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Speaker 1: dot org slash iHeart before we begin Please note this

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Speaker 1: series includes talk of suicide and sexual violence. Please take

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Speaker 1: care while listening. Badge bunny, holster, sniffer, road hog. As

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Speaker 1: I've reported this story, a couple of new terms were

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Speaker 1: forced into my lexicon. I had to google them, but

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Speaker 1: I sensed they'd be derogatory, and I was right. In

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Speaker 1: the most crude fashion, they're used to describe women who

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Speaker 1: have sex with cops on duty. These were terms that

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Speaker 1: were u used by various people trying to explain Sandy's

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Speaker 1: connections to local cops. People who were trying to assure

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Speaker 1: me that these relationships must have been consensual, that Sandy

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Speaker 1: just wanted it. She was a self professed cop freak

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Speaker 1: after all the bills. They saw this coming back in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty one. When I told them what I'd found

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Speaker 1: out about the ten cops, their initial reaction was, here

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Speaker 1: comes the mud. They knew that some would judge and

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Speaker 1: blame Sandy. It's a pretty incredible attempt at totally deflecting responsibility.

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Speaker 1: Jill Philippovich is a feminist author and lawyer. I asked

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Speaker 1: her what she made of these terms, like if the

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Speaker 1: telling is okay, this girl was just a badge bunny,

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Speaker 1: a pistol sniffer. That really does remove the bigger picture,

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Speaker 1: which is that in this particular case, it was a

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Speaker 1: group of adult men who were in charge of this

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Speaker 1: teenage girl. I have no hard evidence that Sandy didn't

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Speaker 1: consent to these relationships with PG County Police, but even

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Speaker 1: if she did consent, it doesn't mean these relationships were appropriate.

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Speaker 1: Consent can be coerced. Consent can be a product of

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Speaker 1: fear or a desire to please or just to avoid

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Speaker 1: a messy scene. Consent is an important concept, but it

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Speaker 1: has limitations when it's used as the sole factor for

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Speaker 1: determining whether or not sex is ethical. I think if

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Speaker 1: we're just thinking of it through this frame of did

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Speaker 1: she consent or not, then we miss the reality that

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Speaker 1: the police officers in this situation, they're the adults in

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Speaker 1: the room. They have a responsibility to cultivate young entrants

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Speaker 1: into their field. What instead she's learning from these men

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Speaker 1: on the force is that she's a sexual object that

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Speaker 1: she's expected or perhaps wanted to have sex with them.

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Speaker 1: Of course, it's possible that a teenage girl is going

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Speaker 1: to want to have sex with ten different men in

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Speaker 1: the same department, but that strikes me as un likely.

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Speaker 1: What strikes me is more likely is that this is

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Speaker 1: a teenage girl who is just sort of figuring out

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Speaker 1: who she is as an adult, who is just figuring

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Speaker 1: out what it means to have a job, what it

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Speaker 1: means to enter a male dominated workforce. All of her

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Speaker 1: understanding of that is going to be shaped by the

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Speaker 1: expectations that are set by the men who are already

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Speaker 1: doing that job. Before Sandy died, she wrote something that

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Speaker 1: gets to the heart of how these relationships made her feel.

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Speaker 1: Quote but as always, they have their fun and the

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Speaker 1: hell with you? Why me? Why do I get fucked

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Speaker 1: over so bad? From iHeartRadio. I'm Melissa Jelson and this

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Speaker 1: is what happened to Sandy Beale an iHeart original podcast,

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Speaker 1: Chapter four, The Stink. My belief that a number of

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Speaker 1: PG County police officers were having inappropriate relationships with Sandy

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Speaker 1: is largely based on Detective Shozelski's recollection that he was

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Speaker 1: inundated with phone calls after her death. Were cops all

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Speaker 1: but admitted to it? What did you make of her

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Speaker 1: spending all this time and having sexual relationships with police officers?

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Speaker 1: I knew it was going to be a stink. I

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Speaker 1: didn't imagine it being years later, the alusive stink was

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Speaker 1: going to come back with it. When Detective Shozelski initially

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Speaker 1: told me about the phone calls, it was an offhand

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Speaker 1: remark that he didn't seem to attribute much meaning to.

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Speaker 1: That's how I interpreted his tone, anyway. But I've spoken

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Speaker 1: to him a number of times since, and he told

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Speaker 1: me that he too believes that Sandy was horribly used

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Speaker 1: mistreated by his fellow cops, often considerably older, and she

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Speaker 1: was just the cure, you know what I mean. And uh,

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Speaker 1: I feel though that they should have never done what

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Speaker 1: they did. Yeah, it was just it's a relief to

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Speaker 1: hear Detective Shoyshchelski acknowledged this outright, as I've spent much

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Speaker 1: of the last year exploring the extent of this unethical behavior,

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Speaker 1: and I want to recap what I've uncovered so far.

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Speaker 1: Sandy started going on ride alongs in her senior year

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Speaker 1: of high school at just eighteen years old. At the

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Speaker 1: time of her death, she was in a relationship with

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Speaker 1: one cop, a married state trooper named Doug. Her body

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Speaker 1: was found a mile away from his place of work

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Speaker 1: in a pole yard that was known to be frequented

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Speaker 1: by cops. There was sperm in her body. Her family

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Speaker 1: recalled that she would socialize with police officers at night.

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Speaker 1: Her address books were filled with the names and numbers

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Speaker 1: of local cops, including some that I've been able to

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Speaker 1: confirm participated in the Explorer program at that time. But honestly,

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Speaker 1: there's a limit to the knowledge I can gather about

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Speaker 1: Sandy's relationships with local cops, and at this point, I

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Speaker 1: feel like I've hit it. Unless I get some new information.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't mean I'm going to stop probing the question

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Speaker 1: of what all this means. I think we owe it

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Speaker 1: to Sandy to contemplate this scenario in which the team

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Speaker 1: was victimized by a group of police officers, because I

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Speaker 1: think it's very possible that that's what happened. Being deliberately

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Speaker 1: indifferent to the suffering of women is historic and society,

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Speaker 1: and it's certainly reflects it in law enforcement. So that's

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Speaker 1: what you saw. Mark Wynn is an expert in police violence.

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Speaker 1: He's a retired police officer who now works to train

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Speaker 1: other police officers how to better handle crimes against women.

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Speaker 1: I've interviewed him in the past, and I trust his

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Speaker 1: instincts and anybody most debate me on this, I'm more

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Speaker 1: than happy to do it. I mean, I'm not somebody

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Speaker 1: just read this somewhere. I spent my entire adult life

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Speaker 1: working in law enforcement, so I know my family well.

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Speaker 1: Mark started policing in nineteen seventy seven, the same year

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Speaker 1: Sandy died. He looks like what you might envision when

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Speaker 1: you think of a cop. He's tall and broad shouldered

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Speaker 1: and has a thick mustache. He's also one of the

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Speaker 1: most courteous and patient individuals I've ever met. If you

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Speaker 1: ever have to call the cops, you'd want someone like

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Speaker 1: Mark to show up. Well, all you have to do

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Speaker 1: is look at the history of policing in our country

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Speaker 1: or in other country. It's been a job for men,

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Speaker 1: managed by men, run by men, and that's true for

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Speaker 1: the most part in the entire criminal justice system. I

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Speaker 1: think when you exclude women from any you know, function,

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Speaker 1: social or government, and put a bunch of men together

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Speaker 1: in the room, you're going to have problems. I told

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Speaker 1: him what I'd learned so far about Sandy, my life

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Speaker 1: as a cop freak, Doug, the phone calls, the ten cops,

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Speaker 1: all of it. I mean, there's a potential there for

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Speaker 1: someone to take advantage of that relationship, no question about it.

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Speaker 1: First of all, you're not talking about an emotionally mature person.

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Speaker 1: You're talking about somebody you know very easily the influence

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Speaker 1: with an offender. It's the perfect setting. You have authority,

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Speaker 1: you're telling these folks what to do. So can you

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Speaker 1: imagine what this young woman must have been thinking right

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Speaker 1: along this police car. You know, a teenager with an

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Speaker 1: adult with a gun and a badge, with full authority,

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Speaker 1: So it must have been pretty intimidating. Mark was pretty

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Speaker 1: blunt and forthcoming with his theory about Sandy's case, and

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Speaker 1: he told me he'd seen things like it before. I

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Speaker 1: suspect and from what I've seen in other situations, they

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Speaker 1: were passing around from one ulcer to the next. You know,

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Speaker 1: she a young, impressionable woman and they knew it. That's

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Speaker 1: what made her vulnerable. And nobody with any moral fiber

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Speaker 1: obviously stepped in and said, what is going on here?

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Speaker 1: It happened at my academy. You know, instructors extorting young

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Speaker 1: women for better scores on their test, singling out women

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Speaker 1: who they wanted to sexually abuse. Well, and this is

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Speaker 1: the thing about predation. It works better for the predator

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Speaker 1: if your victim is vulnerable, and what more vulnerable place than,

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Speaker 1: you know, a desperate young person trying to start a

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Speaker 1: career in law enforcement. From Mark, the sheer number of

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Speaker 1: officers involved with Sandy made them suspicious. It's highly unlikely

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Speaker 1: that they weren't that as police departments are we're talking

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Speaker 1: about all this and sharing information. It almost sounded like

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Speaker 1: she was being trafficked from one officer to the next.

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Speaker 1: Tractors obviously make money off of it, but they weren't

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Speaker 1: making money. If this is the case, they were passioning

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Speaker 1: around for sexual gratification. Mark's theory is that these police

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Speaker 1: officers they use their power and authority for sexually motivated reasons.

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Speaker 1: There's actually a term for that police sexual misconduct, and

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Speaker 1: for victims who experience it, it can be an extremely

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Speaker 1: isolating kind of abuse. Well, this is the thing with

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Speaker 1: any kind of misconduct. I mean the fact that you

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Speaker 1: have a uniform and you represent authority, and you know

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Speaker 1: this is somebody using that authority for another reason. This

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Speaker 1: is somebody you when they tell you to do something,

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Speaker 1: you obey it. And most people do. They the law.

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Speaker 1: They don't want to get in trouble with the police.

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Speaker 1: There's no sign of identity theft slowing down, and why

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Speaker 1: should it. More Than twenty nine billion dollars were stolen

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Speaker 1: a wake up call. Your personal info is in more

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Speaker 1: places now than ever, and all that exposure can make

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Speaker 1: crime podcast. The year is eighteen hundred City Hall, New York.

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Speaker 1: The first murder trial in the American judicial system, a

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Speaker 1: When you lay suffering a sudden, violent, brutal death, I

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Speaker 1: hope you'll think of me, Starring Alison Williams. I don't

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Speaker 1: need anything simplified, mister Hamilton, Thank you, with Tony Goldwyn

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Speaker 1: as Alexander Hamilton. Don't be so sad, It doesn't suit you.

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Speaker 1: Written and created by me Alison Block. Listen to erase

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Speaker 1: the murder of Elma Sans. She was a sweet, happy,

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Speaker 1: want to take you down a short tangent now, because

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Speaker 1: I don't think you can understand Sandy's story without knowing

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Speaker 1: more about the culture that allows this kind of abuse

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Speaker 1: to flourish. And it does flourish because despite very few

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Speaker 1: victims wanting to come forward. Sexual misconduct is the second

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Speaker 1: most frequently reported form of police misconduct, according to research

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Speaker 1: by the Cato Institute. Police sexual misconduct is a dry term,

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Speaker 1: but it encompasses a wide range of troubling behavior, everything

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Speaker 1: from stopping a car without cause to flirt with the

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Speaker 1: driver to a sexual shakedown, which is when an officer

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Speaker 1: extorts sexual favors in exchange for not ticketing or arresting

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Speaker 1: the person. And a lot of police sexual misconduct isn't

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Speaker 1: actually criminal. It is, however, totally unethical. Take for instance,

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Speaker 1: an officer who responds to a domestic violence call and

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Speaker 1: uses it as an opportunity to have sex with the

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Speaker 1: distraught victim. In a number of states, it's even legal

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Speaker 1: to have sex with someone in your custody. To learn more,

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Speaker 1: I track down one of the few experts that actually

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Speaker 1: studies this stuff. My name is Timothy Maher and I

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Speaker 1: am a professor in the Criminology and Criminal Justice Department

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Speaker 1: at the University of Missouri Saint Louis. Timothy also used

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Speaker 1: to be a cop. He spent thirteen years as a

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Speaker 1: police officer in LaDue, Missouri. I was watching a news

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Speaker 1: magazine television show back in the early two thousands, and

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Speaker 1: they did a story on a case in New York

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Speaker 1: State where a police officer was pulling women over under

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Speaker 1: the pretense of a DWI stop. He told the young

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Speaker 1: woman that he was going to cut her a break,

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Speaker 1: but he still had to punish her in some way.

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Speaker 1: So he said, as your punishment, I'm going to make

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Speaker 1: you walk home, and you also have to take all

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Speaker 1: your clothes off. So she was afraid, and it was

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Speaker 1: dark and all alone. It was kind of a remote area,

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Speaker 1: and so she reluctantly agreed, and he graciously let her

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Speaker 1: keep her shoes on you because she said it hurt

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Speaker 1: to walk in her bare feet. Timothy quickly discovered that

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Speaker 1: there was very little research on police sexual misconduct. We

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Speaker 1: don't even have answers to basic questions like how prevalent

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Speaker 1: it is. We have no way of knowing how much

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Speaker 1: of this behavior goes on. Many people are reluctant to

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Speaker 1: report on the police when these incidents occur. They might

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Speaker 1: report it to someone else sexually assaulted them, but when

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Speaker 1: a police officer sexually assaults them, they often think twice

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Speaker 1: about it, and many of them frankly don't report it.

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Speaker 1: And when victims do report, it's generally their word against

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Speaker 1: a sworn police officer. The cover of darkness plays a role.

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Speaker 1: It seems funny, but a lot of this behavior goes

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Speaker 1: on after hours when there's very few other people around

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Speaker 1: to witness it, and everybody else goes to bed, but

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Speaker 1: there's a few people out there still roaming around. And

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Speaker 1: then there's the pl because the police work at night.

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Speaker 1: You know, you can stop a car, if you want

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Speaker 1: to stop a car, you can get out and walk

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Speaker 1: around and confront people and ask them to come over

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Speaker 1: and even voluntarily talk to me or involuntarily, but there's

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Speaker 1: no one there to stop you. Really, the truth is

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Speaker 1: police typically in our society and our culture, are, you know,

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Speaker 1: have the authority and power and this opportunity to engage.

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Speaker 1: I learned something interesting about the role of group dynamics

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Speaker 1: bad behavior can be concentrated to a single shift or

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Speaker 1: a particular group of officers. The day shift could be fine,

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Speaker 1: for example, but certain night shifts may tolerate deviant behavior.

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Speaker 1: One study looking at the Chicago PD found that officers

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Speaker 1: who worked with colleagues who used excessive force were more

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Speaker 1: likely to engage in the same kind of conduct. The

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Speaker 1: behavior was contained, as the studies senior author wrote, quote,

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Speaker 1: officers peers may serve as social conduits through which misconduct

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Speaker 1: is learned and transmitted, but there is that culture of

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Speaker 1: not reporting on fellow officers generally in law enforcement, not

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Speaker 1: just for sexual misconduct, but for lots of behaviors. Timothy

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Speaker 1: has interviewed numerous police officers about their perceptions of police

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Speaker 1: sexual misconduct. In one two thousand and three study, he

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Speaker 1: found that while police officers believe that sexual misconduct was

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Speaker 1: common quote, criminal justice officials have done little to help

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Speaker 1: control the problem, suggesting that this problem may in part

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Speaker 1: be fostered by the police subculture. The officers I spoke

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Speaker 1: with said they drew the line though at very serious

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Speaker 1: criminal behavior, inappropriate comments the sex on duty, minor violations

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Speaker 1: of rules and regulations, where you know what they don't

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Speaker 1: report on each other. It's the blue wall of silence.

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Speaker 1: It's that you just don't deal with that. Most of

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Speaker 1: them would say, I'm not their supervisor. I don't have

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Speaker 1: to deal with them. That's the boss's job now. I

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Speaker 1: interviewed sergeants and lieutenants too. What I learned was that,

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Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't unique just to the patrol officers.

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Speaker 1: Are the non ranking officers that you know, ranking and

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Speaker 1: supervising officers were engaging in this behavior as well. I

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Speaker 1: want to take you back to FOP Lodge number eighty nine,

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Speaker 1: the cop club in Prince George's County, the place where

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Speaker 1: Sandy's family said she would get drinks with police after hours.

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Speaker 1: Except instead of nineteen seventy seven, it's twenty seventeen, exactly

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Speaker 1: forty years later. It's two am, and a group of

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Speaker 1: cops are grabbing drinks. Some of them are still in uniform,

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Speaker 1: including a young woman who i'll call Marie. She's just

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Speaker 1: a few years out of the academy and she's hanging

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Speaker 1: out with her coworkers and her lieutenant, who i'll call David.

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Speaker 1: The lounge closes and the group migrates outside to the

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Speaker 1: parking lot. After a while Marie really needs to pee,

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Speaker 1: so she walks into the woods for some privacy. On

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Speaker 1: her way back, in the darkness, she's pulled to the ground.

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Speaker 1: Her lieutenant David has grabbed her. He thrusts his hands

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Speaker 1: down her trousers, sexually assaulting her. Marie doesn't officially report

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Speaker 1: the incident, fearing retribution. Even as a new cop, she

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Speaker 1: understands the consequences of squealing on a fellow officer, but

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Speaker 1: news of what happened gets around the department, and two

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Speaker 1: years later she's called into internal affairs and asked about

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Speaker 1: the incident, she speaks her truth. After David is charged

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Speaker 1: with sexual assault, Marie's working environl becomes one of intimidation

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Speaker 1: and fear. She's shunned by her colleagues and blamed for

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Speaker 1: the prosecution of her abuser, even receiving a threat via text.

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Speaker 1: In a brazen show of solidarity with her lieutenant, high

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Speaker 1: ranking police officers packed the courtroom to support him at trial. Ultimately,

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Speaker 1: he's found guilty and sentenced to seven years in prison.

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Speaker 1: Marie is reassigned to the evidence department, in effect a

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Speaker 1: desk job. She later leaves PG County Police due to

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Speaker 1: what she describes as a hostile working environment. Marie might

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Speaker 1: have thought she was one of the boys, but she

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Speaker 1: wasn't part of the brotherhood. Marie, she didn't just lose

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Speaker 1: her job. Trauma has a cost. It costs time, money, energy,

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Speaker 1: and it costs Marie her peace of mind. After the assault, well,

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Speaker 1: she reported having nightmares, crying spells, heightened anxiety. This attack

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Speaker 1: and the culture that tolerated it had ousted her from

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Speaker 1: a community she worked so hard to join, and then

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Speaker 1: she was blamed for her own downfall. All of this

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Speaker 1: made me think of Sandy. If Sandy was a victim

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Speaker 1: of some kind of police sexual abuse, I think it's

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Speaker 1: fair to assume it would have weighed heavily on her

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Speaker 1: mental health too. One more secret the teen had to carry.

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Speaker 1: Police sexual misconduct has been a problem in our profession

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Speaker 1: for decades. That's Tom Tremblay. He's a former police chief

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Speaker 1: with a thirty year career in law enforcement. These days,

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Speaker 1: he works to advise police departments on how to respond

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Speaker 1: to domestic violence and sexual misconduct, including within its own ranks.

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Speaker 1: You can't talk about policing without a really courageous conversation

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Speaker 1: about male dominated culture, about hyper masculinity, and this is

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Speaker 1: something that our profession hasn't done. And when I taught,

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Speaker 1: when I address hyper masculinity and male privilege in trainings

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Speaker 1: around the country, I've oftentimes met, you know, in this

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Speaker 1: male dominated culture with what do you mean male privilege?

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Speaker 1: What do you mean hyper masculinity? In twenty twenty, Tom

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Speaker 1: helped to author a model policy for how police departments

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Speaker 1: should handle sexual misconduct within the ranks. It prohibits using

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Speaker 1: a law enforcement position, badge or identification card to solicit, initiate,

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Speaker 1: or core sexual contact with anyone, and it explicitly bans

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Speaker 1: sexual contact with anyone in a police explorer program. You

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Speaker 1: might think that police departments would already have specific policies

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Speaker 1: on this issue, but Tom told me that many don't.

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Speaker 1: And so one of the major challenges that I see

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Speaker 1: when I talked to police leaders around the country is

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Speaker 1: the first thought process is, we don't need a policy

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Speaker 1: to tell officers they can't sexually harass or sexually assault

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Speaker 1: colleagues or citizens. We just don't need that. It's not necessary.

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Speaker 1: These police chiefs might not feel like it's necessary to

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Speaker 1: explain to their officers that they shouldn't break the law.

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Speaker 1: But a lot of police sexual misconduct isn't illegal, and

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Speaker 1: without it being clearly defined, it lives in this murky

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Speaker 1: space of being wrong but silently tolerated. One of the

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Speaker 1: policy components that I recommend that law enforcement consider is

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Speaker 1: that consent shall not be an affirmative defense for any

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Speaker 1: behavior that's addressed by prohibited conduct of sexual harassment or

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Speaker 1: sexual misconduct. Meaning a cop can't just justify breaking the

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Speaker 1: rules by saying that the victim consented simply because the

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Speaker 1: police the badge and the gun, and the authority to

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Speaker 1: stop and detain someone, search someone, arrest someone take their

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Speaker 1: freedom away. All of those things are interconnected. Of course,

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Speaker 1: a policy on police sexual misconduct is only as good

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Speaker 1: as its enforcement, But in a culture where secrecy reigns,

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Speaker 1: mandating that such behavior must be reported can help to

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Speaker 1: break apart the blue wall of silence. If someone sees

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Speaker 1: something or suspects something, they're obligated to come forward, not

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Speaker 1: to turn away. The PG County Police Department does not

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Speaker 1: have a police sexual misconduct policy, though when I asked

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Speaker 1: a spokesperson about this, they sent me a few pages

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00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: twenty for twenty percent off. When Sandy started training to

488
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: be a cop, only two percent of law enforcement officers

489
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: in the US were women. That number grew to around

490
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: thirteen percent by the end of the nineties, and then

491
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: it just stagnated. It has remained virtually the same for

492
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: over two decades. Compare that to New Zealand, where I

493
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: was born. They're about thirty two percent of cops are women,

494
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: and they have a goal of recruiting fifty percent women

495
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: in order to better reflect the diverse communities that they police.

496
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 1: Like Mark Wynn said, the consequences of leaving women out

497
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: of the room are severe. Not only can it breed

498
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: hyper masculinity, but it doesn't reflect the true makeup of society.

499
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 1: And there's evidence that women police differently than men do.

500
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: They're generally less authoritarian and less likely to employ both

501
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: excessive and deadly force, and they may be uniquely positioned

502
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: to help female victims of crime. Studies show that domestic

503
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: violence victims for example, are more likely to report to

504
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: female cops, who tend to show more patience and concern

505
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: than their male counterparts. But if you're a female victim

506
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 1: in the US, it's to bistically likely that a male

507
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 1: police officer will respond to your call for help. He

508
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 1: likely will have been trained by a man, his boss

509
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 1: is probably a man, and he will have spent his

510
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 1: entire career working in an environment where women's voices are

511
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:18,760
Speaker 1: rarely heard. I keep thinking about Marie, the female cop

512
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 1: who was sexually assaulted at the FOP lodge. She's not

513
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 1: out in the world working as a police officer right now.

514
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,879
Speaker 1: Like Sandy, she didn't get to fulfill her potential. How

515
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 1: many other women have similar stories. Here's Kim and Stephen

516
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 1: talking about Sandy's dreams. I think she would have been

517
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 1: a trailblazer. She had a strong sense of justice. She

518
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: was someone that knew the streets well and understood urban life,

519
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: and she would have just been really great. She had

520
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: a heart for people, heart for women, heartner's humankind in general.

521
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 1: And so we lost somebody that probably could have been

522
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: a really good police officer. Look bye now, and she

523
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 1: probably would have made a good cop. Man. You know.

524
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 1: I mean she could have handled being a cop. You

525
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:07,919
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying that. You know, if that kind

526
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 1: of gives you an insight, she'd have been an advocate.

527
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,479
Speaker 1: She would have been a really strong personality. I would

528
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: love to have been able to spend more time. I'd

529
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 1: have to really think about that, because I'm feeling tears

530
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: as I think about it. Because we did. We lose

531
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:30,800
Speaker 1: out our dreams and our desires got thwarted. They got it,

532
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 1: got dashed, taken away from us. The way Sandy was

533
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 1: treated by PG County cops, who, according to Detective Shoshlsky,

534
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 1: expressed no remorse after her death. It was like she

535
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: was less than in their eyes, disposable. It made me

536
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 1: wonder how their attitudes towards women might have carried over

537
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 1: into their work, influencing the way they interacted with female victims.

538
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,760
Speaker 1: It's worth noting that domestic violence calls are the largest

539
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:09,280
Speaker 1: categories of calls that police officers respond to. Here's Jill.

540
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,360
Speaker 1: I think that does call into question how they behave

541
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: in other aspects of their work, right, how they investigate

542
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: crimes against women, how they treat acts of sexual violence.

543
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 1: I just don't see a universe in which you can

544
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: have those really misogynist, really toxic group norms and still,

545
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 1: for example, investigate a rape case in a completely full

546
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,879
Speaker 1: and fair way, or investigate a suicide of a young

547
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: woman in a completely full and fair way. A woman

548
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: who may have been slandered as a quote badge bunny,

549
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 1: one who may have been at the center of a stink.

550
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: I took you down this road, this tangent on police

551
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: sexual misconduct to help explain why I think these relationships

552
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 1: Sandy had with local police, and I hesitate to call

553
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:03,359
Speaker 1: them relationships, were on and wrong. PG County knew about

554
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: these relationships while they investigated her death, and they didn't

555
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: say anything to her family. There was no acknowledgment of wrongdoing.

556
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 1: But learning all of this, it doesn't exactly illuminate what

557
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 1: happened in the Pollyard that night and whether it was

558
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: Sandy who used the gun that ended her life. So

559
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,680
Speaker 1: in our next episode, I want to return to the

560
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 1: physical evidence, reviewing it with top experts in the field.

561
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: And right when I was assembling this episode, I got

562
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 1: an email from PG County. After months of asking, they

563
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:45,000
Speaker 1: finally sent me Sandy Bill's file. To my surprise, it

564
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 1: was ninety five pages long, and it revealed something new

565
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 1: that upended my assumptions about how and when Sandy became

566
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:57,799
Speaker 1: so close to PG County Police, because, as it turns out,

567
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 1: she had reached out to them for help. Sandy had

568
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: a stalker. That's on our next episode. How many times

569
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 1: in your career if you remember, have you seen a

570
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: teenage girl shoot herself handled Hanna? Probably less than five

571
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: ever in that app to huh No. If you're a

572
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 1: victim of polease sexual violence, I'd love to speak with you.

573
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 1: Please send me an email at what Happened to Sandy

574
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: Beal at gmail dot com. What Happened to Sandy Beal

575
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,400
Speaker 1: is hosted by me Melissa Jelson. It's written and produced

576
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: by me and Katrina Norvel. The podcast is edited by

577
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 1: Abu Safar, sound designed by Aaron Kaufman. Jason English is

578
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: our executive producer. Research and production assistance by Marisa Brown.

579
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: To find out more about my investigation, follow me on

580
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 1: Twitter at quasimado. That's qu as I am a d Oh.

581
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:00,279
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for listen. Nin