1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News alongside Kaylee Liones, I'm 2 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:11,960 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew. We come to Arabit early this evening for 3 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 1: an important conversation with Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts. 4 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: She joins US live now from Capitol Hill. Senator, it's 5 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:21,639 Speaker 1: good to see you. Welcome back to Bloomberg. You're calling 6 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: on the Senate to exercise its authority to stop President 7 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 1: Trump's tariff regime. 8 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 2: Here. 9 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: Earlier today, as I'm sure you know, the President promised 10 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: to veto the bill from Senators Campwell and Grassly that 11 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 1: would require congressional approval after sixty days. Now, John Thune 12 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: says he doesn't think that bill has a future. So, Senator, 13 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,599 Speaker 1: what should be Congress's answer to the tariffs? 14 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 2: Well, let's back up just a little bit. As you've 15 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 2: been reporting all day long, every light is flashing red 16 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 2: in terms of the economy and that we really are 17 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 2: on the precipice of sliding into a recession and maybe 18 00:00:55,240 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 2: taking it worldwide. Meanwhile, the Secretary of the Treasury is 19 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 2: going on Tucker Carlson to talk about all of the 20 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 2: workers that Trump and Doge have illegally fired and spend 21 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 2: some tale about how all those people from the Veterans 22 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:19,479 Speaker 2: Administration or the NIH or the Social Security Administration can 23 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 2: go work in these factories that will magically appear. You know, 24 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:28,040 Speaker 2: we need a Secretary of the Treasury who's in the 25 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:31,959 Speaker 2: real world, and in the real world right now. He 26 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 2: should be calling a meeting of FSOC, remember the Financial 27 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 2: Stability Oversight Council, which is what we put in place 28 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 2: after the crash in two thousand and eight. And this 29 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 2: is the way that government. When the economy is doing 30 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 2: what it's doing right now, the Secretary of the Treasury 31 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 2: is supposed to pull everyone together and actually figure out 32 00:01:55,760 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 2: a plan, call the plan, and then execute on the play. 33 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 2: But that is not what our Secretary of the Treasury 34 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 2: is doing. So that puts us in a position where 35 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 2: Congress needs to act and Congress can actually do it 36 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 2: using the authority that Donald Trump himself is using. He's 37 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 2: using something called i EBA. But the point is that 38 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 2: if Congress says no, there is no emergency here, then 39 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 2: Donald Trump loses his ability to put all of these 40 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 2: tariffs in place. So we need to act. We need 41 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 2: a Secretary of Treasury to do his job. The Democrats 42 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 2: in Congress are ready to act. But if the Secretary 43 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 2: of Treasury won't act, then we need the Republicans to 44 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 2: step up, join the Democrats and put a halt to 45 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 2: these tariffs that are truly wrecking the worldwide economy. 46 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 3: Well, Senator, the President argues, it's going to help the 47 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,399 Speaker 3: US economy, that this is actually about bringing manufacturing back 48 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 3: to the US, protecting American workers in lower trade deficits 49 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 3: with other countries. Is there something fundamentally wrong with that 50 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 3: objective or it simply the means that you take issue with. 51 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 2: The objective is exactly one that I have advanced for years. 52 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 2: Of course, tariffs should be one of our tools in 53 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: the toolbox of economic policy. And there are times, when 54 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:26,480 Speaker 2: appropriately executed, that we could use a terraff, for example, 55 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 2: to arnshore a specific supply chain or to help build 56 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 2: up manufacturing that we want to have here in the 57 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 2: United States. But you do that in a thoughtful, integrated 58 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 2: way instead of a haphazard number around tariffs applied to 59 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 2: everyone with no thought at all about whether or not 60 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 2: those tariffs will actually have a negative impact on manufacturing 61 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 2: that's currently going on, or any manufacturing that anybody might 62 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 2: try to get underway. Instead of actually supporting manufacturing and 63 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 2: good jobs. The way Donald Trump has done this has 64 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 2: been to scare off anybody from investing here in the 65 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 2: United States in any kind of facility that takes years 66 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:21,239 Speaker 2: to be able to build and expand and get it going. 67 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 2: He's forcing people to pull back. That is not good 68 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 2: for American workers. It is not good for building jobs 69 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,679 Speaker 2: here in America. It is not good for on shoring 70 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 2: our manufacturing. You need a thoughtful policy, and that is 71 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 2: the opposite of what Donald Trump has offered. 72 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: You heard from Larry Fink today, Senator Blackstone CEO. Blackrock 73 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,440 Speaker 1: CEO says he believes that a recession is already underway. 74 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: That the CEOs he talks to say the same thing. 75 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 1: Do you agree? And should the Federal Reserve announce an 76 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: emergency rate cut tonight? 77 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 2: Look, I am really worried about whether we are already 78 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 2: in a recession or just right on the edge. All 79 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 2: of the lights are flashing red. And Larry Think points 80 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 2: this out, but he is not the only one. There 81 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 2: are a lot of folks who are starting to say 82 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 2: this and a lot of evidence in that direction. Where 83 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 2: our focus should be right now is on preventing it 84 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 2: from getting any worse, and we can do that. You know, 85 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 2: this isn't some outside shock, This is not some war 86 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 2: in some distant land that's caused this problem. This is 87 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 2: not that the markets are imploding because suddenly all of 88 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 2: the bad mortgages are coming to light like in two 89 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 2: thousand and eight. One person has started the dumbest trade 90 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 2: war in the history of America. Congress has the power 91 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 2: to rain that back in, and if Donald Trump and 92 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 2: his team won't do it, then Congress should step up 93 00:05:56,480 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 2: and do it before more damage is done. 94 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 3: Well, does one person also have the power to provide 95 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,799 Speaker 3: a check on that damage? To get back to Joe's question, Senator, 96 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 3: even if the FED were to issue an emergency rate cut, 97 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 3: would that be enough to stem all of the bleeding 98 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 3: that you think could be happening in the US economy 99 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 3: as a result of these policies. 100 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 2: Look, the FED share himself on Friday just said that 101 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 2: he is concerned that this haphazard tariff announcement is going 102 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 2: to drive up inflation and drive up unemployments simultaneously. I 103 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 2: understand why the FED chair is really worried at this moment. 104 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 2: The way the one person who can stop this problem 105 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 2: is Donald Trump, and if he will roll back these tariffs, 106 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,919 Speaker 2: we can at least stop the damage from continuing to 107 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,359 Speaker 2: bleed out through our economy and around the world. And 108 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 2: if Trump won't do it, then we just need some 109 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 2: Republicans in the House and the Senate to grow a 110 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 2: backbone and do what they know is right. You know, 111 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 2: I don't know anybody in Congress who's saying, man, this 112 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 2: is a great idea, what a cool move. They are 113 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 2: really worried about what's happening. They're hearing it from their 114 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 2: own constituents at home. But they have the power to 115 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 2: fix it. So let's put the pressure on those Republicans 116 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 2: to join with the Democrats and take away the authority 117 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 2: from Donald Trump to be able to continue to roll 118 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 2: out a tariff policy that has the potential now to 119 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 2: put millions of people out of work, costs millions of 120 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 2: people their savings, their retirement, and start shutting down businesses 121 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 2: throughout this country. 122 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: Looking at a letter that you sent, in fact led Senators, 123 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: signed by all eleven Democrats on the Banking Committee. It's 124 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: to the Chairman Tim Scott, demanding a hearing on the 125 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: impact of President Trump's trade war. I mentioned this because 126 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: you're going to be involved in the hearing tomorrow Senate 127 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: Finance Committee with the US Trade Representative Jamison Greer, who 128 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: I can't imagine realize the timing of this hearing when 129 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: your invitation first went out, Is that the person you 130 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: want to talk to? Who else would you bring before 131 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: the Banking Committee if not the President himself? 132 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 2: You bet. I am ready to talk to mister Greer 133 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 2: tomorrow about what we can do right now to stop 134 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 2: the bleeding, what we can do to try to rescue 135 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 2: this economy before it is hopelessly caught in a recession. 136 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 2: I want to ask that of mister Jamison, and I'm 137 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 2: going to ask him what it's going to take him 138 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 2: to step up and tell the President to stop this 139 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 2: tariff policy that is terrible for workers all across this country. 140 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 3: Well I wonder, then, Senator, how much authority you really 141 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 3: think the US Trade Representative has or how much sway 142 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 3: in impact the President's decisions. I could ask the same 143 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 3: about the Secretary of the Treasury, of the Commerce Department 144 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 3: of others for that matter. 145 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:09,959 Speaker 2: Well, you know, I hope you're listening to your own question, 146 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 2: and that is these are the very people that Donald 147 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 2: Trump said were the best people to do policy in 148 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 2: each of their chosen areas. Donald Trump's the one who 149 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,079 Speaker 2: chose his trade rep. Donald Trump is the one who 150 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 2: chose his Secretary of the Treasury. 151 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 1: By Dolly. 152 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 2: They ought to be doing their jobs right now. Instead 153 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 2: of having the Secretary of the Treasury go on Tucker 154 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 2: Carlson and spin out fantasies, he ought to be calling 155 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 2: together the rest of the economic advisors under the powers 156 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 2: given him under Dog Frank, putting them together and putting 157 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 2: a plan in place to rescue this economy. That's what 158 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 2: the FSC, the Financial Stability Oversight Council, was deliberately built for, 159 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 2: and that is the job that was give to the 160 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 2: Secretary of Treasury. Step up and do your job. And 161 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 2: if Donald Trump has ed, Donald Trump should listen to 162 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 2: his Secretary of Treasury. If his Secretary of Treasury will 163 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,040 Speaker 2: do his job, that is the question. And if none 164 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 2: of them will do their jobs, Congress needs to do 165 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 2: its job and take away this authority from Donald Trump. 166 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 2: And I just want to be clear, We're running out 167 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 2: of time on this. Every single day that goes by, 168 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 2: every hour that people are saying, I'm not investing there 169 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 2: I'm laying off workers every single minute. It gets more 170 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:41,199 Speaker 2: and more dangerous for our economy and for the worldwide economy. 171 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 2: It is time for the Secretary of the Treasury to 172 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 2: do his job. It is time for the President to 173 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 2: do his job, and it is time for Congress to 174 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 2: do its job. 175 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 3: All right, Senator, we will leave it on that note. 176 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for joining us as the Democratic 177 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 3: Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts joining us here on balance 178 00:10:59,000 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 3: of power