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:21,720
Speaker 1: but I don't know, this might be just a little

1157
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:25,080
Speaker 1: too subtle and clever for silas. Yeah, I think we're

1158
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 1: getting but but let me point this out. There's actually

1159
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:32,040
Speaker 1: only one pair of witnesses who saw the girls there,

1160
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:36,080
Speaker 1: reliable witnesses. That was the couple, the married couple who

1161
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:38,800
Speaker 1: supposedly were next to them. But if you really wanted

1162
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 1: to be clever about disappearing these three, what you do is,

1163
01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:45,720
Speaker 1: you know, you just have some people say you kidnapped him.

1164
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:47,960
Speaker 1: He takes some of their effects. You have some of

1165
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:50,200
Speaker 1: your accomplices go down to the beach and say, hey,

1166
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:52,280
Speaker 1: you know they were right next to us. They went off,

1167
01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 1: and you've got in a boat with the guy that

1168
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:56,240
Speaker 1: had a mop of curly, cold black hair. Yeah. What

1169
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:58,480
Speaker 1: we're getting into now, Joe, is that part that makes

1170
01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:01,360
Speaker 1: our listeners uncomfortable and think that maybe you are actually

1171
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:04,400
Speaker 1: a serial kid. Yeah, exactly. But what I'm saying is

1172
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:06,800
Speaker 1: that we don't actually even know that they were at

1173
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:11,760
Speaker 1: that park. I mean, you don't really honestly. I mean technically, yeah,

1174
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 1: technically that's true. Yeah, I think they probably were, but

1175
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:22,360
Speaker 1: well no, yes, I mean that's all I'm saying is

1176
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:24,760
Speaker 1: that we don't actually know that they disappeared. I think

1177
01:05:24,800 --> 01:05:27,280
Speaker 1: they were probably were, but I wouldn't. I'm not a

1178
01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:31,080
Speaker 1: sure so I think I Silas is my favorite theory

1179
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:34,520
Speaker 1: for how you know, there are madrid of different reasons

1180
01:05:34,520 --> 01:05:36,480
Speaker 1: that he could have done it, or how he could

1181
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:39,560
Speaker 1: have done it or whatever, but I think he did it. Yeah,

1182
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:42,560
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I'm not convinced of anything. I do not

1183
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:45,800
Speaker 1: believe that they voluntarily took off on their own, but

1184
01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:48,840
Speaker 1: after that, I just I'm not willing to throw my

1185
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:52,000
Speaker 1: hat onto any one of these voluntarily. You mean they

1186
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:55,320
Speaker 1: disappeared themselves. Yes, I think they did voluntarily climate of

1187
01:05:55,400 --> 01:06:00,200
Speaker 1: that boat. Oh yeah, I just go start new lives. Yeah, out,

1188
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:03,800
Speaker 1: now that's kind of rare. Okay, Well, um, all of

1189
01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:06,920
Speaker 1: that having been said, UM, I think we're going to

1190
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:09,640
Speaker 1: wrap this one up. Don't forget to check out our

1191
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:14,240
Speaker 1: sponsors on our website. That website is Thinking Sideways podcast

1192
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:19,440
Speaker 1: dot com. You can download and listen to us pretty

1193
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:21,960
Speaker 1: much anywhere. You probably know how to do that because

1194
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:24,400
Speaker 1: you're listening to us right now, but just in case.

1195
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:27,680
Speaker 1: You can find us on iTunes, you can find us

1196
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:31,960
Speaker 1: on Google Play, you can find us on Stitcher, all

1197
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:34,720
Speaker 1: of those things. If you can subscribe, do so. If

1198
01:06:34,760 --> 01:06:37,120
Speaker 1: you want to leave out rating in a comment, please

1199
01:06:37,160 --> 01:06:40,680
Speaker 1: do so, especially star ratings like those better. You can

1200
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:44,640
Speaker 1: find us on social media. You can join the Facebook

1201
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:47,320
Speaker 1: group and like the page. You can find us on

1202
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:51,200
Speaker 1: Twitter where we are Thinking Sideways. We've got a sub

1203
01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:54,120
Speaker 1: credit called Thinking Sideways. There's a theme here. I know

1204
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:58,000
Speaker 1: you can tell you. You can contact us via email

1205
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:00,920
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail dot com. That is the

1206
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:03,320
Speaker 1: best way to contact us. Please don't tweet at me

1207
01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:06,000
Speaker 1: and say, hey, let's talk about something, because a hundred

1208
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:08,480
Speaker 1: and forty characters isn't going to cut it. Let's send

1209
01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:12,320
Speaker 1: an email. You can't support the show by buying merchandise

1210
01:07:12,720 --> 01:07:15,880
Speaker 1: off of our what's it red, Red Bubble and Zazzle. Yeah,

1211
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:19,920
Speaker 1: you can get shirts, s, mug stickers, bunch of stuff

1212
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:21,920
Speaker 1: on Zazzle and Red Bubble. Those links are on the

1213
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:26,040
Speaker 1: right hand panel. The other day, them using their coffee mug.

1214
01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:28,800
Speaker 1: I saw that it looked very it looked very muggy.

1215
01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:31,480
Speaker 1: It was it looked like it was actually working. That's

1216
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:33,040
Speaker 1: like I had had coffee and that the coffee was

1217
01:07:33,040 --> 01:07:38,600
Speaker 1: actually staying inside the mug. Yeah. So, um, yeah, I

1218
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:42,680
Speaker 1: think that's it for us. I'm gonna cruise on out

1219
01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:46,920
Speaker 1: of here. Oh, once again I got nothing. Vaminos