Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,
Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of
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Speaker 1: Everything.
Speaker 3: Good morning, everybody, Happy Thursday.
Speaker 2: We have an amazing debate special for everybody today.
Speaker 3: What do we have, Crystal, That's right.
Speaker 1: We've got all of the biggest moments, all of the
Speaker 1: worst moments, all of the cringiest moments.
Speaker 3: The worst ones would be the whole thing that it
Speaker 3: wasn't really.
Speaker 1: A moment, it was just the fact that had happened
Speaker 1: at all. We've got Ryan and Emily coming in studio
Speaker 1: to talk about it. We also are going to talk
Speaker 1: about a couple other stories, including updates on what's going
Speaker 1: on with Bob Menendez and questions over whether he may
Speaker 1: have been they may have been attempting to recruit him
Speaker 1: as the Egyptian government as an intelligence asset. We've also
Speaker 1: got big update for sober on the dress code situation.
Speaker 1: Our long national nightmare is over, thank god, the most
Speaker 1: important issue in this town. So Raach bring all of
Speaker 1: that down for you. We've also got Jake Huger is
Speaker 1: going to be here in studio talking about his book
Speaker 1: and also talking about, you know, the future for Joe
Speaker 1: Biden the Democratic Party. So excited to have him joined
Speaker 1: us as.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's going to be a lot of fun. We
Speaker 2: just want to go ahead and say thank you to
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Speaker 1: It's the least we can do, given the state of
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Speaker 3: That's correct. Okay, let's get to the actual debate.
Speaker 2: So we thought that you know, for many of you,
Speaker 2: if you didn't actually spend any of the time going
Speaker 2: through this and all that, we wanted to give you
Speaker 2: a substituive enough recap to be able to take away
Speaker 2: most of the awful parts, which is most of what
Speaker 2: the two hours was. Let's go ahe and put this
Speaker 2: up there on the screen just to give everybody an idea.
Speaker 3: This was the overall speaking time.
Speaker 2: So what we have here is Ron DeSantis clocked in
Speaker 2: at twelve minutes and twenty seven seconds. Is a big
Speaker 2: change from last time around. Vivid Ramaswami at eleven minutes
Speaker 2: and fifty three. Here's the big change, Crystal ten minutes
Speaker 2: and forty two. Tim Scott tried to have a big night, try,
Speaker 2: I think being the operative word. Chris Christy ten minutes
Speaker 2: and thirty two seconds, Mike Pence at nine thirty five,
Speaker 2: Nicky Haley at nine oh five, and Doug derk Bergham
Speaker 2: at seven thirty five, despite certainly not for his best efforts,
Speaker 2: because that man was interrupting left and right.
Speaker 3: And that's also why it's a little even difficult.
Speaker 2: Almost honestly to talk about the speaking time, because how
Speaker 2: can you count it when they're all talking over each other?
Speaker 2: And I think that'll be a common theme of what
Speaker 2: we talk about today on substance alone, of course for
Speaker 2: our show, but really for the whole nation. People wanted
Speaker 2: to say, what do these people have to say about
Speaker 2: the UAW strike And there were some revealing answers and
Speaker 2: moments from that, and we'll break it down on the
Speaker 2: other side.
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.
Speaker 4: We should look back at the first bill in Congress
Speaker 4: under Joe Biden. The first bill had eighty six billion
Speaker 4: dollars for the union pensions. Because they continue to over
Speaker 4: promise yet under deliver. One of the challenges that we
Speaker 4: have in the current negotiations is that they want four
Speaker 4: day French work weeks, but more money. They want more
Speaker 4: benefits working fewer hours. That is simply not going to stand.
Speaker 4: I'll say this, Joe Biden should not be on the
Speaker 4: picket line. He should be on the southern border working
Speaker 4: to close our southern border because it is unsafe, wide open.
Speaker 5: And secure patience for the union bosses. I think that's
Speaker 5: where he and I actually have a common view. I
Speaker 5: do have a lot of sympathy for the workers. However,
Speaker 5: people are going through real hardship in this country. I've
Speaker 5: been through hardship growing up. My father stared down layoff
Speaker 5: said GE under Jack Welch's tenure at the GE plant
Speaker 5: in Evendale, Ohio. My mom had to work overtime in
Speaker 5: nursing homes in southwest Ohio to make ends meet and
Speaker 5: pay off our home loan. So I understand that hardship
Speaker 5: is not.
Speaker 3: A choice, but victimhood is a choice.
Speaker 5: Choose to be victorious in the United States of America.
Speaker 3: That was the rhetorical difference between the two.
Speaker 2: Crystal tim Scott kind of bringing up basically the you
Speaker 2: know he already said He's like, well, if you're a
Speaker 2: strong strike, you should be fired. Nicki Haley back that
Speaker 2: Doug Bergham took a little bit of the Trump line,
Speaker 2: mostly in terms of the electric vehicles.
Speaker 3: Viveg I think maybe the.
Speaker 2: Only candidate on the stage to say I sympathized with
Speaker 2: the first demands, of course, not coming out and endorsing
Speaker 2: the cause whatsoever. It's interesting, you know where we can
Speaker 2: talk about it now. American Compass, our great friend or
Speaker 2: in cast of the show, put out some new polling
Speaker 2: about how Republicans feel about unions, and actually I thought
Speaker 2: that the Vivik's answer probably split the difference at the best,
Speaker 2: so Republican voters that they found in their poll forty
Speaker 2: one percent had an approval rating outright for unions, and
Speaker 2: I think it was fifty six percent. That's actually a
Speaker 2: huge sea change considering that one percent of elected Republicans
Speaker 2: are against unions. But considering like where that split is,
Speaker 2: and even just in terms of general independent v or
Speaker 2: has Vivig tried to split the difference between the traditional
Speaker 2: Republican line and the emotional sympathy. I guess to what
Speaker 2: they are asking for, Yeah, but in.
Speaker 1: Terms of policy, is not like any of them are
Speaker 1: actually different from each other with regards to unions as
Speaker 1: far as we know. And so yeah, I mean, this
Speaker 1: is the extent of the quote unquote populisce shift in
Speaker 1: the Republican Party being willing to you know, sort of
Speaker 1: say like I have a little bit of empathy for
Speaker 1: the workers, even as your continuing it's about the same
Speaker 1: like corporate talking points about quote unquote union bosses. But
Speaker 1: I guess that is a step in the right direction
Speaker 1: as opposed to Tim Scott, who would not only want
Speaker 1: to fire the workers, but want to allow them to
Speaker 1: suffer in their old age with no pension after Wall
Speaker 1: Street absolutely destroyed these pension funds during the two thousand
Speaker 1: and eight crisis. That pension thing, I know, it irritates
Speaker 1: you too. It irritates me so much because actually the
Speaker 1: issue is that they didn't bail out these pension funds
Speaker 1: sooner after a bunch of Wall Street ghules basically tanked
Speaker 1: the Central States pensions. I mean, what he's calling for
Speaker 1: is it's like, you know, retirees to suffer and die
Speaker 1: penniless after they've promised a decent pension. So anyway, that's
Speaker 1: just like particular point of contention for me. But you know,
Speaker 1: you don't have anybody on that stage who's willing to
Speaker 1: actually overtly say I back the workers and I back
Speaker 1: their claims. It's all just rhetorical shifts, okay, But no
Speaker 1: real substantive difference from the trajectory of Republican policy over
Speaker 1: many decades, which is something that we'll see too in
Speaker 1: terms of Trump's comments and trump'speech that we'll talk to
Speaker 1: Ryan Ami.
Speaker 3: We're going to talk about that in a little bit.
Speaker 2: You're right, I mean, on the Tim Scott thing, it's
Speaker 2: just one of the most dishonest things I've honestly ever heard,
Speaker 2: because he's basically blaming the unions for not having their
Speaker 2: pensions be one hundred percent. One of the reasons why
Speaker 2: the pensions are underfunded with the mandate is because, as
Speaker 2: you said in two thousand and eight, they were absolutely
Speaker 2: destroyed and had to take a haircut after their hedge
Speaker 2: fund managers and others, and their benefit managers and some
Speaker 2: of the other financiers that were involved in the process
Speaker 2: gambled with their funds, and a lot of that even
Speaker 2: traces back to the fact that many pensions had these
Speaker 2: rules in place. You know, we can go all big
Speaker 2: short for a while and they're like, okay, you can't
Speaker 2: reinvest in anything, and so there's a triple A rated
Speaker 2: or whatever. But when the rating system, though, was rigged,
Speaker 2: these poor pensioners had their money completely wiped out. And
Speaker 2: then that happened again actually in twenty twenty. And look,
Speaker 2: I think public sector union and discussion of all that
Speaker 2: can be a separate thing. But we are talking here
Speaker 2: about hard working retirees who it's not that the union
Speaker 2: promised them.
Speaker 3: By the way, the company also promised them.
Speaker 2: What this was, and the American finance system absolutely wrecked it.
Speaker 3: That's not the union's fault.
Speaker 2: If anything, he's making an argument for much more stringent
Speaker 2: regulation whenever it comes to management of institutional funds, of
Speaker 2: which so many hardworking people were lying.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, let me one more.
Speaker 1: Thing on this, because this really gets under my skin.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So the backstory here is that the Central States Pension Fund.
Speaker 1: This is for two. So we're talking mostly about truckers,
Speaker 1: truck drivers, you know, the ups workers, et cetera. And
Speaker 1: because there had been so much like corruption and mob
Speaker 1: ties whatever with the teamsters, they had been under government decree,
Speaker 1: so the government was actually closely scrutinizing watching these pension
Speaker 1: funds and put these Wall Street gules in charge of
Speaker 1: it that then gambled with the funds. And of course
Speaker 1: they have all these incentives rather than putting the money
Speaker 1: in things that are going to be relatively safe, to
Speaker 1: make these big bets because they get bigger fees when
Speaker 1: they do this. And this is a consistent problem that
Speaker 1: we see with pensions, and it all goes back to
Speaker 1: Wall Street Creed. This pension performed so poorly under the
Speaker 1: you know, supposedly bright minds of Wall Street that it
Speaker 1: actually did better when Jimmy Hoffo was running it and
Speaker 1: using it as his personal piggyban. That's how poor their
Speaker 1: performance was. When you had like a crook at the
Speaker 1: top who was stealing from the pension fund, the workers
Speaker 1: actually did better with that than when Wall Street was
Speaker 1: running it. Just so you know the.
Speaker 2: Backstory so well, who raises a mor meta question, who
Speaker 2: is the real cruk oh Something that we were alluding
Speaker 2: to is that one of the reasons for those who.
Speaker 3: Watched will know what we're talking about.
Speaker 2: It was very difficult to watch the moderators had no control.
Speaker 2: The questions were awful, but most importantly the candidates themselves.
Speaker 2: It just turned into a total clown show up there.
Speaker 2: There was so much cross talk, very often. I'm talking
Speaker 2: ten whole minute blocks. You had no idea who was talking,
Speaker 2: what was even debated on the stage. We have a
Speaker 2: little bit of a mashup that we can show you,
Speaker 2: just to give you a little bit of a taste
Speaker 2: for those who want to just tune in and be like, Okay,
Speaker 2: so what the hell happened?
Speaker 3: This is what it was like all night, guys. Let's
Speaker 3: take a listen.
Speaker 7: Honestly, every time I hear you, I feel a little
Speaker 7: bit dumber for what you say, because I can't believe
Speaker 7: they hear what got TikTok situation. They were there before
Speaker 7: I even showed up at the residents. You want.
Speaker 8: You want to do?
Speaker 9: Intend to go ahead like this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, guys, that that there was That time's probably like
Speaker 2: a thousand and it just wouldn't stop. And I blamed
Speaker 2: the moderators here probably more than anyone. At one point,
Speaker 2: Dane and Perino was like, we're going to have to
Speaker 2: cut your mind. I'm like, you should have cut his
Speaker 2: mic forty five minutes ago, like what are we doing here?
Speaker 1: Well, and they would just let this go on. They
Speaker 1: didn't even really try to intervene in many instances, and
Speaker 1: so of course that sets the tone for how everyone's
Speaker 1: going to approach it, you know, watching it, part of
Speaker 1: what was so painful about it was number one, you're right,
Speaker 1: the moderators were horrendous the question even putting aside, like
Speaker 1: all the fights and cross talk that you couldn't make
Speaker 1: sense of what anybody was saying, and it was just
Speaker 1: a pathetic waste of time. The question selection was really
Speaker 1: bad because that actually that union part that we played
Speaker 1: you that was the most substantive part of the demand
Speaker 1: was in the beginning, the very first question, and you
Speaker 1: know what, I listened to that question, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe this is going to be interesting. No, it was
Speaker 1: not going to be interesting because they chose to talk
Speaker 1: a lot of issues that all of them agreed with,
Speaker 1: you know, like they all are not have the same
Speaker 1: issue on the border, They're all going to have the
Speaker 1: same issue on crime, They're gonna all have the same
Speaker 1: issue on quote unquote TransGeneration, all this stuff, like they
Speaker 1: all are the same on these things. The point of
Speaker 1: these debates is to try to tease out some of
Speaker 1: the differences that might be interesting that help people make
Speaker 1: a choice. So the question selection was terrible, the command
Speaker 1: of the stage was horrendous. And by the way, this
Speaker 1: isn't like the one thing I can say for them,
Speaker 1: they like united the country in disgust for the way
Speaker 1: that this debate went down, because everyone I saw in
Speaker 1: my timeline left right, center, didn't matter, was all like
Speaker 1: this was a horrendous waste of time. And you could
Speaker 1: see how each of the candidates. You know, they're all
Speaker 1: getting desperate at this point, and that's part of why
Speaker 1: you had all this like ugliness and like crosstalk, and
Speaker 1: just it's smelled of desperation for all of them. You
Speaker 1: could feel all of them coming in with their like
Speaker 1: consultant instructions of how they were supposed to be. And
Speaker 1: then you know, clearly Scott got the message of like,
Speaker 1: you were too passive last time, you need to be
Speaker 1: more aggressive. So he was trying to pick fights with
Speaker 1: people left and right and get in on the action.
Speaker 1: You could see vi Vic it was kind of the opposite. Clearly,
Speaker 1: his consults had been like, you got to dial it
Speaker 1: back and be it. People didn't like you were too aggressive.
Speaker 1: You got to be more conciliatory. There was visceral, absolute
Speaker 1: hatred of the Veke across the stage, but especially from
Speaker 1: Nicki Haley.
Speaker 2: The thing he is about a Vike is he was like,
Speaker 2: let's all just be conciliatory up on the stage. He's like, look,
Speaker 2: you know, we're all Republicans, these are all good people,
Speaker 2: and it's like, dude, last time he literally said they
Speaker 2: were all bought and paid for it, right, But it's
Speaker 2: very I know exactly what happened because it's funny.
Speaker 3: He telegraphed it a little bit too on the nose.
Speaker 2: He said, I know a lot of you out there
Speaker 2: are thinking, who is this guy. He's a little bit
Speaker 2: of a no at all. He's a little too ambitious.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, what happened is clearly
Speaker 2: they did a focus group. Yes, those were the top things,
Speaker 2: and so he's like, let me allay their concerns by
Speaker 2: addressing them head on. Now there's a casual way to
Speaker 2: do it, and it was not the way that he
Speaker 2: did it. I'm talking to about straight to cam looking
Speaker 2: at them just being like I know that you think
Speaker 2: that I'm x Y and Z, but I'm not X
Speaker 2: Y and C. And I was like, Oh, it was
Speaker 2: incredibly cringe worthy just the way that it was delivered.
Speaker 3: I think you're right.
Speaker 2: I mean, so many of them had these poll tests
Speaker 2: after poll tests after poll test, had answers, even the
Speaker 2: canned attacks. You know, we gave you, guys, just favor
Speaker 2: there about freaking curtains. They were arguing about whether Nikki
Speaker 2: Haley had purchased too many expensive curtains or whatever for
Speaker 2: the UN ambassador's residence. I'm just like, oh, my god, Like,
Speaker 2: that is the lamest possible thing I've ever heard in
Speaker 2: my life and the entire and this was in the
Speaker 2: last seven minutes of the debate, guys, And that's why
Speaker 2: it was a very fitting honestly, and to the thing
Speaker 2: we did want to pull one matter of substance, which
Speaker 2: was and honestly, this is probably outside of the questions
Speaker 2: about Trump, which, by the way, we're missing.
Speaker 9: Why were there no.
Speaker 2: Real questions about Trump? Are you gonna support them? What
Speaker 2: do you think about the criminal charges? All this other stuff.
Speaker 2: One of the areas where they obviously wildly disagree on
Speaker 2: abortion in particular, there were pointed questions about how are
Speaker 2: you gonna hand considering how much about poison pill it
Speaker 2: has become for a lot of voters.
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.
Speaker 6: Because I believe in life, but I also believe in states' rights,
Speaker 6: and I think we fought hard against Roe versus Weight
Speaker 6: for decades to say that states should make these decisions.
Speaker 10: And I reject this idea that pro lifers are to
Speaker 10: blame for midterm defeats. I think there's other reasons for that.
Speaker 10: The former president, you know, he's missing an action tonight.
Speaker 10: He's had a lot to say about that. He should
Speaker 10: be here explaining his comments to try to say that
Speaker 10: pro life protections are somehow a terrible thing. I want
Speaker 10: him to look into the eyes and tell people who've
Speaker 10: been fighting this fight for.
Speaker 9: A long time.
Speaker 2: So I actually thought that was an interesting, spicy moment.
Speaker 2: We're going to talk with Ryan and Emily about some
Speaker 2: of the more overt attacks on Trump, which I of
Speaker 2: course found very interesting, just about for him not showing up. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I thought that Chris Christie's answer, and you know,
Speaker 2: he had the best point. He's like, look, I'm the
Speaker 2: only guy here who is actually a governor of blue
Speaker 2: state and He's like, so obviously, you know, talking about
Speaker 2: states rights. It's like that's probably more of a winning element.
Speaker 2: You could see Mike Pants didn't even have the gumption
Speaker 2: to like jump in there and defend you know, his
Speaker 2: biggest issue. But you also saw and there's a big
Speaker 2: fight going on right now behind the scenes.
Speaker 3: I don't know if people saw.
Speaker 2: Trump gave an interview recently where he basically implied that
Speaker 2: a lot of pro life movement was grifters. He's like,
Speaker 2: they're always raising money. I guess it's a business something
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 1: Something.
Speaker 2: Every time with him, I'm just like, hey, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean, he's definitely right, but it's one of those
Speaker 2: where it's just funny always to hear somebody say that.
Speaker 2: It's just look to me, that's one of his political strengths.
Speaker 2: He can piss off supposedly one of the most vital
Speaker 2: parts of the coalition.
Speaker 3: I saw a poll yesterday, Crystal which says that.
Speaker 2: GOP voters believe that Trump is the person of most
Speaker 2: faith in the entire race.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's why, you know, you can get away.
Speaker 2: With it if he wants to. I mean, I don't
Speaker 2: know who these people are full of himself. And by
Speaker 2: the way, if you're like a Christian and you're like, well,
Speaker 2: I think he's the leader who accomplish what I want most. Fine,
Speaker 2: But to be like, no, no, no, you know what,
Speaker 2: that's a godfearing man right there.
Speaker 3: That's a whole okay, okay, delusion.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean and that listen, when I look at
Speaker 1: Donald Trump and I look at these other candidates, I
Speaker 1: feel like, Okay, he is the person who got these
Speaker 1: justices in place and accomplished the long term goals exactly,
Speaker 1: I do think, I mean, he is the one that
Speaker 1: opened up this new, in my opinion, absolutely horrific, unconjurable landscape,
Speaker 1: which has been devastating for Republicans at the polls when
Speaker 1: people have actually gone and voted. But if you're someone
Speaker 1: who that issue was core, you know, I do think
Speaker 1: he gets a lot of credit for that. And so
Speaker 1: it does give him a lot of bandwidth to say
Speaker 1: things that other politicians couldn't get away with. And it's
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. He gets away with saying things all the
Speaker 1: time that other politicians couldn't get away with. So you know,
Speaker 1: they're still trying to navigate this issue. I thought, I
Speaker 1: actually thought Chris Christy did a little bit better last
Speaker 1: night than he did in the first debate, but it's
Speaker 1: just very heart Listen. The winner of this debate was
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, no question or like Asa Hutchinson for not
Speaker 1: making the stage and not having to participate in this matter.
Speaker 1: But the thing that always stands out to me too
Speaker 1: is while there were some jabs at Trump about him
Speaker 1: not being there or whatever, they trained way more of
Speaker 1: their fire on them on each other, on Vivic and
Speaker 1: Nicky in particular, and Nikki you know, she's the one
Speaker 1: candidate who got a little bit of a bump from
Speaker 1: the first debate. So clearly Tim Scott in particular had
Speaker 1: it out like I gotta take her down. I got
Speaker 1: to be the donor favorite, you know, I got to
Speaker 1: rise in the polls and you know, make have my
Speaker 1: moment or whatever, which he's just not an attacker. It's
Speaker 1: not natural to him, and he didn't land any of
Speaker 1: it effectively.
Speaker 11: Really.
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of jabs at Vivike, who also
Speaker 1: has you know, sort of hung in there as like
Speaker 1: a solid third. He's risen to be about third place
Speaker 1: in the most poles behind Ron de Santis, and so
Speaker 1: there was a lot of fire trained at him. Still
Speaker 1: not a lot of fire trained at Ronda Santis for
Speaker 1: whatever reason. But you're just looking at this. This is part
Speaker 1: of why this whole thing feels so pointless, is like
Speaker 1: the guy who is overwhelmingly winning, you're barely talking about him,
Speaker 1: and you're barely barely punching at him whatsoever. And these attacks,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I wish, I wish it was a potent
Speaker 1: attack to be like, you're not here and you should
Speaker 1: justify yourself to the voters. I've just never seen it
Speaker 1: actually really be politically salient, really land a strong political
Speaker 1: blow because I've seen this attempt many times because oftentimes incumbents,
Speaker 1: unfortunately I feel like they don't have to debate and
Speaker 1: it would lower themselves to have to talk to the
Speaker 1: voters or have to meet their challenger, and you know,
Speaker 1: challengers always try to make an issue of it. I've
Speaker 1: just never really seen it work out.
Speaker 2: We know, we had a pull from our friends over
Speaker 2: at Jail Partners that they did for the Daily Mail,
Speaker 2: and unsurprisingly people basically felt the same way that we did.
Speaker 2: They say, quote, who was the real winner of the
Speaker 2: second presidential debate? Number one Donald Trump twenty seven percent,
Speaker 2: Number two, vik Ramaswami at twenty six percent.
Speaker 3: It's funny.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure I agree with that or not in
Speaker 2: a traditional way. I do just because I'm always like, okay,
Speaker 2: if the new guy is getting fired and he's getting
Speaker 2: the second amount of speaking time, Yeah, that's the metric
Speaker 2: that I use last time around.
Speaker 3: Guess what didn't matter at all?
Speaker 2: Literally hasn't seen a single righte in a poll, a sausage,
Speaker 2: a pole on in any average that we saw afterwards.
Speaker 3: So yeah, okay, Then Rond.
Speaker 2: DeSantis at seventeen percent, and then a smattering of Nicki Haley's,
Speaker 2: Mike Penc's, Tim Scott's, Chris Christie's, I mean, outside of
Speaker 2: the loser again being all of us who wasted our
Speaker 2: time on this entire thing. I don't think Nicki Haley
Speaker 2: came off particularly well last night. I'm curious what you think.
Speaker 2: I thought that she came across. It was a canned
Speaker 2: moment where she tried to go against a vak. She
Speaker 2: was trying to recreate her moment of you don't have
Speaker 2: any foreign policy experience, and it shows with the like,
Speaker 2: you know, every time you say, every time you speak,
Speaker 2: I feel dumber, Yeah, or something like that. I did
Speaker 2: not find anything that she I didn't she didn't have
Speaker 2: a moment, to be honest, none of them really had moments.
Speaker 1: No, there was very hard to point to any breakout
Speaker 1: moment from anyone. Really, it was just a mess. The
Speaker 1: whole thing was just a mess. No one stood out.
Speaker 1: And so I agree with you on Nicki Haley. You know,
Speaker 1: I thought she had putting the substance aside because I
Speaker 1: did a whole thing about it, like her foreign policy
Speaker 1: I think is atrocious, ETCeteras are. But I thought she
Speaker 1: had a strong first debate and I thought she really
Speaker 1: exceeded expectations. I thought she was strong, she was clear,
Speaker 1: she was unafraid of mixing it up. I thought she
Speaker 1: was the one person who really kind of put the
Speaker 1: vacant his place, you know, and had won the exchange,
Speaker 1: even again putting the substance of the issue aside. And
Speaker 1: she needed a follow up performance. She needed to show
Speaker 1: it wasn't a flash in the pant. She needed to
Speaker 1: consolidate that increase in the polls, that bump and fundraising
Speaker 1: interest that she had after the first debate, and she
Speaker 1: failed to do that. So in that way, I do
Speaker 1: sort of feel like maybe she's the biggest loser just
Speaker 1: because she had something to lose here in terms of
Speaker 1: being the new donor favorite, the new media darling, et cetera.
Speaker 1: And she definitely did not deliver a similar level of
Speaker 1: performance as she did in the first debate. You know what,
Speaker 1: It reminds me a little bit of Kamala Harris. Yes, absolutely,
Speaker 1: she had that first debate back in twenty twenty, that
Speaker 1: little Girl with Me. She had the whole moment, she
Speaker 1: delivered it. It had an impact. She genuinely went up
Speaker 1: in the polls. We forget now, but she went up
Speaker 1: in the polls. That was her highest level during the
Speaker 1: whole campaign, and so I was like, oh, maybe she
Speaker 1: can you know, build on this. And then there was
Speaker 1: never another moment because you know, those those scripted attack lines,
Speaker 1: those scripted you know, sort of like fakely generated moments,
Speaker 1: they're hard to pull off more than once. Yes, so
Speaker 1: I feel like Niki was able to pull it off
Speaker 1: in the first one and the second one not able
Speaker 1: to land it and just ended up looking less adult,
Speaker 1: less presidential. Part of that is she was taking more
Speaker 1: incoming from other people or whatever. But I do think
Speaker 1: that this, if you had to pick a loser. I
Speaker 1: would probably pick Nicki Haley outside of like literally everyone,
Speaker 1: because I think I could see her slipping back in
Speaker 1: the polls and you know it being a little more muddled.
Speaker 1: Who is going to be the donor favorite going forward?
Speaker 1: And the reality is too I think a lot of
Speaker 1: these donors who were hoping to have a Trump alternative
Speaker 1: are kind of giving up at this point.
Speaker 3: I mean, and they should give up.
Speaker 2: I mean, look in the current you know, real clear
Speaker 2: politics average, where do Trump stand?
Speaker 3: He stands at fifty six percent. Ron DeSantis doesn't even
Speaker 3: come close. He's at fourteen point four percent.
Speaker 2: Hailey then is number three at five eight, and Ramaswami
Speaker 2: is at five to one even in Iowa. And for
Speaker 2: anybody who wants we did breakdown on this as well
Speaker 2: during our debate preview. Trump in Iowa is at forty nine,
Speaker 2: DeSantis is at sixteen. Trump in New Hampshire is at
Speaker 2: forty four, Hailey is at thirteen. I mean, we're looking
Speaker 2: at a clean sweep really across everywhere. Another thing that
Speaker 2: people are forgetting in the Republican primary. The California primary
Speaker 2: is now in Super Tuesday, and the current allocation of
Speaker 2: the vote count looks like Trump is going to sweep
Speaker 2: every single delegate out of California, which would effectively clinch
Speaker 2: the nomination like three weeks into the actual primary. The
Speaker 2: calendar right now and the way the primary processes works
Speaker 2: in terms of the alec of delegates.
Speaker 6: And all that.
Speaker 3: This man it will it will not be in any
Speaker 3: way like a long contest. It's not going to be
Speaker 3: Obama two thousand and eight.
Speaker 2: It's not going to be you know, Clinton in ninety
Speaker 2: two or w even in two thousand and It's just
Speaker 2: like it almost seems over before it began, which is
Speaker 2: it's difficult in in order to treat it with this
Speaker 2: level of seriousness. It's all just made me really think
Speaker 2: of like watching a JV squad, like a JV squad practice.
Speaker 11: What it felt like.
Speaker 3: That's what it felt.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is absolutely what it felt like. And it's depressing,
Speaker 1: you know, as people who care about politics and think
Speaker 1: this stuff matters, and you know, want to like sort
Speaker 1: through the policy differences and have people we actually potentially
Speaker 1: like respected Ormer to be possibly president the United States.
Speaker 1: It's depressing that on neither side do you have a
Speaker 1: real contest. You know, I do think it's like a
Speaker 1: bigger meta point about the decline of our democracy that
Speaker 1: makes you feel like, like, do we even have any
Speaker 1: real choices here? Because neither of the front runners, Joe
Speaker 1: Biden or Donald Trump, are willing to actually subject themselves
Speaker 1: to democratic process and there's nothing to force them to.
Speaker 1: And so it's very every other presidential election in my
Speaker 1: whole life, you've had these debates mean something and matter,
Speaker 1: and even though they can be silly and political theater
Speaker 1: and they're all putting on makeup with their can talking
Speaker 1: about whatever, at least there was something there to talk about.
Speaker 1: There was some sense that these issues were consequential, that
Speaker 1: you had people that were weighing them, that what they
Speaker 1: said on the stage might matter at all. And now
Speaker 1: you just don't have any of that whatsoever, and so
Speaker 1: it really is depressing. I think it's a sign of
Speaker 1: the decay and decline of our society.
Speaker 2: Frankly sad as one politician who was not there once
Speaker 2: had to say, we've got Ryan and Emily standing by.
Speaker 2: We're gonna have a nice power panel. We we're gonna
Speaker 2: have them in for the rest of the show. We're
Speaker 2: just gonna have a lot of fun. So we'll post
Speaker 2: this one a little bit early, both for our PREMIU
Speaker 2: subscribers and for everybody else. Everybody else, stay tuned, We're
Speaker 2: gonna have a lot of great content for the rest
Speaker 2: of the day.
Speaker 3: We'll see you in a bit.
Speaker 1: So we brought in some backup here, Ryan and Emily
Speaker 1: joining our big power power panel that's right to evaluate
Speaker 1: all of the wonderful moments from this debate that was
Speaker 1: just uniformly loved last night. Welcome guys, great to see
Speaker 1: you both.
Speaker 11: Thanks you having you.
Speaker 1: So we wanted to start with what was perhaps the
Speaker 1: defining moment and the most significant moment of the debate,
Speaker 1: which is when, for some unknown reason, Tim Scott decided
Speaker 1: to pick a fight with Nikki Haley over curtains sexist,
Speaker 1: which got good point, good point Emily, which extremely heated.
Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to how this all went down
Speaker 1: and get reaction on the other side.
Speaker 12: As the UN ambassador, you literally bring it, put fifty
Speaker 12: thousand dollars on curtains and a fifteen million dollar subsidized location.
Speaker 7: Next, you got bad information. First of all, I fought
Speaker 7: the gas tax in South Carolina multiple times, against the
Speaker 7: against the establishment. You know what that was when they
Speaker 7: wouldn't pass the gas sex the establishment of the companies
Speaker 7: wanted me to do it.
Speaker 1: So much that I said, the only way I will.
Speaker 3: Here's what you have to do. Three All you have
Speaker 3: to do is go watch it on YouTube.
Speaker 7: If you will give me three times the deduction and
Speaker 7: income tax, then I will look at.
Speaker 1: Your gat.
Speaker 4: Exactly.
Speaker 11: Secondly on the fifty here is.
Speaker 9: A nice part.
Speaker 7: Secondly, on the curtains, do you work ten because Obama
Speaker 7: bought those curtains.
Speaker 9: Did you send them back? Did you send them back?
Speaker 1: It's the state department.
Speaker 3: Did you send them back?
Speaker 1: You're the one that works in Congress?
Speaker 13: You get it.
Speaker 9: You hung them on your curtains. They were there before
Speaker 9: I even showed up at the residents. Here's a scrapping,
Speaker 9: here's here's you want, as.
Speaker 1: They were Obama curtains.
Speaker 11: Emily is, well, let's not act like Obama didn't hang
Speaker 11: the in here.
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean I thought, guys that it just really
Speaker 2: the reason we picked it is that was seven minutes left.
Speaker 2: That was InLu by the way of closing statements from
Speaker 2: the candidates, which is what's actually so insane.
Speaker 14: It was better than.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what they chose to go with. I mean, Emily,
Speaker 3: why do you think so?
Speaker 2: Tim Scott obviously feeling a bit insecure, also from South Carolina.
Speaker 2: Everybody said, oh, you played too much of a nice
Speaker 2: guy last time.
Speaker 3: You got to land some blows.
Speaker 2: But like, what makes people think that this is actually
Speaker 2: substantively or even like totally going to land with any
Speaker 2: voters who are even watching at ten fifty pm last night?
Speaker 9: So much?
Speaker 11: Yeah, First of all, I think that Tim Scott sees
Speaker 11: his main attack on Nikki Haley as being that she's
Speaker 11: some sort of corporate welfare queen, which is true, by
Speaker 11: the way, she's like a queen of crony capitalism. But
Speaker 11: she that's clearly Tim Scott saying, like, if there's a
Speaker 11: way for me to distinguish myself from this other very
Speaker 11: popular person from South Carolina. In South Carolina, it's to
Speaker 11: call her some sort of corporate welfare queen, to say
Speaker 11: she loves foud money. I don't know if it's gonna
Speaker 11: make any difference. I think we all know it's not
Speaker 11: gonna make any difference. They're both jockeying to see if
Speaker 11: somehow Elaine opens up where they can squeeze in the
Speaker 11: second place. At some point, DeSantis fails, they're able to
Speaker 11: someone you know, wins Iowa, New Hampshire and somehow listen,
Speaker 11: don't trap us up by like, yeah, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 11: But if you're going for second place, that's how Tim
Speaker 11: Scott sees in the off chance that he and Nicky
Speaker 11: Haley end up jockeying for second place. Yeah, that's his
Speaker 11: line of attack against Nikki Haley. And that was a
Speaker 11: preview of it.
Speaker 1: I liked the goateee ran if anyone would know, do
Speaker 1: you know the backstory? Not that it matters, but do
Speaker 1: you know the backstory this whole curtain situation? Because I
Speaker 1: don't even like digging into the recesses of my memory.
Speaker 1: I don't remember this particular little mini skin.
Speaker 15: My vague recollection is that Obama, the Obama administration had
Speaker 15: done some renovations for the UN facilities.
Speaker 2: That yes, the UN ambassador's residus residentes okay, And so
Speaker 2: I think the key question is you're appointed ambassador to
Speaker 2: the UN, you show up.
Speaker 15: Obama has bought these nice curtains. You hate Obama, you
Speaker 15: think he's born in Kenya if he should have been impeached,
Speaker 15: but the curtains are lovely.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what do you do indeed world.
Speaker 2: By the way, the apartment is very nice, actual sausage
Speaker 2: pictures something. Samantha Power did a great job. I know,
Speaker 2: apparently she spent a lot of money.
Speaker 11: Wish.
Speaker 3: I can't stomach any more of this ridiculous convo.
Speaker 2: So let's actually get to the so called substance of this,
Speaker 2: which was Trump's actual attack, or attack at least on
Speaker 2: Trump for not showing up. We saw a pointed moment
Speaker 2: from a couple of the candidates, one in particular, trying
Speaker 2: to make something happen which really wasn't happening at all.
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.
Speaker 10: They need to change what's going on. And where's Joe Biden.
Speaker 10: He's completely missing in action from leadership. And you know
Speaker 10: who else is missing an action? Donald Trump is missing
Speaker 10: in action. He should be on this stage tonight. De
Speaker 10: owes it to you to defend his record where they
Speaker 10: added seven point eight trillion to the debt that set
Speaker 10: the stage for the inflation that we have now.
Speaker 6: I get in Washington, DC also, and Donald Trump should
Speaker 6: be here to answer for that, but he's not. And
Speaker 6: I want to look at that camera right now and
Speaker 6: tell you, Donald, I know you're watching. You can't help yourself.
Speaker 6: I know you're watching, okay, and you're not here tonight.
Speaker 6: Not because of Poles and not because of your indictments.
Speaker 6: You're not here tonight because you're afraid of being on
Speaker 6: the stage and defending your record. You're ducking these things.
Speaker 6: And let me tell you what's gonna happen you keep
Speaker 6: doing that. No one up here is gonna call you
Speaker 6: Donald Trump anymore. We're gonna call you Donald Duck.
Speaker 8: All right.
Speaker 2: I want to ask the grin minigame, you know, Crystal,
Speaker 2: I feel like he could have just cut it right
Speaker 2: before the whole Donald You.
Speaker 3: Know, it was so good.
Speaker 1: It was a good mind up, and the problem was
Speaker 1: with him and they were sort of like engaged, and
Speaker 1: then he land he throws out this Donald Duck line.
Speaker 11: It was just like, oh, collective boomer bellyflop.
Speaker 1: So absolutely absolutely, But I mean, listen, there were a
Speaker 1: few like jabs, mostly around the fact that Trump wasn't there,
Speaker 1: but they spent way more time attacking each other, Ryan,
Speaker 1: and it's not like any one of them is anywhere
Speaker 1: close to Donald Trump at this point. So it just
Speaker 1: feels it all feels very weak to me in terms
Speaker 1: of how far they're willing to go. And you can
Speaker 1: trast that with you know, the things Trump is willing
Speaker 1: to say about DeSantis or any of them. You know,
Speaker 1: he's out now his his new line, which you can't
Speaker 1: help but laugh at, because that's just how it is
Speaker 1: with Donald Trump. He's out there like Ronda Santis is
Speaker 1: fallen off as fast as a wounded bird like that,
Speaker 1: and the Santas feels like he's really like going hard
Speaker 1: when he's like, where is he should be here?
Speaker 11: He's wounded because he called he called Joe Biden a stay,
Speaker 11: a wretched old vulture.
Speaker 16: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, he's always been interested in the birds with the windmills.
Speaker 1: Now we brought the whales and whale concern into the windmills.
Speaker 14: Dogs to him, Oh that's true. He doesn't like dogs,
Speaker 14: and everything's like a dog.
Speaker 9: Substance. Yeah.
Speaker 14: I mean it should have been Donald Donald Dodge. Maybe
Speaker 14: that could have worked.
Speaker 9: Not sure.
Speaker 1: Don't do the nicknames. It's Trump's thing. Just don't do
Speaker 1: the nicknames.
Speaker 15: They're all so bad that they made Trump look great again.
Speaker 15: It's just remarkable, and it reminded me almost of twenty sixteen,
Speaker 15: all of these clowns just trying to like throw spitballs
Speaker 15: at him, right, and just none of it works. They're
Speaker 15: like trying to talk substance and looking like normal candidates
Speaker 15: even though what they're saying is completely empty and nobody
Speaker 15: believes it. And then in the face of his like
Speaker 15: presentation to these auto executives or whoever showed up at
Speaker 15: this non union plant, it it just pales in comparison.
Speaker 15: Even Trump when he's doing is like, like I sent
Speaker 15: to you guys his ridiculous, ridiculous story about here. See
Speaker 15: that's even way that nonsense is even more fun than
Speaker 15: anything that these guys.
Speaker 14: Had to offer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I completely agree. I mean, Emily, do you think
Speaker 2: though that there is was there a way to make
Speaker 2: that in a better way that I mean? I thought
Speaker 2: the Santa's handled it fun, But I mean, it's just
Speaker 2: difficult to take gauge it. It's like, dude, you're pulling
Speaker 2: a fourteen percent. The guy's beating you by forty points. Like, realistically,
Speaker 2: was there anything he could have done outside of that
Speaker 2: to you know, let quote unquote land on something and
Speaker 2: Trump get some Trump people over, you know, to his
Speaker 2: corner here.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure. I'm sure if there is, because I
Speaker 3: almost feel like he's playing a rigged game at this point.
Speaker 11: Yeah, I think it's a good question, and actually the
Speaker 11: answer is I think he could continue to more successfully
Speaker 11: use this will be controversial the tact that Vivek took
Speaker 11: in the very first debate where he's talking about Donald Trump,
Speaker 11: and of course you get into these questions of like, well,
Speaker 11: if Trump was such a great president winner, you run well,
Speaker 11: run to Saint Justs can answer that question because he
Speaker 11: was governor of Florida and had high popularity. So that's
Speaker 11: the DeSantis approach where he's actually trying to appeal to
Speaker 11: like never Trump people instead of just Trump curious and
Speaker 11: hardcore Trump people, which is you absolutely needed to win
Speaker 11: you grassroots of the Republican primary. He always should have
Speaker 11: been way less in the never Trump camp and way
Speaker 11: more and you you will automatically be put in the
Speaker 11: never Trump camp if you criticize Donald Trump constantly. And
Speaker 11: I know that's hard in the Republican primary, but from
Speaker 11: a political strategy, his consultants had months to figure this out. Yeah,
Speaker 11: pretty obvious. You're going to immediately lose the trust of
Speaker 11: those voters because they see him being indictments being stacked
Speaker 11: up against Donald Trump. Whenever we think of it, the
Speaker 11: voters see that as an attack on him. It's about
Speaker 11: like solidarity with Trump.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: I actually have been a little bit persuaded that some
Speaker 1: of the early attacks that DeSantis was trying to do
Speaker 1: on Trump with regard to COVID and Fauci, were probably
Speaker 1: the best lane for him. The issue is, I mean,
Speaker 1: the timing just everybody's moved on, right, Yes, but I
Speaker 1: think if you had a different universe where that was
Speaker 1: still like the beating heart of what was going on
Speaker 1: in the Republican Party, and then you're really beating up
Speaker 1: on Fauci versus beating up on Trump. And we did
Speaker 1: see this with our focus group, you know, the one
Speaker 1: area where every there couple who were you know, disgusted
Speaker 1: with Trump, they didn't want Trump anymore, and they were
Speaker 1: very clear about and this it was New Hampshire, right,
Speaker 1: so you have that strained there. But even the people
Speaker 1: who were Trump's supporters, the one thing that a number
Speaker 1: of them brought up that they had issues with his
Speaker 1: administration was around the handling of COVID. So I do
Speaker 1: think that was probably like the most promising attack, and
Speaker 1: like I said, rather than it feeling like you were
Speaker 1: just dumping on Trump. You could have used fauci as
Speaker 1: like you know the guy that you're beating up on,
Speaker 1: and then why did an insisty like why didn't you
Speaker 1: fire and why'd you keep him there? Et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 1: That's probably the most promising line of attack for him still,
Speaker 1: but it's just a little late, because, like I said,
Speaker 1: people moved on. COVID feels like a long time ago.
Speaker 2: I think the back you up is it's clearly where
Speaker 2: that Trump people feel very uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: They feel vulnerable there.
Speaker 2: Yesterday or maybe a couple of days ago, at this point,
Speaker 2: Carrie Lake would she go on Patrick Bett David's show
Speaker 2: and she accused Dessant. She was like, he was masking kids,
Speaker 2: he was doing the lockdown, and it was like and
Speaker 2: it kind of came out and a lot of the
Speaker 2: deshantest people actually got very upset. She ended up moving
Speaker 2: on being like, let's all just agree to you know,
Speaker 2: it's okay. COVID was a long time ago. I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: why did you bring it up?
Speaker 3: That lady is that said? You know, she's the tack dog,
Speaker 3: she's she basically she doesn't live in Arizona. She lives
Speaker 3: in mar Lago. From what I've heard, the ladies there
Speaker 3: literally every night.
Speaker 2: So clearly she's talking with Trump, She's talking with the
Speaker 2: Trump advisors, and so Emily, I mean, clearly they feel
Speaker 2: some vulnerability on the FAUCI and COVID handling, even though
Speaker 2: I mean, frankly on the substance I've always thought, you know,
Speaker 2: with Trump, I'm like, yeah, like, we live in a
Speaker 2: federalist system such that DeSantis could do whatever he wanted
Speaker 2: to do, which is also why California could do what
Speaker 2: they wanted to do.
Speaker 3: What is the president supposed to do? But that's a
Speaker 3: whole other conversation.
Speaker 11: Well, when Meghan Kelly started her interview with Trump, she said,
Speaker 11: the number one thing I wanted to hear from my audience,
Speaker 11: people who like you, is why you shut the country
Speaker 11: down for so long. He freaked out. He did not
Speaker 11: want to answer that question. Didn't have a good answer
Speaker 11: to that question, to the point where actually was on
Speaker 11: Megan Show yesterday and she was pulling out the receipts
Speaker 11: like tweets that Trump posted in the time period when
Speaker 11: he was like, oh, you know, it was all good,
Speaker 11: Like I was delegating it to the governors. So I
Speaker 11: think it is You're absolutely right. Both of you are
Speaker 11: absolutely right. That has always been but it's tough because
Speaker 11: it's now twenty twenty three and the hits don't land
Speaker 11: like they did in twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two,
Speaker 11: because now the country sort of moved on high inflation
Speaker 11: war in Ukraine, it's a different political climate.
Speaker 2: So that's always been a problem for DeSantis. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: think you're right. I mean, just to stay on the debate,
Speaker 2: you know, continue. I just we were talking about it
Speaker 2: a little bit before. I was curious what you guys
Speaker 2: thought in terms of the questions. I mean, they kept
Speaker 2: teeing them up for areas where there was no actual debate.
Speaker 2: They're like, what do you think about crime? They're like,
Speaker 2: I think crime is bad.
Speaker 1: I I mean, wow, that was really revealing.
Speaker 2: What difference would they all have, like where they have
Speaker 2: no area of disagreement on transgenderism, on crime, really on
Speaker 2: anything abortion.
Speaker 3: Honestly, they probably is some disagreement. So I'm glad they
Speaker 3: spent some time there.
Speaker 2: Are the economy, uaw, I mean a little bit, you
Speaker 2: know is Frankly, I would have liked to dug a
Speaker 2: little bit deeper in there and tax policy and like
Speaker 2: because there probably is some difference around top tax rates,
Speaker 2: et cetera.
Speaker 3: But we didn't get any of that.
Speaker 1: Guys, like even you know, the government shutdown is like, yes,
Speaker 1: they kind of a big oil right now. Questions me
Speaker 1: and two questions that nobody even really addressed.
Speaker 11: Press them.
Speaker 1: And that's another area where there could be real divides
Speaker 1: between the McArthur approach and then Matt Gates approach and
Speaker 1: what Donald Trump has said and whatever, and they did
Speaker 1: nothing to try to tease any of that out.
Speaker 14: Did you notice that the premise of a lot of
Speaker 14: the questions was left wing?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yes, I sort of enjoyed that first.
Speaker 14: It's kind of funny, of course, I also knew its pointless.
Speaker 15: Yeah, exactly if you if you tell someone, hey, the
Speaker 15: executive pay is three hundred and seventy seven times as
Speaker 15: much as workers, what are you going to do about that?
Speaker 15: Like they're not doing anything about that, So it's not
Speaker 15: actually question, but it's fun to hear it.
Speaker 3: I thought that framing was fine.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't even necessarily code that as left wing, just
Speaker 2: because I think that one that's like empirical fact. So
Speaker 2: like the other ones though, where on amnesty or slavery.
Speaker 2: And I'm just like, okay, like what this is a
Speaker 2: Chris Hayes interview, Like what doing here?
Speaker 11: I have no problem with them getting tough questions, but
Speaker 11: it's a Republican debate. You have people that are able
Speaker 11: to bring out the contrast Republicans because.
Speaker 14: Not responding to a left wing premise, they just like
Speaker 14: blow past it.
Speaker 1: But you know, if you think about it, yeah, they
Speaker 1: definitely did just blow past it. I actually don't mind
Speaker 1: the framing from an adversarial position if you think about it. Though,
Speaker 1: no one would think anything of democratic debate questions being
Speaker 1: framed from like a corporate right.
Speaker 9: We're so.
Speaker 1: We're just used to that being the case of like
Speaker 1: you're going to spend too much money on Medicare or whatever.
Speaker 1: Like they're always framed that way on the Democratic side.
Speaker 1: So you know, maybe this is just a little bit.
Speaker 3: Of that's actually good point.
Speaker 2: If you're going to raise it to your if you're
Speaker 2: going to phrase it in an adversarial way, then I
Speaker 2: mean that's you know, and especially if it's going to
Speaker 2: be like that on the other side of the debate,
Speaker 2: then I actually think, you know, maybe I revise my position. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's more about let's get some goddamn disagreement.
Speaker 11: It's like they didn't know where to bring out contrast
Speaker 11: Republican candidates. And that's I mean, that's when you're using
Speaker 11: left ring frame on the questions of no problem with
Speaker 11: that whatsoever. But there it wasn't towards any helpful end. Right,
Speaker 11: The conversations were constructive.
Speaker 1: The weird thing is too that this was a Fox
Speaker 1: Business and Univision debate, but they did very little on
Speaker 1: the economy, and which is you know, one thing if
Speaker 1: you're going to go into topics where again there's going
Speaker 1: to be some debate and disagreement, but there were actually
Speaker 1: be more debate and disagreement around some of these economic issues.
Speaker 1: I mean you also have you know, big things happening
Speaker 1: in the anti trust world that they could have gotten into. Yeah. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: but you know, the government shutdown being a huge example
Speaker 1: of this that's just totally invisible. And so by skipping
Speaker 1: over their own what's supposed to be the core of
Speaker 1: what Fox Business, I guess it's all about talking about
Speaker 1: the economy, business, et cetera. They really left a lot
Speaker 1: on the table in terms of some of the more
Speaker 1: interesting divides that could have been in this debate is that.
Speaker 15: Because they don't like to disagree about the economy, like
Speaker 15: that's Fox business has been basically an ideology that goes unspoken,
Speaker 15: and it is just at it was.
Speaker 1: In the you know, Ronald Reagan Library.
Speaker 15: Nostalgist their ideology, and if you start asking them about it,
Speaker 15: you're going to get a bunch of them who are
Speaker 15: going to give populist answers even if they don't believe it.
Speaker 15: And then and then that's an awkward moment for Fox Business.
Speaker 11: That's true. You could ask a question, Actually, this would
Speaker 11: have been perfect. This is such a good point. This
Speaker 11: is a huge point because Reagan Japan tariffs. You're at
Speaker 11: the Reagan Library, a single point of disagreement that almost
Speaker 11: every single one of those candidates have with the guy
Speaker 11: who is up by forty points and just gave a
Speaker 11: speech literally on economic nationalism. It's a phrase that he
Speaker 11: used when he was talking at the non union plant
Speaker 11: economic nationalism. He just gives this big speech and you
Speaker 11: don't draw out the contrast between all of the candidates
Speaker 11: and that big like the single divide, the biggest divide
Speaker 11: between them and him. On policy is that he is
Speaker 11: out there talking about economic nationalism, whether or not you
Speaker 11: believe he'll deliver on it as a different debate, but
Speaker 11: that speech was the new Right in an address, yes,
Speaker 11: and so to not push them on that, I think
Speaker 11: now that you guys brought that up, I think that
Speaker 11: is actually a huge mistake.
Speaker 2: It's an important point, and it's also one where you
Speaker 2: know was trying. He's like, we cannot fall to the
Speaker 2: siren song of populism, and like all this other stuff
Speaker 2: that he's bringing, wondering why he's on the wing in
Speaker 2: the stage.
Speaker 3: It's very interesting.
Speaker 14: You can't have a meal alone with populism.
Speaker 2: That you I forgot that he made that joke about
Speaker 2: how he's been sleeping with a teacher.
Speaker 11: For thirty Joe Biden thirty eight years.
Speaker 1: Christy brought up years.
Speaker 3: Everyone he's wrong, everyone stopped.
Speaker 1: I hated that. I didn't like when he mentioned he should.
Speaker 14: Have gotten five minutes off the stage.
Speaker 12: It.
Speaker 11: But you can see you can see Pence debating whether
Speaker 11: or not to say it, like the wheels were turning
Speaker 11: in his head. He like sort of slowed down. And
Speaker 11: yet if if you missed this moment, he said, Chris
Speaker 11: Christie said that he had been Biden's had been sleeping
Speaker 11: with a teacher for years, referring.
Speaker 1: To doctor Jill Biden tea union point exactly.
Speaker 11: It was super bad. And then Mike Pence is like,
Speaker 11: kind of looking at the camera, He's like, well, I've
Speaker 11: been sleeping with a teacher for thirty eight years.
Speaker 3: There was a buzz and everyone was like, is that
Speaker 3: real to actually just happen? Both of you off for
Speaker 3: five all the policemen, what do we call it? Let's
Speaker 3: move on to let's move on?
Speaker 1: Okay, So, as we know, we had Trump in another
Speaker 1: location at this non union plant with people who some
Speaker 1: of them may be workers or a bunch of people
Speaker 1: who were interviewed who said, you know, I'm not union,
Speaker 1: I'm not an auto worker or whatever, and making some
Speaker 1: very interesting comments about the ongoing United Autoworkers strike, basically
Speaker 1: telling the workers that they don't understand what they're doing
Speaker 1: and they're picking the wrong targets. Take a listen to
Speaker 1: what he had to say.
Speaker 9: In other words, your.
Speaker 8: Current negotiations don't mean as much.
Speaker 2: As you think.
Speaker 16: I mean, I'll watch you out there with the pickets,
Speaker 16: but I don't think you're picketting for the right thing.
Speaker 16: But if they endorse me, your leadership, you can tell
Speaker 16: them I said it, although I have a feeling they
Speaker 16: may be watching tonight.
Speaker 1: Ryan, what'd you make at this moment?
Speaker 15: And he goes on and on and on and on about,
Speaker 15: of course he does, about how the UAW leadership'll endorse him,
Speaker 15: and if you does, the auto industry is just going
Speaker 15: to explode, and if he doesn't, then it's all going
Speaker 15: to be get driven into evs and they'll all be
Speaker 15: out of work. I think he doesn't understand. I get it,
Speaker 15: he's talking to the whole country. Yeah, but if he
Speaker 15: was actually serious about talking to the auto workers, he
Speaker 15: could have addressed the actual concerns that the auto workers
Speaker 15: are having, which and they're saying, what we're striking over
Speaker 15: is we want protections for the future EV jobs. I
Speaker 15: think a lot of autoworkers and a lot of people
Speaker 15: around the country know that, yes, there are incentives in
Speaker 15: federal law put in by the IRA to move people,
Speaker 15: you know, to move the industry quicker away from the
Speaker 15: internal combustion engine. But I don't think anybody thinks that
Speaker 15: absent that that fifty years from now, it's going to
Speaker 15: be just a thriving industry, like you're just kind of
Speaker 15: shouting into avoid at that point, I think everybody knows like.
Speaker 14: This is over, Like we're moving toward electric vehicles. So
Speaker 14: the question is how do we transition?
Speaker 3: So I think the answer to that is correct.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it will be one hundred percent,
Speaker 2: and we've talked a lot about on the show, but
Speaker 2: I'm curious, actually, this is tactical point I've been trying
Speaker 2: to save and I want to get your guys take,
Speaker 2: and I'll include mine as well. UAW president Sean Faine
Speaker 2: was asked whether he was going to meet with Trump,
Speaker 2: and here's what he had to say. Quote, I see
Speaker 2: no point in meeting with him because I don't think
Speaker 2: the man has any bit of care about a workers
Speaker 2: stand for, what the working class stands for, and he
Speaker 2: serves the billionaire class. So I am curious if you
Speaker 2: guys think it was tactically it's a good move. We
Speaker 2: don't know what percentage the UAW of workers exactly voted
Speaker 2: for Trump. I would venture to guess what thirty forty
Speaker 2: percent something like that. Forty probably is too generous, so
Speaker 2: it's somewhere probably hired Okay, so it might be hired
Speaker 2: is a tacticle move. Then to outright is a good move.
Speaker 2: To outright like trash a candidate who maybe at least
Speaker 2: a decent portion of your membership is going to vote
Speaker 2: for or did vote for in the past. I'm not
Speaker 2: saying he may not be substantively correct, but is explicitly
Speaker 2: aligning yourself with the Democratic Party the correct thing to
Speaker 2: do when you're going to embrace Biden and then explicitly
Speaker 2: move Trump aside, which it only gives him even more
Speaker 2: of an incentive to union leadership.
Speaker 3: I'm curious what you guys said.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I think it forgets the fact that
Speaker 1: they pointedly did not endorse Biden when a lot of
Speaker 1: the other unions. So he's been very critical of Joe Biden.
Speaker 1: But you know, I don't think we give these workers
Speaker 1: enough credit for understanding the lay of the land. Auto
Speaker 1: working manufacturing jobs went down under Trump. He made a
Speaker 1: lot of promises to these I mean went to Lordstown
Speaker 1: and went to all of these different you know, places
Speaker 1: that have historic union auto plants and told them, don't
Speaker 1: sell your homes. The jobs are coming back. And it
Speaker 1: did not happen. Now, I think that that is a
Speaker 1: big part of the reason why he won Michigan in
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen and lost Michigan in twenty twenty. And also
Speaker 1: we don't talk enough about the fact that actually Joe
Speaker 1: Biden doubled the margin that Hillary Clinton still won union
Speaker 1: workers Joe Biden doubled that margin in twenty twenty. And
Speaker 1: I think it's exactly because more than anyone, they're tuned
Speaker 1: into the distance between the rhetoric and the reality. And listen,
Speaker 1: I'm you know, I think there was a lot of
Speaker 1: bait and switch going on with Trump and the way
Speaker 1: this event was portrayed what actually was which in reality
Speaker 1: it was an anti union event and invited there were yes,
Speaker 1: so he was he was invited by management to this
Speaker 1: non union shop. You know, there were and some of
Speaker 1: the people who help organize the event, we know, we're
Speaker 1: affiliated with the National Right to Work movement, which is
Speaker 1: like the union busting movement. Some of the workers that
Speaker 1: were interviewing the crowd, that were even holding up the
Speaker 1: like union workers for Trump signs were not union. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, it was just obviously very different than what
Speaker 1: was portrayed. And Ryan you pointed out most of it
Speaker 1: was just like a normal campaign speed basically. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: you know, many of these details may not seep through
Speaker 1: to the national public, but I can tell you this
Speaker 1: was huge news in Michigan. The local papers were covering
Speaker 1: it extensively. The local papers were covering extensively the comments
Speaker 1: from Sean Fain and also from other UAW leadership about
Speaker 1: the distance between Trump's rhetoric and what he actually does.
Speaker 1: And like I said, I think more than anybody they
Speaker 1: have seen the broken promises from him when it comes
Speaker 1: to labor. So do I think it's a mistake for
Speaker 1: Sean Fain to invite the presidence of picket line. You
Speaker 1: also have to think these workers are risking a lot
Speaker 1: to go out on strike and try to achieve better wages,
Speaker 1: better working conditions, etc. You think they're going to turn
Speaker 1: down either a Republican or do the President of the
Speaker 1: United States coming to stand with you, even if he's
Speaker 1: not your guy, even if you didn't vote for him,
Speaker 1: even if you're not going to vote for him, That
Speaker 1: is powerful leverage on your side. So no, I think
Speaker 1: I actually really appreciate the clarity of his language and
Speaker 1: the way that he's approached this, and the fact that
Speaker 1: he has been critical of Biden where they've fallen short
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say it was a mistake to invite Biden.
Speaker 2: Of course, you take it what you can get. I honestly, though,
Speaker 2: I think what Sean Fain may not understand though, is
Speaker 2: that he's actually making it easier for MAGA to code
Speaker 2: anti union in my opinion, because what it would mean
Speaker 2: and there are so look, I'm not gonna say Trump
Speaker 2: or many of the people work for him are pro union.
Speaker 2: But we were just talking about this earlier block, Emily,
Speaker 2: you and I were reviewing that polling from American companies
Speaker 2: forty percent of GOP voters support union, So I mean
Speaker 2: it's you know, it's not all of them, but it's some.
Speaker 2: And if for the unit of quote unquote union boss
Speaker 2: is explicitly gonna come out and trash Trump to a
Speaker 2: lot of people, because it's effectively a cult of personality party,
Speaker 2: they're gonna be like, Okay, we'll screw this guy, and
Speaker 2: then by extension, like possibly screw a union. I thought
Speaker 2: it was a mistake because I think it tactically makes
Speaker 2: it more difficult for a senator like Josh Holly just
Speaker 2: went to the picket line or other senators who I
Speaker 2: know are considering visiting the picket line. They will make
Speaker 2: them appear almost as if they are like crossing into
Speaker 2: democratic territory. And again I don't agree with that. I
Speaker 2: don't think that's the right thing. But I thought that
Speaker 2: his statement explicitly coming out trash Trump like that, I
Speaker 2: thought it was a tactical mistake. If he wants to
Speaker 2: achieve any sort of by partinership. If he doesn't, that's fine.
Speaker 2: I mean, maybe he thinks is the lost cost. It
Speaker 2: probably is, But I'm saying, like, if you want to
Speaker 2: even attempt to get it, it makes it more difficult.
Speaker 2: In my opinion, I'm curious, think, of course we need to.
Speaker 3: Get a response.
Speaker 11: Yeah, you know, I was thinking actually back to tea
Speaker 11: party times, and I'm thinking, you know, if someone had
Speaker 11: done what Donald Trump did last night, which was again
Speaker 11: like rhetoric versus results totally different, there's a gap there
Speaker 11: that I think, again, you could have actually had the
Speaker 11: Republican debate focus on that. In fact, and the Michigan
Speaker 11: question is huge. I think that's such a smart point.
Speaker 11: He though, has identified the single biggest wedge between workers
Speaker 11: and union support, which is the union leaders and UAW
Speaker 11: is particularly vulnerable to that, not because of Sean Faine,
Speaker 11: but because the people who came before have.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 11: Absolutely, and if in the Tea Party years you had
Speaker 11: somebody doing what was what Donald Trump did last night,
Speaker 11: which was this really like just he made this crystal
Speaker 11: clear wedge driving trying to drive between the workers and
Speaker 11: the leadership, which is just tactically smart. I'm not talking
Speaker 11: about it substantively, but tactically that is the only shot
Speaker 11: Republicans have at like really, if they're not going to
Speaker 11: go full pro union, that's the only way that they
Speaker 11: can possibly start to appeal to some of these workers.
Speaker 11: He did it it very boldly, and that was like
Speaker 11: Republicans have never been able to do that, They've never
Speaker 11: even thought to do that. At the same time, I
Speaker 11: do think it's very very true that Trump is the
Speaker 11: rhetoric versus results in places like Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin are
Speaker 11: going to be a real problem for him because people
Speaker 11: think of like union membership in Michigan it's probably like
Speaker 11: one in every five household something that you guys might.
Speaker 3: It's like sixty six thousand, that's a really big deal.
Speaker 11: It might not sound like it but it's a really
Speaker 11: big deal because there's a ripple effect into families and
Speaker 11: there's a ripple effect into communities, and so actually this
Speaker 11: is huge news. And Sean Fain coming out and just
Speaker 11: going hardcore against Trump. On the one hand, it does
Speaker 11: make it easier for Trump. On the other hand, it
Speaker 11: makes it harder for Trump. It's just like two, there's
Speaker 11: two sides to it.
Speaker 3: I think I could see it.
Speaker 1: I mean, Ryan, I wonder if you have thoughts on
Speaker 1: Biden ran his first actually ran it during the debate,
Speaker 1: direct ad against Trump, and it was about unions and wages.
Speaker 1: And when I see that, I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: Democrats maybe finally figured out how to run against this guy.
Speaker 1: And I to me, the rhetoric from Sean Faine is
Speaker 1: also very effective because it's like this guy is the problem.
Speaker 1: He's the billionaire class. The first time that Democrats tried
Speaker 1: to run against Trump in twenty sixteen, it was like,
Speaker 1: he's not a real billionaire. We have the real billionaires
Speaker 1: on our side.
Speaker 3: He's actually not a bad thing, right.
Speaker 1: And so now when I saw that ad, that was like,
Speaker 1: no that you know, the I think it was like
Speaker 1: Donald Trump talks and Joe Biden delivers actually thought it
Speaker 1: was effective, and I thought it could potentially land in
Speaker 1: states like Michigan, Wisconsin where they know very viscerally like
Speaker 1: those plants and those jobs that were supposed to be
Speaker 1: here under Trump. Guess what they did not come back
Speaker 1: and Trump lost again.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 15: And what I think it shows is that if Democrats
Speaker 15: actually do something, even the minimal amount for workers, then
Speaker 15: it really puts Republicans on the spot, like it puts
Speaker 15: Trump on the spot when Trump is running against Hillary Clinton,
Speaker 15: that he can just say I'm for workers.
Speaker 14: She's terrible, and the workers are like, yeah.
Speaker 15: She probably would have let the Detroit go bankrupt, like
Speaker 15: the reason Obama wins Michigan in twenty twelve because they
Speaker 15: saved Detroit. Nobody believed that Hillary would have done the
Speaker 15: same thing. So Trump then can get away with just
Speaker 15: like some like surface level pro worker stuff. Once you've
Speaker 15: got Biden actually doing things like going to a picket line,
Speaker 15: then you actually have to peel back what Trump is
Speaker 15: saying a little bit. It's like, Okay, Sean Fain says,
Speaker 15: they want a forty percent raise, and they want like
Speaker 15: all of these ev plants to be unionized, and they
Speaker 15: want access to these plants. What's Trump saying. Trump is
Speaker 15: saying you're picketing the wrong place. You should endorse me
Speaker 15: me me, me, me me, And all of a sudden
Speaker 15: that starts to fall apart. You're like, Okay, he says
Speaker 15: he's for the workers, but he's not. Is he for
Speaker 15: our forty percent rais he didn't say he was. Is
Speaker 15: he for us being able to unionize ev plants? Or
Speaker 15: does he just not want EV plants to exist?
Speaker 3: I think yeah, yeah.
Speaker 15: And then so then the workers are like, okay, well,
Speaker 15: once you are on board with our agenda, then you
Speaker 15: come to the picket line in march with us. If
Speaker 15: you're not on board with our agenda, we're going to
Speaker 15: march with the guy who is okay.
Speaker 11: And to Crystal's point, I think that's the big thing,
Speaker 11: Like Republicans still are not willing to go full like, yes,
Speaker 11: unionize the ev plants, and so Trump knows his only
Speaker 11: his best option is to say no ev plants, because
Speaker 11: if you're not willing to take that step, that's the
Speaker 11: only way that you can go.
Speaker 3: I think you guys are right.
Speaker 2: At the same time, he did he didn't just regale
Speaker 2: the audience around Eve's. He also, Ryan, you pulled this
Speaker 2: for us to give people. He basically just turned it
Speaker 2: into a rally and gave some some of his more
Speaker 2: classic riffs.
Speaker 3: That's one of his Ryan's favorite.
Speaker 16: You signed this first day I was in office.
Speaker 6: I said, what is it.
Speaker 16: It's a new Air Force one. It's five point seven billion.
Speaker 16: I said, that sounds like a lot of money for
Speaker 16: a plane. It's actually two planes, by the way, but
Speaker 16: they go over at air Force one.
Speaker 9: They're identical. I mean, even the wood grin.
Speaker 16: You can't tell the difference.
Speaker 8: I could tell because it was a little nick in
Speaker 8: one desk that wasn't on the other, so I could
Speaker 8: say that's one on the other ones too. So the
Speaker 8: head of Bow came in and he said, sir, we
Speaker 8: have to get five point seven.
Speaker 16: I said, nope, I'm not doing it. I was supposed
Speaker 16: to sign it. I said, I'm not doing it. Not
Speaker 16: for five point seven.
Speaker 11: It has to have a three on it.
Speaker 16: I didn't know what that meant, except I knew where
Speaker 16: it was a hell of.
Speaker 8: A cut, right right right, Al sir, We'll do it
Speaker 8: for three billion, nine hundred and ninety nine million, nine
Speaker 8: hundred nine nine nine nine nine.
Speaker 16: And ninety nine cents, right, And I said, you have
Speaker 16: yourself a deal. So I saved one point seven billion
Speaker 16: dollars on that plane.
Speaker 3: I was very careful.
Speaker 9: Does anybody give me credit for that?
Speaker 3: No, I losing it.
Speaker 1: If you're a Republican, how are you going to compete
Speaker 1: with that?
Speaker 9: Right?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't compete with that.
Speaker 11: You're good.
Speaker 3: I do agree that Air Force one is too expensive.
Speaker 3: I will ridiculously that's Lucris air Force one. He also
Speaker 3: is a common misconception.
Speaker 2: Air Force one is only the plane in which the
Speaker 2: president is on, of which we all know from the
Speaker 2: movie Air Force One.
Speaker 3: What else?
Speaker 2: Actually, my last take on this aesthetics of which we
Speaker 2: will get into a little bit, is I did think
Speaker 2: his new color scheme was better the red, white, and
Speaker 2: blue as opposed to the JFK blue, and.
Speaker 14: Should have gone into that to make us want to
Speaker 14: be extended riff.
Speaker 1: A substantive point about that, not that all of your
Speaker 1: highly substance about the color scheme. Humor is such a weapon.
Speaker 1: Humor is such a weapon. And that's one of the
Speaker 1: things that every one of those like dreadful people on
Speaker 1: stage last night are completely lid.
Speaker 11: There was not I can't think of Donald Duck.
Speaker 1: I'm cad thinking of a single moment of levity, Like
Speaker 1: it was all just like pain and right exactly. There
Speaker 1: may have been some unintentional humor all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: like when ron to Santa said he visited Ronald Reagan's gravesite, like,
Speaker 1: you know, just trying to play into this as much
Speaker 1: as possible. Anyway, no humor whatsoever. It was another I
Speaker 1: mean Obama was also funny. He had comedic timing and
Speaker 1: land a joke George W.
Speaker 4: Bush.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it really maybe it shouldn't be this way,
Speaker 1: it should be about the substance or whatever, but it
Speaker 1: really is so powerful and so difficult to overcome when
Speaker 1: you're up against someone who is actually just genuinely funny.
Speaker 1: Whether you like him or hate him or anything, I
Speaker 1: totally agree.
Speaker 2: I also think Obama was unfairly slandered for your likable
Speaker 2: enough Hillary.
Speaker 3: I thought it was a great lie. I don't think
Speaker 3: he took way too.
Speaker 11: Much for it. There was a moment where the moderators
Speaker 11: last night asked them if they could be the next
Speaker 11: Ronald Reagan, essentially meaning that they could have like a
Speaker 11: generational pull, like could you have a legacy like Ronald
Speaker 11: Reagan's was essentially the question. And it's a perfect question
Speaker 11: when all of them are down by what forty points
Speaker 11: and the leader's not on stage, because you look at
Speaker 11: it and you say, absolutely not, and partially for that.
Speaker 11: First of all, Reagan was very charismatic, was hilarious, and
Speaker 11: they none of nobody on that stage has that. And
Speaker 11: Donald Trump is out you up in Detroit riffing. It's
Speaker 11: such a clear contrast. There's not one person who stands
Speaker 11: out like that. And I think some of them are
Speaker 11: talented politicians. I think Tim Scott's a talented politician. I
Speaker 11: think Rond DeSantis when he was in his moment twenty twenty,
Speaker 11: twenty twenty one, was a talented politician on the state level.
Speaker 11: He hasn't been able to translate it nationally, and that
Speaker 11: contrast is glaring.
Speaker 1: I am I am fascinated by how Ronda Santa struggles
Speaker 1: with his face.
Speaker 11: Oh my god, I.
Speaker 1: Really, I mean, I'm just like you.
Speaker 9: You don't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is, and I think that's exacerbating it the
Speaker 1: whole time, and like you don't know how to just
Speaker 1: like exist without doing something like moving around anyway.
Speaker 11: I actually do too.
Speaker 1: At this point, you know, it's like, now that he's
Speaker 1: no longer a threat to anyone or anything, I just
Speaker 1: feel uncomfortable looking at these weird faces that you can't
Speaker 1: help himselfver make it.
Speaker 11: It's the smile. It's when he tries to laugh yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, or when he thinks he lands a point,
Speaker 1: and then there's this like, oh, stop, stop, Let's move
Speaker 1: on to another big story outside of the debate that
Speaker 1: has been ongoing here in DC, which I'm actually there's
Speaker 1: a couple elements of this that have become very interesting.
Speaker 1: You guys over the Intercept have done some great reporting
Speaker 1: about some of the subtexts of this indictment. Put us
Speaker 1: up on the screen, which is really fascinating, So Ken
Speaker 1: tweet it out here. Egyptian intelligence may have been trying
Speaker 1: to recruit Senator Bob Menendez as a spy, according to
Speaker 1: four former CIA officers. Let me go ahead and read
Speaker 1: you a little bit of this report, they said. National
Speaker 1: security experts say the indictment's reference to Egyptian intelligence officials
Speaker 1: and Menendez, this disclosure of highly sensitive and non public
Speaker 1: info to Egyptian officials suggest that more than a garden
Speaker 1: variety corruption scheme there may be an intelligence element to
Speaker 1: the charges. Egypt's elicitation of information resembles a textbook recruitment pass,
Speaker 1: an intelligence operation intended to recruit an asset for former
Speaker 1: CIA officers told the Intercept, what more can you tell
Speaker 1: us about this ran?
Speaker 15: It goes back to the question of whether or not
Speaker 15: an asset is recruitable. You have to as an intelligence agency,
Speaker 15: you have to try to figure out whether or not
Speaker 15: this person is someone you can get. Actually, and back
Speaker 15: in twenty fifteen twenty sixteen, when people were accusing Trump
Speaker 15: of being a Russian asset, I asked.
Speaker 14: Some CIA folks.
Speaker 15: They're like, he's what we would call an unrecruitable asset. Yes,
Speaker 15: it's like because you can't trust him with any information.
Speaker 9: I don't know.
Speaker 15: You might be able to manipulate him for your own advantage,
Speaker 15: but you absolutely he cannot be.
Speaker 14: A recruited asset.
Speaker 15: And so the way that you start with some of
Speaker 15: these assets is you ask for small things that aren't
Speaker 15: necessarily damaging, but that they know.
Speaker 14: They're not supposed to give you.
Speaker 15: And the key one here that they asked was the
Speaker 15: size and details about the Egyptian the US embassy in Cairo,
Speaker 15: because that is known to be a center of kind
Speaker 15: of intelligence activity. Most all embassies are at some level,
Speaker 15: but certainly the one in Cairo is. And so for
Speaker 15: Menendez to give non public information about that is a
Speaker 15: useful to the intelligence operations of not just the Egyptians,
Speaker 15: but the Emiraldis who basically run the Egyptians to see operation.
Speaker 15: But it's a sign that Okay, he's willing to cross lines.
Speaker 3: Which is what he did.
Speaker 2: I mean, what is it He got the nonpublic information
Speaker 2: as the Senate Foreign Relations chairman, he checked what he
Speaker 2: texted it to his wife.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then his wife related to the man who.
Speaker 2: Bought her a very nice Mercedes who she then thanked
Speaker 2: by a text mess allegedly all this, it's all a
Speaker 2: little bit stunting. Christly, you flagged this. Let's go ahead,
Speaker 2: put this up there on the screen. Currently, there are
Speaker 2: what is it twenty eight senators Democratic senator that have
Speaker 2: come out, so more than half the caucus actually, who
Speaker 2: have called for Senator Menendez to resign. However, not one
Speaker 2: Republican has come out to say that Menandez should resign.
Speaker 2: The only one I saw was John Cornyn who said, quote,
Speaker 2: I think all my democratic colleagues should resign.
Speaker 1: A good line.
Speaker 3: Let's give it to him. It is a good line.
Speaker 3: And I was curious Emily for your take as to why.
Speaker 2: I think it's because if you say that and they
Speaker 2: should resign, it then impunes Trump because it would imply
Speaker 2: that indictment is, you know, in any way like some
Speaker 2: sort of fact pattern that correlates to guilt, and that
Speaker 2: they don't want to box himself into a corner and
Speaker 2: they would rather just let the Dems like play into
Speaker 2: it on their own.
Speaker 9: What do you think?
Speaker 11: Yeah, I think, first of all, that's right. But second
Speaker 11: of all, it's a wonderful political tool to have the
Speaker 11: Senate foreign relationship, and I know he stepped down from that,
Speaker 11: but to have him still sitting as a member of
Speaker 11: the Senate is a wonderful political tool. So why call
Speaker 11: for him to resign? That's when you can continue to
Speaker 11: say Democrats have a likely Egyptian asset someone as corrupt
Speaker 11: as Menendez in the Senate. But the other problem with that, though,
Speaker 11: is all the Democratic senators have essentially neutralized that line
Speaker 11: of attack by calling for him to resign. Yeah, has
Speaker 11: Biden called on him?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 5: No, not.
Speaker 11: That's a big problem for the Democrats.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Schumer has it either. I mean, it's wild.
Speaker 1: So I've got Tom Cotton and Mark Rubio. But Tom
Speaker 1: Cotton went into detail. Actually it sort of like overtly
Speaker 1: came out to defend Menandez, and I think his reasoning
Speaker 1: is illustrated. He says, the charges against the er Menendez
Speaker 1: are serious and troubling. At the same time, the Department
Speaker 1: of Justice has a troubling record of failure in corruption
Speaker 1: in cases against public figures, from Ted Stevens to Bob
Speaker 1: McDonald to Donald Trump to Bob Menendez the last time around.
Speaker 1: Sarah Menndez has a right to test the government's evidence
Speaker 1: in court just like any other citizen. He should be
Speaker 1: judged by jurors and New Jersey's voters, not by Democratic
Speaker 1: politicians who now view him as inconvenient to their hold
Speaker 1: on power. Which is like that part is kind of ridiculous,
Speaker 1: given the fact that they intentionally made him chair of
Speaker 1: this very powerful committee. But Ryan, what is going on
Speaker 1: here with because I didn't actually see this coming, I thought,
Speaker 1: because you know, Republicans, Yeah, I get they look like
Speaker 1: hypocrites if they call him out, but not Trump or whatever.
Speaker 1: But they're willing to be hypocrites in any manner of
Speaker 1: other ways. So why was this the bridge too far
Speaker 1: where they felt the need to back up this man
Speaker 1: who was charged with the most cartoonish levels of government
Speaker 1: corruption that you can possibly imagine.
Speaker 15: I think it goes partly back to what Emily is saying.
Speaker 15: There's that famous Napoleon line where he says, you know,
Speaker 15: never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake.
Speaker 14: So just let me let Democrats keep foundering on this.
Speaker 15: But also I think they want to break all the
Speaker 15: norms around this stuff, and this helps break the norm
Speaker 15: because the norm would be that if a president is
Speaker 15: convicted or even indicted under these types of circumstances, that
Speaker 15: he would you go away out of public life, like
Speaker 15: that's the old norm. That obviously Trump is not doing that,
Speaker 15: and so to make it seem a little bit normal
Speaker 15: for him not to do that, you have to smash
Speaker 15: all these other ones. And so if you just kind
Speaker 15: of push push through this and you have it corruption everywhere,
Speaker 15: then it's like, well everybody's corrupt, so who cares?
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 11: I was just going to quick add there's this sort
Speaker 11: of bubbling idea on the writer theory on the right
Speaker 11: that and I think it's echoed in Tom Cotton's statement, Yeah,
Speaker 11: menandaz became inconvenient because of his positions on Iran and
Speaker 11: Cuba based on what the Biden administration wants to do
Speaker 11: or people in the Biden administration want to do. I
Speaker 11: know it sounds, but that is the deep state. Basically
Speaker 11: it came out to something.
Speaker 2: Right, if the deep state is going on, is that
Speaker 2: that wouldn't hold water because they wouldn't gotten rid of
Speaker 2: him way before that and they wouldn't have.
Speaker 3: Him committee Like, it doesn't make any sense. I mean,
Speaker 3: I think it's just Trump.
Speaker 2: I honestly think Trump is the I think in five
Speaker 2: ten years ago they would have called him to resigned.
Speaker 2: I think now with Trump on her indictment, any just
Speaker 2: saying that an elected official should resign because of said indictment,
Speaker 2: They're like, well, why would we then have to go
Speaker 2: walk down the hallway and be like why should Senate
Speaker 2: Ninnas design if Donald Trump shouldn't run a president?
Speaker 3: And they would rather not get into it.
Speaker 2: And so the two who are willing to come out
Speaker 2: and speak for Tom Cotton, Mark or Rubio, those are
Speaker 2: more ambitious politicians. They probably want to get on Trump's
Speaker 2: good side. Whenever they say something like that. The rest
Speaker 2: of them they're just happy to stay.
Speaker 11: Quiet or they want Menanda's there because of his position.
Speaker 3: God, not a good point, but also the good point.
Speaker 15: Do these guys not have signal and disappearing messages? The
Speaker 15: Senate Foreign Relationship?
Speaker 14: They have not cracked sigma yet signals secure?
Speaker 3: Well, we don't know, I don't know if that don't people.
Speaker 11: Yeah, no, it didn't work for the DC government.
Speaker 3: I think they did crack. I thought. I think they
Speaker 3: got it back.
Speaker 15: They can crack it if Pegasust gets onto your face.
Speaker 15: But as long as you're not on the phone. Everybody's
Speaker 15: probably on his phone.
Speaker 1: But you know, I do find it really disturbing, even
Speaker 1: him Cotton like overtly backing up the Supreme Courts. I mean,
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court has basically made it so that corruption
Speaker 1: the definition of corruption is literally like getting a stack
Speaker 1: of cash and saying on camera like I am taking
Speaker 1: this cash to do your bidding in this specific way.
Speaker 1: And this does go back to the Bob McDonald case
Speaker 1: in particular. And so you know, the Republican Party at
Speaker 1: times has talked a big game about corruption very recently,
Speaker 1: and so for them now to totally back away from
Speaker 1: that and just completely get on the side of like, yeah,
Speaker 1: what even is corruption and who really cares?
Speaker 11: And of course the bump.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I just I do find it like
Speaker 1: it sucks. It just sucks that they would take this
Speaker 1: position basically in favor of government corruption and jank you
Speaker 1: or who we're having on the show today in person,
Speaker 1: which we're excited about. He actually made a really clever point,
Speaker 1: which is like, you know what Menanda should do. He
Speaker 1: should flip parties, make the deep state point, and he'll
Speaker 1: be good to go because no evidence those a golden
Speaker 1: bars and closet whatever. No, it's the deep state there
Speaker 1: want to get you because of your sanctions on Cuba
Speaker 1: or whatever. That would work for really, it was.
Speaker 14: A perfect text message.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, perfect, exactly exactly just Cuban you know.
Speaker 11: Oh, and he's already been trying that. He's already been trying.
Speaker 11: Its the Republicans now, so you can get better.
Speaker 3: So it all works for.
Speaker 2: Him, Okay, free advicement and does to the last block,
Speaker 2: the most important block to me personally, it's not true.
Speaker 3: Okay, it's a joke. Let's go and put this up
Speaker 3: not in dro.
Speaker 2: The Senate has adopted by unans Senate Resolution three seventy six,
Speaker 2: the Shorts Act, which stands for Show our Respect to
Speaker 2: the Senate, introduced by Senator Joe Manchin. We now officially
Speaker 2: have a dress code in place on the Senate floor.
Speaker 2: It will require a coat, a tie, long pants of
Speaker 2: some sort of slack of which now personally even think
Speaker 2: he should weark he's on the Senate floor. But you know,
Speaker 2: I guess this is willing to It's got a compromise,
Speaker 2: a little failure, willing to have a conference here. This
Speaker 2: comes after Senator John Fetterman and Senator Cinema frequently violated
Speaker 2: said dress code.
Speaker 3: There was never actually an official dress code that was
Speaker 3: on the floor.
Speaker 2: For those who were wondering, the way that this all
Speaker 2: happened is that Senator Schumer instructed the Sergeant of Arms
Speaker 2: not to enforce the unformal dress code, which was kind
Speaker 2: of written in the rules previously allowing Fetterman to preside
Speaker 2: and be on the Senate floor in his signature shirt slash,
Speaker 2: hoodies and shorts and sneakers, and his colleagues rebelled. Now
Speaker 2: Fetterman himself has back down completely after talking a lot
Speaker 2: of big game. I would just say on Twitter along
Speaker 2: with the staffs put this up there on the scene.
Speaker 1: He's got a strong social media I can't. You cannot
Speaker 1: deny that.
Speaker 3: I will deny because.
Speaker 2: Because they talked a massive game, and then he doesn't
Speaker 2: even object to the resolution where all of his colleagues
Speaker 2: are like, no, you look like a disgusting ogre.
Speaker 1: No, because he he actually has his eyes on the
Speaker 1: prize of things that are matter, unlike this stupid story.
Speaker 2: To this, Fedator Fetterman has said during democratic lunch he
Speaker 2: will wear a suit now when speaking or presiding over
Speaker 2: the chamber, and if not in the suit, he will
Speaker 2: vote from the cloak room. So he is completely caved
Speaker 2: after talking such a big game about how oh he
Speaker 2: was standing up and all of this.
Speaker 3: I you know what I think, Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 1: I think that this is a war on men.
Speaker 3: Oh, because why is it we should have been.
Speaker 1: That Senator Fetterman is getting so much scrutiny when Kirsen
Speaker 1: Cinema is a serial violator. Why don't people say anything? Absolutely,
Speaker 1: I think this is a war on men, and I
Speaker 1: will not stand for I agree with you.
Speaker 2: And that's the point that I made in my monologue,
Speaker 2: because it's actually a by it's a by gender. I
Speaker 2: guess if you could say a problem that we've had
Speaker 2: in the Senate, I do think and.
Speaker 9: I wanted to.
Speaker 3: Of course, everybody knows what I think about this, and
Speaker 3: I thought it was funny.
Speaker 2: I however in terms of the biggest sticking point that
Speaker 2: I had, And I'm sure and Christal you already agree
Speaker 2: with me this, so Ryan, I'm sure you as well,
Speaker 2: especially because you've been a reporter on Capitol Hill. Don't
Speaker 2: you think it is complete bs that thet aff and
Speaker 2: the pages still had to wear coat and ties, but
Speaker 2: it only applied for Fetterman and for Cinema. Basically, the
Speaker 2: help still had to dress up. You've had to wear
Speaker 2: a coat and tie on the end. I've had to
Speaker 2: do it too, whenever we go into those you know,
Speaker 2: the chamber or whatever, or in some of those places
Speaker 2: where it's only press and senators or congress people who
Speaker 2: are allowed. It's like we all had to abide by
Speaker 2: the dress code, but they set the rules so that
Speaker 2: only he and Cinema didn't have to abide it.
Speaker 3: You have to at least admit that was it.
Speaker 14: Would be pretty cool if pages and Turns were able
Speaker 14: to wear.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I favor mister Populus didn't push for the pages
Speaker 2: to be able to address badly only for himself.
Speaker 15: Let's see clear of us. That's a fair point, Okay.
Speaker 15: To me, anything that undermines respect for the Senate is
Speaker 15: a good thing.
Speaker 9: Okay.
Speaker 3: So I've heard this take. I don't agree with it,
Speaker 3: but you can listen to this.
Speaker 11: It's a good take.
Speaker 1: I just agree to Look, I just think Fetterman when
Speaker 1: he came out as the first Democratic senator to actually
Speaker 1: call in Menendez to resign, and it has been very
Speaker 1: direct and forceable about it, and also his half we're
Speaker 1: completely mocking him saying we're going to return his donation.
Speaker 3: And like cash stuff.
Speaker 1: End one.
Speaker 3: I like to take one's the week.
Speaker 1: I don't care what happened with the I've never cared
Speaker 1: about what happens with the dress code. I still don't
Speaker 1: care what happened with the dress code. He was on
Speaker 1: the picket line. He was the first down to call
Speaker 1: for Menandez to resign, which has helped to open up
Speaker 1: the floodgates of people actually saying the thing that is
Speaker 1: like totally obvious that of course this man should not
Speaker 1: be in a position of power. So I am one
Speaker 1: hundred percent team Fetterman on this week.
Speaker 3: In all respects. I think on policy it was a
Speaker 3: good week for him. I agree with you. I also
Speaker 3: I'll even give him credit for this.
Speaker 2: He gave a fantastic speech at hearing about banning the
Speaker 2: Chinese Gomberes party from being able to buy farmland in
Speaker 2: the state of Pennsylvania. Yeah, it's a long standing problem
Speaker 2: that we've had, So I will also give him this.
Speaker 2: I just think he should be wearing a suit when
Speaker 2: he's on the second floor. I don't think it's a
Speaker 2: co you want take the w I'm here, this is
Speaker 2: my super.
Speaker 14: Bowl about what about this new zip puddies that like
Speaker 14: people are.
Speaker 11: I do think Soccer has his finger on the pulse
Speaker 11: of something, which is that this does It is I
Speaker 11: think very obviously a proxy for how people feel about
Speaker 11: like the country right now and people's standards, and so
Speaker 11: I don't think it's entirely unimportant. I think like the
Speaker 11: public actually there's a segment of the public that's like,
Speaker 11: you gotta be thing kidding me, Like my paycheck is
Speaker 11: going down, Like Bob, I agree with that but I
Speaker 11: also think some people are like, come on, like they
Speaker 11: go to church and everybody's in genes and it does
Speaker 11: honestly bother them, And so I don't think it's entirely
Speaker 11: out of the realm of what matters.
Speaker 1: I think it's very I think it has really exposed
Speaker 1: the priorities of media and the political class that have listened.
Speaker 1: We don't okay our show. Okay, fine, we talked about
Speaker 1: Menandez and we're talking about the dress code ridiculous silliness
Speaker 1: that it deserves. Okay, but how much time is spent
Speaker 1: on this whole dress code situation, especially over on Fox News.
Speaker 1: That's just like, you know, the millions of kids that
Speaker 1: fell into poverty, Bob Menendez being incredibly corrected, like a
Speaker 1: million issues that are going on that are actually substantive,
Speaker 1: and you got Joe Manchin, who I would take John
Speaker 1: in a song over no mansion in anything, every freaking
Speaker 1: day of the week, and he is now like the
Speaker 1: hero of this. It shows me that the screwed up
Speaker 1: priorities in the Senate that they would spend so much
Speaker 1: time talking about those, in debating those, etcetera. It shows
Speaker 1: me the screwed up priorities of the news media.
Speaker 3: And that's what I have to say about that Ryan
Speaker 3: last word.
Speaker 15: But I think tactically he looked more absurd than usual
Speaker 15: where it was that unicolor like, yeah, I actually said that.
Speaker 14: I used a mark wating, though.
Speaker 2: I used a Marxist term for you guys actually contract
Speaker 2: the contraction. Think he dressed so repulsively to the average
Speaker 2: eye and made it so obvious where Cinema when she
Speaker 2: breaks dressed, she just dresses like an idiot, you know,
Speaker 2: or like a met Gala wanna be, whereas genuinely looks
Speaker 2: horrib I.
Speaker 1: Find Cinema's attired to be so much more so.
Speaker 3: She greates I'll put it that way.
Speaker 2: He repulses me, she grates me, and she grates me.
Speaker 2: Though actually the grating might be worse, as you said,
Speaker 2: because it on her lies a lot of attention seeking narcissism.
Speaker 2: And the what was the shirt that she wore when
Speaker 2: she was presiding. It was like something you would buy
Speaker 2: like for a teenager from limited to and like it
Speaker 2: bejeweled across it, so it.
Speaker 4: Was it was bad.
Speaker 3: Okay, why do you even know about limited to?
Speaker 1: I think she used general cultural knowledge anyway.
Speaker 3: I would just say we won, we beat them. Ugliness
Speaker 3: will not Ugliness will not prevail in the long run.
Speaker 3: I've always believed that this is a bit. I don't
Speaker 3: think it went on all tactical.
Speaker 2: Ryan Emily, I want to thank you guys so much
Speaker 2: for joining us. This was a lot of fun for
Speaker 2: the breakdown. I'm also glad we didn't spend the whole
Speaker 2: time on the debate because of God, it was.
Speaker 1: Like there just wasn't enough there to pretend to like
Speaker 1: it was. It mattered. Okay, last question on the debate
Speaker 1: to wrap it up. Do you think anything changes in
Speaker 1: the polls? Absolutely not, anything changes in the polls significantly.
Speaker 11: I don't even think it changes like that at all.
Speaker 3: I don't think anything moves anywhere outside of the.
Speaker 1: I think Haley may follow a couple of points.
Speaker 11: O interesting, that's mine because she did get a first
Speaker 11: debate bomb.
Speaker 1: She was the one person who got bomb. Curtain curtain gage, devastating, devastating,
Speaker 1: the Obama curtains.
Speaker 11: Inside inside baseball and wrap it all up and bring
Speaker 11: it off full circle. I want to say that they
Speaker 11: got into a shouting match before we started taping about Fetterman.
Speaker 1: So what you saw was also what happened off that's actually.
Speaker 3: We have Shank Huger standing by. Let's get to it.
Speaker 1: Auspicious day here at breaking Points. We have a very
Speaker 1: special guest joining us in studio, Jank Huger. He is
Speaker 1: the creator of the Young Turks and also author of
Speaker 1: the brand new book that we have here, how progressives
Speaker 1: are going to take over the country and America is
Speaker 1: going to love it. Oh I skipped the main title,
Speaker 1: which is Justice is Coming.
Speaker 9: Indeed, yes, right now, Yes, you have arrived.
Speaker 1: Justice is arrived. It's great to see you. I know
Speaker 1: you went through some links with the Red Eye and
Speaker 1: all that to be able to get here, and we're
Speaker 1: really grateful.
Speaker 9: No problem, thank you.
Speaker 1: So before we get into the book, any big hot
Speaker 1: takes from the debate last night is Doug Burger I'm
Speaker 1: going to surge into zero point six percent of the vote.
Speaker 1: What do you think?
Speaker 9: Well, I actually kind of liked Doug Burghram.
Speaker 13: I thought he made some practical points, had actually done
Speaker 13: some things in his life, and he was the only
Speaker 13: one that was actually trying to be substantive. Okay, Having
Speaker 13: said that, no, he will not surge two point six.
Speaker 13: So look, I've got as similar take as a lot
Speaker 13: of folks do. It was a mess and it looked
Speaker 13: like the kid's table. They're constantly talking over each other.
Speaker 13: They're running for a second. Although I thought the Sanders
Speaker 13: was a little strong last night, stronger than he normally is,
Speaker 13: with a weird smile and all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he's a little better than the first dight.
Speaker 9: Yeah yeah, but all that.
Speaker 13: Notwithstanding, both Democrats and Reporicans don't really know how to
Speaker 13: hit Donald Trump. Chris Christy is the closest that Liasy's
Speaker 13: aggressive and not shy about not scared. He's the only
Speaker 13: person in neither party not scared of Trump, having said
Speaker 13: that I have a thousand better ways to hit Donald Trump,
Speaker 13: and they just won't do it. You should put a
Speaker 13: nickname on him, spoil Donnie. He got four hundred million
Speaker 13: dollars from his dad. He blew it all, he says,
Speaker 13: spoiled little child. And then when the country took his
Speaker 13: toy away, which is the American government, he wanted to
Speaker 13: break the toy.
Speaker 9: Right, That's who he is, spoiled little baby.
Speaker 13: You have to undercut his strength, and they keep the
Speaker 13: Democrats keep calling him racist, sexist, bigot, et cetera.
Speaker 9: Dude, everybody already knows that.
Speaker 13: And for a lot of those voters, unfortunately, that's not
Speaker 13: the bug, that's the feature. But even so, it's not
Speaker 13: all folks who are you know, there's a lot of
Speaker 13: anti establishment people there, especially among independents. You need to
Speaker 13: deliver on issues, and you need to attack and where
Speaker 13: it hurts. He's a terrible businessman. He's weak, insecure, a
Speaker 13: baby undercut his strength instead of constantly feeding into he's
Speaker 13: too strong.
Speaker 9: Oh, that's a terrible way of attacking him.
Speaker 2: That's tough because a lot of Republicans loved Trum and
Speaker 2: they don't even I mean, anything that codes that way
Speaker 2: they're going to say is liberal. But I'm curious actually
Speaker 2: about why you decided to write this book in the
Speaker 2: middle of the Biden era and what you see as
Speaker 2: the justice coming, how the progressives are going to take
Speaker 2: over in the middle of an administration which has probably
Speaker 2: been middling from your guys' perspective.
Speaker 3: So why do you think that this is the tide
Speaker 3: going in there?
Speaker 13: Yeah, So I'm really worried about twenty twenty four, which
Speaker 13: we'll probably get into in a second. Yeah, for sure,
Speaker 13: But after twenty twenty four, it's all us. So I
Speaker 13: explained in chapter six this is not false. Ope, it's
Speaker 13: backed up by overwhelming data. So the young are incredibly progressive.
Speaker 13: The top republic impulsor, Frank Lunz, has his two pay
Speaker 13: on fire. He's like they're coming, and I showed in
Speaker 13: the book even states that Bernie Sanders loss in twenty twenty,
Speaker 13: he wins with crushing margins for under forty five. Under
Speaker 13: forty five's is it really still a hung And this
Speaker 13: selection is going to be under forty nine, and by
Speaker 13: twenty and twenty eight it's going to be under fifty four,
Speaker 13: and then we've got a majority, and so we could
Speaker 13: win a Democratic primary and we could win a general election.
Speaker 13: So it's actually all we have to do is make
Speaker 13: sure that we don't snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Speaker 13: There's no question we're going to win in the long run.
Speaker 13: It isn't about race, it isn't about sex, it isn't
Speaker 13: about gender identity, it's about age. We have the young
Speaker 13: on our side, and it is a tsunami. But we
Speaker 13: just can't lose democracy in twenty twenty four. And that's
Speaker 13: what I'm really worried about.
Speaker 9: Biden.
Speaker 1: Interesting how is this different from the arguments that were
Speaker 1: made about the quote unquote coalition of the Ascendant and
Speaker 1: the idea that you know, demographics are destiny and therefore,
Speaker 1: you know, the Republicans are going to be vanquished and
Speaker 1: then we end up getting Donald Trump and it turns out,
Speaker 1: you know, Latinos have been shifting. Democrats still win Latinos,
Speaker 1: but there has been a notable shift there. There's been
Speaker 1: some shift, even a more marginal among black voters and
Speaker 1: black men in particular. So isn't it a little bit
Speaker 1: too triumphant to assume that these demographic groups that support
Speaker 1: progressive values and tend to support democratic democra right now
Speaker 1: are just going to continue to vote in the same
Speaker 1: way that they have historically.
Speaker 9: Yeah, so there's a great question. So there's a couple
Speaker 9: of very important differences.
Speaker 13: So, first of all, Democrats took those minority demographics for granted.
Speaker 13: They're like, oh, black people and Latinos are always going
Speaker 13: to vote for us, we don't actually have to deliver
Speaker 13: for them. So, for example, this time around, Bare Minimum
Speaker 13: was voting rights, and then they didn't do voting rights right.
Speaker 13: They didn't even really try to do voting rights. They
Speaker 13: almost never deliver on those things. Joe Biden has delivered
Speaker 13: on about twenty twenty five percent of his agenda, but
Speaker 13: not nearly good enough. You have to and you see
Speaker 13: the discontent in African American media like Charlemagne and others, etc. Latinos.
Speaker 13: Now Trump's up to forty two percent. So just saying hey,
Speaker 13: you're black or you're brown, vote.
Speaker 9: For me is not good enough.
Speaker 13: Right, But for young people, they're not going to all
Speaker 13: of a sudden turn around and hate gay people, hate
Speaker 13: black people.
Speaker 9: Their identity is usually set.
Speaker 13: As I explained the book, Meta studies show between the
Speaker 13: ages of fourteen and twenty four, and once it is set,
Speaker 13: it does not change. So they're not going to random
Speaker 13: turned into hateful folks or corporate policies. It's not gonna
Speaker 13: work in the old days. And here's another giant part
Speaker 13: of the puzzle. It's us okay, breaking poise, tyt et cetera.
Speaker 13: Because mainstream media is on the precipice of capsizing. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 13: because their costs are now higher than.
Speaker 9: Their revenue for a lot of television.
Speaker 13: Okay, So when they capsize there and they're already bleeding viewers,
Speaker 13: and their viewers are on average about seventy years old. Right,
Speaker 13: So now, guy, I've underestimated that before. I underestimated in
Speaker 13: twenty twenty and I'm honest about that. It turns out
Speaker 13: those older voters were still ascendant and were and controlled
Speaker 13: the Democratic primaries, and they're brainwashed by Joe Scarborough and
Speaker 13: mainstream media. And so that was a very powerful force
Speaker 13: and has been for a long time in this country.
Speaker 13: You can't underestimate it. But by twenty twenty eight it
Speaker 13: is a completely different ballgame, both in media.
Speaker 9: Which is everything, and in the age demographic, but all throughout.
Speaker 13: The one other giant difference when corporate democrats go, Okay,
Speaker 13: you have to vote for us because you're a black
Speaker 13: or brown, but then they don't deliver it. But progressives say, no,
Speaker 13: we are going to deliver for you. We're going to
Speaker 13: deliver on paid family, higher minimum wage, relieving student debt,
Speaker 13: public option, medicare for all, you name it, we actually
Speaker 13: mean it. So who's our standard bearer has been for
Speaker 13: a long time is Bernie Sanders. And everybody knows whether
Speaker 13: you like him or not, whether you agree with him
Speaker 13: or not, he's probably the most honest man in American politics,
Speaker 13: in our lifetime.
Speaker 9: I think even the right wing knows that.
Speaker 13: And definitely independence though in that I'm not saying Bernie's
Speaker 13: gonna run again, but our standard bearer is honest and
Speaker 13: the other guys have Trump and corporatists, so they're not
Speaker 13: going to win the young doing that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's get into that. And that's why it's interesting.
Speaker 2: You've been talking a little bit about Joe Biden. Let's
Speaker 2: put this tweet up there on the screen now. For example,
Speaker 2: you say Biden is losing by ten points in this poll.
Speaker 2: Even if it's half wrong, it's still an epic disaster.
Speaker 2: The Democrat has to win the popular vote by five
Speaker 2: to win the electoral college. Right now, Biden is fifteen
Speaker 2: points behind where he needs to be.
Speaker 3: Wake up.
Speaker 2: You mentioned Bernie Sanders. I believe Bernie is what is
Speaker 2: he eighty two eighty three? Probably in my opinion, he
Speaker 2: shouldn't run at that point. So you talked about standard bearers,
Speaker 2: but there doesn't From an outsider's perspective, I don't see
Speaker 2: a standard bearer in the progressive move I've seen a
Speaker 2: lot of fracturing. There's a lot of fighting going on,
Speaker 2: there's some like there's a lot of different theories of.
Speaker 3: Change and all that.
Speaker 2: So how if you want to mount a challenge to Biden,
Speaker 2: what does it look like? Give us some actual names
Speaker 2: of what that would be and then the fights that
Speaker 2: would ensue within that.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 13: So, first of all, I agree with you. Bernie's got
Speaker 13: age issues, as Biden and Trump does. And not only that,
Speaker 13: I love Bernie, but he just doesn't like to fight.
Speaker 13: He doesn't like to fight other Democrats Keller. Yeah, And
Speaker 13: you can't win if you don't find right. You've got
Speaker 13: to make your own case. That's the same problem Biden has.
Speaker 13: He just never makes his own case. So look, guys,
Speaker 13: what's going to happen is there's one strong, populous progressive
Speaker 13: is going to rise and they're going to capture the.
Speaker 9: Country with lightning speed. Interesting, so right now do we
Speaker 9: have that?
Speaker 11: Not?
Speaker 9: Not really?
Speaker 13: And so why do I say that? Well, look, you know,
Speaker 13: if you want to be the strong leader, you got
Speaker 13: to step up. That's what strong leaders do. They don't
Speaker 13: go Well, Biden didn't give me permission. If you're worried
Speaker 13: about Biden giving your permission, you ain't it. Yes, Okay,
Speaker 13: I'm sorry now having said that, for twenty twenty four,
Speaker 13: the progressive boat is almost gone, right, so there's only
Speaker 13: one like.
Speaker 9: It's so bad. I seriously considered running because nobody will
Speaker 9: do it. For God's sake, it's a golden opportunity.
Speaker 13: The guys in this is in the in the thirties,
Speaker 13: in the polling that we're whistling past the graveyard.
Speaker 9: He's gonna lose. He's he had.
Speaker 13: He was at fifty two when he won in twenty twenty,
Speaker 13: and he won by a razor thin march of forty
Speaker 13: four thousand votes in the electoral college. Now fifteen points lower.
Speaker 13: We're just kidding ourselves. The handwriting is on the wall.
Speaker 9: He's gonna lose.
Speaker 13: So at this point, soccer, give me anybody, give me anybody,
Speaker 13: give me Andy Msher in Kentucky, give me Governor Shapiro
Speaker 13: in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 9: I'll even take Whitmer. Okay, Okay, I don't care.
Speaker 13: We just anybody but Biden, because it's not personal. I
Speaker 13: don't mind Biden. I would prefer someone more progressive, et cetera.
Speaker 13: But at this point, it's not about that. We've got
Speaker 13: to win. Is democracy on the line or isn't it?
Speaker 13: Because I think Democrats are full of crap.
Speaker 9: They say stuff like.
Speaker 13: That, Oh, that guy's a fascists, he's gonna kill democracy.
Speaker 13: So we're running a guy who's a wounded antelope, who
Speaker 13: seventy two percent of Americans think is not even going
Speaker 13: to make it through a second term. There's no one
Speaker 13: on planet Earth that could look at those pulling numbers
Speaker 13: and say, yeah, he's gonna win. If they do say that,
Speaker 13: they're definitely lying.
Speaker 1: So it's hard to disagree with much of that. However,
Speaker 1: I will say that I do have some nervousness in
Speaker 1: my ideal scenario, you know, Biden would withdraw, wou'd have
Speaker 1: a real democratic process. I'm not of this view that
Speaker 1: like democracy is bad for electoral chances, et cetera. I
Speaker 1: actually think it's really good. It allows people to make
Speaker 1: the case. It allows democratic voters to choose the cannon
Speaker 1: that they would be think would be best suited, et cetera,
Speaker 1: et cetera. But I do worry that there are some
Speaker 1: cannons that I feel like would be worse than Biden,
Speaker 1: not only electorally, Like I think Kamala Harris would be
Speaker 1: worse electorally. I think Pete Boodagic would you know, potentially
Speaker 1: be worse electorally. But I also think that they would
Speaker 1: be a lot worse on policy, because even though I
Speaker 1: have a million criticisms of Biden that we talk about
Speaker 1: here all the time on labor issues with regards to
Speaker 1: the National Labor Relations Board, on the fact that he
Speaker 1: went to the freaking pigy line first president in history,
Speaker 1: he is better than the Obama Democrats in some key ways.
Speaker 1: I mean, they've tried to do industrial policy, that's been
Speaker 1: a significant step forward. They haven't done enough on the
Speaker 1: consumer side, they haven't done enough on the workers side,
Speaker 1: et cetera. You know, they let all the Social Safety
Speaker 1: Net stuff from COVID expire, and that's why so many
Speaker 1: Americans are feeling really stressed and struggling financially. But I
Speaker 1: can see a lot other options that would actually be worse,
Speaker 1: both on policy and on like being able to win
Speaker 1: and defeat Trump. You agree with that, No? Should you
Speaker 1: think commlal win'll be better?
Speaker 11: No?
Speaker 1: Be clear?
Speaker 13: Okay, So Number one, this is not about Biden's record.
Speaker 13: If we were started this primary a year ago, when
Speaker 13: the Republicans started, or six months ago, it would be
Speaker 13: about Biden's record.
Speaker 9: And Biden's record is mixed.
Speaker 13: So normal Democrats like Barack Obama do five percent of
Speaker 13: the things that they promise, and then the media declares
Speaker 13: them champions of the world. Right, Biden has done about
Speaker 13: twenty percent of his agenda, which for politicians is a
Speaker 13: bit stunning. It still sucks, but it's like way better
Speaker 13: than some other politicians. You write, his record on labor
Speaker 13: is pretty good, a bunch of spotty areas, but overall
Speaker 13: pretty good. Now, but I'm not arguing that, guys, it
Speaker 13: doesn't matter how great we think Biden is if he loses.
Speaker 13: So look and incumbent under fifty points the old rule.
Speaker 13: Everybody in Washington knows this cannot win or does that win,
Speaker 13: and incumbent under forty points, it's unprecedented, Jack Carter, I've
Speaker 13: never seen it in my lifetime.
Speaker 9: It's not going to happen.
Speaker 13: On the day that he won with odly forty four
Speaker 13: thousand votes in the electoral college in three swing states,
Speaker 13: he had a four and a half point lead, not
Speaker 13: in a poll, in the actual vote, the popular vote.
Speaker 13: So the Democrat needs a five point lead for us
Speaker 13: to feel a tiny bit comfortable about saving democracy, and
Speaker 13: Biden is currently losing to Trump, So I'm not having
Speaker 13: a conversation about substance. At this point, I wish I
Speaker 13: was I'm having a conversation about who can win. Now
Speaker 13: this crazy thought that people in Washington have. They have
Speaker 13: all this mythology, and in the book I break down
Speaker 13: all the mythology. In this case, though, the line is, well,
Speaker 13: if it's all Biden, and we go to the line
Speaker 13: of succession, and Kamala Harrison says.
Speaker 9: What the hell did we become a monarchy? There's no
Speaker 9: line of succession. That's not a thing. It's a thing.
Speaker 13: If some of God forbids something were to happen to
Speaker 13: President Biden, then you have a lot of succession when
Speaker 13: they're in office, but not in a primary. We're not
Speaker 13: the British royalty. Kamala Harris isn't anointed, neither is Biden,
Speaker 13: or shouldn't be. And now people in media are freaking
Speaker 13: out a little bit. They're beginning to see I'm right.
Speaker 13: James Carville's freaking out. David Ignatius at Washington Post is
Speaker 13: freaking out. But they're frozen in amber because they're like, well,
Speaker 13: we have to bow down to Biden. I mean, what
Speaker 13: would the king say other And we're Democrats, we obey authority.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 9: No, we're Democrats. We don't obey authority.
Speaker 11: Right.
Speaker 9: And then they say, well we get rid of Biden,
Speaker 9: Well we have to go to the crown princess.
Speaker 4: But what plan is?
Speaker 1: Unfortunately a lot of Democrats do a bit authority. I
Speaker 1: mean that's what we saw in twenty twenty, right, I
Speaker 1: mean that was the killer. Once the media was like,
Speaker 1: it's Biden, and if you want to beat Trump, you
Speaker 1: got to get behind Biden. We saw how quickly the
Speaker 1: dominoes fell. So you know, I am worried about a
Speaker 1: scenario where if for whatever reason, Biden is not in
Speaker 1: the picture anymore and you have a wide open primary
Speaker 1: and there's this media coalescing around. We have to back
Speaker 1: up Kamala Harris. She's the first black woman vice in line.
Speaker 9: No one, No one wants Kamala Harris.
Speaker 2: Every person I talk, you'll get racially blackmailed into I don't,
Speaker 2: no way, nobody's got time for that.
Speaker 13: Okay, that's like when you're old, that time for it.
Speaker 13: I don't care what the else in Washington thing.
Speaker 2: You may not.
Speaker 3: We agree, Yeah, we.
Speaker 1: Saw the way Democratic primary voters fell in line.
Speaker 13: No, So look, I hear you mainstream media is still powerful.
Speaker 13: Like I said, we're definitely gonna win in twenty eight
Speaker 13: and in twenty four. We're probably right on the edge, right,
Speaker 13: But we're not asking for a progressive to be Kamlin Harris,
Speaker 13: because if it was a progressive, yes, like for example,
Speaker 13: let's say Iran or Nina turneran or.
Speaker 1: Anyone like that, Marianne running or mary An.
Speaker 13: Williamson running right now, right, what does the press do.
Speaker 13: Our number one problem is in Biden. You put me
Speaker 13: one on one against Biden, you give me a fair
Speaker 13: head hearing, I would destroy him. It wouldn't even be close.
Speaker 13: It'd be a landslide, right, But you don't get a
Speaker 13: fair hearing. The press, which is totally corporate media, shreds
Speaker 13: every progressive. So Chris, at this point, I'm not wishing
Speaker 13: upon a star, Hey, Press, you love corporatis. Andy Bishier,
Speaker 13: governor of Kentucky. It's a red state. He won in Kentucky.
Speaker 1: He's the most popular governor in America.
Speaker 13: Most popular governor in America. Josh Shapiro won in Pennsylvania,
Speaker 13: crushing victory against a Trump acolyte.
Speaker 9: So you guys are comfortable with Shapiro and Bashir, You
Speaker 9: won't rip them, gotcha.
Speaker 1: Let me push a little bit on the election point.
Speaker 1: What do you make of all of the special elections
Speaker 1: we've had recently that have had Democrats outperforming on an
Speaker 1: average of eleven points. So we've gotten used to these
Speaker 1: polls that underestimate the Republican support. It seems like, you know,
Speaker 1: in recent years that may have flipped post jobs. So
Speaker 1: that's what the Biden people would point to, is like, listen,
Speaker 1: the polls can say whatever they say. The polls are
Speaker 1: wrong all the time, but when voters are actually showing
Speaker 1: up to the polls, they are we are outperforming polls.
Speaker 1: We are outperforming the marchin by double digits. What do
Speaker 1: you make of that?
Speaker 9: Okay, so first of all, did it happen? Yes? But
Speaker 9: was Trump on the ballot? No, he was not on
Speaker 9: the ballot. Trump drives out crazy Republican votes and you
Speaker 9: know that. We all know that. Yeah.
Speaker 13: Second of all, saying, well, hopefully the polls are wrong,
Speaker 13: but hey it turns out, if it turns out science is.
Speaker 9: True, we're going to lose democracy. Cross your fingers right,
Speaker 9: and hey we might get an eleven point search.
Speaker 13: No, we're not going to get an eleven point search
Speaker 13: in a presidential race, but hoping for that.
Speaker 9: Okay, I got a great idea.
Speaker 13: Why don't put in Andy Basheer and he'll have a
Speaker 13: five or six or eight point lead, and then we'll
Speaker 13: get then eleven point search and we'll guarantee democracy. And
Speaker 13: then we could fight Andy Basher in the twenty twenty
Speaker 13: eight primary. Somebody could run a year early. We can
Speaker 13: have fun within the Democratic Party, but this is the
Speaker 13: time for look about everything in everybody in Washington has
Speaker 13: to decide, and especially in the Democratic Party. Do you
Speaker 13: actually think democracy is on the line, because I do.
Speaker 13: I mean Trump is talking about killing US generals. The
Speaker 13: guy's a monster, a total maniac. He's talking about imprisoning
Speaker 13: his political opponents. He tried to cool last time.
Speaker 9: Fake electors everything. This guy's definitely a dictator.
Speaker 13: Want to be Apparently I'm the only person who thinks that,
Speaker 13: because other Democrats are like.
Speaker 9: Well, that's true.
Speaker 13: But on the other hand, we don't want to be
Speaker 13: impolite to Joe Biden. Joe Biden has a legacy to protect.
Speaker 13: He needs to be a two term president to fluff
Speaker 13: his ego. Let's note for the record that Joe Biden
Speaker 13: is incredibly selfish. If I was in the thirty and
Speaker 13: I thought democracy was on the line, I would definitely
Speaker 13: step aside.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the actions don't match up with the rudder.
Speaker 2: My last question for you, your governor, Governor Newsom, he
Speaker 2: was all over Fox News last night. The man is
Speaker 2: making a play. What do you think of him as
Speaker 2: a candidate, because clearly he wants it. He wants it
Speaker 2: right now. He's the only one you're talking about stepping up.
Speaker 2: He's probably gone the most as anyone. What do you
Speaker 2: think do you think you should run against Biden? What
Speaker 2: do you think you should do?
Speaker 9: Well, he's not going to because he's a corporate demeral. Yea,
Speaker 9: So if he ran against Biden.
Speaker 13: I'm not a fan of Gavin Newsom, but I would,
Speaker 13: but I would hold my nose. And at least he's young,
Speaker 13: he's dynamic, he's out there fighting the fight. I'm trying
Speaker 13: to win here, guys, we got to win. So now,
Speaker 13: having said that, Gavin is not going to run against
Speaker 13: him because he's a corporatist. So the corporate Democrats obey authority.
Speaker 13: So when Biden says my he goes more important than democracy.
Speaker 13: Gavin Newsom says yes.
Speaker 9: Sir, of course, sir, Absolutely, sir. I don't do whatever
Speaker 9: you want, sir, just as.
Speaker 13: Long as I'm not in polite Sir Washington, please don't
Speaker 13: yell let me, Please don't yell at me. Make me
Speaker 13: president in twenty twenty eight, I mean, if we have elections,
Speaker 13: but who cares about democracy?
Speaker 9: Democrats? Stop being so selfish and ridiculous. Do you think
Speaker 9: we have to win?
Speaker 13: Or don't you if you think we have to win?
Speaker 13: Biden is not going to get a five point lead.
Speaker 13: He doesn't even campaign.
Speaker 11: Where the hell is he?
Speaker 9: Where's Joe Biden? I'm asking where the hell is he?
Speaker 3: He's right here, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Nodding off taking and he did make appearance on the
Speaker 1: picket line, which I very much appreciate. My last question
Speaker 1: for you, Jank is like, how hopeful are you that
Speaker 1: we could end up with someone other than Joe Biden
Speaker 1: as nominee? Like do you think because she say yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean because you say, listen, Gavin Newsom's not going
Speaker 1: to run against him. That goes for every one of
Speaker 1: the corporate Democrats. I mean, Gavin Newsom is the one
Speaker 1: making the most like doing the most right now, and
Speaker 1: it's very clear he's not going to jump in this
Speaker 1: race against Joe. So do you think there's a chance, Chrystal.
Speaker 13: We are definitely in an unsolvable riddle because the corporate
Speaker 13: Democrats say, I will not disobey, I will always bow
Speaker 13: my head right, and the progressives say, well, I can't run.
Speaker 13: The mainstream media will destroy me. They will destroy my life,
Speaker 13: they'll destroy my career, et cetera. Right, So how do
Speaker 13: we get past that? That's why I'm desperate enough to
Speaker 13: think maybe I should do it. And I'll tell you why.
Speaker 13: Because let's say that somebody like me gets in the race.
Speaker 13: The Democratic voters are dying for an alternative. They keep
Speaker 13: saying every poll, for God's sake, give us someone else,
Speaker 13: give us someone else. If someone like me were to
Speaker 13: get to twenty points, do you have any idea how
Speaker 13: quick Newsom and Whitmer would enter the race.
Speaker 1: So are you seriously you're seriously considering it?
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, I'm considering it, And I'll tell you what's happened.
Speaker 2: RFK Junior is at twenty percent, you know, Marianne's at
Speaker 2: like ten percent something like.
Speaker 13: But RFK Junior, first of all, he's not a twenty anymore.
Speaker 13: He peaked at twenty for a brief moment until democrats
Speaker 13: found out he's.
Speaker 9: Not a Democrat.
Speaker 13: Okay, then he went, Then he dove down, and Marianne
Speaker 13: got butchered by mainstream media.
Speaker 9: They made up things about crystals, et cetera. So I
Speaker 9: love Marianne.
Speaker 13: I I you know, if if she could somehow bring
Speaker 13: through media, great, wonderful, et cetera. But it's taken a
Speaker 13: while and she hasn't broken through yet. So we need
Speaker 13: someone to be super aggressive. And if they'll let me
Speaker 13: ask you this way, if you get again, someone anyone,
Speaker 13: it doesn't have to be progressive, gets to twenty or
Speaker 13: twenty five, an outsider, right, this whole town panics and
Speaker 13: Newsome and Whitmer go in and media.
Speaker 1: I do think that's that, right.
Speaker 2: I don't know, because it already happened with RFK and
Speaker 2: they just ignored him and they went after him.
Speaker 13: Yeah, that was that was No, that was before when
Speaker 13: they were convinced that Biden was going to win, and
Speaker 13: RFK everybody knew it was a flash in the pan
Speaker 13: because he's not really a Democrat.
Speaker 1: Maybe, but so Jake, tell me more about your thinking. Yeah, timeline,
Speaker 1: when do you Wang, how serious are you give us
Speaker 1: a detail?
Speaker 13: So I already thought about it before, and I rejected
Speaker 13: it because I know what they're gonna do.
Speaker 9: You know, you're an outsider radical.
Speaker 13: They're gonna dredge up things from nineteen eighty seven and
Speaker 13: when you were a junior in junior high school.
Speaker 1: They need that to you.
Speaker 9: They did that.
Speaker 13: Yeah, yeah, of course. And look, if we're being honest,
Speaker 13: the number one problem is mainstream media. Mainstream media is
Speaker 13: the shock troops of corporate politicians, both corporate Democrats and
Speaker 13: corporate Republicans. Their job is to eviscerate any outsider. So
Speaker 13: that's why do you think Progresses aren't running. I've talked
Speaker 13: to at least half a dozen progressives and try to convince.
Speaker 9: Them to go in the race, and they're like, I
Speaker 9: don't want my life ruined. Who's going to ruin their life?
Speaker 9: Joe Biden's in a bunker somewhere.
Speaker 13: No, it's gonna be ABC and NBC and CBS and
Speaker 13: CNA and MSNBC, New York Times, Washington Post.
Speaker 9: They're going to go to any outsider and shred into pieces.
Speaker 13: And I'm now so desperate for making sure that we
Speaker 13: win that I think I'm already destroyed, right, Like they've
Speaker 13: already attacked me ten thousand times, right, so come at me,
Speaker 13: bro So, Crystal, it's crazy for me to consider it, right,
Speaker 13: but that's the times we're in. If like, literally, no
Speaker 13: one else will do it, it's insane. So we're I
Speaker 13: don't want to go quietly into that good night, and
Speaker 13: right now we are one hundred percent on a track
Speaker 13: to go quietly into that goodness.
Speaker 3: So what's the timeline?
Speaker 9: As Crystal s, no, I.
Speaker 13: Look, if I'm gonna do it, if anybody's gonna do it,
Speaker 13: they gotta go.
Speaker 11: Now, well, have you thought.
Speaker 1: About staff, have you thought about a plan? Have you
Speaker 1: reached it? I mean we know, you know, donor networks,
Speaker 1: all those sorts of things that we started taking real steps.
Speaker 13: So if you're going to run a campaign this late,
Speaker 13: you can't go traditional, right. You can't be like, oh,
Speaker 13: I'm going to collect endorsements from politicians. Oh, and I'm
Speaker 13: going to build up my base tiny bit. No, you
Speaker 13: got to go and hope for grassroots tsunami. The good
Speaker 13: news is when I ran for Congress, I mean it
Speaker 13: was a tiny little race. We raised like one point
Speaker 13: three million in three months. I mean, if anybody can
Speaker 13: raise money, it's meat from the grassroots, right, And I'm
Speaker 13: a successful businessman, if I might say so myself, I
Speaker 13: have some credibility in running things, managing things, et cetera.
Speaker 9: So have I reached out to staff?
Speaker 6: I have?
Speaker 9: Okay, Now the problem is everybody thinks, well, how the
Speaker 9: hell are we going to beat these guys?
Speaker 13: Right, So if I go in, it's going to be
Speaker 13: threadbare staff, threadbare website, and we're gonna see is there momentum?
Speaker 13: Because if there is a momentum and people go no, no, no, no, no, Biden, Biden,
Speaker 13: even if he's in the twenties, I don't care. I
Speaker 13: don't want I don't mind losing. I don't mind losing.
Speaker 13: You're being impolite, which is totally possible.
Speaker 3: Right, So if that's yeah, I think there's a decent
Speaker 3: contingent though.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I think that yeah.
Speaker 13: And if that's the case, then at least I left
Speaker 13: it all on the battlefield, or whoever does it, for
Speaker 13: God's sake, don't make me.
Speaker 9: Do it like I have someone else run.
Speaker 13: Right, But I can't get anyone to do it, And
Speaker 13: so I want to leave it all on the battlefield
Speaker 13: and I don't want to say, well, like everyone else,
Speaker 13: I wanted to be polite. So we lost democracy because
Speaker 13: we thought it would hurt Mussolini's opponent's' feelings.
Speaker 9: Right, does anybody remember Mussolini's opponent?
Speaker 3: I don't actually, of course no one does.
Speaker 13: No one, okay, because Mussolini ran him over and he
Speaker 13: probably sat on a couch, just like Joe Biden is.
Speaker 13: Right now, you guys, we're on it. And I know
Speaker 13: how mad Democrats get it. I know how mad media
Speaker 13: gets when you point out an iceberg. But we did
Speaker 13: it before. We pointed out the Hillary Clinton iceberg, and
Speaker 13: then they said you made the Iceberg appere No, your
Speaker 13: knuckle heads.
Speaker 9: It's right there the country.
Speaker 13: The voters despise the establishment, and they're like, so let's
Speaker 13: pick the most establishment can ex weekend, Hillary Clinton and
Speaker 13: Joe Biden.
Speaker 9: Guys, he barely won last time. There's no way he's
Speaker 9: gonna win. Now.
Speaker 13: Let alone of Cornell West is in the race, and
Speaker 13: Larry Hogan's in the race, and these guys are in
Speaker 13: the race, then there's no chance at all.
Speaker 9: So no, I'm not going quietly into that good night.
Speaker 9: So somebody better announced before I do.
Speaker 1: All right, well, well all right, well I never thought
Speaker 1: to ask you and your appearance if you were considering
Speaker 1: running for president. Yeah, I appreciate yeah, absolutely, And guys,
Speaker 1: definitely check out the book. I think you will not
Speaker 1: be disappointed. It's very interesting, very thought provoking. As are
Speaker 1: you always, Jenkins. Great to see you and I said
Speaker 1: this to you privately, but I want to say it
Speaker 1: to the audience too. You were there from the beginning
Speaker 1: helping us build at Rising and we are always grateful
Speaker 1: to you for you know, helping to build up your
Speaker 1: true believer in terms of independent media, and that really shows.
Speaker 1: So thank you forgotten.
Speaker 3: So thank thank you, guys.
Speaker 9: I really appreciate you saying that.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's our pleasure. We'll see you guys later