Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 2: A production of iHeart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.
Speaker 2: My name is Matt our Powell. Noel is on adventures
Speaker 2: and will be returning shortly.
Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our
Speaker 3: super producer Paul the eclipse decand most importantly, you are here.
Speaker 3: That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. Matt.
Speaker 3: Funny story back when our office was at Pont City Market,
Speaker 3: I was at the little bodega downstairs and I was
Speaker 3: buying a Coca Cola Classic and the cashier at the place,
Speaker 3: really cool guy named Dylan. He said, you know, man,
Speaker 3: at some point in your life, your health will become
Speaker 3: the most important part of your existence. It's really only
Speaker 3: a matter of when it becomes the most important part.
Speaker 2: Ah. But the most important question for that story is
Speaker 2: was it a plastic bottle or a glass bottle?
Speaker 3: Everybody check out our episode of microplastics, also the one
Speaker 3: where we ruin the concept of recycling.
Speaker 2: But it's also one of those. Is the superior product
Speaker 2: I would argue, well, I guess it's changed now a
Speaker 2: little bit.
Speaker 3: The glass bottle though, Yeah, the big one though, right
Speaker 3: right here we go, that's our big salad argument. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, but this sounds like a lot to drop
Speaker 3: on someone when they're buying Minnesota. But in full context,
Speaker 3: you know where we usually make friends with folks wherever
Speaker 3: we go. So Dylan and I knew each other pretty
Speaker 3: well by that point, and he had he had a
Speaker 3: really solid perspective. You know, we know that small lifestyle
Speaker 3: changes can lead to huge results over time. Fewer sugary drinks,
Speaker 3: for example, or just taking a daily walk. At the
Speaker 3: heart of every single piece of advice from a medical professional,
Speaker 3: from a weight loss expert, from a dietitian, nutritionist, what
Speaker 3: have you. At the heart of it, the advice is
Speaker 3: always going to be to create a calorie deficit, to
Speaker 3: use more energy than one consumes, and so exercise, diet,
Speaker 3: these can all play a role in helping you be
Speaker 3: a more healthy person. And not for nothing have these
Speaker 3: all become multi billion dollar industries in Matt Not to
Speaker 3: put us both on the spot, but I think we've
Speaker 3: both been exploring just small changes that can help you
Speaker 3: feel healthier and indeed become healthier.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure. Cutting out most well, I would
Speaker 2: say ninety five percent of sugared drinks changed my life,
Speaker 2: and regular exercise changed my life. And it is what
Speaker 2: you're pointing out here is super important for this episode.
Speaker 2: Anytime I've ever gone to a doctor, a physician that
Speaker 2: I trusted and went in, let's say I had to
Speaker 2: temporarily get prescribed some kind of medicine. At the end
Speaker 2: of that conversation. When I'm being prescribed medicine, it's that
Speaker 2: statement you just said. Also, diet an exercise, you know,
Speaker 2: just like watch what you eat, try and me healthy
Speaker 2: about it, and get regular exercise. But yes, also take
Speaker 2: this medicine from this giant pharmaceutical company because it might
Speaker 2: help you, but you know, you can make yourself healthy
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 3: Also, yeah, I love it because you know, shout out
Speaker 3: to the medical professionals in the crowd that diet and
Speaker 3: exercise sort of that coda that Morris, that speaking point.
Speaker 3: They say it every time because it is so often ignored.
Speaker 3: There is not a silver bullet, magic pill that replaces
Speaker 3: calorie deficit.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, yeah, calorie deficit massive, massive, But also you know,
Speaker 2: nutrient rich food, which is not the easiest thing to get.
Speaker 2: It's not the easiest way. Putting that into your lifestyle
Speaker 2: is not easy. I'm terrible at it. I'm so bad.
Speaker 2: Give me a ham sandwich and some some freaking jalapeno chips.
Speaker 2: Let's go. That's my lunch. All good, almost no nutrients
Speaker 2: in there.
Speaker 3: Well, you get your daily dosa, ham.
Speaker 2: And mayo, probably because that's the way I roll, unfortunately,
Speaker 2: and probably hot sauce. But it's like, it is not
Speaker 2: the easiest thing to do, especially with the way economies
Speaker 2: are set up right now, with the way that's food access,
Speaker 2: right It's just it all factors into today's subject.
Speaker 3: And today's subject is not just the reality of exercise, diet, mortality,
Speaker 3: and health. Specifically, we're looking at another multi billion dollar
Speaker 3: industry at work in the US and indeed around the globe,
Speaker 3: an entire cavalcade of companies, corporations, and at times conspiracies
Speaker 3: built to convince you that a magic pill exists, or
Speaker 3: a magic powder exists. It can cure almost anything that
Speaker 3: ails you. That's right, folks, We said we were coming
Speaker 3: for them, and this is the supplement episode. We were
Speaker 3: talking a little bit off air. This is probably going
Speaker 3: to be a series, depending on how you find it.
Speaker 3: Fellow conspiracy realist, just a quick note swapping before we
Speaker 3: started rolling, we were link ah so much here, but
Speaker 3: here are the facts, Matt. Yeah, supple supplement. What's a supplement?
Speaker 2: Uh, supplement? Well, though, it's usually a pill or a
Speaker 2: powder or a liquid or something that you take on
Speaker 2: a regular basis, usually daily, not always, but usually daily
Speaker 2: that supplements literally, the meaning of that word gives you
Speaker 2: a little extra of some vitamin or mineral or other
Speaker 2: nutrient that you need, according to the manufacturers of this thing,
Speaker 2: and potentially even a doctor or just someone on the
Speaker 2: internet that said, hey, you got to take way more
Speaker 2: zinc pal oh.
Speaker 3: Step you know, Brian.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's literally meant to supplement the food that
Speaker 2: you are already eating.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And of course we are not medical professionals, Paul, Matt
Speaker 3: and myself have never pretended otherwise, which honestly puts us
Speaker 3: a step ahead as some of the folks out there.
Speaker 3: But we know these things that you're describing, Matt, are
Speaker 3: inarguably true. All human beings require a constant pattern of
Speaker 3: ingestion of minerals, vitamins, proteins, amino acid, different sorts of
Speaker 3: bacterial material, bacterial material thing, let's keep it, yeah, drop
Speaker 3: the beat anyway. There are no exceptions to this. The
Speaker 3: body can encounter these substances in any number of ways,
Speaker 3: sunlight or like you said, the food you eat, the
Speaker 3: beverages you consume. Shout out dead pres Let your food
Speaker 3: be your medicine. And there's not a way to I mean,
Speaker 3: people have tried to make a one size fits all
Speaker 3: list of nutritional guidelines, but that is somewhat of a
Speaker 3: fool's errand because human bodies differ so widely, you know,
Speaker 3: medical conditions, genetic legacies, physical activity. There isn't a panacea.
Speaker 3: There is not a thing you can just to be
Speaker 3: very clear, there is not a thing you can take
Speaker 3: that can cure everything, because if there was, we would
Speaker 3: all be taking it right now.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. What we have our generalized ranges basically of
Speaker 2: like a percentage or number of you know, parts per
Speaker 2: million or billion that are in your blood or something
Speaker 2: like that. When you're thinking about minerals or certain vitamins.
Speaker 2: If you've ever gotten blood work done or gone in
Speaker 2: for a physical, you've probably seen this. If you've taken
Speaker 2: a look at the actual documentation you receive where you know,
Speaker 2: if you're if the amount of magnesium in your blood
Speaker 2: is in this pretty huge range, you're probably good, it says,
Speaker 2: I mean, but again it you might need more because
Speaker 2: of a specific thing going on in your body, right,
Speaker 2: or you might need way less because you've you've macro doosed,
Speaker 2: or you know, maximum you've maxed out your whatever vitamin D.
Speaker 2: There we should get into that, we think we will.
Speaker 2: There are a couple of these vitamins and supplements that
Speaker 2: I know I've taken in the past where I've just
Speaker 2: taken a lot because I was super low, but I
Speaker 2: didn't know you can. You can't overdose in the same
Speaker 2: way you can on you know, an narcotic, but you
Speaker 2: can definitely get way too much of certain substances in
Speaker 2: your body that are recommended, like in a multivitamin.
Speaker 3: Or something, and then they may have bad effects. You
Speaker 3: have deletarious consequences. Yeah. And then also you could have
Speaker 3: lifestyle changes that require a whole different sort of ingestion
Speaker 3: or nutrition fingerprint, Like if you are carrying a child,
Speaker 3: then the whole game changes. It's a different playground. There's
Speaker 3: someone else inside you, for a minute, and you know
Speaker 3: what they got different. They got a list of other
Speaker 3: stuff they want. Yeah, they need folic acid stat and
Speaker 3: they need all of it. Yeah, reduce a lot of
Speaker 3: the other stuff come on too. Yes, it's to us
Speaker 3: stuff right, And that's why this may be a series.
Speaker 3: As human medical technology progressed in step with a better
Speaker 3: understanding of biology, various taggheads throughout the history of civilization
Speaker 3: figured out that a lot of people have an ongoing
Speaker 3: lack of certain substances, and sometimes this is regionally dependent,
Speaker 3: like if you live in a part of the world
Speaker 3: where you don't get the same access to sunlight, you
Speaker 3: might have to get one of those nifty little lamps.
Speaker 3: And what they found is that some of this stuff
Speaker 3: can be fixed pretty easily, like if you have an
Speaker 3: iron deficiency, the steps you need to take to make
Speaker 3: up for that deficiency or address it are fairly elementary.
Speaker 3: But you might have some other problems. Like if you
Speaker 3: are listening tonight and you practice a vegan diet, you
Speaker 3: already know what we're going to say as a former
Speaker 3: vegan folks. Vitamin B twelve. Are you even reading about this? Bet?
Speaker 3: I think we talked about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I have some vegan and or plant based
Speaker 2: humans in my life, and that vitamin B twelve is important.
Speaker 2: There's also there are a lot of things actually that
Speaker 2: you need to supplement or probably should supplement if you're
Speaker 2: fully plant based, right. I don't know, it's creepy because
Speaker 2: if you lead that lifestyle, which is you know, popular
Speaker 2: for a reason for you know, ethical reasons for all.
Speaker 2: There's so many reasons to lead that lifestyle, it is
Speaker 2: creepy to think that it may not give you everything
Speaker 2: you need, so you do have to supplement quite a bit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for a time. I mean it becomes pretty controversial, right,
Speaker 3: it verges upon the philosophical issues. Yeah, for a time,
Speaker 3: you know, people were practicing veganism would take vitamin B
Speaker 3: twelve supplements and not know that they were derived from
Speaker 3: animal products, which is also very unethical on the part
Speaker 3: of the people selling that stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, there's ethics. I would say, this whole
Speaker 2: industry is with some strange ethical stuff. Yeah, when it
Speaker 2: comes to things we said right at the top, like
Speaker 2: people who are selling magic pills, right, which isn't the
Speaker 2: case all the time. Very frequently that is not the
Speaker 2: case in companies like massive billion dollar companies that are
Speaker 2: selling supplements. But it's really crazy common in some of
Speaker 2: the more offshoot like startups. Then you know, get out
Speaker 2: there like oh wait, what does elderberry do? Holy mackerel?
Speaker 3: Wow? Yeah, your old you're old. Your old high school
Speaker 3: friend now is in an MLM and they have a
Speaker 3: miracle berry that will totally fix your chakras. Oh you
Speaker 3: know what I mean, Like it'll also make you taller,
Speaker 3: you'll poop blue at school. Whatever, we're making it up.
Speaker 2: See I'm over here talking smack about about Elderberry's, but
Speaker 2: I've got a supplement that my son and I both
Speaker 2: take every morning when he with me, Hey, let's do
Speaker 2: let's just do the elderberries. It's like all right, yeah,
Speaker 2: this is okay.
Speaker 3: So what we're saying here is that the concept of
Speaker 3: dietary supplements, it is so broad, right, it's such a
Speaker 3: it's such an umbrella term. It encompasses so many possible things.
Speaker 3: The only real difference, at least the way Uncle Sam
Speaker 3: reckons it, as we'll see, is the difference between something
Speaker 3: that naturally occurs in the food supply versus a drug.
Speaker 3: So like your daily dose of elderberry is all well
Speaker 3: and good, the FDA looks at that as something entirely
Speaker 3: distinct from say, your daily dose of Riddlin or adderall
Speaker 3: or zoloft or what are these other bottles here? But
Speaker 3: you know, it's kind of like it's kind of like
Speaker 3: saying saying dietary supplement to me is like saying chair.
Speaker 3: We all get what a chair is, but not all
Speaker 3: chairs are the same.
Speaker 2: Oh there are some weird chairs, dude, things that shouldn't
Speaker 2: even really be a chair, but you could sit on it.
Speaker 4: You could get you know what I mean, if you
Speaker 4: have enough confidence there what is not a chair, but
Speaker 4: like a throne for example, that's a chair.
Speaker 3: The electric chair is a chair. One is for kings
Speaker 3: and one is for people being murdered. You'd probably prefer
Speaker 3: one to the other, but they're both chairs, and so
Speaker 3: it is. I would argue with dietary supplements.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which just goes back to kind of the I
Speaker 2: guess the way we kind of define it at the top, right,
Speaker 2: any supplemental vitamin or mineral that comes in either a pill,
Speaker 2: a powder, or a liquid that is not a part
Speaker 2: of the food you ingest when you're you know, partaking
Speaker 2: in a meal or a snack or a whatever, however
Speaker 2: it is you get food into your face.
Speaker 3: Yes, into your food FaceTime. I mean yeah, this is
Speaker 3: also an ancient technique, right. If you go back to
Speaker 3: some of the earliest proven human civilizations, you'll see they
Speaker 3: have these exhaustive list of herbs for very specific things.
Speaker 3: And if you go to you know, ancient cultures like
Speaker 3: in East Asia, right East and Central Asia, you'll see
Speaker 3: there's this huge, very very dense history of herbal medicine
Speaker 3: and it goes back We're talking thousands of years at
Speaker 3: this point, and some of that traditional medicine really does
Speaker 3: have efficacy. There's sand to it. It helps people other
Speaker 3: things like ingesting mercury.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, nobody's going to bat a thousand, okay, least
Speaker 2: for longer than a couple of games. So mercury was
Speaker 2: a bit of a miss. But I love this idea
Speaker 2: because nothing, in my opinion, at least this is my opinion,
Speaker 2: nothing beats experience, nothing beats wisdom. So like been through
Speaker 2: it before, isms, I think are actually are there important
Speaker 2: here because if you've been testing out all the herbs
Speaker 2: that are around you, Let's say a culture that's in
Speaker 2: South America and they're aware of all the things, right,
Speaker 2: all the things that grow, and they've been testing them
Speaker 2: out for hundreds, if not thousands of years. You kind
Speaker 2: of figure out, Okay, well, most of the time, this
Speaker 2: actually works pretty well when somebody's got a stomach ache.
Speaker 2: Most of the time, when someone's in a lot of pain,
Speaker 2: this plant actually pretty great. Just you know, don't take
Speaker 2: too much of it, or don't combine it with this
Speaker 2: other plant, because we've seen see what happens there.
Speaker 3: Which is crazy because Americans are great at moderation. Well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but on the other hand, if you if you say,
Speaker 2: well that doesn't matter, that's not science, science or whatever
Speaker 2: however you want to you know, poo poo that idea.
Speaker 2: You then have to go to, okay, well, what are
Speaker 2: the clinical trials that look at the substance that's inside
Speaker 2: that plant, and how does that affect people versus a
Speaker 2: placebo effect?
Speaker 3: And who funds the trials?
Speaker 2: That's it, man, And is there is there is there
Speaker 2: money to be gained at some point in the chain there?
Speaker 3: Right? I love that you're pointing this out. Yeah. As
Speaker 3: of twenty twenty two, the Council for Responsible Nutrition, which
Speaker 3: is a lobbying trade group for the dietary supplement industry.
Speaker 3: They found that something north of seventy three to seventy
Speaker 3: five percent of Americans use some kind of dietary supplement. Again,
Speaker 3: it's such a broad term. It might be your flintstone vitamin.
Speaker 3: It might be your gummy, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: It might be your magnesium, your niacin, et cetera.
Speaker 2: Well, it might be the garlic you use in a
Speaker 2: specific diet from a specific region. It could be part
Speaker 2: of a Mediterranean diet, which is you know, it's very
Speaker 2: strange how that how it works out, because you can
Speaker 2: find other places that say about third of Americans use
Speaker 2: a supplement, but they're defining it as a specific pill
Speaker 2: or something like.
Speaker 3: That, and the stereotypes aren't true. By the way, a
Speaker 3: lot of us do love garlic anyhow So every year
Speaker 3: in the US alone, people spend about thirty five billion
Speaker 3: dollars a little bit more actually on supplements. And I
Speaker 3: love that you're pointing out the importance of definition there, right,
Speaker 3: because is it a lifestyle choice to say you're gonna
Speaker 3: eat more carrots or you're gonna eat more you know,
Speaker 3: like a potassium rich food like bananas, versus taking a pill, Right,
Speaker 3: it gets complicated. I mean, back in twenty sixteen, estimates
Speaker 3: said the global supplement market will reach two hundred and
Speaker 3: seventy eight point ZHO two billion dollars in the year
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, and surprisingly enough those numbers seem to
Speaker 3: be on track. That was a pretty good prediction.
Speaker 2: Well z that like globally globally yes, yeaheskay, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I could see that, because supplements are not just a
Speaker 2: US thing, man, It's a big deal everywhere you go.
Speaker 2: Some people even go to different countries to buy their
Speaker 2: supplements in bulk and then smuggle them back over to
Speaker 2: another country. Usually it's fine because again we'll talk about it,
Speaker 2: but the FDA sky like, yeah, do what you want
Speaker 2: with you, do what you want with your vitamin A man.
Speaker 3: Shout out create them anyway. Yeah, we might say, We
Speaker 3: might say, surely there are laws governing this stuff. You
Speaker 3: can't sell people false hope, let alone poison and then
Speaker 3: get away with it. The answer is, folks, yeah, there
Speaker 3: are laws, but those laws, it seems, are outnumbered by far.
Speaker 3: They are outnumbered by the conspiracies. Afoot. I suggest we
Speaker 3: take a pause for a word from our sponsor. Find
Speaker 3: some magic pill to align our chakras and segus. Here's
Speaker 3: where it gets crazy, Matt. I love that you point
Speaker 3: this out right from the jump. Yes, some things called
Speaker 3: supplements actually do work. They can help you address problems
Speaker 3: with your.
Speaker 2: Health, depending on what you take them with, how you
Speaker 2: take them, and what else you're eating. Yes, one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: But there are other supplements to say wild stuff about
Speaker 2: how they're going to fix your body in weird ways
Speaker 2: or man using the phrase like preventing cancers or some
Speaker 2: types of cancers, that is like one of the worst
Speaker 2: things because we talked about on the show a lot
Speaker 2: giving people false hope, right and accepting their money. That
Speaker 2: is just it's just it's dirty.
Speaker 3: It's so terrible too. Man like quote unquote preventing cancer.
Speaker 3: It's got of like pursuit of happiness, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean. There's a lot of cya that those folks
Speaker 3: are saying.
Speaker 2: And the mess you'll see is if you look at
Speaker 2: a clinical study, is potentially reduces the occurrence of cancer,
Speaker 2: and then it's by like a really low almost statistical
Speaker 2: lean no you know, doesn't matter number.
Speaker 3: And cancer is another umbrella term. So things that may
Speaker 3: prevent one cancer may may do bubcus for a different
Speaker 3: type of cancer or.
Speaker 2: As is warned by people all over the place like
Speaker 2: Good God, Harvard Health Publishing, and pen Medicine, they talk
Speaker 2: about some supplements can actually feed certain types of cancer,
Speaker 2: so it in all of them will will get even
Speaker 2: deeper into later, but all of them say talk with
Speaker 2: your doctor about specific supplements, especially if you've been diagnosed
Speaker 2: with cancer, if you're like pretty extreme risk of cancer
Speaker 2: from your family or something. Yeah. Uh, Because some supplements
Speaker 2: are just like, hey, oh oh hi cancer, here's some fuel.
Speaker 3: M hm, exactly, yeah, summer gas on the fire. Here's
Speaker 3: a quick and dirty spoiler for differentiating between the actual
Speaker 3: helpful supplements and the stuff that is just meant to
Speaker 3: part you from your money. The actual helpful stuff does
Speaker 3: not make outrageous claims. The things that are just like
Speaker 3: this pill will give you x amount of your daily
Speaker 3: recommended vitamin C intake or whatever. That's not an unreasonable claim.
Speaker 3: The stuff that is like, have you ever wished you
Speaker 3: had a tail or could fly or turn invisible in
Speaker 3: the moonlight. That's not real, man.
Speaker 2: I wish you well, though, that'd be great.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a it was a it was a
Speaker 3: short Initiative bi Centrum. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, I guess one of the biggest things here in
Speaker 2: one of the reasons for this, this concept of knowing
Speaker 2: what's in a substance and knowing that that thing actually works.
Speaker 2: You're matching up so much different sets of research and
Speaker 2: then also trusting that whatever is in that bottle is
Speaker 2: actually what it says it is on that bottle. And
Speaker 2: I don't want to jump too far ahead here, but
Speaker 2: FDA regulations with Food and Drug Administration's regulations with these products,
Speaker 2: they're not the same as if you go to the
Speaker 2: store and you buy a product, like a food product
Speaker 2: that is that has been approved by one of them,
Speaker 2: or even a drug that has been approved by them.
Speaker 2: It's it's not the same. But there are little icons,
Speaker 2: I guess, logos you can find on certain supplements that
Speaker 2: will let you know that a third party has said, yes,
Speaker 2: this is in fact vitamin C.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's very very important because, believe it or not,
Speaker 3: we always joke about how the US government has a
Speaker 3: certain allowable amount of rat poop in cereal. We joke
Speaker 3: about that because it is very true, and that is
Speaker 3: actually better legislation than the stuff that applies to these
Speaker 3: supplements by and large, you know, and we're being very
Speaker 3: careful to say, of course, not all of them are
Speaker 3: a grift, and some of them indeed are improving quality
Speaker 3: of life for people. There was this great there was
Speaker 3: this great Washington Post article from a while back where
Speaker 3: in the journalist Tomorrow Hospital speaks with a bunch of
Speaker 3: people because Tomorrow has a question that's bothering him. It's like, hey,
Speaker 3: if people are spending billions of dollars in the US
Speaker 3: alone every year on so supplements, why does it seem
Speaker 3: like most of them don't really do anything? And so
Speaker 3: he speaks with folks like Carol Haggins and Craig hop
Speaker 3: who are medical professionals working in the organizations that monitor
Speaker 3: this stuff. They're not FDA, but he speaks with Craig
Speaker 3: Hop and Craig is the at the time, the deputy
Speaker 3: director of the National Center for Complementary and Integrative Health
Speaker 3: in CCIH. And Nikki there we go, Oh, Nikki, here's
Speaker 3: so fine. So he says he's talking to his journalist
Speaker 3: and he goes, yeah, there is stuff that works in
Speaker 3: the land of herbal medicine. He says, it's a pretty
Speaker 3: short list. You got ginger for nausea, you got an
Speaker 3: upset stomach, takes some peppermint. You want to disrupt difficult sleep,
Speaker 3: then take melatonin. And he says also fish oil might
Speaker 3: help with cardio vas Skiller disease. But we still don't
Speaker 3: know the full story, because that's how scientists explore the world.
Speaker 2: I took my dog to the vet this morning for
Speaker 2: a thing, and I have previously given her fish oil
Speaker 2: my dog penny for her coat, and it was prescribed
Speaker 2: to her by a veterinary doctor to give like it's
Speaker 2: to help the to put more oils basically on her
Speaker 2: skin because she was having dry skin, and it completely
Speaker 2: works for that with a dog. I've been you know,
Speaker 2: the omega fatty acids and all that stuff. These things
Speaker 2: are really hot and things when I say hot, as
Speaker 2: in like people are excited about them, and they have
Speaker 2: been for decades now. I still don't take fish oil
Speaker 2: or whatever, but that's there is a hole in my
Speaker 2: knowledge here where a doctor has prescribed fish oil for
Speaker 2: my dog and I willingly give it to her because
Speaker 2: a doctor told me to, and I perceive a change.
Speaker 2: But I also have looked it up online and found
Speaker 2: conflicting things about it, which just goes to show like
Speaker 2: and again I'm looking up stuff about fisi oil in humans,
Speaker 2: this doctor is provided prescribing it for a dog. There's
Speaker 2: a vast difference between those two systems and how they
Speaker 2: you know, take nutrients in and function. But I think
Speaker 2: the overall thing it does is confuse US supplements in general.
Speaker 2: Just in the end, after all the research that I've
Speaker 2: done for this episode, that I know you've done for
Speaker 2: this episode, we're sitting here, we're talking about it. Overall,
Speaker 2: I just feel freaking confused, dude.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that is to the benefit of the conspirators
Speaker 3: who are doing this. So there's also you know, we
Speaker 3: mentioned the idea like if we go to the vitamin
Speaker 3: side of this versus the irbal side, right, we look
Speaker 3: into the idea of helping people with what are called
Speaker 3: nutrient gaps. You need the magnesium, you need the vitamin a,
Speaker 3: et cetera. Then you're gonna talk with folks like Carol
Speaker 3: Haggins's scientific and health communications consultant with the Office of
Speaker 3: Dietary Supplements. First off, Also, there are so many there's
Speaker 3: so many US departments and offices that I think most
Speaker 3: of us never contemplate but she points out some of
Speaker 3: the same stuff we were saying earlier. Fullic acid. Yes,
Speaker 3: it is a great help to folks when they are
Speaker 3: carrying a child. Vitamin B twelve is great, not just
Speaker 3: for vegans who do need access to B twelve, but
Speaker 3: also for people over fifty. It just it helps.
Speaker 2: This has two hundred and fifty percent of my daily
Speaker 2: vitamin B twelve. That's a drake I've got in my
Speaker 2: hand right here. That seems like too much.
Speaker 3: And speaking of yeah, glasshouse stuff, I am drinking some
Speaker 3: kind of alkaline water. Oh, it has ionized hydration and
Speaker 3: it has electrolytes added for taste.
Speaker 2: As long as it doesn't have free radicals, because then
Speaker 2: you need antioxidants.
Speaker 3: The name of it is free radical water, Free radical water. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you're right, though, like it's true, we also have to
Speaker 3: to your point about things being complicated. We have to
Speaker 3: note that supplements, typically in developed countries, they're not necessarily
Speaker 3: life savers. Then get you up to normal. They can
Speaker 3: help your quality of life, and indeed have some preventative
Speaker 3: aspects for problems down the road, but they're not gonna
Speaker 3: cure you of prostate cancer or something. There is not
Speaker 3: a pill that people can take that will make them
Speaker 3: able to see if they are blind. And it's extremely
Speaker 3: unclean that that different corporations or flim flam artists would
Speaker 3: try to pretend otherwise. But I was interested to learn, man,
Speaker 3: And you know this, folks. In developing countries where a
Speaker 3: lot of vitamin deficiencies can be much more common, supplements
Speaker 3: can be a real game changer. Like survival food or
Speaker 3: functional food as they call it. What's that really weird?
Speaker 2: One?
Speaker 3: Plumping nut? Which have you heard of? Plumping nut?
Speaker 2: What the heck is that?
Speaker 3: It's like if peanut butter was cocaine. But I'm going
Speaker 3: somewhere with this. Plumping nut is crack or it's like
Speaker 3: if if peanut butter was water. Plumping nut is like gatorade.
Speaker 2: What it says, ready to use therapeutic food.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It can address a lot of
Speaker 3: a lot of nutrition deficits in you know, UH is
Speaker 3: suffering from food insecurity. But it's still a private company
Speaker 3: and they make a lot of money selling plumpy Also
Speaker 3: the name is kind of dumb.
Speaker 2: Yeah. For for the treatment of severe acute malnutrition mmm,
Speaker 2: where it provides treatment at home.
Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: Yeah, whoa this is it's crazy that it's a thing.
Speaker 2: It is chok full of vitamins, minerals, lipids and nutrients.
Speaker 2: Good golly, it's even got nyasin.
Speaker 3: Oh finally, yes, it's got all the stuff. It also
Speaker 3: has a weird apostrophe, which I should stop harping on.
Speaker 3: It's like plumpy apostrophe nut maybe it's maybe it's cooler
Speaker 3: in French. But it's manufactured by a place called nutri Set. Anyway, Yeah,
Speaker 3: these these things happen. We have to point out. This
Speaker 3: is an excellent example of how different requirements may be
Speaker 3: one part of the world versus is another part of
Speaker 3: the globe. Again, there's not really a silver bullet. And
Speaker 3: you know a lot of us in the audience today
Speaker 3: might have our own favorite supplements. You might be taking
Speaker 3: some fish oil or some I don't know, some multi
Speaker 3: vitamins B three complex. Is B three complex a thing?
Speaker 3: I just make that up.
Speaker 2: I don't know B three, I know D three and
Speaker 2: D two.
Speaker 3: Okay, well let's say those instead. And you know, if
Speaker 3: the list of those provably helpful substances is so short,
Speaker 3: then why are there so many things out there in
Speaker 3: the marketplace where there's shelves and shelves and shelves of
Speaker 3: all these powders, pills and drinks. I mean it's like that.
Speaker 2: What's that?
Speaker 3: Was it? Jefferson airplane? One pay makes you a big r,
Speaker 3: one pay makes you small.
Speaker 2: One pill grows your hair long, and another prevents it
Speaker 2: from growing at all.
Speaker 3: And one with tacio dong. Yeah, the idea that you
Speaker 3: could make body parts larger, right, or yeah, address hair,
Speaker 3: mail pattern, baldness or whatever. This is where one would
Speaker 3: imagine the FDA would come into play. And technically is
Speaker 3: the law stuff right, This is where it gets juicy. Technically,
Speaker 3: the FDA says a statement from a supplement needs to
Speaker 3: have substantiation and to be truthful on paper.
Speaker 2: That's awesome. That sounds great, sounds great to me. How
Speaker 2: do you how do you prove it? I guess with
Speaker 2: clinical trials?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that would be the idea, right, I mean, but
Speaker 3: it's weird because there are a lot of clinical trials,
Speaker 3: and time and time again, journalists try to find independent scientists,
Speaker 3: people without industry ties, to confirm whether or not a
Speaker 3: given claim is meaningful, and to date, every time you
Speaker 3: try to find an independent scientist arguing this, you're going
Speaker 3: to run into a brick wall like our palette. The
Speaker 3: Washington Post and many other journalists tried to figure out
Speaker 3: what was going on. And Tomorrow Hospital again said the
Speaker 3: dietary supplements industry, and he spoke with trade groups multiple ones.
Speaker 3: He said they could not point me to a single
Speaker 3: independent scientist who agrees with industry supported studies. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's cricker.
Speaker 2: Supplements in this whole industry entered a really strange phase. Well,
Speaker 2: I mean they've there been in a few but around
Speaker 2: twenty twelve, so when the Mayan calendar decided, you know,
Speaker 2: everything's going to end, supplements were having a real boom time.
Speaker 2: And there were there were several there were several several
Speaker 2: things that a group of Johns Hopkins researchers and other
Speaker 2: very important smart people came through and tried to tried
Speaker 2: to get a grasp on the supplement industry. And in
Speaker 2: twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, my goodness, there are some studies
Speaker 2: that came out and you'll find papers in the NIH
Speaker 2: the National Institutes of Health and there in their published
Speaker 2: documents that are basically filed under Office of Dietary Supplements
Speaker 2: and other places like that, where they come through and
Speaker 2: they said, at least these Johns Hopkins Fellows. In twenty thirteen,
Speaker 2: they came through and said, hey, everybody, stop taking supplements.
Speaker 2: None of it makes sense, none of it does anything
Speaker 2: for you. Stop taking mineral and vitamin supplements. The title
Speaker 2: is literally quote enough is enough, Stop waste money on
Speaker 2: vitamin and mineral supplements. It was published on December seventeenth,
Speaker 2: twenty thirteen, and they just said, no, don't do it anymore,
Speaker 2: and here's our you know, here's our research to back
Speaker 2: it up after looking at all of the studies that
Speaker 2: have come before us. And then almost immediately after that,
Speaker 2: there's a whole other camp of scientists that also have
Speaker 2: PhDs that say, hey, guys, no, you're wrong, You're absolutely wrong.
Speaker 2: The one that was published February thirteenth, twenty fourteen, by
Speaker 2: Thomas Guliams. Guliams it looks like Williams, but with a
Speaker 2: GUI PhD. This was in Integer Med. It's almost like
Speaker 2: an opinion piece, but it's also backed up by research,
Speaker 2: and it is the exact opposite that just says, you
Speaker 2: guys are wrong, you guys are completely wrong to research
Speaker 2: and this whole thing from twenty thirteen is picking up
Speaker 2: so much steam. You guys are completely distorting the way
Speaker 2: America and the rest of the world is viewing supplements.
Speaker 3: Take more.
Speaker 2: Well. But yeah, but again you wonder why we all
Speaker 2: feel so confused. It's because if you've got doctors on
Speaker 2: either side yelling at each other basically, which is what
Speaker 2: I just described, how are we supposed to know? How
Speaker 2: am I supposed to know? With a bachelors from Georgia state? Well,
Speaker 2: if you know, taking vitamins are going to help me.
Speaker 3: Right, especially when one would hope that these these founts
Speaker 3: of authority are unified. Right, If the facts are the facts,
Speaker 3: then people should agree. And that simply seems to not
Speaker 3: be the case. I mean even you know, at this point,
Speaker 3: I think we have to get to one of the
Speaker 3: weird aspects of this in the US, in particular, what
Speaker 3: do you think should we pause for a word from
Speaker 3: our sponsors?
Speaker 2: All right, well, then let's us take an outbreak. We'll
Speaker 2: be right back.
Speaker 3: And we have returned. Shout out to everybody who gets
Speaker 3: their oil straight from the fish. That's what I do.
Speaker 3: I just got some I got an aquarium. Oh I'm
Speaker 3: not even killing the fish man, I just pick them up,
Speaker 3: and I like, yeah, just juice them out a little
Speaker 3: bit and put them back in catch a release.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that is how you should get fish oil.
Speaker 2: If you need fish oil, you consume it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, that part's true, folks. You can't ring fish
Speaker 3: out like a wet towel. Don't do that. It's not
Speaker 3: cool for the fish.
Speaker 2: You just take them olive oil, Like take them out
Speaker 2: of the water, but take them alive oil. Let them
Speaker 2: swim in there.
Speaker 3: For a second, just for it, just like a second.
Speaker 2: Just lick it off. You're good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, nothing weird. We are joking, folks. Please don't try that.
Speaker 3: But there is something that's not a joke, and it's
Speaker 3: ridiculous and danger, which is this. And a lot of
Speaker 3: people don't know this when they walk through their health
Speaker 3: store or their grocery store. If you are a company
Speaker 3: in the United States and you are marketing some kind
Speaker 3: of dietary supplement, you do not have to establish that
Speaker 3: it is safe. You are only required to tell the
Speaker 3: government when something goes wrong.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's an alarm system, right, as a way to
Speaker 2: put it. It's not a preventative measure. It's an alarm system.
Speaker 3: It's a reactive measure, so you could you could come
Speaker 3: out by the way with like you know, Paul, Matt
Speaker 3: and Ben's fancy, how you do on pills? And it
Speaker 3: turns out that they it turns out that they have
Speaker 3: a dangerous health effect, And then the FDA will come
Speaker 3: back later after enough people have died and say, hey, guys,
Speaker 3: how you doing. Pills are bad? And we'll be like,
Speaker 3: what that's crazy, but they're so fancy, but they're so
Speaker 3: how are you doing? But this idea, right, the legislation
Speaker 3: lagging behind is a common problem. And I know we're
Speaker 3: both looking into the very sexily named Dietary Supplement Health
Speaker 3: and Education Act of nineteen ninety four or the DASHA,
Speaker 3: And this is still controversial because it says that the
Speaker 3: FD eight does not have the authority to approve these
Speaker 3: supplements as long as they qualify as something that was
Speaker 3: already in the natural food sources of the country. So like,
Speaker 3: if you are selling vitamin C and vitamin C is
Speaker 3: already in a bunch of citrus products, then go with god, right,
Speaker 3: because that's not a drug. Now, that's just something people
Speaker 3: can eat and ingest.
Speaker 2: In other ways, that's just orange juice. Bruh, orange juice.
Speaker 2: Why are you being fancy? But man, why don't you
Speaker 2: put some calcium in that too? Mm hmmm hmm.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Hey wait uh, this question has nothing to do
Speaker 3: with uh, with our mission tonight, Matt. But uh, do
Speaker 3: you have a strong stance on pulp in juice?
Speaker 2: Yeah? If if I'm going to make a juice, then
Speaker 2: I'm cool with pulp in it. If I'm going to
Speaker 2: order a juice, keep that pulp out of my drink.
Speaker 2: We go.
Speaker 3: I like pulpit a juice because it makes it feel
Speaker 3: more like juice to me. Yeah, real chewy, you know, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I like to chew my beverages. So the that that's
Speaker 3: a slight discoursion, but we do have serious questions here,
Speaker 3: like why does a firm, if if a company is
Speaker 3: required to have substantive, truthful claims about whatever dietary supplement
Speaker 3: they are selling the and why do they not have
Speaker 3: to substantiate this safety of that product before they roll
Speaker 3: it out onto shelves.
Speaker 2: That's a great question, you know.
Speaker 3: And again like we're not we're not read onto the
Speaker 3: emails from the FDA. We're not around in the congressional
Speaker 3: brainstorming sessions. We know that no matter how slick the
Speaker 3: packaging is, how many like warm colors and cool cartoons
Speaker 3: and plant leaves and whatever, all of that stuff doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: And the buzzwords often don't matter either. They're like sound
Speaker 3: and fury. They're signifying nothing. We talked about it a
Speaker 3: while back, you know how tricky different marketing buzzwords can be,
Speaker 3: how they look like actual descriptions of fact, Like all
Speaker 3: natural doesn't mean anything whatsoever.
Speaker 2: Completely not natural. Vitamin D.
Speaker 3: I would like that, Yeah, vitamin C for cyborg.
Speaker 2: This is yeah, man, this is synthetic magnesium. It's real hot,
Speaker 2: right now, get some while it's still around. It's actually
Speaker 2: an FT, but it is true because we treat these things.
Speaker 2: We take these things like drugs, as we're talking about
Speaker 2: in the beginning, Right, it's a pill something you have
Speaker 2: to take as though you would riddle in, or something
Speaker 2: that you were prescribed maybe as a kid. Right, But
Speaker 2: it is. But they're not that at all. But they
Speaker 2: are things that are generally found in foods. But it
Speaker 2: is not a food because you're not eating it.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: It is a weird little gray area that the FDA
Speaker 2: just says, my not my purview, pal well, I got
Speaker 2: enough to deal with.
Speaker 3: Over here, right, call us back when hundreds of people die. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's set the alarm off, right, the call us when
Speaker 3: the alarm goes off. I mean this is another thing too.
Speaker 3: The US is in a somewhat distinct situation because the
Speaker 3: healthcare and dietary regulation of this country is wackadoo. But
Speaker 3: if you die in the US, We've said it before,
Speaker 3: if you die in the United States in recent history,
Speaker 3: the primary cause of that mortality is poverty. You can
Speaker 3: trace it back to a thousand different ways, but it's
Speaker 3: kind of an all roads lead to rome situation. I mean,
Speaker 3: you know, private industries are making millions, billions of dollars
Speaker 3: selling hope to the hopeless, and this poison masquerades is medicine.
Speaker 3: I mean yeah, we can look back on, you know,
Speaker 3: like Chinese emperors ingesting mercury. We can say that's chump
Speaker 3: move stuff. But that is a comforting blindness. The grifters
Speaker 3: are real, they are here, they're actively operating. There are
Speaker 3: tons of substances soul as supplements that can do actual
Speaker 3: harm to people, and one of the most infamous recent
Speaker 3: cases that we're both reading about is a fedra Remember
Speaker 3: e fed Remember how E fedro was everywhere for a while.
Speaker 2: I know, a fedrin. Yeah, I always think about Echinasia.
Speaker 2: That was the thing that I remembered. It was like
Speaker 2: around forever and everybody needed to take it. And then
Speaker 2: for a while, oh wait, no, you don't need to
Speaker 2: take it. It doesn't do anything. And then oh no, it
Speaker 2: does stuff again. But I don't know the fed Tell
Speaker 2: me about that one.
Speaker 3: E fedra was. It's a substance that occurs naturally in
Speaker 3: some plants, and for a while it was marketed as
Speaker 3: an appetite suppressant, an energy booster, and people were taking
Speaker 3: it willy nilly until about one hundred and fifty five
Speaker 3: folks died as a result of ingesting it.
Speaker 2: Whoa, So it was like it was a weight loss
Speaker 2: pill or something like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, like an upper weight loss thing, kind of
Speaker 3: like that jacked up lemonade that was a pin I
Speaker 3: got in trouble for.
Speaker 2: Hey, yeah, well that's just loads of caffeine in a
Speaker 2: you know, dump it into your dump it into your
Speaker 2: giant cup that we provided you with, and then, oh,
Speaker 2: by the way, free refills.
Speaker 3: So E fedra can cause a quickened heartbeat, it can
Speaker 3: cause elevated blood pressure, people can vomit, they can have
Speaker 3: heart palpitations. It's also difficult really to control the dose
Speaker 3: in some ways. And as a result, there was this
Speaker 3: study from the Annals of Internal Medicine that said products
Speaker 3: made with e Fedra were only one percent of herbal
Speaker 3: supplement sales in the United States in like the early
Speaker 3: two thousands, but they were responsible for sixty two percent
Speaker 3: of herb related reports to poison control. So people, yeah,
Speaker 3: people were accis. And these aren't folks, you know, trying
Speaker 3: to get high or something. They're they're taking what they
Speaker 3: feel is a helpful dietary supplement. In two thousand and three,
Speaker 3: the FDA reacted and removed some eheda products from the
Speaker 3: US market, and to this day, it is the only
Speaker 3: dietary supplement to get an outright ban in the entire
Speaker 3: history of dietary supplements. And again, it's not a it's like,
Speaker 3: is it a food, is it a drug? It occurs
Speaker 3: in plants, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, according to.
Speaker 2: I think it's Harvard that you linked to here, Ben's
Speaker 2: they're saying that it was in a specific herb that's
Speaker 2: used in Chinese medicine Mong mahuang yeah hu a n g.
Speaker 2: So it's like a naturally occurring thing. But then I
Speaker 2: guess if you try and you know, break it down
Speaker 2: into a more concentrated form, right, it was having all
Speaker 2: kinds of bad effects. I've never I've never, don't. I
Speaker 2: don't know how I missed this, ben, But I missed this.
Speaker 3: Well, you know a lot of people miss it because
Speaker 3: they're having a tough time buying more of it.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I don't mean miss it. I missed as
Speaker 2: I don't. I didn't know with you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, it does. It does have proven
Speaker 3: efficacy for things like weight loss. But to your earlier point,
Speaker 3: with that can come unintended side effects and consequences. That's
Speaker 3: the reason why drugs that may be prescribed by a
Speaker 3: doctor sometimes come with a secondary prescription to combat the
Speaker 3: side effects of the first drug. And you get caught
Speaker 3: in a feedback loop, you know what I mean. That's
Speaker 3: a maybe that's a story for another evening.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, tell me about this next thing
Speaker 2: you found, man, because this this genuinely freaks me out
Speaker 2: as a person who takes a multi vitamin that I
Speaker 2: guess I trust and you know, take vitamin D and
Speaker 2: a couple other supplements to my diet. This freaks me out.
Speaker 3: Yeah. In twenty eight there was a study published in
Speaker 3: the medical journal JAMA, and this study looked at looked
Speaker 3: at about a decade of data with the FDA, and
Speaker 3: they found that between two thousand and seven and twenty sixteen,
Speaker 3: the FDA identified no less than seven hundred and forty
Speaker 3: six dietary supplements that were adulterated. It weighs the consumer
Speaker 3: probably didn't clock. Like imagine you get a natural herbal
Speaker 3: supplement and later you learn it has not just food
Speaker 3: components to it, but it has drugs in there as well.
Speaker 3: We're talking steroids, erectile dysfunction stuff. And they only recalled
Speaker 3: less They recalled less than half of the messed up
Speaker 3: things they found.
Speaker 2: Wow. I remember some friends early on in college who
Speaker 2: would buy pills from a local gas station that had
Speaker 2: crazy names. I think the ones I remember were yellow Jackets.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, Yellow Jackets, White Crosses, Trucker Speed.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And it was essentially this like a supplement pill
Speaker 2: that you just go up and you buy like it's
Speaker 2: a vitamin, but it totally acted like speed for people.
Speaker 2: They would stay up all night studying and be jittery,
Speaker 2: and I'd what, just go on, do you guys have
Speaker 2: a lot of caffeine or something like? No, man, it's
Speaker 2: yellow jackets. Okay, well I hope everything else is okay.
Speaker 2: Good luck on the.
Speaker 3: Test, exactly exactly. Now you have to start asking yourself, well,
Speaker 3: if we know all of this is true, and we
Speaker 3: do the public does know this, then why do people
Speaker 3: keep buying stuff? The short answer is this, just like
Speaker 3: snake oil from ages past, a lot of these substances,
Speaker 3: they're not gonna help you, but they're not gonna harm you. Yeah,
Speaker 3: they're just blue guy pills. They're placebos by another name.
Speaker 2: Well, and they're expensive. They're not gonna hurt you, but
Speaker 2: dang they're expensive.
Speaker 3: They are going to hurt your wallet.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Often it's a one time per what maybe once
Speaker 2: or twice a year purchase. If you get a giant
Speaker 2: pill of some supplement that you're taking, right, but still
Speaker 2: in the end, you could save that money and, at
Speaker 2: the recommendation of many a PhD that we read for
Speaker 2: this episode, take that money and instead buy what they
Speaker 2: refer to as nutrient rich foods. Right, Yeah, like save
Speaker 2: that money and instead of going cheap on dinner, actually
Speaker 2: go out and you know, get some fruits and vegetables
Speaker 2: that you end up putting together for a meal. And
Speaker 2: I think in the end it, weirdly enough, that's the
Speaker 2: thing that resonates most with me, this idea of overspending
Speaker 2: on something that is probably not going to fully help me,
Speaker 2: when I could be spending money on something that is
Speaker 2: almost definitely going to help me, because your body processes
Speaker 2: food so much easier than it does, you know, super
Speaker 2: condensed pill or a powdered form of whatever mineral you're
Speaker 2: trying to put in your body, if it's naturally occurring
Speaker 2: in that spinach, it's probably going to do your body
Speaker 2: a lot better. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So what we could say is there is unfortunate
Speaker 3: truth to these conspiracies in that not all by any means,
Speaker 3: but many, many unethical purveyors of dietary supplements they're trying
Speaker 3: to cure you of not a medical condition, but what
Speaker 3: they see as a financial condition. You have too much
Speaker 3: money and they want some of it. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't know, man, it's so gross.
Speaker 2: But it's also a matter of belief. It's a matter
Speaker 2: of face in some ways because it does go back
Speaker 2: to older practices, right, It goes back to my family
Speaker 2: swears by this thing that we all take on a daily, weekly,
Speaker 2: whatever basis. Around this time of year, we eat this
Speaker 2: specific food or and we supplement it with this and
Speaker 2: you know it if you believe it. As we've talked
Speaker 2: about before on this show, the placebo effect could work
Speaker 2: in your favor if you've got something like that that's
Speaker 2: deeply ingrained in your belief system, or maybe you're a
Speaker 2: group or families or tribes belief system.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I really appreciate that point because yet the short
Speaker 3: answer to why people keep buying this stuff is because
Speaker 3: it's not harming them. But the deeper and more philosophical
Speaker 3: answer here is that the human mind is kind of
Speaker 3: a drug all its own. It's a drug that does itself.
Speaker 3: That's the best way to think of human consciousness. And
Speaker 3: these supplements of people turn to. They're seen as distinct
Speaker 3: from the pharmaceutical industry, often with good reason, because the
Speaker 3: pharmaceutical industry is its own bag at Badgers. And like
Speaker 3: you said, Matt, the placebo effect is real to a
Speaker 3: certain degree. Your body will do better if your mind
Speaker 3: believes it is doing something to improve the mind and
Speaker 3: the body. It doesn't, obviously, right, good vibes are not
Speaker 3: going to restore your sight, you know, nor regrow limbs,
Speaker 3: or erase cancer, or solve very real problems like dementia.
Speaker 3: But the problem is even with that, the problem is
Speaker 3: that it is much more difficult to fact check things
Speaker 3: now and much more easy to purport to be an authority.
Speaker 3: Back in the days, you know, the medicine and shows,
Speaker 3: we could have just pitched in for a covered wagon
Speaker 3: and we could have sold some bs, and then we
Speaker 3: would have blown down before we got caught, right, and
Speaker 3: then later maybe we could print out some broadsheets, we'd
Speaker 3: get a radio. But now anybody can make a website
Speaker 3: and anybody can kind of say whatever they want.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's one of the huge problems with researching
Speaker 2: this episode. Even if you type the correct search terms,
Speaker 2: specifically for me at least in my findings, into Google,
Speaker 2: you are going to get so many more at the
Speaker 2: very top of that search websites that are wellness health
Speaker 2: oriented that are often tied to a product or a
Speaker 2: you know, a private group that stands to make money
Speaker 2: off of making you believe about a specific supplement or
Speaker 2: a very generalized concept of supplements working in your favor.
Speaker 2: It's one or the other, can be both sometimes, but
Speaker 2: one thing that you can do. I guess let's point
Speaker 2: this out.
Speaker 3: Ben.
Speaker 2: This was written in a WebMD article that was kind
Speaker 2: of a generalized thing about how how should I think
Speaker 2: about supplements and what should I do? They're saying, when
Speaker 2: you start your research, because there is such a muddying
Speaker 2: of the waters that exists on the internet right now, literally,
Speaker 2: and this kind of stinks, y'all, Oh boy, look for
Speaker 2: those NIH PubMed database articles that have been peer reviewed
Speaker 2: that have information about a specific type of supplement, not
Speaker 2: the one, not some specific brand name, but this, you know,
Speaker 2: whatever that substance is. Look for those trials, look for
Speaker 2: the research that's the stuff that's not fun to read,
Speaker 2: but at least see if there's a general positive outlook
Speaker 2: on that substance before you go down a road. And
Speaker 2: they also say definitely talk to a doctor or you know,
Speaker 2: a dietitian that's accredited in some way. Just talk to
Speaker 2: somebody before you start taking a supplement, especially if you've
Speaker 2: got other health issues going on already.
Speaker 3: Right yeah, especially if you have clear and present health issues. Ed,
Speaker 3: we will do something. I don't want to say it's
Speaker 3: sith Lord's stuff, Matt, but just fair is fair, balance
Speaker 3: and moderation all things. If you are an unethical evil
Speaker 3: entity and you're wondering, hey, how can I get it
Speaker 3: on ripping off people, Well there's a second step you
Speaker 3: can take that'll be more successful and indeed kind of
Speaker 3: safer for everybody involved. Don't pretend to treat a real problem.
Speaker 3: Invent a fake problem and then say you're treating that.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Like halatosis?
Speaker 2: Oh dude, do the old fin lip? I got that? Man?
Speaker 2: I wonder they got something for that.
Speaker 3: I've just oh, I'm saying with great affection, I've just
Speaker 3: imagining some fake doctor who is like, well, uh, mister Frederick,
Speaker 3: good news, bad news? Okay, which do went first?
Speaker 2: Oh? I guess the bad news.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm gonna give it to you straight. You've got
Speaker 3: a got something we call uh TLS in lip syndrome.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, you know, I had I felt like I
Speaker 2: feel like maybe I did, but I wasn't sure what.
Speaker 2: What's the good news?
Speaker 3: Oh? Uh, The good news is that the good news
Speaker 3: is that this visit is non refundable and you have
Speaker 3: paid in advance. Oh, it's it's good news for me.
Speaker 3: It's good news for me. It's good news for me
Speaker 3: as a doctor. I also have uh several pills that
Speaker 3: could help address TLS. But you know, let's get past
Speaker 3: all this, all this mumbo jumbo about uh about uh
Speaker 3: big pharma. You know, mister Frederick, you strike me as
Speaker 3: more of a grounded person, right, you're you're you're more
Speaker 3: into natural medicine, correct.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like you know, micro nutrients. I'm down with
Speaker 2: you know, phido chemicals. Do you have any of those?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Would you say you are pro biotic?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Okay, great? Great in that case that I get to
Speaker 3: write you a prescription here for the local spirit Halloween.
Speaker 3: Try out these try out these wax lips. Uh okay,
Speaker 3: and see, jeez, this.
Speaker 2: Is wonderful because again, it feels like that often and
Speaker 2: and there's a possibility that you could be treated that way.
Speaker 2: Probably not right. Generally, if you're going to see a doctor,
Speaker 2: they're gonna try and hook you up and help you out.
Speaker 2: But we in another episode, unrelated to all the ones
Speaker 2: we mentioned so far, we've talked about the lobbying side
Speaker 2: of the pharmaceutical industry and how it functions in like
Speaker 2: singular doctor's offices, and how you get drug reps that
Speaker 2: show up. 're like, gag, we really need you to
Speaker 2: push these bills. How you doing. Here's some lunch?
Speaker 3: Yeah, perfect, you're right, You're absolutely right. And also in
Speaker 3: that off the rail scene we were exploring together that
Speaker 3: guy who is talking to mister Frederick not a doctor.
Speaker 3: He got his white coat at spirit Halloween.
Speaker 2: Oh man, I know it.
Speaker 3: Hopefully a doctor would not try to griff someone. But
Speaker 3: you are right. The pharmaceutical lobbies do you have a
Speaker 3: far reach? And despite the laws they're meant to protect
Speaker 3: the patients to some degree, there are a lot of loopholes,
Speaker 3: right like is it is it a bribe or is
Speaker 3: it just a gift?
Speaker 2: Who knows? It's both? Always maybe, I don't know. We've
Speaker 2: been we didn't even talk about the old new tropics and.
Speaker 3: The we didn't talk about new tropics.
Speaker 2: Adaptogens and all the lions main and different mushrooms I'm
Speaker 2: supposed to take now, including what's the crazy one, uh,
Speaker 2: the the fungus that eats through ants brains and makes
Speaker 2: them go to the cordyceps cordyceps. I'm supposed to take
Speaker 2: courtyceps now according to the Internet. No, thank you Internet.
Speaker 3: We also we also, in the spirit of full disclosure, folks,
Speaker 3: we as I think we've been pretty clear, we also
Speaker 3: in our personal lives, do take dietary supplements, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh I do. I do. We've been sponsored. Honestly, several times,
Speaker 2: we've been sponsored by dietary supplement companies that we look
Speaker 2: into and we feel comfortable with. It's not often that
Speaker 2: they come our way, right, which is a weird thing.
Speaker 3: We have noticed some things, and I think that was
Speaker 3: the right move.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean, listen to other podcasts. There's there
Speaker 2: are some new tropics going on and podcasts not to
Speaker 2: name names, won't name names. There's also adaptogens all day
Speaker 2: long and what they do, and I don't know, that's
Speaker 2: a whole other episode. Maybe.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Part two of Supplements will be new tropics because,
Speaker 3: as you know, Matt, I take I have experimented widely
Speaker 3: with new tropics and psychedelics. Oh.
Speaker 2: I've tried some stuff too.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I guess what, I don't feel smarter, but maybe that's
Speaker 2: just me.
Speaker 3: I think maybe the fact that we are not feeling
Speaker 3: smarter means that we are indeed learning something right. Maybe
Speaker 3: try to keep it positive. Like you know, people in
Speaker 3: general tend to either really like living or be really
Speaker 3: terrified of dying. So it shouldn't be a surprise. Right
Speaker 3: from the days of ancient empires all the way to
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, the Eclipse and beyond, there is going
Speaker 3: to be some group of people trying to leverage that desire,
Speaker 3: leverage that fear for profit. And yeah, a lot of
Speaker 3: this stuff doesn't seem to harm you necessarily. But we
Speaker 3: also you know what else we didn't talk about, Matt.
Speaker 3: We didn't talk about multi level marketing for supplements. We
Speaker 3: didn't talk about all the lawsuits that are coming that
Speaker 3: have pat what has passed, is passing and has yet
Speaker 3: to come. I don't know, man, It's like the shadow
Speaker 3: of patent medicine never really left because the money got
Speaker 3: too good.
Speaker 2: Well, it means we're talking.
Speaker 3: We both we both just threw our hands up.
Speaker 2: Folks. They tell you billions of dollars and people are
Speaker 2: still buying. I mean, it's it's capitalism, man.
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm putting that on the on the episode list
Speaker 3: as well. So we got new tropics yeah, capitalism, and.
Speaker 2: This is too much to handle on Eclipse day, y'all.
Speaker 2: It's it. It's eclipse Day. We pushed recording back by
Speaker 2: thirty minutes so we could finish the eclipse, you know,
Speaker 2: become lunatics before we got in here. I feel like
Speaker 2: I'm having It's affecting me. I feel like it.
Speaker 3: I love it. Do you think it's the Placebo effect?
Speaker 2: I don't know, dude. It's an Operation solar Ward and
Speaker 2: there we go. I don't know. Somewhere's going on.
Speaker 3: What a nice place Bowman. No okay, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: like first Open, but Placebo.
Speaker 2: Oh, which is getting great reviews.
Speaker 3: By the way, Yes, thank you for sending that. Thank
Speaker 3: you for city that. Do check out. Do check out
Speaker 3: the first Open, folks. As always, the best part of
Speaker 3: this show is you. Thank you for tuning in. Matt,
Speaker 3: Paul Nol and I will be returning, I think, with
Speaker 3: a couple of extra episodes following through the conspiracy surrounding
Speaker 3: the supplement industry. In the meantime, we need your help.
Speaker 3: Tell us what's on your mind, tell us your first
Speaker 3: hand experience, stuff that works, stuff that doesn't. What other
Speaker 3: tangent should we explore. We're all over Instagram, we're all
Speaker 3: over YouTube, we're all over social media. We also have
Speaker 3: a phone number and you cad you can call us.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, you can call one eight three three std WYTK.
Speaker 2: That's our number. It's a three minute voicemail system that
Speaker 2: means you have three minutes say whatever you'd like. Just
Speaker 2: got to fit in there or else it's going to
Speaker 2: cut you off. So you know you're going to feel
Speaker 2: the pressure as it's going on. But it's great. Say
Speaker 2: whatever you want. Just give yourself a cool nickname and
Speaker 2: let us know if we can use your name and
Speaker 2: message on the air. Oh, Ben, we didn't. This is
Speaker 2: the little easter egg for anybody that got here. Yeah
Speaker 2: I didn't mention the US pharmacopeia, which is something oh
Speaker 2: we talked.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: It's something I'd never heard of before. But this is
Speaker 2: a nonprofit organization, quote authority that sets standards for all
Speaker 2: kinds of supplements. Makes They're the ones that like, does
Speaker 2: the thing you assume the FDA might do, right, but
Speaker 2: they're a nonprofit that just exists and does stuff, and
Speaker 2: they will often if you're looking for supplements, they will
Speaker 2: often put a little stamp of approval basically on things
Speaker 2: that they've actually taken a look at, which is a
Speaker 2: good thing to know if you're out there looking for
Speaker 2: something to add to your diet.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're also global too, right. They do a lot
Speaker 3: of work with USAID and so what.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah huge, it's just I never heard of that,
Speaker 2: and it's worth your time to again do some research
Speaker 2: before you pick anything up from the grocery store or whatever,
Speaker 2: because it gets complicated.
Speaker 3: It gets so complicated.
Speaker 2: Tell us about the complications you've run into by either
Speaker 2: calling us or by sending us a good old fashioned email.
Speaker 3: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production
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