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Speaker 1: Native LAMPID is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership with

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Speaker 1: Reason Choice Media.

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Speaker 2: Welcome home, y'all.

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Speaker 1: This is episode one hundred and five of Native LAMPI,

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Speaker 1: where we give you our breakdown of all things politics

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Speaker 1: and culture.

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Speaker 2: We are your host.

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Speaker 1: I'm Angela Rye, Tiffany Cross, Andrew Gillim and Bacari Sellers,

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Speaker 1: the non Beyonce of the group.

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Speaker 3: Let's start Let's start over. I don't want to do

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Speaker 3: this in posts, but I think I should be. I

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Speaker 3: don't know why I mentioned last, but keep.

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Speaker 2: Going, Sellers and the show continues.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, we are here to talk to you all

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Speaker 1: about all the things that are happening right now.

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Speaker 2: Shameless plug really quick.

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Speaker 1: I did an episode with Kamala Harris on election Night

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Speaker 1: live in Seattle, Washington from Benner Royal Hall. That episode

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Speaker 1: is now up. We hope you all will check it

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Speaker 1: out and let us know what you think. But y'all,

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Speaker 1: what are we getting into today?

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Speaker 4: What aren't we getting into? How about this? How about

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Speaker 4: this negotiation in Washington, d C. Around the opening of

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Speaker 4: the government. Who won, who lost? Who didn't? Where we at?

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Speaker 4: I'm interested?

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Speaker 1: I agree, Andrew, I'm right there with you Bacari tip

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Speaker 1: what y'all got?

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Speaker 3: Go ahead?

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Speaker 5: No, I've learned I heard in the intro. Is not

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Speaker 5: gonna last.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you, thank you for thank you for

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Speaker 3: giving me my due respect.

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Speaker 2: Lady, he'll get it tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: Keep going, go ahead, Tim, No, well.

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Speaker 5: No, lady, first you talking about you anyway, I'm gonna

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Speaker 5: have y'all about me.

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Speaker 2: She was a bad first.

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Speaker 4: Quickly alone.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, mama, mississ Sella's I'm sorry to have to

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Speaker 3: use this using this language. There's a lot going on.

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Speaker 3: I mean, first of all, to piggyback on Andrew's point,

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Speaker 3: we're going to get into all of those things. But

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Speaker 3: then the pinky promus with the ACA vote that came

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Speaker 3: up on Tammy Ballin's piece of legislation, and they've been

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Speaker 3: giving out Michelin stars. I saw a little report recently

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Speaker 3: at a strip club in Charlotte, got a ordered a

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Speaker 3: Michelin star. I'm checking the veracity of that, and by

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Speaker 3: checking it meaning I'm gonna go in and see if

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Speaker 3: the Michelin start about food is working. Listen, people gotta

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Speaker 3: make this topic. People gotta you know, it's hard out here, man.

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Speaker 3: They might get their money and so I want to

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Speaker 3: make sure I'm contributing in the community.

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Speaker 5: I look forward to that report.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, I got you, gotcha, Thank you.

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Speaker 4: Please bring evidence, lady.

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Speaker 5: You know, I'm really excited to hear from our viewers

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Speaker 5: every week. I really appreciate people taking time to get

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Speaker 5: on camera and sending us videos, comments, questions, all of that.

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Speaker 5: So I'm excited to hear what you all have to

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Speaker 5: say about this week, and I'm excited for me and

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Speaker 5: the co host to win. And lastly, we have a

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Speaker 5: conversation about Donald Trump rigging the twenty twenty six elections

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Speaker 5: that has been talked about on this show at nauseum.

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Speaker 5: We even have questioned whether or not we should be

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Speaker 5: telling y'all how many days are.

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Speaker 2: Left until the election.

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Speaker 1: Joining us for that really important conversation is Ari Berman,

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Speaker 1: an incredible author and a journalist at Mother Jones who

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Speaker 1: wrote a piece on what Donald Trump will do to

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Speaker 1: rig the twenty twenty six elections.

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Speaker 2: Let's get into it, y'all.

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Speaker 6: All right, this fight for us is not partisan. It's

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Speaker 6: not a partisan fight. It's a patriotic fight. We're waging

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Speaker 6: this fight on behalf of the American people. The five

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Speaker 6: states that are most impacted by a failure to extend

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Speaker 6: the Affordable Care Act tax credits are West Virginia, Wyoming, Alaska, Mississippi,

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Speaker 6: and Tennessee.

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Speaker 3: Forty five percent of the people.

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Speaker 6: Of the Americans who are going to lose healthcare or

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Speaker 6: be at risk of losing health care if they don't

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Speaker 6: on the other side of the out extend the Affordable

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Speaker 6: Care Act tax credits. Forty five percent of them are

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Speaker 6: registered Republicans, thirty five percent registered Democrats, and twenty percent

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Speaker 6: unaffiliated are independent. This is not a partisan fight for us.

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Speaker 6: It's a patriotic fight, okay, everyone.

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Speaker 1: So we are just on the other side of the

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Speaker 1: longest shut down in government history forty one days, and

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Speaker 1: the Democrats on the Senate side are being told that

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Speaker 1: they caved, that they folded, and are being called losers

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Speaker 1: frankly by a lot of folks throughout this country. But

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Speaker 1: there are other folks who have also been talked about

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Speaker 1: as being losers, Republicans certainly government workers, the folks who

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Speaker 1: lost out their snap benefits, so literally losing, and then

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Speaker 1: all of the folks who would be covered by the

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Speaker 1: Affordable Care Act, that is the whole of America also

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Speaker 1: losing here, So I wanted to have a conversation with

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Speaker 1: my colleagues about who they think the biggest loser is

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Speaker 1: of the government shut down. So, if we were doing

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Speaker 1: a rapid round, really quick, what do y'all think, who

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Speaker 1: is the biggest loser?

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Speaker 3: Andrew the American people, American people, Tiff.

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Speaker 5: I'll be quick, But to put it in context of

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Speaker 5: political terms of Republicans versus Democrats, I think it's so

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Speaker 5: disrespectful to the actual losers. And that's to everyday people

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Speaker 5: who are impacted by this show.

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Speaker 3: She said, all I have to say just what we said.

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Speaker 5: A lot of people saying like what does this mean

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Speaker 5: for Democrats? And what does this mean for the path forward?

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Speaker 5: And it's like, I'm thinking about people who ain't got

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Speaker 5: food to eat and who backed up name mortgage, Like, yeah.

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Speaker 1: We were just trying to do a rapp and I

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Speaker 1: was gonna be honest with y'all. It is for social

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Speaker 1: We'll do what we can with the clue. What I

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Speaker 1: will say here, too, is I actually think the biggest

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Speaker 1: losers here are all of the staffers who worked hard

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Speaker 1: on an issue and did not get to see the

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Speaker 1: what a win might be looked like. And I think

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Speaker 1: that folks deserve that, So let's get into this conversation.

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Speaker 1: I know that there's a lot behind those short answers.

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Speaker 1: Bacari already has his hands up because he thinks he's

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Speaker 1: at school. That's what happens when you bring toddlers to

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Speaker 1: your podcast platform.

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Speaker 2: For and Ma, car, what do he have?

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Speaker 3: No, I just watched Andrew struggle long enough to get

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Speaker 3: a question out, So that that was me. I'm using

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Speaker 3: the tools.

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Speaker 4: I've been watching a different a different different tax.

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Speaker 3: I think I just have a question for you all,

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Speaker 3: which is what did Democrats do it for?

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Speaker 5: Oh?

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Speaker 2: You want us to answer?

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Speaker 3: No? No, that was that was I mean, if in fact,

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Speaker 3: you have ten people under the cover of dark or

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Speaker 3: eight people under the cover of darkness who vote to

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Speaker 3: in the shutdown, what were the last sixty forty days for?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 3: What what what was it about? I know what we

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Speaker 3: said it's about, but what what what do we what's gained?

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Speaker 3: What was gained?

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Speaker 5: Well, well, I think those are two different questions. What

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Speaker 5: was gained obviously you know nothing from my perspective. I mean,

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Speaker 5: they weren't ready for this game and it was such

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Speaker 5: a disappointment. But what it was about's healthcare? Which is

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Speaker 5: a really big deal.

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Speaker 2: For years, for.

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Speaker 5: Some strange reason, the GOP has had such a heart

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Speaker 5: on for repealing the Affordable Care Act a ACA. And

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Speaker 5: more than twenty four million people depend on this, and

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Speaker 5: so we're going to see it's not just majorities, but

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Speaker 5: vast majorities who are facing their healthcare premiums going up

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Speaker 5: by more than one hundred and fourteen percent. So people

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Speaker 5: are going to be questioning, do I go to the

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Speaker 5: grocery store, do I go see the doctor. Republicans, you know,

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Speaker 5: control both the chambers. They control the House, in the

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Speaker 5: upper chamber in the Senate, and so Democrats had for

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Speaker 5: the first time some negotiating power. And so you know,

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Speaker 5: the Kansas are the KFF. They have an analysis out

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Speaker 5: about the average cost of what people are going to

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Speaker 5: be paying for health care. It can go up to

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Speaker 5: more than one thousand dollars for some people. So imagine

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Speaker 5: for some people this might be an inconvenience, but if

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Speaker 5: you have a life threatening illness and you're depending on this.

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Speaker 5: This is why I think we have to draw the

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Speaker 5: distinction between structural violence, institutional violence, and physical violence. And

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Speaker 5: right now all of these things are being rained down

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Speaker 5: upon us by the federal government. So I don't want

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Speaker 5: to dismiss the efforts of the Democrats and trying to

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Speaker 5: hold the line for healthcare. Sadly though, I think they

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Speaker 5: brought a knife to a gunfight. You know, they were

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Speaker 5: too eager to capitulate, and they weren't really ready for this.

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Speaker 5: They could have had kids out there, like, get real

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Speaker 5: live people out there. Get an eight year old standing

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Speaker 5: in front of a camera saying, Donald Trump, I don't

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Speaker 5: have anything to eat because you know, snap didn't come

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Speaker 5: this month. Get somebody sick on camera saying, you know,

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Speaker 5: I don't know if I'm going to be able to

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Speaker 5: live beyond next year, to even vote in twenty twenty

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Speaker 5: six because this president Donald Trump is threatening to take

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Speaker 5: away my health care. And I just I feel like

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Speaker 5: they were not ready for the moment, and it is

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Speaker 5: such a colossal disappointment to so many people because they

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Speaker 5: ask us to fight every year, They ask us to

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Speaker 5: show up and vote every year, and when it's time

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Speaker 5: to show up for us, the rising majority, the base

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Speaker 5: for Democrat voters, they don't do it. So I definitely

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Speaker 5: understand the frustration all around, and appreciate and understand the

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Speaker 5: frustration in your question.

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Speaker 4: So I offer a thought on a few thoughts on

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Speaker 4: what I think they did it for, and we can

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Speaker 4: each check the box or not as to whether or

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Speaker 4: not it was accomplished. One, I think they needed to fight.

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Speaker 4: At the point that they declared that they were going

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Speaker 4: to deny the Republicans culture the sixty votes that they

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Speaker 4: needed in the US Senate, they basically laid down to

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Speaker 4: the gland said we're prepared to fight. And I got

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Speaker 4: to tell you, given the members of the Democratic Caucus

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Speaker 4: and the US Senate, they ranged from everything from Republican

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Speaker 4: light to the left of the left of the left,

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Speaker 4: liberal socialists in the case of Bernie Sanders, who's an

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Speaker 4: independent but caucuses with the Democrats. So the fact that

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Speaker 4: the leader was able to hold together people who cannot

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Speaker 4: stomach a shutdown. I mean, there are members of the

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Speaker 4: Democratic Caucus who have decried using the shutdown as a

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Speaker 4: way to make up political point and would never have

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Speaker 4: never before been in favor of it. Who Chuck Schumer

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Speaker 4: got to stick with him for forty days. And I

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Speaker 4: think the American people needed to see Democrats do something

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Speaker 4: to show that they had a fight to them. And

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Speaker 4: I think in the moment that that happened. You saw

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Speaker 4: a lot, You saw a lot of people stand up,

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Speaker 4: speak out from everyday people who, quite frankly, I think

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Speaker 4: inspired this shutdown. The people who were showing up at

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Speaker 4: these protests on the streets, who were chasing down ice,

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Speaker 4: trying to say, get out of our neighborhood, so on

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Speaker 4: and so forth. I think they inspired much of what

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Speaker 4: the members of the elected US Senate did so, and

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Speaker 4: I think that they were successful in bringing a fight

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Speaker 4: number two. I'm not sure that the previous the elections

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Speaker 4: of a week ago would have been as successful across

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Speaker 4: the board for Democratic candidates as they were at every

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Speaker 4: level of government, from dogcatcher to governor of the of

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Speaker 4: a state. And not only did Democrats win in many

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Speaker 4: of those places, and many of those places they thumped

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Speaker 4: the Republicans. I mean rounded lapse races that were supposed

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Speaker 4: to be too close to call or down to the

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Speaker 4: last minute, got called an hour after the polls closed.

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Speaker 4: And in the cases of the two governors I'm sorry,

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Speaker 4: the governor of New Jersey and of Virginia, they got

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Speaker 4: double digit leads on their opponents when they were not

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Speaker 4: expected to. I think that the shutdown the energy around.

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Speaker 4: The pushback in the fight helped to inspire people to

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Speaker 4: go to the wall and go to the mat for

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Speaker 4: their elected leadership that they saw was going to the

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Speaker 4: mat for them. And I think, I think, I think, finally,

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Speaker 4: I would say the ending of the fight was one

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Speaker 4: that could have easily been anticipated by all of us.

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Speaker 4: You took a caucus who is already reticent to use

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Speaker 4: the shutdown as a political cudgel to move public policy.

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Speaker 4: You had a caucus that did not appear fractured up

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Speaker 4: until the point that they started to negotiate to open

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Speaker 4: the government again. Aside from that, none of us would

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Speaker 4: have been able to name one Senator who was trying

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Speaker 4: to shut the open the government up against the caucus's wishes.

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Speaker 4: They pretty much stuck together until after the elections, when

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Speaker 4: when when they when they couldn't stomach it anymore. But

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Speaker 4: the reason why I say all of us could have

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Speaker 4: predicted the end of this and quite the way that

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Speaker 4: it ended, is one no one has ever extracted major

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Speaker 4: public policy concessions from a shutdown, not Republicans and not

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Speaker 4: Democrats over our history. Two of the two party system.

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Speaker 4: Democrats were always going to be the ones who could

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Speaker 4: never stomach, a president using children, using the employment of

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Speaker 4: federal workers, using withholding food to families as a weapon

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Speaker 4: against their opponent. We never anticipated a president would be

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Speaker 4: willing to go so far against the American people to

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Speaker 4: prove his political point. But this president was, and we

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Speaker 4: know him to be almost diabolical and in formation. So

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Speaker 4: when you compare the two Democrats were always gonna be

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Speaker 4: the ones who had a heart for people. They were

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Speaker 4: always going to be the ones who buckled under the

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Speaker 4: pressure to not see people suffer. And if you're at

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Speaker 4: a negotiating table, you'll choose to diabolical one as the

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Speaker 4: one who will be the last to fold every single time.

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Speaker 4: Could we have gotten more with longer? I do think

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Speaker 4: that there could have been more extracted here, But but

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Speaker 4: I always felt it would end. I don't think they

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Speaker 4: begin with an end in mind. I think they began

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Speaker 4: with a fight in mind, and the end would reveal

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Speaker 4: itself over time. And what they decided was after we

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Speaker 4: thumped folks on election day, that presented the opportunity to

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Speaker 4: make this a keystone issue going into the next year's elections,

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Speaker 4: and it was there. It was their opportunity for an out.

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Speaker 4: That's my guess I think.

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Speaker 2: There are a few things.

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Speaker 1: One is I'm also frustrated with what appears to be

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Speaker 1: the lack of strategy around this particular fight. Andrew, I

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Speaker 1: completely agree with you that we never anticipated, and I'm

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Speaker 1: saying we, I'm talking about the whole of the American

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Speaker 1: people never anticipated having someone like this in the White House.

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Speaker 1: But we knew with Project twenty twenty five. We knew

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Speaker 1: with Doge, we knew with the last shutdown from his

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Speaker 1: last administration. We knew from the last administration we were dealing with.

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Speaker 1: The last shutdown that was thirty five days long, I

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Speaker 1: believe was over whether or not we were going to

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Speaker 1: pay for a border wall.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: So I want to be very clear about the fact

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Speaker 1: that we knew who the opponent was. The Senate Democrats

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Speaker 1: knew who the opponent was and still did not go

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Speaker 1: to the battle with the right tools. I think the

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Speaker 1: biggest issue here to your point about what they could stomach,

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Speaker 1: is you have people who are watching folks lose their

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Speaker 1: snap benefits, who are watching folks suffer with healthcare premium

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Speaker 1: coming out saying that they're gonna soar. They want to

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Speaker 1: make sure if people can survive, you know, a serious

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Speaker 1: health crisis and just you know, engage in practices to

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Speaker 1: prevent a crisis. But the reality of it is is

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Speaker 1: they went and said we're going to hold the line.

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Speaker 1: But they were also errant and I think lacking in

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Speaker 1: compassion when they didn't consider who was on the front line.

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Speaker 1: The people on the front line were those children. The

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Speaker 1: people on the front line were the TSA workers. And

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Speaker 1: I'm not talking about the folks who make six figures

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Speaker 1: or above in the federal government who said we want

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Speaker 1: you to hold the line. I'm talking about the folks

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Speaker 1: that are members of AFG right, the Medican American Federation

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Speaker 1: of Government Employees, those who said we want you to

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Speaker 1: reopen the government because we need our paychecks. And I'm

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Speaker 1: just saying, when you don't consider the front line in

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Speaker 1: holding the line, you are always going to lose because

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Speaker 1: who's fighting for you at that point? That is where

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Speaker 1: I think the biggest failure was. And it tells us

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Speaker 1: that many, not just not just the folks who are

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Speaker 1: inn elected office, but we should expect this of our

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Speaker 1: elected officials are still not clear about what it is

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Speaker 1: going to take to adequately combat the enemy.

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Speaker 2: What do I mean by that? I mean, they are fighting.

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Speaker 1: Yester year's fight with yesteryear's tools. That is not going

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Speaker 1: to work. They are showing you that they are ready

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Speaker 1: and primed and poised and it conditioned even right to

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Speaker 1: be a resistance party. They are not poised, ready, or

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Speaker 1: prepared to be an opposition. An opposition party would have

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Speaker 1: shut the government down or worked, you know, to oppose

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Speaker 1: the government reopening. Really with fourteen votes in in County

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Speaker 1: and said, we need to make sure that we have

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Speaker 1: a snap mutual aid fund. We need to ensure that

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Speaker 1: we have a fund for people to pull from if

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Speaker 1: they're not getting their paychecks, for housing, for all of

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Speaker 1: these other things. None of that was set up. They

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Speaker 1: have campaign coffers, some of them where they could have

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Speaker 1: afforded to make donations to nonprofits to keep these people going.

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Speaker 2: That was not done.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't even considered based on the people I talked to,

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Speaker 1: So I just I don't know what they would have expected, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: you're not going to win a long term fight and

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Speaker 1: these people don't give a damn.

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Speaker 2: You're hoping to pierce the consciences of folks who don't

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Speaker 2: no longer have them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but kay, what's your thought?

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Speaker 3: No, I think that from everything that I've seen, I

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Speaker 3: think that Andrew you did hit something, and I think

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Speaker 3: that the largest success was elevating the issue of healthcare

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Speaker 3: to the forefront of individual's minds. Again, we saw on

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Speaker 3: Tuesday that the number one issue that people faced was

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Speaker 3: the economy, in number two was healthcare, and it seems

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Speaker 3: as if in number three was a distant immigration. It

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Speaker 3: seems as if Democrats are finally able to hone in

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Speaker 3: on the message surrounding healthcare. Republicans own all those healthcare

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Speaker 3: premiums rising, There's not a fix for it. Those costs

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Speaker 3: are going to go up, and Democrats own the issue

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Speaker 3: of affordability. Because I see this White House acting a

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Speaker 3: lot like the Joe Biden White House when it came

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Speaker 3: to issues such as immigration and crime, where Joe Biden

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Speaker 3: and I was guilty of this as well, simply wanted

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Speaker 3: it was. We would cite statistics when people were saying

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Speaker 3: that they felt something, that they saw something safe, and

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Speaker 3: we would be like, yeah, nah, but the crime rate,

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Speaker 3: filing crime rate gone down x y z, and people

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Speaker 3: were like, nah, that shit, I still don't feel safe.

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Speaker 3: And so you see that, you see the Trump White

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Speaker 3: House doing something similar with affordability. So Democrats are winning

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Speaker 3: those two issues. The problem that Angela eloquently and passionately

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Speaker 3: hit on is that when we got out of the game,

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Speaker 3: uh you know this week, when we shut the we

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Speaker 3: we shut at the doors, we did so without a

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Speaker 3: messaging apparatus. And so now you depressed your base, which

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Speaker 3: was so excited, and now your base is like, what

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Speaker 3: what what? What happened? Why nobody told us we were

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Speaker 3: going to do this. I mean, if you go out

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Speaker 3: in front of a camera, or you go to a

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Speaker 3: city and you're talking to people about there's too much

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Speaker 3: pain in the streets, Democrats are going to be the

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Speaker 3: adults in the room, and we're going to keep up

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Speaker 3: this fight for health care, but we're going to reopen

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Speaker 3: the government because this pain has gotten unbearable for our constituents.

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Speaker 3: We're going to continue to fight. Then, maybe you don't

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Speaker 3: have people out here who are struggling to comprehend the

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Speaker 3: reason why. I mean, I think the four of us

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Speaker 3: get the reason why. We understand the intricacies. We understand

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Speaker 3: the ups and downs and all arounds, and we can

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Speaker 3: talk to folks, including United States senators and people like

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Speaker 3: that to tell us what is going on. But for

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Speaker 3: people who are working every day, who don't have time

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Speaker 3: to scrow x all day long or on Instagram all

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Speaker 3: day long, they just see that the government opened and

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Speaker 3: Democrats didn't say anything. And I think that that is

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Speaker 3: indicative of a problem we've had since Barack Obama, which

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Speaker 3: is even the good things that we do, we don't

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Speaker 3: know how to message them. It's what I tell. What

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Speaker 3: I tell Black folk call it time. If we don't

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Speaker 3: tell our story, somebody else will, and we have to

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Speaker 3: do a better job, particularly around this issue of sharing

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Speaker 3: our story.

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Speaker 5: I agree with everything that you guys said, particularly Angelou's

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Speaker 5: point around creating an infrastructure when we're in the fight

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Speaker 5: and asking people to hold the line like they're not.

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Speaker 5: The people elected office are not the only people holding

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Speaker 5: the line. The real people holding the line are going

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Speaker 5: to get hurt worse and feel that the fastest, which

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Speaker 5: cast a dark shadow across a lot of other people's lives.

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Speaker 5: Mine included, y'all's included. But I disagree with you Andrew

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Speaker 5: on this point about the excitement around the elections that

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Speaker 5: we saw. I do not think that was necessarily excitement.

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Speaker 5: I think those voters showed up more as a repudiation

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Speaker 5: against Trump more than it was excitement about the Democrats fighting.

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Speaker 5: I think it is comfortable to how black people have

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Speaker 5: always maneuvered in this country, this misconception that so many

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Speaker 5: people have about black folks. So were these Democratic loyalists,

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Speaker 5: which is not true. The majority of the country was

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Speaker 5: voting in favor of harm reduction because I can't really

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Speaker 5: think of a united front of Democrats where I've said, like, wow,

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Speaker 5: like they are great job guys, like they are really

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Speaker 5: kicking ass. And I don't know that a lot of

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Speaker 5: people looked at the shutdown that way.

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Speaker 2: Honestly.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I respect no, no, no, it's all good. I

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Speaker 4: think in some people's minds it isn't. The conscious't. I

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Speaker 4: won't say that this was consciously on the minds of people,

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Speaker 4: but there are things that happened in the ethos that

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Speaker 4: unconsciously motivate us one way or another. And a lot

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Speaker 4: of people everyday, people and us on this platform right here,

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Speaker 4: have gone through days where we said, what what is

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Speaker 4: it going to take? I feel like there's no way

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Speaker 4: to stop him. I feel like my head's on a swivel.

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Speaker 4: If something's coming at us. Every single day, and what

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Speaker 4: that drove a lot of people to was resignation. I'll

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Speaker 4: just back up. I'm just gonna take care of me,

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Speaker 4: you know, get through my day. And when you see

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Speaker 4: people start to form the formations of a front line,

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Speaker 4: it starts to buck us up a little bit. I

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Speaker 4: think it starts to get us, you know, our spine stiff.

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Speaker 4: And he say, you know what, I'm going back out.

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Speaker 4: I'm going back out, Send me in, send me in,

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Speaker 4: I'm going back out. So I think part of it

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Speaker 4: there were candidates, there's the repudiation, but I don't separate

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Speaker 4: the repudiation from a demonstrated effect of elected leaders going

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Speaker 4: out there and saying, no, we're going to stop it.

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Speaker 4: All stop, all the presses, everything stops until we get

439
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,959
Speaker 4: what it is that we want. It would be crazy

440
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:34,920
Speaker 4: of us to think, and would be foolish of us

441
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 4: to tell the American people that this campaign of the

442
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 4: shutdown was going to result, and the Republicans who had

443
00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 4: voted over seventy times to repeal Obamacare deciding, Okay, this

444
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,760
Speaker 4: is it. People are hurting, especially the ones I don't

445
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 4: care about, and so I'm going to change my position

446
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 4: and now go back on my word and my vote

447
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 4: of seventy plus times, and give these folks.

448
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 5: I don't know, I don't know, what can I say

449
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,199
Speaker 5: really quickly? Half of the people in the marketplace for

450
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 5: the ACA are in Republican districts, when they.

451
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:12,879
Speaker 4: So are the people who are at the epicenter of

452
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:14,440
Speaker 4: impact from Trump's actions.

453
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 1: Right and.

454
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:21,919
Speaker 5: Snap precisely, and so their constituents are feeling the brunt

455
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 5: of this too. Had there been better messaging, forget about

456
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:29,640
Speaker 5: partisan politics, had there been better messaging from groups the Democrats,

457
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 5: whichever were you, It didn't matter if they voted for

458
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,879
Speaker 5: a Democrat or not, but you are sending those constituents

459
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:37,960
Speaker 5: that they're elected leaders saying, hey, I can't feed my

460
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 5: family because of what you're doing. I don't give a damn. Instead,

461
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 5: a lot of people sat back and let them control

462
00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 5: the narrative and introduce stupid things like the Democratics shut down.

463
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 5: There was not enough pushback, and it was too many

464
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 5: echo chambers regurgitating things that were not accurate, not true,

465
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:57,199
Speaker 5: and so people are just sitting around like I don't know.

466
00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 5: I mean, the data showed, the polling show that most

467
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 5: people did describe lame to the Republicans, but I don't

468
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 5: think people were ready to seize on that and take them.

469
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: The numbers also started shifting, be I know you were

470
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,440
Speaker 1: jumping in here, but I just want to just one

471
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 1: other quick point. The numbers in the polling data started

472
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,200
Speaker 1: shifting towards the middle. It almost felt like our country

473
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 1: from looking at just the numbers were evenly split. And

474
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,119
Speaker 1: I got to tell you, guys, I started feeling torn

475
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 1: myself about not whose fault it was, but whether or

476
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: not this was the right fight because of what Andrew

477
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,439
Speaker 1: just raised around ACA. They've always voted to repeal and

478
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 1: replace Obamacare. They're trying to get to a point where

479
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,640
Speaker 1: they have trump Care. Trump Care will be HSA's health

480
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,720
Speaker 1: savings accounts where you're not going to be able to

481
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,280
Speaker 1: afford chemo or if you have any other life threatening

482
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:45,640
Speaker 1: emergency to cover it. Sure, it'll cover your check up, right,

483
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,440
Speaker 1: But one medical for like if your leg falls off,

484
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 1: is not the solution. Yeah, shout out to one medical

485
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 1: because I also use it.

486
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 2: But I'm just saying, off, I don't know.

487
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 3: That ain't falling off. But yeah, yes, I get your point.

488
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 1: Now amputated and I'm just saying, what hold on be

489
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: because now you're going to make me forget. The only

490
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 1: thing I was going to say is when you're asking

491
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 1: people to start caring about something that they have repeatedly

492
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 1: told you in multiple congresses they don't care about constituents,

493
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 1: be damned by the way. I don't know if that

494
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 1: was the right fight. I will also say that it was.

495
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 1: I already said that, go ahead, a card.

496
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 3: I think it's something a little bit more simple than that.

497
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 3: I think Andrew hit on it. I think Tiffany was

498
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 3: saying the same thing. Look, we haven't been able to

499
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,879
Speaker 3: say Democrats were winners in a very long period of time.

500
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 3: We also haven't been able to say Democrats were fighters

501
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 3: in a very long period of time, not since twenty twenty. Right,

502
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 3: that mantra hasn't been something. And people like I mean,

503
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 3: it's very simple. People like winners, people like fighters. And

504
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 3: I think both of you all are saying the same

505
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 3: thing in different ways. I mean, you're just saying in

506
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 3: the inverse way, because Tiffany's right. But what happened was

507
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 3: those Trump voters were depressed on Tuesday. Last Tuesday. They

508
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 3: didn't get what they were counting on. They just thought

509
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 3: that everybody else was going to be persecuted. They just

510
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 3: thought Trump was going to come in and shit on

511
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 3: everybody else. They didn't realize that he put them all

512
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 3: in a toilet together, right, And so you had what,

513
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 3: to your point, Tiffany, you had a depressed voting base

514
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 3: on that side and a voting base that wasn't excited

515
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 3: because they realized that Trump looked at them the same

516
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 3: way he looks at us. And then to Andrews's point,

517
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 3: you had people who believed whether or not it was

518
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:31,439
Speaker 3: it wasn't about them. And I think you're right about this.

519
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 3: It wasn't necessarily about the shutdown. What it was, though,

520
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 3: was this movement of energy, and they were just happy

521
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 3: to be a part of the fight. They were happy

522
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,960
Speaker 3: to be a part of energy, and they saw the

523
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 3: other side beat down so much. I think sometimes politics

524
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 3: is more simple than people give it credit.

525
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:48,199
Speaker 7: For.

526
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 3: The reason why Trump is very successful is because he

527
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 3: has pulled off the greatest con in American history. He

528
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,919
Speaker 3: twice twice, but he convinced, He convinced poor people that

529
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 3: a man who shits and olden toilets.

530
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 4: Is for them champion.

531
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,960
Speaker 3: He is their champion. It's when we look back at

532
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 3: history at that simple fact and how he was able

533
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 3: to do that so successfully. People are going to be

534
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 3: rich writing that book because it's so so fascinating. But

535
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 3: those same people who he convinced of that not once,

536
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 3: not twice, but three times. People forget that he had

537
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 3: a lot come out three times. Those same people they

538
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 3: finally came to this resident, they just resigned themselves to

539
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 3: not even participating in the process. And I think you

540
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 3: saw and the way, the place you saw that more

541
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 3: than anywhere was in Georgia, because not only did Democrats

542
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,639
Speaker 3: run up the score in every single county, but you

543
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 3: saw Republican strongholds just not even come out. That level

544
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,400
Speaker 3: of depression, I believe is something that will be analyzed

545
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 3: as well.

546
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 4: Can I say on the issue.

547
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 3: What I say wrong?

548
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 2: Nothing? What you said wrong?

549
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 5: But I am always hesitant to give so much credit

550
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 5: in convincing, you know, poor people that he's their champion

551
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 5: because he didn't do that alone.

552
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 2: He had a lot of help.

553
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 5: One I said last week, the Republican base they're united

554
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 5: in our destruction, so they don't really have to agree

555
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 5: on the lot except that we hate these black and

556
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,880
Speaker 5: brown folks and they're stealing from us. Two I will

557
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 5: say this until my death. I don't give a shit

558
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 5: if it's etched on my tombstone. The media was willing

559
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 5: to accept his narrative even now. You hear the media

560
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 5: when they were talking about his beef with Elon and

561
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 5: they were like, well, you've got these two alpha males

562
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 5: in what universe? Is he an alpha male? He has

563
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 5: a mitch if ever we've seen one, I've never seen.

564
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 5: He wouldn't bust a grape in a fruit fight like

565
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 5: he There's nobody I know who would saying this dude

566
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 5: is an alpha male. But they will take that and

567
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 5: carry that message. They also have a habit of presenting

568
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 5: something that is illogical, non factual, and then taking a

569
00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 5: legitimate point and presenting these two things to the audience like, okay, guys,

570
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 5: have at it. What do you think. So it wasn't

571
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 5: that he was some genius communicator. It wasn't that he

572
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 5: was so smart. I mean, if you just read the

573
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 5: transcripts of some of his speech, if you just watch

574
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 5: his debate performance, if you listen to things that he says,

575
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,719
Speaker 5: when you watch him on the global stage, he has

576
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 5: a national and international embarrassment. So I don't think he

577
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,160
Speaker 5: has this charisma. I think what is so seductive to

578
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 5: America and this makes it harder to beat. So I

579
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,200
Speaker 5: don't know how we beat this, and I don't want

580
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 5: to depress our audience and sound resign. But what is

581
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 5: so seductive to the American people is the power of whiteness.

582
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 5: So Trump might die, but trump Ism is alive and

583
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 5: well because if you can be white, white adjacent, if

584
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 5: you can abandon your people and get favor on their

585
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 5: side of the divide, that will always appeal to low level,

586
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 5: incurious people who are willing to cut their nose off

587
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 5: to spite their face, even if it means they're going

588
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 5: to hurt themselves if it hurts us, They're okay with that.

589
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 3: So let me just let me clarify my point real quick,

590
00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 3: because I do think and I just I just disagree

591
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 3: with you, Tiffany, because I do think that it's I

592
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 3: think we all have this resignation that we don't like

593
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 3: the man, like a disgust right for what he stands for,

594
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 3: how he carries himself, how he treats people. But what

595
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 3: I'm talking about is the candidate that Trump was. Now,

596
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 3: mind you, he used racism as political currency in a

597
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 3: fashion that we have not seen in a very long time. Right,

598
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 3: not only is he racist, but he used racism as currency. Yes,

599
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 3: And what I mean by that for people who are

600
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 3: listening is I remember I recall being in the studio

601
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 3: one day when he was being interviewed by Jake Tapper

602
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 3: and they were asking him to disavowed David Duke. It

603
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 3: was a Sunday, and he was like, man, I don't

604
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 3: even know who that is. But what was happening on

605
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 3: Tuesday was Mississippi was voting in their Republican primary. Right,

606
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 3: And so there was always this how do we use

607
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 3: this racism as politics? But there was also something else

608
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 3: about Donald Trump that a lot of poor folk, a

609
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 3: lot of poor white folk, a lot of people gravitated

610
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 3: to one. He has this perception of wealth. He has

611
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 3: this now he'dn't been bankrupt thirty seven million times, all

612
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 3: this other stuff, it's this perception of wealth. He also

613
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 3: gave off this perception of I'm a winner, right, He

614
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 3: talked about it all the time. I'm a winner, You're

615
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 3: a loser. I'm a winner, you're a loser. It's very,

616
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 3: very simplistic. But he also gave out this if I'm wealthy,

617
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 3: I can teach you how to be wealthy. I'm strong,

618
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 3: I can teach you how to be strong. And it

619
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 3: was very simple messaging that resonated to those same people

620
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 3: that came out and voted for him. I mean, eighty

621
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 3: million people voted for this guy. Eighty million, and we

622
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 3: have to wrestle with the why. I mean, I just

623
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 3: think we can't discount the why of that. And it's

624
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 3: not giving him props because I refuse to do that.

625
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 3: But what I am saying is, as a candidate, and

626
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 3: something we even saw recently in this kind of pull

627
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 3: and tug of snap and healthcare benefits, et cetera, is

628
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 3: the why people voted for him also leads to the

629
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 3: disappointment they're facing today.

630
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, especially because Angela, before you go to Bcar's last

631
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 4: point on the why people feel more connected, because there

632
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 4: have been six that's what wealthy people, all of them

633
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 4: been wealthy and successful that will run for president. The

634
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 4: difference is as I actually think he's like he reflects

635
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 4: for them, like that guy's like me, right, he he

636
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 4: overdoses on McDonald's and cheeseburgers and and happy meals or

637
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 4: whatever it is that you know, they say about him.

638
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 4: He he he is, to use the term from from

639
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 4: from from tiffany sort of incurious in all ways, right,

640
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 4: he doesn't.

641
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 3: Care about the man. He's dumb of the difference.

642
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 4: He is dumb, but he's not. He knows the difference.

643
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 4: He knows the difference. But what he does is he

644
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 4: played dumb, and he speak dumb, and he and he

645
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 4: put he portrays himself like if you're sitting at home

646
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 4: and you are one of those people who are like

647
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 4: all of us, who aspire to one day have the

648
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 4: means for everything you want and need without a care

649
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 4: in the world. This man has or demonstrates to have

650
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 4: everything he needs and I have not a care in

651
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 4: a world. But he also looks like he may have

652
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 4: come from around the block, down the street, you know,

653
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 4: across the track, and there's a relatability to that because

654
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,719
Speaker 4: the majority of them are that too, not just the

655
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 4: majority are the our our recipients of food stamps, which

656
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 4: I'm not shaming. I had him grown up as well,

657
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 4: so I'm not shaming that. I'm simply saying, this is

658
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 4: the guy who looks like he may have started from

659
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 4: the bottom. Now he's there, even though he started with

660
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 4: a millionaire, a loon from his daddy and flushed that

661
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 4: away and got mar You know, we know the story. However,

662
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 4: he cannote it connotes something else when it's when it's

663
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 4: when it's him, and you can't fake it. It is

664
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 4: what it is, and it has electual electoral persuasion. What

665
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 4: may distance them at some point is if their ship

666
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 4: gets bad enough where they have to reach up, look

667
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 4: up for an alternative. But it hadn't the heat ain't

668
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 4: come strong enough yet, it's still hasn't come.

669
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: I feel like the alternative piece is what's missing, and

670
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: I think that is where the opposition, if they will

671
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: rise to the occasion, are currently failing so on that

672
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: I don't know if they picked the right issue. To

673
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: your point, Andrew voted seventy eighty times to repeal and

674
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:13,800
Speaker 1: replace something, taking it to the Supreme Court how many times,

675
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: Like this is probably not the thing that they're going

676
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 1: to agree with you on. They called it obamacare. We

677
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 1: called it obamacare because we were celebrating. They called it

678
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: obamacare because they're racist, Like it's just that simple, and

679
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 1: so Angela, can.

680
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 4: I disagree with you just on this point, which is

681
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 4: I think it may have been the wrong issue to

682
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 4: get a negotiated settlement with Republicans, but the right issue

683
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 4: for the American people because it is cross partisan in

684
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,720
Speaker 4: the sense that everybody has to deal with health care costs.

685
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 4: When those premium come down, we all got to see

686
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:44,879
Speaker 4: and we all got to pay for them. Those people

687
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 4: on the exchange, they all got to deal with it.

688
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:52,320
Speaker 4: And it's cross pots and that's why Speaker doesign jeffreyd

689
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 4: Jesus New York. Jeffries has said this is non partisan.

690
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 4: This is non partisan, of.

691
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: Course, and that's how we open the show with Hai

692
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 1: Kim Jeffrey's clip saying it's a nonpartisan fight. However, if

693
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: people are still moving their issues aside and what is

694
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:10,879
Speaker 1: in their best interests aside to side with someone who

695
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: is highly partisan in this area and to vote against

696
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,240
Speaker 1: their interests, I think therein lies the problem. Even Bakari,

697
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: I know you wanted to bring up Tammy Balwin's amendment

698
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 1: in the Senate that was voted down. They had the

699
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: one thing that Democrats have been asking for for the

700
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 1: last two weeks is at least this messaging vote so

701
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 1: they get Republicans on the record, just so we're really

702
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 1: clear and we're not ever accused the lines to the

703
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 1: American people. That has been the play for two weeks.

704
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 1: That has been the play for two weeks. They were

705
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 1: willing to open the government back up with at least

706
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 1: eight Democrats in the Senate for a messaging vote, and

707
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: that still wouldn't have been a win for the American people.

708
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: Mike Johnson, when challenged on Jake Tapper Show yesterday, says

709
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: that he's not willing to commit to considering right these

710
00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 1: subsidies again, even after the House reconsiders this. It's not

711
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,959
Speaker 1: clean but their version of a clean continuing resolution. He's

712
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: not committing to considering a bill that would reinstate these

713
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: healthcare subsidies.

714
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 4: But he's not committing. But it's not just to Democrats.

715
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 4: He is now telling the American people who now side

716
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,760
Speaker 4: with this issue that I can't afford what is coming

717
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 4: down the pike. And the Speaker of the House Republican

718
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 4: is telling you, I don't give a damn.

719
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 5: I hope moving forward, everybody knows what the Tammy Baldon

720
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 5: Amendment is. Soakari, did you just want to say, oh, yeah, no.

721
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 3: It just extended the subsidies for one year, which is

722
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 3: the bare bones minimum that people were asking for, so

723
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 3: that for one year you would have those subsidies. And

724
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 3: there was a question of whether or not the subsidies

725
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 3: should be paid directly to the insurance company or be

726
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,439
Speaker 3: paid to the person. That's a that's a cute, little

727
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 3: legitimate inside the Beltway fight that people are having. I

728
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 3: have to dig a little deeper on my analysis to

729
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 3: see where I land. But the fact is the subsidies

730
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 3: are needed to drive down costs. Andrews Andrew, and that

731
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 3: amendment failed across party lines. We didn't get one Republican.

732
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 3: But and Andrew was right. And again I feel like

733
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 3: I'm like learning how to mediate you guys, because Andrew

734
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,399
Speaker 3: was right, and and Angela was right too, Like it

735
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 3: was it was. It's politically it's a no win issue,

736
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 3: and we know that for every reason that Andrew said.

737
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 3: But politically, you know, in terms of political constituencies, it's

738
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 3: a win win issue. You're never going to get them

739
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 3: to change on this, however, because the issue is so transcendent.

740
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 3: It talked to the end. Democrats won on changing the

741
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 3: political conversation very rarely. I mean, you got to remember

742
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 3: a year ago, we were trying to figure out what

743
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 3: bathrooms people could use. We were talking about we were

744
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 3: talking we were, they were but it was but it

745
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 3: was it was monopolizing, right. You remember you had that,

746
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 3: you had the ad, you had that, they ran ads

747
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 3: on it. I mean that was an ad leading up

748
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 3: to the election. We were This was the conversation that

749
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,279
Speaker 3: was being had, right, and now the conversation in the

750
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 3: prison whereby people are evaluating their elected officials has It's

751
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:57,720
Speaker 3: hard to do it, but they were able to parallel

752
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 3: park a submarine. They were able to literally shift the

753
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 3: political discourse and conversation to things that are substance of

754
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,359
Speaker 3: that we went on, like health care. I just think

755
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 3: that's that is the win, and I think that we

756
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 3: just have to we have to take that. Now. The

757
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 3: question is in like always, where do we go from here?

758
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 3: I mean, that's that is the question that I struggle

759
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 3: with all the time. It gives me, It makes my

760
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 3: anxiety rage because.

761
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,879
Speaker 4: I don't they should not let up. If if now

762
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 4: affordability and health care is where we want people to

763
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 4: be thinking and deciding when it comes to elections, then

764
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 4: then then where to your point, Angela, where the strategy

765
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 4: must not fail, us must not fail Democrats. Is in

766
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,040
Speaker 4: the time between now and the time between the next

767
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 4: election of when it is really pivotal to make the

768
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:46,760
Speaker 4: decision of whether or not we're about to keep charging

769
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 4: forward with this man or bring his administration to a

770
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 4: pretty much halts. That's what's on the ballot in the

771
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:57,760
Speaker 4: in the mid terms, and unfortunately, my level of expect

772
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 4: but my level of what I expect the mcare it

773
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 4: is like at the body.

774
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 1: I know, I know we we have to close this out,

775
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,720
Speaker 1: but I have a quick, for real wrap around, especially

776
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 1: in tip way in here too if you want, but

777
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: the car because.

778
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,320
Speaker 3: You are what's the question, I'm.

779
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:21,799
Speaker 1: Sorry, because you guys are formerly elected officials. I want

780
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:23,720
Speaker 1: to know if you were in the United States Senate

781
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: today or really yesterday, in the day prior, where what

782
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:28,839
Speaker 1: would you have been?

783
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 2: Don't answer what.

784
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:31,320
Speaker 1: Would you have been? What would you have been thinking

785
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 1: in the caucus meetings? And then how would that thought,

786
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: that strategy, that idea have translated to the Senate floor?

787
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 2: How would you have voted?

788
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 3: So that's a that's not a rapid round answer. I

789
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,879
Speaker 3: got to I'm going to do my Tiffany cross right here.

790
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 3: Let me and then you know what Tiffany, lean up

791
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 3: into the camera. Let me do my let me, let

792
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 3: me do some context for the people. So I, in

793
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 3: all likelihood, I would have voted to reopen government on

794
00:39:55,400 --> 00:40:00,360
Speaker 3: the condition, on the condition that we message around the why,

795
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 3: because I am in the streets enough to see the

796
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 3: pain that this shut down is causing, and I've seen

797
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 3: it at the airports, and I know people aren't getting

798
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 3: paid and that gives me consternation. But the only way

799
00:40:13,040 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 3: that I wouldn't have done it in the middle of

800
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 3: the night. The only way I would have done it

801
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:17,760
Speaker 3: is if I would have been able to either myself

802
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 3: clearly articulate the why, or as a caucus we clearly

803
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 3: articulate the why. That would be the only way that

804
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 3: I would do it. I would have.

805
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 4: And the caucus probably argued more for politicos will get this,

806
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 4: but what about the everyday people who we asked to sacrifice.

807
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 4: They won't get this, They won't understand the why, and

808
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,799
Speaker 4: they will likely be let down by the fact that

809
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,800
Speaker 4: last Tuesday they thought they voted for change around the

810
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 4: country and this looks like the same old, same old.

811
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 4: I would not have voted to open the government. What

812
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 4: I would have done and I would have done this

813
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,360
Speaker 4: from the start is I would have identified the the

814
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 4: the most vulnerable eight Republicans. I could the most vulnerable

815
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 4: in the US Senate to go to places where you know,

816
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 4: maybe there were split tickets, right they voted a Democratic governor,

817
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 4: maybe a Republican president, whatever, But those eight seats would

818
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 4: have those senators would have been under duress. Their communities

819
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:22,919
Speaker 4: would have responded so much because we would have been

820
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 4: dialing ads into there. We would have had a volunteer

821
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 4: operation that was making calls into homes.

822
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:29,359
Speaker 3: We would have it.

823
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,360
Speaker 4: Won't be astro turf. It may have began as astro

824
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 4: turf because it would have come out of the beltwagh,

825
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 4: but it would have been serious activation in those places.

826
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 4: So those senators would have had no choice. I have

827
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 4: been on plenty of votes, and the ones that have

828
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,200
Speaker 4: caused me the greatest stomach pain, or when the calls

829
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 4: and the emails and the letters to the editors start

830
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,160
Speaker 4: to flood, and hell, it may have been from the

831
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 4: same five hundred people. I wouldn't have known. It would

832
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 4: have felt like the whole world had collapsed on my shoulders.

833
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 4: And it would have it would have would it would

834
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 4: have cost me all my loyalties to make sure that

835
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 4: what I was in line for was to be on

836
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 4: the right side of this issue. And I think from

837
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 4: a strategic standpoint that may have been the failure is

838
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 4: you ain't you know how we say, you're on television,

839
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,280
Speaker 4: You're not talking to the person I'm right directly across

840
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,359
Speaker 4: from talking to people who are through that lens. That's

841
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 4: what we're not talking to our colleagues up here. Yes,

842
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 4: the negotiation requires an action from them, but we're talking

843
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 4: past them. We are talking to the American people, and

844
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 4: we're talking to these people in these eight particular places

845
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 4: that their folks are right now trying to do a

846
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 4: shuck and drive. They're trying to steal, they're you know,

847
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 4: they're taking your livelihood away right now in public daylight,

848
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 4: and we got to go get them. And I would

849
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,399
Speaker 4: have sick them on them, right as they said with Doug, sick,

850
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,719
Speaker 4: sick them, sick the people on them. And I think

851
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 4: they failed by trying to talk to all of them.

852
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 4: They failed to talk to eight of them. And that's

853
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 4: what we needed.

854
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:51,720
Speaker 3: Tiff.

855
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 1: You know, Andrew just said that they that they that

856
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: they would have done a shuck and drive.

857
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 2: I signed us up for that?

858
00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 1: That sound like no, it sounded like I could drive

859
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 1: by shoot, So sign me and no, I'm not for that.

860
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 2: Sign us up for that, not enough for.

861
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 1: That, not literally but figuratively, because I think right writing

862
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:09,840
Speaker 1: on the.

863
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 2: Food, literally, I can't even get.

864
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 3: Much. I'm gonna be in an interrogation room snitching. All they

865
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 3: got to do is feed me.

866
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 1: I'm telling them, you don't take much for you, but

867
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: the thing that give.

868
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 3: Me, give me some chicken Chick fil A.

869
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 2: I'm trying. I'm trying my best.

870
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:37,879
Speaker 1: Well, all I was trying to say was I think

871
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: I believe and Tip, maybe I'm not gonna speak for you,

872
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 1: but I believe we would have been on the side

873
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 1: of the caucus that would have us stand up mutual

874
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: aid efforts and support for the people on the front line,

875
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,120
Speaker 1: and then we can make a decision about whether or

876
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: not the government it can reopen. Hopefully we can hold out,

877
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 1: but you can't have people holding out and suffering. Then

878
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 1: you're just making them pick their poison. And that ain't

879
00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 1: never right. Know, nobody knows, Okay, everybody. We're gonna get

880
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 1: to that listener question later on in this episode. But

881
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 1: right now it is our pleasure and privilege to welcome

882
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:20,760
Speaker 1: to Native lampod Ari Berman, an incredible journalist and author,

883
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:24,720
Speaker 1: to talk to us about Donald Trump rigging the twenty

884
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: six elections and perhaps the presidential as well.

885
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 2: Ari.

886
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 1: Before we bring you on, I just want to roll

887
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 1: this clip from Steve Bannon, and.

888
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 7: I will tell you right now, as God is my witness,

889
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:41,160
Speaker 7: if we lose the midterms and we lose twenty twenty eight,

890
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 7: some in this room are going to prison, myself included.

891
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:46,800
Speaker 3: They're not going to stop.

892
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 7: They're getting more and more and more radical, and we

893
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:53,360
Speaker 7: have to counter that. And what do we have to

894
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 7: counter it with. We have to counter it with more action,

895
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 7: more intense action, more urgency. We're burning daylight if you

896
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 7: look across every aspect of this. We have to codify

897
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,359
Speaker 7: what President Trump has done by executive order.

898
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 1: So we wanted to get into this first, Ari, because

899
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 1: if you let Steve Bannon tell it, he's making it

900
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 1: seem like where are the riggers? We're gonna be the

901
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 1: one who are gonna rig the twenty twenty six elections,

902
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:21,359
Speaker 1: and they're gonna go to jail because I don't know,

903
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:26,160
Speaker 1: maybe the January sixth insurrectionist never did and got parton,

904
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 1: So I wanted.

905
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 2: To just bring you on.

906
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:31,840
Speaker 1: Are you have always been doing incredible work around the

907
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 1: voting right space, voter suppression, this piece that you wrote

908
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 1: for Mother Jones recently on Project twenty twenty six Trump's

909
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 1: plan to rig the next election. Would love to talk

910
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 1: to you about how you're seeing this, particularly after the

911
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 1: Partons this week, so we'll talk about the Partons as well.

912
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 8: Yeah, thanks so much guys for having me on. Really

913
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 8: a pleasure to be here. And you notice how Steve

914
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 8: Bannon has a new jacket, another jacket on every time,

915
00:45:57,760 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 8: like he used to have three layers and now it

916
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 8: seems like is more five every time he talks if

917
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 8: he's Trump is a gimmick, and didn't he already go

918
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 8: to prison? So he's saying we're going to go to prison,

919
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 8: but I think he's already been there, so he must

920
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 8: be worried about a return trip. But I think what

921
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:21,720
Speaker 8: I learned from twenty twenty and just the crazy attempt

922
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 8: to try to steal the election was we have to

923
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,320
Speaker 8: take these people seriously. I think a lot of people

924
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,439
Speaker 8: thought when they started throwing on all these schemes that

925
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,920
Speaker 8: like Originally they were joking and it wasn't going to happen,

926
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 8: and then momentum just started building. And so when they

927
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:37,879
Speaker 8: say they're going to do these kind of things, when

928
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,799
Speaker 8: they say they're going to seize voting machines, or they're

929
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 8: going to put ice at the polls, or they're going

930
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:47,280
Speaker 8: to declare a national emergency over elections to give Trump

931
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 8: more power, I think we have to take all of

932
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:53,839
Speaker 8: these things seriously. And what's different about Trump's second term

933
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 8: compared to his first term is he has figured out

934
00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 8: how to use the full power of the federal government

935
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 8: to his advantage. And they're much more open about what

936
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 8: their plan is. They're not trying to hide their authoritarianism anymore.

937
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 8: It's right out in the open, and they're basically saying,

938
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,319
Speaker 8: we know we're going to lose this election if we

939
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,439
Speaker 8: don't rig it in our favor. That's why he's going

940
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:16,879
Speaker 8: all out to jerry Mander and doing all these other things.

941
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:19,320
Speaker 8: So I think the plan is really as opposed to

942
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 8: being done in the shadows, it's really out in the

943
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,120
Speaker 8: open in terms of what they're planning to do. Now,

944
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 8: the question is is it going to work? And are

945
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 8: people going to be able to stop it.

946
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 5: Well, we're seeing this week Ari, and I want to

947
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 5: echo Angeline saying, I love your beat you covering voting

948
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:38,399
Speaker 5: rights from Mother Jones, and please people subscribe read the piece.

949
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 5: Journalism costs money, so please support journalism. But we saw

950
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 5: this week that Donald Trump part in dozens of people

951
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 5: allegedly tie to overturning or attempting to overturn the twenty

952
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 5: twenty election. He pardoned Ed Martin, a Justice Department attorney

953
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 5: Jenna Ellis. Of course, Giuliani, Mark Meadows, his former chief

954
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:00,839
Speaker 5: of staff. Now this was federal gardens. Of course, there

955
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 5: are prosecutors in Nevada, Georgia, Wisconsin, Arizona, and I think

956
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:05,839
Speaker 5: another state I can't remember off the top of my head.

957
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:08,439
Speaker 5: So he can't pardon those state selections. But I don't

958
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 5: think enough people really understand the concept of how he's

959
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:15,280
Speaker 5: consolidated power to the executive branch. In March of this year,

960
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 5: he issued an executive order that essentially there are three

961
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 5: key pieces to this that I find very concerning, and

962
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 5: I want to get your thoughts on them. The three components. First,

963
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 5: there's this show your papers type initiative where you would

964
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 5: have to show a passport or something similar to show

965
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 5: that you're registered to vote using a federal voter registration form.

966
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:38,360
Speaker 2: That's very scary.

967
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 5: Second, he attempts to make a bipartisan commission very partisan,

968
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 5: the EAC, which oversees voting equipment, and he wants to

969
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 5: access these voting machines, which obviously that is a very

970
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:02,359
Speaker 5: pronounced risk. It can also push states to do hand

971
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,759
Speaker 5: counting ballots, which is error prone as we know, it

972
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 5: can cause delays, which I think is very intentional. Third,

973
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,399
Speaker 5: this is the most frightening of all these frightening components.

974
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,880
Speaker 5: He's calling for DOZE, this made up department and the

975
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 5: Department of Homeland Security, led by the puppy killer Christy Nome,

976
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 5: to obtain state voter files and other records kept by

977
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:29,319
Speaker 5: election officials. That's including voterless maintenance records. This is a

978
00:49:29,440 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 5: very frightening thing. Now, you remember what happened when they

979
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 5: gave DOZE access to the NROLB, the National Relations Board system.

980
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:41,800
Speaker 5: We immediately saw Russian IP addresses making several attempts to

981
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,440
Speaker 5: use to access that database. So putting this in the

982
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 5: hands of Elon Musk is very scary. So when you

983
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 5: look at the collection of what he's done already. I'm

984
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 5: curious your thoughts on how we as regular people, what

985
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:55,799
Speaker 5: we should be doing to combat that, and what do

986
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 5: you think the next steps are in this very Zirphonian,

987
00:49:59,000 --> 00:49:59,760
Speaker 5: scary process.

988
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:03,840
Speaker 8: Yeah, those are all really good questions, Tiffany. I mean,

989
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 8: I think the first thing is just to go back

990
00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:08,080
Speaker 8: to what you said about the pardons. People are looking

991
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 8: at it as a get at a jail free card

992
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 8: for what happened in twenty twenty. But it's not just

993
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 8: that it's a get out of jail free card for

994
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 8: future election stealing, because basically the message is if you

995
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 8: try to steal the next election through violence and force

996
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,439
Speaker 8: and intimidation and illegality, we're going to have your back

997
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:28,839
Speaker 8: here too. So the pardons aren't just backwards looking, which

998
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:31,880
Speaker 8: I think that's how it's been reported. They're forward looking

999
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,279
Speaker 8: as well. They're trying to send a signal to all

1000
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 8: the insurrectionists who now are off the hook, basically absent

1001
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 8: state courts, that they can do the same kind of

1002
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 8: thing in twenty twenty six or twenty twenty eight without

1003
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 8: any kind of accountability. Now again, we'll see if that

1004
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 8: holds up. But that's clearly why he's doing it now,

1005
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 8: to send a signal that this kind of behavior can

1006
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:56,360
Speaker 8: happen in future elections. Now on to your points about

1007
00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 8: the executive order. These were all really good points. First off,

1008
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 8: on proof of citizenship to register to vote, this is

1009
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 8: a real misconception because people say, oh, it's just voter ID.

1010
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 8: It's not voter ID. People carry around their driver's license

1011
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 8: with them most places. People do not carry a passport

1012
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 8: or a birth certificate around with them when they register

1013
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 8: to vote in their day to day lives, and a

1014
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:20,920
Speaker 8: lot of people don't have those documents to begin with.

1015
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:23,759
Speaker 8: And if you don't have those documents, like a birth certificate,

1016
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 8: it can be very difficult, if not impossible, to obtain them.

1017
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,240
Speaker 8: And so you guys know very well there are people

1018
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:32,880
Speaker 8: that were born in the Jim Crow South, couldn't go

1019
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:35,359
Speaker 8: to a hospital, never got a birth certificate they could

1020
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 8: use in the kind of functional way we think about it.

1021
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 8: So it's much more draconian than voter i D. A

1022
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:42,600
Speaker 8: lot more people don't have, and a lot more people

1023
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:44,440
Speaker 8: will fall through the cracks if it's required. The good

1024
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 8: news is that part of the law at least has

1025
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 8: been blocked by a federal court. Now they're still going

1026
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:50,720
Speaker 8: to appeal it, but for now it's blocked in court.

1027
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 8: The second thing is what you said about the EAC,

1028
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,240
Speaker 8: which is kind of this obscure body that was created

1029
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:59,399
Speaker 8: after the two thousand election fiasco in Florida to try

1030
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 8: to help stay It's run their elections more smoothly. It's

1031
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 8: not really functioning that way. And you mentioned the voting machines.

1032
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:07,319
Speaker 8: This is really important. Basically, what Trump said in his

1033
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 8: executive order from March was that essentially all the current

1034
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:15,359
Speaker 8: voting machines are not certified anymore, and that they need

1035
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 8: to be certified based on technology that doesn't actually exist

1036
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:21,280
Speaker 8: on the market right now. And this is important because

1037
00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 8: this could be a pretext to Trump doing things like

1038
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:27,240
Speaker 8: you wanted to do in twenty twenty, seizing the voting machines,

1039
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 8: saying the elections were rigged, saying that we didn't vote

1040
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 8: on proper voting machines and therefore we have to do X,

1041
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 8: Y and Z to try to overturn the election. At

1042
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,919
Speaker 8: the same time that people in his administration, the Justice

1043
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 8: Department are going around asking states, can we access your

1044
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:45,279
Speaker 8: voting equipment From twenty twenty, which is totally unprecedented for

1045
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:49,480
Speaker 8: anyone from the federal government trying to do. Remind me

1046
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:50,600
Speaker 8: what the third question.

1047
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 5: Was, that's about essentially putting state election sensitive data in

1048
00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 5: the doze dose.

1049
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 8: Yes, yeah, yeah, So they're really actively trying to do this.

1050
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 3: Now.

1051
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 8: Remember it was a huge deal when Trump, Remember he

1052
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:08,360
Speaker 8: lied and said that he lost the popular vote in

1053
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:10,880
Speaker 8: twenty sixteen because three million people voted illegally, and then

1054
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 8: he had this whole quote unuote Election Integrity Commission, and

1055
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 8: they asked for voter file data from all fifty states

1056
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:21,439
Speaker 8: and they were rebuked overwhelmingly. The Mississippi Secretary of State

1057
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:24,279
Speaker 8: famously told the vice chair, Chris Koboc to go jump

1058
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:27,279
Speaker 8: in the Gulf of Mexico back when Republicans still called

1059
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 8: it that. And now they're basically trying to do the

1060
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 8: same thing through the Justice Department, but it's getting far

1061
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 8: less attention. So they're trying to get voter data from

1062
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:38,359
Speaker 8: all fifty states so they can run them through these

1063
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 8: immigration databases that are not designed for this purpose, so

1064
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:44,399
Speaker 8: they can get a lot of false matches. In basics, say,

1065
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:46,359
Speaker 8: we have found the fraud, we have found the non

1066
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 8: citizen voting that Trump said exists, and therefore we can

1067
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:52,879
Speaker 8: call on states to enact of citizenship laws, we can

1068
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 8: remove people from the roles, we can file new lawsuits,

1069
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:58,319
Speaker 8: all of those things. And this is happening, unlike in

1070
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 8: Trump's first term, very much under the radar. The Justice

1071
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:04,440
Speaker 8: Department's already sued eight states, seven of which are run

1072
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:06,919
Speaker 8: by Democrats, trying to get this kind of data.

1073
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:07,799
Speaker 3: So this is something that.

1074
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:10,840
Speaker 8: I'm still actively reporting on that I'm very concerned about

1075
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:13,799
Speaker 8: because it's going to seem very technical, it's going to

1076
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:16,400
Speaker 8: seem very bureaucratic, and then all of a sudden, you're

1077
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:19,359
Speaker 8: going to see these insane headlines saying that all these

1078
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:22,920
Speaker 8: people illegally voted, and then Trump and the whole MAGA

1079
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 8: universe are going to go nuclear around this evidence. And

1080
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 8: so I'm just saying, prepare for this to happen, because

1081
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:30,239
Speaker 8: they're laying the groundwork right now for them to do.

1082
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 4: So I'm glad you went there. I was thinking about

1083
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:37,640
Speaker 4: their first administration attempt to get that data, and I

1084
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 4: do remember feeling hopeful by the number of secretaries of

1085
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:44,440
Speaker 4: states and governors who stood up and said no way.

1086
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:46,360
Speaker 4: You know, one of the things that I've said on

1087
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 4: this show when we talked about elections being stolen that

1088
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:52,200
Speaker 4: kind of thing was I've always fallen back on or

1089
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:54,799
Speaker 4: relied on the fact that, you know, our elections are

1090
00:54:54,880 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 4: probably one of the most decentralized structures of structure in

1091
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 4: the United States, meaning the power exists at almost such

1092
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 4: a local level, from your county supervisors of elections, you know,

1093
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:09,920
Speaker 4: up through the ranks of the you know, and through

1094
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 4: the states. And that the law I believe should come

1095
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:17,160
Speaker 4: down on the side of the states every single time

1096
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 4: when when in contradiction with the federal government over the

1097
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 4: way in which it runs its elections. That being said,

1098
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 4: I'm curious if the president is this time able because

1099
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 4: he has figured out ways and is manipulating the powers

1100
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,560
Speaker 4: of the presidency, declaring emergencies and so on and so forth,

1101
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 4: and is able to secure voting equipment, uh from from

1102
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:43,240
Speaker 4: from states. For instance, we know he wanted to direct

1103
00:55:43,239 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 4: the military to go in and seize the actual voting

1104
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:51,439
Speaker 4: machines and and ballots. I'm if you were forecasting out

1105
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 4: assuming he were able to successfully uh be allowed to

1106
00:55:55,800 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 4: seize the voting equipment or voting data. Those are two

1107
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:04,719
Speaker 4: separate voting equipment very specifically, or ballots from states. Are

1108
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 4: there states that you would list as sort of flag,

1109
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:12,960
Speaker 4: you know, burning red, as in if they were able

1110
00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:15,239
Speaker 4: to corrupt this system, that's the you know, that's the

1111
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 4: kid in kaboodle. Are the states that ought to be

1112
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 4: perking up thinking about and I'm very specifically thinking about

1113
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:26,279
Speaker 4: states that might go D or R or are reliably

1114
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 4: D that may or may not have democratic secretives the

1115
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 4: states or democratic governors defend back against that kind of

1116
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 4: federal attack.

1117
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:35,280
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1118
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:37,440
Speaker 8: Well, I mean, Andrew, I can think of one state

1119
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:43,800
Speaker 8: that you're familiar with, the state of Florida that I

1120
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 8: think would love nothing else but to help Trump accomplish

1121
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 8: this kind of saying a thing, a state that is

1122
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 8: already criminalized voting in so many different ways that in

1123
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 8: many ways was a precursor to a lot of what

1124
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 8: Trump is trying to do, because, I mean, they gave

1125
00:56:57,719 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 8: people the right to vote, and then they basically said

1126
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 8: we're going to turn you into criminals simply for exercising

1127
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:05,319
Speaker 8: your right to vote, and did so in a very

1128
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:08,400
Speaker 8: intimidating way. So I think that you're right that Trump

1129
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 8: is going to run into a lot of resistance in

1130
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:13,439
Speaker 8: terms of his plan to try to just take over

1131
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 8: the election system, because there's built in protections. The courts

1132
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:20,120
Speaker 8: have said that he doesn't have the power to tell

1133
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:22,400
Speaker 8: Congress and the states how to run their elections. There

1134
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 8: are election officials in both parties that have pushed back

1135
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 8: against these efforts. As far as I'm aware, only two

1136
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 8: states so far, Wyoming in Indiana, have willingly given their

1137
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:34,680
Speaker 8: voter files to the Justice Department. So it's a nerving

1138
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:37,480
Speaker 8: that that's happened, But it hasn't been like all of

1139
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:39,919
Speaker 8: the red states have come forward and say, we want

1140
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:40,600
Speaker 8: to do this.

1141
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 3: To give this to you.

1142
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 8: Similarly, when they tried to ask for voting equipment in Missouri,

1143
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 8: a very red state in rural counties, they were told no,

1144
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:52,760
Speaker 8: that's not how it works. So I am hopeful that

1145
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:56,640
Speaker 8: the coalitions that stood up to defend democracy in twenty

1146
00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 8: twenty still exist in some form or other, in a

1147
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 8: bypl artisan or nonpartisan way. But I am concerned about

1148
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 8: the pressure here that if Trump just kind of grounds

1149
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:11,080
Speaker 8: people down. So even if they say no once, they

1150
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 8: say no once, they say no twice. We saw those

1151
00:58:12,800 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 8: are the jerrymandering right. When he wanted states to start jerrymandering.

1152
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:21,240
Speaker 8: Republicans didn't actually want to do it. Texas Republicans didn't

1153
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:23,360
Speaker 8: want to do it. Missouri republicans didn't want to do it.

1154
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 8: North Carolina Republicans may have wanted to do it a

1155
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:28,280
Speaker 8: little bit more. But the point is is that eventually

1156
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:32,120
Speaker 8: they complied. And so the question is are they going

1157
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:34,479
Speaker 8: to comply in the same kind of way or will

1158
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:38,440
Speaker 8: this be beyond the pale. The reason for Hope Andrew

1159
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:42,160
Speaker 8: is that they may say, if we do it now,

1160
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 8: it's going to set a precedent, and we may not

1161
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 8: want this being weaponized against us in the other direction.

1162
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:49,600
Speaker 3: Right.

1163
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:52,680
Speaker 8: And the thing about Trump is what's going to happen

1164
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:55,720
Speaker 8: is as he becomes more popular, he is going to

1165
00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:59,200
Speaker 8: become more authoritarian, but he will be a less less

1166
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:04,200
Speaker 8: effective authoritarian the more unpopular he becomes, meaning that if

1167
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 8: people see him as a lamb duck, as if people

1168
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 8: see and we know that the Republicans are going to

1169
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 8: do the right thing based on principle, right, but they

1170
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:14,680
Speaker 8: might do the right thing based on politics, which is

1171
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:16,800
Speaker 8: they want to save their own ass. And so if

1172
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 8: they start to see that becoming a reality, they may say,

1173
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 8: we're not going to go along with some of the

1174
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:25,840
Speaker 8: more extreme things that he's trying to.

1175
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:26,480
Speaker 3: Ask us to do.

1176
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:31,920
Speaker 1: I want to get to get back to this pardon piece.

1177
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:37,080
Speaker 1: So on November ninth, Ed Martin tweeted out this laundry

1178
00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:41,959
Speaker 1: list of seventy seven individuals that Donald Trump wanted to pardon.

1179
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 1: As you all know, Ed Martin serves as the pardon

1180
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:45,920
Speaker 1: attorney for the Department of Justice.

1181
00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 2: So he's saying, this is a.

1182
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 1: Very important parton list of the twenty twenty electors. We

1183
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:55,520
Speaker 1: call them the fake electors. As tip as reference earlier,

1184
00:59:56,280 --> 01:00:00,400
Speaker 1: he listed particularly Georgia and Michigan fake elector in this

1185
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:05,920
Speaker 1: laundry list. What I find fascinating ari is this list

1186
01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 1: that again Ed Martin puts out November ninth. The last

1187
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 1: time the DJ Clemency and Pardon website was a web

1188
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:19,160
Speaker 1: page was updated was on November tenth, But somehow they

1189
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:21,160
Speaker 1: didn't put this up. It just so happens to be

1190
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:24,480
Speaker 1: while we're in a government shut down, And I think

1191
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:27,800
Speaker 1: what is disheartening is the way in which they move.

1192
01:00:27,920 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 1: They will spread certain messages to their base, but they

1193
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:36,200
Speaker 1: don't move necessarily in great transparency. And so when I

1194
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:38,560
Speaker 1: think back to your piece and some of the different

1195
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:41,080
Speaker 1: flags that you kind of raised that would be the

1196
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:44,840
Speaker 1: ways that Donald Trump would rig a midterm election in

1197
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:47,640
Speaker 1: his and the administration and the people who support him,

1198
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 1: the folks who could have told him, no, we're not

1199
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:52,280
Speaker 1: going to do this, but fold him. Every time we're

1200
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:54,840
Speaker 1: talking about folding to day. It's not just Democrats who

1201
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:58,320
Speaker 1: follow y'all right, These Republicans haven't launched much of an

1202
01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:02,560
Speaker 1: opposition to stay Donald Trump's authoritarianism. So when you talk

1203
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 1: about the ways in which he's using ice in federal

1204
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:09,000
Speaker 1: law enforcement to flood the streets, the ways in which

1205
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 1: they would undermine the integrity of elections, the ways in

1206
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:17,240
Speaker 1: which they've weaponized the Department of Justice against his political opponents,

1207
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:21,680
Speaker 1: even naming Barack Obama as of late, I think he

1208
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:25,080
Speaker 1: would be probably not able to be prosecuted given the

1209
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 1: criminal immunity now that the Supreme Court has.

1210
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 2: Given to presidents. But I just want to hear from

1211
01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 2: you on this.

1212
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 1: How do you think these partons also go to support

1213
01:01:35,920 --> 01:01:38,120
Speaker 1: the piece that you put out around Project twenty twenty

1214
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:40,040
Speaker 1: six and Trump bringing elections.

1215
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 8: Well, I think it just sends a signal to people

1216
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:45,120
Speaker 8: that they can get away with this kind of election rigging,

1217
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:48,720
Speaker 8: that if they try to do it again, they won't

1218
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 8: face any consequences for their kind of actions, and therefore

1219
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 8: it's going to embolden them to try to do some

1220
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:57,680
Speaker 8: of these more extraordinary themes. You know, I started reporting

1221
01:01:57,720 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 8: this article over the summer, and I was asking people

1222
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:05,560
Speaker 8: hypothetical questions, what could the president do? These hypotheticals became

1223
01:02:05,640 --> 01:02:09,760
Speaker 8: much less hypothetical over time when Trumps started sending the

1224
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:13,440
Speaker 8: National Guard to places not just California, but started sending

1225
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 8: them to DC and Chicago and other places, and basically

1226
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 8: started focusing only on democratic cities and urban areas in

1227
01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:24,920
Speaker 8: terms of where he would send troops. Then when the

1228
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:28,280
Speaker 8: Supreme Court said ice could engage in racial profiling, and

1229
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:30,560
Speaker 8: then you had people like Steve benn And say we're

1230
01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:33,840
Speaker 8: going to have ice at the polls. So these kind

1231
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:38,240
Speaker 8: of things are not theoretical anymore. And it's very possible,

1232
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 8: if not likely, you're going to have the military engage

1233
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 8: in some kind of election activity that has never happened

1234
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:47,000
Speaker 8: before in American history. That you could have ice raids

1235
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:50,320
Speaker 8: in democratic neighborhoods, you could have ice at the polls.

1236
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 8: I'm not saying any of the stuff will be legal,

1237
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:54,760
Speaker 8: but I think they're going to try to explore these

1238
01:02:54,800 --> 01:02:56,560
Speaker 8: kind of things. They were going to try to say,

1239
01:02:57,120 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 8: for example, that they want to see the voting machines.

1240
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:03,800
Speaker 8: The last part of my piece was about just refusing

1241
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 8: to swear in people all together. What we saw that

1242
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:09,160
Speaker 8: happen too. I mean, we've never seen a situation where

1243
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:11,960
Speaker 8: someone has had to sit this long to be sworn in,

1244
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:13,600
Speaker 8: and people saying, why do they care? Are they just

1245
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:15,720
Speaker 8: worried about the Epstein files? And to me, it wasn't

1246
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:19,040
Speaker 8: just about Epstein. It was about the fact that they

1247
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:23,240
Speaker 8: are laying the groundwork for if the House is contested,

1248
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:26,120
Speaker 8: if it's within a seat or two, for example, and

1249
01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:29,680
Speaker 8: there is a member from California or another state where

1250
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:32,600
Speaker 8: Trump alleges fraud, they're going to try to say, we

1251
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:35,280
Speaker 8: don't have to sit this person so that Mike Johnson

1252
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 8: can remain Speaker of the House. Now, again, we don't

1253
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:39,120
Speaker 8: know if they're going to get away with it, but

1254
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:42,160
Speaker 8: they're laying out the groundwork to do so right now,

1255
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:45,200
Speaker 8: and so all of these things that might have been hypotheticals,

1256
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:48,400
Speaker 8: they're becoming very real. And I think that's why we

1257
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:50,400
Speaker 8: all need to really pay attention to what's going on

1258
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:52,080
Speaker 8: as it happens in real time.

1259
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:55,160
Speaker 3: Let me ask you this question, how do we talk

1260
01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:59,400
Speaker 3: about this without depressing voter turnout? Yeah, that's a really

1261
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:00,400
Speaker 3: good question.

1262
01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:05,520
Speaker 8: I mean you've thought about that probably more than I have.

1263
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:09,240
Speaker 8: I mean, I think you you. I think you have

1264
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:14,040
Speaker 8: to activate people about the threats that they face, but

1265
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:16,960
Speaker 8: I think you also have to say that people can

1266
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:20,400
Speaker 8: overcome them, people can do something about them, and that

1267
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 8: you're raising awareness not to scare people, but to try

1268
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:27,040
Speaker 8: to activate them. And that's what That's what I said earlier,

1269
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:31,720
Speaker 8: which is that as Trump becomes more unpopular, he will

1270
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:35,840
Speaker 8: become more authoritarian, but his authoritarianism will be easier to

1271
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:38,880
Speaker 8: defeat because he's more unpopular. So I do think that

1272
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:43,920
Speaker 8: the elections Tuesday send a signal that Trump can be defeated,

1273
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:46,720
Speaker 8: that Trump is can be defeated. I also think it

1274
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:50,320
Speaker 8: sends a signal that there were some problematic aspects to

1275
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:53,600
Speaker 8: the voting. Bomb threats called into polling places, for example,

1276
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:57,440
Speaker 8: but by and large voting went smoothly. And so I

1277
01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:01,720
Speaker 8: think that can be something that you can And I

1278
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:04,240
Speaker 8: think it goes back to the message and at the

1279
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:07,120
Speaker 8: protests around the country, which is that the president doesn't

1280
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:09,920
Speaker 8: have the power of a king, that he might want

1281
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:12,800
Speaker 8: to do all of these things, but that he doesn't

1282
01:05:12,840 --> 01:05:16,040
Speaker 8: actually have the power to do so, and that the

1283
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:19,640
Speaker 8: way to prevent him from doing these kind of things

1284
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 8: is to check his power. So I would argue it's

1285
01:05:23,080 --> 01:05:25,840
Speaker 8: going to be much harder for Trump to try to

1286
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:28,440
Speaker 8: steal the election in twenty twenty eight, either for himself

1287
01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:32,160
Speaker 8: or forever his successor might be. If there's a democratic house,

1288
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:34,920
Speaker 8: then if there isn't right because if Trump is constantly

1289
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:36,720
Speaker 8: looking over his shoulder, if he knows that there's some

1290
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:40,040
Speaker 8: level of accountability coming, then he's going to be less

1291
01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:42,760
Speaker 8: likely to try to pull off these schemes than if

1292
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:46,400
Speaker 8: the government stacked with his enablers. But I also think Bakari,

1293
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 8: I mean, to just ignore it doesn't seem like the

1294
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:54,640
Speaker 8: answer either, because if he's going to do these things regardless,

1295
01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:58,360
Speaker 8: then I feel like you have an obligation to fight him.

1296
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:01,680
Speaker 8: And you look at the jerrymanderin battles for example. I mean,

1297
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:05,680
Speaker 8: Democrats could have just said, like the we're like the

1298
01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:08,600
Speaker 8: elect we're completely screwed, Like they're just going to go

1299
01:06:08,680 --> 01:06:11,040
Speaker 8: state by state by state and gerrymander and that's what

1300
01:06:11,080 --> 01:06:14,720
Speaker 8: they did initially, and then California said, no, no, we're gonna

1301
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:18,120
Speaker 8: come up with something creative to try to check them.

1302
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:20,640
Speaker 8: And then once California came up with something creative, Virginia

1303
01:06:20,720 --> 01:06:22,479
Speaker 8: started saying, well, we're going to come up with something

1304
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:24,760
Speaker 8: creative too to try to do something about it. And

1305
01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:27,840
Speaker 8: now the gerrymandering wars, in which the GOP won the

1306
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 8: first three or four battles, is looking much more like

1307
01:06:30,680 --> 01:06:33,720
Speaker 8: a draw than an outright victory potentially. And so I

1308
01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:36,120
Speaker 8: think that's the example of how you can take something

1309
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:40,120
Speaker 8: that ultimately is scary to people, can demobilize people, but

1310
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:43,040
Speaker 8: then use it to try to activate them to realize

1311
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:45,080
Speaker 8: that the right to vote is still worth fighting for.

1312
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:49,560
Speaker 4: I just doubled down on that point. I think it's

1313
01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:55,800
Speaker 4: so important we oftentimes take away the brilliance of everyday

1314
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:59,560
Speaker 4: American people to not be able to balance multiple things

1315
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:02,680
Speaker 4: at one time. And my fear is is that when

1316
01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:05,320
Speaker 4: we don't bring these things out into the sunlight, right

1317
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:10,880
Speaker 4: into transparency, people end up getting stunned by what they

1318
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:13,760
Speaker 4: end up walking into. And when they're stunned or they're

1319
01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:18,040
Speaker 4: shock they tend to recess, not go headstrong through it,

1320
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:20,840
Speaker 4: and so I think we talk about it as often,

1321
01:07:21,000 --> 01:07:25,200
Speaker 4: as frequently and as empowering as we can so to

1322
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:28,400
Speaker 4: prevent people from showing up at a poll and seeing

1323
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:31,080
Speaker 4: the National Guard and deciding, oh no, back up, reverse,

1324
01:07:31,160 --> 01:07:32,720
Speaker 4: I'm out of here. I don't know what this about,

1325
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:35,400
Speaker 4: but I'm leaving. It's best we tell them what to

1326
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:38,600
Speaker 4: expect so they persist, hopefully in charge right through it

1327
01:07:39,120 --> 01:07:43,680
Speaker 4: and full command of what their rights are to vote

1328
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:47,320
Speaker 4: and to win. I am sorry, Angela, you got it.

1329
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:49,880
Speaker 1: No, I just wanted to say, Ari, thank you so

1330
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:53,160
Speaker 1: much for joining us. Ari Berman, you are incredible. We

1331
01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:55,280
Speaker 1: are so grateful to have you and your brilliance on

1332
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 1: Native Lampod. We hope this will not be the last

1333
01:07:58,080 --> 01:08:00,400
Speaker 1: time you join us, but certainly are going to be

1334
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:02,680
Speaker 1: voting rights fights on every side, and we would have

1335
01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:04,840
Speaker 1: no other person that we'd rather be in that battle

1336
01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:05,240
Speaker 1: within you.

1337
01:08:05,320 --> 01:08:06,440
Speaker 2: So thank you so much for being here.

1338
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:09,720
Speaker 3: Great to talk to you. Welcome well, brother, welcome home.

1339
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:14,560
Speaker 2: All right?

1340
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:19,120
Speaker 3: Who cares about truth? When the last morning's seen it?

1341
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:23,559
Speaker 1: All right, everybody, it is that time of the show

1342
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:26,000
Speaker 1: where we are getting to action. These are our calls

1343
01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:28,519
Speaker 1: to action, and this time, because we don't want to

1344
01:08:28,800 --> 01:08:31,080
Speaker 1: spend too much time asking you all to come in,

1345
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:33,720
Speaker 1: send your videos, send us your thoughts and questions. We

1346
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:35,559
Speaker 1: are going to yield some of our calls to action

1347
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:37,479
Speaker 1: time to viewer questions.

1348
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:38,240
Speaker 2: Let's get started.

1349
01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:44,200
Speaker 9: Podcast gave me a headache. Steve stephen A Lenard is

1350
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:48,120
Speaker 9: a provocateur? Is that menstrel and all he did was

1351
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:52,320
Speaker 9: ask you questions. He didn't add anything in the conversation.

1352
01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 9: How do we get these black men to realize that

1353
01:08:56,520 --> 01:08:59,719
Speaker 9: black women, this is why we're dying young. They're expecting

1354
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:03,920
Speaker 9: person to do everything and to talk to everybody. Our

1355
01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:08,559
Speaker 9: community is not a monolith and we have never been

1356
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:13,080
Speaker 9: this kumbaya loving thing where the women all talk to

1357
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:17,840
Speaker 9: everyone and go on everyone's podcast. Now do you how

1358
01:09:17,840 --> 01:09:22,519
Speaker 9: do you communicate that to them? It's not about the

1359
01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:28,080
Speaker 9: people who agitate each other talking because two agitated people

1360
01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:33,040
Speaker 9: are never gonna are. It just doesn't work. I send

1361
01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:36,479
Speaker 9: you so much love because that was just tough and hard.

1362
01:09:38,520 --> 01:09:41,880
Speaker 10: What's up Native Lands is Craig. I just saw a

1363
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:44,240
Speaker 10: recent episode. I thought it was brilliant, which driving me

1364
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:47,240
Speaker 10: to God. And everybody was on the panel and I

1365
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:51,000
Speaker 10: just wanted to say this topic really resonated with me

1366
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:52,920
Speaker 10: because I feel like at times I've been on both

1367
01:09:52,960 --> 01:10:00,760
Speaker 10: sides of that black intellectual versus, you know, the view

1368
01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:05,640
Speaker 10: of the everyday guy. I've been on both sides of that.

1369
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:07,439
Speaker 11: There have been times when I felt like I was

1370
01:10:07,439 --> 01:10:10,559
Speaker 11: out of place in both arenas. So I just wanted

1371
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:14,439
Speaker 11: to say that I really appreciate this episode. It really

1372
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:15,880
Speaker 11: made me think about a lot of things in a

1373
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:19,200
Speaker 11: different way, and I want to say I appreciate y'all

1374
01:10:19,840 --> 01:10:21,720
Speaker 11: and welcome home.

1375
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:24,840
Speaker 5: Well, thank you guys for taking the time. I don't

1376
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:27,519
Speaker 5: know if there was a question in that, so for

1377
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:31,519
Speaker 5: forgive me. I think the first woman was asking I'm

1378
01:10:31,560 --> 01:10:33,479
Speaker 5: not sure what she was asking. I think she was saying,

1379
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:37,760
Speaker 5: how do we communicate to provoctive tours? What black women do?

1380
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:41,719
Speaker 5: Sorry if I have anything about what you were saying, wrong,

1381
01:10:42,560 --> 01:10:44,960
Speaker 5: But what I'll say, what I appreciate is the conversation

1382
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:51,120
Speaker 5: that this sparked in so many spaces. My dentist was

1383
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:53,439
Speaker 5: like a really close friend of mine, Doctor Richard Forgore

1384
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:56,439
Speaker 5: was telling me that people were in his chair telling

1385
01:10:56,479 --> 01:10:57,880
Speaker 5: him he didn't they didn't know that we even knew

1386
01:10:57,880 --> 01:11:01,000
Speaker 5: each other talking to him about the converse. So no

1387
01:11:01,040 --> 01:11:03,639
Speaker 5: matter where you fall on, whichever side of the divide,

1388
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:07,360
Speaker 5: I really appreciate everybody tuning in and listening, and I

1389
01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:10,439
Speaker 5: still maintain my thoughts. Like I said, my thoughts don't

1390
01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:13,479
Speaker 5: slay in the wind of public opinion. The first time

1391
01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:17,200
Speaker 5: that I respond to something based on public opinion, I'm

1392
01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:19,120
Speaker 5: a slave to those thoughts, and it would, you know,

1393
01:11:19,160 --> 01:11:21,880
Speaker 5: take away the integrity I have. I do my thinking

1394
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:25,320
Speaker 5: about a thing before I say it, So I am

1395
01:11:25,320 --> 01:11:27,880
Speaker 5: glad that other people had so many strong thoughts about it,

1396
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:29,520
Speaker 5: and I hope the conversations continue.

1397
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:34,000
Speaker 2: Well, I'm just going to weigh in here.

1398
01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:36,280
Speaker 1: I really want to get black folks to the point

1399
01:11:36,280 --> 01:11:38,960
Speaker 1: where we can have disagreements without name calling. The ad

1400
01:11:38,960 --> 01:11:42,479
Speaker 1: hominem attacks are unnecessary. I think they're divisive. I don't

1401
01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:44,840
Speaker 1: think that you, and I'm particularly talking to the first

1402
01:11:44,840 --> 01:11:47,559
Speaker 1: syst You don't have to call somebody a minstrel or

1403
01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:50,559
Speaker 1: a minstrel show or whatever. It's just unnecessary. You can

1404
01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:53,600
Speaker 1: disagree with someone, you can say that they were factually inaccurate.

1405
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:55,840
Speaker 1: You can say you know, this is something that I

1406
01:11:55,880 --> 01:12:00,120
Speaker 1: think encourages people to go a different way. Whatever but

1407
01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:02,439
Speaker 1: I just I really I don't like that it makes

1408
01:12:02,479 --> 01:12:04,519
Speaker 1: it hard for me to respond to the substance of

1409
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:06,439
Speaker 1: the question. When I hear and at hominem attack, I

1410
01:12:06,479 --> 01:12:09,120
Speaker 1: try very very hard not to engage in those I

1411
01:12:09,160 --> 01:12:12,439
Speaker 1: will say that one thing I value very much about

1412
01:12:12,439 --> 01:12:16,960
Speaker 1: our show, my conversations with my brother Lenard, is I

1413
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:21,840
Speaker 1: am stretched often to reconsider my position to think through things.

1414
01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:24,880
Speaker 1: To Tip's point, I don't think it means I'm blown

1415
01:12:24,960 --> 01:12:27,800
Speaker 1: by public opinion or swayed by public opinion, but I

1416
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:31,160
Speaker 1: do think hearing different perspectives informs my opinion.

1417
01:12:31,439 --> 01:12:32,400
Speaker 2: So I'm grateful for that.

1418
01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:35,120
Speaker 1: Grateful for you Craig who said I've been on both

1419
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:36,800
Speaker 1: sides it is, brother, I'm with you. I've been on

1420
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:37,960
Speaker 1: both sides of it too.

1421
01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:40,760
Speaker 2: I get it.

1422
01:12:40,840 --> 01:12:44,479
Speaker 1: So I'm appreciative of those thoughts, and I hate that

1423
01:12:44,520 --> 01:12:47,120
Speaker 1: the podcast was difficult for anyone to hear. But I

1424
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:49,640
Speaker 1: hope that we don't run away from these conversations. The

1425
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:51,800
Speaker 1: math ain't math and without the whole of us, so

1426
01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:55,320
Speaker 1: we don't have time for any mathematics that would cause

1427
01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:57,280
Speaker 1: us to divide and subtract in this moment.

1428
01:12:57,479 --> 01:12:59,519
Speaker 5: Can I just sounds a quick question because I hear

1429
01:12:59,560 --> 01:13:02,680
Speaker 5: you about the name calling, but when we I just

1430
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:06,160
Speaker 5: wonder if that line flides, you know, because I know

1431
01:13:06,200 --> 01:13:08,840
Speaker 5: I've been the phrase turned the phrase before and talking

1432
01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:12,120
Speaker 5: about people, and certainly, like on this podcast frequently you

1433
01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:15,240
Speaker 5: call like Clarence Thomas so Hucci like, and I think

1434
01:13:15,240 --> 01:13:17,240
Speaker 5: you're right. I think you nail it. I think that's

1435
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:21,280
Speaker 5: very accurate. Do you like, is there a line where

1436
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:23,800
Speaker 5: it's like, it's okay for these people who are on

1437
01:13:23,880 --> 01:13:26,280
Speaker 5: this side of the divide where you can say that,

1438
01:13:26,400 --> 01:13:29,120
Speaker 5: or do you feel like, well, I'm not gonna refer

1439
01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:31,840
Speaker 5: to Clarence Thomas that way anymore, which I hope you

1440
01:13:31,880 --> 01:13:33,920
Speaker 5: always do, because I think I don't think it's name calling.

1441
01:13:33,960 --> 01:13:35,839
Speaker 5: I think sometimes it's an accurate description.

1442
01:13:36,640 --> 01:13:39,080
Speaker 2: Let me let me clarify. Thank you for that question. Tip.

1443
01:13:39,680 --> 01:13:42,200
Speaker 1: I'm always going to rest squarely in the fact that

1444
01:13:42,240 --> 01:13:45,719
Speaker 1: I'm a human with hypocrisy, right, I got blind spots blind.

1445
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:49,639
Speaker 3: I never heard nobody say that out loud, and I'm

1446
01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:51,200
Speaker 3: stealing it because that is a beautiful state.

1447
01:13:51,880 --> 01:13:53,040
Speaker 2: It is so true.

1448
01:13:53,200 --> 01:13:55,200
Speaker 1: And I and I hate the fact that we but

1449
01:13:55,280 --> 01:13:57,840
Speaker 1: that we when we issue these purity tests that we

1450
01:13:57,880 --> 01:14:00,200
Speaker 1: can't pass ourselves, like We talk about people all the

1451
01:14:00,200 --> 01:14:02,080
Speaker 1: time on the show that don't get to come on

1452
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:04,280
Speaker 1: and defend themselves. We had a conversation last week where

1453
01:14:04,280 --> 01:14:05,519
Speaker 1: it was like, oh, well, this person's not on to

1454
01:14:05,600 --> 01:14:06,360
Speaker 1: defend themselves.

1455
01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:07,800
Speaker 2: So we have these blind spots.

1456
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:12,640
Speaker 1: Now here's my real blind spot, Tom's I reserve the

1457
01:14:12,720 --> 01:14:15,080
Speaker 1: right to call a Tom a Tom. Now other than that,

1458
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:18,400
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to disengage from an hominem attacks. I

1459
01:14:18,439 --> 01:14:21,679
Speaker 1: think that black people who are striving for the betterment

1460
01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:23,600
Speaker 1: and liberation of black people, I do not.

1461
01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:27,120
Speaker 2: Want to call names. So that is really what I mean.

1462
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:29,559
Speaker 2: Can I be pushed on that? I'm open to it.

1463
01:14:29,640 --> 01:14:31,000
Speaker 2: So I love to be challenged.

1464
01:14:31,120 --> 01:14:33,200
Speaker 1: I love to hear from people who are like, we

1465
01:14:33,240 --> 01:14:35,759
Speaker 1: want you to exist at a higher a vibration system.

1466
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:36,599
Speaker 2: I'm open to it.

1467
01:14:36,680 --> 01:14:40,200
Speaker 1: Right now, I'm higher vibration, but I got a petty

1468
01:14:40,280 --> 01:14:42,840
Speaker 1: side that comes around every hour.

1469
01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:44,519
Speaker 2: So I'm willing to be stretched their.

1470
01:14:44,360 --> 01:14:49,280
Speaker 5: First another prices, you know, like Steve might feel strongly

1471
01:14:49,320 --> 01:14:50,320
Speaker 5: about her position.

1472
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:51,840
Speaker 2: I'm just I'm not gonna do that.

1473
01:14:51,960 --> 01:14:55,160
Speaker 1: So one again, Lenard is I'm not gonna let anybody

1474
01:14:55,200 --> 01:14:58,280
Speaker 1: call y'all out your name to me. Ever, So Lenard

1475
01:14:58,360 --> 01:15:00,960
Speaker 1: is my brother. Y'all are family me. I'm not doing

1476
01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:02,760
Speaker 1: that like that is a hard line in the stand

1477
01:15:02,760 --> 01:15:04,680
Speaker 1: for me. I don't play about it. Me and him

1478
01:15:04,720 --> 01:15:08,760
Speaker 1: will go total told rumble on policy stuff, on strategy

1479
01:15:08,840 --> 01:15:11,840
Speaker 1: all the time. Do not call him out his name

1480
01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:13,320
Speaker 1: to me and think I'm not gonna say that.

1481
01:15:13,479 --> 01:15:15,360
Speaker 3: So, Andrew, do you have a call to action today?

1482
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:17,960
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't know. Welcome, Welcome to the show. Brother,

1483
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:18,320
Speaker 3: I don't.

1484
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:21,840
Speaker 2: I'm saying no, we have more to say.

1485
01:15:21,880 --> 01:15:25,559
Speaker 5: But I appreciate both callers' perspectives and thank you for

1486
01:15:25,640 --> 01:15:28,240
Speaker 5: sending it in. And you know, they have a right

1487
01:15:28,320 --> 01:15:30,040
Speaker 5: to say what they want, but you know people have

1488
01:15:30,080 --> 01:15:34,639
Speaker 5: a right to respond. You still mute because you're still singing.

1489
01:15:34,760 --> 01:15:42,479
Speaker 5: Probably Andrew, take it off, mute, take it off me mute,

1490
01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:45,760
Speaker 5: be you go because Andrew is so. Butkar you had

1491
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:48,559
Speaker 5: a call to action? What what's yours? I know you

1492
01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:49,879
Speaker 5: wanted to talk about veterans.

1493
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:52,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, I just think that you can't. You cannot

1494
01:15:53,560 --> 01:15:56,000
Speaker 3: live in this world and not appreciate those individuals and

1495
01:15:56,000 --> 01:16:00,719
Speaker 3: get people their flowers while they're living, or those individuals

1496
01:16:00,720 --> 01:16:03,280
Speaker 3: who passed, or some of our unsung heroes, My grandfather

1497
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:07,680
Speaker 3: passed away, Reverend W. Williamson decades ago, but he was

1498
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:12,280
Speaker 3: a World War Two Armie chaplain. It's those type of

1499
01:16:12,320 --> 01:16:14,519
Speaker 3: stories about the faith that led us, and so I

1500
01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:16,880
Speaker 3: didn't really care what nobody was talking about. I just

1501
01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:18,680
Speaker 3: wanted to make sure that I honored my family and

1502
01:16:18,680 --> 01:16:21,719
Speaker 3: lifted up those people who sometimes don't get the credit

1503
01:16:21,760 --> 01:16:23,680
Speaker 3: they deserve in space as they deserve it.

1504
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:27,559
Speaker 2: Ma'am, Do I know that.

1505
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:30,720
Speaker 1: We were talking about another listener question for a call

1506
01:16:30,760 --> 01:16:32,200
Speaker 1: to action? Are we doing another question?

1507
01:16:32,280 --> 01:16:32,479
Speaker 2: Y'all?

1508
01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:33,920
Speaker 4: Happy to yeah?

1509
01:16:34,240 --> 01:16:35,440
Speaker 12: May Gleam podcast.

1510
01:16:35,840 --> 01:16:40,840
Speaker 13: I feel so good about this week's episode. I'm not

1511
01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:45,040
Speaker 13: sure if I haven't listened well, but take me and Andrew,

1512
01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:49,880
Speaker 13: like you two really expressing why some of us did

1513
01:16:49,960 --> 01:16:55,080
Speaker 13: not find a humane vote for Kamala Harris really touched

1514
01:16:55,120 --> 01:16:55,679
Speaker 13: me deeply.

1515
01:16:57,400 --> 01:17:01,560
Speaker 12: She's being over qualified. I think she was the best choice.

1516
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:04,880
Speaker 12: I have to deal with the conscious that I did

1517
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:07,120
Speaker 12: vote for her in New York City, but I knew

1518
01:17:07,160 --> 01:17:10,320
Speaker 12: I was doing it as a selfish American in the

1519
01:17:10,439 --> 01:17:15,040
Speaker 12: sense of self preservation and readis reception, especially after I

1520
01:17:15,040 --> 01:17:16,880
Speaker 12: start Trump Raley in New York, which I didn't think

1521
01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:22,519
Speaker 12: was possible. However, I can't say I'm sad that she's

1522
01:17:22,600 --> 01:17:29,879
Speaker 12: not in the sense of she aligned herself with genocide,

1523
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:32,840
Speaker 12: but that does not mean she wasn't qualified.

1524
01:17:33,120 --> 01:17:34,320
Speaker 9: But thank you guys.

1525
01:17:35,520 --> 01:17:38,040
Speaker 4: Well, I think that was a comment. So I the

1526
01:17:38,120 --> 01:17:43,160
Speaker 4: other thing I'll say is it is Kamala the pronunciation

1527
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:45,760
Speaker 4: of her name, and that's it for.

1528
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:47,000
Speaker 5: Me, and it got something to say.

1529
01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:50,960
Speaker 1: I just don't know what it's gonna take for people

1530
01:17:51,040 --> 01:17:54,840
Speaker 1: to stop saying this like she's she was on the stage.

1531
01:17:54,880 --> 01:17:56,240
Speaker 2: She's not just been on the stage with me.

1532
01:17:56,280 --> 01:17:58,960
Speaker 1: She's done a full book tour talking about where she

1533
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:01,559
Speaker 1: feels like they've made a miss. She was the first

1534
01:18:02,520 --> 01:18:05,559
Speaker 1: person in the Biden administration to call what was happening

1535
01:18:05,640 --> 01:18:09,920
Speaker 1: there a genocide. I don't understand why that's not penetrating.

1536
01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:14,360
Speaker 1: I certainly understand frustration, tensions being high, but I just

1537
01:18:14,439 --> 01:18:15,599
Speaker 1: I really don't like that.

1538
01:18:15,680 --> 01:18:19,000
Speaker 4: And I think possibly because when it matters, that distinction

1539
01:18:19,320 --> 01:18:22,559
Speaker 4: wasn't there we were seeing, and when it mattered was

1540
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:26,679
Speaker 4: when she was running for president and what her position

1541
01:18:26,800 --> 01:18:31,480
Speaker 4: was at the time. I think it was even further disappointing,

1542
01:18:31,640 --> 01:18:34,479
Speaker 4: you know, at the convention when and I know she

1543
01:18:34,520 --> 01:18:37,720
Speaker 4: didn't run every detail, every stop every whatever. But at

1544
01:18:37,760 --> 01:18:41,400
Speaker 4: her convention, we didn't get to hear from the Palestinian

1545
01:18:41,479 --> 01:18:44,280
Speaker 4: speakers who who wanted to take the podium, which on

1546
01:18:44,320 --> 01:18:47,559
Speaker 4: this show we created a platform for it. But you know,

1547
01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:49,639
Speaker 4: this is a big tent party and one big enough

1548
01:18:49,680 --> 01:18:53,400
Speaker 4: where the voices of people who were very directly affected

1549
01:18:53,400 --> 01:18:58,080
Speaker 4: by US foreign policy wanted to make you know, wanted

1550
01:18:58,120 --> 01:19:02,879
Speaker 4: to make their opinions and depressions known to a larger audience.

1551
01:19:02,920 --> 01:19:05,479
Speaker 4: And the DNC would have created that. But I think,

1552
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:07,920
Speaker 4: you know, look, this is gonna be a hard one

1553
01:19:07,920 --> 01:19:11,759
Speaker 4: for her to shape because very few people are willing

1554
01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:14,680
Speaker 4: to accept that when you're that adjacent to power, you

1555
01:19:14,720 --> 01:19:17,120
Speaker 4: have your own power. But then you are that adjacent

1556
01:19:17,200 --> 01:19:19,400
Speaker 4: as a as A as A as A as a

1557
01:19:19,560 --> 01:19:23,559
Speaker 4: listening and sharing and thinking partners to the president and

1558
01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:27,880
Speaker 4: the US policy. It did not translate that there was

1559
01:19:27,920 --> 01:19:32,680
Speaker 4: anything other than support for the the Nehu regime and

1560
01:19:32,920 --> 01:19:37,760
Speaker 4: and and just the rot of death that has encircled

1561
01:19:37,800 --> 01:19:38,719
Speaker 4: that entire region.

1562
01:19:38,920 --> 01:19:42,600
Speaker 1: I guess what I'm curious about is how what like

1563
01:19:42,680 --> 01:19:50,439
Speaker 1: what people expected the vice president to do? Let me

1564
01:19:50,479 --> 01:19:53,559
Speaker 1: just finish this, but she also and she also did

1565
01:19:53,640 --> 01:19:55,559
Speaker 1: the same at the foot of the m and Pettis Bridge.

1566
01:19:55,560 --> 01:19:58,920
Speaker 1: Before she was running, she did the same thing. So

1567
01:19:59,000 --> 01:20:01,000
Speaker 1: I just I'm not clear about this. And I also

1568
01:20:01,000 --> 01:20:04,120
Speaker 1: will say that she talks about in the book several

1569
01:20:04,160 --> 01:20:07,960
Speaker 1: closed door conversations where she voiced very clear opposition to

1570
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:08,759
Speaker 1: what was happening.

1571
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:11,920
Speaker 2: I would love for people to articulate what.

1572
01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:14,759
Speaker 1: They believe a vice president can do, other than disagree

1573
01:20:14,760 --> 01:20:17,280
Speaker 1: on messaging, what they believe the role of the vice

1574
01:20:17,360 --> 01:20:18,760
Speaker 1: president is in that situation.

1575
01:20:18,880 --> 01:20:21,720
Speaker 4: But disagreeing on messaging when you're the vice president or

1576
01:20:21,720 --> 01:20:23,599
Speaker 4: a president who has a different position as a big deal.

1577
01:20:23,760 --> 01:20:25,120
Speaker 2: She did that at the foot of the m and

1578
01:20:25,160 --> 01:20:26,920
Speaker 2: Pettis Bridge, she did.

1579
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:29,920
Speaker 4: And I will also say life was brightest on her

1580
01:20:30,120 --> 01:20:33,120
Speaker 4: as a candidate for president. I could not see daylight

1581
01:20:33,120 --> 01:20:34,559
Speaker 4: between she and President Biden.

1582
01:20:34,680 --> 01:20:37,160
Speaker 1: There was daylight in her speech on the floor of

1583
01:20:37,200 --> 01:20:40,840
Speaker 1: the Democratic National Convention. And I will tell you, and

1584
01:20:40,880 --> 01:20:43,000
Speaker 1: I will tell you that I also agree with you

1585
01:20:43,080 --> 01:20:45,400
Speaker 1: that it wasn't far enough. I do agree with that,

1586
01:20:45,640 --> 01:20:47,840
Speaker 1: and I will also tell you that she agrees with you,

1587
01:20:47,880 --> 01:20:49,880
Speaker 1: had said as much in the book that she did

1588
01:20:49,920 --> 01:20:51,640
Speaker 1: not go far enough. So I agree on all of

1589
01:20:51,720 --> 01:20:54,439
Speaker 1: those points. What I don't agree with are the people

1590
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:57,639
Speaker 1: who did not see this. Man says in this question

1591
01:20:57,720 --> 01:21:00,240
Speaker 1: or in his comment that he couldn't believe there was

1592
01:21:00,439 --> 01:21:03,800
Speaker 1: a rally, a Trump rally in New York. Well, now

1593
01:21:03,800 --> 01:21:05,840
Speaker 1: we can't believe all these other things that are way

1594
01:21:05,880 --> 01:21:08,080
Speaker 1: far beyond a rally. And if you don't understand the

1595
01:21:08,120 --> 01:21:12,920
Speaker 1: distinction between a Donald Trump presidency and a Kamala Harris presidency,

1596
01:21:13,280 --> 01:21:14,400
Speaker 1: I don't know what to tell you.

1597
01:21:14,479 --> 01:21:15,920
Speaker 2: And yes, there is a lot of light between.

1598
01:21:16,120 --> 01:21:18,519
Speaker 5: I think he so, just to honor his point, I

1599
01:21:18,560 --> 01:21:21,800
Speaker 5: think he very much probably understands the difference. And I

1600
01:21:21,840 --> 01:21:24,720
Speaker 5: think it's really difficult to have frustration with people who

1601
01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:29,160
Speaker 5: saw the daily onslaught of atrocities that we saw, of

1602
01:21:29,280 --> 01:21:33,240
Speaker 5: imagery of hospitals being bombed, knowing that the United States

1603
01:21:33,320 --> 01:21:38,880
Speaker 5: was funding it, and having the responsibility to call out

1604
01:21:38,880 --> 01:21:41,640
Speaker 5: our leaders to say, yes, we demand more. And so

1605
01:21:41,920 --> 01:21:44,000
Speaker 5: if you're bombing people who look like me, if you're

1606
01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:46,200
Speaker 5: doing this people who don't look like me, I want

1607
01:21:46,240 --> 01:21:49,479
Speaker 5: you to do everything possible to stop it, even if

1608
01:21:49,479 --> 01:21:52,120
Speaker 5: that means disrupting norms. So I don't have smoke for

1609
01:21:52,200 --> 01:21:55,839
Speaker 5: people who feel that level of pain, for dying children,

1610
01:21:55,960 --> 01:22:00,200
Speaker 5: dying men, dying women, that it is clearly an ethnic cleaning,

1611
01:22:00,439 --> 01:22:02,719
Speaker 5: while some people were walking around with a shoulder shrug

1612
01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:07,679
Speaker 5: an indifference. I just I understand that level of humanity

1613
01:22:07,720 --> 01:22:08,280
Speaker 5: from folks.

1614
01:22:08,360 --> 01:22:09,160
Speaker 4: So I hear you.

1615
01:22:09,240 --> 01:22:11,600
Speaker 5: I think I think there, I think there's ability to

1616
01:22:11,680 --> 01:22:14,840
Speaker 5: understand the policy of it. But I'm not mad at

1617
01:22:14,840 --> 01:22:17,400
Speaker 5: people who were conflicted and who still have a lot

1618
01:22:17,439 --> 01:22:19,680
Speaker 5: of frustration around it. I'm sorry if it sounds at

1619
01:22:19,680 --> 01:22:22,240
Speaker 5: all like I'm mad at anybody. What I'm just saying

1620
01:22:22,280 --> 01:22:25,439
Speaker 5: is there is deep frustration for for me personally. I

1621
01:22:25,439 --> 01:22:28,240
Speaker 5: don't want to project this on y'all, but to understand

1622
01:22:28,400 --> 01:22:32,080
Speaker 5: how vastly different they would be on these policies. The

1623
01:22:32,120 --> 01:22:34,880
Speaker 5: fact that Donald Trump has given cover to a war

1624
01:22:34,960 --> 01:22:38,559
Speaker 5: criminal in that Yahoo's currently under like in a corruption

1625
01:22:38,680 --> 01:22:41,639
Speaker 5: trial like this is not Those are not her people,

1626
01:22:41,680 --> 01:22:43,080
Speaker 5: and she made that very Some.

1627
01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:46,800
Speaker 4: Of us would interpret that the previous administration also gave cover.

1628
01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:49,880
Speaker 1: The previous administration did, but not Kamala Harris, so where

1629
01:22:49,880 --> 01:22:50,679
Speaker 1: there was distinction.

1630
01:22:50,920 --> 01:22:53,080
Speaker 4: But she's in she's in the administration.

1631
01:22:53,360 --> 01:22:55,719
Speaker 1: Yes she was, And the only way that there would

1632
01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:57,920
Speaker 1: have been any change is for her to have had

1633
01:22:57,960 --> 01:23:02,439
Speaker 1: an opportunity, and sadly there was. And again I agree

1634
01:23:02,479 --> 01:23:04,680
Speaker 1: that you could have gone further, she says in the

1635
01:23:04,680 --> 01:23:08,160
Speaker 1: books she could have gone further, but she's still articulated.

1636
01:23:07,720 --> 01:23:08,879
Speaker 2: Where there was difference.

1637
01:23:08,920 --> 01:23:11,639
Speaker 1: And I think what's unfortunate about it is not only

1638
01:23:11,680 --> 01:23:14,080
Speaker 1: did we not get difference, we got far worse with

1639
01:23:14,120 --> 01:23:17,360
Speaker 1: the administration that we have and sadly, in this country

1640
01:23:17,439 --> 01:23:19,960
Speaker 1: until there is not a two party system, there were

1641
01:23:20,040 --> 01:23:23,439
Speaker 1: only two choices, and Kamala Harris by far was the

1642
01:23:23,479 --> 01:23:26,360
Speaker 1: better choice. I know we all believed that as rough

1643
01:23:26,400 --> 01:23:28,080
Speaker 1: as this was, there were those of us who sat

1644
01:23:28,080 --> 01:23:29,040
Speaker 1: out of Christmas parties.

1645
01:23:29,080 --> 01:23:30,920
Speaker 2: We wrote letters letting them know that.

1646
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:32,760
Speaker 1: There was a lot going on with Gaza that we

1647
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:35,040
Speaker 1: could not turn a blind eye to. Do not hear

1648
01:23:35,080 --> 01:23:38,040
Speaker 1: me say that I'm turning a blind eye to this suffering,

1649
01:23:38,240 --> 01:23:41,240
Speaker 1: but please hear me say that in a space where

1650
01:23:41,240 --> 01:23:44,599
Speaker 1: there were only two choices, there were only two choices,

1651
01:23:44,800 --> 01:23:46,400
Speaker 1: or you could sit it out and you still made

1652
01:23:46,439 --> 01:23:46,960
Speaker 1: a choice.

1653
01:23:47,120 --> 01:23:50,600
Speaker 4: That's what we talked about that though last week Angelo.

1654
01:23:50,479 --> 01:23:51,559
Speaker 2: Yes, we talk about it again.

1655
01:23:51,760 --> 01:23:53,200
Speaker 4: No, no, no, I mean the point is this, I think

1656
01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:57,120
Speaker 4: while we may be voters who can consider the full

1657
01:23:57,280 --> 01:24:00,559
Speaker 4: range of the issues that may be at impact on

1658
01:24:00,600 --> 01:24:04,120
Speaker 4: the ballot, there's some people who have a smaller window

1659
01:24:04,120 --> 01:24:06,160
Speaker 4: by which they view these things. And what I mean

1660
01:24:06,160 --> 01:24:09,519
Speaker 4: by smallers, I don't mean pejorative. I just mean single issues,

1661
01:24:10,240 --> 01:24:12,680
Speaker 4: narrow limbs, more narrow lens to what it is that

1662
01:24:12,720 --> 01:24:16,680
Speaker 4: they make these decisions on. And I get it. I

1663
01:24:16,760 --> 01:24:19,439
Speaker 4: try to. If I could force people to have to

1664
01:24:19,479 --> 01:24:22,320
Speaker 4: care about the range of it, I would, but we can't.

1665
01:24:23,240 --> 01:24:26,360
Speaker 4: And just because we can't doesn't make necessarily their motivation

1666
01:24:26,439 --> 01:24:28,479
Speaker 4: for going to vote or not to vote the wrong

1667
01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:29,320
Speaker 4: with the right one.

1668
01:24:29,439 --> 01:24:31,519
Speaker 2: It is frustrating. And I'll just tell y'all this too.

1669
01:24:31,800 --> 01:24:34,720
Speaker 1: And I know we have to wrap to sit with

1670
01:24:34,800 --> 01:24:38,920
Speaker 1: her last week and to have not one, not two,

1671
01:24:39,040 --> 01:24:43,720
Speaker 1: not three, not four, not five, but six folks protest her,

1672
01:24:44,360 --> 01:24:46,439
Speaker 1: someone who like if they read, if they even read

1673
01:24:46,479 --> 01:24:48,080
Speaker 1: the articles, let's say they can't read the book, they

1674
01:24:48,080 --> 01:24:50,479
Speaker 1: read the articles about where she's at. Why are you

1675
01:24:50,520 --> 01:24:53,760
Speaker 1: not protesting Trump events? Why are you not protesting the

1676
01:24:53,800 --> 01:24:57,519
Speaker 1: Republican senators, the folks who have said that they will

1677
01:24:57,560 --> 01:25:00,680
Speaker 1: continue to get support from APAC donors. Why are you

1678
01:25:00,800 --> 01:25:04,040
Speaker 1: not protesting them? They're protesting someone who is essentially an

1679
01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:06,719
Speaker 1: ally and honestly, I hope she doesn't mind me sharing

1680
01:25:06,760 --> 01:25:09,120
Speaker 1: this was like, I want to have a roundtable discussion

1681
01:25:09,439 --> 01:25:12,280
Speaker 1: with some folks who are Palestinian leaders in this space

1682
01:25:12,320 --> 01:25:14,519
Speaker 1: so I can understand where else I can may be

1683
01:25:14,560 --> 01:25:16,000
Speaker 1: able to lend my influence.

1684
01:25:16,320 --> 01:25:17,519
Speaker 2: She's that type of person.

1685
01:25:17,560 --> 01:25:19,759
Speaker 1: I've always known her to be that type of person,

1686
01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:20,559
Speaker 1: So it's good.

1687
01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:22,920
Speaker 4: But I think part of the protesting Angela is that

1688
01:25:23,040 --> 01:25:25,679
Speaker 4: we liked we go places where we think we may

1689
01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:28,400
Speaker 4: we may be heard. Yeah, that's I think a lot

1690
01:25:28,400 --> 01:25:32,400
Speaker 4: of times are protest and where there is care, I

1691
01:25:32,400 --> 01:25:34,760
Speaker 4: ain't going to. Trump can come to here all day long.

1692
01:25:34,920 --> 01:25:36,760
Speaker 4: I'm not going to. I don't care for him. He

1693
01:25:36,800 --> 01:25:39,040
Speaker 4: don't care for me, and my protests are not going

1694
01:25:39,080 --> 01:25:42,080
Speaker 4: to equal concern by him for the things in which

1695
01:25:42,080 --> 01:25:44,920
Speaker 4: I'm experiencing. So a lot of times when we've organized

1696
01:25:44,960 --> 01:25:48,040
Speaker 4: protests within our own movement circles, within our own community,

1697
01:25:48,320 --> 01:25:50,840
Speaker 4: we go to places where we think, one, there is care,

1698
01:25:51,400 --> 01:25:54,519
Speaker 4: you might see me as human just like you, And

1699
01:25:54,600 --> 01:25:57,640
Speaker 4: then two I expect more, and so I want to

1700
01:25:57,680 --> 01:25:59,880
Speaker 4: say that and now we can get to the then

1701
01:26:00,160 --> 01:26:03,200
Speaker 4: happens after. But I think people make those choices very consciously,

1702
01:26:03,360 --> 01:26:05,120
Speaker 4: like this is where we're targeting. I used to I

1703
01:26:05,160 --> 01:26:06,840
Speaker 4: remember I told you when I first got mayor and

1704
01:26:06,920 --> 01:26:08,840
Speaker 4: they protested me. I was like, I was just watch

1705
01:26:08,880 --> 01:26:11,599
Speaker 4: all at the problem, bring food to you at night.

1706
01:26:11,680 --> 01:26:14,599
Speaker 4: This is that a third Well, now occupy a different space.

1707
01:26:14,920 --> 01:26:17,760
Speaker 4: Now you're the mayor and you represent a system, and

1708
01:26:17,800 --> 01:26:20,320
Speaker 4: that system is not gone just because you're here. It's

1709
01:26:20,479 --> 01:26:23,640
Speaker 4: it's continuing to thrive. So now it's on you. And

1710
01:26:23,720 --> 01:26:26,080
Speaker 4: I know you see me. I know you have love

1711
01:26:26,120 --> 01:26:28,479
Speaker 4: for me, and I know you care, and that's why

1712
01:26:28,520 --> 01:26:34,240
Speaker 4: I'm here demanding more. Whether that's the right tact, I

1713
01:26:34,280 --> 01:26:36,400
Speaker 4: don't know, or rather I don't think it should be

1714
01:26:36,400 --> 01:26:39,679
Speaker 4: the only exclusive tact. I think you put heat on everybody.

1715
01:26:39,720 --> 01:26:43,000
Speaker 4: But I do know why people make those choices, and

1716
01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:45,960
Speaker 4: its largely because you're going to a target who you

1717
01:26:46,040 --> 01:26:49,120
Speaker 4: think will see your humanity, who cares. And then two

1718
01:26:49,240 --> 01:26:51,960
Speaker 4: to say I expect more, well, I aree.

1719
01:26:51,720 --> 01:26:55,320
Speaker 5: You to how people feel. I'm not dismissing anyone's feelings.

1720
01:26:55,479 --> 01:26:57,360
Speaker 5: And I please fact check me on this, because I

1721
01:26:57,360 --> 01:26:59,240
Speaker 5: haven't fact checked. But Angela and I were talking about

1722
01:26:59,280 --> 01:27:02,680
Speaker 5: this earlier and I think I have not FactCheck. But

1723
01:27:02,760 --> 01:27:07,719
Speaker 5: I think this might be the only full broadcasted book

1724
01:27:07,720 --> 01:27:12,000
Speaker 5: conversation that she's had. Forgive me if if I'm wrong

1725
01:27:12,280 --> 01:27:14,800
Speaker 5: about that, but you all please be sure to check

1726
01:27:14,800 --> 01:27:18,599
Speaker 5: it out on NLP's YouTube page. It was a really

1727
01:27:18,640 --> 01:27:23,000
Speaker 5: great conversation and you can also see Angela's outfit, which

1728
01:27:23,080 --> 01:27:23,559
Speaker 5: I loved.

1729
01:27:24,400 --> 01:27:26,439
Speaker 2: God, thanks TIF. It was a repeat.

1730
01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:31,360
Speaker 5: I know what Paris, Yeah, yes, I was like, yes,

1731
01:27:31,479 --> 01:27:33,240
Speaker 5: you better. I loved it, loved it.

1732
01:27:33,280 --> 01:27:35,800
Speaker 1: Well, it's sadly it's because Inga's gonna kill me. But

1733
01:27:35,920 --> 01:27:38,559
Speaker 1: the Sergio outfits that I got, apparently I'm not tall

1734
01:27:38,680 --> 01:27:41,000
Speaker 1: enough to wear some of Sergio's pants, so I had

1735
01:27:41,000 --> 01:27:43,400
Speaker 1: some fashion fails and had to run that old thing back.

1736
01:27:43,479 --> 01:27:45,960
Speaker 2: It looks, you know, sometimes you got to do that.

1737
01:27:46,040 --> 01:27:46,519
Speaker 2: I really.

1738
01:27:46,680 --> 01:27:49,720
Speaker 1: Let me just tell you, guys, I so appreciate you

1739
01:27:50,840 --> 01:27:53,720
Speaker 1: for stretching me, for stretching the audience, for stretching each other.

1740
01:27:53,800 --> 01:27:56,320
Speaker 1: I think it's so important that we always look not

1741
01:27:56,360 --> 01:27:59,439
Speaker 1: only at our politics, but policies and the impacts that

1742
01:27:59,479 --> 01:28:00,759
Speaker 1: it has on people's lives.

1743
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:03,479
Speaker 2: And the one thing that you can rest assured that you're.

1744
01:28:03,280 --> 01:28:06,560
Speaker 1: Going to get on Native Lampod is a policy consideration

1745
01:28:06,680 --> 01:28:09,000
Speaker 1: that centers people. And so I'm grateful for y'all, even

1746
01:28:09,040 --> 01:28:11,960
Speaker 1: when it sounds like I'm getting callous, like I got family.

1747
01:28:11,720 --> 01:28:13,200
Speaker 2: That'll that will loop me.

1748
01:28:13,320 --> 01:28:15,519
Speaker 1: Wrote me back in And I appreciate y'all even on

1749
01:28:15,560 --> 01:28:17,160
Speaker 1: this last question and this comment.

1750
01:28:17,400 --> 01:28:18,800
Speaker 2: But car you are quiet. I don't know if you

1751
01:28:18,840 --> 01:28:20,040
Speaker 2: have anything before we wrap.

1752
01:28:20,200 --> 01:28:22,200
Speaker 3: No, I'm just tired of relitigat in the past. I

1753
01:28:22,240 --> 01:28:23,719
Speaker 3: look forward to talking about tomorrow.

1754
01:28:24,800 --> 01:28:25,200
Speaker 2: Okay.

1755
01:28:25,400 --> 01:28:28,840
Speaker 5: I like our disagreements. I think it's get to see

1756
01:28:28,880 --> 01:28:32,519
Speaker 5: that in other places, so they have some people call

1757
01:28:32,560 --> 01:28:34,839
Speaker 5: it nuanced, but I don't even think our disagreements are nuanced.

1758
01:28:34,840 --> 01:28:38,839
Speaker 5: I think they are hardcore disagreement. But in other spaces

1759
01:28:38,880 --> 01:28:40,880
Speaker 5: we get lumped in the same category, like you're here

1760
01:28:40,960 --> 01:28:42,760
Speaker 5: to represent this person, but here we get to be

1761
01:28:42,880 --> 01:28:47,120
Speaker 5: free to explore ideology and ideas. So I do appreciate

1762
01:28:47,160 --> 01:28:47,760
Speaker 5: you guys for that.

1763
01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:51,439
Speaker 1: All right, y'all, well, thank you so much for tuning

1764
01:28:51,520 --> 01:28:55,400
Speaker 1: in to today's Native Lampod episode. As always, we want

1765
01:28:55,439 --> 01:28:57,320
Speaker 1: to remind all of you to leave us a review

1766
01:28:57,360 --> 01:29:00,719
Speaker 1: and subscribe to Native Lampod. We're available on all podcast

1767
01:29:00,800 --> 01:29:04,080
Speaker 1: platforms and YouTube. If you're looking for more shows like ours,

1768
01:29:04,400 --> 01:29:06,919
Speaker 1: check out the other shows on our Reasent Choice Media networks.

1769
01:29:06,920 --> 01:29:10,280
Speaker 1: Politics with Jamel Hill, Hey j Off the Cup with

1770
01:29:10,439 --> 01:29:13,519
Speaker 1: se Cup and Now you Know with Noah Dibasso. Be

1771
01:29:13,600 --> 01:29:15,360
Speaker 1: sure to give those a follow, and don't forget to

1772
01:29:15,400 --> 01:29:18,360
Speaker 1: follow us too on social media and subscribe to our

1773
01:29:18,479 --> 01:29:22,040
Speaker 1: text or email list on Native landpod dot com. We

1774
01:29:22,200 --> 01:29:26,840
Speaker 1: are Angela Ride, Tiffany Crost, Andrew Gillim and Bacari Sellers.

1775
01:29:27,240 --> 01:29:31,000
Speaker 1: Welcome home, y'allrease order.

1776
01:29:31,120 --> 01:29:34,559
Speaker 2: There are three hundred and fifth way Pacari. There are

1777
01:29:34,600 --> 01:29:35,440
Speaker 2: three hundred.

1778
01:29:35,120 --> 01:29:37,880
Speaker 1: And fifty six days until midsterm elections.

1779
01:29:38,360 --> 01:29:41,439
Speaker 14: Welcome home to the Native Landing on the podcast space

1780
01:29:41,479 --> 01:29:44,360
Speaker 14: tests and for greatness, sixty minutes is so hit, not

1781
01:29:44,439 --> 01:29:47,480
Speaker 14: too long for the grave shit, high level combo politics

1782
01:29:47,479 --> 01:29:50,200
Speaker 14: in a way that you could taste it then digest it.

1783
01:29:50,360 --> 01:29:52,960
Speaker 14: Politics touches you even if you don't touch it.

1784
01:29:53,120 --> 01:29:54,120
Speaker 3: So get invested.

1785
01:29:54,439 --> 01:29:57,160
Speaker 14: Cross the t's and doctor IDs, kill them, got them

1786
01:29:57,160 --> 01:29:59,960
Speaker 14: ass sellers stand on business with Rick. You could have

1787
01:30:00,120 --> 01:30:03,120
Speaker 14: been anywhere, but you truse us. Native Lampot is the

1788
01:30:03,120 --> 01:30:06,000
Speaker 14: brand that you can trust.

1789
01:30:21,960 --> 01:30:25,760
Speaker 1: Native Lampot is a production of iHeartRadio and partnership with

1790
01:30:25,800 --> 01:30:28,599
Speaker 1: Recent Choice Media. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,

1791
01:30:28,680 --> 01:30:32,120
Speaker 1: visit iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to

1792
01:30:32,200 --> 01:30:33,080
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.