1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Bloomberg, Audio studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:10,559 Speaker 2: Prime Minister Spain thank you for talking to Bloomberg. It's 3 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 2: a pleasure to have you. It's a pleasure. I just looked. 4 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 2: Out of all Europe's leaders, you are the one who 5 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 2: seems most prepared to disagree with President Trump. You champion 6 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 2: the cause of recognizing Palestine, you push you pushed against 7 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 2: the five percent limit on defense spending, also been very 8 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 2: close to China. I mean, when you heard his speech yesterday, 9 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 2: did you which seemed to depict Europe as kind of hellhole, 10 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 2: did you think that was Do you think that was 11 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 2: aimed at you? 12 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: Well, I think i'm respectfully at disagree with President Trump 13 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 1: a statement because you know, he took migration and climate change, 14 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: as I would say, the. 15 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 3: Major challenges that we have to fight against for. 16 00:00:57,440 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: And I said, well, look, if you took the experience 17 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: of his pain is the contrary. So thanks to claim 18 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: to these green policies, we have dropped the electricity prices 19 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: since twenty seventeen till now by fifty percent, so that 20 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: enables us to gain competitiveness, and thanks to that, we 21 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: are witnessing this extraordinary outcome of the economic growth in Spain, 22 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: we represent thirty percent of the total economic growth of 23 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 1: the European Union. And when it comes to migration, in 24 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:36,039 Speaker 1: the last seven years we have received two million migration migrants, 25 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 1: while at the same time we have dropped by forty 26 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: percent the unemployment rate. 27 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 3: So only all, what. 28 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: I'm trying to say is that green transition and migration 29 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: when it comes on regular basis are positive for the 30 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: economic development of a country. 31 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 2: Do you think your fellow leaders in Europe could be 32 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 2: braver about making those comments. 33 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: I think that we that we need to keep Transatlantic 34 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: bond and to strengthen that Transtalentic bond. 35 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 3: It is in the. 36 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: True that we need to combine it with other policies 37 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: such as, for instance, trade diversification. That is why we 38 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: are we've been very vocal in reaching this agreement between 39 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: the European Union and Americasur, which it would be definitely 40 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 1: a game changer in in our economic ties with other 41 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: regions of the world. And second, what we do, what 42 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: we need to do within the European Union is to 43 00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: do our homework, as the former central banker Maria Draghi 44 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 1: always remind us, and that means that we need to 45 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: deepen single market, that we need to review our competition 46 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 1: policy in order to scale up a big companies in 47 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: Europe and try to be you know, as good as 48 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: competitive as a global corporation are in in the U. 49 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 3: S and other and other parts of the World's. 50 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 2: Very interesting that you look at what's happened. Your economy 51 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 2: has grown very well two point seven percent. You look 52 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 2: at what's happening in other countries on the periphery, like Greece, 53 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 2: there is a very interesting thing. A few years ago 54 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 2: we were used to saying the periphery is the problem 55 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:16,799 Speaker 2: and the core is great. Now it's the other way around. France, Germany, 56 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 2: Britain barely growing at all. Do you think it is 57 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: now the center of Europe that is the problem in 58 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 2: the economy. 59 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 3: No, not at all. 60 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: I mean Germany is a big country, big economy, also France, 61 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: and we always suspect a positive let's say, dynamic in 62 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:37,119 Speaker 1: their economy is that it isn't it true that from 63 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: the south we can contribute to the economic growth of 64 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: the European Union. So for instance, when you see that 65 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 1: sixty percent of the electricity generation in Spain comes from 66 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: renewable sources, that means that we have a potentiality that 67 00:03:56,240 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: we can contribute to the autonomous static autonomy. 68 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 2: Is exposing that you to France. 69 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, okay, we need to interconnect better our greeds, 70 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: but we are We're trying to convince our friends in 71 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: France to do so. So only know what I'm trying 72 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 1: to say is that if you see the economic figures 73 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: of the self in Europe, especially Spain, that represents and 74 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: as said before, thirty percent of the total economic outcome 75 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: of economic outcome of the European Union. That means that 76 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 1: we have achieved many reforms that were demanded by the. 77 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 3: European Commission over the last years. 78 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 1: So we have achieved to reform our labor market, our 79 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 1: patient system, our educational system, and also our energy policy 80 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: and digitalization, along with the contribution of migration. So it 81 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:56,040 Speaker 1: is true that these pillars also show that the economic 82 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: background or pillars of Spain are quite solid if you 83 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: compare to previous periods such as the one before the 84 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: financial crisis. 85 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 2: Also a selfish question from the point of view all 86 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 2: the foreign investors looking at this, Many people want to 87 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 2: invest in Spain for all the reasons you said, But 88 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 2: you want to introduce one hundred percent tax on them 89 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 2: if they want to buy a house there a second time. 90 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:19,840 Speaker 3: No, not at all, not at all. 91 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: What we need to face is a real challenge that 92 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: I think that across Europe and also in England in 93 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: the UK you're suffering, especially the youth, but not only youth, 94 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: which is the lack of or the impossibility to access 95 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: to a house or to emancipate in the case of 96 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: our youth. What we did is for all British people 97 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 1: or European people that want to buy a house for living, 98 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: they won't pay taxes. 99 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, but this is the point. 100 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: We need also to understand that we need to solve 101 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: a problem of housing that we have in Spain. But 102 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 1: all in all, if you see now the figures of 103 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: the real estate sector and how we are speeding the 104 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: process of construction in Spain is quite amazing. Nowadays we 105 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: have increased by sixty three percent construction of how let's say, 106 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: public housing, whilst the private sector has increased the like 107 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 1: thirteen percent during the last year. 108 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 2: It's a bit about the relationship to the economy and politics. 109 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 2: The economy seems to be going very well for you. 110 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 2: In politics, it's harder your party is behind the Patty 111 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 2: do popular. We also got Vox coming up this much 112 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 2: more right wing outfits and in the current polls you 113 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 2: would lose if the election. What do you think the 114 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 2: problem is? You've got a good economy, unlike most other 115 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 2: European prime ministers, and yet you're still behind. 116 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 3: Pulls that polls. I mean, of course you have to 117 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,160 Speaker 3: look into it. You have to see. 118 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: What I am defending is that unfortunately we're seeing not 119 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: only in Spain but across Europe political collapse of the 120 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: center right traditional parties, which by the way, it started 121 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: after the financial crisis, with the failure of governments, with 122 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: all this rhetoric of austerity UH, banking UH and the 123 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: financial rescue that we had to pay with taxes all 124 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: around Europe. And what you see now from the center 125 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: right is that they are copying not only the way 126 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: of doing politics of oi right, but also the contents. 127 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: So you see now that they are like identifying migration 128 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: with insecurity, which is a fake. 129 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 3: It is not true. 130 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: And and by the way, as I said before, when 131 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: when you when when you see the figures in Spain, 132 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: you can see that we had a we we have 133 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: the contribution of migration, but at the same time, we're 134 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: reducing unemployment rates in Spain and our sectors such as construction, 135 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: agro industry, or social services or tourism, which in Spain 136 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: are quite important. We're up to twenty thirty percent of 137 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: the total workers comes from different countries and other Spain. 138 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: So what we need to do is to face that 139 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: we need migration. But for that migration, what we need 140 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: to open is a path of regular migration. And this 141 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: is what we are doing with many countries in Latin America, 142 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: also with the US administration, with the previous administration, we 143 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: reach a very interesting program in order to have this 144 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: circular migration coming from the US and of. 145 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 3: Course some countries in North Africa. 146 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:56,079 Speaker 1: But in all the contribution of migration to the economic 147 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,920 Speaker 1: growth in Spain is quite quite positive. 148 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,839 Speaker 2: A few bridling for that fight. So you will, you 149 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 2: will definitely lead the Socialists in twenty twenty seven into 150 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 2: the election. 151 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, I will do it, for sure. 152 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 1: This is something that I have already spoken with by 153 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 1: family and with by party, and if they allow me, 154 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: I'm confident that we can repeat a majority and to 155 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 1: keep the work ahead. Not but let me add, coming 156 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: back to migration, that the dilemma that all Western societies 157 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: we're facing is whether we open up and grow or 158 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: we close off and shrink. This is the real dilemma 159 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: that we need to face. So the challenge that we 160 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: have within the Epean society is how do we integrate 161 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:44,800 Speaker 1: this migration. 162 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 2: So you think it's easier in Spain because you've got 163 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 2: a lot of people from Latin America where everyone speaks 164 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 2: the same language, that that's at least part of the 165 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 2: argument why you might. 166 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 3: Have been better. 167 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,959 Speaker 1: So when you listen to some center right parties and 168 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:00,839 Speaker 1: the far right there saying not what we we need 169 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 1: to expel all these migrants come into our Okay, So 170 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: what we do with demographics, because either you have natalis 171 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: how do you say family policies? Yes, class migration, but 172 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 1: they don't propose anything in these two policies, no migrants 173 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: and less welfare state and therefore less family policies. Uh, 174 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:38,199 Speaker 1: and that means social services, wealth, healthcare and social security 175 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: and so on and so forth. 176 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,719 Speaker 3: So what I'm trying to say is that if we don't. 177 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: Have this contribution of migration, what we will face in 178 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: the coming years in Europe is that we have anest technicians. 179 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: We don't we won't have the capacity to growth and 180 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: therefore there would be more cuts in our welfare state. 181 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: So so this is this is something that we need 182 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: to explain to our citizens that if we particulate a 183 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:12,839 Speaker 1: positive migration policy, that would be for the good of 184 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: the Europeans and the Western societies. So, just to give 185 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: you a figure, ninety four percent of the total migrants 186 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 1: that are living nowadays in Spain came from regular let's 187 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 1: say systems, and they are they came on legal basis. 188 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 1: So we're talking about only six percent and this is 189 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: this is the reality. So I think that we need 190 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 1: to fight and to give a positive, let's say message 191 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: about the contribution of migration to our societies and to 192 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:47,439 Speaker 1: our prosperity.