WEBVTT - Help, My ETF Got Hijacked by an Internet Flash Mob 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:08.440 Welcome to Trillions. I'm Joel Webber and I'm Eric bel 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:16.200 Tunis Eric. The past weekend change has been a pretty 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:18.680 interesting one in the market, to say the least. Uh, 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:22.640 we're talking about Reddit, game Stop Silver, don't forget a 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:27.040 m C the movie Theater. Yeah, totally it was. You know, 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:31.880 we've been watching all year how commission free trading plus 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:35.280 a lockdown plus the FED, which has helped stocks just 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:38.960 go up relentlessly, has created this sort of perfect storm 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:41.199 where you've got all these retail traders and then you 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:47.040 throw in stemmy checks and and yeah, and it's just 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:50.440 getting crazy. It's like a big gambling casino. And what 0:00:50.560 --> 0:00:53.560 happened this week, in my opinion, is that overall trend 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:57.240 had like a strain that took a more angry approach, 0:00:57.280 --> 0:00:59.360 which is, hey, let's let's use this to get back 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:02.040 at Wall Street. And I'll tell you I've never been 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:05.120 called suits so many times, um as I was last 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:07.600 week on Twitter and I started to get offended, but 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:09.759 then I realized my profile picture I'm wearing a suit, 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:13.360 so I couldn't really complain. But that's who the Reddit 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:15.800 people are trying to get back at, the suits. Who 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:18.679 they you know obviously Wall Street hedge funds, and it 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:22.440 became this fascinating national news story, and to help us 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:25.160 walk through how e t f s fit into it, 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:28.760 we brought in a couple other non suits Katherine Greifield 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:32.600 and Claire Valentine of Bloomberg News Um were their reporters 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:34.600 on e t f s and we're gonna talk to 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:37.120 them about what they witnessed and what it all meant 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:47.560 this time on Trillions. Help my e t f got hijacked, 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:54.480 Katie Claire, Welcome to Trillions. Thanks for having us, Yes, 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:57.480 thank you. Okay, I have to ask how did e 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:01.200 t f s figure into the the game Stop rebellion 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:05.720 because obviously game Stop the stock was a major target, 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:07.800 and all of this on on Robin Hood E t 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:10.639 f s, though not, didn't seem as obvious at least 0:02:10.639 --> 0:02:13.399 at the beginning. Clear. Yeah, I thought it was interesting 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:15.640 because I spent a lot of time on Reddit this 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:18.720 week and just looking at the chat rooms and things 0:02:18.760 --> 0:02:21.120 like that. No one's talking about e t f s. 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:23.799 They they want to really pump up game Stop. It's 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:27.520 these individual stocks, as we've seen retail investors really be 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:31.000 interested in. But yet, you know, game Stop is part 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:33.600 of E t F, so it undoubtedly had an impact 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:36.920 on it. And what was most striking, at least initially, 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:41.320 is just how game stops um price increase caused it 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:43.440 to have an oversized waiting and a lot of these 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:46.120 e t F s and what e t F s 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:49.399 were of particular interest Katie. Yeah, I was gonna say 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:51.240 it took a while to find an e t F angle, 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:56.240 but one emerged in the Spider SMP retail et F. 0:02:56.600 --> 0:03:00.560 That's ticker x RT, and I mean it wasn't x RT. 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:03.799 You also saw it in Gamer the g A m 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:08.560 R and also r w J, but it's felt particularly dramatic. 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:11.480 And x RT, I mean game stops wait. This is 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:13.840 an equal weight E t F for it's supposed to be, 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:17.480 but game stops waiting surged as high as twenty per cent, 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:21.360 which felt super dramatic, and you actually saw the fund's 0:03:21.400 --> 0:03:25.800 biggest single day outflow ever as people tried to I mean, 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:28.639 there's multiple theories. I spoke to Eric about it too 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:30.600 as I was trying to figure it out. There's multiple 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:33.280 theories as to why that happens. Uh. It could have 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:34.760 to do with the fact that people were just so 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:37.840 desperate to get ahold of game Stop shares, or simply 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:41.000 that the people who allocated to x RT for you know, 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:44.600 core retail sector exposure were like, I didn't set up 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:47.360 for this. I'm getting out. But it did shake up 0:03:47.400 --> 0:03:50.680 a bunch of passive index tracking e t f s eventually, 0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:54.080 which was super interesting. A couple of notes on this 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:57.080 was gamer the video game et F. There's like four 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:59.320 of them, but only one held Game Stop, and that's 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:02.000 g A MR. And at one point that e t 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:04.800 F was up like eighteen percent just on game stock alone. 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:07.920 The others were down and then it Now that's reversed obviously, 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:10.560 but at one point I think Game Stop was a 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:13.800 thirty two or thirty three percent waiting, and I believe 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:15.600 that at the time, for like I don't know, a 0:04:15.640 --> 0:04:18.240 couple hours there, it was the biggest weight in any 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:21.440 e t F in the world. Um at thirty something percent. 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:24.520 You just don't see that. Um. The one that it 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:26.880 beat I think was an Argentina. Argentina et F for 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:29.160 like one stock there like runs the whole country, and 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:31.440 so it's more it makes sense they're not in a 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:33.920 video game et F, but then in like big ones 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:36.719 like v t I where you have, like most of 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:40.000 America is in these big broad market ones. I looked 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:43.039 at the performance and game Stop is a point two 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:48.360 percent waiting and it and it contributed point four percent 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.840 of the return that week, so you barely felt it. 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:56.279 Although there's indirect consequences as game Stop became as the 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:58.960 better game Stop did the worst the market did, So 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:02.560 you could argue that there is an indirect consequence on 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:07.320 the bigger whole of mainstream broad indexes. But inside the 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:09.719 index games that meant nothing outside of a couple of 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:12.720 these sort of more niche plays that we just discussed 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:15.279 Katie brought up. But but I think that that's a 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:17.680 significant thing for us to spend a little bit more 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:19.599 time on, because we we do talk a lot about 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:23.240 thematic e t F s here on trillions um and 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:25.000 you know, take your pick of the ones that we've 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:27.920 talked about, so even video games. Right, So all of 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:31.440 a sudden, a video game e t F gets hijacked 0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:34.440 by something that's that most people might not even think 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:37.640 was in the in the e t F. How significant 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:41.080 is that? I mean to see something go from you know, 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:45.039 uh An also ran in the index to something of 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:46.800 an e t F is that really supposed to happen 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:50.320 that way? So what I think is interesting in this 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:53.280 is that, uh, you know, I I spoke to State 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:56.080 Street about s RT in particular, was like, what what 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:58.760 are you gonna do? It's a it's a passive fund. 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:02.120 It rebalances court of A is there any scenario in 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:05.000 which you would rebalance early? And the answer was no. 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:09.160 So basically until March, it's it feels like x RT 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:11.680 and these other funds that rebalance on a schedule or 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:15.360 kind of held hostage to game stops swings. I mean 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:18.359 I mentioned that it was as high as twenty percent, 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:20.440 and x ART Eric mentioned it was as high as 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:24.080 thirty percent, and gamer and now in x RT it's 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:27.320 down to six percent, which is still a very sizeable 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:30.120 waiting when you consider that it should be closer to 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:33.160 one percent. You know, again, this is an equal weight 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:37.320 at e t F that holds securities. But until March 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:41.159 it's really just again held hostage to the whims of 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:43.720 game stop And I guess read it to some extent, 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:47.200 and let me jump in here on the fact this 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:49.360 is I find this fascinating. If you look at the 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:52.040 e t s that hold game stop and have the 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:53.920 biggest allocation. One of them shows up in the top 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:58.039 twenties the micro CAPYTF. And this is fascinating because game 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:01.600 Stop we went from like basic small micro to large 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:04.280 cap and a big large cap. I think at one 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:07.359 point it was the three biggest company or in the ballpark. 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:11.880 I've never seen that. I mean, that's unprecedented that here 0:07:11.920 --> 0:07:15.520 you have like the two seventy biggest stock and it's 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:18.840 in a microcap BTF. That so, I think it spoke 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:21.480 to the quickness of the rise and the idea that 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:25.000 the herd could lift the stock that quickly. And that's 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:28.120 what got national news I think is just how fast 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:30.680 and how quick and how intense it happened. I mean 0:07:30.720 --> 0:07:34.600 game Stop one day traded more than Tesla and nothing 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:37.160 trades more than Tesla, and all week it traded over 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:40.119 a hundred billion. That is it's now all falling apart 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:43.840 and it's petering out. But it was I don't know, 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:46.240 like breath it was. I was breathless and my mind 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:49.000 was blown all week, I gotta be honest. Plus the 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:51.200 narrative of the little guy in the hedge fund, I mean, 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:53.120 it was just there was so much going on all 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:56.640 these different people from um, you know, celebrities were coming 0:07:56.680 --> 0:07:58.880 in and weighing in on it. I mean, it was wild, 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:02.480 but again we're not We've never seen anything like that. 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:06.760 And it also raises just questions about, especially with e 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:10.160 t f s, of like these unintended consequences of a 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:14.960 Reddit phenomenon that's suddenly hijacks something that's maybe not supposed 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:18.440 to get hijacked. Clear, how have you been making sense 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:21.280 of that? I mean, the main takeaway for me this 0:08:21.320 --> 0:08:24.160 week was just how weird it was. And that's everyone 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:27.400 that I talked to, regular fund managers were just so 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:30.000 baffled by this. And I think Eric kind of really 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:32.400 I loved his title of a note that he had 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:35.160 and it said Wall Street Bets is hijacking some e 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:37.680 t f s, but they can handle it. And I 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:39.360 think to me that sort of the takeaway. You know, 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:42.959 we're seeing game stops price come down. Now, these funds 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:45.200 can handle it. You know, x RT is going to 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:47.840 be fine. But along the way, it's really weird and 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:50.959 it's really throwing investors I'm sure for a loop who 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:53.040 have invested in some of these e t f s 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:55.120 thinking they're were getting one thing and now they're getting 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:57.560 another the Joel. Let me push back on that a 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:00.520 little bit, because one of the worries E t S 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:04.400 was that they were going to actually kill any movement 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:07.080 in stocks because it just this big blob that owned 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:09.280 everything and nothing could ever move or there would be 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:12.679 no price discovery. Um. I think this shows that the 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:15.880 e t F is in the backseat and active is 0:09:15.920 --> 0:09:18.320 in control, and I would think that would be reassuring. 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:21.600 The problem is the driver in this case was out 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:24.160 of their mind, and I think that's the new question 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:27.400 is what if the driver is crazy? But that's I 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:31.040 think would be would maybe satiate some of those concerns 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:32.960 that the E t F the tailwagon the dog. Clearly, 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:35.640 if that were the case, then this wouldn't have happened 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:38.360 because some of those E t f s would have been, 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:40.240 you know, the passive blob would have been too much 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:48.800 for this to happen. But it clearly wasn't. Another takeaway. 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:52.520 Another a story that we're watching is the relationship with ARC. 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:55.360 Ten days ago on a Saturday, I remember tweeting out 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:58.959 that there are people selling ARC merchandise. That's how red 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:02.199 hot ARC was and then it just boom, game stop. 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:05.520 Came along. Claire had a very time capsulely headline that 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:09.240 said something like game stop so big, nobody's thinking about 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:11.760 Cathy Wood right now, or something like that, and I thought, 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:14.360 what a what a crazy world we're in, and it's weird. 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:18.480 ARCS flows went away for a week, and then as 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:21.960 game stops, volume and performance stopped, you know, start coming down. 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:24.720 The volume petered out, the flows came back, and I'm like, 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:28.840 it's really interesting. Perhaps there's a battle for which object 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:30.960 can be shinier. I don't know, Claire, what were you 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:32.319 seeing with this? What do you make in this sort 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:35.480 of tango they're doing. Yeah, I was fascinated by kind 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:39.880 of that inverse um between arc and game Stop, and 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:43.480 it highlighted to me, I mean, we knew from anecdotal evidence, um, 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:45.200 but it's hard to get a read on how much 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:50.160 of these crazes are retail driven versus institutional for funds 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:52.800 like ARC and you know, to me, I had talked 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:56.480 with fund managers professionals who were super into arc um, 0:10:56.520 --> 0:10:59.120 but sort of this inverse and this tango highlighted to 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:02.000 me that there is a big portion of ARCS popularity 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:05.360 that is due to m retail more small time investors, 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:07.920 the ones who are you know, wearing ARC spreadshirts and 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.360 when they were, um, you know, sort of blindsided by 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:15.240 game stops rise, that distracted them or you know, caused 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:18.920 them to put money elsewhere, and those funds um inflows 0:11:18.920 --> 0:11:22.880 you know, suffered as a result. Also, the other thing 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:25.640 about this is that, like I said, game Stop became 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:27.480 a bit of a vix for a minute, because if 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:30.440 game stock went up, the rest of the market suffered. Katie, 0:11:30.480 --> 0:11:32.520 did you look into this all the idea that hedge 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:37.240 funds that were short game Stop had to sell growth 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:40.559 stocks to cover and was that why there was this 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:43.600 selling off of the market, which arguably hurt ARC because 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:46.280 they're long growth stocks. So this is another reason I 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:48.680 think ARC probably took a hit last week, or you know, 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:53.000 at least the their shine with their flows were diminished 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:55.280 a bit. Yeah. I think that's the point where this 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:59.560 turned from sort of a sideshow into we can't ignore this. 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:02.040 You know, you have the SMP, the NAZAC one hundred 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:05.520 are falling as well. And the theory that was raised 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:09.280 was that hedge funds are basically having to degross and 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:12.800 cut their risk exposure because they're being burned so badly 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:15.920 on their short bets. Goldman actually has a basket of 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:18.480 the most shorted stocks in the market. I think at 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:22.320 January was up over which is by far the best 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:26.040 month ever. So you have these heavily shorted stocks, and 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:28.480 this was exactly what Wall Street Bets was trying to do. 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:31.040 It was trying to engineer a short squeeze. So you 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:34.680 have those shots are stocks rallying like crazy, So it 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:37.480 makes sense that, you know, the hedge funds that were 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:40.800 heavily short those stocks would have to cut their positions, 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:43.679 and that did. We did see that bleed into the 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:47.000 major benchmarks, and obviously ARC was caught up in that 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:49.960 as well. I agree the market story was a shyde 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:52.440 show for a while until growth stocks started selling off. 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:56.600 Then it's everybody's problem and Tesla starts going down. Um. 0:12:56.640 --> 0:12:58.960 But what was fascinating and I think, you know, if 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:00.640 I'm the hedge fund industry, I have to do some 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:05.240 I have to do some internal introspection here. They picked 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:08.000 hedge funds as their opponent, hedge funds that were shorting, 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:11.200 like these fun names that do things you love, movie theaters, 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.600 video games, And it was amazing how much of society 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:19.520 rallied around these Internet people just because they were against 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:22.400 hedge funds. When you have AOC and Ted Cruz agreeing 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:25.960 and uniting, that's how bad people like. That's how much 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:29.280 hate there is for hedge funds. I honestly they have 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:31.080 some image work to do, in my opinion, and Wall 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.000 Street in general, I think some people just feel like 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:37.719 maybe there wasn't enough balancing out after two tho eight 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:39.480 of some of these Wall Street firms. I think they 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:41.640 just hedge funds. You don't really they don't see a 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:43.520 lot of outreach from them. People don't know what they do, 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:45.040 why they do it. They just have the image. They 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:47.880 get stuck. But I thought that was a fascinating one, 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:50.199 and I don't know arguably one that I think should 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:51.880 be somewhat of a wake up call to the financial 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:55.040 industry well, and especially after the pandemic to just only 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:57.280 accelerated that. I mean, you saw the stock market go 0:13:57.400 --> 0:13:59.640 up so much and yet unemployment that started Jane and 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:01.960 regular people are suffering. So I think I think that 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:05.360 just sort of exacerbated at all. I do think it's 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:09.040 crazy to see politicians across the aisle hopping on trying 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:10.920 to get a sound bite hating on hedge funds. I 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:14.440 think Senator Elizabeth Warren actually said that she wants to 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:18.920 see more day traders. It's just weird to see politicians 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:22.840 encouraging what is that. It's heart kind of reckless impulse 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:25.880 to pile into Game Stop, you know, boosted by over 0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:30.280 sixt percent in January alone. I mean, that's going to 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:34.040 end painfully for a portion of people. Well. At the 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:37.800 same time, though, there is chatter about a transaction tax, 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:42.640 which could also you know, be at least a moderate 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:45.840 speed bump on some of this activity. Okay, so we 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:49.120 haven't talked about another angle in the e t F 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:53.160 saga that was the last week, which was exclusively an 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:57.640 et F story, which was silber Um s LV became 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:00.640 with the horde, the reddit Wall Street Bet horde moved 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:06.560 on too after Game Stop. Why SLV well? Silver is 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:09.800 an interesting case because there's a lot of sort of 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:13.760 dueling on Wall Street Bets about where the silver squeeze started. 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:17.800 It started trending on Twitter, and uh, you know, everyone 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:19.800 was quick to say this is Wall Street bets, and 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:22.600 there were a few posts on Wall Street Bets about silver. 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:26.360 But then you saw people say, oh my gosh, Citadel 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.600 is the sixth largest holder of SLV. We're helping the 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:33.640 hedge funds. This isn't Wall Street Bets. So there is 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:38.480 some debate as to where the short silver movement started, 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:41.920 and that really highlights just the whole narrative of all 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:44.200 this happening. It's like who knows where these sorts of 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:46.240 things start, but yet they do start, and they kind 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:49.000 of take on a life of their own. Yeah, when 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:51.600 I was talking about so, I camera how it came up. 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:54.080 But first of all, I've picked up a lot of 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:57.920 new Wall Street Bets followers. So now I'm getting like 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:00.280 information and I'm either getting helpful in from ma sure 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:03.600 being called a suit right and left now. But one 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:06.760 of them was like basically saying that. Then they had 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:08.960 this diagram you ever see Star Wars where they meet 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:10.920 to go and they look at the Death Star map 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:13.280 and they're like, there's this one exhaust port that's a 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:15.040 flaw in the Death Star, and if we can get 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:16.640 a shot in there, the whole thing will blow up. 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:19.760 That's kind of how they thought silver was there, Like 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:22.400 if you can just rack up the cost of silver, 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:26.040 all of these big banks are short silver for inflation purposes. 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:29.520 And whatnot, and all the dominoes will fall, the whole 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:32.520 structure will blow up, will get revenge for two tho eight. Finally, 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:35.560 it was ambitious and it was laid up by somebody 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:37.240 who looked like they were knowing what they were doing 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:40.040 with the silver market. They had a lot of information, um, 0:16:40.200 --> 0:16:42.800 but it was just a week shot. I mean still 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:46.840 SLV traded seven billion. They definitely rose it about eight percent. 0:16:47.120 --> 0:16:49.280 I mean they moved the needle. But to do what 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:51.840 they wanted to do, Uh, plus what the in fighting 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:54.840 they all had to go in because the game stop 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:58.480 traded about the same amount as SLV, so they were split. 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:00.480 And that's the thing with this move, and you kind 0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:01.880 of have to all be in the same spot. And 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:03.240 that's what they were able to do with game stuff 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:06.080 on Wednesday last Wednesday, but they were unable to do 0:17:06.119 --> 0:17:07.960 with silver because of what Katie said. There was some 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:12.120 infighting and also this is a giganic pool of money 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:14.840 that exists. I don't know if I think they basically 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:16.600 bit off more than they could chew on the silver. 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:20.160 On the silver situation. And and you know, the other 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:23.800 element here is that we go from a micro cap 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:28.920 stock which they inflate into something else temporarily at least 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:33.720 and jump over to the commodity land. And you know, 0:17:33.920 --> 0:17:36.320 the other thing, Eric, that we've talked about with commodity 0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:38.399 e t f s is that this stuff is, you know, 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:42.720 there's actually underlying hard goods that back this stuff up. 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:47.160 Has anybody tried to actually redeem the silver? How much 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:49.600 of the play was about that? I don't think you've 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:53.600 seen that yet. I mean, so SLV uh, it's t 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:57.440 plus zero, so we should be getting real time inflows 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:00.840 like inflows for the data we see on Wednesday should 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:04.000 reflect Tuesday inflows. But maybe Eric can chime in here. 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:07.879 I think there's some weirdness about how physical silver has 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:11.840 traded that it doesn't quite reflect the previous day. But 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:15.040 if you look at shares outstanding on SLV, it doesn't 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:19.040 seem that anything has been redeemed so far at this 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:22.040 point in time, which is interesting. But I mean, it's 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:26.840 seen incredible inflows, just record inflows, so I would imagine 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:29.399 that some of that would come out, especially now that 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:33.920 the squeeze silver movement seems to have Peter doubt. Yeah, 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:37.200 I mean SLV took in one point five. I'm doing 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:39.760 the math he about about three billion in three days. 0:18:40.320 --> 0:18:42.200 That is a lot. I mean, that blows away their 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:44.879 record and that makes it the fifth most inflows of 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:47.359 any et F this year, just like that. So again 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:50.240 they can make a difference. But the problem is compared 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:51.600 to the amount of silver in the world, it's just 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:54.080 not that much. But the creations just mean that there's 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:56.520 going to be You could argue that the vault where 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:58.679 they keep the silver, which by the way, JP Morgan's 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:02.000 the custodian, some of these were like Keystone cop plans 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:03.840 where they just didn't quite think it all the way through. 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:06.359 Then there was a theory that JP Morgan was actually 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:09.120 very long silver and so all you're doing is helping them. 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:10.639 And then I'd see these people arguing with you do 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:13.880 with each other, like we're helping them. Stop. The whole 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:17.440 thing was it got game stop was more like whoa 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:20.600 silver was more like a funny like one was a 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:23.359 drama action and the next one was a comedy. I thought. 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:26.960 What I thought was interesting is there are questions too 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:30.840 about how the silver's stored in London and then how 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:34.320 to transport it during a lockdown, and just these wild 0:19:34.400 --> 0:19:37.840 things that these Reddit traders are impacting. I mean, it's 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:41.800 just it's just so strange. How do you do how 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:45.200 do you transport silver during a pandemic in a lockdown? 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:51.399 I think I think you asked for more time. Another thing, 0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:53.920 with these silver and gold ets that are physically back, 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:57.320 there's always been a sort of conspiracy wing of people 0:19:57.359 --> 0:19:59.920 who don't believe the goals there. The silver's there. Um 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:01.639 that said, there's been a couple of ts that have 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:05.960 popped up that will let a retail investor gets the 0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:08.600 precious metals sent to their house, and that's where some 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:11.280 of them wanted to go to these alternative ets, but 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:13.439 those don't have too much money. I mean, there's not 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:17.560 that many people that paranoid. Most people are fine trusting 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:20.639 black Rock and whoever else to store the silver in 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:23.320 a vault. But that's always been a concern, and that 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:25.080 kind of I guess came out here a little bit 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:28.480 with their arguing again because their goal was to try to, 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:31.520 I don't know, not let Wall Street benefit at all. 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:34.359 Compared to what we saw with the USO in the spring, 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:37.040 where you know the prospect of having oil delivered to 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:41.600 your house, I'd rather have silver delivered personally, no doubt, 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:45.040 but you know, for the record, Eric and I have 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:48.200 I think pitched in the in the course of doing 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:53.280 trillions every uh issuer in the Silver Actually, I don't 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:55.080 know about the Silver game. Eric, we should double back 0:20:55.119 --> 0:20:58.520 on our on our first But in the Gold World, 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:01.680 we've asked everything person to take us to their vaults 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:04.680