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Speaker 1: Today's episode of No Dunks is presented by the Salvation Army.

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Speaker 1: Your donations can help those affected by COVID nineteen find

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Speaker 1: help and hope to give. Ask your smart speaker to

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Speaker 1: make a donation to the Salvation Army or make your

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Speaker 1: gift at Salvation ARMYUSA dot org.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to another classic episode of No Dunks.

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Speaker 2: I'm Trey Carban on today's one on one episode. We

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Speaker 2: got Skeets on the line, We've got Lee on the line,

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Speaker 2: and JD is making the magic happen. No task today,

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Speaker 2: but we've got a very special guest. He's our colleague

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Speaker 2: here at the Athletic. He wrote the world's most read

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Speaker 2: English language NBA article of twenty sixteen. Lindsay Hunter once

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Speaker 2: wanted to fight him. Most importantly today, he's the author

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Speaker 2: of the excellent new book The Victory Machine, The Making

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Speaker 2: and Unmaking of the Warriors Dynasty.

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Speaker 3: We got a hater in the house, Ethan sward Strauss.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us.

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Speaker 4: So many references already, and sad to say, I think

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Speaker 4: it would have lost that fight. That guy played some

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Speaker 4: tenacious Steve that's back in the day.

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Speaker 3: He really did, no doubt Lindsay Hunter gets after it.

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Speaker 2: Maybe we'll talk a little Lindsay Hunter later, but most importantly,

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Speaker 2: I know you're at home with your family. Everybody staying safe,

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Speaker 2: stay insane out.

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Speaker 4: There, everybody's staying staying safe at least sanity. We'll we'll,

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Speaker 4: we'll see about it. I mean, it's weird, how it's weird,

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Speaker 4: how quickly weird becomes normal, and yeah, it's uh, I

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Speaker 4: can't complain. I mean I could complain, but you're not

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Speaker 4: supposed to. That's that's how I feel about it.

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Speaker 3: I think you're probably right on that one.

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Speaker 2: But I mean I'm not complaining because if you're gonna

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Speaker 2: have a quarantine, it's nice to have an incredible book

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Speaker 2: to read. So I mean, thank you to that, and

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Speaker 2: thank you for the timing. They basically carried a week

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Speaker 2: for me. What has the response to the book been, Like,

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Speaker 2: you wrote a book that basically deals with the impact

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Speaker 2: of social media, and now you've got all the time

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Speaker 2: in the world to look at social media.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I try to filter through it a little bit.

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Speaker 4: The book got more of a reaction than I thought

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Speaker 4: it would, where suddenly I'm seeing that it's being argued

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Speaker 4: about on first take and shows like that, and I

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Speaker 4: try to filter it out a bit. When I had

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Speaker 4: some friends say, oh, Jay Williams was talking smack or

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Speaker 4: some of that nature. Sometimes I'll ask for a summary,

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Speaker 4: but I tend not to chase it down, just because

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Speaker 4: I'm trying to heed some of the warnings from my

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Speaker 4: own book and that if I really get into it,

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Speaker 4: then I am being foolish. I'm going against my very

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Speaker 4: own advice. So I'm trying to be zen about it.

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Speaker 4: I'm happy though mostly I think, you know, pretty positive.

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Speaker 4: Some controversy I think mostly based on the excerpts, and

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Speaker 4: we'll see from here. I'm happy.

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Speaker 2: I've also noticed that you did an audiobook version of this.

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Speaker 2: I've only read the book, but I'm curious what it's like.

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Speaker 2: What's it like to do an audiobook? Are you trying

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Speaker 2: to come up with voices for other people? Are you

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Speaker 2: trying to throw on a Kevin Durant voice?

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Speaker 4: Well, first, I was trying to do a British septagenarian voice.

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Speaker 4: It's just because that seems to be the thing that

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Speaker 4: you do, or maybe even kick it up a level

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Speaker 4: for the age and do a David Attenborough. But no,

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Speaker 4: they didn't. They didn't let me do that in a way,

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Speaker 4: just because I had seen the example of Ronan Farrow

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Speaker 4: and how he was going all out with his audio

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Speaker 4: book doing Hungarian imitations. I think I kind of do

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Speaker 4: a half imitation for some people. I just do how

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Speaker 4: they sound in my head, and not necessarily a perfect imitation.

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Speaker 4: You know, Kevin Durant's got kind of a low sort

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Speaker 4: of like you know, it's not it's not some impeccable

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Speaker 4: Kevin Durant, but that's how Kevin Durant sounds in my head.

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Speaker 4: And a little similar for some of the other characters.

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Speaker 4: There's a Boget imitation I have. It's not an Australian accent,

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Speaker 4: but it's just what Boget sounds like in my head.

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Speaker 5: If he's not Australia.

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Speaker 6: And had is Andrew Buckets.

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Speaker 4: Well, in a weird way, your your voice sounds really

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Speaker 4: a classic Australian accent. But then Andrew then Andrew's voice,

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Speaker 4: and I don't know how to explain what that is,

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Speaker 4: but it's almost like he spent so much time in

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Speaker 4: the States in a form the formative time of his life,

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Speaker 4: that a bit of an edge was taken off of it.

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Speaker 4: Run and so yeah, so I did. There's a bit

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Speaker 4: of a there's a bit of a Boget. Goober is

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Speaker 4: from Boston, thick Boston accent, the Warriors co owner. So

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Speaker 4: none of these are fully committed to, but they're almost

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Speaker 4: half committed to. And I have no idea that's the

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Speaker 4: right way to do things, but that's when ended up happening.

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Speaker 2: I think that's the perfect way to do it. Always

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Speaker 2: half asset. That's my oh yeah, go to strategy in life.

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Speaker 2: But we'll get into the book a little bit. The

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Speaker 2: first few chapters, you're really setting the scene. You're showing

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Speaker 2: us how the dynasty was truly made. And to me,

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Speaker 2: there are three big moves that happened to have nothing

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Speaker 2: to do with basketball on the court.

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Speaker 6: Really.

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Speaker 2: Joe lacub takes over, Bob Myers takes over, and Steve

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Speaker 2: Kerr takes over. You're basically refreshing a complete front office.

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Speaker 3: Complete power structure.

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Speaker 2: What move there is the biggest impact for the Warriors,

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Speaker 2: because I mean, obviously they're all working together and they're

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Speaker 2: all forming the identity together, but I mean each guy

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Speaker 2: really brings their own thing, their own vision to the table,

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Speaker 2: and as we know, they got to work together in

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Speaker 2: perfect in perfect concert, and that's not always the case.

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Speaker 2: So what to you is the reason that the Warriors

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Speaker 2: were even able to get this thing started heading down

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Speaker 2: the right path.

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Speaker 4: I think that Joe lacub team sales the most important one,

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Speaker 4: and it's funny. I am curious how he might receive

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Speaker 4: this book, because, on the one hand, I think it

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Speaker 4: gives him far more credit than anybody else has given him,

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Speaker 4: and I state that really, I mean, the ownership change

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Speaker 4: was massive and competent ownership, that pressure from the top.

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Speaker 4: It is the most important thing for a franchise. But

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Speaker 4: I also portray him as a total asshole. So I'm

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Speaker 4: not sure. I'm not sure. I mean, maybe maybe he's

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Speaker 4: a that I have no idea. In the past he

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Speaker 4: has enjoyed a certain Daniel Plainview depiction of himself. But yeah,

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Speaker 4: I see that as the most important of those others.

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Speaker 4: It's all of it coalescing, and obviously it merges with

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Speaker 4: the players. But in many ways, I wasn't just trying

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Speaker 4: to write this from more of a front office perspective

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Speaker 4: because I was trying to woo all the Jerry Krause

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Speaker 4: fans out there in the world. It's also just because

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Speaker 4: we have written so much about the Warriors, about the players,

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Speaker 4: and it seemed like it was territory that had been

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Speaker 4: less explored, so it made sense to go in that direction.

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Speaker 1: Has anyone from the Warriors organization, be it anyone you

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Speaker 1: know in the front office, any sort of coaches, any players,

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Speaker 1: has anyone reached out to you about the book, And yet,

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Speaker 1: you know, either positively or negatively.

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Speaker 4: Positively and negatively, people in the front office don't like

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Speaker 4: the suggestion that Steph was shopped around, And that might

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Speaker 4: be a bit of a semantic difference where yeah, he

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Speaker 4: was brought up in Trey calls, but we wouldn't say

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Speaker 4: he's shopped around, you know, like their version of shopped

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Speaker 4: around is more definitive. It's maybe more of a come

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Speaker 4: and get him everybody, you know, Steph Curry, come and

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Speaker 4: get him. But other gms, multiple gms, have said he

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Speaker 4: was shopped around. He was shopped around. He was shopped around.

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Speaker 4: So that was one point of contention, and you know,

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Speaker 4: a couple of players have reached out about it, but

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Speaker 4: it's mostly based off the excerpts. You know, people people

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Speaker 4: read the excerpts and they get an opinion based on

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Speaker 4: the excerpts and they start that discussion. I haven't. I

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Speaker 4: haven't had a discussion with anybody about a close read

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Speaker 4: of the entire thing yet.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I think the stuff thing is interesting too, because

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Speaker 2: talking with the trades and stuff. One of the questions

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Speaker 2: you're asking very early on in the book is was

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Speaker 2: the Warriors.

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Speaker 3: Dynasty top down planning or was it luck?

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Speaker 2: And it's really hard to separate the two of them,

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Speaker 2: because I mean, if Curry, like you say in the book,

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Speaker 2: he's almost shipped to the Bucks, they look at his

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Speaker 2: medical issues and say, hey, he's got to have surgery,

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Speaker 2: he has surgery, and things are basically fine for Steph

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Speaker 2: Curry after then, and the Warriors become the Warriors. That

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Speaker 2: being said, they had to have the ideas and the

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Speaker 2: plans in place to be able to lure Kevin Durant.

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Speaker 2: Where do you ultimately fall on the planning versus luck spectrum?

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Speaker 4: I will say a little okay, I think majority skill

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Speaker 4: or competence with a heavy dose of luck. But there's

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Speaker 4: that cliche that you make your own luck, and suddenly,

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Speaker 4: when you have a vision, you have competent people in place,

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Speaker 4: you open yourself up to opportunities and you start realizing

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Speaker 4: potential that you didn't even know was there. So I

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Speaker 4: think that's more of the story. But it's a story

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Speaker 4: that requires a lot of luck, and I think that

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Speaker 4: the Joe Laka perspective, though, is that even if these

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Speaker 4: moves had gone a different way, even if the road

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Speaker 4: had forked in a different direction, his attitude is we're

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Speaker 4: so organizationally awesome that we would have been great anyway,

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Speaker 4: which that's his view. I don't totally agree with that,

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Speaker 4: but that that would probably be the Lake Kobean view

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Speaker 4: of things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's certainly harder to imagine a dynasty built around

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Speaker 2: the back court of Monte Ellis and Klay Thompson than

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Speaker 2: Steph Curry and Klay Thompson.

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Speaker 3: Might have been a little bit more fun, though I

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Speaker 3: don't know.

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Speaker 4: I will good book it would have been, I don't.

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Speaker 4: I don't think Monte, though, would have been long for

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Speaker 4: the Warriors, regardless of what they did with Steph, just

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Speaker 4: because man, they really really did not like him, and

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Speaker 4: they did not like him the new ownership group. Whatever

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Speaker 4: Monte did, he did not endear himself to them interpersonally,

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Speaker 4: So I think that was only a matter of time.

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Speaker 4: Regardless of what happened with Steph.

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Speaker 2: With Steph even if he is in trade packages, even

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Speaker 2: if it's not the Warriors calling and saying, hey, we're

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Speaker 2: shopping Steph Curry here, if they're accepting calls, he's in

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Speaker 2: the rumor mill, and that can I mean, that can

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Speaker 2: jeopardize a player's relationship with the team instantly. That didn't

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Speaker 2: happen with Steph cre You think that's part of the

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Speaker 2: reason we're seeing a little bit of a pushback now,

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Speaker 2: just to keep that relationship strong. Or is this the

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Speaker 2: kind of thing that just wouldn't face Steph because there

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Speaker 2: seemed to be so many times throughout this book, throughout

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Speaker 2: this run the Warriors had where he is one of

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Speaker 2: the few guys who's able to be a superstar and

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Speaker 2: put his needs far behind the needs of the team.

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Speaker 4: I mean, honestly, it shouldn't phase Steph. I mean, we

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Speaker 4: have to remember, this isn't This isn't like other MVPs

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Speaker 4: where they were on this obvious trajectory from the moment

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Speaker 4: they entered the league. His ankle injury was pretty severe.

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Speaker 4: Nobody knew how that surgery would work out. He was

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Speaker 4: a great shooter, but there were questions about everything else,

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Speaker 4: and the team wasn't doing very well. The Warriors would

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Speaker 4: have been very odd to have not been exploring these

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Speaker 4: options back in twenty eleven, twenty twelve. It's just that

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Speaker 4: now it seems like that's so insane, but back then

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Speaker 4: it just seemed like a very logical thing to do.

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Speaker 5: It seems crazy. One of those tried deals was apparently,

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Speaker 5: according to books Steph and Clay for Chris Paul, and

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Speaker 5: Chris Paul basically told the Warriors, if you trade for me,

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Speaker 5: I'm not sticking around. I mean, i'd heard, and I

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Speaker 5: think it had been out there that the Bucks the

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Speaker 5: Bucks deal was an option and that, and you know,

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Speaker 5: they ultimately settled on Monte Ellis, Milwaukee. But I hadn't

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Speaker 5: heard that one before about Chris Paul and you know,

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Speaker 5: coming to the Warriors. Where where did that come from?

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Speaker 5: For you? Where did that information come about?

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Speaker 4: Well I can't reveal that part exactly, but what I

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Speaker 4: can say is that it's the type of thing where

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Speaker 4: I'm sure if somebody run that by me at the time,

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Speaker 4: I would have said, yeah, do it, Chris Paul. You know,

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Speaker 4: like Clay who was Klay Thompson, he was he was

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Speaker 4: an elite lottery pick out of a school in the Northwest. Steph,

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Speaker 4: you had the aforementioned issues, and Chris Paul is the

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Speaker 4: best point guard in the NBA. I mean, the Warriors

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Speaker 4: hadn't had a player of that caliber. God, I don't

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Speaker 4: even know run tmc if we're going back to maybe

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Speaker 4: Chris molland you know, Chris Mollen was First team All NBA.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, maybe I'm skipping over or missing somebody.

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Speaker 5: Well, Baron Davis was good, but not not yea.

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Speaker 4: Baron Davis was yeah, selectively great where you know, he

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Speaker 4: just burst on to the playoff scene again after you know,

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Speaker 4: having some great moments of the Hornets. But yeah, They're

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Speaker 4: run in two thousand and seven. Was fantastic, But it

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Speaker 4: wasn't He wasn't Chris Paul, right, Yeah, And so yeah,

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Speaker 4: that's that's the type of thing where that sounds crazy,

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Speaker 4: like they would have demolished everything if it had gone

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Speaker 4: that route and they had gotten it done with Dell

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Speaker 4: Demps and whatnot. But yeah, back then, that's that would

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Speaker 4: have seemed like a no brainer. H.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there are so many sliding door moments like that

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Speaker 2: that you mentioned throughout the book. Like I had forgotten

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Speaker 2: that the Warriors were very gung hon trying to bring

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Speaker 2: DeAndre Jordan in and like that completely changes the way

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Speaker 2: that they build the team.

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Speaker 3: Or if stand A Gummy.

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Speaker 2: Actually gets hired by the Warriors, that completely changes the team.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, none of that. That's that's who they wanted,

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Speaker 4: by the way. I mean, they went hard trying to

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Speaker 4: get Stam van Gundy. That was their first choice over

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Speaker 4: Steve Kerr, and I don't think that would have been

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Speaker 4: the right choice. As much as I love stan Van Gundy,

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Speaker 4: I think it would have been too much of a

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Speaker 4: whiplash effect from players coach Mark Jackson to hard ass

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Speaker 4: SVG and Kerr. It was just the right It was

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Speaker 4: the right middle ground between those two options. And so

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Speaker 4: that was another one where maybe they lucked into what

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Speaker 4: they needed.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because and basically no time at all, the Warriors

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Speaker 2: win a championship. They've got seventy three wins during the

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Speaker 2: regular season, they've got Steph Curry an MVP and a

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Speaker 2: reigning unanimous MVP, and they're back in the finals. And

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Speaker 2: then under Armour has basically their worst month ever as

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Speaker 2: a company. The Chef Curry two comes out, it gets

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Speaker 2: roasted the Warriors blow the three to one lead and

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Speaker 2: Kevin Durant, a Nike pitchman, comes to Golden State. How

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Speaker 2: much of an l was this in twenty sixteen for

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Speaker 2: under Armour, because I mean they were ascendant at that time.

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Speaker 2: That's when you're writing the most read English language article

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Speaker 2: in the entire world.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they they were ascendant, and this was I mean,

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Speaker 4: they completely deflated them. And I think I wondered at

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Speaker 4: various points of their decline, you know, they'll they'll turn

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Speaker 4: it around, or they'll find somebody else. I always wondered,

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Speaker 4: when are they going to get the next basketball player

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Speaker 4: to build around, because Nike had it stable of signature athletes,

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Speaker 4: but it never really happened. They were just rising like

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Speaker 4: a rocket ship, legitimately threatening Nike, and that's completely fallen apart.

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Speaker 4: I mean, Kevin Plank, the CEO, has stepped down. And

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Speaker 4: it's crazy to think about just how the sneaker industry

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Speaker 4: operates and how a lot of what happens billions and

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Speaker 4: billions of dollars is determined by just dudes in their

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Speaker 4: twenties on a basketball court and how they perform. I mean,

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Speaker 4: it's absolutely insane that Michael Jordan was just essential to

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Speaker 4: making that one of the biggest corporations on Earth. And

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Speaker 4: if he had gotten hurt, you know, I I think

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Speaker 4: I said in the Book of Bill Embard Hip checked

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Speaker 4: him and he tears his knee, then that never happens.

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Speaker 4: And Nike is just I don't know, maybe it's just

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Speaker 4: one of the one of the sneaker companies. It's insane

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Speaker 4: that billions are on the line. And I do believe

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Speaker 4: that by effectively being a good teammate and accepting Kevin

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Speaker 4: Durant onto the Warriors and being part of the recruitment

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Speaker 4: that knocked Steph out of the MVP races, and I

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Speaker 4: think that probably lost billions of dollars for under armour.

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Speaker 4: I really do believe that.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I think that's absolutely true.

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Speaker 2: And I think that that's such a unique thing to

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Speaker 2: Steph that he doesn't care at all about apparently shoe sales,

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Speaker 2: apparently angering his endorsing like the partners at his at

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Speaker 2: his endorsements, or.

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Speaker 3: Even being in the MVP race.

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Speaker 2: That you know, we see so much throughout this book

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Speaker 2: of Kevin Durant being seeming insecure or jealous towards Steph Curry,

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Speaker 2: but rarely feels the same way going back. How did

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Speaker 2: Steph feel about all this kind of stuff, because I

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Speaker 2: mean he's given up major you know, major klout by saying, yeah,

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Speaker 2: sure we'll let Nike come in here and get a guy.

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Speaker 3: We'll let another MVP come in here.

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Speaker 6: Get a guy.

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Speaker 2: But to his credit, he's just happy to happy to

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Speaker 2: do what's best for actually getting rings.

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Speaker 4: Well. I think we all anchor our identity around something,

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Speaker 4: and I think part of Steph's identity is anchored around

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Speaker 4: being the good soldier. And so I don't think it

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Speaker 4: was easy necessarily to make those sacrifices, but there is

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Speaker 4: a sense of this is what I have to do.

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Speaker 4: It's for the greater good. And I remember talking I

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Speaker 4: mean this isn't in the book, but I remember talking

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Speaker 4: to his family after the last championship they won about

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Speaker 4: if he cared about finals MVP, and they're just really

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Speaker 4: insistent that it's just his philosophy is stacked as many

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Speaker 4: rings as possible, that's the philosophy. Whatever it takes to

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Speaker 4: get there, that's the right to say. I don't think

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Speaker 4: it's easy. I mean, it's one thing to do the

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Speaker 4: sacrifice hypothetically, and it's another thing to actually do the sacrifice.

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Speaker 4: But that's what it's about. I think for Kevin Durant

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Speaker 4: it's a little bit different. The goal is to be

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Speaker 4: the greatest basketball player on earth and to be recognized

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Speaker 4: as that, and apparently that's not one to one with

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Speaker 4: stacking rings, at least not anymore under these modern circumstances.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's interesting too because Curry is in the

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Speaker 2: Dwayne Wade situation, right, He's already got one title that

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Speaker 2: he won before Lebron or Kevin Durant shown up. Steph

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Speaker 2: already obviously has the couple MVPs, whereas Kadi is coming in,

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Speaker 2: he's got an MVP, but he doesn't have the rings,

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Speaker 2: just like Lebron was coming to Dwayne Wade. It's certainly

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Speaker 2: easier to take a back seat if you've already got

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Speaker 2: a championship and some MVPs in your back pocket. Nonetheless,

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Speaker 2: Durant finally shows up in Golden State. You say, as

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Speaker 2: you say, Steph Curry is no longer the story, So

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Speaker 2: Nike has to be thrilled. Did they have a huge

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Speaker 2: influence on Katie's decision here or is there still some

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Speaker 2: factoring into it? Because I remember when he went he was,

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Speaker 2: you know, fascinated by the team first aspect of the Warriors,

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Speaker 2: and as you say, he liked the idea that Steve

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Speaker 2: Kerr puts out there that success can actually be enjoyed. So,

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Speaker 2: I mean, it definitely feels a little bit, you know,

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Speaker 2: Nike over under armour to me, and it definitely feels

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Speaker 2: a little bit. This is a perfect basketball situation, but

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Speaker 2: there seems to be a lot of things pulling at

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Speaker 2: Durant there.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think he can be definitively proved that

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Speaker 4: Nike pushed Kevin Durant in any direction. I just know

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Speaker 4: that they really loved the decision he made very excited

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Speaker 4: about it. They were in the front row of his

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Speaker 4: press conference in Oakland, his introductory press conference. That you

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Speaker 4: could see Lynn Merritt around Kevin Durant a lot in

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Speaker 4: the playoffs. Lynn Merritt Nike executive, and that Nike officials

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Speaker 4: knew well ahead of time before it public that Kevin

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00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:04,360
Speaker 4: Durant had chosen the Warriors. I know that much. That's

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Speaker 4: where I first was hearing that it was done when

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Speaker 4: it happened. So, you know, I don't know if any

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Speaker 4: of this is completely formalized, like I don't think Lynn

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Speaker 4: Merritt is sending an email to Kevin Durant that says, Gee,

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Speaker 4: you should really join the Warriors. That would be great

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Speaker 4: and it would really help your brand urgent join the Warriors.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, maybe the very charismatic Lynn Merritt, you know,

376
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Speaker 4: wraps his arm around Kevin Durant's shoulder and says, look,

377
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Speaker 4: you know this could all be yours. You know this

378
00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,439
Speaker 4: could you felt second place for a while. Maybe this

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00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:41,719
Speaker 4: is the thing that really vaults you up there, because

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Speaker 4: when it comes to the Nike, the difference between being

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Speaker 4: in the number one spot and the number two spot

382
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:50,760
Speaker 4: is a vast chasm, fast chasm. They typically are marketing

383
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,360
Speaker 4: one guy, one guy for each sport, and you are

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Speaker 4: incredibly famous. If you're that guy, you're transcendent. And that's

385
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,040
Speaker 4: I think he always felt that he was just he was,

386
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:08,320
Speaker 4: that status was just eluding him, and it would have

387
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,680
Speaker 4: made sense that making this bold move to the Warriors

388
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:12,320
Speaker 4: might have gotten it for him. But it didn't. It

389
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:13,080
Speaker 4: didn't work that way.

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00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,200
Speaker 3: That's exactly right, Durant is inte.

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Speaker 2: It brings us to the biggest, the best chapter in

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Speaker 2: the book, Kad and Me, which starts with an absolutely

393
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,239
Speaker 2: classic exchange. You text Katie asking for his input on

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Speaker 2: the book and he just responds, fuck you, fuck your

395
00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,680
Speaker 2: sources and your book. How much money you paying me

396
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Speaker 2: for my chapter? You say, how much do you think

397
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,800
Speaker 2: it's worth? Katie says not enough?

398
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Speaker 3: Classic?

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00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:42,080
Speaker 4: There's more classic aspects. I didn't include it exactly because

400
00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,560
Speaker 4: it didn't totally fit, but the exchange actually started out

401
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:50,320
Speaker 4: with eata dick ethan, I don't I don't hate you.

402
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:54,760
Speaker 2: Though, respect okay, And that's something that I was wondering

403
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,159
Speaker 2: throughout this. There are so many times when it feels

404
00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,840
Speaker 2: like Katie could easily blow you off, give you the

405
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,439
Speaker 2: old shoulder, but he always wants to talk, So like,

406
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:03,879
Speaker 2: do you think he liked you? Like?

407
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:05,760
Speaker 3: Do you think he liked having the back and forth

408
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,080
Speaker 3: with you? Or what really drew him to get keep

409
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:09,359
Speaker 3: confronting you about stuff?

410
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,480
Speaker 4: I don't think. I don't think he liked me, but

411
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 4: he does like to talk. And so if you're just

412
00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,879
Speaker 4: standing in front of him and maybe he doesn't like you,

413
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,359
Speaker 4: you're still somebody who could absorb whatever he's saying, And

414
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,440
Speaker 4: so I think that's what it. I think this is

415
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,240
Speaker 4: what it was. But then when it comes to liking

416
00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:29,959
Speaker 4: or not liking, to be clear about it. I mean,

417
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:31,480
Speaker 4: I'm sure there are a lot of people out there

418
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 4: who might dislike me on my own merits. But what

419
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:38,240
Speaker 4: we're really talking about is not liking what I'm saying

420
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 4: about him, right, It's not It's not really about he

421
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,359
Speaker 4: doesn't he doesn't really know. He doesn't really know me.

422
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,119
Speaker 4: He doesn't really know the inter the intricacies of my life.

423
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 4: And maybe he thin sliced it. To quote Malcolm glam Well,

424
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,840
Speaker 4: he saw enough to know I'm rash. I don't. I

425
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,280
Speaker 4: don't know, but like, let's face it, I would have

426
00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 4: a far I'd have a far easier dynamic with him,

427
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 4: or I would have if it was just endless praise

428
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,679
Speaker 4: all the time versus some of the stuff that I did.

429
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Speaker 6: Right, So why do you say that? Have you seen?

430
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Speaker 1: I know I name names by any means, but are

431
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,080
Speaker 1: there other reporters that sort of approach Katie like that,

432
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:15,880
Speaker 1: you know, sort of with the oven mits and hey,

433
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,360
Speaker 1: you're great, you're the best, You're you're the goat, and

434
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:19,720
Speaker 1: he's sort of more receptive to that.

435
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 4: Well, I think, hmm, it's a good question. I mean,

436
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 4: there are a variety of different ways to approach him.

437
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 4: There are a variety of different ways to get stories.

438
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 4: I don't want to insinuate that people writing more positive

439
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,120
Speaker 4: stories aren't doing their jobs. I think that they're often

440
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 4: just doing a different kind of job and they're using

441
00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,479
Speaker 4: a different kind of access. It's just it just so

442
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:47,480
Speaker 4: happens that my job is often one where sometimes I'm

443
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 4: the bad guy and I have to say that this

444
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,640
Speaker 4: is what's going on. I mean, the article that really

445
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 4: angered him was the one where I said, when I

446
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,439
Speaker 4: talked to everybody with the Warriors, everybody is saying they

447
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,720
Speaker 4: think he's gone on, or at the very best, they

448
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 4: don't know. That's just an article that fell on me

449
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,320
Speaker 4: to write. We talked about it at the athletic. You know,

450
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 4: who's going to write this, who's going to say this?

451
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 4: And you know, I was like, Okay, I'll put my

452
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:17,600
Speaker 4: head in the buzz saw, I'll do it. So it's

453
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:19,959
Speaker 4: just I feel like it's just a matter of fitting

454
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 4: into whatever your role is, and that's that's my particular

455
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 4: that's my particular role. But you know, to be clear

456
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 4: with Katie, there have been writers who have criticized him,

457
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 4: and he's had a back and forth and reconciled and whatnot,

458
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 4: and such things do happen in the NBA. I've certainly

459
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,280
Speaker 4: had that with players where I pissed them off and

460
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 4: then things got better later on.

461
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,399
Speaker 5: I'm just thinking with the audio version, you could have

462
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 5: text him back and asked him to like leave a voicema.

463
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 6: Can you record this on?

464
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:52,600
Speaker 5: I mean, you said, you said, he said he doesn't

465
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,960
Speaker 5: hate you. It's like, Kevin, would you mind just verbally

466
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 5: abusing me down the phone.

467
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 4: I just I just need the favor, just one favor,

468
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 4: old buddy for you all.

469
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, were you ever afraid Ethan like after that incident,

470
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:08,720
Speaker 1: like where you know, he's calling you out in the

471
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 1: press conference and it's I'm sure a little awkward, no doubt,

472
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:13,959
Speaker 1: but like, were you ever I don't know, maybe it's

473
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 1: a weird question, but were you ever like, oh, maybe

474
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 1: I don't want to be in there around.

475
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 4: It, like like I'm gonna catch a haymaker you made? No,

476
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,959
Speaker 4: you know, Honestly, the thing that's more terrified is just

477
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 4: being in what I call the take zone and just

478
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 4: having just a bunch of text messages and people on

479
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,439
Speaker 4: TV arguing about whether you're bad at your job and

480
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 4: I mean that that sort of stuff is far scarier.

481
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 4: I mean, there's To me, it's it's just more of

482
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 4: the social awkwardness, like when you when you know you're

483
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 4: the guy in the locker room and people are looking

484
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 4: at you and seeing what's gonna happen. I mean that

485
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 4: that's more what it is. It never occurred to me

486
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 4: that anything physical might happen. I mean, I've had situations

487
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 4: where maybe there was a little bit more of that

488
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 4: in the past, but I just don't. I still think

489
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 4: that's the way Kevin handles things. Maybe I'm naive, but

490
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 4: it just never occurred to me.

491
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 2: Well, this all comes obviously near the end of Katie's

492
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 2: time with the Warriors, but I'm a little curious what

493
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 2: it was like when he first showed up in Golden State,

494
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 2: because coming from Okase, they were very tight lipped, very

495
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 2: controlled with the media, whereas the Warriors were media savvy,

496
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 2: so you could, you know, and they were just very

497
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 2: open at all times to kind of you know, giving

498
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,120
Speaker 2: interviews and doing little pieces here and there. You could

499
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 2: see that there may eventually be some sort of longerheads

500
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 2: between a guy who was brought up staying away from

501
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 2: the media versus a team that became famous while they

502
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 2: were doing very well with media. Was there was there

503
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 2: any sort of awkwardness there when Katie first came into

504
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 2: a more open place.

505
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 4: I don't think it was awkwardness. I think there was

506
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 4: a there was a honeymoon period, and I mean he

507
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 4: came in with a little bit of a sense that

508
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 4: the media was on him, and there was some weariness

509
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 4: about it, but not not so much the local media,

510
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 4: and I think he was really enjoying being able to

511
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 4: spread his wings and relax. And they would just pound

512
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:11,320
Speaker 4: corps lights after every after every game, and Katie would

513
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 4: just chug a corps light and then let out a

514
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,360
Speaker 4: huge burb and then he would start the scrum interview

515
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 4: on the road, and that was the type of thing

516
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 4: that you just didn't do in Oklahoma City. But the

517
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 4: Warriors had a little bit of the beer culture going

518
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 4: and as part of the let's how everybody have fun,

519
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 4: and the coaches all had just tons of medellos in

520
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 4: the in the in the water cooler that they would

521
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 4: drag around on the road. And I mean, I have

522
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 4: to admit that myself and Anthony Slater sometimes on the

523
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 4: road after after a game after everybody would leave, I

524
00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,120
Speaker 4: would do I would do Slater's podcast in the road

525
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 4: locker room and we would just you know, drink the

526
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 4: leftover Medellos will do in the podcast the warm scraps

527
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 4: of the of the of the Warriors party bus. But yeah,

528
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 4: it was just a totally different environment from Okac and

529
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 4: I think at least at the beginning that was refreshing

530
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 4: to him, and not just because uh, it's the coldest

531
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 4: bear around.

532
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 3: The mountains are so lude.

533
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,879
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Speaker 1: wear for the moment. Did I say that like a question?

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572
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573
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Speaker 2: One of the big moments that everybody remembers from last

574
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 2: season is Katie and Draymond fighting on the sidelines during

575
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 2: the Clippers game. You call this a point of demarcation

576
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 2: in the book. Now, just this week, Draymond Green has

577
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:24,479
Speaker 2: been talking on Uninterrupted saying that if Durant had come

578
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 2: out and told the team right away that he was leaving,

579
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 2: or I suppose told the team that he was going

580
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 2: to be back for the next season, it would have

581
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 2: been okay things with there would have been so little

582
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 2: tension amongst the Warriors. Do you really buy that? Or

583
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 2: was even if we knew Durant was leaving, Even if

584
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 2: Draymond Green knew Durant was leaving, how's that still not

585
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 2: going to play a factor at some point?

586
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 4: Yeah? I keep thinking about it ever since he said it,

587
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 4: because he was saying it and other guys were saying

588
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 4: it at the time back then, and I've been wondering

589
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 4: about it because it's strange, because why would that have

590
00:29:55,560 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 4: actually improved things. Necessarily, it would have gotten out, he

591
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 4: would have been asked about it, people would say, God,

592
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 4: that's kind of weird that you're leaving. Why are you leaving?

593
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 4: He doesn't seem to have the personality to really carry

594
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 4: that through for the rest of the season. But what

595
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 4: I think it's about, if I'm to just theorize, I

596
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 4: think they just wanted a sense that they mattered more

597
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,959
Speaker 4: than everybody else as teammates. And if you take your

598
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 4: teammates aside and you tell them something that you haven't

599
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 4: told the world yet, then there is a sense of

600
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 4: there's respect there. And I feel I don't feel. I

601
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 4: know that there was a sense that he had really

602
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 4: drifted and just become his own thing outside of the

603
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 4: team in that last season, And so maybe what Draymond

604
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 4: wanted was just that, And maybe he just wanted clarity

605
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 4: because it was the sense of he's leaving, but he's

606
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 4: not saying it and he's not spelling it out, and

607
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 4: that's putting this whole situation in limbo and just not

608
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 4: knowing what he was going to bring every night or

609
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 4: throughout the playoff run because of that. So I also

610
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 4: think as much as Raymond says that it's you know

611
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 4: about not declaring his intentions. I mean, if he was

612
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 4: just happy, go lucky every day, I think that would

613
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 4: it would have been fine. If he was leaving it

614
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 4: up in the air, I think that would have been fine.

615
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: But you're saying that Draymond, in his defense, was saying

616
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: this stuff throughout the season with Katie. And he's not

617
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: just saying this because the last dances on and it's

618
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: like a res.

619
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 4: No, no, no no. He was saying all of that.

620
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 4: I mean, I think that had a lot to do

621
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 4: with why the blow up happened. And he wasn't the

622
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 4: only one saying it. There are other players who felt

623
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 4: that way at that time.

624
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: There's something you slipped in there that you just made

625
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: me think of. I mean, is all of this avoided

626
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: if if Katie's just a cool hang because it just

627
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:47,479
Speaker 1: sounds like he's not.

628
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean that's that's really I think that's

629
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 4: a huge part. Just and hey, he feels however he feels.

630
00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 4: But it was the constant misery. It was the constant

631
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 4: misery combined with.

632
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 6: Like a little cloud following him around or something like that.

633
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, but just but being so incredible at basketball that

634
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 4: you just have to deal with it, and he could

635
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 4: just turn it on and he could go I mean

636
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 4: that Clippers series is ridiculous, where he goes from not

637
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 4: trying really, let's face it, not not actually to coming

638
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 4: up with these weird, just genius sounding reasons for why

639
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 4: he wasn't shooting and seeing it was top locking and

640
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 4: you know, wooing us with jargon to actually screw all

641
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 4: this top locking and I'm gonna score fifty more because

642
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 4: it turns out these guys are way shorter than me.

643
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 4: But yeah, you just had to deal with it because

644
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 4: he's a basketball genius.

645
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 2: I think some of the the the changing Katie really

646
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 2: plays out in his relationship with Steve Kerr throughout the book, because,

647
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,479
Speaker 2: like you're saying, part of the reason Durant was lured

648
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 2: to Golden State was seeing Kerr and the assistant coach

649
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 2: is drinking beer after an All Star game. He loved

650
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 2: the joyful ways, he loved the team basketball, and by

651
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 2: the time he's ready to leave, all of those things

652
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 2: are the things he's basically undermining in the press.

653
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 3: How did this go south so quickly with Kerr?

654
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 2: Because Kerr seems like the kind of guy who has

655
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 2: done a really good job throughout his career keeping people

656
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 2: on the same page.

657
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know if it went quickly. It was

658
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 4: starting to go in that direction in the season before

659
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 4: the last one, because he wasn't fulfilled by winning that

660
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 4: first championship, and if you remember, Steve Kerr had a

661
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 4: dinner with him to try to get him back and

662
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 4: bring him back into the fold. So you're starting to

663
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 4: see it. It was starting to happen. And I don't

664
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 4: know if whatever happened had more to do with Kerr

665
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 4: or just more to do with how Durant at a

666
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 4: certain point felt like he was getting less from the

667
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 4: Warriors than the Warriors were getting from him. And if

668
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 4: we were to be completely reductive about what happened, I

669
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 4: think that is the simplest explanation. Why did he leave.

670
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 4: He wasn't getting it as much from the Warriors' situation

671
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,919
Speaker 4: as the Warriors were getting from him. I think that's it.

672
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can definitely see that being the case, and

673
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 2: it really shines a light on the playoffs, because, like

674
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 2: you're saying in that Rocket series, you know, he went

675
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 2: from not giving the full effort in the early games

676
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 2: too By the time he got hurt against the Rockets,

677
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,320
Speaker 2: I think he was probably going to be establishing himself

678
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 2: as probably the best player in the game.

679
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 3: Like his stats throughout the playoffs are incredible thirty.

680
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 2: Two five five a steal, a block, fifty forty ninety

681
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 2: Lebron James is not in the playoffs for the first time.

682
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 3: In forever if he doesn't get hurt.

683
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 2: Is it out of the realm of possibility that the

684
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,879
Speaker 2: Warriors win a third straight championship? He gets a third

685
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 2: straight finals MVP. He is considered the best player in

686
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 2: the game and we're talking about him as still a Warrior, now,

687
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 2: is that possible?

688
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 4: I mean it it seemed pretty set in stone that

689
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 4: he was gone, But I mean I could see us

690
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 4: talking about him as the best player in the game

691
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 4: and if he had come back and been kind of

692
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 4: a superstar Willis Reid. I just remember it was so

693
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 4: cinematic when he returned and then the Warriors just boom boom, boom,

694
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 4: three after three after three in that in that game,

695
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 4: in that game five.

696
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 6: And we were there, we were in the air Canada Center.

697
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 4: Did you okay, did you did you sense how palpably,

698
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 4: completely fatalistically defeatistly nervous the Canadian, the Canadian crowd was

699
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 4: because that was something that was just amazing to be

700
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 4: I just remember.

701
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 1: The Canadian crowd, I know, I know, I was freaking out.

702
00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, Like he's back, he's

703
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: a killer. They're the Warriors once again, and like.

704
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 6: Well that was fun. Yeah.

705
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 4: They they dangled it, you know, in front of you,

706
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 4: only to snatch it away. I remember I think I went,

707
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 4: god was it in the There was some break in

708
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 4: the action where I use the restroom and the other

709
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,399
Speaker 4: Raptors fans are there and they're talking and it's like, well,

710
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,320
Speaker 4: we're gonna lose again. Boys. There's a reason that Toronto

711
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 4: hasn't won a championship in over forty years. It just

712
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,920
Speaker 4: it was like it was just amazing to see, uh,

713
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 4: to see yep, yep, this is this is how it's

714
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 4: gonna go. The Warriors are back. We're not winning another

715
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 4: game of the series. But then, of course, the gruesome

716
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 4: injury happened and things turned, and then Clay. I don't

717
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 4: want to take I don't want to take anything away

718
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 4: from the Raptors. Though they were incredible in that series.

719
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 4: They kept coming just so much veteran, savvy shot making

720
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:39,520
Speaker 4: the whole deal. So they deserve they deserve that championship.

721
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 4: I do want to say.

722
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 2: That, did Durant coming back? Do you think that was

723
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 2: influenced a lot by the narrative, like you're saying the

724
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,919
Speaker 2: Willis Reid moment to come back and try and save

725
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 2: the series, try and save a championship.

726
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 4: It's a good question because we never knew exactly what

727
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 4: he was risking medically, and I don't think we ever

728
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 4: really went But it was a tantalizing trap we had

729
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 4: all set for him collectively. I can say that much

730
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 4: that we had made so much of the conversation about

731
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,959
Speaker 4: Kevin Durant about as Bob Meyer said that night, about

732
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 4: the people who take hits at him and criticize him,

733
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 4: rip him. But I was thinking to myself, and I

734
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 4: wrote in the book, was this a trap? Was this

735
00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 4: a praise trap? We all lured for him collectively that Hey, Kevin,

736
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 4: if you come back and if you win the big one,

737
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 4: you know, injured, we're gonna you know, we're gonna love you,

738
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,600
Speaker 4: We're gonna celebrate you. You know that we had kind

739
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,240
Speaker 4: of set this trap for him, and beyond he probably

740
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 4: just wanted to also compete, and you see other people

741
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 4: playing and whatnot. But you know, it was really the

742
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:48,040
Speaker 4: stage was set for him to be the hero. We

743
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 4: had rolled the red carpet out. I think you guys

744
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 4: remember what the scene was like when he entered the arena,

745
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 4: just the hush tones and the flashbulbs. I mean, he

746
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 4: was the focus of everything that night, and that's got

747
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 4: to be in top oxicating, hard to resist and this

748
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 4: kind of thing when we're seeing this Jordan documentary when

749
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 4: he's being asked, what would you risk? You know, if

750
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 4: the headache could kill you with a ten percent chance,

751
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 4: how bad's the fucking headache? I mean that was that's

752
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 4: that was a situation like that where athletes tend to

753
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 4: be optimists in many ways, and maybe the feeling was

754
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 4: this is too good to pass up.

755
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 2: Well, that's absolutely right, especially because like you mentioned, you know,

756
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,439
Speaker 2: Durant was getting killed on Twitter to the point where

757
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 2: Steve Kerr considers bringing in random people from Twitter so

758
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 2: that Kevin Durant can actually see what these people look like.

759
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 2: Did they ever actually a contact, you know, like big

760
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 2: shot Rick forty.

761
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:45,280
Speaker 4: Seven, Joe from Bortola. I think Steve said I they

762
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 4: they didn't do it, and frankly was a mistake. I mean,

763
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 4: I think they should have tried it out. Steve should

764
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 4: have tried it out, probably when things were worst. Why not,

765
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 4: why not just right after the Dremond KD fight, bringing

766
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 4: bring in some some random Twitter people and see how

767
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 4: they'll handle it. But I think that, you know, he

768
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:06,879
Speaker 4: he means that kind of whimsically, but in a way

769
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 4: that's also very Steve Kerr. It's this idea of Okay,

770
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 4: how can we put another spin on this and make

771
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 4: this fresh and reframe how the how the players are

772
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:18,879
Speaker 4: thinking about it?

773
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: Well, just off a kur there's a you know, I

774
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 1: love the part where you you go down It sounds

775
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 1: like and are strolling around the neighborhood, you know, having

776
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: a conversation with him. Is is he your favorite person

777
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 1: in this book? A favorite you know, person with the

778
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: warriors to talk to? Is there and someone else that

779
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 1: you you enjoy? I mean, I'm sure he's on the

780
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 1: short list. He's obviously such a and he's got such

781
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:44,720
Speaker 1: an insightful personality and just that he's got an interesting

782
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 1: way he looks at life.

783
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 6: Is there? Is it him? Is it somebody else? Like,

784
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 6: who's your favorite person?

785
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 4: Interviewed with no offense to Steve, I enjoy me Sam

786
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 4: anddre I Gadala. I just I never know what's gonna happen. Steve.

787
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,839
Speaker 4: I have an idea. I have an idea of what

788
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 4: he might say, where he's going with it. Andre is

789
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 4: it's like a game. I don't and I don't even

790
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 4: know how to win. I don't even know what the

791
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 4: rules are. Yeah, it's it's very West World. By the way,

792
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 4: Andrea Gadala huge West World fan. He is a.

793
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 3: Huge Well, I'm not surprised.

794
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 2: I can see you two having the perfect relationship because,

795
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 2: like you're saying, you don't know what the Guidala. I

796
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 2: had to talk to him once on camera, and I

797
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 2: was terrified for the entire day, and then he said,

798
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 2: like the nicest thing anybody has ever said to me

799
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 2: on camera. So I was like, Okay, I guess I

800
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 2: like Andrea Guidala now. But you don't know because you

801
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 2: like the way you describe it. It's like you don't

802
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:38,879
Speaker 2: know if the joke he's making to you is even

803
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 2: a joke.

804
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, you don't, you don't. It's cryptic. And then there

805
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 4: are moments of sincerity, but you don't totally know of

806
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 4: their moments of sincerity. He came back in a Miami

807
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 4: Heat uniform this season, and I didn't even know what

808
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 4: to expect, but he was very nice. It was very

809
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 4: nice to see him again, and he'll have these moments

810
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,439
Speaker 4: of real profundity and deep and at the same time,

811
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 4: he's totally pure. In many ways. I think he's he's

812
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 4: the heart of the book because he's incredibly cynical, as

813
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 4: cynical as the NBA world is, and it's something he

814
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 4: can see, and yet he's also very pure, and he

815
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 4: wants to make the right basketball play in the moment

816
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 4: at all times, and he's chasing that high of when

817
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 4: everything's clicking and going right. So I think he's He's

818
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 4: probably my favorite guy to interview. My favorite guy to

819
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 4: write about, though, is Joe Lacub. Joe Lacub is a

820
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 4: pro wrestling character that just happens to exist in real

821
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 4: life and I enjoy the hell I just enjoy the

822
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 4: hell out of Joe Lacub, the bomb bast the Gavin

823
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 4: Belson esque manner. He's just it lends itself to writing

824
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:47,040
Speaker 4: anything with Lacub.

825
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,240
Speaker 5: You talk about Andrea Gadala. There's a passage there where

826
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 5: where it's just after that incident where Kevin Durant calls

827
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 5: you way out of the press conference and then Iggy

828
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 5: calls you to the back room, the sort of place

829
00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:59,840
Speaker 5: that no report has ever allowed to talk to you

830
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 5: about that, and he just sort of says he frames

831
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,359
Speaker 5: it uses the analogy of, like, you know, sometimes even

832
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 5: if you haven't done anything wrong, you just apologize to

833
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 5: your wife if you're having a bit of a bad

834
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 5: moment or whatever. That to me sounded almost like Igodolla

835
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 5: was saying, Kevin Durant in such a bad mood because

836
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 5: of that article. You know, he's bringing that into the

837
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 5: locker room, if you can maybe apologize, even though you

838
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 5: say throughout like I didn't do anything right, why should

839
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 5: I apologize? But it was almost like Ego Dollar was

840
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 5: saying to you, we need you to kind of get

841
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 5: him out of this bad mood, and the only way

842
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 5: he's going to do it is if you apologize. It

843
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 5: is that accurate?

844
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:38,399
Speaker 4: Again, It's very difficult to know what he's behind any

845
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 4: Andrea Gudala thing, but yeah, I think that's a plausible

846
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 4: read on it. My favorite part of that was just

847
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 4: seeing DeMarcus Cousins and Marcus Cousins go, you know, you've

848
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 4: got some apologizing how do I how do I? How

849
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 4: do I apologize if I didn't if I think that

850
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:04,200
Speaker 4: I did do anything wrong and Cousins goes, shit, that's

851
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:05,399
Speaker 4: for you to figure out.

852
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:14,840
Speaker 2: Sounds like some apologizing experts over there.

853
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 4: I think I think they conflated their job for my

854
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 4: job a little bit, because there is this sense when

855
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 4: you're a player that players just have the most status

856
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 4: in the world. And if a player is mad at

857
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:31,800
Speaker 4: the media, uh, then that media person is totally screwed.

858
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 4: And I just didn't I didn't totally see it that way.

859
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:37,399
Speaker 4: I saw it as well. You know, it'd be good

860
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 4: if Kevin was on great terms with me, but it

861
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 4: was on bad terms with me, then that's fine too.

862
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 4: It's not it's not so important. But I think the

863
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 4: player view of the world is very player centric, so

864
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 4: I think it made sense and how they see things.

865
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, was there What was your favorite chapter to write? Ethan?

866
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:57,840
Speaker 4: I kind of you know, I like Sneaker Wars. I

867
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,799
Speaker 4: I love I love the sneaker stuff. It's just such

868
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 4: a that's the chapter where I feel like I'm I mean,

869
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 4: you guys know about all this stuff, but for a

870
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 4: lot of basketball fans, I feel like I'm telling them

871
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 4: about a world that they just never conceived of. And

872
00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 4: I'm flipping the paradigm a bit. Where who are these

873
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 4: guys really working for? You know, who's the real employer?

874
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 4: Is it the sneaker company? Is it the is it

875
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 4: the team? As much as some of the stuff in

876
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 4: let's say, the Kevin Rant chapter is really interesting and

877
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 4: lens itself for excerpts, it's just uncomfortable to put that

878
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 4: all out there because I'm a character in it and

879
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 4: so kind of harder. That's almost harder to write in

880
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 4: a way, versus the the Nike under armor stuff.

881
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 6: When did you start formulating the idea of writing this book.

882
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 4: I'd been approached. God, I can't even remember when I

883
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 4: was initially approached to write a book. I've been approached

884
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,359
Speaker 4: to write books in the past about the Warriors when

885
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 4: they were on the up and up, and I just

886
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 4: wasn't so interested and doing it because when everything's great,

887
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 4: it's really just easy to appreciate on its own. Just

888
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 4: the television product is great, I mean, how much I

889
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 4: mean I can help with articles here and there, and like,

890
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 4: oh my god, Steph hits shots from so far away.

891
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 4: I can do all that, but we're drawn in the

892
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 4: literary sense. Whether it's the last dance, you know, it's

893
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:22,840
Speaker 4: the last dance, not the first dance. That we're into

894
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 4: Shaq and Kobe's breakup, and you know, the Portland Trailblazers

895
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 4: dissolution is covered, and breaks of the game. It's just

896
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 4: more literary. So when I had agreed to do something

897
00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,440
Speaker 4: with the Warriors, and I was thinking about something about

898
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:41,240
Speaker 4: the basketball underworld involving agents and sneakers and everything else.

899
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,320
Speaker 4: But then once I knew that that Kevin was leaving,

900
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 4: or at least had a very solid indication, I talked

901
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 4: to the publisher I think early that season, and we said, okay,

902
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 4: we're going to go in this direction. And that's when

903
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 4: I started. That's when I started writing the book and

904
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,800
Speaker 4: keeping tabs in that particular situation. And lo and behold,

905
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 4: Kevin Rant left.

906
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 5: What's your relationship with Draymond Green? Like these days? Because

907
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 5: I remember, I guess it was two seasons ago you

908
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 5: wrote that article that the Warriors have a Draymond Green

909
00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:13,399
Speaker 5: problem and he didn't like that, and in fact, from

910
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,439
Speaker 5: what I saw, even some within the Warriors didn't like that.

911
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 5: So when you're going about a story that involves him

912
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 5: again here, you know, does he stand offish with you?

913
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:22,839
Speaker 5: Does he give you much?

914
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 2: Or is it?

915
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 4: No? No, he's he's been really cordial. We've talked about

916
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 4: that story. I didn't love everything in that story. It

917
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 4: was God, when was it? It was it a half decade

918
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 4: ago that came out and it wasn't. Yeah. Yeah, He's like,

919
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 4: wasn't it like two months ago? Well yes, yet well yes,

920
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:46,320
Speaker 4: he had actually ran it, I think a few weeks

921
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:49,880
Speaker 4: ago because they were going through the quarantine coverage and

922
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 4: they ran that story on their front page, which was very,

923
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 4: very strange. I've ever read it that as his dream.

924
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 4: I gotta get mad to be all over again.

925
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 3: Better apologize, I got up.

926
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 4: Shit, I got some apologizing to do. No, it's it's

927
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 4: something that you know, over the years we've had We've

928
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 4: had many conversations, and I didn't like everything in that story.

929
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 4: And I think we're both just different people and now

930
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 4: are fathers, and I think with with Draymond, it's a

931
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,439
Speaker 4: it's a cordial relationship, and frankly, it's a credit to him.

932
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 4: I mean, he would have been well within his rights

933
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 4: to just tell me to fuck off and and just

934
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 4: be a total asshole to me, that would have made

935
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 4: complete sense, But that that isn't really how he handled it.

936
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 4: And I think that, you know, it's a hey, I'm

937
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 4: not complaining, it's uh, this is it was. It was nice.

938
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 4: It was a kindness, I would say, considering.

939
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 2: It, definitely feels like he knows he has to play

940
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 2: the media game and that his his point of view

941
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:54,360
Speaker 2: is gonna get out there through other people. So I

942
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:57,360
Speaker 2: thought he's just always been I mean, sure, certainly he

943
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 2: has been confrontational at times, but he also is gonna

944
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 2: be a guy who's working in media when it's all

945
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 2: said and done, so he understands the value of it.

946
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:07,799
Speaker 2: On the flip side of Clay Thompson, there's not much

947
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:10,320
Speaker 2: Clay in this book. You did call him Keanu Reeves

948
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,800
Speaker 2: with a jump shot, which is basically the perfect description

949
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:16,280
Speaker 2: of Clay Thompson. Is just nobody worried about Clay Thompson

950
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 2: at any time. They're like, yeah, he'll be fine with whatever.

951
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I think he'll be fine with whatever.

952
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,160
Speaker 4: There's certain stories that he hasn't liked when it gets

953
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 4: out there. I remember I remember in Atlanta and there

954
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,280
Speaker 4: was some TMZ story where he was with multiple women

955
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 4: getting into a car outside a La nightclub and he

956
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:37,799
Speaker 4: was just complaining to me. He was just said, you know,

957
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 4: it's like my this is my cousin. Like he gets

958
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 4: mad about the strange things, just strange that the Clay

959
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 4: voice in my head. Yeah wow, little audiobook. Yeah yeah,

960
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 4: Clay Clay to me is Napoleon dynamite ish. You know,

961
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 4: I'm not saying that's what his voice actually sounds like,

962
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 4: but just the way he is with Michael Thompson is

963
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:04,760
Speaker 4: so uh just teenage, just teenage annoyance. You know where

964
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 4: I like, Michael Thompson will be sitting in his in

965
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 4: his chair in the locker room and the Lakers or

966
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 4: in town and Clay will dad get out of here? Gosh,

967
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 4: you know, in the way, Clay is the thing that

968
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 4: Kevin Durant doesn't know how to be. Clay doesn't think

969
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 4: at all about who loves him or who hates him

970
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 4: or any of that. He's barely aware of any of it.

971
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 4: Everything he does accidentally or intentionally, everybody loves if he

972
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 4: shows up an hour late to practice. Everybody will go like, oh,

973
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 4: that's our Clay basically, you know Clay. I hadn't thought

974
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 4: about this, but Clay is Homer Simpson and Katie is

975
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:57,800
Speaker 4: Frank Grimes.

976
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 1: Perfect was there anything I mean, maybe it is another

977
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,399
Speaker 1: Clay story or something else that you just couldn't fit

978
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 1: into the book that you know, was left on the

979
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:10,200
Speaker 1: editing room floor that you sort of wish maybe got in.

980
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:14,280
Speaker 4: Okay, so there was something that wasn't so much cut,

981
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:16,759
Speaker 4: but I wish I could could get it in there.

982
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:18,960
Speaker 4: You know, in a way, I wanted to talk a

983
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 4: little bit more about some of what these guys do

984
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:23,719
Speaker 4: get from it, because it is a book that is

985
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 4: a lot of the NBA sadness, right which is real.

986
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:29,759
Speaker 4: You know, we're we're about to watch, you know, we're

987
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:32,359
Speaker 4: watching the Last Dance right now, and Scottie Pippen doesn't

988
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:35,879
Speaker 4: seem so happy and having won five championships. In fact,

989
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 4: he seems the opposite of happy right now. So that's real.

990
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 4: But they do get something out of it. And Ron Adams,

991
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 4: I remember, was saying to Sean Livingston that look, all

992
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 4: that matters is years from now. I'm going to see

993
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 4: you and you're going to see me and we're both

994
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 4: going to smile because we had these you know, it's

995
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:57,360
Speaker 4: a very you know, maybe the maybe the whole point

996
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:58,919
Speaker 4: was the friends we made along the way, or whatever

997
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 4: the cliche is, but the one that I would love

998
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:03,959
Speaker 4: to have been able to get in. There is another

999
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:08,240
Speaker 4: Andre Gudala quote which Bomani Jones had read my book

1000
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 4: and he was talking about it with Andre, who had

1001
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:12,640
Speaker 4: had his own Warrior's Book, and said, is it true

1002
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 4: that winning doesn't actually make you happiness? It make you

1003
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 4: happier or get get happiness for you guys? And Andre said,

1004
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 4: it is true, it's true, but you miss it. And

1005
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,720
Speaker 4: I wish that I had been able to ask Andre

1006
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 4: about that before the book came out, and that you know,

1007
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 4: that idea of yeah, you're all so miserable on this

1008
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 4: particular part of the journey and want it to end.

1009
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,919
Speaker 4: But when when it ends, I mean, you look back

1010
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 4: and it's you know, you now have this perspective of

1011
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 4: you're not on the spotlight anymore and things aren't so

1012
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 4: great on the other side. So I wish I'd been

1013
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 4: able to fit that into the book.

1014
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:52,879
Speaker 2: I think you nailed it when you said that this

1015
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,400
Speaker 2: is a story of ultimate success. It's also a story

1016
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:57,760
Speaker 2: of why ultimate success cannot sustain.

1017
00:51:57,840 --> 00:51:59,000
Speaker 3: It's crazy to read this.

1018
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 2: Book and then have the Last Dance come out and

1019
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:04,720
Speaker 2: just see the way that both dynasties ended. It seems

1020
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 2: like it's impossible for a dynasty to have a drama

1021
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 2: free ending. I mean, the Bulls they won a championship

1022
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 2: in their last year and it was super drama filled.

1023
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:15,480
Speaker 4: They effectively end by suicide. I mean, that's what's crazy

1024
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:20,359
Speaker 4: about it. It's at a certain point and everybody goes,

1025
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:24,640
Speaker 4: we don't like doing this anymore. Like, look, the difference

1026
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:28,359
Speaker 4: between no championships and one championship is massive. Between four

1027
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 4: and five, I don't know.

1028
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 5: Ye, well, that's what's kind of interesting though. You know,

1029
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:35,959
Speaker 5: when you look at the San Antonio Spurs, they've been

1030
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:39,600
Speaker 5: so competitive for so long, but they've kept those three

1031
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:42,320
Speaker 5: corps together and Timmy Manu and Tony Parker and of

1032
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 5: course Popovich. But they never went really you know, they

1033
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 5: never went back to back. They sort of always spread

1034
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 5: their championships out. I mean, I wonder if that has

1035
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:51,319
Speaker 5: any impact at all. You know, the fact that the

1036
00:52:51,320 --> 00:52:55,320
Speaker 5: Warriors sort of binged on their championships so much, and

1037
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 5: they brought in Kevin Durant. I wonder if that sort

1038
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:01,320
Speaker 5: of dynamic is just what's different about, you know, someone

1039
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:01,680
Speaker 5: like the.

1040
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 4: Spurs in a different reality. If they don't bring on

1041
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:07,799
Speaker 4: Kevin Durant, I think that they could have had a

1042
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 4: less dominant but more sustainable path. And he was the

1043
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 4: guy who made the inflection point higher. But me the

1044
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 4: long term, you know, the long term idea of this

1045
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 4: just not long term. And you know, I think Bob

1046
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 4: Myers is somebody who has that Spurs want. He wants

1047
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:33,160
Speaker 4: to have a Spurs esque run, and Joel Acub wants

1048
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 4: to have a dynasty that lasts as long as the Spurs,

1049
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 4: which is completely impossible.

1050
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 5: Talking about people who are probably going to read it,

1051
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 5: do you think Steve Balma will have any issue with

1052
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 5: how you described his appearance and how he walks and

1053
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 5: how he looks.

1054
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 4: Oh talk about something that that I might have I

1055
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 4: wish I could put back in the book. I was

1056
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 4: on some podcasts we were talking about maybe the maybe

1057
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:58,080
Speaker 4: the condor in a way is supposed to be a

1058
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:01,719
Speaker 4: subliminal reminder of who owns the team.

1059
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:04,360
Speaker 1: That's exactly what I thought of when I read that

1060
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:05,799
Speaker 1: part exactly.

1061
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 4: I swear to God, I wish I could have put

1062
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:11,320
Speaker 4: it in there. I think I'm depicting. You know, Steve

1063
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 4: Balmer is pretty alpha, you know. Yeah, you never know,

1064
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 4: you never know how people might react to whatever their

1065
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 4: portrayal is.

1066
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 5: But he said, yeah, he was like a bald eagle

1067
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 5: stuffed into a.

1068
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:26,080
Speaker 4: Get it out.

1069
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 5: I actually, like, I enjoyed this book, eth and I

1070
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 5: thought it was very well written, great information, great storytelling.

1071
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 5: But that was the part where I actually like laughed

1072
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:37,560
Speaker 5: out loud because you talk about how he walked in

1073
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 5: his head bobs forward like a pigeon, you know. But

1074
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:44,280
Speaker 5: it isn't it isn't It isn't nasty at anyway.

1075
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 4: You know.

1076
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 6: It's just that is the way he is.

1077
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:48,240
Speaker 5: And he's by the side and he's cheering and screaming

1078
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:48,760
Speaker 5: and yelling.

1079
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, but he's quite Evian and you know, and but imposing,

1080
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 4: you know, and oising and impressive. He's a big dude,

1081
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 4: and so yeah, I just I wanted to capture some

1082
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:05,879
Speaker 4: of those little scenes of the playoffs, just the ridiculous

1083
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 4: spectacle of it all. And you know, around that time,

1084
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 4: I was keeping a little diary of just stuff I

1085
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 4: noticed and the bomber stuff is that stuff I wrote

1086
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:16,000
Speaker 4: down just watching him walk around, and was like, okay,

1087
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 4: I want to I want to slide this into the

1088
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 4: books just because it's amusing to me.

1089
00:55:20,160 --> 00:55:22,279
Speaker 1: Well, I only have I got one more question too,

1090
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:24,359
Speaker 1: And and like LI said, I think you can tell

1091
00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:26,239
Speaker 1: we're big fans of the book The Victory Machine.

1092
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:28,279
Speaker 6: Everybody should go get it, go read it. We love it.

1093
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 1: Were you watching Jurassic Park while you were writing this book?

1094
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 4: I just love Jurassic Park.

1095
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 6: Two Jurassic Park references were there not?

1096
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, I don't know if I was watching it.

1097
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 4: I just think the Jurassic Park is so filled with

1098
00:55:44,560 --> 00:55:50,239
Speaker 4: phrases and metaphors, and it's it's always, it's always in

1099
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:53,439
Speaker 4: the front of my mind. Drastic Park is so uh yeah,

1100
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:55,239
Speaker 4: I think I used life will find a way at

1101
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:57,239
Speaker 4: some point. I can't remember what the other one.

1102
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 5: The other one was it bad that the donna sol

1103
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:01,680
Speaker 5: it doesn't want to feed, it wants to hunt?

1104
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 4: Yes?

1105
00:56:02,200 --> 00:56:05,319
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, Because I got to the second Jurassic Park

1106
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:06,320
Speaker 1: reference and I was like, hold.

1107
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 4: On, is that the second one? Yeah? Well, you know,

1108
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 4: in this moment of nineteen nineties nostalgia, that we're now

1109
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 4: in with the last dance, it only makes sense to

1110
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:18,960
Speaker 4: look even look even harder at Jurassic Park. But for

1111
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:22,279
Speaker 4: whatever reason, even if I don't even believe some of

1112
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 4: the central premise of Jurassic Park that if we recreate dinosaurs,

1113
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:29,080
Speaker 4: something will go terribly wrong and we'll eat us all, like,

1114
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 4: I feel like if we got the science to do it,

1115
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 4: I feel like we could figure it out. I don't know,

1116
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 4: I'll just throw that out there.

1117
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:35,800
Speaker 3: I don't know they got too even.

1118
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:40,480
Speaker 6: I just want to now end this podcast with.

1119
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:46,759
Speaker 4: The Oh I love it. Oh God, that one's so great.

1120
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:49,319
Speaker 4: That John Williams soundtrack and Drastic Park, you know, the

1121
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:55,200
Speaker 4: dun d dun du so good. It's incredible.

1122
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 2: Did John Williams best work?

1123
00:56:57,040 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 4: I would say so, although Indiana Jones is up there?

1124
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:02,520
Speaker 5: Oh, now you're talking JD's language.

1125
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:04,080
Speaker 6: Superman's up there too.

1126
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:08,360
Speaker 4: Forgets about Superman. Yeah, that's a Oh, that's a pretty

1127
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:11,880
Speaker 4: good one. That's a deep cut right there. Yeah, greatest

1128
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 4: movie composer ever, John Williams. Yeah, Jurassic Park. It's great.

1129
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 4: Great metaphors for life strewn throughout that particular movie and

1130
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:25,400
Speaker 4: also strewn throughout that particular movie Samuel L. Jackson's Limps.

1131
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 3: Okay, we will call it.

1132
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 2: Go get the book. It's called The Victory Machine. It

1133
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 2: is incredible. It is on Amazon just like Jurassic Park,

1134
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 2: so you could have the delivered as a two pac

1135
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 2: without even leaving your house. You won't be disappointed. Ethan,

1136
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:44,000
Speaker 2: thank you so much for taking some time out of

1137
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 2: your day.

1138
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:46,919
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me, guys, this is great.

1139
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:50,880
Speaker 2: You guys can follow Ethan on social media at Sherwood's Strauss.

1140
00:57:50,920 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 2: You can read him and listen to his podcast House

1141
00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:55,960
Speaker 2: of Strauss on the Athletic. If you're not a subscriber yet,

1142
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:58,880
Speaker 2: get it together and enjoy a ninety day free trial

1143
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:02,520
Speaker 2: at the Athletic slash No Dunks and you can follow

1144
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 2: No Dunks everywhere on social media at No Dunks, Inc.

1145
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 3: I NC right there.

1146
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 2: We'll be back tomorrow on Thursday with a new episode

1147
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 2: of No Buffs Ethan.

1148
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 3: Are you a survivor guy?

1149
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 4: Uh? No?

1150
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 2: Well, now is a good time to get in be well, everybody.

1151
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:21,440
Speaker 6: Embrace the Victory Machine. People,