WEBVTT - Unpacking the Upfronts: How TV’s Big Week Reflected Broader Industry Turmoil 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:00.960 Right. 0:00:01.280 --> 0:00:04.360 Shut it down. New York is a union down. 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:10.959 Oh, Sight, shut it down, New York. Oh shut it down. 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:15.360 New York is down. Oh it's right, shun it down, 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:17.240 New York Union. 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:28.440 Welcome to Strictly Business, Variety's weekly podcast featuring conversations with 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:32.840 industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:37.559 Cynthia Littleton, co editor in chief of Variety Today. My 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:41.839 guests are my colleagues, varieties crack team of television and 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:45.360 digital reporters and editors on the ground in New York. 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:48.720 This team is always working around the clock, but they 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:52.479 never work harder than they do during upfront Week, that is, 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:56.240 the mid May frame when the largest media conglomerates present 0:00:56.320 --> 0:01:00.240 their programming plans for the upcoming season. Even and as 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:04.039 I say that, it sounds anachronistic for the way TV 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:07.720 works now, but the upfronts are a hi, how are 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:12.720 you FaceTime tradition for the television business and the advertising industry, 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:15.000 and I think that's still going to be a hard 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:18.319 habit to quit in the coming years. The twenty twenty 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:21.520 three marked an upfront's week like no other. As you'll 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:25.040 hear in audio clips taken from various events that are 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:29.200 woven into this podcast. Writers Guild of America pickets were 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:32.840 out in force, making their voices heard as the Labored 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:36.920 dispute rages on behind the velvet rope. There were plenty 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:40.680 of other signs of the industry's difficult transition from linear 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:45.080 to streaming. So let's dive into our roundtable discussion with 0:01:45.240 --> 0:01:50.640 Varieties Jennifer Mos, Joe Otterson, Todd Spangler, and Brian Steinberg. 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:56.560 They have highlights and insights from Disney, Netflix, NBC, Universal, Fox, 0:01:56.960 --> 0:01:59.880 YouTube and more. Don't even think about touching that die. 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:08.600 We'll be right back with all of that after this break. 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:13.320 So here we are on Friday, May nineteenth, with the 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:18.160 New York brain Trust of Varieties television coverage. Thank you 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:22.120 all for the This is Variety's TV Avengers, TV and 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:25.560 Digital Avengers, and I thank you all for assembling on 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:28.080 a Friday when you probably just want to lie flat 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:32.200 and recover after a week of upfronts and all its glory. 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:38.280 So thank you, Todd, Brian, Joe, Jenny. Let's I throw 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:40.440 this out as a jump ball for anybody who wants 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:43.640 to grab it. I am very keenly watching the NBA 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:48.200 playoffs go Lakers and jump ball for anybody who wants 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:51.320 to take it. This was an upfront you're like no other. 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:55.480 What was the mood out there in Midtown around the 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:58.680 events around you know, inside and outside. 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:01.919 Well, I would say it's it's a much more that 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:05.040 the business is changing very quickly and the days of 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.040 one and roses are probably over. These used to be 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:11.200 very glitzy events where you could, you know, watch it 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:14.040 for three hours, you know, listening to every every They 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:16.720 used to fly in every celebrity from every show for 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:19.840 a personal meet and greet, and he was there to 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:23.200 serve you shrimp and lobster to your heart's contented afterwards. 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:24.680 The parts you're fading away. 0:03:24.880 --> 0:03:28.120 The glitz is fading away because the entire business is 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:32.440 being driven not by linear TV schedules but by digital 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:36.840 streaming and concerns about how to get bigger audiences. These 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:40.280 you know, the advertisers who buy TV want to get 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:42.760 big audiences so they can reach thousands of people in 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:45.560 one spoop. We not have to spend X number of 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:48.280 dollars to get one person here and one person there. 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:51.280 The big things to do that these days are sports 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:55.320 live spectacles and some streaming stuff. But The idea that 0:03:55.360 --> 0:03:57.320 a drama is in a you know, at ten of class, 0:03:57.320 --> 0:03:59.160 gonna do that for you anymore is kind of gone. 0:03:59.480 --> 0:04:01.200 And so that's kind of what the network to produce 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:02.520 for years, dramas. 0:04:02.120 --> 0:04:05.040 In comedies from eight to eleven. Now prime time is 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:06.440 anyone's prime time. 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:09.200 You know, my primetime might be one in the morning 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:11.440 when I said nothing to Dow versus my kid's prime 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:15.000 time might be fioclotin afternoon. The networks have to adjust, 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:17.720 and they are doing so by focusing more on streaming, 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:21.320 more on algorithms, more on software, and more on technology. 0:04:21.560 --> 0:04:23.960 It helps pinpoint where your commercial should go. Some of 0:04:23.960 --> 0:04:25.560 the creativities coming out of that. 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:29.120 And it's all about science and technology, and as such, 0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:30.719 it's not as exciting as it used to be. 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:31.200 Outside. 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.640 Yeah, that it was, you know, in my in my 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:41.240 own limited experience, it was definitely more subdued than in 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:45.719 years past. It definitely seemed like people were almost holding 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:48.080 their breath. I mean, just again with everything happening with 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:50.640 the writer's strike, and like you know, even though like 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:53.320 Brian said, like you know, the fall schedule isn't necessarily 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:55.000 the key component that it used to be, but I 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:56.760 think there was a lot of people kind of wondering. 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:59.520 It's like, well, what's where are we going to be 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:02.000 and in three months and six months what is this 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:03.719 going to look like? And there just wasn't a lot 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:06.560 of certainty around anything. It's like, of course there's gonna 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:09.000 be you can have certainty around sports, you can have 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:10.680 certainty around your own scripted programming. 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:11.200 But it's just. 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:13.560 That's not you know, like he said that, that's not 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:15.920 the glitzy stuff that people really like, you know, really 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:17.880 want to see. I feel like, you know, there was 0:05:17.920 --> 0:05:19.520 a lot of really good response to some of the 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:21.960 sports stars and people who came out, but it's just, 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:23.480 you know, it wasn't quite as fun as when you 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:25.680 have like actors and comedians kind of out there, like 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:27.520 working the crowd and kind of having fun with it. 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:29.960 So I think there was definitely the energy level was 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:31.359 down compared to past years. 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:34.600 I mean two of Foxy shows they showed that dramas 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:38.440 had no clips and no cast attached, just like goodttle montage, 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:39.479 just a little video montage. 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:42.200 It could should feel like this, here's a feel for but. 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:44.359 You trust us it's gonna be great. 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:48.320 That's not that's not how you get prop and Dale 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:49.520 will buy your shows. 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:53.680 But Brian, you're saying that even before the strike, you know, 0:05:53.760 --> 0:06:00.360 this season, the the glitzy shrimp cocktail festivities had been 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:01.120 on the decline. 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:03.880 Well, Paramount pulled out before the strike happens. I mean 0:06:03.920 --> 0:06:05.240 that's I think. 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:08.520 I think this art last year where I think these 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:10.960 shows are less import than the technology they need to 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:13.240 serve commercial you know, they serve ads. It's not I 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:14.880 used to tell you how, you know, adagans was all 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:18.360 about you know, crazy spokespeople and funny spokes characters and 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:21.920 jingles and you know, big stunts and they're still there. 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:24.720 But it's just it's not it's about finding the right 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:26.719 placement for your ad within with where. 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:38.080 With digital audiences and interactive technology. 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:42.440 This year, obviously with the strike it was different, but 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:45.360 it seemed like early in the week they were very 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:48.800 heavy with the picket lines. The first and biggest picket 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:51.400 line of the week was NBC Universal. 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:53.440 It was the most high profile. 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:56.719 It was out of out front of Radio City. There 0:06:56.720 --> 0:07:00.360 were about two hundred people. They had some chance that 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:04.320 were catchy and went with NBCU. And then it kind 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:07.640 of noticed that it would get smaller throughout the week. 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:10.200 As it went on, And I think one of the 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:14.080 reasons for that isn't necessarily that the passion died off 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:17.120 or like people, but what happened is the focus has 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:19.720 gone from just like trying to make a statement in 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:22.800 front of advertisers, they're shutting down a lot of productions. 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:25.040 And you can't shut down a production. 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:26.239 From outside of an upfront. 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:27.800 You can make a statement and be in front of 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:30.440 advertisers and be in front of cameras, but if a 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:33.320 lot of the focus is actually on making these companies hurt, 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:35.720 when they're just kind of trying to do their best 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:38.760 to ignore you outside the upfront, the way you're actually 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:42.040 attacking them and getting at them is shutting down these productions. 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:44.160 So I think they were doing a good job of 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:47.120 actually putting their resources towards where. 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:48.880 It was going to make the biggest difference. 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:51.040 So the strike was still there, the picket lines were 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:53.720 definitely there, but it got smaller throughout the weekend. 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:56.119 I also want to ask you in terms of the mood, 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:58.720 that truly the mood like after the event. Of course, 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:01.480 the upfronts are an enormous amount of work for people. 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:04.440 It's exhausting reading up to it and afterwards. But what 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:09.040 would you say the executives, your contacts and the people executives, producers, 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:12.280 what was the mood? I gotta believe, you know, it's 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:13.960 kind of similarly unsettled. 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:19.520 Yeah, I'd say I'd say so for the again without 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:21.360 naming any names, I mean, the few people that I 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:23.320 spoke with, I mean, they almost just kind of seemed 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:25.920 to be glad that they were done with everything. You know, 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:27.520 it's kind of like, you know, we kind of have 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:30.280 to be here for this. And again not saying specific companies, 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:33.440 this happened to specific people, but just it was. 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:36.120 Very much they were very worried. 0:08:36.240 --> 0:08:38.720 More so like it was almost like we're glad we 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:42.160 got through this without anything worse happening than like, you know, 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:45.199 like you didn't have like WGA members trying to storm 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:46.960 the stage or something. I think they were just worried 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:50.520 there's gonna be some kind of big, embarrassing public spectacle 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:53.480 with their name attached to it, which obviously, you know, 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:55.680 like the thing people fear most is a bad headline. 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:58.320 Talking to people after, they'd be like, we did it, 0:08:58.360 --> 0:09:02.480 we got through it. We finished the presentation that probably 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:04.360 did not have a lot of talent in it those 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:07.520 very sports or news focused, as Brian said, and just 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:10.640 going through it and being like we hit the beast 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:12.600 that we need to hit. It's over now and we 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:15.160 can go to the party, or we can we did, 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:17.480 we checked off the box, we did the presentation, we 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:19.360 got it done, and now that's over. 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:21.800 Thank god. That seemed to be the opinion of a 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:22.840 lot of different people. 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:25.160 Or if your fox, you can just reopen the bar, 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:27.800 because they had the bar open and the presentation and 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:31.240 they reopened the bar afterwards. That's a little mixed there. 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:36.040 They know, they know their audience. Yeah, Todd, we're talking 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:38.760 obviously mostly about this past up front week, the week 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:41.360 of May fifteenth, but I know you ventured out into 0:09:41.400 --> 0:09:43.480 the New fronts a number of times. That was due 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:47.240 to a couple of you. What would you say? What would 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:49.400 you say was the mood there? And what would how 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:52.280 would you what was your impressions from what you gathered 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:56.320 of the of the traditional broadcast upfronts, which of course 0:09:56.600 --> 0:09:57.920 include a lot more platforms. 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:02.120 Now the New fronts. Boy, they've really tried to make 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:06.120 a COVID. It's it's just really penned the uh, the 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:10.200 redheaded step child of the of the Upfront's big brother. 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:14.640 So you know this this year. YouTube did a small 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:20.800 presentation at the New Fronts earlier this month, but they, 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:23.640 for the second year in a row, wanted to be 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:27.360 part of the TV up Front Week, so they you know, 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:31.160 had their event at Lincoln Center David Geffen Hall on Wednesday. 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:35.960 By the way, I was looking for for writers, strikers, 0:10:36.080 --> 0:10:43.280 no picket line, nobody in sight, because YouTube creators aren't unionized. 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:46.760 I mean maybe some of them are, and there have 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:51.760 been attempts to have you know, Internet creator unions, but 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:54.480 those those, as far as they know, haven't really gone anywhere. 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:58.720 But the YouTube is is an outlier in this group, right, 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:00.640 I mean, even compared with net Flix. And I'm sure 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:02.800 we'll talk a little bit more about Netflix in a second, 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:09.440 but YouTube doesn't really produce content. They rely on their creators. 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:14.160 I mean, they did have kind of a traditional feeling 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:18.080 upfront thing because Roger Goodell walked out on stage and said. 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:22.120 Hey, I'm a the NFL Fanfare and you. 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:26.720 Know, he said his candor marks and you know, try 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:30.080 to get people excited about not just buying ads in 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:35.240 Sunday ticket but in the live NFL games. But you know, 0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:40.360 The pitch from YouTube is you can buy football, you 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:44.840 know in all of these different channels right on YouTube 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:47.360 creators who they're going to send you know, they're sending 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:50.920 mister Beast into the locker room of some of these 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:54.280 NFL teams too, and he's got one hundred and fifty 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:56.240 three million followers, so. 0:11:57.640 --> 0:11:59.240 I hope they tell the players. 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:04.080 Yeah. The interesting thing to me, the takeaway that I 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:07.920 had from YouTube was like, it's like YouTube. I mean, 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:11.440 YouTube is like TV used to be. They have this 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:15.600 tremendous reach. They have one hundred and fifty million viewers. 0:12:15.840 --> 0:12:18.320 Well that was in the month of December. Who knows 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:23.480 how long they're watching or what they're watching, because you know, 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:27.480 it's not really directly comfortable to Nielsen TV ratings. But 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:31.240 here's YouTube saying, look, we've got every kind of content 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:34.920 that people want to watch, and that includes you know 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:40.600 the YouTube TV, traditional pay TV packaged Oh hey, advertisers, 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.480 you can also buy that inventory with us, and you 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:47.080 know that's clean and that's a well lighted space, and 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:51.040 we're going to sell you the top five percent most engaged, 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:57.240 most viewed content on YouTube and it's and you're getting 0:12:57.320 --> 0:13:00.079 the reach and frequency that used to get on and 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:02.719 broadcast TV way back in the day. 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:06.360 But that is an interesting packaging those two things, like 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:10.720 the old guard of old linear you know, basically linear 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:20.360 cable but delivered virtually. Well, that segues into kind of 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:22.400 my next to my next sort of theme that I 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:25.840 wanted to talk about the cell. Did anybody we don't 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:27.640 have to go net, we don't have to go upfront 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:31.000 by upfront, but just your impression. Did anybody impress you 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.920 in terms of how they sold themselves, how they either 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:37.680 sold their wares or talked to advertisers about they all have. 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:40.920 They all come up with here's our new program that 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:43.439 has a clever name, and you know, but was there 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:47.480 anybody that just impressed you at like how they packaged themselves, 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:50.480 how they sold here's our profile, here's our audience, Here's 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:53.160 what this network goes for versus that network. 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:57.000 I thought Disney probably did the best job. They just 0:13:57.080 --> 0:14:00.240 had a car hit sports. You want big audience, says 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:02.679 here they are. Here's Peyton Manning, Here's Serena Williams. 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:05.840 Here's Mode Night Football super Bowls coming in twenty twenty seven. 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:10.000 Then they segued into scripted, but everything that was sent 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:14.920 with a streaming outlet. So FX's shows ron Kulu and 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:17.240 Here's Marvel and here Star Wars. 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:17.880 On Disney Plus. 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:22.440 So even even their their scriptive stuff had a streaming component. 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:26.200 So I think they hit sports news. Even the segment 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:28.320 on local station, which I think is very unusual for 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:30.800 the upfront. They had the New York w ABC anchors 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:33.400 come out for a spot, which is I think almost 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:36.200 unheard of at the upfront to have the local anchor 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:37.200 talk for a while. 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:39.600 I thought Disney. 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:42.840 I think Disney knows this is what's selling right now, 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:44.040 big audiences and. 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:46.800 Then precise strupped up through streaming. We don't need to 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:50.520 talk about ABC or free Form or or FX. Let's 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:51.200 as get them what they. 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:54.480 Want, which is audiences, big, big audiences, and then precision 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:55.080 to follow. 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:59.600 And well, you gotta think that Netflix, for all their protests, 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:01.720 are going to have to look at sports at some point. 0:15:03.040 --> 0:15:09.080 Exactly what you just said. 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:33.800 Don't even think about touching that dial. We'll be right 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:44.080 back after this break. I hope that pause was refreshing, 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:49.440 and now back to varieties upfronts round table. Jenny and Joe, 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:51.680 what impress you? You guys know, you guys are so 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:54.320 finger on the pulse of these fandoms. Do you think 0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:58.720 anything impressed you there, like any any new potential, anybody 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:01.760 impressed you as like they get their fandoms, they know 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:03.920 how to talk to their fandoms. 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:06.200 Well, I think it's like Brian said, I mean, I 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:08.600 think Disney did the best job just in terms of 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:11.440 spectacle at this sort of a thing. I mean, like 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:13.800 you said, they had Serena Williams, they had Peyton Manning, 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:15.920 they had you know, DeMar Hamlin came out to a 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:18.720 standing ovation which I've never seen in an upfront. 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:20.000 Before go Bills. 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:21.560 Yeah. 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.840 But then just but then, since there wasn't really much 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:27.880 scripted content to talk about given everything going on with 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:29.960 the strike, the fact that they were able to bring 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:33.240 out Kevin Figee Kathleen Kennedy to come talk about big 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:36.800 upcoming Marvel shows like Secret Invasion, big upcoming Star Wars 0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:37.600 shows like. 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:39.720 Skeleton Crew, like The Acolyte. 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:43.800 And then the one that really got me was they 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:47.520 had this incredible presentation for the FX show Showgun based 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:49.680 on the book that's been that you know, that's a 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:52.320 passion project of John Langrass that's been in the work 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:56.960 at that network since twenty eighteen, and then they just 0:16:57.040 --> 0:16:59.400 had this huge thing with all these performers coming out 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:03.320 in like samurai armor, having like this big mock sword 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:07.440 battle going up through the aisleways onto the stage. 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:09.480 And I mean it's Disney. 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:11.080 I mean, so they can they can kind of afford 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:12.480 to do something like that, But I mean, no one 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:15.360 else came close in terms of the spectacle for something 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:17.000 like that. I mean because I mean again, like I 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:19.280 have a pretty good sense of like what's happening, like 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:21.119 what's coming out in TV at any given time. I 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:23.879 had completely forgotten about Showgun, you know, and now I'm like, 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:25.560 oh yeah, check that show out when it comes out. 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:26.240 That was pretty cool. 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:30.760 But then that's the kind of thing upfront where it 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:33.200 used to be known for how spectacle. This is why 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:36.120 you buy with us, you know, these are the experiences 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:38.480 that that everyone wants to hear about. We think to 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:41.399 take a different world, and I think Disney had it, 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:42.639 but many others did not. 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:47.000 Do you think Netflix would have been more interesting and 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:48.199 impressive in person? 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:52.639 I do, especially for the first time. I think the 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:54.200 other networks you can you. 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:56.080 Kind of know what you're gonna get with something the 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:58.760 Fox and ABC, But Netflix, I. 0:17:58.680 --> 0:17:59.920 Think the in person would have helped. 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:03.000 Especially they hand the Russale Brothers and Anthon some very 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:04.080 big products coming out. 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:06.240 They have a lot in the can that that is 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:06.840 probably there. 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:09.680 They are edge against the networks who are all worried 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:11.240 about how much kind of has to lay everything right. 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:13.880 Yourn's out. Netflix has got a ton in the off 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:15.840 thing Stranger Things Finale. 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:17.680 I mean, there's a lot of stuff there and I 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:21.439 think I'm close and personal with the buyers, might have 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:22.080 done more. 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:22.600 For them this year. 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:25.520 Well, one thing that I think Earners did do that 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:27.560 that Disney did to and you know, not to continue 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:30.600 to talk about Disney, but I appreciate the moments where 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:33.400 they banked what they did have as news to give 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:34.040 as news. 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:35.960 Right, So, like Joe said. 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.200 Having Kevin Draggy and Kathleen Kennedy be able to come 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:42.160 out and announce premier dates or announce things in show 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:44.639 first looks were the Discovery had a decent number of 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:48.320 announcements too. They have two Food Network shows with Selena Gomez. 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:52.040 That's something slashy that you can announce there and not 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:55.040 everyone had a lot in the way of big announcements 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:55.520 to make. 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:57.880 Like Fox, Fox got to say it's. 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:00.600 Losing time on one but p that you know, there 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:03.680 weren't a lot of big moments. One thing I'll say, 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:05.600 and this needs like a giant asterisk next to it 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:08.840 because it wasn't an upfront but the SEW. 0:19:08.320 --> 0:19:09.119 Really impressed me. 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:10.800 And it could be because it was Thursday and I 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:13.000 was tired by the end of the week, but it 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:16.119 was an exciting one to go to because so many 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:18.960 people had the question of what is the CW when 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:22.159 we've been waiting so long to hear Dennis Beller and 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:24.639 Bradswords like actually sit down in front of press and 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:26.360 answer questions about what they're. 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:29.520 Going to be And Joan and I had the privilege. 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:32.320 Of sitting down with them privately afterwards and talking to them, 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:35.360 and I left that feeling like pretty impressed that they 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:40.719 do have a plan and that it's not apparent immediately 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:44.000 because they, like everyone else, have a very strike proof 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:48.560 fallse schedule. It's very acquisition heavy, but they're in production 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:50.480 on a lot of things, and they have a lot 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:52.640 of stuff in development. I'm not going to say any 0:19:52.640 --> 0:19:56.399 of it because my colleague is not tracking it, but 0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:59.919 they did make me feel like we're we've all be 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:02.360 kind of wondering what they're doing. We still give them 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:05.280 a hard time, but they have a strategy and they 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:05.840 have a plan. 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:09.040 Like Jenny said, I mean I left that presentation thinking, like, 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:12.880 you know, this actually in terms of delivering a profit, 0:20:13.119 --> 0:20:15.680 you know, to shareholders and like and like actually making 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:18.320 this thing successful in the traditional sense of a business, 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:20.520 this actually does make a lot of sense. 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:22.000 And then you just have to see where they take 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:22.760 it beyond this. 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:25.360 I mean, you know, obviously the writer's strike is impacting everything, 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:27.480 you know, and Brad Schwartz had this great line where 0:20:27.520 --> 0:20:29.479 he says, you know, people keep people keep knocking us 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:31.680 for these cheap acquisitions, and he's like, first of all, 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:33.920 these are not cheap acquisitions. Second of all, a good 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:35.960 show is a good show. I mean, if it airs 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:39.320 on if it aired in Canada prior to this, what's 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:41.760