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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of I Saw What

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Speaker 1: You Did. My name is Millie to Jericho.

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Speaker 2: I'm Danielle Henderson.

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Speaker 1: And this is a film podcast for you all. How's

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Speaker 1: it going, Danielle going great.

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Speaker 2: I have some homemade coffee today in my dollic mug.

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Speaker 1: Oh, a dollic mug. I was like, what, it's a

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Speaker 1: doctor who thing.

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Speaker 2: It's a doctor who thing. I drink my coffee out

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Speaker 2: of a a blue mug that has the white schematics

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Speaker 2: of a dollic on it, and it's my mug, Like

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Speaker 2: when people come to visit. I don't get crazy if

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Speaker 2: somebody grabs it out of the yeah cabinet, but I'm like,

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Speaker 2: that's that's my mug.

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Speaker 1: That's Papa's mug.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, I totally get it. I totally have my nerdy

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Speaker 1: nerdy mug.

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Speaker 2: It's a really cute one.

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Speaker 1: I like it cute. I drink my coffee out of

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Speaker 1: this ninety six ounce insulated yetty thing because I need

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Speaker 1: the uh, the container to be as large as possible.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know why people are popping off on

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Speaker 2: that Stanley mug so much, because that Yetni mug is

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Speaker 2: minimum three times a side listen.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to, like I'm not ready to, you know,

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Speaker 1: show an a filiation necessarily, but because I feel like,

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Speaker 1: weirdly enough, there is such identity when it comes to

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Speaker 1: these fucking insulated mugs. Like people are like, who are

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Speaker 1: you like a Stanley person? Are you a Yetty person?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Wait, are you like a hydroflask person? Wow? That's really

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Speaker 1: old school. I'm like, what, how how did we come

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Speaker 1: up to with this, with this taxonomy?

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Speaker 2: This is green while I'm a person from the nineties

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Speaker 2: who's like, oh, I'm a You're lucky I'm drinking water

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Speaker 2: on purpose person. Yeah, because we didn't grow up with that,

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Speaker 2: we didn't grow up hydrated.

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Speaker 1: And so if I'm drinking water on.

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Speaker 2: Purpose, whether it's out of a jelly jar or my

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Speaker 2: fucking cupped palm, yeah, congratulations.

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Speaker 1: I remember when there was a brief period of time,

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Speaker 1: like I don't know, maybe like last year, where people

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Speaker 1: were going back to those like nalgalene analgaene. Yeah, analgene

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Speaker 1: is that it's is saying analgae, Yeah, analogy. I've said

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Speaker 1: it wrong for so long, twenty years, twenty years because

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Speaker 1: then and then I was like, okay, so what's the

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Speaker 1: purpose of this. This doesn't even keep anything cold, So

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Speaker 1: what are we doing here? It's so stupid. I went

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Speaker 1: to put the fuck and then this standley thing is

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Speaker 1: outrageous because it's like people are like punching each other

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Speaker 1: in the face to get these like limited edition ones.

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Speaker 1: I forget one and the Starbucks one.

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Speaker 2: I barely understood that shit when it was for Cabbage

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Speaker 2: Patch Kids, which was something I actually wanted. And I'm like,

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Speaker 2: why are you fighting over these cute little dolls? I

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Speaker 2: won one hundred percent. I'm not understanding people fighting over

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Speaker 2: these mugs and target for their little kids to carr

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Speaker 2: and kids are getting beat up in school.

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Speaker 1: For their mugs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, capitalism is crazy, y'all.

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Speaker 1: Get y'all know.

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Speaker 2: I just want to make sure everyone knows you don't

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Speaker 2: have to do this. You don't have to participate in

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Speaker 2: any level of capitalism that encourages you to fight people.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's so funny you mentioned this because lately

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Speaker 1: I have been scrolling through your Instagram stories and I've

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Speaker 1: come to the conclusion that you're in a very anti

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Speaker 1: capitalist moment right now. Yes, like you've had some You've

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Speaker 1: had some takes late lately, that's like, you know, really

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Speaker 1: burning the house down, which I really Oh the whole

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Speaker 1: thing about the beauty, the beauty Indus stuff that you

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Speaker 1: posted the other day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I was on one. Yeah that's what happens.

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Speaker 2: I get like a wild hair and I'm just like,

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Speaker 2: y'all gotta hear about it today. And it's always on

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Speaker 2: like a Sunday morning when people are relaxing or going

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Speaker 2: to church or whatever, and then they open Instagram and

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Speaker 2: I'm like, stop being in a.

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Speaker 1: Bullshit yeah no, and listen. It's a it's a good

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Speaker 1: reminder because I gotta tell you, I realize. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is if you've listened to the past, like I

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Speaker 1: don't know, ten episodes, you've probably maybe if you're smart,

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Speaker 1: put together this like arc of what's happening in my

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Speaker 1: life right now, which is that I've just been participating

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Speaker 1: in the lowest forms of culture. I think every like

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Speaker 1: ever in historic historically Millie like, I'm just an absolute

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Speaker 1: dumbass right now. I have no desire for anything. And

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Speaker 1: it's it's this moment where I'm like, I have I've

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Speaker 1: connected the dots and I've realized that it is probably

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Speaker 1: due to some kind of depression that I've experienced in

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Speaker 1: the past year and a half because I was unemployed,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay, so let's put that. Let's fucking

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Speaker 1: put this puzzle together. What am I into right now? Uh?

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Speaker 1: Reality TV, TikTok k pop buying shit four hundred and

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Speaker 1: ninety dollars Cardigans. I'm like, yo, this is this is

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Speaker 1: not random. This is all happening at the same time,

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Speaker 1: san it is.

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Speaker 2: It has felt like a cry for help. But I

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Speaker 2: don't judge. It's it's felt abnormally millied to me, but

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Speaker 2: I don't judge.

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Speaker 1: I listen, I and I appreciate you not judging me.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, at least I'm glad I figured it

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Speaker 1: out myself before anybody stopped me. But it's that thing

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Speaker 1: where it's like I need a shock to the system.

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Speaker 1: I needed that. I needed somebody to be like, bitch,

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Speaker 1: what the fuck are you doing? Like get your life together?

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Speaker 1: Like stop doing And it wasn't meant for me. It

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Speaker 1: was meant for everyone who was watching your stories. But

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Speaker 1: it was good to you know.

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Speaker 2: I got so many messages from friends about the positive

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Speaker 2: about that story, saying almost the same exact thing, like, yo,

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Speaker 2: I fucking needed to hear this shit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like, and honestly, I have reached this point where

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Speaker 1: I have reached a saturation point. Okay, I deleted TikTok.

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Speaker 1: I deactivated TikTok. I deactivated it.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna send you an edible arrangement congratulations today because

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Speaker 2: that's huge.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's huge.

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Speaker 2: The cornerstone of your summer.

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Speaker 1: I know it's been a TikTok summer. I just I

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Speaker 1: had to for so many reasons. It was just getting

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Speaker 1: it was getting too wild and there you know how

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Speaker 1: like when you've been it's kind of like anything that

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Speaker 1: you've done really hard that's for you know, whatever length

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Speaker 1: of time where you just just naturally get sick of

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Speaker 1: it and you swing in this other direction and you're like,

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Speaker 1: what's the opposite of what I've been doing? I want

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Speaker 1: to go back.

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Speaker 2: To my.

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Speaker 1: Snob intellect roots, Like, let's go back to being a

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Speaker 1: fucking insufferable bitch about being smart and interesting and cultured.

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Speaker 2: Can I say, from my observation, we have had our

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Speaker 2: reckless summer, each in our own different way. You had

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Speaker 2: a reckless summer. May I possibly introduce that you are

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Speaker 2: entering the age of elegance.

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Speaker 1: Finally, Jesus, I'm the last quession on this podcast to

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Speaker 1: reach the age of elegance. You and Casey were already there.

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Speaker 1: You're like, yo, looking at your watch, It's like, what

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Speaker 1: the fuck? Oh good, No, I love it.

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Speaker 2: I feel like it's all an ebb and flow and

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Speaker 2: it's all just part of the rhythms of life. And

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Speaker 2: sometimes you need things to fill a space or to

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Speaker 2: fill a block of time, and you get through it.

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Speaker 2: And that's what's important, is that you get through it

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Speaker 2: and you and you've been happy and you haven't been like,

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Speaker 2: you haven't felt depressed to me, even though these actions

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Speaker 2: might feel depressing to you. As a matter of course,

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Speaker 2: you've been happy and enjoying shit and going out and

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Speaker 2: being with people, and so I'm not worried.

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Speaker 1: About you at all.

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Speaker 2: I just feel like, yeah, there's a little bit of

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Speaker 2: a little kickback that you had to be like, all right,

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Speaker 2: I'm just going full fucking force into the id, the ego,

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Speaker 2: whatever part of you. That's just like, I'm gonna be

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Speaker 2: about all whatever makes me happy right now. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, it's true. But it's funny because I gotta tell you,

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Speaker 1: like your movie this week we'll talk about it later.

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Speaker 1: Was kind of this confirmation of sorts because I was

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Speaker 1: basically like, I mean, we'll talk about it, but you know,

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Speaker 1: your film to me is like like such a comfort

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Speaker 1: movie in a way, and I just like having it

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Speaker 1: on in the house, like yep, I just do. And

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Speaker 1: I was like watching it, listening to it doing things going, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there are people who actually like write songs and perform like,

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Speaker 1: you know, like real artistic music. That's the something that

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Speaker 1: what I've been listening to isn't artistic necessarily, or maybe

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Speaker 1: I am saying that I don't know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: All I'm saying is that like all the pop, extremely poppy,

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Speaker 1: you know, like high level music industry stuff that I've

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Speaker 1: been listening to, I'm just like, I don't know, I

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Speaker 1: need I need the escape from that is possibly like

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Speaker 1: Emmy Lou Harris, right, It's like so it's like Joni Mitchell.

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Speaker 1: It's you know, absolutely freaking the total opposite of what

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Speaker 1: I've been listening to. And I was like, I love this.

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Speaker 1: This is the world that I am from, and this

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Speaker 1: is the world that I love and I'm back and

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Speaker 1: you can love it all, but you don't need.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad that you are no longer watching or sending

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Speaker 2: to me those creepy ass videos of those K pop

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Speaker 2: guys being like, I'm in love with you, I want

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Speaker 2: to tell you my deepest thoughts from like their bedrooms.

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Speaker 2: That is some twisted shit. The way they talk to

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Speaker 2: their fans is fucking crazy and up to make you

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Speaker 2: feel connected in a weird way. That you So, I'm glad.

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Speaker 2: I feel like you've escaped from some kind of cult.

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Speaker 1: It's parasocial for sure, but I'm gonna tell you right now,

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Speaker 1: it's not just these dudes. No, a lot of people

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Speaker 1: like so, my friends Jacob and Meghan, they're a married couple,

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Speaker 1: Jacob who used to be a producer for TCM Summer Ground.

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Speaker 1: They were like, have you seen these videos of these

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Speaker 1: like I guess they're straight guys on TikTok who are

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Speaker 1: pretending to be your boyfriend. Like they do these things

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Speaker 1: where they like they are in the camera and they're

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Speaker 1: just like and they're all corny as fuck, Like they

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Speaker 1: are the corniest idiots ever. And it's stuff like they're

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Speaker 1: like looking in the camera and being like, my queen,

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Speaker 1: let me get you your latte this morning. And it's

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Speaker 1: this like weird, like it feels like this ai simulation

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Speaker 1: of a boyfriend, like a complete, like perfect boyfriend guy.

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Speaker 1: And I'm just like this is so derage, like what

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Speaker 1: are we doing listed? But Jacob and Mega were telling

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Speaker 1: me that there are there's actually accounts on Instagram that

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Speaker 1: compile the best of the best, like they're just like,

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Speaker 1: look at how fucking weird this is and stupid, and

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Speaker 1: I scream like I just I just look at these

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Speaker 1: Instagram accounts and it's just like I don't know whoever

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Speaker 1: has created them is like totally you know, totally like

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Speaker 1: making fun of these guys that I live. I just

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Speaker 1: live for it so funny. But to your point, it's

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Speaker 1: this crazy culture of like parasocial parish socialism is that

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Speaker 1: the way to put it.

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Speaker 2: Like it feels like it's beyond parasocialism and goes straight

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Speaker 2: into a weird mental health scenario because parasocial is just like,

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Speaker 2: you know, I listen to a lot of podcasts, and

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Speaker 2: I feel like I know a lot about a lot

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Speaker 2: of the podcast hosts that I personally listen to, and

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Speaker 2: so I'm kind of invested in them in some way.

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Speaker 2: This is like I'm looking directly at you in the camera,

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Speaker 2: and even though I'm talking to eight million people, I'm

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Speaker 2: telling you that you're my fucking girlfriend. Like that is

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Speaker 2: a different fucking level.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean it's kind of like the whole like

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Speaker 1: boyfriend coded thing that's going on where people say, you know,

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Speaker 1: this person is boyfriend coded or whatever, and I'm just like,

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Speaker 1: is it you like modeling a good partner? Is that

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Speaker 1: why we're doing this is that we're just kind of like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, like fantasizing about dating in real life,

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Speaker 1: and so we just go on TikTok and watch random

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Speaker 1: dudes do like random things, and it makes it feels

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Speaker 1: like you're like, I don't know, facetiming with your boyfriend

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Speaker 1: who's in the other room making you a latte. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: this is so strange.

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Speaker 2: Also, guarantee dig into the back, dig into the life

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Speaker 2: of any of those dudes the real life, like their

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Speaker 2: actual day to day life, talk to anyone they've dated.

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Speaker 2: I guarantee they're just good actors and if they were

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Speaker 2: like that to people, they would have actual partners.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I just feel like we're in this era of

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Speaker 1: just like massive projection onto other people, Like we're just

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Speaker 1: projecting so many things onto people that we don't know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is, And I don't know. Maybe it's because I'm

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Speaker 1: just such a I'm just such a die hard realist

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Speaker 1: that I'm just like, there's no fucking way these people

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Speaker 1: are this cool or this nice or this and that

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Speaker 1: I'm just like, yeah, they're sitting in front of you

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Speaker 1: talking about how they love you or whatever, and maybe

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Speaker 1: you know, there's a couple of, uh, you know, things

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Speaker 1: in the background that suggest that they're like good people

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Speaker 1: or something. But I'm like, that doesn't make a lick

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Speaker 1: of anything, Like they could be murderers. What the fuck people.

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Speaker 2: I guarantee there's gonna be an article within the next

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Speaker 2: by the end of the year that's like this guy

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Speaker 2: who's boyfriend coded on TikTok has murdered fifteen women. Yeah, guarantee.

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Speaker 2: And not only that, we're setting people up to not

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Speaker 2: actually understand what it's like to be in a real relationship,

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Speaker 2: which is not something that you can follow one simple,

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Speaker 2: single set of rules for and apply it to anyone

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Speaker 2: you're interested in. Yeah, so so fucking dangerous. I am

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Speaker 2: always a whisper away from being a full on conspiracy theorist.

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Speaker 2: But I think that's why I was like such a

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Speaker 2: great academic, because I'm like, I will dig into this

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Speaker 2: and get this information, but I'm always a whisper away.

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Speaker 2: But now I feel like I'm the living embodiment of

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Speaker 2: that Homer Simpson gift, just stepping back into the hedges.

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Speaker 2: So everything that I see online, it doesn't make me

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Speaker 2: feel like, oh, let me join in and be part

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Speaker 2: of this. I just take a step back every time,

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Speaker 2: further and further into being that lady in the woods

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Speaker 2: who doesn't have a phone anymore and you can only

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Speaker 2: communicate with by the mail or a pigeon. Like every

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Speaker 2: time I see something like this, I'm like, yeah, I'm

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Speaker 2: getting further away from God's light.

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Speaker 1: I'm out of here. Well, I think that that is

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Speaker 1: ultimately the lesson from this midlife crisis that I've had

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Speaker 1: over the past year and a half is real like,

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Speaker 1: because when it comes down to it, I guess, prior

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Speaker 1: to this, prior to being unemployed and going through like

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Speaker 1: major life changes, I use the internet for the most

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Speaker 1: part in the way that I used the Internet when

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Speaker 1: it first came out right, which is that I like

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Speaker 1: used it like I didn't dig too far right. I

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Speaker 1: just was used what was being presented to me in

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Speaker 1: the in the basic way it was being presented to me, Like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I wasn't really like going down the rabbit

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Speaker 1: holes of things. I was very suspicious of the Internet always,

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Speaker 1: because that's the thing is that you if you grew

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Speaker 1: up like us in the era that we did when

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Speaker 1: the Internet popped off, we were like what in high

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Speaker 1: school or like really.

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Speaker 2: For you, probably high school yeah, for me, like early

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Speaker 2: twenties yeah.

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Speaker 1: Or even the early twenties college. Like, to me, the

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Speaker 1: Internet was fascinating, but it was also terrifying because I

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Speaker 1: was always told like, oh, if you like go and

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Speaker 1: meet up with someone, they're going to you know, put

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Speaker 1: you in a truck, can throw you in the river

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Speaker 1: with cement boots. Like I never I know, like the

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Speaker 1: whole concept of like using the Internet for personal stuff

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Speaker 1: was always like really freaking to me. And so I

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Speaker 1: guess because I was unemployed, you know, just the simple

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Speaker 1: act of getting on TikTok open up this entire fucking

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Speaker 1: universe of like this weird internet things, like weird social

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Speaker 1: media things that I just never knew about, like the terminology,

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Speaker 1: the way that people are making videos, the parasocialness, the

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Speaker 1: everything like that is so fascinating to me. But that's

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Speaker 1: the lesson is that I'm just sort of like it was.

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Speaker 1: There have been some dark corners that I've unturned that

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm also Homer simpsoning. I'm like, I'm going back.

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Speaker 2: You take a left turn in the dark web, and

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Speaker 2: you're like, no, not supposed to be here.

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Speaker 1: Like fandom, Like the fandom, I gotta tell you, the

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Speaker 1: fandom these days is dark.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it feels dark to me.

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Speaker 1: And it's not just music, it's like everything. Yeah, Like

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Speaker 1: the fandom for everything is a get real cuckoo.

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Speaker 2: It's unquestioning. That's what I don't get. Like, it is

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Speaker 2: an unquestioning fandom across the board. Like if you love

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Speaker 2: this thing, you are all in. You are defending them,

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Speaker 2: You're yelling at people about it. It's not just I'm

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Speaker 2: enjoying it. I'm glad I have contact. It's I will

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Speaker 2: make this my mission as if I'm marching into a

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Speaker 2: war because I like this thing. It's all consuming. It's

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Speaker 2: very strange to me.

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Speaker 1: I know. It's like sometimes I would go into the

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Speaker 1: comments of some of these like you know, because I'll

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Speaker 1: be on TikTok looking at like, you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: know fan edits of fans or movies or whomever. Actors

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Speaker 1: a lot of when Man, when Dune came out, the

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Speaker 1: Timothy chalime and Zendiah stuff was a peak peak.

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Speaker 2: The only Timidy challame meme that I need to see

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Speaker 2: is when somebody boats at that picture of like an

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Speaker 2: old medieval shoe and said, for some reason, this reminds

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Speaker 2: me of Timothy Jallum and I'm like, that's it. That's

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Speaker 2: the hilt for me. I don't need to see anything

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Speaker 2: ever again. It makes me laugh to this fucking day. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, people go wild for that shit, and it's

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Speaker 2: tied into the marketing now because companies know and expect

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Speaker 2: that that's going to happen. So it's a really weird

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Speaker 2: relationship between you know, the commodification of a product and

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Speaker 2: the commodification of individuals into your very natural adoration for

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Speaker 2: someone is very very convoluted.

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Speaker 1: Well, and it feels like so the comments, so I

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Speaker 1: would this happens especially in K pop, I gotta say,

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Speaker 1: where people feel like it's their duty to promote the

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Speaker 1: work like in this very it almost feels like somebody's

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Speaker 1: full time job. Like you'll be reading comments and being like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is cute, but then somebody be like, Okay, don't

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Speaker 1: forget to like stream this at midnight because we're trying

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Speaker 1: to get this to like the number one spot or whatever.

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Speaker 1: And I was just like, wow, dude, like that is

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Speaker 1: that is work? I mean, that's work for somebody who's

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Speaker 1: not getting paid obviously.

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Speaker 2: You know, no, they've they've commodified street teams. Remember street

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Speaker 2: teams back in the day.

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Speaker 1: I was on a fucking street team yo Arista Records,

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Speaker 1: late nineties, baby, who the fuck you want to know

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Speaker 1: why everybody loved Didoh you're looking at her right here,

359
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,359
Speaker 1: and I'm kidding, but really I will. I was a

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Speaker 1: street team person back in the in the late nineties.

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Speaker 1: I was a college rep. I went around town putting

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Speaker 1: up fucking posters for whoever. I think the bands that

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Speaker 1: were around what I was on the street team were

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Speaker 1: spiritualized who I love Love Love spiritualized. And let me

365
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Speaker 1: tell you right now, all of those promos and shit

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Speaker 1: that they put out in that era, the ladies and

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Speaker 1: gentlemen were floating in space era. I was like, yoink

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Speaker 1: keeping all this absolutely but then I also had to

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Speaker 1: do that the new Crash Test Dummies album that came

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Speaker 1: out in that era, which was so weird, but honestly

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Speaker 1: didoh that was the big one was the was Dino

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Speaker 1: had just came out. She she did that collab with

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Speaker 1: Eminem because that was her fucking song, that song that

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Speaker 1: he ended up using for Stan Yep. Ironically enough, that

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Speaker 1: was her jam and I mean I hung out with her,

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Speaker 1: I interviewed her. She's so sweet. But that was the thing,

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Speaker 1: was that, like that I was getting paid for that, right,

378
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Speaker 1: Like at least that was getting free records, Like some

379
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,439
Speaker 1: of this stuff is free labor. And it's really because

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Speaker 1: they it feels like the fans have steaks and maybe

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Speaker 1: they feel like they have stakes because some dude in

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Speaker 1: a band is looking in their fucking iPhone being like

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Speaker 1: I love you.

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Speaker 2: It's emotional manipulation, at bare minimum, emotional manipulation because of

385
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 2: course that's why they feel like, yeah, I will do

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Speaker 2: anything for you. I will literally do including unpaid labor.

387
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Speaker 2: I will do that for you.

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Speaker 1: Well, and like this, I have gone back and forth

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Speaker 1: about this because listen, we're a couple of old school,

390
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:32,920
Speaker 1: you know, gen X minded people, right, we were incredibly

391
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Speaker 1: weary of this type of stuff for a very long time.

392
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Speaker 1: We obviously have you. You obviously have a lot of

393
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Speaker 1: views on capitalism, as do I, but.

394
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Speaker 2: Which I didn't even know, didn't even know about myself.

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Speaker 1: Listen, I love it. I stand you for being my

396
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Speaker 1: Marxist queen. But it's like, I there's a moment where

397
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Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, is this just me being my age?

398
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 1: Am I not understanding that maybe people get some joy

399
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 1: out of the stakes, or maybe they want to live

400
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,480
Speaker 1: in a fantasy world where they believe that they like date,

401
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 1: you know, whomever celebrity is or something. But I just

402
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,119
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like it doesn't feel one hundred percent

403
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,920
Speaker 1: right to me. Yeah, And this is again like all

404
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,679
Speaker 1: of this was discovered in my midlife crisis. As I

405
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 1: peruse TikTok, I would have never known any of this

406
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 1: if I hadn't gone done that.

407
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Speaker 2: There were great benefits, great benefits to this midlife crisis.

408
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:39,360
Speaker 1: But it's true.

409
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Speaker 2: I mean I used to and this is the other

410
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 2: I agree with you completely because I never I never

411
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Speaker 2: want to be a person who and I'm not a

412
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Speaker 2: person who just objectively is against fandom in general.

413
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Speaker 1: I don't.

414
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 2: I think that it's very gender coded. It's usually things

415
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 2: that that young women and teenage girls like that people

416
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 2: are so upset about. And I used to I mean,

417
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 2: I was an editor for Rookie magazine, and I feel like,

418
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 2: you know, I'm never doing I'm interested in, and I

419
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 2: think there's value in what young women and girls are

420
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,000
Speaker 2: interests are into. But I think the fandom is not

421
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,680
Speaker 2: the problem. To me. It's the way that the bands

422
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 2: and the marketing and everything around it is commodifying their fandom. Yes,

423
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 2: again like manipulating them and manipulating something that feels very

424
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Speaker 2: pure and innocent and good because it's it is a

425
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 2: developmental thing. But it's also a happiness that you can

426
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Speaker 2: give yourself to be a fan of something. I mean,

427
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 2: I just held up my fucking doctor Who mug that

428
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:35,199
Speaker 2: I drink out of every day, and it makes me

429
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:36,960
Speaker 2: happy every single day to see a little dollc on

430
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Speaker 2: a mug. I'm not completely averse to capitalists things or

431
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 2: being a fan of things. I just feel like there's

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Speaker 2: a dangerous line when it becomes some kind of mental

433
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,120
Speaker 2: or emotional manipulation, and that to me is what I'm

434
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 2: what I feel like we're both commenting on here, is that,

435
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 2: like the fandom isn't the problem, it's that they're being

436
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 2: taken People are being taken advantage of to a great

437
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 2: degree because they like something, which never used to be

438
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:02,400
Speaker 2: the case before.

439
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was always there was a separation, and I

440
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 1: think we're gonna talk a little bit about that when

441
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 1: we're talking about my movie. I think this week, because

442
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: I have a lot of thoughts on this, but this feeling,

443
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,320
Speaker 1: this is I think exactly what I was feeling was

444
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: that I was like, especially when it comes to the

445
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: K pop stuff, right, I was like, a lot of

446
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 1: these people are young women, right, they're at an age

447
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: that we were at when we were like teenagers where

448
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:39,679
Speaker 1: we fantasized about boyfriends and I mean we liked boy bands.

449
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: We were interested in kind of scenario modeling what it

450
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: would be like to be in relationships, right, and we

451
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:51,159
Speaker 1: would do that through celebrity crushes and you know, I

452
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 1: don't know, like putting posters on your walls and this

453
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. Right, But it was because they never

454
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: it was a one way street the most part. Like

455
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,199
Speaker 1: we were just like we were doing the projecting, but

456
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: it didn't feel like we were going to get it back,

457
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 1: and there was kind of a safety in that. This is,

458
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,640
Speaker 1: I think is what exactly your point is is that

459
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 1: it does feel a little dangerous when that celebrity is

460
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: coming back and saying like, oh, I wouldn't exist without you,

461
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 1: which I guess is like somewhat true, like theoretically true,

462
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 1: but it's also like, I don't know, I think it

463
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: puts like false notions in people's heads and it really

464
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 1: fucks with people, especially young women who, yes, I don't know,

465
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: like want love and they want connection and it just

466
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: feels very dangerous And I don't know, I just agree

467
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 1: with you one hundred pop.

468
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is. So I'm glad that you've extricated

469
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 2: yourself from it, because again, when I see stuff like that,

470
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 2: it's not that I don't that I don't think people

471
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 2: should be participating in it. I just I wish there

472
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 2: were more health and mental health regulations or resources for

473
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 2: people to read to center themselves, because that's all I'm

474
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 2: really doing. Whenever I talk about capitalism or like kind

475
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 2: of the way that I live, it's really just me

476
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 2: constantly recentering myself and what's important to me. So what's

477
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 2: important to me is not things like you know, my

478
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 2: house is half empty, Like I'm not just buying shit

479
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 2: to fill up space or fill up time, because that

480
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 2: is a mark to me of my own depression or

481
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 2: my own you know, unwillingness to kind.

482
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 1: Of face reality.

483
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 2: And I think in order to keep myself healthy, I

484
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,120
Speaker 2: have to be able to face reality. And I've developed

485
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 2: the tools that allow me to do that, and so

486
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 2: I just kind of constantly go back to those tools

487
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 2: to be like, all right, check in with yourself, Like

488
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 2: you're not a person who enjoys buying a ton of things,

489
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 2: and you don't have to, Like it's just really just

490
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 2: reinforcing your own guidelines for life. And again it doesn't

491
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 2: mean you can't participate in the other stuff. But I'm like,

492
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 2: all right, yeah, like I know who I am, and

493
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 2: so I'm not as deeply affected by these traps that

494
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:01,400
Speaker 2: are literally set for people to fall into.

495
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 1: Now, Yeah, it's true. Yeah, I mean, and to your point,

496
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: I mean, I am glad that I'm an older person

497
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: because I do I do have enough therapy and enough

498
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:19,400
Speaker 1: life experience, I think to where I can see this stuff.

499
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I'm not perfect, obviously succumb to

500
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 1: capitalism every fucking day of my life, right, But I

501
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 1: also scope out a lot and kind of a check

502
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: myself and recognize that things are kind of weird. Yeah,

503
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: you know, And I think that that's a skill that

504
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 1: I've developed over time. I mean, obviously, if I was

505
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: fourteen years old and I was out here, like, you know,

506
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: buying punching people for Stanley mugs and you know, feeling

507
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: like my favorite band's in love with me, it would

508
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: be a different story. But I feel like, yeah, over time,

509
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 1: I kind of developed, you know, like a little bit

510
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: of media literacy or some kind of culture literacy, and

511
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 1: I think that's important for people to recognize. I don't know,

512
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 1: I mean, it's It's all I'm saying to this entire

513
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 1: conversation is that I appreciate you pulling me out of

514
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: the the fucking deep well of the past year and

515
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: a half in this one thing that you didn't even

516
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: you probably didn't even realize you were Probably I'm just

517
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: fucking popping off, and I'm like, Yo, this is profound

518
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: am I doing.

519
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 2: And I'm glad to have been part of that because

520
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 2: I love you and I want you to be healthy

521
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 2: and happy course always always, but Also, I don't judge

522
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 2: someone in the middle of a fucking meltdown.

523
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:46,560
Speaker 1: It's fine. We've all been there.

524
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 2: I've on a goddamn house in the middle of my

525
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 2: goddamn meltdown. I can't judge, and I won't and I won't,

526
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 2: but I definitely feel like it. And it starts from

527
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 2: this video that I posted of this this this very

528
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 2: smart woman who was talking about how all of those

529
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 2: those videos that you see of people organizing their refrigerators

530
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 2: and how this over consumption has been remodeled as self care.

531
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 2: And what you're actually doing is you're buying too much food,

532
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 2: you're putting it in brand new plastic containers that you're buying,

533
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 2: and you're calling it self care. And it's just sick.

534
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 2: It's sick. And it's one thing to want to be

535
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 2: able to look in your fridge and see what you got.

536
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 2: It's another thing to be like I have to be

537
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 2: regimented and rigid and buy all of this shit in

538
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 2: order to just get through a day and eat and

539
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 2: give my kids some snacks. So that kicked off this

540
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 2: just this thought process for me. You know what I'm

541
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 2: passionate about, and I think I am pretty passionate about

542
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 2: not being an over consumptive person. So that kicked off

543
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 2: the whole conversation. And I had another video that I

544
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 2: found from this very funny comedian named Maria Dakotis, who

545
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 2: posted a great video about how how much makeup people

546
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 2: buy and how they just like you know, people buying

547
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 2: makeup and feeling that they can't leave their house unless

548
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 2: they buy hundreds of dollars worth of products, and how

549
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:07,600
Speaker 2: a lot of it is poisonous, a lot of it

550
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 2: is tied now to cancer research, a lot of it

551
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,479
Speaker 2: is tied to things that affect your actual health, and

552
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 2: it just got me thinking that, like everyone's fine as is,

553
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 2: we've moved far away from this notion that just being

554
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 2: a person and a body is okay. You don't have

555
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 2: to glitter it up to live, and the things that.

556
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 1: Matter are not. Like you can enjoy the glitter, but

557
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: it's not what.

558
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 2: Actually matters in terms of who you are as a

559
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 2: person and how you spend the time of the time

560
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 2: and the days in your life. So I just kind

561
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 2: of popped off for like two or three slides, And

562
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 2: I'm glad that was useful to you, because I felt

563
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 2: whenever I do that. I feel like I'm going to

564
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 2: lose a thousand followers a minute because people don't want

565
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 2: to hear it. They're like, let me be in my

566
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 2: bubble where I'm buying my shit and doing my thing,

567
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 2: and I'm like, you can, you can. I'm just saying

568
00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 2: there's another way. Yeah, well, I'll tell you.

569
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: Thanks to you, I'm no longer watching Love of Ireland

570
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: and I'm now reading Dos Capitol and listening to like

571
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: fucking Gang of Four or something. I've swung back in

572
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: the other direction.

573
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 2: Babe, I fucking love it. I'm gonna send you a

574
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 2: care package like you wouldn't believe. It's just gonna be.

575
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: All books and tea candles.

576
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:28,719
Speaker 2: Welcome back, baby, welcome back. Well, speaking of welcome back,

577
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 2: should we get into our films this week?

578
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I cannot wait. This is so fucking fun.

579
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: I cannot wait to talk about these.

580
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 2: This is a great double and I watched it as

581
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 2: a true double feature. Yeah, me too, had a great

582
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 2: fucking night. And our theme is pretty basic this week.

583
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 2: I don't know if you want to tell them what

584
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 2: our what our theme is? It kept it simple.

585
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: I was like, what's up with is this? I didn't

586
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: come up with this. This seems like a name I

587
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 1: would come up with, because it's not a name.

588
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 2: I think we both, I think we're both were just like,

589
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 2: let's let the work speak for itself.

590
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 1: Sure, our theme is quite obviously classic music docs.

591
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 2: That's right, we went back to our favorite music documentaries.

592
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 2: I feel like we're both having a very music field

593
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 2: summer as well. We are.

594
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 1: We are, but these.

595
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 2: Were the first. I don't think either one of us

596
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 2: hesitated when we were coming up with the films for this.

597
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 2: We just said, you know what, classic movie, classic music docs.

598
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 2: I'm doing this, you're doing and you were like, I'm

599
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 2: doing this, yeah, Like no hesitation.

600
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: No hesitation. And then I had seen them both before

601
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: and I just wanted to rewatch them again. I mean, honestly,

602
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: like so fun. Yeah, I love music documentaries. I mean,

603
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: I'm sure you do too, right, Yeah, me too? They

604
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: to me, I got It's like I have watched like

605
00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: so many newer ones recently. Like I think I've talked

606
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: about this. I saw the Taylor Swift movie when it

607
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 1: came out with my friend who really wanted me to go,

608
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: and I went. Didn't realize it was three fucking hours

609
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 1: but I saw it in the movie Kidnapping.

610
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 2: PS. That is a kidnapping.

611
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: Oh, I think it definitely constitutes a fucking napping. I

612
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 1: was like, Yo, what are we doing here? Like, I

613
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 1: was like, it's been two hours and fifteen minutes.

614
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 2: Like I was also kidnapped when I went to go

615
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 2: see The Irishman, Oh, without realizing it was over and

616
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 2: it was in La So we had to drive an

617
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 2: hour to get there, sit for a three hour plus movie,

618
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 2: and then drive an hour back. I'm like, Yo, you

619
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 2: just kidnapped me for half a day.

620
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: Do you think let me ask your thoughts on this

621
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: a little bit of a diversion if you would allow it. So,

622
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: you do you think there should be an intermission if

623
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 1: a movie's three hours long?

624
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 2: A so fucking lutely give me a chance to pee,

625
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 2: a stack up on snacks, to wake myself up a

626
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,280
Speaker 2: little bit, to actually like be able to pay attention

627
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 2: again to what you're saying. There's an intermission, and look,

628
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,399
Speaker 2: there there are intermissions in theater for a fucking reason.

629
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 2: It's not just because of the performers that need a

630
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 2: little bit of a break or rest. The audience also

631
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 2: needs that.

632
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's to me. It's a very old school technique.

633
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,280
Speaker 1: I mean there's an intermission in Gone with the Wind.

634
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 1: I mean there's like a prologue. I mean it's kind

635
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: of like, yeah, it's an old theater technique, but also

636
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,760
Speaker 1: like used to happen in older movies that were long. Uh,

637
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: And it feels like sometimes when they come back, like

638
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, I think I remember Tarantino, one of

639
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:37,280
Speaker 1: the Tarantino movies that came out semi recently had an intermission. Maybe,

640
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: you know, like I can see people who make like

641
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,439
Speaker 1: long movies like Christopher Nolan and PTA or something having

642
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 1: an intermission, but for most part that shit's goned by

643
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:46,759
Speaker 1: the wayside, and I'm like, no, no, no, y'all should

644
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: bring it back because y'all were making these really long movies.

645
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 2: Again, if you have the absolute nerve to make a

646
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 2: movie over two hours, you better understand that one the

647
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 2: only people sitting in that theater are already en up.

648
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 2: Your audience for a two hour plus movie, by and large,

649
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 2: unless it's like a Lord of the Ring style like

650
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 2: Major Trilogy moment. We are older people for the most part. Also,

651
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 2: even if we're not, even if your audience is not

652
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 2: of a specific age. Mentally build in a break for everybody. Yeah, like,

653
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 2: just give us the chance to relax, because I hit

654
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:29,919
Speaker 2: sometimes that one and a half hour, two hour mark

655
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 2: and I start to get anxious, like I got a

656
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 2: pee and I don't want to miss anything, and it's

657
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 2: almost the end, and it's relieve the anxiety a little bit.

658
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 2: You can build it into your storytelling.

659
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you want to go all capitalists like

660
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 1: we just talked about, you can promote snacks during it,

661
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,319
Speaker 1: Like you can send people back to buy more shit. Like,

662
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 1: there's ways to do it.

663
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 2: Move the industry, sell merch, do whatever you fucking Treat

664
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:55,839
Speaker 2: it like a concert, do whatever you fucking want.

665
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: But do a sing along with the bouncing ball that

666
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 1: every sing along. Yeah, bring it back. If you're doing

667
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 1: a three hour movie, bring it back. But yeah, that

668
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift movie was like three hours long. I saw

669
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: the Beyonce one obviously, you know, just so I've seen

670
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: like new music docs lightly, man, I get it, like

671
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: people love the people are fans, they want to see

672
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:22,919
Speaker 1: fan fan things. But nothing beats an old school music doc. Man.

673
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 2: It was the most raw experience that you could have

674
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 2: for a long time, and it was really a peak

675
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,320
Speaker 2: behind a curtain that nobody got to see about something

676
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 2: that was deeply effective to most people's lives. And it

677
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 2: was also especially in terms of my film, it was

678
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 2: an event to kind of like signify something. A lot

679
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:51,879
Speaker 2: of classic music docks are built around either explaining a

680
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 2: transition point for a band or celebrating and ending or

681
00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 2: celebrating something. So it just felt like a little bit

682
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 2: more And in terms of your doc, I feel like

683
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 2: it was. It's classic for so many reasons generationally, but

684
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 2: also was one of the more for me anyway, the

685
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 2: first music doc that seemed like it was yes, a

686
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 2: peek behind the camera, yes very real, but also very produced. Yes,

687
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 2: very produced. And so it was kind of a very

688
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 2: in that when your doc was released, it blew minds,

689
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 2: like people really I remember people talking about it on

690
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:30,720
Speaker 2: the news.

691
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: Oh I know, and like and I kept thinking about

692
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: this too. I mean, this is I think possibly it's

693
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 1: your movie. In mind, it's just the general pre internet

694
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: music documentary because you know, now with social media you

695
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: see stars every day, like stars are like making posts

696
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: million times a day. I think because there was a

697
00:38:55,320 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 1: lack of that constant access back then, nobody was really

698
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 1: having this like rolling digital footprint in the way that

699
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 1: they do now that this was the only way you've

700
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: got to see stars being themselves is in stuff like

701
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:16,359
Speaker 1: that exactly, and it possibly allowed people to be more

702
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 1: uninhibited because they didn't think, oh, well, this is gonna

703
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 1: get meaned a hundred times. This is like, yeah, if

704
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: people want to figure out, you know, what it's like

705
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: to be on the road, and I get to express

706
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: to you that I love women, the road is all

707
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: about like hooking up with women. I could say it

708
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: in the comfort almost of a documentary that I know

709
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:43,400
Speaker 1: is going to be be released maybe theatrically and maybe

710
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: seen you know, different screenings, but they didn't have a

711
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: concept of it being this like everlasting, memeable event. So

712
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 1: it feels more raw in that way.

713
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 2: Because this is even keeping in mind that even you know,

714
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 2: kind of back in the day that we're discussing, even

715
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 2: articles about musicians were more reverent towards the musicians, and

716
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 2: they weren't looking to expose anything horrible or demeaning or

717
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 2: you know, there was no kind of gotcha journalism by

718
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 2: and large about most musicians. So I think that people,

719
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 2: you know, even when you read about your favorite musician

720
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 2: or when you read about music that you were interested in.

721
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 2: It was still giving you a very boilerplate, kind of

722
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 2: basic approach to these interviews, and nobody seemed to be

723
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,280
Speaker 2: looking for the like cause again, most of the journalists

724
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 2: were also fans of the music that they were talking about,

725
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,080
Speaker 2: so they weren't looking for reasons to kind of denigrate people.

726
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:43,320
Speaker 2: And so it just had a different flavor to it

727
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 2: where people like you said, I could think, felt like

728
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 2: they could be more raw and real in these moments

729
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 2: because it was so separate from the way that they'd

730
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 2: been that they were usually discussed. So this was kind

731
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 2: of also a chance for the band to show or

732
00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 2: you know, like the musicians to show what they were about.

733
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there was no obviously, there was no instant feedback, right.

734
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:07,760
Speaker 1: It was the feeling of like, Okay, maybe if somebody

735
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: hated the Madonna documentary, they might write a letter to

736
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 1: their local paper about it or something like that. But

737
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:15,400
Speaker 1: it was like, for the most part, it wasn't like,

738
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 1: I mean, you could like go down on a bottle

739
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:24,839
Speaker 1: and consequence free I suppose, I mean, for the most part,

740
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 1: and maybe the vaticid would have something to say about it,

741
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 1: but ultimately it's like none of us were like weighing

742
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 1: in on it fucking night and day on Twitter, you know.

743
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 2: So oh, I absolutely love it. Well, let's get into

744
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 2: I'm first this week. Yes, Yes, and I truly can't wait.

745
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 2: My film was released in nineteen seventy eight. It was

746
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 2: directed by Martin Scorsese. My movie is The Last Waltz.

747
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 2: We gave a final concert, the band's final concert. We

748
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 2: call it the Last Loss. So one sentence synopsis. After

749
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 2: sixteen years together, the band gives their final concert on

750
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 2: Thanksgiving Day in nineteen seventy six. So what There were

751
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 2: so many hilarious facts about the filming, like what people

752
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 2: revealed after, like what was actually happening. One thing that

753
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 2: I did not realize until I read about this on

754
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,399
Speaker 2: an article on the CBC because this is a Canadian band,

755
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 2: which we'll get into, is that they actually had a

756
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,720
Speaker 2: Thanksgiving feast for all five thousand people who attended the concert.

757
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 2: WHOA and at the time. At the time, a typical

758
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 2: concert ticket was between four and seven dollars, and this

759
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 2: one was twenty five dollars for the tickets, but it

760
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:50,359
Speaker 2: included a fucking Thanksgiving meal that.

761
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 1: Is pennies compared to what they charge now, and you

762
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: don't get food at all.

763
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 2: Imagine being able to see everyone in this movie typically

764
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 2: for like dollars would never even happen for one band nowadays.

765
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely not. That's cute though.

766
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,280
Speaker 2: Thanksgiving dinner, oh my right, because it was on Thanksgiving.

767
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 2: It was November twenty fifth of nineteen seventy six, so

768
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 2: we also so this is a film about the band who,

769
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 2: again Canadian guys who do a lot of Americana kind

770
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 2: of music, were incredibly influential to a ton of your

771
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 2: favorite musicians even to this day and definitely in their time.

772
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 2: And they have this very they had a very interesting

773
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 2: rise to fame and that they just kind of made

774
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,760
Speaker 2: their way by playing good music and being good people

775
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 2: to be around. The band consists of Robbie Robertson, Levon

776
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 2: helm Rick Danko, Richard Manuel, and Garth Hudson. And one

777
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 2: of the key things to know about the band, and

778
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 2: they do get into in the movie how they gave

779
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 2: themselves their name, but they were the backing band for

780
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:03,439
Speaker 2: Bob Dylan when he went electric, right, so already rock

781
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 2: history is made definitely, all right, So this movie was

782
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:10,839
Speaker 2: was directed by Martin Scorsese. There are scenes and when

783
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 2: you first open the film, there are scenes of the city.

784
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 2: It's you know, it takes place in San Francisco, one

785
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 2: of Bill Graham's theaters, and I think it was one

786
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 2: of the first places that they played as the band.

787
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 2: They had a few different names prior to that. And

788
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 2: it just kind of starts in this very innocent way

789
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 2: with Robbie Robertson talking to Martin Scorsese and he just

790
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 2: he catches a fly in mid air in his hand

791
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:35,879
Speaker 2: during the interview, like it's that kind of low key,

792
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 2: and then he just keeps talking.

793
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 1: It's really low key.

794
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 2: It's so wildly low key. And they so this band, like,

795
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 2: you know, the band knew that they were ending, you know,

796
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 2: they kind of made a decision to stop touring and stop,

797
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 2: you know, playing together, and they wanted it to be

798
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 2: more than They wanted their last show to be more

799
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,280
Speaker 2: than a concert. They wanted it to be a celebration.

800
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 2: So there are lots of interstitial interviews with the band,

801
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 2: a lot of people smoke and pot, telling stories, reminiscing.

802
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 2: It just felt very of like, kind of crunchy and

803
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 2: of the time to kind of have this behind the

804
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 2: scenes look, and the reason I love it is that

805
00:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 2: it's basically a group of musicians who are so revered

806
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 2: by the absolute best in the business, which is why

807
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 2: you should watch it even if you don't like this

808
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 2: kind of music. They I cannot express how hugely influential

809
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:28,320
Speaker 2: they were and are as just great musicians. Every single

810
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 2: person in the band sings in addition to playing their instruments,

811
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 2: so there's no singular front man, even though Robbie Robertson

812
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 2: got a lot of shine because he wrote he was

813
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:42,320
Speaker 2: a songwriter. There's everyone plays a part and all the

814
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 2: different voices give a different flavor to each song, so

815
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 2: it's very cohesive. But it's also really emotionally different to

816
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 2: hear everybody sing their songs and there's no overproduction in

817
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 2: this doc. It's just some sweaty friends in various states

818
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 2: of sobriety having a good time and smiling at each

819
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 2: other and celebrating with song.

820
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 1: Love. Those seventies teeth as you know, a lot of

821
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:07,440
Speaker 1: seven teeth.

822
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, og teeth are incredible, And it's like again, it's

823
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 2: just it's a good feeling movie. I don't know if

824
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 2: you felt that this time, but the first time I

825
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 2: saw it. My aunt head recommended it at some point,

826
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 2: but the first time I actually saw it was with

827
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 2: my neighbor Carol growing up, who no longer is with us.

828
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 2: She was a beautiful and lovely woman, absolute hippie, introduced

829
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 2: me to so many wonderful things that are still part

830
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:37,200
Speaker 2: of my life. And as longtime listeners of the show. No,

831
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 2: I had a huge crush on her oldest son and

832
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 2: played jazz out of my window to him.

833
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: Oh, it's this is the boy.

834
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:46,640
Speaker 2: Okay, this is the boy. So I would to go

835
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:48,879
Speaker 2: over and hang out with his mom.

836
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I loved.

837
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 2: And be like secretly in love with her child. But

838
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 2: she introduced me to like Caravaggio and like all these

839
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 2: different artists and just and this movie. And I loved

840
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 2: it from the minute I saw it. It just felt like

841
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 2: something like some songs I might have heard on the radio,

842
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:08,840
Speaker 2: but I never put faces with names back then, and

843
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 2: it was just a whole different world, even in the

844
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 2: you know, the nineties, when I saw this film, which

845
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 2: is a very different experience. So this movie is wild

846
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 2: when you start to hear about some of the behind

847
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 2: the scenes happenings. But just to give you an idea

848
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 2: of why this concert is so special. It's not just

849
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:30,439
Speaker 2: the band. The band brings on several musicians to help

850
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:37,240
Speaker 2: them and their run. So we're talking Eric Clapton, Neil Diamond,

851
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:43,720
Speaker 2: Bob Dylan, Jody Mitchell, Neil Young, Emil Lou Harris, Ringo Starr,

852
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 2: Paul Butterfield, doctor John Van Morrison, Ronnie Hawkins, the Staples,

853
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 2: Muddy Waters, and Ron Wood, just a litany of people

854
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 2: coming out. I think that I, weirdly have I have

855
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:02,319
Speaker 2: a very knee jerk I've always had a very knee

856
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 2: jerk reaction to Eric Clapton. I just feel like he's

857
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 2: a prick, and it has been confirmed that he's totally

858
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 2: a prick. I've been doing some research on the people

859
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 2: who were in this film, and he like like racist

860
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 2: epithets and just a horrible guy to work with and

861
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 2: just kind of like, so, if all of you know

862
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 2: of Eric Clapton, his tears in Heaven, do your research.

863
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 2: He just seems like a horrible dude. And even in

864
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:27,840
Speaker 2: this concert was kind of my least favorite part of

865
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:31,319
Speaker 2: the show. But all these friends come on and they

866
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,439
Speaker 2: bring their own flavor and it's such a cohesive show.

867
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:38,160
Speaker 2: It's like they brought Muddy Waters up to sing Manish

868
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 2: Boy and Muddy Waters, most musicians will will tell you,

869
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:46,240
Speaker 2: is like a highly Muddy Waters created rock and roll essentially,

870
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 2: even though he was a blues musician, he was so

871
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 2: influential to so many rock musicians that he essentially had

872
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 2: a part in creating rock and roll.

873
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:54,279
Speaker 1: And he died a.

874
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 2: Few years after this this film this was filmed, So

875
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 2: it's also a very important his historical factor that we

876
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 2: look at now that a lot of the people in

877
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,799
Speaker 2: this movie are now gone. Yeah, it's sad, So I

878
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:11,080
Speaker 2: just kind of love that. It's just I don't know,

879
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 2: it's just a really beautiful tribute to not just this band,

880
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,880
Speaker 2: not just this time, but to music in general and

881
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,920
Speaker 2: kind of seeing musicians having fun, which is something I

882
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:23,600
Speaker 2: also think we don't see enough of nowadays because music

883
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 2: is such a business. I like seeing musicians having a

884
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 2: good ass fucking time.

885
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and seeing them be like kind of like friendly

886
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 1: with each other, you know what I mean. Like everybody

887
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 1: loves Joni Mitchell, right, everybody loves Joni Mitchell back then

888
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 1: and now like when you read about you know, I

889
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:47,799
Speaker 1: don't know, like the La Canyon scene or whatever. I mean,

890
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,919
Speaker 1: she's just such a huge part of that. And it's

891
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 1: like when you see her come on stage and she

892
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:55,439
Speaker 1: like kisses Robbie Robertson, You're just like, oh, say, these

893
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 1: are all this is all like a friendly This is

894
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 1: like musicians who know other musicians and they collaborate together,

895
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 1: and there's like this really sweet feeling about it, you know.

896
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 2: Completely, And she comes out with like this long skirt

897
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 2: and this kind of leotard and she has a pack

898
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 2: of cigarettes tucked in her belt.

899
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 1: Yes, my god, Ah, it's so cute.

900
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 2: She's so cute. I mean again, unfortunately she's suffered from

901
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:24,320
Speaker 2: some strokes later in life that undoubtedly we're due to

902
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 2: some of the cigarettes.

903
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: But it was kind of and it's fun.

904
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 2: I also just love the way that people come on stage.

905
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 2: So for example, we are out the gate, so the

906
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 2: band starts with two of their songs. They do Cripple

907
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:42,320
Speaker 2: Creek and the Shape I'm In, And then Ronnie Hawkins

908
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 2: comes out and Ronnie Hawkins is already three sheets to

909
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:48,360
Speaker 2: the fucking wind doing hoo do you Love and just

910
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 2: wearing this weird old little hat and just being himself

911
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:53,479
Speaker 2: and just singing and having a great time. He comes

912
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 2: out and like grabs the beer from the top of

913
00:50:56,040 --> 00:51:00,239
Speaker 2: the piano of from the top of Garthoughtson's pian I know,

914
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 2: and just like he's just in it. He's having a

915
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 2: great time. And then there are a couple more songs

916
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:07,120
Speaker 2: by the band you know they do it makes no difference.

917
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 2: They actually bring out poets. They brought out Michael McClure

918
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 2: to do a poem in the beginning, and then halfway

919
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:14,640
Speaker 2: through they bring out Lawrence for Lyngetti to do a poem.

920
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 2: So they really are making this this masterful film about

921
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 2: their scene. Like you said, like this is about their

922
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 2: lives in that moment, and included so many different kinds

923
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,839
Speaker 2: of artists. And then Doctor John comes out and does

924
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 2: such a night. And if you don't know who Doctor

925
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:31,839
Speaker 2: John is, well you probably do because they if you've

926
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 2: ever watched the Muppets, Doctor Teeth is based on Doctor John.

927
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:36,320
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's right.

928
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 2: But he's this New Orleans fucking pianist who is incredible.

929
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:46,879
Speaker 2: I love doctor so much, and again just comes out

930
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 2: and has a great ass time. Then we see Neil

931
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 2: Young come out and do Helpless and Neil Young has

932
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:58,120
Speaker 2: a fucking coke booger in his nose the entire time.

933
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 2: Ah ah, there's just a cocaine nugget in his nose

934
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 2: the entire time. He is singing this gorgeous little.

935
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:11,719
Speaker 1: Song that is real, dude.

936
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 2: Then they do an another uh song by just the

937
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 2: band stage fright, and then the Staples come out, who

938
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 2: you might know is the Staples sisters, but like the

939
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:25,680
Speaker 2: whole family comes out and they have I think that

940
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 2: the way that Scorsese kind of filmed it is also

941
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 2: interesting because there are a few people the Staples, Emilu Harris,

942
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:33,760
Speaker 2: there are a couple of people who were filmed separately.

943
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 2: They weren't on stage, but you could tell that it

944
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:38,840
Speaker 2: was important to the band that these people be involved.

945
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 2: So they filmed it on like this sound stage, and

946
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:45,480
Speaker 2: the Staples come out, and again you see this this incredible,

947
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 2: incredible mix of how these kind of gospel style singers

948
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:54,799
Speaker 2: also fit very well and are influenced, influential to the

949
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 2: development of rock music. So they're just kind of like

950
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 2: just this beautiful harmonies, and I just I love that

951
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:03,200
Speaker 2: scene so much. Then they do the night they Drove

952
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:05,439
Speaker 2: All Dixie Down, which is one of my favorites, even

953
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:08,239
Speaker 2: though Dixie anything, I'm usually like fuck that, but I

954
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:10,880
Speaker 2: just really love this song. I don't know why. I

955
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,040
Speaker 2: think it's just very soulful. And then like you said,

956
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 2: Jodie comes out, she does Coyote. Paul Butterfield comes out,

957
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 2: does Mystery Train, Muddy Waters, Eric Clapton, which you can

958
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:23,800
Speaker 2: probably skip. He does further on Up the Road, and

959
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 2: I just again not my favorite part of the film.

960
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:30,319
Speaker 2: Emma Lou Harris is on the soundstage doing Evangeline like

961
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 2: so beautiful God the seventies teeth are poppin' love it,

962
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 2: love it so much. They do a couple more songs

963
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 2: by the band. Then Van Morrison comes out.

964
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 1: I knew you were gonna say this.

965
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:48,880
Speaker 2: And Van Morrison is doing the Caravan. And let me

966
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 2: tell you the outfit alone is worth a Google. Yeah,

967
00:53:54,200 --> 00:54:00,080
Speaker 2: it is a decision. The outfit is a decision. The pants,

968
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 2: the glitter, the tank top, the sweat, it is a choice.

969
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 2: But I have read several accounts of the fact that

970
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:11,920
Speaker 2: he was blackout drunk during this performance.

971
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:15,240
Speaker 1: Oh I'm sure sure allegedly.

972
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 2: Blackout drunk during this perform minute. And let me tell

973
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:25,359
Speaker 2: you it shows. It shows in those high kicks. It shows.

974
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 1: It's so fucking great.

975
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:35,080
Speaker 2: It's just entertaining. It is purely entertaining, and again just

976
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 2: a wild indication of that time and how these different

977
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 2: musicians got together and made it work, just fucking made

978
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,160
Speaker 2: it work. Yeah, but that is probably one of my

979
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 2: favorite parts of this doc is just he comes out

980
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:50,879
Speaker 2: and it's there. There are a lot of people who

981
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:53,920
Speaker 2: have indicated that Neil Diamond didn't quite fit in, but

982
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:55,799
Speaker 2: I think he fit in. He did Dry your Eyes

983
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:57,480
Speaker 2: and he fit in really well. And I love Neil

984
00:54:57,520 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 2: Diamond and I think he fit in pretty well. Van

985
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 2: Morrison weirdly was the shocker for me when I first

986
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, like, I've heard this song before. I

987
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 2: just didn't realize this was the guy singing it.

988
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:11,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah. The Highlight Kicks is probably like one

989
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 1: of the most famous portions of this documentary. I would

990
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 1: say it was the one I gravitated towards when I

991
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 1: first saw it. But yeah, I mean everybody, like, I

992
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:24,799
Speaker 1: think there's like memes of this online and stuff of

993
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 1: like the the Kicks on stage. I mean, it's incredible.

994
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 1: It's incredible to see an era where we're not These

995
00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:41,880
Speaker 1: are celebrities that are going on stage to be in

996
00:55:41,920 --> 00:55:45,839
Speaker 1: a public arena, also being filmed for a documentary by

997
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 1: a major director, and there's not like one pr person

998
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:52,719
Speaker 1: or one stylist. It's like, can we just wipe that

999
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:56,799
Speaker 1: cocaine off your fucking shawls before you go in front

1000
00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 1: of these people? Can we just like, uh, make sure

1001
00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 1: that your fucking dick is not gonna pop out of

1002
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:09,359
Speaker 1: these like lavender trousers or whatever. Like, no one is

1003
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:13,120
Speaker 1: checking these people. They just came as they were. They

1004
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:17,640
Speaker 1: did a pulling event that was documented for the rest

1005
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:21,840
Speaker 1: of history, and there's no oversight and there's just like

1006
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 1: this moment where I appreciate the shit out of that

1007
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:29,799
Speaker 1: because now you could never do shit like that. No

1008
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:33,799
Speaker 1: one is gonna allow this band to happen. Yeah.

1009
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 2: No, every musician still does cocaine. You just won't literally

1010
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:41,560
Speaker 2: see it on their faces anymore. No, Like it's just crazy,

1011
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:46,319
Speaker 2: but there's so many people around the musicians to where

1012
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 2: they're just like, you know, it's all so tightly controlled,

1013
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:53,799
Speaker 2: Like image is so tightly controlled now, and that's when

1014
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:54,360
Speaker 2: you watch.

1015
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:56,399
Speaker 1: Anything like this. First of all, they would never let

1016
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:58,520
Speaker 1: those people have those teeth. They would all have veneers.

1017
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 2: They wouldn't let them in have for those outfits like oh,

1018
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 2: Levon Helm and a fucking sheer, horizontally lined shirt. He

1019
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 2: makes it work. He looks hot as hell, but like,

1020
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 2: no one would let him go out there with that

1021
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:11,279
Speaker 2: shirt on.

1022
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 1: Let me tell you right now, you brought it up,

1023
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 1: so now I'm going down that road, bitch. I am

1024
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 1: there to me whenever, whenever I watch the Last Waltz,

1025
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 1: I'm constantly being like Robbie Robertson and Levon Helm are

1026
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:30,720
Speaker 1: the two sides of a perfect boyfriend. From me, I'm like,

1027
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:35,760
Speaker 1: I want the like sleek, I want the sleek, tall,

1028
00:57:35,840 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 1: thin like dark haired, like leather coat guy. But then

1029
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 1: i want like the country guy, the country, good old

1030
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 1: boy guy. I'm like, what is robbery? I'm like, if

1031
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 1: these two guys were like one person, that's the ideal

1032
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:53,720
Speaker 1: I'd be so that sense to me.

1033
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 2: That makes sense to me. And also, hilariously, Levon Helm

1034
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 2: Rest in Peace. King fucking hated this movie. Hated it

1035
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:04,400
Speaker 2: when it came out. He was like, I'm shocked at

1036
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 2: how bad it was. Like he said that to mart

1037
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:13,360
Speaker 2: Scorsese's face, basically shit, but you're right, and I'm a

1038
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 2: rick Danko girl.

1039
00:58:14,640 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 1: Oh interesting, very love that dude loved.

1040
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 2: But Robbie Robertson was so cute. But again, just I

1041
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:25,560
Speaker 2: love I just I love listening to them in between

1042
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 2: the songs. Robbie Robertson at some point when he's talking

1043
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 2: about why they're ending their run as the band, he says,

1044
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:36,440
Speaker 2: and I quote, that the road is a goddamn impossible

1045
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:38,600
Speaker 2: way of life. So a lot of these dudes were

1046
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:43,520
Speaker 2: making a decision to kind of become different types of

1047
00:58:43,600 --> 00:58:46,439
Speaker 2: musicians where maybe they weren't so roughly on the road

1048
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:48,440
Speaker 2: all the time, because it was really rough back then.

1049
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 2: There were no comforts. You could be the most popular

1050
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:52,919
Speaker 2: band in the world and you're not getting the same

1051
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 2: creature comforts that we get today. For so it's just tougher.

1052
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 1: Well, I'm like that. That to me is an interesting

1053
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:03,800
Speaker 1: thing too, because you think about a band who is

1054
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 1: who's been around for a long time. They have realized

1055
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 1: that they're kind of in this cycle where they're doing

1056
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:13,840
Speaker 1: like album tour, album tour, like whatever it is, right,

1057
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:18,440
Speaker 1: and maybe there is a moment because because they subsequently

1058
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:22,440
Speaker 1: did pretty much what you know, I guess the respectable

1059
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:24,760
Speaker 1: thing to do, which is that they just started doing

1060
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 1: music for movies and acting like this, So it's like

1061
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 1: live on Helm acted like Robbie Robertson, you know, obviously

1062
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 1: did a lot of soundtrack stuff.

1063
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 2: So it's just that thing, like I'm a huge producer.

1064
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, producing acting movie scores. Basically, it's kind

1065
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 1: of like the world that you move into after you

1066
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:50,240
Speaker 1: like have hung up your tour boots or whatever. But

1067
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 1: it is interesting to be caught in that moment right before,

1068
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 1: like once they've made the realization to like this is it?

1069
00:59:57,720 --> 01:00:01,480
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, So I love it and I just

1070
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:03,320
Speaker 2: love the At the end, you kind of get to

1071
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:06,320
Speaker 2: see them playing the theme and Robbie Robertson's got this

1072
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:09,280
Speaker 2: like twelve string guitar, and there's just something about it,

1073
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:12,120
Speaker 2: just showing them kind of in shadow with their instruments

1074
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:14,720
Speaker 2: and they're just musicians. They're just troubadours, They're just guys

1075
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:18,560
Speaker 2: playing right, And I just really respect it. I love it.

1076
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:20,680
Speaker 2: Like you said earlier, it brings you back to a

1077
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 2: time when fandom was different, when you're enjoying music was different,

1078
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:28,760
Speaker 2: when musicians were different. But I just really I really

1079
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 2: loved it. I really love going back to this film

1080
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:32,880
Speaker 2: time and again. It's classic to me for a reason.

1081
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:38,240
Speaker 2: And yeah, I just I truly just feel like it

1082
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:41,160
Speaker 2: is something I will go back to again and again.

1083
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 2: I love the music. I love everything about it. I

1084
01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 2: do too.

1085
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 1: It's such a comfort watch. It's funny because I actually

1086
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 1: heard the soundtrack before I watched the film. Really, yes,

1087
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:54,440
Speaker 1: because I have to say, when I was in high school,

1088
01:00:56,160 --> 01:01:00,480
Speaker 1: there was this guy that I hung out with for

1089
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 1: a while I think, who was like kind of a jock.

1090
01:01:05,120 --> 01:01:07,120
Speaker 1: I mean, he really wasn't a jock. I think he

1091
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:09,480
Speaker 1: was in the band, like he was in the marching band,

1092
01:01:09,880 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 1: but then played soccer, so he was kind of like

1093
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 1: an alt jock. I guess, if you will, maybe like

1094
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 1: a hippie, a hippie jock. And I have no idea

1095
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 1: why he wanted to hang out with me, because I

1096
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:25,680
Speaker 1: was a fucking freak anyway, but somehow.

1097
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 2: He because he had good taste clearly, Yeah, I mean.

1098
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:31,200
Speaker 1: I guess he was cool. I don't know, Like it's

1099
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:33,840
Speaker 1: always weird when a when a jock crosses over and

1100
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:35,920
Speaker 1: you're like, what do they want from me? What do

1101
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 1: they think of me?

1102
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:39,320
Speaker 2: What fucking crisis are you going through?

1103
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:43,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like an angry Marxist got the Jason punk person,

1104
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 1: what the fuck do they want from me? But he

1105
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:52,160
Speaker 1: was very open minded. But like I remember this distinctly.

1106
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 1: I remember like driving around in his car and he

1107
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 1: had the box set, the Last Waltz box set on

1108
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:02,840
Speaker 1: CD and on the floor of his car and it

1109
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 1: was smashed. It was just like he had listened to

1110
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:07,320
Speaker 1: it so much. He did not put it in a

1111
01:02:07,360 --> 01:02:11,560
Speaker 1: protective CD book. It just the cover was ripped off

1112
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:15,240
Speaker 1: and like the whole thing was flattened. But he loved it.

1113
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:17,480
Speaker 1: I mean he played it a lot. And uh, that

1114
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:18,920
Speaker 1: was the first time that I was like, what the

1115
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:23,240
Speaker 1: fuck is this the last Waltz. And then it wasn't

1116
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:25,600
Speaker 1: until like I don't know, maybe college or something, that

1117
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 1: I finally saw the Last Waltz and I was like,

1118
01:02:28,480 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 1: this is amazing. Like absolutely, it's such a vibe. Like

1119
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:36,040
Speaker 1: I said it now, I've seen it multiple times. It

1120
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:37,960
Speaker 1: just I love having it on in the house. It

1121
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:41,920
Speaker 1: just feels good, you know. So I'm just glad that

1122
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:43,720
Speaker 1: I got to watch it again. It's so good.

1123
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 2: I'm so happy. And just even the space that they

1124
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:48,400
Speaker 2: were in like that, you know, Bill Graham had a

1125
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:50,240
Speaker 2: lot of lot to do with the music scene back

1126
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:52,440
Speaker 2: in the sixties and seventies, and they had these like

1127
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:58,040
Speaker 2: gorgeous chandeliers and like very minimal the beautiful backing in

1128
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:00,480
Speaker 2: this space they were, and it's just it was all wonderful.

1129
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:02,960
Speaker 2: So I highly recommend watching it again, even if you

1130
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:05,320
Speaker 2: don't think you like the music. Like it's a beautiful

1131
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:10,640
Speaker 2: classic classic music doc to get into and learn a

1132
01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:12,480
Speaker 2: little bit and kind of feel the feeling of what

1133
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:15,959
Speaker 2: it was like when things weren't so crushingly overproduced.

1134
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:26,320
Speaker 1: Uh, totally agree. Well, you want to talk about my

1135
01:03:27,080 --> 01:03:28,000
Speaker 1: movie a little bit.

1136
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:29,400
Speaker 2: She genuinely cannot wait.

1137
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:33,080
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, so much that I forgot.

1138
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:34,480
Speaker 2: This.

1139
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 1: This is gonna be all over the place, and I

1140
01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:42,080
Speaker 1: apologize in advance. So my movie for the theme classic

1141
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:45,440
Speaker 1: music docs is from nineteen ninety one. It was directed

1142
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:51,160
Speaker 1: by Alec Kashushian, and it's called Madonna Truth or Dare

1143
01:03:51,560 --> 01:03:56,960
Speaker 1: I'm so desperate for what? For some fun? I don't

1144
01:03:57,000 --> 01:03:59,680
Speaker 1: think I think we are in absolute agreeance about this,

1145
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:07,840
Speaker 1: but this documentary came at the absolute pinnacle of my

1146
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:14,800
Speaker 1: childhood obsession with her on do Per Blonde Ambition tour. Uh,

1147
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:19,439
Speaker 1: this was this came out. When Like a Prayer came

1148
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:21,560
Speaker 1: out the album Like a Prayer, And let me tell

1149
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:26,680
Speaker 1: you right now, I raced home from school the day

1150
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:29,680
Speaker 1: that MTV was going to premiere the Like a Prayer video,

1151
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:37,640
Speaker 1: and it was like I watched the Devils or some

1152
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:42,760
Speaker 1: shit like I was like, Oh, I'm watching the most sacrilegious, sexual,

1153
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:50,280
Speaker 1: like transgressive art I've ever seen in my like ten

1154
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:54,320
Speaker 1: year old brain or whatever. Whenever this movie came out, eleven.

1155
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 2: Do you the PEPSI tie in and tried to yell

1156
01:04:57,600 --> 01:05:00,520
Speaker 2: the video that is so cool to me.

1157
01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:03,120
Speaker 1: Now I'm like, what were they thinking? Dude?

1158
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 2: This video ruined lies like i'd grown men on the

1159
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:11,760
Speaker 2: news at night losing their fucking mind because she made

1160
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:13,640
Speaker 2: this video. And I had to watch this video with

1161
01:05:13,640 --> 01:05:17,640
Speaker 2: my grandmother, and my grandmother famously cannot stand Madonna for

1162
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:20,840
Speaker 2: no reason at all. Oh wow, to always call her

1163
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:23,600
Speaker 2: that hussy, I think like a virgin was not the

1164
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 2: way she should have been introduced to Madonna.

1165
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:28,120
Speaker 1: No, she's like, why am I watching.

1166
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:30,520
Speaker 2: This girl hump herself all over stage? What is going

1167
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:31,480
Speaker 2: in a wedding dress?

1168
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:32,640
Speaker 1: That was not the move.

1169
01:05:33,200 --> 01:05:35,240
Speaker 2: But then this video came out and she was like

1170
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:37,320
Speaker 2: on the one. It was kind of interesting to watch

1171
01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:40,760
Speaker 2: her go through her own personal travails because she was like,

1172
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:43,120
Speaker 2: all right, on the one hand, I can't stay Madonna.

1173
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:46,120
Speaker 2: On the other hand, there's a black man playing Jesus.

1174
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:50,000
Speaker 1: On a third note, why does this white girl have

1175
01:05:50,040 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 1: a black man playing and why are they doing it

1176
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:55,640
Speaker 1: in a church?

1177
01:05:56,480 --> 01:06:00,920
Speaker 2: Fucking like her emotional rollercoaster? Why this video with her?

1178
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:03,200
Speaker 2: Because I'm just like, I love this song and She's like, what.

1179
01:06:03,040 --> 01:06:04,320
Speaker 1: The fuck am I watch.

1180
01:06:06,280 --> 01:06:10,720
Speaker 2: The burning crosses, the burning crosses, which you can't show

1181
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:12,880
Speaker 2: a burning cross to an old black lady on TB

1182
01:06:13,000 --> 01:06:14,920
Speaker 2: and have her does not have an opinion about that.

1183
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:20,000
Speaker 1: Hell fucking no, you can't. Oh God, so transgressive, And

1184
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:23,360
Speaker 1: I mean I grew up Catholic, right, So I was

1185
01:06:23,480 --> 01:06:27,200
Speaker 1: like a certain points of Madonna's career, I was like,

1186
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:29,560
Speaker 1: I see you boo, like I see what you're trying

1187
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:35,960
Speaker 1: to do. I feel I see the trauma, I see you,

1188
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:39,720
Speaker 1: I see you making a statement here I'm with you.

1189
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:42,320
Speaker 1: But there was just moments where I was like, Yo,

1190
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:46,040
Speaker 1: this is so wild, this is so love. So that

1191
01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:50,080
Speaker 1: video came out and then, as you know, Dick Tracy,

1192
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 1: Dick Tracy huge in our childhood.

1193
01:06:55,520 --> 01:07:01,760
Speaker 2: Like pre imagine pre Marvel Cinematic Universe, someone doing a

1194
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:07,360
Speaker 2: movie about a comic book and an old ass comic book.

1195
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:11,560
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I have too much to say about

1196
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:14,400
Speaker 1: the Dick Tracy Warren Baty thing because I have like

1197
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:21,480
Speaker 1: direct experience with what with this, like history with it.

1198
01:07:22,240 --> 01:07:26,400
Speaker 1: That is maybe for another time. I've actually been asked

1199
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:30,760
Speaker 1: this before, my people, because basically Warren Baty bought the

1200
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:33,600
Speaker 1: rights to Dick Tracy and that refuses to give them

1201
01:07:33,680 --> 01:07:37,240
Speaker 1: up and will do whatever he has to do in

1202
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:41,480
Speaker 1: order to keep the rights for some unknown reason, including

1203
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:49,560
Speaker 1: making weird television specials about Lord Dick Tracy that I

1204
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:53,000
Speaker 1: might have programmed when I worked at a classic.

1205
01:07:52,600 --> 01:07:58,520
Speaker 2: Television Oh my god, this is a classic classic situation

1206
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:02,640
Speaker 2: of Boom cannot let go of something from his childhood.

1207
01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:09,640
Speaker 1: Like I I gotta tell you, it's so weird and

1208
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:11,400
Speaker 1: funny to me that this is the way it is,

1209
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:15,320
Speaker 1: like and it's just so bizarre. I mean, honestly, I

1210
01:08:15,680 --> 01:08:19,400
Speaker 1: just when you think, like the world could not possibly

1211
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:23,400
Speaker 1: make any more weird art, like we're so ironic in

1212
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:29,840
Speaker 1: like nine million steps removed from authentically weird art. This

1213
01:08:29,920 --> 01:08:33,960
Speaker 1: is it. Like I was surprised that this could exist

1214
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:35,080
Speaker 1: in the modern era.

1215
01:08:36,160 --> 01:08:38,720
Speaker 2: It was wild back then. It made no sense when

1216
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:42,240
Speaker 2: it came out and remains wild to this day that

1217
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:42,759
Speaker 2: it came.

1218
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:44,960
Speaker 1: Out, like you're gonna have to go on YouTube to

1219
01:08:45,040 --> 01:08:48,040
Speaker 1: find it, like by the way, like like the TV

1220
01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:51,120
Speaker 1: special that he did that is truly just for him

1221
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:53,000
Speaker 1: to retain the rights to Dick Tracy where he like

1222
01:08:53,280 --> 01:08:57,040
Speaker 1: he like interviews himself as Dick Tracy. It's so crazy

1223
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:02,719
Speaker 1: and it's like, oh, I mean he's like, you know whatever, however,

1224
01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:05,280
Speaker 1: Oldie is right now, You're just like, good, what is

1225
01:09:05,320 --> 01:09:08,120
Speaker 1: going on? Okay? I I just have to say I

1226
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:09,599
Speaker 1: had to. I had to go down that road because

1227
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:12,360
Speaker 1: Dick Tracy was huge and Madonna was in Dick Tracy

1228
01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:17,880
Speaker 1: obviously famously they were dating right when when this came out.

1229
01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:22,040
Speaker 1: He's in the documentary Warren Bady is so but this

1230
01:09:22,240 --> 01:09:25,640
Speaker 1: but like generally this this era of Madonna is the

1231
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:28,559
Speaker 1: one that I remember. It's the one I most fondest of.

1232
01:09:28,920 --> 01:09:31,960
Speaker 1: It's like the height of her glamour, right her like

1233
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:36,720
Speaker 1: old Hollywood kind of like Express Yourself video where it

1234
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:42,200
Speaker 1: kind of is like Art Deco like meets the Fountain. Yes,

1235
01:09:42,320 --> 01:09:47,000
Speaker 1: industrial so I read that, and closely related to that,

1236
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:50,759
Speaker 1: I read that at one point David Fincher, who directed

1237
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:53,479
Speaker 1: obviously a lot of the Madonna videos, was going to

1238
01:09:53,560 --> 01:09:57,160
Speaker 1: direct this documentary, but then he backed out, I guess

1239
01:09:57,200 --> 01:09:59,360
Speaker 1: at the last minute, and then Madonna kind of went

1240
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:04,439
Speaker 1: with this guy, Alec Kishishian to make it basically, and

1241
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:07,160
Speaker 1: he was like a young filmmaker and she kind of

1242
01:10:07,240 --> 01:10:11,439
Speaker 1: like found him, like found his his film work that

1243
01:10:11,479 --> 01:10:13,599
Speaker 1: he had done in college and stuff. So she kind

1244
01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:15,720
Speaker 1: of like took a gamble with getting this kind of

1245
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:19,280
Speaker 1: unknown person to do it, but it paid off because

1246
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:22,360
Speaker 1: a lot of what I love about this documentary there's

1247
01:10:22,439 --> 01:10:24,320
Speaker 1: kind of like two things, and I think that this

1248
01:10:24,439 --> 01:10:27,679
Speaker 1: is obviously influenced by the director in a lot of ways.

1249
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:31,280
Speaker 1: One is that, like most of it is filmed in

1250
01:10:31,320 --> 01:10:34,880
Speaker 1: black and white, which obviously seemed like a not to

1251
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:37,760
Speaker 1: kind of classic film but also kind of like a

1252
01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:42,840
Speaker 1: cinema verite classic documentary style. And then you know the performances,

1253
01:10:43,360 --> 01:10:47,200
Speaker 1: because there are they're interspersed within this documentary, are you

1254
01:10:47,240 --> 01:10:52,040
Speaker 1: know concert performances, most notably the one holiday which they

1255
01:10:52,080 --> 01:10:55,680
Speaker 1: actually used to show as a video on MTV, So

1256
01:10:55,720 --> 01:10:57,760
Speaker 1: those are in color but for the most part, the

1257
01:10:57,840 --> 01:10:59,599
Speaker 1: rest of the doc is in black and white, which

1258
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:04,080
Speaker 1: I think is I think it works really well. The

1259
01:11:04,240 --> 01:11:09,280
Speaker 1: second one is that he I think when he kind

1260
01:11:09,320 --> 01:11:13,559
Speaker 1: of distilled all of the information about Madonna and what

1261
01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:16,880
Speaker 1: this documentary could be, I think the director from what

1262
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:18,960
Speaker 1: I read, it sounds like he was like, you know,

1263
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:22,599
Speaker 1: what's the most interesting is the people that you work with,

1264
01:11:24,120 --> 01:11:29,160
Speaker 1: And so there's this undercurrent of and this is again

1265
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:33,160
Speaker 1: like something that I just miss in this. I missed

1266
01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:37,040
Speaker 1: this because it doesn't feel like this happens enough now

1267
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:41,599
Speaker 1: where the movie is centered around Madonna obviously, but she's

1268
01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:47,479
Speaker 1: also it's also about her staff, like her dancers, her

1269
01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:51,360
Speaker 1: backup singers. I mean, it's just so good. It's so

1270
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:53,880
Speaker 1: good that they focused in on these people because you

1271
01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:56,040
Speaker 1: just never at this point, you never get to see

1272
01:11:56,040 --> 01:11:59,960
Speaker 1: who's behind the scenes, right, You don't know Beyonce's backup

1273
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:03,040
Speaker 1: dancers by name, you know, And.

1274
01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:06,360
Speaker 2: It reveals a different level at the time, it didn't

1275
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:08,679
Speaker 2: even now in the rewatch, it reveals a different level

1276
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:12,479
Speaker 2: of Madonna watching her interact with these people, particularly because

1277
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:16,600
Speaker 2: she's so caring towards them, like the years before she

1278
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:19,360
Speaker 2: actually became a mother. I think this was the first

1279
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:21,200
Speaker 2: time that a lot of us saw how badly she

1280
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:22,120
Speaker 2: wanted to be a mother.

1281
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:25,559
Speaker 1: Yes, and that's exactly what it is. She kind of

1282
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:29,679
Speaker 1: feels like a house mother, to be honest, to all

1283
01:12:29,720 --> 01:12:32,720
Speaker 1: of these dancers and these and these people that she

1284
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:34,880
Speaker 1: works with, the dancers, by the way, who are mostly

1285
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:39,200
Speaker 1: gay men of color, right, and in this era, I

1286
01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:42,840
Speaker 1: mean this is like again ninety one, you have stuff

1287
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:45,479
Speaker 1: like Paris Is Burning. We were just kind of becoming

1288
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:49,360
Speaker 1: acquainted with the concept of, like, you know, the lives

1289
01:12:49,400 --> 01:12:52,679
Speaker 1: of gay men of color in this in this world, right,

1290
01:12:53,560 --> 01:12:56,080
Speaker 1: And I think this movie and Paris's Burning were two

1291
01:12:56,160 --> 01:12:59,840
Speaker 1: great examples of seeing the kind of the social structure

1292
01:13:00,680 --> 01:13:03,519
Speaker 1: of gay men of color at this time, which is

1293
01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:05,639
Speaker 1: that you know, it was kind of based around these

1294
01:13:05,640 --> 01:13:07,920
Speaker 1: houses and you know, and that's what it felt like

1295
01:13:07,960 --> 01:13:10,559
Speaker 1: to me. Anyways, Madonna was kind of like the house

1296
01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:12,320
Speaker 1: mom to a lot of these young boys.

1297
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:14,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that alone is interesting.

1298
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:15,880
Speaker 1: Now.

1299
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:17,760
Speaker 2: At the time, I wasn't aware of any of this,

1300
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:21,360
Speaker 2: of course, but now it's interesting to think that at

1301
01:13:21,400 --> 01:13:24,719
Speaker 2: the same time that she's supporting this culture, she's also

1302
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:30,160
Speaker 2: appropriating and capitalizing on it, Like Vogue came from this

1303
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:34,240
Speaker 2: dance scene. It came from a very queer scene in

1304
01:13:34,280 --> 01:13:40,280
Speaker 2: New York, and so she clearly again supports and honestly supports, Like, look,

1305
01:13:40,600 --> 01:13:42,600
Speaker 2: it does not feel fake to me that she's supporting

1306
01:13:43,479 --> 01:13:46,200
Speaker 2: all of these queer gay men in her life but

1307
01:13:46,320 --> 01:13:48,960
Speaker 2: also at the simultaneously capitalizes on it.

1308
01:13:49,840 --> 01:13:52,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's kind of It's obviously very interesting,

1309
01:13:54,680 --> 01:13:58,120
Speaker 1: and there's all there's honestly like been criticism about Paris

1310
01:13:58,200 --> 01:14:02,639
Speaker 1: is burning for the same reason, right, like who's in charge?

1311
01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:05,320
Speaker 2: Who who's profiting?

1312
01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:09,400
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, this entire episode is about capitalism.

1313
01:14:09,479 --> 01:14:13,520
Speaker 2: I think that's so funny capitalism.

1314
01:14:14,479 --> 01:14:17,120
Speaker 1: But you know what I mean. But at the time,

1315
01:14:17,439 --> 01:14:19,320
Speaker 1: because this is the thing I also want to stress

1316
01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:21,840
Speaker 1: to people who have never seen this before and maybe

1317
01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:27,320
Speaker 1: don't have like a real knowledge of culture in the

1318
01:14:27,560 --> 01:14:31,240
Speaker 1: late eighties early nineties, this was it. Like I mean,

1319
01:14:31,240 --> 01:14:34,200
Speaker 1: it was basically like there was no you could very

1320
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:39,439
Speaker 1: rarely see gay people on TV or anywhere, and you

1321
01:14:39,479 --> 01:14:44,599
Speaker 1: know the ways in which Madonna was using her fame

1322
01:14:44,840 --> 01:14:49,040
Speaker 1: to make political statements, and she was an absolute provocateur,

1323
01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:53,120
Speaker 1: like and it was intentional. This is like what she

1324
01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:57,000
Speaker 1: wanted to do. And I think that she did do

1325
01:14:57,160 --> 01:14:59,479
Speaker 1: a good job of that. Like she really fucks the

1326
01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:04,360
Speaker 1: people absolutely in a way that I very much appreciated

1327
01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:07,599
Speaker 1: at the time and even now so same and yeah,

1328
01:15:07,640 --> 01:15:09,360
Speaker 1: she was at the height of her power and knew

1329
01:15:09,400 --> 01:15:12,240
Speaker 1: what to do with it, weirdly, and what she wanted

1330
01:15:12,280 --> 01:15:14,200
Speaker 1: to do with it was continue to be an artist

1331
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:19,599
Speaker 1: and a provocateur, and that artists and the provocateur and

1332
01:15:19,640 --> 01:15:23,960
Speaker 1: someone who was unwilling to compromise her actual values in

1333
01:15:24,080 --> 01:15:26,760
Speaker 1: order to be famous. Yeah, and I mean this was

1334
01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:28,839
Speaker 1: the time. I mean again you think about the eighties.

1335
01:15:29,200 --> 01:15:31,960
Speaker 1: I mean the nineties was informed by the eighties. Obviously,

1336
01:15:32,120 --> 01:15:37,080
Speaker 1: eighties was very conservative, homophobic, racist era with Reaganism and

1337
01:15:37,160 --> 01:15:41,600
Speaker 1: you know the PRMC. There was a lot of censorship

1338
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:43,840
Speaker 1: in the arts, you know, so this.

1339
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:48,080
Speaker 2: Sleet dismissal of AIDS and HIV like absolutely.

1340
01:15:48,080 --> 01:15:52,639
Speaker 1: People believing that like you know, devil worshiping was being

1341
01:15:52,680 --> 01:15:56,080
Speaker 1: tucked into like song lyrics and stuff. I mean, this

1342
01:15:56,160 --> 01:15:58,599
Speaker 1: is why you have a Madonna, right is because it's

1343
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:01,040
Speaker 1: a reaction towards all of the things that were happening

1344
01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:04,000
Speaker 1: back then. So and this is this documentary is a

1345
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:06,360
Speaker 1: full display of that. For better or for worse, I mean,

1346
01:16:06,360 --> 01:16:11,000
Speaker 1: there's there's a there's a lot of very transgressive. There's

1347
01:16:11,040 --> 01:16:13,040
Speaker 1: a lot of transgressive things in this documentary. There's a

1348
01:16:13,120 --> 01:16:16,080
Speaker 1: kind of stuff that's like whoa, I literally cannot believe

1349
01:16:16,120 --> 01:16:19,400
Speaker 1: that that happened. And in modern context that seems kind

1350
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:23,360
Speaker 1: of fucked up. Back then though different different circumstance.

1351
01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:29,599
Speaker 2: Are we talking about how her makeup artist basically says

1352
01:16:29,640 --> 01:16:32,240
Speaker 2: that she was sexually assaulted and they kind of brush

1353
01:16:32,280 --> 01:16:32,719
Speaker 2: it off.

1354
01:16:33,280 --> 01:16:36,559
Speaker 1: Absolutely, that was like a huge moment for me. So

1355
01:16:36,720 --> 01:16:39,280
Speaker 1: one like, her makeup artist, you know, tells a story

1356
01:16:39,280 --> 01:16:43,360
Speaker 1: about how she got drugged one night and assaulted, and

1357
01:16:43,479 --> 01:16:45,240
Speaker 1: she's just kind of telling the story as if it

1358
01:16:45,280 --> 01:16:46,800
Speaker 1: was a story to tell, and I was like.

1359
01:16:46,880 --> 01:16:51,160
Speaker 2: Yo, like and Monona doesn't even flinch. She's like yeah anyway,

1360
01:16:51,200 --> 01:16:53,280
Speaker 2: And I'm like, wait, wait, wait nowadays that would not

1361
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:54,000
Speaker 2: fly at all.

1362
01:16:54,200 --> 01:16:56,800
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely nor would. I Mean, there's a there's one

1363
01:16:56,800 --> 01:17:01,160
Speaker 1: of the dancers in her in her crew, is actually straight,

1364
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:04,640
Speaker 1: and there are moments where he kind of, you know,

1365
01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:07,479
Speaker 1: like acts out about that, like he's just like I

1366
01:17:07,680 --> 01:17:09,759
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of f bombs and stuff

1367
01:17:09,800 --> 01:17:13,240
Speaker 1: like that, and again, yeah, modern eyes, that's weird and

1368
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:16,400
Speaker 1: not great, but at the time it was a reality

1369
01:17:16,560 --> 01:17:20,200
Speaker 1: I guess of if you were a professional dancer, you know,

1370
01:17:20,560 --> 01:17:24,080
Speaker 1: like working with the Madonnataur. You know, it was that

1371
01:17:24,120 --> 01:17:27,720
Speaker 1: thing where he was young and this is how he

1372
01:17:27,800 --> 01:17:29,120
Speaker 1: expressed himself.

1373
01:17:29,720 --> 01:17:31,759
Speaker 2: And she was so aware of that, which I actually

1374
01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:35,639
Speaker 2: appreciated seeing and forgot that she was aware, and at

1375
01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:37,639
Speaker 2: one point even says, you know, this is the first

1376
01:17:37,720 --> 01:17:39,879
Speaker 2: time a lot of my dancers are leaving the country,

1377
01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:42,360
Speaker 2: are having this opportunity, and so I think she felt

1378
01:17:42,360 --> 01:17:45,680
Speaker 2: a real responsibility to kind of showing them how to

1379
01:17:45,680 --> 01:17:46,320
Speaker 2: be in the world.

1380
01:17:46,920 --> 01:17:50,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, which felt good. Yeah, And like, this is

1381
01:17:51,160 --> 01:17:53,200
Speaker 1: the thing that I want to go back to about

1382
01:17:53,479 --> 01:17:57,040
Speaker 1: the technique of the documentary that focuses on these people

1383
01:17:57,120 --> 01:17:59,960
Speaker 1: in her life. It is a family like she is.

1384
01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:02,280
Speaker 1: It feels like a family, and it's like one of

1385
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:04,719
Speaker 1: the best parts of this documentary. I mean, not only

1386
01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:07,519
Speaker 1: is like, you know, the family that she's created with

1387
01:18:07,640 --> 01:18:10,439
Speaker 1: these with these dancers and with these other people on tour,

1388
01:18:10,760 --> 01:18:13,400
Speaker 1: but also her actual family, like her brother's on tour

1389
01:18:13,439 --> 01:18:16,519
Speaker 1: with her. At one point, her other brother comes into

1390
01:18:16,520 --> 01:18:23,240
Speaker 1: the picture and some conversations about that. You know, her

1391
01:18:23,320 --> 01:18:27,519
Speaker 1: dad shows up at one point in a show, and

1392
01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:29,559
Speaker 1: so I don't know that's I think the thing that

1393
01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:34,519
Speaker 1: really makes this special for me is that and her mom. Yeah,

1394
01:18:34,520 --> 01:18:36,800
Speaker 1: and her mom. Oh my gosh, just forgot to say

1395
01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:40,599
Speaker 1: her mom. With there's this her mom passed away when

1396
01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:45,479
Speaker 1: she was young, right, maybe something wish I didn't remember. Yeah,

1397
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:47,680
Speaker 1: I knew that about her, but it wasn't until I

1398
01:18:47,720 --> 01:18:49,800
Speaker 1: watched this that you know she there's this part where

1399
01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:54,400
Speaker 1: she actually goes to the cemetery to visit her mom's gravesite.

1400
01:18:54,600 --> 01:18:58,040
Speaker 1: And uh, I've read reviews where people think that it's

1401
01:18:58,120 --> 01:19:02,320
Speaker 1: kind of jarring in the context of the full documentary

1402
01:19:02,320 --> 01:19:05,080
Speaker 1: to see this part happen. I don't know. I thought

1403
01:19:05,080 --> 01:19:07,720
Speaker 1: it was kind of sweet, Like I did too, you know,

1404
01:19:08,040 --> 01:19:10,800
Speaker 1: like you're going to criticize Madonna for going to visit

1405
01:19:10,840 --> 01:19:11,559
Speaker 1: her dead mom.

1406
01:19:11,680 --> 01:19:15,479
Speaker 2: I mean, but that's also the height of how how

1407
01:19:15,640 --> 01:19:19,240
Speaker 2: famous she was. Like anything she did, people found a

1408
01:19:19,280 --> 01:19:22,920
Speaker 2: way to spin negatively because she if you didn't like her,

1409
01:19:22,960 --> 01:19:24,360
Speaker 2: you just didn't like her.

1410
01:19:24,840 --> 01:19:28,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, And there's also the question, I mean, like it's

1411
01:19:28,120 --> 01:19:31,160
Speaker 1: something that you said earlier, which is the artifice of it,

1412
01:19:31,600 --> 01:19:34,240
Speaker 1: which I think is really interesting. I mean, we're going

1413
01:19:34,280 --> 01:19:36,080
Speaker 1: to be this is all. This is not only a

1414
01:19:36,080 --> 01:19:40,479
Speaker 1: capitalist takedown, but we're also going to do like art

1415
01:19:40,520 --> 01:19:44,519
Speaker 1: appreciation two hundred or something. I don't know, We're like

1416
01:19:44,960 --> 01:19:48,200
Speaker 1: we're on one this episode. But the idea of her

1417
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:53,880
Speaker 1: being this celebrity and the idea that she is performing

1418
01:19:55,560 --> 01:19:59,439
Speaker 1: a personality, right, she's performing her personality, but she also

1419
01:19:59,760 --> 01:20:03,880
Speaker 1: does performer personality, and I also feel like, I don't know,

1420
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:07,040
Speaker 1: to me, it felt like, especially if you compare it

1421
01:20:07,080 --> 01:20:13,920
Speaker 1: to stuff now, everything now is so again pr to death, polished,

1422
01:20:14,000 --> 01:20:19,120
Speaker 1: media polished. Everyone's just so careful about things that sometimes

1423
01:20:19,840 --> 01:20:24,080
Speaker 1: you see somebody who was just kind of like acting like,

1424
01:20:24,520 --> 01:20:27,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, like showing off. She's showing off is

1425
01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:32,040
Speaker 1: basically what's doing and like, but it's an authentic showing off.

1426
01:20:32,080 --> 01:20:33,720
Speaker 1: I don't know how to describe it.

1427
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:36,960
Speaker 2: It just feels like a natural brattiness that she knows

1428
01:20:37,080 --> 01:20:39,200
Speaker 2: is going to come through as being a brad and

1429
01:20:39,240 --> 01:20:41,519
Speaker 2: she does not give a shit, right, and it's.

1430
01:20:41,479 --> 01:20:44,439
Speaker 1: Part of her charm in a way. Like I'm like,

1431
01:20:45,840 --> 01:20:47,880
Speaker 1: I don't know, I feel like I feel like, now

1432
01:20:47,960 --> 01:20:49,200
Speaker 1: that's hard to pull off.

1433
01:20:49,200 --> 01:20:53,000
Speaker 2: But she pass absolutely And also she's not a great actress,

1434
01:20:53,000 --> 01:20:55,439
Speaker 2: so there are moments where you feel like, no, this

1435
01:20:55,560 --> 01:20:58,160
Speaker 2: is still real, even if it's tightened, it's still really her.

1436
01:20:58,479 --> 01:21:03,120
Speaker 2: She knows what she's doing. But the most hilarious confirmation

1437
01:21:03,240 --> 01:21:05,240
Speaker 2: of that for me is any interaction she has with

1438
01:21:05,280 --> 01:21:09,400
Speaker 2: Warren Batty, who is deeply reluctant to be in this film.

1439
01:21:09,800 --> 01:21:11,400
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. I don't know if anyone has watched The

1440
01:21:11,840 --> 01:21:14,680
Speaker 2: Carmichael Show on HBO, like Jerrod Carmichael did like an

1441
01:21:14,680 --> 01:21:18,760
Speaker 2: eight episode reality series about his life recently, and bo

1442
01:21:18,880 --> 01:21:23,320
Speaker 2: Burnham clearly. Bo Burnham appears in some episodes, but he's

1443
01:21:23,320 --> 01:21:25,160
Speaker 2: wearing like a face mask because he's like, I don't

1444
01:21:25,160 --> 01:21:26,599
Speaker 2: want to be part of this, but I am part

1445
01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:29,599
Speaker 2: of it. It's that kind of energy that Warren Batty

1446
01:21:29,680 --> 01:21:31,639
Speaker 2: is bringing to this, like I'm here, but I don't

1447
01:21:31,680 --> 01:21:33,360
Speaker 2: want to talk. I can't believe this is ridiculous that

1448
01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:35,439
Speaker 2: you're doing this on camera like he's but he's also

1449
01:21:35,680 --> 01:21:38,040
Speaker 2: there and he's part of it. And there are moments

1450
01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:40,200
Speaker 2: where she's interacting with him and you're like, she would

1451
01:21:40,240 --> 01:21:45,200
Speaker 2: be a terrible girlfriend. She's just so bratty and you

1452
01:21:45,280 --> 01:21:47,920
Speaker 2: cannot please her, and she's just so she hangs up

1453
01:21:47,960 --> 01:21:51,040
Speaker 2: on him mid sentence and like yeah, but it's also

1454
01:21:51,200 --> 01:21:53,160
Speaker 2: it's performative because she kind of wings to the camera

1455
01:21:53,200 --> 01:21:55,360
Speaker 2: when she does that kind of thing. Oh yeah, but

1456
01:21:55,400 --> 01:21:56,920
Speaker 2: it's a very interesting mix.

1457
01:21:57,400 --> 01:22:00,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of like if if you know, like

1458
01:22:00,760 --> 01:22:03,439
Speaker 1: a boomer was dating a gen Z person where they're

1459
01:22:03,520 --> 01:22:06,040
Speaker 1: just like rolling their eyes and they're just like, oh god,

1460
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:09,519
Speaker 1: my like young girlfriend is being ridiculous and you know,

1461
01:22:09,640 --> 01:22:12,040
Speaker 1: being a brat, and like that's the thing too, is

1462
01:22:12,080 --> 01:22:14,679
Speaker 1: that like you know, you forget that Warren Baty comes

1463
01:22:14,680 --> 01:22:17,599
Speaker 1: from that kind of classic Hollywood era where everything was

1464
01:22:18,120 --> 01:22:21,280
Speaker 1: you don't give away too much and everything is sort

1465
01:22:21,320 --> 01:22:25,200
Speaker 1: of like you know again like the Hollywood system and

1466
01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:28,680
Speaker 1: you know, people are polished and you know that kind

1467
01:22:28,680 --> 01:22:32,280
Speaker 1: of stuff. So he's like, this crazy woman that I'm

1468
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:37,320
Speaker 1: involved with is like spilling the tea about how I

1469
01:22:37,439 --> 01:22:41,120
Speaker 1: didn't fuck Edie Sedgwick, you know what I mean. It's

1470
01:22:41,160 --> 01:22:45,600
Speaker 1: just such a wild story to tell completely.

1471
01:22:45,640 --> 01:22:48,480
Speaker 2: But then also in the same vein, there's a tenderness

1472
01:22:48,479 --> 01:22:51,000
Speaker 2: that shows through for her when she's clearly talking about

1473
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:54,120
Speaker 2: Warren Beatty and she's doing like he loves me, he

1474
01:22:54,160 --> 01:22:56,280
Speaker 2: loves me not on this flower that she's picking the

1475
01:22:56,320 --> 01:22:59,240
Speaker 2: petals out of yeah, and is like trying to figure

1476
01:22:59,280 --> 01:23:00,519
Speaker 2: out what he feels about her.

1477
01:23:01,320 --> 01:23:05,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, yeah, there's and this This is the

1478
01:23:05,320 --> 01:23:09,719
Speaker 1: thing is that considering the time that this was made,

1479
01:23:10,120 --> 01:23:14,640
Speaker 1: this is there's so much tea. I like love the

1480
01:23:14,720 --> 01:23:18,240
Speaker 1: shit out of it, because, first of all, how could

1481
01:23:18,280 --> 01:23:21,840
Speaker 1: you forget? Perhaps the best part for me is when

1482
01:23:21,960 --> 01:23:31,040
Speaker 1: Kevin Costner shows up to her concert legendary part. This

1483
01:23:31,160 --> 01:23:36,559
Speaker 1: is a legendary part of this documentary. So Kevin Coster

1484
01:23:36,600 --> 01:23:39,719
Speaker 1: the actor shows up to the concert because she's basically

1485
01:23:39,800 --> 01:23:42,040
Speaker 1: in LA and there's a bunch of celebrities back there.

1486
01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:46,280
Speaker 1: It's like freaking Manny Petikins back there, like there's you know,

1487
01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:50,800
Speaker 1: so many, so many famous people. And then like Kevin

1488
01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:53,920
Speaker 1: cost shows up and he's just kind of this like

1489
01:23:54,680 --> 01:23:58,599
Speaker 1: milk toast, fucking like, hey, yes, I let you, thanks

1490
01:23:58,640 --> 01:24:01,240
Speaker 1: for having me. I got to go home to my kids,

1491
01:24:01,280 --> 01:24:02,760
Speaker 1: but I just wanted to tell you that your show

1492
01:24:03,080 --> 01:24:11,160
Speaker 1: I thought it was neat. It calls her show neat.

1493
01:24:11,680 --> 01:24:14,040
Speaker 1: And the best part is that he walks away and

1494
01:24:14,120 --> 01:24:17,559
Speaker 1: she literally makes the vomit face, like she puts her

1495
01:24:17,560 --> 01:24:20,800
Speaker 1: finger in her mouth like vomit. She's like neat, Like

1496
01:24:20,880 --> 01:24:25,800
Speaker 1: she fucking destroys him, rail on him. I was like,

1497
01:24:26,800 --> 01:24:30,479
Speaker 1: they would never do that now, or anyone will do

1498
01:24:30,640 --> 01:24:31,040
Speaker 1: that now.

1499
01:24:31,200 --> 01:24:33,720
Speaker 2: If they did it, nobody would make the decision to

1500
01:24:33,880 --> 01:24:35,600
Speaker 2: keep it in the documentary.

1501
01:24:36,320 --> 01:24:40,280
Speaker 1: God, I was like, this is fucking incredible. I was like,

1502
01:24:40,439 --> 01:24:44,080
Speaker 1: I am so I am so lucky to have been

1503
01:24:44,120 --> 01:24:49,000
Speaker 1: a part of his generation that experienced this. The other

1504
01:24:49,120 --> 01:24:53,559
Speaker 1: part that is so shocking and maybe relevant to your

1505
01:24:53,600 --> 01:24:58,759
Speaker 1: interests certainly is the paigoal Amaldivar Antonio Bandera's part.

1506
01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:05,720
Speaker 2: This is where Madonna always flips me out, because she

1507
01:25:05,840 --> 01:25:08,519
Speaker 2: has her finger on the fucking pulse, or at least

1508
01:25:08,560 --> 01:25:11,719
Speaker 2: at this point she did. These were not big names

1509
01:25:11,720 --> 01:25:15,080
Speaker 2: in America yet, and she was like, I love the

1510
01:25:15,120 --> 01:25:19,160
Speaker 2: films of Alma Dovar, I am obsessed with Antonio Benderraz.

1511
01:25:19,400 --> 01:25:23,040
Speaker 2: She was ahead of the curve when it came to

1512
01:25:23,280 --> 01:25:27,640
Speaker 2: this kind of shit and made no bones about the

1513
01:25:27,680 --> 01:25:30,240
Speaker 2: fact that she wanted to fuck Antonio Benderaz and was

1514
01:25:31,120 --> 01:25:33,400
Speaker 2: rocked to her cord and realize he was not only married,

1515
01:25:33,400 --> 01:25:35,439
Speaker 2: but his wife was at this dinner that was being

1516
01:25:35,439 --> 01:25:36,320
Speaker 2: thrown in her honor.

1517
01:25:36,720 --> 01:25:41,799
Speaker 1: Oh my god, like incredible. First of all, just amazing

1518
01:25:41,840 --> 01:25:45,760
Speaker 1: to see both Pedro and Antonio in this era, in

1519
01:25:45,800 --> 01:25:50,040
Speaker 1: their high era of the nineties, Antonio was hot. Oh

1520
01:25:50,080 --> 01:25:52,760
Speaker 1: my god. I was like, I was like, Madonna, I'm

1521
01:25:52,840 --> 01:25:56,240
Speaker 1: with you, like we all are with you here. How

1522
01:25:56,360 --> 01:26:00,600
Speaker 1: still is still is? Oh my god, I'm still is.

1523
01:26:00,840 --> 01:26:03,559
Speaker 1: But it's that moment where it's kind of this like

1524
01:26:04,400 --> 01:26:07,479
Speaker 1: I don't know. I loved it because she kind of

1525
01:26:07,520 --> 01:26:10,120
Speaker 1: had this like I had that feeling of being in

1526
01:26:10,200 --> 01:26:12,320
Speaker 1: high school and being like I'm going to this party

1527
01:26:12,439 --> 01:26:14,519
Speaker 1: and like there's this boy that I like, Oh no,

1528
01:26:14,560 --> 01:26:17,000
Speaker 1: but the key showed up with a girl and I'm

1529
01:26:17,040 --> 01:26:20,880
Speaker 1: just humiliated and I'm gonna take my backup singer into

1530
01:26:20,960 --> 01:26:23,559
Speaker 1: the bathroom to have a little cry about it. And

1531
01:26:23,600 --> 01:26:27,280
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, this is happening to Madonna exactly.

1532
01:26:27,400 --> 01:26:30,400
Speaker 1: Donna exactly.

1533
01:26:31,760 --> 01:26:35,800
Speaker 2: It was so sweet. It was so funny and so

1534
01:26:35,840 --> 01:26:38,160
Speaker 2: sweet that she was just like, like you said, just

1535
01:26:38,200 --> 01:26:40,400
Speaker 2: like a little she was just like a teenager. It

1536
01:26:40,439 --> 01:26:42,320
Speaker 2: was very sweet, I know.

1537
01:26:42,760 --> 01:26:46,599
Speaker 1: And it just is like these moments make the movie

1538
01:26:46,640 --> 01:26:50,040
Speaker 1: for me because it really drops the veil of celebrity

1539
01:26:50,040 --> 01:26:52,200
Speaker 1: in this way that just doesn't exist anymore. Like I

1540
01:26:52,240 --> 01:26:54,639
Speaker 1: was like sitting here thinking I watched a three hour

1541
01:26:54,680 --> 01:26:58,759
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift documentary and listen if you're a swiftye, don't

1542
01:26:58,800 --> 01:27:02,000
Speaker 1: come for me. I'm I'm just telling you what I think. Like,

1543
01:27:03,000 --> 01:27:05,599
Speaker 1: you know, the thing that I had the most problems

1544
01:27:05,640 --> 01:27:08,800
Speaker 1: with that is that it didn't feel like it was anything.

1545
01:27:09,200 --> 01:27:11,400
Speaker 1: There was no information about her. It was just a

1546
01:27:11,479 --> 01:27:15,920
Speaker 1: straight up performance. There wasn't any like background like information.

1547
01:27:16,080 --> 01:27:18,360
Speaker 1: It was just like, like, can you imagine if Taylor

1548
01:27:18,360 --> 01:27:21,200
Speaker 1: Swift was like spilling the tea about some of these

1549
01:27:21,280 --> 01:27:24,519
Speaker 1: boys that she's dated, where she's going to a party

1550
01:27:24,600 --> 01:27:28,080
Speaker 1: and wanting to like hook up with Antonio Banderas, Like, no,

1551
01:27:28,280 --> 01:27:31,160
Speaker 1: they this would never happen, Like they never would let

1552
01:27:31,160 --> 01:27:33,200
Speaker 1: this happen. Never.

1553
01:27:33,439 --> 01:27:36,160
Speaker 2: And it's wild to walk away from a current doc

1554
01:27:36,200 --> 01:27:39,000
Speaker 2: and feel like I didn't learn anything about that person. Yes,

1555
01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:42,360
Speaker 2: and this is what these docs were for, these classic

1556
01:27:42,439 --> 01:27:45,519
Speaker 2: music docs. You got tea, you learned shit about the

1557
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:47,080
Speaker 2: people in them. Yes.

1558
01:27:47,680 --> 01:27:49,599
Speaker 1: And this is the thing about Madonna is that even

1559
01:27:49,640 --> 01:27:52,280
Speaker 1: though this is an old documentary at this point, like

1560
01:27:52,680 --> 01:27:57,000
Speaker 1: it's still like really hits. I mean, like again, I

1561
01:27:57,080 --> 01:28:00,960
Speaker 1: feel like she really like even though she is performing

1562
01:28:01,000 --> 01:28:05,880
Speaker 1: a personality and being a brat and being like, you know,

1563
01:28:06,920 --> 01:28:10,080
Speaker 1: a mom and a sister, and a lover and everybody

1564
01:28:10,120 --> 01:28:14,160
Speaker 1: to everyone she does feel. It feels authentically Madonna, and

1565
01:28:14,200 --> 01:28:17,040
Speaker 1: it's this type of Madonna that I actually missed, which

1566
01:28:18,080 --> 01:28:23,040
Speaker 1: because it's just like this this whole like vibe of

1567
01:28:23,080 --> 01:28:26,599
Speaker 1: her where she like includes everybody, and it's it's this

1568
01:28:26,840 --> 01:28:31,320
Speaker 1: like she's got this like sassy, sexy, flirty energy and

1569
01:28:31,400 --> 01:28:34,640
Speaker 1: she's on vacation with her gorgeous dancers and they're just

1570
01:28:34,680 --> 01:28:39,080
Speaker 1: like they're all like in sync and just like like

1571
01:28:39,320 --> 01:28:42,200
Speaker 1: they're in love with being hot and being young and

1572
01:28:42,240 --> 01:28:45,120
Speaker 1: being on tour with Madonna. I just was like, oh,

1573
01:28:45,400 --> 01:28:48,719
Speaker 1: I miss this. I miss this whole. Like the there's

1574
01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:52,960
Speaker 1: a montage set to Vogue right where it was just

1575
01:28:53,000 --> 01:28:55,679
Speaker 1: sort of like, yeah, glimpses of kind of like them

1576
01:28:55,720 --> 01:29:00,880
Speaker 1: being on vacation them you know, dance where she gets

1577
01:29:00,920 --> 01:29:04,040
Speaker 1: to kiss Matt Dillon. I was like, girl, I love this,

1578
01:29:04,280 --> 01:29:07,160
Speaker 1: like I love her whole life. And it felt so

1579
01:29:08,400 --> 01:29:11,200
Speaker 1: I don't know, just like it felt very free and

1580
01:29:11,439 --> 01:29:14,920
Speaker 1: like I said, it was very like flirty and sexual

1581
01:29:15,000 --> 01:29:16,760
Speaker 1: and ironic, and it was like, I don't know, they

1582
01:29:16,840 --> 01:29:20,759
Speaker 1: just felt very free and I miss that. It doesn't

1583
01:29:20,880 --> 01:29:24,439
Speaker 1: feel like that happens as much as it did.

1584
01:29:24,479 --> 01:29:28,360
Speaker 2: Back then No, and if it does, we we it

1585
01:29:28,400 --> 01:29:30,360
Speaker 2: doesn't happen in a public way. It's like, oh, I

1586
01:29:30,400 --> 01:29:31,920
Speaker 2: rented a house so I can hang out with my

1587
01:29:32,000 --> 01:29:35,280
Speaker 2: dancers and have a good time. And yes, nobody will

1588
01:29:35,320 --> 01:29:37,439
Speaker 2: ever see or know which is its own special thing

1589
01:29:37,560 --> 01:29:39,640
Speaker 2: like of course, but it's we don't ever get to

1590
01:29:39,640 --> 01:29:43,040
Speaker 2: see a more gentle or fun side of a lot

1591
01:29:43,080 --> 01:29:43,680
Speaker 2: of celebrities.

1592
01:29:43,760 --> 01:29:46,640
Speaker 1: I think now, yes, and like her fucking like, you know,

1593
01:29:46,840 --> 01:29:50,400
Speaker 1: opening the like the French doors to her balcony for

1594
01:29:50,439 --> 01:29:53,439
Speaker 1: her hotel room, and I mean, there is nothing more

1595
01:29:53,439 --> 01:29:59,439
Speaker 1: glamorous than sitting in a penthouse, a European penthouse hotel,

1596
01:30:00,120 --> 01:30:02,400
Speaker 1: with like a towel on your head, in a giant

1597
01:30:02,479 --> 01:30:07,160
Speaker 1: trot cloth robe, eaten fucking room service. I'm like, I

1598
01:30:07,200 --> 01:30:08,720
Speaker 1: love this, I love all of it.

1599
01:30:09,400 --> 01:30:11,920
Speaker 2: But that again, that is also a hilarious part of

1600
01:30:11,960 --> 01:30:14,559
Speaker 2: the film to me because earlier, like she does redeem

1601
01:30:14,600 --> 01:30:19,519
Speaker 2: herself or have this European French door balcony moment, but

1602
01:30:19,640 --> 01:30:23,559
Speaker 2: before that, you see her sitting open legged on a couch,

1603
01:30:23,760 --> 01:30:26,240
Speaker 2: chunkin soup, on the phone with her dad and she's like.

1604
01:30:26,160 --> 01:30:28,840
Speaker 1: I'm not when you're gonna come, what showing you what

1605
01:30:28,960 --> 01:30:29,280
Speaker 1: to come.

1606
01:30:29,200 --> 01:30:32,680
Speaker 2: To, Like she's just going, she's just doing it, Like

1607
01:30:32,680 --> 01:30:33,960
Speaker 2: this is just how she talks to her dad on

1608
01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:36,799
Speaker 2: the phone. It's so unglamorous, it's lovely.

1609
01:30:37,320 --> 01:30:40,000
Speaker 1: The Detroit popped out at that moment. Yeah, it's like.

1610
01:30:40,280 --> 01:30:42,799
Speaker 1: That's the thing about Madonna is that she was always

1611
01:30:42,920 --> 01:30:46,920
Speaker 1: like high low right, like high glamour, but then also

1612
01:30:47,200 --> 01:30:49,880
Speaker 1: like a girl from the neighborhood, you know. And she

1613
01:30:50,160 --> 01:30:52,600
Speaker 1: was Italian and she was you know, she had her

1614
01:30:52,640 --> 01:30:54,880
Speaker 1: whole vibe and I don't know, I just appreciated the

1615
01:30:54,920 --> 01:30:55,599
Speaker 1: shit out of it.

1616
01:30:55,800 --> 01:30:58,559
Speaker 2: I also love little moments where like she reconnected with

1617
01:30:59,240 --> 01:31:02,720
Speaker 2: a childhood friend and the friend immediately was like, can

1618
01:31:02,760 --> 01:31:05,800
Speaker 2: you be my child's godmother? And she's like, let's talk

1619
01:31:05,800 --> 01:31:07,559
Speaker 2: about that later. Yeah.

1620
01:31:07,680 --> 01:31:10,760
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, this is this this woman taught her how to

1621
01:31:10,800 --> 01:31:13,880
Speaker 1: like do like she was like her first you know,

1622
01:31:14,040 --> 01:31:19,559
Speaker 1: like foray into like her sexuality, and she's.

1623
01:31:19,400 --> 01:31:21,280
Speaker 2: Like, let me think of it. I mean, just imagine

1624
01:31:21,320 --> 01:31:23,479
Speaker 2: how many people have asked Madonna to be their kid's

1625
01:31:23,520 --> 01:31:28,640
Speaker 2: godparent just for the financial aspect of it alone. She's like,

1626
01:31:28,720 --> 01:31:31,320
Speaker 2: I know what this is and the woman was like,

1627
01:31:31,400 --> 01:31:33,200
Speaker 2: it's not even about God. And she's like yeah, but

1628
01:31:33,320 --> 01:31:34,920
Speaker 2: I know what it is about, So let's just talk

1629
01:31:34,920 --> 01:31:35,639
Speaker 2: about this later.

1630
01:31:36,240 --> 01:31:40,800
Speaker 1: Yes, I listen. I could really go on about this.

1631
01:31:40,840 --> 01:31:45,240
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, it feels like this documentary is absolutely

1632
01:31:45,360 --> 01:31:49,559
Speaker 1: steeped in my childhood nostalgia for Madonna. My favorite Madonna

1633
01:31:50,280 --> 01:31:52,880
Speaker 1: favorite it's it feels ranslight was.

1634
01:31:52,880 --> 01:31:56,559
Speaker 2: Good, but this was This was Madonna height height.

1635
01:31:56,800 --> 01:32:00,880
Speaker 1: Madonna for me absolutely could not be more obsessed with her.

1636
01:32:01,479 --> 01:32:04,240
Speaker 1: I mean, we've talked about this on previous podcasts, but

1637
01:32:04,320 --> 01:32:07,160
Speaker 1: you know, she absolutely, one hundred percent taught us about sex.

1638
01:32:07,920 --> 01:32:14,840
Speaker 1: I don't think any anyone celebrity informed my views on

1639
01:32:14,880 --> 01:32:18,000
Speaker 1: sexuality like Madonna did. I honestly believe.

1640
01:32:17,800 --> 01:32:21,559
Speaker 2: That I would absolutely agree. No, I mean not just

1641
01:32:21,680 --> 01:32:26,000
Speaker 2: physically showing us what it looked like to hump and

1642
01:32:26,040 --> 01:32:30,080
Speaker 2: to go down on a dick. Like I knew what

1643
01:32:30,080 --> 01:32:32,720
Speaker 2: blowjobs were, I had never seen what it could look

1644
01:32:32,840 --> 01:32:34,720
Speaker 2: like until this fucking movie.

1645
01:32:35,200 --> 01:32:37,639
Speaker 1: Oh my god. There's like the part where like she's

1646
01:32:37,680 --> 01:32:41,360
Speaker 1: doing the performance and she's like jerking off that incense

1647
01:32:41,760 --> 01:32:46,160
Speaker 1: thermule what it's called, where I was like, holy shit.

1648
01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:49,840
Speaker 2: Just like whatever mood hits her, She's just like I'll

1649
01:32:49,840 --> 01:32:51,479
Speaker 2: do whatever, whatever it feels good.

1650
01:32:51,479 --> 01:32:55,759
Speaker 1: In the moment. Yeah, and then like the Canadian police

1651
01:32:55,800 --> 01:32:59,400
Speaker 1: are there, They're like, she's dangerous. The Vatican's like you

1652
01:32:59,439 --> 01:33:02,640
Speaker 1: cannot play hear you know, It's like she was dangerous.

1653
01:33:02,640 --> 01:33:04,320
Speaker 1: She was dangerous, but like.

1654
01:33:04,840 --> 01:33:10,880
Speaker 2: The quote unquote fascist police of Toronto. Yeah, and that's

1655
01:33:11,160 --> 01:33:13,240
Speaker 2: that again. Is also what makes me think I thought

1656
01:33:13,280 --> 01:33:15,280
Speaker 2: about this heavily while I was watching it this time.

1657
01:33:15,320 --> 01:33:18,360
Speaker 2: I've never really interrogated this before. I do think this

1658
01:33:18,520 --> 01:33:22,599
Speaker 2: film has a space in the feminist canon for exactly

1659
01:33:22,640 --> 01:33:27,280
Speaker 2: those reasons. To watch her rail against making her art

1660
01:33:27,280 --> 01:33:29,400
Speaker 2: on her own terms, whatever you think of her or

1661
01:33:29,439 --> 01:33:32,240
Speaker 2: her music, to watch her, to watch her as a

1662
01:33:32,520 --> 01:33:36,679
Speaker 2: business woman and the most popular artist at the moment,

1663
01:33:37,120 --> 01:33:39,280
Speaker 2: have to talk to men and say this is what

1664
01:33:39,360 --> 01:33:42,680
Speaker 2: I want and then watch this litany of men say no,

1665
01:33:42,800 --> 01:33:45,000
Speaker 2: you don't want that. We're not doing that. Like again,

1666
01:33:45,640 --> 01:33:49,000
Speaker 2: the most famous Beyonce has been through this as well

1667
01:33:49,040 --> 01:33:53,120
Speaker 2: famously in recent years, where you're telling me, as the

1668
01:33:53,120 --> 01:33:57,240
Speaker 2: most powerful woman currently on the planet, that I can't

1669
01:33:57,280 --> 01:33:59,720
Speaker 2: have what I need, and just watching her try to

1670
01:34:00,680 --> 01:34:04,440
Speaker 2: coerce and and again to realize, like this is Madonna.

1671
01:34:04,560 --> 01:34:07,760
Speaker 2: Madonna has these high school dating moments. Madonna has to

1672
01:34:07,800 --> 01:34:11,160
Speaker 2: talk to men who don't listen to her right, like

1673
01:34:11,200 --> 01:34:14,120
Speaker 2: this movie one has a space in the feminist cannon

1674
01:34:14,160 --> 01:34:14,360
Speaker 2: to me.

1675
01:34:14,800 --> 01:34:18,160
Speaker 1: Oh, I completely agree. And it's it's like and it's

1676
01:34:18,240 --> 01:34:22,759
Speaker 1: like you're watching, You're watching like a late Leo early

1677
01:34:22,880 --> 01:34:25,559
Speaker 1: virgo at work, like you're just like, yo, she is

1678
01:34:25,600 --> 01:34:29,360
Speaker 1: a boss. She is not suffering fools. She's straight up

1679
01:34:29,400 --> 01:34:32,200
Speaker 1: telling people it's my way or else, like she tells

1680
01:34:32,240 --> 01:34:34,000
Speaker 1: all of her At one point, she's like you, like,

1681
01:34:34,400 --> 01:34:37,240
Speaker 1: we're gonna respect women here if you do not get

1682
01:34:37,240 --> 01:34:40,680
Speaker 1: the fuck out of here, you know, yep, which is

1683
01:34:40,760 --> 01:34:46,200
Speaker 1: like wonderful to see, you know, revolutionary. Yeah, and so yeah,

1684
01:34:46,400 --> 01:34:49,160
Speaker 1: I completely agree with you. I just I can't tell

1685
01:34:49,200 --> 01:34:53,679
Speaker 1: you how much I love this documentary still. I feel

1686
01:34:53,680 --> 01:34:57,599
Speaker 1: like it's I mean again, it is shocking. You will

1687
01:34:57,600 --> 01:35:00,360
Speaker 1: be shocked by it even in the modern context, Like

1688
01:35:00,400 --> 01:35:03,080
Speaker 1: you'll be shocked by it because it's a documentary from

1689
01:35:03,160 --> 01:35:05,120
Speaker 1: ninety one, but you will also be shocked at it

1690
01:35:05,479 --> 01:35:08,400
Speaker 1: by it because it is so bold, still very very

1691
01:35:08,439 --> 01:35:11,920
Speaker 1: bold to this day. I don't know, I mean, I really,

1692
01:35:12,000 --> 01:35:15,559
Speaker 1: like I said, I could continue down this road, but

1693
01:35:15,720 --> 01:35:20,480
Speaker 1: I mean, ultimately it is completely steeped in my nostalgia

1694
01:35:20,800 --> 01:35:24,680
Speaker 1: my childhood. It brings me back to an era of

1695
01:35:24,720 --> 01:35:29,000
Speaker 1: the nineties that I just miss. I miss the kind

1696
01:35:29,080 --> 01:35:31,599
Speaker 1: of I don't know, the sexual politics of the nineties.

1697
01:35:31,600 --> 01:35:36,320
Speaker 1: It like it was very much more simpler time back then, obviously. Yeah,

1698
01:35:36,320 --> 01:35:39,120
Speaker 1: but the energy of this of this film with like

1699
01:35:39,160 --> 01:35:43,400
Speaker 1: her dancers, it feels very like Fellini in a way.

1700
01:35:43,479 --> 01:35:46,560
Speaker 1: Like it's it is like a Jois de vivra y

1701
01:35:47,160 --> 01:35:51,320
Speaker 1: that I feel like I don't see as much these

1702
01:35:51,439 --> 01:35:53,400
Speaker 1: days as you did back then.

1703
01:35:53,600 --> 01:35:56,360
Speaker 2: I don't completely completely it was. It was unique and

1704
01:35:56,479 --> 01:35:59,280
Speaker 2: wonderful and takes me back to a very specific time.

1705
01:35:59,680 --> 01:36:02,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I love this week.

1706
01:36:02,520 --> 01:36:03,800
Speaker 2: This is great choice week.

1707
01:36:04,640 --> 01:36:05,400
Speaker 1: I love it.

1708
01:36:06,600 --> 01:36:08,519
Speaker 2: Next week is going to be wild too, But let's

1709
01:36:08,520 --> 01:36:10,479
Speaker 2: give you some info before we get to next weeks.

1710
01:36:10,680 --> 01:36:16,640
Speaker 1: Yes, my god, me too. Every time I look at

1711
01:36:16,680 --> 01:36:23,599
Speaker 1: the theme for next week, I start laughing. Well, listen,

1712
01:36:23,600 --> 01:36:25,519
Speaker 1: if you want to email us, folks, we are at

1713
01:36:25,680 --> 01:36:27,519
Speaker 1: I saw what you did pot at gmail dot com.

1714
01:36:28,320 --> 01:36:30,840
Speaker 1: We also have a peel box if you want to

1715
01:36:30,840 --> 01:36:34,680
Speaker 1: send us handwritten letters and uh yeah, that's it.

1716
01:36:36,280 --> 01:36:38,240
Speaker 2: You can find the address for the po box on

1717
01:36:38,280 --> 01:36:40,240
Speaker 2: our link tree, which is linked on all of our

1718
01:36:40,280 --> 01:36:43,400
Speaker 2: social media we are at I saw pot on Instagram,

1719
01:36:43,439 --> 01:36:45,920
Speaker 2: Blue Sky and Twitter. You can also leave us a

1720
01:36:46,000 --> 01:36:48,640
Speaker 2: voicemail now to play on the show. All you have

1721
01:36:48,680 --> 01:36:50,679
Speaker 2: to do is record a voice memo on your phone.

1722
01:36:50,760 --> 01:36:52,479
Speaker 2: Email it too, I saw what you did pot at

1723
01:36:52,479 --> 01:36:54,800
Speaker 2: gmail dot com. Make it sixty seconds or less and

1724
01:36:54,840 --> 01:36:56,240
Speaker 2: record in a quiet space.

1725
01:36:57,080 --> 01:36:59,400
Speaker 1: Absolutely right, and we have merch. If you go to

1726
01:36:59,520 --> 01:37:01,840
Speaker 1: exactly right store dot com you will find it.

1727
01:37:02,360 --> 01:37:04,439
Speaker 2: And don't forget our bonus episodes. They drop on the

1728
01:37:04,479 --> 01:37:07,400
Speaker 2: main feed every third Thursday of the month.

1729
01:37:10,120 --> 01:37:13,240
Speaker 1: You wanna announce the movies for next week. The title

1730
01:37:13,280 --> 01:37:17,400
Speaker 1: a load is making me laugh. Oh my god, Ah,

1731
01:37:17,479 --> 01:37:18,439
Speaker 1: I totally do.

1732
01:37:19,200 --> 01:37:22,760
Speaker 2: Our movies next week for your homework are Rebel Without

1733
01:37:22,800 --> 01:37:25,759
Speaker 2: a Cause from nineteen fifty five and The Last Picture

1734
01:37:25,800 --> 01:37:27,160
Speaker 2: Show from nineteen seventy one.

1735
01:37:27,960 --> 01:37:31,920
Speaker 1: Wow, a couple of bangers is gonna be a barn burner.

1736
01:37:32,160 --> 01:37:35,120
Speaker 2: I think you know gonna make rights.

1737
01:37:35,439 --> 01:37:39,320
Speaker 1: Daniel as always a fucking pleasure doing this podcast with you.

1738
01:37:39,840 --> 01:37:43,840
Speaker 2: A distinct pleasure. I'm so glad you're out of your

1739
01:37:43,880 --> 01:37:45,720
Speaker 2: capitalist depression.

1740
01:37:47,560 --> 01:37:54,800
Speaker 1: Me too, Me too, Bye.

1741
01:37:57,080 --> 01:37:59,759
Speaker 2: This has been an exactly right production. Our senior producer

1742
01:37:59,760 --> 01:38:03,640
Speaker 2: is O'Brien. Episode mixing and theme music by Tom Bryfogel,

1743
01:38:03,960 --> 01:38:07,960
Speaker 2: artwork by Garrett Ross. Our executive producers are Georgia Hartstart Caring,

1744
01:38:08,000 --> 01:38:10,479
Speaker 2: kil Gareff, and Daniel Kramer. You can follow us on

1745
01:38:10,560 --> 01:38:13,519
Speaker 2: Instagram and Twitter at I Saw pod, and you can

1746
01:38:13,560 --> 01:38:15,840
Speaker 2: email us at I Saw What You Did Pod at

1747
01:38:15,880 --> 01:38:16,280
Speaker 2: gmail